[blindlaw] petition

Tai Blas taiablas at gmail.com
Wed Jan 13 01:06:09 UTC 2010 

Steve,

I respectfully disagree. I have heard folks say that the NFB centers only
take the "cream of the crop," not those whom you call "hard-luck" with
additional challenges who have a difficult time at other centers. I have
attended an NFB training center and the fact is that they take students of
all abilities and do an excellent job of rehabilitating them. These centers
do not pick and choose. The same cannot be said for most state centers,
Hawaii, Iowa, Nebraska, New Mexico, BISM, and Kris Cole, and possibly a few
others excluded. Some states, Utah included, are genuinely striving to
improve training and adjustment services for their blind clients. If you
placed a "hard-luck" client with sufficient motivation in a low-performing
state center and then placed them at an NFB training center or in one of the
high-performing state centers I mentioned above, they would progress and
improve much more at the NFB or NFB-model training center than in the
low-performing state center. Employment statistics highlight those centers
and agencies that are performing well in this regard and I am not talking
about placements in sheltered employment.

State VR programs pay for their clients to attend centers, whether in state
or out of state. They save no money by sending clients to a low-performing
center, only to have that client come back in two years having lost their
job and needing additional training. The program quality of high-performing
centers and the long-term benefits they provide to clients is worth any
difference in cost. Often, the difference between the difference in cost
between attending state centers and attending NFB centers is negligible.
These centers are not as expensive as you might think.

Tai

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:29 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition

I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB centers
compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the
hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to make
it in a NFB run center.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the 
> quality of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer 
> and the state is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive 
> some of the non-NFB programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a 
> lot of money by maintaining the status quo.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for 
>> the state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency 
>> is always trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>
>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states 
>> would crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  
>> It's been my experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not 
>> sure why there is no money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what 
>> I've experienced.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the 
>>> local NFB chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about 
>>> blindness.
>>> There
>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>
>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not.  
>>> They are tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>
>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution, 
>>> then they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting 
>>> money on frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness 
>>> center, funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB 
>>> centers at those same tax payers expense.  That is just not right or 
>>> fiscally possible..  If the NFB wants these clients from states with 
>>> blindness centers in place to attend NFB centers, they should 
>>> establish scholarships or pay the way with NFB funding.  The 
>>> budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.  States with 
>>> blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB centers.
>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is 
>>> like saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a 
>>> consumer to attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, 
>>> there limitedf resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer 
>>> wants to attend a private college, they need to pay the difference 
>>> or get scholarships to makeup the difference from what a state 
>>> agency is able to pay.  Usually, state agencies will pay for blind 
>>> consumers to attend in-state institutions.
>>>
>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must 
>>> make up the difference.  The same should go for the consumer 
>>> attending a NFB center if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to 
>>>> them in person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is 
>>>> really not going to do much.
>>>>
>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell 
>>>> them why it doesn't work explain it to them because they have no 
>>>> idea why things do not work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency 
>>>>> does not want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab 
>>>>> centers such as the NFB centers and rehab clients have had to 
>>>>> request hearings and other things to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state 
>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend 
>>>>>> National Federation of the blind training centers and they should 
>>>>>> be fully paid for by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please 
>>>>>> rewrite...."
>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is 
>>>>>> being experienced?
>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training Centers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South 
>>>>>> Florida mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee 
>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 
>>>>>> 1993-2005 www.ada.gov Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence 
>>>>>> Against Women, USDOJ www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this 
>>>>>> have little if any real effect with Congress. It is much more 
>>>>>> effective to use a system of actual letters that can 
>>>>>> electronically be submitted to members of Congress and/or state 
>>>>>> legislators. Working with many groups as a consultant on 
>>>>>> legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While 
>>>>>> consumers definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend 
>>>>>> facilities of their choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 
>>>>>> 1973 or any other legislation will not get rewritten using this 
>>>>>> format.
>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-a
>> ct-1973
>>> /
>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> blindlaw:
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>>>>>>>
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40
>> sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> for
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>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40po
>> box.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>> sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>> ail.com
>>>>>
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>
>
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