[blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard LSATadministration

Mon May 18 23:25:14 UTC 2009

Well, you talk to us after you get the results.  Are you using Braille, 
audio or large print.
Steve----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Spiry" <bspiry at comcast.net>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard 
LSATadministration

> I've been watching this post closely as I will be taking the LSAT in June.
> Frankly, concerns regarding what the LSAC communicates to the school
> regarding test accommodations, I'd be much more concerned about attending
> any program that would be biased against an applicant with a disability
> based on the fact that he or she has received accommodation on the LSAT.
> Such an inclination for discriminatory bias by a school would not bode 
> well
> for what you could expect as a student in that program and your chances 
> for
> success would be in question.  If you've got a need for accommodation to 
> be
> successful, don't try to hide that fact until you're already in the mix...
> that is a pretty effective way to set yourself up to fail.
>
> As to one of the posters who suggest that asking for additional time to
> complete the LSAT as an accommodation somehow equates to an admission that
> you are less capable than others who are not blind...  is absolutely
> preposterous.  Success is about outcomes and the quality of those 
> outcomes,
> not whether you can prove that you can meet some arbitrary time standard
> designed only with sighted test takers in mind.
> Obviously we cannot expect to have unlimited time to accomplish a task in
> the real world, there are deadlines and time related needs that we must
> satisfy.  but most folks with a disability who are capable of functioning 
> in
> the real world also understand that there is more than one way to "skin a
> cat" and that using the resources we need to level the playing field is 
> part
> of that.  We learn to play to our strengths and fight the battle on our
> terms as much as possible.  I've learned that lesson well out in the real
> professional world over the past 20 years.  The LSAT is one of those
> battlefields that we have no choice but to face. Based on the practice and
> training I've been going through of late on this, it's also pretty clear
> that trying to survive that fight based on rules created with sighted
> examinees in mind would be academic suicide.  We're not in this to earn 
> some
> bloody badge of courage for fighting the fight with our hands tied and 
> with
> a blindfold on, we're in this to apply the capabilities we know we must 
> have
> to successfully  achieve a law degree and function as a professional in 
> the
> real world.
>
> Blindness is different for everyone and we all got to where we are on
> different paths with different approaches.  I agree that there are 
> probably
> plenty of blind people out there who did not get adequate training in the
> skills of blindness and who are not ready to face the rigors of law 
> school..
> by my take that is not much different than all the non-disabled kids out
> there who fall between the cracks educationally and are at least equally
> unprepared for the real world.    That is another battle.  The point is 
> that
> just because a blind person hasn't learned Braille or some of the other 
> "by
> the book" skills of blindness, and has learned to use some other
> accommodations and compensating skills to get the job done, it sure as 
> hell
> doesn't equate to failure... and having to take additional time for the 
> LSAT
> due to blindness or another disability sure as hell doesn't mean that 
> person
> is less capable of succeeding as a law student.  Use the accommodations 
> for
> the LSAT, don't try to hide that fact, and focus on succeeding.
>
> Bill
>
> ----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:16 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard
> LSATadministration
>
> I don't see that as entirely practical.
>
> The test is visually biased and the stakes could not possibly be
> higher.  If you want to take a gamble like that, knowing that the
> test is designed for you to fail without the accommodation because it
> depends upon visual processing skills, you go right ahead.
>
> One of the skills I think people entering college have often failed
> to learn is knowing what they can honestly accomplish.  Many believe
> they cannot do things that they can and will do.  Some believe they
> can do things they cannot.
>
> I can already hear the response of, "How will you know until you
> try?"  My answer is that a test that determines whether or not you
> are deemed worthy of a particular career is not the time to be
> experimenting.  If you know you can do it with the accommodation, but
> don't know if you could do it without, take the accommodation for the
> LSAT.  It's an artificial environment with artificial rules and an
> artificial result.  Accommodations used therein have little bearing
> on the "real world".
>
> Unless any of you have had major cases hinge upon how many gumballs
> fit into a given shaped container or the other silliness I've seen on
> practice exams.
>
> Joseph
>
>
> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 08:03:24PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote:
>> It would almost be better for a blind to take the test without the extra
>> time accommodations if it is at all possible.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie Enyart"
>> <stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] text of LSAC's letter to accompany non-standard
>> LSATadministration
>>
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>> Since Haben asked about the type of communication that will accompany 
>>> any
>>> non-standard test (any test taken with extended time due to a 
>>> disability)
>>> here is a copy of what the LSAC sends with the score report to law
>>> schools:
>>>
>>> "Dear Colleague:
>>> This candidate took a __fill in test date___ LSAT under nonstandard
> timing
>>> conditions in order to accommodate his or her disability. The 
>>> nonstandard
>>> test this candidate received was administered on or about the same test
>>> date
>>> as the corresponding standard administration.
>>> Because this candidate's score was earned under nonstandard timing
>>> conditions, it is important to note that the degree of comparability of
>>> this
>>> score to scores earned under standard conditions cannot be determined.
> The
>>> LSAC's Cautionary Policies Concerning LSAT Scores and Related Services
>>> explain:
>>> LSAC has no data to demonstrate that scores earned under accommodated
>>> conditions have the same meaning as scores earned under standard
>>> conditions.
>>> Because the LSAT has not been validated in its various accommodated
> forms,
>>> accommodated tests are identified as nonstandard, and an individual's
>>> scores
>>> from accommodated tests are not averaged with scores from tests taken
>>> under
>>> standard conditions. The fact that accommodations were granted for the
>>> LSAT
>>> should not be dispositive evidence that accommodations should be granted
>>> once a test taker becomes a student. The accommodation needed for a
>>> one-day
>>> multiple choice test may be different from those needed for law school
>>> course work and examinations."
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma
>>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:39 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Accommodations?
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there a fact sheet out there that reveals what percentage of a
>>> university's student body is disabled?
>>>
>>> Haben
>>>
>>> James Pepper wrote:
>>>> They probably do that, I know that one of thee Coolge entrance exams
> does
>>>> it, but I am not sure if it is the SAT or the ACT but they inform the
>>>> schools eactly which devices were used to take the test.  I think it is
>>> both
>>>> of them.  This is how colleges can know who is disabled and who is not
>>>> without actually asking the student if they are disabled or not.  It is
> a
>>>> great way to get around the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.
>>>> And this is good for colleges that do not have a high percentage of
>>> students
>>>> who are disabled because they will most certainly accept you once they
>>>> realize you are disabled, to satisfy their requirements to not be
>>> considered
>>>> discriminatory.  But your chances of graduating from that situation
>>>> is not
>>>> as good as a college that accepts the disabled on a regular basis.  Of
>>>> course state schools are more likely to handle the disabled with
> respect,
>>>> since they are more in tune with the consequences of discriminiation.
>>>> But
>>>> if you are competing with a lot of other disabled students to get into 
>>>> a
>>>> college that is a good college for the blind, then you will probably be
>>>> judged on your abilities based on being disabled and not the general
>>>> population.  Because they will probably only admit a certain amount of
>>>> students who are disabled as the disabled tend to cost the university a
>>> lot
>>>> more than non disabled.
>>>>
>>>> Since most people do not know they are doing this type of profiling,
> they
>>>> have gotten away with it since 1973.
>>>>
>>>> You all are lawyers, can you stop this nonsense because colleges accept
>>> the
>>>> blind and disabled in proportion to their numbers in the population, 
>>>> but
>>>> they don't graduate them in any proportion to the numbers they accept.
>>>>
>>>> James Pepper
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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