From timandvickie at hotmail.com Sun Aug 1 22:03:54 2010 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 22:03:54 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK so, I have a consumer of mine who has had an issue with his electric company in the last week. They cut off his power and told him he owed money for a deposit he owed. Anways, he called and tried to talk to them about it. They told him they had sent him a bill and a notice regarding this. He says he enver recieved the notice, but that is beside the point. He told them he could not read the bill he recieved because he is blind. The customer service told him that it wasnt their problem because they are not requierd to make the bill accessible to him. Is this true? I thought SSA had just lost a case requiring them to start making their mailings accessible. As it turned out, I read his bill to him and it didn't say on the bill he owed the additional part of the deposit anyway, but even if it did he had no way of knowing it did. Tim From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 22:33:43 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 18:33:43 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills References: Message-ID: That is correct, SSA did loose a case, and they are required to make statements from SSA accessible to blind beneficiaries. However, we're dealing with this man's electric company! I'm not an atturney, Mabiee one of the lawyers on this list assist you in helping this man remidy the situation! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 6:03 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills > > OK so, I have a consumer of mine who has had an issue with his electric > company in the last week. They cut off his power and told him he owed > money for a deposit he owed. Anways, he called and tried to talk to them > about it. They told him they had sent him a bill and a notice regarding > this. He says he enver recieved the notice, but that is beside the point. > He told them he could not read the bill he recieved because he is blind. > The customer service told him that it wasnt their problem because they are > not requierd to make the bill accessible to him. Is this true? I thought > SSA had just lost a case requiring them to start making their mailings > accessible. As it turned out, I read his bill to him and it didn't say on > the bill he owed the additional part of the deposit anyway, but even if it > did he had no way of knowing it did. > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From k7uij at panix.com Mon Aug 2 01:27:13 2010 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 18:27:13 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills References: Message-ID: <29D0EF90D1924E13B32C763FFEBF4734@owner1e06aeb63> ADA probably requires that bills be in accesible form if this is "readily achievable". What that means is up for debate. However, I wonder if the guy is as helpless as he claims as he could have picked up the phone and ascertained his bill status (my utility company offers this service to anyone). Sometimes I think we tend to feel that we can ditch the necessity of exercising a bit of inteligence when it comes to dealing with the world and expect stuff to be handed to us on a platter because we are blind and can't handle the "normal" way of doing things. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 3:03 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills > > OK so, I have a consumer of mine who has had an issue with his electric > company in the last week. They cut off his power and told him he owed > money for a deposit he owed. Anways, he called and tried to talk to them > about it. They told him they had sent him a bill and a notice regarding > this. He says he enver recieved the notice, but that is beside the point. > He told them he could not read the bill he recieved because he is blind. > The customer service told him that it wasnt their problem because they are > not requierd to make the bill accessible to him. Is this true? I thought > SSA had just lost a case requiring them to start making their mailings > accessible. As it turned out, I read his bill to him and it didn't say on > the bill he owed the additional part of the deposit anyway, but even if it > did he had no way of knowing it did. > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 02:07:30 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 21:07:30 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <098001cb31e7$77e90f40$67bb2dc0$@com> Hey Tim. That light company sounds familiar. They give people the blues when they can see. If the guy is calling and they are telling him something different, then I think he needs to have some type of scanning programming so he can read his mail. He should be able to call and listen to an automated system I suppose as well. The case with the social security administration doesn't have an effect on what the utility companies do as the arm of the decision doesn't reach down. I could be wrong. Will -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tim Shaw Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 5:04 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills OK so, I have a consumer of mine who has had an issue with his electric company in the last week. They cut off his power and told him he owed money for a deposit he owed. Anways, he called and tried to talk to them about it. They told him they had sent him a bill and a notice regarding this. He says he enver recieved the notice, but that is beside the point. He told them he could not read the bill he recieved because he is blind. The customer service told him that it wasnt their problem because they are not requierd to make the bill accessible to him. Is this true? I thought SSA had just lost a case requiring them to start making their mailings accessible. As it turned out, I read his bill to him and it didn't say on the bill he owed the additional part of the deposit anyway, but even if it did he had no way of knowing it did. Tim _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 2 06:30:04 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 23:30:04 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] question In-Reply-To: References: <73D96AF4BC8F40EA9520E782101B7CE0@spike> Message-ID: The fact that you were 17 at the time was the key factor that started the process. In most states competency issues need to be reviewed by a court periodically. There are attorneys that specialize in these issues that work in the areas of competency and mental health law. I am in California but I may be able to find you some resources to try pursuing. You would need to demonstrate that you are now capable of handling your affairs and most likely need to have a new psychiatric evaluation. Feel free to contact me off list as needed. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 p Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 11:44 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question >I don't know how Florida did it, but they declared me incompetent > because I got involved with some old guy from a rehab center in > Daytona Beach. I was seventeen and my parents said I was "obsessed" > with various things including a young man in high school. Well, my > parents prevented me from having real hobbies and fascinations. > Because of this, I can't marry, can't live anywhere I want legally, and so > on. > Beth > > On 7/31/10, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >> I doubt that it would hold up in any state. Incompetence refers generally >> to >> a person who is mentally ill or severely disabled enough where they are >> not >> comprehending or able to take care of their lives. In many states a >> person >> would have to be placed on conservatorship and there are specific >> requirements today regarding conservatorships such as the due process >> that >> is required for a potential conservatee to go through such as the >> appointment of an attornehy and a hearing. At least that is how it is >> here >> in California and it was pretty much the same when I lived in Michigan. >> chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 5:49 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] question >> >> >>>I have a question. Can a person be declared incompetent just because they >>>are blind? >>> RJ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 09:46:26 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 05:46:26 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] question References: <73D96AF4BC8F40EA9520E782101B7CE0@spike> Message-ID: Beth, here are the steps needed as outlined in florida law. 744.331 Procedures to determine incapacity.-- (1) NOTICE OF PETITION TO DETERMINE INCAPACITY.--Notice of the filing of a petition to determine incapacity and a petition for the appointment of a guardian if any and copies of the petitions must be served on and read to the alleged incapacitated person. The notice and copies of the petitions must also be given to the attorney for the alleged incapacitated person, and served upon all next of kin identified in the petition. The notice must state the time and place of the hearing to inquire into the capacity of the alleged incapacitated person and that an attorney has been appointed to represent the person and that, if she or he is determined to be incapable of exercising certain rights, a guardian will be appointed to exercise those rights on her or his behalf. (2) ATTORNEY FOR THE ALLEGED INCAPACITATED PERSON.-- (a) When a court appoints an attorney for an alleged incapacitated person, the court must appoint the office of criminal conflict and civil regional counsel or a private attorney as prescribed in s. 27.511(6). A private attorney must be one who is included in the attorney registry compiled pursuant to s. 27.40. Appointments of private attorneys must be made on a rotating basis, taking into consideration conflicts arising under this chapter. (b) The court shall appoint an attorney for each person alleged to be incapacitated in all cases involving a petition for adjudication of incapacity. The alleged incapacitated person may substitute her or his own attorney for the attorney appointed by the court. (c) Any attorney representing an alleged incapacitated person may not serve as guardian of the alleged incapacitated person or as counsel for the guardian of the alleged incapacitated person or the petitioner. (d) Effective January 1, 2007, an attorney seeking to be appointed by a court for incapacity and guardianship proceedings must have completed a minimum of 8 hours of education in guardianship. A court may waive the initial training requirement for an attorney who has served as a court-appointed attorney in incapacity proceedings or as an attorney of record for guardians for not less than 3 years. The education requirement of this paragraph does not apply to the office of criminal conflict and civil regional counsel until July 1, 2008. (3) EXAMINING COMMITTEE.-- (a) Within 5 days after a petition for determination of incapacity has been filed, the court shall appoint an examining committee consisting of three members. One member must be a psychiatrist or other physician. The remaining members must be either a psychologist, gerontologist, another psychiatrist, or other physician, a registered nurse, nurse practitioner, licensed social worker, a person with an advanced degree in gerontology from an accredited institution of higher education, or other person who by knowledge, skill, experience, training, or education may, in the court's discretion, advise the court in the form of an expert opinion. One of three members of the committee must have knowledge of the type of incapacity alleged in the petition. Unless good cause is shown, the attending or family physician may not be appointed to the committee. If the attending or family physician is available for consultation, the committee must consult with the physician. Members of the examining committee may not be related to or associated with one another, with the petitioner, with counsel for the petitioner or the proposed guardian, or with the person alleged to be totally or partially incapacitated. A member may not be employed by any private or governmental agency that has custody of, or furnishes, services or subsidies, directly or indirectly, to the person or the family of the person alleged to be incapacitated or for whom a guardianship is sought. A petitioner may not serve as a member of the examining committee. Members of the examining committee must be able to communicate, either directly or through an interpreter, in the language that the alleged incapacitated person speaks or to communicate in a medium understandable to the alleged incapacitated person if she or he is able to communicate. The clerk of the court shall send notice of the appointment to each person appointed no later than 3 days after the court's appointment. (b) A person who has been appointed to serve as a member of an examining committee to examine an alleged incapacitated person may not thereafter be appointed as a guardian for the person who was the subject of the examination. (c) Each person appointed to an examining committee must file an affidavit with the court stating that he or she has completed the required courses or will do so no later than 4 months after his or her initial appointment. Each year, the chief judge of the circuit must prepare a list of persons qualified to be members of an examining committee. (d) A member of an examining committee must complete a minimum of 4 hours of initial training. The person must complete 2 hours of continuing education during each 2-year period after the initial training. The initial training and continuing education program must be developed under the supervision of the Statewide Public Guardianship Office, in consultation with the Florida Conference of Circuit Court Judges; the Elder Law and the Real Property, Probate and Trust Law sections of The Florida Bar; the Florida State Guardianship Association; and the Florida Guardianship Foundation. The court may waive the initial training requirement for a person who has served for not less than 5 years on examining committees. If a person wishes to obtain his or her continuing education on the Internet or by watching a video course, the person must first obtain the approval of the chief judge before taking an Internet or video course. (e) Each member of the examining committee shall examine the person. Each examining committee member must determine the alleged incapacitated person's ability to exercise those rights specified in s. 744.3215. In addition to the examination, each examining committee member must have access to, and may consider, previous examinations of the person, including, but not limited to, habilitation plans, school records, and psychological and psychosocial reports voluntarily offered for use by the alleged incapacitated person. Each member of the examining committee must submit a report within 15 days after appointment. (f) The examination of the alleged incapacitated person must include a comprehensive examination, a report of which shall be filed by each examining committee member as part of his or her written report. The comprehensive examination report should be an essential element, but not necessarily the only element, used in making a capacity and guardianship decision. The comprehensive examination must include, if indicated: 1. A physical examination; 2. A mental health examination; and 3. A functional assessment. If any of these three aspects of the examination is not indicated or cannot be accomplished for any reason, the written report must explain the reasons for its omission. (g) Each committee member's written report must include: 1. To the extent possible, a diagnosis, prognosis, and recommended course of treatment. 2. An evaluation of the alleged incapacitated person's ability to retain her or his rights, including, without limitation, the rights to marry; vote; contract; manage or dispose of property; have a driver's license; determine her or his residence; consent to medical treatment; and make decisions affecting her or his social environment. 3. The results of the comprehensive examination and the committee member's assessment of information provided by the attending or family physician, if any. 4. A description of any matters with respect to which the person lacks the capacity to exercise rights, the extent of that incapacity, and the factual basis for the determination that the person lacks that capacity. 5. The names of all persons present during the time the committee member conducted his or her examination. If a person other than the person who is the subject of the examination supplies answers posed to the alleged incapacitated person, the report must include the response and the name of the person supplying the answer. 6. The signature of the committee member and the date and time the member conducted his or her examination. (h) A copy of each committee member's report must be served on the petitioner and on the attorney for the alleged incapacitated person within 3 days after the report is filed and at least 5 days before the hearing on the petition. (4) DISMISSAL OF PETITION.--If a majority of the examining committee members conclude that the alleged incapacitated person is not incapacitated in any respect, the court shall dismiss the petition. (5) ADJUDICATORY HEARING.-- (a) Upon appointment of the examining committee, the court shall set the date upon which the petition will be heard. The date for the adjudicatory hearing must be set no more than 14 days after the filing of the reports of the examining committee members, unless good cause is shown. The adjudicatory hearing must be conducted at the time and place specified in the notice of hearing and in a manner consistent with due process. (b) The alleged incapacitated person must be present at the adjudicatory hearing, unless waived by the alleged incapacitated person or the person's attorney or unless good cause can be shown for her or his absence. Determination of good cause rests in the sound discretion of the court. (c) In the adjudicatory hearing on a petition alleging incapacity, the partial or total incapacity of the person must be established by clear and convincing evidence. (6) ORDER DETERMINING INCAPACITY.--If, after making findings of fact on the basis of clear and convincing evidence, the court finds that a person is incapacitated with respect to the exercise of a particular right, or all rights, the court shall enter a written order determining such incapacity. A person is determined to be incapacitated only with respect to those rights specified in the order. (a) The court shall make the following findings: 1. The exact nature and scope of the person's incapacities; 2. The exact areas in which the person lacks capacity to make informed decisions about care and treatment services or to meet the essential requirements for her or his physical or mental health or safety; 3. The specific legal disabilities to which the person is subject; and 4. The specific rights that the person is incapable of exercising. (b) When an order determines that a person is incapable of exercising delegable rights, the court must consider and find whether there is an alternative to guardianship that will sufficiently address the problems of the incapacitated person. A guardian must be appointed to exercise the incapacitated person's delegable rights unless the court finds there is an alternative. A guardian may not be appointed if the court finds there is an alternative to guardianship which will sufficiently address the problems of the incapacitated person. (c) In determining that a person is totally incapacitated, the order must contain findings of fact demonstrating that the individual is totally without capacity to care for herself or himself or her or his property. (d) An order adjudicating a person to be incapacitated constitutes proof of such incapacity until further order of the court. (e) After the order determining that the person is incapacitated has been filed with the clerk, it must be served on the incapacitated person. The person is deemed incapacitated only to the extent of the findings of the court. The filing of the order is notice of the incapacity. An incapacitated person retains all rights not specifically removed by the court. (f) Upon the filing of a verified statement by an interested person stating: 1. That he or she has a good faith belief that the alleged incapacitated person's trust, trust amendment, or durable power of attorney is invalid; and 2. A reasonable factual basis for that belief, the trust, trust amendment, or durable power of attorney shall not be deemed to be an alternative to the appointment of a guardian. The appointment of a guardian does not limit the court's power to determine that certain authority granted by a durable power of attorney is to remain exercisable by the attorney in fact. (7) FEES.-- (a) The examining committee and any attorney appointed under subsection (2) are entitled to reasonable fees to be determined by the court. (b) The fees awarded under paragraph (a) shall be paid by the guardian from the property of the ward or, if the ward is indigent, by the state. The state shall have a creditor's claim against the guardianship property for any amounts paid under this section. The state may file its claim within 90 days after the entry of an order awarding attorney ad litem fees. If the state does not file its claim within the 90-day period, the state is thereafter barred from asserting the claim. Upon petition by the state for payment of the claim, the court shall enter an order authorizing immediate payment out of the property of the ward. The state shall keep a record of the payments. (c) If the petition is dismissed, costs and attorney's fees of the proceeding may be assessed against the petitioner if the court finds the petition to have been filed in bad faith. History.--ss. 9, 26, ch. 75-222; s. 4, ch. 77-328; s. 1, ch. 78-342; s. 6, ch. 79-221; s. 35, ch. 89-96; s. 20, ch. 90-271; s. 4, ch. 91-303; s. 5, ch. 91-306; s. 7, ch. 96-354; s. 1783, ch. 97-102; s. 76, ch. 2004-265; s. 4, ch. 2006-77; s. 11, ch. 2006-178; s. 44, ch. 2006-217; s. 28, ch. 2007-62. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:30 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question > The fact that you were 17 at the time was the key factor that started the > process. In most states competency issues need to be reviewed by a court > periodically. There are attorneys that specialize in these issues that > work in the areas of competency and mental health law. I am in California > but I may be able to find you some resources to try pursuing. You would > need to demonstrate that you are now capable of handling your affairs and > most likely need to have a new psychiatric evaluation. Feel free to > contact me off list as needed. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 p Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 11:44 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question > > >>I don't know how Florida did it, but they declared me incompetent >> because I got involved with some old guy from a rehab center in >> Daytona Beach. I was seventeen and my parents said I was "obsessed" >> with various things including a young man in high school. Well, my >> parents prevented me from having real hobbies and fascinations. >> Because of this, I can't marry, can't live anywhere I want legally, and >> so on. >> Beth >> >> On 7/31/10, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >>> I doubt that it would hold up in any state. Incompetence refers >>> generally to >>> a person who is mentally ill or severely disabled enough where they are >>> not >>> comprehending or able to take care of their lives. In many states a >>> person >>> would have to be placed on conservatorship and there are specific >>> requirements today regarding conservatorships such as the due process >>> that >>> is required for a potential conservatee to go through such as the >>> appointment of an attornehy and a hearing. At least that is how it is >>> here >>> in California and it was pretty much the same when I lived in Michigan. >>> chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >>> 1237 P Street >>> Fresno ca 93721 >>> 559-266-9237 >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 5:49 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] question >>> >>> >>>>I have a question. Can a person be declared incompetent just because >>>>they >>>>are blind? >>>> RJ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: transparent_spacer_1X1.gif Type: image/gif Size: 43 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: main_footer_01.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1867 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: main_footer_03.gif Type: image/gif Size: 385 bytes Desc: not available URL: From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 11:33:28 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 05:33:28 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] question In-Reply-To: References: <73D96AF4BC8F40EA9520E782101B7CE0@spike> Message-ID: NOwhere does it say the committee has to know about disability and blindness issues specifically, which gives rise to some problems. Mr. Krugman, feel free to contact me off list at my e-mail address, given below, and I'd love to have some resources. Perhaps the ACLU and NFB can work hand in hand to help me pursue this because I want to marry, consent to medical treatment, and so on. I mean, right now I'm in a relationship right now with another person whose name I will not give for security reasons, and he's sweet. But he has shown concerns about my right to marry and my abilities because I lack adequate counseling and therapy. Why? Because an insurance company won't let me see the counselor on site at CCB. So that's just it. RJ, I said what I said about Florida law and guardianship proceedings. I think they should add that blindness should not affect the committee's decision on a guardian or incapacitation of the alleged incapacitated person. Blindness is a physical incapacity, not a mental one. Beth Taurasi thebluesisloose at gmail.com 321-986-7665 On 8/2/10, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Beth, here are the steps needed as outlined in florida law. > 744.331 Procedures to determine incapacity.-- > > (1) NOTICE OF PETITION TO DETERMINE > INCAPACITY.--Notice of the filing of a petition to determine incapacity and > a petition for the appointment of a guardian if any and copies of the > petitions must be served on and read to the alleged incapacitated person. > The notice and copies of the petitions must also be given to the attorney > for the alleged incapacitated person, and served upon all next of kin > identified in the petition. The notice must state the time and place of the > hearing to inquire into the capacity of the alleged incapacitated person and > that an attorney has been appointed to represent the person and that, if she > or he is determined to be incapable of exercising certain rights, a guardian > will be appointed to exercise those rights on her or his behalf. > > (2) ATTORNEY FOR THE ALLEGED INCAPACITATED > PERSON.-- > > (a) When a court appoints an attorney for an > alleged incapacitated person, the court must appoint the office of criminal > conflict and civil regional counsel or a private attorney as prescribed in > s. 27.511(6). A private attorney must be one who is included in the attorney > registry compiled pursuant to s. 27.40. Appointments of private attorneys > must be made on a rotating basis, taking into consideration conflicts > arising under this chapter. > > (b) The court shall appoint an attorney for each > person alleged to be incapacitated in all cases involving a petition for > adjudication of incapacity. The alleged incapacitated person may substitute > her or his own attorney for the attorney appointed by the court. > > (c) Any attorney representing an alleged > incapacitated person may not serve as guardian of the alleged incapacitated > person or as counsel for the guardian of the alleged incapacitated person or > the petitioner. > > (d) Effective January 1, 2007, an attorney seeking > to be appointed by a court for incapacity and guardianship proceedings must > have completed a minimum of 8 hours of education in guardianship. A court > may waive the initial training requirement for an attorney who has served as > a court-appointed attorney in incapacity proceedings or as an attorney of > record for guardians for not less than 3 years. The education requirement of > this paragraph does not apply to the office of criminal conflict and civil > regional counsel until July 1, 2008. > > (3) EXAMINING COMMITTEE.-- > > (a) Within 5 days after a petition for > determination of incapacity has been filed, the court shall appoint an > examining committee consisting of three members. One member must be a > psychiatrist or other physician. The remaining members must be either a > psychologist, gerontologist, another psychiatrist, or other physician, a > registered nurse, nurse practitioner, licensed social worker, a person with > an advanced degree in gerontology from an accredited institution of higher > education, or other person who by knowledge, skill, experience, training, or > education may, in the court's discretion, advise the court in the form of an > expert opinion. One of three members of the committee must have knowledge of > the type of incapacity alleged in the petition. Unless good cause is shown, > the attending or family physician may not be appointed to the committee. If > the attending or family physician is available for consultation, the > committee must consult with the physician. Members of the examining > committee may not be related to or associated with one another, with the > petitioner, with counsel for the petitioner or the proposed guardian, or > with the person alleged to be totally or partially incapacitated. A member > may not be employed by any private or governmental agency that has custody > of, or furnishes, services or subsidies, directly or indirectly, to the > person or the family of the person alleged to be incapacitated or for whom a > guardianship is sought. A petitioner may not serve as a member of the > examining committee. Members of the examining committee must be able to > communicate, either directly or through an interpreter, in the language that > the alleged incapacitated person speaks or to communicate in a medium > understandable to the alleged incapacitated person if she or he is able to > communicate. The clerk of the court shall send notice of the appointment to > each person appointed no later than 3 days after the court's appointment. > > (b) A person who has been appointed to serve as a > member of an examining committee to examine an alleged incapacitated person > may not thereafter be appointed as a guardian for the person who was the > subject of the examination. > > (c) Each person appointed to an examining committee > must file an affidavit with the court stating that he or she has completed > the required courses or will do so no later than 4 months after his or her > initial appointment. Each year, the chief judge of the circuit must prepare > a list of persons qualified to be members of an examining committee. > > (d) A member of an examining committee must > complete a minimum of 4 hours of initial training. The person must complete > 2 hours of continuing education during each 2-year period after the initial > training. The initial training and continuing education program must be > developed under the supervision of the Statewide Public Guardianship Office, > in consultation with the Florida Conference of Circuit Court Judges; the > Elder Law and the Real Property, Probate and Trust Law sections of The > Florida Bar; the Florida State Guardianship Association; and the Florida > Guardianship Foundation. The court may waive the initial training > requirement for a person who has served for not less than 5 years on > examining committees. If a person wishes to obtain his or her continuing > education on the Internet or by watching a video course, the person must > first obtain the approval of the chief judge before taking an Internet or > video course. > > (e) Each member of the examining committee shall > examine the person. Each examining committee member must determine the > alleged incapacitated person's ability to exercise those rights specified in > s. 744.3215. In addition to the examination, each examining committee member > must have access to, and may consider, previous examinations of the person, > including, but not limited to, habilitation plans, school records, and > psychological and psychosocial reports voluntarily offered for use by the > alleged incapacitated person. Each member of the examining committee must > submit a report within 15 days after appointment. > > (f) The examination of the alleged incapacitated > person must include a comprehensive examination, a report of which shall be > filed by each examining committee member as part of his or her written > report. The comprehensive examination report should be an essential element, > but not necessarily the only element, used in making a capacity and > guardianship decision. The comprehensive examination must include, if > indicated: > > 1. A physical examination; > > 2. A mental health examination; and > > 3. A functional assessment. > > If any of these three aspects of the examination is > not indicated or cannot be accomplished for any reason, the written report > must explain the reasons for its omission. > > (g) Each committee member's written report must > include: > > 1. To the extent possible, a diagnosis, prognosis, > and recommended course of treatment. > > 2. An evaluation of the alleged incapacitated > person's ability to retain her or his rights, including, without limitation, > the rights to marry; vote; contract; manage or dispose of property; have a > driver's license; determine her or his residence; consent to medical > treatment; and make decisions affecting her or his social environment. > > 3. The results of the comprehensive examination and > the committee member's assessment of information provided by the attending > or family physician, if any. > > 4. A description of any matters with respect to > which the person lacks the capacity to exercise rights, the extent of that > incapacity, and the factual basis for the determination that the person > lacks that capacity. > > 5. The names of all persons present during the time > the committee member conducted his or her examination. If a person other > than the person who is the subject of the examination supplies answers posed > to the alleged incapacitated person, the report must include the response > and the name of the person supplying the answer. > > 6. The signature of the committee member and the > date and time the member conducted his or her examination. > > (h) A copy of each committee member's report must > be served on the petitioner and on the attorney for the alleged > incapacitated person within 3 days after the report is filed and at least 5 > days before the hearing on the petition. > > (4) DISMISSAL OF PETITION.--If a majority of the > examining committee members conclude that the alleged incapacitated person > is not incapacitated in any respect, the court shall dismiss the petition. > > (5) ADJUDICATORY HEARING.-- > > (a) Upon appointment of the examining committee, > the court shall set the date upon which the petition will be heard. The date > for the adjudicatory hearing must be set no more than 14 days after the > filing of the reports of the examining committee members, unless good cause > is shown. The adjudicatory hearing must be conducted at the time and place > specified in the notice of hearing and in a manner consistent with due > process. > > (b) The alleged incapacitated person must be > present at the adjudicatory hearing, unless waived by the alleged > incapacitated person or the person's attorney or unless good cause can be > shown for her or his absence. Determination of good cause rests in the sound > discretion of the court. > > (c) In the adjudicatory hearing on a petition > alleging incapacity, the partial or total incapacity of the person must be > established by clear and convincing evidence. > > (6) ORDER DETERMINING INCAPACITY.--If, after making > findings of fact on the basis of clear and convincing evidence, the court > finds that a person is incapacitated with respect to the exercise of a > particular right, or all rights, the court shall enter a written order > determining such incapacity. A person is determined to be incapacitated only > with respect to those rights specified in the order. > > (a) The court shall make the following findings: > > 1. The exact nature and scope of the person's > incapacities; > > 2. The exact areas in which the person lacks > capacity to make informed decisions about care and treatment services or to > meet the essential requirements for her or his physical or mental health or > safety; > > 3. The specific legal disabilities to which the > person is subject; and > > 4. The specific rights that the person is incapable > of exercising. > > (b) When an order determines that a person is > incapable of exercising delegable rights, the court must consider and find > whether there is an alternative to guardianship that will sufficiently > address the problems of the incapacitated person. A guardian must be > appointed to exercise the incapacitated person's delegable rights unless the > court finds there is an alternative. A guardian may not be appointed if the > court finds there is an alternative to guardianship which will sufficiently > address the problems of the incapacitated person. > > (c) In determining that a person is totally > incapacitated, the order must contain findings of fact demonstrating that > the individual is totally without capacity to care for herself or himself or > her or his property. > > (d) An order adjudicating a person to be > incapacitated constitutes proof of such incapacity until further order of > the court. > > (e) After the order determining that the person is > incapacitated has been filed with the clerk, it must be served on the > incapacitated person. The person is deemed incapacitated only to the extent > of the findings of the court. The filing of the order is notice of the > incapacity. An incapacitated person retains all rights not specifically > removed by the court. > > (f) Upon the filing of a verified statement by an > interested person stating: > > 1. That he or she has a good faith belief that the > alleged incapacitated person's trust, trust amendment, or durable power of > attorney is invalid; and > > 2. A reasonable factual basis for that belief, > > the trust, trust amendment, or durable power of > attorney shall not be deemed to be an alternative to the appointment of a > guardian. The appointment of a guardian does not limit the court's power to > determine that certain authority granted by a durable power of attorney is > to remain exercisable by the attorney in fact. > > (7) FEES.-- > > (a) The examining committee and any attorney > appointed under subsection (2) are entitled to reasonable fees to be > determined by the court. > > (b) The fees awarded under paragraph (a) shall be > paid by the guardian from the property of the ward or, if the ward is > indigent, by the state. The state shall have a creditor's claim against the > guardianship property for any amounts paid under this section. The state may > file its claim within 90 days after the entry of an order awarding attorney > ad litem fees. If the state does not file its claim within the 90-day > period, the state is thereafter barred from asserting the claim. Upon > petition by the state for payment of the claim, the court shall enter an > order authorizing immediate payment out of the property of the ward. The > state shall keep a record of the payments. > > (c) If the petition is dismissed, costs and > attorney's fees of the proceeding may be assessed against the petitioner if > the court finds the petition to have been filed in bad faith. > > History.--ss. 9, 26, ch. 75-222; s. 4, ch. 77-328; > s. 1, ch. 78-342; s. 6, ch. 79-221; s. 35, ch. 89-96; s. 20, ch. 90-271; s. > 4, ch. 91-303; s. 5, ch. 91-306; s. 7, ch. 96-354; s. 1783, ch. 97-102; s. > 76, ch. 2004-265; s. 4, ch. 2006-77; s. 11, ch. 2006-178; s. 44, ch. > 2006-217; s. 28, ch. 2007-62. > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:30 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question > > >> The fact that you were 17 at the time was the key factor that started the >> process. In most states competency issues need to be reviewed by a court >> periodically. There are attorneys that specialize in these issues that >> work in the areas of competency and mental health law. I am in California >> but I may be able to find you some resources to try pursuing. You would >> need to demonstrate that you are now capable of handling your affairs and >> most likely need to have a new psychiatric evaluation. Feel free to >> contact me off list as needed. >> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >> 1237 p Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 11:44 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question >> >> >>>I don't know how Florida did it, but they declared me incompetent >>> because I got involved with some old guy from a rehab center in >>> Daytona Beach. I was seventeen and my parents said I was "obsessed" >>> with various things including a young man in high school. Well, my >>> parents prevented me from having real hobbies and fascinations. >>> Because of this, I can't marry, can't live anywhere I want legally, and >>> so on. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 7/31/10, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >>>> I doubt that it would hold up in any state. Incompetence refers >>>> generally to >>>> a person who is mentally ill or severely disabled enough where they are >>>> not >>>> comprehending or able to take care of their lives. In many states a >>>> person >>>> would have to be placed on conservatorship and there are specific >>>> requirements today regarding conservatorships such as the due process >>>> that >>>> is required for a potential conservatee to go through such as the >>>> appointment of an attornehy and a hearing. At least that is how it is >>>> here >>>> in California and it was pretty much the same when I lived in Michigan. >>>> chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >>>> 1237 P Street >>>> Fresno ca 93721 >>>> 559-266-9237 >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 5:49 AM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] question >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have a question. Can a person be declared incompetent just because >>>>>they >>>>>are blind? >>>>> RJ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> > From LBlake at nfb.org Mon Aug 2 16:07:00 2010 From: LBlake at nfb.org (Blake, Lou Ann) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 12:07:00 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Plans are well underway for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium, "Bridging the Gap between the Civil Rights Movements and the Disability Rights Movement." The 2011 symposium will be co-hosted by the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute and the American Association of People with Disabilities. Mark your calendar to attend the Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute on April 14-15, 2011. The symposium will conclude at approximately 12:30 PM on Friday, April 15. Be sure to visit the law symposium Web page at http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp during the coming months for agenda, registration, and hotel information. You will also find links to recordings of the 2008, 2009, and 2010 symposia on this Web page. The proceedings of the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium, held this past April, will be published by the Burton Blatt Institute. Additional information on availability of the proceedings will be included on the symposium Web page in the near future. To view online the full text articles from the 2008 symposium volume or to purchase the 2009 symposium volume, go to the Texas Journal on Civil Liberties and Civil Rights Web site at: http://www.utexas.edu/law/publications/issn/tjclcr/tjclcr_info.html. For additional information about the Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium, please contact: Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 3 06:53:01 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 23:53:01 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8233ED75781D457595246D157FA2133D@spike> I would think that this would be grounds for an ADA complaint with the Department of Justice or a grievance with the state agency in your state that regulates public utilities. Here in California its the aPublic Utilities Commission. not sure though what it is in Texas. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 3:03 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills > > OK so, I have a consumer of mine who has had an issue with his electric > company in the last week. They cut off his power and told him he owed > money for a deposit he owed. Anways, he called and tried to talk to them > about it. They told him they had sent him a bill and a notice regarding > this. He says he enver recieved the notice, but that is beside the point. > He told them he could not read the bill he recieved because he is blind. > The customer service told him that it wasnt their problem because they are > not requierd to make the bill accessible to him. Is this true? I thought > SSA had just lost a case requiring them to start making their mailings > accessible. As it turned out, I read his bill to him and it didn't say on > the bill he owed the additional part of the deposit anyway, but even if it > did he had no way of knowing it did. > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From fwlopez at comcast.net Tue Aug 3 20:49:15 2010 From: fwlopez at comcast.net (Fred Wright Lopez) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish to raise two issues: First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or another Western state. Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this important event. Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > Jacobus tenBroe From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Aug 3 21:33:59 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:33:59 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D7177@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Fred - As a public defender in Arizona (not much money, even less travel time), thanks for raising these points! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Fred Wright Lopez Sent: Tuesday, 03 August, 2010 1:49 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish to raise two issues: First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or another Western state. Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this important event. Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > Jacobus tenBroe _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 3 21:35:49 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:35:49 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <005c01cb3353$eda1fef0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Fred and everyone, With such a long lead time there's no reason why you can't make plans now to attend the 2011 Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium in person to avail yourself of all it has to offer. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the announcement was made now to allow those wishing to attend to begin making their arrangements to be there in the flesh. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wright Lopez" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish to raise two issues: First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or another Western state. Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this important event. Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > Jacobus tenBroe _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From billreif at ameritech.net Tue Aug 3 21:44:18 2010 From: billreif at ameritech.net (Bill Reif) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 16:44:18 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4C588DB2.2090208@ameritech.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Tue Aug 3 21:49:27 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:49:27 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills In-Reply-To: <8233ED75781D457595246D157FA2133D@spike> References: <8233ED75781D457595246D157FA2133D@spike> Message-ID: <004501cb3355$c03a6400$40af2c00$@com> Hopefully, before filing a complaint...maybe this person could attempt to speak with a manager first to explain the situation. Most of those people who answer the phones have no idea what the law is. Seems that would be the appropriate step initially. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:53 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills I would think that this would be grounds for an ADA complaint with the Department of Justice or a grievance with the state agency in your state that regulates public utilities. Here in California its the aPublic Utilities Commission. not sure though what it is in Texas. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 3:03 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills > > OK so, I have a consumer of mine who has had an issue with his electric > company in the last week. They cut off his power and told him he owed > money for a deposit he owed. Anways, he called and tried to talk to them > about it. They told him they had sent him a bill and a notice regarding > this. He says he enver recieved the notice, but that is beside the point. > He told them he could not read the bill he recieved because he is blind. > The customer service told him that it wasnt their problem because they are > not requierd to make the bill accessible to him. Is this true? I thought > SSA had just lost a case requiring them to start making their mailings > accessible. As it turned out, I read his bill to him and it didn't say on > the bill he owed the additional part of the deposit anyway, but even if it > did he had no way of knowing it did. > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Aug 3 22:39:51 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 15:39:51 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <005c01cb3353$eda1fef0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> <005c01cb3353$eda1fef0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D7179@EVS02.central.pima.gov> I can only speak for myself and other public agency attorneys whose office funding sources are extremely tight, but here goes: In our office, like many other government agencies at least in Arizona, only in-state seminars which directly touch on our area of practice or are required by the State Bar yearly CLE quota rules are reimbursed. This includes travel costs and the ability to use work time, as opposed to personal time (unpaid) or vacation time (limited). I would therefore have to pay the entire cost, from registration through travel expenses, and be required to utilize vacation time. As a public attorney, I can neither truly afford that nor expect my family to forego vacation time because of the fact that the seminar is across the country from here. Nevertheless, I am interested in the subject matter and would love to somehow participate, even if it is simply through the webinar format. Advance notice does nothing to help the time / expense issue, which could be greatly reduced by the use of modern technology. Just my two cents worth.... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Tuesday, 03 August, 2010 2:36 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Hello Fred and everyone, With such a long lead time there's no reason why you can't make plans now to attend the 2011 Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium in person to avail yourself of all it has to offer. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the announcement was made now to allow those wishing to attend to begin making their arrangements to be there in the flesh. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wright Lopez" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish to raise two issues: First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or another Western state. Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this important event. Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > Jacobus tenBroe _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sb cglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Tue Aug 3 22:54:42 2010 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 15:54:42 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D7179@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net><005c01cb3353$eda1fef0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D7179@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F605F3DB72@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Thanks Susan, my sentiments exactly. Sincerely, Timothy Ford Another state government lawyer who otherwise would not be able to participate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:40 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium I can only speak for myself and other public agency attorneys whose office funding sources are extremely tight, but here goes: In our office, like many other government agencies at least in Arizona, only in-state seminars which directly touch on our area of practice or are required by the State Bar yearly CLE quota rules are reimbursed. This includes travel costs and the ability to use work time, as opposed to personal time (unpaid) or vacation time (limited). I would therefore have to pay the entire cost, from registration through travel expenses, and be required to utilize vacation time. As a public attorney, I can neither truly afford that nor expect my family to forego vacation time because of the fact that the seminar is across the country from here. Nevertheless, I am interested in the subject matter and would love to somehow participate, even if it is simply through the webinar format. Advance notice does nothing to help the time / expense issue, which could be greatly reduced by the use of modern technology. Just my two cents worth.... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Tuesday, 03 August, 2010 2:36 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Hello Fred and everyone, With such a long lead time there's no reason why you can't make plans now to attend the 2011 Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium in person to avail yourself of all it has to offer. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the announcement was made now to allow those wishing to attend to begin making their arrangements to be there in the flesh. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wright Lopez" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish to raise two issues: First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or another Western state. Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this important event. Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > Jacobus tenBroe _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sb cglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov From AZNOR99 at aol.com Wed Aug 4 01:39:05 2010 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 21:39:05 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Message-ID: Part of the reason we have the Symposium at the NFB Headquarters is that the costs associated with such a conference is substantially lower than if we have it elsewhere. As a nonprofit organization very heavily funded by member donations and fundraising, it is in our best interests to keep costs down. Thus, by holding the event at our own space, we avoid paying conference space rental costs and cut down on lodging expenses by accommodating some of our speakers in the building. Moreover, our in-house catering team is substantially more affordable than a hotel or outside caterer. Finally, Jacobus TenBroek was the first President of the National Federation of the Blind, and thus it is appropriate to hold a Symposium named in his honor and implementing his legacy at the headquarters of the National Federation of the Blind. Ronza In a message dated 8/3/2010 6:55:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov writes: Thanks Susan, my sentiments exactly. Sincerely, Timothy Ford Another state government lawyer who otherwise would not be able to participate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:40 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium I can only speak for myself and other public agency attorneys whose office funding sources are extremely tight, but here goes: In our office, like many other government agencies at least in Arizona, only in-state seminars which directly touch on our area of practice or are required by the State Bar yearly CLE quota rules are reimbursed. This includes travel costs and the ability to use work time, as opposed to personal time (unpaid) or vacation time (limited). I would therefore have to pay the entire cost, from registration through travel expenses, and be required to utilize vacation time. As a public attorney, I can neither truly afford that nor expect my family to forego vacation time because of the fact that the seminar is across the country from here. Nevertheless, I am interested in the subject matter and would love to somehow participate, even if it is simply through the webinar format. Advance notice does nothing to help the time / expense issue, which could be greatly reduced by the use of modern technology. Just my two cents worth.... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Tuesday, 03 August, 2010 2:36 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Hello Fred and everyone, With such a long lead time there's no reason why you can't make plans now to attend the 2011 Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium in person to avail yourself of all it has to offer. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the announcement was made now to allow those wishing to attend to begin making their arrangements to be there in the flesh. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wright Lopez" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish to raise two issues: First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or another Western state. Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this important event. Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > Jacobus tenBroe _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sb cglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Wed Aug 4 14:26:59 2010 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 07:26:59 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F605F3DB8E@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> I can appreciate the cost advantage to the conference holder, but the constant use of Baltimore as the site imposes a significant barrier to those of us who are located on the West Coast. That said, the option of "broadcasting" the conference over the Internet would go a long way to providing a reasonable alternative to live attendance. The technology is certainly there and should be well within the technical capabilities of the event sponsor. Sincerely, Tim Ford -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 6:39 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Part of the reason we have the Symposium at the NFB Headquarters is that the costs associated with such a conference is substantially lower than if we have it elsewhere. As a nonprofit organization very heavily funded by member donations and fundraising, it is in our best interests to keep costs down. Thus, by holding the event at our own space, we avoid paying conference space rental costs and cut down on lodging expenses by accommodating some of our speakers in the building. Moreover, our in-house catering team is substantially more affordable than a hotel or outside caterer. Finally, Jacobus TenBroek was the first President of the National Federation of the Blind, and thus it is appropriate to hold a Symposium named in his honor and implementing his legacy at the headquarters of the National Federation of the Blind. Ronza In a message dated 8/3/2010 6:55:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov writes: Thanks Susan, my sentiments exactly. Sincerely, Timothy Ford Another state government lawyer who otherwise would not be able to participate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:40 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium I can only speak for myself and other public agency attorneys whose office funding sources are extremely tight, but here goes: In our office, like many other government agencies at least in Arizona, only in-state seminars which directly touch on our area of practice or are required by the State Bar yearly CLE quota rules are reimbursed. This includes travel costs and the ability to use work time, as opposed to personal time (unpaid) or vacation time (limited). I would therefore have to pay the entire cost, from registration through travel expenses, and be required to utilize vacation time. As a public attorney, I can neither truly afford that nor expect my family to forego vacation time because of the fact that the seminar is across the country from here. Nevertheless, I am interested in the subject matter and would love to somehow participate, even if it is simply through the webinar format. Advance notice does nothing to help the time / expense issue, which could be greatly reduced by the use of modern technology. Just my two cents worth.... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Tuesday, 03 August, 2010 2:36 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Hello Fred and everyone, With such a long lead time there's no reason why you can't make plans now to attend the 2011 Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium in person to avail yourself of all it has to offer. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the announcement was made now to allow those wishing to attend to begin making their arrangements to be there in the flesh. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wright Lopez" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish to raise two issues: First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or another Western state. Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this important event. Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > Jacobus tenBroe _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sb cglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Aug 4 14:42:30 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 07:42:30 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F605F3DB8E@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> References: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F605F3DB8E@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E381@EVS02.central.pima.gov> It is also fairly inexpensive - I have been able to "attend" and participate in several immigration webinars that have been presented by a non-profit agency in San Francisco in this way. The audio connection is by conference call, while there is a and area on the webinar screen to type in questions for the moderator while the conference call listeners are on "mute". It is both affordable for the presenter and for the attendees. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS) Sent: Wednesday, 04 August, 2010 7:27 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium I can appreciate the cost advantage to the conference holder, but the constant use of Baltimore as the site imposes a significant barrier to those of us who are located on the West Coast. That said, the option of "broadcasting" the conference over the Internet would go a long way to providing a reasonable alternative to live attendance. The technology is certainly there and should be well within the technical capabilities of the event sponsor. Sincerely, Tim Ford -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 6:39 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Part of the reason we have the Symposium at the NFB Headquarters is that the costs associated with such a conference is substantially lower than if we have it elsewhere. As a nonprofit organization very heavily funded by member donations and fundraising, it is in our best interests to keep costs down. Thus, by holding the event at our own space, we avoid paying conference space rental costs and cut down on lodging expenses by accommodating some of our speakers in the building. Moreover, our in-house catering team is substantially more affordable than a hotel or outside caterer. Finally, Jacobus TenBroek was the first President of the National Federation of the Blind, and thus it is appropriate to hold a Symposium named in his honor and implementing his legacy at the headquarters of the National Federation of the Blind. Ronza In a message dated 8/3/2010 6:55:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov writes: Thanks Susan, my sentiments exactly. Sincerely, Timothy Ford Another state government lawyer who otherwise would not be able to participate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:40 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium I can only speak for myself and other public agency attorneys whose office funding sources are extremely tight, but here goes: In our office, like many other government agencies at least in Arizona, only in-state seminars which directly touch on our area of practice or are required by the State Bar yearly CLE quota rules are reimbursed. This includes travel costs and the ability to use work time, as opposed to personal time (unpaid) or vacation time (limited). I would therefore have to pay the entire cost, from registration through travel expenses, and be required to utilize vacation time. As a public attorney, I can neither truly afford that nor expect my family to forego vacation time because of the fact that the seminar is across the country from here. Nevertheless, I am interested in the subject matter and would love to somehow participate, even if it is simply through the webinar format. Advance notice does nothing to help the time / expense issue, which could be greatly reduced by the use of modern technology. Just my two cents worth.... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Tuesday, 03 August, 2010 2:36 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Hello Fred and everyone, With such a long lead time there's no reason why you can't make plans now to attend the 2011 Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium in person to avail yourself of all it has to offer. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the announcement was made now to allow those wishing to attend to begin making their arrangements to be there in the flesh. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wright Lopez" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish to raise two issues: First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or another Western state. Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this important event. Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > Jacobus tenBroe _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sb cglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From stiehm.law at juno.com Wed Aug 4 20:20:53 2010 From: stiehm.law at juno.com (Patrick H Stiehm) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 16:20:53 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Message-ID: <20100804.162053.5040.0.stiehm.law@juno.com> Of the two points raised by Mr. Lopez below, the suggestion that the symposium be offered on the web seems to have generated the most comments. I join those who favor that alternative. I understand that these decisions are made by committee. Let's hope the members of the committee take heed of the well reasoned comments concerning the second point. Even if it does not occur for the 2011 symposium it will hopefully be adopted soon thereafter. Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, Virginia 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Fred Wright Lopez writes: > With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I > wish to raise two issues: > First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider > alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. > Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters > limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and > interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and > disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of > a long time professor of law at the University of California is > never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium > the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or > another Western state. > > Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so > that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In > this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not > webcasting this important event. > > Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar > > > On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > > > Jacobus tenBroe > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju no.com > > Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, Virginia 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net ____________________________________________________________ Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59cbf25b24ed84a0m04vuc From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 4 20:40:11 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 13:40:11 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <005c01cb3353$eda1fef0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> <005c01cb3353$eda1fef0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: It is this type of arrogant response that would make me not want to attend this event even if I had the money or the time. Is the NFB this unresponsive to the wishes of its members? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > Hello Fred and everyone, > > With such a long lead time there's no reason why you can't make plans > now to attend the 2011 Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium in person > to avail yourself of all it has to offer. Perhaps this is one of the > reasons > why the announcement was made now to allow those wishing to attend to > begin > making their arrangements to be there in the flesh. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Wright Lopez" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:49 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > > > With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish > to raise two issues: > First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative > geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site > every > year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to > participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who > are > advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference > named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of > California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 > symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or > another Western state. > > Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that > others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this > current > technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this > important > event. > > Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar > > > On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > >> Jacobus tenBroe > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From fwlopez at comcast.net Wed Aug 4 21:00:54 2010 From: fwlopez at comcast.net (Fred Wright Lopez) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:00:54 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <20100804.162053.5040.0.stiehm.law@juno.com> References: <20100804.162053.5040.0.stiehm.law@juno.com> Message-ID: <9EC97189-5E29-4531-91F4-B157F24B8896@comcast.net> If the organizers and sponsors of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium do not believe they have the resources or personnel to arrange for a "Web conference" or "Webinare" than this may be something that those of us who are interested can go to the American Bar Association and seek their assistance. I am confident that the ABA (as well as many state bars) have considerable in house experience in organizing inter active live web conferences. I for one would be willing to volunteer to work on this as a project if the Symposium organizers consent.. We may continue to disagree as to the situs of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium but we need not be disagreeable in doing so. The objective here should be to secure the widest possible participation of practitioners for this event. It may well turn out that by adding a live web conferencing feature to the Symposium that not only will a wider audience be reached put it may actually encourage attorneys and others to attend in person at future events. On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Patrick H Stiehm wrote: > Of the two points raised by Mr. Lopez below, the suggestion that the > symposium be offered on the web seems to have generated the most > comments. I join those who favor that alternative. I understand that > these decisions are made by committee. Let's hope the members of the > committee take heed of the well reasoned comments concerning the second > point. Even if it does not occur for the 2011 symposium it will hopefully > be adopted soon thereafter. > > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, Virginia > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > > On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Fred Wright Lopez > writes: >> With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I >> wish to raise two issues: >> First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider >> alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. >> Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters >> limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and >> interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and >> disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of >> a long time professor of law at the University of California is >> never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium >> the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or >> another Western state. >> >> Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so >> that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In >> this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not >> webcasting this important event. >> >> Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar >> >> >> On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: >> >>> Jacobus tenBroe >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> >> > > > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, Virginia > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > ____________________________________________________________ > Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance > If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59cbf25b24ed84a0m04vuc > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Aug 4 21:16:08 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:16:08 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <9EC97189-5E29-4531-91F4-B157F24B8896@comcast.net> References: <20100804.162053.5040.0.stiehm.law@juno.com> <9EC97189-5E29-4531-91F4-B157F24B8896@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E38A@EVS02.central.pima.gov> I agree, and would also love to help to the degree possible work-wise. By the way, the webinar service that is used by the San Francisco non-profit (ILRC) is "Go to", a Citrix program which obviously is web-based and very clear with WinZoom and ZoomText. Because I can still use a screen magnifier for many things, I do not know how accessible it is to screen narration. ILRC also then utilizes a conference calling center for the audio portion, which has the ability to mute listeners intermittently while the speaker is presenting a topic, and re-open for questions / participation. I think our State Bar uses the Citrix program for both audio and screen presentation, so I do not know how the audience participation portion works on that. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Fred Wright Lopez Sent: Wednesday, 04 August, 2010 2:01 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium If the organizers and sponsors of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium do not believe they have the resources or personnel to arrange for a "Web conference" or "Webinare" than this may be something that those of us who are interested can go to the American Bar Association and seek their assistance. I am confident that the ABA (as well as many state bars) have considerable in house experience in organizing inter active live web conferences. I for one would be willing to volunteer to work on this as a project if the Symposium organizers consent.. We may continue to disagree as to the situs of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium but we need not be disagreeable in doing so. The objective here should be to secure the widest possible participation of practitioners for this event. It may well turn out that by adding a live web conferencing feature to the Symposium that not only will a wider audience be reached put it may actually encourage attorneys and others to attend in person at future events. On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Patrick H Stiehm wrote: > Of the two points raised by Mr. Lopez below, the suggestion that the > symposium be offered on the web seems to have generated the most > comments. I join those who favor that alternative. I understand that > these decisions are made by committee. Let's hope the members of the > committee take heed of the well reasoned comments concerning the second > point. Even if it does not occur for the 2011 symposium it will hopefully > be adopted soon thereafter. > > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, Virginia > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > > On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Fred Wright Lopez > writes: >> With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I >> wish to raise two issues: >> First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider >> alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. >> Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters >> limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and >> interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and >> disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of >> a long time professor of law at the University of California is >> never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium >> the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or >> another Western state. >> >> Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so >> that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In >> this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not >> webcasting this important event. >> >> Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar >> >> >> On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: >> >>> Jacobus tenBroe >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40j u > no.com >> >> > > > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, Virginia > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > ____________________________________________________________ > Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance > If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59cbf25b24ed84a0m04vuc > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comc ast.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From stiehm.law at juno.com Wed Aug 4 21:33:18 2010 From: stiehm.law at juno.com (Patrick H Stiehm) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 17:33:18 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Message-ID: <20100804.173318.4716.3.stiehm.law@juno.com> Another advantage to offering the symposium electronically is that it can be stored and accessed later on an on demand basis by those who for one reason or another cannot attend either in person or electronically while the event is going on. The audio portions of the symposium could be converted to podcasts which would simply increase their availability. Like Fred and Susan I would certainly be willing to work on this project, should it be seriously considered by the powers that be. Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, Virginia 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:16:08 -0700 "Susan Kelly" writes: > I agree, and would also love to help to the degree possible > work-wise. > By the way, the webinar service that is used by the San Francisco > non-profit (ILRC) is "Go to", a Citrix program which obviously is > web-based and very clear with WinZoom and ZoomText. Because I can > still > use a screen magnifier for many things, I do not know how accessible > it > is to screen narration. ILRC also then utilizes a conference > calling > center for the audio portion, which has the ability to mute > listeners > intermittently while the speaker is presenting a topic, and re-open > for > questions / participation. I think our State Bar uses the Citrix > program for both audio and screen presentation, so I do not know how > the > audience participation portion works on that. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Fred Wright Lopez > Sent: Wednesday, 04 August, 2010 2:01 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law > Symposium > > If the organizers and sponsors of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium do > not > believe they have the resources or personnel to arrange for a "Web > conference" or "Webinare" than this may be something that those of > us > who are interested can go to the American Bar Association and seek > their > assistance. I am confident that the ABA (as well as many state > bars) > have considerable in house experience in organizing inter active > live > web conferences. I for one would be willing to volunteer to work > on > this as a project if the Symposium organizers consent.. > > We may continue to disagree as to the situs of the Jacobus tenBroek > Symposium but we need not be disagreeable in doing so. The > objective > here should be to secure the widest possible participation of > s for this event. It may well turn out that by adding a > live web conferencing feature to the Symposium that not only will a > wider audience be reached put it may actually encourage attorneys > and > others to attend in person at future events. > > > > On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Patrick H Stiehm wrote: > > > Of the two points raised by Mr. Lopez below, the suggestion that > the > > symposium be offered on the web seems to have generated the most > > comments. I join those who favor that alternative. I understand > that > > these decisions are made by committee. Let's hope the members of > the > > committee take heed of the well reasoned comments concerning the > second > > point. Even if it does not occur for the 2011 symposium it will > hopefully > > be adopted soon thereafter. > > > > Stiehm Law Office > > Alexandria, Virginia > > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > > > > On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Fred Wright Lopez > > > writes: > >> With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law > Symposium I > > >> wish to raise two issues: > >> First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider > >> alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. > >> Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters > >> limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and > >> interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind > and > >> disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor > of > >> a long time professor of law at the University of California is > >> never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium > > >> the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or > >> another Western state. > >> > >> Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed > so > >> that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? > In > >> this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not > >> webcasting this important event. > >> > >> Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar > >> > >> > >> On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > >> > >>> Jacobus tenBroe > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > >> for blindlaw: > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40j > u > > no.com > >> > >> > > > > > > Stiehm Law Office > > Alexandria, Virginia > > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > > ____________________________________________________________ > > Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance > > If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi > Program > > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59cbf25b24ed84a0m04vuc > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comc > ast.net > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 > pima.gov > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju no.com > > Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, Virginia 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net ____________________________________________________________ SHOCKING: Samsung 46" 3D LED TV for $84.95 SPECIAL REPORT: High ticket items are being auctioned for an incredible 90% off! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59dcddb37d4d8a19m04vuc From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Thu Aug 5 04:08:16 2010 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 00:08:16 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> <005c01cb3353$eda1fef0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <82A4A2F2CCE04E9D84A7C5C80B89D6B5@14bd0130080a469> I hear that- Isn't this event about disability law? Why would broadening the pool of participants to include more attorneys with blindness and/or other disabilities be a problem?? CB & A -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 4:40 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium It is this type of arrogant response that would make me not want to attend this event even if I had the money or the time. Is the NFB this unresponsive to the wishes of its members? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > Hello Fred and everyone, > > With such a long lead time there's no reason why you can't make plans > now to attend the 2011 Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium in person > to avail yourself of all it has to offer. Perhaps this is one of the > reasons > why the announcement was made now to allow those wishing to attend to > begin > making their arrangements to be there in the flesh. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Wright Lopez" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:49 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > > > With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish > to raise two issues: > First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative > geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site > every > year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to > participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who > are > advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference > named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of > California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 > symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or > another Western state. > > Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that > others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this > current > technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this > important > event. > > Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar > > > On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > >> Jacobus tenBroe > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo bal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3047 - Release Date: 08/04/10 04:45:00 From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Thu Aug 5 13:34:53 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 07:34:53 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium References: <20100804.162053.5040.0.stiehm.law@juno.com> <9EC97189-5E29-4531-91F4-B157F24B8896@comcast.net> Message-ID: <10DEAFFEF7404154AAF2F42098D4B3DE@labarre> I serve on the steering committee and I appreciate everyone's comments. We have conducted three of these symposia thus far. Past programs, or at least the plennary sessions, have been recorded and later placed on the web. We can certainly explore fully whether we can broadcast the syposium live over the internet and construct interactive features. As for moving the Symposium around, there is nothing written in stone about what we have done. There is, of course, the preference to do the symposium at our headquarters where we have wonderful facilities to do so but who knows what the future might bring. We are just delighted that the syposium has grown each year and generates more and more interest. Again, thank you for your thoughts and ideas and I will bring them to the rest of the steering committee. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wright Lopez" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > If the organizers and sponsors of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium do not > believe they have the resources or personnel to arrange for a "Web > conference" or "Webinare" than this may be something that those of us > who are interested can go to the American Bar Association and seek their > assistance. I am confident that the ABA (as well as many state bars) > have considerable in house experience in organizing inter active live web > conferences. I for one would be willing to volunteer to work on this as > a project if the Symposium organizers consent.. > > We may continue to disagree as to the situs of the Jacobus tenBroek > Symposium but we need not be disagreeable in doing so. The objective here > should be to secure the widest possible participation of practitioners for > this event. It may well turn out that by adding a live web conferencing > feature to the Symposium that not only will a wider audience be reached > put it may actually encourage attorneys and others to attend in person at > future events. > > > > On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Patrick H Stiehm wrote: > >> Of the two points raised by Mr. Lopez below, the suggestion that the >> symposium be offered on the web seems to have generated the most >> comments. I join those who favor that alternative. I understand that >> these decisions are made by committee. Let's hope the members of the >> committee take heed of the well reasoned comments concerning the second >> point. Even if it does not occur for the 2011 symposium it will hopefully >> be adopted soon thereafter. >> >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, Virginia >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net >> >> On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Fred Wright Lopez >> writes: >>> With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I >>> wish to raise two issues: >>> First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider >>> alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. >>> Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters >>> limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and >>> interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and >>> disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of >>> a long time professor of law at the University of California is >>> never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium >>> the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or >>> another Western state. >>> >>> Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so >>> that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In >>> this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not >>> webcasting this important event. >>> >>> Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar >>> >>> >>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: >>> >>>> Jacobus tenBroe >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >>> >> >> >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, Virginia >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance >> If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59cbf25b24ed84a0m04vuc >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From stiehm.law at juno.com Thu Aug 5 14:26:47 2010 From: stiehm.law at juno.com (Patrick H Stiehm) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 10:26:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Message-ID: <20100805.102647.3424.1.stiehm.law@juno.com> Scott, Thank you for the comments below. I am sure all of us who were urging the availability of the symposium on an "online" basis appreciate your efforts in bringing our concerns to the Steering Committee. The content of the symposium is such that CLE credits are clearly available when a participant applies to his or her state for such credit. The problem with and videotaping the symposium and offering it online later, is that it then becomes the same as CLE that is offered on a "on demand" basis. There are some states, Minnesota for example, that require that any online CLE be offered on a "live" basis for credit approval. As a matter of fact I think this requirement goes one step further and requires that the online participants be able to ask questions. Since NFB is already going to the trouble of recording each session, it seems to me that the next logical step is to do those things that are necessary to offer it "live" not just for CLE approval in those states that require such live presentation but so that those participating online can fully participate by asking questions of the speakers the same as the people physically present in the live audience. Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, Virginia 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 07:34:53 -0600 "Scott C. LaBarre" writes: > I serve on the steering committee and I appreciate everyone's > comments. We > have conducted three of these symposia thus far. Past programs, or > at least > the plennary sessions, have been recorded and later placed on the > web. We > can certainly explore fully whether we can broadcast the syposium > live over > the internet and construct interactive features. As for moving the > > Symposium around, there is nothing written in stone about what we > have done. > There is, of course, the preference to do the symposium at our > headquarters > where we have wonderful facilities to do so but who knows what the > future > might bring. We are just delighted that the syposium has grown each > year > and generates more and more interest. Again, thank you for your > thoughts > and ideas and I will bring them to the rest of the steering > committee. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not > read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any > attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Wright Lopez" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:00 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law > Symposium > > > > If the organizers and sponsors of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium do > not > > believe they have the resources or personnel to arrange for a "Web > > > conference" or "Webinare" than this may be something that those > of us > > who are interested can go to the American Bar Association and seek > their > > assistance. I am confident that the ABA (as well as many state > bars) > > have considerable in house experience in organizing inter active > live web > > conferences. I for one would be willing to volunteer to work on > this as > > a project if the Symposium organizers consent.. > > > > We may continue to disagree as to the situs of the Jacobus > tenBroek > > Symposium but we need not be disagreeable in doing so. The > objective here > > should be to secure the widest possible participation of > practitioners for > > this event. It may well turn out that by adding a live web > conferencing > > feature to the Symposium that not only will a wider audience be > reached > > put it may actually encourage attorneys and others to attend in > person at > > future events. > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Patrick H Stiehm wrote: > > > >> Of the two points raised by Mr. Lopez below, the suggestion that > the > >> symposium be offered on the web seems to have generated the most > >> comments. I join those who favor that alternative. I understand > that > >> these decisions are made by committee. Let's hope the members of > the > >> committee take heed of the well reasoned comments concerning the > second > >> point. Even if it does not occur for the 2011 symposium it will > hopefully > >> be adopted soon thereafter. > >> > >> Stiehm Law Office > >> Alexandria, Virginia > >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) > >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) > >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > >> > >> On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Fred Wright Lopez > > >> writes: > >>> With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law > Symposium I > >>> wish to raise two issues: > >>> First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider > >>> alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. > >>> Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters > >>> limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and > >>> interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind > and > >>> disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor > of > >>> a long time professor of law at the University of California is > >>> never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 > symposium > >>> the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or > >>> another Western state. > >>> > >>> Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed > so > >>> that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? > In > >>> this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not > >>> webcasting this important event. > >>> > >>> Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar > >>> > >>> > >>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > >>> > >>>> Jacobus tenBroe > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > >>> for blindlaw: > >>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > >> no.com > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> Stiehm Law Office > >> Alexandria, Virginia > >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) > >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) > >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance > >> If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi > Program > >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59cbf25b24ed84a0m04vuc > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comca st.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40laba rrelaw.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju no.com > > Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, Virginia 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net ____________________________________________________________ Project Management Cert Villanova PMP® & CAPM® Classes. Average Salary For PMPs is $100K http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c5aca3a211ccdbc94m04vuc From AZNOR99 at aol.com Thu Aug 5 14:37:05 2010 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 10:37:05 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] Webinar Tool Message-ID: <2efe5.6609fa41.398c2691@aol.com> Colleagues, A recent thread on this list referenced online CLE webinars with an interactive component and Q&A windows. Does anyone know of a platform like this that is Jaws/WindowEyes compatible or 508 compliant? I know Adobe Flash and Microsoft Communicator are not. I'd appreciate any suggestions, especially if your State Bar Association used them successfully. Thanks, Ronza From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Thu Aug 5 14:50:40 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 07:50:40 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Webinar Tool In-Reply-To: <2efe5.6609fa41.398c2691@aol.com> References: <2efe5.6609fa41.398c2691@aol.com> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E38D@EVS02.central.pima.gov> I will check with a friend of mine at ILRC, which utilizes "GO To" for webinars. I know that it works with the screen magnification tools of WinZoom and ZoomText, and I have always been more involved with listening to the speakers than to worry much with the narration tools during the seminar. However, ILRC also takes the extra step of sending us printed materials electronically prior to the actual webinar in several formats. The PDF documents are readable by the narration tools, at least the ones that I have installed on my work and personal computers. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, 05 August, 2010 7:37 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Webinar Tool Colleagues, A recent thread on this list referenced online CLE webinars with an interactive component and Q&A windows. Does anyone know of a platform like this that is Jaws/WindowEyes compatible or 508 compliant? I know Adobe Flash and Microsoft Communicator are not. I'd appreciate any suggestions, especially if your State Bar Association used them successfully. Thanks, Ronza _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Thu Aug 5 15:00:54 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 11:00:54 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium References: <20100805.102647.3424.1.stiehm.law@juno.com> Message-ID: <829C325AFE9649E991945047A8C62642@hometwxakonvzn> What types of area's does disability law cover? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick H Stiehm" To: ; Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Scott, Thank you for the comments below. I am sure all of us who were urging the availability of the symposium on an "online" basis appreciate your efforts in bringing our concerns to the Steering Committee. The content of the symposium is such that CLE credits are clearly available when a participant applies to his or her state for such credit. The problem with and videotaping the symposium and offering it online later, is that it then becomes the same as CLE that is offered on a "on demand" basis. There are some states, Minnesota for example, that require that any online CLE be offered on a "live" basis for credit approval. As a matter of fact I think this requirement goes one step further and requires that the online participants be able to ask questions. Since NFB is already going to the trouble of recording each session, it seems to me that the next logical step is to do those things that are necessary to offer it "live" not just for CLE approval in those states that require such live presentation but so that those participating online can fully participate by asking questions of the speakers the same as the people physically present in the live audience. Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, Virginia 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 07:34:53 -0600 "Scott C. LaBarre" writes: > I serve on the steering committee and I appreciate everyone's > comments. We > have conducted three of these symposia thus far. Past programs, or > at least > the plennary sessions, have been recorded and later placed on the > web. We > can certainly explore fully whether we can broadcast the syposium > live over > the internet and construct interactive features. As for moving the > > Symposium around, there is nothing written in stone about what we > have done. > There is, of course, the preference to do the symposium at our > headquarters > where we have wonderful facilities to do so but who knows what the > future > might bring. We are just delighted that the syposium has grown each > year > and generates more and more interest. Again, thank you for your > thoughts > and ideas and I will bring them to the rest of the steering > committee. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not > read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any > attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Wright Lopez" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:00 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law > Symposium > > > > If the organizers and sponsors of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium do > not > > believe they have the resources or personnel to arrange for a "Web > > > conference" or "Webinare" than this may be something that those > of us > > who are interested can go to the American Bar Association and seek > their > > assistance. I am confident that the ABA (as well as many state > bars) > > have considerable in house experience in organizing inter active > live web > > conferences. I for one would be willing to volunteer to work on > this as > > a project if the Symposium organizers consent.. > > > > We may continue to disagree as to the situs of the Jacobus > tenBroek > > Symposium but we need not be disagreeable in doing so. The > objective here > > should be to secure the widest possible participation of > practitioners for > > this event. It may well turn out that by adding a live web > conferencing > > feature to the Symposium that not only will a wider audience be > reached > > put it may actually encourage attorneys and others to attend in > person at > > future events. > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Patrick H Stiehm wrote: > > > >> Of the two points raised by Mr. Lopez below, the suggestion that > the > >> symposium be offered on the web seems to have generated the most > >> comments. I join those who favor that alternative. I understand > that > >> these decisions are made by committee. Let's hope the members of > the > >> committee take heed of the well reasoned comments concerning the > second > >> point. Even if it does not occur for the 2011 symposium it will > hopefully > >> be adopted soon thereafter. > >> > >> Stiehm Law Office > >> Alexandria, Virginia > >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) > >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) > >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > >> > >> On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Fred Wright Lopez > > >> writes: > >>> With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law > Symposium I > >>> wish to raise two issues: > >>> First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider > >>> alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. > >>> Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters > >>> limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and > >>> interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind > and > >>> disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor > of > >>> a long time professor of law at the University of California is > >>> never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 > symposium > >>> the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or > >>> another Western state. > >>> > >>> Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed > so > >>> that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? > In > >>> this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not > >>> webcasting this important event. > >>> > >>> Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar > >>> > >>> > >>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > >>> > >>>> Jacobus tenBroe > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > >>> for blindlaw: > >>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > >> no.com > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> Stiehm Law Office > >> Alexandria, Virginia > >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) > >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) > >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance > >> If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi > Program > >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59cbf25b24ed84a0m04vuc > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comca st.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40laba rrelaw.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju no.com > > Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, Virginia 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net ____________________________________________________________ Project Management Cert Villanova PMP® & CAPM® Classes. Average Salary For PMPs is $100K http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c5aca3a211ccdbc94m04vuc _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Thu Aug 5 15:04:21 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 08:04:21 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Webinar Tool In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E38D@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <2efe5.6609fa41.398c2691@aol.com> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E38D@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E38E@EVS02.central.pima.gov> By the way, I found the company web site and sent a request for information - I will forward their response, regarding JAWS (and DragonSpeak, for people with other disabilities) if and when received. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly Sent: Thursday, 05 August, 2010 7:51 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Webinar Tool I will check with a friend of mine at ILRC, which utilizes "GO To" for webinars. I know that it works with the screen magnification tools of WinZoom and ZoomText, and I have always been more involved with listening to the speakers than to worry much with the narration tools during the seminar. However, ILRC also takes the extra step of sending us printed materials electronically prior to the actual webinar in several formats. The PDF documents are readable by the narration tools, at least the ones that I have installed on my work and personal computers. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, 05 August, 2010 7:37 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Webinar Tool Colleagues, A recent thread on this list referenced online CLE webinars with an interactive component and Q&A windows. Does anyone know of a platform like this that is Jaws/WindowEyes compatible or 508 compliant? I know Adobe Flash and Microsoft Communicator are not. I'd appreciate any suggestions, especially if your State Bar Association used them successfully. Thanks, Ronza _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From tom at tomladis.com Thu Aug 5 15:09:28 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 10:09:28 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Message-ID: Hello All, I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? Thanks, Tom From k7uij at panix.com Thu Aug 5 15:33:57 2010 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 08:33:57 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: Message-ID: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? Ah, the advantages of an external synth! Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello All, > > I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through > www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get > around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added > real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username > and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they > present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same > time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a > barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. > > Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? > > > Thanks, > Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 5 20:52:31 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 13:52:31 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E38A@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <20100804.162053.5040.0.stiehm.law@juno.com><9EC97189-5E29-4531-91F4-B157F24B8896@comcast.net> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E38A@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: I have had bad experiences using the GO to or Citrix formats with JAWS. While I could listen to the webinars I could not actively participate using JAWS. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kelly" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium >I agree, and would also love to help to the degree possible work-wise. > By the way, the webinar service that is used by the San Francisco > non-profit (ILRC) is "Go to", a Citrix program which obviously is > web-based and very clear with WinZoom and ZoomText. Because I can still > use a screen magnifier for many things, I do not know how accessible it > is to screen narration. ILRC also then utilizes a conference calling > center for the audio portion, which has the ability to mute listeners > intermittently while the speaker is presenting a topic, and re-open for > questions / participation. I think our State Bar uses the Citrix > program for both audio and screen presentation, so I do not know how the > audience participation portion works on that. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Fred Wright Lopez > Sent: Wednesday, 04 August, 2010 2:01 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > > If the organizers and sponsors of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium do not > believe they have the resources or personnel to arrange for a "Web > conference" or "Webinare" than this may be something that those of us > who are interested can go to the American Bar Association and seek their > assistance. I am confident that the ABA (as well as many state bars) > have considerable in house experience in organizing inter active live > web conferences. I for one would be willing to volunteer to work on > this as a project if the Symposium organizers consent.. > > We may continue to disagree as to the situs of the Jacobus tenBroek > Symposium but we need not be disagreeable in doing so. The objective > here should be to secure the widest possible participation of > practitioners for this event. It may well turn out that by adding a > live web conferencing feature to the Symposium that not only will a > wider audience be reached put it may actually encourage attorneys and > others to attend in person at future events. > > > > On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Patrick H Stiehm wrote: > >> Of the two points raised by Mr. Lopez below, the suggestion that the >> symposium be offered on the web seems to have generated the most >> comments. I join those who favor that alternative. I understand that >> these decisions are made by committee. Let's hope the members of the >> committee take heed of the well reasoned comments concerning the > second >> point. Even if it does not occur for the 2011 symposium it will > hopefully >> be adopted soon thereafter. >> >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, Virginia >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net >> >> On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Fred Wright Lopez > >> writes: >>> With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I > >>> wish to raise two issues: >>> First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider >>> alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. >>> Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters >>> limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and >>> interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and >>> disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of >>> a long time professor of law at the University of California is >>> never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium >>> the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or >>> another Western state. >>> >>> Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so >>> that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In >>> this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not >>> webcasting this important event. >>> >>> Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar >>> >>> >>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: >>> >>>> Jacobus tenBroe >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40j > u >> no.com >>> >>> >> >> >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, Virginia >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance >> If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59cbf25b24ed84a0m04vuc >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comc > ast.net > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 > pima.gov > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Thu Aug 5 21:03:34 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 14:03:34 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: References: <20100804.162053.5040.0.stiehm.law@juno.com><9EC97189-5E29-4531-91F4-B157F24B8896@comcast.net> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E38A@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E39A@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Yes, I did hear back from my friend at ILRC - she referred my question to their IT guy, who reported that the streaming video nature of the feed is not compatible with JAWS or Dragon Speak (for physically disabled persons). As I mentioned earlier, it does work with screen magnification tools, but the narration is not possible in that format apparently. However, I have found a couple of other low-cost providers that I am researching, just to see what is possible. One is EASI, which is entirely dedicated to accessibility, so it looks promising.... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Thursday, 05 August, 2010 1:53 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium I have had bad experiences using the GO to or Citrix formats with JAWS. While I could listen to the webinars I could not actively participate using JAWS. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kelly" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium >I agree, and would also love to help to the degree possible work-wise. > By the way, the webinar service that is used by the San Francisco > non-profit (ILRC) is "Go to", a Citrix program which obviously is > web-based and very clear with WinZoom and ZoomText. Because I can still > use a screen magnifier for many things, I do not know how accessible it > is to screen narration. ILRC also then utilizes a conference calling > center for the audio portion, which has the ability to mute listeners > intermittently while the speaker is presenting a topic, and re-open for > questions / participation. I think our State Bar uses the Citrix > program for both audio and screen presentation, so I do not know how the > audience participation portion works on that. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Fred Wright Lopez > Sent: Wednesday, 04 August, 2010 2:01 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > > If the organizers and sponsors of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium do not > believe they have the resources or personnel to arrange for a "Web > conference" or "Webinare" than this may be something that those of us > who are interested can go to the American Bar Association and seek their > assistance. I am confident that the ABA (as well as many state bars) > have considerable in house experience in organizing inter active live > web conferences. I for one would be willing to volunteer to work on > this as a project if the Symposium organizers consent.. > > We may continue to disagree as to the situs of the Jacobus tenBroek > Symposium but we need not be disagreeable in doing so. The objective > here should be to secure the widest possible participation of > practitioners for this event. It may well turn out that by adding a > live web conferencing feature to the Symposium that not only will a > wider audience be reached put it may actually encourage attorneys and > others to attend in person at future events. > > > > On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Patrick H Stiehm wrote: > >> Of the two points raised by Mr. Lopez below, the suggestion that the >> symposium be offered on the web seems to have generated the most >> comments. I join those who favor that alternative. I understand that >> these decisions are made by committee. Let's hope the members of the >> committee take heed of the well reasoned comments concerning the > second >> point. Even if it does not occur for the 2011 symposium it will > hopefully >> be adopted soon thereafter. >> >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, Virginia >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net >> >> On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Fred Wright Lopez > >> writes: >>> With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I > >>> wish to raise two issues: >>> First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider >>> alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. >>> Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters >>> limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and >>> interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and >>> disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of >>> a long time professor of law at the University of California is >>> never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium >>> the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or >>> another Western state. >>> >>> Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so >>> that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In >>> this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not >>> webcasting this important event. >>> >>> Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar >>> >>> >>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: >>> >>>> Jacobus tenBroe >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40j > u >> no.com >>> >>> >> >> >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, Virginia >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance >> If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59cbf25b24ed84a0m04vuc >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comc > ast.net > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 > pima.gov > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbc global.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Thu Aug 5 22:13:31 2010 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 18:13:31 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> Message-ID: <83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I was able to log into my own account with no problem. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? Ah, the advantages of an external synth! Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello All, > > I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through > www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get > around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added > real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username > and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they > present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same > time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a > barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. > > Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? > > > Thanks, > Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5345 (20100805) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5345 (20100805) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 5 23:01:03 2010 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 16:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Message-ID: <769523.81586.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I use it and have also had the same problem. See the next forwarded message with the reply to my enquiry. --- On Thu, 8/5/10, Tom Ladis wrote: > From: Tom Ladis > Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 11:09 AM > Hello All, > > I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the > past through www.LinkedIn.com.  I have used LinkedIn in > the past and been able to get around with only a few > problems.  It appears that they have added real-time > verification to the login process on top of the normal > username and password.  They do offer the ability to > have the image that they present for real[-time > verification, but the text is spoken at the same time that > JAWS announces the popup window.  This seems to me to > be a barrier and was not there the last time that I logged > in to my account. > > Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? > > > Thanks, > Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 5 23:04:17 2010 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 16:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] security verification not accessible [Ticket: 100729-003568] Message-ID: <348970.68613.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 7:36 PM #yiv398500596 td.yiv398500596header {} #yiv398500596 td.yiv398500596text {padding-left:4px;padding-right:4px;} #yiv398500596 td.yiv398500596label {} #yiv398500596 td.yiv398500596data {} LinkedIn Customer Support Message Subject: security verification not accessible Thank you for sharing your comments on how we can make LinkedIn better. Feedback from members like you provides us with many insights that identify the needs of our customers. I sent your message to our research and development team for review and consideration in future developments. I believe the link below from our Customer Service Center might be help with more information on the security verification. Answer Title: Security Prompts Answer Link: http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=3065 Although every idea cannot be individually responded to or implemented, please know that we do monitor suggestions quite closely for recurring themes. I would like to invite you to follow us on Twitter ( http://twitter.com/linkedin ) or subscribe to the LinkedIn Blog ( http://blog.linkedin.com ) to receive the latest notifications on site improvements. Both options are great ways to stay informed about new releases and exciting work going on behind the scenes here at LinkedIn. Regards, Terrence LinkedIn Customer Support Original Contact: Member Comment: William O'Donnell 07/29/2010 11:10 PM After I sign in, I am required to type characters that appear as an image in order to see my account. When I try to listen to link that reads the image it send me to Windows Media Player and an error comes up that says that it can not read the file. What can I do to remove the images that ask me to type every time I log in? Please make it more accessible for people who are visually impaired. Please do not shut out a large population of users.    ? Would you like to learn more about how to harness the knowledge and expertise of your network? Find training resources on the LinkedIn Learning Center or browse FAQs on the LinkedIn Customer Support Center. Check out New on LinkedIn or follow us on Twitter®.   LinkedIn values your privacy. At no time has LinkedIn made your email address available to any other LinkedIn user without your permission. LinkedIn Corporation © 2010  |  Privacy Policy  |  User Agreement  |  Copyright Policy [---001:001816:56841---] From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 6 03:15:22 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 20:15:22 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I use it and have no problems. While I have not had to log in other than entering my password occasionally in additio to using JAWS I also use WebVizum for solving captcha issues and I find that it works very well as using audio captcha features can be hit or miss due to the voice quality. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello All, > > I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through > www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get > around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added > real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username > and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they > present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same > time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a > barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. > > Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? > > > Thanks, > Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 6 03:37:29 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 22:37:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> <83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13> Message-ID: <000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Chris and everyone, Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I was able to log into my own account with no problem. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? Ah, the advantages of an external synth! Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello All, > > I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through > www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get > around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added > real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username > and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they > present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same > time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a > barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. > > Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? > > > Thanks, > Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5345 (20100805) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5345 (20100805) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From dwilson.lists at gmail.com Fri Aug 6 06:13:19 2010 From: dwilson.lists at gmail.com (Derek Wilson) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 15:13:19 +0900 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> <83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13> <000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha and sometimes not, you may want to read on: QUOTE Security Verification Prompts Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters from an image shown on the security verification screen? LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our members' information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our community. As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe from real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At various points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your password or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in a security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to tell Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by websites. This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique typically used by spammers. At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. To reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the day, you might consider the following actions: 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during the day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will allow you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you can click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also available by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. Source: http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ faqid=3065 The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue will persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by LinkedIn. END QUOTE If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get their act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU Regards, Derek -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Hello Chris and everyone, Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I was able to log into my own account with no problem. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? Ah, the advantages of an external synth! Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello All, > > I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through > www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get > around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added > real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username > and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they > present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same > time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a > barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. > > Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? > > > Thanks, > Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5345 (20100805) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5345 (20100805) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo bal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm ail.com From tom at tomladis.com Fri Aug 6 13:47:09 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:47:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <769523.81586.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <58B6346313A74D408605E500B094DF4E@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Thank you. This one seems like a problem since it is so often used in the job search and career networking arena. I have quite a few friends on there and would like to keep that career networking tool available to everyone. Should I submit a trouble ticket? Tom Ladis ----- Original Message ----- From: "William ODonnell" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind I use it and have also had the same problem. See the next forwarded message with the reply to my enquiry. --- On Thu, 8/5/10, Tom Ladis wrote: > From: Tom Ladis > Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 11:09 AM > Hello All, > > I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the > past through www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in > the past and been able to get around with only a few > problems. It appears that they have added real-time > verification to the login process on top of the normal > username and password. They do offer the ability to > have the image that they present for real[-time > verification, but the text is spoken at the same time that > JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to > be a barrier and was not there the last time that I logged > in to my account. > > Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? > > > Thanks, > Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com From tom at tomladis.com Fri Aug 6 13:53:17 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:53:17 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> <83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13> Message-ID: Chris, Hmmm That is a good question. I will try to log in directly. My concern was raised by attempting to connect to friends that were sent to me in an email message. Maybe those types of connections go through a different security system to block out malicious attempts to log in. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens > sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I was > able to log into my own account with no problem. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Mike Freeman > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? > > Ah, the advantages of an external synth! > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello All, >> >> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username >> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >> >> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Tom >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5345 (20100805) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5345 (20100805) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From tom at tomladis.com Fri Aug 6 13:56:02 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:56:02 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> Message-ID: <68D48DD800B344A09520884C75F3113C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Mike, Good question. I will try it, but it may be difficult since they both start talking at about the same time. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? > > Ah, the advantages of an external synth! > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello All, >> >> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username >> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >> >> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Tom >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From tom at tomladis.com Fri Aug 6 15:54:51 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 10:54:51 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Derek, Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. Are they breaking the law by doing this test? Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha and > sometimes not, you may want to read on: > > QUOTE > > Security Verification Prompts > Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters from > an > image shown on the security verification screen? > > LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our > members' > information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our community. > > As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe > from > real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At > various > points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your password > or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in a > security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to > tell > Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by > websites. > This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from > automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique > typically used by spammers. > > At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. To > reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the day, > you might consider the following actions: > > 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) > 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during the > day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will > allow > you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do > recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. > > If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you can > click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also available > by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. > Source: > http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ > faqid=3065 > > The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This > means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue will > persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by > LinkedIn. > > END QUOTE > > If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get their > act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU > > Regards, > Derek > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Peter Donahue > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Hello Chris and everyone, > > Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was > automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Danielsen" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens > sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I was > able to log into my own account with no problem. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Mike Freeman > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? > > Ah, the advantages of an external synth! > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello All, >> >> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username >> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >> >> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Tom >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5345 (20100805) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5345 (20100805) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo > bal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From tom at tomladis.com Fri Aug 6 16:01:07 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:01:07 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13> <000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Peter, Thanks. Even if this is only testing new users, it still seems wrong. I have been on LinkedIn for more than five years, but have not logged in for a few months. Are they breaking the law by presenting this test in this manner? Some workarounds could be to repeat the audible version of the test so that we could get past the conflict with screen readers speaking at the same time. Some sites that present these audible tests as an alternative to the written version make the audio version so poorly that it is not understandable anyhow. Thanks, Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello Chris and everyone, > > Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was > automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Danielsen" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens > sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I was > able to log into my own account with no problem. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Mike Freeman > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? > > Ah, the advantages of an external synth! > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello All, >> >> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username >> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >> >> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Tom >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5345 (20100805) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5345 (20100805) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From tom at tomladis.com Fri Aug 6 16:03:18 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:03:18 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: Message-ID: <16B3A6DA98BE4166B9CC3079405DA386@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Chuck, Thank you for the tip. More gadgets. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >I use it and have no problems. While I have not had to log in other than >entering my password occasionally in additio to using JAWS I also use >WebVizum for solving captcha issues and I find that it works very well as >using audio captcha features can be hit or miss due to the voice quality. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello All, >> >> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username >> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >> >> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Tom >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Aug 6 16:08:13 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 10:08:13 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <16B3A6DA98BE4166B9CC3079405DA386@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <16B3A6DA98BE4166B9CC3079405DA386@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: I've never tried Linked In. On 8/6/10, Tom Ladis wrote: > Chuck, > > Thank you for the tip. More gadgets. > > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 10:15 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >>I use it and have no problems. While I have not had to log in other than >>entering my password occasionally in additio to using JAWS I also use >>WebVizum for solving captcha issues and I find that it works very well as >>using audio captcha features can be hit or miss due to the voice quality. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Hello All, >>> >>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username >>> >>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>> >>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tom >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 6 16:49:13 2010 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 09:49:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <58B6346313A74D408605E500B094DF4E@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <309012.91328.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> No, I did and we see how far that has gotton me. See the post from Yesterday as a forwarded message. They thank you for the input and then brush it off. That is the same story as is with every major corporation in this country. --- On Fri, 8/6/10, Tom Ladis wrote: > From: Tom Ladis > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 9:47 AM > Thank you.  This one seems like > a problem since it is so often used in the > job search and career networking arena.  I have quite > a few friends on there > and would like to keep that career networking tool > available to everyone. > > Should I submit a trouble ticket? > > > Tom Ladis > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William ODonnell" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 6:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible > To The Blind > > > I use it and have also had the same problem.  See the > next forwarded message > with the reply to my enquiry. > > > --- On Thu, 8/5/10, Tom Ladis > wrote: > > > From: Tom Ladis > > Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made > Inaccessible To The Blind > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 11:09 AM > > Hello All, > > > > I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from > the > > past through www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn > in > > the past and been able to get around with only a few > > problems. It appears that they have added real-time > > verification to the login process on top of the > normal > > username and password. They do offer the ability to > > have the image that they present for real[-time > > verification, but the text is spoken at the same time > that > > JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to > > be a barrier and was not there the last time that I > logged > > in to my account. > > > > Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? > > > > > > Thanks, > > Tom > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > > account info for blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > From tom at tomladis.com Fri Aug 6 17:03:48 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 12:03:48 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <309012.91328.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6363D8EA3A8244CCB49E977D592C6FD3@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> William, Aren't they legally responsible for making their site usable by everybody, including the excessively unemployed blind population? Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "William ODonnell" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind No, I did and we see how far that has gotton me. See the post from Yesterday as a forwarded message. They thank you for the input and then brush it off. That is the same story as is with every major corporation in this country. --- On Fri, 8/6/10, Tom Ladis wrote: > From: Tom Ladis > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 9:47 AM > Thank you. This one seems like > a problem since it is so often used in the > job search and career networking arena. I have quite > a few friends on there > and would like to keep that career networking tool > available to everyone. > > Should I submit a trouble ticket? > > > Tom Ladis > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William ODonnell" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 6:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible > To The Blind > > > I use it and have also had the same problem. See the > next forwarded message > with the reply to my enquiry. > > > --- On Thu, 8/5/10, Tom Ladis > wrote: > > > From: Tom Ladis > > Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made > Inaccessible To The Blind > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 11:09 AM > > Hello All, > > > > I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from > the > > past through www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn > in > > the past and been able to get around with only a few > > problems. It appears that they have added real-time > > verification to the login process on top of the > normal > > username and password. They do offer the ability to > > have the image that they present for real[-time > > verification, but the text is spoken at the same time > that > > JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to > > be a barrier and was not there the last time that I > logged > > in to my account. > > > > Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? > > > > > > Thanks, > > Tom > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > > account info for blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Aug 6 21:35:18 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 17:35:18 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] {Disarmed} FW: A Big Step Forward for Accessible Phones, TV and Internet! Message-ID: <8B78F787FFB14A4D9A4583FDFC8F65CC@Rufus> Subject: A Big Step Forward for Accessible Phones, TV and Internet! DVP Logo Senate passes S. 3304 !! "21st Century Communications and Video Accessiblity Act of 2010" Congratulations to the Coalition of Organizations for Accessible Technology (COAT) and AAPD's Jenifer Simpson for a job well done! AAPD logo They beat the telecom and electronic media industries with this historic legislation that will... * Require captioned television programs to be captioned when delivered over the Internet. * Authorize the FCC to require 7 hours per week of TV video description on the top 4 network channels and top 5 cable channels nationwide. * Allocate up to $10 million per year for communications equipment used by individuals who are deaf-blind. * Require televised emergency information to be accessible to individuals who are blind or have low vision. * Require accessibility of advanced communications equipment and services, such as text messaging and e-mail. * Require access to Internet services that are built-in to mobile telephone devices, like smart phones, if achievable. * Require devices of any size to be capable of displaying closed captioning, to deliver available video description, and to make emergency information accessible. * Require accessible user controls for televisions and set-top boxes, and easy access to closed captioning and video description. * And more! S. 3304 now goes to the House of of Representatives where it is expected to pass. If you have any questions regarding this legislation, contact Jenifer Simpson at 202-457-0046. About the Disability Vote Project DVP works in a non-partisan manner to eliminate the barriers to voting and, in close collaboration with coalition partners in states around the country, to increase political participation for individuals with disabilities. DVP aims to get people with disabilities registered to vote; strives to educate them on how to get to their polling places and what their rights are at the polling places; and works to make polling places accessible to voters with all disabilities. About AAPD The American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD) is the largest national nonprofit cross-disability member organization in the United States. It organizes the disability community to be a powerful force for change - politically, economically, and socially - and recognizes the value of working in broad coalitions to foster unity, leadership and impact. AAPD is dedicated to achieving total equality for and full participation of people with disabilities in all aspects of society, recognizing that this is the social justice issue of our time. AAPD James Dickson Vice President for Organizing and Civic Engagement AAPD logo Forward email Safe Unsubscribe This email was sent to jsorozco at gmail.com by vote at aapd.com. Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe T | Privacy Policy . Email Marketing by AAPD | 1629 K Street NW | Suite 950 | Washington | DC | 20006 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 6 21:41:03 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 14:41:03 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <58B6346313A74D408605E500B094DF4E@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <769523.81586.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <58B6346313A74D408605E500B094DF4E@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <7F1A8C8C9B6141149937907FF11F212E@spike> How is it a problem when several of us on this list serve have given you suggestions to deal with this issue? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 6:47 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Thank you. This one seems like a problem since it is so often used in the > job search and career networking arena. I have quite a few friends on > there and would like to keep that career networking tool available to > everyone. > > Should I submit a trouble ticket? > > > Tom Ladis > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William ODonnell" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 6:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > I use it and have also had the same problem. See the next forwarded > message with the reply to my enquiry. > > > --- On Thu, 8/5/10, Tom Ladis wrote: > >> From: Tom Ladis >> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 11:09 AM >> Hello All, >> >> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the >> past through www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in >> the past and been able to get around with only a few >> problems. It appears that they have added real-time >> verification to the login process on top of the normal >> username and password. They do offer the ability to >> have the image that they present for real[-time >> verification, but the text is spoken at the same time that >> JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >> be a barrier and was not there the last time that I logged >> in to my account. >> >> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Tom >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat Aug 7 00:17:00 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 17:17:00 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com> <39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio captcha or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not breaking the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives to solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us to use. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Derek, > > Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites > that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them > to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. > > Are they breaking the law by doing this test? > > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Derek Wilson" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >> and >> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >> >> QUOTE >> >> Security Verification Prompts >> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters from >> an >> image shown on the security verification screen? >> >> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >> members' >> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our community. >> >> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >> from >> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >> various >> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >> password >> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >> a >> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >> tell >> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >> websites. >> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >> typically used by spammers. >> >> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. To >> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the day, >> you might consider the following actions: >> >> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during the >> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >> allow >> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >> >> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you can >> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >> available >> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >> Source: >> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >> faqid=3065 >> >> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >> will >> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >> LinkedIn. >> >> END QUOTE >> >> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get their >> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >> >> Regards, >> Derek >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> Hello Chris and everyone, >> >> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Danielsen" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >> was >> able to log into my own account with no problem. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >> >> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >> >> Mike >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Hello All, >>> >>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>> username >>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>> >>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tom >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >> com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >> bal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >> ail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Sat Aug 7 00:43:36 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 19:43:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Charles and everyone, And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop these CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio captcha or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not breaking the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives to solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us to use. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Derek, > > Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites > that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them > to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. > > Are they breaking the law by doing this test? > > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Derek Wilson" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >> and >> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >> >> QUOTE >> >> Security Verification Prompts >> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters from >> an >> image shown on the security verification screen? >> >> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >> members' >> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our community. >> >> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >> from >> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >> various >> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >> password >> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >> a >> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >> tell >> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >> websites. >> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >> typically used by spammers. >> >> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. To >> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the day, >> you might consider the following actions: >> >> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during the >> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >> allow >> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >> >> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you can >> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >> available >> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >> Source: >> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >> faqid=3065 >> >> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >> will >> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >> LinkedIn. >> >> END QUOTE >> >> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get their >> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >> >> Regards, >> Derek >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> Hello Chris and everyone, >> >> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Danielsen" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >> was >> able to log into my own account with no problem. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >> >> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >> >> Mike >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Hello All, >>> >>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>> username >>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>> >>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tom >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >> com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >> bal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >> ail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat Aug 7 02:58:45 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 19:58:45 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: The use of Web Vizum would work for a deaf blind person because the captcha that is read is then pasted on to the clipboard and copied before sending. I would also assume that a deaf blind person would be using a Braille display to follow the process. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello Charles and everyone, > > And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop > these > CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio > captcha > or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not breaking > the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives > to > solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us to > use. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Derek, >> >> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites >> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them >> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >> >> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >> >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Derek Wilson" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >>> and >>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>> >>> QUOTE >>> >>> Security Verification Prompts >>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>> from >>> an >>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>> >>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>> members' >>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>> community. >>> >>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >>> from >>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>> various >>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>> password >>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >>> a >>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >>> tell >>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>> websites. >>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >>> typically used by spammers. >>> >>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. >>> To >>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>> day, >>> you might consider the following actions: >>> >>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during >>> the >>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>> allow >>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>> >>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you >>> can >>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>> available >>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>> Source: >>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>> faqid=3065 >>> >>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>> will >>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>> LinkedIn. >>> >>> END QUOTE >>> >>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>> their >>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>> >>> Regards, >>> Derek >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>> >>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >>> was >>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>> >>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Hello All, >>>> >>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to >>>> get >>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>> username >>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>>> >>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>> com >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>> bal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From tom at tomladis.com Sat Aug 7 15:28:09 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 10:28:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: Chuck, I understand what you are saying, but some people do not know about these add ons and they may not be affordable to everybody. If the blind and other communities are presented additional challenges, are they not still limiting the opportunities? These are just my opinion based on running into these security tests and being locked out because of them. if their goal is security, then it should only be testing that their is a human on the line, not that you can read or hear or find the right tools. At a minimum, they should be required to make the website equally accessible for everybody, even if that means that they need to put something on the web page that recognizes the screen reader and installs an add on that makes it less painful for someone who is not savvy regarding the tools that may be required to function. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio > captcha or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not > breaking the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using > alternatives to solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out > there for us to use. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Derek, >> >> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites >> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them >> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >> >> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >> >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Derek Wilson" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >>> and >>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>> >>> QUOTE >>> >>> Security Verification Prompts >>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>> from an >>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>> >>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>> members' >>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>> community. >>> >>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >>> from >>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>> various >>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>> password >>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >>> a >>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >>> tell >>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>> websites. >>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >>> typically used by spammers. >>> >>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. >>> To >>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>> day, >>> you might consider the following actions: >>> >>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during >>> the >>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>> allow >>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>> >>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you >>> can >>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>> available >>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>> Source: >>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>> faqid=3065 >>> >>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>> will >>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>> LinkedIn. >>> >>> END QUOTE >>> >>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>> their >>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>> >>> Regards, >>> Derek >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>> >>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >>> was >>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>> >>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Hello All, >>>> >>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to >>>> get >>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>> username >>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>>> >>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>> com >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>> bal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Sat Aug 7 16:39:28 2010 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 12:39:28 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the inaccessible visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio captcha. These were very simple questions that would require a human response, such as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, 5, 14, 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an animal? Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some forms of intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there is no perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns of both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Hello Charles and everyone, And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop these CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio captcha or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not breaking the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives to solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us to use. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Derek, > > Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites > that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them > to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. > > Are they breaking the law by doing this test? > > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Derek Wilson" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >> and >> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >> >> QUOTE >> >> Security Verification Prompts >> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters from >> an >> image shown on the security verification screen? >> >> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >> members' >> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our community. >> >> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >> from >> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >> various >> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >> password >> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >> a >> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >> tell >> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >> websites. >> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >> typically used by spammers. >> >> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. To >> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the day, >> you might consider the following actions: >> >> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during the >> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >> allow >> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >> >> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you can >> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >> available >> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >> Source: >> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >> faqid=3065 >> >> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >> will >> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >> LinkedIn. >> >> END QUOTE >> >> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get their >> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >> >> Regards, >> Derek >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> Hello Chris and everyone, >> >> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Danielsen" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >> was >> able to log into my own account with no problem. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >> >> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >> >> Mike >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Hello All, >>> >>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>> username >>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>> >>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tom >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >> com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >> bal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >> ail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo bal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5348 (20100806) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5348 (20100806) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5348 (20100806) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From dandrews at visi.com Sat Aug 7 20:22:14 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2010 15:22:14 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> <005c01cb3353$eda1fef0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Chuck: The comment below was from one individual, who always makes this kind of comment, and who does not speak for the NFB. I would urge you to use better data to form your opinions. Dave At 03:40 PM 8/4/2010, you wrote: >It is this type of arrogant response that would make me not want to >attend this event even if I had the money or the time. Is the NFB >this unresponsive to the wishes of its members? >Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >1237 P Street >Fresno ca 93721 >559-266-9237 >----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:35 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > > >>Hello Fred and everyone, >> >> With such a long lead time there's no reason why you can't make plans >>now to attend the 2011 Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium in person >>to avail yourself of all it has to offer. Perhaps this is one of the reasons >>why the announcement was made now to allow those wishing to attend to begin >>making their arrangements to be there in the flesh. >> >>Peter Donahue >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wright Lopez" >>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:49 PM >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium >> >> >>With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish >>to raise two issues: >>First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative >>geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site every >>year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to >>participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who are >>advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference >>named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of >>California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 >>symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or >>another Western state. >> >>Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that >>others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this current >>technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this important >>event. >> >>Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar >> >> >>On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: >> >>>Jacobus tenBroe David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From dandrews at visi.com Sat Aug 7 20:24:36 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2010 15:24:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Webinar Tool In-Reply-To: <2efe5.6609fa41.398c2691@aol.com> References: <2efe5.6609fa41.398c2691@aol.com> Message-ID: There is always Talking Communities, and also Accessible Event from Serotek. Dave At 09:37 AM 8/5/2010, you wrote: >Colleagues, > >A recent thread on this list referenced online CLE webinars with an >interactive component and Q&A windows. Does anyone know of a >platform like this >that is Jaws/WindowEyes compatible or 508 compliant? > >I know Adobe Flash and Microsoft Communicator are not. I'd appreciate any >suggestions, especially if your State Bar Association used them >successfully. > >Thanks, >Ronza David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From lists at zufelt.ca Sun Aug 8 01:10:25 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 21:10:25 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <1E528771-FDA5-4F9A-9F9F-C4F03CC95696@zufelt.ca> Although I use Webvisum pretty much daily, and appreciate it, I don't think that it is a legally suitable solution to the problem of CAPTCHAs. I don't see how my ability to access a commercial web-site should be dependent on a free service (which may or may not be available at any given time). That being said, CAPTCHAs are often a necessary tool to filter certain content on high traffic web-sites, where manual filtering would be inefficient or highly expensive. I'm not sure what a better solution would be, as any solution accessible to the blind / deafblind would by necessity be accessible to robots. Logic questions can be useful, but are not always effective at reducing unwanted content from being published to a site, some logic based CAPTCHAs (which aren't actually technically CAPTCHAs, as they are not completely automated), can also cause challenges for persons with cognitive impairments.. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-06, at 10:58 PM, wrote: > The use of Web Vizum would work for a deaf blind person because the captcha that is read is then pasted on to the clipboard and copied before sending. I would also assume that a deaf blind person would be using a Braille display to follow the process. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 5:43 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello Charles and everyone, >> >> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop these >> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio captcha >> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not breaking >> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives to >> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us to >> use. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Derek, >>> >>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites >>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them >>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>> >>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>> >>> >>> Tom >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >>>> and >>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>> >>>> QUOTE >>>> >>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters from >>>> an >>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>> >>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>> members' >>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our community. >>>> >>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >>>> from >>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>> various >>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>> password >>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >>>> a >>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >>>> tell >>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>> websites. >>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >>>> typically used by spammers. >>>> >>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. To >>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the day, >>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>> >>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during the >>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>>> allow >>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>> >>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you can >>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>> available >>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>>> Source: >>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>> faqid=3065 >>>> >>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>>> will >>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>>> LinkedIn. >>>> >>>> END QUOTE >>>> >>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get their >>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Derek >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>> >>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>> >>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>> >>>> Peter Donahue >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>> >>>> >>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >>>> was >>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>> >>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>> >>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello All, >>>>> >>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>> username >>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Tom >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>> com >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>> bal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 8 02:52:32 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 21:52:32 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <001a01cb36a4$c06349e0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Chuck and everyone, Assuming Web Vism can solve the CAPTCHA. I've tried using it on a few sites and was notified that the CAPTCHA cannot be solved. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind The use of Web Vizum would work for a deaf blind person because the captcha that is read is then pasted on to the clipboard and copied before sending. I would also assume that a deaf blind person would be using a Braille display to follow the process. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello Charles and everyone, > > And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop > these > CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio > captcha > or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not breaking > the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives > to > solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us to > use. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Derek, >> >> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites >> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them >> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >> >> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >> >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Derek Wilson" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >>> and >>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>> >>> QUOTE >>> >>> Security Verification Prompts >>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>> from >>> an >>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>> >>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>> members' >>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>> community. >>> >>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >>> from >>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>> various >>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>> password >>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >>> a >>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >>> tell >>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>> websites. >>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >>> typically used by spammers. >>> >>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. >>> To >>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>> day, >>> you might consider the following actions: >>> >>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during >>> the >>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>> allow >>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>> >>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you >>> can >>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>> available >>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>> Source: >>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>> faqid=3065 >>> >>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>> will >>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>> LinkedIn. >>> >>> END QUOTE >>> >>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>> their >>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>> >>> Regards, >>> Derek >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>> >>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >>> was >>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>> >>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Hello All, >>>> >>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to >>>> get >>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>> username >>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>>> >>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>> com >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>> bal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 8 03:25:21 2010 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 20:25:21 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Linkedin Corporation: References: <926270.31481.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com><00c101cb2ffd$6c6ceba0$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: <004701cb36a9$55a3eb50$6601a8c0@server> Hello Dave, Thanks for the response. Its sounds like a useful website. All the best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Linkedin Corporation: > Linked In is a social networking sight that is professionally oriented, > finding business connections, filling jobs etc. > > Dave > > At 10:39 AM 7/30/2010, you wrote: >>Hello William, >>What is the site Linkedin? >>Thanks >>Dennis >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "William ODonnell" >> >>To: ; >>Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 9:10 PM >>Subject: [blindlaw] Linkedin Corporation: >> >> >>>I write the following warning to those who may have not been on the >>>linkedin website lately. >>> >>>Warning to linkedin users: >>>When logging in to your own personal accounts, you will be asked to enter >>>specific security codes after logging in. If you are blind or visually >>>impaired, the audio versions of the caption files are corrupted and do >>>not work. Good luck getting help from customer service. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>blindlaw mailing list >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>blindlaw: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >> >> >>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>signature database 5327 (20100730) __________ >> >>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >>http://www.eset.com >> >> > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From lists at zufelt.ca Sun Aug 8 03:43:35 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 23:43:35 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Good evening, The logic style question, technically not a CAPTCHA since it is not completely automated, can provide a certain level of security, . I do know of some sites, however, where this is not an effective approach at preventing unwanted content from being posted. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-07, at 12:39 PM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the inaccessible > visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio captcha. > These were very simple questions that would require a human response, such > as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, 5, 14, > 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an animal? > Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some forms of > intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there is no > perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns of > both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Peter Donahue > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Hello Charles and everyone, > > And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop these > CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio captcha > or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not breaking > the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives to > solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us to > use. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Derek, >> >> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites >> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them >> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >> >> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >> >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Derek Wilson" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >>> and >>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>> >>> QUOTE >>> >>> Security Verification Prompts >>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters from >>> an >>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>> >>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>> members' >>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our community. >>> >>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >>> from >>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>> various >>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>> password >>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >>> a >>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >>> tell >>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>> websites. >>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >>> typically used by spammers. >>> >>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. To >>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the day, >>> you might consider the following actions: >>> >>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during the >>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>> allow >>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>> >>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you can >>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>> available >>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>> Source: >>> > http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>> faqid=3065 >>> >>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>> will >>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>> LinkedIn. >>> >>> END QUOTE >>> >>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get their >>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>> >>> Regards, >>> Derek >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>> >>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >>> was >>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>> >>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Hello All, >>>> >>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>> username >>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>>> >>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>> com >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>> bal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo > bal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5348 (20100806) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5348 (20100806) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5348 (20100806) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 8 19:57:03 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 12:57:03 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and pasted in to the form field to be entered. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the > inaccessible > visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio captcha. > These were very simple questions that would require a human response, such > as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, 5, > 14, > 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an > animal? > Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some forms > of > intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there is > no > perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns of > both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Peter Donahue > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Hello Charles and everyone, > > And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop > these > CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio > captcha > or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not breaking > the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives > to > solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us to > use. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Derek, >> >> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites >> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them >> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >> >> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >> >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Derek Wilson" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >>> and >>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>> >>> QUOTE >>> >>> Security Verification Prompts >>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>> from >>> an >>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>> >>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>> members' >>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>> community. >>> >>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >>> from >>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>> various >>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>> password >>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >>> a >>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >>> tell >>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>> websites. >>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >>> typically used by spammers. >>> >>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. >>> To >>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>> day, >>> you might consider the following actions: >>> >>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during >>> the >>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>> allow >>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>> >>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you >>> can >>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>> available >>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>> Source: >>> > http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>> faqid=3065 >>> >>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>> will >>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>> LinkedIn. >>> >>> END QUOTE >>> >>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>> their >>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>> >>> Regards, >>> Derek >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>> >>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >>> was >>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>> >>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Hello All, >>>> >>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to >>>> get >>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>> username >>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>>> >>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>> com >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>> bal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo > bal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5348 (20100806) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5348 (20100806) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5348 (20100806) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From tom at tomladis.com Mon Aug 9 17:54:28 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 12:54:28 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an accessibility issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete my order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an account. They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, even with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text read out loud. I expect that this will become more and more popular among the developers and more and more of a problem for blind people. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >pasted in to the form field to be entered. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Danielsen" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >> inaccessible >> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio captcha. >> These were very simple questions that would require a human response, >> such >> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, 5, >> 14, >> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >> animal? >> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some forms >> of >> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there is >> no >> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns of >> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> Hello Charles and everyone, >> >> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop >> these >> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >> captcha >> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >> breaking >> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives >> to >> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us >> to >> use. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Derek, >>> >>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites >>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of >>> them >>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>> >>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>> >>> >>> Tom >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >>>> and >>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>> >>>> QUOTE >>>> >>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>>> from >>>> an >>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>> >>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>> members' >>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>> community. >>>> >>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >>>> from >>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>> various >>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>> password >>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented >>>> in >>>> a >>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >>>> tell >>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>> websites. >>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site >>>> from >>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >>>> typically used by spammers. >>>> >>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. >>>> To >>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>>> day, >>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>> >>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during >>>> the >>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>>> allow >>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>> >>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you >>>> can >>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>> available >>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>>> Source: >>>> >> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>> faqid=3065 >>>> >>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>>> will >>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>>> LinkedIn. >>>> >>>> END QUOTE >>>> >>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>>> their >>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Derek >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>> >>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>> >>>> Peter Donahue >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >>>> was >>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>> >>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello All, >>>>> >>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>> through >>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to >>>>> get >>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>> username >>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the >>>>> same >>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>> account. >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Tom >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>> com >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>> bal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >> bal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >> com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From lists at zufelt.ca Mon Aug 9 18:02:16 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 14:02:16 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <2A1E48B9-C6B0-4462-A943-9DD097E1B8C1@zufelt.ca> These types of CAPTCHA scenarios baffle me. At the point that someone is verifying their identity with at least a billing address and payment method I think that it is safe to assume that they are human and not a computer. The overuse of CAPTCHAs where they make no sense, like on inflight wifi connections, is certainly an expansion of the standard CAPTCHA problem. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-09, at 1:54 PM, Tom Ladis wrote: > Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an accessibility issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete my order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an account. They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, even with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text read out loud. > > I expect that this will become more and more popular among the developers and more and more of a problem for blind people. > > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and pasted in to the form field to be entered. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the inaccessible >>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio captcha. >>> These were very simple questions that would require a human response, such >>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, 5, 14, >>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an animal? >>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some forms of >>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there is no >>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns of >>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>> >>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop these >>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio captcha >>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not breaking >>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives to >>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us to >>> use. >>> Chuck >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Derek, >>>> >>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites >>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them >>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>> >>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>> >>>> >>>> Tom >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >>>>> and >>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>> >>>>> QUOTE >>>>> >>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters from >>>>> an >>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>> >>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>>> members' >>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our community. >>>>> >>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >>>>> from >>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>>> various >>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>> password >>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >>>>> a >>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >>>>> tell >>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>> websites. >>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>> >>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. To >>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the day, >>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during the >>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>>>> allow >>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>> >>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you can >>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>> available >>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>>>> Source: >>>>> >>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>> >>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>>>> will >>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>> >>>>> END QUOTE >>>>> >>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get their >>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Derek >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>> >>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>> >>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>> >>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >>>>> was >>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>> >>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>> >>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>> >>>>> Mike >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>> >>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>> username >>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>> bal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>> al.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>> bal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>> com >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Aug 9 19:26:16 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 15:26:16 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> <83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13> <000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com> <39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, use a verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and fill in the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a verbal code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an > accessibility > issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete my > order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an account. > They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, even > with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text read > out loud. > > I expect that this will become more and more popular among the developers > and more and more of a problem for blind people. > > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Danielsen" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>> inaccessible >>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio captcha. >>> These were very simple questions that would require a human response, >>> such >>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, 5, >>> 14, >>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>> animal? >>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>> forms >>> of >>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there is >>> no >>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns >>> of >>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>> >>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop >>> these >>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>> captcha >>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>> breaking >>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>> alternatives >>> to >>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us >>> to >>> use. >>> Chuck >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Derek, >>>> >>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>> sites >>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of >>>> them >>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>> >>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>> >>>> >>>> Tom >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >>>>> and >>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>> >>>>> QUOTE >>>>> >>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>>>> from >>>>> an >>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>> >>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>>> members' >>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>> community. >>>>> >>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>> safe >>>>> from >>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>>> various >>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>> password >>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented >>>>> in >>>>> a >>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test >>>>> to >>>>> tell >>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>> websites. >>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site >>>>> from >>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>> >>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. >>>>> To >>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>>>> day, >>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>> section.) >>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during >>>>> the >>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>>>> allow >>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>> >>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you >>>>> can >>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>> available >>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>>>> Source: >>>>> >>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>> >>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>> This >>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>>>> will >>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>> >>>>> END QUOTE >>>>> >>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>>>> their >>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Derek >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>> >>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>> >>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >>>>> was >>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>> >>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>> >>>>> Mike >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>> >>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>> through >>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to >>>>>> get >>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>> username >>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the >>>>>> same >>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>> account. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>> bal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>> al.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>> bal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>> com >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 02:35:00 -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 02:35:00 From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Mon Aug 9 22:15:53 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 16:15:53 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] blind lawyer in Maryland who does family law Message-ID: <2417DAE1DEA34FD6AC28E7927819D898@labarre> Greetings, I have gotten a request for a blind lawyer who does family law in Maryland. If you are such a person or know of such a person/persons, please write me off list at the info below. Regards, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From JFreeh at nfb.org Tue Aug 10 07:42:21 2010 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 02:42:21 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of Blind Students Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of Blind Students Calls for Equal Access to Information and Technology in America’s Universities Baltimore, Maryland (August 9, 2010): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB) responded today to recent attacks on the right of blind students to have equal access to technologies used by America’s universities and to the textbooks and course materials offered by institutions of higher learning. The NFB and the United States Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division, have come under attack in recent days for reaching settlements with universities requiring that the universities refrain from purchasing any e-book technology that is not fully accessible to the blind. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: “Blind students must have access to the same textbooks and course materials and the same technology to read them as all other students. This is not only a matter of fairness to blind students but a requirement of federal law. For this reason, we applaud the United States Department of Justice, acting at our request and pursuant to its mandate to enforce this nation’s disability rights laws, for reaching landmark settlements with colleges and universities ensuring that e-book technologies deployed by these institutions will be accessible to all their students. With the announcement of a new accessible Amazon Kindle, the recent introduction of the Apple iPad, and the promise of future accessible e-book products­many of which would not have been made accessible without our advocacy efforts­colleges and universities will find it increasingly easy to procure e-book technology that benefits everyone. These settlements benefit not only blind students, who will now have access to the same books at the same time and at the same price as their sighted peers, but also institutions of higher learning, which will no longer incur the administrative burden of producing or procuring accessible books through separate and inferior methods. To the extent that inaccessible e-book technology remains a barrier to the equal education of the blind, however, the National Federation of the Blind will continue to fight for the educational and legal rights of blind students, and we will not hesitate to call upon the Department of Justice and other government authorities to assist us in doing so when necessary.” ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people’s lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. From dwilson.lists at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 04:17:32 2010 From: dwilson.lists at gmail.com (Derek Wilson) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 13:17:32 +0900 Subject: [blindlaw] National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of Blind Students In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nice to know someone understands that we cannot hope to achieve a more egalitarian society without greater equality of opportunity. Education is square one. Anybody else feel like technology has put us on a proverbial treadmill in advancing such equality? Are we moving hard or hardly moving... or both? DW On 8/10/10, Freeh, Jessica wrote: > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > > CONTACT: > > Chris Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > National Federation of the Blind > > (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 > > (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > > cdanielsen at nfb.org > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of Blind Students > > > > > > Calls for Equal Access to Information and Technology in America’s > Universities > > > > Baltimore, Maryland (August 9, 2010): The > National Federation of the Blind (NFB) responded > today to recent attacks on the right of blind > students to have equal access to technologies > used by America’s universities and to the > textbooks and course materials offered by > institutions of higher learning. The NFB and the > United States Department of Justice, Civil Rights > Division, have come under attack in recent days > for reaching settlements with universities > requiring that the universities refrain from > purchasing any e-book technology that is not fully accessible to the blind. > > > > Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National > Federation of the Blind, said: “Blind students > must have access to the same textbooks and course > materials and the same technology to read them as > all other students. This is not only a matter of > fairness to blind students but a requirement of > federal law. For this reason, we applaud the > United States Department of Justice, acting at > our request and pursuant to its mandate to > enforce this nation’s disability rights laws, for > reaching landmark settlements with colleges and > universities ensuring that e-book technologies > deployed by these institutions will be accessible > to all their students. With the announcement of > a new accessible Amazon Kindle, the recent > introduction of the Apple iPad, and the promise > of future accessible e-book products­many of > which would not have been made accessible without > our advocacy efforts­colleges and universities > will find it increasingly easy to procure e-book > technology that benefits everyone. These > settlements benefit not only blind students, who > will now have access to the same books at the > same time and at the same price as their sighted > peers, but also institutions of higher learning, > which will no longer incur the administrative > burden of producing or procuring accessible books > through separate and inferior methods. To the > extent that inaccessible e-book technology > remains a barrier to the equal education of the > blind, however, the National Federation of the > Blind will continue to fight for the educational > and legal rights of blind students, and we will > not hesitate to call upon the Department of > Justice and other government authorities to > assist us in doing so when necessary.” > > > > > > ### > > > > About the National Federation of the Blind > > With more than 50,000 members, the National > Federation of the Blind is the largest and most > influential membership organization of blind > people in the "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" > />United States. The NFB improves blind people’s > lives through advocacy, education, research, > technology, and programs encouraging independence > and self-confidence. It is the leading force in > the blindness field today and the voice of the > nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened > the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan > Institute, the first research and training center > in the United States for the blind led by the blind. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gmail.com > From kolby12091988 at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 04:43:48 2010 From: kolby12091988 at gmail.com (Kolby) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:43:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Law School Experiences Message-ID: <003601cb390f$cd299c20$677cd460$@com> Hello Everyone, I am a totally blind college student, and I am pursuing my undergraduate degree in Communication Studies. I am considering attending law school after I graduate in two years' time. I would like to know about all of your law school experiences if you would not mind sharing them. What law school did you attend? What accommodations did you request? What accommodations were you provided with? What challenges did you encounter, and how did you resolve said challenges? How available and/or accessible are law school materials? Would any of you be willing to talk with me via telephone or skype? Are there resources available on the internet that I could begin exploring? Thank you in advance for any feedback on my questions, kolby From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Aug 11 15:49:56 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:49:56 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: KCWWL Announcement Law Student Work Study position- need your help! Message-ID: From: Noel Nightingale [mailto:nnightingale at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:40 PM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: FW: KCWWL Announcement Law Student Work Study position- need your help! From: KCWWL-Announce at v2.listbox.com [mailto:KCWWL-Announce at v2.listbox.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 9:13 AM To: KCWWL-Announce Subject: KCWWL Announcement Law Student Work Study position- need your help! Dear friends and colleagues! Do you know a law student who may be interested in a position with the truancy unit at Pierce County Juvenile Court? See below for details- this is a copy of the posting that will go on the law school work-study directory. Please direct any candidates to Meg McCann at the contact info below. Thank you!! Organization: Pierce County Juvenile Court Contact person: Meg McCann, Attorney Pierce County Juvenile Court 5501 6th Ave Tacoma, WA 98406 253.798.7984 mmccann at co.pierce.wa.us Job description: Represent Pierce County School Districts in truancy proceedings: review truancy petitions for filing; appear in court on the truancy docket; interview and prepare witnesses for contested fact-finding hearings; and present evidence and witnesses at contested hearings. Hours/schedule: Tuesdays 8:30 until 2 (flexible); and Thursdays 8:30 until 3:30 p.m. Must be able to start around September 1st. Pay: $15 an hour, work study eligibility required (volunteers also welcomed!) Qualifications: (i.e. Rule 9, 2L, etc.) 2L and 3L, interest in litigation/social justice/working with youth and families Application materials: Resume, cover letter, brief writing sample. _____________________________________________________________ IMPORTANT: Attorney-Client Privilege- Emails to clients of this office presumptively and normally contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Emails to non-clients are normally confidential and may be privileged. The use, distribution, transmittal or re-transmittal by an unintended recipient of any communication is prohibited without our express approval in writing or by email. Any use, distribution, transmittal or re-transmittal by persons who are not intended recipients of this email may be a violation of law and is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender and delete all copies. ________________________________ Please visit KCWWL's webpage for more information about events of interest to our members: http://www.kcwwl.org To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=6521956&id_secret=6521956-4fa59522 Archives [cid:~WRD000.jpg] | Unsubscribe Now [cid:~WRD000.jpg] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ~WRD000.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: ~WRD000.jpg URL: From tom at tomladis.com Wed Aug 11 15:58:48 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:58:48 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> Message-ID: My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is a jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS announces the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the string a problem either way. Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not know how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about and using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, I encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out loud. This is a bigger barrier. These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in this area. Thanks, Tom Ladis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this > discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, use a > verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and fill > in > the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the > online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a > verbal > code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >> accessibility >> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete my >> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an account. >> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >> even >> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >> read >> out loud. >> >> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the developers >> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >> >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>> Chuck >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>> inaccessible >>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>> captcha. >>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human response, >>>> such >>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, >>>> 5, >>>> 14, >>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>> animal? >>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>> forms >>>> of >>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there >>>> is >>>> no >>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns >>>> of >>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>> >>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop >>>> these >>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>> >>>> Peter Donahue >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>> captcha >>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>> breaking >>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>> alternatives >>>> to >>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us >>>> to >>>> use. >>>> Chuck >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Derek, >>>>> >>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>> sites >>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of >>>>> them >>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>> >>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tom >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>> captcha >>>>>> and >>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>> >>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>> >>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>>>>> from >>>>>> an >>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>> >>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>>>> members' >>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>> community. >>>>>> >>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>> safe >>>>>> from >>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>>>> various >>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>> password >>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented >>>>>> in >>>>>> a >>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test >>>>>> to >>>>>> tell >>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>> websites. >>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site >>>>>> from >>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>> technique >>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>> >>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>> prompts. >>>>>> To >>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>>>>> day, >>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>> section.) >>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during >>>>>> the >>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>>>>> allow >>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We >>>>>> do >>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you >>>>>> can >>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>> available >>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>>>>> Source: >>>>>> >>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>> >>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>> This >>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>>>>> will >>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>> >>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>> >>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>>>>> their >>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Derek >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>> >>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but >>>>>> I >>>>>> was >>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>> >>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>> through >>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to >>>>>>> get >>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>> username >>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the >>>>>>> same >>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>> account. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature >>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature >>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>> bal.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>> al.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>> bal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>> com >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 > 02:35:00 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 02:35:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Wed Aug 11 16:46:29 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:46:29 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> <83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13> <000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com> <39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> Message-ID: <0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after getting the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a couple of times. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is a > jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS announces > the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the > string a problem either way. > > Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not > know > how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about > and > using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, I > encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out > loud. This is a bigger barrier. > > These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating > procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in > this area. > > > Thanks, > Tom Ladis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, use >> a >> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and fill >> in >> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >> verbal >> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>> accessibility >>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete my >>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an account. >>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>> even >>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>> read >>> out loud. >>> >>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>> developers >>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>> >>> >>> Tom >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>> Chuck >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>> inaccessible >>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>> captcha. >>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human response, >>>>> such >>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, >>>>> 5, >>>>> 14, >>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>>> animal? >>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>> forms >>>>> of >>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there >>>>> is >>>>> no >>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns >>>>> of >>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>> >>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop >>>>> these >>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>> >>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>>> captcha >>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>> breaking >>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>> alternatives >>>>> to >>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for >>>>> us >>>>> to >>>>> use. >>>>> Chuck >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Derek, >>>>>> >>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>> sites >>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of >>>>>> them >>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>>>>> members' >>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>> community. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>>> safe >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>>>>> various >>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>> password >>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>> presented >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> tell >>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>> technique >>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>> To >>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>>>>>> day, >>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>> during >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> allow >>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>> available >>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>> page. >>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>> This >>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>> issue >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed >>>>>>> by >>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the >>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>> al.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>> bal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >> 02:35:00 >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 > 02:35:00 > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 02:34:00 -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 02:34:00 From graham.hardy at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 19:04:21 2010 From: graham.hardy at gmail.com (Graham Hardy) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:04:21 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Law School Experiences In-Reply-To: <003601cb390f$cd299c20$677cd460$@com> References: <003601cb390f$cd299c20$677cd460$@com> Message-ID: <9DE686BBA765477DA1B1D249B4D79479@Desktop> Kolby, I might be able to help you a lot. I'm about to start law school this September at the University of British Columbia. It won't matter if you're intending to go to an American school because most things about experiences at law school are similar, from what I've read, between Canada and the U.S. I'm most likely going to start an official blog on the Faculty's website about my experiences as a first-year law student, which, although it won't have much to do with blindness, you may find particularly interesting to read along with other people who blog about their experiences. It's not set up yet, but if you're interested I'll let you know when it goes live. In the mean time, you might find it helpful to research law schools and their admissions processes. You'll find a wealth of information on the internet. I made the mistake of being interested in only one school, UBC. I'm fairly sure that most people apply to at least two, because of how competitive the admissions can be and the likelihood of not getting into one place. You might also want to consider factors that are important to you in the school you ultimately choose to attend. I am fairly tight on money, so tuition was a big concern for me, though for some reason I didn't discover I'm at one of the cheapest places until after being admitted. I also didn't want to have to move away from family and friends. But research areas and course selections are also rather important. From what I hear, U.S. law schools have a huge aspect of rank to them, so that Harvard is supposed to be highly sought after, despite its tuition. But apart from all this, some law schools are much harder to get into than others and some have very different admissions processes, which may also be a consideration. The only challenge I've had so far is the LSAT, which all applicants to law schools approved by the American Bar Association and the similar bar associations in some other countries must write in order to be ranked on their excellence in certain abilities deemed essential for law students, such as critical thinking. There are different ways of tackling that test, mainly about conquering the accomodations restrictions and the problematic accessibility of most preparation materials. The one that I pursued might be a bit belittling to some blind people. My university has a special discressionary category for applicants with certain challenges, and so I applied in this category and told them specifically about my many challenges with this test and how there were other things about me that were far more indicative, I felt, of how I could be in their program. I would, however, suggest that you give the test a try. If you can afford a tutor, for instance, you might find that doing really well would help you in the longrun. I know I would have felt better about getting in in the regular category with a competitive LSAT score and what not. As to accomodations. I suspect it will be similar to whatever you do now, provided you stay at the same university, or similar otherwise. UBC, where I also did an undergraduate degree, has a pretty good system. They have a resource centre where you hand in your textbooks and they give you e-text or audio, depending on what you want. I've told them I don't want any PDF files and that I need Microsoft Word files, and they've been doing that for me. They also have accomodations processes for exams, where they schedule you to write at the same time as your class in a room in their offices with a computer. I get a laptop with JAWS and a refreshable braille display. (I conveniently got them to agree to putting a braille display into my accomodations before they realised they needed to buy one.) The Faculty of Law are also quite accomodating. I asked them for my professors' contact information because I wanted to find the textbooks to hand in to be transcribed before needing them in September, but they said that normally they don't have the schedules ready till the very first day of classes. This wasn't going to work for me, as you might imagine, so I calmly explained why it was important and they got my schedule organised a few weeks ago. That's about it. I know there are internet resources to be used, but I don't know much about them. I also know there are domestic and international law journals, most of which have funny abbreviated names like D.L.R. and S.C.R., which contain case law. I have no idea of how judges, lawyers and law students can possibly go through what seems like millions upon millions of large volumes in print. It might just be my ignorance. If you do want to, I can certainly talk with you on Skype or something similar, as long as I can get it set up properly. Let me know if I can help any further. All very best, Graham -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kolby Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2010 9:44 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Law School Experiences Hello Everyone, I am a totally blind college student, and I am pursuing my undergraduate degree in Communication Studies. I am considering attending law school after I graduate in two years' time. I would like to know about all of your law school experiences if you would not mind sharing them. What law school did you attend? What accommodations did you request? What accommodations were you provided with? What challenges did you encounter, and how did you resolve said challenges? How available and/or accessible are law school materials? Would any of you be willing to talk with me via telephone or skype? Are there resources available on the internet that I could begin exploring? Thank you in advance for any feedback on my questions, kolby _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/graham.hardy%40gma il.com From agtolentino at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 19:28:05 2010 From: agtolentino at gmail.com (Aser Tolentino) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:28:05 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Law School Experiences In-Reply-To: <9DE686BBA765477DA1B1D249B4D79479@Desktop> References: <003601cb390f$cd299c20$677cd460$@com> <9DE686BBA765477DA1B1D249B4D79479@Desktop> Message-ID: Hi Kolby, I graduated from UC Davis School of Law in May and have since taken the CA bar exam. If you have specific questions or would just like to chat, please feel free to contact me off list. Aser On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Graham Hardy wrote: > Kolby, > > I might be able to help you a lot. I'm about to start law school this > September at the University of British Columbia. It won't matter if you're > intending to go to an American school because most things about experiences > at law school are similar, from what I've read, between Canada and the U.S. > > I'm most likely going to start an official blog on the Faculty's website > about my experiences as a first-year law student, which, although it won't > have much to do with blindness, you may find particularly interesting to > read along with other people who blog about their experiences. It's not set > up yet, but if you're interested I'll let you know when it goes live. > > In the mean time, you might find it helpful to research law schools and > their admissions processes. You'll find a wealth of information on the > internet. I made the mistake of being interested in only one school, UBC. > I'm fairly sure that most people apply to at least two, because of how > competitive the admissions can be and the likelihood of not getting into > one > place. You might also want to consider factors that are important to you in > the school you ultimately choose to attend. I am fairly tight on money, so > tuition was a big concern for me, though for some reason I didn't discover > I'm at one of the cheapest places until after being admitted. I also didn't > want to have to move away from family and friends. But research areas and > course selections are also rather important. From what I hear, U.S. law > schools have a huge aspect of rank to them, so that Harvard is supposed to > be highly sought after, despite its tuition. But apart from all this, some > law schools are much harder to get into than others and some have very > different admissions processes, which may also be a consideration. > > The only challenge I've had so far is the LSAT, which all applicants to law > schools approved by the American Bar Association and the similar bar > associations in some other countries must write in order to be ranked on > their excellence in certain abilities deemed essential for law students, > such as critical thinking. There are different ways of tackling that test, > mainly about conquering the accomodations restrictions and the problematic > accessibility of most preparation materials. The one that I pursued might > be > a bit belittling to some blind people. My university has a special > discressionary category for applicants with certain challenges, and so I > applied in this category and told them specifically about my many > challenges > with this test and how there were other things about me that were far more > indicative, I felt, of how I could be in their program. I would, however, > suggest that you give the test a try. If you can afford a tutor, for > instance, you might find that doing really well would help you in the > longrun. I know I would have felt better about getting in in the regular > category with a competitive LSAT score and what not. > > As to accomodations. I suspect it will be similar to whatever you do now, > provided you stay at the same university, or similar otherwise. UBC, where > I > also did an undergraduate degree, has a pretty good system. They have a > resource centre where you hand in your textbooks and they give you e-text > or > audio, depending on what you want. I've told them I don't want any PDF > files > and that I need Microsoft Word files, and they've been doing that for me. > They also have accomodations processes for exams, where they schedule you > to > write at the same time as your class in a room in their offices with a > computer. I get a laptop with JAWS and a refreshable braille display. (I > conveniently got them to agree to putting a braille display into my > accomodations before they realised they needed to buy one.) The Faculty of > Law are also quite accomodating. I asked them for my professors' contact > information because I wanted to find the textbooks to hand in to be > transcribed before needing them in September, but they said that normally > they don't have the schedules ready till the very first day of classes. > This > wasn't going to work for me, as you might imagine, so I calmly explained > why > it was important and they got my schedule organised a few weeks ago. > > That's about it. I know there are internet resources to be used, but I > don't > know much about them. I also know there are domestic and international law > journals, most of which have funny abbreviated names like D.L.R. and > S.C.R., > which contain case law. I have no idea of how judges, lawyers and law > students can possibly go through what seems like millions upon millions of > large volumes in print. It might just be my ignorance. > > If you do want to, I can certainly talk with you on Skype or something > similar, as long as I can get it set up properly. Let me know if I can help > any further. > > All very best, > Graham > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Kolby > Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2010 9:44 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] Law School Experiences > > Hello Everyone, > I am a totally blind college student, and I am pursuing my undergraduate > degree in Communication Studies. I am considering attending law school > after > I graduate in two years' time. I would like to know about all of your law > school experiences if you would not mind sharing them. What law school did > you attend? What accommodations did you request? What accommodations were > you provided with? What challenges did you encounter, and how did you > resolve said challenges? How available and/or accessible are law school > materials? Would any of you be willing to talk with me via telephone or > skype? Are there resources available on the internet that I could begin > exploring? > Thank you in advance for any feedback on my questions, kolby > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/graham.hardy%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com > From devinenora at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 19:39:46 2010 From: devinenora at gmail.com (Nora Devine) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:39:46 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Law School Experiences In-Reply-To: <003601cb390f$cd299c20$677cd460$@com> References: <003601cb390f$cd299c20$677cd460$@com> Message-ID: Hi Kolby! I am an individual with low vision currently attending law school at the University of San Francisco. I recommend you join the National Association of Law Students with Disabilities. Go to http://www.nalswd.org/ for more information and to become a member. Law students with disabilities are organizing to make law school accessible for all individuals with disabilities. NALSWD will also be publishing recommendations for requesting accommodations on the LSAT in the next few week. Check it out at http://www.nalswd.org/resources.php?option=3! I'd be happy to discuss more with you via phone if you wish. I am also interested to learn about the experiences of other students who are blind or have low vision. -Problems encountered in law school I use magnification software and screen readers for all assignments and readings. The biggest problems I have are with text books and legal research websites like Lexisnexis and Westlaw. Law text books often include massive footnotes that span pages. When my books are converted to e-text the footnotes run into the main text and make the book extremely hard to follow. I am always searching for the end of the footnote or the beginning of the same footnote on the following page. It's very hard to distinguish and navigate the book's main text and the footnotes. This is frustrating and I hope with the dawn of e-text books for all this problem with be solved. Lexisnexis and Westlaw website are difficult to use due to the screen layouts. The layouts have multiple headers and sidebars that usually cannot be collapsed. This presents a problem for me sometimes when I magnify the screen as it limits the size of the window containing the information I need to read or work with. I have to use various work-arounds (e.g. copying the relevant information into Word, downloading the information when possible etc.) to be able to read and work with information presented on these websites. This is not ideal as it can sometimes be time consuming. Westlaw does have a separate text-only website that doesn't have this screen layout problem and is great for basic research, but its features are nothing compared to Westlaw's regular website. If anyone has ideas on how to get around these problem, I'd appreciate hearing from you! These website issues may not be problems for you though. I hear Lexisnexis and Westlaw websites work well with JAWS. Wish you well! and feel free to contact me anytime! Best Regards, Nora Devine Juris Doctor Candidate 2012 University of San Francisco School of Law Tel: 510-508-4209 devinenora at gmail.com 2010/8/10 Kolby > Hello Everyone, > I am a totally blind college student, and I am pursuing my undergraduate > degree in Communication Studies. I am considering attending law school > after > I graduate in two years' time. I would like to know about all of your law > school experiences if you would not mind sharing them. What law school did > you attend? What accommodations did you request? What accommodations were > you provided with? What challenges did you encounter, and how did you > resolve said challenges? How available and/or accessible are law school > materials? Would any of you be willing to talk with me via telephone or > skype? Are there resources available on the internet that I could begin > exploring? > Thank you in advance for any feedback on my questions, > kolby > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/devinenora%40gmail.com > > -- > Best Regards, > > Nora Devine > Juris Doctor Candidate 2012 > University of San Francisco School of Law > Tel: 510-508-4209 > devinenora at gmail.com > > > From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Aug 11 20:13:38 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 13:13:38 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Law School Experiences In-Reply-To: References: <003601cb390f$cd299c20$677cd460$@com> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E3C7@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Just a follow-up on the computer research stuff, that law professors might not know to tell you about - as far as Westlaw, I have found the text -only version to be much easier to use with my magnification /narration software, through "on the job" experience. (I was only highly myopic in law school, just began losing vision altogether in the last 2 years). It is a pretty basic site, but there is a new program on the horizon for which I participated in a test evaluation ("Next"). It is even easier to use with adaptive equipment. If your school has access to it, you will be very pleasantly surprised. It does still have glitches, but they have a team dedicated to listening to users of all varieties of adaptive equipment and modifying the product to meet their needs and concerns. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nora Devine Sent: Wednesday, 11 August, 2010 12:40 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Law School Experiences Hi Kolby! I am an individual with low vision currently attending law school at the University of San Francisco. I recommend you join the National Association of Law Students with Disabilities. Go to http://www.nalswd.org/ for more information and to become a member. Law students with disabilities are organizing to make law school accessible for all individuals with disabilities. NALSWD will also be publishing recommendations for requesting accommodations on the LSAT in the next few week. Check it out at http://www.nalswd.org/resources.php?option=3! I'd be happy to discuss more with you via phone if you wish. I am also interested to learn about the experiences of other students who are blind or have low vision. -Problems encountered in law school I use magnification software and screen readers for all assignments and readings. The biggest problems I have are with text books and legal research websites like Lexisnexis and Westlaw. Law text books often include massive footnotes that span pages. When my books are converted to e-text the footnotes run into the main text and make the book extremely hard to follow. I am always searching for the end of the footnote or the beginning of the same footnote on the following page. It's very hard to distinguish and navigate the book's main text and the footnotes. This is frustrating and I hope with the dawn of e-text books for all this problem with be solved. Lexisnexis and Westlaw website are difficult to use due to the screen layouts. The layouts have multiple headers and sidebars that usually cannot be collapsed. This presents a problem for me sometimes when I magnify the screen as it limits the size of the window containing the information I need to read or work with. I have to use various work-arounds (e.g. copying the relevant information into Word, downloading the information when possible etc.) to be able to read and work with information presented on these websites. This is not ideal as it can sometimes be time consuming. Westlaw does have a separate text-only website that doesn't have this screen layout problem and is great for basic research, but its features are nothing compared to Westlaw's regular website. If anyone has ideas on how to get around these problem, I'd appreciate hearing from you! These website issues may not be problems for you though. I hear Lexisnexis and Westlaw websites work well with JAWS. Wish you well! and feel free to contact me anytime! Best Regards, Nora Devine Juris Doctor Candidate 2012 University of San Francisco School of Law Tel: 510-508-4209 devinenora at gmail.com 2010/8/10 Kolby > Hello Everyone, > I am a totally blind college student, and I am pursuing my undergraduate > degree in Communication Studies. I am considering attending law school > after > I graduate in two years' time. I would like to know about all of your law > school experiences if you would not mind sharing them. What law school did > you attend? What accommodations did you request? What accommodations were > you provided with? What challenges did you encounter, and how did you > resolve said challenges? How available and/or accessible are law school > materials? Would any of you be willing to talk with me via telephone or > skype? Are there resources available on the internet that I could begin > exploring? > Thank you in advance for any feedback on my questions, > kolby > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/devinenora%40g mail.com > > -- > Best Regards, > > Nora Devine > Juris Doctor Candidate 2012 > University of San Francisco School of Law > Tel: 510-508-4209 > devinenora at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Wed Aug 11 22:46:48 2010 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 18:46:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> <0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC> Message-ID: <40C9A99D661943458493579FA51B9B1E@Scorpio13> I finally encountered the LinkedIn barrier. I clicked on the audio link, and Windows Media Player opened, but I got an error message saying that Windows Media Player could not play the file. The error message said that either the file or the codec with which it was compressed were not supported. Did anyone else have this problem? This was on my work PC; on my Netbook I am able to log in to the service automatically, because I guess at some point I must have allowed LinkedIn to "remember" me. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 12:46 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after getting the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a couple of times. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is a > jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS announces > the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the > string a problem either way. > > Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not > know > how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about > and > using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, I > encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out > loud. This is a bigger barrier. > > These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating > procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in > this area. > > > Thanks, > Tom Ladis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, use >> a >> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and fill >> in >> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >> verbal >> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>> accessibility >>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete my >>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an account. >>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>> even >>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>> read >>> out loud. >>> >>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>> developers >>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>> >>> >>> Tom >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>> Chuck >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>> inaccessible >>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>> captcha. >>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human response, >>>>> such >>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, >>>>> 5, >>>>> 14, >>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>>> animal? >>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>> forms >>>>> of >>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there >>>>> is >>>>> no >>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns >>>>> of >>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>> >>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop >>>>> these >>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>> >>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>>> captcha >>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>> breaking >>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>> alternatives >>>>> to >>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for >>>>> us >>>>> to >>>>> use. >>>>> Chuck >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Derek, >>>>>> >>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>> sites >>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of >>>>>> them >>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>>>>> members' >>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>> community. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>>> safe >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>>>>> various >>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>> password >>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>> presented >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> tell >>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>> technique >>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>> To >>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>>>>>> day, >>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>> during >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> allow >>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>> available >>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>> page. >>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>> This >>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>> issue >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed >>>>>>> by >>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the >>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>> al.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>> bal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >> 02:35:00 >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 > 02:35:00 > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 02:34:00 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5359 (20100811) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5359 (20100811) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5359 (20100811) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 11 23:04:22 2010 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 16:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <40C9A99D661943458493579FA51B9B1E@Scorpio13> Message-ID: <852089.75022.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Interestingly enough, I tried this yesterday and instead of the WP comeing up with the same error you are referencing, The audio file played with in a format that was easy to hear. --- On Wed, 8/11/10, Chris Danielsen wrote: > From: Chris Danielsen > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 6:46 PM > I finally encountered the LinkedIn > barrier. I clicked on the audio link, and > Windows Media Player opened, but I got an error message > saying that Windows > Media Player could not play the file. The error message > said that either the > file or the codec with which it was compressed were not > supported. Did > anyone else have this problem? This was on my work PC; on > my Netbook I am > able to log in to the service automatically, because I > guess at some point I > must have allowed LinkedIn to "remember" me. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 12:46 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible > To The Blind > > I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control > key after getting > the link.  I can usually silence window eyes.  > Maybe need to repeat it a > couple of times. > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible > To The Blind > > > > My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set > up not.  There is a > > jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, > but JAWS announces > > the new window opening at the same time, which makes > the reading of the > > string a problem either way. > > > > Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to > those who do not > > know > > how to work around screen readers talking at the same > time or know about > > and > > using a third party tool to read the string.  In > the case of Home Depot, I > > encountered a screen where there was no link to have > the string read out > > loud.  This is a bigger barrier. > > > > These barriers are going to get worse and become > standard operating > > procedure for web developers unless something is done > to cause change in > > this area. > > > > > > Thanks, > > Tom Ladis > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made > Inaccessible To The Blind > > > > > >> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head.  > I've been following this > >> discussion closely.  My credit union, there > online banking services, use > >> a > >> verbal code link.  I'm able to click on a > link for a verbal code and fill > >> in > >> the box.  after several discussions with > them, the company running the > >> online banking service was able to create this > link which gives you a > >> verbal > >> code.  Is this the problem with LinkedIn? > >> > >> Steve > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Tom Ladis" > >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made > Inaccessible To The Blind > >> > >> > >>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress > address this as an > >>> accessibility > >>> issue?  I went to the Home Depot website > and was not able to complete my > >>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping > and creating an account. > >>> They are also presenting some garbled text > that I could not get past, > >>> even > >>> with a handheld CCTV.  They did not even > offer a way to have the text > >>> read > >>> out loud. > >>> > >>> I expect that this will become more and more > popular among the > >>> developers > >>> and more and more of a problem for blind > people. > >>> > >>> > >>> Tom > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: > >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made > Inaccessible To The Blind > >>> > >>> > >>>>I have visited sites where that form of > question was used and it was > >>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. > There are also other sites > >>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can > be selected and copied and > >>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. > >>>> Chuck > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" > >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > > >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM > >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been > Made Inaccessible To The > >>>> Blind > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In > Flight, that solved the > >>>>> inaccessible > >>>>> visual captcha problem with logic > questions instead of an audio > >>>>> captcha. > >>>>> These were very simple questions that > would require a human response, > >>>>> such > >>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was > yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, > >>>>> 5, > >>>>> 14, > >>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, > rose, or horse, which is not an > >>>>> animal? > >>>>> Of course I guess this approach might > not work for people with some > >>>>> forms > >>>>> of > >>>>> intellectual or developmental > disability. So it's possible that there > >>>>> is > >>>>> no > >>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one > at least addresses the concerns > >>>>> of > >>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of > deaf-blind ones. > >>>>> > >>>>> Chris > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>>>> On > >>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue > >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM > >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has > Been Made Inaccessible To The > >>>>> Blind > >>>>> > >>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, > >>>>> > >>>>> And what if this person is both blind > and deaf? The folks who develop > >>>>> these > >>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to > consider this population too. > >>>>> > >>>>> Peter Donahue > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: > >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM > >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has > Been Made Inaccessible To The > >>>>> Blind > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> as long as there are alternatives to > solve the captcha such as audio > >>>>> captcha > >>>>> or use of other services such as > Solona or Web Vizum they are not > >>>>> breaking > >>>>> the law. As blind professionals we > need to look toward using > >>>>> alternatives > >>>>> to > >>>>> solve these types of problems and the > alternatives are out there for > >>>>> us > >>>>> to > >>>>> use. > >>>>> Chuck > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" > >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM > >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has > Been Made Inaccessible To The > >>>>> Blind > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Derek, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Interesting that they even make it > a random test.  There are other > >>>>>> sites > >>>>>> that do this type of thing and it > is not fair appropriate for any of > >>>>>> them > >>>>>> to do so.  This needs to > change, for the sake of all blind people. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing > this test? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Tom > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" > >>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing > List'" > >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 > AM > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn > Has Been Made Inaccessible To The > >>>>>> Blind > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> If you are wondering why > sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a > >>>>>>> captcha > >>>>>>> and > >>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to > read on: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> QUOTE > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts > >>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted > for my password or to type in characters > >>>>>>> from > >>>>>>> an > >>>>>>> image shown on the security > verification screen? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to > protecting the privacy and security of our > >>>>>>> members' > >>>>>>> information and maintaining > the mutual trust we share with our > >>>>>>> community. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> As part of our proactive > efforts to keep our members and community > >>>>>>> safe > >>>>>>> from > >>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we > vigorously monitor site activity. At > >>>>>>> various > >>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, > you may be prompted to re-enter your > >>>>>>> password > >>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in > distorted letters or numbers > >>>>>>> presented > >>>>>>> in > >>>>>>> a > >>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA > (Completely Automated Public Turing test > >>>>>>> to > >>>>>>> tell > >>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is > a security method commonly used by > >>>>>>> websites. > >>>>>>> This feature helps to > distinguish human attempts to access the site > >>>>>>> from > >>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated > attempts to access the site, a > >>>>>>> technique > >>>>>>> typically used by spammers. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> At various times, you could > experience an increase in CAPTCHA > >>>>>>> prompts. > >>>>>>> To > >>>>>>> reduce the number of times you > see the security challenge during the > >>>>>>> day, > >>>>>>> you might consider the > following actions: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>   1. Enable > cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help > >>>>>>> section.) > >>>>>>>   2. Ensure > that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn > >>>>>>> during > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> day. We will remember your > last login for a period of time which > >>>>>>> will > >>>>>>> allow > >>>>>>> you to bypass the login > sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We > >>>>>>> do > >>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at > the end of each day. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> If you have difficulty > distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, > >>>>>>> you > >>>>>>> can > >>>>>>> click on the "Try a different > image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also > >>>>>>> available > >>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon > found on the "Security Verification" > >>>>>>> page. > >>>>>>> Source: > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ > >>>>>>> faqid=3065 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, > that I cannot find the audio icon. > >>>>>>> This > >>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my > account - even with a password.  This > >>>>>>> issue > >>>>>>> will > >>>>>>> persist - especially for the > totally blind - until it is addressed > >>>>>>> by > >>>>>>> LinkedIn. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> END QUOTE > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I > encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get > >>>>>>> their > >>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>> Derek > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>>>>>> On > >>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue > >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 > 12:37 PM > >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing > List > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] > LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The > >>>>>>> Blind > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>    Upon reading the > posts about this I checked for myself and was > >>>>>>> automatically logged in. > Linked-In worked as it always does. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Peter Donahue > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" > >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing > List'" > >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, > 2010 5:13 PM > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] > LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The > >>>>>>> Blind > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a > problem with new accounts or only happens > >>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on > this list raised this issue last week but > >>>>>>> I > >>>>>>> was > >>>>>>> able to log into my own > account with no problem. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Chris > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>>>>>> On > >>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman > >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, > 2010 11:34 AM > >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing > List > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] > LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The > >>>>>>> Blind > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence > JAWS? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an > external synth! > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Mike > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" > >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing > List" > >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, > 2010 8:09 AM > >>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn > Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello All, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I received an invitation > to connect to colleagues from the past > >>>>>>>> through > >>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com.  I > have used LinkedIn in the past and been able > >>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>> get > >>>>>>>> around with only a few > problems.  It appears that they have added > >>>>>>>> real-time verification to > the login process on top of the normal > >>>>>>>> username > >>>>>>>> and password.  They > do offer the ability to have the image that > >>>>>>>> they > >>>>>>>> present for real[-time > verification, but the text is spoken at the > >>>>>>>> same > >>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces > the popup window.  This seems to me to be > >>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>> barrier and was not there > the last time that I logged in to my > >>>>>>>> account. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here > use LinkedIn? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>> Tom > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change > your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your > list options or get your account info > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > >>>>>>> com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> __________ Information from > ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > >>>>>>> signature > >>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) > __________ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The message was checked by > ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> __________ Information from > ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > >>>>>>> signature > >>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) > __________ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The message was checked by > ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your > list options or get your account info > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo > >>>>>>> bal.net > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your > list options or get your account info > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm > >>>>>>> ail.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your > list options or get your account info > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > >>>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>>> > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > >>>>> al.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > >>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo > >>>>> bal.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > >>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > >>>>> com > >>>>> > >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 > Antivirus, version of virus > >>>>> signature > >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ > >>>>> > >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 > Antivirus. > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.eset.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 > Antivirus, version of virus > >>>>> signature > >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ > >>>>> > >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 > Antivirus. > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.eset.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 > Antivirus, version of virus > >>>>> signature > >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ > >>>>> > >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 > Antivirus. > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.eset.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > >>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get your account info for > >>>> blindlaw: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > >> > >> > >> > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - > Release Date: 08/09/10 > >> 02:35:00 > >> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - > Release Date: 08/09/10 > > 02:35:00 > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release > Date: 08/11/10 > 02:34:00 > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version > of virus signature > database 5359 (20100811) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version > of virus signature > database 5359 (20100811) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version > of virus signature > database 5359 (20100811) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > From dwilson.lists at gmail.com Thu Aug 12 05:48:30 2010 From: dwilson.lists at gmail.com (Derek Wilson) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 14:48:30 +0900 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <852089.75022.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <40C9A99D661943458493579FA51B9B1E@Scorpio13> <852089.75022.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have been prompted for the Security Verification captcha even while logged in to LinkedIn. It happened when I switched between editing my profile and the discussion forum for one of my groups. Apparently Webvisum works well, but I have yet to register for that free service. One final comment is that the link to hear the audio alternative to the image captcha is not visible using Windows High Contrast theme. Not sure why, but thought there may be other users in my situation who might like to know. Where, per chance, might I find the link to the audio captcha? Thanks. Derek On 8/12/10, William ODonnell wrote: > Interestingly enough, I tried this yesterday and instead of the WP comeing > up with the same error you are referencing, The audio file played with in a > format that was easy to hear. > > > --- On Wed, 8/11/10, Chris Danielsen wrote: > >> From: Chris Danielsen >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 6:46 PM >> I finally encountered the LinkedIn >> barrier. I clicked on the audio link, and >> Windows Media Player opened, but I got an error message >> saying that Windows >> Media Player could not play the file. The error message >> said that either the >> file or the codec with which it was compressed were not >> supported. Did >> anyone else have this problem? This was on my work PC; on >> my Netbook I am >> able to log in to the service automatically, because I >> guess at some point I >> must have allowed LinkedIn to "remember" me. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On >> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 12:46 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible >> To The Blind >> >> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control >> key after getting >> the link.  I can usually silence window eyes. >> Maybe need to repeat it a >> couple of times. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible >> To The Blind >> >> >> > My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set >> up not.  There is a >> > jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, >> but JAWS announces >> > the new window opening at the same time, which makes >> the reading of the >> > string a problem either way. >> > >> > Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to >> those who do not >> > know >> > how to work around screen readers talking at the same >> time or know about >> > and >> > using a third party tool to read the string.  In >> the case of Home Depot, I >> > encountered a screen where there was no link to have >> the string read out >> > loud.  This is a bigger barrier. >> > >> > These barriers are going to get worse and become >> standard operating >> > procedure for web developers unless something is done >> to cause change in >> > this area. >> > >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Tom Ladis >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made >> Inaccessible To The Blind >> > >> > >> >> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. >> I've been following this >> >> discussion closely.  My credit union, there >> online banking services, use >> >> a >> >> verbal code link.  I'm able to click on a >> link for a verbal code and fill >> >> in >> >> the box.  after several discussions with >> them, the company running the >> >> online banking service was able to create this >> link which gives you a >> >> verbal >> >> code.  Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> >> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made >> Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >> >> >> >>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress >> address this as an >> >>> accessibility >> >>> issue?  I went to the Home Depot website >> and was not able to complete my >> >>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping >> and creating an account. >> >>> They are also presenting some garbled text >> that I could not get past, >> >>> even >> >>> with a handheld CCTV.  They did not even >> offer a way to have the text >> >>> read >> >>> out loud. >> >>> >> >>> I expect that this will become more and more >> popular among the >> >>> developers >> >>> and more and more of a problem for blind >> people. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Tom >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: >> >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> >>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >> >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made >> Inaccessible To The Blind >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>>I have visited sites where that form of >> question was used and it was >> >>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. >> There are also other sites >> >>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can >> be selected and copied and >> >>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >> >>>> Chuck >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >> >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> >> >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >> >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been >> Made Inaccessible To The >> >>>> Blind >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In >> Flight, that solved the >> >>>>> inaccessible >> >>>>> visual captcha problem with logic >> questions instead of an audio >> >>>>> captcha. >> >>>>> These were very simple questions that >> would require a human response, >> >>>>> such >> >>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was >> yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, >> >>>>> 5, >> >>>>> 14, >> >>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, >> rose, or horse, which is not an >> >>>>> animal? >> >>>>> Of course I guess this approach might >> not work for people with some >> >>>>> forms >> >>>>> of >> >>>>> intellectual or developmental >> disability. So it's possible that there >> >>>>> is >> >>>>> no >> >>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one >> at least addresses the concerns >> >>>>> of >> >>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of >> deaf-blind ones. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Chris >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >>>>> On >> >>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >> >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >> >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has >> Been Made Inaccessible To The >> >>>>> Blind >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> And what if this person is both blind >> and deaf? The folks who develop >> >>>>> these >> >>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to >> consider this population too. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Peter Donahue >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>> From: >> >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> >> >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has >> Been Made Inaccessible To The >> >>>>> Blind >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> as long as there are alternatives to >> solve the captcha such as audio >> >>>>> captcha >> >>>>> or use of other services such as >> Solona or Web Vizum they are not >> >>>>> breaking >> >>>>> the law. As blind professionals we >> need to look toward using >> >>>>> alternatives >> >>>>> to >> >>>>> solve these types of problems and the >> alternatives are out there for >> >>>>> us >> >>>>> to >> >>>>> use. >> >>>>> Chuck >> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >> >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> >> >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has >> Been Made Inaccessible To The >> >>>>> Blind >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Derek, >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Interesting that they even make it >> a random test.  There are other >> >>>>>> sites >> >>>>>> that do this type of thing and it >> is not fair appropriate for any of >> >>>>>> them >> >>>>>> to do so.  This needs to >> change, for the sake of all blind people. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing >> this test? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Tom >> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >> >>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing >> List'" >> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 >> AM >> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn >> Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >> >>>>>> Blind >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> If you are wondering why >> sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >> >>>>>>> captcha >> >>>>>>> and >> >>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to >> read on: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> QUOTE >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >> >>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted >> for my password or to type in characters >> >>>>>>> from >> >>>>>>> an >> >>>>>>> image shown on the security >> verification screen? >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to >> protecting the privacy and security of our >> >>>>>>> members' >> >>>>>>> information and maintaining >> the mutual trust we share with our >> >>>>>>> community. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> As part of our proactive >> efforts to keep our members and community >> >>>>>>> safe >> >>>>>>> from >> >>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we >> vigorously monitor site activity. At >> >>>>>>> various >> >>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, >> you may be prompted to re-enter your >> >>>>>>> password >> >>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in >> distorted letters or numbers >> >>>>>>> presented >> >>>>>>> in >> >>>>>>> a >> >>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA >> (Completely Automated Public Turing test >> >>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>> tell >> >>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is >> a security method commonly used by >> >>>>>>> websites. >> >>>>>>> This feature helps to >> distinguish human attempts to access the site >> >>>>>>> from >> >>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated >> attempts to access the site, a >> >>>>>>> technique >> >>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> At various times, you could >> experience an increase in CAPTCHA >> >>>>>>> prompts. >> >>>>>>> To >> >>>>>>> reduce the number of times you >> see the security challenge during the >> >>>>>>> day, >> >>>>>>> you might consider the >> following actions: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>   1. Enable >> cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >> >>>>>>> section.) >> >>>>>>>   2. Ensure >> that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >> >>>>>>> during >> >>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>> day. We will remember your >> last login for a period of time which >> >>>>>>> will >> >>>>>>> allow >> >>>>>>> you to bypass the login >> sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We >> >>>>>>> do >> >>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at >> the end of each day. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> If you have difficulty >> distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >> >>>>>>> you >> >>>>>>> can >> >>>>>>> click on the "Try a different >> image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >> >>>>>>> available >> >>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon >> found on the "Security Verification" >> >>>>>>> page. >> >>>>>>> Source: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >> >>>>>>> faqid=3065 >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, >> that I cannot find the audio icon. >> >>>>>>> This >> >>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my >> account - even with a password.  This >> >>>>>>> issue >> >>>>>>> will >> >>>>>>> persist - especially for the >> totally blind - until it is addressed >> >>>>>>> by >> >>>>>>> LinkedIn. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> END QUOTE >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I >> encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >> >>>>>>> their >> >>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Regards, >> >>>>>>> Derek >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >>>>>>> On >> >>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 >> 12:37 PM >> >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing >> List >> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] >> LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >> >>>>>>> Blind >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>    Upon reading the >> posts about this I checked for myself and was >> >>>>>>> automatically logged in. >> Linked-In worked as it always does. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Peter Donahue >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >> >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing >> List'" >> >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, >> 2010 5:13 PM >> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] >> LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >> >>>>>>> Blind >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a >> problem with new accounts or only happens >> >>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on >> this list raised this issue last week but >> >>>>>>> I >> >>>>>>> was >> >>>>>>> able to log into my own >> account with no problem. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Chris >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >>>>>>> On >> >>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >> >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, >> 2010 11:34 AM >> >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing >> List >> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] >> LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >> >>>>>>> Blind >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence >> JAWS? >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an >> external synth! >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Mike >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >> >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing >> List" >> >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, >> 2010 8:09 AM >> >>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn >> Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Hello All, >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> I received an invitation >> to connect to colleagues from the past >> >>>>>>>> through >> >>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com.  I >> have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >> >>>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>>> get >> >>>>>>>> around with only a few >> problems.  It appears that they have added >> >>>>>>>> real-time verification to >> the login process on top of the normal >> >>>>>>>> username >> >>>>>>>> and password.  They >> do offer the ability to have the image that >> >>>>>>>> they >> >>>>>>>> present for real[-time >> verification, but the text is spoken at the >> >>>>>>>> same >> >>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces >> the popup window.  This seems to me to be >> >>>>>>>> a >> >>>>>>>> barrier and was not there >> the last time that I logged in to my >> >>>>>>>> account. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here >> use LinkedIn? >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >> >>>>>>>> Tom >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change >> your list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your >> list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>> blindlaw: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >> >>>>>>> com >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> __________ Information from >> ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> >>>>>>> signature >> >>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) >> __________ >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> The message was checked by >> ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> __________ Information from >> ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> >>>>>>> signature >> >>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) >> __________ >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> The message was checked by >> ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your >> list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>> blindlaw: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >> >>>>>>> bal.net >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your >> list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>> blindlaw: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >> >>>>>>> ail.com >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your >> list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>> blindlaw: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> >>>>>> blindlaw: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> >>>>> al.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> >>>>> blindlaw: >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >> >>>>> bal.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> >>>>> blindlaw: >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >> >>>>> com >> >>>>> >> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 >> Antivirus, version of virus >> >>>>> signature >> >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 >> Antivirus. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 >> Antivirus, version of virus >> >>>>> signature >> >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 >> Antivirus. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 >> Antivirus, version of virus >> >>>>> signature >> >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 >> Antivirus. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> >>>>> blindlaw: >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get your account info for >> >>>> blindlaw: >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your account info for >> >>> blindlaw: >> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in >> sightbb.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - >> Release Date: 08/09/10 >> >> 02:35:00 >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> > >> > >> > >> > No virus found in this outgoing message. >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - >> Release Date: 08/09/10 >> > 02:35:00 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in >> sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release >> Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version >> of virus signature >> database 5359 (20100811) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version >> of virus signature >> database 5359 (20100811) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version >> of virus signature >> database 5359 (20100811) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gmail.com > From tom at tomladis.com Thu Aug 12 13:40:01 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:40:01 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> <0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC> Message-ID: <050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Hello all, I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security becomes more and more of a concern. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after getting > the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a > couple of times. > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is >> a >> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS announces >> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >> string a problem either way. >> >> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >> know >> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about >> and >> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, >> I >> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out >> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >> >> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in >> this area. >> >> >> Thanks, >> Tom Ladis >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, use >>> a >>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>> fill >>> in >>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>> verbal >>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>> accessibility >>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>> my >>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an account. >>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>> even >>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>> read >>>> out loud. >>>> >>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>> developers >>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>> >>>> >>>> Tom >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>> Chuck >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>> captcha. >>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human response, >>>>>> such >>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, >>>>>> 5, >>>>>> 14, >>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>>>> animal? >>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>> forms >>>>>> of >>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there >>>>>> is >>>>>> no >>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>> concerns >>>>>> of >>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop >>>>>> these >>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>> >>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>>>> captcha >>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>> breaking >>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>> alternatives >>>>>> to >>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for >>>>>> us >>>>>> to >>>>>> use. >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>> sites >>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed >>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the >>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>> al.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>> bal.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature >>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature >>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature >>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >>> 02:35:00 >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >> 02:35:00 >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 > 02:34:00 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 02:34:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 12 14:11:21 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 07:11:21 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC> <050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real issues and stop whining. chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello all, > > I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to > accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily > complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the > internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they > should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human > operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. > > The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these > things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security > becomes more and more of a concern. > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >>I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>getting >> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >> couple of times. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is >>> a >>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>> announces >>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>> string a problem either way. >>> >>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>> know >>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about >>> and >>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, >>> I >>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out >>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>> >>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in >>> this area. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tom Ladis >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>> use >>>> a >>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>> fill >>>> in >>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>> verbal >>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>> accessibility >>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>> my >>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>> account. >>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>> even >>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>> read >>>>> out loud. >>>>> >>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>> developers >>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tom >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>> response, >>>>>>> such >>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>> forms >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> no >>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>> develop >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> use. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed >>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >>> 02:35:00 >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 > 02:34:00 > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From lists at zufelt.ca Thu Aug 12 14:32:22 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:32:22 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC> <050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: Good thing I'm not someone with a multiple disability, say blindness and cognitive or learning. I wouldn't want to seem like a whiner. But seriously, organizations who choose to implement CAPTCHAs need to provide options for individuals who are not able to solve the CAPTCHA with a reasonable degree of ease. In the Drupal community CAPTCHAs are used on the groups pages for submitting posts (http://groups.drupal.org). The community has a policy on CAPTCHAs • We use a form of spam protection called Mollom - you should be aware of their Terms of service. If you are visually impaired please contact the site maintainers and we will change your account so you don't have to interact with Mollom. This is not a perfect solution, the policy is on a page that is not particularly easy to find, and it could be better worded. But, we are moving in the correct direction. The reasoning for using a CAPTCHA is that if a user is subscribed to a group the new messages and comments are sent to their e-mail inbox immediately. This means that any SPAM that gets through to the site is sent out to many users, even if it is later identified and removed from the site. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-12, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real issues and stop whining. > chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>> totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>>>>> where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>>> pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From tom at tomladis.com Thu Aug 12 14:42:12 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:42:12 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <36B9E605F38045FFA8C315415F50412B@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Ouch!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than > insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be > helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real > issues and stop whining. > chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >> becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>>I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>>getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>> is a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>> announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>> about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>> Depot, I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>> out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>> in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>> use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>> fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>> my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>>sites >>>>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Thu Aug 12 14:41:02 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:41:02 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> <0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC> <050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <080701cb3a2c$64154a40$2c3fdec0$@com> OK...this trail has gone on endlessly. Has anyone tried actually calling or contacting support? Maybe you should gather a group of people who could call in with the same complaint. Nitpicking it here in the group is not going to accomplish anything. Obviously some here have said they are not having an issue. Try contacting those people to get a step by step idea of what they are doing. I've seen at least two people say they are not having or have gotten around the problem. Have you tried that at least? Try that and then come back with some sort of plan for those who wish to complain to Linked In and those who wish will complain. I know this is not my group but the same thing is being repeated endlessly and it doesn't seem that you've attempted to get around the problem or find a solution from what others have said. My apologies if this has offended anyone. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tom Ladis Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:40 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Hello all, I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security becomes more and more of a concern. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after getting > the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a > couple of times. > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is >> a >> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS announces >> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >> string a problem either way. >> >> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >> know >> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about >> and >> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, >> I >> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out >> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >> >> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in >> this area. >> >> >> Thanks, >> Tom Ladis >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, use >>> a >>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>> fill >>> in >>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>> verbal >>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>> accessibility >>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>> my >>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an account. >>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>> even >>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>> read >>>> out loud. >>>> >>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>> developers >>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>> >>>> >>>> Tom >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>> Chuck >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>> captcha. >>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human response, >>>>>> such >>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, >>>>>> 5, >>>>>> 14, >>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>>>> animal? >>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>> forms >>>>>> of >>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there >>>>>> is >>>>>> no >>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>> concerns >>>>>> of >>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop >>>>>> these >>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>> >>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>>>> captcha >>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>> breaking >>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>> alternatives >>>>>> to >>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for >>>>>> us >>>>>> to >>>>>> use. >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>> sites >>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed >>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the >>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>> al.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>> bal.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature >>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature >>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature >>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >>> 02:35:00 >>> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >> 02:35:00 >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 > 02:34:00 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 02:34:00 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Thu Aug 12 14:47:01 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:47:01 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <36B9E605F38045FFA8C315415F50412B@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <36B9E605F38045FFA8C315415F50412B@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <081001cb3a2d$3a35e120$aea1a360$@com> Chuck, While I agree that we don't want to appear helpless, I don't agree that this isn't a worthwhile battle. It is of tremendous importance to those of us that encounter this on websites that we travel by necessity. I only think it's whining when a person doesn't make attempts to do anything about it. I guess we all have a difference as to what we feel is worthwhile. -----Original Message----- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than > insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be > helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real > issues and stop whining. > chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >> becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>>I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>>getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>> is a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>> announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>> about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>> Depot, I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>> out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>> in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>> use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>> fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>> my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>>sites >>>>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 12 14:56:21 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:56:21 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <001701cb3a2e$88993640$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Chuck and everyone, And this is a real issue. What Web site will be next to go inaccessible on us? Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real issues and stop whining. chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello all, > > I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to > accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily > complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the > internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they > should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human > operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. > > The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these > things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security > becomes more and more of a concern. > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >>I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>getting >> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >> couple of times. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is >>> a >>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>> announces >>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>> string a problem either way. >>> >>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>> know >>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about >>> and >>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, >>> I >>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out >>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>> >>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in >>> this area. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tom Ladis >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>> use >>>> a >>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>> fill >>>> in >>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>> verbal >>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>> accessibility >>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>> my >>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>> account. >>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>> even >>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>> read >>>>> out loud. >>>>> >>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>> developers >>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tom >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>> response, >>>>>>> such >>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>> forms >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> no >>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>> develop >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> use. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed >>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >>> 02:35:00 >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 > 02:34:00 > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 12 15:01:41 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:01:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <005901cb3a2f$4639ad10$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good morning everyone, Or being blind and deaf. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J. Zufelt" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Good thing I'm not someone with a multiple disability, say blindness and cognitive or learning. I wouldn't want to seem like a whiner. But seriously, organizations who choose to implement CAPTCHAs need to provide options for individuals who are not able to solve the CAPTCHA with a reasonable degree of ease. In the Drupal community CAPTCHAs are used on the groups pages for submitting posts (http://groups.drupal.org). The community has a policy on CAPTCHAs • We use a form of spam protection called Mollom - you should be aware of their Terms of service. If you are visually impaired please contact the site maintainers and we will change your account so you don't have to interact with Mollom. This is not a perfect solution, the policy is on a page that is not particularly easy to find, and it could be better worded. But, we are moving in the correct direction. The reasoning for using a CAPTCHA is that if a user is subscribed to a group the new messages and comments are sent to their e-mail inbox immediately. This means that any SPAM that gets through to the site is sent out to many users, even if it is later identified and removed from the site. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-12, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than > insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be > helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real > issues and stop whining. > chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >> becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>> getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>> is a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>> announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>> about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>> Depot, I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>> out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>> in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>> use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>> fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>> my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>> totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>> sites >>>>>>> where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From tom at tomladis.com Thu Aug 12 15:08:59 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:08:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> <0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <080701cb3a2c$64154a40$2c3fdec0$@com> Message-ID: <71C931AC6D19475CB78574A01EB58C55@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Thanks for your suggestions. You are right that there are workarounds and some of the tests are presented at random. From what I have heard in this discussion is that others have encountered this issue and gotten pleasant responses that led nowhere. Thanks, Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > OK...this trail has gone on endlessly. Has anyone tried actually calling > or > contacting support? Maybe you should gather a group of people who could > call in with the same complaint. Nitpicking it here in the group is not > going to accomplish anything. Obviously some here have said they are not > having an issue. Try contacting those people to get a step by step idea > of > what they are doing. I've seen at least two people say they are not > having > or have gotten around the problem. Have you tried that at least? Try > that > and then come back with some sort of plan for those who wish to complain > to > Linked In and those who wish will complain. > > I know this is not my group but the same thing is being repeated endlessly > and it doesn't seem that you've attempted to get around the problem or > find > a solution from what others have said. > > My apologies if this has offended anyone. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Ladis > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:40 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Hello all, > > I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to > accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily > complicated > > and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the internet when > blind. If they are going to present barriers then they should have to > present an easy way around the barriers for human operators but still > make > it difficult for automated systems. > > The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these > things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security > becomes more and more of a concern. > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >>I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>getting >> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >> couple of times. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is >>> a >>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>> announces >>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>> string a problem either way. >>> >>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>> know >>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about >>> and >>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, >>> I >>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out >>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>> >>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in >>> this area. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tom Ladis >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>> use >>>> a >>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>> fill >>>> in >>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>> verbal >>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>> accessibility >>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>> my >>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>> account. >>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>> even >>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>> read >>>>> out loud. >>>>> >>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>> developers >>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tom >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>> response, >>>>>>> such >>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>> forms >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> no >>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>> develop >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> use. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed >>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>> >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >>> 02:35:00 >>> >>> >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 > 02:34:00 > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From lists at zufelt.ca Thu Aug 12 15:20:00 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:20:00 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <005901cb3a2f$4639ad10$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <005901cb3a2f$4639ad10$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Preface: I am not a lawyer or a U.S. resident. A potentially useful strategy to deal with sites with prohibitive CAPTCHAs. 1. Prepare a brief, easy to understand, letter explaining the barrier caused by CAPTCHAs to many users. Include possible reasonable strategies for accommodating the needs of these users. 2. Find organizations (NFB, ACB, others?) to sponsor the letter. 3. Deliver the letter to the contact for the site. 4. Deliver the letter to the actual company or organization running the site (contact information can sometimes be found on the site, other times it can be found by doing a WhoIs on the domain name). 5. Publish the letter publicly and use social media (Twitter, FaceBook) to attempt to get the attention of the site and the support of others. 6. If the CAPTCHA is preventing you from giving the organization money, or causing you to decide not to give the organization money, include this in the letter. 7. If you have a paid account or subscription to the site (these are available on LinkedIn), you * may * have a cause of action against the organization running the site, depending on jurisdiction. This may also be true if you are not paying for a membership on the site. In Canada all organizations must provide "reasonable" accommodations to individuals with disabilities up to the point of "undue burden", under the Human Rights legislation of each province. However, there is no jurisprudence regarding web-site accessibility and accommodations. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-12, at 11:01 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good morning everyone, > > Or being blind and deaf. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "E.J. Zufelt" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:32 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > Good thing I'm not someone with a multiple disability, say blindness and > cognitive or learning. I wouldn't want to seem like a whiner. > > But seriously, organizations who choose to implement CAPTCHAs need to > provide options for individuals who are not able to solve the CAPTCHA with a > reasonable degree of ease. > > In the Drupal community CAPTCHAs are used on the groups pages for submitting > posts (http://groups.drupal.org). The community has a policy on CAPTCHAs > > • We use a form of spam protection called Mollom - you should be aware of > their Terms of service. If you are visually impaired please contact the site > maintainers and we will change your account so you don't have to interact > with Mollom. > > This is not a perfect solution, the policy is on a page that is not > particularly easy to find, and it could be better worded. But, we are > moving in the correct direction. The reasoning for using a CAPTCHA is that > if a user is subscribed to a group the new messages and comments are sent to > their e-mail inbox immediately. This means that any SPAM that gets through > to the site is sent out to many users, even if it is later identified and > removed from the site. > > HTH, > > Everett Zufelt > http://zufelt.ca > > Follow me on Twitter > http://twitter.com/ezufelt > > View my LinkedIn Profile > http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt > > > > On 2010-08-12, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > >> Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than >> insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be >> helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real >> issues and stop whining. >> chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >>> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >>> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >>> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >>> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >>> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >>> >>> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >>> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >>> becomes more and more of a concern. >>> >>> Tom >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>> >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>>> getting >>>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>>> couple of times. >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>>> is a >>>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>>> announces >>>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>>> string a problem either way. >>>>> >>>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>>> know >>>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>>> about >>>>> and >>>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>>> Depot, I >>>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>>> out >>>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>>> >>>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>>> in >>>>> this area. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Tom Ladis >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>>> >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>>> use >>>>>> a >>>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>>> fill >>>>>> in >>>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>>> verbal >>>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>>> >>>>>> Steve >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>>> accessibility >>>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>>> account. >>>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>>> even >>>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> out loud. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>>> developers >>>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>>> totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>> where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>>> 02:34:00 >>>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Thu Aug 12 16:02:56 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:02:56 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <71C931AC6D19475CB78574A01EB58C55@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> <0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <080701cb3a2c$64154a40$2c3fdec0$@com> <71C931AC6D19475CB78574A01EB58C55@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <082601cb3a37$d58b9ca0$80a2d5e0$@com> Well Tom...if you're going to let the fact that a couple people on here got nowhere deter you from actually complaining to the webmaster....what is the point of this conversation? To vent? All I'm saying is at least attempt to contact the people who had no problem with accessing the website. You may find that you are sending the same emails repeatedly for no reason. I'm just not understanding the point of this if you're not going to do something.... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tom Ladis Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 10:09 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Thanks for your suggestions. You are right that there are workarounds and some of the tests are presented at random. From what I have heard in this discussion is that others have encountered this issue and gotten pleasant responses that led nowhere. Thanks, Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > OK...this trail has gone on endlessly. Has anyone tried actually calling > or > contacting support? Maybe you should gather a group of people who could > call in with the same complaint. Nitpicking it here in the group is not > going to accomplish anything. Obviously some here have said they are not > having an issue. Try contacting those people to get a step by step idea > of > what they are doing. I've seen at least two people say they are not > having > or have gotten around the problem. Have you tried that at least? Try > that > and then come back with some sort of plan for those who wish to complain > to > Linked In and those who wish will complain. > > I know this is not my group but the same thing is being repeated endlessly > and it doesn't seem that you've attempted to get around the problem or > find > a solution from what others have said. > > My apologies if this has offended anyone. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Ladis > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:40 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Hello all, > > I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to > accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily > complicated > > and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the internet when > blind. If they are going to present barriers then they should have to > present an easy way around the barriers for human operators but still > make > it difficult for automated systems. > > The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these > things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security > becomes more and more of a concern. > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >>I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>getting >> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >> couple of times. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is >>> a >>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>> announces >>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>> string a problem either way. >>> >>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>> know >>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about >>> and >>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, >>> I >>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out >>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>> >>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in >>> this area. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tom Ladis >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>> use >>>> a >>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>> fill >>>> in >>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>> verbal >>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>> accessibility >>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>> my >>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>> account. >>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>> even >>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>> read >>>>> out loud. >>>>> >>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>> developers >>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tom >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>> response, >>>>>>> such >>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>> forms >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> no >>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>> develop >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> use. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed >>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>> >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >>> 02:35:00 >>> >>> >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 > 02:34:00 > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From tom at tomladis.com Thu Aug 12 16:38:22 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:38:22 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> <0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <080701cb3a2c$64154a40$2c3fdec0$@com><71C931AC6D19475CB78574A01EB58C55@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <082601cb3a37$d58b9ca0$80a2d5e0$@com> Message-ID: You are right. I will be more careful what I bring up as a topic when I know what to do. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Well Tom...if you're going to let the fact that a couple people on here > got > nowhere deter you from actually complaining to the webmaster....what is > the > point of this conversation? To vent? > > All I'm saying is at least attempt to contact the people who had no > problem > with accessing the website. You may find that you are sending the same > emails repeatedly for no reason. I'm just not understanding the point of > this if you're not going to do something.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Ladis > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 10:09 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Thanks for your suggestions. You are right that there are workarounds and > some of the tests are presented at random. From what I have heard in this > discussion is that others have encountered this issue and gotten pleasant > responses that led nowhere. > > Thanks, > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "WB" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:41 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> OK...this trail has gone on endlessly. Has anyone tried actually calling >> or >> contacting support? Maybe you should gather a group of people who could >> call in with the same complaint. Nitpicking it here in the group is not >> going to accomplish anything. Obviously some here have said they are not >> having an issue. Try contacting those people to get a step by step idea >> of >> what they are doing. I've seen at least two people say they are not >> having >> or have gotten around the problem. Have you tried that at least? Try >> that >> and then come back with some sort of plan for those who wish to complain >> to >> Linked In and those who wish will complain. >> >> I know this is not my group but the same thing is being repeated >> endlessly >> and it doesn't seem that you've attempted to get around the problem or >> find >> a solution from what others have said. >> >> My apologies if this has offended anyone. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Tom Ladis >> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:40 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >> complicated >> >> and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the internet >> when >> blind. If they are going to present barriers then they should have to >> present an easy way around the barriers for human operators but still >> make >> it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >> becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>>I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>>getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>> is >>>> a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>> announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>> about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>> Depot, >>>> I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>> out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>> in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>> use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>> fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>> my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>>sites >>>>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> > http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in >> sightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in >> sightbb.com >>> >>> >>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 12 19:30:40 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:30:40 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <80D67E643C694D26A6C6576346C9B2DE@spike> I have used sites where I have notified the administrator and it has been resolved. Interestingly, in contacting many sites I found that the site administrators were not aware of the barriers that captchas presented. When they were made aware of it in many cases they decided not to use it. They were using it because they were told that they should as part of their web packages that were purchased by their organizations and nothing was said about any difficulties with it. My point about being a whiner is that we need to effectively pick and choose our battlefields and when we don't take any responsibility ourselves to try to mitigate issues it does not present well. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J. Zufelt" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:32 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Good thing I'm not someone with a multiple disability, say blindness and cognitive or learning. I wouldn't want to seem like a whiner. But seriously, organizations who choose to implement CAPTCHAs need to provide options for individuals who are not able to solve the CAPTCHA with a reasonable degree of ease. In the Drupal community CAPTCHAs are used on the groups pages for submitting posts (http://groups.drupal.org). The community has a policy on CAPTCHAs • We use a form of spam protection called Mollom - you should be aware of their Terms of service. If you are visually impaired please contact the site maintainers and we will change your account so you don't have to interact with Mollom. This is not a perfect solution, the policy is on a page that is not particularly easy to find, and it could be better worded. But, we are moving in the correct direction. The reasoning for using a CAPTCHA is that if a user is subscribed to a group the new messages and comments are sent to their e-mail inbox immediately. This means that any SPAM that gets through to the site is sent out to many users, even if it is later identified and removed from the site. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-12, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than > insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be > helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real > issues and stop whining. > chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >> becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>> getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>> is a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>> announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>> about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>> Depot, I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>> out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>> in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>> use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>> fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>> my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>> totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>> sites >>>>>>> where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 12 19:35:58 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:35:58 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <001701cb3a2e$88993640$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <001701cb3a2e$88993640$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <3A6B7E15BD1349398B2D675CDAD3BEEE@spike> This is why we need to make sure that legislation such as H.R. 3101 and S. 3404 are implemented without being watered down and to make sure that the ADA covers the Internet. Unfortunately, when it comes to web accessibility we are still further ahead than some foreign countries. I recently did a consultation for someone in the U.K. and they are now just beginning to seriously address the issue of web accessibility. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello Chuck and everyone, > > And this is a real issue. What Web site will be next to go inaccessible > on us? > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:11 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than > insulting > ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be helpless and > incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real issues and stop > whining. > chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >> becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>>I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>>getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>> is >>>> a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>> announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>> about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>> Depot, >>>> I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>> out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>> in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>> use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>> fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>> my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>>sites >>>>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Thu Aug 12 19:53:38 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:53:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <80D67E643C694D26A6C6576346C9B2DE@spike> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> <83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13> <000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com> <39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> <0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC> <050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <80D67E643C694D26A6C6576346C9B2DE@spike> Message-ID: <83103F1E04B04F26BA7BCD8F84E200EC@StevePC> I agree with you, Chuck. The administrator may not know of the difficulty until someone points it out to them. Give them the opportunity to fix the problem and work with the problem. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind I have used sites where I have notified the administrator and it has been resolved. Interestingly, in contacting many sites I found that the site administrators were not aware of the barriers that captchas presented. When they were made aware of it in many cases they decided not to use it. They were using it because they were told that they should as part of their web packages that were purchased by their organizations and nothing was said about any difficulties with it. My point about being a whiner is that we need to effectively pick and choose our battlefields and when we don't take any responsibility ourselves to try to mitigate issues it does not present well. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J. Zufelt" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:32 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Good thing I'm not someone with a multiple disability, say blindness and cognitive or learning. I wouldn't want to seem like a whiner. But seriously, organizations who choose to implement CAPTCHAs need to provide options for individuals who are not able to solve the CAPTCHA with a reasonable degree of ease. In the Drupal community CAPTCHAs are used on the groups pages for submitting posts (http://groups.drupal.org). The community has a policy on CAPTCHAs • We use a form of spam protection called Mollom - you should be aware of their Terms of service. If you are visually impaired please contact the site maintainers and we will change your account so you don't have to interact with Mollom. This is not a perfect solution, the policy is on a page that is not particularly easy to find, and it could be better worded. But, we are moving in the correct direction. The reasoning for using a CAPTCHA is that if a user is subscribed to a group the new messages and comments are sent to their e-mail inbox immediately. This means that any SPAM that gets through to the site is sent out to many users, even if it is later identified and removed from the site. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-12, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than > insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be > helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real > issues and stop whining. > chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >> becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>> getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>> is a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>> announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>> about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>> Depot, I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>> out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>> in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>> use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>> fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>> my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>> totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>> sites >>>>>>> where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3066 - Release Date: 08/12/10 02:34:00 -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3066 - Release Date: 08/12/10 02:34:00 From tom at tomladis.com Fri Aug 13 00:30:52 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:30:52 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <80D67E643C694D26A6C6576346C9B2DE@spike> Message-ID: <5C383836129A4CC9A95514FF9A459697@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Interesting. I wish that you had shared this before talking about "whiners", but thanks for the reminder that I need to be more independent. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind I have used sites where I have notified the administrator and it has been resolved. Interestingly, in contacting many sites I found that the site administrators were not aware of the barriers that captchas presented. When they were made aware of it in many cases they decided not to use it. They were using it because they were told that they should as part of their web packages that were purchased by their organizations and nothing was said about any difficulties with it. My point about being a whiner is that we need to effectively pick and choose our battlefields and when we don't take any responsibility ourselves to try to mitigate issues it does not present well. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J. Zufelt" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:32 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Good thing I'm not someone with a multiple disability, say blindness and cognitive or learning. I wouldn't want to seem like a whiner. But seriously, organizations who choose to implement CAPTCHAs need to provide options for individuals who are not able to solve the CAPTCHA with a reasonable degree of ease. In the Drupal community CAPTCHAs are used on the groups pages for submitting posts (http://groups.drupal.org). The community has a policy on CAPTCHAs • We use a form of spam protection called Mollom - you should be aware of their Terms of service. If you are visually impaired please contact the site maintainers and we will change your account so you don't have to interact with Mollom. This is not a perfect solution, the policy is on a page that is not particularly easy to find, and it could be better worded. But, we are moving in the correct direction. The reasoning for using a CAPTCHA is that if a user is subscribed to a group the new messages and comments are sent to their e-mail inbox immediately. This means that any SPAM that gets through to the site is sent out to many users, even if it is later identified and removed from the site. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-12, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than > insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be > helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real > issues and stop whining. > chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >> becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>> getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>> is a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>> announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>> about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>> Depot, I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>> out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>> in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>> use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>> fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>> my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>> totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>> sites >>>>>>> where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Fri Aug 13 00:36:48 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:36:48 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <5C383836129A4CC9A95514FF9A459697@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <80D67E643C694D26A6C6576346C9B2DE@spike> <5C383836129A4CC9A95514FF9A459697@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <08a301cb3a7f$a06ebaa0$e14c2fe0$@com> Hi Tom. I cannot speak for Chuck....but you don't seem to be paying attention to what people are saying...or at least that's how it appears through your comments which show sarcasm. Way before these comments people made suggestions for how you could get around this issue and suggested you contact the website owners. It does not seem you have done this and as stated earlier, you keep saying the same thing. At some point, the same comments will recycle themselves. My question is...What do you want the group to tell you about this issue you're having? What steps do you want to be made aware of to resolve the issue you're having with the site? What else can we do to assist you? I ask this because obviously some of us are not getting exactly what you're asking since you repeatedly ask the same questions. Hope this doesn't come off as rude, but there seems to be a disconnect somewhere. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tom Ladis Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:31 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Interesting. I wish that you had shared this before talking about "whiners", but thanks for the reminder that I need to be more independent. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind I have used sites where I have notified the administrator and it has been resolved. Interestingly, in contacting many sites I found that the site administrators were not aware of the barriers that captchas presented. When they were made aware of it in many cases they decided not to use it. They were using it because they were told that they should as part of their web packages that were purchased by their organizations and nothing was said about any difficulties with it. My point about being a whiner is that we need to effectively pick and choose our battlefields and when we don't take any responsibility ourselves to try to mitigate issues it does not present well. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J. Zufelt" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:32 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Good thing I'm not someone with a multiple disability, say blindness and cognitive or learning. I wouldn't want to seem like a whiner. But seriously, organizations who choose to implement CAPTCHAs need to provide options for individuals who are not able to solve the CAPTCHA with a reasonable degree of ease. In the Drupal community CAPTCHAs are used on the groups pages for submitting posts (http://groups.drupal.org). The community has a policy on CAPTCHAs . We use a form of spam protection called Mollom - you should be aware of their Terms of service. If you are visually impaired please contact the site maintainers and we will change your account so you don't have to interact with Mollom. This is not a perfect solution, the policy is on a page that is not particularly easy to find, and it could be better worded. But, we are moving in the correct direction. The reasoning for using a CAPTCHA is that if a user is subscribed to a group the new messages and comments are sent to their e-mail inbox immediately. This means that any SPAM that gets through to the site is sent out to many users, even if it is later identified and removed from the site. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-12, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than > insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be > helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real > issues and stop whining. > chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >> becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>> getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>> is a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>> announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>> about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>> Depot, I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>> out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>> in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>> use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>> fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>> my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>> totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>> sites >>>>>>> where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From tom at tomladis.com Fri Aug 13 02:37:22 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 21:37:22 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <80D67E643C694D26A6C6576346C9B2DE@spike><5C383836129A4CC9A95514FF9A459697@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <08a301cb3a7f$a06ebaa0$e14c2fe0$@com> Message-ID: I was initially trying to see if anybody had any success as an advocate with this issue. I guess that I have the answer. Thanks for your thoughts. I will quit "whining" about this issue right now. ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:36 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hi Tom. > > I cannot speak for Chuck....but you don't seem to be paying attention to > what people are saying...or at least that's how it appears through your > comments which show sarcasm. Way before these comments people made > suggestions for how you could get around this issue and suggested you > contact the website owners. > > It does not seem you have done this and as stated earlier, you keep saying > the same thing. At some point, the same comments will recycle themselves. > > My question is...What do you want the group to tell you about this issue > you're having? What steps do you want to be made aware of to resolve the > issue you're having with the site? What else can we do to assist you? I > ask this because obviously some of us are not getting exactly what you're > asking since you repeatedly ask the same questions. > > Hope this doesn't come off as rude, but there seems to be a disconnect > somewhere. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Ladis > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:31 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Interesting. I wish that you had shared this before talking about > "whiners", but thanks for the reminder that I need to be more independent. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 2:30 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > I have used sites where I have notified the administrator and it has been > resolved. Interestingly, in contacting many sites I found that the site > administrators were not aware of the barriers that captchas presented. > When > they were made aware of it in many cases they decided not to use it. They > were using it because they were told that they should as part of their web > packages that were purchased by their organizations and nothing was said > about any difficulties with it. My point about being a whiner is that we > need to effectively pick and choose our battlefields and when we don't > take > any responsibility ourselves to try to mitigate issues it does not present > well. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "E.J. Zufelt" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:32 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > Good thing I'm not someone with a multiple disability, say blindness and > cognitive or learning. I wouldn't want to seem like a whiner. > > But seriously, organizations who choose to implement CAPTCHAs need to > provide options for individuals who are not able to solve the CAPTCHA with > a > reasonable degree of ease. > > In the Drupal community CAPTCHAs are used on the groups pages for > submitting > posts (http://groups.drupal.org). The community has a policy on CAPTCHAs > > . We use a form of spam protection called Mollom - you should be aware of > their Terms of service. If you are visually impaired please contact the > site > maintainers and we will change your account so you don't have to interact > with Mollom. > > This is not a perfect solution, the policy is on a page that is not > particularly easy to find, and it could be better worded. But, we are > moving in the correct direction. The reasoning for using a CAPTCHA is > that > if a user is subscribed to a group the new messages and comments are sent > to > their e-mail inbox immediately. This means that any SPAM that gets > through > to the site is sent out to many users, even if it is later identified and > removed from the site. > > HTH, > > Everett Zufelt > http://zufelt.ca > > Follow me on Twitter > http://twitter.com/ezufelt > > View my LinkedIn Profile > http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt > > > > On 2010-08-12, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > >> Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than >> insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be >> helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real >> issues and stop whining. >> chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing >>> to > >>> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >>> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >>> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >>> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >>> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >>> >>> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >>> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >>> becomes more and more of a concern. >>> >>> Tom >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>> >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>>> getting >>>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it >>>> a >>>> couple of times. >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>>> is a >>>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>>> announces >>>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of >>>>> the >>>>> string a problem either way. >>>>> >>>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>>> know >>>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>>> about >>>>> and >>>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>>> Depot, I >>>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>>> out >>>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>>> >>>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>>> in >>>>> this area. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Tom Ladis >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>>> >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>>> use >>>>>> a >>>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>>> fill >>>>>> in >>>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running >>>>>> the >>>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>>> verbal >>>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>>> >>>>>> Steve >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>>> accessibility >>>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to >>>>>>> complete > >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>>> account. >>>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get >>>>>>> past, >>>>>>> even >>>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the >>>>>>> text >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> out loud. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>>> developers >>>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>> where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with >>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are >>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind >>>>>>>>>> people. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter >>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used >>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>>> image, >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio >>>>>>>>>>> icon. >>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the >>>>>>>>>>>> normal >>>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: >>>> 08/11/10 >>>> 02:34:00 >>>> >>> >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >>> >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From mdgroat4178 at att.net Fri Aug 13 14:20:49 2010 From: mdgroat4178 at att.net (Blind Michael) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 07:20:49 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Subject: Would you be interested in being able to convert a voice note to text? In-Reply-To: References: <74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0C011E0C3E@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov> <9F8E8B36-6340-4A58-B0D9-76EDCF31E289@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <000601cb3af2$ba70ea90$2f52bfb0$@net> Hello list, I have been invited by the CEO of the Santa Clara County Blind Center, located in San Jose, California, to participate in a technology project team. My thought of a project is to create a software program that will convert a voice note to text. This would allow the person to use their own voice note taker. The end result would be similar to Dragon and their special recording device, but without the related cost. If you happen to know of an existing equivalent program, I would be very interested in knowing about it. I do realize that the software program will have to uniquely identify the voice note part of the recording device. Such devices like the Victor Stream Reader are multifunctional. I know that converting EBooks and songs would be a violation of copy right laws. My concept is that since only the voice note would be converted to text, which would only be the work of the person doing the recording, there would not be any copy right infringements. I do realize that there are many other potential applications for such a program, however, this list was my first thought as to the usefulness of such a program. Also my thought is that the legal profession would benefit from such a program, in that, such items as a court brief could be recorded and then converted to text. The text file would then only require editing, instead of one having to type the full brief. There few questions at hand: Is my legal concept correct? I do realize that there are a lot of legal issues that will follow with working with each manufacturer to obtain the needed criteria for the coding that would allow the voice note to be uniquely accessed. As a subscriber of the list, would you be interested in such a software program? If so, there is some information that is needed. I will need to know the make and model of the intended voice note recorder. Your response and any insight that you have would be greatly appreciated. Please respond OFF List, so as not to overload the list. I anxiously look forward you your response. Cheers, Michael Groat From jty727 at gmail.com Sat Aug 14 02:41:44 2010 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 22:41:44 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Law Event Message-ID: Hello to All! Hope alls well with you. Since I'm from Rochester, NY I will have to stay at one of Baltimore's hotels. I was wondering if anyone knew the closest hotel to theJacobus tenBroek Law Simposium event location. I'm asking so I can make arrangements for this wonderful event. I'm very unfamiliar with Baltimore. So, I thought I'd send a message about it. thanks abunch! Justin Young From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Sat Aug 14 14:09:54 2010 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 10:09:54 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Law Event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100814140954.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Hi Justin: The next tenBroek law symposium occurs in April of 2011. I am afraid I don't know a thing about hotels in Baltimore. Ray Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Justin Young To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Date: Friday, Aug 13, 2010 22:42:33 Subject: [bllaw] 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Law Event > > > Hello to All! > > Hope alls well with you. Since I'm from Rochester, NY I will have to > stay at one of Baltimore's hotels. I was wondering if anyone knew the > closest hotel to theJacobus tenBroek Law Simposium event location. > I'm asking so I can make arrangements for this wonderful event. I'm > very unfamiliar with Baltimore. So, I thought I'd send a message > about it. > > thanks abunch! > > Justin Young > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From AZNOR99 at aol.com Sat Aug 14 14:51:15 2010 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 10:51:15 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Law Event Message-ID: <5a7b2.48e7d0c7.39980763@aol.com> Hello Justin, The TenBroek Law Symposium has, in the past, negotiated a conference rate at several local hotels close to the NFB Jernigan Institute where the Symposium has taken place. That information is usually available in the fall prior to the April Symposium. However, if you're eager to make reservations now, I'd advise you to concentrate your hotel search on accommodations in Federal Hill (I don't know of any hotels but there are some bed and breakfasts there), Downtown (about a $8 cab ride to the NFBJI), or the Inner Harbor (about a $5-10 cab ride to the NFBJI). The NFB Jernigan Institute is located in Baltimore's Federal Hill neighborhood, which is a couple miles south of Downtown and the Inner Harbor. The Symposium can also be accessed through public transportation if that's preferable. I live in Baltimore, so feel free to contact me off-list if you'd like to discuss specifics concerning the neighborhoods, hotels, or bus routes. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 8/14/2010 10:14:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com writes: Hi Justin: The next tenBroek law symposium occurs in April of 2011. I am afraid I don't know a thing about hotels in Baltimore. Ray Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Justin Young To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Date: Friday, Aug 13, 2010 22:42:33 Subject: [bllaw] 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Law Event > > > Hello to All! > > Hope alls well with you. Since I'm from Rochester, NY I will have to > stay at one of Baltimore's hotels. I was wondering if anyone knew the > closest hotel to theJacobus tenBroek Law Simposium event location. > I'm asking so I can make arrangements for this wonderful event. I'm > very unfamiliar with Baltimore. So, I thought I'd send a message > about it. > > thanks abunch! > > Justin Young > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From LBlake at nfb.org Mon Aug 16 11:58:44 2010 From: LBlake at nfb.org (Blake, Lou Ann) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 07:58:44 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Law Event In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02F3BDDC@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Hello Justin: For the past two years, we have secured a block of rooms at the Holiday Inn Inner Harbor at a reduced rate for out of town participants of the Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. I am anticipating on doing the same for the 2011 Jacobus symposium. The NFB provides a free shuttle between the hotel and the Jernigan Institute, where the symposium takes place. I will make a post to this list when the block of rooms are available. I look forward to meeting you at the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. Best regards, Lou Ann Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org Promote Access to Science Education for Blind Students. Vote for the NFB Youth Slam in the Pepsi Refresh Project, or text 101913 to Pepsi (73774) -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 10:42 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Law Event Hello to All! Hope alls well with you. Since I'm from Rochester, NY I will have to stay at one of Baltimore's hotels. I was wondering if anyone knew the closest hotel to theJacobus tenBroek Law Simposium event location. I'm asking so I can make arrangements for this wonderful event. I'm very unfamiliar with Baltimore. So, I thought I'd send a message about it. thanks abunch! Justin Young _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.o rg From jorgeapaez at mac.com Thu Aug 19 02:21:32 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:21:32 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] looking for lawyer in areas of incorporating/llc Message-ID: Hello. My name is Jorge. I have launched 2 successful websites and wish to llc my 2 sites under one name. Any lawyer on this list who is in the area of incorporating/llc law, please reply off list at jorgeapaez at mac.com for more information. Thanks, Jorge Thanks. Jorge Paez --- President And CEO: Paez Production Networks Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. From David.B.Andrews at state.mn.us Thu Aug 19 15:51:20 2010 From: David.B.Andrews at state.mn.us (Andrews, David B B (DEED)) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 10:51:20 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Recruiting for D.C. Area Focus Group, Accessibility of High Stakes Testing Message-ID: Hello. Please see the announcement/invitation below to participate in an upcoming focus group. Forwarding and reposting is encouraged. Thank you. Recruiting for D.C. Area Focus Group, Accessibility of High Stakes Testing The Graduate Management Admission Council (GMAC®) is working with WGBH's Carl and Ruth Shapiro National Center for Accessible Media (WGBH-NCAM) to conduct a focus group on the accessibility of the Graduate Management Admission Test (GMAT®) by people who are blind, have low vision or have a mobility impairment, and who use a keyboard vs. a mouse for online navigation. Your participation is requested. Preference is given to individuals who have had experience taking a high stakes graduate admission test. Focus Group participants will be asked questions about test taking experiences including test functionality and navigation, and to provide preferences for potential delivery of accessible graphics and other imagery. An honorarium will be offered, and transportation to the site of the focus group (Reston, VA) arranged and costs reimbursed. Please send an email to access at wgbh.org with "participate" in the subject line. The focus group will be held in the morning of one of these three dates. Please include your preferences of dates by indicating first choice and second choice. Thursday, September 16 Tuesday, September 21 Monday, October 4 Thank you. -- Mary Watkins Director of Communications and Outreach Media Access Group at WGBH One Guest Street Boston, MA 02135 617 300-3700 mary_watkins at wgbh.org access.wgbh.org Follow the Media Access Group on Facebook and Twitter (@AccessWGBH) WGBH Boston informs, inspires, and entertains millions through public broadcasting, the Web, educational multimedia, and access services for people with disabilities. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Aug 20 17:05:22 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 12:05:22 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Job Announcement for OCR HHS Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR) Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:07 AM To: NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List Subject: [nfbwatlk] Job Announcement for OCR HHS Below is a job announcement posted on USA Jobs. I pasted information from the web site. You can go there to get the information about how to apply, and what criteria is needed, etc. Here's the link. HHS-OS-14-2010-0010- DE Good job hunting. This is positively, a good opportunity. /s/ Bennett Prows Job Title: Civil Rights Analyst (Olmstead) Department: Department Of Health And Human Services Agency: Office of the Secretary of Health and Human Services Sub Agency: Department of Health and Human Services Job Announcement Number: HHS-OS-14-2010-0010 SALARY RANGE: $105,211.00 - $136,771.00 /year OPEN PERIOD: Monday, August 16, 2010 to Tuesday, September 07, 2010 SERIES & GRADE: GS-0160-14/14 POSITION INFORMATION: Full Time Permanent PROMOTION POTENTIAL: 14 DUTY LOCATIONS: 1 vacancy - Washington DC Metro Area, DC WHO MAY BE CONSIDERED: This is a competitive vacancy, open to all United States citizens, advertised under the Delegated Examining Authority. This vacancy is concurrently advertised under merit promotion (MP) procedures for status candidates under announcement HHS-OS-14-2010-0011. Candidates who wish to be considered under both procedures MUST apply under both announcements. JOB SUMMARY: Become a part of the Department that touches the lives of every American! At the Department of Health and Human Services you can give back to your community, state, and country by making a difference in the lives of Americans everywhere. Join HHS and help to make our world healthier, safer and better for all Americans. This position is located in the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), Office of the Secretary (OS), Office for Civil Rights (OCR), Office of the Deputy Director for Civil Rights. The Department of Health and Human Services, through the Office for Civil Rights, promotes and ensures that people have equal access to and opportunity to participate in and receive services in all HHS programs without facing unlawful discrimination or impermissible disclosure or use of protected health information. Through prevention and elimination of unlawful discrimination and protecting the privacy of individually identifiable health information, the Office for Civil Rights helps HHS carry out its overall mission of improving the health and well-being of all people affected by its many programs. Position Details: Tenure: Career/Career Conditional Bargaining Unit Position: No Recruitment Bonus: No Relocation Paid: No Probation: A one-year probationary period may be required upon selection/ placement. PHS Commissioned Officers interested in performing the duties of this position as a career/career-conditional employee should also apply online under this announcement in order to receive consideration. Salary range listed includes locality pay. Additional selections may be made across the Department. New to the Government Application Process? We want to be sure you have an opportunity to be considered, so please review the information on the "Qualifications and Evaluations" tab and follow the instructions listed on the "How to Apply" tab. KEY REQUIREMENTS: * You must be a U.S. Citizen by the closing date to qualify. * Travel Required: No * Please carefully read and follow the instructions for HOW TO APPLY. Back to top Duties Additional Duty Location Info: 1 vacancy - Washington DC Metro Area, DC If selected for this position, you will: -- Offer subject matter expertise in the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Rehabilitation Act and the Supreme Court's Olmstead decision for design and implementation of outreach, training, and education strategies to support OCR's compliance, enforcement and policy initiatives. Assist with the development and implementation of these programs, including preparation of materials and writing and delivering presentations, as appropriate. -- Provide expert advice to regional staff in the design and drafting of investigative plans, gathering factual evidence including data requests and on site facility tours, use of experts, settlement and resolution agreements, and letters of investigative findings, as ell as counseling regions on resolving particularly complex cases involving unusual factual circumstances or novel applications of the law in accordance with OCR and/or Departmental policy and priorities. -- Provide expert guidance to HHS Components, Regional Offices and external entities with regard to rights and responsibilities under enforcement of the Americans with Disabilities Act and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. Provide analysis, input and support to senior analysts and leadership in drafting regulations implementing civil rights law or guidance and technical assistance materials explaining Federal law or HHS regulations. -- Independently research legal and policy issues to prepare issue papers and other supporting materials for use in advising senior policy officials throughout HHS on civil rights policies and the application of civil rights laws. Serve as a member of intra- and inter-agency working groups in the development of policies, legislative and regulatory proposals and special OCR initiatives to ensure that persons are not discriminated against on the basis of disability in health and social service programs and prepare materials for the working group on relevant civil rights issues. Back to top Qualifications and Evaluations QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED: Basic Qualifications: You must have one (1) year of specialized experience that has equipped you with the particular knowledge, skills, and abilities to perform successfully the duties of the position and that is typically in or related to the work of the position to be filled. To be creditable, specialized experience must have been equivalent to at least the GS-13 level in the Federal government. Examples of specialized experience include: Demonstrated knowledge of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, and the Supreme Court's Olmstead decision in order to interpret the requirements of the Acts and decision; to develop investigative strategies, evaluate factual information; apply legal theories to resolve complex complaint investigations and to design outreach, training and educational strategies in support of compliance efforts. You must meet citizenship and all other qualification requirements by the closing date of this announcement. All male citizens of the United States born after December 31, 1959, must be registered for the Selective Service to be eligible for Federal employment. For more information about registering with the Selective Service visit: www.sss.gov . A favorable background/security investigation under Homeland Security Presidential Directive (HSPD) -12 and other applicable laws and regulations is a condition of employment for this position. A credit check may be required as part of the investigation. An unfavorable adjudication of a background/security investigation may result in your removal from the federal service. HOW YOU WILL BE EVALUATED: Your resume and responses to the self-assessment job questions are an integral part of the process for determining your basic and specialized qualifications for the position. Therefore, it is important to support your responses to the applicant assessment questions by providing examples of past and present experience when requested. There are several parts of the application process that affect the overall evaluation of your application: 1. Your resume which is part of your USAJOBS profile 2. Your responses to the core questions 3. Your responses to the self-assessment job-specific questions 4. Your supporting documents High self-assessment in the vacancy questions that is not supported by information in your resume, essay responses, and/or supporting documents may eliminate you from best-qualified status or result in a lowered score. Additional details on the application process can be found at the "How to Apply" section of this announcement. Please be sure to allow yourself adequate time to apply for this vacancy. We recommend that you preview the questions for this announcement before you start the application process using the "click here" link below.To preview questions please click here. Back to top Benefits and Other Info BENEFITS: Federal Employees Health Benefits Program More Info Federal Employees' Group Life Insurance More Info Long-Term Care Insurance More Info Almost all new employees are automatically covered by the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS). If you are transferring from another agency and covered by CSRS, you may continue in this program. More Info Annual Leave More Info Sick Leave More Info Information on Federal holidays that fall within your regularly scheduled tour of duty. More Info Alternative work schedule options may be available. If you use public transportation, part of your transportation costs may be subsidized. Our human resources office can provide additional information on how this program is run. OTHER INFORMATION: In an effort to promote efficiency in the hiring process, the resume and corresponding responses of successful candidates may be shared with other Health and Human Services (HHS) organizations serviced by the Rockville Human Resources Center (RHRC) with similar vacancies (i.e., vacancies with the same title, series, grade and promotional potential as the position advertised). Applicants are strongly encouraged to apply directly to the vacancy of interest and not rely on this possibility as a means to securing employment. If you do not want your application shared with other HHS organizations, you must notify the point of contact listed on this vacancy announcement and your record will be noted accordingly. Selections made under this announcement will be processed as new appointments to the civil service. Current civil service employees would, therefore, be given a new appointment to the civil service. E-Verify: If you are selected for this position, the documentation that you present for purposes of completing the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Form I-9 will be verified through the DHS "E-Verify" system. Federal law requires DHHS to use the E-Verify system to verify the employment eligibility of all new hires, and obligates the new hire to take affirmative steps to resolve any discrepancies identified by the system as a condition of continued employment. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services is an E-Verify Participant . Equal Opportunity Employment. Equality is held as one of the most important values here at HHS. Selection for this - and any other - position will be based solely on merit. HHS does not discriminate on the premises of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, politics, marital status, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, age or membership or non- membership in an employee organization. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 2806 bytes Desc: image001.gif URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.gif Type: image/gif Size: 106 bytes Desc: image002.gif URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ nfbwatlk mailing list nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbwatlk_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbwatlk: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbwatlk_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Sat Aug 21 18:32:14 2010 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 14:32:14 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Job Announcement for OCR HHS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0BDC2B6C3AD343CBA64CEFFB524EF38D@14bd0130080a469> Bennett, This doesn't look like a link. Do you paste it into the key word search? Thanks CB -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:05 PM To: jobs at nfbnet.org; blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Job Announcement for OCR HHS -----Original Message----- From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR) Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:07 AM To: NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List Subject: [nfbwatlk] Job Announcement for OCR HHS Below is a job announcement posted on USA Jobs. I pasted information from the web site. You can go there to get the information about how to apply, and what criteria is needed, etc. Here's the link. HHS-OS-14-2010-0010- DE Good job hunting. This is positively, a good opportunity. /s/ Bennett Prows Job Title: Civil Rights Analyst (Olmstead) Department: Department Of Health And Human Services Agency: Office of the Secretary of Health and Human Services Sub Agency: Department of Health and Human Services Job Announcement Number: HHS-OS-14-2010-0010 SALARY RANGE: $105,211.00 - $136,771.00 /year OPEN PERIOD: Monday, August 16, 2010 to Tuesday, September 07, 2010 SERIES & GRADE: GS-0160-14/14 POSITION INFORMATION: Full Time Permanent PROMOTION POTENTIAL: 14 DUTY LOCATIONS: 1 vacancy - Washington DC Metro Area, DC WHO MAY BE CONSIDERED: This is a competitive vacancy, open to all United States citizens, advertised under the Delegated Examining Authority. This vacancy is concurrently advertised under merit promotion (MP) procedures for status candidates under announcement HHS-OS-14-2010-0011. Candidates who wish to be considered under both procedures MUST apply under both announcements. JOB SUMMARY: Become a part of the Department that touches the lives of every American! At the Department of Health and Human Services you can give back to your community, state, and country by making a difference in the lives of Americans everywhere. Join HHS and help to make our world healthier, safer and better for all Americans. This position is located in the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), Office of the Secretary (OS), Office for Civil Rights (OCR), Office of the Deputy Director for Civil Rights. The Department of Health and Human Services, through the Office for Civil Rights, promotes and ensures that people have equal access to and opportunity to participate in and receive services in all HHS programs without facing unlawful discrimination or impermissible disclosure or use of protected health information. Through prevention and elimination of unlawful discrimination and protecting the privacy of individually identifiable health information, the Office for Civil Rights helps HHS carry out its overall mission of improving the health and well-being of all people affected by its many programs. Position Details: Tenure: Career/Career Conditional Bargaining Unit Position: No Recruitment Bonus: No Relocation Paid: No Probation: A one-year probationary period may be required upon selection/ placement. PHS Commissioned Officers interested in performing the duties of this position as a career/career-conditional employee should also apply online under this announcement in order to receive consideration. Salary range listed includes locality pay. Additional selections may be made across the Department. New to the Government Application Process? We want to be sure you have an opportunity to be considered, so please review the information on the "Qualifications and Evaluations" tab and follow the instructions listed on the "How to Apply" tab. KEY REQUIREMENTS: * You must be a U.S. Citizen by the closing date to qualify. * Travel Required: No * Please carefully read and follow the instructions for HOW TO APPLY. Back to top Duties Additional Duty Location Info: 1 vacancy - Washington DC Metro Area, DC If selected for this position, you will: -- Offer subject matter expertise in the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Rehabilitation Act and the Supreme Court's Olmstead decision for design and implementation of outreach, training, and education strategies to support OCR's compliance, enforcement and policy initiatives. Assist with the development and implementation of these programs, including preparation of materials and writing and delivering presentations, as appropriate. -- Provide expert advice to regional staff in the design and drafting of investigative plans, gathering factual evidence including data requests and on site facility tours, use of experts, settlement and resolution agreements, and letters of investigative findings, as ell as counseling regions on resolving particularly complex cases involving unusual factual circumstances or novel applications of the law in accordance with OCR and/or Departmental policy and priorities. -- Provide expert guidance to HHS Components, Regional Offices and external entities with regard to rights and responsibilities under enforcement of the Americans with Disabilities Act and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. Provide analysis, input and support to senior analysts and leadership in drafting regulations implementing civil rights law or guidance and technical assistance materials explaining Federal law or HHS regulations. -- Independently research legal and policy issues to prepare issue papers and other supporting materials for use in advising senior policy officials throughout HHS on civil rights policies and the application of civil rights laws. Serve as a member of intra- and inter-agency working groups in the development of policies, legislative and regulatory proposals and special OCR initiatives to ensure that persons are not discriminated against on the basis of disability in health and social service programs and prepare materials for the working group on relevant civil rights issues. Back to top Qualifications and Evaluations QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED: Basic Qualifications: You must have one (1) year of specialized experience that has equipped you with the particular knowledge, skills, and abilities to perform successfully the duties of the position and that is typically in or related to the work of the position to be filled. To be creditable, specialized experience must have been equivalent to at least the GS-13 level in the Federal government. Examples of specialized experience include: Demonstrated knowledge of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, and the Supreme Court's Olmstead decision in order to interpret the requirements of the Acts and decision; to develop investigative strategies, evaluate factual information; apply legal theories to resolve complex complaint investigations and to design outreach, training and educational strategies in support of compliance efforts. You must meet citizenship and all other qualification requirements by the closing date of this announcement. All male citizens of the United States born after December 31, 1959, must be registered for the Selective Service to be eligible for Federal employment. For more information about registering with the Selective Service visit: www.sss.gov . A favorable background/security investigation under Homeland Security Presidential Directive (HSPD) -12 and other applicable laws and regulations is a condition of employment for this position. A credit check may be required as part of the investigation. An unfavorable adjudication of a background/security investigation may result in your removal from the federal service. HOW YOU WILL BE EVALUATED: Your resume and responses to the self-assessment job questions are an integral part of the process for determining your basic and specialized qualifications for the position. Therefore, it is important to support your responses to the applicant assessment questions by providing examples of past and present experience when requested. There are several parts of the application process that affect the overall evaluation of your application: 1. Your resume which is part of your USAJOBS profile 2. Your responses to the core questions 3. Your responses to the self-assessment job-specific questions 4. Your supporting documents High self-assessment in the vacancy questions that is not supported by information in your resume, essay responses, and/or supporting documents may eliminate you from best-qualified status or result in a lowered score. Additional details on the application process can be found at the "How to Apply" section of this announcement. Please be sure to allow yourself adequate time to apply for this vacancy. We recommend that you preview the questions for this announcement before you start the application process using the "click here" link below.To preview questions please click here. Back to top Benefits and Other Info BENEFITS: Federal Employees Health Benefits Program More Info Federal Employees' Group Life Insurance More Info Long-Term Care Insurance More Info Almost all new employees are automatically covered by the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS). If you are transferring from another agency and covered by CSRS, you may continue in this program. More Info Annual Leave More Info Sick Leave More Info Information on Federal holidays that fall within your regularly scheduled tour of duty. More Info Alternative work schedule options may be available. If you use public transportation, part of your transportation costs may be subsidized. Our human resources office can provide additional information on how this program is run. OTHER INFORMATION: In an effort to promote efficiency in the hiring process, the resume and corresponding responses of successful candidates may be shared with other Health and Human Services (HHS) organizations serviced by the Rockville Human Resources Center (RHRC) with similar vacancies (i.e., vacancies with the same title, series, grade and promotional potential as the position advertised). Applicants are strongly encouraged to apply directly to the vacancy of interest and not rely on this possibility as a means to securing employment. If you do not want your application shared with other HHS organizations, you must notify the point of contact listed on this vacancy announcement and your record will be noted accordingly. Selections made under this announcement will be processed as new appointments to the civil service. Current civil service employees would, therefore, be given a new appointment to the civil service. E-Verify: If you are selected for this position, the documentation that you present for purposes of completing the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Form I-9 will be verified through the DHS "E-Verify" system. Federal law requires DHHS to use the E-Verify system to verify the employment eligibility of all new hires, and obligates the new hire to take affirmative steps to resolve any discrepancies identified by the system as a condition of continued employment. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services is an E-Verify Participant . Equal Opportunity Employment. Equality is held as one of the most important values here at HHS. Selection for this - and any other - position will be based solely on merit. HHS does not discriminate on the premises of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, politics, marital status, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, age or membership or non- membership in an employee organization. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3081 - Release Date: 08/20/10 06:35:00 From dricken at gmail.com Mon Aug 23 13:55:09 2010 From: dricken at gmail.com (Kendrick Kennedy) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 08:55:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing Message-ID: List Mates, I need to know if there is any law or statutes regarding a blind student having to purchase a book new in order for the publisher to release the book to the University the student is attending. I purchased the book used from amazon. West Publishing states they will not release the file of the book until the book is purchased new. -- Thanks, 2K Kendrick R. Kennedy, BSBA Juris Doctor Candidate, 2011 The University of Mississippi, School of Law From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Aug 24 18:40:52 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 13:40:52 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: [DRBA] Disability Rights Fellowship at Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP Message-ID: From: CMPDL's Disability Discussion Docket (3D) [mailto:CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG] On Behalf Of Phelan, William Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 5:38 AM To: CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG Subject: FW: [DRBA] Disability Rights Fellowship at Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP Employment opportunity for recent law school graduates or judicial clerks William J. Phelan, IV, Esq. Special Projects and Technology Coordinator Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law American Bar Association phelanw at staff.abanet.org www.abanet.org/disability ________________________________ From: Disability Rights Bar Association [mailto:DRBA at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU] On Behalf Of Greg Care Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 5:29 PM To: DRBA at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU Subject: [DRBA] Disability Rights Fellowship at Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP Greetings everyone: In September 2009, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP welcomed its first Disability Rights Fellow. We are now accepting applications for our third annual Disability Rights Fellowship to begin in September 2011. The Fellowship offers a recent law school graduate or judicial clerk with a disability the opportunity to participate for a year in all phases of disability rights litigation at our firm in Baltimore, Maryland. Brown, Goldstein & Levy is a 14-lawyer law firm devoted principally to litigation. The firm has developed a national reputation for its high-profile, high-impact disability rights cases. The one-year fellowship will begin in September 2011. The application deadline is November 15, 2010. Please visit our website for additional details about the fellowship and the firm and to download an application: www.browngold.com. Please feel free to pass this information along to individuals who you believe would be interested in a great opportunity to both gain experience and put their knowledge and drive to good use. Thanks, Greg Gregory P. Care, Esquire Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 E. Baltimore Street Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 Phone: 410-962-1030 ext. 1316 Fax: 410-385-0869 gpc at browngold.com www.browngold.com Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1984 - 2009 Please consider the environment before printing this email Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the Addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! REMINDER: The DRBA listserv is intended to facilitate open discussion and sharing of ideas. 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Name: 2011 BGL Fellowship Application.doc Type: application/msword Size: 53248 bytes Desc: 2011 BGL Fellowship Application.doc URL: From kc2992a at student.american.edu Wed Aug 25 01:49:49 2010 From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 21:49:49 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Kendrick, I am having the same problem (you're not alone). It does seem implicitly discriminatory. I don't know any more than you do right now but I will let you know if I hear anything. Best, Kate Carroll On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Kendrick Kennedy wrote: > List Mates, > > I need to know if there is any law or statutes regarding a blind > student having to purchase a book new in order for the publisher to > release the book to the University the student is attending. > > I purchased the book used from amazon. West Publishing states they > will not release the file of the book until the book is purchased new. > > > > -- > Thanks, 2K > > Kendrick R. Kennedy, BSBA > > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2011 > The University of Mississippi, > School of Law > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL BlueLaw International LLP 703-647-7508 Cell: 631-521-3018 From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Wed Aug 25 01:57:00 2010 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 21:57:00 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Cellular Voice Software In-Reply-To: <31D9C92E49034D2DB52C431F520EC527@14bd0130080a469> References: <31D9C92E49034D2DB52C431F520EC527@14bd0130080a469> Message-ID: <20100825015700.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Could you contact me off list? I have Verizon Wireless and my current phone is about to go. I want to get the most accessible one they carry. Thanks. Ray Wayne, New York ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Date: Tuesday, Jun 1, 2010 18:16:26 Subject: [bllaw] Cellular Voice Software > > > All: > > I am informed today that my initial negotiations with Verizon Wireless were > successful to the extent that I obtained management approval for the HTC > Ozone model without the data plan. My goal is to eliminate the $30/month > added charge to Verizon Wireless customers who need adaptive voice software > to access normal features on their cell phones. Currently, the Ozone is > the only model of a cell phone available from Verizon that uses "Talks" > software. Since the Ozone is actually a PDA with Internet, E-mail and other > data features, there is an additional charge each month for the service. > This Denys access to cell phone features including contacts and menus > available to normally sighted customers at no extra charge. This means that > bl/visually impaired customers will have an option for equal access > without added charges. The next step is to complete an order for the Ozone > cell phone including the option of eliminating all data features. As I > write, this attempt is in process. It is complicated by the limits of > current Verizon software that does not permit data features to be "turned > off" on the Ozone PDA. I have a voice mail from a Verizon Wireless > representative confirming management approval, and another representative > attempting to complete an order with the Ozone by arranging for an over > ride. If all else fails, I will demand early termination of my Verizon > Wireless contract and buy an I phone which I am now informed is completely > accessible with voice access for all features and is also reasonably priced > �� a definite selling point! > > OK. I will send an update as soon as I have one. Wish me well, and stay > tuned! > > > > Cathryn (& Abby) > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From joramsey at cox.net Wed Aug 25 04:11:08 2010 From: joramsey at cox.net (John Ramsey) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 00:11:08 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I do not know of the legality of this practice but it has been going on for at least the lat ten years. Take care, John John A. Ramsey Jr., P.A. P.O. Box 6063 Gainesville, FL 32627 Phone: (352) 505-6642 Fax: (352) 240-6453 This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) 505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our control. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Katy Carroll Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 9:50 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing Dear Kendrick, I am having the same problem (you're not alone). It does seem implicitly discriminatory. I don't know any more than you do right now but I will let you know if I hear anything. Best, Kate Carroll On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Kendrick Kennedy wrote: > List Mates, > > I need to know if there is any law or statutes regarding a blind > student having to purchase a book new in order for the publisher to > release the book to the University the student is attending. > > I purchased the book used from amazon. West Publishing states they > will not release the file of the book until the book is purchased new. > > > > -- > Thanks, 2K > > Kendrick R. Kennedy, BSBA > > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2011 > The University of Mississippi, > School of Law > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40st > udent.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL BlueLaw International LLP 703-647-7508 Cell: 631-521-3018 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 13:44:40 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:44:40 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Cellular Voice Software In-Reply-To: <20100825015700.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> References: <31D9C92E49034D2DB52C431F520EC527@14bd0130080a469> <20100825015700.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: <23674DE4764445AEAAA30B236B66091D@Rufus> Verizon must have cranked up their data plan requirements. I had a MotoQ without a data plan for a couple years with no problems from the sales people, but do remember the Samsung model as another option if you want to go with accessible phones. I found the HTC Ozone keyboard rather cramped, but I do have monkey fingers. Also, the Android phones are still slow in developing accessibility but are nothing to sneeze at. I've been keeping up with their evolution and find it promising. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ray wayne Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 9:57 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Cellular Voice Software Could you contact me off list? I have Verizon Wireless and my current phone is about to go. I want to get the most accessible one they carry. Thanks. Ray Wayne, New York ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Date: Tuesday, Jun 1, 2010 18:16:26 Subject: [bllaw] Cellular Voice Software > > > All: > > I am informed today that my initial negotiations with Verizon Wireless were > successful to the extent that I obtained management approval for the HTC > Ozone model without the data plan. My goal is to eliminate the $30/month > added charge to Verizon Wireless customers who need adaptive voice software > to access normal features on their cell phones. Currently, the Ozone is > the only model of a cell phone available from Verizon that uses "Talks" > software. Since the Ozone is actually a PDA with Internet, E-mail and other > data features, there is an additional charge each month for the service. > This Denys access to cell phone features including contacts and menus > available to normally sighted customers at no extra charge. This means that > bl/visually impaired customers will have an option for equal access > without added charges. The next step is to complete an order for the Ozone > cell phone including the option of eliminating all data features. As I > write, this attempt is in process. It is complicated by the limits of > current Verizon software that does not permit data features to be "turned > off" on the Ozone PDA. I have a voice mail from a Verizon Wireless > representative confirming management approval, and another representative > attempting to complete an order with the Ozone by arranging for an over > ride. If all else fails, I will demand early termination of my Verizon > Wireless contract and buy an I phone which I am now informed is completely > accessible with voice access for all features and is also reasonably priced >  a definite selling point! > > OK. I will send an update as soon as I have one. Wish me well, and stay > tuned! > > > > Cathryn (& Abby) > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne 1%40nyc.rr.com From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Wed Aug 25 15:04:27 2010 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:04:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F6061AEB97@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> I may be getting soft, but West's position seems fair to me. Buying a new book comes with the option of getting an accessible electronic copy from West. West receives nothing from the purchase of a used copy. When you buy a used book, you get the book, so why would the purchaser think they are entitled to get all the benefits of a new book they did not buy? Sincerely, Tim Ford -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Katy Carroll Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 6:50 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing Dear Kendrick, I am having the same problem (you're not alone). It does seem implicitly discriminatory. I don't know any more than you do right now but I will let you know if I hear anything. Best, Kate Carroll On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Kendrick Kennedy wrote: > List Mates, > > I need to know if there is any law or statutes regarding a blind > student having to purchase a book new in order for the publisher to > release the book to the University the student is attending. > > I purchased the book used from amazon. West Publishing states they > will not release the file of the book until the book is purchased new. > > > > -- > Thanks, 2K > > Kendrick R. Kennedy, BSBA > > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2011 > The University of Mississippi, > School of Law > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40st > udent.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL BlueLaw International LLP 703-647-7508 Cell: 631-521-3018 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 15:51:30 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 11:51:30 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Colerado law vers Florida law Message-ID: I have a question. Say if someone living in Florida is adjudicated to be mentally incapacitated, and this person moves to Colorado for training Would Colorado honor the Florida order? From billreif at ameritech.net Wed Aug 25 16:05:27 2010 From: billreif at ameritech.net (Bill Reif) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 11:05:27 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F6061AEB97@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> References: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F6061AEB97@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Message-ID: <4C753F47.7050501@ameritech.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Wed Aug 25 18:56:40 2010 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 14:56:40 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Cellular Voice Software In-Reply-To: <23674DE4764445AEAAA30B236B66091D@Rufus> References: <31D9C92E49034D2DB52C431F520EC527@14bd0130080a469> <20100825015700.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> <23674DE4764445AEAAA30B236B66091D@Rufus> Message-ID: <0FB5CB8F1A5A46D2B4B1E463712DE4E2@14bd0130080a469> Ray- I don't have your contact information which is necessary if you want me to contact you off list. If I misunderstood, my apologies. CB -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:45 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Cellular Voice Software Verizon must have cranked up their data plan requirements. I had a MotoQ without a data plan for a couple years with no problems from the sales people, but do remember the Samsung model as another option if you want to go with accessible phones. I found the HTC Ozone keyboard rather cramped, but I do have monkey fingers. Also, the Android phones are still slow in developing accessibility but are nothing to sneeze at. I've been keeping up with their evolution and find it promising. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ray wayne Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 9:57 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Cellular Voice Software Could you contact me off list? I have Verizon Wireless and my current phone is about to go. I want to get the most accessible one they carry. Thanks. Ray Wayne, New York ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Date: Tuesday, Jun 1, 2010 18:16:26 Subject: [bllaw] Cellular Voice Software > > > All: > > I am informed today that my initial negotiations with Verizon Wireless were > successful to the extent that I obtained management approval for the HTC > Ozone model without the data plan. My goal is to eliminate the $30/month > added charge to Verizon Wireless customers who need adaptive voice software > to access normal features on their cell phones. Currently, the Ozone is > the only model of a cell phone available from Verizon that uses "Talks" > software. Since the Ozone is actually a PDA with Internet, E-mail and other > data features, there is an additional charge each month for the service. > This Denys access to cell phone features including contacts and menus > available to normally sighted customers at no extra charge. This means that > bl/visually impaired customers will have an option for equal access > without added charges. The next step is to complete an order for the Ozone > cell phone including the option of eliminating all data features. As I > write, this attempt is in process. It is complicated by the limits of > current Verizon software that does not permit data features to be "turned > off" on the Ozone PDA. I have a voice mail from a Verizon Wireless > representative confirming management approval, and another representative > attempting to complete an order with the Ozone by arranging for an over > ride. If all else fails, I will demand early termination of my Verizon > Wireless contract and buy an I phone which I am now informed is completely > accessible with voice access for all features and is also reasonably priced >  a definite selling point! > > OK. I will send an update as soon as I have one. Wish me well, and stay > tuned! > > > > Cathryn (& Abby) > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne 1%40nyc.rr.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3091 - Release Date: 08/25/10 06:34:00 From b75205 at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 20:00:54 2010 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:00:54 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing In-Reply-To: <4C753F47.7050501@ameritech.net> References: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F6061AEB97@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> <4C753F47.7050501@ameritech.net> Message-ID: What? the costs of making a book accessible are excessive. That is the problem here. Where do you get the idea that it is easy? Ah you hear things like you can make DAISY books in Microsoft Word well pal until you actually do it, you do not realize how much content goes missing. All of this free software that is designed for accessibility misses the mark. Just look at what we have now. Are you happy with accessibility now. Are we all done, don't need to do any more work on this, everything is accessible now. If it were easy everyone would do it. The problem here is that there are half a dozen different formats for electronic books, not to mention all of the free services that create books and each one of them, I repeat each one of them has to be laid out individually and that means the editors are editing editions over and over again. Until this gets standardized onto one format then publishers can challenge these laws telling them they have to do it for free. West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to them! James From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 21:09:41 2010 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:09:41 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing In-Reply-To: References: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F6061AEB97@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov><4C753F47.7050501@ameritech.net> Message-ID: James said, West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to them! Marc says, Is it up to them if they don't want to sell their books to black people? If you decide to sell your goods to the public, their are constraints placed on you. Someone may own a restaurant, but ownership does not mean that she has no obligation to make the restaurant wheelchair accessible. I think it's a legitimate argument to say that publishers who sell their books to the public have obligations to take reasonable steps to make their products accessible to people with print disabilities. If taking these steps constitutes an undo hardship, which you seem to imply, then that's another question, but insisting on reasonable accommodations is not the same as seizing property. Regards, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing > What? the costs of making a book accessible are excessive. That is the > problem here. Where do you get the idea that it is easy? Ah you hear > things > like you can make DAISY books in Microsoft Word well pal until you > actually > do it, you do not realize how much content goes missing. All of this free > software that is designed for accessibility misses the mark. Just look at > what we have now. Are you happy with accessibility now. Are we all done, > don't need to do any more work on this, everything is accessible now. > > If it were easy everyone would do it. The problem here is that there are > half a dozen different formats for electronic books, not to mention all of > the free services that create books and each one of them, I repeat each > one > of them has to be laid out individually and that means the editors are > editing editions over and over again. Until this gets standardized onto > one > format then publishers can challenge these laws telling them they have to > do > it for free. > > West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's > property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to them! > > James > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From tlfields2 at charter.net Sun Aug 29 05:04:10 2010 From: tlfields2 at charter.net (Tracey Fields) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 00:04:10 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind paralegals. Message-ID: <1E42BCF5105F47ABBF9C9FC7440042ED@OwnerPC> Hi all, I am new to the list. I am looking to change careers and go into the paralegal field and was hoping to get info from any blind paralegals that may be on this list as to their success in finding work in this field and the difficulties they have run up against, if there are any. Any advice or shared experiences would be greatly appreciated. Tracey From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sun Aug 29 18:40:11 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:40:11 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] lawyers in intellectual property Message-ID: Hello all: I am thinking of studying intellectual proprerty law as my law specialization choice in a few years. Any blind lawyers in this list who study the field? What problems did you come up against? What advice would you give someone just starting out in the field? Any law univercities that are well known for accessibility? Thanks. Jorge From booboobuttken at hotmail.com Sun Aug 29 20:55:56 2010 From: booboobuttken at hotmail.com (A S) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 20:55:56 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] blindlaw Digest, Vol 75, Issue 25 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Tracey - I am legally blind and went back to school to become a paralegal. I received both my AS and BS degree, have tons of office experience prior to losing my sight, and have NEVER been able to get work in the legal feild, not even starting as a receptionist. After several years of trying, I finally gave up. Social Security wouldn't even consider my application under a schedule A appointment, even though I made the grade requirements. I know there are blind paralegals out there, but iI don't know how many are employed as such, especially outside of private work. I got plenty of calls and interviews based on my resume, but never a call back once they realized I had a visual impairment. Good luck! I hope you have better success if you choose to pursue this route. Annette > From: blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > Subject: blindlaw Digest, Vol 75, Issue 25 > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 12:00:06 -0500 > > Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Blind paralegals. (Tracey Fields) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 00:04:10 -0500 > From: "Tracey Fields" > To: > Subject: [blindlaw] Blind paralegals. > Message-ID: <1E42BCF5105F47ABBF9C9FC7440042ED at OwnerPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Hi all, > > I am new to the list. I am looking to change careers and go into the paralegal field and was hoping to get info from any blind paralegals that may be on this list as to their success in finding work in this field and the difficulties they have run up against, if there are any. > > Any advice or shared experiences would be greatly appreciated. > > Tracey > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 75, Issue 25 > **************************************** From tlfields2 at charter.net Sun Aug 29 21:11:06 2010 From: tlfields2 at charter.net (Tracey Fields) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:11:06 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] blindlaw Digest, Vol 75, Issue 25 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Annette. Sorry things have not worked out for you. -------------------------------------------------- From: "A S" Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 3:55 PM To: Subject: Re: [blindlaw] blindlaw Digest, Vol 75, Issue 25 > > Hi Tracey - > I am legally blind and went back to school to become a paralegal. I > received both my AS and BS degree, have tons of office experience prior to > losing my sight, and have NEVER been able to get work in the legal feild, > not even starting as a receptionist. After several years of trying, I > finally gave up. Social Security wouldn't even consider my application > under a schedule A appointment, even though I made the grade requirements. > I know there are blind paralegals out there, but iI don't know how many > are employed as such, especially outside of private work. I got plenty of > calls and interviews based on my resume, but never a call back once they > realized I had a visual impairment. Good luck! I hope you have better > success if you choose to pursue this route. > Annette > >> From: blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org >> Subject: blindlaw Digest, Vol 75, Issue 25 >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 12:00:06 -0500 >> >> Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Blind paralegals. (Tracey Fields) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 00:04:10 -0500 >> From: "Tracey Fields" >> To: >> Subject: [blindlaw] Blind paralegals. >> Message-ID: <1E42BCF5105F47ABBF9C9FC7440042ED at OwnerPC> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am new to the list. I am looking to change careers and go into the >> paralegal field and was hoping to get info from any blind paralegals that >> may be on this list as to their success in finding work in this field and >> the difficulties they have run up against, if there are any. >> >> Any advice or shared experiences would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Tracey >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> >> End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 75, Issue 25 >> **************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tlfields2%40charter.net From fwlopez at comcast.net Mon Aug 30 00:30:12 2010 From: fwlopez at comcast.net (Fred Wright Lopez) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 17:30:12 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] lawyers in intellectual property In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F6BB300-96BA-492F-8F07-6B45DEF21D43@comcast.net> Jorge: Berkley Law (Boalt Hall) Law School, University of California Berkeley is perhaps the nations best known intellectual property law school. It is constantly ranked as the number one law school in this area. However there are many other excellent law schools that offer intellectual law courses, seminars and clinical placements, such as Stanford Law and UCLA Law schools. I graduated from Boalt Hall many years back but largely practiced in the area of Federal criminal law. Although admissions is very competitive UC Berkley has strong reputation for assisting students with disabilities. Now retired, I use the law library at Boalt Hall frequently. Recently, I had an issue with low vision equipment (CCTV) at the law library, the school aced quickly to acquire additional equipment and make sure that is was readily accessible. Good luck and contact me if I can be of further assistance. Fred W. Lopez Boalt Hall Class 1979 On Aug 29, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hello all: > I am thinking of studying intellectual proprerty law as my law specialization choice in a few years. > Any blind lawyers in this list who study the field? > What problems did you come up against? > What advice would you give someone just starting out in the field? > > Any law univercities that are well known for accessibility? > > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net From lmendez at twcny.rr.com Mon Aug 30 01:33:33 2010 From: lmendez at twcny.rr.com (L A Mendez) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 21:33:33 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Four Secrets to Law School Success Message-ID: <000a01cb47e3$5c8ace20$15a06a60$@rr.com> I thought that the following Article by Professor Michael C. Dorf would be of interested to list members starting or thinking about law school. http://images.findlaw.com/writ/newlogo.gif http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20100823.html Michael C. Dorf Four Secrets to Law School Success By MICHAEL C. DORF Monday, August 23, 2010 By MICHAEL C. DORF With a job market that remains, at best, uncertain awaiting them at the end of their three years, new and returning law students are understandably anxious about what they can do to make the most out of their legal education. In the past, I have offered advice about the first-year curriculum and how to think like a lawyer. In this column, I share four lessons that I have learned in nearly two decades of law teaching. The Most Important Skill You Can Acquire: Distinguishing Hard From Easy Questions Many laypeople labor under a misconception about the law and the work that lawyers do: The law, they imagine, consists of something like a very long list of rules, compiled in multiple volumes labeled "contract law," "property law," "criminal law," and so forth. The lawyer's job, in this view, is simply to look up the answer to the question of what the law requires in any given circumstance. In fact, that picture is partly accurate. Books of statutes, regulations, and case reports really do contain a large number of rules. Although many of those rules are quite clear, identifying them can be difficult for the layperson because of their sheer quantity. For example, an entrepreneur opening a new restaurant could, in principle, locate all of the federal, state, and local rules with which she must comply by searching on the Internet, but in doing so, she is likely to miss something important. Consulting with an experienced attorney will ensure that she avoids inadvertently breaking the law. Yet the picture of the lawyer as human search engine is quite incomplete. The most valuable and challenging work that lawyers do comes after they identify the relevant statutes, regulations, and cases. That work consists in analyzing the nature and scope of legal obligations when the law is unclear--for the purpose of either advising a client or defending the client's position in court. Most of what happens in law school centers around preparation for this second kind of lawyer's work. Instructors ask probing questions of students to develop their skills at categorization and argumentation. When different sources of law point in different directions, lawyers must know how to assess the likelihood that a court will find in favor of one or another resolution. They must also know how best to persuade a court to rule in a way that favors their client. Law school models and hones these skills. One of the most important skills a good lawyer possesses is the ability to distinguish between those legal questions to which the law provides a clear answer, and those questions that are unsettled. A client contemplating some course of conduct will want to know whether it is clearly legal, clearly illegal, or possibly legal but possibly the sort of conduct that could result in civil liability, a fine, or even imprisonment. Likewise, a client facing a lawsuit will be much more likely to settle the case if her lawyer tells her that there is a greater than fifty percent chance of liability, than if her lawyer says that she will almost certainly win. As these examples suggest, the answers to legal questions fall along a spectrum that ranges from crystal clear to extremely unclear. Law teachers tend to ask questions of their students without first identifying whether we are simply asking for the answer--as we might, if we are testing their ability to look up clear answers--or whether we are, instead, asking them to show us how they can argue for one or another result when the law does not provide a clear answer. That brings me to my first piece of advice. You should understand every question your instructors ask as really posing two questions: In addition to the question itself, there is a prior, unstated, query: Is this the sort of question to which the law provides a clear answer? The Right Kind of Confusion Students sometimes tell me that they came to class understanding the assigned material, but left class in a state of confusion. No doubt, some such confusion arises from my deficiencies as a teacher, but not all of it, I suspect. In many of these instances, the students were simply mistaken: They came to class with only a superficial understanding of the material. In a typical law school class, the instructor spends only a relatively small proportion of the allotted time covering the basics. What were the facts of the relevant case? What did the court decide? What reasons did it give? The answers to these sorts of questions are apparent on the face of the material, or at least they become apparent to students within a few weeks of the start of law school, as they learn how to read and understand legal documents. But such an understanding is superficial because the real work of lawyers is synthetic. They need to be able to take rulings from many different cases and construct a set of general rules and principles that they then bring to bear on new cases. For any reasonably complicated area of the law, there will be no single right answer to the question of how to combine the relevant cases to discern a set of general rules and principles. And even when experts agree about the relevant rules and principles, there will be many borderline cases as to which the way these rules and principles ought to apply is indeterminate. Law school teachers tend to focus a good portion of their questions and discussion on these borderline cases, so as to help students understand the limits of the law. Thus, a student should be confused at the end of a good class, because a good class will have probed the areas in which the law is unsettled or confused. We might even say that if I haven't managed to confuse my students, I haven't done my job! The key for students is to arrive at the right sort of confusion. Students should not be swimming in confusion. Rather, they should be able to see just where the law leaves gaps and ambiguities. Aiming to arrive at the right kind of confusion is simply another way of saying that law students should be able to tell the difference between questions that have clear answers, and questions that do not. Thus we come to my second piece of advice: As you prepare for class, try to internalize the voice of your professors asking questions about the margins of the legal issues that are being covered. Go beyond the basics of each case to ask yourself how the announced rule of law applies in other circumstances, the extent to which it overlaps with or contradicts decisions in other cases, and whether the individual decision or the pattern as a whole makes sense in light of the law's purposes. These questions form the bulk of what you study in class, and so you should try to anticipate them before class. Don't Just Read; Write and Discuss In many of your law school classes, all or most of your grade will be based on your performance on a final examination at the end of the semester. Those high stakes can be anxiety-provoking on their own, but there is an added kicker in law school: We do not prepare you to take exams. The bulk of classroom discussion is deconstructive. Your instructors pose hypothetical questions to get you to say whether you think a case you read was rightly or wrongly decided. Yet, on our exams, we ask you to be constructive: We provide you with a set of real or hypothetical facts and ask you how the existing law applies. To be sure, the analytical skills we teach in class should be useful in answering exam questions. If you have been reading carefully and paying attention in class, you will have a good idea of how to synthesize different cases to yield a general rule that is applicable in new cases. You will even have some experience in making short oral statements explaining your reasoning. What you will mostly lack, however, is practice in making a sustained written argument for a particular result or explaining the competing considerations in play. Your first-semester course in legal writing will have given you some practice in this skill, but it will not necessarily involve the subject matter of your substantive classes. And even if your instructors have provided you with practice exercises during the course of the semester, you will have spent only a small fraction of your total preparation time outside class on such exercises. Thus, I come to my third piece of advice: Complete practice exams. Many professors distribute their exams from previous years, but it is not essential that you work with those in particular. There are websites and books containing practice exams. Beginning about mid-way through the semester, you should practice answering exam questions under simulated exam conditions. Then get together with a group of classmates to review your respective answers. You will find that the practice improves your general ability to write exams and that the discussion with classmates helps you learn the material. Have Fun Fourth and finally, you should try to have fun in law school. By that, I mean two things. First, make some time to do fun things outside of your studies: exercise; go to the movies; read fiction; do some of whatever you liked to do before you committed yourself to studying the law. Second, have fun in your study of the law. Law is both a fascinating mental puzzle and a supremely important social institution. You are studying it to become a competent professional, but in the course of doing so, you should also bring to bear the same spirit of intellectual inquiry that characterized your undergraduate studies (assuming you didn't waste your time in college). Treating your legal studies as a continuation of a liberal education will enable you to enjoy law school and will make you a better lawyer. Writing over a century ago, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. said more or less the same thing, albeit more poetically: The "more general aspects of the law," Holmes wrote, "give it universal interest. It is through them that you not only become a great master in your calling, but connect your subject with the universe and catch an echo of the infinite . . . ." Even if you fail to hear that echo, the least you can do is to try to find your study of law interesting. _____ Michael C. Dorf is the Robert S. Stevens Professor of Law at Cornell University. He blogs at dorfonlaw.org . His next book, The Oxford Introductions to U.S. Law: Constitutional Law (with Trevor Morrison), will be published in September. http://images.findlaw.com/shared/spacer.gif Company | Privacy Policy | Disclaimer Copyright C 1994-2010 FindLaw http://ehg-findlaw.hitbox.com/HG?hc=we76&cd=1&hv=6&ce=u&hb=DM531216MLSZ64EN3 &n=NO+JAVASCRIPT&vcon=NO+JAVASCRIPT&seg=&cmp=&gp=&fnl=&pec=&dcmp=&ra=&gn=&cv =&ld=&la=&c1=&c2=&c3=&c4=&vpc=090101rn -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 5803 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 23170 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image005.gif Type: image/gif Size: 43 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image006.png Type: image/png Size: 166 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon Aug 30 04:07:17 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 21:07:17 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] lawyers in intellectual property In-Reply-To: <0F6BB300-96BA-492F-8F07-6B45DEF21D43@comcast.net> References: <0F6BB300-96BA-492F-8F07-6B45DEF21D43@comcast.net> Message-ID: Thanks Fred. I'm currently in high school, with the opportunity to take advanced classes. Any classes I should look out for? Any classes I can take advantage of to give me a credit counting towards the field or at least give me some knowledge foundation leading up to my law study? Thanks. Jorge On Aug 29, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Fred Wright Lopez wrote: > Jorge: Berkley Law (Boalt Hall) Law School, University of California Berkeley is perhaps the nations best known intellectual property law school. It is constantly ranked as the number one law school in this area. However there are many other excellent law schools that offer intellectual law courses, seminars and clinical placements, such as Stanford Law and UCLA Law schools. I graduated from Boalt Hall many years back but largely practiced in the area of Federal criminal law. Although admissions is very competitive UC Berkley has strong reputation for assisting students with disabilities. Now retired, I use the law library at Boalt Hall frequently. Recently, I had an issue with low vision equipment (CCTV) at the law library, the school aced quickly to acquire additional equipment and make sure that is was readily accessible. Good luck and contact me if I can be of further assistance. > > Fred W. Lopez > Boalt Hall Class 1979 > > > > On Aug 29, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> Hello all: >> I am thinking of studying intellectual proprerty law as my law specialization choice in a few years. >> Any blind lawyers in this list who study the field? >> What problems did you come up against? >> What advice would you give someone just starting out in the field? >> >> Any law univercities that are well known for accessibility? >> >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> Jorge >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com Thanks. Jorge Paez --- President And CEO: Paez Production Networks Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. From b75205 at gmail.com Mon Aug 30 14:32:34 2010 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:32:34 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing In-Reply-To: References: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F6061AEB97@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> <4C753F47.7050501@ameritech.net> Message-ID: You don't have to buy their book, you can use other sources. They are not providing a necessary service. What is a reasonable accessibility? That is not defined. Oh sure we have section 508 which makes documents legally accessible but not actually accessible. The conditions right now is to make some content accessible to the blind, it does not matter to the law that all of the content is not accessible only parts of it. And so you have this horrible situation we have today where content is half accessible, there are gaps and there is no incentive to fix this gap. Why should anyone help you if they are not going to be paid to help you. People have other things to do than to work on making content free to the blind. This is an extremely time consuming effort, it is not easy and you want it for free. If there is no incentive to help you other than the sense of trying to do something good for people and when people like you are demanding that they do this stuff with no reward then you get what you have today, nothing complete, content that is partially accessible deemed to be accessible. You have to rely on organizations that are overeloaded with work to get out the content. That is the state of things today. James On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Marc Workman wrote: > James said, > > West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's > property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to them! > > Marc says, > Is it up to them if they don't want to sell their books to black people? If > you decide to sell your goods to the public, their are constraints placed on > you. Someone may own a restaurant, but ownership does not mean that she has > no obligation to make the restaurant wheelchair accessible. I think it's a > legitimate argument to say that publishers who sell their books to the > public have obligations to take reasonable steps to make their products > accessible to people with print disabilities. If taking these steps > constitutes an undo hardship, which you seem to imply, then that's another > question, but insisting on reasonable accommodations is not the same as > seizing property. > > Regards, > > Marc > ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:00 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing > > > What? the costs of making a book accessible are excessive. That is the >> problem here. Where do you get the idea that it is easy? Ah you hear >> things >> like you can make DAISY books in Microsoft Word well pal until you >> actually >> do it, you do not realize how much content goes missing. All of this free >> software that is designed for accessibility misses the mark. Just look at >> what we have now. Are you happy with accessibility now. Are we all done, >> don't need to do any more work on this, everything is accessible now. >> >> If it were easy everyone would do it. The problem here is that there are >> half a dozen different formats for electronic books, not to mention all of >> the free services that create books and each one of them, I repeat each >> one >> of them has to be laid out individually and that means the editors are >> editing editions over and over again. Until this gets standardized onto >> one >> format then publishers can challenge these laws telling them they have to >> do >> it for free. >> >> West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's >> property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to them! >> >> James >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Mon Aug 30 16:34:02 2010 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:34:02 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing In-Reply-To: References: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F6061AEB97@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov><4C753F47.7050501@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <1C60C7C4B8CA485A93167142594677DB@MarcPC> James said, You don't have to buy their book, you can use other sources. They are not providing a necessary service. Marc says, You don't have to come into my restaurant. There are other restaurants with ramps. I am not providing a necessary service, so I have no obligation to make my restaurant accessible. Would you accept this argument? James said, What is a reasonable accessibility? That is not defined. Marc says, My guess is you meant reasonable accommodation, but the fact that it is not defined does not mean service providers are absolved of all obligations. This is why courts, human rights tribunals, legislators, and so on exist, to define and clarify concepts like reasonable accommodation, undo hardship, discrimination, etc. James said, Why should anyone help you if they are not going to be paid to help you. People have other things to do than to work on making content free to the blind. Marc says, Why should I build a ramp so you can get in my restaurant? I have other things to do than to build free ramps for wheelchair users. James said, This is an extremely time consuming effort, it is not easy and you want it for free. If there is no incentive to help you other than the sense of trying to do something good for people and when people like you are demanding that they do this stuff with no reward then you get what you have today, nothing complete, content that is partially accessible deemed to be accessible. Marc says, Building ramps is an extremely time-consuming effort. It is not easy, and you want it for free. Therefore, I have no obligation to make my restaurant accessible. Do you think this is an acceptable argument? There is, of course, an incentive. It's a negative one: if you don't take reasonable steps to make your product accessible, in accordance with the law, then you will be penalized, and you will no longer be able to sell your product. Sounds like a pretty good incentive to me. If I'm a racist, what is my incentive to sell my product to people of different races? It is certainly not to be nice. My incentive is the same as that noted above: if I choose to discriminate, then I can't sell my product in America, period. You can argue that making printed books accessible costs *too* much, that it *does* constitute an undo hardship. I doubt that, but for all I know it could be the case. What you can't do, at least not if you want to consistently maintain that unjustifiable discrimination in the market place is wrong, is say that, because it's expensive, or because it's not easy, or because I'm insisting on equal access at an equal price, there are no obligations to take reasonable steps to make products and services accessible to all consumers. Best, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing > You don't have to buy their book, you can use other sources. They are not > providing a necessary service. What is a reasonable accessibility? That > is not defined. Oh sure we have section 508 which makes documents legally > accessible but not actually accessible. The conditions right now is to > make > some content accessible to the blind, it does not matter to the law that > all > of the content is not accessible only parts of it. And so you have this > horrible situation we have today where content is half accessible, there > are > gaps and there is no incentive to fix this gap. Why should anyone help you > if they are not going to be paid to help you. People have other things to > do than to work on making content free to the blind. This is an extremely > time consuming effort, it is not easy and you want it for free. If there > is > no incentive to help you other than the sense of trying to do something > good > for people and when people like you are demanding that they do this stuff > with no reward then you get what you have today, nothing complete, content > that is partially accessible deemed to be accessible. You have to rely on > organizations that are overeloaded with work to get out the content. That > is the state of things today. > > James > > On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Marc Workman > wrote: > >> James said, >> >> West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's >> property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to them! >> >> Marc says, >> Is it up to them if they don't want to sell their books to black people? >> If >> you decide to sell your goods to the public, their are constraints placed >> on >> you. Someone may own a restaurant, but ownership does not mean that she >> has >> no obligation to make the restaurant wheelchair accessible. I think it's >> a >> legitimate argument to say that publishers who sell their books to the >> public have obligations to take reasonable steps to make their products >> accessible to people with print disabilities. If taking these steps >> constitutes an undo hardship, which you seem to imply, then that's >> another >> question, but insisting on reasonable accommodations is not the same as >> seizing property. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:00 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing >> >> >> What? the costs of making a book accessible are excessive. That is >> the >>> problem here. Where do you get the idea that it is easy? Ah you hear >>> things >>> like you can make DAISY books in Microsoft Word well pal until you >>> actually >>> do it, you do not realize how much content goes missing. All of this >>> free >>> software that is designed for accessibility misses the mark. Just look >>> at >>> what we have now. Are you happy with accessibility now. Are we all >>> done, >>> don't need to do any more work on this, everything is accessible now. >>> >>> If it were easy everyone would do it. The problem here is that there >>> are >>> half a dozen different formats for electronic books, not to mention all >>> of >>> the free services that create books and each one of them, I repeat each >>> one >>> of them has to be laid out individually and that means the editors are >>> editing editions over and over again. Until this gets standardized onto >>> one >>> format then publishers can challenge these laws telling them they have >>> to >>> do >>> it for free. >>> >>> West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's >>> property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to them! >>> >>> James >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From withat at msn.com Mon Aug 30 16:45:11 2010 From: withat at msn.com (Johnston) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:45:11 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] lawyers in intellectual property References: <0F6BB300-96BA-492F-8F07-6B45DEF21D43@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hi Jorge, Lewis & Clark Law School in Portland has a fantastic IP certificate program. I am a 2L there, and couldn't be happier. They have bent over backward to provide any accommodation that I could imagine and need. This is the webpage describing the IP certificate program: http://www.lclark.edu/law/programs/intellectual_property_law/ The school's phone number is 503-768-6600. As for classes, a *patent* attorney needs to have a scientific or engineering degree. This is not required of lawyers doing trademark or copyright law. Interestingly, a person doesn't even need to be a lawyer to file patents: this is called a patent agent. Good luck! Jay in Portland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] lawyers in intellectual property > Thanks Fred. > I'm currently in high school, with the opportunity to take advanced > classes. > Any classes I should look out for? > Any classes I can take advantage of to give me a credit counting towards > the field or at least give me some knowledge foundation leading up to my > law study? > > Thanks. > > Jorge > > > > > > On Aug 29, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Fred Wright Lopez wrote: > >> Jorge: Berkley Law (Boalt Hall) Law School, University of California >> Berkeley is perhaps the nations best known intellectual property law >> school. It is constantly ranked as the number one law school in this >> area. However there are many other excellent law schools that offer >> intellectual law courses, seminars and clinical placements, such as >> Stanford Law and UCLA Law schools. I graduated from Boalt Hall many >> years back but largely practiced in the area of Federal criminal law. >> Although admissions is very competitive UC Berkley has strong reputation >> for assisting students with disabilities. Now retired, I use the law >> library at Boalt Hall frequently. Recently, I had an issue with low >> vision equipment (CCTV) at the law library, the school aced quickly to >> acquire additional equipment and make sure that is was readily >> accessible. Good luck and contact me if I can be of further assistance. >> >> Fred W. Lopez >> Boalt Hall Class 1979 >> >> >> >> On Aug 29, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Jorge Paez wrote: >> >>> Hello all: >>> I am thinking of studying intellectual proprerty law as my law >>> specialization choice in a few years. >>> Any blind lawyers in this list who study the field? >>> What problems did you come up against? >>> What advice would you give someone just starting out in the field? >>> >>> Any law univercities that are well known for accessibility? >>> >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge Paez > > > --- > President And CEO: > Paez Production Networks > > > > > > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication > is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the > subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this > message and/or any accompanying media. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/withat%40msn.com > From withat at msn.com Mon Aug 30 16:49:43 2010 From: withat at msn.com (Johnston) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:49:43 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing References: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F6061AEB97@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov><4C753F47.7050501@ameritech.net> <1C60C7C4B8CA485A93167142594677DB@MarcPC> Message-ID: Hello James, As a law school student, it isn't true that I have the option of not buying a particular publisher's text. Professors dictate which texts are required- period. As for an incentive on the publisher's part, there are plenty of things that aren't financially advantageous to companies but are necessary for consumers: take safety laws for example. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Workman" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing > James said, > You don't have to buy their book, you can use other sources. They are not > providing a necessary service. > > Marc says, > You don't have to come into my restaurant. There are other restaurants > with ramps. I am not providing a necessary service, so I have no > obligation to make my restaurant accessible. Would you accept this > argument? > > James said, > What is a reasonable accessibility? That is not defined. > > Marc says, > My guess is you meant reasonable accommodation, but the fact that it is > not defined does not mean service providers are absolved of all > obligations. This is why courts, human rights tribunals, legislators, and > so on exist, to define and clarify concepts like reasonable accommodation, > undo hardship, discrimination, etc. > > James said, > Why should anyone help you if they are not going to be paid to help you. > People have other things to do than to work on making content free to the > blind. > > Marc says, > Why should I build a ramp so you can get in my restaurant? I have other > things to do than to build free ramps for wheelchair users. > > James said, > This is an extremely time consuming effort, it is not easy and you want it > for free. If there is no incentive to help you other than the sense of > trying to do something good for people and when people like you are > demanding that they do this stuff with no reward then you get what you > have today, nothing complete, content that is partially accessible deemed > to be accessible. > > Marc says, > Building ramps is an extremely time-consuming effort. It is not easy, and > you want it for free. Therefore, I have no obligation to make my > restaurant accessible. Do you think this is an acceptable argument? > > There is, of course, an incentive. It's a negative one: if you don't take > reasonable steps to make your product accessible, in accordance with the > law, then you will be penalized, and you will no longer be able to sell > your product. Sounds like a pretty good incentive to me. If I'm a > racist, what is my incentive to sell my product to people of different > races? It is certainly not to be nice. My incentive is the same as that > noted above: if I choose to discriminate, then I can't sell my product in > America, period. > > You can argue that making printed books accessible costs *too* much, that > it *does* constitute an undo hardship. I doubt that, but for all I know > it could be the case. What you can't do, at least not if you want to > consistently maintain that unjustifiable discrimination in the market > place is wrong, is say that, because it's expensive, or because it's not > easy, or because I'm insisting on equal access at an equal price, there > are no obligations to take reasonable steps to make products and services > accessible to all consumers. > > Best, > > Marc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Pepper" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 8:32 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing > > >> You don't have to buy their book, you can use other sources. They are >> not >> providing a necessary service. What is a reasonable accessibility? That >> is not defined. Oh sure we have section 508 which makes documents legally >> accessible but not actually accessible. The conditions right now is to >> make >> some content accessible to the blind, it does not matter to the law that >> all >> of the content is not accessible only parts of it. And so you have this >> horrible situation we have today where content is half accessible, there >> are >> gaps and there is no incentive to fix this gap. Why should anyone help >> you >> if they are not going to be paid to help you. People have other things >> to >> do than to work on making content free to the blind. This is an extremely >> time consuming effort, it is not easy and you want it for free. If there >> is >> no incentive to help you other than the sense of trying to do something >> good >> for people and when people like you are demanding that they do this stuff >> with no reward then you get what you have today, nothing complete, >> content >> that is partially accessible deemed to be accessible. You have to rely >> on >> organizations that are overeloaded with work to get out the content. >> That >> is the state of things today. >> >> James >> >> On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Marc Workman >> wrote: >> >>> James said, >>> >>> West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's >>> property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to them! >>> >>> Marc says, >>> Is it up to them if they don't want to sell their books to black people? >>> If >>> you decide to sell your goods to the public, their are constraints >>> placed on >>> you. Someone may own a restaurant, but ownership does not mean that she >>> has >>> no obligation to make the restaurant wheelchair accessible. I think >>> it's a >>> legitimate argument to say that publishers who sell their books to the >>> public have obligations to take reasonable steps to make their products >>> accessible to people with print disabilities. If taking these steps >>> constitutes an undo hardship, which you seem to imply, then that's >>> another >>> question, but insisting on reasonable accommodations is not the same as >>> seizing property. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marc >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:00 PM >>> >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing >>> >>> >>> What? the costs of making a book accessible are excessive. That is >>> the >>>> problem here. Where do you get the idea that it is easy? Ah you hear >>>> things >>>> like you can make DAISY books in Microsoft Word well pal until you >>>> actually >>>> do it, you do not realize how much content goes missing. All of this >>>> free >>>> software that is designed for accessibility misses the mark. Just look >>>> at >>>> what we have now. Are you happy with accessibility now. Are we all >>>> done, >>>> don't need to do any more work on this, everything is accessible now. >>>> >>>> If it were easy everyone would do it. The problem here is that there >>>> are >>>> half a dozen different formats for electronic books, not to mention all >>>> of >>>> the free services that create books and each one of them, I repeat each >>>> one >>>> of them has to be laid out individually and that means the editors are >>>> editing editions over and over again. Until this gets standardized >>>> onto >>>> one >>>> format then publishers can challenge these laws telling them they have >>>> to >>>> do >>>> it for free. >>>> >>>> West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's >>>> property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to >>>> them! >>>> >>>> James >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/withat%40msn.com > From tom at tomladis.com Tue Aug 31 14:21:33 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:21:33 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing References: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F6061AEB97@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov><4C753F47.7050501@ameritech.net><1C60C7C4B8CA485A93167142594677DB@MarcPC> Message-ID: <3073BBC77A12470FA4BF267FBC2BEECE@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Hello all, My two cents is that publishers need to step up and do the right thing. If they have the money to make their stuff available on the iPhone, iPad, Mac, and multiple browsers, they should be willing to put in a little bit more effort and make a little bit less profit. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnston" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing > Hello James, > > As a law school student, it isn't true that I have the option of not > buying a particular publisher's text. Professors dictate which texts are > required- period. As for an incentive on the publisher's part, there are > plenty of things that aren't financially advantageous to companies but are > necessary for consumers: take safety laws for example. > > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marc Workman" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 9:34 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing > > >> James said, >> You don't have to buy their book, you can use other sources. They are >> not providing a necessary service. >> >> Marc says, >> You don't have to come into my restaurant. There are other restaurants >> with ramps. I am not providing a necessary service, so I have no >> obligation to make my restaurant accessible. Would you accept this >> argument? >> >> James said, >> What is a reasonable accessibility? That is not defined. >> >> Marc says, >> My guess is you meant reasonable accommodation, but the fact that it is >> not defined does not mean service providers are absolved of all >> obligations. This is why courts, human rights tribunals, legislators, and >> so on exist, to define and clarify concepts like reasonable >> accommodation, undo hardship, discrimination, etc. >> >> James said, >> Why should anyone help you if they are not going to be paid to help you. >> People have other things to do than to work on making content free to the >> blind. >> >> Marc says, >> Why should I build a ramp so you can get in my restaurant? I have other >> things to do than to build free ramps for wheelchair users. >> >> James said, >> This is an extremely time consuming effort, it is not easy and you want >> it for free. If there is no incentive to help you other than the sense >> of trying to do something good for people and when people like you are >> demanding that they do this stuff with no reward then you get what you >> have today, nothing complete, content that is partially accessible deemed >> to be accessible. >> >> Marc says, >> Building ramps is an extremely time-consuming effort. It is not easy, >> and you want it for free. Therefore, I have no obligation to make my >> restaurant accessible. Do you think this is an acceptable argument? >> >> There is, of course, an incentive. It's a negative one: if you don't >> take reasonable steps to make your product accessible, in accordance with >> the law, then you will be penalized, and you will no longer be able to >> sell your product. Sounds like a pretty good incentive to me. If I'm a >> racist, what is my incentive to sell my product to people of different >> races? It is certainly not to be nice. My incentive is the same as that >> noted above: if I choose to discriminate, then I can't sell my product in >> America, period. >> >> You can argue that making printed books accessible costs *too* much, that >> it *does* constitute an undo hardship. I doubt that, but for all I know >> it could be the case. What you can't do, at least not if you want to >> consistently maintain that unjustifiable discrimination in the market >> place is wrong, is say that, because it's expensive, or because it's not >> easy, or because I'm insisting on equal access at an equal price, there >> are no obligations to take reasonable steps to make products and services >> accessible to all consumers. >> >> Best, >> >> Marc >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "James Pepper" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 8:32 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing >> >> >>> You don't have to buy their book, you can use other sources. They are >>> not >>> providing a necessary service. What is a reasonable accessibility? >>> That >>> is not defined. Oh sure we have section 508 which makes documents >>> legally >>> accessible but not actually accessible. The conditions right now is to >>> make >>> some content accessible to the blind, it does not matter to the law that >>> all >>> of the content is not accessible only parts of it. And so you have this >>> horrible situation we have today where content is half accessible, there >>> are >>> gaps and there is no incentive to fix this gap. Why should anyone help >>> you >>> if they are not going to be paid to help you. People have other things >>> to >>> do than to work on making content free to the blind. This is an >>> extremely >>> time consuming effort, it is not easy and you want it for free. If >>> there is >>> no incentive to help you other than the sense of trying to do something >>> good >>> for people and when people like you are demanding that they do this >>> stuff >>> with no reward then you get what you have today, nothing complete, >>> content >>> that is partially accessible deemed to be accessible. You have to rely >>> on >>> organizations that are overeloaded with work to get out the content. >>> That >>> is the state of things today. >>> >>> James >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Marc Workman >>> wrote: >>> >>>> James said, >>>> >>>> West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's >>>> property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to >>>> them! >>>> >>>> Marc says, >>>> Is it up to them if they don't want to sell their books to black >>>> people? If >>>> you decide to sell your goods to the public, their are constraints >>>> placed on >>>> you. Someone may own a restaurant, but ownership does not mean that >>>> she has >>>> no obligation to make the restaurant wheelchair accessible. I think >>>> it's a >>>> legitimate argument to say that publishers who sell their books to the >>>> public have obligations to take reasonable steps to make their products >>>> accessible to people with print disabilities. If taking these steps >>>> constitutes an undo hardship, which you seem to imply, then that's >>>> another >>>> question, but insisting on reasonable accommodations is not the same as >>>> seizing property. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Marc >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:00 PM >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing >>>> >>>> >>>> What? the costs of making a book accessible are excessive. That is >>>> the >>>>> problem here. Where do you get the idea that it is easy? Ah you hear >>>>> things >>>>> like you can make DAISY books in Microsoft Word well pal until you >>>>> actually >>>>> do it, you do not realize how much content goes missing. All of this >>>>> free >>>>> software that is designed for accessibility misses the mark. Just >>>>> look at >>>>> what we have now. Are you happy with accessibility now. Are we all >>>>> done, >>>>> don't need to do any more work on this, everything is accessible now. >>>>> >>>>> If it were easy everyone would do it. The problem here is that there >>>>> are >>>>> half a dozen different formats for electronic books, not to mention >>>>> all of >>>>> the free services that create books and each one of them, I repeat >>>>> each >>>>> one >>>>> of them has to be laid out individually and that means the editors are >>>>> editing editions over and over again. Until this gets standardized >>>>> onto >>>>> one >>>>> format then publishers can challenge these laws telling them they have >>>>> to >>>>> do >>>>> it for free. >>>>> >>>>> West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's >>>>> property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to >>>>> them! >>>>> >>>>> James >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/withat%40msn.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From timandvickie at hotmail.com Sun Aug 1 22:03:54 2010 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 22:03:54 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK so, I have a consumer of mine who has had an issue with his electric company in the last week. They cut off his power and told him he owed money for a deposit he owed. Anways, he called and tried to talk to them about it. They told him they had sent him a bill and a notice regarding this. He says he enver recieved the notice, but that is beside the point. He told them he could not read the bill he recieved because he is blind. The customer service told him that it wasnt their problem because they are not requierd to make the bill accessible to him. Is this true? I thought SSA had just lost a case requiring them to start making their mailings accessible. As it turned out, I read his bill to him and it didn't say on the bill he owed the additional part of the deposit anyway, but even if it did he had no way of knowing it did. Tim From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 22:33:43 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 18:33:43 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills References: Message-ID: That is correct, SSA did loose a case, and they are required to make statements from SSA accessible to blind beneficiaries. However, we're dealing with this man's electric company! I'm not an atturney, Mabiee one of the lawyers on this list assist you in helping this man remidy the situation! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 6:03 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills > > OK so, I have a consumer of mine who has had an issue with his electric > company in the last week. They cut off his power and told him he owed > money for a deposit he owed. Anways, he called and tried to talk to them > about it. They told him they had sent him a bill and a notice regarding > this. He says he enver recieved the notice, but that is beside the point. > He told them he could not read the bill he recieved because he is blind. > The customer service told him that it wasnt their problem because they are > not requierd to make the bill accessible to him. Is this true? I thought > SSA had just lost a case requiring them to start making their mailings > accessible. As it turned out, I read his bill to him and it didn't say on > the bill he owed the additional part of the deposit anyway, but even if it > did he had no way of knowing it did. > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From k7uij at panix.com Mon Aug 2 01:27:13 2010 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 18:27:13 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills References: Message-ID: <29D0EF90D1924E13B32C763FFEBF4734@owner1e06aeb63> ADA probably requires that bills be in accesible form if this is "readily achievable". What that means is up for debate. However, I wonder if the guy is as helpless as he claims as he could have picked up the phone and ascertained his bill status (my utility company offers this service to anyone). Sometimes I think we tend to feel that we can ditch the necessity of exercising a bit of inteligence when it comes to dealing with the world and expect stuff to be handed to us on a platter because we are blind and can't handle the "normal" way of doing things. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 3:03 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills > > OK so, I have a consumer of mine who has had an issue with his electric > company in the last week. They cut off his power and told him he owed > money for a deposit he owed. Anways, he called and tried to talk to them > about it. They told him they had sent him a bill and a notice regarding > this. He says he enver recieved the notice, but that is beside the point. > He told them he could not read the bill he recieved because he is blind. > The customer service told him that it wasnt their problem because they are > not requierd to make the bill accessible to him. Is this true? I thought > SSA had just lost a case requiring them to start making their mailings > accessible. As it turned out, I read his bill to him and it didn't say on > the bill he owed the additional part of the deposit anyway, but even if it > did he had no way of knowing it did. > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 02:07:30 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 21:07:30 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <098001cb31e7$77e90f40$67bb2dc0$@com> Hey Tim. That light company sounds familiar. They give people the blues when they can see. If the guy is calling and they are telling him something different, then I think he needs to have some type of scanning programming so he can read his mail. He should be able to call and listen to an automated system I suppose as well. The case with the social security administration doesn't have an effect on what the utility companies do as the arm of the decision doesn't reach down. I could be wrong. Will -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tim Shaw Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 5:04 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills OK so, I have a consumer of mine who has had an issue with his electric company in the last week. They cut off his power and told him he owed money for a deposit he owed. Anways, he called and tried to talk to them about it. They told him they had sent him a bill and a notice regarding this. He says he enver recieved the notice, but that is beside the point. He told them he could not read the bill he recieved because he is blind. The customer service told him that it wasnt their problem because they are not requierd to make the bill accessible to him. Is this true? I thought SSA had just lost a case requiring them to start making their mailings accessible. As it turned out, I read his bill to him and it didn't say on the bill he owed the additional part of the deposit anyway, but even if it did he had no way of knowing it did. Tim _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 2 06:30:04 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 23:30:04 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] question In-Reply-To: References: <73D96AF4BC8F40EA9520E782101B7CE0@spike> Message-ID: The fact that you were 17 at the time was the key factor that started the process. In most states competency issues need to be reviewed by a court periodically. There are attorneys that specialize in these issues that work in the areas of competency and mental health law. I am in California but I may be able to find you some resources to try pursuing. You would need to demonstrate that you are now capable of handling your affairs and most likely need to have a new psychiatric evaluation. Feel free to contact me off list as needed. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 p Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 11:44 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question >I don't know how Florida did it, but they declared me incompetent > because I got involved with some old guy from a rehab center in > Daytona Beach. I was seventeen and my parents said I was "obsessed" > with various things including a young man in high school. Well, my > parents prevented me from having real hobbies and fascinations. > Because of this, I can't marry, can't live anywhere I want legally, and so > on. > Beth > > On 7/31/10, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >> I doubt that it would hold up in any state. Incompetence refers generally >> to >> a person who is mentally ill or severely disabled enough where they are >> not >> comprehending or able to take care of their lives. In many states a >> person >> would have to be placed on conservatorship and there are specific >> requirements today regarding conservatorships such as the due process >> that >> is required for a potential conservatee to go through such as the >> appointment of an attornehy and a hearing. At least that is how it is >> here >> in California and it was pretty much the same when I lived in Michigan. >> chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 5:49 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] question >> >> >>>I have a question. Can a person be declared incompetent just because they >>>are blind? >>> RJ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 09:46:26 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 05:46:26 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] question References: <73D96AF4BC8F40EA9520E782101B7CE0@spike> Message-ID: Beth, here are the steps needed as outlined in florida law. 744.331 Procedures to determine incapacity.-- (1) NOTICE OF PETITION TO DETERMINE INCAPACITY.--Notice of the filing of a petition to determine incapacity and a petition for the appointment of a guardian if any and copies of the petitions must be served on and read to the alleged incapacitated person. The notice and copies of the petitions must also be given to the attorney for the alleged incapacitated person, and served upon all next of kin identified in the petition. The notice must state the time and place of the hearing to inquire into the capacity of the alleged incapacitated person and that an attorney has been appointed to represent the person and that, if she or he is determined to be incapable of exercising certain rights, a guardian will be appointed to exercise those rights on her or his behalf. (2) ATTORNEY FOR THE ALLEGED INCAPACITATED PERSON.-- (a) When a court appoints an attorney for an alleged incapacitated person, the court must appoint the office of criminal conflict and civil regional counsel or a private attorney as prescribed in s. 27.511(6). A private attorney must be one who is included in the attorney registry compiled pursuant to s. 27.40. Appointments of private attorneys must be made on a rotating basis, taking into consideration conflicts arising under this chapter. (b) The court shall appoint an attorney for each person alleged to be incapacitated in all cases involving a petition for adjudication of incapacity. The alleged incapacitated person may substitute her or his own attorney for the attorney appointed by the court. (c) Any attorney representing an alleged incapacitated person may not serve as guardian of the alleged incapacitated person or as counsel for the guardian of the alleged incapacitated person or the petitioner. (d) Effective January 1, 2007, an attorney seeking to be appointed by a court for incapacity and guardianship proceedings must have completed a minimum of 8 hours of education in guardianship. A court may waive the initial training requirement for an attorney who has served as a court-appointed attorney in incapacity proceedings or as an attorney of record for guardians for not less than 3 years. The education requirement of this paragraph does not apply to the office of criminal conflict and civil regional counsel until July 1, 2008. (3) EXAMINING COMMITTEE.-- (a) Within 5 days after a petition for determination of incapacity has been filed, the court shall appoint an examining committee consisting of three members. One member must be a psychiatrist or other physician. The remaining members must be either a psychologist, gerontologist, another psychiatrist, or other physician, a registered nurse, nurse practitioner, licensed social worker, a person with an advanced degree in gerontology from an accredited institution of higher education, or other person who by knowledge, skill, experience, training, or education may, in the court's discretion, advise the court in the form of an expert opinion. One of three members of the committee must have knowledge of the type of incapacity alleged in the petition. Unless good cause is shown, the attending or family physician may not be appointed to the committee. If the attending or family physician is available for consultation, the committee must consult with the physician. Members of the examining committee may not be related to or associated with one another, with the petitioner, with counsel for the petitioner or the proposed guardian, or with the person alleged to be totally or partially incapacitated. A member may not be employed by any private or governmental agency that has custody of, or furnishes, services or subsidies, directly or indirectly, to the person or the family of the person alleged to be incapacitated or for whom a guardianship is sought. A petitioner may not serve as a member of the examining committee. Members of the examining committee must be able to communicate, either directly or through an interpreter, in the language that the alleged incapacitated person speaks or to communicate in a medium understandable to the alleged incapacitated person if she or he is able to communicate. The clerk of the court shall send notice of the appointment to each person appointed no later than 3 days after the court's appointment. (b) A person who has been appointed to serve as a member of an examining committee to examine an alleged incapacitated person may not thereafter be appointed as a guardian for the person who was the subject of the examination. (c) Each person appointed to an examining committee must file an affidavit with the court stating that he or she has completed the required courses or will do so no later than 4 months after his or her initial appointment. Each year, the chief judge of the circuit must prepare a list of persons qualified to be members of an examining committee. (d) A member of an examining committee must complete a minimum of 4 hours of initial training. The person must complete 2 hours of continuing education during each 2-year period after the initial training. The initial training and continuing education program must be developed under the supervision of the Statewide Public Guardianship Office, in consultation with the Florida Conference of Circuit Court Judges; the Elder Law and the Real Property, Probate and Trust Law sections of The Florida Bar; the Florida State Guardianship Association; and the Florida Guardianship Foundation. The court may waive the initial training requirement for a person who has served for not less than 5 years on examining committees. If a person wishes to obtain his or her continuing education on the Internet or by watching a video course, the person must first obtain the approval of the chief judge before taking an Internet or video course. (e) Each member of the examining committee shall examine the person. Each examining committee member must determine the alleged incapacitated person's ability to exercise those rights specified in s. 744.3215. In addition to the examination, each examining committee member must have access to, and may consider, previous examinations of the person, including, but not limited to, habilitation plans, school records, and psychological and psychosocial reports voluntarily offered for use by the alleged incapacitated person. Each member of the examining committee must submit a report within 15 days after appointment. (f) The examination of the alleged incapacitated person must include a comprehensive examination, a report of which shall be filed by each examining committee member as part of his or her written report. The comprehensive examination report should be an essential element, but not necessarily the only element, used in making a capacity and guardianship decision. The comprehensive examination must include, if indicated: 1. A physical examination; 2. A mental health examination; and 3. A functional assessment. If any of these three aspects of the examination is not indicated or cannot be accomplished for any reason, the written report must explain the reasons for its omission. (g) Each committee member's written report must include: 1. To the extent possible, a diagnosis, prognosis, and recommended course of treatment. 2. An evaluation of the alleged incapacitated person's ability to retain her or his rights, including, without limitation, the rights to marry; vote; contract; manage or dispose of property; have a driver's license; determine her or his residence; consent to medical treatment; and make decisions affecting her or his social environment. 3. The results of the comprehensive examination and the committee member's assessment of information provided by the attending or family physician, if any. 4. A description of any matters with respect to which the person lacks the capacity to exercise rights, the extent of that incapacity, and the factual basis for the determination that the person lacks that capacity. 5. The names of all persons present during the time the committee member conducted his or her examination. If a person other than the person who is the subject of the examination supplies answers posed to the alleged incapacitated person, the report must include the response and the name of the person supplying the answer. 6. The signature of the committee member and the date and time the member conducted his or her examination. (h) A copy of each committee member's report must be served on the petitioner and on the attorney for the alleged incapacitated person within 3 days after the report is filed and at least 5 days before the hearing on the petition. (4) DISMISSAL OF PETITION.--If a majority of the examining committee members conclude that the alleged incapacitated person is not incapacitated in any respect, the court shall dismiss the petition. (5) ADJUDICATORY HEARING.-- (a) Upon appointment of the examining committee, the court shall set the date upon which the petition will be heard. The date for the adjudicatory hearing must be set no more than 14 days after the filing of the reports of the examining committee members, unless good cause is shown. The adjudicatory hearing must be conducted at the time and place specified in the notice of hearing and in a manner consistent with due process. (b) The alleged incapacitated person must be present at the adjudicatory hearing, unless waived by the alleged incapacitated person or the person's attorney or unless good cause can be shown for her or his absence. Determination of good cause rests in the sound discretion of the court. (c) In the adjudicatory hearing on a petition alleging incapacity, the partial or total incapacity of the person must be established by clear and convincing evidence. (6) ORDER DETERMINING INCAPACITY.--If, after making findings of fact on the basis of clear and convincing evidence, the court finds that a person is incapacitated with respect to the exercise of a particular right, or all rights, the court shall enter a written order determining such incapacity. A person is determined to be incapacitated only with respect to those rights specified in the order. (a) The court shall make the following findings: 1. The exact nature and scope of the person's incapacities; 2. The exact areas in which the person lacks capacity to make informed decisions about care and treatment services or to meet the essential requirements for her or his physical or mental health or safety; 3. The specific legal disabilities to which the person is subject; and 4. The specific rights that the person is incapable of exercising. (b) When an order determines that a person is incapable of exercising delegable rights, the court must consider and find whether there is an alternative to guardianship that will sufficiently address the problems of the incapacitated person. A guardian must be appointed to exercise the incapacitated person's delegable rights unless the court finds there is an alternative. A guardian may not be appointed if the court finds there is an alternative to guardianship which will sufficiently address the problems of the incapacitated person. (c) In determining that a person is totally incapacitated, the order must contain findings of fact demonstrating that the individual is totally without capacity to care for herself or himself or her or his property. (d) An order adjudicating a person to be incapacitated constitutes proof of such incapacity until further order of the court. (e) After the order determining that the person is incapacitated has been filed with the clerk, it must be served on the incapacitated person. The person is deemed incapacitated only to the extent of the findings of the court. The filing of the order is notice of the incapacity. An incapacitated person retains all rights not specifically removed by the court. (f) Upon the filing of a verified statement by an interested person stating: 1. That he or she has a good faith belief that the alleged incapacitated person's trust, trust amendment, or durable power of attorney is invalid; and 2. A reasonable factual basis for that belief, the trust, trust amendment, or durable power of attorney shall not be deemed to be an alternative to the appointment of a guardian. The appointment of a guardian does not limit the court's power to determine that certain authority granted by a durable power of attorney is to remain exercisable by the attorney in fact. (7) FEES.-- (a) The examining committee and any attorney appointed under subsection (2) are entitled to reasonable fees to be determined by the court. (b) The fees awarded under paragraph (a) shall be paid by the guardian from the property of the ward or, if the ward is indigent, by the state. The state shall have a creditor's claim against the guardianship property for any amounts paid under this section. The state may file its claim within 90 days after the entry of an order awarding attorney ad litem fees. If the state does not file its claim within the 90-day period, the state is thereafter barred from asserting the claim. Upon petition by the state for payment of the claim, the court shall enter an order authorizing immediate payment out of the property of the ward. The state shall keep a record of the payments. (c) If the petition is dismissed, costs and attorney's fees of the proceeding may be assessed against the petitioner if the court finds the petition to have been filed in bad faith. History.--ss. 9, 26, ch. 75-222; s. 4, ch. 77-328; s. 1, ch. 78-342; s. 6, ch. 79-221; s. 35, ch. 89-96; s. 20, ch. 90-271; s. 4, ch. 91-303; s. 5, ch. 91-306; s. 7, ch. 96-354; s. 1783, ch. 97-102; s. 76, ch. 2004-265; s. 4, ch. 2006-77; s. 11, ch. 2006-178; s. 44, ch. 2006-217; s. 28, ch. 2007-62. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:30 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question > The fact that you were 17 at the time was the key factor that started the > process. In most states competency issues need to be reviewed by a court > periodically. There are attorneys that specialize in these issues that > work in the areas of competency and mental health law. I am in California > but I may be able to find you some resources to try pursuing. You would > need to demonstrate that you are now capable of handling your affairs and > most likely need to have a new psychiatric evaluation. Feel free to > contact me off list as needed. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 p Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 11:44 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question > > >>I don't know how Florida did it, but they declared me incompetent >> because I got involved with some old guy from a rehab center in >> Daytona Beach. I was seventeen and my parents said I was "obsessed" >> with various things including a young man in high school. Well, my >> parents prevented me from having real hobbies and fascinations. >> Because of this, I can't marry, can't live anywhere I want legally, and >> so on. >> Beth >> >> On 7/31/10, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >>> I doubt that it would hold up in any state. Incompetence refers >>> generally to >>> a person who is mentally ill or severely disabled enough where they are >>> not >>> comprehending or able to take care of their lives. In many states a >>> person >>> would have to be placed on conservatorship and there are specific >>> requirements today regarding conservatorships such as the due process >>> that >>> is required for a potential conservatee to go through such as the >>> appointment of an attornehy and a hearing. At least that is how it is >>> here >>> in California and it was pretty much the same when I lived in Michigan. >>> chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >>> 1237 P Street >>> Fresno ca 93721 >>> 559-266-9237 >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 5:49 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] question >>> >>> >>>>I have a question. Can a person be declared incompetent just because >>>>they >>>>are blind? >>>> RJ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: transparent_spacer_1X1.gif Type: image/gif Size: 43 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: main_footer_01.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1867 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: main_footer_03.gif Type: image/gif Size: 385 bytes Desc: not available URL: From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 11:33:28 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 05:33:28 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] question In-Reply-To: References: <73D96AF4BC8F40EA9520E782101B7CE0@spike> Message-ID: NOwhere does it say the committee has to know about disability and blindness issues specifically, which gives rise to some problems. Mr. Krugman, feel free to contact me off list at my e-mail address, given below, and I'd love to have some resources. Perhaps the ACLU and NFB can work hand in hand to help me pursue this because I want to marry, consent to medical treatment, and so on. I mean, right now I'm in a relationship right now with another person whose name I will not give for security reasons, and he's sweet. But he has shown concerns about my right to marry and my abilities because I lack adequate counseling and therapy. Why? Because an insurance company won't let me see the counselor on site at CCB. So that's just it. RJ, I said what I said about Florida law and guardianship proceedings. I think they should add that blindness should not affect the committee's decision on a guardian or incapacitation of the alleged incapacitated person. Blindness is a physical incapacity, not a mental one. Beth Taurasi thebluesisloose at gmail.com 321-986-7665 On 8/2/10, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Beth, here are the steps needed as outlined in florida law. > 744.331 Procedures to determine incapacity.-- > > (1) NOTICE OF PETITION TO DETERMINE > INCAPACITY.--Notice of the filing of a petition to determine incapacity and > a petition for the appointment of a guardian if any and copies of the > petitions must be served on and read to the alleged incapacitated person. > The notice and copies of the petitions must also be given to the attorney > for the alleged incapacitated person, and served upon all next of kin > identified in the petition. The notice must state the time and place of the > hearing to inquire into the capacity of the alleged incapacitated person and > that an attorney has been appointed to represent the person and that, if she > or he is determined to be incapable of exercising certain rights, a guardian > will be appointed to exercise those rights on her or his behalf. > > (2) ATTORNEY FOR THE ALLEGED INCAPACITATED > PERSON.-- > > (a) When a court appoints an attorney for an > alleged incapacitated person, the court must appoint the office of criminal > conflict and civil regional counsel or a private attorney as prescribed in > s. 27.511(6). A private attorney must be one who is included in the attorney > registry compiled pursuant to s. 27.40. Appointments of private attorneys > must be made on a rotating basis, taking into consideration conflicts > arising under this chapter. > > (b) The court shall appoint an attorney for each > person alleged to be incapacitated in all cases involving a petition for > adjudication of incapacity. The alleged incapacitated person may substitute > her or his own attorney for the attorney appointed by the court. > > (c) Any attorney representing an alleged > incapacitated person may not serve as guardian of the alleged incapacitated > person or as counsel for the guardian of the alleged incapacitated person or > the petitioner. > > (d) Effective January 1, 2007, an attorney seeking > to be appointed by a court for incapacity and guardianship proceedings must > have completed a minimum of 8 hours of education in guardianship. A court > may waive the initial training requirement for an attorney who has served as > a court-appointed attorney in incapacity proceedings or as an attorney of > record for guardians for not less than 3 years. The education requirement of > this paragraph does not apply to the office of criminal conflict and civil > regional counsel until July 1, 2008. > > (3) EXAMINING COMMITTEE.-- > > (a) Within 5 days after a petition for > determination of incapacity has been filed, the court shall appoint an > examining committee consisting of three members. One member must be a > psychiatrist or other physician. The remaining members must be either a > psychologist, gerontologist, another psychiatrist, or other physician, a > registered nurse, nurse practitioner, licensed social worker, a person with > an advanced degree in gerontology from an accredited institution of higher > education, or other person who by knowledge, skill, experience, training, or > education may, in the court's discretion, advise the court in the form of an > expert opinion. One of three members of the committee must have knowledge of > the type of incapacity alleged in the petition. Unless good cause is shown, > the attending or family physician may not be appointed to the committee. If > the attending or family physician is available for consultation, the > committee must consult with the physician. Members of the examining > committee may not be related to or associated with one another, with the > petitioner, with counsel for the petitioner or the proposed guardian, or > with the person alleged to be totally or partially incapacitated. A member > may not be employed by any private or governmental agency that has custody > of, or furnishes, services or subsidies, directly or indirectly, to the > person or the family of the person alleged to be incapacitated or for whom a > guardianship is sought. A petitioner may not serve as a member of the > examining committee. Members of the examining committee must be able to > communicate, either directly or through an interpreter, in the language that > the alleged incapacitated person speaks or to communicate in a medium > understandable to the alleged incapacitated person if she or he is able to > communicate. The clerk of the court shall send notice of the appointment to > each person appointed no later than 3 days after the court's appointment. > > (b) A person who has been appointed to serve as a > member of an examining committee to examine an alleged incapacitated person > may not thereafter be appointed as a guardian for the person who was the > subject of the examination. > > (c) Each person appointed to an examining committee > must file an affidavit with the court stating that he or she has completed > the required courses or will do so no later than 4 months after his or her > initial appointment. Each year, the chief judge of the circuit must prepare > a list of persons qualified to be members of an examining committee. > > (d) A member of an examining committee must > complete a minimum of 4 hours of initial training. The person must complete > 2 hours of continuing education during each 2-year period after the initial > training. The initial training and continuing education program must be > developed under the supervision of the Statewide Public Guardianship Office, > in consultation with the Florida Conference of Circuit Court Judges; the > Elder Law and the Real Property, Probate and Trust Law sections of The > Florida Bar; the Florida State Guardianship Association; and the Florida > Guardianship Foundation. The court may waive the initial training > requirement for a person who has served for not less than 5 years on > examining committees. If a person wishes to obtain his or her continuing > education on the Internet or by watching a video course, the person must > first obtain the approval of the chief judge before taking an Internet or > video course. > > (e) Each member of the examining committee shall > examine the person. Each examining committee member must determine the > alleged incapacitated person's ability to exercise those rights specified in > s. 744.3215. In addition to the examination, each examining committee member > must have access to, and may consider, previous examinations of the person, > including, but not limited to, habilitation plans, school records, and > psychological and psychosocial reports voluntarily offered for use by the > alleged incapacitated person. Each member of the examining committee must > submit a report within 15 days after appointment. > > (f) The examination of the alleged incapacitated > person must include a comprehensive examination, a report of which shall be > filed by each examining committee member as part of his or her written > report. The comprehensive examination report should be an essential element, > but not necessarily the only element, used in making a capacity and > guardianship decision. The comprehensive examination must include, if > indicated: > > 1. A physical examination; > > 2. A mental health examination; and > > 3. A functional assessment. > > If any of these three aspects of the examination is > not indicated or cannot be accomplished for any reason, the written report > must explain the reasons for its omission. > > (g) Each committee member's written report must > include: > > 1. To the extent possible, a diagnosis, prognosis, > and recommended course of treatment. > > 2. An evaluation of the alleged incapacitated > person's ability to retain her or his rights, including, without limitation, > the rights to marry; vote; contract; manage or dispose of property; have a > driver's license; determine her or his residence; consent to medical > treatment; and make decisions affecting her or his social environment. > > 3. The results of the comprehensive examination and > the committee member's assessment of information provided by the attending > or family physician, if any. > > 4. A description of any matters with respect to > which the person lacks the capacity to exercise rights, the extent of that > incapacity, and the factual basis for the determination that the person > lacks that capacity. > > 5. The names of all persons present during the time > the committee member conducted his or her examination. If a person other > than the person who is the subject of the examination supplies answers posed > to the alleged incapacitated person, the report must include the response > and the name of the person supplying the answer. > > 6. The signature of the committee member and the > date and time the member conducted his or her examination. > > (h) A copy of each committee member's report must > be served on the petitioner and on the attorney for the alleged > incapacitated person within 3 days after the report is filed and at least 5 > days before the hearing on the petition. > > (4) DISMISSAL OF PETITION.--If a majority of the > examining committee members conclude that the alleged incapacitated person > is not incapacitated in any respect, the court shall dismiss the petition. > > (5) ADJUDICATORY HEARING.-- > > (a) Upon appointment of the examining committee, > the court shall set the date upon which the petition will be heard. The date > for the adjudicatory hearing must be set no more than 14 days after the > filing of the reports of the examining committee members, unless good cause > is shown. The adjudicatory hearing must be conducted at the time and place > specified in the notice of hearing and in a manner consistent with due > process. > > (b) The alleged incapacitated person must be > present at the adjudicatory hearing, unless waived by the alleged > incapacitated person or the person's attorney or unless good cause can be > shown for her or his absence. Determination of good cause rests in the sound > discretion of the court. > > (c) In the adjudicatory hearing on a petition > alleging incapacity, the partial or total incapacity of the person must be > established by clear and convincing evidence. > > (6) ORDER DETERMINING INCAPACITY.--If, after making > findings of fact on the basis of clear and convincing evidence, the court > finds that a person is incapacitated with respect to the exercise of a > particular right, or all rights, the court shall enter a written order > determining such incapacity. A person is determined to be incapacitated only > with respect to those rights specified in the order. > > (a) The court shall make the following findings: > > 1. The exact nature and scope of the person's > incapacities; > > 2. The exact areas in which the person lacks > capacity to make informed decisions about care and treatment services or to > meet the essential requirements for her or his physical or mental health or > safety; > > 3. The specific legal disabilities to which the > person is subject; and > > 4. The specific rights that the person is incapable > of exercising. > > (b) When an order determines that a person is > incapable of exercising delegable rights, the court must consider and find > whether there is an alternative to guardianship that will sufficiently > address the problems of the incapacitated person. A guardian must be > appointed to exercise the incapacitated person's delegable rights unless the > court finds there is an alternative. A guardian may not be appointed if the > court finds there is an alternative to guardianship which will sufficiently > address the problems of the incapacitated person. > > (c) In determining that a person is totally > incapacitated, the order must contain findings of fact demonstrating that > the individual is totally without capacity to care for herself or himself or > her or his property. > > (d) An order adjudicating a person to be > incapacitated constitutes proof of such incapacity until further order of > the court. > > (e) After the order determining that the person is > incapacitated has been filed with the clerk, it must be served on the > incapacitated person. The person is deemed incapacitated only to the extent > of the findings of the court. The filing of the order is notice of the > incapacity. An incapacitated person retains all rights not specifically > removed by the court. > > (f) Upon the filing of a verified statement by an > interested person stating: > > 1. That he or she has a good faith belief that the > alleged incapacitated person's trust, trust amendment, or durable power of > attorney is invalid; and > > 2. A reasonable factual basis for that belief, > > the trust, trust amendment, or durable power of > attorney shall not be deemed to be an alternative to the appointment of a > guardian. The appointment of a guardian does not limit the court's power to > determine that certain authority granted by a durable power of attorney is > to remain exercisable by the attorney in fact. > > (7) FEES.-- > > (a) The examining committee and any attorney > appointed under subsection (2) are entitled to reasonable fees to be > determined by the court. > > (b) The fees awarded under paragraph (a) shall be > paid by the guardian from the property of the ward or, if the ward is > indigent, by the state. The state shall have a creditor's claim against the > guardianship property for any amounts paid under this section. The state may > file its claim within 90 days after the entry of an order awarding attorney > ad litem fees. If the state does not file its claim within the 90-day > period, the state is thereafter barred from asserting the claim. Upon > petition by the state for payment of the claim, the court shall enter an > order authorizing immediate payment out of the property of the ward. The > state shall keep a record of the payments. > > (c) If the petition is dismissed, costs and > attorney's fees of the proceeding may be assessed against the petitioner if > the court finds the petition to have been filed in bad faith. > > History.--ss. 9, 26, ch. 75-222; s. 4, ch. 77-328; > s. 1, ch. 78-342; s. 6, ch. 79-221; s. 35, ch. 89-96; s. 20, ch. 90-271; s. > 4, ch. 91-303; s. 5, ch. 91-306; s. 7, ch. 96-354; s. 1783, ch. 97-102; s. > 76, ch. 2004-265; s. 4, ch. 2006-77; s. 11, ch. 2006-178; s. 44, ch. > 2006-217; s. 28, ch. 2007-62. > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:30 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question > > >> The fact that you were 17 at the time was the key factor that started the >> process. In most states competency issues need to be reviewed by a court >> periodically. There are attorneys that specialize in these issues that >> work in the areas of competency and mental health law. I am in California >> but I may be able to find you some resources to try pursuing. You would >> need to demonstrate that you are now capable of handling your affairs and >> most likely need to have a new psychiatric evaluation. Feel free to >> contact me off list as needed. >> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >> 1237 p Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 11:44 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question >> >> >>>I don't know how Florida did it, but they declared me incompetent >>> because I got involved with some old guy from a rehab center in >>> Daytona Beach. I was seventeen and my parents said I was "obsessed" >>> with various things including a young man in high school. Well, my >>> parents prevented me from having real hobbies and fascinations. >>> Because of this, I can't marry, can't live anywhere I want legally, and >>> so on. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 7/31/10, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: >>>> I doubt that it would hold up in any state. Incompetence refers >>>> generally to >>>> a person who is mentally ill or severely disabled enough where they are >>>> not >>>> comprehending or able to take care of their lives. In many states a >>>> person >>>> would have to be placed on conservatorship and there are specific >>>> requirements today regarding conservatorships such as the due process >>>> that >>>> is required for a potential conservatee to go through such as the >>>> appointment of an attornehy and a hearing. At least that is how it is >>>> here >>>> in California and it was pretty much the same when I lived in Michigan. >>>> chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >>>> 1237 P Street >>>> Fresno ca 93721 >>>> 559-266-9237 >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 5:49 AM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] question >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have a question. Can a person be declared incompetent just because >>>>>they >>>>>are blind? >>>>> RJ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> > From LBlake at nfb.org Mon Aug 2 16:07:00 2010 From: LBlake at nfb.org (Blake, Lou Ann) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 12:07:00 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Plans are well underway for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium, "Bridging the Gap between the Civil Rights Movements and the Disability Rights Movement." The 2011 symposium will be co-hosted by the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute and the American Association of People with Disabilities. Mark your calendar to attend the Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute on April 14-15, 2011. The symposium will conclude at approximately 12:30 PM on Friday, April 15. Be sure to visit the law symposium Web page at http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp during the coming months for agenda, registration, and hotel information. You will also find links to recordings of the 2008, 2009, and 2010 symposia on this Web page. The proceedings of the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium, held this past April, will be published by the Burton Blatt Institute. Additional information on availability of the proceedings will be included on the symposium Web page in the near future. To view online the full text articles from the 2008 symposium volume or to purchase the 2009 symposium volume, go to the Texas Journal on Civil Liberties and Civil Rights Web site at: http://www.utexas.edu/law/publications/issn/tjclcr/tjclcr_info.html. For additional information about the Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium, please contact: Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 3 06:53:01 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 23:53:01 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8233ED75781D457595246D157FA2133D@spike> I would think that this would be grounds for an ADA complaint with the Department of Justice or a grievance with the state agency in your state that regulates public utilities. Here in California its the aPublic Utilities Commission. not sure though what it is in Texas. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 3:03 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills > > OK so, I have a consumer of mine who has had an issue with his electric > company in the last week. They cut off his power and told him he owed > money for a deposit he owed. Anways, he called and tried to talk to them > about it. They told him they had sent him a bill and a notice regarding > this. He says he enver recieved the notice, but that is beside the point. > He told them he could not read the bill he recieved because he is blind. > The customer service told him that it wasnt their problem because they are > not requierd to make the bill accessible to him. Is this true? I thought > SSA had just lost a case requiring them to start making their mailings > accessible. As it turned out, I read his bill to him and it didn't say on > the bill he owed the additional part of the deposit anyway, but even if it > did he had no way of knowing it did. > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From fwlopez at comcast.net Tue Aug 3 20:49:15 2010 From: fwlopez at comcast.net (Fred Wright Lopez) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish to raise two issues: First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or another Western state. Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this important event. Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > Jacobus tenBroe From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Aug 3 21:33:59 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:33:59 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D7177@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Fred - As a public defender in Arizona (not much money, even less travel time), thanks for raising these points! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Fred Wright Lopez Sent: Tuesday, 03 August, 2010 1:49 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish to raise two issues: First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or another Western state. Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this important event. Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > Jacobus tenBroe _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 3 21:35:49 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:35:49 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <005c01cb3353$eda1fef0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Fred and everyone, With such a long lead time there's no reason why you can't make plans now to attend the 2011 Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium in person to avail yourself of all it has to offer. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the announcement was made now to allow those wishing to attend to begin making their arrangements to be there in the flesh. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wright Lopez" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish to raise two issues: First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or another Western state. Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this important event. Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > Jacobus tenBroe _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From billreif at ameritech.net Tue Aug 3 21:44:18 2010 From: billreif at ameritech.net (Bill Reif) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 16:44:18 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4C588DB2.2090208@ameritech.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Tue Aug 3 21:49:27 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:49:27 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills In-Reply-To: <8233ED75781D457595246D157FA2133D@spike> References: <8233ED75781D457595246D157FA2133D@spike> Message-ID: <004501cb3355$c03a6400$40af2c00$@com> Hopefully, before filing a complaint...maybe this person could attempt to speak with a manager first to explain the situation. Most of those people who answer the phones have no idea what the law is. Seems that would be the appropriate step initially. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:53 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills I would think that this would be grounds for an ADA complaint with the Department of Justice or a grievance with the state agency in your state that regulates public utilities. Here in California its the aPublic Utilities Commission. not sure though what it is in Texas. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 3:03 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of Bills > > OK so, I have a consumer of mine who has had an issue with his electric > company in the last week. They cut off his power and told him he owed > money for a deposit he owed. Anways, he called and tried to talk to them > about it. They told him they had sent him a bill and a notice regarding > this. He says he enver recieved the notice, but that is beside the point. > He told them he could not read the bill he recieved because he is blind. > The customer service told him that it wasnt their problem because they are > not requierd to make the bill accessible to him. Is this true? I thought > SSA had just lost a case requiring them to start making their mailings > accessible. As it turned out, I read his bill to him and it didn't say on > the bill he owed the additional part of the deposit anyway, but even if it > did he had no way of knowing it did. > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Aug 3 22:39:51 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 15:39:51 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <005c01cb3353$eda1fef0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> <005c01cb3353$eda1fef0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D7179@EVS02.central.pima.gov> I can only speak for myself and other public agency attorneys whose office funding sources are extremely tight, but here goes: In our office, like many other government agencies at least in Arizona, only in-state seminars which directly touch on our area of practice or are required by the State Bar yearly CLE quota rules are reimbursed. This includes travel costs and the ability to use work time, as opposed to personal time (unpaid) or vacation time (limited). I would therefore have to pay the entire cost, from registration through travel expenses, and be required to utilize vacation time. As a public attorney, I can neither truly afford that nor expect my family to forego vacation time because of the fact that the seminar is across the country from here. Nevertheless, I am interested in the subject matter and would love to somehow participate, even if it is simply through the webinar format. Advance notice does nothing to help the time / expense issue, which could be greatly reduced by the use of modern technology. Just my two cents worth.... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Tuesday, 03 August, 2010 2:36 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Hello Fred and everyone, With such a long lead time there's no reason why you can't make plans now to attend the 2011 Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium in person to avail yourself of all it has to offer. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the announcement was made now to allow those wishing to attend to begin making their arrangements to be there in the flesh. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wright Lopez" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish to raise two issues: First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or another Western state. Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this important event. Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > Jacobus tenBroe _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sb cglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Tue Aug 3 22:54:42 2010 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 15:54:42 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D7179@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net><005c01cb3353$eda1fef0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D7179@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F605F3DB72@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Thanks Susan, my sentiments exactly. Sincerely, Timothy Ford Another state government lawyer who otherwise would not be able to participate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:40 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium I can only speak for myself and other public agency attorneys whose office funding sources are extremely tight, but here goes: In our office, like many other government agencies at least in Arizona, only in-state seminars which directly touch on our area of practice or are required by the State Bar yearly CLE quota rules are reimbursed. This includes travel costs and the ability to use work time, as opposed to personal time (unpaid) or vacation time (limited). I would therefore have to pay the entire cost, from registration through travel expenses, and be required to utilize vacation time. As a public attorney, I can neither truly afford that nor expect my family to forego vacation time because of the fact that the seminar is across the country from here. Nevertheless, I am interested in the subject matter and would love to somehow participate, even if it is simply through the webinar format. Advance notice does nothing to help the time / expense issue, which could be greatly reduced by the use of modern technology. Just my two cents worth.... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Tuesday, 03 August, 2010 2:36 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Hello Fred and everyone, With such a long lead time there's no reason why you can't make plans now to attend the 2011 Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium in person to avail yourself of all it has to offer. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the announcement was made now to allow those wishing to attend to begin making their arrangements to be there in the flesh. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wright Lopez" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish to raise two issues: First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or another Western state. Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this important event. Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > Jacobus tenBroe _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sb cglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov From AZNOR99 at aol.com Wed Aug 4 01:39:05 2010 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 21:39:05 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Message-ID: Part of the reason we have the Symposium at the NFB Headquarters is that the costs associated with such a conference is substantially lower than if we have it elsewhere. As a nonprofit organization very heavily funded by member donations and fundraising, it is in our best interests to keep costs down. Thus, by holding the event at our own space, we avoid paying conference space rental costs and cut down on lodging expenses by accommodating some of our speakers in the building. Moreover, our in-house catering team is substantially more affordable than a hotel or outside caterer. Finally, Jacobus TenBroek was the first President of the National Federation of the Blind, and thus it is appropriate to hold a Symposium named in his honor and implementing his legacy at the headquarters of the National Federation of the Blind. Ronza In a message dated 8/3/2010 6:55:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov writes: Thanks Susan, my sentiments exactly. Sincerely, Timothy Ford Another state government lawyer who otherwise would not be able to participate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:40 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium I can only speak for myself and other public agency attorneys whose office funding sources are extremely tight, but here goes: In our office, like many other government agencies at least in Arizona, only in-state seminars which directly touch on our area of practice or are required by the State Bar yearly CLE quota rules are reimbursed. This includes travel costs and the ability to use work time, as opposed to personal time (unpaid) or vacation time (limited). I would therefore have to pay the entire cost, from registration through travel expenses, and be required to utilize vacation time. As a public attorney, I can neither truly afford that nor expect my family to forego vacation time because of the fact that the seminar is across the country from here. Nevertheless, I am interested in the subject matter and would love to somehow participate, even if it is simply through the webinar format. Advance notice does nothing to help the time / expense issue, which could be greatly reduced by the use of modern technology. Just my two cents worth.... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Tuesday, 03 August, 2010 2:36 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Hello Fred and everyone, With such a long lead time there's no reason why you can't make plans now to attend the 2011 Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium in person to avail yourself of all it has to offer. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the announcement was made now to allow those wishing to attend to begin making their arrangements to be there in the flesh. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wright Lopez" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish to raise two issues: First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or another Western state. Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this important event. Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > Jacobus tenBroe _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sb cglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Wed Aug 4 14:26:59 2010 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 07:26:59 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F605F3DB8E@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> I can appreciate the cost advantage to the conference holder, but the constant use of Baltimore as the site imposes a significant barrier to those of us who are located on the West Coast. That said, the option of "broadcasting" the conference over the Internet would go a long way to providing a reasonable alternative to live attendance. The technology is certainly there and should be well within the technical capabilities of the event sponsor. Sincerely, Tim Ford -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 6:39 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Part of the reason we have the Symposium at the NFB Headquarters is that the costs associated with such a conference is substantially lower than if we have it elsewhere. As a nonprofit organization very heavily funded by member donations and fundraising, it is in our best interests to keep costs down. Thus, by holding the event at our own space, we avoid paying conference space rental costs and cut down on lodging expenses by accommodating some of our speakers in the building. Moreover, our in-house catering team is substantially more affordable than a hotel or outside caterer. Finally, Jacobus TenBroek was the first President of the National Federation of the Blind, and thus it is appropriate to hold a Symposium named in his honor and implementing his legacy at the headquarters of the National Federation of the Blind. Ronza In a message dated 8/3/2010 6:55:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov writes: Thanks Susan, my sentiments exactly. Sincerely, Timothy Ford Another state government lawyer who otherwise would not be able to participate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:40 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium I can only speak for myself and other public agency attorneys whose office funding sources are extremely tight, but here goes: In our office, like many other government agencies at least in Arizona, only in-state seminars which directly touch on our area of practice or are required by the State Bar yearly CLE quota rules are reimbursed. This includes travel costs and the ability to use work time, as opposed to personal time (unpaid) or vacation time (limited). I would therefore have to pay the entire cost, from registration through travel expenses, and be required to utilize vacation time. As a public attorney, I can neither truly afford that nor expect my family to forego vacation time because of the fact that the seminar is across the country from here. Nevertheless, I am interested in the subject matter and would love to somehow participate, even if it is simply through the webinar format. Advance notice does nothing to help the time / expense issue, which could be greatly reduced by the use of modern technology. Just my two cents worth.... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Tuesday, 03 August, 2010 2:36 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Hello Fred and everyone, With such a long lead time there's no reason why you can't make plans now to attend the 2011 Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium in person to avail yourself of all it has to offer. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the announcement was made now to allow those wishing to attend to begin making their arrangements to be there in the flesh. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wright Lopez" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish to raise two issues: First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or another Western state. Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this important event. Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > Jacobus tenBroe _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sb cglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Aug 4 14:42:30 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 07:42:30 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F605F3DB8E@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> References: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F605F3DB8E@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E381@EVS02.central.pima.gov> It is also fairly inexpensive - I have been able to "attend" and participate in several immigration webinars that have been presented by a non-profit agency in San Francisco in this way. The audio connection is by conference call, while there is a and area on the webinar screen to type in questions for the moderator while the conference call listeners are on "mute". It is both affordable for the presenter and for the attendees. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS) Sent: Wednesday, 04 August, 2010 7:27 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium I can appreciate the cost advantage to the conference holder, but the constant use of Baltimore as the site imposes a significant barrier to those of us who are located on the West Coast. That said, the option of "broadcasting" the conference over the Internet would go a long way to providing a reasonable alternative to live attendance. The technology is certainly there and should be well within the technical capabilities of the event sponsor. Sincerely, Tim Ford -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 6:39 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Part of the reason we have the Symposium at the NFB Headquarters is that the costs associated with such a conference is substantially lower than if we have it elsewhere. As a nonprofit organization very heavily funded by member donations and fundraising, it is in our best interests to keep costs down. Thus, by holding the event at our own space, we avoid paying conference space rental costs and cut down on lodging expenses by accommodating some of our speakers in the building. Moreover, our in-house catering team is substantially more affordable than a hotel or outside caterer. Finally, Jacobus TenBroek was the first President of the National Federation of the Blind, and thus it is appropriate to hold a Symposium named in his honor and implementing his legacy at the headquarters of the National Federation of the Blind. Ronza In a message dated 8/3/2010 6:55:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov writes: Thanks Susan, my sentiments exactly. Sincerely, Timothy Ford Another state government lawyer who otherwise would not be able to participate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:40 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium I can only speak for myself and other public agency attorneys whose office funding sources are extremely tight, but here goes: In our office, like many other government agencies at least in Arizona, only in-state seminars which directly touch on our area of practice or are required by the State Bar yearly CLE quota rules are reimbursed. This includes travel costs and the ability to use work time, as opposed to personal time (unpaid) or vacation time (limited). I would therefore have to pay the entire cost, from registration through travel expenses, and be required to utilize vacation time. As a public attorney, I can neither truly afford that nor expect my family to forego vacation time because of the fact that the seminar is across the country from here. Nevertheless, I am interested in the subject matter and would love to somehow participate, even if it is simply through the webinar format. Advance notice does nothing to help the time / expense issue, which could be greatly reduced by the use of modern technology. Just my two cents worth.... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Tuesday, 03 August, 2010 2:36 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Hello Fred and everyone, With such a long lead time there's no reason why you can't make plans now to attend the 2011 Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium in person to avail yourself of all it has to offer. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the announcement was made now to allow those wishing to attend to begin making their arrangements to be there in the flesh. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wright Lopez" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish to raise two issues: First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or another Western state. Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this important event. Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > Jacobus tenBroe _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sb cglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From stiehm.law at juno.com Wed Aug 4 20:20:53 2010 From: stiehm.law at juno.com (Patrick H Stiehm) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 16:20:53 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Message-ID: <20100804.162053.5040.0.stiehm.law@juno.com> Of the two points raised by Mr. Lopez below, the suggestion that the symposium be offered on the web seems to have generated the most comments. I join those who favor that alternative. I understand that these decisions are made by committee. Let's hope the members of the committee take heed of the well reasoned comments concerning the second point. Even if it does not occur for the 2011 symposium it will hopefully be adopted soon thereafter. Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, Virginia 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Fred Wright Lopez writes: > With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I > wish to raise two issues: > First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider > alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. > Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters > limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and > interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and > disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of > a long time professor of law at the University of California is > never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium > the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or > another Western state. > > Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so > that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In > this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not > webcasting this important event. > > Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar > > > On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > > > Jacobus tenBroe > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju no.com > > Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, Virginia 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net ____________________________________________________________ Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59cbf25b24ed84a0m04vuc From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 4 20:40:11 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 13:40:11 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <005c01cb3353$eda1fef0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> <005c01cb3353$eda1fef0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: It is this type of arrogant response that would make me not want to attend this event even if I had the money or the time. Is the NFB this unresponsive to the wishes of its members? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > Hello Fred and everyone, > > With such a long lead time there's no reason why you can't make plans > now to attend the 2011 Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium in person > to avail yourself of all it has to offer. Perhaps this is one of the > reasons > why the announcement was made now to allow those wishing to attend to > begin > making their arrangements to be there in the flesh. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Wright Lopez" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:49 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > > > With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish > to raise two issues: > First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative > geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site > every > year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to > participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who > are > advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference > named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of > California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 > symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or > another Western state. > > Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that > others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this > current > technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this > important > event. > > Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar > > > On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > >> Jacobus tenBroe > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From fwlopez at comcast.net Wed Aug 4 21:00:54 2010 From: fwlopez at comcast.net (Fred Wright Lopez) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:00:54 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <20100804.162053.5040.0.stiehm.law@juno.com> References: <20100804.162053.5040.0.stiehm.law@juno.com> Message-ID: <9EC97189-5E29-4531-91F4-B157F24B8896@comcast.net> If the organizers and sponsors of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium do not believe they have the resources or personnel to arrange for a "Web conference" or "Webinare" than this may be something that those of us who are interested can go to the American Bar Association and seek their assistance. I am confident that the ABA (as well as many state bars) have considerable in house experience in organizing inter active live web conferences. I for one would be willing to volunteer to work on this as a project if the Symposium organizers consent.. We may continue to disagree as to the situs of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium but we need not be disagreeable in doing so. The objective here should be to secure the widest possible participation of practitioners for this event. It may well turn out that by adding a live web conferencing feature to the Symposium that not only will a wider audience be reached put it may actually encourage attorneys and others to attend in person at future events. On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Patrick H Stiehm wrote: > Of the two points raised by Mr. Lopez below, the suggestion that the > symposium be offered on the web seems to have generated the most > comments. I join those who favor that alternative. I understand that > these decisions are made by committee. Let's hope the members of the > committee take heed of the well reasoned comments concerning the second > point. Even if it does not occur for the 2011 symposium it will hopefully > be adopted soon thereafter. > > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, Virginia > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > > On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Fred Wright Lopez > writes: >> With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I >> wish to raise two issues: >> First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider >> alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. >> Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters >> limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and >> interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and >> disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of >> a long time professor of law at the University of California is >> never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium >> the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or >> another Western state. >> >> Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so >> that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In >> this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not >> webcasting this important event. >> >> Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar >> >> >> On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: >> >>> Jacobus tenBroe >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> >> > > > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, Virginia > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > ____________________________________________________________ > Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance > If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59cbf25b24ed84a0m04vuc > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Aug 4 21:16:08 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:16:08 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <9EC97189-5E29-4531-91F4-B157F24B8896@comcast.net> References: <20100804.162053.5040.0.stiehm.law@juno.com> <9EC97189-5E29-4531-91F4-B157F24B8896@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E38A@EVS02.central.pima.gov> I agree, and would also love to help to the degree possible work-wise. By the way, the webinar service that is used by the San Francisco non-profit (ILRC) is "Go to", a Citrix program which obviously is web-based and very clear with WinZoom and ZoomText. Because I can still use a screen magnifier for many things, I do not know how accessible it is to screen narration. ILRC also then utilizes a conference calling center for the audio portion, which has the ability to mute listeners intermittently while the speaker is presenting a topic, and re-open for questions / participation. I think our State Bar uses the Citrix program for both audio and screen presentation, so I do not know how the audience participation portion works on that. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Fred Wright Lopez Sent: Wednesday, 04 August, 2010 2:01 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium If the organizers and sponsors of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium do not believe they have the resources or personnel to arrange for a "Web conference" or "Webinare" than this may be something that those of us who are interested can go to the American Bar Association and seek their assistance. I am confident that the ABA (as well as many state bars) have considerable in house experience in organizing inter active live web conferences. I for one would be willing to volunteer to work on this as a project if the Symposium organizers consent.. We may continue to disagree as to the situs of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium but we need not be disagreeable in doing so. The objective here should be to secure the widest possible participation of practitioners for this event. It may well turn out that by adding a live web conferencing feature to the Symposium that not only will a wider audience be reached put it may actually encourage attorneys and others to attend in person at future events. On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Patrick H Stiehm wrote: > Of the two points raised by Mr. Lopez below, the suggestion that the > symposium be offered on the web seems to have generated the most > comments. I join those who favor that alternative. I understand that > these decisions are made by committee. Let's hope the members of the > committee take heed of the well reasoned comments concerning the second > point. Even if it does not occur for the 2011 symposium it will hopefully > be adopted soon thereafter. > > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, Virginia > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > > On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Fred Wright Lopez > writes: >> With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I >> wish to raise two issues: >> First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider >> alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. >> Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters >> limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and >> interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and >> disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of >> a long time professor of law at the University of California is >> never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium >> the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or >> another Western state. >> >> Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so >> that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In >> this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not >> webcasting this important event. >> >> Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar >> >> >> On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: >> >>> Jacobus tenBroe >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40j u > no.com >> >> > > > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, Virginia > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > ____________________________________________________________ > Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance > If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59cbf25b24ed84a0m04vuc > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comc ast.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From stiehm.law at juno.com Wed Aug 4 21:33:18 2010 From: stiehm.law at juno.com (Patrick H Stiehm) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 17:33:18 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Message-ID: <20100804.173318.4716.3.stiehm.law@juno.com> Another advantage to offering the symposium electronically is that it can be stored and accessed later on an on demand basis by those who for one reason or another cannot attend either in person or electronically while the event is going on. The audio portions of the symposium could be converted to podcasts which would simply increase their availability. Like Fred and Susan I would certainly be willing to work on this project, should it be seriously considered by the powers that be. Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, Virginia 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 14:16:08 -0700 "Susan Kelly" writes: > I agree, and would also love to help to the degree possible > work-wise. > By the way, the webinar service that is used by the San Francisco > non-profit (ILRC) is "Go to", a Citrix program which obviously is > web-based and very clear with WinZoom and ZoomText. Because I can > still > use a screen magnifier for many things, I do not know how accessible > it > is to screen narration. ILRC also then utilizes a conference > calling > center for the audio portion, which has the ability to mute > listeners > intermittently while the speaker is presenting a topic, and re-open > for > questions / participation. I think our State Bar uses the Citrix > program for both audio and screen presentation, so I do not know how > the > audience participation portion works on that. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Fred Wright Lopez > Sent: Wednesday, 04 August, 2010 2:01 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law > Symposium > > If the organizers and sponsors of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium do > not > believe they have the resources or personnel to arrange for a "Web > conference" or "Webinare" than this may be something that those of > us > who are interested can go to the American Bar Association and seek > their > assistance. I am confident that the ABA (as well as many state > bars) > have considerable in house experience in organizing inter active > live > web conferences. I for one would be willing to volunteer to work > on > this as a project if the Symposium organizers consent.. > > We may continue to disagree as to the situs of the Jacobus tenBroek > Symposium but we need not be disagreeable in doing so. The > objective > here should be to secure the widest possible participation of > s for this event. It may well turn out that by adding a > live web conferencing feature to the Symposium that not only will a > wider audience be reached put it may actually encourage attorneys > and > others to attend in person at future events. > > > > On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Patrick H Stiehm wrote: > > > Of the two points raised by Mr. Lopez below, the suggestion that > the > > symposium be offered on the web seems to have generated the most > > comments. I join those who favor that alternative. I understand > that > > these decisions are made by committee. Let's hope the members of > the > > committee take heed of the well reasoned comments concerning the > second > > point. Even if it does not occur for the 2011 symposium it will > hopefully > > be adopted soon thereafter. > > > > Stiehm Law Office > > Alexandria, Virginia > > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > > > > On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Fred Wright Lopez > > > writes: > >> With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law > Symposium I > > >> wish to raise two issues: > >> First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider > >> alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. > >> Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters > >> limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and > >> interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind > and > >> disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor > of > >> a long time professor of law at the University of California is > >> never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium > > >> the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or > >> another Western state. > >> > >> Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed > so > >> that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? > In > >> this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not > >> webcasting this important event. > >> > >> Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar > >> > >> > >> On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > >> > >>> Jacobus tenBroe > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > >> for blindlaw: > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40j > u > > no.com > >> > >> > > > > > > Stiehm Law Office > > Alexandria, Virginia > > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > > ____________________________________________________________ > > Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance > > If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi > Program > > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59cbf25b24ed84a0m04vuc > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comc > ast.net > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 > pima.gov > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju no.com > > Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, Virginia 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net ____________________________________________________________ SHOCKING: Samsung 46" 3D LED TV for $84.95 SPECIAL REPORT: High ticket items are being auctioned for an incredible 90% off! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59dcddb37d4d8a19m04vuc From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Thu Aug 5 04:08:16 2010 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2010 00:08:16 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> <005c01cb3353$eda1fef0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <82A4A2F2CCE04E9D84A7C5C80B89D6B5@14bd0130080a469> I hear that- Isn't this event about disability law? Why would broadening the pool of participants to include more attorneys with blindness and/or other disabilities be a problem?? CB & A -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 4:40 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium It is this type of arrogant response that would make me not want to attend this event even if I had the money or the time. Is the NFB this unresponsive to the wishes of its members? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > Hello Fred and everyone, > > With such a long lead time there's no reason why you can't make plans > now to attend the 2011 Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium in person > to avail yourself of all it has to offer. Perhaps this is one of the > reasons > why the announcement was made now to allow those wishing to attend to > begin > making their arrangements to be there in the flesh. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Wright Lopez" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:49 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > > > With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish > to raise two issues: > First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative > geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site > every > year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to > participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who > are > advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference > named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of > California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 > symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or > another Western state. > > Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that > others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this > current > technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this > important > event. > > Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar > > > On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > >> Jacobus tenBroe > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo bal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3047 - Release Date: 08/04/10 04:45:00 From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Thu Aug 5 13:34:53 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 07:34:53 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium References: <20100804.162053.5040.0.stiehm.law@juno.com> <9EC97189-5E29-4531-91F4-B157F24B8896@comcast.net> Message-ID: <10DEAFFEF7404154AAF2F42098D4B3DE@labarre> I serve on the steering committee and I appreciate everyone's comments. We have conducted three of these symposia thus far. Past programs, or at least the plennary sessions, have been recorded and later placed on the web. We can certainly explore fully whether we can broadcast the syposium live over the internet and construct interactive features. As for moving the Symposium around, there is nothing written in stone about what we have done. There is, of course, the preference to do the symposium at our headquarters where we have wonderful facilities to do so but who knows what the future might bring. We are just delighted that the syposium has grown each year and generates more and more interest. Again, thank you for your thoughts and ideas and I will bring them to the rest of the steering committee. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wright Lopez" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > If the organizers and sponsors of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium do not > believe they have the resources or personnel to arrange for a "Web > conference" or "Webinare" than this may be something that those of us > who are interested can go to the American Bar Association and seek their > assistance. I am confident that the ABA (as well as many state bars) > have considerable in house experience in organizing inter active live web > conferences. I for one would be willing to volunteer to work on this as > a project if the Symposium organizers consent.. > > We may continue to disagree as to the situs of the Jacobus tenBroek > Symposium but we need not be disagreeable in doing so. The objective here > should be to secure the widest possible participation of practitioners for > this event. It may well turn out that by adding a live web conferencing > feature to the Symposium that not only will a wider audience be reached > put it may actually encourage attorneys and others to attend in person at > future events. > > > > On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Patrick H Stiehm wrote: > >> Of the two points raised by Mr. Lopez below, the suggestion that the >> symposium be offered on the web seems to have generated the most >> comments. I join those who favor that alternative. I understand that >> these decisions are made by committee. Let's hope the members of the >> committee take heed of the well reasoned comments concerning the second >> point. Even if it does not occur for the 2011 symposium it will hopefully >> be adopted soon thereafter. >> >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, Virginia >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net >> >> On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Fred Wright Lopez >> writes: >>> With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I >>> wish to raise two issues: >>> First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider >>> alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. >>> Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters >>> limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and >>> interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and >>> disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of >>> a long time professor of law at the University of California is >>> never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium >>> the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or >>> another Western state. >>> >>> Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so >>> that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In >>> this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not >>> webcasting this important event. >>> >>> Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar >>> >>> >>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: >>> >>>> Jacobus tenBroe >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >>> >> >> >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, Virginia >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance >> If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59cbf25b24ed84a0m04vuc >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From stiehm.law at juno.com Thu Aug 5 14:26:47 2010 From: stiehm.law at juno.com (Patrick H Stiehm) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 10:26:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Message-ID: <20100805.102647.3424.1.stiehm.law@juno.com> Scott, Thank you for the comments below. I am sure all of us who were urging the availability of the symposium on an "online" basis appreciate your efforts in bringing our concerns to the Steering Committee. The content of the symposium is such that CLE credits are clearly available when a participant applies to his or her state for such credit. The problem with and videotaping the symposium and offering it online later, is that it then becomes the same as CLE that is offered on a "on demand" basis. There are some states, Minnesota for example, that require that any online CLE be offered on a "live" basis for credit approval. As a matter of fact I think this requirement goes one step further and requires that the online participants be able to ask questions. Since NFB is already going to the trouble of recording each session, it seems to me that the next logical step is to do those things that are necessary to offer it "live" not just for CLE approval in those states that require such live presentation but so that those participating online can fully participate by asking questions of the speakers the same as the people physically present in the live audience. Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, Virginia 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 07:34:53 -0600 "Scott C. LaBarre" writes: > I serve on the steering committee and I appreciate everyone's > comments. We > have conducted three of these symposia thus far. Past programs, or > at least > the plennary sessions, have been recorded and later placed on the > web. We > can certainly explore fully whether we can broadcast the syposium > live over > the internet and construct interactive features. As for moving the > > Symposium around, there is nothing written in stone about what we > have done. > There is, of course, the preference to do the symposium at our > headquarters > where we have wonderful facilities to do so but who knows what the > future > might bring. We are just delighted that the syposium has grown each > year > and generates more and more interest. Again, thank you for your > thoughts > and ideas and I will bring them to the rest of the steering > committee. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not > read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any > attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Wright Lopez" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:00 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law > Symposium > > > > If the organizers and sponsors of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium do > not > > believe they have the resources or personnel to arrange for a "Web > > > conference" or "Webinare" than this may be something that those > of us > > who are interested can go to the American Bar Association and seek > their > > assistance. I am confident that the ABA (as well as many state > bars) > > have considerable in house experience in organizing inter active > live web > > conferences. I for one would be willing to volunteer to work on > this as > > a project if the Symposium organizers consent.. > > > > We may continue to disagree as to the situs of the Jacobus > tenBroek > > Symposium but we need not be disagreeable in doing so. The > objective here > > should be to secure the widest possible participation of > practitioners for > > this event. It may well turn out that by adding a live web > conferencing > > feature to the Symposium that not only will a wider audience be > reached > > put it may actually encourage attorneys and others to attend in > person at > > future events. > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Patrick H Stiehm wrote: > > > >> Of the two points raised by Mr. Lopez below, the suggestion that > the > >> symposium be offered on the web seems to have generated the most > >> comments. I join those who favor that alternative. I understand > that > >> these decisions are made by committee. Let's hope the members of > the > >> committee take heed of the well reasoned comments concerning the > second > >> point. Even if it does not occur for the 2011 symposium it will > hopefully > >> be adopted soon thereafter. > >> > >> Stiehm Law Office > >> Alexandria, Virginia > >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) > >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) > >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > >> > >> On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Fred Wright Lopez > > >> writes: > >>> With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law > Symposium I > >>> wish to raise two issues: > >>> First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider > >>> alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. > >>> Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters > >>> limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and > >>> interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind > and > >>> disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor > of > >>> a long time professor of law at the University of California is > >>> never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 > symposium > >>> the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or > >>> another Western state. > >>> > >>> Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed > so > >>> that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? > In > >>> this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not > >>> webcasting this important event. > >>> > >>> Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar > >>> > >>> > >>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > >>> > >>>> Jacobus tenBroe > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > >>> for blindlaw: > >>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > >> no.com > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> Stiehm Law Office > >> Alexandria, Virginia > >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) > >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) > >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance > >> If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi > Program > >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59cbf25b24ed84a0m04vuc > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comca st.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40laba rrelaw.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju no.com > > Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, Virginia 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net ____________________________________________________________ Project Management Cert Villanova PMP® & CAPM® Classes. Average Salary For PMPs is $100K http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c5aca3a211ccdbc94m04vuc From AZNOR99 at aol.com Thu Aug 5 14:37:05 2010 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 10:37:05 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] Webinar Tool Message-ID: <2efe5.6609fa41.398c2691@aol.com> Colleagues, A recent thread on this list referenced online CLE webinars with an interactive component and Q&A windows. Does anyone know of a platform like this that is Jaws/WindowEyes compatible or 508 compliant? I know Adobe Flash and Microsoft Communicator are not. I'd appreciate any suggestions, especially if your State Bar Association used them successfully. Thanks, Ronza From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Thu Aug 5 14:50:40 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 07:50:40 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Webinar Tool In-Reply-To: <2efe5.6609fa41.398c2691@aol.com> References: <2efe5.6609fa41.398c2691@aol.com> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E38D@EVS02.central.pima.gov> I will check with a friend of mine at ILRC, which utilizes "GO To" for webinars. I know that it works with the screen magnification tools of WinZoom and ZoomText, and I have always been more involved with listening to the speakers than to worry much with the narration tools during the seminar. However, ILRC also takes the extra step of sending us printed materials electronically prior to the actual webinar in several formats. The PDF documents are readable by the narration tools, at least the ones that I have installed on my work and personal computers. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, 05 August, 2010 7:37 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Webinar Tool Colleagues, A recent thread on this list referenced online CLE webinars with an interactive component and Q&A windows. Does anyone know of a platform like this that is Jaws/WindowEyes compatible or 508 compliant? I know Adobe Flash and Microsoft Communicator are not. I'd appreciate any suggestions, especially if your State Bar Association used them successfully. Thanks, Ronza _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Thu Aug 5 15:00:54 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 11:00:54 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium References: <20100805.102647.3424.1.stiehm.law@juno.com> Message-ID: <829C325AFE9649E991945047A8C62642@hometwxakonvzn> What types of area's does disability law cover? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick H Stiehm" To: ; Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Scott, Thank you for the comments below. I am sure all of us who were urging the availability of the symposium on an "online" basis appreciate your efforts in bringing our concerns to the Steering Committee. The content of the symposium is such that CLE credits are clearly available when a participant applies to his or her state for such credit. The problem with and videotaping the symposium and offering it online later, is that it then becomes the same as CLE that is offered on a "on demand" basis. There are some states, Minnesota for example, that require that any online CLE be offered on a "live" basis for credit approval. As a matter of fact I think this requirement goes one step further and requires that the online participants be able to ask questions. Since NFB is already going to the trouble of recording each session, it seems to me that the next logical step is to do those things that are necessary to offer it "live" not just for CLE approval in those states that require such live presentation but so that those participating online can fully participate by asking questions of the speakers the same as the people physically present in the live audience. Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, Virginia 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 07:34:53 -0600 "Scott C. LaBarre" writes: > I serve on the steering committee and I appreciate everyone's > comments. We > have conducted three of these symposia thus far. Past programs, or > at least > the plennary sessions, have been recorded and later placed on the > web. We > can certainly explore fully whether we can broadcast the syposium > live over > the internet and construct interactive features. As for moving the > > Symposium around, there is nothing written in stone about what we > have done. > There is, of course, the preference to do the symposium at our > headquarters > where we have wonderful facilities to do so but who knows what the > future > might bring. We are just delighted that the syposium has grown each > year > and generates more and more interest. Again, thank you for your > thoughts > and ideas and I will bring them to the rest of the steering > committee. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not > read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any > attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Wright Lopez" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:00 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law > Symposium > > > > If the organizers and sponsors of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium do > not > > believe they have the resources or personnel to arrange for a "Web > > > conference" or "Webinare" than this may be something that those > of us > > who are interested can go to the American Bar Association and seek > their > > assistance. I am confident that the ABA (as well as many state > bars) > > have considerable in house experience in organizing inter active > live web > > conferences. I for one would be willing to volunteer to work on > this as > > a project if the Symposium organizers consent.. > > > > We may continue to disagree as to the situs of the Jacobus > tenBroek > > Symposium but we need not be disagreeable in doing so. The > objective here > > should be to secure the widest possible participation of > practitioners for > > this event. It may well turn out that by adding a live web > conferencing > > feature to the Symposium that not only will a wider audience be > reached > > put it may actually encourage attorneys and others to attend in > person at > > future events. > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Patrick H Stiehm wrote: > > > >> Of the two points raised by Mr. Lopez below, the suggestion that > the > >> symposium be offered on the web seems to have generated the most > >> comments. I join those who favor that alternative. I understand > that > >> these decisions are made by committee. Let's hope the members of > the > >> committee take heed of the well reasoned comments concerning the > second > >> point. Even if it does not occur for the 2011 symposium it will > hopefully > >> be adopted soon thereafter. > >> > >> Stiehm Law Office > >> Alexandria, Virginia > >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) > >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) > >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > >> > >> On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Fred Wright Lopez > > >> writes: > >>> With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law > Symposium I > >>> wish to raise two issues: > >>> First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider > >>> alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. > >>> Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters > >>> limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and > >>> interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind > and > >>> disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor > of > >>> a long time professor of law at the University of California is > >>> never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 > symposium > >>> the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or > >>> another Western state. > >>> > >>> Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed > so > >>> that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? > In > >>> this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not > >>> webcasting this important event. > >>> > >>> Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar > >>> > >>> > >>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: > >>> > >>>> Jacobus tenBroe > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > >>> for blindlaw: > >>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > >> no.com > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> Stiehm Law Office > >> Alexandria, Virginia > >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) > >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) > >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance > >> If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi > Program > >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59cbf25b24ed84a0m04vuc > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comca st.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40laba rrelaw.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju no.com > > Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, Virginia 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net ____________________________________________________________ Project Management Cert Villanova PMP® & CAPM® Classes. Average Salary For PMPs is $100K http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c5aca3a211ccdbc94m04vuc _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Thu Aug 5 15:04:21 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 08:04:21 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Webinar Tool In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E38D@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <2efe5.6609fa41.398c2691@aol.com> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E38D@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E38E@EVS02.central.pima.gov> By the way, I found the company web site and sent a request for information - I will forward their response, regarding JAWS (and DragonSpeak, for people with other disabilities) if and when received. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly Sent: Thursday, 05 August, 2010 7:51 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Webinar Tool I will check with a friend of mine at ILRC, which utilizes "GO To" for webinars. I know that it works with the screen magnification tools of WinZoom and ZoomText, and I have always been more involved with listening to the speakers than to worry much with the narration tools during the seminar. However, ILRC also takes the extra step of sending us printed materials electronically prior to the actual webinar in several formats. The PDF documents are readable by the narration tools, at least the ones that I have installed on my work and personal computers. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, 05 August, 2010 7:37 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Webinar Tool Colleagues, A recent thread on this list referenced online CLE webinars with an interactive component and Q&A windows. Does anyone know of a platform like this that is Jaws/WindowEyes compatible or 508 compliant? I know Adobe Flash and Microsoft Communicator are not. I'd appreciate any suggestions, especially if your State Bar Association used them successfully. Thanks, Ronza _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From tom at tomladis.com Thu Aug 5 15:09:28 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 10:09:28 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Message-ID: Hello All, I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? Thanks, Tom From k7uij at panix.com Thu Aug 5 15:33:57 2010 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 08:33:57 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: Message-ID: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? Ah, the advantages of an external synth! Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello All, > > I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through > www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get > around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added > real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username > and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they > present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same > time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a > barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. > > Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? > > > Thanks, > Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 5 20:52:31 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 13:52:31 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E38A@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <20100804.162053.5040.0.stiehm.law@juno.com><9EC97189-5E29-4531-91F4-B157F24B8896@comcast.net> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E38A@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: I have had bad experiences using the GO to or Citrix formats with JAWS. While I could listen to the webinars I could not actively participate using JAWS. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kelly" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium >I agree, and would also love to help to the degree possible work-wise. > By the way, the webinar service that is used by the San Francisco > non-profit (ILRC) is "Go to", a Citrix program which obviously is > web-based and very clear with WinZoom and ZoomText. Because I can still > use a screen magnifier for many things, I do not know how accessible it > is to screen narration. ILRC also then utilizes a conference calling > center for the audio portion, which has the ability to mute listeners > intermittently while the speaker is presenting a topic, and re-open for > questions / participation. I think our State Bar uses the Citrix > program for both audio and screen presentation, so I do not know how the > audience participation portion works on that. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Fred Wright Lopez > Sent: Wednesday, 04 August, 2010 2:01 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > > If the organizers and sponsors of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium do not > believe they have the resources or personnel to arrange for a "Web > conference" or "Webinare" than this may be something that those of us > who are interested can go to the American Bar Association and seek their > assistance. I am confident that the ABA (as well as many state bars) > have considerable in house experience in organizing inter active live > web conferences. I for one would be willing to volunteer to work on > this as a project if the Symposium organizers consent.. > > We may continue to disagree as to the situs of the Jacobus tenBroek > Symposium but we need not be disagreeable in doing so. The objective > here should be to secure the widest possible participation of > practitioners for this event. It may well turn out that by adding a > live web conferencing feature to the Symposium that not only will a > wider audience be reached put it may actually encourage attorneys and > others to attend in person at future events. > > > > On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Patrick H Stiehm wrote: > >> Of the two points raised by Mr. Lopez below, the suggestion that the >> symposium be offered on the web seems to have generated the most >> comments. I join those who favor that alternative. I understand that >> these decisions are made by committee. Let's hope the members of the >> committee take heed of the well reasoned comments concerning the > second >> point. Even if it does not occur for the 2011 symposium it will > hopefully >> be adopted soon thereafter. >> >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, Virginia >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net >> >> On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Fred Wright Lopez > >> writes: >>> With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I > >>> wish to raise two issues: >>> First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider >>> alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. >>> Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters >>> limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and >>> interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and >>> disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of >>> a long time professor of law at the University of California is >>> never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium >>> the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or >>> another Western state. >>> >>> Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so >>> that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In >>> this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not >>> webcasting this important event. >>> >>> Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar >>> >>> >>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: >>> >>>> Jacobus tenBroe >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40j > u >> no.com >>> >>> >> >> >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, Virginia >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance >> If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59cbf25b24ed84a0m04vuc >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comc > ast.net > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 > pima.gov > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Thu Aug 5 21:03:34 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 14:03:34 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: References: <20100804.162053.5040.0.stiehm.law@juno.com><9EC97189-5E29-4531-91F4-B157F24B8896@comcast.net> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E38A@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E39A@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Yes, I did hear back from my friend at ILRC - she referred my question to their IT guy, who reported that the streaming video nature of the feed is not compatible with JAWS or Dragon Speak (for physically disabled persons). As I mentioned earlier, it does work with screen magnification tools, but the narration is not possible in that format apparently. However, I have found a couple of other low-cost providers that I am researching, just to see what is possible. One is EASI, which is entirely dedicated to accessibility, so it looks promising.... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Thursday, 05 August, 2010 1:53 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium I have had bad experiences using the GO to or Citrix formats with JAWS. While I could listen to the webinars I could not actively participate using JAWS. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kelly" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium >I agree, and would also love to help to the degree possible work-wise. > By the way, the webinar service that is used by the San Francisco > non-profit (ILRC) is "Go to", a Citrix program which obviously is > web-based and very clear with WinZoom and ZoomText. Because I can still > use a screen magnifier for many things, I do not know how accessible it > is to screen narration. ILRC also then utilizes a conference calling > center for the audio portion, which has the ability to mute listeners > intermittently while the speaker is presenting a topic, and re-open for > questions / participation. I think our State Bar uses the Citrix > program for both audio and screen presentation, so I do not know how the > audience participation portion works on that. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Fred Wright Lopez > Sent: Wednesday, 04 August, 2010 2:01 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > > If the organizers and sponsors of the Jacobus tenBroek Symposium do not > believe they have the resources or personnel to arrange for a "Web > conference" or "Webinare" than this may be something that those of us > who are interested can go to the American Bar Association and seek their > assistance. I am confident that the ABA (as well as many state bars) > have considerable in house experience in organizing inter active live > web conferences. I for one would be willing to volunteer to work on > this as a project if the Symposium organizers consent.. > > We may continue to disagree as to the situs of the Jacobus tenBroek > Symposium but we need not be disagreeable in doing so. The objective > here should be to secure the widest possible participation of > practitioners for this event. It may well turn out that by adding a > live web conferencing feature to the Symposium that not only will a > wider audience be reached put it may actually encourage attorneys and > others to attend in person at future events. > > > > On Aug 4, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Patrick H Stiehm wrote: > >> Of the two points raised by Mr. Lopez below, the suggestion that the >> symposium be offered on the web seems to have generated the most >> comments. I join those who favor that alternative. I understand that >> these decisions are made by committee. Let's hope the members of the >> committee take heed of the well reasoned comments concerning the > second >> point. Even if it does not occur for the 2011 symposium it will > hopefully >> be adopted soon thereafter. >> >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, Virginia >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net >> >> On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 13:49:15 -0700 Fred Wright Lopez > >> writes: >>> With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I > >>> wish to raise two issues: >>> First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider >>> alternative geographic sites for this annual legal conference. >>> Limiting the site every year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters >>> limits the ability of many to participate in the discussion and >>> interact with attorneys and otehrs who are advocates for blind and >>> disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference named in honor of >>> a long time professor of law at the University of California is >>> never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 symposium >>> the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or >>> another Western state. >>> >>> Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so >>> that others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In >>> this current technological age there is no valid excuse for not >>> webcasting this important event. >>> >>> Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar >>> >>> >>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: >>> >>>> Jacobus tenBroe >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40j > u >> no.com >>> >>> >> >> >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, Virginia >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> Email address: stiehm.law at verizon.net >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance >> If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c59cbf25b24ed84a0m04vuc >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comc > ast.net > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 > pima.gov > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbc global.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Thu Aug 5 22:13:31 2010 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 18:13:31 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> Message-ID: <83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I was able to log into my own account with no problem. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? Ah, the advantages of an external synth! Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello All, > > I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through > www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get > around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added > real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username > and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they > present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same > time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a > barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. > > Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? > > > Thanks, > Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5345 (20100805) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5345 (20100805) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 5 23:01:03 2010 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 16:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Message-ID: <769523.81586.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I use it and have also had the same problem. See the next forwarded message with the reply to my enquiry. --- On Thu, 8/5/10, Tom Ladis wrote: > From: Tom Ladis > Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 11:09 AM > Hello All, > > I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the > past through www.LinkedIn.com.  I have used LinkedIn in > the past and been able to get around with only a few > problems.  It appears that they have added real-time > verification to the login process on top of the normal > username and password.  They do offer the ability to > have the image that they present for real[-time > verification, but the text is spoken at the same time that > JAWS announces the popup window.  This seems to me to > be a barrier and was not there the last time that I logged > in to my account. > > Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? > > > Thanks, > Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 5 23:04:17 2010 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 16:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] security verification not accessible [Ticket: 100729-003568] Message-ID: <348970.68613.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 7:36 PM #yiv398500596 td.yiv398500596header {} #yiv398500596 td.yiv398500596text {padding-left:4px;padding-right:4px;} #yiv398500596 td.yiv398500596label {} #yiv398500596 td.yiv398500596data {} LinkedIn Customer Support Message Subject: security verification not accessible Thank you for sharing your comments on how we can make LinkedIn better. Feedback from members like you provides us with many insights that identify the needs of our customers. I sent your message to our research and development team for review and consideration in future developments. I believe the link below from our Customer Service Center might be help with more information on the security verification. Answer Title: Security Prompts Answer Link: http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=3065 Although every idea cannot be individually responded to or implemented, please know that we do monitor suggestions quite closely for recurring themes. I would like to invite you to follow us on Twitter ( http://twitter.com/linkedin ) or subscribe to the LinkedIn Blog ( http://blog.linkedin.com ) to receive the latest notifications on site improvements. Both options are great ways to stay informed about new releases and exciting work going on behind the scenes here at LinkedIn. Regards, Terrence LinkedIn Customer Support Original Contact: Member Comment: William O'Donnell 07/29/2010 11:10 PM After I sign in, I am required to type characters that appear as an image in order to see my account. When I try to listen to link that reads the image it send me to Windows Media Player and an error comes up that says that it can not read the file. What can I do to remove the images that ask me to type every time I log in? Please make it more accessible for people who are visually impaired. Please do not shut out a large population of users.    ? Would you like to learn more about how to harness the knowledge and expertise of your network? Find training resources on the LinkedIn Learning Center or browse FAQs on the LinkedIn Customer Support Center. Check out New on LinkedIn or follow us on Twitter®.   LinkedIn values your privacy. At no time has LinkedIn made your email address available to any other LinkedIn user without your permission. LinkedIn Corporation © 2010  |  Privacy Policy  |  User Agreement  |  Copyright Policy [---001:001816:56841---] From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 6 03:15:22 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 20:15:22 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I use it and have no problems. While I have not had to log in other than entering my password occasionally in additio to using JAWS I also use WebVizum for solving captcha issues and I find that it works very well as using audio captcha features can be hit or miss due to the voice quality. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello All, > > I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through > www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get > around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added > real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username > and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they > present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same > time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a > barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. > > Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? > > > Thanks, > Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 6 03:37:29 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 22:37:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> <83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13> Message-ID: <000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Chris and everyone, Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I was able to log into my own account with no problem. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? Ah, the advantages of an external synth! Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello All, > > I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through > www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get > around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added > real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username > and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they > present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same > time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a > barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. > > Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? > > > Thanks, > Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5345 (20100805) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5345 (20100805) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From dwilson.lists at gmail.com Fri Aug 6 06:13:19 2010 From: dwilson.lists at gmail.com (Derek Wilson) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 15:13:19 +0900 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> <83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13> <000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha and sometimes not, you may want to read on: QUOTE Security Verification Prompts Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters from an image shown on the security verification screen? LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our members' information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our community. As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe from real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At various points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your password or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in a security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to tell Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by websites. This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique typically used by spammers. At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. To reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the day, you might consider the following actions: 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during the day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will allow you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you can click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also available by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. Source: http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ faqid=3065 The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue will persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by LinkedIn. END QUOTE If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get their act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU Regards, Derek -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Hello Chris and everyone, Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I was able to log into my own account with no problem. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? Ah, the advantages of an external synth! Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello All, > > I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through > www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get > around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added > real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username > and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they > present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same > time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a > barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. > > Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? > > > Thanks, > Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5345 (20100805) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5345 (20100805) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo bal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm ail.com From tom at tomladis.com Fri Aug 6 13:47:09 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:47:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <769523.81586.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <58B6346313A74D408605E500B094DF4E@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Thank you. This one seems like a problem since it is so often used in the job search and career networking arena. I have quite a few friends on there and would like to keep that career networking tool available to everyone. Should I submit a trouble ticket? Tom Ladis ----- Original Message ----- From: "William ODonnell" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind I use it and have also had the same problem. See the next forwarded message with the reply to my enquiry. --- On Thu, 8/5/10, Tom Ladis wrote: > From: Tom Ladis > Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 11:09 AM > Hello All, > > I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the > past through www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in > the past and been able to get around with only a few > problems. It appears that they have added real-time > verification to the login process on top of the normal > username and password. They do offer the ability to > have the image that they present for real[-time > verification, but the text is spoken at the same time that > JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to > be a barrier and was not there the last time that I logged > in to my account. > > Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? > > > Thanks, > Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com From tom at tomladis.com Fri Aug 6 13:53:17 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:53:17 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> <83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13> Message-ID: Chris, Hmmm That is a good question. I will try to log in directly. My concern was raised by attempting to connect to friends that were sent to me in an email message. Maybe those types of connections go through a different security system to block out malicious attempts to log in. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens > sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I was > able to log into my own account with no problem. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Mike Freeman > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? > > Ah, the advantages of an external synth! > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello All, >> >> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username >> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >> >> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Tom >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5345 (20100805) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5345 (20100805) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From tom at tomladis.com Fri Aug 6 13:56:02 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:56:02 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> Message-ID: <68D48DD800B344A09520884C75F3113C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Mike, Good question. I will try it, but it may be difficult since they both start talking at about the same time. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? > > Ah, the advantages of an external synth! > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello All, >> >> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username >> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >> >> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Tom >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From tom at tomladis.com Fri Aug 6 15:54:51 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 10:54:51 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Derek, Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. Are they breaking the law by doing this test? Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha and > sometimes not, you may want to read on: > > QUOTE > > Security Verification Prompts > Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters from > an > image shown on the security verification screen? > > LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our > members' > information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our community. > > As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe > from > real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At > various > points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your password > or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in a > security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to > tell > Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by > websites. > This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from > automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique > typically used by spammers. > > At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. To > reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the day, > you might consider the following actions: > > 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) > 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during the > day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will > allow > you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do > recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. > > If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you can > click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also available > by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. > Source: > http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ > faqid=3065 > > The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This > means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue will > persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by > LinkedIn. > > END QUOTE > > If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get their > act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU > > Regards, > Derek > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Peter Donahue > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Hello Chris and everyone, > > Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was > automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Danielsen" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens > sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I was > able to log into my own account with no problem. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Mike Freeman > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? > > Ah, the advantages of an external synth! > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello All, >> >> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username >> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >> >> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Tom >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5345 (20100805) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5345 (20100805) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo > bal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From tom at tomladis.com Fri Aug 6 16:01:07 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:01:07 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13> <000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Peter, Thanks. Even if this is only testing new users, it still seems wrong. I have been on LinkedIn for more than five years, but have not logged in for a few months. Are they breaking the law by presenting this test in this manner? Some workarounds could be to repeat the audible version of the test so that we could get past the conflict with screen readers speaking at the same time. Some sites that present these audible tests as an alternative to the written version make the audio version so poorly that it is not understandable anyhow. Thanks, Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello Chris and everyone, > > Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was > automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Danielsen" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens > sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I was > able to log into my own account with no problem. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Mike Freeman > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? > > Ah, the advantages of an external synth! > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello All, >> >> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username >> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >> >> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Tom >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5345 (20100805) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5345 (20100805) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From tom at tomladis.com Fri Aug 6 16:03:18 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 11:03:18 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: Message-ID: <16B3A6DA98BE4166B9CC3079405DA386@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Chuck, Thank you for the tip. More gadgets. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >I use it and have no problems. While I have not had to log in other than >entering my password occasionally in additio to using JAWS I also use >WebVizum for solving captcha issues and I find that it works very well as >using audio captcha features can be hit or miss due to the voice quality. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello All, >> >> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username >> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >> >> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Tom >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Aug 6 16:08:13 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 10:08:13 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <16B3A6DA98BE4166B9CC3079405DA386@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <16B3A6DA98BE4166B9CC3079405DA386@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: I've never tried Linked In. On 8/6/10, Tom Ladis wrote: > Chuck, > > Thank you for the tip. More gadgets. > > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 10:15 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >>I use it and have no problems. While I have not had to log in other than >>entering my password occasionally in additio to using JAWS I also use >>WebVizum for solving captcha issues and I find that it works very well as >>using audio captcha features can be hit or miss due to the voice quality. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Hello All, >>> >>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal username >>> >>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>> >>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tom >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 6 16:49:13 2010 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 09:49:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <58B6346313A74D408605E500B094DF4E@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <309012.91328.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> No, I did and we see how far that has gotton me. See the post from Yesterday as a forwarded message. They thank you for the input and then brush it off. That is the same story as is with every major corporation in this country. --- On Fri, 8/6/10, Tom Ladis wrote: > From: Tom Ladis > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 9:47 AM > Thank you.  This one seems like > a problem since it is so often used in the > job search and career networking arena.  I have quite > a few friends on there > and would like to keep that career networking tool > available to everyone. > > Should I submit a trouble ticket? > > > Tom Ladis > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William ODonnell" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 6:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible > To The Blind > > > I use it and have also had the same problem.  See the > next forwarded message > with the reply to my enquiry. > > > --- On Thu, 8/5/10, Tom Ladis > wrote: > > > From: Tom Ladis > > Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made > Inaccessible To The Blind > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 11:09 AM > > Hello All, > > > > I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from > the > > past through www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn > in > > the past and been able to get around with only a few > > problems. It appears that they have added real-time > > verification to the login process on top of the > normal > > username and password. They do offer the ability to > > have the image that they present for real[-time > > verification, but the text is spoken at the same time > that > > JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to > > be a barrier and was not there the last time that I > logged > > in to my account. > > > > Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? > > > > > > Thanks, > > Tom > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > > account info for blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > From tom at tomladis.com Fri Aug 6 17:03:48 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 12:03:48 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <309012.91328.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6363D8EA3A8244CCB49E977D592C6FD3@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> William, Aren't they legally responsible for making their site usable by everybody, including the excessively unemployed blind population? Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "William ODonnell" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind No, I did and we see how far that has gotton me. See the post from Yesterday as a forwarded message. They thank you for the input and then brush it off. That is the same story as is with every major corporation in this country. --- On Fri, 8/6/10, Tom Ladis wrote: > From: Tom Ladis > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 9:47 AM > Thank you. This one seems like > a problem since it is so often used in the > job search and career networking arena. I have quite > a few friends on there > and would like to keep that career networking tool > available to everyone. > > Should I submit a trouble ticket? > > > Tom Ladis > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William ODonnell" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 6:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible > To The Blind > > > I use it and have also had the same problem. See the > next forwarded message > with the reply to my enquiry. > > > --- On Thu, 8/5/10, Tom Ladis > wrote: > > > From: Tom Ladis > > Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made > Inaccessible To The Blind > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 11:09 AM > > Hello All, > > > > I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from > the > > past through www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn > in > > the past and been able to get around with only a few > > problems. It appears that they have added real-time > > verification to the login process on top of the > normal > > username and password. They do offer the ability to > > have the image that they present for real[-time > > verification, but the text is spoken at the same time > that > > JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to > > be a barrier and was not there the last time that I > logged > > in to my account. > > > > Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? > > > > > > Thanks, > > Tom > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > > account info for blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Aug 6 21:35:18 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 17:35:18 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] {Disarmed} FW: A Big Step Forward for Accessible Phones, TV and Internet! Message-ID: <8B78F787FFB14A4D9A4583FDFC8F65CC@Rufus> Subject: A Big Step Forward for Accessible Phones, TV and Internet! DVP Logo Senate passes S. 3304 !! "21st Century Communications and Video Accessiblity Act of 2010" Congratulations to the Coalition of Organizations for Accessible Technology (COAT) and AAPD's Jenifer Simpson for a job well done! AAPD logo They beat the telecom and electronic media industries with this historic legislation that will... * Require captioned television programs to be captioned when delivered over the Internet. * Authorize the FCC to require 7 hours per week of TV video description on the top 4 network channels and top 5 cable channels nationwide. * Allocate up to $10 million per year for communications equipment used by individuals who are deaf-blind. * Require televised emergency information to be accessible to individuals who are blind or have low vision. * Require accessibility of advanced communications equipment and services, such as text messaging and e-mail. * Require access to Internet services that are built-in to mobile telephone devices, like smart phones, if achievable. * Require devices of any size to be capable of displaying closed captioning, to deliver available video description, and to make emergency information accessible. * Require accessible user controls for televisions and set-top boxes, and easy access to closed captioning and video description. * And more! S. 3304 now goes to the House of of Representatives where it is expected to pass. If you have any questions regarding this legislation, contact Jenifer Simpson at 202-457-0046. About the Disability Vote Project DVP works in a non-partisan manner to eliminate the barriers to voting and, in close collaboration with coalition partners in states around the country, to increase political participation for individuals with disabilities. DVP aims to get people with disabilities registered to vote; strives to educate them on how to get to their polling places and what their rights are at the polling places; and works to make polling places accessible to voters with all disabilities. About AAPD The American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD) is the largest national nonprofit cross-disability member organization in the United States. It organizes the disability community to be a powerful force for change - politically, economically, and socially - and recognizes the value of working in broad coalitions to foster unity, leadership and impact. AAPD is dedicated to achieving total equality for and full participation of people with disabilities in all aspects of society, recognizing that this is the social justice issue of our time. AAPD James Dickson Vice President for Organizing and Civic Engagement AAPD logo Forward email Safe Unsubscribe This email was sent to jsorozco at gmail.com by vote at aapd.com. Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe T | Privacy Policy . Email Marketing by AAPD | 1629 K Street NW | Suite 950 | Washington | DC | 20006 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 6 21:41:03 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 14:41:03 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <58B6346313A74D408605E500B094DF4E@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <769523.81586.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <58B6346313A74D408605E500B094DF4E@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <7F1A8C8C9B6141149937907FF11F212E@spike> How is it a problem when several of us on this list serve have given you suggestions to deal with this issue? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 6:47 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Thank you. This one seems like a problem since it is so often used in the > job search and career networking arena. I have quite a few friends on > there and would like to keep that career networking tool available to > everyone. > > Should I submit a trouble ticket? > > > Tom Ladis > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William ODonnell" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 6:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > I use it and have also had the same problem. See the next forwarded > message with the reply to my enquiry. > > > --- On Thu, 8/5/10, Tom Ladis wrote: > >> From: Tom Ladis >> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 11:09 AM >> Hello All, >> >> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the >> past through www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in >> the past and been able to get around with only a few >> problems. It appears that they have added real-time >> verification to the login process on top of the normal >> username and password. They do offer the ability to >> have the image that they present for real[-time >> verification, but the text is spoken at the same time that >> JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >> be a barrier and was not there the last time that I logged >> in to my account. >> >> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Tom >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat Aug 7 00:17:00 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 17:17:00 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com> <39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio captcha or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not breaking the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives to solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us to use. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Derek, > > Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites > that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them > to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. > > Are they breaking the law by doing this test? > > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Derek Wilson" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >> and >> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >> >> QUOTE >> >> Security Verification Prompts >> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters from >> an >> image shown on the security verification screen? >> >> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >> members' >> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our community. >> >> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >> from >> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >> various >> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >> password >> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >> a >> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >> tell >> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >> websites. >> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >> typically used by spammers. >> >> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. To >> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the day, >> you might consider the following actions: >> >> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during the >> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >> allow >> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >> >> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you can >> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >> available >> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >> Source: >> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >> faqid=3065 >> >> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >> will >> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >> LinkedIn. >> >> END QUOTE >> >> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get their >> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >> >> Regards, >> Derek >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> Hello Chris and everyone, >> >> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Danielsen" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >> was >> able to log into my own account with no problem. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >> >> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >> >> Mike >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Hello All, >>> >>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>> username >>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>> >>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tom >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >> com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >> bal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >> ail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Sat Aug 7 00:43:36 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 19:43:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Charles and everyone, And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop these CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio captcha or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not breaking the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives to solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us to use. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Derek, > > Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites > that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them > to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. > > Are they breaking the law by doing this test? > > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Derek Wilson" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >> and >> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >> >> QUOTE >> >> Security Verification Prompts >> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters from >> an >> image shown on the security verification screen? >> >> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >> members' >> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our community. >> >> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >> from >> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >> various >> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >> password >> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >> a >> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >> tell >> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >> websites. >> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >> typically used by spammers. >> >> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. To >> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the day, >> you might consider the following actions: >> >> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during the >> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >> allow >> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >> >> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you can >> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >> available >> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >> Source: >> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >> faqid=3065 >> >> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >> will >> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >> LinkedIn. >> >> END QUOTE >> >> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get their >> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >> >> Regards, >> Derek >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> Hello Chris and everyone, >> >> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Danielsen" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >> was >> able to log into my own account with no problem. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >> >> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >> >> Mike >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Hello All, >>> >>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>> username >>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>> >>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tom >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >> com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >> bal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >> ail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat Aug 7 02:58:45 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 19:58:45 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: The use of Web Vizum would work for a deaf blind person because the captcha that is read is then pasted on to the clipboard and copied before sending. I would also assume that a deaf blind person would be using a Braille display to follow the process. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello Charles and everyone, > > And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop > these > CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio > captcha > or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not breaking > the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives > to > solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us to > use. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Derek, >> >> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites >> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them >> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >> >> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >> >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Derek Wilson" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >>> and >>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>> >>> QUOTE >>> >>> Security Verification Prompts >>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>> from >>> an >>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>> >>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>> members' >>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>> community. >>> >>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >>> from >>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>> various >>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>> password >>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >>> a >>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >>> tell >>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>> websites. >>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >>> typically used by spammers. >>> >>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. >>> To >>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>> day, >>> you might consider the following actions: >>> >>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during >>> the >>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>> allow >>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>> >>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you >>> can >>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>> available >>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>> Source: >>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>> faqid=3065 >>> >>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>> will >>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>> LinkedIn. >>> >>> END QUOTE >>> >>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>> their >>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>> >>> Regards, >>> Derek >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>> >>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >>> was >>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>> >>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Hello All, >>>> >>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to >>>> get >>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>> username >>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>>> >>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>> com >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>> bal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From tom at tomladis.com Sat Aug 7 15:28:09 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 10:28:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: Chuck, I understand what you are saying, but some people do not know about these add ons and they may not be affordable to everybody. If the blind and other communities are presented additional challenges, are they not still limiting the opportunities? These are just my opinion based on running into these security tests and being locked out because of them. if their goal is security, then it should only be testing that their is a human on the line, not that you can read or hear or find the right tools. At a minimum, they should be required to make the website equally accessible for everybody, even if that means that they need to put something on the web page that recognizes the screen reader and installs an add on that makes it less painful for someone who is not savvy regarding the tools that may be required to function. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio > captcha or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not > breaking the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using > alternatives to solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out > there for us to use. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Derek, >> >> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites >> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them >> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >> >> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >> >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Derek Wilson" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >>> and >>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>> >>> QUOTE >>> >>> Security Verification Prompts >>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>> from an >>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>> >>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>> members' >>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>> community. >>> >>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >>> from >>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>> various >>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>> password >>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >>> a >>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >>> tell >>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>> websites. >>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >>> typically used by spammers. >>> >>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. >>> To >>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>> day, >>> you might consider the following actions: >>> >>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during >>> the >>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>> allow >>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>> >>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you >>> can >>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>> available >>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>> Source: >>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>> faqid=3065 >>> >>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>> will >>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>> LinkedIn. >>> >>> END QUOTE >>> >>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>> their >>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>> >>> Regards, >>> Derek >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>> >>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >>> was >>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>> >>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Hello All, >>>> >>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to >>>> get >>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>> username >>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>>> >>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>> com >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>> bal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Sat Aug 7 16:39:28 2010 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 12:39:28 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the inaccessible visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio captcha. These were very simple questions that would require a human response, such as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, 5, 14, 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an animal? Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some forms of intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there is no perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns of both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Hello Charles and everyone, And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop these CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio captcha or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not breaking the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives to solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us to use. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Derek, > > Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites > that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them > to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. > > Are they breaking the law by doing this test? > > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Derek Wilson" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >> and >> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >> >> QUOTE >> >> Security Verification Prompts >> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters from >> an >> image shown on the security verification screen? >> >> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >> members' >> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our community. >> >> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >> from >> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >> various >> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >> password >> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >> a >> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >> tell >> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >> websites. >> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >> typically used by spammers. >> >> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. To >> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the day, >> you might consider the following actions: >> >> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during the >> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >> allow >> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >> >> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you can >> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >> available >> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >> Source: >> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >> faqid=3065 >> >> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >> will >> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >> LinkedIn. >> >> END QUOTE >> >> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get their >> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >> >> Regards, >> Derek >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> Hello Chris and everyone, >> >> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Danielsen" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >> was >> able to log into my own account with no problem. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >> >> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >> >> Mike >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Hello All, >>> >>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>> username >>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>> >>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tom >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >> com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >> bal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >> ail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo bal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5348 (20100806) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5348 (20100806) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5348 (20100806) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From dandrews at visi.com Sat Aug 7 20:22:14 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2010 15:22:14 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium In-Reply-To: References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02E4A446@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <8D733BAC-DC3A-4080-A56B-BCB79BC863F8@comcast.net> <005c01cb3353$eda1fef0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Chuck: The comment below was from one individual, who always makes this kind of comment, and who does not speak for the NFB. I would urge you to use better data to form your opinions. Dave At 03:40 PM 8/4/2010, you wrote: >It is this type of arrogant response that would make me not want to >attend this event even if I had the money or the time. Is the NFB >this unresponsive to the wishes of its members? >Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >1237 P Street >Fresno ca 93721 >559-266-9237 >----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:35 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > > >>Hello Fred and everyone, >> >> With such a long lead time there's no reason why you can't make plans >>now to attend the 2011 Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium in person >>to avail yourself of all it has to offer. Perhaps this is one of the reasons >>why the announcement was made now to allow those wishing to attend to begin >>making their arrangements to be there in the flesh. >> >>Peter Donahue >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wright Lopez" >>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:49 PM >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium >> >> >>With the long lead time for the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium I wish >>to raise two issues: >>First: Organizers of the important symposium should consider alternative >>geographic sites for this annual legal conference. Limiting the site every >>year to the NFB Baltimore headquarters limits the ability of many to >>participate in the discussion and interact with attorneys and otehrs who are >>advocates for blind and disabled. It is rather ironic that a conference >>named in honor of a long time professor of law at the University of >>California is never held in that state. Perhaps for the 2012 or 1023 >>symposium the conference could be held in California, Texas, Colorado or >>another Western state. >> >>Second: Will the 2011 tenBroek Symposium be webcast or streamed so that >>others unable to travel to Baltimore can fully participate? In this current >>technological age there is no valid excuse for not webcasting this important >>event. >> >>Thank you: Fred W. Lopez, Member DC Bar >> >> >>On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Blake, Lou Ann wrote: >> >>>Jacobus tenBroe David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From dandrews at visi.com Sat Aug 7 20:24:36 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2010 15:24:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Webinar Tool In-Reply-To: <2efe5.6609fa41.398c2691@aol.com> References: <2efe5.6609fa41.398c2691@aol.com> Message-ID: There is always Talking Communities, and also Accessible Event from Serotek. Dave At 09:37 AM 8/5/2010, you wrote: >Colleagues, > >A recent thread on this list referenced online CLE webinars with an >interactive component and Q&A windows. Does anyone know of a >platform like this >that is Jaws/WindowEyes compatible or 508 compliant? > >I know Adobe Flash and Microsoft Communicator are not. I'd appreciate any >suggestions, especially if your State Bar Association used them >successfully. > >Thanks, >Ronza David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From lists at zufelt.ca Sun Aug 8 01:10:25 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 21:10:25 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <1E528771-FDA5-4F9A-9F9F-C4F03CC95696@zufelt.ca> Although I use Webvisum pretty much daily, and appreciate it, I don't think that it is a legally suitable solution to the problem of CAPTCHAs. I don't see how my ability to access a commercial web-site should be dependent on a free service (which may or may not be available at any given time). That being said, CAPTCHAs are often a necessary tool to filter certain content on high traffic web-sites, where manual filtering would be inefficient or highly expensive. I'm not sure what a better solution would be, as any solution accessible to the blind / deafblind would by necessity be accessible to robots. Logic questions can be useful, but are not always effective at reducing unwanted content from being published to a site, some logic based CAPTCHAs (which aren't actually technically CAPTCHAs, as they are not completely automated), can also cause challenges for persons with cognitive impairments.. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-06, at 10:58 PM, wrote: > The use of Web Vizum would work for a deaf blind person because the captcha that is read is then pasted on to the clipboard and copied before sending. I would also assume that a deaf blind person would be using a Braille display to follow the process. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 5:43 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello Charles and everyone, >> >> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop these >> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio captcha >> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not breaking >> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives to >> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us to >> use. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Derek, >>> >>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites >>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them >>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>> >>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>> >>> >>> Tom >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >>>> and >>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>> >>>> QUOTE >>>> >>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters from >>>> an >>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>> >>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>> members' >>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our community. >>>> >>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >>>> from >>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>> various >>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>> password >>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >>>> a >>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >>>> tell >>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>> websites. >>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >>>> typically used by spammers. >>>> >>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. To >>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the day, >>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>> >>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during the >>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>>> allow >>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>> >>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you can >>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>> available >>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>>> Source: >>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>> faqid=3065 >>>> >>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>>> will >>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>>> LinkedIn. >>>> >>>> END QUOTE >>>> >>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get their >>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Derek >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>> >>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>> >>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>> >>>> Peter Donahue >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>> >>>> >>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >>>> was >>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>> >>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>> >>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello All, >>>>> >>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>> username >>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Tom >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>> com >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>> bal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 8 02:52:32 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 21:52:32 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <001a01cb36a4$c06349e0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Chuck and everyone, Assuming Web Vism can solve the CAPTCHA. I've tried using it on a few sites and was notified that the CAPTCHA cannot be solved. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind The use of Web Vizum would work for a deaf blind person because the captcha that is read is then pasted on to the clipboard and copied before sending. I would also assume that a deaf blind person would be using a Braille display to follow the process. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello Charles and everyone, > > And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop > these > CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio > captcha > or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not breaking > the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives > to > solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us to > use. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Derek, >> >> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites >> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them >> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >> >> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >> >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Derek Wilson" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >>> and >>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>> >>> QUOTE >>> >>> Security Verification Prompts >>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>> from >>> an >>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>> >>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>> members' >>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>> community. >>> >>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >>> from >>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>> various >>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>> password >>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >>> a >>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >>> tell >>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>> websites. >>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >>> typically used by spammers. >>> >>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. >>> To >>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>> day, >>> you might consider the following actions: >>> >>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during >>> the >>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>> allow >>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>> >>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you >>> can >>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>> available >>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>> Source: >>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>> faqid=3065 >>> >>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>> will >>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>> LinkedIn. >>> >>> END QUOTE >>> >>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>> their >>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>> >>> Regards, >>> Derek >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>> >>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >>> was >>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>> >>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Hello All, >>>> >>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to >>>> get >>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>> username >>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>>> >>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>> com >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>> bal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 8 03:25:21 2010 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 20:25:21 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Linkedin Corporation: References: <926270.31481.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com><00c101cb2ffd$6c6ceba0$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: <004701cb36a9$55a3eb50$6601a8c0@server> Hello Dave, Thanks for the response. Its sounds like a useful website. All the best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Linkedin Corporation: > Linked In is a social networking sight that is professionally oriented, > finding business connections, filling jobs etc. > > Dave > > At 10:39 AM 7/30/2010, you wrote: >>Hello William, >>What is the site Linkedin? >>Thanks >>Dennis >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "William ODonnell" >> >>To: ; >>Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 9:10 PM >>Subject: [blindlaw] Linkedin Corporation: >> >> >>>I write the following warning to those who may have not been on the >>>linkedin website lately. >>> >>>Warning to linkedin users: >>>When logging in to your own personal accounts, you will be asked to enter >>>specific security codes after logging in. If you are blind or visually >>>impaired, the audio versions of the caption files are corrupted and do >>>not work. Good luck getting help from customer service. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>blindlaw mailing list >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>blindlaw: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >> >> >>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>signature database 5327 (20100730) __________ >> >>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >>http://www.eset.com >> >> > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From lists at zufelt.ca Sun Aug 8 03:43:35 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 23:43:35 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Good evening, The logic style question, technically not a CAPTCHA since it is not completely automated, can provide a certain level of security, . I do know of some sites, however, where this is not an effective approach at preventing unwanted content from being posted. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-07, at 12:39 PM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the inaccessible > visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio captcha. > These were very simple questions that would require a human response, such > as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, 5, 14, > 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an animal? > Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some forms of > intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there is no > perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns of > both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Peter Donahue > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Hello Charles and everyone, > > And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop these > CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio captcha > or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not breaking > the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives to > solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us to > use. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Derek, >> >> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites >> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them >> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >> >> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >> >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Derek Wilson" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >>> and >>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>> >>> QUOTE >>> >>> Security Verification Prompts >>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters from >>> an >>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>> >>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>> members' >>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our community. >>> >>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >>> from >>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>> various >>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>> password >>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >>> a >>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >>> tell >>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>> websites. >>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >>> typically used by spammers. >>> >>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. To >>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the day, >>> you might consider the following actions: >>> >>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during the >>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>> allow >>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>> >>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you can >>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>> available >>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>> Source: >>> > http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>> faqid=3065 >>> >>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>> will >>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>> LinkedIn. >>> >>> END QUOTE >>> >>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get their >>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>> >>> Regards, >>> Derek >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>> >>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >>> was >>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>> >>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Hello All, >>>> >>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>> username >>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>>> >>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>> com >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>> bal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo > bal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5348 (20100806) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5348 (20100806) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5348 (20100806) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 8 19:57:03 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 12:57:03 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and pasted in to the form field to be entered. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the > inaccessible > visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio captcha. > These were very simple questions that would require a human response, such > as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, 5, > 14, > 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an > animal? > Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some forms > of > intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there is > no > perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns of > both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Peter Donahue > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Hello Charles and everyone, > > And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop > these > CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio > captcha > or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not breaking > the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives > to > solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us to > use. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Derek, >> >> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites >> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them >> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >> >> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >> >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Derek Wilson" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >>> and >>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>> >>> QUOTE >>> >>> Security Verification Prompts >>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>> from >>> an >>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>> >>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>> members' >>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>> community. >>> >>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >>> from >>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>> various >>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>> password >>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >>> a >>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >>> tell >>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>> websites. >>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >>> typically used by spammers. >>> >>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. >>> To >>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>> day, >>> you might consider the following actions: >>> >>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during >>> the >>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>> allow >>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>> >>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you >>> can >>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>> available >>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>> Source: >>> > http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>> faqid=3065 >>> >>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>> will >>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>> LinkedIn. >>> >>> END QUOTE >>> >>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>> their >>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>> >>> Regards, >>> Derek >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>> >>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >>> was >>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>> >>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Hello All, >>>> >>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to >>>> get >>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>> username >>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>>> >>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>> com >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>> bal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo > bal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5348 (20100806) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5348 (20100806) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5348 (20100806) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From tom at tomladis.com Mon Aug 9 17:54:28 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 12:54:28 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an accessibility issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete my order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an account. They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, even with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text read out loud. I expect that this will become more and more popular among the developers and more and more of a problem for blind people. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >pasted in to the form field to be entered. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Danielsen" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >> inaccessible >> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio captcha. >> These were very simple questions that would require a human response, >> such >> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, 5, >> 14, >> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >> animal? >> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some forms >> of >> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there is >> no >> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns of >> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> Hello Charles and everyone, >> >> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop >> these >> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >> captcha >> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >> breaking >> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives >> to >> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us >> to >> use. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Derek, >>> >>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites >>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of >>> them >>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>> >>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>> >>> >>> Tom >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >>>> and >>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>> >>>> QUOTE >>>> >>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>>> from >>>> an >>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>> >>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>> members' >>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>> community. >>>> >>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >>>> from >>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>> various >>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>> password >>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented >>>> in >>>> a >>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >>>> tell >>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>> websites. >>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site >>>> from >>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >>>> typically used by spammers. >>>> >>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. >>>> To >>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>>> day, >>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>> >>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during >>>> the >>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>>> allow >>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>> >>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you >>>> can >>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>> available >>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>>> Source: >>>> >> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>> faqid=3065 >>>> >>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>>> will >>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>>> LinkedIn. >>>> >>>> END QUOTE >>>> >>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>>> their >>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Derek >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>> >>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>> >>>> Peter Donahue >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >>>> was >>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>> >>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello All, >>>>> >>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>> through >>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to >>>>> get >>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>> username >>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the >>>>> same >>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>> account. >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Tom >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>> com >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>> bal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >> bal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >> com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From lists at zufelt.ca Mon Aug 9 18:02:16 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 14:02:16 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <2A1E48B9-C6B0-4462-A943-9DD097E1B8C1@zufelt.ca> These types of CAPTCHA scenarios baffle me. At the point that someone is verifying their identity with at least a billing address and payment method I think that it is safe to assume that they are human and not a computer. The overuse of CAPTCHAs where they make no sense, like on inflight wifi connections, is certainly an expansion of the standard CAPTCHA problem. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-09, at 1:54 PM, Tom Ladis wrote: > Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an accessibility issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete my order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an account. They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, even with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text read out loud. > > I expect that this will become more and more popular among the developers and more and more of a problem for blind people. > > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and pasted in to the form field to be entered. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the inaccessible >>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio captcha. >>> These were very simple questions that would require a human response, such >>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, 5, 14, >>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an animal? >>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some forms of >>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there is no >>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns of >>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>> >>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop these >>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio captcha >>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not breaking >>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using alternatives to >>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us to >>> use. >>> Chuck >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Derek, >>>> >>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other sites >>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of them >>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>> >>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>> >>>> >>>> Tom >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >>>>> and >>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>> >>>>> QUOTE >>>>> >>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters from >>>>> an >>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>> >>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>>> members' >>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our community. >>>>> >>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community safe >>>>> from >>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>>> various >>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>> password >>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented in >>>>> a >>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to >>>>> tell >>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>> websites. >>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site from >>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>> >>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. To >>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the day, >>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help section.) >>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during the >>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>>>> allow >>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>> >>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you can >>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>> available >>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>>>> Source: >>>>> >>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>> >>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. This >>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>>>> will >>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>> >>>>> END QUOTE >>>>> >>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get their >>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Derek >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>> >>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>> >>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>> >>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >>>>> was >>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>> >>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>> >>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>> >>>>> Mike >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>> >>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past through >>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to get >>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>> username >>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the same >>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my account. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>> bal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>> al.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>> bal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>> com >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Aug 9 19:26:16 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 15:26:16 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> <83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13> <000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com> <39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, use a verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and fill in the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a verbal code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an > accessibility > issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete my > order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an account. > They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, even > with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text read > out loud. > > I expect that this will become more and more popular among the developers > and more and more of a problem for blind people. > > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Danielsen" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>> inaccessible >>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio captcha. >>> These were very simple questions that would require a human response, >>> such >>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, 5, >>> 14, >>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>> animal? >>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>> forms >>> of >>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there is >>> no >>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns >>> of >>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>> >>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop >>> these >>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>> captcha >>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>> breaking >>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>> alternatives >>> to >>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us >>> to >>> use. >>> Chuck >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Derek, >>>> >>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>> sites >>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of >>>> them >>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>> >>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>> >>>> >>>> Tom >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a captcha >>>>> and >>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>> >>>>> QUOTE >>>>> >>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>>>> from >>>>> an >>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>> >>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>>> members' >>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>> community. >>>>> >>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>> safe >>>>> from >>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>>> various >>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>> password >>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented >>>>> in >>>>> a >>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test >>>>> to >>>>> tell >>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>> websites. >>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site >>>>> from >>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a technique >>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>> >>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA prompts. >>>>> To >>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>>>> day, >>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>> section.) >>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during >>>>> the >>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>>>> allow >>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We do >>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>> >>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you >>>>> can >>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>> available >>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>>>> Source: >>>>> >>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>> >>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>> This >>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>>>> will >>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>> >>>>> END QUOTE >>>>> >>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>>>> their >>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Derek >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>> >>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>> >>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but I >>>>> was >>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>> >>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>> >>>>> Mike >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>> >>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>> through >>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to >>>>>> get >>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>> username >>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the >>>>>> same >>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>> account. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>> bal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>> al.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>> bal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>> com >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 02:35:00 -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 02:35:00 From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Mon Aug 9 22:15:53 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 16:15:53 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] blind lawyer in Maryland who does family law Message-ID: <2417DAE1DEA34FD6AC28E7927819D898@labarre> Greetings, I have gotten a request for a blind lawyer who does family law in Maryland. If you are such a person or know of such a person/persons, please write me off list at the info below. Regards, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From JFreeh at nfb.org Tue Aug 10 07:42:21 2010 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 02:42:21 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of Blind Students Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of Blind Students Calls for Equal Access to Information and Technology in America’s Universities Baltimore, Maryland (August 9, 2010): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB) responded today to recent attacks on the right of blind students to have equal access to technologies used by America’s universities and to the textbooks and course materials offered by institutions of higher learning. The NFB and the United States Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division, have come under attack in recent days for reaching settlements with universities requiring that the universities refrain from purchasing any e-book technology that is not fully accessible to the blind. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: “Blind students must have access to the same textbooks and course materials and the same technology to read them as all other students. This is not only a matter of fairness to blind students but a requirement of federal law. For this reason, we applaud the United States Department of Justice, acting at our request and pursuant to its mandate to enforce this nation’s disability rights laws, for reaching landmark settlements with colleges and universities ensuring that e-book technologies deployed by these institutions will be accessible to all their students. With the announcement of a new accessible Amazon Kindle, the recent introduction of the Apple iPad, and the promise of future accessible e-book products­many of which would not have been made accessible without our advocacy efforts­colleges and universities will find it increasingly easy to procure e-book technology that benefits everyone. These settlements benefit not only blind students, who will now have access to the same books at the same time and at the same price as their sighted peers, but also institutions of higher learning, which will no longer incur the administrative burden of producing or procuring accessible books through separate and inferior methods. To the extent that inaccessible e-book technology remains a barrier to the equal education of the blind, however, the National Federation of the Blind will continue to fight for the educational and legal rights of blind students, and we will not hesitate to call upon the Department of Justice and other government authorities to assist us in doing so when necessary.” ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people’s lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. From dwilson.lists at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 04:17:32 2010 From: dwilson.lists at gmail.com (Derek Wilson) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 13:17:32 +0900 Subject: [blindlaw] National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of Blind Students In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nice to know someone understands that we cannot hope to achieve a more egalitarian society without greater equality of opportunity. Education is square one. Anybody else feel like technology has put us on a proverbial treadmill in advancing such equality? Are we moving hard or hardly moving... or both? DW On 8/10/10, Freeh, Jessica wrote: > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > > CONTACT: > > Chris Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > National Federation of the Blind > > (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 > > (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > > cdanielsen at nfb.org > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of Blind Students > > > > > > Calls for Equal Access to Information and Technology in America’s > Universities > > > > Baltimore, Maryland (August 9, 2010): The > National Federation of the Blind (NFB) responded > today to recent attacks on the right of blind > students to have equal access to technologies > used by America’s universities and to the > textbooks and course materials offered by > institutions of higher learning. The NFB and the > United States Department of Justice, Civil Rights > Division, have come under attack in recent days > for reaching settlements with universities > requiring that the universities refrain from > purchasing any e-book technology that is not fully accessible to the blind. > > > > Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National > Federation of the Blind, said: “Blind students > must have access to the same textbooks and course > materials and the same technology to read them as > all other students. This is not only a matter of > fairness to blind students but a requirement of > federal law. For this reason, we applaud the > United States Department of Justice, acting at > our request and pursuant to its mandate to > enforce this nation’s disability rights laws, for > reaching landmark settlements with colleges and > universities ensuring that e-book technologies > deployed by these institutions will be accessible > to all their students. With the announcement of > a new accessible Amazon Kindle, the recent > introduction of the Apple iPad, and the promise > of future accessible e-book products­many of > which would not have been made accessible without > our advocacy efforts­colleges and universities > will find it increasingly easy to procure e-book > technology that benefits everyone. These > settlements benefit not only blind students, who > will now have access to the same books at the > same time and at the same price as their sighted > peers, but also institutions of higher learning, > which will no longer incur the administrative > burden of producing or procuring accessible books > through separate and inferior methods. To the > extent that inaccessible e-book technology > remains a barrier to the equal education of the > blind, however, the National Federation of the > Blind will continue to fight for the educational > and legal rights of blind students, and we will > not hesitate to call upon the Department of > Justice and other government authorities to > assist us in doing so when necessary.” > > > > > > ### > > > > About the National Federation of the Blind > > With more than 50,000 members, the National > Federation of the Blind is the largest and most > influential membership organization of blind > people in the "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" > />United States. The NFB improves blind people’s > lives through advocacy, education, research, > technology, and programs encouraging independence > and self-confidence. It is the leading force in > the blindness field today and the voice of the > nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened > the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan > Institute, the first research and training center > in the United States for the blind led by the blind. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gmail.com > From kolby12091988 at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 04:43:48 2010 From: kolby12091988 at gmail.com (Kolby) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:43:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Law School Experiences Message-ID: <003601cb390f$cd299c20$677cd460$@com> Hello Everyone, I am a totally blind college student, and I am pursuing my undergraduate degree in Communication Studies. I am considering attending law school after I graduate in two years' time. I would like to know about all of your law school experiences if you would not mind sharing them. What law school did you attend? What accommodations did you request? What accommodations were you provided with? What challenges did you encounter, and how did you resolve said challenges? How available and/or accessible are law school materials? Would any of you be willing to talk with me via telephone or skype? Are there resources available on the internet that I could begin exploring? Thank you in advance for any feedback on my questions, kolby From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Aug 11 15:49:56 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:49:56 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: KCWWL Announcement Law Student Work Study position- need your help! Message-ID: From: Noel Nightingale [mailto:nnightingale at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:40 PM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: FW: KCWWL Announcement Law Student Work Study position- need your help! From: KCWWL-Announce at v2.listbox.com [mailto:KCWWL-Announce at v2.listbox.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 9:13 AM To: KCWWL-Announce Subject: KCWWL Announcement Law Student Work Study position- need your help! Dear friends and colleagues! Do you know a law student who may be interested in a position with the truancy unit at Pierce County Juvenile Court? See below for details- this is a copy of the posting that will go on the law school work-study directory. Please direct any candidates to Meg McCann at the contact info below. Thank you!! Organization: Pierce County Juvenile Court Contact person: Meg McCann, Attorney Pierce County Juvenile Court 5501 6th Ave Tacoma, WA 98406 253.798.7984 mmccann at co.pierce.wa.us Job description: Represent Pierce County School Districts in truancy proceedings: review truancy petitions for filing; appear in court on the truancy docket; interview and prepare witnesses for contested fact-finding hearings; and present evidence and witnesses at contested hearings. Hours/schedule: Tuesdays 8:30 until 2 (flexible); and Thursdays 8:30 until 3:30 p.m. Must be able to start around September 1st. Pay: $15 an hour, work study eligibility required (volunteers also welcomed!) Qualifications: (i.e. Rule 9, 2L, etc.) 2L and 3L, interest in litigation/social justice/working with youth and families Application materials: Resume, cover letter, brief writing sample. _____________________________________________________________ IMPORTANT: Attorney-Client Privilege- Emails to clients of this office presumptively and normally contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Emails to non-clients are normally confidential and may be privileged. The use, distribution, transmittal or re-transmittal by an unintended recipient of any communication is prohibited without our express approval in writing or by email. Any use, distribution, transmittal or re-transmittal by persons who are not intended recipients of this email may be a violation of law and is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender and delete all copies. ________________________________ Please visit KCWWL's webpage for more information about events of interest to our members: http://www.kcwwl.org To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=6521956&id_secret=6521956-4fa59522 Archives [cid:~WRD000.jpg] | Unsubscribe Now [cid:~WRD000.jpg] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ~WRD000.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: ~WRD000.jpg URL: From tom at tomladis.com Wed Aug 11 15:58:48 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:58:48 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> Message-ID: My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is a jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS announces the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the string a problem either way. Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not know how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about and using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, I encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out loud. This is a bigger barrier. These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in this area. Thanks, Tom Ladis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this > discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, use a > verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and fill > in > the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the > online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a > verbal > code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >> accessibility >> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete my >> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an account. >> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >> even >> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >> read >> out loud. >> >> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the developers >> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >> >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>> Chuck >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>> inaccessible >>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>> captcha. >>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human response, >>>> such >>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, >>>> 5, >>>> 14, >>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>> animal? >>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>> forms >>>> of >>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there >>>> is >>>> no >>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns >>>> of >>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>> >>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop >>>> these >>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>> >>>> Peter Donahue >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>> captcha >>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>> breaking >>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>> alternatives >>>> to >>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for us >>>> to >>>> use. >>>> Chuck >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Derek, >>>>> >>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>> sites >>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of >>>>> them >>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>> >>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tom >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>> captcha >>>>>> and >>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>> >>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>> >>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>>>>> from >>>>>> an >>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>> >>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>>>> members' >>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>> community. >>>>>> >>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>> safe >>>>>> from >>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>>>> various >>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>> password >>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers presented >>>>>> in >>>>>> a >>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test >>>>>> to >>>>>> tell >>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>> websites. >>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site >>>>>> from >>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>> technique >>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>> >>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>> prompts. >>>>>> To >>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>>>>> day, >>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>> section.) >>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn during >>>>>> the >>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which will >>>>>> allow >>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We >>>>>> do >>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, you >>>>>> can >>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>> available >>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" page. >>>>>> Source: >>>>>> >>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>> >>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>> This >>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This issue >>>>>> will >>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed by >>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>> >>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>> >>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>>>>> their >>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Derek >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>> >>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but >>>>>> I >>>>>> was >>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>> >>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>> through >>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able to >>>>>>> get >>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>> username >>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that they >>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the >>>>>>> same >>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be a >>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>> account. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature >>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature >>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>> bal.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>> al.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>> bal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>> com >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 > 02:35:00 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 02:35:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Wed Aug 11 16:46:29 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:46:29 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> <83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13> <000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com> <39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> Message-ID: <0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after getting the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a couple of times. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is a > jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS announces > the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the > string a problem either way. > > Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not > know > how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about > and > using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, I > encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out > loud. This is a bigger barrier. > > These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating > procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in > this area. > > > Thanks, > Tom Ladis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, use >> a >> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and fill >> in >> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >> verbal >> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>> accessibility >>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete my >>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an account. >>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>> even >>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>> read >>> out loud. >>> >>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>> developers >>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>> >>> >>> Tom >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>> Chuck >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>> inaccessible >>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>> captcha. >>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human response, >>>>> such >>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, >>>>> 5, >>>>> 14, >>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>>> animal? >>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>> forms >>>>> of >>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there >>>>> is >>>>> no >>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns >>>>> of >>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>> >>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop >>>>> these >>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>> >>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>>> captcha >>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>> breaking >>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>> alternatives >>>>> to >>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for >>>>> us >>>>> to >>>>> use. >>>>> Chuck >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Derek, >>>>>> >>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>> sites >>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of >>>>>> them >>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>>>>> members' >>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>> community. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>>> safe >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>>>>> various >>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>> password >>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>> presented >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> tell >>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>> technique >>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>> To >>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>>>>>> day, >>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>> during >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> allow >>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>> available >>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>> page. >>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>> This >>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>> issue >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed >>>>>>> by >>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the >>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>> al.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>> bal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >> 02:35:00 >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 > 02:35:00 > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 02:34:00 -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 02:34:00 From graham.hardy at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 19:04:21 2010 From: graham.hardy at gmail.com (Graham Hardy) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:04:21 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Law School Experiences In-Reply-To: <003601cb390f$cd299c20$677cd460$@com> References: <003601cb390f$cd299c20$677cd460$@com> Message-ID: <9DE686BBA765477DA1B1D249B4D79479@Desktop> Kolby, I might be able to help you a lot. I'm about to start law school this September at the University of British Columbia. It won't matter if you're intending to go to an American school because most things about experiences at law school are similar, from what I've read, between Canada and the U.S. I'm most likely going to start an official blog on the Faculty's website about my experiences as a first-year law student, which, although it won't have much to do with blindness, you may find particularly interesting to read along with other people who blog about their experiences. It's not set up yet, but if you're interested I'll let you know when it goes live. In the mean time, you might find it helpful to research law schools and their admissions processes. You'll find a wealth of information on the internet. I made the mistake of being interested in only one school, UBC. I'm fairly sure that most people apply to at least two, because of how competitive the admissions can be and the likelihood of not getting into one place. You might also want to consider factors that are important to you in the school you ultimately choose to attend. I am fairly tight on money, so tuition was a big concern for me, though for some reason I didn't discover I'm at one of the cheapest places until after being admitted. I also didn't want to have to move away from family and friends. But research areas and course selections are also rather important. From what I hear, U.S. law schools have a huge aspect of rank to them, so that Harvard is supposed to be highly sought after, despite its tuition. But apart from all this, some law schools are much harder to get into than others and some have very different admissions processes, which may also be a consideration. The only challenge I've had so far is the LSAT, which all applicants to law schools approved by the American Bar Association and the similar bar associations in some other countries must write in order to be ranked on their excellence in certain abilities deemed essential for law students, such as critical thinking. There are different ways of tackling that test, mainly about conquering the accomodations restrictions and the problematic accessibility of most preparation materials. The one that I pursued might be a bit belittling to some blind people. My university has a special discressionary category for applicants with certain challenges, and so I applied in this category and told them specifically about my many challenges with this test and how there were other things about me that were far more indicative, I felt, of how I could be in their program. I would, however, suggest that you give the test a try. If you can afford a tutor, for instance, you might find that doing really well would help you in the longrun. I know I would have felt better about getting in in the regular category with a competitive LSAT score and what not. As to accomodations. I suspect it will be similar to whatever you do now, provided you stay at the same university, or similar otherwise. UBC, where I also did an undergraduate degree, has a pretty good system. They have a resource centre where you hand in your textbooks and they give you e-text or audio, depending on what you want. I've told them I don't want any PDF files and that I need Microsoft Word files, and they've been doing that for me. They also have accomodations processes for exams, where they schedule you to write at the same time as your class in a room in their offices with a computer. I get a laptop with JAWS and a refreshable braille display. (I conveniently got them to agree to putting a braille display into my accomodations before they realised they needed to buy one.) The Faculty of Law are also quite accomodating. I asked them for my professors' contact information because I wanted to find the textbooks to hand in to be transcribed before needing them in September, but they said that normally they don't have the schedules ready till the very first day of classes. This wasn't going to work for me, as you might imagine, so I calmly explained why it was important and they got my schedule organised a few weeks ago. That's about it. I know there are internet resources to be used, but I don't know much about them. I also know there are domestic and international law journals, most of which have funny abbreviated names like D.L.R. and S.C.R., which contain case law. I have no idea of how judges, lawyers and law students can possibly go through what seems like millions upon millions of large volumes in print. It might just be my ignorance. If you do want to, I can certainly talk with you on Skype or something similar, as long as I can get it set up properly. Let me know if I can help any further. All very best, Graham -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kolby Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2010 9:44 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Law School Experiences Hello Everyone, I am a totally blind college student, and I am pursuing my undergraduate degree in Communication Studies. I am considering attending law school after I graduate in two years' time. I would like to know about all of your law school experiences if you would not mind sharing them. What law school did you attend? What accommodations did you request? What accommodations were you provided with? What challenges did you encounter, and how did you resolve said challenges? How available and/or accessible are law school materials? Would any of you be willing to talk with me via telephone or skype? Are there resources available on the internet that I could begin exploring? Thank you in advance for any feedback on my questions, kolby _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/graham.hardy%40gma il.com From agtolentino at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 19:28:05 2010 From: agtolentino at gmail.com (Aser Tolentino) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:28:05 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Law School Experiences In-Reply-To: <9DE686BBA765477DA1B1D249B4D79479@Desktop> References: <003601cb390f$cd299c20$677cd460$@com> <9DE686BBA765477DA1B1D249B4D79479@Desktop> Message-ID: Hi Kolby, I graduated from UC Davis School of Law in May and have since taken the CA bar exam. If you have specific questions or would just like to chat, please feel free to contact me off list. Aser On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Graham Hardy wrote: > Kolby, > > I might be able to help you a lot. I'm about to start law school this > September at the University of British Columbia. It won't matter if you're > intending to go to an American school because most things about experiences > at law school are similar, from what I've read, between Canada and the U.S. > > I'm most likely going to start an official blog on the Faculty's website > about my experiences as a first-year law student, which, although it won't > have much to do with blindness, you may find particularly interesting to > read along with other people who blog about their experiences. It's not set > up yet, but if you're interested I'll let you know when it goes live. > > In the mean time, you might find it helpful to research law schools and > their admissions processes. You'll find a wealth of information on the > internet. I made the mistake of being interested in only one school, UBC. > I'm fairly sure that most people apply to at least two, because of how > competitive the admissions can be and the likelihood of not getting into > one > place. You might also want to consider factors that are important to you in > the school you ultimately choose to attend. I am fairly tight on money, so > tuition was a big concern for me, though for some reason I didn't discover > I'm at one of the cheapest places until after being admitted. I also didn't > want to have to move away from family and friends. But research areas and > course selections are also rather important. From what I hear, U.S. law > schools have a huge aspect of rank to them, so that Harvard is supposed to > be highly sought after, despite its tuition. But apart from all this, some > law schools are much harder to get into than others and some have very > different admissions processes, which may also be a consideration. > > The only challenge I've had so far is the LSAT, which all applicants to law > schools approved by the American Bar Association and the similar bar > associations in some other countries must write in order to be ranked on > their excellence in certain abilities deemed essential for law students, > such as critical thinking. There are different ways of tackling that test, > mainly about conquering the accomodations restrictions and the problematic > accessibility of most preparation materials. The one that I pursued might > be > a bit belittling to some blind people. My university has a special > discressionary category for applicants with certain challenges, and so I > applied in this category and told them specifically about my many > challenges > with this test and how there were other things about me that were far more > indicative, I felt, of how I could be in their program. I would, however, > suggest that you give the test a try. If you can afford a tutor, for > instance, you might find that doing really well would help you in the > longrun. I know I would have felt better about getting in in the regular > category with a competitive LSAT score and what not. > > As to accomodations. I suspect it will be similar to whatever you do now, > provided you stay at the same university, or similar otherwise. UBC, where > I > also did an undergraduate degree, has a pretty good system. They have a > resource centre where you hand in your textbooks and they give you e-text > or > audio, depending on what you want. I've told them I don't want any PDF > files > and that I need Microsoft Word files, and they've been doing that for me. > They also have accomodations processes for exams, where they schedule you > to > write at the same time as your class in a room in their offices with a > computer. I get a laptop with JAWS and a refreshable braille display. (I > conveniently got them to agree to putting a braille display into my > accomodations before they realised they needed to buy one.) The Faculty of > Law are also quite accomodating. I asked them for my professors' contact > information because I wanted to find the textbooks to hand in to be > transcribed before needing them in September, but they said that normally > they don't have the schedules ready till the very first day of classes. > This > wasn't going to work for me, as you might imagine, so I calmly explained > why > it was important and they got my schedule organised a few weeks ago. > > That's about it. I know there are internet resources to be used, but I > don't > know much about them. I also know there are domestic and international law > journals, most of which have funny abbreviated names like D.L.R. and > S.C.R., > which contain case law. I have no idea of how judges, lawyers and law > students can possibly go through what seems like millions upon millions of > large volumes in print. It might just be my ignorance. > > If you do want to, I can certainly talk with you on Skype or something > similar, as long as I can get it set up properly. Let me know if I can help > any further. > > All very best, > Graham > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Kolby > Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2010 9:44 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] Law School Experiences > > Hello Everyone, > I am a totally blind college student, and I am pursuing my undergraduate > degree in Communication Studies. I am considering attending law school > after > I graduate in two years' time. I would like to know about all of your law > school experiences if you would not mind sharing them. What law school did > you attend? What accommodations did you request? What accommodations were > you provided with? What challenges did you encounter, and how did you > resolve said challenges? How available and/or accessible are law school > materials? Would any of you be willing to talk with me via telephone or > skype? Are there resources available on the internet that I could begin > exploring? > Thank you in advance for any feedback on my questions, kolby > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/graham.hardy%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com > From devinenora at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 19:39:46 2010 From: devinenora at gmail.com (Nora Devine) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 12:39:46 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Law School Experiences In-Reply-To: <003601cb390f$cd299c20$677cd460$@com> References: <003601cb390f$cd299c20$677cd460$@com> Message-ID: Hi Kolby! I am an individual with low vision currently attending law school at the University of San Francisco. I recommend you join the National Association of Law Students with Disabilities. Go to http://www.nalswd.org/ for more information and to become a member. Law students with disabilities are organizing to make law school accessible for all individuals with disabilities. NALSWD will also be publishing recommendations for requesting accommodations on the LSAT in the next few week. Check it out at http://www.nalswd.org/resources.php?option=3! I'd be happy to discuss more with you via phone if you wish. I am also interested to learn about the experiences of other students who are blind or have low vision. -Problems encountered in law school I use magnification software and screen readers for all assignments and readings. The biggest problems I have are with text books and legal research websites like Lexisnexis and Westlaw. Law text books often include massive footnotes that span pages. When my books are converted to e-text the footnotes run into the main text and make the book extremely hard to follow. I am always searching for the end of the footnote or the beginning of the same footnote on the following page. It's very hard to distinguish and navigate the book's main text and the footnotes. This is frustrating and I hope with the dawn of e-text books for all this problem with be solved. Lexisnexis and Westlaw website are difficult to use due to the screen layouts. The layouts have multiple headers and sidebars that usually cannot be collapsed. This presents a problem for me sometimes when I magnify the screen as it limits the size of the window containing the information I need to read or work with. I have to use various work-arounds (e.g. copying the relevant information into Word, downloading the information when possible etc.) to be able to read and work with information presented on these websites. This is not ideal as it can sometimes be time consuming. Westlaw does have a separate text-only website that doesn't have this screen layout problem and is great for basic research, but its features are nothing compared to Westlaw's regular website. If anyone has ideas on how to get around these problem, I'd appreciate hearing from you! These website issues may not be problems for you though. I hear Lexisnexis and Westlaw websites work well with JAWS. Wish you well! and feel free to contact me anytime! Best Regards, Nora Devine Juris Doctor Candidate 2012 University of San Francisco School of Law Tel: 510-508-4209 devinenora at gmail.com 2010/8/10 Kolby > Hello Everyone, > I am a totally blind college student, and I am pursuing my undergraduate > degree in Communication Studies. I am considering attending law school > after > I graduate in two years' time. I would like to know about all of your law > school experiences if you would not mind sharing them. What law school did > you attend? What accommodations did you request? What accommodations were > you provided with? What challenges did you encounter, and how did you > resolve said challenges? How available and/or accessible are law school > materials? Would any of you be willing to talk with me via telephone or > skype? Are there resources available on the internet that I could begin > exploring? > Thank you in advance for any feedback on my questions, > kolby > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/devinenora%40gmail.com > > -- > Best Regards, > > Nora Devine > Juris Doctor Candidate 2012 > University of San Francisco School of Law > Tel: 510-508-4209 > devinenora at gmail.com > > > From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Aug 11 20:13:38 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 13:13:38 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Law School Experiences In-Reply-To: References: <003601cb390f$cd299c20$677cd460$@com> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3E3C7@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Just a follow-up on the computer research stuff, that law professors might not know to tell you about - as far as Westlaw, I have found the text -only version to be much easier to use with my magnification /narration software, through "on the job" experience. (I was only highly myopic in law school, just began losing vision altogether in the last 2 years). It is a pretty basic site, but there is a new program on the horizon for which I participated in a test evaluation ("Next"). It is even easier to use with adaptive equipment. If your school has access to it, you will be very pleasantly surprised. It does still have glitches, but they have a team dedicated to listening to users of all varieties of adaptive equipment and modifying the product to meet their needs and concerns. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nora Devine Sent: Wednesday, 11 August, 2010 12:40 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Law School Experiences Hi Kolby! I am an individual with low vision currently attending law school at the University of San Francisco. I recommend you join the National Association of Law Students with Disabilities. Go to http://www.nalswd.org/ for more information and to become a member. Law students with disabilities are organizing to make law school accessible for all individuals with disabilities. NALSWD will also be publishing recommendations for requesting accommodations on the LSAT in the next few week. Check it out at http://www.nalswd.org/resources.php?option=3! I'd be happy to discuss more with you via phone if you wish. I am also interested to learn about the experiences of other students who are blind or have low vision. -Problems encountered in law school I use magnification software and screen readers for all assignments and readings. The biggest problems I have are with text books and legal research websites like Lexisnexis and Westlaw. Law text books often include massive footnotes that span pages. When my books are converted to e-text the footnotes run into the main text and make the book extremely hard to follow. I am always searching for the end of the footnote or the beginning of the same footnote on the following page. It's very hard to distinguish and navigate the book's main text and the footnotes. This is frustrating and I hope with the dawn of e-text books for all this problem with be solved. Lexisnexis and Westlaw website are difficult to use due to the screen layouts. The layouts have multiple headers and sidebars that usually cannot be collapsed. This presents a problem for me sometimes when I magnify the screen as it limits the size of the window containing the information I need to read or work with. I have to use various work-arounds (e.g. copying the relevant information into Word, downloading the information when possible etc.) to be able to read and work with information presented on these websites. This is not ideal as it can sometimes be time consuming. Westlaw does have a separate text-only website that doesn't have this screen layout problem and is great for basic research, but its features are nothing compared to Westlaw's regular website. If anyone has ideas on how to get around these problem, I'd appreciate hearing from you! These website issues may not be problems for you though. I hear Lexisnexis and Westlaw websites work well with JAWS. Wish you well! and feel free to contact me anytime! Best Regards, Nora Devine Juris Doctor Candidate 2012 University of San Francisco School of Law Tel: 510-508-4209 devinenora at gmail.com 2010/8/10 Kolby > Hello Everyone, > I am a totally blind college student, and I am pursuing my undergraduate > degree in Communication Studies. I am considering attending law school > after > I graduate in two years' time. I would like to know about all of your law > school experiences if you would not mind sharing them. What law school did > you attend? What accommodations did you request? What accommodations were > you provided with? What challenges did you encounter, and how did you > resolve said challenges? How available and/or accessible are law school > materials? Would any of you be willing to talk with me via telephone or > skype? Are there resources available on the internet that I could begin > exploring? > Thank you in advance for any feedback on my questions, > kolby > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/devinenora%40g mail.com > > -- > Best Regards, > > Nora Devine > Juris Doctor Candidate 2012 > University of San Francisco School of Law > Tel: 510-508-4209 > devinenora at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Wed Aug 11 22:46:48 2010 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 18:46:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> <0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC> Message-ID: <40C9A99D661943458493579FA51B9B1E@Scorpio13> I finally encountered the LinkedIn barrier. I clicked on the audio link, and Windows Media Player opened, but I got an error message saying that Windows Media Player could not play the file. The error message said that either the file or the codec with which it was compressed were not supported. Did anyone else have this problem? This was on my work PC; on my Netbook I am able to log in to the service automatically, because I guess at some point I must have allowed LinkedIn to "remember" me. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 12:46 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after getting the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a couple of times. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is a > jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS announces > the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the > string a problem either way. > > Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not > know > how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about > and > using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, I > encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out > loud. This is a bigger barrier. > > These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating > procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in > this area. > > > Thanks, > Tom Ladis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, use >> a >> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and fill >> in >> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >> verbal >> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>> accessibility >>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete my >>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an account. >>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>> even >>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>> read >>> out loud. >>> >>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>> developers >>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>> >>> >>> Tom >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>> Chuck >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>> inaccessible >>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>> captcha. >>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human response, >>>>> such >>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, >>>>> 5, >>>>> 14, >>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>>> animal? >>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>> forms >>>>> of >>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there >>>>> is >>>>> no >>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns >>>>> of >>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>> >>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop >>>>> these >>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>> >>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>>> captcha >>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>> breaking >>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>> alternatives >>>>> to >>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for >>>>> us >>>>> to >>>>> use. >>>>> Chuck >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Derek, >>>>>> >>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>> sites >>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of >>>>>> them >>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>>>>> members' >>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>> community. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>>> safe >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>>>>> various >>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>> password >>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>> presented >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> tell >>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>> technique >>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>> To >>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>>>>>> day, >>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>> during >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> allow >>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>> available >>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>> page. >>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>> This >>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>> issue >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed >>>>>>> by >>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the >>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>> al.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>> bal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >> 02:35:00 >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 > 02:35:00 > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 02:34:00 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5359 (20100811) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5359 (20100811) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5359 (20100811) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 11 23:04:22 2010 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 16:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <40C9A99D661943458493579FA51B9B1E@Scorpio13> Message-ID: <852089.75022.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Interestingly enough, I tried this yesterday and instead of the WP comeing up with the same error you are referencing, The audio file played with in a format that was easy to hear. --- On Wed, 8/11/10, Chris Danielsen wrote: > From: Chris Danielsen > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 6:46 PM > I finally encountered the LinkedIn > barrier. I clicked on the audio link, and > Windows Media Player opened, but I got an error message > saying that Windows > Media Player could not play the file. The error message > said that either the > file or the codec with which it was compressed were not > supported. Did > anyone else have this problem? This was on my work PC; on > my Netbook I am > able to log in to the service automatically, because I > guess at some point I > must have allowed LinkedIn to "remember" me. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 12:46 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible > To The Blind > > I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control > key after getting > the link.  I can usually silence window eyes.  > Maybe need to repeat it a > couple of times. > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible > To The Blind > > > > My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set > up not.  There is a > > jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, > but JAWS announces > > the new window opening at the same time, which makes > the reading of the > > string a problem either way. > > > > Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to > those who do not > > know > > how to work around screen readers talking at the same > time or know about > > and > > using a third party tool to read the string.  In > the case of Home Depot, I > > encountered a screen where there was no link to have > the string read out > > loud.  This is a bigger barrier. > > > > These barriers are going to get worse and become > standard operating > > procedure for web developers unless something is done > to cause change in > > this area. > > > > > > Thanks, > > Tom Ladis > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made > Inaccessible To The Blind > > > > > >> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head.  > I've been following this > >> discussion closely.  My credit union, there > online banking services, use > >> a > >> verbal code link.  I'm able to click on a > link for a verbal code and fill > >> in > >> the box.  after several discussions with > them, the company running the > >> online banking service was able to create this > link which gives you a > >> verbal > >> code.  Is this the problem with LinkedIn? > >> > >> Steve > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Tom Ladis" > >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made > Inaccessible To The Blind > >> > >> > >>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress > address this as an > >>> accessibility > >>> issue?  I went to the Home Depot website > and was not able to complete my > >>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping > and creating an account. > >>> They are also presenting some garbled text > that I could not get past, > >>> even > >>> with a handheld CCTV.  They did not even > offer a way to have the text > >>> read > >>> out loud. > >>> > >>> I expect that this will become more and more > popular among the > >>> developers > >>> and more and more of a problem for blind > people. > >>> > >>> > >>> Tom > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: > >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made > Inaccessible To The Blind > >>> > >>> > >>>>I have visited sites where that form of > question was used and it was > >>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. > There are also other sites > >>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can > be selected and copied and > >>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. > >>>> Chuck > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" > >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > > >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM > >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been > Made Inaccessible To The > >>>> Blind > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In > Flight, that solved the > >>>>> inaccessible > >>>>> visual captcha problem with logic > questions instead of an audio > >>>>> captcha. > >>>>> These were very simple questions that > would require a human response, > >>>>> such > >>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was > yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, > >>>>> 5, > >>>>> 14, > >>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, > rose, or horse, which is not an > >>>>> animal? > >>>>> Of course I guess this approach might > not work for people with some > >>>>> forms > >>>>> of > >>>>> intellectual or developmental > disability. So it's possible that there > >>>>> is > >>>>> no > >>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one > at least addresses the concerns > >>>>> of > >>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of > deaf-blind ones. > >>>>> > >>>>> Chris > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>>>> On > >>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue > >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM > >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has > Been Made Inaccessible To The > >>>>> Blind > >>>>> > >>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, > >>>>> > >>>>> And what if this person is both blind > and deaf? The folks who develop > >>>>> these > >>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to > consider this population too. > >>>>> > >>>>> Peter Donahue > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: > >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM > >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has > Been Made Inaccessible To The > >>>>> Blind > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> as long as there are alternatives to > solve the captcha such as audio > >>>>> captcha > >>>>> or use of other services such as > Solona or Web Vizum they are not > >>>>> breaking > >>>>> the law. As blind professionals we > need to look toward using > >>>>> alternatives > >>>>> to > >>>>> solve these types of problems and the > alternatives are out there for > >>>>> us > >>>>> to > >>>>> use. > >>>>> Chuck > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" > >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM > >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has > Been Made Inaccessible To The > >>>>> Blind > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Derek, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Interesting that they even make it > a random test.  There are other > >>>>>> sites > >>>>>> that do this type of thing and it > is not fair appropriate for any of > >>>>>> them > >>>>>> to do so.  This needs to > change, for the sake of all blind people. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing > this test? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Tom > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" > >>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing > List'" > >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 > AM > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn > Has Been Made Inaccessible To The > >>>>>> Blind > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> If you are wondering why > sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a > >>>>>>> captcha > >>>>>>> and > >>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to > read on: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> QUOTE > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts > >>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted > for my password or to type in characters > >>>>>>> from > >>>>>>> an > >>>>>>> image shown on the security > verification screen? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to > protecting the privacy and security of our > >>>>>>> members' > >>>>>>> information and maintaining > the mutual trust we share with our > >>>>>>> community. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> As part of our proactive > efforts to keep our members and community > >>>>>>> safe > >>>>>>> from > >>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we > vigorously monitor site activity. At > >>>>>>> various > >>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, > you may be prompted to re-enter your > >>>>>>> password > >>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in > distorted letters or numbers > >>>>>>> presented > >>>>>>> in > >>>>>>> a > >>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA > (Completely Automated Public Turing test > >>>>>>> to > >>>>>>> tell > >>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is > a security method commonly used by > >>>>>>> websites. > >>>>>>> This feature helps to > distinguish human attempts to access the site > >>>>>>> from > >>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated > attempts to access the site, a > >>>>>>> technique > >>>>>>> typically used by spammers. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> At various times, you could > experience an increase in CAPTCHA > >>>>>>> prompts. > >>>>>>> To > >>>>>>> reduce the number of times you > see the security challenge during the > >>>>>>> day, > >>>>>>> you might consider the > following actions: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>   1. Enable > cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help > >>>>>>> section.) > >>>>>>>   2. Ensure > that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn > >>>>>>> during > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> day. We will remember your > last login for a period of time which > >>>>>>> will > >>>>>>> allow > >>>>>>> you to bypass the login > sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We > >>>>>>> do > >>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at > the end of each day. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> If you have difficulty > distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, > >>>>>>> you > >>>>>>> can > >>>>>>> click on the "Try a different > image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also > >>>>>>> available > >>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon > found on the "Security Verification" > >>>>>>> page. > >>>>>>> Source: > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ > >>>>>>> faqid=3065 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, > that I cannot find the audio icon. > >>>>>>> This > >>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my > account - even with a password.  This > >>>>>>> issue > >>>>>>> will > >>>>>>> persist - especially for the > totally blind - until it is addressed > >>>>>>> by > >>>>>>> LinkedIn. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> END QUOTE > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I > encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get > >>>>>>> their > >>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>> Derek > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>>>>>> On > >>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue > >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 > 12:37 PM > >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing > List > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] > LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The > >>>>>>> Blind > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>    Upon reading the > posts about this I checked for myself and was > >>>>>>> automatically logged in. > Linked-In worked as it always does. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Peter Donahue > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" > >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing > List'" > >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, > 2010 5:13 PM > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] > LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The > >>>>>>> Blind > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a > problem with new accounts or only happens > >>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on > this list raised this issue last week but > >>>>>>> I > >>>>>>> was > >>>>>>> able to log into my own > account with no problem. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Chris > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>>>>>> On > >>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman > >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, > 2010 11:34 AM > >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing > List > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] > LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The > >>>>>>> Blind > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence > JAWS? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an > external synth! > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Mike > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" > >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing > List" > >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, > 2010 8:09 AM > >>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn > Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello All, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I received an invitation > to connect to colleagues from the past > >>>>>>>> through > >>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com.  I > have used LinkedIn in the past and been able > >>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>> get > >>>>>>>> around with only a few > problems.  It appears that they have added > >>>>>>>> real-time verification to > the login process on top of the normal > >>>>>>>> username > >>>>>>>> and password.  They > do offer the ability to have the image that > >>>>>>>> they > >>>>>>>> present for real[-time > verification, but the text is spoken at the > >>>>>>>> same > >>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces > the popup window.  This seems to me to be > >>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>> barrier and was not there > the last time that I logged in to my > >>>>>>>> account. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here > use LinkedIn? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>> Tom > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change > your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your > list options or get your account info > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > >>>>>>> com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> __________ Information from > ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > >>>>>>> signature > >>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) > __________ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The message was checked by > ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> __________ Information from > ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > >>>>>>> signature > >>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) > __________ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The message was checked by > ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your > list options or get your account info > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo > >>>>>>> bal.net > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your > list options or get your account info > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm > >>>>>>> ail.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your > list options or get your account info > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > >>>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>>> > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > >>>>> al.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > >>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo > >>>>> bal.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > >>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > >>>>> com > >>>>> > >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 > Antivirus, version of virus > >>>>> signature > >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ > >>>>> > >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 > Antivirus. > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.eset.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 > Antivirus, version of virus > >>>>> signature > >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ > >>>>> > >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 > Antivirus. > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.eset.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 > Antivirus, version of virus > >>>>> signature > >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ > >>>>> > >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 > Antivirus. > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.eset.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > >>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get your account info for > >>>> blindlaw: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > >> > >> > >> > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - > Release Date: 08/09/10 > >> 02:35:00 > >> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - > Release Date: 08/09/10 > > 02:35:00 > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release > Date: 08/11/10 > 02:34:00 > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version > of virus signature > database 5359 (20100811) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version > of virus signature > database 5359 (20100811) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version > of virus signature > database 5359 (20100811) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > From dwilson.lists at gmail.com Thu Aug 12 05:48:30 2010 From: dwilson.lists at gmail.com (Derek Wilson) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 14:48:30 +0900 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <852089.75022.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <40C9A99D661943458493579FA51B9B1E@Scorpio13> <852089.75022.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have been prompted for the Security Verification captcha even while logged in to LinkedIn. It happened when I switched between editing my profile and the discussion forum for one of my groups. Apparently Webvisum works well, but I have yet to register for that free service. One final comment is that the link to hear the audio alternative to the image captcha is not visible using Windows High Contrast theme. Not sure why, but thought there may be other users in my situation who might like to know. Where, per chance, might I find the link to the audio captcha? Thanks. Derek On 8/12/10, William ODonnell wrote: > Interestingly enough, I tried this yesterday and instead of the WP comeing > up with the same error you are referencing, The audio file played with in a > format that was easy to hear. > > > --- On Wed, 8/11/10, Chris Danielsen wrote: > >> From: Chris Danielsen >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 6:46 PM >> I finally encountered the LinkedIn >> barrier. I clicked on the audio link, and >> Windows Media Player opened, but I got an error message >> saying that Windows >> Media Player could not play the file. The error message >> said that either the >> file or the codec with which it was compressed were not >> supported. Did >> anyone else have this problem? This was on my work PC; on >> my Netbook I am >> able to log in to the service automatically, because I >> guess at some point I >> must have allowed LinkedIn to "remember" me. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On >> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 12:46 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible >> To The Blind >> >> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control >> key after getting >> the link.  I can usually silence window eyes. >> Maybe need to repeat it a >> couple of times. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible >> To The Blind >> >> >> > My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set >> up not.  There is a >> > jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, >> but JAWS announces >> > the new window opening at the same time, which makes >> the reading of the >> > string a problem either way. >> > >> > Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to >> those who do not >> > know >> > how to work around screen readers talking at the same >> time or know about >> > and >> > using a third party tool to read the string.  In >> the case of Home Depot, I >> > encountered a screen where there was no link to have >> the string read out >> > loud.  This is a bigger barrier. >> > >> > These barriers are going to get worse and become >> standard operating >> > procedure for web developers unless something is done >> to cause change in >> > this area. >> > >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Tom Ladis >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made >> Inaccessible To The Blind >> > >> > >> >> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. >> I've been following this >> >> discussion closely.  My credit union, there >> online banking services, use >> >> a >> >> verbal code link.  I'm able to click on a >> link for a verbal code and fill >> >> in >> >> the box.  after several discussions with >> them, the company running the >> >> online banking service was able to create this >> link which gives you a >> >> verbal >> >> code.  Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> >> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made >> Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >> >> >> >>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress >> address this as an >> >>> accessibility >> >>> issue?  I went to the Home Depot website >> and was not able to complete my >> >>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping >> and creating an account. >> >>> They are also presenting some garbled text >> that I could not get past, >> >>> even >> >>> with a handheld CCTV.  They did not even >> offer a way to have the text >> >>> read >> >>> out loud. >> >>> >> >>> I expect that this will become more and more >> popular among the >> >>> developers >> >>> and more and more of a problem for blind >> people. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Tom >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: >> >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> >>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >> >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made >> Inaccessible To The Blind >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>>I have visited sites where that form of >> question was used and it was >> >>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. >> There are also other sites >> >>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can >> be selected and copied and >> >>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >> >>>> Chuck >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >> >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> >> >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >> >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been >> Made Inaccessible To The >> >>>> Blind >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In >> Flight, that solved the >> >>>>> inaccessible >> >>>>> visual captcha problem with logic >> questions instead of an audio >> >>>>> captcha. >> >>>>> These were very simple questions that >> would require a human response, >> >>>>> such >> >>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was >> yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, >> >>>>> 5, >> >>>>> 14, >> >>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, >> rose, or horse, which is not an >> >>>>> animal? >> >>>>> Of course I guess this approach might >> not work for people with some >> >>>>> forms >> >>>>> of >> >>>>> intellectual or developmental >> disability. So it's possible that there >> >>>>> is >> >>>>> no >> >>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one >> at least addresses the concerns >> >>>>> of >> >>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of >> deaf-blind ones. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Chris >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >>>>> On >> >>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >> >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >> >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has >> Been Made Inaccessible To The >> >>>>> Blind >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> And what if this person is both blind >> and deaf? The folks who develop >> >>>>> these >> >>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to >> consider this population too. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Peter Donahue >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>> From: >> >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> >> >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has >> Been Made Inaccessible To The >> >>>>> Blind >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> as long as there are alternatives to >> solve the captcha such as audio >> >>>>> captcha >> >>>>> or use of other services such as >> Solona or Web Vizum they are not >> >>>>> breaking >> >>>>> the law. As blind professionals we >> need to look toward using >> >>>>> alternatives >> >>>>> to >> >>>>> solve these types of problems and the >> alternatives are out there for >> >>>>> us >> >>>>> to >> >>>>> use. >> >>>>> Chuck >> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >> >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> >> >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has >> Been Made Inaccessible To The >> >>>>> Blind >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Derek, >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Interesting that they even make it >> a random test.  There are other >> >>>>>> sites >> >>>>>> that do this type of thing and it >> is not fair appropriate for any of >> >>>>>> them >> >>>>>> to do so.  This needs to >> change, for the sake of all blind people. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing >> this test? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Tom >> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >> >>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing >> List'" >> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 >> AM >> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn >> Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >> >>>>>> Blind >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> If you are wondering why >> sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >> >>>>>>> captcha >> >>>>>>> and >> >>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to >> read on: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> QUOTE >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >> >>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted >> for my password or to type in characters >> >>>>>>> from >> >>>>>>> an >> >>>>>>> image shown on the security >> verification screen? >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to >> protecting the privacy and security of our >> >>>>>>> members' >> >>>>>>> information and maintaining >> the mutual trust we share with our >> >>>>>>> community. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> As part of our proactive >> efforts to keep our members and community >> >>>>>>> safe >> >>>>>>> from >> >>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we >> vigorously monitor site activity. At >> >>>>>>> various >> >>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, >> you may be prompted to re-enter your >> >>>>>>> password >> >>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in >> distorted letters or numbers >> >>>>>>> presented >> >>>>>>> in >> >>>>>>> a >> >>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA >> (Completely Automated Public Turing test >> >>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>> tell >> >>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is >> a security method commonly used by >> >>>>>>> websites. >> >>>>>>> This feature helps to >> distinguish human attempts to access the site >> >>>>>>> from >> >>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated >> attempts to access the site, a >> >>>>>>> technique >> >>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> At various times, you could >> experience an increase in CAPTCHA >> >>>>>>> prompts. >> >>>>>>> To >> >>>>>>> reduce the number of times you >> see the security challenge during the >> >>>>>>> day, >> >>>>>>> you might consider the >> following actions: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>   1. Enable >> cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >> >>>>>>> section.) >> >>>>>>>   2. Ensure >> that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >> >>>>>>> during >> >>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>> day. We will remember your >> last login for a period of time which >> >>>>>>> will >> >>>>>>> allow >> >>>>>>> you to bypass the login >> sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We >> >>>>>>> do >> >>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at >> the end of each day. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> If you have difficulty >> distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >> >>>>>>> you >> >>>>>>> can >> >>>>>>> click on the "Try a different >> image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >> >>>>>>> available >> >>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon >> found on the "Security Verification" >> >>>>>>> page. >> >>>>>>> Source: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >> >>>>>>> faqid=3065 >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, >> that I cannot find the audio icon. >> >>>>>>> This >> >>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my >> account - even with a password.  This >> >>>>>>> issue >> >>>>>>> will >> >>>>>>> persist - especially for the >> totally blind - until it is addressed >> >>>>>>> by >> >>>>>>> LinkedIn. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> END QUOTE >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I >> encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >> >>>>>>> their >> >>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Regards, >> >>>>>>> Derek >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >>>>>>> On >> >>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 >> 12:37 PM >> >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing >> List >> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] >> LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >> >>>>>>> Blind >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>    Upon reading the >> posts about this I checked for myself and was >> >>>>>>> automatically logged in. >> Linked-In worked as it always does. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Peter Donahue >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >> >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing >> List'" >> >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, >> 2010 5:13 PM >> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] >> LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >> >>>>>>> Blind >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a >> problem with new accounts or only happens >> >>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on >> this list raised this issue last week but >> >>>>>>> I >> >>>>>>> was >> >>>>>>> able to log into my own >> account with no problem. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Chris >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >>>>>>> On >> >>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >> >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, >> 2010 11:34 AM >> >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing >> List >> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] >> LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >> >>>>>>> Blind >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence >> JAWS? >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an >> external synth! >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Mike >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >> >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing >> List" >> >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, >> 2010 8:09 AM >> >>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn >> Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Hello All, >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> I received an invitation >> to connect to colleagues from the past >> >>>>>>>> through >> >>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com.  I >> have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >> >>>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>>> get >> >>>>>>>> around with only a few >> problems.  It appears that they have added >> >>>>>>>> real-time verification to >> the login process on top of the normal >> >>>>>>>> username >> >>>>>>>> and password.  They >> do offer the ability to have the image that >> >>>>>>>> they >> >>>>>>>> present for real[-time >> verification, but the text is spoken at the >> >>>>>>>> same >> >>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces >> the popup window.  This seems to me to be >> >>>>>>>> a >> >>>>>>>> barrier and was not there >> the last time that I logged in to my >> >>>>>>>> account. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here >> use LinkedIn? >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >> >>>>>>>> Tom >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change >> your list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your >> list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>> blindlaw: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >> >>>>>>> com >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> __________ Information from >> ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> >>>>>>> signature >> >>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) >> __________ >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> The message was checked by >> ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> __________ Information from >> ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> >>>>>>> signature >> >>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) >> __________ >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> The message was checked by >> ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your >> list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>> blindlaw: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >> >>>>>>> bal.net >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your >> list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>> blindlaw: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >> >>>>>>> ail.com >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your >> list options or get your account info >> >>>>>>> for >> >>>>>>> blindlaw: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> >>>>>> blindlaw: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> >>>>> al.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> >>>>> blindlaw: >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >> >>>>> bal.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> >>>>> blindlaw: >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >> >>>>> com >> >>>>> >> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 >> Antivirus, version of virus >> >>>>> signature >> >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 >> Antivirus. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 >> Antivirus, version of virus >> >>>>> signature >> >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 >> Antivirus. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 >> Antivirus, version of virus >> >>>>> signature >> >>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 >> Antivirus. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> >>>>> blindlaw: >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get your account info for >> >>>> blindlaw: >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your account info for >> >>> blindlaw: >> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in >> sightbb.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - >> Release Date: 08/09/10 >> >> 02:35:00 >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> > >> > >> > >> > No virus found in this outgoing message. >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - >> Release Date: 08/09/10 >> > 02:35:00 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in >> sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release >> Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version >> of virus signature >> database 5359 (20100811) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version >> of virus signature >> database 5359 (20100811) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version >> of virus signature >> database 5359 (20100811) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gmail.com > From tom at tomladis.com Thu Aug 12 13:40:01 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 08:40:01 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> <0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC> Message-ID: <050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Hello all, I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security becomes more and more of a concern. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after getting > the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a > couple of times. > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is >> a >> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS announces >> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >> string a problem either way. >> >> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >> know >> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about >> and >> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, >> I >> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out >> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >> >> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in >> this area. >> >> >> Thanks, >> Tom Ladis >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, use >>> a >>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>> fill >>> in >>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>> verbal >>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>> accessibility >>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>> my >>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an account. >>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>> even >>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>> read >>>> out loud. >>>> >>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>> developers >>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>> >>>> >>>> Tom >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>> Chuck >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>> captcha. >>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human response, >>>>>> such >>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, >>>>>> 5, >>>>>> 14, >>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>>>> animal? >>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>> forms >>>>>> of >>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there >>>>>> is >>>>>> no >>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>> concerns >>>>>> of >>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop >>>>>> these >>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>> >>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>>>> captcha >>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>> breaking >>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>> alternatives >>>>>> to >>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for >>>>>> us >>>>>> to >>>>>> use. >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>> sites >>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed >>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the >>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>> al.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>> bal.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature >>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature >>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature >>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >>> 02:35:00 >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >> 02:35:00 >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 > 02:34:00 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 02:34:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 12 14:11:21 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 07:11:21 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC> <050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real issues and stop whining. chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello all, > > I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to > accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily > complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the > internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they > should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human > operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. > > The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these > things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security > becomes more and more of a concern. > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >>I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>getting >> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >> couple of times. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is >>> a >>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>> announces >>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>> string a problem either way. >>> >>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>> know >>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about >>> and >>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, >>> I >>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out >>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>> >>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in >>> this area. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tom Ladis >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>> use >>>> a >>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>> fill >>>> in >>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>> verbal >>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>> accessibility >>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>> my >>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>> account. >>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>> even >>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>> read >>>>> out loud. >>>>> >>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>> developers >>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tom >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>> response, >>>>>>> such >>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>> forms >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> no >>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>> develop >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> use. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed >>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >>> 02:35:00 >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 > 02:34:00 > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From lists at zufelt.ca Thu Aug 12 14:32:22 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:32:22 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC> <050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: Good thing I'm not someone with a multiple disability, say blindness and cognitive or learning. I wouldn't want to seem like a whiner. But seriously, organizations who choose to implement CAPTCHAs need to provide options for individuals who are not able to solve the CAPTCHA with a reasonable degree of ease. In the Drupal community CAPTCHAs are used on the groups pages for submitting posts (http://groups.drupal.org). The community has a policy on CAPTCHAs • We use a form of spam protection called Mollom - you should be aware of their Terms of service. If you are visually impaired please contact the site maintainers and we will change your account so you don't have to interact with Mollom. This is not a perfect solution, the policy is on a page that is not particularly easy to find, and it could be better worded. But, we are moving in the correct direction. The reasoning for using a CAPTCHA is that if a user is subscribed to a group the new messages and comments are sent to their e-mail inbox immediately. This means that any SPAM that gets through to the site is sent out to many users, even if it is later identified and removed from the site. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-12, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real issues and stop whining. > chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>> totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>>>>> where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>>> pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From tom at tomladis.com Thu Aug 12 14:42:12 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:42:12 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <36B9E605F38045FFA8C315415F50412B@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Ouch!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than > insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be > helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real > issues and stop whining. > chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >> becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>>I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>>getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>> is a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>> announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>> about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>> Depot, I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>> out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>> in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>> use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>> fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>> my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>>sites >>>>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Thu Aug 12 14:41:02 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:41:02 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> <0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC> <050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <080701cb3a2c$64154a40$2c3fdec0$@com> OK...this trail has gone on endlessly. Has anyone tried actually calling or contacting support? Maybe you should gather a group of people who could call in with the same complaint. Nitpicking it here in the group is not going to accomplish anything. Obviously some here have said they are not having an issue. Try contacting those people to get a step by step idea of what they are doing. I've seen at least two people say they are not having or have gotten around the problem. Have you tried that at least? Try that and then come back with some sort of plan for those who wish to complain to Linked In and those who wish will complain. I know this is not my group but the same thing is being repeated endlessly and it doesn't seem that you've attempted to get around the problem or find a solution from what others have said. My apologies if this has offended anyone. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tom Ladis Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:40 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Hello all, I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security becomes more and more of a concern. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after getting > the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a > couple of times. > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is >> a >> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS announces >> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >> string a problem either way. >> >> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >> know >> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about >> and >> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, >> I >> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out >> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >> >> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in >> this area. >> >> >> Thanks, >> Tom Ladis >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, use >>> a >>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>> fill >>> in >>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>> verbal >>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>> accessibility >>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>> my >>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an account. >>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>> even >>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>> read >>>> out loud. >>>> >>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>> developers >>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>> >>>> >>>> Tom >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>> Chuck >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>> captcha. >>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human response, >>>>>> such >>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, 9, >>>>>> 5, >>>>>> 14, >>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>>>> animal? >>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>> forms >>>>>> of >>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that there >>>>>> is >>>>>> no >>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>> concerns >>>>>> of >>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who develop >>>>>> these >>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>> >>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>>>> captcha >>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>> breaking >>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>> alternatives >>>>>> to >>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for >>>>>> us >>>>>> to >>>>>> use. >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>> sites >>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any of >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of our >>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. At >>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the site >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). We >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed >>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to get >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at the >>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to be >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>> al.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>> bal.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>> com >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature >>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature >>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature >>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >>> 02:35:00 >>> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >> 02:35:00 >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 > 02:34:00 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 02:34:00 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Thu Aug 12 14:47:01 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:47:01 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <36B9E605F38045FFA8C315415F50412B@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <36B9E605F38045FFA8C315415F50412B@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <081001cb3a2d$3a35e120$aea1a360$@com> Chuck, While I agree that we don't want to appear helpless, I don't agree that this isn't a worthwhile battle. It is of tremendous importance to those of us that encounter this on websites that we travel by necessity. I only think it's whining when a person doesn't make attempts to do anything about it. I guess we all have a difference as to what we feel is worthwhile. -----Original Message----- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than > insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be > helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real > issues and stop whining. > chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >> becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>>I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>>getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>> is a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>> announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>> about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>> Depot, I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>> out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>> in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>> use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>> fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>> my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>>sites >>>>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 12 14:56:21 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:56:21 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <001701cb3a2e$88993640$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Chuck and everyone, And this is a real issue. What Web site will be next to go inaccessible on us? Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real issues and stop whining. chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello all, > > I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to > accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily > complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the > internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they > should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human > operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. > > The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these > things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security > becomes more and more of a concern. > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >>I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>getting >> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >> couple of times. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is >>> a >>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>> announces >>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>> string a problem either way. >>> >>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>> know >>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about >>> and >>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, >>> I >>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out >>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>> >>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in >>> this area. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tom Ladis >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>> use >>>> a >>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>> fill >>>> in >>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>> verbal >>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>> accessibility >>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>> my >>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>> account. >>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>> even >>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>> read >>>>> out loud. >>>>> >>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>> developers >>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tom >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>> response, >>>>>>> such >>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>> forms >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> no >>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>> develop >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> use. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed >>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >>> 02:35:00 >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 > 02:34:00 > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 12 15:01:41 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:01:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <005901cb3a2f$4639ad10$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good morning everyone, Or being blind and deaf. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J. Zufelt" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Good thing I'm not someone with a multiple disability, say blindness and cognitive or learning. I wouldn't want to seem like a whiner. But seriously, organizations who choose to implement CAPTCHAs need to provide options for individuals who are not able to solve the CAPTCHA with a reasonable degree of ease. In the Drupal community CAPTCHAs are used on the groups pages for submitting posts (http://groups.drupal.org). The community has a policy on CAPTCHAs • We use a form of spam protection called Mollom - you should be aware of their Terms of service. If you are visually impaired please contact the site maintainers and we will change your account so you don't have to interact with Mollom. This is not a perfect solution, the policy is on a page that is not particularly easy to find, and it could be better worded. But, we are moving in the correct direction. The reasoning for using a CAPTCHA is that if a user is subscribed to a group the new messages and comments are sent to their e-mail inbox immediately. This means that any SPAM that gets through to the site is sent out to many users, even if it is later identified and removed from the site. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-12, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than > insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be > helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real > issues and stop whining. > chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >> becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>> getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>> is a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>> announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>> about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>> Depot, I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>> out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>> in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>> use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>> fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>> my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>> totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>> sites >>>>>>> where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From tom at tomladis.com Thu Aug 12 15:08:59 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:08:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> <0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <080701cb3a2c$64154a40$2c3fdec0$@com> Message-ID: <71C931AC6D19475CB78574A01EB58C55@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Thanks for your suggestions. You are right that there are workarounds and some of the tests are presented at random. From what I have heard in this discussion is that others have encountered this issue and gotten pleasant responses that led nowhere. Thanks, Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > OK...this trail has gone on endlessly. Has anyone tried actually calling > or > contacting support? Maybe you should gather a group of people who could > call in with the same complaint. Nitpicking it here in the group is not > going to accomplish anything. Obviously some here have said they are not > having an issue. Try contacting those people to get a step by step idea > of > what they are doing. I've seen at least two people say they are not > having > or have gotten around the problem. Have you tried that at least? Try > that > and then come back with some sort of plan for those who wish to complain > to > Linked In and those who wish will complain. > > I know this is not my group but the same thing is being repeated endlessly > and it doesn't seem that you've attempted to get around the problem or > find > a solution from what others have said. > > My apologies if this has offended anyone. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Ladis > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:40 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Hello all, > > I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to > accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily > complicated > > and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the internet when > blind. If they are going to present barriers then they should have to > present an easy way around the barriers for human operators but still > make > it difficult for automated systems. > > The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these > things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security > becomes more and more of a concern. > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >>I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>getting >> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >> couple of times. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is >>> a >>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>> announces >>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>> string a problem either way. >>> >>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>> know >>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about >>> and >>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, >>> I >>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out >>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>> >>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in >>> this area. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tom Ladis >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>> use >>>> a >>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>> fill >>>> in >>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>> verbal >>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>> accessibility >>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>> my >>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>> account. >>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>> even >>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>> read >>>>> out loud. >>>>> >>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>> developers >>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tom >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>> response, >>>>>>> such >>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>> forms >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> no >>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>> develop >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> use. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed >>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>> >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >>> 02:35:00 >>> >>> >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 > 02:34:00 > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From lists at zufelt.ca Thu Aug 12 15:20:00 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:20:00 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <005901cb3a2f$4639ad10$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <005901cb3a2f$4639ad10$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Preface: I am not a lawyer or a U.S. resident. A potentially useful strategy to deal with sites with prohibitive CAPTCHAs. 1. Prepare a brief, easy to understand, letter explaining the barrier caused by CAPTCHAs to many users. Include possible reasonable strategies for accommodating the needs of these users. 2. Find organizations (NFB, ACB, others?) to sponsor the letter. 3. Deliver the letter to the contact for the site. 4. Deliver the letter to the actual company or organization running the site (contact information can sometimes be found on the site, other times it can be found by doing a WhoIs on the domain name). 5. Publish the letter publicly and use social media (Twitter, FaceBook) to attempt to get the attention of the site and the support of others. 6. If the CAPTCHA is preventing you from giving the organization money, or causing you to decide not to give the organization money, include this in the letter. 7. If you have a paid account or subscription to the site (these are available on LinkedIn), you * may * have a cause of action against the organization running the site, depending on jurisdiction. This may also be true if you are not paying for a membership on the site. In Canada all organizations must provide "reasonable" accommodations to individuals with disabilities up to the point of "undue burden", under the Human Rights legislation of each province. However, there is no jurisprudence regarding web-site accessibility and accommodations. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-12, at 11:01 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good morning everyone, > > Or being blind and deaf. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "E.J. Zufelt" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:32 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > Good thing I'm not someone with a multiple disability, say blindness and > cognitive or learning. I wouldn't want to seem like a whiner. > > But seriously, organizations who choose to implement CAPTCHAs need to > provide options for individuals who are not able to solve the CAPTCHA with a > reasonable degree of ease. > > In the Drupal community CAPTCHAs are used on the groups pages for submitting > posts (http://groups.drupal.org). The community has a policy on CAPTCHAs > > • We use a form of spam protection called Mollom - you should be aware of > their Terms of service. If you are visually impaired please contact the site > maintainers and we will change your account so you don't have to interact > with Mollom. > > This is not a perfect solution, the policy is on a page that is not > particularly easy to find, and it could be better worded. But, we are > moving in the correct direction. The reasoning for using a CAPTCHA is that > if a user is subscribed to a group the new messages and comments are sent to > their e-mail inbox immediately. This means that any SPAM that gets through > to the site is sent out to many users, even if it is later identified and > removed from the site. > > HTH, > > Everett Zufelt > http://zufelt.ca > > Follow me on Twitter > http://twitter.com/ezufelt > > View my LinkedIn Profile > http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt > > > > On 2010-08-12, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > >> Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than >> insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be >> helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real >> issues and stop whining. >> chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >>> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >>> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >>> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >>> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >>> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >>> >>> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >>> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >>> becomes more and more of a concern. >>> >>> Tom >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>> >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>>> getting >>>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>>> couple of times. >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>>> is a >>>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>>> announces >>>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>>> string a problem either way. >>>>> >>>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>>> know >>>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>>> about >>>>> and >>>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>>> Depot, I >>>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>>> out >>>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>>> >>>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>>> in >>>>> this area. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Tom Ladis >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>>> >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>>> use >>>>>> a >>>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>>> fill >>>>>> in >>>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>>> verbal >>>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>>> >>>>>> Steve >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>>> accessibility >>>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>>> account. >>>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>>> even >>>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> out loud. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>>> developers >>>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>>> totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>> where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>>> 02:34:00 >>>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Thu Aug 12 16:02:56 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:02:56 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <71C931AC6D19475CB78574A01EB58C55@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> <0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <080701cb3a2c$64154a40$2c3fdec0$@com> <71C931AC6D19475CB78574A01EB58C55@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <082601cb3a37$d58b9ca0$80a2d5e0$@com> Well Tom...if you're going to let the fact that a couple people on here got nowhere deter you from actually complaining to the webmaster....what is the point of this conversation? To vent? All I'm saying is at least attempt to contact the people who had no problem with accessing the website. You may find that you are sending the same emails repeatedly for no reason. I'm just not understanding the point of this if you're not going to do something.... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tom Ladis Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 10:09 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Thanks for your suggestions. You are right that there are workarounds and some of the tests are presented at random. From what I have heard in this discussion is that others have encountered this issue and gotten pleasant responses that led nowhere. Thanks, Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > OK...this trail has gone on endlessly. Has anyone tried actually calling > or > contacting support? Maybe you should gather a group of people who could > call in with the same complaint. Nitpicking it here in the group is not > going to accomplish anything. Obviously some here have said they are not > having an issue. Try contacting those people to get a step by step idea > of > what they are doing. I've seen at least two people say they are not > having > or have gotten around the problem. Have you tried that at least? Try > that > and then come back with some sort of plan for those who wish to complain > to > Linked In and those who wish will complain. > > I know this is not my group but the same thing is being repeated endlessly > and it doesn't seem that you've attempted to get around the problem or > find > a solution from what others have said. > > My apologies if this has offended anyone. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Ladis > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:40 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Hello all, > > I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to > accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily > complicated > > and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the internet when > blind. If they are going to present barriers then they should have to > present an easy way around the barriers for human operators but still > make > it difficult for automated systems. > > The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these > things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security > becomes more and more of a concern. > > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >>I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>getting >> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >> couple of times. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There is >>> a >>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>> announces >>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>> string a problem either way. >>> >>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>> know >>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know about >>> and >>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home Depot, >>> I >>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read out >>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>> >>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change in >>> this area. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tom Ladis >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>> use >>>> a >>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>> fill >>>> in >>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>> verbal >>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>> accessibility >>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>> my >>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>> account. >>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>> even >>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>> read >>>>> out loud. >>>>> >>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>> developers >>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tom >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other sites >>>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>> response, >>>>>>> such >>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not an >>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>> forms >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> no >>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>> develop >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as audio >>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there for >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> use. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and community >>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is addressed >>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been able >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have added >>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>> com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>> >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: 08/09/10 >>> 02:35:00 >>> >>> >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 > 02:34:00 > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From tom at tomladis.com Thu Aug 12 16:38:22 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:38:22 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> <0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <080701cb3a2c$64154a40$2c3fdec0$@com><71C931AC6D19475CB78574A01EB58C55@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <082601cb3a37$d58b9ca0$80a2d5e0$@com> Message-ID: You are right. I will be more careful what I bring up as a topic when I know what to do. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Well Tom...if you're going to let the fact that a couple people on here > got > nowhere deter you from actually complaining to the webmaster....what is > the > point of this conversation? To vent? > > All I'm saying is at least attempt to contact the people who had no > problem > with accessing the website. You may find that you are sending the same > emails repeatedly for no reason. I'm just not understanding the point of > this if you're not going to do something.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Ladis > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 10:09 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Thanks for your suggestions. You are right that there are workarounds and > some of the tests are presented at random. From what I have heard in this > discussion is that others have encountered this issue and gotten pleasant > responses that led nowhere. > > Thanks, > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "WB" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:41 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> OK...this trail has gone on endlessly. Has anyone tried actually calling >> or >> contacting support? Maybe you should gather a group of people who could >> call in with the same complaint. Nitpicking it here in the group is not >> going to accomplish anything. Obviously some here have said they are not >> having an issue. Try contacting those people to get a step by step idea >> of >> what they are doing. I've seen at least two people say they are not >> having >> or have gotten around the problem. Have you tried that at least? Try >> that >> and then come back with some sort of plan for those who wish to complain >> to >> Linked In and those who wish will complain. >> >> I know this is not my group but the same thing is being repeated >> endlessly >> and it doesn't seem that you've attempted to get around the problem or >> find >> a solution from what others have said. >> >> My apologies if this has offended anyone. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Tom Ladis >> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:40 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >> complicated >> >> and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the internet >> when >> blind. If they are going to present barriers then they should have to >> present an easy way around the barriers for human operators but still >> make >> it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >> becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>>I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>>getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>> is >>>> a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>> announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>> about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>> Depot, >>>> I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>> out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>> in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>> use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>> fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>> my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>>sites >>>>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> > http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in >> sightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in >> sightbb.com >>> >>> >>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 12 19:30:40 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:30:40 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <80D67E643C694D26A6C6576346C9B2DE@spike> I have used sites where I have notified the administrator and it has been resolved. Interestingly, in contacting many sites I found that the site administrators were not aware of the barriers that captchas presented. When they were made aware of it in many cases they decided not to use it. They were using it because they were told that they should as part of their web packages that were purchased by their organizations and nothing was said about any difficulties with it. My point about being a whiner is that we need to effectively pick and choose our battlefields and when we don't take any responsibility ourselves to try to mitigate issues it does not present well. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J. Zufelt" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:32 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Good thing I'm not someone with a multiple disability, say blindness and cognitive or learning. I wouldn't want to seem like a whiner. But seriously, organizations who choose to implement CAPTCHAs need to provide options for individuals who are not able to solve the CAPTCHA with a reasonable degree of ease. In the Drupal community CAPTCHAs are used on the groups pages for submitting posts (http://groups.drupal.org). The community has a policy on CAPTCHAs • We use a form of spam protection called Mollom - you should be aware of their Terms of service. If you are visually impaired please contact the site maintainers and we will change your account so you don't have to interact with Mollom. This is not a perfect solution, the policy is on a page that is not particularly easy to find, and it could be better worded. But, we are moving in the correct direction. The reasoning for using a CAPTCHA is that if a user is subscribed to a group the new messages and comments are sent to their e-mail inbox immediately. This means that any SPAM that gets through to the site is sent out to many users, even if it is later identified and removed from the site. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-12, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than > insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be > helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real > issues and stop whining. > chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >> becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>> getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>> is a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>> announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>> about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>> Depot, I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>> out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>> in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>> use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>> fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>> my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>> totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>> sites >>>>>>> where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 12 19:35:58 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:35:58 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <001701cb3a2e$88993640$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <001701cb3a2e$88993640$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <3A6B7E15BD1349398B2D675CDAD3BEEE@spike> This is why we need to make sure that legislation such as H.R. 3101 and S. 3404 are implemented without being watered down and to make sure that the ADA covers the Internet. Unfortunately, when it comes to web accessibility we are still further ahead than some foreign countries. I recently did a consultation for someone in the U.K. and they are now just beginning to seriously address the issue of web accessibility. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hello Chuck and everyone, > > And this is a real issue. What Web site will be next to go inaccessible > on us? > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:11 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than > insulting > ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be helpless and > incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real issues and stop > whining. > chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >> becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>>I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>>getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>> is >>>> a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>> announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>> about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>> Depot, >>>> I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>> out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>> in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>> use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>> fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>> my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>>totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>>sites >>>>>>>where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied and >>>>>>>pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Thu Aug 12 19:53:38 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:53:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <80D67E643C694D26A6C6576346C9B2DE@spike> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63> <83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13> <000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com> <39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC> <0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC> <050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <80D67E643C694D26A6C6576346C9B2DE@spike> Message-ID: <83103F1E04B04F26BA7BCD8F84E200EC@StevePC> I agree with you, Chuck. The administrator may not know of the difficulty until someone points it out to them. Give them the opportunity to fix the problem and work with the problem. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind I have used sites where I have notified the administrator and it has been resolved. Interestingly, in contacting many sites I found that the site administrators were not aware of the barriers that captchas presented. When they were made aware of it in many cases they decided not to use it. They were using it because they were told that they should as part of their web packages that were purchased by their organizations and nothing was said about any difficulties with it. My point about being a whiner is that we need to effectively pick and choose our battlefields and when we don't take any responsibility ourselves to try to mitigate issues it does not present well. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J. Zufelt" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:32 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Good thing I'm not someone with a multiple disability, say blindness and cognitive or learning. I wouldn't want to seem like a whiner. But seriously, organizations who choose to implement CAPTCHAs need to provide options for individuals who are not able to solve the CAPTCHA with a reasonable degree of ease. In the Drupal community CAPTCHAs are used on the groups pages for submitting posts (http://groups.drupal.org). The community has a policy on CAPTCHAs • We use a form of spam protection called Mollom - you should be aware of their Terms of service. If you are visually impaired please contact the site maintainers and we will change your account so you don't have to interact with Mollom. This is not a perfect solution, the policy is on a page that is not particularly easy to find, and it could be better worded. But, we are moving in the correct direction. The reasoning for using a CAPTCHA is that if a user is subscribed to a group the new messages and comments are sent to their e-mail inbox immediately. This means that any SPAM that gets through to the site is sent out to many users, even if it is later identified and removed from the site. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-12, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than > insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be > helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real > issues and stop whining. > chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >> becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>> getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>> is a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>> announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>> about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>> Depot, I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>> out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>> in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>> use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>> fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>> my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>> totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>> sites >>>>>>> where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3066 - Release Date: 08/12/10 02:34:00 -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3066 - Release Date: 08/12/10 02:34:00 From tom at tomladis.com Fri Aug 13 00:30:52 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:30:52 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <80D67E643C694D26A6C6576346C9B2DE@spike> Message-ID: <5C383836129A4CC9A95514FF9A459697@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Interesting. I wish that you had shared this before talking about "whiners", but thanks for the reminder that I need to be more independent. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind I have used sites where I have notified the administrator and it has been resolved. Interestingly, in contacting many sites I found that the site administrators were not aware of the barriers that captchas presented. When they were made aware of it in many cases they decided not to use it. They were using it because they were told that they should as part of their web packages that were purchased by their organizations and nothing was said about any difficulties with it. My point about being a whiner is that we need to effectively pick and choose our battlefields and when we don't take any responsibility ourselves to try to mitigate issues it does not present well. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J. Zufelt" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:32 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Good thing I'm not someone with a multiple disability, say blindness and cognitive or learning. I wouldn't want to seem like a whiner. But seriously, organizations who choose to implement CAPTCHAs need to provide options for individuals who are not able to solve the CAPTCHA with a reasonable degree of ease. In the Drupal community CAPTCHAs are used on the groups pages for submitting posts (http://groups.drupal.org). The community has a policy on CAPTCHAs • We use a form of spam protection called Mollom - you should be aware of their Terms of service. If you are visually impaired please contact the site maintainers and we will change your account so you don't have to interact with Mollom. This is not a perfect solution, the policy is on a page that is not particularly easy to find, and it could be better worded. But, we are moving in the correct direction. The reasoning for using a CAPTCHA is that if a user is subscribed to a group the new messages and comments are sent to their e-mail inbox immediately. This means that any SPAM that gets through to the site is sent out to many users, even if it is later identified and removed from the site. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-12, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than > insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be > helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real > issues and stop whining. > chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >> becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>> getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>> is a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>> announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>> about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>> Depot, I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>> out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>> in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>> use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>> fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>> my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>> totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>> sites >>>>>>> where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Fri Aug 13 00:36:48 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:36:48 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind In-Reply-To: <5C383836129A4CC9A95514FF9A459697@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <80D67E643C694D26A6C6576346C9B2DE@spike> <5C383836129A4CC9A95514FF9A459697@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Message-ID: <08a301cb3a7f$a06ebaa0$e14c2fe0$@com> Hi Tom. I cannot speak for Chuck....but you don't seem to be paying attention to what people are saying...or at least that's how it appears through your comments which show sarcasm. Way before these comments people made suggestions for how you could get around this issue and suggested you contact the website owners. It does not seem you have done this and as stated earlier, you keep saying the same thing. At some point, the same comments will recycle themselves. My question is...What do you want the group to tell you about this issue you're having? What steps do you want to be made aware of to resolve the issue you're having with the site? What else can we do to assist you? I ask this because obviously some of us are not getting exactly what you're asking since you repeatedly ask the same questions. Hope this doesn't come off as rude, but there seems to be a disconnect somewhere. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tom Ladis Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:31 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Interesting. I wish that you had shared this before talking about "whiners", but thanks for the reminder that I need to be more independent. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind I have used sites where I have notified the administrator and it has been resolved. Interestingly, in contacting many sites I found that the site administrators were not aware of the barriers that captchas presented. When they were made aware of it in many cases they decided not to use it. They were using it because they were told that they should as part of their web packages that were purchased by their organizations and nothing was said about any difficulties with it. My point about being a whiner is that we need to effectively pick and choose our battlefields and when we don't take any responsibility ourselves to try to mitigate issues it does not present well. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J. Zufelt" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:32 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind Good thing I'm not someone with a multiple disability, say blindness and cognitive or learning. I wouldn't want to seem like a whiner. But seriously, organizations who choose to implement CAPTCHAs need to provide options for individuals who are not able to solve the CAPTCHA with a reasonable degree of ease. In the Drupal community CAPTCHAs are used on the groups pages for submitting posts (http://groups.drupal.org). The community has a policy on CAPTCHAs . We use a form of spam protection called Mollom - you should be aware of their Terms of service. If you are visually impaired please contact the site maintainers and we will change your account so you don't have to interact with Mollom. This is not a perfect solution, the policy is on a page that is not particularly easy to find, and it could be better worded. But, we are moving in the correct direction. The reasoning for using a CAPTCHA is that if a user is subscribed to a group the new messages and comments are sent to their e-mail inbox immediately. This means that any SPAM that gets through to the site is sent out to many users, even if it is later identified and removed from the site. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-08-12, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than > insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be > helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real > issues and stop whining. > chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > >> Hello all, >> >> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing to >> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >> >> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >> becomes more and more of a concern. >> >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>> getting >>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it a >>> couple of times. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>> is a >>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>> announces >>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of the >>>> string a problem either way. >>>> >>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>> know >>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>> about >>>> and >>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>> Depot, I >>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>> out >>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>> >>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>> in >>>> this area. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tom Ladis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>> >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>> use >>>>> a >>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>> fill >>>>> in >>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running the >>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>> verbal >>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>> accessibility >>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to complete >>>>>> my >>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get past, >>>>>> even >>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the text >>>>>> read >>>>>> out loud. >>>>>> >>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>> developers >>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it was >>>>>>> totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>> sites >>>>>>> where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with some >>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are other >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind people. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter your >>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used by >>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA image, >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio icon. >>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the normal >>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>> 08/09/10 >>>> 02:35:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >> 02:34:00 >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From tom at tomladis.com Fri Aug 13 02:37:22 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 21:37:22 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind References: <061877EC8336446890AFA6EBF32ABD8A@owner1e06aeb63><83F530E769534AE485DD7002DAF4F66D@Scorpio13><000701cb3518$b2db6100$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><00b801cb352e$78f549e0$6adfdda0$@gmail.com><39F6EE8C40784ED6BA2EE2E7C5CFE2EF@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><000f01cb35c9$937b2190$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7A1DB6CB76F145F884D385190AEA7AE8@TMLDELLLAPTOP1><85F13E4CCD354989A0425145C82A9142@StevePC><0F3995670B1340D7B3EB8152EB728E0D@StevePC><050855B30FFD4BE8880AC16320E9E47C@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <80D67E643C694D26A6C6576346C9B2DE@spike><5C383836129A4CC9A95514FF9A459697@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> <08a301cb3a7f$a06ebaa0$e14c2fe0$@com> Message-ID: I was initially trying to see if anybody had any success as an advocate with this issue. I guess that I have the answer. Thanks for your thoughts. I will quit "whining" about this issue right now. ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:36 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > Hi Tom. > > I cannot speak for Chuck....but you don't seem to be paying attention to > what people are saying...or at least that's how it appears through your > comments which show sarcasm. Way before these comments people made > suggestions for how you could get around this issue and suggested you > contact the website owners. > > It does not seem you have done this and as stated earlier, you keep saying > the same thing. At some point, the same comments will recycle themselves. > > My question is...What do you want the group to tell you about this issue > you're having? What steps do you want to be made aware of to resolve the > issue you're having with the site? What else can we do to assist you? I > ask this because obviously some of us are not getting exactly what you're > asking since you repeatedly ask the same questions. > > Hope this doesn't come off as rude, but there seems to be a disconnect > somewhere. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Ladis > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:31 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > Interesting. I wish that you had shared this before talking about > "whiners", but thanks for the reminder that I need to be more independent. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 2:30 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > I have used sites where I have notified the administrator and it has been > resolved. Interestingly, in contacting many sites I found that the site > administrators were not aware of the barriers that captchas presented. > When > they were made aware of it in many cases they decided not to use it. They > were using it because they were told that they should as part of their web > packages that were purchased by their organizations and nothing was said > about any difficulties with it. My point about being a whiner is that we > need to effectively pick and choose our battlefields and when we don't > take > any responsibility ourselves to try to mitigate issues it does not present > well. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "E.J. Zufelt" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:32 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind > > > Good thing I'm not someone with a multiple disability, say blindness and > cognitive or learning. I wouldn't want to seem like a whiner. > > But seriously, organizations who choose to implement CAPTCHAs need to > provide options for individuals who are not able to solve the CAPTCHA with > a > reasonable degree of ease. > > In the Drupal community CAPTCHAs are used on the groups pages for > submitting > posts (http://groups.drupal.org). The community has a policy on CAPTCHAs > > . We use a form of spam protection called Mollom - you should be aware of > their Terms of service. If you are visually impaired please contact the > site > maintainers and we will change your account so you don't have to interact > with Mollom. > > This is not a perfect solution, the policy is on a page that is not > particularly easy to find, and it could be better worded. But, we are > moving in the correct direction. The reasoning for using a CAPTCHA is > that > if a user is subscribed to a group the new messages and comments are sent > to > their e-mail inbox immediately. This means that any SPAM that gets > through > to the site is sent out to many users, even if it is later identified and > removed from the site. > > HTH, > > Everett Zufelt > http://zufelt.ca > > Follow me on Twitter > http://twitter.com/ezufelt > > View my LinkedIn Profile > http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt > > > > On 2010-08-12, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > >> Its much better to pick and choose worthwhile battles rather than >> insulting ourselves as blind people by making ourselves appear to be >> helpless and incompetent. Its for us as a community to deal with real >> issues and stop whining. >> chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:40 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I do not mean any offense at all, but it seems that people are willing >>> to > >>> accept things like this as ok even though they are unnecessarily >>> complicated and barriers, and they add to the frustrations of using the >>> internet when blind. If they are going to present barriers then they >>> should have to present an easy way around the barriers for human >>> operators but still make it difficult for automated systems. >>> >>> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if we are willing to accept these >>> things then we will be presented with more and more barriers as security >>> becomes more and more of a concern. >>> >>> Tom >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>> >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:46 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The Blind >>> >>> >>>> I just listen to it a couple of times and tap the control key after >>>> getting >>>> the link. I can usually silence window eyes. Maybe need to repeat it >>>> a >>>> couple of times. >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:58 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>> Blind >>>> >>>> >>>>> My problem on LinkedIn is similar to what you have set up not. There >>>>> is a >>>>> jumbled string that can be read by clicking on a link, but JAWS >>>>> announces >>>>> the new window opening at the same time, which makes the reading of >>>>> the >>>>> string a problem either way. >>>>> >>>>> Basically, my point is that this sets up a barrier to those who do not >>>>> know >>>>> how to work around screen readers talking at the same time or know >>>>> about >>>>> and >>>>> using a third party tool to read the string. In the case of Home >>>>> Depot, I >>>>> encountered a screen where there was no link to have the string read >>>>> out >>>>> loud. This is a bigger barrier. >>>>> >>>>> These barriers are going to get worse and become standard operating >>>>> procedure for web developers unless something is done to cause change >>>>> in >>>>> this area. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Tom Ladis >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>>>> >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:26 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>> Blind >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Ok, you guys are talking way over my head. I've been following this >>>>>> discussion closely. My credit union, there online banking services, >>>>>> use >>>>>> a >>>>>> verbal code link. I'm able to click on a link for a verbal code and >>>>>> fill >>>>>> in >>>>>> the box. after several discussions with them, the company running >>>>>> the >>>>>> online banking service was able to create this link which gives you a >>>>>> verbal >>>>>> code. Is this the problem with LinkedIn? >>>>>> >>>>>> Steve >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:54 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>> Blind >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Do the new laws being discussed in Congress address this as an >>>>>>> accessibility >>>>>>> issue? I went to the Home Depot website and was not able to >>>>>>> complete > >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> order after spending 30 minutes or so shopping and creating an >>>>>>> account. >>>>>>> They are also presenting some garbled text that I could not get >>>>>>> past, >>>>>>> even >>>>>>> with a handheld CCTV. They did not even offer a way to have the >>>>>>> text >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> out loud. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I expect that this will become more and more popular among the >>>>>>> developers >>>>>>> and more and more of a problem for blind people. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have visited sites where that form of question was used and it >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> totally accessible for screen reader users. There are also other >>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>> where the captcha code is shown and it can be selected and copied >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> pasted in to the form field to be entered. >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Recently I heard of a company, Gogo In Flight, that solved the >>>>>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>>>> visual captcha problem with logic questions instead of an audio >>>>>>>>> captcha. >>>>>>>>> These were very simple questions that would require a human >>>>>>>>> response, >>>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>>> as: If today is Tuesday, what was yesterday? Or: Of the numbers 3, >>>>>>>>> 9, >>>>>>>>> 5, >>>>>>>>> 14, >>>>>>>>> 7, which is the largest? Or: Of cow, rose, or horse, which is not >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> animal? >>>>>>>>> Of course I guess this approach might not work for people with >>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>> forms >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> intellectual or developmental disability. So it's possible that >>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>> perfect captcha solution. But that one at least addresses the >>>>>>>>> concerns >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> both blind and deaf users, or of deaf-blind ones. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:44 PM >>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Charles and everyone, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And what if this person is both blind and deaf? The folks who >>>>>>>>> develop >>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>> CAPTCHA solving solutions need to consider this population too. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 7:17 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> as long as there are alternatives to solve the captcha such as >>>>>>>>> audio >>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>> or use of other services such as Solona or Web Vizum they are not >>>>>>>>> breaking >>>>>>>>> the law. As blind professionals we need to look toward using >>>>>>>>> alternatives >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> solve these types of problems and the alternatives are out there >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:54 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Derek, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Interesting that they even make it a random test. There are >>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>>> that do this type of thing and it is not fair appropriate for any >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>> to do so. This needs to change, for the sake of all blind >>>>>>>>>> people. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Are they breaking the law by doing this test? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Wilson" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 1:13 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you are wondering why sometimes LinkedIn prompts you with a >>>>>>>>>>> captcha >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> sometimes not, you may want to read on: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> QUOTE >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Security Verification Prompts >>>>>>>>>>> Why am I sometimes prompted for my password or to type in >>>>>>>>>>> characters >>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>> image shown on the security verification screen? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn is committed to protecting the privacy and security of >>>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>>> members' >>>>>>>>>>> information and maintaining the mutual trust we share with our >>>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As part of our proactive efforts to keep our members and >>>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>> real and perceived threats, we vigorously monitor site activity. >>>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>>> points in the LinkedIn site, you may be prompted to re-enter >>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>> password >>>>>>>>>>> or you may be asked to type in distorted letters or numbers >>>>>>>>>>> presented >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> security challenge. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing >>>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>>>> Computers and Humans Apart) is a security method commonly used >>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>> websites. >>>>>>>>>>> This feature helps to distinguish human attempts to access the >>>>>>>>>>> site >>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>> automatic, computer-generated attempts to access the site, a >>>>>>>>>>> technique >>>>>>>>>>> typically used by spammers. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> At various times, you could experience an increase in CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>>> prompts. >>>>>>>>>>> To >>>>>>>>>>> reduce the number of times you see the security challenge during >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> day, >>>>>>>>>>> you might consider the following actions: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Enable cookies on your browser. (See your browser's help >>>>>>>>>>> section.) >>>>>>>>>>> 2. Ensure that you don't sign out each time you use LinkedIn >>>>>>>>>>> during >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> day. We will remember your last login for a period of time which >>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>>> you to bypass the login sequence (including the CAPTCHA prompt). >>>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>> recommend that you sign out at the end of each day. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you have difficulty distinguishing a particular CAPTCHA >>>>>>>>>>> image, >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>> click on the "Try a different image" link. Audio CAPTCHA is also >>>>>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>>>>> by clicking the audio icon found on the "Security Verification" >>>>>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>>>>> Source: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > http://linkedin.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linkedin.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_ >>>>>>>>>>> faqid=3065 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The catch is, at least for me, that I cannot find the audio >>>>>>>>>>> icon. >>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>> means I cannot accesss my account - even with a password. This >>>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>> persist - especially for the totally blind - until it is >>>>>>>>>>> addressed >>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you are on Twitter, I encourage you to pressure @LinkedIn to >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>> act together. See: http://ow.ly/2lKvs & http://ow.ly/2lKxU >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>> Derek >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 12:37 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello Chris and everyone, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Upon reading the posts about this I checked for myself and was >>>>>>>>>>> automatically logged in. Linked-In worked as it always does. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Danielsen" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 5:13 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this is only a problem with new accounts or only >>>>>>>>>>> happens >>>>>>>>>>> sometimes? Someone else on this list raised this issue last week >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> able to log into my own account with no problem. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 11:34 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Can you hit Control to silence JAWS? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ah, the advantages of an external synth! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Ladis" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LinkedIn Has Been Made Inaccessible To The >>>>>>>>>>> Blind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I received an invitation to connect to colleagues from the past >>>>>>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>>>>>> www.LinkedIn.com. I have used LinkedIn in the past and been >>>>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>>> around with only a few problems. It appears that they have >>>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>>> real-time verification to the login process on top of the >>>>>>>>>>>> normal >>>>>>>>>>>> username >>>>>>>>>>>> and password. They do offer the ability to have the image that >>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>> present for real[-time verification, but the text is spoken at >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>>>> time that JAWS announces the popup window. This seems to me to >>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> barrier and was not there the last time that I logged in to my >>>>>>>>>>>> account. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else on here use LinkedIn? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>>>>>>>>> virus >>>>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>>>> database 5345 (20100805) __________ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gm >>>>>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >>>>>>>>> al.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo >>>>>>>>> bal.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>>> signature >>>>>>>>> database 5348 (20100806) __________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3060 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/09/10 >>>>> 02:35:00 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: >>>> 08/11/10 >>>> 02:34:00 >>>> >>> >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 >>> 02:34:00 >>> >>> >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com > From mdgroat4178 at att.net Fri Aug 13 14:20:49 2010 From: mdgroat4178 at att.net (Blind Michael) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 07:20:49 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Subject: Would you be interested in being able to convert a voice note to text? In-Reply-To: References: <74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0C011E0C3E@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov> <9F8E8B36-6340-4A58-B0D9-76EDCF31E289@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <000601cb3af2$ba70ea90$2f52bfb0$@net> Hello list, I have been invited by the CEO of the Santa Clara County Blind Center, located in San Jose, California, to participate in a technology project team. My thought of a project is to create a software program that will convert a voice note to text. This would allow the person to use their own voice note taker. The end result would be similar to Dragon and their special recording device, but without the related cost. If you happen to know of an existing equivalent program, I would be very interested in knowing about it. I do realize that the software program will have to uniquely identify the voice note part of the recording device. Such devices like the Victor Stream Reader are multifunctional. I know that converting EBooks and songs would be a violation of copy right laws. My concept is that since only the voice note would be converted to text, which would only be the work of the person doing the recording, there would not be any copy right infringements. I do realize that there are many other potential applications for such a program, however, this list was my first thought as to the usefulness of such a program. Also my thought is that the legal profession would benefit from such a program, in that, such items as a court brief could be recorded and then converted to text. The text file would then only require editing, instead of one having to type the full brief. There few questions at hand: Is my legal concept correct? I do realize that there are a lot of legal issues that will follow with working with each manufacturer to obtain the needed criteria for the coding that would allow the voice note to be uniquely accessed. As a subscriber of the list, would you be interested in such a software program? If so, there is some information that is needed. I will need to know the make and model of the intended voice note recorder. Your response and any insight that you have would be greatly appreciated. Please respond OFF List, so as not to overload the list. I anxiously look forward you your response. Cheers, Michael Groat From jty727 at gmail.com Sat Aug 14 02:41:44 2010 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 22:41:44 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Law Event Message-ID: Hello to All! Hope alls well with you. Since I'm from Rochester, NY I will have to stay at one of Baltimore's hotels. I was wondering if anyone knew the closest hotel to theJacobus tenBroek Law Simposium event location. I'm asking so I can make arrangements for this wonderful event. I'm very unfamiliar with Baltimore. So, I thought I'd send a message about it. thanks abunch! Justin Young From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Sat Aug 14 14:09:54 2010 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 10:09:54 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Law Event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100814140954.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Hi Justin: The next tenBroek law symposium occurs in April of 2011. I am afraid I don't know a thing about hotels in Baltimore. Ray Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Justin Young To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Date: Friday, Aug 13, 2010 22:42:33 Subject: [bllaw] 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Law Event > > > Hello to All! > > Hope alls well with you. Since I'm from Rochester, NY I will have to > stay at one of Baltimore's hotels. I was wondering if anyone knew the > closest hotel to theJacobus tenBroek Law Simposium event location. > I'm asking so I can make arrangements for this wonderful event. I'm > very unfamiliar with Baltimore. So, I thought I'd send a message > about it. > > thanks abunch! > > Justin Young > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From AZNOR99 at aol.com Sat Aug 14 14:51:15 2010 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 10:51:15 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Law Event Message-ID: <5a7b2.48e7d0c7.39980763@aol.com> Hello Justin, The TenBroek Law Symposium has, in the past, negotiated a conference rate at several local hotels close to the NFB Jernigan Institute where the Symposium has taken place. That information is usually available in the fall prior to the April Symposium. However, if you're eager to make reservations now, I'd advise you to concentrate your hotel search on accommodations in Federal Hill (I don't know of any hotels but there are some bed and breakfasts there), Downtown (about a $8 cab ride to the NFBJI), or the Inner Harbor (about a $5-10 cab ride to the NFBJI). The NFB Jernigan Institute is located in Baltimore's Federal Hill neighborhood, which is a couple miles south of Downtown and the Inner Harbor. The Symposium can also be accessed through public transportation if that's preferable. I live in Baltimore, so feel free to contact me off-list if you'd like to discuss specifics concerning the neighborhoods, hotels, or bus routes. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 8/14/2010 10:14:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com writes: Hi Justin: The next tenBroek law symposium occurs in April of 2011. I am afraid I don't know a thing about hotels in Baltimore. Ray Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Justin Young To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Date: Friday, Aug 13, 2010 22:42:33 Subject: [bllaw] 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Law Event > > > Hello to All! > > Hope alls well with you. Since I'm from Rochester, NY I will have to > stay at one of Baltimore's hotels. I was wondering if anyone knew the > closest hotel to theJacobus tenBroek Law Simposium event location. > I'm asking so I can make arrangements for this wonderful event. I'm > very unfamiliar with Baltimore. So, I thought I'd send a message > about it. > > thanks abunch! > > Justin Young > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From LBlake at nfb.org Mon Aug 16 11:58:44 2010 From: LBlake at nfb.org (Blake, Lou Ann) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 07:58:44 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Law Event In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02F3BDDC@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Hello Justin: For the past two years, we have secured a block of rooms at the Holiday Inn Inner Harbor at a reduced rate for out of town participants of the Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. I am anticipating on doing the same for the 2011 Jacobus symposium. The NFB provides a free shuttle between the hotel and the Jernigan Institute, where the symposium takes place. I will make a post to this list when the block of rooms are available. I look forward to meeting you at the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. Best regards, Lou Ann Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org Promote Access to Science Education for Blind Students. Vote for the NFB Youth Slam in the Pepsi Refresh Project, or text 101913 to Pepsi (73774) -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 10:42 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Law Event Hello to All! Hope alls well with you. Since I'm from Rochester, NY I will have to stay at one of Baltimore's hotels. I was wondering if anyone knew the closest hotel to theJacobus tenBroek Law Simposium event location. I'm asking so I can make arrangements for this wonderful event. I'm very unfamiliar with Baltimore. So, I thought I'd send a message about it. thanks abunch! Justin Young _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.o rg From jorgeapaez at mac.com Thu Aug 19 02:21:32 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:21:32 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] looking for lawyer in areas of incorporating/llc Message-ID: Hello. My name is Jorge. I have launched 2 successful websites and wish to llc my 2 sites under one name. Any lawyer on this list who is in the area of incorporating/llc law, please reply off list at jorgeapaez at mac.com for more information. Thanks, Jorge Thanks. Jorge Paez --- President And CEO: Paez Production Networks Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. From David.B.Andrews at state.mn.us Thu Aug 19 15:51:20 2010 From: David.B.Andrews at state.mn.us (Andrews, David B B (DEED)) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 10:51:20 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Recruiting for D.C. Area Focus Group, Accessibility of High Stakes Testing Message-ID: Hello. Please see the announcement/invitation below to participate in an upcoming focus group. Forwarding and reposting is encouraged. Thank you. Recruiting for D.C. Area Focus Group, Accessibility of High Stakes Testing The Graduate Management Admission Council (GMAC®) is working with WGBH's Carl and Ruth Shapiro National Center for Accessible Media (WGBH-NCAM) to conduct a focus group on the accessibility of the Graduate Management Admission Test (GMAT®) by people who are blind, have low vision or have a mobility impairment, and who use a keyboard vs. a mouse for online navigation. Your participation is requested. Preference is given to individuals who have had experience taking a high stakes graduate admission test. Focus Group participants will be asked questions about test taking experiences including test functionality and navigation, and to provide preferences for potential delivery of accessible graphics and other imagery. An honorarium will be offered, and transportation to the site of the focus group (Reston, VA) arranged and costs reimbursed. Please send an email to access at wgbh.org with "participate" in the subject line. The focus group will be held in the morning of one of these three dates. Please include your preferences of dates by indicating first choice and second choice. Thursday, September 16 Tuesday, September 21 Monday, October 4 Thank you. -- Mary Watkins Director of Communications and Outreach Media Access Group at WGBH One Guest Street Boston, MA 02135 617 300-3700 mary_watkins at wgbh.org access.wgbh.org Follow the Media Access Group on Facebook and Twitter (@AccessWGBH) WGBH Boston informs, inspires, and entertains millions through public broadcasting, the Web, educational multimedia, and access services for people with disabilities. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Aug 20 17:05:22 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 12:05:22 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Job Announcement for OCR HHS Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR) Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:07 AM To: NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List Subject: [nfbwatlk] Job Announcement for OCR HHS Below is a job announcement posted on USA Jobs. I pasted information from the web site. You can go there to get the information about how to apply, and what criteria is needed, etc. Here's the link. HHS-OS-14-2010-0010- DE Good job hunting. This is positively, a good opportunity. /s/ Bennett Prows Job Title: Civil Rights Analyst (Olmstead) Department: Department Of Health And Human Services Agency: Office of the Secretary of Health and Human Services Sub Agency: Department of Health and Human Services Job Announcement Number: HHS-OS-14-2010-0010 SALARY RANGE: $105,211.00 - $136,771.00 /year OPEN PERIOD: Monday, August 16, 2010 to Tuesday, September 07, 2010 SERIES & GRADE: GS-0160-14/14 POSITION INFORMATION: Full Time Permanent PROMOTION POTENTIAL: 14 DUTY LOCATIONS: 1 vacancy - Washington DC Metro Area, DC WHO MAY BE CONSIDERED: This is a competitive vacancy, open to all United States citizens, advertised under the Delegated Examining Authority. This vacancy is concurrently advertised under merit promotion (MP) procedures for status candidates under announcement HHS-OS-14-2010-0011. Candidates who wish to be considered under both procedures MUST apply under both announcements. JOB SUMMARY: Become a part of the Department that touches the lives of every American! At the Department of Health and Human Services you can give back to your community, state, and country by making a difference in the lives of Americans everywhere. Join HHS and help to make our world healthier, safer and better for all Americans. This position is located in the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), Office of the Secretary (OS), Office for Civil Rights (OCR), Office of the Deputy Director for Civil Rights. The Department of Health and Human Services, through the Office for Civil Rights, promotes and ensures that people have equal access to and opportunity to participate in and receive services in all HHS programs without facing unlawful discrimination or impermissible disclosure or use of protected health information. Through prevention and elimination of unlawful discrimination and protecting the privacy of individually identifiable health information, the Office for Civil Rights helps HHS carry out its overall mission of improving the health and well-being of all people affected by its many programs. Position Details: Tenure: Career/Career Conditional Bargaining Unit Position: No Recruitment Bonus: No Relocation Paid: No Probation: A one-year probationary period may be required upon selection/ placement. PHS Commissioned Officers interested in performing the duties of this position as a career/career-conditional employee should also apply online under this announcement in order to receive consideration. Salary range listed includes locality pay. Additional selections may be made across the Department. New to the Government Application Process? We want to be sure you have an opportunity to be considered, so please review the information on the "Qualifications and Evaluations" tab and follow the instructions listed on the "How to Apply" tab. KEY REQUIREMENTS: * You must be a U.S. Citizen by the closing date to qualify. * Travel Required: No * Please carefully read and follow the instructions for HOW TO APPLY. Back to top Duties Additional Duty Location Info: 1 vacancy - Washington DC Metro Area, DC If selected for this position, you will: -- Offer subject matter expertise in the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Rehabilitation Act and the Supreme Court's Olmstead decision for design and implementation of outreach, training, and education strategies to support OCR's compliance, enforcement and policy initiatives. Assist with the development and implementation of these programs, including preparation of materials and writing and delivering presentations, as appropriate. -- Provide expert advice to regional staff in the design and drafting of investigative plans, gathering factual evidence including data requests and on site facility tours, use of experts, settlement and resolution agreements, and letters of investigative findings, as ell as counseling regions on resolving particularly complex cases involving unusual factual circumstances or novel applications of the law in accordance with OCR and/or Departmental policy and priorities. -- Provide expert guidance to HHS Components, Regional Offices and external entities with regard to rights and responsibilities under enforcement of the Americans with Disabilities Act and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. Provide analysis, input and support to senior analysts and leadership in drafting regulations implementing civil rights law or guidance and technical assistance materials explaining Federal law or HHS regulations. -- Independently research legal and policy issues to prepare issue papers and other supporting materials for use in advising senior policy officials throughout HHS on civil rights policies and the application of civil rights laws. Serve as a member of intra- and inter-agency working groups in the development of policies, legislative and regulatory proposals and special OCR initiatives to ensure that persons are not discriminated against on the basis of disability in health and social service programs and prepare materials for the working group on relevant civil rights issues. Back to top Qualifications and Evaluations QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED: Basic Qualifications: You must have one (1) year of specialized experience that has equipped you with the particular knowledge, skills, and abilities to perform successfully the duties of the position and that is typically in or related to the work of the position to be filled. To be creditable, specialized experience must have been equivalent to at least the GS-13 level in the Federal government. Examples of specialized experience include: Demonstrated knowledge of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, and the Supreme Court's Olmstead decision in order to interpret the requirements of the Acts and decision; to develop investigative strategies, evaluate factual information; apply legal theories to resolve complex complaint investigations and to design outreach, training and educational strategies in support of compliance efforts. You must meet citizenship and all other qualification requirements by the closing date of this announcement. All male citizens of the United States born after December 31, 1959, must be registered for the Selective Service to be eligible for Federal employment. For more information about registering with the Selective Service visit: www.sss.gov . A favorable background/security investigation under Homeland Security Presidential Directive (HSPD) -12 and other applicable laws and regulations is a condition of employment for this position. A credit check may be required as part of the investigation. An unfavorable adjudication of a background/security investigation may result in your removal from the federal service. HOW YOU WILL BE EVALUATED: Your resume and responses to the self-assessment job questions are an integral part of the process for determining your basic and specialized qualifications for the position. Therefore, it is important to support your responses to the applicant assessment questions by providing examples of past and present experience when requested. There are several parts of the application process that affect the overall evaluation of your application: 1. Your resume which is part of your USAJOBS profile 2. Your responses to the core questions 3. Your responses to the self-assessment job-specific questions 4. Your supporting documents High self-assessment in the vacancy questions that is not supported by information in your resume, essay responses, and/or supporting documents may eliminate you from best-qualified status or result in a lowered score. Additional details on the application process can be found at the "How to Apply" section of this announcement. Please be sure to allow yourself adequate time to apply for this vacancy. We recommend that you preview the questions for this announcement before you start the application process using the "click here" link below.To preview questions please click here. Back to top Benefits and Other Info BENEFITS: Federal Employees Health Benefits Program More Info Federal Employees' Group Life Insurance More Info Long-Term Care Insurance More Info Almost all new employees are automatically covered by the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS). If you are transferring from another agency and covered by CSRS, you may continue in this program. More Info Annual Leave More Info Sick Leave More Info Information on Federal holidays that fall within your regularly scheduled tour of duty. More Info Alternative work schedule options may be available. If you use public transportation, part of your transportation costs may be subsidized. Our human resources office can provide additional information on how this program is run. OTHER INFORMATION: In an effort to promote efficiency in the hiring process, the resume and corresponding responses of successful candidates may be shared with other Health and Human Services (HHS) organizations serviced by the Rockville Human Resources Center (RHRC) with similar vacancies (i.e., vacancies with the same title, series, grade and promotional potential as the position advertised). Applicants are strongly encouraged to apply directly to the vacancy of interest and not rely on this possibility as a means to securing employment. If you do not want your application shared with other HHS organizations, you must notify the point of contact listed on this vacancy announcement and your record will be noted accordingly. Selections made under this announcement will be processed as new appointments to the civil service. Current civil service employees would, therefore, be given a new appointment to the civil service. E-Verify: If you are selected for this position, the documentation that you present for purposes of completing the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Form I-9 will be verified through the DHS "E-Verify" system. Federal law requires DHHS to use the E-Verify system to verify the employment eligibility of all new hires, and obligates the new hire to take affirmative steps to resolve any discrepancies identified by the system as a condition of continued employment. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services is an E-Verify Participant . Equal Opportunity Employment. Equality is held as one of the most important values here at HHS. Selection for this - and any other - position will be based solely on merit. HHS does not discriminate on the premises of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, politics, marital status, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, age or membership or non- membership in an employee organization. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 2806 bytes Desc: image001.gif URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.gif Type: image/gif Size: 106 bytes Desc: image002.gif URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ nfbwatlk mailing list nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbwatlk_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbwatlk: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbwatlk_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Sat Aug 21 18:32:14 2010 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 14:32:14 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Job Announcement for OCR HHS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0BDC2B6C3AD343CBA64CEFFB524EF38D@14bd0130080a469> Bennett, This doesn't look like a link. Do you paste it into the key word search? Thanks CB -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:05 PM To: jobs at nfbnet.org; blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Job Announcement for OCR HHS -----Original Message----- From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR) Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:07 AM To: NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List Subject: [nfbwatlk] Job Announcement for OCR HHS Below is a job announcement posted on USA Jobs. I pasted information from the web site. You can go there to get the information about how to apply, and what criteria is needed, etc. Here's the link. HHS-OS-14-2010-0010- DE Good job hunting. This is positively, a good opportunity. /s/ Bennett Prows Job Title: Civil Rights Analyst (Olmstead) Department: Department Of Health And Human Services Agency: Office of the Secretary of Health and Human Services Sub Agency: Department of Health and Human Services Job Announcement Number: HHS-OS-14-2010-0010 SALARY RANGE: $105,211.00 - $136,771.00 /year OPEN PERIOD: Monday, August 16, 2010 to Tuesday, September 07, 2010 SERIES & GRADE: GS-0160-14/14 POSITION INFORMATION: Full Time Permanent PROMOTION POTENTIAL: 14 DUTY LOCATIONS: 1 vacancy - Washington DC Metro Area, DC WHO MAY BE CONSIDERED: This is a competitive vacancy, open to all United States citizens, advertised under the Delegated Examining Authority. This vacancy is concurrently advertised under merit promotion (MP) procedures for status candidates under announcement HHS-OS-14-2010-0011. Candidates who wish to be considered under both procedures MUST apply under both announcements. JOB SUMMARY: Become a part of the Department that touches the lives of every American! At the Department of Health and Human Services you can give back to your community, state, and country by making a difference in the lives of Americans everywhere. Join HHS and help to make our world healthier, safer and better for all Americans. This position is located in the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), Office of the Secretary (OS), Office for Civil Rights (OCR), Office of the Deputy Director for Civil Rights. The Department of Health and Human Services, through the Office for Civil Rights, promotes and ensures that people have equal access to and opportunity to participate in and receive services in all HHS programs without facing unlawful discrimination or impermissible disclosure or use of protected health information. Through prevention and elimination of unlawful discrimination and protecting the privacy of individually identifiable health information, the Office for Civil Rights helps HHS carry out its overall mission of improving the health and well-being of all people affected by its many programs. Position Details: Tenure: Career/Career Conditional Bargaining Unit Position: No Recruitment Bonus: No Relocation Paid: No Probation: A one-year probationary period may be required upon selection/ placement. PHS Commissioned Officers interested in performing the duties of this position as a career/career-conditional employee should also apply online under this announcement in order to receive consideration. Salary range listed includes locality pay. Additional selections may be made across the Department. New to the Government Application Process? We want to be sure you have an opportunity to be considered, so please review the information on the "Qualifications and Evaluations" tab and follow the instructions listed on the "How to Apply" tab. KEY REQUIREMENTS: * You must be a U.S. Citizen by the closing date to qualify. * Travel Required: No * Please carefully read and follow the instructions for HOW TO APPLY. Back to top Duties Additional Duty Location Info: 1 vacancy - Washington DC Metro Area, DC If selected for this position, you will: -- Offer subject matter expertise in the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Rehabilitation Act and the Supreme Court's Olmstead decision for design and implementation of outreach, training, and education strategies to support OCR's compliance, enforcement and policy initiatives. Assist with the development and implementation of these programs, including preparation of materials and writing and delivering presentations, as appropriate. -- Provide expert advice to regional staff in the design and drafting of investigative plans, gathering factual evidence including data requests and on site facility tours, use of experts, settlement and resolution agreements, and letters of investigative findings, as ell as counseling regions on resolving particularly complex cases involving unusual factual circumstances or novel applications of the law in accordance with OCR and/or Departmental policy and priorities. -- Provide expert guidance to HHS Components, Regional Offices and external entities with regard to rights and responsibilities under enforcement of the Americans with Disabilities Act and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. Provide analysis, input and support to senior analysts and leadership in drafting regulations implementing civil rights law or guidance and technical assistance materials explaining Federal law or HHS regulations. -- Independently research legal and policy issues to prepare issue papers and other supporting materials for use in advising senior policy officials throughout HHS on civil rights policies and the application of civil rights laws. Serve as a member of intra- and inter-agency working groups in the development of policies, legislative and regulatory proposals and special OCR initiatives to ensure that persons are not discriminated against on the basis of disability in health and social service programs and prepare materials for the working group on relevant civil rights issues. Back to top Qualifications and Evaluations QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED: Basic Qualifications: You must have one (1) year of specialized experience that has equipped you with the particular knowledge, skills, and abilities to perform successfully the duties of the position and that is typically in or related to the work of the position to be filled. To be creditable, specialized experience must have been equivalent to at least the GS-13 level in the Federal government. Examples of specialized experience include: Demonstrated knowledge of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, and the Supreme Court's Olmstead decision in order to interpret the requirements of the Acts and decision; to develop investigative strategies, evaluate factual information; apply legal theories to resolve complex complaint investigations and to design outreach, training and educational strategies in support of compliance efforts. You must meet citizenship and all other qualification requirements by the closing date of this announcement. All male citizens of the United States born after December 31, 1959, must be registered for the Selective Service to be eligible for Federal employment. For more information about registering with the Selective Service visit: www.sss.gov . A favorable background/security investigation under Homeland Security Presidential Directive (HSPD) -12 and other applicable laws and regulations is a condition of employment for this position. A credit check may be required as part of the investigation. An unfavorable adjudication of a background/security investigation may result in your removal from the federal service. HOW YOU WILL BE EVALUATED: Your resume and responses to the self-assessment job questions are an integral part of the process for determining your basic and specialized qualifications for the position. Therefore, it is important to support your responses to the applicant assessment questions by providing examples of past and present experience when requested. There are several parts of the application process that affect the overall evaluation of your application: 1. Your resume which is part of your USAJOBS profile 2. Your responses to the core questions 3. Your responses to the self-assessment job-specific questions 4. Your supporting documents High self-assessment in the vacancy questions that is not supported by information in your resume, essay responses, and/or supporting documents may eliminate you from best-qualified status or result in a lowered score. Additional details on the application process can be found at the "How to Apply" section of this announcement. Please be sure to allow yourself adequate time to apply for this vacancy. We recommend that you preview the questions for this announcement before you start the application process using the "click here" link below.To preview questions please click here. Back to top Benefits and Other Info BENEFITS: Federal Employees Health Benefits Program More Info Federal Employees' Group Life Insurance More Info Long-Term Care Insurance More Info Almost all new employees are automatically covered by the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS). If you are transferring from another agency and covered by CSRS, you may continue in this program. More Info Annual Leave More Info Sick Leave More Info Information on Federal holidays that fall within your regularly scheduled tour of duty. More Info Alternative work schedule options may be available. If you use public transportation, part of your transportation costs may be subsidized. Our human resources office can provide additional information on how this program is run. OTHER INFORMATION: In an effort to promote efficiency in the hiring process, the resume and corresponding responses of successful candidates may be shared with other Health and Human Services (HHS) organizations serviced by the Rockville Human Resources Center (RHRC) with similar vacancies (i.e., vacancies with the same title, series, grade and promotional potential as the position advertised). Applicants are strongly encouraged to apply directly to the vacancy of interest and not rely on this possibility as a means to securing employment. If you do not want your application shared with other HHS organizations, you must notify the point of contact listed on this vacancy announcement and your record will be noted accordingly. Selections made under this announcement will be processed as new appointments to the civil service. Current civil service employees would, therefore, be given a new appointment to the civil service. E-Verify: If you are selected for this position, the documentation that you present for purposes of completing the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Form I-9 will be verified through the DHS "E-Verify" system. Federal law requires DHHS to use the E-Verify system to verify the employment eligibility of all new hires, and obligates the new hire to take affirmative steps to resolve any discrepancies identified by the system as a condition of continued employment. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services is an E-Verify Participant . Equal Opportunity Employment. Equality is held as one of the most important values here at HHS. Selection for this - and any other - position will be based solely on merit. HHS does not discriminate on the premises of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, politics, marital status, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, age or membership or non- membership in an employee organization. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3081 - Release Date: 08/20/10 06:35:00 From dricken at gmail.com Mon Aug 23 13:55:09 2010 From: dricken at gmail.com (Kendrick Kennedy) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 08:55:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing Message-ID: List Mates, I need to know if there is any law or statutes regarding a blind student having to purchase a book new in order for the publisher to release the book to the University the student is attending. I purchased the book used from amazon. West Publishing states they will not release the file of the book until the book is purchased new. -- Thanks, 2K Kendrick R. Kennedy, BSBA Juris Doctor Candidate, 2011 The University of Mississippi, School of Law From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Aug 24 18:40:52 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 13:40:52 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: [DRBA] Disability Rights Fellowship at Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP Message-ID: From: CMPDL's Disability Discussion Docket (3D) [mailto:CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG] On Behalf Of Phelan, William Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 5:38 AM To: CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG Subject: FW: [DRBA] Disability Rights Fellowship at Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP Employment opportunity for recent law school graduates or judicial clerks William J. Phelan, IV, Esq. Special Projects and Technology Coordinator Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law American Bar Association phelanw at staff.abanet.org www.abanet.org/disability ________________________________ From: Disability Rights Bar Association [mailto:DRBA at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU] On Behalf Of Greg Care Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 5:29 PM To: DRBA at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU Subject: [DRBA] Disability Rights Fellowship at Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP Greetings everyone: In September 2009, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP welcomed its first Disability Rights Fellow. We are now accepting applications for our third annual Disability Rights Fellowship to begin in September 2011. The Fellowship offers a recent law school graduate or judicial clerk with a disability the opportunity to participate for a year in all phases of disability rights litigation at our firm in Baltimore, Maryland. Brown, Goldstein & Levy is a 14-lawyer law firm devoted principally to litigation. The firm has developed a national reputation for its high-profile, high-impact disability rights cases. The one-year fellowship will begin in September 2011. The application deadline is November 15, 2010. Please visit our website for additional details about the fellowship and the firm and to download an application: www.browngold.com. Please feel free to pass this information along to individuals who you believe would be interested in a great opportunity to both gain experience and put their knowledge and drive to good use. Thanks, Greg Gregory P. Care, Esquire Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 E. Baltimore Street Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 Phone: 410-962-1030 ext. 1316 Fax: 410-385-0869 gpc at browngold.com www.browngold.com Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1984 - 2009 Please consider the environment before printing this email Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the Addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! REMINDER: The DRBA listserv is intended to facilitate open discussion and sharing of ideas. Members need to feel confident that their discussions will not be distributed beyond the group unnecessarily. PLEASE CONSULT WITH THE SENDER(S) BEFORE FORWARDING ANY LISTSERV DISCUSSIONS BEYOND THE DRBA GROUP. --------- Going to respond to this message? Be sure to hit "Reply All" when doing so. [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/3Dlogo.jpg] Disability Discussion Docket (3D) ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law http://www.abanet.org/disability --------- Material distributed over 3D is for educational and informational purposes only. The contents of any e-mail, including any statements that may be construed as legal advice or referral, are solely the responsibility of the e-mail?s author. In no event shall any contents be the responsibility of and do not necessarily reflect the views of the American Bar Association, its officers, employees, agents or the Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law. --------- To leave this list at any time, please send a message to listserv at mail.abanet.org. In the body of the message type "sign off cmpdl-3d." If you have any questions about 3D or the CMPDL in general, please contact William Phelan at phelanw at staff.abanet.org. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: BGL 2011 Fellowship Brochure.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 363585 bytes Desc: BGL 2011 Fellowship Brochure.pdf URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: BGL 2011 Fellowship Application.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 208930 bytes Desc: BGL 2011 Fellowship Application.pdf URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2011 BGL Fellowship Application.doc Type: application/msword Size: 53248 bytes Desc: 2011 BGL Fellowship Application.doc URL: From kc2992a at student.american.edu Wed Aug 25 01:49:49 2010 From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 21:49:49 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Kendrick, I am having the same problem (you're not alone). It does seem implicitly discriminatory. I don't know any more than you do right now but I will let you know if I hear anything. Best, Kate Carroll On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Kendrick Kennedy wrote: > List Mates, > > I need to know if there is any law or statutes regarding a blind > student having to purchase a book new in order for the publisher to > release the book to the University the student is attending. > > I purchased the book used from amazon. West Publishing states they > will not release the file of the book until the book is purchased new. > > > > -- > Thanks, 2K > > Kendrick R. Kennedy, BSBA > > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2011 > The University of Mississippi, > School of Law > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL BlueLaw International LLP 703-647-7508 Cell: 631-521-3018 From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Wed Aug 25 01:57:00 2010 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 21:57:00 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Cellular Voice Software In-Reply-To: <31D9C92E49034D2DB52C431F520EC527@14bd0130080a469> References: <31D9C92E49034D2DB52C431F520EC527@14bd0130080a469> Message-ID: <20100825015700.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Could you contact me off list? I have Verizon Wireless and my current phone is about to go. I want to get the most accessible one they carry. Thanks. Ray Wayne, New York ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Date: Tuesday, Jun 1, 2010 18:16:26 Subject: [bllaw] Cellular Voice Software > > > All: > > I am informed today that my initial negotiations with Verizon Wireless were > successful to the extent that I obtained management approval for the HTC > Ozone model without the data plan. My goal is to eliminate the $30/month > added charge to Verizon Wireless customers who need adaptive voice software > to access normal features on their cell phones. Currently, the Ozone is > the only model of a cell phone available from Verizon that uses "Talks" > software. Since the Ozone is actually a PDA with Internet, E-mail and other > data features, there is an additional charge each month for the service. > This Denys access to cell phone features including contacts and menus > available to normally sighted customers at no extra charge. This means that > bl/visually impaired customers will have an option for equal access > without added charges. The next step is to complete an order for the Ozone > cell phone including the option of eliminating all data features. As I > write, this attempt is in process. It is complicated by the limits of > current Verizon software that does not permit data features to be "turned > off" on the Ozone PDA. I have a voice mail from a Verizon Wireless > representative confirming management approval, and another representative > attempting to complete an order with the Ozone by arranging for an over > ride. If all else fails, I will demand early termination of my Verizon > Wireless contract and buy an I phone which I am now informed is completely > accessible with voice access for all features and is also reasonably priced > �� a definite selling point! > > OK. I will send an update as soon as I have one. Wish me well, and stay > tuned! > > > > Cathryn (& Abby) > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From joramsey at cox.net Wed Aug 25 04:11:08 2010 From: joramsey at cox.net (John Ramsey) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 00:11:08 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I do not know of the legality of this practice but it has been going on for at least the lat ten years. Take care, John John A. Ramsey Jr., P.A. P.O. Box 6063 Gainesville, FL 32627 Phone: (352) 505-6642 Fax: (352) 240-6453 This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) 505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our control. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Katy Carroll Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 9:50 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing Dear Kendrick, I am having the same problem (you're not alone). It does seem implicitly discriminatory. I don't know any more than you do right now but I will let you know if I hear anything. Best, Kate Carroll On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Kendrick Kennedy wrote: > List Mates, > > I need to know if there is any law or statutes regarding a blind > student having to purchase a book new in order for the publisher to > release the book to the University the student is attending. > > I purchased the book used from amazon. West Publishing states they > will not release the file of the book until the book is purchased new. > > > > -- > Thanks, 2K > > Kendrick R. Kennedy, BSBA > > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2011 > The University of Mississippi, > School of Law > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40st > udent.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL BlueLaw International LLP 703-647-7508 Cell: 631-521-3018 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 13:44:40 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:44:40 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Cellular Voice Software In-Reply-To: <20100825015700.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> References: <31D9C92E49034D2DB52C431F520EC527@14bd0130080a469> <20100825015700.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: <23674DE4764445AEAAA30B236B66091D@Rufus> Verizon must have cranked up their data plan requirements. I had a MotoQ without a data plan for a couple years with no problems from the sales people, but do remember the Samsung model as another option if you want to go with accessible phones. I found the HTC Ozone keyboard rather cramped, but I do have monkey fingers. Also, the Android phones are still slow in developing accessibility but are nothing to sneeze at. I've been keeping up with their evolution and find it promising. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ray wayne Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 9:57 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Cellular Voice Software Could you contact me off list? I have Verizon Wireless and my current phone is about to go. I want to get the most accessible one they carry. Thanks. Ray Wayne, New York ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Date: Tuesday, Jun 1, 2010 18:16:26 Subject: [bllaw] Cellular Voice Software > > > All: > > I am informed today that my initial negotiations with Verizon Wireless were > successful to the extent that I obtained management approval for the HTC > Ozone model without the data plan. My goal is to eliminate the $30/month > added charge to Verizon Wireless customers who need adaptive voice software > to access normal features on their cell phones. Currently, the Ozone is > the only model of a cell phone available from Verizon that uses "Talks" > software. Since the Ozone is actually a PDA with Internet, E-mail and other > data features, there is an additional charge each month for the service. > This Denys access to cell phone features including contacts and menus > available to normally sighted customers at no extra charge. This means that > bl/visually impaired customers will have an option for equal access > without added charges. The next step is to complete an order for the Ozone > cell phone including the option of eliminating all data features. As I > write, this attempt is in process. It is complicated by the limits of > current Verizon software that does not permit data features to be "turned > off" on the Ozone PDA. I have a voice mail from a Verizon Wireless > representative confirming management approval, and another representative > attempting to complete an order with the Ozone by arranging for an over > ride. If all else fails, I will demand early termination of my Verizon > Wireless contract and buy an I phone which I am now informed is completely > accessible with voice access for all features and is also reasonably priced >  a definite selling point! > > OK. I will send an update as soon as I have one. Wish me well, and stay > tuned! > > > > Cathryn (& Abby) > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne 1%40nyc.rr.com From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Wed Aug 25 15:04:27 2010 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:04:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F6061AEB97@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> I may be getting soft, but West's position seems fair to me. Buying a new book comes with the option of getting an accessible electronic copy from West. West receives nothing from the purchase of a used copy. When you buy a used book, you get the book, so why would the purchaser think they are entitled to get all the benefits of a new book they did not buy? Sincerely, Tim Ford -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Katy Carroll Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 6:50 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing Dear Kendrick, I am having the same problem (you're not alone). It does seem implicitly discriminatory. I don't know any more than you do right now but I will let you know if I hear anything. Best, Kate Carroll On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Kendrick Kennedy wrote: > List Mates, > > I need to know if there is any law or statutes regarding a blind > student having to purchase a book new in order for the publisher to > release the book to the University the student is attending. > > I purchased the book used from amazon. West Publishing states they > will not release the file of the book until the book is purchased new. > > > > -- > Thanks, 2K > > Kendrick R. Kennedy, BSBA > > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2011 > The University of Mississippi, > School of Law > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40st > udent.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL BlueLaw International LLP 703-647-7508 Cell: 631-521-3018 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 15:51:30 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 11:51:30 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Colerado law vers Florida law Message-ID: I have a question. Say if someone living in Florida is adjudicated to be mentally incapacitated, and this person moves to Colorado for training Would Colorado honor the Florida order? From billreif at ameritech.net Wed Aug 25 16:05:27 2010 From: billreif at ameritech.net (Bill Reif) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 11:05:27 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F6061AEB97@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> References: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F6061AEB97@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Message-ID: <4C753F47.7050501@ameritech.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Wed Aug 25 18:56:40 2010 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 14:56:40 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Cellular Voice Software In-Reply-To: <23674DE4764445AEAAA30B236B66091D@Rufus> References: <31D9C92E49034D2DB52C431F520EC527@14bd0130080a469> <20100825015700.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> <23674DE4764445AEAAA30B236B66091D@Rufus> Message-ID: <0FB5CB8F1A5A46D2B4B1E463712DE4E2@14bd0130080a469> Ray- I don't have your contact information which is necessary if you want me to contact you off list. If I misunderstood, my apologies. CB -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:45 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Cellular Voice Software Verizon must have cranked up their data plan requirements. I had a MotoQ without a data plan for a couple years with no problems from the sales people, but do remember the Samsung model as another option if you want to go with accessible phones. I found the HTC Ozone keyboard rather cramped, but I do have monkey fingers. Also, the Android phones are still slow in developing accessibility but are nothing to sneeze at. I've been keeping up with their evolution and find it promising. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ray wayne Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 9:57 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Cellular Voice Software Could you contact me off list? I have Verizon Wireless and my current phone is about to go. I want to get the most accessible one they carry. Thanks. Ray Wayne, New York ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Date: Tuesday, Jun 1, 2010 18:16:26 Subject: [bllaw] Cellular Voice Software > > > All: > > I am informed today that my initial negotiations with Verizon Wireless were > successful to the extent that I obtained management approval for the HTC > Ozone model without the data plan. My goal is to eliminate the $30/month > added charge to Verizon Wireless customers who need adaptive voice software > to access normal features on their cell phones. Currently, the Ozone is > the only model of a cell phone available from Verizon that uses "Talks" > software. Since the Ozone is actually a PDA with Internet, E-mail and other > data features, there is an additional charge each month for the service. > This Denys access to cell phone features including contacts and menus > available to normally sighted customers at no extra charge. This means that > bl/visually impaired customers will have an option for equal access > without added charges. The next step is to complete an order for the Ozone > cell phone including the option of eliminating all data features. As I > write, this attempt is in process. It is complicated by the limits of > current Verizon software that does not permit data features to be "turned > off" on the Ozone PDA. I have a voice mail from a Verizon Wireless > representative confirming management approval, and another representative > attempting to complete an order with the Ozone by arranging for an over > ride. If all else fails, I will demand early termination of my Verizon > Wireless contract and buy an I phone which I am now informed is completely > accessible with voice access for all features and is also reasonably priced >  a definite selling point! > > OK. I will send an update as soon as I have one. Wish me well, and stay > tuned! > > > > Cathryn (& Abby) > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne 1%40nyc.rr.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3091 - Release Date: 08/25/10 06:34:00 From b75205 at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 20:00:54 2010 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:00:54 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing In-Reply-To: <4C753F47.7050501@ameritech.net> References: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F6061AEB97@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> <4C753F47.7050501@ameritech.net> Message-ID: What? the costs of making a book accessible are excessive. That is the problem here. Where do you get the idea that it is easy? Ah you hear things like you can make DAISY books in Microsoft Word well pal until you actually do it, you do not realize how much content goes missing. All of this free software that is designed for accessibility misses the mark. Just look at what we have now. Are you happy with accessibility now. Are we all done, don't need to do any more work on this, everything is accessible now. If it were easy everyone would do it. The problem here is that there are half a dozen different formats for electronic books, not to mention all of the free services that create books and each one of them, I repeat each one of them has to be laid out individually and that means the editors are editing editions over and over again. Until this gets standardized onto one format then publishers can challenge these laws telling them they have to do it for free. West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to them! James From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 21:09:41 2010 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:09:41 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing In-Reply-To: References: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F6061AEB97@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov><4C753F47.7050501@ameritech.net> Message-ID: James said, West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to them! Marc says, Is it up to them if they don't want to sell their books to black people? If you decide to sell your goods to the public, their are constraints placed on you. Someone may own a restaurant, but ownership does not mean that she has no obligation to make the restaurant wheelchair accessible. I think it's a legitimate argument to say that publishers who sell their books to the public have obligations to take reasonable steps to make their products accessible to people with print disabilities. If taking these steps constitutes an undo hardship, which you seem to imply, then that's another question, but insisting on reasonable accommodations is not the same as seizing property. Regards, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing > What? the costs of making a book accessible are excessive. That is the > problem here. Where do you get the idea that it is easy? Ah you hear > things > like you can make DAISY books in Microsoft Word well pal until you > actually > do it, you do not realize how much content goes missing. All of this free > software that is designed for accessibility misses the mark. Just look at > what we have now. Are you happy with accessibility now. Are we all done, > don't need to do any more work on this, everything is accessible now. > > If it were easy everyone would do it. The problem here is that there are > half a dozen different formats for electronic books, not to mention all of > the free services that create books and each one of them, I repeat each > one > of them has to be laid out individually and that means the editors are > editing editions over and over again. Until this gets standardized onto > one > format then publishers can challenge these laws telling them they have to > do > it for free. > > West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's > property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to them! > > James > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From tlfields2 at charter.net Sun Aug 29 05:04:10 2010 From: tlfields2 at charter.net (Tracey Fields) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 00:04:10 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind paralegals. Message-ID: <1E42BCF5105F47ABBF9C9FC7440042ED@OwnerPC> Hi all, I am new to the list. I am looking to change careers and go into the paralegal field and was hoping to get info from any blind paralegals that may be on this list as to their success in finding work in this field and the difficulties they have run up against, if there are any. Any advice or shared experiences would be greatly appreciated. Tracey From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sun Aug 29 18:40:11 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:40:11 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] lawyers in intellectual property Message-ID: Hello all: I am thinking of studying intellectual proprerty law as my law specialization choice in a few years. Any blind lawyers in this list who study the field? What problems did you come up against? What advice would you give someone just starting out in the field? Any law univercities that are well known for accessibility? Thanks. Jorge From booboobuttken at hotmail.com Sun Aug 29 20:55:56 2010 From: booboobuttken at hotmail.com (A S) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 20:55:56 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] blindlaw Digest, Vol 75, Issue 25 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Tracey - I am legally blind and went back to school to become a paralegal. I received both my AS and BS degree, have tons of office experience prior to losing my sight, and have NEVER been able to get work in the legal feild, not even starting as a receptionist. After several years of trying, I finally gave up. Social Security wouldn't even consider my application under a schedule A appointment, even though I made the grade requirements. I know there are blind paralegals out there, but iI don't know how many are employed as such, especially outside of private work. I got plenty of calls and interviews based on my resume, but never a call back once they realized I had a visual impairment. Good luck! I hope you have better success if you choose to pursue this route. Annette > From: blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > Subject: blindlaw Digest, Vol 75, Issue 25 > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 12:00:06 -0500 > > Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Blind paralegals. (Tracey Fields) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 00:04:10 -0500 > From: "Tracey Fields" > To: > Subject: [blindlaw] Blind paralegals. > Message-ID: <1E42BCF5105F47ABBF9C9FC7440042ED at OwnerPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Hi all, > > I am new to the list. I am looking to change careers and go into the paralegal field and was hoping to get info from any blind paralegals that may be on this list as to their success in finding work in this field and the difficulties they have run up against, if there are any. > > Any advice or shared experiences would be greatly appreciated. > > Tracey > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 75, Issue 25 > **************************************** From tlfields2 at charter.net Sun Aug 29 21:11:06 2010 From: tlfields2 at charter.net (Tracey Fields) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:11:06 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] blindlaw Digest, Vol 75, Issue 25 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Annette. Sorry things have not worked out for you. -------------------------------------------------- From: "A S" Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 3:55 PM To: Subject: Re: [blindlaw] blindlaw Digest, Vol 75, Issue 25 > > Hi Tracey - > I am legally blind and went back to school to become a paralegal. I > received both my AS and BS degree, have tons of office experience prior to > losing my sight, and have NEVER been able to get work in the legal feild, > not even starting as a receptionist. After several years of trying, I > finally gave up. Social Security wouldn't even consider my application > under a schedule A appointment, even though I made the grade requirements. > I know there are blind paralegals out there, but iI don't know how many > are employed as such, especially outside of private work. I got plenty of > calls and interviews based on my resume, but never a call back once they > realized I had a visual impairment. Good luck! I hope you have better > success if you choose to pursue this route. > Annette > >> From: blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org >> Subject: blindlaw Digest, Vol 75, Issue 25 >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 12:00:06 -0500 >> >> Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Blind paralegals. (Tracey Fields) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 00:04:10 -0500 >> From: "Tracey Fields" >> To: >> Subject: [blindlaw] Blind paralegals. >> Message-ID: <1E42BCF5105F47ABBF9C9FC7440042ED at OwnerPC> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am new to the list. I am looking to change careers and go into the >> paralegal field and was hoping to get info from any blind paralegals that >> may be on this list as to their success in finding work in this field and >> the difficulties they have run up against, if there are any. >> >> Any advice or shared experiences would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Tracey >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> >> End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 75, Issue 25 >> **************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tlfields2%40charter.net From fwlopez at comcast.net Mon Aug 30 00:30:12 2010 From: fwlopez at comcast.net (Fred Wright Lopez) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 17:30:12 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] lawyers in intellectual property In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F6BB300-96BA-492F-8F07-6B45DEF21D43@comcast.net> Jorge: Berkley Law (Boalt Hall) Law School, University of California Berkeley is perhaps the nations best known intellectual property law school. It is constantly ranked as the number one law school in this area. However there are many other excellent law schools that offer intellectual law courses, seminars and clinical placements, such as Stanford Law and UCLA Law schools. I graduated from Boalt Hall many years back but largely practiced in the area of Federal criminal law. Although admissions is very competitive UC Berkley has strong reputation for assisting students with disabilities. Now retired, I use the law library at Boalt Hall frequently. Recently, I had an issue with low vision equipment (CCTV) at the law library, the school aced quickly to acquire additional equipment and make sure that is was readily accessible. Good luck and contact me if I can be of further assistance. Fred W. Lopez Boalt Hall Class 1979 On Aug 29, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hello all: > I am thinking of studying intellectual proprerty law as my law specialization choice in a few years. > Any blind lawyers in this list who study the field? > What problems did you come up against? > What advice would you give someone just starting out in the field? > > Any law univercities that are well known for accessibility? > > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net From lmendez at twcny.rr.com Mon Aug 30 01:33:33 2010 From: lmendez at twcny.rr.com (L A Mendez) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 21:33:33 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Four Secrets to Law School Success Message-ID: <000a01cb47e3$5c8ace20$15a06a60$@rr.com> I thought that the following Article by Professor Michael C. Dorf would be of interested to list members starting or thinking about law school. http://images.findlaw.com/writ/newlogo.gif http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20100823.html Michael C. Dorf Four Secrets to Law School Success By MICHAEL C. DORF Monday, August 23, 2010 By MICHAEL C. DORF With a job market that remains, at best, uncertain awaiting them at the end of their three years, new and returning law students are understandably anxious about what they can do to make the most out of their legal education. In the past, I have offered advice about the first-year curriculum and how to think like a lawyer. In this column, I share four lessons that I have learned in nearly two decades of law teaching. The Most Important Skill You Can Acquire: Distinguishing Hard From Easy Questions Many laypeople labor under a misconception about the law and the work that lawyers do: The law, they imagine, consists of something like a very long list of rules, compiled in multiple volumes labeled "contract law," "property law," "criminal law," and so forth. The lawyer's job, in this view, is simply to look up the answer to the question of what the law requires in any given circumstance. In fact, that picture is partly accurate. Books of statutes, regulations, and case reports really do contain a large number of rules. Although many of those rules are quite clear, identifying them can be difficult for the layperson because of their sheer quantity. For example, an entrepreneur opening a new restaurant could, in principle, locate all of the federal, state, and local rules with which she must comply by searching on the Internet, but in doing so, she is likely to miss something important. Consulting with an experienced attorney will ensure that she avoids inadvertently breaking the law. Yet the picture of the lawyer as human search engine is quite incomplete. The most valuable and challenging work that lawyers do comes after they identify the relevant statutes, regulations, and cases. That work consists in analyzing the nature and scope of legal obligations when the law is unclear--for the purpose of either advising a client or defending the client's position in court. Most of what happens in law school centers around preparation for this second kind of lawyer's work. Instructors ask probing questions of students to develop their skills at categorization and argumentation. When different sources of law point in different directions, lawyers must know how to assess the likelihood that a court will find in favor of one or another resolution. They must also know how best to persuade a court to rule in a way that favors their client. Law school models and hones these skills. One of the most important skills a good lawyer possesses is the ability to distinguish between those legal questions to which the law provides a clear answer, and those questions that are unsettled. A client contemplating some course of conduct will want to know whether it is clearly legal, clearly illegal, or possibly legal but possibly the sort of conduct that could result in civil liability, a fine, or even imprisonment. Likewise, a client facing a lawsuit will be much more likely to settle the case if her lawyer tells her that there is a greater than fifty percent chance of liability, than if her lawyer says that she will almost certainly win. As these examples suggest, the answers to legal questions fall along a spectrum that ranges from crystal clear to extremely unclear. Law teachers tend to ask questions of their students without first identifying whether we are simply asking for the answer--as we might, if we are testing their ability to look up clear answers--or whether we are, instead, asking them to show us how they can argue for one or another result when the law does not provide a clear answer. That brings me to my first piece of advice. You should understand every question your instructors ask as really posing two questions: In addition to the question itself, there is a prior, unstated, query: Is this the sort of question to which the law provides a clear answer? The Right Kind of Confusion Students sometimes tell me that they came to class understanding the assigned material, but left class in a state of confusion. No doubt, some such confusion arises from my deficiencies as a teacher, but not all of it, I suspect. In many of these instances, the students were simply mistaken: They came to class with only a superficial understanding of the material. In a typical law school class, the instructor spends only a relatively small proportion of the allotted time covering the basics. What were the facts of the relevant case? What did the court decide? What reasons did it give? The answers to these sorts of questions are apparent on the face of the material, or at least they become apparent to students within a few weeks of the start of law school, as they learn how to read and understand legal documents. But such an understanding is superficial because the real work of lawyers is synthetic. They need to be able to take rulings from many different cases and construct a set of general rules and principles that they then bring to bear on new cases. For any reasonably complicated area of the law, there will be no single right answer to the question of how to combine the relevant cases to discern a set of general rules and principles. And even when experts agree about the relevant rules and principles, there will be many borderline cases as to which the way these rules and principles ought to apply is indeterminate. Law school teachers tend to focus a good portion of their questions and discussion on these borderline cases, so as to help students understand the limits of the law. Thus, a student should be confused at the end of a good class, because a good class will have probed the areas in which the law is unsettled or confused. We might even say that if I haven't managed to confuse my students, I haven't done my job! The key for students is to arrive at the right sort of confusion. Students should not be swimming in confusion. Rather, they should be able to see just where the law leaves gaps and ambiguities. Aiming to arrive at the right kind of confusion is simply another way of saying that law students should be able to tell the difference between questions that have clear answers, and questions that do not. Thus we come to my second piece of advice: As you prepare for class, try to internalize the voice of your professors asking questions about the margins of the legal issues that are being covered. Go beyond the basics of each case to ask yourself how the announced rule of law applies in other circumstances, the extent to which it overlaps with or contradicts decisions in other cases, and whether the individual decision or the pattern as a whole makes sense in light of the law's purposes. These questions form the bulk of what you study in class, and so you should try to anticipate them before class. Don't Just Read; Write and Discuss In many of your law school classes, all or most of your grade will be based on your performance on a final examination at the end of the semester. Those high stakes can be anxiety-provoking on their own, but there is an added kicker in law school: We do not prepare you to take exams. The bulk of classroom discussion is deconstructive. Your instructors pose hypothetical questions to get you to say whether you think a case you read was rightly or wrongly decided. Yet, on our exams, we ask you to be constructive: We provide you with a set of real or hypothetical facts and ask you how the existing law applies. To be sure, the analytical skills we teach in class should be useful in answering exam questions. If you have been reading carefully and paying attention in class, you will have a good idea of how to synthesize different cases to yield a general rule that is applicable in new cases. You will even have some experience in making short oral statements explaining your reasoning. What you will mostly lack, however, is practice in making a sustained written argument for a particular result or explaining the competing considerations in play. Your first-semester course in legal writing will have given you some practice in this skill, but it will not necessarily involve the subject matter of your substantive classes. And even if your instructors have provided you with practice exercises during the course of the semester, you will have spent only a small fraction of your total preparation time outside class on such exercises. Thus, I come to my third piece of advice: Complete practice exams. Many professors distribute their exams from previous years, but it is not essential that you work with those in particular. There are websites and books containing practice exams. Beginning about mid-way through the semester, you should practice answering exam questions under simulated exam conditions. Then get together with a group of classmates to review your respective answers. You will find that the practice improves your general ability to write exams and that the discussion with classmates helps you learn the material. Have Fun Fourth and finally, you should try to have fun in law school. By that, I mean two things. First, make some time to do fun things outside of your studies: exercise; go to the movies; read fiction; do some of whatever you liked to do before you committed yourself to studying the law. Second, have fun in your study of the law. Law is both a fascinating mental puzzle and a supremely important social institution. You are studying it to become a competent professional, but in the course of doing so, you should also bring to bear the same spirit of intellectual inquiry that characterized your undergraduate studies (assuming you didn't waste your time in college). Treating your legal studies as a continuation of a liberal education will enable you to enjoy law school and will make you a better lawyer. Writing over a century ago, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. said more or less the same thing, albeit more poetically: The "more general aspects of the law," Holmes wrote, "give it universal interest. It is through them that you not only become a great master in your calling, but connect your subject with the universe and catch an echo of the infinite . . . ." Even if you fail to hear that echo, the least you can do is to try to find your study of law interesting. _____ Michael C. Dorf is the Robert S. Stevens Professor of Law at Cornell University. He blogs at dorfonlaw.org . 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Name: image006.png Type: image/png Size: 166 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon Aug 30 04:07:17 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 21:07:17 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] lawyers in intellectual property In-Reply-To: <0F6BB300-96BA-492F-8F07-6B45DEF21D43@comcast.net> References: <0F6BB300-96BA-492F-8F07-6B45DEF21D43@comcast.net> Message-ID: Thanks Fred. I'm currently in high school, with the opportunity to take advanced classes. Any classes I should look out for? Any classes I can take advantage of to give me a credit counting towards the field or at least give me some knowledge foundation leading up to my law study? Thanks. Jorge On Aug 29, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Fred Wright Lopez wrote: > Jorge: Berkley Law (Boalt Hall) Law School, University of California Berkeley is perhaps the nations best known intellectual property law school. It is constantly ranked as the number one law school in this area. However there are many other excellent law schools that offer intellectual law courses, seminars and clinical placements, such as Stanford Law and UCLA Law schools. I graduated from Boalt Hall many years back but largely practiced in the area of Federal criminal law. Although admissions is very competitive UC Berkley has strong reputation for assisting students with disabilities. Now retired, I use the law library at Boalt Hall frequently. Recently, I had an issue with low vision equipment (CCTV) at the law library, the school aced quickly to acquire additional equipment and make sure that is was readily accessible. Good luck and contact me if I can be of further assistance. > > Fred W. Lopez > Boalt Hall Class 1979 > > > > On Aug 29, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> Hello all: >> I am thinking of studying intellectual proprerty law as my law specialization choice in a few years. >> Any blind lawyers in this list who study the field? >> What problems did you come up against? >> What advice would you give someone just starting out in the field? >> >> Any law univercities that are well known for accessibility? >> >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> Jorge >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com Thanks. Jorge Paez --- President And CEO: Paez Production Networks Please note: this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication is directed to. If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this message and/or any accompanying media. From b75205 at gmail.com Mon Aug 30 14:32:34 2010 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:32:34 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing In-Reply-To: References: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F6061AEB97@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> <4C753F47.7050501@ameritech.net> Message-ID: You don't have to buy their book, you can use other sources. They are not providing a necessary service. What is a reasonable accessibility? That is not defined. Oh sure we have section 508 which makes documents legally accessible but not actually accessible. The conditions right now is to make some content accessible to the blind, it does not matter to the law that all of the content is not accessible only parts of it. And so you have this horrible situation we have today where content is half accessible, there are gaps and there is no incentive to fix this gap. Why should anyone help you if they are not going to be paid to help you. People have other things to do than to work on making content free to the blind. This is an extremely time consuming effort, it is not easy and you want it for free. If there is no incentive to help you other than the sense of trying to do something good for people and when people like you are demanding that they do this stuff with no reward then you get what you have today, nothing complete, content that is partially accessible deemed to be accessible. You have to rely on organizations that are overeloaded with work to get out the content. That is the state of things today. James On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Marc Workman wrote: > James said, > > West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's > property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to them! > > Marc says, > Is it up to them if they don't want to sell their books to black people? If > you decide to sell your goods to the public, their are constraints placed on > you. Someone may own a restaurant, but ownership does not mean that she has > no obligation to make the restaurant wheelchair accessible. I think it's a > legitimate argument to say that publishers who sell their books to the > public have obligations to take reasonable steps to make their products > accessible to people with print disabilities. If taking these steps > constitutes an undo hardship, which you seem to imply, then that's another > question, but insisting on reasonable accommodations is not the same as > seizing property. > > Regards, > > Marc > ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:00 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing > > > What? the costs of making a book accessible are excessive. That is the >> problem here. Where do you get the idea that it is easy? Ah you hear >> things >> like you can make DAISY books in Microsoft Word well pal until you >> actually >> do it, you do not realize how much content goes missing. All of this free >> software that is designed for accessibility misses the mark. Just look at >> what we have now. Are you happy with accessibility now. Are we all done, >> don't need to do any more work on this, everything is accessible now. >> >> If it were easy everyone would do it. The problem here is that there are >> half a dozen different formats for electronic books, not to mention all of >> the free services that create books and each one of them, I repeat each >> one >> of them has to be laid out individually and that means the editors are >> editing editions over and over again. Until this gets standardized onto >> one >> format then publishers can challenge these laws telling them they have to >> do >> it for free. >> >> West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's >> property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to them! >> >> James >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Mon Aug 30 16:34:02 2010 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:34:02 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing In-Reply-To: References: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F6061AEB97@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov><4C753F47.7050501@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <1C60C7C4B8CA485A93167142594677DB@MarcPC> James said, You don't have to buy their book, you can use other sources. They are not providing a necessary service. Marc says, You don't have to come into my restaurant. There are other restaurants with ramps. I am not providing a necessary service, so I have no obligation to make my restaurant accessible. Would you accept this argument? James said, What is a reasonable accessibility? That is not defined. Marc says, My guess is you meant reasonable accommodation, but the fact that it is not defined does not mean service providers are absolved of all obligations. This is why courts, human rights tribunals, legislators, and so on exist, to define and clarify concepts like reasonable accommodation, undo hardship, discrimination, etc. James said, Why should anyone help you if they are not going to be paid to help you. People have other things to do than to work on making content free to the blind. Marc says, Why should I build a ramp so you can get in my restaurant? I have other things to do than to build free ramps for wheelchair users. James said, This is an extremely time consuming effort, it is not easy and you want it for free. If there is no incentive to help you other than the sense of trying to do something good for people and when people like you are demanding that they do this stuff with no reward then you get what you have today, nothing complete, content that is partially accessible deemed to be accessible. Marc says, Building ramps is an extremely time-consuming effort. It is not easy, and you want it for free. Therefore, I have no obligation to make my restaurant accessible. Do you think this is an acceptable argument? There is, of course, an incentive. It's a negative one: if you don't take reasonable steps to make your product accessible, in accordance with the law, then you will be penalized, and you will no longer be able to sell your product. Sounds like a pretty good incentive to me. If I'm a racist, what is my incentive to sell my product to people of different races? It is certainly not to be nice. My incentive is the same as that noted above: if I choose to discriminate, then I can't sell my product in America, period. You can argue that making printed books accessible costs *too* much, that it *does* constitute an undo hardship. I doubt that, but for all I know it could be the case. What you can't do, at least not if you want to consistently maintain that unjustifiable discrimination in the market place is wrong, is say that, because it's expensive, or because it's not easy, or because I'm insisting on equal access at an equal price, there are no obligations to take reasonable steps to make products and services accessible to all consumers. Best, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing > You don't have to buy their book, you can use other sources. They are not > providing a necessary service. What is a reasonable accessibility? That > is not defined. Oh sure we have section 508 which makes documents legally > accessible but not actually accessible. The conditions right now is to > make > some content accessible to the blind, it does not matter to the law that > all > of the content is not accessible only parts of it. And so you have this > horrible situation we have today where content is half accessible, there > are > gaps and there is no incentive to fix this gap. Why should anyone help you > if they are not going to be paid to help you. People have other things to > do than to work on making content free to the blind. This is an extremely > time consuming effort, it is not easy and you want it for free. If there > is > no incentive to help you other than the sense of trying to do something > good > for people and when people like you are demanding that they do this stuff > with no reward then you get what you have today, nothing complete, content > that is partially accessible deemed to be accessible. You have to rely on > organizations that are overeloaded with work to get out the content. That > is the state of things today. > > James > > On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Marc Workman > wrote: > >> James said, >> >> West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's >> property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to them! >> >> Marc says, >> Is it up to them if they don't want to sell their books to black people? >> If >> you decide to sell your goods to the public, their are constraints placed >> on >> you. Someone may own a restaurant, but ownership does not mean that she >> has >> no obligation to make the restaurant wheelchair accessible. I think it's >> a >> legitimate argument to say that publishers who sell their books to the >> public have obligations to take reasonable steps to make their products >> accessible to people with print disabilities. If taking these steps >> constitutes an undo hardship, which you seem to imply, then that's >> another >> question, but insisting on reasonable accommodations is not the same as >> seizing property. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:00 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing >> >> >> What? the costs of making a book accessible are excessive. That is >> the >>> problem here. Where do you get the idea that it is easy? Ah you hear >>> things >>> like you can make DAISY books in Microsoft Word well pal until you >>> actually >>> do it, you do not realize how much content goes missing. All of this >>> free >>> software that is designed for accessibility misses the mark. Just look >>> at >>> what we have now. Are you happy with accessibility now. Are we all >>> done, >>> don't need to do any more work on this, everything is accessible now. >>> >>> If it were easy everyone would do it. The problem here is that there >>> are >>> half a dozen different formats for electronic books, not to mention all >>> of >>> the free services that create books and each one of them, I repeat each >>> one >>> of them has to be laid out individually and that means the editors are >>> editing editions over and over again. Until this gets standardized onto >>> one >>> format then publishers can challenge these laws telling them they have >>> to >>> do >>> it for free. >>> >>> West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's >>> property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to them! >>> >>> James >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From withat at msn.com Mon Aug 30 16:45:11 2010 From: withat at msn.com (Johnston) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:45:11 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] lawyers in intellectual property References: <0F6BB300-96BA-492F-8F07-6B45DEF21D43@comcast.net> Message-ID: Hi Jorge, Lewis & Clark Law School in Portland has a fantastic IP certificate program. I am a 2L there, and couldn't be happier. They have bent over backward to provide any accommodation that I could imagine and need. This is the webpage describing the IP certificate program: http://www.lclark.edu/law/programs/intellectual_property_law/ The school's phone number is 503-768-6600. As for classes, a *patent* attorney needs to have a scientific or engineering degree. This is not required of lawyers doing trademark or copyright law. Interestingly, a person doesn't even need to be a lawyer to file patents: this is called a patent agent. Good luck! Jay in Portland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] lawyers in intellectual property > Thanks Fred. > I'm currently in high school, with the opportunity to take advanced > classes. > Any classes I should look out for? > Any classes I can take advantage of to give me a credit counting towards > the field or at least give me some knowledge foundation leading up to my > law study? > > Thanks. > > Jorge > > > > > > On Aug 29, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Fred Wright Lopez wrote: > >> Jorge: Berkley Law (Boalt Hall) Law School, University of California >> Berkeley is perhaps the nations best known intellectual property law >> school. It is constantly ranked as the number one law school in this >> area. However there are many other excellent law schools that offer >> intellectual law courses, seminars and clinical placements, such as >> Stanford Law and UCLA Law schools. I graduated from Boalt Hall many >> years back but largely practiced in the area of Federal criminal law. >> Although admissions is very competitive UC Berkley has strong reputation >> for assisting students with disabilities. Now retired, I use the law >> library at Boalt Hall frequently. Recently, I had an issue with low >> vision equipment (CCTV) at the law library, the school aced quickly to >> acquire additional equipment and make sure that is was readily >> accessible. Good luck and contact me if I can be of further assistance. >> >> Fred W. Lopez >> Boalt Hall Class 1979 >> >> >> >> On Aug 29, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Jorge Paez wrote: >> >>> Hello all: >>> I am thinking of studying intellectual proprerty law as my law >>> specialization choice in a few years. >>> Any blind lawyers in this list who study the field? >>> What problems did you come up against? >>> What advice would you give someone just starting out in the field? >>> >>> Any law univercities that are well known for accessibility? >>> >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > Thanks. > > > > Jorge Paez > > > --- > President And CEO: > Paez Production Networks > > > > > > Please note: > this message may contain confidential and/or classified information. > Such information is only revealed to the person to whom this communication > is directed to. > If you have received this message in error, please type "error" in the > subject line for the reply message and destroy any and all copies of this > message and/or any accompanying media. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/withat%40msn.com > From withat at msn.com Mon Aug 30 16:49:43 2010 From: withat at msn.com (Johnston) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:49:43 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing References: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F6061AEB97@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov><4C753F47.7050501@ameritech.net> <1C60C7C4B8CA485A93167142594677DB@MarcPC> Message-ID: Hello James, As a law school student, it isn't true that I have the option of not buying a particular publisher's text. Professors dictate which texts are required- period. As for an incentive on the publisher's part, there are plenty of things that aren't financially advantageous to companies but are necessary for consumers: take safety laws for example. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Workman" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing > James said, > You don't have to buy their book, you can use other sources. They are not > providing a necessary service. > > Marc says, > You don't have to come into my restaurant. There are other restaurants > with ramps. I am not providing a necessary service, so I have no > obligation to make my restaurant accessible. Would you accept this > argument? > > James said, > What is a reasonable accessibility? That is not defined. > > Marc says, > My guess is you meant reasonable accommodation, but the fact that it is > not defined does not mean service providers are absolved of all > obligations. This is why courts, human rights tribunals, legislators, and > so on exist, to define and clarify concepts like reasonable accommodation, > undo hardship, discrimination, etc. > > James said, > Why should anyone help you if they are not going to be paid to help you. > People have other things to do than to work on making content free to the > blind. > > Marc says, > Why should I build a ramp so you can get in my restaurant? I have other > things to do than to build free ramps for wheelchair users. > > James said, > This is an extremely time consuming effort, it is not easy and you want it > for free. If there is no incentive to help you other than the sense of > trying to do something good for people and when people like you are > demanding that they do this stuff with no reward then you get what you > have today, nothing complete, content that is partially accessible deemed > to be accessible. > > Marc says, > Building ramps is an extremely time-consuming effort. It is not easy, and > you want it for free. Therefore, I have no obligation to make my > restaurant accessible. Do you think this is an acceptable argument? > > There is, of course, an incentive. It's a negative one: if you don't take > reasonable steps to make your product accessible, in accordance with the > law, then you will be penalized, and you will no longer be able to sell > your product. Sounds like a pretty good incentive to me. If I'm a > racist, what is my incentive to sell my product to people of different > races? It is certainly not to be nice. My incentive is the same as that > noted above: if I choose to discriminate, then I can't sell my product in > America, period. > > You can argue that making printed books accessible costs *too* much, that > it *does* constitute an undo hardship. I doubt that, but for all I know > it could be the case. What you can't do, at least not if you want to > consistently maintain that unjustifiable discrimination in the market > place is wrong, is say that, because it's expensive, or because it's not > easy, or because I'm insisting on equal access at an equal price, there > are no obligations to take reasonable steps to make products and services > accessible to all consumers. > > Best, > > Marc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Pepper" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 8:32 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing > > >> You don't have to buy their book, you can use other sources. They are >> not >> providing a necessary service. What is a reasonable accessibility? That >> is not defined. Oh sure we have section 508 which makes documents legally >> accessible but not actually accessible. The conditions right now is to >> make >> some content accessible to the blind, it does not matter to the law that >> all >> of the content is not accessible only parts of it. And so you have this >> horrible situation we have today where content is half accessible, there >> are >> gaps and there is no incentive to fix this gap. Why should anyone help >> you >> if they are not going to be paid to help you. People have other things >> to >> do than to work on making content free to the blind. This is an extremely >> time consuming effort, it is not easy and you want it for free. If there >> is >> no incentive to help you other than the sense of trying to do something >> good >> for people and when people like you are demanding that they do this stuff >> with no reward then you get what you have today, nothing complete, >> content >> that is partially accessible deemed to be accessible. You have to rely >> on >> organizations that are overeloaded with work to get out the content. >> That >> is the state of things today. >> >> James >> >> On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Marc Workman >> wrote: >> >>> James said, >>> >>> West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's >>> property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to them! >>> >>> Marc says, >>> Is it up to them if they don't want to sell their books to black people? >>> If >>> you decide to sell your goods to the public, their are constraints >>> placed on >>> you. Someone may own a restaurant, but ownership does not mean that she >>> has >>> no obligation to make the restaurant wheelchair accessible. I think >>> it's a >>> legitimate argument to say that publishers who sell their books to the >>> public have obligations to take reasonable steps to make their products >>> accessible to people with print disabilities. If taking these steps >>> constitutes an undo hardship, which you seem to imply, then that's >>> another >>> question, but insisting on reasonable accommodations is not the same as >>> seizing property. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marc >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:00 PM >>> >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing >>> >>> >>> What? the costs of making a book accessible are excessive. That is >>> the >>>> problem here. Where do you get the idea that it is easy? Ah you hear >>>> things >>>> like you can make DAISY books in Microsoft Word well pal until you >>>> actually >>>> do it, you do not realize how much content goes missing. All of this >>>> free >>>> software that is designed for accessibility misses the mark. Just look >>>> at >>>> what we have now. Are you happy with accessibility now. Are we all >>>> done, >>>> don't need to do any more work on this, everything is accessible now. >>>> >>>> If it were easy everyone would do it. The problem here is that there >>>> are >>>> half a dozen different formats for electronic books, not to mention all >>>> of >>>> the free services that create books and each one of them, I repeat each >>>> one >>>> of them has to be laid out individually and that means the editors are >>>> editing editions over and over again. Until this gets standardized >>>> onto >>>> one >>>> format then publishers can challenge these laws telling them they have >>>> to >>>> do >>>> it for free. >>>> >>>> West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's >>>> property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to >>>> them! >>>> >>>> James >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/withat%40msn.com > From tom at tomladis.com Tue Aug 31 14:21:33 2010 From: tom at tomladis.com (Tom Ladis) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:21:33 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] West Publishing References: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F6061AEB97@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov><4C753F47.7050501@ameritech.net><1C60C7C4B8CA485A93167142594677DB@MarcPC> Message-ID: <3073BBC77A12470FA4BF267FBC2BEECE@TMLDELLLAPTOP1> Hello all, My two cents is that publishers need to step up and do the right thing. If they have the money to make their stuff available on the iPhone, iPad, Mac, and multiple browsers, they should be willing to put in a little bit more effort and make a little bit less profit. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnston" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing > Hello James, > > As a law school student, it isn't true that I have the option of not > buying a particular publisher's text. Professors dictate which texts are > required- period. As for an incentive on the publisher's part, there are > plenty of things that aren't financially advantageous to companies but are > necessary for consumers: take safety laws for example. > > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marc Workman" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 9:34 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing > > >> James said, >> You don't have to buy their book, you can use other sources. They are >> not providing a necessary service. >> >> Marc says, >> You don't have to come into my restaurant. There are other restaurants >> with ramps. I am not providing a necessary service, so I have no >> obligation to make my restaurant accessible. Would you accept this >> argument? >> >> James said, >> What is a reasonable accessibility? That is not defined. >> >> Marc says, >> My guess is you meant reasonable accommodation, but the fact that it is >> not defined does not mean service providers are absolved of all >> obligations. This is why courts, human rights tribunals, legislators, and >> so on exist, to define and clarify concepts like reasonable >> accommodation, undo hardship, discrimination, etc. >> >> James said, >> Why should anyone help you if they are not going to be paid to help you. >> People have other things to do than to work on making content free to the >> blind. >> >> Marc says, >> Why should I build a ramp so you can get in my restaurant? I have other >> things to do than to build free ramps for wheelchair users. >> >> James said, >> This is an extremely time consuming effort, it is not easy and you want >> it for free. If there is no incentive to help you other than the sense >> of trying to do something good for people and when people like you are >> demanding that they do this stuff with no reward then you get what you >> have today, nothing complete, content that is partially accessible deemed >> to be accessible. >> >> Marc says, >> Building ramps is an extremely time-consuming effort. It is not easy, >> and you want it for free. Therefore, I have no obligation to make my >> restaurant accessible. Do you think this is an acceptable argument? >> >> There is, of course, an incentive. It's a negative one: if you don't >> take reasonable steps to make your product accessible, in accordance with >> the law, then you will be penalized, and you will no longer be able to >> sell your product. Sounds like a pretty good incentive to me. If I'm a >> racist, what is my incentive to sell my product to people of different >> races? It is certainly not to be nice. My incentive is the same as that >> noted above: if I choose to discriminate, then I can't sell my product in >> America, period. >> >> You can argue that making printed books accessible costs *too* much, that >> it *does* constitute an undo hardship. I doubt that, but for all I know >> it could be the case. What you can't do, at least not if you want to >> consistently maintain that unjustifiable discrimination in the market >> place is wrong, is say that, because it's expensive, or because it's not >> easy, or because I'm insisting on equal access at an equal price, there >> are no obligations to take reasonable steps to make products and services >> accessible to all consumers. >> >> Best, >> >> Marc >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "James Pepper" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 8:32 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing >> >> >>> You don't have to buy their book, you can use other sources. They are >>> not >>> providing a necessary service. What is a reasonable accessibility? >>> That >>> is not defined. Oh sure we have section 508 which makes documents >>> legally >>> accessible but not actually accessible. The conditions right now is to >>> make >>> some content accessible to the blind, it does not matter to the law that >>> all >>> of the content is not accessible only parts of it. And so you have this >>> horrible situation we have today where content is half accessible, there >>> are >>> gaps and there is no incentive to fix this gap. Why should anyone help >>> you >>> if they are not going to be paid to help you. People have other things >>> to >>> do than to work on making content free to the blind. This is an >>> extremely >>> time consuming effort, it is not easy and you want it for free. If >>> there is >>> no incentive to help you other than the sense of trying to do something >>> good >>> for people and when people like you are demanding that they do this >>> stuff >>> with no reward then you get what you have today, nothing complete, >>> content >>> that is partially accessible deemed to be accessible. You have to rely >>> on >>> organizations that are overeloaded with work to get out the content. >>> That >>> is the state of things today. >>> >>> James >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Marc Workman >>> wrote: >>> >>>> James said, >>>> >>>> West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's >>>> property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to >>>> them! >>>> >>>> Marc says, >>>> Is it up to them if they don't want to sell their books to black >>>> people? If >>>> you decide to sell your goods to the public, their are constraints >>>> placed on >>>> you. Someone may own a restaurant, but ownership does not mean that >>>> she has >>>> no obligation to make the restaurant wheelchair accessible. I think >>>> it's a >>>> legitimate argument to say that publishers who sell their books to the >>>> public have obligations to take reasonable steps to make their products >>>> accessible to people with print disabilities. If taking these steps >>>> constitutes an undo hardship, which you seem to imply, then that's >>>> another >>>> question, but insisting on reasonable accommodations is not the same as >>>> seizing property. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Marc >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:00 PM >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] West Publishing >>>> >>>> >>>> What? the costs of making a book accessible are excessive. That is >>>> the >>>>> problem here. Where do you get the idea that it is easy? Ah you hear >>>>> things >>>>> like you can make DAISY books in Microsoft Word well pal until you >>>>> actually >>>>> do it, you do not realize how much content goes missing. All of this >>>>> free >>>>> software that is designed for accessibility misses the mark. Just >>>>> look at >>>>> what we have now. Are you happy with accessibility now. Are we all >>>>> done, >>>>> don't need to do any more work on this, everything is accessible now. >>>>> >>>>> If it were easy everyone would do it. The problem here is that there >>>>> are >>>>> half a dozen different formats for electronic books, not to mention >>>>> all of >>>>> the free services that create books and each one of them, I repeat >>>>> each >>>>> one >>>>> of them has to be laid out individually and that means the editors are >>>>> editing editions over and over again. Until this gets standardized >>>>> onto >>>>> one >>>>> format then publishers can challenge these laws telling them they have >>>>> to >>>>> do >>>>> it for free. >>>>> >>>>> West publishing owns their book. Unless you want to seize people's >>>>> property, then if they want to sell the product then that is up to >>>>> them! >>>>> >>>>> James >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/withat%40msn.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tom%40tomladis.com >