From editor.nftb at gmail.com  Fri Jan  1 05:18:45 2010
From: editor.nftb at gmail.com (Will May)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 00:18:45 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Intro and request for assistance
In-Reply-To: <017101ca898a$58b17f00$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
References: <017101ca898a$58b17f00$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
Message-ID: <bd5993380912312118k7f606a36k249229a1cf25045f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tammy, The professor is a muppet.  SoldierGirl can certainly be an
attorney, she just has to work harder, but the name she chose implies
that.

I am not an attorney, but am very familiar with a narrow sliver of the
law; bankruptcy practice; I have been a federal trustee for
substantial bankrupt estates 11 times over three decades.

Were she to have interest in this area of practice, glad to share knowledge,

Will

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 2:57 PM, tammy cantrell
<t.l.cantrell at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hello!
> My name is Tammy.  I was referred to this list because I am trying to help a College student with a challenging problem.  I do look forward to hearing your comments and suggestions.  I will just copy my email that got me pointed in your direction.  Thanks so much for your help!
> Hello!
> I am looking for some input on behalf of a College student.  I will share her story and hopefully somebody would offer some suggestions or a resource.
>
> This student is blind and is currently working on a bachelor's degree in Political Science.  Her plans are to become a lawyer.  She has tried to participate in Mock Trials but has met up with problems.  The professor says she can only be the witness but because she is blind she can not be the lawyer.  He says since she can't quickly read through the documents, she will not be able to question the witness and present her case.
>
> This student has high expectations for herself and I hate to see her fall short of her goals because of discrimination or ignorance.
>
> I have been given permission to share her email address;
> soldiergirl2010 at aol.com
>
> If you would be willing to share ideas with her, it would be so very much appreciated!  If you don't have ideas and know somebody that might, please pass this on to them.  Your help is greatly needed.
>
> Thanks for all of your help!
> Smile! GOD loves you!
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmail.com
>


From rjaquiss at earthlink.net  Fri Jan  1 18:45:15 2010
From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 12:45:15 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file
References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn><A81BF68C5437437AB9806878A94B7B25@FJP7MG1>
	<001201ca8996$085ca730$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <FA63439202BF4FBC8C27F1A65ACB4EE9@D3DTZP41>

Hello RJ:

     The file you sent was empty. It was zero bytes long.

Regards,

Robert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] PDF file


>I don't have courswall. How long does it take to print out this document on
> verchoal pinteral? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mudhaffer Al-Momani" <almomani at optonline.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 7:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] PDF file
>
>
>> Hi
>> This is what I do
>> Open the PDF file the print it out by pressing control P then choose
>> vertual printer if you have Kersweil on your computer then hit enter. It
>> will open it in Kersweil then you can read it or save it as a word
>> document.
>> Good luck
>> Mudhaffer
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 8:14 PM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file
>>
>>
>>> Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for these
>>> types of files? RJ
>>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/almomani%40optonline.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net
> 



From dandrews at visi.com  Fri Jan  1 22:40:59 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 16:40:59 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file
In-Reply-To: <74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7446@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot .gov>
References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
	<auto-000132937851@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7446@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov>
Message-ID: <auto-000133323625@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Just like a lawyer to have to argue about the purpose of the list, 
(smile.)  Yes, most lawyers are going to have to use technology 
successfully to succeed today.  Consequently, I know that there is 
going to be some technology discussion here.  However, I was trying 
to make two points.  First, this list probably isn't the best source 
of technical advice, as most of the people here are not primarily 
technology-related.  That is why I suggested gui-talk.  To illustrate 
my point, if you had a question about  software licensing, you might 
get an answer at gui-talk -- but this list might be a better 
choice.  My second point was that if a list goes off topic to far, 
for to long, people start dropping away.  I just wanted to gently 
remind people of the purpose of the list, so the discussion could 
take place and end.

Now that you brought this up we will probably get in a long 
discussion about the purpose of the list etc.

Dave

At 11:10 AM 12/31/2009, you wrote:
>Dave,
>If one who is blind is to be a successful attorney, isn't the knowledge
>of what that individual's colleagues are doing with respect to greater
>access of documents on topic?  This list has always been not only for
>the discussion of blindness and the law but a list for blind attorneys
>to collaborate and not reinvent the wheel.  In my humble opinion, if
>questions related to converting legal documents sent as PDFs is off
>topic, then perhaps the participation by non-attorneys or non-legal
>professionals/law students on this list is also not appropriate?
>
>Respectfully,
>Craig
>
>Craig Borne, Esq.
>NHTSA/DOT
>(202) 493-0627
>craig.borne at dot.gov
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>On Behalf Of David Andrews
>Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:26 AM
>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] PDF file
>
>This list is not a technology list, but for discussion of blindness
>and the law.
>
>Dave
>
>At 07:14 PM 12/27/2009, you wrote:
> >Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for
> >these types of files? RJ
> >
> >
> >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> >signature database 4723 (20091228) __________
> >
> >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
> >
> >http://www.eset.com
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >blindlaw mailing list
> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >for blindlaw:
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi
>si.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/craig.borne%40
>dot.gov
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4735 (20100101) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com



From b75205 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  2 05:54:18 2010
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 23:54:18 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file
In-Reply-To: <auto-000133323625@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
	<auto-000132937851@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7446@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov>
	<auto-000133323625@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <fe5b78281001012154r6c8ce71ck4b688cfabffbae2f@mail.gmail.com>

If you have Adobe Acrobat Professional, you can go to menus and
select Document tab and click on OCR Recognition (which uses the capital C
for the shortcut), then select "Recognize Text Using OCR . . ."  Then you
save the file after this function finishes.  Then you reopen the file.
Chances are this will not work very well but it is your best bet.  Most
forms and other types of legal documents use fonts that are not good enough
for most OCR work.  But since this is built into Adobe Acrobat Professional
it is the best solution that is easy to use.

James Pepper

From pattichang at att.net  Sat Jan  2 18:57:06 2010
From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory-Chang)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 12:57:06 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Intro and request for assistance
References: <017101ca898a$58b17f00$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
Message-ID: <A967E7C62BDA4D179C0A4EC96AE4D95D@D3J75Z91>

I did moot court and trial ad not to mention clinics at Univ of Chicago Law 
School.  Has she talked to the Dean yet?  This is discrimination plain and 
simple.  We have an attorney in Illinois named Denise Avant who will be 
arguing for real before the IL Supreme Court this month.  Lots of us 
litigate in real court rooms all over the country.


P.S.  National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at 
www.twitter.com/nfbi.
We also have a facebook page.  Just search for our full name.

Patti Gregory-Chang
President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois
pattichang at att.net
www.nfbofillinois.org
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "tammy cantrell" <t.l.cantrell at comcast.net>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:57 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Intro and request for assistance


> Hello!
> My name is Tammy.  I was referred to this list because I am trying to help 
> a College student with a challenging problem.  I do look forward to 
> hearing your comments and suggestions.  I will just copy my email that got 
> me pointed in your direction.  Thanks so much for your help!
> Hello!
> I am looking for some input on behalf of a College student.  I will share 
> her story and hopefully somebody would offer some suggestions or a 
> resource.
>
> This student is blind and is currently working on a bachelor's degree in 
> Political Science.  Her plans are to become a lawyer.  She has tried to 
> participate in Mock Trials but has met up with problems.  The professor 
> says she can only be the witness but because she is blind she can not be 
> the lawyer.  He says since she can't quickly read through the documents, 
> she will not be able to question the witness and present her case.
>
> This student has high expectations for herself and I hate to see her fall 
> short of her goals because of discrimination or ignorance.
>
> I have been given permission to share her email address;
> soldiergirl2010 at aol.com
>
> If you would be willing to share ideas with her, it would be so very much 
> appreciated!  If you don't have ideas and know somebody that might, please 
> pass this on to them.  Your help is greatly needed.
>
> Thanks for all of your help!
> Smile! GOD loves you!
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net 


From deepa.goraya at gmail.com  Sat Jan  2 19:39:36 2010
From: deepa.goraya at gmail.com (Deepa Goraya)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 14:39:36 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] my friend is in need of a lawyer
Message-ID: <D245E3690C69434391A28F990E8BF1A0@Goraya>

Hello List,

My friend Angela Garey is battling in court for custody over her son. She is almost totally blind and so far the court has only granted her visitation rights and has given full custody to the father who is sighted. She is due back in court in mid January and cannot afford a lawyer. The father, however, has an attorney. Is there anyone in southern California who can take her case or does anyone know of any attorneys who can? Her case will take place in Riverside. Please contact me for more info.

Thanks so much,

Deepa Goraya

From attorney at alcidonislaw.com  Sat Jan  2 20:29:08 2010
From: attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:29:08 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Intro and request for assistance
In-Reply-To: <A967E7C62BDA4D179C0A4EC96AE4D95D@D3J75Z91>
References: <017101ca898a$58b17f00$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
	<A967E7C62BDA4D179C0A4EC96AE4D95D@D3J75Z91>
Message-ID: <299C90F8C02A489DA7A827B85FA1B70E@RodelynPC>

As lawyers, let's be careful with crying discrimination without knowing more 
about the situation. This can be a case where the professor is misinformed 
rather than anything else. If it is taking the student two hours to do a 
mock direct examination where it is taking a sighted student 10 minutes, 
there is a problem. I am not saying this is the case but the professor may 
feel a bit concerned with how things are happening in his classroom.

We need to know what accommodations the student is working with, and what it 
is she is doing to litigate. While many blind lawyers can do trial work, 
many cannot. This is dirty business.

Solution: both the professor and student have to be educated on the issues. 
I doubt that the professor is even an attorney, let alone a practicing one. 
Maybe the student is not organizing her work in a workable manner.

Rod Alcidonis
Attorney and Counselor at Law
Philadelphia, PA
Licensed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey
Phone: (215) 821-6047
Cell: (718) 704-4651
Attorney at alcidonislaw.com

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" <pattichang at att.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:57 PM
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Intro and request for assistance

> I did moot court and trial ad not to mention clinics at Univ of Chicago 
> Law School.  Has she talked to the Dean yet?  This is discrimination plain 
> and simple.  We have an attorney in Illinois named Denise Avant who will 
> be arguing for real before the IL Supreme Court this month.  Lots of us 
> litigate in real court rooms all over the country.
>
>
> P.S.  National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at 
> www.twitter.com/nfbi.
> We also have a facebook page.  Just search for our full name.
>
> Patti Gregory-Chang
> President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois
> pattichang at att.net
> www.nfbofillinois.org
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "tammy cantrell" <t.l.cantrell at comcast.net>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:57 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Intro and request for assistance
>
>
>> Hello!
>> My name is Tammy.  I was referred to this list because I am trying to 
>> help a College student with a challenging problem.  I do look forward to 
>> hearing your comments and suggestions.  I will just copy my email that 
>> got me pointed in your direction.  Thanks so much for your help!
>> Hello!
>> I am looking for some input on behalf of a College student.  I will share 
>> her story and hopefully somebody would offer some suggestions or a 
>> resource.
>>
>> This student is blind and is currently working on a bachelor's degree in 
>> Political Science.  Her plans are to become a lawyer.  She has tried to 
>> participate in Mock Trials but has met up with problems.  The professor 
>> says she can only be the witness but because she is blind she can not be 
>> the lawyer.  He says since she can't quickly read through the documents, 
>> she will not be able to question the witness and present her case.
>>
>> This student has high expectations for herself and I hate to see her fall 
>> short of her goals because of discrimination or ignorance.
>>
>> I have been given permission to share her email address;
>> soldiergirl2010 at aol.com
>>
>> If you would be willing to share ideas with her, it would be so very much 
>> appreciated!  If you don't have ideas and know somebody that might, 
>> please pass this on to them.  Your help is greatly needed.
>>
>> Thanks for all of your help!
>> Smile! GOD loves you!
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com 



From attorney at alcidonislaw.com  Sat Jan  2 21:09:41 2010
From: attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 16:09:41 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] my friend is in need of a lawyer
In-Reply-To: <D245E3690C69434391A28F990E8BF1A0@Goraya>
References: <D245E3690C69434391A28F990E8BF1A0@Goraya>
Message-ID: <A3376E62C3C9426FA9E0D06AF27D0B84@RodelynPC>

Call the local bar association -- some of them have attorney referral.
A legal aide office may also take the case pro bono.

Rod Alcidonis
Attorney and Counselor at Law
Philadelphia, PA
Licensed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey
Phone: (215) 821-6047
Cell: (718) 704-4651
Attorney at alcidonislaw.com

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Deepa Goraya" <deepa.goraya at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 2:39 PM
To: "blindlaw" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [blindlaw] my friend is in need of a lawyer

> Hello List,
>
> My friend Angela Garey is battling in court for custody over her son. She 
> is almost totally blind and so far the court has only granted her 
> visitation rights and has given full custody to the father who is sighted. 
> She is due back in court in mid January and cannot afford a lawyer. The 
> father, however, has an attorney. Is there anyone in southern California 
> who can take her case or does anyone know of any attorneys who can? Her 
> case will take place in Riverside. Please contact me for more info.
>
> Thanks so much,
>
> Deepa Goraya
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com 



From cdborne at gmail.com  Sat Jan  2 23:00:32 2010
From: cdborne at gmail.com (Craig Borne)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 18:00:32 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78281001012154r6c8ce71ck4b688cfabffbae2f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
	<auto-000132937851@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7446@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov>
	<auto-000133323625@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<fe5b78281001012154r6c8ce71ck4b688cfabffbae2f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9ff3c6ac1001021500p13bc8c8bs881f72c414df60@mail.gmail.com>

I am not sure how you have it set up, but if you already have the PDF,
you simply launch ABBYYY fine reader, press control + W, locate the
PDF, and press enter.  The PDF will be converted into Word.
Craig

On 1/2/10, James Pepper <b75205 at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you have Adobe Acrobat Professional, you can go to menus and
> select Document tab and click on OCR Recognition (which uses the capital C
> for the shortcut), then select "Recognize Text Using OCR . . ."  Then you
> save the file after this function finishes.  Then you reopen the file.
> Chances are this will not work very well but it is your best bet.  Most
> forms and other types of legal documents use fonts that are not good enough
> for most OCR work.  But since this is built into Adobe Acrobat Professional
> it is the best solution that is easy to use.
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.com
>


From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan  3 04:00:25 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 20:00:25 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] my friend is in need of a lawyer
In-Reply-To: <A3376E62C3C9426FA9E0D06AF27D0B84@RodelynPC>
References: <D245E3690C69434391A28F990E8BF1A0@Goraya>
	<A3376E62C3C9426FA9E0D06AF27D0B84@RodelynPC>
Message-ID: <89965BE0511A4ABAB28511AD0D3ABCF0@spike>

Yes, the Riverside County Bar Association has a lawyer referral service. 
Their web site isriversidecountybar.com.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rod Alcidonis" <attorney at alcidonislaw.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] my friend is in need of a lawyer


> Call the local bar association -- some of them have attorney referral.
> A legal aide office may also take the case pro bono.
>
> Rod Alcidonis
> Attorney and Counselor at Law
> Philadelphia, PA
> Licensed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey
> Phone: (215) 821-6047
> Cell: (718) 704-4651
> Attorney at alcidonislaw.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Deepa Goraya" <deepa.goraya at gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 2:39 PM
> To: "blindlaw" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [blindlaw] my friend is in need of a lawyer
>
>> Hello List,
>>
>> My friend Angela Garey is battling in court for custody over her son. She 
>> is almost totally blind and so far the court has only granted her 
>> visitation rights and has given full custody to the father who is 
>> sighted. She is due back in court in mid January and cannot afford a 
>> lawyer. The father, however, has an attorney. Is there anyone in southern 
>> California who can take her case or does anyone know of any attorneys who 
>> can? Her case will take place in Riverside. Please contact me for more 
>> info.
>>
>> Thanks so much,
>>
>> Deepa Goraya
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From clucas at disabilitypride.com  Sun Jan  3 15:53:16 2010
From: clucas at disabilitypride.com (Carrie Ann Lucas)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 08:53:16 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] my friend is in need of a lawyer
In-Reply-To: <A3376E62C3C9426FA9E0D06AF27D0B84@RodelynPC>
References: <D245E3690C69434391A28F990E8BF1A0@Goraya>
	<A3376E62C3C9426FA9E0D06AF27D0B84@RodelynPC>
Message-ID: <15750FADD4F140A1820CCECF61D1B243@carrie9c3a269f>

 Has your friend contacted Through the Looking Glass (www.lookingglass.org)
for technical assistance and attorney referrals?  They are an organization
that supports parents with disabilities in California, and they operate a
technical assistance and information and referral line nationwide.

Carrie Ann Lucas
Director Center for Rights of Parents with Disabilities 
Colorado Cross-Disability Coalition
655 Broadway, Suite 775
Denver, CO 80203
303.839.1775 (main and messages)
303.839.0015 (direct and TTY)
303.839.1782 (facsimile)
800.817.1435 (main and messages)
877.267.1621 (direct and TTY)
www.ccdconline.org 

The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged,
confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended
recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly
prohibited. If you think you have received this message in error, please
e-mail the sender at clucas at ccdconline.org and delete it permanently from
your computer files. Thank you.



-----Original Message-----

From: "Deepa Goraya" <deepa.goraya at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 2:39 PM
To: "blindlaw" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [blindlaw] my friend is in need of a lawyer

> Hello List,
>
> My friend Angela Garey is battling in court for custody over her son. 
> She is almost totally blind and so far the court has only granted her 
> visitation rights and has given full custody to the father who is sighted.
> She is due back in court in mid January and cannot afford a lawyer. 
> The father, however, has an attorney. Is there anyone in southern 
> California who can take her case or does anyone know of any attorneys 
> who can? Her case will take place in Riverside. Please contact me for more
info.
>
> Thanks so much,
>
> Deepa Goraya



From womankind at earthlink.net  Sun Jan  3 18:51:17 2010
From: womankind at earthlink.net (Stephanie Ortoleva)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 13:51:17 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] ABBYYY fine reader
In-Reply-To: <9ff3c6ac1001021500p13bc8c8bs881f72c414df60@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
	<auto-000132937851@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7446@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov>
	<auto-000133323625@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<fe5b78281001012154r6c8ce71ck4b688cfabffbae2f@mail.gmail.com>
	<9ff3c6ac1001021500p13bc8c8bs881f72c414df60@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1NRVY4-0003gS-Tk@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

What is ABBYYY fine reader?
At 06:00 PM 1/2/2010, you wrote:
>I am not sure how you have it set up, but if you already have the PDF,
>you simply launch ABBYYY fine reader, press control + W, locate the
>PDF, and press enter.  The PDF will be converted into Word.
>Craig
>
>On 1/2/10, James Pepper <b75205 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > If you have Adobe Acrobat Professional, you can go to menus and
> > select Document tab and click on OCR Recognition (which uses the capital C
> > for the shortcut), then select "Recognize Text Using OCR . . ."  Then you
> > save the file after this function finishes.  Then you reopen the file.
> > Chances are this will not work very well but it is your best bet.  Most
> > forms and other types of legal documents use fonts that are not good enough
> > for most OCR work.  But since this is built into Adobe Acrobat Professional
> > it is the best solution that is easy to use.
> >
> > James Pepper
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindlaw:
> > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.com
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/womankind%40earthlink.net



From cdborne at gmail.com  Sun Jan  3 20:00:42 2010
From: cdborne at gmail.com (Craig Borne)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 15:00:42 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] ABBYYY fine reader
In-Reply-To: <E1NRVY4-0003gS-Tk@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
	<auto-000132937851@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7446@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov>
	<auto-000133323625@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<fe5b78281001012154r6c8ce71ck4b688cfabffbae2f@mail.gmail.com>
	<9ff3c6ac1001021500p13bc8c8bs881f72c414df60@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NRVY4-0003gS-Tk@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9ff3c6ac1001031200q3e460b81q94de4a049e1961de@mail.gmail.com>

Check out http://finereader.abbyy.com/professional
Craig

On 1/3/10, Stephanie Ortoleva <womankind at earthlink.net> wrote:
> What is ABBYYY fine reader?
> At 06:00 PM 1/2/2010, you wrote:
>>I am not sure how you have it set up, but if you already have the PDF,
>>you simply launch ABBYYY fine reader, press control + W, locate the
>>PDF, and press enter.  The PDF will be converted into Word.
>>Craig
>>
>>On 1/2/10, James Pepper <b75205 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > If you have Adobe Acrobat Professional, you can go to menus and
>> > select Document tab and click on OCR Recognition (which uses the capital
>> > C
>> > for the shortcut), then select "Recognize Text Using OCR . . ."  Then
>> > you
>> > save the file after this function finishes.  Then you reopen the file.
>> > Chances are this will not work very well but it is your best bet.  Most
>> > forms and other types of legal documents use fonts that are not good
>> > enough
>> > for most OCR work.  But since this is built into Adobe Acrobat
>> > Professional
>> > it is the best solution that is easy to use.
>> >
>> > James Pepper
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindlaw mailing list
>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > blindlaw:
>> >
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/womankind%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.com
>


From almomani at optonline.net  Sun Jan  3 21:24:48 2010
From: almomani at optonline.net (Mudhaffer Al-Momani)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 16:24:48 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] ABBYYY fine reader
References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
	<auto-000132937851@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7446@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov>
	<auto-000133323625@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<fe5b78281001012154r6c8ce71ck4b688cfabffbae2f@mail.gmail.com>
	<9ff3c6ac1001021500p13bc8c8bs881f72c414df60@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NRVY4-0003gS-Tk@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <D721C2127B7F4DC8B43356E204CE7C72@FJP7MG1>

Great question:-)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephanie Ortoleva" <womankind at earthlink.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 1:51 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] ABBYYY fine reader


> What is ABBYYY fine reader?
> At 06:00 PM 1/2/2010, you wrote:
>>I am not sure how you have it set up, but if you already have the PDF,
>>you simply launch ABBYYY fine reader, press control + W, locate the
>>PDF, and press enter.  The PDF will be converted into Word.
>>Craig
>>
>>On 1/2/10, James Pepper <b75205 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > If you have Adobe Acrobat Professional, you can go to menus and
>> > select Document tab and click on OCR Recognition (which uses the 
>> > capital C
>> > for the shortcut), then select "Recognize Text Using OCR . . ."  Then 
>> > you
>> > save the file after this function finishes.  Then you reopen the file.
>> > Chances are this will not work very well but it is your best bet.  Most
>> > forms and other types of legal documents use fonts that are not good 
>> > enough
>> > for most OCR work.  But since this is built into Adobe Acrobat 
>> > Professional
>> > it is the best solution that is easy to use.
>> >
>> > James Pepper
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindlaw mailing list
>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > blindlaw:
>> >
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/womankind%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/almomani%40optonline.net
> 



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Sun Jan  3 22:21:24 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 17:21:24 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] ABBYYY fine reader
In-Reply-To: <E1NRVY4-0003gS-Tk@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <14B0A83F10F74BCE99F548A9FDE8CAC7@Rufus>

It's like Openbook or Kurzweil, except a lot cheaper and much better.  You
do not have to use a blindness-specific application to produce great OCR.
ABBYY Finereader proves it.

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Ortoleva
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 1:51 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] ABBYYY fine reader

What is ABBYYY fine reader?
At 06:00 PM 1/2/2010, you wrote:
>I am not sure how you have it set up, but if you already have the PDF,
>you simply launch ABBYYY fine reader, press control + W, locate the
>PDF, and press enter.  The PDF will be converted into Word.
>Craig
>
>On 1/2/10, James Pepper <b75205 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > If you have Adobe Acrobat Professional, you can go to menus and
> > select Document tab and click on OCR Recognition (which 
uses the capital C
> > for the shortcut), then select "Recognize Text Using OCR . 
. ."  Then you
> > save the file after this function finishes.  Then you 
reopen the file.
> > Chances are this will not work very well but it is your 
best bet.  Most
> > forms and other types of legal documents use fonts that are 
not good enough
> > for most OCR work.  But since this is built into Adobe 
Acrobat Professional
> > it is the best solution that is easy to use.
> >
> > James Pepper
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
account info for
> > blindlaw:
> > 
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborn
e%40gmail.com
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/woman
kind%40earthlink.net


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz
co%40gmail.com
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of 
virus signature database 4738 (20100102) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4738 (20100102) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Mon Jan  4 00:30:10 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 19:30:10 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] ABBYYY fine reader
In-Reply-To: <14B0A83F10F74BCE99F548A9FDE8CAC7@Rufus>
References: <14B0A83F10F74BCE99F548A9FDE8CAC7@Rufus>
Message-ID: <92C5C07A5CB8495EBCAB68AFC8BC2982@StevePC>

How much is it, and where do you obtain it?
Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ABBYYY fine reader


> It's like Openbook or Kurzweil, except a lot cheaper and much better.  You
> do not have to use a blindness-specific application to produce great OCR.
> ABBYY Finereader proves it.
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Ortoleva
> Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 1:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] ABBYYY fine reader
>
> What is ABBYYY fine reader?
> At 06:00 PM 1/2/2010, you wrote:
>>I am not sure how you have it set up, but if you already have the PDF,
>>you simply launch ABBYYY fine reader, press control + W, locate the
>>PDF, and press enter.  The PDF will be converted into Word.
>>Craig
>>
>>On 1/2/10, James Pepper <b75205 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > If you have Adobe Acrobat Professional, you can go to menus and
>> > select Document tab and click on OCR Recognition (which
> uses the capital C
>> > for the shortcut), then select "Recognize Text Using OCR .
> . ."  Then you
>> > save the file after this function finishes.  Then you
> reopen the file.
>> > Chances are this will not work very well but it is your
> best bet.  Most
>> > forms and other types of legal documents use fonts that are
> not good enough
>> > for most OCR work.  But since this is built into Adobe
> Acrobat Professional
>> > it is the best solution that is easy to use.
>> >
>> > James Pepper
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindlaw mailing list
>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for
>> > blindlaw:
>> >
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborn
> e%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/woman
> kind%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz
> co%40gmail.com
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
> virus signature database 4738 (20100102) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 4738 (20100102) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2598 - Release Date: 01/03/10 
09:41:00



From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com  Mon Jan  4 18:49:22 2010
From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:49:22 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file
References: <20091229.064330.428.140252@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <74479E9D357149C884B52FBF2D6C1DBC@valtd>

Hi Patrick:

Yes, there is indeed a technology list.  To subscribe, send a blank message 
to:

blindtech-subscribe at yahoogroups.com

The traffic on the list can be high sometimes, but there are a lot of 
knowledgeable folks on the list who are always willing to help as best they 
can.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado 



From dricken at gmail.com  Tue Jan  5 20:10:02 2010
From: dricken at gmail.com (Kendrick Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 14:10:02 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Mock Trial
Message-ID: <9668861d1001051210u11de014bx8fdef28407958fa6@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

Looking for some tips on engaging the jury and moving about in the
courtroom.  Any feedback will be appreciated. I have done an appeal
courtroom setting and this is my first time working in a trial
courtroom setting.

-- 
Thanks, 2K

Being Blind isn't a right, it's a privilege!

****************************************
Kendrick R. Kennedy, BSBA

Juris Doctor Candidate, 2011
The University of Mississippi,
School of Law

P.O. Box 2006
University, MS 38677

Phone:(769) 218-0699
Cell   : (228) 424-4653
E-mail: dricken at gmail.com

=========================================
ESSENTIAL NOTICE
This message is confidential and for use by the addressee only. If you
are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose,
distribute, copy, print, or rely on this message. Please notify the
sender as soon as possible and then delete or otherwise destroy the
message and any copies thereof. No responsibility is accepted for
changes made to this message after it was sent nor for any loss or
damage from receipt or use.
========================================


From parnell at sccoast.net  Tue Jan  5 20:24:33 2010
From: parnell at sccoast.net (Parnell and Kim Diggs)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:24:33 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Mock Trial
References: <9668861d1001051210u11de014bx8fdef28407958fa6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2694007B9B02417B96F6F2EAF01AFC43@ownerbe272x6xz>

First of all, Kendrick, just be yourself.  Let me tell you a short story.

One time I took great measures in advance to familiarize myself with the 
courtroom, which featured a podium in front of the jury box.  I learned 
where this podium was and planned to start my opening statement from there. 
But when I got up to begin, I noticed that the podium had been moved. 
Opposing council maybe?  I didn't miss a beat.

In later appearances, I began using my cane to walk around because I am more 
comfortable with a cane.  Make sure you know where the jury is in relation 
to your table.  The judge and witnesses will speak so you can figure that 
one out.

Parnell

***********************************
Parnell and Kim Diggs
8845-B Chandler Dr.
Myrtle Beach, SC 29575
Home:  843-215-9056
Parnell office:  843-492-7411
Fax:  843-215-4928
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kendrick Kennedy" <dricken at gmail.com>
To: "NFB Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:10 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Mock Trial


> Hello All,
>
> Looking for some tips on engaging the jury and moving about in the
> courtroom.  Any feedback will be appreciated. I have done an appeal
> courtroom setting and this is my first time working in a trial
> courtroom setting.
>
> -- 
> Thanks, 2K
>
> Being Blind isn't a right, it's a privilege!
>
> ****************************************
> Kendrick R. Kennedy, BSBA
>
> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2011
> The University of Mississippi,
> School of Law
>
> P.O. Box 2006
> University, MS 38677
>
> Phone:(769) 218-0699
> Cell   : (228) 424-4653
> E-mail: dricken at gmail.com
>
> =========================================
> ESSENTIAL NOTICE
> This message is confidential and for use by the addressee only. If you
> are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose,
> distribute, copy, print, or rely on this message. Please notify the
> sender as soon as possible and then delete or otherwise destroy the
> message and any copies thereof. No responsibility is accepted for
> changes made to this message after it was sent nor for any loss or
> damage from receipt or use.
> ========================================
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/parnell%40sccoast.net


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2601 - Release Date: 01/05/10 
07:35:00



From parnell at sccoast.net  Tue Jan  5 21:20:44 2010
From: parnell at sccoast.net (Parnell and Kim Diggs)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:20:44 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Mock Trial
References: <9668861d1001051210u11de014bx8fdef28407958fa6@mail.gmail.com>
	<2694007B9B02417B96F6F2EAF01AFC43@ownerbe272x6xz>
Message-ID: <A7562E6982104E1E8E8C251C8AF97667@ownerbe272x6xz>

And Kendrick,

Don't spell "council" the way I did in this context.

Me
***********************************
Parnell and Kim Diggs
8845-B Chandler Dr.
Myrtle Beach, SC 29575
Home:  843-215-9056
Parnell office:  843-492-7411
Fax:  843-215-4928
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Parnell and Kim Diggs" <parnell at sccoast.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mock Trial


> First of all, Kendrick, just be yourself.  Let me tell you a short story.
>
> One time I took great measures in advance to familiarize myself with the
> courtroom, which featured a podium in front of the jury box.  I learned
> where this podium was and planned to start my opening statement from 
> there.
> But when I got up to begin, I noticed that the podium had been moved.
> Opposing council maybe?  I didn't miss a beat.
>
> In later appearances, I began using my cane to walk around because I am 
> more
> comfortable with a cane.  Make sure you know where the jury is in relation
> to your table.  The judge and witnesses will speak so you can figure that
> one out.
>
> Parnell
>
> ***********************************
> Parnell and Kim Diggs
> 8845-B Chandler Dr.
> Myrtle Beach, SC 29575
> Home:  843-215-9056
> Parnell office:  843-492-7411
> Fax:  843-215-4928
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kendrick Kennedy" <dricken at gmail.com>
> To: "NFB Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:10 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Mock Trial
>
>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> Looking for some tips on engaging the jury and moving about in the
>> courtroom.  Any feedback will be appreciated. I have done an appeal
>> courtroom setting and this is my first time working in a trial
>> courtroom setting.
>>
>> -- 
>> Thanks, 2K
>>
>> Being Blind isn't a right, it's a privilege!
>>
>> ****************************************
>> Kendrick R. Kennedy, BSBA
>>
>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2011
>> The University of Mississippi,
>> School of Law
>>
>> P.O. Box 2006
>> University, MS 38677
>>
>> Phone:(769) 218-0699
>> Cell   : (228) 424-4653
>> E-mail: dricken at gmail.com
>>
>> =========================================
>> ESSENTIAL NOTICE
>> This message is confidential and for use by the addressee only. If you
>> are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose,
>> distribute, copy, print, or rely on this message. Please notify the
>> sender as soon as possible and then delete or otherwise destroy the
>> message and any copies thereof. No responsibility is accepted for
>> changes made to this message after it was sent nor for any loss or
>> damage from receipt or use.
>> ========================================
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/parnell%40sccoast.net
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2601 - Release Date: 
> 01/05/10
> 07:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/parnell%40sccoast.net


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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07:35:00



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Tue Jan  5 21:51:51 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:51:51 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Mock Trial
In-Reply-To: <9668861d1001051210u11de014bx8fdef28407958fa6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FB385FE2F3E6453BAA66C242059E998C@Rufus>

The last time I competed in mock trial tournaments was in high school, but
one thing I took from those tournaments to the college debate circuit was
the 3-point walk.  After you've surveyed the space in which you have to
speak, you develop something like a triangle to help you shift from one
point to the next in your speech.  You can adjust your standing position
according to emphasis points in your address.  Very rarely do people walk
continuously while speaking, and I would think this would be the same for
attorneys speaking to juries.  I think the greater concern is hand gestures
and facial expressions.  My debate coach and I spent hours choreographing
some of my speeches until the movements became more natural.  It may not be
the case for everyone else, but I found that losing my vision meant placing
less importance on complementing my conversations with animation.  At any
rate, I'm no attorney, but I've done more than my share of public speaking.
It seems to me that a lot of your delivery rests more on your voice
inflection than on your choice of physical presentation.  Best of luck to
you.

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kendrick Kennedy
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:10 PM
To: NFB Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] Mock Trial

Hello All,

Looking for some tips on engaging the jury and moving about in the
courtroom.  Any feedback will be appreciated. I have done an appeal
courtroom setting and this is my first time working in a trial
courtroom setting.

-- 
Thanks, 2K

Being Blind isn't a right, it's a privilege!

****************************************
Kendrick R. Kennedy, BSBA

Juris Doctor Candidate, 2011
The University of Mississippi,
School of Law

P.O. Box 2006
University, MS 38677

Phone:(769) 218-0699
Cell   : (228) 424-4653
E-mail: dricken at gmail.com

=========================================
ESSENTIAL NOTICE
This message is confidential and for use by the addressee only. If you
are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose,
distribute, copy, print, or rely on this message. Please notify the
sender as soon as possible and then delete or otherwise destroy the
message and any copies thereof. No responsibility is accepted for
changes made to this message after it was sent nor for any loss or
damage from receipt or use.
========================================

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for blindlaw:
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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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From fwlopez at comcast.net  Tue Jan  5 22:46:39 2010
From: fwlopez at comcast.net (Fred Wright Lopez)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 14:46:39 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Mock Trial
In-Reply-To: <9668861d1001051210u11de014bx8fdef28407958fa6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9668861d1001051210u11de014bx8fdef28407958fa6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0050E6F4-BAC0-4E33-B560-A00FF35C6E8A@comcast.net>

Ms Kennedy
I am recently retired Federal government attorney.   In my career I  
did a fair amount of trail work, almost all criminal prosecution in  
Federal Court.  I attended the DOJ Trial Advocacy institute and  
instructed at the Federal Law Enforcement Center on criminal law and  
trial preparationI and testimony for Federal agents and forensic  
experts.   I did not lose my vision until my late forties which caused  
my early retirement as I no longer met the physical qualifications of  
my law enforcement agency.   I know do pro bono civl advocacy work in  
Federal Court and with Federal Agencies as well as Regional Centers  
for the Developmentally Disabled.    I mention this background to  
indicate that my approach to trial advocacy and jury trials has not  
changed due to my loss of vision.

Moving About the Court (YOU DON'T)

My comments herein are limited to Federal Courts and agencies.   In  
Federal Court attorneys are NOT allowed to move about the court room.   
If you need to approach the witness to ask the Judge for permission.   
If you want to approach the jury you ask for permission.   If you want  
to do anything, you better ask the Judge for permission.   In most  
instances, you will have a pre trial conference with the Curt and you  
should dvise the Court of any special needs such as equipment,   
lighting and handeling physical evidence.   In summary, in Federal  
Court you are pretty much stuck at the LECTERN (Never call it a  
podium!).   For the vision impaired, I find these rules to equalize or  
level the playing field.

Opening and Closing Statements

Never Over Promise your case in your Opening Statement.  The jury will  
remember what you said you will prove and if they do not rest assured  
that opposing counsel if they are good will remember and use any  
failure on your part to deliver as an argument with the jury.

Keep your Opening Simply.   In criminal cases it All About the  
Story.   Good Prosecutors tell the sory of what happened not in a  
legaistic language that the jury has difficulty understanding but in  
simple words that people speak daily.  Your opening is  Who What When  
Where and HOw.  This is combined with a few legalistic phrases like:   
The evidence will show that Mr. X  willfully / intentionally (dpending  
on legal standard) did XYZ.   You need to grab the jury attention and  
hold it not bore them with legalistic standards or jargon that makes  
them fall asleep.

Your closing argument is a Road Map of where you started and how the  
evidence you presented leads to the conclusion that Mr. X is guilty.  
Remind the jury of your Opening Argument and what you told them (Never  
you the phrse 'I promsied you ...").   If your case is complex, the  
Closing Argument is your opportunity to tie everything together, the  
witnesses, the evidence and the charges.


Civil Jury Trials

For the most part the rules above also apply in Civil Trials.  The  
idifferences are that in a Civil trial the court gives you the  
attorney more lattitude to aruge and sometimes move about BUT NOT  
ALWAYS.   In a Criminal Case, the Defense Attorney can sit back, after  
all its the burden of the prosecutor to prove beyond a reasonable  
doubt that Mr. X is guilty.  All teh Defense nees to say is that you  
failed to meet your burden of proof an ask fora directed verdict.  In  
Civil cases each attorney has to forcefully argue her case and can not  
sit back.

Some Techniques to Consider

First criminal trial I ever did as a prosecutor was will a very  
attractive U.S. Attorney as lead.  When she showed up for trial she  
was dressed down with little make up, looking very plain.  She  
explained to me later that she did this because she learned the hard  
way that she wanted the jury to focus on the Defendant and not her  
looks.   If you are the Defense, you dress up and have your client  
always dressed up.   Always be respectful of the Judge, opposing  
cousnel and the Defendant if there is one.  Remember the jury is  
always watching you.  In crimal cases, the Government is always held  
by the jury and the Court to a higher standard.

As a visually impaired trail attorney, I make it a point to speak with  
the Clerk and Judge before hand.  advise them of my vision limitations  
and what accomodations I will need.  I have never found a "NO" to any  
of my requests.  The the contrary, I find the court and Judges to go  
out of thei way to assist e.  Even opposing counsels have been  
cooperative.

Finally, enjoy the experience and learn from it,  We all make mistakes  
but the key is to learn form these mistakes and do better.

Good Luck:

Fred W. Lopez





n Jan 5, 2010, at 12:10 PM, Kendrick Kennedy wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> Looking for some tips on engaging the jury and moving about in the
> courtroom.  Any feedback will be appreciated. I have done an appeal
> courtroom setting and this is my first time working in a trial
> courtroom setting.
>
> -- 
> Thanks, 2K
>
> Being Blind isn't a right, it's a privilege!
>
> ****************************************
> Kendrick R. Kennedy, BSBA
>
> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2011
> The University of Mississippi,
> School of Law
>
> P.O. Box 2006
> University, MS 38677
>
> Phone:(769) 218-0699
> Cell   : (228) 424-4653
> E-mail: dricken at gmail.com
>
> =========================================
> ESSENTIAL NOTICE
> This message is confidential and for use by the addressee only. If you
> are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose,
> distribute, copy, print, or rely on this message. Please notify the
> sender as soon as possible and then delete or otherwise destroy the
> message and any copies thereof. No responsibility is accepted for
> changes made to this message after it was sent nor for any loss or
> damage from receipt or use.
> ========================================
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
> for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Wed Jan  6 03:26:57 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 22:26:57 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Telecommunications Accessibility
Message-ID: <84B80B60D481457E9B75197371FE003C@Rufus>

Hello,

Can someone tell me what statute spells out equal accessibility for
telecommunication providers?  I vaguely remember someone claiming they were
going to take their cell phone carrier to court for not allowing them to
cancel their contract on account of the phone not being accessible.  I doubt
the case ever got far, but at any rate, I can't remember what law they were
referencing or if it was some complaint they were taking to the FCC rather
than court.   Thanks for any information.

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4746 (20100105) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From b75205 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  7 02:28:20 2010
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 20:28:20 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] question
In-Reply-To: <D01F546F48964F58A22F7CC29BA21C74@russ>
References: <005c01ca87ce$8e6be990$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
	<bd5993380912301159w74470a84y12ad386bcb780838@mail.gmail.com>
	<D01F546F48964F58A22F7CC29BA21C74@russ>
Message-ID: <fe5b78281001061828v70e28515hcd7d6c91f6254920@mail.gmail.com>

Adobe Acrobat Standard or Professional has built in OCR for Acrobat
documents.

James Pepper

On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. <
rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com> wrote:

> PDF converter will do it.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Will May
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:59 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question
>
> I don't think OCR can work on PDF without printing out and flatbedding....
>
> Do you need something read to you; Send it, and I will send you an MP3
> of the audible verbatim transcription....Will
>
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:00 AM, RJ Sandefur
> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Does any one know of an OCR program for PDFS which have been scaned? My
> email address is: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
> > RJ
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> >
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmai
> l.com
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi
> rm.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>

From timandvickie at hotmail.com  Thu Jan  7 03:23:40 2010
From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 03:23:40 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] question
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78281001061828v70e28515hcd7d6c91f6254920@mail.gmail.com>
References: <005c01ca87ce$8e6be990$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>,
	<bd5993380912301159w74470a84y12ad386bcb780838@mail.gmail.com>,
	<D01F546F48964F58A22F7CC29BA21C74@russ>,
	<fe5b78281001061828v70e28515hcd7d6c91f6254920@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY139-W18C0141F91E7A596583C88CF710@phx.gbl>


yeah, but the OCR the have built in can be very buggy. I used to use it at my old job. I had been tasked tot ype in thousands of pages of army regulationsf rom the 40's and I was doing OCR and copying instead of typing it all like they had originally told me to, and I would have to do alot of teaking on the text.
 
> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 20:28:20 -0600
> From: b75205 at gmail.com
> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question
> 
> Adobe Acrobat Standard or Professional has built in OCR for Acrobat
> documents.
> 
> James Pepper
> 
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. <
> rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com> wrote:
> 
> > PDF converter will do it.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> > Behalf Of Will May
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:59 AM
> > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question
> >
> > I don't think OCR can work on PDF without printing out and flatbedding....
> >
> > Do you need something read to you; Send it, and I will send you an MP3
> > of the audible verbatim transcription....Will
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:00 AM, RJ Sandefur
> > <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Does any one know of an OCR program for PDFS which have been scaned? My
> > email address is: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
> > > RJ
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > blindlaw mailing list
> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindlaw:
> > >
> >
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmai
> > l.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindlaw:
> >
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi
> > rm.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindlaw:
> >
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
> >
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
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http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/

From b75205 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  7 03:50:12 2010
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 21:50:12 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] question
In-Reply-To: <BAY139-W18C0141F91E7A596583C88CF710@phx.gbl>
References: <005c01ca87ce$8e6be990$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
	<bd5993380912301159w74470a84y12ad386bcb780838@mail.gmail.com>
	<D01F546F48964F58A22F7CC29BA21C74@russ>
	<fe5b78281001061828v70e28515hcd7d6c91f6254920@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY139-W18C0141F91E7A596583C88CF710@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <fe5b78281001061950s4ada43a9u2a98c6a77e02aa3a@mail.gmail.com>

I know.  It is a mess!  But if you have acrobat it's still worth a try.

James

On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Tim Shaw <timandvickie at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> yeah, but the OCR the have built in can be very buggy. I used to use it at
> my old job. I had been tasked tot ype in thousands of pages of army
> regulationsf rom the 40's and I was doing OCR and copying instead of typing
> it all like they had originally told me to, and I would have to do alot of
> teaking on the text.
>
> > Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 20:28:20 -0600
> > From: b75205 at gmail.com
> > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question
>  >
> > Adobe Acrobat Standard or Professional has built in OCR for Acrobat
> > documents.
> >
> > James Pepper
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. <
> > rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com> wrote:
> >
> > > PDF converter will do it.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> > > Behalf Of Will May
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:59 AM
> > > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question
> > >
> > > I don't think OCR can work on PDF without printing out and
> flatbedding....
> > >
> > > Do you need something read to you; Send it, and I will send you an MP3
> > > of the audible verbatim transcription....Will
> > >
> > > On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:00 AM, RJ Sandefur
> > > <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Does any one know of an OCR program for PDFS which have been scaned?
> My
> > > email address is: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
> > > > RJ
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > blindlaw mailing list
> > > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > blindlaw:
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmai
> > > l.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > blindlaw mailing list
> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > blindlaw:
> > >
> > >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi
> > > rm.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > blindlaw mailing list
> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > blindlaw:
> > >
> > >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/
>  _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>

From bandbjacobs at verizon.net  Thu Jan  7 19:11:18 2010
From: bandbjacobs at verizon.net (The Jacobs Family)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 13:11:18 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Cat Systems with Realtime Capability...
Message-ID: <auto-000134330682@mailfront1.g2host.com>



Is there anyone out there familiar with something called "Cat 
Systems" with "Realtime" capability?  I've done a "Google" search and 
found that "Realtime" capability is merely software used by Court 
Reporters.  I am interested in applying for a Court Reporter position 
and would like to know if this system is used by bline folks?  Is 
this accessible or inaccessible to the Blind?  Or, can one use a 
notetaker and transcribe that way by connecting it to a Computer and 
printing transcript materials?

If anyone has any information at all for me, I can be reached at:

Phone: 410-455-5311
Email: <mailto:bandbjacobs at verizon.net>bandbjacobs at verizon.net

Have a great day and hope to hear from someone very soon?

Bern

From cdrobles693 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  7 11:17:36 2010
From: cdrobles693 at gmail.com (Chela Robles)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 05:17:36 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
Message-ID: <auto-000134106866@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the 
Social Security Administration now offers new ways to receive 
communications from them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on 
a CD-ROM, or regular print with a follow-up phone call to read the 
information. The braille and CD options start on April 15. Email is 
not an included option, but you can call a phone number to request a 
format not listed.
Please visit this link for more information on how to change from 
printed mail to another method.
<http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/

There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For 
Special Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I 
clicked the link, it said:

We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your 
request at this time.

This service is available during the following hours (Eastern Time):

Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM

If you need immediate assistance,

you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
1-800-772-1213

If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY number:
1-800-325-0778
If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get 
directions and a map to your local Social Security office by visiting 
link on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
----------------
"If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows, two 
days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing, 
girl you better look out, because everyone will know!"
----------------
Chela Robles
E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
MSNWindowsLive Messenger: 
<mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
Skype: jazzytrumpet

From t.l.cantrell at comcast.net  Fri Jan  8 03:45:00 2010
From: t.l.cantrell at comcast.net (tammy cantrell)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 21:45:00 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
References: <auto-000134106866@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <019b01ca9014$f514b0c0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>

Hello!
I just entered on this link and was told page not found.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chela Robles (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)" 
<cdrobles693 at gmail.com>
To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:17 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,not 
Email


> Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the Social 
> Security Administration now offers new ways to receive communications from 
> them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on a CD-ROM, or regular 
> print with a follow-up phone call to read the information. The braille and 
> CD options start on April 15. Email is not an included option, but you can 
> call a phone number to request a format not listed.
> Please visit this link for more information on how to change from printed 
> mail to another method.
> <http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/
>
> There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For Special 
> Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I clicked the 
> link, it said:
>
> We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your request at 
> this time.
>
> This service is available during the following hours (Eastern Time):
>
> Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
> Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
> Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
> Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>
> If you need immediate assistance,
>
> you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
> 1-800-772-1213
>
> If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY number:
> 1-800-325-0778
> If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get 
> directions and a map to your local Social Security office by visiting link 
> on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
> ----------------
> "If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows, two 
> days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing, girl you 
> better look out, because everyone will know!"
> ----------------
> Chela Robles
> E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
> MSNWindowsLive Messenger: 
> <mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
> Skype: jazzytrumpet
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/t.l.cantrell%40comcast.net 



From fwlopez at comcast.net  Fri Jan  8 04:30:51 2010
From: fwlopez at comcast.net (Fred Wright Lopez)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 20:30:51 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
In-Reply-To: <auto-000134106866@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000134106866@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <C4251A3D-4782-48AC-9920-509E3C7C33F3@comcast.net>

I received from the Social Security Administration the notification described in Chela Robles email (via David Andrews).  The SSA notice provided the options described in Ms Roble's email.  Unfortunately, there was NO LARGE PRINT OPTION OFFERED.    Although legally blind, I and I would suggest many others prefer to receive large print SSA Notices.   I called teh SSSA number provided int heir correspondence and the SSA Representative acknowledged the lack of this option, advised that their office had received other calls also pointing out this oversight.  The SSA Representative after checking with her supervisor stated she could go into the system and make a special entry indicating my desire for large print SSA notices.   Perhaps others on this list with more knowledge of the ACB vs SSA litigation can shed some light on this issue.

Fred Wright Lopez

On Jan 7, 2010, at 3:17 AM, Chela Robles (by way of David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>) wrote:

> Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the Social Security Administration now offers new ways to receive communications from them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on a CD-ROM, or regular print with a follow-up phone call to read the information. The braille and CD options start on April 15. Email is not an included option, but you can call a phone number to request a format not listed.
> Please visit this link for more information on how to change from printed mail to another method.
> <http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/
> 
> There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For Special Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I clicked the link, it said:
> 
> We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your request at this time.
> 
> This service is available during the following hours (Eastern Time):
> 
> Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
> Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
> Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
> Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
> 
> If you need immediate assistance,
> 
> you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
> 1-800-772-1213
> 
> If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY number:
> 1-800-325-0778
> If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get directions and a map to your local Social Security office by visiting link on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
> ----------------
> "If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows, two days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing, girl you better look out, because everyone will know!"
> ----------------
> Chela Robles
> E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
> MSNWindowsLive Messenger: <mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
> Skype: jazzytrumpet
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jan  8 08:36:35 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 00:36:35 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
In-Reply-To: <019b01ca9014$f514b0c0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
References: <auto-000134106866@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<019b01ca9014$f514b0c0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
Message-ID: <6311E57FB1EF4DF68946DEE5B8091224@spike>

    actually this is old news as this settlement was entered into several 
months ago.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "tammy cantrell" <t.l.cantrell at comcast.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,not 
Email


> Hello!
> I just entered on this link and was told page not found.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chela Robles (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)" 
> <cdrobles693 at gmail.com>
> To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:17 AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,not 
> Email
>
>
>> Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the Social 
>> Security Administration now offers new ways to receive communications 
>> from them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on a CD-ROM, or 
>> regular print with a follow-up phone call to read the information. The 
>> braille and CD options start on April 15. Email is not an included 
>> option, but you can call a phone number to request a format not listed.
>> Please visit this link for more information on how to change from printed 
>> mail to another method.
>> <http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/
>>
>> There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For Special 
>> Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I clicked the 
>> link, it said:
>>
>> We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your request at 
>> this time.
>>
>> This service is available during the following hours (Eastern Time):
>>
>> Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>> Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
>> Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
>> Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>>
>> If you need immediate assistance,
>>
>> you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
>> 1-800-772-1213
>>
>> If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY number:
>> 1-800-325-0778
>> If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get 
>> directions and a map to your local Social Security office by visiting 
>> link on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
>> ----------------
>> "If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows, two 
>> days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing, girl 
>> you better look out, because everyone will know!"
>> ----------------
>> Chela Robles
>> E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
>> MSNWindowsLive Messenger: 
>> <mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
>> Skype: jazzytrumpet
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/t.l.cantrell%40comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Fri Jan  8 13:21:28 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 08:21:28 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
In-Reply-To: <6311E57FB1EF4DF68946DEE5B8091224@spike>
References: <auto-000134106866@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<019b01ca9014$f514b0c0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
	<6311E57FB1EF4DF68946DEE5B8091224@spike>
Message-ID: <58AE1E109B1B4889BE91B0A2967CF2C2@StevePC>

SSA is the most screwed-up organization I have ever had the misfortune of 
dealing with.

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 3:36 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,not 
Email


>    actually this is old news as this settlement was entered into several
> months ago.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "tammy cantrell" <t.l.cantrell at comcast.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 7:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your 
> choice,not
> Email
>
>
>> Hello!
>> I just entered on this link and was told page not found.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Chela Robles (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)"
>> <cdrobles693 at gmail.com>
>> To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:17 AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,not
>> Email
>>
>>
>>> Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the Social
>>> Security Administration now offers new ways to receive communications
>>> from them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on a CD-ROM, or
>>> regular print with a follow-up phone call to read the information. The
>>> braille and CD options start on April 15. Email is not an included
>>> option, but you can call a phone number to request a format not listed.
>>> Please visit this link for more information on how to change from 
>>> printed
>>> mail to another method.
>>> <http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/
>>>
>>> There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For Special
>>> Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I clicked the
>>> link, it said:
>>>
>>> We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your request 
>>> at
>>> this time.
>>>
>>> This service is available during the following hours (Eastern Time):
>>>
>>> Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>>> Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
>>> Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
>>> Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>>>
>>> If you need immediate assistance,
>>>
>>> you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
>>> 1-800-772-1213
>>>
>>> If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY number:
>>> 1-800-325-0778
>>> If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get
>>> directions and a map to your local Social Security office by visiting
>>> link on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
>>> ----------------
>>> "If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows, two
>>> days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing, girl
>>> you better look out, because everyone will know!"
>>> ----------------
>>> Chela Robles
>>> E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
>>> MSNWindowsLive Messenger:
>>> <mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
>>> Skype: jazzytrumpet
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/t.l.cantrell%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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07:35:00



From stiehm.law at juno.com  Fri Jan  8 14:45:15 2010
From: stiehm.law at juno.com (stiehm.law)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:45:15 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
Message-ID: <20100108.064540.19009.164733@mailpop01.vgs.untd.com>

I tried it and it does seem to be working now.
 
Patrick H. Stiehm
Stiehm Law Office
Alexandria, VA 22309
703-360-1089 (Voice)
703-935-8266 (Fax)

On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 21:45:00 -0600 "tammy cantrell"
<t.l.cantrell at comcast.net> writes:
> Hello!
> I just entered on this link and was told page not found.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chela Robles (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)" 
> <cdrobles693 at gmail.com>
> To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:17 AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your 
> choice,not 
> Email
> 
> 
> > Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the 
> Social 
> > Security Administration now offers new ways to receive 
> communications from 
> > them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on a CD-ROM, or 
> regular 
> > print with a follow-up phone call to read the information. The 
> braille and 
> > CD options start on April 15. Email is not an included option, but 
> you can 
> > call a phone number to request a format not listed.
> > Please visit this link for more information on how to change from 
> printed 
> > mail to another method.
> > 
>
<http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/not
ices/
> >
> > There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For 
> Special 
> > Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I clicked 
> the 
> > link, it said:
> >
> > We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your 
> request at 
> > this time.
> >
> > This service is available during the following hours (Eastern 
> Time):
> >
> > Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
> > Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
> > Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
> > Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
> >
> > If you need immediate assistance,
> >
> > you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
> > 1-800-772-1213
> >
> > If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY 
> number:
> > 1-800-325-0778
> > If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get 
> 
> > directions and a map to your local Social Security office by 
> visiting link 
> > on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
> > ----------------
> > "If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows, 
> two 
> > days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing, 
> girl you 
> > better look out, because everyone will know!"
> > ----------------
> > Chela Robles
> > E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
> > MSNWindowsLive Messenger: 
> > <mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
> > Skype: jazzytrumpet
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for 
> > blindlaw:
> > 
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/t.l.cantrell%40
comcast.net 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju
no.com
> 
 
____________________________________________________________
Nutrition
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From t.l.cantrell at comcast.net  Fri Jan  8 15:50:55 2010
From: t.l.cantrell at comcast.net (tammy cantrell)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:50:55 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
References: <20100108.064540.19009.164733@mailpop01.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <003201ca907a$5d96e360$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>

Great!
I'll check it out.
Thanks!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "stiehm.law" <stiehm.law at juno.com>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,not 
Email


>I tried it and it does seem to be working now.
>
> Patrick H. Stiehm
> Stiehm Law Office
> Alexandria, VA 22309
> 703-360-1089 (Voice)
> 703-935-8266 (Fax)
>
> On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 21:45:00 -0600 "tammy cantrell"
> <t.l.cantrell at comcast.net> writes:
>> Hello!
>> I just entered on this link and was told page not found.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Chela Robles (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)"
>> <cdrobles693 at gmail.com>
>> To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:17 AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your
>> choice,not
>> Email
>>
>>
>> > Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the
>> Social
>> > Security Administration now offers new ways to receive
>> communications from
>> > them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on a CD-ROM, or
>> regular
>> > print with a follow-up phone call to read the information. The
>> braille and
>> > CD options start on April 15. Email is not an included option, but
>> you can
>> > call a phone number to request a format not listed.
>> > Please visit this link for more information on how to change from
>> printed
>> > mail to another method.
>> >
>>
> <http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/not
> ices/
>> >
>> > There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For
>> Special
>> > Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I clicked
>> the
>> > link, it said:
>> >
>> > We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your
>> request at
>> > this time.
>> >
>> > This service is available during the following hours (Eastern
>> Time):
>> >
>> > Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>> > Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
>> > Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
>> > Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>> >
>> > If you need immediate assistance,
>> >
>> > you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
>> > 1-800-772-1213
>> >
>> > If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY
>> number:
>> > 1-800-325-0778
>> > If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get
>>
>> > directions and a map to your local Social Security office by
>> visiting link
>> > on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
>> > ----------------
>> > "If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows,
>> two
>> > days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing,
>> girl you
>> > better look out, because everyone will know!"
>> > ----------------
>> > Chela Robles
>> > E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
>> > MSNWindowsLive Messenger:
>> > <mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
>> > Skype: jazzytrumpet
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindlaw mailing list
>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> > blindlaw:
>> >
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/t.l.cantrell%40
> comcast.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju
> no.com
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Nutrition
> Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=Rl1uJVu5j8pAs4qpY_740QAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA=
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/t.l.cantrell%40comcast.net 



From mhanson at winternet.com  Fri Jan  8 15:58:37 2010
From: mhanson at winternet.com (Michael O. Hanson)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:58:37 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
References: <20100108.064540.19009.164733@mailpop01.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <112417C376EB429C8B4FA1D45938F0FB@hp048378e4c43a>

I just tried it with no luck.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "stiehm.law" <stiehm.law at juno.com>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,not 
Email


>I tried it and it does seem to be working now.
>
> Patrick H. Stiehm
> Stiehm Law Office
> Alexandria, VA 22309
> 703-360-1089 (Voice)
> 703-935-8266 (Fax)
>
> On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 21:45:00 -0600 "tammy cantrell"
> <t.l.cantrell at comcast.net> writes:
>> Hello!
>> I just entered on this link and was told page not found.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Chela Robles (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)"
>> <cdrobles693 at gmail.com>
>> To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:17 AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your
>> choice,not
>> Email
>>
>>
>> > Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the
>> Social
>> > Security Administration now offers new ways to receive
>> communications from
>> > them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on a CD-ROM, or
>> regular
>> > print with a follow-up phone call to read the information. The
>> braille and
>> > CD options start on April 15. Email is not an included option, but
>> you can
>> > call a phone number to request a format not listed.
>> > Please visit this link for more information on how to change from
>> printed
>> > mail to another method.
>> >
>>
> <http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/not
> ices/
>> >
>> > There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For
>> Special
>> > Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I clicked
>> the
>> > link, it said:
>> >
>> > We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your
>> request at
>> > this time.
>> >
>> > This service is available during the following hours (Eastern
>> Time):
>> >
>> > Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>> > Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
>> > Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
>> > Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>> >
>> > If you need immediate assistance,
>> >
>> > you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
>> > 1-800-772-1213
>> >
>> > If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY
>> number:
>> > 1-800-325-0778
>> > If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get
>>
>> > directions and a map to your local Social Security office by
>> visiting link
>> > on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
>> > ----------------
>> > "If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows,
>> two
>> > days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing,
>> girl you
>> > better look out, because everyone will know!"
>> > ----------------
>> > Chela Robles
>> > E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
>> > MSNWindowsLive Messenger:
>> > <mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
>> > Skype: jazzytrumpet
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindlaw mailing list
>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> > blindlaw:
>> >
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/t.l.cantrell%40
> comcast.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju
> no.com
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Nutrition
> Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=Rl1uJVu5j8pAs4qpY_740QAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA=
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mhanson%40winternet.com
> 




From lberger at sfmslaw.com  Fri Jan  8 19:17:55 2010
From: lberger at sfmslaw.com (Lawrence D. Berger)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 14:17:55 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Telecommunications Accessibility
Message-ID: <F305B6954DB0DB4AAFB4B70A876A4C250A949E6D0E@sfms-mail2act.sfms.loc>

Several days ago, there was an inquiry about "telecommunications accessibility," and specifically cell phones.  I know nothing about it myself, but have a friend who is knowledgeable about the issue for people with hearing disabilities, and he pointed me to this web-site

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/dro/section255.html

which turns out to be an FCC web-site relating to Section 255 of the Communications Act which provides that "A provider of telecommunications service shall ensure that the service is accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities, if readily achievable."  As my friend added, the question of what exactly this means "would make a good law review article," but the web-site looks like a good place to start.

Larry Berger
Shepherd, Finkelman, Miller & Shah, LLP
mailto:lberger at sfmslaw.com
(610) 891-9880     phone
(610) 891-9883     fax




From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com  Sat Jan  9 02:01:22 2010
From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne)
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:01:22 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
In-Reply-To: <58AE1E109B1B4889BE91B0A2967CF2C2@StevePC>
References: <auto-000134106866@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<019b01ca9014$f514b0c0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
	<6311E57FB1EF4DF68946DEE5B8091224@spike>
	<58AE1E109B1B4889BE91B0A2967CF2C2@StevePC>
Message-ID: <20100109020122.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>

Steve: 
You've led a charmed life! Move to New York! I'd name some, but the list would be too long! 
Ray


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Date: Friday, Jan 8, 2010 8:34:19
Subject: Re: [bllaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice, not Email

>
>
> SSA is the most screwed-up organization I have ever had the misfortune of 
> dealing with.
> 
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 3:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [bllaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choiceean 
> Email
> 
> 
> >    actually this is old news as this settlement was entered into several
> > months ago.
> > Chuck
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "tammy cantrell" <t.l.cantrell at comcast.net>
> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 7:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: [bllaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your 
> > choiceean
> > Email
> >
> >
> >ar Hello!
> >ar I just entered on this link and was told page not found.
> >ar ----- Original Message ----- 
> >ar From: "Chela Robles (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)"
> >ar <cdrobles693 at gmail.com>
> >ar To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
> >ar Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:17 AM
> >ar Subject: [bllaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choiceean
> >ar Email
> >ar
> >ar
> >>> Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the Social
> >>> Security Administration now offers new ways to receive communications
> >>> from them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on a CD-ROM, or
> >>> regular print with a follow-up phone call to read the information. The
> >>> braille and CD options start on April 15. Email is not an included
> >>> option, but you can call a phone number to request a format not listed.
> >>> Please visit this link for more information on how to change from 
> >>> printed
> >>> mail to another method.
> >>> <http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/
> >>>
> >>> There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For Special
> >>> Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I clicked the
> >>> link, it said:
> >>>
> >>> We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your request 
> >>> at
> >>> this time.
> >>>
> >>> This service is available during the following hours (Eastern Time):
> >>>
> >>> Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM �� 2:00 AM
> >>> Saturday: 5:00 AM �� 11:00 PM
> >>> Sunday: 7:00 AM �� 11: PM
> >>> Holidays: 3:00 AM �� 2:00 AM
> >>>
> >>> If you need immediate assistance,
> >>>
> >>> you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM �� 7:00 PM at:
> >>> 1-800-772-1213
> >>>
> >>> If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY number:
> >>> 1-800-325-0778
> >>> If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get
> >>> directions and a map to your local Social Security office by visiting
> >>> link on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
> >>> ----------------
> >>> "If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows, two
> >>> days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing, girl
> >>> you better look out, because everyone will know!"
> >>> ----------------
> >>> Chela Robles
> >>> E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
> >>> MSNWindowsLive Messenger:
> >>> <mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
> >>> Skype: jazzytrumpet
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> bllaw mailing list
> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> bllaw:
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/t.l.cantrell%40comcast.net
> >ar
> >ar
> >ar _______________________________________________
> >ar bllaw mailing list
> >ar blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> >ar http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >ar To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >ar bllaw:
> >ar http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > bllaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> > bllaw:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG �� www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.130/2607 �� Release Date: 01/08/10 
> 07:35:00
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> bllaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com


From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Sat Jan  9 22:18:03 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 17:18:03 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
In-Reply-To: <20100109020122.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>
References: <auto-000134106866@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<019b01ca9014$f514b0c0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
	<6311E57FB1EF4DF68946DEE5B8091224@spike>
	<58AE1E109B1B4889BE91B0A2967CF2C2@StevePC>
	<20100109020122.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <F5CC22B86D044F03AA2CA3A4C4AE71F8@StevePC>

Yeah.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ray wayne" <rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,not 
Email


> Steve:
> You've led a charmed life! Move to New York! I'd name some, but the list 
> would be too long!
> Ray
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Friday, Jan 8, 2010 8:34:19
> Subject: Re: [bllaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice, not 
> Email
>
>>
>>
>> SSA is the most screwed-up organization I have ever had the misfortune of
>> dealing with.
>>
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 3:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: [bllaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choiceean
>> Email
>>
>>
>> >    actually this is old news as this settlement was entered into 
>> > several
>> > months ago.
>> > Chuck
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: "tammy cantrell" <t.l.cantrell at comcast.net>
>> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 7:45 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [bllaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your
>> > choiceean
>> > Email
>> >
>> >
>> >ar Hello!
>> >ar I just entered on this link and was told page not found.
>> >ar ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >ar From: "Chela Robles (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)"
>> >ar <cdrobles693 at gmail.com>
>> >ar To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>> >ar Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:17 AM
>> >ar Subject: [bllaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choiceean
>> >ar Email
>> >ar
>> >ar
>> >>> Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the 
>> >>> Social
>> >>> Security Administration now offers new ways to receive communications
>> >>> from them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on a CD-ROM, or
>> >>> regular print with a follow-up phone call to read the information. 
>> >>> The
>> >>> braille and CD options start on April 15. Email is not an included
>> >>> option, but you can call a phone number to request a format not 
>> >>> listed.
>> >>> Please visit this link for more information on how to change from
>> >>> printed
>> >>> mail to another method.
>> >>> <http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/
>> >>>
>> >>> There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For 
>> >>> Special
>> >>> Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I clicked 
>> >>> the
>> >>> link, it said:
>> >>>
>> >>> We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your 
>> >>> request
>> >>> at
>> >>> this time.
>> >>>
>> >>> This service is available during the following hours (Eastern Time):
>> >>>
>> >>> Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>> >>> Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
>> >>> Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
>> >>> Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>> >>>
>> >>> If you need immediate assistance,
>> >>>
>> >>> you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
>> >>> 1-800-772-1213
>> >>>
>> >>> If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY number:
>> >>> 1-800-325-0778
>> >>> If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get
>> >>> directions and a map to your local Social Security office by visiting
>> >>> link on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
>> >>> ----------------
>> >>> "If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows, two
>> >>> days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing, 
>> >>> girl
>> >>> you better look out, because everyone will know!"
>> >>> ----------------
>> >>> Chela Robles
>> >>> E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
>> >>> MSNWindowsLive Messenger:
>> >>> <mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
>> >>> Skype: jazzytrumpet
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> bllaw mailing list
>> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>> bllaw:
>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/t.l.cantrell%40comcast.net
>> >ar
>> >ar
>> >ar _______________________________________________
>> >ar bllaw mailing list
>> >ar blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> >ar http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> >ar To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >ar bllaw:
>> >ar 
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > bllaw mailing list
>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > bllaw:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.130/2607 - Release Date: 
>> 01/08/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bllaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> bllaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.130/2607 - Release Date: 01/08/10 
07:35:00



From MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com  Sat Jan  9 08:43:29 2010
From: MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com (Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 03:43:29 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
Message-ID: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>

please read and sign
      http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973/  
      Quick  

From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 10 08:07:39 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 00:07:39 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>
Message-ID: <C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>

Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have little 
if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a system 
of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of 
Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a consultant 
on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While consumers 
definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of their 
choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other legislation 
will not get rewritten using this format.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser" 
<MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] petition


> please read and sign
> 
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973/
>      Quick
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From mdubin at pobox.com  Sun Jan 10 11:26:07 2010
From: mdubin at pobox.com (Marc Dubin)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 03:26:07 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>
	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
Message-ID: <5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>

The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state agencies for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend National Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid for by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being experienced?
How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?

Thanks.
marc


Marc Dubin, Esq.
Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
mdubin at pobox.com
Mobile: 305-896-3000 
Fax: 877-731-3030
www.victimswithdisabilities.org 
Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee 
http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/ 
Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005   www.ada.gov 
Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have little 
if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a system 
of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of 
Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a consultant 
on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While consumers 
definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of their 
choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other legislation 
will not get rewritten using this format.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser" 
<MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] petition


> please read and sign
> 
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973/
>      Quick
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com


From k7uij at panix.com  Sun Jan 10 15:06:28 2010
From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 07:06:28 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>
Message-ID: <1D570901AC47476099046CEB015B53F9@owner1e06aeb63>

The usual mantra of many agencies/counselors amounts to the statement"Our 
state agency already has an orientation and training/adjustment center 
in-state which is largely already paid for so it's a waste of tax dollars to 
send the client out-of-state to what are essentially duplicate services 
which may be more expensive in any event". Implicit in this mantra is the 
assumption that there is nothing especially different or unique in training 
imbued with NFB philosophy.

Mike Freeman, President
NFB of Washington

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state agencies 
> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend National 
> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid for 
> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being 
> experienced?
> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>
> Thanks.
> marc
>
>
> Marc Dubin, Esq.
> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
> mdubin at pobox.com
> Mobile: 305-896-3000
> Fax: 877-731-3030
> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005 
> www.ada.gov
> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have little
> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a 
> system
> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a 
> consultant
> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While consumers
> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of 
> their
> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other legislation
> will not get rewritten using this format.
> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
> 1237 P Street
> Fresno ca 93721
> 559-266-9237
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> please read and sign
>>
>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973/
>>      Quick
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com 



From bspiry at comcast.net  Sun Jan 10 20:11:16 2010
From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 12:11:16 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis
In-Reply-To: <37377A4018494CDE8467A107DD5AA342@arm4rPC>
Message-ID: <mailman.25.1771244946.730098.blindlaw_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

I concur with Angie's assessment. I have run into some limitations in Lexis
while shepardizing cases, specifically the symbol system they use to
indicate treatment of the case in subsequent cases is not very accessible
with JAWS in some areas. I think the shepardizing tool is a bit more robust
than the Westlaw tool, maybe, but the westlaw site is definitely more
accessible even though a bit more cluttered than Lexis.
  

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:12 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis

I have had positive experiences with both. the Lexis customer service people
were very helpful when I called with a JAWS-related issue two years back. 
I'd say I probably prefer Westlaw because of the optional text site, but I
don't use that as my default. I find the main site quite navigable with
JAWS. I will use the text site if I have a very good idea of what I want to
find, or if I want to pull up specific sources.

Angie



----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Kelly" <Susan.Kelly at pima.gov>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis


> Our office has a Westlaw contract, so we didn't get much choice,  When I
> first started needing an adaptive tool for the computer, I was very
> annoyed with it, because it was not working well with my screen
> magnifier/reader (WinZoom) - then our rep told me about
> www.text.westlaw.com, the text-only version - and it is working quite
> well.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of James Weisberg
> Sent: Monday, 07 December, 2009 9:15 AM
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis
>
> My preference is Westlaw as they have some pretty good support for JAWS.
> I
> have a contact name and number but have never used it for JAWS training
> on
> Westlaw (which is provided by West).
>
> James W. Weisberg, Esq.
>
> Law Office of J. William Weisberg
>
> 299 South Patencio Road #3
>
> Palm Springs, California  92262
>
> V:  916.425.1010
>
> F:  916.374.7667
>
> E-Mail:  jimi-law at dc.rr.com
>
> Admitted in Wisconsin
>
> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil
> Rights
> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes
>
> This message contains information which may be confidential and
> privileged.
> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the
> addressee),
> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any
> information
> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error,
> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from
> your
> system.
>
> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client
> relationship
> nor does it constitute legal advice.  The Law Office of J. William
> Weisberg
> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in
> accordance with this disclaimer.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> Behalf Of Ben Karpilow
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM
> To: blind law mailing list
> Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis
>
> Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the
> verge of
> beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight).
> Thanks,
> Ben
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.
> rr.c
> om
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature
> database 4667 (20091207) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature
> database 4667 (20091207) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature
> database 4667 (20091207) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40
> pima.gov
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
il.com
> 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n
et



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 10 20:14:27 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 12:14:27 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>
Message-ID: <8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>

There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does not 
want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as the 
NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other things 
to be have the fees paid.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state agencies 
> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend National 
> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid for 
> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being 
> experienced?
> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>
> Thanks.
> marc
>
>
> Marc Dubin, Esq.
> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
> mdubin at pobox.com
> Mobile: 305-896-3000
> Fax: 877-731-3030
> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005 
> www.ada.gov
> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have little
> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a 
> system
> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a 
> consultant
> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While consumers
> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of 
> their
> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other legislation
> will not get rewritten using this format.
> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
> 1237 P Street
> Fresno ca 93721
> 559-266-9237
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> please read and sign
>>
>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973/
>>      Quick
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Jan 10 22:09:26 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:09:26 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Telecommunications Accessibility
In-Reply-To: <84B80B60D481457E9B75197371FE003C@Rufus>
References: <84B80B60D481457E9B75197371FE003C@Rufus>
Message-ID: <auto-000134372075@mailfront2.g2host.com>

It is section 255 of the Telecommunications Act of 1996.

Dave

At 09:26 PM 1/5/2010, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>Can someone tell me what statute spells out equal accessibility for
>telecommunication providers?  I vaguely remember someone claiming they were
>going to take their cell phone carrier to court for not allowing them to
>cancel their contract on account of the phone not being accessible.  I doubt
>the case ever got far, but at any rate, I can't remember what law they were
>referencing or if it was some complaint they were taking to the FCC rather
>than court.   Thanks for any information.
>
>Joe Orozco
>
>"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>crowd."--Max Lucado



From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Jan 10 23:24:30 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:24:30 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your  choice,
 not Email
In-Reply-To: <019b01ca9014$f514b0c0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
References: <auto-000134106866@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<019b01ca9014$f514b0c0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
Message-ID: <auto-000134666678@mailfront1.g2host.com>

I just tried it and it worked.  Make sure your mail program isn't 
wrapping it onto two lines, or truncating it in some other way.

Dave

At 09:45 PM 1/7/2010, you wrote:
>Hello!
>I just entered on this link and was told page not found.
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Chela Robles (by way of David 
>Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)" <cdrobles693 at gmail.com>
>To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:17 AM
>Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,not Email
>
>
>>Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the 
>>Social Security Administration now offers new ways to receive 
>>communications from them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word 
>>on a CD-ROM, or regular print with a follow-up phone call to read 
>>the information. The braille and CD options start on April 15. 
>>Email is not an included option, but you can call a phone number to 
>>request a format not listed.
>>Please visit this link for more information on how to change from 
>>printed mail to another method.
>><http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/
>>
>>There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For 
>>Special Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I 
>>clicked the link, it said:
>>
>>We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your 
>>request at this time.
>>
>>This service is available during the following hours (Eastern Time):
>>
>>Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>>Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
>>Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
>>Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>>
>>If you need immediate assistance,
>>
>>you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
>>1-800-772-1213
>>
>>If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY number:
>>1-800-325-0778
>>If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get 
>>directions and a map to your local Social Security office by 
>>visiting link on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
>>----------------
>>"If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows, 
>>two days, only you know, and more than three days without 
>>practicing, girl you better look out, because everyone will know!"
>>----------------
>>Chela Robles
>>E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
>>MSNWindowsLive Messenger: 
>><mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
>>Skype: jazzytrumpet



From b75205 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 17:58:08 2010
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:58:08 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>
	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>
	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>
Message-ID: <fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>

Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going to do
much.

 You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them why it
doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do not
work, they are not in your shoes.

James

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does not
> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as the
> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other things
> to be have the fees paid.
>
> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
> 1237 P Street
> Fresno ca 93721
> 559-266-9237
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state agencies
>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend National
>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid for
>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>> experienced?
>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>
>> Thanks.
>> marc
>>
>>
>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>> mdubin at pobox.com
>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>> www.ada.gov
>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have little
>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>> system
>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>> consultant
>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While consumers
>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>> their
>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other legislation
>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>> 1237 P Street
>> Fresno ca 93721
>> 559-266-9237
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>> please read and sign
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973/
>>>     Quick
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>

From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan 12 02:34:08 2010
From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:34:08 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
Message-ID: <005501ca932f$b813c5d0$6601a8c0@server>

If you are a blind lawyer or second or third year law student please read 
on.  We are pribeleged to be lawyers and this is an appeal for you to join 
with me to begin formulating a long term legal strategy which will enable us 
as blind people to make the same kind of progress in kind and degree as 
other minority groups have made during the past 60 years.  This will involve 
each of us becoming experts on the legal histories of women, blacks, and 
gays, to understand the seminal cases and legislation which has led to their 
progress, and to develop a well thought out, cohesive legal theory for blind 
civil rights which uses the issues and cases of these other groups as 
precedent or persuasive support for our own analogous legal claims.

When I was in law school I was fortunate to get to know one of the attorneys 
who worked on the Jackie Robinson law suit which integrated professional 
baseball.  He was a celebrated law professor and lawyer who participated in 
this law suit as a volunteer civil rights lawyer for B'nai B'rith.  Most of 
the successful civil rights cases which have led to the equality that blacks 
benefit from today were fought by the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai 
B'rith both together and separately.  Thergood Marshal was also a critical 
global thinker and player with the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and it was those 
successes which led President Johnson to appoint him to the Supreme Court.

My professor told me that the Jackie Robinson case was planned long before 
Jackie Robinson himself was identified as the best plaintiff for the case. 
In the 40's and 50's a group of very brilliant lawyers and law professors 
talked and met together frequently to create a long term legal strategy 
which could shape and reorient the law to achieve civil rights progress for 
both blacks and Jews.  They carefully decided which cases needed to be 
brought ahead of other cases because obviously some cases will become 
seminal and have a larger impact on society than others.

The decision to challenge professional baseballs prohibition against black 
players was one of these key strategic decisions.  Once it was decided to 
file this important case, they set out to find the right player to be the 
plaintiff.  He said that they knew they needed a player who was perfect in 
every way.  The player would need to be a great hitter and be pretty much 
qualified to play every other position on the field at a professional level. 
The key was to have a player who was so unbelievable in every way so that 
any argument which could be made against hiring such a black player would be 
clearly irrational, and as such based purely on racial prejudice.  Beyond 
this, he said that they needed a player who could emotionally withstand the 
abuse which would be aimed at him by players and fans once the case was won 
and he was hired.  He was going to be the target of much hatred, he would 
not be permitted to stay in hotels with the rest of the team in many cities, 
he could not eat in the same restaurants as the rest of the team in many 
cities, and his life really could be at risk.  It was undeniable that this 
was going to take a very special person and they waited quite a while to 
file the suit until they found jus that right person, and that man was 
Jackie Robinson.

The main point here is that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith 
didn't simply file cases willie nillie, but rather they chose cases 
carefully so as to move the courts along slowly but surely.  Filing a 
dubious case where there is a fifty fifty chance of losing would have been 
understood as potentially counter-productive.  Clearly if we as blind people 
win a case we have a precedent in our favor, but if we lose a case this is a 
setback because we have created a precedent that is contrary to our civil 
rights progress.

I am confident that I will be attacked for this, but I believe that we have 
steadily lost ground over the past 30 years in both education and 
employment.  Obviously today's young blind adults can not know this because 
as is true for all people, our reality is shaped mostly by what we are 
experiencing.  Moreover there is a human prejudice that today must always be 
better than yesterday.

but my claim is that those of us who were teenagers and young adults in the 
60's and 70's had more opportunities than similarly situated blind people 
today.  When I took the PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE LSAT, and 4 bar exams, I was 
given fair exams by competent readers.  To have done less than this in those 
days would have been regarded as unthinkable and absurd by the agencies 
providing these tests because it would have been thought as simply unfair. 
Today one is lucky if the reader provided by any of these agencies is barely 
literate.

For me most of these exams predated the ADA and my claim is that the ADA is 
the problem.  I have dealt with a number of these agencies on behalf of 
disabled clients who have come to me for help, and I can tell you that the 
agencies think the ADA empowers them to simply give blind people a reader of 
the agencies choosing.  On numerous occasions I have been told by 
representatives of these agencies that all they are required to do is 
provide a reader of their choosing.  I point out that the ADA says 
"qualified reader," not just a reader.  Inevitably they then claim that all 
their readers are qualified even though they can not articulate what steps 
they have taken to verify this to be true.  Further discussion usually 
results in a very smug acknowledgement that they hold all the power and if 
we think we can do something about it then go ahead.  They are right.  We 
have become powerless, but that can change if those of us with law school 
educations come together and force a change.

I would be curious to know how many blind students there are today at the 5 
top ranked engineering schools in the U.S.  My guess is zero, but I hope I 
am wrong about this.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were a number of 
us.  I attended Stanford in Mechanical Engineering from 1977 to 1981 and all 
of my materials were provided to me in Braille including thousands of raised 
line drawings, and without these materials it would have been impossible for 
me to do the program.  One of my engineering professors was a retired 
Admiral from the Navy and one day he asked me if an optacon would be useful 
to me and if I would like one?  I told him that I had a little experience 
with it, but they cost $5000 and I wasn't sure that I could afford it or 
that it would be useful enough to justify the cost.  He had an interesting 
response.  He said, Dennis first of all Stanford is rich so they can afford 
it.  Second, he said, "Stanford admitted you and it is Stanford's 
responsibility to provide you what ever resources you need to be 
successful."  Has anyone heard any professors today say anything like this? 
I think not.  On these forums I have read of a blind college student being 
told by a professor that he could not play in the school band because he was 
blind.  I would have thought that even the dumbest professor in the world 
could have gotten this right simply because of Ray Charles and Stevie 
Wonder.  I recall a law school dean at the University of Alaska stating that 
a blind applicant could not be admitted because blind people can not be 
lawyers.

Another of my professors was Robert Hofstadter.  He had a Nobel prize in 
Physics.  I approached him near the midterm, and asked him if we could 
arrange for someone to read the midterm to me.  He immediately responded, 
Well why don't you come to my office the morning of the test and I will read 
it to you, which he did.  I have read of professors who now shoot their 
exams over to the disability services office to be read aloud by someone 
completely unable to read aloud.  The professor can't be bothered today. 
When we finished Professor Hofstadter said that he wished he could do this 
with every student because he would then really know what students did and 
didn't understand and he would then know what he needed to spend additional 
time on in lectures.

There was no disabled students office to function as an obstacle between my 
professors and me.  There was no disabled students office which had the 
responsibility to provide me with Braille or readers or anything else, and 
this was a plus not a minus because today these offices frequently fall down 
on the job and the student is left completely holding the bag.  No business 
would rely on a vendor which comes through only 60 or 70 per cent of the 
time, particularly when the business has no power over the vendor.  This is 
a formula for disaster and no sensible manager would do this yet blind 
students are now forced into this situation all the time.  Because of this 
lack of accountability by disabled students offices I have recently read a 
discussion where a blind student is asking how he can handle a college math 
class using readers because he doesn't have a Braille math book.  No sighted 
student would be expected to do college math without a print book and they 
can see the board.  During the past 20 years I am confident that we have 
spent tens of millions of dollars on disability student offices and the 
students now have less than we had in the 70's without all this money having 
been spent.  Why?

I  would argue that we as lawyers need to rethink our current situation and 
get a handle on the legal twists and turns that brought us here.  My 
thinking is that we should begin by revisiting Plessy v. Ferguson an the 2 
law school cases which overturned Plessy.  The Supreme Court decided that 
separate but equal can never actually be equal, so Plessy was done away 
with.

However, almost all the law which governs our lives, rights and 
opportunities as blind people is openly based on the notion that separate 
but unequal treatment for us is acceptable.  We actually spend most of our 
time as blind people asking for separate but unequal treatment as an 
accommodation.  Women, blacks, and gays do not do this.  They are clear that 
separate is always unequal and they are having none of it.

Consider this.  When I was in law school an issue arose concerning women law 
school students.  For some reason there is a shower in one of the men's 
restrooms at the University of Chicago Law School.  The law school was built 
in the 50's before there were many if any women law students.  There are 
certainly women's restrooms, but none with a shower.

Men and women alike have taken in recent years to exercising while at school 
and some of them wish to shower after they run or exercise.  This is not a 
problem for men since there is a shower, but what can women do?  It was 
initially proposed that women could go over to the main campus to the gym 
and shower there.  This is about 4 blocks from the law school across the 
midway.  This was a no go as far as women were concerned.  They asked why 
should they have to go a total of 8 blocks round trip to shower when men 
could shower without leaving the law school?  At first the administration 
argued that since women needed to shower because they were already 
exercising then why wouldn't they be willing to go across campus since a 
little additional exercise was all that was being proposed?  However, the 
universal consensus of men and women alike based on common sense and basic 
fairness was that this was not acceptable.  It was viewed as pretty much 
obvious that it would be unfair to expect women to have to do more than men 
when they engaged in the same activity as men.  I dare say that those 
reading this would probably agree and I'm asking you to keep on that same 
fairness hat when you consider the following question.

Why is it fair for a blind person to have to take twice as long on an exam 
as a sighted person in order to obtain an equivalent valid score?  My claim 
is that it is not fair and women would not put up with it for a second. 
Women would tell you to figure out how to do it with out them taking on any 
burden which is greater than that of men.  They would be right.  As a matter 
of testing science and methodology it is possible to create an exam which 
blind people could take in the same length of time which would be equally 
valid, but it is not being done because we have permitted them to dump the 
burden of accommodation on us rather than requiring them to spend more money 
validating their standardized tests.

Would a professional quarterback ever be expected to play football in an 
important game with a center that he has never had the opportunity to 
practice with?  No.  This would be regarded as absurd and totally unfair. 
Yet we are expected to work with readers on exams that our entire futures 
and jobs are dependent upon; with readers who we've never met, tested or 
practiced with and who often can not even read English aloud accurately. 
Women would not put up with this.  Blacks would not put up with this.  We 
do, and the reason we do is that we feel powerless to do anything about it. 
We have come to think like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire, that we must 
depend on the kindness of strangers.

I worked for 5 years for a very large law firm, and we never ourselves, nor 
did we ever advise our clients to depend on the kindness of the other side. 
The parties on the other side wanted to win because they wanted their own 
way, and our clients also wanted to win because they wanted their own way. 
There was no kindness on either side and that is how it should be in matters 
of law.  As lawyers it is our mandated responsibility to zealously represent 
our clients which means it is our job to fight them with everything we have 
to make certain that our clients win.  That's what lawyers do.  We are 
priviledged to be lawyers.  We have one power that no one else has.  As all 
non lawyers must acknowledge, you can write thousands of letters to someone 
trying to get them to talk with you and they can throw them in the trash. 
You can light up their switchboard all day long with phone calls and they 
can tell the operator to say that they are not in.  However, we as lawyers 
have the power to force them to talk with us simply by serving a complaint 
on them and they will definitely talk with us in front of a judge.  They 
will not ignore that.

I'm sure I have offended some, bored most, and confused others.  But if you 
are a lawyer and I have struck a chord with you and reawakened for a moment 
a memory of why you went to law school to begin with, please contact me.  We 
have the knowledge and the power to make real change for blind people if we 
choose to come together like the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith. 
Thanks for reading and I hope to talk with you.

Warmest regards,
Dennis



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Tue Jan 12 02:32:55 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 21:32:55 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>
	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>
	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>
	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>

You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center, 
funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those same 
tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If the 
NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to 
attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way with 
NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States 
with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers. 
There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like 
saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to 
attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf 
resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a 
private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to 
makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually, 
state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state institutions. 
You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make up 
the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB center 
if his or her state has a blindness center.

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going to 
> do
> much.
>
> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them why 
> it
> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do 
> not
> work, they are not in your shoes.
>
> James
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does not
>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as the
>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other 
>> things
>> to be have the fees paid.
>>
>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>> 1237 P Street
>> Fresno ca 93721
>> 559-266-9237
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state 
>> agencies
>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend National
>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid 
>>> for
>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>> experienced?
>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> marc
>>>
>>>
>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>> www.ada.gov
>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have 
>>> little
>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>> system
>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>> consultant
>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While 
>>> consumers
>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>> their
>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other legislation
>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>> 1237 P Street
>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>> 559-266-9237
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>> please read and sign
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973/
>>>>     Quick
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan 12 02:44:53 2010
From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:44:53 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
Message-ID: <006701ca9331$3822b640$6601a8c0@server>

If you are a blind lawyer or second or third year law student please read on.  We are privileged to be lawyers and this is an appeal for you to join with me to begin formulating a long term legal strategy which will enable us as blind people to make the same kind of progress in kind and degree as other minority groups have made during the past 60 years.  This will involve each of us becoming experts on the legal histories of women, blacks, and gays, to understand the seminal cases and legislation which has led to their progress, and to develop a well thought out, cohesive legal theory for blind civil rights which uses the issues and cases of these other groups as precedent or persuasive support for our own analogous legal claims.  

When I was in law school I was fortunate to get to know one of the attorneys who worked on the Jackie Robinson law suit which integrated professional baseball.  He was a celebrated law professor and lawyer who participated in this law suit as a volunteer civil rights lawyer for B'nai B'rith.  Most of the successful civil rights cases which have led to the equality that blacks benefit from today were fought by the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith both together and separately.  Thurgood Marshal was also a critical global thinker and player with the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and it was those successes which led President Johnson to appoint him to the Supreme Court.  

My professor told me that the Jackie Robinson case was planned long before Jackie Robinson himself was identified as the best plaintiff for the case.  In the 40's and 50's a group of very brilliant lawyers and law professors talked and met together frequently to create a long term legal strategy which could shape and reorient the law to achieve civil rights progress for both blacks and Jews.  They carefully decided which cases needed to be brought ahead of other cases because obviously some cases will become seminal and have a larger impact on society than others.  

The decision to challenge professional baseballs prohibition against black players was one of these key strategic decisions.  Once it was decided to file this important case, they set out to find the right player to be the plaintiff.  He said that they knew they needed a player who was perfect in every way.  The player would need to be a great hitter and be pretty much qualified to play every other position on the field at a professional level.  The key was to have a player who was so unbelievable in every way so that any argument which could be made against hiring such a black player would be clearly irrational, and as such based purely on racial prejudice.  Beyond this, he said that they needed a player who could emotionally withstand the abuse which would be aimed at him by players and fans once the case was won and he was hired.  He was going to be the target of much hatred, he would not be permitted to stay in hotels with the rest of the team in many cities, he could not eat in the same restaurants as the rest of the team in many cities, and his life really could be at risk.  It was undeniable that this was going to take a very special person and they waited quite a while to file the suit until they found jus that right person, and that man was Jackie Robinson.  

The main point here is that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith didn't simply file cases willie nillie, but rather they chose cases carefully so as to move the courts along slowly but surely.  Filing a dubious case where there is a fifty fifty chance of losing would have been understood as potentially counter-productive.  Clearly if we as blind people win a case we have a precedent in our favor, but if we lose a case this is a setback because we have created a precedent that is contrary to our civil rights progress.  

I am confident that I will be attacked for this, but I believe that we have steadily lost ground over the past 30 years in both education and employment.  Obviously today's young blind adults can not know this because as is true for all people, our reality is shaped mostly by what we are experiencing.  Moreover there is a human prejudice that today must always be better than yesterday.  

but my claim is that those of us who were teenagers and young adults in the 60's and 70's had more opportunities than similarly situated blind people today.  When I took the PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE LSAT, and 4 bar exams, I was given fair exams by competent readers.  To have done less than this in those days would have been regarded as unthinkable and absurd by the agencies providing these tests because it would have been thought as simply unfair.  Today one is lucky if the reader provided by any of these agencies is barely literate.  

For me most of these exams predated the ADA and my claim is that the ADA is the problem.  I have dealt with a number of these agencies on behalf of disabled clients who have come to me for help, and I can tell you that the agencies think the ADA empowers them to simply give blind people a reader of the agencies choosing.  On numerous occasions I have been told by representatives of these agencies that all they are required to do is provide a reader of their choosing.  I point out that the ADA says "qualified reader," not just a reader.  Inevitably they then claim that all their readers are qualified even though they can not articulate what steps they have taken to verify this to be true.  Further discussion usually results in a very smug acknowledgement that they hold all the power and if we think we can do something about it then go ahead.  They are right.  We have become powerless, but that can change if those of us with law school educations come together and force a change.  

I would be curious to know how many blind students there are today at the 5 top ranked engineering schools in the U.S.  My guess is zero, but I hope I am wrong about this.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were a number of us.  I attended Stanford in Mechanical Engineering from 1977 to 1981 and all of my materials were provided to me in Braille including thousands of raised line drawings, and without these materials it would have been impossible for me to do the program.  One of my engineering professors was a retired Admiral from the Navy and one day he asked me if an optacon would be useful to me and if I would like one?  I told him that I had a little experience with it, but they cost $5000 and I wasn't sure that I could afford it or that it would be useful enough to justify the cost.  He had an interesting response.  He said, Dennis first of all Stanford is rich so they can afford it.  Second, he said, "Stanford admitted you and it is Stanford's responsibility to provide you what ever resources you need to be successful."  Has anyone heard any professors today say anything like this?  I think not.  On these forums I have read of a blind college student being told by a professor that he could not play in the school band because he was blind.  I would have thought that even the dumbest professor in the world could have gotten this right simply because of Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder.  I recall a law school dean at the University of Alaska stating that a blind applicant could not be admitted because blind people can not be lawyers.  

Another of my professors was Robert Hofstadter.  He had a Nobel prize in Physics.  I approached him near the midterm, and asked him if we could arrange for someone to read the midterm to me.  He immediately responded, Well why don't you come to my office the morning of the test and I will read it to you, which he did.  I have read of professors who now shoot their exams over to the disability services office to be read aloud by someone completely unable to read aloud.  The professor can't be bothered today.  When we finished Professor Hofstadter said that he wished he could do this with every student because he would then really know what students did and didn't understand and he would then know what he needed to spend additional time on in lectures.  

There was no disabled students office to function as an obstacle between my professors and me.  There was no disabled students office which had the responsibility to provide me with Braille or readers or anything else, and this was a plus not a minus because today these offices frequently fall down on the job and the student is left completely holding the bag.  No business would rely on a vendor which comes through only 60 or 70 per cent of the time, particularly when the business has no power over the vendor.  This is a formula for disaster and no sensible manager would do this yet blind students are now forced into this situation all the time.  Because of this lack of accountability by disabled students offices I have recently read a discussion where a blind student is asking how he can handle a college math class using readers because he doesn't have a Braille math book.  No sighted student would be expected to do college math without a print book and they can see the board.  During the past 20 years I am confident that we have spent tens of millions of dollars on disability student offices and the students now have less than we had in the 70's without all this money having been spent.  Why?

I  would argue that we as lawyers need to rethink our current situation and get a handle on the legal twists and turns that brought us here.  My thinking is that we should begin by revisiting Plessy v. Ferguson an the 2 law school cases which overturned Plessy.  The Supreme Court decided that separate but equal can never actually be equal, so Plessy was done away with.  

However, almost all the law which governs our lives, rights and opportunities as blind people is openly based on the notion that separate but unequal treatment for us is acceptable.  We actually spend most of our time as blind people asking for separate but unequal treatment as an accommodation.  Women, blacks, and gays do not do this.  They are clear that separate is always unequal and they are having none of it.  

Consider this.  When I was in law school an issue arose concerning women law school students.  For some reason there is a shower in one of the men's restrooms at the University of Chicago Law School.  The law school was built in the 50's before there were many if any women law students.  There are certainly women's restrooms, but none with a shower.  

Men and women alike have taken in recent years to exercising while at school and some of them wish to shower after they run or exercise.  This is not a problem for men since there is a shower, but what can women do?  It was initially proposed that women could go over to the main campus to the gym and shower there.  This is about 4 blocks from the law school across the midway.  This was a no go as far as women were concerned.  They asked why should they have to go a total of 8 blocks round trip to shower when men could shower without leaving the law school?  At first the administration argued that since women needed to shower because they were already exercising then why wouldn't they be willing to go across campus since a little additional exercise was all that was being proposed?  However, the universal consensus of men and women alike based on common sense and basic fairness was that this was not acceptable.  It was viewed as pretty much obvious that it would be unfair to expect women to have to do more than men when they engaged in the same activity as men.  I dare say that those reading this would probably agree and I'm asking you to keep on that same fairness hat when you consider the following question.

Why is it fair for a blind person to have to take twice as long on an exam as a sighted person in order to obtain an equivalent valid score?  My claim is that it is not fair and women would not put up with it for a second.  Women would tell you to figure out how to do it with out them taking on any burden which is greater than that of men.  They would be right.  As a matter of testing science and methodology it is possible to create an exam which blind people could take in the same length of time which would be equally valid, but it is not being done because we have permitted them to dump the burden of accommodation on us rather than requiring them to spend more money validating their standardized tests.  

Would a professional quarterback ever be expected to play football in an important game with a center that he has never had the opportunity to practice with?  No.  This would be regarded as absurd and totally unfair.  Yet we are expected to work with readers on exams that our entire futures and jobs are dependent upon; with readers who we've never met, tested or practiced with and who often can not even read English aloud accurately.  Women would not put up with this.  Blacks would not put up with this.  We do, and the reason we do is that we feel powerless to do anything about it.  We have come to think like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire, that we must depend on the kindness of strangers.  

I worked for 5 years for a very large law firm, and we never ourselves, nor did we ever advise our clients to depend on the kindness of the other side.  The parties on the other side wanted to win because they wanted their own way, and our clients also wanted to win because they wanted their own way.  There was no kindness on either side and that is how it should be in matters of law.  As lawyers it is our mandated responsibility to zealously represent our clients which means it is our job to fight them with everything we have to make certain that our clients win.  That's what lawyers do.  We are privileged to be lawyers.  We have one power that no one else has.  As all non lawyers must acknowledge, you can write thousands of letters to someone trying to get them to talk with you and they can throw them in the trash.  You can light up their switchboard all day long with phone calls and they can tell the operator to say that they are not in.  However, we as lawyers have the power to force them to talk with us simply by serving a complaint on them and they will definitely talk with us in front of a judge.  They will not ignore that.

I'm sure I have offended some, bored most, and confused others.  But if you are a lawyer and I have struck a chord with you and reawakened for a moment a memory of why you went to law school to begin with, please contact me.  We have the knowledge and the power to make real change for blind people if we choose to come together like the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith.  Thanks for reading and I hope to talk with you.

Warmest regards,
Dennis

From JFreeh at nfb.org  Tue Jan 12 02:49:04 2010
From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh,
	Jessica)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:49:04 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness Organizations and Arizona State University
 Resolve Litigation Over Kindle
Message-ID: <auto-000134842778@mailfront1.g2host.com>


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

<mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org>cdanielsen at nfb.org



Mitch Pomerantz, President

American Council of the Blind

(626) 372-5150 (Cell)

<mailto:mitch.pomerantz at earthlink.net>mitch.pomerantz at earthlink.net



Department of Justice

Office of Public Affairs

(202) 514-2007



Sharon Keeler

Arizona State University

(480) 965-4012 (Office)

(602) 540-8453 (Cell)

<mailto:sharon.keeler at asu.edu>sharon.keeler at asu.edu





Blindness Organizations and Arizona State University

Resolve Litigation Over Kindle



Phoenix, Arizona (January 11, 2010): The National Federation of the 
Blind (NFB), the American Council of the Blind (ACB), and Arizona 
State University (ASU), today announced a settlement agreement 
resolving litigation filed by NFB and ACB against the Arizona Board 
of Regents (ABOR) and ASU.  The lawsuit arose from the university's 
participation in a pilot program using the Kindle DX, a dedicated 
device for reading electronic books, or e-books, developed by 
Amazon.com, Inc.  The NFB and ACB alleged that the Kindle DX was 
inaccessible to blind students and thus violated federal law.  ABOR 
and ASU denied and continue to deny any violations of the law.



The settlement agreement among the parties was reached in light of 
several factors, including: (1) ASU's commitment to providing access 
to all programs and facilities for students with disabilities, 
including students who are blind or have low vision; (2) the fact 
that the pilot program will end in the Spring of 2010; (3) Amazon and 
others are making improvements to and progress in the accessibility 
of e-book readers; and (4) the university's agreement that should ASU 
deploy e-book readers in future classes over the next two years, it 
will strive to use devices that are accessible to the blind.



The United States Department of Justice is also a party to the 
agreement, which does not involve the payment of any damages or 
attorney's fees or costs.



Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: 
"The National Federation of the Blind is pleased with this 
settlement, which we believe will help to ensure that new 
technologies create new opportunities for blind students rather than 
new barriers."



Mitch Pomerantz, President of the American Council of the Blind, 
expressed support by commenting: "I believe this settlement between 
Arizona State University and the two major national consumer-advocacy 
organizations of blind and visually impaired persons will encourage 
the industry to develop fully accessible e-book readers in the near future."



###


From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan 12 03:27:59 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:27:59 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
In-Reply-To: <005501ca932f$b813c5d0$6601a8c0@server>
References: <005501ca932f$b813c5d0$6601a8c0@server>
Message-ID: <231005B4BA044A899BE51EA1EF8F85A5@spike>

            Dennis, you raise many valid points and I although not a lawyer 
have come to many of the same realizations over the years. I attended 
University of Michigan both for my undergraduate degree and Master's degree 
in social work in the mid 70's through the early 80's. I also as a high 
school student was responsible for procuring many of my own text books and 
in college recruiting and supervising readers as the Disabled Student 
Services program at that time only provided lists of students that were 
interested in reading. Much of this reading was highly technical including 
legal research at a time when it was done in the stacks of the law library. 
Since then much of my work as a social worker and paralegal have been in an 
advocacy capacity. Being also active in the gay community I too have noticed 
the differences in civil rights action that I deal with in the gay community 
as compared to the blind community. As president of a local NFB chapter I am 
contacted frequently by blind people that experience discrimination or a 
lack of services because of unmet needs. Many of these people do not have a 
clue as to how to collectively or individually advocate to bring about 
individual or system wide change. I have addressed many of these issues on 
this and other list serves with varying degrees of success and I hope this 
results in a stronger sense of advocacy both by lawyers and nonlawyers to 
bring about acceptable standards. Unfortunately with the ADA a mindset has 
been created where a "one shoe fits all" mentality has been created although 
the law does not require disabled students to accept all services. When I 
returned to school about ten years ago to get my paralegal certificate the 
community college staff in the disabled student services program were 
shocked that I did not rely on them for services other than reading tests. I 
found that the qualifications of the readers varied and as I had done in the 
employment world just dealt with it not requiring any additional extra time 
although it was given. Perhaps this will stimulate other discussion on this 
topic.
Chuck Krugman, M.s.W., Paralegal
President NFB Central Valley Chapter
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 6:34 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys


> If you are a blind lawyer or second or third year law student please read 
> on.  We are pribeleged to be lawyers and this is an appeal for you to join 
> with me to begin formulating a long term legal strategy which will enable 
> us as blind people to make the same kind of progress in kind and degree as 
> other minority groups have made during the past 60 years.  This will 
> involve each of us becoming experts on the legal histories of women, 
> blacks, and gays, to understand the seminal cases and legislation which 
> has led to their progress, and to develop a well thought out, cohesive 
> legal theory for blind civil rights which uses the issues and cases of 
> these other groups as precedent or persuasive support for our own 
> analogous legal claims.
>
> When I was in law school I was fortunate to get to know one of the 
> attorneys who worked on the Jackie Robinson law suit which integrated 
> professional baseball.  He was a celebrated law professor and lawyer who 
> participated in this law suit as a volunteer civil rights lawyer for B'nai 
> B'rith.  Most of the successful civil rights cases which have led to the 
> equality that blacks benefit from today were fought by the NAACP Legal 
> Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith both together and separately.  Thergood 
> Marshal was also a critical global thinker and player with the NAACP Legal 
> Defense Fund and it was those successes which led President Johnson to 
> appoint him to the Supreme Court.
>
> My professor told me that the Jackie Robinson case was planned long before 
> Jackie Robinson himself was identified as the best plaintiff for the case. 
> In the 40's and 50's a group of very brilliant lawyers and law professors 
> talked and met together frequently to create a long term legal strategy 
> which could shape and reorient the law to achieve civil rights progress 
> for both blacks and Jews.  They carefully decided which cases needed to be 
> brought ahead of other cases because obviously some cases will become 
> seminal and have a larger impact on society than others.
>
> The decision to challenge professional baseballs prohibition against black 
> players was one of these key strategic decisions.  Once it was decided to 
> file this important case, they set out to find the right player to be the 
> plaintiff.  He said that they knew they needed a player who was perfect in 
> every way.  The player would need to be a great hitter and be pretty much 
> qualified to play every other position on the field at a professional 
> level. The key was to have a player who was so unbelievable in every way 
> so that any argument which could be made against hiring such a black 
> player would be clearly irrational, and as such based purely on racial 
> prejudice.  Beyond this, he said that they needed a player who could 
> emotionally withstand the abuse which would be aimed at him by players and 
> fans once the case was won and he was hired.  He was going to be the 
> target of much hatred, he would not be permitted to stay in hotels with 
> the rest of the team in many cities, he could not eat in the same 
> restaurants as the rest of the team in many cities, and his life really 
> could be at risk.  It was undeniable that this was going to take a very 
> special person and they waited quite a while to file the suit until they 
> found jus that right person, and that man was Jackie Robinson.
>
> The main point here is that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith 
> didn't simply file cases willie nillie, but rather they chose cases 
> carefully so as to move the courts along slowly but surely.  Filing a 
> dubious case where there is a fifty fifty chance of losing would have been 
> understood as potentially counter-productive.  Clearly if we as blind 
> people win a case we have a precedent in our favor, but if we lose a case 
> this is a setback because we have created a precedent that is contrary to 
> our civil rights progress.
>
> I am confident that I will be attacked for this, but I believe that we 
> have steadily lost ground over the past 30 years in both education and 
> employment.  Obviously today's young blind adults can not know this 
> because as is true for all people, our reality is shaped mostly by what we 
> are experiencing.  Moreover there is a human prejudice that today must 
> always be better than yesterday.
>
> but my claim is that those of us who were teenagers and young adults in 
> the 60's and 70's had more opportunities than similarly situated blind 
> people today.  When I took the PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE LSAT, and 4 bar exams, 
> I was given fair exams by competent readers.  To have done less than this 
> in those days would have been regarded as unthinkable and absurd by the 
> agencies providing these tests because it would have been thought as 
> simply unfair. Today one is lucky if the reader provided by any of these 
> agencies is barely literate.
>
> For me most of these exams predated the ADA and my claim is that the ADA 
> is the problem.  I have dealt with a number of these agencies on behalf of 
> disabled clients who have come to me for help, and I can tell you that the 
> agencies think the ADA empowers them to simply give blind people a reader 
> of the agencies choosing.  On numerous occasions I have been told by 
> representatives of these agencies that all they are required to do is 
> provide a reader of their choosing.  I point out that the ADA says 
> "qualified reader," not just a reader.  Inevitably they then claim that 
> all their readers are qualified even though they can not articulate what 
> steps they have taken to verify this to be true.  Further discussion 
> usually results in a very smug acknowledgement that they hold all the 
> power and if we think we can do something about it then go ahead.  They 
> are right.  We have become powerless, but that can change if those of us 
> with law school educations come together and force a change.
>
> I would be curious to know how many blind students there are today at the 
> 5 top ranked engineering schools in the U.S.  My guess is zero, but I hope 
> I am wrong about this.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were a number 
> of us.  I attended Stanford in Mechanical Engineering from 1977 to 1981 
> and all of my materials were provided to me in Braille including thousands 
> of raised line drawings, and without these materials it would have been 
> impossible for me to do the program.  One of my engineering professors was 
> a retired Admiral from the Navy and one day he asked me if an optacon 
> would be useful to me and if I would like one?  I told him that I had a 
> little experience with it, but they cost $5000 and I wasn't sure that I 
> could afford it or that it would be useful enough to justify the cost.  He 
> had an interesting response.  He said, Dennis first of all Stanford is 
> rich so they can afford it.  Second, he said, "Stanford admitted you and 
> it is Stanford's responsibility to provide you what ever resources you 
> need to be successful."  Has anyone heard any professors today say 
> anything like this? I think not.  On these forums I have read of a blind 
> college student being told by a professor that he could not play in the 
> school band because he was blind.  I would have thought that even the 
> dumbest professor in the world could have gotten this right simply because 
> of Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder.  I recall a law school dean at the 
> University of Alaska stating that a blind applicant could not be admitted 
> because blind people can not be lawyers.
>
> Another of my professors was Robert Hofstadter.  He had a Nobel prize in 
> Physics.  I approached him near the midterm, and asked him if we could 
> arrange for someone to read the midterm to me.  He immediately responded, 
> Well why don't you come to my office the morning of the test and I will 
> read it to you, which he did.  I have read of professors who now shoot 
> their exams over to the disability services office to be read aloud by 
> someone completely unable to read aloud.  The professor can't be bothered 
> today. When we finished Professor Hofstadter said that he wished he could 
> do this with every student because he would then really know what students 
> did and didn't understand and he would then know what he needed to spend 
> additional time on in lectures.
>
> There was no disabled students office to function as an obstacle between 
> my professors and me.  There was no disabled students office which had the 
> responsibility to provide me with Braille or readers or anything else, and 
> this was a plus not a minus because today these offices frequently fall 
> down on the job and the student is left completely holding the bag.  No 
> business would rely on a vendor which comes through only 60 or 70 per cent 
> of the time, particularly when the business has no power over the vendor. 
> This is a formula for disaster and no sensible manager would do this yet 
> blind students are now forced into this situation all the time.  Because 
> of this lack of accountability by disabled students offices I have 
> recently read a discussion where a blind student is asking how he can 
> handle a college math class using readers because he doesn't have a 
> Braille math book.  No sighted student would be expected to do college 
> math without a print book and they can see the board.  During the past 20 
> years I am confident that we have spent tens of millions of dollars on 
> disability student offices and the students now have less than we had in 
> the 70's without all this money having been spent.  Why?
>
> I  would argue that we as lawyers need to rethink our current situation 
> and get a handle on the legal twists and turns that brought us here.  My 
> thinking is that we should begin by revisiting Plessy v. Ferguson an the 2 
> law school cases which overturned Plessy.  The Supreme Court decided that 
> separate but equal can never actually be equal, so Plessy was done away 
> with.
>
> However, almost all the law which governs our lives, rights and 
> opportunities as blind people is openly based on the notion that separate 
> but unequal treatment for us is acceptable.  We actually spend most of our 
> time as blind people asking for separate but unequal treatment as an 
> accommodation.  Women, blacks, and gays do not do this.  They are clear 
> that separate is always unequal and they are having none of it.
>
> Consider this.  When I was in law school an issue arose concerning women 
> law school students.  For some reason there is a shower in one of the 
> men's restrooms at the University of Chicago Law School.  The law school 
> was built in the 50's before there were many if any women law students. 
> There are certainly women's restrooms, but none with a shower.
>
> Men and women alike have taken in recent years to exercising while at 
> school and some of them wish to shower after they run or exercise.  This 
> is not a problem for men since there is a shower, but what can women do? 
> It was initially proposed that women could go over to the main campus to 
> the gym and shower there.  This is about 4 blocks from the law school 
> across the midway.  This was a no go as far as women were concerned.  They 
> asked why should they have to go a total of 8 blocks round trip to shower 
> when men could shower without leaving the law school?  At first the 
> administration argued that since women needed to shower because they were 
> already exercising then why wouldn't they be willing to go across campus 
> since a little additional exercise was all that was being proposed? 
> However, the universal consensus of men and women alike based on common 
> sense and basic fairness was that this was not acceptable.  It was viewed 
> as pretty much obvious that it would be unfair to expect women to have to 
> do more than men when they engaged in the same activity as men.  I dare 
> say that those reading this would probably agree and I'm asking you to 
> keep on that same fairness hat when you consider the following question.
>
> Why is it fair for a blind person to have to take twice as long on an exam 
> as a sighted person in order to obtain an equivalent valid score?  My 
> claim is that it is not fair and women would not put up with it for a 
> second. Women would tell you to figure out how to do it with out them 
> taking on any burden which is greater than that of men.  They would be 
> right.  As a matter of testing science and methodology it is possible to 
> create an exam which blind people could take in the same length of time 
> which would be equally valid, but it is not being done because we have 
> permitted them to dump the burden of accommodation on us rather than 
> requiring them to spend more money validating their standardized tests.
>
> Would a professional quarterback ever be expected to play football in an 
> important game with a center that he has never had the opportunity to 
> practice with?  No.  This would be regarded as absurd and totally unfair. 
> Yet we are expected to work with readers on exams that our entire futures 
> and jobs are dependent upon; with readers who we've never met, tested or 
> practiced with and who often can not even read English aloud accurately. 
> Women would not put up with this.  Blacks would not put up with this.  We 
> do, and the reason we do is that we feel powerless to do anything about 
> it. We have come to think like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire, that 
> we must depend on the kindness of strangers.
>
> I worked for 5 years for a very large law firm, and we never ourselves, 
> nor did we ever advise our clients to depend on the kindness of the other 
> side. The parties on the other side wanted to win because they wanted 
> their own way, and our clients also wanted to win because they wanted 
> their own way. There was no kindness on either side and that is how it 
> should be in matters of law.  As lawyers it is our mandated responsibility 
> to zealously represent our clients which means it is our job to fight them 
> with everything we have to make certain that our clients win.  That's what 
> lawyers do.  We are priviledged to be lawyers.  We have one power that no 
> one else has.  As all non lawyers must acknowledge, you can write 
> thousands of letters to someone trying to get them to talk with you and 
> they can throw them in the trash. You can light up their switchboard all 
> day long with phone calls and they can tell the operator to say that they 
> are not in.  However, we as lawyers have the power to force them to talk 
> with us simply by serving a complaint on them and they will definitely 
> talk with us in front of a judge.  They will not ignore that.
>
> I'm sure I have offended some, bored most, and confused others.  But if 
> you are a lawyer and I have struck a chord with you and reawakened for a 
> moment a memory of why you went to law school to begin with, please 
> contact me.  We have the knowledge and the power to make real change for 
> blind people if we choose to come together like the NAACP Legal Defense 
> Fund and B'nai B'rith. Thanks for reading and I hope to talk with you.
>
> Warmest regards,
> Dennis
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 09:03:11 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 03:03:11 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>
Message-ID: <137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com>

How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local NFB
chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.  There
are some great points and there are some very strange ones.  

I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They are
tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.

So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center, 
funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those same 
tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If the 
NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to 
attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way with 
NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States 
with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers. 
There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like 
saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to 
attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf 
resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a 
private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to 
makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually, 
state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state institutions.

You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make up 
the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB center 
if his or her state has a blindness center.

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going to 
> do
> much.
>
> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them why 
> it
> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do 
> not
> work, they are not in your shoes.
>
> James
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does not
>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as the
>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other 
>> things
>> to be have the fees paid.
>>
>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>> 1237 P Street
>> Fresno ca 93721
>> 559-266-9237
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state 
>> agencies
>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend National
>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid 
>>> for
>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>> experienced?
>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> marc
>>>
>>>
>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>> www.ada.gov
>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have 
>>> little
>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>> system
>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>> consultant
>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While 
>>> consumers
>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>> their
>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other legislation
>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>> 1237 P Street
>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>> 559-266-9237
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>> please read and sign
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
/
>>>>     Quick
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
al.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
al.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
sightbb.com


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From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov  Tue Jan 12 15:33:03 2010
From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 08:33:03 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
In-Reply-To: <231005B4BA044A899BE51EA1EF8F85A5@spike>
References: <005501ca932f$b813c5d0$6601a8c0@server>
	<231005B4BA044A899BE51EA1EF8F85A5@spike>
Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D69E2@EVS02.central.pima.gov>

Although not yet totally blind, I also am interested in this...in the
not-quite one year since I have gone from just myopic to legally blind,
I have been showered with suggestions from otherwise intelligent and
well meaning members of the legal profession such as "how much longer
will they let you keep working?" and "why not quit and collect
disability?"  I have also been told that a reader would be a better
solution, rather than the purchase of adaptive equipment to allow me to
continue to work independently - fortunately, the governmental agency by
whom I am employed quickly accepted my desire to remain as independent
as possible, but my point is that the situation is equally frustrating
for those of us who retain some limited vision and wish to use what
little is left.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Monday, 11 January, 2010 8:28 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys

            Dennis, you raise many valid points and I although not a
lawyer 
have come to many of the same realizations over the years. I attended 
University of Michigan both for my undergraduate degree and Master's
degree 
in social work in the mid 70's through the early 80's. I also as a high 
school student was responsible for procuring many of my own text books
and 
in college recruiting and supervising readers as the Disabled Student 
Services program at that time only provided lists of students that were 
interested in reading. Much of this reading was highly technical
including 
legal research at a time when it was done in the stacks of the law
library. 
Since then much of my work as a social worker and paralegal have been in
an 
advocacy capacity. Being also active in the gay community I too have
noticed 
the differences in civil rights action that I deal with in the gay
community 
as compared to the blind community. As president of a local NFB chapter
I am 
contacted frequently by blind people that experience discrimination or a

lack of services because of unmet needs. Many of these people do not
have a 
clue as to how to collectively or individually advocate to bring about 
individual or system wide change. I have addressed many of these issues
on 
this and other list serves with varying degrees of success and I hope
this 
results in a stronger sense of advocacy both by lawyers and nonlawyers
to 
bring about acceptable standards. Unfortunately with the ADA a mindset
has 
been created where a "one shoe fits all" mentality has been created
although 
the law does not require disabled students to accept all services. When
I 
returned to school about ten years ago to get my paralegal certificate
the 
community college staff in the disabled student services program were 
shocked that I did not rely on them for services other than reading
tests. I 
found that the qualifications of the readers varied and as I had done in
the 
employment world just dealt with it not requiring any additional extra
time 
although it was given. Perhaps this will stimulate other discussion on
this 
topic.
Chuck Krugman, M.s.W., Paralegal
President NFB Central Valley Chapter
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 6:34 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys


> If you are a blind lawyer or second or third year law student please
read 
> on.  We are pribeleged to be lawyers and this is an appeal for you to
join 
> with me to begin formulating a long term legal strategy which will
enable 
> us as blind people to make the same kind of progress in kind and
degree as 
> other minority groups have made during the past 60 years.  This will 
> involve each of us becoming experts on the legal histories of women, 
> blacks, and gays, to understand the seminal cases and legislation
which 
> has led to their progress, and to develop a well thought out, cohesive

> legal theory for blind civil rights which uses the issues and cases of

> these other groups as precedent or persuasive support for our own 
> analogous legal claims.
>
> When I was in law school I was fortunate to get to know one of the 
> attorneys who worked on the Jackie Robinson law suit which integrated 
> professional baseball.  He was a celebrated law professor and lawyer
who 
> participated in this law suit as a volunteer civil rights lawyer for
B'nai 
> B'rith.  Most of the successful civil rights cases which have led to
the 
> equality that blacks benefit from today were fought by the NAACP Legal

> Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith both together and separately.  Thergood 
> Marshal was also a critical global thinker and player with the NAACP
Legal 
> Defense Fund and it was those successes which led President Johnson to

> appoint him to the Supreme Court.
>
> My professor told me that the Jackie Robinson case was planned long
before 
> Jackie Robinson himself was identified as the best plaintiff for the
case. 
> In the 40's and 50's a group of very brilliant lawyers and law
professors 
> talked and met together frequently to create a long term legal
strategy 
> which could shape and reorient the law to achieve civil rights
progress 
> for both blacks and Jews.  They carefully decided which cases needed
to be 
> brought ahead of other cases because obviously some cases will become 
> seminal and have a larger impact on society than others.
>
> The decision to challenge professional baseballs prohibition against
black 
> players was one of these key strategic decisions.  Once it was decided
to 
> file this important case, they set out to find the right player to be
the 
> plaintiff.  He said that they knew they needed a player who was
perfect in 
> every way.  The player would need to be a great hitter and be pretty
much 
> qualified to play every other position on the field at a professional 
> level. The key was to have a player who was so unbelievable in every
way 
> so that any argument which could be made against hiring such a black 
> player would be clearly irrational, and as such based purely on racial

> prejudice.  Beyond this, he said that they needed a player who could 
> emotionally withstand the abuse which would be aimed at him by players
and 
> fans once the case was won and he was hired.  He was going to be the 
> target of much hatred, he would not be permitted to stay in hotels
with 
> the rest of the team in many cities, he could not eat in the same 
> restaurants as the rest of the team in many cities, and his life
really 
> could be at risk.  It was undeniable that this was going to take a
very 
> special person and they waited quite a while to file the suit until
they 
> found jus that right person, and that man was Jackie Robinson.
>
> The main point here is that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai
B'rith 
> didn't simply file cases willie nillie, but rather they chose cases 
> carefully so as to move the courts along slowly but surely.  Filing a 
> dubious case where there is a fifty fifty chance of losing would have
been 
> understood as potentially counter-productive.  Clearly if we as blind 
> people win a case we have a precedent in our favor, but if we lose a
case 
> this is a setback because we have created a precedent that is contrary
to 
> our civil rights progress.
>
> I am confident that I will be attacked for this, but I believe that we

> have steadily lost ground over the past 30 years in both education and

> employment.  Obviously today's young blind adults can not know this 
> because as is true for all people, our reality is shaped mostly by
what we 
> are experiencing.  Moreover there is a human prejudice that today must

> always be better than yesterday.
>
> but my claim is that those of us who were teenagers and young adults
in 
> the 60's and 70's had more opportunities than similarly situated blind

> people today.  When I took the PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE LSAT, and 4 bar
exams, 
> I was given fair exams by competent readers.  To have done less than
this 
> in those days would have been regarded as unthinkable and absurd by
the 
> agencies providing these tests because it would have been thought as 
> simply unfair. Today one is lucky if the reader provided by any of
these 
> agencies is barely literate.
>
> For me most of these exams predated the ADA and my claim is that the
ADA 
> is the problem.  I have dealt with a number of these agencies on
behalf of 
> disabled clients who have come to me for help, and I can tell you that
the 
> agencies think the ADA empowers them to simply give blind people a
reader 
> of the agencies choosing.  On numerous occasions I have been told by 
> representatives of these agencies that all they are required to do is 
> provide a reader of their choosing.  I point out that the ADA says 
> "qualified reader," not just a reader.  Inevitably they then claim
that 
> all their readers are qualified even though they can not articulate
what 
> steps they have taken to verify this to be true.  Further discussion 
> usually results in a very smug acknowledgement that they hold all the 
> power and if we think we can do something about it then go ahead.
They 
> are right.  We have become powerless, but that can change if those of
us 
> with law school educations come together and force a change.
>
> I would be curious to know how many blind students there are today at
the 
> 5 top ranked engineering schools in the U.S.  My guess is zero, but I
hope 
> I am wrong about this.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were a
number 
> of us.  I attended Stanford in Mechanical Engineering from 1977 to
1981 
> and all of my materials were provided to me in Braille including
thousands 
> of raised line drawings, and without these materials it would have
been 
> impossible for me to do the program.  One of my engineering professors
was 
> a retired Admiral from the Navy and one day he asked me if an optacon 
> would be useful to me and if I would like one?  I told him that I had
a 
> little experience with it, but they cost $5000 and I wasn't sure that
I 
> could afford it or that it would be useful enough to justify the cost.
He 
> had an interesting response.  He said, Dennis first of all Stanford is

> rich so they can afford it.  Second, he said, "Stanford admitted you
and 
> it is Stanford's responsibility to provide you what ever resources you

> need to be successful."  Has anyone heard any professors today say 
> anything like this? I think not.  On these forums I have read of a
blind 
> college student being told by a professor that he could not play in
the 
> school band because he was blind.  I would have thought that even the 
> dumbest professor in the world could have gotten this right simply
because 
> of Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder.  I recall a law school dean at the 
> University of Alaska stating that a blind applicant could not be
admitted 
> because blind people can not be lawyers.
>
> Another of my professors was Robert Hofstadter.  He had a Nobel prize
in 
> Physics.  I approached him near the midterm, and asked him if we could

> arrange for someone to read the midterm to me.  He immediately
responded, 
> Well why don't you come to my office the morning of the test and I
will 
> read it to you, which he did.  I have read of professors who now shoot

> their exams over to the disability services office to be read aloud by

> someone completely unable to read aloud.  The professor can't be
bothered 
> today. When we finished Professor Hofstadter said that he wished he
could 
> do this with every student because he would then really know what
students 
> did and didn't understand and he would then know what he needed to
spend 
> additional time on in lectures.
>
> There was no disabled students office to function as an obstacle
between 
> my professors and me.  There was no disabled students office which had
the 
> responsibility to provide me with Braille or readers or anything else,
and 
> this was a plus not a minus because today these offices frequently
fall 
> down on the job and the student is left completely holding the bag.
No 
> business would rely on a vendor which comes through only 60 or 70 per
cent 
> of the time, particularly when the business has no power over the
vendor. 
> This is a formula for disaster and no sensible manager would do this
yet 
> blind students are now forced into this situation all the time.
Because 
> of this lack of accountability by disabled students offices I have 
> recently read a discussion where a blind student is asking how he can 
> handle a college math class using readers because he doesn't have a 
> Braille math book.  No sighted student would be expected to do college

> math without a print book and they can see the board.  During the past
20 
> years I am confident that we have spent tens of millions of dollars on

> disability student offices and the students now have less than we had
in 
> the 70's without all this money having been spent.  Why?
>
> I  would argue that we as lawyers need to rethink our current
situation 
> and get a handle on the legal twists and turns that brought us here.
My 
> thinking is that we should begin by revisiting Plessy v. Ferguson an
the 2 
> law school cases which overturned Plessy.  The Supreme Court decided
that 
> separate but equal can never actually be equal, so Plessy was done
away 
> with.
>
> However, almost all the law which governs our lives, rights and 
> opportunities as blind people is openly based on the notion that
separate 
> but unequal treatment for us is acceptable.  We actually spend most of
our 
> time as blind people asking for separate but unequal treatment as an 
> accommodation.  Women, blacks, and gays do not do this.  They are
clear 
> that separate is always unequal and they are having none of it.
>
> Consider this.  When I was in law school an issue arose concerning
women 
> law school students.  For some reason there is a shower in one of the 
> men's restrooms at the University of Chicago Law School.  The law
school 
> was built in the 50's before there were many if any women law
students. 
> There are certainly women's restrooms, but none with a shower.
>
> Men and women alike have taken in recent years to exercising while at 
> school and some of them wish to shower after they run or exercise.
This 
> is not a problem for men since there is a shower, but what can women
do? 
> It was initially proposed that women could go over to the main campus
to 
> the gym and shower there.  This is about 4 blocks from the law school 
> across the midway.  This was a no go as far as women were concerned.
They 
> asked why should they have to go a total of 8 blocks round trip to
shower 
> when men could shower without leaving the law school?  At first the 
> administration argued that since women needed to shower because they
were 
> already exercising then why wouldn't they be willing to go across
campus 
> since a little additional exercise was all that was being proposed? 
> However, the universal consensus of men and women alike based on
common 
> sense and basic fairness was that this was not acceptable.  It was
viewed 
> as pretty much obvious that it would be unfair to expect women to have
to 
> do more than men when they engaged in the same activity as men.  I
dare 
> say that those reading this would probably agree and I'm asking you to

> keep on that same fairness hat when you consider the following
question.
>
> Why is it fair for a blind person to have to take twice as long on an
exam 
> as a sighted person in order to obtain an equivalent valid score?  My 
> claim is that it is not fair and women would not put up with it for a 
> second. Women would tell you to figure out how to do it with out them 
> taking on any burden which is greater than that of men.  They would be

> right.  As a matter of testing science and methodology it is possible
to 
> create an exam which blind people could take in the same length of
time 
> which would be equally valid, but it is not being done because we have

> permitted them to dump the burden of accommodation on us rather than 
> requiring them to spend more money validating their standardized
tests.
>
> Would a professional quarterback ever be expected to play football in
an 
> important game with a center that he has never had the opportunity to 
> practice with?  No.  This would be regarded as absurd and totally
unfair. 
> Yet we are expected to work with readers on exams that our entire
futures 
> and jobs are dependent upon; with readers who we've never met, tested
or 
> practiced with and who often can not even read English aloud
accurately. 
> Women would not put up with this.  Blacks would not put up with this.
We 
> do, and the reason we do is that we feel powerless to do anything
about 
> it. We have come to think like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire,
that 
> we must depend on the kindness of strangers.
>
> I worked for 5 years for a very large law firm, and we never
ourselves, 
> nor did we ever advise our clients to depend on the kindness of the
other 
> side. The parties on the other side wanted to win because they wanted 
> their own way, and our clients also wanted to win because they wanted 
> their own way. There was no kindness on either side and that is how it

> should be in matters of law.  As lawyers it is our mandated
responsibility 
> to zealously represent our clients which means it is our job to fight
them 
> with everything we have to make certain that our clients win.  That's
what 
> lawyers do.  We are priviledged to be lawyers.  We have one power that
no 
> one else has.  As all non lawyers must acknowledge, you can write 
> thousands of letters to someone trying to get them to talk with you
and 
> they can throw them in the trash. You can light up their switchboard
all 
> day long with phone calls and they can tell the operator to say that
they 
> are not in.  However, we as lawyers have the power to force them to
talk 
> with us simply by serving a complaint on them and they will definitely

> talk with us in front of a judge.  They will not ignore that.
>
> I'm sure I have offended some, bored most, and confused others.  But
if 
> you are a lawyer and I have struck a chord with you and reawakened for
a 
> moment a memory of why you went to law school to begin with, please 
> contact me.  We have the knowledge and the power to make real change
for 
> blind people if we choose to come together like the NAACP Legal
Defense 
> Fund and B'nai B'rith. Thanks for reading and I hope to talk with you.
>
> Warmest regards,
> Dennis
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
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global.net 


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From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Tue Jan 12 15:39:38 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:39:38 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>
	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>
	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>
	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>
	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com>
Message-ID: <1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>

With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local NFB
> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.  There
> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>
> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They 
> are
> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>
> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those 
> same
> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If the
> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way with
> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state 
> institutions.
>
> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make up
> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB 
> center
> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going to
>> do
>> much.
>>
>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them why
>> it
>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>> not
>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does 
>>> not
>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as 
>>> the
>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>> things
>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>
>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>> 1237 P Street
>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>> 559-266-9237
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>> agencies
>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend 
>>>> National
>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid
>>>> for
>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>> experienced?
>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> marc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>> little
>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>> system
>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>> consultant
>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>> consumers
>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>> their
>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other 
>>>> legislation
>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
> /
>>>>>     Quick
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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> 01/11/10
> 07:35:00
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>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
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> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


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From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 16:35:20 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:35:20 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com>
	<1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>
Message-ID: <13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>

What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.

And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is no
money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local NFB
> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.  There
> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>
> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They 
> are
> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>
> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those 
> same
> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If the
> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way with
> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state 
> institutions.
>
> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make up
> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB 
> center
> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going to
>> do
>> much.
>>
>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them why
>> it
>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>> not
>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does 
>>> not
>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as 
>>> the
>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>> things
>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>
>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>> 1237 P Street
>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>> 559-266-9237
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>> agencies
>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend 
>>>> National
>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid
>>>> for
>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>> experienced?
>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> marc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>> little
>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>> system
>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>> consultant
>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>> consumers
>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>> their
>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other 
>>>> legislation
>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
> /
>>>>>     Quick
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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> 01/11/10
> 07:35:00
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> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
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> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
sightbb.com


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_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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il.com



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 17:21:17 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 11:21:17 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
In-Reply-To: <006701ca9331$3822b640$6601a8c0@server>
References: <006701ca9331$3822b640$6601a8c0@server>
Message-ID: <13ff01ca93ab$a736d640$f5a482c0$@com>

I think all that you've suggested is really great.  I absolutely agree with
the latter part of your e-mail.  It doesn't matter how much litigation is
put forth if there is no fervor within the blind and visual impaired
community.  Every example you gave was based upon a great demand within each
community.

The question is, how do we get everyone more involved?

Sometimes it seems as though many blind individuals, at least here where I
am, tend to be sort of hermit like.  What do we do about that?

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Dennis Clark
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:45 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys

If you are a blind lawyer or second or third year law student please read
on.  We are privileged to be lawyers and this is an appeal for you to join
with me to begin formulating a long term legal strategy which will enable us
as blind people to make the same kind of progress in kind and degree as
other minority groups have made during the past 60 years.  This will involve
each of us becoming experts on the legal histories of women, blacks, and
gays, to understand the seminal cases and legislation which has led to their
progress, and to develop a well thought out, cohesive legal theory for blind
civil rights which uses the issues and cases of these other groups as
precedent or persuasive support for our own analogous legal claims.  

When I was in law school I was fortunate to get to know one of the attorneys
who worked on the Jackie Robinson law suit which integrated professional
baseball.  He was a celebrated law professor and lawyer who participated in
this law suit as a volunteer civil rights lawyer for B'nai B'rith.  Most of
the successful civil rights cases which have led to the equality that blacks
benefit from today were fought by the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai
B'rith both together and separately.  Thurgood Marshal was also a critical
global thinker and player with the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and it was those
successes which led President Johnson to appoint him to the Supreme Court.  

My professor told me that the Jackie Robinson case was planned long before
Jackie Robinson himself was identified as the best plaintiff for the case.
In the 40's and 50's a group of very brilliant lawyers and law professors
talked and met together frequently to create a long term legal strategy
which could shape and reorient the law to achieve civil rights progress for
both blacks and Jews.  They carefully decided which cases needed to be
brought ahead of other cases because obviously some cases will become
seminal and have a larger impact on society than others.  

The decision to challenge professional baseballs prohibition against black
players was one of these key strategic decisions.  Once it was decided to
file this important case, they set out to find the right player to be the
plaintiff.  He said that they knew they needed a player who was perfect in
every way.  The player would need to be a great hitter and be pretty much
qualified to play every other position on the field at a professional level.
The key was to have a player who was so unbelievable in every way so that
any argument which could be made against hiring such a black player would be
clearly irrational, and as such based purely on racial prejudice.  Beyond
this, he said that they needed a player who could emotionally withstand the
abuse which would be aimed at him by players and fans once the case was won
and he was hired.  He was going to be the target of much hatred, he would
not be permitted to stay in hotels with the rest of the team in many cities,
he could not eat in the same restaurants as the rest of the team in many
cities, and his life really could be at risk.  It was undeniable that this
was going to take a very special person and they waited quite a while to
file the suit until they found jus that right person, and that man was
Jackie Robinson.  

The main point here is that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith
didn't simply file cases willie nillie, but rather they chose cases
carefully so as to move the courts along slowly but surely.  Filing a
dubious case where there is a fifty fifty chance of losing would have been
understood as potentially counter-productive.  Clearly if we as blind people
win a case we have a precedent in our favor, but if we lose a case this is a
setback because we have created a precedent that is contrary to our civil
rights progress.  

I am confident that I will be attacked for this, but I believe that we have
steadily lost ground over the past 30 years in both education and
employment.  Obviously today's young blind adults can not know this because
as is true for all people, our reality is shaped mostly by what we are
experiencing.  Moreover there is a human prejudice that today must always be
better than yesterday.  

but my claim is that those of us who were teenagers and young adults in the
60's and 70's had more opportunities than similarly situated blind people
today.  When I took the PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE LSAT, and 4 bar exams, I was
given fair exams by competent readers.  To have done less than this in those
days would have been regarded as unthinkable and absurd by the agencies
providing these tests because it would have been thought as simply unfair.
Today one is lucky if the reader provided by any of these agencies is barely
literate.  

For me most of these exams predated the ADA and my claim is that the ADA is
the problem.  I have dealt with a number of these agencies on behalf of
disabled clients who have come to me for help, and I can tell you that the
agencies think the ADA empowers them to simply give blind people a reader of
the agencies choosing.  On numerous occasions I have been told by
representatives of these agencies that all they are required to do is
provide a reader of their choosing.  I point out that the ADA says
"qualified reader," not just a reader.  Inevitably they then claim that all
their readers are qualified even though they can not articulate what steps
they have taken to verify this to be true.  Further discussion usually
results in a very smug acknowledgement that they hold all the power and if
we think we can do something about it then go ahead.  They are right.  We
have become powerless, but that can change if those of us with law school
educations come together and force a change.  

I would be curious to know how many blind students there are today at the 5
top ranked engineering schools in the U.S.  My guess is zero, but I hope I
am wrong about this.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were a number of
us.  I attended Stanford in Mechanical Engineering from 1977 to 1981 and all
of my materials were provided to me in Braille including thousands of raised
line drawings, and without these materials it would have been impossible for
me to do the program.  One of my engineering professors was a retired
Admiral from the Navy and one day he asked me if an optacon would be useful
to me and if I would like one?  I told him that I had a little experience
with it, but they cost $5000 and I wasn't sure that I could afford it or
that it would be useful enough to justify the cost.  He had an interesting
response.  He said, Dennis first of all Stanford is rich so they can afford
it.  Second, he said, "Stanford admitted you and it is Stanford's
responsibility to provide you what ever resources you need to be
successful."  Has anyone heard any professors today say anything like this?
I think not.  On these forums I have read of a blind college student being
told by a professor that he could not play in the school band because he was
blind.  I would have thought that even the dumbest professor in the world
could have gotten this right simply because of Ray Charles and Stevie
Wonder.  I recall a law school dean at the University of Alaska stating that
a blind applicant could not be admitted because blind people can not be
lawyers.  

Another of my professors was Robert Hofstadter.  He had a Nobel prize in
Physics.  I approached him near the midterm, and asked him if we could
arrange for someone to read the midterm to me.  He immediately responded,
Well why don't you come to my office the morning of the test and I will read
it to you, which he did.  I have read of professors who now shoot their
exams over to the disability services office to be read aloud by someone
completely unable to read aloud.  The professor can't be bothered today.
When we finished Professor Hofstadter said that he wished he could do this
with every student because he would then really know what students did and
didn't understand and he would then know what he needed to spend additional
time on in lectures.  

There was no disabled students office to function as an obstacle between my
professors and me.  There was no disabled students office which had the
responsibility to provide me with Braille or readers or anything else, and
this was a plus not a minus because today these offices frequently fall down
on the job and the student is left completely holding the bag.  No business
would rely on a vendor which comes through only 60 or 70 per cent of the
time, particularly when the business has no power over the vendor.  This is
a formula for disaster and no sensible manager would do this yet blind
students are now forced into this situation all the time.  Because of this
lack of accountability by disabled students offices I have recently read a
discussion where a blind student is asking how he can handle a college math
class using readers because he doesn't have a Braille math book.  No sighted
student would be expected to do college math without a print book and they
can see the board.  During the past 20 years I am confident that we have
spent tens of millions of dollars on disability student offices and the
students now have less than we had in the 70's without all this money having
been spent.  Why?

I  would argue that we as lawyers need to rethink our current situation and
get a handle on the legal twists and turns that brought us here.  My
thinking is that we should begin by revisiting Plessy v. Ferguson an the 2
law school cases which overturned Plessy.  The Supreme Court decided that
separate but equal can never actually be equal, so Plessy was done away
with.  

However, almost all the law which governs our lives, rights and
opportunities as blind people is openly based on the notion that separate
but unequal treatment for us is acceptable.  We actually spend most of our
time as blind people asking for separate but unequal treatment as an
accommodation.  Women, blacks, and gays do not do this.  They are clear that
separate is always unequal and they are having none of it.  

Consider this.  When I was in law school an issue arose concerning women law
school students.  For some reason there is a shower in one of the men's
restrooms at the University of Chicago Law School.  The law school was built
in the 50's before there were many if any women law students.  There are
certainly women's restrooms, but none with a shower.  

Men and women alike have taken in recent years to exercising while at school
and some of them wish to shower after they run or exercise.  This is not a
problem for men since there is a shower, but what can women do?  It was
initially proposed that women could go over to the main campus to the gym
and shower there.  This is about 4 blocks from the law school across the
midway.  This was a no go as far as women were concerned.  They asked why
should they have to go a total of 8 blocks round trip to shower when men
could shower without leaving the law school?  At first the administration
argued that since women needed to shower because they were already
exercising then why wouldn't they be willing to go across campus since a
little additional exercise was all that was being proposed?  However, the
universal consensus of men and women alike based on common sense and basic
fairness was that this was not acceptable.  It was viewed as pretty much
obvious that it would be unfair to expect women to have to do more than men
when they engaged in the same activity as men.  I dare say that those
reading this would probably agree and I'm asking you to keep on that same
fairness hat when you consider the following question.

Why is it fair for a blind person to have to take twice as long on an exam
as a sighted person in order to obtain an equivalent valid score?  My claim
is that it is not fair and women would not put up with it for a second.
Women would tell you to figure out how to do it with out them taking on any
burden which is greater than that of men.  They would be right.  As a matter
of testing science and methodology it is possible to create an exam which
blind people could take in the same length of time which would be equally
valid, but it is not being done because we have permitted them to dump the
burden of accommodation on us rather than requiring them to spend more money
validating their standardized tests.  

Would a professional quarterback ever be expected to play football in an
important game with a center that he has never had the opportunity to
practice with?  No.  This would be regarded as absurd and totally unfair.
Yet we are expected to work with readers on exams that our entire futures
and jobs are dependent upon; with readers who we've never met, tested or
practiced with and who often can not even read English aloud accurately.
Women would not put up with this.  Blacks would not put up with this.  We
do, and the reason we do is that we feel powerless to do anything about it.
We have come to think like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire, that we must
depend on the kindness of strangers.  

I worked for 5 years for a very large law firm, and we never ourselves, nor
did we ever advise our clients to depend on the kindness of the other side.
The parties on the other side wanted to win because they wanted their own
way, and our clients also wanted to win because they wanted their own way.
There was no kindness on either side and that is how it should be in matters
of law.  As lawyers it is our mandated responsibility to zealously represent
our clients which means it is our job to fight them with everything we have
to make certain that our clients win.  That's what lawyers do.  We are
privileged to be lawyers.  We have one power that no one else has.  As all
non lawyers must acknowledge, you can write thousands of letters to someone
trying to get them to talk with you and they can throw them in the trash.
You can light up their switchboard all day long with phone calls and they
can tell the operator to say that they are not in.  However, we as lawyers
have the power to force them to talk with us simply by serving a complaint
on them and they will definitely talk with us in front of a judge.  They
will not ignore that.

I'm sure I have offended some, bored most, and confused others.  But if you
are a lawyer and I have struck a chord with you and reawakened for a moment
a memory of why you went to law school to begin with, please contact me.  We
have the knowledge and the power to make real change for blind people if we
choose to come together like the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith.
Thanks for reading and I hope to talk with you.

Warmest regards,
Dennis
_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
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il.com



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 18:18:55 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:18:55 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>
Message-ID: <FEDC3F54008F40B8B6A3C38C7274124A@Rufus>

Steve,

I think you make a compelling argument.  That said, it seems most states do
not bother to make proper investments in their state facilities.  Should a
person who is banking on one of these rehabilitation centers to enhance
their self-sufficiency be punished for the state's lack of effort or
interest?  I chose not to attend an NFB center.  Yet it seems that more
often than not people who do attend can show a good return on a state's
investment.

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 10:40 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of 
the local NFB
> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about 
blindness.  There
> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>
> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're 
not.  They 
> are
> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>
> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that 
institution, then
> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> You want blind individuals from those states having a 
blindness center,
> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers 
at those 
> same
> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally 
possible..  If the
> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay 
the way with
> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the 
limit.  States
> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend 
NFB centers.
> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a 
consumer to
> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants 
to attend a
> private college, they need to pay the difference or get 
scholarships to
> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to 
pay.  Usually,
> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state 
> institutions.
>
> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you 
must make up
> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB 
> center
> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain 
to them in
>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really 
not going to
>> do
>> much.
>>
>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  
Tell them why
>> it
>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea 
why things do
>> not
>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state 
agency does 
>>> not
>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab 
centers such as 
>>> the
>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>> things
>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>
>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>> 1237 P Street
>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>> 559-266-9237
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>> agencies
>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend 
>>>> National
>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should 
be fully paid
>>>> for
>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is 
that is being
>>>> experienced?
>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> marc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of 
South Florida
>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>> little
>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more 
effective to use a
>>>> system
>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to 
members of
>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>> consultant
>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>> consumers
>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend 
facilities of
>>>> their
>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other 
>>>> legislation
>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
> 
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitat
ion-act-1973
> /
>>>>>     Quick
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm
an%40sbcglob
> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin
%40pobox.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm
an%40sbcglob
> al.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>>
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205
%40gmail.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep
.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
> 
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>
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> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Tue Jan 12 18:21:32 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:21:32 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>
	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>
	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>
	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>
	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com>
	<1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>
	<13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>
Message-ID: <A667A0911D7646AF8E170E50D3519337@StevePC>

If a person wants to attend a center outside of their state where there is 
already a blindness center, the state in question should not have to pay for 
the client to attend.  Voc Rehab budgets are stretched to the limit; there 
is no money for such out of state training.  Unless you can pay your own way 
or NFB assists, the state can't aford this expense and still leave funding 
for all other consumers and their needs!!

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>
> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is no
> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local 
>> NFB
>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness. 
>> There
>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>
>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>> are
>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>
>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>> same
>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If 
>> the
>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way 
>> with
>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>> institutions.
>>
>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make 
>> up
>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>> center
>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going 
>>> to
>>> do
>>> much.
>>>
>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them why
>>> it
>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>>> not
>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>> not
>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>> the
>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>> things
>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>> agencies
>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>> National
>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid
>>>>> for
>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>> experienced?
>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> marc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>> little
>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>> system
>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>> consultant
>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>> consumers
>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>>> their
>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>> legislation
>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>> /
>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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07:35:00



From lists at zufelt.ca  Tue Jan 12 18:32:53 2010
From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:32:53 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <FEDC3F54008F40B8B6A3C38C7274124A@Rufus>
References: <FEDC3F54008F40B8B6A3C38C7274124A@Rufus>
Message-ID: <58D0BF78-4F64-4645-A033-06C5A722516F@zufelt.ca>

Good afternoon,

As this is off topic I'd love to hear responses privately.

As I live in Canada, where rehab centres for the blind are practically  
non-existent, I am curious to hear from those who have attended to get  
and understanding of the benefit such training centres can provide.

Thanks,
Everett

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On 12-Jan-10, at 1:18 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:

> Steve,
>
> I think you make a compelling argument.  That said, it seems most  
> states do
> not bother to make proper investments in their state facilities.   
> Should a
> person who is banking on one of these rehabilitation centers to  
> enhance
> their self-sufficiency be punished for the state's lack of effort or
> interest?  I chose not to attend an NFB center.  Yet it seems that  
> more
> often than not people who do attend can show a good return on a  
> state's
> investment.
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 10:40 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of
> the local NFB
>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about
> blindness.  There
>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>
>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're
> not.  They
>> are
>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>
>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that
> institution, then
>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> You want blind individuals from those states having a
> blindness center,
>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers
> at those
>> same
>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally
> possible..  If the
>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place  
>> to
>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay
> the way with
>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the
> limit.  States
>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend
> NFB centers.
>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is  
>> like
>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a
> consumer to
>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants
> to attend a
>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get
> scholarships to
>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to
> pay.  Usually,
>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>> institutions.
>>
>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you
> must make up
>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>> center
>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain
> to them in
>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really
> not going to
>>> do
>>> much.
>>>
>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.
> Tell them why
>>> it
>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea
> why things do
>>> not
>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state
> agency does
>>>> not
>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab
> centers such as
>>>> the
>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and  
>>>> other
>>>> things
>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>> agencies
>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>> National
>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should
> be fully paid
>>>>> for
>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is
> that is being
>>>>> experienced?
>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training  
>>>>> Centers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> marc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of
> South Florida
>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this  
>>>>> have
>>>>> little
>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more
> effective to use a
>>>>> system
>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to
> members of
>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>> consultant
>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>> consumers
>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend
> facilities of
>>>>> their
>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>> legislation
>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitat
> ion-act-1973
>> /
>>>>>>    Quick
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm
> an%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin
> %40pobox.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm
> an%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205
> %40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
>>> for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep
> .deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
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>> blindlaw:
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>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
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> .deeley%40insightbb.com
>
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> _______________________________________________
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> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
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>
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> for blindlaw:
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From t.l.cantrell at comcast.net  Tue Jan 12 18:36:01 2010
From: t.l.cantrell at comcast.net (tammy cantrell)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:36:01 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
References: <006701ca9331$3822b640$6601a8c0@server>
	<13ff01ca93ab$a736d640$f5a482c0$@com>
Message-ID: <00d501ca93b6$17f9d3a0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>

Once you overcome financial and transportation limitations of the blind 
community, you might resolve the hermit syndrome.  You will have to address 
the attitude of depending on others fighting battles for you too.  Just my 
two cents worth.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys


>I think all that you've suggested is really great.  I absolutely agree with
> the latter part of your e-mail.  It doesn't matter how much litigation is
> put forth if there is no fervor within the blind and visual impaired
> community.  Every example you gave was based upon a great demand within 
> each
> community.
>
> The question is, how do we get everyone more involved?
>
> Sometimes it seems as though many blind individuals, at least here where I
> am, tend to be sort of hermit like.  What do we do about that?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Dennis Clark
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:45 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
>
> If you are a blind lawyer or second or third year law student please read
> on.  We are privileged to be lawyers and this is an appeal for you to join
> with me to begin formulating a long term legal strategy which will enable 
> us
> as blind people to make the same kind of progress in kind and degree as
> other minority groups have made during the past 60 years.  This will 
> involve
> each of us becoming experts on the legal histories of women, blacks, and
> gays, to understand the seminal cases and legislation which has led to 
> their
> progress, and to develop a well thought out, cohesive legal theory for 
> blind
> civil rights which uses the issues and cases of these other groups as
> precedent or persuasive support for our own analogous legal claims.
>
> When I was in law school I was fortunate to get to know one of the 
> attorneys
> who worked on the Jackie Robinson law suit which integrated professional
> baseball.  He was a celebrated law professor and lawyer who participated 
> in
> this law suit as a volunteer civil rights lawyer for B'nai B'rith.  Most 
> of
> the successful civil rights cases which have led to the equality that 
> blacks
> benefit from today were fought by the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai
> B'rith both together and separately.  Thurgood Marshal was also a critical
> global thinker and player with the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and it was 
> those
> successes which led President Johnson to appoint him to the Supreme Court.
>
> My professor told me that the Jackie Robinson case was planned long before
> Jackie Robinson himself was identified as the best plaintiff for the case.
> In the 40's and 50's a group of very brilliant lawyers and law professors
> talked and met together frequently to create a long term legal strategy
> which could shape and reorient the law to achieve civil rights progress 
> for
> both blacks and Jews.  They carefully decided which cases needed to be
> brought ahead of other cases because obviously some cases will become
> seminal and have a larger impact on society than others.
>
> The decision to challenge professional baseballs prohibition against black
> players was one of these key strategic decisions.  Once it was decided to
> file this important case, they set out to find the right player to be the
> plaintiff.  He said that they knew they needed a player who was perfect in
> every way.  The player would need to be a great hitter and be pretty much
> qualified to play every other position on the field at a professional 
> level.
> The key was to have a player who was so unbelievable in every way so that
> any argument which could be made against hiring such a black player would 
> be
> clearly irrational, and as such based purely on racial prejudice.  Beyond
> this, he said that they needed a player who could emotionally withstand 
> the
> abuse which would be aimed at him by players and fans once the case was 
> won
> and he was hired.  He was going to be the target of much hatred, he would
> not be permitted to stay in hotels with the rest of the team in many 
> cities,
> he could not eat in the same restaurants as the rest of the team in many
> cities, and his life really could be at risk.  It was undeniable that this
> was going to take a very special person and they waited quite a while to
> file the suit until they found jus that right person, and that man was
> Jackie Robinson.
>
> The main point here is that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith
> didn't simply file cases willie nillie, but rather they chose cases
> carefully so as to move the courts along slowly but surely.  Filing a
> dubious case where there is a fifty fifty chance of losing would have been
> understood as potentially counter-productive.  Clearly if we as blind 
> people
> win a case we have a precedent in our favor, but if we lose a case this is 
> a
> setback because we have created a precedent that is contrary to our civil
> rights progress.
>
> I am confident that I will be attacked for this, but I believe that we 
> have
> steadily lost ground over the past 30 years in both education and
> employment.  Obviously today's young blind adults can not know this 
> because
> as is true for all people, our reality is shaped mostly by what we are
> experiencing.  Moreover there is a human prejudice that today must always 
> be
> better than yesterday.
>
> but my claim is that those of us who were teenagers and young adults in 
> the
> 60's and 70's had more opportunities than similarly situated blind people
> today.  When I took the PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE LSAT, and 4 bar exams, I was
> given fair exams by competent readers.  To have done less than this in 
> those
> days would have been regarded as unthinkable and absurd by the agencies
> providing these tests because it would have been thought as simply unfair.
> Today one is lucky if the reader provided by any of these agencies is 
> barely
> literate.
>
> For me most of these exams predated the ADA and my claim is that the ADA 
> is
> the problem.  I have dealt with a number of these agencies on behalf of
> disabled clients who have come to me for help, and I can tell you that the
> agencies think the ADA empowers them to simply give blind people a reader 
> of
> the agencies choosing.  On numerous occasions I have been told by
> representatives of these agencies that all they are required to do is
> provide a reader of their choosing.  I point out that the ADA says
> "qualified reader," not just a reader.  Inevitably they then claim that 
> all
> their readers are qualified even though they can not articulate what steps
> they have taken to verify this to be true.  Further discussion usually
> results in a very smug acknowledgement that they hold all the power and if
> we think we can do something about it then go ahead.  They are right.  We
> have become powerless, but that can change if those of us with law school
> educations come together and force a change.
>
> I would be curious to know how many blind students there are today at the 
> 5
> top ranked engineering schools in the U.S.  My guess is zero, but I hope I
> am wrong about this.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were a number of
> us.  I attended Stanford in Mechanical Engineering from 1977 to 1981 and 
> all
> of my materials were provided to me in Braille including thousands of 
> raised
> line drawings, and without these materials it would have been impossible 
> for
> me to do the program.  One of my engineering professors was a retired
> Admiral from the Navy and one day he asked me if an optacon would be 
> useful
> to me and if I would like one?  I told him that I had a little experience
> with it, but they cost $5000 and I wasn't sure that I could afford it or
> that it would be useful enough to justify the cost.  He had an interesting
> response.  He said, Dennis first of all Stanford is rich so they can 
> afford
> it.  Second, he said, "Stanford admitted you and it is Stanford's
> responsibility to provide you what ever resources you need to be
> successful."  Has anyone heard any professors today say anything like 
> this?
> I think not.  On these forums I have read of a blind college student being
> told by a professor that he could not play in the school band because he 
> was
> blind.  I would have thought that even the dumbest professor in the world
> could have gotten this right simply because of Ray Charles and Stevie
> Wonder.  I recall a law school dean at the University of Alaska stating 
> that
> a blind applicant could not be admitted because blind people can not be
> lawyers.
>
> Another of my professors was Robert Hofstadter.  He had a Nobel prize in
> Physics.  I approached him near the midterm, and asked him if we could
> arrange for someone to read the midterm to me.  He immediately responded,
> Well why don't you come to my office the morning of the test and I will 
> read
> it to you, which he did.  I have read of professors who now shoot their
> exams over to the disability services office to be read aloud by someone
> completely unable to read aloud.  The professor can't be bothered today.
> When we finished Professor Hofstadter said that he wished he could do this
> with every student because he would then really know what students did and
> didn't understand and he would then know what he needed to spend 
> additional
> time on in lectures.
>
> There was no disabled students office to function as an obstacle between 
> my
> professors and me.  There was no disabled students office which had the
> responsibility to provide me with Braille or readers or anything else, and
> this was a plus not a minus because today these offices frequently fall 
> down
> on the job and the student is left completely holding the bag.  No 
> business
> would rely on a vendor which comes through only 60 or 70 per cent of the
> time, particularly when the business has no power over the vendor.  This 
> is
> a formula for disaster and no sensible manager would do this yet blind
> students are now forced into this situation all the time.  Because of this
> lack of accountability by disabled students offices I have recently read a
> discussion where a blind student is asking how he can handle a college 
> math
> class using readers because he doesn't have a Braille math book.  No 
> sighted
> student would be expected to do college math without a print book and they
> can see the board.  During the past 20 years I am confident that we have
> spent tens of millions of dollars on disability student offices and the
> students now have less than we had in the 70's without all this money 
> having
> been spent.  Why?
>
> I  would argue that we as lawyers need to rethink our current situation 
> and
> get a handle on the legal twists and turns that brought us here.  My
> thinking is that we should begin by revisiting Plessy v. Ferguson an the 2
> law school cases which overturned Plessy.  The Supreme Court decided that
> separate but equal can never actually be equal, so Plessy was done away
> with.
>
> However, almost all the law which governs our lives, rights and
> opportunities as blind people is openly based on the notion that separate
> but unequal treatment for us is acceptable.  We actually spend most of our
> time as blind people asking for separate but unequal treatment as an
> accommodation.  Women, blacks, and gays do not do this.  They are clear 
> that
> separate is always unequal and they are having none of it.
>
> Consider this.  When I was in law school an issue arose concerning women 
> law
> school students.  For some reason there is a shower in one of the men's
> restrooms at the University of Chicago Law School.  The law school was 
> built
> in the 50's before there were many if any women law students.  There are
> certainly women's restrooms, but none with a shower.
>
> Men and women alike have taken in recent years to exercising while at 
> school
> and some of them wish to shower after they run or exercise.  This is not a
> problem for men since there is a shower, but what can women do?  It was
> initially proposed that women could go over to the main campus to the gym
> and shower there.  This is about 4 blocks from the law school across the
> midway.  This was a no go as far as women were concerned.  They asked why
> should they have to go a total of 8 blocks round trip to shower when men
> could shower without leaving the law school?  At first the administration
> argued that since women needed to shower because they were already
> exercising then why wouldn't they be willing to go across campus since a
> little additional exercise was all that was being proposed?  However, the
> universal consensus of men and women alike based on common sense and basic
> fairness was that this was not acceptable.  It was viewed as pretty much
> obvious that it would be unfair to expect women to have to do more than 
> men
> when they engaged in the same activity as men.  I dare say that those
> reading this would probably agree and I'm asking you to keep on that same
> fairness hat when you consider the following question.
>
> Why is it fair for a blind person to have to take twice as long on an exam
> as a sighted person in order to obtain an equivalent valid score?  My 
> claim
> is that it is not fair and women would not put up with it for a second.
> Women would tell you to figure out how to do it with out them taking on 
> any
> burden which is greater than that of men.  They would be right.  As a 
> matter
> of testing science and methodology it is possible to create an exam which
> blind people could take in the same length of time which would be equally
> valid, but it is not being done because we have permitted them to dump the
> burden of accommodation on us rather than requiring them to spend more 
> money
> validating their standardized tests.
>
> Would a professional quarterback ever be expected to play football in an
> important game with a center that he has never had the opportunity to
> practice with?  No.  This would be regarded as absurd and totally unfair.
> Yet we are expected to work with readers on exams that our entire futures
> and jobs are dependent upon; with readers who we've never met, tested or
> practiced with and who often can not even read English aloud accurately.
> Women would not put up with this.  Blacks would not put up with this.  We
> do, and the reason we do is that we feel powerless to do anything about 
> it.
> We have come to think like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire, that we 
> must
> depend on the kindness of strangers.
>
> I worked for 5 years for a very large law firm, and we never ourselves, 
> nor
> did we ever advise our clients to depend on the kindness of the other 
> side.
> The parties on the other side wanted to win because they wanted their own
> way, and our clients also wanted to win because they wanted their own way.
> There was no kindness on either side and that is how it should be in 
> matters
> of law.  As lawyers it is our mandated responsibility to zealously 
> represent
> our clients which means it is our job to fight them with everything we 
> have
> to make certain that our clients win.  That's what lawyers do.  We are
> privileged to be lawyers.  We have one power that no one else has.  As all
> non lawyers must acknowledge, you can write thousands of letters to 
> someone
> trying to get them to talk with you and they can throw them in the trash.
> You can light up their switchboard all day long with phone calls and they
> can tell the operator to say that they are not in.  However, we as lawyers
> have the power to force them to talk with us simply by serving a complaint
> on them and they will definitely talk with us in front of a judge.  They
> will not ignore that.
>
> I'm sure I have offended some, bored most, and confused others.  But if 
> you
> are a lawyer and I have struck a chord with you and reawakened for a 
> moment
> a memory of why you went to law school to begin with, please contact me. 
> We
> have the knowledge and the power to make real change for blind people if 
> we
> choose to come together like the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai 
> B'rith.
> Thanks for reading and I hope to talk with you.
>
> Warmest regards,
> Dennis
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
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From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 18:38:18 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:38:18 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <A667A0911D7646AF8E170E50D3519337@StevePC>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com>	<1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>	<13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>
	<A667A0911D7646AF8E170E50D3519337@StevePC>
Message-ID: <142401ca93b6$699342f0$3cb9c8d0$@com>

So a person who lives in a state that does not have a NFB center should have
to pay their own way to one of these facilities?  Last time I checked, if a
person is at the stage that they need to go to one of these, they are
probably at the beginning of their blindness.  Therefore they are not
working and have no money.  This was my situation.  Fortunately, I didn't
have to go to a facility because I had a great support system.  But there
are those who need the service.  I'm not sure whether the costs are
different for the various centers...but it seems to me if NFB won't do
anything to assist a person, then they probably aren't truly about educating
the blind to live independently...And I still say that states need to
prioritize or else there will be a lot of blind people not able to work,
live alone etc.

Again, I understand what you're saying but I don't think our two ideas
should be independent of one another.  If any state government isn't able to
reorient in times of recession, the people of that state need to elect some
new people.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:22 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

If a person wants to attend a center outside of their state where there is 
already a blindness center, the state in question should not have to pay for

the client to attend.  Voc Rehab budgets are stretched to the limit; there 
is no money for such out of state training.  Unless you can pay your own way

or NFB assists, the state can't aford this expense and still leave funding 
for all other consumers and their needs!!

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>
> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is no
> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local 
>> NFB
>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness. 
>> There
>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>
>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>> are
>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>
>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>> same
>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If 
>> the
>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way 
>> with
>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>> institutions.
>>
>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make 
>> up
>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>> center
>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going 
>>> to
>>> do
>>> much.
>>>
>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them why
>>> it
>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>>> not
>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>> not
>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>> the
>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>> things
>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>> agencies
>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>> National
>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid
>>>>> for
>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>> experienced?
>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> marc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>> little
>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>> system
>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>> consultant
>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>> consumers
>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>>> their
>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>> legislation
>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
>
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>> /
>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
>
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
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>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
>
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From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 19:05:10 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:05:10 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
In-Reply-To: <00d501ca93b6$17f9d3a0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
References: <006701ca9331$3822b640$6601a8c0@server>	<13ff01ca93ab$a736d640$f5a482c0$@com>
	<00d501ca93b6$17f9d3a0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
Message-ID: <143901ca93ba$2ab5d440$80217cc0$@com>

I agree...the hermit syndrome I was talking about is the isolation that
comes at the onset of blindness.  We've got to find a way to deal with that
too.  Whether it be some type of mentoring program or the like.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of tammy cantrell
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:36 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys

Once you overcome financial and transportation limitations of the blind 
community, you might resolve the hermit syndrome.  You will have to address 
the attitude of depending on others fighting battles for you too.  Just my 
two cents worth.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys


>I think all that you've suggested is really great.  I absolutely agree with
> the latter part of your e-mail.  It doesn't matter how much litigation is
> put forth if there is no fervor within the blind and visual impaired
> community.  Every example you gave was based upon a great demand within 
> each
> community.
>
> The question is, how do we get everyone more involved?
>
> Sometimes it seems as though many blind individuals, at least here where I
> am, tend to be sort of hermit like.  What do we do about that?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Dennis Clark
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:45 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
>
> If you are a blind lawyer or second or third year law student please read
> on.  We are privileged to be lawyers and this is an appeal for you to join
> with me to begin formulating a long term legal strategy which will enable 
> us
> as blind people to make the same kind of progress in kind and degree as
> other minority groups have made during the past 60 years.  This will 
> involve
> each of us becoming experts on the legal histories of women, blacks, and
> gays, to understand the seminal cases and legislation which has led to 
> their
> progress, and to develop a well thought out, cohesive legal theory for 
> blind
> civil rights which uses the issues and cases of these other groups as
> precedent or persuasive support for our own analogous legal claims.
>
> When I was in law school I was fortunate to get to know one of the 
> attorneys
> who worked on the Jackie Robinson law suit which integrated professional
> baseball.  He was a celebrated law professor and lawyer who participated 
> in
> this law suit as a volunteer civil rights lawyer for B'nai B'rith.  Most 
> of
> the successful civil rights cases which have led to the equality that 
> blacks
> benefit from today were fought by the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai
> B'rith both together and separately.  Thurgood Marshal was also a critical
> global thinker and player with the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and it was 
> those
> successes which led President Johnson to appoint him to the Supreme Court.
>
> My professor told me that the Jackie Robinson case was planned long before
> Jackie Robinson himself was identified as the best plaintiff for the case.
> In the 40's and 50's a group of very brilliant lawyers and law professors
> talked and met together frequently to create a long term legal strategy
> which could shape and reorient the law to achieve civil rights progress 
> for
> both blacks and Jews.  They carefully decided which cases needed to be
> brought ahead of other cases because obviously some cases will become
> seminal and have a larger impact on society than others.
>
> The decision to challenge professional baseballs prohibition against black
> players was one of these key strategic decisions.  Once it was decided to
> file this important case, they set out to find the right player to be the
> plaintiff.  He said that they knew they needed a player who was perfect in
> every way.  The player would need to be a great hitter and be pretty much
> qualified to play every other position on the field at a professional 
> level.
> The key was to have a player who was so unbelievable in every way so that
> any argument which could be made against hiring such a black player would 
> be
> clearly irrational, and as such based purely on racial prejudice.  Beyond
> this, he said that they needed a player who could emotionally withstand 
> the
> abuse which would be aimed at him by players and fans once the case was 
> won
> and he was hired.  He was going to be the target of much hatred, he would
> not be permitted to stay in hotels with the rest of the team in many 
> cities,
> he could not eat in the same restaurants as the rest of the team in many
> cities, and his life really could be at risk.  It was undeniable that this
> was going to take a very special person and they waited quite a while to
> file the suit until they found jus that right person, and that man was
> Jackie Robinson.
>
> The main point here is that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith
> didn't simply file cases willie nillie, but rather they chose cases
> carefully so as to move the courts along slowly but surely.  Filing a
> dubious case where there is a fifty fifty chance of losing would have been
> understood as potentially counter-productive.  Clearly if we as blind 
> people
> win a case we have a precedent in our favor, but if we lose a case this is

> a
> setback because we have created a precedent that is contrary to our civil
> rights progress.
>
> I am confident that I will be attacked for this, but I believe that we 
> have
> steadily lost ground over the past 30 years in both education and
> employment.  Obviously today's young blind adults can not know this 
> because
> as is true for all people, our reality is shaped mostly by what we are
> experiencing.  Moreover there is a human prejudice that today must always 
> be
> better than yesterday.
>
> but my claim is that those of us who were teenagers and young adults in 
> the
> 60's and 70's had more opportunities than similarly situated blind people
> today.  When I took the PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE LSAT, and 4 bar exams, I was
> given fair exams by competent readers.  To have done less than this in 
> those
> days would have been regarded as unthinkable and absurd by the agencies
> providing these tests because it would have been thought as simply unfair.
> Today one is lucky if the reader provided by any of these agencies is 
> barely
> literate.
>
> For me most of these exams predated the ADA and my claim is that the ADA 
> is
> the problem.  I have dealt with a number of these agencies on behalf of
> disabled clients who have come to me for help, and I can tell you that the
> agencies think the ADA empowers them to simply give blind people a reader 
> of
> the agencies choosing.  On numerous occasions I have been told by
> representatives of these agencies that all they are required to do is
> provide a reader of their choosing.  I point out that the ADA says
> "qualified reader," not just a reader.  Inevitably they then claim that 
> all
> their readers are qualified even though they can not articulate what steps
> they have taken to verify this to be true.  Further discussion usually
> results in a very smug acknowledgement that they hold all the power and if
> we think we can do something about it then go ahead.  They are right.  We
> have become powerless, but that can change if those of us with law school
> educations come together and force a change.
>
> I would be curious to know how many blind students there are today at the 
> 5
> top ranked engineering schools in the U.S.  My guess is zero, but I hope I
> am wrong about this.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were a number of
> us.  I attended Stanford in Mechanical Engineering from 1977 to 1981 and 
> all
> of my materials were provided to me in Braille including thousands of 
> raised
> line drawings, and without these materials it would have been impossible 
> for
> me to do the program.  One of my engineering professors was a retired
> Admiral from the Navy and one day he asked me if an optacon would be 
> useful
> to me and if I would like one?  I told him that I had a little experience
> with it, but they cost $5000 and I wasn't sure that I could afford it or
> that it would be useful enough to justify the cost.  He had an interesting
> response.  He said, Dennis first of all Stanford is rich so they can 
> afford
> it.  Second, he said, "Stanford admitted you and it is Stanford's
> responsibility to provide you what ever resources you need to be
> successful."  Has anyone heard any professors today say anything like 
> this?
> I think not.  On these forums I have read of a blind college student being
> told by a professor that he could not play in the school band because he 
> was
> blind.  I would have thought that even the dumbest professor in the world
> could have gotten this right simply because of Ray Charles and Stevie
> Wonder.  I recall a law school dean at the University of Alaska stating 
> that
> a blind applicant could not be admitted because blind people can not be
> lawyers.
>
> Another of my professors was Robert Hofstadter.  He had a Nobel prize in
> Physics.  I approached him near the midterm, and asked him if we could
> arrange for someone to read the midterm to me.  He immediately responded,
> Well why don't you come to my office the morning of the test and I will 
> read
> it to you, which he did.  I have read of professors who now shoot their
> exams over to the disability services office to be read aloud by someone
> completely unable to read aloud.  The professor can't be bothered today.
> When we finished Professor Hofstadter said that he wished he could do this
> with every student because he would then really know what students did and
> didn't understand and he would then know what he needed to spend 
> additional
> time on in lectures.
>
> There was no disabled students office to function as an obstacle between 
> my
> professors and me.  There was no disabled students office which had the
> responsibility to provide me with Braille or readers or anything else, and
> this was a plus not a minus because today these offices frequently fall 
> down
> on the job and the student is left completely holding the bag.  No 
> business
> would rely on a vendor which comes through only 60 or 70 per cent of the
> time, particularly when the business has no power over the vendor.  This 
> is
> a formula for disaster and no sensible manager would do this yet blind
> students are now forced into this situation all the time.  Because of this
> lack of accountability by disabled students offices I have recently read a
> discussion where a blind student is asking how he can handle a college 
> math
> class using readers because he doesn't have a Braille math book.  No 
> sighted
> student would be expected to do college math without a print book and they
> can see the board.  During the past 20 years I am confident that we have
> spent tens of millions of dollars on disability student offices and the
> students now have less than we had in the 70's without all this money 
> having
> been spent.  Why?
>
> I  would argue that we as lawyers need to rethink our current situation 
> and
> get a handle on the legal twists and turns that brought us here.  My
> thinking is that we should begin by revisiting Plessy v. Ferguson an the 2
> law school cases which overturned Plessy.  The Supreme Court decided that
> separate but equal can never actually be equal, so Plessy was done away
> with.
>
> However, almost all the law which governs our lives, rights and
> opportunities as blind people is openly based on the notion that separate
> but unequal treatment for us is acceptable.  We actually spend most of our
> time as blind people asking for separate but unequal treatment as an
> accommodation.  Women, blacks, and gays do not do this.  They are clear 
> that
> separate is always unequal and they are having none of it.
>
> Consider this.  When I was in law school an issue arose concerning women 
> law
> school students.  For some reason there is a shower in one of the men's
> restrooms at the University of Chicago Law School.  The law school was 
> built
> in the 50's before there were many if any women law students.  There are
> certainly women's restrooms, but none with a shower.
>
> Men and women alike have taken in recent years to exercising while at 
> school
> and some of them wish to shower after they run or exercise.  This is not a
> problem for men since there is a shower, but what can women do?  It was
> initially proposed that women could go over to the main campus to the gym
> and shower there.  This is about 4 blocks from the law school across the
> midway.  This was a no go as far as women were concerned.  They asked why
> should they have to go a total of 8 blocks round trip to shower when men
> could shower without leaving the law school?  At first the administration
> argued that since women needed to shower because they were already
> exercising then why wouldn't they be willing to go across campus since a
> little additional exercise was all that was being proposed?  However, the
> universal consensus of men and women alike based on common sense and basic
> fairness was that this was not acceptable.  It was viewed as pretty much
> obvious that it would be unfair to expect women to have to do more than 
> men
> when they engaged in the same activity as men.  I dare say that those
> reading this would probably agree and I'm asking you to keep on that same
> fairness hat when you consider the following question.
>
> Why is it fair for a blind person to have to take twice as long on an exam
> as a sighted person in order to obtain an equivalent valid score?  My 
> claim
> is that it is not fair and women would not put up with it for a second.
> Women would tell you to figure out how to do it with out them taking on 
> any
> burden which is greater than that of men.  They would be right.  As a 
> matter
> of testing science and methodology it is possible to create an exam which
> blind people could take in the same length of time which would be equally
> valid, but it is not being done because we have permitted them to dump the
> burden of accommodation on us rather than requiring them to spend more 
> money
> validating their standardized tests.
>
> Would a professional quarterback ever be expected to play football in an
> important game with a center that he has never had the opportunity to
> practice with?  No.  This would be regarded as absurd and totally unfair.
> Yet we are expected to work with readers on exams that our entire futures
> and jobs are dependent upon; with readers who we've never met, tested or
> practiced with and who often can not even read English aloud accurately.
> Women would not put up with this.  Blacks would not put up with this.  We
> do, and the reason we do is that we feel powerless to do anything about 
> it.
> We have come to think like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire, that we 
> must
> depend on the kindness of strangers.
>
> I worked for 5 years for a very large law firm, and we never ourselves, 
> nor
> did we ever advise our clients to depend on the kindness of the other 
> side.
> The parties on the other side wanted to win because they wanted their own
> way, and our clients also wanted to win because they wanted their own way.
> There was no kindness on either side and that is how it should be in 
> matters
> of law.  As lawyers it is our mandated responsibility to zealously 
> represent
> our clients which means it is our job to fight them with everything we 
> have
> to make certain that our clients win.  That's what lawyers do.  We are
> privileged to be lawyers.  We have one power that no one else has.  As all
> non lawyers must acknowledge, you can write thousands of letters to 
> someone
> trying to get them to talk with you and they can throw them in the trash.
> You can light up their switchboard all day long with phone calls and they
> can tell the operator to say that they are not in.  However, we as lawyers
> have the power to force them to talk with us simply by serving a complaint
> on them and they will definitely talk with us in front of a judge.  They
> will not ignore that.
>
> I'm sure I have offended some, bored most, and confused others.  But if 
> you
> are a lawyer and I have struck a chord with you and reawakened for a 
> moment
> a memory of why you went to law school to begin with, please contact me. 
> We
> have the knowledge and the power to make real change for blind people if 
> we
> choose to come together like the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai 
> B'rith.
> Thanks for reading and I hope to talk with you.
>
> Warmest regards,
> Dennis
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV  Tue Jan 12 19:51:12 2010
From: Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV (Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR))
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:51:12 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Jobs In the Office of the General Counsel, HHS
Message-ID: <9CDA99CD650C5544ACEADDB63CCD70D1016DFC06@AVN3VS032.ees.hhs.gov>

FYI.

 

Subject: OGC Vacancy Announcements: GS-15 Deputy Chief Counsels and SES
Deputy Associate General Counsel for Public Health - IHS Branch (Wash,
DC) 

 

Please note that OGC is hiring for management positions in Washington,
D.C. (SES), Atlanta (GS-15), Dallas (GS-15), and San Francisco (GS-15).
If you know

any attorneys who might be interested in applying, please forward the
link to the job announcements.

 

Thanks! 

 

The vacancy announcement for two GS-15 Deputy Chief Counsel positions in
each of the following Regional Offices:  Region IV-Atlanta, Region
VI-Dallas, and

Region IX-San Francisco has been posted on the USAJOBS website.  The
deadline for receipt of applications is Wednesday, February 17, 2010.
The link is

below:

 

http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85538846&JobTitle=Deputy+Ch
ief+Counsel&q=OS-2010-0002&sort=rv%2c-dtex&vw=b&re=134&FedEmp=N&FedPub=Y
&jbf565=&caller=default.aspx&AVSDM=2010-01-12+00%3a03%3a00

 

 

The vacancy announcement for the SES Deputy Associate General Counsel
for Public Health, IHS Branch, in the Public Health Division in
Rockville, MD has

also been posted on the USAJOBS website.  The deadline for receipt of
applications is Wednesday, February 17, 2010.  The link is below:

 

http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85562087&JobTitle=Dep+Assoc
+General+Counsel+for+Public+Health%2c+IHS&q=counsel&lid=17514&sort=rv%2c
-dtex&cn=&rad_units=miles&brd=3876&pp=50&jbf565=1&vw=d&re=134&FedEmp=N&F
edPub=Y&caller=ses.aspx&AVSDM=2010-01-12+10%3a43%3a00

 

 

If the above links do not work, you can find the postings on
USAJOBS.GOV.    

 


From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Tue Jan 12 20:39:21 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:39:21 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <142401ca93b6$699342f0$3cb9c8d0$@com>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>
	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>
	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>
	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>
	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com>
	<1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>
	<13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>
	<A667A0911D7646AF8E170E50D3519337@StevePC>
	<142401ca93b6$699342f0$3cb9c8d0$@com>
Message-ID: <BF4129D6E00844309CA83D1125E9761E@StevePC>

Yes, if that state already has a blindness center which is supported by the 
tax dollars from the state and federal government.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> So a person who lives in a state that does not have a NFB center should 
> have
> to pay their own way to one of these facilities?  Last time I checked, if 
> a
> person is at the stage that they need to go to one of these, they are
> probably at the beginning of their blindness.  Therefore they are not
> working and have no money.  This was my situation.  Fortunately, I didn't
> have to go to a facility because I had a great support system.  But there
> are those who need the service.  I'm not sure whether the costs are
> different for the various centers...but it seems to me if NFB won't do
> anything to assist a person, then they probably aren't truly about 
> educating
> the blind to live independently...And I still say that states need to
> prioritize or else there will be a lot of blind people not able to work,
> live alone etc.
>
> Again, I understand what you're saying but I don't think our two ideas
> should be independent of one another.  If any state government isn't able 
> to
> reorient in times of recession, the people of that state need to elect 
> some
> new people.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:22 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> If a person wants to attend a center outside of their state where there is
> already a blindness center, the state in question should not have to pay 
> for
>
> the client to attend.  Voc Rehab budgets are stretched to the limit; there
> is no money for such out of state training.  Unless you can pay your own 
> way
>
> or NFB assists, the state can't aford this expense and still leave funding
> for all other consumers and their needs!!
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>
>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is 
>> no
>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local
>>> NFB
>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>> There
>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>
>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>>> are
>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>
>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>>> same
>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If
>>> the
>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>> with
>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>> institutions.
>>>
>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make
>>> up
>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>> center
>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going
>>>> to
>>>> do
>>>> much.
>>>>
>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them 
>>>> why
>>>> it
>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>>>> not
>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>>> not
>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>>> things
>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>> National
>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully 
>>>>>> paid
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>> /
>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>> 01/11/10
>>> 07:35:00
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>> 01/12/10
>> 07:35:00
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 
> 01/12/10
> 07:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


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07:35:00



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Tue Jan 12 20:42:26 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:42:26 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <58D0BF78-4F64-4645-A033-06C5A722516F@zufelt.ca>
References: <FEDC3F54008F40B8B6A3C38C7274124A@Rufus>
	<58D0BF78-4F64-4645-A033-06C5A722516F@zufelt.ca>
Message-ID: <E32A754888974DFC9CD16D6FC98DB732@StevePC>

It may sound as if I'm not in favor of NFB centers, however, I think they 
are doing tremendous work.  However, the states' rehab agencies are in real 
bad shape as far as their budgets are concerned.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "E.J. Zufelt" <lists at zufelt.ca>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> Good afternoon,
>
> As this is off topic I'd love to hear responses privately.
>
> As I live in Canada, where rehab centres for the blind are practically
> non-existent, I am curious to hear from those who have attended to get
> and understanding of the benefit such training centres can provide.
>
> Thanks,
> Everett
>
> Follow me on Twitter
> http://twitter.com/ezufelt
>
> View my LinkedIn Profile
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>
>
>
> On 12-Jan-10, at 1:18 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:
>
>> Steve,
>>
>> I think you make a compelling argument.  That said, it seems most
>> states do
>> not bother to make proper investments in their state facilities.
>> Should a
>> person who is banking on one of these rehabilitation centers to
>> enhance
>> their self-sufficiency be punished for the state's lack of effort or
>> interest?  I chose not to attend an NFB center.  Yet it seems that
>> more
>> often than not people who do attend can show a good return on a
>> state's
>> investment.
>>
>> Joe Orozco
>>
>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 10:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of
>> the local NFB
>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about
>> blindness.  There
>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>
>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're
>> not.  They
>>> are
>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>
>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that
>> institution, then
>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a
>> blindness center,
>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers
>> at those
>>> same
>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally
>> possible..  If the
>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place
>>> to
>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay
>> the way with
>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the
>> limit.  States
>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend
>> NFB centers.
>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is
>>> like
>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a
>> consumer to
>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants
>> to attend a
>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get
>> scholarships to
>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to
>> pay.  Usually,
>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>> institutions.
>>>
>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you
>> must make up
>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>> center
>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain
>> to them in
>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really
>> not going to
>>>> do
>>>> much.
>>>>
>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.
>> Tell them why
>>>> it
>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea
>> why things do
>>>> not
>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state
>> agency does
>>>>> not
>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab
>> centers such as
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and
>>>>> other
>>>>> things
>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>> National
>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should
>> be fully paid
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is
>> that is being
>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training
>>>>>> Centers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of
>> South Florida
>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more
>> effective to use a
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to
>> members of
>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend
>> facilities of
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitat
>> ion-act-1973
>>> /
>>>>>>>    Quick
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> account info for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm
>> an%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin
>> %40pobox.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm
>> an%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205
>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep
>> .deeley%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>> 01/11/10
>>> 07:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv
>> erse08%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep
>> .deeley%40insightbb.com
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release
>> Date: 01/12/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz
>> co%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
>> virus signature database 4762 (20100111) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
>> virus signature database 4764 (20100112) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
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>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature
>> database 4764 (20100112) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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07:35:00



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 20:41:00 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:41:00 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <BF4129D6E00844309CA83D1125E9761E@StevePC>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com>	<1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>	<13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>	<A667A0911D7646AF8E170E50D3519337@StevePC>	<142401ca93b6$699342f0$3cb9c8d0$@com>
	<BF4129D6E00844309CA83D1125E9761E@StevePC>
Message-ID: <14a801ca93c7$8db7d310$a9277930$@com>

Well, Lord help those who don't live in a state with a center.  They had
better scrounge up some money from somewhere.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:39 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

Yes, if that state already has a blindness center which is supported by the 
tax dollars from the state and federal government.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> So a person who lives in a state that does not have a NFB center should 
> have
> to pay their own way to one of these facilities?  Last time I checked, if 
> a
> person is at the stage that they need to go to one of these, they are
> probably at the beginning of their blindness.  Therefore they are not
> working and have no money.  This was my situation.  Fortunately, I didn't
> have to go to a facility because I had a great support system.  But there
> are those who need the service.  I'm not sure whether the costs are
> different for the various centers...but it seems to me if NFB won't do
> anything to assist a person, then they probably aren't truly about 
> educating
> the blind to live independently...And I still say that states need to
> prioritize or else there will be a lot of blind people not able to work,
> live alone etc.
>
> Again, I understand what you're saying but I don't think our two ideas
> should be independent of one another.  If any state government isn't able 
> to
> reorient in times of recession, the people of that state need to elect 
> some
> new people.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:22 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> If a person wants to attend a center outside of their state where there is
> already a blindness center, the state in question should not have to pay 
> for
>
> the client to attend.  Voc Rehab budgets are stretched to the limit; there
> is no money for such out of state training.  Unless you can pay your own 
> way
>
> or NFB assists, the state can't aford this expense and still leave funding
> for all other consumers and their needs!!
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>
>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is 
>> no
>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local
>>> NFB
>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>> There
>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>
>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>>> are
>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>
>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>>> same
>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If
>>> the
>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>> with
>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>> institutions.
>>>
>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make
>>> up
>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>> center
>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going
>>>> to
>>>> do
>>>> much.
>>>>
>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them 
>>>> why
>>>> it
>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>>>> not
>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>>> not
>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>>> things
>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>> National
>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully 
>>>>>> paid
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>> /
>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>> 01/11/10
>>> 07:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>> 01/12/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 
> 01/12/10
> 07:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
sightbb.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 01/12/10 
07:35:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
il.com



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan 12 22:18:29 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:18:29 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>
	<13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>
Message-ID: <F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>

The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the quality 
of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the state 
is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the non-NFB 
programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by 
maintaining the status quo.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>
> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is no
> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local 
>> NFB
>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness. 
>> There
>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>
>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>> are
>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>
>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>> same
>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If 
>> the
>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way 
>> with
>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>> institutions.
>>
>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make 
>> up
>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>> center
>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going 
>>> to
>>> do
>>> much.
>>>
>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them why
>>> it
>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>>> not
>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>> not
>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>> the
>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>> things
>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>> agencies
>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>> National
>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid
>>>>> for
>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>> experienced?
>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> marc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>> little
>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>> system
>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>> consultant
>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>> consumers
>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>>> their
>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>> legislation
>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>> /
>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>> 01/11/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 
> 01/12/10
> 07:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 22:27:45 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:27:45 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>	<13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>
	<F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>
Message-ID: <14dd01ca93d6$773e0c80$65ba2580$@com>

I agree that it's more cost effective to train someone to live
independently.  There's a better chance of self-sustainment.

I'm not sure if I believe NFB has the only effective way of training.
Again, I'm not knocking NFB since I'm a local member.  I think it's just
dangerous to say their the only game in town.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:18 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the quality 
of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the state 
is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the non-NFB 
programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by 
maintaining the status quo.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>
> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is no
> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local 
>> NFB
>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness. 
>> There
>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>
>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>> are
>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>
>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>> same
>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If 
>> the
>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way 
>> with
>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>> institutions.
>>
>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make 
>> up
>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>> center
>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going 
>>> to
>>> do
>>> much.
>>>
>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them why
>>> it
>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>>> not
>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>> not
>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>> the
>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>> things
>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>> agencies
>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>> National
>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid
>>>>> for
>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>> experienced?
>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> marc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>> little
>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>> system
>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>> consultant
>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>> consumers
>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>>> their
>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>> legislation
>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
>
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>> /
>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>> 01/11/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 
> 01/12/10
> 07:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
al.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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il.com



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Wed Jan 13 00:29:06 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:29:06 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>
	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>
	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>
	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>
	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com>
	<1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>
	<13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>
	<F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>
Message-ID: <A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC>

I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB centers 
compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the 
hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to make 
it in a NFB run center.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the 
> quality
> of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the 
> state
> is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the non-NFB
> programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by
> maintaining the status quo.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>
>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is 
>> no
>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local
>>> NFB
>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>> There
>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>
>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>>> are
>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>
>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>>> same
>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If
>>> the
>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>> with
>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>> institutions.
>>>
>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make
>>> up
>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>> center
>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going
>>>> to
>>>> do
>>>> much.
>>>>
>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them 
>>>> why
>>>> it
>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>>>> not
>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>>> not
>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>>> things
>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>> National
>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully 
>>>>>> paid
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>> /
>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>> 01/11/10
>>> 07:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>> 01/12/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
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>
>
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> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.137/2617 - Release Date: 01/12/10 
19:35:00



From taiablas at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 01:06:09 2010
From: taiablas at gmail.com (Tai Blas)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:06:09 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike><5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net><8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike><fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com><FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC><137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC><13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>
	<A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC>
Message-ID: <3E471724B9A74DD0A276766E4CD522AA@blind.state.ia.us>

Steve,

I respectfully disagree. I have heard folks say that the NFB centers only
take the "cream of the crop," not those whom you call "hard-luck" with
additional challenges who have a difficult time at other centers. I have
attended an NFB training center and the fact is that they take students of
all abilities and do an excellent job of rehabilitating them. These centers
do not pick and choose. The same cannot be said for most state centers,
Hawaii, Iowa, Nebraska, New Mexico, BISM, and Kris Cole, and possibly a few
others excluded. Some states, Utah included, are genuinely striving to
improve training and adjustment services for their blind clients. If you
placed a "hard-luck" client with sufficient motivation in a low-performing
state center and then placed them at an NFB training center or in one of the
high-performing state centers I mentioned above, they would progress and
improve much more at the NFB or NFB-model training center than in the
low-performing state center. Employment statistics highlight those centers
and agencies that are performing well in this regard and I am not talking
about placements in sheltered employment.

State VR programs pay for their clients to attend centers, whether in state
or out of state. They save no money by sending clients to a low-performing
center, only to have that client come back in two years having lost their
job and needing additional training. The program quality of high-performing
centers and the long-term benefits they provide to clients is worth any
difference in cost. Often, the difference between the difference in cost
between attending state centers and attending NFB centers is negligible.
These centers are not as expensive as you might think.

Tai

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:29 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB centers
compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the
hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to make
it in a NFB run center.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the 
> quality of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer 
> and the state is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive 
> some of the non-NFB programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a 
> lot of money by maintaining the status quo.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for 
>> the state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency 
>> is always trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>
>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states 
>> would crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  
>> It's been my experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not 
>> sure why there is no money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what 
>> I've experienced.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the 
>>> local NFB chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about 
>>> blindness.
>>> There
>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>
>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  
>>> They are tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>
>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, 
>>> then they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting 
>>> money on frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness 
>>> center, funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB 
>>> centers at those same tax payers expense.  That is just not right or 
>>> fiscally possible..  If the NFB wants these clients from states with 
>>> blindness centers in place to attend NFB centers, they should 
>>> establish scholarships or pay the way with NFB funding.  The 
>>> budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States with 
>>> blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is 
>>> like saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a 
>>> consumer to attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, 
>>> there limitedf resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer 
>>> wants to attend a private college, they need to pay the difference 
>>> or get scholarships to makeup the difference from what a state 
>>> agency is able to pay.  Usually, state agencies will pay for blind 
>>> consumers to attend in-state institutions.
>>>
>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must 
>>> make up the difference.  The same should go for the consumer 
>>> attending a NFB center if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to 
>>>> them in person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is 
>>>> really not going to do much.
>>>>
>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell 
>>>> them why it doesn't work explain it to them because they have no 
>>>> idea why things do not work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency 
>>>>> does not want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab 
>>>>> centers such as the NFB centers and rehab clients have had to 
>>>>> request hearings and other things to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state 
>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend 
>>>>>> National Federation of the blind training centers and they should 
>>>>>> be fully paid for by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please 
>>>>>> rewrite...."
>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is 
>>>>>> being experienced?
>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South 
>>>>>> Florida mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee 
>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 
>>>>>> 1993-2005 www.ada.gov Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence 
>>>>>> Against Women, USDOJ www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this 
>>>>>> have little if any real effect with Congress. It is much more 
>>>>>> effective to use a system of actual letters that can 
>>>>>> electronically be submitted to members of Congress and/or state 
>>>>>> legislators. Working with many groups as a consultant on 
>>>>>> legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While 
>>>>>> consumers definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend 
>>>>>> facilities of their choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 
>>>>>> 1973 or any other legislation will not get rewritten using this 
>>>>>> format.
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-a
>> ct-1973
>>> /
>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40
>> sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40po
>> box.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40
>> sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>> for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gm
>> ail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deel
>> ey%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>> 01/11/10
>>> 07:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse0
>> 8%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deel
>> ey%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>> 01/12/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse0
>> 8%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40
>> sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele
> y%40insightbb.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.137/2617 - Release Date: 01/12/10
19:35:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.c
om



From mhartle at nfb.org  Wed Jan 13 02:00:36 2010
From: mhartle at nfb.org (Hartle,
	Mary Jo)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:00:36 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] NFB LAW Program:  Deadline coming up soon--February 1,
	2010
Message-ID: <auto-000134727929@mailfront2.g2host.com>


The National Federation of the Blind Announces
The 2010 NFB Leadership and Advocacy in Washington, D.C., (LAW) Program
Engaging the Voice of America's Blind Youth

For Youth Grades 6-9 or Ages 12-16
April 16-20, 2010
Washington, D.C., and Baltimore, MD

This four-day experience will provide blind and low vision students 
with a unique opportunity to explore the inner workings of our 
country's government, its history, and its culture while staying at 
the national headquarters for the National Federation of the Blind in 
Baltimore, MD. In addition to learning about grassroots legislation 
efforts, how resolutions are passed, and how various blindness 
legislation is brought about, participants will learn more about 
advocacy work for blind individuals and available resources for blind 
students and adults.

Highlights of the Program include:
* Visits to historical sites in Washington, D.C.
* Meetings with, and presentations from, influential government leaders
* Presentations by influential leaders from the largest blindness 
advocacy group in the country
* Tours of the National Federation of the Blind national headquarters
* A visit to the International Braille and Technology Center, the 
largest lab of accessible technology for the blind

Program Details:
* Cost: There will be a $250 fee for accepted students.  All other 
expenses including transportation, room, and board will be provided
* All accepted students must be accompanied by a parent/guardian, 
teacher, or blind/low vision mentor from their home state
* No more than twenty-five participants from across the country will 
be accepted
* Applications are due by February 1, 2010, to be considered

To learn more about this exciting new program, or to apply online, 
please visit <http://www.nfb.org/LAWProgram>www.nfb.org/LAWProgram or 
contact Mary Jo T. Hartle, director of education at (410) 659-9314, 
ext. 2407,  or by e-mail at <mailto:mhartle at nfb.org>mhartle at nfb.org.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Mary Jo T. Hartle



Mary Jo Thorpe-Hartle, MEd, NOMC

Director of Education
Jernigan Institute
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND
200 East Wells Street
Baltimore, MD 21230
Phone: (410)659-9314 ext. 2407
Email: <mailto:mhartle at nfb.org>mhartle at nfb.org
Fax: (410) 659-5129
         Visit <http://www.nfb.org/>www.nfb.org


From goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan 13 02:42:30 2010
From: goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net (Sarah Clark)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 18:42:30 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
References: <006701ca9331$3822b640$6601a8c0@server>
	<13ff01ca93ab$a736d640$f5a482c0$@com>
Message-ID: <007b01ca93fa$0dcc7290$6701a8c0@computer2>

It doesn't take everyone getting more involved.  It just takes a few people 
who are being affected, along with a strong legal attack.  I think that is 
the point.  Lawyers are the ones with the power to force the change, if it 
is done carefully and calculated.

Sarah

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys


>I think all that you've suggested is really great.  I absolutely agree with
> the latter part of your e-mail.  It doesn't matter how much litigation is
> put forth if there is no fervor within the blind and visual impaired
> community.  Every example you gave was based upon a great demand within 
> each
> community.
>
> The question is, how do we get everyone more involved?
>
> Sometimes it seems as though many blind individuals, at least here where I
> am, tend to be sort of hermit like.  What do we do about that?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Dennis Clark
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:45 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
>
> If you are a blind lawyer or second or third year law student please read
> on.  We are privileged to be lawyers and this is an appeal for you to join
> with me to begin formulating a long term legal strategy which will enable 
> us
> as blind people to make the same kind of progress in kind and degree as
> other minority groups have made during the past 60 years.  This will 
> involve
> each of us becoming experts on the legal histories of women, blacks, and
> gays, to understand the seminal cases and legislation which has led to 
> their
> progress, and to develop a well thought out, cohesive legal theory for 
> blind
> civil rights which uses the issues and cases of these other groups as
> precedent or persuasive support for our own analogous legal claims.
>
> When I was in law school I was fortunate to get to know one of the 
> attorneys
> who worked on the Jackie Robinson law suit which integrated professional
> baseball.  He was a celebrated law professor and lawyer who participated 
> in
> this law suit as a volunteer civil rights lawyer for B'nai B'rith.  Most 
> of
> the successful civil rights cases which have led to the equality that 
> blacks
> benefit from today were fought by the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai
> B'rith both together and separately.  Thurgood Marshal was also a critical
> global thinker and player with the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and it was 
> those
> successes which led President Johnson to appoint him to the Supreme Court.
>
> My professor told me that the Jackie Robinson case was planned long before
> Jackie Robinson himself was identified as the best plaintiff for the case.
> In the 40's and 50's a group of very brilliant lawyers and law professors
> talked and met together frequently to create a long term legal strategy
> which could shape and reorient the law to achieve civil rights progress 
> for
> both blacks and Jews.  They carefully decided which cases needed to be
> brought ahead of other cases because obviously some cases will become
> seminal and have a larger impact on society than others.
>
> The decision to challenge professional baseballs prohibition against black
> players was one of these key strategic decisions.  Once it was decided to
> file this important case, they set out to find the right player to be the
> plaintiff.  He said that they knew they needed a player who was perfect in
> every way.  The player would need to be a great hitter and be pretty much
> qualified to play every other position on the field at a professional 
> level.
> The key was to have a player who was so unbelievable in every way so that
> any argument which could be made against hiring such a black player would 
> be
> clearly irrational, and as such based purely on racial prejudice.  Beyond
> this, he said that they needed a player who could emotionally withstand 
> the
> abuse which would be aimed at him by players and fans once the case was 
> won
> and he was hired.  He was going to be the target of much hatred, he would
> not be permitted to stay in hotels with the rest of the team in many 
> cities,
> he could not eat in the same restaurants as the rest of the team in many
> cities, and his life really could be at risk.  It was undeniable that this
> was going to take a very special person and they waited quite a while to
> file the suit until they found jus that right person, and that man was
> Jackie Robinson.
>
> The main point here is that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith
> didn't simply file cases willie nillie, but rather they chose cases
> carefully so as to move the courts along slowly but surely.  Filing a
> dubious case where there is a fifty fifty chance of losing would have been
> understood as potentially counter-productive.  Clearly if we as blind 
> people
> win a case we have a precedent in our favor, but if we lose a case this is 
> a
> setback because we have created a precedent that is contrary to our civil
> rights progress.
>
> I am confident that I will be attacked for this, but I believe that we 
> have
> steadily lost ground over the past 30 years in both education and
> employment.  Obviously today's young blind adults can not know this 
> because
> as is true for all people, our reality is shaped mostly by what we are
> experiencing.  Moreover there is a human prejudice that today must always 
> be
> better than yesterday.
>
> but my claim is that those of us who were teenagers and young adults in 
> the
> 60's and 70's had more opportunities than similarly situated blind people
> today.  When I took the PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE LSAT, and 4 bar exams, I was
> given fair exams by competent readers.  To have done less than this in 
> those
> days would have been regarded as unthinkable and absurd by the agencies
> providing these tests because it would have been thought as simply unfair.
> Today one is lucky if the reader provided by any of these agencies is 
> barely
> literate.
>
> For me most of these exams predated the ADA and my claim is that the ADA 
> is
> the problem.  I have dealt with a number of these agencies on behalf of
> disabled clients who have come to me for help, and I can tell you that the
> agencies think the ADA empowers them to simply give blind people a reader 
> of
> the agencies choosing.  On numerous occasions I have been told by
> representatives of these agencies that all they are required to do is
> provide a reader of their choosing.  I point out that the ADA says
> "qualified reader," not just a reader.  Inevitably they then claim that 
> all
> their readers are qualified even though they can not articulate what steps
> they have taken to verify this to be true.  Further discussion usually
> results in a very smug acknowledgement that they hold all the power and if
> we think we can do something about it then go ahead.  They are right.  We
> have become powerless, but that can change if those of us with law school
> educations come together and force a change.
>
> I would be curious to know how many blind students there are today at the 
> 5
> top ranked engineering schools in the U.S.  My guess is zero, but I hope I
> am wrong about this.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were a number of
> us.  I attended Stanford in Mechanical Engineering from 1977 to 1981 and 
> all
> of my materials were provided to me in Braille including thousands of 
> raised
> line drawings, and without these materials it would have been impossible 
> for
> me to do the program.  One of my engineering professors was a retired
> Admiral from the Navy and one day he asked me if an optacon would be 
> useful
> to me and if I would like one?  I told him that I had a little experience
> with it, but they cost $5000 and I wasn't sure that I could afford it or
> that it would be useful enough to justify the cost.  He had an interesting
> response.  He said, Dennis first of all Stanford is rich so they can 
> afford
> it.  Second, he said, "Stanford admitted you and it is Stanford's
> responsibility to provide you what ever resources you need to be
> successful."  Has anyone heard any professors today say anything like 
> this?
> I think not.  On these forums I have read of a blind college student being
> told by a professor that he could not play in the school band because he 
> was
> blind.  I would have thought that even the dumbest professor in the world
> could have gotten this right simply because of Ray Charles and Stevie
> Wonder.  I recall a law school dean at the University of Alaska stating 
> that
> a blind applicant could not be admitted because blind people can not be
> lawyers.
>
> Another of my professors was Robert Hofstadter.  He had a Nobel prize in
> Physics.  I approached him near the midterm, and asked him if we could
> arrange for someone to read the midterm to me.  He immediately responded,
> Well why don't you come to my office the morning of the test and I will 
> read
> it to you, which he did.  I have read of professors who now shoot their
> exams over to the disability services office to be read aloud by someone
> completely unable to read aloud.  The professor can't be bothered today.
> When we finished Professor Hofstadter said that he wished he could do this
> with every student because he would then really know what students did and
> didn't understand and he would then know what he needed to spend 
> additional
> time on in lectures.
>
> There was no disabled students office to function as an obstacle between 
> my
> professors and me.  There was no disabled students office which had the
> responsibility to provide me with Braille or readers or anything else, and
> this was a plus not a minus because today these offices frequently fall 
> down
> on the job and the student is left completely holding the bag.  No 
> business
> would rely on a vendor which comes through only 60 or 70 per cent of the
> time, particularly when the business has no power over the vendor.  This 
> is
> a formula for disaster and no sensible manager would do this yet blind
> students are now forced into this situation all the time.  Because of this
> lack of accountability by disabled students offices I have recently read a
> discussion where a blind student is asking how he can handle a college 
> math
> class using readers because he doesn't have a Braille math book.  No 
> sighted
> student would be expected to do college math without a print book and they
> can see the board.  During the past 20 years I am confident that we have
> spent tens of millions of dollars on disability student offices and the
> students now have less than we had in the 70's without all this money 
> having
> been spent.  Why?
>
> I  would argue that we as lawyers need to rethink our current situation 
> and
> get a handle on the legal twists and turns that brought us here.  My
> thinking is that we should begin by revisiting Plessy v. Ferguson an the 2
> law school cases which overturned Plessy.  The Supreme Court decided that
> separate but equal can never actually be equal, so Plessy was done away
> with.
>
> However, almost all the law which governs our lives, rights and
> opportunities as blind people is openly based on the notion that separate
> but unequal treatment for us is acceptable.  We actually spend most of our
> time as blind people asking for separate but unequal treatment as an
> accommodation.  Women, blacks, and gays do not do this.  They are clear 
> that
> separate is always unequal and they are having none of it.
>
> Consider this.  When I was in law school an issue arose concerning women 
> law
> school students.  For some reason there is a shower in one of the men's
> restrooms at the University of Chicago Law School.  The law school was 
> built
> in the 50's before there were many if any women law students.  There are
> certainly women's restrooms, but none with a shower.
>
> Men and women alike have taken in recent years to exercising while at 
> school
> and some of them wish to shower after they run or exercise.  This is not a
> problem for men since there is a shower, but what can women do?  It was
> initially proposed that women could go over to the main campus to the gym
> and shower there.  This is about 4 blocks from the law school across the
> midway.  This was a no go as far as women were concerned.  They asked why
> should they have to go a total of 8 blocks round trip to shower when men
> could shower without leaving the law school?  At first the administration
> argued that since women needed to shower because they were already
> exercising then why wouldn't they be willing to go across campus since a
> little additional exercise was all that was being proposed?  However, the
> universal consensus of men and women alike based on common sense and basic
> fairness was that this was not acceptable.  It was viewed as pretty much
> obvious that it would be unfair to expect women to have to do more than 
> men
> when they engaged in the same activity as men.  I dare say that those
> reading this would probably agree and I'm asking you to keep on that same
> fairness hat when you consider the following question.
>
> Why is it fair for a blind person to have to take twice as long on an exam
> as a sighted person in order to obtain an equivalent valid score?  My 
> claim
> is that it is not fair and women would not put up with it for a second.
> Women would tell you to figure out how to do it with out them taking on 
> any
> burden which is greater than that of men.  They would be right.  As a 
> matter
> of testing science and methodology it is possible to create an exam which
> blind people could take in the same length of time which would be equally
> valid, but it is not being done because we have permitted them to dump the
> burden of accommodation on us rather than requiring them to spend more 
> money
> validating their standardized tests.
>
> Would a professional quarterback ever be expected to play football in an
> important game with a center that he has never had the opportunity to
> practice with?  No.  This would be regarded as absurd and totally unfair.
> Yet we are expected to work with readers on exams that our entire futures
> and jobs are dependent upon; with readers who we've never met, tested or
> practiced with and who often can not even read English aloud accurately.
> Women would not put up with this.  Blacks would not put up with this.  We
> do, and the reason we do is that we feel powerless to do anything about 
> it.
> We have come to think like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire, that we 
> must
> depend on the kindness of strangers.
>
> I worked for 5 years for a very large law firm, and we never ourselves, 
> nor
> did we ever advise our clients to depend on the kindness of the other 
> side.
> The parties on the other side wanted to win because they wanted their own
> way, and our clients also wanted to win because they wanted their own way.
> There was no kindness on either side and that is how it should be in 
> matters
> of law.  As lawyers it is our mandated responsibility to zealously 
> represent
> our clients which means it is our job to fight them with everything we 
> have
> to make certain that our clients win.  That's what lawyers do.  We are
> privileged to be lawyers.  We have one power that no one else has.  As all
> non lawyers must acknowledge, you can write thousands of letters to 
> someone
> trying to get them to talk with you and they can throw them in the trash.
> You can light up their switchboard all day long with phone calls and they
> can tell the operator to say that they are not in.  However, we as lawyers
> have the power to force them to talk with us simply by serving a complaint
> on them and they will definitely talk with us in front of a judge.  They
> will not ignore that.
>
> I'm sure I have offended some, bored most, and confused others.  But if 
> you
> are a lawyer and I have struck a chord with you and reawakened for a 
> moment
> a memory of why you went to law school to begin with, please contact me. 
> We
> have the knowledge and the power to make real change for blind people if 
> we
> choose to come together like the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai 
> B'rith.
> Thanks for reading and I hope to talk with you.
>
> Warmest regards,
> Dennis
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
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> blindlaw:
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From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan 13 06:05:10 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 22:05:10 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <14dd01ca93d6$773e0c80$65ba2580$@com>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>	<13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>
	<14dd01ca93d6$773e0c80$65ba2580$@com>
Message-ID: <AC7B3740E49B4389A6B4ACC2FA1895EC@spike>

my point is that cost benefit analysis as well as outcome analysis needs to 
be conducted to quantify the benefits of NFB programs compared to other 
types of programs. By conducting statistical analysis the quality of life 
for blind participants would be improved by working an objective model 
rather than subjective anecdotes or preferences. Perhaps some of this 
research has been done at some point. Not currently being employed in the 
field I can't say though.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


>I agree that it's more cost effective to train someone to live
> independently.  There's a better chance of self-sustainment.
>
> I'm not sure if I believe NFB has the only effective way of training.
> Again, I'm not knocking NFB since I'm a local member.  I think it's just
> dangerous to say their the only game in town.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:18 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the 
> quality
> of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the 
> state
> is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the non-NFB
> programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by
> maintaining the status quo.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>
>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is 
>> no
>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local
>>> NFB
>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>> There
>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>
>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>>> are
>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>
>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>>> same
>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If
>>> the
>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>> with
>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>> institutions.
>>>
>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make
>>> up
>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>> center
>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going
>>>> to
>>>> do
>>>> much.
>>>>
>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them 
>>>> why
>>>> it
>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>>>> not
>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>>> not
>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>>> things
>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>> National
>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully 
>>>>>> paid
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>> /
>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
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> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan 13 07:01:05 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 23:01:05 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike><5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net><8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike><fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com><FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC><137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC><13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>
	<A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC>
Message-ID: <A1F958204EA643E28FC08D017343D0AC@spike>

dthat's a valid point as many consumers expect their hands to be held every 
step of the way and beyond.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


>I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB centers 
>compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the 
>hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to make 
>it in a NFB run center.
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the 
>> quality
>> of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the 
>> state
>> is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the non-NFB
>> programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by
>> maintaining the status quo.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
>>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is 
>>> always
>>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>>
>>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states 
>>> would
>>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been 
>>> my
>>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is 
>>> no
>>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local
>>>> NFB
>>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>>> There
>>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>>
>>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>>>> are
>>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>>
>>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, 
>>>> then
>>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>>>> same
>>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If
>>>> the
>>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>>> with
>>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit. 
>>>> States
>>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB 
>>>> centers.
>>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay. 
>>>> Usually,
>>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>>> institutions.
>>>>
>>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make
>>>> up
>>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>>> center
>>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them 
>>>>> in
>>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going
>>>>> to
>>>>> do
>>>>> much.
>>>>>
>>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them 
>>>>> why
>>>>> it
>>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things 
>>>>> do
>>>>> not
>>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>>
>>>>> James
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>>> agencies
>>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>>> National
>>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully 
>>>>>>> paid
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>>> /
>>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>>> 01/11/10
>>>> 07:35:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>>> il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>>> 01/12/10
>>> 07:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.137/2617 - Release Date: 
> 01/12/10 19:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 09:14:33 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 03:14:33 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <A1F958204EA643E28FC08D017343D0AC@spike>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike><5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net><8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike><fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com><FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC><137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC><13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>	<A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC>
	<A1F958204EA643E28FC08D017343D0AC@spike>
Message-ID: <15ce01ca9430$d2aaa420$77ffec60$@com>

Are we talking about persons with brand new blindness?  I hope not.  People
can't start out knowing everything to do...there is a process.  After
awhile, you shouldn't need that but at the beginning there is quite a bit of
psychological retraining.  So, I hope we aren't talking about the beginning
stages...

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:01 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

dthat's a valid point as many consumers expect their hands to be held every 
step of the way and beyond.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


>I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB centers

>compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the 
>hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to make 
>it in a NFB run center.
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the 
>> quality
>> of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the 
>> state
>> is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the non-NFB
>> programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by
>> maintaining the status quo.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
>>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is 
>>> always
>>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>>
>>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states 
>>> would
>>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been 
>>> my
>>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is 
>>> no
>>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local
>>>> NFB
>>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>>> There
>>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>>
>>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>>>> are
>>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>>
>>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, 
>>>> then
>>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>>>> same
>>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If
>>>> the
>>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>>> with
>>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit. 
>>>> States
>>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB 
>>>> centers.
>>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay. 
>>>> Usually,
>>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>>> institutions.
>>>>
>>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make
>>>> up
>>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>>> center
>>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them 
>>>>> in
>>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going
>>>>> to
>>>>> do
>>>>> much.
>>>>>
>>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them 
>>>>> why
>>>>> it
>>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things 
>>>>> do
>>>>> not
>>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>>
>>>>> James
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>>> agencies
>>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>>> National
>>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully 
>>>>>>> paid
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>>> /
>>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>> ----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>>> 01/11/10
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>>>>
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>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>
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>>>> il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>>> 01/12/10
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>
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>>> il.com
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>>>
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>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
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al.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>>
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sightbb.com
>
>
>
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----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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> 01/12/10 19:35:00
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From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 09:17:25 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 03:17:25 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <AC7B3740E49B4389A6B4ACC2FA1895EC@spike>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>	<13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>	<14dd01ca93d6$773e0c80$65ba2580$@com>
	<AC7B3740E49B4389A6B4ACC2FA1895EC@spike>
Message-ID: <15cf01ca9431$3926e880$ab74b980$@com>

I understood your point.  I just don't think in turn that NFB should be
looked at as the only game without that statistical data you spoke of.
There's no disagreement about that.  Plus, one shoe doesn't fit all.  I
don't think there is disagreement, just a different approach or wording.
That's all...

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 12:05 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

my point is that cost benefit analysis as well as outcome analysis needs to 
be conducted to quantify the benefits of NFB programs compared to other 
types of programs. By conducting statistical analysis the quality of life 
for blind participants would be improved by working an objective model 
rather than subjective anecdotes or preferences. Perhaps some of this 
research has been done at some point. Not currently being employed in the 
field I can't say though.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


>I agree that it's more cost effective to train someone to live
> independently.  There's a better chance of self-sustainment.
>
> I'm not sure if I believe NFB has the only effective way of training.
> Again, I'm not knocking NFB since I'm a local member.  I think it's just
> dangerous to say their the only game in town.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:18 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the 
> quality
> of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the 
> state
> is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the non-NFB
> programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by
> maintaining the status quo.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>
>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is 
>> no
>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local
>>> NFB
>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>> There
>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>
>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>>> are
>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>
>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>>> same
>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If
>>> the
>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>> with
>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>> institutions.
>>>
>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make
>>> up
>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>> center
>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going
>>>> to
>>>> do
>>>> much.
>>>>
>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them 
>>>> why
>>>> it
>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>>>> not
>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>>> not
>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>>> things
>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>> National
>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully 
>>>>>> paid
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>> /
>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>> 01/11/10
>>> 07:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>> 01/12/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
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> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
al.net 


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From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 09:19:55 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 03:19:55 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
In-Reply-To: <007b01ca93fa$0dcc7290$6701a8c0@computer2>
References: <006701ca9331$3822b640$6601a8c0@server>	<13ff01ca93ab$a736d640$f5a482c0$@com>
	<007b01ca93fa$0dcc7290$6701a8c0@computer2>
Message-ID: <15d001ca9431$928860c0$b7992240$@com>

Well, I wasn't disagreeing with the strategy but in every example that was
given there was a great demand from the people being affected.  So that was
my point.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Sarah Clark
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:42 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys

It doesn't take everyone getting more involved.  It just takes a few people 
who are being affected, along with a strong legal attack.  I think that is 
the point.  Lawyers are the ones with the power to force the change, if it 
is done carefully and calculated.

Sarah

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys


>I think all that you've suggested is really great.  I absolutely agree with
> the latter part of your e-mail.  It doesn't matter how much litigation is
> put forth if there is no fervor within the blind and visual impaired
> community.  Every example you gave was based upon a great demand within 
> each
> community.
>
> The question is, how do we get everyone more involved?
>
> Sometimes it seems as though many blind individuals, at least here where I
> am, tend to be sort of hermit like.  What do we do about that?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Dennis Clark
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:45 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
>
> If you are a blind lawyer or second or third year law student please read
> on.  We are privileged to be lawyers and this is an appeal for you to join
> with me to begin formulating a long term legal strategy which will enable 
> us
> as blind people to make the same kind of progress in kind and degree as
> other minority groups have made during the past 60 years.  This will 
> involve
> each of us becoming experts on the legal histories of women, blacks, and
> gays, to understand the seminal cases and legislation which has led to 
> their
> progress, and to develop a well thought out, cohesive legal theory for 
> blind
> civil rights which uses the issues and cases of these other groups as
> precedent or persuasive support for our own analogous legal claims.
>
> When I was in law school I was fortunate to get to know one of the 
> attorneys
> who worked on the Jackie Robinson law suit which integrated professional
> baseball.  He was a celebrated law professor and lawyer who participated 
> in
> this law suit as a volunteer civil rights lawyer for B'nai B'rith.  Most 
> of
> the successful civil rights cases which have led to the equality that 
> blacks
> benefit from today were fought by the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai
> B'rith both together and separately.  Thurgood Marshal was also a critical
> global thinker and player with the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and it was 
> those
> successes which led President Johnson to appoint him to the Supreme Court.
>
> My professor told me that the Jackie Robinson case was planned long before
> Jackie Robinson himself was identified as the best plaintiff for the case.
> In the 40's and 50's a group of very brilliant lawyers and law professors
> talked and met together frequently to create a long term legal strategy
> which could shape and reorient the law to achieve civil rights progress 
> for
> both blacks and Jews.  They carefully decided which cases needed to be
> brought ahead of other cases because obviously some cases will become
> seminal and have a larger impact on society than others.
>
> The decision to challenge professional baseballs prohibition against black
> players was one of these key strategic decisions.  Once it was decided to
> file this important case, they set out to find the right player to be the
> plaintiff.  He said that they knew they needed a player who was perfect in
> every way.  The player would need to be a great hitter and be pretty much
> qualified to play every other position on the field at a professional 
> level.
> The key was to have a player who was so unbelievable in every way so that
> any argument which could be made against hiring such a black player would 
> be
> clearly irrational, and as such based purely on racial prejudice.  Beyond
> this, he said that they needed a player who could emotionally withstand 
> the
> abuse which would be aimed at him by players and fans once the case was 
> won
> and he was hired.  He was going to be the target of much hatred, he would
> not be permitted to stay in hotels with the rest of the team in many 
> cities,
> he could not eat in the same restaurants as the rest of the team in many
> cities, and his life really could be at risk.  It was undeniable that this
> was going to take a very special person and they waited quite a while to
> file the suit until they found jus that right person, and that man was
> Jackie Robinson.
>
> The main point here is that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith
> didn't simply file cases willie nillie, but rather they chose cases
> carefully so as to move the courts along slowly but surely.  Filing a
> dubious case where there is a fifty fifty chance of losing would have been
> understood as potentially counter-productive.  Clearly if we as blind 
> people
> win a case we have a precedent in our favor, but if we lose a case this is

> a
> setback because we have created a precedent that is contrary to our civil
> rights progress.
>
> I am confident that I will be attacked for this, but I believe that we 
> have
> steadily lost ground over the past 30 years in both education and
> employment.  Obviously today's young blind adults can not know this 
> because
> as is true for all people, our reality is shaped mostly by what we are
> experiencing.  Moreover there is a human prejudice that today must always 
> be
> better than yesterday.
>
> but my claim is that those of us who were teenagers and young adults in 
> the
> 60's and 70's had more opportunities than similarly situated blind people
> today.  When I took the PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE LSAT, and 4 bar exams, I was
> given fair exams by competent readers.  To have done less than this in 
> those
> days would have been regarded as unthinkable and absurd by the agencies
> providing these tests because it would have been thought as simply unfair.
> Today one is lucky if the reader provided by any of these agencies is 
> barely
> literate.
>
> For me most of these exams predated the ADA and my claim is that the ADA 
> is
> the problem.  I have dealt with a number of these agencies on behalf of
> disabled clients who have come to me for help, and I can tell you that the
> agencies think the ADA empowers them to simply give blind people a reader 
> of
> the agencies choosing.  On numerous occasions I have been told by
> representatives of these agencies that all they are required to do is
> provide a reader of their choosing.  I point out that the ADA says
> "qualified reader," not just a reader.  Inevitably they then claim that 
> all
> their readers are qualified even though they can not articulate what steps
> they have taken to verify this to be true.  Further discussion usually
> results in a very smug acknowledgement that they hold all the power and if
> we think we can do something about it then go ahead.  They are right.  We
> have become powerless, but that can change if those of us with law school
> educations come together and force a change.
>
> I would be curious to know how many blind students there are today at the 
> 5
> top ranked engineering schools in the U.S.  My guess is zero, but I hope I
> am wrong about this.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were a number of
> us.  I attended Stanford in Mechanical Engineering from 1977 to 1981 and 
> all
> of my materials were provided to me in Braille including thousands of 
> raised
> line drawings, and without these materials it would have been impossible 
> for
> me to do the program.  One of my engineering professors was a retired
> Admiral from the Navy and one day he asked me if an optacon would be 
> useful
> to me and if I would like one?  I told him that I had a little experience
> with it, but they cost $5000 and I wasn't sure that I could afford it or
> that it would be useful enough to justify the cost.  He had an interesting
> response.  He said, Dennis first of all Stanford is rich so they can 
> afford
> it.  Second, he said, "Stanford admitted you and it is Stanford's
> responsibility to provide you what ever resources you need to be
> successful."  Has anyone heard any professors today say anything like 
> this?
> I think not.  On these forums I have read of a blind college student being
> told by a professor that he could not play in the school band because he 
> was
> blind.  I would have thought that even the dumbest professor in the world
> could have gotten this right simply because of Ray Charles and Stevie
> Wonder.  I recall a law school dean at the University of Alaska stating 
> that
> a blind applicant could not be admitted because blind people can not be
> lawyers.
>
> Another of my professors was Robert Hofstadter.  He had a Nobel prize in
> Physics.  I approached him near the midterm, and asked him if we could
> arrange for someone to read the midterm to me.  He immediately responded,
> Well why don't you come to my office the morning of the test and I will 
> read
> it to you, which he did.  I have read of professors who now shoot their
> exams over to the disability services office to be read aloud by someone
> completely unable to read aloud.  The professor can't be bothered today.
> When we finished Professor Hofstadter said that he wished he could do this
> with every student because he would then really know what students did and
> didn't understand and he would then know what he needed to spend 
> additional
> time on in lectures.
>
> There was no disabled students office to function as an obstacle between 
> my
> professors and me.  There was no disabled students office which had the
> responsibility to provide me with Braille or readers or anything else, and
> this was a plus not a minus because today these offices frequently fall 
> down
> on the job and the student is left completely holding the bag.  No 
> business
> would rely on a vendor which comes through only 60 or 70 per cent of the
> time, particularly when the business has no power over the vendor.  This 
> is
> a formula for disaster and no sensible manager would do this yet blind
> students are now forced into this situation all the time.  Because of this
> lack of accountability by disabled students offices I have recently read a
> discussion where a blind student is asking how he can handle a college 
> math
> class using readers because he doesn't have a Braille math book.  No 
> sighted
> student would be expected to do college math without a print book and they
> can see the board.  During the past 20 years I am confident that we have
> spent tens of millions of dollars on disability student offices and the
> students now have less than we had in the 70's without all this money 
> having
> been spent.  Why?
>
> I  would argue that we as lawyers need to rethink our current situation 
> and
> get a handle on the legal twists and turns that brought us here.  My
> thinking is that we should begin by revisiting Plessy v. Ferguson an the 2
> law school cases which overturned Plessy.  The Supreme Court decided that
> separate but equal can never actually be equal, so Plessy was done away
> with.
>
> However, almost all the law which governs our lives, rights and
> opportunities as blind people is openly based on the notion that separate
> but unequal treatment for us is acceptable.  We actually spend most of our
> time as blind people asking for separate but unequal treatment as an
> accommodation.  Women, blacks, and gays do not do this.  They are clear 
> that
> separate is always unequal and they are having none of it.
>
> Consider this.  When I was in law school an issue arose concerning women 
> law
> school students.  For some reason there is a shower in one of the men's
> restrooms at the University of Chicago Law School.  The law school was 
> built
> in the 50's before there were many if any women law students.  There are
> certainly women's restrooms, but none with a shower.
>
> Men and women alike have taken in recent years to exercising while at 
> school
> and some of them wish to shower after they run or exercise.  This is not a
> problem for men since there is a shower, but what can women do?  It was
> initially proposed that women could go over to the main campus to the gym
> and shower there.  This is about 4 blocks from the law school across the
> midway.  This was a no go as far as women were concerned.  They asked why
> should they have to go a total of 8 blocks round trip to shower when men
> could shower without leaving the law school?  At first the administration
> argued that since women needed to shower because they were already
> exercising then why wouldn't they be willing to go across campus since a
> little additional exercise was all that was being proposed?  However, the
> universal consensus of men and women alike based on common sense and basic
> fairness was that this was not acceptable.  It was viewed as pretty much
> obvious that it would be unfair to expect women to have to do more than 
> men
> when they engaged in the same activity as men.  I dare say that those
> reading this would probably agree and I'm asking you to keep on that same
> fairness hat when you consider the following question.
>
> Why is it fair for a blind person to have to take twice as long on an exam
> as a sighted person in order to obtain an equivalent valid score?  My 
> claim
> is that it is not fair and women would not put up with it for a second.
> Women would tell you to figure out how to do it with out them taking on 
> any
> burden which is greater than that of men.  They would be right.  As a 
> matter
> of testing science and methodology it is possible to create an exam which
> blind people could take in the same length of time which would be equally
> valid, but it is not being done because we have permitted them to dump the
> burden of accommodation on us rather than requiring them to spend more 
> money
> validating their standardized tests.
>
> Would a professional quarterback ever be expected to play football in an
> important game with a center that he has never had the opportunity to
> practice with?  No.  This would be regarded as absurd and totally unfair.
> Yet we are expected to work with readers on exams that our entire futures
> and jobs are dependent upon; with readers who we've never met, tested or
> practiced with and who often can not even read English aloud accurately.
> Women would not put up with this.  Blacks would not put up with this.  We
> do, and the reason we do is that we feel powerless to do anything about 
> it.
> We have come to think like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire, that we 
> must
> depend on the kindness of strangers.
>
> I worked for 5 years for a very large law firm, and we never ourselves, 
> nor
> did we ever advise our clients to depend on the kindness of the other 
> side.
> The parties on the other side wanted to win because they wanted their own
> way, and our clients also wanted to win because they wanted their own way.
> There was no kindness on either side and that is how it should be in 
> matters
> of law.  As lawyers it is our mandated responsibility to zealously 
> represent
> our clients which means it is our job to fight them with everything we 
> have
> to make certain that our clients win.  That's what lawyers do.  We are
> privileged to be lawyers.  We have one power that no one else has.  As all
> non lawyers must acknowledge, you can write thousands of letters to 
> someone
> trying to get them to talk with you and they can throw them in the trash.
> You can light up their switchboard all day long with phone calls and they
> can tell the operator to say that they are not in.  However, we as lawyers
> have the power to force them to talk with us simply by serving a complaint
> on them and they will definitely talk with us in front of a judge.  They
> will not ignore that.
>
> I'm sure I have offended some, bored most, and confused others.  But if 
> you
> are a lawyer and I have struck a chord with you and reawakened for a 
> moment
> a memory of why you went to law school to begin with, please contact me. 
> We
> have the knowledge and the power to make real change for blind people if 
> we
> choose to come together like the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai 
> B'rith.
> Thanks for reading and I hope to talk with you.
>
> Warmest regards,
> Dennis
> _______________________________________________
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> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
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> blindlaw:
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From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 09:25:00 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 03:25:00 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <3E471724B9A74DD0A276766E4CD522AA@blind.state.ia.us>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike><5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net><8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike><fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com><FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC><137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC><13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>	<A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC>
	<3E471724B9A74DD0A276766E4CD522AA@blind.state.ia.us>
Message-ID: <15d701ca9432$4859c9c0$d90d5d40$@com>

Very valid.  What are these horrible institutions though.  I would like to
know.  I'm really glad that you named the good ones.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Tai Blas
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 7:06 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

Steve,

I respectfully disagree. I have heard folks say that the NFB centers only
take the "cream of the crop," not those whom you call "hard-luck" with
additional challenges who have a difficult time at other centers. I have
attended an NFB training center and the fact is that they take students of
all abilities and do an excellent job of rehabilitating them. These centers
do not pick and choose. The same cannot be said for most state centers,
Hawaii, Iowa, Nebraska, New Mexico, BISM, and Kris Cole, and possibly a few
others excluded. Some states, Utah included, are genuinely striving to
improve training and adjustment services for their blind clients. If you
placed a "hard-luck" client with sufficient motivation in a low-performing
state center and then placed them at an NFB training center or in one of the
high-performing state centers I mentioned above, they would progress and
improve much more at the NFB or NFB-model training center than in the
low-performing state center. Employment statistics highlight those centers
and agencies that are performing well in this regard and I am not talking
about placements in sheltered employment.

State VR programs pay for their clients to attend centers, whether in state
or out of state. They save no money by sending clients to a low-performing
center, only to have that client come back in two years having lost their
job and needing additional training. The program quality of high-performing
centers and the long-term benefits they provide to clients is worth any
difference in cost. Often, the difference between the difference in cost
between attending state centers and attending NFB centers is negligible.
These centers are not as expensive as you might think.

Tai

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:29 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB centers
compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the
hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to make
it in a NFB run center.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the 
> quality of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer 
> and the state is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive 
> some of the non-NFB programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a 
> lot of money by maintaining the status quo.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for 
>> the state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency 
>> is always trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>
>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states 
>> would crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  
>> It's been my experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not 
>> sure why there is no money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what 
>> I've experienced.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the 
>>> local NFB chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about 
>>> blindness.
>>> There
>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>
>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  
>>> They are tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>
>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, 
>>> then they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting 
>>> money on frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness 
>>> center, funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB 
>>> centers at those same tax payers expense.  That is just not right or 
>>> fiscally possible..  If the NFB wants these clients from states with 
>>> blindness centers in place to attend NFB centers, they should 
>>> establish scholarships or pay the way with NFB funding.  The 
>>> budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States with 
>>> blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is 
>>> like saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a 
>>> consumer to attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, 
>>> there limitedf resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer 
>>> wants to attend a private college, they need to pay the difference 
>>> or get scholarships to makeup the difference from what a state 
>>> agency is able to pay.  Usually, state agencies will pay for blind 
>>> consumers to attend in-state institutions.
>>>
>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must 
>>> make up the difference.  The same should go for the consumer 
>>> attending a NFB center if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to 
>>>> them in person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is 
>>>> really not going to do much.
>>>>
>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell 
>>>> them why it doesn't work explain it to them because they have no 
>>>> idea why things do not work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency 
>>>>> does not want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab 
>>>>> centers such as the NFB centers and rehab clients have had to 
>>>>> request hearings and other things to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state 
>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend 
>>>>>> National Federation of the blind training centers and they should 
>>>>>> be fully paid for by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please 
>>>>>> rewrite...."
>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is 
>>>>>> being experienced?
>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South 
>>>>>> Florida mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee 
>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 
>>>>>> 1993-2005 www.ada.gov Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence 
>>>>>> Against Women, USDOJ www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this 
>>>>>> have little if any real effect with Congress. It is much more 
>>>>>> effective to use a system of actual letters that can 
>>>>>> electronically be submitted to members of Congress and/or state 
>>>>>> legislators. Working with many groups as a consultant on 
>>>>>> legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While 
>>>>>> consumers definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend 
>>>>>> facilities of their choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 
>>>>>> 1973 or any other legislation will not get rewritten using this 
>>>>>> format.
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-a
>> ct-1973
>>> /
>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40
>> sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40po
>> box.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40
>> sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>> for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gm
>> ail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deel
>> ey%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse0
>> 8%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deel
>> ey%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>> 01/12/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse0
>> 8%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40
>> sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele
> y%40insightbb.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.137/2617 - Release Date: 01/12/10
19:35:00


_______________________________________________
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blindlaw:
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il.com



From david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us  Wed Jan 13 14:24:26 2010
From: david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us (Hyde, David W. (ESC))
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 08:24:26 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Colored Canes
Message-ID: <8FE3DA4A52652B4D8EC80883B3DC12336733A91CB1@tiger>

I have a request for information from a colleague. Recently, a Canadian firm has begun marketing canes for blind persons in various colors. Most states have laws specifically recognizing white canes, white canes with red tips or (see Oregon statutes) white canes with chartreuse tips for the deaf blind. Now, by applying the law excluding contributory negligence (e.g. the failure to use a can or dog guide is not considered evidence of negligence on the part of the blind person) the colored canes might be included defacto. Does anyone know whether either U.S. or for that matter, other law has included canes of a solid color other than white?

Thanks, folks. Seeing Michael Freeman on here, I know that I'm not the only non-lawyer on here.


David Hyde, Professional Development Coordinator Wisconsin Center for the Blind and Visually Impaired 1700 W. State Street Janesville WI 53546

608-758-6152 (office)

608-751-0960 (cell)

608-758-6169 (fax)

866-284-1107 ext. 34 (toll free)

email

david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan 13 20:39:37 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:39:37 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <15ce01ca9430$d2aaa420$77ffec60$@com>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike><5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net><8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike><fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com><FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC><137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC><13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>	<A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC><A1F958204EA643E28FC08D017343D0AC@spike>
	<15ce01ca9430$d2aaa420$77ffec60$@com>
Message-ID: <6A5758A433EB4E3ABC5E1A06DC8D5C25@spike>

I was referring to those people who have had many opportunities to learn 
what they needed to do and chose not to avail themselves of the options 
available to them. As we know there are some people who will use their 
disabilities in ways that are opportunistic. I know that having been born 
blind it is sometimes easy to forget the impact of adjustment that someone 
goes through when they have lost vision.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> Are we talking about persons with brand new blindness?  I hope not. 
> People
> can't start out knowing everything to do...there is a process.  After
> awhile, you shouldn't need that but at the beginning there is quite a bit 
> of
> psychological retraining.  So, I hope we aren't talking about the 
> beginning
> stages...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:01 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> dthat's a valid point as many consumers expect their hands to be held 
> every
> step of the way and beyond.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>>I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB 
>>centers
>
>>compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the
>>hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to make
>>it in a NFB run center.
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the
>>> quality
>>> of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the
>>> state
>>> is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the non-NFB
>>> programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by
>>> maintaining the status quo.
>>> Chuck
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for 
>>>> the
>>>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is
>>>> always
>>>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>>>
>>>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states
>>>> would
>>>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been
>>>> my
>>>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is
>>>> no
>>>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local
>>>>> NFB
>>>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>>>> There
>>>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not. 
>>>>> They
>>>>> are
>>>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution,
>>>>> then
>>>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness 
>>>>> center,
>>>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>>>>> same
>>>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>>>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>>>> with
>>>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.
>>>>> States
>>>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB
>>>>> centers.
>>>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>>>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer 
>>>>> to
>>>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend 
>>>>> a
>>>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships 
>>>>> to
>>>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.
>>>>> Usually,
>>>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>>>> institutions.
>>>>>
>>>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must 
>>>>> make
>>>>> up
>>>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>>>> center
>>>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not 
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them
>>>>>> why
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> James
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency 
>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such 
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>>>> agencies
>>>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>>>> National
>>>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully
>>>>>>>> paid
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is 
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South 
>>>>>>>> Florida
>>>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use 
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members 
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>>>> /
>>>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ----
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>>>> 01/11/10
>>>>> 07:35:00
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>>>> 01/12/10
>>>> 07:35:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>>> il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.137/2617 - Release Date:
>> 01/12/10 19:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 20:44:55 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 14:44:55 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <6A5758A433EB4E3ABC5E1A06DC8D5C25@spike>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike><5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net><8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike><fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com><FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC><137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC><13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>	<A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC><A1F958204EA643E28FC08D017343D0AC@spike>	<15ce01ca9430$d2aaa420$77ffec60$@com>
	<6A5758A433EB4E3ABC5E1A06DC8D5C25@spike>
Message-ID: <015801ca9491$4434a4f0$cc9deed0$@com>

OK, thanks for clarifying that.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 2:40 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

I was referring to those people who have had many opportunities to learn 
what they needed to do and chose not to avail themselves of the options 
available to them. As we know there are some people who will use their 
disabilities in ways that are opportunistic. I know that having been born 
blind it is sometimes easy to forget the impact of adjustment that someone 
goes through when they have lost vision.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> Are we talking about persons with brand new blindness?  I hope not. 
> People
> can't start out knowing everything to do...there is a process.  After
> awhile, you shouldn't need that but at the beginning there is quite a bit 
> of
> psychological retraining.  So, I hope we aren't talking about the 
> beginning
> stages...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:01 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> dthat's a valid point as many consumers expect their hands to be held 
> every
> step of the way and beyond.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>>I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB 
>>centers
>
>>compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the
>>hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to make
>>it in a NFB run center.
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the
>>> quality
>>> of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the
>>> state
>>> is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the non-NFB
>>> programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by
>>> maintaining the status quo.
>>> Chuck
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for 
>>>> the
>>>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is
>>>> always
>>>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>>>
>>>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states
>>>> would
>>>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been
>>>> my
>>>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is
>>>> no
>>>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local
>>>>> NFB
>>>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>>>> There
>>>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not. 
>>>>> They
>>>>> are
>>>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution,
>>>>> then
>>>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness 
>>>>> center,
>>>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>>>>> same
>>>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>>>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>>>> with
>>>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.
>>>>> States
>>>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB
>>>>> centers.
>>>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>>>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer 
>>>>> to
>>>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend 
>>>>> a
>>>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships 
>>>>> to
>>>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.
>>>>> Usually,
>>>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>>>> institutions.
>>>>>
>>>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must 
>>>>> make
>>>>> up
>>>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>>>> center
>>>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not 
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them
>>>>>> why
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> James
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency 
>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such 
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>>>> agencies
>>>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>>>> National
>>>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully
>>>>>>>> paid
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is 
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South 
>>>>>>>> Florida
>>>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use 
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members 
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>>>> /
>>>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ----
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>>>> 01/11/10
>>>>> 07:35:00
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>>>> 01/12/10
>>>> 07:35:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>>> il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.137/2617 - Release Date:
>> 01/12/10 19:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
al.net 


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From b75205 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 02:26:57 2010
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:26:57 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
In-Reply-To: <15d001ca9431$928860c0$b7992240$@com>
References: <006701ca9331$3822b640$6601a8c0@server>
	<13ff01ca93ab$a736d640$f5a482c0$@com>
	<007b01ca93fa$0dcc7290$6701a8c0@computer2>
	<15d001ca9431$928860c0$b7992240$@com>
Message-ID: <fe5b78281001131826i6f464c8bo5156649cc09474be@mail.gmail.com>

Last year I made the National Voter Registration form to be accessible to
the blind.  It was tested by the American Foundation for the Blind, the NFB
and Jim Dickson, the Vice President of the American Association of People
with Disabilities presented it to the EAC, the Elections Assistance
Commission which is in charge of elections.  They decided that their
webmaster could do the job and ignored the advice of these organizations.
The Voting Rights Division of the ACLU was monitoring this work as they
thought it was a violation of the Voting Rights Act.

The law for the Voting Rights Act is particularly effective in this case
becasue the consequences of denying the blind to register to vote is the
removal of the sovereignty of the states.  The 14th Amendment Section 2 is
invoked which strips a state of its representation in Congress when they
deny a group of people the right to vote.  Everyone who went through the
Civil Rights movement knows about Literacy tests and poll taxes and the
effect it has on oppressing the people.

the EAC still has a form that can only be partially filled out with JAWS 10
or 11.  They had that form as of September 15, 2008, before that they had an
image of a form.  Their current form violates Section 508 law, it has text
in their images and they have other problems.

But it was not only the EAC that we sent this form, we sent it to all the
states.

Washington responded by stating that they were not required to make the
voter registration form to be accessible to the blind.

So if you want a civil rights case, consider voter registration because the
EAC made voting on election day accessible but if the blind and disabled
actually showed up to vote it would be very disruptive.  The EAC is made up
of the voting officials of every state.  They are very proud that they have
increased the number of disabled people to vote to 4 million more than in
the year 2000 but of course that was the 2008 election which had a record
turn out.  But the number of the blind and disabled are around 80 million in
the US, so they are proud of a 5% increase?  The CDC is currently tracking
33.5 million americans over the age of 40 with the 6 most common eye
diseases that lead to blindness.  Cataracts are 17 million of them.  So we
must demand that the census track the blind and disabled because right now
the figures the government uses is a census study that says there are 1
million sensory disabled people in the US.  So I would tend to beleive the
cases reported by doctors over the census.

I can make interactive content accessible to teh blind using free screen
readers.  All of the content is accessible because I am driven to fix this
problem.  In High School and College I had tunnel vision.  I went to class
with a giant tape recorder that I had to carry on my back.  then I got most
of my sight back and so I looked at software and figured out what was going
wrong and I fixed it.  There is no reason why tests should be
inaccessible.  It is amazing to me.

So if you want a civil rights case with everyone in place to do the job,
here it is!  The problem here is that the civil rights lawyers do not have
the experience of the blind to teach them what is going wrong.  Together we
can force the states to be accessible and if they don't do it, they loose
their representation in Congress under the 14th amendment section 2, the
same law used in Reconstruction.

Sincerely,

James G. Pepper

From gwunder at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 14 04:02:21 2010
From: gwunder at earthlink.net (Gary Wunder)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 22:02:21 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Legislative Alert-Washington Seminar Fact Sheets
	Available
Message-ID: <auto-000135205937@mailfront1.g2host.com>


----- Original Message -----
From: Hartle, Jesse
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 1:22 PM
Subject: Legislative Alert-Washington Seminar Fact Sheets Available


Fellow Federationists:



I am writing to you to let you know that the fact 
sheets for the 2010 Washington Seminar are now on 
the NFB Web site.  They can be found on the "NFB 
2010 Washington Seminar" page at 
http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Washington_Seminar.asp. 
For your convenience, the fact sheets are also 
attached to this e-mail.  The hot issues for the 2010 seminar are:



-- Passage of the Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act;

-- Passage of a Technology Bill of Rights for the Blind; and

-- Passage of the Blind Persons Return to Work Act.



             Please review these fact sheets in 
preparation for your appointments during 
Washington Seminar.  We expect that bills related 
to the Technology Bill of Rights and a Senate 
companion bill to the Blind Persons Return to 
Work Act will soon be introduced.  When these 
bills are introduced, the fact sheets will be 
updated to include that information.



             Should you have questions, I have 
included my contact information at the bottom of 
this message.  I look forward to seeing all of 
you at Washington Seminar as we work towards 
passage of these crucial issues.  Once again, 
thank you in advance for all of your hard work.



Jesse M. Hartle

Government Programs Specialist

NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND

Phone:  (410) 659-9314, extension 2233

E-mail:  jharle at nfb.org



JMH/wmb



Attachments



Legislative Agenda of Blind Americans:

Priorities for the 111th Congress, SECOND Session





             The National Federation of the Blind 
(NFB) is the oldest and largest organization of 
blind people in the United States.  As the Voice 
of the Nation's Blind, we represent the 
collective views of blind people throughout 
society.  All of our leaders and the vast 
majority of our members are blind, but anyone can 
participate in our movement.  There are an 
estimated 1.3 million blind people in the United 
States, and every year approximately 75,000 
Americans become blind.  The social and economic 
consequences of blindness affect not only blind 
people, but also our families, our friends, and our coworkers.



             Three legislative initiatives demand 
the immediate attention of the 111th Congress in its second session:

1.                  We urge Congress to ensure 
the safety of blind and other pedestrians by 
passing the Pedestrian Safety Enhancement 
Act.  This legislation would require the U.S. Secretary of Transportation to:

· 
begin a study within ninety days of its enactment 
to determine the most practical means of assuring 
that blind and other pedestrians receive 
essentially similar information to that which 
they now receive from sound emitted by internal combustion engines;

· 
determine the minimum amount of sound necessary 
to offer sufficient information for blind 
pedestrians to make safe travel judgments, based 
on appropriate scientific research and 
consultation with blind Americans and other affected groups;

· 
within two years of beginning the study, 
promulgate a motor vehicle safety standard to 
address the needs of blind and other pedestrians 
by requiring either a minimum level of sound or 
an equally effective means of providing the same 
information as is available from hearing internal combustion engines; and

· 
apply the standard to all motor vehicles 
manufactured or sold in the United States 
beginning no later than two years after the date it is promulgated.



2.                  We urge Congress to work with 
blind Americans to create a Technology Bill of 
Rights for the Blind that mandates that consumer 
electronics, home appliances, kiosks, and 
electronic office technology provide user 
interfaces that are accessible through nonvisual 
means.  This legislation should:



· 
mandate that all consumer electronics, home 
appliances, kiosks, and electronic office 
technology be designed so that blind people can 
access the same functions as sighted people 
through nonvisual means and with substantially equivalent ease of use;



· 
create a commission comprised of essential 
stakeholders to establish standards for nonvisual 
accessibility of electronic devices intended for use in the home or office;



· 
endow the Department of Justice with the 
authority to enforce the regulations promulgated 
by the commission established by this legislation; and



· 
authorize the commission to reexamine and rewrite 
standards periodically as consumer electronic technology continues to evolve.



3.                  We urge Congress to promote 
and facilitate the transition by blind Americans 
from recipients of Social Security Disability 
Insurance benefits to income-earning, tax-paying, 
productive members of the American workforce by enacting legislation to:



·         replace the monthly earnings penalty 
with a graduated three-for-one phase-out (i.e., a 
$1 reduction in benefits for each $3 earned above the limit);



·         replace the monthly earnings test with 
an annualized earnings test in an amount equal to 
twelve times the Substantial Gainful Activity amount; and



·         establish an impairment-related work 
expense deduction for blind Social Security 
Disability Insurance beneficiaries equal to the 
amount applicable for this deduction when 
determining an appropriate income subsidy under 
Medicare Part D or 16.3 percent of earnings, whichever is greater.







             For more information about these 
priorities, please consult the attached fact sheets.



             Blind Americans need your help to 
achieve our goals of economic security, increased 
opportunity, and full integration into American 
society on a basis of equality.  Enactment of 
these legislative proposals will represent 
important steps toward reaching these goals.  We 
need the help and support of each member of 
Congress.  Our success benefits not only us, but 
the whole of America as well.  In this time of 
national economic insecurity, these measures will 
contribute to increasing the tax base and 
encouraging the purchase of consumer goods.







ENHANCING PEDESTRIAN SAFETY:

ENSURING THE BLIND CAN CONTINUE

TO TRAVEL SAFELY AND INDEPENDENTLY





Purpose:  To enact the Pedestrian Safety 
Enhancement Act, which will establish a motor 
vehicle safety standard to alert blind and other 
pedestrians of the presence of silent hybrid and electric vehicles.





Background:  Until recently independent travel 
for the blind has been a relatively simple matter 
once a blind person has been trained in travel 
techniques and has learned to use a white cane or 
to travel with a guide dog.  Blind people listen 
to the sound of automobile engines to determine 
the direction, speed, and pattern of 
traffic.  Sounds from traffic tell blind 
pedestrians how many vehicles are near them and 
how fast they are moving; whether the vehicles 
are accelerating or decelerating; and whether the 
vehicles are traveling toward, away from, or 
parallel to them.  With all of this information 
blind people can accurately determine when it is 
safe to advance into an intersection or across a 
driveway or parking lot.  The information 
obtained from listening to traffic sounds allows 
blind people to travel with complete confidence 
and without assistance.  Studies have shown that 
sighted pedestrians also use auditory information when traveling.



Over the past few years, however, vehicles that 
are completely silent in certain modes of 
operation have come on the market, and many more 
silent vehicles are expected in the near 
future.  These vehicles are designed to have many 
benefits, including improved fuel efficiency and 
reduced emissions, but they do not need to be 
silent in order to achieve these intended 
benefits.  An unintended consequence of these 
vehicles as they are currently designed is that 
they endanger the safety, not only of blind 
people, but also of small children, seniors, cyclists, and runners.





Need for Congressional Action:  For several years 
the National Federation of the Blind has been 
concerned about the proliferation of silent 
vehicles.  These concerns were validated by a 
recent report from the National Highway Traffic 
Safety Administration, which concluded that at 
low speeds hybrid and electric vehicles are twice 
as likely to be involved in accidents with 
pedestrians as vehicles with internal combustion 
engines.  Recently automobile manufacturers have 
acknowledged the dangers posed to blind 
pedestrians by silent-vehicle technology and have 
begun to work with the National Federation of the 
Blind to craft solutions.  While participation 
from some manufacturers is an important first 
step, many others continue to take a wait-and-see 
approach on this important issue.  Congress must 
therefore direct the Department of Transportation 
to take action.  It is crucial that this problem 
be addressed before the inevitable avalanche of 
tragedies involving blind people (including newly 
blinded veterans), small children, seniors, 
cyclists, and runners shocks the nation.





Proposed Legislation:  The Pedestrian Safety 
Enhancement Act (H.R. 734 and S. 841) was 
introduced by Congressmen Towns and Stearns in 
the House and by Senators Kerry and Specter in 
the Senate.  This legislation directs the 
secretary of transportation to conduct a study 
and establish a motor vehicle safety standard 
that provides a means of alerting blind and other 
pedestrians of motor vehicle operation based on 
appropriate scientific research and consultation 
with blind Americans and other affected 
groups.  This national motor vehicle safety 
standard must have the following characteristics:

   a.. In all phases of operation (including 
times when the vehicle is at a full stop), 
pedestrians must be able to identify vehicles by nonvisual means.
   b.. The motor vehicle safety standard must 
also provide pedestrians with the range of 
information that is currently provided by 
combustion engines, including whether the vehicle 
is idling, maintaining a constant speed, accelerating, or decelerating.
The standard need not prescribe the apparatus, 
technology, or method to be used by vehicle 
manufacturers to achieve the required safety 
standard.  This approach will encourage 
manufacturers to use innovative and 
cost-effective techniques to achieve the motor vehicle safety standard.

Automobiles that operate in complete silence 
endanger the safety of all of us; silent 
operation should be viewed as a design flaw 
comparable to the lack of seat belts or air bags, 
and therefore this safety issue must be addressed.





Requested Action:  Please support blind Americans 
by cosponsoring the Pedestrian Safety Enhancement 
Act to authorize the U.S. Department of 
Transportation to establish and promulgate 
regulations specifying a motor vehicle safety 
standard for all new automobiles sold in the 
United States.  In the House of Representatives 
members can be added by contacting Emily Khoury 
in Congressman Towns's office, or James Thomas in 
Congressman Stearns's office.  In the Senate 
members can be added as cosponsors by contacting 
Doug Frost in Senator Kerry's office.





Contact Information:

Jesse Hartle

Government Programs Specialist

NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND

Phone:  (410) 659-9314, extension 2233

Email:  jhartle at nfb.org







A TECHNOLOGY BILL OF RIGHTS FOR THE BLIND





Purpose:  To mandate that consumer electronics, 
home appliances, kiosks, and electronic office 
technology provide user interfaces that are 
accessible through nonvisual means.





Background:  In recent years rapid advances in 
microchip and digital technology have led to 
increasingly complex user interfaces for everyday 
products such as consumer electronics, home 
appliances, kiosks, and electronic office 
technology.  Many new devices in these categories 
require interaction with visual displays, 
on-screen menus, touch screens, and other user 
interfaces that are inaccessible to individuals 
who are blind or have low vision.  Settings on 
the stove, dishwasher, or home entertainment 
system are no longer controlled by knobs, 
switches, and buttons that can be readily 
identified and whose settings can be easily 
discerned.  Inaccessibility of these devices is a 
major barrier to a blind person's independence 
and productivity.  If a blind person cannot 
operate the interfaces of basic office equipment 
such as copiers and fax machines, this is a 
potential threat to that person's opportunity to 
join the workforce or to maintain an existing job.



Many popular nonvisual mechanisms are available 
for manufacturers to create interfaces accessible 
to everyone.  For example, text-to-speech 
technology is inexpensive and more ubiquitous 
than it has ever been-it is used in everything 
from automated telephone systems to the weather 
forecasting service broadcast by the National 
Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.  Indeed, 
a few manufacturers have incorporated this 
technology into their products to create talking 
menus or to articulate what is on the display 
screen, but many manufacturers have continued to 
design interfaces that do not include any 
nonvisual means of use, rendering the devices inaccessible to blind people.





Need for Legislation:  Currently no enforceable 
mandates exist for manufacturers of consumer 
electronics, home appliances, kiosks, and 
electronic office technology to make their 
products accessible to all consumers.  There are 
also no accessibility standards to provide 
guidance to manufacturers on how to avoid 
creating barriers to access by the blind.



Congress should therefore enact a Technology Bill 
of Rights for the Blind which:

   a.. establishes that manufacturers must create 
accessible user interfaces for their products,
   b.. provides a means for enforcement, and
   c.. establishes standards that will provide 
meaningful benchmarks that manufacturers can use 
to make their products accessible.


This legislation does not mandate a single, 
one-size-fits-all solution for all consumer 
technology, home appliances, kiosks, or 
electronic office technology.  Rather it mandates 
regulations setting meaningful accessibility 
standards that allow manufacturers to select from 
a menu of potential solutions or create new 
ones.  This will not only give manufacturers the 
freedom and flexibility they desire, but will 
also encourage innovations that make consumer 
technology more usable for everyone.





Proposed Legislation:  Congress should enact a 
Technology Bill of Rights for the Blind that:



   a.. Mandates that all consumer electronics, 
home appliances, kiosks, and electronic office 
technology be designed so that blind people are 
able to access the same functions as sighted 
people by nonvisual means and with substantially equivalent ease of use.


   a.. Creates a commission to establish 
standards for nonvisual accessibility of 
electronic devices intended for use in the home 
or office.  Such a commission should represent all stakeholders, including:
-          organizations of the blind;

-          manufacturers of consumer electronics, 
home appliances, kiosks, and electronic office 
technology, or associations representing such manufacturers; and

-          experts on universal design, 
electronic engineering, and related fields.



   a.. Endows the Department of Justice with the 
authority to enforce the regulations promulgated 
by the commission established by this legislation.


   a.. Authorizes the commission to reexamine and 
rewrite standards periodically as consumer 
electronic technology continues to evolve.




Requested Action:  Please support blind Americans 
and cosponsor a Technology Bill of Rights for the 
Blind to ensure that blind people can fully 
participate in all aspects of American 
society.  Increased access leads to increased 
independence, increased employment, and increased tax revenue.





Contact Information:

Lauren McLarney

Government Programs Specialist

NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND

Phone:  (410) 659-9314, extension 2207

Email:  lmclarney at nfb.org







REMOVING THE EARNINGS PENALTY:

A COMMON SENSE WORK INCENTIVE

FOR BLIND SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFICIARIES





Purpose:  To promote and facilitate the 
transition by blind Americans from Social 
Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) 
beneficiaries to income-earning, taxpaying, 
productive members of the American workforce.



Background:  The unemployment rate for 
working-age blind people is over 70 
percent.  Part of the reason for this 
disproportionately high statistic is the myths 
and misconceptions about the true capacities of 
blind people.  These erroneous perceptions are 
manifested when employers refuse to hire the 
blind.  Low societal expectations result in low 
representation of the blind in the workforce.

In addition, governmental programs intended to 
provide economic security to blind workers during 
periods of unemployment, especially the SSDI 
program, have had the unintended consequence of 
creating an incentive for blind people to remain 
unemployed or underemployed, despite their desire to work.

Despite the efforts of the National Federation of 
the Blind, blindness still has profound social 
and economic consequences.  Governmental programs 
should encourage blind people to reach their full 
employment potential; they should not encourage economic dependence.



Existing Law:  Title II of the Social Security 
Act provides that disability benefits paid to 
blind beneficiaries are eliminated if the 
beneficiary exceeds a monthly earnings 
limit.  This earnings limit is in effect a 
penalty imposed on blind Americans when they 
work.  This penalty imposed by the SSDI program 
means that, if a blind person earns just $1 over 
$1,640 (the monthly limit in 2010 following a 
Trial Work Period), all benefits are lost.

Section 216(i)(1)(B) of the Social Security Act 
defines blindness as a disability based on 
objective measurement of acuity and visual field, 
as opposed to the subjective criterion of 
inability to perform Substantial Gainful Activity 
(SGA).  For blind people, doing work valued at 
the SGA earnings limit terminates benefits but 
does not terminate disability.  Only blind people 
not working or those with work earnings below an 
annually adjusted statutory earnings limit receive benefits.



Need for Legislation:  When a blind person enters 
the workforce, there is no guarantee that wages 
earned will replace SSDI benefits after taxes are 
paid and work expenses are deducted.  For 
example, Jane worked as a customer service 
representative with an annual income of $35,000 
until she became blind from diabetic 
retinopathy.  Jane meets the criteria for SSDI 
benefits, which provide income of $1,060 a month 
(or $12,720 a year) tax-free while she is not 
working.  Jane wants additional income to meet 
her financial needs.  After an adjustment period 
and blindness skills training, she finds 
employment as a part-time representative making 
$10 an hour for thirty-five hours a week.  Jane 
grosses $350 a week for an average of $1,517 a 
month.  Using a conservative 25 percent 
withholding tax, Jane nets $1,137.50 from her 
work, combined with her $1,060 disability 
benefit, for a net total of  $2,197.50 a 
month.  If Jane should have the opportunity to 
work full time (forty hours), her weekly salary 
would go up to $400 a week for a monthly average 
of $1,733.  This amount is over the 2010 earnings 
limit, so Jane loses all of her disability 
benefits.  Using the same 25 percent tax level, 
Jane nets only $1,300 a month-working an extra 
five hours a week has cost Jane $897.50 net 
income (over $10,500 a year).  This example 
illustrates the work disincentive contained in current law.

A gradual reduction of $1 in benefits for every 
$3 earned over the earnings limit would remove 
the earnings penalty and provide a financial 
incentive to work.  The benefit amount paid to an 
individual will gradually decrease, while the 
individual's contribution to the Social Security 
trust fund increases over time.  Under this 
approach, as Jane earns more, she pays more into 
the trust fund, and her dependence on benefits decreases.

Monthly earnings evaluations are unnecessarily 
complicated for both the beneficiaries and the 
Social Security Administration.  Since the 
medical prognosis for blind people rarely changes 
and because blindness is objectively measurable, 
blind people should be subject to an annual 
earnings test with the limit equal to twelve 
times the applicable monthly SGA amount.

Under current law blind workers frequently pay 
for items and services related to their blindness 
that are necessary for them to work, and they are 
permitted to subtract these Impairment-Related 
Work Expenses (IRWE) from monthly earnings when 
determining monthly income.  Properly crediting 
IRWE poses a serious challenge to the SSDI 
program and creates a lack of predictability for 
the blind person trying to determine whether 
benefits will be available.  To address both 
issues, Congress should permit SSDI recipients to 
claim the same amount used when determining an 
income subsidy under the Medicare prescription 
drug program, currently 16.3 percent of earnings.



Proposed Legislation:  Congress should enact legislation to:

·                     provide that earnings of 
blind SSDI beneficiaries in excess of the annual 
earnings limit result in a gradual benefit 
reduction of $1 for each $3 earned over the limit;

·                     establish an annual 
earnings test for blind SSDI beneficiaries; and

·                     establish one standard IRWE 
deduction for blind SSDI beneficiaries equal to 
the amount presently applicable for this 
deduction when determining an appropriate income 
subsidy under the Medicare prescription drug 
program or 16.3 percent of earnings, whichever is greater.



Requested Action:  For the House, please 
cosponsor the Blind Persons Return to Work Act 
(H.R. 886) by contacting Michaeleen Crowell in 
Rep. John Lewis's office, and provide a common 
sense work incentive for blind Social Security 
beneficiaries.  For the Senate please consider 
introducing companion legislation.





Contact Information:

Lauren McLarney

Government Programs Specialist

NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND

Phone:  (410) 659-9314, extension 2207

Email:  lmclarney at nfb.org
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From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jan 14 07:31:44 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 23:31:44 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour
Message-ID: <EA109BD3F6A5461BB78D099AAF197BDC@spike>

Thought the following might be of interest.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237

A New Day: We're Listening


The US Dept. of Labor Assistant Secretary Kathleen Martinez is spearheading a Listening Tour to solicit ideas from employers and individuals with disabilities on three key topics:


1. More effective ways to increase employment of women, veterans and minorities with disabilities;
2. Identification of federal and state systems that are effectively
collaborating to achieve successful employment results for people with
disabilities; and 
3. Top priorities on which the federal government should focus to support an increase in the employment of persons with disabilities.


Six sites have been selected to provide individuals from each of the six (6)Department of Labor Regions to participate. Comments can also be submitted if individuals cannot attend in person. Locations include:


Dallas, TX - January 21, 2010
Philadelphia, PA - January 27, 2010
Chicago, IL - February 11, 2010
San Francisco, CA - February 16, 2010
Atlanta, GA - February 24, 2010
Boston, MA - March 3, 2010


More information and details regarding the events go to: 
www.disabilitylisteningtour.com.

From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jan 14 07:37:29 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 23:37:29 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] DOJ reaches three settlements regarding electronic book
	readers
Message-ID: <369B9F661601473C82BED294A44AD2AD@spike>


Department of Justice 
Office of Public Affairs

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Wednesday, January 13, 2010
Justice Department Reaches Three Settlements Under the Americans with Disabilities Act Regarding the Use of Electronic Book Readers

WASHINGTON?? The Justice Department today announced separate agreements under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) with Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Pace University in New York City and Reed College in Portland, Ore., regarding the use in a classroom setting of the electronic book reader, the Kindle DX, a hand-held technological device that simulates the experience of reading a book.

Under the agreements reached today, the universities generally will not purchase, recommend or promote use of the Kindle DX, or any other dedicated electronic book reader, unless the devices are fully accessible to students who are blind and have low vision. The universities agree that if they use dedicated electronic book readers, they will ensure that students with vision disabilities are able to access and acquire the same materials and information, engage in the same interactions, and enjoy the same services as sighted students with substantially equivalent ease of use. The agreements that the Justice Department reached with these universities extend beyond the Kindle DX to any dedicated electronic reading device.

These agreements follow the Jan. 11, 2010 agreement between the Justice Department, Arizona State University, the National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind concerning the use of electronic book readers.

"Advancing technology is systematically changing the way universities approach education, but we must be sure that emerging technologies offer individuals with disabilities the same opportunities as other students," said Assistant Attorney General Thomas E. Perez. "These agreements underscore the importance of full and equal educational opportunities for everyone."

A handful of universities participated in a pilot project in cooperation with Amazon.com Inc. to test the viability of the Kindle DX in a classroom setting. The terms of the Justice Department's agreement with each university become effective at the end of the pilot projects.

The current model of the Kindle DX has the capability to read texts aloud, so that the materials would be accessible to blind individuals, but the device does not include a similar text-to-speech function for the menu and navigational controls. Without access to the menus, students who are blind have no way to know which book they have selected or how to access the Kindle DX Web browser or its other functions. The technological "know how" to make navigational controls or menu selections accessible is available.

Other universities, such as Syracuse University and the University of Wisconsin at Madison, also examined the utility of the Kindle DX as a teaching device and decided that they would not use the Kindle DX until it is accessible to blind individuals.

In passing the ADA and the recent ADA Amendments Act, Congress found that individuals with disabilities were uniquely disadvantaged in critical areas, including education. It is a core priority of the Civil Rights Division to strengthen and expand the educational opportunities for individuals with disabilities.

The ADA prohibits discrimination by public accommodations on the basis of disability, including discrimination in private post-secondary institutions. Those interested in finding out more about these agreements or seeking information about and how to comply with the ADA can call the Justice Department's toll-free ADA Information Line at (800) 514-0301 or (800) 514-0383 (TDD), or access its ADA Web site at http://www.ada.gov.

10-030
Civil Rights Division







      

From pattichang at att.net  Thu Jan 14 12:42:11 2010
From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory-Chang)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 06:42:11 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike><5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net><8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike><fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com><FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC><137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC><13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>	<A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC><3E471724B9A74DD0A276766E4CD522AA@blind.state.ia.us>
	<15d701ca9432$4859c9c0$d90d5d40$@com>
Message-ID: <FE668D0CBCD44FCCA39BACDBBEF2CCD1@D3J75Z91>

Illinois has a center called ICREWOOD which has serious issues from 
cleanliness to very low expectations.

We have sent people there and then to Blind Inc.  The difference is amazing.

P.S.  National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at 
www.twitter.com/nfbi.
We also have a facebook page.  Just search for our full name.

Patti Gregory-Chang
President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois
pattichang at att.net
www.nfbofillinois.org
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:25 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> Very valid.  What are these horrible institutions though.  I would like to
> know.  I'm really glad that you named the good ones.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Tai Blas
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 7:06 PM
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> Steve,
>
> I respectfully disagree. I have heard folks say that the NFB centers only
> take the "cream of the crop," not those whom you call "hard-luck" with
> additional challenges who have a difficult time at other centers. I have
> attended an NFB training center and the fact is that they take students of
> all abilities and do an excellent job of rehabilitating them. These 
> centers
> do not pick and choose. The same cannot be said for most state centers,
> Hawaii, Iowa, Nebraska, New Mexico, BISM, and Kris Cole, and possibly a 
> few
> others excluded. Some states, Utah included, are genuinely striving to
> improve training and adjustment services for their blind clients. If you
> placed a "hard-luck" client with sufficient motivation in a low-performing
> state center and then placed them at an NFB training center or in one of 
> the
> high-performing state centers I mentioned above, they would progress and
> improve much more at the NFB or NFB-model training center than in the
> low-performing state center. Employment statistics highlight those centers
> and agencies that are performing well in this regard and I am not talking
> about placements in sheltered employment.
>
> State VR programs pay for their clients to attend centers, whether in 
> state
> or out of state. They save no money by sending clients to a low-performing
> center, only to have that client come back in two years having lost their
> job and needing additional training. The program quality of 
> high-performing
> centers and the long-term benefits they provide to clients is worth any
> difference in cost. Often, the difference between the difference in cost
> between attending state centers and attending NFB centers is negligible.
> These centers are not as expensive as you might think.
>
> Tai
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:29 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB 
> centers
> compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the
> hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to make
> it in a NFB run center.
> Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the
>> quality of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer
>> and the state is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive
>> some of the non-NFB programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a
>> lot of money by maintaining the status quo.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for
>>> the state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency
>>> is always trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>>
>>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states
>>> would crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.
>>> It's been my experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not
>>> sure why there is no money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what
>>> I've experienced.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the
>>>> local NFB chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about
>>>> blindness.
>>>> There
>>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>>
>>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.
>>>> They are tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>>
>>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution,
>>>> then they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting
>>>> money on frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness
>>>> center, funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB
>>>> centers at those same tax payers expense.  That is just not right or
>>>> fiscally possible..  If the NFB wants these clients from states with
>>>> blindness centers in place to attend NFB centers, they should
>>>> establish scholarships or pay the way with NFB funding.  The
>>>> budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States with
>>>> blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is
>>>> like saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a
>>>> consumer to attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again,
>>>> there limitedf resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer
>>>> wants to attend a private college, they need to pay the difference
>>>> or get scholarships to makeup the difference from what a state
>>>> agency is able to pay.  Usually, state agencies will pay for blind
>>>> consumers to attend in-state institutions.
>>>>
>>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must
>>>> make up the difference.  The same should go for the consumer
>>>> attending a NFB center if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to
>>>>> them in person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is
>>>>> really not going to do much.
>>>>>
>>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell
>>>>> them why it doesn't work explain it to them because they have no
>>>>> idea why things do not work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>>
>>>>> James
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency
>>>>>> does not want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab
>>>>>> centers such as the NFB centers and rehab clients have had to
>>>>>> request hearings and other things to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>>> agencies
>>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>>> National Federation of the blind training centers and they should
>>>>>>> be fully paid for by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please
>>>>>>> rewrite...."
>>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is
>>>>>>> being experienced?
>>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South
>>>>>>> Florida mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice
>>>>>>> 1993-2005 www.ada.gov Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence
>>>>>>> Against Women, USDOJ www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this
>>>>>>> have little if any real effect with Congress. It is much more
>>>>>>> effective to use a system of actual letters that can
>>>>>>> electronically be submitted to members of Congress and/or state
>>>>>>> legislators. Working with many groups as a consultant on
>>>>>>> legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>>> consumers definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend
>>>>>>> facilities of their choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of
>>>>>>> 1973 or any other legislation will not get rewritten using this
>>>>>>> format.
>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-a
>>> ct-1973
>>>> /
>>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40
>>> sbcglob
>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40po
>>> box.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40
>>> sbcglob
>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gm
>>> ail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deel
>>> ey%40in
>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------
>>>> ----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>>> 01/11/10
>>>> 07:35:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse0
>>> 8%40gma
>>>> il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deel
>>> ey%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>>> 01/12/10
>>> 07:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse0
>>> 8%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40
>>> sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele
>> y%40insightbb.com
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.137/2617 - Release Date: 
> 01/12/10
> 19:35:00
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>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net 



From MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com  Thu Jan 14 17:19:30 2010
From: MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com (Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:19:30 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike><5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net><8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike><fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com><FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC><137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC><13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>	<A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC><A1F958204EA643E28FC08D017343D0AC@spike><15ce01ca9430$d2aaa420$77ffec60$@com>
	<6A5758A433EB4E3ABC5E1A06DC8D5C25@spike>
Message-ID: <017101ca953d$bc911990$0301a8c0@youra9279112e3>

I mean both newly blind persons and persons who have been blind all their 
lives
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


>I was referring to those people who have had many opportunities to learn 
>what they needed to do and chose not to avail themselves of the options 
>available to them. As we know there are some people who will use their 
>disabilities in ways that are opportunistic. I know that having been born 
>blind it is sometimes easy to forget the impact of adjustment that someone 
>goes through when they have lost vision.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> Are we talking about persons with brand new blindness?  I hope not. 
>> People
>> can't start out knowing everything to do...there is a process.  After
>> awhile, you shouldn't need that but at the beginning there is quite a bit 
>> of
>> psychological retraining.  So, I hope we aren't talking about the 
>> beginning
>> stages...
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:01 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> dthat's a valid point as many consumers expect their hands to be held 
>> every
>> step of the way and beyond.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>>I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB 
>>>centers
>>
>>>compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the
>>>hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to 
>>>make
>>>it in a NFB run center.
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the
>>>> quality
>>>> of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the
>>>> state
>>>> is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the 
>>>> non-NFB
>>>> programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by
>>>> maintaining the status quo.
>>>> Chuck
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for 
>>>>> the
>>>>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is
>>>>> always
>>>>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>>>>
>>>>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states
>>>>> would
>>>>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been
>>>>> my
>>>>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there 
>>>>> is
>>>>> no
>>>>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the 
>>>>>> local
>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>>>>> There
>>>>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not. 
>>>>>> They
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution,
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>>>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness 
>>>>>> center,
>>>>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at 
>>>>>> those
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible.. 
>>>>>> If
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.
>>>>>> States
>>>>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB
>>>>>> centers.
>>>>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is 
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>>>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.
>>>>>> Usually,
>>>>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>>>>> institutions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must 
>>>>>> make
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>>>>> center
>>>>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not 
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> much.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them
>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> James
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency 
>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such 
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and 
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>>>>> agencies
>>>>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>>>>> National
>>>>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully
>>>>>>>>> paid
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is 
>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training 
>>>>>>>>> Centers?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South 
>>>>>>>>> Florida
>>>>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this 
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use 
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members 
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>>>>> /
>>>>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>>>>> 01/11/10
>>>>>> 07:35:00
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>>>>> il.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ----
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>>>>> 01/12/10
>>>>> 07:35:00
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.137/2617 - Release Date:
>>> 01/12/10 19:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/misteralexanderscottkaiser10301990%40gmx.com 



From MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com  Thu Jan 14 17:29:38 2010
From: MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com (Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:29:38 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
Message-ID: <033901ca9543$37179400$0301a8c0@youra9279112e3>

I mean both newly blind persons and those persons who have been blind all of their lives.

From b75205 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 22:21:46 2010
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:21:46 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour
In-Reply-To: <EA109BD3F6A5461BB78D099AAF197BDC@spike>
References: <EA109BD3F6A5461BB78D099AAF197BDC@spike>
Message-ID: <fe5b78281001141421i767ba4efm89fb9170c047153f@mail.gmail.com>

Cool Charles!  And they are in a convenient location too!  Usually these
things are out in the middle of nowhere or at the airport so this is going
to be good!  People will actually be able to get to them!

James Pepper

From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jan 15 02:09:18 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:09:18 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78281001141421i767ba4efm89fb9170c047153f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EA109BD3F6A5461BB78D099AAF197BDC@spike>
	<fe5b78281001141421i767ba4efm89fb9170c047153f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <08727A47C5054CC3A37C7ED72E3EB079@spike>

glad to know it works.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour


> Cool Charles!  And they are in a convenient location too!  Usually these
> things are out in the middle of nowhere or at the airport so this is going
> to be good!  People will actually be able to get to them!
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From jazenmazen at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 15 23:21:34 2010
From: jazenmazen at yahoo.com (Mazen)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 18:21:34 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
Message-ID: <003f01ca9639$7f652dc0$7e2f8940$@com>

Dear All,

 

I wanted to let you know that the Civil Rights division at the US Department
of Justice has been allocated over 100 new positions over half of which are
for attorneys. over the coming weeks the Division will be advertizing for
experienced attorney positions and support staff positions in all the
Sections of the Division. To learn more about the Civil Rights Division
please visit http://justice.gov/crt/ or contact me for informational
purposes only. Please check the Division's website, usajobs.gov or usdoj.gov
for information on specific positions or how to apply.

 

Sincerely,

 

Mazen M. Basrawi

Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General

Civil Rights Division

United States Dept. of Justice

Tel: 202-305-1876 

e-mail: mazen.basrawi at usdoj.gov 

 

 


From shaunreim at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 06:04:59 2010
From: shaunreim at gmail.com (ShaunR)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 23:04:59 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] New to the List
Message-ID: <7805eb4d1001152204tf9339a6v13d6a2d7c36f834f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I'm new to Blind Law, and I'm wondering if some of you might take a
few moments to answer a handful of questions.

First of all, I am interested in joining the National Association of
Blind Lawyers, but when I do a Google search, I am directed to this
list. Does joining this list constitute membership? Is there an
official enrollment apart from this list? Events? Newsletters?

Second, I am in the process of applying to law schools. I live in
Utah, and I'm applying at the UofU. I'll also be applying at the
University of Washington, University of Minnesota, and Gonzaga
University. I have RP, and have been legally blind for some time now.
Can anyone share what their law school experience was like as a
visually-impaired student? How about your experiences searching for
work after school? Are there areas of the law that are "easier" to
find employment in as a vision impaired attorney? If so, what are
they?

I am just starting down this road, and I would love to hear stories
from fellow blind people about all aspects of the field of law.

Thanks!
Shaun Reimers


From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net  Sat Jan 16 15:23:32 2010
From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 10:23:32 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] New to the List
In-Reply-To: <7805eb4d1001152204tf9339a6v13d6a2d7c36f834f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7805eb4d1001152204tf9339a6v13d6a2d7c36f834f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <63FCABE312B849C6969024517780C6AB@14bd0130080a469>

Shaun,
You are so wise doing this.  I lost my sight in my last year of law school,
so missed some advanced preparation that might have softened that blow.  My
word of caution is be careful about private schools.  Pepperdine was not a
pleasant experience- putting it mildly.  State schools are not perfect, but
are generally better prepared for students with disabilities so that
includes blind ones.  I'm still figuring out answers to several of the
questions you pose.  I'm willing to offer what I can, or just listen.  Call
or message me with contact information if you wish

Cathryn (703-553-0477) 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ShaunR
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:05 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blindlaw] New to the List

Hello,

I'm new to Blind Law, and I'm wondering if some of you might take a
few moments to answer a handful of questions.

First of all, I am interested in joining the National Association of
Blind Lawyers, but when I do a Google search, I am directed to this
list. Does joining this list constitute membership? Is there an
official enrollment apart from this list? Events? Newsletters?

Second, I am in the process of applying to law schools. I live in
Utah, and I'm applying at the UofU. I'll also be applying at the
University of Washington, University of Minnesota, and Gonzaga
University. I have RP, and have been legally blind for some time now.
Can anyone share what their law school experience was like as a
visually-impaired student? How about your experiences searching for
work after school? Are there areas of the law that are "easier" to
find employment in as a vision impaired attorney? If so, what are
they?

I am just starting down this road, and I would love to hear stories
from fellow blind people about all aspects of the field of law.

Thanks!
Shaun Reimers

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4
0verizon.net
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.140/2621 - Release Date: 01/15/10
12:47:00



From rumpole at roadrunner.com  Sat Jan 16 17:14:23 2010
From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:14:23 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
References: <003f01ca9639$7f652dc0$7e2f8940$@com>
Message-ID: <60B647BC29BB48D1B2FDAEABE15EB90C@none8a46117901>

If anyone on this list forks for DHS, could they please contact me off list? 
I have a question about their web site.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mazen" <jazenmazen at yahoo.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:21 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree


> Dear All,
>
>
>
> I wanted to let you know that the Civil Rights division at the US 
> Department
> of Justice has been allocated over 100 new positions over half of which 
> are
> for attorneys. over the coming weeks the Division will be advertizing for
> experienced attorney positions and support staff positions in all the
> Sections of the Division. To learn more about the Civil Rights Division
> please visit http://justice.gov/crt/ or contact me for informational
> purposes only. Please check the Division's website, usajobs.gov or 
> usdoj.gov
> for information on specific positions or how to apply.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Mazen M. Basrawi
>
> Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General
>
> Civil Rights Division
>
> United States Dept. of Justice
>
> Tel: 202-305-1876
>
> e-mail: mazen.basrawi at usdoj.gov
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date: 01/16/10 
07:35:00



From k7uij at panix.com  Sat Jan 16 18:06:06 2010
From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 10:06:06 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
References: <003f01ca9639$7f652dc0$7e2f8940$@com>
	<60B647BC29BB48D1B2FDAEABE15EB90C@none8a46117901>
Message-ID: <A1ADC66A316B413F8D864B1595BF9C9A@owner1e06aeb63>

Ben Prows Bennett.Prows at dhs.gov works for DHS.

Mike Freeman, President
NFB of Washington

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ross Doerr" <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree


> If anyone on this list forks for DHS, could they please contact me off 
> list? I have a question about their web site.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mazen" <jazenmazen at yahoo.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:21 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>>
>>
>> I wanted to let you know that the Civil Rights division at the US 
>> Department
>> of Justice has been allocated over 100 new positions over half of which 
>> are
>> for attorneys. over the coming weeks the Division will be advertizing for
>> experienced attorney positions and support staff positions in all the
>> Sections of the Division. To learn more about the Civil Rights Division
>> please visit http://justice.gov/crt/ or contact me for informational
>> purposes only. Please check the Division's website, usajobs.gov or 
>> usdoj.gov
>> for information on specific positions or how to apply.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>>
>>
>> Mazen M. Basrawi
>>
>> Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General
>>
>> Civil Rights Division
>>
>> United States Dept. of Justice
>>
>> Tel: 202-305-1876
>>
>> e-mail: mazen.basrawi at usdoj.gov
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date: 
> 01/16/10 07:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com 



From rumpole at roadrunner.com  Sat Jan 16 19:38:28 2010
From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 14:38:28 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
References: <003f01ca9639$7f652dc0$7e2f8940$@com><60B647BC29BB48D1B2FDAEABE15EB90C@none8a46117901>
	<A1ADC66A316B413F8D864B1595BF9C9A@owner1e06aeb63>
Message-ID: <71AE8CAB317E40E5AE51F21CE41DD146@none8a46117901>

Thanks Mike, I appreciate it

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree


> Ben Prows Bennett.Prows at dhs.gov works for DHS.
>
> Mike Freeman, President
> NFB of Washington
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ross Doerr" <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>
>
>> If anyone on this list forks for DHS, could they please contact me off
>> list? I have a question about their web site.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mazen" <jazenmazen at yahoo.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:21 PM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>>
>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I wanted to let you know that the Civil Rights division at the US
>>> Department
>>> of Justice has been allocated over 100 new positions over half of which
>>> are
>>> for attorneys. over the coming weeks the Division will be advertizing 
>>> for
>>> experienced attorney positions and support staff positions in all the
>>> Sections of the Division. To learn more about the Civil Rights Division
>>> please visit http://justice.gov/crt/ or contact me for informational
>>> purposes only. Please check the Division's website, usajobs.gov or
>>> usdoj.gov
>>> for information on specific positions or how to apply.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mazen M. Basrawi
>>>
>>> Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General
>>>
>>> Civil Rights Division
>>>
>>> United States Dept. of Justice
>>>
>>> Tel: 202-305-1876
>>>
>>> e-mail: mazen.basrawi at usdoj.gov
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date:
>> 01/16/10 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date: 01/16/10 
07:35:00



From k7uij at panix.com  Sat Jan 16 20:25:23 2010
From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:25:23 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
References: <003f01ca9639$7f652dc0$7e2f8940$@com><60B647BC29BB48D1B2FDAEABE15EB90C@none8a46117901>
	<A1ADC66A316B413F8D864B1595BF9C9A@owner1e06aeb63>
Message-ID: <3CD1D9B30EA542068159B0F7A1D83705@owner1e06aeb63>

Correction:

Mr. Prows works for the Federal government at *HHS!* He is 
Bennett.Prows at hhs.gov. Sorry for the kipper!

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree


> Ben Prows Bennett.Prows at dhs.gov works for DHS.
>
> Mike Freeman, President
> NFB of Washington
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ross Doerr" <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>
>
>> If anyone on this list forks for DHS, could they please contact me off 
>> list? I have a question about their web site.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mazen" <jazenmazen at yahoo.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:21 PM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>>
>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I wanted to let you know that the Civil Rights division at the US 
>>> Department
>>> of Justice has been allocated over 100 new positions over half of which 
>>> are
>>> for attorneys. over the coming weeks the Division will be advertizing 
>>> for
>>> experienced attorney positions and support staff positions in all the
>>> Sections of the Division. To learn more about the Civil Rights Division
>>> please visit http://justice.gov/crt/ or contact me for informational
>>> purposes only. Please check the Division's website, usajobs.gov or 
>>> usdoj.gov
>>> for information on specific positions or how to apply.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mazen M. Basrawi
>>>
>>> Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General
>>>
>>> Civil Rights Division
>>>
>>> United States Dept. of Justice
>>>
>>> Tel: 202-305-1876
>>>
>>> e-mail: mazen.basrawi at usdoj.gov
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date: 
>> 01/16/10 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com 



From rumpole at roadrunner.com  Sat Jan 16 21:08:37 2010
From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:08:37 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
References: <003f01ca9639$7f652dc0$7e2f8940$@com><60B647BC29BB48D1B2FDAEABE15EB90C@none8a46117901>
	<A1ADC66A316B413F8D864B1595BF9C9A@owner1e06aeb63>
Message-ID: <8059890EAA784612A9FE9E95959E54B1@none8a46117901>

Mike, perhaps Ben has changed his email addr3ess, the DHS postmaster 
returned my message stating that there is no such user.
I checked the email address and I did it right, so either they only acept 
emails during regular business hours, or Ben has a different email now?
I'll post a question to him on the NFB site if you think that would be best.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree


> Ben Prows Bennett.Prows at dhs.gov works for DHS.
>
> Mike Freeman, President
> NFB of Washington
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ross Doerr" <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>
>
>> If anyone on this list forks for DHS, could they please contact me off
>> list? I have a question about their web site.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mazen" <jazenmazen at yahoo.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:21 PM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>>
>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I wanted to let you know that the Civil Rights division at the US
>>> Department
>>> of Justice has been allocated over 100 new positions over half of which
>>> are
>>> for attorneys. over the coming weeks the Division will be advertizing 
>>> for
>>> experienced attorney positions and support staff positions in all the
>>> Sections of the Division. To learn more about the Civil Rights Division
>>> please visit http://justice.gov/crt/ or contact me for informational
>>> purposes only. Please check the Division's website, usajobs.gov or
>>> usdoj.gov
>>> for information on specific positions or how to apply.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mazen M. Basrawi
>>>
>>> Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General
>>>
>>> Civil Rights Division
>>>
>>> United States Dept. of Justice
>>>
>>> Tel: 202-305-1876
>>>
>>> e-mail: mazen.basrawi at usdoj.gov
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date:
>> 01/16/10 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date: 01/16/10 
07:35:00



From MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com  Sat Jan 16 22:39:45 2010
From: MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com (Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 17:39:45 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
Message-ID: <012001ca96fc$cddb8080$0301a8c0@youra9279112e3>

please read and sign this petition
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2796/help-with-rewriting-united-statess-america-rehabilitation-act-197/ 

From k7uij at panix.com  Sat Jan 16 23:04:49 2010
From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 15:04:49 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
References: <003f01ca9639$7f652dc0$7e2f8940$@com><60B647BC29BB48D1B2FDAEABE15EB90C@none8a46117901><A1ADC66A316B413F8D864B1595BF9C9A@owner1e06aeb63>
	<8059890EAA784612A9FE9E95959E54B1@none8a46117901>
Message-ID: <346441506EBF4DF3A93466518CC26814@owner1e06aeb63>

AS you will see, I goofed. His address is Bennet.Prows at hhs.gov.

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ross Doerr" <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree


> Mike, perhaps Ben has changed his email addr3ess, the DHS postmaster 
> returned my message stating that there is no such user.
> I checked the email address and I did it right, so either they only acept 
> emails during regular business hours, or Ben has a different email now?
> I'll post a question to him on the NFB site if you think that would be 
> best.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>
>
>> Ben Prows Bennett.Prows at dhs.gov works for DHS.
>>
>> Mike Freeman, President
>> NFB of Washington
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Ross Doerr" <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:14 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>>
>>
>>> If anyone on this list forks for DHS, could they please contact me off
>>> list? I have a question about their web site.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Mazen" <jazenmazen at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:21 PM
>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear All,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wanted to let you know that the Civil Rights division at the US
>>>> Department
>>>> of Justice has been allocated over 100 new positions over half of which
>>>> are
>>>> for attorneys. over the coming weeks the Division will be advertizing 
>>>> for
>>>> experienced attorney positions and support staff positions in all the
>>>> Sections of the Division. To learn more about the Civil Rights Division
>>>> please visit http://justice.gov/crt/ or contact me for informational
>>>> purposes only. Please check the Division's website, usajobs.gov or
>>>> usdoj.gov
>>>> for information on specific positions or how to apply.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mazen M. Basrawi
>>>>
>>>> Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General
>>>>
>>>> Civil Rights Division
>>>>
>>>> United States Dept. of Justice
>>>>
>>>> Tel: 202-305-1876
>>>>
>>>> e-mail: mazen.basrawi at usdoj.gov
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date:
>>> 01/16/10 07:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date: 
> 01/16/10 07:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com 



From MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com  Sat Jan 16 23:23:58 2010
From: MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com (Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:23:58 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] pettition
Message-ID: <02e501ca9702$fb2d9e00$0301a8c0@youra9279112e3>

Please read and sign
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2796/help-with-rewriting-united-statess-america-rehabilitation-act-197/ 

From k7uij at panix.com  Sun Jan 17 00:25:48 2010
From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:25:48 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] pettition
References: <02e501ca9702$fb2d9e00$0301a8c0@youra9279112e3>
Message-ID: <403DA88C917D4B5DA2D9DBF98D5EEF60@owner1e06aeb63>

If it looks like spam, walks like spam and talks like spam ...

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser" 
<MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 3:23 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] pettition


> Please read and sign
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2796/help-with-rewriting-united-statess-america-rehabilitation-act-197/
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com 



From rumpole at roadrunner.com  Sun Jan 17 02:46:45 2010
From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 21:46:45 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
References: <003f01ca9639$7f652dc0$7e2f8940$@com><60B647BC29BB48D1B2FDAEABE15EB90C@none8a46117901><A1ADC66A316B413F8D864B1595BF9C9A@owner1e06aeb63><8059890EAA784612A9FE9E95959E54B1@none8a46117901>
	<346441506EBF4DF3A93466518CC26814@owner1e06aeb63>
Message-ID: <742A87BCCEFC462E9CF180DE830DDF6A@none8a46117901>

Glad to see I'm not the only one who goofs up an email address from time to 
time.
Thanks Mike


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree


> AS you will see, I goofed. His address is Bennet.Prows at hhs.gov.
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ross Doerr" <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>
>
>> Mike, perhaps Ben has changed his email addr3ess, the DHS postmaster
>> returned my message stating that there is no such user.
>> I checked the email address and I did it right, so either they only acept
>> emails during regular business hours, or Ben has a different email now?
>> I'll post a question to him on the NFB site if you think that would be
>> best.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>>
>>
>>> Ben Prows Bennett.Prows at dhs.gov works for DHS.
>>>
>>> Mike Freeman, President
>>> NFB of Washington
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Ross Doerr" <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>>>
>>>
>>>> If anyone on this list forks for DHS, could they please contact me off
>>>> list? I have a question about their web site.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Mazen" <jazenmazen at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:21 PM
>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wanted to let you know that the Civil Rights division at the US
>>>>> Department
>>>>> of Justice has been allocated over 100 new positions over half of 
>>>>> which
>>>>> are
>>>>> for attorneys. over the coming weeks the Division will be advertizing
>>>>> for
>>>>> experienced attorney positions and support staff positions in all the
>>>>> Sections of the Division. To learn more about the Civil Rights 
>>>>> Division
>>>>> please visit http://justice.gov/crt/ or contact me for informational
>>>>> purposes only. Please check the Division's website, usajobs.gov or
>>>>> usdoj.gov
>>>>> for information on specific positions or how to apply.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mazen M. Basrawi
>>>>>
>>>>> Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General
>>>>>
>>>>> Civil Rights Division
>>>>>
>>>>> United States Dept. of Justice
>>>>>
>>>>> Tel: 202-305-1876
>>>>>
>>>>> e-mail: mazen.basrawi at usdoj.gov
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date:
>>>> 01/16/10 07:35:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date:
>> 01/16/10 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.146/2627 - Release Date: 01/16/10 
19:35:00



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 17 03:20:40 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 19:20:40 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <012001ca96fc$cddb8080$0301a8c0@youra9279112e3>
References: <012001ca96fc$cddb8080$0301a8c0@youra9279112e3>
Message-ID: <DF377AF14B614577A447B4E60EA42630@spike>

What is the official NFB position on this petition? Has this issue been 
brought to the attention of NFB leadership?
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser" 
<MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 2:39 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] petition


> please read and sign this petition
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2796/help-with-rewriting-united-statess-america-rehabilitation-act-197/
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 17 03:26:17 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 19:26:17 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] pettition
In-Reply-To: <403DA88C917D4B5DA2D9DBF98D5EEF60@owner1e06aeb63>
References: <02e501ca9702$fb2d9e00$0301a8c0@youra9279112e3>
	<403DA88C917D4B5DA2D9DBF98D5EEF60@owner1e06aeb63>
Message-ID: <D5563CBAB75C4DF1A54D186D5AB900F5@spike>

The sad part is that the originator did not take our constructive criticism 
to heart as this was the same item that we discussed a few days ago. 
Unfortunately, its not real relevant to issues and focus of this list.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] pettition


> If it looks like spam, walks like spam and talks like spam ...
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser" 
> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 3:23 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] pettition
>
>
>> Please read and sign
>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2796/help-with-rewriting-united-statess-america-rehabilitation-act-197/
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From dfrye at nfb.org  Sun Jan 17 04:38:41 2010
From: dfrye at nfb.org (Dan Frye)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 23:38:41 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] New to the List
Message-ID: <E1NWMsf-0002ku-9n@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Shaun:

I attended the University of Washington, School of law, in 
Seattle, Washington, from 1990 to 1993, and I had an excellent 
experience there.  Though my experience with law school is now 
some dated, I would be happy to share with you any perspective 
that I gathered during this time.  Please feel free to call or 
write at the contact details listed below in my signature block.

With Kind Regards,

Daniel B.  Frye
Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208
Mobile: (410) 241-7006
Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote.

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net
>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 10:23:32 -0500
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New to the List

>Shaun,
>You are so wise doing this.  I lost my sight in my last year of 
law school,
>so missed some advanced preparation that might have softened that 
blow.  My
>word of caution is be careful about private schools.  Pepperdine 
was not a
>pleasant experience- putting it mildly.  State schools are not 
perfect, but
>are generally better prepared for students with disabilities so 
that
>includes blind ones.  I'm still figuring out answers to several 
of the
>questions you pose.  I'm willing to offer what I can, or just 
listen.  Call
>or message me with contact information if you wish

>Cathryn (703-553-0477)

>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of ShaunR
>Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:05 AM
>To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [blindlaw] New to the List

>Hello,

>I'm new to Blind Law, and I'm wondering if some of you might take 
a
>few moments to answer a handful of questions.

>First of all, I am interested in joining the National Association 
of
>Blind Lawyers, but when I do a Google search, I am directed to 
this
>list.  Does joining this list constitute membership? Is there an
>official enrollment apart from this list? Events? Newsletters?

>Second, I am in the process of applying to law schools.  I live 
in
>Utah, and I'm applying at the UofU.  I'll also be applying at the
>University of Washington, University of Minnesota, and Gonzaga
>University.  I have RP, and have been legally blind for some time 
now.
>Can anyone share what their law school experience was like as a
>visually-impaired student? How about your experiences searching 
for
>work after school? Are there areas of the law that are "easier" 
to
>find employment in as a vision impaired attorney? If so, what are
>they?

>I am just starting down this road, and I would love to hear 
stories
>from fellow blind people about all aspects of the field of law.

>Thanks!
>Shaun Reimers

>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
>blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn
isfinally%4
>0verizon.net
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.140/2621 - Release 
Date: 01/15/10
>12:47:00


>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4
0nfb.org


From aznor99 at aol.com  Sun Jan 17 05:35:28 2010
From: aznor99 at aol.com (aznor99 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 00:35:28 EST
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
Message-ID: <11f55.d5aaba9.3883fba0@aol.com>

Ross,
 
I work for DHS and tried emailing you off-list, but your provider won't  
deliver my message.  Feel free to email me at _aznor99 at aol.com_ 
(mailto:aznor99 at aol.com) .  If you mean DHS in the  Homeland Security sense, Ben does not 
work there.  He works for Health and  Human Services (HHS).
 
Regards,
Ronza
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 1/16/2010 10:15:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
rumpole at roadrunner.com writes:

Glad to  see I'm not the only one who goofs up an email address from time 
to  
time.
Thanks Mike


----- Original Message ----- 
From:  "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 6:04  PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring  spree


> AS you will see, I goofed. His address is  Bennet.Prows at hhs.gov.
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original  Message ----- 
> From: "Ross Doerr"  <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:08  PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring  spree
>
>
>> Mike, perhaps Ben has changed his email  addr3ess, the DHS postmaster
>> returned my message stating that  there is no such user.
>> I checked the email address and I did it  right, so either they only 
acept
>> emails during regular business  hours, or Ben has a different email now?
>> I'll post a question to  him on the NFB site if you think that would be
>>  best.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----  
>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>> To:  "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent:  Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil  Rights Division hiring spree
>>
>>
>>> Ben Prows  Bennett.Prows at dhs.gov works for DHS.
>>>
>>> Mike  Freeman, President
>>> NFB of  Washington
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----  
>>> From: "Ross Doerr"  <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing  List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 16,  2010 9:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division  hiring spree
>>>
>>>
>>>> If anyone on  this list forks for DHS, could they please contact me off
>>>>  list? I have a question about their web  site.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----  Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Mazen"  <jazenmazen at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law  Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday,  January 15, 2010 6:21 PM
>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights  Division hiring  spree
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dear  All,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  I wanted to let you know that the Civil Rights division at the  US
>>>>> Department
>>>>> of Justice has  been allocated over 100 new positions over half of 
>>>>>  which
>>>>> are
>>>>> for attorneys. over  the coming weeks the Division will be advertizing
>>>>>  for
>>>>> experienced attorney positions and support staff  positions in all the
>>>>> Sections of the Division. To  learn more about the Civil Rights 
>>>>>  Division
>>>>> please visit http://justice.gov/crt/ or  contact me for informational
>>>>> purposes only. Please  check the Division's website, usajobs.gov or
>>>>>  usdoj.gov
>>>>> for information on specific positions or how  to  apply.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Sincerely,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Mazen M. Basrawi
>>>>>
>>>>> Counsel to  the Assistant Attorney General
>>>>>
>>>>>  Civil Rights Division
>>>>>
>>>>> United  States Dept. of Justice
>>>>>
>>>>> Tel:  202-305-1876
>>>>>
>>>>> e-mail:  mazen.basrawi at usdoj.gov
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>  blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>  blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>  
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG -  www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database:  270.14.145/2626 - Release Date:
>>>> 01/16/10  07:35:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw  mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>  
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw  mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>  
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>>
>>
>>  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>  No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG -  www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 -  Release Date:
>> 01/16/10  07:35:00
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing  list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>  blindlaw:
>>  
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing  list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>  blindlaw:
>  
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



No  virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -  www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.146/2627 - Release  Date: 
01/16/10  
19:35:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw  mailing  list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com


From dravant at ameritech.net  Tue Jan 19 15:36:16 2010
From: dravant at ameritech.net (denise avant)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:36:16 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] rejoining again
Message-ID: <022c01ca991d$23d344b0$6b79ce10$@net>

Hello everyone,

I've been away from this list for quite sometime now as I've been very busy
with a hearing that lasted for 5 days, not all in succession and I recently
had an opportunity to argue before the Illinois Supreme Court.

I've heard there have been some interesting discussions, and I look forward
to being on the list again.

 


From pattichang at att.net  Wed Jan 20 02:08:30 2010
From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory-Chang)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 20:08:30 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] rejoining again
References: <022c01ca991d$23d344b0$6b79ce10$@net>
Message-ID: <2E24B5F776DB48EB9C33E429BB0AFA41@D3J75Z91>

I just want to say congrats to Denise.  Not many of us have opportunities to 
argue before state supreme courts.  That is so AWESOME!.

P.S.  National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at 
www.twitter.com/nfbi.
We also have a facebook page.  Just search for our full name.

Patti Gregory-Chang
President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois
pattichang at att.net
www.nfbofillinois.org
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "denise avant" <dravant at ameritech.net>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:36 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] rejoining again


> Hello everyone,
>
> I've been away from this list for quite sometime now as I've been very 
> busy
> with a hearing that lasted for 5 days, not all in succession and I 
> recently
> had an opportunity to argue before the Illinois Supreme Court.
>
> I've heard there have been some interesting discussions, and I look 
> forward
> to being on the list again.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net 



From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Wed Jan 20 15:53:29 2010
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 08:53:29 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] rejoining again
References: <022c01ca991d$23d344b0$6b79ce10$@net>
	<2E24B5F776DB48EB9C33E429BB0AFA41@D3J75Z91>
Message-ID: <B99FBF200178456B93F404091AA194DB@labarre>

Diddo.  Congrats Denise!
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged 
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, 
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in 
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, 
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments 
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" <pattichang at att.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] rejoining again


>I just want to say congrats to Denise.  Not many of us have opportunities 
>to argue before state supreme courts.  That is so AWESOME!.
>
> P.S.  National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at 
> www.twitter.com/nfbi.
> We also have a facebook page.  Just search for our full name.
>
> Patti Gregory-Chang
> President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois
> pattichang at att.net
> www.nfbofillinois.org
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "denise avant" <dravant at ameritech.net>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:36 AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] rejoining again
>
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I've been away from this list for quite sometime now as I've been very 
>> busy
>> with a hearing that lasted for 5 days, not all in succession and I 
>> recently
>> had an opportunity to argue before the Illinois Supreme Court.
>>
>> I've heard there have been some interesting discussions, and I look 
>> forward
>> to being on the list again.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com
> 




From harderlucas at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 20 19:07:48 2010
From: harderlucas at yahoo.com (Lucas Harder)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 11:07:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [blindlaw] Question on testing at law school
In-Reply-To: <B99FBF200178456B93F404091AA194DB@labarre>
Message-ID: <210592.33247.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>





Hi All,

My name is Lucas Harder and I will be a first year law
student in August. The school that I will be attending has not had a totally blind
student for several decades and so they raised several issues that I would like
to ask if anyone has any suggestions. The main area is in test taking. We aren’t
sure what test taking programs work with JAWS. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions
or information that can be given.

Thank you,

Lucas Harder




      

From attorney at alcidonislaw.com  Wed Jan 20 21:49:09 2010
From: attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:49:09 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Question on testing at law school
In-Reply-To: <210592.33247.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <210592.33247.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DC186451B3C040DBAED7F44835BD7FC1@RodelynPC>

Lucas:

When I was in Law School, we did not use a test taking program. I took all 
my exams in Microsoft word, and I had all exams provided to me 
electronically. I believe it is still status quo -- none of them work well 
with JAWS.

I know of several friends who had the same arrangement with their respective 
Law Schools.

Rod Alcidonis
Attorney and Counselor at Law
Philadelphia, PA
Licensed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey
Phone: (215) 821-6047
Cell: (718) 704-4651
Attorney at alcidonislaw.com

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Lucas Harder" <harderlucas at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 2:07 PM
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [blindlaw] Question on testing at law school

>
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> My name is Lucas Harder and I will be a first year law
> student in August. The school that I will be attending has not had a 
> totally blind
> student for several decades and so they raised several issues that I would 
> like
> to ask if anyone has any suggestions. The main area is in test taking. We 
> aren’t
> sure what test taking programs work with JAWS. I would greatly appreciate 
> any suggestions
> or information that can be given.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Lucas Harder
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com
> 


From joramsey at cox.net  Wed Jan 20 23:04:46 2010
From: joramsey at cox.net (John Ramsey)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 18:04:46 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Question on testing at law school
In-Reply-To: <210592.33247.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <423AC5385A6A4860BCBF3BCA9FCC9158@noneeb869fea9a>

Hello Lucas and congratulations. I have heard that the later versions of
exam soft will work with JAWS but cannot independently verify this. Feel
free to email me off list on any law school issue.
Take care,
John

John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.

Gainesville, FL 32609

(352) 505-6642

 

This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or
legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or
entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in
error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed
materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be
aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this
communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or
civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet,
John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure.  If you are
uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to
communicate with John Ramsey.  Please contact us immediately at (352)
505-6642 if you decide not to use email.  You must also be aware that email
messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our
control.  Thank you.  

 

 



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Lucas Harder
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 2:08 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] Question on testing at law school






Hi All,

My name is Lucas Harder and I will be a first year law
student in August. The school that I will be attending has not had a totally
blind student for several decades and so they raised several issues that I
would like to ask if anyone has any suggestions. The main area is in test
taking. We aren't sure what test taking programs work with JAWS. I would
greatly appreciate any suggestions or information that can be given.

Thank you,

Lucas Harder




      
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net



From attorney at alcidonislaw.com  Thu Jan 21 00:18:40 2010
From: attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:18:40 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Question on testing at law school Dave administrator
	can you contact me off-list please
In-Reply-To: <423AC5385A6A4860BCBF3BCA9FCC9158@noneeb869fea9a>
References: <423AC5385A6A4860BCBF3BCA9FCC9158@noneeb869fea9a>
Message-ID: <C23F202D5AB0437B88DBD7B902A8FA05@RodelynPC>

Dave list administrator

Can you contact me off-list please?

Thanks.

Rod Alcidonis
Attorney and Counselor at Law
Philadelphia, PA
Licensed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey
Phone: (215) 821-6047
Cell: (718) 704-4651
Attorney at alcidonislaw.com

--------------------------------------------------
From: "John Ramsey" <joramsey at cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 6:04 PM
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question on testing at law school

> Hello Lucas and congratulations. I have heard that the later versions of
> exam soft will work with JAWS but cannot independently verify this. Feel
> free to email me off list on any law school issue.
> Take care,
> John
>
> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.
>
> Gainesville, FL 32609
>
> (352) 505-6642
>
>
>
> This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or
> legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or
> entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication 
> in
> error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed
> materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be
> aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this
> communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or
> civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet,
> John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure.  If you are
> uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to
> communicate with John Ramsey.  Please contact us immediately at (352)
> 505-6642 if you decide not to use email.  You must also be aware that 
> email
> messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our
> control.  Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Lucas Harder
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 2:08 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] Question on testing at law school
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> My name is Lucas Harder and I will be a first year law
> student in August. The school that I will be attending has not had a 
> totally
> blind student for several decades and so they raised several issues that I
> would like to ask if anyone has any suggestions. The main area is in test
> taking. We aren't sure what test taking programs work with JAWS. I would
> greatly appreciate any suggestions or information that can be given.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Lucas Harder
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com 



From b75205 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 19:32:50 2010
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:32:50 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour
In-Reply-To: <08727A47C5054CC3A37C7ED72E3EB079@spike>
References: <EA109BD3F6A5461BB78D099AAF197BDC@spike>
	<fe5b78281001141421i767ba4efm89fb9170c047153f@mail.gmail.com>
	<08727A47C5054CC3A37C7ED72E3EB079@spike>
Message-ID: <fe5b78281001211132ua83f1dbh917b882c0f7acb08@mail.gmail.com>

Well, I testified, and I demanded that Obama sign an executive order
ordering the US census to count the blind, the visually impaired and the
disabled.  One of the speakers from Reach was saying that he was going to
send a message to Obama on the disability issue and so I stood up and said
that the CDC is currently tracking 18 million Americans over the age of 40
who have the 6 major eye diseases that cause blindness, and 17 million more
have cataracts whcih is twice the population of african americans who voted
in the 2008 election.  This was filmed for CSpan but I do not know when it
will be on.  But it was a good meeting.

I explained what I could do with my process for accessibility and the
progress on that issue too.

James Pepper

From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Thu Jan 21 22:48:21 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:48:21 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78281001211132ua83f1dbh917b882c0f7acb08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EA109BD3F6A5461BB78D099AAF197BDC@spike>
	<fe5b78281001141421i767ba4efm89fb9170c047153f@mail.gmail.com>
	<08727A47C5054CC3A37C7ED72E3EB079@spike>
	<fe5b78281001211132ua83f1dbh917b882c0f7acb08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1C995A13C7254D53AA313EE70414BA79@StevePC>

Just tell Obama that if he doesn't sign all of the blind will vote for the 
next Republican presidential candidate in 2012!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour


> Well, I testified, and I demanded that Obama sign an executive order
> ordering the US census to count the blind, the visually impaired and the
> disabled.  One of the speakers from Reach was saying that he was going to
> send a message to Obama on the disability issue and so I stood up and said
> that the CDC is currently tracking 18 million Americans over the age of 40
> who have the 6 major eye diseases that cause blindness, and 17 million 
> more
> have cataracts whcih is twice the population of african americans who 
> voted
> in the 2008 election.  This was filmed for CSpan but I do not know when it
> will be on.  But it was a good meeting.
>
> I explained what I could do with my process for accessibility and the
> progress on that issue too.
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2636 - Release Date: 01/21/10 
07:34:00



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jan 22 07:55:00 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:55:00 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour
In-Reply-To: <1C995A13C7254D53AA313EE70414BA79@StevePC>
References: <EA109BD3F6A5461BB78D099AAF197BDC@spike><fe5b78281001141421i767ba4efm89fb9170c047153f@mail.gmail.com><08727A47C5054CC3A37C7ED72E3EB079@spike><fe5b78281001211132ua83f1dbh917b882c0f7acb08@mail.gmail.com>
	<1C995A13C7254D53AA313EE70414BA79@StevePC>
Message-ID: <45917D47A4764790B618CA1697105993@spike>

That would set us back in to the Dark Ages.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour


> Just tell Obama that if he doesn't sign all of the blind will vote for the 
> next Republican presidential candidate in 2012!!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour
>
>
>> Well, I testified, and I demanded that Obama sign an executive order
>> ordering the US census to count the blind, the visually impaired and the
>> disabled.  One of the speakers from Reach was saying that he was going to
>> send a message to Obama on the disability issue and so I stood up and 
>> said
>> that the CDC is currently tracking 18 million Americans over the age of 
>> 40
>> who have the 6 major eye diseases that cause blindness, and 17 million 
>> more
>> have cataracts whcih is twice the population of african americans who 
>> voted
>> in the 2008 election.  This was filmed for CSpan but I do not know when 
>> it
>> will be on.  But it was a good meeting.
>>
>> I explained what I could do with my process for accessibility and the
>> progress on that issue too.
>>
>> James Pepper
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2636 - Release Date: 01/21/10 
> 07:34:00
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>
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> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Fri Jan 22 15:13:42 2010
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 08:13:42 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Employment Opportunity: Reasonable Accommodation
	Coordinator Position
Message-ID: <C8C3FEBB68CF4203A0BDF5D185615B3E@labarre>

An employment opportunity has crossed my inbox and I am passing it on.  Feel free to do likewise.  Cheers for a great weekend ahead!
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Bryson, Stacey L. (CMS/OEOCR) 
To: slabarre at labarrelaw.com 
Cc: Bryson, Stacey L. (CMS/OEOCR) 
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 7:16 PM
Subject: Employment Opportunity: Reasonable Accommodation Coordinator Position


My organization is looking to use the Schedule A hiring authority to fill a vacancy position. This position is located in the Office of Equal Opportunity and Civil Rights (OEOCR), Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS).  The position is for a member of the Disability Employment and Reasonable Accommodation Program (DERAP) team.  

We are  looking for someone with a legal background interested in assisting in progressing the Agency's Disability Employment and Reasonable Accommodations Program. The hired candidate would assist in providing guidance to CMS management, employees, applicants, human resources officials and advocacy groups on issues impacting individuals with disabilities.  We need someone with the ability to analyze information pertaining to the processing of reasonable accommodation request, and the ability to conduct legal research and apply case law to reasonable accommodation and disability related issues.

Interested applicants should email a resume to the address below. 

 

Stacey L. Bryson

Team Lead / Disability Employment Program Manager 
Office of Equal Opportunity and Civil Rights 
Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services 
Department of Health & Human Services 
7500 Security Blvd., Mail Stop: N2-22-16

Baltimore, MD. 21244 
Tel:  410-786-7201
Fax: 410-786-9549 

Email: sbryson at cms.hhs.gov 

"OEOCR the model of quality EEO and Civil Rights Services"

 

From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com  Fri Jan 22 21:19:33 2010
From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 13:19:33 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour
In-Reply-To: <45917D47A4764790B618CA1697105993@spike>
References: <EA109BD3F6A5461BB78D099AAF197BDC@spike><fe5b78281001141421i767ba4efm89fb9170c047153f@mail.gmail.com><08727A47C5054CC3A37C7ED72E3EB079@spike><fe5b78281001211132ua83f1dbh917b882c0f7acb08@mail.gmail.com><1C995A13C7254D53AA313EE70414BA79@StevePC>
	<45917D47A4764790B618CA1697105993@spike>
Message-ID: <2A3F4F84AD164DA48745F6CAE73BF0C5@RThomas>

Oh really? Bush 41 signed the ADA, after his opponent in the 1988 election
couldn't decide whether he was for ADA or against it.



Respectfully,

 

Russell J. Thomas, Jr.

THOMAS & ASSOCIATES

www.californiaemployersattorneys.com

 

Orange County Office                      

4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101

Newport Beach, California 92660                             

T: (949) 752-0101                             

F: (949) 257-4756

M: (949) 466-7238

 

Beverly Hills Office

9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450

Beverly Hills, California 90210 

T: (310) 461-3561

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:55 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour

That would set us back in to the Dark Ages.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour


> Just tell Obama that if he doesn't sign all of the blind will vote for the

> next Republican presidential candidate in 2012!!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour
>
>
>> Well, I testified, and I demanded that Obama sign an executive order
>> ordering the US census to count the blind, the visually impaired and the
>> disabled.  One of the speakers from Reach was saying that he was going to
>> send a message to Obama on the disability issue and so I stood up and 
>> said
>> that the CDC is currently tracking 18 million Americans over the age of 
>> 40
>> who have the 6 major eye diseases that cause blindness, and 17 million 
>> more
>> have cataracts whcih is twice the population of african americans who 
>> voted
>> in the 2008 election.  This was filmed for CSpan but I do not know when 
>> it
>> will be on.  But it was a good meeting.
>>
>> I explained what I could do with my process for accessibility and the
>> progress on that issue too.
>>
>> James Pepper
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
sightbb.com
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2636 - Release Date: 01/21/10 
> 07:34:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
al.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi
rm.com





From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 21:53:56 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:53:56 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
Message-ID: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>

Since the NFB, is a corperation, would it be effectedin any by the United States supreme court opinion releaced yesterday? I've attached a copy of the opinion. RJ 
-------------- next part --------------
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From editor.nftb at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 02:13:30 2010
From: editor.nftb at gmail.com (Will May)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 21:13:30 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
In-Reply-To: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <bd5993381001221813p29388e07k64960bed4a12aa5a@mail.gmail.com>

Doesn't differentiate between for profit and not for profit
corporation, so NFB etc would be included.

On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 4:53 PM, RJ Sandefur
<joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> Since the NFB, is a corperation, would it be effectedin any by the United States supreme court opinion releaced yesterday? I've attached a copy of the opinion. RJ
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmail.com
>
>


From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 02:48:31 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 21:48:31 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] supremecourt opinion
Message-ID: <F9426B82A15C4EDC823B9EA78C4E5AD9@hometwxakonvzn>

Could this opinion have an effect on the NFB, and org tone of stuff? RJ
-------------- next part --------------
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From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 12:11:13 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 07:11:13 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
References: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>
	<bd5993381001221813p29388e07k64960bed4a12aa5a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5E8856D40BF7483D8FEB4F7D83184428@hometwxakonvzn>

Do you think this opinion will have a positive or negitive effect on the 
NFB? The way I understand it, the opinion says, any corperation, may 
actively compain for a partictuar person. So the NFB could say, "John smith 
votted againist the ADA." Basically, what did the court do? I feel as 
citizens these opinions arn't being explained to us, so we are not really 
informed as to what's going on. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Will May" <editor.nftb at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion


> Doesn't differentiate between for profit and not for profit
> corporation, so NFB etc would be included.
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 4:53 PM, RJ Sandefur
> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Since the NFB, is a corperation, would it be effectedin any by the United 
>> States supreme court opinion releaced yesterday? I've attached a copy of 
>> the opinion. RJ
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 12:46:29 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 06:46:29 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
In-Reply-To: <5E8856D40BF7483D8FEB4F7D83184428@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>	<bd5993381001221813p29388e07k64960bed4a12aa5a@mail.gmail.com>
	<5E8856D40BF7483D8FEB4F7D83184428@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <004e01ca9c2a$1667c7a0$433756e0$@com>

I think this may be good for corporations but not good for the average
person.  If we thought lobbying was bad before, this is going to be much
worse.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:11 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion

Do you think this opinion will have a positive or negitive effect on the 
NFB? The way I understand it, the opinion says, any corperation, may 
actively compain for a partictuar person. So the NFB could say, "John smith 
votted againist the ADA." Basically, what did the court do? I feel as 
citizens these opinions arn't being explained to us, so we are not really 
informed as to what's going on. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Will May" <editor.nftb at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion


> Doesn't differentiate between for profit and not for profit
> corporation, so NFB etc would be included.
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 4:53 PM, RJ Sandefur
> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Since the NFB, is a corperation, would it be effectedin any by the United

>> States supreme court opinion releaced yesterday? I've attached a copy of 
>> the opinion. RJ
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmai
l.com
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefu
r%40gmail.com 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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il.com



From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Mon Jan 25 22:39:13 2010
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:39:13 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: ABA Presidential Diversity Series | Smart Soloing:
	Strategies for Diverse Lawyers
Message-ID: <17981A9703AB4D3590F1EE088DC318A9@labarre>

ABA-CLEThis may have appeal to some especially because it is free.  
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: ABA-CLE Announcement 
To: Scott Charles LaBarre 
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 7:15 AM
Subject: ABA Presidential Diversity Series | Smart Soloing: Strategies for Diverse Lawyers


            Please add aba-cle-announcement at abanet.org to your address book to ensure our e-mails reach your inbox.  
           
              
                  ABA Home  Economic Recovery Resources   Store  Calendar   
           

                       
                        JOIN US FOR THIS LIVE VIDEO WEBCAST 
                        FROM THE ABA MIDYEAR MEETING 2010! 
                       

                         
                        Smart Soloing: Success Strategies for Diverse Lawyers 
                        Second Program in the 
                        ABA Presidential Diversity Program Series: Strategies for Success
                        Friday, February 5, 2010 
                       

                       
                        CLE Credit has been requested for this program.  

                       
                        Today over 60% of lawyers in the United States work in solo or small firm practice settings of 1-5 attorneys. In the current employment environment, even more lawyers are turning to solo/small firm practice. This live video webcast program is designed to help the recent solo/small firm lawyer build the skills and gain the confidence needed to operate a successful law practice, and candidly addresses some of the barriers and opportunities, faced by diverse lawyers. 

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                        OUR EXPERT FACULTY

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                        Available for download in any of the following formats. 
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                        Smart Soloing: Success Strategies for Diverse Lawyers
                        Friday, Febuary 5, 2010
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                        Thursday, April 29, 2010 
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From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jan 29 03:10:49 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 19:10:49 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
In-Reply-To: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <D98884EEF1554EAC93704B0BA14A5E81@spike>

    I just received an alert addressing the impact of this opinion on 
nonprofit corporations. It states that the restrictions of 501C(3)S is still 
in tact as the conditions of the IRS code which addresses involvement in 
political activities by 501C(3) entities remains unchanged. If anyone wants 
the detailed alert I can send it off list.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno, ca 93721
559-266-9237

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:53 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion


Since the NFB, is a corperation, would it be effectedin any by the United 
States supreme court opinion releaced yesterday? I've attached a copy of the 
opinion. RJ


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
> 



From kc2992a at student.american.edu  Fri Jan 29 03:12:46 2010
From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 22:12:46 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
In-Reply-To: <D98884EEF1554EAC93704B0BA14A5E81@spike>
References: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>
	<D98884EEF1554EAC93704B0BA14A5E81@spike>
Message-ID: <2fdbeb321001281912n4de09bebo36edd545156b7c1@mail.gmail.com>

Could you forward that alert please? I am interested.

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:10 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>   I just received an alert addressing the impact of this opinion on
> nonprofit corporations. It states that the restrictions of 501C(3)S is still
> in tact as the conditions of the IRS code which addresses involvement in
> political activities by 501C(3) entities remains unchanged. If anyone wants
> the detailed alert I can send it off list.
> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
> 1237 P Street
> Fresno, ca 93721
> 559-266-9237
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" <
> joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:53 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
>
>
> Since the NFB, is a corperation, would it be effectedin any by the United
> States supreme court opinion releaced yesterday? I've attached a copy of the
> opinion. RJ
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu
>



-- 
Kathryn CARROLL
American University
631 521 3018

From johnrsheehan at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 29 11:06:41 2010
From: johnrsheehan at yahoo.com (John Sheehan)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 03:06:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
In-Reply-To: <2fdbeb321001281912n4de09bebo36edd545156b7c1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>
	<D98884EEF1554EAC93704B0BA14A5E81@spike>
	<2fdbeb321001281912n4de09bebo36edd545156b7c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <35102.38320.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Thank you - that would be very useful.
 
Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
Chairman
Xavier Society for the Blind
154 E. 23rd St
NYC 10010
212 473-7800, ext 119
Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you. 
 
Residence:
53 E 83rd St
New York, NY 10028

Room Phone: 212 606-3420
Cell: 646 853-1820
Blog: www.frjohnsj.blogspot.com





________________________________

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:10 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>   I just received an alert addressing the impact of this opinion on
> nonprofit corporations. It states that the restrictions of 501C(3)S is still
> in tact as the conditions of the IRS code which addresses involvement in
> political activities by 501C(3) entities remains unchanged. If anyone wants
> the detailed alert I can send it off list.
> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
> 1237 P Street
> Fresno, ca 93721
> 559-266-9237
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" <
> joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:53 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
>
>
> Since the NFB, is a corperation, would it be effectedin any by the United
> States supreme court opinion releaced yesterday? I've attached a copy of the
> opinion. RJ
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu
>



-- 
Kathryn CARROLL
American University
631 521 3018
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
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From mhanson at winternet.com  Fri Jan 29 12:00:21 2010
From: mhanson at winternet.com (Michael O. Hanson)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:00:21 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
References: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>
	<D98884EEF1554EAC93704B0BA14A5E81@spike>
Message-ID: <17FD374AF66A456F80B5A0BC7AFA3085@HP67201715610>

Please forward me that alert if you don't mind.

Thank You,


Mike Hanson

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion


>    I just received an alert addressing the impact of this opinion on 
> nonprofit corporations. It states that the restrictions of 501C(3)S is 
> still in tact as the conditions of the IRS code which addresses 
> involvement in political activities by 501C(3) entities remains unchanged. 
> If anyone wants the detailed alert I can send it off list.
> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
> 1237 P Street
> Fresno, ca 93721
> 559-266-9237
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:53 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
>
>
> Since the NFB, is a corperation, would it be effectedin any by the United 
> States supreme court opinion releaced yesterday? I've attached a copy of 
> the opinion. RJ
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mhanson%40winternet.com
> 



From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Fri Jan 29 18:25:25 2010
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:25:25 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Additional Department of Justice,
 Civil Rights Division Job Opportunities
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED50450E08F4@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>



________________________________
From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 10:39 AM
To: jobs at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Jobs] FW: Additional Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division Job Opportunities



________________________________
From: Special Programs Vacancies [mailto:CRT.SpecProgVacancies at usdoj.gov]
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 1:16 PM
To: Petrie, Diane E (CRT); Alexandria Bar Association; Alliance of Black Women Attorneys; American Arab Anti-Discrimination Commitee; American Bar Association -- Commission on Mental and Physical Disabilities Law; American Bar Association - Commission on Racial and Ethnic ; American Bar Association - Commission on Women in the Profession; American Bar Association -- Committee on Diversity in the Profession and Native American Bar Association -- DC Chapter; American Bar Association - Government and Public Sector Lawyers Division; American Bar Association - Section of Litigation / American Bar Association - Section of Litigation, Minority Trial Lawyers Committee; American Bar Association - Young Lawyers Section; American Bar Association- Commission on Mental and Physical Disabilities Law; American Civil Liberties Union; American Corporate Counsel Association; American Counsel of the Blind; American Judges Association; American Judges Association; American University - Washington College of Law; American University - Washington College of Law; Anne Arundel Bar Association; Anti-Defamation League; Arab American Bar Association; Asian American Bar Association of Houston; Asian American Bar Association of New York (AABANY); Asian American Bar Association of the Greater Bay Area; Asian American Bar Association of the Greater Chicago Area (AABA); Asian American Lawyers Association of Massachusetts; Asian Bar Association of Washington; Asian Pacific American Bar Association of Colorado; Asian Pacific American Bar Association of Los Angeles County; Asian Pacific American Bar Association of Pennsylvania; Asian Pacific American Bar Association of the Greater Washington, District of Columbia Area; Asian Pacific American Lawyers Association of New Jersey; Asian Pacific American Legal Center of Southern California; Asian Pacific American Legal Resource Center; Asian Pacific Bar Association of the Silicon Valley; Assistant United States Attorneys Association ; Association of American Law Schools - Indian Nations & Indigenous People; Association of American Law Schools - Litigation Section; Association of American Law Schools - Minority Section; Association of Black Lawyers of Westchester County, New York; Association of Black Women Attorneys / National Association of Black Women Attorneys ; Association of Black Women Lawyers of New Jersey; Baltimore County Bar Association; Bar Association of Baltimore City; Bar Association of Baltimore City; Bar Association of the District of Columbia; Bar Association of the District of Columbia - Young Lawyers Section/Maryland Hispanic Bar Association ; Barristers' Association of Philadelphia, Inc.; Black Lawyer's Association of Cincinnati; Black Women Lawyers Association of Los Angeles; Black Women Lawyers of Greater Chicago, Inc.; Black Women's Bar Association of Suburban Maryland, Inc.; Blind Veterans Association; Boston University; Brigham Young University Law School; Brown, Bruce (USAFLS); California Association of Black Lawyer ; Catholic University School of Law; Chicago Committee on Minorities in Large Law Firms; Colorado Hispanic Bar Association; Colorado Hispanic Bar Association; Columbia University; Connecticut Asian Pacific American Bar Association; Connecticut Hispanic Bar Association; Constance List, Listserv ; Cook County Bar Association; Cornell University; Council of Shia Professionals; Cuban American Bar Association; D.C. Bar Association; D.W. Perkins Bar Association, Inc.; Dallas Asian-American Bar Association; Dallas Hispanic Bar Association; Department of Justice Association of Black Attorneys; Department of Justice Association of Hispanic Employees for Advancement and Development; Department of Justice Pan Asian; Dominican Bar Association; Fairfax, Virginia Bar Association - Young Lawyers Section; Federal Bar Association; Federal Bar Association - Capitol Hill Chapter; Federal Bar Association - DC Chapter; Federal Bar Association - Federal Career Service Division; Federal Bar Association - Federal Litigation Section; Federal Bar Association - Indian Law Section; Federal Bar Association - Maryland Chapter; Federal Bar Association - Northern Virginia Chapter; Federal Bar Association - Pentagon Chapter; Federal Research Services, Inc.; Filipino American Lawyers of San Diego; Filipino Bar Association of Northern California; Florida A&M University College of Law; Florida Legal Services; Florida State University College of Law; Fordham University; Gate City Bar Association; Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Attorneys of Washington, District of Columbia; George Mason University Law School; George Mason University Law School; George Washington University School of Law; Georgetown University Law Center; Georgia Asian Pacific American Bar Association; Georgia Association of Black Women Attorneys; Greater Washington Area Chapter, Women Lawyers; Greater Washington Area Chapter, Women Lawyers; Harvard University; Hispanic Bar Association; Hispanic Bar Association of Michigan; Hispanic Bar Association of Orange County; Hispanic Bar Association of Pennsylvania; Hispanic Bar Association of the Commonwealth of Virginia, Inc.; Hispanic Bar Association of the District of Columbia; Hispanic Employment Program Managers; Hispanic Lawyers Association of Illinois; Hispanic National Bar Association; Houston Lawyers Association; Howard University Law School; Immigration Project of the Wisconsin Coalition Against Domestic Violence; Indian American Bar Association - Chicago; Indian Law Resource Center - Washington, District of Columbia Office; Inter-American Bar Association; J.L. Turner Legal Assocation; Japanese American Bar Association of Los Angeles; John M. Langston Bar Association of Los Angeles; Korean American Bar Association of Northern California; Korean American Bar Association of Washington State; Korean American Bar Association of Washington State; Korean American Bar of Southern California; Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under the Law; Lawyers for One America ; Lewis and Clark Law School; Local Government Attorneys of Virginia; Loren Miller Bar Association; Los Abogados Hispanic Bar Association of Maricopa County; Loyola Law School, Los Angeles; Maryland State Bar Association; Maryland State Bar Association - Young Lawyers Section; Maryland State's Attorneys' Association; Maryland Trial Lawyers Association; Massachusetts Association of Hispanic Attorneys; Massachusetts Association of Hispanic Attorneys; Massachusetts Black Lawyers Association; Metropolitan Black Bar Association; Mexican American Bar Association; Mikkanen, Arvo (USAOKW); Minnesota American Indian Bar Association; Minnesota Association of Black Lawyers; Minnesota Hispanic Bar Association; Minority Corporate Counsel Association; Montgomery County, Maryland Bar Association ; Monumental City Bar Association ; Muslim Bar Association of Southern California; National American Indian Court Judges Association; National Asian Pacific American Bar Association; National Asian Pacific American Bar Association; National Asian Pacific American Legal Consortium; National Association for Public Interest Law; National Association for Public Interest Law; National Association of Assistant United States Attorneys /Assistant United States Attorneys Association ; Maurer, Patricia; Maurer, Patricia; National Association of Protection and Advocacy Systems; National Association of Protection and Advocacy Systems; National Association of the Deaf Law Center; National Association of Women Lawyers ; National Association of Women Lawyers ; National Bar Association (national African American bar association) ; National Conference of Women's Bar Associations; National Congress of American Indians; National Congress of American Indians; National Hispanic Prosecutors Association; National Immigration Law Center; National Indian Justice Center; National Legal Aid & Defender Association; National Legal Aid & Defender Association; National Lesbian and Gay Law Association; National Lesbian and Gay Law Association; National Organization on Disability; National Policy and Advocacy Council on Homelessness; National South Asian Bar Association; Native American Bar Association; Native American Bar Association; Native American Bar Association of Washington, District of Columbia; Nativeamericanlaw, Listserv (email discussion group for native law and Federal Indian law issues); New York School of Law; North American South Asian Bar Association; North Carolina Central University School of Law; Northwest Indian Bar Association; Northwestern University; Oklahoma Indian Bar Association; Old Dominion Bar Association (African American bar association of Virginia); Orange County Japanese American Lawyers' Association ; Organization of Chinese Americans; Organization of Chinese Americans; Pan Asian Lawyers Association of San Diego; Pan Asian Lawyers Association of San Diego; Paralyzed Veterans of America; Philippine American Bar Association; Philippine American Bar Association; Prince George's County, Maryland Bar Association; Puerto Rican Bar Association of Illinois; Puerto Rican Bar Association, Inc.; Regent University School of Law; Sam Cary Bar Association; San Francisco Law Raza Lawyers Association; Sikh Coalition; South Asian Bar Association of New York; South Asian Bar Association of Northern California; South Asian Bar Association of Southern California; South Asian Bar Association of Washington, D.C.; South Asian Bar Association of Washington, D.C.; Southern California Chinese Lawyers Association; Southwestern Law School; St. Mary's University School of Law; St. Mary's University School of Law; Stanford Law School; Texas Southern University Thurgood Marshall School of Law; The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty; The California Minority Counsel Program; U.S. Attorney's Bulletin; U.S. Department of the Air Force - Judge Advocate General's Department; University of Arizona, James E. Rogers College of Law; University of Baltimore School of Law; University of California-Berkeley; University of California-Davis; University of California-Hastings College of Law; University of California-Los Angeles; University of Chicago-The Law School; University of Connecticut School of Law; University of Connecticut School of Law; University of Dayton School of Law; University of Florida Frederic G. Levin College of Law; University of Idaho College of Law; University of Illinois-Urbana-Campaign; University of Maryland School of Law; University of Miami School of Law; University of Michigan- Ann Arbor; University of Missouri School of Law; University of Missouri School of Law; University of Nevada Las Vegas William S. Boyd School of Law; University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill; University of Pennsylvania; University of Richmond - T.C. Williams School of Law; University of Richmond - T.C. Williams School of Law; University of Southern California; University of Texas at Austin School of Law; University of the District of Columbia-David A. Clarke School of Law; University of Tulsa College of Law; University of Virginia School of Law; University of Wisconsin-Madison; Utah Minority Bar Association; Vietnamese American Association of the Greater Washington, D.C. Area; Villanova University; Virgil Hawkins Florida Chapter National Bar Association; Virginia Bar Association ; Virginia Commonwealth's Attorneys Services Council ; Virginia State Bar Association ; Virginia Trial Lawyers Association; Washington & Lee University Law School; Washington Bar Association ; Washington Council of Lawyers ; West Virginia Bar Association; West Virginia Prosecuting Attorneys Institute ; West Virginia Trial Lawyers Association; West Virginia University College of Law; William and Mary School of Law; Willie Lovett; Wolverine Bar Association; Women's Bar Association of Maryland, Inc.; Women's Bar Association of the District of Columbia; Yale University
Subject: Additional Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division Job Opportunities


Attached are several more job opportunities in the Civil Rights Division, DOJ.  Please distribute as appropriate:

http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85849941

http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85849003

http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85861657



http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85926412&JobTitle=Deputy+Chief&x=132&y=9&brd=3876&vw=b&FedEmp=N&FedPub=Y&jbf574=DJ*&jbf571=10&AVSDM=2010-01-27+12%3a49%3a00


I you are not the right contact for such distributions, please let me know.  Likewise, if you would like to unsubscribe to this contact list, please e-mail us.  Thank you.


-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Jobs mailing list
Jobs at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov

From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Fri Jan 29 18:25:35 2010
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:25:35 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED50450E08F5@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>



________________________________
From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 10:40 AM
To: jobs at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice



________________________________
From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov]
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 12:53 PM
To: nawl at nawl.org; ncai at ncai.org; nedy at wyjlaw.com; newmedia at ja.org; Neysas at dnfsb.gov; Maurer, Patricia; nijc at aol.com; nlove at opd.state.md.us; nmcconnell at jackscamp.com; noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; nwpatton at law.stanford.edu; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu
Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice


To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp

We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you.

Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies

 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE PARDON ATTORNEY EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-13 ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER OPA-ATY-10-001 This position is open until filled, but no later than February 5, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-opa-aty-10-001.htm>
Date posted: 01-26-2010
 *   EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEYS UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE NATIONAL SECURITY DIVISION COUNTERESPIONAGE SECTION Open until filled.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-nsd-counterespionage.htm>
Date posted: 01-26-2010
 *   SUPERVISORY ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS Applications must be received by Monday, February 8, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/usao-ma.htm>
Date posted: 01-25-2010
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, CRIMINAL SECTION DEPUTY CHIEF/GS-14 TO 15 Application Deadline February 11, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/crm-deputy-chief-oarm-2010.htm>
Date posted: 01-22-2010
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, CRIMINAL SECTION TRIAL ATTORNEY/GS-14 TO 15 Application Deadline February 18, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/crm-trial-attorney-oarm-2010.htm>
Date posted: 01-22-2010
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES SECTION TRIAL ATTORNEY, GS-14 to GS-15 ANNOUNCEMENT #10-ATT-002 Application Deadline March 18, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/attorney-education-2010.htm>
Date posted: 01-22-2010
 *   U. S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, EMPLOYMENT LITIGATION SECTION TRIAL ATTORNEY, GS-14 to GS-15 Application Deadline March 2, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/attorney-emp-2010.htm>
Date posted: 01-22-2010
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS CHICAGO, ILLINOIS PATRICK J. FITZGERALD, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: AUSA-NDIL-10 Position is open until filled.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/ausa10.htm>
Date posted: 01-22-2010
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- UTICA, NEW YORK EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY/GS-13 to GS-15 This position will be open until February 9, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/26jan10uticaattorney.htm>
Date posted: 01-22-2010
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE PROGRAM -- ALBANY, NY ASSISTANT U.S. TRUSTEE This position will be open until February 8, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/25jan10albanyaust.htm>
Date posted: 01-22-2010
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- BOISE, IDAHO TRIAL ATTORNEY VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT # 2010-05-BOI Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of February 12, 2010 and will be accepted up to five calendar days after the closing date.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-ust-2010-05-boi.htm>
Date posted: 01-22-2010
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEYUNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE TWO-YEAR TERM APPOINTMENT NORTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 10-NDNY-01 Application materials must be received by January 28, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-usao-ndny-01.htm>
Date posted: 01-22-2010
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 10-AUSASDGA-01 Applications must be received no later than February 1, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-eousa-ausasdga-01.htm>
Date posted: 01-21-2010
 *   UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA SUPERVISORY ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA JANUARY 21, 2010 10-EDCA-09A Applications should be postmarked no later than Friday, February 5, 2010<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-usao-edca-09a.htm>
Date posted: 01-21-2010
 *   UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON SEATTLE, WASHINGTON VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT: 10-WDWA-AUSA-05 (CRIMINAL) JANUARY 20, 2010 - FEBRUARY 3, 2010 Applications will be accepted through February 3, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-wdwa-ausa-05.htm>
Date posted: 01-20-2010
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA Position(s) will be open until filled.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-usao-asstatty-mdfl.htm>
Date posted: 01-20-2010
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA HONORABLE JOYCE WHITE VANCE ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 10-NDAL-08 All applications/resumes should be postmarked February 1, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-ndal-08.htm>
Date posted: 01-15-2010
 *   EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (EAUSA) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON SEATTLE, WASHINGTON VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT: 10-WDWA-AUSA-04 JANUARY 15, 2010 - JANUARY 22, 2010 Applications will be accepted through January 21, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-wdwa-ausa-04.htm>
Date posted: 01-15-2010
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE PROGRAM -- ALEXANDRIA, VA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES TRUSTEE VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT #AX-0017 This position will be open until February 12, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/ax-0017.htm>
Date posted: 01-15-2010
 *   TRIAL ATTORNEY, (GS-13/14/15) CHILD EXPLOITATION AND OBSCENITY SECTION CRIMINAL DIVISION U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WASHINGTON, D.C. ANNOUNCEMENT #: 10-CRM-CEOS-004 This vacancy announcement will close on February 12, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-crm-ceos-004.htm>
Date posted: 01-15-2010
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE PROGRAM -- OKLAHOMA CITY, OK ASSISTANT UNITED STATES TRUSTEE VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT #FY 10-1 This position will be open until February 1, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/fy-10-1.htm>
Date posted: 01-14-2010
 *   VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (CRIMINAL) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA MIAMI, FLORIDA Announcement is open until filled.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-usao-miamifl.htm>
Date posted: 01-14-2010
 *   UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA SUPERVISORY ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FRESNO, CALIFORNIA JANUARY 14, 2010 10-EDCA-08A Applications should be postmarked no later than Friday, January 29, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-edca-08a.htm>
Date posted: 01-14-2010
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA 10-SDAL-02 Positions are open until filled, but resumes must be received by January 28, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-sdal-02.htm>
Date posted: 01-13-2010

The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information.

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From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 00:52:40 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 18:52:40 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
Message-ID: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>

Hello all!

 

I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in finding
employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.

 

Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Will


From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Sat Jan 30 01:56:52 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 20:56:52 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
Message-ID: <C0C7845FD68649459838AFC9565F4CE4@StevePC>

Why, if you are looking for employment?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 7:52 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern


> Hello all!
>
>
>
> I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
> had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in 
> finding
> employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
> including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>
>
>
> Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>
>
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Will
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2655 - Release Date: 01/29/10 
09:08:00



From darlene.olsen at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 02:59:48 2010
From: darlene.olsen at gmail.com (Darlene Olsen)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 18:59:48 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
Message-ID: <E21513943C7542ACBC4904E3301CAA60@DarleneOlsen>

I wonder if you should contact Google Inc.

Eric Schmidt, CEO
Telephone: (650) 623-4000

Address: 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway,
Mountain View, California, 94043
Plus, negoitiate a job as a special paralegal for the company, on 
retainer...
Good Luck
Darlene.Olsen at gmail.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:52 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern


> Hello all!
>
>
>
> I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
> had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in 
> finding
> employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
> including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>
>
>
> Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>
>
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Will
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/darlene.olsen%40gmail.com
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature database 4818 (20100129) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> 


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4819 (20100130) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com





From CDanielsen at nfb.org  Sat Jan 30 06:46:33 2010
From: CDanielsen at nfb.org (Danielsen, Chris)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 00:46:33 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida to receive
 Distinguished Legislative Service Award at Washington Seminar
Message-ID: <auto-000137244507@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Dear Fellow Federationists:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = 
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />



As you know, our Washington Seminar is fast approaching.  On 
Wednesday, February 3, it is extremely important that you attend the 
5:00 p.m. meeting because we will have a special 
guest.  Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida will 
receive a Distinguished Legislative Service Award for her leadership 
in securing funding for the Digital Talking Book program of the 
Library of Congress. Congresswoman Wasserman Schultz is a 
subcommittee chairperson and Chief Deputy Whip in the United States 
House of Representatives. Please make a point to attend this meeting 
and express your sincere appreciation for all that she has done to 
create opportunity for blind Americans.  Congresswoman Wasserman 
Schultz is also a cosponsor of the Blind Persons Return to Work Act 
and the Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act, and we believe that she 
will soon sign on as a cosponsor of the Technology Bill of Rights for 
the Blind.  Please join us in honoring this great supporter and 
friend of America's blind.



If you're not already in Washington on Wednesday but live in the 
District or in Virginia or Maryland, please make an effort to be at 
the Holiday Inn Capitol, 550 C Street SW, to attend this special 
presentation.  If you live in Maryland or can get to the National 
Center for the Blind in Baltimore, there will be transportation on 
Wednesday afternoon to the Holiday Inn Capitol for this important 
gathering.  If you would like to utilize this transportation option, 
please contact Scott White by calling (410) 659-9314, extension 2231, 
or e-mailing <mailto:swhite at nfb.org>swhite at nfb.org.  Please let Scott 
know by the close of business on Monday, February 1, if you plan to 
use this transportation option.  Transportation will leave the 
National Center for the Blind promptly at 2:45 p.m. and return to the 
Center at approximately 8 p.m.  Please be sure to arrive at the 
Center no later than 2:30 p.m. so that the van(s) can depart on 
time.  If you will already be at Washington Seminar, please make a 
point of being in the Columbia Room at 5 p.m.  The gathering will 
last until approximately 6:30 p.m.  I hope to see you in Washington.



Sincerely:



Chris Danielsen


From attorney at alcidonislaw.com  Sat Jan 30 09:34:15 2010
From: attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 04:34:15 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <C0C7845FD68649459838AFC9565F4CE4@StevePC>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
	<C0C7845FD68649459838AFC9565F4CE4@StevePC>
Message-ID: <2B1DC69E5BF240B2BF8CD3BBC0C8C6A9@RodelynPC>

It troubles me about the fact that this list, being so specialized, does not 
have a private archive. Will, I do not know of a way of removing that info 
from the web, unless the administrator can go in and deletes the message all 
together.


Rod Alcidonis, Attorney and Counselor at Law
Alcidonis Law Office, LLC
6907B Rising Sun Ave. 1st floor
Philadelphia, PA 19111
Tel: (215) 821-6047
Fax: (215) 525-0999
Attorney at alcidonislaw.com
Licensed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 8:56 PM
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern

> Why, if you are looking for employment?
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 7:52 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
>
>
>> Hello all!
>>
>>
>>
>> I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
>> had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in 
>> finding
>> employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
>> including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>>
>>
>>
>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Will
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2655 - Release Date: 01/29/10 
> 09:08:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com 



From dandrews at visi.com  Sat Jan 30 10:29:18 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 04:29:18 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
Message-ID: <auto-000137520014@mailfront1.g2host.com>

I can have it removed from the archives, if you give me specifics 
about the message, so we can find it.  However, stuff is cached by 
Google and others, so this doesn't mean it just disappears instantly.

David Andrews, List Owner

At 06:52 PM 1/29/2010, you wrote:
>Hello all!
>
>
>
>I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
>had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in finding
>employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
>including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>
>
>
>Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>
>
>
>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
>Will
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4819 (20100130) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jan 30 10:47:07 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 02:47:07 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
Message-ID: <5A1935AA978748F8AAD79C149CAEA936@spike>

 
latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-us-bar-exam-ruling,0,5871149.story

latimes.com
Judge says officials wrong to prohibit blind UCLA grad's use of computer during state bar exam
By Associated Press

3:36 PM PST, January 29, 2010

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - A federal judge says a blind law school graduate can use a computer during the multiple-choice portion of the California bar exam, a test all must pass to practice law in the state.

U.S. District Court Judge Charles Breyer ruled Friday that University of California, Los Angeles law school graduate Stephanie Enyart's request to use software designed for blind test takers was a reasonable request.

The National Conference of Bar Examiners Inc., which administers that portion of the test for the State Bar of California, had cited security concerns in its opposition of Enyart's request.

The nonprofit argued it made several significant accommodations - such as extra time and allowing a live reader - so that Enyart could take the paper-and-pencil exam.

The exam starts Feb. 23.    







Copyright 2010 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

 
-------------- next part --------------
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Type: application/octet-stream
Size: 43 bytes
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From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 11:40:05 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:40:05 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
References: <5A1935AA978748F8AAD79C149CAEA936@spike>
Message-ID: <1B694C84998F497E8668504A77354CC6@hometwxakonvzn>

Hey, I am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And where 
can I find it on Line? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
> 



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 11:40:54 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 05:40:54 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <E21513943C7542ACBC4904E3301CAA60@DarleneOlsen>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
	<E21513943C7542ACBC4904E3301CAA60@DarleneOlsen>
Message-ID: <0a4701caa1a1$15ace760$4106b620$@com>

Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Darlene Olsen
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:00 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern

I wonder if you should contact Google Inc.

Eric Schmidt, CEO
Telephone: (650) 623-4000

Address: 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway,
Mountain View, California, 94043
Plus, negoitiate a job as a special paralegal for the company, on 
retainer...
Good Luck
Darlene.Olsen at gmail.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:52 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern


> Hello all!
>
>
>
> I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
> had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in 
> finding
> employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
> including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>
>
>
> Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>
>
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Will
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/darlene.olsen%40gm
ail.com
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature database 4818 (20100129) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> 


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4819 (20100130) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com




_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
il.com



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 11:43:08 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 05:43:08 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <C0C7845FD68649459838AFC9565F4CE4@StevePC>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
	<C0C7845FD68649459838AFC9565F4CE4@StevePC>
Message-ID: <0a4801caa1a1$653d4040$2fb7c0c0$@com>

Well Steve, when I'm looking for a job I control where I send it to.   Every
Tom Dick and Harry who knows my phone number can google me and find me
whether I want them to or not.  It's just a bit of common sense on my part
where I don't want everybody knowing where I am.  that's all.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 7:57 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern

Why, if you are looking for employment?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 7:52 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern


> Hello all!
>
>
>
> I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
> had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in 
> finding
> employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
> including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>
>
>
> Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>
>
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Will
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
sightbb.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2655 - Release Date: 01/29/10 
09:08:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
il.com



From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 12:06:17 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 07:06:17 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
References: <5A1935AA978748F8AAD79C149CAEA936@spike>
Message-ID: <D26F6650E2074842B0ACAC6BD1055D49@hometwxakonvzn>

What is this case about? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
> 



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 12:14:53 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:14:53 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <auto-000137520014@mailfront1.g2host.com>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
	<auto-000137520014@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <0a5501caa1a5$d5076d70$7f164850$@com>

Hi David.  It is a copy of my resume.  It has my name, William T. Burley.
I'm not sure what the message said since it's been a very long time since I
put my resume on here.  Can you tell me what other information you may need?

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of David Andrews
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:29 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern

I can have it removed from the archives, if you give me specifics 
about the message, so we can find it.  However, stuff is cached by 
Google and others, so this doesn't mean it just disappears instantly.

David Andrews, List Owner

At 06:52 PM 1/29/2010, you wrote:
>Hello all!
>
>
>
>I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
>had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in
finding
>employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
>including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>
>
>
>Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>
>
>
>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
>Will
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.c
om
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4819 (20100130) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
il.com



From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 13:10:17 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:10:17 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
References: <5A1935AA978748F8AAD79C149CAEA936@spike>
Message-ID: <22AF0E62570442B1A47B7688EC3BA5BC@hometwxakonvzn>

David, I've tryed opening this attachment that charles has sent, and my 
computer says, that it can't open this file. Is this a PDF or what? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
> 



From AZNOR99 at aol.com  Sat Jan 30 14:21:40 2010
From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 09:21:40 EST
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
Message-ID: <277c.44bead76.38959a74@aol.com>

As I understand it,  a written opinion has not yet been  issued.  The judge 
indicated that the National Conference of Bar Examiners  violated 
Stephanie's rights by refusing to allow her to use the technology of  her choice to 
take the Multiple Choice Section of the Bar Exam.  I was not  present at the 
ruling, I only heard Dr. Maurer discuss it this morning.
 
Congratulations, Stephanie!  This has been a long time coming, and  
hopefully all blind lawyers will now be able to use the accommodations they deem  
necessary in all future Bar Examinations.
 
Ronza
 
 
 
In a message dated 1/30/2010 8:03:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com writes:

Hey, I  am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And where 
can I  find it on Line? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From:  <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47  AM
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


>  _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing  list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>  blindlaw:
>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/o
ptions/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>  


_______________________________________________
blindlaw  mailing  list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com


From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 15:53:02 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 10:53:02 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
References: <277c.44bead76.38959a74@aol.com>
Message-ID: <DB53344588D34107A0CF8AFDF360FACD@hometwxakonvzn>

Do you think this case will make it to the court of appeals? Even to the US 
supreme court? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <AZNOR99 at aol.com>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> As I understand it,  a written opinion has not yet been  issued.  The 
> judge
> indicated that the National Conference of Bar Examiners  violated
> Stephanie's rights by refusing to allow her to use the technology of  her 
> choice to
> take the Multiple Choice Section of the Bar Exam.  I was not  present at 
> the
> ruling, I only heard Dr. Maurer discuss it this morning.
>
> Congratulations, Stephanie!  This has been a long time coming, and
> hopefully all blind lawyers will now be able to use the accommodations 
> they deem
> necessary in all future Bar Examinations.
>
> Ronza
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/30/2010 8:03:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com writes:
>
> Hey, I  am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And where
> can I  find it on Line? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From:  <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47  AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>
>
>>  _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing  list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>  blindlaw:
>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/o
> ptions/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw  mailing  list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 



From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com  Sat Jan 30 16:07:31 2010
From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:07:31 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
Message-ID: <31F4778486EB434A905570AF65899591@russ>

If you had privacy concerns why did you post your information in a public
place?


-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of WB
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:53 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern

Hello all!

 

I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in finding
employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.

 

Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Will

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi
rm.com





From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 19:24:20 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:24:20 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <31F4778486EB434A905570AF65899591@russ>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
	<31F4778486EB434A905570AF65899591@russ>
Message-ID: <0aca01caa1e1$d38d8060$7aa88120$@com>

Well Russell, that's a simple anser to a simple question.  I put it in the
group because I was under the impression that this was a private archived
group.  There's a difference in sharing it with people who are interested in
helping you find employment and placing my information where it can be found
on Google.  I've placed my resume in other groups where it is privately
archived and I hadn't had that problem.  I didn't think this would be hard
to understand.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr.
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 10:08 AM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern

If you had privacy concerns why did you post your information in a public
place?


-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of WB
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:53 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern

Hello all!

 

I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in finding
employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.

 

Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Will

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi
rm.com




_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
il.com



From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Sat Jan 30 19:42:04 2010
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 12:42:04 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
References: <277c.44bead76.38959a74@aol.com>
	<DB53344588D34107A0CF8AFDF360FACD@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <339D26F839FF4A539D3145E0E697C140@labarre>

Friends, I am part of the legal team that secured this victory and was 
present yesterday when Judge Breyer announced his decision.  His written 
order will come out next week and we will certainly pass it on.  I doubt 
very much that the National Conference of Bar Examiners will appeal this but 
one never knows.  If they do, we will know immediately because they will 
need to request extremely expedited review.  They are  under order to 
provide the requested accommodations for the February 2010 bar exam.  This 
is a wonderful victory and I cannot tell  you how good it felt to hear Judge 
Breyer's decision yesterday morning.  We were prepared to make substantial 
arguments in favor of our motion for preliminary injunction but were 
delighted to see that Judge Breyer granted our motion immediately from the 
bench.  Opposing counsel attempted to talk him out of it or in some way get 
him to limit the ruling, but he batted such attempts away.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged 
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, 
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in 
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, 
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments 
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> Do you think this case will make it to the court of appeals? Even to the 
> US supreme court? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <AZNOR99 at aol.com>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>
>
>> As I understand it,  a written opinion has not yet been  issued.  The 
>> judge
>> indicated that the National Conference of Bar Examiners  violated
>> Stephanie's rights by refusing to allow her to use the technology of  her 
>> choice to
>> take the Multiple Choice Section of the Bar Exam.  I was not  present at 
>> the
>> ruling, I only heard Dr. Maurer discuss it this morning.
>>
>> Congratulations, Stephanie!  This has been a long time coming, and
>> hopefully all blind lawyers will now be able to use the accommodations 
>> they deem
>> necessary in all future Bar Examinations.
>>
>> Ronza
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/30/2010 8:03:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Hey, I  am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And 
>> where
>> can I  find it on Line? RJ
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From:  <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47  AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>>
>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing  list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>  blindlaw:
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/o
>> ptions/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw  mailing  list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com
> 




From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Sat Jan 30 20:12:30 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:12:30 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <31F4778486EB434A905570AF65899591@russ>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
	<31F4778486EB434A905570AF65899591@russ>
Message-ID: <3A7F6413395942238A14E32155392B52@StevePC>

Really!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." <rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern


> If you had privacy concerns why did you post your information in a public
> place?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of WB
> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:53 PM
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
> Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
>
> Hello all!
>
>
>
> I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
> had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in 
> finding
> employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
> including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>
>
>
> Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>
>
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Will
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi
> rm.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2657 - Release Date: 01/30/10 
07:35:00



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 20:14:01 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 14:14:01 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <3A7F6413395942238A14E32155392B52@StevePC>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>	<31F4778486EB434A905570AF65899591@russ>
	<3A7F6413395942238A14E32155392B52@StevePC>
Message-ID: <0af401caa1e8$c424ef80$4c6ece80$@com>

Is this that strange mentality rearing it's very ugly head? Hmmm.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:13 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern

Really!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." <rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern


> If you had privacy concerns why did you post your information in a public
> place?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of WB
> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:53 PM
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
> Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
>
> Hello all!
>
>
>
> I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
> had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in 
> finding
> employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
> including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>
>
>
> Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>
>
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Will
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi
> rm.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
sightbb.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2657 - Release Date: 01/30/10 
07:35:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
il.com



From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 20:40:55 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:40:55 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
References: <277c.44bead76.38959a74@aol.com><DB53344588D34107A0CF8AFDF360FACD@hometwxakonvzn>
	<339D26F839FF4A539D3145E0E697C140@labarre>
Message-ID: <48F4164E254D495FA445DED8C91E9D13@hometwxakonvzn>

How come this wasn't on the news? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott C. LaBarre" <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


Friends, I am part of the legal team that secured this victory and was
present yesterday when Judge Breyer announced his decision.  His written
order will come out next week and we will certainly pass it on.  I doubt
very much that the National Conference of Bar Examiners will appeal this but
one never knows.  If they do, we will know immediately because they will
need to request extremely expedited review.  They are  under order to
provide the requested accommodations for the February 2010 bar exam.  This
is a wonderful victory and I cannot tell  you how good it felt to hear Judge
Breyer's decision yesterday morning.  We were prepared to make substantial
arguments in favor of our motion for preliminary injunction but were
delighted to see that Judge Breyer granted our motion immediately from the
bench.  Opposing counsel attempted to talk him out of it or in some way get
him to limit the ruling, but he batted such attempts away.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read,
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> Do you think this case will make it to the court of appeals? Even to the 
> US supreme court? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <AZNOR99 at aol.com>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>
>
>> As I understand it,  a written opinion has not yet been  issued.  The 
>> judge
>> indicated that the National Conference of Bar Examiners  violated
>> Stephanie's rights by refusing to allow her to use the technology of  her 
>> choice to
>> take the Multiple Choice Section of the Bar Exam.  I was not  present at 
>> the
>> ruling, I only heard Dr. Maurer discuss it this morning.
>>
>> Congratulations, Stephanie!  This has been a long time coming, and
>> hopefully all blind lawyers will now be able to use the accommodations 
>> they deem
>> necessary in all future Bar Examinations.
>>
>> Ronza
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/30/2010 8:03:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Hey, I  am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And 
>> where
>> can I  find it on Line? RJ
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From:  <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47  AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>>
>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing  list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>  blindlaw:
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/o
>> ptions/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw  mailing  list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com
>



_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 



From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 20:48:28 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:48:28 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
References: <277c.44bead76.38959a74@aol.com><DB53344588D34107A0CF8AFDF360FACD@hometwxakonvzn>
	<339D26F839FF4A539D3145E0E697C140@labarre>
Message-ID: <4BEB6F033765464F944FB44B7609EFCE@hometwxakonvzn>

Does this have nation wide impact? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott C. LaBarre" <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


Friends, I am part of the legal team that secured this victory and was
present yesterday when Judge Breyer announced his decision.  His written
order will come out next week and we will certainly pass it on.  I doubt
very much that the National Conference of Bar Examiners will appeal this but
one never knows.  If they do, we will know immediately because they will
need to request extremely expedited review.  They are  under order to
provide the requested accommodations for the February 2010 bar exam.  This
is a wonderful victory and I cannot tell  you how good it felt to hear Judge
Breyer's decision yesterday morning.  We were prepared to make substantial
arguments in favor of our motion for preliminary injunction but were
delighted to see that Judge Breyer granted our motion immediately from the
bench.  Opposing counsel attempted to talk him out of it or in some way get
him to limit the ruling, but he batted such attempts away.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read,
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> Do you think this case will make it to the court of appeals? Even to the 
> US supreme court? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <AZNOR99 at aol.com>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>
>
>> As I understand it,  a written opinion has not yet been  issued.  The 
>> judge
>> indicated that the National Conference of Bar Examiners  violated
>> Stephanie's rights by refusing to allow her to use the technology of  her 
>> choice to
>> take the Multiple Choice Section of the Bar Exam.  I was not  present at 
>> the
>> ruling, I only heard Dr. Maurer discuss it this morning.
>>
>> Congratulations, Stephanie!  This has been a long time coming, and
>> hopefully all blind lawyers will now be able to use the accommodations 
>> they deem
>> necessary in all future Bar Examinations.
>>
>> Ronza
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/30/2010 8:03:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Hey, I  am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And 
>> where
>> can I  find it on Line? RJ
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From:  <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47  AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>>
>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing  list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>  blindlaw:
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/o
>> ptions/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw  mailing  list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com
>



_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 



From almomani at optonline.net  Sat Jan 30 21:08:25 2010
From: almomani at optonline.net (Mudhaffer Al-Momani)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 16:08:25 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
	<E21513943C7542ACBC4904E3301CAA60@DarleneOlsen>
Message-ID: <FDDE5042D8D14615937BF959F8F7E455@FJP7MG1>

Hi All,
Is there a way for me to get out of the list?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darlene Olsen" <darlene.olsen at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern


>I wonder if you should contact Google Inc.
>
> Eric Schmidt, CEO
> Telephone: (650) 623-4000
>
> Address: 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway,
> Mountain View, California, 94043
> Plus, negoitiate a job as a special paralegal for the company, on 
> retainer...
> Good Luck
> Darlene.Olsen at gmail.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:52 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
>
>
>> Hello all!
>>
>>
>>
>> I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
>> had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in 
>> finding
>> employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
>> including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>>
>>
>>
>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Will
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/darlene.olsen%40gmail.com
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
>> signature database 4818 (20100129) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature database 4819 (20100130) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/almomani%40optonline.net
> 



From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com  Sat Jan 30 21:50:06 2010
From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:50:06 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
In-Reply-To: <48F4164E254D495FA445DED8C91E9D13@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <277c.44bead76.38959a74@aol.com><DB53344588D34107A0CF8AFDF360FACD@hometwxakonvzn><339D26F839FF4A539D3145E0E697C140@labarre>
	<48F4164E254D495FA445DED8C91E9D13@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <A92289E000DD43D188CE79C811957A4D@russ>


Stories like this are generally ignored by the media either because the
media does not understand the issue or cannot relate very well to
individuals with disabilities.

I should also note that the story was in the LA Times; Saturday is a slow
news day, so let's see what happens next week, when the regular media people
are back to work. I am sure that there will be articles in publications
aimed at members of the Bar such as www.law.com  or Above the Law.




-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 12:41 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case

How come this wasn't on the news? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott C. LaBarre" <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


Friends, I am part of the legal team that secured this victory and was
present yesterday when Judge Breyer announced his decision.  His written
order will come out next week and we will certainly pass it on.  I doubt
very much that the National Conference of Bar Examiners will appeal this but
one never knows.  If they do, we will know immediately because they will
need to request extremely expedited review.  They are  under order to
provide the requested accommodations for the February 2010 bar exam.  This
is a wonderful victory and I cannot tell  you how good it felt to hear Judge
Breyer's decision yesterday morning.  We were prepared to make substantial
arguments in favor of our motion for preliminary injunction but were
delighted to see that Judge Breyer granted our motion immediately from the
bench.  Opposing counsel attempted to talk him out of it or in some way get
him to limit the ruling, but he batted such attempts away.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read,
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> Do you think this case will make it to the court of appeals? Even to the 
> US supreme court? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <AZNOR99 at aol.com>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>
>
>> As I understand it,  a written opinion has not yet been  issued.  The 
>> judge
>> indicated that the National Conference of Bar Examiners  violated
>> Stephanie's rights by refusing to allow her to use the technology of  her

>> choice to
>> take the Multiple Choice Section of the Bar Exam.  I was not  present at 
>> the
>> ruling, I only heard Dr. Maurer discuss it this morning.
>>
>> Congratulations, Stephanie!  This has been a long time coming, and
>> hopefully all blind lawyers will now be able to use the accommodations 
>> they deem
>> necessary in all future Bar Examinations.
>>
>> Ronza
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/30/2010 8:03:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Hey, I  am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And 
>> where
>> can I  find it on Line? RJ
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From:  <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47  AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>>
>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing  list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>  blindlaw:
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/o
>> ptions/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw  mailing  list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefu
r%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarre
law.com
>



_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefu
r%40gmail.com 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi
rm.com





From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Jan 31 02:20:13 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 20:20:13 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <0a5501caa1a5$d5076d70$7f164850$@com>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
	<auto-000137520014@mailfront1.g2host.com>
	<0a5501caa1a5$d5076d70$7f164850$@com>
Message-ID: <auto-000137306129@mailfront2.g2host.com>

The From:, subject, and possibly date would be good.

Dave

At 06:14 AM 1/30/2010, you wrote:
>Hi David.  It is a copy of my resume.  It has my name, William T. Burley.
>I'm not sure what the message said since it's been a very long time since I
>put my resume on here.  Can you tell me what other information you may need?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of David Andrews
>Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:29 AM
>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern
>
>I can have it removed from the archives, if you give me specifics
>about the message, so we can find it.  However, stuff is cached by
>Google and others, so this doesn't mean it just disappears instantly.
>
>David Andrews, List Owner
>
>At 06:52 PM 1/29/2010, you wrote:
> >Hello all!
> >
> >
> >
> >I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
> >had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in
>finding
> >employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
> >including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
> >



From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Jan 31 02:21:55 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 20:21:55 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <FDDE5042D8D14615937BF959F8F7E455@FJP7MG1>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
	<E21513943C7542ACBC4904E3301CAA60@DarleneOlsen>
	<FDDE5042D8D14615937BF959F8F7E455@FJP7MG1>
Message-ID: <auto-000137572529@mailfront1.g2host.com>

When you say get out do you mean unsubscribe.  If so, there is a link 
at the bottom of each message.

Dave

At 03:08 PM 1/30/2010, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>Is there a way for me to get out of the list?
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Darlene Olsen" <darlene.olsen at gmail.com>
>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:59 PM
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern
>
>
>>I wonder if you should contact Google Inc.
>>
>>Eric Schmidt, CEO
>>Telephone: (650) 623-4000
>>
>>Address: 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway,
>>Mountain View, California, 94043
>>Plus, negoitiate a job as a special paralegal for the company, on retainer...
>>Good Luck
>>Darlene.Olsen at gmail.com
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:52 PM
>>Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
>>
>>
>>>Hello all!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
>>>had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in finding
>>>employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
>>>including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Will



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 31 07:48:24 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 23:48:24 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
In-Reply-To: <1B694C84998F497E8668504A77354CC6@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <5A1935AA978748F8AAD79C149CAEA936@spike>
	<1B694C84998F497E8668504A77354CC6@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <ADDDF1A2C1F645968A1BDA306FB8FA4C@spike>

it was an article from the L.A. Times. I'm not sure why it didn't come 
through.
Chuck

latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-us-bar-exam-ruling,0,5871149.story

latimes.com
Judge says officials wrong to prohibit blind UCLA grad's use of computer 
during state bar exam
By Associated Press

3:36 PM PST, January 29, 2010

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - A federal judge says a blind law school graduate can 
use a computer during the multiple-choice portion of the California bar 
exam, a test all must pass to practice law in the state.

U.S. District Court Judge Charles Breyer ruled Friday that University of 
California, Los Angeles law school graduate Stephanie Enyart's request to 
use software designed for blind test takers was a reasonable request.

The National Conference of Bar Examiners Inc., which administers that 
portion of the test for the State Bar of California, had cited security 
concerns in its opposition of Enyart's request.

The nonprofit argued it made several significant accommodations - such as 
extra time and allowing a live reader - so that Enyart could take the 
paper-and-pencil exam.

The exam starts Feb. 23.







Copyright 2010 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not 
be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 3:40 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> Hey, I am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And where 
> can I find it on Line? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47 AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 31 07:54:02 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 23:54:02 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
In-Reply-To: <D26F6650E2074842B0ACAC6BD1055D49@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <5A1935AA978748F8AAD79C149CAEA936@spike>
	<D26F6650E2074842B0ACAC6BD1055D49@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <E1FD945C33004997923370278C8B80F9@spike>

I am sending you the information off list in case the article doesn't come 
through again. This was the case that the NFB was involved in that recently 
was released to address the unwillingness of the Conference of Bar Examiners 
to allow the plaintiff to use a computer with JAWS to the multiple choice 
portion of the bar exam. The article is below.
Chuck


latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-us-bar-exam-ruling,0,5871149.story

latimes.com
Judge says officials wrong to prohibit blind UCLA grad's use of computer 
during state bar exam
By Associated Press

3:36 PM PST, January 29, 2010

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - A federal judge says a blind law school graduate can 
use a computer during the multiple-choice portion of the California bar 
exam, a test all must pass to practice law in the state.

U.S. District Court Judge Charles Breyer ruled Friday that University of 
California, Los Angeles law school graduate Stephanie Enyart's request to 
use software designed for blind test takers was a reasonable request.

The National Conference of Bar Examiners Inc., which administers that 
portion of the test for the State Bar of California, had cited security 
concerns in its opposition of Enyart's request.

The nonprofit argued it made several significant accommodations - such as 
extra time and allowing a live reader - so that Enyart could take the 
paper-and-pencil exam.

The exam starts Feb. 23.







Copyright 2010 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not 
be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:06 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> What is this case about? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47 AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Sun Jan 31 17:47:52 2010
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 10:47:52 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
References: <277c.44bead76.38959a74@aol.com><DB53344588D34107A0CF8AFDF360FACD@hometwxakonvzn><339D26F839FF4A539D3145E0E697C140@labarre>
	<48F4164E254D495FA445DED8C91E9D13@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <3E18432553444B4CBC8448562675DB54@labarre>

As you have seen, we have gotten some news coverage of this from several 
California papers and the AP.  Right after the ruling, we spoke to a group 
of reporters right outside the courtroom who had observed the hearing.  I 
suspect that there will be some more coverage once Judge Breyer's written 
decision is issued.  As for the effect of this case nationwide, technically 
this is a case that only applies to Ms. Enyart.  It is not a class action. 
However, NCBE will think long and hard before denying this type of 
accommodation request again.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged 
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, 
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in 
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, 
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments 
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


How come this wasn't on the news? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott C. LaBarre" <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


Friends, I am part of the legal team that secured this victory and was
present yesterday when Judge Breyer announced his decision.  His written
order will come out next week and we will certainly pass it on.  I doubt
very much that the National Conference of Bar Examiners will appeal this but
one never knows.  If they do, we will know immediately because they will
need to request extremely expedited review.  They are  under order to
provide the requested accommodations for the February 2010 bar exam.  This
is a wonderful victory and I cannot tell  you how good it felt to hear Judge
Breyer's decision yesterday morning.  We were prepared to make substantial
arguments in favor of our motion for preliminary injunction but were
delighted to see that Judge Breyer granted our motion immediately from the
bench.  Opposing counsel attempted to talk him out of it or in some way get
him to limit the ruling, but he batted such attempts away.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read,
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> Do you think this case will make it to the court of appeals? Even to the 
> US supreme court? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <AZNOR99 at aol.com>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>
>
>> As I understand it,  a written opinion has not yet been  issued.  The 
>> judge
>> indicated that the National Conference of Bar Examiners  violated
>> Stephanie's rights by refusing to allow her to use the technology of  her 
>> choice to
>> take the Multiple Choice Section of the Bar Exam.  I was not  present at 
>> the
>> ruling, I only heard Dr. Maurer discuss it this morning.
>>
>> Congratulations, Stephanie!  This has been a long time coming, and
>> hopefully all blind lawyers will now be able to use the accommodations 
>> they deem
>> necessary in all future Bar Examinations.
>>
>> Ronza
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/30/2010 8:03:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Hey, I  am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And 
>> where
>> can I  find it on Line? RJ
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From:  <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47  AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>>
>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing  list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>  blindlaw:
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/o
>> ptions/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw  mailing  list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com
>



_______________________________________________
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blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com


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blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com




From cdanielsen8 at aol.com  Sun Jan 31 19:16:06 2010
From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:16:06 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
In-Reply-To: <339D26F839FF4A539D3145E0E697C140@labarre>
References: <277c.44bead76.38959a74@aol.com><DB53344588D34107A0CF8AFDF360FACD@hometwxakonvzn>
	<339D26F839FF4A539D3145E0E697C140@labarre>
Message-ID: <841D093690344A4283AE00B070FABC06@Scorpio13>

Scott,

This is great news and it's awesome that the judge ruled without oral
argument. Congratulations on this victory.

Chris
 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:42 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case

Friends, I am part of the legal team that secured this victory and was
present yesterday when Judge Breyer announced his decision.  His written
order will come out next week and we will certainly pass it on.  I doubt
very much that the National Conference of Bar Examiners will appeal this but
one never knows.  If they do, we will know immediately because they will
need to request extremely expedited review.  They are  under order to
provide the requested accommodations for the February 2010 bar exam.  This
is a wonderful victory and I cannot tell  you how good it felt to hear Judge
Breyer's decision yesterday morning.  We were prepared to make substantial
arguments in favor of our motion for preliminary injunction but were
delighted to see that Judge Breyer granted our motion immediately from the
bench.  Opposing counsel attempted to talk him out of it or in some way get
him to limit the ruling, but he batted such attempts away.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read,
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments
are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§
2510-2521.
----- Original Message -----
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> Do you think this case will make it to the court of appeals? Even to 
> the US supreme court? RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <AZNOR99 at aol.com>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>
>
>> As I understand it,  a written opinion has not yet been  issued.  The 
>> judge indicated that the National Conference of Bar Examiners  
>> violated Stephanie's rights by refusing to allow her to use the 
>> technology of  her choice to take the Multiple Choice Section of the 
>> Bar Exam.  I was not  present at the ruling, I only heard Dr. Maurer 
>> discuss it this morning.
>>
>> Congratulations, Stephanie!  This has been a long time coming, and 
>> hopefully all blind lawyers will now be able to use the 
>> accommodations they deem necessary in all future Bar Examinations.
>>
>> Ronza
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/30/2010 8:03:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
>> joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Hey, I  am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And 
>> where can I  find it on Line? RJ
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From:  <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47  AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>>
>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing  list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>>  blindlaw:
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/o
>> ptions/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw  mailing  list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>> for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40a
>> ol.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjack
>> sandefur%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40l
> abarrelaw.com
> 



_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol.
com

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4822 (20100131) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4822 (20100131) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 


From editor.nftb at gmail.com  Fri Jan  1 05:18:45 2010
From: editor.nftb at gmail.com (Will May)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 00:18:45 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Intro and request for assistance
In-Reply-To: <017101ca898a$58b17f00$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
References: <017101ca898a$58b17f00$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
Message-ID: <bd5993380912312118k7f606a36k249229a1cf25045f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tammy, The professor is a muppet.  SoldierGirl can certainly be an
attorney, she just has to work harder, but the name she chose implies
that.

I am not an attorney, but am very familiar with a narrow sliver of the
law; bankruptcy practice; I have been a federal trustee for
substantial bankrupt estates 11 times over three decades.

Were she to have interest in this area of practice, glad to share knowledge,

Will

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 2:57 PM, tammy cantrell
<t.l.cantrell at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hello!
> My name is Tammy.  I was referred to this list because I am trying to help a College student with a challenging problem.  I do look forward to hearing your comments and suggestions.  I will just copy my email that got me pointed in your direction.  Thanks so much for your help!
> Hello!
> I am looking for some input on behalf of a College student.  I will share her story and hopefully somebody would offer some suggestions or a resource.
>
> This student is blind and is currently working on a bachelor's degree in Political Science.  Her plans are to become a lawyer.  She has tried to participate in Mock Trials but has met up with problems.  The professor says she can only be the witness but because she is blind she can not be the lawyer.  He says since she can't quickly read through the documents, she will not be able to question the witness and present her case.
>
> This student has high expectations for herself and I hate to see her fall short of her goals because of discrimination or ignorance.
>
> I have been given permission to share her email address;
> soldiergirl2010 at aol.com
>
> If you would be willing to share ideas with her, it would be so very much appreciated!  If you don't have ideas and know somebody that might, please pass this on to them.  Your help is greatly needed.
>
> Thanks for all of your help!
> Smile! GOD loves you!
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmail.com
>


From rjaquiss at earthlink.net  Fri Jan  1 18:45:15 2010
From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 12:45:15 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file
References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn><A81BF68C5437437AB9806878A94B7B25@FJP7MG1>
	<001201ca8996$085ca730$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <FA63439202BF4FBC8C27F1A65ACB4EE9@D3DTZP41>

Hello RJ:

     The file you sent was empty. It was zero bytes long.

Regards,

Robert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] PDF file


>I don't have courswall. How long does it take to print out this document on
> verchoal pinteral? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mudhaffer Al-Momani" <almomani at optonline.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 7:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] PDF file
>
>
>> Hi
>> This is what I do
>> Open the PDF file the print it out by pressing control P then choose
>> vertual printer if you have Kersweil on your computer then hit enter. It
>> will open it in Kersweil then you can read it or save it as a word
>> document.
>> Good luck
>> Mudhaffer
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 8:14 PM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file
>>
>>
>>> Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for these
>>> types of files? RJ
>>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/almomani%40optonline.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net
> 



From dandrews at visi.com  Fri Jan  1 22:40:59 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 16:40:59 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file
In-Reply-To: <74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7446@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot .gov>
References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
	<auto-000132937851@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7446@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov>
Message-ID: <auto-000133323625@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Just like a lawyer to have to argue about the purpose of the list, 
(smile.)  Yes, most lawyers are going to have to use technology 
successfully to succeed today.  Consequently, I know that there is 
going to be some technology discussion here.  However, I was trying 
to make two points.  First, this list probably isn't the best source 
of technical advice, as most of the people here are not primarily 
technology-related.  That is why I suggested gui-talk.  To illustrate 
my point, if you had a question about  software licensing, you might 
get an answer at gui-talk -- but this list might be a better 
choice.  My second point was that if a list goes off topic to far, 
for to long, people start dropping away.  I just wanted to gently 
remind people of the purpose of the list, so the discussion could 
take place and end.

Now that you brought this up we will probably get in a long 
discussion about the purpose of the list etc.

Dave

At 11:10 AM 12/31/2009, you wrote:
>Dave,
>If one who is blind is to be a successful attorney, isn't the knowledge
>of what that individual's colleagues are doing with respect to greater
>access of documents on topic?  This list has always been not only for
>the discussion of blindness and the law but a list for blind attorneys
>to collaborate and not reinvent the wheel.  In my humble opinion, if
>questions related to converting legal documents sent as PDFs is off
>topic, then perhaps the participation by non-attorneys or non-legal
>professionals/law students on this list is also not appropriate?
>
>Respectfully,
>Craig
>
>Craig Borne, Esq.
>NHTSA/DOT
>(202) 493-0627
>craig.borne at dot.gov
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>On Behalf Of David Andrews
>Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:26 AM
>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] PDF file
>
>This list is not a technology list, but for discussion of blindness
>and the law.
>
>Dave
>
>At 07:14 PM 12/27/2009, you wrote:
> >Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for
> >these types of files? RJ
> >
> >
> >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> >signature database 4723 (20091228) __________
> >
> >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
> >
> >http://www.eset.com
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >blindlaw mailing list
> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >for blindlaw:
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi
>si.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/craig.borne%40
>dot.gov
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4735 (20100101) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com



From b75205 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  2 05:54:18 2010
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 23:54:18 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file
In-Reply-To: <auto-000133323625@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
	<auto-000132937851@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7446@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov>
	<auto-000133323625@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <fe5b78281001012154r6c8ce71ck4b688cfabffbae2f@mail.gmail.com>

If you have Adobe Acrobat Professional, you can go to menus and
select Document tab and click on OCR Recognition (which uses the capital C
for the shortcut), then select "Recognize Text Using OCR . . ."  Then you
save the file after this function finishes.  Then you reopen the file.
Chances are this will not work very well but it is your best bet.  Most
forms and other types of legal documents use fonts that are not good enough
for most OCR work.  But since this is built into Adobe Acrobat Professional
it is the best solution that is easy to use.

James Pepper

From pattichang at att.net  Sat Jan  2 18:57:06 2010
From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory-Chang)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 12:57:06 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Intro and request for assistance
References: <017101ca898a$58b17f00$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
Message-ID: <A967E7C62BDA4D179C0A4EC96AE4D95D@D3J75Z91>

I did moot court and trial ad not to mention clinics at Univ of Chicago Law 
School.  Has she talked to the Dean yet?  This is discrimination plain and 
simple.  We have an attorney in Illinois named Denise Avant who will be 
arguing for real before the IL Supreme Court this month.  Lots of us 
litigate in real court rooms all over the country.


P.S.  National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at 
www.twitter.com/nfbi.
We also have a facebook page.  Just search for our full name.

Patti Gregory-Chang
President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois
pattichang at att.net
www.nfbofillinois.org
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "tammy cantrell" <t.l.cantrell at comcast.net>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:57 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Intro and request for assistance


> Hello!
> My name is Tammy.  I was referred to this list because I am trying to help 
> a College student with a challenging problem.  I do look forward to 
> hearing your comments and suggestions.  I will just copy my email that got 
> me pointed in your direction.  Thanks so much for your help!
> Hello!
> I am looking for some input on behalf of a College student.  I will share 
> her story and hopefully somebody would offer some suggestions or a 
> resource.
>
> This student is blind and is currently working on a bachelor's degree in 
> Political Science.  Her plans are to become a lawyer.  She has tried to 
> participate in Mock Trials but has met up with problems.  The professor 
> says she can only be the witness but because she is blind she can not be 
> the lawyer.  He says since she can't quickly read through the documents, 
> she will not be able to question the witness and present her case.
>
> This student has high expectations for herself and I hate to see her fall 
> short of her goals because of discrimination or ignorance.
>
> I have been given permission to share her email address;
> soldiergirl2010 at aol.com
>
> If you would be willing to share ideas with her, it would be so very much 
> appreciated!  If you don't have ideas and know somebody that might, please 
> pass this on to them.  Your help is greatly needed.
>
> Thanks for all of your help!
> Smile! GOD loves you!
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net 


From deepa.goraya at gmail.com  Sat Jan  2 19:39:36 2010
From: deepa.goraya at gmail.com (Deepa Goraya)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 14:39:36 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] my friend is in need of a lawyer
Message-ID: <D245E3690C69434391A28F990E8BF1A0@Goraya>

Hello List,

My friend Angela Garey is battling in court for custody over her son. She is almost totally blind and so far the court has only granted her visitation rights and has given full custody to the father who is sighted. She is due back in court in mid January and cannot afford a lawyer. The father, however, has an attorney. Is there anyone in southern California who can take her case or does anyone know of any attorneys who can? Her case will take place in Riverside. Please contact me for more info.

Thanks so much,

Deepa Goraya

From attorney at alcidonislaw.com  Sat Jan  2 20:29:08 2010
From: attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:29:08 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Intro and request for assistance
In-Reply-To: <A967E7C62BDA4D179C0A4EC96AE4D95D@D3J75Z91>
References: <017101ca898a$58b17f00$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
	<A967E7C62BDA4D179C0A4EC96AE4D95D@D3J75Z91>
Message-ID: <299C90F8C02A489DA7A827B85FA1B70E@RodelynPC>

As lawyers, let's be careful with crying discrimination without knowing more 
about the situation. This can be a case where the professor is misinformed 
rather than anything else. If it is taking the student two hours to do a 
mock direct examination where it is taking a sighted student 10 minutes, 
there is a problem. I am not saying this is the case but the professor may 
feel a bit concerned with how things are happening in his classroom.

We need to know what accommodations the student is working with, and what it 
is she is doing to litigate. While many blind lawyers can do trial work, 
many cannot. This is dirty business.

Solution: both the professor and student have to be educated on the issues. 
I doubt that the professor is even an attorney, let alone a practicing one. 
Maybe the student is not organizing her work in a workable manner.

Rod Alcidonis
Attorney and Counselor at Law
Philadelphia, PA
Licensed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey
Phone: (215) 821-6047
Cell: (718) 704-4651
Attorney at alcidonislaw.com

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" <pattichang at att.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:57 PM
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Intro and request for assistance

> I did moot court and trial ad not to mention clinics at Univ of Chicago 
> Law School.  Has she talked to the Dean yet?  This is discrimination plain 
> and simple.  We have an attorney in Illinois named Denise Avant who will 
> be arguing for real before the IL Supreme Court this month.  Lots of us 
> litigate in real court rooms all over the country.
>
>
> P.S.  National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at 
> www.twitter.com/nfbi.
> We also have a facebook page.  Just search for our full name.
>
> Patti Gregory-Chang
> President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois
> pattichang at att.net
> www.nfbofillinois.org
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "tammy cantrell" <t.l.cantrell at comcast.net>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:57 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Intro and request for assistance
>
>
>> Hello!
>> My name is Tammy.  I was referred to this list because I am trying to 
>> help a College student with a challenging problem.  I do look forward to 
>> hearing your comments and suggestions.  I will just copy my email that 
>> got me pointed in your direction.  Thanks so much for your help!
>> Hello!
>> I am looking for some input on behalf of a College student.  I will share 
>> her story and hopefully somebody would offer some suggestions or a 
>> resource.
>>
>> This student is blind and is currently working on a bachelor's degree in 
>> Political Science.  Her plans are to become a lawyer.  She has tried to 
>> participate in Mock Trials but has met up with problems.  The professor 
>> says she can only be the witness but because she is blind she can not be 
>> the lawyer.  He says since she can't quickly read through the documents, 
>> she will not be able to question the witness and present her case.
>>
>> This student has high expectations for herself and I hate to see her fall 
>> short of her goals because of discrimination or ignorance.
>>
>> I have been given permission to share her email address;
>> soldiergirl2010 at aol.com
>>
>> If you would be willing to share ideas with her, it would be so very much 
>> appreciated!  If you don't have ideas and know somebody that might, 
>> please pass this on to them.  Your help is greatly needed.
>>
>> Thanks for all of your help!
>> Smile! GOD loves you!
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com 



From attorney at alcidonislaw.com  Sat Jan  2 21:09:41 2010
From: attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 16:09:41 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] my friend is in need of a lawyer
In-Reply-To: <D245E3690C69434391A28F990E8BF1A0@Goraya>
References: <D245E3690C69434391A28F990E8BF1A0@Goraya>
Message-ID: <A3376E62C3C9426FA9E0D06AF27D0B84@RodelynPC>

Call the local bar association -- some of them have attorney referral.
A legal aide office may also take the case pro bono.

Rod Alcidonis
Attorney and Counselor at Law
Philadelphia, PA
Licensed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey
Phone: (215) 821-6047
Cell: (718) 704-4651
Attorney at alcidonislaw.com

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Deepa Goraya" <deepa.goraya at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 2:39 PM
To: "blindlaw" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [blindlaw] my friend is in need of a lawyer

> Hello List,
>
> My friend Angela Garey is battling in court for custody over her son. She 
> is almost totally blind and so far the court has only granted her 
> visitation rights and has given full custody to the father who is sighted. 
> She is due back in court in mid January and cannot afford a lawyer. The 
> father, however, has an attorney. Is there anyone in southern California 
> who can take her case or does anyone know of any attorneys who can? Her 
> case will take place in Riverside. Please contact me for more info.
>
> Thanks so much,
>
> Deepa Goraya
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com 



From cdborne at gmail.com  Sat Jan  2 23:00:32 2010
From: cdborne at gmail.com (Craig Borne)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 18:00:32 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78281001012154r6c8ce71ck4b688cfabffbae2f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
	<auto-000132937851@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7446@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov>
	<auto-000133323625@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<fe5b78281001012154r6c8ce71ck4b688cfabffbae2f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9ff3c6ac1001021500p13bc8c8bs881f72c414df60@mail.gmail.com>

I am not sure how you have it set up, but if you already have the PDF,
you simply launch ABBYYY fine reader, press control + W, locate the
PDF, and press enter.  The PDF will be converted into Word.
Craig

On 1/2/10, James Pepper <b75205 at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you have Adobe Acrobat Professional, you can go to menus and
> select Document tab and click on OCR Recognition (which uses the capital C
> for the shortcut), then select "Recognize Text Using OCR . . ."  Then you
> save the file after this function finishes.  Then you reopen the file.
> Chances are this will not work very well but it is your best bet.  Most
> forms and other types of legal documents use fonts that are not good enough
> for most OCR work.  But since this is built into Adobe Acrobat Professional
> it is the best solution that is easy to use.
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.com
>


From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan  3 04:00:25 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 20:00:25 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] my friend is in need of a lawyer
In-Reply-To: <A3376E62C3C9426FA9E0D06AF27D0B84@RodelynPC>
References: <D245E3690C69434391A28F990E8BF1A0@Goraya>
	<A3376E62C3C9426FA9E0D06AF27D0B84@RodelynPC>
Message-ID: <89965BE0511A4ABAB28511AD0D3ABCF0@spike>

Yes, the Riverside County Bar Association has a lawyer referral service. 
Their web site isriversidecountybar.com.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rod Alcidonis" <attorney at alcidonislaw.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] my friend is in need of a lawyer


> Call the local bar association -- some of them have attorney referral.
> A legal aide office may also take the case pro bono.
>
> Rod Alcidonis
> Attorney and Counselor at Law
> Philadelphia, PA
> Licensed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey
> Phone: (215) 821-6047
> Cell: (718) 704-4651
> Attorney at alcidonislaw.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Deepa Goraya" <deepa.goraya at gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 2:39 PM
> To: "blindlaw" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [blindlaw] my friend is in need of a lawyer
>
>> Hello List,
>>
>> My friend Angela Garey is battling in court for custody over her son. She 
>> is almost totally blind and so far the court has only granted her 
>> visitation rights and has given full custody to the father who is 
>> sighted. She is due back in court in mid January and cannot afford a 
>> lawyer. The father, however, has an attorney. Is there anyone in southern 
>> California who can take her case or does anyone know of any attorneys who 
>> can? Her case will take place in Riverside. Please contact me for more 
>> info.
>>
>> Thanks so much,
>>
>> Deepa Goraya
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From clucas at disabilitypride.com  Sun Jan  3 15:53:16 2010
From: clucas at disabilitypride.com (Carrie Ann Lucas)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 08:53:16 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] my friend is in need of a lawyer
In-Reply-To: <A3376E62C3C9426FA9E0D06AF27D0B84@RodelynPC>
References: <D245E3690C69434391A28F990E8BF1A0@Goraya>
	<A3376E62C3C9426FA9E0D06AF27D0B84@RodelynPC>
Message-ID: <15750FADD4F140A1820CCECF61D1B243@carrie9c3a269f>

 Has your friend contacted Through the Looking Glass (www.lookingglass.org)
for technical assistance and attorney referrals?  They are an organization
that supports parents with disabilities in California, and they operate a
technical assistance and information and referral line nationwide.

Carrie Ann Lucas
Director Center for Rights of Parents with Disabilities 
Colorado Cross-Disability Coalition
655 Broadway, Suite 775
Denver, CO 80203
303.839.1775 (main and messages)
303.839.0015 (direct and TTY)
303.839.1782 (facsimile)
800.817.1435 (main and messages)
877.267.1621 (direct and TTY)
www.ccdconline.org 

The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged,
confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended
recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly
prohibited. If you think you have received this message in error, please
e-mail the sender at clucas at ccdconline.org and delete it permanently from
your computer files. Thank you.



-----Original Message-----

From: "Deepa Goraya" <deepa.goraya at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 2:39 PM
To: "blindlaw" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [blindlaw] my friend is in need of a lawyer

> Hello List,
>
> My friend Angela Garey is battling in court for custody over her son. 
> She is almost totally blind and so far the court has only granted her 
> visitation rights and has given full custody to the father who is sighted.
> She is due back in court in mid January and cannot afford a lawyer. 
> The father, however, has an attorney. Is there anyone in southern 
> California who can take her case or does anyone know of any attorneys 
> who can? Her case will take place in Riverside. Please contact me for more
info.
>
> Thanks so much,
>
> Deepa Goraya



From womankind at earthlink.net  Sun Jan  3 18:51:17 2010
From: womankind at earthlink.net (Stephanie Ortoleva)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 13:51:17 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] ABBYYY fine reader
In-Reply-To: <9ff3c6ac1001021500p13bc8c8bs881f72c414df60@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
	<auto-000132937851@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7446@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov>
	<auto-000133323625@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<fe5b78281001012154r6c8ce71ck4b688cfabffbae2f@mail.gmail.com>
	<9ff3c6ac1001021500p13bc8c8bs881f72c414df60@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1NRVY4-0003gS-Tk@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

What is ABBYYY fine reader?
At 06:00 PM 1/2/2010, you wrote:
>I am not sure how you have it set up, but if you already have the PDF,
>you simply launch ABBYYY fine reader, press control + W, locate the
>PDF, and press enter.  The PDF will be converted into Word.
>Craig
>
>On 1/2/10, James Pepper <b75205 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > If you have Adobe Acrobat Professional, you can go to menus and
> > select Document tab and click on OCR Recognition (which uses the capital C
> > for the shortcut), then select "Recognize Text Using OCR . . ."  Then you
> > save the file after this function finishes.  Then you reopen the file.
> > Chances are this will not work very well but it is your best bet.  Most
> > forms and other types of legal documents use fonts that are not good enough
> > for most OCR work.  But since this is built into Adobe Acrobat Professional
> > it is the best solution that is easy to use.
> >
> > James Pepper
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindlaw:
> > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.com
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/womankind%40earthlink.net



From cdborne at gmail.com  Sun Jan  3 20:00:42 2010
From: cdborne at gmail.com (Craig Borne)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 15:00:42 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] ABBYYY fine reader
In-Reply-To: <E1NRVY4-0003gS-Tk@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
	<auto-000132937851@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7446@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov>
	<auto-000133323625@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<fe5b78281001012154r6c8ce71ck4b688cfabffbae2f@mail.gmail.com>
	<9ff3c6ac1001021500p13bc8c8bs881f72c414df60@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NRVY4-0003gS-Tk@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9ff3c6ac1001031200q3e460b81q94de4a049e1961de@mail.gmail.com>

Check out http://finereader.abbyy.com/professional
Craig

On 1/3/10, Stephanie Ortoleva <womankind at earthlink.net> wrote:
> What is ABBYYY fine reader?
> At 06:00 PM 1/2/2010, you wrote:
>>I am not sure how you have it set up, but if you already have the PDF,
>>you simply launch ABBYYY fine reader, press control + W, locate the
>>PDF, and press enter.  The PDF will be converted into Word.
>>Craig
>>
>>On 1/2/10, James Pepper <b75205 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > If you have Adobe Acrobat Professional, you can go to menus and
>> > select Document tab and click on OCR Recognition (which uses the capital
>> > C
>> > for the shortcut), then select "Recognize Text Using OCR . . ."  Then
>> > you
>> > save the file after this function finishes.  Then you reopen the file.
>> > Chances are this will not work very well but it is your best bet.  Most
>> > forms and other types of legal documents use fonts that are not good
>> > enough
>> > for most OCR work.  But since this is built into Adobe Acrobat
>> > Professional
>> > it is the best solution that is easy to use.
>> >
>> > James Pepper
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindlaw mailing list
>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > blindlaw:
>> >
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/womankind%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.com
>


From almomani at optonline.net  Sun Jan  3 21:24:48 2010
From: almomani at optonline.net (Mudhaffer Al-Momani)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 16:24:48 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] ABBYYY fine reader
References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
	<auto-000132937851@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7446@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov>
	<auto-000133323625@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<fe5b78281001012154r6c8ce71ck4b688cfabffbae2f@mail.gmail.com>
	<9ff3c6ac1001021500p13bc8c8bs881f72c414df60@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1NRVY4-0003gS-Tk@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <D721C2127B7F4DC8B43356E204CE7C72@FJP7MG1>

Great question:-)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephanie Ortoleva" <womankind at earthlink.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 1:51 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] ABBYYY fine reader


> What is ABBYYY fine reader?
> At 06:00 PM 1/2/2010, you wrote:
>>I am not sure how you have it set up, but if you already have the PDF,
>>you simply launch ABBYYY fine reader, press control + W, locate the
>>PDF, and press enter.  The PDF will be converted into Word.
>>Craig
>>
>>On 1/2/10, James Pepper <b75205 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > If you have Adobe Acrobat Professional, you can go to menus and
>> > select Document tab and click on OCR Recognition (which uses the 
>> > capital C
>> > for the shortcut), then select "Recognize Text Using OCR . . ."  Then 
>> > you
>> > save the file after this function finishes.  Then you reopen the file.
>> > Chances are this will not work very well but it is your best bet.  Most
>> > forms and other types of legal documents use fonts that are not good 
>> > enough
>> > for most OCR work.  But since this is built into Adobe Acrobat 
>> > Professional
>> > it is the best solution that is easy to use.
>> >
>> > James Pepper
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindlaw mailing list
>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > blindlaw:
>> >
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/womankind%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/almomani%40optonline.net
> 



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Sun Jan  3 22:21:24 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 17:21:24 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] ABBYYY fine reader
In-Reply-To: <E1NRVY4-0003gS-Tk@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <14B0A83F10F74BCE99F548A9FDE8CAC7@Rufus>

It's like Openbook or Kurzweil, except a lot cheaper and much better.  You
do not have to use a blindness-specific application to produce great OCR.
ABBYY Finereader proves it.

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Ortoleva
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 1:51 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] ABBYYY fine reader

What is ABBYYY fine reader?
At 06:00 PM 1/2/2010, you wrote:
>I am not sure how you have it set up, but if you already have the PDF,
>you simply launch ABBYYY fine reader, press control + W, locate the
>PDF, and press enter.  The PDF will be converted into Word.
>Craig
>
>On 1/2/10, James Pepper <b75205 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > If you have Adobe Acrobat Professional, you can go to menus and
> > select Document tab and click on OCR Recognition (which 
uses the capital C
> > for the shortcut), then select "Recognize Text Using OCR . 
. ."  Then you
> > save the file after this function finishes.  Then you 
reopen the file.
> > Chances are this will not work very well but it is your 
best bet.  Most
> > forms and other types of legal documents use fonts that are 
not good enough
> > for most OCR work.  But since this is built into Adobe 
Acrobat Professional
> > it is the best solution that is easy to use.
> >
> > James Pepper
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
account info for
> > blindlaw:
> > 
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborn
e%40gmail.com
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/woman
kind%40earthlink.net


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz
co%40gmail.com
 

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From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Mon Jan  4 00:30:10 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 19:30:10 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] ABBYYY fine reader
In-Reply-To: <14B0A83F10F74BCE99F548A9FDE8CAC7@Rufus>
References: <14B0A83F10F74BCE99F548A9FDE8CAC7@Rufus>
Message-ID: <92C5C07A5CB8495EBCAB68AFC8BC2982@StevePC>

How much is it, and where do you obtain it?
Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ABBYYY fine reader


> It's like Openbook or Kurzweil, except a lot cheaper and much better.  You
> do not have to use a blindness-specific application to produce great OCR.
> ABBYY Finereader proves it.
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Ortoleva
> Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 1:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] ABBYYY fine reader
>
> What is ABBYYY fine reader?
> At 06:00 PM 1/2/2010, you wrote:
>>I am not sure how you have it set up, but if you already have the PDF,
>>you simply launch ABBYYY fine reader, press control + W, locate the
>>PDF, and press enter.  The PDF will be converted into Word.
>>Craig
>>
>>On 1/2/10, James Pepper <b75205 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > If you have Adobe Acrobat Professional, you can go to menus and
>> > select Document tab and click on OCR Recognition (which
> uses the capital C
>> > for the shortcut), then select "Recognize Text Using OCR .
> . ."  Then you
>> > save the file after this function finishes.  Then you
> reopen the file.
>> > Chances are this will not work very well but it is your
> best bet.  Most
>> > forms and other types of legal documents use fonts that are
> not good enough
>> > for most OCR work.  But since this is built into Adobe
> Acrobat Professional
>> > it is the best solution that is easy to use.
>> >
>> > James Pepper
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindlaw mailing list
>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for
>> > blindlaw:
>> >
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborn
> e%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/woman
> kind%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz
> co%40gmail.com
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
> virus signature database 4738 (20100102) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 4738 (20100102) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2598 - Release Date: 01/03/10 
09:41:00



From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com  Mon Jan  4 18:49:22 2010
From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:49:22 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file
References: <20091229.064330.428.140252@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <74479E9D357149C884B52FBF2D6C1DBC@valtd>

Hi Patrick:

Yes, there is indeed a technology list.  To subscribe, send a blank message 
to:

blindtech-subscribe at yahoogroups.com

The traffic on the list can be high sometimes, but there are a lot of 
knowledgeable folks on the list who are always willing to help as best they 
can.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado 



From dricken at gmail.com  Tue Jan  5 20:10:02 2010
From: dricken at gmail.com (Kendrick Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 14:10:02 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Mock Trial
Message-ID: <9668861d1001051210u11de014bx8fdef28407958fa6@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

Looking for some tips on engaging the jury and moving about in the
courtroom.  Any feedback will be appreciated. I have done an appeal
courtroom setting and this is my first time working in a trial
courtroom setting.

-- 
Thanks, 2K

Being Blind isn't a right, it's a privilege!

****************************************
Kendrick R. Kennedy, BSBA

Juris Doctor Candidate, 2011
The University of Mississippi,
School of Law

P.O. Box 2006
University, MS 38677

Phone:(769) 218-0699
Cell   : (228) 424-4653
E-mail: dricken at gmail.com

=========================================
ESSENTIAL NOTICE
This message is confidential and for use by the addressee only. If you
are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose,
distribute, copy, print, or rely on this message. Please notify the
sender as soon as possible and then delete or otherwise destroy the
message and any copies thereof. No responsibility is accepted for
changes made to this message after it was sent nor for any loss or
damage from receipt or use.
========================================


From parnell at sccoast.net  Tue Jan  5 20:24:33 2010
From: parnell at sccoast.net (Parnell and Kim Diggs)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:24:33 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Mock Trial
References: <9668861d1001051210u11de014bx8fdef28407958fa6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2694007B9B02417B96F6F2EAF01AFC43@ownerbe272x6xz>

First of all, Kendrick, just be yourself.  Let me tell you a short story.

One time I took great measures in advance to familiarize myself with the 
courtroom, which featured a podium in front of the jury box.  I learned 
where this podium was and planned to start my opening statement from there. 
But when I got up to begin, I noticed that the podium had been moved. 
Opposing council maybe?  I didn't miss a beat.

In later appearances, I began using my cane to walk around because I am more 
comfortable with a cane.  Make sure you know where the jury is in relation 
to your table.  The judge and witnesses will speak so you can figure that 
one out.

Parnell

***********************************
Parnell and Kim Diggs
8845-B Chandler Dr.
Myrtle Beach, SC 29575
Home:  843-215-9056
Parnell office:  843-492-7411
Fax:  843-215-4928
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kendrick Kennedy" <dricken at gmail.com>
To: "NFB Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:10 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Mock Trial


> Hello All,
>
> Looking for some tips on engaging the jury and moving about in the
> courtroom.  Any feedback will be appreciated. I have done an appeal
> courtroom setting and this is my first time working in a trial
> courtroom setting.
>
> -- 
> Thanks, 2K
>
> Being Blind isn't a right, it's a privilege!
>
> ****************************************
> Kendrick R. Kennedy, BSBA
>
> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2011
> The University of Mississippi,
> School of Law
>
> P.O. Box 2006
> University, MS 38677
>
> Phone:(769) 218-0699
> Cell   : (228) 424-4653
> E-mail: dricken at gmail.com
>
> =========================================
> ESSENTIAL NOTICE
> This message is confidential and for use by the addressee only. If you
> are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose,
> distribute, copy, print, or rely on this message. Please notify the
> sender as soon as possible and then delete or otherwise destroy the
> message and any copies thereof. No responsibility is accepted for
> changes made to this message after it was sent nor for any loss or
> damage from receipt or use.
> ========================================
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/parnell%40sccoast.net


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2601 - Release Date: 01/05/10 
07:35:00



From parnell at sccoast.net  Tue Jan  5 21:20:44 2010
From: parnell at sccoast.net (Parnell and Kim Diggs)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:20:44 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Mock Trial
References: <9668861d1001051210u11de014bx8fdef28407958fa6@mail.gmail.com>
	<2694007B9B02417B96F6F2EAF01AFC43@ownerbe272x6xz>
Message-ID: <A7562E6982104E1E8E8C251C8AF97667@ownerbe272x6xz>

And Kendrick,

Don't spell "council" the way I did in this context.

Me
***********************************
Parnell and Kim Diggs
8845-B Chandler Dr.
Myrtle Beach, SC 29575
Home:  843-215-9056
Parnell office:  843-492-7411
Fax:  843-215-4928
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Parnell and Kim Diggs" <parnell at sccoast.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mock Trial


> First of all, Kendrick, just be yourself.  Let me tell you a short story.
>
> One time I took great measures in advance to familiarize myself with the
> courtroom, which featured a podium in front of the jury box.  I learned
> where this podium was and planned to start my opening statement from 
> there.
> But when I got up to begin, I noticed that the podium had been moved.
> Opposing council maybe?  I didn't miss a beat.
>
> In later appearances, I began using my cane to walk around because I am 
> more
> comfortable with a cane.  Make sure you know where the jury is in relation
> to your table.  The judge and witnesses will speak so you can figure that
> one out.
>
> Parnell
>
> ***********************************
> Parnell and Kim Diggs
> 8845-B Chandler Dr.
> Myrtle Beach, SC 29575
> Home:  843-215-9056
> Parnell office:  843-492-7411
> Fax:  843-215-4928
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kendrick Kennedy" <dricken at gmail.com>
> To: "NFB Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:10 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Mock Trial
>
>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> Looking for some tips on engaging the jury and moving about in the
>> courtroom.  Any feedback will be appreciated. I have done an appeal
>> courtroom setting and this is my first time working in a trial
>> courtroom setting.
>>
>> -- 
>> Thanks, 2K
>>
>> Being Blind isn't a right, it's a privilege!
>>
>> ****************************************
>> Kendrick R. Kennedy, BSBA
>>
>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2011
>> The University of Mississippi,
>> School of Law
>>
>> P.O. Box 2006
>> University, MS 38677
>>
>> Phone:(769) 218-0699
>> Cell   : (228) 424-4653
>> E-mail: dricken at gmail.com
>>
>> =========================================
>> ESSENTIAL NOTICE
>> This message is confidential and for use by the addressee only. If you
>> are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose,
>> distribute, copy, print, or rely on this message. Please notify the
>> sender as soon as possible and then delete or otherwise destroy the
>> message and any copies thereof. No responsibility is accepted for
>> changes made to this message after it was sent nor for any loss or
>> damage from receipt or use.
>> ========================================
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/parnell%40sccoast.net
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2601 - Release Date: 
> 01/05/10
> 07:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/parnell%40sccoast.net


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.126/2601 - Release Date: 01/05/10 
07:35:00



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Tue Jan  5 21:51:51 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:51:51 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Mock Trial
In-Reply-To: <9668861d1001051210u11de014bx8fdef28407958fa6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FB385FE2F3E6453BAA66C242059E998C@Rufus>

The last time I competed in mock trial tournaments was in high school, but
one thing I took from those tournaments to the college debate circuit was
the 3-point walk.  After you've surveyed the space in which you have to
speak, you develop something like a triangle to help you shift from one
point to the next in your speech.  You can adjust your standing position
according to emphasis points in your address.  Very rarely do people walk
continuously while speaking, and I would think this would be the same for
attorneys speaking to juries.  I think the greater concern is hand gestures
and facial expressions.  My debate coach and I spent hours choreographing
some of my speeches until the movements became more natural.  It may not be
the case for everyone else, but I found that losing my vision meant placing
less importance on complementing my conversations with animation.  At any
rate, I'm no attorney, but I've done more than my share of public speaking.
It seems to me that a lot of your delivery rests more on your voice
inflection than on your choice of physical presentation.  Best of luck to
you.

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kendrick Kennedy
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:10 PM
To: NFB Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] Mock Trial

Hello All,

Looking for some tips on engaging the jury and moving about in the
courtroom.  Any feedback will be appreciated. I have done an appeal
courtroom setting and this is my first time working in a trial
courtroom setting.

-- 
Thanks, 2K

Being Blind isn't a right, it's a privilege!

****************************************
Kendrick R. Kennedy, BSBA

Juris Doctor Candidate, 2011
The University of Mississippi,
School of Law

P.O. Box 2006
University, MS 38677

Phone:(769) 218-0699
Cell   : (228) 424-4653
E-mail: dricken at gmail.com

=========================================
ESSENTIAL NOTICE
This message is confidential and for use by the addressee only. If you
are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose,
distribute, copy, print, or rely on this message. Please notify the
sender as soon as possible and then delete or otherwise destroy the
message and any copies thereof. No responsibility is accepted for
changes made to this message after it was sent nor for any loss or
damage from receipt or use.
========================================

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz
co%40gmail.com
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of 
virus signature database 4746 (20100105) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4746 (20100105) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From fwlopez at comcast.net  Tue Jan  5 22:46:39 2010
From: fwlopez at comcast.net (Fred Wright Lopez)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 14:46:39 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Mock Trial
In-Reply-To: <9668861d1001051210u11de014bx8fdef28407958fa6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9668861d1001051210u11de014bx8fdef28407958fa6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0050E6F4-BAC0-4E33-B560-A00FF35C6E8A@comcast.net>

Ms Kennedy
I am recently retired Federal government attorney.   In my career I  
did a fair amount of trail work, almost all criminal prosecution in  
Federal Court.  I attended the DOJ Trial Advocacy institute and  
instructed at the Federal Law Enforcement Center on criminal law and  
trial preparationI and testimony for Federal agents and forensic  
experts.   I did not lose my vision until my late forties which caused  
my early retirement as I no longer met the physical qualifications of  
my law enforcement agency.   I know do pro bono civl advocacy work in  
Federal Court and with Federal Agencies as well as Regional Centers  
for the Developmentally Disabled.    I mention this background to  
indicate that my approach to trial advocacy and jury trials has not  
changed due to my loss of vision.

Moving About the Court (YOU DON'T)

My comments herein are limited to Federal Courts and agencies.   In  
Federal Court attorneys are NOT allowed to move about the court room.   
If you need to approach the witness to ask the Judge for permission.   
If you want to approach the jury you ask for permission.   If you want  
to do anything, you better ask the Judge for permission.   In most  
instances, you will have a pre trial conference with the Curt and you  
should dvise the Court of any special needs such as equipment,   
lighting and handeling physical evidence.   In summary, in Federal  
Court you are pretty much stuck at the LECTERN (Never call it a  
podium!).   For the vision impaired, I find these rules to equalize or  
level the playing field.

Opening and Closing Statements

Never Over Promise your case in your Opening Statement.  The jury will  
remember what you said you will prove and if they do not rest assured  
that opposing counsel if they are good will remember and use any  
failure on your part to deliver as an argument with the jury.

Keep your Opening Simply.   In criminal cases it All About the  
Story.   Good Prosecutors tell the sory of what happened not in a  
legaistic language that the jury has difficulty understanding but in  
simple words that people speak daily.  Your opening is  Who What When  
Where and HOw.  This is combined with a few legalistic phrases like:   
The evidence will show that Mr. X  willfully / intentionally (dpending  
on legal standard) did XYZ.   You need to grab the jury attention and  
hold it not bore them with legalistic standards or jargon that makes  
them fall asleep.

Your closing argument is a Road Map of where you started and how the  
evidence you presented leads to the conclusion that Mr. X is guilty.  
Remind the jury of your Opening Argument and what you told them (Never  
you the phrse 'I promsied you ...").   If your case is complex, the  
Closing Argument is your opportunity to tie everything together, the  
witnesses, the evidence and the charges.


Civil Jury Trials

For the most part the rules above also apply in Civil Trials.  The  
idifferences are that in a Civil trial the court gives you the  
attorney more lattitude to aruge and sometimes move about BUT NOT  
ALWAYS.   In a Criminal Case, the Defense Attorney can sit back, after  
all its the burden of the prosecutor to prove beyond a reasonable  
doubt that Mr. X is guilty.  All teh Defense nees to say is that you  
failed to meet your burden of proof an ask fora directed verdict.  In  
Civil cases each attorney has to forcefully argue her case and can not  
sit back.

Some Techniques to Consider

First criminal trial I ever did as a prosecutor was will a very  
attractive U.S. Attorney as lead.  When she showed up for trial she  
was dressed down with little make up, looking very plain.  She  
explained to me later that she did this because she learned the hard  
way that she wanted the jury to focus on the Defendant and not her  
looks.   If you are the Defense, you dress up and have your client  
always dressed up.   Always be respectful of the Judge, opposing  
cousnel and the Defendant if there is one.  Remember the jury is  
always watching you.  In crimal cases, the Government is always held  
by the jury and the Court to a higher standard.

As a visually impaired trail attorney, I make it a point to speak with  
the Clerk and Judge before hand.  advise them of my vision limitations  
and what accomodations I will need.  I have never found a "NO" to any  
of my requests.  The the contrary, I find the court and Judges to go  
out of thei way to assist e.  Even opposing counsels have been  
cooperative.

Finally, enjoy the experience and learn from it,  We all make mistakes  
but the key is to learn form these mistakes and do better.

Good Luck:

Fred W. Lopez





n Jan 5, 2010, at 12:10 PM, Kendrick Kennedy wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> Looking for some tips on engaging the jury and moving about in the
> courtroom.  Any feedback will be appreciated. I have done an appeal
> courtroom setting and this is my first time working in a trial
> courtroom setting.
>
> -- 
> Thanks, 2K
>
> Being Blind isn't a right, it's a privilege!
>
> ****************************************
> Kendrick R. Kennedy, BSBA
>
> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2011
> The University of Mississippi,
> School of Law
>
> P.O. Box 2006
> University, MS 38677
>
> Phone:(769) 218-0699
> Cell   : (228) 424-4653
> E-mail: dricken at gmail.com
>
> =========================================
> ESSENTIAL NOTICE
> This message is confidential and for use by the addressee only. If you
> are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose,
> distribute, copy, print, or rely on this message. Please notify the
> sender as soon as possible and then delete or otherwise destroy the
> message and any copies thereof. No responsibility is accepted for
> changes made to this message after it was sent nor for any loss or
> damage from receipt or use.
> ========================================
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
> for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Wed Jan  6 03:26:57 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 22:26:57 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Telecommunications Accessibility
Message-ID: <84B80B60D481457E9B75197371FE003C@Rufus>

Hello,

Can someone tell me what statute spells out equal accessibility for
telecommunication providers?  I vaguely remember someone claiming they were
going to take their cell phone carrier to court for not allowing them to
cancel their contract on account of the phone not being accessible.  I doubt
the case ever got far, but at any rate, I can't remember what law they were
referencing or if it was some complaint they were taking to the FCC rather
than court.   Thanks for any information.

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4746 (20100105) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From b75205 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  7 02:28:20 2010
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 20:28:20 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] question
In-Reply-To: <D01F546F48964F58A22F7CC29BA21C74@russ>
References: <005c01ca87ce$8e6be990$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
	<bd5993380912301159w74470a84y12ad386bcb780838@mail.gmail.com>
	<D01F546F48964F58A22F7CC29BA21C74@russ>
Message-ID: <fe5b78281001061828v70e28515hcd7d6c91f6254920@mail.gmail.com>

Adobe Acrobat Standard or Professional has built in OCR for Acrobat
documents.

James Pepper

On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. <
rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com> wrote:

> PDF converter will do it.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Will May
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:59 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question
>
> I don't think OCR can work on PDF without printing out and flatbedding....
>
> Do you need something read to you; Send it, and I will send you an MP3
> of the audible verbatim transcription....Will
>
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:00 AM, RJ Sandefur
> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Does any one know of an OCR program for PDFS which have been scaned? My
> email address is: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
> > RJ
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> >
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmai
> l.com
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi
> rm.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>

From timandvickie at hotmail.com  Thu Jan  7 03:23:40 2010
From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 03:23:40 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] question
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78281001061828v70e28515hcd7d6c91f6254920@mail.gmail.com>
References: <005c01ca87ce$8e6be990$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>,
	<bd5993380912301159w74470a84y12ad386bcb780838@mail.gmail.com>,
	<D01F546F48964F58A22F7CC29BA21C74@russ>,
	<fe5b78281001061828v70e28515hcd7d6c91f6254920@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY139-W18C0141F91E7A596583C88CF710@phx.gbl>


yeah, but the OCR the have built in can be very buggy. I used to use it at my old job. I had been tasked tot ype in thousands of pages of army regulationsf rom the 40's and I was doing OCR and copying instead of typing it all like they had originally told me to, and I would have to do alot of teaking on the text.
 
> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 20:28:20 -0600
> From: b75205 at gmail.com
> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question
> 
> Adobe Acrobat Standard or Professional has built in OCR for Acrobat
> documents.
> 
> James Pepper
> 
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. <
> rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com> wrote:
> 
> > PDF converter will do it.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> > Behalf Of Will May
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:59 AM
> > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question
> >
> > I don't think OCR can work on PDF without printing out and flatbedding....
> >
> > Do you need something read to you; Send it, and I will send you an MP3
> > of the audible verbatim transcription....Will
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:00 AM, RJ Sandefur
> > <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Does any one know of an OCR program for PDFS which have been scaned? My
> > email address is: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
> > > RJ
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > blindlaw mailing list
> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindlaw:
> > >
> >
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmai
> > l.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindlaw:
> >
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi
> > rm.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindlaw:
> >
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
> >
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/

From b75205 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  7 03:50:12 2010
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 21:50:12 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] question
In-Reply-To: <BAY139-W18C0141F91E7A596583C88CF710@phx.gbl>
References: <005c01ca87ce$8e6be990$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
	<bd5993380912301159w74470a84y12ad386bcb780838@mail.gmail.com>
	<D01F546F48964F58A22F7CC29BA21C74@russ>
	<fe5b78281001061828v70e28515hcd7d6c91f6254920@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY139-W18C0141F91E7A596583C88CF710@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <fe5b78281001061950s4ada43a9u2a98c6a77e02aa3a@mail.gmail.com>

I know.  It is a mess!  But if you have acrobat it's still worth a try.

James

On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Tim Shaw <timandvickie at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> yeah, but the OCR the have built in can be very buggy. I used to use it at
> my old job. I had been tasked tot ype in thousands of pages of army
> regulationsf rom the 40's and I was doing OCR and copying instead of typing
> it all like they had originally told me to, and I would have to do alot of
> teaking on the text.
>
> > Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 20:28:20 -0600
> > From: b75205 at gmail.com
> > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question
>  >
> > Adobe Acrobat Standard or Professional has built in OCR for Acrobat
> > documents.
> >
> > James Pepper
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. <
> > rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com> wrote:
> >
> > > PDF converter will do it.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> > > Behalf Of Will May
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:59 AM
> > > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question
> > >
> > > I don't think OCR can work on PDF without printing out and
> flatbedding....
> > >
> > > Do you need something read to you; Send it, and I will send you an MP3
> > > of the audible verbatim transcription....Will
> > >
> > > On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:00 AM, RJ Sandefur
> > > <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Does any one know of an OCR program for PDFS which have been scaned?
> My
> > > email address is: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
> > > > RJ
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > blindlaw mailing list
> > > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > blindlaw:
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmai
> > > l.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > blindlaw mailing list
> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > blindlaw:
> > >
> > >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi
> > > rm.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > blindlaw mailing list
> > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > blindlaw:
> > >
> > >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/
>  _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>

From bandbjacobs at verizon.net  Thu Jan  7 19:11:18 2010
From: bandbjacobs at verizon.net (The Jacobs Family)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 13:11:18 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Cat Systems with Realtime Capability...
Message-ID: <auto-000134330682@mailfront1.g2host.com>



Is there anyone out there familiar with something called "Cat 
Systems" with "Realtime" capability?  I've done a "Google" search and 
found that "Realtime" capability is merely software used by Court 
Reporters.  I am interested in applying for a Court Reporter position 
and would like to know if this system is used by bline folks?  Is 
this accessible or inaccessible to the Blind?  Or, can one use a 
notetaker and transcribe that way by connecting it to a Computer and 
printing transcript materials?

If anyone has any information at all for me, I can be reached at:

Phone: 410-455-5311
Email: <mailto:bandbjacobs at verizon.net>bandbjacobs at verizon.net

Have a great day and hope to hear from someone very soon?

Bern

From cdrobles693 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  7 11:17:36 2010
From: cdrobles693 at gmail.com (Chela Robles)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 05:17:36 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
Message-ID: <auto-000134106866@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the 
Social Security Administration now offers new ways to receive 
communications from them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on 
a CD-ROM, or regular print with a follow-up phone call to read the 
information. The braille and CD options start on April 15. Email is 
not an included option, but you can call a phone number to request a 
format not listed.
Please visit this link for more information on how to change from 
printed mail to another method.
<http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/

There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For 
Special Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I 
clicked the link, it said:

We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your 
request at this time.

This service is available during the following hours (Eastern Time):

Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM

If you need immediate assistance,

you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
1-800-772-1213

If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY number:
1-800-325-0778
If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get 
directions and a map to your local Social Security office by visiting 
link on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
----------------
"If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows, two 
days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing, 
girl you better look out, because everyone will know!"
----------------
Chela Robles
E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
MSNWindowsLive Messenger: 
<mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
Skype: jazzytrumpet

From t.l.cantrell at comcast.net  Fri Jan  8 03:45:00 2010
From: t.l.cantrell at comcast.net (tammy cantrell)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 21:45:00 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
References: <auto-000134106866@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <019b01ca9014$f514b0c0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>

Hello!
I just entered on this link and was told page not found.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chela Robles (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)" 
<cdrobles693 at gmail.com>
To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:17 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,not 
Email


> Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the Social 
> Security Administration now offers new ways to receive communications from 
> them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on a CD-ROM, or regular 
> print with a follow-up phone call to read the information. The braille and 
> CD options start on April 15. Email is not an included option, but you can 
> call a phone number to request a format not listed.
> Please visit this link for more information on how to change from printed 
> mail to another method.
> <http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/
>
> There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For Special 
> Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I clicked the 
> link, it said:
>
> We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your request at 
> this time.
>
> This service is available during the following hours (Eastern Time):
>
> Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
> Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
> Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
> Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>
> If you need immediate assistance,
>
> you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
> 1-800-772-1213
>
> If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY number:
> 1-800-325-0778
> If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get 
> directions and a map to your local Social Security office by visiting link 
> on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
> ----------------
> "If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows, two 
> days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing, girl you 
> better look out, because everyone will know!"
> ----------------
> Chela Robles
> E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
> MSNWindowsLive Messenger: 
> <mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
> Skype: jazzytrumpet
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/t.l.cantrell%40comcast.net 



From fwlopez at comcast.net  Fri Jan  8 04:30:51 2010
From: fwlopez at comcast.net (Fred Wright Lopez)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 20:30:51 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
In-Reply-To: <auto-000134106866@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000134106866@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <C4251A3D-4782-48AC-9920-509E3C7C33F3@comcast.net>

I received from the Social Security Administration the notification described in Chela Robles email (via David Andrews).  The SSA notice provided the options described in Ms Roble's email.  Unfortunately, there was NO LARGE PRINT OPTION OFFERED.    Although legally blind, I and I would suggest many others prefer to receive large print SSA Notices.   I called teh SSSA number provided int heir correspondence and the SSA Representative acknowledged the lack of this option, advised that their office had received other calls also pointing out this oversight.  The SSA Representative after checking with her supervisor stated she could go into the system and make a special entry indicating my desire for large print SSA notices.   Perhaps others on this list with more knowledge of the ACB vs SSA litigation can shed some light on this issue.

Fred Wright Lopez

On Jan 7, 2010, at 3:17 AM, Chela Robles (by way of David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>) wrote:

> Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the Social Security Administration now offers new ways to receive communications from them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on a CD-ROM, or regular print with a follow-up phone call to read the information. The braille and CD options start on April 15. Email is not an included option, but you can call a phone number to request a format not listed.
> Please visit this link for more information on how to change from printed mail to another method.
> <http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/
> 
> There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For Special Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I clicked the link, it said:
> 
> We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your request at this time.
> 
> This service is available during the following hours (Eastern Time):
> 
> Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
> Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
> Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
> Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
> 
> If you need immediate assistance,
> 
> you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
> 1-800-772-1213
> 
> If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY number:
> 1-800-325-0778
> If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get directions and a map to your local Social Security office by visiting link on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
> ----------------
> "If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows, two days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing, girl you better look out, because everyone will know!"
> ----------------
> Chela Robles
> E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
> MSNWindowsLive Messenger: <mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
> Skype: jazzytrumpet
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jan  8 08:36:35 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 00:36:35 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
In-Reply-To: <019b01ca9014$f514b0c0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
References: <auto-000134106866@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<019b01ca9014$f514b0c0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
Message-ID: <6311E57FB1EF4DF68946DEE5B8091224@spike>

    actually this is old news as this settlement was entered into several 
months ago.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "tammy cantrell" <t.l.cantrell at comcast.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,not 
Email


> Hello!
> I just entered on this link and was told page not found.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chela Robles (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)" 
> <cdrobles693 at gmail.com>
> To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:17 AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,not 
> Email
>
>
>> Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the Social 
>> Security Administration now offers new ways to receive communications 
>> from them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on a CD-ROM, or 
>> regular print with a follow-up phone call to read the information. The 
>> braille and CD options start on April 15. Email is not an included 
>> option, but you can call a phone number to request a format not listed.
>> Please visit this link for more information on how to change from printed 
>> mail to another method.
>> <http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/
>>
>> There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For Special 
>> Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I clicked the 
>> link, it said:
>>
>> We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your request at 
>> this time.
>>
>> This service is available during the following hours (Eastern Time):
>>
>> Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>> Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
>> Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
>> Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>>
>> If you need immediate assistance,
>>
>> you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
>> 1-800-772-1213
>>
>> If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY number:
>> 1-800-325-0778
>> If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get 
>> directions and a map to your local Social Security office by visiting 
>> link on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
>> ----------------
>> "If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows, two 
>> days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing, girl 
>> you better look out, because everyone will know!"
>> ----------------
>> Chela Robles
>> E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
>> MSNWindowsLive Messenger: 
>> <mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
>> Skype: jazzytrumpet
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/t.l.cantrell%40comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Fri Jan  8 13:21:28 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 08:21:28 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
In-Reply-To: <6311E57FB1EF4DF68946DEE5B8091224@spike>
References: <auto-000134106866@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<019b01ca9014$f514b0c0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
	<6311E57FB1EF4DF68946DEE5B8091224@spike>
Message-ID: <58AE1E109B1B4889BE91B0A2967CF2C2@StevePC>

SSA is the most screwed-up organization I have ever had the misfortune of 
dealing with.

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 3:36 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,not 
Email


>    actually this is old news as this settlement was entered into several
> months ago.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "tammy cantrell" <t.l.cantrell at comcast.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 7:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your 
> choice,not
> Email
>
>
>> Hello!
>> I just entered on this link and was told page not found.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Chela Robles (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)"
>> <cdrobles693 at gmail.com>
>> To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:17 AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,not
>> Email
>>
>>
>>> Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the Social
>>> Security Administration now offers new ways to receive communications
>>> from them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on a CD-ROM, or
>>> regular print with a follow-up phone call to read the information. The
>>> braille and CD options start on April 15. Email is not an included
>>> option, but you can call a phone number to request a format not listed.
>>> Please visit this link for more information on how to change from 
>>> printed
>>> mail to another method.
>>> <http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/
>>>
>>> There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For Special
>>> Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I clicked the
>>> link, it said:
>>>
>>> We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your request 
>>> at
>>> this time.
>>>
>>> This service is available during the following hours (Eastern Time):
>>>
>>> Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>>> Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
>>> Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
>>> Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>>>
>>> If you need immediate assistance,
>>>
>>> you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
>>> 1-800-772-1213
>>>
>>> If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY number:
>>> 1-800-325-0778
>>> If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get
>>> directions and a map to your local Social Security office by visiting
>>> link on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
>>> ----------------
>>> "If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows, two
>>> days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing, girl
>>> you better look out, because everyone will know!"
>>> ----------------
>>> Chela Robles
>>> E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
>>> MSNWindowsLive Messenger:
>>> <mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
>>> Skype: jazzytrumpet
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/t.l.cantrell%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.130/2607 - Release Date: 01/08/10 
07:35:00



From stiehm.law at juno.com  Fri Jan  8 14:45:15 2010
From: stiehm.law at juno.com (stiehm.law)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:45:15 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
Message-ID: <20100108.064540.19009.164733@mailpop01.vgs.untd.com>

I tried it and it does seem to be working now.
 
Patrick H. Stiehm
Stiehm Law Office
Alexandria, VA 22309
703-360-1089 (Voice)
703-935-8266 (Fax)

On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 21:45:00 -0600 "tammy cantrell"
<t.l.cantrell at comcast.net> writes:
> Hello!
> I just entered on this link and was told page not found.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chela Robles (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)" 
> <cdrobles693 at gmail.com>
> To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:17 AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your 
> choice,not 
> Email
> 
> 
> > Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the 
> Social 
> > Security Administration now offers new ways to receive 
> communications from 
> > them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on a CD-ROM, or 
> regular 
> > print with a follow-up phone call to read the information. The 
> braille and 
> > CD options start on April 15. Email is not an included option, but 
> you can 
> > call a phone number to request a format not listed.
> > Please visit this link for more information on how to change from 
> printed 
> > mail to another method.
> > 
>
<http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/not
ices/
> >
> > There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For 
> Special 
> > Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I clicked 
> the 
> > link, it said:
> >
> > We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your 
> request at 
> > this time.
> >
> > This service is available during the following hours (Eastern 
> Time):
> >
> > Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
> > Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
> > Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
> > Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
> >
> > If you need immediate assistance,
> >
> > you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
> > 1-800-772-1213
> >
> > If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY 
> number:
> > 1-800-325-0778
> > If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get 
> 
> > directions and a map to your local Social Security office by 
> visiting link 
> > on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
> > ----------------
> > "If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows, 
> two 
> > days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing, 
> girl you 
> > better look out, because everyone will know!"
> > ----------------
> > Chela Robles
> > E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
> > MSNWindowsLive Messenger: 
> > <mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
> > Skype: jazzytrumpet
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for 
> > blindlaw:
> > 
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/t.l.cantrell%40
comcast.net 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju
no.com
> 
 
____________________________________________________________
Nutrition
Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=Rl1uJVu5j8pAs4qpY_740QAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA=


From t.l.cantrell at comcast.net  Fri Jan  8 15:50:55 2010
From: t.l.cantrell at comcast.net (tammy cantrell)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:50:55 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
References: <20100108.064540.19009.164733@mailpop01.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <003201ca907a$5d96e360$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>

Great!
I'll check it out.
Thanks!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "stiehm.law" <stiehm.law at juno.com>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,not 
Email


>I tried it and it does seem to be working now.
>
> Patrick H. Stiehm
> Stiehm Law Office
> Alexandria, VA 22309
> 703-360-1089 (Voice)
> 703-935-8266 (Fax)
>
> On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 21:45:00 -0600 "tammy cantrell"
> <t.l.cantrell at comcast.net> writes:
>> Hello!
>> I just entered on this link and was told page not found.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Chela Robles (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)"
>> <cdrobles693 at gmail.com>
>> To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:17 AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your
>> choice,not
>> Email
>>
>>
>> > Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the
>> Social
>> > Security Administration now offers new ways to receive
>> communications from
>> > them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on a CD-ROM, or
>> regular
>> > print with a follow-up phone call to read the information. The
>> braille and
>> > CD options start on April 15. Email is not an included option, but
>> you can
>> > call a phone number to request a format not listed.
>> > Please visit this link for more information on how to change from
>> printed
>> > mail to another method.
>> >
>>
> <http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/not
> ices/
>> >
>> > There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For
>> Special
>> > Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I clicked
>> the
>> > link, it said:
>> >
>> > We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your
>> request at
>> > this time.
>> >
>> > This service is available during the following hours (Eastern
>> Time):
>> >
>> > Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>> > Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
>> > Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
>> > Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>> >
>> > If you need immediate assistance,
>> >
>> > you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
>> > 1-800-772-1213
>> >
>> > If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY
>> number:
>> > 1-800-325-0778
>> > If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get
>>
>> > directions and a map to your local Social Security office by
>> visiting link
>> > on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
>> > ----------------
>> > "If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows,
>> two
>> > days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing,
>> girl you
>> > better look out, because everyone will know!"
>> > ----------------
>> > Chela Robles
>> > E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
>> > MSNWindowsLive Messenger:
>> > <mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
>> > Skype: jazzytrumpet
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindlaw mailing list
>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> > blindlaw:
>> >
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/t.l.cantrell%40
> comcast.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju
> no.com
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Nutrition
> Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=Rl1uJVu5j8pAs4qpY_740QAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA=
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/t.l.cantrell%40comcast.net 



From mhanson at winternet.com  Fri Jan  8 15:58:37 2010
From: mhanson at winternet.com (Michael O. Hanson)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:58:37 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
References: <20100108.064540.19009.164733@mailpop01.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <112417C376EB429C8B4FA1D45938F0FB@hp048378e4c43a>

I just tried it with no luck.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "stiehm.law" <stiehm.law at juno.com>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,not 
Email


>I tried it and it does seem to be working now.
>
> Patrick H. Stiehm
> Stiehm Law Office
> Alexandria, VA 22309
> 703-360-1089 (Voice)
> 703-935-8266 (Fax)
>
> On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 21:45:00 -0600 "tammy cantrell"
> <t.l.cantrell at comcast.net> writes:
>> Hello!
>> I just entered on this link and was told page not found.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Chela Robles (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)"
>> <cdrobles693 at gmail.com>
>> To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:17 AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your
>> choice,not
>> Email
>>
>>
>> > Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the
>> Social
>> > Security Administration now offers new ways to receive
>> communications from
>> > them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on a CD-ROM, or
>> regular
>> > print with a follow-up phone call to read the information. The
>> braille and
>> > CD options start on April 15. Email is not an included option, but
>> you can
>> > call a phone number to request a format not listed.
>> > Please visit this link for more information on how to change from
>> printed
>> > mail to another method.
>> >
>>
> <http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/not
> ices/
>> >
>> > There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For
>> Special
>> > Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I clicked
>> the
>> > link, it said:
>> >
>> > We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your
>> request at
>> > this time.
>> >
>> > This service is available during the following hours (Eastern
>> Time):
>> >
>> > Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>> > Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
>> > Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
>> > Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>> >
>> > If you need immediate assistance,
>> >
>> > you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
>> > 1-800-772-1213
>> >
>> > If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY
>> number:
>> > 1-800-325-0778
>> > If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get
>>
>> > directions and a map to your local Social Security office by
>> visiting link
>> > on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
>> > ----------------
>> > "If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows,
>> two
>> > days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing,
>> girl you
>> > better look out, because everyone will know!"
>> > ----------------
>> > Chela Robles
>> > E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
>> > MSNWindowsLive Messenger:
>> > <mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
>> > Skype: jazzytrumpet
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindlaw mailing list
>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> > blindlaw:
>> >
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/t.l.cantrell%40
> comcast.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju
> no.com
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Nutrition
> Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=Rl1uJVu5j8pAs4qpY_740QAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA=
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mhanson%40winternet.com
> 




From lberger at sfmslaw.com  Fri Jan  8 19:17:55 2010
From: lberger at sfmslaw.com (Lawrence D. Berger)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 14:17:55 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Telecommunications Accessibility
Message-ID: <F305B6954DB0DB4AAFB4B70A876A4C250A949E6D0E@sfms-mail2act.sfms.loc>

Several days ago, there was an inquiry about "telecommunications accessibility," and specifically cell phones.  I know nothing about it myself, but have a friend who is knowledgeable about the issue for people with hearing disabilities, and he pointed me to this web-site

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/dro/section255.html

which turns out to be an FCC web-site relating to Section 255 of the Communications Act which provides that "A provider of telecommunications service shall ensure that the service is accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities, if readily achievable."  As my friend added, the question of what exactly this means "would make a good law review article," but the web-site looks like a good place to start.

Larry Berger
Shepherd, Finkelman, Miller & Shah, LLP
mailto:lberger at sfmslaw.com
(610) 891-9880     phone
(610) 891-9883     fax




From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com  Sat Jan  9 02:01:22 2010
From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne)
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:01:22 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
In-Reply-To: <58AE1E109B1B4889BE91B0A2967CF2C2@StevePC>
References: <auto-000134106866@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<019b01ca9014$f514b0c0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
	<6311E57FB1EF4DF68946DEE5B8091224@spike>
	<58AE1E109B1B4889BE91B0A2967CF2C2@StevePC>
Message-ID: <20100109020122.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>

Steve: 
You've led a charmed life! Move to New York! I'd name some, but the list would be too long! 
Ray


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Date: Friday, Jan 8, 2010 8:34:19
Subject: Re: [bllaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice, not Email

>
>
> SSA is the most screwed-up organization I have ever had the misfortune of 
> dealing with.
> 
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 3:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [bllaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choiceean 
> Email
> 
> 
> >    actually this is old news as this settlement was entered into several
> > months ago.
> > Chuck
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "tammy cantrell" <t.l.cantrell at comcast.net>
> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 7:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: [bllaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your 
> > choiceean
> > Email
> >
> >
> >ar Hello!
> >ar I just entered on this link and was told page not found.
> >ar ----- Original Message ----- 
> >ar From: "Chela Robles (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)"
> >ar <cdrobles693 at gmail.com>
> >ar To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
> >ar Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:17 AM
> >ar Subject: [bllaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choiceean
> >ar Email
> >ar
> >ar
> >>> Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the Social
> >>> Security Administration now offers new ways to receive communications
> >>> from them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on a CD-ROM, or
> >>> regular print with a follow-up phone call to read the information. The
> >>> braille and CD options start on April 15. Email is not an included
> >>> option, but you can call a phone number to request a format not listed.
> >>> Please visit this link for more information on how to change from 
> >>> printed
> >>> mail to another method.
> >>> <http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/
> >>>
> >>> There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For Special
> >>> Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I clicked the
> >>> link, it said:
> >>>
> >>> We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your request 
> >>> at
> >>> this time.
> >>>
> >>> This service is available during the following hours (Eastern Time):
> >>>
> >>> Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM �� 2:00 AM
> >>> Saturday: 5:00 AM �� 11:00 PM
> >>> Sunday: 7:00 AM �� 11: PM
> >>> Holidays: 3:00 AM �� 2:00 AM
> >>>
> >>> If you need immediate assistance,
> >>>
> >>> you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM �� 7:00 PM at:
> >>> 1-800-772-1213
> >>>
> >>> If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY number:
> >>> 1-800-325-0778
> >>> If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get
> >>> directions and a map to your local Social Security office by visiting
> >>> link on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
> >>> ----------------
> >>> "If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows, two
> >>> days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing, girl
> >>> you better look out, because everyone will know!"
> >>> ----------------
> >>> Chela Robles
> >>> E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
> >>> MSNWindowsLive Messenger:
> >>> <mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
> >>> Skype: jazzytrumpet
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> bllaw mailing list
> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> bllaw:
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/t.l.cantrell%40comcast.net
> >ar
> >ar
> >ar _______________________________________________
> >ar bllaw mailing list
> >ar blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> >ar http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >ar To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >ar bllaw:
> >ar http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > bllaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> > bllaw:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG �� www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.130/2607 �� Release Date: 01/08/10 
> 07:35:00
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> bllaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com


From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Sat Jan  9 22:18:03 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 17:18:03 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,
	not Email
In-Reply-To: <20100109020122.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>
References: <auto-000134106866@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<019b01ca9014$f514b0c0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
	<6311E57FB1EF4DF68946DEE5B8091224@spike>
	<58AE1E109B1B4889BE91B0A2967CF2C2@StevePC>
	<20100109020122.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <F5CC22B86D044F03AA2CA3A4C4AE71F8@StevePC>

Yeah.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ray wayne" <rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,not 
Email


> Steve:
> You've led a charmed life! Move to New York! I'd name some, but the list 
> would be too long!
> Ray
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Friday, Jan 8, 2010 8:34:19
> Subject: Re: [bllaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice, not 
> Email
>
>>
>>
>> SSA is the most screwed-up organization I have ever had the misfortune of
>> dealing with.
>>
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 3:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: [bllaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choiceean
>> Email
>>
>>
>> >    actually this is old news as this settlement was entered into 
>> > several
>> > months ago.
>> > Chuck
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: "tammy cantrell" <t.l.cantrell at comcast.net>
>> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 7:45 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [bllaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your
>> > choiceean
>> > Email
>> >
>> >
>> >ar Hello!
>> >ar I just entered on this link and was told page not found.
>> >ar ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >ar From: "Chela Robles (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)"
>> >ar <cdrobles693 at gmail.com>
>> >ar To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>> >ar Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:17 AM
>> >ar Subject: [bllaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choiceean
>> >ar Email
>> >ar
>> >ar
>> >>> Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the 
>> >>> Social
>> >>> Security Administration now offers new ways to receive communications
>> >>> from them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word on a CD-ROM, or
>> >>> regular print with a follow-up phone call to read the information. 
>> >>> The
>> >>> braille and CD options start on April 15. Email is not an included
>> >>> option, but you can call a phone number to request a format not 
>> >>> listed.
>> >>> Please visit this link for more information on how to change from
>> >>> printed
>> >>> mail to another method.
>> >>> <http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/
>> >>>
>> >>> There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For 
>> >>> Special
>> >>> Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I clicked 
>> >>> the
>> >>> link, it said:
>> >>>
>> >>> We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your 
>> >>> request
>> >>> at
>> >>> this time.
>> >>>
>> >>> This service is available during the following hours (Eastern Time):
>> >>>
>> >>> Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>> >>> Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
>> >>> Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
>> >>> Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>> >>>
>> >>> If you need immediate assistance,
>> >>>
>> >>> you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
>> >>> 1-800-772-1213
>> >>>
>> >>> If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY number:
>> >>> 1-800-325-0778
>> >>> If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get
>> >>> directions and a map to your local Social Security office by visiting
>> >>> link on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
>> >>> ----------------
>> >>> "If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows, two
>> >>> days, only you know, and more than three days without practicing, 
>> >>> girl
>> >>> you better look out, because everyone will know!"
>> >>> ----------------
>> >>> Chela Robles
>> >>> E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
>> >>> MSNWindowsLive Messenger:
>> >>> <mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
>> >>> Skype: jazzytrumpet
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> bllaw mailing list
>> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>> bllaw:
>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/t.l.cantrell%40comcast.net
>> >ar
>> >ar
>> >ar _______________________________________________
>> >ar bllaw mailing list
>> >ar blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> >ar http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> >ar To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >ar bllaw:
>> >ar 
>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > bllaw mailing list
>> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > bllaw:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.130/2607 - Release Date: 
>> 01/08/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bllaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> bllaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.130/2607 - Release Date: 01/08/10 
07:35:00



From MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com  Sat Jan  9 08:43:29 2010
From: MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com (Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 03:43:29 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
Message-ID: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>

please read and sign
      http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973/  
      Quick  

From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 10 08:07:39 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 00:07:39 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>
Message-ID: <C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>

Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have little 
if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a system 
of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of 
Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a consultant 
on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While consumers 
definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of their 
choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other legislation 
will not get rewritten using this format.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser" 
<MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] petition


> please read and sign
> 
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973/
>      Quick
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From mdubin at pobox.com  Sun Jan 10 11:26:07 2010
From: mdubin at pobox.com (Marc Dubin)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 03:26:07 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>
	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
Message-ID: <5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>

The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state agencies for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend National Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid for by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being experienced?
How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?

Thanks.
marc


Marc Dubin, Esq.
Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
mdubin at pobox.com
Mobile: 305-896-3000 
Fax: 877-731-3030
www.victimswithdisabilities.org 
Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee 
http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/ 
Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005   www.ada.gov 
Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have little 
if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a system 
of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of 
Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a consultant 
on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While consumers 
definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of their 
choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other legislation 
will not get rewritten using this format.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser" 
<MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] petition


> please read and sign
> 
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973/
>      Quick
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com


From k7uij at panix.com  Sun Jan 10 15:06:28 2010
From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 07:06:28 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>
Message-ID: <1D570901AC47476099046CEB015B53F9@owner1e06aeb63>

The usual mantra of many agencies/counselors amounts to the statement"Our 
state agency already has an orientation and training/adjustment center 
in-state which is largely already paid for so it's a waste of tax dollars to 
send the client out-of-state to what are essentially duplicate services 
which may be more expensive in any event". Implicit in this mantra is the 
assumption that there is nothing especially different or unique in training 
imbued with NFB philosophy.

Mike Freeman, President
NFB of Washington

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state agencies 
> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend National 
> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid for 
> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being 
> experienced?
> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>
> Thanks.
> marc
>
>
> Marc Dubin, Esq.
> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
> mdubin at pobox.com
> Mobile: 305-896-3000
> Fax: 877-731-3030
> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005 
> www.ada.gov
> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have little
> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a 
> system
> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a 
> consultant
> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While consumers
> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of 
> their
> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other legislation
> will not get rewritten using this format.
> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
> 1237 P Street
> Fresno ca 93721
> 559-266-9237
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> please read and sign
>>
>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973/
>>      Quick
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com 



From bspiry at comcast.net  Sun Jan 10 20:11:16 2010
From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 12:11:16 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis
In-Reply-To: <37377A4018494CDE8467A107DD5AA342@arm4rPC>
Message-ID: <mailman.25.1771245439.733174.blindlaw_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

I concur with Angie's assessment. I have run into some limitations in Lexis
while shepardizing cases, specifically the symbol system they use to
indicate treatment of the case in subsequent cases is not very accessible
with JAWS in some areas. I think the shepardizing tool is a bit more robust
than the Westlaw tool, maybe, but the westlaw site is definitely more
accessible even though a bit more cluttered than Lexis.
  

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:12 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis

I have had positive experiences with both. the Lexis customer service people
were very helpful when I called with a JAWS-related issue two years back. 
I'd say I probably prefer Westlaw because of the optional text site, but I
don't use that as my default. I find the main site quite navigable with
JAWS. I will use the text site if I have a very good idea of what I want to
find, or if I want to pull up specific sources.

Angie



----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Kelly" <Susan.Kelly at pima.gov>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis


> Our office has a Westlaw contract, so we didn't get much choice,  When I
> first started needing an adaptive tool for the computer, I was very
> annoyed with it, because it was not working well with my screen
> magnifier/reader (WinZoom) - then our rep told me about
> www.text.westlaw.com, the text-only version - and it is working quite
> well.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of James Weisberg
> Sent: Monday, 07 December, 2009 9:15 AM
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis
>
> My preference is Westlaw as they have some pretty good support for JAWS.
> I
> have a contact name and number but have never used it for JAWS training
> on
> Westlaw (which is provided by West).
>
> James W. Weisberg, Esq.
>
> Law Office of J. William Weisberg
>
> 299 South Patencio Road #3
>
> Palm Springs, California  92262
>
> V:  916.425.1010
>
> F:  916.374.7667
>
> E-Mail:  jimi-law at dc.rr.com
>
> Admitted in Wisconsin
>
> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil
> Rights
> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes
>
> This message contains information which may be confidential and
> privileged.
> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the
> addressee),
> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any
> information
> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error,
> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from
> your
> system.
>
> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client
> relationship
> nor does it constitute legal advice.  The Law Office of J. William
> Weisberg
> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in
> accordance with this disclaimer.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> Behalf Of Ben Karpilow
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM
> To: blind law mailing list
> Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis
>
> Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the
> verge of
> beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight).
> Thanks,
> Ben
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.
> rr.c
> om
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature
> database 4667 (20091207) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
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> signature
> database 4667 (20091207) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
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> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
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> _______________________________________________
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> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40
> pima.gov
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
il.com
> 


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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et



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 10 20:14:27 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 12:14:27 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>
Message-ID: <8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>

There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does not 
want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as the 
NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other things 
to be have the fees paid.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state agencies 
> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend National 
> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid for 
> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being 
> experienced?
> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>
> Thanks.
> marc
>
>
> Marc Dubin, Esq.
> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
> mdubin at pobox.com
> Mobile: 305-896-3000
> Fax: 877-731-3030
> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005 
> www.ada.gov
> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have little
> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a 
> system
> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a 
> consultant
> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While consumers
> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of 
> their
> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other legislation
> will not get rewritten using this format.
> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
> 1237 P Street
> Fresno ca 93721
> 559-266-9237
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> please read and sign
>>
>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973/
>>      Quick
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Jan 10 22:09:26 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:09:26 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Telecommunications Accessibility
In-Reply-To: <84B80B60D481457E9B75197371FE003C@Rufus>
References: <84B80B60D481457E9B75197371FE003C@Rufus>
Message-ID: <auto-000134372075@mailfront2.g2host.com>

It is section 255 of the Telecommunications Act of 1996.

Dave

At 09:26 PM 1/5/2010, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>Can someone tell me what statute spells out equal accessibility for
>telecommunication providers?  I vaguely remember someone claiming they were
>going to take their cell phone carrier to court for not allowing them to
>cancel their contract on account of the phone not being accessible.  I doubt
>the case ever got far, but at any rate, I can't remember what law they were
>referencing or if it was some complaint they were taking to the FCC rather
>than court.   Thanks for any information.
>
>Joe Orozco
>
>"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>crowd."--Max Lucado



From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Jan 10 23:24:30 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:24:30 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your  choice,
 not Email
In-Reply-To: <019b01ca9014$f514b0c0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
References: <auto-000134106866@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<019b01ca9014$f514b0c0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
Message-ID: <auto-000134666678@mailfront1.g2host.com>

I just tried it and it worked.  Make sure your mail program isn't 
wrapping it onto two lines, or truncating it in some other way.

Dave

At 09:45 PM 1/7/2010, you wrote:
>Hello!
>I just entered on this link and was told page not found.
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Chela Robles (by way of David 
>Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)" <cdrobles693 at gmail.com>
>To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:17 AM
>Subject: [blindlaw] SSA Will Provide Accessible Media Of Your choice,not Email
>
>
>>Due to a settlement with the American Council of the Blind, the 
>>Social Security Administration now offers new ways to receive 
>>communications from them. Options include Braille, Microsoft Word 
>>on a CD-ROM, or regular print with a follow-up phone call to read 
>>the information. The braille and CD options start on April 15. 
>>Email is not an included option, but you can call a phone number to 
>>request a format not listed.
>>Please visit this link for more information on how to change from 
>>printed mail to another method.
>><http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/>http://www.socialsecurity.gov/notices/
>>
>>There is a link toward the bottom of the page called Request For 
>>Special Notice Option and as of now it is not available, so when I 
>>clicked the link, it said:
>>
>>We are sorry for the inconvenience, but we cannot process your 
>>request at this time.
>>
>>This service is available during the following hours (Eastern Time):
>>
>>Monday through Friday: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>>Saturday: 5:00 AM - 11:00 PM
>>Sunday: 7:00 AM - 11: PM
>>Holidays: 3:00 AM - 2:00 AM
>>
>>If you need immediate assistance,
>>
>>you may call us Monday through Friday: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM at:
>>1-800-772-1213
>>
>>If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing, call our toll-free TTY number:
>>1-800-325-0778
>>If you need to visit your local Social Security office you can get 
>>directions and a map to your local Social Security office by 
>>visiting link on the page I directed you to, labeled Field Office Locator.
>>----------------
>>"If you go without playing the trumpet for one day, no one knows, 
>>two days, only you know, and more than three days without 
>>practicing, girl you better look out, because everyone will know!"
>>----------------
>>Chela Robles
>>E-Mail: <mailto:cdrobles693 at gmail.com>cdrobles693 at gmail.com
>>MSNWindowsLive Messenger: 
>><mailto:cdrobles693 at hotmail.com>cdrobles693 at hotmail.com
>>Skype: jazzytrumpet



From b75205 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 17:58:08 2010
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:58:08 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>
	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>
	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>
Message-ID: <fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>

Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going to do
much.

 You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them why it
doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do not
work, they are not in your shoes.

James

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does not
> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as the
> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other things
> to be have the fees paid.
>
> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
> 1237 P Street
> Fresno ca 93721
> 559-266-9237
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state agencies
>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend National
>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid for
>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>> experienced?
>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>
>> Thanks.
>> marc
>>
>>
>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>> mdubin at pobox.com
>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>> www.ada.gov
>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have little
>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>> system
>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>> consultant
>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While consumers
>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>> their
>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other legislation
>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>> 1237 P Street
>> Fresno ca 93721
>> 559-266-9237
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>> please read and sign
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973/
>>>     Quick
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>

From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan 12 02:34:08 2010
From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:34:08 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
Message-ID: <005501ca932f$b813c5d0$6601a8c0@server>

If you are a blind lawyer or second or third year law student please read 
on.  We are pribeleged to be lawyers and this is an appeal for you to join 
with me to begin formulating a long term legal strategy which will enable us 
as blind people to make the same kind of progress in kind and degree as 
other minority groups have made during the past 60 years.  This will involve 
each of us becoming experts on the legal histories of women, blacks, and 
gays, to understand the seminal cases and legislation which has led to their 
progress, and to develop a well thought out, cohesive legal theory for blind 
civil rights which uses the issues and cases of these other groups as 
precedent or persuasive support for our own analogous legal claims.

When I was in law school I was fortunate to get to know one of the attorneys 
who worked on the Jackie Robinson law suit which integrated professional 
baseball.  He was a celebrated law professor and lawyer who participated in 
this law suit as a volunteer civil rights lawyer for B'nai B'rith.  Most of 
the successful civil rights cases which have led to the equality that blacks 
benefit from today were fought by the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai 
B'rith both together and separately.  Thergood Marshal was also a critical 
global thinker and player with the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and it was those 
successes which led President Johnson to appoint him to the Supreme Court.

My professor told me that the Jackie Robinson case was planned long before 
Jackie Robinson himself was identified as the best plaintiff for the case. 
In the 40's and 50's a group of very brilliant lawyers and law professors 
talked and met together frequently to create a long term legal strategy 
which could shape and reorient the law to achieve civil rights progress for 
both blacks and Jews.  They carefully decided which cases needed to be 
brought ahead of other cases because obviously some cases will become 
seminal and have a larger impact on society than others.

The decision to challenge professional baseballs prohibition against black 
players was one of these key strategic decisions.  Once it was decided to 
file this important case, they set out to find the right player to be the 
plaintiff.  He said that they knew they needed a player who was perfect in 
every way.  The player would need to be a great hitter and be pretty much 
qualified to play every other position on the field at a professional level. 
The key was to have a player who was so unbelievable in every way so that 
any argument which could be made against hiring such a black player would be 
clearly irrational, and as such based purely on racial prejudice.  Beyond 
this, he said that they needed a player who could emotionally withstand the 
abuse which would be aimed at him by players and fans once the case was won 
and he was hired.  He was going to be the target of much hatred, he would 
not be permitted to stay in hotels with the rest of the team in many cities, 
he could not eat in the same restaurants as the rest of the team in many 
cities, and his life really could be at risk.  It was undeniable that this 
was going to take a very special person and they waited quite a while to 
file the suit until they found jus that right person, and that man was 
Jackie Robinson.

The main point here is that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith 
didn't simply file cases willie nillie, but rather they chose cases 
carefully so as to move the courts along slowly but surely.  Filing a 
dubious case where there is a fifty fifty chance of losing would have been 
understood as potentially counter-productive.  Clearly if we as blind people 
win a case we have a precedent in our favor, but if we lose a case this is a 
setback because we have created a precedent that is contrary to our civil 
rights progress.

I am confident that I will be attacked for this, but I believe that we have 
steadily lost ground over the past 30 years in both education and 
employment.  Obviously today's young blind adults can not know this because 
as is true for all people, our reality is shaped mostly by what we are 
experiencing.  Moreover there is a human prejudice that today must always be 
better than yesterday.

but my claim is that those of us who were teenagers and young adults in the 
60's and 70's had more opportunities than similarly situated blind people 
today.  When I took the PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE LSAT, and 4 bar exams, I was 
given fair exams by competent readers.  To have done less than this in those 
days would have been regarded as unthinkable and absurd by the agencies 
providing these tests because it would have been thought as simply unfair. 
Today one is lucky if the reader provided by any of these agencies is barely 
literate.

For me most of these exams predated the ADA and my claim is that the ADA is 
the problem.  I have dealt with a number of these agencies on behalf of 
disabled clients who have come to me for help, and I can tell you that the 
agencies think the ADA empowers them to simply give blind people a reader of 
the agencies choosing.  On numerous occasions I have been told by 
representatives of these agencies that all they are required to do is 
provide a reader of their choosing.  I point out that the ADA says 
"qualified reader," not just a reader.  Inevitably they then claim that all 
their readers are qualified even though they can not articulate what steps 
they have taken to verify this to be true.  Further discussion usually 
results in a very smug acknowledgement that they hold all the power and if 
we think we can do something about it then go ahead.  They are right.  We 
have become powerless, but that can change if those of us with law school 
educations come together and force a change.

I would be curious to know how many blind students there are today at the 5 
top ranked engineering schools in the U.S.  My guess is zero, but I hope I 
am wrong about this.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were a number of 
us.  I attended Stanford in Mechanical Engineering from 1977 to 1981 and all 
of my materials were provided to me in Braille including thousands of raised 
line drawings, and without these materials it would have been impossible for 
me to do the program.  One of my engineering professors was a retired 
Admiral from the Navy and one day he asked me if an optacon would be useful 
to me and if I would like one?  I told him that I had a little experience 
with it, but they cost $5000 and I wasn't sure that I could afford it or 
that it would be useful enough to justify the cost.  He had an interesting 
response.  He said, Dennis first of all Stanford is rich so they can afford 
it.  Second, he said, "Stanford admitted you and it is Stanford's 
responsibility to provide you what ever resources you need to be 
successful."  Has anyone heard any professors today say anything like this? 
I think not.  On these forums I have read of a blind college student being 
told by a professor that he could not play in the school band because he was 
blind.  I would have thought that even the dumbest professor in the world 
could have gotten this right simply because of Ray Charles and Stevie 
Wonder.  I recall a law school dean at the University of Alaska stating that 
a blind applicant could not be admitted because blind people can not be 
lawyers.

Another of my professors was Robert Hofstadter.  He had a Nobel prize in 
Physics.  I approached him near the midterm, and asked him if we could 
arrange for someone to read the midterm to me.  He immediately responded, 
Well why don't you come to my office the morning of the test and I will read 
it to you, which he did.  I have read of professors who now shoot their 
exams over to the disability services office to be read aloud by someone 
completely unable to read aloud.  The professor can't be bothered today. 
When we finished Professor Hofstadter said that he wished he could do this 
with every student because he would then really know what students did and 
didn't understand and he would then know what he needed to spend additional 
time on in lectures.

There was no disabled students office to function as an obstacle between my 
professors and me.  There was no disabled students office which had the 
responsibility to provide me with Braille or readers or anything else, and 
this was a plus not a minus because today these offices frequently fall down 
on the job and the student is left completely holding the bag.  No business 
would rely on a vendor which comes through only 60 or 70 per cent of the 
time, particularly when the business has no power over the vendor.  This is 
a formula for disaster and no sensible manager would do this yet blind 
students are now forced into this situation all the time.  Because of this 
lack of accountability by disabled students offices I have recently read a 
discussion where a blind student is asking how he can handle a college math 
class using readers because he doesn't have a Braille math book.  No sighted 
student would be expected to do college math without a print book and they 
can see the board.  During the past 20 years I am confident that we have 
spent tens of millions of dollars on disability student offices and the 
students now have less than we had in the 70's without all this money having 
been spent.  Why?

I  would argue that we as lawyers need to rethink our current situation and 
get a handle on the legal twists and turns that brought us here.  My 
thinking is that we should begin by revisiting Plessy v. Ferguson an the 2 
law school cases which overturned Plessy.  The Supreme Court decided that 
separate but equal can never actually be equal, so Plessy was done away 
with.

However, almost all the law which governs our lives, rights and 
opportunities as blind people is openly based on the notion that separate 
but unequal treatment for us is acceptable.  We actually spend most of our 
time as blind people asking for separate but unequal treatment as an 
accommodation.  Women, blacks, and gays do not do this.  They are clear that 
separate is always unequal and they are having none of it.

Consider this.  When I was in law school an issue arose concerning women law 
school students.  For some reason there is a shower in one of the men's 
restrooms at the University of Chicago Law School.  The law school was built 
in the 50's before there were many if any women law students.  There are 
certainly women's restrooms, but none with a shower.

Men and women alike have taken in recent years to exercising while at school 
and some of them wish to shower after they run or exercise.  This is not a 
problem for men since there is a shower, but what can women do?  It was 
initially proposed that women could go over to the main campus to the gym 
and shower there.  This is about 4 blocks from the law school across the 
midway.  This was a no go as far as women were concerned.  They asked why 
should they have to go a total of 8 blocks round trip to shower when men 
could shower without leaving the law school?  At first the administration 
argued that since women needed to shower because they were already 
exercising then why wouldn't they be willing to go across campus since a 
little additional exercise was all that was being proposed?  However, the 
universal consensus of men and women alike based on common sense and basic 
fairness was that this was not acceptable.  It was viewed as pretty much 
obvious that it would be unfair to expect women to have to do more than men 
when they engaged in the same activity as men.  I dare say that those 
reading this would probably agree and I'm asking you to keep on that same 
fairness hat when you consider the following question.

Why is it fair for a blind person to have to take twice as long on an exam 
as a sighted person in order to obtain an equivalent valid score?  My claim 
is that it is not fair and women would not put up with it for a second. 
Women would tell you to figure out how to do it with out them taking on any 
burden which is greater than that of men.  They would be right.  As a matter 
of testing science and methodology it is possible to create an exam which 
blind people could take in the same length of time which would be equally 
valid, but it is not being done because we have permitted them to dump the 
burden of accommodation on us rather than requiring them to spend more money 
validating their standardized tests.

Would a professional quarterback ever be expected to play football in an 
important game with a center that he has never had the opportunity to 
practice with?  No.  This would be regarded as absurd and totally unfair. 
Yet we are expected to work with readers on exams that our entire futures 
and jobs are dependent upon; with readers who we've never met, tested or 
practiced with and who often can not even read English aloud accurately. 
Women would not put up with this.  Blacks would not put up with this.  We 
do, and the reason we do is that we feel powerless to do anything about it. 
We have come to think like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire, that we must 
depend on the kindness of strangers.

I worked for 5 years for a very large law firm, and we never ourselves, nor 
did we ever advise our clients to depend on the kindness of the other side. 
The parties on the other side wanted to win because they wanted their own 
way, and our clients also wanted to win because they wanted their own way. 
There was no kindness on either side and that is how it should be in matters 
of law.  As lawyers it is our mandated responsibility to zealously represent 
our clients which means it is our job to fight them with everything we have 
to make certain that our clients win.  That's what lawyers do.  We are 
priviledged to be lawyers.  We have one power that no one else has.  As all 
non lawyers must acknowledge, you can write thousands of letters to someone 
trying to get them to talk with you and they can throw them in the trash. 
You can light up their switchboard all day long with phone calls and they 
can tell the operator to say that they are not in.  However, we as lawyers 
have the power to force them to talk with us simply by serving a complaint 
on them and they will definitely talk with us in front of a judge.  They 
will not ignore that.

I'm sure I have offended some, bored most, and confused others.  But if you 
are a lawyer and I have struck a chord with you and reawakened for a moment 
a memory of why you went to law school to begin with, please contact me.  We 
have the knowledge and the power to make real change for blind people if we 
choose to come together like the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith. 
Thanks for reading and I hope to talk with you.

Warmest regards,
Dennis



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Tue Jan 12 02:32:55 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 21:32:55 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>
	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>
	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>
	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>

You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center, 
funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those same 
tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If the 
NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to 
attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way with 
NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States 
with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers. 
There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like 
saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to 
attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf 
resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a 
private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to 
makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually, 
state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state institutions. 
You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make up 
the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB center 
if his or her state has a blindness center.

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going to 
> do
> much.
>
> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them why 
> it
> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do 
> not
> work, they are not in your shoes.
>
> James
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does not
>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as the
>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other 
>> things
>> to be have the fees paid.
>>
>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>> 1237 P Street
>> Fresno ca 93721
>> 559-266-9237
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state 
>> agencies
>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend National
>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid 
>>> for
>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>> experienced?
>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> marc
>>>
>>>
>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>> www.ada.gov
>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have 
>>> little
>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>> system
>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>> consultant
>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While 
>>> consumers
>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>> their
>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other legislation
>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>> 1237 P Street
>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>> 559-266-9237
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>> please read and sign
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973/
>>>>     Quick
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan 12 02:44:53 2010
From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:44:53 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
Message-ID: <006701ca9331$3822b640$6601a8c0@server>

If you are a blind lawyer or second or third year law student please read on.  We are privileged to be lawyers and this is an appeal for you to join with me to begin formulating a long term legal strategy which will enable us as blind people to make the same kind of progress in kind and degree as other minority groups have made during the past 60 years.  This will involve each of us becoming experts on the legal histories of women, blacks, and gays, to understand the seminal cases and legislation which has led to their progress, and to develop a well thought out, cohesive legal theory for blind civil rights which uses the issues and cases of these other groups as precedent or persuasive support for our own analogous legal claims.  

When I was in law school I was fortunate to get to know one of the attorneys who worked on the Jackie Robinson law suit which integrated professional baseball.  He was a celebrated law professor and lawyer who participated in this law suit as a volunteer civil rights lawyer for B'nai B'rith.  Most of the successful civil rights cases which have led to the equality that blacks benefit from today were fought by the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith both together and separately.  Thurgood Marshal was also a critical global thinker and player with the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and it was those successes which led President Johnson to appoint him to the Supreme Court.  

My professor told me that the Jackie Robinson case was planned long before Jackie Robinson himself was identified as the best plaintiff for the case.  In the 40's and 50's a group of very brilliant lawyers and law professors talked and met together frequently to create a long term legal strategy which could shape and reorient the law to achieve civil rights progress for both blacks and Jews.  They carefully decided which cases needed to be brought ahead of other cases because obviously some cases will become seminal and have a larger impact on society than others.  

The decision to challenge professional baseballs prohibition against black players was one of these key strategic decisions.  Once it was decided to file this important case, they set out to find the right player to be the plaintiff.  He said that they knew they needed a player who was perfect in every way.  The player would need to be a great hitter and be pretty much qualified to play every other position on the field at a professional level.  The key was to have a player who was so unbelievable in every way so that any argument which could be made against hiring such a black player would be clearly irrational, and as such based purely on racial prejudice.  Beyond this, he said that they needed a player who could emotionally withstand the abuse which would be aimed at him by players and fans once the case was won and he was hired.  He was going to be the target of much hatred, he would not be permitted to stay in hotels with the rest of the team in many cities, he could not eat in the same restaurants as the rest of the team in many cities, and his life really could be at risk.  It was undeniable that this was going to take a very special person and they waited quite a while to file the suit until they found jus that right person, and that man was Jackie Robinson.  

The main point here is that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith didn't simply file cases willie nillie, but rather they chose cases carefully so as to move the courts along slowly but surely.  Filing a dubious case where there is a fifty fifty chance of losing would have been understood as potentially counter-productive.  Clearly if we as blind people win a case we have a precedent in our favor, but if we lose a case this is a setback because we have created a precedent that is contrary to our civil rights progress.  

I am confident that I will be attacked for this, but I believe that we have steadily lost ground over the past 30 years in both education and employment.  Obviously today's young blind adults can not know this because as is true for all people, our reality is shaped mostly by what we are experiencing.  Moreover there is a human prejudice that today must always be better than yesterday.  

but my claim is that those of us who were teenagers and young adults in the 60's and 70's had more opportunities than similarly situated blind people today.  When I took the PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE LSAT, and 4 bar exams, I was given fair exams by competent readers.  To have done less than this in those days would have been regarded as unthinkable and absurd by the agencies providing these tests because it would have been thought as simply unfair.  Today one is lucky if the reader provided by any of these agencies is barely literate.  

For me most of these exams predated the ADA and my claim is that the ADA is the problem.  I have dealt with a number of these agencies on behalf of disabled clients who have come to me for help, and I can tell you that the agencies think the ADA empowers them to simply give blind people a reader of the agencies choosing.  On numerous occasions I have been told by representatives of these agencies that all they are required to do is provide a reader of their choosing.  I point out that the ADA says "qualified reader," not just a reader.  Inevitably they then claim that all their readers are qualified even though they can not articulate what steps they have taken to verify this to be true.  Further discussion usually results in a very smug acknowledgement that they hold all the power and if we think we can do something about it then go ahead.  They are right.  We have become powerless, but that can change if those of us with law school educations come together and force a change.  

I would be curious to know how many blind students there are today at the 5 top ranked engineering schools in the U.S.  My guess is zero, but I hope I am wrong about this.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were a number of us.  I attended Stanford in Mechanical Engineering from 1977 to 1981 and all of my materials were provided to me in Braille including thousands of raised line drawings, and without these materials it would have been impossible for me to do the program.  One of my engineering professors was a retired Admiral from the Navy and one day he asked me if an optacon would be useful to me and if I would like one?  I told him that I had a little experience with it, but they cost $5000 and I wasn't sure that I could afford it or that it would be useful enough to justify the cost.  He had an interesting response.  He said, Dennis first of all Stanford is rich so they can afford it.  Second, he said, "Stanford admitted you and it is Stanford's responsibility to provide you what ever resources you need to be successful."  Has anyone heard any professors today say anything like this?  I think not.  On these forums I have read of a blind college student being told by a professor that he could not play in the school band because he was blind.  I would have thought that even the dumbest professor in the world could have gotten this right simply because of Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder.  I recall a law school dean at the University of Alaska stating that a blind applicant could not be admitted because blind people can not be lawyers.  

Another of my professors was Robert Hofstadter.  He had a Nobel prize in Physics.  I approached him near the midterm, and asked him if we could arrange for someone to read the midterm to me.  He immediately responded, Well why don't you come to my office the morning of the test and I will read it to you, which he did.  I have read of professors who now shoot their exams over to the disability services office to be read aloud by someone completely unable to read aloud.  The professor can't be bothered today.  When we finished Professor Hofstadter said that he wished he could do this with every student because he would then really know what students did and didn't understand and he would then know what he needed to spend additional time on in lectures.  

There was no disabled students office to function as an obstacle between my professors and me.  There was no disabled students office which had the responsibility to provide me with Braille or readers or anything else, and this was a plus not a minus because today these offices frequently fall down on the job and the student is left completely holding the bag.  No business would rely on a vendor which comes through only 60 or 70 per cent of the time, particularly when the business has no power over the vendor.  This is a formula for disaster and no sensible manager would do this yet blind students are now forced into this situation all the time.  Because of this lack of accountability by disabled students offices I have recently read a discussion where a blind student is asking how he can handle a college math class using readers because he doesn't have a Braille math book.  No sighted student would be expected to do college math without a print book and they can see the board.  During the past 20 years I am confident that we have spent tens of millions of dollars on disability student offices and the students now have less than we had in the 70's without all this money having been spent.  Why?

I  would argue that we as lawyers need to rethink our current situation and get a handle on the legal twists and turns that brought us here.  My thinking is that we should begin by revisiting Plessy v. Ferguson an the 2 law school cases which overturned Plessy.  The Supreme Court decided that separate but equal can never actually be equal, so Plessy was done away with.  

However, almost all the law which governs our lives, rights and opportunities as blind people is openly based on the notion that separate but unequal treatment for us is acceptable.  We actually spend most of our time as blind people asking for separate but unequal treatment as an accommodation.  Women, blacks, and gays do not do this.  They are clear that separate is always unequal and they are having none of it.  

Consider this.  When I was in law school an issue arose concerning women law school students.  For some reason there is a shower in one of the men's restrooms at the University of Chicago Law School.  The law school was built in the 50's before there were many if any women law students.  There are certainly women's restrooms, but none with a shower.  

Men and women alike have taken in recent years to exercising while at school and some of them wish to shower after they run or exercise.  This is not a problem for men since there is a shower, but what can women do?  It was initially proposed that women could go over to the main campus to the gym and shower there.  This is about 4 blocks from the law school across the midway.  This was a no go as far as women were concerned.  They asked why should they have to go a total of 8 blocks round trip to shower when men could shower without leaving the law school?  At first the administration argued that since women needed to shower because they were already exercising then why wouldn't they be willing to go across campus since a little additional exercise was all that was being proposed?  However, the universal consensus of men and women alike based on common sense and basic fairness was that this was not acceptable.  It was viewed as pretty much obvious that it would be unfair to expect women to have to do more than men when they engaged in the same activity as men.  I dare say that those reading this would probably agree and I'm asking you to keep on that same fairness hat when you consider the following question.

Why is it fair for a blind person to have to take twice as long on an exam as a sighted person in order to obtain an equivalent valid score?  My claim is that it is not fair and women would not put up with it for a second.  Women would tell you to figure out how to do it with out them taking on any burden which is greater than that of men.  They would be right.  As a matter of testing science and methodology it is possible to create an exam which blind people could take in the same length of time which would be equally valid, but it is not being done because we have permitted them to dump the burden of accommodation on us rather than requiring them to spend more money validating their standardized tests.  

Would a professional quarterback ever be expected to play football in an important game with a center that he has never had the opportunity to practice with?  No.  This would be regarded as absurd and totally unfair.  Yet we are expected to work with readers on exams that our entire futures and jobs are dependent upon; with readers who we've never met, tested or practiced with and who often can not even read English aloud accurately.  Women would not put up with this.  Blacks would not put up with this.  We do, and the reason we do is that we feel powerless to do anything about it.  We have come to think like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire, that we must depend on the kindness of strangers.  

I worked for 5 years for a very large law firm, and we never ourselves, nor did we ever advise our clients to depend on the kindness of the other side.  The parties on the other side wanted to win because they wanted their own way, and our clients also wanted to win because they wanted their own way.  There was no kindness on either side and that is how it should be in matters of law.  As lawyers it is our mandated responsibility to zealously represent our clients which means it is our job to fight them with everything we have to make certain that our clients win.  That's what lawyers do.  We are privileged to be lawyers.  We have one power that no one else has.  As all non lawyers must acknowledge, you can write thousands of letters to someone trying to get them to talk with you and they can throw them in the trash.  You can light up their switchboard all day long with phone calls and they can tell the operator to say that they are not in.  However, we as lawyers have the power to force them to talk with us simply by serving a complaint on them and they will definitely talk with us in front of a judge.  They will not ignore that.

I'm sure I have offended some, bored most, and confused others.  But if you are a lawyer and I have struck a chord with you and reawakened for a moment a memory of why you went to law school to begin with, please contact me.  We have the knowledge and the power to make real change for blind people if we choose to come together like the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith.  Thanks for reading and I hope to talk with you.

Warmest regards,
Dennis

From JFreeh at nfb.org  Tue Jan 12 02:49:04 2010
From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh,
	Jessica)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:49:04 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Blindness Organizations and Arizona State University
 Resolve Litigation Over Kindle
Message-ID: <auto-000134842778@mailfront1.g2host.com>


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

<mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org>cdanielsen at nfb.org



Mitch Pomerantz, President

American Council of the Blind

(626) 372-5150 (Cell)

<mailto:mitch.pomerantz at earthlink.net>mitch.pomerantz at earthlink.net



Department of Justice

Office of Public Affairs

(202) 514-2007



Sharon Keeler

Arizona State University

(480) 965-4012 (Office)

(602) 540-8453 (Cell)

<mailto:sharon.keeler at asu.edu>sharon.keeler at asu.edu





Blindness Organizations and Arizona State University

Resolve Litigation Over Kindle



Phoenix, Arizona (January 11, 2010): The National Federation of the 
Blind (NFB), the American Council of the Blind (ACB), and Arizona 
State University (ASU), today announced a settlement agreement 
resolving litigation filed by NFB and ACB against the Arizona Board 
of Regents (ABOR) and ASU.  The lawsuit arose from the university's 
participation in a pilot program using the Kindle DX, a dedicated 
device for reading electronic books, or e-books, developed by 
Amazon.com, Inc.  The NFB and ACB alleged that the Kindle DX was 
inaccessible to blind students and thus violated federal law.  ABOR 
and ASU denied and continue to deny any violations of the law.



The settlement agreement among the parties was reached in light of 
several factors, including: (1) ASU's commitment to providing access 
to all programs and facilities for students with disabilities, 
including students who are blind or have low vision; (2) the fact 
that the pilot program will end in the Spring of 2010; (3) Amazon and 
others are making improvements to and progress in the accessibility 
of e-book readers; and (4) the university's agreement that should ASU 
deploy e-book readers in future classes over the next two years, it 
will strive to use devices that are accessible to the blind.



The United States Department of Justice is also a party to the 
agreement, which does not involve the payment of any damages or 
attorney's fees or costs.



Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: 
"The National Federation of the Blind is pleased with this 
settlement, which we believe will help to ensure that new 
technologies create new opportunities for blind students rather than 
new barriers."



Mitch Pomerantz, President of the American Council of the Blind, 
expressed support by commenting: "I believe this settlement between 
Arizona State University and the two major national consumer-advocacy 
organizations of blind and visually impaired persons will encourage 
the industry to develop fully accessible e-book readers in the near future."



###


From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan 12 03:27:59 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:27:59 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
In-Reply-To: <005501ca932f$b813c5d0$6601a8c0@server>
References: <005501ca932f$b813c5d0$6601a8c0@server>
Message-ID: <231005B4BA044A899BE51EA1EF8F85A5@spike>

            Dennis, you raise many valid points and I although not a lawyer 
have come to many of the same realizations over the years. I attended 
University of Michigan both for my undergraduate degree and Master's degree 
in social work in the mid 70's through the early 80's. I also as a high 
school student was responsible for procuring many of my own text books and 
in college recruiting and supervising readers as the Disabled Student 
Services program at that time only provided lists of students that were 
interested in reading. Much of this reading was highly technical including 
legal research at a time when it was done in the stacks of the law library. 
Since then much of my work as a social worker and paralegal have been in an 
advocacy capacity. Being also active in the gay community I too have noticed 
the differences in civil rights action that I deal with in the gay community 
as compared to the blind community. As president of a local NFB chapter I am 
contacted frequently by blind people that experience discrimination or a 
lack of services because of unmet needs. Many of these people do not have a 
clue as to how to collectively or individually advocate to bring about 
individual or system wide change. I have addressed many of these issues on 
this and other list serves with varying degrees of success and I hope this 
results in a stronger sense of advocacy both by lawyers and nonlawyers to 
bring about acceptable standards. Unfortunately with the ADA a mindset has 
been created where a "one shoe fits all" mentality has been created although 
the law does not require disabled students to accept all services. When I 
returned to school about ten years ago to get my paralegal certificate the 
community college staff in the disabled student services program were 
shocked that I did not rely on them for services other than reading tests. I 
found that the qualifications of the readers varied and as I had done in the 
employment world just dealt with it not requiring any additional extra time 
although it was given. Perhaps this will stimulate other discussion on this 
topic.
Chuck Krugman, M.s.W., Paralegal
President NFB Central Valley Chapter
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 6:34 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys


> If you are a blind lawyer or second or third year law student please read 
> on.  We are pribeleged to be lawyers and this is an appeal for you to join 
> with me to begin formulating a long term legal strategy which will enable 
> us as blind people to make the same kind of progress in kind and degree as 
> other minority groups have made during the past 60 years.  This will 
> involve each of us becoming experts on the legal histories of women, 
> blacks, and gays, to understand the seminal cases and legislation which 
> has led to their progress, and to develop a well thought out, cohesive 
> legal theory for blind civil rights which uses the issues and cases of 
> these other groups as precedent or persuasive support for our own 
> analogous legal claims.
>
> When I was in law school I was fortunate to get to know one of the 
> attorneys who worked on the Jackie Robinson law suit which integrated 
> professional baseball.  He was a celebrated law professor and lawyer who 
> participated in this law suit as a volunteer civil rights lawyer for B'nai 
> B'rith.  Most of the successful civil rights cases which have led to the 
> equality that blacks benefit from today were fought by the NAACP Legal 
> Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith both together and separately.  Thergood 
> Marshal was also a critical global thinker and player with the NAACP Legal 
> Defense Fund and it was those successes which led President Johnson to 
> appoint him to the Supreme Court.
>
> My professor told me that the Jackie Robinson case was planned long before 
> Jackie Robinson himself was identified as the best plaintiff for the case. 
> In the 40's and 50's a group of very brilliant lawyers and law professors 
> talked and met together frequently to create a long term legal strategy 
> which could shape and reorient the law to achieve civil rights progress 
> for both blacks and Jews.  They carefully decided which cases needed to be 
> brought ahead of other cases because obviously some cases will become 
> seminal and have a larger impact on society than others.
>
> The decision to challenge professional baseballs prohibition against black 
> players was one of these key strategic decisions.  Once it was decided to 
> file this important case, they set out to find the right player to be the 
> plaintiff.  He said that they knew they needed a player who was perfect in 
> every way.  The player would need to be a great hitter and be pretty much 
> qualified to play every other position on the field at a professional 
> level. The key was to have a player who was so unbelievable in every way 
> so that any argument which could be made against hiring such a black 
> player would be clearly irrational, and as such based purely on racial 
> prejudice.  Beyond this, he said that they needed a player who could 
> emotionally withstand the abuse which would be aimed at him by players and 
> fans once the case was won and he was hired.  He was going to be the 
> target of much hatred, he would not be permitted to stay in hotels with 
> the rest of the team in many cities, he could not eat in the same 
> restaurants as the rest of the team in many cities, and his life really 
> could be at risk.  It was undeniable that this was going to take a very 
> special person and they waited quite a while to file the suit until they 
> found jus that right person, and that man was Jackie Robinson.
>
> The main point here is that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith 
> didn't simply file cases willie nillie, but rather they chose cases 
> carefully so as to move the courts along slowly but surely.  Filing a 
> dubious case where there is a fifty fifty chance of losing would have been 
> understood as potentially counter-productive.  Clearly if we as blind 
> people win a case we have a precedent in our favor, but if we lose a case 
> this is a setback because we have created a precedent that is contrary to 
> our civil rights progress.
>
> I am confident that I will be attacked for this, but I believe that we 
> have steadily lost ground over the past 30 years in both education and 
> employment.  Obviously today's young blind adults can not know this 
> because as is true for all people, our reality is shaped mostly by what we 
> are experiencing.  Moreover there is a human prejudice that today must 
> always be better than yesterday.
>
> but my claim is that those of us who were teenagers and young adults in 
> the 60's and 70's had more opportunities than similarly situated blind 
> people today.  When I took the PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE LSAT, and 4 bar exams, 
> I was given fair exams by competent readers.  To have done less than this 
> in those days would have been regarded as unthinkable and absurd by the 
> agencies providing these tests because it would have been thought as 
> simply unfair. Today one is lucky if the reader provided by any of these 
> agencies is barely literate.
>
> For me most of these exams predated the ADA and my claim is that the ADA 
> is the problem.  I have dealt with a number of these agencies on behalf of 
> disabled clients who have come to me for help, and I can tell you that the 
> agencies think the ADA empowers them to simply give blind people a reader 
> of the agencies choosing.  On numerous occasions I have been told by 
> representatives of these agencies that all they are required to do is 
> provide a reader of their choosing.  I point out that the ADA says 
> "qualified reader," not just a reader.  Inevitably they then claim that 
> all their readers are qualified even though they can not articulate what 
> steps they have taken to verify this to be true.  Further discussion 
> usually results in a very smug acknowledgement that they hold all the 
> power and if we think we can do something about it then go ahead.  They 
> are right.  We have become powerless, but that can change if those of us 
> with law school educations come together and force a change.
>
> I would be curious to know how many blind students there are today at the 
> 5 top ranked engineering schools in the U.S.  My guess is zero, but I hope 
> I am wrong about this.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were a number 
> of us.  I attended Stanford in Mechanical Engineering from 1977 to 1981 
> and all of my materials were provided to me in Braille including thousands 
> of raised line drawings, and without these materials it would have been 
> impossible for me to do the program.  One of my engineering professors was 
> a retired Admiral from the Navy and one day he asked me if an optacon 
> would be useful to me and if I would like one?  I told him that I had a 
> little experience with it, but they cost $5000 and I wasn't sure that I 
> could afford it or that it would be useful enough to justify the cost.  He 
> had an interesting response.  He said, Dennis first of all Stanford is 
> rich so they can afford it.  Second, he said, "Stanford admitted you and 
> it is Stanford's responsibility to provide you what ever resources you 
> need to be successful."  Has anyone heard any professors today say 
> anything like this? I think not.  On these forums I have read of a blind 
> college student being told by a professor that he could not play in the 
> school band because he was blind.  I would have thought that even the 
> dumbest professor in the world could have gotten this right simply because 
> of Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder.  I recall a law school dean at the 
> University of Alaska stating that a blind applicant could not be admitted 
> because blind people can not be lawyers.
>
> Another of my professors was Robert Hofstadter.  He had a Nobel prize in 
> Physics.  I approached him near the midterm, and asked him if we could 
> arrange for someone to read the midterm to me.  He immediately responded, 
> Well why don't you come to my office the morning of the test and I will 
> read it to you, which he did.  I have read of professors who now shoot 
> their exams over to the disability services office to be read aloud by 
> someone completely unable to read aloud.  The professor can't be bothered 
> today. When we finished Professor Hofstadter said that he wished he could 
> do this with every student because he would then really know what students 
> did and didn't understand and he would then know what he needed to spend 
> additional time on in lectures.
>
> There was no disabled students office to function as an obstacle between 
> my professors and me.  There was no disabled students office which had the 
> responsibility to provide me with Braille or readers or anything else, and 
> this was a plus not a minus because today these offices frequently fall 
> down on the job and the student is left completely holding the bag.  No 
> business would rely on a vendor which comes through only 60 or 70 per cent 
> of the time, particularly when the business has no power over the vendor. 
> This is a formula for disaster and no sensible manager would do this yet 
> blind students are now forced into this situation all the time.  Because 
> of this lack of accountability by disabled students offices I have 
> recently read a discussion where a blind student is asking how he can 
> handle a college math class using readers because he doesn't have a 
> Braille math book.  No sighted student would be expected to do college 
> math without a print book and they can see the board.  During the past 20 
> years I am confident that we have spent tens of millions of dollars on 
> disability student offices and the students now have less than we had in 
> the 70's without all this money having been spent.  Why?
>
> I  would argue that we as lawyers need to rethink our current situation 
> and get a handle on the legal twists and turns that brought us here.  My 
> thinking is that we should begin by revisiting Plessy v. Ferguson an the 2 
> law school cases which overturned Plessy.  The Supreme Court decided that 
> separate but equal can never actually be equal, so Plessy was done away 
> with.
>
> However, almost all the law which governs our lives, rights and 
> opportunities as blind people is openly based on the notion that separate 
> but unequal treatment for us is acceptable.  We actually spend most of our 
> time as blind people asking for separate but unequal treatment as an 
> accommodation.  Women, blacks, and gays do not do this.  They are clear 
> that separate is always unequal and they are having none of it.
>
> Consider this.  When I was in law school an issue arose concerning women 
> law school students.  For some reason there is a shower in one of the 
> men's restrooms at the University of Chicago Law School.  The law school 
> was built in the 50's before there were many if any women law students. 
> There are certainly women's restrooms, but none with a shower.
>
> Men and women alike have taken in recent years to exercising while at 
> school and some of them wish to shower after they run or exercise.  This 
> is not a problem for men since there is a shower, but what can women do? 
> It was initially proposed that women could go over to the main campus to 
> the gym and shower there.  This is about 4 blocks from the law school 
> across the midway.  This was a no go as far as women were concerned.  They 
> asked why should they have to go a total of 8 blocks round trip to shower 
> when men could shower without leaving the law school?  At first the 
> administration argued that since women needed to shower because they were 
> already exercising then why wouldn't they be willing to go across campus 
> since a little additional exercise was all that was being proposed? 
> However, the universal consensus of men and women alike based on common 
> sense and basic fairness was that this was not acceptable.  It was viewed 
> as pretty much obvious that it would be unfair to expect women to have to 
> do more than men when they engaged in the same activity as men.  I dare 
> say that those reading this would probably agree and I'm asking you to 
> keep on that same fairness hat when you consider the following question.
>
> Why is it fair for a blind person to have to take twice as long on an exam 
> as a sighted person in order to obtain an equivalent valid score?  My 
> claim is that it is not fair and women would not put up with it for a 
> second. Women would tell you to figure out how to do it with out them 
> taking on any burden which is greater than that of men.  They would be 
> right.  As a matter of testing science and methodology it is possible to 
> create an exam which blind people could take in the same length of time 
> which would be equally valid, but it is not being done because we have 
> permitted them to dump the burden of accommodation on us rather than 
> requiring them to spend more money validating their standardized tests.
>
> Would a professional quarterback ever be expected to play football in an 
> important game with a center that he has never had the opportunity to 
> practice with?  No.  This would be regarded as absurd and totally unfair. 
> Yet we are expected to work with readers on exams that our entire futures 
> and jobs are dependent upon; with readers who we've never met, tested or 
> practiced with and who often can not even read English aloud accurately. 
> Women would not put up with this.  Blacks would not put up with this.  We 
> do, and the reason we do is that we feel powerless to do anything about 
> it. We have come to think like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire, that 
> we must depend on the kindness of strangers.
>
> I worked for 5 years for a very large law firm, and we never ourselves, 
> nor did we ever advise our clients to depend on the kindness of the other 
> side. The parties on the other side wanted to win because they wanted 
> their own way, and our clients also wanted to win because they wanted 
> their own way. There was no kindness on either side and that is how it 
> should be in matters of law.  As lawyers it is our mandated responsibility 
> to zealously represent our clients which means it is our job to fight them 
> with everything we have to make certain that our clients win.  That's what 
> lawyers do.  We are priviledged to be lawyers.  We have one power that no 
> one else has.  As all non lawyers must acknowledge, you can write 
> thousands of letters to someone trying to get them to talk with you and 
> they can throw them in the trash. You can light up their switchboard all 
> day long with phone calls and they can tell the operator to say that they 
> are not in.  However, we as lawyers have the power to force them to talk 
> with us simply by serving a complaint on them and they will definitely 
> talk with us in front of a judge.  They will not ignore that.
>
> I'm sure I have offended some, bored most, and confused others.  But if 
> you are a lawyer and I have struck a chord with you and reawakened for a 
> moment a memory of why you went to law school to begin with, please 
> contact me.  We have the knowledge and the power to make real change for 
> blind people if we choose to come together like the NAACP Legal Defense 
> Fund and B'nai B'rith. Thanks for reading and I hope to talk with you.
>
> Warmest regards,
> Dennis
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 09:03:11 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 03:03:11 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>
Message-ID: <137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com>

How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local NFB
chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.  There
are some great points and there are some very strange ones.  

I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They are
tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.

So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center, 
funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those same 
tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If the 
NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to 
attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way with 
NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States 
with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers. 
There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like 
saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to 
attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf 
resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a 
private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to 
makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually, 
state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state institutions.

You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make up 
the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB center 
if his or her state has a blindness center.

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going to 
> do
> much.
>
> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them why 
> it
> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do 
> not
> work, they are not in your shoes.
>
> James
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does not
>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as the
>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other 
>> things
>> to be have the fees paid.
>>
>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>> 1237 P Street
>> Fresno ca 93721
>> 559-266-9237
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state 
>> agencies
>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend National
>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid 
>>> for
>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>> experienced?
>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> marc
>>>
>>>
>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>> www.ada.gov
>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have 
>>> little
>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>> system
>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>> consultant
>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While 
>>> consumers
>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>> their
>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other legislation
>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>> 1237 P Street
>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>> 559-266-9237
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>> please read and sign
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
/
>>>>     Quick
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
al.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
al.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
sightbb.com


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From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov  Tue Jan 12 15:33:03 2010
From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 08:33:03 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
In-Reply-To: <231005B4BA044A899BE51EA1EF8F85A5@spike>
References: <005501ca932f$b813c5d0$6601a8c0@server>
	<231005B4BA044A899BE51EA1EF8F85A5@spike>
Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D69E2@EVS02.central.pima.gov>

Although not yet totally blind, I also am interested in this...in the
not-quite one year since I have gone from just myopic to legally blind,
I have been showered with suggestions from otherwise intelligent and
well meaning members of the legal profession such as "how much longer
will they let you keep working?" and "why not quit and collect
disability?"  I have also been told that a reader would be a better
solution, rather than the purchase of adaptive equipment to allow me to
continue to work independently - fortunately, the governmental agency by
whom I am employed quickly accepted my desire to remain as independent
as possible, but my point is that the situation is equally frustrating
for those of us who retain some limited vision and wish to use what
little is left.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Monday, 11 January, 2010 8:28 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys

            Dennis, you raise many valid points and I although not a
lawyer 
have come to many of the same realizations over the years. I attended 
University of Michigan both for my undergraduate degree and Master's
degree 
in social work in the mid 70's through the early 80's. I also as a high 
school student was responsible for procuring many of my own text books
and 
in college recruiting and supervising readers as the Disabled Student 
Services program at that time only provided lists of students that were 
interested in reading. Much of this reading was highly technical
including 
legal research at a time when it was done in the stacks of the law
library. 
Since then much of my work as a social worker and paralegal have been in
an 
advocacy capacity. Being also active in the gay community I too have
noticed 
the differences in civil rights action that I deal with in the gay
community 
as compared to the blind community. As president of a local NFB chapter
I am 
contacted frequently by blind people that experience discrimination or a

lack of services because of unmet needs. Many of these people do not
have a 
clue as to how to collectively or individually advocate to bring about 
individual or system wide change. I have addressed many of these issues
on 
this and other list serves with varying degrees of success and I hope
this 
results in a stronger sense of advocacy both by lawyers and nonlawyers
to 
bring about acceptable standards. Unfortunately with the ADA a mindset
has 
been created where a "one shoe fits all" mentality has been created
although 
the law does not require disabled students to accept all services. When
I 
returned to school about ten years ago to get my paralegal certificate
the 
community college staff in the disabled student services program were 
shocked that I did not rely on them for services other than reading
tests. I 
found that the qualifications of the readers varied and as I had done in
the 
employment world just dealt with it not requiring any additional extra
time 
although it was given. Perhaps this will stimulate other discussion on
this 
topic.
Chuck Krugman, M.s.W., Paralegal
President NFB Central Valley Chapter
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 6:34 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys


> If you are a blind lawyer or second or third year law student please
read 
> on.  We are pribeleged to be lawyers and this is an appeal for you to
join 
> with me to begin formulating a long term legal strategy which will
enable 
> us as blind people to make the same kind of progress in kind and
degree as 
> other minority groups have made during the past 60 years.  This will 
> involve each of us becoming experts on the legal histories of women, 
> blacks, and gays, to understand the seminal cases and legislation
which 
> has led to their progress, and to develop a well thought out, cohesive

> legal theory for blind civil rights which uses the issues and cases of

> these other groups as precedent or persuasive support for our own 
> analogous legal claims.
>
> When I was in law school I was fortunate to get to know one of the 
> attorneys who worked on the Jackie Robinson law suit which integrated 
> professional baseball.  He was a celebrated law professor and lawyer
who 
> participated in this law suit as a volunteer civil rights lawyer for
B'nai 
> B'rith.  Most of the successful civil rights cases which have led to
the 
> equality that blacks benefit from today were fought by the NAACP Legal

> Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith both together and separately.  Thergood 
> Marshal was also a critical global thinker and player with the NAACP
Legal 
> Defense Fund and it was those successes which led President Johnson to

> appoint him to the Supreme Court.
>
> My professor told me that the Jackie Robinson case was planned long
before 
> Jackie Robinson himself was identified as the best plaintiff for the
case. 
> In the 40's and 50's a group of very brilliant lawyers and law
professors 
> talked and met together frequently to create a long term legal
strategy 
> which could shape and reorient the law to achieve civil rights
progress 
> for both blacks and Jews.  They carefully decided which cases needed
to be 
> brought ahead of other cases because obviously some cases will become 
> seminal and have a larger impact on society than others.
>
> The decision to challenge professional baseballs prohibition against
black 
> players was one of these key strategic decisions.  Once it was decided
to 
> file this important case, they set out to find the right player to be
the 
> plaintiff.  He said that they knew they needed a player who was
perfect in 
> every way.  The player would need to be a great hitter and be pretty
much 
> qualified to play every other position on the field at a professional 
> level. The key was to have a player who was so unbelievable in every
way 
> so that any argument which could be made against hiring such a black 
> player would be clearly irrational, and as such based purely on racial

> prejudice.  Beyond this, he said that they needed a player who could 
> emotionally withstand the abuse which would be aimed at him by players
and 
> fans once the case was won and he was hired.  He was going to be the 
> target of much hatred, he would not be permitted to stay in hotels
with 
> the rest of the team in many cities, he could not eat in the same 
> restaurants as the rest of the team in many cities, and his life
really 
> could be at risk.  It was undeniable that this was going to take a
very 
> special person and they waited quite a while to file the suit until
they 
> found jus that right person, and that man was Jackie Robinson.
>
> The main point here is that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai
B'rith 
> didn't simply file cases willie nillie, but rather they chose cases 
> carefully so as to move the courts along slowly but surely.  Filing a 
> dubious case where there is a fifty fifty chance of losing would have
been 
> understood as potentially counter-productive.  Clearly if we as blind 
> people win a case we have a precedent in our favor, but if we lose a
case 
> this is a setback because we have created a precedent that is contrary
to 
> our civil rights progress.
>
> I am confident that I will be attacked for this, but I believe that we

> have steadily lost ground over the past 30 years in both education and

> employment.  Obviously today's young blind adults can not know this 
> because as is true for all people, our reality is shaped mostly by
what we 
> are experiencing.  Moreover there is a human prejudice that today must

> always be better than yesterday.
>
> but my claim is that those of us who were teenagers and young adults
in 
> the 60's and 70's had more opportunities than similarly situated blind

> people today.  When I took the PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE LSAT, and 4 bar
exams, 
> I was given fair exams by competent readers.  To have done less than
this 
> in those days would have been regarded as unthinkable and absurd by
the 
> agencies providing these tests because it would have been thought as 
> simply unfair. Today one is lucky if the reader provided by any of
these 
> agencies is barely literate.
>
> For me most of these exams predated the ADA and my claim is that the
ADA 
> is the problem.  I have dealt with a number of these agencies on
behalf of 
> disabled clients who have come to me for help, and I can tell you that
the 
> agencies think the ADA empowers them to simply give blind people a
reader 
> of the agencies choosing.  On numerous occasions I have been told by 
> representatives of these agencies that all they are required to do is 
> provide a reader of their choosing.  I point out that the ADA says 
> "qualified reader," not just a reader.  Inevitably they then claim
that 
> all their readers are qualified even though they can not articulate
what 
> steps they have taken to verify this to be true.  Further discussion 
> usually results in a very smug acknowledgement that they hold all the 
> power and if we think we can do something about it then go ahead.
They 
> are right.  We have become powerless, but that can change if those of
us 
> with law school educations come together and force a change.
>
> I would be curious to know how many blind students there are today at
the 
> 5 top ranked engineering schools in the U.S.  My guess is zero, but I
hope 
> I am wrong about this.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were a
number 
> of us.  I attended Stanford in Mechanical Engineering from 1977 to
1981 
> and all of my materials were provided to me in Braille including
thousands 
> of raised line drawings, and without these materials it would have
been 
> impossible for me to do the program.  One of my engineering professors
was 
> a retired Admiral from the Navy and one day he asked me if an optacon 
> would be useful to me and if I would like one?  I told him that I had
a 
> little experience with it, but they cost $5000 and I wasn't sure that
I 
> could afford it or that it would be useful enough to justify the cost.
He 
> had an interesting response.  He said, Dennis first of all Stanford is

> rich so they can afford it.  Second, he said, "Stanford admitted you
and 
> it is Stanford's responsibility to provide you what ever resources you

> need to be successful."  Has anyone heard any professors today say 
> anything like this? I think not.  On these forums I have read of a
blind 
> college student being told by a professor that he could not play in
the 
> school band because he was blind.  I would have thought that even the 
> dumbest professor in the world could have gotten this right simply
because 
> of Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder.  I recall a law school dean at the 
> University of Alaska stating that a blind applicant could not be
admitted 
> because blind people can not be lawyers.
>
> Another of my professors was Robert Hofstadter.  He had a Nobel prize
in 
> Physics.  I approached him near the midterm, and asked him if we could

> arrange for someone to read the midterm to me.  He immediately
responded, 
> Well why don't you come to my office the morning of the test and I
will 
> read it to you, which he did.  I have read of professors who now shoot

> their exams over to the disability services office to be read aloud by

> someone completely unable to read aloud.  The professor can't be
bothered 
> today. When we finished Professor Hofstadter said that he wished he
could 
> do this with every student because he would then really know what
students 
> did and didn't understand and he would then know what he needed to
spend 
> additional time on in lectures.
>
> There was no disabled students office to function as an obstacle
between 
> my professors and me.  There was no disabled students office which had
the 
> responsibility to provide me with Braille or readers or anything else,
and 
> this was a plus not a minus because today these offices frequently
fall 
> down on the job and the student is left completely holding the bag.
No 
> business would rely on a vendor which comes through only 60 or 70 per
cent 
> of the time, particularly when the business has no power over the
vendor. 
> This is a formula for disaster and no sensible manager would do this
yet 
> blind students are now forced into this situation all the time.
Because 
> of this lack of accountability by disabled students offices I have 
> recently read a discussion where a blind student is asking how he can 
> handle a college math class using readers because he doesn't have a 
> Braille math book.  No sighted student would be expected to do college

> math without a print book and they can see the board.  During the past
20 
> years I am confident that we have spent tens of millions of dollars on

> disability student offices and the students now have less than we had
in 
> the 70's without all this money having been spent.  Why?
>
> I  would argue that we as lawyers need to rethink our current
situation 
> and get a handle on the legal twists and turns that brought us here.
My 
> thinking is that we should begin by revisiting Plessy v. Ferguson an
the 2 
> law school cases which overturned Plessy.  The Supreme Court decided
that 
> separate but equal can never actually be equal, so Plessy was done
away 
> with.
>
> However, almost all the law which governs our lives, rights and 
> opportunities as blind people is openly based on the notion that
separate 
> but unequal treatment for us is acceptable.  We actually spend most of
our 
> time as blind people asking for separate but unequal treatment as an 
> accommodation.  Women, blacks, and gays do not do this.  They are
clear 
> that separate is always unequal and they are having none of it.
>
> Consider this.  When I was in law school an issue arose concerning
women 
> law school students.  For some reason there is a shower in one of the 
> men's restrooms at the University of Chicago Law School.  The law
school 
> was built in the 50's before there were many if any women law
students. 
> There are certainly women's restrooms, but none with a shower.
>
> Men and women alike have taken in recent years to exercising while at 
> school and some of them wish to shower after they run or exercise.
This 
> is not a problem for men since there is a shower, but what can women
do? 
> It was initially proposed that women could go over to the main campus
to 
> the gym and shower there.  This is about 4 blocks from the law school 
> across the midway.  This was a no go as far as women were concerned.
They 
> asked why should they have to go a total of 8 blocks round trip to
shower 
> when men could shower without leaving the law school?  At first the 
> administration argued that since women needed to shower because they
were 
> already exercising then why wouldn't they be willing to go across
campus 
> since a little additional exercise was all that was being proposed? 
> However, the universal consensus of men and women alike based on
common 
> sense and basic fairness was that this was not acceptable.  It was
viewed 
> as pretty much obvious that it would be unfair to expect women to have
to 
> do more than men when they engaged in the same activity as men.  I
dare 
> say that those reading this would probably agree and I'm asking you to

> keep on that same fairness hat when you consider the following
question.
>
> Why is it fair for a blind person to have to take twice as long on an
exam 
> as a sighted person in order to obtain an equivalent valid score?  My 
> claim is that it is not fair and women would not put up with it for a 
> second. Women would tell you to figure out how to do it with out them 
> taking on any burden which is greater than that of men.  They would be

> right.  As a matter of testing science and methodology it is possible
to 
> create an exam which blind people could take in the same length of
time 
> which would be equally valid, but it is not being done because we have

> permitted them to dump the burden of accommodation on us rather than 
> requiring them to spend more money validating their standardized
tests.
>
> Would a professional quarterback ever be expected to play football in
an 
> important game with a center that he has never had the opportunity to 
> practice with?  No.  This would be regarded as absurd and totally
unfair. 
> Yet we are expected to work with readers on exams that our entire
futures 
> and jobs are dependent upon; with readers who we've never met, tested
or 
> practiced with and who often can not even read English aloud
accurately. 
> Women would not put up with this.  Blacks would not put up with this.
We 
> do, and the reason we do is that we feel powerless to do anything
about 
> it. We have come to think like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire,
that 
> we must depend on the kindness of strangers.
>
> I worked for 5 years for a very large law firm, and we never
ourselves, 
> nor did we ever advise our clients to depend on the kindness of the
other 
> side. The parties on the other side wanted to win because they wanted 
> their own way, and our clients also wanted to win because they wanted 
> their own way. There was no kindness on either side and that is how it

> should be in matters of law.  As lawyers it is our mandated
responsibility 
> to zealously represent our clients which means it is our job to fight
them 
> with everything we have to make certain that our clients win.  That's
what 
> lawyers do.  We are priviledged to be lawyers.  We have one power that
no 
> one else has.  As all non lawyers must acknowledge, you can write 
> thousands of letters to someone trying to get them to talk with you
and 
> they can throw them in the trash. You can light up their switchboard
all 
> day long with phone calls and they can tell the operator to say that
they 
> are not in.  However, we as lawyers have the power to force them to
talk 
> with us simply by serving a complaint on them and they will definitely

> talk with us in front of a judge.  They will not ignore that.
>
> I'm sure I have offended some, bored most, and confused others.  But
if 
> you are a lawyer and I have struck a chord with you and reawakened for
a 
> moment a memory of why you went to law school to begin with, please 
> contact me.  We have the knowledge and the power to make real change
for 
> blind people if we choose to come together like the NAACP Legal
Defense 
> Fund and B'nai B'rith. Thanks for reading and I hope to talk with you.
>
> Warmest regards,
> Dennis
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbc
global.net 


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From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Tue Jan 12 15:39:38 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:39:38 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>
	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>
	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>
	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>
	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com>
Message-ID: <1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>

With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local NFB
> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.  There
> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>
> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They 
> are
> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>
> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those 
> same
> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If the
> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way with
> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state 
> institutions.
>
> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make up
> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB 
> center
> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going to
>> do
>> much.
>>
>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them why
>> it
>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>> not
>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does 
>>> not
>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as 
>>> the
>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>> things
>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>
>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>> 1237 P Street
>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>> 559-266-9237
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>> agencies
>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend 
>>>> National
>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid
>>>> for
>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>> experienced?
>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> marc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>> little
>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>> system
>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>> consultant
>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>> consumers
>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>> their
>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other 
>>>> legislation
>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
> /
>>>>>     Quick
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
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From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 16:35:20 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:35:20 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com>
	<1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>
Message-ID: <13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>

What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.

And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is no
money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local NFB
> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.  There
> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>
> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They 
> are
> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>
> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those 
> same
> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If the
> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way with
> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state 
> institutions.
>
> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make up
> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB 
> center
> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going to
>> do
>> much.
>>
>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them why
>> it
>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>> not
>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does 
>>> not
>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as 
>>> the
>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>> things
>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>
>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>> 1237 P Street
>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>> 559-266-9237
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>> agencies
>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend 
>>>> National
>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid
>>>> for
>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>> experienced?
>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> marc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>> little
>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>> system
>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>> consultant
>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>> consumers
>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>> their
>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other 
>>>> legislation
>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
> /
>>>>>     Quick
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
>
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From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 17:21:17 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 11:21:17 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
In-Reply-To: <006701ca9331$3822b640$6601a8c0@server>
References: <006701ca9331$3822b640$6601a8c0@server>
Message-ID: <13ff01ca93ab$a736d640$f5a482c0$@com>

I think all that you've suggested is really great.  I absolutely agree with
the latter part of your e-mail.  It doesn't matter how much litigation is
put forth if there is no fervor within the blind and visual impaired
community.  Every example you gave was based upon a great demand within each
community.

The question is, how do we get everyone more involved?

Sometimes it seems as though many blind individuals, at least here where I
am, tend to be sort of hermit like.  What do we do about that?

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Dennis Clark
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:45 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys

If you are a blind lawyer or second or third year law student please read
on.  We are privileged to be lawyers and this is an appeal for you to join
with me to begin formulating a long term legal strategy which will enable us
as blind people to make the same kind of progress in kind and degree as
other minority groups have made during the past 60 years.  This will involve
each of us becoming experts on the legal histories of women, blacks, and
gays, to understand the seminal cases and legislation which has led to their
progress, and to develop a well thought out, cohesive legal theory for blind
civil rights which uses the issues and cases of these other groups as
precedent or persuasive support for our own analogous legal claims.  

When I was in law school I was fortunate to get to know one of the attorneys
who worked on the Jackie Robinson law suit which integrated professional
baseball.  He was a celebrated law professor and lawyer who participated in
this law suit as a volunteer civil rights lawyer for B'nai B'rith.  Most of
the successful civil rights cases which have led to the equality that blacks
benefit from today were fought by the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai
B'rith both together and separately.  Thurgood Marshal was also a critical
global thinker and player with the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and it was those
successes which led President Johnson to appoint him to the Supreme Court.  

My professor told me that the Jackie Robinson case was planned long before
Jackie Robinson himself was identified as the best plaintiff for the case.
In the 40's and 50's a group of very brilliant lawyers and law professors
talked and met together frequently to create a long term legal strategy
which could shape and reorient the law to achieve civil rights progress for
both blacks and Jews.  They carefully decided which cases needed to be
brought ahead of other cases because obviously some cases will become
seminal and have a larger impact on society than others.  

The decision to challenge professional baseballs prohibition against black
players was one of these key strategic decisions.  Once it was decided to
file this important case, they set out to find the right player to be the
plaintiff.  He said that they knew they needed a player who was perfect in
every way.  The player would need to be a great hitter and be pretty much
qualified to play every other position on the field at a professional level.
The key was to have a player who was so unbelievable in every way so that
any argument which could be made against hiring such a black player would be
clearly irrational, and as such based purely on racial prejudice.  Beyond
this, he said that they needed a player who could emotionally withstand the
abuse which would be aimed at him by players and fans once the case was won
and he was hired.  He was going to be the target of much hatred, he would
not be permitted to stay in hotels with the rest of the team in many cities,
he could not eat in the same restaurants as the rest of the team in many
cities, and his life really could be at risk.  It was undeniable that this
was going to take a very special person and they waited quite a while to
file the suit until they found jus that right person, and that man was
Jackie Robinson.  

The main point here is that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith
didn't simply file cases willie nillie, but rather they chose cases
carefully so as to move the courts along slowly but surely.  Filing a
dubious case where there is a fifty fifty chance of losing would have been
understood as potentially counter-productive.  Clearly if we as blind people
win a case we have a precedent in our favor, but if we lose a case this is a
setback because we have created a precedent that is contrary to our civil
rights progress.  

I am confident that I will be attacked for this, but I believe that we have
steadily lost ground over the past 30 years in both education and
employment.  Obviously today's young blind adults can not know this because
as is true for all people, our reality is shaped mostly by what we are
experiencing.  Moreover there is a human prejudice that today must always be
better than yesterday.  

but my claim is that those of us who were teenagers and young adults in the
60's and 70's had more opportunities than similarly situated blind people
today.  When I took the PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE LSAT, and 4 bar exams, I was
given fair exams by competent readers.  To have done less than this in those
days would have been regarded as unthinkable and absurd by the agencies
providing these tests because it would have been thought as simply unfair.
Today one is lucky if the reader provided by any of these agencies is barely
literate.  

For me most of these exams predated the ADA and my claim is that the ADA is
the problem.  I have dealt with a number of these agencies on behalf of
disabled clients who have come to me for help, and I can tell you that the
agencies think the ADA empowers them to simply give blind people a reader of
the agencies choosing.  On numerous occasions I have been told by
representatives of these agencies that all they are required to do is
provide a reader of their choosing.  I point out that the ADA says
"qualified reader," not just a reader.  Inevitably they then claim that all
their readers are qualified even though they can not articulate what steps
they have taken to verify this to be true.  Further discussion usually
results in a very smug acknowledgement that they hold all the power and if
we think we can do something about it then go ahead.  They are right.  We
have become powerless, but that can change if those of us with law school
educations come together and force a change.  

I would be curious to know how many blind students there are today at the 5
top ranked engineering schools in the U.S.  My guess is zero, but I hope I
am wrong about this.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were a number of
us.  I attended Stanford in Mechanical Engineering from 1977 to 1981 and all
of my materials were provided to me in Braille including thousands of raised
line drawings, and without these materials it would have been impossible for
me to do the program.  One of my engineering professors was a retired
Admiral from the Navy and one day he asked me if an optacon would be useful
to me and if I would like one?  I told him that I had a little experience
with it, but they cost $5000 and I wasn't sure that I could afford it or
that it would be useful enough to justify the cost.  He had an interesting
response.  He said, Dennis first of all Stanford is rich so they can afford
it.  Second, he said, "Stanford admitted you and it is Stanford's
responsibility to provide you what ever resources you need to be
successful."  Has anyone heard any professors today say anything like this?
I think not.  On these forums I have read of a blind college student being
told by a professor that he could not play in the school band because he was
blind.  I would have thought that even the dumbest professor in the world
could have gotten this right simply because of Ray Charles and Stevie
Wonder.  I recall a law school dean at the University of Alaska stating that
a blind applicant could not be admitted because blind people can not be
lawyers.  

Another of my professors was Robert Hofstadter.  He had a Nobel prize in
Physics.  I approached him near the midterm, and asked him if we could
arrange for someone to read the midterm to me.  He immediately responded,
Well why don't you come to my office the morning of the test and I will read
it to you, which he did.  I have read of professors who now shoot their
exams over to the disability services office to be read aloud by someone
completely unable to read aloud.  The professor can't be bothered today.
When we finished Professor Hofstadter said that he wished he could do this
with every student because he would then really know what students did and
didn't understand and he would then know what he needed to spend additional
time on in lectures.  

There was no disabled students office to function as an obstacle between my
professors and me.  There was no disabled students office which had the
responsibility to provide me with Braille or readers or anything else, and
this was a plus not a minus because today these offices frequently fall down
on the job and the student is left completely holding the bag.  No business
would rely on a vendor which comes through only 60 or 70 per cent of the
time, particularly when the business has no power over the vendor.  This is
a formula for disaster and no sensible manager would do this yet blind
students are now forced into this situation all the time.  Because of this
lack of accountability by disabled students offices I have recently read a
discussion where a blind student is asking how he can handle a college math
class using readers because he doesn't have a Braille math book.  No sighted
student would be expected to do college math without a print book and they
can see the board.  During the past 20 years I am confident that we have
spent tens of millions of dollars on disability student offices and the
students now have less than we had in the 70's without all this money having
been spent.  Why?

I  would argue that we as lawyers need to rethink our current situation and
get a handle on the legal twists and turns that brought us here.  My
thinking is that we should begin by revisiting Plessy v. Ferguson an the 2
law school cases which overturned Plessy.  The Supreme Court decided that
separate but equal can never actually be equal, so Plessy was done away
with.  

However, almost all the law which governs our lives, rights and
opportunities as blind people is openly based on the notion that separate
but unequal treatment for us is acceptable.  We actually spend most of our
time as blind people asking for separate but unequal treatment as an
accommodation.  Women, blacks, and gays do not do this.  They are clear that
separate is always unequal and they are having none of it.  

Consider this.  When I was in law school an issue arose concerning women law
school students.  For some reason there is a shower in one of the men's
restrooms at the University of Chicago Law School.  The law school was built
in the 50's before there were many if any women law students.  There are
certainly women's restrooms, but none with a shower.  

Men and women alike have taken in recent years to exercising while at school
and some of them wish to shower after they run or exercise.  This is not a
problem for men since there is a shower, but what can women do?  It was
initially proposed that women could go over to the main campus to the gym
and shower there.  This is about 4 blocks from the law school across the
midway.  This was a no go as far as women were concerned.  They asked why
should they have to go a total of 8 blocks round trip to shower when men
could shower without leaving the law school?  At first the administration
argued that since women needed to shower because they were already
exercising then why wouldn't they be willing to go across campus since a
little additional exercise was all that was being proposed?  However, the
universal consensus of men and women alike based on common sense and basic
fairness was that this was not acceptable.  It was viewed as pretty much
obvious that it would be unfair to expect women to have to do more than men
when they engaged in the same activity as men.  I dare say that those
reading this would probably agree and I'm asking you to keep on that same
fairness hat when you consider the following question.

Why is it fair for a blind person to have to take twice as long on an exam
as a sighted person in order to obtain an equivalent valid score?  My claim
is that it is not fair and women would not put up with it for a second.
Women would tell you to figure out how to do it with out them taking on any
burden which is greater than that of men.  They would be right.  As a matter
of testing science and methodology it is possible to create an exam which
blind people could take in the same length of time which would be equally
valid, but it is not being done because we have permitted them to dump the
burden of accommodation on us rather than requiring them to spend more money
validating their standardized tests.  

Would a professional quarterback ever be expected to play football in an
important game with a center that he has never had the opportunity to
practice with?  No.  This would be regarded as absurd and totally unfair.
Yet we are expected to work with readers on exams that our entire futures
and jobs are dependent upon; with readers who we've never met, tested or
practiced with and who often can not even read English aloud accurately.
Women would not put up with this.  Blacks would not put up with this.  We
do, and the reason we do is that we feel powerless to do anything about it.
We have come to think like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire, that we must
depend on the kindness of strangers.  

I worked for 5 years for a very large law firm, and we never ourselves, nor
did we ever advise our clients to depend on the kindness of the other side.
The parties on the other side wanted to win because they wanted their own
way, and our clients also wanted to win because they wanted their own way.
There was no kindness on either side and that is how it should be in matters
of law.  As lawyers it is our mandated responsibility to zealously represent
our clients which means it is our job to fight them with everything we have
to make certain that our clients win.  That's what lawyers do.  We are
privileged to be lawyers.  We have one power that no one else has.  As all
non lawyers must acknowledge, you can write thousands of letters to someone
trying to get them to talk with you and they can throw them in the trash.
You can light up their switchboard all day long with phone calls and they
can tell the operator to say that they are not in.  However, we as lawyers
have the power to force them to talk with us simply by serving a complaint
on them and they will definitely talk with us in front of a judge.  They
will not ignore that.

I'm sure I have offended some, bored most, and confused others.  But if you
are a lawyer and I have struck a chord with you and reawakened for a moment
a memory of why you went to law school to begin with, please contact me.  We
have the knowledge and the power to make real change for blind people if we
choose to come together like the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith.
Thanks for reading and I hope to talk with you.

Warmest regards,
Dennis
_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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il.com



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 18:18:55 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:18:55 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>
Message-ID: <FEDC3F54008F40B8B6A3C38C7274124A@Rufus>

Steve,

I think you make a compelling argument.  That said, it seems most states do
not bother to make proper investments in their state facilities.  Should a
person who is banking on one of these rehabilitation centers to enhance
their self-sufficiency be punished for the state's lack of effort or
interest?  I chose not to attend an NFB center.  Yet it seems that more
often than not people who do attend can show a good return on a state's
investment.

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 10:40 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of 
the local NFB
> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about 
blindness.  There
> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>
> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're 
not.  They 
> are
> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>
> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that 
institution, then
> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> You want blind individuals from those states having a 
blindness center,
> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers 
at those 
> same
> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally 
possible..  If the
> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay 
the way with
> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the 
limit.  States
> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend 
NFB centers.
> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a 
consumer to
> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants 
to attend a
> private college, they need to pay the difference or get 
scholarships to
> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to 
pay.  Usually,
> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state 
> institutions.
>
> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you 
must make up
> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB 
> center
> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain 
to them in
>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really 
not going to
>> do
>> much.
>>
>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  
Tell them why
>> it
>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea 
why things do
>> not
>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state 
agency does 
>>> not
>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab 
centers such as 
>>> the
>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>> things
>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>
>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>> 1237 P Street
>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>> 559-266-9237
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>> agencies
>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend 
>>>> National
>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should 
be fully paid
>>>> for
>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is 
that is being
>>>> experienced?
>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> marc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of 
South Florida
>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>> little
>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more 
effective to use a
>>>> system
>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to 
members of
>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>> consultant
>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>> consumers
>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend 
facilities of
>>>> their
>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other 
>>>> legislation
>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
> 
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitat
ion-act-1973
> /
>>>>>     Quick
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm
an%40sbcglob
> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin
%40pobox.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm
an%40sbcglob
> al.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>>
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205
%40gmail.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep
.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
> 
----------------------------------------------------------------
------------
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date: 
> 01/11/10
> 07:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv
erse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep
.deeley%40insightbb.com


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Date: 01/12/10 
07:35:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz
co%40gmail.com
 

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From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Tue Jan 12 18:21:32 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:21:32 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>
	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>
	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>
	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>
	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com>
	<1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>
	<13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>
Message-ID: <A667A0911D7646AF8E170E50D3519337@StevePC>

If a person wants to attend a center outside of their state where there is 
already a blindness center, the state in question should not have to pay for 
the client to attend.  Voc Rehab budgets are stretched to the limit; there 
is no money for such out of state training.  Unless you can pay your own way 
or NFB assists, the state can't aford this expense and still leave funding 
for all other consumers and their needs!!

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>
> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is no
> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local 
>> NFB
>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness. 
>> There
>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>
>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>> are
>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>
>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>> same
>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If 
>> the
>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way 
>> with
>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>> institutions.
>>
>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make 
>> up
>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>> center
>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going 
>>> to
>>> do
>>> much.
>>>
>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them why
>>> it
>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>>> not
>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>> not
>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>> the
>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>> things
>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>> agencies
>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>> National
>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid
>>>>> for
>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>> experienced?
>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> marc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>> little
>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>> system
>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>> consultant
>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>> consumers
>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>>> their
>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>> legislation
>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>> /
>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>> 01/11/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 
> 01/12/10
> 07:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 01/12/10 
07:35:00



From lists at zufelt.ca  Tue Jan 12 18:32:53 2010
From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:32:53 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <FEDC3F54008F40B8B6A3C38C7274124A@Rufus>
References: <FEDC3F54008F40B8B6A3C38C7274124A@Rufus>
Message-ID: <58D0BF78-4F64-4645-A033-06C5A722516F@zufelt.ca>

Good afternoon,

As this is off topic I'd love to hear responses privately.

As I live in Canada, where rehab centres for the blind are practically  
non-existent, I am curious to hear from those who have attended to get  
and understanding of the benefit such training centres can provide.

Thanks,
Everett

Follow me on Twitter
http://twitter.com/ezufelt

View my LinkedIn Profile
http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt



On 12-Jan-10, at 1:18 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:

> Steve,
>
> I think you make a compelling argument.  That said, it seems most  
> states do
> not bother to make proper investments in their state facilities.   
> Should a
> person who is banking on one of these rehabilitation centers to  
> enhance
> their self-sufficiency be punished for the state's lack of effort or
> interest?  I chose not to attend an NFB center.  Yet it seems that  
> more
> often than not people who do attend can show a good return on a  
> state's
> investment.
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 10:40 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of
> the local NFB
>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about
> blindness.  There
>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>
>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're
> not.  They
>> are
>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>
>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that
> institution, then
>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> You want blind individuals from those states having a
> blindness center,
>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers
> at those
>> same
>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally
> possible..  If the
>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place  
>> to
>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay
> the way with
>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the
> limit.  States
>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend
> NFB centers.
>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is  
>> like
>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a
> consumer to
>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants
> to attend a
>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get
> scholarships to
>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to
> pay.  Usually,
>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>> institutions.
>>
>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you
> must make up
>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>> center
>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain
> to them in
>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really
> not going to
>>> do
>>> much.
>>>
>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.
> Tell them why
>>> it
>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea
> why things do
>>> not
>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state
> agency does
>>>> not
>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab
> centers such as
>>>> the
>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and  
>>>> other
>>>> things
>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>> agencies
>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>> National
>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should
> be fully paid
>>>>> for
>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is
> that is being
>>>>> experienced?
>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training  
>>>>> Centers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> marc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of
> South Florida
>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this  
>>>>> have
>>>>> little
>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more
> effective to use a
>>>>> system
>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to
> members of
>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>> consultant
>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>> consumers
>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend
> facilities of
>>>>> their
>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>> legislation
>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitat
> ion-act-1973
>> /
>>>>>>    Quick
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
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>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
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> an%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin
> %40pobox.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
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>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
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>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm
> an%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
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> %40gmail.com
>>>>
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
>>> for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep
> .deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
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From t.l.cantrell at comcast.net  Tue Jan 12 18:36:01 2010
From: t.l.cantrell at comcast.net (tammy cantrell)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:36:01 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
References: <006701ca9331$3822b640$6601a8c0@server>
	<13ff01ca93ab$a736d640$f5a482c0$@com>
Message-ID: <00d501ca93b6$17f9d3a0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>

Once you overcome financial and transportation limitations of the blind 
community, you might resolve the hermit syndrome.  You will have to address 
the attitude of depending on others fighting battles for you too.  Just my 
two cents worth.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys


>I think all that you've suggested is really great.  I absolutely agree with
> the latter part of your e-mail.  It doesn't matter how much litigation is
> put forth if there is no fervor within the blind and visual impaired
> community.  Every example you gave was based upon a great demand within 
> each
> community.
>
> The question is, how do we get everyone more involved?
>
> Sometimes it seems as though many blind individuals, at least here where I
> am, tend to be sort of hermit like.  What do we do about that?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Dennis Clark
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:45 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
>
> If you are a blind lawyer or second or third year law student please read
> on.  We are privileged to be lawyers and this is an appeal for you to join
> with me to begin formulating a long term legal strategy which will enable 
> us
> as blind people to make the same kind of progress in kind and degree as
> other minority groups have made during the past 60 years.  This will 
> involve
> each of us becoming experts on the legal histories of women, blacks, and
> gays, to understand the seminal cases and legislation which has led to 
> their
> progress, and to develop a well thought out, cohesive legal theory for 
> blind
> civil rights which uses the issues and cases of these other groups as
> precedent or persuasive support for our own analogous legal claims.
>
> When I was in law school I was fortunate to get to know one of the 
> attorneys
> who worked on the Jackie Robinson law suit which integrated professional
> baseball.  He was a celebrated law professor and lawyer who participated 
> in
> this law suit as a volunteer civil rights lawyer for B'nai B'rith.  Most 
> of
> the successful civil rights cases which have led to the equality that 
> blacks
> benefit from today were fought by the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai
> B'rith both together and separately.  Thurgood Marshal was also a critical
> global thinker and player with the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and it was 
> those
> successes which led President Johnson to appoint him to the Supreme Court.
>
> My professor told me that the Jackie Robinson case was planned long before
> Jackie Robinson himself was identified as the best plaintiff for the case.
> In the 40's and 50's a group of very brilliant lawyers and law professors
> talked and met together frequently to create a long term legal strategy
> which could shape and reorient the law to achieve civil rights progress 
> for
> both blacks and Jews.  They carefully decided which cases needed to be
> brought ahead of other cases because obviously some cases will become
> seminal and have a larger impact on society than others.
>
> The decision to challenge professional baseballs prohibition against black
> players was one of these key strategic decisions.  Once it was decided to
> file this important case, they set out to find the right player to be the
> plaintiff.  He said that they knew they needed a player who was perfect in
> every way.  The player would need to be a great hitter and be pretty much
> qualified to play every other position on the field at a professional 
> level.
> The key was to have a player who was so unbelievable in every way so that
> any argument which could be made against hiring such a black player would 
> be
> clearly irrational, and as such based purely on racial prejudice.  Beyond
> this, he said that they needed a player who could emotionally withstand 
> the
> abuse which would be aimed at him by players and fans once the case was 
> won
> and he was hired.  He was going to be the target of much hatred, he would
> not be permitted to stay in hotels with the rest of the team in many 
> cities,
> he could not eat in the same restaurants as the rest of the team in many
> cities, and his life really could be at risk.  It was undeniable that this
> was going to take a very special person and they waited quite a while to
> file the suit until they found jus that right person, and that man was
> Jackie Robinson.
>
> The main point here is that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith
> didn't simply file cases willie nillie, but rather they chose cases
> carefully so as to move the courts along slowly but surely.  Filing a
> dubious case where there is a fifty fifty chance of losing would have been
> understood as potentially counter-productive.  Clearly if we as blind 
> people
> win a case we have a precedent in our favor, but if we lose a case this is 
> a
> setback because we have created a precedent that is contrary to our civil
> rights progress.
>
> I am confident that I will be attacked for this, but I believe that we 
> have
> steadily lost ground over the past 30 years in both education and
> employment.  Obviously today's young blind adults can not know this 
> because
> as is true for all people, our reality is shaped mostly by what we are
> experiencing.  Moreover there is a human prejudice that today must always 
> be
> better than yesterday.
>
> but my claim is that those of us who were teenagers and young adults in 
> the
> 60's and 70's had more opportunities than similarly situated blind people
> today.  When I took the PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE LSAT, and 4 bar exams, I was
> given fair exams by competent readers.  To have done less than this in 
> those
> days would have been regarded as unthinkable and absurd by the agencies
> providing these tests because it would have been thought as simply unfair.
> Today one is lucky if the reader provided by any of these agencies is 
> barely
> literate.
>
> For me most of these exams predated the ADA and my claim is that the ADA 
> is
> the problem.  I have dealt with a number of these agencies on behalf of
> disabled clients who have come to me for help, and I can tell you that the
> agencies think the ADA empowers them to simply give blind people a reader 
> of
> the agencies choosing.  On numerous occasions I have been told by
> representatives of these agencies that all they are required to do is
> provide a reader of their choosing.  I point out that the ADA says
> "qualified reader," not just a reader.  Inevitably they then claim that 
> all
> their readers are qualified even though they can not articulate what steps
> they have taken to verify this to be true.  Further discussion usually
> results in a very smug acknowledgement that they hold all the power and if
> we think we can do something about it then go ahead.  They are right.  We
> have become powerless, but that can change if those of us with law school
> educations come together and force a change.
>
> I would be curious to know how many blind students there are today at the 
> 5
> top ranked engineering schools in the U.S.  My guess is zero, but I hope I
> am wrong about this.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were a number of
> us.  I attended Stanford in Mechanical Engineering from 1977 to 1981 and 
> all
> of my materials were provided to me in Braille including thousands of 
> raised
> line drawings, and without these materials it would have been impossible 
> for
> me to do the program.  One of my engineering professors was a retired
> Admiral from the Navy and one day he asked me if an optacon would be 
> useful
> to me and if I would like one?  I told him that I had a little experience
> with it, but they cost $5000 and I wasn't sure that I could afford it or
> that it would be useful enough to justify the cost.  He had an interesting
> response.  He said, Dennis first of all Stanford is rich so they can 
> afford
> it.  Second, he said, "Stanford admitted you and it is Stanford's
> responsibility to provide you what ever resources you need to be
> successful."  Has anyone heard any professors today say anything like 
> this?
> I think not.  On these forums I have read of a blind college student being
> told by a professor that he could not play in the school band because he 
> was
> blind.  I would have thought that even the dumbest professor in the world
> could have gotten this right simply because of Ray Charles and Stevie
> Wonder.  I recall a law school dean at the University of Alaska stating 
> that
> a blind applicant could not be admitted because blind people can not be
> lawyers.
>
> Another of my professors was Robert Hofstadter.  He had a Nobel prize in
> Physics.  I approached him near the midterm, and asked him if we could
> arrange for someone to read the midterm to me.  He immediately responded,
> Well why don't you come to my office the morning of the test and I will 
> read
> it to you, which he did.  I have read of professors who now shoot their
> exams over to the disability services office to be read aloud by someone
> completely unable to read aloud.  The professor can't be bothered today.
> When we finished Professor Hofstadter said that he wished he could do this
> with every student because he would then really know what students did and
> didn't understand and he would then know what he needed to spend 
> additional
> time on in lectures.
>
> There was no disabled students office to function as an obstacle between 
> my
> professors and me.  There was no disabled students office which had the
> responsibility to provide me with Braille or readers or anything else, and
> this was a plus not a minus because today these offices frequently fall 
> down
> on the job and the student is left completely holding the bag.  No 
> business
> would rely on a vendor which comes through only 60 or 70 per cent of the
> time, particularly when the business has no power over the vendor.  This 
> is
> a formula for disaster and no sensible manager would do this yet blind
> students are now forced into this situation all the time.  Because of this
> lack of accountability by disabled students offices I have recently read a
> discussion where a blind student is asking how he can handle a college 
> math
> class using readers because he doesn't have a Braille math book.  No 
> sighted
> student would be expected to do college math without a print book and they
> can see the board.  During the past 20 years I am confident that we have
> spent tens of millions of dollars on disability student offices and the
> students now have less than we had in the 70's without all this money 
> having
> been spent.  Why?
>
> I  would argue that we as lawyers need to rethink our current situation 
> and
> get a handle on the legal twists and turns that brought us here.  My
> thinking is that we should begin by revisiting Plessy v. Ferguson an the 2
> law school cases which overturned Plessy.  The Supreme Court decided that
> separate but equal can never actually be equal, so Plessy was done away
> with.
>
> However, almost all the law which governs our lives, rights and
> opportunities as blind people is openly based on the notion that separate
> but unequal treatment for us is acceptable.  We actually spend most of our
> time as blind people asking for separate but unequal treatment as an
> accommodation.  Women, blacks, and gays do not do this.  They are clear 
> that
> separate is always unequal and they are having none of it.
>
> Consider this.  When I was in law school an issue arose concerning women 
> law
> school students.  For some reason there is a shower in one of the men's
> restrooms at the University of Chicago Law School.  The law school was 
> built
> in the 50's before there were many if any women law students.  There are
> certainly women's restrooms, but none with a shower.
>
> Men and women alike have taken in recent years to exercising while at 
> school
> and some of them wish to shower after they run or exercise.  This is not a
> problem for men since there is a shower, but what can women do?  It was
> initially proposed that women could go over to the main campus to the gym
> and shower there.  This is about 4 blocks from the law school across the
> midway.  This was a no go as far as women were concerned.  They asked why
> should they have to go a total of 8 blocks round trip to shower when men
> could shower without leaving the law school?  At first the administration
> argued that since women needed to shower because they were already
> exercising then why wouldn't they be willing to go across campus since a
> little additional exercise was all that was being proposed?  However, the
> universal consensus of men and women alike based on common sense and basic
> fairness was that this was not acceptable.  It was viewed as pretty much
> obvious that it would be unfair to expect women to have to do more than 
> men
> when they engaged in the same activity as men.  I dare say that those
> reading this would probably agree and I'm asking you to keep on that same
> fairness hat when you consider the following question.
>
> Why is it fair for a blind person to have to take twice as long on an exam
> as a sighted person in order to obtain an equivalent valid score?  My 
> claim
> is that it is not fair and women would not put up with it for a second.
> Women would tell you to figure out how to do it with out them taking on 
> any
> burden which is greater than that of men.  They would be right.  As a 
> matter
> of testing science and methodology it is possible to create an exam which
> blind people could take in the same length of time which would be equally
> valid, but it is not being done because we have permitted them to dump the
> burden of accommodation on us rather than requiring them to spend more 
> money
> validating their standardized tests.
>
> Would a professional quarterback ever be expected to play football in an
> important game with a center that he has never had the opportunity to
> practice with?  No.  This would be regarded as absurd and totally unfair.
> Yet we are expected to work with readers on exams that our entire futures
> and jobs are dependent upon; with readers who we've never met, tested or
> practiced with and who often can not even read English aloud accurately.
> Women would not put up with this.  Blacks would not put up with this.  We
> do, and the reason we do is that we feel powerless to do anything about 
> it.
> We have come to think like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire, that we 
> must
> depend on the kindness of strangers.
>
> I worked for 5 years for a very large law firm, and we never ourselves, 
> nor
> did we ever advise our clients to depend on the kindness of the other 
> side.
> The parties on the other side wanted to win because they wanted their own
> way, and our clients also wanted to win because they wanted their own way.
> There was no kindness on either side and that is how it should be in 
> matters
> of law.  As lawyers it is our mandated responsibility to zealously 
> represent
> our clients which means it is our job to fight them with everything we 
> have
> to make certain that our clients win.  That's what lawyers do.  We are
> privileged to be lawyers.  We have one power that no one else has.  As all
> non lawyers must acknowledge, you can write thousands of letters to 
> someone
> trying to get them to talk with you and they can throw them in the trash.
> You can light up their switchboard all day long with phone calls and they
> can tell the operator to say that they are not in.  However, we as lawyers
> have the power to force them to talk with us simply by serving a complaint
> on them and they will definitely talk with us in front of a judge.  They
> will not ignore that.
>
> I'm sure I have offended some, bored most, and confused others.  But if 
> you
> are a lawyer and I have struck a chord with you and reawakened for a 
> moment
> a memory of why you went to law school to begin with, please contact me. 
> We
> have the knowledge and the power to make real change for blind people if 
> we
> choose to come together like the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai 
> B'rith.
> Thanks for reading and I hope to talk with you.
>
> Warmest regards,
> Dennis
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
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From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 18:38:18 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:38:18 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <A667A0911D7646AF8E170E50D3519337@StevePC>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com>	<1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>	<13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>
	<A667A0911D7646AF8E170E50D3519337@StevePC>
Message-ID: <142401ca93b6$699342f0$3cb9c8d0$@com>

So a person who lives in a state that does not have a NFB center should have
to pay their own way to one of these facilities?  Last time I checked, if a
person is at the stage that they need to go to one of these, they are
probably at the beginning of their blindness.  Therefore they are not
working and have no money.  This was my situation.  Fortunately, I didn't
have to go to a facility because I had a great support system.  But there
are those who need the service.  I'm not sure whether the costs are
different for the various centers...but it seems to me if NFB won't do
anything to assist a person, then they probably aren't truly about educating
the blind to live independently...And I still say that states need to
prioritize or else there will be a lot of blind people not able to work,
live alone etc.

Again, I understand what you're saying but I don't think our two ideas
should be independent of one another.  If any state government isn't able to
reorient in times of recession, the people of that state need to elect some
new people.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:22 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

If a person wants to attend a center outside of their state where there is 
already a blindness center, the state in question should not have to pay for

the client to attend.  Voc Rehab budgets are stretched to the limit; there 
is no money for such out of state training.  Unless you can pay your own way

or NFB assists, the state can't aford this expense and still leave funding 
for all other consumers and their needs!!

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>
> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is no
> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local 
>> NFB
>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness. 
>> There
>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>
>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>> are
>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>
>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>> same
>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If 
>> the
>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way 
>> with
>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>> institutions.
>>
>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make 
>> up
>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>> center
>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going 
>>> to
>>> do
>>> much.
>>>
>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them why
>>> it
>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>>> not
>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>> not
>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>> the
>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>> things
>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>> agencies
>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>> National
>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid
>>>>> for
>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>> experienced?
>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> marc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>> little
>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>> system
>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>> consultant
>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>> consumers
>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>>> their
>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>> legislation
>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
>
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>> /
>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
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>>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
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>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
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From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 19:05:10 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:05:10 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
In-Reply-To: <00d501ca93b6$17f9d3a0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
References: <006701ca9331$3822b640$6601a8c0@server>	<13ff01ca93ab$a736d640$f5a482c0$@com>
	<00d501ca93b6$17f9d3a0$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3>
Message-ID: <143901ca93ba$2ab5d440$80217cc0$@com>

I agree...the hermit syndrome I was talking about is the isolation that
comes at the onset of blindness.  We've got to find a way to deal with that
too.  Whether it be some type of mentoring program or the like.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of tammy cantrell
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:36 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys

Once you overcome financial and transportation limitations of the blind 
community, you might resolve the hermit syndrome.  You will have to address 
the attitude of depending on others fighting battles for you too.  Just my 
two cents worth.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys


>I think all that you've suggested is really great.  I absolutely agree with
> the latter part of your e-mail.  It doesn't matter how much litigation is
> put forth if there is no fervor within the blind and visual impaired
> community.  Every example you gave was based upon a great demand within 
> each
> community.
>
> The question is, how do we get everyone more involved?
>
> Sometimes it seems as though many blind individuals, at least here where I
> am, tend to be sort of hermit like.  What do we do about that?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Dennis Clark
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:45 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
>
> If you are a blind lawyer or second or third year law student please read
> on.  We are privileged to be lawyers and this is an appeal for you to join
> with me to begin formulating a long term legal strategy which will enable 
> us
> as blind people to make the same kind of progress in kind and degree as
> other minority groups have made during the past 60 years.  This will 
> involve
> each of us becoming experts on the legal histories of women, blacks, and
> gays, to understand the seminal cases and legislation which has led to 
> their
> progress, and to develop a well thought out, cohesive legal theory for 
> blind
> civil rights which uses the issues and cases of these other groups as
> precedent or persuasive support for our own analogous legal claims.
>
> When I was in law school I was fortunate to get to know one of the 
> attorneys
> who worked on the Jackie Robinson law suit which integrated professional
> baseball.  He was a celebrated law professor and lawyer who participated 
> in
> this law suit as a volunteer civil rights lawyer for B'nai B'rith.  Most 
> of
> the successful civil rights cases which have led to the equality that 
> blacks
> benefit from today were fought by the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai
> B'rith both together and separately.  Thurgood Marshal was also a critical
> global thinker and player with the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and it was 
> those
> successes which led President Johnson to appoint him to the Supreme Court.
>
> My professor told me that the Jackie Robinson case was planned long before
> Jackie Robinson himself was identified as the best plaintiff for the case.
> In the 40's and 50's a group of very brilliant lawyers and law professors
> talked and met together frequently to create a long term legal strategy
> which could shape and reorient the law to achieve civil rights progress 
> for
> both blacks and Jews.  They carefully decided which cases needed to be
> brought ahead of other cases because obviously some cases will become
> seminal and have a larger impact on society than others.
>
> The decision to challenge professional baseballs prohibition against black
> players was one of these key strategic decisions.  Once it was decided to
> file this important case, they set out to find the right player to be the
> plaintiff.  He said that they knew they needed a player who was perfect in
> every way.  The player would need to be a great hitter and be pretty much
> qualified to play every other position on the field at a professional 
> level.
> The key was to have a player who was so unbelievable in every way so that
> any argument which could be made against hiring such a black player would 
> be
> clearly irrational, and as such based purely on racial prejudice.  Beyond
> this, he said that they needed a player who could emotionally withstand 
> the
> abuse which would be aimed at him by players and fans once the case was 
> won
> and he was hired.  He was going to be the target of much hatred, he would
> not be permitted to stay in hotels with the rest of the team in many 
> cities,
> he could not eat in the same restaurants as the rest of the team in many
> cities, and his life really could be at risk.  It was undeniable that this
> was going to take a very special person and they waited quite a while to
> file the suit until they found jus that right person, and that man was
> Jackie Robinson.
>
> The main point here is that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith
> didn't simply file cases willie nillie, but rather they chose cases
> carefully so as to move the courts along slowly but surely.  Filing a
> dubious case where there is a fifty fifty chance of losing would have been
> understood as potentially counter-productive.  Clearly if we as blind 
> people
> win a case we have a precedent in our favor, but if we lose a case this is

> a
> setback because we have created a precedent that is contrary to our civil
> rights progress.
>
> I am confident that I will be attacked for this, but I believe that we 
> have
> steadily lost ground over the past 30 years in both education and
> employment.  Obviously today's young blind adults can not know this 
> because
> as is true for all people, our reality is shaped mostly by what we are
> experiencing.  Moreover there is a human prejudice that today must always 
> be
> better than yesterday.
>
> but my claim is that those of us who were teenagers and young adults in 
> the
> 60's and 70's had more opportunities than similarly situated blind people
> today.  When I took the PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE LSAT, and 4 bar exams, I was
> given fair exams by competent readers.  To have done less than this in 
> those
> days would have been regarded as unthinkable and absurd by the agencies
> providing these tests because it would have been thought as simply unfair.
> Today one is lucky if the reader provided by any of these agencies is 
> barely
> literate.
>
> For me most of these exams predated the ADA and my claim is that the ADA 
> is
> the problem.  I have dealt with a number of these agencies on behalf of
> disabled clients who have come to me for help, and I can tell you that the
> agencies think the ADA empowers them to simply give blind people a reader 
> of
> the agencies choosing.  On numerous occasions I have been told by
> representatives of these agencies that all they are required to do is
> provide a reader of their choosing.  I point out that the ADA says
> "qualified reader," not just a reader.  Inevitably they then claim that 
> all
> their readers are qualified even though they can not articulate what steps
> they have taken to verify this to be true.  Further discussion usually
> results in a very smug acknowledgement that they hold all the power and if
> we think we can do something about it then go ahead.  They are right.  We
> have become powerless, but that can change if those of us with law school
> educations come together and force a change.
>
> I would be curious to know how many blind students there are today at the 
> 5
> top ranked engineering schools in the U.S.  My guess is zero, but I hope I
> am wrong about this.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were a number of
> us.  I attended Stanford in Mechanical Engineering from 1977 to 1981 and 
> all
> of my materials were provided to me in Braille including thousands of 
> raised
> line drawings, and without these materials it would have been impossible 
> for
> me to do the program.  One of my engineering professors was a retired
> Admiral from the Navy and one day he asked me if an optacon would be 
> useful
> to me and if I would like one?  I told him that I had a little experience
> with it, but they cost $5000 and I wasn't sure that I could afford it or
> that it would be useful enough to justify the cost.  He had an interesting
> response.  He said, Dennis first of all Stanford is rich so they can 
> afford
> it.  Second, he said, "Stanford admitted you and it is Stanford's
> responsibility to provide you what ever resources you need to be
> successful."  Has anyone heard any professors today say anything like 
> this?
> I think not.  On these forums I have read of a blind college student being
> told by a professor that he could not play in the school band because he 
> was
> blind.  I would have thought that even the dumbest professor in the world
> could have gotten this right simply because of Ray Charles and Stevie
> Wonder.  I recall a law school dean at the University of Alaska stating 
> that
> a blind applicant could not be admitted because blind people can not be
> lawyers.
>
> Another of my professors was Robert Hofstadter.  He had a Nobel prize in
> Physics.  I approached him near the midterm, and asked him if we could
> arrange for someone to read the midterm to me.  He immediately responded,
> Well why don't you come to my office the morning of the test and I will 
> read
> it to you, which he did.  I have read of professors who now shoot their
> exams over to the disability services office to be read aloud by someone
> completely unable to read aloud.  The professor can't be bothered today.
> When we finished Professor Hofstadter said that he wished he could do this
> with every student because he would then really know what students did and
> didn't understand and he would then know what he needed to spend 
> additional
> time on in lectures.
>
> There was no disabled students office to function as an obstacle between 
> my
> professors and me.  There was no disabled students office which had the
> responsibility to provide me with Braille or readers or anything else, and
> this was a plus not a minus because today these offices frequently fall 
> down
> on the job and the student is left completely holding the bag.  No 
> business
> would rely on a vendor which comes through only 60 or 70 per cent of the
> time, particularly when the business has no power over the vendor.  This 
> is
> a formula for disaster and no sensible manager would do this yet blind
> students are now forced into this situation all the time.  Because of this
> lack of accountability by disabled students offices I have recently read a
> discussion where a blind student is asking how he can handle a college 
> math
> class using readers because he doesn't have a Braille math book.  No 
> sighted
> student would be expected to do college math without a print book and they
> can see the board.  During the past 20 years I am confident that we have
> spent tens of millions of dollars on disability student offices and the
> students now have less than we had in the 70's without all this money 
> having
> been spent.  Why?
>
> I  would argue that we as lawyers need to rethink our current situation 
> and
> get a handle on the legal twists and turns that brought us here.  My
> thinking is that we should begin by revisiting Plessy v. Ferguson an the 2
> law school cases which overturned Plessy.  The Supreme Court decided that
> separate but equal can never actually be equal, so Plessy was done away
> with.
>
> However, almost all the law which governs our lives, rights and
> opportunities as blind people is openly based on the notion that separate
> but unequal treatment for us is acceptable.  We actually spend most of our
> time as blind people asking for separate but unequal treatment as an
> accommodation.  Women, blacks, and gays do not do this.  They are clear 
> that
> separate is always unequal and they are having none of it.
>
> Consider this.  When I was in law school an issue arose concerning women 
> law
> school students.  For some reason there is a shower in one of the men's
> restrooms at the University of Chicago Law School.  The law school was 
> built
> in the 50's before there were many if any women law students.  There are
> certainly women's restrooms, but none with a shower.
>
> Men and women alike have taken in recent years to exercising while at 
> school
> and some of them wish to shower after they run or exercise.  This is not a
> problem for men since there is a shower, but what can women do?  It was
> initially proposed that women could go over to the main campus to the gym
> and shower there.  This is about 4 blocks from the law school across the
> midway.  This was a no go as far as women were concerned.  They asked why
> should they have to go a total of 8 blocks round trip to shower when men
> could shower without leaving the law school?  At first the administration
> argued that since women needed to shower because they were already
> exercising then why wouldn't they be willing to go across campus since a
> little additional exercise was all that was being proposed?  However, the
> universal consensus of men and women alike based on common sense and basic
> fairness was that this was not acceptable.  It was viewed as pretty much
> obvious that it would be unfair to expect women to have to do more than 
> men
> when they engaged in the same activity as men.  I dare say that those
> reading this would probably agree and I'm asking you to keep on that same
> fairness hat when you consider the following question.
>
> Why is it fair for a blind person to have to take twice as long on an exam
> as a sighted person in order to obtain an equivalent valid score?  My 
> claim
> is that it is not fair and women would not put up with it for a second.
> Women would tell you to figure out how to do it with out them taking on 
> any
> burden which is greater than that of men.  They would be right.  As a 
> matter
> of testing science and methodology it is possible to create an exam which
> blind people could take in the same length of time which would be equally
> valid, but it is not being done because we have permitted them to dump the
> burden of accommodation on us rather than requiring them to spend more 
> money
> validating their standardized tests.
>
> Would a professional quarterback ever be expected to play football in an
> important game with a center that he has never had the opportunity to
> practice with?  No.  This would be regarded as absurd and totally unfair.
> Yet we are expected to work with readers on exams that our entire futures
> and jobs are dependent upon; with readers who we've never met, tested or
> practiced with and who often can not even read English aloud accurately.
> Women would not put up with this.  Blacks would not put up with this.  We
> do, and the reason we do is that we feel powerless to do anything about 
> it.
> We have come to think like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire, that we 
> must
> depend on the kindness of strangers.
>
> I worked for 5 years for a very large law firm, and we never ourselves, 
> nor
> did we ever advise our clients to depend on the kindness of the other 
> side.
> The parties on the other side wanted to win because they wanted their own
> way, and our clients also wanted to win because they wanted their own way.
> There was no kindness on either side and that is how it should be in 
> matters
> of law.  As lawyers it is our mandated responsibility to zealously 
> represent
> our clients which means it is our job to fight them with everything we 
> have
> to make certain that our clients win.  That's what lawyers do.  We are
> privileged to be lawyers.  We have one power that no one else has.  As all
> non lawyers must acknowledge, you can write thousands of letters to 
> someone
> trying to get them to talk with you and they can throw them in the trash.
> You can light up their switchboard all day long with phone calls and they
> can tell the operator to say that they are not in.  However, we as lawyers
> have the power to force them to talk with us simply by serving a complaint
> on them and they will definitely talk with us in front of a judge.  They
> will not ignore that.
>
> I'm sure I have offended some, bored most, and confused others.  But if 
> you
> are a lawyer and I have struck a chord with you and reawakened for a 
> moment
> a memory of why you went to law school to begin with, please contact me. 
> We
> have the knowledge and the power to make real change for blind people if 
> we
> choose to come together like the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai 
> B'rith.
> Thanks for reading and I hope to talk with you.
>
> Warmest regards,
> Dennis
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> blindlaw:
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cast.net 


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From Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV  Tue Jan 12 19:51:12 2010
From: Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV (Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR))
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:51:12 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Jobs In the Office of the General Counsel, HHS
Message-ID: <9CDA99CD650C5544ACEADDB63CCD70D1016DFC06@AVN3VS032.ees.hhs.gov>

FYI.

 

Subject: OGC Vacancy Announcements: GS-15 Deputy Chief Counsels and SES
Deputy Associate General Counsel for Public Health - IHS Branch (Wash,
DC) 

 

Please note that OGC is hiring for management positions in Washington,
D.C. (SES), Atlanta (GS-15), Dallas (GS-15), and San Francisco (GS-15).
If you know

any attorneys who might be interested in applying, please forward the
link to the job announcements.

 

Thanks! 

 

The vacancy announcement for two GS-15 Deputy Chief Counsel positions in
each of the following Regional Offices:  Region IV-Atlanta, Region
VI-Dallas, and

Region IX-San Francisco has been posted on the USAJOBS website.  The
deadline for receipt of applications is Wednesday, February 17, 2010.
The link is

below:

 

http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85538846&JobTitle=Deputy+Ch
ief+Counsel&q=OS-2010-0002&sort=rv%2c-dtex&vw=b&re=134&FedEmp=N&FedPub=Y
&jbf565=&caller=default.aspx&AVSDM=2010-01-12+00%3a03%3a00

 

 

The vacancy announcement for the SES Deputy Associate General Counsel
for Public Health, IHS Branch, in the Public Health Division in
Rockville, MD has

also been posted on the USAJOBS website.  The deadline for receipt of
applications is Wednesday, February 17, 2010.  The link is below:

 

http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85562087&JobTitle=Dep+Assoc
+General+Counsel+for+Public+Health%2c+IHS&q=counsel&lid=17514&sort=rv%2c
-dtex&cn=&rad_units=miles&brd=3876&pp=50&jbf565=1&vw=d&re=134&FedEmp=N&F
edPub=Y&caller=ses.aspx&AVSDM=2010-01-12+10%3a43%3a00

 

 

If the above links do not work, you can find the postings on
USAJOBS.GOV.    

 


From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Tue Jan 12 20:39:21 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:39:21 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <142401ca93b6$699342f0$3cb9c8d0$@com>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>
	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>
	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>
	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>
	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com>
	<1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>
	<13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>
	<A667A0911D7646AF8E170E50D3519337@StevePC>
	<142401ca93b6$699342f0$3cb9c8d0$@com>
Message-ID: <BF4129D6E00844309CA83D1125E9761E@StevePC>

Yes, if that state already has a blindness center which is supported by the 
tax dollars from the state and federal government.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> So a person who lives in a state that does not have a NFB center should 
> have
> to pay their own way to one of these facilities?  Last time I checked, if 
> a
> person is at the stage that they need to go to one of these, they are
> probably at the beginning of their blindness.  Therefore they are not
> working and have no money.  This was my situation.  Fortunately, I didn't
> have to go to a facility because I had a great support system.  But there
> are those who need the service.  I'm not sure whether the costs are
> different for the various centers...but it seems to me if NFB won't do
> anything to assist a person, then they probably aren't truly about 
> educating
> the blind to live independently...And I still say that states need to
> prioritize or else there will be a lot of blind people not able to work,
> live alone etc.
>
> Again, I understand what you're saying but I don't think our two ideas
> should be independent of one another.  If any state government isn't able 
> to
> reorient in times of recession, the people of that state need to elect 
> some
> new people.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:22 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> If a person wants to attend a center outside of their state where there is
> already a blindness center, the state in question should not have to pay 
> for
>
> the client to attend.  Voc Rehab budgets are stretched to the limit; there
> is no money for such out of state training.  Unless you can pay your own 
> way
>
> or NFB assists, the state can't aford this expense and still leave funding
> for all other consumers and their needs!!
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>
>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is 
>> no
>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local
>>> NFB
>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>> There
>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>
>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>>> are
>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>
>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>>> same
>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If
>>> the
>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>> with
>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>> institutions.
>>>
>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make
>>> up
>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>> center
>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going
>>>> to
>>>> do
>>>> much.
>>>>
>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them 
>>>> why
>>>> it
>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>>>> not
>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>>> not
>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>>> things
>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>> National
>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully 
>>>>>> paid
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>> /
>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>> 01/11/10
>>> 07:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>> 01/12/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 
> 01/12/10
> 07:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 01/12/10 
07:35:00



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Tue Jan 12 20:42:26 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:42:26 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <58D0BF78-4F64-4645-A033-06C5A722516F@zufelt.ca>
References: <FEDC3F54008F40B8B6A3C38C7274124A@Rufus>
	<58D0BF78-4F64-4645-A033-06C5A722516F@zufelt.ca>
Message-ID: <E32A754888974DFC9CD16D6FC98DB732@StevePC>

It may sound as if I'm not in favor of NFB centers, however, I think they 
are doing tremendous work.  However, the states' rehab agencies are in real 
bad shape as far as their budgets are concerned.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "E.J. Zufelt" <lists at zufelt.ca>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> Good afternoon,
>
> As this is off topic I'd love to hear responses privately.
>
> As I live in Canada, where rehab centres for the blind are practically
> non-existent, I am curious to hear from those who have attended to get
> and understanding of the benefit such training centres can provide.
>
> Thanks,
> Everett
>
> Follow me on Twitter
> http://twitter.com/ezufelt
>
> View my LinkedIn Profile
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>
>
>
> On 12-Jan-10, at 1:18 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:
>
>> Steve,
>>
>> I think you make a compelling argument.  That said, it seems most
>> states do
>> not bother to make proper investments in their state facilities.
>> Should a
>> person who is banking on one of these rehabilitation centers to
>> enhance
>> their self-sufficiency be punished for the state's lack of effort or
>> interest?  I chose not to attend an NFB center.  Yet it seems that
>> more
>> often than not people who do attend can show a good return on a
>> state's
>> investment.
>>
>> Joe Orozco
>>
>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 10:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of
>> the local NFB
>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about
>> blindness.  There
>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>
>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're
>> not.  They
>>> are
>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>
>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that
>> institution, then
>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a
>> blindness center,
>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers
>> at those
>>> same
>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally
>> possible..  If the
>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place
>>> to
>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay
>> the way with
>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the
>> limit.  States
>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend
>> NFB centers.
>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is
>>> like
>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a
>> consumer to
>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants
>> to attend a
>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get
>> scholarships to
>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to
>> pay.  Usually,
>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>> institutions.
>>>
>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you
>> must make up
>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>> center
>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain
>> to them in
>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really
>> not going to
>>>> do
>>>> much.
>>>>
>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.
>> Tell them why
>>>> it
>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea
>> why things do
>>>> not
>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state
>> agency does
>>>>> not
>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab
>> centers such as
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and
>>>>> other
>>>>> things
>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>> National
>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should
>> be fully paid
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is
>> that is being
>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training
>>>>>> Centers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of
>> South Florida
>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more
>> effective to use a
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to
>> members of
>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend
>> facilities of
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitat
>> ion-act-1973
>>> /
>>>>>>>    Quick
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> account info for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm
>> an%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin
>> %40pobox.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm
>> an%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205
>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep
>> .deeley%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>> 01/11/10
>>> 07:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv
>> erse08%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep
>> .deeley%40insightbb.com
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release
>> Date: 01/12/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz
>> co%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
>> virus signature database 4762 (20100111) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
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>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
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>>
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>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature
>> database 4764 (20100112) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 01/12/10 
07:35:00



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 20:41:00 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:41:00 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <BF4129D6E00844309CA83D1125E9761E@StevePC>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com>	<1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>	<13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>	<A667A0911D7646AF8E170E50D3519337@StevePC>	<142401ca93b6$699342f0$3cb9c8d0$@com>
	<BF4129D6E00844309CA83D1125E9761E@StevePC>
Message-ID: <14a801ca93c7$8db7d310$a9277930$@com>

Well, Lord help those who don't live in a state with a center.  They had
better scrounge up some money from somewhere.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:39 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

Yes, if that state already has a blindness center which is supported by the 
tax dollars from the state and federal government.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> So a person who lives in a state that does not have a NFB center should 
> have
> to pay their own way to one of these facilities?  Last time I checked, if 
> a
> person is at the stage that they need to go to one of these, they are
> probably at the beginning of their blindness.  Therefore they are not
> working and have no money.  This was my situation.  Fortunately, I didn't
> have to go to a facility because I had a great support system.  But there
> are those who need the service.  I'm not sure whether the costs are
> different for the various centers...but it seems to me if NFB won't do
> anything to assist a person, then they probably aren't truly about 
> educating
> the blind to live independently...And I still say that states need to
> prioritize or else there will be a lot of blind people not able to work,
> live alone etc.
>
> Again, I understand what you're saying but I don't think our two ideas
> should be independent of one another.  If any state government isn't able 
> to
> reorient in times of recession, the people of that state need to elect 
> some
> new people.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:22 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> If a person wants to attend a center outside of their state where there is
> already a blindness center, the state in question should not have to pay 
> for
>
> the client to attend.  Voc Rehab budgets are stretched to the limit; there
> is no money for such out of state training.  Unless you can pay your own 
> way
>
> or NFB assists, the state can't aford this expense and still leave funding
> for all other consumers and their needs!!
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>
>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is 
>> no
>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local
>>> NFB
>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>> There
>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>
>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>>> are
>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>
>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>>> same
>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If
>>> the
>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>> with
>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>> institutions.
>>>
>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make
>>> up
>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>> center
>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going
>>>> to
>>>> do
>>>> much.
>>>>
>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them 
>>>> why
>>>> it
>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>>>> not
>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>>> not
>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>>> things
>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>> National
>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully 
>>>>>> paid
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>> /
>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>> 01/11/10
>>> 07:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>> 01/12/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 
> 01/12/10
> 07:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
sightbb.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 01/12/10 
07:35:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
il.com



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan 12 22:18:29 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:18:29 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>
	<13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>
Message-ID: <F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>

The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the quality 
of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the state 
is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the non-NFB 
programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by 
maintaining the status quo.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>
> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is no
> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local 
>> NFB
>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness. 
>> There
>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>
>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>> are
>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>
>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>> same
>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If 
>> the
>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way 
>> with
>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>> institutions.
>>
>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make 
>> up
>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>> center
>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going 
>>> to
>>> do
>>> much.
>>>
>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them why
>>> it
>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>>> not
>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>> not
>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>> the
>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>> things
>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>> agencies
>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>> National
>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid
>>>>> for
>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>> experienced?
>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> marc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>> little
>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>> system
>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>> consultant
>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>> consumers
>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>>> their
>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>> legislation
>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>> /
>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>> 01/11/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 
> 01/12/10
> 07:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 22:27:45 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:27:45 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>	<13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>
	<F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>
Message-ID: <14dd01ca93d6$773e0c80$65ba2580$@com>

I agree that it's more cost effective to train someone to live
independently.  There's a better chance of self-sustainment.

I'm not sure if I believe NFB has the only effective way of training.
Again, I'm not knocking NFB since I'm a local member.  I think it's just
dangerous to say their the only game in town.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:18 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the quality 
of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the state 
is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the non-NFB 
programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by 
maintaining the status quo.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>
> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is no
> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local 
>> NFB
>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness. 
>> There
>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>
>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>> are
>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>
>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>> same
>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If 
>> the
>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way 
>> with
>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>> institutions.
>>
>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make 
>> up
>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>> center
>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going 
>>> to
>>> do
>>> much.
>>>
>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them why
>>> it
>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>>> not
>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>> not
>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>> the
>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>> things
>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>> agencies
>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>> National
>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully paid
>>>>> for
>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>> experienced?
>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> marc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>> little
>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>> system
>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>> consultant
>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>> consumers
>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>>> their
>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>> legislation
>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
>
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>> /
>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>> 01/11/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date: 
> 01/12/10
> 07:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
al.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
il.com



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Wed Jan 13 00:29:06 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:29:06 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>
	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>
	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>
	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>
	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>
	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com>
	<1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>
	<13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com>
	<F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>
Message-ID: <A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC>

I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB centers 
compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the 
hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to make 
it in a NFB run center.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the 
> quality
> of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the 
> state
> is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the non-NFB
> programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by
> maintaining the status quo.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>
>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is 
>> no
>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local
>>> NFB
>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>> There
>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>
>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>>> are
>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>
>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>>> same
>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If
>>> the
>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>> with
>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>> institutions.
>>>
>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make
>>> up
>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>> center
>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going
>>>> to
>>>> do
>>>> much.
>>>>
>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them 
>>>> why
>>>> it
>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>>>> not
>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>>> not
>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>>> things
>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>> National
>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully 
>>>>>> paid
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>> /
>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>> 01/11/10
>>> 07:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>> 01/12/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.137/2617 - Release Date: 01/12/10 
19:35:00



From taiablas at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 01:06:09 2010
From: taiablas at gmail.com (Tai Blas)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:06:09 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike><5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net><8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike><fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com><FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC><137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC><13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>
	<A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC>
Message-ID: <3E471724B9A74DD0A276766E4CD522AA@blind.state.ia.us>

Steve,

I respectfully disagree. I have heard folks say that the NFB centers only
take the "cream of the crop," not those whom you call "hard-luck" with
additional challenges who have a difficult time at other centers. I have
attended an NFB training center and the fact is that they take students of
all abilities and do an excellent job of rehabilitating them. These centers
do not pick and choose. The same cannot be said for most state centers,
Hawaii, Iowa, Nebraska, New Mexico, BISM, and Kris Cole, and possibly a few
others excluded. Some states, Utah included, are genuinely striving to
improve training and adjustment services for their blind clients. If you
placed a "hard-luck" client with sufficient motivation in a low-performing
state center and then placed them at an NFB training center or in one of the
high-performing state centers I mentioned above, they would progress and
improve much more at the NFB or NFB-model training center than in the
low-performing state center. Employment statistics highlight those centers
and agencies that are performing well in this regard and I am not talking
about placements in sheltered employment.

State VR programs pay for their clients to attend centers, whether in state
or out of state. They save no money by sending clients to a low-performing
center, only to have that client come back in two years having lost their
job and needing additional training. The program quality of high-performing
centers and the long-term benefits they provide to clients is worth any
difference in cost. Often, the difference between the difference in cost
between attending state centers and attending NFB centers is negligible.
These centers are not as expensive as you might think.

Tai

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:29 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB centers
compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the
hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to make
it in a NFB run center.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the 
> quality of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer 
> and the state is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive 
> some of the non-NFB programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a 
> lot of money by maintaining the status quo.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for 
>> the state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency 
>> is always trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>
>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states 
>> would crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  
>> It's been my experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not 
>> sure why there is no money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what 
>> I've experienced.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the 
>>> local NFB chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about 
>>> blindness.
>>> There
>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>
>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  
>>> They are tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>
>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, 
>>> then they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting 
>>> money on frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness 
>>> center, funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB 
>>> centers at those same tax payers expense.  That is just not right or 
>>> fiscally possible..  If the NFB wants these clients from states with 
>>> blindness centers in place to attend NFB centers, they should 
>>> establish scholarships or pay the way with NFB funding.  The 
>>> budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States with 
>>> blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is 
>>> like saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a 
>>> consumer to attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, 
>>> there limitedf resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer 
>>> wants to attend a private college, they need to pay the difference 
>>> or get scholarships to makeup the difference from what a state 
>>> agency is able to pay.  Usually, state agencies will pay for blind 
>>> consumers to attend in-state institutions.
>>>
>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must 
>>> make up the difference.  The same should go for the consumer 
>>> attending a NFB center if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to 
>>>> them in person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is 
>>>> really not going to do much.
>>>>
>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell 
>>>> them why it doesn't work explain it to them because they have no 
>>>> idea why things do not work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency 
>>>>> does not want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab 
>>>>> centers such as the NFB centers and rehab clients have had to 
>>>>> request hearings and other things to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state 
>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend 
>>>>>> National Federation of the blind training centers and they should 
>>>>>> be fully paid for by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please 
>>>>>> rewrite...."
>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is 
>>>>>> being experienced?
>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South 
>>>>>> Florida mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee 
>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 
>>>>>> 1993-2005 www.ada.gov Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence 
>>>>>> Against Women, USDOJ www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this 
>>>>>> have little if any real effect with Congress. It is much more 
>>>>>> effective to use a system of actual letters that can 
>>>>>> electronically be submitted to members of Congress and/or state 
>>>>>> legislators. Working with many groups as a consultant on 
>>>>>> legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While 
>>>>>> consumers definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend 
>>>>>> facilities of their choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 
>>>>>> 1973 or any other legislation will not get rewritten using this 
>>>>>> format.
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-a
>> ct-1973
>>> /
>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40
>> sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40po
>> box.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40
>> sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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_______________________________________________
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From mhartle at nfb.org  Wed Jan 13 02:00:36 2010
From: mhartle at nfb.org (Hartle,
	Mary Jo)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:00:36 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] NFB LAW Program:  Deadline coming up soon--February 1,
	2010
Message-ID: <auto-000134727929@mailfront2.g2host.com>


The National Federation of the Blind Announces
The 2010 NFB Leadership and Advocacy in Washington, D.C., (LAW) Program
Engaging the Voice of America's Blind Youth

For Youth Grades 6-9 or Ages 12-16
April 16-20, 2010
Washington, D.C., and Baltimore, MD

This four-day experience will provide blind and low vision students 
with a unique opportunity to explore the inner workings of our 
country's government, its history, and its culture while staying at 
the national headquarters for the National Federation of the Blind in 
Baltimore, MD. In addition to learning about grassroots legislation 
efforts, how resolutions are passed, and how various blindness 
legislation is brought about, participants will learn more about 
advocacy work for blind individuals and available resources for blind 
students and adults.

Highlights of the Program include:
* Visits to historical sites in Washington, D.C.
* Meetings with, and presentations from, influential government leaders
* Presentations by influential leaders from the largest blindness 
advocacy group in the country
* Tours of the National Federation of the Blind national headquarters
* A visit to the International Braille and Technology Center, the 
largest lab of accessible technology for the blind

Program Details:
* Cost: There will be a $250 fee for accepted students.  All other 
expenses including transportation, room, and board will be provided
* All accepted students must be accompanied by a parent/guardian, 
teacher, or blind/low vision mentor from their home state
* No more than twenty-five participants from across the country will 
be accepted
* Applications are due by February 1, 2010, to be considered

To learn more about this exciting new program, or to apply online, 
please visit <http://www.nfb.org/LAWProgram>www.nfb.org/LAWProgram or 
contact Mary Jo T. Hartle, director of education at (410) 659-9314, 
ext. 2407,  or by e-mail at <mailto:mhartle at nfb.org>mhartle at nfb.org.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Mary Jo T. Hartle



Mary Jo Thorpe-Hartle, MEd, NOMC

Director of Education
Jernigan Institute
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND
200 East Wells Street
Baltimore, MD 21230
Phone: (410)659-9314 ext. 2407
Email: <mailto:mhartle at nfb.org>mhartle at nfb.org
Fax: (410) 659-5129
         Visit <http://www.nfb.org/>www.nfb.org


From goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan 13 02:42:30 2010
From: goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net (Sarah Clark)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 18:42:30 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
References: <006701ca9331$3822b640$6601a8c0@server>
	<13ff01ca93ab$a736d640$f5a482c0$@com>
Message-ID: <007b01ca93fa$0dcc7290$6701a8c0@computer2>

It doesn't take everyone getting more involved.  It just takes a few people 
who are being affected, along with a strong legal attack.  I think that is 
the point.  Lawyers are the ones with the power to force the change, if it 
is done carefully and calculated.

Sarah

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys


>I think all that you've suggested is really great.  I absolutely agree with
> the latter part of your e-mail.  It doesn't matter how much litigation is
> put forth if there is no fervor within the blind and visual impaired
> community.  Every example you gave was based upon a great demand within 
> each
> community.
>
> The question is, how do we get everyone more involved?
>
> Sometimes it seems as though many blind individuals, at least here where I
> am, tend to be sort of hermit like.  What do we do about that?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Dennis Clark
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:45 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
>
> If you are a blind lawyer or second or third year law student please read
> on.  We are privileged to be lawyers and this is an appeal for you to join
> with me to begin formulating a long term legal strategy which will enable 
> us
> as blind people to make the same kind of progress in kind and degree as
> other minority groups have made during the past 60 years.  This will 
> involve
> each of us becoming experts on the legal histories of women, blacks, and
> gays, to understand the seminal cases and legislation which has led to 
> their
> progress, and to develop a well thought out, cohesive legal theory for 
> blind
> civil rights which uses the issues and cases of these other groups as
> precedent or persuasive support for our own analogous legal claims.
>
> When I was in law school I was fortunate to get to know one of the 
> attorneys
> who worked on the Jackie Robinson law suit which integrated professional
> baseball.  He was a celebrated law professor and lawyer who participated 
> in
> this law suit as a volunteer civil rights lawyer for B'nai B'rith.  Most 
> of
> the successful civil rights cases which have led to the equality that 
> blacks
> benefit from today were fought by the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai
> B'rith both together and separately.  Thurgood Marshal was also a critical
> global thinker and player with the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and it was 
> those
> successes which led President Johnson to appoint him to the Supreme Court.
>
> My professor told me that the Jackie Robinson case was planned long before
> Jackie Robinson himself was identified as the best plaintiff for the case.
> In the 40's and 50's a group of very brilliant lawyers and law professors
> talked and met together frequently to create a long term legal strategy
> which could shape and reorient the law to achieve civil rights progress 
> for
> both blacks and Jews.  They carefully decided which cases needed to be
> brought ahead of other cases because obviously some cases will become
> seminal and have a larger impact on society than others.
>
> The decision to challenge professional baseballs prohibition against black
> players was one of these key strategic decisions.  Once it was decided to
> file this important case, they set out to find the right player to be the
> plaintiff.  He said that they knew they needed a player who was perfect in
> every way.  The player would need to be a great hitter and be pretty much
> qualified to play every other position on the field at a professional 
> level.
> The key was to have a player who was so unbelievable in every way so that
> any argument which could be made against hiring such a black player would 
> be
> clearly irrational, and as such based purely on racial prejudice.  Beyond
> this, he said that they needed a player who could emotionally withstand 
> the
> abuse which would be aimed at him by players and fans once the case was 
> won
> and he was hired.  He was going to be the target of much hatred, he would
> not be permitted to stay in hotels with the rest of the team in many 
> cities,
> he could not eat in the same restaurants as the rest of the team in many
> cities, and his life really could be at risk.  It was undeniable that this
> was going to take a very special person and they waited quite a while to
> file the suit until they found jus that right person, and that man was
> Jackie Robinson.
>
> The main point here is that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith
> didn't simply file cases willie nillie, but rather they chose cases
> carefully so as to move the courts along slowly but surely.  Filing a
> dubious case where there is a fifty fifty chance of losing would have been
> understood as potentially counter-productive.  Clearly if we as blind 
> people
> win a case we have a precedent in our favor, but if we lose a case this is 
> a
> setback because we have created a precedent that is contrary to our civil
> rights progress.
>
> I am confident that I will be attacked for this, but I believe that we 
> have
> steadily lost ground over the past 30 years in both education and
> employment.  Obviously today's young blind adults can not know this 
> because
> as is true for all people, our reality is shaped mostly by what we are
> experiencing.  Moreover there is a human prejudice that today must always 
> be
> better than yesterday.
>
> but my claim is that those of us who were teenagers and young adults in 
> the
> 60's and 70's had more opportunities than similarly situated blind people
> today.  When I took the PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE LSAT, and 4 bar exams, I was
> given fair exams by competent readers.  To have done less than this in 
> those
> days would have been regarded as unthinkable and absurd by the agencies
> providing these tests because it would have been thought as simply unfair.
> Today one is lucky if the reader provided by any of these agencies is 
> barely
> literate.
>
> For me most of these exams predated the ADA and my claim is that the ADA 
> is
> the problem.  I have dealt with a number of these agencies on behalf of
> disabled clients who have come to me for help, and I can tell you that the
> agencies think the ADA empowers them to simply give blind people a reader 
> of
> the agencies choosing.  On numerous occasions I have been told by
> representatives of these agencies that all they are required to do is
> provide a reader of their choosing.  I point out that the ADA says
> "qualified reader," not just a reader.  Inevitably they then claim that 
> all
> their readers are qualified even though they can not articulate what steps
> they have taken to verify this to be true.  Further discussion usually
> results in a very smug acknowledgement that they hold all the power and if
> we think we can do something about it then go ahead.  They are right.  We
> have become powerless, but that can change if those of us with law school
> educations come together and force a change.
>
> I would be curious to know how many blind students there are today at the 
> 5
> top ranked engineering schools in the U.S.  My guess is zero, but I hope I
> am wrong about this.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were a number of
> us.  I attended Stanford in Mechanical Engineering from 1977 to 1981 and 
> all
> of my materials were provided to me in Braille including thousands of 
> raised
> line drawings, and without these materials it would have been impossible 
> for
> me to do the program.  One of my engineering professors was a retired
> Admiral from the Navy and one day he asked me if an optacon would be 
> useful
> to me and if I would like one?  I told him that I had a little experience
> with it, but they cost $5000 and I wasn't sure that I could afford it or
> that it would be useful enough to justify the cost.  He had an interesting
> response.  He said, Dennis first of all Stanford is rich so they can 
> afford
> it.  Second, he said, "Stanford admitted you and it is Stanford's
> responsibility to provide you what ever resources you need to be
> successful."  Has anyone heard any professors today say anything like 
> this?
> I think not.  On these forums I have read of a blind college student being
> told by a professor that he could not play in the school band because he 
> was
> blind.  I would have thought that even the dumbest professor in the world
> could have gotten this right simply because of Ray Charles and Stevie
> Wonder.  I recall a law school dean at the University of Alaska stating 
> that
> a blind applicant could not be admitted because blind people can not be
> lawyers.
>
> Another of my professors was Robert Hofstadter.  He had a Nobel prize in
> Physics.  I approached him near the midterm, and asked him if we could
> arrange for someone to read the midterm to me.  He immediately responded,
> Well why don't you come to my office the morning of the test and I will 
> read
> it to you, which he did.  I have read of professors who now shoot their
> exams over to the disability services office to be read aloud by someone
> completely unable to read aloud.  The professor can't be bothered today.
> When we finished Professor Hofstadter said that he wished he could do this
> with every student because he would then really know what students did and
> didn't understand and he would then know what he needed to spend 
> additional
> time on in lectures.
>
> There was no disabled students office to function as an obstacle between 
> my
> professors and me.  There was no disabled students office which had the
> responsibility to provide me with Braille or readers or anything else, and
> this was a plus not a minus because today these offices frequently fall 
> down
> on the job and the student is left completely holding the bag.  No 
> business
> would rely on a vendor which comes through only 60 or 70 per cent of the
> time, particularly when the business has no power over the vendor.  This 
> is
> a formula for disaster and no sensible manager would do this yet blind
> students are now forced into this situation all the time.  Because of this
> lack of accountability by disabled students offices I have recently read a
> discussion where a blind student is asking how he can handle a college 
> math
> class using readers because he doesn't have a Braille math book.  No 
> sighted
> student would be expected to do college math without a print book and they
> can see the board.  During the past 20 years I am confident that we have
> spent tens of millions of dollars on disability student offices and the
> students now have less than we had in the 70's without all this money 
> having
> been spent.  Why?
>
> I  would argue that we as lawyers need to rethink our current situation 
> and
> get a handle on the legal twists and turns that brought us here.  My
> thinking is that we should begin by revisiting Plessy v. Ferguson an the 2
> law school cases which overturned Plessy.  The Supreme Court decided that
> separate but equal can never actually be equal, so Plessy was done away
> with.
>
> However, almost all the law which governs our lives, rights and
> opportunities as blind people is openly based on the notion that separate
> but unequal treatment for us is acceptable.  We actually spend most of our
> time as blind people asking for separate but unequal treatment as an
> accommodation.  Women, blacks, and gays do not do this.  They are clear 
> that
> separate is always unequal and they are having none of it.
>
> Consider this.  When I was in law school an issue arose concerning women 
> law
> school students.  For some reason there is a shower in one of the men's
> restrooms at the University of Chicago Law School.  The law school was 
> built
> in the 50's before there were many if any women law students.  There are
> certainly women's restrooms, but none with a shower.
>
> Men and women alike have taken in recent years to exercising while at 
> school
> and some of them wish to shower after they run or exercise.  This is not a
> problem for men since there is a shower, but what can women do?  It was
> initially proposed that women could go over to the main campus to the gym
> and shower there.  This is about 4 blocks from the law school across the
> midway.  This was a no go as far as women were concerned.  They asked why
> should they have to go a total of 8 blocks round trip to shower when men
> could shower without leaving the law school?  At first the administration
> argued that since women needed to shower because they were already
> exercising then why wouldn't they be willing to go across campus since a
> little additional exercise was all that was being proposed?  However, the
> universal consensus of men and women alike based on common sense and basic
> fairness was that this was not acceptable.  It was viewed as pretty much
> obvious that it would be unfair to expect women to have to do more than 
> men
> when they engaged in the same activity as men.  I dare say that those
> reading this would probably agree and I'm asking you to keep on that same
> fairness hat when you consider the following question.
>
> Why is it fair for a blind person to have to take twice as long on an exam
> as a sighted person in order to obtain an equivalent valid score?  My 
> claim
> is that it is not fair and women would not put up with it for a second.
> Women would tell you to figure out how to do it with out them taking on 
> any
> burden which is greater than that of men.  They would be right.  As a 
> matter
> of testing science and methodology it is possible to create an exam which
> blind people could take in the same length of time which would be equally
> valid, but it is not being done because we have permitted them to dump the
> burden of accommodation on us rather than requiring them to spend more 
> money
> validating their standardized tests.
>
> Would a professional quarterback ever be expected to play football in an
> important game with a center that he has never had the opportunity to
> practice with?  No.  This would be regarded as absurd and totally unfair.
> Yet we are expected to work with readers on exams that our entire futures
> and jobs are dependent upon; with readers who we've never met, tested or
> practiced with and who often can not even read English aloud accurately.
> Women would not put up with this.  Blacks would not put up with this.  We
> do, and the reason we do is that we feel powerless to do anything about 
> it.
> We have come to think like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire, that we 
> must
> depend on the kindness of strangers.
>
> I worked for 5 years for a very large law firm, and we never ourselves, 
> nor
> did we ever advise our clients to depend on the kindness of the other 
> side.
> The parties on the other side wanted to win because they wanted their own
> way, and our clients also wanted to win because they wanted their own way.
> There was no kindness on either side and that is how it should be in 
> matters
> of law.  As lawyers it is our mandated responsibility to zealously 
> represent
> our clients which means it is our job to fight them with everything we 
> have
> to make certain that our clients win.  That's what lawyers do.  We are
> privileged to be lawyers.  We have one power that no one else has.  As all
> non lawyers must acknowledge, you can write thousands of letters to 
> someone
> trying to get them to talk with you and they can throw them in the trash.
> You can light up their switchboard all day long with phone calls and they
> can tell the operator to say that they are not in.  However, we as lawyers
> have the power to force them to talk with us simply by serving a complaint
> on them and they will definitely talk with us in front of a judge.  They
> will not ignore that.
>
> I'm sure I have offended some, bored most, and confused others.  But if 
> you
> are a lawyer and I have struck a chord with you and reawakened for a 
> moment
> a memory of why you went to law school to begin with, please contact me. 
> We
> have the knowledge and the power to make real change for blind people if 
> we
> choose to come together like the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai 
> B'rith.
> Thanks for reading and I hope to talk with you.
>
> Warmest regards,
> Dennis
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/goldflash9%40sbcglobal.net 



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan 13 06:05:10 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 22:05:10 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <14dd01ca93d6$773e0c80$65ba2580$@com>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>	<13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>
	<14dd01ca93d6$773e0c80$65ba2580$@com>
Message-ID: <AC7B3740E49B4389A6B4ACC2FA1895EC@spike>

my point is that cost benefit analysis as well as outcome analysis needs to 
be conducted to quantify the benefits of NFB programs compared to other 
types of programs. By conducting statistical analysis the quality of life 
for blind participants would be improved by working an objective model 
rather than subjective anecdotes or preferences. Perhaps some of this 
research has been done at some point. Not currently being employed in the 
field I can't say though.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


>I agree that it's more cost effective to train someone to live
> independently.  There's a better chance of self-sustainment.
>
> I'm not sure if I believe NFB has the only effective way of training.
> Again, I'm not knocking NFB since I'm a local member.  I think it's just
> dangerous to say their the only game in town.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:18 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the 
> quality
> of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the 
> state
> is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the non-NFB
> programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by
> maintaining the status quo.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>
>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is 
>> no
>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local
>>> NFB
>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>> There
>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>
>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>>> are
>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>
>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>>> same
>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If
>>> the
>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>> with
>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>> institutions.
>>>
>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make
>>> up
>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>> center
>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going
>>>> to
>>>> do
>>>> much.
>>>>
>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them 
>>>> why
>>>> it
>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>>>> not
>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>>> not
>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>>> things
>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>> National
>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully 
>>>>>> paid
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>> /
>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>> 01/11/10
>>> 07:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>> 01/12/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan 13 07:01:05 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 23:01:05 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike><5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net><8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike><fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com><FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC><137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC><13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>
	<A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC>
Message-ID: <A1F958204EA643E28FC08D017343D0AC@spike>

dthat's a valid point as many consumers expect their hands to be held every 
step of the way and beyond.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


>I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB centers 
>compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the 
>hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to make 
>it in a NFB run center.
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the 
>> quality
>> of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the 
>> state
>> is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the non-NFB
>> programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by
>> maintaining the status quo.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
>>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is 
>>> always
>>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>>
>>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states 
>>> would
>>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been 
>>> my
>>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is 
>>> no
>>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local
>>>> NFB
>>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>>> There
>>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>>
>>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>>>> are
>>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>>
>>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, 
>>>> then
>>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>>>> same
>>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If
>>>> the
>>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>>> with
>>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit. 
>>>> States
>>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB 
>>>> centers.
>>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay. 
>>>> Usually,
>>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>>> institutions.
>>>>
>>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make
>>>> up
>>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>>> center
>>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them 
>>>>> in
>>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going
>>>>> to
>>>>> do
>>>>> much.
>>>>>
>>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them 
>>>>> why
>>>>> it
>>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things 
>>>>> do
>>>>> not
>>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>>
>>>>> James
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>>> agencies
>>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>>> National
>>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully 
>>>>>>> paid
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>>> /
>>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>>> 01/11/10
>>>> 07:35:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>>> il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>>> 01/12/10
>>> 07:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.137/2617 - Release Date: 
> 01/12/10 19:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 09:14:33 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 03:14:33 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <A1F958204EA643E28FC08D017343D0AC@spike>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike><5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net><8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike><fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com><FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC><137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC><13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>	<A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC>
	<A1F958204EA643E28FC08D017343D0AC@spike>
Message-ID: <15ce01ca9430$d2aaa420$77ffec60$@com>

Are we talking about persons with brand new blindness?  I hope not.  People
can't start out knowing everything to do...there is a process.  After
awhile, you shouldn't need that but at the beginning there is quite a bit of
psychological retraining.  So, I hope we aren't talking about the beginning
stages...

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:01 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

dthat's a valid point as many consumers expect their hands to be held every 
step of the way and beyond.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


>I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB centers

>compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the 
>hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to make 
>it in a NFB run center.
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the 
>> quality
>> of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the 
>> state
>> is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the non-NFB
>> programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by
>> maintaining the status quo.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
>>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is 
>>> always
>>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>>
>>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states 
>>> would
>>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been 
>>> my
>>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is 
>>> no
>>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local
>>>> NFB
>>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>>> There
>>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>>
>>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>>>> are
>>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>>
>>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, 
>>>> then
>>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>>>> same
>>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If
>>>> the
>>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>>> with
>>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit. 
>>>> States
>>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB 
>>>> centers.
>>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay. 
>>>> Usually,
>>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>>> institutions.
>>>>
>>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make
>>>> up
>>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>>> center
>>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them 
>>>>> in
>>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going
>>>>> to
>>>>> do
>>>>> much.
>>>>>
>>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them 
>>>>> why
>>>>> it
>>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things 
>>>>> do
>>>>> not
>>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>>
>>>>> James
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>>> agencies
>>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>>> National
>>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully 
>>>>>>> paid
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>>> /
>>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>>> 01/11/10
>>>> 07:35:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>>> il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>>> 01/12/10
>>> 07:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
al.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
sightbb.com
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.137/2617 - Release Date: 
> 01/12/10 19:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
al.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
il.com



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 09:17:25 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 03:17:25 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <AC7B3740E49B4389A6B4ACC2FA1895EC@spike>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk>	<C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike>	<5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net>	<8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike>	<fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com>	<FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC>	<137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC>	<13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>	<14dd01ca93d6$773e0c80$65ba2580$@com>
	<AC7B3740E49B4389A6B4ACC2FA1895EC@spike>
Message-ID: <15cf01ca9431$3926e880$ab74b980$@com>

I understood your point.  I just don't think in turn that NFB should be
looked at as the only game without that statistical data you spoke of.
There's no disagreement about that.  Plus, one shoe doesn't fit all.  I
don't think there is disagreement, just a different approach or wording.
That's all...

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 12:05 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

my point is that cost benefit analysis as well as outcome analysis needs to 
be conducted to quantify the benefits of NFB programs compared to other 
types of programs. By conducting statistical analysis the quality of life 
for blind participants would be improved by working an objective model 
rather than subjective anecdotes or preferences. Perhaps some of this 
research has been done at some point. Not currently being employed in the 
field I can't say though.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


>I agree that it's more cost effective to train someone to live
> independently.  There's a better chance of self-sustainment.
>
> I'm not sure if I believe NFB has the only effective way of training.
> Again, I'm not knocking NFB since I'm a local member.  I think it's just
> dangerous to say their the only game in town.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:18 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the 
> quality
> of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the 
> state
> is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the non-NFB
> programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by
> maintaining the status quo.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for the
>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is always
>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>
>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states would
>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been my
>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is 
>> no
>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local
>>> NFB
>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>> There
>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>
>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  They
>>> are
>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>
>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, then
>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness center,
>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>>> same
>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If
>>> the
>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>> with
>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States
>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer to
>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend a
>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships to
>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.  Usually,
>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>> institutions.
>>>
>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must make
>>> up
>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>> center
>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them in
>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not going
>>>> to
>>>> do
>>>> much.
>>>>
>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them 
>>>> why
>>>> it
>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things do
>>>> not
>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency does
>>>>> not
>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such as
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>>> things
>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>> National
>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully 
>>>>>> paid
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is being
>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South Florida
>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use a
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members of
>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities of
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>> /
>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>>
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>
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>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
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>
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>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 09:19:55 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 03:19:55 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
In-Reply-To: <007b01ca93fa$0dcc7290$6701a8c0@computer2>
References: <006701ca9331$3822b640$6601a8c0@server>	<13ff01ca93ab$a736d640$f5a482c0$@com>
	<007b01ca93fa$0dcc7290$6701a8c0@computer2>
Message-ID: <15d001ca9431$928860c0$b7992240$@com>

Well, I wasn't disagreeing with the strategy but in every example that was
given there was a great demand from the people being affected.  So that was
my point.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Sarah Clark
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:42 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys

It doesn't take everyone getting more involved.  It just takes a few people 
who are being affected, along with a strong legal attack.  I think that is 
the point.  Lawyers are the ones with the power to force the change, if it 
is done carefully and calculated.

Sarah

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys


>I think all that you've suggested is really great.  I absolutely agree with
> the latter part of your e-mail.  It doesn't matter how much litigation is
> put forth if there is no fervor within the blind and visual impaired
> community.  Every example you gave was based upon a great demand within 
> each
> community.
>
> The question is, how do we get everyone more involved?
>
> Sometimes it seems as though many blind individuals, at least here where I
> am, tend to be sort of hermit like.  What do we do about that?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Dennis Clark
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:45 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
>
> If you are a blind lawyer or second or third year law student please read
> on.  We are privileged to be lawyers and this is an appeal for you to join
> with me to begin formulating a long term legal strategy which will enable 
> us
> as blind people to make the same kind of progress in kind and degree as
> other minority groups have made during the past 60 years.  This will 
> involve
> each of us becoming experts on the legal histories of women, blacks, and
> gays, to understand the seminal cases and legislation which has led to 
> their
> progress, and to develop a well thought out, cohesive legal theory for 
> blind
> civil rights which uses the issues and cases of these other groups as
> precedent or persuasive support for our own analogous legal claims.
>
> When I was in law school I was fortunate to get to know one of the 
> attorneys
> who worked on the Jackie Robinson law suit which integrated professional
> baseball.  He was a celebrated law professor and lawyer who participated 
> in
> this law suit as a volunteer civil rights lawyer for B'nai B'rith.  Most 
> of
> the successful civil rights cases which have led to the equality that 
> blacks
> benefit from today were fought by the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai
> B'rith both together and separately.  Thurgood Marshal was also a critical
> global thinker and player with the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and it was 
> those
> successes which led President Johnson to appoint him to the Supreme Court.
>
> My professor told me that the Jackie Robinson case was planned long before
> Jackie Robinson himself was identified as the best plaintiff for the case.
> In the 40's and 50's a group of very brilliant lawyers and law professors
> talked and met together frequently to create a long term legal strategy
> which could shape and reorient the law to achieve civil rights progress 
> for
> both blacks and Jews.  They carefully decided which cases needed to be
> brought ahead of other cases because obviously some cases will become
> seminal and have a larger impact on society than others.
>
> The decision to challenge professional baseballs prohibition against black
> players was one of these key strategic decisions.  Once it was decided to
> file this important case, they set out to find the right player to be the
> plaintiff.  He said that they knew they needed a player who was perfect in
> every way.  The player would need to be a great hitter and be pretty much
> qualified to play every other position on the field at a professional 
> level.
> The key was to have a player who was so unbelievable in every way so that
> any argument which could be made against hiring such a black player would 
> be
> clearly irrational, and as such based purely on racial prejudice.  Beyond
> this, he said that they needed a player who could emotionally withstand 
> the
> abuse which would be aimed at him by players and fans once the case was 
> won
> and he was hired.  He was going to be the target of much hatred, he would
> not be permitted to stay in hotels with the rest of the team in many 
> cities,
> he could not eat in the same restaurants as the rest of the team in many
> cities, and his life really could be at risk.  It was undeniable that this
> was going to take a very special person and they waited quite a while to
> file the suit until they found jus that right person, and that man was
> Jackie Robinson.
>
> The main point here is that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai B'rith
> didn't simply file cases willie nillie, but rather they chose cases
> carefully so as to move the courts along slowly but surely.  Filing a
> dubious case where there is a fifty fifty chance of losing would have been
> understood as potentially counter-productive.  Clearly if we as blind 
> people
> win a case we have a precedent in our favor, but if we lose a case this is

> a
> setback because we have created a precedent that is contrary to our civil
> rights progress.
>
> I am confident that I will be attacked for this, but I believe that we 
> have
> steadily lost ground over the past 30 years in both education and
> employment.  Obviously today's young blind adults can not know this 
> because
> as is true for all people, our reality is shaped mostly by what we are
> experiencing.  Moreover there is a human prejudice that today must always 
> be
> better than yesterday.
>
> but my claim is that those of us who were teenagers and young adults in 
> the
> 60's and 70's had more opportunities than similarly situated blind people
> today.  When I took the PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE LSAT, and 4 bar exams, I was
> given fair exams by competent readers.  To have done less than this in 
> those
> days would have been regarded as unthinkable and absurd by the agencies
> providing these tests because it would have been thought as simply unfair.
> Today one is lucky if the reader provided by any of these agencies is 
> barely
> literate.
>
> For me most of these exams predated the ADA and my claim is that the ADA 
> is
> the problem.  I have dealt with a number of these agencies on behalf of
> disabled clients who have come to me for help, and I can tell you that the
> agencies think the ADA empowers them to simply give blind people a reader 
> of
> the agencies choosing.  On numerous occasions I have been told by
> representatives of these agencies that all they are required to do is
> provide a reader of their choosing.  I point out that the ADA says
> "qualified reader," not just a reader.  Inevitably they then claim that 
> all
> their readers are qualified even though they can not articulate what steps
> they have taken to verify this to be true.  Further discussion usually
> results in a very smug acknowledgement that they hold all the power and if
> we think we can do something about it then go ahead.  They are right.  We
> have become powerless, but that can change if those of us with law school
> educations come together and force a change.
>
> I would be curious to know how many blind students there are today at the 
> 5
> top ranked engineering schools in the U.S.  My guess is zero, but I hope I
> am wrong about this.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were a number of
> us.  I attended Stanford in Mechanical Engineering from 1977 to 1981 and 
> all
> of my materials were provided to me in Braille including thousands of 
> raised
> line drawings, and without these materials it would have been impossible 
> for
> me to do the program.  One of my engineering professors was a retired
> Admiral from the Navy and one day he asked me if an optacon would be 
> useful
> to me and if I would like one?  I told him that I had a little experience
> with it, but they cost $5000 and I wasn't sure that I could afford it or
> that it would be useful enough to justify the cost.  He had an interesting
> response.  He said, Dennis first of all Stanford is rich so they can 
> afford
> it.  Second, he said, "Stanford admitted you and it is Stanford's
> responsibility to provide you what ever resources you need to be
> successful."  Has anyone heard any professors today say anything like 
> this?
> I think not.  On these forums I have read of a blind college student being
> told by a professor that he could not play in the school band because he 
> was
> blind.  I would have thought that even the dumbest professor in the world
> could have gotten this right simply because of Ray Charles and Stevie
> Wonder.  I recall a law school dean at the University of Alaska stating 
> that
> a blind applicant could not be admitted because blind people can not be
> lawyers.
>
> Another of my professors was Robert Hofstadter.  He had a Nobel prize in
> Physics.  I approached him near the midterm, and asked him if we could
> arrange for someone to read the midterm to me.  He immediately responded,
> Well why don't you come to my office the morning of the test and I will 
> read
> it to you, which he did.  I have read of professors who now shoot their
> exams over to the disability services office to be read aloud by someone
> completely unable to read aloud.  The professor can't be bothered today.
> When we finished Professor Hofstadter said that he wished he could do this
> with every student because he would then really know what students did and
> didn't understand and he would then know what he needed to spend 
> additional
> time on in lectures.
>
> There was no disabled students office to function as an obstacle between 
> my
> professors and me.  There was no disabled students office which had the
> responsibility to provide me with Braille or readers or anything else, and
> this was a plus not a minus because today these offices frequently fall 
> down
> on the job and the student is left completely holding the bag.  No 
> business
> would rely on a vendor which comes through only 60 or 70 per cent of the
> time, particularly when the business has no power over the vendor.  This 
> is
> a formula for disaster and no sensible manager would do this yet blind
> students are now forced into this situation all the time.  Because of this
> lack of accountability by disabled students offices I have recently read a
> discussion where a blind student is asking how he can handle a college 
> math
> class using readers because he doesn't have a Braille math book.  No 
> sighted
> student would be expected to do college math without a print book and they
> can see the board.  During the past 20 years I am confident that we have
> spent tens of millions of dollars on disability student offices and the
> students now have less than we had in the 70's without all this money 
> having
> been spent.  Why?
>
> I  would argue that we as lawyers need to rethink our current situation 
> and
> get a handle on the legal twists and turns that brought us here.  My
> thinking is that we should begin by revisiting Plessy v. Ferguson an the 2
> law school cases which overturned Plessy.  The Supreme Court decided that
> separate but equal can never actually be equal, so Plessy was done away
> with.
>
> However, almost all the law which governs our lives, rights and
> opportunities as blind people is openly based on the notion that separate
> but unequal treatment for us is acceptable.  We actually spend most of our
> time as blind people asking for separate but unequal treatment as an
> accommodation.  Women, blacks, and gays do not do this.  They are clear 
> that
> separate is always unequal and they are having none of it.
>
> Consider this.  When I was in law school an issue arose concerning women 
> law
> school students.  For some reason there is a shower in one of the men's
> restrooms at the University of Chicago Law School.  The law school was 
> built
> in the 50's before there were many if any women law students.  There are
> certainly women's restrooms, but none with a shower.
>
> Men and women alike have taken in recent years to exercising while at 
> school
> and some of them wish to shower after they run or exercise.  This is not a
> problem for men since there is a shower, but what can women do?  It was
> initially proposed that women could go over to the main campus to the gym
> and shower there.  This is about 4 blocks from the law school across the
> midway.  This was a no go as far as women were concerned.  They asked why
> should they have to go a total of 8 blocks round trip to shower when men
> could shower without leaving the law school?  At first the administration
> argued that since women needed to shower because they were already
> exercising then why wouldn't they be willing to go across campus since a
> little additional exercise was all that was being proposed?  However, the
> universal consensus of men and women alike based on common sense and basic
> fairness was that this was not acceptable.  It was viewed as pretty much
> obvious that it would be unfair to expect women to have to do more than 
> men
> when they engaged in the same activity as men.  I dare say that those
> reading this would probably agree and I'm asking you to keep on that same
> fairness hat when you consider the following question.
>
> Why is it fair for a blind person to have to take twice as long on an exam
> as a sighted person in order to obtain an equivalent valid score?  My 
> claim
> is that it is not fair and women would not put up with it for a second.
> Women would tell you to figure out how to do it with out them taking on 
> any
> burden which is greater than that of men.  They would be right.  As a 
> matter
> of testing science and methodology it is possible to create an exam which
> blind people could take in the same length of time which would be equally
> valid, but it is not being done because we have permitted them to dump the
> burden of accommodation on us rather than requiring them to spend more 
> money
> validating their standardized tests.
>
> Would a professional quarterback ever be expected to play football in an
> important game with a center that he has never had the opportunity to
> practice with?  No.  This would be regarded as absurd and totally unfair.
> Yet we are expected to work with readers on exams that our entire futures
> and jobs are dependent upon; with readers who we've never met, tested or
> practiced with and who often can not even read English aloud accurately.
> Women would not put up with this.  Blacks would not put up with this.  We
> do, and the reason we do is that we feel powerless to do anything about 
> it.
> We have come to think like Blanche in A Streetcar Named Desire, that we 
> must
> depend on the kindness of strangers.
>
> I worked for 5 years for a very large law firm, and we never ourselves, 
> nor
> did we ever advise our clients to depend on the kindness of the other 
> side.
> The parties on the other side wanted to win because they wanted their own
> way, and our clients also wanted to win because they wanted their own way.
> There was no kindness on either side and that is how it should be in 
> matters
> of law.  As lawyers it is our mandated responsibility to zealously 
> represent
> our clients which means it is our job to fight them with everything we 
> have
> to make certain that our clients win.  That's what lawyers do.  We are
> privileged to be lawyers.  We have one power that no one else has.  As all
> non lawyers must acknowledge, you can write thousands of letters to 
> someone
> trying to get them to talk with you and they can throw them in the trash.
> You can light up their switchboard all day long with phone calls and they
> can tell the operator to say that they are not in.  However, we as lawyers
> have the power to force them to talk with us simply by serving a complaint
> on them and they will definitely talk with us in front of a judge.  They
> will not ignore that.
>
> I'm sure I have offended some, bored most, and confused others.  But if 
> you
> are a lawyer and I have struck a chord with you and reawakened for a 
> moment
> a memory of why you went to law school to begin with, please contact me. 
> We
> have the knowledge and the power to make real change for blind people if 
> we
> choose to come together like the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and B'nai 
> B'rith.
> Thanks for reading and I hope to talk with you.
>
> Warmest regards,
> Dennis
> _______________________________________________
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>
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obal.net 


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From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 09:25:00 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 03:25:00 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <3E471724B9A74DD0A276766E4CD522AA@blind.state.ia.us>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike><5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net><8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike><fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com><FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC><137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC><13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>	<A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC>
	<3E471724B9A74DD0A276766E4CD522AA@blind.state.ia.us>
Message-ID: <15d701ca9432$4859c9c0$d90d5d40$@com>

Very valid.  What are these horrible institutions though.  I would like to
know.  I'm really glad that you named the good ones.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Tai Blas
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 7:06 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

Steve,

I respectfully disagree. I have heard folks say that the NFB centers only
take the "cream of the crop," not those whom you call "hard-luck" with
additional challenges who have a difficult time at other centers. I have
attended an NFB training center and the fact is that they take students of
all abilities and do an excellent job of rehabilitating them. These centers
do not pick and choose. The same cannot be said for most state centers,
Hawaii, Iowa, Nebraska, New Mexico, BISM, and Kris Cole, and possibly a few
others excluded. Some states, Utah included, are genuinely striving to
improve training and adjustment services for their blind clients. If you
placed a "hard-luck" client with sufficient motivation in a low-performing
state center and then placed them at an NFB training center or in one of the
high-performing state centers I mentioned above, they would progress and
improve much more at the NFB or NFB-model training center than in the
low-performing state center. Employment statistics highlight those centers
and agencies that are performing well in this regard and I am not talking
about placements in sheltered employment.

State VR programs pay for their clients to attend centers, whether in state
or out of state. They save no money by sending clients to a low-performing
center, only to have that client come back in two years having lost their
job and needing additional training. The program quality of high-performing
centers and the long-term benefits they provide to clients is worth any
difference in cost. Often, the difference between the difference in cost
between attending state centers and attending NFB centers is negligible.
These centers are not as expensive as you might think.

Tai

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:29 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB centers
compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the
hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to make
it in a NFB run center.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the 
> quality of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer 
> and the state is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive 
> some of the non-NFB programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a 
> lot of money by maintaining the status quo.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for 
>> the state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency 
>> is always trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>
>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states 
>> would crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  
>> It's been my experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not 
>> sure why there is no money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what 
>> I've experienced.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the 
>>> local NFB chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about 
>>> blindness.
>>> There
>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>
>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  
>>> They are tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>
>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, 
>>> then they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting 
>>> money on frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness 
>>> center, funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB 
>>> centers at those same tax payers expense.  That is just not right or 
>>> fiscally possible..  If the NFB wants these clients from states with 
>>> blindness centers in place to attend NFB centers, they should 
>>> establish scholarships or pay the way with NFB funding.  The 
>>> budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States with 
>>> blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is 
>>> like saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a 
>>> consumer to attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, 
>>> there limitedf resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer 
>>> wants to attend a private college, they need to pay the difference 
>>> or get scholarships to makeup the difference from what a state 
>>> agency is able to pay.  Usually, state agencies will pay for blind 
>>> consumers to attend in-state institutions.
>>>
>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must 
>>> make up the difference.  The same should go for the consumer 
>>> attending a NFB center if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to 
>>>> them in person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is 
>>>> really not going to do much.
>>>>
>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell 
>>>> them why it doesn't work explain it to them because they have no 
>>>> idea why things do not work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency 
>>>>> does not want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab 
>>>>> centers such as the NFB centers and rehab clients have had to 
>>>>> request hearings and other things to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state 
>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend 
>>>>>> National Federation of the blind training centers and they should 
>>>>>> be fully paid for by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please 
>>>>>> rewrite...."
>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is 
>>>>>> being experienced?
>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South 
>>>>>> Florida mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee 
>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 
>>>>>> 1993-2005 www.ada.gov Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence 
>>>>>> Against Women, USDOJ www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this 
>>>>>> have little if any real effect with Congress. It is much more 
>>>>>> effective to use a system of actual letters that can 
>>>>>> electronically be submitted to members of Congress and/or state 
>>>>>> legislators. Working with many groups as a consultant on 
>>>>>> legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While 
>>>>>> consumers definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend 
>>>>>> facilities of their choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 
>>>>>> 1973 or any other legislation will not get rewritten using this 
>>>>>> format.
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-a
>> ct-1973
>>> /
>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40
>> sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40po
>> box.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40
>> sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>> for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gm
>> ail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deel
>> ey%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>> 01/11/10
>>> 07:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse0
>> 8%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deel
>> ey%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>> 01/12/10
>> 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse0
>> 8%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40
>> sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele
> y%40insightbb.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.137/2617 - Release Date: 01/12/10
19:35:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.c
om


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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il.com



From david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us  Wed Jan 13 14:24:26 2010
From: david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us (Hyde, David W. (ESC))
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 08:24:26 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Colored Canes
Message-ID: <8FE3DA4A52652B4D8EC80883B3DC12336733A91CB1@tiger>

I have a request for information from a colleague. Recently, a Canadian firm has begun marketing canes for blind persons in various colors. Most states have laws specifically recognizing white canes, white canes with red tips or (see Oregon statutes) white canes with chartreuse tips for the deaf blind. Now, by applying the law excluding contributory negligence (e.g. the failure to use a can or dog guide is not considered evidence of negligence on the part of the blind person) the colored canes might be included defacto. Does anyone know whether either U.S. or for that matter, other law has included canes of a solid color other than white?

Thanks, folks. Seeing Michael Freeman on here, I know that I'm not the only non-lawyer on here.


David Hyde, Professional Development Coordinator Wisconsin Center for the Blind and Visually Impaired 1700 W. State Street Janesville WI 53546

608-758-6152 (office)

608-751-0960 (cell)

608-758-6169 (fax)

866-284-1107 ext. 34 (toll free)

email

david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan 13 20:39:37 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:39:37 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <15ce01ca9430$d2aaa420$77ffec60$@com>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike><5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net><8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike><fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com><FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC><137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC><13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>	<A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC><A1F958204EA643E28FC08D017343D0AC@spike>
	<15ce01ca9430$d2aaa420$77ffec60$@com>
Message-ID: <6A5758A433EB4E3ABC5E1A06DC8D5C25@spike>

I was referring to those people who have had many opportunities to learn 
what they needed to do and chose not to avail themselves of the options 
available to them. As we know there are some people who will use their 
disabilities in ways that are opportunistic. I know that having been born 
blind it is sometimes easy to forget the impact of adjustment that someone 
goes through when they have lost vision.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> Are we talking about persons with brand new blindness?  I hope not. 
> People
> can't start out knowing everything to do...there is a process.  After
> awhile, you shouldn't need that but at the beginning there is quite a bit 
> of
> psychological retraining.  So, I hope we aren't talking about the 
> beginning
> stages...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:01 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> dthat's a valid point as many consumers expect their hands to be held 
> every
> step of the way and beyond.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>>I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB 
>>centers
>
>>compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the
>>hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to make
>>it in a NFB run center.
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the
>>> quality
>>> of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the
>>> state
>>> is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the non-NFB
>>> programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by
>>> maintaining the status quo.
>>> Chuck
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for 
>>>> the
>>>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is
>>>> always
>>>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>>>
>>>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states
>>>> would
>>>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been
>>>> my
>>>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is
>>>> no
>>>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local
>>>>> NFB
>>>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>>>> There
>>>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not. 
>>>>> They
>>>>> are
>>>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution,
>>>>> then
>>>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness 
>>>>> center,
>>>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>>>>> same
>>>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>>>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>>>> with
>>>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.
>>>>> States
>>>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB
>>>>> centers.
>>>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>>>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer 
>>>>> to
>>>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend 
>>>>> a
>>>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships 
>>>>> to
>>>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.
>>>>> Usually,
>>>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>>>> institutions.
>>>>>
>>>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must 
>>>>> make
>>>>> up
>>>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>>>> center
>>>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not 
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them
>>>>>> why
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> James
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency 
>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such 
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>>>> agencies
>>>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>>>> National
>>>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully
>>>>>>>> paid
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is 
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South 
>>>>>>>> Florida
>>>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use 
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members 
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>>>> /
>>>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ----
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>>>> 01/11/10
>>>>> 07:35:00
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>>>> 01/12/10
>>>> 07:35:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>>> il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.137/2617 - Release Date:
>> 01/12/10 19:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 20:44:55 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 14:44:55 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <6A5758A433EB4E3ABC5E1A06DC8D5C25@spike>
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike><5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net><8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike><fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com><FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC><137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC><13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>	<A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC><A1F958204EA643E28FC08D017343D0AC@spike>	<15ce01ca9430$d2aaa420$77ffec60$@com>
	<6A5758A433EB4E3ABC5E1A06DC8D5C25@spike>
Message-ID: <015801ca9491$4434a4f0$cc9deed0$@com>

OK, thanks for clarifying that.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 2:40 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

I was referring to those people who have had many opportunities to learn 
what they needed to do and chose not to avail themselves of the options 
available to them. As we know there are some people who will use their 
disabilities in ways that are opportunistic. I know that having been born 
blind it is sometimes easy to forget the impact of adjustment that someone 
goes through when they have lost vision.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> Are we talking about persons with brand new blindness?  I hope not. 
> People
> can't start out knowing everything to do...there is a process.  After
> awhile, you shouldn't need that but at the beginning there is quite a bit 
> of
> psychological retraining.  So, I hope we aren't talking about the 
> beginning
> stages...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:01 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> dthat's a valid point as many consumers expect their hands to be held 
> every
> step of the way and beyond.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>>I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB 
>>centers
>
>>compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the
>>hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to make
>>it in a NFB run center.
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the
>>> quality
>>> of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the
>>> state
>>> is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the non-NFB
>>> programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by
>>> maintaining the status quo.
>>> Chuck
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for 
>>>> the
>>>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is
>>>> always
>>>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>>>
>>>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states
>>>> would
>>>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been
>>>> my
>>>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there is
>>>> no
>>>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the local
>>>>> NFB
>>>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>>>> There
>>>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not. 
>>>>> They
>>>>> are
>>>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution,
>>>>> then
>>>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness 
>>>>> center,
>>>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at those
>>>>> same
>>>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible..  If
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place to
>>>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>>>> with
>>>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.
>>>>> States
>>>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB
>>>>> centers.
>>>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is like
>>>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer 
>>>>> to
>>>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend 
>>>>> a
>>>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships 
>>>>> to
>>>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.
>>>>> Usually,
>>>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>>>> institutions.
>>>>>
>>>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must 
>>>>> make
>>>>> up
>>>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>>>> center
>>>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not 
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them
>>>>>> why
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> James
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency 
>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such 
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and other
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>>>> agencies
>>>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>>>> National
>>>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully
>>>>>>>> paid
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is 
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South 
>>>>>>>> Florida
>>>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this have
>>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use 
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members 
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>>>> /
>>>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ----
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>>>> 01/11/10
>>>>> 07:35:00
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>>>> 01/12/10
>>>> 07:35:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>>> il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.137/2617 - Release Date:
>> 01/12/10 19:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From b75205 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 02:26:57 2010
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:26:57 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Attorneys
In-Reply-To: <15d001ca9431$928860c0$b7992240$@com>
References: <006701ca9331$3822b640$6601a8c0@server>
	<13ff01ca93ab$a736d640$f5a482c0$@com>
	<007b01ca93fa$0dcc7290$6701a8c0@computer2>
	<15d001ca9431$928860c0$b7992240$@com>
Message-ID: <fe5b78281001131826i6f464c8bo5156649cc09474be@mail.gmail.com>

Last year I made the National Voter Registration form to be accessible to
the blind.  It was tested by the American Foundation for the Blind, the NFB
and Jim Dickson, the Vice President of the American Association of People
with Disabilities presented it to the EAC, the Elections Assistance
Commission which is in charge of elections.  They decided that their
webmaster could do the job and ignored the advice of these organizations.
The Voting Rights Division of the ACLU was monitoring this work as they
thought it was a violation of the Voting Rights Act.

The law for the Voting Rights Act is particularly effective in this case
becasue the consequences of denying the blind to register to vote is the
removal of the sovereignty of the states.  The 14th Amendment Section 2 is
invoked which strips a state of its representation in Congress when they
deny a group of people the right to vote.  Everyone who went through the
Civil Rights movement knows about Literacy tests and poll taxes and the
effect it has on oppressing the people.

the EAC still has a form that can only be partially filled out with JAWS 10
or 11.  They had that form as of September 15, 2008, before that they had an
image of a form.  Their current form violates Section 508 law, it has text
in their images and they have other problems.

But it was not only the EAC that we sent this form, we sent it to all the
states.

Washington responded by stating that they were not required to make the
voter registration form to be accessible to the blind.

So if you want a civil rights case, consider voter registration because the
EAC made voting on election day accessible but if the blind and disabled
actually showed up to vote it would be very disruptive.  The EAC is made up
of the voting officials of every state.  They are very proud that they have
increased the number of disabled people to vote to 4 million more than in
the year 2000 but of course that was the 2008 election which had a record
turn out.  But the number of the blind and disabled are around 80 million in
the US, so they are proud of a 5% increase?  The CDC is currently tracking
33.5 million americans over the age of 40 with the 6 most common eye
diseases that lead to blindness.  Cataracts are 17 million of them.  So we
must demand that the census track the blind and disabled because right now
the figures the government uses is a census study that says there are 1
million sensory disabled people in the US.  So I would tend to beleive the
cases reported by doctors over the census.

I can make interactive content accessible to teh blind using free screen
readers.  All of the content is accessible because I am driven to fix this
problem.  In High School and College I had tunnel vision.  I went to class
with a giant tape recorder that I had to carry on my back.  then I got most
of my sight back and so I looked at software and figured out what was going
wrong and I fixed it.  There is no reason why tests should be
inaccessible.  It is amazing to me.

So if you want a civil rights case with everyone in place to do the job,
here it is!  The problem here is that the civil rights lawyers do not have
the experience of the blind to teach them what is going wrong.  Together we
can force the states to be accessible and if they don't do it, they loose
their representation in Congress under the 14th amendment section 2, the
same law used in Reconstruction.

Sincerely,

James G. Pepper

From gwunder at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 14 04:02:21 2010
From: gwunder at earthlink.net (Gary Wunder)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 22:02:21 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Legislative Alert-Washington Seminar Fact Sheets
	Available
Message-ID: <auto-000135205937@mailfront1.g2host.com>


----- Original Message -----
From: Hartle, Jesse
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 1:22 PM
Subject: Legislative Alert-Washington Seminar Fact Sheets Available


Fellow Federationists:



I am writing to you to let you know that the fact 
sheets for the 2010 Washington Seminar are now on 
the NFB Web site.  They can be found on the "NFB 
2010 Washington Seminar" page at 
http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Washington_Seminar.asp. 
For your convenience, the fact sheets are also 
attached to this e-mail.  The hot issues for the 2010 seminar are:



-- Passage of the Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act;

-- Passage of a Technology Bill of Rights for the Blind; and

-- Passage of the Blind Persons Return to Work Act.



             Please review these fact sheets in 
preparation for your appointments during 
Washington Seminar.  We expect that bills related 
to the Technology Bill of Rights and a Senate 
companion bill to the Blind Persons Return to 
Work Act will soon be introduced.  When these 
bills are introduced, the fact sheets will be 
updated to include that information.



             Should you have questions, I have 
included my contact information at the bottom of 
this message.  I look forward to seeing all of 
you at Washington Seminar as we work towards 
passage of these crucial issues.  Once again, 
thank you in advance for all of your hard work.



Jesse M. Hartle

Government Programs Specialist

NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND

Phone:  (410) 659-9314, extension 2233

E-mail:  jharle at nfb.org



JMH/wmb



Attachments



Legislative Agenda of Blind Americans:

Priorities for the 111th Congress, SECOND Session





             The National Federation of the Blind 
(NFB) is the oldest and largest organization of 
blind people in the United States.  As the Voice 
of the Nation's Blind, we represent the 
collective views of blind people throughout 
society.  All of our leaders and the vast 
majority of our members are blind, but anyone can 
participate in our movement.  There are an 
estimated 1.3 million blind people in the United 
States, and every year approximately 75,000 
Americans become blind.  The social and economic 
consequences of blindness affect not only blind 
people, but also our families, our friends, and our coworkers.



             Three legislative initiatives demand 
the immediate attention of the 111th Congress in its second session:

1.                  We urge Congress to ensure 
the safety of blind and other pedestrians by 
passing the Pedestrian Safety Enhancement 
Act.  This legislation would require the U.S. Secretary of Transportation to:

· 
begin a study within ninety days of its enactment 
to determine the most practical means of assuring 
that blind and other pedestrians receive 
essentially similar information to that which 
they now receive from sound emitted by internal combustion engines;

· 
determine the minimum amount of sound necessary 
to offer sufficient information for blind 
pedestrians to make safe travel judgments, based 
on appropriate scientific research and 
consultation with blind Americans and other affected groups;

· 
within two years of beginning the study, 
promulgate a motor vehicle safety standard to 
address the needs of blind and other pedestrians 
by requiring either a minimum level of sound or 
an equally effective means of providing the same 
information as is available from hearing internal combustion engines; and

· 
apply the standard to all motor vehicles 
manufactured or sold in the United States 
beginning no later than two years after the date it is promulgated.



2.                  We urge Congress to work with 
blind Americans to create a Technology Bill of 
Rights for the Blind that mandates that consumer 
electronics, home appliances, kiosks, and 
electronic office technology provide user 
interfaces that are accessible through nonvisual 
means.  This legislation should:



· 
mandate that all consumer electronics, home 
appliances, kiosks, and electronic office 
technology be designed so that blind people can 
access the same functions as sighted people 
through nonvisual means and with substantially equivalent ease of use;



· 
create a commission comprised of essential 
stakeholders to establish standards for nonvisual 
accessibility of electronic devices intended for use in the home or office;



· 
endow the Department of Justice with the 
authority to enforce the regulations promulgated 
by the commission established by this legislation; and



· 
authorize the commission to reexamine and rewrite 
standards periodically as consumer electronic technology continues to evolve.



3.                  We urge Congress to promote 
and facilitate the transition by blind Americans 
from recipients of Social Security Disability 
Insurance benefits to income-earning, tax-paying, 
productive members of the American workforce by enacting legislation to:



·         replace the monthly earnings penalty 
with a graduated three-for-one phase-out (i.e., a 
$1 reduction in benefits for each $3 earned above the limit);



·         replace the monthly earnings test with 
an annualized earnings test in an amount equal to 
twelve times the Substantial Gainful Activity amount; and



·         establish an impairment-related work 
expense deduction for blind Social Security 
Disability Insurance beneficiaries equal to the 
amount applicable for this deduction when 
determining an appropriate income subsidy under 
Medicare Part D or 16.3 percent of earnings, whichever is greater.







             For more information about these 
priorities, please consult the attached fact sheets.



             Blind Americans need your help to 
achieve our goals of economic security, increased 
opportunity, and full integration into American 
society on a basis of equality.  Enactment of 
these legislative proposals will represent 
important steps toward reaching these goals.  We 
need the help and support of each member of 
Congress.  Our success benefits not only us, but 
the whole of America as well.  In this time of 
national economic insecurity, these measures will 
contribute to increasing the tax base and 
encouraging the purchase of consumer goods.







ENHANCING PEDESTRIAN SAFETY:

ENSURING THE BLIND CAN CONTINUE

TO TRAVEL SAFELY AND INDEPENDENTLY





Purpose:  To enact the Pedestrian Safety 
Enhancement Act, which will establish a motor 
vehicle safety standard to alert blind and other 
pedestrians of the presence of silent hybrid and electric vehicles.





Background:  Until recently independent travel 
for the blind has been a relatively simple matter 
once a blind person has been trained in travel 
techniques and has learned to use a white cane or 
to travel with a guide dog.  Blind people listen 
to the sound of automobile engines to determine 
the direction, speed, and pattern of 
traffic.  Sounds from traffic tell blind 
pedestrians how many vehicles are near them and 
how fast they are moving; whether the vehicles 
are accelerating or decelerating; and whether the 
vehicles are traveling toward, away from, or 
parallel to them.  With all of this information 
blind people can accurately determine when it is 
safe to advance into an intersection or across a 
driveway or parking lot.  The information 
obtained from listening to traffic sounds allows 
blind people to travel with complete confidence 
and without assistance.  Studies have shown that 
sighted pedestrians also use auditory information when traveling.



Over the past few years, however, vehicles that 
are completely silent in certain modes of 
operation have come on the market, and many more 
silent vehicles are expected in the near 
future.  These vehicles are designed to have many 
benefits, including improved fuel efficiency and 
reduced emissions, but they do not need to be 
silent in order to achieve these intended 
benefits.  An unintended consequence of these 
vehicles as they are currently designed is that 
they endanger the safety, not only of blind 
people, but also of small children, seniors, cyclists, and runners.





Need for Congressional Action:  For several years 
the National Federation of the Blind has been 
concerned about the proliferation of silent 
vehicles.  These concerns were validated by a 
recent report from the National Highway Traffic 
Safety Administration, which concluded that at 
low speeds hybrid and electric vehicles are twice 
as likely to be involved in accidents with 
pedestrians as vehicles with internal combustion 
engines.  Recently automobile manufacturers have 
acknowledged the dangers posed to blind 
pedestrians by silent-vehicle technology and have 
begun to work with the National Federation of the 
Blind to craft solutions.  While participation 
from some manufacturers is an important first 
step, many others continue to take a wait-and-see 
approach on this important issue.  Congress must 
therefore direct the Department of Transportation 
to take action.  It is crucial that this problem 
be addressed before the inevitable avalanche of 
tragedies involving blind people (including newly 
blinded veterans), small children, seniors, 
cyclists, and runners shocks the nation.





Proposed Legislation:  The Pedestrian Safety 
Enhancement Act (H.R. 734 and S. 841) was 
introduced by Congressmen Towns and Stearns in 
the House and by Senators Kerry and Specter in 
the Senate.  This legislation directs the 
secretary of transportation to conduct a study 
and establish a motor vehicle safety standard 
that provides a means of alerting blind and other 
pedestrians of motor vehicle operation based on 
appropriate scientific research and consultation 
with blind Americans and other affected 
groups.  This national motor vehicle safety 
standard must have the following characteristics:

   a.. In all phases of operation (including 
times when the vehicle is at a full stop), 
pedestrians must be able to identify vehicles by nonvisual means.
   b.. The motor vehicle safety standard must 
also provide pedestrians with the range of 
information that is currently provided by 
combustion engines, including whether the vehicle 
is idling, maintaining a constant speed, accelerating, or decelerating.
The standard need not prescribe the apparatus, 
technology, or method to be used by vehicle 
manufacturers to achieve the required safety 
standard.  This approach will encourage 
manufacturers to use innovative and 
cost-effective techniques to achieve the motor vehicle safety standard.

Automobiles that operate in complete silence 
endanger the safety of all of us; silent 
operation should be viewed as a design flaw 
comparable to the lack of seat belts or air bags, 
and therefore this safety issue must be addressed.





Requested Action:  Please support blind Americans 
by cosponsoring the Pedestrian Safety Enhancement 
Act to authorize the U.S. Department of 
Transportation to establish and promulgate 
regulations specifying a motor vehicle safety 
standard for all new automobiles sold in the 
United States.  In the House of Representatives 
members can be added by contacting Emily Khoury 
in Congressman Towns's office, or James Thomas in 
Congressman Stearns's office.  In the Senate 
members can be added as cosponsors by contacting 
Doug Frost in Senator Kerry's office.





Contact Information:

Jesse Hartle

Government Programs Specialist

NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND

Phone:  (410) 659-9314, extension 2233

Email:  jhartle at nfb.org







A TECHNOLOGY BILL OF RIGHTS FOR THE BLIND





Purpose:  To mandate that consumer electronics, 
home appliances, kiosks, and electronic office 
technology provide user interfaces that are 
accessible through nonvisual means.





Background:  In recent years rapid advances in 
microchip and digital technology have led to 
increasingly complex user interfaces for everyday 
products such as consumer electronics, home 
appliances, kiosks, and electronic office 
technology.  Many new devices in these categories 
require interaction with visual displays, 
on-screen menus, touch screens, and other user 
interfaces that are inaccessible to individuals 
who are blind or have low vision.  Settings on 
the stove, dishwasher, or home entertainment 
system are no longer controlled by knobs, 
switches, and buttons that can be readily 
identified and whose settings can be easily 
discerned.  Inaccessibility of these devices is a 
major barrier to a blind person's independence 
and productivity.  If a blind person cannot 
operate the interfaces of basic office equipment 
such as copiers and fax machines, this is a 
potential threat to that person's opportunity to 
join the workforce or to maintain an existing job.



Many popular nonvisual mechanisms are available 
for manufacturers to create interfaces accessible 
to everyone.  For example, text-to-speech 
technology is inexpensive and more ubiquitous 
than it has ever been-it is used in everything 
from automated telephone systems to the weather 
forecasting service broadcast by the National 
Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.  Indeed, 
a few manufacturers have incorporated this 
technology into their products to create talking 
menus or to articulate what is on the display 
screen, but many manufacturers have continued to 
design interfaces that do not include any 
nonvisual means of use, rendering the devices inaccessible to blind people.





Need for Legislation:  Currently no enforceable 
mandates exist for manufacturers of consumer 
electronics, home appliances, kiosks, and 
electronic office technology to make their 
products accessible to all consumers.  There are 
also no accessibility standards to provide 
guidance to manufacturers on how to avoid 
creating barriers to access by the blind.



Congress should therefore enact a Technology Bill 
of Rights for the Blind which:

   a.. establishes that manufacturers must create 
accessible user interfaces for their products,
   b.. provides a means for enforcement, and
   c.. establishes standards that will provide 
meaningful benchmarks that manufacturers can use 
to make their products accessible.


This legislation does not mandate a single, 
one-size-fits-all solution for all consumer 
technology, home appliances, kiosks, or 
electronic office technology.  Rather it mandates 
regulations setting meaningful accessibility 
standards that allow manufacturers to select from 
a menu of potential solutions or create new 
ones.  This will not only give manufacturers the 
freedom and flexibility they desire, but will 
also encourage innovations that make consumer 
technology more usable for everyone.





Proposed Legislation:  Congress should enact a 
Technology Bill of Rights for the Blind that:



   a.. Mandates that all consumer electronics, 
home appliances, kiosks, and electronic office 
technology be designed so that blind people are 
able to access the same functions as sighted 
people by nonvisual means and with substantially equivalent ease of use.


   a.. Creates a commission to establish 
standards for nonvisual accessibility of 
electronic devices intended for use in the home 
or office.  Such a commission should represent all stakeholders, including:
-          organizations of the blind;

-          manufacturers of consumer electronics, 
home appliances, kiosks, and electronic office 
technology, or associations representing such manufacturers; and

-          experts on universal design, 
electronic engineering, and related fields.



   a.. Endows the Department of Justice with the 
authority to enforce the regulations promulgated 
by the commission established by this legislation.


   a.. Authorizes the commission to reexamine and 
rewrite standards periodically as consumer 
electronic technology continues to evolve.




Requested Action:  Please support blind Americans 
and cosponsor a Technology Bill of Rights for the 
Blind to ensure that blind people can fully 
participate in all aspects of American 
society.  Increased access leads to increased 
independence, increased employment, and increased tax revenue.





Contact Information:

Lauren McLarney

Government Programs Specialist

NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND

Phone:  (410) 659-9314, extension 2207

Email:  lmclarney at nfb.org







REMOVING THE EARNINGS PENALTY:

A COMMON SENSE WORK INCENTIVE

FOR BLIND SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFICIARIES





Purpose:  To promote and facilitate the 
transition by blind Americans from Social 
Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) 
beneficiaries to income-earning, taxpaying, 
productive members of the American workforce.



Background:  The unemployment rate for 
working-age blind people is over 70 
percent.  Part of the reason for this 
disproportionately high statistic is the myths 
and misconceptions about the true capacities of 
blind people.  These erroneous perceptions are 
manifested when employers refuse to hire the 
blind.  Low societal expectations result in low 
representation of the blind in the workforce.

In addition, governmental programs intended to 
provide economic security to blind workers during 
periods of unemployment, especially the SSDI 
program, have had the unintended consequence of 
creating an incentive for blind people to remain 
unemployed or underemployed, despite their desire to work.

Despite the efforts of the National Federation of 
the Blind, blindness still has profound social 
and economic consequences.  Governmental programs 
should encourage blind people to reach their full 
employment potential; they should not encourage economic dependence.



Existing Law:  Title II of the Social Security 
Act provides that disability benefits paid to 
blind beneficiaries are eliminated if the 
beneficiary exceeds a monthly earnings 
limit.  This earnings limit is in effect a 
penalty imposed on blind Americans when they 
work.  This penalty imposed by the SSDI program 
means that, if a blind person earns just $1 over 
$1,640 (the monthly limit in 2010 following a 
Trial Work Period), all benefits are lost.

Section 216(i)(1)(B) of the Social Security Act 
defines blindness as a disability based on 
objective measurement of acuity and visual field, 
as opposed to the subjective criterion of 
inability to perform Substantial Gainful Activity 
(SGA).  For blind people, doing work valued at 
the SGA earnings limit terminates benefits but 
does not terminate disability.  Only blind people 
not working or those with work earnings below an 
annually adjusted statutory earnings limit receive benefits.



Need for Legislation:  When a blind person enters 
the workforce, there is no guarantee that wages 
earned will replace SSDI benefits after taxes are 
paid and work expenses are deducted.  For 
example, Jane worked as a customer service 
representative with an annual income of $35,000 
until she became blind from diabetic 
retinopathy.  Jane meets the criteria for SSDI 
benefits, which provide income of $1,060 a month 
(or $12,720 a year) tax-free while she is not 
working.  Jane wants additional income to meet 
her financial needs.  After an adjustment period 
and blindness skills training, she finds 
employment as a part-time representative making 
$10 an hour for thirty-five hours a week.  Jane 
grosses $350 a week for an average of $1,517 a 
month.  Using a conservative 25 percent 
withholding tax, Jane nets $1,137.50 from her 
work, combined with her $1,060 disability 
benefit, for a net total of  $2,197.50 a 
month.  If Jane should have the opportunity to 
work full time (forty hours), her weekly salary 
would go up to $400 a week for a monthly average 
of $1,733.  This amount is over the 2010 earnings 
limit, so Jane loses all of her disability 
benefits.  Using the same 25 percent tax level, 
Jane nets only $1,300 a month-working an extra 
five hours a week has cost Jane $897.50 net 
income (over $10,500 a year).  This example 
illustrates the work disincentive contained in current law.

A gradual reduction of $1 in benefits for every 
$3 earned over the earnings limit would remove 
the earnings penalty and provide a financial 
incentive to work.  The benefit amount paid to an 
individual will gradually decrease, while the 
individual's contribution to the Social Security 
trust fund increases over time.  Under this 
approach, as Jane earns more, she pays more into 
the trust fund, and her dependence on benefits decreases.

Monthly earnings evaluations are unnecessarily 
complicated for both the beneficiaries and the 
Social Security Administration.  Since the 
medical prognosis for blind people rarely changes 
and because blindness is objectively measurable, 
blind people should be subject to an annual 
earnings test with the limit equal to twelve 
times the applicable monthly SGA amount.

Under current law blind workers frequently pay 
for items and services related to their blindness 
that are necessary for them to work, and they are 
permitted to subtract these Impairment-Related 
Work Expenses (IRWE) from monthly earnings when 
determining monthly income.  Properly crediting 
IRWE poses a serious challenge to the SSDI 
program and creates a lack of predictability for 
the blind person trying to determine whether 
benefits will be available.  To address both 
issues, Congress should permit SSDI recipients to 
claim the same amount used when determining an 
income subsidy under the Medicare prescription 
drug program, currently 16.3 percent of earnings.



Proposed Legislation:  Congress should enact legislation to:

·                     provide that earnings of 
blind SSDI beneficiaries in excess of the annual 
earnings limit result in a gradual benefit 
reduction of $1 for each $3 earned over the limit;

·                     establish an annual 
earnings test for blind SSDI beneficiaries; and

·                     establish one standard IRWE 
deduction for blind SSDI beneficiaries equal to 
the amount presently applicable for this 
deduction when determining an appropriate income 
subsidy under the Medicare prescription drug 
program or 16.3 percent of earnings, whichever is greater.



Requested Action:  For the House, please 
cosponsor the Blind Persons Return to Work Act 
(H.R. 886) by contacting Michaeleen Crowell in 
Rep. John Lewis's office, and provide a common 
sense work incentive for blind Social Security 
beneficiaries.  For the Senate please consider 
introducing companion legislation.





Contact Information:

Lauren McLarney

Government Programs Specialist

NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND

Phone:  (410) 659-9314, extension 2207

Email:  lmclarney at nfb.org
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From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jan 14 07:31:44 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 23:31:44 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour
Message-ID: <EA109BD3F6A5461BB78D099AAF197BDC@spike>

Thought the following might be of interest.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237

A New Day: We're Listening


The US Dept. of Labor Assistant Secretary Kathleen Martinez is spearheading a Listening Tour to solicit ideas from employers and individuals with disabilities on three key topics:


1. More effective ways to increase employment of women, veterans and minorities with disabilities;
2. Identification of federal and state systems that are effectively
collaborating to achieve successful employment results for people with
disabilities; and 
3. Top priorities on which the federal government should focus to support an increase in the employment of persons with disabilities.


Six sites have been selected to provide individuals from each of the six (6)Department of Labor Regions to participate. Comments can also be submitted if individuals cannot attend in person. Locations include:


Dallas, TX - January 21, 2010
Philadelphia, PA - January 27, 2010
Chicago, IL - February 11, 2010
San Francisco, CA - February 16, 2010
Atlanta, GA - February 24, 2010
Boston, MA - March 3, 2010


More information and details regarding the events go to: 
www.disabilitylisteningtour.com.

From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jan 14 07:37:29 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 23:37:29 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] DOJ reaches three settlements regarding electronic book
	readers
Message-ID: <369B9F661601473C82BED294A44AD2AD@spike>


Department of Justice 
Office of Public Affairs

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Wednesday, January 13, 2010
Justice Department Reaches Three Settlements Under the Americans with Disabilities Act Regarding the Use of Electronic Book Readers

WASHINGTON?? The Justice Department today announced separate agreements under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) with Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Pace University in New York City and Reed College in Portland, Ore., regarding the use in a classroom setting of the electronic book reader, the Kindle DX, a hand-held technological device that simulates the experience of reading a book.

Under the agreements reached today, the universities generally will not purchase, recommend or promote use of the Kindle DX, or any other dedicated electronic book reader, unless the devices are fully accessible to students who are blind and have low vision. The universities agree that if they use dedicated electronic book readers, they will ensure that students with vision disabilities are able to access and acquire the same materials and information, engage in the same interactions, and enjoy the same services as sighted students with substantially equivalent ease of use. The agreements that the Justice Department reached with these universities extend beyond the Kindle DX to any dedicated electronic reading device.

These agreements follow the Jan. 11, 2010 agreement between the Justice Department, Arizona State University, the National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind concerning the use of electronic book readers.

"Advancing technology is systematically changing the way universities approach education, but we must be sure that emerging technologies offer individuals with disabilities the same opportunities as other students," said Assistant Attorney General Thomas E. Perez. "These agreements underscore the importance of full and equal educational opportunities for everyone."

A handful of universities participated in a pilot project in cooperation with Amazon.com Inc. to test the viability of the Kindle DX in a classroom setting. The terms of the Justice Department's agreement with each university become effective at the end of the pilot projects.

The current model of the Kindle DX has the capability to read texts aloud, so that the materials would be accessible to blind individuals, but the device does not include a similar text-to-speech function for the menu and navigational controls. Without access to the menus, students who are blind have no way to know which book they have selected or how to access the Kindle DX Web browser or its other functions. The technological "know how" to make navigational controls or menu selections accessible is available.

Other universities, such as Syracuse University and the University of Wisconsin at Madison, also examined the utility of the Kindle DX as a teaching device and decided that they would not use the Kindle DX until it is accessible to blind individuals.

In passing the ADA and the recent ADA Amendments Act, Congress found that individuals with disabilities were uniquely disadvantaged in critical areas, including education. It is a core priority of the Civil Rights Division to strengthen and expand the educational opportunities for individuals with disabilities.

The ADA prohibits discrimination by public accommodations on the basis of disability, including discrimination in private post-secondary institutions. Those interested in finding out more about these agreements or seeking information about and how to comply with the ADA can call the Justice Department's toll-free ADA Information Line at (800) 514-0301 or (800) 514-0383 (TDD), or access its ADA Web site at http://www.ada.gov.

10-030
Civil Rights Division







      

From pattichang at att.net  Thu Jan 14 12:42:11 2010
From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory-Chang)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 06:42:11 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike><5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net><8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike><fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com><FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC><137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC><13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>	<A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC><3E471724B9A74DD0A276766E4CD522AA@blind.state.ia.us>
	<15d701ca9432$4859c9c0$d90d5d40$@com>
Message-ID: <FE668D0CBCD44FCCA39BACDBBEF2CCD1@D3J75Z91>

Illinois has a center called ICREWOOD which has serious issues from 
cleanliness to very low expectations.

We have sent people there and then to Blind Inc.  The difference is amazing.

P.S.  National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at 
www.twitter.com/nfbi.
We also have a facebook page.  Just search for our full name.

Patti Gregory-Chang
President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois
pattichang at att.net
www.nfbofillinois.org
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:25 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> Very valid.  What are these horrible institutions though.  I would like to
> know.  I'm really glad that you named the good ones.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Tai Blas
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 7:06 PM
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> Steve,
>
> I respectfully disagree. I have heard folks say that the NFB centers only
> take the "cream of the crop," not those whom you call "hard-luck" with
> additional challenges who have a difficult time at other centers. I have
> attended an NFB training center and the fact is that they take students of
> all abilities and do an excellent job of rehabilitating them. These 
> centers
> do not pick and choose. The same cannot be said for most state centers,
> Hawaii, Iowa, Nebraska, New Mexico, BISM, and Kris Cole, and possibly a 
> few
> others excluded. Some states, Utah included, are genuinely striving to
> improve training and adjustment services for their blind clients. If you
> placed a "hard-luck" client with sufficient motivation in a low-performing
> state center and then placed them at an NFB training center or in one of 
> the
> high-performing state centers I mentioned above, they would progress and
> improve much more at the NFB or NFB-model training center than in the
> low-performing state center. Employment statistics highlight those centers
> and agencies that are performing well in this regard and I am not talking
> about placements in sheltered employment.
>
> State VR programs pay for their clients to attend centers, whether in 
> state
> or out of state. They save no money by sending clients to a low-performing
> center, only to have that client come back in two years having lost their
> job and needing additional training. The program quality of 
> high-performing
> centers and the long-term benefits they provide to clients is worth any
> difference in cost. Often, the difference between the difference in cost
> between attending state centers and attending NFB centers is negligible.
> These centers are not as expensive as you might think.
>
> Tai
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:29 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
> I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB 
> centers
> compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the
> hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to make
> it in a NFB run center.
> Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the
>> quality of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer
>> and the state is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive
>> some of the non-NFB programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a
>> lot of money by maintaining the status quo.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for
>>> the state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency
>>> is always trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>>
>>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states
>>> would crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.
>>> It's been my experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not
>>> sure why there is no money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what
>>> I've experienced.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the
>>>> local NFB chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about
>>>> blindness.
>>>> There
>>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>>
>>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.
>>>> They are tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>>
>>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution,
>>>> then they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting
>>>> money on frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness
>>>> center, funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB
>>>> centers at those same tax payers expense.  That is just not right or
>>>> fiscally possible..  If the NFB wants these clients from states with
>>>> blindness centers in place to attend NFB centers, they should
>>>> establish scholarships or pay the way with NFB funding.  The
>>>> budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States with
>>>> blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is
>>>> like saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a
>>>> consumer to attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again,
>>>> there limitedf resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer
>>>> wants to attend a private college, they need to pay the difference
>>>> or get scholarships to makeup the difference from what a state
>>>> agency is able to pay.  Usually, state agencies will pay for blind
>>>> consumers to attend in-state institutions.
>>>>
>>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must
>>>> make up the difference.  The same should go for the consumer
>>>> attending a NFB center if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to
>>>>> them in person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is
>>>>> really not going to do much.
>>>>>
>>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell
>>>>> them why it doesn't work explain it to them because they have no
>>>>> idea why things do not work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>>
>>>>> James
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency
>>>>>> does not want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab
>>>>>> centers such as the NFB centers and rehab clients have had to
>>>>>> request hearings and other things to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>>> agencies
>>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>>> National Federation of the blind training centers and they should
>>>>>>> be fully paid for by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please
>>>>>>> rewrite...."
>>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is
>>>>>>> being experienced?
>>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South
>>>>>>> Florida mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice
>>>>>>> 1993-2005 www.ada.gov Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence
>>>>>>> Against Women, USDOJ www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this
>>>>>>> have little if any real effect with Congress. It is much more
>>>>>>> effective to use a system of actual letters that can
>>>>>>> electronically be submitted to members of Congress and/or state
>>>>>>> legislators. Working with many groups as a consultant on
>>>>>>> legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>>> consumers definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend
>>>>>>> facilities of their choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of
>>>>>>> 1973 or any other legislation will not get rewritten using this
>>>>>>> format.
>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-a
>>> ct-1973
>>>> /
>>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40
>>> sbcglob
>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40po
>>> box.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40
>>> sbcglob
>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gm
>>> ail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deel
>>> ey%40in
>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------
>>>> ----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>>> 01/11/10
>>>> 07:35:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse0
>>> 8%40gma
>>>> il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deel
>>> ey%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>>> 01/12/10
>>> 07:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse0
>>> 8%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40
>>> sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele
>> y%40insightbb.com
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.137/2617 - Release Date: 
> 01/12/10
> 19:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net 



From MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com  Thu Jan 14 17:19:30 2010
From: MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com (Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:19:30 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
References: <00c201ca9107$d1bacf80$0301a8c0@alexdesktopcph8e6hjk><C401F63902D7431E8ADBABAE30F47924@spike><5A25DC99048B6F43BF1B0D75457F7C6924D7F3907B@EXVMBX016-1.exch016.msoutlookonline.net><8643251EADC1442A96BCC128DA5C6DB1@spike><fe5b78281001110958y5cd8149dv576a6c88105cc75f@mail.gmail.com><FF37CFBF49DE48358110B28052A5E214@StevePC><137901ca9366$11a6ece0$34f4c6a0$@com><1DF78A9CF711445F8BFA969ED48F68C6@StevePC><13e901ca93a5$3bd8a0a0$b389e1e0$@com><F3D1DB2E1AB949DDB12053949C6B2589@spike>	<A079D83BF0E64D29A0331E59BE5F73D5@StevePC><A1F958204EA643E28FC08D017343D0AC@spike><15ce01ca9430$d2aaa420$77ffec60$@com>
	<6A5758A433EB4E3ABC5E1A06DC8D5C25@spike>
Message-ID: <017101ca953d$bc911990$0301a8c0@youra9279112e3>

I mean both newly blind persons and persons who have been blind all their 
lives
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


>I was referring to those people who have had many opportunities to learn 
>what they needed to do and chose not to avail themselves of the options 
>available to them. As we know there are some people who will use their 
>disabilities in ways that are opportunistic. I know that having been born 
>blind it is sometimes easy to forget the impact of adjustment that someone 
>goes through when they have lost vision.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> Are we talking about persons with brand new blindness?  I hope not. 
>> People
>> can't start out knowing everything to do...there is a process.  After
>> awhile, you shouldn't need that but at the beginning there is quite a bit 
>> of
>> psychological retraining.  So, I hope we aren't talking about the 
>> beginning
>> stages...
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:01 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> dthat's a valid point as many consumers expect their hands to be held 
>> every
>> step of the way and beyond.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>>I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB 
>>>centers
>>
>>>compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the
>>>hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to 
>>>make
>>>it in a NFB run center.
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the
>>>> quality
>>>> of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the
>>>> state
>>>> is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the 
>>>> non-NFB
>>>> programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by
>>>> maintaining the status quo.
>>>> Chuck
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for 
>>>>> the
>>>>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is
>>>>> always
>>>>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>>>>
>>>>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states
>>>>> would
>>>>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been
>>>>> my
>>>>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there 
>>>>> is
>>>>> no
>>>>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the 
>>>>>> local
>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>>>>> There
>>>>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not. 
>>>>>> They
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution,
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>>>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness 
>>>>>> center,
>>>>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at 
>>>>>> those
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible.. 
>>>>>> If
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.
>>>>>> States
>>>>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB
>>>>>> centers.
>>>>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is 
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>>>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.
>>>>>> Usually,
>>>>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>>>>> institutions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must 
>>>>>> make
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>>>>> center
>>>>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not 
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> much.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them
>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> James
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency 
>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such 
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and 
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>>>>> agencies
>>>>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>>>>> National
>>>>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully
>>>>>>>>> paid
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is 
>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training 
>>>>>>>>> Centers?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South 
>>>>>>>>> Florida
>>>>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this 
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use 
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members 
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>>>>> /
>>>>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.134/2613 - Release Date:
>>>>>> 01/11/10
>>>>>> 07:35:00
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>>>>> il.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ----
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.136/2616 - Release Date:
>>>>> 01/12/10
>>>>> 07:35:00
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.137/2617 - Release Date:
>>> 01/12/10 19:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/misteralexanderscottkaiser10301990%40gmx.com 



From MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com  Thu Jan 14 17:29:38 2010
From: MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com (Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:29:38 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
Message-ID: <033901ca9543$37179400$0301a8c0@youra9279112e3>

I mean both newly blind persons and those persons who have been blind all of their lives.

From b75205 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 22:21:46 2010
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:21:46 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour
In-Reply-To: <EA109BD3F6A5461BB78D099AAF197BDC@spike>
References: <EA109BD3F6A5461BB78D099AAF197BDC@spike>
Message-ID: <fe5b78281001141421i767ba4efm89fb9170c047153f@mail.gmail.com>

Cool Charles!  And they are in a convenient location too!  Usually these
things are out in the middle of nowhere or at the airport so this is going
to be good!  People will actually be able to get to them!

James Pepper

From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jan 15 02:09:18 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:09:18 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78281001141421i767ba4efm89fb9170c047153f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EA109BD3F6A5461BB78D099AAF197BDC@spike>
	<fe5b78281001141421i767ba4efm89fb9170c047153f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <08727A47C5054CC3A37C7ED72E3EB079@spike>

glad to know it works.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour


> Cool Charles!  And they are in a convenient location too!  Usually these
> things are out in the middle of nowhere or at the airport so this is going
> to be good!  People will actually be able to get to them!
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From jazenmazen at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 15 23:21:34 2010
From: jazenmazen at yahoo.com (Mazen)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 18:21:34 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
Message-ID: <003f01ca9639$7f652dc0$7e2f8940$@com>

Dear All,

 

I wanted to let you know that the Civil Rights division at the US Department
of Justice has been allocated over 100 new positions over half of which are
for attorneys. over the coming weeks the Division will be advertizing for
experienced attorney positions and support staff positions in all the
Sections of the Division. To learn more about the Civil Rights Division
please visit http://justice.gov/crt/ or contact me for informational
purposes only. Please check the Division's website, usajobs.gov or usdoj.gov
for information on specific positions or how to apply.

 

Sincerely,

 

Mazen M. Basrawi

Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General

Civil Rights Division

United States Dept. of Justice

Tel: 202-305-1876 

e-mail: mazen.basrawi at usdoj.gov 

 

 


From shaunreim at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 06:04:59 2010
From: shaunreim at gmail.com (ShaunR)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 23:04:59 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] New to the List
Message-ID: <7805eb4d1001152204tf9339a6v13d6a2d7c36f834f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I'm new to Blind Law, and I'm wondering if some of you might take a
few moments to answer a handful of questions.

First of all, I am interested in joining the National Association of
Blind Lawyers, but when I do a Google search, I am directed to this
list. Does joining this list constitute membership? Is there an
official enrollment apart from this list? Events? Newsletters?

Second, I am in the process of applying to law schools. I live in
Utah, and I'm applying at the UofU. I'll also be applying at the
University of Washington, University of Minnesota, and Gonzaga
University. I have RP, and have been legally blind for some time now.
Can anyone share what their law school experience was like as a
visually-impaired student? How about your experiences searching for
work after school? Are there areas of the law that are "easier" to
find employment in as a vision impaired attorney? If so, what are
they?

I am just starting down this road, and I would love to hear stories
from fellow blind people about all aspects of the field of law.

Thanks!
Shaun Reimers


From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net  Sat Jan 16 15:23:32 2010
From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 10:23:32 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] New to the List
In-Reply-To: <7805eb4d1001152204tf9339a6v13d6a2d7c36f834f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7805eb4d1001152204tf9339a6v13d6a2d7c36f834f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <63FCABE312B849C6969024517780C6AB@14bd0130080a469>

Shaun,
You are so wise doing this.  I lost my sight in my last year of law school,
so missed some advanced preparation that might have softened that blow.  My
word of caution is be careful about private schools.  Pepperdine was not a
pleasant experience- putting it mildly.  State schools are not perfect, but
are generally better prepared for students with disabilities so that
includes blind ones.  I'm still figuring out answers to several of the
questions you pose.  I'm willing to offer what I can, or just listen.  Call
or message me with contact information if you wish

Cathryn (703-553-0477) 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ShaunR
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:05 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blindlaw] New to the List

Hello,

I'm new to Blind Law, and I'm wondering if some of you might take a
few moments to answer a handful of questions.

First of all, I am interested in joining the National Association of
Blind Lawyers, but when I do a Google search, I am directed to this
list. Does joining this list constitute membership? Is there an
official enrollment apart from this list? Events? Newsletters?

Second, I am in the process of applying to law schools. I live in
Utah, and I'm applying at the UofU. I'll also be applying at the
University of Washington, University of Minnesota, and Gonzaga
University. I have RP, and have been legally blind for some time now.
Can anyone share what their law school experience was like as a
visually-impaired student? How about your experiences searching for
work after school? Are there areas of the law that are "easier" to
find employment in as a vision impaired attorney? If so, what are
they?

I am just starting down this road, and I would love to hear stories
from fellow blind people about all aspects of the field of law.

Thanks!
Shaun Reimers

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4
0verizon.net
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.140/2621 - Release Date: 01/15/10
12:47:00



From rumpole at roadrunner.com  Sat Jan 16 17:14:23 2010
From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:14:23 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
References: <003f01ca9639$7f652dc0$7e2f8940$@com>
Message-ID: <60B647BC29BB48D1B2FDAEABE15EB90C@none8a46117901>

If anyone on this list forks for DHS, could they please contact me off list? 
I have a question about their web site.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mazen" <jazenmazen at yahoo.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:21 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree


> Dear All,
>
>
>
> I wanted to let you know that the Civil Rights division at the US 
> Department
> of Justice has been allocated over 100 new positions over half of which 
> are
> for attorneys. over the coming weeks the Division will be advertizing for
> experienced attorney positions and support staff positions in all the
> Sections of the Division. To learn more about the Civil Rights Division
> please visit http://justice.gov/crt/ or contact me for informational
> purposes only. Please check the Division's website, usajobs.gov or 
> usdoj.gov
> for information on specific positions or how to apply.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Mazen M. Basrawi
>
> Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General
>
> Civil Rights Division
>
> United States Dept. of Justice
>
> Tel: 202-305-1876
>
> e-mail: mazen.basrawi at usdoj.gov
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date: 01/16/10 
07:35:00



From k7uij at panix.com  Sat Jan 16 18:06:06 2010
From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 10:06:06 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
References: <003f01ca9639$7f652dc0$7e2f8940$@com>
	<60B647BC29BB48D1B2FDAEABE15EB90C@none8a46117901>
Message-ID: <A1ADC66A316B413F8D864B1595BF9C9A@owner1e06aeb63>

Ben Prows Bennett.Prows at dhs.gov works for DHS.

Mike Freeman, President
NFB of Washington

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ross Doerr" <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree


> If anyone on this list forks for DHS, could they please contact me off 
> list? I have a question about their web site.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mazen" <jazenmazen at yahoo.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:21 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>>
>>
>> I wanted to let you know that the Civil Rights division at the US 
>> Department
>> of Justice has been allocated over 100 new positions over half of which 
>> are
>> for attorneys. over the coming weeks the Division will be advertizing for
>> experienced attorney positions and support staff positions in all the
>> Sections of the Division. To learn more about the Civil Rights Division
>> please visit http://justice.gov/crt/ or contact me for informational
>> purposes only. Please check the Division's website, usajobs.gov or 
>> usdoj.gov
>> for information on specific positions or how to apply.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>>
>>
>> Mazen M. Basrawi
>>
>> Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General
>>
>> Civil Rights Division
>>
>> United States Dept. of Justice
>>
>> Tel: 202-305-1876
>>
>> e-mail: mazen.basrawi at usdoj.gov
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date: 
> 01/16/10 07:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com 



From rumpole at roadrunner.com  Sat Jan 16 19:38:28 2010
From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 14:38:28 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
References: <003f01ca9639$7f652dc0$7e2f8940$@com><60B647BC29BB48D1B2FDAEABE15EB90C@none8a46117901>
	<A1ADC66A316B413F8D864B1595BF9C9A@owner1e06aeb63>
Message-ID: <71AE8CAB317E40E5AE51F21CE41DD146@none8a46117901>

Thanks Mike, I appreciate it

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree


> Ben Prows Bennett.Prows at dhs.gov works for DHS.
>
> Mike Freeman, President
> NFB of Washington
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ross Doerr" <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>
>
>> If anyone on this list forks for DHS, could they please contact me off
>> list? I have a question about their web site.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mazen" <jazenmazen at yahoo.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:21 PM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>>
>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I wanted to let you know that the Civil Rights division at the US
>>> Department
>>> of Justice has been allocated over 100 new positions over half of which
>>> are
>>> for attorneys. over the coming weeks the Division will be advertizing 
>>> for
>>> experienced attorney positions and support staff positions in all the
>>> Sections of the Division. To learn more about the Civil Rights Division
>>> please visit http://justice.gov/crt/ or contact me for informational
>>> purposes only. Please check the Division's website, usajobs.gov or
>>> usdoj.gov
>>> for information on specific positions or how to apply.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mazen M. Basrawi
>>>
>>> Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General
>>>
>>> Civil Rights Division
>>>
>>> United States Dept. of Justice
>>>
>>> Tel: 202-305-1876
>>>
>>> e-mail: mazen.basrawi at usdoj.gov
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date:
>> 01/16/10 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date: 01/16/10 
07:35:00



From k7uij at panix.com  Sat Jan 16 20:25:23 2010
From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:25:23 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
References: <003f01ca9639$7f652dc0$7e2f8940$@com><60B647BC29BB48D1B2FDAEABE15EB90C@none8a46117901>
	<A1ADC66A316B413F8D864B1595BF9C9A@owner1e06aeb63>
Message-ID: <3CD1D9B30EA542068159B0F7A1D83705@owner1e06aeb63>

Correction:

Mr. Prows works for the Federal government at *HHS!* He is 
Bennett.Prows at hhs.gov. Sorry for the kipper!

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree


> Ben Prows Bennett.Prows at dhs.gov works for DHS.
>
> Mike Freeman, President
> NFB of Washington
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ross Doerr" <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>
>
>> If anyone on this list forks for DHS, could they please contact me off 
>> list? I have a question about their web site.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mazen" <jazenmazen at yahoo.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:21 PM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>>
>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I wanted to let you know that the Civil Rights division at the US 
>>> Department
>>> of Justice has been allocated over 100 new positions over half of which 
>>> are
>>> for attorneys. over the coming weeks the Division will be advertizing 
>>> for
>>> experienced attorney positions and support staff positions in all the
>>> Sections of the Division. To learn more about the Civil Rights Division
>>> please visit http://justice.gov/crt/ or contact me for informational
>>> purposes only. Please check the Division's website, usajobs.gov or 
>>> usdoj.gov
>>> for information on specific positions or how to apply.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mazen M. Basrawi
>>>
>>> Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General
>>>
>>> Civil Rights Division
>>>
>>> United States Dept. of Justice
>>>
>>> Tel: 202-305-1876
>>>
>>> e-mail: mazen.basrawi at usdoj.gov
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date: 
>> 01/16/10 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com 



From rumpole at roadrunner.com  Sat Jan 16 21:08:37 2010
From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:08:37 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
References: <003f01ca9639$7f652dc0$7e2f8940$@com><60B647BC29BB48D1B2FDAEABE15EB90C@none8a46117901>
	<A1ADC66A316B413F8D864B1595BF9C9A@owner1e06aeb63>
Message-ID: <8059890EAA784612A9FE9E95959E54B1@none8a46117901>

Mike, perhaps Ben has changed his email addr3ess, the DHS postmaster 
returned my message stating that there is no such user.
I checked the email address and I did it right, so either they only acept 
emails during regular business hours, or Ben has a different email now?
I'll post a question to him on the NFB site if you think that would be best.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree


> Ben Prows Bennett.Prows at dhs.gov works for DHS.
>
> Mike Freeman, President
> NFB of Washington
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ross Doerr" <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>
>
>> If anyone on this list forks for DHS, could they please contact me off
>> list? I have a question about their web site.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mazen" <jazenmazen at yahoo.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:21 PM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>>
>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I wanted to let you know that the Civil Rights division at the US
>>> Department
>>> of Justice has been allocated over 100 new positions over half of which
>>> are
>>> for attorneys. over the coming weeks the Division will be advertizing 
>>> for
>>> experienced attorney positions and support staff positions in all the
>>> Sections of the Division. To learn more about the Civil Rights Division
>>> please visit http://justice.gov/crt/ or contact me for informational
>>> purposes only. Please check the Division's website, usajobs.gov or
>>> usdoj.gov
>>> for information on specific positions or how to apply.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mazen M. Basrawi
>>>
>>> Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General
>>>
>>> Civil Rights Division
>>>
>>> United States Dept. of Justice
>>>
>>> Tel: 202-305-1876
>>>
>>> e-mail: mazen.basrawi at usdoj.gov
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date:
>> 01/16/10 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date: 01/16/10 
07:35:00



From MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com  Sat Jan 16 22:39:45 2010
From: MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com (Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 17:39:45 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
Message-ID: <012001ca96fc$cddb8080$0301a8c0@youra9279112e3>

please read and sign this petition
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2796/help-with-rewriting-united-statess-america-rehabilitation-act-197/ 

From k7uij at panix.com  Sat Jan 16 23:04:49 2010
From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 15:04:49 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
References: <003f01ca9639$7f652dc0$7e2f8940$@com><60B647BC29BB48D1B2FDAEABE15EB90C@none8a46117901><A1ADC66A316B413F8D864B1595BF9C9A@owner1e06aeb63>
	<8059890EAA784612A9FE9E95959E54B1@none8a46117901>
Message-ID: <346441506EBF4DF3A93466518CC26814@owner1e06aeb63>

AS you will see, I goofed. His address is Bennet.Prows at hhs.gov.

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ross Doerr" <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree


> Mike, perhaps Ben has changed his email addr3ess, the DHS postmaster 
> returned my message stating that there is no such user.
> I checked the email address and I did it right, so either they only acept 
> emails during regular business hours, or Ben has a different email now?
> I'll post a question to him on the NFB site if you think that would be 
> best.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>
>
>> Ben Prows Bennett.Prows at dhs.gov works for DHS.
>>
>> Mike Freeman, President
>> NFB of Washington
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Ross Doerr" <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:14 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>>
>>
>>> If anyone on this list forks for DHS, could they please contact me off
>>> list? I have a question about their web site.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Mazen" <jazenmazen at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:21 PM
>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear All,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wanted to let you know that the Civil Rights division at the US
>>>> Department
>>>> of Justice has been allocated over 100 new positions over half of which
>>>> are
>>>> for attorneys. over the coming weeks the Division will be advertizing 
>>>> for
>>>> experienced attorney positions and support staff positions in all the
>>>> Sections of the Division. To learn more about the Civil Rights Division
>>>> please visit http://justice.gov/crt/ or contact me for informational
>>>> purposes only. Please check the Division's website, usajobs.gov or
>>>> usdoj.gov
>>>> for information on specific positions or how to apply.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mazen M. Basrawi
>>>>
>>>> Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General
>>>>
>>>> Civil Rights Division
>>>>
>>>> United States Dept. of Justice
>>>>
>>>> Tel: 202-305-1876
>>>>
>>>> e-mail: mazen.basrawi at usdoj.gov
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date:
>>> 01/16/10 07:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date: 
> 01/16/10 07:35:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com 



From MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com  Sat Jan 16 23:23:58 2010
From: MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com (Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:23:58 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] pettition
Message-ID: <02e501ca9702$fb2d9e00$0301a8c0@youra9279112e3>

Please read and sign
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2796/help-with-rewriting-united-statess-america-rehabilitation-act-197/ 

From k7uij at panix.com  Sun Jan 17 00:25:48 2010
From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:25:48 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] pettition
References: <02e501ca9702$fb2d9e00$0301a8c0@youra9279112e3>
Message-ID: <403DA88C917D4B5DA2D9DBF98D5EEF60@owner1e06aeb63>

If it looks like spam, walks like spam and talks like spam ...

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser" 
<MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 3:23 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] pettition


> Please read and sign
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2796/help-with-rewriting-united-statess-america-rehabilitation-act-197/
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com 



From rumpole at roadrunner.com  Sun Jan 17 02:46:45 2010
From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 21:46:45 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
References: <003f01ca9639$7f652dc0$7e2f8940$@com><60B647BC29BB48D1B2FDAEABE15EB90C@none8a46117901><A1ADC66A316B413F8D864B1595BF9C9A@owner1e06aeb63><8059890EAA784612A9FE9E95959E54B1@none8a46117901>
	<346441506EBF4DF3A93466518CC26814@owner1e06aeb63>
Message-ID: <742A87BCCEFC462E9CF180DE830DDF6A@none8a46117901>

Glad to see I'm not the only one who goofs up an email address from time to 
time.
Thanks Mike


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree


> AS you will see, I goofed. His address is Bennet.Prows at hhs.gov.
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ross Doerr" <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>
>
>> Mike, perhaps Ben has changed his email addr3ess, the DHS postmaster
>> returned my message stating that there is no such user.
>> I checked the email address and I did it right, so either they only acept
>> emails during regular business hours, or Ben has a different email now?
>> I'll post a question to him on the NFB site if you think that would be
>> best.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>>
>>
>>> Ben Prows Bennett.Prows at dhs.gov works for DHS.
>>>
>>> Mike Freeman, President
>>> NFB of Washington
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Ross Doerr" <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>>>
>>>
>>>> If anyone on this list forks for DHS, could they please contact me off
>>>> list? I have a question about their web site.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Mazen" <jazenmazen at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:21 PM
>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wanted to let you know that the Civil Rights division at the US
>>>>> Department
>>>>> of Justice has been allocated over 100 new positions over half of 
>>>>> which
>>>>> are
>>>>> for attorneys. over the coming weeks the Division will be advertizing
>>>>> for
>>>>> experienced attorney positions and support staff positions in all the
>>>>> Sections of the Division. To learn more about the Civil Rights 
>>>>> Division
>>>>> please visit http://justice.gov/crt/ or contact me for informational
>>>>> purposes only. Please check the Division's website, usajobs.gov or
>>>>> usdoj.gov
>>>>> for information on specific positions or how to apply.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mazen M. Basrawi
>>>>>
>>>>> Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General
>>>>>
>>>>> Civil Rights Division
>>>>>
>>>>> United States Dept. of Justice
>>>>>
>>>>> Tel: 202-305-1876
>>>>>
>>>>> e-mail: mazen.basrawi at usdoj.gov
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date:
>>>> 01/16/10 07:35:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 - Release Date:
>> 01/16/10 07:35:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.146/2627 - Release Date: 01/16/10 
19:35:00



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 17 03:20:40 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 19:20:40 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] petition
In-Reply-To: <012001ca96fc$cddb8080$0301a8c0@youra9279112e3>
References: <012001ca96fc$cddb8080$0301a8c0@youra9279112e3>
Message-ID: <DF377AF14B614577A447B4E60EA42630@spike>

What is the official NFB position on this petition? Has this issue been 
brought to the attention of NFB leadership?
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser" 
<MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 2:39 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] petition


> please read and sign this petition
> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2796/help-with-rewriting-united-statess-america-rehabilitation-act-197/
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 17 03:26:17 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 19:26:17 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] pettition
In-Reply-To: <403DA88C917D4B5DA2D9DBF98D5EEF60@owner1e06aeb63>
References: <02e501ca9702$fb2d9e00$0301a8c0@youra9279112e3>
	<403DA88C917D4B5DA2D9DBF98D5EEF60@owner1e06aeb63>
Message-ID: <D5563CBAB75C4DF1A54D186D5AB900F5@spike>

The sad part is that the originator did not take our constructive criticism 
to heart as this was the same item that we discussed a few days ago. 
Unfortunately, its not real relevant to issues and focus of this list.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] pettition


> If it looks like spam, walks like spam and talks like spam ...
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser" 
> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 3:23 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] pettition
>
>
>> Please read and sign
>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2796/help-with-rewriting-united-statess-america-rehabilitation-act-197/
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From dfrye at nfb.org  Sun Jan 17 04:38:41 2010
From: dfrye at nfb.org (Dan Frye)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 23:38:41 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] New to the List
Message-ID: <E1NWMsf-0002ku-9n@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Shaun:

I attended the University of Washington, School of law, in 
Seattle, Washington, from 1990 to 1993, and I had an excellent 
experience there.  Though my experience with law school is now 
some dated, I would be happy to share with you any perspective 
that I gathered during this time.  Please feel free to call or 
write at the contact details listed below in my signature block.

With Kind Regards,

Daniel B.  Frye
Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208
Mobile: (410) 241-7006
Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote.

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net
>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 10:23:32 -0500
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] New to the List

>Shaun,
>You are so wise doing this.  I lost my sight in my last year of 
law school,
>so missed some advanced preparation that might have softened that 
blow.  My
>word of caution is be careful about private schools.  Pepperdine 
was not a
>pleasant experience- putting it mildly.  State schools are not 
perfect, but
>are generally better prepared for students with disabilities so 
that
>includes blind ones.  I'm still figuring out answers to several 
of the
>questions you pose.  I'm willing to offer what I can, or just 
listen.  Call
>or message me with contact information if you wish

>Cathryn (703-553-0477)

>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of ShaunR
>Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:05 AM
>To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [blindlaw] New to the List

>Hello,

>I'm new to Blind Law, and I'm wondering if some of you might take 
a
>few moments to answer a handful of questions.

>First of all, I am interested in joining the National Association 
of
>Blind Lawyers, but when I do a Google search, I am directed to 
this
>list.  Does joining this list constitute membership? Is there an
>official enrollment apart from this list? Events? Newsletters?

>Second, I am in the process of applying to law schools.  I live 
in
>Utah, and I'm applying at the UofU.  I'll also be applying at the
>University of Washington, University of Minnesota, and Gonzaga
>University.  I have RP, and have been legally blind for some time 
now.
>Can anyone share what their law school experience was like as a
>visually-impaired student? How about your experiences searching 
for
>work after school? Are there areas of the law that are "easier" 
to
>find employment in as a vision impaired attorney? If so, what are
>they?

>I am just starting down this road, and I would love to hear 
stories
>from fellow blind people about all aspects of the field of law.

>Thanks!
>Shaun Reimers

>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
>blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn
isfinally%4
>0verizon.net
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.140/2621 - Release 
Date: 01/15/10
>12:47:00


>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4
0nfb.org


From aznor99 at aol.com  Sun Jan 17 05:35:28 2010
From: aznor99 at aol.com (aznor99 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 00:35:28 EST
Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring spree
Message-ID: <11f55.d5aaba9.3883fba0@aol.com>

Ross,
 
I work for DHS and tried emailing you off-list, but your provider won't  
deliver my message.  Feel free to email me at _aznor99 at aol.com_ 
(mailto:aznor99 at aol.com) .  If you mean DHS in the  Homeland Security sense, Ben does not 
work there.  He works for Health and  Human Services (HHS).
 
Regards,
Ronza
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 1/16/2010 10:15:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
rumpole at roadrunner.com writes:

Glad to  see I'm not the only one who goofs up an email address from time 
to  
time.
Thanks Mike


----- Original Message ----- 
From:  "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 6:04  PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring  spree


> AS you will see, I goofed. His address is  Bennet.Prows at hhs.gov.
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original  Message ----- 
> From: "Ross Doerr"  <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:08  PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division hiring  spree
>
>
>> Mike, perhaps Ben has changed his email  addr3ess, the DHS postmaster
>> returned my message stating that  there is no such user.
>> I checked the email address and I did it  right, so either they only 
acept
>> emails during regular business  hours, or Ben has a different email now?
>> I'll post a question to  him on the NFB site if you think that would be
>>  best.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----  
>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>> To:  "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent:  Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil  Rights Division hiring spree
>>
>>
>>> Ben Prows  Bennett.Prows at dhs.gov works for DHS.
>>>
>>> Mike  Freeman, President
>>> NFB of  Washington
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----  
>>> From: "Ross Doerr"  <rumpole at roadrunner.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing  List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 16,  2010 9:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Civil Rights Division  hiring spree
>>>
>>>
>>>> If anyone on  this list forks for DHS, could they please contact me off
>>>>  list? I have a question about their web  site.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----  Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Mazen"  <jazenmazen at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law  Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday,  January 15, 2010 6:21 PM
>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Civil Rights  Division hiring  spree
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dear  All,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  I wanted to let you know that the Civil Rights division at the  US
>>>>> Department
>>>>> of Justice has  been allocated over 100 new positions over half of 
>>>>>  which
>>>>> are
>>>>> for attorneys. over  the coming weeks the Division will be advertizing
>>>>>  for
>>>>> experienced attorney positions and support staff  positions in all the
>>>>> Sections of the Division. To  learn more about the Civil Rights 
>>>>>  Division
>>>>> please visit http://justice.gov/crt/ or  contact me for informational
>>>>> purposes only. Please  check the Division's website, usajobs.gov or
>>>>>  usdoj.gov
>>>>> for information on specific positions or how  to  apply.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Sincerely,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Mazen M. Basrawi
>>>>>
>>>>> Counsel to  the Assistant Attorney General
>>>>>
>>>>>  Civil Rights Division
>>>>>
>>>>> United  States Dept. of Justice
>>>>>
>>>>> Tel:  202-305-1876
>>>>>
>>>>> e-mail:  mazen.basrawi at usdoj.gov
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>  blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>  blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>  
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG -  www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database:  270.14.145/2626 - Release Date:
>>>> 01/16/10  07:35:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw  mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>  
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw  mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>  
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com
>>
>>
>>  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>  No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG -  www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.145/2626 -  Release Date:
>> 01/16/10  07:35:00
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing  list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>  blindlaw:
>>  
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing  list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>  blindlaw:
>  
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



No  virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -  www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.146/2627 - Release  Date: 
01/16/10  
19:35:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw  mailing  list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com


From dravant at ameritech.net  Tue Jan 19 15:36:16 2010
From: dravant at ameritech.net (denise avant)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:36:16 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] rejoining again
Message-ID: <022c01ca991d$23d344b0$6b79ce10$@net>

Hello everyone,

I've been away from this list for quite sometime now as I've been very busy
with a hearing that lasted for 5 days, not all in succession and I recently
had an opportunity to argue before the Illinois Supreme Court.

I've heard there have been some interesting discussions, and I look forward
to being on the list again.

 


From pattichang at att.net  Wed Jan 20 02:08:30 2010
From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory-Chang)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 20:08:30 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] rejoining again
References: <022c01ca991d$23d344b0$6b79ce10$@net>
Message-ID: <2E24B5F776DB48EB9C33E429BB0AFA41@D3J75Z91>

I just want to say congrats to Denise.  Not many of us have opportunities to 
argue before state supreme courts.  That is so AWESOME!.

P.S.  National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at 
www.twitter.com/nfbi.
We also have a facebook page.  Just search for our full name.

Patti Gregory-Chang
President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois
pattichang at att.net
www.nfbofillinois.org
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "denise avant" <dravant at ameritech.net>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:36 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] rejoining again


> Hello everyone,
>
> I've been away from this list for quite sometime now as I've been very 
> busy
> with a hearing that lasted for 5 days, not all in succession and I 
> recently
> had an opportunity to argue before the Illinois Supreme Court.
>
> I've heard there have been some interesting discussions, and I look 
> forward
> to being on the list again.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net 



From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Wed Jan 20 15:53:29 2010
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 08:53:29 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] rejoining again
References: <022c01ca991d$23d344b0$6b79ce10$@net>
	<2E24B5F776DB48EB9C33E429BB0AFA41@D3J75Z91>
Message-ID: <B99FBF200178456B93F404091AA194DB@labarre>

Diddo.  Congrats Denise!
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged 
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, 
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in 
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, 
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments 
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" <pattichang at att.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] rejoining again


>I just want to say congrats to Denise.  Not many of us have opportunities 
>to argue before state supreme courts.  That is so AWESOME!.
>
> P.S.  National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at 
> www.twitter.com/nfbi.
> We also have a facebook page.  Just search for our full name.
>
> Patti Gregory-Chang
> President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois
> pattichang at att.net
> www.nfbofillinois.org
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "denise avant" <dravant at ameritech.net>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:36 AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] rejoining again
>
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I've been away from this list for quite sometime now as I've been very 
>> busy
>> with a hearing that lasted for 5 days, not all in succession and I 
>> recently
>> had an opportunity to argue before the Illinois Supreme Court.
>>
>> I've heard there have been some interesting discussions, and I look 
>> forward
>> to being on the list again.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com
> 




From harderlucas at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 20 19:07:48 2010
From: harderlucas at yahoo.com (Lucas Harder)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 11:07:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [blindlaw] Question on testing at law school
In-Reply-To: <B99FBF200178456B93F404091AA194DB@labarre>
Message-ID: <210592.33247.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>





Hi All,

My name is Lucas Harder and I will be a first year law
student in August. The school that I will be attending has not had a totally blind
student for several decades and so they raised several issues that I would like
to ask if anyone has any suggestions. The main area is in test taking. We aren’t
sure what test taking programs work with JAWS. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions
or information that can be given.

Thank you,

Lucas Harder




      

From attorney at alcidonislaw.com  Wed Jan 20 21:49:09 2010
From: attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:49:09 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Question on testing at law school
In-Reply-To: <210592.33247.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <210592.33247.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DC186451B3C040DBAED7F44835BD7FC1@RodelynPC>

Lucas:

When I was in Law School, we did not use a test taking program. I took all 
my exams in Microsoft word, and I had all exams provided to me 
electronically. I believe it is still status quo -- none of them work well 
with JAWS.

I know of several friends who had the same arrangement with their respective 
Law Schools.

Rod Alcidonis
Attorney and Counselor at Law
Philadelphia, PA
Licensed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey
Phone: (215) 821-6047
Cell: (718) 704-4651
Attorney at alcidonislaw.com

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Lucas Harder" <harderlucas at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 2:07 PM
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [blindlaw] Question on testing at law school

>
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> My name is Lucas Harder and I will be a first year law
> student in August. The school that I will be attending has not had a 
> totally blind
> student for several decades and so they raised several issues that I would 
> like
> to ask if anyone has any suggestions. The main area is in test taking. We 
> aren’t
> sure what test taking programs work with JAWS. I would greatly appreciate 
> any suggestions
> or information that can be given.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Lucas Harder
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com
> 


From joramsey at cox.net  Wed Jan 20 23:04:46 2010
From: joramsey at cox.net (John Ramsey)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 18:04:46 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Question on testing at law school
In-Reply-To: <210592.33247.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <423AC5385A6A4860BCBF3BCA9FCC9158@noneeb869fea9a>

Hello Lucas and congratulations. I have heard that the later versions of
exam soft will work with JAWS but cannot independently verify this. Feel
free to email me off list on any law school issue.
Take care,
John

John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.

Gainesville, FL 32609

(352) 505-6642

 

This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or
legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or
entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in
error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed
materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be
aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this
communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or
civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet,
John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure.  If you are
uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to
communicate with John Ramsey.  Please contact us immediately at (352)
505-6642 if you decide not to use email.  You must also be aware that email
messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our
control.  Thank you.  

 

 



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Lucas Harder
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 2:08 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] Question on testing at law school






Hi All,

My name is Lucas Harder and I will be a first year law
student in August. The school that I will be attending has not had a totally
blind student for several decades and so they raised several issues that I
would like to ask if anyone has any suggestions. The main area is in test
taking. We aren't sure what test taking programs work with JAWS. I would
greatly appreciate any suggestions or information that can be given.

Thank you,

Lucas Harder




      
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net



From attorney at alcidonislaw.com  Thu Jan 21 00:18:40 2010
From: attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:18:40 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Question on testing at law school Dave administrator
	can you contact me off-list please
In-Reply-To: <423AC5385A6A4860BCBF3BCA9FCC9158@noneeb869fea9a>
References: <423AC5385A6A4860BCBF3BCA9FCC9158@noneeb869fea9a>
Message-ID: <C23F202D5AB0437B88DBD7B902A8FA05@RodelynPC>

Dave list administrator

Can you contact me off-list please?

Thanks.

Rod Alcidonis
Attorney and Counselor at Law
Philadelphia, PA
Licensed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey
Phone: (215) 821-6047
Cell: (718) 704-4651
Attorney at alcidonislaw.com

--------------------------------------------------
From: "John Ramsey" <joramsey at cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 6:04 PM
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question on testing at law school

> Hello Lucas and congratulations. I have heard that the later versions of
> exam soft will work with JAWS but cannot independently verify this. Feel
> free to email me off list on any law school issue.
> Take care,
> John
>
> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.
>
> Gainesville, FL 32609
>
> (352) 505-6642
>
>
>
> This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or
> legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or
> entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication 
> in
> error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed
> materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be
> aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this
> communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or
> civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet,
> John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure.  If you are
> uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to
> communicate with John Ramsey.  Please contact us immediately at (352)
> 505-6642 if you decide not to use email.  You must also be aware that 
> email
> messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our
> control.  Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Lucas Harder
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 2:08 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] Question on testing at law school
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> My name is Lucas Harder and I will be a first year law
> student in August. The school that I will be attending has not had a 
> totally
> blind student for several decades and so they raised several issues that I
> would like to ask if anyone has any suggestions. The main area is in test
> taking. We aren't sure what test taking programs work with JAWS. I would
> greatly appreciate any suggestions or information that can be given.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Lucas Harder
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com 



From b75205 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 19:32:50 2010
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:32:50 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour
In-Reply-To: <08727A47C5054CC3A37C7ED72E3EB079@spike>
References: <EA109BD3F6A5461BB78D099AAF197BDC@spike>
	<fe5b78281001141421i767ba4efm89fb9170c047153f@mail.gmail.com>
	<08727A47C5054CC3A37C7ED72E3EB079@spike>
Message-ID: <fe5b78281001211132ua83f1dbh917b882c0f7acb08@mail.gmail.com>

Well, I testified, and I demanded that Obama sign an executive order
ordering the US census to count the blind, the visually impaired and the
disabled.  One of the speakers from Reach was saying that he was going to
send a message to Obama on the disability issue and so I stood up and said
that the CDC is currently tracking 18 million Americans over the age of 40
who have the 6 major eye diseases that cause blindness, and 17 million more
have cataracts whcih is twice the population of african americans who voted
in the 2008 election.  This was filmed for CSpan but I do not know when it
will be on.  But it was a good meeting.

I explained what I could do with my process for accessibility and the
progress on that issue too.

James Pepper

From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Thu Jan 21 22:48:21 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:48:21 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78281001211132ua83f1dbh917b882c0f7acb08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EA109BD3F6A5461BB78D099AAF197BDC@spike>
	<fe5b78281001141421i767ba4efm89fb9170c047153f@mail.gmail.com>
	<08727A47C5054CC3A37C7ED72E3EB079@spike>
	<fe5b78281001211132ua83f1dbh917b882c0f7acb08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1C995A13C7254D53AA313EE70414BA79@StevePC>

Just tell Obama that if he doesn't sign all of the blind will vote for the 
next Republican presidential candidate in 2012!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour


> Well, I testified, and I demanded that Obama sign an executive order
> ordering the US census to count the blind, the visually impaired and the
> disabled.  One of the speakers from Reach was saying that he was going to
> send a message to Obama on the disability issue and so I stood up and said
> that the CDC is currently tracking 18 million Americans over the age of 40
> who have the 6 major eye diseases that cause blindness, and 17 million 
> more
> have cataracts whcih is twice the population of african americans who 
> voted
> in the 2008 election.  This was filmed for CSpan but I do not know when it
> will be on.  But it was a good meeting.
>
> I explained what I could do with my process for accessibility and the
> progress on that issue too.
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2636 - Release Date: 01/21/10 
07:34:00



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jan 22 07:55:00 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:55:00 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour
In-Reply-To: <1C995A13C7254D53AA313EE70414BA79@StevePC>
References: <EA109BD3F6A5461BB78D099AAF197BDC@spike><fe5b78281001141421i767ba4efm89fb9170c047153f@mail.gmail.com><08727A47C5054CC3A37C7ED72E3EB079@spike><fe5b78281001211132ua83f1dbh917b882c0f7acb08@mail.gmail.com>
	<1C995A13C7254D53AA313EE70414BA79@StevePC>
Message-ID: <45917D47A4764790B618CA1697105993@spike>

That would set us back in to the Dark Ages.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour


> Just tell Obama that if he doesn't sign all of the blind will vote for the 
> next Republican presidential candidate in 2012!!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour
>
>
>> Well, I testified, and I demanded that Obama sign an executive order
>> ordering the US census to count the blind, the visually impaired and the
>> disabled.  One of the speakers from Reach was saying that he was going to
>> send a message to Obama on the disability issue and so I stood up and 
>> said
>> that the CDC is currently tracking 18 million Americans over the age of 
>> 40
>> who have the 6 major eye diseases that cause blindness, and 17 million 
>> more
>> have cataracts whcih is twice the population of african americans who 
>> voted
>> in the 2008 election.  This was filmed for CSpan but I do not know when 
>> it
>> will be on.  But it was a good meeting.
>>
>> I explained what I could do with my process for accessibility and the
>> progress on that issue too.
>>
>> James Pepper
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2636 - Release Date: 01/21/10 
> 07:34:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Fri Jan 22 15:13:42 2010
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 08:13:42 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Employment Opportunity: Reasonable Accommodation
	Coordinator Position
Message-ID: <C8C3FEBB68CF4203A0BDF5D185615B3E@labarre>

An employment opportunity has crossed my inbox and I am passing it on.  Feel free to do likewise.  Cheers for a great weekend ahead!
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Bryson, Stacey L. (CMS/OEOCR) 
To: slabarre at labarrelaw.com 
Cc: Bryson, Stacey L. (CMS/OEOCR) 
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 7:16 PM
Subject: Employment Opportunity: Reasonable Accommodation Coordinator Position


My organization is looking to use the Schedule A hiring authority to fill a vacancy position. This position is located in the Office of Equal Opportunity and Civil Rights (OEOCR), Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS).  The position is for a member of the Disability Employment and Reasonable Accommodation Program (DERAP) team.  

We are  looking for someone with a legal background interested in assisting in progressing the Agency's Disability Employment and Reasonable Accommodations Program. The hired candidate would assist in providing guidance to CMS management, employees, applicants, human resources officials and advocacy groups on issues impacting individuals with disabilities.  We need someone with the ability to analyze information pertaining to the processing of reasonable accommodation request, and the ability to conduct legal research and apply case law to reasonable accommodation and disability related issues.

Interested applicants should email a resume to the address below. 

 

Stacey L. Bryson

Team Lead / Disability Employment Program Manager 
Office of Equal Opportunity and Civil Rights 
Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services 
Department of Health & Human Services 
7500 Security Blvd., Mail Stop: N2-22-16

Baltimore, MD. 21244 
Tel:  410-786-7201
Fax: 410-786-9549 

Email: sbryson at cms.hhs.gov 

"OEOCR the model of quality EEO and Civil Rights Services"

 

From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com  Fri Jan 22 21:19:33 2010
From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 13:19:33 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour
In-Reply-To: <45917D47A4764790B618CA1697105993@spike>
References: <EA109BD3F6A5461BB78D099AAF197BDC@spike><fe5b78281001141421i767ba4efm89fb9170c047153f@mail.gmail.com><08727A47C5054CC3A37C7ED72E3EB079@spike><fe5b78281001211132ua83f1dbh917b882c0f7acb08@mail.gmail.com><1C995A13C7254D53AA313EE70414BA79@StevePC>
	<45917D47A4764790B618CA1697105993@spike>
Message-ID: <2A3F4F84AD164DA48745F6CAE73BF0C5@RThomas>

Oh really? Bush 41 signed the ADA, after his opponent in the 1988 election
couldn't decide whether he was for ADA or against it.



Respectfully,

 

Russell J. Thomas, Jr.

THOMAS & ASSOCIATES

www.californiaemployersattorneys.com

 

Orange County Office                      

4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101

Newport Beach, California 92660                             

T: (949) 752-0101                             

F: (949) 257-4756

M: (949) 466-7238

 

Beverly Hills Office

9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450

Beverly Hills, California 90210 

T: (310) 461-3561

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:55 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour

That would set us back in to the Dark Ages.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour


> Just tell Obama that if he doesn't sign all of the blind will vote for the

> next Republican presidential candidate in 2012!!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Labor listening tour
>
>
>> Well, I testified, and I demanded that Obama sign an executive order
>> ordering the US census to count the blind, the visually impaired and the
>> disabled.  One of the speakers from Reach was saying that he was going to
>> send a message to Obama on the disability issue and so I stood up and 
>> said
>> that the CDC is currently tracking 18 million Americans over the age of 
>> 40
>> who have the 6 major eye diseases that cause blindness, and 17 million 
>> more
>> have cataracts whcih is twice the population of african americans who 
>> voted
>> in the 2008 election.  This was filmed for CSpan but I do not know when 
>> it
>> will be on.  But it was a good meeting.
>>
>> I explained what I could do with my process for accessibility and the
>> progress on that issue too.
>>
>> James Pepper
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
sightbb.com
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2636 - Release Date: 01/21/10 
> 07:34:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
al.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi
rm.com





From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 21:53:56 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:53:56 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
Message-ID: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>

Since the NFB, is a corperation, would it be effectedin any by the United States supreme court opinion releaced yesterday? I've attached a copy of the opinion. RJ 
-------------- next part --------------
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From editor.nftb at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 02:13:30 2010
From: editor.nftb at gmail.com (Will May)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 21:13:30 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
In-Reply-To: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <bd5993381001221813p29388e07k64960bed4a12aa5a@mail.gmail.com>

Doesn't differentiate between for profit and not for profit
corporation, so NFB etc would be included.

On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 4:53 PM, RJ Sandefur
<joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> Since the NFB, is a corperation, would it be effectedin any by the United States supreme court opinion releaced yesterday? I've attached a copy of the opinion. RJ
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmail.com
>
>


From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 02:48:31 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 21:48:31 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] supremecourt opinion
Message-ID: <F9426B82A15C4EDC823B9EA78C4E5AD9@hometwxakonvzn>

Could this opinion have an effect on the NFB, and org tone of stuff? RJ
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From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 12:11:13 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 07:11:13 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
References: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>
	<bd5993381001221813p29388e07k64960bed4a12aa5a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5E8856D40BF7483D8FEB4F7D83184428@hometwxakonvzn>

Do you think this opinion will have a positive or negitive effect on the 
NFB? The way I understand it, the opinion says, any corperation, may 
actively compain for a partictuar person. So the NFB could say, "John smith 
votted againist the ADA." Basically, what did the court do? I feel as 
citizens these opinions arn't being explained to us, so we are not really 
informed as to what's going on. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Will May" <editor.nftb at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion


> Doesn't differentiate between for profit and not for profit
> corporation, so NFB etc would be included.
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 4:53 PM, RJ Sandefur
> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Since the NFB, is a corperation, would it be effectedin any by the United 
>> States supreme court opinion releaced yesterday? I've attached a copy of 
>> the opinion. RJ
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 12:46:29 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 06:46:29 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
In-Reply-To: <5E8856D40BF7483D8FEB4F7D83184428@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>	<bd5993381001221813p29388e07k64960bed4a12aa5a@mail.gmail.com>
	<5E8856D40BF7483D8FEB4F7D83184428@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <004e01ca9c2a$1667c7a0$433756e0$@com>

I think this may be good for corporations but not good for the average
person.  If we thought lobbying was bad before, this is going to be much
worse.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:11 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion

Do you think this opinion will have a positive or negitive effect on the 
NFB? The way I understand it, the opinion says, any corperation, may 
actively compain for a partictuar person. So the NFB could say, "John smith 
votted againist the ADA." Basically, what did the court do? I feel as 
citizens these opinions arn't being explained to us, so we are not really 
informed as to what's going on. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Will May" <editor.nftb at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion


> Doesn't differentiate between for profit and not for profit
> corporation, so NFB etc would be included.
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 4:53 PM, RJ Sandefur
> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Since the NFB, is a corperation, would it be effectedin any by the United

>> States supreme court opinion releaced yesterday? I've attached a copy of 
>> the opinion. RJ
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmai
l.com
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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>
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r%40gmail.com 


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From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Mon Jan 25 22:39:13 2010
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:39:13 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: ABA Presidential Diversity Series | Smart Soloing:
	Strategies for Diverse Lawyers
Message-ID: <17981A9703AB4D3590F1EE088DC318A9@labarre>

ABA-CLEThis may have appeal to some especially because it is free.  
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: ABA-CLE Announcement 
To: Scott Charles LaBarre 
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 7:15 AM
Subject: ABA Presidential Diversity Series | Smart Soloing: Strategies for Diverse Lawyers


            Please add aba-cle-announcement at abanet.org to your address book to ensure our e-mails reach your inbox.  
           
              
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                        Smart Soloing: Success Strategies for Diverse Lawyers 
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                        Friday, February 5, 2010 
                       

                       
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                        Today over 60% of lawyers in the United States work in solo or small firm practice settings of 1-5 attorneys. In the current employment environment, even more lawyers are turning to solo/small firm practice. This live video webcast program is designed to help the recent solo/small firm lawyer build the skills and gain the confidence needed to operate a successful law practice, and candidly addresses some of the barriers and opportunities, faced by diverse lawyers. 

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From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jan 29 03:10:49 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 19:10:49 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
In-Reply-To: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <D98884EEF1554EAC93704B0BA14A5E81@spike>

    I just received an alert addressing the impact of this opinion on 
nonprofit corporations. It states that the restrictions of 501C(3)S is still 
in tact as the conditions of the IRS code which addresses involvement in 
political activities by 501C(3) entities remains unchanged. If anyone wants 
the detailed alert I can send it off list.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno, ca 93721
559-266-9237

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:53 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion


Since the NFB, is a corperation, would it be effectedin any by the United 
States supreme court opinion releaced yesterday? I've attached a copy of the 
opinion. RJ


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
> 



From kc2992a at student.american.edu  Fri Jan 29 03:12:46 2010
From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 22:12:46 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
In-Reply-To: <D98884EEF1554EAC93704B0BA14A5E81@spike>
References: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>
	<D98884EEF1554EAC93704B0BA14A5E81@spike>
Message-ID: <2fdbeb321001281912n4de09bebo36edd545156b7c1@mail.gmail.com>

Could you forward that alert please? I am interested.

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:10 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>   I just received an alert addressing the impact of this opinion on
> nonprofit corporations. It states that the restrictions of 501C(3)S is still
> in tact as the conditions of the IRS code which addresses involvement in
> political activities by 501C(3) entities remains unchanged. If anyone wants
> the detailed alert I can send it off list.
> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
> 1237 P Street
> Fresno, ca 93721
> 559-266-9237
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" <
> joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:53 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
>
>
> Since the NFB, is a corperation, would it be effectedin any by the United
> States supreme court opinion releaced yesterday? I've attached a copy of the
> opinion. RJ
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu
>



-- 
Kathryn CARROLL
American University
631 521 3018

From johnrsheehan at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 29 11:06:41 2010
From: johnrsheehan at yahoo.com (John Sheehan)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 03:06:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
In-Reply-To: <2fdbeb321001281912n4de09bebo36edd545156b7c1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>
	<D98884EEF1554EAC93704B0BA14A5E81@spike>
	<2fdbeb321001281912n4de09bebo36edd545156b7c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <35102.38320.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Thank you - that would be very useful.
 
Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ
Chairman
Xavier Society for the Blind
154 E. 23rd St
NYC 10010
212 473-7800, ext 119
Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you. 
 
Residence:
53 E 83rd St
New York, NY 10028

Room Phone: 212 606-3420
Cell: 646 853-1820
Blog: www.frjohnsj.blogspot.com





________________________________

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:10 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>   I just received an alert addressing the impact of this opinion on
> nonprofit corporations. It states that the restrictions of 501C(3)S is still
> in tact as the conditions of the IRS code which addresses involvement in
> political activities by 501C(3) entities remains unchanged. If anyone wants
> the detailed alert I can send it off list.
> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
> 1237 P Street
> Fresno, ca 93721
> 559-266-9237
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" <
> joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:53 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
>
>
> Since the NFB, is a corperation, would it be effectedin any by the United
> States supreme court opinion releaced yesterday? I've attached a copy of the
> opinion. RJ
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu
>



-- 
Kathryn CARROLL
American University
631 521 3018
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/johnrsheehan%40yahoo.com



      

From mhanson at winternet.com  Fri Jan 29 12:00:21 2010
From: mhanson at winternet.com (Michael O. Hanson)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:00:21 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
References: <3352DD8ADD0F488A981C9E6F2DD869BE@hometwxakonvzn>
	<D98884EEF1554EAC93704B0BA14A5E81@spike>
Message-ID: <17FD374AF66A456F80B5A0BC7AFA3085@HP67201715610>

Please forward me that alert if you don't mind.

Thank You,


Mike Hanson

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion


>    I just received an alert addressing the impact of this opinion on 
> nonprofit corporations. It states that the restrictions of 501C(3)S is 
> still in tact as the conditions of the IRS code which addresses 
> involvement in political activities by 501C(3) entities remains unchanged. 
> If anyone wants the detailed alert I can send it off list.
> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
> 1237 P Street
> Fresno, ca 93721
> 559-266-9237
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:53 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] supreme court opinion
>
>
> Since the NFB, is a corperation, would it be effectedin any by the United 
> States supreme court opinion releaced yesterday? I've attached a copy of 
> the opinion. RJ
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mhanson%40winternet.com
> 



From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Fri Jan 29 18:25:25 2010
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:25:25 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Additional Department of Justice,
 Civil Rights Division Job Opportunities
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED50450E08F4@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>



________________________________
From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 10:39 AM
To: jobs at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Jobs] FW: Additional Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division Job Opportunities



________________________________
From: Special Programs Vacancies [mailto:CRT.SpecProgVacancies at usdoj.gov]
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 1:16 PM
To: Petrie, Diane E (CRT); Alexandria Bar Association; Alliance of Black Women Attorneys; American Arab Anti-Discrimination Commitee; American Bar Association -- Commission on Mental and Physical Disabilities Law; American Bar Association - Commission on Racial and Ethnic ; American Bar Association - Commission on Women in the Profession; American Bar Association -- Committee on Diversity in the Profession and Native American Bar Association -- DC Chapter; American Bar Association - Government and Public Sector Lawyers Division; American Bar Association - Section of Litigation / American Bar Association - Section of Litigation, Minority Trial Lawyers Committee; American Bar Association - Young Lawyers Section; American Bar Association- Commission on Mental and Physical Disabilities Law; American Civil Liberties Union; American Corporate Counsel Association; American Counsel of the Blind; American Judges Association; American Judges Association; American University - Washington College of Law; American University - Washington College of Law; Anne Arundel Bar Association; Anti-Defamation League; Arab American Bar Association; Asian American Bar Association of Houston; Asian American Bar Association of New York (AABANY); Asian American Bar Association of the Greater Bay Area; Asian American Bar Association of the Greater Chicago Area (AABA); Asian American Lawyers Association of Massachusetts; Asian Bar Association of Washington; Asian Pacific American Bar Association of Colorado; Asian Pacific American Bar Association of Los Angeles County; Asian Pacific American Bar Association of Pennsylvania; Asian Pacific American Bar Association of the Greater Washington, District of Columbia Area; Asian Pacific American Lawyers Association of New Jersey; Asian Pacific American Legal Center of Southern California; Asian Pacific American Legal Resource Center; Asian Pacific Bar Association of the Silicon Valley; Assistant United States Attorneys Association ; Association of American Law Schools - Indian Nations & Indigenous People; Association of American Law Schools - Litigation Section; Association of American Law Schools - Minority Section; Association of Black Lawyers of Westchester County, New York; Association of Black Women Attorneys / National Association of Black Women Attorneys ; Association of Black Women Lawyers of New Jersey; Baltimore County Bar Association; Bar Association of Baltimore City; Bar Association of Baltimore City; Bar Association of the District of Columbia; Bar Association of the District of Columbia - Young Lawyers Section/Maryland Hispanic Bar Association ; Barristers' Association of Philadelphia, Inc.; Black Lawyer's Association of Cincinnati; Black Women Lawyers Association of Los Angeles; Black Women Lawyers of Greater Chicago, Inc.; Black Women's Bar Association of Suburban Maryland, Inc.; Blind Veterans Association; Boston University; Brigham Young University Law School; Brown, Bruce (USAFLS); California Association of Black Lawyer ; Catholic University School of Law; Chicago Committee on Minorities in Large Law Firms; Colorado Hispanic Bar Association; Colorado Hispanic Bar Association; Columbia University; Connecticut Asian Pacific American Bar Association; Connecticut Hispanic Bar Association; Constance List, Listserv ; Cook County Bar Association; Cornell University; Council of Shia Professionals; Cuban American Bar Association; D.C. Bar Association; D.W. Perkins Bar Association, Inc.; Dallas Asian-American Bar Association; Dallas Hispanic Bar Association; Department of Justice Association of Black Attorneys; Department of Justice Association of Hispanic Employees for Advancement and Development; Department of Justice Pan Asian; Dominican Bar Association; Fairfax, Virginia Bar Association - Young Lawyers Section; Federal Bar Association; Federal Bar Association - Capitol Hill Chapter; Federal Bar Association - DC Chapter; Federal Bar Association - Federal Career Service Division; Federal Bar Association - Federal Litigation Section; Federal Bar Association - Indian Law Section; Federal Bar Association - Maryland Chapter; Federal Bar Association - Northern Virginia Chapter; Federal Bar Association - Pentagon Chapter; Federal Research Services, Inc.; Filipino American Lawyers of San Diego; Filipino Bar Association of Northern California; Florida A&M University College of Law; Florida Legal Services; Florida State University College of Law; Fordham University; Gate City Bar Association; Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Attorneys of Washington, District of Columbia; George Mason University Law School; George Mason University Law School; George Washington University School of Law; Georgetown University Law Center; Georgia Asian Pacific American Bar Association; Georgia Association of Black Women Attorneys; Greater Washington Area Chapter, Women Lawyers; Greater Washington Area Chapter, Women Lawyers; Harvard University; Hispanic Bar Association; Hispanic Bar Association of Michigan; Hispanic Bar Association of Orange County; Hispanic Bar Association of Pennsylvania; Hispanic Bar Association of the Commonwealth of Virginia, Inc.; Hispanic Bar Association of the District of Columbia; Hispanic Employment Program Managers; Hispanic Lawyers Association of Illinois; Hispanic National Bar Association; Houston Lawyers Association; Howard University Law School; Immigration Project of the Wisconsin Coalition Against Domestic Violence; Indian American Bar Association - Chicago; Indian Law Resource Center - Washington, District of Columbia Office; Inter-American Bar Association; J.L. Turner Legal Assocation; Japanese American Bar Association of Los Angeles; John M. Langston Bar Association of Los Angeles; Korean American Bar Association of Northern California; Korean American Bar Association of Washington State; Korean American Bar Association of Washington State; Korean American Bar of Southern California; Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under the Law; Lawyers for One America ; Lewis and Clark Law School; Local Government Attorneys of Virginia; Loren Miller Bar Association; Los Abogados Hispanic Bar Association of Maricopa County; Loyola Law School, Los Angeles; Maryland State Bar Association; Maryland State Bar Association - Young Lawyers Section; Maryland State's Attorneys' Association; Maryland Trial Lawyers Association; Massachusetts Association of Hispanic Attorneys; Massachusetts Association of Hispanic Attorneys; Massachusetts Black Lawyers Association; Metropolitan Black Bar Association; Mexican American Bar Association; Mikkanen, Arvo (USAOKW); Minnesota American Indian Bar Association; Minnesota Association of Black Lawyers; Minnesota Hispanic Bar Association; Minority Corporate Counsel Association; Montgomery County, Maryland Bar Association ; Monumental City Bar Association ; Muslim Bar Association of Southern California; National American Indian Court Judges Association; National Asian Pacific American Bar Association; National Asian Pacific American Bar Association; National Asian Pacific American Legal Consortium; National Association for Public Interest Law; National Association for Public Interest Law; National Association of Assistant United States Attorneys /Assistant United States Attorneys Association ; Maurer, Patricia; Maurer, Patricia; National Association of Protection and Advocacy Systems; National Association of Protection and Advocacy Systems; National Association of the Deaf Law Center; National Association of Women Lawyers ; National Association of Women Lawyers ; National Bar Association (national African American bar association) ; National Conference of Women's Bar Associations; National Congress of American Indians; National Congress of American Indians; National Hispanic Prosecutors Association; National Immigration Law Center; National Indian Justice Center; National Legal Aid & Defender Association; National Legal Aid & Defender Association; National Lesbian and Gay Law Association; National Lesbian and Gay Law Association; National Organization on Disability; National Policy and Advocacy Council on Homelessness; National South Asian Bar Association; Native American Bar Association; Native American Bar Association; Native American Bar Association of Washington, District of Columbia; Nativeamericanlaw, Listserv (email discussion group for native law and Federal Indian law issues); New York School of Law; North American South Asian Bar Association; North Carolina Central University School of Law; Northwest Indian Bar Association; Northwestern University; Oklahoma Indian Bar Association; Old Dominion Bar Association (African American bar association of Virginia); Orange County Japanese American Lawyers' Association ; Organization of Chinese Americans; Organization of Chinese Americans; Pan Asian Lawyers Association of San Diego; Pan Asian Lawyers Association of San Diego; Paralyzed Veterans of America; Philippine American Bar Association; Philippine American Bar Association; Prince George's County, Maryland Bar Association; Puerto Rican Bar Association of Illinois; Puerto Rican Bar Association, Inc.; Regent University School of Law; Sam Cary Bar Association; San Francisco Law Raza Lawyers Association; Sikh Coalition; South Asian Bar Association of New York; South Asian Bar Association of Northern California; South Asian Bar Association of Southern California; South Asian Bar Association of Washington, D.C.; South Asian Bar Association of Washington, D.C.; Southern California Chinese Lawyers Association; Southwestern Law School; St. Mary's University School of Law; St. Mary's University School of Law; Stanford Law School; Texas Southern University Thurgood Marshall School of Law; The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty; The California Minority Counsel Program; U.S. Attorney's Bulletin; U.S. Department of the Air Force - Judge Advocate General's Department; University of Arizona, James E. Rogers College of Law; University of Baltimore School of Law; University of California-Berkeley; University of California-Davis; University of California-Hastings College of Law; University of California-Los Angeles; University of Chicago-The Law School; University of Connecticut School of Law; University of Connecticut School of Law; University of Dayton School of Law; University of Florida Frederic G. Levin College of Law; University of Idaho College of Law; University of Illinois-Urbana-Campaign; University of Maryland School of Law; University of Miami School of Law; University of Michigan- Ann Arbor; University of Missouri School of Law; University of Missouri School of Law; University of Nevada Las Vegas William S. Boyd School of Law; University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill; University of Pennsylvania; University of Richmond - T.C. Williams School of Law; University of Richmond - T.C. Williams School of Law; University of Southern California; University of Texas at Austin School of Law; University of the District of Columbia-David A. Clarke School of Law; University of Tulsa College of Law; University of Virginia School of Law; University of Wisconsin-Madison; Utah Minority Bar Association; Vietnamese American Association of the Greater Washington, D.C. Area; Villanova University; Virgil Hawkins Florida Chapter National Bar Association; Virginia Bar Association ; Virginia Commonwealth's Attorneys Services Council ; Virginia State Bar Association ; Virginia Trial Lawyers Association; Washington & Lee University Law School; Washington Bar Association ; Washington Council of Lawyers ; West Virginia Bar Association; West Virginia Prosecuting Attorneys Institute ; West Virginia Trial Lawyers Association; West Virginia University College of Law; William and Mary School of Law; Willie Lovett; Wolverine Bar Association; Women's Bar Association of Maryland, Inc.; Women's Bar Association of the District of Columbia; Yale University
Subject: Additional Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division Job Opportunities


Attached are several more job opportunities in the Civil Rights Division, DOJ.  Please distribute as appropriate:

http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85849941

http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85849003

http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85861657



http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85926412&JobTitle=Deputy+Chief&x=132&y=9&brd=3876&vw=b&FedEmp=N&FedPub=Y&jbf574=DJ*&jbf571=10&AVSDM=2010-01-27+12%3a49%3a00


I you are not the right contact for such distributions, please let me know.  Likewise, if you would like to unsubscribe to this contact list, please e-mail us.  Thank you.


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From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Fri Jan 29 18:25:35 2010
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:25:35 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED50450E08F5@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>



________________________________
From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 10:40 AM
To: jobs at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice



________________________________
From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov]
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 12:53 PM
To: nawl at nawl.org; ncai at ncai.org; nedy at wyjlaw.com; newmedia at ja.org; Neysas at dnfsb.gov; Maurer, Patricia; nijc at aol.com; nlove at opd.state.md.us; nmcconnell at jackscamp.com; noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; nwpatton at law.stanford.edu; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu
Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice


To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp

We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you.

Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies

 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE PARDON ATTORNEY EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-13 ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER OPA-ATY-10-001 This position is open until filled, but no later than February 5, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-opa-aty-10-001.htm>
Date posted: 01-26-2010
 *   EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEYS UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE NATIONAL SECURITY DIVISION COUNTERESPIONAGE SECTION Open until filled.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-nsd-counterespionage.htm>
Date posted: 01-26-2010
 *   SUPERVISORY ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS Applications must be received by Monday, February 8, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/usao-ma.htm>
Date posted: 01-25-2010
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, CRIMINAL SECTION DEPUTY CHIEF/GS-14 TO 15 Application Deadline February 11, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/crm-deputy-chief-oarm-2010.htm>
Date posted: 01-22-2010
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, CRIMINAL SECTION TRIAL ATTORNEY/GS-14 TO 15 Application Deadline February 18, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/crm-trial-attorney-oarm-2010.htm>
Date posted: 01-22-2010
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES SECTION TRIAL ATTORNEY, GS-14 to GS-15 ANNOUNCEMENT #10-ATT-002 Application Deadline March 18, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/attorney-education-2010.htm>
Date posted: 01-22-2010
 *   U. S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, EMPLOYMENT LITIGATION SECTION TRIAL ATTORNEY, GS-14 to GS-15 Application Deadline March 2, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/attorney-emp-2010.htm>
Date posted: 01-22-2010
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS CHICAGO, ILLINOIS PATRICK J. FITZGERALD, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: AUSA-NDIL-10 Position is open until filled.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/ausa10.htm>
Date posted: 01-22-2010
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- UTICA, NEW YORK EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY/GS-13 to GS-15 This position will be open until February 9, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/26jan10uticaattorney.htm>
Date posted: 01-22-2010
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE PROGRAM -- ALBANY, NY ASSISTANT U.S. TRUSTEE This position will be open until February 8, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/25jan10albanyaust.htm>
Date posted: 01-22-2010
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- BOISE, IDAHO TRIAL ATTORNEY VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT # 2010-05-BOI Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of February 12, 2010 and will be accepted up to five calendar days after the closing date.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-ust-2010-05-boi.htm>
Date posted: 01-22-2010
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEYUNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE TWO-YEAR TERM APPOINTMENT NORTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 10-NDNY-01 Application materials must be received by January 28, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-usao-ndny-01.htm>
Date posted: 01-22-2010
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 10-AUSASDGA-01 Applications must be received no later than February 1, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-eousa-ausasdga-01.htm>
Date posted: 01-21-2010
 *   UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA SUPERVISORY ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA JANUARY 21, 2010 10-EDCA-09A Applications should be postmarked no later than Friday, February 5, 2010<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-usao-edca-09a.htm>
Date posted: 01-21-2010
 *   UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON SEATTLE, WASHINGTON VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT: 10-WDWA-AUSA-05 (CRIMINAL) JANUARY 20, 2010 - FEBRUARY 3, 2010 Applications will be accepted through February 3, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-wdwa-ausa-05.htm>
Date posted: 01-20-2010
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA Position(s) will be open until filled.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-usao-asstatty-mdfl.htm>
Date posted: 01-20-2010
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA HONORABLE JOYCE WHITE VANCE ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 10-NDAL-08 All applications/resumes should be postmarked February 1, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-ndal-08.htm>
Date posted: 01-15-2010
 *   EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (EAUSA) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON SEATTLE, WASHINGTON VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT: 10-WDWA-AUSA-04 JANUARY 15, 2010 - JANUARY 22, 2010 Applications will be accepted through January 21, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-wdwa-ausa-04.htm>
Date posted: 01-15-2010
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE PROGRAM -- ALEXANDRIA, VA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES TRUSTEE VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT #AX-0017 This position will be open until February 12, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/ax-0017.htm>
Date posted: 01-15-2010
 *   TRIAL ATTORNEY, (GS-13/14/15) CHILD EXPLOITATION AND OBSCENITY SECTION CRIMINAL DIVISION U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WASHINGTON, D.C. ANNOUNCEMENT #: 10-CRM-CEOS-004 This vacancy announcement will close on February 12, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-crm-ceos-004.htm>
Date posted: 01-15-2010
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE PROGRAM -- OKLAHOMA CITY, OK ASSISTANT UNITED STATES TRUSTEE VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT #FY 10-1 This position will be open until February 1, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/fy-10-1.htm>
Date posted: 01-14-2010
 *   VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (CRIMINAL) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA MIAMI, FLORIDA Announcement is open until filled.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-usao-miamifl.htm>
Date posted: 01-14-2010
 *   UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA SUPERVISORY ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FRESNO, CALIFORNIA JANUARY 14, 2010 10-EDCA-08A Applications should be postmarked no later than Friday, January 29, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-edca-08a.htm>
Date posted: 01-14-2010
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA 10-SDAL-02 Positions are open until filled, but resumes must be received by January 28, 2010.<http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-sdal-02.htm>
Date posted: 01-13-2010

The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information.

-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Jobs mailing list
Jobs at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov

From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 00:52:40 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 18:52:40 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
Message-ID: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>

Hello all!

 

I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in finding
employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.

 

Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Will


From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Sat Jan 30 01:56:52 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 20:56:52 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
Message-ID: <C0C7845FD68649459838AFC9565F4CE4@StevePC>

Why, if you are looking for employment?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 7:52 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern


> Hello all!
>
>
>
> I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
> had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in 
> finding
> employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
> including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>
>
>
> Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>
>
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Will
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2655 - Release Date: 01/29/10 
09:08:00



From darlene.olsen at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 02:59:48 2010
From: darlene.olsen at gmail.com (Darlene Olsen)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 18:59:48 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
Message-ID: <E21513943C7542ACBC4904E3301CAA60@DarleneOlsen>

I wonder if you should contact Google Inc.

Eric Schmidt, CEO
Telephone: (650) 623-4000

Address: 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway,
Mountain View, California, 94043
Plus, negoitiate a job as a special paralegal for the company, on 
retainer...
Good Luck
Darlene.Olsen at gmail.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:52 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern


> Hello all!
>
>
>
> I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
> had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in 
> finding
> employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
> including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>
>
>
> Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>
>
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Will
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/darlene.olsen%40gmail.com
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature database 4818 (20100129) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> 


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4819 (20100130) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com





From CDanielsen at nfb.org  Sat Jan 30 06:46:33 2010
From: CDanielsen at nfb.org (Danielsen, Chris)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 00:46:33 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida to receive
 Distinguished Legislative Service Award at Washington Seminar
Message-ID: <auto-000137244507@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Dear Fellow Federationists:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = 
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />



As you know, our Washington Seminar is fast approaching.  On 
Wednesday, February 3, it is extremely important that you attend the 
5:00 p.m. meeting because we will have a special 
guest.  Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida will 
receive a Distinguished Legislative Service Award for her leadership 
in securing funding for the Digital Talking Book program of the 
Library of Congress. Congresswoman Wasserman Schultz is a 
subcommittee chairperson and Chief Deputy Whip in the United States 
House of Representatives. Please make a point to attend this meeting 
and express your sincere appreciation for all that she has done to 
create opportunity for blind Americans.  Congresswoman Wasserman 
Schultz is also a cosponsor of the Blind Persons Return to Work Act 
and the Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act, and we believe that she 
will soon sign on as a cosponsor of the Technology Bill of Rights for 
the Blind.  Please join us in honoring this great supporter and 
friend of America's blind.



If you're not already in Washington on Wednesday but live in the 
District or in Virginia or Maryland, please make an effort to be at 
the Holiday Inn Capitol, 550 C Street SW, to attend this special 
presentation.  If you live in Maryland or can get to the National 
Center for the Blind in Baltimore, there will be transportation on 
Wednesday afternoon to the Holiday Inn Capitol for this important 
gathering.  If you would like to utilize this transportation option, 
please contact Scott White by calling (410) 659-9314, extension 2231, 
or e-mailing <mailto:swhite at nfb.org>swhite at nfb.org.  Please let Scott 
know by the close of business on Monday, February 1, if you plan to 
use this transportation option.  Transportation will leave the 
National Center for the Blind promptly at 2:45 p.m. and return to the 
Center at approximately 8 p.m.  Please be sure to arrive at the 
Center no later than 2:30 p.m. so that the van(s) can depart on 
time.  If you will already be at Washington Seminar, please make a 
point of being in the Columbia Room at 5 p.m.  The gathering will 
last until approximately 6:30 p.m.  I hope to see you in Washington.



Sincerely:



Chris Danielsen


From attorney at alcidonislaw.com  Sat Jan 30 09:34:15 2010
From: attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 04:34:15 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <C0C7845FD68649459838AFC9565F4CE4@StevePC>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
	<C0C7845FD68649459838AFC9565F4CE4@StevePC>
Message-ID: <2B1DC69E5BF240B2BF8CD3BBC0C8C6A9@RodelynPC>

It troubles me about the fact that this list, being so specialized, does not 
have a private archive. Will, I do not know of a way of removing that info 
from the web, unless the administrator can go in and deletes the message all 
together.


Rod Alcidonis, Attorney and Counselor at Law
Alcidonis Law Office, LLC
6907B Rising Sun Ave. 1st floor
Philadelphia, PA 19111
Tel: (215) 821-6047
Fax: (215) 525-0999
Attorney at alcidonislaw.com
Licensed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 8:56 PM
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern

> Why, if you are looking for employment?
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 7:52 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
>
>
>> Hello all!
>>
>>
>>
>> I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
>> had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in 
>> finding
>> employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
>> including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>>
>>
>>
>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Will
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2655 - Release Date: 01/29/10 
> 09:08:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com 



From dandrews at visi.com  Sat Jan 30 10:29:18 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 04:29:18 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
Message-ID: <auto-000137520014@mailfront1.g2host.com>

I can have it removed from the archives, if you give me specifics 
about the message, so we can find it.  However, stuff is cached by 
Google and others, so this doesn't mean it just disappears instantly.

David Andrews, List Owner

At 06:52 PM 1/29/2010, you wrote:
>Hello all!
>
>
>
>I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
>had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in finding
>employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
>including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>
>
>
>Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>
>
>
>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
>Will
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4819 (20100130) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jan 30 10:47:07 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 02:47:07 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
Message-ID: <5A1935AA978748F8AAD79C149CAEA936@spike>

 
latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-us-bar-exam-ruling,0,5871149.story

latimes.com
Judge says officials wrong to prohibit blind UCLA grad's use of computer during state bar exam
By Associated Press

3:36 PM PST, January 29, 2010

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - A federal judge says a blind law school graduate can use a computer during the multiple-choice portion of the California bar exam, a test all must pass to practice law in the state.

U.S. District Court Judge Charles Breyer ruled Friday that University of California, Los Angeles law school graduate Stephanie Enyart's request to use software designed for blind test takers was a reasonable request.

The National Conference of Bar Examiners Inc., which administers that portion of the test for the State Bar of California, had cited security concerns in its opposition of Enyart's request.

The nonprofit argued it made several significant accommodations - such as extra time and allowing a live reader - so that Enyart could take the paper-and-pencil exam.

The exam starts Feb. 23.    







Copyright 2010 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

 
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From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 11:40:05 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:40:05 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
References: <5A1935AA978748F8AAD79C149CAEA936@spike>
Message-ID: <1B694C84998F497E8668504A77354CC6@hometwxakonvzn>

Hey, I am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And where 
can I find it on Line? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
> 



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 11:40:54 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 05:40:54 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <E21513943C7542ACBC4904E3301CAA60@DarleneOlsen>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
	<E21513943C7542ACBC4904E3301CAA60@DarleneOlsen>
Message-ID: <0a4701caa1a1$15ace760$4106b620$@com>

Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Darlene Olsen
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:00 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern

I wonder if you should contact Google Inc.

Eric Schmidt, CEO
Telephone: (650) 623-4000

Address: 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway,
Mountain View, California, 94043
Plus, negoitiate a job as a special paralegal for the company, on 
retainer...
Good Luck
Darlene.Olsen at gmail.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:52 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern


> Hello all!
>
>
>
> I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
> had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in 
> finding
> employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
> including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>
>
>
> Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>
>
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Will
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/darlene.olsen%40gm
ail.com
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature database 4818 (20100129) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> 


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4819 (20100130) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com




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blindlaw at nfbnet.org
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il.com



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 11:43:08 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 05:43:08 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <C0C7845FD68649459838AFC9565F4CE4@StevePC>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
	<C0C7845FD68649459838AFC9565F4CE4@StevePC>
Message-ID: <0a4801caa1a1$653d4040$2fb7c0c0$@com>

Well Steve, when I'm looking for a job I control where I send it to.   Every
Tom Dick and Harry who knows my phone number can google me and find me
whether I want them to or not.  It's just a bit of common sense on my part
where I don't want everybody knowing where I am.  that's all.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 7:57 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern

Why, if you are looking for employment?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 7:52 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern


> Hello all!
>
>
>
> I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
> had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in 
> finding
> employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
> including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>
>
>
> Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>
>
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Will
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
sightbb.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2655 - Release Date: 01/29/10 
09:08:00


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il.com



From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 12:06:17 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 07:06:17 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
References: <5A1935AA978748F8AAD79C149CAEA936@spike>
Message-ID: <D26F6650E2074842B0ACAC6BD1055D49@hometwxakonvzn>

What is this case about? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
> 



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 12:14:53 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:14:53 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <auto-000137520014@mailfront1.g2host.com>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
	<auto-000137520014@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <0a5501caa1a5$d5076d70$7f164850$@com>

Hi David.  It is a copy of my resume.  It has my name, William T. Burley.
I'm not sure what the message said since it's been a very long time since I
put my resume on here.  Can you tell me what other information you may need?

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of David Andrews
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:29 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern

I can have it removed from the archives, if you give me specifics 
about the message, so we can find it.  However, stuff is cached by 
Google and others, so this doesn't mean it just disappears instantly.

David Andrews, List Owner

At 06:52 PM 1/29/2010, you wrote:
>Hello all!
>
>
>
>I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
>had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in
finding
>employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
>including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>
>
>
>Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>
>
>
>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
>Will
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.c
om
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4819 (20100130) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com


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From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 13:10:17 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:10:17 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
References: <5A1935AA978748F8AAD79C149CAEA936@spike>
Message-ID: <22AF0E62570442B1A47B7688EC3BA5BC@hometwxakonvzn>

David, I've tryed opening this attachment that charles has sent, and my 
computer says, that it can't open this file. Is this a PDF or what? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
> 



From AZNOR99 at aol.com  Sat Jan 30 14:21:40 2010
From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 09:21:40 EST
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
Message-ID: <277c.44bead76.38959a74@aol.com>

As I understand it,  a written opinion has not yet been  issued.  The judge 
indicated that the National Conference of Bar Examiners  violated 
Stephanie's rights by refusing to allow her to use the technology of  her choice to 
take the Multiple Choice Section of the Bar Exam.  I was not  present at the 
ruling, I only heard Dr. Maurer discuss it this morning.
 
Congratulations, Stephanie!  This has been a long time coming, and  
hopefully all blind lawyers will now be able to use the accommodations they deem  
necessary in all future Bar Examinations.
 
Ronza
 
 
 
In a message dated 1/30/2010 8:03:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com writes:

Hey, I  am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And where 
can I  find it on Line? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From:  <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47  AM
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


>  _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing  list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>  blindlaw:
>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/o
ptions/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>  


_______________________________________________
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blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
blindlaw:
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From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 15:53:02 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 10:53:02 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
References: <277c.44bead76.38959a74@aol.com>
Message-ID: <DB53344588D34107A0CF8AFDF360FACD@hometwxakonvzn>

Do you think this case will make it to the court of appeals? Even to the US 
supreme court? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <AZNOR99 at aol.com>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> As I understand it,  a written opinion has not yet been  issued.  The 
> judge
> indicated that the National Conference of Bar Examiners  violated
> Stephanie's rights by refusing to allow her to use the technology of  her 
> choice to
> take the Multiple Choice Section of the Bar Exam.  I was not  present at 
> the
> ruling, I only heard Dr. Maurer discuss it this morning.
>
> Congratulations, Stephanie!  This has been a long time coming, and
> hopefully all blind lawyers will now be able to use the accommodations 
> they deem
> necessary in all future Bar Examinations.
>
> Ronza
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/30/2010 8:03:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com writes:
>
> Hey, I  am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And where
> can I  find it on Line? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From:  <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47  AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>
>
>>  _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing  list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>  blindlaw:
>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/o
> ptions/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw  mailing  list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 



From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com  Sat Jan 30 16:07:31 2010
From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:07:31 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
Message-ID: <31F4778486EB434A905570AF65899591@russ>

If you had privacy concerns why did you post your information in a public
place?


-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of WB
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:53 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern

Hello all!

 

I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in finding
employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.

 

Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Will

_______________________________________________
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rm.com





From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 19:24:20 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:24:20 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <31F4778486EB434A905570AF65899591@russ>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
	<31F4778486EB434A905570AF65899591@russ>
Message-ID: <0aca01caa1e1$d38d8060$7aa88120$@com>

Well Russell, that's a simple anser to a simple question.  I put it in the
group because I was under the impression that this was a private archived
group.  There's a difference in sharing it with people who are interested in
helping you find employment and placing my information where it can be found
on Google.  I've placed my resume in other groups where it is privately
archived and I hadn't had that problem.  I didn't think this would be hard
to understand.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr.
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 10:08 AM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern

If you had privacy concerns why did you post your information in a public
place?


-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of WB
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:53 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern

Hello all!

 

I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in finding
employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.

 

Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Will

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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rm.com




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From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Sat Jan 30 19:42:04 2010
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 12:42:04 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
References: <277c.44bead76.38959a74@aol.com>
	<DB53344588D34107A0CF8AFDF360FACD@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <339D26F839FF4A539D3145E0E697C140@labarre>

Friends, I am part of the legal team that secured this victory and was 
present yesterday when Judge Breyer announced his decision.  His written 
order will come out next week and we will certainly pass it on.  I doubt 
very much that the National Conference of Bar Examiners will appeal this but 
one never knows.  If they do, we will know immediately because they will 
need to request extremely expedited review.  They are  under order to 
provide the requested accommodations for the February 2010 bar exam.  This 
is a wonderful victory and I cannot tell  you how good it felt to hear Judge 
Breyer's decision yesterday morning.  We were prepared to make substantial 
arguments in favor of our motion for preliminary injunction but were 
delighted to see that Judge Breyer granted our motion immediately from the 
bench.  Opposing counsel attempted to talk him out of it or in some way get 
him to limit the ruling, but he batted such attempts away.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged 
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, 
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in 
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, 
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments 
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> Do you think this case will make it to the court of appeals? Even to the 
> US supreme court? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <AZNOR99 at aol.com>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>
>
>> As I understand it,  a written opinion has not yet been  issued.  The 
>> judge
>> indicated that the National Conference of Bar Examiners  violated
>> Stephanie's rights by refusing to allow her to use the technology of  her 
>> choice to
>> take the Multiple Choice Section of the Bar Exam.  I was not  present at 
>> the
>> ruling, I only heard Dr. Maurer discuss it this morning.
>>
>> Congratulations, Stephanie!  This has been a long time coming, and
>> hopefully all blind lawyers will now be able to use the accommodations 
>> they deem
>> necessary in all future Bar Examinations.
>>
>> Ronza
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/30/2010 8:03:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Hey, I  am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And 
>> where
>> can I  find it on Line? RJ
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From:  <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47  AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>>
>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing  list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>  blindlaw:
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/o
>> ptions/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw  mailing  list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com
> 




From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Sat Jan 30 20:12:30 2010
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:12:30 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <31F4778486EB434A905570AF65899591@russ>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
	<31F4778486EB434A905570AF65899591@russ>
Message-ID: <3A7F6413395942238A14E32155392B52@StevePC>

Really!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." <rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern


> If you had privacy concerns why did you post your information in a public
> place?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of WB
> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:53 PM
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
> Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
>
> Hello all!
>
>
>
> I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
> had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in 
> finding
> employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
> including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>
>
>
> Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>
>
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Will
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi
> rm.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2657 - Release Date: 01/30/10 
07:35:00



From mruniverse08 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 20:14:01 2010
From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 14:14:01 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <3A7F6413395942238A14E32155392B52@StevePC>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>	<31F4778486EB434A905570AF65899591@russ>
	<3A7F6413395942238A14E32155392B52@StevePC>
Message-ID: <0af401caa1e8$c424ef80$4c6ece80$@com>

Is this that strange mentality rearing it's very ugly head? Hmmm.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:13 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern

Really!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." <rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern


> If you had privacy concerns why did you post your information in a public
> place?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of WB
> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:53 PM
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
> Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
>
> Hello all!
>
>
>
> I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
> had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in 
> finding
> employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
> including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>
>
>
> Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>
>
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Will
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi
> rm.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
sightbb.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2657 - Release Date: 01/30/10 
07:35:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
il.com



From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 20:40:55 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:40:55 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
References: <277c.44bead76.38959a74@aol.com><DB53344588D34107A0CF8AFDF360FACD@hometwxakonvzn>
	<339D26F839FF4A539D3145E0E697C140@labarre>
Message-ID: <48F4164E254D495FA445DED8C91E9D13@hometwxakonvzn>

How come this wasn't on the news? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott C. LaBarre" <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


Friends, I am part of the legal team that secured this victory and was
present yesterday when Judge Breyer announced his decision.  His written
order will come out next week and we will certainly pass it on.  I doubt
very much that the National Conference of Bar Examiners will appeal this but
one never knows.  If they do, we will know immediately because they will
need to request extremely expedited review.  They are  under order to
provide the requested accommodations for the February 2010 bar exam.  This
is a wonderful victory and I cannot tell  you how good it felt to hear Judge
Breyer's decision yesterday morning.  We were prepared to make substantial
arguments in favor of our motion for preliminary injunction but were
delighted to see that Judge Breyer granted our motion immediately from the
bench.  Opposing counsel attempted to talk him out of it or in some way get
him to limit the ruling, but he batted such attempts away.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read,
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> Do you think this case will make it to the court of appeals? Even to the 
> US supreme court? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <AZNOR99 at aol.com>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>
>
>> As I understand it,  a written opinion has not yet been  issued.  The 
>> judge
>> indicated that the National Conference of Bar Examiners  violated
>> Stephanie's rights by refusing to allow her to use the technology of  her 
>> choice to
>> take the Multiple Choice Section of the Bar Exam.  I was not  present at 
>> the
>> ruling, I only heard Dr. Maurer discuss it this morning.
>>
>> Congratulations, Stephanie!  This has been a long time coming, and
>> hopefully all blind lawyers will now be able to use the accommodations 
>> they deem
>> necessary in all future Bar Examinations.
>>
>> Ronza
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/30/2010 8:03:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Hey, I  am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And 
>> where
>> can I  find it on Line? RJ
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From:  <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47  AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>>
>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing  list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>  blindlaw:
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/o
>> ptions/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw  mailing  list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com
>



_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 



From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Jan 30 20:48:28 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:48:28 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
References: <277c.44bead76.38959a74@aol.com><DB53344588D34107A0CF8AFDF360FACD@hometwxakonvzn>
	<339D26F839FF4A539D3145E0E697C140@labarre>
Message-ID: <4BEB6F033765464F944FB44B7609EFCE@hometwxakonvzn>

Does this have nation wide impact? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott C. LaBarre" <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


Friends, I am part of the legal team that secured this victory and was
present yesterday when Judge Breyer announced his decision.  His written
order will come out next week and we will certainly pass it on.  I doubt
very much that the National Conference of Bar Examiners will appeal this but
one never knows.  If they do, we will know immediately because they will
need to request extremely expedited review.  They are  under order to
provide the requested accommodations for the February 2010 bar exam.  This
is a wonderful victory and I cannot tell  you how good it felt to hear Judge
Breyer's decision yesterday morning.  We were prepared to make substantial
arguments in favor of our motion for preliminary injunction but were
delighted to see that Judge Breyer granted our motion immediately from the
bench.  Opposing counsel attempted to talk him out of it or in some way get
him to limit the ruling, but he batted such attempts away.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read,
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> Do you think this case will make it to the court of appeals? Even to the 
> US supreme court? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <AZNOR99 at aol.com>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>
>
>> As I understand it,  a written opinion has not yet been  issued.  The 
>> judge
>> indicated that the National Conference of Bar Examiners  violated
>> Stephanie's rights by refusing to allow her to use the technology of  her 
>> choice to
>> take the Multiple Choice Section of the Bar Exam.  I was not  present at 
>> the
>> ruling, I only heard Dr. Maurer discuss it this morning.
>>
>> Congratulations, Stephanie!  This has been a long time coming, and
>> hopefully all blind lawyers will now be able to use the accommodations 
>> they deem
>> necessary in all future Bar Examinations.
>>
>> Ronza
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/30/2010 8:03:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Hey, I  am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And 
>> where
>> can I  find it on Line? RJ
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From:  <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47  AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>>
>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing  list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>  blindlaw:
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/o
>> ptions/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw  mailing  list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com
>



_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 



From almomani at optonline.net  Sat Jan 30 21:08:25 2010
From: almomani at optonline.net (Mudhaffer Al-Momani)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 16:08:25 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
	<E21513943C7542ACBC4904E3301CAA60@DarleneOlsen>
Message-ID: <FDDE5042D8D14615937BF959F8F7E455@FJP7MG1>

Hi All,
Is there a way for me to get out of the list?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darlene Olsen" <darlene.olsen at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern


>I wonder if you should contact Google Inc.
>
> Eric Schmidt, CEO
> Telephone: (650) 623-4000
>
> Address: 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway,
> Mountain View, California, 94043
> Plus, negoitiate a job as a special paralegal for the company, on 
> retainer...
> Good Luck
> Darlene.Olsen at gmail.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:52 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
>
>
>> Hello all!
>>
>>
>>
>> I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
>> had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in 
>> finding
>> employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
>> including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>>
>>
>>
>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Will
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/darlene.olsen%40gmail.com
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
>> signature database 4818 (20100129) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature database 4819 (20100130) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/almomani%40optonline.net
> 



From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com  Sat Jan 30 21:50:06 2010
From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:50:06 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
In-Reply-To: <48F4164E254D495FA445DED8C91E9D13@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <277c.44bead76.38959a74@aol.com><DB53344588D34107A0CF8AFDF360FACD@hometwxakonvzn><339D26F839FF4A539D3145E0E697C140@labarre>
	<48F4164E254D495FA445DED8C91E9D13@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <A92289E000DD43D188CE79C811957A4D@russ>


Stories like this are generally ignored by the media either because the
media does not understand the issue or cannot relate very well to
individuals with disabilities.

I should also note that the story was in the LA Times; Saturday is a slow
news day, so let's see what happens next week, when the regular media people
are back to work. I am sure that there will be articles in publications
aimed at members of the Bar such as www.law.com  or Above the Law.




-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 12:41 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case

How come this wasn't on the news? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott C. LaBarre" <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


Friends, I am part of the legal team that secured this victory and was
present yesterday when Judge Breyer announced his decision.  His written
order will come out next week and we will certainly pass it on.  I doubt
very much that the National Conference of Bar Examiners will appeal this but
one never knows.  If they do, we will know immediately because they will
need to request extremely expedited review.  They are  under order to
provide the requested accommodations for the February 2010 bar exam.  This
is a wonderful victory and I cannot tell  you how good it felt to hear Judge
Breyer's decision yesterday morning.  We were prepared to make substantial
arguments in favor of our motion for preliminary injunction but were
delighted to see that Judge Breyer granted our motion immediately from the
bench.  Opposing counsel attempted to talk him out of it or in some way get
him to limit the ruling, but he batted such attempts away.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read,
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> Do you think this case will make it to the court of appeals? Even to the 
> US supreme court? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <AZNOR99 at aol.com>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>
>
>> As I understand it,  a written opinion has not yet been  issued.  The 
>> judge
>> indicated that the National Conference of Bar Examiners  violated
>> Stephanie's rights by refusing to allow her to use the technology of  her

>> choice to
>> take the Multiple Choice Section of the Bar Exam.  I was not  present at 
>> the
>> ruling, I only heard Dr. Maurer discuss it this morning.
>>
>> Congratulations, Stephanie!  This has been a long time coming, and
>> hopefully all blind lawyers will now be able to use the accommodations 
>> they deem
>> necessary in all future Bar Examinations.
>>
>> Ronza
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/30/2010 8:03:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Hey, I  am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And 
>> where
>> can I  find it on Line? RJ
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From:  <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47  AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>>
>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing  list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>  blindlaw:
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/o
>> ptions/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw  mailing  list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefu
r%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarre
law.com
>



_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefu
r%40gmail.com 


_______________________________________________
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From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Jan 31 02:20:13 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 20:20:13 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <0a5501caa1a5$d5076d70$7f164850$@com>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
	<auto-000137520014@mailfront1.g2host.com>
	<0a5501caa1a5$d5076d70$7f164850$@com>
Message-ID: <auto-000137306129@mailfront2.g2host.com>

The From:, subject, and possibly date would be good.

Dave

At 06:14 AM 1/30/2010, you wrote:
>Hi David.  It is a copy of my resume.  It has my name, William T. Burley.
>I'm not sure what the message said since it's been a very long time since I
>put my resume on here.  Can you tell me what other information you may need?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of David Andrews
>Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:29 AM
>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern
>
>I can have it removed from the archives, if you give me specifics
>about the message, so we can find it.  However, stuff is cached by
>Google and others, so this doesn't mean it just disappears instantly.
>
>David Andrews, List Owner
>
>At 06:52 PM 1/29/2010, you wrote:
> >Hello all!
> >
> >
> >
> >I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
> >had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in
>finding
> >employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
> >including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
> >



From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Jan 31 02:21:55 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 20:21:55 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
In-Reply-To: <FDDE5042D8D14615937BF959F8F7E455@FJP7MG1>
References: <098501caa146$871d56b0$95580410$@com>
	<E21513943C7542ACBC4904E3301CAA60@DarleneOlsen>
	<FDDE5042D8D14615937BF959F8F7E455@FJP7MG1>
Message-ID: <auto-000137572529@mailfront1.g2host.com>

When you say get out do you mean unsubscribe.  If so, there is a link 
at the bottom of each message.

Dave

At 03:08 PM 1/30/2010, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>Is there a way for me to get out of the list?
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Darlene Olsen" <darlene.olsen at gmail.com>
>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:59 PM
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concern
>
>
>>I wonder if you should contact Google Inc.
>>
>>Eric Schmidt, CEO
>>Telephone: (650) 623-4000
>>
>>Address: 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway,
>>Mountain View, California, 94043
>>Plus, negoitiate a job as a special paralegal for the company, on retainer...
>>Good Luck
>>Darlene.Olsen at gmail.com
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:52 PM
>>Subject: [blindlaw] Concern
>>
>>
>>>Hello all!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I did a google search on myself and found some disturbing information.  I
>>>had previously sent my resume to those on the list for assistance in finding
>>>employment.  Unfortunately, I found that all my contact information
>>>including exact address and telephone numbers are on the internet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Is there anyway I can get this off the list serv?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Will



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 31 07:48:24 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 23:48:24 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
In-Reply-To: <1B694C84998F497E8668504A77354CC6@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <5A1935AA978748F8AAD79C149CAEA936@spike>
	<1B694C84998F497E8668504A77354CC6@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <ADDDF1A2C1F645968A1BDA306FB8FA4C@spike>

it was an article from the L.A. Times. I'm not sure why it didn't come 
through.
Chuck

latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-us-bar-exam-ruling,0,5871149.story

latimes.com
Judge says officials wrong to prohibit blind UCLA grad's use of computer 
during state bar exam
By Associated Press

3:36 PM PST, January 29, 2010

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - A federal judge says a blind law school graduate can 
use a computer during the multiple-choice portion of the California bar 
exam, a test all must pass to practice law in the state.

U.S. District Court Judge Charles Breyer ruled Friday that University of 
California, Los Angeles law school graduate Stephanie Enyart's request to 
use software designed for blind test takers was a reasonable request.

The National Conference of Bar Examiners Inc., which administers that 
portion of the test for the State Bar of California, had cited security 
concerns in its opposition of Enyart's request.

The nonprofit argued it made several significant accommodations - such as 
extra time and allowing a live reader - so that Enyart could take the 
paper-and-pencil exam.

The exam starts Feb. 23.







Copyright 2010 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not 
be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 3:40 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> Hey, I am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And where 
> can I find it on Line? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47 AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 31 07:54:02 2010
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 23:54:02 -0800
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
In-Reply-To: <D26F6650E2074842B0ACAC6BD1055D49@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <5A1935AA978748F8AAD79C149CAEA936@spike>
	<D26F6650E2074842B0ACAC6BD1055D49@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <E1FD945C33004997923370278C8B80F9@spike>

I am sending you the information off list in case the article doesn't come 
through again. This was the case that the NFB was involved in that recently 
was released to address the unwillingness of the Conference of Bar Examiners 
to allow the plaintiff to use a computer with JAWS to the multiple choice 
portion of the bar exam. The article is below.
Chuck


latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-us-bar-exam-ruling,0,5871149.story

latimes.com
Judge says officials wrong to prohibit blind UCLA grad's use of computer 
during state bar exam
By Associated Press

3:36 PM PST, January 29, 2010

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - A federal judge says a blind law school graduate can 
use a computer during the multiple-choice portion of the California bar 
exam, a test all must pass to practice law in the state.

U.S. District Court Judge Charles Breyer ruled Friday that University of 
California, Los Angeles law school graduate Stephanie Enyart's request to 
use software designed for blind test takers was a reasonable request.

The National Conference of Bar Examiners Inc., which administers that 
portion of the test for the State Bar of California, had cited security 
concerns in its opposition of Enyart's request.

The nonprofit argued it made several significant accommodations - such as 
extra time and allowing a live reader - so that Enyart could take the 
paper-and-pencil exam.

The exam starts Feb. 23.







Copyright 2010 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not 
be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:06 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> What is this case about? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47 AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Sun Jan 31 17:47:52 2010
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 10:47:52 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
References: <277c.44bead76.38959a74@aol.com><DB53344588D34107A0CF8AFDF360FACD@hometwxakonvzn><339D26F839FF4A539D3145E0E697C140@labarre>
	<48F4164E254D495FA445DED8C91E9D13@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <3E18432553444B4CBC8448562675DB54@labarre>

As you have seen, we have gotten some news coverage of this from several 
California papers and the AP.  Right after the ruling, we spoke to a group 
of reporters right outside the courtroom who had observed the hearing.  I 
suspect that there will be some more coverage once Judge Breyer's written 
decision is issued.  As for the effect of this case nationwide, technically 
this is a case that only applies to Ms. Enyart.  It is not a class action. 
However, NCBE will think long and hard before denying this type of 
accommodation request again.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged 
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, 
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in 
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, 
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments 
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


How come this wasn't on the news? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott C. LaBarre" <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


Friends, I am part of the legal team that secured this victory and was
present yesterday when Judge Breyer announced his decision.  His written
order will come out next week and we will certainly pass it on.  I doubt
very much that the National Conference of Bar Examiners will appeal this but
one never knows.  If they do, we will know immediately because they will
need to request extremely expedited review.  They are  under order to
provide the requested accommodations for the February 2010 bar exam.  This
is a wonderful victory and I cannot tell  you how good it felt to hear Judge
Breyer's decision yesterday morning.  We were prepared to make substantial
arguments in favor of our motion for preliminary injunction but were
delighted to see that Judge Breyer granted our motion immediately from the
bench.  Opposing counsel attempted to talk him out of it or in some way get
him to limit the ruling, but he batted such attempts away.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read,
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> Do you think this case will make it to the court of appeals? Even to the 
> US supreme court? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <AZNOR99 at aol.com>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>
>
>> As I understand it,  a written opinion has not yet been  issued.  The 
>> judge
>> indicated that the National Conference of Bar Examiners  violated
>> Stephanie's rights by refusing to allow her to use the technology of  her 
>> choice to
>> take the Multiple Choice Section of the Bar Exam.  I was not  present at 
>> the
>> ruling, I only heard Dr. Maurer discuss it this morning.
>>
>> Congratulations, Stephanie!  This has been a long time coming, and
>> hopefully all blind lawyers will now be able to use the accommodations 
>> they deem
>> necessary in all future Bar Examinations.
>>
>> Ronza
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/30/2010 8:03:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Hey, I  am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And 
>> where
>> can I  find it on Line? RJ
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From:  <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47  AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>>
>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing  list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>  blindlaw:
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/o
>> ptions/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw  mailing  list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com
>



_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
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From cdanielsen8 at aol.com  Sun Jan 31 19:16:06 2010
From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:16:06 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
In-Reply-To: <339D26F839FF4A539D3145E0E697C140@labarre>
References: <277c.44bead76.38959a74@aol.com><DB53344588D34107A0CF8AFDF360FACD@hometwxakonvzn>
	<339D26F839FF4A539D3145E0E697C140@labarre>
Message-ID: <841D093690344A4283AE00B070FABC06@Scorpio13>

Scott,

This is great news and it's awesome that the judge ruled without oral
argument. Congratulations on this victory.

Chris
 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:42 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case

Friends, I am part of the legal team that secured this victory and was
present yesterday when Judge Breyer announced his decision.  His written
order will come out next week and we will certainly pass it on.  I doubt
very much that the National Conference of Bar Examiners will appeal this but
one never knows.  If they do, we will know immediately because they will
need to request extremely expedited review.  They are  under order to
provide the requested accommodations for the February 2010 bar exam.  This
is a wonderful victory and I cannot tell  you how good it felt to hear Judge
Breyer's decision yesterday morning.  We were prepared to make substantial
arguments in favor of our motion for preliminary injunction but were
delighted to see that Judge Breyer granted our motion immediately from the
bench.  Opposing counsel attempted to talk him out of it or in some way get
him to limit the ruling, but he batted such attempts away.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read,
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments
are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§
2510-2521.
----- Original Message -----
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case


> Do you think this case will make it to the court of appeals? Even to 
> the US supreme court? RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <AZNOR99 at aol.com>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>
>
>> As I understand it,  a written opinion has not yet been  issued.  The 
>> judge indicated that the National Conference of Bar Examiners  
>> violated Stephanie's rights by refusing to allow her to use the 
>> technology of  her choice to take the Multiple Choice Section of the 
>> Bar Exam.  I was not  present at the ruling, I only heard Dr. Maurer 
>> discuss it this morning.
>>
>> Congratulations, Stephanie!  This has been a long time coming, and 
>> hopefully all blind lawyers will now be able to use the 
>> accommodations they deem necessary in all future Bar Examinations.
>>
>> Ronza
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/30/2010 8:03:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
>> joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Hey, I  am unable to open this attachment. What is this rulling? And 
>> where can I  find it on Line? RJ
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From:  <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:47  AM
>> Subject: [blindlaw] favorable ruling in Enyart case
>>
>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing  list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>>  blindlaw:
>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/o
>> ptions/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw  mailing  list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>> for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40a
>> ol.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjack
>> sandefur%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40l
> abarrelaw.com
> 



_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol.
com

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database 4822 (20100131) __________

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