[blindlaw] Angie, I have a scanner question for you

Sat Sep 12 17:14:19 UTC 2009

Hello Angie, I'd like to ask you some questions about your duplex scanner. 
Would you contact me off list at

benkarpilow at gmail.com

Thanks, Ben

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Textbooks for disabled, Particularly College 
Students

Hi Bill,

Do you have access to a duplex scanner that can scan both sides of the page
at once? I found this to be absolutely essential during law school,
particularly where supplemental materials are concerned. We *ought* to have
immediate access to materials; we don't. If you don't have a scanner, maybe
your school will extend your financial aid package to help you purchase one.
It really does simplify things, and it's something you'd be able to use on
the job.

My scanner and OCR package could process more than 100 pages in 7 minutes,
so it saved me lots and lots of time. If you want more specific info, feel
free to write off-list.

Angie

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Bill Spiry
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 7:59 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Textbooks for disabled, Particularly College
Students

I agree fully. I've just finished my second week of law school and I'm still
in the chase with many supplemental materials that every one of my fellow
1Ls simply had to drop by the law school café and by. The time I've
continued to have to spend coordinating access to the assignments all of my
peers can simply pull out of their back pack and read for 15 minutes over a
cup of coffee is time I would sorely prefer spending on my studies. Had the
university not assisted in coordinating obtaining my text books
electronically, well suffice it to say that this would have been a
considerably more challenging entrance. Its tricky enough drinking from a
fire hose when you've also got to make sure the hydrant stays open so the
flow doesn't unexpectedly dry up.
I've learned there is nothing noble or heroic about toughing it out with the
odds already against you, particularly when the technology and potential
exists to level the playing field. This isn't about learning how to do
things the hard way, it's about learning the law, or whatever discipline one
studies, on a equal footing with our peers. We face plenty of hurdles every
day that we do need to do differently and that take more effort. When there
is a way to level the field it ought to be leveled.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:06 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Textbooks for disabled, Particularly College
Students

Hello Chhuck,

Actually, ,sighted students *do* have people who obtain their books for
them. All they have to do is go to the book store and pay the proper fee.
They don't have to convince publishers or authors that they deserve a
"special" copy of the book. The university obtains them as a matter of
course. Shouldn't it be the same for me? Shouldn't I be able to go to the
book store, buy a book, and then read it?

It's not acceptable for a student to wait weeks and weeks to get books when
the technology exists that would enable the student to create her own books
in a matter of hours. But it's impractical to ask students to deal with
publishers in most situations, simply because publishers are not going to
deal directly with students. They want assurances that their files are not
going to be distributed indiscriminantly.

To be clear, I'm a strong proponent of OCR technology. I don't know how I
would have gotten through law school without the ability to scan my own
books in a brief amount of time. But when I could get electronic copies from
the publishers, I did so. If the university could have produced an etext
copy of every book as soon as I bought it (or nearly so), I would have
gladly let them do it. I don't think that would have made me less
independent. The problem is, the system is broken. I refused to be weeks
behind in my reading because of the inability of the school and the
publishers to meet my needs for etexts.

My ability to have nearly instant access to any book is liberating. I also
like having some control over the process by which I obtain the books.
During school, I knew that if I wanted to read a supplemental text, I could
do so without depending on overworked DSS staff and slow publishers. But I
still believe, on some level, that this shouldn't be the way it is.

Angie

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:32 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Textbooks for disabled, Particularly College
Students

Actually, you further illustrate my point in that it really doesn't make any

difference whether the student learns to take responsibility working with
the publishers electronically or otherwise. The colleges shouldn't be doing
this for students as it fosters dependence and enables them. Sighted
students don't have anyone obtaining their materials for them and neither
should blind students. Officially, I would hope that NFB doesn't support
these processes.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Textbooks for disabled, Particularly College
Students

>I can see your point to an extent, Chuck.  While I agree for the need to
> lead an independent life through education into the workforce, the fact of
> the matter is that we are in a different time.  So many things are
> electronically based, whether it be for the disabled or not.  As we all
> know
> in the legal field, in the past few years there has been a considerable
> push
> to go paperless in the court system and firms.
>
> I don't believe that making this service available will necessarily make
> an
> individual less independent.  I think this service is catching up to the
> way
> society as a whole has gone...electronic.  When I studied to become a
> paralegal, I learned to shepherdize with books.  That is now really almost
> non-existent.  I'm thankful for being able to do that electronically now
> because of my loss of sight.
>
> Sometimes I think I may think a bit differently than those who have had
> vision impairments for most of their lives because I still view things
> predominately from a sighted person's perspective.
>
> But where you are correct is that individuals, disabled or not, should be
> able to also use the old way in case the electronic way is unavailable.
> But, as we know, we all adapt to what is necessary.
>
> It was great reading your comments on this.
>
> William
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 12:43 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Textbooks for disabled, Particularly College
> Students
>
> While this sounds good on the surface a drawback to this is that disabled
> students are losing their choices to be independent by having to register
> as
>
> being disabled and allowing the college to assume responsibility for
> producing and locating textbooks. I realize I'm dating myself here but I
> learned many valuable skills by having to procure and arrangement for use
> of
>
> text materials in an available format. These skills included the
> supervision
>
> of personnel (readers) a valuable skill transferable to the real work of
> employment where supervision of staff is necessary, procuring materials in

> a
>
> timely manner a transferable skill of meeting deadlines and insuring that
> materials would be available. and an ability to be self-reliant learning
> to
> find and create available resources and development of increased problem
> solving skills. Unfortunately, too many disabled students blind or
> otherwise
>
> lack these skills today and as a result are ill equipped to adequately
> compete in the real world of employment when programs such disabled
> services
>
> do not exist in the real world. In many cases the development and use of
> such systems prevent students from addressing individual needs with
> faculty
> members as they would have to do when they are on their own in an
> employment
>
> setting.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 7:42 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Textbooks for disabled, Particularly College Students
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From
>>>
>
<http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/08/28/access>http://www.insidehighe
> red.com/news/2009/08/28/access
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Textbooks for the Disabled
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>August 28, 2009
>>>
>>>The Association of American Publishers and the University of Georgia this
>>>week unveiled an electronic database aimed at making it easier for blind,
>>>dyslexic and otherwise impaired college students to get specialized
>>>textbooks in time for classes.
>>>
>>>The database, called <http://www.accesstext.org/>AccessText, is designed
>>>to centralize the process by which electronic versions of textbooks are
>>>requested by colleges and supplied by publishers. Experts say it will
>>>allow disabled students to get their textbooks more efficiently, help
>>>colleges save money and avoid lawsuits, and protect publishers'
>>>copyrights.
>>>
>>>For students whose disabilities prevent them from using traditional
>>>texts,
>
>>>the normally straightforward task of acquiring books for their courses
>>>can
>
>>>be tedious and frustrating. Federal law requires that colleges and
>>>universities provide disabled students equal access to educational
>>>materials, but this is often easier said than done. College officials
>>>have
>
>>>to track down and contact the publisher of every textbook that each of
>>>its
>
>>>disabled students buys and request an electronic copy. If such a copy
>>>exists -- the likelihood shrinks the older the book and the smaller the
>>>publisher -- college officials still have to convert the file to a format
>>>that can be read by whatever reading aid the student uses. If not, the
>>>college has to wait, sometimes weeks, to obtain permission to scan the
>>>book and create its own electronic version.
>>>
>>>Once a college has an electronic copy, converting to a readable format
>>>can
>
>>>be another complex process, says Sean Keegan, associate director of
>>>assistive technology at Stanford University. Math and science texts often
>>>arrive as scanned pages, and cannot always be easily read by the
>>>character-recognition software the university uses to turn them into
>>>standard electronic files, Keegan says. "That can take a longer amount of
>>>time to process that material internally and turn it around and give that
>>>to the student efficiently," he says.
>>>
>>>Meanwhile, delays in the process can make it impossible for disabled
>>>students to prepare for and participate in classes. "Students need to
>>>have
>
>>>a book in time so they can do the assigned reading and study for tests
>>>and
>
>>>papers," says Gaeir Dietrich, interim director of high-tech training for
>>>the California Community Colleges system. "So if the book doesn't come
>>>until the term has been in session for three or four weeks, that puts
>>>that
>
>>>student very far behind." Some students have sued colleges over such
>>>delays, she says.
>>>
>>>AccessText aims to mitigate these woes by streamlining the request and
>>>delivery process, says Ed McCoyd, executive director for accessibility
>>>affairs at AAP.
>>>
>>>"There's a lot of transactional friction taking place currently," says
>>>McCoyd. "What AccessText is trying to do is take some of that out of the
>>>transaction by having parties agree to streamlined rules up front."
>>>
>>>Having colleges submit requests using the AccessText portal should
>>>eliminate the need for the publishers to require endless paperwork with
>>>each request to protect its copyrights, McCoyd says. Under the system,
>>>the
>
>>>copyright protection agreements can be handled once, during registration,
>>>and the requester's bona fides can be verified by a log-in.
>>>
>>>Currently, colleges that get tired of waiting for publishers to process
>>>the paperwork and procure an electronic copy of a text sometimes just
>>>scan
>
>>>a text themselves to try to satisfy the needs of disabled students in a
>>>timely fashion, says Dietrich.
>>>
>>>AccessText is also set up to eliminate the need for different colleges to
>>>convert the same text to a readable format once it is acquired. Currently
>>>"numerous schools could be doing the exact same thing, converting the
>>>same
>
>>>text," says Bruce Hildebrand, executive director for higher education at
>>>the publishers' association. Under the new system, "if one school has
>>>already spent the time and the money to convert a file to a format, they
>>>could advise the AccessText network, which could then make the info
>>>available that it was still available in that format, and that school
>>>could share it with another school" -- thereby sparing those colleges the
>>>time and resources it would have used to convert the file themselves, he
>>>says.
>>>
>>>Eight major publishing houses paid a total of just under $1 million to
>>>develop the AccessText network and maintain it through its beta phase,
>>>which will end next July. From then on, it will sustain itself by billing
>>>member colleges between $375 and $500 annually, depending on size.
>>>
>>>Dietrich notes that community colleges might not benefit from the
>>>AccessText network as much as other institutions, since "we have a lot
>>>more vocational classes and basic-skills classes, and a lot of those
>>>books
>
>>>don't come through those big publishers, they come through specialized
>>>publishers," she says. "It doesn't solve that part of the problem for
>>>us."
>>>
>>>The network includes 92 percent of all college textbook publishers and is
>>>recruiting even more, according to AAP officials.
>>
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