From LPovinelli at aol.com Fri May 1 01:16:05 2009 From: LPovinelli at aol.com (LPovinelli at aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:16:05 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] We invite you to join us at a Memorial Service Honoring the life of Paul Kay Message-ID: We invite you to join us at a Memorial Service Honoring the life of Paul Edward Kay Sunday, May 17, 2009 at three o'clock in the afternoon Temple Adas Israel 2850 Quebec Street, Northwest Washington, D.C. 20008 Elizabeth Kay Goldstein & Lawrence Povinelli RSVP by Friday, May 8, 2009 (703) 969-6476 or via email at _lpovinelli at aol.com_ (mailto:lpovinelli at aol.com) **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double click.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs) From dandrews at visi.com Tue May 5 03:05:58 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 22:05:58 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Call for Help, legal cases about blind parenting in divorce In-Reply-To: <00ad01c9cd1d$b8482010$640aa8c0@Debbie> References: <00ad01c9cd1d$b8482010$640aa8c0@Debbie> Message-ID: I am forwarding this to several lists, where it might get a good response -- including California lists, and the Blind Law list. At 08:06 PM 5/4/2009, Deborah Kent Stein wrote: >Diane Starin from the NFB of California is trying to help a blind >mother who is in a custody battle as part of a divorce case. The >woman's husband is claiming that she can't parent their child >because she is blind. Diane needs to gather information about any >previous legal cases, especially in California, where blindness has >been an issue in a custody battle. If you have been personally >involved in such a case, or if you can direct Diane to anyone who >may be of assistance, please write to her off list at >dstarin at societyfortheblind.org > >Thank you very much. These cases are terribly painful whenever they >occur, and we really need to support one another! > >Debbie From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Tue May 5 18:16:42 2009 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 11:16:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] JAWS and Internet Explorer Message-ID: <862555.47972.qm@web90305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I realize this isn't a legal post or a job post; however, I didn't know how many of the JAWS users out there were aware that Internet Explorer 8 only works with Jaws 10.0. For those of you who are still using IE 7 and an earlier version of JAWS, you are probably finding that you can not open your yahoo e-mail and read them. In fact, JAWS 10 has an upgrade that can be downloaded so that IE8 can be utilized to use gmail and yahoo e-mail (i.e., to open a message.)   If any of you out there are computer savvy, I was wondering if it was the MSAA mode of earlie JAWS versions that don't quite sync up with IE8 and allow the opening of yahoo e-mails anymore. I ask because I tried a little experiment yesterday. If you turn off JAWS and run the voice for a screen magnifier (I have no idea if it came with JAWS or Openbook--most likely JAWS), you can open a yahoo e-mail and forward it to hotmail let's say for example. Even so, you can't read the message in yahoo and thus need to turn JAWS back on and go to the other e-mail account to read it. The magnifier reader reads links but that's it. I apologize if this starting to sound a little rambling; but, I wanted to get the word out. Perhaps NFB or someone should contact yahoo and let them know the problem they have caused to those who use versions of JAWS that precede 10.0 and Internet Explorer that precede 8.0. Let's face it: upgrades are nice (and granted there are some new features in the new Jaws that are more convenient); but, why should we have to upgrade each time they upgrade?   Just food for thought.    Mike From darlene.olsen at gmail.com Tue May 5 19:51:31 2009 From: darlene.olsen at gmail.com (Darlene Olsen) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 12:51:31 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] JAWS and Internet Explorer References: <862555.47972.qm@web90305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you for the information. I am a future law student and depend on the JAWS screen reader. I have a gmail account but thought a second account would be in order. I really appreciate your informing us of the situation mentioned. Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Gilmore" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:16 AM Subject: [blindlaw] JAWS and Internet Explorer I realize this isn't a legal post or a job post; however, I didn't know how many of the JAWS users out there were aware that Internet Explorer 8 only works with Jaws 10.0. For those of you who are still using IE 7 and an earlier version of JAWS, you are probably finding that you can not open your yahoo e-mail and read them. In fact, JAWS 10 has an upgrade that can be downloaded so that IE8 can be utilized to use gmail and yahoo e-mail (i.e., to open a message.) If any of you out there are computer savvy, I was wondering if it was the MSAA mode of earlie JAWS versions that don't quite sync up with IE8 and allow the opening of yahoo e-mails anymore. I ask because I tried a little experiment yesterday. If you turn off JAWS and run the voice for a screen magnifier (I have no idea if it came with JAWS or Openbook--most likely JAWS), you can open a yahoo e-mail and forward it to hotmail let's say for example. Even so, you can't read the message in yahoo and thus need to turn JAWS back on and go to the other e-mail account to read it. The magnifier reader reads links but that's it. I apologize if this starting to sound a little rambling; but, I wanted to get the word out. Perhaps NFB or someone should contact yahoo and let them know the problem they have caused to those who use versions of JAWS that precede 10.0 and Internet Explorer that precede 8.0. Let's face it: upgrades are nice (and granted there are some new features in the new Jaws that are more convenient); but, why should we have to upgrade each time they upgrade? Just food for thought. Mike _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/darlene.olsen%40gmail.com From JWilson at nfb.org Tue May 5 21:08:57 2009 From: JWilson at nfb.org (Wilson, Joanne) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 16:08:57 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Pre-registration for National Convention Message-ID: Attention Conventioneers: The early bird gets more than the worm when pre-registering for the national convention! Registering in advance will help you avoid never-ending lines, will give you more time to get involved in action-packed convention activities, and will save you some cash. Visit by May 31 to complete the easy registration process. Hope to see you in Detroit... but not in the registration lines! Joanne Wilson From stiehm.law at juno.com Wed May 6 19:46:51 2009 From: stiehm.law at juno.com (Patrick H. Stiehm) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 15:46:51 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Using discovery from other countries? Message-ID: <20090506.154651.3392.7.stiehm.law@juno.com> There is not enough information here to answer this question. There are so many factors that would enter into getting the evidence in that this question just does not address. To even begin to answer the question you would need to know what the evidence is, the exact nature of the "discovery" in the foreign court and the rules of evidence in effect in the court where the matter is being heard in the United States. Maybe, with the answers to those questions and any others that they give rise to, one would have a beginning point from which to do the research with respect to getting the evidence. Patrick H. Stiehm Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, VA 22309 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) I hope this is helpful. On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:01:15 -0300 "E.J. Zufelt" writes: > Good evening, > > Not being a lawyer and having never taken a course in evidence, > please > forgive any ignorance in the following question. > > Based on a hypothetical situation, would a U.S. court be generally > > willing to accept evidence that was obtained through the process of > > discovery in a legal proceeding in another country? > > Thanks, > Everett > > Follow me on Twitter > http://twitter.com/ezufelt > > View my LinkedIn Profile > http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju no.com > > ____________________________________________________________ Get the best Criminal Lawyer. Click Here http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTOVoImggsX9BeMpE0aShXE0WF724uN3zZPWgKXXJYNkeq4IUbIa8g/ From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed May 6 20:34:07 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 15:34:07 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Case Western Reserve University students will use textbooks on Kindle electronic reader, Plain Dealer, May 6, 2009 Message-ID: Blindlaw listers: We recently had a discussion on this list about the Kindle. The below article highlights the use that blind law students could potentially make of the device if the materials on it were allowed to be accessed via audio. Noel Link: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/05/case_western_reserve_universit_4.html Text: Case Western Reserve University students will use textbooks on Kindle electronic reader Posted by Janet Okoben/Plain Dealer Reporter May 06, 2009 Case Western Reserve University students will be among the first in the nation to use textbooks on the new Kindle electronic reader next fall, using a large-screen version of the device to be unveiled today in New York. Students in the chemistry, computer science and freshman seminar classes using the handheld Kindle next fall at CWRU will be asked to compare their experience to that of classmates using traditional paper textbooks, Lev Gonick, the university's chief information officer, said in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday. CWRU is one of six universities nationally picked to test the equipment, according to the report. Amazon, the company that produces Kindle, has worked out a deal with publishers to load textbooks onto the devices, which will be supplied to students, Gonick told the newspaper. Contacted by The Plain Dealer on Tuesday, Gonick would not comment. Amazon did not release advance information about the new device, but the blogosphere was rampant Tuesday with reports that it will have a larger screen than the current models. The Wall Street Journal also reported that the new Kindle will have a more fully functional Web browser. The ability to link to an Internet site from text, as a way of learning more about a word or phrase, is one of the features that has attracted interest in Kindle. Books and periodicals are downloaded directly onto the device for a fee. But will the device be as useful for textbooks, which often aren't read from start to finish in the way a reader would work through a novel? Students flip back and forth through chapters, highlighting sections and bookmarking others. To be useful to students, Kindle textbooks also must be able to accommodate that, said CWRU students interviewed on Tuesday. While CWRU President Barbara Snyder prepared to appear on stage in New York with Amazon Chief Executive Jeffrey Bezos today, students on campus were cramming for finals using the tools of the trade for college students these days: Laptops, iPhones and, usually, paper textbooks. "You don't know how useful something is until you try it," said Yugarshi Mondal, a senior chemistry and economics major from Chicago, comparing the prospect of a Kindle to his iPhone, which has applications he has come to rely on. Libby Lehman, a freshman chemical engineering major from Navarre, Ohio, said she's kind of partial to paper. Sitting at the Arabica coffeehouse on campus, with her Mac laptop front and center as she studied for her last final exam of the year, Lehman said she likes to flip through the pages of her textbooks. A physics class Lehman took recently offered notes online, but also offered those notes printed and bound for $15 at the campus bookstore. Lehman bought the printed notes. "Cost-wise, it would be nice" to download more course materials, but Lehman said Kindle or any other product has to be easy to use. "It would depend a lot on the format," she said. Mustafa Ascha, a sophomore economics and philosophy major from Gates Mills, perked up immediately when he heard about the Kindle plan on Tuesday. Ascha, who was working on a small Eee PC laptop at a cafe in CWRU's Thwing Center, said he doesn't bring his 15-inch laptop with him to classes because it's too big, but he wouldn't be deterred by the idea of toting a Kindle. The key, he said, will be the ease of use, because students don't want to have to learn how to use the device. "Students want to open a book and go to a page," he said. "If you have to do any more than that, students won't use it." From my5thattempt at yahoo.com Wed May 6 20:57:27 2009 From: my5thattempt at yahoo.com (M BG) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 13:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] Target settlement Message-ID: <931972.6076.qm@web36708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Has anyone received any word or payments regarding the Target settlement yet? From JFreeh at nfb.org Thu May 7 01:33:44 2009 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 20:33:44 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] National Federation of the Blind Comments on Release of Large-screen Kindle Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org National Federation of the Blind Comments on Release of Large-screen Kindle Urges Accessibility of New E-book Reader for Students Baltimore, Maryland (May 6, 2009): The National Federation of the Blind, the nation's oldest and largest organization of blind Americans, commented today on the release by Amazon, Inc. of a new version of its Kindle electronic reading device. The new Kindle has a larger screen than previous versions and is being marketed by Amazon as a potential platform for the display of textbooks for college and graduate students. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "We are appalled that Amazon is releasing a new Kindle device ostensibly for the use of students that does not contain features that make it accessible to the blind. While this new device has the ability to read text aloud, its controls and user interface are not accessible to blind people; therefore, blind students will not have access to electronic textbooks available for the device. If the controls on the Kindle are made accessible to the blind, however, blind students will have equal access to textbooks at the same time as their sighted peers for the first time in history. We therefore urge Amazon to introduce a user interface for the Kindle that is accessible to the blind as soon as possible. Until such an accessible interface is introduced by Amazon, no college or university should deploy this device for use by its students, since doing so will place blind students at an unfair disadvantage compared to their sighted peers and will violate state and federal laws requiring equal access to textbooks and course materials for students with disabilities." ### From JLazarus at nfb.org Thu May 7 19:52:35 2009 From: JLazarus at nfb.org (Lazarus, Jerry) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 14:52:35 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Notice to Affiliates, Divisions, Committees, and Groups Message-ID: From: Jerry Lazarus, Exhibit Coordinator, 2009 NFB National Convention Attention: Affiliates, Divisions, Committees, and Groups: Please be aware that space in the Exhibit Hall can still be obtained through May 29. If you are an Affiliate President, or head of a division, committee, or group, and wish to have a table in the exhibit hall, please obtain an exhibitor application from our Web site, or this link exhibitor application. Fill in the pertinent information and send the completed form to Exhibit Coordinator, National Federation of the Blind, 1800 Johnson Street, Baltimore, Maryland 21230. Or, it can be e-mailed to Jerry Lazarus: jlazarus at nfb.org. Other documents available from our Web site include the Exhibitor Fact Sheet and Guidelines providing details on hall setup, operating hours, teardown, and related information. Should you have additional questions, please contact Jerry at 410-659-9314, extension 2297, or by e-mail at jlazarus at nfb.org. Jerry L. Lazarus Director of Special Projects Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 1800 Johnson Street Baltimore, Maryland 21230-4998 (410) 659-9314, Ext. 2297 Fax: (410) 659-5129 http://www.nfb.org jlazarus at nfb.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Listserv notice to NFB Exhibitors- May 2009.doc Type: application/msword Size: 27648 bytes Desc: not available URL: From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Thu May 7 20:33:43 2009 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 13:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] question for Alabama probate attorney Message-ID: <574976.6286.qm@web90305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> How common is it for the executor of a will to be reimbursed for costs such as phone calls and the like? From mikefry79 at gmail.com Thu May 7 23:22:12 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 16:22:12 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] question for Alabama probate attorney In-Reply-To: <574976.6286.qm@web90305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <574976.6286.qm@web90305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0905071622k666021d9hf5daba5655515e03@mail.gmail.com> It depends on whether the executor is also a beneficiary. If the executor is not a beneficiary, then the executor should get reimbursed for expenses and be paid a fee. If the executor is also a beneficiary then, though it will be tougher, they should still get reimbursed for expenses. I'm not an expert on the subject. This is just my opinion. Mike On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Mike Gilmore wrote: > How common is it for the executor of a will to be reimbursed for costs such > as phone calls and the like? > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From donnabutterfly50 at gmail.com Fri May 8 00:37:49 2009 From: donnabutterfly50 at gmail.com (Donna Posont) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 19:37:49 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Need for national convention door prizes Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Posont Subject: national convention door prizes National convention will soon be upon us. If you or your chapter, division, or state organization would be so kind as to donate a door prize it would be greatly appreciated. If you would like to mail anything ahead you may send it to Donna Posont 15429 Prospect St. Dearborn, Mi 48126 or call 313-220-8140. You may bring door prizes to convention and feel free to take them to the Michigan suite. Remember, cash is always a delightful prize and it is easy to carry to Detroit and easy to carry home or use while a convention. Thanks for your kindness, Donna Posont From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Fri May 8 04:41:55 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 21:41:55 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] question for Alabama probate attorney In-Reply-To: <8c58e54a0905071622k666021d9hf5daba5655515e03@mail.gmail.com> References: <574976.6286.qm@web90305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8c58e54a0905071622k666021d9hf5daba5655515e03@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Usually the executor is entitled to reasonable expenses in administering an estate in most states. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Fry" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question for Alabama probate attorney > It depends on whether the executor is also a beneficiary. If the executor > is not a beneficiary, then the executor should get reimbursed for expenses > and be paid a fee. If the executor is also a beneficiary then, though it > will be tougher, they should still get reimbursed for expenses. I'm not > an > expert on the subject. This is just my opinion. > > Mike > > On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Mike Gilmore > wrote: > >> How common is it for the executor of a will to be reimbursed for costs >> such >> as phone calls and the like? >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From KBowman at nfb.org Fri May 8 16:50:55 2009 From: KBowman at nfb.org (Bowman, Kristi) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 11:50:55 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Make A Promise - Change A Life With A Dollar Message-ID: This message is from Joanne Wilson on behalf of the Imagination Fund. Dave Hello All: NFB has relied on the generosity of our communities for as long as I can remember. The donations that we receive are integral to the work that we accomplish. It is because of this relevant truth that I am asking for your support. Since its inception in 2004, the Imagination Fund has given out well over a million dollars to support local and national outreach efforts. The money you have worked hard to raise has most definitely been used well! There are many plans for what we would like our future to look like and for how we can continue to build a future of opportunity and change what it means to be blind for younger generations. The simple reality is that in order to accomplish our goals, we must be able to pay for our programs. YOU CAN HELP! We have created a mini March for Independence campaign that offers the ability for you and the members in your chapters and affiliates to get special incentives when you participate. How the campaign works is outlined below. I urge you to READ the information below and then to REGISTER for the mini-March campaign. If you haven't raised any money yet, this campaign may be perfect for you (read below and you'll see why). Thank you very much for considering this campaign and being a part of a brighter future for all blind people. Joanne Wilson How it works: When you JOIN the Every Member, Every Friend Match Campaign you PROMISE to support the campaign with a PROMISE of a dollar a day or $30 per month for the next four months paid in flexible (options everyone can afford) automatic monthly installments deducted from your checking account or billed to your credit card. Then: YOU get just ONE OTHER PERSON to MATCH your PROMISE with the same flexible, personalized, automatic payment schedule. You get: When you make a promise and get ONE match, we'll throw in a March for Independence t-shirt! More matches will get additional March incentives! Many of us have not yet started fundraising for the March for Independence! NOW IS THE TIME! DON'T DELAY! JOIN THE CAMPAIGN NOW! I'd like MORE INFORMATION Unsubscribe from receiving email, or change your email preferences. From chatter8712 at gmail.com Fri May 8 17:05:17 2009 From: chatter8712 at gmail.com (Shane D) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 13:05:17 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Make A Promise - Change A Life With A Dollar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7556b95a0905081005r18b779a8n2f4b627c75acd25e@mail.gmail.com> On 5/8/09, Bowman, Kristi wrote: > This message is from Joanne Wilson on behalf of the Imagination Fund. > > Dave > > > Hello All: > > NFB has relied on the generosity of our communities for as long as I > can remember. The donations that we receive are integral to the work > that we accomplish. It is because of this relevant truth that I am > asking for your support. > > Since its inception in 2004, the Imagination Fund has given out well > over a million dollars to support local and national outreach > efforts. The money you have worked hard to raise has most definitely > been used well! There are many plans for what we would like our > future to look like and for how we can continue to build a future of > opportunity and change what it means to be blind for younger generations. > > The simple reality is that in order to accomplish our goals, we must > be able to pay for our programs. > > YOU CAN HELP! > > We have created a mini > March > for Independence campaign that offers the ability for you and the > members in your chapters and affiliates to get special incentives > when you participate. How the campaign works is outlined below. > > I urge you to READ the information below and then to > REGISTER > for the mini-March campaign. If you haven't raised any money yet, > this campaign may be perfect for you (read below and you'll see why). > > Thank you very much for considering this campaign and being a part of > a brighter future for all blind people. > > Joanne Wilson > > > > > > > > > > How it works: > > When you JOIN the Every Member, Every Friend Match Campaign > you PROMISE to support the campaign with a PROMISE of > a dollar a day or $30 per month for the next four months paid in > flexible (options everyone can afford) automatic monthly installments > deducted from your checking account or billed to your credit card. > > > Then: > > > YOU get just ONE OTHER PERSON to MATCH your PROMISE with the same > flexible, personalized, automatic payment schedule. > > You get: > > When you make a promise and get ONE match, we'll throw in a > March for Independence t-shirt! > > More matches will get additional March incentives! > > Many of us have not yet started fundraising for the March for Independence! > > NOW IS THE TIME! > > DON'T DELAY! > > JOIN > THE CAMPAIGN NOW! > > > > I'd > like MORE INFORMATION > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe > from receiving email, or change your email preferences. > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmail.com > -- -Shane Website: http://www.blind-geek.com AIM: inhaddict MSN: shane at blind-geek.com Skype: chatter8712 Twitter: blind_geek From qmsingleton at comcast.net Sun May 10 23:38:29 2009 From: qmsingleton at comcast.net (Quintina M. Singleton) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 18:38:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Knfb Reader on Thruoureyes with Joe Ruffalo Message-ID: Please tune in to the next "Thruoureyes with Joe Ruffalo" internet radio program scheduled for Wednesday, May 13 at 8:00 PM EST. Mr. Ruffalo along with co-host Jerry Moreno will be speaking with successful salesman and sales manager, Michael Hingson, all about the KnfbReader Mobile. It's many features, the National sales program of the National Federation of the Blind, the newly assigned dealers as well as opportunities for others to become dealers, pricing and availability of the Reader, and much more will be discussed during this informative program. To listen via the web, visit www.thruoureyes.org or via telephone dial (201) 793 9022 pass code 2400484# Anyone interested in asking a question during the program may do so by calling 1 888 572 0141 To find out what shows are scheduled during the current month and / or to listen to both Current and Archived podcasts, just go to www.thruoureyes.org/jaws.html Save the Date: On Wednesday June 3, the happenings of Newsline will be the focus of Mr. Ruffalo's program. Details coming soon. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon May 11 17:12:41 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 12:12:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: 3D News & Notes Message-ID: ________________________________ From: CMPDL's Disability Discussion Docket (3D) [mailto:CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG] On Behalf Of Phelan, William Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 5:34 AM To: CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG Subject: 3D News & Notes Hello members of 3D, In order to both update and educate, every now and then I will send out information regarding the Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law and the Disability Discussion Docket (3D): * Only 5 days left to submit a scholarship application for the Second ABA National Conference on the Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities. Knowing we are tough economic times, the Commission will select several deserving lawyers or law students with disabilities to receive free lodging and registration for the Conference! (http://new.abanet.org/calendar/2nd-National-Conference-on-Employment-of-Lawyers-with-Disabilities/Pages/ScholarshipInformation.aspx) * The Commission has recently redesigned its website! The new look has a more streamlined feel. E-mail Bill at phelanw at staff.abanet.org with your thoughts and comments. (http://www.abanet.org/disability) * Know a lawyer with a disability who deserves applause? Suggest him or her to be given the ABA Lawyer Spotlight. We are currently seeking nominations for the Lawyer Spotlight. (http://www.abanet.org/disability/spotlight/suggest.shtml) * Each month a selection from the Mental and Physical Disability Law Digest will be available for free on the Commission's website! (http://www.abanet.org/disability). This month's selection is on community based care. If you want to see a specific topic featured in June, send your suggestion to the Commission. (http://www.abanet.org/disability/publications/lawdigest/suggest.shtml) * Don't forget to register for the Second ABA National Conference on the Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities. (http://new.abanet.org/calendar/2nd-National-Conference-on-Employment-of-Lawyers-with-Disabilities/Pages/default.aspx) * 3D Posting Reminders * Be sure to sign your full name to each post. * When replying, be sure to use the "reply all" function. When you use the "reply" function, it will only go to 3D, and not 3D along with the original sender. If your reply does not go out to the entire list, we want to make sure that the person you are replying to gets your message. Hitting "reply all" makes sure this happens. Best, Bill Phelan 3D Moderator William J. Phelan, IV, Esq. Special Projects and Technology Coordinator Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law American Bar Association 740 15th Street, NW, 9th Floor Washington, DC 20005-1022 T: 202.662.1576 F: 202.442.3439 phelanw at staff.abanet.org www.abanet.org/disability --------- [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/3Dlogo.jpg] Disability Discussion Docket (3D) ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law http://www.abanet.org/disability --------- To leave this list at any time, please send a message to listserv at mail.abanet.org. In the body of the message type "sign off cmpdl-3d." If you have any questions about 3D or the CMPDL in general, please contact William Phelan at phelanw at staff.abanet.org. From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Mon May 11 21:38:05 2009 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 14:38:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] alimony in Alabama Message-ID: <544510.76205.qm@web90302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In the state of Alabama, is there any certain amount of time for two people to be married before they can petition for alimony? A friend of mine has a daughter-in-law who was told by an attorney that she and her husband hadn't been married long enough in order for her to ask for alimony. (They'll be married five years in August.) I told my friend that I have no knowledge whether any state has restrictions on the ability to receive alimony.   Mike From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue May 12 01:25:05 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 18:25:05 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] alimony in Alabama In-Reply-To: <544510.76205.qm@web90302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <544510.76205.qm@web90302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Most of all of the state codes and statutes can be found on www.findlaw.com. This web site while not having case annotations does have access to the codes and general information regarding the actual text of statutes is available there. With changes in the family court laws in most states this information is most likely accurate as courts generally are shying a way from awarding alimony payments for a long period of time. There are factors that determine whether it will be awarded and the terms based on the specific circumstances of the parties, I.e. length of marriage, income of parties, employment skills and level of employment of each party, etc. In cases where it is awarded it is done for a short period of time to allow the party receiving alimony to use the period in question to become self-sufficient or develop skills. This is a general overview as I tend to avoid doing much in the arena of family law. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Gilmore" To: Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 2:38 PM Subject: [blindlaw] alimony in Alabama In the state of Alabama, is there any certain amount of time for two people to be married before they can petition for alimony? A friend of mine has a daughter-in-law who was told by an attorney that she and her husband hadn't been married long enough in order for her to ask for alimony. (They'll be married five years in August.) I told my friend that I have no knowledge whether any state has restrictions on the ability to receive alimony. Mike _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed May 13 15:23:54 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 10:23:54 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Updated Air Carrier Access Act Regulations - An Overview of the ACAA Now Available Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: DBTAC - Southwest ADA Center at ILRU [mailto:ilru at ilru.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:53 PM To: ilru at ilru.org Subject: Updated Air Carrier Access Act Regulations - An Overview of the ACAA Now Available The Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA) regulations have been updated to incorporate new requirements. They will become enforceable May 13, 2009. To help you understand your rights under the updated ACAA, the National Network of ADA Centers announces the release of "An Overview of the ACAA." Key changes include: * Coverage extended to foreign carriers; * New requirements for airport and aircraft accessibility and changes in airport services including reservations, facilities, in-flight and aircraft acquisitions; * New requirements for passengers who use respiratory assistive devices including 48 - hour notification of use in advance of flight; * New guidelines on provision of effective communication for passengers who are deaf or hard-of hearing; * New requirements for passengers traveling with emotional support animals or psychiatric service animals to provide documentation and give 48-hours' notice before flight. Call your regional ADA Center at 1-800-949-4232 for questions on the ACAA, the Americans with Disabilities Act and other disability-related laws. Visit the Disability Law Index to review the full set of ACAA regulations as updated. If you would like to unsubscribe to the ILRU email list, please respond to this email with 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. ILRU sends out messages about our Webcasts, publications and other resources pertaining to the independent living field, home and community based services, disability law resources, health and wellness issues, and other important disability news. ILRU does not share its e-mail announcement list with other individuals or organizations. We do not use auto retrieval systems to get your e-mail, buy e-mail lists or participate in SPAMMING. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed May 13 15:26:48 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 10:26:48 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: NCD Announces Funding (Research) Opportunity with correct email address. Message-ID: ________________________________ From: National Council on Disability News List [mailto:NCD-NEWS-L at LISTSERV.ACCESS.GPO.GOV] On Behalf Of Mark Quigley Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 6:28 AM To: NCD-NEWS-L at LISTSERV.ACCESS.GPO.GOV Subject: NCD Announces Funding (Research) Opportunity with correct email address. Please disregard the first transmission of this announcement. Joan Durocher's email address was incorrect and is now corrected. Thank you for your patience. NCD Announces Funding (Research) Opportunity On May 13, NCD announced a Notice of Funding Opportunity (NCD-09-02) for a cooperative agreement to study "The Accessibility of U.S.-funded Overseas Facilities and Programs." NCD is interested in examining and understanding the responsibilities of U.S.-funded overseas facilities and programs, both public and private. NCD is seeking applicants to research and develop an NCD report with the following three components: 1) An analysis/examination of international law, to determine how U.S.-funded international development organizations will be required to comply with Article 32 of the Convention in those countries which have ratified the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities; and 2) an empirical follow-up to NCD's 2003 report on how USAID is implementing its own disability policy overseas and its impact thus far, along with its compliance with Sections 501, 503, and 504 of the Rehabilitation Act in its overseas operations. The report should review whether these protections against discrimination are being implemented by government employees and contractors working abroad, and will examine whether U.S.-funded programs are being operated in a manner that is accessible to and inclusive of people with disabilities; and 3) evaluate progress on NCD's recommendations regarding the accessibility of U.S. embassies and missions, as well as Department of Defense (DoD)-funded programs and facilities. The deadline for received full proposals is 5:00 p.m. EDT on July 1, 2009. For additional information, please contact Joan Durocher at 202-272-2117 or jdurocher at ncd.gov. Mark S. Quigley Director of External Affairs National Council on Disability From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed May 13 18:50:38 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:50:38 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] General Attorney (Civil Rights for U.S. Dept. of Education in New York Message-ID: ______________________________________________ From: Johnson, B.Sue Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:42 AM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: General Attorney (Civil Rights), OCR-R2- 2009-03 Link: http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/getjob.asp?JobID=80850052&AVSDM=2009%2D05%2D07+00%3A03%3A00&Logo=0&q=OCR-R2-2009-03&FedEmp=N&sort=rv&vw=d&brd=3876&ss=0&FedPub=Y&SUBMIT1.x=0&SUBMIT1.y=0 Text: General Attorney (Civil Rights) SALARY RANGE: 75,986.00 - 98,777.00 USD per year OPEN PERIOD: Thursday, May 07, 2009 to Friday, May 22, 2009 SERIES & GRADE: GS-0905-12/12 POSITION INFORMATION: Full-Time Permanent PROMOTION POTENTIAL: 13 DUTY LOCATIONS: vacancy(s) in one of the following locations: 1 vacancy - New York City, NY WHO MAY BE CONSIDERED: Applications will be accepted from United States citizens. JOB SUMMARY: The U.S. Department of Education (ED), Office for Civil Rights, Region II, New York, is looking for the best and brightest to ensure equal access to education and to promote educational excellence throughout the nation. If you are a highly-motivated individual who would like to work for an agency that focuses national attention on key educational issues and prohibits discrimination and ensures equal access to education, ED OCR is the place for you. The mission of the Office for Civil Rights is to ensure equal access to education and to promote educational excellence throughout the nation through vigorous enforcement of civil rights. You will have responsibility for participating on a civil rights compliance & enforcement team that supports the mission of the Department of Education and the Office for Civil Rights' (OCR) Strategic Plan. OCR ensures compliance with Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act (Section 9525 of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965, as amended by the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001) and the Age Discrimination Act of 1975, and their implementing regulations in school districts, colleges and universities through complaint investigations and compliance reviews. Additional Duty Location Info: 1 vacancy - New York City, NY MAJOR DUTIES: The attorney provides legal and policy advice to the Site Director and the New York office components regarding the processing of complaints and compliance reviews, including investigations, negotiations, acceptance, and monitoring of corrective action plans. Participates in the investigatory process and conducts investigations through the evaluation of complaints and the gathering and analyzing of information needed to assess regulatory compliance. Conducts legal research/analysis of state and federal statutes, regulations and guidelines, and engages in research to resolve legal and policy issues when there are no clear precedents or where there are conflicting state and federal requirements. Prepares legal opinions including analysis of facts and evidence, resolution of factual and legal issues, and makes recommendations on jurisdictional questions. Prepares investigative plans and reports, letters of findings, and participates in the development of negotiation strategies and legal representation in negotiations with public and private educational institutions, state agencies and their legal representatives. QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED: Applicants must meet all qualifications as of the closing date of the announcement. Basic Requirements: You must be a graduate from a law school accredited by the American Bar Association. Proof of admission to the Bar of the highest court of a state, territory, the District of Columbia, or the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico; and current membership in such Bar as would permit the practice of law. You must be a member in good standing of a state, territory of the United States, District of Columbia, or Commonwealth of Puerto Rico bar. PROOF MUST BE SUBMITTED WITH APPLICATION. Professional Legal Experience Requirement: Applicants must have the years of professional legal experience as shown below. For appointment at the GS-12 level, the following qualification requirements are needed: One year of professional legal experience. You must have one year of specialized experience at a level close to the work of this job that has given you the particular knowledge, skills, and abilities required to successfully perform. Typically we would find this experience in work within this field or a field that is closely related. This experience must be equivalent to that of the duties of a GS-11 Attorney in Federal service. The one year of professional experience may be substituted as follows: Advanced educational attainments which clearly indicate the ability to independently perform complex legal work. The educational background should include course work beyond the first professional degree within this field or a field that is closely related; or A second professional law degree (LL.M) which requires one full year of graduate study; or The first professional law degree (LL.B. or J.D.), provided the applicant's record shows superior law student work or activities as demonstrated by one of the following: Academic standing in the upper third of the law school graduating class; or Work or achievement of significance on law school's official law review; or Special high-level honors for academic excellence in law school, such as election to the Order of the Coif; or Winning of a moot court competition or membership on the moot court team which represents the law school in the competition with other law schools; or Full-time or continuous participation in a legal aid program as opposed to one-time, intermittent, or casual participation; or Significant summer law clerk experience (law clerk work which entailed legal research, brief writing, or negotiating in areas relevant to the work described in the description of duties for this vacancy); or Other equivalent evidence of clearly superior achievement. Specialized Education: You must be a graduate from a law school accredited by the American Bar Association and be a member in good standing of a state, territory of the United States, District of Columbia, or Commonwealth of Puerto Rico bar. You must be a U.S. citizen to qualify for this position. You will need to successfully complete a background security investigation before you can be appointed into this position. You will be required to do some travel. HOW YOU WILL BE EVALUATED: You will be evaluated to determine if you meet the minimum qualifications required; and on the extent to which your application shows that you possess the knowledge, skills, and abilities associated with this position as defined below. When describing your knowledge, skills, and abilities, please be sure to give examples and explain how often you used these skills, the complexity of the knowledge you possessed, the level of the people you interacted with, the sensitivity of the issues you handled, etc. Knowledge of generally accepted legal writing techniques, including proper format and structure of various legal documents and ability to conduct legal analysis in a thorough and complete manner. Ability to produce written work in a clear, concise, persuasive and technically correct manner. Ability to communicate orally in a clear, concise, persuasive and technically correct manner. Knowledge of constitutional law and civil rights law; knowledge of and experience with investigative techniques. Ability to perform legal tasks within stringent time frames to meet program objectives. BENEFITS: You may participate in the Federal Employees Health Benefits program, with costs shared with your employer. More info: http://www.usajobs.gov/jobextrainfo.asp#FEHB. Life insurance coverage is provided. More info: http://www.usajobs.gov/jobextrainfo.asp#life Long-Term Care Insurance is offered and carries into your retirement. More info: http://www.usajobs.gov/jobextrainfo.asp#ltci New employees are automatically covered by the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS). If you are transferring from another agency and covered by CSRS, you may continue in this program. More info: http://www.usajobs.gov/jobextrainfo.asp#retr You will earn annual vacation leave. More info: http://www.usajobs.gov/jobextrainfo.asp#VACA You will earn sick leave. More info: http://www.usajobs.gov/jobextrainfo.asp#SKLV You will be paid for federal holidays that fall within your regularly scheduled tour of duty. More info: http://www.usajobs.gov/jobextrainfo.asp#HOLI Alternative work schedule options are available. If you use public transportation, part of your transportation costs may be subsidized. Our human resources office can provide additional information on how this program is run. You can use Health Care Flexible Spending Accounts for expenses that are tax-deductible, but not reimbursed by any other source, including out-of-pocket expenses and non-covered benefits under their FEHB plans. More Info: http://www.usajobs.gov/jobextrainfo.asp#FSA OTHER INFORMATION: This job is being filled by an alternative hiring process and is not in the competitive civil service. When promotion potential is shown, the agency is not making a commitment and is not obligated to provide future promotions to you if you are selected. Future promotions will be dependent on your ability to perform the duties at a higher level, the continuing need for an employee assigned to the higher level, and administrative approval. You must submit all required information by the closing date. If materials are not received, your application will be evaluated solely on the information available and you may not receive full consideration or may not be considered eligible. The materials you send with your application will not be returned. You will be required to serve a probationary period of 1 year. HOW TO APPLY: You must submit your application so that it will be received by the closing date of the announcement. SUBMIT APPLICATION AND ALL REQUIRED DOCUMENTS TO: Department of Education, Office for Civil Rights, ATTENTION: Timothy Blanchard, Vacancy Announcement #: OCR-R2-2009-03, 32 Old Slip Road, 26th Floor, New York, NY 10005. Although we do not require a specific format, certain information is required to determine if you are qualified. To receive full consideration, you MUST SUBMIT the following information: 1) You may apply for this position with a resume, Form OF-612 (Optional Application for Federal Employment), SF-171 (Application for Federal Employment), or other application format of your choice. Please identify the vacancy announcement number, including your current address, and business/home phone numbers and e-mail address (if available). If you had at least one year of full-time professional experience, i.e. legal experience gained after your law degree was conferred, give a full description of the nature, extent and complexity of work performed. Also describe any special educational qualifications such as a second law degree or evidence of superior law student work or activities; AND 2) You must submit a legal writing sample; 3) Submit a narrative response to each knowledge, skill or ability listed (See Section ' How you will be Evaluated'). Your response should describe what you did, how often you performed this activity, the guidelines available, the complexity of the assignment, and who you performed the activity for or with. 4) You must submit a photocopy of current membership in such BAR as would permit the practice of law. Membership must be in good standing; AND 5) If you are an individual who wishes recognition of their Veteran's status, please submit form DD-214, Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty. Be sure work experiences listed on your application includes: job titles, duties and accomplishments, employer's name, specify full-time or part-time (list # of hours per week if part-time), beginning/ending employment dates (month & year) and annual salary. If you are a current or former federal employee with reinstatement eligibility, you must submit a copy of your last Notification of Personnel Action (SF50) showing your position, title, series, grade and eligibility. Application mailed using government postage or through an internal federal government mail system will not be considered. AGENCY CONTACT INFO: Top Timothy Blanchard Phone: 646-428-3800 Email: Timothy.Blanchard at ed.gov Or write: Department Of Education/Office for Civil Rights 32 Old Slip Road 26th Floor New York, NY 10005 US WHAT TO EXPECT NEXT: Once your complete application is received we will conduct an evaluation of your qualifications and determine your ranking. The most highly qualified candidates will be referred to the hiring manager for further consideration and possible interview. We expect to make a selection as promptly as possible after the closing date of this announcement. You will be notified if you are selected for an interview. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed May 13 18:53:09 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:53:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 8:15 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice ________________________________ From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 11:10 AM To: Maurer, Patricia; nijc at aol.com; nlove at opd.state.md.us; nmcconnell at jackscamp.com; noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu; president at abaw.org; president at adc.org; president at apabala.org; president at blackwomenlawyersla.org; president at dominicanbarassociation.org; president at msba.org; president at phillybarristers.org; president at sabasc.org; president at southasianbar.org; rbreiter at law.miami.edu Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA MAY 11, 2009 09-EDCA-05A Applications should be postmarked no later than Friday, May 15, 2009. Date posted: 05-11-2009 * EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEY, GS-12 THROUGH GS-15 CIVIL DIVISION, TORTS BRANCH, AVIATION & ADMIRALITY SECTION WASHINGTON, DC Applications must be postmarked by no later than May 15, 2009 (applications submitted by e-mail must be received by that date). Date posted: 05-08-2009 * TRIAL ATTORNEYS/GS-12 TO GS-15 CIVIL DIVISION, OFFICE OF CONSUMER LITIGATION WASHINGTON, DC Application materials must be submitted no later than June 5, 2009. Application materials submitted via e-mail must be received by the deadline. Date posted: 05-08-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-14 to GS-15 Applicants should send a resume and cover letter as soon as possible, but not later than May 31, 2009. Date posted: 05-06-2009 * TRIAL ATTORNEYS, GS-12 THROUGH GS-15 CIVIL DIVISION, FEDERAL PROGRAMS BRANCH WASHINGTON, DC These positions are open until filled. Date posted: 05-06-2009 * TRIAL ATTORNEYS, GS-12 THROUGH GS-15 CIVIL DIVISION, FEDERAL PROGRAMS BRANCH WASHINGTON, DC These positions are open until filled. Date posted: 05-06-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-14 to GS-15 Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. Date posted: 05-05-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-14 to GS-15 Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. Date posted: 05-05-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA 09-EDVA-01 Positions are open until filled, but resumes must be received by May 18, 2009. Date posted: 05-05-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE - SAN DIEGO, CA. TRIAL ATTORNEY Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of May 26, 2009 and will be accepted up to five calendar days after the closing date. Date posted: 05-01-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE UNITED STATES ATTORNEY EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA Position is open until filled. Date posted: 05-01-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY/GS-13 to GS-15 This position will be open until May 18, 2009. Date posted: 05-01-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY/GS-13 to GS-15 This position will be open until May 13, 2009. Date posted: 05-01-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA 09-AZ-05 Applications must be recieved by May 13, 2009. Date posted: 04-29-2009 * ATTORNEY ADVISOR EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW FALLS CHURCH, VA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-09-0057 All applications MUST be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on May 20, 2009. Date posted: 04-29-2009 The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From habnkid at aol.com Thu May 14 18:55:30 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:55:30 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Message-ID: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> Hello, I'm planning to take the LSAT sometime in the next year and am wondering what kind of accommodations are usually offered to blind students. I am a braille reader, so I would want a braille copy of the exam. I would also like access to a CCTV so I could draw diagrams for some of the problems. How much extra time would I be offered? thanks, Haben From angie.matney at gmail.com Thu May 14 21:21:00 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:21:00 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> Message-ID: <4a0c8b39.85c2f10a.196c.6b09@mx.google.com> Hello Haben, You could likely receive the amount of extra time that is consistent with what you have received in the past. Some people routinely use double time; others routinely use time and a half. I believe that if you have documentation supporting the amount of time you typically use, LSAC will provide that accommodation. They will not give you unlimited time. Good luck. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Haben Girma Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:55 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Hello, I'm planning to take the LSAT sometime in the next year and am wondering what kind of accommodations are usually offered to blind students. I am a braille reader, so I would want a braille copy of the exam. I would also like access to a CCTV so I could draw diagrams for some of the problems. How much extra time would I be offered? thanks, Haben _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Thu May 14 21:39:37 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:39:37 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> Message-ID: <20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> Haben, Braille test and double time seem to be the requests most often talked about here. Some ask for time and a half, since that's typical in the university setting, but most who do wish they'd requested double. Given the very high stakes nature of the LSAT and that I don't think more time will make a person more analytical or logical, this seems reasonable to me. Joseph On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:55:30AM -0700, Haben Girma wrote: > Hello, I'm planning to take the LSAT sometime in the next year and am > wondering what kind of accommodations are usually offered to blind > students. I am a braille reader, so I would want a braille copy of the > exam. I would also like access to a CCTV so I could draw diagrams for > some of the problems. How much extra time would I be offered? > > thanks, > Haben > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From habnkid at aol.com Thu May 14 21:47:05 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:47:05 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> <20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> Would the document showing my final score tell law schools that I used accommodations, and would it specify the exact accommodations? Thanks Joseph and Angie for your answers! Haben T. Joseph Carter wrote: > Haben, > > Braille test and double time seem to be the requests most often talked > about here. Some ask for time and a half, since that's typical in the > university setting, but most who do wish they'd requested double. > Given the very high stakes nature of the LSAT and that I don't think > more time will make a person more analytical or logical, this seems > reasonable to me. > > Joseph > > > On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:55:30AM -0700, Haben Girma wrote: >> Hello, I'm planning to take the LSAT sometime in the next year and >> am wondering what kind of accommodations are usually offered to >> blind students. I am a braille reader, so I would want a braille >> copy of the exam. I would also like access to a CCTV so I could draw >> diagrams for some of the problems. How much extra time would I be >> offered? >> >> thanks, >> Haben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From benkarpilow at gmail.com Thu May 14 23:46:43 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 16:46:43 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com><20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> Message-ID: <33024732595F4FA99ACEF2006E024574@bentar802wznlv> Haben, You had mentioned use of a CCTV as an accomodation. Depending on your level of usable vision, you might consider bringing a portable dry erase board to the test center. I did this and I found it most useful. I also use a CCTV on occasion but find that for certain tasks, a dry erase board is more useful. You can pick them up at most office supply stores. And no, as far as I know, the fact of your accomodations is not disclosed to the law schools to which you'll apply, though the LSAC keeps a record which you will need when you apply for accomodations for the bar exam. Good luck! Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > Would the document showing my final score tell law schools that I used > accommodations, and would it specify the exact accommodations? > > Thanks Joseph and Angie for your answers! > > Haben > > T. Joseph Carter wrote: >> Haben, >> >> Braille test and double time seem to be the requests most often talked >> about here. Some ask for time and a half, since that's typical in the >> university setting, but most who do wish they'd requested double. Given >> the very high stakes nature of the LSAT and that I don't think more time >> will make a person more analytical or logical, this seems reasonable to >> me. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:55:30AM -0700, Haben Girma wrote: >>> Hello, I'm planning to take the LSAT sometime in the next year and am >>> wondering what kind of accommodations are usually offered to blind >>> students. I am a braille reader, so I would want a braille copy of the >>> exam. I would also like access to a CCTV so I could draw diagrams for >>> some of the problems. How much extra time would I be offered? >>> >>> thanks, >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From habnkid at aol.com Fri May 15 01:42:24 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 18:42:24 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <33024732595F4FA99ACEF2006E024574@bentar802wznlv> References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com><20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> <33024732595F4FA99ACEF2006E024574@bentar802wznlv> Message-ID: <4A0CC880.7040801@aol.com> Thanks Ben, I haven't used one of those in a long time. I"ll buy one in the next few weeks and try drawing some diagrams with it. Haben Ben Karpilow wrote: > Haben, > > You had mentioned use of a CCTV as an accomodation. Depending on your > level of usable vision, you might consider bringing a portable dry > erase board to the test center. I did this and I found it most useful. > I also use a CCTV on occasion but find that for certain tasks, a dry > erase board is more useful. You can pick them up at most office supply > stores. And no, as far as I know, the fact of your accomodations is > not disclosed to the law schools to which you'll apply, though the > LSAC keeps a record which you will need when you apply for > accomodations for the bar exam. Good luck! > > Ben > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:47 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > >> >> Would the document showing my final score tell law schools that I >> used accommodations, and would it specify the exact accommodations? >> >> Thanks Joseph and Angie for your answers! >> >> Haben >> >> T. Joseph Carter wrote: >>> Haben, >>> >>> Braille test and double time seem to be the requests most often >>> talked about here. Some ask for time and a half, since that's >>> typical in the university setting, but most who do wish they'd >>> requested double. Given the very high stakes nature of the LSAT and >>> that I don't think more time will make a person more analytical or >>> logical, this seems reasonable to me. >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> >>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:55:30AM -0700, Haben Girma wrote: >>>> Hello, I'm planning to take the LSAT sometime in the next year and >>>> am wondering what kind of accommodations are usually offered to >>>> blind students. I am a braille reader, so I would want a braille >>>> copy of the exam. I would also like access to a CCTV so I could >>>> draw diagrams for some of the problems. How much extra time would I >>>> be offered? >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> Haben >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From angie.matney at gmail.com Fri May 15 02:06:34 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 22:06:34 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <33024732595F4FA99ACEF2006E024574@bentar802wznlv> References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com><20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> <33024732595F4FA99ACEF2006E024574@bentar802wznlv> Message-ID: <4a0cce27.47c2f10a.54c2.ffffa5ce@mx.google.com> Hi, I *believe* (though others can correct me if I'm wrong) that if you use extended time, LSAC does disclose to your law schools that you took the test under nonstandard conditions. I don't know if this applies to other accommodations, such as alternate formats. This was certainly the case when I applied to law schools in the fall of 2005. This information should be accessible (with some digging) at www.lsac.org. Or, at least, it was when I was applying to law schools. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ben Karpilow Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:47 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Haben, You had mentioned use of a CCTV as an accomodation. Depending on your level of usable vision, you might consider bringing a portable dry erase board to the test center. I did this and I found it most useful. I also use a CCTV on occasion but find that for certain tasks, a dry erase board is more useful. You can pick them up at most office supply stores. And no, as far as I know, the fact of your accomodations is not disclosed to the law schools to which you'll apply, though the LSAC keeps a record which you will need when you apply for accomodations for the bar exam. Good luck! Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > Would the document showing my final score tell law schools that I used > accommodations, and would it specify the exact accommodations? > > Thanks Joseph and Angie for your answers! > > Haben > > T. Joseph Carter wrote: >> Haben, >> >> Braille test and double time seem to be the requests most often talked >> about here. Some ask for time and a half, since that's typical in the >> university setting, but most who do wish they'd requested double. Given >> the very high stakes nature of the LSAT and that I don't think more time >> will make a person more analytical or logical, this seems reasonable to >> me. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:55:30AM -0700, Haben Girma wrote: >>> Hello, I'm planning to take the LSAT sometime in the next year and am >>> wondering what kind of accommodations are usually offered to blind >>> students. I am a braille reader, so I would want a braille copy of the >>> exam. I would also like access to a CCTV so I could draw diagrams for >>> some of the problems. How much extra time would I be offered? >>> >>> thanks, >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From bspiry at comcast.net Fri May 15 02:19:23 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 19:19:23 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <4a0cce27.47c2f10a.54c2.ffffa5ce@mx.google.com> References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com><20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> <33024732595F4FA99ACEF2006E024574@bentar802wznlv> <4a0cce27.47c2f10a.54c2.ffffa5ce@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000d01c9d503$90d2c4c0$b2784e40$@net> Yes, true. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:07 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Hi, I *believe* (though others can correct me if I'm wrong) that if you use extended time, LSAC does disclose to your law schools that you took the test under nonstandard conditions. I don't know if this applies to other accommodations, such as alternate formats. This was certainly the case when I applied to law schools in the fall of 2005. This information should be accessible (with some digging) at www.lsac.org. Or, at least, it was when I was applying to law schools. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ben Karpilow Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:47 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Haben, You had mentioned use of a CCTV as an accomodation. Depending on your level of usable vision, you might consider bringing a portable dry erase board to the test center. I did this and I found it most useful. I also use a CCTV on occasion but find that for certain tasks, a dry erase board is more useful. You can pick them up at most office supply stores. And no, as far as I know, the fact of your accomodations is not disclosed to the law schools to which you'll apply, though the LSAC keeps a record which you will need when you apply for accomodations for the bar exam. Good luck! Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > Would the document showing my final score tell law schools that I used > accommodations, and would it specify the exact accommodations? > > Thanks Joseph and Angie for your answers! > > Haben > > T. Joseph Carter wrote: >> Haben, >> >> Braille test and double time seem to be the requests most often talked >> about here. Some ask for time and a half, since that's typical in the >> university setting, but most who do wish they'd requested double. Given >> the very high stakes nature of the LSAT and that I don't think more time >> will make a person more analytical or logical, this seems reasonable to >> me. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:55:30AM -0700, Haben Girma wrote: >>> Hello, I'm planning to take the LSAT sometime in the next year and am >>> wondering what kind of accommodations are usually offered to blind >>> students. I am a braille reader, so I would want a braille copy of the >>> exam. I would also like access to a CCTV so I could draw diagrams for >>> some of the problems. How much extra time would I be offered? >>> >>> thanks, >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From benkarpilow at gmail.com Fri May 15 03:26:28 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 20:26:28 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com><20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com><33024732595F4FA99ACEF2006E024574@bentar802wznlv> <4A0CC880.7040801@aol.com> Message-ID: Another way you might use a dry erase board is to list your multiple choice options and use it as a visual to eliminate options you know are wrong. I actually marked mine with A B C D in permanent ink so I wouldn't have to worry about erasing that part after each question. Thanks also to Angie and Bill for clearing up the issue of whether LSAC makes the fact of accomodations known to law schools. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > Thanks Ben, I haven't used one of those in a long time. I"ll buy one in > the next few weeks and try drawing some diagrams with it. > > Haben > > Ben Karpilow wrote: >> Haben, >> >> You had mentioned use of a CCTV as an accomodation. Depending on your >> level of usable vision, you might consider bringing a portable dry erase >> board to the test center. I did this and I found it most useful. I also >> use a CCTV on occasion but find that for certain tasks, a dry erase board >> is more useful. You can pick them up at most office supply stores. And >> no, as far as I know, the fact of your accomodations is not disclosed to >> the law schools to which you'll apply, though the LSAC keeps a record >> which you will need when you apply for accomodations for the bar exam. >> Good luck! >> >> Ben >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:47 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >>> >>> Would the document showing my final score tell law schools that I used >>> accommodations, and would it specify the exact accommodations? >>> >>> Thanks Joseph and Angie for your answers! >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> T. Joseph Carter wrote: >>>> Haben, >>>> >>>> Braille test and double time seem to be the requests most often talked >>>> about here. Some ask for time and a half, since that's typical in the >>>> university setting, but most who do wish they'd requested double. >>>> Given the very high stakes nature of the LSAT and that I don't think >>>> more time will make a person more analytical or logical, this seems >>>> reasonable to me. >>>> >>>> Joseph >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:55:30AM -0700, Haben Girma wrote: >>>>> Hello, I'm planning to take the LSAT sometime in the next year and am >>>>> wondering what kind of accommodations are usually offered to blind >>>>> students. I am a braille reader, so I would want a braille copy of the >>>>> exam. I would also like access to a CCTV so I could draw diagrams for >>>>> some of the problems. How much extra time would I be offered? >>>>> >>>>> thanks, >>>>> Haben >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From b75205 at gmail.com Fri May 15 15:30:42 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:30:42 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> <20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> Message-ID: They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more than non disabled. Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they have gotten away with it since 1973. You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. James Pepper From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri May 15 15:42:00 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:42:00 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: An Invitation from the ABA President To Register for the 2nd National Conference on Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities Message-ID: ________________________________ From: ABA President H. Thomas Wells, Jr. [mailto:cmpdl at abanet.org] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 4:30 AM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: An Invitation from the ABA President To Register for the 2nd National Conference on Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities If you cannot view this email, click here [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/tommywells_small_75x113.jpg]Dear colleague, On behalf of the American Bar Association and its Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law, I personally invite you to the Second ABA National Conference on the Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities, co-sponsored by the Association of Corporate Counsel and the Minority Corporate Counsel Association. This groundbreaking one and a half-day program will begin on the evening of June 15, 2009, in Washington, D.C. The ABA is committed to diversity in the legal profession, including people with disabilities. The Conference will encourage legal employers to interview, hire, and retain lawyers with disabilities, and it will provide lawyers and law students with disabilities information and methods helpful for attaining employment. The program will feature national experts including law partners, corporate counsels, heads of federal legal departments, law professors, and lawyers with disabilities. We will also be asking employers to sign a pledge to promote disability diversity. I hope you can join us at this historic and important conference. For more information, please visit: http://www.abanet.org/disability/conferences/09conference.shtml or call 202-662-1571. Details on registration, including information on discounts, are available. [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/2009conferencelogowebsmall.jpg] Sincerely, [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/wells.jpg] H. Thomas Wells, Jr., President American Bar Association ________________________________ Your e-mail address will only be used within the ABA and its entities. We do not sell or rent e-mail addresses to anyone outside the ABA. Update your profile | Unsubscribe | Privacy Policy American Bar Association | 321 N Clark | Chicago, IL 60654 | 1-800-285-2221 From angie.matney at gmail.com Fri May 15 16:06:08 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 12:06:08 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> <20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> Message-ID: <4a0d92ec.02c3f10a.7f36.0480@mx.google.com> I'm pretty sure the college board no longer flags the scores of tests taken under nonstandard conditions. I don't know about ACT. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Pepper Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 11:31 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more than non disabled. Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they have gotten away with it since 1973. You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. James Pepper _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From habnkid at aol.com Fri May 15 16:38:49 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 09:38:49 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> <20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> Message-ID: <4A0D9A99.9080605@aol.com> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a university's student body is disabled? Haben James Pepper wrote: > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does > it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is both > of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a > great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of students > who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be considered > discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is not > as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, > since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. But > if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a > college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be > judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot > more than non disabled. > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they > have gotten away with it since 1973. > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept the > blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but > they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > > James Pepper > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From b75205 at gmail.com Fri May 15 19:01:44 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:01:44 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <4A0D9A99.9080605@aol.com> References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> <20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> <4A0D9A99.9080605@aol.com> Message-ID: I remember seeing a form out of the college board where you place the device used to take the test and I saw it last year on their website. Yes here is a spreadsheet from the Census on the numbers of people with degrees in relation to the population laid out by state. there are pretty high percentages of the blind with 2 years or less of college versus graduates relative to the sighted population. Even if you figure the amounts within the classes, there is still something wrong in Denmark! James Pepper . On 5/15/09, Haben Girma wrote: > > Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a > university's student body is disabled? > > Haben > > James Pepper wrote: > > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does > > it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > > schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is > both > > of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > > without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a > > great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > students > > who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > > realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be > considered > > discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is not > > as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > > course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, > > since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. But > > if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a > > college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be > > judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > > population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > > students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a > lot > > more than non disabled. > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they > > have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept > the > > blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but > > they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > > > > James Pepper > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Copy of dt_acs_2006_est_g00__data1.xls Type: application/vnd.ms-excel Size: 68608 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shamaniclivin1281 at hotmail.com Fri May 15 19:18:33 2009 From: shamaniclivin1281 at hotmail.com (Kate Thegreat) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:18:33 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Message-ID: Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an online course for medical transcription. I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it sounds interesting to me. If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? Thanks, Kate _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat May 16 06:21:45 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 23:21:45 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com><20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> Message-ID: Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the various demands placed on them by being in college and not being prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some responsibility for the completion of their course of study. Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does > it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is > both > of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a > great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > students > who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be > considered > discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is not > as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, > since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. But > if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a > college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be > judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a > lot > more than non disabled. > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they > have gotten away with it since 1973. > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept > the > blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but > they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > > James Pepper > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat May 16 07:01:02 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 00:01:02 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kate, I am a totally blind paralegal in California. This is a career change after having done social work and community organizing for many years. To become a paralegal for a law firm in most states it is recommended that you go through a paralegal training program. If you have not had extensive legal experience I would recommend a program that is live rather then a correspondence based program. In most paralegal programs offered through colleges or universities an internship is part of the program. I actually free-lance which means I work for various attorneys on an as needed basis. I mostly work for small firms or solo practitioners that don't require a full-time paralegal. I am not sure that there are that many blind paralegals in the U..S. and I am trying to collect some data about this question and to find other blind paralegals to find out their circumstances. While it is much easier today with on-line legal research and forms software program there are some duties in some circumstances that don't lend themselves to a totally blind person doing all jobs. Examples would apply where it is necessary for a paralegal to review many handwritten documents as part of trial exhibits or information that is provided by a client. This issue came up when I was in the paralegal program when I interviewed with the local public defender's office as interns would assist the lawyers in court and would frequently need to read handwritten police reports. Entering the profession I had some advantages as much of my experience as a social worker was involving law related issues such as court-ordered treatment when I was a therapist, providing alternative sentencing recommendations for criminal defense attorneys, representing clients in Social Security appeals and other administrative law hearings and administering a caseload of workers compensation clients assigned to private rehabilitation services. I have found that working with the attorneys that I have we have been able to develop innovative methods of dealing with various issues and much of the work that I do is done on-line and submitted to the attorneys electronically. If needed I will travel to the firm or attorney that I am working with to meet clients and will to other duties as needed including filing of paperwork with the court. Here in California paralegals who have completed a paralegal training program and who meet other requirements including posting of a surety bond with the county where are working can prepare documents for the general public as a "legal Document Assistant" or an Unlawful detainer Assistant" which in other states is known more commonly as land-lord tenant matters. I hope this information helps and you may feel free to contact me off list as needed. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Thegreat" To: Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:18 PM Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an online course for medical transcription. I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it sounds interesting to me. If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? Thanks, Kate _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From b75205 at gmail.com Sat May 16 07:17:40 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 02:17:40 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> <20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> Message-ID: The proportions are not even close. About 1/4 of all students graduate in the regular population but the ratio is 1/14th of the sensory impaired graduate and that includes people who are deaf. There is something going wrong around here! James Pepper From booboobuttken at hotmail.com Sat May 16 14:31:55 2009 From: booboobuttken at hotmail.com (A S) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 14:31:55 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good luck, Kate - I say go for it, but cautiosuly. I am a paralegal by training with my AS in legal assisting and my BS in legal studies. I come with legal experience and many recommendations, yet have been unable to get a job of any sort in the legal field, even with the help of Voc Rehab, since graduating four years ago. I was told prior to my educatin that it would be difficult to find work, especially in the private sector, and they were right. I do still believe that if you're at the right place at the right time and have the right skills, it can happen. Annette > From: shamaniclivin1281 at hotmail.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:18:33 -0400 > Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > > > Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an online course for medical transcription. > > > > I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. > > > > I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it sounds interesting to me. > > > > If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kate > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/booboobuttken%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat May 16 15:37:02 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 11:37:02 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92B6F8B4780740FE89AEF7E663A414F6@StevePC> Hey Chuck: What would you say are your main job duties and how do you perform them? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 3:01 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Hi Kate, I am a totally blind paralegal in California. This is a career change after having done social work and community organizing for many years. To become a paralegal for a law firm in most states it is recommended that you go through a paralegal training program. If you have not had extensive legal experience I would recommend a program that is live rather then a correspondence based program. In most paralegal programs offered through colleges or universities an internship is part of the program. I actually free-lance which means I work for various attorneys on an as needed basis. I mostly work for small firms or solo practitioners that don't require a full-time paralegal. I am not sure that there are that many blind paralegals in the U..S. and I am trying to collect some data about this question and to find other blind paralegals to find out their circumstances. While it is much easier today with on-line legal research and forms software program there are some duties in some circumstances that don't lend themselves to a totally blind person doing all jobs. Examples would apply where it is necessary for a paralegal to review many handwritten documents as part of trial exhibits or information that is provided by a client. This issue came up when I was in the paralegal program when I interviewed with the local public defender's office as interns would assist the lawyers in court and would frequently need to read handwritten police reports. Entering the profession I had some advantages as much of my experience as a social worker was involving law related issues such as court-ordered treatment when I was a therapist, providing alternative sentencing recommendations for criminal defense attorneys, representing clients in Social Security appeals and other administrative law hearings and administering a caseload of workers compensation clients assigned to private rehabilitation services. I have found that working with the attorneys that I have we have been able to develop innovative methods of dealing with various issues and much of the work that I do is done on-line and submitted to the attorneys electronically. If needed I will travel to the firm or attorney that I am working with to meet clients and will to other duties as needed including filing of paperwork with the court. Here in California paralegals who have completed a paralegal training program and who meet other requirements including posting of a surety bond with the county where are working can prepare documents for the general public as a "legal Document Assistant" or an Unlawful detainer Assistant" which in other states is known more commonly as land-lord tenant matters. I hope this information helps and you may feel free to contact me off list as needed. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Thegreat" To: Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:18 PM Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an online course for medical transcription. I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it sounds interesting to me. If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? Thanks, Kate _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2117 - Release Date: 05/15/09 17:55:00 From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Sat May 16 16:39:25 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:39:25 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the two factors here. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the various demands placed on them by being in college and not being prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some responsibility for the completion of their course of study. Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > than non disabled. > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > numbers they accept. > > James Pepper > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > bcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf b.org From angie.matney at gmail.com Sat May 16 18:18:34 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 14:18:34 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <4a0f0376.85c2f10a.1c01.0c27@mx.google.com> Good post. But if post-secondary institutions apply lower standards to applicants with disabilities and then expect them to perform to the same standards as others once they are admitted, we definitely have a problem. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of McCarthy, Jim Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 12:39 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the two factors here. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the various demands placed on them by being in college and not being prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some responsibility for the completion of their course of study. Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > than non disabled. > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > numbers they accept. > > James Pepper > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > bcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf b.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From shamaniclivin1281 at hotmail.com Sat May 16 19:14:55 2009 From: shamaniclivin1281 at hotmail.com (Kate Thegreat) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 15:14:55 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the feedback here. I will have to think on some of this a little bit more. I had read some things about paralegals often being trained right on the job. Is this a myth then, or is it just harder, in general, for a blind person to be trusted to learn on the job--of course, not for any other reason than ignorance on the part of employers, but still? Kate > From: blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > Subject: blindlaw Digest, Vol 60, Issue 12 > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:00:05 -0500 > > Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: LSAT Accommodations? (James Pepper) > 2. paralegal jobs (Kate Thegreat) > 3. Re: LSAT Accommodations? (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) > 4. Re: paralegal jobs (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) > 5. Re: LSAT Accommodations? (James Pepper) > 6. Re: paralegal jobs (A S) > 7. Re: paralegal jobs (Steve P. Deeley) > 8. Re: LSAT Accommodations? (McCarthy, Jim) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:01:44 -0500 > From: James Pepper > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I remember seeing a form out of the college board where you place the > device used to take the test and I saw it last year on their website. > > Yes here is a spreadsheet from the Census on the numbers of people > with degrees in relation to the population laid out by state. there > are pretty high percentages of the blind with 2 years or less of > college versus graduates relative to the sighted population. Even if > you figure the amounts within the classes, there is still something > wrong in Denmark! > > James Pepper > > . > > On 5/15/09, Haben Girma wrote: > > > > Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a > > university's student body is disabled? > > > > Haben > > > > James Pepper wrote: > > > > > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does > > > it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > > > schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is > > both > > > of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > > > without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a > > > great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > students > > > who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > > > realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be > > considered > > > discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is not > > > as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > > > course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, > > > since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. But > > > if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a > > > college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be > > > judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > > > population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > > > students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a > > lot > > > more than non disabled. > > > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they > > > have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept > > the > > > blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but > > > they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > > > > > > James Pepper > > > _______________________________________________ > > > blindlaw mailing list > > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Copy of dt_acs_2006_est_g00__data1.xls > Type: application/vnd.ms-excel > Size: 68608 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:18:33 -0400 > From: Kate Thegreat > Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an online course for medical transcription. > > > > I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. > > > > I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it sounds interesting to me. > > > > If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kate > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 23:21:45 -0700 > From: > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's > fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled > students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the various > demands placed on them by being in college and not being prepared to meet > the demands. While I am a strong supporter of reasonable accommodations I > believe that the students need to take some responsibility for the > completion of their course of study. Matriculation is not automatic for > disabled students or the general college population and of course is not > guaranteed upon acceptance. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Pepper" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does > > it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > > schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is > > both > > of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > > without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a > > great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > students > > who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > > realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be > > considered > > discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is not > > as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > > course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, > > since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. But > > if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a > > college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be > > judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > > population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > > students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a > > lot > > more than non disabled. > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they > > have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept > > the > > blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but > > they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > > > > James Pepper > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 00:01:02 -0700 > From: > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Kate, > I am a totally blind paralegal in California. This is a career change after > having done social work and community organizing for many years. To become a > paralegal for a law firm in most states it is recommended that you go > through a paralegal training program. If you have not had extensive legal > experience I would recommend a program that is live rather then a > correspondence based program. In most paralegal programs offered through > colleges or universities an internship is part of the program. > I actually free-lance which means I work for various attorneys on an as > needed basis. I mostly work for small firms or solo practitioners that don't > require a full-time paralegal. I am not sure that there are that many blind > paralegals in the U..S. and I am trying to collect some data about this > question and to find other blind paralegals to find out their circumstances. > While it is much easier today with on-line legal research and forms software > program there are some duties in some circumstances that don't lend > themselves to a totally blind person doing all jobs. Examples would apply > where it is necessary for a paralegal to review many handwritten documents > as part of trial exhibits or information that is provided by a client. This > issue came up when I was in the paralegal program when I interviewed with > the local public defender's office as interns would assist the lawyers in > court and would frequently need to read handwritten police reports. > Entering the profession I had some advantages as much of my experience as a > social worker was involving law related issues such as court-ordered > treatment when I was a therapist, providing alternative sentencing > recommendations for criminal defense attorneys, representing clients in > Social Security appeals and other administrative law hearings and > administering a caseload of workers compensation clients assigned to private > rehabilitation services. I have found that working with the attorneys that I > have we have been able to develop innovative methods of dealing with various > issues and much of the work that I do is done on-line and submitted to the > attorneys electronically. If needed I will travel to the firm or attorney > that I am working with to meet clients and will to other duties as needed > including filing of paperwork with the court. Here in California paralegals > who have completed a paralegal training program and who meet other > requirements including posting of a surety bond with the county where are > working can prepare documents for the general public as a "legal Document > Assistant" or an Unlawful detainer Assistant" which in other states is known > more commonly as land-lord tenant matters. > I hope this information helps and you may feel free to contact me off list > as needed. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kate Thegreat" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:18 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > > > > Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years > old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background > is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability > habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an > online course for medical transcription. > > > > I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor > at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. > > > > I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it > sounds interesting to me. > > > > If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a > law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kate > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 02:17:40 -0500 > From: James Pepper > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > The proportions are not even close. About 1/4 of all students graduate in > the regular population but the ratio is 1/14th of the sensory impaired > graduate and that includes people who are deaf. There is something going > wrong around here! > > James Pepper > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 14:31:55 +0000 > From: A S > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > > Good luck, Kate - > > I say go for it, but cautiosuly. I am a paralegal by training with my AS in legal assisting and my BS in legal studies. I come with legal experience and many recommendations, yet have been unable to get a job of any sort in the legal field, even with the help of Voc Rehab, since graduating four years ago. I was told prior to my educatin that it would be difficult to find work, especially in the private sector, and they were right. I do still believe that if you're at the right place at the right time and have the right skills, it can happen. > > Annette > > > > From: shamaniclivin1281 at hotmail.com > > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:18:33 -0400 > > Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > > > > > > Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an online course for medical transcription. > > > > > > > > I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. > > > > > > > > I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it sounds interesting to me. > > > > > > > > If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Kate > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/booboobuttken%40hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 11:37:02 -0400 > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Message-ID: <92B6F8B4780740FE89AEF7E663A414F6 at StevePC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hey Chuck: > > What would you say are your main job duties and how do you perform them? > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 3:01 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > > > Hi Kate, > I am a totally blind paralegal in California. This is a career change after > having done social work and community organizing for many years. To become a > paralegal for a law firm in most states it is recommended that you go > through a paralegal training program. If you have not had extensive legal > experience I would recommend a program that is live rather then a > correspondence based program. In most paralegal programs offered through > colleges or universities an internship is part of the program. > I actually free-lance which means I work for various attorneys on an as > needed basis. I mostly work for small firms or solo practitioners that don't > require a full-time paralegal. I am not sure that there are that many blind > paralegals in the U..S. and I am trying to collect some data about this > question and to find other blind paralegals to find out their circumstances. > While it is much easier today with on-line legal research and forms software > program there are some duties in some circumstances that don't lend > themselves to a totally blind person doing all jobs. Examples would apply > where it is necessary for a paralegal to review many handwritten documents > as part of trial exhibits or information that is provided by a client. This > issue came up when I was in the paralegal program when I interviewed with > the local public defender's office as interns would assist the lawyers in > court and would frequently need to read handwritten police reports. > Entering the profession I had some advantages as much of my experience as a > social worker was involving law related issues such as court-ordered > treatment when I was a therapist, providing alternative sentencing > recommendations for criminal defense attorneys, representing clients in > Social Security appeals and other administrative law hearings and > administering a caseload of workers compensation clients assigned to private > rehabilitation services. I have found that working with the attorneys that I > have we have been able to develop innovative methods of dealing with various > issues and much of the work that I do is done on-line and submitted to the > attorneys electronically. If needed I will travel to the firm or attorney > that I am working with to meet clients and will to other duties as needed > including filing of paperwork with the court. Here in California paralegals > who have completed a paralegal training program and who meet other > requirements including posting of a surety bond with the county where are > working can prepare documents for the general public as a "legal Document > Assistant" or an Unlawful detainer Assistant" which in other states is known > more commonly as land-lord tenant matters. > I hope this information helps and you may feel free to contact me off list > as needed. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kate Thegreat" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:18 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > > > > Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years > old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background > is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability > habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an > online course for medical transcription. > > > > I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor > at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. > > > > I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it > sounds interesting to me. > > > > If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a > law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kate > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2117 - Release Date: 05/15/09 > 17:55:00 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:39:25 -0400 > From: "McCarthy, Jim" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Message-ID: > <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34 at FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg > problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish > college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because > they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I > think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to > pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed > institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do > more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. > It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the > two factors here. > Jim McCarthy > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's > fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled > students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the > various demands placed on them by being in college and not being > prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of > reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some > responsibility for the completion of their course of study. > Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general > college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Pepper" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > > > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think > > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > > > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > > > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from > > > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle > > > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot > > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > > > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > > than non disabled. > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > > numbers they accept. > > > > James Pepper > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > > bcglobal.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf > b.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 60, Issue 12 > **************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® goes with you. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Mobile1_052009 From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Sat May 16 22:14:59 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 18:14:59 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <4a0f0376.85c2f10a.1c01.0c27@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA42@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Angie, please don't even imagine that I want schools to accept less from blind students. I fundamentally believe that when blind students get to college, the schools they attend should assume they are ready for the experience. If in fact they are not, they should fail out just like anyone else would. Jim -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:19 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Good post. But if post-secondary institutions apply lower standards to applicants with disabilities and then expect them to perform to the same standards as others once they are admitted, we definitely have a problem. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of McCarthy, Jim Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 12:39 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the two factors here. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the various demands placed on them by being in college and not being prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some responsibility for the completion of their course of study. Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > than non disabled. > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > numbers they accept. > > James Pepper > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > bcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf b.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%4 0gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf b.org From angie.matney at gmail.com Sat May 16 23:16:28 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 19:16:28 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA42@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <4a0f0376.85c2f10a.1c01.0c27@mx.google.com> <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA42@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <4a0f4949.02c3f10a.4cd7.2401@mx.google.com> Hi Jim, No, I never thought you felt that way. Sorry if my post implied that. I totally agree with you here. In my mind, there were three different issues: general student preparedness, university accommodation, and universities applying standards to blind students that are not only inconsistent with standards applied to others but are internally inconsistent as well. That was what I was trying to say. But I've already gotten started with bar review, so I was probably unclear. I didn't think you were proposing that blind students be held to lower standards. Sorry. OK: Back to Property. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of McCarthy, Jim Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 6:15 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Angie, please don't even imagine that I want schools to accept less from blind students. I fundamentally believe that when blind students get to college, the schools they attend should assume they are ready for the experience. If in fact they are not, they should fail out just like anyone else would. Jim -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:19 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Good post. But if post-secondary institutions apply lower standards to applicants with disabilities and then expect them to perform to the same standards as others once they are admitted, we definitely have a problem. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of McCarthy, Jim Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 12:39 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the two factors here. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the various demands placed on them by being in college and not being prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some responsibility for the completion of their course of study. Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > than non disabled. > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > numbers they accept. > > James Pepper > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > bcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf b.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%4 0gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf b.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat May 16 23:51:50 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 16:51:50 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs In-Reply-To: <92B6F8B4780740FE89AEF7E663A414F6@StevePC> References: <92B6F8B4780740FE89AEF7E663A414F6@StevePC> Message-ID: <54EE5CF01D244796B019EBCD2B8DC540@spike> I would say that the duties fall in to three main areas. They are legal research which I usually do on line using various legal data bases depending on what the hiring attorney uses and provides me access to as I generally am using their research accounts. This would mean accessing data bases such as Westlaw or Lexus/Nexus. drafting of documents or letters or documents which is done on the computer The third area involves public relations and networking as I am an independent contractor. This means that I need to sell myself and the services that I can offer. As much of the work falls outside of the traditional law job I will meet with various groups or individuals or groups as with my social work background I do consulting for nonprofit organizations regarding administrative matters and grant writing or other types of funding procurement. This also involves assisting with analysis of proposed legislation and public policy issues. I stay connected with various elements of the community and provide necessary networking for various groups or individuals. As my role falls in to a consultant role much of the time it is difficult to be more specific as much depends on the particular project. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 8:37 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Hey Chuck: What would you say are your main job duties and how do you perform them? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 3:01 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Hi Kate, I am a totally blind paralegal in California. This is a career change after having done social work and community organizing for many years. To become a paralegal for a law firm in most states it is recommended that you go through a paralegal training program. If you have not had extensive legal experience I would recommend a program that is live rather then a correspondence based program. In most paralegal programs offered through colleges or universities an internship is part of the program. I actually free-lance which means I work for various attorneys on an as needed basis. I mostly work for small firms or solo practitioners that don't require a full-time paralegal. I am not sure that there are that many blind paralegals in the U..S. and I am trying to collect some data about this question and to find other blind paralegals to find out their circumstances. While it is much easier today with on-line legal research and forms software program there are some duties in some circumstances that don't lend themselves to a totally blind person doing all jobs. Examples would apply where it is necessary for a paralegal to review many handwritten documents as part of trial exhibits or information that is provided by a client. This issue came up when I was in the paralegal program when I interviewed with the local public defender's office as interns would assist the lawyers in court and would frequently need to read handwritten police reports. Entering the profession I had some advantages as much of my experience as a social worker was involving law related issues such as court-ordered treatment when I was a therapist, providing alternative sentencing recommendations for criminal defense attorneys, representing clients in Social Security appeals and other administrative law hearings and administering a caseload of workers compensation clients assigned to private rehabilitation services. I have found that working with the attorneys that I have we have been able to develop innovative methods of dealing with various issues and much of the work that I do is done on-line and submitted to the attorneys electronically. If needed I will travel to the firm or attorney that I am working with to meet clients and will to other duties as needed including filing of paperwork with the court. Here in California paralegals who have completed a paralegal training program and who meet other requirements including posting of a surety bond with the county where are working can prepare documents for the general public as a "legal Document Assistant" or an Unlawful detainer Assistant" which in other states is known more commonly as land-lord tenant matters. I hope this information helps and you may feel free to contact me off list as needed. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Thegreat" To: Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:18 PM Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an online course for medical transcription. I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it sounds interesting to me. If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? Thanks, Kate _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2117 - Release Date: 05/15/09 17:55:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun May 17 00:17:21 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 17:17:21 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2348B60BF35944678CF742D187760311@spike> While some attorneys may coose to train paralegals on the job there is an effort in many states to start to develop standards and regulate the paralegal profession. While for the most part this has been done through self-regulation as is done in many industries there is a movement in the profession to establish and develop standards to create a greater degree of professionalism. These standards are beneficial to the profession as well as the general public. There are both state and national associations of paralegals that are involved in setting standards for the profession. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Thegreat" To: Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Thanks for the feedback here. I will have to think on some of this a little bit more. I had read some things about paralegals often being trained right on the job. Is this a myth then, or is it just harder, in general, for a blind person to be trusted to learn on the job--of course, not for any other reason than ignorance on the part of employers, but still? Kate > From: blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > Subject: blindlaw Digest, Vol 60, Issue 12 > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:00:05 -0500 > > Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: LSAT Accommodations? (James Pepper) > 2. paralegal jobs (Kate Thegreat) > 3. Re: LSAT Accommodations? (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) > 4. Re: paralegal jobs (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) > 5. Re: LSAT Accommodations? (James Pepper) > 6. Re: paralegal jobs (A S) > 7. Re: paralegal jobs (Steve P. Deeley) > 8. Re: LSAT Accommodations? (McCarthy, Jim) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:01:44 -0500 > From: James Pepper > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I remember seeing a form out of the college board where you place the > device used to take the test and I saw it last year on their website. > > Yes here is a spreadsheet from the Census on the numbers of people > with degrees in relation to the population laid out by state. there > are pretty high percentages of the blind with 2 years or less of > college versus graduates relative to the sighted population. Even if > you figure the amounts within the classes, there is still something > wrong in Denmark! > > James Pepper > > . > > On 5/15/09, Haben Girma wrote: > > > > Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a > > university's student body is disabled? > > > > Haben > > > > James Pepper wrote: > > > > > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > > > does > > > it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > > > schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it > > > is > > both > > > of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > > > without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It > > > is a > > > great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > students > > > who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > > > realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be > > considered > > > discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is > > > not > > > as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > > > course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with > > > respect, > > > since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. > > > But > > > if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into > > > a > > > college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably > > > be > > > judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > > > population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > > > students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university > > > a > > lot > > > more than non disabled. > > > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > > > they > > > have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > > > accept > > the > > > blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, > > > but > > > they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > > > > > > James Pepper > > > _______________________________________________ > > > blindlaw mailing list > > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Copy of dt_acs_2006_est_g00__data1.xls > Type: application/vnd.ms-excel > Size: 68608 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:18:33 -0400 > From: Kate Thegreat > Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years > old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background > is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability > habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an > online course for medical transcription. > > > > I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my > counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at > it. > > > > I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and > it sounds interesting to me. > > > > If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a > law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kate > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 23:21:45 -0700 > From: > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's > fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled > students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the > various > demands placed on them by being in college and not being prepared to meet > the demands. While I am a strong supporter of reasonable accommodations I > believe that the students need to take some responsibility for the > completion of their course of study. Matriculation is not automatic for > disabled students or the general college population and of course is not > guaranteed upon acceptance. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Pepper" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > > does > > it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > > schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is > > both > > of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > > without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is > > a > > great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > students > > who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > > realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be > > considered > > discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is > > not > > as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > > course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with > > respect, > > since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. > > But > > if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a > > college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be > > judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > > population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > > students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a > > lot > > more than non disabled. > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > > they > > have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept > > the > > blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but > > they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > > > > James Pepper > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 00:01:02 -0700 > From: > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Kate, > I am a totally blind paralegal in California. This is a career change > after > having done social work and community organizing for many years. To become > a > paralegal for a law firm in most states it is recommended that you go > through a paralegal training program. If you have not had extensive legal > experience I would recommend a program that is live rather then a > correspondence based program. In most paralegal programs offered through > colleges or universities an internship is part of the program. > I actually free-lance which means I work for various attorneys on an as > needed basis. I mostly work for small firms or solo practitioners that > don't > require a full-time paralegal. I am not sure that there are that many > blind > paralegals in the U..S. and I am trying to collect some data about this > question and to find other blind paralegals to find out their > circumstances. > While it is much easier today with on-line legal research and forms > software > program there are some duties in some circumstances that don't lend > themselves to a totally blind person doing all jobs. Examples would apply > where it is necessary for a paralegal to review many handwritten documents > as part of trial exhibits or information that is provided by a client. > This > issue came up when I was in the paralegal program when I interviewed with > the local public defender's office as interns would assist the lawyers in > court and would frequently need to read handwritten police reports. > Entering the profession I had some advantages as much of my experience as > a > social worker was involving law related issues such as court-ordered > treatment when I was a therapist, providing alternative sentencing > recommendations for criminal defense attorneys, representing clients in > Social Security appeals and other administrative law hearings and > administering a caseload of workers compensation clients assigned to > private > rehabilitation services. I have found that working with the attorneys that > I > have we have been able to develop innovative methods of dealing with > various > issues and much of the work that I do is done on-line and submitted to the > attorneys electronically. If needed I will travel to the firm or attorney > that I am working with to meet clients and will to other duties as needed > including filing of paperwork with the court. Here in California > paralegals > who have completed a paralegal training program and who meet other > requirements including posting of a surety bond with the county where are > working can prepare documents for the general public as a "legal Document > Assistant" or an Unlawful detainer Assistant" which in other states is > known > more commonly as land-lord tenant matters. > I hope this information helps and you may feel free to contact me off list > as needed. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kate Thegreat" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:18 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > > > > Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years > old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background > is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability > habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an > online course for medical transcription. > > > > I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my > counselor > at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. > > > > I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and > it > sounds interesting to me. > > > > If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a > law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kate > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 02:17:40 -0500 > From: James Pepper > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > The proportions are not even close. About 1/4 of all students graduate in > the regular population but the ratio is 1/14th of the sensory impaired > graduate and that includes people who are deaf. There is something going > wrong around here! > > James Pepper > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 14:31:55 +0000 > From: A S > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > > Good luck, Kate - > > I say go for it, but cautiosuly. I am a paralegal by training with my AS > in legal assisting and my BS in legal studies. I come with legal > experience and many recommendations, yet have been unable to get a job of > any sort in the legal field, even with the help of Voc Rehab, since > graduating four years ago. I was told prior to my educatin that it would > be difficult to find work, especially in the private sector, and they were > right. I do still believe that if you're at the right place at the right > time and have the right skills, it can happen. > > Annette > > > > From: shamaniclivin1281 at hotmail.com > > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:18:33 -0400 > > Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > > > > > > Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 > > years old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior > > background is in various teaching capacities related to computers and > > disability habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also > > am taking an online course for medical transcription. > > > > > > > > I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my > > counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at > > it. > > > > > > > > I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and > > it sounds interesting to me. > > > > > > > > If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach > > a law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Kate > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/booboobuttken%40hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 11:37:02 -0400 > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Message-ID: <92B6F8B4780740FE89AEF7E663A414F6 at StevePC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hey Chuck: > > What would you say are your main job duties and how do you perform them? > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 3:01 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > > > Hi Kate, > I am a totally blind paralegal in California. This is a career change > after > having done social work and community organizing for many years. To become > a > paralegal for a law firm in most states it is recommended that you go > through a paralegal training program. If you have not had extensive legal > experience I would recommend a program that is live rather then a > correspondence based program. In most paralegal programs offered through > colleges or universities an internship is part of the program. > I actually free-lance which means I work for various attorneys on an as > needed basis. I mostly work for small firms or solo practitioners that > don't > require a full-time paralegal. I am not sure that there are that many > blind > paralegals in the U..S. and I am trying to collect some data about this > question and to find other blind paralegals to find out their > circumstances. > While it is much easier today with on-line legal research and forms > software > program there are some duties in some circumstances that don't lend > themselves to a totally blind person doing all jobs. Examples would apply > where it is necessary for a paralegal to review many handwritten documents > as part of trial exhibits or information that is provided by a client. > This > issue came up when I was in the paralegal program when I interviewed with > the local public defender's office as interns would assist the lawyers in > court and would frequently need to read handwritten police reports. > Entering the profession I had some advantages as much of my experience as > a > social worker was involving law related issues such as court-ordered > treatment when I was a therapist, providing alternative sentencing > recommendations for criminal defense attorneys, representing clients in > Social Security appeals and other administrative law hearings and > administering a caseload of workers compensation clients assigned to > private > rehabilitation services. I have found that working with the attorneys that > I > have we have been able to develop innovative methods of dealing with > various > issues and much of the work that I do is done on-line and submitted to the > attorneys electronically. If needed I will travel to the firm or attorney > that I am working with to meet clients and will to other duties as needed > including filing of paperwork with the court. Here in California > paralegals > who have completed a paralegal training program and who meet other > requirements including posting of a surety bond with the county where are > working can prepare documents for the general public as a "legal Document > Assistant" or an Unlawful detainer Assistant" which in other states is > known > more commonly as land-lord tenant matters. > I hope this information helps and you may feel free to contact me off list > as needed. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kate Thegreat" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:18 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > > > > Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years > old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background > is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability > habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an > online course for medical transcription. > > > > I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my > counselor > at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. > > > > I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and > it > sounds interesting to me. > > > > If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a > law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kate > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2117 - Release Date: 05/15/09 > 17:55:00 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:39:25 -0400 > From: "McCarthy, Jim" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Message-ID: > <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34 at FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg > problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish > college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because > they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I > think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to > pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed > institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do > more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. > It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the > two factors here. > Jim McCarthy > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's > fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled > students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the > various demands placed on them by being in college and not being > prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of > reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some > responsibility for the completion of their course of study. > Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general > college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Pepper" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > > > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think > > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > > > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > > > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from > > > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle > > > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot > > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > > > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > > than non disabled. > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > > numbers they accept. > > > > James Pepper > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > > bcglobal.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf > b.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 60, Issue 12 > **************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® goes with you. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Mobile1_052009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From dandrews at visi.com Sun May 17 03:05:41 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 22:05:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34@FPNTEXCBE01.service s.local> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: Let me start by saying this is just my opinion. I also will say I work for a rehab agency. I also monitor lots of lists here, and see stories from all over the country. I think the bigger problem is that many students don't have the skills to succeed, not that they aren't getting enough or the right accommodations. People can't take notes independently, can't read Braille, can't travel independently, don't know how to use human readers, and on and on. And some of the reason for that is accommodations to willingly granted. It would be interesting to see the failure rate back in the 60's and 70;'s before we had ADA etc. Dave At 11:39 AM 5/16/2009, you wrote: >I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg >problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish >college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because >they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I >think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to >pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed >institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do >more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. >It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the >two factors here. >Jim McCarthy > >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > >Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's >fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled >students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the >various demands placed on them by being in college and not being >prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of >reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some >responsibility for the completion of their course of study. >Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general >college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. >Chuck >----- Original Message ----- >From: "James Pepper" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > > > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think > > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > > > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > > > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from > > > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle > > > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot > > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > > > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > > than non disabled. > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > > numbers they accept. > > > > James Pepper > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > > bcglobal.net > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf >b.org > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4080 (20090515) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com From harderlucas at yahoo.com Sun May 17 04:34:38 2009 From: harderlucas at yahoo.com (Lucas Harder) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 21:34:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Message-ID: <8615.77890.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I believe the main problem starts in primary and secondary school. Students with a disability are not expected to do as well as those without. This leads to a lack of desire from teachers and administrators to put the extra effort in the beginning to make sure that a student with a disability has the tools they will need to thrive later in life. They get labled as a person with a disability and then either they are given so many accomidations that they fly through school without actually learning anything useful, or they aren’t given the accomidations they need and eventually drop out. If we really want to work on the issue of higher ed we need to start at the beginning. In no way am I'm not saying that higher ed doesn’t have its own set of problems; it is much more that if the proper groundwork was layed then there would be fewer problems later on.   Lucas Harder Hendrix College Class of *10 harderlucas at yahoo.com   --- On Sat, 5/16/09, David Andrews wrote: From: David Andrews Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 10:05 PM Let me start by saying this is just my opinion.  I also will say I work for a rehab agency.  I also monitor lots of lists here, and see stories from all over the country.  I think the bigger problem is that many students don't have the skills to succeed, not that they aren't getting enough or the right accommodations.  People can't take notes independently, can't read Braille, can't travel independently, don't know how to use human readers, and on and on.  And some of the reason for that is accommodations to willingly granted. It would be interesting to see the failure rate back in the 60's and 70;'s before we had ADA etc. Dave At 11:39 AM 5/16/2009, you wrote: >I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg >problem.  Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish >college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because >they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so.  I >think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to >pressure the colleges and universities.  Personally, I think higher ed >institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do >more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. >It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the >two factors here. >Jim McCarthy > >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > >Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's >fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled >students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the >various demands placed on them by being in college and not being >prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of >reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some >responsibility for the completion of their course of study. >Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general >college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. >Chuck >----- Original Message ----- >From: "James Pepper" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > > > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test.  I think > > it is both of them.  This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > > > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > > > not.  It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > > not be considered discriminatory.  But your chances of graduating from > > > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > > on a regular basis.  Of course state schools are more likely to handle > > > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > > consequences of discriminiation.  But if you are competing with a lot > > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > > > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > > than non disabled. > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > > numbers they accept. > > > > James Pepper > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > > bcglobal.net > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf >b.org > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4080 (20090515) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/harderlucas%40yahoo.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun May 17 06:06:09 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 23:06:09 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <93D41DC9073F4A298A1BE77DF92B9C50@spike> Being a product of public schools in the 60's where I was the only blind student and college and grad school in the 70's and 80's where accommodations were negotiated between myself and the professors on a large university campus. The bottom line was that blind and other disabled students learned how to solve their problems and how to function independently in all facets of their education and life or they failed. Basic coping skills both for academic and nonacademic survival are a needed prerequisite to college and work and reasonable accommodation through any legislation is not going to bring about an increase of success in college or the real world of employment. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > Let me start by saying this is just my opinion. I also will say I work > for a rehab agency. I also monitor lots of lists here, and see stories > from all over the country. I think the bigger problem is that many > students don't have the skills to succeed, not that they aren't getting > enough or the right accommodations. People can't take notes > independently, can't read Braille, can't travel independently, don't know > how to use human readers, and on and on. And some of the reason for that > is accommodations to willingly granted. > > It would be interesting to see the failure rate back in the 60's and 70;'s > before we had ADA etc. > > Dave > > At 11:39 AM 5/16/2009, you wrote: >>I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg >>problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish >>college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because >>they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I >>think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to >>pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed >>institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do >>more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. >>It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the >>two factors here. >>Jim McCarthy >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >>Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM >>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >>Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's >>fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled >>students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the >>various demands placed on them by being in college and not being >>prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of >>reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some >>responsibility for the completion of their course of study. >>Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general >>college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. >>Chuck >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "James Pepper" >>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >> > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams >> > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform >> >> > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think >> > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and >> >> > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or >> >> > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >> > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >> > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you >> > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to >> > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from >> >> > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled >> > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle >> >> > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the >> > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot >> > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good >> > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your >> > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. >> > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who >> >> > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more >> > than non disabled. >> > >> > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, >> > they have gotten away with it since 1973. >> > >> > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges >> > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the >> > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the >> > numbers they accept. >> > >> > James Pepper >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s >> > bcglobal.net >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf >>b.org >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >> >> >>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>signature database 4080 (20090515) __________ >> >>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >>http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Sun May 17 06:36:27 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 23:36:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <4A0D9A99.9080605@aol.com> Message-ID: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> Hello all, Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany any non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a disability) here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law schools: "Dear Colleague: This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard timing conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The nonstandard test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test date as the corresponding standard administration. Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of this score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. The LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services explain: LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard conditions. Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated forms, accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's scores from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken under standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the LSAT should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a one-day multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school course work and examinations." -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Haben Girma Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a university's student body is disabled? Haben James Pepper wrote: > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does > it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is both > of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a > great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of students > who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be considered > discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is not > as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, > since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. But > if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a > college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be > judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot > more than non disabled. > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they > have gotten away with it since 1973. > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept the > blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but > they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > > James Pepper > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com From habnkid at aol.com Sun May 17 08:22:05 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 01:22:05 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> Message-ID: <4A0FC92D.30204@aol.com> The letter implies that the score of a disabled person on an LSAT is meaningless if it was taken in nonstandard conditions since it cannot be compared to other scores. Then are the LSAT scores of blind test takers, who request extra time, respected by law schools? They don't seem respected by the LSAC. The whole point of the LSAT is to compare one student's reasoning and comprehension skills with other prospective students. If the LSAC implies tests taken in nonstandard conditions are meaningless, then taking the LSAT, for a blind person, becomes a mere gesture. Why would a law school admit a blind student when the student's LSAT score comes with this doubt-producing letter? Haben Stephanie Enyart wrote: > Hello all, > Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany any > non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a disability) > here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law schools: > > "Dear Colleague: > This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard timing > conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The nonstandard > test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test date > as the corresponding standard administration. > Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing > conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of this > score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. The > LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services > explain: > LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated > conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard conditions. > Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated forms, > accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's scores > from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken under > standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the LSAT > should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted > once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a one-day > multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school > course work and examinations." > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Haben Girma > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a > university's student body is disabled? > > Haben > > James Pepper wrote: > >> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does >> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is >> > both > >> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not >> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a >> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >> > students > >> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they >> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >> > considered > >> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is not >> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of >> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, >> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. But >> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a >> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be >> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of >> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a >> > lot > >> more than non disabled. >> >> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they >> have gotten away with it since 1973. >> >> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept >> > the > >> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but >> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. >> >> James Pepper >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 > 0yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From everett at zufelt.ca Sun May 17 09:28:40 2009 From: everett at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 05:28:40 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <4A0FC92D.30204@aol.com> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <4A0FC92D.30204@aol.com> Message-ID: <7B992CA5-4FBB-47FD-8747-926992CE1BC4@zufelt.ca> Good morning, I am not sure about U.S. schools, I expect they have varying feelings about the LSAT. In Canada I was accepted into the one school I applied to with no problems. They look at the score 60-180, and not at the percentile score. Accommodated test takers still get a 60-180 score, just not a percentile ranking. Which is not really fair, but does make some sense based on statistical analysis, not total sense, just a little. HTH, Everett Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 17-May-09, at 4:22 AM, Haben Girma wrote: > > The letter implies that the score of a disabled person on an LSAT is > meaningless if it was taken in nonstandard conditions since it > cannot be compared to other scores. Then are the LSAT scores of > blind test takers, who request extra time, respected by law schools? > They don't seem respected by the LSAC. > > The whole point of the LSAT is to compare one student's reasoning > and comprehension skills with other prospective students. If the > LSAC implies tests taken in nonstandard conditions are meaningless, > then taking the LSAT, for a blind person, becomes a mere gesture. > Why would a law school admit a blind student when the student's LSAT > score comes with this doubt-producing letter? > > Haben > > Stephanie Enyart wrote: >> Hello all, >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will >> accompany any >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a >> disability) >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >> schools: >> >> "Dear Colleague: >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard >> timing >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The >> nonstandard >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same >> test date >> as the corresponding standard administration. >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of >> comparability of this >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be >> determined. The >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related >> Services >> explain: >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >> conditions. >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated >> forms, >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an >> individual's scores >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests >> taken under >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for >> the LSAT >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be >> granted >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >> one-day >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law >> school >> course work and examinations." >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >> university's student body is disabled? >> >> Haben >> >> James Pepper wrote: >> >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance >>> exams does >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform >>> the >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think >>> it is >>> >> both >> >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is >>> not >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. >>> It is a >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >>> >> students >> >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once >>> they >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >>> >> considered >> >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that >>> situation is not >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular >>> basis. Of >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with >>> respect, >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of >>> discriminiation. But >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get >>> into a >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will >>> probably be >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain >>> amount of >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the >>> university a >>> >> lot >> >>> more than non disabled. >>> >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of >>> profiling, they >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >>> >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges >>> accept >>> >> the >> >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the >>> population, but >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they >>> accept. >>> >>> James Pepper >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart >> %4 >> 0yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sun May 17 11:39:06 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 04:39:06 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <4A0FC92D.30204@aol.com> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <4A0FC92D.30204@aol.com> Message-ID: <20090517113906.GB4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> There is certainly an implication there, Haben, you are correct. Standard scores come generally have a confidence interval--basically a plus or minus so many points. When you add a variable, you increase the size of that margin of error. A high score is still a high score. It's just got a larger margin of error, and LSAC would not know precisely how large that margin is because they didn't bother to account for this variable. A direct comparison of a score from a test under conditions different than the normalization sample to one given under standard conditions cannot be guaranteed to be valid. Law schools know what good and bad LSAT scores look like. A given non-standard score can be either a bit worse or a bit better than the same standard score, and you can't really know which it is. That's a big deal until you simply group scores into categories such as "high", "average", and "low", with a few scores being in between these broad categories. By the time you do that, you've more than accounted for the extra variability. Joseph Math Nerd On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 01:22:05AM -0700, Haben Girma wrote: > > The letter implies that the score of a disabled person on an LSAT is > meaningless if it was taken in nonstandard conditions since it cannot be > compared to other scores. Then are the LSAT scores of blind test takers, > who request extra time, respected by law schools? They don't seem > respected by the LSAC. > > The whole point of the LSAT is to compare one student's reasoning and > comprehension skills with other prospective students. If the LSAC > implies tests taken in nonstandard conditions are meaningless, then > taking the LSAT, for a blind person, becomes a mere gesture. Why would a > law school admit a blind student when the student's LSAT score comes > with this doubt-producing letter? > > Haben > > Stephanie Enyart wrote: >> Hello all, >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany any >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a disability) >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law schools: >> >> "Dear Colleague: >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard timing >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The nonstandard >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test date >> as the corresponding standard administration. >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of this >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. The >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >> explain: >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard conditions. >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated forms, >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's scores >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken under >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the LSAT >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a one-day >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >> course work and examinations." From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sun May 17 12:16:39 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 05:16:39 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <93D41DC9073F4A298A1BE77DF92B9C50@spike> References: <93D41DC9073F4A298A1BE77DF92B9C50@spike> Message-ID: <20090517121639.GC4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> Chuck, I'd say lack of preparation and acquisition of skills needed for college accounts for a fair bit, but sometimes it just doesn't matter what you bring to the game. Sometimes, the game's been rigged, and you may not know about it until you've invested yourself. There are few coping skills that will help you if you become subject to institutionalized discrimination, the subjective and reactive application of unwritten policies, and vicious gossip and character assassination. With strong social support, tenacity in abundance, very strong skills, and the grace of God, you might survive. That's what I've been dealing with. Of course, anyone who knows me can tell you that I am a born fighter. I don't give up. More importantly, if I have to go through it, I'm going to make sure that nobody else ever has to. And yet, even I have been ready to walk away a few times. I can promise you that anyone else would have. I've learned that many people have in the past. Not one person with a disability has survived my program in six years. Sometimes, it just doesn't matter what you do, how you do it, or what skills you've got. If your faculty are determined to see you fail because you are blind, there's not much you can do until the damage is already done. I don't know how we can prepare people for that, except to have them read lots of early Federation history and all of Dr. Jernigan's more militant speeches. *grin* I'm not certain it'll help, but it's the best suggestion I've got. Joseph On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 11:06:09PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: > Being a product of public schools in the 60's where I was the only blind > student and college and grad school in the 70's and 80's where > accommodations were negotiated between myself and the professors on a > large university campus. The bottom line was that blind and other > disabled students learned how to solve their problems and how to function > independently in all facets of their education and life or they failed. > Basic coping skills both for academic and nonacademic survival are a > needed prerequisite to college and work and reasonable accommodation > through any legislation is not going to bring about an increase of > success in college or the real world of employment. > Chuck From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun May 17 14:31:40 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 10:31:40 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <93D41DC9073F4A298A1BE77DF92B9C50@spike> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <93D41DC9073F4A298A1BE77DF92B9C50@spike> Message-ID: <96705BCEB573495385D168A2793EAEA3@StevePC> When I was in college and graduate school, I contacted all my professors and asked them what books would be used in their classes. I also told them I was blind and requested they allow me to use a tape recorder for notes. In addition, I usually requested a meeting prior to classes starting just to introduce myself to them. If a problem arose during the semester, we were able to work it out. Kids today rely on others to solve their problems with professors. I got to know my professors on a level which made it possible for us to work together. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > Being a product of public schools in the 60's where I was the only blind > student and college and grad school in the 70's and 80's where > accommodations were negotiated between myself and the professors on a > large > university campus. The bottom line was that blind and other disabled > students learned how to solve their problems and how to function > independently in all facets of their education and life or they failed. > Basic coping skills both for academic and nonacademic survival are a > needed > prerequisite to college and work and reasonable accommodation through any > legislation is not going to bring about an increase of success in college > or > the real world of employment. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 8:05 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > >> Let me start by saying this is just my opinion. I also will say I work >> for a rehab agency. I also monitor lots of lists here, and see stories >> from all over the country. I think the bigger problem is that many >> students don't have the skills to succeed, not that they aren't getting >> enough or the right accommodations. People can't take notes >> independently, can't read Braille, can't travel independently, don't know >> how to use human readers, and on and on. And some of the reason for that >> is accommodations to willingly granted. >> >> It would be interesting to see the failure rate back in the 60's and >> 70;'s >> before we had ADA etc. >> >> Dave >> >> At 11:39 AM 5/16/2009, you wrote: >>>I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg >>>problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish >>>college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because >>>they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I >>>think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to >>>pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed >>>institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do >>>more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. >>>It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the >>>two factors here. >>>Jim McCarthy >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >>>Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM >>>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>> >>>Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's >>>fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled >>>students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the >>>various demands placed on them by being in college and not being >>>prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of >>>reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some >>>responsibility for the completion of their course of study. >>>Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general >>>college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. >>>Chuck >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "James Pepper" >>>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM >>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>> >>> >>> > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams >>> > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform >>> >>> > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think >>> > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and >>> >>> > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or >>> >>> > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>> > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >>> > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you >>> > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to >>> > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from >>> >>> > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled >>> > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle >>> >>> > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the >>> > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot >>> > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good >>> > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your >>> > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. >>> > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who >>> >>> > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more >>> > than non disabled. >>> > >>> > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, >>> > they have gotten away with it since 1973. >>> > >>> > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges >>> > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the >>> > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the >>> > numbers they accept. >>> > >>> > James Pepper >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > blindlaw mailing list >>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s >>> > bcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>blindlaw mailing list >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>blindlaw: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf >>>b.org >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>blindlaw mailing list >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>blindlaw: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >>> >>> >>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>>signature database 4080 (20090515) __________ >>> >>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >>> >>>http://www.eset.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun May 17 14:33:10 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 10:33:10 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs In-Reply-To: <54EE5CF01D244796B019EBCD2B8DC540@spike> References: <92B6F8B4780740FE89AEF7E663A414F6@StevePC> <54EE5CF01D244796B019EBCD2B8DC540@spike> Message-ID: <26C1603C45944DC1839B590FA3B32E72@StevePC> Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 7:51 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs I would say that the duties fall in to three main areas. They are legal research which I usually do on line using various legal data bases depending on what the hiring attorney uses and provides me access to as I generally am using their research accounts. This would mean accessing data bases such as Westlaw or Lexus/Nexus. drafting of documents or letters or documents which is done on the computer The third area involves public relations and networking as I am an independent contractor. This means that I need to sell myself and the services that I can offer. As much of the work falls outside of the traditional law job I will meet with various groups or individuals or groups as with my social work background I do consulting for nonprofit organizations regarding administrative matters and grant writing or other types of funding procurement. This also involves assisting with analysis of proposed legislation and public policy issues. I stay connected with various elements of the community and provide necessary networking for various groups or individuals. As my role falls in to a consultant role much of the time it is difficult to be more specific as much depends on the particular project. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 8:37 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Hey Chuck: What would you say are your main job duties and how do you perform them? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 3:01 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Hi Kate, I am a totally blind paralegal in California. This is a career change after having done social work and community organizing for many years. To become a paralegal for a law firm in most states it is recommended that you go through a paralegal training program. If you have not had extensive legal experience I would recommend a program that is live rather then a correspondence based program. In most paralegal programs offered through colleges or universities an internship is part of the program. I actually free-lance which means I work for various attorneys on an as needed basis. I mostly work for small firms or solo practitioners that don't require a full-time paralegal. I am not sure that there are that many blind paralegals in the U..S. and I am trying to collect some data about this question and to find other blind paralegals to find out their circumstances. While it is much easier today with on-line legal research and forms software program there are some duties in some circumstances that don't lend themselves to a totally blind person doing all jobs. Examples would apply where it is necessary for a paralegal to review many handwritten documents as part of trial exhibits or information that is provided by a client. This issue came up when I was in the paralegal program when I interviewed with the local public defender's office as interns would assist the lawyers in court and would frequently need to read handwritten police reports. Entering the profession I had some advantages as much of my experience as a social worker was involving law related issues such as court-ordered treatment when I was a therapist, providing alternative sentencing recommendations for criminal defense attorneys, representing clients in Social Security appeals and other administrative law hearings and administering a caseload of workers compensation clients assigned to private rehabilitation services. I have found that working with the attorneys that I have we have been able to develop innovative methods of dealing with various issues and much of the work that I do is done on-line and submitted to the attorneys electronically. If needed I will travel to the firm or attorney that I am working with to meet clients and will to other duties as needed including filing of paperwork with the court. Here in California paralegals who have completed a paralegal training program and who meet other requirements including posting of a surety bond with the county where are working can prepare documents for the general public as a "legal Document Assistant" or an Unlawful detainer Assistant" which in other states is known more commonly as land-lord tenant matters. I hope this information helps and you may feel free to contact me off list as needed. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Thegreat" To: Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:18 PM Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an online course for medical transcription. I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it sounds interesting to me. If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? Thanks, Kate _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2117 - Release Date: 05/15/09 17:55:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00 From rjtlawfirm at yahoo.com Sun May 17 15:09:12 2009 From: rjtlawfirm at yahoo.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 08:09:12 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: One possible solution might be to begin at the beginning; let the NFB establish a working group to meet with college and university representatives to commence an ongoing dialog on the process of accommodation as it relates to blind/visually impaired students and/or applicants. Such an ongoing dialog might be helpful, especially to the extent that it gets colleges away from the notion of "one glove fits all" approach to accommodation. If there was ever a place for the full functioning of the "interactive process" it is in the university settting. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 8:06 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Let me start by saying this is just my opinion. I also will say I work for a rehab agency. I also monitor lots of lists here, and see stories from all over the country. I think the bigger problem is that many students don't have the skills to succeed, not that they aren't getting enough or the right accommodations. People can't take notes independently, can't read Braille, can't travel independently, don't know how to use human readers, and on and on. And some of the reason for that is accommodations to willingly granted. It would be interesting to see the failure rate back in the 60's and 70;'s before we had ADA etc. Dave At 11:39 AM 5/16/2009, you wrote: >I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg >problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish >college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because >they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I >think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to >pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed >institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do >more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. >It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the >two factors here. >Jim McCarthy > >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > >Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's >fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled >students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the >various demands placed on them by being in college and not being >prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of >reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some >responsibility for the completion of their course of study. >Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general >college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. >Chuck >----- Original Message ----- >From: "James Pepper" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > > > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think > > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > > > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > > > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from > > > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle > > > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot > > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > > > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > > than non disabled. > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > > numbers they accept. > > > > James Pepper > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > > bcglobal.net > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf >b.org > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.c om > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4080 (20090515) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjtlawfirm%40yahoo .com From shamaniclivin1281 at hotmail.com Sun May 17 19:10:04 2009 From: shamaniclivin1281 at hotmail.com (Kate Thegreat) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 15:10:04 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just my two cents on this topic... I ended up finally losing all my vision in junior high school after a gradual loss over the years. As soon as large print books were no longer an option for me that particular year, I was essentialy forced into a situation where I was not allowed to take the initiative to help myself--I wasn't given any options or say in how to handle anything that came up. My parents, teachers, and guidance counselors took over and didn't include me in their meetings. They knew what was best for me, supposedly. I was labeled as a "bad" kid at the time because I really rebelled against the control they took over my life. I had always been a very autonomous, creative kid and I didn't like how they were handling things. After a year of fighting a one-woman battle against all those adults who "knew better" they finally mentally and emotionally cornered me and I had no way out except to back down and allow them to do what they wanted. It was difficult because I really honestly lost my sense of empowerment and autonomy from that point through the end of high school. That particular year in junior high was a really, really intense year, and they would not allow me to be a part of my own life transition and resolve. I was about 13 at the time and a perfect age to be a part of the solution to the dilemma. I never have been certain why they taught me to solely rely on an aide who took notes for me, communicated with my teachers for me, and read my homework to me. I wanted to learn the skills of using tape recorders, laptop, and all the like in order to be independent, but I was literally held back from doing that by the people who should have been promoting that type of initiative in me. Once I got to college, I didn't have too much difficulty taking initiative, but at that point the sense of insecurity, doubt and overall powerlessness that the whole junior high and high school experience had etched into me, really reeked havoc in all areas of my life. I felt less able, less creative, less empowered and less of a lot of things. I managed to get through purely on my type A, perfectionistic drive, but college was honestly a blur and it isn't a terribly great and memorable time in my life. It's taken me until just recently to really learn how to take control of my own life again instead of only theoretically knowing how to do it, but still somehow mentally stalling as if someone else is going to come hold my hand and tell me how to live my life. So I completely agree that kids need to be helped early on to learn the skills and have those things reinforced before they are dumped into the big pond called university. That is what makes the difference between a college graduate with a disability and a college drop out, or even a college survivor with a disability. Kate _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun May 17 21:23:37 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 17:23:37 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F2DF26327E340DCBC2E714DBE7D549A@StevePC> When a student takes his or her own notes, the person knows what is important to them. I don't understand how a person can rely on a note taker who will determine what is important for the student to know?? You sound like a real fantastic person. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Thegreat" To: Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Just my two cents on this topic... I ended up finally losing all my vision in junior high school after a gradual loss over the years. As soon as large print books were no longer an option for me that particular year, I was essentialy forced into a situation where I was not allowed to take the initiative to help myself--I wasn't given any options or say in how to handle anything that came up. My parents, teachers, and guidance counselors took over and didn't include me in their meetings. They knew what was best for me, supposedly. I was labeled as a "bad" kid at the time because I really rebelled against the control they took over my life. I had always been a very autonomous, creative kid and I didn't like how they were handling things. After a year of fighting a one-woman battle against all those adults who "knew better" they finally mentally and emotionally cornered me and I had no way out except to back down and allow them to do what they wanted. It was difficult because I really honestly lost my sense of empowerment and autonomy from that point through the end of high school. That particular year in junior high was a really, really intense year, and they would not allow me to be a part of my own life transition and resolve. I was about 13 at the time and a perfect age to be a part of the solution to the dilemma. I never have been certain why they taught me to solely rely on an aide who took notes for me, communicated with my teachers for me, and read my homework to me. I wanted to learn the skills of using tape recorders, laptop, and all the like in order to be independent, but I was literally held back from doing that by the people who should have been promoting that type of initiative in me. Once I got to college, I didn't have too much difficulty taking initiative, but at that point the sense of insecurity, doubt and overall powerlessness that the whole junior high and high school experience had etched into me, really reeked havoc in all areas of my life. I felt less able, less creative, less empowered and less of a lot of things. I managed to get through purely on my type A, perfectionistic drive, but college was honestly a blur and it isn't a terribly great and memorable time in my life. It's taken me until just recently to really learn how to take control of my own life again instead of only theoretically knowing how to do it, but still somehow mentally stalling as if someone else is going to come hold my hand and tell me how to live my life. So I completely agree that kids need to be helped early on to learn the skills and have those things reinforced before they are dumped into the big pond called university. That is what makes the difference between a college graduate with a disability and a college drop out, or even a college survivor with a disability. Kate _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon May 18 03:03:24 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 20:03:24 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration In-Reply-To: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> Message-ID: <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra time accommodations if it is at all possible. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration > Hello all, > Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany any > non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a disability) > here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law > schools: > > "Dear Colleague: > This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard timing > conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The nonstandard > test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test > date > as the corresponding standard administration. > Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing > conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of > this > score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. The > LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services > explain: > LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated > conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard > conditions. > Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated forms, > accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's > scores > from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken > under > standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the > LSAT > should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted > once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a > one-day > multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school > course work and examinations." > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Haben Girma > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a > university's student body is disabled? > > Haben > > James Pepper wrote: >> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does >> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is > both >> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not >> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a >> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > students >> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they >> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be > considered >> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is >> not >> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of >> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, >> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. >> But >> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a >> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be >> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of >> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a > lot >> more than non disabled. >> >> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they >> have gotten away with it since 1973. >> >> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept > the >> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but >> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. >> >> James Pepper >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 > 0yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon May 18 03:11:23 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 20:11:23 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <20090517121639.GC4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <93D41DC9073F4A298A1BE77DF92B9C50@spike> <20090517121639.GC4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: that's the point when all else has failed and you have your documentation it becomes litigation time. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > Chuck, > > I'd say lack of preparation and acquisition of skills needed for college > accounts for a fair bit, but sometimes it just doesn't matter what you > bring to the game. Sometimes, the game's been rigged, and you may not > know about it until you've invested yourself. > > There are few coping skills that will help you if you become subject to > institutionalized discrimination, the subjective and reactive application > of unwritten policies, and vicious gossip and character assassination. > With strong social support, tenacity in abundance, very strong skills, and > the grace of God, you might survive. > > That's what I've been dealing with. Of course, anyone who knows me can > tell you that I am a born fighter. I don't give up. More importantly, if > I have to go through it, I'm going to make sure that nobody else ever has > to. And yet, even I have been ready to walk away a few times. I can > promise you that anyone else would have. I've learned that many people > have in the past. Not one person with a disability has survived my > program in six years. > > Sometimes, it just doesn't matter what you do, how you do it, or what > skills you've got. If your faculty are determined to see you fail because > you are blind, there's not much you can do until the damage is already > done. > > I don't know how we can prepare people for that, except to have them read > lots of early Federation history and all of Dr. Jernigan's more militant > speeches. *grin* I'm not certain it'll help, but it's the best > suggestion I've got. > > Joseph > > > On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 11:06:09PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >> Being a product of public schools in the 60's where I was the only blind >> student and college and grad school in the 70's and 80's where >> accommodations were negotiated between myself and the professors on a >> large university campus. The bottom line was that blind and other >> disabled students learned how to solve their problems and how to function >> independently in all facets of their education and life or they failed. >> Basic coping skills both for academic and nonacademic survival are a >> needed prerequisite to college and work and reasonable accommodation >> through any legislation is not going to bring about an increase of >> success in college or the real world of employment. >> Chuck > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon May 18 03:29:24 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 20:29:24 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <96705BCEB573495385D168A2793EAEA3@StevePC> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><93D41DC9073F4A298A1BE77DF92B9C50@spike> <96705BCEB573495385D168A2793EAEA3@StevePC> Message-ID: I had the same experiences with them and as a result was able to develop more of a rapport with some of them which came in handy later in my professional life. I did get accommodation from one in grad school when I had typed a paper on a typewriter with a cartridge ribbon that I did not know had run out mid way through the paper. Therefore, for part of the paper the only thing that showed was impressions. The professor had his secretary write it in from the impressions under the light as it looked like a stencil so I did not have to rewrite it. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 7:31 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > When I was in college and graduate school, I contacted all my professors > and asked them what books would be used in their classes. I also told > them I was blind and requested they allow me to use a tape recorder for > notes. In addition, I usually requested a meeting prior to classes > starting just to introduce myself to them. If a problem arose during the > semester, we were able to work it out. Kids today rely on others to solve > their problems with professors. I got to know my professors on a level > which made it possible for us to work together. > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 2:06 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > >> Being a product of public schools in the 60's where I was the only blind >> student and college and grad school in the 70's and 80's where >> accommodations were negotiated between myself and the professors on a >> large >> university campus. The bottom line was that blind and other disabled >> students learned how to solve their problems and how to function >> independently in all facets of their education and life or they failed. >> Basic coping skills both for academic and nonacademic survival are a >> needed >> prerequisite to college and work and reasonable accommodation through any >> legislation is not going to bring about an increase of success in college >> or >> the real world of employment. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "David Andrews" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 8:05 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >>> Let me start by saying this is just my opinion. I also will say I work >>> for a rehab agency. I also monitor lots of lists here, and see stories >>> from all over the country. I think the bigger problem is that many >>> students don't have the skills to succeed, not that they aren't getting >>> enough or the right accommodations. People can't take notes >>> independently, can't read Braille, can't travel independently, don't >>> know >>> how to use human readers, and on and on. And some of the reason for >>> that >>> is accommodations to willingly granted. >>> >>> It would be interesting to see the failure rate back in the 60's and >>> 70;'s >>> before we had ADA etc. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> At 11:39 AM 5/16/2009, you wrote: >>>>I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg >>>>problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish >>>>college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because >>>>they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I >>>>think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to >>>>pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed >>>>institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do >>>>more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. >>>>It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the >>>>two factors here. >>>>Jim McCarthy >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >>>>Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM >>>>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>>> >>>>Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's >>>>fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled >>>>students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the >>>>various demands placed on them by being in college and not being >>>>prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of >>>>reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some >>>>responsibility for the completion of their course of study. >>>>Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general >>>>college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. >>>>Chuck >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "James Pepper" >>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM >>>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>>> >>>> >>>> > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams >>>> > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they >>>> > inform >>>> >>>> > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think >>>> > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled >>>> > and >>>> >>>> > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled >>>> > or >>>> >>>> > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>>> > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >>>> > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you >>>> > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to >>>> > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating >>>> > from >>>> >>>> > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled >>>> > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to >>>> > handle >>>> >>>> > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the >>>> > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot >>>> > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good >>>> > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your >>>> > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. >>>> > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students >>>> > who >>>> >>>> > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more >>>> > than non disabled. >>>> > >>>> > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, >>>> > they have gotten away with it since 1973. >>>> > >>>> > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges >>>> > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the >>>> > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the >>>> > numbers they accept. >>>> > >>>> > James Pepper >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > blindlaw mailing list >>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> > blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s >>>> > bcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>blindlaw mailing list >>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>blindlaw: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf >>>>b.org >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>blindlaw mailing list >>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>blindlaw: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >>>> >>>> >>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>>>signature database 4080 (20090515) __________ >>>> >>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >>>> >>>>http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 > 17:05:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon May 18 03:44:01 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 20:44:01 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <82861DB6AF504E62805E41613A8118C1@spike> Unfortunately this mistake is made often by parents and school districts. School districts in many instances operate on the premise of what is most expedient for the district is best for the student although this is not the law. Unfortunately, many parents of blind children are the child's own worst enemy as they are over-protective and guilt-ridden over their child's blindness. When growing up I was forced by my parents to advocate for myself but I was well aware of the struggles that many of my friends that were blind whent through due to over-protective families and noncompliant school distrticts. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Thegreat" To: Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 12:10 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Just my two cents on this topic... I ended up finally losing all my vision in junior high school after a gradual loss over the years. As soon as large print books were no longer an option for me that particular year, I was essentialy forced into a situation where I was not allowed to take the initiative to help myself--I wasn't given any options or say in how to handle anything that came up. My parents, teachers, and guidance counselors took over and didn't include me in their meetings. They knew what was best for me, supposedly. I was labeled as a "bad" kid at the time because I really rebelled against the control they took over my life. I had always been a very autonomous, creative kid and I didn't like how they were handling things. After a year of fighting a one-woman battle against all those adults who "knew better" they finally mentally and emotionally cornered me and I had no way out except to back down and allow them to do what they wanted. It was difficult because I really honestly lost my sense of empowerment and autonomy from that point through the end of high school. That particular year in junior high was a really, really intense year, and they would not allow me to be a part of my own life transition and resolve. I was about 13 at the time and a perfect age to be a part of the solution to the dilemma. I never have been certain why they taught me to solely rely on an aide who took notes for me, communicated with my teachers for me, and read my homework to me. I wanted to learn the skills of using tape recorders, laptop, and all the like in order to be independent, but I was literally held back from doing that by the people who should have been promoting that type of initiative in me. Once I got to college, I didn't have too much difficulty taking initiative, but at that point the sense of insecurity, doubt and overall powerlessness that the whole junior high and high school experience had etched into me, really reeked havoc in all areas of my life. I felt less able, less creative, less empowered and less of a lot of things. I managed to get through purely on my type A, perfectionistic drive, but college was honestly a blur and it isn't a terribly great and memorable time in my life. It's taken me until just recently to really learn how to take control of my own life again instead of only theoretically knowing how to do it, but still somehow mentally stalling as if someone else is going to come hold my hand and tell me how to live my life. So I completely agree that kids need to be helped early on to learn the skills and have those things reinforced before they are dumped into the big pond called university. That is what makes the difference between a college graduate with a disability and a college drop out, or even a college survivor with a disability. Kate _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon May 18 08:16:03 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 01:16:03 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration In-Reply-To: <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> Message-ID: <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> I don't see that as entirely practical. The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they can do things they cannot. I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing on the "real world". Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on practice exams. Joseph On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: > It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra > time accommodations if it is at all possible. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" > > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSATadministration > > >> Hello all, >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany any >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a disability) >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >> schools: >> >> "Dear Colleague: >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard timing >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The nonstandard >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test >> date >> as the corresponding standard administration. >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of >> this >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. The >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >> explain: >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >> conditions. >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated forms, >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >> scores >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >> under >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the >> LSAT >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >> one-day >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >> course work and examinations." >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >> university's student body is disabled? >> >> Haben >> >> James Pepper wrote: >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is >> both >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >> students >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >> considered >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >>> is not >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. >>> But >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a >> lot >>> more than non disabled. >>> >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >>> >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept >> the >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. >>> >>> James Pepper >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >> 0yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon May 18 08:42:07 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 01:42:07 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: <20090517121639.GC4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <20090518084207.GJ4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> In a nutshell, we're talking about student teaching with every school district within reach having been "warned" about me and the "legal issues" surrounding me. None are willing to offer me a field placement as a result. (I can prove the action in one district, a pattern response from all districts, and a specific explanation as to why I am unwelcome in one of them.) I've been told by the DOE Office for Civil Rights that as long as I have received "passing" grades, it is essentially impossible to prove damages, despite the fact that I'll not be accepted into any field placements as a student teacher, and the districts will refuse to hire me. Add that to the fact that it's a state university and there are tort limitations. One attorney expressed interest. He wanted either $450/hr plus expenses in advance, or expenses in advance plus about 70-80% on contingency. He would begin by filing lawsuits against several people and entities that had neither knowledge of nor responsibility for what had happened, in addition to the university. The net effect would be to alienate all support I had (including the NFB) and end any chance of educating the university so that similar abuse did not happen to others. The amount of money I would receive from the suit would be less than the cost of tuition, let alone my financial aid loans. In addition, I would still be unable to be employed in the field and with no additional training. I concluded this litigator's top priority was not justice, and I declined his offer of representation. As I said, sometimes the system is rigged. Joseph On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:11:23PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: > that's the point when all else has failed and you have your documentation > it becomes litigation time. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 5:16 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > >> Chuck, >> >> I'd say lack of preparation and acquisition of skills needed for >> college accounts for a fair bit, but sometimes it just doesn't matter >> what you bring to the game. Sometimes, the game's been rigged, and you >> may not know about it until you've invested yourself. >> >> There are few coping skills that will help you if you become subject to >> institutionalized discrimination, the subjective and reactive >> application of unwritten policies, and vicious gossip and character >> assassination. With strong social support, tenacity in abundance, very >> strong skills, and the grace of God, you might survive. >> >> That's what I've been dealing with. Of course, anyone who knows me can >> tell you that I am a born fighter. I don't give up. More importantly, >> if I have to go through it, I'm going to make sure that nobody else >> ever has to. And yet, even I have been ready to walk away a few times. >> I can promise you that anyone else would have. I've learned that many >> people have in the past. Not one person with a disability has survived >> my program in six years. >> >> Sometimes, it just doesn't matter what you do, how you do it, or what >> skills you've got. If your faculty are determined to see you fail >> because you are blind, there's not much you can do until the damage is >> already done. >> >> I don't know how we can prepare people for that, except to have them >> read lots of early Federation history and all of Dr. Jernigan's more >> militant speeches. *grin* I'm not certain it'll help, but it's the >> best suggestion I've got. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 11:06:09PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >>> Being a product of public schools in the 60's where I was the only >>> blind student and college and grad school in the 70's and 80's where >>> accommodations were negotiated between myself and the professors on a >>> large university campus. The bottom line was that blind and other >>> disabled students learned how to solve their problems and how to >>> function independently in all facets of their education and life or >>> they failed. Basic coping skills both for academic and nonacademic >>> survival are a needed prerequisite to college and work and reasonable >>> accommodation through any legislation is not going to bring about an >>> increase of success in college or the real world of employment. >>> Chuck >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From b75205 at gmail.com Mon May 18 17:34:43 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 12:34:43 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <20090518084207.GJ4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <20090517121639.GC4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> <20090518084207.GJ4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: When I was in college I had to take a giant tape recorder with me that was about half the size of a modern backpack as it was one of the first cassette recorders. One of the professors was afraid of "Big Brother" and didn't wantme recording his class for notes. And I was perfectly prepared to remember everything but it took the geology professor, who used to be a marine drill sergeant who went up to the professor and just said to him, "what are you doing?" But I know of one college near me where the staff has the attitude that once your are blind, that's it. They just recently hired their first blind employee. they have a staff of over 1100 people. When I was in High School I was in a wheel chair, and the shool claimed it was accessible because it was set in a hill and every entrance went out onto a part of the hill. Of course there were stairs you had to get over but somewhere on each level was one direct way out of the building without a staircase. Anyway the "ramps" were pavement applied to the hill. And of course this was after the Rehabilitation Act so they were required to make the ramps. The ramp from the parking lot to the first floor was outside (in New Jersey) and I was expected to wheel myself up the ramp which was 150 feet long and about 50 feet high. So I complained and the President of the Board of Education said that he would be able to roll me up the ramp, no problem. So I dared him and he got out there and couldn't do it, not only that, but he lost control of me and fortunately I was able to stop. At the top the top of the hill the ramp led to a staircase but there was more of the ramp going up into the hill and that was an incline of about 70 degrees. Then it leveled off and I had to roll around the baseball field to find the entrance of the building. I was expected to do this in the snow. The solution was that I had to use crutches on the staircases and the teachers would let me out of class early so I could haul myself up the staircase. Years later a judge ordered them to build 3 elevators because they took out the baseball field and built a town swimming pool and they noticed that the school was not up to specs for ADA. That was in the 90s when they put in the elevator. James Pepper On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 3:42 AM, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > In a nutshell, we're talking about student teaching with every school > district within reach having been "warned" about me and the "legal issues" > surrounding me. None are willing to offer me a field placement as a result. > (I can prove the action in one district, a pattern response from all > districts, and a specific explanation as to why I am unwelcome in one of > them.) > > I've been told by the DOE Office for Civil Rights that as long as I have > received "passing" grades, it is essentially impossible to prove damages, > despite the fact that I'll not be accepted into any field placements as a > student teacher, and the districts will refuse to hire me. > > Add that to the fact that it's a state university and there are tort > limitations. One attorney expressed interest. He wanted either $450/hr > plus expenses in advance, or expenses in advance plus about 70-80% on > contingency. He would begin by filing lawsuits against several people and > entities that had neither knowledge of nor responsibility for what had > happened, in addition to the university. > > The net effect would be to alienate all support I had (including the NFB) > and end any chance of educating the university so that similar abuse did not > happen to others. The amount of money I would receive from the suit would > be less than the cost of tuition, let alone my financial aid loans. In > addition, I would still be unable to be employed in the field and with no > additional training. > > I concluded this litigator's top priority was not justice, and I declined > his offer of representation. > > As I said, sometimes the system is rigged. > > Joseph > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:11:23PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: > >> that's the point when all else has failed and you have your documentation >> it becomes litigation time. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" < >> carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 5:16 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >> Chuck, >>> >>> I'd say lack of preparation and acquisition of skills needed for college >>> accounts for a fair bit, but sometimes it just doesn't matter what you bring >>> to the game. Sometimes, the game's been rigged, and you may not know about >>> it until you've invested yourself. >>> >>> There are few coping skills that will help you if you become subject to >>> institutionalized discrimination, the subjective and reactive application of >>> unwritten policies, and vicious gossip and character assassination. With >>> strong social support, tenacity in abundance, very strong skills, and the >>> grace of God, you might survive. >>> >>> That's what I've been dealing with. Of course, anyone who knows me can >>> tell you that I am a born fighter. I don't give up. More importantly, if I >>> have to go through it, I'm going to make sure that nobody else ever has to. >>> And yet, even I have been ready to walk away a few times. I can promise >>> you that anyone else would have. I've learned that many people have in the >>> past. Not one person with a disability has survived my program in six >>> years. >>> >>> Sometimes, it just doesn't matter what you do, how you do it, or what >>> skills you've got. If your faculty are determined to see you fail because >>> you are blind, there's not much you can do until the damage is already done. >>> >>> I don't know how we can prepare people for that, except to have them read >>> lots of early Federation history and all of Dr. Jernigan's more militant >>> speeches. *grin* I'm not certain it'll help, but it's the best suggestion >>> I've got. >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> >>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 11:06:09PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >>> >>>> Being a product of public schools in the 60's where I was the only blind >>>> student and college and grad school in the 70's and 80's where >>>> accommodations were negotiated between myself and the professors on a large >>>> university campus. The bottom line was that blind and other disabled >>>> students learned how to solve their problems and how to function >>>> independently in all facets of their education and life or they failed. >>>> Basic coping skills both for academic and nonacademic survival are a needed >>>> prerequisite to college and work and reasonable accommodation through any >>>> legislation is not going to bring about an increase of success in college or >>>> the real world of employment. >>>> Chuck >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> > >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From mar.cra at comcast.net Mon May 18 17:41:15 2009 From: mar.cra at comcast.net (Craig R. Anderson) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 17:41:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2135024384.9070671242668475415.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Dave, You're absolutely right. A test-taker with a disability can legitimately ask that the administrators reasonably accommodate that disability. But it's scarcely reasonable, for instance, to insist that you be provided more time to complete the LSAT than anyone else gets simply because you're blind. Such a request indicates nothing more nor less than that you believe blindness has rendered you inherently incapable of performing as well as your peers with better vision. Surely this runs counter to everything the disability rights movement stands for. craig ----- David Andrews wrote: > Let me start by saying this is just my opinion. I also will say I > work for a rehab agency. I also monitor lots of lists here, and see > stories from all over the country. I think the bigger problem is > that many students don't have the skills to succeed, not that they > aren't getting enough or the right accommodations. People can't take > notes independently, can't read Braille, can't travel independently, > don't know how to use human readers, and on and on. And some of the > reason for that is accommodations to willingly granted. > > It would be interesting to see the failure rate back in the 60's and > 70;'s before we had ADA etc. > > Dave > > At 11:39 AM 5/16/2009, you wrote: > >I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg > >problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish > >college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because > >they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I > >think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to > >pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed > >institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do > >more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. > >It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the > >two factors here. > >Jim McCarthy > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > >Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM > >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > >Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's > >fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled > >students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the > >various demands placed on them by being in college and not being > >prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of > >reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some > >responsibility for the completion of their course of study. > >Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general > >college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. > >Chuck > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "James Pepper" > >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > > > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > > > > > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think > > > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > > > > > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > > > > > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > > > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > > > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from > > > > > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > > > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle > > > > > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > > > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot > > > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > > > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > > > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > > > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > > > > > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > > > than non disabled. > > > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > > > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > > > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > > > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > > > numbers they accept. > > > > > > James Pepper > > > _______________________________________________ > > > blindlaw mailing list > > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > > > bcglobal.net > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf > >b.org > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >for blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > > > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > >signature database 4080 (20090515) __________ > > > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > > >http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast.net From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon May 18 18:56:33 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 13:56:33 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Roundabout showdown: Disability rights attorney says legal fight coming in Wisconsin, La Crosse Tribune, May 10, 2009 Message-ID: Link: http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?index=0&did=1705712541&SrchMode=1&sid=1&Fmt=3&VInst=PROD&VType=PQD&RQT=309&VName=PQD&TS=1242419075&clientId=11925 Text: Roundabout showdown: Disability rights attorney says legal fight coming in Wisconsin Chris Hubbuch La Crosse Tribune, Wisconsin May 10--They have tried political maneuvering, a referendum, even recall elections. Now opponents of traffic roundabouts in Prairie du Chien have a new weapon: a blind attorney from Michigan who says Wisconsin is heading for a legal showdown if it doesn't back off plans to build roundabouts. Richard Bernstein, who specializes in disability rights cases, has battled roundabouts in his home state -- and threatened lawsuits in Wisconsin -- on the grounds they violate the federal Americans with Disabilities Act. Blind people who rely on their ears to detect breaks in traffic flow can't easily navigate them. Bernstein says the constant flow of traffic also puts senior citizens and children at risk. "It's like 'Frogger,'" he said. Proponents, including highway engineers, point to studies that show roundabouts reduce crashes, injuries and fatalities. "Statistics indicate they are a safer intersection for pedestrians in general and far safer for vehicles," said Pat Fleming, standards development engineer for the Wisconsin Department of Transportation. While they are safer for motorists, roundabouts present problems for pedestrians who can't see. Research on pedestrian safety in roundabouts is limited, but a study published in the Journal of Transportation Engineering found blind pedestrians had trouble crossing and stepped in front of oncoming traffic at an unacceptably high rate. Bernstein is more blunt: "A blind person cannot cross a roundabout. Period. You cannot do it." A solution in the works The Wisconsin DOT has built 43 roundabouts on state highways since 2004. It has 190 in the planning or construction phase and estimates about 45 others have been built by county or municipal governments. Bernstein says a legal battle is inevitable if the state continues to replace traditional intersections with the circles. But a possible solution is already in the works. the U.S. Access Board, the federal agency that determines accessibility guidelines for people with disabilities, is in the process of adopting standards that recommend pedestrian-activated signals at all multi-lane roundabouts, such as the ones proposed in Prairie du Chien. Lois Thibault, coordinator of research for the Access Board, said the Justice Department is expected to adopt the standards by the end of the year. Once adopted, the nonbinding standards will provide states legal protection against ADA suits, Thibault said. Those that don't follow them could be forced to prove in court that their projects are accessible. The DOT's plans do not call for crossing signals. Fleming said while the state always incorporates wheelchair-accessible curbs, it would be impractical to make such accommodations for the blind at every intersection. Instead, Fleming said the department makes accommodations as necessary. He said he was unaware of any visually impaired users on the Prairie du Chien corridor, although Mayor Karl Steiner said there are two such people in the area. Disability advocates say public facilities should be accessible to everyone. "It's very hard for (traffic engineers) to wrap their minds around the idea that a blind person might need to use this intersection," Thibault said. A $500,000 problem In 2003, Prairie du Chien's Common Council approved reconstruction plans for three roundabouts on Marquette Road, and the DOT has said the city could be on the hook for up to $500,000 in design fees if it changes plans. Steiner, a vocal opponent of the plans, heard that Bernstein had been successful in fighting roundabouts and contacted him, although it's unclear what immediate role the attorney will play. Bernstein, who said his disability rights work is all pro bono, has argued one federal case against roundabouts in Michigan. This spring, a judge ordered Oakland County to install traffic control signals -- at an estimated cost of $500,000 each -- at two roundabouts and to test whether they make the roads safe for disabled pedestrians. If not, Bernstein said, the judge could order the county to build bridges or tunnels or tear out the roundabouts. For Prairie du Chien or other municipalities to move forward before those studies are concluded is irresponsible, Bernstein said. This is not the first attempt to block the roundabouts in Prairie du Chien. Last summer, after the council voted down Steiner's effort to scrap the roundabout plans, a citizen group collected more than enough signatures for a referendum to ban roundabouts, but the question was struck from the ballot because of wording. The group also mounted an effort to recall five aldermen over their roundabout support. Only two of the 12 council members have consistently voted against roundabouts. Steiner says he's just trying to do the will of the people, most of whom he believes oppose roundabouts. Green Bay roundabouts In March, the Green Bay City Council voted to scrap plans for six roundabouts it had earlier approved for a one-mile stretch of Military Avenue. Michigan disability rights attorney Richard Bernstein addressed the council about the problems roundabouts present for blind people and said he threatened a suit if the city went ahead with its plans, although Mayor Jim Schmitt downplayed Bernstein's role in the council's decision. Schmitt said the project was too ambitious for an already developed area, and the city didn't have enough time to assuage fears. "I believe in roundabouts. They have great benefits," Schmitt said. "I hope (the decision) doesn't negatively affect roundabouts in other communities." Credit: La Crosse Tribune, Wis. From bspiry at comcast.net Mon May 18 20:21:35 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 13:21:35 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in June. Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about attending any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode well for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances for success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to be successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the mix... that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission that you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those outcomes, not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard designed only with sighted test takers in mind. Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task in the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of functioning in the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin a cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is part of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the real professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice and training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn some bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and with a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must have to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in the real world. Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are probably plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in the skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law school.. by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is that just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other "by the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as hell doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the LSAT due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that person is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations for the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. Bill ----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration I don't see that as entirely practical. The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they can do things they cannot. I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing on the "real world". Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on practice exams. Joseph On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: > It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra > time accommodations if it is at all possible. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" > > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSATadministration > > >> Hello all, >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany any >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a disability) >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >> schools: >> >> "Dear Colleague: >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard timing >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The nonstandard >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test >> date >> as the corresponding standard administration. >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of >> this >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. The >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >> explain: >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >> conditions. >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated forms, >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >> scores >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >> under >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the >> LSAT >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >> one-day >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >> course work and examinations." >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >> university's student body is disabled? >> >> Haben >> >> James Pepper wrote: >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is >> both >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >> students >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >> considered >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >>> is not >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. >>> But >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a >> lot >>> more than non disabled. >>> >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >>> >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept >> the >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. >>> >>> James Pepper >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >> 0yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Mon May 18 21:18:55 2009 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 16:18:55 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Roundabout showdown: Disability rights attorney says legal fight coming in Wisconsin, La Crosse Tribune, May 10, 2009 References: Message-ID: Hello: Don't know if U.S. roundabouts use their centers, but in London, the entrances to the Tube (subway) are located in the centers of some roundabouts. Regards, Robert From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon May 18 23:25:14 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:25:14 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration In-Reply-To: <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> Message-ID: <334494EF307E408B96B24A3E5F349024@StevePC> Well, you talk to us after you get the results. Are you using Braille, audio or large print. Steve----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Spiry" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration > I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in June. > Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school > regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about attending > any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability > based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. > Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode > well > for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances > for > success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to > be > successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the mix... > that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. > > As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to > complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission that > you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely > preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those > outcomes, > not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard > designed only with sighted test takers in mind. > Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task in > the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must > satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of functioning > in > the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin a > cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is > part > of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our > terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the real > professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those > battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice and > training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear > that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted > examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn > some > bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and > with > a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must > have > to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in > the > real world. > > Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on > different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are > probably > plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in the > skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law > school.. > by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out > there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally > unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is > that > just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other > "by > the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other > accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as > hell > doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the > LSAT > due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that > person > is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations > for > the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. > > Bill > > ----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSATadministration > > I don't see that as entirely practical. > > The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be > higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the > test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it > depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. > > One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed > to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe > they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they > can do things they cannot. > > I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you > try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you > are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be > experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but > don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the > LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an > artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing > on the "real world". > > Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs > fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on > practice exams. > > Joseph > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >> It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra >> time accommodations if it is at all possible. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" >> >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >> LSATadministration >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany >>> any >>> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a >>> disability) >>> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >>> schools: >>> >>> "Dear Colleague: >>> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard > timing >>> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The >>> nonstandard >>> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test >>> date >>> as the corresponding standard administration. >>> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >>> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of >>> this >>> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. > The >>> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >>> explain: >>> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >>> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >>> conditions. >>> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated > forms, >>> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >>> scores >>> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >>> under >>> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the >>> LSAT >>> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted >>> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >>> one-day >>> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >>> course work and examinations." >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>> >>> >>> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >>> university's student body is disabled? >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> James Pepper wrote: >>>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > does >>>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >>>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is >>> both >>>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not >>>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is > a >>>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >>> students >>>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they >>>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >>> considered >>>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >>>> is not >>>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of >>>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with > respect, >>>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. >>>> But >>>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into >>>> a >>>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be >>>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >>>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of >>>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a >>> lot >>>> more than non disabled. >>>> >>>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > they >>>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >>>> >>>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept >>> the >>>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, >>>> but >>>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. >>>> >>>> James Pepper >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >>> 0yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g > mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.33/2120 - Release Date: 05/18/09 06:28:00 From bspiry at comcast.net Tue May 19 01:14:01 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 18:14:01 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration In-Reply-To: <334494EF307E408B96B24A3E5F349024@StevePC> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> <334494EF307E408B96B24A3E5F349024@StevePC> Message-ID: <001b01c9d81f$188b7bf0$49a273d0$@net> You're right, I am speaking from the perspective of someone who hasn't taken the darned thing yet, but I'm also looking at it from the perspective of someone who has been a successful working professional for a long time. One thing that is very clear from my experience is that overcoming a disability is all about playing to our strengths, and not getting over focused with our limitations. Trying to ignore or conceal the need for an accommodation based on a concern that others may "judge" that need as a weakness is an example of bogging down on the limitation. People with a disability must indeed earn respect through hard work and competency, but we should not unnecessarily punish ourselves by trying to pummel our way through a barrier like an artificial time restriction when an accommodation can allow us to roll past it and perform based on our strengths. As to my accommodations... I'll be working with a sighted reader for the test, I'll be permitted to use my laptop for the writing sample as well as for notes in all the multiple choice sections. I will be permitted double time (70 minutes) for each section, with some break time between sections. Based on the work I've done thus far with readers preparing and practicing for the test its clear that 70 minutes will be a real push for some sections such as the analytical reasoning ("games" section) and reading comprehension with longer passages. This is mostly due to the much slower technique of using a sighted reader which is an approach I haven't had to use much at all in the past 15 years or more in my professional work. Computer based access to the exam would be much faster, but LSAC would not even entertain it when I brought it up. It is interesting that this spring LSAC has introduced a practice module on their website that includes a "LSATWise" practice test that is fairly accessible with a screen reader. It seems it would be quite easy to provide the LSAT in a similar format for a blind person, particularly for this generation of blind folks who depend upon the screen reader technology for most information access and writing. The fact that I have to do this test using an outdated approach rather than a more contemporary and effective computer based approach will certainly cost me some points in my final score. That fact doesn't make me happy, and it also drives home the fact that the LSAT is not necessarily a reflection on how effective someone will be as a law student if permitted to use the right techniques. The push for significant improvement in the area of accommodation by LSAC for the LSAT is completely appropriate. Frankly the hoops I had to go through to get the accommodations I was granted was excessive, and generally the tone of LSAC's responses in the request process could make you feel like a second class citizen just for asking. My advice to a blind pre law student facing this thing is to ask for what you need, don't be shamed into asking for less. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 4:25 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration Well, you talk to us after you get the results. Are you using Braille, audio or large print. Steve----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Spiry" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration > I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in June. > Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school > regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about attending > any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability > based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. > Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode > well > for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances > for > success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to > be > successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the mix... > that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. > > As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to > complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission that > you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely > preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those > outcomes, > not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard > designed only with sighted test takers in mind. > Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task in > the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must > satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of functioning > in > the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin a > cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is > part > of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our > terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the real > professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those > battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice and > training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear > that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted > examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn > some > bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and > with > a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must > have > to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in > the > real world. > > Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on > different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are > probably > plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in the > skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law > school.. > by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out > there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally > unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is > that > just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other > "by > the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other > accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as > hell > doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the > LSAT > due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that > person > is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations > for > the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. > > Bill > > ----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSATadministration > > I don't see that as entirely practical. > > The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be > higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the > test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it > depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. > > One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed > to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe > they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they > can do things they cannot. > > I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you > try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you > are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be > experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but > don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the > LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an > artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing > on the "real world". > > Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs > fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on > practice exams. > > Joseph > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >> It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra >> time accommodations if it is at all possible. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" >> >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >> LSATadministration >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany >>> any >>> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a >>> disability) >>> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >>> schools: >>> >>> "Dear Colleague: >>> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard > timing >>> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The >>> nonstandard >>> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test >>> date >>> as the corresponding standard administration. >>> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >>> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of >>> this >>> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. > The >>> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >>> explain: >>> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >>> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >>> conditions. >>> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated > forms, >>> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >>> scores >>> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >>> under >>> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the >>> LSAT >>> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted >>> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >>> one-day >>> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >>> course work and examinations." >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>> >>> >>> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >>> university's student body is disabled? >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> James Pepper wrote: >>>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > does >>>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >>>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is >>> both >>>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not >>>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is > a >>>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >>> students >>>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they >>>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >>> considered >>>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >>>> is not >>>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of >>>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with > respect, >>>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. >>>> But >>>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into >>>> a >>>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be >>>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >>>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of >>>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a >>> lot >>>> more than non disabled. >>>> >>>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > they >>>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >>>> >>>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept >>> the >>>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, >>>> but >>>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. >>>> >>>> James Pepper >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >>> 0yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g > mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.33/2120 - Release Date: 05/18/09 06:28:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From womankind at earthlink.net Tue May 19 02:44:38 2009 From: womankind at earthlink.net (Stephanie Ortoleva) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 22:44:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administrationgmail In-Reply-To: <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> Message-ID: Is there a screen reader friendly way to access gmail? Thank you. Stephanie From benkarpilow at gmail.com Tue May 19 03:22:11 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 20:22:11 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administrationgmail References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1><5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike><20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net><004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> Message-ID: I access my g mail account through outlook express, which is completely accessible as far as I can tell. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Ortoleva" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administrationgmail > Is there a screen reader friendly way to access gmail? > Thank you. > Stephanie > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From womankind at earthlink.net Tue May 19 03:48:37 2009 From: womankind at earthlink.net (Stephanie Ortoleva) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 23:48:37 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administrationgmail In-Reply-To: References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> Message-ID: Yes, but I was trying to figure out an easy, screen reader friendly way to access gmaiul on the web with screen readers and recall sometime someone had a suggestion as to how to do so. If anyone has suggestions, please let me know. Thank you. Stephanie Ortoleva 202.359.3045At 11:22 PM 5/18/2009, you wrote: >I access my g mail account through outlook express, which >is completely accessible as far as I can tell. > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Ortoleva" > >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:44 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany >non-standard LSAT administrationgmail > > >>Is there a screen reader friendly way to access gmail? >>Thank you. >>Stephanie >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>for blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >> > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/womankind%40earthlink.net From dandrews at visi.com Tue May 19 04:48:37 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 23:48:37 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administrationgmail In-Reply-To: References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> Message-ID: I believe there is a link to present you with a html view -- the other one says graphical view or something like that. The html view is quite accessible. Dave At 10:48 PM 5/18/2009, you wrote: >Yes, but I was trying to figure out an easy, screen reader friendly >way to access gmaiul on the web with screen readers and recall >sometime someone had a suggestion as to how to do so. > >If anyone has suggestions, please let me know. >Thank you. > >Stephanie Ortoleva >202.359.3045At 11:22 PM 5/18/2009, you wrote: >>I access my g mail account through outlook express, which >>is completely accessible as far as I can tell. >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Ortoleva" >> >>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:44 PM >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany >>non-standard LSAT administrationgmail >> >> >>>Is there a screen reader friendly way to access gmail? >>>Thank you. >>>Stephanie >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>blindlaw mailing list >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>for blindlaw: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>for blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/womankind%40earthlink.net > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4085 (20090519) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com > > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue May 19 05:42:26 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 22:42:26 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompanynon-standard LSATadministration In-Reply-To: <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1><5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <92B9205A5BFE42F58C47FE20C19ABD78@spike> the specific accommodations that I was referring to is the extra time factor. I actually took the LSAT about 35 years ago with a reader without extra time and did not do that badly. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompanynon-standard LSATadministration >I don't see that as entirely practical. > > The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be higher. > If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the test is designed > for you to fail without the accommodation because it depends upon visual > processing skills, you go right ahead. > > One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed to > learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe they > cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they can do > things they cannot. > > I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you try?" My > answer is that a test that determines whether or not you are deemed worthy > of a particular career is not the time to be experimenting. If you know > you can do it with the accommodation, but don't know if you could do it > without, take the accommodation for the LSAT. It's an artificial > environment with artificial rules and an artificial result. > Accommodations used therein have little bearing on the "real world". > > Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs fit > into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on practice > exams. > > Joseph > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >> It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra >> time accommodations if it is at all possible. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" >> >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >> LSATadministration >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany >>> any >>> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a >>> disability) >>> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >>> schools: >>> >>> "Dear Colleague: >>> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard >>> timing >>> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The >>> nonstandard >>> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test >>> date >>> as the corresponding standard administration. >>> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >>> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of >>> this >>> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. >>> The >>> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >>> explain: >>> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >>> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >>> conditions. >>> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated >>> forms, >>> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >>> scores >>> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >>> under >>> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the >>> LSAT >>> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted >>> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >>> one-day >>> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >>> course work and examinations." >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>> >>> >>> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >>> university's student body is disabled? >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> James Pepper wrote: >>>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams >>>> does >>>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >>>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is >>> both >>>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not >>>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is >>>> a >>>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >>> students >>>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they >>>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >>> considered >>>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is >>>> not >>>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of >>>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with >>>> respect, >>>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. >>>> But >>>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into >>>> a >>>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be >>>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >>>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of >>>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a >>> lot >>>> more than non disabled. >>>> >>>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, >>>> they >>>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >>>> >>>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept >>> the >>>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, >>>> but >>>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. >>>> >>>> James Pepper >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >>> 0yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From habnkid at aol.com Tue May 19 06:24:09 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 23:24:09 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration In-Reply-To: <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <4A125089.4060907@aol.com> Joseph, have you taken the LSAT? T. Joseph Carter wrote: > I don't see that as entirely practical. > > The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be > higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the test > is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it > depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. > > One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed to > learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe they > cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they can do > things they cannot. > > I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you > try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you are > deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be > experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but > don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the > LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an > artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing on > the "real world". > > Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs > fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on > practice exams. > > Joseph > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >> It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the >> extra time accommodations if it is at all possible. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" >> >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany >> non-standard LSATadministration >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will >>> accompany any >>> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a >>> disability) >>> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >>> schools: >>> >>> "Dear Colleague: >>> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard >>> timing >>> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The >>> nonstandard >>> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same >>> test date >>> as the corresponding standard administration. >>> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >>> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability >>> of this >>> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be >>> determined. The >>> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >>> explain: >>> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >>> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >>> conditions. >>> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated >>> forms, >>> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an >>> individual's scores >>> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests >>> taken under >>> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for >>> the LSAT >>> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be >>> granted >>> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >>> one-day >>> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >>> course work and examinations." >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>> >>> >>> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >>> university's student body is disabled? >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> James Pepper wrote: >>>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance >>>> exams does >>>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >>>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think >>>> it is >>> both >>>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not >>>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. >>>> It is a >>>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >>> students >>>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they >>>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >>> considered >>>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >>>> is not >>>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of >>>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with >>>> respect, >>>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of >>>> discriminiation. But >>>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get >>>> into a >>>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will >>>> probably be >>>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >>>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of >>>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the >>>> university a >>> lot >>>> more than non disabled. >>>> >>>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of >>>> profiling, they >>>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >>>> >>>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges >>>> accept >>> the >>>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the >>>> population, but >>>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. >>>> >>>> James Pepper >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >>> >>> 0yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Tue May 19 06:50:22 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 23:50:22 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration In-Reply-To: <4A125089.4060907@aol.com> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A125089.4060907@aol.com> Message-ID: <20090519065022.GI13019@yumi.bluecherry.net> Only some practice exams. Joseph On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:24:09PM -0700, Haben Girma wrote: > Joseph, have you taken the LSAT? > > T. Joseph Carter wrote: >> I don't see that as entirely practical. >> >> The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be >> higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the test >> is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it >> depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. >> >> One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed to >> learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe they >> cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they can do >> things they cannot. >> >> I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you try?" >> My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you are deemed >> worthy of a particular career is not the time to be experimenting. If >> you know you can do it with the accommodation, but don't know if you >> could do it without, take the accommodation for the LSAT. It's an >> artificial environment with artificial rules and an artificial result. >> Accommodations used therein have little bearing on the "real world". >> >> Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs >> fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on >> practice exams. >> >> Joseph From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Tue May 19 07:01:54 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 00:01:54 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Roundabout showdown: Disability rights attorney says legal fight coming in Wisconsin, La Crosse Tribune, May 10, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090519070154.GJ13019@yumi.bluecherry.net> This blind person can cross a roundabout just fine. It took careful effort to learn the skills needed, but they can be learned. Joseph On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 01:56:33PM -0500, Nightingale, Noel wrote: > >Link: >http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?index=0&did=1705712541&SrchMode=1&sid=1&Fmt=3&VInst=PROD&VType=PQD&RQT=309&VName=PQD&TS=1242419075&clientId=11925 >Text: >Roundabout showdown: Disability rights attorney says legal fight coming in Wisconsin >Chris Hubbuch >La Crosse Tribune, Wisconsin > >May 10--They have tried political maneuvering, a referendum, even recall elections. > >Now opponents of traffic roundabouts in Prairie du Chien have a new weapon: a blind attorney from Michigan who says Wisconsin is heading for a legal showdown if it doesn't back off plans to build roundabouts. > >Richard Bernstein, who specializes in disability rights cases, has battled roundabouts in his home state -- and threatened lawsuits in Wisconsin -- on the grounds they violate the federal Americans with Disabilities Act. > >Blind people who rely on their ears to detect breaks in traffic flow can't easily navigate them. Bernstein says the constant flow of traffic also puts senior citizens and children at risk. > >"It's like 'Frogger,'" he said. > >Proponents, including highway engineers, point to studies that show roundabouts reduce crashes, injuries and fatalities. > >"Statistics indicate they are a safer intersection for pedestrians in general and far safer for vehicles," said Pat Fleming, standards development engineer for the Wisconsin Department of Transportation. > >While they are safer for motorists, roundabouts present problems for pedestrians who can't see. > >Research on pedestrian safety in roundabouts is limited, but a study published in the Journal of Transportation Engineering found blind pedestrians had trouble crossing and stepped in front of oncoming traffic at an unacceptably high rate. > >Bernstein is more blunt: "A blind person cannot cross a roundabout. Period. You cannot do it." > >A solution in the works > >The Wisconsin DOT has built 43 roundabouts on state highways since 2004. It has 190 in the planning or construction phase and estimates about 45 others have been built by county or municipal governments. > >Bernstein says a legal battle is inevitable if the state continues to replace traditional intersections with the circles. But a possible solution is already in the works. > >the U.S. Access Board, the federal agency that determines accessibility guidelines for people with disabilities, is in the process of adopting standards that recommend pedestrian-activated signals at all multi-lane roundabouts, such as the ones proposed in Prairie du Chien. > >Lois Thibault, coordinator of research for the Access Board, said the Justice Department is expected to adopt the standards by the end of the year. > >Once adopted, the nonbinding standards will provide states legal protection against ADA suits, Thibault said. Those that don't follow them could be forced to prove in court that their projects are accessible. > >The DOT's plans do not call for crossing signals. > >Fleming said while the state always incorporates wheelchair-accessible curbs, it would be impractical to make such accommodations for the blind at every intersection. > >Instead, Fleming said the department makes accommodations as necessary. He said he was unaware of any visually impaired users on the Prairie du Chien corridor, although Mayor Karl Steiner said there are two such people in the area. > >Disability advocates say public facilities should be accessible to everyone. > >"It's very hard for (traffic engineers) to wrap their minds around the idea that a blind person might need to use this intersection," Thibault said. > >A $500,000 problem > >In 2003, Prairie du Chien's Common Council approved reconstruction plans for three roundabouts on Marquette Road, and the DOT has said the city could be on the hook for up to $500,000 in design fees if it changes plans. > >Steiner, a vocal opponent of the plans, heard that Bernstein had been successful in fighting roundabouts and contacted him, although it's unclear what immediate role the attorney will play. > >Bernstein, who said his disability rights work is all pro bono, has argued one federal case against roundabouts in Michigan. > >This spring, a judge ordered Oakland County to install traffic control signals -- at an estimated cost of $500,000 each -- at two roundabouts and to test whether they make the roads safe for disabled pedestrians. > >If not, Bernstein said, the judge could order the county to build bridges or tunnels or tear out the roundabouts. > >For Prairie du Chien or other municipalities to move forward before those studies are concluded is irresponsible, Bernstein said. > >This is not the first attempt to block the roundabouts in Prairie du Chien. > >Last summer, after the council voted down Steiner's effort to scrap the roundabout plans, a citizen group collected more than enough signatures for a referendum to ban roundabouts, but the question was struck from the ballot because of wording. > >The group also mounted an effort to recall five aldermen over their roundabout support. Only two of the 12 council members have consistently voted against roundabouts. > >Steiner says he's just trying to do the will of the people, most of whom he believes oppose roundabouts. > >Green Bay roundabouts > >In March, the Green Bay City Council voted to scrap plans for six roundabouts it had earlier approved for a one-mile stretch of Military Avenue. > >Michigan disability rights attorney Richard Bernstein addressed the council about the problems roundabouts present for blind people and said he threatened a suit if the city went ahead with its plans, although Mayor Jim Schmitt downplayed Bernstein's role in the council's decision. > >Schmitt said the project was too ambitious for an already developed area, and the city didn't have enough time to assuage fears. > >"I believe in roundabouts. They have great benefits," Schmitt said. "I hope (the decision) doesn't negatively affect roundabouts in other communities." > >Credit: La Crosse Tribune, Wis. > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From mar.cra at comcast.net Tue May 19 14:38:01 2009 From: mar.cra at comcast.net (Craig R. Anderson) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 14:38:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> Message-ID: <1682867415.9434251242743881924.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> You refer to the normal time limit for completing the LSAT as an arbitrary standard established with sighted examinees in mind. However there's not a dime's worth of difference between this time limit and any of the other deadlines which suffuse both the legal business and the rest of the real world. You suggest that in this context a blind person is entitled to demand relaxation of these deadlines because they reflect standards designed for the inherently more capable sighted population -- standards that are too high for the blind to be expected to meet. If that's what you're saying, I disagree. Craig ----- Bill Spiry wrote: > I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in June. > Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school > regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about attending > any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability > based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. > Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode well > for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances for > success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to be > successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the mix... > that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. > > As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to > complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission that > you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely > preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those outcomes, > not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard > designed only with sighted test takers in mind. > Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task in > the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must > satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of functioning in > the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin a > cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is part > of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our > terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the real > professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those > battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice and > training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear > that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted > examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn some > bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and with > a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must have > to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in the > real world. > > Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on > different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are probably > plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in the > skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law school.. > by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out > there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally > unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is that > just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other "by > the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other > accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as hell > doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the LSAT > due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that person > is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations for > the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. > > Bill > > ----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSATadministration > > I don't see that as entirely practical. > > The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be > higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the > test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it > depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. > > One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed > to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe > they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they > can do things they cannot. > > I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you > try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you > are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be > experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but > don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the > LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an > artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing > on the "real world". > > Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs > fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on > practice exams. > > Joseph > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: > > It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra > > time accommodations if it is at all possible. > > Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" > > > > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > > LSATadministration > > > > > >> Hello all, > >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany any > >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a disability) > >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law > >> schools: > >> > >> "Dear Colleague: > >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard > timing > >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The nonstandard > >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test > >> date > >> as the corresponding standard administration. > >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing > >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of > >> this > >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. > The > >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services > >> explain: > >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated > >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard > >> conditions. > >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated > forms, > >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's > >> scores > >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken > >> under > >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the > >> LSAT > >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted > >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a > >> one-day > >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school > >> course work and examinations." > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >> Behalf Of Haben Girma > >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM > >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > >> > >> > >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a > >> university's student body is disabled? > >> > >> Haben > >> > >> James Pepper wrote: > >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > does > >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is > >> both > >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is > a > >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > >> students > >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be > >> considered > >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation > >>> is not > >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with > respect, > >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. > >>> But > >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a > >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be > >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a > >> lot > >>> more than non disabled. > >>> > >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > they > >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. > >>> > >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept > >> the > >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but > >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > >>> > >>> James Pepper > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 > >> 0yahoo.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g > mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast.net From angie.matney at gmail.com Tue May 19 15:47:25 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 11:47:25 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <1682867415.9434251242743881924.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> <1682867415.9434251242743881924.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4a12d493.09025a0a.1fbd.1ab8@mx.google.com> Hi, I would disagree that there's not a difference between the LSAC's time limit and time limits that exist in the real world. Also, as someone else pointed out, in "the real world," we are often not restricted to using inferior tools to get the job done. (Certainly, we are on occasion. But for many law-related tasks, we are able to use the technology and methods that work best for us.) The LSAC doesn't even let a blind person choose his or her own reader! That is far from realistic. Those of us who took Braille tests had to be approved for this accommodation before we could see practice tests that we could access, whereas sighted people can download a practice test from LSAC's web site without even registering to take the test. Again, this is not realistic. I think that many schools assume that if you get a particularly good score, it likely wasn't solely the result of a little extra time on the test. That seemed to be my experience. I believe my LSAT score actually was an asset on my application, since I did pretty well on the test. And finally, in none of my "real-world" jobs (including summer associateships with firms and a legal aid agency) have I ever had to request the same accommodations I needed for the LSAT. Best, Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Craig R. Anderson Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:38 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration You refer to the normal time limit for completing the LSAT as an arbitrary standard established with sighted examinees in mind. However there's not a dime's worth of difference between this time limit and any of the other deadlines which suffuse both the legal business and the rest of the real world. You suggest that in this context a blind person is entitled to demand relaxation of these deadlines because they reflect standards designed for the inherently more capable sighted population -- standards that are too high for the blind to be expected to meet. If that's what you're saying, I disagree. Craig ----- Bill Spiry wrote: > I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in June. > Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school > regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about attending > any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability > based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. > Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode well > for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances for > success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to be > successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the mix... > that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. > > As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to > complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission that > you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely > preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those outcomes, > not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard > designed only with sighted test takers in mind. > Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task in > the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must > satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of functioning in > the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin a > cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is part > of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our > terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the real > professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those > battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice and > training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear > that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted > examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn some > bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and with > a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must have > to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in the > real world. > > Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on > different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are probably > plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in the > skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law school.. > by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out > there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally > unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is that > just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other "by > the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other > accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as hell > doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the LSAT > due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that person > is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations for > the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. > > Bill > > ----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSATadministration > > I don't see that as entirely practical. > > The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be > higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the > test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it > depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. > > One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed > to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe > they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they > can do things they cannot. > > I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you > try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you > are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be > experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but > don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the > LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an > artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing > on the "real world". > > Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs > fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on > practice exams. > > Joseph > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: > > It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra > > time accommodations if it is at all possible. > > Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" > > > > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > > LSATadministration > > > > > >> Hello all, > >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany any > >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a disability) > >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law > >> schools: > >> > >> "Dear Colleague: > >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard > timing > >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The nonstandard > >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test > >> date > >> as the corresponding standard administration. > >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing > >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of > >> this > >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. > The > >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services > >> explain: > >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated > >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard > >> conditions. > >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated > forms, > >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's > >> scores > >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken > >> under > >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the > >> LSAT > >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted > >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a > >> one-day > >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school > >> course work and examinations." > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >> Behalf Of Haben Girma > >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM > >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > >> > >> > >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a > >> university's student body is disabled? > >> > >> Haben > >> > >> James Pepper wrote: > >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > does > >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is > >> both > >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is > a > >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > >> students > >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be > >> considered > >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation > >>> is not > >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with > respect, > >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. > >>> But > >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a > >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be > >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a > >> lot > >>> more than non disabled. > >>> > >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > they > >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. > >>> > >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept > >> the > >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but > >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > >>> > >>> James Pepper > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 > >> 0yahoo.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g > mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast. net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From habnkid at aol.com Tue May 19 18:54:50 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 11:54:50 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Message-ID: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> Good Morning, Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a reasonable accommodation under the ADA? Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. Haben From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Tue May 19 20:20:46 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 13:20:46 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <1682867415.9434251242743881924.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> <1682867415.9434251242743881924.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20090519202046.GU13019@yumi.bluecherry.net> If the LSAT measured what you do as a lawyer, this argument would have merit. It doesn't, which makes it a lousy way to determine who gets into law school. If it's harder for a blind person to do than a sighed person, it's an artificial barrier for us. Joseph On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 02:38:01PM +0000, Craig R. Anderson wrote: >You refer to the normal time limit for completing the LSAT as an arbitrary standard established with sighted examinees in mind. However there's not a dime's worth of difference between this time limit and any of the other deadlines which suffuse both the legal business and the rest of the real world. You suggest that in this context a blind person is entitled to demand relaxation of these deadlines because they reflect standards designed for the inherently more capable sighted population -- standards that are too high for the blind to be expected to meet. If that's what you're saying, I disagree. > >Craig >----- Bill Spiry wrote: >> I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in June. >> Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school >> regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about attending >> any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability >> based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. >> Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode well >> for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances for >> success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to be >> successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the mix... >> that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. >> >> As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to >> complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission that >> you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely >> preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those outcomes, >> not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard >> designed only with sighted test takers in mind. >> Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task in >> the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must >> satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of functioning in >> the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin a >> cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is part >> of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our >> terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the real >> professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those >> battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice and >> training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear >> that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted >> examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn some >> bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and with >> a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must have >> to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in the >> real world. >> >> Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on >> different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are probably >> plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in the >> skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law school.. >> by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out >> there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally >> unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is that >> just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other "by >> the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other >> accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as hell >> doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the LSAT >> due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that person >> is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations for >> the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. >> >> Bill >> >> ----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >> LSATadministration >> >> I don't see that as entirely practical. >> >> The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be >> higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the >> test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it >> depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. >> >> One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed >> to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe >> they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they >> can do things they cannot. >> >> I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you >> try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you >> are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be >> experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but >> don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the >> LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an >> artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing >> on the "real world". >> >> Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs >> fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on >> practice exams. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >> > It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra >> > time accommodations if it is at all possible. >> > Chuck >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" >> > >> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >> > LSATadministration >> > >> > >> >> Hello all, >> >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany any >> >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a disability) >> >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >> >> schools: >> >> >> >> "Dear Colleague: >> >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard >> timing >> >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The nonstandard >> >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test >> >> date >> >> as the corresponding standard administration. >> >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >> >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of >> >> this >> >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. >> The >> >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >> >> explain: >> >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >> >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >> >> conditions. >> >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated >> forms, >> >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >> >> scores >> >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >> >> under >> >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the >> >> LSAT >> >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted >> >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >> >> one-day >> >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >> >> course work and examinations." >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >> >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >> >> >> >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >> >> university's student body is disabled? >> >> >> >> Haben >> >> >> >> James Pepper wrote: >> >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams >> does >> >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >> >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is >> >> both >> >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not >> >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is >> a >> >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >> >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >> >> students >> >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they >> >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >> >> considered >> >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >> >>> is not >> >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of >> >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with >> respect, >> >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. >> >>> But >> >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a >> >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be >> >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >> >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of >> >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a >> >> lot >> >>> more than non disabled. >> >>> >> >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, >> they >> >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >> >>> >> >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept >> >> the >> >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but >> >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. >> >>> >> >>> James Pepper >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >>> >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >> >> 0yahoo.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g >> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast.net > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From benkarpilow at gmail.com Tue May 19 20:32:14 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 13:32:14 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> Message-ID: I used an audio cassette study guide ordered from RFB&D, though this may not be a viable option for you. I also worked with a tutor from the local law school, which I felt benefited me greatly. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:54 AM Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Good Morning, > > Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The > Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books > that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy of > the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton > Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a braille > copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer service woman > replied. There are many books currently unavailable in braille, but in the > case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this reality. Preparing for > the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best prep books in my most > comfortable reading media: braille. I left a message with the Editorial > staff asking for a braille copy or at least an electronic copy so I can > emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton Review be required to provide a > braille copy of their book, as a reasonable accommodation under the ADA? > > Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently > taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? > > p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. > > Haben > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From angie.matney at gmail.com Tue May 19 23:34:53 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 19:34:53 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> Message-ID: <4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> Hello Haben, Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good starting point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Haben Girma Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Good Morning, Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a reasonable accommodation under the ADA? Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. Haben _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From roddj12 at hotmail.com Wed May 20 01:03:32 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:03:32 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> <4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to enroll in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is not the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Hello Haben, > > Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the > ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I > believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good starting > point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Haben Girma > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > Good Morning, > > Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The > Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books > that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy > of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton > Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a > braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer > service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in > braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this > reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best > prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a > message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least > an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton > Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a > reasonable accommodation under the ADA? > > Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently > taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? > > p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. > > Haben > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > From rjs059 at peoplepc.com Wed May 20 02:53:04 2009 From: rjs059 at peoplepc.com (rjs059 at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 22:53:04 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Word varification Message-ID: <01cc01c9d8f6$199c5500$6a84fe04@rjige047kjawst> I would like to sign up for twitter, however, I'm using a screen reader, and they want me to do this word varification. Then they have something so you can listen to the words, but when you type them in, it says the words are incorrect. Is this being deceptive? RJ From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed May 20 04:47:32 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:47:32 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <1682867415.9434251242743881924.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1682867415.9434251242743881924.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <10D511CC4FD945C0834DBDBA36816F40@spike> I would have to agree. I am not aware of too many judges that would give blind lawyers extra time to prepare for court, nor does the calendaring deadlines or statute of limitations allow for extra time when filing paperwork if a blind lawyer is one of the litigants. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig R. Anderson" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration > You refer to the normal time limit for completing the LSAT as an arbitrary > standard established with sighted examinees in mind. However there's not > a dime's worth of difference between this time limit and any of the other > deadlines which suffuse both the legal business and the rest of the real > world. You suggest that in this context a blind person is entitled to > demand relaxation of these deadlines because they reflect standards > designed for the inherently more capable sighted population -- standards > that are too high for the blind to be expected to meet. If that's what > you're saying, I disagree. > > Craig > ----- Bill Spiry wrote: >> I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in >> June. >> Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school >> regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about attending >> any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability >> based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. >> Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode >> well >> for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances >> for >> success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to >> be >> successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the >> mix... >> that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. >> >> As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to >> complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission >> that >> you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely >> preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those >> outcomes, >> not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard >> designed only with sighted test takers in mind. >> Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task in >> the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must >> satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of functioning >> in >> the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin a >> cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is >> part >> of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our >> terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the real >> professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those >> battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice >> and >> training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear >> that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted >> examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn >> some >> bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and >> with >> a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must >> have >> to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in >> the >> real world. >> >> Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on >> different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are >> probably >> plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in the >> skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law >> school.. >> by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out >> there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally >> unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is >> that >> just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other >> "by >> the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other >> accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as >> hell >> doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the >> LSAT >> due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that >> person >> is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations >> for >> the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. >> >> Bill >> >> ----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >> LSATadministration >> >> I don't see that as entirely practical. >> >> The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be >> higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the >> test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it >> depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. >> >> One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed >> to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe >> they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they >> can do things they cannot. >> >> I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you >> try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you >> are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be >> experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but >> don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the >> LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an >> artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing >> on the "real world". >> >> Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs >> fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on >> practice exams. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >> > It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the >> > extra >> > time accommodations if it is at all possible. >> > Chuck >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" >> > >> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >> > LSATadministration >> > >> > >> >> Hello all, >> >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany >> >> any >> >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a >> >> disability) >> >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >> >> schools: >> >> >> >> "Dear Colleague: >> >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard >> timing >> >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The >> >> nonstandard >> >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same >> >> test >> >> date >> >> as the corresponding standard administration. >> >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >> >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability >> >> of >> >> this >> >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. >> The >> >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >> >> explain: >> >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >> >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >> >> conditions. >> >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated >> forms, >> >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >> >> scores >> >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >> >> under >> >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the >> >> LSAT >> >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be >> >> granted >> >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >> >> one-day >> >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >> >> course work and examinations." >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >> On >> >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >> >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >> >> >> >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >> >> university's student body is disabled? >> >> >> >> Haben >> >> >> >> James Pepper wrote: >> >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams >> does >> >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >> >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it >> >>> is >> >> both >> >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is >> >>> not >> >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It >> >>> is >> a >> >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >> >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >> >> students >> >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once >> >>> they >> >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >> >> considered >> >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >> >>> is not >> >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. >> >>> Of >> >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with >> respect, >> >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. >> >>> But >> >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get >> >>> into a >> >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably >> >>> be >> >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >> >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount >> >>> of >> >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university >> >>> a >> >> lot >> >>> more than non disabled. >> >>> >> >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, >> they >> >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >> >>> >> >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges >> >>> accept >> >> the >> >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, >> >>> but >> >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they >> >>> accept. >> >>> >> >>> James Pepper >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >>> >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >> >> 0yahoo.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g >> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From angie.matney at gmail.com Wed May 20 05:19:17 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 01:19:17 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <10D511CC4FD945C0834DBDBA36816F40@spike> References: <1682867415.9434251242743881924.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <10D511CC4FD945C0834DBDBA36816F40@spike> Message-ID: <4a1392d7.c5c2f10a.6352.ffffaab4@mx.google.com> Hi Chuck, Can you tell us what the format of the LSAT was when you took it? I heard it changed at some point in the 90s. Do you know if this is true? Re: Why the LSAT and legal work are not equivalent: See my last post. Best, Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:48 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration I would have to agree. I am not aware of too many judges that would give blind lawyers extra time to prepare for court, nor does the calendaring deadlines or statute of limitations allow for extra time when filing paperwork if a blind lawyer is one of the litigants. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig R. Anderson" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration > You refer to the normal time limit for completing the LSAT as an arbitrary > standard established with sighted examinees in mind. However there's not > a dime's worth of difference between this time limit and any of the other > deadlines which suffuse both the legal business and the rest of the real > world. You suggest that in this context a blind person is entitled to > demand relaxation of these deadlines because they reflect standards > designed for the inherently more capable sighted population -- standards > that are too high for the blind to be expected to meet. If that's what > you're saying, I disagree. > > Craig > ----- Bill Spiry wrote: >> I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in >> June. >> Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school >> regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about attending >> any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability >> based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. >> Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode >> well >> for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances >> for >> success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to >> be >> successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the >> mix... >> that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. >> >> As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to >> complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission >> that >> you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely >> preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those >> outcomes, >> not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard >> designed only with sighted test takers in mind. >> Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task in >> the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must >> satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of functioning >> in >> the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin a >> cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is >> part >> of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our >> terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the real >> professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those >> battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice >> and >> training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear >> that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted >> examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn >> some >> bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and >> with >> a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must >> have >> to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in >> the >> real world. >> >> Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on >> different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are >> probably >> plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in the >> skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law >> school.. >> by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out >> there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally >> unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is >> that >> just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other >> "by >> the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other >> accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as >> hell >> doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the >> LSAT >> due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that >> person >> is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations >> for >> the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. >> >> Bill >> >> ----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >> LSATadministration >> >> I don't see that as entirely practical. >> >> The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be >> higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the >> test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it >> depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. >> >> One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed >> to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe >> they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they >> can do things they cannot. >> >> I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you >> try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you >> are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be >> experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but >> don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the >> LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an >> artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing >> on the "real world". >> >> Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs >> fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on >> practice exams. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >> > It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the >> > extra >> > time accommodations if it is at all possible. >> > Chuck >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" >> > >> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >> > LSATadministration >> > >> > >> >> Hello all, >> >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany >> >> any >> >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a >> >> disability) >> >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >> >> schools: >> >> >> >> "Dear Colleague: >> >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard >> timing >> >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The >> >> nonstandard >> >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same >> >> test >> >> date >> >> as the corresponding standard administration. >> >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >> >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability >> >> of >> >> this >> >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. >> The >> >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >> >> explain: >> >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >> >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >> >> conditions. >> >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated >> forms, >> >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >> >> scores >> >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >> >> under >> >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the >> >> LSAT >> >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be >> >> granted >> >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >> >> one-day >> >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >> >> course work and examinations." >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >> On >> >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >> >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >> >> >> >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >> >> university's student body is disabled? >> >> >> >> Haben >> >> >> >> James Pepper wrote: >> >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams >> does >> >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >> >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it >> >>> is >> >> both >> >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is >> >>> not >> >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It >> >>> is >> a >> >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >> >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >> >> students >> >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once >> >>> they >> >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >> >> considered >> >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >> >>> is not >> >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. >> >>> Of >> >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with >> respect, >> >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. >> >>> But >> >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get >> >>> into a >> >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably >> >>> be >> >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >> >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount >> >>> of >> >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university >> >>> a >> >> lot >> >>> more than non disabled. >> >>> >> >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, >> they >> >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >> >>> >> >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges >> >>> accept >> >> the >> >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, >> >>> but >> >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they >> >>> accept. >> >>> >> >>> James Pepper >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >>> >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >> >> 0yahoo.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g >> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast. net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed May 20 05:37:52 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 22:37:52 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> Message-ID: A print publisher by law is not required to provide Braille copies of books. If an e-text version is not available there is the option of arranging for it to be transcribed by one of the many organizations or individuals that are certified as Braille transcriptionists. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:54 AM Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Good Morning, > > Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The > Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books > that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy of > the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton > Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a braille > copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer service woman > replied. There are many books currently unavailable in braille, but in the > case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this reality. Preparing for > the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best prep books in my most > comfortable reading media: braille. I left a message with the Editorial > staff asking for a braille copy or at least an electronic copy so I can > emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton Review be required to provide a > braille copy of their book, as a reasonable accommodation under the ADA? > > Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently > taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? > > p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. > > Haben > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed May 20 07:06:05 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 00:06:05 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Word varification In-Reply-To: <01cc01c9d8f6$199c5500$6a84fe04@rjige047kjawst> References: <01cc01c9d8f6$199c5500$6a84fe04@rjige047kjawst> Message-ID: <00080CF1EF8642FD9799A6DF92A6D772@spike> Unfortunately, there are at times discrepancies in what is heard on the alternative and what appears on the screen. On some sites the audio quality of the alternative is garbled to create an item that appears similar to what is on the screen in an audio form as the text of the word verification on the screen is not always that clear. The whole issue of word verification or captcha does not comply with web accessibility guidelines and needs to addressed either from a legislative standpoint or through litigation to resolve this issue. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:53 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Word varification >I would like to sign up for twitter, however, I'm using a screen reader, >and they want me to do this word varification. Then they have something so >you can listen to the words, but when you type them in, it says the words >are incorrect. Is this being deceptive? RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed May 20 07:17:47 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 00:17:47 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter toaccompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <4a1392d7.c5c2f10a.6352.ffffaab4@mx.google.com> References: <1682867415.9434251242743881924.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><10D511CC4FD945C0834DBDBA36816F40@spike> <4a1392d7.c5c2f10a.6352.ffffaab4@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8BB6CA5A08CA4EAEBDD1DB3F8D27C430@spike> I took it back in the 70's and as I recall there was reading comprehension and analysis of materials and some logic and math. At that time if there were diagrams for sighted test takers they were omitted. I don't recall exact details. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter toaccompany non-standard LSAT administration > Hi Chuck, > > Can you tell us what the format of the LSAT was when you took it? I heard > it > changed at some point in the 90s. Do you know if this is true? > > Re: Why the LSAT and legal work are not equivalent: See my last post. > > Best, > > Angie > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:48 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSAT > administration > > I would have to agree. I am not aware of too many judges that would give > blind lawyers extra time to prepare for court, nor does the calendaring > deadlines or statute of limitations allow for extra time when filing > paperwork if a blind lawyer is one of the litigants. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Craig R. Anderson" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:38 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSAT > > administration > > >> You refer to the normal time limit for completing the LSAT as an >> arbitrary > >> standard established with sighted examinees in mind. However there's not >> a dime's worth of difference between this time limit and any of the other >> deadlines which suffuse both the legal business and the rest of the real >> world. You suggest that in this context a blind person is entitled to >> demand relaxation of these deadlines because they reflect standards >> designed for the inherently more capable sighted population -- standards >> that are too high for the blind to be expected to meet. If that's what >> you're saying, I disagree. >> >> Craig >> ----- Bill Spiry wrote: >>> I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in >>> June. >>> Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school >>> regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about >>> attending >>> any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability >>> based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. >>> Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode >>> well >>> for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances >>> for >>> success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to >>> be >>> successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the >>> mix... >>> that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. >>> >>> As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to >>> complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission >>> that >>> you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely >>> preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those >>> outcomes, >>> not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard >>> designed only with sighted test takers in mind. >>> Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task >>> in >>> the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must >>> satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of >>> functioning > >>> in >>> the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin >>> a >>> cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is >>> part >>> of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our >>> terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the >>> real >>> professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those >>> battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice >>> and >>> training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear >>> that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted >>> examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn >>> some >>> bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and >>> with >>> a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must >>> have >>> to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in >>> the >>> real world. >>> >>> Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on >>> different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are >>> probably >>> plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in >>> the >>> skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law >>> school.. >>> by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out >>> there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally >>> unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is >>> that >>> just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other >>> "by >>> the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other >>> accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as >>> hell >>> doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the >>> LSAT >>> due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that >>> person >>> is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations >>> for >>> the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> ----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >>> LSATadministration >>> >>> I don't see that as entirely practical. >>> >>> The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be >>> higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the >>> test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it >>> depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. >>> >>> One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed >>> to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe >>> they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they >>> can do things they cannot. >>> >>> I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you >>> try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you >>> are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be >>> experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but >>> don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the >>> LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an >>> artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing >>> on the "real world". >>> >>> Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs >>> fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on >>> practice exams. >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> >>> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >>> > It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the >>> > extra >>> > time accommodations if it is at all possible. >>> > Chuck >>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" >>> > >>> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany >>> > non-standard >>> > LSATadministration >>> > >>> > >>> >> Hello all, >>> >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany >>> >> any >>> >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a >>> >> disability) >>> >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >>> >> schools: >>> >> >>> >> "Dear Colleague: >>> >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard >>> timing >>> >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The >>> >> nonstandard >>> >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same >>> >> test >>> >> date >>> >> as the corresponding standard administration. >>> >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >>> >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability >>> >> of >>> >> this >>> >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be >>> >> determined. >>> The >>> >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related >>> >> Services >>> >> explain: >>> >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >>> >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >>> >> conditions. >>> >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated >>> forms, >>> >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >>> >> scores >>> >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >>> >> under >>> >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for >>> >> the >>> >> LSAT >>> >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be >>> >> granted >>> >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >>> >> one-day >>> >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law >>> >> school >>> >> course work and examinations." >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>> >> On >>> >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >>> >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >>> >> university's student body is disabled? >>> >> >>> >> Haben >>> >> >>> >> James Pepper wrote: >>> >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams >>> does >>> >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform >>> >>> the >>> >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it >>> >>> is >>> >> both >>> >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is >>> >>> not >>> >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It >>> >>> is >>> a >>> >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>> >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >>> >> students >>> >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once >>> >>> they >>> >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >>> >> considered >>> >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >>> >>> is not >>> >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. >>> >>> Of >>> >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with >>> respect, >>> >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of >>> >>> discriminiation. >>> >>> But >>> >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get >>> >>> into a >>> >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably >>> >>> be >>> >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >>> >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount >>> >>> of >>> >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the >>> >>> university > >>> >>> a >>> >> lot >>> >>> more than non disabled. >>> >>> >>> >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, >>> they >>> >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >>> >>> >>> >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges >>> >>> accept >>> >> the >>> >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, >>> >>> but >>> >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they >>> >>> accept. >>> >>> >>> >>> James Pepper >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>> for >>> >> blindlaw: >>> >>> >>> >> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> blindlaw mailing list >>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> blindlaw: >>> >> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >>> >> 0yahoo.com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> blindlaw mailing list >>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> blindlaw: >>> >>> >> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>> al.net >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > blindlaw mailing list >>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n >>> et >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast. > net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Wed May 20 08:16:19 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 01:16:19 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's lettertoaccompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <8BB6CA5A08CA4EAEBDD1DB3F8D27C430@spike> Message-ID: <8773878F352643A5B972F3FCE0CCD5C0@DF5R2QD1> Dear Haban, Here's an excerpt from a paper I wrote regarding the challenges blind applicants to law school face (especially when preparing for the LSAT): "The only Braille materials available from LSAC are 9 former tests which can be borrowed three at a time. However, the process for qualifying for and borrowing these Braille tests isn't published anywhere in LSAC materials (online or in printed form). Moreover, LSAC has not labeled the date and year for each of the Brailled tests so test takers have no idea how old the tests are or if they've already taken one of the Brailled tests before. These barriers in preparation for the LSAT position individuals with print disabilities a unique disadvantage to their peers in preparing for the entry exam." I know of a blind test taker that recently borrowed these 9 tests from LSAC (the LSAC calls this the "Braille Prep" program) and also completed a commercial test preparation course. If you are interested in contacting this person I could put you in touch if you email me off list at stephanie.enyart at gmail.com. It might also be helpful to connect with someone that has approached the test recently and with similar format preferences so you can learn what justification for the accommodations has been successful of late. With Warm Regards, Stephanie Enyart -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:18 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's lettertoaccompany non-standard LSAT administration I took it back in the 70's and as I recall there was reading comprehension and analysis of materials and some logic and math. At that time if there were diagrams for sighted test takers they were omitted. I don't recall exact details. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter toaccompany non-standard LSAT administration > Hi Chuck, > > Can you tell us what the format of the LSAT was when you took it? I heard > it > changed at some point in the 90s. Do you know if this is true? > > Re: Why the LSAT and legal work are not equivalent: See my last post. > > Best, > > Angie > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:48 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSAT > administration > > I would have to agree. I am not aware of too many judges that would give > blind lawyers extra time to prepare for court, nor does the calendaring > deadlines or statute of limitations allow for extra time when filing > paperwork if a blind lawyer is one of the litigants. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Craig R. Anderson" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:38 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSAT > > administration > > >> You refer to the normal time limit for completing the LSAT as an >> arbitrary > >> standard established with sighted examinees in mind. However there's not >> a dime's worth of difference between this time limit and any of the other >> deadlines which suffuse both the legal business and the rest of the real >> world. You suggest that in this context a blind person is entitled to >> demand relaxation of these deadlines because they reflect standards >> designed for the inherently more capable sighted population -- standards >> that are too high for the blind to be expected to meet. If that's what >> you're saying, I disagree. >> >> Craig >> ----- Bill Spiry wrote: >>> I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in >>> June. >>> Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school >>> regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about >>> attending >>> any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability >>> based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. >>> Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode >>> well >>> for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances >>> for >>> success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to >>> be >>> successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the >>> mix... >>> that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. >>> >>> As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to >>> complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission >>> that >>> you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely >>> preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those >>> outcomes, >>> not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard >>> designed only with sighted test takers in mind. >>> Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task >>> in >>> the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must >>> satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of >>> functioning > >>> in >>> the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin >>> a >>> cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is >>> part >>> of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our >>> terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the >>> real >>> professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those >>> battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice >>> and >>> training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear >>> that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted >>> examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn >>> some >>> bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and >>> with >>> a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must >>> have >>> to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in >>> the >>> real world. >>> >>> Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on >>> different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are >>> probably >>> plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in >>> the >>> skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law >>> school.. >>> by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out >>> there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally >>> unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is >>> that >>> just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other >>> "by >>> the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other >>> accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as >>> hell >>> doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the >>> LSAT >>> due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that >>> person >>> is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations >>> for >>> the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> ----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >>> LSATadministration >>> >>> I don't see that as entirely practical. >>> >>> The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be >>> higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the >>> test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it >>> depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. >>> >>> One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed >>> to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe >>> they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they >>> can do things they cannot. >>> >>> I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you >>> try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you >>> are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be >>> experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but >>> don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the >>> LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an >>> artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing >>> on the "real world". >>> >>> Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs >>> fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on >>> practice exams. >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> >>> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >>> > It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the >>> > extra >>> > time accommodations if it is at all possible. >>> > Chuck >>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" >>> > >>> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany >>> > non-standard >>> > LSATadministration >>> > >>> > >>> >> Hello all, >>> >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany >>> >> any >>> >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a >>> >> disability) >>> >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >>> >> schools: >>> >> >>> >> "Dear Colleague: >>> >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard >>> timing >>> >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The >>> >> nonstandard >>> >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same >>> >> test >>> >> date >>> >> as the corresponding standard administration. >>> >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >>> >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability >>> >> of >>> >> this >>> >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be >>> >> determined. >>> The >>> >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related >>> >> Services >>> >> explain: >>> >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >>> >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >>> >> conditions. >>> >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated >>> forms, >>> >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >>> >> scores >>> >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >>> >> under >>> >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for >>> >> the >>> >> LSAT >>> >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be >>> >> granted >>> >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >>> >> one-day >>> >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law >>> >> school >>> >> course work and examinations." >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>> >> On >>> >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >>> >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >>> >> university's student body is disabled? >>> >> >>> >> Haben >>> >> >>> >> James Pepper wrote: >>> >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams >>> does >>> >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform >>> >>> the >>> >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it >>> >>> is >>> >> both >>> >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is >>> >>> not >>> >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It >>> >>> is >>> a >>> >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>> >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >>> >> students >>> >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once >>> >>> they >>> >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >>> >> considered >>> >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >>> >>> is not >>> >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. >>> >>> Of >>> >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with >>> respect, >>> >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of >>> >>> discriminiation. >>> >>> But >>> >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get >>> >>> into a >>> >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably >>> >>> be >>> >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >>> >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount >>> >>> of >>> >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the >>> >>> university > >>> >>> a >>> >> lot >>> >>> more than non disabled. >>> >>> >>> >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, >>> they >>> >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >>> >>> >>> >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges >>> >>> accept >>> >> the >>> >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, >>> >>> but >>> >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they >>> >>> accept. >>> >>> >>> >>> James Pepper >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>> for >>> >> blindlaw: >>> >>> >>> >> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> blindlaw mailing list >>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> blindlaw: >>> >> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >>> >> 0yahoo.com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> blindlaw mailing list >>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> blindlaw: >>> >>> >> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>> al.net >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > blindlaw mailing list >>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n >>> et >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast. > net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Wed May 20 11:11:04 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 07:11:04 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> <4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law school wave the test? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to > enroll > in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is > not > the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Home: 401-824-8685 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angie Matney" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> Hello Haben, >> >> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >> starting >> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> Good Morning, >> >> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >> >> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >> >> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >> >> Haben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 06:21:00 From womankind at earthlink.net Wed May 20 12:23:19 2009 From: womankind at earthlink.net (Stephanie Ortoleva) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 08:23:19 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] gmail accessibility In-Reply-To: References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> Message-ID: Good morning colleagues, A couple of months ago someone sent to me a hyperlink for a separate gmail page which is more accessible. If anyone has that hyperlink, can you send it to me off list? Thank you. Stephanie Ortoleva womankind at earthlink.net From chatter8712 at gmail.com Wed May 20 12:24:45 2009 From: chatter8712 at gmail.com (Shane D) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 08:24:45 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] gmail accessibility In-Reply-To: References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> Message-ID: <7556b95a0905200524k5359a367g7c5607961c7165be@mail.gmail.com> It's pretty easy. Sign in to your g-Mail and click "Basic HTML." It's a link on the page. Then you may be able to find a link that says "Set as Default View" or something similar. On 5/20/09, Stephanie Ortoleva wrote: > Good morning colleagues, > > A couple of months ago someone sent to me a hyperlink for a separate > gmail page which is more accessible. > > If anyone has that hyperlink, can you send it to me off list? > > Thank you. > > Stephanie Ortoleva > womankind at earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmail.com > -- -Shane Website: http://www.blind-geek.com AIM: inhaddict MSN: shane at blind-geek.com Skype: chatter8712 Twitter: blind_geek From Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov Wed May 20 13:17:09 2009 From: Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov (Norman, Gary C. (CMS/CBC)) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:17:09 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Inquiry About On-line Blue Book Message-ID: I am writing to inquire if anyone knows about or might know where I could find an on-line version of the Blue Book. Any suggestions are welcome. Sincerely, Gary Norman From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Wed May 20 13:24:24 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:24:24 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: FAQ Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D855@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> The attached document is a Q and A regarding the new Air Carrier Access Act Regulation that became applicable on May 13. I thought some on this list would find it a resource worth having, though I am sending it for its resource value rather than to stimulate discussion. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: Forum2009 at dot.gov [mailto:Forum2009 at dot.gov] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 3:42 PM To: kking at unitedspinal.org; ward at thedpc.org; mbrogioli at nacdd.org; djn at amtrak.com; jpope at aadb.org; McCarthy, Jim; maureenm at pva.org; eeames at csufresno.edu; info at k94life.org; Joan.esnayra at comcast.net; rosaline.crawford at nad.org; battat at hearingloss.org; tdiexdir at aol.com; howard at equipforequality.org; jdexter at easterseals.com; Mika_Pyyhkala at nhp.org; marilyn.hamilton at sunmed.com; starnesn at nod.org; mbrunson at acb.org; jon.m.tiger at spiritaero.com; afinucane at efa.org; Phil at GRQConsulting.com; gewart at thoracic.org; secretariat at edf-feph.org; maria.nyman at edf-feph.org; info at alzheimer-europe.org; secretariat at autismeurope.org; office at dpi-europe.org; chairperson at dpi-europe.org; Ebis.secretariat at skynet.be; efhoh at hrf.se; eamda at hotmail.com; aimo.stromberg at cp-liitto.fi; aeroclub.sourds at wanadoo.fr; mark.wheatley at eudnet.org; info at escif.org; annesophie.parent at age-platform.org; Self-advocacy at inclusion-europe.org; sogol.noorani at mhe-sme.org; info at assistancedogseurope.org; ebuoffice at euroblind.org Subject: FAQ Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities VIA EMAIL The Aviation Enforcement Office has issued a Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) document concerning the air travel of people with disabilities under the amended Air Carrier Access Act regulation which is effective today (copy attached). You can also access the FAQ at http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/ . The purpose of the FAQ is to help airlines that provide service to passengers with disabilities assist those passengers in accordance with law and to offer air travelers with disabilities information about their rights under the ACAA and 14 CFR Part 382 (Part 382). The FAQ also contains suggested practices for carriers to use on a voluntary basis to implement Part 382. Blane A. Workie Deputy Assistant General Counsel Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings U.S. Department of Transportation 1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE, Room W98-310 Washington, D.C. 20590 (202) 366-9345 (voice) (202) 366-7152 (fax) blane.workie at dot.gov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FAQ Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities (May 13 2009).doc Type: application/msword Size: 152576 bytes Desc: FAQ Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities (May 13 2009).doc URL: From roddj12 at hotmail.com Wed May 20 14:07:23 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:07:23 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com><4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > school wave the test? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> enroll >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >> not >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >>> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>> starting >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > 06:21:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Wed May 20 14:42:23 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 07:42:23 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com><4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B989@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Back during the late 1970s, the LSAT folks decided that since the test could not be validated under non-standard conditions, the test would not be offered to those who needed reasonable accommodations. Back in that time, with essentially readers and tapes as the technology, blind students did not even have the option of taking the LSAT. I was one of those lucky ones, and every other lawyer I know who went to law school in that era also applied to law school without having the LSAT. I have no idea when the practice started and stopped. The interesting question is why they stopped, since from what I can tell, the basic premise still remains; a standardized test taken under non-standard conditions is not valid, and should not be used as a factor for law school admission. Why didn't anyone think to apply that same logic to the bar exam? Sincerely, Tim Ford -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:07 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > school wave the test? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> enroll >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >> not >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >>> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>> starting >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%4 0gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotm ail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley% 40insightbb.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > 06:21:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotm ail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov From mar.cra at comcast.net Wed May 20 14:42:46 2009 From: mar.cra at comcast.net (Craig R. Anderson) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 14:42:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <783670699.9873941242830566482.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Back in the day, the entity administering the LSAT contended the test couldn't be validated for a blind examinee. Consequently, in those times no blind candidate took the LSAT, law schools evaluated applications from such candidates without it and The world didn't end. Now our national fetish with standardized tests holds sway, disabled applicants take the LSAT and comparable exercises and the disability community is embroiled in interminable controversies with test administrators over accommodations. Be careful what you wish for. Craig ----- Rod Alcidonis wrote: > I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully > convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who > was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be > done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. > With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he > effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application > package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair > way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it > outside of my conversation with him. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Home: 401-824-8685 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > > > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > > school wave the test? > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > > > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to > >> enroll > >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is > >> not > >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. > >> > >> Rod Alcidonis > >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 > >> Roger Williams University School of Law > >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > >> Bristol, RI 02809 > >> Home: 401-824-8685 > >> Cell: 718-704-4651 > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Angie Matney" > >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > >> > >> > >>> Hello Haben, > >>> > >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the > >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I > >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good > >>> starting > >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>> On > >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma > >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM > >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > >>> > >>> Good Morning, > >>> > >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The > >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books > >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy > >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton > >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a > >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer > >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in > >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this > >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best > >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a > >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least > >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton > >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a > >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? > >>> > >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently > >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? > >>> > >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. > >>> > >>> Haben > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma > >>> il.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > > 06:21:00 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast.net From b75205 at gmail.com Wed May 20 14:59:28 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:59:28 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's lettertoaccompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <8773878F352643A5B972F3FCE0CCD5C0@DF5R2QD1> References: <8BB6CA5A08CA4EAEBDD1DB3F8D27C430@spike> <8773878F352643A5B972F3FCE0CCD5C0@DF5R2QD1> Message-ID: One of the solutions is to create a test that can be taken by all people at the same time, whether they are blind or not. This can be accomplished and I have written about this in an upcoming book where I explain how to lay out this content in a standardized test. The problem here is that this all comes down to layout of the test and making it accessible to all. If everyone takes the same test, then everyone can be rated the same. I can lay out this test so you do not need extra time. Of course what is needed here is a time study and the folks at the LSAT are probably realizing that the NFB is going to explain these issues in the court case. Institutions use online application processes to sift out their applicants and this is an accepted policy. But what happens when they sift out the blind and disabled because they cannot fill out the form because the webmaster does not know how to lay out content properly? This is an ever increasing problem and although people rely on the latest version of JAWS to get them through these things, most people who are blind do not own JAWS. JAWS compensates for the lack of abilities of webmasters to properly format content. It really is an amazing program because the stuff you find accessible in webpages, is not designed that way! JAWS is making up the difference. So the problem here is layout and getting the LSAT to lay out its content for everyone. That seems to be a simple discrimination case right there. James Pepper From angie.matney at gmail.com Wed May 20 15:00:16 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 11:00:16 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Inquiry About On-line Blue Book In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a141b05.0a025a0a.70ce.ffffc70e@mx.google.com> Hi Gary, Go to www.legalbluebook.com. There is a small subscription fee, but the site is very accessible. Best, Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Norman, Gary C. (CMS/CBC) Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:17 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Inquiry About On-line Blue Book I am writing to inquire if anyone knows about or might know where I could find an on-line version of the Blue Book. Any suggestions are welcome. Sincerely, Gary Norman _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From angie.matney at gmail.com Wed May 20 15:02:35 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 11:02:35 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com><4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a141b90.15045a0a.29fa.ffffd401@mx.google.com> I am pretty sure that I read in the Monitor that Peggy Elliot got into Yale Law without the lSAT. As I said in another post, I thought my LSAT score might boost my over-all application package (and I believe it did). But people have gotten it waived in the past. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 10:07 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > school wave the test? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> enroll >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >> not >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >>> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>> starting >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > 06:21:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Wed May 20 15:18:48 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:18:48 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com><4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <330AD7AE3B3042BC9F1D8C58C35E57C1@labarre> Interestingly enough, prior to passage of the ADA, it was quite common for blind law school applicants to receive waivers from taking the LSAT. I got a waiver from Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Berkley, and Minnesota at the time I was applying to law schools in late 89 and into 90. Almost all the other blind folks of which I was aware during that period got waivers from law schools. The law schools understood that for a variety of reasons, the LSAt did not accurately predict how well a blind person would do in law school. In fact, a study conducted some time in the 90's reflected the fact that blind law students did better than their LSAT scores would have predicted. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully >convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who >was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be >done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did >it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he >effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application >package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair >way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it >outside of my conversation with him. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Home: 401-824-8685 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT >> preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law >> school wave the test? >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >>> enroll >>> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >>> not >>> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angie Matney" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> >>>> Hello Haben, >>>> >>>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under >>>> the >>>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>>> starting >>>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>>> >>>> Good Morning, >>>> >>>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? >>>> The >>>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep >>>> books >>>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the >>>> best >>>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>>> >>>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>>> >>>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>>> >>>> Haben >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >>>> il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: >> 05/19/09 06:21:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Wed May 20 15:25:29 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 08:25:29 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <783670699.9873941242830566482.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <783670699.9873941242830566482.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B990@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> LSAT actually refused to allow the test to be taken under non-standard conditions. I checked, and was told that the test was simply not made available under non-standard conditions. So all blind law school applicants in that time frame were in the same boat, and so were the law schools; none of us were ale to take the exam so no law school had to deal with evaluating the un-verified results. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Craig R. Anderson Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:43 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Back in the day, the entity administering the LSAT contended the test couldn't be validated for a blind examinee. Consequently, in those times no blind candidate took the LSAT, law schools evaluated applications from such candidates without it and The world didn't end. Now our national fetish with standardized tests holds sway, disabled applicants take the LSAT and comparable exercises and the disability community is embroiled in interminable controversies with test administrators over accommodations. Be careful what you wish for. Craig ----- Rod Alcidonis wrote: > I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully > convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the > guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. > So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. > With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he > effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his > application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that > it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public > knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 > Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Home: 401-824-8685 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > > > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that > > the law school wave the test? > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > > > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, > >> to enroll in a prep program where you will get questions to > >> practice from. This is not the ideal but really the easiest way to > >> avoid the current frustration. > >> > >> Rod Alcidonis > >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 > >> Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > >> Bristol, RI 02809 > >> Home: 401-824-8685 > >> Cell: 718-704-4651 > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Angie Matney" > >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > >> > >> > >>> Hello Haben, > >>> > >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the > >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I > >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good > >>> starting > >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>> On > >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma > >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM > >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > >>> > >>> Good Morning, > >>> > >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The > >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books > >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy > >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton > >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a > >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer > >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in > >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this > >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best > >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a > >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least > >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton > >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a > >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? > >>> > >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently > >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? > >>> > >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. > >>> > >>> Haben > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%4 0gma > >>> il.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotm ail.com > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley% 40insightbb.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > > 06:21:00 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotm ail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comc ast.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Wed May 20 16:16:28 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 12:16:28 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B989@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> <4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B989@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Message-ID: <3BF2577561D54B9486724B862C474D1B@StevePC> I was one of those not required to sit for the LSAT in 1978. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Back during the late 1970s, the LSAT folks decided that since the test > could not be validated under non-standard conditions, the test would not > be offered to those who needed reasonable accommodations. Back in that > time, with essentially readers and tapes as the technology, blind > students did not even have the option of taking the LSAT. > > I was one of those lucky ones, and every other lawyer I know who went to > law school in that era also applied to law school without having the > LSAT. > > I have no idea when the practice started and stopped. The interesting > question is why they stopped, since from what I can tell, the basic > premise still remains; a standardized test taken under non-standard > conditions is not valid, and should not be used as a factor for law > school admission. Why didn't anyone think to apply that same logic to > the bar exam? > > Sincerely, > Tim Ford > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:07 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully > convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy > who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it > can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how > he did it. > With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he > effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his > application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that > it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public > knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Home: 401-824-8685 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT >> preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the > law >> school wave the test? >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >>> enroll >>> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This > is >>> not >>> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current > frustration. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angie Matney" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> >>>> Hello Haben, >>>> >>>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under > the >>>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, > but I >>>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>>> starting >>>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>>> >>>> Good Morning, >>>> >>>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? > The >>>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep > books >>>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print > copy >>>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the > Princeton >>>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge > this >>>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the > best >>>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at > least >>>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the > Princeton >>>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>>> >>>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have > recently >>>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>>> >>>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>>> >>>> Haben >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%4 > 0gma >>>> il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotm > ail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley% > 40insightbb.com >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: > 05/19/09 >> 06:21:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotm > ail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp > h.ca.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.35/2124 - Release Date: 05/20/09 06:22:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Wed May 20 16:19:08 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 12:19:08 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: FAQ Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D855@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D855@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <43EC39492DA84DDDB552672A523984E6@StevePC> Wow, what a thorough document. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "McCarthy, Jim" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:24 AM Subject: [blindlaw] FW: FAQ Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities The attached document is a Q and A regarding the new Air Carrier Access Act Regulation that became applicable on May 13. I thought some on this list would find it a resource worth having, though I am sending it for its resource value rather than to stimulate discussion. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: Forum2009 at dot.gov [mailto:Forum2009 at dot.gov] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 3:42 PM To: kking at unitedspinal.org; ward at thedpc.org; mbrogioli at nacdd.org; djn at amtrak.com; jpope at aadb.org; McCarthy, Jim; maureenm at pva.org; eeames at csufresno.edu; info at k94life.org; Joan.esnayra at comcast.net; rosaline.crawford at nad.org; battat at hearingloss.org; tdiexdir at aol.com; howard at equipforequality.org; jdexter at easterseals.com; Mika_Pyyhkala at nhp.org; marilyn.hamilton at sunmed.com; starnesn at nod.org; mbrunson at acb.org; jon.m.tiger at spiritaero.com; afinucane at efa.org; Phil at GRQConsulting.com; gewart at thoracic.org; secretariat at edf-feph.org; maria.nyman at edf-feph.org; info at alzheimer-europe.org; secretariat at autismeurope.org; office at dpi-europe.org; chairperson at dpi-europe.org; Ebis.secretariat at skynet.be; efhoh at hrf.se; eamda at hotmail.com; aimo.stromberg at cp-liitto.fi; aeroclub.sourds at wanadoo.fr; mark.wheatley at eudnet.org; info at escif.org; annesophie.parent at age-platform.org; Self-advocacy at inclusion-europe.org; sogol.noorani at mhe-sme.org; info at assistancedogseurope.org; ebuoffice at euroblind.org Subject: FAQ Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities VIA EMAIL The Aviation Enforcement Office has issued a Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) document concerning the air travel of people with disabilities under the amended Air Carrier Access Act regulation which is effective today (copy attached). You can also access the FAQ at http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/ . The purpose of the FAQ is to help airlines that provide service to passengers with disabilities assist those passengers in accordance with law and to offer air travelers with disabilities information about their rights under the ACAA and 14 CFR Part 382 (Part 382). The FAQ also contains suggested practices for carriers to use on a voluntary basis to implement Part 382. Blane A. Workie Deputy Assistant General Counsel Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings U.S. Department of Transportation 1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE, Room W98-310 Washington, D.C. 20590 (202) 366-9345 (voice) (202) 366-7152 (fax) blane.workie at dot.gov -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.35/2124 - Release Date: 05/20/09 06:22:00 From benkarpilow at gmail.com Wed May 20 16:50:55 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:50:55 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Inquiry About On-line Blue Book References: Message-ID: Norman, here's a link to the blue book website, which offers an online subscription. I've never used it, so I can't confirm its effectiveness to a blind user. http://www.legalbluebook.com/ Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman, Gary C. (CMS/CBC)" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 6:17 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Inquiry About On-line Blue Book >I am writing to inquire if anyone knows about or might know where I > could find an on-line version of the Blue Book. Any suggestions are > welcome. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Gary Norman > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Wed May 20 18:13:29 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 11:13:29 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <4a141b90.15045a0a.29fa.ffffd401@mx.google.com> References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com><4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> <4a141b90.15045a0a.29fa.ffffd401@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B999@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Peggy probably goes back to that time period I was describing where the LSAT was simply not made available to a blind test taker. It was not an option for law schools to waive; there was just no way for us to take the test. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:03 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials I am pretty sure that I read in the Monitor that Peggy Elliot got into Yale Law without the lSAT. As I said in another post, I thought my LSAT score might boost my over-all application package (and I believe it did). But people have gotten it waived in the past. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 10:07 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > school wave the test? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> enroll >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >> not >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >>> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>> starting >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%4 0gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotm ail. com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley% 40in sightbb.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > 06:21:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotm ail. com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%4 0gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Wed May 20 18:36:35 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 11:36:35 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4ABBDB7A91094DABB223C59E295AAEF3@DF5R2QD1> Although Richard Bernstein's ability to not take the LSAT was a good thing for him, it is not a viable option for blind pre-law candidates today because the Law School Admission Council in conjunction with the ABA Section on Legal Education an Admission to the Bar have created policies that triangulate the applicant in taking the LSAT for admission to ABA-accredited schools. The LSAC is the entity the American Bar Association charges to administer the LSAT and conduct the admissions process for all ABA-accredited schools and some state accredited schools. Section 503 of the ABA regulations read, "A law school shall require each applicant for admission as a first year J.D. student to take a valid an reliable admission test to assist the school and the applicant in assessing the applicant's capability in satisfactorily completing the school's educational program. In making admissions decisions, a law school shall use the test results in a manner that is consistent with the current guidelines regarding proper use of the test results provided by the agency that developed the test." Law schools see thousands of disabled applicants each year who have taken the LSAT despite accommodations issues. Since schools have a wide array of candidates to choose from among those who have taken the LSAT, it positions the blind pre-law applicant that wants a waiver at a significant disadvantage because the admissions office would not only have to make an exception for them, they would also have to use the results of another standardized test that is valid, reliable and measures the aptitude for completing law school. So the aftermath of people like Richard inspired the LSAC and ABA to draft these rules which have ultimately given LSAC quite a bit of power over disabled applicants - applicants must take a standardized test, no other tests meet the criteria required by the ABA and the LSAC, as the agency administering the test, has the power to offer the schools guidelines on test interpretation (i.e. the text of the letter I sent to the list that started this thread). To read Section 503 in the ABA regs go to: http://www.abanet.org/legaled/standards/20072008StandardsWebContent/Chapter% 205.pdf -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:07 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > school wave the test? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> enroll >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >> not >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >>> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>> starting >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > 06:21:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com From angie.matney at gmail.com Wed May 20 19:04:34 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 15:04:34 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <4ABBDB7A91094DABB223C59E295AAEF3@DF5R2QD1> References: <4ABBDB7A91094DABB223C59E295AAEF3@DF5R2QD1> Message-ID: <4a145447.05035a0a.60ad.08c6@mx.google.com> Hello Stephanie, This is very interesting. I agree that seeking a waiver of the LSAT would put a blind student or a student with another disability at a disadvantage. But your post makes me wonder about the program Michigan recently established, whereby certain applicants (I believe they had to have gone to UMich for undergrad, but I don't remember the details) could be exempt from the LSAT if they met certain other requirements. As far as I know, none of these involved a standardized test. Do you remember the program to which I'm referring? Maybe others do and can comment on this. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Enyart Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 2:37 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Although Richard Bernstein's ability to not take the LSAT was a good thing for him, it is not a viable option for blind pre-law candidates today because the Law School Admission Council in conjunction with the ABA Section on Legal Education an Admission to the Bar have created policies that triangulate the applicant in taking the LSAT for admission to ABA-accredited schools. The LSAC is the entity the American Bar Association charges to administer the LSAT and conduct the admissions process for all ABA-accredited schools and some state accredited schools. Section 503 of the ABA regulations read, "A law school shall require each applicant for admission as a first year J.D. student to take a valid an reliable admission test to assist the school and the applicant in assessing the applicant's capability in satisfactorily completing the school's educational program. In making admissions decisions, a law school shall use the test results in a manner that is consistent with the current guidelines regarding proper use of the test results provided by the agency that developed the test." Law schools see thousands of disabled applicants each year who have taken the LSAT despite accommodations issues. Since schools have a wide array of candidates to choose from among those who have taken the LSAT, it positions the blind pre-law applicant that wants a waiver at a significant disadvantage because the admissions office would not only have to make an exception for them, they would also have to use the results of another standardized test that is valid, reliable and measures the aptitude for completing law school. So the aftermath of people like Richard inspired the LSAC and ABA to draft these rules which have ultimately given LSAC quite a bit of power over disabled applicants - applicants must take a standardized test, no other tests meet the criteria required by the ABA and the LSAC, as the agency administering the test, has the power to offer the schools guidelines on test interpretation (i.e. the text of the letter I sent to the list that started this thread). To read Section 503 in the ABA regs go to: http://www.abanet.org/legaled/standards/20072008StandardsWebContent/Chapter% 205.pdf -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:07 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > school wave the test? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> enroll >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >> not >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >>> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>> starting >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > 06:21:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From npendleton7 at satx.rr.com Wed May 20 19:55:19 2009 From: npendleton7 at satx.rr.com (Natalie Watkins) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 14:55:19 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Custody and Vision Loss In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Listers, I am hopeful that someone may be able to provide some resources for an acquaintance of mine. I do not have all of the information. She has communicated that she feels her vision was used against her in getting custody of her children during a divorce. I have read about Federationists addressing this, but am not sure where to direct her. Thanks in advance for any information you can provide, Natalie Watkins From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Wed May 20 20:10:18 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 13:10:18 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Message-ID: <2318212ABF744BDD9977DAA373FEEE91@DF5R2QD1> Angie, I do remember hearing about it but I don't recall the details. Within the link to the ABA regs (which was an accessible PDF that I couldn't highlight and paste) there is a note that pertains to pre-admission academic programs - it is Interpretation # 503-3. I also know that Michigan was approached by a blind applicant recently who sought an LSAT waiver and in the end they did not accept the applicant. About a year later I heard about the program you are referencing. I am not sure if there is a correlation between the events but it does make me wonder if that is how Michigan chose to respond. ~Stephanie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:05 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Hello Stephanie, This is very interesting. I agree that seeking a waiver of the LSAT would put a blind student or a student with another disability at a disadvantage. But your post makes me wonder about the program Michigan recently established, whereby certain applicants (I believe they had to have gone to UMich for undergrad, but I don't remember the details) could be exempt from the LSAT if they met certain other requirements. As far as I know, none of these involved a standardized test. Do you remember the program to which I'm referring? Maybe others do and can comment on this. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Enyart Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 2:37 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Although Richard Bernstein's ability to not take the LSAT was a good thing for him, it is not a viable option for blind pre-law candidates today because the Law School Admission Council in conjunction with the ABA Section on Legal Education an Admission to the Bar have created policies that triangulate the applicant in taking the LSAT for admission to ABA-accredited schools. The LSAC is the entity the American Bar Association charges to administer the LSAT and conduct the admissions process for all ABA-accredited schools and some state accredited schools. Section 503 of the ABA regulations read, "A law school shall require each applicant for admission as a first year J.D. student to take a valid an reliable admission test to assist the school and the applicant in assessing the applicant's capability in satisfactorily completing the school's educational program. In making admissions decisions, a law school shall use the test results in a manner that is consistent with the current guidelines regarding proper use of the test results provided by the agency that developed the test." Law schools see thousands of disabled applicants each year who have taken the LSAT despite accommodations issues. Since schools have a wide array of candidates to choose from among those who have taken the LSAT, it positions the blind pre-law applicant that wants a waiver at a significant disadvantage because the admissions office would not only have to make an exception for them, they would also have to use the results of another standardized test that is valid, reliable and measures the aptitude for completing law school. So the aftermath of people like Richard inspired the LSAC and ABA to draft these rules which have ultimately given LSAC quite a bit of power over disabled applicants - applicants must take a standardized test, no other tests meet the criteria required by the ABA and the LSAC, as the agency administering the test, has the power to offer the schools guidelines on test interpretation (i.e. the text of the letter I sent to the list that started this thread). To read Section 503 in the ABA regs go to: http://www.abanet.org/legaled/standards/20072008StandardsWebContent/Chapter% 205.pdf -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:07 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > school wave the test? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> enroll >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >> not >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >>> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>> starting >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > 06:21:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Wed May 20 20:13:28 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 13:13:28 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] [blind law] LSAT Prep Materials Message-ID: <4BB18A746A184C65B6233DCC53EEC095@DF5R2QD1> Oh, and one more thing - 503-3 requires an examination (or multiple exams) at the culmination of pre-admissions programs. So there is a test involved. -----Original Message----- From: Stephanie Enyart [mailto:stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 1:10 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: RE: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Angie, I do remember hearing about it but I don't recall the details. Within the link to the ABA regs (which was an accessible PDF that I couldn't highlight and paste) there is a note that pertains to pre-admission academic programs - it is Interpretation # 503-3. I also know that Michigan was approached by a blind applicant recently who sought an LSAT waiver and in the end they did not accept the applicant. About a year later I heard about the program you are referencing. I am not sure if there is a correlation between the events but it does make me wonder if that is how Michigan chose to respond. ~Stephanie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:05 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Hello Stephanie, This is very interesting. I agree that seeking a waiver of the LSAT would put a blind student or a student with another disability at a disadvantage. But your post makes me wonder about the program Michigan recently established, whereby certain applicants (I believe they had to have gone to UMich for undergrad, but I don't remember the details) could be exempt from the LSAT if they met certain other requirements. As far as I know, none of these involved a standardized test. Do you remember the program to which I'm referring? Maybe others do and can comment on this. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Enyart Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 2:37 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Although Richard Bernstein's ability to not take the LSAT was a good thing for him, it is not a viable option for blind pre-law candidates today because the Law School Admission Council in conjunction with the ABA Section on Legal Education an Admission to the Bar have created policies that triangulate the applicant in taking the LSAT for admission to ABA-accredited schools. The LSAC is the entity the American Bar Association charges to administer the LSAT and conduct the admissions process for all ABA-accredited schools and some state accredited schools. Section 503 of the ABA regulations read, "A law school shall require each applicant for admission as a first year J.D. student to take a valid an reliable admission test to assist the school and the applicant in assessing the applicant's capability in satisfactorily completing the school's educational program. In making admissions decisions, a law school shall use the test results in a manner that is consistent with the current guidelines regarding proper use of the test results provided by the agency that developed the test." Law schools see thousands of disabled applicants each year who have taken the LSAT despite accommodations issues. Since schools have a wide array of candidates to choose from among those who have taken the LSAT, it positions the blind pre-law applicant that wants a waiver at a significant disadvantage because the admissions office would not only have to make an exception for them, they would also have to use the results of another standardized test that is valid, reliable and measures the aptitude for completing law school. So the aftermath of people like Richard inspired the LSAC and ABA to draft these rules which have ultimately given LSAC quite a bit of power over disabled applicants - applicants must take a standardized test, no other tests meet the criteria required by the ABA and the LSAC, as the agency administering the test, has the power to offer the schools guidelines on test interpretation (i.e. the text of the letter I sent to the list that started this thread). To read Section 503 in the ABA regs go to: http://www.abanet.org/legaled/standards/20072008StandardsWebContent/Chapter% 205.pdf -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:07 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > school wave the test? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> enroll >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >> not >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >>> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>> starting >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > 06:21:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com From DFrye at nfb.org Wed May 20 21:53:20 2009 From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 17:53:20 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Custody and Vision Loss In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BD483D4@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Natalie: Please have your acquaintance contact me. If I am unable to help her, I will be able to direct her to the appropriate person. Specifically, I will need to know in which state she lives; laws vary from jurisdiction-to-jurisdiction. As part of our advocacy work on this issue (custody challenges based on erroneous assumptions about vision loss and blindness), we have collected quite a number of anecdotal testimonials from competent blind parents. These alone are usually helpful to an attorney who also understands that blindness in and of itself should not be a factor in this determination. Of course, some blind people should not be parents, but more often than not it is not because of their absence of vision. In the rare instance that blindness is a legitimate factor, this can usually be resolved with effective training. Finally, in Maryland the state legislature has recently adopted some pretty progressive legislation that precludes reference to disability as a cause for determining matters of custody. With Kind Regards, *********************** Daniel B. Frye, J.D. Associate Editor The Braille Monitor National Federation of the Blind Office of the President 1800 Johnson Street Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Fax: (410) 685-5653 Email: DFrye at nfb.org Web Address: www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's Blind" -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Natalie Watkins Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 3:55 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Custody and Vision Loss Hi Listers, I am hopeful that someone may be able to provide some resources for an acquaintance of mine. I do not have all of the information. She has communicated that she feels her vision was used against her in getting custody of her children during a divorce. I have read about Federationists addressing this, but am not sure where to direct her. Thanks in advance for any information you can provide, Natalie Watkins _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.or g From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Wed May 20 22:59:46 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 18:59:46 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <783670699.9873941242830566482.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <783670699.9873941242830566482.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <7D2236C17B394121A83A10F3E40730EF@StevePC> I think it would be preferable to obtain a waver from the law school where you are applying. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig R. Anderson" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Back in the day, the entity administering the LSAT contended the test > couldn't be validated for a blind examinee. Consequently, in those times > no blind candidate took the LSAT, law schools evaluated applications from > such candidates without it and The world didn't end. Now our national > fetish with standardized tests holds sway, disabled applicants take the > LSAT and comparable exercises and the disability community is embroiled in > interminable controversies with test administrators over accommodations. > Be careful what you wish for. > > Craig > ----- Rod Alcidonis wrote: >> I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully >> convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy >> who >> was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can >> be >> done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did >> it. >> With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he >> effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his >> application >> package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an >> unfair >> way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share >> it >> outside of my conversation with him. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >> > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT >> > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the >> > law >> > school wave the test? >> > Steve >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> > >> > >> >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> >> enroll >> >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This >> >> is >> >> not >> >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Angie Matney" >> >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >> >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >> >>> >> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under >> >>> the >> >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but >> >>> I >> >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >> >>> starting >> >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >>> On >> >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >> >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >>> >> >>> Good Morning, >> >>> >> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? >> >>> The >> >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep >> >>> books >> >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print >> >>> copy >> >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the >> >>> Princeton >> >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >> >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >> >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >> >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge >> >>> this >> >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the >> >>> best >> >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >> >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at >> >>> least >> >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >> >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >> >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >> >>> >> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >> >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >> >>> >> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >> >>> >> >>> Haben >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> blindlaw: >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >> >>> il.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> blindlaw: >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > >> > >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: >> > 05/19/09 >> > 06:21:00 >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.35/2124 - Release Date: 05/20/09 06:22:00 From angie.matney at gmail.com Thu May 21 00:45:12 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 20:45:12 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <2318212ABF744BDD9977DAA373FEEE91@DF5R2QD1> References: <2318212ABF744BDD9977DAA373FEEE91@DF5R2QD1> Message-ID: <4a14a41d.07035a0a.3bd1.7261@mx.google.com> Hi Stephanie, This story seems to illustrate that asking for a waiver of the LSAT might indeed put a student at a disadvantage. I was accepted at Michigan, and I know two recent blind law students there. Of course, this individual might have gotten the same admissions decision if they had taken the LSAT. On the other hand, it certainly doesn't seem as if schools are viewing scores from accommodated LSAT's with particular suspicion. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Enyart Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 4:10 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Angie, I do remember hearing about it but I don't recall the details. Within the link to the ABA regs (which was an accessible PDF that I couldn't highlight and paste) there is a note that pertains to pre-admission academic programs - it is Interpretation # 503-3. I also know that Michigan was approached by a blind applicant recently who sought an LSAT waiver and in the end they did not accept the applicant. About a year later I heard about the program you are referencing. I am not sure if there is a correlation between the events but it does make me wonder if that is how Michigan chose to respond. ~Stephanie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:05 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Hello Stephanie, This is very interesting. I agree that seeking a waiver of the LSAT would put a blind student or a student with another disability at a disadvantage. But your post makes me wonder about the program Michigan recently established, whereby certain applicants (I believe they had to have gone to UMich for undergrad, but I don't remember the details) could be exempt from the LSAT if they met certain other requirements. As far as I know, none of these involved a standardized test. Do you remember the program to which I'm referring? Maybe others do and can comment on this. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Enyart Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 2:37 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Although Richard Bernstein's ability to not take the LSAT was a good thing for him, it is not a viable option for blind pre-law candidates today because the Law School Admission Council in conjunction with the ABA Section on Legal Education an Admission to the Bar have created policies that triangulate the applicant in taking the LSAT for admission to ABA-accredited schools. The LSAC is the entity the American Bar Association charges to administer the LSAT and conduct the admissions process for all ABA-accredited schools and some state accredited schools. Section 503 of the ABA regulations read, "A law school shall require each applicant for admission as a first year J.D. student to take a valid an reliable admission test to assist the school and the applicant in assessing the applicant's capability in satisfactorily completing the school's educational program. In making admissions decisions, a law school shall use the test results in a manner that is consistent with the current guidelines regarding proper use of the test results provided by the agency that developed the test." Law schools see thousands of disabled applicants each year who have taken the LSAT despite accommodations issues. Since schools have a wide array of candidates to choose from among those who have taken the LSAT, it positions the blind pre-law applicant that wants a waiver at a significant disadvantage because the admissions office would not only have to make an exception for them, they would also have to use the results of another standardized test that is valid, reliable and measures the aptitude for completing law school. So the aftermath of people like Richard inspired the LSAC and ABA to draft these rules which have ultimately given LSAC quite a bit of power over disabled applicants - applicants must take a standardized test, no other tests meet the criteria required by the ABA and the LSAC, as the agency administering the test, has the power to offer the schools guidelines on test interpretation (i.e. the text of the letter I sent to the list that started this thread). To read Section 503 in the ABA regs go to: http://www.abanet.org/legaled/standards/20072008StandardsWebContent/Chapter% 205.pdf -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:07 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > school wave the test? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> enroll >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >> not >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >>> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>> starting >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > 06:21:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Thu May 21 00:50:57 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 17:50:57 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] WHAT'S THE SCORE: THE LSAT AND THE BLIND, Michigan Bar Journal Message-ID: Given the dialogue on this issue, I thought some may be interested in reading more. ~Stephanie Michigan Bar Journal January, 2001 *46 WHAT'S THE SCORE: THE LSAT AND THE BLIND Naseem Stecker [FNa1] Copyright C 2001 by State Bar of Michigan; Naseem Stecker It takes perseverance, tenacity, energy, and financial resources to battle the status quo. For Farmington Hills lawyer Richard Bernstein, adversity also features prominently in this scenario. Blind since birth, he found it difficult to get into a good law school without taking the mandatory Law school Admission Test (LSAT), which he says puts blind applicants at a distinct disadvantage. "It used to be that law schools would waive the LSAT for the blind, but this is no longer the case. I had to fight very hard to get it done," Bernstein said. "It was a significant battle and I almost did not go to law school because of the LSAT. I don't know how many disabled people are affected. So many are intimidated by the process that they don't even bother to take the first step." A 1999 graduate of Northwestern University's law school, he was granted a waiver from the LSAT based on his academic record, extracurricular activities, and strong recommendations. Described as an "exceptional and extraordinary student" Bernstein, who now devotes 50 percent of his practice to pro bono cases, is an impassioned advocate for his beliefs. He has appeared on a CBS news show in Detroit to describe his struggle. "Everyone has adversity in their lives--adversity is a tremendous thing. It's a blessing that teaches you to look at a situation from another person's shoes," he said. In this spirit, Bernstein is proposing that schools make the LSAT testing optional rather than mandatory for legally blind students. He maintains that many visually impaired students are under the impression that there is no option other than taking the LSAT. Law school applications in fact require that students complete the LSAT for their applications to be processed. But Bernstein warns that the decision to complete the LSAT can be damaging to blind students' law school prospects, even if appropriate test-taking accommodations are granted. "There are lots of people like myself who are unable to complete the LSAT. They can't perform and do logic games that require charts and diagrams and graphs," he said. "If we keep going in this direction, we'll have a situation in which our lawyers are determined by LSAT scores. It's a ridiculous system and we need to re-examine it." The Law School Admission Test is a standardized test and is administered by the Law School Admissions Council--a nonprofit corporation *47 whose members are 197 law schools in the United States and Canada. The test is made up of four 45-minute multiple choice sections (one reading comprehension section, one analytical reasoning section and two logical reasoning sections) as well as one 30-minute writing sample. The aim is to measure skills that are considered essential to a successful legal education. These include the ability to read and comprehend complex text, managing and organizing information, and processing information to reach conclusions. The score scale for the LSAT is 120 to 180. Typically, the LSAT score is combined with the undergraduate GPA in a calculation designed to measure the student's ability to succeed. Each school tends to use the LSAT and GPA information differently. Joan Van Tol, corporate counsel for the Law School Admissions Council, said the LSAC "provides access to people who have documented the existence of a disability that substantially limits them from taking the LSAT under standard conditions." LSAC figures show that during the last test year (June 1999- February 2000) 155 people claiming visual impairment requested accommodated testing. During the previous year there were 157 requests. Depending on the nature of the disability, the LSAC provides accommodations that include Braille, audiocassettes, the use of a reader, a wheel-chair accessible test center, extra rest time, and additional testing time. For students who require extra time, the LSAC also sends a statement with their report advising the relevant law school to interpret the score with sensitivity and flexibility. Nancy Marshall, information officer for the University of Michigan Law School, said accreditation standards require law schools to test all applicants and if the LSAT is not used, the school must establish that it is using an acceptable alternative. "Yes, the students grade point average is important up to a point, however we do have students who are not in the top numbers because we also look at their extracurricular and employment history," she said. "We also place a great deal of emphasis on the applicant's personal statement and letters of recommendation." One of the top law schools in the nation, the University of Michigan has 10 applications for every slot available. The law school admissions policy has been attacked by two class action suits challenging the university's use of race in the admissions process. Marshall points out that it is precisely the university's policy of looking at the total picture that is the issue in the case. "We look very carefully at all pieces of the application. Other things being equal, a disability would enhance someone's chances of getting in." John Meixner, a philosophy professor at Central Michigan University who advises pre-law students, said the LSAT tends to be a good predictor of how students do in the first year of law school. However, "there are plenty of exceptions and individual law schools realize that. I don't think a poor LSAT score would necessarily rule out students' chances of getting into a good law school." Like many other schools, Northwestern University in Evanston Illinois, where Bernstein attended law school, considers the LSAT a very necessary requirement, although the school also takes into account oral and written communication skills, extra curricular activities, leadership, and work experience as well as career goals. "There isn't a set policy for blind applicants," said Mary Beth Busby, Director of Admissions since 1996. However, since it's a private institution with a smaller entering class, the university can review things case by case. "We are one of the very few universities in this country that conducts a unique interviewing program as part of the applications process. This allows us to find out about other aspects of the students background beyond the LSAT and the GPA," she said. Busby added that it's rare to get a blind applicant and that she has not come across one in the last three years. Northwestern University Professor Steven Lubet, who is a specialist in legal ethics said that under appropriate circumstances, schools should continue to waive the LSAT requirement for blind students. In his opinion, it is "impossible to use the test in a way that would give you an accurate assessment of a blind students' capabilities and it is not a particularly useful tool for measuring people." According to Lubet, while the LSAT tests a student's literate facility with language it cannot measure tenacity, diligence, creativity, open-mindedness, curiosity, empathy, and intelligence--all qualities essential for a good lawyer. Lubet's view is that optional testing as advocated by Bernstein is not something that is going to happen soon because of the influential rankings of law schools by U.S. News and World Report. "A prime criterion in these rankings is the median LSAT score. So the first law school to stop the LSAT would be committing rankings suicide. I'm not saying that's good but it is an undeniable reality." [FNa1]. Naseem Stecker is a staff writer for the Michigan Bar Journal. From bspiry at comcast.net Thu May 21 02:36:03 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 19:36:03 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <330AD7AE3B3042BC9F1D8C58C35E57C1@labarre> References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com><4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> <330AD7AE3B3042BC9F1D8C58C35E57C1@labarre> Message-ID: <000001c9d9bc$e3119870$a934c950$@net> Any idea where one could lay hands on that study? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:19 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Interestingly enough, prior to passage of the ADA, it was quite common for blind law school applicants to receive waivers from taking the LSAT. I got a waiver from Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Berkley, and Minnesota at the time I was applying to law schools in late 89 and into 90. Almost all the other blind folks of which I was aware during that period got waivers from law schools. The law schools understood that for a variety of reasons, the LSAt did not accurately predict how well a blind person would do in law school. In fact, a study conducted some time in the 90's reflected the fact that blind law students did better than their LSAT scores would have predicted. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully >convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who >was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be >done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did >it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he >effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application >package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair >way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it >outside of my conversation with him. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Home: 401-824-8685 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT >> preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law >> school wave the test? >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >>> enroll >>> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >>> not >>> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angie Matney" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> >>>> Hello Haben, >>>> >>>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under >>>> the >>>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>>> starting >>>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>>> >>>> Good Morning, >>>> >>>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? >>>> The >>>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep >>>> books >>>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the >>>> best >>>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>>> >>>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>>> >>>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>>> >>>> Haben >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >>>> il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: >> 05/19/09 06:21:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarre law.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From everett at zufelt.ca Thu May 21 05:35:21 2009 From: everett at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 01:35:21 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] WHAT'S THE SCORE: THE LSAT AND THE BLIND, Michigan Bar Journal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good evening, From my perspective the LSAT was very annoying. And more annoying for me as a blind test taker than for my sighted peers. However, I was fortunate in that LSAC provided me all of the accommodations I requested. After completing the LSAT I was accepted into a Canadian law school which accepts 1 of every 10 applicants and received a large academic entrance scholarship and was in the running for one of three fully funded scholarships. This was after completing only 3 years of my 4 year undergraduate degree. Perhaps Canadian law schools have less rigid entrance requirements. However, from my limited perspective there was little inconvenience or disadvantage in taking the LSAT. HTH, Everett Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 20-May-09, at 8:50 PM, Stephanie Enyart wrote: > Given the dialogue on this issue, I thought some may be interested in > reading more. > ~Stephanie > > Michigan Bar Journal > January, 2001 > > *46 WHAT'S THE SCORE: THE LSAT AND THE BLIND > Naseem Stecker [FNa1] > > Copyright C 2001 by State Bar of Michigan; Naseem Stecker > > It takes perseverance, tenacity, energy, and financial resources to > battle > the status quo. For Farmington Hills lawyer Richard Bernstein, > adversity > also features prominently in this scenario. Blind since birth, he > found it > difficult to get into a good law school without taking the mandatory > Law > school Admission Test (LSAT), which he says puts blind applicants at a > distinct disadvantage. > > "It used to be that law schools would waive the LSAT for the blind, > but > this is no longer the case. I had to fight very hard to get it done," > Bernstein said. "It was a significant battle and I almost did not go > to law > school because of the LSAT. I don't know how many disabled people are > affected. So many are intimidated by the process that they don't > even bother > to take the first step." > > A 1999 graduate of Northwestern University's law school, he was > granted a > waiver from the LSAT based on his academic record, extracurricular > activities, and strong recommendations. Described as an "exceptional > and > extraordinary student" Bernstein, who now devotes 50 percent of his > practice > to pro bono cases, is an impassioned advocate for his beliefs. He has > appeared on a CBS news show in Detroit to describe his struggle. > > "Everyone has adversity in their lives--adversity is a tremendous > thing. > It's a blessing that teaches you to look at a situation from another > person's shoes," he said. > > In this spirit, Bernstein is proposing that schools make the LSAT > testing > optional rather than mandatory for legally blind students. He > maintains that > many visually impaired students are under the impression that there > is no > option other than taking the LSAT. Law school applications in fact > require > that students complete the LSAT for their applications to be > processed. But > Bernstein warns that the decision to complete the LSAT can be > damaging to > blind students' law school prospects, even if appropriate test-taking > accommodations are granted. > > "There are lots of people like myself who are unable to complete > the LSAT. > They can't perform and do logic games that require charts and > diagrams and > graphs," he said. "If we keep going in this direction, we'll have a > situation in which our lawyers are determined by LSAT scores. It's a > ridiculous system and we need to re-examine it." > > The Law School Admission Test is a standardized test and is > administered > by the Law School Admissions Council--a nonprofit corporation *47 > whose > members are 197 law schools in the United States and Canada. The > test is > made up of four 45-minute multiple choice sections (one reading > comprehension section, one analytical reasoning section and two > logical > reasoning sections) as well as one 30-minute writing sample. The aim > is to > measure skills that are considered essential to a successful legal > education. These include the ability to read and comprehend complex > text, > managing and organizing information, and processing information to > reach > conclusions. The score scale for the LSAT is 120 to 180. Typically, > the LSAT > score is combined with the undergraduate GPA in a calculation > designed to > measure the student's ability to succeed. Each school tends to use > the LSAT > and GPA information differently. > > Joan Van Tol, corporate counsel for the Law School Admissions > Council, > said the LSAC "provides access to people who have documented the > existence > of a disability that substantially limits them from taking the LSAT > under > standard conditions." LSAC figures show that during the last test > year (June > 1999- February 2000) 155 people claiming visual impairment requested > accommodated testing. During the previous year there were 157 > requests. > Depending on the nature of the disability, the LSAC provides > accommodations > that include Braille, audiocassettes, the use of a reader, a wheel- > chair > accessible test center, extra rest time, and additional testing > time. For > students who require extra time, the LSAC also sends a statement > with their > report advising the relevant law school to interpret the score with > sensitivity and flexibility. > > Nancy Marshall, information officer for the University of Michigan > Law > School, said accreditation standards require law schools to test all > applicants and if the LSAT is not used, the school must establish > that it is > using an acceptable alternative. > > "Yes, the students grade point average is important up to a point, > however > we do have students who are not in the top numbers because we also > look at > their extracurricular and employment history," she said. "We also > place a > great deal of emphasis on the applicant's personal statement and > letters of > recommendation." > > One of the top law schools in the nation, the University of > Michigan has > 10 applications for every slot available. The law school admissions > policy > has been attacked by two class action suits challenging the > university's use > of race in the admissions process. Marshall points out that it is > precisely > the university's policy of looking at the total picture that is the > issue in > the case. "We look very carefully at all pieces of the application. > Other > things being equal, a disability would enhance someone's chances of > getting > in." > > John Meixner, a philosophy professor at Central Michigan University > who > advises pre-law students, said the LSAT tends to be a good predictor > of how > students do in the first year of law school. However, "there are > plenty of > exceptions and individual law schools realize that. I don't think a > poor > LSAT score would necessarily rule out students' chances of getting > into a > good law school." > > Like many other schools, Northwestern University in Evanston > Illinois, > where Bernstein attended law school, considers the LSAT a very > necessary > requirement, although the school also takes into account oral and > written > communication skills, extra curricular activities, leadership, and > work > experience as well as career goals. > > "There isn't a set policy for blind applicants," said Mary Beth > Busby, > Director of Admissions since 1996. However, since it's a private > institution > with a smaller entering class, the university can review things case > by > case. > > "We are one of the very few universities in this country that > conducts a > unique interviewing program as part of the applications process. > This allows > us to find out about other aspects of the students background beyond > the > LSAT and the GPA," she said. Busby added that it's rare to get a blind > applicant and that she has not come across one in the last three > years. > > Northwestern University Professor Steven Lubet, who is a specialist > in > legal ethics said that under appropriate circumstances, schools should > continue to waive the LSAT requirement for blind students. In his > opinion, > it is "impossible to use the test in a way that would give you an > accurate > assessment of a blind students' capabilities and it is not a > particularly > useful tool for measuring people." According to Lubet, while the > LSAT tests > a student's literate facility with language it cannot measure > tenacity, > diligence, creativity, open-mindedness, curiosity, empathy, and > intelligence--all qualities essential for a good lawyer. > > Lubet's view is that optional testing as advocated by Bernstein is > not > something that is going to happen soon because of the influential > rankings > of law schools by U.S. News and World Report. "A prime criterion in > these > rankings is the median LSAT score. So the first law school to stop > the LSAT > would be committing rankings suicide. I'm not saying that's good but > it is > an undeniable reality." > > [FNa1]. Naseem Stecker is a staff writer for the Michigan Bar Journal. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca From JFreeh at nfb.org Thu May 21 05:58:59 2009 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 00:58:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Reading Rights Coalition Denounces Random House Message-ID: [] FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: cdanielsen at nfb.org Reading Rights Coalition Denounces Random House Random House Has Denied 15 Million Print-Disabled Americans Access to its Books New York City (May 20, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, representing more than 15 million print-disabled Americans, has denounced publishing giant Random House, which has turned off text-to-speech on all of its e-books available for Amazon's Kindle 2 reading service. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "When Random House turned off the text-to-speech function on all of its e-books for the Kindle 2, it turned off access to this service for more than 15 million print-disabled Americans. The blind and other print-disabled readers have the right to purchase e-books using this service with text-to-speech enabled. Blocking text-to-speech prohibits access for print-disabled readers and is both reprehensible and discriminatory. We urge President Obama, whose e-books are now being blocked from over 15 million Americans, to either demand that access be restored or to move to a publisher who does not engage in discrimination." Dr. Cynthia Stuen, Senior Vice President of Policy and Evaluation for Lighthouse International, said: "Having the technology available to give people with impaired vision and other print disabilities equal and timely access to the printed word should be celebrated and encouraged in a civil and just society for all." Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "Random House is callously disregarding the right of American consumers with disabilities to get access to the same content at the same price at the same time as everyone else. Random House's decision to turn off the feature that makes this content accessible to millions of print-disabled Americans is a bad business decision with real human consequences and it must be corrected immediately." Mitch Pomerantz, President of the American Council of the Blind, said: "The recent action by Random House disabling text-to-speech on e-books is the latest and most egregious discriminatory action against the nation's 15 million print-disabled individuals. Random House either doesn't care or doesn't understand the impact this will have on those who would otherwise have equal access to books and other printed materials in the same manner as our non-disabled peers. We must work collaboratively to do everything possible to assure such access for this growing constituency." James Love, Director of Knowledge Ecology International (KEI), said: "KEI is disappointed that Random House is turning off text-to-speech on its Kindle 2 e-books. In a world where access to knowledge is central to everything, Random House certainly understands this action will isolate and marginalize many persons with reading disabilities." K. Eric Larson, Executive Director and CEO of National Spinal Cord Injury Association, said: "All Americans have the right to equal access and many people living with paralysis use text-to-speech capabilities in order to gain that access. Our members are also consumers and "turning off" text-to-speech means that some will not buy books they would otherwise purchase." John R. Sheehan, Chairman of the Xavier Society for the Blind, said: "The Xavier Society for the Blind is committed to the notion that ALL books should be accessible to all people. When a book about Mother Teresa is among those whose text-to-speech functions have been disabled, we fear that we are seeing the beginning of a blanket cut-off of a function that should be open and available to all, especially (but not exclusively) to those with visual impairments or other problems that limit access to printed materials." When Amazon released the Kindle 2 e-book reading service on February 9, 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e-books aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the Authors Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give publishers the ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their e-books available for the Kindle 2 service. Random House is the first publisher to turn off text-to-speech on all of its e-books and thus deny the rights of print-disabled people across America. The Reading Rights coalition includes the blind, people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, seniors losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering from strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the Kindle 2 promises for the first time easy, mainstream access to over 270,000 books. For more information about the Reading Rights Coalition, please visit www.readingrights.org. To sign our petition, go to http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/We-Want-To-Read. If you are an author who supports our cause, please send your contact information to readingrights at nfb.org. ### -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 683204d.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4660 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu May 21 14:58:07 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 09:58:07 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Obama Official Will Deliver Keynote Address at ABA Conference on Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities Message-ID: ________________________________ From: Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law [mailto:cmpdl at abanet.org] Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:45 AM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: Obama Official Will Deliver Keynote Address at ABA Conference on Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities If you cannot view this email, click here. Obama Official Will Deliver Keynote Address at ABA Conference on Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities The ABA is pleased to announce that Kareem A. Dale, Associate Director, White House Office of Public Engagement & Special Assistant to the President for [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/Dale.jpg] Disability Policy, will be delivering a keynote address at the Conference. Mr. Dale, a lawyer with a disability, coordinates the Obama Administration's efforts to see that people with disabilities are on a level playing field with all Americans. * For more information and to register, click here [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/2009conferencelogoTRANS_dale_email.jpg] Following the conference, registrants are invited to attend the Minority Corporate Counsel Association's Mid-Atlantic Diversity Dinner taking place on June 16th 5:30pm-8:30pm at the JW Marriott in Washington, DC. The dinner will honor the law departments of XO Holdings, Inc. and Duke Energy Corporation as the 2009 Employer's of Choice for the Mid-Atlantic Region. The evening offers a unique opportunity to reflect upon the accomplishments of law departments and firms in the region whose leadership has helped reshape diversity in the legal profession as well as offer quality networking with some of the area's leading in-house counsel. For registration and information please visit www.mcca.com or contact Jennifer Chen at 202-739-5902. ________________________________ Your e-mail address will only be used within the ABA and its entities. We do not sell or rent e-mail addresses to anyone outside the ABA. Update your profile | Unsubscribe | Privacy Policy American Bar Association | 321 N Clark | Chicago, IL 60654 | 1-800-285-2221 From info at michaelhingson.com Thu May 21 18:35:04 2009 From: info at michaelhingson.com (Michael Hingson) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 13:35:04 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] KnfbReader Mobile to be demonstrated next Tuesday May 26th Message-ID: KNFB Reader Mobile to be demonstrated this coming Tuesday, May 26, 2009 This coming Tuesday Michael Hingson, Director of National KnfbReader Mobile Sales for the National Federation of the Blind, and the NFB sales team will demonstrate the exciting KnfbReader Mobile Reader - featuring the first cell phone that reads and translates print into voice. The knfb Reader Mobile is a major advancement in print access for the Blind. The software, delivered on a multifunction cell phone, allows the user To snap pictures of any printed material and have it read aloud immediately. The first of its kind, the pocket-sized device allows individuals to Have print analyzed and read aloud in real time and in real life situations. The latest version is now able to read in a variety of languages Including French, German, Dutch, Belgian Dutch, Italian, and Castilian. Additionally, the software is able to translate between languages, displaying and reading aloud in English translated text. The reader also can read U.S. Currency on demand. Michael Hingson says, "The KnfbReader Mobile is the only truly portable reading system available to blind and other print handicapped individuals which will read almost any printed information aloud." "This on-line demonstration will give people a close-up look at the Reader. We will be taking questions after the actual demonstration." The demonstration will include a discussion of the product cost and availability. The NFB Reader Sales team will also be introduced. "There has never been a better time to consider owning one of these wonderful devices", Hingson states. Contact: Michael Hingson Email: info at michaelhingson.com 888-965-9191 Date: Tuesday May 26, 2009. Time: 8:00 P.M. Eastern, 7:00 P.M. Central, 6:00 P.M. Mountain, 5:00 P.M. Pacific, and elsewhere in the world 01:00 GMT Wednesday May 27. Where: KnfbReader Mobile conference room: which you can locate by clicking on the following link: Enter the Conference Room Here Or, alternatively, http://74.208.96.53/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rsb18eeae3cfd2. After reaching the conference room entry page follow the instructions to enter the conference room itself. No password is required. We will record the event and put it on Michael Hingson's web site http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com so if you are unable to participate live at the above times then you may download the presentation or podcast from the website listed above. This online interactive program requires no password, is free of Charge, and open to anyone worldwide having an Internet connection, a Computer, speakers, and a sound card. Those with microphones can interact audibly with the presenters and others in the virtual audience. If you are a first-time user of the Talking Communities online conferencing software, there is a small, safe software program that you need to download and then run. A link to the software is available On the entry screen to the online conference room. The Michael Hingson Group "Speaking with Vision" Michael Hingson, President (415) 827-4084 info at michaelhingson.com www.michaelhingson.com for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit: http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com http://michaelhingson.com/images/knfbReader-michael_hingson.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: c8a470.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3059 bytes Desc: not available URL: From johnrsheehan at yahoo.com Fri May 22 12:29:48 2009 From: johnrsheehan at yahoo.com (John Sheehan) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 05:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] KnfbReader Mobile to be demonstrated next Tuesday May 26th In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <848328.46533.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com> FYI - Could be an informative add for the Xavier Review   Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ Residence: 53 E 83rd St New York, NY 10028 Room Phone: 212 606-3420 Cell: 646 853-1820 Blog: www.frjohnsj.blogspot.com Office: Xavier Society for the Blind 154 E. 23rd St NYC 10010 212 473-7800, ext 119 Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you. ________________________________ From: Michael Hingson To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:35:04 PM Subject: [blindlaw] KnfbReader Mobile to be demonstrated next Tuesday May 26th KNFB Reader Mobile to be demonstrated this coming Tuesday, May 26, 2009 This coming Tuesday Michael Hingson, Director of National KnfbReader Mobile Sales for the National Federation of the Blind, and the NFB sales team  will demonstrate the exciting KnfbReader Mobile Reader - featuring the first cell phone that reads and translates print into voice. The knfb Reader Mobile is a major advancement in print access for the   Blind.  The software, delivered on a multifunction cell phone, allows the user   To snap pictures of any printed material and have it read aloud immediately.   The first of its kind, the pocket-sized device allows individuals to   Have print analyzed and read aloud in real time and in real life situations.   The latest version is now able to read in a variety of languages   Including French, German, Dutch, Belgian Dutch, Italian, and Castilian.   Additionally, the software is able to translate between languages, displaying and reading aloud in English translated text. The reader also can read U.S. Currency on demand. Michael Hingson says, "The KnfbReader Mobile is the only truly portable reading system available to blind and other print handicapped individuals which will read almost any printed information aloud."  "This on-line demonstration will give people a close-up look at the Reader.  We will be taking questions after the actual demonstration." The demonstration will include a discussion of the product cost and availability.  The NFB Reader Sales team will also be introduced.  "There has never been a better time to consider owning one of these wonderful devices", Hingson states.   Contact: Michael Hingson   Email:  info at michaelhingson.com   888-965-9191   Date:  Tuesday May 26, 2009.   Time:  8:00 P.M. Eastern, 7:00 P.M. Central, 6:00 P.M. Mountain, 5:00 P.M. Pacific, and elsewhere in the world 01:00 GMT Wednesday May 27.   Where:  KnfbReader Mobile conference room: which you can locate by clicking on the following link: Enter the Conference Room Here   Or, alternatively,   http://74.208.96.53/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rsb18eeae3cfd2. After reaching the conference room entry page follow the instructions to enter the conference room itself.  No password is required.   We will record the event and put it on Michael Hingson's web site http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com so if you are unable to participate live at the above times then you may download the presentation or podcast from the website listed above.   This online interactive program requires no password, is free of   Charge, and open to anyone worldwide having an Internet connection, a   Computer, speakers, and a sound card. Those with microphones can   interact audibly with the presenters and others in the virtual   audience.   If you are a first-time user of the Talking Communities online   conferencing software, there is a small, safe software program that   you need to download and then run. A link to the software is available   On the entry screen to the online conference room. The Michael Hingson Group     "Speaking with Vision"                 Michael Hingson, President                         (415) 827-4084                   info at michaelhingson.com                   www.michaelhingson.com for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit: http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com http://michaelhingson.com/images/knfbReader-michael_hingson.jpg From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri May 22 18:24:02 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 13:24:02 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Job opening in Yakima for bilingual staff attorney - Ref#18881096 Message-ID: FULL‐TIME STAFF ATTORNEY Yakima County Office POSITION: TeamChild is seeking a full‐time bilingual staff attorney to assist in implementing a three‐year grant funded project that expands our services to youth in Benton and Franklin counties. This position is made possible through a grant from the Center for Children and Youth Justice (www.ccyj.org) as one of a number of projects that will be replicated under a larger grant. Primary job duties include legal outreach, advice and representation of youth who are at risk of or already involved in the juvenile justice system to help address their education, housing, and health care needs. Duties also include community education and collaboration on community based projects that serve TeamChild's client base. The position will be based in our Yakima office. QUALIFICATIONS: We are seeking candidates who are respectful and open to working with people from diverse backgrounds, enjoy creative problem solving, value the creation of relationships across disciplines, have strong organizational and administrative skills, work well both independently and as a team member, and are enthusiastic about being a part of an innovative method of advocacy. Additional qualifications include: ? Bilingual written and oral Spanish language proficiency ? Member in good standing of the Washington State Bar ? Strong oral and written communication skills ? Exceptional legal skills, preferably in the relevant areas of law (school discipline/special education, Medicaid/EPSDT, delinquency, child welfare, or other areas of youth law) ? Experience working with young people, especially 12‐18 year olds ? Demonstrated competence in working with diverse clients and client communities ? Connections to Benton and Franklin Counties ? Demonstrated ability to collaborate effectively with other advocates and client groups ? Sense of humor SALARY AND BENEFITS: Salary dependent upon experience. Generous benefits included. TEAMCHILD: TeamChild is a Washington State nonprofit civil legal services program for youth with offices in King, Pierce, Spokane, Snohomish and Yakima Counties. TeamChild works closely with public defenders, probation officers and others in the juvenile justice system, and provides legal representation to youth on their rights to education, Medicaid, safe and stable housing, mental health treatment, and other social services. TeamChild is a nationally recognized, innovative interdisciplinary model of advocacy that works to secure community‐based services for young people, with the goal of addressing many of the problems underlying their criminal behavior. APPLICATION PROCESS: ? Read the Staff Attorney Application instructions. ? Mail or email your letter of interest and resume to: Anne Lee, Executive Director, TeamChild, 1225 South Weller St., Suite 420, Seattle, WA 98144 or jobs at teamchild.org. ? Open until filled. ? Questions? Call (206) 322‐2444, ext. 102. TeamChild is committed to promoting an environment free of barriers and discriminatory practices for its clients, Board and staff. ~~~~~ Rachel S. Black | Susman Godfrey L.L.P. 1201 Third Avenue | Suite 3800 | Seattle, WA 98101 Phone: 206-516-3899 | Fax: 206-516-3883 rblack at susmangodfrey.com | www.susmangodfrey.com This message may be protected by the attorney client privilege or the work product doctrine. ________________________________________ View and comment online: https://www.bigtent.com/group/forum/message/18881096 HINT: When replying by email, please do not include the original message. ---------- Advertisement ---------- Special offer for BigTent Groups: Order flowers from ProFlowers for a graduation, a birthday, an anniversary or just because and get a FREE vase with every order! http://tinyurl.com/prbtso From dandrews at visi.com Fri May 22 20:27:26 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 15:27:26 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Agenda for 2009 NFB Convention Message-ID: The National Federation of the Blind Logo 2009 ANNUAL CONVENTION DETROIT, MICHIGAN JULY 3 to JULY 8 Text box Whozit THE MEMBERS OF THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF MICHIGAN WELCOME YOU TO THE 69th ANNUAL CONVENTION OF THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND Marc Maurer, President National Federation of the Blind 1800 Johnson Street Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Mary Ellen Jernigan Executive Director for Operations and Chairwoman, Convention Organization and Activities Fred Wurtzel, President National Federation of the Blind of Michigan 1212 North Foster Avenue Lansing, Michigan 48912-3309 Detroit Marriott® at the Renaissance Center Renaissance Center (313) 568-8000 Courtyard by Marriott® 333 E. Jefferson Avenue (313) 222-7700 DETROIT MARRIOTT The 69th annual convention of the National Federation of the Blind is being held in Michigan at the Detroit Marriott® at the Renaissance Center. As usual, our hotel rates are very good: singles and doubles $62, triples $66, and quads $68. In addition to the room rates, there is a 15 percent sales tax. There is no charge for children under eighteen in the room with parents as long as no extra bed is required. Proof of convention registration is necessary, including the showing of an NFB registration badge if requested. Otherwise, regular hotel rates must be paid. The Detroit Marriott is a seventy-two story round hotel in the middle of a larger complex of buildings known as the Renaissance Center. The lowest level is the Motor Lobby where people arriving by taxis and automobiles enter the hotel. There are bellmen at this entrance and elevators going directly to the main lobby of the hotel, which is located on Level Three. All hotel meeting rooms, ballrooms, and the exhibit hall are on Levels Three, Four, and Five. A bank of twelve elevators is located in the center of the hotel in a corridor oriented along the east-west axis of the building. The first six elevators at the west end of the corridor (three on each side) serve floors three through forty. The next six elevators (three on each side) serve floors three, four, five, and forty through seventy. Just beyond each end of the elevator corridor a set of escalators serves Levels Three, Four, and Five. To reach the main hotel lobby you should leave the elevator corridor heading west. The hotel restaurant (Forty-two Degrees North) and Volt (a bar which also serves an extensive array of food) can be entered from the main lobby. Many other food outlets including a large food court are located on Levels A, One, and Two in the Renaissance Center complex. The easiest way to exit the hotel proper into other parts of the Renaissance Center Complex is to use an escalator located near the Coach Insignia Restaurant elevator at the south end of Level Three of the hotel. The Detroit Marriott has a smoke-free policy. COURTYARD MARRIOTT The Courtyard Marriott is connected to Level Two of the Renaissance Center Complex by an enclosed overhead walkway. It may also be reached by leaving the Renaissance Center at Level One through the Jefferson Lobby. We are using both sleeping rooms and meeting space in the Courtyard Marriott. A group of Whozits marching together. “MOTOR CITY” MARCH FOR INDEPENDENCE: SUPPORTING OUR IMAGINATION FUND CAMPAIGN On Monday, July 6, we open the convention with our spectacular third March for Independence. Marching through downtown Detroit, we will celebrate our liberty among friends, family members, and supporters. Please gather for this fundraising and “friend-raising” walk-a-thon and rally at 6:45 Monday morning in the Wintergarden on Level A of the Detroit Marriott. Most of the route is along the beautiful RiverWalk promenade and culminates with a rally in Rivard Plaza. Marcher drop-in briefing sessions are on Sunday, July 5, from 7:00 to 10:00 pm. Let’s walk together to make the Motor City March a truly magnificent event. NFB OF MICHIGAN HOSPITALITY DANCE! Our host affiliate invites you to celebrate with them by renewing old friendships and/or forming new ones on Monday, July 6, at 7:00 pm in the Ambassador Ballroom, Level 3. Entertainment by “Nine,” a nine-piece band that will perform Motown, soul, classic rock, pop, and old standards­guaranteed to create an exciting atmosphere and stir pleasant memories. ROOKIE ROUNDUP Rookie Roundup Logo All first-time convention attendees are cordially invited to attend a reception from 8:00 to 10:00 pm on Friday, July 3, in the Ambassador Ballroom One, Level 3. President Maurer and other Federation leaders will be on hand to welcome you to the convention and preview the week’s activities. Veteran conventioneers should urge all first-timers to attend this special event. Also, first-time rookies are invited to join an informal, fun gathering on Sunday, July 5, from 12:00 noon to 2:00 pm in the Affiliate Action Suite 6801. REGISTRATION & PREREGISTRATION Registration activities take place in the Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 beginning at 9:00 am on Saturday, July 4; at 8:30 am on Sunday, July 5; and at other times as listed throughout the week. The fee for registration at convention is $20 per person (if you preregistered before May 31, the fee was $15), and all those attending the convention (both local and out of town people) are asked to register. Convention registration is a requirement for door prize eligibility and a number of other convention activities. We condition rates for hotel rooms on proof of registration, including the showing of an NFB registration badge if requested. Therefore, please register as soon as possible after arrival. EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET Exhibits and the NFB Independence Market are located in the Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3. The exhibit hall hours are: Saturday 9:00 am to 5:00 pm Sunday 8:30 am to 5:00 pm Monday Noon to 1:45 pm; sponsors only from 7:00-10:00 pm Tuesday Noon to 1:45 pm­Note: This is the final time that Independence Market and Literature will be open. Tuesday 7:00 to 10:00 pm­Exhibit Hall only; Independence Market and Literature closed) There is a special event for sponsor-level exhibitors only on Monday, July 6, from 7:00 to 10:00 pm (see “Special Attention” section and agenda listing for more information). Sign up for NFB-NEWSLINE® at the NEWSLINE table, check the agenda for times to visit Room 6401 to learn about it, or call local number (313) 483-1147 to use NEWSLINE at convention. Any alterations in the general session schedule which may occur during the convention will result in conforming shifts in the exhibit schedule and will be announced in the exhibit areas. A number of affiliated NFB divisions and committees have tables. Many new electronic devices are demonstrated, as well as a special exhibit of materials and resources for the deaf-blind. MEETINGS General sessions of the convention are being held in the Renaissance Ballroom, Level 4 on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. The morning sessions convene at 9:30 am on Monday, and 9:00 am on Tuesday and Wednesday. The convention adjourns promptly at 5:00 pm on Wednesday, July 8. Please note that all requests for announcements by Dr. Maurer during general sessions must be submitted in Braille. BANQUET AND BANQUET TICKET EXCHANGE The banquet is being held in the Renaissance Ballroom, Level 4 at 7:00 pm, Wednesday, July 8. Banquet tickets purchased at convention are $40.00 (the cost was $35 if purchased before May 31) and are on sale during registration on Saturday and Sunday, and from noon to 12:30 and 1:30 to 2:00 pm on Monday. No banquet tickets will be available for purchase after Monday. It will be necessary to have your banquet ticket with you to attend the banquet; it will be collected at the banquet table. Arrangements should be made for reserved table assignments by taking the ticket(s) you purchase to the Banquet Exchange Table in the registration area, where you may exchange either an individual ticket or a group of tickets for reserved seating. Banquet tables seat ten people. RELIGIOUS SERVICES AND DEVOTIONS On Sunday, July 5, Fr. Gregory Paul, C.P., will celebrate a Roman Catholic Mass at 7:15 am in Ambassador Ballroom One, Level 3. Also on Sunday at 11:45 am services for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will be held in Ambassador Ballroom One, Level 3. Devotional services will be held in Ambassador Ballroom One, Level 3, at 7:30 am on Tuesday, and 8:00 am on Wednesday. Please note there is no service on Monday morning. Services are nonsectarian and will end at least fifteen minutes prior to morning convention sessions. knfbReader MOBILE THE CELL PHONE THAT READS PRINT With the power of digital photography and unique cell phone software, reading print on the go wherever you are is now possible for blind people. Come and learn about this fabulous, life-changing technology in the exhibit hall and at demonstration and training sessions planned in the afternoon on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday and in the evening on Tuesday. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! SPECIAL ATTENTION IS CALLED TO THE FOLLOWING ITEMS • A Federation Information Desk will be in the registration area from Saturday morning, July 4, through Wednesday, July 8, if you have questions or need assistance. The Michigan affiliate will also maintain a table near the hotel check in desk in the main lobby to provide assistance and hospitality during much of the convention. • When you register, you will be given a badge. Please wear it at all times during the convention. • The room number for the Presidential Suite is 7010. Someone will be on hand in the Presidential Suite throughout most of the convention to greet you and make appointments for you with the President or anyone else you wish to see. The Presidential Suite will not be open during the business sessions of the convention, the Sunday morning Board of Directors meeting, Monday morning (due to the Independence March), or the Wednesday evening banquet. Come to the Presidential Suite. You will be most welcome. • The room number for Mary Ellen Jernigan, Chairwoman of Convention Organization and Activities, is 6910. Questions concerning hotel rooms, meeting rooms, banquet, scheduling, registration, and other matters dealing with convention arrangements should be referred to the Chairwoman of Convention Organization and Activities. • Individuals needing to conduct business with the NFB Treasurer may do so by going to the DaVinci Room, Level 4 on Monday, July 6, between 5:30 and 7:30 pm, or on Tuesday, July 7, between 12:00 noon and 2:00 pm. • The Michigan Suite (Fred Wurtzel, President) is 6805. • The Affiliate Action and Rookie Activities Suite (Joanne Wilson and Pam Allen, Coordinators) is 6801. • We are again offering NFB Camp (child-care services) for children six weeks through ten years of age in Marquette A and B Rooms, Level 5 during convention sessions, most meetings, and the banquet. Preregistration and payment by June 15 were required for NFB Camp. NFB Camp is organized and supervised by Carla McQuillan, the executive director of Main Street Montessori Association. Alison McQuillan, camp worker and teacher since 1998, is the activities director. Please note that NFB Camp provides morning and afternoon snacks, but parents are required to provide lunch for their child(ren) every day. Times listed are the opening and closing times for NFB Camp. A late fee of $10 will be assessed for all late pickups. NFB Camp hours: Friday, 7/3 8:30 am to 5:30 pm Saturday, 7/4 Closed Sunday, 7/5 8:30 am to 12:30 pm and 1:00 to 5:30 pm Monday, 7/6 9:00 am to 12:30 pm and 1:30 to 5:30 pm Tuesday, 7/7 8:30 am to 12:30 pm and 1:30 to 5:30 pm Wednesday, 7/8 8:30 am to 12:30 pm and 1:30 to 5:30 pm Banquet 7/8 6:30 pm to 30 minutes after closing • A Special Evening For Sponsor-Level Exhibitors: Again this year, the exhibit hall will reopen from 7:00 to 10:00 pm on Monday, July 6, for a very special evening dedicated solely to Sponsor-Level Exhibitors listed here. Come and bring a guest to say “thank you” to our sponsors and to enjoy their interesting offers and demonstrations. Our convention sponsors are­Platinum: HumanWare and UPS; Gold: Deque Systems, Inc., Freedom Scientific, and Oracle; Silver: En-Vision America, Intel®, and Wal-Mart; Bronze: Adobe, Council of U.S. Dog Guide Schools (CUSDGS), IBM, Independent Living Aids (ILA), and Microsoft; Exhibit Hall: GW Micro, J&B Medical Supply, National Industries for the Blind, ReadHowYouWant, and Roche Diagnostics. • The ever-popular Showcase of Talent is back again at 7:00 pm on Tuesday, July 7, presented by the Performing Arts Division. Admission price is $5.00. If you would like to participate in the Showcase, make sure to sign up early by contacting Beth Allred at the convention. • Raffle tickets will not be sold in the registration area, and no raffles or other such drawings will take place during convention sessions or at the banquet. The single exception to this rule will be that national divisions may (if they request it in advance) conduct such drawings during the convention or at the banquet. LaSalle A Room, Level 5 will be set aside at 12:00 noon on Wednesday, July 8, for all other drawings. Any group or affiliate wishing to conduct drawings at this time (or any person wishing to know the winners) may go at noon on Wednesday to the LaSalle A Room. AFFILIATED DIVISIONS, COMMITTEES, AND GROUPS The Federation carries on its business through divisions, committees, and groups. The meetings of some of these have been scheduled for particular times and are listed in the agenda. Others have not been formally scheduled but will meet at the call of their chairpersons or presidents. If you have matters that you would like to discuss with any of the following divisions, committees, or groups, you should contact: Divisions: • Agriculture and Equestrian: Fred Chambers, President; • Assistive Technology Trainers: Michael Barber, President; • Classics, Antiques, and Rods or Special Interest Vehicles (CARS): Joseph B. Naulty, President; • Deaf-Blind: Burnell Brown, President; • Diabetes Action Network for the Blind: Michael Freeman, President; • Human Services: Melissa Riccobono, President; • National Association of the Blind in Communities of Faith: Tom Anderson, President; • National Association of Blind Entrepreneurs: James R. Bonerbo, President; • National Association of Blind Lawyers: Scott LaBarre, President; • National Association of Blind Merchants: Kevan Worley, President; • National Association of Blind Office Professionals: Lisa Hall, President; • National Association of Blind Piano Technicians: Don Mitchell, President; • National Association of Blind Rehabilitation Professionals: Melody Lindsey, President; • National Association of Blind Students: Terri Rupp, President; • National Association of Blind Veterans: Dwight Sayer, President; • National Association of Guide Dog Users: Marion Gwizdala, President; • National Association to Promote the Use of Braille (NAPUB): Nadine Jacobson, President; • National Federation of the Blind in Computer Science: Curtis Chong, President; • National Federation of the Blind Krafters: Joyce Kane, President; • National Federation of the Blind Seniors: Judy Sanders, President; • National Organization of Blind Educators: Sheila Koenig, President; • National Organization of Parents of Blind Children (NOPBC): Carol Castellano, President; • Performing Arts: Dennis Holston, President; • Public Employees: Ivan Weich, President; • Science and Engineering: John Miller, President; • Sports and Recreation: Lisamaria Martinez, President; • Travel and Tourism: Don Gillmore, President; • Writers: Robert Leslie Newman, President. Committees: • Ambassadors: Angela Wolf, Chairperson; • Blind Educator of the Year Award: David Ticchi, Chairperson; • Committee on Assistive Technology (COAT): Curtis Chong, Chairperson; • Committee on Automobile and Pedestrian Safety (CAPS): Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson; • Committee to Empower Underserved Populations (CEUP): Ron Brown, Chairperson; • Cultural Exchange and International Program: Diane McGeorge, Chairperson; • Distinguished Educator of Blind Children Award: Joyce Scanlan, Chairperson; • Employment: Buna Dahal, Chairperson; • Imagination Fund: Kevan Worley, Chairperson; • Jacobus tenBroek Award: Ramona Walhof, Chairperson; • Jacobus tenBroek Memorial Fund: Tami Jones, Chairperson; • Kenneth Jernigan Fund: Allen Harris, Chairperson; • Library Services: David Hyde, Chairperson; • Loan Fund: Donald C. Capps, Chairperson; • Membership: Ron Gardner, Chairperson; • Newel Perry Award: Allen Harris, Chairperson; • Newsletter Publications: Norma Crosby, Chairperson; • NFB-NEWSLINE® Program Steering: David DeNotaris, Chairperson; • PAC Plan: Scott LaBarre, Chairperson; • Planned Giving: John Halverson, Chairperson; • Promotion, Evaluation, and Advancement of Technology: Gary Wunder, Chairperson; • Public Relations: Barbara Pierce, Chairperson; • Research and Development: Curtis Chong, Chairperson; • Resolutions: Sharon Maneki, Chairperson; • Scholarship: Anil Lewis, Chairperson; • Shares Unlimited in NFB (SUN): Sandy Halverson, Chairperson; • Spanish Translation: Norman Gardner, Chairperson; • White Cane and Affiliate Finance: Alpidio Rolón, Chairperson. Groups: • Blind Musicians: Linda Mentink, Chairperson; • Blind Parents: Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson; • Blind Professional Journalists: Elizabeth Campbell and Bryan Bashin, Co-Chairpersons; • Educators of Blind Children: Gail Wagner, Chairperson; • Geordi's Engineers: Lorraine Rovig, Chairperson; • Legislative Initiatives Discussion: Don Burns, Coordinator; • Living History: Michael Freholm, Chairperson; • NFB Ham Radio: D. Curtis Willoughby, Chairperson; • NFB in Judaism: David Stayer, Chairperson; • NFB Lions: Ramona Walhof and Milton Ota, Co-Chairpersons; • Orientation and Mobility: Edward C. Bell, Chairperson; • Professionals in Blindness Education: Heather Field, Chairperson; • Webmasters: Gary Wunder, Chairperson. CONVENTION AGENDA Whozit FRIDAY, JULY 3, 2009 7:30 - 8:45 am­HAM RADIO GROUP EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS Raphael Room, Level 4 Discuss hotel frequencies and architectural features and distributing special FM receivers for the hearing-impaired and Spanish-speaking attendees. D. Curtis Willoughby (KA0VBA), Chairperson 7:45 am - 6:30 pm­THE FUTURE IS OURS AND THEIRS Parent, Rehabilitation, and Orientation & Mobility Joint Conference for Families and Rehabilitation Professionals (7:45 - 8:45 am­Registration and coffee; 12:00 to 2:00 pm­NBPCB Awards Luncheon, Ambassador Three Ballroom) Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 NOPBC Fees: Adults $30; Youth (13-18) $20; Children (5-12) $10 NABRP Fees (includes lunch): Students $75; Professionals $100 Note: Conference admission included with either registration above. Sponsors: National Organization of Parents of Blind Children (NOPBC); National Blindness Professional Certification Board (NBPCB); National Association of Blind Rehabilitation Professionals (NABRP); and the Professional Development & Research Institute on Blindness (PDRIB) at the Louisiana Tech University. Chairpersons: Carol Castellano and Edward Bell 8:00 am - 4:30 pm­PROFESSIONALS IN BLINDNESS EDUCATION Duluth B Room, Level 5 Heather Field, Chairperson 8:30 am­NFB CAMP: IT’S MORE THAN CHILD’S PLAY (CHILD CARE) Marquette A and B Rooms, Level 5 Please see “Special Attention” section of agenda for further information. (Preregistration by June 15 was required.) 8:30 - 11:30 am­WHAT’S NEW IN JAWS 10 AND MAGic 11, AND A FIRST LOOK AT JAWS 11­FREEDOM SCIENTIFIC, INC. Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 Join Eric Damery, JAWS Product Manager, for an exciting and informative session covering all of the new details surrounding JAWS and MAGic development. This will also be the first look at JAWS 11 scheduled for public beta in August and includes a demo of Windows 7. Bring questions! Whozit FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 8:30 am - 5:00 pm­IBTC’S ACCESS TECHNOLOGY SEMINARS Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 8:30 - 10:00 am­Mobile productivity on cell phones. 10:30 am - noon­Create DAISY books from your desktop. 1:30 - 3:00 pm­Web 2.0 features with screen access software. 3:30 - 5:00 pm­Lesser-known names in screen access software. 9:00 am - 12:00 noon­GW MICRO: BRAILLE SENSE PLUS AND VOICE SENSE­Registration $10; Refreshments provided. Nicolet A Room, Level 5 The Braille Sense Plus is the lightest note taker with a 32-cell Braille display, and the Voice Sense is the smallest note taker. Learn about the features of GW note takers including the GW Sense Navigation GPS. Presenters: Raul Gallegos and Chris Park. To register, call (260) 489-3671. 9:00 am - 5:00 pm­NFB YOUTH TRACK SESSIONS (ages 14-18) Sponsored by NFB Jernigan Institute; Mary Jo Thorpe, Coordinator Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 9:00 - 10:15 am­PARENTS-REHAB SEMINAR Cascade B Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott 10:30 am - 12:00 noon­ALL ABOUT ME Help shape the future of youth outreach for the NFB. 2:00 - 3:00 pm­BACK & BICEPS, CHEST & TRICEPS Learn the “ropes” about working out in a gym. 3:30 - 5:00 pm­ME AND YOUTUBE An interactive YouTube activity for teens. 9:00 am - 10:00 pm­NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATIONS Room 6401, 60th floor 9:00-11:00 am, 2:00-6:00 pm, and 8:30-10:00 pm­Learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 11:30 am -1:30 pm­Affiliate presidents’ gathering. Learn about NFB- NEWSLINE Online and how to promote NEWSLINE. 6:30 - 8:00 pm­Exhibit for parents and their blind children (ages 10+). Whozit FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 10:00 am - 5:00 pm­EMPLOYMENT COMMITTEE SEMINAR Richard B Room, Level 5 10:00 am–Registration; 10:30 am–Seminar begins Key strategies for job hunting: How? Where? What? Remember, innovation and authenticity produce abundant opportunities. Gain the secrets of obtaining and maintaining employment. Buna Dahal, Chairperson 10:15 am - 12:00 noon­NOPBC BRAILLE CARNIVAL (ages 5-13) Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 1:00 - 3:00 pm­PAC MATE, BEYOND NOTE TAKING­FREEDOM SCIENTIFIC, INC. Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 Join Jonathan Mosen as we explore the power of PAC Mate Omni, from beaming your KNFB Reader Mobile documents to be read in Braille, to watching TV right from your PAC Mate Omni. See our new StreetTalk VIP GPS solution in action. 1:00 - 3:00 pm­WRITERS DIVISION WORKSHOP ($5.00 fee) Room 6405, 60th floor Visit with a published author. Robert Leslie Newman, President 1:00 - 4:00 pm­SWIM CLINIC; SPORTS & REC DIVISION Pool, Courtyard Marriott Annie Sawicki, part of the AdapTap team (that designed an award-winning device by blind swimmers), is conducting a swimming workshop. Take a break with a cool dip in the pool. Lisamaria Martinez, President 1:00 - 5:00 pm­HUMANWARE PRODUCT SHOWCASE AND USER GROUPS LaSalle A and B Rooms, Level 5 Sessions: 1:00 Breeze; 2:00 BrailleNote; 3:00 Stream; 4:00 Mobile Devices Join HumanWare and other users to learn about recent updates and share product tips. Ask questions and give us your suggestions for your favorite HumanWare product. Door Prizes for every session! 1:30 - 2:45 pm­knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print­it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! Whozit FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 2:00 - 3:30 pm­NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS One-Two Buckle My Shoe, Three-Four Out the Door Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Developmental timelines from preschool through elementary. Instructors: Debbi Head, Heather Field, Annee Hartzell Show Me the Technology: Middle School/High School Renoir Room, Level 4 What is needed, how to work with the school to get it, and what to do when all else fails. Instructors: Dr. Matt Maurer and Al Lovati Literacy for All Skyline B Room, Courtyard Marriott Large print? Braille? Both? How to tell what is best for your child. Great Expectations: Mobility Instruction and Blind Children with Additional Disabilities Skyline A Room, Courtyard Marriott High expectations, real life goals, and how to achieve them in the area of independent travel. Instructor: Denise Mackenstadt 2:00 - 5:00 pm­NOPBC TRIP TO PENRICKTON CENTER Meeting place to be announced Parents of children with significant multiple disabilities can visit this center which uses the Active Learning techniques of Lilli Nielsen. 2:00 - 5:00 pm­NOPBC SESSIONS FOR CHILDREN AND YOUTH (Note to parents: Volunteers will accompany the children from one workshop to the other.) Not-so-mad Scientists: Hands-on Chemistry Experiments: Cascade D Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Dr. Andrew Greenberg, Cary Supalo, Marilyn Winograd, and Dr. Lillian Rankel 2:00 – 3:30 pm­For Kindergarten through Grade 5 3:30 – 5:00 pm­For Grades 6 through 12 Whozit FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued NOPBC SESSIONS FOR CHILDREN AND YOUTH, Cont’d. Tactile Drawings and Representations: Cascade C Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Ann Cunningham and Debbie Kent Stein 2:00 – 3:30 pm­For Grades 6 through 12 3:30 – 5:00 pm­For Kindergarten through Grade 5 2:00 - 5:00 pm­GW MICRO: WINDOW-EYES TRAINING (Registration $10; Refreshments provided) Nicolet A Room, Level 5 Explore the power of Window-Eyes with advanced scripting support, Office 2007, Windows Vista, and Windows 7. Come to see the best support for the Internet in a screen reader. Presenters: Raul Gallegos and Chris Park. To register, call (260) 489-3671. 2:00 - 7:00 pm­KRAFTERS KORNER Richard A Room, Level 5 Meet some talented Federation crafters and purchase their beautiful hand-made items for sale. Joyce Kane, Krafters Division President 3:00 - 4:30 pm­MAKING THE MOST OF YOUR JERNIGAN INSTITUTE (Workshop One; Workshop Two is on Saturday at 4:00 pm) Brulé A Room, Level 5 Attendees will learn the latest information about the Institute and about how they can utilize its programs to build the organization at the local level. We expect the discussion to spark new, imaginative ideas for future programs. Led by Mark Riccobono, Jernigan Institute Executive Director. 3:00 - 4:45 pm­ knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print­it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 3:00 - 5:00 pm­NATIONAL ASSOC. OF BLIND ENTREPRENEURS Brulé B Room, Level 5 James R. Bonerbo, President Whozit FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 3:30 - 4:50 pm­NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS Access for Everyone Skyline A Room, Courtyard Marriott Learn how blind and low-vision children of all abilities can access education and information in school and in the world. Instructor: Dr. Denise Robinson Braille Music for Dummies Skyline B Room, Courtyard Marriott Just enough to stay one step ahead of the kids. Instructors: Jennifer Dunnam and Kyle Conley Spaghetti, Meatballs, and Birthday Parties Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Manners, cafeterias, games, playgrounds, and friends (Pre-K and Elementary) Instructors: Debbi Head and Emily Gibbs Bring Me to the Mall­Text Me Later Renoir Room, Level 4 Manners, food courts, and friends (middle and high school) Instructors: Eric Guillory and Deja Powell 5:00 - 6:30 pm­PARENTS AND REHABILITATION PROFESSIONALS JOINT CONFERENCE RECEPTION Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 6:00 - 10:00 pm­NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GUIDE DOG USERS BUSINESS MEETING Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 6:00 pm–Registration; 7:00 pm–Meeting begins Topics: airline emergency procedures and evacuation; creating and growing state associations of guide dog users; and protecting the rights of guide dog users through advocacy and education. Marion Gwizdala, President Whozit FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 6:30 - 10:00 pm­NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND OFFICE PROFESSIONALS Renoir Room, Level 4 6:30 pm–Registration; 7:00 pm–Meeting begins Featuring a hands-on Braille proofreading workshop. Guest speaker is from Seedlings Braille Books for Children. Lisa Hall, President 7:30 - 10:00 pm­NOPBC FAMILY HOSPITALITY NIGHT Cascade D Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Drop in, relax, and chat in an informal atmosphere. 8:00 - 10:00 pm­NFB LIONS GROUP Room 6405, 60th floor NFB members who are also Lions are urged to meet to share ideas and experiences. Co-Chairpersons: Ramona Walhof and Milton Ota 8:00 - 10:00 pm­ROOKIE ROUNDUP RECEPTION­GAINING INSIGHT FOR FIRST-TIMERS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 First-time conventioneers, don't miss this event! President Maurer and former rookies will be on hand to welcome you and answer questions. Coordinator: Pam Allen, Director of the Louisiana Center for the Blind and President of the NFB of Louisiana 8:00 pm - midnight­KARAOKE NIGHT Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 Admission: $5.00. You'll have a great time. Braille song lists available. Hosted by BLIND, Incorporated 9:00 - 10:00 pm­NFB AMBASSADORS COMMITTEE MEETING Greco Room, Level 4 Angela Wolf, Chairperson Whozit SATURDAY, JULY 4, 2009 9:00 am - 5:00 pm­REGISTRATION ($20); BANQUET TICKET SALES ($40); Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 9:00 am 5:00 pm­EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND LITERATURE­Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 1:00 - 3:00 pm­WHAT’S NEW WITH NFB-NEWSLINE® Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 Presentational seminar about the world’s largest audible newspaper service for the blind and visually impaired. Topics cover newest online initiatives and improvements to the service. 1:00 - 5:00 pm­EXPLORING THE LATEST INNOVATIONS IN MOBILE REFRESHABLE BRAILLE AND TACTILE GRAPHICS TECHNOLOGIES Richard A Room, Level 5 1:00-2:00­ALVA Braille Controller: more than just a Braille display. 2:00-3:00­Talking Tactile Tablet: exploring tactile images, interactive games. 3:00-4:00­Reading On the Go!: read books, texts, etc. using a cell phone. 4:00-5:00­Mobile Geo: a new GPS solution for accessible cell phones. Larry Lewis, President, Flying Blind, Inc. 1:00 - 5:00 pm­NATIONAL CERTIFICATION IN LITERARY BRAILLE (NCLB) OFFICIAL EXAMINATION­SECTIONS ONE AND TWO Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Participants must have preregistered. Exam Sections Three and Four are on Sunday, July 5 (see agenda listing). Sponsored by the National Blindness Professional Certification Board 1:30 pm­RESOLUTIONS COMMITTEE Renaissance Cartier Ballroom, Level 4 Sharon Maneki, Chairperson 1:30 - 2:45 pm­ knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print­it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! Whozit SATURDAY, JULY 4, Continued 2:00 - 5:00 pm­NOPBC SESSIONS FOR CHILDREN AND YOUTH Braille Beats Cascade D Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Kids get into Braille music in a fun way. Instructor: Kyle Conely 2:00 – 3:30 pm­For Kindergarten through Grade 5 3:30 – 5:00 pm­For Grades 6 through 12 You Want to Move It, Move It Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Judo expert Lisamaria Martinez and friends get you moving! 2:00 – 3:30 pm­For Grades 6 through 12 3:30 – 5:00 pm­For Kindergarten through Grade 5 2:30 - 4:30 pm­TRAVEL AND TOURISM DIVISION Raphael Room, Level 4 Don Gillmore, President 3:00 - 4:45 pm­knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print­it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 3:30 - 10:00 pm­NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATIONS Room 6401, 60th floor 3:30-6:00 pm and 8:30-10:00 pm­Learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 6:30-8:00 pm­Gathering for professionals in the field of work with the blind for an evening of presentations and possibilities. 4:00 - 5:30 pm­MAKING THE MOST OF YOUR JERNIGAN INSTITUTE Duluth B Room, Level 5 Attendees will learn the latest information about the Institute and about how they can utilize its programs to build the organization at the local level. We expect the discussion to spark new, imaginative ideas for future programs. Led by Mark Riccobono, Jernigan Institute Executive Director. Whozit SATURDAY, JULY 4, Continued 4:00 - 6:00 pm­SPANISH SEMINAR Brulé B Room, Level 5 Conducted entirely in Spanish. Learn about the Federation, hear from some of our leaders, and network with other Hispanic members. Facilitators: Rosy Carranza and A.Z. Martinez 4:30 - 5:30 pm­WAL-MART AND NFB JERNIGAN INSTITUTE: FUTURE INNOVATIONS FORUM Brulé A Room, Level 5 Join a town hall meeting on Equal Access at the Pharmacy Counter. Discuss emerging issues, best practices, and preferences as a blind or low-vision consumer. Influence future work through the NFB Jernigan Institute to encourage innovative Pharmacy practices and take the opportunity for the world's largest retailer to hear your voice. 4:30 - 6:00 pm­TWELFTH ANNUAL MOCK TRIAL­National Association of Blind Lawyers; Scott LaBarre, President Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 Admission: $5.00. Federation lawyers are pitted against each other reenacting an old Federation case with the audience serving as the jury. 6:00 - 7:30 pm­NEWSLETTER PUBLICATIONS COMMITTEE DaVinci Room, Level 4 Covering state newsletters, formatting a good publication, and publishing in accessible formats. Norma Crosby, Chairperson 6:00 - 10:00 pm­NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND STUDENTS Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 6:00 pm–Registration ($5.00) & Meet-and-Greet; 7:00 pm–Meeting Happy 42nd birthday to NABS! Remember to bring your contact information on a Brailled index card for registration. Terri Rupp, President 6:45 - 7:45 pm­IMAGINATION FUND TRAINING MEETING Greco Room, Level 4 Kevan Worley, Facilitator Whozit SATURDAY, JULY 4, Continued 7:00 - 8:30 pm­NFB AFFILIATE PRESIDENTS AND TREASURERS SEMINAR Nicolet A Room, Level 5 Affiliate presidents and treasurers are asked to attend this seminar about state financial programs, financial data, and planning the end of 2009 and beginning of 2010. Topics include: 990s, state charitable registrations, end-of-year preparations, and other issues. Facilitators: Bridgid Burke and Charlie Brown 7:00 - 8:30 pm­PUBLIC EMPLOYEES DIVISION Richard A Room, Level 5 Ivan Weich, President 7:00 - 9:00 pm­CLASSICS, ANTIQUES, AND RODS (CARS) DIVISION Renoir Room, Level 4 Joseph B. Naulty, President 7:00 - 9:00 pm­“KEYS TO INDEPENDENCE,” NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND PIANO TECHNICIANS SEMINAR Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 Learn how to have a career in piano tuning and repair; it can enhance your independence. Don Mitchell, President 7:30 - 9:30 pm­MEMBERSHIP COMMITTEE Duluth B Room, Level 5 The more we educate, the more we grow. Ron Gardner, Chairperson 7:30 - 10:00 pm­BLIND PARENTS GROUP Brulé B Room, Level 5 Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson 8:00 - 9:00 pm­WHITE CANE AND AFFILIATE FINANCE COMMITTEE Raphael Room, Level 4 Alpidio Rolón, Chairperson 8:00 - 9:30 pm­WEBMASTERS WORKSHOP Greco Room, Level 4 A meeting for all NFB affiliate and division Webmasters. Gary Wunder, Chairperson, Webmasters Group Whozit SATURDAY, JULY 4, Continued 8:00 - 10:00 pm­COMMITTEE ON LIBRARY SERVICES Duluth A Room, Level 5 David Hyde, Chairperson 9:00 - 10:00 pm­SPANISH TRANSLATION COMMITTEE Raphael Room, Level 4 Norman Gardner, Chairperson Whozit SUNDAY, JULY 5, 2009 7:15 - 8:15 am­ROMAN CATHOLIC MASS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 Fr. Gregory Paul, C.P., Celebrant 8:00 am - 10:00 pm­NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATIONS Room 6401, 60th floor 8:00-11:00 am, 1:30-5:30 pm, and 8:30-10:00 pm­Learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 6:00-7:00 pm­Promotion, Evaluation, and Advancement of Technology Committee gathering. Learn about NFB-NEWSLINE’s revolutionary new online initiatives. 8:30 am - 5:00 pm­REGISTRATION ($20); BANQUET TICKET SALES ($40); Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 8:30 am 5:00 pm­ EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND LITERATURE­Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 9:00 11:30 am­NFB BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING (Open to all) Renaissance Ballroom, Level 4 11:45 am - 12:45 pm­THE DIVISION FOR ME­NFB YOUTH TRACK Greco Room, Level 4 A meet-and-greet with NFB division representatives. Coordinator: Mary Jo Thorpe. Co-sponsored by NOPBC and NFB Jernigan Institute. 11:45 am - 1:15 pm­CHURCH SERVICES FOR THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 12:00 noon - 2:00 pm­ROOKIE ROUNDUP GATHERING Affiliate Action Suite 6801 Attention rookies! Participate in a gathering of fun for first-time conventioneers. This is a great opportunity to meet new people and have your convention questions answered by experienced Federationists. Whozit SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 12:30 - 4:00 pm­DIABETES ACTION NETWORK FOR THE BLIND Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 12:30 pm – Registration; 1:00 pm – Meeting begins Keynote speaker is Ann S. Williams, PhD, RN, CDE, a diabetes educator with much experience with diabetic issues. Mike Freeman, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm­NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS Richard A Room, Level 5 12:30 pm – Registration; 1:00 pm – Meeting begins Examine laws affecting blind people and others with disabilities; address ongoing struggles to gain equal access to Web sites, employment, legal texts and exams. Scott LaBarre, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm­NFB IN COMPUTER SCIENCE LaSalle B Room, Level 5 12:30 pm – Registration; 1:00 pm – Meeting begins Discuss recent releases, concerns of information technology professionals, and other topics. Curtis Chong, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm­“OVERCOMING OBSTACLES THROUGH COURAGE AND DETERMINATION”­National Association of the Blind in Communities of Faith Cadillac A Room, Level 5 12:30 pm – Registration; 1:00 pm – Meeting begins; Tom Anderson, President 12:30 5:00 pm­REVOLUTIONIZING RANDOLPH-SHEPPARD NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND MERCHANTS MEETING Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 12:30 pm – Registration; 1:30 pm – Meeting begins Those involved in the Randolph-Sheppard program or who operate a similar business discuss protection of the priority and the creation of new business opportunities and outreach. Kevan Worley, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm­SPORTS AND RECREATION DIVISION Skyline A Room, Courtyard Marriott 12:30 pm – Registration; 1:00 pm – Meeting begins Wear your sweats and come ready for hands-on presentations in yoga and much more! Lisamaria Martinez, President Whozit SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 12:45 - 4:30 pm­MIDDLE SCHOOL BIG ADVENTURE! (Ages 9-14) Meet (and return) at back of Cascade A and B Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott Hang out as a group and have fun exploring with blind mentors Michael Freholm and Garrick Scott. 1:00 - 3:00 pm­BLIND PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISTS GROUP Duluth A Room, Level 5 Elizabeth Campbell, Chairperson 1:00 3:00 pm­CULTURAL EXCHANGE AND INTERNATIONAL PROGRAM COMMITTEE Duluth B Room, Level 5 Diane McGeorge, Chairperson 1:00 3:00 pm­“GRABBING HEADLINES FOR YOUR AFFILIATE” SEMINAR­PUBLIC RELATIONS COMMITTEE Nicolet B Room, Level 5 Topics: locating press contacts; drafting press releases; developing relationships with reporters and editors; working effectively with the media. Barbara Pierce, Chairperson; Seminar conducted by Chris Danielsen and Jessica Freeh, NFB Public Relations 1:00 - 3:00 pm­NOPBC DIVISION ANNUAL MEETING: MAKING THEIR FUTURE DREAMS COME TRUE Cascade A and B Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott Carol Castellano, President 1:00 - 4:00 pm­PERFORMING ARTS DIVISION DaVinci Room, Level 4 Unveiling the “Music of the Movement” album. Hear from an artist recruiter about a media company paving the way for blind audio professionals. Dennis Holston, President 1:00 - 4:00 pm­WRITERS DIVISION BUSINESS MEETING Renoir Room, Level 4 Robert Leslie Newman, President Whozit SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 1:00 - 4:30 pm­NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF BLIND EDUCATORS Brulé B Room, Level 5 1:00 pm – Registration; 1:30 pm – Meeting begins Blind teachers discuss techniques they use in their classrooms; meeting in groups specific to grade level and content areas of interest to create a network of mentors. Sheila Koenig, President 1:00 - 5:00 pm­AUTO SHOW (CLASSICS, ANTIQUES, AND SPECIAL INTEREST VEHICLES) Location to be announced. Joe Naulty, CARS Division President 1:00 - 5:00 pm­NATIONAL CERTIFICATION IN LITERARY BRAILLE (NCLB) OFFICIAL EXAMINATION­SECTIONS THREE AND FOUR Cascade C and D Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott Participants must have preregistered. Sponsored by the National Blindness Professional Certification Board 1:00 - 5:00 pm­NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND REHABILITATION PROFESSIONALS Brulé A Room, Level 5 1:00 pm – Registration; 2:00 pm – Meeting begins Network, share mutual interests, find placement strategies, and examine and discuss concerns and current issues. Melody Lindsey, President 1:00 - 5:00 pm­“SENIORS IN CHARGE” NFB SENIORS DIVISION MEETING & (SOMEWHAT) SILENT AUCTION Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 Find out ways to spread our message of hope to newly blind seniors. We’re also having our popular not-so-silent auction. Judy Sanders, President 1:00 - 6:00 pm­HUMAN SERVICES DIVISION SEMINAR AND BUSINESS MEETING Nicolet A Room, Level 5 1:00 pm – Registration; 2:00 pm – Meeting begins; 5:00 pm – Networking Psychologists, social workers, counselors, and music or dance therapists meeting to network and ask questions. Melissa Riccobono, President Whozit SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 1:30 - 4:45 pm­knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Session One: 1:30 - 2:45 pm; Session Two: 3:00 - 4:45 pm Use your cell phone to read print­it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 3:00 - 4:30 pm­NOPBC PARENT POWER WORKSHOP Cascade A and B Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott Parent leaders from around the country share their experiences. Moderator: Barbara Mathews 3:15 - 4:45 pm­MEET THE BLIND MONTH ACTIVITIES AND OTHER SPECIAL EVENTS SEMINAR: PLANS AND ACTION EQUAL SUCCESS Duluth B Room, Level 5 October is “Meet the Blind Month.” Find out about events that are entertaining and fun and encouraging chapters to try new types of fundraising and meet-and-greet events. Jerry Lazarus, NFB Jernigan Institute 5:00 - 6:30 pm­NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS RECEPTION Richard B Room, Level 5 For NABL members and seminar participants to promote networking and fellowship within our membership. Hors d'oeuvres and cash bar available. Scott LaBarre, President 5:00 - 7:00 pm­BRAILLE BOOK FLEA MARKET Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Happy Birthday, Louis Braille! Browse tables of new and used Braille and print/Braille books. UPS volunteers will ship the books to your home free of charge. Donations requested to support the Braille Readers are Leaders program. Cake and snacks for browsers. Cosponsored by NOPBC and NAPUB. Coordinator: Peggy Chong 5:00 - 8:00 pm­JUDO WORKSHOP; SPORTS & REC DIVISION Skyline B Room, Courtyard Marriott Join USA Judo and paralympian bronze medal winner Greg DeWall to learn about judo from people involved in the sport. See you on the mat! Lisamaria Martinez, President Whozit SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 5:30 - 7:00 pm­KURZWEIL 1000 USERS’ MEETING Richard A Room, Level 5 Join the Kurzweil 1000 Users’ Contingent! Meet with Steve Baum, Vice President of Engineering, and share some Kurzweil 1000 experiences. Kurzweil 1000 is our state-of-the-art, text-to-speech and life navigation software for blind and visually impaired readers. 5:30 - 7:30 pm­AGRICULTURE AND EQUESTRIAN DIVISION Duluth A Room, Level 5 Fred Chambers, President 6:00 - 10:00 pm­BACK TO BASICS: FOUNDATIONS IN MEMBERSHIP AND CHAPTER DEVELOPMENT Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 Topics: running a purposeful chapter meeting, community projects and chapter fundraising, and weaving Federation philosophy into local meetings. NFB Affiliate Action Team 6:00 - 10:00 pm­DEAF BLIND DIVISION Nicolet B Room, Level 5 6:00 pm – Registration; 7:00 pm – Meeting begins Burnell Brown, President 6:00 - 10:00 pm­NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GUIDE DOG USERS SEMINAR 6:00 pm – Registration; 7:00 pm – Meeting begins Brulé A Room, Level 5 Topics: Islam, the Koran, and guide dogs; Training Centers and Guide Dogs: a panel discussion; and massage for dogs. You can also “test drive” a guide dog! Marion Gwizdala, President 6:30 - 9:00 pm­ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGY TRAINERS DIVISION Renoir Room, Level 4 6:30 pm – Registration; 7:00 pm – Meeting begins Note-taking devices to recommend to clients and what to do about students who are seemingly “unteachable.” Michael Barber, President Whozit SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 6:30 - 9:30 pm­SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING DIVISION Cascade A and B Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott 6:30 pm – Registration; 7:00 pm – Meeting begins John Miller, President 7:00 - 8:30 pm­LIVING HISTORY GROUP Nicolet A Room, Level 5 Dedicated to recording, preserving, and appreciating Federation history. Michael Freholm, Chairperson 7:00 - 8:30 pm­“SOMETIMES TRUTH REPELS” a play by Jerry Whittle (Admission: $5.00; Second Performance is at 9:00 pm) Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 A play about the teaching career of Louis Braille performed by the Louisiana Center for the Blind Players. Proceeds go to the Louisiana Center for the Blind’s summer training program for blind children. 7:00 - 9:00 pm­COMMITTEE TO EMPOWER UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS LaSalle B Room, Level 5 Ron Brown, Chairperson 7:00 - 9:00 pm­FEDERATION RE-GENERATION Duluth B Room, Level 5 Do you need to rejuvenate and kick-start your affiliate with fresh ideas? Re-generate! Get a new generation involved. Join the NFB Jernigan Institute Education Team to learn more about program possibilities. 7:00 - 9:00 pm­NFB KRAFTERS DIVISION BUSINESS MEETING Cadillac A Room, Level 5 Unveiling new craft initiatives, including plans for a new Web site and information on our Monday night nationwide chats. Joyce Kane, President 7:00 - 9:00 pm­NATIONAL ASSOCIATION TO PROMOTE THE USE OF BRAILLE (NAPUB) SEMINAR Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 Celebrating Louis Braille’s 200th birthday! Receive information about the commemorative Louis Braille silver dollar, the NFB Share Braille Web site project, and more. Nadine Jacobson, President Whozit SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 7:00 - 9:00 pm­NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND VETERANS LaSalle A Room, Level 5 Guest speakers; reviewing access technology; unveiling the 2009 NABV pin. Pay dues and receive an NABV-3 shirt. Dwight Sayer, President 7:00 - 10:00 pm­MARCH FOR INDEPENDENCE MARCHER DROP-IN BRIEFINGS (THREE SEPARATE SESSIONS) Brulé B Room, Level 5 Session One: 7:00-8:00 pm; Session Two 8:00-9:00 pm; Session Three 9:00-10:00 pm. Drop in anytime and help us lead the 2009 March for Independence. Facilitator: Kevan Worley 7:30 - 9:00 pm­DADS’ NIGHT OUT Contact Brad Weatherd for location All dads, sighted and blind, are welcome. Sponsored by the NOPBC 7:30 - 9:00 pm­NFB IN JUDAISM MEETING Room 6405, 60th Floor David Stayer, Chairperson 7:30 - 10:00 pm­COMMITTEE FOR THE PROMOTION, EVALUATION, AND ADVANCEMENT OF TECHNOLOGY; Gary Wunder, Chairperson Greco Room, Level 4 8:00 - 9:30 pm­MAKING BRAILLE BOOKS FOR CHILDREN Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Make Braille books at home that will inspire your child to read and explore. Sponsored by NOPBC. Instructors: Carlton Walker and Krystal Guillory 9:00 - 10:30 pm­“SOMETIMES TRUTH REPELS,” a play by Jerry Whittle (Second Performance) Admission: $5.00 Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 A play about the teaching career of Louis Braille performed by the Louisiana Center for the Blind Players. Proceeds go to the Louisiana Center for the Blind’s summer training program for blind children. 9:30 - 10:30 pm­FRIENDS OF RECOVERY MEETING Raphael Room, Level 4 Coordinator: Gary Ray A group of Whozits marching together. MONDAY, JULY 6, 2009 6:45 am­MOTOR CITY MARCH FOR INDEPENDENCE RALLY! Please gather in the Wintergarden on Level A of the Detroit Marriott for a 7:00 am start. NOTE: Because of the March for Independence, there are no registration, devotions, Independence Market and Literature, or Exhibit Hall activities on Monday morning. ************************************************** OPENING GENERAL SESSION 9:30 am INVOCATION 9:35 am WELCOMING CEREMONIES 9:55 am CELEBRATION OF FREEDOM: VETERANS RECOGNIZED Dwight Sayer, President, National Association of Blind Veterans, National Federation of the Blind; Winter Gardens, Florida 10:05 am ROLL CALL OF STATES AND APPOINTMENT OF NOMINATING COMMITTEE 11:45 am REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 12:00 pm ADJOURN ************************************************** 12:00 noon 12:30 pm and 1:30 - 2:00 pm­REGISTRATION ($20); FINAL BANQUET TICKET SALES ($40)­Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 12:00 noon 1:45 pm­EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND LITERATURE­Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 12:00 noon - 1:30 pm­NFB CHAPTER PRESIDENTS MEETING AFFILIATE ACTION SUITE 6801 Informal gathering for NFB chapter presidents only to discuss issues of interest to Federationists at the grassroots level. Chapter presidents attending this convention should not miss this important meeting. Whozit MONDAY, JULY 6, Continued 12:15 - 2:00 pm­LOUISIANA CENTER FOR THE BLIND ALUMNI LUNCHEON Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Contact: Pam Allen, Director, Louisiana Center for the Blind ************************************************** GENERAL SESSION 2:00 pm CALL TO ORDER 2:05 pm PRESIDENTIAL REPORT, Marc Maurer 3:00 pm POLICIES TO ENHANCE EMPLOYMENT, INCLUSION, SAFETY, AND PRODUCTIVITY The Honorable John D. Dingell, Member of Congress, 15th Congressional District; Michigan 3:20 pm PROMOTING PEDESTRIAN SAFETY: A PRIORITY FOR MANUFACTURERS The Honorable Dave McCurdy, President and CEO, Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers; McLean, Virginia 3:40 pm THE JOURNEY OF BRAILLE: FROM THE HANDS OF THE CREATOR TO EARTH ORBIT 4:00 pm THE VALUE OF A COIN, OF A COMMUNICATION SYSTEM, AND OF A CLASS OF HUMAN BEINGS Fredric K. Schroeder, Ph.D., Research Professor, San Diego State University; Vienna, Virginia 4:25 pm PROVIDING THE FUNDAMENTAL TOOLS: BRAILLE BOOKS Brian A. McDonald, President, National Braille Press; Boston, Massachusetts 4:40 pm REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 5:00 pm ADJOURN Whozit MONDAY, JULY 6, Continued 5:30 - 6:30 pm­NOMINATING COMMITTEE; Sharon Maneki, Chairperson Cadillac A Room, Level 5 6:00 - 8:00 pm­AFB INTRODUCES ACCESSIBLE WALKING DIRECTIONS AND NEW CareerConnect FEATURES Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 The American Foundation for the Blind’s reception introduces Mapquest Accessible Walking Directions and new CareerConnect offerings. Be the first to try a free on-line directions service. Join up as a CareerConnect leader or mentor. We look forward to reconnecting with old friends. 6:00 - 9:00 pm­INDOOR ROWING; SPORTS & REC DIVISION Skyline A and B Rooms, Courtyard Marriott Row your way into fitness and maintain a healthy lifestyle using an accessible rowing machine. Prizes plus plenty of fun! Lisamaria Martinez, President 6:30 - 8:00 pm­GUITAR SEMINAR LaSalle B Room, Level 5 Learn about the guitar; get advice from a professional musician, Cameron Strife; $5 donation. Presented by the NFB Performing Arts Division 6:30 - 10:00 pm­NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATION Room 6401, 60th floor Drop by and learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 7:00 - 8:30 pm­NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS, REHAB PROFESSIONALS, AND INTERESTED OTHERS: IEPs: Evals, Goals, Strategies, the Law Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructor: Carlton Walker The Science of Getting in on Science Cascade B Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Cary Supalo, Marilyn Winograd, Dr. Lillian Rankel Mental Mapping: Using Environmental Sounds and Clues Cascade C Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructor: Daniel Kish Whozit MONDAY, JULY 6, Continued 7:00 - 8:30 pm­BOOKSHARE AT NFB MEMBER PARTY LaSalle A Room, Level 5 Enjoy snacks and refreshments while meeting the Bookshare staff. This is your opportunity to talk with us and share your ideas; we’re here to listen. Plan to have fun with contests, drawings, and interacting with your fellow members. We look forward to seeing you. 7:00 - 9:00 pm­BRAILLE READERS ARE LEADERS: THE INITIATIVE FOR CHANGE Duluth B Room, Level 5 One representative from each affiliate should attend this session. Help to ensure Braille literacy for all by learning about the exciting developments and discuss strategies for promoting Louis Braille bicentennial coins. 7:00 - 9:00 pm­MOVING LEGISLATION ON THE STATE AND NATIONAL LEVEL SEMINAR Cadillac B Room, Level 5 Each affiliate should send one representative. Learn the best methods of increasing support for our legislative priorities. Changing lives through laws is our business. Led by Jesse Hartle, NFB Strategic Initiatives Staff 7:00 - 10:00 pm­A SPECIAL EVENING FOR SPONSOR-LEVEL EXHIBITORS Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 The exhibit hall reopens for an evening dedicated solely to sponsor-level exhibitors. Come and bring a guest to say “thank you” to our sponsors and to enjoy their interesting offers and demonstrations. Our convention sponsors are­Platinum: HumanWare and UPS; Gold: Deque Systems, Inc., Freedom Scientific, and Oracle; Silver: En-Vision America, Intel®, and Wal-Mart; Bronze: Adobe, Council of U.S. Dog Guide Schools (CUSDGS), IBM, Independent Living Aids (ILA), and Microsoft; Exhibit Hall: GW Micro, J&B Medical Supply, National Industries for the Blind, ReadHowYouWant, and Roche Diagnostics. 7:00 - 10:00 pm­NOPBC CHILDREN’S ACTIVITY (ages 5-13) A UNIVERSALLY FUN TIME Cascade D Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Drop in and explore the universe with Noreen Grice; volunteers led by Michael Freholm Whozit MONDAY, JULY 6, Continued 7:00 - midnight­NFB OF MICHIGAN HOSPITALITY DANCE Ambassador Ballroom, Level 3 “There may be trouble ahead but while there’s moonlight and music and love and romance let’s face the music and dance!” Join our host affiliate to enjoy dancing or simply listening to some really good music. Entertainment provided by “Nine,” a nine-piece band performing Motown, soul, classic rock, pop, and old standards. 7:30 - 8:30 pm­NFB YOUTH TRACK MEETINGS ME AND THE GOSSIP GIRLS (ages 14-18) Greco Room, Level 4 Girls­bring your questions and thoughts about makeup, dating, or just how to get more involved in your school. ME AND THE GUYS (ages 14-18) Renoir Room, Level 4 Guys­talk about cars, dating, school, or how to nail that perfect job to make a little extra money. 8:00 - 10:00 pm­COMMITTEE ON AUTOMOBILE AND PEDESTRIAN SAFETY (CAPS); Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson Nicolet A Room, Level 5 8:30 - 10:00 pm­NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS, REHAB PROFESSIONALS, AND INTERESTED OTHERS Pro to Pro to Parent to Para­Learn How Your Child’s “Team” Can Work Together Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Dr. Denise Robinson and Gail Wagner Taking the Headaches Out of Adapting in Math Cascade B Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Eric and Krystal Guillory Summer Jobs, Vocational Rehabilitation, and Volunteering Cascade C Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructor: Jan Bailey Whozit TUESDAY, JULY 7, 2009 7:30 - 8:15 am­DEVOTIONS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 8:00 8:30 am­REGISTRATION ($20) Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 ************************************************** GENERAL SESSION 9:00 am INVOCATION 9:05 am FINANCIAL REPORT 10:00 am ELECTIONS 10:30 am EXPANDING ACCESS TO DIGITAL INFORMATION FOR THE BLIND Gilles Pepin, Chief Executive Officer, HumanWare; Drummondville, Canada 10:50 am A BLIND ATHLETE IN THE PARALYMPICS Tyler Merren, 2008 U.S. Paralympic Team Member, Men’s Goalball; Kalamazoo, Michigan 11:05 am DEVELOPMENTS AT THE FIRST EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION FOR THE BLIND IN THE UNITED STATES, PERKINS Steven M. Rothstein, President, Perkins School for the Blind; Watertown, Massachusetts 11:25 am THE FEDERATION IN THE WORLD FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE WORLD BLIND UNION Maryanne Diamond, President, World Blind Union; Melbourne, Australia 11:40 am REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 12:00 pm ADJOURN Whozit TUESDAY, JULY 7, Continued 12:00 noon 12:30 pm and 1:30 - 2:00 pm­REGISTRATION ($20) Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 12:00 noon 1:45 pm­EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND LITERATURE­(Final Time Period for Independence Market and Literature) Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 ************************************************** GENERAL SESSION 2:00 pm CALL TO ORDER 2:05 pm STRATEGIC INITIATIVES REPORT John Paré, Executive Director for Strategic Initiatives, National Federation of the Blind; Baltimore, Maryland 2:35 pm REPORTS, RESOLUTIONS, AND OTHER BUSINESS 5:00 pm ADJOURN ************************************************** 6:00 - 10:00 pm­IT WASN'T ME, A MURDER MYSTERY AT THE CLUB Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 Play along as guests at a dance club while private investigators try to solve a murder. Early arrivers are assigned a character role to play for the evening. Latecomers won't be able to play along but are welcome to watch the game and enjoy the experience. Presented by NFB Youth Track. 6:30 - 9:00 pm­COLORADO CENTER FOR THE BLIND OPEN HOUSE Brulé A and B Rooms, Level 5 Discover how good training can change your life. Julie Deden, Director 6:30 - 9:30 pm­NOPBC CHILDREN’S ACTIVITY (Ages 5-14) WE WILL NOT LET CONVENTION ACQUAINTANCES BE FORGOT Cascade C Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Led by Michael Freholm Whozit TUESDAY, JULY 7, Continued 6:30 - 10:00 pm­NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATION Room 6401, 60th floor Stop by and learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 7:00 - 8:15 pm­knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print­it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 7:00 - 8:30 pm­BLIND MUSICIANS GROUP BUSINESS MEETING Duluth B Room, Level 5 Linda Mentink, Chairperson 7:00 - 8:30 pm­NINTH ANNUAL RANDOLPH-SHEPPARD RECEPTION HOSTED BY THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND MERCHANTS Richard B Room, Level 5 Socialize, network, and learn more about Randolph-Sheppard and other business opportunities we can create through our work in the NFB. Kevan Worley, President 7:00 - 9:00 pm­COUNCIL OF U.S. DOG GUIDE SCHOOLS (CUSDGS) RECEPTION Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Learn how a dog guide can impact your life from featured speaker Michael Hingson, a World Trade Center survivor. Meet representatives from participating schools and learn about their programs. You can even schedule a “Juno” walk for later in the week. 7:00 9:00 pm­“SOCIAL SECURITY AND SUPPLEMENTAL SECURITY INCOME: WHAT APPLICANTS, ADVOCATES, AND RECIPIENTS SHOULD KNOW” SEMINAR Cadillac B Room, Level 5 Information on Social Security and SSI benefits, including the income subsidy program for those receiving the Medicare prescription drug benefit. Presenter: Dan Frye, Attorney and Associate Editor of the Braille Monitor Whozit TUESDAY, JULY 7, Continued 7:00 10:00 pm­EXHIBITS ONLY (Independence Market and Literature Closed)­Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 7:00 - 11:00 pm­ANNUAL SHOWCASE OF TALENT­Admission $5.00 Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 Register early by contacting Beth Allred at the convention. Proceeds benefit the scholarship program in memory of Mary Ann Parks. Sponsored by the Performing Arts Division; Dennis Holston, President 7:00 - 11:00 pm­HUMANWARE LOW VISION PRODUCTS SEMINAR Nicolet B Room, Level 5 Come and learn about HumanWare’s exciting low vision products in a hands-on, interactive seminar: myReader 2 video magnifier; SmartView desktop units; portable handheld devices; and a distance viewing system. Presenter: Ed Wikdall 8:00 - 10:00 pm­COMMITTEE ON RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT LaSalle A Room, Level 5 If you have an interest in new technologies and believe that spectacular accomplishments are possible when blind people themselves are involved­then join our meeting. Curtis Chong, Chairperson 8:00 - 11:30 pm­MONTE CARLO NIGHT Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 Try your luck at any of the usual card games found on a casino floor. Prizes go to the top three winners holding the most chips at the end of the evening. Sponsored by the National Association of Blind Students 8:30 - 9:45 pm­knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print­it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 9:30 - 10:30 pm­FRIENDS OF RECOVERY MEETING Raphael Room, Level 4 Coordinator: Gary Ray Whozit WEDNESDAY, JULY 8, 2009 8:00 - 8:45 am­DEVOTIONS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 8:30 9:00 am­REGISTRATION ($20)­Final opportunity to register. Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 ************************************************** GENERAL SESSION 9:00 am INVOCATION 9:05 am THE NEAR-PERFECT AUDIO BOOK: HOW WE DO IT Frank Kurt Cylke, Director, National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Library of Congress; Washington, D.C. Mary Beth Wise, Quality Assurance Specialist, National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Library of Congress; Washington, D.C. 9:25 am QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION 9:30 am THE DEMAND, THE CRISIS, THE SOLUTION IN EDUCATION FOR THE BLIND Edward Bell, Ph.D., Director, Professional Development and Research Institute on Blindness, Louisiana Tech University; Ruston, Louisiana 9:45 am THE THEORY AND THE PRACTICE: EDUCATION FOR THE BLIND IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL Denise M. Robinson, Ph.D., Teacher and Coordinator of Programming for Blind and Visually Impaired Students; Yakima, Washington 10:00 am WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO MAKE THAT CHILD BLIND? Carol Castellano, President, National Organization of Parents of Blind Children, National Federation of the Blind; Madison, New Jersey Whozit WEDNESDAY, JULY 8, Continued 10:20 am TEACHING AN ESSENTIAL SKILL: BRAILLE Jerry Whittle, Teacher-Counselor, Louisiana Center for the Blind; Ruston, Louisiana April Davis, Coordinator of Summer Programs for Blind Children, Louisiana Center for the Blind; Ruston, Louisiana James Mays, Industrial Arts Teacher, Louisiana Center for the Blind; Ruston, Louisiana Deja Powell, Cane Travel Instructor, Utah Division of Services for the Blind and Visually Impaired; Salt Lake City, Utah Anil Lewis, President, National Federation of the Blind of Georgia; Atlanta, Georgia Terri Rupp, President, National Federation of the Blind of Nevada; Las Vegas, Nevada 10:50 am FROM THE CENTER OF HISTORY: FIVE YEARS INTO THE FUTURE OF THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND JERNIGAN INSTITUTE Mark Riccobono, Executive Director, National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute; Baltimore, Maryland 11:10 am FRONTIER CAREERS FOR THE BLIND INCLUDE ENGINEERING Leigh R. Abts, Ph.D., Research Associate Professor of Engineering and Education, University of Maryland; College Park, Maryland 11:25 am NFB NEWSLINE: FROM PHONE TO COMPUTER TO PODCAST TO POCKET Scott White, Director of Sponsored Technology, National Federation of the Blind; Baltimore, Maryland 11:40 am REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 12:00 pm ADJOURN Whozit WEDNESDAY, JULY 8, Continued 12:00 noon - 1:45 pm­HAM RADIO GROUP BUSINESS MEETING Raphael Room, Level 4 We will consider the amendment of the division constitution that we adopted last year. D. Curtis Willoughby (KA0VBA), Chairperson 12:00 noon - 1:45 pm­NFB CAMP TOY SALE Marquette A Room, Level 5 Everything must go­30 to 70 percent off toys purchased for NFB Camp. 12:00 noon - 1:45 pm­RAFFLES AND DRAWINGS LaSalle A Room, Level 5 12:15 - 1:45 pm­EVERYTHING YOU'VE EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT THE NLS Nicolet B Room, Level 5 A question-and-answer session with Frank Kurt Cylke, Director, and staff of the National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Library of Congress. ************************************************** GENERAL SESSION 2:00 pm CALL TO ORDER 2:05 pm SHAPING THE STANDARD FOR THE LEGAL COMMUNITY: THE NECESSITY FOR ACCESS TO INFORMATION FOR ALL Daniel Goldstein, Esq., Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP; Baltimore, Maryland 2:25 pm NEGOTIATING ACCESSIBLE ELECTRONIC BOOKS: A MASSIVE UNDERTAKING, A SMASHING SUCCESS Jack Bernard, Esq., Chair, Counsel for Disability Concerns, and Assistant General Counsel, University of Michigan; Ann Arbor, Michigan 2:45 pm THE COMMITMENT OF MICROSOFT TO ACCESSIBLE TECHNOLOGY Rob Sinclair, Director of Accessibility, Microsoft Corporation; Redmond, Washington Whozit WEDNESDAY, JULY 8, Continued 3:05 pm TRANSCENDING THE BARRIERS OF YESTERDAY, ANTICIPATING THE ROMANCE OF THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE WITH THE TECHNOLOGY OF TOMORROW Ray Kurzweil, President and Chief Executive Officer, KNFB-Reading Technology, Inc.; Wellesley Hills, Massachusetts 3:25 pm REPRESENTING THE CITY OF CHICAGO Patti Chang, Esq., Senior Corporation Counsel, City of Chicago; Chicago, Illinois 3:45 pm DR. JACOB BOLOTIN AWARD Gary Wunder, Chairperson, Dr. Jacob Bolotin Award Committee, and Secretary, National Federation of the Blind; Columbia, Missouri 4:15 pm THE RIGHT OF THE PEDESTRIAN TO BE SAFE IN THE WORLD Ronald Medford, Acting Deputy Administrator, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration; Washington, D.C. 4:30 pm REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 5:00 pm ADJOURN ************************************************** 7:00 pm­BANQUET Renaissance Ballroom, Level 4 INVOCATION MASTER OF CEREMONIES: Fredric K. Schroeder INTRODUCTIONS AND PRESENTATIONS BANQUET ADDRESS: Marc Maurer SCHOLARSHIP AWARDS 10:00 pm - midnight­AFTER BANQUET PARTY Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 10:00 pm­SCIENCE FICTION MEETING All persons interested in science fiction and fantasy are welcome to join in an open discussion. Please contact Ed Meskys for room location. Whozit Thank You... The National Federation of the Blind would like to give a special thank you to VBrick Systems for donating the technology and Internet services to allow full streaming of all general sessions of the convention, the meeting of the board of directors, and the annual banquet. Through this contribution, more individuals will learn about the outstanding work that comes out of the largest gathering of the blind in the world. The National Federation of the Blind acknowledges with gratitude our Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze, and Exhibit Hall Convention Sponsors below. Their messages follow. Platinum Sponsors: HumanWare UPS Gold Sponsors: Deque Systems, Inc. Freedom Scientific Oracle Silver Sponsors: En-Vision America Intel® Wal-Mart Bronze Sponsors: Adobe Council of U.S. Dog Guide Schools (CUSDGS) IBM Independent Living Aids (ILA) Microsoft Exhibit Hall Sponsors: GW Micro J&B Medical Supply National Industries for the Blind ReadHowYouWant Roche Diagnostics David Andrews and white cane Harry. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: clip_image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 9169 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: clip_image003.gif Type: image/gif Size: 2798 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: clip_image005.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1023 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: clip_image007.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1671 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: clip_image009.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3152 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: clip_image010.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 715 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: clip_image011.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1222 bytes Desc: not available URL: From habnkid at aol.com Sat May 23 01:08:16 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 18:08:16 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> Message-ID: <4A174C80.2080405@aol.com> Hello all, I appreciate the feedback. I found out some good news. Once a blind student is accepted to receive accommodations for the LSAT, the Law School Admissions Council will send that student, upon request, braille copies of previous LSATs for practice and study purposes. So, that's one of my plans. I'm also going to try to get one of the transcription agencies to braille an up-to-date LSAT study guide. Haben Haben Girma wrote: > Good Morning, > > Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? > The Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep > books that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the > print copy of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by > the Princeton Review. I called them up today asking that they provide > me with a braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the > customer service woman replied. There are many books currently > unavailable in braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to > acknowledge this reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely > important, I want the best prep books in my most comfortable reading > media: braille. I left a message with the Editorial staff asking for a > braille copy or at least an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. > Shouldn't the Princeton Review be required to provide a braille copy > of their book, as a reasonable accommodation under the ADA? > > Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently > taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? > > p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. > > Haben > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From angie.matney at gmail.com Sat May 23 01:23:38 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 21:23:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <4A174C80.2080405@aol.com> References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> <4A174C80.2080405@aol.com> Message-ID: <4a17501d.07035a0a.3bd1.12f2@mx.google.com> Hi Haben, When I used LSAC's Braille practice materials, they came with a print letter stating that if they were not returned within a few days of the test (I can't remember exactly how long), my score would be withheld. This, combined with the fact that there are no accessible tests until you pay to register and are approved for accommodations, is discriminatory, IMO. Having said that, the Braille test I received was helpful. Best, Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Haben Girma Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:08 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Hello all, I appreciate the feedback. I found out some good news. Once a blind student is accepted to receive accommodations for the LSAT, the Law School Admissions Council will send that student, upon request, braille copies of previous LSATs for practice and study purposes. So, that's one of my plans. I'm also going to try to get one of the transcription agencies to braille an up-to-date LSAT study guide. Haben Haben Girma wrote: > Good Morning, > > Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? > The Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep > books that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the > print copy of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by > the Princeton Review. I called them up today asking that they provide > me with a braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the > customer service woman replied. There are many books currently > unavailable in braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to > acknowledge this reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely > important, I want the best prep books in my most comfortable reading > media: braille. I left a message with the Editorial staff asking for a > braille copy or at least an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. > Shouldn't the Princeton Review be required to provide a braille copy > of their book, as a reasonable accommodation under the ADA? > > Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently > taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? > > p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. > > Haben > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From habnkid at aol.com Sat May 23 02:33:41 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 19:33:41 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <4a17501d.07035a0a.3bd1.12f2@mx.google.com> References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> <4A174C80.2080405@aol.com> <4a17501d.07035a0a.3bd1.12f2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A176085.2040606@aol.com> I agree with you, Angie. It's a bit distressing to think I have to spell out what accommodations I need before I can even get a sense of what the test is like. I would love to be able to look at the braille test's Games section to get a better sense of what tools I will need to successfully complete that part of the exam. It is simply discriminatory. Haben Angie Matney wrote: > Hi Haben, > > When I used LSAC's Braille practice materials, they came with a print letter > stating that if they were not returned within a few days of the test (I > can't remember exactly how long), my score would be withheld. This, combined > with the fact that there are no accessible tests until you pay to register > and are approved for accommodations, is discriminatory, IMO. Having said > that, the Braille test I received was helpful. > > Best, > > Angie > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Haben Girma > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:08 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > Hello all, > > I appreciate the feedback. I found out some good news. Once a blind > student is accepted to receive accommodations for the LSAT, the Law > School Admissions Council will send that student, upon request, braille > copies of previous LSATs for practice and study purposes. So, that's one > of my plans. I'm also going to try to get one of the transcription > agencies to braille an up-to-date LSAT study guide. > > Haben > > Haben Girma wrote: > >> Good Morning, >> >> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? >> The Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep >> books that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the >> print copy of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by >> the Princeton Review. I called them up today asking that they provide >> me with a braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the >> customer service woman replied. There are many books currently >> unavailable in braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to >> acknowledge this reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely >> important, I want the best prep books in my most comfortable reading >> media: braille. I left a message with the Editorial staff asking for a >> braille copy or at least an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. >> Shouldn't the Princeton Review be required to provide a braille copy >> of their book, as a reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >> >> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >> >> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >> >> Haben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From mgmckay at rogers.com Sun May 24 02:02:56 2009 From: mgmckay at rogers.com (Michael G. McKay) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 23:02:56 -0300 Subject: [blindlaw] Hi there: Message-ID: I just found out that there is a Rogue software program that calls itself WinPC Antivirus, This is a malware program that can ruin your cause serious damage to your computer system, I just had a bout with it, and thankfully, it did not cause any damage to my system, My super antivirus took care of the little critter, and removed it could do anything. Please make sure that you delete this program immediately, make sure that your windowsXP firewall is working properly, and that you have Super Antispyware either free, version or, professional installed on your system. Or another effective program that can properly remove these kinds of threats. Cheers! Michael G. McKay BA, '05 333 Cliffe Street, Apt. No. 210, Fredericton, New Brunswick. Canada. E3A 0S8 Home Phone: (506) 449-5885 E-Mail: mgmckay at rogers.com -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.37/2130 - Release Date: 05/23/09 07:00:00 From dnepple at hotmail.com Sun May 24 06:25:52 2009 From: dnepple at hotmail.com (don nepple) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 01:25:52 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] thanks i think that i am o cay.RE: Hi there: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------------------------------------- > From: mgmckay at rogers.com > To: crossofchrist at topica.com > Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 23:02:56 -0300 > Subject: [blindlaw] Hi there: > > > I just found out that there is a Rogue software program that calls itself > WinPC Antivirus, This is a malware program that can ruin your cause serious > damage to your computer system, I just had a bout with it, and thankfully, > it did not cause any damage to my system, My super antivirus took care of > the little critter, and removed it could do anything. Please make sure that > you delete this program immediately, make sure that your windowsXP firewall > is working properly, and that you have Super Antispyware either free, > version or, professional installed on your system. Or another effective > program that can properly remove these kinds of threats. > > Cheers! > Michael G. McKay BA, '05 > 333 Cliffe Street, Apt. No. 210, > Fredericton, New Brunswick. > Canada. E3A 0S8 > Home Phone: (506) 449-5885 > E-Mail: mgmckay at rogers.com > > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® has a new way to see what's up with your friends. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/WhatsNew?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_WhatsNew1_052009 From Ronza.Othman at dhs.gov Wed May 27 14:23:37 2009 From: Ronza.Othman at dhs.gov (Othman, Ronza) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 10:23:37 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Vacancy Announcement - CRCL Programs Division - Program Analyst Message-ID: <74096FB4D17ADA49A21F9BED9B9A33D8014552BB@ZAU1UG-0308.DHSNET.DS1.DHS> The Department of Homeland Security Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Programs Division has openings for Program Analysts posted on USAJobs. The vacancy announcement numbers are FS-254547DE-SW09 (non-status candidates) and FS-254547MP-SW09 (status candidates) and close on Friday, June 5, 2009. The position sensitivity level is Top Secret/SCI. Please forward to anyone who may be eligible and interested. Kind regards, Ronza M. Othman, Esq. Policy Advisor Office for Civil Rights & Civil Liberties U.S. Department of Homeland Security (202) 357-8517 (office) (202) 436-4437 (cell) ronza.othman at dhs.gov www.dhs.gov/civilliberties This message may contain agency deliberative communications, privacy information or other information that may be privileged and exempt from disclosure outside the agency or to the public. Please consult with the Department of Homeland Security, Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties and the Office of General Counsel before disclosing any information contained in this email. From Ronza.Othman at dhs.gov Wed May 27 18:13:50 2009 From: Ronza.Othman at dhs.gov (Othman, Ronza) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 14:13:50 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Vacancy Announcement - CRCL Review and Compliance Unit - Compliance Investigator Message-ID: <74096FB4D17ADA49A21F9BED9B9A33D8014553EC@ZAU1UG-0308.DHSNET.DS1.DHS> The DHS Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Review and Compliance unit has openings for Compliance Investigators posted on USAJobs. The vacancy announcement number is FS-260988-SW09 (status candidates only) and closes on Wednesday, June 10, 2009. Applications will be accepted from current or former Federal employees with competitive status or eligibility for competitive service appointments; displaced Federal employees requesting priority consideration under the Interagency Career Transition Assistance Program (ICTAP); veterans who are preference eligible or who have been separated under honorable conditions after 3 years or more of continuous service; and individuals with disability. Please forward to anyone who may be eligible and interested. Kind regards, Ronza M. Othman, Esq. Policy Advisor Office for Civil Rights & Civil Liberties U.S. Department of Homeland Security (202) 357-8517 (office) (202) 436-4437 (cell) ronza.othman at dhs.gov www.dhs.gov/civilliberties This message may contain agency deliberative communications, privacy information or other information that may be privileged and exempt from disclosure outside the agency or to the public. Please consult with the Department of Homeland Security, Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties and the Office of General Counsel before disclosing any information contained in this email. From Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov Wed May 27 18:36:54 2009 From: Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov (Norman, Gary C. (CMS/CBC)) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 14:36:54 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] ABA TIPS Litigating Animal Law Message-ID: The book in which I am the author in the chapter concerning the law of service animals has been released by the ABA. See the link below. I encourage you to consider acquiring this book. Thanks to the hard work of my fellow authors, and to the support of my editor. Gary http://www.abanet.org/abastore/index.cfm?section=main&fm=Product.AddToCa rt&pid=5190436 From rjs059 at peoplepc.com Thu May 28 02:45:05 2009 From: rjs059 at peoplepc.com (rjs059 at peoplepc.com) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 22:45:05 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Question Message-ID: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst> Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list, at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gublprotocol[1].pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 73926 bytes Desc: not available URL: From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Thu May 28 06:27:44 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 23:27:44 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Question In-Reply-To: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst> References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst> Message-ID: <20090528062744.GM60527@yumi.bluecherry.net> RJ, It's a scanned text page. It needs to be run through an OCR engine. I'll email it back to you off-list, with OCR. Joseph On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 10:45:05PM -0400, rjs059 at peoplepc.com wrote: >Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list, at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov Thu May 28 13:21:45 2009 From: Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov (Norman, Gary C. (CMS/CBC)) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 09:21:45 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Metro bus users - opportunity for comment Message-ID: This may be of assistance. See below. Gary From: Nancy Pineles [mailto:nancyp at mdlclaw.org] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 5:44 PM Subject: Metrobus users - opportunity for comment People with disabilities who use Metrobus may want to read the information below about new electronic signs that will be posted at some Metrobus stops. Call WMATA at 202-962-1051 and speak with Steven Taubenkikel, Cathy Asato or Lisa Farbstein. Here is a link to the news story: http://www.wmata.com/about_metro/news/PressReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=2 587 ________________________________ Metro News: Next Bus signs posted at bus stops Posted by: "Haydee De Paula" haydeed at arcmontmd.org hmmdp Wed May 27, 2009 7:38 am (PDT) Good News! "Metrobus customers will be able to get real-time bus arrival information on Metro's Web site, by telephone or from electronic signs installed at select Metrobus stops." I just received this from the Metro Newsletter (Link and complete pasted press release below). I am thinking of individuals with disabilities, mainly students who are being travel trained to use the public transportation system independently. I suggest families, transition teachers, job coaches and counselors, should consider the impact this service can have in the lives of individuals they support, as they advocate for them. I suggest we call them to ask Metro if it is possible to have signs on some bus stops where people with disabilities wait for buses. That would be very useful to them if they missed the bus, or when the weather is bad, so they can get prepared or make alternate decisions and arrangements, and not only wait forever without knowing what is going on. I just called them and shared the experience of my own son and other people I know to tell them how wonderful this new service can be for individuals who depend on public transportation and are being trained to use specific lines. I also ask them to consider giving priority to have these services on these specific stops individuals with disabilities need it most, to make it easier for riders to have an idea if they just missed the bus, or if they need to ask for help when the weather is bad and buses are too late for them to make it to work, etc... If you have a moment, please do the same. Please consider sharing some real stories of people with disabilities you know would benefit from this service. Please share this with others. Thank you! Media contact for this news release: Cathy Asato or Lisa Farbstein at 202-962-1051 Thanks, Haydee Haydee M. M. De Paula, Ph.D. Support Services Coordinator for Adolescents The Arc of Montgomery County 301.984.5777, Ext. 275, Fax: 301.816.2429 Hdepaula at arcmontmd.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 530 bytes Desc: image001.gif URL: From habnkid at aol.com Fri May 29 01:00:47 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 18:00:47 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] TestMasters LSAT materials Message-ID: <4A1F33BF.8000805@aol.com> Hello list, Those of you who have used LSAT prep materials from TestMasters, do you remember if the electronic format of the books were formatted well for braille use? I'm wondering if I could just have them email me the electronic copy of their book and then I could simply open the file in Duxbury and emboss it myself. Often times electronic copies of books need to be reformatted for braille use, and I am wondering if this is the case for TestMasters LSAT materials. Haben From dgoraya at ucla.edu Fri May 29 06:41:20 2009 From: dgoraya at ucla.edu (deepa goraya) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 23:41:20 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] answer to LSAT prep materials question Message-ID: <9D2159F0E36C42A8968D148B0C76566B@deepa8b7ac5f2a> Hi Haben, When you get electronic copies of books from Testmasters, you should make sure they are formatted correctly. When I got mine, they were in PDF format and when they had scanned the books, the formatting was all messed up. So I had to ask them to clean up the documents and then send them as Microsoft Word documents. They are easier to navigate as a MS Word document. If you get them in this format and they are cleaned up, they should be able to be embossed. Hope this helps, Deepa From cjmc404 at gmail.com Fri May 29 14:04:58 2009 From: cjmc404 at gmail.com (cory McMahon) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 09:04:58 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Message-ID: <83ABF36BB70F4ABD85EDD92D43B97402@DDH3MGF1> FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice ----- Original Message ----- From: Maurer, Patricia To: jobs at nfbnet.org Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 8:31 AM Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 9:25 AM To: nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; nwpatton at law.stanford.edu; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu; president at abaw.org; president at adc.org; president at apabala.org; president at blackwomenlawyersla.org; president at dominicanbarassociation.org; president at mabl.org; president at msba.org; president at phillybarristers.org Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies a.. ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 09-SDTX-04 (TERM-CIVIL) The position is open until filled. The initial cutoff date for receipt of applications is June 2, 2009. Date posted: 05-26-2009 b.. ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 09-SDTX-03 (TERM) The position is open until filled. The initial cutoff date for receipt of applications is June 2, 2009. Date posted: 05-26-2009 c.. ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA 09-GAN-AUSA-02 Hiring process is ongoing and will remain open until the positions are filled. Date posted: 05-22-2009 d.. ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA 09-GAN-AUSA-01 Hiring process is ongoing and will remain open until the positions are filled. Date posted: 05-22-2009 e.. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ATTACHE - PARIS OFFICE OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS (OIA) CRIMINAL DIVISION EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-14 to GS-15 Submissions must be post-marked or received June 19, 2009. Date posted: 05-22-2009 f.. ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF WEST VIRGINIA ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 09-SDWV-01 To be considered for a position, send a resume no later than June 19, 2009. Date posted: 05-21-2009 g.. ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 09-NDCA-E-02 Applications must be received by June 1, 2009. Date posted: 05-20-2009 h.. EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEY DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION NARCOTIC AND DANGEROUS DRUG SECTION VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 09-CRM-NDDS-015 This position is open for 7 days, this position closes on May 27, 2009. Date posted: 05-20-2009 i.. ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF COLORADO VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 09-CO-AUSA-04 Applications must be received by close of business (5:00pm Mountain Standard Time) on Wednesday, May 27, 2009. Date posted: 05-19-2009 j.. VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF LOUISIANA 09-EDLA-AUSA Applications for AUSA positions are accepted on a continuous basis, with interviews conducted to fill vacancies as they arise. Date posted: 05-15-2009 k.. ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 09-AUSASDGA-01 No later than May 24, 2009, please send a resume, writing sample, and a cover letter . Date posted: 05-15-2009 l.. U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION EMPLOYMENT LITIGATION SECTION DEPUTY CHIEF, GS-905-15 This position is open until June 3, 2009. Date posted: 05-14-2009 m.. U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF ENFORCEMENT OPERATIONS POLICY AND STATUTORY ENFORCEMENT UNIT TRIAL ATTORNEY, GS-13/14/15 Vacancy Announcement: 09-CRM-OEO-016 Applications will be accepted until August 13, 2009. Date posted: 05-14-2009 n.. ATTORNEY VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ENVIRONMENT AND NATURAL RESOURCES DIVISION ENVIRONMENTAL DEFENSE SECTION WASHINGTON, D.C. GS-15 OPEN: MAY 14, 2009 CLOSE: MAY 22, 2009 VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: ENRD-09-024-EXC Applications must be received by May 22, 2009 Date posted: 05-14-2009 o.. FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS OFFICE OF GENERAL COUNSEL DISCRIMINATION COMPLAINTS AND ETHICS BRANCH ASSOCIATE GENERAL COUNSEL (SUPERVISORY ATTORNEY-ADVISOR) GS-905-15 This position is open until filled, but no later than May 27, 2009. Date posted: 05-13-2009 p.. IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW STEWART COUNTY, GA. VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-09-0061 Applications received after June 10, 2009, will not be accepted. Date posted: 05-12-2009 The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/cjmc404%40gmail.com From angie.matney at gmail.com Fri May 29 15:24:40 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 11:24:40 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Obama administration opposes treaty to protect rights of print disabled Message-ID: <4a1ffe35.14045a0a.0f21.7eac@mx.google.com> A blog post concerning the proposed WIPO treaty to protect the reading rights of blind and people and people with disabilities, and on the Obama Administration's opposition to it. There are also some interesting links on the web site,m at the bottom of the post. I am only including the text of the post. http://www.boingboing.net/2009/05/29/usa-canada-and-the-e.html computer generated text to speech, or large type. These works, which are expensive to make, are typically created under national exceptions to copyright law that are specifically written to benefit persons with disabilities... The opposition from the United States and other high income countries is due to intense lobbying from a large group of publishers that oppose a "paradigm shift," where treaties would protect consumer interests, rather than expand rights for copyright owners. The Obama Administration was lobbied heavily on this issue, including meetings with high level White House officials. Assurances coming into the negotiations this week that things were going in the right direction have turned out to be false, as the United States delegation has basically read from a script written by lobbyists for publishers, extolling the virtues of market based solutions, ignoring mountains of evidence of a "book famine" and the insane legal barriers to share works. From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Fri May 29 16:09:22 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 09:09:22 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Attorney General Issues New Call to Action Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA70@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> -----Original Message----- From: Stuart Wittenstein [mailto:swittenstein at csb-cde.ca.gov] Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 7:57 AM Subject: FW: Breaking News - Attorney General Issues New Call to Action Hi CAC members, I thought you'd be interested in this message from the federal government re: hiring goals for persons with disabilities. Please note that the author of this message is our graduation speaker on Monday, June 1 at 1 PM. Please make it down to CSB if you can to listen to Ollie Cantos give CSB's 149th commencement address. Stuart Wittenstein, Ed.D. Superintendent California School for the Blind 500 Walnut Avenue Fremont, CA 94536 510-794-3800, X201 "A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives."Jackie Robinson ________________________________ From: Cantos, Ollie (CRT) [mailto:Ollie.Cantos at usdoj.gov] Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 6:07 PM Subject: Breaking News - Attorney General Issues New Call to Action Dear Colleagues: What a wonderful opportunity this is to be in touch with you again, especially after more than two months. The primary reason surrounding this time gap in communications stems from our having to work on issues relating to our software, which is still in need of upgrading to the new operating system. But, in light of very recent developments within the past 24 hours or so, I simply had to find a way to get the word out quickly, even before system improvements are implemented and finalized. Having just returned from travel late last night, my goal today has been to get in touch with you as quickly as possible. Getting right to the heart of today's email, I am extremely pleased to share information with you that is late-breaking. Our Attorney General, Eric Holder, head of the U.S. Department of Justice, has just issued a Department-wide call to hire and promote persons with targeted disabilities (i.e., those with physical, psychiatric, and intellectual disabilities) to be hired to fill positions for which they qualify within the various Department components. As such, within my capacity as Member of the Attorney General's Committee on Employment of Persons with Disabilities, I immediately wanted to share with you the original Portable Document File format copy of a Department memorandum, dated May 27, 2009 (text also pasted below). I strongly advise you to print and retain this memo for your records and to share this important document with everyone in your respective networks who wishes to seek employment in our Department. Job-seekers may include a copy of this memo in their applications as a reminder to hiring authorities of the call to action issued by the Attorney General. Supplementing this PDF, I am also taking the liberty of re-sending to the network an article on employment of individuals with disabilities, which was last revised in late 2007. Of specific note, job-seekers may wish to utilize "Schedule A" Hiring Authority, which allows individuals with targeted disabilities to be hired non-competitively into all levels of leadership (with the position later ideally to be converted from probationary status to permanent employment). The article describes this further. Also contained in the piece are dozens of national resources that may assist with efforts to attain gainful employment. I can tell you from my personal perspective that working in this Department has been an amazing and fulfilling experience in more ways than one. I would like nothing more than for all individuals with disabilities, who have an interest in joining our ranks, to make application to available positions for which they qualify To make this more of a concerted effort, I am taking the liberty of sending a CC of this email to Fred Parmenter, an attorney with the Antitrust Division, who is also the founder and chair of the Attorney General's Committee on which I sit. (This Committee first came into being under Attorney General Reno during the years of the Clinton Administration.) He may provide you with additional insight and guidance. Even if you yourself may not be interested in serving with us here at the Justice Department, I respectfully urge you to forward this information far and wide because of the direct difference that may be made in someone's life as a result. President Obama has expressed a commitment to advancing employment opportunities for persons with disabilities, and our Attorney General has now followed the President's lead by communicating to all component heads his commitment to advance Management Directive 715, issued by the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, which affirmatively encourages the recruitment, hiring, retention, and promotion of persons with disabilities (among others). Help us fulfill the goal of greater employment of individuals with disabilities by ensuring that every community member that you know ends up receiving this email, and urge them to spread the word still further. Encourage posting of this information on websites, on social networks, on newsgroups, and in online and offline organization and agency publications. Help us achieve the goal of our having 2% of our workforce of more than 100,000 consist of people with disabilities. Take action immediately so that, together, we may contribute to the lives of persons with disabilities being changed for the better while infusing this Department with the richness of talents, abilities, and skills that will effectively contribute to the Department's mission being fulfilled in every way. Thank you very much, and here's to everyone's success! Sincerely, Olegario D. Cantos VII, Esq. Member Attorney General's Committee on Employment of Persons with Disabilities OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL Washington, DC 20530 May 27, 2009 MEMORANDUM FOR HEADS OF DEPARTMENT COMPONENTS FROM: THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SUBJECT: Hiring Goals for Persons with Targeted Disabilities President Barack Obama has a comprehensive agenda to empower individuals with disabilities and enhance access to employment for all Americans. As Attorney General, I am committed to making the Department of Justice (DOJ) a model employer with a diverse workforce that includes people with disabilities. The Department, like other Federal agencies, must comply with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission's Management Directive 715, which requires hiring goals to increase employment and advancement of people with disabilities. While I recognize that DOJ's workforce is comprised of many law enforcement positions that have physical requirements, I ask that managers, supervisors, and hiring officials assist me in working toward a Department-wide two-percent hiring goal of people with disabilities. If achieved, this goal will align DOJ with the most successful agencies in employing individuals with severe disabilities. The Justice Management Division's (JMD) Human Resources and Equal Employment Opportunity Staffs are available to assist you and to provide information on special hiring authorities and accommodations for people with disabilities. These offices also will report quarterly to me on the Department's progress. If you have any questions you may contact Rod Markham, Director, Human Resources Staff, JMD or Vontell D. Frost-Tucker, Director, Equal Employment Opportunity Staff, JMD. President Obama has said, "We must build a world free of unnecessary barriers, stereotypes, and discrimination. Policies must be developed, attitudes must be shaped, and buildings and organizations must be designed to ensure that everyone has a chance to get the education they need and live independently as full citizens in their communities." I am asking the DOJ leadership for its pledge to incorporate talented persons with disabilities into the workplace. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 15325 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: HiringGoalsforPersonsWithTargetedDisabilities-frischSIGNED.PDF Type: application/octet-stream Size: 45281 bytes Desc: HiringGoalsforPersonsWithTargetedDisabilities-frischSIGNED.PDF URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Article-0071204-Employment of People with Disabilities.doc Type: application/msword Size: 140800 bytes Desc: Article-0071204-Employment of People with Disabilities.doc URL: From DFrye at nfb.org Fri May 29 19:05:47 2009 From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 15:05:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Encouraging News on the WIPO Issue Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BE033C1@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Colleagues: This is a rapidly evolving situation it would seem. I don't think the following suggests that this issue has been fully addressed, but it is optimistic news in the context of international negotiations. The following information will offer more detail for your consideration. I would not allow this ray of hope to discourage any plan you might have made to convey your opinion to the Obama administration on this issue. I should acknowledge Chris Danielsen for sharing this updated information with me: From: James Love [mailto:james.love at keionline.org ] Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 2:52 PM To: rrc Subject: SCCR meeting A new draft of the conclusions from the WIPO SCCR is now out. The draft is quite good. There are 18 paragraphs. Here is paragraph 2 2. The Committee expressed its appreciation for the Proposal by Brazil, Ecuador and Paraguay Relating to Limitations and Exceptions: Treaty Proposed by the World Blind Union (WBU). Views were expressed: supporting the proposal for a binding instrument; expressing the wish for more time to analyze it; expressing the desire to continue the work on the basis of a global and inclusive framework; and expressing that deliberations regarding any instrument would be premature. Member states will continue to consult on these issues at national level and report on the activities and views on possible solutions. This proposal, together with other possible proposals and contributions by the Members of the Committee, will be discussed at the nineteenth session of the SCCR. For those who did not attend, I can tell you that this result is quite good (certainly much better than we expected), and reflects the value of the extensive efforts by the members of the WBU, civil society NGOs and developing country governments who overcame very very determined resistance by a nearly united front of right owners who opposed a treaty in this area, and the stiff resistance from the European Union, and the opposition from the United States and other members of "Group B" countries in WIPO, who had argued it was "premature" to have such discussions, and who wanted WIPO to focus its efforts on a combination of sharing of information on national regimes and voluntary solutions only. -- James Love, Director, Knowledge Ecology International http://www.keionline.org | mailto:james.love at keionline.org Wk: +1.202.332.2671 | US Mobile +1.202.361.3040 | Geneva Mobile +41.76.413.6584 From habnkid at aol.com Fri May 29 19:12:24 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 12:12:24 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] More TestMasters Questions Message-ID: <4A203398.7020508@aol.com> Good Morning, For those who used TestMasters, what services did you use exactly? Did you work with a tutor, attend the course, or just study their course books independently? Haben From DFrye at nfb.org Fri May 29 19:30:56 2009 From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 14:30:56 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] International Copyright Concerns for Blind Readers Message-ID: Colleagues: I am circulating a lengthy post regarding efforts to limit an international treaty that would allow for rules that parallel existing domestic exceptions to the copyright law for blind people to govern in an international context. Please help bring pressure on authorities by letting President Obama know that these provisions would be useful, and ask him to direct his representatives to abandon their hostile posture toward aspects of the treaty that would be helpful. You may Email your concerns to: President at whitehouse.gov The post follows: Right now, in Geneva, at the UN's World Intellectual Property Organization, history is being made. For the first time in WIPO history, the body that creates the world's copyright treaties is attempting to write a copyright treaty dedicated to protecting the interests of copyright users, not just copyright owners. At issue is a treaty to protect the rights of blind people and people with other disabilities that affect reading (people with dyslexia, people who are paralyzed or lack arms or hands for turning pages). This should be a slam dunk: who wouldn't want a harmonized system of copyright exceptions that ensure that it's possible for disabled people to get access to the written word? The USA, that's who. The Obama administration' US negotiators have joined with a rogue's gallery of rich country trade representatives to oppose protection for blind people. Other nations and regions opposing the rights of blind people include Canada and the EU. Update: Also opposing rights for disabled people: Australia, New Zealand, the Vatican and Norway. Activists at WIPO are desperate to get the word out. They're tweeting madly from the negotiation (technically called the 18th session of the Standing Committee on Copyright and Related Rights) publishing editorials on the Huffington Post, etc. Here's where you come in: this has to get wide exposure, to get cast as broadly as possible, so that it will find its way into the ears of the obscure power-brokers who control national trade-negotiators. I don't often ask readers to do things like this, but please, forward this post to people you know in the US, Canada and the EU, and ask them to reblog, tweet, and spread the word, especially to government officials and activists who work on disabled rights. We know that WIPO negotiations can be overwhelmed by citizen activists -- that's how we killed the Broadcast Treaty negotiation a few years back -- and with your help, we can make history, and create a world where copyright law protects the public interest. I am attending a meeting in Geneva of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). This evening the United States government, in combination with other high income countries in "Group B" is seeking to block an agreement to discuss a treaty for persons who are blind or have other reading disabilities. The proposal for a treaty is supported by a large number of civil society NGOs, the World Blind Union, the National Federation of the Blind in the US, the International DAISY Consortium, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic (RFB&D), Bookshare.Org, and groups representing persons with reading disabilities all around the world. The main aim of the treaty is to allow the cross-border import and export of digital copies of books and other copyrighted works in formats that are accessible to persons who are blind, visually impaired, dyslexic or have other reading disabilities, using special devices that present text as refreshable braille, computer generated text to speech, or large type. These works, which are expensive to make, are typically created under national exceptions to copyright law that are specifically written to benefit persons with disabilities. .. The opposition from the United States and other high income countries is due to intense lobbying from a large group of publishers that oppose a "paradigm shift," where treaties would protect consumer interests, rather than expand rights for copyright owners. The Obama Administration was lobbied heavily on this issue, including meetings with high level White House officials. Assurances coming into the negotiations this week that things were going in the right direction have turned out to be false, as the United States delegation has basically read from a script written by lobbyists for publishers, extolling the virtues of market based solutions, ignoring mountains of evidence of a "book famine" and the insane legal barriers to share works. Obama Joins Group to Block Treaty for Blind and Other Reading Disabilities COPYRIGHT EXCEPTIONS AND LIMITATIONS Twitter feed for #sccr18 With Kind Regards, *********************** Daniel B. Frye, J.D. Associate Editor The Braille Monitor National Federation of the Blind Office of the President 1800 Johnson Street Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Fax: (410) 685-5653 Email: DFrye at nfb.org Web Address: www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's Blind" From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Fri May 29 22:27:03 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 15:27:03 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] More TestMasters Questions In-Reply-To: <4A203398.7020508@aol.com> Message-ID: <56DC0001B7764E0682CFEC9A5A234561@DF5R2QD1> Dear Haben, I took the course through one-on-one tutoring. The tutor came to meet me after work at my office and I went through the entire standard TestMasters course. I could be wrong, but I don't think there was an online option when I took it. I also don't think thee was an option to buy their material and study on your own. The two options wee to take a standard class taught a few times a week or to do individual tutoring. Even though it was expensive, Department of Rehab paid for my entire TestMaster's experience (I live in California). Best, Stephanie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Haben Girma Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 12:12 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] More TestMasters Questions Good Morning, For those who used TestMasters, what services did you use exactly? Did you work with a tutor, attend the course, or just study their course books independently? Haben _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com From dandrews at visi.com Sat May 30 16:09:11 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 11:09:11 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Updated NFB National Convention Agenda Message-ID: Minor updates have been made to the 2009 NFB convention agenda. Please see below. In addition it was converted to text before being pasted in this e-mail message, so those of you who had e-mail problems with it previously shouldn't have them this time. If you wish to download the full Microsoft Word document, go to the link below. http://www.nfb.org/nfb/National_Convention.asp 2009 ANNUAL CONVENTION DETROIT, MICHIGAN JULY 3 to JULY 8 THE MEMBERS OF THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF MICHIGAN WELCOME YOU TO THE 69th ANNUAL CONVENTION OF THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND Marc Maurer, President National Federation of the Blind 1800 Johnson Street Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Mary Ellen Jernigan Executive Director for Operations and Chairwoman, Convention Organization and Activities Fred Wurtzel, President National Federation of the Blind of Michigan 1212 North Foster Avenue Lansing, Michigan 48912-3309 Detroit Marriott® at the Renaissance Center Renaissance Center (313) 568-8000 Courtyard by Marriott® 333 E. Jefferson Avenue (313) 222-7700 DETROIT MARRIOTT The 69th annual convention of the National Federation of the Blind is being held in Michigan at the Detroit Marriott® at the Renaissance Center. As usual, our hotel rates are very good: singles and doubles $62, triples $66, and quads $68. In addition to the room rates, there is a 15 percent sales tax. There is no charge for children under eighteen in the room with parents as long as no extra bed is required. Proof of convention registration is necessary, including the showing of an NFB registration badge if requested. Otherwise, regular hotel rates must be paid. The Detroit Marriott is a seventy-two story round hotel in the middle of a larger complex of buildings known as the Renaissance Center. The lowest level is the Motor Lobby where people arriving by taxis and automobiles enter the hotel. There are bellmen at this entrance and elevators going directly to the main lobby of the hotel, which is located on Level Three. All hotel meeting rooms, ballrooms, and the exhibit hall are on Levels Three, Four, and Five. A bank of twelve elevators is located in the center of the hotel in a corridor oriented along the east-west axis of the building. The first six elevators at the west end of the corridor (three on each side) serve floors one, three, four, five, and forty through seventy. The next six elevators (three on each side) serve floors one, three, four, five, and nine through forty. Just beyond each end of the elevator corridor a set of escalators serves Levels Three, Four, and Five. To reach the main hotel lobby you should leave the elevator corridor heading west. The hotel restaurant (Forty-two Degrees North) and Volt (a bar which also serves an extensive array of food) can be entered from the main lobby. Many other food outlets including a large food court are located on Levels A, One, and Two in the Renaissance Center complex. The easiest way to exit the hotel proper into other parts of the Renaissance Center Complex is to use an escalator located near the Coach Insignia Restaurant elevator at the south end of Level Three of the hotel. The Detroit Marriott has a smoke-free policy. COURTYARD MARRIOTT The Courtyard Marriott is connected to Level Two of the Renaissance Center Complex by an enclosed overhead walkway. It may also be reached by leaving the Renaissance Center at Level One through the Jefferson Lobby. We are using both sleeping rooms and meeting space in the Courtyard Marriott. “MOTOR CITY” MARCH FOR INDEPENDENCE: SUPPORTING OUR IMAGINATION FUND CAMPAIGN On Monday, July 6, we open the convention with our spectacular third March for Independence. Marching through downtown Detroit, we will celebrate our liberty among friends, family members, and supporters. Please gather for this fundraising and “friend-raising” walk-a-thon and rally at 6:45 Monday morning in the Wintergarden on Level A of the Detroit Marriott. Most of the route is along the beautiful RiverWalk promenade and culminates with a rally in Rivard Plaza. Marcher drop-in briefing sessions are on Sunday, July 5, from 7:00 to 10:00 pm. Let’s walk together to make the Motor City March a truly magnificent event. NFB OF MICHIGAN HOSPITALITY DANCE! Our host affiliate invites you to celebrate with them by renewing old friendships and/or forming new ones on Monday, July 6, at 7:00 pm in the Ambassador Ballroom, Level 3. Entertainment by “Nine,” a nine-piece band that will perform Motown, soul, classic rock, pop, and old standards—guaranteed to create an exciting atmosphere and stir pleasant memories. ROOKIE ROUNDUP All first-time convention attendees are cordially invited to attend a reception from 8:00 to 10:00 pm on Friday, July 3, in the Ambassador Ballroom One, Level 3. President Maurer and other Federation leaders will be on hand to welcome you to the convention and preview the week’s activities. Veteran conventioneers should urge all first-timers to attend this special event. Also, first-time rookies are invited to join an informal, fun gathering on Sunday, July 5, from 12:00 noon to 2:00 pm in the Affiliate Action Suite 6801. REGISTRATION & PREREGISTRATION Registration activities take place in the Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 beginning at 9:00 am on Saturday, July 4; at 8:30 am on Sunday, July 5; and at other times as listed throughout the week. The fee for registration at convention is $20 per person (if you preregistered before May 31, the fee was $15), and all those attending the convention (both local and out of town people) are asked to register. Convention registration is a requirement for door prize eligibility and a number of other convention activities. We condition rates for hotel rooms on proof of registration, including the showing of an NFB registration badge if requested. Therefore, please register as soon as possible after arrival. EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET Exhibits and the NFB Independence Market are located in the Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3. The exhibit hall hours are: Saturday 9:00 am to 5:00 pm Sunday 8:30 am to 5:00 pm Monday Noon to 1:45 pm; sponsors only from 7:00-10:00 pm Tuesday Noon to 1:45 pm—Note: This is the final time that Independence Market and Literature will be open. Tuesday 7:00 to 10:00 pm—Exhibit Hall only; Independence Market and Literature closed) There is a special event for sponsor-level exhibitors only on Monday, July 6, from 7:00 to 10:00 pm (see “Special Attention” section and agenda listing for more information). Sign up for NFB-NEWSLINE® at the NEWSLINE table, check the agenda for times to visit Room 6401 to learn about it, or call local number (313) 483-1147 to use NEWSLINE at convention. Any alterations in the general session schedule which may occur during the convention will result in conforming shifts in the exhibit schedule and will be announced in the exhibit areas. A number of affiliated NFB divisions and committees have tables. Many new electronic devices are demonstrated, as well as a special exhibit of materials and resources for the deaf-blind. MEETINGS General sessions of the convention are being held in the Renaissance Ballroom, Level 4 on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. The morning sessions convene at 9:30 am on Monday, and 9:00 am on Tuesday and Wednesday. The convention adjourns promptly at 5:00 pm on Wednesday, July 8. Please note that all requests for announcements by Dr. Maurer during general sessions must be submitted in Braille. BANQUET AND BANQUET TICKET EXCHANGE The banquet is being held in the Renaissance Ballroom, Level 4 at 7:00 pm, Wednesday, July 8. Banquet tickets purchased at convention are $40.00 (the cost was $35 if purchased before May 31) and are on sale during registration on Saturday and Sunday, and from noon to 12:30 and 1:30 to 2:00 pm on Monday. No banquet tickets will be available for purchase after Monday. It will be necessary to have your banquet ticket with you to attend the banquet; it will be collected at the banquet table. Arrangements should be made for reserved table assignments by taking the ticket(s) you purchase to the Banquet Exchange Table in the registration area, where you may exchange either an individual ticket or a group of tickets for reserved seating. Banquet tables seat ten people. RELIGIOUS SERVICES AND DEVOTIONS On Sunday, July 5, Fr. Gregory Paul, C.P., will celebrate a Roman Catholic Mass at 7:15 am in Ambassador Ballroom One, Level 3. Also on Sunday at 11:45 am services for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will be held in Ambassador Ballroom One, Level 3. Devotional services will be held in Ambassador Ballroom One, Level 3, at 7:30 am on Tuesday, and 8:00 am on Wednesday. Please note there is no service on Monday morning. Services are nonsectarian and will end at least fifteen minutes prior to morning convention sessions. knfbReader MOBILE THE CELL PHONE THAT READS PRINT With the power of digital photography and unique cell phone software, reading print on the go wherever you are is now possible for blind people. Come and learn about this fabulous, life-changing technology in the exhibit hall and at demonstration and training sessions planned in the afternoon on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday and in the evening on Tuesday. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! SPECIAL ATTENTION IS CALLED TO THE FOLLOWING ITEMS • A Federation Information Desk will be in the registration area from Saturday morning, July 4, through Wednesday, July 8, if you have questions or need assistance. The Michigan affiliate will also maintain a table near the hotel check in desk in the main lobby to provide assistance and hospitality during much of the convention. • When you register, you will be given a badge. Please wear it at all times during the convention. • The room number for the Presidential Suite is 7010. Someone will be on hand in the Presidential Suite throughout most of the convention to greet you and make appointments for you with the President or anyone else you wish to see. The Presidential Suite will not be open during the business sessions of the convention, the Sunday morning Board of Directors meeting, Monday morning (due to the Independence March), or the Wednesday evening banquet. Come to the Presidential Suite. You will be most welcome. • The room number for Mary Ellen Jernigan, Chairwoman of Convention Organization and Activities, is 6910. Questions concerning hotel rooms, meeting rooms, banquet, scheduling, registration, and other matters dealing with convention arrangements should be referred to the Chairwoman of Convention Organization and Activities. • Individuals needing to conduct business with the NFB Treasurer may do so by going to the DaVinci Room, Level 4 on Monday, July 6, between 5:30 and 7:30 pm, or on Tuesday, July 7, between 12:00 noon and 2:00 pm. • The Michigan Suite (Fred Wurtzel, President) is 6805. • The Affiliate Action and Rookie Activities Suite (Joanne Wilson and Pam Allen, Coordinators) is 6801. • We are again offering NFB Camp (child-care services) for children six weeks through ten years of age in Marquette A and B Rooms, Level 5 during convention sessions, most meetings, and the banquet. Preregistration and payment by June 15 were required for NFB Camp. NFB Camp is organized and supervised by Carla McQuillan, the executive director of Main Street Montessori Association. Alison McQuillan, camp worker and teacher since 1998, is the activities director. Please note that NFB Camp provides morning and afternoon snacks, but parents are required to provide lunch for their child(ren) every day. Times listed are the opening and closing times for NFB Camp. A late fee of $10 will be assessed for all late pickups. NFB Camp hours: Friday, 7/3 8:30 am to 5:30 pm Saturday, 7/4 Closed Sunday, 7/5 8:30 am to 12:30 pm and 1:00 to 5:30 pm Monday, 7/6 9:00 am to 12:30 pm and 1:30 to 5:30 pm Tuesday, 7/7 8:30 am to 12:30 pm and 1:30 to 5:30 pm Wednesday, 7/8 8:30 am to 12:30 pm and 1:30 to 5:30 pm Banquet 7/8 6:30 pm to 30 minutes after closing • A Special Evening For Sponsor-Level Exhibitors: Again this year, the exhibit hall will reopen from 7:00 to 10:00 pm on Monday, July 6, for a very special evening dedicated solely to Sponsor-Level Exhibitors listed here. Come and bring a guest to say “thank you” to our sponsors and to enjoy their interesting offers and demonstrations. Our convention sponsors are—Platinum: HumanWare and UPS; Gold: Deque Systems, Inc., Freedom Scientific, and Oracle; Silver: En-Vision America, Intel®, and Wal-Mart; Bronze: Adobe, Council of U.S. Dog Guide Schools (CUSDGS), IBM, Independent Living Aids (ILA), and Microsoft; Exhibit Hall: GW Micro, J&B Medical Supply, National Industries for the Blind, ReadHowYouWant, and Roche Diagnostics. • The ever-popular Showcase of Talent is back again at 7:00 pm on Tuesday, July 7, presented by the Performing Arts Division. Admission price is $5.00. If you would like to participate in the Showcase, make sure to sign up early by contacting Beth Allred at the convention. • Raffle tickets will not be sold in the registration area, and no raffles or other such drawings will take place during convention sessions or at the banquet. The single exception to this rule will be that national divisions may (if they request it in advance) conduct such drawings during the convention or at the banquet. LaSalle A Room, Level 5 will be set aside at 12:00 noon on Wednesday, July 8, for all other drawings. Any group or affiliate wishing to conduct drawings at this time (or any person wishing to know the winners) may go at noon on Wednesday to the LaSalle A Room. AFFILIATED DIVISIONS, COMMITTEES, AND GROUPS The Federation carries on its business through divisions, committees, and groups. The meetings of some of these have been scheduled for particular times and are listed in the agenda. Others have not been formally scheduled but will meet at the call of their chairpersons or presidents. If you have matters that you would like to discuss with any of the following divisions, committees, or groups, you should contact: Divisions: • Agriculture and Equestrian: Fred Chambers, President; • Assistive Technology Trainers: Michael Barber, President; • Classics, Antiques, and Rods or Special Interest Vehicles (CARS): Joseph B. Naulty, President; • Deaf-Blind: Burnell Brown, President; • Diabetes Action Network for the Blind: Michael Freeman, President; • Human Services: Melissa Riccobono, President; • National Association of the Blind in Communities of Faith: Tom Anderson, President; • National Association of Blind Entrepreneurs: James R. Bonerbo, President; • National Association of Blind Lawyers: Scott LaBarre, President; • National Association of Blind Merchants: Kevan Worley, President; • National Association of Blind Office Professionals: Lisa Hall, President; • National Association of Blind Piano Technicians: Don Mitchell, President; • National Association of Blind Rehabilitation Professionals: Melody Lindsey, President; • National Association of Blind Students: Terri Rupp, President; • National Association of Blind Veterans: Dwight Sayer, President; • National Association of Guide Dog Users: Marion Gwizdala, President; • National Association to Promote the Use of Braille (NAPUB): Nadine Jacobson, President; • National Federation of the Blind in Computer Science: Curtis Chong, President; • National Federation of the Blind Krafters: Joyce Kane, President; • National Federation of the Blind Seniors: Judy Sanders, President; • National Organization of Blind Educators: Sheila Koenig, President; • National Organization of Parents of Blind Children (NOPBC): Carol Castellano, President; • Performing Arts: Dennis Holston, President; • Public Employees: Ivan Weich, President; • Science and Engineering: John Miller, President; • Sports and Recreation: Lisamaria Martinez, President; • Travel and Tourism: Don Gillmore, President; • Writers: Robert Leslie Newman, President. Committees: • Ambassadors: Angela Wolf, Chairperson; • Blind Educator of the Year Award: David Ticchi, Chairperson; • Committee on Assistive Technology (COAT): Curtis Chong, Chairperson; • Committee on Automobile and Pedestrian Safety (CAPS): Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson; • Committee to Empower Underserved Populations (CEUP): Ron Brown, Chairperson; • Cultural Exchange and International Program: Diane McGeorge, Chairperson; • Distinguished Educator of Blind Children Award: Joyce Scanlan, Chairperson; • Employment: Buna Dahal, Chairperson; • Imagination Fund: Kevan Worley, Chairperson; • Jacobus tenBroek Award: Ramona Walhof, Chairperson; • Jacobus tenBroek Memorial Fund: Tami Jones, Chairperson; • Kenneth Jernigan Fund: Allen Harris, Chairperson; • Library Services: David Hyde, Chairperson; • Loan Fund: Donald C. Capps, Chairperson; • Membership: Ron Gardner, Chairperson; • Newel Perry Award: Allen Harris, Chairperson; • Newsletter Publications: Norma Crosby, Chairperson; • NFB-NEWSLINE® Program Steering: David DeNotaris, Chairperson; • PAC Plan: Scott LaBarre, Chairperson; • Planned Giving: John Halverson, Chairperson; • Promotion, Evaluation, and Advancement of Technology: Gary Wunder, Chairperson; • Public Relations: Barbara Pierce, Chairperson; • Research and Development: Curtis Chong, Chairperson; • Resolutions: Sharon Maneki, Chairperson; • Scholarship: Anil Lewis, Chairperson; • Shares Unlimited in NFB (SUN): Sandy Halverson, Chairperson; • Spanish Translation: Norman Gardner, Chairperson; • White Cane and Affiliate Finance: Alpidio Rolón, Chairperson. Groups: • Blind Musicians: Linda Mentink, Chairperson; • Blind Parents: Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson; • Blind Professional Journalists: Elizabeth Campbell and Bryan Bashin, Co-Chairpersons; • Educators of Blind Children: Gail Wagner, Chairperson; • Geordi's Engineers: Lorraine Rovig, Chairperson; • Legislative Initiatives Discussion: Don Burns, Coordinator; • Living History: Michael Freholm, Chairperson; • NFB Ham Radio: D. Curtis Willoughby, Chairperson; • NFB in Judaism: David Stayer, Chairperson; • NFB Lions: Ramona Walhof and Milton Ota, Co-Chairpersons; • Orientation and Mobility: Edward C. Bell, Chairperson; • Professionals in Blindness Education: Heather Field, Chairperson; • Webmasters: Gary Wunder, Chairperson. CONVENTION AGENDA FRIDAY, JULY 3, 2009 7:30 - 8:45 am—HAM RADIO GROUP EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS Raphael Room, Level 4 Discuss hotel frequencies and architectural features and distributing special FM receivers for the hearing-impaired and Spanish-speaking attendees. D. Curtis Willoughby (KA0VBA), Chairperson 7:45 am - 6:30 pm—THE FUTURE IS OURS AND THEIRS Parent, Rehabilitation, and Orientation & Mobility Joint Conference for Families and Rehabilitation Professionals (7:45 - 8:45 am—Registration and coffee; 12:00 to 2:00 pm—NBPCB Awards Luncheon, Ambassador Three Ballroom) Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 NOPBC Fees: Adults $30; Youth (13-18) $20; Children (5-12) $10 NABRP Fees (includes lunch): Students $75; Professionals $100 Note: Conference admission included with either registration above. Sponsors: National Organization of Parents of Blind Children (NOPBC); National Blindness Professional Certification Board (NBPCB); National Association of Blind Rehabilitation Professionals (NABRP); and the Professional Development & Research Institute on Blindness (PDRIB) at the Louisiana Tech University. Chairpersons: Carol Castellano and Edward Bell 8:00 am - 4:30 pm—PROFESSIONALS IN BLINDNESS EDUCATION Duluth B Room, Level 5 Heather Field, Chairperson 8:30 am—NFB CAMP: IT’S MORE THAN CHILD’S PLAY (CHILD CARE) Marquette A and B Rooms, Level 5 Please see “Special Attention” section of agenda for further information. (Preregistration by June 15 was required.) 8:30 - 11:30 am—WHAT’S NEW IN JAWS 10 AND MAGic 11, AND A FIRST LOOK AT JAWS 11—FREEDOM SCIENTIFIC, INC. Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 Join Eric Damery, JAWS Product Manager, for an exciting and informative session covering all of the new details surrounding JAWS and MAGic development. This will also be the first look at JAWS 11 scheduled for public beta in August and includes a demo of Windows 7. Bring questions! FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 8:30 am - 5:00 pm—IBTC’S ACCESS TECHNOLOGY SEMINARS Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 8:30 - 10:00 am—Mobile productivity on cell phones. 10:30 am - noon—Create DAISY books from your desktop. 1:30 - 3:00 pm—Web 2.0 features with screen access software. 3:30 - 5:00 pm—Lesser-known names in screen access software. 9:00 am - 12:00 noon—GW MICRO: BRAILLE SENSE PLUS AND VOICE SENSE—Registration $10; Refreshments provided. Nicolet A Room, Level 5 The Braille Sense Plus is the lightest note taker with a 32-cell Braille display, and the Voice Sense is the smallest note taker. Learn about the features of GW note takers including the GW Sense Navigation GPS. Presenters: Raul Gallegos and Chris Park. To register, call (260) 489-3671. 9:00 am - 5:00 pm—NFB YOUTH TRACK SESSIONS (ages 14-18) Sponsored by NFB Jernigan Institute; Mary Jo Thorpe, Coordinator Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 9:00 - 10:15 am—PARENTS-REHAB SEMINAR Cascade B Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott 10:30 am - 12:00 noon—ALL ABOUT ME Help shape the future of youth outreach for the NFB. 2:00 - 3:00 pm—BACK & BICEPS, CHEST & TRICEPS Learn the “ropes” about working out in a gym. 3:30 - 5:00 pm—ME AND YOUTUBE An interactive YouTube activity for teens. 9:00 am - 10:00 pm—NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATIONS Room 6401, 64th floor 9:00-11:00 am, 2:00-6:00 pm, and 8:30-10:00 pm—Learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 11:30 am -1:30 pm—Affiliate presidents’ gathering. Learn about NFB- NEWSLINE Online and how to promote NEWSLINE. 6:30 - 8:00 pm—Exhibit for parents and their blind children (ages 10+). FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 10:00 am - 5:00 pm—EMPLOYMENT COMMITTEE SEMINAR Richard B Room, Level 5 10:00 am­Registration; 10:30 am­Seminar begins Key strategies for job hunting: How? Where? What? Remember, innovation and authenticity produce abundant opportunities. Gain the secrets of obtaining and maintaining employment. Buna Dahal, Chairperson 10:15 am - 12:00 noon—NOPBC BRAILLE CARNIVAL (ages 5-13) Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 1:00 - 3:00 pm—PAC MATE, BEYOND NOTE TAKING—FREEDOM SCIENTIFIC, INC. Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 Join Jonathan Mosen as we explore the power of PAC Mate Omni, from beaming your KNFB Reader Mobile documents to be read in Braille, to watching TV right from your PAC Mate Omni. See our new StreetTalk VIP GPS solution in action. 1:00 - 3:00 pm—WRITERS DIVISION WORKSHOP ($5.00 fee) Room 6405, 64th floor Visit with a published author. Robert Leslie Newman, President 1:00 - 4:00 pm—SWIM CLINIC; SPORTS & REC DIVISION Pool, Courtyard Marriott Annie Sawicki, part of the AdapTap team (that designed an award-winning device by blind swimmers), is conducting a swimming workshop. Take a break with a cool dip in the pool. Lisamaria Martinez, President 1:00 - 5:00 pm—HUMANWARE PRODUCT SHOWCASE AND USER GROUPS LaSalle A and B Rooms, Level 5 Sessions: 1:00 Breeze; 2:00 BrailleNote; 3:00 Stream; 4:00 Mobile Devices Join HumanWare and other users to learn about recent updates and share product tips. Ask questions and give us your suggestions for your favorite HumanWare product. Door Prizes for every session! 1:30 - 2:45 pm—knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print—it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 2:00 - 3:30 pm—NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS One-Two Buckle My Shoe, Three-Four Out the Door Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Developmental timelines from preschool through elementary. Instructors: Debbi Head, Heather Field, Annee Hartzell Show Me the Technology: Middle School/High School Renoir Room, Level 4 What is needed, how to work with the school to get it, and what to do when all else fails. Instructors: Dr. Matt Maurer and Al Lovati Literacy for All Skyline B Room, Courtyard Marriott Large print? Braille? Both? How to tell what is best for your child. Great Expectations: Mobility Instruction and Blind Children with Additional Disabilities Skyline A Room, Courtyard Marriott High expectations, real life goals, and how to achieve them in the area of independent travel. Instructor: Denise Mackenstadt 2:00 - 5:00 pm—NOPBC TRIP TO PENRICKTON CENTER Meeting place to be announced Parents of children with significant multiple disabilities can visit this center which uses the Active Learning techniques of Lilli Nielsen. 2:00 - 5:00 pm—NOPBC SESSIONS FOR CHILDREN AND YOUTH (Note to parents: Volunteers will accompany the children from one workshop to the other.) Not-so-mad Scientists: Hands-on Chemistry Experiments: Cascade D Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Dr. Andrew Greenberg, Cary Supalo, Marilyn Winograd, and Dr. Lillian Rankel 2:00 ­ 3:30 pm—For Kindergarten through Grade 5 3:30 ­ 5:00 pm—For Grades 6 through 12 FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued NOPBC SESSIONS FOR CHILDREN AND YOUTH, Cont’d. Tactile Drawings and Representations: Cascade C Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Ann Cunningham and Debbie Kent Stein 2:00 ­ 3:30 pm—For Grades 6 through 12 3:30 ­ 5:00 pm—For Kindergarten through Grade 5 2:00 - 5:00 pm—GW MICRO: WINDOW-EYES TRAINING (Registration $10; Refreshments provided) Nicolet A Room, Level 5 Explore the power of Window-Eyes with advanced scripting support, Office 2007, Windows Vista, and Windows 7. Come to see the best support for the Internet in a screen reader. Presenters: Raul Gallegos and Chris Park. To register, call (260) 489-3671. 2:00 - 7:00 pm—KRAFTERS KORNER Richard A Room, Level 5 Meet some talented Federation crafters and purchase their beautiful hand-made items for sale. Joyce Kane, Krafters Division President 3:00 - 4:30 pm—MAKING THE MOST OF YOUR JERNIGAN INSTITUTE (Workshop One; Workshop Two is on Saturday at 4:00 pm) Brulé A Room, Level 5 Attendees will learn the latest information about the Institute and about how they can utilize its programs to build the organization at the local level. We expect the discussion to spark new, imaginative ideas for future programs. Led by Mark Riccobono, Jernigan Institute Executive Director. 3:00 - 4:45 pm— knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print—it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 3:00 - 5:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOC. OF BLIND ENTREPRENEURS Brulé B Room, Level 5 James R. Bonerbo, President FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 3:30 - 4:50 pm—NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS Access for Everyone Skyline A Room, Courtyard Marriott Learn how blind and low-vision children of all abilities can access education and information in school and in the world. Instructor: Dr. Denise Robinson Braille Music for Dummies Skyline B Room, Courtyard Marriott Just enough to stay one step ahead of the kids. Instructors: Jennifer Dunnam and Kyle Conley Spaghetti, Meatballs, and Birthday Parties Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Manners, cafeterias, games, playgrounds, and friends (Pre-K and Elementary) Instructors: Debbi Head and Emily Gibbs Bring Me to the Mall—Text Me Later Renoir Room, Level 4 Manners, food courts, and friends (middle and high school) Instructors: Eric Guillory and Deja Powell 5:00 - 6:30 pm—PARENTS AND REHABILITATION PROFESSIONALS JOINT CONFERENCE RECEPTION Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 6:00 - 10:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GUIDE DOG USERS BUSINESS MEETING Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 6:00 pm­Registration; 7:00 pm­Meeting begins Topics: airline emergency procedures and evacuation; creating and growing state associations of guide dog users; and protecting the rights of guide dog users through advocacy and education. Marion Gwizdala, President FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 6:30 - 10:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND OFFICE PROFESSIONALS Renoir Room, Level 4 6:30 pm­Registration; 7:00 pm­Meeting begins Featuring a hands-on Braille proofreading workshop. Guest speaker is from Seedlings Braille Books for Children. Lisa Hall, President 7:30 - 10:00 pm—NOPBC FAMILY HOSPITALITY NIGHT Cascade D Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Drop in, relax, and chat in an informal atmosphere. 8:00 - 10:00 pm—NFB LIONS GROUP Room 6405, 64th floor NFB members who are also Lions are urged to meet to share ideas and experiences. Co-Chairpersons: Ramona Walhof and Milton Ota 8:00 - 10:00 pm—ROOKIE ROUNDUP RECEPTION—GAINING INSIGHT FOR FIRST-TIMERS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 First-time conventioneers, don't miss this event! President Maurer and former rookies will be on hand to welcome you and answer questions. Coordinator: Pam Allen, Director of the Louisiana Center for the Blind and President of the NFB of Louisiana 8:00 pm - midnight—KARAOKE NIGHT?? Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 Admission: $5.00. You'll have a great time. Braille song lists available. Hosted by BLIND, Incorporated 9:00 - 10:00 pm—NFB AMBASSADORS COMMITTEE MEETING Greco Room, Level 4 Angela Wolf, Chairperson SATURDAY, JULY 4, 2009 9:00 am - 5:00 pm—REGISTRATION ($20); BANQUET TICKET SALES ($40); Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 9:00 am 5:00 pm—EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND LITERATURE—Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 1:00 - 3:00 pm—WHAT’S NEW WITH NFB-NEWSLINE® Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 Presentational seminar about the world’s largest audible newspaper service for the blind and visually impaired. Topics cover newest online initiatives and improvements to the service. 1:00 - 5:00 pm—EXPLORING THE LATEST INNOVATIONS IN MOBILE REFRESHABLE BRAILLE AND TACTILE GRAPHICS TECHNOLOGIES Richard A Room, Level 5 1:00-2:00—ALVA Braille Controller: more than just a Braille display. 2:00-3:00—Talking Tactile Tablet: exploring tactile images, interactive games. 3:00-4:00—Reading On the Go!: read books, texts, etc. using a cell phone. 4:00-5:00—Mobile Geo: a new GPS solution for accessible cell phones. Larry Lewis, President, Flying Blind, Inc. 1:00 - 5:00 pm—NATIONAL CERTIFICATION IN LITERARY BRAILLE (NCLB) OFFICIAL EXAMINATION—SECTIONS ONE AND TWO Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Participants must have preregistered. Exam Sections Three and Four are on Sunday, July 5 (see agenda listing). Sponsored by the National Blindness Professional Certification Board 1:30 pm—RESOLUTIONS COMMITTEE Renaissance Cartier Ballroom, Level 4 Sharon Maneki, Chairperson 1:30 - 2:45 pm— knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print—it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! SATURDAY, JULY 4, Continued 2:00 - 5:00 pm—NOPBC SESSIONS FOR CHILDREN AND YOUTH Braille Beats Cascade D Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Kids get into Braille music in a fun way. Instructor: Kyle Conley 2:00 ­ 3:30 pm—For Kindergarten through Grade 5 3:30 ­ 5:00 pm—For Grades 6 through 12 You Want to Move It, Move It Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Judo expert Lisamaria Martinez and friends get you moving! 2:00 ­ 3:30 pm—For Grades 6 through 12 3:30 ­ 5:00 pm—For Kindergarten through Grade 5 2:30 - 4:30 pm—TRAVEL AND TOURISM DIVISION Raphael Room, Level 4 Don Gillmore, President 3:00 - 4:45 pm—knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print—it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 3:30 - 10:00 pm—NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATIONS Room 6401, 64th floor 3:30-6:00 pm and 8:30-10:00 pm—Learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 6:30-8:00 pm—Gathering for professionals in the field of work with the blind for an evening of presentations and possibilities. 4:00 - 5:30 pm—MAKING THE MOST OF YOUR JERNIGAN INSTITUTE Duluth B Room, Level 5 Attendees will learn the latest information about the Institute and about how they can utilize its programs to build the organization at the local level. We expect the discussion to spark new, imaginative ideas for future programs. Led by Mark Riccobono, Jernigan Institute Executive Director. SATURDAY, JULY 4, Continued 4:00 - 6:00 pm—SPANISH SEMINAR Brulé B Room, Level 5 Conducted entirely in Spanish. Learn about the Federation, hear from some of our leaders, and network with other Hispanic members. Facilitators: Rosy Carranza and A.Z. Martinez 4:30 - 5:30 pm—WAL-MART AND NFB JERNIGAN INSTITUTE: FUTURE INNOVATIONS FORUM Brulé A Room, Level 5 Join a town hall meeting on Equal Access at the Pharmacy Counter. Discuss emerging issues, best practices, and preferences as a blind or low-vision consumer. Influence future work through the NFB Jernigan Institute to encourage innovative Pharmacy practices and take the opportunity for the world's largest retailer to hear your voice. 4:30 - 6:00 pm—TWELFTH ANNUAL MOCK TRIAL—National Association of Blind Lawyers; Scott LaBarre, President Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 Admission: $5.00. Federation lawyers are pitted against each other reenacting an old Federation case with the audience serving as the jury. 6:00 - 7:30 pm—NEWSLETTER PUBLICATIONS COMMITTEE DaVinci Room, Level 4 Covering state newsletters, formatting a good publication, and publishing in accessible formats. Norma Crosby, Chairperson 6:00 - 10:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND STUDENTS Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 6:00 pm­Registration ($5.00) & Meet-and-Greet; 7:00 pm­Meeting Happy 42nd birthday to NABS! Remember to bring your contact information on a Brailled index card for registration. Terri Rupp, President 6:45 - 7:45 pm—IMAGINATION FUND TRAINING MEETING Greco Room, Level 4 Kevan Worley, Facilitator SATURDAY, JULY 4, Continued 7:00 - 8:30 pm—NFB AFFILIATE PRESIDENTS AND TREASURERS SEMINAR Nicolet A Room, Level 5 Affiliate presidents and treasurers are asked to attend this seminar about state financial programs, financial data, and planning the end of 2009 and beginning of 2010. Topics include: 990s, state charitable registrations, end-of-year preparations, and other issues. Facilitators: Bridgid Burke and Charlie Brown 7:00 - 8:30 pm—PUBLIC EMPLOYEES DIVISION Richard A Room, Level 5 Ivan Weich, President 7:00 - 9:00 pm—CLASSICS, ANTIQUES, AND RODS (CARS) DIVISION Renoir Room, Level 4 Joseph B. Naulty, President 7:00 - 9:00 pm—“KEYS TO INDEPENDENCE,” NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND PIANO TECHNICIANS SEMINAR Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 Learn how to have a career in piano tuning and repair; it can enhance your independence. Don Mitchell, President 7:30 - 9:30 pm—MEMBERSHIP COMMITTEE Duluth B Room, Level 5 The more we educate, the more we grow. Ron Gardner, Chairperson 7:30 - 10:00 pm—BLIND PARENTS GROUP Brulé B Room, Level 5 Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson 8:00 - 9:00 pm—WHITE CANE AND AFFILIATE FINANCE COMMITTEE Raphael Room, Level 4 Alpidio Rolón, Chairperson 8:00 - 9:30 pm—WEBMASTERS WORKSHOP Greco Room, Level 4 A meeting for all NFB affiliate and division Webmasters. Gary Wunder, Chairperson, Webmasters Group SATURDAY, JULY 4, Continued 8:00 - 10:00 pm—COMMITTEE ON LIBRARY SERVICES Duluth A Room, Level 5 David Hyde, Chairperson 9:00 - 10:00 pm—SPANISH TRANSLATION COMMITTEE Raphael Room, Level 4 Norman Gardner, Chairperson SUNDAY, JULY 5, 2009 7:15 - 8:15 am—ROMAN CATHOLIC MASS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 Fr. Gregory Paul, C.P., Celebrant 8:00 am - 10:00 pm—NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATIONS Room 6401, 64th floor 8:00-11:00 am, 1:30-5:30 pm, and 8:30-10:00 pm—Learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 6:00-7:00 pm—Promotion, Evaluation, and Advancement of Technology Committee gathering. Learn about NFB-NEWSLINE’s revolutionary new online initiatives. 8:30 am - 5:00 pm—REGISTRATION ($20); BANQUET TICKET SALES ($40); Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 8:30 am 5:00 pm— EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND LITERATURE—Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 9:00 11:30 am—NFB BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING (Open to all) Renaissance Ballroom, Level 4 11:45 am - 12:45 pm—THE DIVISION FOR ME—NFB YOUTH TRACK Greco Room, Level 4 A meet-and-greet with NFB division representatives. Coordinator: Mary Jo Thorpe. Co-sponsored by NOPBC and NFB Jernigan Institute. 11:45 am - 1:15 pm—CHURCH SERVICES FOR THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 12:00 noon - 2:00 pm—ROOKIE ROUNDUP GATHERING Affiliate Action Suite 6801 Attention rookies! Participate in a gathering of fun for first-time conventioneers. This is a great opportunity to meet new people and have your convention questions answered by experienced Federationists. SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 12:30 - 4:00 pm—DIABETES ACTION NETWORK FOR THE BLIND Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 12:30 pm ­ Registration; 1:00 pm ­ Meeting begins Keynote speaker is Ann S. Williams, PhD, RN, CDE, a diabetes educator with much experience with diabetic issues. Mike Freeman, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS Richard A Room, Level 5 12:30 pm ­ Registration; 1:00 pm ­ Meeting begins Examine laws affecting blind people and others with disabilities; address ongoing struggles to gain equal access to Web sites, employment, legal texts and exams. Scott LaBarre, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm—NFB IN COMPUTER SCIENCE LaSalle B Room, Level 5 12:30 pm ­ Registration; 1:00 pm ­ Meeting begins Discuss recent releases, concerns of information technology professionals, and other topics. Curtis Chong, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm—“OVERCOMING OBSTACLES THROUGH COURAGE AND DETERMINATION”—National Association of the Blind in Communities of Faith Cadillac A Room, Level 5 12:30 pm ­ Registration; 1:00 pm ­ Meeting begins; Tom Anderson, President 12:30 5:00 pm—REVOLUTIONIZING RANDOLPH-SHEPPARD NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND MERCHANTS MEETING Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 12:30 pm ­ Registration; 1:30 pm ­ Meeting begins Those involved in the Randolph-Sheppard program or who operate a similar business discuss protection of the priority and the creation of new business opportunities and outreach. Kevan Worley, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm—SPORTS AND RECREATION DIVISION Skyline A Room, Courtyard Marriott 12:30 pm ­ Registration; 1:00 pm ­ Meeting begins Wear your sweats and come ready for hands-on presentations in yoga and much more! Lisamaria Martinez, President SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 12:45 - 4:30 pm—MIDDLE SCHOOL BIG ADVENTURE! (Ages 9-14) Meet (and return) at back of Cascade A and B Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott Hang out as a group and have fun exploring with blind mentors Michael Freholm and Garrick Scott. 1:00 - 3:00 pm—BLIND PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISTS GROUP Duluth A Room, Level 5 Elizabeth Campbell, Chairperson 1:00 3:00 pm—CULTURAL EXCHANGE AND INTERNATIONAL PROGRAM COMMITTEE Duluth B Room, Level 5 Diane McGeorge, Chairperson 1:00 3:00 pm—“GRABBING HEADLINES FOR YOUR AFFILIATE” SEMINAR—PUBLIC RELATIONS COMMITTEE Nicolet B Room, Level 5 Topics: locating press contacts; drafting press releases; developing relationships with reporters and editors; working effectively with the media. Barbara Pierce, Chairperson; Seminar conducted by Chris Danielsen and Jessica Freeh, NFB Public Relations 1:00 - 3:00 pm—NOPBC DIVISION ANNUAL MEETING: MAKING THEIR FUTURE DREAMS COME TRUE Cascade A and B Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott Carol Castellano, President 1:00 - 4:00 pm—PERFORMING ARTS DIVISION DaVinci Room, Level 4 Unveiling the “Music of the Movement” album. Hear from an artist recruiter about a media company paving the way for blind audio professionals. Dennis Holston, President 1:00 - 4:00 pm—WRITERS DIVISION BUSINESS MEETING Renoir Room, Level 4 Robert Leslie Newman, President SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 1:00 - 4:30 pm—NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF BLIND EDUCATORS Brulé B Room, Level 5 1:00 pm ­ Registration; 1:30 pm ­ Meeting begins Blind teachers discuss techniques they use in their classrooms; meeting in groups specific to grade level and content areas of interest to create a network of mentors. Sheila Koenig, President 1:00 - 5:00 pm—AUTO SHOW (CLASSICS, ANTIQUES, AND SPECIAL INTEREST VEHICLES) Location to be announced. Joe Naulty, CARS Division President 1:00 - 5:00 pm—NATIONAL CERTIFICATION IN LITERARY BRAILLE (NCLB) OFFICIAL EXAMINATION—SECTIONS THREE AND FOUR Cascade C and D Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott Participants must have preregistered. Sponsored by the National Blindness Professional Certification Board 1:00 - 5:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND REHABILITATION PROFESSIONALS Brulé A Room, Level 5 1:00 pm ­ Registration; 2:00 pm ­ Meeting begins Network, share mutual interests, find placement strategies, and examine and discuss concerns and current issues. Melody Lindsey, President 1:00 - 5:00 pm—“SENIORS IN CHARGE” NFB SENIORS DIVISION MEETING & (SOMEWHAT) SILENT AUCTION Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 Find out ways to spread our message of hope to newly blind seniors. We’re also having our popular not-so-silent auction. Judy Sanders, President 1:00 - 6:00 pm—HUMAN SERVICES DIVISION SEMINAR AND BUSINESS MEETING Nicolet A Room, Level 5 1:00 pm ­ Registration; 2:00 pm ­ Meeting begins; 5:00 pm ­ Networking Psychologists, social workers, counselors, and music or dance therapists meeting to network and ask questions. Melissa Riccobono, President SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 1:30 - 4:45 pm—knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Session One: 1:30 - 2:45 pm; Session Two: 3:00 - 4:45 pm Use your cell phone to read print—it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 3:00 - 4:30 pm—NOPBC PARENT POWER WORKSHOP Cascade A and B Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott Parent leaders from around the country share their experiences. Moderator: Barbara Mathews 3:15 - 4:45 pm—MEET THE BLIND MONTH ACTIVITIES AND OTHER SPECIAL EVENTS SEMINAR: PLANS AND ACTION EQUAL SUCCESS Duluth B Room, Level 5 October is “Meet the Blind Month.” Find out about events that are entertaining and fun and encouraging chapters to try new types of fundraising and meet-and-greet events. Jerry Lazarus, NFB Jernigan Institute 5:00 - 6:30 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS RECEPTION Richard B Room, Level 5 For NABL members and seminar participants to promote networking and fellowship within our membership. Hors d'oeuvres and cash bar available. Scott LaBarre, President 5:00 - 7:00 pm—BRAILLE BOOK FLEA MARKET Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Happy Birthday, Louis Braille! Browse tables of new and used Braille and print/Braille books. UPS volunteers will ship the books to your home free of charge. Donations requested to support the Braille Readers are Leaders program. Cake and snacks for browsers. Cosponsored by NOPBC and NAPUB. Coordinator: Peggy Chong 5:00 - 8:00 pm—JUDO WORKSHOP; SPORTS & REC DIVISION Skyline B Room, Courtyard Marriott Join USA Judo and paralympian bronze medal winner Greg DeWall to learn about judo from people involved in the sport. See you on the mat! Lisamaria Martinez, President SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 5:30 - 7:00 pm—KURZWEIL 1000 USERS’ MEETING Richard A Room, Level 5 Join the Kurzweil 1000 Users’ Contingent! Meet with Steve Baum, Vice President of Engineering, and share some Kurzweil 1000 experiences. Kurzweil 1000 is our state-of-the-art, text-to-speech and life navigation software for blind and visually impaired readers. 5:30 - 7:30 pm—AGRICULTURE AND EQUESTRIAN DIVISION Duluth A Room, Level 5 Fred Chambers, President 6:00 - 10:00 pm—BACK TO BASICS: FOUNDATIONS IN MEMBERSHIP AND CHAPTER DEVELOPMENT Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 Topics: running a purposeful chapter meeting, community projects and chapter fundraising, and weaving Federation philosophy into local meetings. NFB Affiliate Action Team 6:00 - 10:00 pm—DEAF BLIND DIVISION Nicolet B Room, Level 5 6:00 pm ­ Registration; 7:00 pm ­ Meeting begins Burnell Brown, President 6:00 - 10:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GUIDE DOG USERS SEMINAR 6:00 pm ­ Registration; 7:00 pm ­ Meeting begins Brulé A Room, Level 5 Topics: Islam, the Koran, and guide dogs; Training Centers and Guide Dogs: a panel discussion; and massage for dogs. You can also “test drive” a guide dog! Marion Gwizdala, President 6:30 - 9:00 pm—ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGY TRAINERS DIVISION Renoir Room, Level 4 6:30 pm ­ Registration; 7:00 pm ­ Meeting begins Note-taking devices to recommend to clients and what to do about students who are seemingly “unteachable.” Michael Barber, President SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 6:30 - 9:30 pm—SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING DIVISION Cascade A and B Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott 6:30 pm ­ Registration; 7:00 pm ­ Meeting begins John Miller, President 7:00 - 8:30 pm—LIVING HISTORY GROUP Nicolet A Room, Level 5 Dedicated to recording, preserving, and appreciating Federation history. Michael Freholm, Chairperson 7:00 - 8:30 pm—“SOMETIMES TRUTH REPELS” a play by Jerry Whittle (Admission: $5.00; Second Performance is at 9:00 pm) Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 A play about the teaching career of Louis Braille performed by the Louisiana Center for the Blind Players. Proceeds go to the Louisiana Center for the Blind’s summer training program for blind children. 7:00 - 9:00 pm—COMMITTEE TO EMPOWER UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS LaSalle B Room, Level 5 Ron Brown, Chairperson 7:00 - 9:00 pm—FEDERATION RE-GENERATION Duluth B Room, Level 5 Do you need to rejuvenate and kick-start your affiliate with fresh ideas? Re-generate! Get a new generation involved. Join the NFB Jernigan Institute Education Team to learn more about program possibilities. 7:00 - 9:00 pm—NFB KRAFTERS DIVISION BUSINESS MEETING Cadillac A Room, Level 5 Unveiling new craft initiatives, including plans for a new Web site and information on our Monday night nationwide chats. Joyce Kane, President 7:00 - 9:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION TO PROMOTE THE USE OF BRAILLE (NAPUB) SEMINAR Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 Celebrating Louis Braille’s 200th birthday! Receive information about the commemorative Louis Braille silver dollar, the NFB Share Braille Web site project, and more. Nadine Jacobson, President SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 7:00 - 9:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND VETERANS LaSalle A Room, Level 5 Guest speakers; reviewing access technology; unveiling the 2009 NABV pin. Pay dues and receive an NABV-3 shirt. Dwight Sayer, President 7:00 - 10:00 pm—MARCH FOR INDEPENDENCE MARCHER DROP-IN BRIEFINGS (THREE SEPARATE SESSIONS) Brulé B Room, Level 5 Session One: 7:00-8:00 pm; Session Two 8:00-9:00 pm; Session Three 9:00-10:00 pm. Drop in anytime and help us lead the 2009 March for Independence. Facilitator: Kevan Worley 7:30 - 9:00 pm—DADS’ NIGHT OUT Contact Brad Weatherd for location All dads, sighted and blind, are welcome. Sponsored by the NOPBC 7:30 - 9:00 pm—NFB IN JUDAISM MEETING Room 6405, 64th Floor David Stayer, Chairperson 7:30 - 10:00 pm—COMMITTEE FOR THE PROMOTION, EVALUATION, AND ADVANCEMENT OF TECHNOLOGY; Gary Wunder, Chairperson Greco Room, Level 4 8:00 - 9:30 pm—MAKING BRAILLE BOOKS FOR CHILDREN Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Make Braille books at home that will inspire your child to read and explore. Sponsored by NOPBC. Instructors: Carlton Walker and Krystal Guillory 9:00 - 10:30 pm—“SOMETIMES TRUTH REPELS,” a play by Jerry Whittle (Second Performance) Admission: $5.00 Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 A play about the teaching career of Louis Braille performed by the Louisiana Center for the Blind Players. Proceeds go to the Louisiana Center for the Blind’s summer training program for blind children. 9:30 - 10:30 pm—FRIENDS OF RECOVERY MEETING Raphael Room, Level 4 Coordinator: Gary Ray MONDAY, JULY 6, 2009 6:45 am—MOTOR CITY MARCH FOR INDEPENDENCE RALLY! Please gather in the Wintergarden on Level A of the Detroit Marriott for a 7:00 am start. NOTE: Because of the March for Independence, there are no registration, devotions, Independence Market and Literature, or Exhibit Hall activities on Monday morning. OPENING GENERAL SESSION 9:30 am INVOCATION 9:35 am WELCOMING CEREMONIES 9:55 am CELEBRATION OF FREEDOM: VETERANS RECOGNIZED Dwight Sayer, President, National Association of Blind Veterans, National Federation of the Blind; Winter Gardens, Florida 10:05 am ROLL CALL OF STATES AND APPOINTMENT OF NOMINATING COMMITTEE 11:45 am REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 12:00 pm ADJOURN 12:00 noon 12:30 pm and 1:30 - 2:00 pm—REGISTRATION ($20); FINAL BANQUET TICKET SALES ($40)—Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 12:00 noon 1:45 pm—EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND LITERATURE—Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 MONDAY, JULY 6, Continued 12:15 - 2:00 pm—LOUISIANA CENTER FOR THE BLIND ALUMNI LUNCHEON Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Contact: Pam Allen, Director, Louisiana Center for the Blind GENERAL SESSION 2:00 pm CALL TO ORDER 2:05 pm PRESIDENTIAL REPORT, Marc Maurer 3:00 pm POLICIES TO ENHANCE EMPLOYMENT, INCLUSION, SAFETY, AND PRODUCTIVITY The Honorable John D. Dingell, Member of Congress, 15th Congressional District; Michigan 3:20 pm PROMOTING PEDESTRIAN SAFETY: A PRIORITY FOR MANUFACTURERS The Honorable Dave McCurdy, President and CEO, Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers; McLean, Virginia 3:40 pm THE JOURNEY OF BRAILLE: FROM THE HANDS OF THE CREATOR TO EARTH ORBIT 4:00 pm THE VALUE OF A COIN, OF A COMMUNICATION SYSTEM, AND OF A CLASS OF HUMAN BEINGS Fredric K. Schroeder, Ph.D., Research Professor, San Diego State University; Vienna, Virginia 4:25 pm PROVIDING THE FUNDAMENTAL TOOLS: BRAILLE BOOKS Brian A. McDonald, President, National Braille Press; Boston, Massachusetts 4:40 pm REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 5:00 pm ADJOURN MONDAY, JULY 6, Continued 5:30 - 6:30 pm—NOMINATING COMMITTEE; Sharon Maneki, Chairperson Cadillac A Room, Level 5 6:00 - 8:00 pm—AFB INTRODUCES ACCESSIBLE WALKING DIRECTIONS AND NEW CareerConnect FEATURES Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 The American Foundation for the Blind’s reception introduces Mapquest Accessible Walking Directions and new CareerConnect offerings. Be the first to try a free online directions service. Join up as a CareerConnect leader or mentor. We look forward to reconnecting with old friends. 6:00 - 9:00 pm—INDOOR ROWING; SPORTS & REC DIVISION Skyline A and B Rooms, Courtyard Marriott Row your way into fitness and maintain a healthy lifestyle using an accessible rowing machine. Prizes plus plenty of fun! Lisamaria Martinez, President 6:30 - 8:00 pm—GUITAR SEMINAR LaSalle B Room, Level 5 Learn about the guitar; get advice from a professional musician, Cameron Strife; $5 donation. Presented by the NFB Performing Arts Division 6:30 - 10:00 pm—NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATION Room 6401, 64th floor Drop by and learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 7:00 - 8:30 pm—NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS, REHAB PROFESSIONALS, AND INTERESTED OTHERS: IEPs: Evals, Goals, Strategies, the Law Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructor: Carlton Walker The Science of Getting in on Science Cascade B Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Cary Supalo, Marilyn Winograd, Dr. Lillian Rankel Mental Mapping: Using Environmental Sounds and Clues Cascade C Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructor: Daniel Kish MONDAY, JULY 6, Continued 7:00 - 8:30 pm—BOOKSHARE AT NFB MEMBER PARTY LaSalle A Room, Level 5 Enjoy snacks and refreshments while meeting the Bookshare staff. This is your opportunity to talk with us and share your ideas; we’re here to listen. Plan to have fun with contests, drawings, and interacting with your fellow members. We look forward to seeing you. 7:00 - 9:00 pm—BRAILLE READERS ARE LEADERS: THE INITIATIVE FOR CHANGE Duluth B Room, Level 5 One representative from each affiliate should attend this session. Help to ensure Braille literacy for all by learning about the exciting developments and discuss strategies for promoting Louis Braille bicentennial coins. 7:00 - 9:00 pm—MOVING LEGISLATION ON THE STATE AND NATIONAL LEVEL SEMINAR Cadillac B Room, Level 5 Each affiliate should send one representative. Learn the best methods of increasing support for our legislative priorities. Changing lives through laws is our business. Led by Jesse Hartle, NFB Strategic Initiatives Staff 7:00 - 10:00 pm—A SPECIAL EVENING FOR SPONSOR-LEVEL EXHIBITORS Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 The exhibit hall reopens for an evening dedicated solely to sponsor-level exhibitors. Come and bring a guest to say “thank you” to our sponsors and to enjoy their interesting offers and demonstrations. Our convention sponsors are—Platinum: HumanWare and UPS; Gold: Deque Systems, Inc., Freedom Scientific, and Oracle; Silver: En-Vision America, Intel®, and Wal-Mart; Bronze: Adobe, Council of U.S. Dog Guide Schools (CUSDGS), IBM, Independent Living Aids (ILA), and Microsoft; Exhibit Hall: GW Micro, J&B Medical Supply, National Industries for the Blind, ReadHowYouWant, and Roche Diagnostics. 7:00 - 10:00 pm—NOPBC CHILDREN’S ACTIVITY (ages 5-13) A UNIVERSALLY FUN TIME Cascade D Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Drop in and explore the universe with Noreen Grice; volunteers led by Michael Freholm MONDAY, JULY 6, Continued 7:00 - midnight—NFB OF MICHIGAN HOSPITALITY DANCE Ambassador Ballroom, Level 3 ? “There may be trouble ahead but while there’s moonlight and music and love and romance let’s face the music and dance!”? Join our host affiliate to enjoy dancing or simply listening to some really good music. Entertainment provided by “Nine,” a nine-piece band performing Motown, soul, classic rock, pop, and old standards. 7:30 - 8:30 pm—NFB YOUTH TRACK MEETINGS ME AND THE GOSSIP GIRLS (ages 14-18) Greco Room, Level 4 Girls—bring your questions and thoughts about makeup, dating, or just how to get more involved in your school. ME AND THE GUYS (ages 14-18) Renoir Room, Level 4 Guys—talk about cars, dating, school, or how to nail that perfect job to make a little extra money. 8:00 - 10:00 pm—COMMITTEE ON AUTOMOBILE AND PEDESTRIAN SAFETY (CAPS); Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson Nicolet A Room, Level 5 8:30 - 10:00 pm—NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS, REHAB PROFESSIONALS, AND INTERESTED OTHERS Pro to Pro to Parent to Para—Learn How Your Child’s “Team” Can Work Together Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Dr. Denise Robinson and Gail Wagner Taking the Headaches Out of Adapting in Math Cascade B Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Eric and Krystal Guillory Summer Jobs, Vocational Rehabilitation, and Volunteering Cascade C Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructor: Jan Bailey TUESDAY, JULY 7, 2009 7:30 - 8:15 am—DEVOTIONS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 8:00 8:30 am—REGISTRATION ($20) Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 GENERAL SESSION 9:00 am INVOCATION 9:05 am FINANCIAL REPORT 10:00 am ELECTIONS 10:30 am EXPANDING ACCESS TO DIGITAL INFORMATION FOR THE BLIND Gilles Pepin, Chief Executive Officer, HumanWare; Drummondville, Canada 10:50 am A BLIND ATHLETE IN THE PARALYMPICS Tyler Merren, 2008 U.S. Paralympic Team Member, Men’s Goalball; Kalamazoo, Michigan 11:05 am DEVELOPMENTS AT THE FIRST EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION FOR THE BLIND IN THE UNITED STATES, PERKINS Steven M. Rothstein, President, Perkins School for the Blind; Watertown, Massachusetts 11:25 am THE FEDERATION IN THE WORLD FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE WORLD BLIND UNION Maryanne Diamond, President, World Blind Union; Melbourne, Australia 11:40 am REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 12:00 pm ADJOURN TUESDAY, JULY 7, Continued 12:00 noon 12:30 pm and 1:30 - 2:00 pm—REGISTRATION ($20) Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 12:00 noon 1:45 pm—EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND LITERATURE—(Final Time Period for Independence Market and Literature) Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 GENERAL SESSION 2:00 pm CALL TO ORDER 2:05 pm STRATEGIC INITIATIVES REPORT John Paré, Executive Director for Strategic Initiatives, National Federation of the Blind; Baltimore, Maryland 2:35 pm REPORTS, RESOLUTIONS, AND OTHER BUSINESS 5:00 pm ADJOURN 6:00 - 10:00 pm—IT WASN'T ME, A MURDER MYSTERY AT THE CLUB Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 Play along as guests at a dance club while private investigators try to solve a murder. Early arrivers are assigned a character role to play for the evening. Latecomers won't be able to play along but are welcome to watch the game and enjoy the experience. Presented by NFB Youth Track. 6:30 - 9:00 pm—COLORADO CENTER FOR THE BLIND OPEN HOUSE Brulé A and B Rooms, Level 5 Discover how good training can change your life. Julie Deden, Director 6:30 - 9:30 pm—NOPBC CHILDREN’S ACTIVITY (Ages 5-14) WE WILL NOT LET CONVENTION ACQUAINTANCES BE FORGOT Cascade C Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Led by Michael Freholm TUESDAY, JULY 7, Continued 6:30 - 10:00 pm—NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATION Room 6401, 64th floor Stop by and learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 7:00 - 8:15 pm—knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print—it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 7:00 - 8:30 pm—BLIND MUSICIANS GROUP BUSINESS MEETING Duluth B Room, Level 5 Linda Mentink, Chairperson 7:00 - 8:30 pm—NINTH ANNUAL RANDOLPH-SHEPPARD RECEPTION HOSTED BY THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND MERCHANTS Richard B Room, Level 5 Socialize, network, and learn more about Randolph-Sheppard and other business opportunities we can create through our work in the NFB. Kevan Worley, President 7:00 - 9:00 pm—COUNCIL OF U.S. DOG GUIDE SCHOOLS (CUSDGS) RECEPTION Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Learn how a dog guide can impact your life from featured speaker Michael Hingson, a World Trade Center survivor. Meet representatives from participating schools and learn about their programs. You can even schedule a “Juno” walk for later in the week. 7:00 9:00 pm—“SOCIAL SECURITY AND SUPPLEMENTAL SECURITY INCOME: WHAT APPLICANTS, ADVOCATES, AND RECIPIENTS SHOULD KNOW” SEMINAR Cadillac B Room, Level 5 Information on Social Security and SSI benefits, including the income subsidy program for those receiving the Medicare prescription drug benefit. Presenter: Dan Frye, Attorney and Associate Editor of the Braille Monitor TUESDAY, JULY 7, Continued 7:00 10:00 pm—EXHIBITS ONLY (Independence Market and Literature Closed)—Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 7:00 - 11:00 pm—ANNUAL SHOWCASE OF TALENT—Admission $5.00 Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 Register early by contacting Beth Allred at the convention. Proceeds benefit the scholarship program in memory of Mary Ann Parks. Sponsored by the Performing Arts Division; Dennis Holston, President 7:00 - 11:00 pm—HUMANWARE LOW VISION PRODUCTS SEMINAR Nicolet B Room, Level 5 Come and learn about HumanWare’s exciting low vision products in a hands-on, interactive seminar: myReader 2 video magnifier; SmartView desktop units; portable handheld devices; and a distance viewing system. Presenter: Ed Wikdall 8:00 - 10:00 pm—COMMITTEE ON RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT LaSalle A Room, Level 5 If you have an interest in new technologies and believe that spectacular accomplishments are possible when blind people themselves are involved—then join our meeting. Curtis Chong, Chairperson 8:00 - 11:30 pm—MONTE CARLO NIGHT Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 Try your luck at any of the usual card games found on a casino floor. Prizes go to the top three winners holding the most chips at the end of the evening. Sponsored by the National Association of Blind Students 8:30 - 9:45 pm—knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print—it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 9:30 - 10:30 pm—FRIENDS OF RECOVERY MEETING Raphael Room, Level 4 Coordinator: Gary Ray WEDNESDAY, JULY 8, 2009 8:00 - 8:45 am—DEVOTIONS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 8:30 9:00 am—REGISTRATION ($20)—Final opportunity to register. Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 GENERAL SESSION 9:00 am INVOCATION 9:05 am THE NEAR-PERFECT AUDIO BOOK: HOW WE DO IT Frank Kurt Cylke, Director, National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Library of Congress; Washington, D.C. Mary Beth Wise, Quality Assurance Specialist, National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Library of Congress; Washington, D.C. 9:25 am QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION 9:30 am THE DEMAND, THE CRISIS, THE SOLUTION IN EDUCATION FOR THE BLIND Edward Bell, Ph.D., Director, Professional Development and Research Institute on Blindness, Louisiana Tech University; Ruston, Louisiana 9:45 am THE THEORY AND THE PRACTICE: EDUCATION FOR THE BLIND IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL Denise M. Robinson, Ph.D., Teacher and Coordinator of Programming for Blind and Visually Impaired Students; Yakima, Washington 10:00 am WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO MAKE THAT CHILD BLIND? Carol Castellano, President, National Organization of Parents of Blind Children, National Federation of the Blind; Madison, New Jersey WEDNESDAY, JULY 8, Continued 10:20 am TEACHING AN ESSENTIAL SKILL: BRAILLE Jerry Whittle, Teacher-Counselor, Louisiana Center for the Blind; Ruston, Louisiana April Davis, Coordinator of Summer Programs for Blind Children, Louisiana Center for the Blind; Ruston, Louisiana James Mays, Industrial Arts Teacher, Louisiana Center for the Blind; Ruston, Louisiana Deja Powell, Cane Travel Instructor, Utah Division of Services for the Blind and Visually Impaired; Salt Lake City, Utah Anil Lewis, President, National Federation of the Blind of Georgia; Atlanta, Georgia Terri Rupp, President, National Federation of the Blind of Nevada; Las Vegas, Nevada 10:50 am FROM THE CENTER OF HISTORY: FIVE YEARS INTO THE FUTURE OF THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND JERNIGAN INSTITUTE Mark Riccobono, Executive Director, National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute; Baltimore, Maryland 11:10 am FRONTIER CAREERS FOR THE BLIND INCLUDE ENGINEERING Leigh R. Abts, Ph.D., Research Associate Professor of Engineering and Education, University of Maryland; College Park, Maryland 11:25 am NFB NEWSLINE: FROM PHONE TO COMPUTER TO PODCAST TO POCKET Scott White, Director of Sponsored Technology, National Federation of the Blind; Baltimore, Maryland 11:40 am REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 12:00 pm ADJOURN WEDNESDAY, JULY 8, Continued 12:00 noon - 1:45 pm—HAM RADIO GROUP BUSINESS MEETING Raphael Room, Level 4 We will consider the amendment of the division constitution that we adopted last year. D. Curtis Willoughby (KA0VBA), Chairperson 12:00 noon - 1:45 pm—NFB CAMP TOY SALE Marquette A Room, Level 5 Everything must go—30 to 70 percent off toys purchased for NFB Camp. 12:00 noon - 1:45 pm—RAFFLES AND DRAWINGS LaSalle A Room, Level 5 12:15 - 1:45 pm—EVERYTHING YOU'VE EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT THE NLS Nicolet B Room, Level 5 A question-and-answer session with Frank Kurt Cylke, Director, and staff of the National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Library of Congress. GENERAL SESSION 2:00 pm CALL TO ORDER 2:05 pm SHAPING THE STANDARD FOR THE LEGAL COMMUNITY: THE NECESSITY FOR ACCESS TO INFORMATION FOR ALL Daniel Goldstein, Esq., Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP; Baltimore, Maryland 2:25 pm NEGOTIATING ACCESSIBLE ELECTRONIC BOOKS: A MASSIVE UNDERTAKING, A SMASHING SUCCESS Jack Bernard, Esq., Chair, Counsel for Disability Concerns, and Assistant General Counsel, University of Michigan; Ann Arbor, Michigan 2:45 pm THE COMMITMENT OF MICROSOFT TO ACCESSIBLE TECHNOLOGY Rob Sinclair, Director of Accessibility, Microsoft Corporation; Redound, Washington WEDNESDAY, JULY 8, Continued 3:05 pm TRANSCENDING THE BARRIERS OF YESTERDAY, ANTICIPATING THE ROMANCE OF THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE WITH THE TECHNOLOGY OF TOMORROW Ray Kurzweil, President and Chief Executive Officer, KNFB-Reading Technology, Inc.; Wellesley Hills, Massachusetts 3:25 pm REPRESENTING THE CITY OF CHICAGO Patti Chang, Esq., Senior Corporation Counsel, City of Chicago; Chicago, Illinois 3:45 pm DR. JACOB BOLOTIN AWARD Gary Wunder, Chairperson, Dr. Jacob Bolotin Award Committee, and Secretary, National Federation of the Blind; Columbia, Missouri 4:15 pm THE RIGHT OF THE PEDESTRIAN TO BE SAFE IN THE WORLD Ronald Medford, Acting Deputy Administrator, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration; Washington, D.C. 4:30 pm REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 5:00 pm ADJOURN 7:00 pm—BANQUET Renaissance Ballroom, Level 4 INVOCATION MASTER OF CEREMONIES: Fredric K. Schroeder INTRODUCTIONS AND PRESENTATIONS BANQUET ADDRESS: Marc Maurer SCHOLARSHIP AWARDS 10:00 pm - midnight—AFTER BANQUET PARTY Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 10:00 pm—SCIENCE FICTION MEETING All persons interested in science fiction and fantasy are welcome to join in an open discussion. Please contact Ed Meskys for room location. Thank You... The National Federation of the Blind would like to give a special thank you to VBrick Systems for donating the technology and Internet services to allow full streaming of all general sessions of the convention, the meeting of the board of directors, and the annual banquet. Through this contribution, more individuals will learn about the outstanding work that comes out of the largest gathering of the blind in the world. The National Federation of the Blind acknowledges with gratitude our Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze, and Exhibit Hall Convention Sponsors below. Their messages follow. Platinum Sponsors: HumanWare UPS Gold Sponsors: Deque Systems, Inc. Freedom Scientific Oracle Silver Sponsors: En-Vision America Intel® Wal-Mart Bronze Sponsors: Adobe Council of U.S. Dog Guide Schools (CUSDGS) IBM Independent Living Aids (ILA) Microsoft Exhibit Hall Sponsors: GW Micro J&B Medical Supply National Industries for the Blind ReadHowYouWant Roche Diagnostics From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Sat May 30 22:44:04 2009 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 15:44:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] talking watch Message-ID: <765584.66194.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I realize this is a weird post; but, I was wondering if any of you have experienced this.    I have a talking watch that has two batteries--one controls the hands that show the time to the sighted user and the other controls the voice. Anyway, within the last two days, it fails to respond sometimes when I press the time and somehow is frozen on whatever the time was when I last checked it. Resetting the time gets it stuck again. Other than that, the voice sounds fine so I know the battery isn't dying. (In fact, the last time I replaced the batteries, I replaced them both. The clock face battery died within two years of my owning the watch and the voice battery conked out four years of owning the watch.)   So, any thoughts? Is it time to get a new watch?   Thanks.   Mike   From dandrews at visi.com Sat May 30 22:48:56 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 17:48:56 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Question In-Reply-To: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst> References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst> Message-ID: This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual text. Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then makes that image file into a PDF. You can OCR it, . At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote: >Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty >document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is >their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list, >at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4113 (20090528) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun May 31 05:45:22 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 22:45:22 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] talking watch In-Reply-To: <765584.66194.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <765584.66194.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1FE33C67D4364C27804BAAD138E2836D@spike> Idf the watch is stopping or sticking it sounds like it might need to be cleaned. You need to take it to a jeweler or watch repair shop or have a sighted person look at it as they may be able to see dirt or grime in it. While this is more common with Braille watches as a result of their being opened talking watches like any other electronic equipment can get dirt in it. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Gilmore" To: Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 3:44 PM Subject: [blindlaw] talking watch I realize this is a weird post; but, I was wondering if any of you have experienced this. I have a talking watch that has two batteries--one controls the hands that show the time to the sighted user and the other controls the voice. Anyway, within the last two days, it fails to respond sometimes when I press the time and somehow is frozen on whatever the time was when I last checked it. Resetting the time gets it stuck again. Other than that, the voice sounds fine so I know the battery isn't dying. (In fact, the last time I replaced the batteries, I replaced them both. The clock face battery died within two years of my owning the watch and the voice battery conked out four years of owning the watch.) So, any thoughts? Is it time to get a new watch? Thanks. Mike _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun May 31 14:40:16 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 10:40:16 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Question In-Reply-To: References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst> Message-ID: <19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC> How can you get a scanned document to read. This seems to be happening more and more. I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send things like newsletters. This is frustrating, don't you think? Steve-- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question > This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual > text. Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then > makes that image file into a PDF. You can OCR it, . > At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote: >>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty >>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is >>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list, >>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ >> >> >>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________ >> >>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >>http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>for blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 05/31/09 05:53:00 From k7uij at panix.com Sun May 31 18:25:50 2009 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 11:25:50 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] talking watch References: <765584.66194.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0463676AEC5942D1A18060446DC58E44@owner96190708e> I had one of those watches and it *never* worked right; the time on the hands never corresponded with the voice. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Gilmore" To: Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 3:44 PM Subject: [blindlaw] talking watch I realize this is a weird post; but, I was wondering if any of you have experienced this. I have a talking watch that has two batteries--one controls the hands that show the time to the sighted user and the other controls the voice. Anyway, within the last two days, it fails to respond sometimes when I press the time and somehow is frozen on whatever the time was when I last checked it. Resetting the time gets it stuck again. Other than that, the voice sounds fine so I know the battery isn't dying. (In fact, the last time I replaced the batteries, I replaced them both. The clock face battery died within two years of my owning the watch and the voice battery conked out four years of owning the watch.) So, any thoughts? Is it time to get a new watch? Thanks. Mike _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From womankind at earthlink.net Sun May 31 19:46:10 2009 From: womankind at earthlink.net (Stephanie Ortoleva) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 15:46:10 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] changing from WindowEyes to JAWS In-Reply-To: <0463676AEC5942D1A18060446DC58E44@owner96190708e> References: <765584.66194.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <0463676AEC5942D1A18060446DC58E44@owner96190708e> Message-ID: Does anyone have thoughts on the learning curve on changing from WindowEyes to JAWS given the fact that I tend to have a job that requires working 10 to 11 hours a day and not much time for on-line or in-person training? I am also a computer idiot. Smile. Stephanie Ortoleva From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Sun May 31 21:34:55 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 14:34:55 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Question In-Reply-To: <19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC> References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst> <19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Yes, this does happened a lot, because the machine on which the PDF scan is created is not set to create the imbedded text scan. If this happens a lot and you know the person who is sending you the PDF, then you can ask them to go into the software on the scan equipment and check the box for text scanning to be included as an imbedded part of the PDF document. It makes the file larger, but not as much an increase as I would have guessed. The alternative is to either get the Adobe Professional level software, which comes with a built-in text recognition feature, or in the case of Openbook, run it through the Freedom Import virtual scanner, which in my experience works better than Adobe's built-in scanner. Also, the Adobe built-in scanner gives no audible feedback while it is working, so with a large document, you can sit there for several minutes wondering if it is still working or has locked up. I have no idea if the KW scanning software has a similar feature, but I would guess it does, since the two products seem to stay pretty even with each other. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question How can you get a scanned document to read. This seems to be happening more and more. I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send things like newsletters. This is frustrating, don't you think? Steve-- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question > This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual > text. Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then > makes that image file into a PDF. You can OCR it, . > At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote: >>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty >>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is >>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list, >>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ >> >> >>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________ >> >>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >>http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>for blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40v isi.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley% 40insightbb.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 05/31/09 05:53:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov From LPovinelli at aol.com Fri May 1 01:16:05 2009 From: LPovinelli at aol.com (LPovinelli at aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:16:05 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] We invite you to join us at a Memorial Service Honoring the life of Paul Kay Message-ID: We invite you to join us at a Memorial Service Honoring the life of Paul Edward Kay Sunday, May 17, 2009 at three o'clock in the afternoon Temple Adas Israel 2850 Quebec Street, Northwest Washington, D.C. 20008 Elizabeth Kay Goldstein & Lawrence Povinelli RSVP by Friday, May 8, 2009 (703) 969-6476 or via email at _lpovinelli at aol.com_ (mailto:lpovinelli at aol.com) **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double click.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs) From dandrews at visi.com Tue May 5 03:05:58 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 22:05:58 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Call for Help, legal cases about blind parenting in divorce In-Reply-To: <00ad01c9cd1d$b8482010$640aa8c0@Debbie> References: <00ad01c9cd1d$b8482010$640aa8c0@Debbie> Message-ID: I am forwarding this to several lists, where it might get a good response -- including California lists, and the Blind Law list. At 08:06 PM 5/4/2009, Deborah Kent Stein wrote: >Diane Starin from the NFB of California is trying to help a blind >mother who is in a custody battle as part of a divorce case. The >woman's husband is claiming that she can't parent their child >because she is blind. Diane needs to gather information about any >previous legal cases, especially in California, where blindness has >been an issue in a custody battle. If you have been personally >involved in such a case, or if you can direct Diane to anyone who >may be of assistance, please write to her off list at >dstarin at societyfortheblind.org > >Thank you very much. These cases are terribly painful whenever they >occur, and we really need to support one another! > >Debbie From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Tue May 5 18:16:42 2009 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 11:16:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] JAWS and Internet Explorer Message-ID: <862555.47972.qm@web90305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I realize this isn't a legal post or a job post; however, I didn't know how many of the JAWS users out there were aware that Internet Explorer 8 only works with Jaws 10.0. For those of you who are still using IE 7 and an earlier version of JAWS, you are probably finding that you can not open your yahoo e-mail and read them. In fact, JAWS 10 has an upgrade that can be downloaded so that IE8 can be utilized to use gmail and yahoo e-mail (i.e., to open a message.)   If any of you out there are computer savvy, I was wondering if it was the MSAA mode of earlie JAWS versions that don't quite sync up with IE8 and allow the opening of yahoo e-mails anymore. I ask because I tried a little experiment yesterday. If you turn off JAWS and run the voice for a screen magnifier (I have no idea if it came with JAWS or Openbook--most likely JAWS), you can open a yahoo e-mail and forward it to hotmail let's say for example. Even so, you can't read the message in yahoo and thus need to turn JAWS back on and go to the other e-mail account to read it. The magnifier reader reads links but that's it. I apologize if this starting to sound a little rambling; but, I wanted to get the word out. Perhaps NFB or someone should contact yahoo and let them know the problem they have caused to those who use versions of JAWS that precede 10.0 and Internet Explorer that precede 8.0. Let's face it: upgrades are nice (and granted there are some new features in the new Jaws that are more convenient); but, why should we have to upgrade each time they upgrade?   Just food for thought.    Mike From darlene.olsen at gmail.com Tue May 5 19:51:31 2009 From: darlene.olsen at gmail.com (Darlene Olsen) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 12:51:31 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] JAWS and Internet Explorer References: <862555.47972.qm@web90305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you for the information. I am a future law student and depend on the JAWS screen reader. I have a gmail account but thought a second account would be in order. I really appreciate your informing us of the situation mentioned. Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Gilmore" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 11:16 AM Subject: [blindlaw] JAWS and Internet Explorer I realize this isn't a legal post or a job post; however, I didn't know how many of the JAWS users out there were aware that Internet Explorer 8 only works with Jaws 10.0. For those of you who are still using IE 7 and an earlier version of JAWS, you are probably finding that you can not open your yahoo e-mail and read them. In fact, JAWS 10 has an upgrade that can be downloaded so that IE8 can be utilized to use gmail and yahoo e-mail (i.e., to open a message.) If any of you out there are computer savvy, I was wondering if it was the MSAA mode of earlie JAWS versions that don't quite sync up with IE8 and allow the opening of yahoo e-mails anymore. I ask because I tried a little experiment yesterday. If you turn off JAWS and run the voice for a screen magnifier (I have no idea if it came with JAWS or Openbook--most likely JAWS), you can open a yahoo e-mail and forward it to hotmail let's say for example. Even so, you can't read the message in yahoo and thus need to turn JAWS back on and go to the other e-mail account to read it. The magnifier reader reads links but that's it. I apologize if this starting to sound a little rambling; but, I wanted to get the word out. Perhaps NFB or someone should contact yahoo and let them know the problem they have caused to those who use versions of JAWS that precede 10.0 and Internet Explorer that precede 8.0. Let's face it: upgrades are nice (and granted there are some new features in the new Jaws that are more convenient); but, why should we have to upgrade each time they upgrade? Just food for thought. Mike _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/darlene.olsen%40gmail.com From JWilson at nfb.org Tue May 5 21:08:57 2009 From: JWilson at nfb.org (Wilson, Joanne) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 16:08:57 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Pre-registration for National Convention Message-ID: Attention Conventioneers: The early bird gets more than the worm when pre-registering for the national convention! Registering in advance will help you avoid never-ending lines, will give you more time to get involved in action-packed convention activities, and will save you some cash. Visit by May 31 to complete the easy registration process. Hope to see you in Detroit... but not in the registration lines! Joanne Wilson From stiehm.law at juno.com Wed May 6 19:46:51 2009 From: stiehm.law at juno.com (Patrick H. Stiehm) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 15:46:51 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Using discovery from other countries? Message-ID: <20090506.154651.3392.7.stiehm.law@juno.com> There is not enough information here to answer this question. There are so many factors that would enter into getting the evidence in that this question just does not address. To even begin to answer the question you would need to know what the evidence is, the exact nature of the "discovery" in the foreign court and the rules of evidence in effect in the court where the matter is being heard in the United States. Maybe, with the answers to those questions and any others that they give rise to, one would have a beginning point from which to do the research with respect to getting the evidence. Patrick H. Stiehm Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, VA 22309 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) I hope this is helpful. On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:01:15 -0300 "E.J. Zufelt" writes: > Good evening, > > Not being a lawyer and having never taken a course in evidence, > please > forgive any ignorance in the following question. > > Based on a hypothetical situation, would a U.S. court be generally > > willing to accept evidence that was obtained through the process of > > discovery in a legal proceeding in another country? > > Thanks, > Everett > > Follow me on Twitter > http://twitter.com/ezufelt > > View my LinkedIn Profile > http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju no.com > > ____________________________________________________________ Get the best Criminal Lawyer. Click Here http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTOVoImggsX9BeMpE0aShXE0WF724uN3zZPWgKXXJYNkeq4IUbIa8g/ From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed May 6 20:34:07 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 15:34:07 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Case Western Reserve University students will use textbooks on Kindle electronic reader, Plain Dealer, May 6, 2009 Message-ID: Blindlaw listers: We recently had a discussion on this list about the Kindle. The below article highlights the use that blind law students could potentially make of the device if the materials on it were allowed to be accessed via audio. Noel Link: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/05/case_western_reserve_universit_4.html Text: Case Western Reserve University students will use textbooks on Kindle electronic reader Posted by Janet Okoben/Plain Dealer Reporter May 06, 2009 Case Western Reserve University students will be among the first in the nation to use textbooks on the new Kindle electronic reader next fall, using a large-screen version of the device to be unveiled today in New York. Students in the chemistry, computer science and freshman seminar classes using the handheld Kindle next fall at CWRU will be asked to compare their experience to that of classmates using traditional paper textbooks, Lev Gonick, the university's chief information officer, said in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday. CWRU is one of six universities nationally picked to test the equipment, according to the report. Amazon, the company that produces Kindle, has worked out a deal with publishers to load textbooks onto the devices, which will be supplied to students, Gonick told the newspaper. Contacted by The Plain Dealer on Tuesday, Gonick would not comment. Amazon did not release advance information about the new device, but the blogosphere was rampant Tuesday with reports that it will have a larger screen than the current models. The Wall Street Journal also reported that the new Kindle will have a more fully functional Web browser. The ability to link to an Internet site from text, as a way of learning more about a word or phrase, is one of the features that has attracted interest in Kindle. Books and periodicals are downloaded directly onto the device for a fee. But will the device be as useful for textbooks, which often aren't read from start to finish in the way a reader would work through a novel? Students flip back and forth through chapters, highlighting sections and bookmarking others. To be useful to students, Kindle textbooks also must be able to accommodate that, said CWRU students interviewed on Tuesday. While CWRU President Barbara Snyder prepared to appear on stage in New York with Amazon Chief Executive Jeffrey Bezos today, students on campus were cramming for finals using the tools of the trade for college students these days: Laptops, iPhones and, usually, paper textbooks. "You don't know how useful something is until you try it," said Yugarshi Mondal, a senior chemistry and economics major from Chicago, comparing the prospect of a Kindle to his iPhone, which has applications he has come to rely on. Libby Lehman, a freshman chemical engineering major from Navarre, Ohio, said she's kind of partial to paper. Sitting at the Arabica coffeehouse on campus, with her Mac laptop front and center as she studied for her last final exam of the year, Lehman said she likes to flip through the pages of her textbooks. A physics class Lehman took recently offered notes online, but also offered those notes printed and bound for $15 at the campus bookstore. Lehman bought the printed notes. "Cost-wise, it would be nice" to download more course materials, but Lehman said Kindle or any other product has to be easy to use. "It would depend a lot on the format," she said. Mustafa Ascha, a sophomore economics and philosophy major from Gates Mills, perked up immediately when he heard about the Kindle plan on Tuesday. Ascha, who was working on a small Eee PC laptop at a cafe in CWRU's Thwing Center, said he doesn't bring his 15-inch laptop with him to classes because it's too big, but he wouldn't be deterred by the idea of toting a Kindle. The key, he said, will be the ease of use, because students don't want to have to learn how to use the device. "Students want to open a book and go to a page," he said. "If you have to do any more than that, students won't use it." From my5thattempt at yahoo.com Wed May 6 20:57:27 2009 From: my5thattempt at yahoo.com (M BG) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 13:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] Target settlement Message-ID: <931972.6076.qm@web36708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Has anyone received any word or payments regarding the Target settlement yet? From JFreeh at nfb.org Thu May 7 01:33:44 2009 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 20:33:44 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] National Federation of the Blind Comments on Release of Large-screen Kindle Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org National Federation of the Blind Comments on Release of Large-screen Kindle Urges Accessibility of New E-book Reader for Students Baltimore, Maryland (May 6, 2009): The National Federation of the Blind, the nation's oldest and largest organization of blind Americans, commented today on the release by Amazon, Inc. of a new version of its Kindle electronic reading device. The new Kindle has a larger screen than previous versions and is being marketed by Amazon as a potential platform for the display of textbooks for college and graduate students. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "We are appalled that Amazon is releasing a new Kindle device ostensibly for the use of students that does not contain features that make it accessible to the blind. While this new device has the ability to read text aloud, its controls and user interface are not accessible to blind people; therefore, blind students will not have access to electronic textbooks available for the device. If the controls on the Kindle are made accessible to the blind, however, blind students will have equal access to textbooks at the same time as their sighted peers for the first time in history. We therefore urge Amazon to introduce a user interface for the Kindle that is accessible to the blind as soon as possible. Until such an accessible interface is introduced by Amazon, no college or university should deploy this device for use by its students, since doing so will place blind students at an unfair disadvantage compared to their sighted peers and will violate state and federal laws requiring equal access to textbooks and course materials for students with disabilities." ### From JLazarus at nfb.org Thu May 7 19:52:35 2009 From: JLazarus at nfb.org (Lazarus, Jerry) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 14:52:35 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Notice to Affiliates, Divisions, Committees, and Groups Message-ID: From: Jerry Lazarus, Exhibit Coordinator, 2009 NFB National Convention Attention: Affiliates, Divisions, Committees, and Groups: Please be aware that space in the Exhibit Hall can still be obtained through May 29. If you are an Affiliate President, or head of a division, committee, or group, and wish to have a table in the exhibit hall, please obtain an exhibitor application from our Web site, or this link exhibitor application. Fill in the pertinent information and send the completed form to Exhibit Coordinator, National Federation of the Blind, 1800 Johnson Street, Baltimore, Maryland 21230. Or, it can be e-mailed to Jerry Lazarus: jlazarus at nfb.org. Other documents available from our Web site include the Exhibitor Fact Sheet and Guidelines providing details on hall setup, operating hours, teardown, and related information. Should you have additional questions, please contact Jerry at 410-659-9314, extension 2297, or by e-mail at jlazarus at nfb.org. Jerry L. Lazarus Director of Special Projects Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 1800 Johnson Street Baltimore, Maryland 21230-4998 (410) 659-9314, Ext. 2297 Fax: (410) 659-5129 http://www.nfb.org jlazarus at nfb.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Listserv notice to NFB Exhibitors- May 2009.doc Type: application/msword Size: 27648 bytes Desc: not available URL: From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Thu May 7 20:33:43 2009 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 13:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] question for Alabama probate attorney Message-ID: <574976.6286.qm@web90305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> How common is it for the executor of a will to be reimbursed for costs such as phone calls and the like? From mikefry79 at gmail.com Thu May 7 23:22:12 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 16:22:12 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] question for Alabama probate attorney In-Reply-To: <574976.6286.qm@web90305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <574976.6286.qm@web90305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0905071622k666021d9hf5daba5655515e03@mail.gmail.com> It depends on whether the executor is also a beneficiary. If the executor is not a beneficiary, then the executor should get reimbursed for expenses and be paid a fee. If the executor is also a beneficiary then, though it will be tougher, they should still get reimbursed for expenses. I'm not an expert on the subject. This is just my opinion. Mike On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Mike Gilmore wrote: > How common is it for the executor of a will to be reimbursed for costs such > as phone calls and the like? > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From donnabutterfly50 at gmail.com Fri May 8 00:37:49 2009 From: donnabutterfly50 at gmail.com (Donna Posont) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 19:37:49 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Need for national convention door prizes Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Posont Subject: national convention door prizes National convention will soon be upon us. If you or your chapter, division, or state organization would be so kind as to donate a door prize it would be greatly appreciated. If you would like to mail anything ahead you may send it to Donna Posont 15429 Prospect St. Dearborn, Mi 48126 or call 313-220-8140. You may bring door prizes to convention and feel free to take them to the Michigan suite. Remember, cash is always a delightful prize and it is easy to carry to Detroit and easy to carry home or use while a convention. Thanks for your kindness, Donna Posont From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Fri May 8 04:41:55 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 21:41:55 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] question for Alabama probate attorney In-Reply-To: <8c58e54a0905071622k666021d9hf5daba5655515e03@mail.gmail.com> References: <574976.6286.qm@web90305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8c58e54a0905071622k666021d9hf5daba5655515e03@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Usually the executor is entitled to reasonable expenses in administering an estate in most states. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Fry" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question for Alabama probate attorney > It depends on whether the executor is also a beneficiary. If the executor > is not a beneficiary, then the executor should get reimbursed for expenses > and be paid a fee. If the executor is also a beneficiary then, though it > will be tougher, they should still get reimbursed for expenses. I'm not > an > expert on the subject. This is just my opinion. > > Mike > > On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Mike Gilmore > wrote: > >> How common is it for the executor of a will to be reimbursed for costs >> such >> as phone calls and the like? >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From KBowman at nfb.org Fri May 8 16:50:55 2009 From: KBowman at nfb.org (Bowman, Kristi) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 11:50:55 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Make A Promise - Change A Life With A Dollar Message-ID: This message is from Joanne Wilson on behalf of the Imagination Fund. Dave Hello All: NFB has relied on the generosity of our communities for as long as I can remember. The donations that we receive are integral to the work that we accomplish. It is because of this relevant truth that I am asking for your support. Since its inception in 2004, the Imagination Fund has given out well over a million dollars to support local and national outreach efforts. The money you have worked hard to raise has most definitely been used well! There are many plans for what we would like our future to look like and for how we can continue to build a future of opportunity and change what it means to be blind for younger generations. The simple reality is that in order to accomplish our goals, we must be able to pay for our programs. YOU CAN HELP! We have created a mini March for Independence campaign that offers the ability for you and the members in your chapters and affiliates to get special incentives when you participate. How the campaign works is outlined below. I urge you to READ the information below and then to REGISTER for the mini-March campaign. If you haven't raised any money yet, this campaign may be perfect for you (read below and you'll see why). Thank you very much for considering this campaign and being a part of a brighter future for all blind people. Joanne Wilson How it works: When you JOIN the Every Member, Every Friend Match Campaign you PROMISE to support the campaign with a PROMISE of a dollar a day or $30 per month for the next four months paid in flexible (options everyone can afford) automatic monthly installments deducted from your checking account or billed to your credit card. Then: YOU get just ONE OTHER PERSON to MATCH your PROMISE with the same flexible, personalized, automatic payment schedule. You get: When you make a promise and get ONE match, we'll throw in a March for Independence t-shirt! More matches will get additional March incentives! Many of us have not yet started fundraising for the March for Independence! NOW IS THE TIME! DON'T DELAY! JOIN THE CAMPAIGN NOW! I'd like MORE INFORMATION Unsubscribe from receiving email, or change your email preferences. From chatter8712 at gmail.com Fri May 8 17:05:17 2009 From: chatter8712 at gmail.com (Shane D) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 13:05:17 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Make A Promise - Change A Life With A Dollar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7556b95a0905081005r18b779a8n2f4b627c75acd25e@mail.gmail.com> On 5/8/09, Bowman, Kristi wrote: > This message is from Joanne Wilson on behalf of the Imagination Fund. > > Dave > > > Hello All: > > NFB has relied on the generosity of our communities for as long as I > can remember. The donations that we receive are integral to the work > that we accomplish. It is because of this relevant truth that I am > asking for your support. > > Since its inception in 2004, the Imagination Fund has given out well > over a million dollars to support local and national outreach > efforts. The money you have worked hard to raise has most definitely > been used well! There are many plans for what we would like our > future to look like and for how we can continue to build a future of > opportunity and change what it means to be blind for younger generations. > > The simple reality is that in order to accomplish our goals, we must > be able to pay for our programs. > > YOU CAN HELP! > > We have created a mini > March > for Independence campaign that offers the ability for you and the > members in your chapters and affiliates to get special incentives > when you participate. How the campaign works is outlined below. > > I urge you to READ the information below and then to > REGISTER > for the mini-March campaign. If you haven't raised any money yet, > this campaign may be perfect for you (read below and you'll see why). > > Thank you very much for considering this campaign and being a part of > a brighter future for all blind people. > > Joanne Wilson > > > > > > > > > > How it works: > > When you JOIN the Every Member, Every Friend Match Campaign > you PROMISE to support the campaign with a PROMISE of > a dollar a day or $30 per month for the next four months paid in > flexible (options everyone can afford) automatic monthly installments > deducted from your checking account or billed to your credit card. > > > Then: > > > YOU get just ONE OTHER PERSON to MATCH your PROMISE with the same > flexible, personalized, automatic payment schedule. > > You get: > > When you make a promise and get ONE match, we'll throw in a > March for Independence t-shirt! > > More matches will get additional March incentives! > > Many of us have not yet started fundraising for the March for Independence! > > NOW IS THE TIME! > > DON'T DELAY! > > JOIN > THE CAMPAIGN NOW! > > > > I'd > like MORE INFORMATION > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe > from receiving email, or change your email preferences. > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmail.com > -- -Shane Website: http://www.blind-geek.com AIM: inhaddict MSN: shane at blind-geek.com Skype: chatter8712 Twitter: blind_geek From qmsingleton at comcast.net Sun May 10 23:38:29 2009 From: qmsingleton at comcast.net (Quintina M. Singleton) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 18:38:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Knfb Reader on Thruoureyes with Joe Ruffalo Message-ID: Please tune in to the next "Thruoureyes with Joe Ruffalo" internet radio program scheduled for Wednesday, May 13 at 8:00 PM EST. Mr. Ruffalo along with co-host Jerry Moreno will be speaking with successful salesman and sales manager, Michael Hingson, all about the KnfbReader Mobile. It's many features, the National sales program of the National Federation of the Blind, the newly assigned dealers as well as opportunities for others to become dealers, pricing and availability of the Reader, and much more will be discussed during this informative program. To listen via the web, visit www.thruoureyes.org or via telephone dial (201) 793 9022 pass code 2400484# Anyone interested in asking a question during the program may do so by calling 1 888 572 0141 To find out what shows are scheduled during the current month and / or to listen to both Current and Archived podcasts, just go to www.thruoureyes.org/jaws.html Save the Date: On Wednesday June 3, the happenings of Newsline will be the focus of Mr. Ruffalo's program. Details coming soon. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon May 11 17:12:41 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 12:12:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: 3D News & Notes Message-ID: ________________________________ From: CMPDL's Disability Discussion Docket (3D) [mailto:CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG] On Behalf Of Phelan, William Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 5:34 AM To: CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG Subject: 3D News & Notes Hello members of 3D, In order to both update and educate, every now and then I will send out information regarding the Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law and the Disability Discussion Docket (3D): * Only 5 days left to submit a scholarship application for the Second ABA National Conference on the Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities. Knowing we are tough economic times, the Commission will select several deserving lawyers or law students with disabilities to receive free lodging and registration for the Conference! (http://new.abanet.org/calendar/2nd-National-Conference-on-Employment-of-Lawyers-with-Disabilities/Pages/ScholarshipInformation.aspx) * The Commission has recently redesigned its website! The new look has a more streamlined feel. E-mail Bill at phelanw at staff.abanet.org with your thoughts and comments. (http://www.abanet.org/disability) * Know a lawyer with a disability who deserves applause? Suggest him or her to be given the ABA Lawyer Spotlight. We are currently seeking nominations for the Lawyer Spotlight. (http://www.abanet.org/disability/spotlight/suggest.shtml) * Each month a selection from the Mental and Physical Disability Law Digest will be available for free on the Commission's website! (http://www.abanet.org/disability). This month's selection is on community based care. If you want to see a specific topic featured in June, send your suggestion to the Commission. (http://www.abanet.org/disability/publications/lawdigest/suggest.shtml) * Don't forget to register for the Second ABA National Conference on the Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities. (http://new.abanet.org/calendar/2nd-National-Conference-on-Employment-of-Lawyers-with-Disabilities/Pages/default.aspx) * 3D Posting Reminders * Be sure to sign your full name to each post. * When replying, be sure to use the "reply all" function. When you use the "reply" function, it will only go to 3D, and not 3D along with the original sender. If your reply does not go out to the entire list, we want to make sure that the person you are replying to gets your message. Hitting "reply all" makes sure this happens. Best, Bill Phelan 3D Moderator William J. Phelan, IV, Esq. Special Projects and Technology Coordinator Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law American Bar Association 740 15th Street, NW, 9th Floor Washington, DC 20005-1022 T: 202.662.1576 F: 202.442.3439 phelanw at staff.abanet.org www.abanet.org/disability --------- [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/3Dlogo.jpg] Disability Discussion Docket (3D) ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law http://www.abanet.org/disability --------- To leave this list at any time, please send a message to listserv at mail.abanet.org. In the body of the message type "sign off cmpdl-3d." If you have any questions about 3D or the CMPDL in general, please contact William Phelan at phelanw at staff.abanet.org. From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Mon May 11 21:38:05 2009 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 14:38:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] alimony in Alabama Message-ID: <544510.76205.qm@web90302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In the state of Alabama, is there any certain amount of time for two people to be married before they can petition for alimony? A friend of mine has a daughter-in-law who was told by an attorney that she and her husband hadn't been married long enough in order for her to ask for alimony. (They'll be married five years in August.) I told my friend that I have no knowledge whether any state has restrictions on the ability to receive alimony.   Mike From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue May 12 01:25:05 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 18:25:05 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] alimony in Alabama In-Reply-To: <544510.76205.qm@web90302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <544510.76205.qm@web90302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Most of all of the state codes and statutes can be found on www.findlaw.com. This web site while not having case annotations does have access to the codes and general information regarding the actual text of statutes is available there. With changes in the family court laws in most states this information is most likely accurate as courts generally are shying a way from awarding alimony payments for a long period of time. There are factors that determine whether it will be awarded and the terms based on the specific circumstances of the parties, I.e. length of marriage, income of parties, employment skills and level of employment of each party, etc. In cases where it is awarded it is done for a short period of time to allow the party receiving alimony to use the period in question to become self-sufficient or develop skills. This is a general overview as I tend to avoid doing much in the arena of family law. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Gilmore" To: Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 2:38 PM Subject: [blindlaw] alimony in Alabama In the state of Alabama, is there any certain amount of time for two people to be married before they can petition for alimony? A friend of mine has a daughter-in-law who was told by an attorney that she and her husband hadn't been married long enough in order for her to ask for alimony. (They'll be married five years in August.) I told my friend that I have no knowledge whether any state has restrictions on the ability to receive alimony. Mike _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed May 13 15:23:54 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 10:23:54 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Updated Air Carrier Access Act Regulations - An Overview of the ACAA Now Available Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: DBTAC - Southwest ADA Center at ILRU [mailto:ilru at ilru.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:53 PM To: ilru at ilru.org Subject: Updated Air Carrier Access Act Regulations - An Overview of the ACAA Now Available The Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA) regulations have been updated to incorporate new requirements. They will become enforceable May 13, 2009. To help you understand your rights under the updated ACAA, the National Network of ADA Centers announces the release of "An Overview of the ACAA." Key changes include: * Coverage extended to foreign carriers; * New requirements for airport and aircraft accessibility and changes in airport services including reservations, facilities, in-flight and aircraft acquisitions; * New requirements for passengers who use respiratory assistive devices including 48 - hour notification of use in advance of flight; * New guidelines on provision of effective communication for passengers who are deaf or hard-of hearing; * New requirements for passengers traveling with emotional support animals or psychiatric service animals to provide documentation and give 48-hours' notice before flight. Call your regional ADA Center at 1-800-949-4232 for questions on the ACAA, the Americans with Disabilities Act and other disability-related laws. Visit the Disability Law Index to review the full set of ACAA regulations as updated. If you would like to unsubscribe to the ILRU email list, please respond to this email with 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. ILRU sends out messages about our Webcasts, publications and other resources pertaining to the independent living field, home and community based services, disability law resources, health and wellness issues, and other important disability news. ILRU does not share its e-mail announcement list with other individuals or organizations. We do not use auto retrieval systems to get your e-mail, buy e-mail lists or participate in SPAMMING. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed May 13 15:26:48 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 10:26:48 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: NCD Announces Funding (Research) Opportunity with correct email address. Message-ID: ________________________________ From: National Council on Disability News List [mailto:NCD-NEWS-L at LISTSERV.ACCESS.GPO.GOV] On Behalf Of Mark Quigley Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 6:28 AM To: NCD-NEWS-L at LISTSERV.ACCESS.GPO.GOV Subject: NCD Announces Funding (Research) Opportunity with correct email address. Please disregard the first transmission of this announcement. Joan Durocher's email address was incorrect and is now corrected. Thank you for your patience. NCD Announces Funding (Research) Opportunity On May 13, NCD announced a Notice of Funding Opportunity (NCD-09-02) for a cooperative agreement to study "The Accessibility of U.S.-funded Overseas Facilities and Programs." NCD is interested in examining and understanding the responsibilities of U.S.-funded overseas facilities and programs, both public and private. NCD is seeking applicants to research and develop an NCD report with the following three components: 1) An analysis/examination of international law, to determine how U.S.-funded international development organizations will be required to comply with Article 32 of the Convention in those countries which have ratified the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities; and 2) an empirical follow-up to NCD's 2003 report on how USAID is implementing its own disability policy overseas and its impact thus far, along with its compliance with Sections 501, 503, and 504 of the Rehabilitation Act in its overseas operations. The report should review whether these protections against discrimination are being implemented by government employees and contractors working abroad, and will examine whether U.S.-funded programs are being operated in a manner that is accessible to and inclusive of people with disabilities; and 3) evaluate progress on NCD's recommendations regarding the accessibility of U.S. embassies and missions, as well as Department of Defense (DoD)-funded programs and facilities. The deadline for received full proposals is 5:00 p.m. EDT on July 1, 2009. For additional information, please contact Joan Durocher at 202-272-2117 or jdurocher at ncd.gov. Mark S. Quigley Director of External Affairs National Council on Disability From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed May 13 18:50:38 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:50:38 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] General Attorney (Civil Rights for U.S. Dept. of Education in New York Message-ID: ______________________________________________ From: Johnson, B.Sue Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:42 AM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: General Attorney (Civil Rights), OCR-R2- 2009-03 Link: http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/getjob.asp?JobID=80850052&AVSDM=2009%2D05%2D07+00%3A03%3A00&Logo=0&q=OCR-R2-2009-03&FedEmp=N&sort=rv&vw=d&brd=3876&ss=0&FedPub=Y&SUBMIT1.x=0&SUBMIT1.y=0 Text: General Attorney (Civil Rights) SALARY RANGE: 75,986.00 - 98,777.00 USD per year OPEN PERIOD: Thursday, May 07, 2009 to Friday, May 22, 2009 SERIES & GRADE: GS-0905-12/12 POSITION INFORMATION: Full-Time Permanent PROMOTION POTENTIAL: 13 DUTY LOCATIONS: vacancy(s) in one of the following locations: 1 vacancy - New York City, NY WHO MAY BE CONSIDERED: Applications will be accepted from United States citizens. JOB SUMMARY: The U.S. Department of Education (ED), Office for Civil Rights, Region II, New York, is looking for the best and brightest to ensure equal access to education and to promote educational excellence throughout the nation. If you are a highly-motivated individual who would like to work for an agency that focuses national attention on key educational issues and prohibits discrimination and ensures equal access to education, ED OCR is the place for you. The mission of the Office for Civil Rights is to ensure equal access to education and to promote educational excellence throughout the nation through vigorous enforcement of civil rights. You will have responsibility for participating on a civil rights compliance & enforcement team that supports the mission of the Department of Education and the Office for Civil Rights' (OCR) Strategic Plan. OCR ensures compliance with Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act (Section 9525 of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965, as amended by the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001) and the Age Discrimination Act of 1975, and their implementing regulations in school districts, colleges and universities through complaint investigations and compliance reviews. Additional Duty Location Info: 1 vacancy - New York City, NY MAJOR DUTIES: The attorney provides legal and policy advice to the Site Director and the New York office components regarding the processing of complaints and compliance reviews, including investigations, negotiations, acceptance, and monitoring of corrective action plans. Participates in the investigatory process and conducts investigations through the evaluation of complaints and the gathering and analyzing of information needed to assess regulatory compliance. Conducts legal research/analysis of state and federal statutes, regulations and guidelines, and engages in research to resolve legal and policy issues when there are no clear precedents or where there are conflicting state and federal requirements. Prepares legal opinions including analysis of facts and evidence, resolution of factual and legal issues, and makes recommendations on jurisdictional questions. Prepares investigative plans and reports, letters of findings, and participates in the development of negotiation strategies and legal representation in negotiations with public and private educational institutions, state agencies and their legal representatives. QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED: Applicants must meet all qualifications as of the closing date of the announcement. Basic Requirements: You must be a graduate from a law school accredited by the American Bar Association. Proof of admission to the Bar of the highest court of a state, territory, the District of Columbia, or the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico; and current membership in such Bar as would permit the practice of law. You must be a member in good standing of a state, territory of the United States, District of Columbia, or Commonwealth of Puerto Rico bar. PROOF MUST BE SUBMITTED WITH APPLICATION. Professional Legal Experience Requirement: Applicants must have the years of professional legal experience as shown below. For appointment at the GS-12 level, the following qualification requirements are needed: One year of professional legal experience. You must have one year of specialized experience at a level close to the work of this job that has given you the particular knowledge, skills, and abilities required to successfully perform. Typically we would find this experience in work within this field or a field that is closely related. This experience must be equivalent to that of the duties of a GS-11 Attorney in Federal service. The one year of professional experience may be substituted as follows: Advanced educational attainments which clearly indicate the ability to independently perform complex legal work. The educational background should include course work beyond the first professional degree within this field or a field that is closely related; or A second professional law degree (LL.M) which requires one full year of graduate study; or The first professional law degree (LL.B. or J.D.), provided the applicant's record shows superior law student work or activities as demonstrated by one of the following: Academic standing in the upper third of the law school graduating class; or Work or achievement of significance on law school's official law review; or Special high-level honors for academic excellence in law school, such as election to the Order of the Coif; or Winning of a moot court competition or membership on the moot court team which represents the law school in the competition with other law schools; or Full-time or continuous participation in a legal aid program as opposed to one-time, intermittent, or casual participation; or Significant summer law clerk experience (law clerk work which entailed legal research, brief writing, or negotiating in areas relevant to the work described in the description of duties for this vacancy); or Other equivalent evidence of clearly superior achievement. Specialized Education: You must be a graduate from a law school accredited by the American Bar Association and be a member in good standing of a state, territory of the United States, District of Columbia, or Commonwealth of Puerto Rico bar. You must be a U.S. citizen to qualify for this position. You will need to successfully complete a background security investigation before you can be appointed into this position. You will be required to do some travel. HOW YOU WILL BE EVALUATED: You will be evaluated to determine if you meet the minimum qualifications required; and on the extent to which your application shows that you possess the knowledge, skills, and abilities associated with this position as defined below. When describing your knowledge, skills, and abilities, please be sure to give examples and explain how often you used these skills, the complexity of the knowledge you possessed, the level of the people you interacted with, the sensitivity of the issues you handled, etc. Knowledge of generally accepted legal writing techniques, including proper format and structure of various legal documents and ability to conduct legal analysis in a thorough and complete manner. Ability to produce written work in a clear, concise, persuasive and technically correct manner. Ability to communicate orally in a clear, concise, persuasive and technically correct manner. Knowledge of constitutional law and civil rights law; knowledge of and experience with investigative techniques. Ability to perform legal tasks within stringent time frames to meet program objectives. BENEFITS: You may participate in the Federal Employees Health Benefits program, with costs shared with your employer. More info: http://www.usajobs.gov/jobextrainfo.asp#FEHB. Life insurance coverage is provided. More info: http://www.usajobs.gov/jobextrainfo.asp#life Long-Term Care Insurance is offered and carries into your retirement. More info: http://www.usajobs.gov/jobextrainfo.asp#ltci New employees are automatically covered by the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS). If you are transferring from another agency and covered by CSRS, you may continue in this program. More info: http://www.usajobs.gov/jobextrainfo.asp#retr You will earn annual vacation leave. More info: http://www.usajobs.gov/jobextrainfo.asp#VACA You will earn sick leave. More info: http://www.usajobs.gov/jobextrainfo.asp#SKLV You will be paid for federal holidays that fall within your regularly scheduled tour of duty. More info: http://www.usajobs.gov/jobextrainfo.asp#HOLI Alternative work schedule options are available. If you use public transportation, part of your transportation costs may be subsidized. Our human resources office can provide additional information on how this program is run. You can use Health Care Flexible Spending Accounts for expenses that are tax-deductible, but not reimbursed by any other source, including out-of-pocket expenses and non-covered benefits under their FEHB plans. More Info: http://www.usajobs.gov/jobextrainfo.asp#FSA OTHER INFORMATION: This job is being filled by an alternative hiring process and is not in the competitive civil service. When promotion potential is shown, the agency is not making a commitment and is not obligated to provide future promotions to you if you are selected. Future promotions will be dependent on your ability to perform the duties at a higher level, the continuing need for an employee assigned to the higher level, and administrative approval. You must submit all required information by the closing date. If materials are not received, your application will be evaluated solely on the information available and you may not receive full consideration or may not be considered eligible. The materials you send with your application will not be returned. You will be required to serve a probationary period of 1 year. HOW TO APPLY: You must submit your application so that it will be received by the closing date of the announcement. SUBMIT APPLICATION AND ALL REQUIRED DOCUMENTS TO: Department of Education, Office for Civil Rights, ATTENTION: Timothy Blanchard, Vacancy Announcement #: OCR-R2-2009-03, 32 Old Slip Road, 26th Floor, New York, NY 10005. Although we do not require a specific format, certain information is required to determine if you are qualified. To receive full consideration, you MUST SUBMIT the following information: 1) You may apply for this position with a resume, Form OF-612 (Optional Application for Federal Employment), SF-171 (Application for Federal Employment), or other application format of your choice. Please identify the vacancy announcement number, including your current address, and business/home phone numbers and e-mail address (if available). If you had at least one year of full-time professional experience, i.e. legal experience gained after your law degree was conferred, give a full description of the nature, extent and complexity of work performed. Also describe any special educational qualifications such as a second law degree or evidence of superior law student work or activities; AND 2) You must submit a legal writing sample; 3) Submit a narrative response to each knowledge, skill or ability listed (See Section ' How you will be Evaluated'). Your response should describe what you did, how often you performed this activity, the guidelines available, the complexity of the assignment, and who you performed the activity for or with. 4) You must submit a photocopy of current membership in such BAR as would permit the practice of law. Membership must be in good standing; AND 5) If you are an individual who wishes recognition of their Veteran's status, please submit form DD-214, Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty. Be sure work experiences listed on your application includes: job titles, duties and accomplishments, employer's name, specify full-time or part-time (list # of hours per week if part-time), beginning/ending employment dates (month & year) and annual salary. If you are a current or former federal employee with reinstatement eligibility, you must submit a copy of your last Notification of Personnel Action (SF50) showing your position, title, series, grade and eligibility. Application mailed using government postage or through an internal federal government mail system will not be considered. AGENCY CONTACT INFO: Top Timothy Blanchard Phone: 646-428-3800 Email: Timothy.Blanchard at ed.gov Or write: Department Of Education/Office for Civil Rights 32 Old Slip Road 26th Floor New York, NY 10005 US WHAT TO EXPECT NEXT: Once your complete application is received we will conduct an evaluation of your qualifications and determine your ranking. The most highly qualified candidates will be referred to the hiring manager for further consideration and possible interview. We expect to make a selection as promptly as possible after the closing date of this announcement. You will be notified if you are selected for an interview. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed May 13 18:53:09 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:53:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 8:15 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice ________________________________ From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 11:10 AM To: Maurer, Patricia; nijc at aol.com; nlove at opd.state.md.us; nmcconnell at jackscamp.com; noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu; president at abaw.org; president at adc.org; president at apabala.org; president at blackwomenlawyersla.org; president at dominicanbarassociation.org; president at msba.org; president at phillybarristers.org; president at sabasc.org; president at southasianbar.org; rbreiter at law.miami.edu Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA MAY 11, 2009 09-EDCA-05A Applications should be postmarked no later than Friday, May 15, 2009. Date posted: 05-11-2009 * EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEY, GS-12 THROUGH GS-15 CIVIL DIVISION, TORTS BRANCH, AVIATION & ADMIRALITY SECTION WASHINGTON, DC Applications must be postmarked by no later than May 15, 2009 (applications submitted by e-mail must be received by that date). Date posted: 05-08-2009 * TRIAL ATTORNEYS/GS-12 TO GS-15 CIVIL DIVISION, OFFICE OF CONSUMER LITIGATION WASHINGTON, DC Application materials must be submitted no later than June 5, 2009. Application materials submitted via e-mail must be received by the deadline. Date posted: 05-08-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-14 to GS-15 Applicants should send a resume and cover letter as soon as possible, but not later than May 31, 2009. Date posted: 05-06-2009 * TRIAL ATTORNEYS, GS-12 THROUGH GS-15 CIVIL DIVISION, FEDERAL PROGRAMS BRANCH WASHINGTON, DC These positions are open until filled. Date posted: 05-06-2009 * TRIAL ATTORNEYS, GS-12 THROUGH GS-15 CIVIL DIVISION, FEDERAL PROGRAMS BRANCH WASHINGTON, DC These positions are open until filled. Date posted: 05-06-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-14 to GS-15 Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. Date posted: 05-05-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-14 to GS-15 Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. Date posted: 05-05-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA 09-EDVA-01 Positions are open until filled, but resumes must be received by May 18, 2009. Date posted: 05-05-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE - SAN DIEGO, CA. TRIAL ATTORNEY Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of May 26, 2009 and will be accepted up to five calendar days after the closing date. Date posted: 05-01-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE UNITED STATES ATTORNEY EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA Position is open until filled. Date posted: 05-01-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY/GS-13 to GS-15 This position will be open until May 18, 2009. Date posted: 05-01-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY/GS-13 to GS-15 This position will be open until May 13, 2009. Date posted: 05-01-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA 09-AZ-05 Applications must be recieved by May 13, 2009. Date posted: 04-29-2009 * ATTORNEY ADVISOR EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW FALLS CHURCH, VA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-09-0057 All applications MUST be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on May 20, 2009. Date posted: 04-29-2009 The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From habnkid at aol.com Thu May 14 18:55:30 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:55:30 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Message-ID: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> Hello, I'm planning to take the LSAT sometime in the next year and am wondering what kind of accommodations are usually offered to blind students. I am a braille reader, so I would want a braille copy of the exam. I would also like access to a CCTV so I could draw diagrams for some of the problems. How much extra time would I be offered? thanks, Haben From angie.matney at gmail.com Thu May 14 21:21:00 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:21:00 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> Message-ID: <4a0c8b39.85c2f10a.196c.6b09@mx.google.com> Hello Haben, You could likely receive the amount of extra time that is consistent with what you have received in the past. Some people routinely use double time; others routinely use time and a half. I believe that if you have documentation supporting the amount of time you typically use, LSAC will provide that accommodation. They will not give you unlimited time. Good luck. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Haben Girma Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:55 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Hello, I'm planning to take the LSAT sometime in the next year and am wondering what kind of accommodations are usually offered to blind students. I am a braille reader, so I would want a braille copy of the exam. I would also like access to a CCTV so I could draw diagrams for some of the problems. How much extra time would I be offered? thanks, Haben _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Thu May 14 21:39:37 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:39:37 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> Message-ID: <20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> Haben, Braille test and double time seem to be the requests most often talked about here. Some ask for time and a half, since that's typical in the university setting, but most who do wish they'd requested double. Given the very high stakes nature of the LSAT and that I don't think more time will make a person more analytical or logical, this seems reasonable to me. Joseph On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:55:30AM -0700, Haben Girma wrote: > Hello, I'm planning to take the LSAT sometime in the next year and am > wondering what kind of accommodations are usually offered to blind > students. I am a braille reader, so I would want a braille copy of the > exam. I would also like access to a CCTV so I could draw diagrams for > some of the problems. How much extra time would I be offered? > > thanks, > Haben > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From habnkid at aol.com Thu May 14 21:47:05 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:47:05 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> <20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> Would the document showing my final score tell law schools that I used accommodations, and would it specify the exact accommodations? Thanks Joseph and Angie for your answers! Haben T. Joseph Carter wrote: > Haben, > > Braille test and double time seem to be the requests most often talked > about here. Some ask for time and a half, since that's typical in the > university setting, but most who do wish they'd requested double. > Given the very high stakes nature of the LSAT and that I don't think > more time will make a person more analytical or logical, this seems > reasonable to me. > > Joseph > > > On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:55:30AM -0700, Haben Girma wrote: >> Hello, I'm planning to take the LSAT sometime in the next year and >> am wondering what kind of accommodations are usually offered to >> blind students. I am a braille reader, so I would want a braille >> copy of the exam. I would also like access to a CCTV so I could draw >> diagrams for some of the problems. How much extra time would I be >> offered? >> >> thanks, >> Haben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From benkarpilow at gmail.com Thu May 14 23:46:43 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 16:46:43 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com><20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> Message-ID: <33024732595F4FA99ACEF2006E024574@bentar802wznlv> Haben, You had mentioned use of a CCTV as an accomodation. Depending on your level of usable vision, you might consider bringing a portable dry erase board to the test center. I did this and I found it most useful. I also use a CCTV on occasion but find that for certain tasks, a dry erase board is more useful. You can pick them up at most office supply stores. And no, as far as I know, the fact of your accomodations is not disclosed to the law schools to which you'll apply, though the LSAC keeps a record which you will need when you apply for accomodations for the bar exam. Good luck! Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > Would the document showing my final score tell law schools that I used > accommodations, and would it specify the exact accommodations? > > Thanks Joseph and Angie for your answers! > > Haben > > T. Joseph Carter wrote: >> Haben, >> >> Braille test and double time seem to be the requests most often talked >> about here. Some ask for time and a half, since that's typical in the >> university setting, but most who do wish they'd requested double. Given >> the very high stakes nature of the LSAT and that I don't think more time >> will make a person more analytical or logical, this seems reasonable to >> me. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:55:30AM -0700, Haben Girma wrote: >>> Hello, I'm planning to take the LSAT sometime in the next year and am >>> wondering what kind of accommodations are usually offered to blind >>> students. I am a braille reader, so I would want a braille copy of the >>> exam. I would also like access to a CCTV so I could draw diagrams for >>> some of the problems. How much extra time would I be offered? >>> >>> thanks, >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From habnkid at aol.com Fri May 15 01:42:24 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 18:42:24 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <33024732595F4FA99ACEF2006E024574@bentar802wznlv> References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com><20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> <33024732595F4FA99ACEF2006E024574@bentar802wznlv> Message-ID: <4A0CC880.7040801@aol.com> Thanks Ben, I haven't used one of those in a long time. I"ll buy one in the next few weeks and try drawing some diagrams with it. Haben Ben Karpilow wrote: > Haben, > > You had mentioned use of a CCTV as an accomodation. Depending on your > level of usable vision, you might consider bringing a portable dry > erase board to the test center. I did this and I found it most useful. > I also use a CCTV on occasion but find that for certain tasks, a dry > erase board is more useful. You can pick them up at most office supply > stores. And no, as far as I know, the fact of your accomodations is > not disclosed to the law schools to which you'll apply, though the > LSAC keeps a record which you will need when you apply for > accomodations for the bar exam. Good luck! > > Ben > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:47 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > >> >> Would the document showing my final score tell law schools that I >> used accommodations, and would it specify the exact accommodations? >> >> Thanks Joseph and Angie for your answers! >> >> Haben >> >> T. Joseph Carter wrote: >>> Haben, >>> >>> Braille test and double time seem to be the requests most often >>> talked about here. Some ask for time and a half, since that's >>> typical in the university setting, but most who do wish they'd >>> requested double. Given the very high stakes nature of the LSAT and >>> that I don't think more time will make a person more analytical or >>> logical, this seems reasonable to me. >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> >>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:55:30AM -0700, Haben Girma wrote: >>>> Hello, I'm planning to take the LSAT sometime in the next year and >>>> am wondering what kind of accommodations are usually offered to >>>> blind students. I am a braille reader, so I would want a braille >>>> copy of the exam. I would also like access to a CCTV so I could >>>> draw diagrams for some of the problems. How much extra time would I >>>> be offered? >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> Haben >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From angie.matney at gmail.com Fri May 15 02:06:34 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 22:06:34 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <33024732595F4FA99ACEF2006E024574@bentar802wznlv> References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com><20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> <33024732595F4FA99ACEF2006E024574@bentar802wznlv> Message-ID: <4a0cce27.47c2f10a.54c2.ffffa5ce@mx.google.com> Hi, I *believe* (though others can correct me if I'm wrong) that if you use extended time, LSAC does disclose to your law schools that you took the test under nonstandard conditions. I don't know if this applies to other accommodations, such as alternate formats. This was certainly the case when I applied to law schools in the fall of 2005. This information should be accessible (with some digging) at www.lsac.org. Or, at least, it was when I was applying to law schools. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ben Karpilow Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:47 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Haben, You had mentioned use of a CCTV as an accomodation. Depending on your level of usable vision, you might consider bringing a portable dry erase board to the test center. I did this and I found it most useful. I also use a CCTV on occasion but find that for certain tasks, a dry erase board is more useful. You can pick them up at most office supply stores. And no, as far as I know, the fact of your accomodations is not disclosed to the law schools to which you'll apply, though the LSAC keeps a record which you will need when you apply for accomodations for the bar exam. Good luck! Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > Would the document showing my final score tell law schools that I used > accommodations, and would it specify the exact accommodations? > > Thanks Joseph and Angie for your answers! > > Haben > > T. Joseph Carter wrote: >> Haben, >> >> Braille test and double time seem to be the requests most often talked >> about here. Some ask for time and a half, since that's typical in the >> university setting, but most who do wish they'd requested double. Given >> the very high stakes nature of the LSAT and that I don't think more time >> will make a person more analytical or logical, this seems reasonable to >> me. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:55:30AM -0700, Haben Girma wrote: >>> Hello, I'm planning to take the LSAT sometime in the next year and am >>> wondering what kind of accommodations are usually offered to blind >>> students. I am a braille reader, so I would want a braille copy of the >>> exam. I would also like access to a CCTV so I could draw diagrams for >>> some of the problems. How much extra time would I be offered? >>> >>> thanks, >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From bspiry at comcast.net Fri May 15 02:19:23 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 19:19:23 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <4a0cce27.47c2f10a.54c2.ffffa5ce@mx.google.com> References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com><20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> <33024732595F4FA99ACEF2006E024574@bentar802wznlv> <4a0cce27.47c2f10a.54c2.ffffa5ce@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000d01c9d503$90d2c4c0$b2784e40$@net> Yes, true. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:07 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Hi, I *believe* (though others can correct me if I'm wrong) that if you use extended time, LSAC does disclose to your law schools that you took the test under nonstandard conditions. I don't know if this applies to other accommodations, such as alternate formats. This was certainly the case when I applied to law schools in the fall of 2005. This information should be accessible (with some digging) at www.lsac.org. Or, at least, it was when I was applying to law schools. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ben Karpilow Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:47 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Haben, You had mentioned use of a CCTV as an accomodation. Depending on your level of usable vision, you might consider bringing a portable dry erase board to the test center. I did this and I found it most useful. I also use a CCTV on occasion but find that for certain tasks, a dry erase board is more useful. You can pick them up at most office supply stores. And no, as far as I know, the fact of your accomodations is not disclosed to the law schools to which you'll apply, though the LSAC keeps a record which you will need when you apply for accomodations for the bar exam. Good luck! Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > Would the document showing my final score tell law schools that I used > accommodations, and would it specify the exact accommodations? > > Thanks Joseph and Angie for your answers! > > Haben > > T. Joseph Carter wrote: >> Haben, >> >> Braille test and double time seem to be the requests most often talked >> about here. Some ask for time and a half, since that's typical in the >> university setting, but most who do wish they'd requested double. Given >> the very high stakes nature of the LSAT and that I don't think more time >> will make a person more analytical or logical, this seems reasonable to >> me. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:55:30AM -0700, Haben Girma wrote: >>> Hello, I'm planning to take the LSAT sometime in the next year and am >>> wondering what kind of accommodations are usually offered to blind >>> students. I am a braille reader, so I would want a braille copy of the >>> exam. I would also like access to a CCTV so I could draw diagrams for >>> some of the problems. How much extra time would I be offered? >>> >>> thanks, >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From benkarpilow at gmail.com Fri May 15 03:26:28 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 20:26:28 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com><20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com><33024732595F4FA99ACEF2006E024574@bentar802wznlv> <4A0CC880.7040801@aol.com> Message-ID: Another way you might use a dry erase board is to list your multiple choice options and use it as a visual to eliminate options you know are wrong. I actually marked mine with A B C D in permanent ink so I wouldn't have to worry about erasing that part after each question. Thanks also to Angie and Bill for clearing up the issue of whether LSAC makes the fact of accomodations known to law schools. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > Thanks Ben, I haven't used one of those in a long time. I"ll buy one in > the next few weeks and try drawing some diagrams with it. > > Haben > > Ben Karpilow wrote: >> Haben, >> >> You had mentioned use of a CCTV as an accomodation. Depending on your >> level of usable vision, you might consider bringing a portable dry erase >> board to the test center. I did this and I found it most useful. I also >> use a CCTV on occasion but find that for certain tasks, a dry erase board >> is more useful. You can pick them up at most office supply stores. And >> no, as far as I know, the fact of your accomodations is not disclosed to >> the law schools to which you'll apply, though the LSAC keeps a record >> which you will need when you apply for accomodations for the bar exam. >> Good luck! >> >> Ben >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:47 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >>> >>> Would the document showing my final score tell law schools that I used >>> accommodations, and would it specify the exact accommodations? >>> >>> Thanks Joseph and Angie for your answers! >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> T. Joseph Carter wrote: >>>> Haben, >>>> >>>> Braille test and double time seem to be the requests most often talked >>>> about here. Some ask for time and a half, since that's typical in the >>>> university setting, but most who do wish they'd requested double. >>>> Given the very high stakes nature of the LSAT and that I don't think >>>> more time will make a person more analytical or logical, this seems >>>> reasonable to me. >>>> >>>> Joseph >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:55:30AM -0700, Haben Girma wrote: >>>>> Hello, I'm planning to take the LSAT sometime in the next year and am >>>>> wondering what kind of accommodations are usually offered to blind >>>>> students. I am a braille reader, so I would want a braille copy of the >>>>> exam. I would also like access to a CCTV so I could draw diagrams for >>>>> some of the problems. How much extra time would I be offered? >>>>> >>>>> thanks, >>>>> Haben >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From b75205 at gmail.com Fri May 15 15:30:42 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:30:42 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> <20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> Message-ID: They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more than non disabled. Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they have gotten away with it since 1973. You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. James Pepper From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri May 15 15:42:00 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:42:00 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: An Invitation from the ABA President To Register for the 2nd National Conference on Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities Message-ID: ________________________________ From: ABA President H. Thomas Wells, Jr. [mailto:cmpdl at abanet.org] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 4:30 AM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: An Invitation from the ABA President To Register for the 2nd National Conference on Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities If you cannot view this email, click here [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/tommywells_small_75x113.jpg]Dear colleague, On behalf of the American Bar Association and its Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law, I personally invite you to the Second ABA National Conference on the Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities, co-sponsored by the Association of Corporate Counsel and the Minority Corporate Counsel Association. This groundbreaking one and a half-day program will begin on the evening of June 15, 2009, in Washington, D.C. The ABA is committed to diversity in the legal profession, including people with disabilities. The Conference will encourage legal employers to interview, hire, and retain lawyers with disabilities, and it will provide lawyers and law students with disabilities information and methods helpful for attaining employment. The program will feature national experts including law partners, corporate counsels, heads of federal legal departments, law professors, and lawyers with disabilities. We will also be asking employers to sign a pledge to promote disability diversity. I hope you can join us at this historic and important conference. For more information, please visit: http://www.abanet.org/disability/conferences/09conference.shtml or call 202-662-1571. Details on registration, including information on discounts, are available. [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/2009conferencelogowebsmall.jpg] Sincerely, [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/wells.jpg] H. Thomas Wells, Jr., President American Bar Association ________________________________ Your e-mail address will only be used within the ABA and its entities. We do not sell or rent e-mail addresses to anyone outside the ABA. Update your profile | Unsubscribe | Privacy Policy American Bar Association | 321 N Clark | Chicago, IL 60654 | 1-800-285-2221 From angie.matney at gmail.com Fri May 15 16:06:08 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 12:06:08 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> <20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> Message-ID: <4a0d92ec.02c3f10a.7f36.0480@mx.google.com> I'm pretty sure the college board no longer flags the scores of tests taken under nonstandard conditions. I don't know about ACT. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Pepper Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 11:31 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more than non disabled. Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they have gotten away with it since 1973. You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. James Pepper _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From habnkid at aol.com Fri May 15 16:38:49 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 09:38:49 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> <20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> Message-ID: <4A0D9A99.9080605@aol.com> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a university's student body is disabled? Haben James Pepper wrote: > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does > it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is both > of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a > great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of students > who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be considered > discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is not > as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, > since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. But > if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a > college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be > judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot > more than non disabled. > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they > have gotten away with it since 1973. > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept the > blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but > they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > > James Pepper > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From b75205 at gmail.com Fri May 15 19:01:44 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:01:44 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <4A0D9A99.9080605@aol.com> References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> <20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> <4A0D9A99.9080605@aol.com> Message-ID: I remember seeing a form out of the college board where you place the device used to take the test and I saw it last year on their website. Yes here is a spreadsheet from the Census on the numbers of people with degrees in relation to the population laid out by state. there are pretty high percentages of the blind with 2 years or less of college versus graduates relative to the sighted population. Even if you figure the amounts within the classes, there is still something wrong in Denmark! James Pepper . On 5/15/09, Haben Girma wrote: > > Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a > university's student body is disabled? > > Haben > > James Pepper wrote: > > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does > > it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > > schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is > both > > of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > > without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a > > great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > students > > who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > > realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be > considered > > discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is not > > as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > > course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, > > since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. But > > if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a > > college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be > > judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > > population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > > students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a > lot > > more than non disabled. > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they > > have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept > the > > blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but > > they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > > > > James Pepper > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Copy of dt_acs_2006_est_g00__data1.xls Type: application/vnd.ms-excel Size: 68608 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shamaniclivin1281 at hotmail.com Fri May 15 19:18:33 2009 From: shamaniclivin1281 at hotmail.com (Kate Thegreat) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:18:33 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Message-ID: Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an online course for medical transcription. I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it sounds interesting to me. If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? Thanks, Kate _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat May 16 06:21:45 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 23:21:45 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com><20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> Message-ID: Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the various demands placed on them by being in college and not being prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some responsibility for the completion of their course of study. Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does > it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is > both > of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a > great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > students > who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be > considered > discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is not > as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, > since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. But > if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a > college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be > judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a > lot > more than non disabled. > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they > have gotten away with it since 1973. > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept > the > blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but > they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > > James Pepper > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat May 16 07:01:02 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 00:01:02 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kate, I am a totally blind paralegal in California. This is a career change after having done social work and community organizing for many years. To become a paralegal for a law firm in most states it is recommended that you go through a paralegal training program. If you have not had extensive legal experience I would recommend a program that is live rather then a correspondence based program. In most paralegal programs offered through colleges or universities an internship is part of the program. I actually free-lance which means I work for various attorneys on an as needed basis. I mostly work for small firms or solo practitioners that don't require a full-time paralegal. I am not sure that there are that many blind paralegals in the U..S. and I am trying to collect some data about this question and to find other blind paralegals to find out their circumstances. While it is much easier today with on-line legal research and forms software program there are some duties in some circumstances that don't lend themselves to a totally blind person doing all jobs. Examples would apply where it is necessary for a paralegal to review many handwritten documents as part of trial exhibits or information that is provided by a client. This issue came up when I was in the paralegal program when I interviewed with the local public defender's office as interns would assist the lawyers in court and would frequently need to read handwritten police reports. Entering the profession I had some advantages as much of my experience as a social worker was involving law related issues such as court-ordered treatment when I was a therapist, providing alternative sentencing recommendations for criminal defense attorneys, representing clients in Social Security appeals and other administrative law hearings and administering a caseload of workers compensation clients assigned to private rehabilitation services. I have found that working with the attorneys that I have we have been able to develop innovative methods of dealing with various issues and much of the work that I do is done on-line and submitted to the attorneys electronically. If needed I will travel to the firm or attorney that I am working with to meet clients and will to other duties as needed including filing of paperwork with the court. Here in California paralegals who have completed a paralegal training program and who meet other requirements including posting of a surety bond with the county where are working can prepare documents for the general public as a "legal Document Assistant" or an Unlawful detainer Assistant" which in other states is known more commonly as land-lord tenant matters. I hope this information helps and you may feel free to contact me off list as needed. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Thegreat" To: Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:18 PM Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an online course for medical transcription. I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it sounds interesting to me. If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? Thanks, Kate _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From b75205 at gmail.com Sat May 16 07:17:40 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 02:17:40 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: <4A0C6922.3040109@aol.com> <20090514213937.GA7877@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A0C9159.2080206@aol.com> Message-ID: The proportions are not even close. About 1/4 of all students graduate in the regular population but the ratio is 1/14th of the sensory impaired graduate and that includes people who are deaf. There is something going wrong around here! James Pepper From booboobuttken at hotmail.com Sat May 16 14:31:55 2009 From: booboobuttken at hotmail.com (A S) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 14:31:55 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good luck, Kate - I say go for it, but cautiosuly. I am a paralegal by training with my AS in legal assisting and my BS in legal studies. I come with legal experience and many recommendations, yet have been unable to get a job of any sort in the legal field, even with the help of Voc Rehab, since graduating four years ago. I was told prior to my educatin that it would be difficult to find work, especially in the private sector, and they were right. I do still believe that if you're at the right place at the right time and have the right skills, it can happen. Annette > From: shamaniclivin1281 at hotmail.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:18:33 -0400 > Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > > > Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an online course for medical transcription. > > > > I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. > > > > I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it sounds interesting to me. > > > > If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kate > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/booboobuttken%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat May 16 15:37:02 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 11:37:02 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92B6F8B4780740FE89AEF7E663A414F6@StevePC> Hey Chuck: What would you say are your main job duties and how do you perform them? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 3:01 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Hi Kate, I am a totally blind paralegal in California. This is a career change after having done social work and community organizing for many years. To become a paralegal for a law firm in most states it is recommended that you go through a paralegal training program. If you have not had extensive legal experience I would recommend a program that is live rather then a correspondence based program. In most paralegal programs offered through colleges or universities an internship is part of the program. I actually free-lance which means I work for various attorneys on an as needed basis. I mostly work for small firms or solo practitioners that don't require a full-time paralegal. I am not sure that there are that many blind paralegals in the U..S. and I am trying to collect some data about this question and to find other blind paralegals to find out their circumstances. While it is much easier today with on-line legal research and forms software program there are some duties in some circumstances that don't lend themselves to a totally blind person doing all jobs. Examples would apply where it is necessary for a paralegal to review many handwritten documents as part of trial exhibits or information that is provided by a client. This issue came up when I was in the paralegal program when I interviewed with the local public defender's office as interns would assist the lawyers in court and would frequently need to read handwritten police reports. Entering the profession I had some advantages as much of my experience as a social worker was involving law related issues such as court-ordered treatment when I was a therapist, providing alternative sentencing recommendations for criminal defense attorneys, representing clients in Social Security appeals and other administrative law hearings and administering a caseload of workers compensation clients assigned to private rehabilitation services. I have found that working with the attorneys that I have we have been able to develop innovative methods of dealing with various issues and much of the work that I do is done on-line and submitted to the attorneys electronically. If needed I will travel to the firm or attorney that I am working with to meet clients and will to other duties as needed including filing of paperwork with the court. Here in California paralegals who have completed a paralegal training program and who meet other requirements including posting of a surety bond with the county where are working can prepare documents for the general public as a "legal Document Assistant" or an Unlawful detainer Assistant" which in other states is known more commonly as land-lord tenant matters. I hope this information helps and you may feel free to contact me off list as needed. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Thegreat" To: Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:18 PM Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an online course for medical transcription. I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it sounds interesting to me. If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? Thanks, Kate _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2117 - Release Date: 05/15/09 17:55:00 From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Sat May 16 16:39:25 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:39:25 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the two factors here. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the various demands placed on them by being in college and not being prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some responsibility for the completion of their course of study. Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > than non disabled. > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > numbers they accept. > > James Pepper > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > bcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf b.org From angie.matney at gmail.com Sat May 16 18:18:34 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 14:18:34 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <4a0f0376.85c2f10a.1c01.0c27@mx.google.com> Good post. But if post-secondary institutions apply lower standards to applicants with disabilities and then expect them to perform to the same standards as others once they are admitted, we definitely have a problem. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of McCarthy, Jim Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 12:39 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the two factors here. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the various demands placed on them by being in college and not being prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some responsibility for the completion of their course of study. Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > than non disabled. > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > numbers they accept. > > James Pepper > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > bcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf b.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From shamaniclivin1281 at hotmail.com Sat May 16 19:14:55 2009 From: shamaniclivin1281 at hotmail.com (Kate Thegreat) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 15:14:55 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the feedback here. I will have to think on some of this a little bit more. I had read some things about paralegals often being trained right on the job. Is this a myth then, or is it just harder, in general, for a blind person to be trusted to learn on the job--of course, not for any other reason than ignorance on the part of employers, but still? Kate > From: blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > Subject: blindlaw Digest, Vol 60, Issue 12 > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:00:05 -0500 > > Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: LSAT Accommodations? (James Pepper) > 2. paralegal jobs (Kate Thegreat) > 3. Re: LSAT Accommodations? (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) > 4. Re: paralegal jobs (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) > 5. Re: LSAT Accommodations? (James Pepper) > 6. Re: paralegal jobs (A S) > 7. Re: paralegal jobs (Steve P. Deeley) > 8. Re: LSAT Accommodations? (McCarthy, Jim) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:01:44 -0500 > From: James Pepper > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I remember seeing a form out of the college board where you place the > device used to take the test and I saw it last year on their website. > > Yes here is a spreadsheet from the Census on the numbers of people > with degrees in relation to the population laid out by state. there > are pretty high percentages of the blind with 2 years or less of > college versus graduates relative to the sighted population. Even if > you figure the amounts within the classes, there is still something > wrong in Denmark! > > James Pepper > > . > > On 5/15/09, Haben Girma wrote: > > > > Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a > > university's student body is disabled? > > > > Haben > > > > James Pepper wrote: > > > > > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does > > > it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > > > schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is > > both > > > of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > > > without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a > > > great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > students > > > who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > > > realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be > > considered > > > discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is not > > > as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > > > course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, > > > since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. But > > > if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a > > > college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be > > > judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > > > population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > > > students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a > > lot > > > more than non disabled. > > > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they > > > have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept > > the > > > blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but > > > they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > > > > > > James Pepper > > > _______________________________________________ > > > blindlaw mailing list > > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Copy of dt_acs_2006_est_g00__data1.xls > Type: application/vnd.ms-excel > Size: 68608 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:18:33 -0400 > From: Kate Thegreat > Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an online course for medical transcription. > > > > I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. > > > > I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it sounds interesting to me. > > > > If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kate > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 23:21:45 -0700 > From: > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's > fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled > students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the various > demands placed on them by being in college and not being prepared to meet > the demands. While I am a strong supporter of reasonable accommodations I > believe that the students need to take some responsibility for the > completion of their course of study. Matriculation is not automatic for > disabled students or the general college population and of course is not > guaranteed upon acceptance. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Pepper" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does > > it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > > schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is > > both > > of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > > without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a > > great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > students > > who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > > realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be > > considered > > discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is not > > as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > > course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, > > since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. But > > if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a > > college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be > > judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > > population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > > students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a > > lot > > more than non disabled. > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they > > have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept > > the > > blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but > > they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > > > > James Pepper > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 00:01:02 -0700 > From: > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Kate, > I am a totally blind paralegal in California. This is a career change after > having done social work and community organizing for many years. To become a > paralegal for a law firm in most states it is recommended that you go > through a paralegal training program. If you have not had extensive legal > experience I would recommend a program that is live rather then a > correspondence based program. In most paralegal programs offered through > colleges or universities an internship is part of the program. > I actually free-lance which means I work for various attorneys on an as > needed basis. I mostly work for small firms or solo practitioners that don't > require a full-time paralegal. I am not sure that there are that many blind > paralegals in the U..S. and I am trying to collect some data about this > question and to find other blind paralegals to find out their circumstances. > While it is much easier today with on-line legal research and forms software > program there are some duties in some circumstances that don't lend > themselves to a totally blind person doing all jobs. Examples would apply > where it is necessary for a paralegal to review many handwritten documents > as part of trial exhibits or information that is provided by a client. This > issue came up when I was in the paralegal program when I interviewed with > the local public defender's office as interns would assist the lawyers in > court and would frequently need to read handwritten police reports. > Entering the profession I had some advantages as much of my experience as a > social worker was involving law related issues such as court-ordered > treatment when I was a therapist, providing alternative sentencing > recommendations for criminal defense attorneys, representing clients in > Social Security appeals and other administrative law hearings and > administering a caseload of workers compensation clients assigned to private > rehabilitation services. I have found that working with the attorneys that I > have we have been able to develop innovative methods of dealing with various > issues and much of the work that I do is done on-line and submitted to the > attorneys electronically. If needed I will travel to the firm or attorney > that I am working with to meet clients and will to other duties as needed > including filing of paperwork with the court. Here in California paralegals > who have completed a paralegal training program and who meet other > requirements including posting of a surety bond with the county where are > working can prepare documents for the general public as a "legal Document > Assistant" or an Unlawful detainer Assistant" which in other states is known > more commonly as land-lord tenant matters. > I hope this information helps and you may feel free to contact me off list > as needed. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kate Thegreat" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:18 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > > > > Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years > old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background > is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability > habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an > online course for medical transcription. > > > > I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor > at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. > > > > I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it > sounds interesting to me. > > > > If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a > law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kate > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 02:17:40 -0500 > From: James Pepper > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > The proportions are not even close. About 1/4 of all students graduate in > the regular population but the ratio is 1/14th of the sensory impaired > graduate and that includes people who are deaf. There is something going > wrong around here! > > James Pepper > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 14:31:55 +0000 > From: A S > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > > Good luck, Kate - > > I say go for it, but cautiosuly. I am a paralegal by training with my AS in legal assisting and my BS in legal studies. I come with legal experience and many recommendations, yet have been unable to get a job of any sort in the legal field, even with the help of Voc Rehab, since graduating four years ago. I was told prior to my educatin that it would be difficult to find work, especially in the private sector, and they were right. I do still believe that if you're at the right place at the right time and have the right skills, it can happen. > > Annette > > > > From: shamaniclivin1281 at hotmail.com > > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:18:33 -0400 > > Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > > > > > > Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an online course for medical transcription. > > > > > > > > I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. > > > > > > > > I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it sounds interesting to me. > > > > > > > > If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Kate > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/booboobuttken%40hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 11:37:02 -0400 > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Message-ID: <92B6F8B4780740FE89AEF7E663A414F6 at StevePC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hey Chuck: > > What would you say are your main job duties and how do you perform them? > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 3:01 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > > > Hi Kate, > I am a totally blind paralegal in California. This is a career change after > having done social work and community organizing for many years. To become a > paralegal for a law firm in most states it is recommended that you go > through a paralegal training program. If you have not had extensive legal > experience I would recommend a program that is live rather then a > correspondence based program. In most paralegal programs offered through > colleges or universities an internship is part of the program. > I actually free-lance which means I work for various attorneys on an as > needed basis. I mostly work for small firms or solo practitioners that don't > require a full-time paralegal. I am not sure that there are that many blind > paralegals in the U..S. and I am trying to collect some data about this > question and to find other blind paralegals to find out their circumstances. > While it is much easier today with on-line legal research and forms software > program there are some duties in some circumstances that don't lend > themselves to a totally blind person doing all jobs. Examples would apply > where it is necessary for a paralegal to review many handwritten documents > as part of trial exhibits or information that is provided by a client. This > issue came up when I was in the paralegal program when I interviewed with > the local public defender's office as interns would assist the lawyers in > court and would frequently need to read handwritten police reports. > Entering the profession I had some advantages as much of my experience as a > social worker was involving law related issues such as court-ordered > treatment when I was a therapist, providing alternative sentencing > recommendations for criminal defense attorneys, representing clients in > Social Security appeals and other administrative law hearings and > administering a caseload of workers compensation clients assigned to private > rehabilitation services. I have found that working with the attorneys that I > have we have been able to develop innovative methods of dealing with various > issues and much of the work that I do is done on-line and submitted to the > attorneys electronically. If needed I will travel to the firm or attorney > that I am working with to meet clients and will to other duties as needed > including filing of paperwork with the court. Here in California paralegals > who have completed a paralegal training program and who meet other > requirements including posting of a surety bond with the county where are > working can prepare documents for the general public as a "legal Document > Assistant" or an Unlawful detainer Assistant" which in other states is known > more commonly as land-lord tenant matters. > I hope this information helps and you may feel free to contact me off list > as needed. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kate Thegreat" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:18 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > > > > Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years > old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background > is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability > habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an > online course for medical transcription. > > > > I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor > at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. > > > > I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it > sounds interesting to me. > > > > If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a > law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kate > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2117 - Release Date: 05/15/09 > 17:55:00 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:39:25 -0400 > From: "McCarthy, Jim" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Message-ID: > <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34 at FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg > problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish > college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because > they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I > think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to > pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed > institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do > more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. > It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the > two factors here. > Jim McCarthy > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's > fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled > students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the > various demands placed on them by being in college and not being > prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of > reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some > responsibility for the completion of their course of study. > Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general > college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Pepper" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > > > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think > > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > > > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > > > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from > > > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle > > > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot > > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > > > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > > than non disabled. > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > > numbers they accept. > > > > James Pepper > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > > bcglobal.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf > b.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 60, Issue 12 > **************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® goes with you. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Mobile1_052009 From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Sat May 16 22:14:59 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 18:14:59 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <4a0f0376.85c2f10a.1c01.0c27@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA42@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Angie, please don't even imagine that I want schools to accept less from blind students. I fundamentally believe that when blind students get to college, the schools they attend should assume they are ready for the experience. If in fact they are not, they should fail out just like anyone else would. Jim -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:19 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Good post. But if post-secondary institutions apply lower standards to applicants with disabilities and then expect them to perform to the same standards as others once they are admitted, we definitely have a problem. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of McCarthy, Jim Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 12:39 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the two factors here. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the various demands placed on them by being in college and not being prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some responsibility for the completion of their course of study. Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > than non disabled. > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > numbers they accept. > > James Pepper > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > bcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf b.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%4 0gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf b.org From angie.matney at gmail.com Sat May 16 23:16:28 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 19:16:28 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA42@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <4a0f0376.85c2f10a.1c01.0c27@mx.google.com> <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA42@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <4a0f4949.02c3f10a.4cd7.2401@mx.google.com> Hi Jim, No, I never thought you felt that way. Sorry if my post implied that. I totally agree with you here. In my mind, there were three different issues: general student preparedness, university accommodation, and universities applying standards to blind students that are not only inconsistent with standards applied to others but are internally inconsistent as well. That was what I was trying to say. But I've already gotten started with bar review, so I was probably unclear. I didn't think you were proposing that blind students be held to lower standards. Sorry. OK: Back to Property. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of McCarthy, Jim Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 6:15 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Angie, please don't even imagine that I want schools to accept less from blind students. I fundamentally believe that when blind students get to college, the schools they attend should assume they are ready for the experience. If in fact they are not, they should fail out just like anyone else would. Jim -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:19 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Good post. But if post-secondary institutions apply lower standards to applicants with disabilities and then expect them to perform to the same standards as others once they are admitted, we definitely have a problem. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of McCarthy, Jim Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 12:39 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the two factors here. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the various demands placed on them by being in college and not being prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some responsibility for the completion of their course of study. Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > than non disabled. > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > numbers they accept. > > James Pepper > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > bcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf b.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%4 0gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf b.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat May 16 23:51:50 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 16:51:50 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs In-Reply-To: <92B6F8B4780740FE89AEF7E663A414F6@StevePC> References: <92B6F8B4780740FE89AEF7E663A414F6@StevePC> Message-ID: <54EE5CF01D244796B019EBCD2B8DC540@spike> I would say that the duties fall in to three main areas. They are legal research which I usually do on line using various legal data bases depending on what the hiring attorney uses and provides me access to as I generally am using their research accounts. This would mean accessing data bases such as Westlaw or Lexus/Nexus. drafting of documents or letters or documents which is done on the computer The third area involves public relations and networking as I am an independent contractor. This means that I need to sell myself and the services that I can offer. As much of the work falls outside of the traditional law job I will meet with various groups or individuals or groups as with my social work background I do consulting for nonprofit organizations regarding administrative matters and grant writing or other types of funding procurement. This also involves assisting with analysis of proposed legislation and public policy issues. I stay connected with various elements of the community and provide necessary networking for various groups or individuals. As my role falls in to a consultant role much of the time it is difficult to be more specific as much depends on the particular project. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 8:37 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Hey Chuck: What would you say are your main job duties and how do you perform them? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 3:01 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Hi Kate, I am a totally blind paralegal in California. This is a career change after having done social work and community organizing for many years. To become a paralegal for a law firm in most states it is recommended that you go through a paralegal training program. If you have not had extensive legal experience I would recommend a program that is live rather then a correspondence based program. In most paralegal programs offered through colleges or universities an internship is part of the program. I actually free-lance which means I work for various attorneys on an as needed basis. I mostly work for small firms or solo practitioners that don't require a full-time paralegal. I am not sure that there are that many blind paralegals in the U..S. and I am trying to collect some data about this question and to find other blind paralegals to find out their circumstances. While it is much easier today with on-line legal research and forms software program there are some duties in some circumstances that don't lend themselves to a totally blind person doing all jobs. Examples would apply where it is necessary for a paralegal to review many handwritten documents as part of trial exhibits or information that is provided by a client. This issue came up when I was in the paralegal program when I interviewed with the local public defender's office as interns would assist the lawyers in court and would frequently need to read handwritten police reports. Entering the profession I had some advantages as much of my experience as a social worker was involving law related issues such as court-ordered treatment when I was a therapist, providing alternative sentencing recommendations for criminal defense attorneys, representing clients in Social Security appeals and other administrative law hearings and administering a caseload of workers compensation clients assigned to private rehabilitation services. I have found that working with the attorneys that I have we have been able to develop innovative methods of dealing with various issues and much of the work that I do is done on-line and submitted to the attorneys electronically. If needed I will travel to the firm or attorney that I am working with to meet clients and will to other duties as needed including filing of paperwork with the court. Here in California paralegals who have completed a paralegal training program and who meet other requirements including posting of a surety bond with the county where are working can prepare documents for the general public as a "legal Document Assistant" or an Unlawful detainer Assistant" which in other states is known more commonly as land-lord tenant matters. I hope this information helps and you may feel free to contact me off list as needed. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Thegreat" To: Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:18 PM Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an online course for medical transcription. I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it sounds interesting to me. If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? Thanks, Kate _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2117 - Release Date: 05/15/09 17:55:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun May 17 00:17:21 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 17:17:21 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2348B60BF35944678CF742D187760311@spike> While some attorneys may coose to train paralegals on the job there is an effort in many states to start to develop standards and regulate the paralegal profession. While for the most part this has been done through self-regulation as is done in many industries there is a movement in the profession to establish and develop standards to create a greater degree of professionalism. These standards are beneficial to the profession as well as the general public. There are both state and national associations of paralegals that are involved in setting standards for the profession. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Thegreat" To: Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Thanks for the feedback here. I will have to think on some of this a little bit more. I had read some things about paralegals often being trained right on the job. Is this a myth then, or is it just harder, in general, for a blind person to be trusted to learn on the job--of course, not for any other reason than ignorance on the part of employers, but still? Kate > From: blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > Subject: blindlaw Digest, Vol 60, Issue 12 > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:00:05 -0500 > > Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: LSAT Accommodations? (James Pepper) > 2. paralegal jobs (Kate Thegreat) > 3. Re: LSAT Accommodations? (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) > 4. Re: paralegal jobs (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) > 5. Re: LSAT Accommodations? (James Pepper) > 6. Re: paralegal jobs (A S) > 7. Re: paralegal jobs (Steve P. Deeley) > 8. Re: LSAT Accommodations? (McCarthy, Jim) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:01:44 -0500 > From: James Pepper > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I remember seeing a form out of the college board where you place the > device used to take the test and I saw it last year on their website. > > Yes here is a spreadsheet from the Census on the numbers of people > with degrees in relation to the population laid out by state. there > are pretty high percentages of the blind with 2 years or less of > college versus graduates relative to the sighted population. Even if > you figure the amounts within the classes, there is still something > wrong in Denmark! > > James Pepper > > . > > On 5/15/09, Haben Girma wrote: > > > > Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a > > university's student body is disabled? > > > > Haben > > > > James Pepper wrote: > > > > > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > > > does > > > it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > > > schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it > > > is > > both > > > of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > > > without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It > > > is a > > > great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > students > > > who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > > > realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be > > considered > > > discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is > > > not > > > as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > > > course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with > > > respect, > > > since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. > > > But > > > if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into > > > a > > > college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably > > > be > > > judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > > > population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > > > students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university > > > a > > lot > > > more than non disabled. > > > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > > > they > > > have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > > > accept > > the > > > blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, > > > but > > > they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > > > > > > James Pepper > > > _______________________________________________ > > > blindlaw mailing list > > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Copy of dt_acs_2006_est_g00__data1.xls > Type: application/vnd.ms-excel > Size: 68608 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:18:33 -0400 > From: Kate Thegreat > Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years > old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background > is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability > habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an > online course for medical transcription. > > > > I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my > counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at > it. > > > > I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and > it sounds interesting to me. > > > > If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a > law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kate > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 23:21:45 -0700 > From: > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's > fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled > students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the > various > demands placed on them by being in college and not being prepared to meet > the demands. While I am a strong supporter of reasonable accommodations I > believe that the students need to take some responsibility for the > completion of their course of study. Matriculation is not automatic for > disabled students or the general college population and of course is not > guaranteed upon acceptance. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Pepper" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > > does > > it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > > schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is > > both > > of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > > without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is > > a > > great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > students > > who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > > realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be > > considered > > discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is > > not > > as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > > course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with > > respect, > > since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. > > But > > if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a > > college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be > > judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > > population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > > students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a > > lot > > more than non disabled. > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > > they > > have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept > > the > > blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but > > they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > > > > James Pepper > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 00:01:02 -0700 > From: > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Kate, > I am a totally blind paralegal in California. This is a career change > after > having done social work and community organizing for many years. To become > a > paralegal for a law firm in most states it is recommended that you go > through a paralegal training program. If you have not had extensive legal > experience I would recommend a program that is live rather then a > correspondence based program. In most paralegal programs offered through > colleges or universities an internship is part of the program. > I actually free-lance which means I work for various attorneys on an as > needed basis. I mostly work for small firms or solo practitioners that > don't > require a full-time paralegal. I am not sure that there are that many > blind > paralegals in the U..S. and I am trying to collect some data about this > question and to find other blind paralegals to find out their > circumstances. > While it is much easier today with on-line legal research and forms > software > program there are some duties in some circumstances that don't lend > themselves to a totally blind person doing all jobs. Examples would apply > where it is necessary for a paralegal to review many handwritten documents > as part of trial exhibits or information that is provided by a client. > This > issue came up when I was in the paralegal program when I interviewed with > the local public defender's office as interns would assist the lawyers in > court and would frequently need to read handwritten police reports. > Entering the profession I had some advantages as much of my experience as > a > social worker was involving law related issues such as court-ordered > treatment when I was a therapist, providing alternative sentencing > recommendations for criminal defense attorneys, representing clients in > Social Security appeals and other administrative law hearings and > administering a caseload of workers compensation clients assigned to > private > rehabilitation services. I have found that working with the attorneys that > I > have we have been able to develop innovative methods of dealing with > various > issues and much of the work that I do is done on-line and submitted to the > attorneys electronically. If needed I will travel to the firm or attorney > that I am working with to meet clients and will to other duties as needed > including filing of paperwork with the court. Here in California > paralegals > who have completed a paralegal training program and who meet other > requirements including posting of a surety bond with the county where are > working can prepare documents for the general public as a "legal Document > Assistant" or an Unlawful detainer Assistant" which in other states is > known > more commonly as land-lord tenant matters. > I hope this information helps and you may feel free to contact me off list > as needed. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kate Thegreat" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:18 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > > > > Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years > old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background > is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability > habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an > online course for medical transcription. > > > > I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my > counselor > at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. > > > > I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and > it > sounds interesting to me. > > > > If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a > law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kate > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 02:17:40 -0500 > From: James Pepper > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > The proportions are not even close. About 1/4 of all students graduate in > the regular population but the ratio is 1/14th of the sensory impaired > graduate and that includes people who are deaf. There is something going > wrong around here! > > James Pepper > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 14:31:55 +0000 > From: A S > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > > Good luck, Kate - > > I say go for it, but cautiosuly. I am a paralegal by training with my AS > in legal assisting and my BS in legal studies. I come with legal > experience and many recommendations, yet have been unable to get a job of > any sort in the legal field, even with the help of Voc Rehab, since > graduating four years ago. I was told prior to my educatin that it would > be difficult to find work, especially in the private sector, and they were > right. I do still believe that if you're at the right place at the right > time and have the right skills, it can happen. > > Annette > > > > From: shamaniclivin1281 at hotmail.com > > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:18:33 -0400 > > Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > > > > > > Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 > > years old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior > > background is in various teaching capacities related to computers and > > disability habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also > > am taking an online course for medical transcription. > > > > > > > > I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my > > counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at > > it. > > > > > > > > I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and > > it sounds interesting to me. > > > > > > > > If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach > > a law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Kate > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/booboobuttken%40hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 11:37:02 -0400 > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Message-ID: <92B6F8B4780740FE89AEF7E663A414F6 at StevePC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hey Chuck: > > What would you say are your main job duties and how do you perform them? > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 3:01 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > > > Hi Kate, > I am a totally blind paralegal in California. This is a career change > after > having done social work and community organizing for many years. To become > a > paralegal for a law firm in most states it is recommended that you go > through a paralegal training program. If you have not had extensive legal > experience I would recommend a program that is live rather then a > correspondence based program. In most paralegal programs offered through > colleges or universities an internship is part of the program. > I actually free-lance which means I work for various attorneys on an as > needed basis. I mostly work for small firms or solo practitioners that > don't > require a full-time paralegal. I am not sure that there are that many > blind > paralegals in the U..S. and I am trying to collect some data about this > question and to find other blind paralegals to find out their > circumstances. > While it is much easier today with on-line legal research and forms > software > program there are some duties in some circumstances that don't lend > themselves to a totally blind person doing all jobs. Examples would apply > where it is necessary for a paralegal to review many handwritten documents > as part of trial exhibits or information that is provided by a client. > This > issue came up when I was in the paralegal program when I interviewed with > the local public defender's office as interns would assist the lawyers in > court and would frequently need to read handwritten police reports. > Entering the profession I had some advantages as much of my experience as > a > social worker was involving law related issues such as court-ordered > treatment when I was a therapist, providing alternative sentencing > recommendations for criminal defense attorneys, representing clients in > Social Security appeals and other administrative law hearings and > administering a caseload of workers compensation clients assigned to > private > rehabilitation services. I have found that working with the attorneys that > I > have we have been able to develop innovative methods of dealing with > various > issues and much of the work that I do is done on-line and submitted to the > attorneys electronically. If needed I will travel to the firm or attorney > that I am working with to meet clients and will to other duties as needed > including filing of paperwork with the court. Here in California > paralegals > who have completed a paralegal training program and who meet other > requirements including posting of a surety bond with the county where are > working can prepare documents for the general public as a "legal Document > Assistant" or an Unlawful detainer Assistant" which in other states is > known > more commonly as land-lord tenant matters. > I hope this information helps and you may feel free to contact me off list > as needed. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kate Thegreat" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:18 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs > > > > Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years > old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background > is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability > habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an > online course for medical transcription. > > > > I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my > counselor > at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. > > > > I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and > it > sounds interesting to me. > > > > If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a > law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kate > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2117 - Release Date: 05/15/09 > 17:55:00 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:39:25 -0400 > From: "McCarthy, Jim" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Message-ID: > <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34 at FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg > problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish > college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because > they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I > think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to > pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed > institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do > more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. > It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the > two factors here. > Jim McCarthy > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's > fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled > students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the > various demands placed on them by being in college and not being > prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of > reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some > responsibility for the completion of their course of study. > Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general > college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Pepper" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > > > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think > > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > > > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > > > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from > > > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle > > > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot > > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > > > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > > than non disabled. > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > > numbers they accept. > > > > James Pepper > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > > bcglobal.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf > b.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 60, Issue 12 > **************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® goes with you. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Mobile1_052009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From dandrews at visi.com Sun May 17 03:05:41 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 22:05:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34@FPNTEXCBE01.service s.local> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: Let me start by saying this is just my opinion. I also will say I work for a rehab agency. I also monitor lots of lists here, and see stories from all over the country. I think the bigger problem is that many students don't have the skills to succeed, not that they aren't getting enough or the right accommodations. People can't take notes independently, can't read Braille, can't travel independently, don't know how to use human readers, and on and on. And some of the reason for that is accommodations to willingly granted. It would be interesting to see the failure rate back in the 60's and 70;'s before we had ADA etc. Dave At 11:39 AM 5/16/2009, you wrote: >I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg >problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish >college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because >they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I >think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to >pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed >institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do >more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. >It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the >two factors here. >Jim McCarthy > >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > >Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's >fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled >students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the >various demands placed on them by being in college and not being >prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of >reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some >responsibility for the completion of their course of study. >Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general >college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. >Chuck >----- Original Message ----- >From: "James Pepper" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > > > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think > > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > > > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > > > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from > > > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle > > > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot > > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > > > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > > than non disabled. > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > > numbers they accept. > > > > James Pepper > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > > bcglobal.net > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf >b.org > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4080 (20090515) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com From harderlucas at yahoo.com Sun May 17 04:34:38 2009 From: harderlucas at yahoo.com (Lucas Harder) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 21:34:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Message-ID: <8615.77890.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I believe the main problem starts in primary and secondary school. Students with a disability are not expected to do as well as those without. This leads to a lack of desire from teachers and administrators to put the extra effort in the beginning to make sure that a student with a disability has the tools they will need to thrive later in life. They get labled as a person with a disability and then either they are given so many accomidations that they fly through school without actually learning anything useful, or they aren’t given the accomidations they need and eventually drop out. If we really want to work on the issue of higher ed we need to start at the beginning. In no way am I'm not saying that higher ed doesn’t have its own set of problems; it is much more that if the proper groundwork was layed then there would be fewer problems later on.   Lucas Harder Hendrix College Class of *10 harderlucas at yahoo.com   --- On Sat, 5/16/09, David Andrews wrote: From: David Andrews Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 10:05 PM Let me start by saying this is just my opinion.  I also will say I work for a rehab agency.  I also monitor lots of lists here, and see stories from all over the country.  I think the bigger problem is that many students don't have the skills to succeed, not that they aren't getting enough or the right accommodations.  People can't take notes independently, can't read Braille, can't travel independently, don't know how to use human readers, and on and on.  And some of the reason for that is accommodations to willingly granted. It would be interesting to see the failure rate back in the 60's and 70;'s before we had ADA etc. Dave At 11:39 AM 5/16/2009, you wrote: >I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg >problem.  Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish >college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because >they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so.  I >think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to >pressure the colleges and universities.  Personally, I think higher ed >institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do >more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. >It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the >two factors here. >Jim McCarthy > >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > >Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's >fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled >students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the >various demands placed on them by being in college and not being >prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of >reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some >responsibility for the completion of their course of study. >Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general >college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. >Chuck >----- Original Message ----- >From: "James Pepper" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > > > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test.  I think > > it is both of them.  This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > > > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > > > not.  It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > > not be considered discriminatory.  But your chances of graduating from > > > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > > on a regular basis.  Of course state schools are more likely to handle > > > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > > consequences of discriminiation.  But if you are competing with a lot > > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > > > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > > than non disabled. > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > > numbers they accept. > > > > James Pepper > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > > bcglobal.net > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf >b.org > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4080 (20090515) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/harderlucas%40yahoo.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun May 17 06:06:09 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 23:06:09 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <93D41DC9073F4A298A1BE77DF92B9C50@spike> Being a product of public schools in the 60's where I was the only blind student and college and grad school in the 70's and 80's where accommodations were negotiated between myself and the professors on a large university campus. The bottom line was that blind and other disabled students learned how to solve their problems and how to function independently in all facets of their education and life or they failed. Basic coping skills both for academic and nonacademic survival are a needed prerequisite to college and work and reasonable accommodation through any legislation is not going to bring about an increase of success in college or the real world of employment. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > Let me start by saying this is just my opinion. I also will say I work > for a rehab agency. I also monitor lots of lists here, and see stories > from all over the country. I think the bigger problem is that many > students don't have the skills to succeed, not that they aren't getting > enough or the right accommodations. People can't take notes > independently, can't read Braille, can't travel independently, don't know > how to use human readers, and on and on. And some of the reason for that > is accommodations to willingly granted. > > It would be interesting to see the failure rate back in the 60's and 70;'s > before we had ADA etc. > > Dave > > At 11:39 AM 5/16/2009, you wrote: >>I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg >>problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish >>college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because >>they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I >>think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to >>pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed >>institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do >>more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. >>It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the >>two factors here. >>Jim McCarthy >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >>Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM >>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >>Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's >>fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled >>students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the >>various demands placed on them by being in college and not being >>prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of >>reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some >>responsibility for the completion of their course of study. >>Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general >>college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. >>Chuck >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "James Pepper" >>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >> > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams >> > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform >> >> > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think >> > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and >> >> > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or >> >> > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >> > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >> > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you >> > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to >> > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from >> >> > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled >> > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle >> >> > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the >> > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot >> > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good >> > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your >> > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. >> > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who >> >> > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more >> > than non disabled. >> > >> > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, >> > they have gotten away with it since 1973. >> > >> > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges >> > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the >> > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the >> > numbers they accept. >> > >> > James Pepper >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s >> > bcglobal.net >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf >>b.org >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >> >> >>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>signature database 4080 (20090515) __________ >> >>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >>http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Sun May 17 06:36:27 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 23:36:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <4A0D9A99.9080605@aol.com> Message-ID: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> Hello all, Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany any non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a disability) here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law schools: "Dear Colleague: This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard timing conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The nonstandard test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test date as the corresponding standard administration. Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of this score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. The LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services explain: LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard conditions. Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated forms, accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's scores from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken under standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the LSAT should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a one-day multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school course work and examinations." -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Haben Girma Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a university's student body is disabled? Haben James Pepper wrote: > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does > it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is both > of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a > great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of students > who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be considered > discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is not > as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, > since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. But > if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a > college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be > judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot > more than non disabled. > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they > have gotten away with it since 1973. > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept the > blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but > they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > > James Pepper > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com From habnkid at aol.com Sun May 17 08:22:05 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 01:22:05 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> Message-ID: <4A0FC92D.30204@aol.com> The letter implies that the score of a disabled person on an LSAT is meaningless if it was taken in nonstandard conditions since it cannot be compared to other scores. Then are the LSAT scores of blind test takers, who request extra time, respected by law schools? They don't seem respected by the LSAC. The whole point of the LSAT is to compare one student's reasoning and comprehension skills with other prospective students. If the LSAC implies tests taken in nonstandard conditions are meaningless, then taking the LSAT, for a blind person, becomes a mere gesture. Why would a law school admit a blind student when the student's LSAT score comes with this doubt-producing letter? Haben Stephanie Enyart wrote: > Hello all, > Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany any > non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a disability) > here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law schools: > > "Dear Colleague: > This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard timing > conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The nonstandard > test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test date > as the corresponding standard administration. > Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing > conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of this > score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. The > LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services > explain: > LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated > conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard conditions. > Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated forms, > accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's scores > from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken under > standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the LSAT > should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted > once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a one-day > multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school > course work and examinations." > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Haben Girma > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a > university's student body is disabled? > > Haben > > James Pepper wrote: > >> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does >> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is >> > both > >> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not >> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a >> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >> > students > >> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they >> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >> > considered > >> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is not >> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of >> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, >> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. But >> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a >> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be >> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of >> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a >> > lot > >> more than non disabled. >> >> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they >> have gotten away with it since 1973. >> >> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept >> > the > >> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but >> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. >> >> James Pepper >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 > 0yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From everett at zufelt.ca Sun May 17 09:28:40 2009 From: everett at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 05:28:40 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <4A0FC92D.30204@aol.com> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <4A0FC92D.30204@aol.com> Message-ID: <7B992CA5-4FBB-47FD-8747-926992CE1BC4@zufelt.ca> Good morning, I am not sure about U.S. schools, I expect they have varying feelings about the LSAT. In Canada I was accepted into the one school I applied to with no problems. They look at the score 60-180, and not at the percentile score. Accommodated test takers still get a 60-180 score, just not a percentile ranking. Which is not really fair, but does make some sense based on statistical analysis, not total sense, just a little. HTH, Everett Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 17-May-09, at 4:22 AM, Haben Girma wrote: > > The letter implies that the score of a disabled person on an LSAT is > meaningless if it was taken in nonstandard conditions since it > cannot be compared to other scores. Then are the LSAT scores of > blind test takers, who request extra time, respected by law schools? > They don't seem respected by the LSAC. > > The whole point of the LSAT is to compare one student's reasoning > and comprehension skills with other prospective students. If the > LSAC implies tests taken in nonstandard conditions are meaningless, > then taking the LSAT, for a blind person, becomes a mere gesture. > Why would a law school admit a blind student when the student's LSAT > score comes with this doubt-producing letter? > > Haben > > Stephanie Enyart wrote: >> Hello all, >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will >> accompany any >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a >> disability) >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >> schools: >> >> "Dear Colleague: >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard >> timing >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The >> nonstandard >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same >> test date >> as the corresponding standard administration. >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of >> comparability of this >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be >> determined. The >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related >> Services >> explain: >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >> conditions. >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated >> forms, >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an >> individual's scores >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests >> taken under >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for >> the LSAT >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be >> granted >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >> one-day >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law >> school >> course work and examinations." >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >> university's student body is disabled? >> >> Haben >> >> James Pepper wrote: >> >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance >>> exams does >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform >>> the >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think >>> it is >>> >> both >> >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is >>> not >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. >>> It is a >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >>> >> students >> >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once >>> they >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >>> >> considered >> >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that >>> situation is not >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular >>> basis. Of >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with >>> respect, >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of >>> discriminiation. But >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get >>> into a >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will >>> probably be >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain >>> amount of >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the >>> university a >>> >> lot >> >>> more than non disabled. >>> >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of >>> profiling, they >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >>> >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges >>> accept >>> >> the >> >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the >>> population, but >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they >>> accept. >>> >>> James Pepper >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart >> %4 >> 0yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sun May 17 11:39:06 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 04:39:06 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <4A0FC92D.30204@aol.com> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <4A0FC92D.30204@aol.com> Message-ID: <20090517113906.GB4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> There is certainly an implication there, Haben, you are correct. Standard scores come generally have a confidence interval--basically a plus or minus so many points. When you add a variable, you increase the size of that margin of error. A high score is still a high score. It's just got a larger margin of error, and LSAC would not know precisely how large that margin is because they didn't bother to account for this variable. A direct comparison of a score from a test under conditions different than the normalization sample to one given under standard conditions cannot be guaranteed to be valid. Law schools know what good and bad LSAT scores look like. A given non-standard score can be either a bit worse or a bit better than the same standard score, and you can't really know which it is. That's a big deal until you simply group scores into categories such as "high", "average", and "low", with a few scores being in between these broad categories. By the time you do that, you've more than accounted for the extra variability. Joseph Math Nerd On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 01:22:05AM -0700, Haben Girma wrote: > > The letter implies that the score of a disabled person on an LSAT is > meaningless if it was taken in nonstandard conditions since it cannot be > compared to other scores. Then are the LSAT scores of blind test takers, > who request extra time, respected by law schools? They don't seem > respected by the LSAC. > > The whole point of the LSAT is to compare one student's reasoning and > comprehension skills with other prospective students. If the LSAC > implies tests taken in nonstandard conditions are meaningless, then > taking the LSAT, for a blind person, becomes a mere gesture. Why would a > law school admit a blind student when the student's LSAT score comes > with this doubt-producing letter? > > Haben > > Stephanie Enyart wrote: >> Hello all, >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany any >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a disability) >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law schools: >> >> "Dear Colleague: >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard timing >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The nonstandard >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test date >> as the corresponding standard administration. >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of this >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. The >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >> explain: >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard conditions. >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated forms, >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's scores >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken under >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the LSAT >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a one-day >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >> course work and examinations." From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sun May 17 12:16:39 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 05:16:39 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <93D41DC9073F4A298A1BE77DF92B9C50@spike> References: <93D41DC9073F4A298A1BE77DF92B9C50@spike> Message-ID: <20090517121639.GC4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> Chuck, I'd say lack of preparation and acquisition of skills needed for college accounts for a fair bit, but sometimes it just doesn't matter what you bring to the game. Sometimes, the game's been rigged, and you may not know about it until you've invested yourself. There are few coping skills that will help you if you become subject to institutionalized discrimination, the subjective and reactive application of unwritten policies, and vicious gossip and character assassination. With strong social support, tenacity in abundance, very strong skills, and the grace of God, you might survive. That's what I've been dealing with. Of course, anyone who knows me can tell you that I am a born fighter. I don't give up. More importantly, if I have to go through it, I'm going to make sure that nobody else ever has to. And yet, even I have been ready to walk away a few times. I can promise you that anyone else would have. I've learned that many people have in the past. Not one person with a disability has survived my program in six years. Sometimes, it just doesn't matter what you do, how you do it, or what skills you've got. If your faculty are determined to see you fail because you are blind, there's not much you can do until the damage is already done. I don't know how we can prepare people for that, except to have them read lots of early Federation history and all of Dr. Jernigan's more militant speeches. *grin* I'm not certain it'll help, but it's the best suggestion I've got. Joseph On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 11:06:09PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: > Being a product of public schools in the 60's where I was the only blind > student and college and grad school in the 70's and 80's where > accommodations were negotiated between myself and the professors on a > large university campus. The bottom line was that blind and other > disabled students learned how to solve their problems and how to function > independently in all facets of their education and life or they failed. > Basic coping skills both for academic and nonacademic survival are a > needed prerequisite to college and work and reasonable accommodation > through any legislation is not going to bring about an increase of > success in college or the real world of employment. > Chuck From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun May 17 14:31:40 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 10:31:40 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <93D41DC9073F4A298A1BE77DF92B9C50@spike> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <93D41DC9073F4A298A1BE77DF92B9C50@spike> Message-ID: <96705BCEB573495385D168A2793EAEA3@StevePC> When I was in college and graduate school, I contacted all my professors and asked them what books would be used in their classes. I also told them I was blind and requested they allow me to use a tape recorder for notes. In addition, I usually requested a meeting prior to classes starting just to introduce myself to them. If a problem arose during the semester, we were able to work it out. Kids today rely on others to solve their problems with professors. I got to know my professors on a level which made it possible for us to work together. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > Being a product of public schools in the 60's where I was the only blind > student and college and grad school in the 70's and 80's where > accommodations were negotiated between myself and the professors on a > large > university campus. The bottom line was that blind and other disabled > students learned how to solve their problems and how to function > independently in all facets of their education and life or they failed. > Basic coping skills both for academic and nonacademic survival are a > needed > prerequisite to college and work and reasonable accommodation through any > legislation is not going to bring about an increase of success in college > or > the real world of employment. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 8:05 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > >> Let me start by saying this is just my opinion. I also will say I work >> for a rehab agency. I also monitor lots of lists here, and see stories >> from all over the country. I think the bigger problem is that many >> students don't have the skills to succeed, not that they aren't getting >> enough or the right accommodations. People can't take notes >> independently, can't read Braille, can't travel independently, don't know >> how to use human readers, and on and on. And some of the reason for that >> is accommodations to willingly granted. >> >> It would be interesting to see the failure rate back in the 60's and >> 70;'s >> before we had ADA etc. >> >> Dave >> >> At 11:39 AM 5/16/2009, you wrote: >>>I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg >>>problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish >>>college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because >>>they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I >>>think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to >>>pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed >>>institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do >>>more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. >>>It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the >>>two factors here. >>>Jim McCarthy >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >>>Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM >>>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>> >>>Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's >>>fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled >>>students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the >>>various demands placed on them by being in college and not being >>>prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of >>>reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some >>>responsibility for the completion of their course of study. >>>Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general >>>college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. >>>Chuck >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "James Pepper" >>>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM >>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>> >>> >>> > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams >>> > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform >>> >>> > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think >>> > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and >>> >>> > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or >>> >>> > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>> > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >>> > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you >>> > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to >>> > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from >>> >>> > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled >>> > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle >>> >>> > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the >>> > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot >>> > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good >>> > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your >>> > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. >>> > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who >>> >>> > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more >>> > than non disabled. >>> > >>> > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, >>> > they have gotten away with it since 1973. >>> > >>> > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges >>> > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the >>> > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the >>> > numbers they accept. >>> > >>> > James Pepper >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > blindlaw mailing list >>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s >>> > bcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>blindlaw mailing list >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>blindlaw: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf >>>b.org >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>blindlaw mailing list >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>blindlaw: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >>> >>> >>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>>signature database 4080 (20090515) __________ >>> >>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >>> >>>http://www.eset.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun May 17 14:33:10 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 10:33:10 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs In-Reply-To: <54EE5CF01D244796B019EBCD2B8DC540@spike> References: <92B6F8B4780740FE89AEF7E663A414F6@StevePC> <54EE5CF01D244796B019EBCD2B8DC540@spike> Message-ID: <26C1603C45944DC1839B590FA3B32E72@StevePC> Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 7:51 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs I would say that the duties fall in to three main areas. They are legal research which I usually do on line using various legal data bases depending on what the hiring attorney uses and provides me access to as I generally am using their research accounts. This would mean accessing data bases such as Westlaw or Lexus/Nexus. drafting of documents or letters or documents which is done on the computer The third area involves public relations and networking as I am an independent contractor. This means that I need to sell myself and the services that I can offer. As much of the work falls outside of the traditional law job I will meet with various groups or individuals or groups as with my social work background I do consulting for nonprofit organizations regarding administrative matters and grant writing or other types of funding procurement. This also involves assisting with analysis of proposed legislation and public policy issues. I stay connected with various elements of the community and provide necessary networking for various groups or individuals. As my role falls in to a consultant role much of the time it is difficult to be more specific as much depends on the particular project. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 8:37 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Hey Chuck: What would you say are your main job duties and how do you perform them? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 3:01 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Hi Kate, I am a totally blind paralegal in California. This is a career change after having done social work and community organizing for many years. To become a paralegal for a law firm in most states it is recommended that you go through a paralegal training program. If you have not had extensive legal experience I would recommend a program that is live rather then a correspondence based program. In most paralegal programs offered through colleges or universities an internship is part of the program. I actually free-lance which means I work for various attorneys on an as needed basis. I mostly work for small firms or solo practitioners that don't require a full-time paralegal. I am not sure that there are that many blind paralegals in the U..S. and I am trying to collect some data about this question and to find other blind paralegals to find out their circumstances. While it is much easier today with on-line legal research and forms software program there are some duties in some circumstances that don't lend themselves to a totally blind person doing all jobs. Examples would apply where it is necessary for a paralegal to review many handwritten documents as part of trial exhibits or information that is provided by a client. This issue came up when I was in the paralegal program when I interviewed with the local public defender's office as interns would assist the lawyers in court and would frequently need to read handwritten police reports. Entering the profession I had some advantages as much of my experience as a social worker was involving law related issues such as court-ordered treatment when I was a therapist, providing alternative sentencing recommendations for criminal defense attorneys, representing clients in Social Security appeals and other administrative law hearings and administering a caseload of workers compensation clients assigned to private rehabilitation services. I have found that working with the attorneys that I have we have been able to develop innovative methods of dealing with various issues and much of the work that I do is done on-line and submitted to the attorneys electronically. If needed I will travel to the firm or attorney that I am working with to meet clients and will to other duties as needed including filing of paperwork with the court. Here in California paralegals who have completed a paralegal training program and who meet other requirements including posting of a surety bond with the county where are working can prepare documents for the general public as a "legal Document Assistant" or an Unlawful detainer Assistant" which in other states is known more commonly as land-lord tenant matters. I hope this information helps and you may feel free to contact me off list as needed. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Thegreat" To: Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:18 PM Subject: [blindlaw] paralegal jobs Is it possible to become a paralegal if I am totally blind? I am 28 years old. I have a bachelor's degree in nutrition. A lot of my prior background is in various teaching capacities related to computers and disability habilitation. Currently, I write for the local paper. I also am taking an online course for medical transcription. I am not terribly interested in the medical transcription, but my counselor at the state agency for the blind had suggested I'd be good at it. I looked at some explanations of the type of work that paralegals do and it sounds interesting to me. If this job is possible for a blind person to do, how does one approach a law firm in order to get a shadowing experience? Thanks, Kate _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2117 - Release Date: 05/15/09 17:55:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00 From rjtlawfirm at yahoo.com Sun May 17 15:09:12 2009 From: rjtlawfirm at yahoo.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 08:09:12 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: One possible solution might be to begin at the beginning; let the NFB establish a working group to meet with college and university representatives to commence an ongoing dialog on the process of accommodation as it relates to blind/visually impaired students and/or applicants. Such an ongoing dialog might be helpful, especially to the extent that it gets colleges away from the notion of "one glove fits all" approach to accommodation. If there was ever a place for the full functioning of the "interactive process" it is in the university settting. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 8:06 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Let me start by saying this is just my opinion. I also will say I work for a rehab agency. I also monitor lots of lists here, and see stories from all over the country. I think the bigger problem is that many students don't have the skills to succeed, not that they aren't getting enough or the right accommodations. People can't take notes independently, can't read Braille, can't travel independently, don't know how to use human readers, and on and on. And some of the reason for that is accommodations to willingly granted. It would be interesting to see the failure rate back in the 60's and 70;'s before we had ADA etc. Dave At 11:39 AM 5/16/2009, you wrote: >I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg >problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish >college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because >they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I >think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to >pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed >institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do >more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. >It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the >two factors here. >Jim McCarthy > >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > >Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's >fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled >students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the >various demands placed on them by being in college and not being >prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of >reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some >responsibility for the completion of their course of study. >Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general >college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. >Chuck >----- Original Message ----- >From: "James Pepper" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > > > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think > > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > > > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > > > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from > > > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle > > > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot > > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > > > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > > than non disabled. > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > > numbers they accept. > > > > James Pepper > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > > bcglobal.net > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf >b.org > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.c om > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4080 (20090515) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjtlawfirm%40yahoo .com From shamaniclivin1281 at hotmail.com Sun May 17 19:10:04 2009 From: shamaniclivin1281 at hotmail.com (Kate Thegreat) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 15:10:04 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just my two cents on this topic... I ended up finally losing all my vision in junior high school after a gradual loss over the years. As soon as large print books were no longer an option for me that particular year, I was essentialy forced into a situation where I was not allowed to take the initiative to help myself--I wasn't given any options or say in how to handle anything that came up. My parents, teachers, and guidance counselors took over and didn't include me in their meetings. They knew what was best for me, supposedly. I was labeled as a "bad" kid at the time because I really rebelled against the control they took over my life. I had always been a very autonomous, creative kid and I didn't like how they were handling things. After a year of fighting a one-woman battle against all those adults who "knew better" they finally mentally and emotionally cornered me and I had no way out except to back down and allow them to do what they wanted. It was difficult because I really honestly lost my sense of empowerment and autonomy from that point through the end of high school. That particular year in junior high was a really, really intense year, and they would not allow me to be a part of my own life transition and resolve. I was about 13 at the time and a perfect age to be a part of the solution to the dilemma. I never have been certain why they taught me to solely rely on an aide who took notes for me, communicated with my teachers for me, and read my homework to me. I wanted to learn the skills of using tape recorders, laptop, and all the like in order to be independent, but I was literally held back from doing that by the people who should have been promoting that type of initiative in me. Once I got to college, I didn't have too much difficulty taking initiative, but at that point the sense of insecurity, doubt and overall powerlessness that the whole junior high and high school experience had etched into me, really reeked havoc in all areas of my life. I felt less able, less creative, less empowered and less of a lot of things. I managed to get through purely on my type A, perfectionistic drive, but college was honestly a blur and it isn't a terribly great and memorable time in my life. It's taken me until just recently to really learn how to take control of my own life again instead of only theoretically knowing how to do it, but still somehow mentally stalling as if someone else is going to come hold my hand and tell me how to live my life. So I completely agree that kids need to be helped early on to learn the skills and have those things reinforced before they are dumped into the big pond called university. That is what makes the difference between a college graduate with a disability and a college drop out, or even a college survivor with a disability. Kate _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun May 17 21:23:37 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 17:23:37 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F2DF26327E340DCBC2E714DBE7D549A@StevePC> When a student takes his or her own notes, the person knows what is important to them. I don't understand how a person can rely on a note taker who will determine what is important for the student to know?? You sound like a real fantastic person. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Thegreat" To: Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Just my two cents on this topic... I ended up finally losing all my vision in junior high school after a gradual loss over the years. As soon as large print books were no longer an option for me that particular year, I was essentialy forced into a situation where I was not allowed to take the initiative to help myself--I wasn't given any options or say in how to handle anything that came up. My parents, teachers, and guidance counselors took over and didn't include me in their meetings. They knew what was best for me, supposedly. I was labeled as a "bad" kid at the time because I really rebelled against the control they took over my life. I had always been a very autonomous, creative kid and I didn't like how they were handling things. After a year of fighting a one-woman battle against all those adults who "knew better" they finally mentally and emotionally cornered me and I had no way out except to back down and allow them to do what they wanted. It was difficult because I really honestly lost my sense of empowerment and autonomy from that point through the end of high school. That particular year in junior high was a really, really intense year, and they would not allow me to be a part of my own life transition and resolve. I was about 13 at the time and a perfect age to be a part of the solution to the dilemma. I never have been certain why they taught me to solely rely on an aide who took notes for me, communicated with my teachers for me, and read my homework to me. I wanted to learn the skills of using tape recorders, laptop, and all the like in order to be independent, but I was literally held back from doing that by the people who should have been promoting that type of initiative in me. Once I got to college, I didn't have too much difficulty taking initiative, but at that point the sense of insecurity, doubt and overall powerlessness that the whole junior high and high school experience had etched into me, really reeked havoc in all areas of my life. I felt less able, less creative, less empowered and less of a lot of things. I managed to get through purely on my type A, perfectionistic drive, but college was honestly a blur and it isn't a terribly great and memorable time in my life. It's taken me until just recently to really learn how to take control of my own life again instead of only theoretically knowing how to do it, but still somehow mentally stalling as if someone else is going to come hold my hand and tell me how to live my life. So I completely agree that kids need to be helped early on to learn the skills and have those things reinforced before they are dumped into the big pond called university. That is what makes the difference between a college graduate with a disability and a college drop out, or even a college survivor with a disability. Kate _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 17:05:00 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon May 18 03:03:24 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 20:03:24 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration In-Reply-To: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> Message-ID: <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra time accommodations if it is at all possible. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration > Hello all, > Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany any > non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a disability) > here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law > schools: > > "Dear Colleague: > This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard timing > conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The nonstandard > test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test > date > as the corresponding standard administration. > Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing > conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of > this > score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. The > LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services > explain: > LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated > conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard > conditions. > Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated forms, > accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's > scores > from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken > under > standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the > LSAT > should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted > once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a > one-day > multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school > course work and examinations." > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Haben Girma > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a > university's student body is disabled? > > Haben > > James Pepper wrote: >> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does >> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is > both >> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not >> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a >> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > students >> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they >> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be > considered >> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is >> not >> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of >> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, >> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. >> But >> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a >> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be >> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of >> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a > lot >> more than non disabled. >> >> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they >> have gotten away with it since 1973. >> >> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept > the >> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but >> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. >> >> James Pepper >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 > 0yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon May 18 03:11:23 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 20:11:23 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <20090517121639.GC4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <93D41DC9073F4A298A1BE77DF92B9C50@spike> <20090517121639.GC4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: that's the point when all else has failed and you have your documentation it becomes litigation time. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > Chuck, > > I'd say lack of preparation and acquisition of skills needed for college > accounts for a fair bit, but sometimes it just doesn't matter what you > bring to the game. Sometimes, the game's been rigged, and you may not > know about it until you've invested yourself. > > There are few coping skills that will help you if you become subject to > institutionalized discrimination, the subjective and reactive application > of unwritten policies, and vicious gossip and character assassination. > With strong social support, tenacity in abundance, very strong skills, and > the grace of God, you might survive. > > That's what I've been dealing with. Of course, anyone who knows me can > tell you that I am a born fighter. I don't give up. More importantly, if > I have to go through it, I'm going to make sure that nobody else ever has > to. And yet, even I have been ready to walk away a few times. I can > promise you that anyone else would have. I've learned that many people > have in the past. Not one person with a disability has survived my > program in six years. > > Sometimes, it just doesn't matter what you do, how you do it, or what > skills you've got. If your faculty are determined to see you fail because > you are blind, there's not much you can do until the damage is already > done. > > I don't know how we can prepare people for that, except to have them read > lots of early Federation history and all of Dr. Jernigan's more militant > speeches. *grin* I'm not certain it'll help, but it's the best > suggestion I've got. > > Joseph > > > On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 11:06:09PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >> Being a product of public schools in the 60's where I was the only blind >> student and college and grad school in the 70's and 80's where >> accommodations were negotiated between myself and the professors on a >> large university campus. The bottom line was that blind and other >> disabled students learned how to solve their problems and how to function >> independently in all facets of their education and life or they failed. >> Basic coping skills both for academic and nonacademic survival are a >> needed prerequisite to college and work and reasonable accommodation >> through any legislation is not going to bring about an increase of >> success in college or the real world of employment. >> Chuck > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon May 18 03:29:24 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 20:29:24 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <96705BCEB573495385D168A2793EAEA3@StevePC> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BCFDA34@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><93D41DC9073F4A298A1BE77DF92B9C50@spike> <96705BCEB573495385D168A2793EAEA3@StevePC> Message-ID: I had the same experiences with them and as a result was able to develop more of a rapport with some of them which came in handy later in my professional life. I did get accommodation from one in grad school when I had typed a paper on a typewriter with a cartridge ribbon that I did not know had run out mid way through the paper. Therefore, for part of the paper the only thing that showed was impressions. The professor had his secretary write it in from the impressions under the light as it looked like a stencil so I did not have to rewrite it. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 7:31 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > When I was in college and graduate school, I contacted all my professors > and asked them what books would be used in their classes. I also told > them I was blind and requested they allow me to use a tape recorder for > notes. In addition, I usually requested a meeting prior to classes > starting just to introduce myself to them. If a problem arose during the > semester, we were able to work it out. Kids today rely on others to solve > their problems with professors. I got to know my professors on a level > which made it possible for us to work together. > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 2:06 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > >> Being a product of public schools in the 60's where I was the only blind >> student and college and grad school in the 70's and 80's where >> accommodations were negotiated between myself and the professors on a >> large >> university campus. The bottom line was that blind and other disabled >> students learned how to solve their problems and how to function >> independently in all facets of their education and life or they failed. >> Basic coping skills both for academic and nonacademic survival are a >> needed >> prerequisite to college and work and reasonable accommodation through any >> legislation is not going to bring about an increase of success in college >> or >> the real world of employment. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "David Andrews" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 8:05 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >>> Let me start by saying this is just my opinion. I also will say I work >>> for a rehab agency. I also monitor lots of lists here, and see stories >>> from all over the country. I think the bigger problem is that many >>> students don't have the skills to succeed, not that they aren't getting >>> enough or the right accommodations. People can't take notes >>> independently, can't read Braille, can't travel independently, don't >>> know >>> how to use human readers, and on and on. And some of the reason for >>> that >>> is accommodations to willingly granted. >>> >>> It would be interesting to see the failure rate back in the 60's and >>> 70;'s >>> before we had ADA etc. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> At 11:39 AM 5/16/2009, you wrote: >>>>I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg >>>>problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish >>>>college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because >>>>they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I >>>>think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to >>>>pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed >>>>institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do >>>>more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. >>>>It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the >>>>two factors here. >>>>Jim McCarthy >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >>>>Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM >>>>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>>> >>>>Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's >>>>fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled >>>>students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the >>>>various demands placed on them by being in college and not being >>>>prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of >>>>reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some >>>>responsibility for the completion of their course of study. >>>>Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general >>>>college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. >>>>Chuck >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "James Pepper" >>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM >>>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>>> >>>> >>>> > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams >>>> > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they >>>> > inform >>>> >>>> > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think >>>> > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled >>>> > and >>>> >>>> > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled >>>> > or >>>> >>>> > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>>> > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >>>> > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you >>>> > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to >>>> > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating >>>> > from >>>> >>>> > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled >>>> > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to >>>> > handle >>>> >>>> > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the >>>> > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot >>>> > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good >>>> > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your >>>> > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. >>>> > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students >>>> > who >>>> >>>> > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more >>>> > than non disabled. >>>> > >>>> > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, >>>> > they have gotten away with it since 1973. >>>> > >>>> > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges >>>> > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the >>>> > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the >>>> > numbers they accept. >>>> > >>>> > James Pepper >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > blindlaw mailing list >>>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> > blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s >>>> > bcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>blindlaw mailing list >>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>blindlaw: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf >>>>b.org >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>blindlaw mailing list >>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>blindlaw: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >>>> >>>> >>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>>>signature database 4080 (20090515) __________ >>>> >>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >>>> >>>>http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2118 - Release Date: 05/16/09 > 17:05:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon May 18 03:44:01 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 20:44:01 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <82861DB6AF504E62805E41613A8118C1@spike> Unfortunately this mistake is made often by parents and school districts. School districts in many instances operate on the premise of what is most expedient for the district is best for the student although this is not the law. Unfortunately, many parents of blind children are the child's own worst enemy as they are over-protective and guilt-ridden over their child's blindness. When growing up I was forced by my parents to advocate for myself but I was well aware of the struggles that many of my friends that were blind whent through due to over-protective families and noncompliant school distrticts. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Thegreat" To: Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 12:10 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? Just my two cents on this topic... I ended up finally losing all my vision in junior high school after a gradual loss over the years. As soon as large print books were no longer an option for me that particular year, I was essentialy forced into a situation where I was not allowed to take the initiative to help myself--I wasn't given any options or say in how to handle anything that came up. My parents, teachers, and guidance counselors took over and didn't include me in their meetings. They knew what was best for me, supposedly. I was labeled as a "bad" kid at the time because I really rebelled against the control they took over my life. I had always been a very autonomous, creative kid and I didn't like how they were handling things. After a year of fighting a one-woman battle against all those adults who "knew better" they finally mentally and emotionally cornered me and I had no way out except to back down and allow them to do what they wanted. It was difficult because I really honestly lost my sense of empowerment and autonomy from that point through the end of high school. That particular year in junior high was a really, really intense year, and they would not allow me to be a part of my own life transition and resolve. I was about 13 at the time and a perfect age to be a part of the solution to the dilemma. I never have been certain why they taught me to solely rely on an aide who took notes for me, communicated with my teachers for me, and read my homework to me. I wanted to learn the skills of using tape recorders, laptop, and all the like in order to be independent, but I was literally held back from doing that by the people who should have been promoting that type of initiative in me. Once I got to college, I didn't have too much difficulty taking initiative, but at that point the sense of insecurity, doubt and overall powerlessness that the whole junior high and high school experience had etched into me, really reeked havoc in all areas of my life. I felt less able, less creative, less empowered and less of a lot of things. I managed to get through purely on my type A, perfectionistic drive, but college was honestly a blur and it isn't a terribly great and memorable time in my life. It's taken me until just recently to really learn how to take control of my own life again instead of only theoretically knowing how to do it, but still somehow mentally stalling as if someone else is going to come hold my hand and tell me how to live my life. So I completely agree that kids need to be helped early on to learn the skills and have those things reinforced before they are dumped into the big pond called university. That is what makes the difference between a college graduate with a disability and a college drop out, or even a college survivor with a disability. Kate _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon May 18 08:16:03 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 01:16:03 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration In-Reply-To: <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> Message-ID: <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> I don't see that as entirely practical. The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they can do things they cannot. I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing on the "real world". Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on practice exams. Joseph On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: > It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra > time accommodations if it is at all possible. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" > > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSATadministration > > >> Hello all, >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany any >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a disability) >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >> schools: >> >> "Dear Colleague: >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard timing >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The nonstandard >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test >> date >> as the corresponding standard administration. >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of >> this >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. The >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >> explain: >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >> conditions. >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated forms, >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >> scores >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >> under >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the >> LSAT >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >> one-day >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >> course work and examinations." >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >> university's student body is disabled? >> >> Haben >> >> James Pepper wrote: >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is >> both >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >> students >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >> considered >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >>> is not >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. >>> But >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a >> lot >>> more than non disabled. >>> >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >>> >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept >> the >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. >>> >>> James Pepper >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >> 0yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon May 18 08:42:07 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 01:42:07 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: References: <20090517121639.GC4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <20090518084207.GJ4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> In a nutshell, we're talking about student teaching with every school district within reach having been "warned" about me and the "legal issues" surrounding me. None are willing to offer me a field placement as a result. (I can prove the action in one district, a pattern response from all districts, and a specific explanation as to why I am unwelcome in one of them.) I've been told by the DOE Office for Civil Rights that as long as I have received "passing" grades, it is essentially impossible to prove damages, despite the fact that I'll not be accepted into any field placements as a student teacher, and the districts will refuse to hire me. Add that to the fact that it's a state university and there are tort limitations. One attorney expressed interest. He wanted either $450/hr plus expenses in advance, or expenses in advance plus about 70-80% on contingency. He would begin by filing lawsuits against several people and entities that had neither knowledge of nor responsibility for what had happened, in addition to the university. The net effect would be to alienate all support I had (including the NFB) and end any chance of educating the university so that similar abuse did not happen to others. The amount of money I would receive from the suit would be less than the cost of tuition, let alone my financial aid loans. In addition, I would still be unable to be employed in the field and with no additional training. I concluded this litigator's top priority was not justice, and I declined his offer of representation. As I said, sometimes the system is rigged. Joseph On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:11:23PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: > that's the point when all else has failed and you have your documentation > it becomes litigation time. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 5:16 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > >> Chuck, >> >> I'd say lack of preparation and acquisition of skills needed for >> college accounts for a fair bit, but sometimes it just doesn't matter >> what you bring to the game. Sometimes, the game's been rigged, and you >> may not know about it until you've invested yourself. >> >> There are few coping skills that will help you if you become subject to >> institutionalized discrimination, the subjective and reactive >> application of unwritten policies, and vicious gossip and character >> assassination. With strong social support, tenacity in abundance, very >> strong skills, and the grace of God, you might survive. >> >> That's what I've been dealing with. Of course, anyone who knows me can >> tell you that I am a born fighter. I don't give up. More importantly, >> if I have to go through it, I'm going to make sure that nobody else >> ever has to. And yet, even I have been ready to walk away a few times. >> I can promise you that anyone else would have. I've learned that many >> people have in the past. Not one person with a disability has survived >> my program in six years. >> >> Sometimes, it just doesn't matter what you do, how you do it, or what >> skills you've got. If your faculty are determined to see you fail >> because you are blind, there's not much you can do until the damage is >> already done. >> >> I don't know how we can prepare people for that, except to have them >> read lots of early Federation history and all of Dr. Jernigan's more >> militant speeches. *grin* I'm not certain it'll help, but it's the >> best suggestion I've got. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 11:06:09PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >>> Being a product of public schools in the 60's where I was the only >>> blind student and college and grad school in the 70's and 80's where >>> accommodations were negotiated between myself and the professors on a >>> large university campus. The bottom line was that blind and other >>> disabled students learned how to solve their problems and how to >>> function independently in all facets of their education and life or >>> they failed. Basic coping skills both for academic and nonacademic >>> survival are a needed prerequisite to college and work and reasonable >>> accommodation through any legislation is not going to bring about an >>> increase of success in college or the real world of employment. >>> Chuck >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From b75205 at gmail.com Mon May 18 17:34:43 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 12:34:43 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: <20090518084207.GJ4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <20090517121639.GC4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> <20090518084207.GJ4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: When I was in college I had to take a giant tape recorder with me that was about half the size of a modern backpack as it was one of the first cassette recorders. One of the professors was afraid of "Big Brother" and didn't wantme recording his class for notes. And I was perfectly prepared to remember everything but it took the geology professor, who used to be a marine drill sergeant who went up to the professor and just said to him, "what are you doing?" But I know of one college near me where the staff has the attitude that once your are blind, that's it. They just recently hired their first blind employee. they have a staff of over 1100 people. When I was in High School I was in a wheel chair, and the shool claimed it was accessible because it was set in a hill and every entrance went out onto a part of the hill. Of course there were stairs you had to get over but somewhere on each level was one direct way out of the building without a staircase. Anyway the "ramps" were pavement applied to the hill. And of course this was after the Rehabilitation Act so they were required to make the ramps. The ramp from the parking lot to the first floor was outside (in New Jersey) and I was expected to wheel myself up the ramp which was 150 feet long and about 50 feet high. So I complained and the President of the Board of Education said that he would be able to roll me up the ramp, no problem. So I dared him and he got out there and couldn't do it, not only that, but he lost control of me and fortunately I was able to stop. At the top the top of the hill the ramp led to a staircase but there was more of the ramp going up into the hill and that was an incline of about 70 degrees. Then it leveled off and I had to roll around the baseball field to find the entrance of the building. I was expected to do this in the snow. The solution was that I had to use crutches on the staircases and the teachers would let me out of class early so I could haul myself up the staircase. Years later a judge ordered them to build 3 elevators because they took out the baseball field and built a town swimming pool and they noticed that the school was not up to specs for ADA. That was in the 90s when they put in the elevator. James Pepper On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 3:42 AM, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > In a nutshell, we're talking about student teaching with every school > district within reach having been "warned" about me and the "legal issues" > surrounding me. None are willing to offer me a field placement as a result. > (I can prove the action in one district, a pattern response from all > districts, and a specific explanation as to why I am unwelcome in one of > them.) > > I've been told by the DOE Office for Civil Rights that as long as I have > received "passing" grades, it is essentially impossible to prove damages, > despite the fact that I'll not be accepted into any field placements as a > student teacher, and the districts will refuse to hire me. > > Add that to the fact that it's a state university and there are tort > limitations. One attorney expressed interest. He wanted either $450/hr > plus expenses in advance, or expenses in advance plus about 70-80% on > contingency. He would begin by filing lawsuits against several people and > entities that had neither knowledge of nor responsibility for what had > happened, in addition to the university. > > The net effect would be to alienate all support I had (including the NFB) > and end any chance of educating the university so that similar abuse did not > happen to others. The amount of money I would receive from the suit would > be less than the cost of tuition, let alone my financial aid loans. In > addition, I would still be unable to be employed in the field and with no > additional training. > > I concluded this litigator's top priority was not justice, and I declined > his offer of representation. > > As I said, sometimes the system is rigged. > > Joseph > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:11:23PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: > >> that's the point when all else has failed and you have your documentation >> it becomes litigation time. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" < >> carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 5:16 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >> Chuck, >>> >>> I'd say lack of preparation and acquisition of skills needed for college >>> accounts for a fair bit, but sometimes it just doesn't matter what you bring >>> to the game. Sometimes, the game's been rigged, and you may not know about >>> it until you've invested yourself. >>> >>> There are few coping skills that will help you if you become subject to >>> institutionalized discrimination, the subjective and reactive application of >>> unwritten policies, and vicious gossip and character assassination. With >>> strong social support, tenacity in abundance, very strong skills, and the >>> grace of God, you might survive. >>> >>> That's what I've been dealing with. Of course, anyone who knows me can >>> tell you that I am a born fighter. I don't give up. More importantly, if I >>> have to go through it, I'm going to make sure that nobody else ever has to. >>> And yet, even I have been ready to walk away a few times. I can promise >>> you that anyone else would have. I've learned that many people have in the >>> past. Not one person with a disability has survived my program in six >>> years. >>> >>> Sometimes, it just doesn't matter what you do, how you do it, or what >>> skills you've got. If your faculty are determined to see you fail because >>> you are blind, there's not much you can do until the damage is already done. >>> >>> I don't know how we can prepare people for that, except to have them read >>> lots of early Federation history and all of Dr. Jernigan's more militant >>> speeches. *grin* I'm not certain it'll help, but it's the best suggestion >>> I've got. >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> >>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 11:06:09PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >>> >>>> Being a product of public schools in the 60's where I was the only blind >>>> student and college and grad school in the 70's and 80's where >>>> accommodations were negotiated between myself and the professors on a large >>>> university campus. The bottom line was that blind and other disabled >>>> students learned how to solve their problems and how to function >>>> independently in all facets of their education and life or they failed. >>>> Basic coping skills both for academic and nonacademic survival are a needed >>>> prerequisite to college and work and reasonable accommodation through any >>>> legislation is not going to bring about an increase of success in college or >>>> the real world of employment. >>>> Chuck >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> > >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From mar.cra at comcast.net Mon May 18 17:41:15 2009 From: mar.cra at comcast.net (Craig R. Anderson) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 17:41:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2135024384.9070671242668475415.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Dave, You're absolutely right. A test-taker with a disability can legitimately ask that the administrators reasonably accommodate that disability. But it's scarcely reasonable, for instance, to insist that you be provided more time to complete the LSAT than anyone else gets simply because you're blind. Such a request indicates nothing more nor less than that you believe blindness has rendered you inherently incapable of performing as well as your peers with better vision. Surely this runs counter to everything the disability rights movement stands for. craig ----- David Andrews wrote: > Let me start by saying this is just my opinion. I also will say I > work for a rehab agency. I also monitor lots of lists here, and see > stories from all over the country. I think the bigger problem is > that many students don't have the skills to succeed, not that they > aren't getting enough or the right accommodations. People can't take > notes independently, can't read Braille, can't travel independently, > don't know how to use human readers, and on and on. And some of the > reason for that is accommodations to willingly granted. > > It would be interesting to see the failure rate back in the 60's and > 70;'s before we had ADA etc. > > Dave > > At 11:39 AM 5/16/2009, you wrote: > >I must agree with Chuck in saying that we have a chicken and egg > >problem. Is the reason for the failure of blind and disabled to finish > >college because they are not adequately prepared to do so or because > >they do not receive sufficient accommodation and or support to do so. I > >think it is very difficult to determine so we are not really able to > >pressure the colleges and universities. Personally, I think higher ed > >institutions could do better and in the blindness context, we need to do > >more to assure access to the materials required for students to perform. > >It is certainly difficult though to assess responsibility between the > >two factors here. > >Jim McCarthy > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > >Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:22 AM > >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > >Is the failure to graduate the students that are accepted the college's > >fault or due to the lack of preparedness on the part of many disabled > >students that are accepted and in actuality not ready to handle the > >various demands placed on them by being in college and not being > >prepared to meet the demands. While I am a strong supporter of > >reasonable accommodations I believe that the students need to take some > >responsibility for the completion of their course of study. > >Matriculation is not automatic for disabled students or the general > >college population and of course is not guaranteed upon acceptance. > >Chuck > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "James Pepper" > >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:30 AM > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > > > > > > > They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > > > does it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform > > > > > the schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think > > > it is both of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and > > > > > who is not without actually asking the student if they are disabled or > > > > > not. It is a great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > > > And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > > > students who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you > > > once they realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to > > > not be considered discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from > > > > > that situation is not as good as a college that accepts the disabled > > > on a regular basis. Of course state schools are more likely to handle > > > > > the disabled with respect, since they are more in tune with the > > > consequences of discriminiation. But if you are competing with a lot > > > of other disabled students to get into a college that is a good > > > college for the blind, then you will probably be judged on your > > > abilities based on being disabled and not the general population. > > > Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of students who > > > > > are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a lot more > > > than non disabled. > > > > > > Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > > > they have gotten away with it since 1973. > > > > > > You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges > > > accept the blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the > > > population, but they don't graduate them in any proportion to the > > > numbers they accept. > > > > > > James Pepper > > > _______________________________________________ > > > blindlaw mailing list > > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > > > bcglobal.net > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf > >b.org > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >for blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > > > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > >signature database 4080 (20090515) __________ > > > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > > >http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast.net From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon May 18 18:56:33 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 13:56:33 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Roundabout showdown: Disability rights attorney says legal fight coming in Wisconsin, La Crosse Tribune, May 10, 2009 Message-ID: Link: http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?index=0&did=1705712541&SrchMode=1&sid=1&Fmt=3&VInst=PROD&VType=PQD&RQT=309&VName=PQD&TS=1242419075&clientId=11925 Text: Roundabout showdown: Disability rights attorney says legal fight coming in Wisconsin Chris Hubbuch La Crosse Tribune, Wisconsin May 10--They have tried political maneuvering, a referendum, even recall elections. Now opponents of traffic roundabouts in Prairie du Chien have a new weapon: a blind attorney from Michigan who says Wisconsin is heading for a legal showdown if it doesn't back off plans to build roundabouts. Richard Bernstein, who specializes in disability rights cases, has battled roundabouts in his home state -- and threatened lawsuits in Wisconsin -- on the grounds they violate the federal Americans with Disabilities Act. Blind people who rely on their ears to detect breaks in traffic flow can't easily navigate them. Bernstein says the constant flow of traffic also puts senior citizens and children at risk. "It's like 'Frogger,'" he said. Proponents, including highway engineers, point to studies that show roundabouts reduce crashes, injuries and fatalities. "Statistics indicate they are a safer intersection for pedestrians in general and far safer for vehicles," said Pat Fleming, standards development engineer for the Wisconsin Department of Transportation. While they are safer for motorists, roundabouts present problems for pedestrians who can't see. Research on pedestrian safety in roundabouts is limited, but a study published in the Journal of Transportation Engineering found blind pedestrians had trouble crossing and stepped in front of oncoming traffic at an unacceptably high rate. Bernstein is more blunt: "A blind person cannot cross a roundabout. Period. You cannot do it." A solution in the works The Wisconsin DOT has built 43 roundabouts on state highways since 2004. It has 190 in the planning or construction phase and estimates about 45 others have been built by county or municipal governments. Bernstein says a legal battle is inevitable if the state continues to replace traditional intersections with the circles. But a possible solution is already in the works. the U.S. Access Board, the federal agency that determines accessibility guidelines for people with disabilities, is in the process of adopting standards that recommend pedestrian-activated signals at all multi-lane roundabouts, such as the ones proposed in Prairie du Chien. Lois Thibault, coordinator of research for the Access Board, said the Justice Department is expected to adopt the standards by the end of the year. Once adopted, the nonbinding standards will provide states legal protection against ADA suits, Thibault said. Those that don't follow them could be forced to prove in court that their projects are accessible. The DOT's plans do not call for crossing signals. Fleming said while the state always incorporates wheelchair-accessible curbs, it would be impractical to make such accommodations for the blind at every intersection. Instead, Fleming said the department makes accommodations as necessary. He said he was unaware of any visually impaired users on the Prairie du Chien corridor, although Mayor Karl Steiner said there are two such people in the area. Disability advocates say public facilities should be accessible to everyone. "It's very hard for (traffic engineers) to wrap their minds around the idea that a blind person might need to use this intersection," Thibault said. A $500,000 problem In 2003, Prairie du Chien's Common Council approved reconstruction plans for three roundabouts on Marquette Road, and the DOT has said the city could be on the hook for up to $500,000 in design fees if it changes plans. Steiner, a vocal opponent of the plans, heard that Bernstein had been successful in fighting roundabouts and contacted him, although it's unclear what immediate role the attorney will play. Bernstein, who said his disability rights work is all pro bono, has argued one federal case against roundabouts in Michigan. This spring, a judge ordered Oakland County to install traffic control signals -- at an estimated cost of $500,000 each -- at two roundabouts and to test whether they make the roads safe for disabled pedestrians. If not, Bernstein said, the judge could order the county to build bridges or tunnels or tear out the roundabouts. For Prairie du Chien or other municipalities to move forward before those studies are concluded is irresponsible, Bernstein said. This is not the first attempt to block the roundabouts in Prairie du Chien. Last summer, after the council voted down Steiner's effort to scrap the roundabout plans, a citizen group collected more than enough signatures for a referendum to ban roundabouts, but the question was struck from the ballot because of wording. The group also mounted an effort to recall five aldermen over their roundabout support. Only two of the 12 council members have consistently voted against roundabouts. Steiner says he's just trying to do the will of the people, most of whom he believes oppose roundabouts. Green Bay roundabouts In March, the Green Bay City Council voted to scrap plans for six roundabouts it had earlier approved for a one-mile stretch of Military Avenue. Michigan disability rights attorney Richard Bernstein addressed the council about the problems roundabouts present for blind people and said he threatened a suit if the city went ahead with its plans, although Mayor Jim Schmitt downplayed Bernstein's role in the council's decision. Schmitt said the project was too ambitious for an already developed area, and the city didn't have enough time to assuage fears. "I believe in roundabouts. They have great benefits," Schmitt said. "I hope (the decision) doesn't negatively affect roundabouts in other communities." Credit: La Crosse Tribune, Wis. From bspiry at comcast.net Mon May 18 20:21:35 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 13:21:35 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in June. Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about attending any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode well for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances for success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to be successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the mix... that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission that you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those outcomes, not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard designed only with sighted test takers in mind. Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task in the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of functioning in the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin a cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is part of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the real professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice and training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn some bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and with a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must have to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in the real world. Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are probably plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in the skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law school.. by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is that just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other "by the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as hell doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the LSAT due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that person is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations for the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. Bill ----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration I don't see that as entirely practical. The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they can do things they cannot. I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing on the "real world". Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on practice exams. Joseph On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: > It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra > time accommodations if it is at all possible. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" > > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSATadministration > > >> Hello all, >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany any >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a disability) >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >> schools: >> >> "Dear Colleague: >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard timing >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The nonstandard >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test >> date >> as the corresponding standard administration. >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of >> this >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. The >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >> explain: >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >> conditions. >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated forms, >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >> scores >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >> under >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the >> LSAT >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >> one-day >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >> course work and examinations." >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >> university's student body is disabled? >> >> Haben >> >> James Pepper wrote: >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams does >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is >> both >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is a >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >> students >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >> considered >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >>> is not >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with respect, >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. >>> But >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a >> lot >>> more than non disabled. >>> >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, they >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >>> >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept >> the >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. >>> >>> James Pepper >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >> 0yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Mon May 18 21:18:55 2009 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 16:18:55 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Roundabout showdown: Disability rights attorney says legal fight coming in Wisconsin, La Crosse Tribune, May 10, 2009 References: Message-ID: Hello: Don't know if U.S. roundabouts use their centers, but in London, the entrances to the Tube (subway) are located in the centers of some roundabouts. Regards, Robert From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon May 18 23:25:14 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:25:14 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration In-Reply-To: <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> Message-ID: <334494EF307E408B96B24A3E5F349024@StevePC> Well, you talk to us after you get the results. Are you using Braille, audio or large print. Steve----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Spiry" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration > I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in June. > Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school > regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about attending > any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability > based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. > Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode > well > for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances > for > success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to > be > successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the mix... > that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. > > As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to > complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission that > you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely > preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those > outcomes, > not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard > designed only with sighted test takers in mind. > Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task in > the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must > satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of functioning > in > the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin a > cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is > part > of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our > terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the real > professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those > battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice and > training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear > that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted > examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn > some > bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and > with > a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must > have > to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in > the > real world. > > Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on > different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are > probably > plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in the > skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law > school.. > by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out > there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally > unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is > that > just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other > "by > the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other > accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as > hell > doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the > LSAT > due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that > person > is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations > for > the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. > > Bill > > ----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSATadministration > > I don't see that as entirely practical. > > The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be > higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the > test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it > depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. > > One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed > to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe > they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they > can do things they cannot. > > I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you > try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you > are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be > experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but > don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the > LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an > artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing > on the "real world". > > Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs > fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on > practice exams. > > Joseph > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >> It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra >> time accommodations if it is at all possible. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" >> >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >> LSATadministration >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany >>> any >>> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a >>> disability) >>> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >>> schools: >>> >>> "Dear Colleague: >>> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard > timing >>> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The >>> nonstandard >>> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test >>> date >>> as the corresponding standard administration. >>> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >>> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of >>> this >>> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. > The >>> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >>> explain: >>> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >>> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >>> conditions. >>> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated > forms, >>> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >>> scores >>> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >>> under >>> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the >>> LSAT >>> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted >>> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >>> one-day >>> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >>> course work and examinations." >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>> >>> >>> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >>> university's student body is disabled? >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> James Pepper wrote: >>>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > does >>>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >>>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is >>> both >>>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not >>>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is > a >>>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >>> students >>>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they >>>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >>> considered >>>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >>>> is not >>>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of >>>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with > respect, >>>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. >>>> But >>>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into >>>> a >>>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be >>>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >>>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of >>>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a >>> lot >>>> more than non disabled. >>>> >>>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > they >>>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >>>> >>>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept >>> the >>>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, >>>> but >>>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. >>>> >>>> James Pepper >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >>> 0yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g > mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.33/2120 - Release Date: 05/18/09 06:28:00 From bspiry at comcast.net Tue May 19 01:14:01 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 18:14:01 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration In-Reply-To: <334494EF307E408B96B24A3E5F349024@StevePC> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> <334494EF307E408B96B24A3E5F349024@StevePC> Message-ID: <001b01c9d81f$188b7bf0$49a273d0$@net> You're right, I am speaking from the perspective of someone who hasn't taken the darned thing yet, but I'm also looking at it from the perspective of someone who has been a successful working professional for a long time. One thing that is very clear from my experience is that overcoming a disability is all about playing to our strengths, and not getting over focused with our limitations. Trying to ignore or conceal the need for an accommodation based on a concern that others may "judge" that need as a weakness is an example of bogging down on the limitation. People with a disability must indeed earn respect through hard work and competency, but we should not unnecessarily punish ourselves by trying to pummel our way through a barrier like an artificial time restriction when an accommodation can allow us to roll past it and perform based on our strengths. As to my accommodations... I'll be working with a sighted reader for the test, I'll be permitted to use my laptop for the writing sample as well as for notes in all the multiple choice sections. I will be permitted double time (70 minutes) for each section, with some break time between sections. Based on the work I've done thus far with readers preparing and practicing for the test its clear that 70 minutes will be a real push for some sections such as the analytical reasoning ("games" section) and reading comprehension with longer passages. This is mostly due to the much slower technique of using a sighted reader which is an approach I haven't had to use much at all in the past 15 years or more in my professional work. Computer based access to the exam would be much faster, but LSAC would not even entertain it when I brought it up. It is interesting that this spring LSAC has introduced a practice module on their website that includes a "LSATWise" practice test that is fairly accessible with a screen reader. It seems it would be quite easy to provide the LSAT in a similar format for a blind person, particularly for this generation of blind folks who depend upon the screen reader technology for most information access and writing. The fact that I have to do this test using an outdated approach rather than a more contemporary and effective computer based approach will certainly cost me some points in my final score. That fact doesn't make me happy, and it also drives home the fact that the LSAT is not necessarily a reflection on how effective someone will be as a law student if permitted to use the right techniques. The push for significant improvement in the area of accommodation by LSAC for the LSAT is completely appropriate. Frankly the hoops I had to go through to get the accommodations I was granted was excessive, and generally the tone of LSAC's responses in the request process could make you feel like a second class citizen just for asking. My advice to a blind pre law student facing this thing is to ask for what you need, don't be shamed into asking for less. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 4:25 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration Well, you talk to us after you get the results. Are you using Braille, audio or large print. Steve----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Spiry" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration > I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in June. > Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school > regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about attending > any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability > based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. > Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode > well > for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances > for > success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to > be > successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the mix... > that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. > > As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to > complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission that > you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely > preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those > outcomes, > not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard > designed only with sighted test takers in mind. > Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task in > the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must > satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of functioning > in > the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin a > cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is > part > of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our > terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the real > professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those > battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice and > training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear > that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted > examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn > some > bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and > with > a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must > have > to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in > the > real world. > > Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on > different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are > probably > plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in the > skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law > school.. > by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out > there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally > unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is > that > just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other > "by > the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other > accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as > hell > doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the > LSAT > due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that > person > is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations > for > the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. > > Bill > > ----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSATadministration > > I don't see that as entirely practical. > > The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be > higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the > test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it > depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. > > One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed > to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe > they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they > can do things they cannot. > > I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you > try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you > are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be > experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but > don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the > LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an > artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing > on the "real world". > > Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs > fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on > practice exams. > > Joseph > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >> It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra >> time accommodations if it is at all possible. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" >> >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >> LSATadministration >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany >>> any >>> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a >>> disability) >>> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >>> schools: >>> >>> "Dear Colleague: >>> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard > timing >>> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The >>> nonstandard >>> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test >>> date >>> as the corresponding standard administration. >>> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >>> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of >>> this >>> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. > The >>> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >>> explain: >>> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >>> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >>> conditions. >>> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated > forms, >>> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >>> scores >>> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >>> under >>> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the >>> LSAT >>> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted >>> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >>> one-day >>> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >>> course work and examinations." >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>> >>> >>> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >>> university's student body is disabled? >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> James Pepper wrote: >>>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > does >>>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >>>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is >>> both >>>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not >>>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is > a >>>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >>> students >>>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they >>>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >>> considered >>>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >>>> is not >>>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of >>>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with > respect, >>>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. >>>> But >>>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into >>>> a >>>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be >>>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >>>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of >>>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a >>> lot >>>> more than non disabled. >>>> >>>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > they >>>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >>>> >>>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept >>> the >>>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, >>>> but >>>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. >>>> >>>> James Pepper >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >>> 0yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g > mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.33/2120 - Release Date: 05/18/09 06:28:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From womankind at earthlink.net Tue May 19 02:44:38 2009 From: womankind at earthlink.net (Stephanie Ortoleva) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 22:44:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administrationgmail In-Reply-To: <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> Message-ID: Is there a screen reader friendly way to access gmail? Thank you. Stephanie From benkarpilow at gmail.com Tue May 19 03:22:11 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 20:22:11 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administrationgmail References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1><5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike><20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net><004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> Message-ID: I access my g mail account through outlook express, which is completely accessible as far as I can tell. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Ortoleva" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administrationgmail > Is there a screen reader friendly way to access gmail? > Thank you. > Stephanie > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From womankind at earthlink.net Tue May 19 03:48:37 2009 From: womankind at earthlink.net (Stephanie Ortoleva) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 23:48:37 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administrationgmail In-Reply-To: References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> Message-ID: Yes, but I was trying to figure out an easy, screen reader friendly way to access gmaiul on the web with screen readers and recall sometime someone had a suggestion as to how to do so. If anyone has suggestions, please let me know. Thank you. Stephanie Ortoleva 202.359.3045At 11:22 PM 5/18/2009, you wrote: >I access my g mail account through outlook express, which >is completely accessible as far as I can tell. > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Ortoleva" > >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:44 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany >non-standard LSAT administrationgmail > > >>Is there a screen reader friendly way to access gmail? >>Thank you. >>Stephanie >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>for blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >> > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/womankind%40earthlink.net From dandrews at visi.com Tue May 19 04:48:37 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 23:48:37 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administrationgmail In-Reply-To: References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> Message-ID: I believe there is a link to present you with a html view -- the other one says graphical view or something like that. The html view is quite accessible. Dave At 10:48 PM 5/18/2009, you wrote: >Yes, but I was trying to figure out an easy, screen reader friendly >way to access gmaiul on the web with screen readers and recall >sometime someone had a suggestion as to how to do so. > >If anyone has suggestions, please let me know. >Thank you. > >Stephanie Ortoleva >202.359.3045At 11:22 PM 5/18/2009, you wrote: >>I access my g mail account through outlook express, which >>is completely accessible as far as I can tell. >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Ortoleva" >> >>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:44 PM >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany >>non-standard LSAT administrationgmail >> >> >>>Is there a screen reader friendly way to access gmail? >>>Thank you. >>>Stephanie >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>blindlaw mailing list >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>for blindlaw: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>for blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/womankind%40earthlink.net > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4085 (20090519) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com > > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue May 19 05:42:26 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 22:42:26 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompanynon-standard LSATadministration In-Reply-To: <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1><5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <92B9205A5BFE42F58C47FE20C19ABD78@spike> the specific accommodations that I was referring to is the extra time factor. I actually took the LSAT about 35 years ago with a reader without extra time and did not do that badly. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompanynon-standard LSATadministration >I don't see that as entirely practical. > > The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be higher. > If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the test is designed > for you to fail without the accommodation because it depends upon visual > processing skills, you go right ahead. > > One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed to > learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe they > cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they can do > things they cannot. > > I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you try?" My > answer is that a test that determines whether or not you are deemed worthy > of a particular career is not the time to be experimenting. If you know > you can do it with the accommodation, but don't know if you could do it > without, take the accommodation for the LSAT. It's an artificial > environment with artificial rules and an artificial result. > Accommodations used therein have little bearing on the "real world". > > Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs fit > into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on practice > exams. > > Joseph > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >> It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra >> time accommodations if it is at all possible. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" >> >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >> LSATadministration >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany >>> any >>> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a >>> disability) >>> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >>> schools: >>> >>> "Dear Colleague: >>> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard >>> timing >>> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The >>> nonstandard >>> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test >>> date >>> as the corresponding standard administration. >>> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >>> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of >>> this >>> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. >>> The >>> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >>> explain: >>> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >>> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >>> conditions. >>> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated >>> forms, >>> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >>> scores >>> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >>> under >>> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the >>> LSAT >>> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted >>> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >>> one-day >>> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >>> course work and examinations." >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>> >>> >>> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >>> university's student body is disabled? >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> James Pepper wrote: >>>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams >>>> does >>>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >>>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is >>> both >>>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not >>>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is >>>> a >>>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >>> students >>>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they >>>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >>> considered >>>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation is >>>> not >>>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of >>>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with >>>> respect, >>>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. >>>> But >>>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into >>>> a >>>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be >>>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >>>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of >>>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a >>> lot >>>> more than non disabled. >>>> >>>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, >>>> they >>>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >>>> >>>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept >>> the >>>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, >>>> but >>>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. >>>> >>>> James Pepper >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >>> 0yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From habnkid at aol.com Tue May 19 06:24:09 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 23:24:09 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration In-Reply-To: <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <4A125089.4060907@aol.com> Joseph, have you taken the LSAT? T. Joseph Carter wrote: > I don't see that as entirely practical. > > The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be > higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the test > is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it > depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. > > One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed to > learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe they > cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they can do > things they cannot. > > I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you > try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you are > deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be > experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but > don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the > LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an > artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing on > the "real world". > > Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs > fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on > practice exams. > > Joseph > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >> It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the >> extra time accommodations if it is at all possible. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" >> >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany >> non-standard LSATadministration >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will >>> accompany any >>> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a >>> disability) >>> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >>> schools: >>> >>> "Dear Colleague: >>> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard >>> timing >>> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The >>> nonstandard >>> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same >>> test date >>> as the corresponding standard administration. >>> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >>> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability >>> of this >>> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be >>> determined. The >>> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >>> explain: >>> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >>> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >>> conditions. >>> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated >>> forms, >>> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an >>> individual's scores >>> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests >>> taken under >>> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for >>> the LSAT >>> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be >>> granted >>> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >>> one-day >>> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >>> course work and examinations." >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>> >>> >>> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >>> university's student body is disabled? >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> James Pepper wrote: >>>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance >>>> exams does >>>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >>>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think >>>> it is >>> both >>>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not >>>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. >>>> It is a >>>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >>> students >>>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they >>>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >>> considered >>>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >>>> is not >>>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of >>>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with >>>> respect, >>>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of >>>> discriminiation. But >>>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get >>>> into a >>>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will >>>> probably be >>>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >>>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of >>>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the >>>> university a >>> lot >>>> more than non disabled. >>>> >>>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of >>>> profiling, they >>>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >>>> >>>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges >>>> accept >>> the >>>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the >>>> population, but >>>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. >>>> >>>> James Pepper >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >>> >>> 0yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Tue May 19 06:50:22 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 23:50:22 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration In-Reply-To: <4A125089.4060907@aol.com> References: <4B8CCF717DBD4CEBB9FB95B2AF598F03@DF5R2QD1> <5A39059B23264F5F91E8BD51301F4D54@spike> <20090518081603.GI4645@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4A125089.4060907@aol.com> Message-ID: <20090519065022.GI13019@yumi.bluecherry.net> Only some practice exams. Joseph On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:24:09PM -0700, Haben Girma wrote: > Joseph, have you taken the LSAT? > > T. Joseph Carter wrote: >> I don't see that as entirely practical. >> >> The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be >> higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the test >> is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it >> depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. >> >> One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed to >> learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe they >> cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they can do >> things they cannot. >> >> I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you try?" >> My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you are deemed >> worthy of a particular career is not the time to be experimenting. If >> you know you can do it with the accommodation, but don't know if you >> could do it without, take the accommodation for the LSAT. It's an >> artificial environment with artificial rules and an artificial result. >> Accommodations used therein have little bearing on the "real world". >> >> Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs >> fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on >> practice exams. >> >> Joseph From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Tue May 19 07:01:54 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 00:01:54 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Roundabout showdown: Disability rights attorney says legal fight coming in Wisconsin, La Crosse Tribune, May 10, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090519070154.GJ13019@yumi.bluecherry.net> This blind person can cross a roundabout just fine. It took careful effort to learn the skills needed, but they can be learned. Joseph On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 01:56:33PM -0500, Nightingale, Noel wrote: > >Link: >http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?index=0&did=1705712541&SrchMode=1&sid=1&Fmt=3&VInst=PROD&VType=PQD&RQT=309&VName=PQD&TS=1242419075&clientId=11925 >Text: >Roundabout showdown: Disability rights attorney says legal fight coming in Wisconsin >Chris Hubbuch >La Crosse Tribune, Wisconsin > >May 10--They have tried political maneuvering, a referendum, even recall elections. > >Now opponents of traffic roundabouts in Prairie du Chien have a new weapon: a blind attorney from Michigan who says Wisconsin is heading for a legal showdown if it doesn't back off plans to build roundabouts. > >Richard Bernstein, who specializes in disability rights cases, has battled roundabouts in his home state -- and threatened lawsuits in Wisconsin -- on the grounds they violate the federal Americans with Disabilities Act. > >Blind people who rely on their ears to detect breaks in traffic flow can't easily navigate them. Bernstein says the constant flow of traffic also puts senior citizens and children at risk. > >"It's like 'Frogger,'" he said. > >Proponents, including highway engineers, point to studies that show roundabouts reduce crashes, injuries and fatalities. > >"Statistics indicate they are a safer intersection for pedestrians in general and far safer for vehicles," said Pat Fleming, standards development engineer for the Wisconsin Department of Transportation. > >While they are safer for motorists, roundabouts present problems for pedestrians who can't see. > >Research on pedestrian safety in roundabouts is limited, but a study published in the Journal of Transportation Engineering found blind pedestrians had trouble crossing and stepped in front of oncoming traffic at an unacceptably high rate. > >Bernstein is more blunt: "A blind person cannot cross a roundabout. Period. You cannot do it." > >A solution in the works > >The Wisconsin DOT has built 43 roundabouts on state highways since 2004. It has 190 in the planning or construction phase and estimates about 45 others have been built by county or municipal governments. > >Bernstein says a legal battle is inevitable if the state continues to replace traditional intersections with the circles. But a possible solution is already in the works. > >the U.S. Access Board, the federal agency that determines accessibility guidelines for people with disabilities, is in the process of adopting standards that recommend pedestrian-activated signals at all multi-lane roundabouts, such as the ones proposed in Prairie du Chien. > >Lois Thibault, coordinator of research for the Access Board, said the Justice Department is expected to adopt the standards by the end of the year. > >Once adopted, the nonbinding standards will provide states legal protection against ADA suits, Thibault said. Those that don't follow them could be forced to prove in court that their projects are accessible. > >The DOT's plans do not call for crossing signals. > >Fleming said while the state always incorporates wheelchair-accessible curbs, it would be impractical to make such accommodations for the blind at every intersection. > >Instead, Fleming said the department makes accommodations as necessary. He said he was unaware of any visually impaired users on the Prairie du Chien corridor, although Mayor Karl Steiner said there are two such people in the area. > >Disability advocates say public facilities should be accessible to everyone. > >"It's very hard for (traffic engineers) to wrap their minds around the idea that a blind person might need to use this intersection," Thibault said. > >A $500,000 problem > >In 2003, Prairie du Chien's Common Council approved reconstruction plans for three roundabouts on Marquette Road, and the DOT has said the city could be on the hook for up to $500,000 in design fees if it changes plans. > >Steiner, a vocal opponent of the plans, heard that Bernstein had been successful in fighting roundabouts and contacted him, although it's unclear what immediate role the attorney will play. > >Bernstein, who said his disability rights work is all pro bono, has argued one federal case against roundabouts in Michigan. > >This spring, a judge ordered Oakland County to install traffic control signals -- at an estimated cost of $500,000 each -- at two roundabouts and to test whether they make the roads safe for disabled pedestrians. > >If not, Bernstein said, the judge could order the county to build bridges or tunnels or tear out the roundabouts. > >For Prairie du Chien or other municipalities to move forward before those studies are concluded is irresponsible, Bernstein said. > >This is not the first attempt to block the roundabouts in Prairie du Chien. > >Last summer, after the council voted down Steiner's effort to scrap the roundabout plans, a citizen group collected more than enough signatures for a referendum to ban roundabouts, but the question was struck from the ballot because of wording. > >The group also mounted an effort to recall five aldermen over their roundabout support. Only two of the 12 council members have consistently voted against roundabouts. > >Steiner says he's just trying to do the will of the people, most of whom he believes oppose roundabouts. > >Green Bay roundabouts > >In March, the Green Bay City Council voted to scrap plans for six roundabouts it had earlier approved for a one-mile stretch of Military Avenue. > >Michigan disability rights attorney Richard Bernstein addressed the council about the problems roundabouts present for blind people and said he threatened a suit if the city went ahead with its plans, although Mayor Jim Schmitt downplayed Bernstein's role in the council's decision. > >Schmitt said the project was too ambitious for an already developed area, and the city didn't have enough time to assuage fears. > >"I believe in roundabouts. They have great benefits," Schmitt said. "I hope (the decision) doesn't negatively affect roundabouts in other communities." > >Credit: La Crosse Tribune, Wis. > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From mar.cra at comcast.net Tue May 19 14:38:01 2009 From: mar.cra at comcast.net (Craig R. Anderson) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 14:38:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> Message-ID: <1682867415.9434251242743881924.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> You refer to the normal time limit for completing the LSAT as an arbitrary standard established with sighted examinees in mind. However there's not a dime's worth of difference between this time limit and any of the other deadlines which suffuse both the legal business and the rest of the real world. You suggest that in this context a blind person is entitled to demand relaxation of these deadlines because they reflect standards designed for the inherently more capable sighted population -- standards that are too high for the blind to be expected to meet. If that's what you're saying, I disagree. Craig ----- Bill Spiry wrote: > I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in June. > Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school > regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about attending > any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability > based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. > Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode well > for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances for > success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to be > successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the mix... > that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. > > As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to > complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission that > you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely > preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those outcomes, > not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard > designed only with sighted test takers in mind. > Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task in > the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must > satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of functioning in > the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin a > cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is part > of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our > terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the real > professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those > battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice and > training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear > that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted > examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn some > bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and with > a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must have > to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in the > real world. > > Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on > different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are probably > plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in the > skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law school.. > by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out > there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally > unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is that > just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other "by > the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other > accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as hell > doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the LSAT > due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that person > is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations for > the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. > > Bill > > ----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSATadministration > > I don't see that as entirely practical. > > The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be > higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the > test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it > depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. > > One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed > to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe > they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they > can do things they cannot. > > I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you > try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you > are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be > experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but > don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the > LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an > artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing > on the "real world". > > Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs > fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on > practice exams. > > Joseph > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: > > It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra > > time accommodations if it is at all possible. > > Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" > > > > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > > LSATadministration > > > > > >> Hello all, > >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany any > >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a disability) > >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law > >> schools: > >> > >> "Dear Colleague: > >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard > timing > >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The nonstandard > >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test > >> date > >> as the corresponding standard administration. > >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing > >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of > >> this > >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. > The > >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services > >> explain: > >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated > >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard > >> conditions. > >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated > forms, > >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's > >> scores > >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken > >> under > >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the > >> LSAT > >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted > >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a > >> one-day > >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school > >> course work and examinations." > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >> Behalf Of Haben Girma > >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM > >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > >> > >> > >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a > >> university's student body is disabled? > >> > >> Haben > >> > >> James Pepper wrote: > >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > does > >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is > >> both > >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is > a > >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > >> students > >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be > >> considered > >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation > >>> is not > >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with > respect, > >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. > >>> But > >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a > >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be > >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a > >> lot > >>> more than non disabled. > >>> > >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > they > >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. > >>> > >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept > >> the > >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but > >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > >>> > >>> James Pepper > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 > >> 0yahoo.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g > mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast.net From angie.matney at gmail.com Tue May 19 15:47:25 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 11:47:25 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <1682867415.9434251242743881924.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> <1682867415.9434251242743881924.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4a12d493.09025a0a.1fbd.1ab8@mx.google.com> Hi, I would disagree that there's not a difference between the LSAC's time limit and time limits that exist in the real world. Also, as someone else pointed out, in "the real world," we are often not restricted to using inferior tools to get the job done. (Certainly, we are on occasion. But for many law-related tasks, we are able to use the technology and methods that work best for us.) The LSAC doesn't even let a blind person choose his or her own reader! That is far from realistic. Those of us who took Braille tests had to be approved for this accommodation before we could see practice tests that we could access, whereas sighted people can download a practice test from LSAC's web site without even registering to take the test. Again, this is not realistic. I think that many schools assume that if you get a particularly good score, it likely wasn't solely the result of a little extra time on the test. That seemed to be my experience. I believe my LSAT score actually was an asset on my application, since I did pretty well on the test. And finally, in none of my "real-world" jobs (including summer associateships with firms and a legal aid agency) have I ever had to request the same accommodations I needed for the LSAT. Best, Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Craig R. Anderson Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:38 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration You refer to the normal time limit for completing the LSAT as an arbitrary standard established with sighted examinees in mind. However there's not a dime's worth of difference between this time limit and any of the other deadlines which suffuse both the legal business and the rest of the real world. You suggest that in this context a blind person is entitled to demand relaxation of these deadlines because they reflect standards designed for the inherently more capable sighted population -- standards that are too high for the blind to be expected to meet. If that's what you're saying, I disagree. Craig ----- Bill Spiry wrote: > I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in June. > Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school > regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about attending > any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability > based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. > Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode well > for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances for > success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to be > successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the mix... > that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. > > As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to > complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission that > you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely > preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those outcomes, > not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard > designed only with sighted test takers in mind. > Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task in > the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must > satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of functioning in > the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin a > cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is part > of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our > terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the real > professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those > battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice and > training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear > that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted > examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn some > bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and with > a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must have > to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in the > real world. > > Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on > different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are probably > plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in the > skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law school.. > by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out > there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally > unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is that > just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other "by > the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other > accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as hell > doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the LSAT > due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that person > is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations for > the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. > > Bill > > ----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSATadministration > > I don't see that as entirely practical. > > The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be > higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the > test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it > depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. > > One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed > to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe > they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they > can do things they cannot. > > I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you > try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you > are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be > experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but > don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the > LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an > artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing > on the "real world". > > Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs > fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on > practice exams. > > Joseph > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: > > It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra > > time accommodations if it is at all possible. > > Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" > > > > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > > LSATadministration > > > > > >> Hello all, > >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany any > >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a disability) > >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law > >> schools: > >> > >> "Dear Colleague: > >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard > timing > >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The nonstandard > >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test > >> date > >> as the corresponding standard administration. > >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing > >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of > >> this > >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. > The > >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services > >> explain: > >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated > >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard > >> conditions. > >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated > forms, > >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's > >> scores > >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken > >> under > >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the > >> LSAT > >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted > >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a > >> one-day > >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school > >> course work and examinations." > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >> Behalf Of Haben Girma > >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM > >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? > >> > >> > >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a > >> university's student body is disabled? > >> > >> Haben > >> > >> James Pepper wrote: > >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams > does > >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the > >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is > >> both > >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not > >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is > a > >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. > >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of > >> students > >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they > >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be > >> considered > >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation > >>> is not > >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of > >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with > respect, > >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. > >>> But > >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a > >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be > >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general > >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of > >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a > >> lot > >>> more than non disabled. > >>> > >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, > they > >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. > >>> > >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept > >> the > >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but > >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. > >>> > >>> James Pepper > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 > >> 0yahoo.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g > mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast. net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From habnkid at aol.com Tue May 19 18:54:50 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 11:54:50 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Message-ID: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> Good Morning, Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a reasonable accommodation under the ADA? Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. Haben From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Tue May 19 20:20:46 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 13:20:46 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <1682867415.9434251242743881924.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <004f01c9d7f6$3e2664c0$ba732e40$@net> <1682867415.9434251242743881924.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20090519202046.GU13019@yumi.bluecherry.net> If the LSAT measured what you do as a lawyer, this argument would have merit. It doesn't, which makes it a lousy way to determine who gets into law school. If it's harder for a blind person to do than a sighed person, it's an artificial barrier for us. Joseph On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 02:38:01PM +0000, Craig R. Anderson wrote: >You refer to the normal time limit for completing the LSAT as an arbitrary standard established with sighted examinees in mind. However there's not a dime's worth of difference between this time limit and any of the other deadlines which suffuse both the legal business and the rest of the real world. You suggest that in this context a blind person is entitled to demand relaxation of these deadlines because they reflect standards designed for the inherently more capable sighted population -- standards that are too high for the blind to be expected to meet. If that's what you're saying, I disagree. > >Craig >----- Bill Spiry wrote: >> I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in June. >> Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school >> regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about attending >> any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability >> based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. >> Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode well >> for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances for >> success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to be >> successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the mix... >> that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. >> >> As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to >> complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission that >> you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely >> preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those outcomes, >> not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard >> designed only with sighted test takers in mind. >> Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task in >> the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must >> satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of functioning in >> the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin a >> cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is part >> of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our >> terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the real >> professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those >> battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice and >> training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear >> that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted >> examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn some >> bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and with >> a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must have >> to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in the >> real world. >> >> Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on >> different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are probably >> plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in the >> skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law school.. >> by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out >> there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally >> unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is that >> just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other "by >> the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other >> accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as hell >> doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the LSAT >> due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that person >> is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations for >> the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. >> >> Bill >> >> ----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >> LSATadministration >> >> I don't see that as entirely practical. >> >> The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be >> higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the >> test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it >> depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. >> >> One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed >> to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe >> they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they >> can do things they cannot. >> >> I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you >> try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you >> are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be >> experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but >> don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the >> LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an >> artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing >> on the "real world". >> >> Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs >> fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on >> practice exams. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >> > It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra >> > time accommodations if it is at all possible. >> > Chuck >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" >> > >> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >> > LSATadministration >> > >> > >> >> Hello all, >> >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany any >> >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a disability) >> >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >> >> schools: >> >> >> >> "Dear Colleague: >> >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard >> timing >> >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The nonstandard >> >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test >> >> date >> >> as the corresponding standard administration. >> >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >> >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of >> >> this >> >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. >> The >> >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >> >> explain: >> >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >> >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >> >> conditions. >> >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated >> forms, >> >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >> >> scores >> >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >> >> under >> >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the >> >> LSAT >> >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted >> >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >> >> one-day >> >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >> >> course work and examinations." >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >> >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >> >> >> >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >> >> university's student body is disabled? >> >> >> >> Haben >> >> >> >> James Pepper wrote: >> >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams >> does >> >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >> >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it is >> >> both >> >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not >> >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It is >> a >> >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >> >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >> >> students >> >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they >> >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >> >> considered >> >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >> >>> is not >> >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. Of >> >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with >> respect, >> >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. >> >>> But >> >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into a >> >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be >> >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >> >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of >> >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a >> >> lot >> >>> more than non disabled. >> >>> >> >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, >> they >> >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >> >>> >> >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept >> >> the >> >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, but >> >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept. >> >>> >> >>> James Pepper >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >>> >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >> >> 0yahoo.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g >> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast.net > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From benkarpilow at gmail.com Tue May 19 20:32:14 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 13:32:14 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> Message-ID: I used an audio cassette study guide ordered from RFB&D, though this may not be a viable option for you. I also worked with a tutor from the local law school, which I felt benefited me greatly. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:54 AM Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Good Morning, > > Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The > Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books > that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy of > the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton > Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a braille > copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer service woman > replied. There are many books currently unavailable in braille, but in the > case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this reality. Preparing for > the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best prep books in my most > comfortable reading media: braille. I left a message with the Editorial > staff asking for a braille copy or at least an electronic copy so I can > emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton Review be required to provide a > braille copy of their book, as a reasonable accommodation under the ADA? > > Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently > taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? > > p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. > > Haben > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From angie.matney at gmail.com Tue May 19 23:34:53 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 19:34:53 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> Message-ID: <4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> Hello Haben, Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good starting point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Haben Girma Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Good Morning, Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a reasonable accommodation under the ADA? Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. Haben _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From roddj12 at hotmail.com Wed May 20 01:03:32 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:03:32 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> <4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to enroll in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is not the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Hello Haben, > > Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the > ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I > believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good starting > point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Haben Girma > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > Good Morning, > > Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The > Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books > that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy > of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton > Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a > braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer > service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in > braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this > reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best > prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a > message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least > an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton > Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a > reasonable accommodation under the ADA? > > Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently > taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? > > p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. > > Haben > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > From rjs059 at peoplepc.com Wed May 20 02:53:04 2009 From: rjs059 at peoplepc.com (rjs059 at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 22:53:04 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Word varification Message-ID: <01cc01c9d8f6$199c5500$6a84fe04@rjige047kjawst> I would like to sign up for twitter, however, I'm using a screen reader, and they want me to do this word varification. Then they have something so you can listen to the words, but when you type them in, it says the words are incorrect. Is this being deceptive? RJ From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed May 20 04:47:32 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:47:32 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <1682867415.9434251242743881924.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1682867415.9434251242743881924.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <10D511CC4FD945C0834DBDBA36816F40@spike> I would have to agree. I am not aware of too many judges that would give blind lawyers extra time to prepare for court, nor does the calendaring deadlines or statute of limitations allow for extra time when filing paperwork if a blind lawyer is one of the litigants. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig R. Anderson" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration > You refer to the normal time limit for completing the LSAT as an arbitrary > standard established with sighted examinees in mind. However there's not > a dime's worth of difference between this time limit and any of the other > deadlines which suffuse both the legal business and the rest of the real > world. You suggest that in this context a blind person is entitled to > demand relaxation of these deadlines because they reflect standards > designed for the inherently more capable sighted population -- standards > that are too high for the blind to be expected to meet. If that's what > you're saying, I disagree. > > Craig > ----- Bill Spiry wrote: >> I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in >> June. >> Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school >> regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about attending >> any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability >> based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. >> Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode >> well >> for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances >> for >> success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to >> be >> successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the >> mix... >> that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. >> >> As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to >> complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission >> that >> you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely >> preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those >> outcomes, >> not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard >> designed only with sighted test takers in mind. >> Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task in >> the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must >> satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of functioning >> in >> the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin a >> cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is >> part >> of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our >> terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the real >> professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those >> battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice >> and >> training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear >> that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted >> examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn >> some >> bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and >> with >> a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must >> have >> to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in >> the >> real world. >> >> Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on >> different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are >> probably >> plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in the >> skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law >> school.. >> by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out >> there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally >> unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is >> that >> just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other >> "by >> the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other >> accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as >> hell >> doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the >> LSAT >> due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that >> person >> is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations >> for >> the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. >> >> Bill >> >> ----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >> LSATadministration >> >> I don't see that as entirely practical. >> >> The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be >> higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the >> test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it >> depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. >> >> One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed >> to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe >> they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they >> can do things they cannot. >> >> I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you >> try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you >> are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be >> experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but >> don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the >> LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an >> artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing >> on the "real world". >> >> Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs >> fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on >> practice exams. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >> > It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the >> > extra >> > time accommodations if it is at all possible. >> > Chuck >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" >> > >> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >> > LSATadministration >> > >> > >> >> Hello all, >> >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany >> >> any >> >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a >> >> disability) >> >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >> >> schools: >> >> >> >> "Dear Colleague: >> >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard >> timing >> >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The >> >> nonstandard >> >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same >> >> test >> >> date >> >> as the corresponding standard administration. >> >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >> >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability >> >> of >> >> this >> >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. >> The >> >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >> >> explain: >> >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >> >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >> >> conditions. >> >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated >> forms, >> >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >> >> scores >> >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >> >> under >> >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the >> >> LSAT >> >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be >> >> granted >> >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >> >> one-day >> >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >> >> course work and examinations." >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >> On >> >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >> >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >> >> >> >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >> >> university's student body is disabled? >> >> >> >> Haben >> >> >> >> James Pepper wrote: >> >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams >> does >> >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >> >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it >> >>> is >> >> both >> >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is >> >>> not >> >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It >> >>> is >> a >> >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >> >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >> >> students >> >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once >> >>> they >> >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >> >> considered >> >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >> >>> is not >> >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. >> >>> Of >> >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with >> respect, >> >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. >> >>> But >> >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get >> >>> into a >> >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably >> >>> be >> >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >> >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount >> >>> of >> >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university >> >>> a >> >> lot >> >>> more than non disabled. >> >>> >> >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, >> they >> >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >> >>> >> >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges >> >>> accept >> >> the >> >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, >> >>> but >> >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they >> >>> accept. >> >>> >> >>> James Pepper >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >>> >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >> >> 0yahoo.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g >> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From angie.matney at gmail.com Wed May 20 05:19:17 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 01:19:17 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <10D511CC4FD945C0834DBDBA36816F40@spike> References: <1682867415.9434251242743881924.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <10D511CC4FD945C0834DBDBA36816F40@spike> Message-ID: <4a1392d7.c5c2f10a.6352.ffffaab4@mx.google.com> Hi Chuck, Can you tell us what the format of the LSAT was when you took it? I heard it changed at some point in the 90s. Do you know if this is true? Re: Why the LSAT and legal work are not equivalent: See my last post. Best, Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:48 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration I would have to agree. I am not aware of too many judges that would give blind lawyers extra time to prepare for court, nor does the calendaring deadlines or statute of limitations allow for extra time when filing paperwork if a blind lawyer is one of the litigants. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig R. Anderson" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSAT administration > You refer to the normal time limit for completing the LSAT as an arbitrary > standard established with sighted examinees in mind. However there's not > a dime's worth of difference between this time limit and any of the other > deadlines which suffuse both the legal business and the rest of the real > world. You suggest that in this context a blind person is entitled to > demand relaxation of these deadlines because they reflect standards > designed for the inherently more capable sighted population -- standards > that are too high for the blind to be expected to meet. If that's what > you're saying, I disagree. > > Craig > ----- Bill Spiry wrote: >> I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in >> June. >> Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school >> regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about attending >> any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability >> based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. >> Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode >> well >> for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances >> for >> success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to >> be >> successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the >> mix... >> that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. >> >> As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to >> complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission >> that >> you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely >> preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those >> outcomes, >> not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard >> designed only with sighted test takers in mind. >> Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task in >> the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must >> satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of functioning >> in >> the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin a >> cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is >> part >> of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our >> terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the real >> professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those >> battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice >> and >> training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear >> that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted >> examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn >> some >> bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and >> with >> a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must >> have >> to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in >> the >> real world. >> >> Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on >> different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are >> probably >> plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in the >> skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law >> school.. >> by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out >> there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally >> unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is >> that >> just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other >> "by >> the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other >> accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as >> hell >> doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the >> LSAT >> due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that >> person >> is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations >> for >> the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. >> >> Bill >> >> ----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >> LSATadministration >> >> I don't see that as entirely practical. >> >> The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be >> higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the >> test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it >> depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. >> >> One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed >> to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe >> they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they >> can do things they cannot. >> >> I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you >> try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you >> are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be >> experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but >> don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the >> LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an >> artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing >> on the "real world". >> >> Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs >> fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on >> practice exams. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >> > It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the >> > extra >> > time accommodations if it is at all possible. >> > Chuck >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" >> > >> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >> > LSATadministration >> > >> > >> >> Hello all, >> >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany >> >> any >> >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a >> >> disability) >> >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >> >> schools: >> >> >> >> "Dear Colleague: >> >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard >> timing >> >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The >> >> nonstandard >> >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same >> >> test >> >> date >> >> as the corresponding standard administration. >> >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >> >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability >> >> of >> >> this >> >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined. >> The >> >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services >> >> explain: >> >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >> >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >> >> conditions. >> >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated >> forms, >> >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >> >> scores >> >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >> >> under >> >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the >> >> LSAT >> >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be >> >> granted >> >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >> >> one-day >> >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school >> >> course work and examinations." >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >> On >> >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >> >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >> >> >> >> >> >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >> >> university's student body is disabled? >> >> >> >> Haben >> >> >> >> James Pepper wrote: >> >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams >> does >> >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the >> >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it >> >>> is >> >> both >> >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is >> >>> not >> >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It >> >>> is >> a >> >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >> >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >> >> students >> >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once >> >>> they >> >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >> >> considered >> >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >> >>> is not >> >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. >> >>> Of >> >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with >> respect, >> >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation. >> >>> But >> >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get >> >>> into a >> >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably >> >>> be >> >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >> >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount >> >>> of >> >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university >> >>> a >> >> lot >> >>> more than non disabled. >> >>> >> >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, >> they >> >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >> >>> >> >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges >> >>> accept >> >> the >> >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, >> >>> but >> >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they >> >>> accept. >> >>> >> >>> James Pepper >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >>> >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >> >> 0yahoo.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g >> mail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast. net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed May 20 05:37:52 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 22:37:52 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> Message-ID: A print publisher by law is not required to provide Braille copies of books. If an e-text version is not available there is the option of arranging for it to be transcribed by one of the many organizations or individuals that are certified as Braille transcriptionists. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:54 AM Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Good Morning, > > Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The > Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books > that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy of > the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton > Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a braille > copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer service woman > replied. There are many books currently unavailable in braille, but in the > case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this reality. Preparing for > the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best prep books in my most > comfortable reading media: braille. I left a message with the Editorial > staff asking for a braille copy or at least an electronic copy so I can > emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton Review be required to provide a > braille copy of their book, as a reasonable accommodation under the ADA? > > Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently > taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? > > p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. > > Haben > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed May 20 07:06:05 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 00:06:05 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Word varification In-Reply-To: <01cc01c9d8f6$199c5500$6a84fe04@rjige047kjawst> References: <01cc01c9d8f6$199c5500$6a84fe04@rjige047kjawst> Message-ID: <00080CF1EF8642FD9799A6DF92A6D772@spike> Unfortunately, there are at times discrepancies in what is heard on the alternative and what appears on the screen. On some sites the audio quality of the alternative is garbled to create an item that appears similar to what is on the screen in an audio form as the text of the word verification on the screen is not always that clear. The whole issue of word verification or captcha does not comply with web accessibility guidelines and needs to addressed either from a legislative standpoint or through litigation to resolve this issue. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:53 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Word varification >I would like to sign up for twitter, however, I'm using a screen reader, >and they want me to do this word varification. Then they have something so >you can listen to the words, but when you type them in, it says the words >are incorrect. Is this being deceptive? RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed May 20 07:17:47 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 00:17:47 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter toaccompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <4a1392d7.c5c2f10a.6352.ffffaab4@mx.google.com> References: <1682867415.9434251242743881924.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><10D511CC4FD945C0834DBDBA36816F40@spike> <4a1392d7.c5c2f10a.6352.ffffaab4@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8BB6CA5A08CA4EAEBDD1DB3F8D27C430@spike> I took it back in the 70's and as I recall there was reading comprehension and analysis of materials and some logic and math. At that time if there were diagrams for sighted test takers they were omitted. I don't recall exact details. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter toaccompany non-standard LSAT administration > Hi Chuck, > > Can you tell us what the format of the LSAT was when you took it? I heard > it > changed at some point in the 90s. Do you know if this is true? > > Re: Why the LSAT and legal work are not equivalent: See my last post. > > Best, > > Angie > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:48 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSAT > administration > > I would have to agree. I am not aware of too many judges that would give > blind lawyers extra time to prepare for court, nor does the calendaring > deadlines or statute of limitations allow for extra time when filing > paperwork if a blind lawyer is one of the litigants. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Craig R. Anderson" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:38 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSAT > > administration > > >> You refer to the normal time limit for completing the LSAT as an >> arbitrary > >> standard established with sighted examinees in mind. However there's not >> a dime's worth of difference between this time limit and any of the other >> deadlines which suffuse both the legal business and the rest of the real >> world. You suggest that in this context a blind person is entitled to >> demand relaxation of these deadlines because they reflect standards >> designed for the inherently more capable sighted population -- standards >> that are too high for the blind to be expected to meet. If that's what >> you're saying, I disagree. >> >> Craig >> ----- Bill Spiry wrote: >>> I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in >>> June. >>> Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school >>> regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about >>> attending >>> any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability >>> based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. >>> Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode >>> well >>> for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances >>> for >>> success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to >>> be >>> successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the >>> mix... >>> that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. >>> >>> As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to >>> complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission >>> that >>> you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely >>> preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those >>> outcomes, >>> not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard >>> designed only with sighted test takers in mind. >>> Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task >>> in >>> the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must >>> satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of >>> functioning > >>> in >>> the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin >>> a >>> cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is >>> part >>> of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our >>> terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the >>> real >>> professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those >>> battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice >>> and >>> training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear >>> that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted >>> examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn >>> some >>> bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and >>> with >>> a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must >>> have >>> to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in >>> the >>> real world. >>> >>> Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on >>> different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are >>> probably >>> plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in >>> the >>> skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law >>> school.. >>> by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out >>> there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally >>> unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is >>> that >>> just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other >>> "by >>> the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other >>> accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as >>> hell >>> doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the >>> LSAT >>> due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that >>> person >>> is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations >>> for >>> the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> ----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >>> LSATadministration >>> >>> I don't see that as entirely practical. >>> >>> The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be >>> higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the >>> test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it >>> depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. >>> >>> One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed >>> to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe >>> they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they >>> can do things they cannot. >>> >>> I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you >>> try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you >>> are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be >>> experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but >>> don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the >>> LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an >>> artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing >>> on the "real world". >>> >>> Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs >>> fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on >>> practice exams. >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> >>> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >>> > It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the >>> > extra >>> > time accommodations if it is at all possible. >>> > Chuck >>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" >>> > >>> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany >>> > non-standard >>> > LSATadministration >>> > >>> > >>> >> Hello all, >>> >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany >>> >> any >>> >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a >>> >> disability) >>> >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >>> >> schools: >>> >> >>> >> "Dear Colleague: >>> >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard >>> timing >>> >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The >>> >> nonstandard >>> >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same >>> >> test >>> >> date >>> >> as the corresponding standard administration. >>> >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >>> >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability >>> >> of >>> >> this >>> >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be >>> >> determined. >>> The >>> >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related >>> >> Services >>> >> explain: >>> >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >>> >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >>> >> conditions. >>> >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated >>> forms, >>> >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >>> >> scores >>> >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >>> >> under >>> >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for >>> >> the >>> >> LSAT >>> >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be >>> >> granted >>> >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >>> >> one-day >>> >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law >>> >> school >>> >> course work and examinations." >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>> >> On >>> >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >>> >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >>> >> university's student body is disabled? >>> >> >>> >> Haben >>> >> >>> >> James Pepper wrote: >>> >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams >>> does >>> >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform >>> >>> the >>> >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it >>> >>> is >>> >> both >>> >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is >>> >>> not >>> >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It >>> >>> is >>> a >>> >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>> >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >>> >> students >>> >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once >>> >>> they >>> >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >>> >> considered >>> >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >>> >>> is not >>> >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. >>> >>> Of >>> >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with >>> respect, >>> >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of >>> >>> discriminiation. >>> >>> But >>> >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get >>> >>> into a >>> >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably >>> >>> be >>> >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >>> >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount >>> >>> of >>> >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the >>> >>> university > >>> >>> a >>> >> lot >>> >>> more than non disabled. >>> >>> >>> >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, >>> they >>> >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >>> >>> >>> >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges >>> >>> accept >>> >> the >>> >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, >>> >>> but >>> >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they >>> >>> accept. >>> >>> >>> >>> James Pepper >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>> for >>> >> blindlaw: >>> >>> >>> >> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> blindlaw mailing list >>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> blindlaw: >>> >> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >>> >> 0yahoo.com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> blindlaw mailing list >>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> blindlaw: >>> >>> >> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>> al.net >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > blindlaw mailing list >>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n >>> et >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast. > net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Wed May 20 08:16:19 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 01:16:19 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's lettertoaccompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <8BB6CA5A08CA4EAEBDD1DB3F8D27C430@spike> Message-ID: <8773878F352643A5B972F3FCE0CCD5C0@DF5R2QD1> Dear Haban, Here's an excerpt from a paper I wrote regarding the challenges blind applicants to law school face (especially when preparing for the LSAT): "The only Braille materials available from LSAC are 9 former tests which can be borrowed three at a time. However, the process for qualifying for and borrowing these Braille tests isn't published anywhere in LSAC materials (online or in printed form). Moreover, LSAC has not labeled the date and year for each of the Brailled tests so test takers have no idea how old the tests are or if they've already taken one of the Brailled tests before. These barriers in preparation for the LSAT position individuals with print disabilities a unique disadvantage to their peers in preparing for the entry exam." I know of a blind test taker that recently borrowed these 9 tests from LSAC (the LSAC calls this the "Braille Prep" program) and also completed a commercial test preparation course. If you are interested in contacting this person I could put you in touch if you email me off list at stephanie.enyart at gmail.com. It might also be helpful to connect with someone that has approached the test recently and with similar format preferences so you can learn what justification for the accommodations has been successful of late. With Warm Regards, Stephanie Enyart -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:18 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's lettertoaccompany non-standard LSAT administration I took it back in the 70's and as I recall there was reading comprehension and analysis of materials and some logic and math. At that time if there were diagrams for sighted test takers they were omitted. I don't recall exact details. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter toaccompany non-standard LSAT administration > Hi Chuck, > > Can you tell us what the format of the LSAT was when you took it? I heard > it > changed at some point in the 90s. Do you know if this is true? > > Re: Why the LSAT and legal work are not equivalent: See my last post. > > Best, > > Angie > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:48 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSAT > administration > > I would have to agree. I am not aware of too many judges that would give > blind lawyers extra time to prepare for court, nor does the calendaring > deadlines or statute of limitations allow for extra time when filing > paperwork if a blind lawyer is one of the litigants. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Craig R. Anderson" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:38 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard > LSAT > > administration > > >> You refer to the normal time limit for completing the LSAT as an >> arbitrary > >> standard established with sighted examinees in mind. However there's not >> a dime's worth of difference between this time limit and any of the other >> deadlines which suffuse both the legal business and the rest of the real >> world. You suggest that in this context a blind person is entitled to >> demand relaxation of these deadlines because they reflect standards >> designed for the inherently more capable sighted population -- standards >> that are too high for the blind to be expected to meet. If that's what >> you're saying, I disagree. >> >> Craig >> ----- Bill Spiry wrote: >>> I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in >>> June. >>> Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school >>> regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about >>> attending >>> any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability >>> based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT. >>> Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode >>> well >>> for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances >>> for >>> success would be in question. If you've got a need for accommodation to >>> be >>> successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the >>> mix... >>> that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail. >>> >>> As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to >>> complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission >>> that >>> you are less capable than others who are not blind... is absolutely >>> preposterous. Success is about outcomes and the quality of those >>> outcomes, >>> not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard >>> designed only with sighted test takers in mind. >>> Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task >>> in >>> the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must >>> satisfy. but most folks with a disability who are capable of >>> functioning > >>> in >>> the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin >>> a >>> cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is >>> part >>> of that. We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our >>> terms as much as possible. I've learned that lesson well out in the >>> real >>> professional world over the past 20 years. The LSAT is one of those >>> battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice >>> and >>> training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear >>> that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted >>> examinees in mind would be academic suicide. We're not in this to earn >>> some >>> bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and >>> with >>> a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must >>> have >>> to successfully achieve a law degree and function as a professional in >>> the >>> real world. >>> >>> Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on >>> different paths with different approaches. I agree that there are >>> probably >>> plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in >>> the >>> skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law >>> school.. >>> by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out >>> there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally >>> unprepared for the real world. That is another battle. The point is >>> that >>> just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other >>> "by >>> the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other >>> accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as >>> hell >>> doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the >>> LSAT >>> due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that >>> person >>> is less capable of succeeding as a law student. Use the accommodations >>> for >>> the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> ----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard >>> LSATadministration >>> >>> I don't see that as entirely practical. >>> >>> The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be >>> higher. If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the >>> test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it >>> depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead. >>> >>> One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed >>> to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish. Many believe >>> they cannot do things that they can and will do. Some believe they >>> can do things they cannot. >>> >>> I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you >>> try?" My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you >>> are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be >>> experimenting. If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but >>> don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the >>> LSAT. It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an >>> artificial result. Accommodations used therein have little bearing >>> on the "real world". >>> >>> Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs >>> fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on >>> practice exams. >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> >>> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >>> > It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the >>> > extra >>> > time accommodations if it is at all possible. >>> > Chuck >>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart" >>> > >>> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany >>> > non-standard >>> > LSATadministration >>> > >>> > >>> >> Hello all, >>> >> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany >>> >> any >>> >> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a >>> >> disability) >>> >> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law >>> >> schools: >>> >> >>> >> "Dear Colleague: >>> >> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard >>> timing >>> >> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The >>> >> nonstandard >>> >> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same >>> >> test >>> >> date >>> >> as the corresponding standard administration. >>> >> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing >>> >> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability >>> >> of >>> >> this >>> >> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be >>> >> determined. >>> The >>> >> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related >>> >> Services >>> >> explain: >>> >> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated >>> >> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard >>> >> conditions. >>> >> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated >>> forms, >>> >> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's >>> >> scores >>> >> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken >>> >> under >>> >> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for >>> >> the >>> >> LSAT >>> >> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be >>> >> granted >>> >> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a >>> >> one-day >>> >> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law >>> >> school >>> >> course work and examinations." >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>> >> On >>> >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM >>> >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a >>> >> university's student body is disabled? >>> >> >>> >> Haben >>> >> >>> >> James Pepper wrote: >>> >>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams >>> does >>> >>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform >>> >>> the >>> >>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test. I think it >>> >>> is >>> >> both >>> >>> of them. This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is >>> >>> not >>> >>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not. It >>> >>> is >>> a >>> >>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. >>> >>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of >>> >> students >>> >>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once >>> >>> they >>> >>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be >>> >> considered >>> >>> discriminatory. But your chances of graduating from that situation >>> >>> is not >>> >>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis. >>> >>> Of >>> >>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with >>> respect, >>> >>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of >>> >>> discriminiation. >>> >>> But >>> >>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get >>> >>> into a >>> >>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably >>> >>> be >>> >>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general >>> >>> population. Because they will probably only admit a certain amount >>> >>> of >>> >>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the >>> >>> university > >>> >>> a >>> >> lot >>> >>> more than non disabled. >>> >>> >>> >>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling, >>> they >>> >>> have gotten away with it since 1973. >>> >>> >>> >>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges >>> >>> accept >>> >> the >>> >>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, >>> >>> but >>> >>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they >>> >>> accept. >>> >>> >>> >>> James Pepper >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>> for >>> >> blindlaw: >>> >>> >>> >> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> blindlaw mailing list >>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> blindlaw: >>> >> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 >>> >> 0yahoo.com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> blindlaw mailing list >>> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> blindlaw: >>> >>> >> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>> al.net >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > blindlaw mailing list >>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n >>> et >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast. > net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Wed May 20 11:11:04 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 07:11:04 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> <4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law school wave the test? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to > enroll > in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is > not > the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Home: 401-824-8685 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angie Matney" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> Hello Haben, >> >> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >> starting >> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> Good Morning, >> >> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >> >> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >> >> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >> >> Haben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 06:21:00 From womankind at earthlink.net Wed May 20 12:23:19 2009 From: womankind at earthlink.net (Stephanie Ortoleva) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 08:23:19 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] gmail accessibility In-Reply-To: References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> Message-ID: Good morning colleagues, A couple of months ago someone sent to me a hyperlink for a separate gmail page which is more accessible. If anyone has that hyperlink, can you send it to me off list? Thank you. Stephanie Ortoleva womankind at earthlink.net From chatter8712 at gmail.com Wed May 20 12:24:45 2009 From: chatter8712 at gmail.com (Shane D) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 08:24:45 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] gmail accessibility In-Reply-To: References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> Message-ID: <7556b95a0905200524k5359a367g7c5607961c7165be@mail.gmail.com> It's pretty easy. Sign in to your g-Mail and click "Basic HTML." It's a link on the page. Then you may be able to find a link that says "Set as Default View" or something similar. On 5/20/09, Stephanie Ortoleva wrote: > Good morning colleagues, > > A couple of months ago someone sent to me a hyperlink for a separate > gmail page which is more accessible. > > If anyone has that hyperlink, can you send it to me off list? > > Thank you. > > Stephanie Ortoleva > womankind at earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmail.com > -- -Shane Website: http://www.blind-geek.com AIM: inhaddict MSN: shane at blind-geek.com Skype: chatter8712 Twitter: blind_geek From Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov Wed May 20 13:17:09 2009 From: Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov (Norman, Gary C. (CMS/CBC)) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:17:09 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Inquiry About On-line Blue Book Message-ID: I am writing to inquire if anyone knows about or might know where I could find an on-line version of the Blue Book. Any suggestions are welcome. Sincerely, Gary Norman From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Wed May 20 13:24:24 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:24:24 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: FAQ Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D855@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> The attached document is a Q and A regarding the new Air Carrier Access Act Regulation that became applicable on May 13. I thought some on this list would find it a resource worth having, though I am sending it for its resource value rather than to stimulate discussion. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: Forum2009 at dot.gov [mailto:Forum2009 at dot.gov] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 3:42 PM To: kking at unitedspinal.org; ward at thedpc.org; mbrogioli at nacdd.org; djn at amtrak.com; jpope at aadb.org; McCarthy, Jim; maureenm at pva.org; eeames at csufresno.edu; info at k94life.org; Joan.esnayra at comcast.net; rosaline.crawford at nad.org; battat at hearingloss.org; tdiexdir at aol.com; howard at equipforequality.org; jdexter at easterseals.com; Mika_Pyyhkala at nhp.org; marilyn.hamilton at sunmed.com; starnesn at nod.org; mbrunson at acb.org; jon.m.tiger at spiritaero.com; afinucane at efa.org; Phil at GRQConsulting.com; gewart at thoracic.org; secretariat at edf-feph.org; maria.nyman at edf-feph.org; info at alzheimer-europe.org; secretariat at autismeurope.org; office at dpi-europe.org; chairperson at dpi-europe.org; Ebis.secretariat at skynet.be; efhoh at hrf.se; eamda at hotmail.com; aimo.stromberg at cp-liitto.fi; aeroclub.sourds at wanadoo.fr; mark.wheatley at eudnet.org; info at escif.org; annesophie.parent at age-platform.org; Self-advocacy at inclusion-europe.org; sogol.noorani at mhe-sme.org; info at assistancedogseurope.org; ebuoffice at euroblind.org Subject: FAQ Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities VIA EMAIL The Aviation Enforcement Office has issued a Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) document concerning the air travel of people with disabilities under the amended Air Carrier Access Act regulation which is effective today (copy attached). You can also access the FAQ at http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/ . The purpose of the FAQ is to help airlines that provide service to passengers with disabilities assist those passengers in accordance with law and to offer air travelers with disabilities information about their rights under the ACAA and 14 CFR Part 382 (Part 382). The FAQ also contains suggested practices for carriers to use on a voluntary basis to implement Part 382. Blane A. Workie Deputy Assistant General Counsel Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings U.S. Department of Transportation 1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE, Room W98-310 Washington, D.C. 20590 (202) 366-9345 (voice) (202) 366-7152 (fax) blane.workie at dot.gov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FAQ Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities (May 13 2009).doc Type: application/msword Size: 152576 bytes Desc: FAQ Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities (May 13 2009).doc URL: From roddj12 at hotmail.com Wed May 20 14:07:23 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:07:23 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com><4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > school wave the test? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> enroll >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >> not >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >>> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>> starting >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > 06:21:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Wed May 20 14:42:23 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 07:42:23 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com><4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B989@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Back during the late 1970s, the LSAT folks decided that since the test could not be validated under non-standard conditions, the test would not be offered to those who needed reasonable accommodations. Back in that time, with essentially readers and tapes as the technology, blind students did not even have the option of taking the LSAT. I was one of those lucky ones, and every other lawyer I know who went to law school in that era also applied to law school without having the LSAT. I have no idea when the practice started and stopped. The interesting question is why they stopped, since from what I can tell, the basic premise still remains; a standardized test taken under non-standard conditions is not valid, and should not be used as a factor for law school admission. Why didn't anyone think to apply that same logic to the bar exam? Sincerely, Tim Ford -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:07 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > school wave the test? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> enroll >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >> not >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >>> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>> starting >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%4 0gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotm ail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley% 40insightbb.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > 06:21:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotm ail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov From mar.cra at comcast.net Wed May 20 14:42:46 2009 From: mar.cra at comcast.net (Craig R. Anderson) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 14:42:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <783670699.9873941242830566482.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Back in the day, the entity administering the LSAT contended the test couldn't be validated for a blind examinee. Consequently, in those times no blind candidate took the LSAT, law schools evaluated applications from such candidates without it and The world didn't end. Now our national fetish with standardized tests holds sway, disabled applicants take the LSAT and comparable exercises and the disability community is embroiled in interminable controversies with test administrators over accommodations. Be careful what you wish for. Craig ----- Rod Alcidonis wrote: > I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully > convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who > was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be > done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. > With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he > effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application > package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair > way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it > outside of my conversation with him. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Home: 401-824-8685 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > > > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > > school wave the test? > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > > > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to > >> enroll > >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is > >> not > >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. > >> > >> Rod Alcidonis > >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 > >> Roger Williams University School of Law > >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > >> Bristol, RI 02809 > >> Home: 401-824-8685 > >> Cell: 718-704-4651 > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Angie Matney" > >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > >> > >> > >>> Hello Haben, > >>> > >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the > >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I > >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good > >>> starting > >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>> On > >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma > >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM > >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > >>> > >>> Good Morning, > >>> > >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The > >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books > >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy > >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton > >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a > >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer > >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in > >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this > >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best > >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a > >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least > >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton > >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a > >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? > >>> > >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently > >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? > >>> > >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. > >>> > >>> Haben > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma > >>> il.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > > 06:21:00 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast.net From b75205 at gmail.com Wed May 20 14:59:28 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:59:28 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's lettertoaccompany non-standard LSAT administration In-Reply-To: <8773878F352643A5B972F3FCE0CCD5C0@DF5R2QD1> References: <8BB6CA5A08CA4EAEBDD1DB3F8D27C430@spike> <8773878F352643A5B972F3FCE0CCD5C0@DF5R2QD1> Message-ID: One of the solutions is to create a test that can be taken by all people at the same time, whether they are blind or not. This can be accomplished and I have written about this in an upcoming book where I explain how to lay out this content in a standardized test. The problem here is that this all comes down to layout of the test and making it accessible to all. If everyone takes the same test, then everyone can be rated the same. I can lay out this test so you do not need extra time. Of course what is needed here is a time study and the folks at the LSAT are probably realizing that the NFB is going to explain these issues in the court case. Institutions use online application processes to sift out their applicants and this is an accepted policy. But what happens when they sift out the blind and disabled because they cannot fill out the form because the webmaster does not know how to lay out content properly? This is an ever increasing problem and although people rely on the latest version of JAWS to get them through these things, most people who are blind do not own JAWS. JAWS compensates for the lack of abilities of webmasters to properly format content. It really is an amazing program because the stuff you find accessible in webpages, is not designed that way! JAWS is making up the difference. So the problem here is layout and getting the LSAT to lay out its content for everyone. That seems to be a simple discrimination case right there. James Pepper From angie.matney at gmail.com Wed May 20 15:00:16 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 11:00:16 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Inquiry About On-line Blue Book In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a141b05.0a025a0a.70ce.ffffc70e@mx.google.com> Hi Gary, Go to www.legalbluebook.com. There is a small subscription fee, but the site is very accessible. Best, Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Norman, Gary C. (CMS/CBC) Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:17 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Inquiry About On-line Blue Book I am writing to inquire if anyone knows about or might know where I could find an on-line version of the Blue Book. Any suggestions are welcome. Sincerely, Gary Norman _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From angie.matney at gmail.com Wed May 20 15:02:35 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 11:02:35 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com><4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a141b90.15045a0a.29fa.ffffd401@mx.google.com> I am pretty sure that I read in the Monitor that Peggy Elliot got into Yale Law without the lSAT. As I said in another post, I thought my LSAT score might boost my over-all application package (and I believe it did). But people have gotten it waived in the past. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 10:07 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > school wave the test? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> enroll >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >> not >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >>> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>> starting >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > 06:21:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Wed May 20 15:18:48 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:18:48 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com><4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <330AD7AE3B3042BC9F1D8C58C35E57C1@labarre> Interestingly enough, prior to passage of the ADA, it was quite common for blind law school applicants to receive waivers from taking the LSAT. I got a waiver from Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Berkley, and Minnesota at the time I was applying to law schools in late 89 and into 90. Almost all the other blind folks of which I was aware during that period got waivers from law schools. The law schools understood that for a variety of reasons, the LSAt did not accurately predict how well a blind person would do in law school. In fact, a study conducted some time in the 90's reflected the fact that blind law students did better than their LSAT scores would have predicted. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully >convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who >was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be >done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did >it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he >effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application >package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair >way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it >outside of my conversation with him. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Home: 401-824-8685 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT >> preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law >> school wave the test? >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >>> enroll >>> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >>> not >>> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angie Matney" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> >>>> Hello Haben, >>>> >>>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under >>>> the >>>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>>> starting >>>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>>> >>>> Good Morning, >>>> >>>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? >>>> The >>>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep >>>> books >>>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the >>>> best >>>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>>> >>>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>>> >>>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>>> >>>> Haben >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >>>> il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: >> 05/19/09 06:21:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Wed May 20 15:25:29 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 08:25:29 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <783670699.9873941242830566482.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <783670699.9873941242830566482.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B990@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> LSAT actually refused to allow the test to be taken under non-standard conditions. I checked, and was told that the test was simply not made available under non-standard conditions. So all blind law school applicants in that time frame were in the same boat, and so were the law schools; none of us were ale to take the exam so no law school had to deal with evaluating the un-verified results. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Craig R. Anderson Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:43 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Back in the day, the entity administering the LSAT contended the test couldn't be validated for a blind examinee. Consequently, in those times no blind candidate took the LSAT, law schools evaluated applications from such candidates without it and The world didn't end. Now our national fetish with standardized tests holds sway, disabled applicants take the LSAT and comparable exercises and the disability community is embroiled in interminable controversies with test administrators over accommodations. Be careful what you wish for. Craig ----- Rod Alcidonis wrote: > I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully > convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the > guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. > So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. > With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he > effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his > application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that > it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public > knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 > Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Home: 401-824-8685 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > > > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that > > the law school wave the test? > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > > > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, > >> to enroll in a prep program where you will get questions to > >> practice from. This is not the ideal but really the easiest way to > >> avoid the current frustration. > >> > >> Rod Alcidonis > >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 > >> Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > >> Bristol, RI 02809 > >> Home: 401-824-8685 > >> Cell: 718-704-4651 > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Angie Matney" > >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > >> > >> > >>> Hello Haben, > >>> > >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the > >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I > >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good > >>> starting > >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>> On > >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma > >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM > >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > >>> > >>> Good Morning, > >>> > >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The > >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books > >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy > >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton > >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a > >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer > >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in > >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this > >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best > >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a > >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least > >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton > >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a > >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? > >>> > >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently > >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? > >>> > >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. > >>> > >>> Haben > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%4 0gma > >>> il.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotm ail.com > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley% 40insightbb.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > > 06:21:00 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotm ail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comc ast.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Wed May 20 16:16:28 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 12:16:28 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B989@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> <4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B989@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Message-ID: <3BF2577561D54B9486724B862C474D1B@StevePC> I was one of those not required to sit for the LSAT in 1978. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Back during the late 1970s, the LSAT folks decided that since the test > could not be validated under non-standard conditions, the test would not > be offered to those who needed reasonable accommodations. Back in that > time, with essentially readers and tapes as the technology, blind > students did not even have the option of taking the LSAT. > > I was one of those lucky ones, and every other lawyer I know who went to > law school in that era also applied to law school without having the > LSAT. > > I have no idea when the practice started and stopped. The interesting > question is why they stopped, since from what I can tell, the basic > premise still remains; a standardized test taken under non-standard > conditions is not valid, and should not be used as a factor for law > school admission. Why didn't anyone think to apply that same logic to > the bar exam? > > Sincerely, > Tim Ford > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:07 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully > convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy > who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it > can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how > he did it. > With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he > effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his > application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that > it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public > knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Home: 401-824-8685 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT >> preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the > law >> school wave the test? >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >>> enroll >>> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This > is >>> not >>> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current > frustration. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angie Matney" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> >>>> Hello Haben, >>>> >>>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under > the >>>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, > but I >>>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>>> starting >>>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>>> >>>> Good Morning, >>>> >>>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? > The >>>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep > books >>>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print > copy >>>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the > Princeton >>>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge > this >>>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the > best >>>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at > least >>>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the > Princeton >>>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>>> >>>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have > recently >>>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>>> >>>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>>> >>>> Haben >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%4 > 0gma >>>> il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotm > ail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley% > 40insightbb.com >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: > 05/19/09 >> 06:21:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotm > ail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp > h.ca.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.35/2124 - Release Date: 05/20/09 06:22:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Wed May 20 16:19:08 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 12:19:08 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: FAQ Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D855@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D855@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <43EC39492DA84DDDB552672A523984E6@StevePC> Wow, what a thorough document. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "McCarthy, Jim" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:24 AM Subject: [blindlaw] FW: FAQ Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities The attached document is a Q and A regarding the new Air Carrier Access Act Regulation that became applicable on May 13. I thought some on this list would find it a resource worth having, though I am sending it for its resource value rather than to stimulate discussion. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: Forum2009 at dot.gov [mailto:Forum2009 at dot.gov] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 3:42 PM To: kking at unitedspinal.org; ward at thedpc.org; mbrogioli at nacdd.org; djn at amtrak.com; jpope at aadb.org; McCarthy, Jim; maureenm at pva.org; eeames at csufresno.edu; info at k94life.org; Joan.esnayra at comcast.net; rosaline.crawford at nad.org; battat at hearingloss.org; tdiexdir at aol.com; howard at equipforequality.org; jdexter at easterseals.com; Mika_Pyyhkala at nhp.org; marilyn.hamilton at sunmed.com; starnesn at nod.org; mbrunson at acb.org; jon.m.tiger at spiritaero.com; afinucane at efa.org; Phil at GRQConsulting.com; gewart at thoracic.org; secretariat at edf-feph.org; maria.nyman at edf-feph.org; info at alzheimer-europe.org; secretariat at autismeurope.org; office at dpi-europe.org; chairperson at dpi-europe.org; Ebis.secretariat at skynet.be; efhoh at hrf.se; eamda at hotmail.com; aimo.stromberg at cp-liitto.fi; aeroclub.sourds at wanadoo.fr; mark.wheatley at eudnet.org; info at escif.org; annesophie.parent at age-platform.org; Self-advocacy at inclusion-europe.org; sogol.noorani at mhe-sme.org; info at assistancedogseurope.org; ebuoffice at euroblind.org Subject: FAQ Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities VIA EMAIL The Aviation Enforcement Office has issued a Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) document concerning the air travel of people with disabilities under the amended Air Carrier Access Act regulation which is effective today (copy attached). You can also access the FAQ at http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/ . The purpose of the FAQ is to help airlines that provide service to passengers with disabilities assist those passengers in accordance with law and to offer air travelers with disabilities information about their rights under the ACAA and 14 CFR Part 382 (Part 382). The FAQ also contains suggested practices for carriers to use on a voluntary basis to implement Part 382. Blane A. Workie Deputy Assistant General Counsel Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings U.S. Department of Transportation 1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE, Room W98-310 Washington, D.C. 20590 (202) 366-9345 (voice) (202) 366-7152 (fax) blane.workie at dot.gov -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.35/2124 - Release Date: 05/20/09 06:22:00 From benkarpilow at gmail.com Wed May 20 16:50:55 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:50:55 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Inquiry About On-line Blue Book References: Message-ID: Norman, here's a link to the blue book website, which offers an online subscription. I've never used it, so I can't confirm its effectiveness to a blind user. http://www.legalbluebook.com/ Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman, Gary C. (CMS/CBC)" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 6:17 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Inquiry About On-line Blue Book >I am writing to inquire if anyone knows about or might know where I > could find an on-line version of the Blue Book. Any suggestions are > welcome. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Gary Norman > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Wed May 20 18:13:29 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 11:13:29 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <4a141b90.15045a0a.29fa.ffffd401@mx.google.com> References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com><4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> <4a141b90.15045a0a.29fa.ffffd401@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B999@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Peggy probably goes back to that time period I was describing where the LSAT was simply not made available to a blind test taker. It was not an option for law schools to waive; there was just no way for us to take the test. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:03 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials I am pretty sure that I read in the Monitor that Peggy Elliot got into Yale Law without the lSAT. As I said in another post, I thought my LSAT score might boost my over-all application package (and I believe it did). But people have gotten it waived in the past. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 10:07 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > school wave the test? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> enroll >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >> not >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >>> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>> starting >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%4 0gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotm ail. com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley% 40in sightbb.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > 06:21:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotm ail. com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%4 0gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Wed May 20 18:36:35 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 11:36:35 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4ABBDB7A91094DABB223C59E295AAEF3@DF5R2QD1> Although Richard Bernstein's ability to not take the LSAT was a good thing for him, it is not a viable option for blind pre-law candidates today because the Law School Admission Council in conjunction with the ABA Section on Legal Education an Admission to the Bar have created policies that triangulate the applicant in taking the LSAT for admission to ABA-accredited schools. The LSAC is the entity the American Bar Association charges to administer the LSAT and conduct the admissions process for all ABA-accredited schools and some state accredited schools. Section 503 of the ABA regulations read, "A law school shall require each applicant for admission as a first year J.D. student to take a valid an reliable admission test to assist the school and the applicant in assessing the applicant's capability in satisfactorily completing the school's educational program. In making admissions decisions, a law school shall use the test results in a manner that is consistent with the current guidelines regarding proper use of the test results provided by the agency that developed the test." Law schools see thousands of disabled applicants each year who have taken the LSAT despite accommodations issues. Since schools have a wide array of candidates to choose from among those who have taken the LSAT, it positions the blind pre-law applicant that wants a waiver at a significant disadvantage because the admissions office would not only have to make an exception for them, they would also have to use the results of another standardized test that is valid, reliable and measures the aptitude for completing law school. So the aftermath of people like Richard inspired the LSAC and ABA to draft these rules which have ultimately given LSAC quite a bit of power over disabled applicants - applicants must take a standardized test, no other tests meet the criteria required by the ABA and the LSAC, as the agency administering the test, has the power to offer the schools guidelines on test interpretation (i.e. the text of the letter I sent to the list that started this thread). To read Section 503 in the ABA regs go to: http://www.abanet.org/legaled/standards/20072008StandardsWebContent/Chapter% 205.pdf -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:07 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > school wave the test? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> enroll >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >> not >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >>> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>> starting >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > 06:21:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com From angie.matney at gmail.com Wed May 20 19:04:34 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 15:04:34 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <4ABBDB7A91094DABB223C59E295AAEF3@DF5R2QD1> References: <4ABBDB7A91094DABB223C59E295AAEF3@DF5R2QD1> Message-ID: <4a145447.05035a0a.60ad.08c6@mx.google.com> Hello Stephanie, This is very interesting. I agree that seeking a waiver of the LSAT would put a blind student or a student with another disability at a disadvantage. But your post makes me wonder about the program Michigan recently established, whereby certain applicants (I believe they had to have gone to UMich for undergrad, but I don't remember the details) could be exempt from the LSAT if they met certain other requirements. As far as I know, none of these involved a standardized test. Do you remember the program to which I'm referring? Maybe others do and can comment on this. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Enyart Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 2:37 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Although Richard Bernstein's ability to not take the LSAT was a good thing for him, it is not a viable option for blind pre-law candidates today because the Law School Admission Council in conjunction with the ABA Section on Legal Education an Admission to the Bar have created policies that triangulate the applicant in taking the LSAT for admission to ABA-accredited schools. The LSAC is the entity the American Bar Association charges to administer the LSAT and conduct the admissions process for all ABA-accredited schools and some state accredited schools. Section 503 of the ABA regulations read, "A law school shall require each applicant for admission as a first year J.D. student to take a valid an reliable admission test to assist the school and the applicant in assessing the applicant's capability in satisfactorily completing the school's educational program. In making admissions decisions, a law school shall use the test results in a manner that is consistent with the current guidelines regarding proper use of the test results provided by the agency that developed the test." Law schools see thousands of disabled applicants each year who have taken the LSAT despite accommodations issues. Since schools have a wide array of candidates to choose from among those who have taken the LSAT, it positions the blind pre-law applicant that wants a waiver at a significant disadvantage because the admissions office would not only have to make an exception for them, they would also have to use the results of another standardized test that is valid, reliable and measures the aptitude for completing law school. So the aftermath of people like Richard inspired the LSAC and ABA to draft these rules which have ultimately given LSAC quite a bit of power over disabled applicants - applicants must take a standardized test, no other tests meet the criteria required by the ABA and the LSAC, as the agency administering the test, has the power to offer the schools guidelines on test interpretation (i.e. the text of the letter I sent to the list that started this thread). To read Section 503 in the ABA regs go to: http://www.abanet.org/legaled/standards/20072008StandardsWebContent/Chapter% 205.pdf -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:07 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > school wave the test? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> enroll >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >> not >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >>> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>> starting >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > 06:21:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From npendleton7 at satx.rr.com Wed May 20 19:55:19 2009 From: npendleton7 at satx.rr.com (Natalie Watkins) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 14:55:19 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Custody and Vision Loss In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Listers, I am hopeful that someone may be able to provide some resources for an acquaintance of mine. I do not have all of the information. She has communicated that she feels her vision was used against her in getting custody of her children during a divorce. I have read about Federationists addressing this, but am not sure where to direct her. Thanks in advance for any information you can provide, Natalie Watkins From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Wed May 20 20:10:18 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 13:10:18 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Message-ID: <2318212ABF744BDD9977DAA373FEEE91@DF5R2QD1> Angie, I do remember hearing about it but I don't recall the details. Within the link to the ABA regs (which was an accessible PDF that I couldn't highlight and paste) there is a note that pertains to pre-admission academic programs - it is Interpretation # 503-3. I also know that Michigan was approached by a blind applicant recently who sought an LSAT waiver and in the end they did not accept the applicant. About a year later I heard about the program you are referencing. I am not sure if there is a correlation between the events but it does make me wonder if that is how Michigan chose to respond. ~Stephanie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:05 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Hello Stephanie, This is very interesting. I agree that seeking a waiver of the LSAT would put a blind student or a student with another disability at a disadvantage. But your post makes me wonder about the program Michigan recently established, whereby certain applicants (I believe they had to have gone to UMich for undergrad, but I don't remember the details) could be exempt from the LSAT if they met certain other requirements. As far as I know, none of these involved a standardized test. Do you remember the program to which I'm referring? Maybe others do and can comment on this. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Enyart Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 2:37 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Although Richard Bernstein's ability to not take the LSAT was a good thing for him, it is not a viable option for blind pre-law candidates today because the Law School Admission Council in conjunction with the ABA Section on Legal Education an Admission to the Bar have created policies that triangulate the applicant in taking the LSAT for admission to ABA-accredited schools. The LSAC is the entity the American Bar Association charges to administer the LSAT and conduct the admissions process for all ABA-accredited schools and some state accredited schools. Section 503 of the ABA regulations read, "A law school shall require each applicant for admission as a first year J.D. student to take a valid an reliable admission test to assist the school and the applicant in assessing the applicant's capability in satisfactorily completing the school's educational program. In making admissions decisions, a law school shall use the test results in a manner that is consistent with the current guidelines regarding proper use of the test results provided by the agency that developed the test." Law schools see thousands of disabled applicants each year who have taken the LSAT despite accommodations issues. Since schools have a wide array of candidates to choose from among those who have taken the LSAT, it positions the blind pre-law applicant that wants a waiver at a significant disadvantage because the admissions office would not only have to make an exception for them, they would also have to use the results of another standardized test that is valid, reliable and measures the aptitude for completing law school. So the aftermath of people like Richard inspired the LSAC and ABA to draft these rules which have ultimately given LSAC quite a bit of power over disabled applicants - applicants must take a standardized test, no other tests meet the criteria required by the ABA and the LSAC, as the agency administering the test, has the power to offer the schools guidelines on test interpretation (i.e. the text of the letter I sent to the list that started this thread). To read Section 503 in the ABA regs go to: http://www.abanet.org/legaled/standards/20072008StandardsWebContent/Chapter% 205.pdf -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:07 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > school wave the test? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> enroll >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >> not >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >>> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>> starting >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > 06:21:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Wed May 20 20:13:28 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 13:13:28 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] [blind law] LSAT Prep Materials Message-ID: <4BB18A746A184C65B6233DCC53EEC095@DF5R2QD1> Oh, and one more thing - 503-3 requires an examination (or multiple exams) at the culmination of pre-admissions programs. So there is a test involved. -----Original Message----- From: Stephanie Enyart [mailto:stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 1:10 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: RE: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Angie, I do remember hearing about it but I don't recall the details. Within the link to the ABA regs (which was an accessible PDF that I couldn't highlight and paste) there is a note that pertains to pre-admission academic programs - it is Interpretation # 503-3. I also know that Michigan was approached by a blind applicant recently who sought an LSAT waiver and in the end they did not accept the applicant. About a year later I heard about the program you are referencing. I am not sure if there is a correlation between the events but it does make me wonder if that is how Michigan chose to respond. ~Stephanie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:05 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Hello Stephanie, This is very interesting. I agree that seeking a waiver of the LSAT would put a blind student or a student with another disability at a disadvantage. But your post makes me wonder about the program Michigan recently established, whereby certain applicants (I believe they had to have gone to UMich for undergrad, but I don't remember the details) could be exempt from the LSAT if they met certain other requirements. As far as I know, none of these involved a standardized test. Do you remember the program to which I'm referring? Maybe others do and can comment on this. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Enyart Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 2:37 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Although Richard Bernstein's ability to not take the LSAT was a good thing for him, it is not a viable option for blind pre-law candidates today because the Law School Admission Council in conjunction with the ABA Section on Legal Education an Admission to the Bar have created policies that triangulate the applicant in taking the LSAT for admission to ABA-accredited schools. The LSAC is the entity the American Bar Association charges to administer the LSAT and conduct the admissions process for all ABA-accredited schools and some state accredited schools. Section 503 of the ABA regulations read, "A law school shall require each applicant for admission as a first year J.D. student to take a valid an reliable admission test to assist the school and the applicant in assessing the applicant's capability in satisfactorily completing the school's educational program. In making admissions decisions, a law school shall use the test results in a manner that is consistent with the current guidelines regarding proper use of the test results provided by the agency that developed the test." Law schools see thousands of disabled applicants each year who have taken the LSAT despite accommodations issues. Since schools have a wide array of candidates to choose from among those who have taken the LSAT, it positions the blind pre-law applicant that wants a waiver at a significant disadvantage because the admissions office would not only have to make an exception for them, they would also have to use the results of another standardized test that is valid, reliable and measures the aptitude for completing law school. So the aftermath of people like Richard inspired the LSAC and ABA to draft these rules which have ultimately given LSAC quite a bit of power over disabled applicants - applicants must take a standardized test, no other tests meet the criteria required by the ABA and the LSAC, as the agency administering the test, has the power to offer the schools guidelines on test interpretation (i.e. the text of the letter I sent to the list that started this thread). To read Section 503 in the ABA regs go to: http://www.abanet.org/legaled/standards/20072008StandardsWebContent/Chapter% 205.pdf -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:07 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > school wave the test? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> enroll >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >> not >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >>> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>> starting >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > 06:21:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com From DFrye at nfb.org Wed May 20 21:53:20 2009 From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 17:53:20 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Custody and Vision Loss In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BD483D4@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Natalie: Please have your acquaintance contact me. If I am unable to help her, I will be able to direct her to the appropriate person. Specifically, I will need to know in which state she lives; laws vary from jurisdiction-to-jurisdiction. As part of our advocacy work on this issue (custody challenges based on erroneous assumptions about vision loss and blindness), we have collected quite a number of anecdotal testimonials from competent blind parents. These alone are usually helpful to an attorney who also understands that blindness in and of itself should not be a factor in this determination. Of course, some blind people should not be parents, but more often than not it is not because of their absence of vision. In the rare instance that blindness is a legitimate factor, this can usually be resolved with effective training. Finally, in Maryland the state legislature has recently adopted some pretty progressive legislation that precludes reference to disability as a cause for determining matters of custody. With Kind Regards, *********************** Daniel B. Frye, J.D. Associate Editor The Braille Monitor National Federation of the Blind Office of the President 1800 Johnson Street Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Fax: (410) 685-5653 Email: DFrye at nfb.org Web Address: www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's Blind" -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Natalie Watkins Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 3:55 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Custody and Vision Loss Hi Listers, I am hopeful that someone may be able to provide some resources for an acquaintance of mine. I do not have all of the information. She has communicated that she feels her vision was used against her in getting custody of her children during a divorce. I have read about Federationists addressing this, but am not sure where to direct her. Thanks in advance for any information you can provide, Natalie Watkins _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.or g From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Wed May 20 22:59:46 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 18:59:46 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <783670699.9873941242830566482.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <783670699.9873941242830566482.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <7D2236C17B394121A83A10F3E40730EF@StevePC> I think it would be preferable to obtain a waver from the law school where you are applying. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig R. Anderson" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Back in the day, the entity administering the LSAT contended the test > couldn't be validated for a blind examinee. Consequently, in those times > no blind candidate took the LSAT, law schools evaluated applications from > such candidates without it and The world didn't end. Now our national > fetish with standardized tests holds sway, disabled applicants take the > LSAT and comparable exercises and the disability community is embroiled in > interminable controversies with test administrators over accommodations. > Be careful what you wish for. > > Craig > ----- Rod Alcidonis wrote: >> I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully >> convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy >> who >> was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can >> be >> done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did >> it. >> With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he >> effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his >> application >> package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an >> unfair >> way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share >> it >> outside of my conversation with him. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >> > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT >> > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the >> > law >> > school wave the test? >> > Steve >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> > >> > >> >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> >> enroll >> >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This >> >> is >> >> not >> >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Angie Matney" >> >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >> >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >> >>> >> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under >> >>> the >> >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but >> >>> I >> >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >> >>> starting >> >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >>> On >> >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >> >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >>> >> >>> Good Morning, >> >>> >> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? >> >>> The >> >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep >> >>> books >> >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print >> >>> copy >> >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the >> >>> Princeton >> >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >> >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >> >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >> >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge >> >>> this >> >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the >> >>> best >> >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >> >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at >> >>> least >> >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >> >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >> >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >> >>> >> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >> >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >> >>> >> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >> >>> >> >>> Haben >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> blindlaw: >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >> >>> il.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> blindlaw: >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > >> > >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: >> > 05/19/09 >> > 06:21:00 >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.35/2124 - Release Date: 05/20/09 06:22:00 From angie.matney at gmail.com Thu May 21 00:45:12 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 20:45:12 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <2318212ABF744BDD9977DAA373FEEE91@DF5R2QD1> References: <2318212ABF744BDD9977DAA373FEEE91@DF5R2QD1> Message-ID: <4a14a41d.07035a0a.3bd1.7261@mx.google.com> Hi Stephanie, This story seems to illustrate that asking for a waiver of the LSAT might indeed put a student at a disadvantage. I was accepted at Michigan, and I know two recent blind law students there. Of course, this individual might have gotten the same admissions decision if they had taken the LSAT. On the other hand, it certainly doesn't seem as if schools are viewing scores from accommodated LSAT's with particular suspicion. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Enyart Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 4:10 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Angie, I do remember hearing about it but I don't recall the details. Within the link to the ABA regs (which was an accessible PDF that I couldn't highlight and paste) there is a note that pertains to pre-admission academic programs - it is Interpretation # 503-3. I also know that Michigan was approached by a blind applicant recently who sought an LSAT waiver and in the end they did not accept the applicant. About a year later I heard about the program you are referencing. I am not sure if there is a correlation between the events but it does make me wonder if that is how Michigan chose to respond. ~Stephanie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:05 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Hello Stephanie, This is very interesting. I agree that seeking a waiver of the LSAT would put a blind student or a student with another disability at a disadvantage. But your post makes me wonder about the program Michigan recently established, whereby certain applicants (I believe they had to have gone to UMich for undergrad, but I don't remember the details) could be exempt from the LSAT if they met certain other requirements. As far as I know, none of these involved a standardized test. Do you remember the program to which I'm referring? Maybe others do and can comment on this. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Enyart Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 2:37 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Although Richard Bernstein's ability to not take the LSAT was a good thing for him, it is not a viable option for blind pre-law candidates today because the Law School Admission Council in conjunction with the ABA Section on Legal Education an Admission to the Bar have created policies that triangulate the applicant in taking the LSAT for admission to ABA-accredited schools. The LSAC is the entity the American Bar Association charges to administer the LSAT and conduct the admissions process for all ABA-accredited schools and some state accredited schools. Section 503 of the ABA regulations read, "A law school shall require each applicant for admission as a first year J.D. student to take a valid an reliable admission test to assist the school and the applicant in assessing the applicant's capability in satisfactorily completing the school's educational program. In making admissions decisions, a law school shall use the test results in a manner that is consistent with the current guidelines regarding proper use of the test results provided by the agency that developed the test." Law schools see thousands of disabled applicants each year who have taken the LSAT despite accommodations issues. Since schools have a wide array of candidates to choose from among those who have taken the LSAT, it positions the blind pre-law applicant that wants a waiver at a significant disadvantage because the admissions office would not only have to make an exception for them, they would also have to use the results of another standardized test that is valid, reliable and measures the aptitude for completing law school. So the aftermath of people like Richard inspired the LSAC and ABA to draft these rules which have ultimately given LSAC quite a bit of power over disabled applicants - applicants must take a standardized test, no other tests meet the criteria required by the ABA and the LSAC, as the agency administering the test, has the power to offer the schools guidelines on test interpretation (i.e. the text of the letter I sent to the list that started this thread). To read Section 503 in the ABA regs go to: http://www.abanet.org/legaled/standards/20072008StandardsWebContent/Chapter% 205.pdf -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:07 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it outside of my conversation with him. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: 401-824-8685 Cell: 718-704-4651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT > preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law > school wave the test? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >> enroll >> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >> not >> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> Hello Haben, >>> >>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under the >>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>> starting >>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> Good Morning, >>> >>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? The >>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep books >>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the best >>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>> >>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>> >>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 > 06:21:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Thu May 21 00:50:57 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 17:50:57 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] WHAT'S THE SCORE: THE LSAT AND THE BLIND, Michigan Bar Journal Message-ID: Given the dialogue on this issue, I thought some may be interested in reading more. ~Stephanie Michigan Bar Journal January, 2001 *46 WHAT'S THE SCORE: THE LSAT AND THE BLIND Naseem Stecker [FNa1] Copyright C 2001 by State Bar of Michigan; Naseem Stecker It takes perseverance, tenacity, energy, and financial resources to battle the status quo. For Farmington Hills lawyer Richard Bernstein, adversity also features prominently in this scenario. Blind since birth, he found it difficult to get into a good law school without taking the mandatory Law school Admission Test (LSAT), which he says puts blind applicants at a distinct disadvantage. "It used to be that law schools would waive the LSAT for the blind, but this is no longer the case. I had to fight very hard to get it done," Bernstein said. "It was a significant battle and I almost did not go to law school because of the LSAT. I don't know how many disabled people are affected. So many are intimidated by the process that they don't even bother to take the first step." A 1999 graduate of Northwestern University's law school, he was granted a waiver from the LSAT based on his academic record, extracurricular activities, and strong recommendations. Described as an "exceptional and extraordinary student" Bernstein, who now devotes 50 percent of his practice to pro bono cases, is an impassioned advocate for his beliefs. He has appeared on a CBS news show in Detroit to describe his struggle. "Everyone has adversity in their lives--adversity is a tremendous thing. It's a blessing that teaches you to look at a situation from another person's shoes," he said. In this spirit, Bernstein is proposing that schools make the LSAT testing optional rather than mandatory for legally blind students. He maintains that many visually impaired students are under the impression that there is no option other than taking the LSAT. Law school applications in fact require that students complete the LSAT for their applications to be processed. But Bernstein warns that the decision to complete the LSAT can be damaging to blind students' law school prospects, even if appropriate test-taking accommodations are granted. "There are lots of people like myself who are unable to complete the LSAT. They can't perform and do logic games that require charts and diagrams and graphs," he said. "If we keep going in this direction, we'll have a situation in which our lawyers are determined by LSAT scores. It's a ridiculous system and we need to re-examine it." The Law School Admission Test is a standardized test and is administered by the Law School Admissions Council--a nonprofit corporation *47 whose members are 197 law schools in the United States and Canada. The test is made up of four 45-minute multiple choice sections (one reading comprehension section, one analytical reasoning section and two logical reasoning sections) as well as one 30-minute writing sample. The aim is to measure skills that are considered essential to a successful legal education. These include the ability to read and comprehend complex text, managing and organizing information, and processing information to reach conclusions. The score scale for the LSAT is 120 to 180. Typically, the LSAT score is combined with the undergraduate GPA in a calculation designed to measure the student's ability to succeed. Each school tends to use the LSAT and GPA information differently. Joan Van Tol, corporate counsel for the Law School Admissions Council, said the LSAC "provides access to people who have documented the existence of a disability that substantially limits them from taking the LSAT under standard conditions." LSAC figures show that during the last test year (June 1999- February 2000) 155 people claiming visual impairment requested accommodated testing. During the previous year there were 157 requests. Depending on the nature of the disability, the LSAC provides accommodations that include Braille, audiocassettes, the use of a reader, a wheel-chair accessible test center, extra rest time, and additional testing time. For students who require extra time, the LSAC also sends a statement with their report advising the relevant law school to interpret the score with sensitivity and flexibility. Nancy Marshall, information officer for the University of Michigan Law School, said accreditation standards require law schools to test all applicants and if the LSAT is not used, the school must establish that it is using an acceptable alternative. "Yes, the students grade point average is important up to a point, however we do have students who are not in the top numbers because we also look at their extracurricular and employment history," she said. "We also place a great deal of emphasis on the applicant's personal statement and letters of recommendation." One of the top law schools in the nation, the University of Michigan has 10 applications for every slot available. The law school admissions policy has been attacked by two class action suits challenging the university's use of race in the admissions process. Marshall points out that it is precisely the university's policy of looking at the total picture that is the issue in the case. "We look very carefully at all pieces of the application. Other things being equal, a disability would enhance someone's chances of getting in." John Meixner, a philosophy professor at Central Michigan University who advises pre-law students, said the LSAT tends to be a good predictor of how students do in the first year of law school. However, "there are plenty of exceptions and individual law schools realize that. I don't think a poor LSAT score would necessarily rule out students' chances of getting into a good law school." Like many other schools, Northwestern University in Evanston Illinois, where Bernstein attended law school, considers the LSAT a very necessary requirement, although the school also takes into account oral and written communication skills, extra curricular activities, leadership, and work experience as well as career goals. "There isn't a set policy for blind applicants," said Mary Beth Busby, Director of Admissions since 1996. However, since it's a private institution with a smaller entering class, the university can review things case by case. "We are one of the very few universities in this country that conducts a unique interviewing program as part of the applications process. This allows us to find out about other aspects of the students background beyond the LSAT and the GPA," she said. Busby added that it's rare to get a blind applicant and that she has not come across one in the last three years. Northwestern University Professor Steven Lubet, who is a specialist in legal ethics said that under appropriate circumstances, schools should continue to waive the LSAT requirement for blind students. In his opinion, it is "impossible to use the test in a way that would give you an accurate assessment of a blind students' capabilities and it is not a particularly useful tool for measuring people." According to Lubet, while the LSAT tests a student's literate facility with language it cannot measure tenacity, diligence, creativity, open-mindedness, curiosity, empathy, and intelligence--all qualities essential for a good lawyer. Lubet's view is that optional testing as advocated by Bernstein is not something that is going to happen soon because of the influential rankings of law schools by U.S. News and World Report. "A prime criterion in these rankings is the median LSAT score. So the first law school to stop the LSAT would be committing rankings suicide. I'm not saying that's good but it is an undeniable reality." [FNa1]. Naseem Stecker is a staff writer for the Michigan Bar Journal. From bspiry at comcast.net Thu May 21 02:36:03 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 19:36:03 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <330AD7AE3B3042BC9F1D8C58C35E57C1@labarre> References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com><4a134220.27015a0a.5ba7.ffff9cdf@mx.google.com> <330AD7AE3B3042BC9F1D8C58C35E57C1@labarre> Message-ID: <000001c9d9bc$e3119870$a934c950$@net> Any idea where one could lay hands on that study? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:19 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Interestingly enough, prior to passage of the ADA, it was quite common for blind law school applicants to receive waivers from taking the LSAT. I got a waiver from Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Berkley, and Minnesota at the time I was applying to law schools in late 89 and into 90. Almost all the other blind folks of which I was aware during that period got waivers from law schools. The law schools understood that for a variety of reasons, the LSAt did not accurately predict how well a blind person would do in law school. In fact, a study conducted some time in the 90's reflected the fact that blind law students did better than their LSAT scores would have predicted. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >I only know of one blind attorney, Richard Bernstein, who successfully >convinced North Western to wave his LSAT when he applied. He is the guy who >was sighted as the attorney challenging the traffic signals. So, it can be >done. With excellent grades and excellent recommendations was how he did >it. With excellent grades and many professors speaking highly of him, he >effectively neutralized any negative impact of the LSAT in his application >package. He didn't even take the exam -- he told them that it was an unfair >way of evaluating his abilities. This is public knowledge so I can share it >outside of my conversation with him. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Home: 401-824-8685 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:11 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > >> Since there seem to be so many accessibility issues with the LSAT >> preparation format and the actual exam, why not just request that the law >> school wave the test? >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >> >> >>> your alternative would be, if it is financially feasible for you, to >>> enroll >>> in a prep program where you will get questions to practice from. This is >>> not >>> the ideal but really the easiest way to avoid the current frustration. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009 >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angie Matney" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:34 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>> >>> >>>> Hello Haben, >>>> >>>> Publishers are not required to provide Braille copies of books under >>>> the >>>> ADA, unfortunately, I know that the books on Bookshare are older, but I >>>> believe at least one contains actual LSAT's. This might be a good >>>> starting >>>> point. I do understand your frustration. Good luck to you. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:55 PM >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials >>>> >>>> Good Morning, >>>> >>>> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? >>>> The >>>> Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep >>>> books >>>> that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the print copy >>>> of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by the Princeton >>>> Review. I called them up today asking that they provide me with a >>>> braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the customer >>>> service woman replied. There are many books currently unavailable in >>>> braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to acknowledge this >>>> reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely important, I want the >>>> best >>>> prep books in my most comfortable reading media: braille. I left a >>>> message with the Editorial staff asking for a braille copy or at least >>>> an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. Shouldn't the Princeton >>>> Review be required to provide a braille copy of their book, as a >>>> reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >>>> >>>> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >>>> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >>>> >>>> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >>>> >>>> Haben >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma >>>> il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: >> 05/19/09 06:21:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarre law.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From everett at zufelt.ca Thu May 21 05:35:21 2009 From: everett at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 01:35:21 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] WHAT'S THE SCORE: THE LSAT AND THE BLIND, Michigan Bar Journal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good evening, From my perspective the LSAT was very annoying. And more annoying for me as a blind test taker than for my sighted peers. However, I was fortunate in that LSAC provided me all of the accommodations I requested. After completing the LSAT I was accepted into a Canadian law school which accepts 1 of every 10 applicants and received a large academic entrance scholarship and was in the running for one of three fully funded scholarships. This was after completing only 3 years of my 4 year undergraduate degree. Perhaps Canadian law schools have less rigid entrance requirements. However, from my limited perspective there was little inconvenience or disadvantage in taking the LSAT. HTH, Everett Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 20-May-09, at 8:50 PM, Stephanie Enyart wrote: > Given the dialogue on this issue, I thought some may be interested in > reading more. > ~Stephanie > > Michigan Bar Journal > January, 2001 > > *46 WHAT'S THE SCORE: THE LSAT AND THE BLIND > Naseem Stecker [FNa1] > > Copyright C 2001 by State Bar of Michigan; Naseem Stecker > > It takes perseverance, tenacity, energy, and financial resources to > battle > the status quo. For Farmington Hills lawyer Richard Bernstein, > adversity > also features prominently in this scenario. Blind since birth, he > found it > difficult to get into a good law school without taking the mandatory > Law > school Admission Test (LSAT), which he says puts blind applicants at a > distinct disadvantage. > > "It used to be that law schools would waive the LSAT for the blind, > but > this is no longer the case. I had to fight very hard to get it done," > Bernstein said. "It was a significant battle and I almost did not go > to law > school because of the LSAT. I don't know how many disabled people are > affected. So many are intimidated by the process that they don't > even bother > to take the first step." > > A 1999 graduate of Northwestern University's law school, he was > granted a > waiver from the LSAT based on his academic record, extracurricular > activities, and strong recommendations. Described as an "exceptional > and > extraordinary student" Bernstein, who now devotes 50 percent of his > practice > to pro bono cases, is an impassioned advocate for his beliefs. He has > appeared on a CBS news show in Detroit to describe his struggle. > > "Everyone has adversity in their lives--adversity is a tremendous > thing. > It's a blessing that teaches you to look at a situation from another > person's shoes," he said. > > In this spirit, Bernstein is proposing that schools make the LSAT > testing > optional rather than mandatory for legally blind students. He > maintains that > many visually impaired students are under the impression that there > is no > option other than taking the LSAT. Law school applications in fact > require > that students complete the LSAT for their applications to be > processed. But > Bernstein warns that the decision to complete the LSAT can be > damaging to > blind students' law school prospects, even if appropriate test-taking > accommodations are granted. > > "There are lots of people like myself who are unable to complete > the LSAT. > They can't perform and do logic games that require charts and > diagrams and > graphs," he said. "If we keep going in this direction, we'll have a > situation in which our lawyers are determined by LSAT scores. It's a > ridiculous system and we need to re-examine it." > > The Law School Admission Test is a standardized test and is > administered > by the Law School Admissions Council--a nonprofit corporation *47 > whose > members are 197 law schools in the United States and Canada. The > test is > made up of four 45-minute multiple choice sections (one reading > comprehension section, one analytical reasoning section and two > logical > reasoning sections) as well as one 30-minute writing sample. The aim > is to > measure skills that are considered essential to a successful legal > education. These include the ability to read and comprehend complex > text, > managing and organizing information, and processing information to > reach > conclusions. The score scale for the LSAT is 120 to 180. Typically, > the LSAT > score is combined with the undergraduate GPA in a calculation > designed to > measure the student's ability to succeed. Each school tends to use > the LSAT > and GPA information differently. > > Joan Van Tol, corporate counsel for the Law School Admissions > Council, > said the LSAC "provides access to people who have documented the > existence > of a disability that substantially limits them from taking the LSAT > under > standard conditions." LSAC figures show that during the last test > year (June > 1999- February 2000) 155 people claiming visual impairment requested > accommodated testing. During the previous year there were 157 > requests. > Depending on the nature of the disability, the LSAC provides > accommodations > that include Braille, audiocassettes, the use of a reader, a wheel- > chair > accessible test center, extra rest time, and additional testing > time. For > students who require extra time, the LSAC also sends a statement > with their > report advising the relevant law school to interpret the score with > sensitivity and flexibility. > > Nancy Marshall, information officer for the University of Michigan > Law > School, said accreditation standards require law schools to test all > applicants and if the LSAT is not used, the school must establish > that it is > using an acceptable alternative. > > "Yes, the students grade point average is important up to a point, > however > we do have students who are not in the top numbers because we also > look at > their extracurricular and employment history," she said. "We also > place a > great deal of emphasis on the applicant's personal statement and > letters of > recommendation." > > One of the top law schools in the nation, the University of > Michigan has > 10 applications for every slot available. The law school admissions > policy > has been attacked by two class action suits challenging the > university's use > of race in the admissions process. Marshall points out that it is > precisely > the university's policy of looking at the total picture that is the > issue in > the case. "We look very carefully at all pieces of the application. > Other > things being equal, a disability would enhance someone's chances of > getting > in." > > John Meixner, a philosophy professor at Central Michigan University > who > advises pre-law students, said the LSAT tends to be a good predictor > of how > students do in the first year of law school. However, "there are > plenty of > exceptions and individual law schools realize that. I don't think a > poor > LSAT score would necessarily rule out students' chances of getting > into a > good law school." > > Like many other schools, Northwestern University in Evanston > Illinois, > where Bernstein attended law school, considers the LSAT a very > necessary > requirement, although the school also takes into account oral and > written > communication skills, extra curricular activities, leadership, and > work > experience as well as career goals. > > "There isn't a set policy for blind applicants," said Mary Beth > Busby, > Director of Admissions since 1996. However, since it's a private > institution > with a smaller entering class, the university can review things case > by > case. > > "We are one of the very few universities in this country that > conducts a > unique interviewing program as part of the applications process. > This allows > us to find out about other aspects of the students background beyond > the > LSAT and the GPA," she said. Busby added that it's rare to get a blind > applicant and that she has not come across one in the last three > years. > > Northwestern University Professor Steven Lubet, who is a specialist > in > legal ethics said that under appropriate circumstances, schools should > continue to waive the LSAT requirement for blind students. In his > opinion, > it is "impossible to use the test in a way that would give you an > accurate > assessment of a blind students' capabilities and it is not a > particularly > useful tool for measuring people." According to Lubet, while the > LSAT tests > a student's literate facility with language it cannot measure > tenacity, > diligence, creativity, open-mindedness, curiosity, empathy, and > intelligence--all qualities essential for a good lawyer. > > Lubet's view is that optional testing as advocated by Bernstein is > not > something that is going to happen soon because of the influential > rankings > of law schools by U.S. News and World Report. "A prime criterion in > these > rankings is the median LSAT score. So the first law school to stop > the LSAT > would be committing rankings suicide. I'm not saying that's good but > it is > an undeniable reality." > > [FNa1]. Naseem Stecker is a staff writer for the Michigan Bar Journal. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca From JFreeh at nfb.org Thu May 21 05:58:59 2009 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 00:58:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Reading Rights Coalition Denounces Random House Message-ID: [] FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: cdanielsen at nfb.org Reading Rights Coalition Denounces Random House Random House Has Denied 15 Million Print-Disabled Americans Access to its Books New York City (May 20, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, representing more than 15 million print-disabled Americans, has denounced publishing giant Random House, which has turned off text-to-speech on all of its e-books available for Amazon's Kindle 2 reading service. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "When Random House turned off the text-to-speech function on all of its e-books for the Kindle 2, it turned off access to this service for more than 15 million print-disabled Americans. The blind and other print-disabled readers have the right to purchase e-books using this service with text-to-speech enabled. Blocking text-to-speech prohibits access for print-disabled readers and is both reprehensible and discriminatory. We urge President Obama, whose e-books are now being blocked from over 15 million Americans, to either demand that access be restored or to move to a publisher who does not engage in discrimination." Dr. Cynthia Stuen, Senior Vice President of Policy and Evaluation for Lighthouse International, said: "Having the technology available to give people with impaired vision and other print disabilities equal and timely access to the printed word should be celebrated and encouraged in a civil and just society for all." Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "Random House is callously disregarding the right of American consumers with disabilities to get access to the same content at the same price at the same time as everyone else. Random House's decision to turn off the feature that makes this content accessible to millions of print-disabled Americans is a bad business decision with real human consequences and it must be corrected immediately." Mitch Pomerantz, President of the American Council of the Blind, said: "The recent action by Random House disabling text-to-speech on e-books is the latest and most egregious discriminatory action against the nation's 15 million print-disabled individuals. Random House either doesn't care or doesn't understand the impact this will have on those who would otherwise have equal access to books and other printed materials in the same manner as our non-disabled peers. We must work collaboratively to do everything possible to assure such access for this growing constituency." James Love, Director of Knowledge Ecology International (KEI), said: "KEI is disappointed that Random House is turning off text-to-speech on its Kindle 2 e-books. In a world where access to knowledge is central to everything, Random House certainly understands this action will isolate and marginalize many persons with reading disabilities." K. Eric Larson, Executive Director and CEO of National Spinal Cord Injury Association, said: "All Americans have the right to equal access and many people living with paralysis use text-to-speech capabilities in order to gain that access. Our members are also consumers and "turning off" text-to-speech means that some will not buy books they would otherwise purchase." John R. Sheehan, Chairman of the Xavier Society for the Blind, said: "The Xavier Society for the Blind is committed to the notion that ALL books should be accessible to all people. When a book about Mother Teresa is among those whose text-to-speech functions have been disabled, we fear that we are seeing the beginning of a blanket cut-off of a function that should be open and available to all, especially (but not exclusively) to those with visual impairments or other problems that limit access to printed materials." When Amazon released the Kindle 2 e-book reading service on February 9, 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e-books aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the Authors Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give publishers the ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their e-books available for the Kindle 2 service. Random House is the first publisher to turn off text-to-speech on all of its e-books and thus deny the rights of print-disabled people across America. The Reading Rights coalition includes the blind, people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, seniors losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering from strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the Kindle 2 promises for the first time easy, mainstream access to over 270,000 books. For more information about the Reading Rights Coalition, please visit www.readingrights.org. To sign our petition, go to http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/We-Want-To-Read. If you are an author who supports our cause, please send your contact information to readingrights at nfb.org. ### -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 683204d.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4660 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu May 21 14:58:07 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 09:58:07 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Obama Official Will Deliver Keynote Address at ABA Conference on Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities Message-ID: ________________________________ From: Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law [mailto:cmpdl at abanet.org] Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:45 AM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: Obama Official Will Deliver Keynote Address at ABA Conference on Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities If you cannot view this email, click here. Obama Official Will Deliver Keynote Address at ABA Conference on Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities The ABA is pleased to announce that Kareem A. Dale, Associate Director, White House Office of Public Engagement & Special Assistant to the President for [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/Dale.jpg] Disability Policy, will be delivering a keynote address at the Conference. Mr. Dale, a lawyer with a disability, coordinates the Obama Administration's efforts to see that people with disabilities are on a level playing field with all Americans. * For more information and to register, click here [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/2009conferencelogoTRANS_dale_email.jpg] Following the conference, registrants are invited to attend the Minority Corporate Counsel Association's Mid-Atlantic Diversity Dinner taking place on June 16th 5:30pm-8:30pm at the JW Marriott in Washington, DC. The dinner will honor the law departments of XO Holdings, Inc. and Duke Energy Corporation as the 2009 Employer's of Choice for the Mid-Atlantic Region. The evening offers a unique opportunity to reflect upon the accomplishments of law departments and firms in the region whose leadership has helped reshape diversity in the legal profession as well as offer quality networking with some of the area's leading in-house counsel. For registration and information please visit www.mcca.com or contact Jennifer Chen at 202-739-5902. ________________________________ Your e-mail address will only be used within the ABA and its entities. We do not sell or rent e-mail addresses to anyone outside the ABA. Update your profile | Unsubscribe | Privacy Policy American Bar Association | 321 N Clark | Chicago, IL 60654 | 1-800-285-2221 From info at michaelhingson.com Thu May 21 18:35:04 2009 From: info at michaelhingson.com (Michael Hingson) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 13:35:04 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] KnfbReader Mobile to be demonstrated next Tuesday May 26th Message-ID: KNFB Reader Mobile to be demonstrated this coming Tuesday, May 26, 2009 This coming Tuesday Michael Hingson, Director of National KnfbReader Mobile Sales for the National Federation of the Blind, and the NFB sales team will demonstrate the exciting KnfbReader Mobile Reader - featuring the first cell phone that reads and translates print into voice. The knfb Reader Mobile is a major advancement in print access for the Blind. The software, delivered on a multifunction cell phone, allows the user To snap pictures of any printed material and have it read aloud immediately. The first of its kind, the pocket-sized device allows individuals to Have print analyzed and read aloud in real time and in real life situations. The latest version is now able to read in a variety of languages Including French, German, Dutch, Belgian Dutch, Italian, and Castilian. Additionally, the software is able to translate between languages, displaying and reading aloud in English translated text. The reader also can read U.S. Currency on demand. Michael Hingson says, "The KnfbReader Mobile is the only truly portable reading system available to blind and other print handicapped individuals which will read almost any printed information aloud." "This on-line demonstration will give people a close-up look at the Reader. We will be taking questions after the actual demonstration." The demonstration will include a discussion of the product cost and availability. The NFB Reader Sales team will also be introduced. "There has never been a better time to consider owning one of these wonderful devices", Hingson states. Contact: Michael Hingson Email: info at michaelhingson.com 888-965-9191 Date: Tuesday May 26, 2009. Time: 8:00 P.M. Eastern, 7:00 P.M. Central, 6:00 P.M. Mountain, 5:00 P.M. Pacific, and elsewhere in the world 01:00 GMT Wednesday May 27. Where: KnfbReader Mobile conference room: which you can locate by clicking on the following link: Enter the Conference Room Here Or, alternatively, http://74.208.96.53/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rsb18eeae3cfd2. After reaching the conference room entry page follow the instructions to enter the conference room itself. No password is required. We will record the event and put it on Michael Hingson's web site http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com so if you are unable to participate live at the above times then you may download the presentation or podcast from the website listed above. This online interactive program requires no password, is free of Charge, and open to anyone worldwide having an Internet connection, a Computer, speakers, and a sound card. Those with microphones can interact audibly with the presenters and others in the virtual audience. If you are a first-time user of the Talking Communities online conferencing software, there is a small, safe software program that you need to download and then run. A link to the software is available On the entry screen to the online conference room. The Michael Hingson Group "Speaking with Vision" Michael Hingson, President (415) 827-4084 info at michaelhingson.com www.michaelhingson.com for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit: http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com http://michaelhingson.com/images/knfbReader-michael_hingson.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: c8a470.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3059 bytes Desc: not available URL: From johnrsheehan at yahoo.com Fri May 22 12:29:48 2009 From: johnrsheehan at yahoo.com (John Sheehan) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 05:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] KnfbReader Mobile to be demonstrated next Tuesday May 26th In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <848328.46533.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com> FYI - Could be an informative add for the Xavier Review   Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ Residence: 53 E 83rd St New York, NY 10028 Room Phone: 212 606-3420 Cell: 646 853-1820 Blog: www.frjohnsj.blogspot.com Office: Xavier Society for the Blind 154 E. 23rd St NYC 10010 212 473-7800, ext 119 Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you. ________________________________ From: Michael Hingson To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:35:04 PM Subject: [blindlaw] KnfbReader Mobile to be demonstrated next Tuesday May 26th KNFB Reader Mobile to be demonstrated this coming Tuesday, May 26, 2009 This coming Tuesday Michael Hingson, Director of National KnfbReader Mobile Sales for the National Federation of the Blind, and the NFB sales team  will demonstrate the exciting KnfbReader Mobile Reader - featuring the first cell phone that reads and translates print into voice. The knfb Reader Mobile is a major advancement in print access for the   Blind.  The software, delivered on a multifunction cell phone, allows the user   To snap pictures of any printed material and have it read aloud immediately.   The first of its kind, the pocket-sized device allows individuals to   Have print analyzed and read aloud in real time and in real life situations.   The latest version is now able to read in a variety of languages   Including French, German, Dutch, Belgian Dutch, Italian, and Castilian.   Additionally, the software is able to translate between languages, displaying and reading aloud in English translated text. The reader also can read U.S. Currency on demand. Michael Hingson says, "The KnfbReader Mobile is the only truly portable reading system available to blind and other print handicapped individuals which will read almost any printed information aloud."  "This on-line demonstration will give people a close-up look at the Reader.  We will be taking questions after the actual demonstration." The demonstration will include a discussion of the product cost and availability.  The NFB Reader Sales team will also be introduced.  "There has never been a better time to consider owning one of these wonderful devices", Hingson states.   Contact: Michael Hingson   Email:  info at michaelhingson.com   888-965-9191   Date:  Tuesday May 26, 2009.   Time:  8:00 P.M. Eastern, 7:00 P.M. Central, 6:00 P.M. Mountain, 5:00 P.M. Pacific, and elsewhere in the world 01:00 GMT Wednesday May 27.   Where:  KnfbReader Mobile conference room: which you can locate by clicking on the following link: Enter the Conference Room Here   Or, alternatively,   http://74.208.96.53/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rsb18eeae3cfd2. After reaching the conference room entry page follow the instructions to enter the conference room itself.  No password is required.   We will record the event and put it on Michael Hingson's web site http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com so if you are unable to participate live at the above times then you may download the presentation or podcast from the website listed above.   This online interactive program requires no password, is free of   Charge, and open to anyone worldwide having an Internet connection, a   Computer, speakers, and a sound card. Those with microphones can   interact audibly with the presenters and others in the virtual   audience.   If you are a first-time user of the Talking Communities online   conferencing software, there is a small, safe software program that   you need to download and then run. A link to the software is available   On the entry screen to the online conference room. The Michael Hingson Group     "Speaking with Vision"                 Michael Hingson, President                         (415) 827-4084                   info at michaelhingson.com                   www.michaelhingson.com for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit: http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com http://michaelhingson.com/images/knfbReader-michael_hingson.jpg From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri May 22 18:24:02 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 13:24:02 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Job opening in Yakima for bilingual staff attorney - Ref#18881096 Message-ID: FULL‐TIME STAFF ATTORNEY Yakima County Office POSITION: TeamChild is seeking a full‐time bilingual staff attorney to assist in implementing a three‐year grant funded project that expands our services to youth in Benton and Franklin counties. This position is made possible through a grant from the Center for Children and Youth Justice (www.ccyj.org) as one of a number of projects that will be replicated under a larger grant. Primary job duties include legal outreach, advice and representation of youth who are at risk of or already involved in the juvenile justice system to help address their education, housing, and health care needs. Duties also include community education and collaboration on community based projects that serve TeamChild's client base. The position will be based in our Yakima office. QUALIFICATIONS: We are seeking candidates who are respectful and open to working with people from diverse backgrounds, enjoy creative problem solving, value the creation of relationships across disciplines, have strong organizational and administrative skills, work well both independently and as a team member, and are enthusiastic about being a part of an innovative method of advocacy. Additional qualifications include: ? Bilingual written and oral Spanish language proficiency ? Member in good standing of the Washington State Bar ? Strong oral and written communication skills ? Exceptional legal skills, preferably in the relevant areas of law (school discipline/special education, Medicaid/EPSDT, delinquency, child welfare, or other areas of youth law) ? Experience working with young people, especially 12‐18 year olds ? Demonstrated competence in working with diverse clients and client communities ? Connections to Benton and Franklin Counties ? Demonstrated ability to collaborate effectively with other advocates and client groups ? Sense of humor SALARY AND BENEFITS: Salary dependent upon experience. Generous benefits included. TEAMCHILD: TeamChild is a Washington State nonprofit civil legal services program for youth with offices in King, Pierce, Spokane, Snohomish and Yakima Counties. TeamChild works closely with public defenders, probation officers and others in the juvenile justice system, and provides legal representation to youth on their rights to education, Medicaid, safe and stable housing, mental health treatment, and other social services. TeamChild is a nationally recognized, innovative interdisciplinary model of advocacy that works to secure community‐based services for young people, with the goal of addressing many of the problems underlying their criminal behavior. APPLICATION PROCESS: ? Read the Staff Attorney Application instructions. ? Mail or email your letter of interest and resume to: Anne Lee, Executive Director, TeamChild, 1225 South Weller St., Suite 420, Seattle, WA 98144 or jobs at teamchild.org. ? Open until filled. ? Questions? Call (206) 322‐2444, ext. 102. TeamChild is committed to promoting an environment free of barriers and discriminatory practices for its clients, Board and staff. ~~~~~ Rachel S. Black | Susman Godfrey L.L.P. 1201 Third Avenue | Suite 3800 | Seattle, WA 98101 Phone: 206-516-3899 | Fax: 206-516-3883 rblack at susmangodfrey.com | www.susmangodfrey.com This message may be protected by the attorney client privilege or the work product doctrine. ________________________________________ View and comment online: https://www.bigtent.com/group/forum/message/18881096 HINT: When replying by email, please do not include the original message. ---------- Advertisement ---------- Special offer for BigTent Groups: Order flowers from ProFlowers for a graduation, a birthday, an anniversary or just because and get a FREE vase with every order! http://tinyurl.com/prbtso From dandrews at visi.com Fri May 22 20:27:26 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 15:27:26 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Agenda for 2009 NFB Convention Message-ID: The National Federation of the Blind Logo 2009 ANNUAL CONVENTION DETROIT, MICHIGAN JULY 3 to JULY 8 Text box Whozit THE MEMBERS OF THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF MICHIGAN WELCOME YOU TO THE 69th ANNUAL CONVENTION OF THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND Marc Maurer, President National Federation of the Blind 1800 Johnson Street Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Mary Ellen Jernigan Executive Director for Operations and Chairwoman, Convention Organization and Activities Fred Wurtzel, President National Federation of the Blind of Michigan 1212 North Foster Avenue Lansing, Michigan 48912-3309 Detroit Marriott® at the Renaissance Center Renaissance Center (313) 568-8000 Courtyard by Marriott® 333 E. Jefferson Avenue (313) 222-7700 DETROIT MARRIOTT The 69th annual convention of the National Federation of the Blind is being held in Michigan at the Detroit Marriott® at the Renaissance Center. As usual, our hotel rates are very good: singles and doubles $62, triples $66, and quads $68. In addition to the room rates, there is a 15 percent sales tax. There is no charge for children under eighteen in the room with parents as long as no extra bed is required. Proof of convention registration is necessary, including the showing of an NFB registration badge if requested. Otherwise, regular hotel rates must be paid. The Detroit Marriott is a seventy-two story round hotel in the middle of a larger complex of buildings known as the Renaissance Center. The lowest level is the Motor Lobby where people arriving by taxis and automobiles enter the hotel. There are bellmen at this entrance and elevators going directly to the main lobby of the hotel, which is located on Level Three. All hotel meeting rooms, ballrooms, and the exhibit hall are on Levels Three, Four, and Five. A bank of twelve elevators is located in the center of the hotel in a corridor oriented along the east-west axis of the building. The first six elevators at the west end of the corridor (three on each side) serve floors three through forty. The next six elevators (three on each side) serve floors three, four, five, and forty through seventy. Just beyond each end of the elevator corridor a set of escalators serves Levels Three, Four, and Five. To reach the main hotel lobby you should leave the elevator corridor heading west. The hotel restaurant (Forty-two Degrees North) and Volt (a bar which also serves an extensive array of food) can be entered from the main lobby. Many other food outlets including a large food court are located on Levels A, One, and Two in the Renaissance Center complex. The easiest way to exit the hotel proper into other parts of the Renaissance Center Complex is to use an escalator located near the Coach Insignia Restaurant elevator at the south end of Level Three of the hotel. The Detroit Marriott has a smoke-free policy. COURTYARD MARRIOTT The Courtyard Marriott is connected to Level Two of the Renaissance Center Complex by an enclosed overhead walkway. It may also be reached by leaving the Renaissance Center at Level One through the Jefferson Lobby. We are using both sleeping rooms and meeting space in the Courtyard Marriott. A group of Whozits marching together. “MOTOR CITY” MARCH FOR INDEPENDENCE: SUPPORTING OUR IMAGINATION FUND CAMPAIGN On Monday, July 6, we open the convention with our spectacular third March for Independence. Marching through downtown Detroit, we will celebrate our liberty among friends, family members, and supporters. Please gather for this fundraising and “friend-raising” walk-a-thon and rally at 6:45 Monday morning in the Wintergarden on Level A of the Detroit Marriott. Most of the route is along the beautiful RiverWalk promenade and culminates with a rally in Rivard Plaza. Marcher drop-in briefing sessions are on Sunday, July 5, from 7:00 to 10:00 pm. Let’s walk together to make the Motor City March a truly magnificent event. NFB OF MICHIGAN HOSPITALITY DANCE! Our host affiliate invites you to celebrate with them by renewing old friendships and/or forming new ones on Monday, July 6, at 7:00 pm in the Ambassador Ballroom, Level 3. Entertainment by “Nine,” a nine-piece band that will perform Motown, soul, classic rock, pop, and old standards­guaranteed to create an exciting atmosphere and stir pleasant memories. ROOKIE ROUNDUP Rookie Roundup Logo All first-time convention attendees are cordially invited to attend a reception from 8:00 to 10:00 pm on Friday, July 3, in the Ambassador Ballroom One, Level 3. President Maurer and other Federation leaders will be on hand to welcome you to the convention and preview the week’s activities. Veteran conventioneers should urge all first-timers to attend this special event. Also, first-time rookies are invited to join an informal, fun gathering on Sunday, July 5, from 12:00 noon to 2:00 pm in the Affiliate Action Suite 6801. REGISTRATION & PREREGISTRATION Registration activities take place in the Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 beginning at 9:00 am on Saturday, July 4; at 8:30 am on Sunday, July 5; and at other times as listed throughout the week. The fee for registration at convention is $20 per person (if you preregistered before May 31, the fee was $15), and all those attending the convention (both local and out of town people) are asked to register. Convention registration is a requirement for door prize eligibility and a number of other convention activities. We condition rates for hotel rooms on proof of registration, including the showing of an NFB registration badge if requested. Therefore, please register as soon as possible after arrival. EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET Exhibits and the NFB Independence Market are located in the Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3. The exhibit hall hours are: Saturday 9:00 am to 5:00 pm Sunday 8:30 am to 5:00 pm Monday Noon to 1:45 pm; sponsors only from 7:00-10:00 pm Tuesday Noon to 1:45 pm­Note: This is the final time that Independence Market and Literature will be open. Tuesday 7:00 to 10:00 pm­Exhibit Hall only; Independence Market and Literature closed) There is a special event for sponsor-level exhibitors only on Monday, July 6, from 7:00 to 10:00 pm (see “Special Attention” section and agenda listing for more information). Sign up for NFB-NEWSLINE® at the NEWSLINE table, check the agenda for times to visit Room 6401 to learn about it, or call local number (313) 483-1147 to use NEWSLINE at convention. Any alterations in the general session schedule which may occur during the convention will result in conforming shifts in the exhibit schedule and will be announced in the exhibit areas. A number of affiliated NFB divisions and committees have tables. Many new electronic devices are demonstrated, as well as a special exhibit of materials and resources for the deaf-blind. MEETINGS General sessions of the convention are being held in the Renaissance Ballroom, Level 4 on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. The morning sessions convene at 9:30 am on Monday, and 9:00 am on Tuesday and Wednesday. The convention adjourns promptly at 5:00 pm on Wednesday, July 8. Please note that all requests for announcements by Dr. Maurer during general sessions must be submitted in Braille. BANQUET AND BANQUET TICKET EXCHANGE The banquet is being held in the Renaissance Ballroom, Level 4 at 7:00 pm, Wednesday, July 8. Banquet tickets purchased at convention are $40.00 (the cost was $35 if purchased before May 31) and are on sale during registration on Saturday and Sunday, and from noon to 12:30 and 1:30 to 2:00 pm on Monday. No banquet tickets will be available for purchase after Monday. It will be necessary to have your banquet ticket with you to attend the banquet; it will be collected at the banquet table. Arrangements should be made for reserved table assignments by taking the ticket(s) you purchase to the Banquet Exchange Table in the registration area, where you may exchange either an individual ticket or a group of tickets for reserved seating. Banquet tables seat ten people. RELIGIOUS SERVICES AND DEVOTIONS On Sunday, July 5, Fr. Gregory Paul, C.P., will celebrate a Roman Catholic Mass at 7:15 am in Ambassador Ballroom One, Level 3. Also on Sunday at 11:45 am services for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will be held in Ambassador Ballroom One, Level 3. Devotional services will be held in Ambassador Ballroom One, Level 3, at 7:30 am on Tuesday, and 8:00 am on Wednesday. Please note there is no service on Monday morning. Services are nonsectarian and will end at least fifteen minutes prior to morning convention sessions. knfbReader MOBILE THE CELL PHONE THAT READS PRINT With the power of digital photography and unique cell phone software, reading print on the go wherever you are is now possible for blind people. Come and learn about this fabulous, life-changing technology in the exhibit hall and at demonstration and training sessions planned in the afternoon on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday and in the evening on Tuesday. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! SPECIAL ATTENTION IS CALLED TO THE FOLLOWING ITEMS • A Federation Information Desk will be in the registration area from Saturday morning, July 4, through Wednesday, July 8, if you have questions or need assistance. The Michigan affiliate will also maintain a table near the hotel check in desk in the main lobby to provide assistance and hospitality during much of the convention. • When you register, you will be given a badge. Please wear it at all times during the convention. • The room number for the Presidential Suite is 7010. Someone will be on hand in the Presidential Suite throughout most of the convention to greet you and make appointments for you with the President or anyone else you wish to see. The Presidential Suite will not be open during the business sessions of the convention, the Sunday morning Board of Directors meeting, Monday morning (due to the Independence March), or the Wednesday evening banquet. Come to the Presidential Suite. You will be most welcome. • The room number for Mary Ellen Jernigan, Chairwoman of Convention Organization and Activities, is 6910. Questions concerning hotel rooms, meeting rooms, banquet, scheduling, registration, and other matters dealing with convention arrangements should be referred to the Chairwoman of Convention Organization and Activities. • Individuals needing to conduct business with the NFB Treasurer may do so by going to the DaVinci Room, Level 4 on Monday, July 6, between 5:30 and 7:30 pm, or on Tuesday, July 7, between 12:00 noon and 2:00 pm. • The Michigan Suite (Fred Wurtzel, President) is 6805. • The Affiliate Action and Rookie Activities Suite (Joanne Wilson and Pam Allen, Coordinators) is 6801. • We are again offering NFB Camp (child-care services) for children six weeks through ten years of age in Marquette A and B Rooms, Level 5 during convention sessions, most meetings, and the banquet. Preregistration and payment by June 15 were required for NFB Camp. NFB Camp is organized and supervised by Carla McQuillan, the executive director of Main Street Montessori Association. Alison McQuillan, camp worker and teacher since 1998, is the activities director. Please note that NFB Camp provides morning and afternoon snacks, but parents are required to provide lunch for their child(ren) every day. Times listed are the opening and closing times for NFB Camp. A late fee of $10 will be assessed for all late pickups. NFB Camp hours: Friday, 7/3 8:30 am to 5:30 pm Saturday, 7/4 Closed Sunday, 7/5 8:30 am to 12:30 pm and 1:00 to 5:30 pm Monday, 7/6 9:00 am to 12:30 pm and 1:30 to 5:30 pm Tuesday, 7/7 8:30 am to 12:30 pm and 1:30 to 5:30 pm Wednesday, 7/8 8:30 am to 12:30 pm and 1:30 to 5:30 pm Banquet 7/8 6:30 pm to 30 minutes after closing • A Special Evening For Sponsor-Level Exhibitors: Again this year, the exhibit hall will reopen from 7:00 to 10:00 pm on Monday, July 6, for a very special evening dedicated solely to Sponsor-Level Exhibitors listed here. Come and bring a guest to say “thank you” to our sponsors and to enjoy their interesting offers and demonstrations. Our convention sponsors are­Platinum: HumanWare and UPS; Gold: Deque Systems, Inc., Freedom Scientific, and Oracle; Silver: En-Vision America, Intel®, and Wal-Mart; Bronze: Adobe, Council of U.S. Dog Guide Schools (CUSDGS), IBM, Independent Living Aids (ILA), and Microsoft; Exhibit Hall: GW Micro, J&B Medical Supply, National Industries for the Blind, ReadHowYouWant, and Roche Diagnostics. • The ever-popular Showcase of Talent is back again at 7:00 pm on Tuesday, July 7, presented by the Performing Arts Division. Admission price is $5.00. If you would like to participate in the Showcase, make sure to sign up early by contacting Beth Allred at the convention. • Raffle tickets will not be sold in the registration area, and no raffles or other such drawings will take place during convention sessions or at the banquet. The single exception to this rule will be that national divisions may (if they request it in advance) conduct such drawings during the convention or at the banquet. LaSalle A Room, Level 5 will be set aside at 12:00 noon on Wednesday, July 8, for all other drawings. Any group or affiliate wishing to conduct drawings at this time (or any person wishing to know the winners) may go at noon on Wednesday to the LaSalle A Room. AFFILIATED DIVISIONS, COMMITTEES, AND GROUPS The Federation carries on its business through divisions, committees, and groups. The meetings of some of these have been scheduled for particular times and are listed in the agenda. Others have not been formally scheduled but will meet at the call of their chairpersons or presidents. If you have matters that you would like to discuss with any of the following divisions, committees, or groups, you should contact: Divisions: • Agriculture and Equestrian: Fred Chambers, President; • Assistive Technology Trainers: Michael Barber, President; • Classics, Antiques, and Rods or Special Interest Vehicles (CARS): Joseph B. Naulty, President; • Deaf-Blind: Burnell Brown, President; • Diabetes Action Network for the Blind: Michael Freeman, President; • Human Services: Melissa Riccobono, President; • National Association of the Blind in Communities of Faith: Tom Anderson, President; • National Association of Blind Entrepreneurs: James R. Bonerbo, President; • National Association of Blind Lawyers: Scott LaBarre, President; • National Association of Blind Merchants: Kevan Worley, President; • National Association of Blind Office Professionals: Lisa Hall, President; • National Association of Blind Piano Technicians: Don Mitchell, President; • National Association of Blind Rehabilitation Professionals: Melody Lindsey, President; • National Association of Blind Students: Terri Rupp, President; • National Association of Blind Veterans: Dwight Sayer, President; • National Association of Guide Dog Users: Marion Gwizdala, President; • National Association to Promote the Use of Braille (NAPUB): Nadine Jacobson, President; • National Federation of the Blind in Computer Science: Curtis Chong, President; • National Federation of the Blind Krafters: Joyce Kane, President; • National Federation of the Blind Seniors: Judy Sanders, President; • National Organization of Blind Educators: Sheila Koenig, President; • National Organization of Parents of Blind Children (NOPBC): Carol Castellano, President; • Performing Arts: Dennis Holston, President; • Public Employees: Ivan Weich, President; • Science and Engineering: John Miller, President; • Sports and Recreation: Lisamaria Martinez, President; • Travel and Tourism: Don Gillmore, President; • Writers: Robert Leslie Newman, President. Committees: • Ambassadors: Angela Wolf, Chairperson; • Blind Educator of the Year Award: David Ticchi, Chairperson; • Committee on Assistive Technology (COAT): Curtis Chong, Chairperson; • Committee on Automobile and Pedestrian Safety (CAPS): Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson; • Committee to Empower Underserved Populations (CEUP): Ron Brown, Chairperson; • Cultural Exchange and International Program: Diane McGeorge, Chairperson; • Distinguished Educator of Blind Children Award: Joyce Scanlan, Chairperson; • Employment: Buna Dahal, Chairperson; • Imagination Fund: Kevan Worley, Chairperson; • Jacobus tenBroek Award: Ramona Walhof, Chairperson; • Jacobus tenBroek Memorial Fund: Tami Jones, Chairperson; • Kenneth Jernigan Fund: Allen Harris, Chairperson; • Library Services: David Hyde, Chairperson; • Loan Fund: Donald C. Capps, Chairperson; • Membership: Ron Gardner, Chairperson; • Newel Perry Award: Allen Harris, Chairperson; • Newsletter Publications: Norma Crosby, Chairperson; • NFB-NEWSLINE® Program Steering: David DeNotaris, Chairperson; • PAC Plan: Scott LaBarre, Chairperson; • Planned Giving: John Halverson, Chairperson; • Promotion, Evaluation, and Advancement of Technology: Gary Wunder, Chairperson; • Public Relations: Barbara Pierce, Chairperson; • Research and Development: Curtis Chong, Chairperson; • Resolutions: Sharon Maneki, Chairperson; • Scholarship: Anil Lewis, Chairperson; • Shares Unlimited in NFB (SUN): Sandy Halverson, Chairperson; • Spanish Translation: Norman Gardner, Chairperson; • White Cane and Affiliate Finance: Alpidio Rolón, Chairperson. Groups: • Blind Musicians: Linda Mentink, Chairperson; • Blind Parents: Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson; • Blind Professional Journalists: Elizabeth Campbell and Bryan Bashin, Co-Chairpersons; • Educators of Blind Children: Gail Wagner, Chairperson; • Geordi's Engineers: Lorraine Rovig, Chairperson; • Legislative Initiatives Discussion: Don Burns, Coordinator; • Living History: Michael Freholm, Chairperson; • NFB Ham Radio: D. Curtis Willoughby, Chairperson; • NFB in Judaism: David Stayer, Chairperson; • NFB Lions: Ramona Walhof and Milton Ota, Co-Chairpersons; • Orientation and Mobility: Edward C. Bell, Chairperson; • Professionals in Blindness Education: Heather Field, Chairperson; • Webmasters: Gary Wunder, Chairperson. CONVENTION AGENDA Whozit FRIDAY, JULY 3, 2009 7:30 - 8:45 am­HAM RADIO GROUP EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS Raphael Room, Level 4 Discuss hotel frequencies and architectural features and distributing special FM receivers for the hearing-impaired and Spanish-speaking attendees. D. Curtis Willoughby (KA0VBA), Chairperson 7:45 am - 6:30 pm­THE FUTURE IS OURS AND THEIRS Parent, Rehabilitation, and Orientation & Mobility Joint Conference for Families and Rehabilitation Professionals (7:45 - 8:45 am­Registration and coffee; 12:00 to 2:00 pm­NBPCB Awards Luncheon, Ambassador Three Ballroom) Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 NOPBC Fees: Adults $30; Youth (13-18) $20; Children (5-12) $10 NABRP Fees (includes lunch): Students $75; Professionals $100 Note: Conference admission included with either registration above. Sponsors: National Organization of Parents of Blind Children (NOPBC); National Blindness Professional Certification Board (NBPCB); National Association of Blind Rehabilitation Professionals (NABRP); and the Professional Development & Research Institute on Blindness (PDRIB) at the Louisiana Tech University. Chairpersons: Carol Castellano and Edward Bell 8:00 am - 4:30 pm­PROFESSIONALS IN BLINDNESS EDUCATION Duluth B Room, Level 5 Heather Field, Chairperson 8:30 am­NFB CAMP: IT’S MORE THAN CHILD’S PLAY (CHILD CARE) Marquette A and B Rooms, Level 5 Please see “Special Attention” section of agenda for further information. (Preregistration by June 15 was required.) 8:30 - 11:30 am­WHAT’S NEW IN JAWS 10 AND MAGic 11, AND A FIRST LOOK AT JAWS 11­FREEDOM SCIENTIFIC, INC. Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 Join Eric Damery, JAWS Product Manager, for an exciting and informative session covering all of the new details surrounding JAWS and MAGic development. This will also be the first look at JAWS 11 scheduled for public beta in August and includes a demo of Windows 7. Bring questions! Whozit FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 8:30 am - 5:00 pm­IBTC’S ACCESS TECHNOLOGY SEMINARS Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 8:30 - 10:00 am­Mobile productivity on cell phones. 10:30 am - noon­Create DAISY books from your desktop. 1:30 - 3:00 pm­Web 2.0 features with screen access software. 3:30 - 5:00 pm­Lesser-known names in screen access software. 9:00 am - 12:00 noon­GW MICRO: BRAILLE SENSE PLUS AND VOICE SENSE­Registration $10; Refreshments provided. Nicolet A Room, Level 5 The Braille Sense Plus is the lightest note taker with a 32-cell Braille display, and the Voice Sense is the smallest note taker. Learn about the features of GW note takers including the GW Sense Navigation GPS. Presenters: Raul Gallegos and Chris Park. To register, call (260) 489-3671. 9:00 am - 5:00 pm­NFB YOUTH TRACK SESSIONS (ages 14-18) Sponsored by NFB Jernigan Institute; Mary Jo Thorpe, Coordinator Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 9:00 - 10:15 am­PARENTS-REHAB SEMINAR Cascade B Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott 10:30 am - 12:00 noon­ALL ABOUT ME Help shape the future of youth outreach for the NFB. 2:00 - 3:00 pm­BACK & BICEPS, CHEST & TRICEPS Learn the “ropes” about working out in a gym. 3:30 - 5:00 pm­ME AND YOUTUBE An interactive YouTube activity for teens. 9:00 am - 10:00 pm­NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATIONS Room 6401, 60th floor 9:00-11:00 am, 2:00-6:00 pm, and 8:30-10:00 pm­Learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 11:30 am -1:30 pm­Affiliate presidents’ gathering. Learn about NFB- NEWSLINE Online and how to promote NEWSLINE. 6:30 - 8:00 pm­Exhibit for parents and their blind children (ages 10+). Whozit FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 10:00 am - 5:00 pm­EMPLOYMENT COMMITTEE SEMINAR Richard B Room, Level 5 10:00 am–Registration; 10:30 am–Seminar begins Key strategies for job hunting: How? Where? What? Remember, innovation and authenticity produce abundant opportunities. Gain the secrets of obtaining and maintaining employment. Buna Dahal, Chairperson 10:15 am - 12:00 noon­NOPBC BRAILLE CARNIVAL (ages 5-13) Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 1:00 - 3:00 pm­PAC MATE, BEYOND NOTE TAKING­FREEDOM SCIENTIFIC, INC. Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 Join Jonathan Mosen as we explore the power of PAC Mate Omni, from beaming your KNFB Reader Mobile documents to be read in Braille, to watching TV right from your PAC Mate Omni. See our new StreetTalk VIP GPS solution in action. 1:00 - 3:00 pm­WRITERS DIVISION WORKSHOP ($5.00 fee) Room 6405, 60th floor Visit with a published author. Robert Leslie Newman, President 1:00 - 4:00 pm­SWIM CLINIC; SPORTS & REC DIVISION Pool, Courtyard Marriott Annie Sawicki, part of the AdapTap team (that designed an award-winning device by blind swimmers), is conducting a swimming workshop. Take a break with a cool dip in the pool. Lisamaria Martinez, President 1:00 - 5:00 pm­HUMANWARE PRODUCT SHOWCASE AND USER GROUPS LaSalle A and B Rooms, Level 5 Sessions: 1:00 Breeze; 2:00 BrailleNote; 3:00 Stream; 4:00 Mobile Devices Join HumanWare and other users to learn about recent updates and share product tips. Ask questions and give us your suggestions for your favorite HumanWare product. Door Prizes for every session! 1:30 - 2:45 pm­knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print­it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! Whozit FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 2:00 - 3:30 pm­NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS One-Two Buckle My Shoe, Three-Four Out the Door Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Developmental timelines from preschool through elementary. Instructors: Debbi Head, Heather Field, Annee Hartzell Show Me the Technology: Middle School/High School Renoir Room, Level 4 What is needed, how to work with the school to get it, and what to do when all else fails. Instructors: Dr. Matt Maurer and Al Lovati Literacy for All Skyline B Room, Courtyard Marriott Large print? Braille? Both? How to tell what is best for your child. Great Expectations: Mobility Instruction and Blind Children with Additional Disabilities Skyline A Room, Courtyard Marriott High expectations, real life goals, and how to achieve them in the area of independent travel. Instructor: Denise Mackenstadt 2:00 - 5:00 pm­NOPBC TRIP TO PENRICKTON CENTER Meeting place to be announced Parents of children with significant multiple disabilities can visit this center which uses the Active Learning techniques of Lilli Nielsen. 2:00 - 5:00 pm­NOPBC SESSIONS FOR CHILDREN AND YOUTH (Note to parents: Volunteers will accompany the children from one workshop to the other.) Not-so-mad Scientists: Hands-on Chemistry Experiments: Cascade D Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Dr. Andrew Greenberg, Cary Supalo, Marilyn Winograd, and Dr. Lillian Rankel 2:00 – 3:30 pm­For Kindergarten through Grade 5 3:30 – 5:00 pm­For Grades 6 through 12 Whozit FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued NOPBC SESSIONS FOR CHILDREN AND YOUTH, Cont’d. Tactile Drawings and Representations: Cascade C Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Ann Cunningham and Debbie Kent Stein 2:00 – 3:30 pm­For Grades 6 through 12 3:30 – 5:00 pm­For Kindergarten through Grade 5 2:00 - 5:00 pm­GW MICRO: WINDOW-EYES TRAINING (Registration $10; Refreshments provided) Nicolet A Room, Level 5 Explore the power of Window-Eyes with advanced scripting support, Office 2007, Windows Vista, and Windows 7. Come to see the best support for the Internet in a screen reader. Presenters: Raul Gallegos and Chris Park. To register, call (260) 489-3671. 2:00 - 7:00 pm­KRAFTERS KORNER Richard A Room, Level 5 Meet some talented Federation crafters and purchase their beautiful hand-made items for sale. Joyce Kane, Krafters Division President 3:00 - 4:30 pm­MAKING THE MOST OF YOUR JERNIGAN INSTITUTE (Workshop One; Workshop Two is on Saturday at 4:00 pm) Brulé A Room, Level 5 Attendees will learn the latest information about the Institute and about how they can utilize its programs to build the organization at the local level. We expect the discussion to spark new, imaginative ideas for future programs. Led by Mark Riccobono, Jernigan Institute Executive Director. 3:00 - 4:45 pm­ knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print­it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 3:00 - 5:00 pm­NATIONAL ASSOC. OF BLIND ENTREPRENEURS Brulé B Room, Level 5 James R. Bonerbo, President Whozit FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 3:30 - 4:50 pm­NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS Access for Everyone Skyline A Room, Courtyard Marriott Learn how blind and low-vision children of all abilities can access education and information in school and in the world. Instructor: Dr. Denise Robinson Braille Music for Dummies Skyline B Room, Courtyard Marriott Just enough to stay one step ahead of the kids. Instructors: Jennifer Dunnam and Kyle Conley Spaghetti, Meatballs, and Birthday Parties Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Manners, cafeterias, games, playgrounds, and friends (Pre-K and Elementary) Instructors: Debbi Head and Emily Gibbs Bring Me to the Mall­Text Me Later Renoir Room, Level 4 Manners, food courts, and friends (middle and high school) Instructors: Eric Guillory and Deja Powell 5:00 - 6:30 pm­PARENTS AND REHABILITATION PROFESSIONALS JOINT CONFERENCE RECEPTION Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 6:00 - 10:00 pm­NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GUIDE DOG USERS BUSINESS MEETING Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 6:00 pm–Registration; 7:00 pm–Meeting begins Topics: airline emergency procedures and evacuation; creating and growing state associations of guide dog users; and protecting the rights of guide dog users through advocacy and education. Marion Gwizdala, President Whozit FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 6:30 - 10:00 pm­NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND OFFICE PROFESSIONALS Renoir Room, Level 4 6:30 pm–Registration; 7:00 pm–Meeting begins Featuring a hands-on Braille proofreading workshop. Guest speaker is from Seedlings Braille Books for Children. Lisa Hall, President 7:30 - 10:00 pm­NOPBC FAMILY HOSPITALITY NIGHT Cascade D Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Drop in, relax, and chat in an informal atmosphere. 8:00 - 10:00 pm­NFB LIONS GROUP Room 6405, 60th floor NFB members who are also Lions are urged to meet to share ideas and experiences. Co-Chairpersons: Ramona Walhof and Milton Ota 8:00 - 10:00 pm­ROOKIE ROUNDUP RECEPTION­GAINING INSIGHT FOR FIRST-TIMERS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 First-time conventioneers, don't miss this event! President Maurer and former rookies will be on hand to welcome you and answer questions. Coordinator: Pam Allen, Director of the Louisiana Center for the Blind and President of the NFB of Louisiana 8:00 pm - midnight­KARAOKE NIGHT Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 Admission: $5.00. You'll have a great time. Braille song lists available. Hosted by BLIND, Incorporated 9:00 - 10:00 pm­NFB AMBASSADORS COMMITTEE MEETING Greco Room, Level 4 Angela Wolf, Chairperson Whozit SATURDAY, JULY 4, 2009 9:00 am - 5:00 pm­REGISTRATION ($20); BANQUET TICKET SALES ($40); Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 9:00 am 5:00 pm­EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND LITERATURE­Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 1:00 - 3:00 pm­WHAT’S NEW WITH NFB-NEWSLINE® Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 Presentational seminar about the world’s largest audible newspaper service for the blind and visually impaired. Topics cover newest online initiatives and improvements to the service. 1:00 - 5:00 pm­EXPLORING THE LATEST INNOVATIONS IN MOBILE REFRESHABLE BRAILLE AND TACTILE GRAPHICS TECHNOLOGIES Richard A Room, Level 5 1:00-2:00­ALVA Braille Controller: more than just a Braille display. 2:00-3:00­Talking Tactile Tablet: exploring tactile images, interactive games. 3:00-4:00­Reading On the Go!: read books, texts, etc. using a cell phone. 4:00-5:00­Mobile Geo: a new GPS solution for accessible cell phones. Larry Lewis, President, Flying Blind, Inc. 1:00 - 5:00 pm­NATIONAL CERTIFICATION IN LITERARY BRAILLE (NCLB) OFFICIAL EXAMINATION­SECTIONS ONE AND TWO Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Participants must have preregistered. Exam Sections Three and Four are on Sunday, July 5 (see agenda listing). Sponsored by the National Blindness Professional Certification Board 1:30 pm­RESOLUTIONS COMMITTEE Renaissance Cartier Ballroom, Level 4 Sharon Maneki, Chairperson 1:30 - 2:45 pm­ knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print­it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! Whozit SATURDAY, JULY 4, Continued 2:00 - 5:00 pm­NOPBC SESSIONS FOR CHILDREN AND YOUTH Braille Beats Cascade D Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Kids get into Braille music in a fun way. Instructor: Kyle Conely 2:00 – 3:30 pm­For Kindergarten through Grade 5 3:30 – 5:00 pm­For Grades 6 through 12 You Want to Move It, Move It Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Judo expert Lisamaria Martinez and friends get you moving! 2:00 – 3:30 pm­For Grades 6 through 12 3:30 – 5:00 pm­For Kindergarten through Grade 5 2:30 - 4:30 pm­TRAVEL AND TOURISM DIVISION Raphael Room, Level 4 Don Gillmore, President 3:00 - 4:45 pm­knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print­it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 3:30 - 10:00 pm­NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATIONS Room 6401, 60th floor 3:30-6:00 pm and 8:30-10:00 pm­Learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 6:30-8:00 pm­Gathering for professionals in the field of work with the blind for an evening of presentations and possibilities. 4:00 - 5:30 pm­MAKING THE MOST OF YOUR JERNIGAN INSTITUTE Duluth B Room, Level 5 Attendees will learn the latest information about the Institute and about how they can utilize its programs to build the organization at the local level. We expect the discussion to spark new, imaginative ideas for future programs. Led by Mark Riccobono, Jernigan Institute Executive Director. Whozit SATURDAY, JULY 4, Continued 4:00 - 6:00 pm­SPANISH SEMINAR Brulé B Room, Level 5 Conducted entirely in Spanish. Learn about the Federation, hear from some of our leaders, and network with other Hispanic members. Facilitators: Rosy Carranza and A.Z. Martinez 4:30 - 5:30 pm­WAL-MART AND NFB JERNIGAN INSTITUTE: FUTURE INNOVATIONS FORUM Brulé A Room, Level 5 Join a town hall meeting on Equal Access at the Pharmacy Counter. Discuss emerging issues, best practices, and preferences as a blind or low-vision consumer. Influence future work through the NFB Jernigan Institute to encourage innovative Pharmacy practices and take the opportunity for the world's largest retailer to hear your voice. 4:30 - 6:00 pm­TWELFTH ANNUAL MOCK TRIAL­National Association of Blind Lawyers; Scott LaBarre, President Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 Admission: $5.00. Federation lawyers are pitted against each other reenacting an old Federation case with the audience serving as the jury. 6:00 - 7:30 pm­NEWSLETTER PUBLICATIONS COMMITTEE DaVinci Room, Level 4 Covering state newsletters, formatting a good publication, and publishing in accessible formats. Norma Crosby, Chairperson 6:00 - 10:00 pm­NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND STUDENTS Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 6:00 pm–Registration ($5.00) & Meet-and-Greet; 7:00 pm–Meeting Happy 42nd birthday to NABS! Remember to bring your contact information on a Brailled index card for registration. Terri Rupp, President 6:45 - 7:45 pm­IMAGINATION FUND TRAINING MEETING Greco Room, Level 4 Kevan Worley, Facilitator Whozit SATURDAY, JULY 4, Continued 7:00 - 8:30 pm­NFB AFFILIATE PRESIDENTS AND TREASURERS SEMINAR Nicolet A Room, Level 5 Affiliate presidents and treasurers are asked to attend this seminar about state financial programs, financial data, and planning the end of 2009 and beginning of 2010. Topics include: 990s, state charitable registrations, end-of-year preparations, and other issues. Facilitators: Bridgid Burke and Charlie Brown 7:00 - 8:30 pm­PUBLIC EMPLOYEES DIVISION Richard A Room, Level 5 Ivan Weich, President 7:00 - 9:00 pm­CLASSICS, ANTIQUES, AND RODS (CARS) DIVISION Renoir Room, Level 4 Joseph B. Naulty, President 7:00 - 9:00 pm­“KEYS TO INDEPENDENCE,” NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND PIANO TECHNICIANS SEMINAR Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 Learn how to have a career in piano tuning and repair; it can enhance your independence. Don Mitchell, President 7:30 - 9:30 pm­MEMBERSHIP COMMITTEE Duluth B Room, Level 5 The more we educate, the more we grow. Ron Gardner, Chairperson 7:30 - 10:00 pm­BLIND PARENTS GROUP Brulé B Room, Level 5 Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson 8:00 - 9:00 pm­WHITE CANE AND AFFILIATE FINANCE COMMITTEE Raphael Room, Level 4 Alpidio Rolón, Chairperson 8:00 - 9:30 pm­WEBMASTERS WORKSHOP Greco Room, Level 4 A meeting for all NFB affiliate and division Webmasters. Gary Wunder, Chairperson, Webmasters Group Whozit SATURDAY, JULY 4, Continued 8:00 - 10:00 pm­COMMITTEE ON LIBRARY SERVICES Duluth A Room, Level 5 David Hyde, Chairperson 9:00 - 10:00 pm­SPANISH TRANSLATION COMMITTEE Raphael Room, Level 4 Norman Gardner, Chairperson Whozit SUNDAY, JULY 5, 2009 7:15 - 8:15 am­ROMAN CATHOLIC MASS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 Fr. Gregory Paul, C.P., Celebrant 8:00 am - 10:00 pm­NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATIONS Room 6401, 60th floor 8:00-11:00 am, 1:30-5:30 pm, and 8:30-10:00 pm­Learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 6:00-7:00 pm­Promotion, Evaluation, and Advancement of Technology Committee gathering. Learn about NFB-NEWSLINE’s revolutionary new online initiatives. 8:30 am - 5:00 pm­REGISTRATION ($20); BANQUET TICKET SALES ($40); Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 8:30 am 5:00 pm­ EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND LITERATURE­Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 9:00 11:30 am­NFB BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING (Open to all) Renaissance Ballroom, Level 4 11:45 am - 12:45 pm­THE DIVISION FOR ME­NFB YOUTH TRACK Greco Room, Level 4 A meet-and-greet with NFB division representatives. Coordinator: Mary Jo Thorpe. Co-sponsored by NOPBC and NFB Jernigan Institute. 11:45 am - 1:15 pm­CHURCH SERVICES FOR THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 12:00 noon - 2:00 pm­ROOKIE ROUNDUP GATHERING Affiliate Action Suite 6801 Attention rookies! Participate in a gathering of fun for first-time conventioneers. This is a great opportunity to meet new people and have your convention questions answered by experienced Federationists. Whozit SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 12:30 - 4:00 pm­DIABETES ACTION NETWORK FOR THE BLIND Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 12:30 pm – Registration; 1:00 pm – Meeting begins Keynote speaker is Ann S. Williams, PhD, RN, CDE, a diabetes educator with much experience with diabetic issues. Mike Freeman, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm­NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS Richard A Room, Level 5 12:30 pm – Registration; 1:00 pm – Meeting begins Examine laws affecting blind people and others with disabilities; address ongoing struggles to gain equal access to Web sites, employment, legal texts and exams. Scott LaBarre, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm­NFB IN COMPUTER SCIENCE LaSalle B Room, Level 5 12:30 pm – Registration; 1:00 pm – Meeting begins Discuss recent releases, concerns of information technology professionals, and other topics. Curtis Chong, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm­“OVERCOMING OBSTACLES THROUGH COURAGE AND DETERMINATION”­National Association of the Blind in Communities of Faith Cadillac A Room, Level 5 12:30 pm – Registration; 1:00 pm – Meeting begins; Tom Anderson, President 12:30 5:00 pm­REVOLUTIONIZING RANDOLPH-SHEPPARD NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND MERCHANTS MEETING Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 12:30 pm – Registration; 1:30 pm – Meeting begins Those involved in the Randolph-Sheppard program or who operate a similar business discuss protection of the priority and the creation of new business opportunities and outreach. Kevan Worley, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm­SPORTS AND RECREATION DIVISION Skyline A Room, Courtyard Marriott 12:30 pm – Registration; 1:00 pm – Meeting begins Wear your sweats and come ready for hands-on presentations in yoga and much more! Lisamaria Martinez, President Whozit SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 12:45 - 4:30 pm­MIDDLE SCHOOL BIG ADVENTURE! (Ages 9-14) Meet (and return) at back of Cascade A and B Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott Hang out as a group and have fun exploring with blind mentors Michael Freholm and Garrick Scott. 1:00 - 3:00 pm­BLIND PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISTS GROUP Duluth A Room, Level 5 Elizabeth Campbell, Chairperson 1:00 3:00 pm­CULTURAL EXCHANGE AND INTERNATIONAL PROGRAM COMMITTEE Duluth B Room, Level 5 Diane McGeorge, Chairperson 1:00 3:00 pm­“GRABBING HEADLINES FOR YOUR AFFILIATE” SEMINAR­PUBLIC RELATIONS COMMITTEE Nicolet B Room, Level 5 Topics: locating press contacts; drafting press releases; developing relationships with reporters and editors; working effectively with the media. Barbara Pierce, Chairperson; Seminar conducted by Chris Danielsen and Jessica Freeh, NFB Public Relations 1:00 - 3:00 pm­NOPBC DIVISION ANNUAL MEETING: MAKING THEIR FUTURE DREAMS COME TRUE Cascade A and B Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott Carol Castellano, President 1:00 - 4:00 pm­PERFORMING ARTS DIVISION DaVinci Room, Level 4 Unveiling the “Music of the Movement” album. Hear from an artist recruiter about a media company paving the way for blind audio professionals. Dennis Holston, President 1:00 - 4:00 pm­WRITERS DIVISION BUSINESS MEETING Renoir Room, Level 4 Robert Leslie Newman, President Whozit SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 1:00 - 4:30 pm­NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF BLIND EDUCATORS Brulé B Room, Level 5 1:00 pm – Registration; 1:30 pm – Meeting begins Blind teachers discuss techniques they use in their classrooms; meeting in groups specific to grade level and content areas of interest to create a network of mentors. Sheila Koenig, President 1:00 - 5:00 pm­AUTO SHOW (CLASSICS, ANTIQUES, AND SPECIAL INTEREST VEHICLES) Location to be announced. Joe Naulty, CARS Division President 1:00 - 5:00 pm­NATIONAL CERTIFICATION IN LITERARY BRAILLE (NCLB) OFFICIAL EXAMINATION­SECTIONS THREE AND FOUR Cascade C and D Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott Participants must have preregistered. Sponsored by the National Blindness Professional Certification Board 1:00 - 5:00 pm­NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND REHABILITATION PROFESSIONALS Brulé A Room, Level 5 1:00 pm – Registration; 2:00 pm – Meeting begins Network, share mutual interests, find placement strategies, and examine and discuss concerns and current issues. Melody Lindsey, President 1:00 - 5:00 pm­“SENIORS IN CHARGE” NFB SENIORS DIVISION MEETING & (SOMEWHAT) SILENT AUCTION Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 Find out ways to spread our message of hope to newly blind seniors. We’re also having our popular not-so-silent auction. Judy Sanders, President 1:00 - 6:00 pm­HUMAN SERVICES DIVISION SEMINAR AND BUSINESS MEETING Nicolet A Room, Level 5 1:00 pm – Registration; 2:00 pm – Meeting begins; 5:00 pm – Networking Psychologists, social workers, counselors, and music or dance therapists meeting to network and ask questions. Melissa Riccobono, President Whozit SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 1:30 - 4:45 pm­knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Session One: 1:30 - 2:45 pm; Session Two: 3:00 - 4:45 pm Use your cell phone to read print­it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 3:00 - 4:30 pm­NOPBC PARENT POWER WORKSHOP Cascade A and B Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott Parent leaders from around the country share their experiences. Moderator: Barbara Mathews 3:15 - 4:45 pm­MEET THE BLIND MONTH ACTIVITIES AND OTHER SPECIAL EVENTS SEMINAR: PLANS AND ACTION EQUAL SUCCESS Duluth B Room, Level 5 October is “Meet the Blind Month.” Find out about events that are entertaining and fun and encouraging chapters to try new types of fundraising and meet-and-greet events. Jerry Lazarus, NFB Jernigan Institute 5:00 - 6:30 pm­NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS RECEPTION Richard B Room, Level 5 For NABL members and seminar participants to promote networking and fellowship within our membership. Hors d'oeuvres and cash bar available. Scott LaBarre, President 5:00 - 7:00 pm­BRAILLE BOOK FLEA MARKET Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Happy Birthday, Louis Braille! Browse tables of new and used Braille and print/Braille books. UPS volunteers will ship the books to your home free of charge. Donations requested to support the Braille Readers are Leaders program. Cake and snacks for browsers. Cosponsored by NOPBC and NAPUB. Coordinator: Peggy Chong 5:00 - 8:00 pm­JUDO WORKSHOP; SPORTS & REC DIVISION Skyline B Room, Courtyard Marriott Join USA Judo and paralympian bronze medal winner Greg DeWall to learn about judo from people involved in the sport. See you on the mat! Lisamaria Martinez, President Whozit SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 5:30 - 7:00 pm­KURZWEIL 1000 USERS’ MEETING Richard A Room, Level 5 Join the Kurzweil 1000 Users’ Contingent! Meet with Steve Baum, Vice President of Engineering, and share some Kurzweil 1000 experiences. Kurzweil 1000 is our state-of-the-art, text-to-speech and life navigation software for blind and visually impaired readers. 5:30 - 7:30 pm­AGRICULTURE AND EQUESTRIAN DIVISION Duluth A Room, Level 5 Fred Chambers, President 6:00 - 10:00 pm­BACK TO BASICS: FOUNDATIONS IN MEMBERSHIP AND CHAPTER DEVELOPMENT Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 Topics: running a purposeful chapter meeting, community projects and chapter fundraising, and weaving Federation philosophy into local meetings. NFB Affiliate Action Team 6:00 - 10:00 pm­DEAF BLIND DIVISION Nicolet B Room, Level 5 6:00 pm – Registration; 7:00 pm – Meeting begins Burnell Brown, President 6:00 - 10:00 pm­NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GUIDE DOG USERS SEMINAR 6:00 pm – Registration; 7:00 pm – Meeting begins Brulé A Room, Level 5 Topics: Islam, the Koran, and guide dogs; Training Centers and Guide Dogs: a panel discussion; and massage for dogs. You can also “test drive” a guide dog! Marion Gwizdala, President 6:30 - 9:00 pm­ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGY TRAINERS DIVISION Renoir Room, Level 4 6:30 pm – Registration; 7:00 pm – Meeting begins Note-taking devices to recommend to clients and what to do about students who are seemingly “unteachable.” Michael Barber, President Whozit SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 6:30 - 9:30 pm­SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING DIVISION Cascade A and B Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott 6:30 pm – Registration; 7:00 pm – Meeting begins John Miller, President 7:00 - 8:30 pm­LIVING HISTORY GROUP Nicolet A Room, Level 5 Dedicated to recording, preserving, and appreciating Federation history. Michael Freholm, Chairperson 7:00 - 8:30 pm­“SOMETIMES TRUTH REPELS” a play by Jerry Whittle (Admission: $5.00; Second Performance is at 9:00 pm) Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 A play about the teaching career of Louis Braille performed by the Louisiana Center for the Blind Players. Proceeds go to the Louisiana Center for the Blind’s summer training program for blind children. 7:00 - 9:00 pm­COMMITTEE TO EMPOWER UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS LaSalle B Room, Level 5 Ron Brown, Chairperson 7:00 - 9:00 pm­FEDERATION RE-GENERATION Duluth B Room, Level 5 Do you need to rejuvenate and kick-start your affiliate with fresh ideas? Re-generate! Get a new generation involved. Join the NFB Jernigan Institute Education Team to learn more about program possibilities. 7:00 - 9:00 pm­NFB KRAFTERS DIVISION BUSINESS MEETING Cadillac A Room, Level 5 Unveiling new craft initiatives, including plans for a new Web site and information on our Monday night nationwide chats. Joyce Kane, President 7:00 - 9:00 pm­NATIONAL ASSOCIATION TO PROMOTE THE USE OF BRAILLE (NAPUB) SEMINAR Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 Celebrating Louis Braille’s 200th birthday! Receive information about the commemorative Louis Braille silver dollar, the NFB Share Braille Web site project, and more. Nadine Jacobson, President Whozit SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 7:00 - 9:00 pm­NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND VETERANS LaSalle A Room, Level 5 Guest speakers; reviewing access technology; unveiling the 2009 NABV pin. Pay dues and receive an NABV-3 shirt. Dwight Sayer, President 7:00 - 10:00 pm­MARCH FOR INDEPENDENCE MARCHER DROP-IN BRIEFINGS (THREE SEPARATE SESSIONS) Brulé B Room, Level 5 Session One: 7:00-8:00 pm; Session Two 8:00-9:00 pm; Session Three 9:00-10:00 pm. Drop in anytime and help us lead the 2009 March for Independence. Facilitator: Kevan Worley 7:30 - 9:00 pm­DADS’ NIGHT OUT Contact Brad Weatherd for location All dads, sighted and blind, are welcome. Sponsored by the NOPBC 7:30 - 9:00 pm­NFB IN JUDAISM MEETING Room 6405, 60th Floor David Stayer, Chairperson 7:30 - 10:00 pm­COMMITTEE FOR THE PROMOTION, EVALUATION, AND ADVANCEMENT OF TECHNOLOGY; Gary Wunder, Chairperson Greco Room, Level 4 8:00 - 9:30 pm­MAKING BRAILLE BOOKS FOR CHILDREN Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Make Braille books at home that will inspire your child to read and explore. Sponsored by NOPBC. Instructors: Carlton Walker and Krystal Guillory 9:00 - 10:30 pm­“SOMETIMES TRUTH REPELS,” a play by Jerry Whittle (Second Performance) Admission: $5.00 Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 A play about the teaching career of Louis Braille performed by the Louisiana Center for the Blind Players. Proceeds go to the Louisiana Center for the Blind’s summer training program for blind children. 9:30 - 10:30 pm­FRIENDS OF RECOVERY MEETING Raphael Room, Level 4 Coordinator: Gary Ray A group of Whozits marching together. MONDAY, JULY 6, 2009 6:45 am­MOTOR CITY MARCH FOR INDEPENDENCE RALLY! Please gather in the Wintergarden on Level A of the Detroit Marriott for a 7:00 am start. NOTE: Because of the March for Independence, there are no registration, devotions, Independence Market and Literature, or Exhibit Hall activities on Monday morning. ************************************************** OPENING GENERAL SESSION 9:30 am INVOCATION 9:35 am WELCOMING CEREMONIES 9:55 am CELEBRATION OF FREEDOM: VETERANS RECOGNIZED Dwight Sayer, President, National Association of Blind Veterans, National Federation of the Blind; Winter Gardens, Florida 10:05 am ROLL CALL OF STATES AND APPOINTMENT OF NOMINATING COMMITTEE 11:45 am REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 12:00 pm ADJOURN ************************************************** 12:00 noon 12:30 pm and 1:30 - 2:00 pm­REGISTRATION ($20); FINAL BANQUET TICKET SALES ($40)­Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 12:00 noon 1:45 pm­EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND LITERATURE­Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 12:00 noon - 1:30 pm­NFB CHAPTER PRESIDENTS MEETING AFFILIATE ACTION SUITE 6801 Informal gathering for NFB chapter presidents only to discuss issues of interest to Federationists at the grassroots level. Chapter presidents attending this convention should not miss this important meeting. Whozit MONDAY, JULY 6, Continued 12:15 - 2:00 pm­LOUISIANA CENTER FOR THE BLIND ALUMNI LUNCHEON Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Contact: Pam Allen, Director, Louisiana Center for the Blind ************************************************** GENERAL SESSION 2:00 pm CALL TO ORDER 2:05 pm PRESIDENTIAL REPORT, Marc Maurer 3:00 pm POLICIES TO ENHANCE EMPLOYMENT, INCLUSION, SAFETY, AND PRODUCTIVITY The Honorable John D. Dingell, Member of Congress, 15th Congressional District; Michigan 3:20 pm PROMOTING PEDESTRIAN SAFETY: A PRIORITY FOR MANUFACTURERS The Honorable Dave McCurdy, President and CEO, Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers; McLean, Virginia 3:40 pm THE JOURNEY OF BRAILLE: FROM THE HANDS OF THE CREATOR TO EARTH ORBIT 4:00 pm THE VALUE OF A COIN, OF A COMMUNICATION SYSTEM, AND OF A CLASS OF HUMAN BEINGS Fredric K. Schroeder, Ph.D., Research Professor, San Diego State University; Vienna, Virginia 4:25 pm PROVIDING THE FUNDAMENTAL TOOLS: BRAILLE BOOKS Brian A. McDonald, President, National Braille Press; Boston, Massachusetts 4:40 pm REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 5:00 pm ADJOURN Whozit MONDAY, JULY 6, Continued 5:30 - 6:30 pm­NOMINATING COMMITTEE; Sharon Maneki, Chairperson Cadillac A Room, Level 5 6:00 - 8:00 pm­AFB INTRODUCES ACCESSIBLE WALKING DIRECTIONS AND NEW CareerConnect FEATURES Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 The American Foundation for the Blind’s reception introduces Mapquest Accessible Walking Directions and new CareerConnect offerings. Be the first to try a free on-line directions service. Join up as a CareerConnect leader or mentor. We look forward to reconnecting with old friends. 6:00 - 9:00 pm­INDOOR ROWING; SPORTS & REC DIVISION Skyline A and B Rooms, Courtyard Marriott Row your way into fitness and maintain a healthy lifestyle using an accessible rowing machine. Prizes plus plenty of fun! Lisamaria Martinez, President 6:30 - 8:00 pm­GUITAR SEMINAR LaSalle B Room, Level 5 Learn about the guitar; get advice from a professional musician, Cameron Strife; $5 donation. Presented by the NFB Performing Arts Division 6:30 - 10:00 pm­NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATION Room 6401, 60th floor Drop by and learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 7:00 - 8:30 pm­NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS, REHAB PROFESSIONALS, AND INTERESTED OTHERS: IEPs: Evals, Goals, Strategies, the Law Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructor: Carlton Walker The Science of Getting in on Science Cascade B Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Cary Supalo, Marilyn Winograd, Dr. Lillian Rankel Mental Mapping: Using Environmental Sounds and Clues Cascade C Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructor: Daniel Kish Whozit MONDAY, JULY 6, Continued 7:00 - 8:30 pm­BOOKSHARE AT NFB MEMBER PARTY LaSalle A Room, Level 5 Enjoy snacks and refreshments while meeting the Bookshare staff. This is your opportunity to talk with us and share your ideas; we’re here to listen. Plan to have fun with contests, drawings, and interacting with your fellow members. We look forward to seeing you. 7:00 - 9:00 pm­BRAILLE READERS ARE LEADERS: THE INITIATIVE FOR CHANGE Duluth B Room, Level 5 One representative from each affiliate should attend this session. Help to ensure Braille literacy for all by learning about the exciting developments and discuss strategies for promoting Louis Braille bicentennial coins. 7:00 - 9:00 pm­MOVING LEGISLATION ON THE STATE AND NATIONAL LEVEL SEMINAR Cadillac B Room, Level 5 Each affiliate should send one representative. Learn the best methods of increasing support for our legislative priorities. Changing lives through laws is our business. Led by Jesse Hartle, NFB Strategic Initiatives Staff 7:00 - 10:00 pm­A SPECIAL EVENING FOR SPONSOR-LEVEL EXHIBITORS Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 The exhibit hall reopens for an evening dedicated solely to sponsor-level exhibitors. Come and bring a guest to say “thank you” to our sponsors and to enjoy their interesting offers and demonstrations. Our convention sponsors are­Platinum: HumanWare and UPS; Gold: Deque Systems, Inc., Freedom Scientific, and Oracle; Silver: En-Vision America, Intel®, and Wal-Mart; Bronze: Adobe, Council of U.S. Dog Guide Schools (CUSDGS), IBM, Independent Living Aids (ILA), and Microsoft; Exhibit Hall: GW Micro, J&B Medical Supply, National Industries for the Blind, ReadHowYouWant, and Roche Diagnostics. 7:00 - 10:00 pm­NOPBC CHILDREN’S ACTIVITY (ages 5-13) A UNIVERSALLY FUN TIME Cascade D Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Drop in and explore the universe with Noreen Grice; volunteers led by Michael Freholm Whozit MONDAY, JULY 6, Continued 7:00 - midnight­NFB OF MICHIGAN HOSPITALITY DANCE Ambassador Ballroom, Level 3 “There may be trouble ahead but while there’s moonlight and music and love and romance let’s face the music and dance!” Join our host affiliate to enjoy dancing or simply listening to some really good music. Entertainment provided by “Nine,” a nine-piece band performing Motown, soul, classic rock, pop, and old standards. 7:30 - 8:30 pm­NFB YOUTH TRACK MEETINGS ME AND THE GOSSIP GIRLS (ages 14-18) Greco Room, Level 4 Girls­bring your questions and thoughts about makeup, dating, or just how to get more involved in your school. ME AND THE GUYS (ages 14-18) Renoir Room, Level 4 Guys­talk about cars, dating, school, or how to nail that perfect job to make a little extra money. 8:00 - 10:00 pm­COMMITTEE ON AUTOMOBILE AND PEDESTRIAN SAFETY (CAPS); Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson Nicolet A Room, Level 5 8:30 - 10:00 pm­NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS, REHAB PROFESSIONALS, AND INTERESTED OTHERS Pro to Pro to Parent to Para­Learn How Your Child’s “Team” Can Work Together Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Dr. Denise Robinson and Gail Wagner Taking the Headaches Out of Adapting in Math Cascade B Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Eric and Krystal Guillory Summer Jobs, Vocational Rehabilitation, and Volunteering Cascade C Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructor: Jan Bailey Whozit TUESDAY, JULY 7, 2009 7:30 - 8:15 am­DEVOTIONS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 8:00 8:30 am­REGISTRATION ($20) Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 ************************************************** GENERAL SESSION 9:00 am INVOCATION 9:05 am FINANCIAL REPORT 10:00 am ELECTIONS 10:30 am EXPANDING ACCESS TO DIGITAL INFORMATION FOR THE BLIND Gilles Pepin, Chief Executive Officer, HumanWare; Drummondville, Canada 10:50 am A BLIND ATHLETE IN THE PARALYMPICS Tyler Merren, 2008 U.S. Paralympic Team Member, Men’s Goalball; Kalamazoo, Michigan 11:05 am DEVELOPMENTS AT THE FIRST EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION FOR THE BLIND IN THE UNITED STATES, PERKINS Steven M. Rothstein, President, Perkins School for the Blind; Watertown, Massachusetts 11:25 am THE FEDERATION IN THE WORLD FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE WORLD BLIND UNION Maryanne Diamond, President, World Blind Union; Melbourne, Australia 11:40 am REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 12:00 pm ADJOURN Whozit TUESDAY, JULY 7, Continued 12:00 noon 12:30 pm and 1:30 - 2:00 pm­REGISTRATION ($20) Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 12:00 noon 1:45 pm­EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND LITERATURE­(Final Time Period for Independence Market and Literature) Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 ************************************************** GENERAL SESSION 2:00 pm CALL TO ORDER 2:05 pm STRATEGIC INITIATIVES REPORT John Paré, Executive Director for Strategic Initiatives, National Federation of the Blind; Baltimore, Maryland 2:35 pm REPORTS, RESOLUTIONS, AND OTHER BUSINESS 5:00 pm ADJOURN ************************************************** 6:00 - 10:00 pm­IT WASN'T ME, A MURDER MYSTERY AT THE CLUB Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 Play along as guests at a dance club while private investigators try to solve a murder. Early arrivers are assigned a character role to play for the evening. Latecomers won't be able to play along but are welcome to watch the game and enjoy the experience. Presented by NFB Youth Track. 6:30 - 9:00 pm­COLORADO CENTER FOR THE BLIND OPEN HOUSE Brulé A and B Rooms, Level 5 Discover how good training can change your life. Julie Deden, Director 6:30 - 9:30 pm­NOPBC CHILDREN’S ACTIVITY (Ages 5-14) WE WILL NOT LET CONVENTION ACQUAINTANCES BE FORGOT Cascade C Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Led by Michael Freholm Whozit TUESDAY, JULY 7, Continued 6:30 - 10:00 pm­NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATION Room 6401, 60th floor Stop by and learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 7:00 - 8:15 pm­knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print­it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 7:00 - 8:30 pm­BLIND MUSICIANS GROUP BUSINESS MEETING Duluth B Room, Level 5 Linda Mentink, Chairperson 7:00 - 8:30 pm­NINTH ANNUAL RANDOLPH-SHEPPARD RECEPTION HOSTED BY THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND MERCHANTS Richard B Room, Level 5 Socialize, network, and learn more about Randolph-Sheppard and other business opportunities we can create through our work in the NFB. Kevan Worley, President 7:00 - 9:00 pm­COUNCIL OF U.S. DOG GUIDE SCHOOLS (CUSDGS) RECEPTION Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Learn how a dog guide can impact your life from featured speaker Michael Hingson, a World Trade Center survivor. Meet representatives from participating schools and learn about their programs. You can even schedule a “Juno” walk for later in the week. 7:00 9:00 pm­“SOCIAL SECURITY AND SUPPLEMENTAL SECURITY INCOME: WHAT APPLICANTS, ADVOCATES, AND RECIPIENTS SHOULD KNOW” SEMINAR Cadillac B Room, Level 5 Information on Social Security and SSI benefits, including the income subsidy program for those receiving the Medicare prescription drug benefit. Presenter: Dan Frye, Attorney and Associate Editor of the Braille Monitor Whozit TUESDAY, JULY 7, Continued 7:00 10:00 pm­EXHIBITS ONLY (Independence Market and Literature Closed)­Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 7:00 - 11:00 pm­ANNUAL SHOWCASE OF TALENT­Admission $5.00 Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 Register early by contacting Beth Allred at the convention. Proceeds benefit the scholarship program in memory of Mary Ann Parks. Sponsored by the Performing Arts Division; Dennis Holston, President 7:00 - 11:00 pm­HUMANWARE LOW VISION PRODUCTS SEMINAR Nicolet B Room, Level 5 Come and learn about HumanWare’s exciting low vision products in a hands-on, interactive seminar: myReader 2 video magnifier; SmartView desktop units; portable handheld devices; and a distance viewing system. Presenter: Ed Wikdall 8:00 - 10:00 pm­COMMITTEE ON RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT LaSalle A Room, Level 5 If you have an interest in new technologies and believe that spectacular accomplishments are possible when blind people themselves are involved­then join our meeting. Curtis Chong, Chairperson 8:00 - 11:30 pm­MONTE CARLO NIGHT Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 Try your luck at any of the usual card games found on a casino floor. Prizes go to the top three winners holding the most chips at the end of the evening. Sponsored by the National Association of Blind Students 8:30 - 9:45 pm­knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print­it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 9:30 - 10:30 pm­FRIENDS OF RECOVERY MEETING Raphael Room, Level 4 Coordinator: Gary Ray Whozit WEDNESDAY, JULY 8, 2009 8:00 - 8:45 am­DEVOTIONS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 8:30 9:00 am­REGISTRATION ($20)­Final opportunity to register. Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 ************************************************** GENERAL SESSION 9:00 am INVOCATION 9:05 am THE NEAR-PERFECT AUDIO BOOK: HOW WE DO IT Frank Kurt Cylke, Director, National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Library of Congress; Washington, D.C. Mary Beth Wise, Quality Assurance Specialist, National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Library of Congress; Washington, D.C. 9:25 am QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION 9:30 am THE DEMAND, THE CRISIS, THE SOLUTION IN EDUCATION FOR THE BLIND Edward Bell, Ph.D., Director, Professional Development and Research Institute on Blindness, Louisiana Tech University; Ruston, Louisiana 9:45 am THE THEORY AND THE PRACTICE: EDUCATION FOR THE BLIND IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL Denise M. Robinson, Ph.D., Teacher and Coordinator of Programming for Blind and Visually Impaired Students; Yakima, Washington 10:00 am WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO MAKE THAT CHILD BLIND? Carol Castellano, President, National Organization of Parents of Blind Children, National Federation of the Blind; Madison, New Jersey Whozit WEDNESDAY, JULY 8, Continued 10:20 am TEACHING AN ESSENTIAL SKILL: BRAILLE Jerry Whittle, Teacher-Counselor, Louisiana Center for the Blind; Ruston, Louisiana April Davis, Coordinator of Summer Programs for Blind Children, Louisiana Center for the Blind; Ruston, Louisiana James Mays, Industrial Arts Teacher, Louisiana Center for the Blind; Ruston, Louisiana Deja Powell, Cane Travel Instructor, Utah Division of Services for the Blind and Visually Impaired; Salt Lake City, Utah Anil Lewis, President, National Federation of the Blind of Georgia; Atlanta, Georgia Terri Rupp, President, National Federation of the Blind of Nevada; Las Vegas, Nevada 10:50 am FROM THE CENTER OF HISTORY: FIVE YEARS INTO THE FUTURE OF THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND JERNIGAN INSTITUTE Mark Riccobono, Executive Director, National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute; Baltimore, Maryland 11:10 am FRONTIER CAREERS FOR THE BLIND INCLUDE ENGINEERING Leigh R. Abts, Ph.D., Research Associate Professor of Engineering and Education, University of Maryland; College Park, Maryland 11:25 am NFB NEWSLINE: FROM PHONE TO COMPUTER TO PODCAST TO POCKET Scott White, Director of Sponsored Technology, National Federation of the Blind; Baltimore, Maryland 11:40 am REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 12:00 pm ADJOURN Whozit WEDNESDAY, JULY 8, Continued 12:00 noon - 1:45 pm­HAM RADIO GROUP BUSINESS MEETING Raphael Room, Level 4 We will consider the amendment of the division constitution that we adopted last year. D. Curtis Willoughby (KA0VBA), Chairperson 12:00 noon - 1:45 pm­NFB CAMP TOY SALE Marquette A Room, Level 5 Everything must go­30 to 70 percent off toys purchased for NFB Camp. 12:00 noon - 1:45 pm­RAFFLES AND DRAWINGS LaSalle A Room, Level 5 12:15 - 1:45 pm­EVERYTHING YOU'VE EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT THE NLS Nicolet B Room, Level 5 A question-and-answer session with Frank Kurt Cylke, Director, and staff of the National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Library of Congress. ************************************************** GENERAL SESSION 2:00 pm CALL TO ORDER 2:05 pm SHAPING THE STANDARD FOR THE LEGAL COMMUNITY: THE NECESSITY FOR ACCESS TO INFORMATION FOR ALL Daniel Goldstein, Esq., Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP; Baltimore, Maryland 2:25 pm NEGOTIATING ACCESSIBLE ELECTRONIC BOOKS: A MASSIVE UNDERTAKING, A SMASHING SUCCESS Jack Bernard, Esq., Chair, Counsel for Disability Concerns, and Assistant General Counsel, University of Michigan; Ann Arbor, Michigan 2:45 pm THE COMMITMENT OF MICROSOFT TO ACCESSIBLE TECHNOLOGY Rob Sinclair, Director of Accessibility, Microsoft Corporation; Redmond, Washington Whozit WEDNESDAY, JULY 8, Continued 3:05 pm TRANSCENDING THE BARRIERS OF YESTERDAY, ANTICIPATING THE ROMANCE OF THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE WITH THE TECHNOLOGY OF TOMORROW Ray Kurzweil, President and Chief Executive Officer, KNFB-Reading Technology, Inc.; Wellesley Hills, Massachusetts 3:25 pm REPRESENTING THE CITY OF CHICAGO Patti Chang, Esq., Senior Corporation Counsel, City of Chicago; Chicago, Illinois 3:45 pm DR. JACOB BOLOTIN AWARD Gary Wunder, Chairperson, Dr. Jacob Bolotin Award Committee, and Secretary, National Federation of the Blind; Columbia, Missouri 4:15 pm THE RIGHT OF THE PEDESTRIAN TO BE SAFE IN THE WORLD Ronald Medford, Acting Deputy Administrator, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration; Washington, D.C. 4:30 pm REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 5:00 pm ADJOURN ************************************************** 7:00 pm­BANQUET Renaissance Ballroom, Level 4 INVOCATION MASTER OF CEREMONIES: Fredric K. Schroeder INTRODUCTIONS AND PRESENTATIONS BANQUET ADDRESS: Marc Maurer SCHOLARSHIP AWARDS 10:00 pm - midnight­AFTER BANQUET PARTY Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 10:00 pm­SCIENCE FICTION MEETING All persons interested in science fiction and fantasy are welcome to join in an open discussion. Please contact Ed Meskys for room location. Whozit Thank You... The National Federation of the Blind would like to give a special thank you to VBrick Systems for donating the technology and Internet services to allow full streaming of all general sessions of the convention, the meeting of the board of directors, and the annual banquet. Through this contribution, more individuals will learn about the outstanding work that comes out of the largest gathering of the blind in the world. The National Federation of the Blind acknowledges with gratitude our Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze, and Exhibit Hall Convention Sponsors below. Their messages follow. Platinum Sponsors: HumanWare UPS Gold Sponsors: Deque Systems, Inc. Freedom Scientific Oracle Silver Sponsors: En-Vision America Intel® Wal-Mart Bronze Sponsors: Adobe Council of U.S. Dog Guide Schools (CUSDGS) IBM Independent Living Aids (ILA) Microsoft Exhibit Hall Sponsors: GW Micro J&B Medical Supply National Industries for the Blind ReadHowYouWant Roche Diagnostics David Andrews and white cane Harry. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: clip_image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 9169 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: clip_image003.gif Type: image/gif Size: 2798 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: clip_image005.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1023 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: clip_image007.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1671 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: clip_image009.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3152 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: clip_image010.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 715 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: clip_image011.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1222 bytes Desc: not available URL: From habnkid at aol.com Sat May 23 01:08:16 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 18:08:16 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> Message-ID: <4A174C80.2080405@aol.com> Hello all, I appreciate the feedback. I found out some good news. Once a blind student is accepted to receive accommodations for the LSAT, the Law School Admissions Council will send that student, upon request, braille copies of previous LSATs for practice and study purposes. So, that's one of my plans. I'm also going to try to get one of the transcription agencies to braille an up-to-date LSAT study guide. Haben Haben Girma wrote: > Good Morning, > > Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? > The Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep > books that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the > print copy of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by > the Princeton Review. I called them up today asking that they provide > me with a braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the > customer service woman replied. There are many books currently > unavailable in braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to > acknowledge this reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely > important, I want the best prep books in my most comfortable reading > media: braille. I left a message with the Editorial staff asking for a > braille copy or at least an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. > Shouldn't the Princeton Review be required to provide a braille copy > of their book, as a reasonable accommodation under the ADA? > > Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently > taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? > > p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. > > Haben > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From angie.matney at gmail.com Sat May 23 01:23:38 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 21:23:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <4A174C80.2080405@aol.com> References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> <4A174C80.2080405@aol.com> Message-ID: <4a17501d.07035a0a.3bd1.12f2@mx.google.com> Hi Haben, When I used LSAC's Braille practice materials, they came with a print letter stating that if they were not returned within a few days of the test (I can't remember exactly how long), my score would be withheld. This, combined with the fact that there are no accessible tests until you pay to register and are approved for accommodations, is discriminatory, IMO. Having said that, the Braille test I received was helpful. Best, Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Haben Girma Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:08 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials Hello all, I appreciate the feedback. I found out some good news. Once a blind student is accepted to receive accommodations for the LSAT, the Law School Admissions Council will send that student, upon request, braille copies of previous LSATs for practice and study purposes. So, that's one of my plans. I'm also going to try to get one of the transcription agencies to braille an up-to-date LSAT study guide. Haben Haben Girma wrote: > Good Morning, > > Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? > The Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep > books that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the > print copy of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by > the Princeton Review. I called them up today asking that they provide > me with a braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the > customer service woman replied. There are many books currently > unavailable in braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to > acknowledge this reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely > important, I want the best prep books in my most comfortable reading > media: braille. I left a message with the Editorial staff asking for a > braille copy or at least an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. > Shouldn't the Princeton Review be required to provide a braille copy > of their book, as a reasonable accommodation under the ADA? > > Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently > taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? > > p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. > > Haben > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma il.com From habnkid at aol.com Sat May 23 02:33:41 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 19:33:41 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials In-Reply-To: <4a17501d.07035a0a.3bd1.12f2@mx.google.com> References: <4A13007A.6090107@aol.com> <4A174C80.2080405@aol.com> <4a17501d.07035a0a.3bd1.12f2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A176085.2040606@aol.com> I agree with you, Angie. It's a bit distressing to think I have to spell out what accommodations I need before I can even get a sense of what the test is like. I would love to be able to look at the braille test's Games section to get a better sense of what tools I will need to successfully complete that part of the exam. It is simply discriminatory. Haben Angie Matney wrote: > Hi Haben, > > When I used LSAC's Braille practice materials, they came with a print letter > stating that if they were not returned within a few days of the test (I > can't remember exactly how long), my score would be withheld. This, combined > with the fact that there are no accessible tests until you pay to register > and are approved for accommodations, is discriminatory, IMO. Having said > that, the Braille test I received was helpful. > > Best, > > Angie > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Haben Girma > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:08 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Prep Materials > > Hello all, > > I appreciate the feedback. I found out some good news. Once a blind > student is accepted to receive accommodations for the LSAT, the Law > School Admissions Council will send that student, upon request, braille > copies of previous LSATs for practice and study purposes. So, that's one > of my plans. I'm also going to try to get one of the transcription > agencies to braille an up-to-date LSAT study guide. > > Haben > > Haben Girma wrote: > >> Good Morning, >> >> Are there any LSAT prep materials in braille that are really recent? >> The Library of Congress has nothing. Bookshare.org has three LSAT prep >> books that were published in either 2002 or 2005. I purchased the >> print copy of the 2009 Cracking the LSAT book, which is published by >> the Princeton Review. I called them up today asking that they provide >> me with a braille copy. "Sorry, we don't have a braille copy," the >> customer service woman replied. There are many books currently >> unavailable in braille, but in the case of this book I feel unable to >> acknowledge this reality. Preparing for the LSAT is absolutely >> important, I want the best prep books in my most comfortable reading >> media: braille. I left a message with the Editorial staff asking for a >> braille copy or at least an electronic copy so I can emboss it myself. >> Shouldn't the Princeton Review be required to provide a braille copy >> of their book, as a reasonable accommodation under the ADA? >> >> Those of you who are currently studying for the LSAT or have recently >> taken it, what study methods and materials did you use? >> >> p.s. I can't use audio material because I'm hard-of-hearing. >> >> Haben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From mgmckay at rogers.com Sun May 24 02:02:56 2009 From: mgmckay at rogers.com (Michael G. McKay) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 23:02:56 -0300 Subject: [blindlaw] Hi there: Message-ID: I just found out that there is a Rogue software program that calls itself WinPC Antivirus, This is a malware program that can ruin your cause serious damage to your computer system, I just had a bout with it, and thankfully, it did not cause any damage to my system, My super antivirus took care of the little critter, and removed it could do anything. Please make sure that you delete this program immediately, make sure that your windowsXP firewall is working properly, and that you have Super Antispyware either free, version or, professional installed on your system. Or another effective program that can properly remove these kinds of threats. Cheers! Michael G. McKay BA, '05 333 Cliffe Street, Apt. No. 210, Fredericton, New Brunswick. Canada. E3A 0S8 Home Phone: (506) 449-5885 E-Mail: mgmckay at rogers.com -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.37/2130 - Release Date: 05/23/09 07:00:00 From dnepple at hotmail.com Sun May 24 06:25:52 2009 From: dnepple at hotmail.com (don nepple) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 01:25:52 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] thanks i think that i am o cay.RE: Hi there: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------------------------------------- > From: mgmckay at rogers.com > To: crossofchrist at topica.com > Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 23:02:56 -0300 > Subject: [blindlaw] Hi there: > > > I just found out that there is a Rogue software program that calls itself > WinPC Antivirus, This is a malware program that can ruin your cause serious > damage to your computer system, I just had a bout with it, and thankfully, > it did not cause any damage to my system, My super antivirus took care of > the little critter, and removed it could do anything. Please make sure that > you delete this program immediately, make sure that your windowsXP firewall > is working properly, and that you have Super Antispyware either free, > version or, professional installed on your system. Or another effective > program that can properly remove these kinds of threats. > > Cheers! > Michael G. McKay BA, '05 > 333 Cliffe Street, Apt. No. 210, > Fredericton, New Brunswick. > Canada. E3A 0S8 > Home Phone: (506) 449-5885 > E-Mail: mgmckay at rogers.com > > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® has a new way to see what's up with your friends. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/WhatsNew?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_WhatsNew1_052009 From Ronza.Othman at dhs.gov Wed May 27 14:23:37 2009 From: Ronza.Othman at dhs.gov (Othman, Ronza) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 10:23:37 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Vacancy Announcement - CRCL Programs Division - Program Analyst Message-ID: <74096FB4D17ADA49A21F9BED9B9A33D8014552BB@ZAU1UG-0308.DHSNET.DS1.DHS> The Department of Homeland Security Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Programs Division has openings for Program Analysts posted on USAJobs. The vacancy announcement numbers are FS-254547DE-SW09 (non-status candidates) and FS-254547MP-SW09 (status candidates) and close on Friday, June 5, 2009. The position sensitivity level is Top Secret/SCI. Please forward to anyone who may be eligible and interested. Kind regards, Ronza M. Othman, Esq. Policy Advisor Office for Civil Rights & Civil Liberties U.S. Department of Homeland Security (202) 357-8517 (office) (202) 436-4437 (cell) ronza.othman at dhs.gov www.dhs.gov/civilliberties This message may contain agency deliberative communications, privacy information or other information that may be privileged and exempt from disclosure outside the agency or to the public. Please consult with the Department of Homeland Security, Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties and the Office of General Counsel before disclosing any information contained in this email. From Ronza.Othman at dhs.gov Wed May 27 18:13:50 2009 From: Ronza.Othman at dhs.gov (Othman, Ronza) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 14:13:50 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Vacancy Announcement - CRCL Review and Compliance Unit - Compliance Investigator Message-ID: <74096FB4D17ADA49A21F9BED9B9A33D8014553EC@ZAU1UG-0308.DHSNET.DS1.DHS> The DHS Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Review and Compliance unit has openings for Compliance Investigators posted on USAJobs. The vacancy announcement number is FS-260988-SW09 (status candidates only) and closes on Wednesday, June 10, 2009. Applications will be accepted from current or former Federal employees with competitive status or eligibility for competitive service appointments; displaced Federal employees requesting priority consideration under the Interagency Career Transition Assistance Program (ICTAP); veterans who are preference eligible or who have been separated under honorable conditions after 3 years or more of continuous service; and individuals with disability. Please forward to anyone who may be eligible and interested. Kind regards, Ronza M. Othman, Esq. Policy Advisor Office for Civil Rights & Civil Liberties U.S. Department of Homeland Security (202) 357-8517 (office) (202) 436-4437 (cell) ronza.othman at dhs.gov www.dhs.gov/civilliberties This message may contain agency deliberative communications, privacy information or other information that may be privileged and exempt from disclosure outside the agency or to the public. Please consult with the Department of Homeland Security, Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties and the Office of General Counsel before disclosing any information contained in this email. From Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov Wed May 27 18:36:54 2009 From: Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov (Norman, Gary C. (CMS/CBC)) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 14:36:54 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] ABA TIPS Litigating Animal Law Message-ID: The book in which I am the author in the chapter concerning the law of service animals has been released by the ABA. See the link below. I encourage you to consider acquiring this book. Thanks to the hard work of my fellow authors, and to the support of my editor. Gary http://www.abanet.org/abastore/index.cfm?section=main&fm=Product.AddToCa rt&pid=5190436 From rjs059 at peoplepc.com Thu May 28 02:45:05 2009 From: rjs059 at peoplepc.com (rjs059 at peoplepc.com) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 22:45:05 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Question Message-ID: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst> Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list, at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gublprotocol[1].pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 73926 bytes Desc: not available URL: From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Thu May 28 06:27:44 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 23:27:44 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Question In-Reply-To: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst> References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst> Message-ID: <20090528062744.GM60527@yumi.bluecherry.net> RJ, It's a scanned text page. It needs to be run through an OCR engine. I'll email it back to you off-list, with OCR. Joseph On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 10:45:05PM -0400, rjs059 at peoplepc.com wrote: >Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list, at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov Thu May 28 13:21:45 2009 From: Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov (Norman, Gary C. (CMS/CBC)) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 09:21:45 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Metro bus users - opportunity for comment Message-ID: This may be of assistance. See below. Gary From: Nancy Pineles [mailto:nancyp at mdlclaw.org] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 5:44 PM Subject: Metrobus users - opportunity for comment People with disabilities who use Metrobus may want to read the information below about new electronic signs that will be posted at some Metrobus stops. Call WMATA at 202-962-1051 and speak with Steven Taubenkikel, Cathy Asato or Lisa Farbstein. Here is a link to the news story: http://www.wmata.com/about_metro/news/PressReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=2 587 ________________________________ Metro News: Next Bus signs posted at bus stops Posted by: "Haydee De Paula" haydeed at arcmontmd.org hmmdp Wed May 27, 2009 7:38 am (PDT) Good News! "Metrobus customers will be able to get real-time bus arrival information on Metro's Web site, by telephone or from electronic signs installed at select Metrobus stops." I just received this from the Metro Newsletter (Link and complete pasted press release below). I am thinking of individuals with disabilities, mainly students who are being travel trained to use the public transportation system independently. I suggest families, transition teachers, job coaches and counselors, should consider the impact this service can have in the lives of individuals they support, as they advocate for them. I suggest we call them to ask Metro if it is possible to have signs on some bus stops where people with disabilities wait for buses. That would be very useful to them if they missed the bus, or when the weather is bad, so they can get prepared or make alternate decisions and arrangements, and not only wait forever without knowing what is going on. I just called them and shared the experience of my own son and other people I know to tell them how wonderful this new service can be for individuals who depend on public transportation and are being trained to use specific lines. I also ask them to consider giving priority to have these services on these specific stops individuals with disabilities need it most, to make it easier for riders to have an idea if they just missed the bus, or if they need to ask for help when the weather is bad and buses are too late for them to make it to work, etc... If you have a moment, please do the same. Please consider sharing some real stories of people with disabilities you know would benefit from this service. Please share this with others. Thank you! Media contact for this news release: Cathy Asato or Lisa Farbstein at 202-962-1051 Thanks, Haydee Haydee M. M. De Paula, Ph.D. Support Services Coordinator for Adolescents The Arc of Montgomery County 301.984.5777, Ext. 275, Fax: 301.816.2429 Hdepaula at arcmontmd.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 530 bytes Desc: image001.gif URL: From habnkid at aol.com Fri May 29 01:00:47 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 18:00:47 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] TestMasters LSAT materials Message-ID: <4A1F33BF.8000805@aol.com> Hello list, Those of you who have used LSAT prep materials from TestMasters, do you remember if the electronic format of the books were formatted well for braille use? I'm wondering if I could just have them email me the electronic copy of their book and then I could simply open the file in Duxbury and emboss it myself. Often times electronic copies of books need to be reformatted for braille use, and I am wondering if this is the case for TestMasters LSAT materials. Haben From dgoraya at ucla.edu Fri May 29 06:41:20 2009 From: dgoraya at ucla.edu (deepa goraya) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 23:41:20 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] answer to LSAT prep materials question Message-ID: <9D2159F0E36C42A8968D148B0C76566B@deepa8b7ac5f2a> Hi Haben, When you get electronic copies of books from Testmasters, you should make sure they are formatted correctly. When I got mine, they were in PDF format and when they had scanned the books, the formatting was all messed up. So I had to ask them to clean up the documents and then send them as Microsoft Word documents. They are easier to navigate as a MS Word document. If you get them in this format and they are cleaned up, they should be able to be embossed. Hope this helps, Deepa From cjmc404 at gmail.com Fri May 29 14:04:58 2009 From: cjmc404 at gmail.com (cory McMahon) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 09:04:58 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Message-ID: <83ABF36BB70F4ABD85EDD92D43B97402@DDH3MGF1> FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice ----- Original Message ----- From: Maurer, Patricia To: jobs at nfbnet.org Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 8:31 AM Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 9:25 AM To: nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; nwpatton at law.stanford.edu; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu; president at abaw.org; president at adc.org; president at apabala.org; president at blackwomenlawyersla.org; president at dominicanbarassociation.org; president at mabl.org; president at msba.org; president at phillybarristers.org Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies a.. ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 09-SDTX-04 (TERM-CIVIL) The position is open until filled. The initial cutoff date for receipt of applications is June 2, 2009. Date posted: 05-26-2009 b.. ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 09-SDTX-03 (TERM) The position is open until filled. The initial cutoff date for receipt of applications is June 2, 2009. Date posted: 05-26-2009 c.. ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA 09-GAN-AUSA-02 Hiring process is ongoing and will remain open until the positions are filled. Date posted: 05-22-2009 d.. ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA 09-GAN-AUSA-01 Hiring process is ongoing and will remain open until the positions are filled. Date posted: 05-22-2009 e.. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ATTACHE - PARIS OFFICE OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS (OIA) CRIMINAL DIVISION EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-14 to GS-15 Submissions must be post-marked or received June 19, 2009. Date posted: 05-22-2009 f.. ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF WEST VIRGINIA ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 09-SDWV-01 To be considered for a position, send a resume no later than June 19, 2009. Date posted: 05-21-2009 g.. ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 09-NDCA-E-02 Applications must be received by June 1, 2009. Date posted: 05-20-2009 h.. EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEY DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION NARCOTIC AND DANGEROUS DRUG SECTION VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 09-CRM-NDDS-015 This position is open for 7 days, this position closes on May 27, 2009. Date posted: 05-20-2009 i.. ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF COLORADO VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 09-CO-AUSA-04 Applications must be received by close of business (5:00pm Mountain Standard Time) on Wednesday, May 27, 2009. Date posted: 05-19-2009 j.. VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF LOUISIANA 09-EDLA-AUSA Applications for AUSA positions are accepted on a continuous basis, with interviews conducted to fill vacancies as they arise. Date posted: 05-15-2009 k.. ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 09-AUSASDGA-01 No later than May 24, 2009, please send a resume, writing sample, and a cover letter . Date posted: 05-15-2009 l.. U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION EMPLOYMENT LITIGATION SECTION DEPUTY CHIEF, GS-905-15 This position is open until June 3, 2009. Date posted: 05-14-2009 m.. U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF ENFORCEMENT OPERATIONS POLICY AND STATUTORY ENFORCEMENT UNIT TRIAL ATTORNEY, GS-13/14/15 Vacancy Announcement: 09-CRM-OEO-016 Applications will be accepted until August 13, 2009. Date posted: 05-14-2009 n.. ATTORNEY VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ENVIRONMENT AND NATURAL RESOURCES DIVISION ENVIRONMENTAL DEFENSE SECTION WASHINGTON, D.C. GS-15 OPEN: MAY 14, 2009 CLOSE: MAY 22, 2009 VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: ENRD-09-024-EXC Applications must be received by May 22, 2009 Date posted: 05-14-2009 o.. FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS OFFICE OF GENERAL COUNSEL DISCRIMINATION COMPLAINTS AND ETHICS BRANCH ASSOCIATE GENERAL COUNSEL (SUPERVISORY ATTORNEY-ADVISOR) GS-905-15 This position is open until filled, but no later than May 27, 2009. Date posted: 05-13-2009 p.. IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW STEWART COUNTY, GA. VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-09-0061 Applications received after June 10, 2009, will not be accepted. Date posted: 05-12-2009 The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/cjmc404%40gmail.com From angie.matney at gmail.com Fri May 29 15:24:40 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 11:24:40 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Obama administration opposes treaty to protect rights of print disabled Message-ID: <4a1ffe35.14045a0a.0f21.7eac@mx.google.com> A blog post concerning the proposed WIPO treaty to protect the reading rights of blind and people and people with disabilities, and on the Obama Administration's opposition to it. There are also some interesting links on the web site,m at the bottom of the post. I am only including the text of the post. http://www.boingboing.net/2009/05/29/usa-canada-and-the-e.html computer generated text to speech, or large type. These works, which are expensive to make, are typically created under national exceptions to copyright law that are specifically written to benefit persons with disabilities... The opposition from the United States and other high income countries is due to intense lobbying from a large group of publishers that oppose a "paradigm shift," where treaties would protect consumer interests, rather than expand rights for copyright owners. The Obama Administration was lobbied heavily on this issue, including meetings with high level White House officials. Assurances coming into the negotiations this week that things were going in the right direction have turned out to be false, as the United States delegation has basically read from a script written by lobbyists for publishers, extolling the virtues of market based solutions, ignoring mountains of evidence of a "book famine" and the insane legal barriers to share works. From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Fri May 29 16:09:22 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 09:09:22 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Attorney General Issues New Call to Action Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA70@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> -----Original Message----- From: Stuart Wittenstein [mailto:swittenstein at csb-cde.ca.gov] Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 7:57 AM Subject: FW: Breaking News - Attorney General Issues New Call to Action Hi CAC members, I thought you'd be interested in this message from the federal government re: hiring goals for persons with disabilities. Please note that the author of this message is our graduation speaker on Monday, June 1 at 1 PM. Please make it down to CSB if you can to listen to Ollie Cantos give CSB's 149th commencement address. Stuart Wittenstein, Ed.D. Superintendent California School for the Blind 500 Walnut Avenue Fremont, CA 94536 510-794-3800, X201 "A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives."Jackie Robinson ________________________________ From: Cantos, Ollie (CRT) [mailto:Ollie.Cantos at usdoj.gov] Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 6:07 PM Subject: Breaking News - Attorney General Issues New Call to Action Dear Colleagues: What a wonderful opportunity this is to be in touch with you again, especially after more than two months. The primary reason surrounding this time gap in communications stems from our having to work on issues relating to our software, which is still in need of upgrading to the new operating system. But, in light of very recent developments within the past 24 hours or so, I simply had to find a way to get the word out quickly, even before system improvements are implemented and finalized. Having just returned from travel late last night, my goal today has been to get in touch with you as quickly as possible. Getting right to the heart of today's email, I am extremely pleased to share information with you that is late-breaking. Our Attorney General, Eric Holder, head of the U.S. Department of Justice, has just issued a Department-wide call to hire and promote persons with targeted disabilities (i.e., those with physical, psychiatric, and intellectual disabilities) to be hired to fill positions for which they qualify within the various Department components. As such, within my capacity as Member of the Attorney General's Committee on Employment of Persons with Disabilities, I immediately wanted to share with you the original Portable Document File format copy of a Department memorandum, dated May 27, 2009 (text also pasted below). I strongly advise you to print and retain this memo for your records and to share this important document with everyone in your respective networks who wishes to seek employment in our Department. Job-seekers may include a copy of this memo in their applications as a reminder to hiring authorities of the call to action issued by the Attorney General. Supplementing this PDF, I am also taking the liberty of re-sending to the network an article on employment of individuals with disabilities, which was last revised in late 2007. Of specific note, job-seekers may wish to utilize "Schedule A" Hiring Authority, which allows individuals with targeted disabilities to be hired non-competitively into all levels of leadership (with the position later ideally to be converted from probationary status to permanent employment). The article describes this further. Also contained in the piece are dozens of national resources that may assist with efforts to attain gainful employment. I can tell you from my personal perspective that working in this Department has been an amazing and fulfilling experience in more ways than one. I would like nothing more than for all individuals with disabilities, who have an interest in joining our ranks, to make application to available positions for which they qualify To make this more of a concerted effort, I am taking the liberty of sending a CC of this email to Fred Parmenter, an attorney with the Antitrust Division, who is also the founder and chair of the Attorney General's Committee on which I sit. (This Committee first came into being under Attorney General Reno during the years of the Clinton Administration.) He may provide you with additional insight and guidance. Even if you yourself may not be interested in serving with us here at the Justice Department, I respectfully urge you to forward this information far and wide because of the direct difference that may be made in someone's life as a result. President Obama has expressed a commitment to advancing employment opportunities for persons with disabilities, and our Attorney General has now followed the President's lead by communicating to all component heads his commitment to advance Management Directive 715, issued by the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, which affirmatively encourages the recruitment, hiring, retention, and promotion of persons with disabilities (among others). Help us fulfill the goal of greater employment of individuals with disabilities by ensuring that every community member that you know ends up receiving this email, and urge them to spread the word still further. Encourage posting of this information on websites, on social networks, on newsgroups, and in online and offline organization and agency publications. Help us achieve the goal of our having 2% of our workforce of more than 100,000 consist of people with disabilities. Take action immediately so that, together, we may contribute to the lives of persons with disabilities being changed for the better while infusing this Department with the richness of talents, abilities, and skills that will effectively contribute to the Department's mission being fulfilled in every way. Thank you very much, and here's to everyone's success! Sincerely, Olegario D. Cantos VII, Esq. Member Attorney General's Committee on Employment of Persons with Disabilities OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL Washington, DC 20530 May 27, 2009 MEMORANDUM FOR HEADS OF DEPARTMENT COMPONENTS FROM: THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SUBJECT: Hiring Goals for Persons with Targeted Disabilities President Barack Obama has a comprehensive agenda to empower individuals with disabilities and enhance access to employment for all Americans. As Attorney General, I am committed to making the Department of Justice (DOJ) a model employer with a diverse workforce that includes people with disabilities. The Department, like other Federal agencies, must comply with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission's Management Directive 715, which requires hiring goals to increase employment and advancement of people with disabilities. While I recognize that DOJ's workforce is comprised of many law enforcement positions that have physical requirements, I ask that managers, supervisors, and hiring officials assist me in working toward a Department-wide two-percent hiring goal of people with disabilities. If achieved, this goal will align DOJ with the most successful agencies in employing individuals with severe disabilities. The Justice Management Division's (JMD) Human Resources and Equal Employment Opportunity Staffs are available to assist you and to provide information on special hiring authorities and accommodations for people with disabilities. These offices also will report quarterly to me on the Department's progress. If you have any questions you may contact Rod Markham, Director, Human Resources Staff, JMD or Vontell D. Frost-Tucker, Director, Equal Employment Opportunity Staff, JMD. President Obama has said, "We must build a world free of unnecessary barriers, stereotypes, and discrimination. Policies must be developed, attitudes must be shaped, and buildings and organizations must be designed to ensure that everyone has a chance to get the education they need and live independently as full citizens in their communities." I am asking the DOJ leadership for its pledge to incorporate talented persons with disabilities into the workplace. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 15325 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: HiringGoalsforPersonsWithTargetedDisabilities-frischSIGNED.PDF Type: application/octet-stream Size: 45281 bytes Desc: HiringGoalsforPersonsWithTargetedDisabilities-frischSIGNED.PDF URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Article-0071204-Employment of People with Disabilities.doc Type: application/msword Size: 140800 bytes Desc: Article-0071204-Employment of People with Disabilities.doc URL: From DFrye at nfb.org Fri May 29 19:05:47 2009 From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 15:05:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Encouraging News on the WIPO Issue Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BE033C1@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Colleagues: This is a rapidly evolving situation it would seem. I don't think the following suggests that this issue has been fully addressed, but it is optimistic news in the context of international negotiations. The following information will offer more detail for your consideration. I would not allow this ray of hope to discourage any plan you might have made to convey your opinion to the Obama administration on this issue. I should acknowledge Chris Danielsen for sharing this updated information with me: From: James Love [mailto:james.love at keionline.org ] Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 2:52 PM To: rrc Subject: SCCR meeting A new draft of the conclusions from the WIPO SCCR is now out. The draft is quite good. There are 18 paragraphs. Here is paragraph 2 2. The Committee expressed its appreciation for the Proposal by Brazil, Ecuador and Paraguay Relating to Limitations and Exceptions: Treaty Proposed by the World Blind Union (WBU). Views were expressed: supporting the proposal for a binding instrument; expressing the wish for more time to analyze it; expressing the desire to continue the work on the basis of a global and inclusive framework; and expressing that deliberations regarding any instrument would be premature. Member states will continue to consult on these issues at national level and report on the activities and views on possible solutions. This proposal, together with other possible proposals and contributions by the Members of the Committee, will be discussed at the nineteenth session of the SCCR. For those who did not attend, I can tell you that this result is quite good (certainly much better than we expected), and reflects the value of the extensive efforts by the members of the WBU, civil society NGOs and developing country governments who overcame very very determined resistance by a nearly united front of right owners who opposed a treaty in this area, and the stiff resistance from the European Union, and the opposition from the United States and other members of "Group B" countries in WIPO, who had argued it was "premature" to have such discussions, and who wanted WIPO to focus its efforts on a combination of sharing of information on national regimes and voluntary solutions only. -- James Love, Director, Knowledge Ecology International http://www.keionline.org | mailto:james.love at keionline.org Wk: +1.202.332.2671 | US Mobile +1.202.361.3040 | Geneva Mobile +41.76.413.6584 From habnkid at aol.com Fri May 29 19:12:24 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 12:12:24 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] More TestMasters Questions Message-ID: <4A203398.7020508@aol.com> Good Morning, For those who used TestMasters, what services did you use exactly? Did you work with a tutor, attend the course, or just study their course books independently? Haben From DFrye at nfb.org Fri May 29 19:30:56 2009 From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 14:30:56 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] International Copyright Concerns for Blind Readers Message-ID: Colleagues: I am circulating a lengthy post regarding efforts to limit an international treaty that would allow for rules that parallel existing domestic exceptions to the copyright law for blind people to govern in an international context. Please help bring pressure on authorities by letting President Obama know that these provisions would be useful, and ask him to direct his representatives to abandon their hostile posture toward aspects of the treaty that would be helpful. You may Email your concerns to: President at whitehouse.gov The post follows: Right now, in Geneva, at the UN's World Intellectual Property Organization, history is being made. For the first time in WIPO history, the body that creates the world's copyright treaties is attempting to write a copyright treaty dedicated to protecting the interests of copyright users, not just copyright owners. At issue is a treaty to protect the rights of blind people and people with other disabilities that affect reading (people with dyslexia, people who are paralyzed or lack arms or hands for turning pages). This should be a slam dunk: who wouldn't want a harmonized system of copyright exceptions that ensure that it's possible for disabled people to get access to the written word? The USA, that's who. The Obama administration' US negotiators have joined with a rogue's gallery of rich country trade representatives to oppose protection for blind people. Other nations and regions opposing the rights of blind people include Canada and the EU. Update: Also opposing rights for disabled people: Australia, New Zealand, the Vatican and Norway. Activists at WIPO are desperate to get the word out. They're tweeting madly from the negotiation (technically called the 18th session of the Standing Committee on Copyright and Related Rights) publishing editorials on the Huffington Post, etc. Here's where you come in: this has to get wide exposure, to get cast as broadly as possible, so that it will find its way into the ears of the obscure power-brokers who control national trade-negotiators. I don't often ask readers to do things like this, but please, forward this post to people you know in the US, Canada and the EU, and ask them to reblog, tweet, and spread the word, especially to government officials and activists who work on disabled rights. We know that WIPO negotiations can be overwhelmed by citizen activists -- that's how we killed the Broadcast Treaty negotiation a few years back -- and with your help, we can make history, and create a world where copyright law protects the public interest. I am attending a meeting in Geneva of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). This evening the United States government, in combination with other high income countries in "Group B" is seeking to block an agreement to discuss a treaty for persons who are blind or have other reading disabilities. The proposal for a treaty is supported by a large number of civil society NGOs, the World Blind Union, the National Federation of the Blind in the US, the International DAISY Consortium, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic (RFB&D), Bookshare.Org, and groups representing persons with reading disabilities all around the world. The main aim of the treaty is to allow the cross-border import and export of digital copies of books and other copyrighted works in formats that are accessible to persons who are blind, visually impaired, dyslexic or have other reading disabilities, using special devices that present text as refreshable braille, computer generated text to speech, or large type. These works, which are expensive to make, are typically created under national exceptions to copyright law that are specifically written to benefit persons with disabilities. .. The opposition from the United States and other high income countries is due to intense lobbying from a large group of publishers that oppose a "paradigm shift," where treaties would protect consumer interests, rather than expand rights for copyright owners. The Obama Administration was lobbied heavily on this issue, including meetings with high level White House officials. Assurances coming into the negotiations this week that things were going in the right direction have turned out to be false, as the United States delegation has basically read from a script written by lobbyists for publishers, extolling the virtues of market based solutions, ignoring mountains of evidence of a "book famine" and the insane legal barriers to share works. Obama Joins Group to Block Treaty for Blind and Other Reading Disabilities COPYRIGHT EXCEPTIONS AND LIMITATIONS Twitter feed for #sccr18 With Kind Regards, *********************** Daniel B. Frye, J.D. Associate Editor The Braille Monitor National Federation of the Blind Office of the President 1800 Johnson Street Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Fax: (410) 685-5653 Email: DFrye at nfb.org Web Address: www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's Blind" From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Fri May 29 22:27:03 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 15:27:03 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] More TestMasters Questions In-Reply-To: <4A203398.7020508@aol.com> Message-ID: <56DC0001B7764E0682CFEC9A5A234561@DF5R2QD1> Dear Haben, I took the course through one-on-one tutoring. The tutor came to meet me after work at my office and I went through the entire standard TestMasters course. I could be wrong, but I don't think there was an online option when I took it. I also don't think thee was an option to buy their material and study on your own. The two options wee to take a standard class taught a few times a week or to do individual tutoring. Even though it was expensive, Department of Rehab paid for my entire TestMaster's experience (I live in California). Best, Stephanie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Haben Girma Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 12:12 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] More TestMasters Questions Good Morning, For those who used TestMasters, what services did you use exactly? Did you work with a tutor, attend the course, or just study their course books independently? Haben _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com From dandrews at visi.com Sat May 30 16:09:11 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 11:09:11 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Updated NFB National Convention Agenda Message-ID: Minor updates have been made to the 2009 NFB convention agenda. Please see below. In addition it was converted to text before being pasted in this e-mail message, so those of you who had e-mail problems with it previously shouldn't have them this time. If you wish to download the full Microsoft Word document, go to the link below. http://www.nfb.org/nfb/National_Convention.asp 2009 ANNUAL CONVENTION DETROIT, MICHIGAN JULY 3 to JULY 8 THE MEMBERS OF THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF MICHIGAN WELCOME YOU TO THE 69th ANNUAL CONVENTION OF THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND Marc Maurer, President National Federation of the Blind 1800 Johnson Street Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Mary Ellen Jernigan Executive Director for Operations and Chairwoman, Convention Organization and Activities Fred Wurtzel, President National Federation of the Blind of Michigan 1212 North Foster Avenue Lansing, Michigan 48912-3309 Detroit Marriott® at the Renaissance Center Renaissance Center (313) 568-8000 Courtyard by Marriott® 333 E. Jefferson Avenue (313) 222-7700 DETROIT MARRIOTT The 69th annual convention of the National Federation of the Blind is being held in Michigan at the Detroit Marriott® at the Renaissance Center. As usual, our hotel rates are very good: singles and doubles $62, triples $66, and quads $68. In addition to the room rates, there is a 15 percent sales tax. There is no charge for children under eighteen in the room with parents as long as no extra bed is required. Proof of convention registration is necessary, including the showing of an NFB registration badge if requested. Otherwise, regular hotel rates must be paid. The Detroit Marriott is a seventy-two story round hotel in the middle of a larger complex of buildings known as the Renaissance Center. The lowest level is the Motor Lobby where people arriving by taxis and automobiles enter the hotel. There are bellmen at this entrance and elevators going directly to the main lobby of the hotel, which is located on Level Three. All hotel meeting rooms, ballrooms, and the exhibit hall are on Levels Three, Four, and Five. A bank of twelve elevators is located in the center of the hotel in a corridor oriented along the east-west axis of the building. The first six elevators at the west end of the corridor (three on each side) serve floors one, three, four, five, and forty through seventy. The next six elevators (three on each side) serve floors one, three, four, five, and nine through forty. Just beyond each end of the elevator corridor a set of escalators serves Levels Three, Four, and Five. To reach the main hotel lobby you should leave the elevator corridor heading west. The hotel restaurant (Forty-two Degrees North) and Volt (a bar which also serves an extensive array of food) can be entered from the main lobby. Many other food outlets including a large food court are located on Levels A, One, and Two in the Renaissance Center complex. The easiest way to exit the hotel proper into other parts of the Renaissance Center Complex is to use an escalator located near the Coach Insignia Restaurant elevator at the south end of Level Three of the hotel. The Detroit Marriott has a smoke-free policy. COURTYARD MARRIOTT The Courtyard Marriott is connected to Level Two of the Renaissance Center Complex by an enclosed overhead walkway. It may also be reached by leaving the Renaissance Center at Level One through the Jefferson Lobby. We are using both sleeping rooms and meeting space in the Courtyard Marriott. “MOTOR CITY” MARCH FOR INDEPENDENCE: SUPPORTING OUR IMAGINATION FUND CAMPAIGN On Monday, July 6, we open the convention with our spectacular third March for Independence. Marching through downtown Detroit, we will celebrate our liberty among friends, family members, and supporters. Please gather for this fundraising and “friend-raising” walk-a-thon and rally at 6:45 Monday morning in the Wintergarden on Level A of the Detroit Marriott. Most of the route is along the beautiful RiverWalk promenade and culminates with a rally in Rivard Plaza. Marcher drop-in briefing sessions are on Sunday, July 5, from 7:00 to 10:00 pm. Let’s walk together to make the Motor City March a truly magnificent event. NFB OF MICHIGAN HOSPITALITY DANCE! Our host affiliate invites you to celebrate with them by renewing old friendships and/or forming new ones on Monday, July 6, at 7:00 pm in the Ambassador Ballroom, Level 3. Entertainment by “Nine,” a nine-piece band that will perform Motown, soul, classic rock, pop, and old standards—guaranteed to create an exciting atmosphere and stir pleasant memories. ROOKIE ROUNDUP All first-time convention attendees are cordially invited to attend a reception from 8:00 to 10:00 pm on Friday, July 3, in the Ambassador Ballroom One, Level 3. President Maurer and other Federation leaders will be on hand to welcome you to the convention and preview the week’s activities. Veteran conventioneers should urge all first-timers to attend this special event. Also, first-time rookies are invited to join an informal, fun gathering on Sunday, July 5, from 12:00 noon to 2:00 pm in the Affiliate Action Suite 6801. REGISTRATION & PREREGISTRATION Registration activities take place in the Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 beginning at 9:00 am on Saturday, July 4; at 8:30 am on Sunday, July 5; and at other times as listed throughout the week. The fee for registration at convention is $20 per person (if you preregistered before May 31, the fee was $15), and all those attending the convention (both local and out of town people) are asked to register. Convention registration is a requirement for door prize eligibility and a number of other convention activities. We condition rates for hotel rooms on proof of registration, including the showing of an NFB registration badge if requested. Therefore, please register as soon as possible after arrival. EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET Exhibits and the NFB Independence Market are located in the Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3. The exhibit hall hours are: Saturday 9:00 am to 5:00 pm Sunday 8:30 am to 5:00 pm Monday Noon to 1:45 pm; sponsors only from 7:00-10:00 pm Tuesday Noon to 1:45 pm—Note: This is the final time that Independence Market and Literature will be open. Tuesday 7:00 to 10:00 pm—Exhibit Hall only; Independence Market and Literature closed) There is a special event for sponsor-level exhibitors only on Monday, July 6, from 7:00 to 10:00 pm (see “Special Attention” section and agenda listing for more information). Sign up for NFB-NEWSLINE® at the NEWSLINE table, check the agenda for times to visit Room 6401 to learn about it, or call local number (313) 483-1147 to use NEWSLINE at convention. Any alterations in the general session schedule which may occur during the convention will result in conforming shifts in the exhibit schedule and will be announced in the exhibit areas. A number of affiliated NFB divisions and committees have tables. Many new electronic devices are demonstrated, as well as a special exhibit of materials and resources for the deaf-blind. MEETINGS General sessions of the convention are being held in the Renaissance Ballroom, Level 4 on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. The morning sessions convene at 9:30 am on Monday, and 9:00 am on Tuesday and Wednesday. The convention adjourns promptly at 5:00 pm on Wednesday, July 8. Please note that all requests for announcements by Dr. Maurer during general sessions must be submitted in Braille. BANQUET AND BANQUET TICKET EXCHANGE The banquet is being held in the Renaissance Ballroom, Level 4 at 7:00 pm, Wednesday, July 8. Banquet tickets purchased at convention are $40.00 (the cost was $35 if purchased before May 31) and are on sale during registration on Saturday and Sunday, and from noon to 12:30 and 1:30 to 2:00 pm on Monday. No banquet tickets will be available for purchase after Monday. It will be necessary to have your banquet ticket with you to attend the banquet; it will be collected at the banquet table. Arrangements should be made for reserved table assignments by taking the ticket(s) you purchase to the Banquet Exchange Table in the registration area, where you may exchange either an individual ticket or a group of tickets for reserved seating. Banquet tables seat ten people. RELIGIOUS SERVICES AND DEVOTIONS On Sunday, July 5, Fr. Gregory Paul, C.P., will celebrate a Roman Catholic Mass at 7:15 am in Ambassador Ballroom One, Level 3. Also on Sunday at 11:45 am services for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will be held in Ambassador Ballroom One, Level 3. Devotional services will be held in Ambassador Ballroom One, Level 3, at 7:30 am on Tuesday, and 8:00 am on Wednesday. Please note there is no service on Monday morning. Services are nonsectarian and will end at least fifteen minutes prior to morning convention sessions. knfbReader MOBILE THE CELL PHONE THAT READS PRINT With the power of digital photography and unique cell phone software, reading print on the go wherever you are is now possible for blind people. Come and learn about this fabulous, life-changing technology in the exhibit hall and at demonstration and training sessions planned in the afternoon on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday and in the evening on Tuesday. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! SPECIAL ATTENTION IS CALLED TO THE FOLLOWING ITEMS • A Federation Information Desk will be in the registration area from Saturday morning, July 4, through Wednesday, July 8, if you have questions or need assistance. The Michigan affiliate will also maintain a table near the hotel check in desk in the main lobby to provide assistance and hospitality during much of the convention. • When you register, you will be given a badge. Please wear it at all times during the convention. • The room number for the Presidential Suite is 7010. Someone will be on hand in the Presidential Suite throughout most of the convention to greet you and make appointments for you with the President or anyone else you wish to see. The Presidential Suite will not be open during the business sessions of the convention, the Sunday morning Board of Directors meeting, Monday morning (due to the Independence March), or the Wednesday evening banquet. Come to the Presidential Suite. You will be most welcome. • The room number for Mary Ellen Jernigan, Chairwoman of Convention Organization and Activities, is 6910. Questions concerning hotel rooms, meeting rooms, banquet, scheduling, registration, and other matters dealing with convention arrangements should be referred to the Chairwoman of Convention Organization and Activities. • Individuals needing to conduct business with the NFB Treasurer may do so by going to the DaVinci Room, Level 4 on Monday, July 6, between 5:30 and 7:30 pm, or on Tuesday, July 7, between 12:00 noon and 2:00 pm. • The Michigan Suite (Fred Wurtzel, President) is 6805. • The Affiliate Action and Rookie Activities Suite (Joanne Wilson and Pam Allen, Coordinators) is 6801. • We are again offering NFB Camp (child-care services) for children six weeks through ten years of age in Marquette A and B Rooms, Level 5 during convention sessions, most meetings, and the banquet. Preregistration and payment by June 15 were required for NFB Camp. NFB Camp is organized and supervised by Carla McQuillan, the executive director of Main Street Montessori Association. Alison McQuillan, camp worker and teacher since 1998, is the activities director. Please note that NFB Camp provides morning and afternoon snacks, but parents are required to provide lunch for their child(ren) every day. Times listed are the opening and closing times for NFB Camp. A late fee of $10 will be assessed for all late pickups. NFB Camp hours: Friday, 7/3 8:30 am to 5:30 pm Saturday, 7/4 Closed Sunday, 7/5 8:30 am to 12:30 pm and 1:00 to 5:30 pm Monday, 7/6 9:00 am to 12:30 pm and 1:30 to 5:30 pm Tuesday, 7/7 8:30 am to 12:30 pm and 1:30 to 5:30 pm Wednesday, 7/8 8:30 am to 12:30 pm and 1:30 to 5:30 pm Banquet 7/8 6:30 pm to 30 minutes after closing • A Special Evening For Sponsor-Level Exhibitors: Again this year, the exhibit hall will reopen from 7:00 to 10:00 pm on Monday, July 6, for a very special evening dedicated solely to Sponsor-Level Exhibitors listed here. Come and bring a guest to say “thank you” to our sponsors and to enjoy their interesting offers and demonstrations. Our convention sponsors are—Platinum: HumanWare and UPS; Gold: Deque Systems, Inc., Freedom Scientific, and Oracle; Silver: En-Vision America, Intel®, and Wal-Mart; Bronze: Adobe, Council of U.S. Dog Guide Schools (CUSDGS), IBM, Independent Living Aids (ILA), and Microsoft; Exhibit Hall: GW Micro, J&B Medical Supply, National Industries for the Blind, ReadHowYouWant, and Roche Diagnostics. • The ever-popular Showcase of Talent is back again at 7:00 pm on Tuesday, July 7, presented by the Performing Arts Division. Admission price is $5.00. If you would like to participate in the Showcase, make sure to sign up early by contacting Beth Allred at the convention. • Raffle tickets will not be sold in the registration area, and no raffles or other such drawings will take place during convention sessions or at the banquet. The single exception to this rule will be that national divisions may (if they request it in advance) conduct such drawings during the convention or at the banquet. LaSalle A Room, Level 5 will be set aside at 12:00 noon on Wednesday, July 8, for all other drawings. Any group or affiliate wishing to conduct drawings at this time (or any person wishing to know the winners) may go at noon on Wednesday to the LaSalle A Room. AFFILIATED DIVISIONS, COMMITTEES, AND GROUPS The Federation carries on its business through divisions, committees, and groups. The meetings of some of these have been scheduled for particular times and are listed in the agenda. Others have not been formally scheduled but will meet at the call of their chairpersons or presidents. If you have matters that you would like to discuss with any of the following divisions, committees, or groups, you should contact: Divisions: • Agriculture and Equestrian: Fred Chambers, President; • Assistive Technology Trainers: Michael Barber, President; • Classics, Antiques, and Rods or Special Interest Vehicles (CARS): Joseph B. Naulty, President; • Deaf-Blind: Burnell Brown, President; • Diabetes Action Network for the Blind: Michael Freeman, President; • Human Services: Melissa Riccobono, President; • National Association of the Blind in Communities of Faith: Tom Anderson, President; • National Association of Blind Entrepreneurs: James R. Bonerbo, President; • National Association of Blind Lawyers: Scott LaBarre, President; • National Association of Blind Merchants: Kevan Worley, President; • National Association of Blind Office Professionals: Lisa Hall, President; • National Association of Blind Piano Technicians: Don Mitchell, President; • National Association of Blind Rehabilitation Professionals: Melody Lindsey, President; • National Association of Blind Students: Terri Rupp, President; • National Association of Blind Veterans: Dwight Sayer, President; • National Association of Guide Dog Users: Marion Gwizdala, President; • National Association to Promote the Use of Braille (NAPUB): Nadine Jacobson, President; • National Federation of the Blind in Computer Science: Curtis Chong, President; • National Federation of the Blind Krafters: Joyce Kane, President; • National Federation of the Blind Seniors: Judy Sanders, President; • National Organization of Blind Educators: Sheila Koenig, President; • National Organization of Parents of Blind Children (NOPBC): Carol Castellano, President; • Performing Arts: Dennis Holston, President; • Public Employees: Ivan Weich, President; • Science and Engineering: John Miller, President; • Sports and Recreation: Lisamaria Martinez, President; • Travel and Tourism: Don Gillmore, President; • Writers: Robert Leslie Newman, President. Committees: • Ambassadors: Angela Wolf, Chairperson; • Blind Educator of the Year Award: David Ticchi, Chairperson; • Committee on Assistive Technology (COAT): Curtis Chong, Chairperson; • Committee on Automobile and Pedestrian Safety (CAPS): Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson; • Committee to Empower Underserved Populations (CEUP): Ron Brown, Chairperson; • Cultural Exchange and International Program: Diane McGeorge, Chairperson; • Distinguished Educator of Blind Children Award: Joyce Scanlan, Chairperson; • Employment: Buna Dahal, Chairperson; • Imagination Fund: Kevan Worley, Chairperson; • Jacobus tenBroek Award: Ramona Walhof, Chairperson; • Jacobus tenBroek Memorial Fund: Tami Jones, Chairperson; • Kenneth Jernigan Fund: Allen Harris, Chairperson; • Library Services: David Hyde, Chairperson; • Loan Fund: Donald C. Capps, Chairperson; • Membership: Ron Gardner, Chairperson; • Newel Perry Award: Allen Harris, Chairperson; • Newsletter Publications: Norma Crosby, Chairperson; • NFB-NEWSLINE® Program Steering: David DeNotaris, Chairperson; • PAC Plan: Scott LaBarre, Chairperson; • Planned Giving: John Halverson, Chairperson; • Promotion, Evaluation, and Advancement of Technology: Gary Wunder, Chairperson; • Public Relations: Barbara Pierce, Chairperson; • Research and Development: Curtis Chong, Chairperson; • Resolutions: Sharon Maneki, Chairperson; • Scholarship: Anil Lewis, Chairperson; • Shares Unlimited in NFB (SUN): Sandy Halverson, Chairperson; • Spanish Translation: Norman Gardner, Chairperson; • White Cane and Affiliate Finance: Alpidio Rolón, Chairperson. Groups: • Blind Musicians: Linda Mentink, Chairperson; • Blind Parents: Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson; • Blind Professional Journalists: Elizabeth Campbell and Bryan Bashin, Co-Chairpersons; • Educators of Blind Children: Gail Wagner, Chairperson; • Geordi's Engineers: Lorraine Rovig, Chairperson; • Legislative Initiatives Discussion: Don Burns, Coordinator; • Living History: Michael Freholm, Chairperson; • NFB Ham Radio: D. Curtis Willoughby, Chairperson; • NFB in Judaism: David Stayer, Chairperson; • NFB Lions: Ramona Walhof and Milton Ota, Co-Chairpersons; • Orientation and Mobility: Edward C. Bell, Chairperson; • Professionals in Blindness Education: Heather Field, Chairperson; • Webmasters: Gary Wunder, Chairperson. CONVENTION AGENDA FRIDAY, JULY 3, 2009 7:30 - 8:45 am—HAM RADIO GROUP EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS Raphael Room, Level 4 Discuss hotel frequencies and architectural features and distributing special FM receivers for the hearing-impaired and Spanish-speaking attendees. D. Curtis Willoughby (KA0VBA), Chairperson 7:45 am - 6:30 pm—THE FUTURE IS OURS AND THEIRS Parent, Rehabilitation, and Orientation & Mobility Joint Conference for Families and Rehabilitation Professionals (7:45 - 8:45 am—Registration and coffee; 12:00 to 2:00 pm—NBPCB Awards Luncheon, Ambassador Three Ballroom) Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 NOPBC Fees: Adults $30; Youth (13-18) $20; Children (5-12) $10 NABRP Fees (includes lunch): Students $75; Professionals $100 Note: Conference admission included with either registration above. Sponsors: National Organization of Parents of Blind Children (NOPBC); National Blindness Professional Certification Board (NBPCB); National Association of Blind Rehabilitation Professionals (NABRP); and the Professional Development & Research Institute on Blindness (PDRIB) at the Louisiana Tech University. Chairpersons: Carol Castellano and Edward Bell 8:00 am - 4:30 pm—PROFESSIONALS IN BLINDNESS EDUCATION Duluth B Room, Level 5 Heather Field, Chairperson 8:30 am—NFB CAMP: IT’S MORE THAN CHILD’S PLAY (CHILD CARE) Marquette A and B Rooms, Level 5 Please see “Special Attention” section of agenda for further information. (Preregistration by June 15 was required.) 8:30 - 11:30 am—WHAT’S NEW IN JAWS 10 AND MAGic 11, AND A FIRST LOOK AT JAWS 11—FREEDOM SCIENTIFIC, INC. Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 Join Eric Damery, JAWS Product Manager, for an exciting and informative session covering all of the new details surrounding JAWS and MAGic development. This will also be the first look at JAWS 11 scheduled for public beta in August and includes a demo of Windows 7. Bring questions! FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 8:30 am - 5:00 pm—IBTC’S ACCESS TECHNOLOGY SEMINARS Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 8:30 - 10:00 am—Mobile productivity on cell phones. 10:30 am - noon—Create DAISY books from your desktop. 1:30 - 3:00 pm—Web 2.0 features with screen access software. 3:30 - 5:00 pm—Lesser-known names in screen access software. 9:00 am - 12:00 noon—GW MICRO: BRAILLE SENSE PLUS AND VOICE SENSE—Registration $10; Refreshments provided. Nicolet A Room, Level 5 The Braille Sense Plus is the lightest note taker with a 32-cell Braille display, and the Voice Sense is the smallest note taker. Learn about the features of GW note takers including the GW Sense Navigation GPS. Presenters: Raul Gallegos and Chris Park. To register, call (260) 489-3671. 9:00 am - 5:00 pm—NFB YOUTH TRACK SESSIONS (ages 14-18) Sponsored by NFB Jernigan Institute; Mary Jo Thorpe, Coordinator Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 9:00 - 10:15 am—PARENTS-REHAB SEMINAR Cascade B Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott 10:30 am - 12:00 noon—ALL ABOUT ME Help shape the future of youth outreach for the NFB. 2:00 - 3:00 pm—BACK & BICEPS, CHEST & TRICEPS Learn the “ropes” about working out in a gym. 3:30 - 5:00 pm—ME AND YOUTUBE An interactive YouTube activity for teens. 9:00 am - 10:00 pm—NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATIONS Room 6401, 64th floor 9:00-11:00 am, 2:00-6:00 pm, and 8:30-10:00 pm—Learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 11:30 am -1:30 pm—Affiliate presidents’ gathering. Learn about NFB- NEWSLINE Online and how to promote NEWSLINE. 6:30 - 8:00 pm—Exhibit for parents and their blind children (ages 10+). FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 10:00 am - 5:00 pm—EMPLOYMENT COMMITTEE SEMINAR Richard B Room, Level 5 10:00 am­Registration; 10:30 am­Seminar begins Key strategies for job hunting: How? Where? What? Remember, innovation and authenticity produce abundant opportunities. Gain the secrets of obtaining and maintaining employment. Buna Dahal, Chairperson 10:15 am - 12:00 noon—NOPBC BRAILLE CARNIVAL (ages 5-13) Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 1:00 - 3:00 pm—PAC MATE, BEYOND NOTE TAKING—FREEDOM SCIENTIFIC, INC. Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 Join Jonathan Mosen as we explore the power of PAC Mate Omni, from beaming your KNFB Reader Mobile documents to be read in Braille, to watching TV right from your PAC Mate Omni. See our new StreetTalk VIP GPS solution in action. 1:00 - 3:00 pm—WRITERS DIVISION WORKSHOP ($5.00 fee) Room 6405, 64th floor Visit with a published author. Robert Leslie Newman, President 1:00 - 4:00 pm—SWIM CLINIC; SPORTS & REC DIVISION Pool, Courtyard Marriott Annie Sawicki, part of the AdapTap team (that designed an award-winning device by blind swimmers), is conducting a swimming workshop. Take a break with a cool dip in the pool. Lisamaria Martinez, President 1:00 - 5:00 pm—HUMANWARE PRODUCT SHOWCASE AND USER GROUPS LaSalle A and B Rooms, Level 5 Sessions: 1:00 Breeze; 2:00 BrailleNote; 3:00 Stream; 4:00 Mobile Devices Join HumanWare and other users to learn about recent updates and share product tips. Ask questions and give us your suggestions for your favorite HumanWare product. Door Prizes for every session! 1:30 - 2:45 pm—knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print—it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 2:00 - 3:30 pm—NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS One-Two Buckle My Shoe, Three-Four Out the Door Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Developmental timelines from preschool through elementary. Instructors: Debbi Head, Heather Field, Annee Hartzell Show Me the Technology: Middle School/High School Renoir Room, Level 4 What is needed, how to work with the school to get it, and what to do when all else fails. Instructors: Dr. Matt Maurer and Al Lovati Literacy for All Skyline B Room, Courtyard Marriott Large print? Braille? Both? How to tell what is best for your child. Great Expectations: Mobility Instruction and Blind Children with Additional Disabilities Skyline A Room, Courtyard Marriott High expectations, real life goals, and how to achieve them in the area of independent travel. Instructor: Denise Mackenstadt 2:00 - 5:00 pm—NOPBC TRIP TO PENRICKTON CENTER Meeting place to be announced Parents of children with significant multiple disabilities can visit this center which uses the Active Learning techniques of Lilli Nielsen. 2:00 - 5:00 pm—NOPBC SESSIONS FOR CHILDREN AND YOUTH (Note to parents: Volunteers will accompany the children from one workshop to the other.) Not-so-mad Scientists: Hands-on Chemistry Experiments: Cascade D Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Dr. Andrew Greenberg, Cary Supalo, Marilyn Winograd, and Dr. Lillian Rankel 2:00 ­ 3:30 pm—For Kindergarten through Grade 5 3:30 ­ 5:00 pm—For Grades 6 through 12 FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued NOPBC SESSIONS FOR CHILDREN AND YOUTH, Cont’d. Tactile Drawings and Representations: Cascade C Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Ann Cunningham and Debbie Kent Stein 2:00 ­ 3:30 pm—For Grades 6 through 12 3:30 ­ 5:00 pm—For Kindergarten through Grade 5 2:00 - 5:00 pm—GW MICRO: WINDOW-EYES TRAINING (Registration $10; Refreshments provided) Nicolet A Room, Level 5 Explore the power of Window-Eyes with advanced scripting support, Office 2007, Windows Vista, and Windows 7. Come to see the best support for the Internet in a screen reader. Presenters: Raul Gallegos and Chris Park. To register, call (260) 489-3671. 2:00 - 7:00 pm—KRAFTERS KORNER Richard A Room, Level 5 Meet some talented Federation crafters and purchase their beautiful hand-made items for sale. Joyce Kane, Krafters Division President 3:00 - 4:30 pm—MAKING THE MOST OF YOUR JERNIGAN INSTITUTE (Workshop One; Workshop Two is on Saturday at 4:00 pm) Brulé A Room, Level 5 Attendees will learn the latest information about the Institute and about how they can utilize its programs to build the organization at the local level. We expect the discussion to spark new, imaginative ideas for future programs. Led by Mark Riccobono, Jernigan Institute Executive Director. 3:00 - 4:45 pm— knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print—it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 3:00 - 5:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOC. OF BLIND ENTREPRENEURS Brulé B Room, Level 5 James R. Bonerbo, President FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 3:30 - 4:50 pm—NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS Access for Everyone Skyline A Room, Courtyard Marriott Learn how blind and low-vision children of all abilities can access education and information in school and in the world. Instructor: Dr. Denise Robinson Braille Music for Dummies Skyline B Room, Courtyard Marriott Just enough to stay one step ahead of the kids. Instructors: Jennifer Dunnam and Kyle Conley Spaghetti, Meatballs, and Birthday Parties Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Manners, cafeterias, games, playgrounds, and friends (Pre-K and Elementary) Instructors: Debbi Head and Emily Gibbs Bring Me to the Mall—Text Me Later Renoir Room, Level 4 Manners, food courts, and friends (middle and high school) Instructors: Eric Guillory and Deja Powell 5:00 - 6:30 pm—PARENTS AND REHABILITATION PROFESSIONALS JOINT CONFERENCE RECEPTION Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 6:00 - 10:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GUIDE DOG USERS BUSINESS MEETING Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 6:00 pm­Registration; 7:00 pm­Meeting begins Topics: airline emergency procedures and evacuation; creating and growing state associations of guide dog users; and protecting the rights of guide dog users through advocacy and education. Marion Gwizdala, President FRIDAY, JULY 3, Continued 6:30 - 10:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND OFFICE PROFESSIONALS Renoir Room, Level 4 6:30 pm­Registration; 7:00 pm­Meeting begins Featuring a hands-on Braille proofreading workshop. Guest speaker is from Seedlings Braille Books for Children. Lisa Hall, President 7:30 - 10:00 pm—NOPBC FAMILY HOSPITALITY NIGHT Cascade D Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Drop in, relax, and chat in an informal atmosphere. 8:00 - 10:00 pm—NFB LIONS GROUP Room 6405, 64th floor NFB members who are also Lions are urged to meet to share ideas and experiences. Co-Chairpersons: Ramona Walhof and Milton Ota 8:00 - 10:00 pm—ROOKIE ROUNDUP RECEPTION—GAINING INSIGHT FOR FIRST-TIMERS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 First-time conventioneers, don't miss this event! President Maurer and former rookies will be on hand to welcome you and answer questions. Coordinator: Pam Allen, Director of the Louisiana Center for the Blind and President of the NFB of Louisiana 8:00 pm - midnight—KARAOKE NIGHT?? Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 Admission: $5.00. You'll have a great time. Braille song lists available. Hosted by BLIND, Incorporated 9:00 - 10:00 pm—NFB AMBASSADORS COMMITTEE MEETING Greco Room, Level 4 Angela Wolf, Chairperson SATURDAY, JULY 4, 2009 9:00 am - 5:00 pm—REGISTRATION ($20); BANQUET TICKET SALES ($40); Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 9:00 am 5:00 pm—EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND LITERATURE—Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 1:00 - 3:00 pm—WHAT’S NEW WITH NFB-NEWSLINE® Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 Presentational seminar about the world’s largest audible newspaper service for the blind and visually impaired. Topics cover newest online initiatives and improvements to the service. 1:00 - 5:00 pm—EXPLORING THE LATEST INNOVATIONS IN MOBILE REFRESHABLE BRAILLE AND TACTILE GRAPHICS TECHNOLOGIES Richard A Room, Level 5 1:00-2:00—ALVA Braille Controller: more than just a Braille display. 2:00-3:00—Talking Tactile Tablet: exploring tactile images, interactive games. 3:00-4:00—Reading On the Go!: read books, texts, etc. using a cell phone. 4:00-5:00—Mobile Geo: a new GPS solution for accessible cell phones. Larry Lewis, President, Flying Blind, Inc. 1:00 - 5:00 pm—NATIONAL CERTIFICATION IN LITERARY BRAILLE (NCLB) OFFICIAL EXAMINATION—SECTIONS ONE AND TWO Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Participants must have preregistered. Exam Sections Three and Four are on Sunday, July 5 (see agenda listing). Sponsored by the National Blindness Professional Certification Board 1:30 pm—RESOLUTIONS COMMITTEE Renaissance Cartier Ballroom, Level 4 Sharon Maneki, Chairperson 1:30 - 2:45 pm— knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print—it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! SATURDAY, JULY 4, Continued 2:00 - 5:00 pm—NOPBC SESSIONS FOR CHILDREN AND YOUTH Braille Beats Cascade D Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Kids get into Braille music in a fun way. Instructor: Kyle Conley 2:00 ­ 3:30 pm—For Kindergarten through Grade 5 3:30 ­ 5:00 pm—For Grades 6 through 12 You Want to Move It, Move It Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Judo expert Lisamaria Martinez and friends get you moving! 2:00 ­ 3:30 pm—For Grades 6 through 12 3:30 ­ 5:00 pm—For Kindergarten through Grade 5 2:30 - 4:30 pm—TRAVEL AND TOURISM DIVISION Raphael Room, Level 4 Don Gillmore, President 3:00 - 4:45 pm—knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print—it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 3:30 - 10:00 pm—NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATIONS Room 6401, 64th floor 3:30-6:00 pm and 8:30-10:00 pm—Learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 6:30-8:00 pm—Gathering for professionals in the field of work with the blind for an evening of presentations and possibilities. 4:00 - 5:30 pm—MAKING THE MOST OF YOUR JERNIGAN INSTITUTE Duluth B Room, Level 5 Attendees will learn the latest information about the Institute and about how they can utilize its programs to build the organization at the local level. We expect the discussion to spark new, imaginative ideas for future programs. Led by Mark Riccobono, Jernigan Institute Executive Director. SATURDAY, JULY 4, Continued 4:00 - 6:00 pm—SPANISH SEMINAR Brulé B Room, Level 5 Conducted entirely in Spanish. Learn about the Federation, hear from some of our leaders, and network with other Hispanic members. Facilitators: Rosy Carranza and A.Z. Martinez 4:30 - 5:30 pm—WAL-MART AND NFB JERNIGAN INSTITUTE: FUTURE INNOVATIONS FORUM Brulé A Room, Level 5 Join a town hall meeting on Equal Access at the Pharmacy Counter. Discuss emerging issues, best practices, and preferences as a blind or low-vision consumer. Influence future work through the NFB Jernigan Institute to encourage innovative Pharmacy practices and take the opportunity for the world's largest retailer to hear your voice. 4:30 - 6:00 pm—TWELFTH ANNUAL MOCK TRIAL—National Association of Blind Lawyers; Scott LaBarre, President Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 Admission: $5.00. Federation lawyers are pitted against each other reenacting an old Federation case with the audience serving as the jury. 6:00 - 7:30 pm—NEWSLETTER PUBLICATIONS COMMITTEE DaVinci Room, Level 4 Covering state newsletters, formatting a good publication, and publishing in accessible formats. Norma Crosby, Chairperson 6:00 - 10:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND STUDENTS Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 6:00 pm­Registration ($5.00) & Meet-and-Greet; 7:00 pm­Meeting Happy 42nd birthday to NABS! Remember to bring your contact information on a Brailled index card for registration. Terri Rupp, President 6:45 - 7:45 pm—IMAGINATION FUND TRAINING MEETING Greco Room, Level 4 Kevan Worley, Facilitator SATURDAY, JULY 4, Continued 7:00 - 8:30 pm—NFB AFFILIATE PRESIDENTS AND TREASURERS SEMINAR Nicolet A Room, Level 5 Affiliate presidents and treasurers are asked to attend this seminar about state financial programs, financial data, and planning the end of 2009 and beginning of 2010. Topics include: 990s, state charitable registrations, end-of-year preparations, and other issues. Facilitators: Bridgid Burke and Charlie Brown 7:00 - 8:30 pm—PUBLIC EMPLOYEES DIVISION Richard A Room, Level 5 Ivan Weich, President 7:00 - 9:00 pm—CLASSICS, ANTIQUES, AND RODS (CARS) DIVISION Renoir Room, Level 4 Joseph B. Naulty, President 7:00 - 9:00 pm—“KEYS TO INDEPENDENCE,” NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND PIANO TECHNICIANS SEMINAR Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 Learn how to have a career in piano tuning and repair; it can enhance your independence. Don Mitchell, President 7:30 - 9:30 pm—MEMBERSHIP COMMITTEE Duluth B Room, Level 5 The more we educate, the more we grow. Ron Gardner, Chairperson 7:30 - 10:00 pm—BLIND PARENTS GROUP Brulé B Room, Level 5 Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson 8:00 - 9:00 pm—WHITE CANE AND AFFILIATE FINANCE COMMITTEE Raphael Room, Level 4 Alpidio Rolón, Chairperson 8:00 - 9:30 pm—WEBMASTERS WORKSHOP Greco Room, Level 4 A meeting for all NFB affiliate and division Webmasters. Gary Wunder, Chairperson, Webmasters Group SATURDAY, JULY 4, Continued 8:00 - 10:00 pm—COMMITTEE ON LIBRARY SERVICES Duluth A Room, Level 5 David Hyde, Chairperson 9:00 - 10:00 pm—SPANISH TRANSLATION COMMITTEE Raphael Room, Level 4 Norman Gardner, Chairperson SUNDAY, JULY 5, 2009 7:15 - 8:15 am—ROMAN CATHOLIC MASS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 Fr. Gregory Paul, C.P., Celebrant 8:00 am - 10:00 pm—NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATIONS Room 6401, 64th floor 8:00-11:00 am, 1:30-5:30 pm, and 8:30-10:00 pm—Learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 6:00-7:00 pm—Promotion, Evaluation, and Advancement of Technology Committee gathering. Learn about NFB-NEWSLINE’s revolutionary new online initiatives. 8:30 am - 5:00 pm—REGISTRATION ($20); BANQUET TICKET SALES ($40); Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 8:30 am 5:00 pm— EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND LITERATURE—Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 9:00 11:30 am—NFB BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING (Open to all) Renaissance Ballroom, Level 4 11:45 am - 12:45 pm—THE DIVISION FOR ME—NFB YOUTH TRACK Greco Room, Level 4 A meet-and-greet with NFB division representatives. Coordinator: Mary Jo Thorpe. Co-sponsored by NOPBC and NFB Jernigan Institute. 11:45 am - 1:15 pm—CHURCH SERVICES FOR THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 12:00 noon - 2:00 pm—ROOKIE ROUNDUP GATHERING Affiliate Action Suite 6801 Attention rookies! Participate in a gathering of fun for first-time conventioneers. This is a great opportunity to meet new people and have your convention questions answered by experienced Federationists. SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 12:30 - 4:00 pm—DIABETES ACTION NETWORK FOR THE BLIND Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 12:30 pm ­ Registration; 1:00 pm ­ Meeting begins Keynote speaker is Ann S. Williams, PhD, RN, CDE, a diabetes educator with much experience with diabetic issues. Mike Freeman, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS Richard A Room, Level 5 12:30 pm ­ Registration; 1:00 pm ­ Meeting begins Examine laws affecting blind people and others with disabilities; address ongoing struggles to gain equal access to Web sites, employment, legal texts and exams. Scott LaBarre, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm—NFB IN COMPUTER SCIENCE LaSalle B Room, Level 5 12:30 pm ­ Registration; 1:00 pm ­ Meeting begins Discuss recent releases, concerns of information technology professionals, and other topics. Curtis Chong, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm—“OVERCOMING OBSTACLES THROUGH COURAGE AND DETERMINATION”—National Association of the Blind in Communities of Faith Cadillac A Room, Level 5 12:30 pm ­ Registration; 1:00 pm ­ Meeting begins; Tom Anderson, President 12:30 5:00 pm—REVOLUTIONIZING RANDOLPH-SHEPPARD NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND MERCHANTS MEETING Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 12:30 pm ­ Registration; 1:30 pm ­ Meeting begins Those involved in the Randolph-Sheppard program or who operate a similar business discuss protection of the priority and the creation of new business opportunities and outreach. Kevan Worley, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm—SPORTS AND RECREATION DIVISION Skyline A Room, Courtyard Marriott 12:30 pm ­ Registration; 1:00 pm ­ Meeting begins Wear your sweats and come ready for hands-on presentations in yoga and much more! Lisamaria Martinez, President SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 12:45 - 4:30 pm—MIDDLE SCHOOL BIG ADVENTURE! (Ages 9-14) Meet (and return) at back of Cascade A and B Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott Hang out as a group and have fun exploring with blind mentors Michael Freholm and Garrick Scott. 1:00 - 3:00 pm—BLIND PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISTS GROUP Duluth A Room, Level 5 Elizabeth Campbell, Chairperson 1:00 3:00 pm—CULTURAL EXCHANGE AND INTERNATIONAL PROGRAM COMMITTEE Duluth B Room, Level 5 Diane McGeorge, Chairperson 1:00 3:00 pm—“GRABBING HEADLINES FOR YOUR AFFILIATE” SEMINAR—PUBLIC RELATIONS COMMITTEE Nicolet B Room, Level 5 Topics: locating press contacts; drafting press releases; developing relationships with reporters and editors; working effectively with the media. Barbara Pierce, Chairperson; Seminar conducted by Chris Danielsen and Jessica Freeh, NFB Public Relations 1:00 - 3:00 pm—NOPBC DIVISION ANNUAL MEETING: MAKING THEIR FUTURE DREAMS COME TRUE Cascade A and B Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott Carol Castellano, President 1:00 - 4:00 pm—PERFORMING ARTS DIVISION DaVinci Room, Level 4 Unveiling the “Music of the Movement” album. Hear from an artist recruiter about a media company paving the way for blind audio professionals. Dennis Holston, President 1:00 - 4:00 pm—WRITERS DIVISION BUSINESS MEETING Renoir Room, Level 4 Robert Leslie Newman, President SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 1:00 - 4:30 pm—NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF BLIND EDUCATORS Brulé B Room, Level 5 1:00 pm ­ Registration; 1:30 pm ­ Meeting begins Blind teachers discuss techniques they use in their classrooms; meeting in groups specific to grade level and content areas of interest to create a network of mentors. Sheila Koenig, President 1:00 - 5:00 pm—AUTO SHOW (CLASSICS, ANTIQUES, AND SPECIAL INTEREST VEHICLES) Location to be announced. Joe Naulty, CARS Division President 1:00 - 5:00 pm—NATIONAL CERTIFICATION IN LITERARY BRAILLE (NCLB) OFFICIAL EXAMINATION—SECTIONS THREE AND FOUR Cascade C and D Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott Participants must have preregistered. Sponsored by the National Blindness Professional Certification Board 1:00 - 5:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND REHABILITATION PROFESSIONALS Brulé A Room, Level 5 1:00 pm ­ Registration; 2:00 pm ­ Meeting begins Network, share mutual interests, find placement strategies, and examine and discuss concerns and current issues. Melody Lindsey, President 1:00 - 5:00 pm—“SENIORS IN CHARGE” NFB SENIORS DIVISION MEETING & (SOMEWHAT) SILENT AUCTION Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 Find out ways to spread our message of hope to newly blind seniors. We’re also having our popular not-so-silent auction. Judy Sanders, President 1:00 - 6:00 pm—HUMAN SERVICES DIVISION SEMINAR AND BUSINESS MEETING Nicolet A Room, Level 5 1:00 pm ­ Registration; 2:00 pm ­ Meeting begins; 5:00 pm ­ Networking Psychologists, social workers, counselors, and music or dance therapists meeting to network and ask questions. Melissa Riccobono, President SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 1:30 - 4:45 pm—knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Session One: 1:30 - 2:45 pm; Session Two: 3:00 - 4:45 pm Use your cell phone to read print—it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 3:00 - 4:30 pm—NOPBC PARENT POWER WORKSHOP Cascade A and B Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott Parent leaders from around the country share their experiences. Moderator: Barbara Mathews 3:15 - 4:45 pm—MEET THE BLIND MONTH ACTIVITIES AND OTHER SPECIAL EVENTS SEMINAR: PLANS AND ACTION EQUAL SUCCESS Duluth B Room, Level 5 October is “Meet the Blind Month.” Find out about events that are entertaining and fun and encouraging chapters to try new types of fundraising and meet-and-greet events. Jerry Lazarus, NFB Jernigan Institute 5:00 - 6:30 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS RECEPTION Richard B Room, Level 5 For NABL members and seminar participants to promote networking and fellowship within our membership. Hors d'oeuvres and cash bar available. Scott LaBarre, President 5:00 - 7:00 pm—BRAILLE BOOK FLEA MARKET Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Happy Birthday, Louis Braille! Browse tables of new and used Braille and print/Braille books. UPS volunteers will ship the books to your home free of charge. Donations requested to support the Braille Readers are Leaders program. Cake and snacks for browsers. Cosponsored by NOPBC and NAPUB. Coordinator: Peggy Chong 5:00 - 8:00 pm—JUDO WORKSHOP; SPORTS & REC DIVISION Skyline B Room, Courtyard Marriott Join USA Judo and paralympian bronze medal winner Greg DeWall to learn about judo from people involved in the sport. See you on the mat! Lisamaria Martinez, President SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 5:30 - 7:00 pm—KURZWEIL 1000 USERS’ MEETING Richard A Room, Level 5 Join the Kurzweil 1000 Users’ Contingent! Meet with Steve Baum, Vice President of Engineering, and share some Kurzweil 1000 experiences. Kurzweil 1000 is our state-of-the-art, text-to-speech and life navigation software for blind and visually impaired readers. 5:30 - 7:30 pm—AGRICULTURE AND EQUESTRIAN DIVISION Duluth A Room, Level 5 Fred Chambers, President 6:00 - 10:00 pm—BACK TO BASICS: FOUNDATIONS IN MEMBERSHIP AND CHAPTER DEVELOPMENT Ambassador Two Ballroom, Level 3 Topics: running a purposeful chapter meeting, community projects and chapter fundraising, and weaving Federation philosophy into local meetings. NFB Affiliate Action Team 6:00 - 10:00 pm—DEAF BLIND DIVISION Nicolet B Room, Level 5 6:00 pm ­ Registration; 7:00 pm ­ Meeting begins Burnell Brown, President 6:00 - 10:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GUIDE DOG USERS SEMINAR 6:00 pm ­ Registration; 7:00 pm ­ Meeting begins Brulé A Room, Level 5 Topics: Islam, the Koran, and guide dogs; Training Centers and Guide Dogs: a panel discussion; and massage for dogs. You can also “test drive” a guide dog! Marion Gwizdala, President 6:30 - 9:00 pm—ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGY TRAINERS DIVISION Renoir Room, Level 4 6:30 pm ­ Registration; 7:00 pm ­ Meeting begins Note-taking devices to recommend to clients and what to do about students who are seemingly “unteachable.” Michael Barber, President SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 6:30 - 9:30 pm—SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING DIVISION Cascade A and B Ballrooms, Courtyard Marriott 6:30 pm ­ Registration; 7:00 pm ­ Meeting begins John Miller, President 7:00 - 8:30 pm—LIVING HISTORY GROUP Nicolet A Room, Level 5 Dedicated to recording, preserving, and appreciating Federation history. Michael Freholm, Chairperson 7:00 - 8:30 pm—“SOMETIMES TRUTH REPELS” a play by Jerry Whittle (Admission: $5.00; Second Performance is at 9:00 pm) Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 A play about the teaching career of Louis Braille performed by the Louisiana Center for the Blind Players. Proceeds go to the Louisiana Center for the Blind’s summer training program for blind children. 7:00 - 9:00 pm—COMMITTEE TO EMPOWER UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS LaSalle B Room, Level 5 Ron Brown, Chairperson 7:00 - 9:00 pm—FEDERATION RE-GENERATION Duluth B Room, Level 5 Do you need to rejuvenate and kick-start your affiliate with fresh ideas? Re-generate! Get a new generation involved. Join the NFB Jernigan Institute Education Team to learn more about program possibilities. 7:00 - 9:00 pm—NFB KRAFTERS DIVISION BUSINESS MEETING Cadillac A Room, Level 5 Unveiling new craft initiatives, including plans for a new Web site and information on our Monday night nationwide chats. Joyce Kane, President 7:00 - 9:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION TO PROMOTE THE USE OF BRAILLE (NAPUB) SEMINAR Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 Celebrating Louis Braille’s 200th birthday! Receive information about the commemorative Louis Braille silver dollar, the NFB Share Braille Web site project, and more. Nadine Jacobson, President SUNDAY, JULY 5, Continued 7:00 - 9:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND VETERANS LaSalle A Room, Level 5 Guest speakers; reviewing access technology; unveiling the 2009 NABV pin. Pay dues and receive an NABV-3 shirt. Dwight Sayer, President 7:00 - 10:00 pm—MARCH FOR INDEPENDENCE MARCHER DROP-IN BRIEFINGS (THREE SEPARATE SESSIONS) Brulé B Room, Level 5 Session One: 7:00-8:00 pm; Session Two 8:00-9:00 pm; Session Three 9:00-10:00 pm. Drop in anytime and help us lead the 2009 March for Independence. Facilitator: Kevan Worley 7:30 - 9:00 pm—DADS’ NIGHT OUT Contact Brad Weatherd for location All dads, sighted and blind, are welcome. Sponsored by the NOPBC 7:30 - 9:00 pm—NFB IN JUDAISM MEETING Room 6405, 64th Floor David Stayer, Chairperson 7:30 - 10:00 pm—COMMITTEE FOR THE PROMOTION, EVALUATION, AND ADVANCEMENT OF TECHNOLOGY; Gary Wunder, Chairperson Greco Room, Level 4 8:00 - 9:30 pm—MAKING BRAILLE BOOKS FOR CHILDREN Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Make Braille books at home that will inspire your child to read and explore. Sponsored by NOPBC. Instructors: Carlton Walker and Krystal Guillory 9:00 - 10:30 pm—“SOMETIMES TRUTH REPELS,” a play by Jerry Whittle (Second Performance) Admission: $5.00 Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 A play about the teaching career of Louis Braille performed by the Louisiana Center for the Blind Players. Proceeds go to the Louisiana Center for the Blind’s summer training program for blind children. 9:30 - 10:30 pm—FRIENDS OF RECOVERY MEETING Raphael Room, Level 4 Coordinator: Gary Ray MONDAY, JULY 6, 2009 6:45 am—MOTOR CITY MARCH FOR INDEPENDENCE RALLY! Please gather in the Wintergarden on Level A of the Detroit Marriott for a 7:00 am start. NOTE: Because of the March for Independence, there are no registration, devotions, Independence Market and Literature, or Exhibit Hall activities on Monday morning. OPENING GENERAL SESSION 9:30 am INVOCATION 9:35 am WELCOMING CEREMONIES 9:55 am CELEBRATION OF FREEDOM: VETERANS RECOGNIZED Dwight Sayer, President, National Association of Blind Veterans, National Federation of the Blind; Winter Gardens, Florida 10:05 am ROLL CALL OF STATES AND APPOINTMENT OF NOMINATING COMMITTEE 11:45 am REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 12:00 pm ADJOURN 12:00 noon 12:30 pm and 1:30 - 2:00 pm—REGISTRATION ($20); FINAL BANQUET TICKET SALES ($40)—Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 12:00 noon 1:45 pm—EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND LITERATURE—Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 MONDAY, JULY 6, Continued 12:15 - 2:00 pm—LOUISIANA CENTER FOR THE BLIND ALUMNI LUNCHEON Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Contact: Pam Allen, Director, Louisiana Center for the Blind GENERAL SESSION 2:00 pm CALL TO ORDER 2:05 pm PRESIDENTIAL REPORT, Marc Maurer 3:00 pm POLICIES TO ENHANCE EMPLOYMENT, INCLUSION, SAFETY, AND PRODUCTIVITY The Honorable John D. Dingell, Member of Congress, 15th Congressional District; Michigan 3:20 pm PROMOTING PEDESTRIAN SAFETY: A PRIORITY FOR MANUFACTURERS The Honorable Dave McCurdy, President and CEO, Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers; McLean, Virginia 3:40 pm THE JOURNEY OF BRAILLE: FROM THE HANDS OF THE CREATOR TO EARTH ORBIT 4:00 pm THE VALUE OF A COIN, OF A COMMUNICATION SYSTEM, AND OF A CLASS OF HUMAN BEINGS Fredric K. Schroeder, Ph.D., Research Professor, San Diego State University; Vienna, Virginia 4:25 pm PROVIDING THE FUNDAMENTAL TOOLS: BRAILLE BOOKS Brian A. McDonald, President, National Braille Press; Boston, Massachusetts 4:40 pm REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 5:00 pm ADJOURN MONDAY, JULY 6, Continued 5:30 - 6:30 pm—NOMINATING COMMITTEE; Sharon Maneki, Chairperson Cadillac A Room, Level 5 6:00 - 8:00 pm—AFB INTRODUCES ACCESSIBLE WALKING DIRECTIONS AND NEW CareerConnect FEATURES Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 The American Foundation for the Blind’s reception introduces Mapquest Accessible Walking Directions and new CareerConnect offerings. Be the first to try a free online directions service. Join up as a CareerConnect leader or mentor. We look forward to reconnecting with old friends. 6:00 - 9:00 pm—INDOOR ROWING; SPORTS & REC DIVISION Skyline A and B Rooms, Courtyard Marriott Row your way into fitness and maintain a healthy lifestyle using an accessible rowing machine. Prizes plus plenty of fun! Lisamaria Martinez, President 6:30 - 8:00 pm—GUITAR SEMINAR LaSalle B Room, Level 5 Learn about the guitar; get advice from a professional musician, Cameron Strife; $5 donation. Presented by the NFB Performing Arts Division 6:30 - 10:00 pm—NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATION Room 6401, 64th floor Drop by and learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 7:00 - 8:30 pm—NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS, REHAB PROFESSIONALS, AND INTERESTED OTHERS: IEPs: Evals, Goals, Strategies, the Law Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructor: Carlton Walker The Science of Getting in on Science Cascade B Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Cary Supalo, Marilyn Winograd, Dr. Lillian Rankel Mental Mapping: Using Environmental Sounds and Clues Cascade C Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructor: Daniel Kish MONDAY, JULY 6, Continued 7:00 - 8:30 pm—BOOKSHARE AT NFB MEMBER PARTY LaSalle A Room, Level 5 Enjoy snacks and refreshments while meeting the Bookshare staff. This is your opportunity to talk with us and share your ideas; we’re here to listen. Plan to have fun with contests, drawings, and interacting with your fellow members. We look forward to seeing you. 7:00 - 9:00 pm—BRAILLE READERS ARE LEADERS: THE INITIATIVE FOR CHANGE Duluth B Room, Level 5 One representative from each affiliate should attend this session. Help to ensure Braille literacy for all by learning about the exciting developments and discuss strategies for promoting Louis Braille bicentennial coins. 7:00 - 9:00 pm—MOVING LEGISLATION ON THE STATE AND NATIONAL LEVEL SEMINAR Cadillac B Room, Level 5 Each affiliate should send one representative. Learn the best methods of increasing support for our legislative priorities. Changing lives through laws is our business. Led by Jesse Hartle, NFB Strategic Initiatives Staff 7:00 - 10:00 pm—A SPECIAL EVENING FOR SPONSOR-LEVEL EXHIBITORS Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 The exhibit hall reopens for an evening dedicated solely to sponsor-level exhibitors. Come and bring a guest to say “thank you” to our sponsors and to enjoy their interesting offers and demonstrations. Our convention sponsors are—Platinum: HumanWare and UPS; Gold: Deque Systems, Inc., Freedom Scientific, and Oracle; Silver: En-Vision America, Intel®, and Wal-Mart; Bronze: Adobe, Council of U.S. Dog Guide Schools (CUSDGS), IBM, Independent Living Aids (ILA), and Microsoft; Exhibit Hall: GW Micro, J&B Medical Supply, National Industries for the Blind, ReadHowYouWant, and Roche Diagnostics. 7:00 - 10:00 pm—NOPBC CHILDREN’S ACTIVITY (ages 5-13) A UNIVERSALLY FUN TIME Cascade D Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Drop in and explore the universe with Noreen Grice; volunteers led by Michael Freholm MONDAY, JULY 6, Continued 7:00 - midnight—NFB OF MICHIGAN HOSPITALITY DANCE Ambassador Ballroom, Level 3 ? “There may be trouble ahead but while there’s moonlight and music and love and romance let’s face the music and dance!”? Join our host affiliate to enjoy dancing or simply listening to some really good music. Entertainment provided by “Nine,” a nine-piece band performing Motown, soul, classic rock, pop, and old standards. 7:30 - 8:30 pm—NFB YOUTH TRACK MEETINGS ME AND THE GOSSIP GIRLS (ages 14-18) Greco Room, Level 4 Girls—bring your questions and thoughts about makeup, dating, or just how to get more involved in your school. ME AND THE GUYS (ages 14-18) Renoir Room, Level 4 Guys—talk about cars, dating, school, or how to nail that perfect job to make a little extra money. 8:00 - 10:00 pm—COMMITTEE ON AUTOMOBILE AND PEDESTRIAN SAFETY (CAPS); Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson Nicolet A Room, Level 5 8:30 - 10:00 pm—NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS, REHAB PROFESSIONALS, AND INTERESTED OTHERS Pro to Pro to Parent to Para—Learn How Your Child’s “Team” Can Work Together Cascade A Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Dr. Denise Robinson and Gail Wagner Taking the Headaches Out of Adapting in Math Cascade B Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructors: Eric and Krystal Guillory Summer Jobs, Vocational Rehabilitation, and Volunteering Cascade C Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Instructor: Jan Bailey TUESDAY, JULY 7, 2009 7:30 - 8:15 am—DEVOTIONS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 8:00 8:30 am—REGISTRATION ($20) Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 GENERAL SESSION 9:00 am INVOCATION 9:05 am FINANCIAL REPORT 10:00 am ELECTIONS 10:30 am EXPANDING ACCESS TO DIGITAL INFORMATION FOR THE BLIND Gilles Pepin, Chief Executive Officer, HumanWare; Drummondville, Canada 10:50 am A BLIND ATHLETE IN THE PARALYMPICS Tyler Merren, 2008 U.S. Paralympic Team Member, Men’s Goalball; Kalamazoo, Michigan 11:05 am DEVELOPMENTS AT THE FIRST EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION FOR THE BLIND IN THE UNITED STATES, PERKINS Steven M. Rothstein, President, Perkins School for the Blind; Watertown, Massachusetts 11:25 am THE FEDERATION IN THE WORLD FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE WORLD BLIND UNION Maryanne Diamond, President, World Blind Union; Melbourne, Australia 11:40 am REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 12:00 pm ADJOURN TUESDAY, JULY 7, Continued 12:00 noon 12:30 pm and 1:30 - 2:00 pm—REGISTRATION ($20) Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 12:00 noon 1:45 pm—EXHIBITS AND NFB INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND LITERATURE—(Final Time Period for Independence Market and Literature) Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 GENERAL SESSION 2:00 pm CALL TO ORDER 2:05 pm STRATEGIC INITIATIVES REPORT John Paré, Executive Director for Strategic Initiatives, National Federation of the Blind; Baltimore, Maryland 2:35 pm REPORTS, RESOLUTIONS, AND OTHER BUSINESS 5:00 pm ADJOURN 6:00 - 10:00 pm—IT WASN'T ME, A MURDER MYSTERY AT THE CLUB Mackinac East Ballroom, Level 5 Play along as guests at a dance club while private investigators try to solve a murder. Early arrivers are assigned a character role to play for the evening. Latecomers won't be able to play along but are welcome to watch the game and enjoy the experience. Presented by NFB Youth Track. 6:30 - 9:00 pm—COLORADO CENTER FOR THE BLIND OPEN HOUSE Brulé A and B Rooms, Level 5 Discover how good training can change your life. Julie Deden, Director 6:30 - 9:30 pm—NOPBC CHILDREN’S ACTIVITY (Ages 5-14) WE WILL NOT LET CONVENTION ACQUAINTANCES BE FORGOT Cascade C Ballroom, Courtyard Marriott Led by Michael Freholm TUESDAY, JULY 7, Continued 6:30 - 10:00 pm—NFB-NEWSLINE® PRESENTATION Room 6401, 64th floor Stop by and learn about NEWSLINE In Your Pocket, Web News on Demand, and other new features. 7:00 - 8:15 pm—knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print—it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 7:00 - 8:30 pm—BLIND MUSICIANS GROUP BUSINESS MEETING Duluth B Room, Level 5 Linda Mentink, Chairperson 7:00 - 8:30 pm—NINTH ANNUAL RANDOLPH-SHEPPARD RECEPTION HOSTED BY THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND MERCHANTS Richard B Room, Level 5 Socialize, network, and learn more about Randolph-Sheppard and other business opportunities we can create through our work in the NFB. Kevan Worley, President 7:00 - 9:00 pm—COUNCIL OF U.S. DOG GUIDE SCHOOLS (CUSDGS) RECEPTION Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 Learn how a dog guide can impact your life from featured speaker Michael Hingson, a World Trade Center survivor. Meet representatives from participating schools and learn about their programs. You can even schedule a “Juno” walk for later in the week. 7:00 9:00 pm—“SOCIAL SECURITY AND SUPPLEMENTAL SECURITY INCOME: WHAT APPLICANTS, ADVOCATES, AND RECIPIENTS SHOULD KNOW” SEMINAR Cadillac B Room, Level 5 Information on Social Security and SSI benefits, including the income subsidy program for those receiving the Medicare prescription drug benefit. Presenter: Dan Frye, Attorney and Associate Editor of the Braille Monitor TUESDAY, JULY 7, Continued 7:00 10:00 pm—EXHIBITS ONLY (Independence Market and Literature Closed)—Ontario Exhibit Hall, Level 3 7:00 - 11:00 pm—ANNUAL SHOWCASE OF TALENT—Admission $5.00 Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 Register early by contacting Beth Allred at the convention. Proceeds benefit the scholarship program in memory of Mary Ann Parks. Sponsored by the Performing Arts Division; Dennis Holston, President 7:00 - 11:00 pm—HUMANWARE LOW VISION PRODUCTS SEMINAR Nicolet B Room, Level 5 Come and learn about HumanWare’s exciting low vision products in a hands-on, interactive seminar: myReader 2 video magnifier; SmartView desktop units; portable handheld devices; and a distance viewing system. Presenter: Ed Wikdall 8:00 - 10:00 pm—COMMITTEE ON RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT LaSalle A Room, Level 5 If you have an interest in new technologies and believe that spectacular accomplishments are possible when blind people themselves are involved—then join our meeting. Curtis Chong, Chairperson 8:00 - 11:30 pm—MONTE CARLO NIGHT Mackinac West Ballroom, Level 5 Try your luck at any of the usual card games found on a casino floor. Prizes go to the top three winners holding the most chips at the end of the evening. Sponsored by the National Association of Blind Students 8:30 - 9:45 pm—knfbReader MOBILE DEMONSTRATION & TRAINING Greco Room, Level 4 Use your cell phone to read print—it’s really that simple! Come and learn how this fabulous, life-changing technology can work for you. Go totally mobile and join the reading revolution today! 9:30 - 10:30 pm—FRIENDS OF RECOVERY MEETING Raphael Room, Level 4 Coordinator: Gary Ray WEDNESDAY, JULY 8, 2009 8:00 - 8:45 am—DEVOTIONS Ambassador One Ballroom, Level 3 8:30 9:00 am—REGISTRATION ($20)—Final opportunity to register. Renaissance Foyer, Level 4 GENERAL SESSION 9:00 am INVOCATION 9:05 am THE NEAR-PERFECT AUDIO BOOK: HOW WE DO IT Frank Kurt Cylke, Director, National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Library of Congress; Washington, D.C. Mary Beth Wise, Quality Assurance Specialist, National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Library of Congress; Washington, D.C. 9:25 am QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION 9:30 am THE DEMAND, THE CRISIS, THE SOLUTION IN EDUCATION FOR THE BLIND Edward Bell, Ph.D., Director, Professional Development and Research Institute on Blindness, Louisiana Tech University; Ruston, Louisiana 9:45 am THE THEORY AND THE PRACTICE: EDUCATION FOR THE BLIND IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL Denise M. Robinson, Ph.D., Teacher and Coordinator of Programming for Blind and Visually Impaired Students; Yakima, Washington 10:00 am WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO MAKE THAT CHILD BLIND? Carol Castellano, President, National Organization of Parents of Blind Children, National Federation of the Blind; Madison, New Jersey WEDNESDAY, JULY 8, Continued 10:20 am TEACHING AN ESSENTIAL SKILL: BRAILLE Jerry Whittle, Teacher-Counselor, Louisiana Center for the Blind; Ruston, Louisiana April Davis, Coordinator of Summer Programs for Blind Children, Louisiana Center for the Blind; Ruston, Louisiana James Mays, Industrial Arts Teacher, Louisiana Center for the Blind; Ruston, Louisiana Deja Powell, Cane Travel Instructor, Utah Division of Services for the Blind and Visually Impaired; Salt Lake City, Utah Anil Lewis, President, National Federation of the Blind of Georgia; Atlanta, Georgia Terri Rupp, President, National Federation of the Blind of Nevada; Las Vegas, Nevada 10:50 am FROM THE CENTER OF HISTORY: FIVE YEARS INTO THE FUTURE OF THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND JERNIGAN INSTITUTE Mark Riccobono, Executive Director, National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute; Baltimore, Maryland 11:10 am FRONTIER CAREERS FOR THE BLIND INCLUDE ENGINEERING Leigh R. Abts, Ph.D., Research Associate Professor of Engineering and Education, University of Maryland; College Park, Maryland 11:25 am NFB NEWSLINE: FROM PHONE TO COMPUTER TO PODCAST TO POCKET Scott White, Director of Sponsored Technology, National Federation of the Blind; Baltimore, Maryland 11:40 am REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 12:00 pm ADJOURN WEDNESDAY, JULY 8, Continued 12:00 noon - 1:45 pm—HAM RADIO GROUP BUSINESS MEETING Raphael Room, Level 4 We will consider the amendment of the division constitution that we adopted last year. D. Curtis Willoughby (KA0VBA), Chairperson 12:00 noon - 1:45 pm—NFB CAMP TOY SALE Marquette A Room, Level 5 Everything must go—30 to 70 percent off toys purchased for NFB Camp. 12:00 noon - 1:45 pm—RAFFLES AND DRAWINGS LaSalle A Room, Level 5 12:15 - 1:45 pm—EVERYTHING YOU'VE EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT THE NLS Nicolet B Room, Level 5 A question-and-answer session with Frank Kurt Cylke, Director, and staff of the National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Library of Congress. GENERAL SESSION 2:00 pm CALL TO ORDER 2:05 pm SHAPING THE STANDARD FOR THE LEGAL COMMUNITY: THE NECESSITY FOR ACCESS TO INFORMATION FOR ALL Daniel Goldstein, Esq., Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP; Baltimore, Maryland 2:25 pm NEGOTIATING ACCESSIBLE ELECTRONIC BOOKS: A MASSIVE UNDERTAKING, A SMASHING SUCCESS Jack Bernard, Esq., Chair, Counsel for Disability Concerns, and Assistant General Counsel, University of Michigan; Ann Arbor, Michigan 2:45 pm THE COMMITMENT OF MICROSOFT TO ACCESSIBLE TECHNOLOGY Rob Sinclair, Director of Accessibility, Microsoft Corporation; Redound, Washington WEDNESDAY, JULY 8, Continued 3:05 pm TRANSCENDING THE BARRIERS OF YESTERDAY, ANTICIPATING THE ROMANCE OF THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE WITH THE TECHNOLOGY OF TOMORROW Ray Kurzweil, President and Chief Executive Officer, KNFB-Reading Technology, Inc.; Wellesley Hills, Massachusetts 3:25 pm REPRESENTING THE CITY OF CHICAGO Patti Chang, Esq., Senior Corporation Counsel, City of Chicago; Chicago, Illinois 3:45 pm DR. JACOB BOLOTIN AWARD Gary Wunder, Chairperson, Dr. Jacob Bolotin Award Committee, and Secretary, National Federation of the Blind; Columbia, Missouri 4:15 pm THE RIGHT OF THE PEDESTRIAN TO BE SAFE IN THE WORLD Ronald Medford, Acting Deputy Administrator, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration; Washington, D.C. 4:30 pm REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 5:00 pm ADJOURN 7:00 pm—BANQUET Renaissance Ballroom, Level 4 INVOCATION MASTER OF CEREMONIES: Fredric K. Schroeder INTRODUCTIONS AND PRESENTATIONS BANQUET ADDRESS: Marc Maurer SCHOLARSHIP AWARDS 10:00 pm - midnight—AFTER BANQUET PARTY Ambassador Three Ballroom, Level 3 10:00 pm—SCIENCE FICTION MEETING All persons interested in science fiction and fantasy are welcome to join in an open discussion. Please contact Ed Meskys for room location. Thank You... The National Federation of the Blind would like to give a special thank you to VBrick Systems for donating the technology and Internet services to allow full streaming of all general sessions of the convention, the meeting of the board of directors, and the annual banquet. Through this contribution, more individuals will learn about the outstanding work that comes out of the largest gathering of the blind in the world. The National Federation of the Blind acknowledges with gratitude our Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze, and Exhibit Hall Convention Sponsors below. Their messages follow. Platinum Sponsors: HumanWare UPS Gold Sponsors: Deque Systems, Inc. Freedom Scientific Oracle Silver Sponsors: En-Vision America Intel® Wal-Mart Bronze Sponsors: Adobe Council of U.S. Dog Guide Schools (CUSDGS) IBM Independent Living Aids (ILA) Microsoft Exhibit Hall Sponsors: GW Micro J&B Medical Supply National Industries for the Blind ReadHowYouWant Roche Diagnostics From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Sat May 30 22:44:04 2009 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 15:44:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] talking watch Message-ID: <765584.66194.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I realize this is a weird post; but, I was wondering if any of you have experienced this.    I have a talking watch that has two batteries--one controls the hands that show the time to the sighted user and the other controls the voice. Anyway, within the last two days, it fails to respond sometimes when I press the time and somehow is frozen on whatever the time was when I last checked it. Resetting the time gets it stuck again. Other than that, the voice sounds fine so I know the battery isn't dying. (In fact, the last time I replaced the batteries, I replaced them both. The clock face battery died within two years of my owning the watch and the voice battery conked out four years of owning the watch.)   So, any thoughts? Is it time to get a new watch?   Thanks.   Mike   From dandrews at visi.com Sat May 30 22:48:56 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 17:48:56 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Question In-Reply-To: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst> References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst> Message-ID: This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual text. Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then makes that image file into a PDF. You can OCR it, . At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote: >Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty >document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is >their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list, >at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4113 (20090528) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun May 31 05:45:22 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 22:45:22 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] talking watch In-Reply-To: <765584.66194.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <765584.66194.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1FE33C67D4364C27804BAAD138E2836D@spike> Idf the watch is stopping or sticking it sounds like it might need to be cleaned. You need to take it to a jeweler or watch repair shop or have a sighted person look at it as they may be able to see dirt or grime in it. While this is more common with Braille watches as a result of their being opened talking watches like any other electronic equipment can get dirt in it. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Gilmore" To: Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 3:44 PM Subject: [blindlaw] talking watch I realize this is a weird post; but, I was wondering if any of you have experienced this. I have a talking watch that has two batteries--one controls the hands that show the time to the sighted user and the other controls the voice. Anyway, within the last two days, it fails to respond sometimes when I press the time and somehow is frozen on whatever the time was when I last checked it. Resetting the time gets it stuck again. Other than that, the voice sounds fine so I know the battery isn't dying. (In fact, the last time I replaced the batteries, I replaced them both. The clock face battery died within two years of my owning the watch and the voice battery conked out four years of owning the watch.) So, any thoughts? Is it time to get a new watch? Thanks. Mike _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun May 31 14:40:16 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 10:40:16 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Question In-Reply-To: References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst> Message-ID: <19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC> How can you get a scanned document to read. This seems to be happening more and more. I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send things like newsletters. This is frustrating, don't you think? Steve-- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question > This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual > text. Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then > makes that image file into a PDF. You can OCR it, . > At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote: >>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty >>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is >>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list, >>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ >> >> >>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________ >> >>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >>http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>for blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 05/31/09 05:53:00 From k7uij at panix.com Sun May 31 18:25:50 2009 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 11:25:50 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] talking watch References: <765584.66194.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0463676AEC5942D1A18060446DC58E44@owner96190708e> I had one of those watches and it *never* worked right; the time on the hands never corresponded with the voice. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Gilmore" To: Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 3:44 PM Subject: [blindlaw] talking watch I realize this is a weird post; but, I was wondering if any of you have experienced this. I have a talking watch that has two batteries--one controls the hands that show the time to the sighted user and the other controls the voice. Anyway, within the last two days, it fails to respond sometimes when I press the time and somehow is frozen on whatever the time was when I last checked it. Resetting the time gets it stuck again. Other than that, the voice sounds fine so I know the battery isn't dying. (In fact, the last time I replaced the batteries, I replaced them both. The clock face battery died within two years of my owning the watch and the voice battery conked out four years of owning the watch.) So, any thoughts? Is it time to get a new watch? Thanks. Mike _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From womankind at earthlink.net Sun May 31 19:46:10 2009 From: womankind at earthlink.net (Stephanie Ortoleva) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 15:46:10 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] changing from WindowEyes to JAWS In-Reply-To: <0463676AEC5942D1A18060446DC58E44@owner96190708e> References: <765584.66194.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <0463676AEC5942D1A18060446DC58E44@owner96190708e> Message-ID: Does anyone have thoughts on the learning curve on changing from WindowEyes to JAWS given the fact that I tend to have a job that requires working 10 to 11 hours a day and not much time for on-line or in-person training? I am also a computer idiot. Smile. Stephanie Ortoleva From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Sun May 31 21:34:55 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 14:34:55 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Question In-Reply-To: <19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC> References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst> <19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Yes, this does happened a lot, because the machine on which the PDF scan is created is not set to create the imbedded text scan. If this happens a lot and you know the person who is sending you the PDF, then you can ask them to go into the software on the scan equipment and check the box for text scanning to be included as an imbedded part of the PDF document. It makes the file larger, but not as much an increase as I would have guessed. The alternative is to either get the Adobe Professional level software, which comes with a built-in text recognition feature, or in the case of Openbook, run it through the Freedom Import virtual scanner, which in my experience works better than Adobe's built-in scanner. Also, the Adobe built-in scanner gives no audible feedback while it is working, so with a large document, you can sit there for several minutes wondering if it is still working or has locked up. I have no idea if the KW scanning software has a similar feature, but I would guess it does, since the two products seem to stay pretty even with each other. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question How can you get a scanned document to read. This seems to be happening more and more. I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send things like newsletters. This is frustrating, don't you think? Steve-- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question > This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual > text. Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then > makes that image file into a PDF. You can OCR it, . > At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote: >>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty >>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is >>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list, >>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ >> >> >>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________ >> >>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >>http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>for blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40v isi.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley% 40insightbb.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 05/31/09 05:53:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov