From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Mar 1 16:23:40 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 10:23:40 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Nominate Now for ABA Paul G. Hearne Award for Disability Rights Message-ID: ________________________________ From: Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law [mailto:cmpdl at abanet.org] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 4:00 AM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: Nominate Now for ABA Paul G. Hearne Award for Disability Rights [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/CMPDL.gif][http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/HearneLogo_NoCMPDLLogo.jpg] Nominate Now for ABA Paul G. Hearne Award for Disability Rights! The American Bar Association Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law is pleased to present the Paul G. Hearne Award for Disability Rights. Each year, an award is presented to an individual who or an organization that has performed exemplary service in furthering the rights, dignity, and access to justice for people with disabilities. The award will be presented at the ABA's 2010 Annual Meeting in San Francisco, CA. There is a $1,000 honorarium for the winner. However, time is running out. Nominations must be postmarked or e-mailed by April 1, 2010. This award, created in 1999, honors the work of Paul G. Hearne, a lawyer whose connective tissue disorder limited his growth to less than four feet and restricted his movement. Nonetheless, he moved mountains. Mr. Hearne's mark on the disability rights movement, especially from a legal perspective, was tremendous. Learn more about the award. For questions, contact: William J. Phelan, IV, Esq. 202-662-1576 phelanw at staff.abanet.org Past Recipient [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/center.jpg]The 2009 Award was given to Claudia B. Center, a Senior Staff Attorney at the Legal Aid Society - Employment Law Center in San Francisco, California. Her efforts have contributed greatly to the advancement of legal rights for persons with disabilities. She has been directly involved in several landmark cases, including U.S. Airways, Inc. v. Barnett, in which she argued before the U.S. Supreme Court that there should be no presumption under the Americans with Disabilities Act that reasonable accommodation requests that may interfere with the seniority rights of other workers constitute an undue burden. 740 15th Street, N.W., 9th Floor| Washington, DC 20005-1022 | 202.662.1570 | cmpdl at abanet.org Your e-mail address will only be used within the ABA and its entities. We do not sell or rent e-mail addresses to anyone outside the ABA. Update your profile | Unsubscribe | Privacy Policy American Bar Association | 321 N Clark | Chicago, IL 60654 | 1-800-285-2221 From CDanielsen at nfb.org Wed Mar 3 07:02:19 2010 From: CDanielsen at nfb.org (Danielsen, Chris) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 01:02:19 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Court Rules that National Conference of Bar Examiners Must Provide Individualized Testing Accommodations to Blind Law School Graduate Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org Court Rules that National Conference of Bar Examiners Must Provide Individualized Testing Accommodations to Blind Law School Graduate Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Denies NCBE Motion to Stay Preliminary Injunction San Francisco, California (February 24, 2010): The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals yesterday refused to stay a preliminary injunction requiring the National Conference of Bar Examiners (NCBE) to provide a blind law school graduate with the technology-based testing accommodations she needs to take two exams required to become a member of the State Bar of California. A federal judge had previously granted the preliminary injunction requiring the accommodations, but the NCBE appealed the ruling. The Ninth Circuit's ruling allows the plaintiff, Stephanie Enyart, to take the February 2010 Multistate Bar Examination (MBE) and March 2010 Multistate Professional Responsibility Examination (MPRE) on a laptop computer equipped with the assistive technology software Ms. Enyart relies upon for screen reading (JAWS) and screen magnification (ZoomText). Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "The court's action puts an end to Stephanie Enyart's year-long ordeal to get the accommodations she needs to take this crucial step in her chosen career. As we have said before, those who control admission to the practice of law must themselves obey the law." The suit was filed on November 3, 2009, due to the NCBE's refusal, on multiple occasions during the past year, to allow Ms. Enyart to use the same technology on the MBE and MPRE that she has used on university and law school exams and in various jobs and internships. The suit charged that the NCBE violated the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and California's Unruh Civil Rights Act by denying accommodations on the MBE and the MPRE. NCBE had argued that it fulfilled its legal obligations to Ms. Enyart by offering alternative accommodations, such as a human reader, notwithstanding evidence that these alternatives did not, in fact, fully accommodate Ms. Enyart's disability. In rejecting NCBE's argument, the court's ruling paves the way for other individuals prevented from pursuing their professional dreams by high stakes testing providers who take a rigid approach to disability accommodations. The plaintiff is represented with the support of the National Federation of the Blind by LaBarre Law Offices, P.C., in Denver, Colorado, and by Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP, in Baltimore, Maryland. The plaintiff is further represented by Disability Rights Advocates, a nonprofit law center that specializes in civil rights cases on behalf of persons with disabilities, based in Berkeley, California. ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Thu Mar 4 15:25:04 2010 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 07:25:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] westlaw and the c.f.r.? Message-ID: <217059.34684.qm@web112403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi everybody.   I'm currently in the process of obtaining a security clearance for a job with the feds. One of my major duties will be using Westlaw to research regs and all that good stuff. When I was in law school, I utilized Westlaw because I preferred it over Lexis (easier to navigate, etc., as I've read from other members' posts on this list.)   Anyway, I remember my law librarian telling me that Westlaw only goes back to the mid 1970's or something like that for the C.F.R. For those of you who research the C.F.R. as a fed or in your general practice, where do you go if you need a reg that predates Westlaw's collection? Is there an web site that has all of the regs?   Thanks.   Mike From mikefry79 at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 16:05:12 2010 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 08:05:12 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Court Rules that National Conference of Bar Examiners Must Provide Individualized Testing Accommodations to Blind Law School Graduate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8c58e54a1003040805g184c6909jba9d3f16feada54@mail.gmail.com> woowhoo!! Great News On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Danielsen, Chris wrote: > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > > CONTACT: > > Chris Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > National Federation of the Blind > > (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 > > (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > > cdanielsen at nfb.org > > > Court Rules that National Conference of Bar Examiners Must Provide > Individualized Testing Accommodations to Blind Law School Graduate > > > > > Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Denies NCBE Motion to Stay Preliminary > Injunction > > > > San Francisco, California (February 24, 2010): The Ninth Circuit Court of > Appeals yesterday refused to stay a preliminary injunction requiring the > National Conference of Bar Examiners (NCBE) to provide a blind law school > graduate with the technology-based testing accommodations she needs to take > two exams required to become a member of the State Bar of California. A > federal judge had previously granted the preliminary injunction requiring > the accommodations, but the NCBE appealed the ruling. The Ninth Circuit's > ruling allows the plaintiff, Stephanie Enyart, to take the February 2010 > Multistate Bar Examination (MBE) and March 2010 Multistate Professional > Responsibility Examination (MPRE) on a laptop computer equipped with the > assistive technology software Ms. Enyart relies upon for screen reading > (JAWS) and screen magnification (ZoomText). > > > > Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: > "The court's action puts an end to Stephanie Enyart's year-long ordeal to > get the accommodations she needs to take this crucial step in her chosen > career. As we have said before, those who control admission to the practice > of law must themselves obey the law." > > > > The suit was filed on November 3, 2009, due to the NCBE's refusal, on > multiple occasions during the past year, to allow Ms. Enyart to use the same > technology on the MBE and MPRE that she has used on university and law > school exams and in various jobs and internships. The suit charged that the > NCBE violated the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and California's > Unruh Civil Rights Act by denying accommodations on the MBE and the MPRE. > > > > NCBE had argued that it fulfilled its legal obligations to Ms. Enyart by > offering alternative accommodations, such as a human reader, notwithstanding > evidence that these alternatives did not, in fact, fully accommodate Ms. > Enyart's disability. In rejecting NCBE's argument, the court's ruling paves > the way for other individuals prevented from pursuing their professional > dreams by high stakes testing providers who take a rigid approach to > disability accommodations. > > > > The plaintiff is represented with the support of the National Federation of > the Blind by LaBarre Law Offices, P.C., in Denver, Colorado, and by Brown, > Goldstein & Levy, LLP, in Baltimore, Maryland. The plaintiff is further > represented by Disability Rights Advocates, a nonprofit law center that > specializes in civil rights cases on behalf of persons with disabilities, > based in Berkeley, California. > > > > > > ### > > > > > > About the National Federation of the Blind > > With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the > largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the > United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, > education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and > self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and > the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the > National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and > training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From b75205 at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 16:21:53 2010 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 10:21:53 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Court Rules that National Conference of Bar Examiners Must Provide Individualized Testing Accommodations to Blind Law School Graduate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well this has always been the dodge of companies, schools and institutions to prevent access by claiming that content is theoretically accessible, when in fact it is practically not accessible. This divide between theory and reality needs to be broken down and attacked because it is the crucial factor in whether there is access or not. Colleges claim that their applications forms are accessible to the blind and yet they are not even close. They claim accessibility by testing their web pages with programs such as Bobby which no longer exists. they don't actually test their accessibility with anything used by the blind. I was over at a local university and they claimed online application for employment was accessible to the blind because they just hired a blind person who did not make any complaint about the form. The form is not even close to being accessible, it was clear that the person got someone to help them fill it out. This institution that has 1200 employees considers itself accessible because they have one blind employee. Practical useful accessibility should be the goal of any action, where it can be demonstrated that the content is accessible using the products the blind use on a normal basis. If it is accessible to one program it should be accessible to another. I can do that with my process. Also since this is a legal list, I think that the blind should demand that there be a "Meeting of the Minds" in all contracts, forms and documents. The way we have it now is that Party A makes a document. Party B must use many different processes and programs to try to determine what Party A meant. That document is usually different than what Party A meant but visually it is the same document as Party A's document. Where is the "Meeting of the Minds?" Why is it Party B's responsibility to present Party A's position? Could this be used to challenge every contract, form and document presented to the blind? Also given the state of things today it is perfectly possible for Party B to receive content that is not the intention of Party A or is purposely not the same content. It gets even worse because some screen readers read different types of content in the same document so the output is different. I am saying the blind do not get all of the information and when they receive it, it is not necessarily the content that is in the document. It can be misleading, whether intentional or not. I would think that insurance companies would have a problem with businesses sending out content that is not checked to see if the content is accurate to the blind. This content is usually never checked, very few people actually test their content with screen readers, because if they did they would have corrected their errors by now, I mean this is obvious! So I was wondering if all of the current content should be challenged in court. For instance what about social security lawyers, why couldn't they challenge all of the decisions of the Social Security Department for not making their content accessible to the blind. Challenge all the Social Security Applications that failed. James Pepper From rogerbaccus at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 20:17:14 2010 From: rogerbaccus at gmail.com (Roger Baccus) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 15:17:14 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] AnyLoopHoles4OhioLease? Message-ID: <015a01cabbd7$aeacbf80$6601a8c0@rogerbaccus> I signed a lease for one year on 10/04/09. Subsequently, I bought a house and desire to get out of lease. What are my options. The landlord wants to keep my deposit and hold me responsible for half of the remaining time on the lease. What can I do? Can you refer attorney in Columbus, Ohio? Thanks in advance. Skype = Baccus2007 WebSite = http://www.rogerbaccus.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 22:05:55 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 17:05:55 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Court Rules that National Conference of BarExaminers Must Provide Individualized Testing Accommodationsto Blind Law School Graduate References: <8c58e54a1003040805g184c6909jba9d3f16feada54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Where Can I go, to read the rulling? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Fry" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Court Rules that National Conference of BarExaminers Must Provide Individualized Testing Accommodationsto Blind Law School Graduate > woowhoo!! Great News > > On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Danielsen, Chris > wrote: > >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> >> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> Court Rules that National Conference of Bar Examiners Must Provide >> Individualized Testing Accommodations to Blind Law School Graduate >> >> >> >> >> Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Denies NCBE Motion to Stay Preliminary >> Injunction >> >> >> >> San Francisco, California (February 24, 2010): The Ninth Circuit Court of >> Appeals yesterday refused to stay a preliminary injunction requiring the >> National Conference of Bar Examiners (NCBE) to provide a blind law school >> graduate with the technology-based testing accommodations she needs to >> take >> two exams required to become a member of the State Bar of California. A >> federal judge had previously granted the preliminary injunction requiring >> the accommodations, but the NCBE appealed the ruling. The Ninth >> Circuit's >> ruling allows the plaintiff, Stephanie Enyart, to take the February 2010 >> Multistate Bar Examination (MBE) and March 2010 Multistate Professional >> Responsibility Examination (MPRE) on a laptop computer equipped with the >> assistive technology software Ms. Enyart relies upon for screen reading >> (JAWS) and screen magnification (ZoomText). >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: >> "The court's action puts an end to Stephanie Enyart's year-long ordeal to >> get the accommodations she needs to take this crucial step in her chosen >> career. As we have said before, those who control admission to the >> practice >> of law must themselves obey the law." >> >> >> >> The suit was filed on November 3, 2009, due to the NCBE's refusal, on >> multiple occasions during the past year, to allow Ms. Enyart to use the >> same >> technology on the MBE and MPRE that she has used on university and law >> school exams and in various jobs and internships. The suit charged that >> the >> NCBE violated the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and California's >> Unruh Civil Rights Act by denying accommodations on the MBE and the MPRE. >> >> >> >> NCBE had argued that it fulfilled its legal obligations to Ms. Enyart by >> offering alternative accommodations, such as a human reader, >> notwithstanding >> evidence that these alternatives did not, in fact, fully accommodate Ms. >> Enyart's disability. In rejecting NCBE's argument, the court's ruling >> paves >> the way for other individuals prevented from pursuing their professional >> dreams by high stakes testing providers who take a rigid approach to >> disability accommodations. >> >> >> >> The plaintiff is represented with the support of the National Federation >> of >> the Blind by LaBarre Law Offices, P.C., in Denver, Colorado, and by >> Brown, >> Goldstein & Levy, LLP, in Baltimore, Maryland. The plaintiff is further >> represented by Disability Rights Advocates, a nonprofit law center that >> specializes in civil rights cases on behalf of persons with disabilities, >> based in Berkeley, California. >> >> >> >> >> >> ### >> >> >> >> >> >> About the National Federation of the Blind >> >> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is >> the >> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in >> the >> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, >> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence >> and >> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today >> and >> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the >> National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research >> and >> training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Mar 5 00:30:12 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 18:30:12 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] westlaw and the c.f.r.? In-Reply-To: <217059.34684.qm@web112403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: To my knowledge, there is no website or electronic source that has all code of federal regulations from the beginning of time. I have had to research regulations from the 1960s and found no electronic source, only the hardcopy in my agency's library. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Gilmore Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 7:25 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] westlaw and the c.f.r.? Hi everybody.   I'm currently in the process of obtaining a security clearance for a job with the feds. One of my major duties will be using Westlaw to research regs and all that good stuff. When I was in law school, I utilized Westlaw because I preferred it over Lexis (easier to navigate, etc., as I've read from other members' posts on this list.)   Anyway, I remember my law librarian telling me that Westlaw only goes back to the mid 1970's or something like that for the C.F.R. For those of you who research the C.F.R. as a fed or in your general practice, where do you go if you need a reg that predates Westlaw's collection? Is there an web site that has all of the regs?   Thanks.   Mike _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From DFrye at nfb.org Fri Mar 5 12:54:40 2010 From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 07:54:40 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] AnyLoopHoles4OhioLease? In-Reply-To: <015a01cabbd7$aeacbf80$6601a8c0@rogerbaccus> Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02217266@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Roger: This question doesn't sound especially blindness related, so I'd recommend that you go to the Bar Association in your city or state to find a landlord tenant attorney. Rental laws vary from state-to-state, but generally the terms of the agreement you signed will govern. Often some consequences exist for breaking a lease. Leases give renters the security of knowing they have a place to rent for a finite period of time; they give owners the security of knowing that they have a reliable renter for the same period. The details of the agreement are designed to encourage all parties to honor those terms. And, on the occasion when the lease is to be violated, it's usual for the offender to incur the consequences of terminating the lease. The remedy you describe, forfeiting your deposit and being responsible for half of the lease, doesn't seem unusual or particularly harsh, but I don't know the specifics of Ohio law. Breaking a lease is not inherently wrong or illegal; it just comes with certain legal consequences associated with such a business decision. Good luck. Dan Frye -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roger Baccus Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 3:17 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] AnyLoopHoles4OhioLease? I signed a lease for one year on 10/04/09. Subsequently, I bought a house and desire to get out of lease. What are my options. The landlord wants to keep my deposit and hold me responsible for half of the remaining time on the lease. What can I do? Can you refer attorney in Columbus, Ohio? Thanks in advance. Skype = Baccus2007 WebSite = http://www.rogerbaccus.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.or g From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Fri Mar 5 14:38:34 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 09:38:34 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] AnyLoopHoles4OhioLease? In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02217266@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02217266@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <41A3F03856454593B3BDE293F3B78962@StevePC> Tell him to work on subleasing the apartment with the owners permission. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frye, Dan" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] AnyLoopHoles4OhioLease? > Roger: > > This question doesn't sound especially blindness related, so I'd > recommend that you go to the Bar Association in your city or state to > find a landlord tenant attorney. Rental laws vary from state-to-state, > but generally the terms of the agreement you signed will govern. Often > some consequences exist for breaking a lease. Leases give renters the > security of knowing they have a place to rent for a finite period of > time; they give owners the security of knowing that they have a reliable > renter for the same period. The details of the agreement are designed to > encourage all parties to honor those terms. And, on the occasion when > the lease is to be violated, it's usual for the offender to incur the > consequences of terminating the lease. The remedy you describe, > forfeiting your deposit and being responsible for half of the lease, > doesn't seem unusual or particularly harsh, but I don't know the > specifics of Ohio law. Breaking a lease is not inherently wrong or > illegal; it just comes with certain legal consequences associated with > such a business decision. Good luck. > > Dan Frye > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Roger Baccus > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 3:17 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] AnyLoopHoles4OhioLease? > > I signed a lease for one year on 10/04/09. Subsequently, I bought a > house and desire to get out of lease. What are my options. The landlord > wants to keep my deposit and hold me responsible for half of the > remaining time on the lease. What can I do? > > Can you refer attorney in Columbus, Ohio? > > Thanks in advance. > > > Skype = Baccus2007 WebSite = http://www.rogerbaccus.com > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.or > g > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2723 - Release Date: 03/05/10 07:34:00 From lists at zufelt.ca Sat Mar 6 12:56:48 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 07:56:48 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Canadian Federal Court to hear Charter violation regarding web accessibility Message-ID: Good morning all, For anyone who is unaware and interested, the Canadian Federal Court will be hearing a case this may regarding the accessibility of Federal Government web-sites. To the best of my knowledge the action is being brought as a section 15 Charter violation against the Government. s. 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights, which is constitutional law, states: 15 (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability. There isn't a great deal of information floating around about this case. A couple of links below can provide a little more information Web-site of firm handling the case http://www.bakerlaw.ca/?q=taxonomy/term/60 Facebook Group related to the case http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=359483366688&v=info Thanks, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Mar 8 19:44:39 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 13:44:39 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Testing, testing, blind lawyers, please do not reply Message-ID: This is only a test. Please do not respond. Noel From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 13:42:29 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:42:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help Message-ID: <2B73FF3186784319B78180084DD353C1@hometwxakonvzn> I'm forwarding this messege I got off of the NFBF list. What or how can this woman address this issue? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:24 PM Subject: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help > Hi, guys. I just got word from DBS that my stay at Colorado Center > for the Blind was denied. According to Beth Crain, my counselor, "DBS > is not able to send someone that far away, when there are other > options closer." I call it bullshit and against my right to informed > choice. If any of you guys wants to help me with this, that would be > nice. > Sincerely, > Beth Taurasi > > _______________________________________________ > Nfbf-l mailing list > Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > Nfbf-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From LBlake at nfb.org Tue Mar 9 13:46:44 2010 From: LBlake at nfb.org (Blake, Lou Ann) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:46:44 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02263074@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org From david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us Tue Mar 9 14:27:32 2010 From: david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us (Hyde, David W. (ESC)) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:27:32 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help In-Reply-To: <2B73FF3186784319B78180084DD353C1@hometwxakonvzn> References: <2B73FF3186784319B78180084DD353C1@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <8FE3DA4A52652B4D8EC80883B3DC1233673A5209E7@tiger> Tell her to talk to Julie Deeden in Colorado. This is not uncommon. You may allow want to look at your stat's appeal process, and or the Client Assistance Project. If their objection is distance, suggest Louisiana. Although Julie and the Colorado staff run a great program, Pam and the bunch in Louisiana do to, as does Al Spooner in MN. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:42 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help I'm forwarding this messege I got off of the NFBF list. What or how can this woman address this issue? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:24 PM Subject: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help > Hi, guys. I just got word from DBS that my stay at Colorado Center > for the Blind was denied. According to Beth Crain, my counselor, "DBS > is not able to send someone that far away, when there are other > options closer." I call it bullshit and against my right to informed > choice. If any of you guys wants to help me with this, that would be > nice. > Sincerely, > Beth Taurasi > > _______________________________________________ > Nfbf-l mailing list > Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > Nfbf-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksan > defur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/david.hyde%40wcbvi.k12.wi.us From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 14:46:09 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:46:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help References: <2B73FF3186784319B78180084DD353C1@hometwxakonvzn> <8FE3DA4A52652B4D8EC80883B3DC1233673A5209E7@tiger> Message-ID: <10AB77F22D06493D8D33B064681B2776@hometwxakonvzn> She doesn't want to go to Louisiana. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hyde, David W. (ESC)" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help > Tell her to talk to Julie Deeden in Colorado. This is not uncommon. You > may allow want to look at your stat's appeal process, and or the Client > Assistance Project. If their objection is distance, suggest Louisiana. > Although Julie and the Colorado staff run a great program, Pam and the > bunch in Louisiana do to, as does Al Spooner in MN. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:42 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help > > I'm forwarding this messege I got off of the NFBF list. What or how can > this woman address this issue? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:24 PM > Subject: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help > > >> Hi, guys. I just got word from DBS that my stay at Colorado Center >> for the Blind was denied. According to Beth Crain, my counselor, "DBS >> is not able to send someone that far away, when there are other >> options closer." I call it bullshit and against my right to informed >> choice. If any of you guys wants to help me with this, that would be >> nice. >> Sincerely, >> Beth Taurasi >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nfbf-l mailing list >> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> Nfbf-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksan >> defur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/david.hyde%40wcbvi.k12.wi.us > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From blindliteracy at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 16:55:12 2010 From: blindliteracy at gmail.com (Blind Literacy) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:55:12 +0900 Subject: [blindlaw] Canada has no Federal disability Act, so please help us hold our Government to Account Message-ID: Hello friends and colleagues, We are calling upon the Government of Canada to ensure that all information and services offered through Federal Government websites be made to comply with WCAG 2.0 guidelines by December 31, 2010. Please copy and paste the below into your internet browser. Take action today by signing our online petition at: You can read more about our campaign and join us on Facebook at: You can also send your support by email to: Please share this with your friends, colleagues, and supporters of e-accessibility. Accessible websites mean stronger communities and healthier economies! _______________ Quick Facts: + Over 800,000 Canadians have seeing limitations that require accommodations. + If a website is not accessible, then to a blind person, it does not exist. + Government of Canada websites fail simple accessibility compliance tests. + Offenders include many major Federal departments, including Canada's largest employer, the Public Service Commission Help us Support Donna Jodhan in her Charter challenge against the Attorney General of Canada, scheduled for May 19-21, 2010! Best regards, Derek Wilson _______________ From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 17:22:53 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 12:22:53 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help In-Reply-To: <8FE3DA4A52652B4D8EC80883B3DC1233673A5209E7@tiger> References: <2B73FF3186784319B78180084DD353C1@hometwxakonvzn> <8FE3DA4A52652B4D8EC80883B3DC1233673A5209E7@tiger> Message-ID: <4383d01d1003090922x6b59ba2egd46559b2ef1d02ee@mail.gmail.com> I've already spoken to CAP and Walter Blackman, and Ii've also got Julie to speak with. So I've got all the strings to pull right. Beth On 3/9/10, Hyde, David W. (ESC) wrote: > Tell her to talk to Julie Deeden in Colorado. This is not uncommon. You may > allow want to look at your stat's appeal process, and or the Client > Assistance Project. If their objection is distance, suggest Louisiana. > Although Julie and the Colorado staff run a great program, Pam and the bunch > in Louisiana do to, as does Al Spooner in MN. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:42 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help > > I'm forwarding this messege I got off of the NFBF list. What or how can this > woman address this issue? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:24 PM > Subject: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help > > >> Hi, guys. I just got word from DBS that my stay at Colorado Center >> for the Blind was denied. According to Beth Crain, my counselor, "DBS >> is not able to send someone that far away, when there are other >> options closer." I call it bullshit and against my right to informed >> choice. If any of you guys wants to help me with this, that would be >> nice. >> Sincerely, >> Beth Taurasi >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nfbf-l mailing list >> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> Nfbf-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksan >> defur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/david.hyde%40wcbvi.k12.wi.us > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Tue Mar 9 19:53:12 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 12:53:12 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Message-ID: <6D136D62838A44A3830E18E0FEEB9255@labarre> NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: nabl session announcement spring 2010.doc Type: application/msword Size: 26624 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 9 23:05:46 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 15:05:46 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help In-Reply-To: <2B73FF3186784319B78180084DD353C1@hometwxakonvzn> References: <2B73FF3186784319B78180084DD353C1@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <8C3601C7EFDC42E5B288C7431537010B@spike> The procedure would be for Beth to appeal this decision to a hearing. Each state has procedures for rehab clients to appeal decisions through a fair hearing process. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 5:42 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help > I'm forwarding this messege I got off of the NFBF list. What or how can > this woman address this issue? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:24 PM > Subject: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help > > >> Hi, guys. I just got word from DBS that my stay at Colorado Center >> for the Blind was denied. According to Beth Crain, my counselor, "DBS >> is not able to send someone that far away, when there are other >> options closer." I call it bullshit and against my right to informed >> choice. If any of you guys wants to help me with this, that would be >> nice. >> Sincerely, >> Beth Taurasi >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nfbf-l mailing list >> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> Nfbf-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Mar 9 23:27:44 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 17:27:44 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:28 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice ________________________________ From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:32 PM To: nawl at nawl.org; ncai at ncai.org; nedy at wyjlaw.com; newmedia at ja.org; Neysas at dnfsb.gov; Maurer, Patricia; nijc at aol.com; nlove at opd.state.md.us; nmcconnell at jackscamp.com; noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; nwpatton at law.stanford.edu; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE PROGRAM -- ALBANY, NY ASSISTANT U.S. TRUSTEE Applications must be postmarked no later than midnight of the closing date and received within 5 calendar days. Date posted: 03-08-2010 * RESIDENT LEGAL ADVISOR IN IRAQ OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING (OPDAT) U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION WASHINGTON, D.C. ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 10-CRM-OPDAT-012 Open until filled. Date posted: 03-05-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF OKLAHOMA 10-WOK-15-A Resumes must be received no later than March 19, 2010. Date posted: 03-05-2010 * COUNSEL, FRAUD SECTION (GS-0905-15) CRIMINAL DIVISION U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WASHINGTON, DC 10-CRM-FRD-011 Applications should be postmarked no later than March 17, 2010. Date posted: 03-04-2010 * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FRESNO, CALIFORNIA 10-EDCA-10A Applications should be postmarked no later than Friday, March 19, 2010. Date posted: 03-04-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA 10-SDCA-02 Application materials must be postmarked by the deadline date of March 30, 2010. Date posted: 03-02-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA 10-SDCA-01 Application materials must be postmarked by the deadline date of March 30, 2010. Date posted: 03-02-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON SEATTLE, WASHINGTON VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT: 10-WDWA-AUSA-06 (CRIMINAL OR CIVIL) MARCH 1, 2010 - MARCH 12, 2010 Applications will be accepted through March 11, 2010. Date posted: 03-01-2010 * ATTORNEY-ADVISOR U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF LEGAL COUNSEL WASHINGTON, D.C. Application Deadline is March 19, 2010. Date posted: 02-26-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-14 to GS-15 (ILA-CAMEROON) Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. Date posted: 02-26-2010 * ATTORNEY-ADVISOR FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS CONSOLIDATED LEGAL CENTER OKLAHOMA CITY, OKLAHOMA GS-905-13 This position is open until filled, but no later than March 4, 2010. Date posted: 02-26-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN Applications must be received in our office by 5:00 p.m. on March 12, 2010. Date posted: 02-26-2010 * TRIAL ATTORNEYS, GS-12 THROUGH GS-15 CIVIL DIVISION OFFICE OF IMMIGRATION LITIGATION DISTRICT COURT SECTION WASHINGTON, DC Positions open until filled on a rolling basis. Applications should be submitted as early as possible but, in any event, not later than March 15, 2010. Date posted: 02-26-2010 * EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS / GS-12 to GS-15 CIVIL DIVISION, COMMERCIAL LITIGATION BRANCH, NATIONAL COURTS SECTION WASHINGTON, DC Positions open until filled on a rolling basis. Date posted: 02-26-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON Vacancy Announcement # 2010-1 Applications must be postmarked by March 5, 2010. Date posted: 02-26-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF INFORMATION POLICY EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS / GS-12 ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER OIP-10-001 These multiple positions will be open for five days until March 5, 2010 or until filled. Applications must be received no later than March 5, 2010. Date posted: 02-25-2010 * CHIEF, ES-905NARCOTIC AND DANGEROUS DRUG SECTION CRIMINAL DIVISION U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICEWASHINGTON, DC ANNOUNCEMENT #10-CRM-SES-02 All applications (including Mailed applications) must be received by 11:59 EST on Wednesday, March 17, 2010. Date posted: 02-19-2010 * ATTORNEY-ADVISOR FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS FEDERAL CORRECTIONAL COMPLEX TERRE HAUTE, INDIANA This position is open until filled, but no later than March 4, 2010. Date posted: 02-19-2010 * TRIAL ATTORNEY (GS-0905-13/14/15) PUBLIC INTEGRITY SECTION WASHINGTON, DC 10-CRM-PIN-010 Applications must be postmarked by March 30, 2010. Date posted: 02-18-2010 The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 9 23:33:19 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 15:33:19 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] concerns about Jet Blue Air lines site Message-ID: <52AE03242B014499A52B851F0B0522D4@spike> I vaguely remember a post inquiring about people having difficulty accessing the Jet Blue Air lines site. I received an inquiry about this site on another list and did not save the original post. Does anyone else have this information so I can forward it. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 10 07:28:26 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 23:28:26 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message In-Reply-To: <6D136D62838A44A3830E18E0FEEB9255@labarre> References: <6D136D62838A44A3830E18E0FEEB9255@labarre> Message-ID: <230729B7FE634C9AA8794272D3476BC2@spike> Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > From garymelc at msn.com Wed Mar 10 09:21:57 2010 From: garymelc at msn.com (gary melconian) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:21:57 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message In-Reply-To: <230729B7FE634C9AA8794272D3476BC2@spike> References: <6D136D62838A44A3830E18E0FEEB9255@labarre> <230729B7FE634C9AA8794272D3476BC2@spike> Message-ID: I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From aec732 at msn.com Wed Mar 10 10:59:27 2010 From: aec732 at msn.com (Annemarie Cooke) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 04:59:27 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Apply for RFB&D Scholastic Achievement Awards Soon! Message-ID: Just a few weeks left to apply! Recording for the Blind and Dyslexic® (RFB&D®) is now accepting applications for the 2010 Scholastic Achievement Awards! College seniors or graduate students who are blind or visually impaired are eligible for the award. Each year, three top winners receive $6,000 and an all-expense paid trip to Washington, DC! The deadline of April 1st is fast-approaching! Click the below link to learn more! http://www.rfbd.org/About-RFB-D/National-Achievement-Awards/108/ From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Mar 10 14:56:04 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:56:04 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message In-Reply-To: <230729B7FE634C9AA8794272D3476BC2@spike> References: <6D136D62838A44A3830E18E0FEEB9255@labarre> <230729B7FE634C9AA8794272D3476BC2@spike> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D6C12@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Will this be available on audio soon after? I won't be able to attend in person, but would really like the info - the CLE self-study credit would be great if available, too, but the info more than anything. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Wednesday, 10 March, 2010 12:28 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From LBlake at nfb.org Wed Mar 10 15:24:54 2010 From: LBlake at nfb.org (Blake, Lou Ann) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:24:54 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02263951@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> The plenary sessions and keynote addresses will be recorded during the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. The workshops will not be recorded. Links to the MP3 files will be placed on the law symposium Website http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp shortly after the symposium. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of gary melconian Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:22 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org From bjsexton at comcast.net Wed Mar 10 16:35:02 2010 From: bjsexton at comcast.net (Bruce Sexton Jr.) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 08:35:02 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message References: <6D136D62838A44A3830E18E0FEEB9255@labarre> <230729B7FE634C9AA8794272D3476BC2@spike> Message-ID: I too would like to have a recorded version. Flying from California is not cheap! -Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bjsexton%40comcast.net From fwlopez at comcast.net Wed Mar 10 17:01:27 2010 From: fwlopez at comcast.net (fwlopez at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 17:01:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02263951@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <381662538.13385371268240487164.JavaMail.root@sz0065a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Let me add my voice to those who wold like to see the "workshop" sessions webcast, podcast, recorded or others preserved and made available for member use. Time, distance and cost make it difficult for many of us to attend. This is particularly so for many of us on the West Coast. For those of us who practice in the disability law filed, workshops are the often the place where we obtain new understandings on legal theories, tactical approaches, remedies and settlement approaches. Over the past year or two I have participated in various "seminars" sponsored by the Lighthousue for the Blind in San Francisco that were made available as a live podcast, by phone and by digital recodinng. Teh technology is certainnly available and we should take full advantage of it. while there may be insufficient time to offer remote or offsite particpation for the upcoming Disability Law Symposium perhaps it can be goal for next year. Fred W. Lopez Lafayette, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lou Ann Blake" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 7:24:54 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message The plenary sessions and keynote addresses will be recorded during the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. The workshops will not be recorded. Links to the MP3 files will be placed on the law symposium Website http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp shortly after the symposium. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of gary melconian Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:22 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 10 17:31:56 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:31:56 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02263951@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <002301cac077$964dc200$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Lou Anne and everyone, Given the significance of this event every effort should be made to record all activities i.e. the plenary sessions and the break-out workshops. There are people in the organization who if asked to do so could help with this effort. JMO. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blake, Lou Ann" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message The plenary sessions and keynote addresses will be recorded during the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. The workshops will not be recorded. Links to the MP3 files will be placed on the law symposium Website http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp shortly after the symposium. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of gary melconian Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:22 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 10 18:29:40 2010 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:29:40 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message References: <6D136D62838A44A3830E18E0FEEB9255@labarre><230729B7FE634C9AA8794272D3476BC2@spike> Message-ID: <004701cac07f$a5aa2010$6601a8c0@server> I would also like to add my name to the growing list of those of us on the west coast who would appreciate being able to access the program. Best, Dennis Clark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Sexton Jr." To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message I too would like to have a recorded version. Flying from California is not cheap! -Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bjsexton%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 10 18:30:15 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 12:30:15 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message References: <381662538.13385371268240487164.JavaMail.root@sz0065a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <006301cac07f$bb81b560$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good afternoon again everyone, It wouldn't be too late to arrange to bring in experienced audio-visual gurus to assist with recording all of these workshops in addition to the plenary sessions. I'm sure there are folks in the Greater Baltimore Area that could assist with this project. Otherwise we have within our ranks several highly-experienced individuals that own professional recording equipment that could be brought to Baltimore to help make these recordings. I have all ready been asked to record several activities at the national convention this summer. We'll be flying in $1000.00 of professional recording equipment to Dallas by private plane to record these activities. The decision to Use a private plane was made after my having some of my equipment mishandled and damaged by Southwest Airlines last year. Again JMO. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Let me add my voice to those who wold like to see the "workshop" sessions webcast, podcast, recorded or others preserved and made available for member use. Time, distance and cost make it difficult for many of us to attend. This is particularly so for many of us on the West Coast. For those of us who practice in the disability law filed, workshops are the often the place where we obtain new understandings on legal theories, tactical approaches, remedies and settlement approaches. Over the past year or two I have participated in various "seminars" sponsored by the Lighthousue for the Blind in San Francisco that were made available as a live podcast, by phone and by digital recodinng. Teh technology is certainnly available and we should take full advantage of it. while there may be insufficient time to offer remote or offsite particpation for the upcoming Disability Law Symposium perhaps it can be goal for next year. Fred W. Lopez Lafayette, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lou Ann Blake" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 7:24:54 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message The plenary sessions and keynote addresses will be recorded during the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. The workshops will not be recorded. Links to the MP3 files will be placed on the law symposium Website http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp shortly after the symposium. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of gary melconian Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:22 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Mar 10 18:38:48 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:38:48 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message In-Reply-To: <381662538.13385371268240487164.JavaMail.root@sz0065a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02263951@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <381662538.13385371268240487164.JavaMail.root@sz0065a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D6C1D@EVS02.central.pima.gov> A webinar link would be most appreciated, although I know it might be impossible to arrange this close in time...I have found those to be an excellent way to attend seminar events, given both in-court schedules and as mentioned, the distance for those of us practicing in the western states. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of fwlopez at comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, 10 March, 2010 10:01 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Let me add my voice to those who wold like to see the "workshop" sessions webcast, podcast, recorded or others preserved and made available for member use. Time, distance and cost make it difficult for many of us to attend. This is particularly so for many of us on the West Coast. For those of us who practice in the disability law filed, workshops are the often the place where we obtain new understandings on legal theories, tactical approaches, remedies and settlement approaches. Over the past year or two I have participated in various "seminars" sponsored by the Lighthousue for the Blind in San Francisco that were made available as a live podcast, by phone and by digital recodinng. Teh technology is certainnly available and we should take full advantage of it. while there may be insufficient time to offer remote or offsite particpation for the upcoming Disability Law Symposium perhaps it can be goal for next year. Fred W. Lopez Lafayette, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lou Ann Blake" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 7:24:54 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message The plenary sessions and keynote addresses will be recorded during the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. The workshops will not be recorded. Links to the MP3 files will be placed on the law symposium Website http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp shortly after the symposium. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of gary melconian Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:22 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 10 18:50:11 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:50:11 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message In-Reply-To: <381662538.13385371268240487164.JavaMail.root@sz0065a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <381662538.13385371268240487164.JavaMail.root@sz0065a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <5BC68A9C648E4FC4B2243255E59C0CFA@spike> I would have to concur with this and have raised this issue previously for many events of this type. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message > Let me add my voice to those who wold like to see the "workshop" sessions > webcast, podcast, recorded or others preserved and made available for > member use. Time, distance and cost make it difficult for many of us to > attend. This is particularly so for many of us on the West Coast. For > those of us who practice in the disability law filed, workshops are the > often the place where we obtain new understandings on legal theories, > tactical approaches, remedies and settlement approaches. Over the past > year or two I have participated in various "seminars" sponsored by the > Lighthousue for the Blind in San Francisco that were made available as a > live podcast, by phone and by digital recodinng. Teh technology is > certainnly available and we should take full advantage of it. while there > may be insufficient time to offer remote or offsite particpation for the > upcoming Disability Law Symposium perhaps it can be goal for next year. > > > Fred W. Lopez > Lafayette, CA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lou Ann Blake" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 7:24:54 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted > in body of message > > The plenary sessions and keynote addresses will be recorded during the > 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. The workshops will not be > recorded. Links to the MP3 files will be placed on the law symposium > Website http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp shortly after the > symposium. > > Lou Ann Blake, J.D. > Law Symposium Coordinator > Jacobus tenBroek Library > Jernigan Institute > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > 200 East Wells Street > at Jernigan Place > Baltimore, MD 21230 > Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 > Fax: (410) 659-5129 > E-mail: lblake at nfb.org > Web site: www.nfb.org > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of gary melconian > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:22 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted > in body of message > > I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived > so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the > information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly > appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later > listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that > I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . > Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted > in body of message > > Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to > attend? > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott C. LaBarre" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in > body of message > > > NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS > > 2010 SPRING MEETING > > > > Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to > learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers > specifically? > > > > Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an > interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek > Disability > Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered > how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including > readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? > > > > If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes > place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a > discount > > on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at > the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells > St. > at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. > > > > This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: > > > > 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; > > 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; > > 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other > documents, and > > supervision of attorneys and other staff; > > 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and > > 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. > > > > Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the > tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission > is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will > be available. > > > > Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with > fellow > blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. > > > > For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, > NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by > April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. > > > > **** > > > Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 > > > > 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > > > > Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World > > > > A Cross-Disability Symposium > > > > April 15-16, 2010 > > at the > > National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute > > Baltimore, Maryland > > > > Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and > scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality > and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in > > > > * ADA/Rehabilitation Act > > * class actions & litigation issues > > * employment, > > * education, > > * medical treatment, and > > * access to technology > > > > > > KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: > > > > Tom Perez > > United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights > > > > Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board > > American Association of People with Disabilities > > > > With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium > will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking > with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad > range of disabilities. > > > > 2010 plenary session speakers will be: > > > > * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University > * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical > School > * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals > * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger > * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of > People with Disabilities > * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, > Maryland Disability Law Center > * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University > College of Law > > > > 2010 workshop facilitators will be: > > > > * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, > American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults > * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law > * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society > Employment Law Center > * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf > * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical > Programs, American University Washington College of Law > * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute > * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity > Commission > * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for > Mental Health Law > * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. > * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network > * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public > Representation > > > > Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, > Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with > Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. > > > > Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. > > > > Registration fee: $175 > > Student registration fee: $25 > > > > A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be > available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. > > > > To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship > opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit > http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp > . You may also download from > this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is > also available on the symposium Web site. > > > > For additional information, contact: > > > > Lou Ann Blake, JD > > Law Symposium Coordinator > > Jacobus tenBroek Library > > Jernigan Institute > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > 200 East Wells Street > > at Jernigan Place > > Baltimore, Maryland 21230 > > Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 > > E-mail: lblake at nfb.org > > > > > > This message has been brought to you by: > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged > > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any > attachments > > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4930 (20100309) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4930 (20100309) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > From LBlake at nfb.org Wed Mar 10 20:06:35 2010 From: LBlake at nfb.org (Blake, Lou Ann) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:06:35 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message In-Reply-To: <002301cac077$964dc200$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02297F22@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> The reason for not recording workshop sessions is not lack of equipment or labor. The workshops are intended to provide a forum for candid discussion and collaboration. Consequently, we will not be recording the workshops. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:32 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message Hello Lou Anne and everyone, Given the significance of this event every effort should be made to record all activities i.e. the plenary sessions and the break-out workshops. There are people in the organization who if asked to do so could help with this effort. JMO. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blake, Lou Ann" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message The plenary sessions and keynote addresses will be recorded during the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. The workshops will not be recorded. Links to the MP3 files will be placed on the law symposium Website http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp shortly after the symposium. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of gary melconian Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:22 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Mar 10 20:34:28 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:34:28 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02297F22@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <002301cac077$964dc200$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02297F22@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D6C20@EVS02.central.pima.gov> The webinars I have attended through ILRC (in CA, I'm in AZ) are interactive and live and the same time - we still manage some pretty lively conversation and debates. Just a thought... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Blake, Lou Ann Sent: Wednesday, 10 March, 2010 1:07 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message The reason for not recording workshop sessions is not lack of equipment or labor. The workshops are intended to provide a forum for candid discussion and collaboration. Consequently, we will not be recording the workshops. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:32 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message Hello Lou Anne and everyone, Given the significance of this event every effort should be made to record all activities i.e. the plenary sessions and the break-out workshops. There are people in the organization who if asked to do so could help with this effort. JMO. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blake, Lou Ann" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message The plenary sessions and keynote addresses will be recorded during the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. The workshops will not be recorded. Links to the MP3 files will be placed on the law symposium Website http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp shortly after the symposium. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of gary melconian Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:22 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Wed Mar 10 21:41:07 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:41:07 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message References: <002301cac077$964dc200$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02297F22@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D6C20@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <42BC1C6481B24042AABA39E9D56E2F43@labarre> Greetings, we have contemplated putting the Syposium as a live stream but have not yet done so for a number of logistical reasons. As you know, main sessions of the syposium will appear online afterwards just as they have the last couple of years. On a personal note, I think there is great value in having personal participation at these events which has to be ballenced against the great value of having such material easily available online. As for the NABL seminar itself, I am investigating how difficult it will be to obtain a quality recording of the seminar, and if we can get that done, we will offer it online. The NABL seminar is taking place in a different meeting room from the overall syposium. So, it is a matter of logisitics and equipment availability where we will be meeting. I should have an answer within the next week or so. Thanks, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kelly" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message The webinars I have attended through ILRC (in CA, I'm in AZ) are interactive and live and the same time - we still manage some pretty lively conversation and debates. Just a thought... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Blake, Lou Ann Sent: Wednesday, 10 March, 2010 1:07 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message The reason for not recording workshop sessions is not lack of equipment or labor. The workshops are intended to provide a forum for candid discussion and collaboration. Consequently, we will not be recording the workshops. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:32 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message Hello Lou Anne and everyone, Given the significance of this event every effort should be made to record all activities i.e. the plenary sessions and the break-out workshops. There are people in the organization who if asked to do so could help with this effort. JMO. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blake, Lou Ann" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message The plenary sessions and keynote addresses will be recorded during the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. The workshops will not be recorded. Links to the MP3 files will be placed on the law symposium Website http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp shortly after the symposium. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of gary melconian Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:22 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com From dandrews at visi.com Fri Mar 12 03:59:49 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 21:59:49 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Less Than A Month Remains! Message-ID: Individuals and organizations who are making significant contributions in helping to change what it means to be blind are encouraged to apply for the Dr. Jacob Bolotin Award presented by the National Federation of the Blind. Nominations and letters of support should be completed online by March 31 and winners will be notified by May 15. For consideration, nominees must live and work in the United States. The Federation will award $50,000 this year to recognize and support individuals and organizations who share and live the philosophy of the National Federation of the Blind and Dr. Bolotin. For further details, to nominate an individual or organization, or to support a nomination which has already been made, go to http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Bolotin_Award.asp __________________________ Megan Wills Technical Administrative Assistant National Federation of the Blind 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 P: 410-659-9314 x2461 F: 410-685-5653 E: mwills at nfb.org __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4934 (20100311) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From kc2992a at student.american.edu Fri Mar 12 20:00:17 2010 From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:00:17 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] law symposium Message-ID: <2fdbeb321003121200r4672270fg2255f2768135d6a8@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone! I am a college student living in DC, and plan on going to law school in the fall. I am attending the tenBroek law symposium , and i was wondering if anyone was looking for a room share for the symposium. I can't afford the hotel room on my own, and i don't have any friends living in Baltimore at this time. If you are looking to split the cost of a hotel room, or know anyone who would be willing to offer me a spot sleeping on their couch in Baltomore for a reasonable fee, please feel free to contact me at the phone number below or at kc2992a at student.american.edu Best, -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 14 07:32:02 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:32:02 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal hiring event for people with disabilities Message-ID: Federal Hiring Event for People with Disabilities U.S. Office of Personnel Management and U.S. Department of Labor April 26, 2010 http://www.usajobs.gov/DisabilityHiringEvent.asp ? The Office of Personnel Management (OPM) and the U S. Department of Labor's Office of Disability Employment Policy (ODEP) are sponsoring a historic day-long Federal Hiring Event for People with Disabilities. Representatives from many agencies will be reviewing resumes prior to the event, and inviting prospective candidates for interviews. ? HOW TO PARTICIPATE? Review the Hiring Event information, as well as the Individuals with Disabilities page (http://www.usajobs.gov/individualswithdisabilities.asp), or Veterans page (http://www.usajobs.gov/veterans.asp) on http://www.usajobs.gov.? Resumes must be submitted to the following email address: Hiringevent at opm.gov.? Documentation supporting the disability (e.g., proof of disability and job readiness certification letters) and/or veteran's status (e.g., VA letter and DD-214) can be provided with the resume, or at the time of an interview. [Note: To ensure the hiring process moves quickly and to expedite the agency's ability to make tentative offers, applicants are strongly encouraged to submit supporting documentation along with the resume.? Disabled veterans with less than a 30% rating or with non-service connected disabilities are encouraged to submit their resumes, along with proof of disability and job readiness. ? FOR MORE INFORMATION OR ASSISTANCE For assistance submitting a resume or questions regarding this Event, including the type of documentation required please forward the inquiry to the following email address: Hiringevent at opm.gov. ? WHAT TO EXPECT NEXT? Applicants will receive notification that the resume has been received. Agencies will review the resume and any supporting documentation provided. Applicants may be invited to attend the Hiring Event via email for an interview with one or more agencies and for one or more available positions. Applicants who are scheduled for interviews must bring the required documentation to the Hiring Event, if not previously provided. ? FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS http://www.usajobs.gov/DisabilityHiringEventFAQs.asp ? The following agencies will participate in this event. http://www.usajobs.gov/DisabilityHiringEvent.asp Agency for International Development Agriculture, Department of Commerce, Department of National Institute of Standards and Technology Census Bureau Commodity Futures Trading Commission Consumer Products Safety Commission Defense, Department of Army Materiel Command Defense Information Systems Agency Defense Intelligence Agency Defense Logistics Agency National Geospatial Intelligence Agency Naval Air Systems Command Naval Facilities Engineering Command Navy United States Marine Corps & USMC Wounded Warrior Program Education, Department of Environmental Protection Agency Federal Communications Commission Federal Energy Regulatory Commission General Services Administration Health and Human Services, Department of National Institute on Aging National Institutes of Health Homeland Security, Department of Domestic Nuclear Detection Office Office of Health Affairs Interior, Department of Fish and Wildlife Service Justice, Department of Labor, Department of Office of Administrative Law Judges Office of Employment and Training Administration Office of the Assistant Secretary for Administration and Management Office of Workers' Compensation Programs, Division of Energy Employees Occupational Illness Compensation. National Aeronautics and Space Administration National Security Administration National Transportation Safety Board Nuclear Regulatory Commission Office of Personnel Management Securities and Exchange Commission Smithsonian Institution Social Security Administration Transportation, Department of Federal Aviation Administration Treasury, Department of Bureau of the Public Debt Departmental Offices Internal Revenue Service Veterans Affairs, Department of Office of Inspector General [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lists at zufelt.ca Sun Mar 14 15:10:16 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 11:10:16 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of interactive / point-of-sales (POS) devices In-Reply-To: References: <4B4E09D7-ED99-4242-B839-127A5E1A6E95@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: Thank you to those who have provided me with feedback. I have written a brief blog post, followed by the list of resources I collected on this issue. Sorry, We Don't Serve the Blind: inaccessible point-of-sales devices http://zufelt.ca/article/Sorry%2C-We-Don%27t-Serve-the-Blind%3A-inaccessible-point-of-sales-devices Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-02-17, at 2:59 PM, Tim Shaw wrote: > > Here is the only resource I know of for this: > > > > http://www.captek.net/Captek/Talking_Cash_Registers.html > >> From: lists at zufelt.ca >> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:31:59 -0500 >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of interactive / point-of-sales (POS) devices >> >> Good morning, >> >> I am doing research into interactive devices, particularly point-of- >> sales / Interac / Debit (POS) devices. I am looking for resources, >> from any jurisdiction, of the following varieties to inform my report: >> >> 1. Examples of accessible POS or similar devices. >> >> 2 Any standards and guidelines for the accessibility of POS or similar >> devices. >> >> 3. Laws that mandate the full, or partial, accessibility of POS or >> similar devices. >> >> 4. Examples of successful use of laws to enforce the accessibility of >> POS devices. >> >> I will publicly post the list of resources that I collect for reuse. >> >> Thank you in advance, >> Everett >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From taiablas at gmail.com Mon Mar 15 00:58:18 2010 From: taiablas at gmail.com (Tai Blas) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:58:18 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] law symposium In-Reply-To: <2fdbeb321003121200r4672270fg2255f2768135d6a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <2fdbeb321003121200r4672270fg2255f2768135d6a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9946B4D07B7C4DDFB4894DED0B4EC247@blind.state.ia.us> I wonder if you might be able to arrange to stay in a room at the national center? You would have to call the NFB national center and check on this but it might be a possibility. Tai -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Katy Carroll Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 2:00 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] law symposium Hi everyone! I am a college student living in DC, and plan on going to law school in the fall. I am attending the tenBroek law symposium , and i was wondering if anyone was looking for a room share for the symposium. I can't afford the hotel room on my own, and i don't have any friends living in Baltimore at this time. If you are looking to split the cost of a hotel room, or know anyone who would be willing to offer me a spot sleeping on their couch in Baltomore for a reasonable fee, please feel free to contact me at the phone number below or at kc2992a at student.american.edu Best, -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4944 (20100314) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4944 (20100314) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From dfrye at nfb.org Mon Mar 15 02:51:43 2010 From: dfrye at nfb.org (Dan Frye) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:51:43 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] law symposium Message-ID: Kathryn: I'm sure accommodations can be made for one such as yourself in the sleeping facilities at the National Center for the Blind, Jernigan Institute, where this event is being held. While the accommodations aren't as plush as a hotel, they are certainly adequate for comfort and safety. Alternatively, if you've been advised that this cannot be managed for some reason with which I am not familiar, I'm sure my wife and I would be happy to have you stay at our home in our guest room. I work on the NFB's national staff, and could easily arrange for your commute and accommodations in our home, if room at the NCB is not available. Get a hold of Lou Ann Blake, the staff member managing logistics for the tenBroek Symposium, at (410) 659-9314 Extension 2221 and explain your circumstances to her. We look forward to your involvement in April. If you need to reach me, my contact details are below: With Kind Regards, Daniel B. Frye Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. ----- Original Message ----- From: Katy Carroll References: <4B4E09D7-ED99-4242-B839-127A5E1A6E95@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: <655E9C677C724BCF8A39466DEA7D6B7E@spike> You also may want to check the web site of Lainey Feingold an attorney here in California that has addressed these issues. Much of her work has been dealing with the structured negotiations entered into on behalf of ACB and other groups. its www.lflegal.com. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J. Zufelt" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Accessibility of interactive / point-of-sales(POS) devices Thank you to those who have provided me with feedback. I have written a brief blog post, followed by the list of resources I collected on this issue. Sorry, We Don't Serve the Blind: inaccessible point-of-sales devices http://zufelt.ca/article/Sorry%2C-We-Don%27t-Serve-the-Blind%3A-inaccessible-point-of-sales-devices Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-02-17, at 2:59 PM, Tim Shaw wrote: > > Here is the only resource I know of for this: > > > > http://www.captek.net/Captek/Talking_Cash_Registers.html > >> From: lists at zufelt.ca >> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:31:59 -0500 >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of interactive / point-of-sales (POS) >> devices >> >> Good morning, >> >> I am doing research into interactive devices, particularly point-of- >> sales / Interac / Debit (POS) devices. I am looking for resources, >> from any jurisdiction, of the following varieties to inform my report: >> >> 1. Examples of accessible POS or similar devices. >> >> 2 Any standards and guidelines for the accessibility of POS or similar >> devices. >> >> 3. Laws that mandate the full, or partial, accessibility of POS or >> similar devices. >> >> 4. Examples of successful use of laws to enforce the accessibility of >> POS devices. >> >> I will publicly post the list of resources that I collect for reuse. >> >> Thank you in advance, >> Everett >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Trusted email with MicrosoftÂ’s powerful SPAM protection. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Mar 15 20:13:14 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:13:14 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ED Office for Civil Rights (Denver) - additional vacancy announcements Message-ID: ________________________________ From: CMPDL's Disability Discussion Docket (3D) [mailto:CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG] On Behalf Of Phelan, William Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 5:19 AM To: CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG Subject: FW: Office for Civil Rights (Denver) - additional vacancy announcements FYI. Please note the closing date is 3 days away. William J. Phelan, IV, Esq. Special Projects and Technology Coordinator Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law American Bar Association phelanw at staff.abanet.org www.abanet.org/disability ________________________________ From: Mobley, Mary Lou [mailto:Mary.Lou.Mobley at ed.gov] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 1:44 PM To: Subject: Office for Civil Rights (Denver) - additional vacancy announcements Dear Minority and Disability Bar Representatives, We are seeking your assistance in recruiting a diverse applicant pool for two vacancy announcements we posted recently. They are for Equal Opportunity Specialists in my office, grades 7-12 (multiple vacancies). Applicants do not have to be members of the bar for these positions. The vacancy announcements close March 18th. The positions are with the Office for Civil Rights at the United States Department of Education in Region VIII. While our region covers the states of Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, and Utah, our only office is located in Denver. http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=86666045&JobTitle=Equal+Opportunity+Specialist%2c+GS-360-7%2c+9%2c+11%2c+12+(MPP)&brd=3876&vw=b&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&pg=1&where=denver&rad=0&rad_units=miles&re=0&jbf574=ED*&AVSDM=2010-03-05+00%3a03%3a00 http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=86666150&JobTitle=Equal+Opportunity+Specialist%2c+GS-360-7%2c+9%2c+11%2c+12+(DEU)&brd=3876&vw=b&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&pg=1&where=denver&rad=0&rad_units=miles&re=0&jbf574=ED*&AVSDM=2010-03-05+00%3a03%3a00 Please help us by giving these vacancy announcements the widest possible distribution. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you, Mary Lou Mobley, Regional Director Office for Civil Rights, Region VIII (Denver) U.S. Department of Education (303) 844-4480 --------- Going to respond to this message? Be sure to hit "Reply All" when doing so. [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/3Dlogo.jpg] Disability Discussion Docket (3D) ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law http://www.abanet.org/disability --------- To leave this list at any time, please send a message to listserv at mail.abanet.org. In the body of the message type "sign off cmpdl-3d." If you have any questions about 3D or the CMPDL in general, please contact William Phelan at phelanw at staff.abanet.org. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Mar 19 19:01:16 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:01:16 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: [Jobs] FW: The Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice is Recruiting (New Positions Added) -- March 2010 Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 9:04 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: The Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice is Recruiting (New Positions Added) -- March 2010 ________________________________ From: Special Programs Vacancies [mailto:CRT.SpecProgVacancies at usdoj.gov] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 12:01 PM To: Petrie, Diane E (CRT) Subject: The Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice is Recruiting (New Positions Added) -- March 2010 The Civil Rights Division (Division) would like to thank each of you for participating in our efforts to increase outreach to lawyers interested in working for the Division. By agreeing to receive our attorney job announcements, you are helping to make sure we have the best lawyers we can find. The application period for several of our positions will be closing in the next few weeks. If you have a convenient way to remind your constituents of the looming deadline, we would very much appreciate it. The Division hopes to attract a broad and diverse pool of qualified applicants, and, to that end, encourages you to forward this information to any qualified applicants, including qualified applicants with disabilities, who may be interested in working for the Division. For your convenience, all current Division job announcements are listed below. Please also remind members of your organization that all our lawyer job announcements can always be found on the Division's homepage, http://www.justice.gov/crt/recruit.php. In addition, if you know of other organizations that might want to receive our job announcements, please let them know the process is very simple. They just need to send an email to CRT.SpecProgVacancies at usdoj.gov. There are no elaborate forms to fill out - just an email indicating that the organization wishes to receive future job listings and the e-mail address for us to contact them. Please do not hesitate to let us know if you have suggestions on how we can improve our outreach efforts. Thank you. Current Civil Rights Division Job Announcements: Remarks Position Section Grade Salary Closing Date Civil Rights Analyst Voting GS-12 $74,872 - $97,333 3/25/2010 Chief Coordination and Review ES-00 $119,554 - $179,700 3/31/2010 Trial Attorney Employment Litigation GS-14/15 $105,211 - $155,500 4/1/2010 New Deputy Chief Disability Rights GS-15 $123,758 - $155,500 4/2/2010 New Assistant Employment Counsel Office of Employment Counsel GS-15 $123,758 - $155,500 4/6/2010 New Deputy Chief Coordination and Review GS-15 $123,758 - $155,500 4/9/2010 Deputy Chief Employment Litigation GS-15 $123,758 - $155,500 4/15/2010 Student Volunteer Professional Development Office volunteer n/a open until filled Student Volunteer Office of the Assistant Attorney General volunteer n/a open until filled Student Volunteer Coordination and Review volunteer n/a rolling basis Student Volunteer Various Sections volunteer n/a rolling basis Student Volunteer Educational Opportunities volunteer n/a rolling basis -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Sat Mar 20 22:30:18 2010 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 15:30:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] fed work Message-ID: <493095.15663.qm@web112417.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> This is a question for those of you who work in D.C. for the feds. I realize it's a bit off topic and I apologize to the list; however, I couldn't think of any other forum to ask these questions.  I'll begin working for the feds a week from this Monday.   First, legal research. Does your agency give you an agencywide ID and password for Westlaw and Lexis? Or do you have to sign up for either or both of these services yourself and pay for it out of your own pocket?   Next, mobility. Specifically, do the federal buildings have signs with braille denoting the room number, restrooms, etc.?   Third, documents. Is there braille on the vending machines? Braille menus in the cafeteria? Agency manuals in braille or electronic form?   Finally, transportation. If any of you use Metro Access to get back and forth from work, I would like to know what you've experienced. Specifically, how reliable are they if you want an early morning 6:00 a.m. pick up? How about picking up after work? How often do you get straight rides to work or from work to home versus shared rides? (I'm especially interested in the experiences of those of you who do a nine hour week, then four days of eight hours with the fifth day being a day off. California calls it 9-8-80; I don't know what the feds call it.)   That's all I can think of for now. Thanks.   Mike     From AZNOR99 at aol.com Sat Mar 20 23:13:04 2010 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:13:04 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] fed work Message-ID: <5eead.28e5d9f1.38d6b080@aol.com> Mike, Congratulations on your new job. Where will you be working? See below for my answers. First, legal research. Does your agency give you an agencywide ID and password for Westlaw and Lexis? Or do you have to sign up for either or both of these services yourself and pay for it out of your own pocket? Each federal agency has a subscription to either WestLaw or Lexis; some have both. You will need to request a user name and password from your agency or division librarian (or sometimes the rocurement officer can get it). I'd suggest you ask your first level supervisor how to get one. Next, mobility. Specifically, do the federal buildings have signs with braille denoting the room number, restrooms, etc.? Most federal buildings do have proper signage, however there are a few that are out of date or lacking some in some areas. However, this is very, very rare. Third, documents. Is there braille on the vending machines? Braille menus in the cafeteria? Agency manuals in braille or electronic form? Agency manuals have to be in electronic form because of Section 508 Guidelines. On occasion those manuals will be generated as PDFs, and once in a while someone will forget to OCR them. But this too is very, very rare. As for vending machines and menus, that'll depend on the specific agency's policies. For example, DHS does not have Braille on vending machines. I asked them to make a way for me to be able to purchase snacks, so they requested overlays on the machines the manufacturer could provide one, and they gave me a reader to read me the options so I could Braille out a list that was posted on the side. A matching list in large print was posted, and it became part of the guy's job who filled the machine to check to make sure no product was moved and to let me know if it was. The cafeteria menus were emailed to me, or a staff member reads them to me if they change day to day. Finally, transportation. If any of you use Metro Access to get back and forth from work, I would like to know what you've experienced. Specifically, how reliable are they if you want an early morning 6:00 a.m. pick up? How about picking up after work? How often do you get straight rides to work or from work to home versus shared rides? (I'm especially interested in the experiences of those of you who do a nine hour week, then four days of eight hours with the fifth day being a day off. California calls it 9-8-80; I don't know what the feds call it.) I don't use Metro Access so can't help you with that. But DC has perhaps the best system of public transportation in the country - I've literally never had to go anywhere that wasn't on a bus or Metro Line. The federal government will likely give you a transit subsidity to cover your public transportation costs, and trains and buses run nonstop. You're talking about AWS or Alternative Work Schedules. That's all I can think of for now. Thanks. Let me know if you have other questions. Also, consider reaching out to Herald Wilson for some mobility training and orientation to DC when you get here and Bridget Doherty for help learning the Metro. Ronza _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 13:15:24 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:15:24 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado Message-ID: <3E561A8243A84EC784E13827FB7DC238@hometwxakonvzn> Beth, I think this question would be better suited for this list. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:59 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > You have all made good points. I do have a question: how can I best > get the state agency to pay for Colorado and not give me hell about > the money? I'm seriously trying to find where it says in Section 504 > of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, but it says stuff about programs > that receive federal funding. NFB centers to my knowledge don't get > that, so I don't know how NFB centers apply. > Beth > > On 3/20/10, Elizabeth wrote: >> >> Well, with all do respect, I would not make a decision based solely upon >> hearing about one bad experience any more than I would on the cost of the >> airline ticket. Just because someone else had a bad experience does not >> necessarily mean that you will experience the same. Everyone goes to a >> training center at different stages of accepting their blindness and >> possibly their identity as simply just another person in this world who >> happens to be blind. So I think maturity can also play a role in how much >> you get out of a training center as well. >> >> And as far as learning specific skills like learning how to ride a >> subway, I >> do not think it really matters which center you choose because I think >> all >> three would prepare you to perform this skill. I know of several >> graduates >> from the Louisiana Center who ride the subway just fine. The key >> ingredient >> is confidence in thinking that you can perform a skill no matter what >> kind >> of situation you may encounter along the way. >> >> Elizabeth >> >> >> >>> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:40:28 -0400 >>> From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>> >>> Yes, I have. The thing that bothers me is that one girl didn't like >>> Louisiana as much as the other two people I've spoken to. Then, I >>> haven't spoken to anybody in Colorado student wise. But I spoke with >>> the director, so she says it's nice over there. She even gave me a >>> good reason to consider it. But I am having to decide quick because I >>> want to leave in May, and the state agency doesn't want to paqy in >>> full. Now, of course, we're not sure they're willing to pay at all. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>> > Honestly, you should probably consider lots of things way before plane >>> > fares. The three training centers are not exact copies of each other. >>> > Have >>> > you spoken with the directors or students of each center to gauge >>> > opinions? >>> > >>> > >>> > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>> > A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Beth" >>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> > >>> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:28 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>> > >>> > >>> >> Then what must I decide or what must my decision be based on? Now >>> >> that I know there's no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe, I've >>> >> got something in my favor, but what should the decision be based >>> >> upon? >>> >> Beth >>> >> >>> >> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>> >>> Beth, >>> >>> I did a quick check at dates in April, and the cheapest to Denver >>> >>> looks >>> >>> to >>> >>> be around $211 with the cheapest tickets coming from Delta. >>> >>> Midwest Airlines offers a nonstop route for $259 on various dates. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for Monroe, the cheapest dates in April offer a fare of $244 >>> >>> roundtrip, >>> >>> also from Delta. There is no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe. >>> >>> Prices for airline tickets change wildly, but there really doesn't >>> >>> seem >>> >>> to >>> >>> be a lot of difference between the two, and I wouldn't base my >>> >>> decision >>> >>> on >>> >>> which training center to visit purely on who has the cheapest >>> >>> flights. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>> >>> A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: "Beth" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:24 PM >>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hi, guys. As luck would have it, I am looking at plane fares for >>> >>>> both >>> >>>> Louisiana and Colorado so that I can get a cheaper bid on a >>> >>>> training >>> >>>> center, possibly Colorado. How much is it to fly, say, from Orlando >>> >>>> to Denver versus Orlando to Monroe, Louisiana? I'd like to know >>> >>>> also >>> >>>> what airlines you went with and so that I cancompare the prices. >>> >>>> Thanks. >>> >>>> Beth >>> >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>>> for >>> >>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>> for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >> inbox. >> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 14:28:12 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 10:28:12 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado Message-ID: <678A359433A54644BFA4581B401E88EB@hometwxakonvzn> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:59 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > You have all made good points. I do have a question: how can I best > get the state agency to pay for Colorado and not give me hell about > the money? I'm seriously trying to find where it says in Section 504 > of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, but it says stuff about programs > that receive federal funding. NFB centers to my knowledge don't get > that, so I don't know how NFB centers apply. > Beth > > On 3/20/10, Elizabeth wrote: >> >> Well, with all do respect, I would not make a decision based solely upon >> hearing about one bad experience any more than I would on the cost of the >> airline ticket. Just because someone else had a bad experience does not >> necessarily mean that you will experience the same. Everyone goes to a >> training center at different stages of accepting their blindness and >> possibly their identity as simply just another person in this world who >> happens to be blind. So I think maturity can also play a role in how much >> you get out of a training center as well. >> >> And as far as learning specific skills like learning how to ride a >> subway, I >> do not think it really matters which center you choose because I think >> all >> three would prepare you to perform this skill. I know of several >> graduates >> from the Louisiana Center who ride the subway just fine. The key >> ingredient >> is confidence in thinking that you can perform a skill no matter what >> kind >> of situation you may encounter along the way. >> >> Elizabeth >> >> >> >>> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:40:28 -0400 >>> From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>> >>> Yes, I have. The thing that bothers me is that one girl didn't like >>> Louisiana as much as the other two people I've spoken to. Then, I >>> haven't spoken to anybody in Colorado student wise. But I spoke with >>> the director, so she says it's nice over there. She even gave me a >>> good reason to consider it. But I am having to decide quick because I >>> want to leave in May, and the state agency doesn't want to paqy in >>> full. Now, of course, we're not sure they're willing to pay at all. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>> > Honestly, you should probably consider lots of things way before plane >>> > fares. The three training centers are not exact copies of each other. >>> > Have >>> > you spoken with the directors or students of each center to gauge >>> > opinions? >>> > >>> > >>> > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>> > A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Beth" >>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> > >>> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:28 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>> > >>> > >>> >> Then what must I decide or what must my decision be based on? Now >>> >> that I know there's no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe, I've >>> >> got something in my favor, but what should the decision be based >>> >> upon? >>> >> Beth >>> >> >>> >> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>> >>> Beth, >>> >>> I did a quick check at dates in April, and the cheapest to Denver >>> >>> looks >>> >>> to >>> >>> be around $211 with the cheapest tickets coming from Delta. >>> >>> Midwest Airlines offers a nonstop route for $259 on various dates. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for Monroe, the cheapest dates in April offer a fare of $244 >>> >>> roundtrip, >>> >>> also from Delta. There is no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe. >>> >>> Prices for airline tickets change wildly, but there really doesn't >>> >>> seem >>> >>> to >>> >>> be a lot of difference between the two, and I wouldn't base my >>> >>> decision >>> >>> on >>> >>> which training center to visit purely on who has the cheapest >>> >>> flights. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>> >>> A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: "Beth" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:24 PM >>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hi, guys. As luck would have it, I am looking at plane fares for >>> >>>> both >>> >>>> Louisiana and Colorado so that I can get a cheaper bid on a >>> >>>> training >>> >>>> center, possibly Colorado. How much is it to fly, say, from Orlando >>> >>>> to Denver versus Orlando to Monroe, Louisiana? I'd like to know >>> >>>> also >>> >>>> what airlines you went with and so that I cancompare the prices. >>> >>>> Thanks. >>> >>>> Beth >>> >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>>> for >>> >>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>> for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >> inbox. >> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From kc2992a at student.american.edu Sun Mar 21 20:37:11 2010 From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 16:37:11 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] advice Message-ID: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> Hi List! I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to you: Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. Not surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name and either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment or respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? I would appreciate any thoughts. -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 From k7uij at panix.com Sun Mar 21 22:07:44 2010 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 15:07:44 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] advice References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Katie: In my opinion (and it is only that), you can't have your cake and eat it, too. Either you proclaim your blindness by either (a) carrying and using a white cane or (b) being accompanied by a sighted guide, thus making it a bit less awkward to ask questions and/or ask for introductions -- or you "pass" as sighted and put up with the consequences, i.e., the awkwardness of trying to gather information on other conference participants unobtrusively. Mike Freeman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 1:37 PM Subject: [blindlaw] advice > Hi List! > > I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this > dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, > unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to > you: > > Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. > Not > surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name > and > either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate > networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane > with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment > or > respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people > who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has > anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? > > I would appreciate any thoughts. > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > American University > 631 521 3018 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From dandrews at visi.com Sun Mar 21 22:15:37 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:15:37 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.co m> References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: My answer is one you probably won't like. At one time I had some vision and felt I didn't need to carry a cane all the time, or none of the time. My vision wasn't perfect though and I sometimes had to ask for assistance, etc. People didn't understand, and I got all kinds of weird comments, reactions etc. I ultimately decided to carry a cane all the time, in part because it was a symbol of blindness, one that people understood, and one that took no explaining. I had to first accept my blindness though, my self as a blind person, and truly come to believe that I was the equal of any sighted person, I just happened to have a difference. People do look down on blind people, feel sorry for us, and lots of other things so it takes some courage and self confidence to flaunt it. Ork, the other option is to always give some kind of explanation -- I can see some but ..... I tried this and always felt like I was apologizing, or it made me feel inferior. Dave At 03:37 PM 3/21/2010, you wrote: >Hi List! > >I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this >dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, >unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to >you: > >Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. Not >surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name and >either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate >networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane >with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment or >respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people >who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has >anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Sun Mar 21 23:57:48 2010 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:57:48 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100321235748.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Hi Katy I have to agree that carrying a cane is the best solution, even if you don't use it in the manner that a totally blind person would. The presence of the cane let's people know that you are blind, and they may be more pro-active about introducing themselves to you, whereas, without the cane they may assume that you know who they are and are not interested in meeting them. I hope this is helpful. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: Katy Carroll To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Date: Sunday, Mar 21, 2010 16:47:21 Subject: [bllaw] advice > > > Hi List! > > I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this > dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, > unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to > you: > > Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. Not > surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name and > either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate > networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane > with me. However, I can't see other pbbness name tags, and can't comment or > respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people > who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has > anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? > > I would appreciate any thoughts. > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > American University > 631 521 3018 > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 21 23:48:47 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 16:48:47 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <20100321235748.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> <20100321235748.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: <0C982021-F8B5-4643-89F8-F0DC351F5D8C@sbcglobal.net> Carry a cane to signify that you desire a handicap, rather than as a functional tool? Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 22 00:42:48 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:42:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado In-Reply-To: <678A359433A54644BFA4581B401E88EB@hometwxakonvzn> References: <678A359433A54644BFA4581B401E88EB@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <39874DDA77694C9FBAA82359BABBCBE9@StevePC> I have posted on this subject in the past and caught some real junk from those belonging to the NFB. I am not a FNFB basher, as a matter of fact, I agree with a great deal of their philosophies. I'll say this to you: You should get as much out of the center in your area that you can while attempting to get funding for your trip to the Colorado program. If it doesn't work out then ask for some assistance to get to Colorado. The The Budgets' of the various state Rehabilitation services are really in bad shape. There a lot of consumers who are attempting to be served and have educational and vocational needs. Someone in the NFB told me that a rehabilitation agency should have to pay for a gifted student to attend Harvard. That is absolutely absurd. There is only so much money to go around during these difficult times. Here is another point for you to consider: In Kentucky: a client has been fighting with the Kentucky Office for the Blind for well over two years in order to get a trip to one of the NFB Centers. This person has wasted over two years of his life fighting the agency. He did not attend the McDowell Center while fighting this out in various administrative processes and in court. This person could have been working his rehab plan while trying to get a trip to an NFB Center. This consumer chose not to follow that path. I think he made a huge mistake. He should have been attending the McDowell Center while fighting his battles with the Kentucky Office for the Blind. He will not get back those two or three years of his life. I don't know if the case has been resolved as of this posting. Steve Deeley ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:28 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:59 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > > >> You have all made good points. I do have a question: how can I best >> get the state agency to pay for Colorado and not give me hell about >> the money? I'm seriously trying to find where it says in Section 504 >> of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, but it says stuff about programs >> that receive federal funding. NFB centers to my knowledge don't get >> that, so I don't know how NFB centers apply. >> Beth >> >> On 3/20/10, Elizabeth wrote: >>> >>> Well, with all do respect, I would not make a decision based solely upon >>> hearing about one bad experience any more than I would on the cost of >>> the >>> airline ticket. Just because someone else had a bad experience does not >>> necessarily mean that you will experience the same. Everyone goes to a >>> training center at different stages of accepting their blindness and >>> possibly their identity as simply just another person in this world who >>> happens to be blind. So I think maturity can also play a role in how >>> much >>> you get out of a training center as well. >>> >>> And as far as learning specific skills like learning how to ride a >>> subway, I >>> do not think it really matters which center you choose because I think >>> all >>> three would prepare you to perform this skill. I know of several >>> graduates >>> from the Louisiana Center who ride the subway just fine. The key >>> ingredient >>> is confidence in thinking that you can perform a skill no matter what >>> kind >>> of situation you may encounter along the way. >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> >>> >>> >>>> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:40:28 -0400 >>>> From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>> >>>> Yes, I have. The thing that bothers me is that one girl didn't like >>>> Louisiana as much as the other two people I've spoken to. Then, I >>>> haven't spoken to anybody in Colorado student wise. But I spoke with >>>> the director, so she says it's nice over there. She even gave me a >>>> good reason to consider it. But I am having to decide quick because I >>>> want to leave in May, and the state agency doesn't want to paqy in >>>> full. Now, of course, we're not sure they're willing to pay at all. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>> > Honestly, you should probably consider lots of things way before >>>> > plane >>>> > fares. The three training centers are not exact copies of each other. >>>> > Have >>>> > you spoken with the directors or students of each center to gauge >>>> > opinions? >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>> > A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: "Beth" >>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> > >>>> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:28 PM >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> Then what must I decide or what must my decision be based on? Now >>>> >> that I know there's no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe, I've >>>> >> got something in my favor, but what should the decision be based >>>> >> upon? >>>> >> Beth >>>> >> >>>> >> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>> >>> Beth, >>>> >>> I did a quick check at dates in April, and the cheapest to Denver >>>> >>> looks >>>> >>> to >>>> >>> be around $211 with the cheapest tickets coming from Delta. >>>> >>> Midwest Airlines offers a nonstop route for $259 on various dates. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> As for Monroe, the cheapest dates in April offer a fare of $244 >>>> >>> roundtrip, >>>> >>> also from Delta. There is no nonstop service from Orlando to >>>> >>> Monroe. >>>> >>> Prices for airline tickets change wildly, but there really doesn't >>>> >>> seem >>>> >>> to >>>> >>> be a lot of difference between the two, and I wouldn't base my >>>> >>> decision >>>> >>> on >>>> >>> which training center to visit purely on who has the cheapest >>>> >>> flights. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>> >>> A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>> From: "Beth" >>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" >>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:24 PM >>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> Hi, guys. As luck would have it, I am looking at plane fares for >>>> >>>> both >>>> >>>> Louisiana and Colorado so that I can get a cheaper bid on a >>>> >>>> training >>>> >>>> center, possibly Colorado. How much is it to fly, say, from >>>> >>>> Orlando >>>> >>>> to Denver versus Orlando to Monroe, Louisiana? I'd like to know >>>> >>>> also >>>> >>>> what airlines you went with and so that I cancompare the prices. >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>>> for >>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>> for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >> for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >>> inbox. >>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2759 - Release Date: 03/20/10 07:33:00 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 22 06:43:25 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 23:43:25 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <20100321235748.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> <20100321235748.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: <34567F3A3AC7428AA39E1CA46C8E8E8F@spike> I would definitely agree. While I can see enough to get around I can't see to distinguish people's features or read. Carrying the cane is not only a protection for myself but for others as well in that let's them know that there are limitations to my vision such as no peripheral vision or recognition of people. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "ray wayne" To: Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > Hi Katy > I have to agree that carrying a cane is the best solution, even if you > don't use it in the manner that a totally blind person would. The presence > of the cane let's people know that you are blind, and they may be more > pro-active about introducing themselves to you, whereas, without the cane > they may assume that you know who they are and are not interested in > meeting them. > I hope this is helpful. > Ray > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Katy Carroll > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Date: Sunday, Mar 21, 2010 16:47:21 > Subject: [bllaw] advice > >> >> >> Hi List! >> >> I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this >> dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, >> unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to >> you: >> >> Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. >> Not >> surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name >> and >> either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate >> networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane >> with me. However, I can't see other pbbness name tags, and can't comment >> or >> respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people >> who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has >> anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? >> >> I would appreciate any thoughts. >> >> -- >> Kathryn CARROLL >> American University >> 631 521 3018 >> _______________________________________________ >> bllaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> bllaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 06:49:31 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 01:49:31 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <34567F3A3AC7428AA39E1CA46C8E8E8F@spike> References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> <20100321235748.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> <34567F3A3AC7428AA39E1CA46C8E8E8F@spike> Message-ID: <022201cac98b$d45de1c0$7d19a540$@com> I agree with all the suggestions. Whip that cane out and as stated, people will tend to be ready to share the info you need without you seeming any bit slow. Good luck as you progress in your career. Will -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:43 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice I would definitely agree. While I can see enough to get around I can't see to distinguish people's features or read. Carrying the cane is not only a protection for myself but for others as well in that let's them know that there are limitations to my vision such as no peripheral vision or recognition of people. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "ray wayne" To: Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > Hi Katy > I have to agree that carrying a cane is the best solution, even if you > don't use it in the manner that a totally blind person would. The presence > of the cane let's people know that you are blind, and they may be more > pro-active about introducing themselves to you, whereas, without the cane > they may assume that you know who they are and are not interested in > meeting them. > I hope this is helpful. > Ray > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Katy Carroll > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Date: Sunday, Mar 21, 2010 16:47:21 > Subject: [bllaw] advice > >> >> >> Hi List! >> >> I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this >> dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, >> unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to >> you: >> >> Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. >> Not >> surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name >> and >> either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate >> networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane >> with me. However, I can't see other pbbness name tags, and can't comment >> or >> respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people >> who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has >> anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? >> >> I would appreciate any thoughts. >> >> -- >> Kathryn CARROLL >> American University >> 631 521 3018 >> _______________________________________________ >> bllaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> bllaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.c om > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 12:14:21 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 08:14:21 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado In-Reply-To: <39874DDA77694C9FBAA82359BABBCBE9@StevePC> References: <678A359433A54644BFA4581B401E88EB@hometwxakonvzn> <39874DDA77694C9FBAA82359BABBCBE9@StevePC> Message-ID: <4383d01d1003220514w6a53bac7w8c5527f0363abae2@mail.gmail.com> The thing is that the Daytona center in Florida is not comprable. I've heard more than one horror story about it, and anybody in Florida who's on this list can attest to that. They don't use the cane as the NFB suggests. Beth On 3/21/10, Steve P. Deeley wrote: > I have posted on this subject in the past and caught some real junk from > those belonging to the NFB. I am not a FNFB basher, as a matter of fact, I > agree with a great deal of their philosophies. I'll say this to you: > You should get as much out of the center in your area that you can while > attempting to get funding for your trip to the Colorado program. If it > doesn't work out then ask for some assistance to get to Colorado. The The > Budgets' of the various state Rehabilitation services are really in bad > shape. There a lot of consumers who are attempting to be served and have > educational and vocational needs. Someone in the NFB told me that a > rehabilitation agency should have to pay for a gifted student to attend > Harvard. That is absolutely absurd. There is only so much money to go > around during these difficult times. > Here is another point for you to consider: In Kentucky: a client has been > fighting with the Kentucky Office for the Blind for well over two years in > order to get a trip to one of the NFB Centers. This person has wasted over > two years of his life fighting the agency. He did not attend the McDowell > Center while fighting this out in various administrative processes and in > court. This person could have been working his rehab plan while trying to > get a trip to an NFB Center. This consumer chose not to follow that path. > I think he made a huge mistake. He should have been attending the McDowell > Center while fighting his battles with the Kentucky Office for the Blind. > He will not get back those two or three years of his life. I don't know if > the case has been resolved as of this posting. > > Steve Deeley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:28 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:59 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >> >> >>> You have all made good points. I do have a question: how can I best >>> get the state agency to pay for Colorado and not give me hell about >>> the money? I'm seriously trying to find where it says in Section 504 >>> of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, but it says stuff about programs >>> that receive federal funding. NFB centers to my knowledge don't get >>> that, so I don't know how NFB centers apply. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 3/20/10, Elizabeth wrote: >>>> >>>> Well, with all do respect, I would not make a decision based solely upon >>>> hearing about one bad experience any more than I would on the cost of >>>> the >>>> airline ticket. Just because someone else had a bad experience does not >>>> necessarily mean that you will experience the same. Everyone goes to a >>>> training center at different stages of accepting their blindness and >>>> possibly their identity as simply just another person in this world who >>>> happens to be blind. So I think maturity can also play a role in how >>>> much >>>> you get out of a training center as well. >>>> >>>> And as far as learning specific skills like learning how to ride a >>>> subway, I >>>> do not think it really matters which center you choose because I think >>>> all >>>> three would prepare you to perform this skill. I know of several >>>> graduates >>>> from the Louisiana Center who ride the subway just fine. The key >>>> ingredient >>>> is confidence in thinking that you can perform a skill no matter what >>>> kind >>>> of situation you may encounter along the way. >>>> >>>> Elizabeth >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:40:28 -0400 >>>>> From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>> >>>>> Yes, I have. The thing that bothers me is that one girl didn't like >>>>> Louisiana as much as the other two people I've spoken to. Then, I >>>>> haven't spoken to anybody in Colorado student wise. But I spoke with >>>>> the director, so she says it's nice over there. She even gave me a >>>>> good reason to consider it. But I am having to decide quick because I >>>>> want to leave in May, and the state agency doesn't want to paqy in >>>>> full. Now, of course, we're not sure they're willing to pay at all. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>> > Honestly, you should probably consider lots of things way before >>>>> > plane >>>>> > fares. The three training centers are not exact copies of each other. >>>>> > Have >>>>> > you spoken with the directors or students of each center to gauge >>>>> > opinions? >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>> > A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> > From: "Beth" >>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> > >>>>> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:28 PM >>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >> Then what must I decide or what must my decision be based on? Now >>>>> >> that I know there's no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe, I've >>>>> >> got something in my favor, but what should the decision be based >>>>> >> upon? >>>>> >> Beth >>>>> >> >>>>> >> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>> >>> Beth, >>>>> >>> I did a quick check at dates in April, and the cheapest to Denver >>>>> >>> looks >>>>> >>> to >>>>> >>> be around $211 with the cheapest tickets coming from Delta. >>>>> >>> Midwest Airlines offers a nonstop route for $259 on various dates. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> As for Monroe, the cheapest dates in April offer a fare of $244 >>>>> >>> roundtrip, >>>>> >>> also from Delta. There is no nonstop service from Orlando to >>>>> >>> Monroe. >>>>> >>> Prices for airline tickets change wildly, but there really doesn't >>>>> >>> seem >>>>> >>> to >>>>> >>> be a lot of difference between the two, and I wouldn't base my >>>>> >>> decision >>>>> >>> on >>>>> >>> which training center to visit purely on who has the cheapest >>>>> >>> flights. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>> >>> A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>> From: "Beth" >>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>> ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" >>>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:24 PM >>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> Hi, guys. As luck would have it, I am looking at plane fares for >>>>> >>>> both >>>>> >>>> Louisiana and Colorado so that I can get a cheaper bid on a >>>>> >>>> training >>>>> >>>> center, possibly Colorado. How much is it to fly, say, from >>>>> >>>> Orlando >>>>> >>>> to Denver versus Orlando to Monroe, Louisiana? I'd like to know >>>>> >>>> also >>>>> >>>> what airlines you went with and so that I cancompare the prices. >>>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>> Beth >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >>>> for >>>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >>> for >>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >> for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >>>> inbox. >>>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2759 - Release Date: 03/20/10 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 14:19:23 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:19:23 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado References: <678A359433A54644BFA4581B401E88EB@hometwxakonvzn><39874DDA77694C9FBAA82359BABBCBE9@StevePC> <4383d01d1003220514w6a53bac7w8c5527f0363abae2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2D888D2D79BA4E319737AB4194DB2B83@hometwxakonvzn> She is correct, I went to the same center she is refuring to, and they told me I wasn't college materal, and my best bet was flipping hamburgers. Now, If we can get back to her question, hopefuly, there is a lawyer on here who can answer her question as far as the rehabilitation act of 1973 is concerned. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > The thing is that the Daytona center in Florida is not comprable. > I've heard more than one horror story about it, and anybody in Florida > who's on this list can attest to that. They don't use the cane as the > NFB suggests. > Beth > > On 3/21/10, Steve P. Deeley wrote: >> I have posted on this subject in the past and caught some real junk from >> those belonging to the NFB. I am not a FNFB basher, as a matter of fact, >> I >> agree with a great deal of their philosophies. I'll say this to you: >> You should get as much out of the center in your area that you can while >> attempting to get funding for your trip to the Colorado program. If it >> doesn't work out then ask for some assistance to get to Colorado. The >> The >> Budgets' of the various state Rehabilitation services are really in bad >> shape. There a lot of consumers who are attempting to be served and have >> educational and vocational needs. Someone in the NFB told me that a >> rehabilitation agency should have to pay for a gifted student to attend >> Harvard. That is absolutely absurd. There is only so much money to go >> around during these difficult times. >> Here is another point for you to consider: In Kentucky: a client has >> been >> fighting with the Kentucky Office for the Blind for well over two years >> in >> order to get a trip to one of the NFB Centers. This person has wasted >> over >> two years of his life fighting the agency. He did not attend the >> McDowell >> Center while fighting this out in various administrative processes and in >> court. This person could have been working his rehab plan while trying >> to >> get a trip to an NFB Center. This consumer chose not to follow that >> path. >> I think he made a huge mistake. He should have been attending the >> McDowell >> Center while fighting his battles with the Kentucky Office for the Blind. >> He will not get back those two or three years of his life. I don't know >> if >> the case has been resolved as of this posting. >> >> Steve Deeley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:28 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >> >> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:59 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>> >>> >>>> You have all made good points. I do have a question: how can I best >>>> get the state agency to pay for Colorado and not give me hell about >>>> the money? I'm seriously trying to find where it says in Section 504 >>>> of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, but it says stuff about programs >>>> that receive federal funding. NFB centers to my knowledge don't get >>>> that, so I don't know how NFB centers apply. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 3/20/10, Elizabeth wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Well, with all do respect, I would not make a decision based solely >>>>> upon >>>>> hearing about one bad experience any more than I would on the cost of >>>>> the >>>>> airline ticket. Just because someone else had a bad experience does >>>>> not >>>>> necessarily mean that you will experience the same. Everyone goes to a >>>>> training center at different stages of accepting their blindness and >>>>> possibly their identity as simply just another person in this world >>>>> who >>>>> happens to be blind. So I think maturity can also play a role in how >>>>> much >>>>> you get out of a training center as well. >>>>> >>>>> And as far as learning specific skills like learning how to ride a >>>>> subway, I >>>>> do not think it really matters which center you choose because I think >>>>> all >>>>> three would prepare you to perform this skill. I know of several >>>>> graduates >>>>> from the Louisiana Center who ride the subway just fine. The key >>>>> ingredient >>>>> is confidence in thinking that you can perform a skill no matter what >>>>> kind >>>>> of situation you may encounter along the way. >>>>> >>>>> Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:40:28 -0400 >>>>>> From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, I have. The thing that bothers me is that one girl didn't like >>>>>> Louisiana as much as the other two people I've spoken to. Then, I >>>>>> haven't spoken to anybody in Colorado student wise. But I spoke with >>>>>> the director, so she says it's nice over there. She even gave me a >>>>>> good reason to consider it. But I am having to decide quick because I >>>>>> want to leave in May, and the state agency doesn't want to paqy in >>>>>> full. Now, of course, we're not sure they're willing to pay at all. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>> > Honestly, you should probably consider lots of things way before >>>>>> > plane >>>>>> > fares. The three training centers are not exact copies of each >>>>>> > other. >>>>>> > Have >>>>>> > you spoken with the directors or students of each center to gauge >>>>>> > opinions? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>> > A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> > From: "Beth" >>>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:28 PM >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> Then what must I decide or what must my decision be based on? Now >>>>>> >> that I know there's no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe, >>>>>> >> I've >>>>>> >> got something in my favor, but what should the decision be based >>>>>> >> upon? >>>>>> >> Beth >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>> >>> Beth, >>>>>> >>> I did a quick check at dates in April, and the cheapest to Denver >>>>>> >>> looks >>>>>> >>> to >>>>>> >>> be around $211 with the cheapest tickets coming from Delta. >>>>>> >>> Midwest Airlines offers a nonstop route for $259 on various >>>>>> >>> dates. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> As for Monroe, the cheapest dates in April offer a fare of $244 >>>>>> >>> roundtrip, >>>>>> >>> also from Delta. There is no nonstop service from Orlando to >>>>>> >>> Monroe. >>>>>> >>> Prices for airline tickets change wildly, but there really >>>>>> >>> doesn't >>>>>> >>> seem >>>>>> >>> to >>>>>> >>> be a lot of difference between the two, and I wouldn't base my >>>>>> >>> decision >>>>>> >>> on >>>>>> >>> which training center to visit purely on who has the cheapest >>>>>> >>> flights. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>> >>> A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>> ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:24 PM >>>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>> Hi, guys. As luck would have it, I am looking at plane fares for >>>>>> >>>> both >>>>>> >>>> Louisiana and Colorado so that I can get a cheaper bid on a >>>>>> >>>> training >>>>>> >>>> center, possibly Colorado. How much is it to fly, say, from >>>>>> >>>> Orlando >>>>>> >>>> to Denver versus Orlando to Monroe, Louisiana? I'd like to know >>>>>> >>>> also >>>>>> >>>> what airlines you went with and so that I cancompare the prices. >>>>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>>>> >>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> >>>> info >>>>>> >>>> for >>>>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> >>> for >>>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> >> for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> > for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >>>>> inbox. >>>>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2759 - Release Date: 03/20/10 >> 07:33:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Mon Mar 22 14:43:05 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:43:05 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D6C84@EVS02.central.pima.gov> I have run into similar issues, and have started carrying the cane more often as a result also - I have a fair amount of partial vision in my left eye, which allows me to navigate around the large objects, but see no detail or faces (until I'm within 6 inches - not appropriate for folks one doesn't know, of course). At any rate, I can't say that it is a perfect solution, but it does at least get some people aware of the situation. For those that still don't "get it", I am afraid that there is no good solution. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Sunday, 21 March, 2010 3:16 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice My answer is one you probably won't like. At one time I had some vision and felt I didn't need to carry a cane all the time, or none of the time. My vision wasn't perfect though and I sometimes had to ask for assistance, etc. People didn't understand, and I got all kinds of weird comments, reactions etc. I ultimately decided to carry a cane all the time, in part because it was a symbol of blindness, one that people understood, and one that took no explaining. I had to first accept my blindness though, my self as a blind person, and truly come to believe that I was the equal of any sighted person, I just happened to have a difference. People do look down on blind people, feel sorry for us, and lots of other things so it takes some courage and self confidence to flaunt it. Ork, the other option is to always give some kind of explanation -- I can see some but ..... I tried this and always felt like I was apologizing, or it made me feel inferior. Dave At 03:37 PM 3/21/2010, you wrote: >Hi List! > >I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this >dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, >unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to >you: > >Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. Not >surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name and >either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate >networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane >with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment or >respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people >who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has >anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 22 16:44:26 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:44:26 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado In-Reply-To: <2D888D2D79BA4E319737AB4194DB2B83@hometwxakonvzn> References: <678A359433A54644BFA4581B401E88EB@hometwxakonvzn> <39874DDA77694C9FBAA82359BABBCBE9@StevePC> <4383d01d1003220514w6a53bac7w8c5527f0363abae2@mail.gmail.com> <2D888D2D79BA4E319737AB4194DB2B83@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <530462F9BFF34F7C968C90C2EF7EB25D@StevePC> How do you propose to pay for this stuff? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > She is correct, I went to the same center she is refuring to, and they > told > me I wasn't college materal, and my best bet was flipping hamburgers. Now, > If we can get back to her question, hopefuly, there is a lawyer on here > who > can answer her question as far as the rehabilitation act of 1973 is > concerned. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:14 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and > Colorado > > >> The thing is that the Daytona center in Florida is not comprable. >> I've heard more than one horror story about it, and anybody in Florida >> who's on this list can attest to that. They don't use the cane as the >> NFB suggests. >> Beth >> >> On 3/21/10, Steve P. Deeley wrote: >>> I have posted on this subject in the past and caught some real junk from >>> those belonging to the NFB. I am not a FNFB basher, as a matter of >>> fact, >>> I >>> agree with a great deal of their philosophies. I'll say this to you: >>> You should get as much out of the center in your area that you can while >>> attempting to get funding for your trip to the Colorado program. If it >>> doesn't work out then ask for some assistance to get to Colorado. The >>> The >>> Budgets' of the various state Rehabilitation services are really in bad >>> shape. There a lot of consumers who are attempting to be served and >>> have >>> educational and vocational needs. Someone in the NFB told me that a >>> rehabilitation agency should have to pay for a gifted student to attend >>> Harvard. That is absolutely absurd. There is only so much money to go >>> around during these difficult times. >>> Here is another point for you to consider: In Kentucky: a client has >>> been >>> fighting with the Kentucky Office for the Blind for well over two years >>> in >>> order to get a trip to one of the NFB Centers. This person has wasted >>> over >>> two years of his life fighting the agency. He did not attend the >>> McDowell >>> Center while fighting this out in various administrative processes and >>> in >>> court. This person could have been working his rehab plan while trying >>> to >>> get a trip to an NFB Center. This consumer chose not to follow that >>> path. >>> I think he made a huge mistake. He should have been attending the >>> McDowell >>> Center while fighting his battles with the Kentucky Office for the >>> Blind. >>> He will not get back those two or three years of his life. I don't know >>> if >>> the case has been resolved as of this posting. >>> >>> Steve Deeley >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:28 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>> >>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:59 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>> >>>> >>>>> You have all made good points. I do have a question: how can I best >>>>> get the state agency to pay for Colorado and not give me hell about >>>>> the money? I'm seriously trying to find where it says in Section 504 >>>>> of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, but it says stuff about programs >>>>> that receive federal funding. NFB centers to my knowledge don't get >>>>> that, so I don't know how NFB centers apply. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 3/20/10, Elizabeth wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, with all do respect, I would not make a decision based solely >>>>>> upon >>>>>> hearing about one bad experience any more than I would on the cost of >>>>>> the >>>>>> airline ticket. Just because someone else had a bad experience does >>>>>> not >>>>>> necessarily mean that you will experience the same. Everyone goes to >>>>>> a >>>>>> training center at different stages of accepting their blindness and >>>>>> possibly their identity as simply just another person in this world >>>>>> who >>>>>> happens to be blind. So I think maturity can also play a role in how >>>>>> much >>>>>> you get out of a training center as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> And as far as learning specific skills like learning how to ride a >>>>>> subway, I >>>>>> do not think it really matters which center you choose because I >>>>>> think >>>>>> all >>>>>> three would prepare you to perform this skill. I know of several >>>>>> graduates >>>>>> from the Louisiana Center who ride the subway just fine. The key >>>>>> ingredient >>>>>> is confidence in thinking that you can perform a skill no matter what >>>>>> kind >>>>>> of situation you may encounter along the way. >>>>>> >>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:40:28 -0400 >>>>>>> From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, I have. The thing that bothers me is that one girl didn't like >>>>>>> Louisiana as much as the other two people I've spoken to. Then, I >>>>>>> haven't spoken to anybody in Colorado student wise. But I spoke with >>>>>>> the director, so she says it's nice over there. She even gave me a >>>>>>> good reason to consider it. But I am having to decide quick because >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> want to leave in May, and the state agency doesn't want to paqy in >>>>>>> full. Now, of course, we're not sure they're willing to pay at all. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>>> > Honestly, you should probably consider lots of things way before >>>>>>> > plane >>>>>>> > fares. The three training centers are not exact copies of each >>>>>>> > other. >>>>>>> > Have >>>>>>> > you spoken with the directors or students of each center to gauge >>>>>>> > opinions? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>>> > A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> > From: "Beth" >>>>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:28 PM >>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >> Then what must I decide or what must my decision be based on? Now >>>>>>> >> that I know there's no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe, >>>>>>> >> I've >>>>>>> >> got something in my favor, but what should the decision be based >>>>>>> >> upon? >>>>>>> >> Beth >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>>> >>> Beth, >>>>>>> >>> I did a quick check at dates in April, and the cheapest to >>>>>>> >>> Denver >>>>>>> >>> looks >>>>>>> >>> to >>>>>>> >>> be around $211 with the cheapest tickets coming from Delta. >>>>>>> >>> Midwest Airlines offers a nonstop route for $259 on various >>>>>>> >>> dates. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> As for Monroe, the cheapest dates in April offer a fare of $244 >>>>>>> >>> roundtrip, >>>>>>> >>> also from Delta. There is no nonstop service from Orlando to >>>>>>> >>> Monroe. >>>>>>> >>> Prices for airline tickets change wildly, but there really >>>>>>> >>> doesn't >>>>>>> >>> seem >>>>>>> >>> to >>>>>>> >>> be a lot of difference between the two, and I wouldn't base my >>>>>>> >>> decision >>>>>>> >>> on >>>>>>> >>> which training center to visit purely on who has the cheapest >>>>>>> >>> flights. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>>> >>> A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> >>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>> ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:24 PM >>>>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>> Hi, guys. As luck would have it, I am looking at plane fares >>>>>>> >>>> for >>>>>>> >>>> both >>>>>>> >>>> Louisiana and Colorado so that I can get a cheaper bid on a >>>>>>> >>>> training >>>>>>> >>>> center, possibly Colorado. How much is it to fly, say, from >>>>>>> >>>> Orlando >>>>>>> >>>> to Denver versus Orlando to Monroe, Louisiana? I'd like to know >>>>>>> >>>> also >>>>>>> >>>> what airlines you went with and so that I cancompare the >>>>>>> >>>> prices. >>>>>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>>>>> >>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> >>>> info >>>>>>> >>>> for >>>>>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> >>> info >>>>>>> >>> for >>>>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> >> for >>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> > for >>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >>>>>> inbox. >>>>>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2759 - Release Date: 03/20/10 >>> 07:33:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2763 - Release Date: 03/22/10 07:33:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 22 16:46:05 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:46:05 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado In-Reply-To: <4383d01d1003220514w6a53bac7w8c5527f0363abae2@mail.gmail.com> References: <678A359433A54644BFA4581B401E88EB@hometwxakonvzn> <39874DDA77694C9FBAA82359BABBCBE9@StevePC> <4383d01d1003220514w6a53bac7w8c5527f0363abae2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <761360369D554ACCA1F148F5E3A05B10@StevePC> Again, I am talking how will this be paid for??? I suggest that NFB foot the bills for those who want to attend NFB centers. Steeve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > The thing is that the Daytona center in Florida is not comprable. > I've heard more than one horror story about it, and anybody in Florida > who's on this list can attest to that. They don't use the cane as the > NFB suggests. > Beth > > On 3/21/10, Steve P. Deeley wrote: >> I have posted on this subject in the past and caught some real junk from >> those belonging to the NFB. I am not a FNFB basher, as a matter of fact, >> I >> agree with a great deal of their philosophies. I'll say this to you: >> You should get as much out of the center in your area that you can while >> attempting to get funding for your trip to the Colorado program. If it >> doesn't work out then ask for some assistance to get to Colorado. The >> The >> Budgets' of the various state Rehabilitation services are really in bad >> shape. There a lot of consumers who are attempting to be served and have >> educational and vocational needs. Someone in the NFB told me that a >> rehabilitation agency should have to pay for a gifted student to attend >> Harvard. That is absolutely absurd. There is only so much money to go >> around during these difficult times. >> Here is another point for you to consider: In Kentucky: a client has >> been >> fighting with the Kentucky Office for the Blind for well over two years >> in >> order to get a trip to one of the NFB Centers. This person has wasted >> over >> two years of his life fighting the agency. He did not attend the >> McDowell >> Center while fighting this out in various administrative processes and in >> court. This person could have been working his rehab plan while trying >> to >> get a trip to an NFB Center. This consumer chose not to follow that >> path. >> I think he made a huge mistake. He should have been attending the >> McDowell >> Center while fighting his battles with the Kentucky Office for the Blind. >> He will not get back those two or three years of his life. I don't know >> if >> the case has been resolved as of this posting. >> >> Steve Deeley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:28 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >> >> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:59 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>> >>> >>>> You have all made good points. I do have a question: how can I best >>>> get the state agency to pay for Colorado and not give me hell about >>>> the money? I'm seriously trying to find where it says in Section 504 >>>> of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, but it says stuff about programs >>>> that receive federal funding. NFB centers to my knowledge don't get >>>> that, so I don't know how NFB centers apply. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 3/20/10, Elizabeth wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Well, with all do respect, I would not make a decision based solely >>>>> upon >>>>> hearing about one bad experience any more than I would on the cost of >>>>> the >>>>> airline ticket. Just because someone else had a bad experience does >>>>> not >>>>> necessarily mean that you will experience the same. Everyone goes to a >>>>> training center at different stages of accepting their blindness and >>>>> possibly their identity as simply just another person in this world >>>>> who >>>>> happens to be blind. So I think maturity can also play a role in how >>>>> much >>>>> you get out of a training center as well. >>>>> >>>>> And as far as learning specific skills like learning how to ride a >>>>> subway, I >>>>> do not think it really matters which center you choose because I think >>>>> all >>>>> three would prepare you to perform this skill. I know of several >>>>> graduates >>>>> from the Louisiana Center who ride the subway just fine. The key >>>>> ingredient >>>>> is confidence in thinking that you can perform a skill no matter what >>>>> kind >>>>> of situation you may encounter along the way. >>>>> >>>>> Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:40:28 -0400 >>>>>> From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, I have. The thing that bothers me is that one girl didn't like >>>>>> Louisiana as much as the other two people I've spoken to. Then, I >>>>>> haven't spoken to anybody in Colorado student wise. But I spoke with >>>>>> the director, so she says it's nice over there. She even gave me a >>>>>> good reason to consider it. But I am having to decide quick because I >>>>>> want to leave in May, and the state agency doesn't want to paqy in >>>>>> full. Now, of course, we're not sure they're willing to pay at all. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>> > Honestly, you should probably consider lots of things way before >>>>>> > plane >>>>>> > fares. The three training centers are not exact copies of each >>>>>> > other. >>>>>> > Have >>>>>> > you spoken with the directors or students of each center to gauge >>>>>> > opinions? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>> > A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> > From: "Beth" >>>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:28 PM >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> Then what must I decide or what must my decision be based on? Now >>>>>> >> that I know there's no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe, >>>>>> >> I've >>>>>> >> got something in my favor, but what should the decision be based >>>>>> >> upon? >>>>>> >> Beth >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>> >>> Beth, >>>>>> >>> I did a quick check at dates in April, and the cheapest to Denver >>>>>> >>> looks >>>>>> >>> to >>>>>> >>> be around $211 with the cheapest tickets coming from Delta. >>>>>> >>> Midwest Airlines offers a nonstop route for $259 on various >>>>>> >>> dates. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> As for Monroe, the cheapest dates in April offer a fare of $244 >>>>>> >>> roundtrip, >>>>>> >>> also from Delta. There is no nonstop service from Orlando to >>>>>> >>> Monroe. >>>>>> >>> Prices for airline tickets change wildly, but there really >>>>>> >>> doesn't >>>>>> >>> seem >>>>>> >>> to >>>>>> >>> be a lot of difference between the two, and I wouldn't base my >>>>>> >>> decision >>>>>> >>> on >>>>>> >>> which training center to visit purely on who has the cheapest >>>>>> >>> flights. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>> >>> A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>> ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:24 PM >>>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>> Hi, guys. As luck would have it, I am looking at plane fares for >>>>>> >>>> both >>>>>> >>>> Louisiana and Colorado so that I can get a cheaper bid on a >>>>>> >>>> training >>>>>> >>>> center, possibly Colorado. How much is it to fly, say, from >>>>>> >>>> Orlando >>>>>> >>>> to Denver versus Orlando to Monroe, Louisiana? I'd like to know >>>>>> >>>> also >>>>>> >>>> what airlines you went with and so that I cancompare the prices. >>>>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>>>> >>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> >>>> info >>>>>> >>>> for >>>>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> >>> for >>>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> >> for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> > for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >>>>> inbox. >>>>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2759 - Release Date: 03/20/10 >> 07:33:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2763 - Release Date: 03/22/10 07:33:00 From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Mon Mar 22 17:22:05 2010 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] fed work In-Reply-To: <5eead.28e5d9f1.38d6b080@aol.com> Message-ID: <184889.2730.qm@web112405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi Ronza,   Thanks for all of your answers. You've been a big help.   Also, thanks for the names as far as mobility learning the Metro. I have a guy from DBVI (Virginia Department for the blind and visually-impaired) coming out on Thursday and we're going to do some mobility at the job site.   My new job is at OPM.   Thanks.   Mike --- On Sat, 3/20/10, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: From: AZNOR99 at aol.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] fed work To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Saturday, March 20, 2010, 7:13 PM Mike, Congratulations on your new job.  Where will you be working?  See  below for my answers. First, legal research. Does your agency give you an agencywide ID and  password for Westlaw and Lexis? Or do you have to sign up for either or both of  these services yourself and pay for it out of your own pocket? Each federal agency has a subscription to either WestLaw or Lexis; some  have both.  You will need to request a user name and password from your  agency or division librarian (or sometimes the rocurement officer can get  it).  I'd suggest you ask your first level supervisor how to get  one. Next, mobility. Specifically, do the federal buildings have signs  with braille denoting the room number, restrooms, etc.? Most federal buildings do have proper signage, however there are a few  that are out of date or lacking some in some areas.  However, this is very,  very rare. Third, documents. Is there braille on the vending machines? Braille  menus in the cafeteria? Agency manuals in braille or electronic form? Agency  manuals have to be in electronic form because of Section 508  Guidelines.  On occasion those manuals will be generated as PDFs, and once  in a while someone will forget to OCR them.  But this too is very, very  rare.  As for vending machines and menus, that'll depend on the specific  agency's policies.  For example, DHS does not have Braille on vending  machines.  I asked them to make a way for me to be able to purchase snacks,  so they requested overlays on the machines the manufacturer could provide one,  and they gave me a reader to read me the options so I could Braille out a list  that was posted on the side.  A matching list in large print was posted,  and it became part of the guy's job who filled the machine to check to make sure  no product was moved and to let me know if it was.  The cafeteria menus  were emailed to me, or a staff member reads them to me if they change day to  day. Finally, transportation. If any of you use Metro Access to get back and  forth from work, I would like to know what you've experienced. Specifically, how  reliable are they if you want an early morning 6:00 a.m. pick up? How about  picking up after work? How often do you get straight rides to work or from work  to home versus shared rides? (I'm especially interested in the experiences of  those of you who do a nine hour week, then four days of eight hours with the  fifth day being a day off. California calls it 9-8-80; I don't know what the  feds call it.) I don't use Metro Access so can't help you with that.  But DC has  perhaps the best system of public transportation in the country - I've literally  never had to go anywhere that wasn't on a bus or Metro Line.  The federal  government will likely give you a transit subsidity to cover your public  transportation costs, and trains and buses run nonstop.  You're talking about AWS or Alternative Work  Schedules.  That's all I can think of for now. Thanks. Let me know if you have  other questions.  Also, consider reaching out to Herald Wilson for some  mobility training and orientation to DC when you get here and Bridget Doherty  for help learning the Metro.  Ronza _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing  list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m_b_gilmore%40yahoo.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Mar 22 17:37:29 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:37:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Kathryn : As another alternative technique, you might try introducing yourself first, "Hi, I am Kathryn from American University." Hopefully, the other person will then emulate your introduction and give you his or her name and organization. As other have already said, though, using a white cane will help alleviate the issue of identifying with whom you are speaking and would solve other concerns as well. Noel nightingale -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Katy Carroll Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 1:37 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] advice Hi List! I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to you: Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. Not surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name and either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment or respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? I would appreciate any thoughts. -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Mar 22 17:40:39 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:40:39 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] fed work In-Reply-To: <493095.15663.qm@web112417.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Mike: Where will you be working? I work for the federal government, but in the hinterlands! Noel Nightingale -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Gilmore Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 3:30 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] fed work This is a question for those of you who work in D.C. for the feds. I realize it's a bit off topic and I apologize to the list; however, I couldn't think of any other forum to ask these questions.  I'll begin working for the feds a week from this Monday.   First, legal research. Does your agency give you an agencywide ID and password for Westlaw and Lexis? Or do you have to sign up for either or both of these services yourself and pay for it out of your own pocket?   Next, mobility. Specifically, do the federal buildings have signs with braille denoting the room number, restrooms, etc.?   Third, documents. Is there braille on the vending machines? Braille menus in the cafeteria? Agency manuals in braille or electronic form?   Finally, transportation. If any of you use Metro Access to get back and forth from work, I would like to know what you've experienced. Specifically, how reliable are they if you want an early morning 6:00 a.m. pick up? How about picking up after work? How often do you get straight rides to work or from work to home versus shared rides? (I'm especially interested in the experiences of those of you who do a nine hour week, then four days of eight hours with the fifth day being a day off. California calls it 9-8-80; I don't know what the feds call it.)   That's all I can think of for now. Thanks.   Mike     _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Mar 22 17:47:24 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:47:24 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Seeking roommate for national convention Message-ID: Blindlaw listers: I am seeking a roommate or roommates for the upcoming national convention in Dallas. Female roommates would probably be best! Please let me know if you are interested in sharing a room with me by replying to Noel.nightingale at ed.gov Thank you. Noel Nightingale From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Mon Mar 22 17:54:17 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:54:17 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] advice References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <425A291CCC56467D912AE2191CCE61F9@labarre> Katy, I am totally blind and have been so pretty much since the time I lost my sight. Therefore, I cannot directly relate with you other than to say my wife is in a similar situation. Sometimes, she carries her cane and sometimes not. I have noticed that she usually does take her cane when we are going somewhere new and plan on meeting new people. She finds it easier to explain that she is blind and has some residual vision than to deal with people thinking she is fully sighted and wondering why she isn't making the best eye contact or can't see the signs or can't read name tags or whatever. I think she also takes it because she wants to be able to use it in unfamiliar locations, especially at night and more especially to deal with stairs and other things she doesn't see too well. Ultimately, I guess it depends on which issue you'd rather have. I think it also depends on why it is you choose not to carry a cane. These are questions with which I cannot help you much. However, I can tell you that as an attorney, you are very likely going to be in situations that are pressure packed and move along quite quickly. In a courtroom, do you want a Judge or jury wondering why you aren't exactly acting like the other lawyers in the room? Would it be easier or harder to explain that you are legally blind and that is why you aren't able to read things or see objects or whatever? Or would it be easier to carry a cane alerting the judge and counsel that you are blind allowing you to explain later that you can see some. Now, I know you sent off your post not wondering whether you should carry a cane or not but rather asking the question of how you should explain yourself. I guess my first advice is to speak with others who are similarly situated. We have such blind lawyers on this list. Charlie Brown, our First Vice President, has quite a bit of residual vision yet has always carried a cane. I am sure there are others who don't. I wish you luck with this dilemma and I hope we can be helpful. Thanks, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37 PM Subject: [blindlaw] advice > Hi List! > > I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this > dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, > unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to > you: > > Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. > Not > surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name > and > either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate > networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane > with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment > or > respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people > who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has > anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? > > I would appreciate any thoughts. > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > American University > 631 521 3018 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 19:16:46 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:16:46 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado References: <678A359433A54644BFA4581B401E88EB@hometwxakonvzn><39874DDA77694C9FBAA82359BABBCBE9@StevePC><4383d01d1003220514w6a53bac7w8c5527f0363abae2@mail.gmail.com><2D888D2D79BA4E319737AB4194DB2B83@hometwxakonvzn> <530462F9BFF34F7C968C90C2EF7EB25D@StevePC> Message-ID: <3C21776A34034A338C68FA09760E69E4@hometwxakonvzn> Steve, with all do respect, are you a Lawyer? My friend asked a question concerning law. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > How do you propose to pay for this stuff? > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 10:19 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and > Colorado > > >> She is correct, I went to the same center she is refuring to, and they >> told >> me I wasn't college materal, and my best bet was flipping hamburgers. >> Now, >> If we can get back to her question, hopefuly, there is a lawyer on here >> who >> can answer her question as far as the rehabilitation act of 1973 is >> concerned. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:14 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and >> Colorado >> >> >>> The thing is that the Daytona center in Florida is not comprable. >>> I've heard more than one horror story about it, and anybody in Florida >>> who's on this list can attest to that. They don't use the cane as the >>> NFB suggests. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 3/21/10, Steve P. Deeley wrote: >>>> I have posted on this subject in the past and caught some real junk >>>> from >>>> those belonging to the NFB. I am not a FNFB basher, as a matter of >>>> fact, >>>> I >>>> agree with a great deal of their philosophies. I'll say this to you: >>>> You should get as much out of the center in your area that you can >>>> while >>>> attempting to get funding for your trip to the Colorado program. If it >>>> doesn't work out then ask for some assistance to get to Colorado. The >>>> The >>>> Budgets' of the various state Rehabilitation services are really in bad >>>> shape. There a lot of consumers who are attempting to be served and >>>> have >>>> educational and vocational needs. Someone in the NFB told me that a >>>> rehabilitation agency should have to pay for a gifted student to attend >>>> Harvard. That is absolutely absurd. There is only so much money to go >>>> around during these difficult times. >>>> Here is another point for you to consider: In Kentucky: a client has >>>> been >>>> fighting with the Kentucky Office for the Blind for well over two years >>>> in >>>> order to get a trip to one of the NFB Centers. This person has wasted >>>> over >>>> two years of his life fighting the agency. He did not attend the >>>> McDowell >>>> Center while fighting this out in various administrative processes and >>>> in >>>> court. This person could have been working his rehab plan while trying >>>> to >>>> get a trip to an NFB Center. This consumer chose not to follow that >>>> path. >>>> I think he made a huge mistake. He should have been attending the >>>> McDowell >>>> Center while fighting his battles with the Kentucky Office for the >>>> Blind. >>>> He will not get back those two or three years of his life. I don't >>>> know >>>> if >>>> the case has been resolved as of this posting. >>>> >>>> Steve Deeley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:28 AM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:59 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> You have all made good points. I do have a question: how can I best >>>>>> get the state agency to pay for Colorado and not give me hell about >>>>>> the money? I'm seriously trying to find where it says in Section 504 >>>>>> of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, but it says stuff about programs >>>>>> that receive federal funding. NFB centers to my knowledge don't get >>>>>> that, so I don't know how NFB centers apply. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/20/10, Elizabeth wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well, with all do respect, I would not make a decision based solely >>>>>>> upon >>>>>>> hearing about one bad experience any more than I would on the cost >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> airline ticket. Just because someone else had a bad experience does >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> necessarily mean that you will experience the same. Everyone goes to >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> training center at different stages of accepting their blindness and >>>>>>> possibly their identity as simply just another person in this world >>>>>>> who >>>>>>> happens to be blind. So I think maturity can also play a role in how >>>>>>> much >>>>>>> you get out of a training center as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And as far as learning specific skills like learning how to ride a >>>>>>> subway, I >>>>>>> do not think it really matters which center you choose because I >>>>>>> think >>>>>>> all >>>>>>> three would prepare you to perform this skill. I know of several >>>>>>> graduates >>>>>>> from the Louisiana Center who ride the subway just fine. The key >>>>>>> ingredient >>>>>>> is confidence in thinking that you can perform a skill no matter >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> kind >>>>>>> of situation you may encounter along the way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:40:28 -0400 >>>>>>>> From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com >>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, I have. The thing that bothers me is that one girl didn't like >>>>>>>> Louisiana as much as the other two people I've spoken to. Then, I >>>>>>>> haven't spoken to anybody in Colorado student wise. But I spoke >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> the director, so she says it's nice over there. She even gave me a >>>>>>>> good reason to consider it. But I am having to decide quick because >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> want to leave in May, and the state agency doesn't want to paqy in >>>>>>>> full. Now, of course, we're not sure they're willing to pay at all. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>>>> > Honestly, you should probably consider lots of things way before >>>>>>>> > plane >>>>>>>> > fares. The three training centers are not exact copies of each >>>>>>>> > other. >>>>>>>> > Have >>>>>>>> > you spoken with the directors or students of each center to gauge >>>>>>>> > opinions? >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>>>> > A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> > From: "Beth" >>>>>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:28 PM >>>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >> Then what must I decide or what must my decision be based on? >>>>>>>> >> Now >>>>>>>> >> that I know there's no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe, >>>>>>>> >> I've >>>>>>>> >> got something in my favor, but what should the decision be based >>>>>>>> >> upon? >>>>>>>> >> Beth >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>>>> >>> Beth, >>>>>>>> >>> I did a quick check at dates in April, and the cheapest to >>>>>>>> >>> Denver >>>>>>>> >>> looks >>>>>>>> >>> to >>>>>>>> >>> be around $211 with the cheapest tickets coming from Delta. >>>>>>>> >>> Midwest Airlines offers a nonstop route for $259 on various >>>>>>>> >>> dates. >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> As for Monroe, the cheapest dates in April offer a fare of $244 >>>>>>>> >>> roundtrip, >>>>>>>> >>> also from Delta. There is no nonstop service from Orlando to >>>>>>>> >>> Monroe. >>>>>>>> >>> Prices for airline tickets change wildly, but there really >>>>>>>> >>> doesn't >>>>>>>> >>> seem >>>>>>>> >>> to >>>>>>>> >>> be a lot of difference between the two, and I wouldn't base my >>>>>>>> >>> decision >>>>>>>> >>> on >>>>>>>> >>> which training center to visit purely on who has the cheapest >>>>>>>> >>> flights. >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>>>> >>> A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> >>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>> ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:24 PM >>>>>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>> Hi, guys. As luck would have it, I am looking at plane fares >>>>>>>> >>>> for >>>>>>>> >>>> both >>>>>>>> >>>> Louisiana and Colorado so that I can get a cheaper bid on a >>>>>>>> >>>> training >>>>>>>> >>>> center, possibly Colorado. How much is it to fly, say, from >>>>>>>> >>>> Orlando >>>>>>>> >>>> to Denver versus Orlando to Monroe, Louisiana? I'd like to >>>>>>>> >>>> know >>>>>>>> >>>> also >>>>>>>> >>>> what airlines you went with and so that I cancompare the >>>>>>>> >>>> prices. >>>>>>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>> >>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> >>>> info >>>>>>>> >>>> for >>>>>>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> >>> info >>>>>>>> >>> for >>>>>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> >> info >>>>>>>> >> for >>>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> > for >>>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >>>>>>> inbox. >>>>>>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2759 - Release Date: >>>> 03/20/10 >>>> 07:33:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2763 - Release Date: 03/22/10 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 19:24:33 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:24:33 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado Message-ID: <4ba7c3aa.13dbf10a.1935.5bcf@mx.google.com> I will probably talk with the director, and maybe even solicit money from charity if I have to. Any ideas from anyone around the NFB net community would be nice. Beth From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 23 01:45:48 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:45:48 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado In-Reply-To: <4ba7c3aa.13dbf10a.1935.5bcf@mx.google.com> References: <4ba7c3aa.13dbf10a.1935.5bcf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <3C9FE2264BA54B2A8298BA9503E9116C@spike> Has an NFB state chapter or the national subsidized or sponsored people to attend the NFB centers in cases where VR agencies will not pay for the services or a client for whatever reason might be ineligible? Perhaps this is an issue that NFB needs to look at as a means of providing services to as many clients as possible. I for one would would consider this a worthy expenditure of funds. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >I will probably talk with the director, and maybe even solicit money from >charity if I have to. Any ideas from anyone around the NFB net community >would be nice. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 03:47:08 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:47:08 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] advice References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> <425A291CCC56467D912AE2191CCE61F9@labarre> Message-ID: Scott, How do you deal with a new Judge? Do you walk into the courtroom, and explaine to the judge you're blind, and need this or that? How do you do it? This sighted judge has never delbt with a blind lawyer before. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice Katy, I am totally blind and have been so pretty much since the time I lost my sight. Therefore, I cannot directly relate with you other than to say my wife is in a similar situation. Sometimes, she carries her cane and sometimes not. I have noticed that she usually does take her cane when we are going somewhere new and plan on meeting new people. She finds it easier to explain that she is blind and has some residual vision than to deal with people thinking she is fully sighted and wondering why she isn't making the best eye contact or can't see the signs or can't read name tags or whatever. I think she also takes it because she wants to be able to use it in unfamiliar locations, especially at night and more especially to deal with stairs and other things she doesn't see too well. Ultimately, I guess it depends on which issue you'd rather have. I think it also depends on why it is you choose not to carry a cane. These are questions with which I cannot help you much. However, I can tell you that as an attorney, you are very likely going to be in situations that are pressure packed and move along quite quickly. In a courtroom, do you want a Judge or jury wondering why you aren't exactly acting like the other lawyers in the room? Would it be easier or harder to explain that you are legally blind and that is why you aren't able to read things or see objects or whatever? Or would it be easier to carry a cane alerting the judge and counsel that you are blind allowing you to explain later that you can see some. Now, I know you sent off your post not wondering whether you should carry a cane or not but rather asking the question of how you should explain yourself. I guess my first advice is to speak with others who are similarly situated. We have such blind lawyers on this list. Charlie Brown, our First Vice President, has quite a bit of residual vision yet has always carried a cane. I am sure there are others who don't. I wish you luck with this dilemma and I hope we can be helpful. Thanks, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37 PM Subject: [blindlaw] advice > Hi List! > > I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this > dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, > unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to > you: > > Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. > Not > surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name > and > either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate > networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane > with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment > or > respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people > who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has > anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? > > I would appreciate any thoughts. > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > American University > 631 521 3018 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From womankind at earthlink.net Tue Mar 23 06:30:16 2010 From: womankind at earthlink.net (Stephanie Ortoleva) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 02:30:16 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] laws addressing issues concerning persons who are blind In-Reply-To: <3C9FE2264BA54B2A8298BA9503E9116C@spike> References: <4ba7c3aa.13dbf10a.1935.5bcf@mx.google.com> <3C9FE2264BA54B2A8298BA9503E9116C@spike> Message-ID: Good evening, Has anyone seen a compilation listing laws addressing issues concerning persons who are blind? This would include white cane laws, laws regarding seeing eye dogs, copyright laws permitting "talking books", income tax benefits, and anything else. Thank you. Stephanie From womankind at earthlink.net Tue Mar 23 08:14:57 2010 From: womankind at earthlink.net (Stephanie Ortoleva) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 04:14:57 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] aavia@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not to ask about another group list here, but is the aavia at googlegroups.com list still alive as I have not seen posts for a very long time. thanks. Stephanie From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 10:14:33 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:14:33 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado References: <4ba7c3aa.13dbf10a.1935.5bcf@mx.google.com> <3C9FE2264BA54B2A8298BA9503E9116C@spike> Message-ID: Beth, I really think you should go ahead and get on to the ccb list. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > Has an NFB state chapter or the national subsidized or sponsored people to > attend the NFB centers in cases where VR agencies will not pay for the > services or a client for whatever reason might be ineligible? Perhaps this > is an issue that NFB needs to look at as a means of providing services to > as many clients as possible. I for one would would consider this a worthy > expenditure of funds. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 12:24 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and > Colorado > > >>I will probably talk with the director, and maybe even solicit money from >>charity if I have to. Any ideas from anyone around the NFB net community >>would be nice. >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Tue Mar 23 10:46:02 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:46:02 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado In-Reply-To: <3C21776A34034A338C68FA09760E69E4@hometwxakonvzn> References: <678A359433A54644BFA4581B401E88EB@hometwxakonvzn> <39874DDA77694C9FBAA82359BABBCBE9@StevePC> <4383d01d1003220514w6a53bac7w8c5527f0363abae2@mail.gmail.com> <2D888D2D79BA4E319737AB4194DB2B83@hometwxakonvzn> <530462F9BFF34F7C968C90C2EF7EB25D@StevePC> <3C21776A34034A338C68FA09760E69E4@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: No, I just want to know your opinion on paying for this sort of thing. This is sort of paying for healthcare, don't you think? The states are broke and running deficits. How long have you worked in the field of rehabilitation?] Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > Steve, with all do respect, are you a Lawyer? My friend asked a question > concerning law. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 12:44 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and > Colorado > > >> How do you propose to pay for this stuff? >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 10:19 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and >> Colorado >> >> >>> She is correct, I went to the same center she is refuring to, and they >>> told >>> me I wasn't college materal, and my best bet was flipping hamburgers. >>> Now, >>> If we can get back to her question, hopefuly, there is a lawyer on here >>> who >>> can answer her question as far as the rehabilitation act of 1973 is >>> concerned. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:14 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and >>> Colorado >>> >>> >>>> The thing is that the Daytona center in Florida is not comprable. >>>> I've heard more than one horror story about it, and anybody in Florida >>>> who's on this list can attest to that. They don't use the cane as the >>>> NFB suggests. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 3/21/10, Steve P. Deeley wrote: >>>>> I have posted on this subject in the past and caught some real junk >>>>> from >>>>> those belonging to the NFB. I am not a FNFB basher, as a matter of >>>>> fact, >>>>> I >>>>> agree with a great deal of their philosophies. I'll say this to you: >>>>> You should get as much out of the center in your area that you can >>>>> while >>>>> attempting to get funding for your trip to the Colorado program. If >>>>> it >>>>> doesn't work out then ask for some assistance to get to Colorado. The >>>>> The >>>>> Budgets' of the various state Rehabilitation services are really in >>>>> bad >>>>> shape. There a lot of consumers who are attempting to be served and >>>>> have >>>>> educational and vocational needs. Someone in the NFB told me that a >>>>> rehabilitation agency should have to pay for a gifted student to >>>>> attend >>>>> Harvard. That is absolutely absurd. There is only so much money to >>>>> go >>>>> around during these difficult times. >>>>> Here is another point for you to consider: In Kentucky: a client has >>>>> been >>>>> fighting with the Kentucky Office for the Blind for well over two >>>>> years >>>>> in >>>>> order to get a trip to one of the NFB Centers. This person has wasted >>>>> over >>>>> two years of his life fighting the agency. He did not attend the >>>>> McDowell >>>>> Center while fighting this out in various administrative processes and >>>>> in >>>>> court. This person could have been working his rehab plan while >>>>> trying >>>>> to >>>>> get a trip to an NFB Center. This consumer chose not to follow that >>>>> path. >>>>> I think he made a huge mistake. He should have been attending the >>>>> McDowell >>>>> Center while fighting his battles with the Kentucky Office for the >>>>> Blind. >>>>> He will not get back those two or three years of his life. I don't >>>>> know >>>>> if >>>>> the case has been resolved as of this posting. >>>>> >>>>> Steve Deeley >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:28 AM >>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and >>>>> Colorado >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:59 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> You have all made good points. I do have a question: how can I best >>>>>>> get the state agency to pay for Colorado and not give me hell about >>>>>>> the money? I'm seriously trying to find where it says in Section >>>>>>> 504 >>>>>>> of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, but it says stuff about programs >>>>>>> that receive federal funding. NFB centers to my knowledge don't get >>>>>>> that, so I don't know how NFB centers apply. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/20/10, Elizabeth wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well, with all do respect, I would not make a decision based solely >>>>>>>> upon >>>>>>>> hearing about one bad experience any more than I would on the cost >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> airline ticket. Just because someone else had a bad experience does >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> necessarily mean that you will experience the same. Everyone goes >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> training center at different stages of accepting their blindness >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> possibly their identity as simply just another person in this world >>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>> happens to be blind. So I think maturity can also play a role in >>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>> much >>>>>>>> you get out of a training center as well. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And as far as learning specific skills like learning how to ride a >>>>>>>> subway, I >>>>>>>> do not think it really matters which center you choose because I >>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>> three would prepare you to perform this skill. I know of several >>>>>>>> graduates >>>>>>>> from the Louisiana Center who ride the subway just fine. The key >>>>>>>> ingredient >>>>>>>> is confidence in thinking that you can perform a skill no matter >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>> kind >>>>>>>> of situation you may encounter along the way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:40:28 -0400 >>>>>>>>> From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com >>>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, I have. The thing that bothers me is that one girl didn't >>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>> Louisiana as much as the other two people I've spoken to. Then, I >>>>>>>>> haven't spoken to anybody in Colorado student wise. But I spoke >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> the director, so she says it's nice over there. She even gave me a >>>>>>>>> good reason to consider it. But I am having to decide quick >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> want to leave in May, and the state agency doesn't want to paqy in >>>>>>>>> full. Now, of course, we're not sure they're willing to pay at >>>>>>>>> all. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>>>>> > Honestly, you should probably consider lots of things way before >>>>>>>>> > plane >>>>>>>>> > fares. The three training centers are not exact copies of each >>>>>>>>> > other. >>>>>>>>> > Have >>>>>>>>> > you spoken with the directors or students of each center to >>>>>>>>> > gauge >>>>>>>>> > opinions? >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>>>>> > A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> > From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:28 PM >>>>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >> Then what must I decide or what must my decision be based on? >>>>>>>>> >> Now >>>>>>>>> >> that I know there's no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe, >>>>>>>>> >> I've >>>>>>>>> >> got something in my favor, but what should the decision be >>>>>>>>> >> based >>>>>>>>> >> upon? >>>>>>>>> >> Beth >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> >> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>> Beth, >>>>>>>>> >>> I did a quick check at dates in April, and the cheapest to >>>>>>>>> >>> Denver >>>>>>>>> >>> looks >>>>>>>>> >>> to >>>>>>>>> >>> be around $211 with the cheapest tickets coming from Delta. >>>>>>>>> >>> Midwest Airlines offers a nonstop route for $259 on various >>>>>>>>> >>> dates. >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> As for Monroe, the cheapest dates in April offer a fare of >>>>>>>>> >>> $244 >>>>>>>>> >>> roundtrip, >>>>>>>>> >>> also from Delta. There is no nonstop service from Orlando to >>>>>>>>> >>> Monroe. >>>>>>>>> >>> Prices for airline tickets change wildly, but there really >>>>>>>>> >>> doesn't >>>>>>>>> >>> seem >>>>>>>>> >>> to >>>>>>>>> >>> be a lot of difference between the two, and I wouldn't base my >>>>>>>>> >>> decision >>>>>>>>> >>> on >>>>>>>>> >>> which training center to visit purely on who has the cheapest >>>>>>>>> >>> flights. >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>>>>> >>> A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> >>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>> ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:24 PM >>>>>>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> Hi, guys. As luck would have it, I am looking at plane fares >>>>>>>>> >>>> for >>>>>>>>> >>>> both >>>>>>>>> >>>> Louisiana and Colorado so that I can get a cheaper bid on a >>>>>>>>> >>>> training >>>>>>>>> >>>> center, possibly Colorado. How much is it to fly, say, from >>>>>>>>> >>>> Orlando >>>>>>>>> >>>> to Denver versus Orlando to Monroe, Louisiana? I'd like to >>>>>>>>> >>>> know >>>>>>>>> >>>> also >>>>>>>>> >>>> what airlines you went with and so that I cancompare the >>>>>>>>> >>>> prices. >>>>>>>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>>> >>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> >>>> info >>>>>>>>> >>>> for >>>>>>>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> >>> info >>>>>>>>> >>> for >>>>>>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> >> info >>>>>>>>> >> for >>>>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> > info >>>>>>>>> > for >>>>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >>>>>>>> inbox. >>>>>>>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2759 - Release Date: >>>>> 03/20/10 >>>>> 07:33:00 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2763 - Release Date: 03/22/10 >> 07:33:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2763 - Release Date: 03/22/10 07:33:00 From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Mar 23 19:03:55 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:03:55 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Securities & Exchange Commission Job Opportunities Message-ID: ________________________________ From: Banjo, Akinyemi - ODEP [mailto:banjo.akinyemi at dol.gov] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 10:40 AM Subject: SEC Job Opportunities Please disseminate widely. Dear FDWC Colleagues, The U.S. Security and Exchange Commission (SEC) is doing a ton of hiring and we would like to broadcast these opportunities within the disability community. While some of the openings may be nearing the closing date, there may be people who may still be able to take advantage of them. Questions regarding this announcement should be directed to: Laura Stomski email: StomskiL at sec.gov Thanks, Akinyemi Banjo Federal Disability Workforce Consortium (FDWC) ________________________________ Closing dates range from 3/26 to 4/9. Note: The SEC has retained Futurestep, a Korn/Ferry Company, to provide strategic talent acquisition solutions to help the agency address its continuing talent needs. You will see below that a number of the job applications can be found on the SEC Recruitment Center in addition to USAJobs. For more information about job opportunities at the SEC, please visit www.sec.gov/jobs or Twitter at www.Twitter.com/SEC_Jobs. Industry Professionals New York - Senior Specialized Examiner positions (3) (Closing 4/4) http://sec.futurestep.com/Opportunities/SEC69234 DC/New York - Asset Management Specialists (Asset Management Unit) (Closing 4/4) http://sec.futurestep.com/Opportunities/SEC68983 There are also a number of Senior Specialized Examiner positions open until 3/25 that were announced in my last email. Areas of expertise sought include hedge funds, derivatives, clearing agencies, information security, risk management, options, and valuation. These positions are in DC and in a number of regional offices. Please review postings on the SEC Recruitment Center. Attorneys DC - Staff Attorney position in the Office of Chief Counsel, Division of Enforcement (Closing 3/31) http://tinyurl.com/yhna2yl Boston - Trial Attorney positions (2) (Closing 4/2) http://tinyurl.com/yf87zga 5:32 PM Mar 17th Denver - Supervisory Trial Attorney position (Closing 4/7) http://tinyurl.com/ycemdxl New York - Enforcement Staff Attorney positions (7) (Closing 3/31) http://tinyurl.com/yfervyz New York - Trial Attorney position (Closing 4/5) http://tinyurl.com/yzd25me Philadelphia - Trial Attorney position (Closing 3/26) http://tinyurl.com/y8vpvl8 Philadelphia - Enforcement Staff Attorney positions (3) (Closing 4/1) http://tinyurl.com/yl6k3ze San Francisco - Enforcement Staff Attorney positions (3) (Closing 4/1) http://tinyurl.com/yka7rtl Accountants and Examiners DC - Staff Accountant position in the Office of the Chief Accountant (International Group) (Closing 4/2) http://tinyurl.com/yeztpjy DC/VA - Accountant position in the Office of Information Technology (Budget and Acquisitions) (Closing 3/29) http://tinyurl.com/ydp9lgm Atlanta - Securities Compliance Examiner positions (2) (Closing 4/5) http://tinyurl.com/ydgmrws Denver - Staff Accountant positions (a few) (Closing 3/26) http://tinyurl.com/y8ev3hy New York - Supervisory Securities Compliance Examiner position (Closing 4/9) http://tinyurl.com/yda92jl New York - Supervisory Staff Accountant position (Closing 4/9) http://tinyurl.com/yckgaqm New York - Staff Accountant position (Closing 3/30) http://tinyurl.com/yejholb New York - Staff Accountant position (Closing 3/26) http://tinyurl.com/y8luy3b New York - Securities Compliance Examiner positions (2) (Closing 3/31) http://tinyurl.com/yceyccn New York - Securities Compliance Examiner positions (12) (Closing 3/31) http://tinyurl.com/yezdz29 Salt Lake City - Staff Accountant position (Closing 4/6) http://tinyurl.com/yc7d45y San Francisco - Staff Accountant positions (3) (Closing 4/1) http://tinyurl.com/yeg3rew Paralegals The SEC is offering a term paralegal program at the SK-7 level. It is a 14 month term position that may be extended up to 4 years. This program may be of interest to students graduating from college and thinking of law school in the next few years. Term Paralegal positions-DC, Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Denver, Ft. Worth, Los Angeles, Miami, New York, Philadelphia, and San Francisco (Closing 4/2) http://tinyurl.com/yh5l2q3 Information Technology IT Specialist (Litigation Support) in the Division of Enforcement in DC (Closing 4/2) http://tinyurl.com/ybm7jwf Information Technology (Information Security) positions in the Division of Trading and Markets (Closing 4/29) http://tinyurl.com/y9ogvfb Other Legal Instruments Examiner in the Office of Financial Management (Closing 3/31) http://tinyurl.com/yckb2q3 Secretary position in the Office of Chief Counsel (Enforcement) (Closing 3/31) http://tinyurl.com/yb6hfbe HR Specialist (Compensation) in DC (Closing 3/30) http://tinyurl.com/yd2l7la Lead HR Specialist (Benefits) in DC (Closing 3/30) http://tinyurl.com/yckqjaj From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Mar 23 19:04:49 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:04:49 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:51 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice ________________________________ From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:26 PM To: nawl at nawl.org; ncai at ncai.org; nedy at wyjlaw.com; newmedia at ja.org; Neysas at dnfsb.gov; Maurer, Patricia; nijc at aol.com; nlove at opd.state.md.us; nmcconnell at jackscamp.com; noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; nwpatton at law.stanford.edu; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA SUPERVISORY ASSISTANTUNITED STATES ATTORNEY SACREMENTO, CALIFORNIA MARCH 22, 2010 10-EDCA-12A This position will be open until filled; however, applications received by Friday, April 9, 2010, will be given first consideration. Date posted: 03-22-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTICT OF OKLAHOMA 10-NDOK-01 This position is open umtil filled. Date posted: 03-22-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS EVALUATION AND REVIEW STAFF ATTORNEY ADVISOR, GS-0905-15 VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NO: 10-EOUSA-008 Application materials must be received by 11:59pm (Eastern Standard Time) on the closing date. 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Date posted: 03-18-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS GENERAL COUNSELS OFFICE ATTORNEY ADVISOR, GS-0905-15 VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NO: 10-EOUSA-009 CLOSES 04/01/2010 Applications must be received by the closing date. Date posted: 03-18-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, COORDINATION AND REVIEW SECTION DEPUTY CHIEF, GS-905-15 ANNOUNCEMENT #10-ATT-010 CLOSES 4/09/10 Applications must be received by the closing date. Date posted: 03-17-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, DISABILITY RIGHTS SECTION DEPUTY CHIEF, GS-905-15 ANNOUNCEMENT #10-ATT-011 CLOSES 4/02/10 Applications must be received by the closing date. Date posted: 03-17-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY/ATTORNEY ADVISOR, GS-15 ANNOUNCEMENT: OPR ATY 10-001 Applications must be received by March 22, 2010. 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Date posted: 03-15-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C. (1) EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEY, ASSOCIATE GENERAL COUNSEL (CHAPTER 11), GS-905-15 ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 10-11-14001 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of March 29, 2010. Date posted: 03-12-2010 * EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS / GS-12 to GS-15 CIVIL DIVISION, COMMERCIAL LITIGATION BRANCH, FRAUD SECTION WASHINGTON, DC Applications should be submitted as early as possible but, in any event, not later than May 1, 2010. Date posted: 03-12-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C. (1) EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEY, ASSOCIATE GENERAL COUNSEL (CHAPTER 11), GS-905-15 ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 10-11-14001 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of March 29, 2010. Date posted: 03-12-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING INTERMITTENT LEGAL ADVISOR IN TAIWAN Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. Date posted: 03-12-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (CRIMINAL) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF MARYLAND NORTHERN (BALTIMORE) AND SOUTHERN (GREENBELT) DIVISIONS ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 10-MD-06 Any interested applicant should submit a cover letter, resume, and law school transcript via e-mail no later than April 5, 2010. Date posted: 03-11-2010 * SPECIAL ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA - SAN JOSE BRANCH 10-NDCA-02-E Applications must be postmarked by March 25, 2010. Date posted: 03-10-2010 The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From kc2992a at student.american.edu Tue Mar 23 20:41:22 2010 From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:41:22 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> <425A291CCC56467D912AE2191CCE61F9@labarre> Message-ID: <2fdbeb321003231341u58153abdi6cee832f7494d1ab@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I really appreciate all of your responses to my question. I am one of those people who uses a cane only sometimes, because I don't have to. Therefore, I have come into situation when I have had my cane with me and people have commented that I don't act like I am blind, so why do I need to carry a cane; and also situations in which I didn't have my cane and was unable to explain that there was something I couldn't see and why. Scott, I appreciate your foresight about what life will be like working in a courtroom. I echo the question about how you approach a new judge. Best, Kate On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:47 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Scott, How do you deal with a new Judge? Do you walk into the courtroom, > and explaine to the judge you're blind, and need this or that? How do you do > it? This sighted judge has never delbt with a blind lawyer before. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:54 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > > Katy, I am totally blind and have been so pretty much since the time I lost > my sight. Therefore, I cannot directly relate with you other than to say > my > wife is in a similar situation. Sometimes, she carries her cane and > sometimes not. I have noticed that she usually does take her cane when we > are going somewhere new and plan on meeting new people. She finds it > easier > to explain that she is blind and has some residual vision than to deal with > people thinking she is fully sighted and wondering why she isn't making the > best eye contact or can't see the signs or can't read name tags or > whatever. > I think she also takes it because she wants to be able to use it in > unfamiliar locations, especially at night and more especially to deal with > stairs and other things she doesn't see too well. > > Ultimately, I guess it depends on which issue you'd rather have. I think > it > also depends on why it is you choose not to carry a cane. These are > questions with which I cannot help you much. > > However, I can tell you that as an attorney, you are very likely going to > be > in situations that are pressure packed and move along quite quickly. In a > courtroom, do you want a Judge or jury wondering why you aren't exactly > acting like the other lawyers in the room? Would it be easier or harder to > explain that you are legally blind and that is why you aren't able to > read > things or see objects or whatever? Or would it be easier to carry a cane > alerting the judge and counsel that you are blind allowing you to explain > later that you can see some. > > Now, I know you sent off your post not wondering whether you should carry a > cane or not but rather asking the question of how you should explain > yourself. I guess my first advice is to speak with others who are > similarly situated. We have such blind lawyers on this list. Charlie > Brown, our First Vice President, has quite a bit of residual vision yet > has > always carried a cane. I am sure there are others who don't. > > I wish you luck with this dilemma and I hope we can be helpful. > Thanks, > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any > attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" < > kc2992a at student.american.edu> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] advice > > > Hi List! >> >> I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this >> dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, >> unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to >> you: >> >> Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. >> Not >> surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name >> and >> either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate >> networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane >> with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment >> or >> respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people >> who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has >> anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? >> >> I would appreciate any thoughts. >> >> -- >> Kathryn CARROLL >> American University >> 631 521 3018 >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 From keith-vick at msn.com Tue Mar 23 22:34:57 2010 From: keith-vick at msn.com (K V) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:34:57 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <2fdbeb321003231341u58153abdi6cee832f7494d1ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com>, <425A291CCC56467D912AE2191CCE61F9@labarre>, , <2fdbeb321003231341u58153abdi6cee832f7494d1ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Kate, I am in a similar situation. My vision is progressively getting worse by field of vision. Also, my central vision has faded such that more light is needed for me to see. I began to use a cane a few years ago and various people responded with everything from disbelief to skepticism to, quite frankly, hostility. This has been very difficult to overcome. My cane trainer suggested that I use the cane all the time. In retrospect he may have been sensitive to how people perceive the partial use of a cane. At first I tried to use the cane all the time but it felt silly when I was walking in a familiar environment with minimal traffic and nice flat sidewalks in bright sunlight. So, I started to selectively use the cane. Regarding court room appearances, I have not yet actually practiced in court room. I am taking the bar this July. However, I did have a moot court class which was presided over by Judge Sullivan in the 2nd Circuit. The classes met in the Moynihan courtroom in Manhattan. It was a privilege. Anyways, I emailed the judge to let him know that I did have vision problems. He was very courteous. By the end of the semester I think I ran into a chair and stumbled over taped down wires - but otherwise it was uneventful. The witness chair steps were a pain though. I never did use a cane in the courtroom. For my final trial I showed up about an hour early and basically walked the court room to memorize where everything was. I walked from the lecturn to the witness stand to my table a few times. The trial went fine without any tripping or stumbling. I do think the judge was concerned by my use of extra extra large fonts in my notes as the jury could have read the notes if I held them up. One thing I was thinking of doing was creating a boilerplate letter that included my field of vision plot and sharing it with the judge and opposing counsel prior to any court appearances. I am assuming the opposing counsel wouldn't take advantage of the information and move boxes or chairs around in the courtroom during arguments or witness examinations. I suspect a judge would say something if she detected that kind of tactic. I am curious what suggestions others have. If you want to discuss this more offline, please feel free to contact me. Warmest regards, Keith Vick > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:41:22 -0400 > From: kc2992a at student.american.edu > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > Hi all, > > I really appreciate all of your responses to my question. I am one of those > people who uses a cane only sometimes, because I don't have to. Therefore, I > have come into situation when I have had my cane with me and people have > commented that I don't act like I am blind, so why do I need to carry a > cane; and also situations in which I didn't have my cane and was unable to > explain that there was something I couldn't see and why. > > Scott, I appreciate your foresight about what life will be like working in a > courtroom. I echo the question about how you approach a new judge. > > Best, > Kate > > On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:47 PM, RJ Sandefur > wrote: > > > Scott, How do you deal with a new Judge? Do you walk into the courtroom, > > and explaine to the judge you're blind, and need this or that? How do you do > > it? This sighted judge has never delbt with a blind lawyer before. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > > > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:54 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > > > > > Katy, I am totally blind and have been so pretty much since the time I lost > > my sight. Therefore, I cannot directly relate with you other than to say > > my > > wife is in a similar situation. Sometimes, she carries her cane and > > sometimes not. I have noticed that she usually does take her cane when we > > are going somewhere new and plan on meeting new people. She finds it > > easier > > to explain that she is blind and has some residual vision than to deal with > > people thinking she is fully sighted and wondering why she isn't making the > > best eye contact or can't see the signs or can't read name tags or > > whatever. > > I think she also takes it because she wants to be able to use it in > > unfamiliar locations, especially at night and more especially to deal with > > stairs and other things she doesn't see too well. > > > > Ultimately, I guess it depends on which issue you'd rather have. I think > > it > > also depends on why it is you choose not to carry a cane. These are > > questions with which I cannot help you much. > > > > However, I can tell you that as an attorney, you are very likely going to > > be > > in situations that are pressure packed and move along quite quickly. In a > > courtroom, do you want a Judge or jury wondering why you aren't exactly > > acting like the other lawyers in the room? Would it be easier or harder to > > explain that you are legally blind and that is why you aren't able to > > read > > things or see objects or whatever? Or would it be easier to carry a cane > > alerting the judge and counsel that you are blind allowing you to explain > > later that you can see some. > > > > Now, I know you sent off your post not wondering whether you should carry a > > cane or not but rather asking the question of how you should explain > > yourself. I guess my first advice is to speak with others who are > > similarly situated. We have such blind lawyers on this list. Charlie > > Brown, our First Vice President, has quite a bit of residual vision yet > > has > > always carried a cane. I am sure there are others who don't. > > > > I wish you luck with this dilemma and I hope we can be helpful. > > Thanks, > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > privileged > > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any > > attachments > > are covered by the Electronic > > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" < > > kc2992a at student.american.edu> > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37 PM > > Subject: [blindlaw] advice > > > > > > Hi List! > >> > >> I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this > >> dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, > >> unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to > >> you: > >> > >> Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. > >> Not > >> surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name > >> and > >> either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate > >> networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane > >> with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment > >> or > >> respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people > >> who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has > >> anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? > >> > >> I would appreciate any thoughts. > >> > >> -- > >> Kathryn CARROLL > >> American University > >> 631 521 3018 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu > > > > > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > American University > 631 521 3018 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keith-vick%40msn.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 24 01:28:52 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:28:52 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <2fdbeb321003231341u58153abdi6cee832f7494d1ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com><425A291CCC56467D912AE2191CCE61F9@labarre> <2fdbeb321003231341u58153abdi6cee832f7494d1ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It is much easier to carry the cane and explain that there are degrees of blindness which is something that many sighted people don't think about. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice Hi all, I really appreciate all of your responses to my question. I am one of those people who uses a cane only sometimes, because I don't have to. Therefore, I have come into situation when I have had my cane with me and people have commented that I don't act like I am blind, so why do I need to carry a cane; and also situations in which I didn't have my cane and was unable to explain that there was something I couldn't see and why. Scott, I appreciate your foresight about what life will be like working in a courtroom. I echo the question about how you approach a new judge. Best, Kate On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:47 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Scott, How do you deal with a new Judge? Do you walk into the courtroom, > and explaine to the judge you're blind, and need this or that? How do you > do > it? This sighted judge has never delbt with a blind lawyer before. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:54 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > > Katy, I am totally blind and have been so pretty much since the time I > lost > my sight. Therefore, I cannot directly relate with you other than to say > my > wife is in a similar situation. Sometimes, she carries her cane and > sometimes not. I have noticed that she usually does take her cane when we > are going somewhere new and plan on meeting new people. She finds it > easier > to explain that she is blind and has some residual vision than to deal > with > people thinking she is fully sighted and wondering why she isn't making > the > best eye contact or can't see the signs or can't read name tags or > whatever. > I think she also takes it because she wants to be able to use it in > unfamiliar locations, especially at night and more especially to deal with > stairs and other things she doesn't see too well. > > Ultimately, I guess it depends on which issue you'd rather have. I think > it > also depends on why it is you choose not to carry a cane. These are > questions with which I cannot help you much. > > However, I can tell you that as an attorney, you are very likely going to > be > in situations that are pressure packed and move along quite quickly. In a > courtroom, do you want a Judge or jury wondering why you aren't exactly > acting like the other lawyers in the room? Would it be easier or harder > to > explain that you are legally blind and that is why you aren't able to > read > things or see objects or whatever? Or would it be easier to carry a cane > alerting the judge and counsel that you are blind allowing you to explain > later that you can see some. > > Now, I know you sent off your post not wondering whether you should carry > a > cane or not but rather asking the question of how you should explain > yourself. I guess my first advice is to speak with others who are > similarly situated. We have such blind lawyers on this list. Charlie > Brown, our First Vice President, has quite a bit of residual vision yet > has > always carried a cane. I am sure there are others who don't. > > I wish you luck with this dilemma and I hope we can be helpful. > Thanks, > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any > attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" < > kc2992a at student.american.edu> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] advice > > > Hi List! >> >> I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this >> dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, >> unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to >> you: >> >> Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. >> Not >> surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name >> and >> either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate >> networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane >> with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment >> or >> respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people >> who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has >> anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? >> >> I would appreciate any thoughts. >> >> -- >> Kathryn CARROLL >> American University >> 631 521 3018 >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Mar 24 04:32:44 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 21:32:44 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] advice References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com><425A291CCC56467D912AE2191CCE61F9@labarre> <2fdbeb321003231341u58153abdi6cee832f7494d1ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7295257@EVS02.central.pima.gov> That's what I have been trying - fortunately, I currently practice in the juvenile section of our office (public defense office), so there is not the jury issue to deal with. The greater issue is the speed at which we have to set up, and vacate, the defense table during morning court - the cane is the least of the issues, since I am still able to read with the use of a portable video magnifier. In general, though, it has given me the opportunity (desired or not) to get people acquainted with both the varying degrees of blindness mentioned and the technology available to permit us to continue to do the things we have always done. ________________________________ From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org on behalf of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tue 3/23/2010 6:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice It is much easier to carry the cane and explain that there are degrees of blindness which is something that many sighted people don't think about. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice Hi all, I really appreciate all of your responses to my question. I am one of those people who uses a cane only sometimes, because I don't have to. Therefore, I have come into situation when I have had my cane with me and people have commented that I don't act like I am blind, so why do I need to carry a cane; and also situations in which I didn't have my cane and was unable to explain that there was something I couldn't see and why. Scott, I appreciate your foresight about what life will be like working in a courtroom. I echo the question about how you approach a new judge. Best, Kate On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:47 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Scott, How do you deal with a new Judge? Do you walk into the courtroom, > and explaine to the judge you're blind, and need this or that? How do you > do > it? This sighted judge has never delbt with a blind lawyer before. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:54 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > > Katy, I am totally blind and have been so pretty much since the time I > lost > my sight. Therefore, I cannot directly relate with you other than to say > my > wife is in a similar situation. Sometimes, she carries her cane and > sometimes not. I have noticed that she usually does take her cane when we > are going somewhere new and plan on meeting new people. She finds it > easier > to explain that she is blind and has some residual vision than to deal > with > people thinking she is fully sighted and wondering why she isn't making > the > best eye contact or can't see the signs or can't read name tags or > whatever. > I think she also takes it because she wants to be able to use it in > unfamiliar locations, especially at night and more especially to deal with > stairs and other things she doesn't see too well. > > Ultimately, I guess it depends on which issue you'd rather have. I think > it > also depends on why it is you choose not to carry a cane. These are > questions with which I cannot help you much. > > However, I can tell you that as an attorney, you are very likely going to > be > in situations that are pressure packed and move along quite quickly. In a > courtroom, do you want a Judge or jury wondering why you aren't exactly > acting like the other lawyers in the room? Would it be easier or harder > to > explain that you are legally blind and that is why you aren't able to > read > things or see objects or whatever? Or would it be easier to carry a cane > alerting the judge and counsel that you are blind allowing you to explain > later that you can see some. > > Now, I know you sent off your post not wondering whether you should carry > a > cane or not but rather asking the question of how you should explain > yourself. I guess my first advice is to speak with others who are > similarly situated. We have such blind lawyers on this list. Charlie > Brown, our First Vice President, has quite a bit of residual vision yet > has > always carried a cane. I am sure there are others who don't. > > I wish you luck with this dilemma and I hope we can be helpful. > Thanks, > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any > attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" < > kc2992a at student.american.edu> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] advice > > > Hi List! >> >> I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this >> dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, >> unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to >> you: >> >> Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. >> Not >> surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name >> and >> either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate >> networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane >> with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment >> or >> respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people >> who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has >> anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? >> >> I would appreciate any thoughts. >> >> -- >> Kathryn CARROLL >> American University >> 631 521 3018 >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 24 08:49:25 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:49:25 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7295257@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com><425A291CCC56467D912AE2191CCE61F9@labarre><2fdbeb321003231341u58153abdi6cee832f7494d1ab@mail.gmail.com> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7295257@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <48DA7E1F7F32407395758927F0CD6567@spike> When I was in paralegal school I was considering an internship with the local public defender's office but at that time the drawback was the high volume of handwritten documents such as police reports that I would not have been able to read. Apparently, now police reports for felony cases are typed but not all misdemeanor reports are typed locally. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kelly" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" ; "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice That's what I have been trying - fortunately, I currently practice in the juvenile section of our office (public defense office), so there is not the jury issue to deal with. The greater issue is the speed at which we have to set up, and vacate, the defense table during morning court - the cane is the least of the issues, since I am still able to read with the use of a portable video magnifier. In general, though, it has given me the opportunity (desired or not) to get people acquainted with both the varying degrees of blindness mentioned and the technology available to permit us to continue to do the things we have always done. ________________________________ From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org on behalf of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tue 3/23/2010 6:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice It is much easier to carry the cane and explain that there are degrees of blindness which is something that many sighted people don't think about. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice Hi all, I really appreciate all of your responses to my question. I am one of those people who uses a cane only sometimes, because I don't have to. Therefore, I have come into situation when I have had my cane with me and people have commented that I don't act like I am blind, so why do I need to carry a cane; and also situations in which I didn't have my cane and was unable to explain that there was something I couldn't see and why. Scott, I appreciate your foresight about what life will be like working in a courtroom. I echo the question about how you approach a new judge. Best, Kate On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:47 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Scott, How do you deal with a new Judge? Do you walk into the courtroom, > and explaine to the judge you're blind, and need this or that? How do you > do > it? This sighted judge has never delbt with a blind lawyer before. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:54 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > > Katy, I am totally blind and have been so pretty much since the time I > lost > my sight. Therefore, I cannot directly relate with you other than to say > my > wife is in a similar situation. Sometimes, she carries her cane and > sometimes not. I have noticed that she usually does take her cane when we > are going somewhere new and plan on meeting new people. She finds it > easier > to explain that she is blind and has some residual vision than to deal > with > people thinking she is fully sighted and wondering why she isn't making > the > best eye contact or can't see the signs or can't read name tags or > whatever. > I think she also takes it because she wants to be able to use it in > unfamiliar locations, especially at night and more especially to deal with > stairs and other things she doesn't see too well. > > Ultimately, I guess it depends on which issue you'd rather have. I think > it > also depends on why it is you choose not to carry a cane. These are > questions with which I cannot help you much. > > However, I can tell you that as an attorney, you are very likely going to > be > in situations that are pressure packed and move along quite quickly. In a > courtroom, do you want a Judge or jury wondering why you aren't exactly > acting like the other lawyers in the room? Would it be easier or harder > to > explain that you are legally blind and that is why you aren't able to > read > things or see objects or whatever? Or would it be easier to carry a cane > alerting the judge and counsel that you are blind allowing you to explain > later that you can see some. > > Now, I know you sent off your post not wondering whether you should carry > a > cane or not but rather asking the question of how you should explain > yourself. I guess my first advice is to speak with others who are > similarly situated. We have such blind lawyers on this list. Charlie > Brown, our First Vice President, has quite a bit of residual vision yet > has > always carried a cane. I am sure there are others who don't. > > I wish you luck with this dilemma and I hope we can be helpful. > Thanks, > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any > attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" < > kc2992a at student.american.edu> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] advice > > > Hi List! >> >> I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this >> dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, >> unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to >> you: >> >> Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. >> Not >> surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name >> and >> either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate >> networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane >> with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment >> or >> respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people >> who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has >> anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? >> >> I would appreciate any thoughts. >> >> -- >> Kathryn CARROLL >> American University >> 631 521 3018 >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From agtolentino at gmail.com Wed Mar 24 10:02:53 2010 From: agtolentino at gmail.com (Aser Tolentino) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 03:02:53 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] High Volume Criminal Calendars Message-ID: Hi Everybody, Has anyone on list ever handled a high volume criminal calendar, say in excess of 50 cases for the morning? I really want to be a prosecutor. I have discovered that I (technically right now a secretary since interns don't have access) can pull scanned versions of the files themselves from the office's archives to use to prepare for hearings and the like. That and trial, though I've never done a real one, I think I can deal with. The big obstacle at the moment is calendars. Standing in for a number of attorneys, one prosecutor might have 50 or more cases on the table for the morning calendar, dealing with everything from first appearances to judgment and sentencing. The big issue is that I can't read the notes on the docket sheets. Has anyone ever been in my position or something like it? I'm thinking a reader might be the only possible solution. We would have to go over cases when the calendar was prepared and he or she would have to be there with me if questions arose during court. I'm not sure how viable that is. Assuming all of that is viable. Does anyone have any advice on how to bring up the need for a reader with a potential employer? Is that a cost they incur for hiring me? It has been suggested, in a speculative way, that I might have better luck getting such support at a large metro office rather than out in the smaller counties where I've worked. Any thoughts on that? I like to think of myself as being able to come up with solutions to such issues, but I'm aware of potential limitations. Any guidance you could provide would be appreciated. Thanks, Aser From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Wed Mar 24 10:37:58 2010 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 06:37:58 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] High Volume Criminal Calendars In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9B9E3BAAB977499182D4907F415B860E@14bd0130080a469> Hi Aser, I have a full-time reader/sighted assistant since I work regularly with visual formats and hand written materials in federal government. I requested a reasonable accommodation. My employer contracts with a temp agency and assigns a number of hours/week according to needs of blind employees in this division. The approximately $70,000/year contract to do this is more expensive than hiring a part or even full-time person at a low grade level for the job of working with several blind employees. My employer chose the contract route. It sounds like you are in county government, so there are differences. Sorry, that is what I have to offer. Cathryn Bonnette -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aser Tolentino Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:03 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] High Volume Criminal Calendars Hi Everybody, Has anyone on list ever handled a high volume criminal calendar, say in excess of 50 cases for the morning? I really want to be a prosecutor. I have discovered that I (technically right now a secretary since interns don't have access) can pull scanned versions of the files themselves from the office's archives to use to prepare for hearings and the like. That and trial, though I've never done a real one, I think I can deal with. The big obstacle at the moment is calendars. Standing in for a number of attorneys, one prosecutor might have 50 or more cases on the table for the morning calendar, dealing with everything from first appearances to judgment and sentencing. The big issue is that I can't read the notes on the docket sheets. Has anyone ever been in my position or something like it? I'm thinking a reader might be the only possible solution. We would have to go over cases when the calendar was prepared and he or she would have to be there with me if questions arose during court. I'm not sure how viable that is. Assuming all of that is viable. Does anyone have any advice on how to bring up the need for a reader with a potential employer? Is that a cost they incur for hiring me? It has been suggested, in a speculative way, that I might have better luck getting such support at a large metro office rather than out in the smaller counties where I've worked. Any thoughts on that? I like to think of myself as being able to come up with solutions to such issues, but I'm aware of potential limitations. Any guidance you could provide would be appreciated. Thanks, Aser _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2765 - Release Date: 03/23/10 07:33:00 From AZNOR99 at aol.com Wed Mar 24 12:04:08 2010 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 08:04:08 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] High Volume Criminal Calendars Message-ID: <72ee.2cbd3e62.38db59b8@aol.com> Hello, I prosecuted criminal cases for Cook County, the second largest unified court system in the country, for several years. On average, I handled between 50-75 cases a day, ranging from bond hearings to jury or bench trials. I originally started out as a law clerk myself, so I didn't feel I had the leverage to be able to ask for a reader. So instead, I'd spend the afternoon and evening before the court call looking at the files and creating notes in Braille or on my laptop for the next day. I requested that the local police departments email me police reports, and I was then able to read them with Jaws; the administrative assistant who pulled backgrounds for defendants knew that she'd have to spend a few minutes with me in my court room reading their content to me so I could add that to my notes during the call. The nature of high volume litigation is such that the case files generally consist of a criminal complaint (which is mostly standard except for the crime and the basis for the crime), a police report, a criminal background, and perhaps pictures if it was a violent crime. Thus I could generally get the gist of a case down to a paragraph or so of notes. Later, I began using the KNFB Reader to give me instant access to information. This was fantastic because I could independently read a supplemental report or a case that was transferred to me from another courtroom without having to find someone to read for me. And worst case scenario, as a law clerk, I had access to a supervising attorney who could read if necessary. But when I became the supervising attorney (which happens pretty much 10 minutes after you're hired permanently in Cook County), I requested law clerks for my court call, and they doubled as readers when necessary. It worked pretty well. Feel free to email me off list if you have additional questions. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 3/24/2010 7:39:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cathrynisfinally at verizon.net writes: Hi Aser, I have a full-time reader/sighted assistant since I work regularly with visual formats and hand written materials in federal government. I requested a reasonable accommodation. My employer contracts with a temp agency and assigns a number of hours/week according to needs of blind employees in this division. The approximately $70,000/year contract to do this is more expensive than hiring a part or even full-time person at a low grade level for the job of working with several blind employees. My employer chose the contract route. It sounds like you are in county government, so there are differences. Sorry, that is what I have to offer. Cathryn Bonnette -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aser Tolentino Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:03 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] High Volume Criminal Calendars Hi Everybody, Has anyone on list ever handled a high volume criminal calendar, say in excess of 50 cases for the morning? I really want to be a prosecutor. I have discovered that I (technically right now a secretary since interns don't have access) can pull scanned versions of the files themselves from the office's archives to use to prepare for hearings and the like. That and trial, though I've never done a real one, I think I can deal with. The big obstacle at the moment is calendars. Standing in for a number of attorneys, one prosecutor might have 50 or more cases on the table for the morning calendar, dealing with everything from first appearances to judgment and sentencing. The big issue is that I can't read the notes on the docket sheets. Has anyone ever been in my position or something like it? I'm thinking a reader might be the only possible solution. We would have to go over cases when the calendar was prepared and he or she would have to be there with me if questions arose during court. I'm not sure how viable that is. Assuming all of that is viable. Does anyone have any advice on how to bring up the need for a reader with a potential employer? Is that a cost they incur for hiring me? It has been suggested, in a speculative way, that I might have better luck getting such support at a large metro office rather than out in the smaller counties where I've worked. Any thoughts on that? I like to think of myself as being able to come up with solutions to such issues, but I'm aware of potential limitations. Any guidance you could provide would be appreciated. Thanks, Aser _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2765 - Release Date: 03/23/10 07:33:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 24 19:01:12 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:01:12 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] High Volume Criminal Calendars In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Many of the better paralegal programs require paralegal students to go an internship as part of their training. This sounds like it would be appropriate as the paralegal student would actually be performing paralegal functions by assisting you in court and helping to prepare cases. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno, ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aser Tolentino" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:02 AM Subject: [blindlaw] High Volume Criminal Calendars > Hi Everybody, > Has anyone on list ever handled a high volume criminal calendar, say in > excess of 50 cases for the morning? I really want to be a prosecutor. I > have > discovered that I (technically right now a secretary since interns don't > have access) can pull scanned versions of the files themselves from the > office's archives to use to prepare for hearings and the like. That and > trial, though I've never done a real one, I think I can deal with. The big > obstacle at the moment is calendars. Standing in for a number of > attorneys, > one prosecutor might have 50 or more cases on the table for the morning > calendar, dealing with everything from first appearances to judgment and > sentencing. The big issue is that I can't read the notes on the docket > sheets. Has anyone ever been in my position or something like it? > I'm thinking a reader might be the only possible solution. We would have > to > go over cases when the calendar was prepared and he or she would have to > be > there with me if questions arose during court. I'm not sure how viable > that > is. > Assuming all of that is viable. Does anyone have any advice on how to > bring > up the need for a reader with a potential employer? Is that a cost they > incur for hiring me? It has been suggested, in a speculative way, that I > might have better luck getting such support at a large metro office rather > than out in the smaller counties where I've worked. Any thoughts on that? > I like to think of myself as being able to come up with solutions to such > issues, but I'm aware of potential limitations. Any guidance you could > provide would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > Aser > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Mar 24 20:43:34 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:43:34 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Keith -- Your anecdote about stumbling over a chair and wires in a moot courtroom reminded me of one of my experiences in a moot court situation with "real" jurors and judge. It was a NITA course in San Francisco. My opposing counsel were associates from another office in my law firm. While I was in the well conducting an examination, one of my opposing counsel moved his brief bag into the aisle in between the two counsel tables. If I had not been using my cane, I would have tripped on the bag because it had not been there when I had entered the aisle to go into the well. As it was, I just detected the bag with my cane and stepped over it without a hitch. At the end of the trial, one of the comments the judge made to me was that I was very graceful in the courtroom. There were other comments I would rather have had, but I took it and thought to myself, "If you only knew how ungraceful I could have been if I hadn't been using my cane." Noel nightingale -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of K V Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:35 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice Hi Kate, I am in a similar situation. My vision is progressively getting worse by field of vision. Also, my central vision has faded such that more light is needed for me to see. I began to use a cane a few years ago and various people responded with everything from disbelief to skepticism to, quite frankly, hostility. This has been very difficult to overcome. My cane trainer suggested that I use the cane all the time. In retrospect he may have been sensitive to how people perceive the partial use of a cane. At first I tried to use the cane all the time but it felt silly when I was walking in a familiar environment with minimal traffic and nice flat sidewalks in bright sunlight. So, I started to selectively use the cane. Regarding court room appearances, I have not yet actually practiced in court room. I am taking the bar this July. However, I did have a moot court class which was presided over by Judge Sullivan in the 2nd Circuit. The classes met in the Moynihan courtroom in Manhattan. It was a privilege. Anyways, I emailed the judge to let him know that I did have vision problems. He was very courteous. By the end of the semester I think I ran into a chair and stumbled over taped down wires - but otherwise it was uneventful. The witness chair steps were a pain though. I never did use a cane in the courtroom. For my final trial I showed up about an hour early and basically walked the court room to memorize where everything was. I walked from the lecturn to the witness stand to my table a few times. The trial went fine without any tripping or stumbling. I do think the judge was concerned by my use of extra extra large fonts in my notes as the jury could have read the notes if I held them up. One thing I was thinking of doing was creating a boilerplate letter that included my field of vision plot and sharing it with the judge and opposing counsel prior to any court appearances. I am assuming the opposing counsel wouldn't take advantage of the information and move boxes or chairs around in the courtroom during arguments or witness examinations. I suspect a judge would say something if she detected that kind of tactic. I am curious what suggestions others have. If you want to discuss this more offline, please feel free to contact me. Warmest regards, Keith Vick > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:41:22 -0400 > From: kc2992a at student.american.edu > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > Hi all, > > I really appreciate all of your responses to my question. I am one of > those people who uses a cane only sometimes, because I don't have to. > Therefore, I have come into situation when I have had my cane with me > and people have commented that I don't act like I am blind, so why do > I need to carry a cane; and also situations in which I didn't have my > cane and was unable to explain that there was something I couldn't see and why. > > Scott, I appreciate your foresight about what life will be like > working in a courtroom. I echo the question about how you approach a new judge. > > Best, > Kate > > On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:47 PM, RJ Sandefur > > wrote: > > > Scott, How do you deal with a new Judge? Do you walk into the > > courtroom, and explaine to the judge you're blind, and need this or > > that? How do you do it? This sighted judge has never delbt with a blind lawyer before. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > > > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:54 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > > > > > Katy, I am totally blind and have been so pretty much since the time > > I lost my sight. Therefore, I cannot directly relate with you other > > than to say my wife is in a similar situation. Sometimes, she > > carries her cane and sometimes not. I have noticed that she usually > > does take her cane when we are going somewhere new and plan on > > meeting new people. She finds it easier to explain that she is blind > > and has some residual vision than to deal with people thinking she > > is fully sighted and wondering why she isn't making the best eye > > contact or can't see the signs or can't read name tags or whatever. > > I think she also takes it because she wants to be able to use it in > > unfamiliar locations, especially at night and more especially to > > deal with stairs and other things she doesn't see too well. > > > > Ultimately, I guess it depends on which issue you'd rather have. I > > think it also depends on why it is you choose not to carry a cane. > > These are questions with which I cannot help you much. > > > > However, I can tell you that as an attorney, you are very likely > > going to be in situations that are pressure packed and move along > > quite quickly. In a courtroom, do you want a Judge or jury wondering > > why you aren't exactly acting like the other lawyers in the room? > > Would it be easier or harder to explain that you are legally blind > > and that is why you aren't able to read things or see objects or > > whatever? Or would it be easier to carry a cane alerting the judge > > and counsel that you are blind allowing you to explain later that > > you can see some. > > > > Now, I know you sent off your post not wondering whether you should > > carry a cane or not but rather asking the question of how you should > > explain yourself. I guess my first advice is to speak with others > > who are similarly situated. We have such blind lawyers on this list. > > Charlie Brown, our First Vice President, has quite a bit of residual > > vision yet has always carried a cane. I am sure there are others who > > don't. > > > > I wish you luck with this dilemma and I hope we can be helpful. > > Thanks, > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you > > may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you > > received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) > > 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from > > your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the > > Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" < > > kc2992a at student.american.edu> > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37 PM > > Subject: [blindlaw] advice > > > > > > Hi List! > >> > >> I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced > >> this dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in > >> my career, unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing > >> this problem to > >> you: > >> > >> Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. > >> Not > >> surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's > >> name and either place of work or study to wear during the event, to > >> help initiate networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the > >> need to carry a cane with me. However, I can't see other people;s > >> name tags, and can't comment or respond to what is written on them. > >> I would like to be able to ask people who they are and where they > >> work without seeming like I can't read. Has anyone perfected a > >> introduction by which they can do this? > >> > >> I would appreciate any thoughts. > >> > >> -- > >> Kathryn CARROLL > >> American University > >> 631 521 3018 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for > >> blindlaw: > >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre% > >> 40labarrelaw.com > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for > > blindlaw: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac > > ksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for > > blindlaw: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40 > > student.american.edu > > > > > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > American University > 631 521 3018 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keith-vick%4 > 0msn.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From keith-vick at msn.com Wed Mar 24 21:10:29 2010 From: keith-vick at msn.com (K V) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:10:29 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Hi Noel, Thank you. Good point. I will use the cane if I ever make appearances in the courtroom. Thanks, Keith Vick > From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:43:34 -0500 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > Keith -- > > Your anecdote about stumbling over a chair and wires in a moot courtroom reminded me of one of my experiences in a moot court situation with "real" jurors and judge. It was a NITA course in San Francisco. My opposing counsel were associates from another office in my law firm. > > While I was in the well conducting an examination, one of my opposing counsel moved his brief bag into the aisle in between the two counsel tables. If I had not been using my cane, I would have tripped on the bag because it had not been there when I had entered the aisle to go into the well. As it was, I just detected the bag with my cane and stepped over it without a hitch. > > At the end of the trial, one of the comments the judge made to me was that I was very graceful in the courtroom. There were other comments I would rather have had, but I took it and thought to myself, "If you only knew how ungraceful I could have been if I hadn't been using my cane." > > Noel nightingale > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of K V > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:35 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > > Hi Kate, > > > > I am in a similar situation. My vision is progressively getting worse by field of vision. Also, my central vision has faded such that more light is needed for me to see. I began to use a cane a few years ago and various people responded with everything from disbelief to skepticism to, quite frankly, hostility. This has been very difficult to overcome. > > > > My cane trainer suggested that I use the cane all the time. In retrospect he may have been sensitive to how people perceive the partial use of a cane. At first I tried to use the cane all the time but it felt silly when I was walking in a familiar environment with minimal traffic and nice flat sidewalks in bright sunlight. So, I started to selectively use the cane. > > > > Regarding court room appearances, I have not yet actually practiced in court room. I am taking the bar this July. However, I did have a moot court class which was presided over by Judge Sullivan in the 2nd Circuit. The classes met in the Moynihan courtroom in Manhattan. It was a privilege. Anyways, I emailed the judge to let him know that I did have vision problems. He was very courteous. By the end of the semester I think I ran into a chair and stumbled over taped down wires - but otherwise it was uneventful. The witness chair steps were a pain though. I never did use a cane in the courtroom. > > > > For my final trial I showed up about an hour early and basically walked the court room to memorize where everything was. I walked from the lecturn to the witness stand to my table a few times. The trial went fine without any tripping or stumbling. I do think the judge was concerned by my use of extra extra large fonts in my notes as the jury could have read the notes if I held them up. > > > > One thing I was thinking of doing was creating a boilerplate letter that included my field of vision plot and sharing it with the judge and opposing counsel prior to any court appearances. I am assuming the opposing counsel wouldn't take advantage of the information and move boxes or chairs around in the courtroom during arguments or witness examinations. I suspect a judge would say something if she detected that kind of tactic. > > > > I am curious what suggestions others have. If you want to discuss this more offline, please feel free to contact me. > > > > Warmest regards, > > > > Keith Vick > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:41:22 -0400 > > From: kc2992a at student.american.edu > > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > > > Hi all, > > > > I really appreciate all of your responses to my question. I am one of > > those people who uses a cane only sometimes, because I don't have to. > > Therefore, I have come into situation when I have had my cane with me > > and people have commented that I don't act like I am blind, so why do > > I need to carry a cane; and also situations in which I didn't have my > > cane and was unable to explain that there was something I couldn't see and why. > > > > Scott, I appreciate your foresight about what life will be like > > working in a courtroom. I echo the question about how you approach a new judge. > > > > Best, > > Kate > > > > On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:47 PM, RJ Sandefur > > > > wrote: > > > > > Scott, How do you deal with a new Judge? Do you walk into the > > > courtroom, and explaine to the judge you're blind, and need this or > > > that? How do you do it? This sighted judge has never delbt with a blind lawyer before. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > > > > > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:54 PM > > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > > > > > > > > Katy, I am totally blind and have been so pretty much since the time > > > I lost my sight. Therefore, I cannot directly relate with you other > > > than to say my wife is in a similar situation. Sometimes, she > > > carries her cane and sometimes not. I have noticed that she usually > > > does take her cane when we are going somewhere new and plan on > > > meeting new people. She finds it easier to explain that she is blind > > > and has some residual vision than to deal with people thinking she > > > is fully sighted and wondering why she isn't making the best eye > > > contact or can't see the signs or can't read name tags or whatever. > > > I think she also takes it because she wants to be able to use it in > > > unfamiliar locations, especially at night and more especially to > > > deal with stairs and other things she doesn't see too well. > > > > > > Ultimately, I guess it depends on which issue you'd rather have. I > > > think it also depends on why it is you choose not to carry a cane. > > > These are questions with which I cannot help you much. > > > > > > However, I can tell you that as an attorney, you are very likely > > > going to be in situations that are pressure packed and move along > > > quite quickly. In a courtroom, do you want a Judge or jury wondering > > > why you aren't exactly acting like the other lawyers in the room? > > > Would it be easier or harder to explain that you are legally blind > > > and that is why you aren't able to read things or see objects or > > > whatever? Or would it be easier to carry a cane alerting the judge > > > and counsel that you are blind allowing you to explain later that > > > you can see some. > > > > > > Now, I know you sent off your post not wondering whether you should > > > carry a cane or not but rather asking the question of how you should > > > explain yourself. I guess my first advice is to speak with others > > > who are similarly situated. We have such blind lawyers on this list. > > > Charlie Brown, our First Vice President, has quite a bit of residual > > > vision yet has always carried a cane. I am sure there are others who > > > don't. > > > > > > I wish you luck with this dilemma and I hope we can be helpful. > > > Thanks, > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you > > > may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you > > > received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) > > > 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from > > > your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the > > > Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" < > > > kc2992a at student.american.edu> > > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37 PM > > > Subject: [blindlaw] advice > > > > > > > > > Hi List! > > >> > > >> I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced > > >> this dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in > > >> my career, unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing > > >> this problem to > > >> you: > > >> > > >> Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. > > >> Not > > >> surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's > > >> name and either place of work or study to wear during the event, to > > >> help initiate networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the > > >> need to carry a cane with me. However, I can't see other people;s > > >> name tags, and can't comment or respond to what is written on them. > > >> I would like to be able to ask people who they are and where they > > >> work without seeming like I can't read. Has anyone perfected a > > >> introduction by which they can do this? > > >> > > >> I would appreciate any thoughts. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Kathryn CARROLL > > >> American University > > >> 631 521 3018 > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> blindlaw mailing list > > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > >> for > > >> blindlaw: > > >> > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre% > > >> 40labarrelaw.com > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > blindlaw mailing list > > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > > for > > > blindlaw: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac > > > ksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > blindlaw mailing list > > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > > for > > > blindlaw: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40 > > > student.american.edu > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Kathryn CARROLL > > American University > > 631 521 3018 > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keith-vick%4 > > 0msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keith-vick%40msn.com From michael.steven.n at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 03:42:26 2010 From: michael.steven.n at gmail.com (Michael S. Nunez) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:42:26 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Question regarding accessibility of law firm time entry and document management software Message-ID: <4bac2d28.9653f10a.4781.1c48@mx.google.com> Hello Everyone, I am a legally blind second year law student who will be summering this year at a large law firm. I am currently arranging my accommodations at the firm, and I write to ask whether any of you have used the Humming Bird document management program or DTE, a time entry system. If you have used either program, I would appreciate hearing about whether you were able to use these programs with JAWS or some other screen reader. Thank You, Michael From rfarber at jw.com Fri Mar 26 04:48:14 2010 From: rfarber at jw.com (Farber, Randy) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 23:48:14 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Question regarding accessibility of law firm time entryand document management software In-Reply-To: <4bac2d28.9653f10a.4781.1c48@mx.google.com> References: <4bac2d28.9653f10a.4781.1c48@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8EA167BDF4483449B67BBE3BFCB648F1112EBE5A@pdc-mail01.jwllp.com> We use Humming Bird. The current version is called DM. It works a little bit with JAWS. You need to know what you want to do and what it is reading to understand it all of the time. Contact me off line and I can discuss in more detail. Randy Randal S. Farber Jackson Walker L.L.P. 1401 McKinney, Suite 1900 Houston, Texas 77010 713-752-4241 - Phone 713-308-4120 - Fax RFarber at JW.Com -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael S. Nunez Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:42 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Question regarding accessibility of law firm time entryand document management software Hello Everyone, I am a legally blind second year law student who will be summering this year at a large law firm. I am currently arranging my accommodations at the firm, and I write to ask whether any of you have used the Humming Bird document management program or DTE, a time entry system. If you have used either program, I would appreciate hearing about whether you were able to use these programs with JAWS or some other screen reader. Thank You, Michael _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.c om -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Farber, Randal S .vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 425 bytes Desc: Farber, Randal S .vcf URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Mar 26 16:30:51 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:30:51 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Question regarding accessibility of law firm time entry and document management software In-Reply-To: <4bac2d28.9653f10a.4781.1c48@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Michael: My office uses the Hummingbird document management program. Currently, while the rest of my office uses the Vista operating system, I remain in a dinosaur operating system, Windows 2000, because Office 2007, Vista, JAWS, and the Hummingbird document management program don't work together. There are bad things about Hummingbird even using Office 2003 and windows 2000 but I have found workarounds that involve using a reader. Please call me if you wish to discuss further. You may reach me in Seattle at (206) 607-1632. Noel nightingale -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael S. Nunez Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:42 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Question regarding accessibility of law firm time entry and document management software Hello Everyone, I am a legally blind second year law student who will be summering this year at a large law firm. I am currently arranging my accommodations at the firm, and I write to ask whether any of you have used the Humming Bird document management program or DTE, a time entry system. If you have used either program, I would appreciate hearing about whether you were able to use these programs with JAWS or some other screen reader. Thank You, Michael _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From jsorozco at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 02:26:20 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 22:26:20 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane Message-ID: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> Hello all, Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now a dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my cane black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane all the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if my cane were not white? Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth operator with the brand-new black magic stick. Best, Joe Orozco "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From kc2992a at student.american.edu Sun Mar 28 02:30:59 2010 From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 22:30:59 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> Message-ID: <2fdbeb321003271930j6058e463yf55cfe6d0118b19a@mail.gmail.com> I have no idea, but I'll paint mine too! -Kate Carroll On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 10:26 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Hello all, > > Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National > Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with > the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take > them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the > elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now > a > dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. > > So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a > different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short > of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my > cane > black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess > the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane > all > the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone > actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if > my cane were not white? > > Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of > multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my > outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* > > Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth > operator with the brand-new black magic stick. > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 04:26:49 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 00:26:49 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <2fdbeb321003271930j6058e463yf55cfe6d0118b19a@mail.gmail.com> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> <2fdbeb321003271930j6058e463yf55cfe6d0118b19a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d1003272126w630f97b4u8250bd8fca547d7a@mail.gmail.com> Huh? Pimp my cane? This is worse than Pimp My Ride. Let's do a TV show about it and see if it gets any ratings besides Pimp My Ride. My brother loves that show anyway. Beth On 3/27/10, Katy Carroll wrote: > I have no idea, but I'll paint mine too! > > -Kate Carroll > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 10:26 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National >> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with >> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take >> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the >> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now >> a >> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >> >> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >> different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short >> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my >> cane >> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess >> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane >> all >> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone >> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if >> my cane were not white? >> >> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* >> >> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth >> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu >> > > > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > American University > 631 521 3018 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 07:48:33 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 01:48:33 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> Message-ID: <07B6E9343FE04EED90F7590CE3F4E021@azizaLatD430> I'm guessing thaWell, lets not forget that some of the folding canes have red on them, so what happens there? Aziza ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Cc: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:26 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Hello all, > > Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National > Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with > the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take > them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the > elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now > a > dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. > > So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a > different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short > of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my > cane > black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess > the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane > all > the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone > actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if > my cane were not white? > > Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of > multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my > outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* > > Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth > operator with the brand-new black magic stick. > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com From joramsey at cox.net Sun Mar 28 08:17:46 2010 From: joramsey at cox.net (John Ramsey) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 04:17:46 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <07B6E9343FE04EED90F7590CE3F4E021@azizaLatD430> Message-ID: <8006D2BA9A15432CA8379B1CDC964516@noneeb869fea9a> Here in Florida that idea would be in violation of Florida's White Cane Law. John A. Ramsey Jr., P.A. P.O. Box 6063 Gainesville, FL 32627 Phone: (352) 505-6642 Fax: (352) 240-6453 This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) 505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our control. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aziza Cano Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 3:49 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane I'm guessing thaWell, lets not forget that some of the folding canes have red on them, so what happens there? Aziza ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Cc: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:26 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Hello all, > > Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the > National Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber > glass types with the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In > fact, I promptly take them off and lose them, and I much prefer these > to the dorky ones with the elastic bands, no offense if you happen to > sport these. Besides, I am now a dork, because since that's all they > had, that's all I got. > > So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a > different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and > short of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about > painting my cane black or blue or some sweeter combination than the > dull white, and I guess the point is not so much whether this is > acceptable. I'll paint my cane all > the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone > actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if > my cane were not white? > > Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of > multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my > outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. > *grin* > > Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the > smooth operator with the brand-new black magic stick. > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at > all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor% 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 28 09:43:55 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 02:43:55 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> Message-ID: In many states the White Cane is the only cane that is recognized to show that a person is blind. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Cc: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:26 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Hello all, > > Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National > Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with > the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take > them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the > elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now > a > dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. > > So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a > different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short > of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my > cane > black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess > the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane > all > the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone > actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if > my cane were not white? > > Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of > multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my > outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* > > Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth > operator with the brand-new black magic stick. > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 28 10:03:48 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 03:03:48 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <07B6E9343FE04EED90F7590CE3F4E021@azizaLatD430> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> <07B6E9343FE04EED90F7590CE3F4E021@azizaLatD430> Message-ID: Generally the white cane with the red tip is what is standard in many locales. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aziza Cano" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > I'm guessing thaWell, lets not forget that some of the folding canes have > red on them, so what happens there? > Aziza > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Cc: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:26 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> Hello all, >> >> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the >> National >> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with >> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take >> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with >> the >> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am >> now a >> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >> >> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >> different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and >> short >> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my >> cane >> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I >> guess >> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane >> all >> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone >> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident >> if >> my cane were not white? >> >> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* >> >> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the >> smooth >> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From dwilson.lists at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 11:07:40 2010 From: dwilson.lists at gmail.com (Derek Wilson) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 20:07:40 +0900 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> <07B6E9343FE04EED90F7590CE3F4E021@azizaLatD430> Message-ID: <6152341003280407v4d1e947cp5c2df7610f78153d@mail.gmail.com> The white cane with the red stripe near the tip is standard in North America. In Asia and many (if not all) parts of Europe, I believe the all-white cane is standard. In the movie Scent of a Woman, Al Pacino's character used an all-black cane, which I have seen at online retailers in both Canada and some states. Never came across a rainbow cane, but have often thought of doing a red-and-white candy cane to help others celebrate the mid-winter festive season. Cheers, Derek Wilson On 3/28/10, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: > Generally the white cane with the red tip is what is standard in many > locales. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aziza Cano" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 12:48 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> I'm guessing thaWell, lets not forget that some of the folding canes have >> red on them, so what happens there? >> Aziza >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Cc: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:26 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the >>> National >>> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with >>> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take >>> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with >>> the >>> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am >>> now a >>> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >>> >>> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >>> different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and >>> short >>> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my >>> cane >>> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I >>> guess >>> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane >>> all >>> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone >>> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident >>> if >>> my cane were not white? >>> >>> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >>> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >>> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* >>> >>> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the >>> smooth >>> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe Orozco >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gmail.com > From lists at zufelt.ca Sun Mar 28 11:22:39 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 07:22:39 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> Message-ID: Good morning, In Ontario the white cane is standard, and is arguably reflective in poor lighting. As a matter of fact, it is a provincial offence to use a white cane in Ontario if you're not blind. Part of the Blind Persons Rights Act (a piece of legislation with which I completely disagree). Restriction on use of white cane 3. No person, other than a blind person, shall carry or use a cane or walking stick, the major part of which is white, in any public place, public thoroughfare or public conveyance. R.S.O. 1990, c. B.7, s. 3. Thanks, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-03-28, at 5:43 AM, wrote: > In many states the White Cane is the only cane that is recognized to show that a person is blind. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Cc: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:26 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> Hello all, >> >> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National >> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with >> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take >> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the >> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now a >> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >> >> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >> different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short >> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my cane >> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess >> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane all >> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone >> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if >> my cane were not white? >> >> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* >> >> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth >> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 15:33:04 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 10:33:04 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> Message-ID: <01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you should. There is a company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it because the government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the universal sign of blindness. I really liked reading this post. Will -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane Hello all, Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now a dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my cane black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane all the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if my cane were not white? Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth operator with the brand-new black magic stick. Best, Joe Orozco "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 17:31:17 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 13:31:17 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> <01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> Message-ID: <0451A641EC8A476F9CE87CF59875E27E@hometwxakonvzn> Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He learned this idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for the discussion of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you should. There is > a > company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility > instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it because the > government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the > universal sign of blindness. > > I really liked reading this post. > > Will > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > Hello all, > > Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National > Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with > the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take > them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the > elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now > a > dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. > > So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a > different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short > of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my > cane > black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess > the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane > all > the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone > actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if > my cane were not white? > > Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of > multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my > outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* > > Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth > operator with the brand-new black magic stick. > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From lists at zufelt.ca Sun Mar 28 19:26:48 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:26:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <0451A641EC8A476F9CE87CF59875E27E@hometwxakonvzn> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> <01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> <0451A641EC8A476F9CE87CF59875E27E@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <5F559B00-7225-4230-B354-8FACD6089994@zufelt.ca> Dear RJ, who I have never met; I write in hopes that your post was incredibly dry sarcasm, however, if it was not. 1. If you have read this entire thread you will notice that issues related to law / regulation have been discussed. 2. Thank you for the logical fallacy of appealing to authority. 3. Thank you for supporting your argument with nothing other than a personally biased perspective. Thanks, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-03-28, at 1:31 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He learned this idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for the discussion of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you should. There is a >> company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility >> instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it because the >> government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the >> universal sign of blindness. >> >> I really liked reading this post. >> >> Will >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> Hello all, >> >> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National >> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with >> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take >> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the >> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now a >> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >> >> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >> different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short >> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my cane >> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess >> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane all >> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone >> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if >> my cane were not white? >> >> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* >> >> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth >> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From timandvickie at hotmail.com Sun Mar 28 19:28:03 2010 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:28:03 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <0451A641EC8A476F9CE87CF59875E27E@hometwxakonvzn> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus>, <01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com>, <0451A641EC8A476F9CE87CF59875E27E@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: if you read his original email you would realize it WAS about blindness adn the law. he asked about the legality o that action > From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 13:31:17 -0400 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He learned this > idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for the discussion > of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "WB" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > > > Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you should. There is > > a > > company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility > > instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it because the > > government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the > > universal sign of blindness. > > > > I really liked reading this post. > > > > Will > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > Behalf Of Joe Orozco > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM > > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > > Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > > Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > > > Hello all, > > > > Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National > > Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with > > the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take > > them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the > > elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now > > a > > dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. > > > > So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a > > different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short > > of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my > > cane > > black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess > > the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane > > all > > the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone > > actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if > > my cane were not white? > > > > Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of > > multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my > > outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* > > > > Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth > > operator with the brand-new black magic stick. > > > > Best, > > > > Joe Orozco > > > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature > > database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > > il.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_2 From jsorozco at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 19:33:28 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:33:28 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <0451A641EC8A476F9CE87CF59875E27E@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <1FB09BD8A9D94C9CA8322D4D58538622@Rufus> Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in light-hearted tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now and then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me can't be any worse than what it already is. *smirk* Joe Orozco "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He learned this idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for the discussion of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you should. There is > a > company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility > instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it because the > government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the > universal sign of blindness. > > I really liked reading this post. > > Will > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > Hello all, > > Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National > Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with > the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take > them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the > elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now > a > dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. > > So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a > different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short > of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my > cane > black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess > the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane > all > the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone > actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if > my cane were not white? > > Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of > multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my > outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* > > Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth > operator with the brand-new black magic stick. > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv erse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin gjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From AZNOR99 at aol.com Sun Mar 28 20:47:53 2010 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:47:53 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane Message-ID: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com> Hi Joe, How are you? Well, I hope. I was very amused in reading your post about pimping your cane. I honestly don't know the answer to your question. However, I suspect that, given that most state laws about canes for blind people reference the "white cane" specifically, you might come across someone who will try to claim the laws don't apply to you. You also might confuse people. However, I suggest you reach out to two Federationists who've used different colored canes. Stacy Servenka had a really awesome pink cane a few years back. Mazen Istanbuli, a professor from Illinois, actually had a gold-plated cane. Let me know what you figure out - I'm thinking of dying my own lavender and adding really girly sparkles. If nothing else, it'll prevent people from "accidentally" walking away with my cane at Conventions. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 3/28/2010 4:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jsorozco at gmail.com writes: Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in light-hearted tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now and then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me can't be any worse than what it already is. *smirk* Joe Orozco "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He learned this idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for the discussion of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you should. There is > a > company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility > instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it because the > government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the > universal sign of blindness. > > I really liked reading this post. > > Will > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > Hello all, > > Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National > Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with > the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take > them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the > elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now > a > dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. > > So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a > different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short > of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my > cane > black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess > the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane > all > the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone > actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if > my cane were not white? > > Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of > multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my > outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* > > Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth > operator with the brand-new black magic stick. > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv erse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin gjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 21:06:25 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:06:25 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com> Message-ID: <710F83CCF3B34483A0F8DE57149C200E@azizaLatD430> Well, people are confused by the white cane too. I had a woman yell at me because she did not know I was blind due to the fact that she mistook my cane for a ski pole. Why I would be carrying a ski pole around campus, I do not know. Aziza ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > Hi Joe, > > How are you? Well, I hope. > > I was very amused in reading your post about pimping your cane. I > honestly don't know the answer to your question. However, I suspect that, > given > that most state laws about canes for blind people reference the "white > cane" > specifically, you might come across someone who will try to claim the laws > don't apply to you. You also might confuse people. > > However, I suggest you reach out to two Federationists who've used > different colored canes. Stacy Servenka had a really awesome pink cane a > few > years back. Mazen Istanbuli, a professor from Illinois, actually had a > gold-plated cane. > > Let me know what you figure out - I'm thinking of dying my own lavender > and > adding really girly sparkles. If nothing else, it'll prevent people from > "accidentally" walking away with my cane at Conventions. > > Regards, > Ronza > > > > > > In a message dated 3/28/2010 4:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jsorozco at gmail.com writes: > > Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in light-hearted > tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now > and > then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me > can't > be any worse than what it already is. *smirk* > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He > learned this > idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for > the discussion > of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "WB" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you > should. There is >> a >> company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility >> instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it > because the >> government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the >> universal sign of blindness. >> >> I really liked reading this post. >> >> Will >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> Hello all, >> >> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called > the National >> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber > glass types with >> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I > promptly take >> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky > ones with the >> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. > Besides, I am now >> a >> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >> >> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >> different color? I think the little elastic band is > mortifying, and short >> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about > painting my >> cane >> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull > white, and I guess >> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll > paint my cane >> all >> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, > could someone >> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of > an accident if >> my cane were not white? >> >> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine > thide. *grin* >> >> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look > for the smooth >> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up > their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv > erse08%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin > gjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com From rumpole at roadrunner.com Sun Mar 28 21:20:29 2010 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 17:20:29 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com> <710F83CCF3B34483A0F8DE57149C200E@azizaLatD430> Message-ID: Now that is interesting - I can say that the most facsinating thing to happen to me was when a clerk at a Home Depot store wanted to get a price on it so that they could charge me for it. the cashier really did think I had a piece of tubing that I was buying when I got to the checkout. For some people, there are just no words. But I must admit I really do like the idea of a gold-plated cane. Of course, I'd have to earn more money than I am right now to afford it, but that is really an intriguing idea. This could be a new business - What about a carved Dragon's head as a hand-grip? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aziza Cano" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Well, people are confused by the white cane too. I had a woman yell at me > because she did not know I was blind due to the fact that she mistook my > cane for a ski pole. Why I would be carrying a ski pole around campus, I > do > not know. > > Aziza > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 2:47 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> >> Hi Joe, >> >> How are you? Well, I hope. >> >> I was very amused in reading your post about pimping your cane. I >> honestly don't know the answer to your question. However, I suspect >> that, >> given >> that most state laws about canes for blind people reference the "white >> cane" >> specifically, you might come across someone who will try to claim the >> laws >> don't apply to you. You also might confuse people. >> >> However, I suggest you reach out to two Federationists who've used >> different colored canes. Stacy Servenka had a really awesome pink cane a >> few >> years back. Mazen Istanbuli, a professor from Illinois, actually had a >> gold-plated cane. >> >> Let me know what you figure out - I'm thinking of dying my own lavender >> and >> adding really girly sparkles. If nothing else, it'll prevent people from >> "accidentally" walking away with my cane at Conventions. >> >> Regards, >> Ronza >> >> >> >> >> >> In a message dated 3/28/2010 4:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> jsorozco at gmail.com writes: >> >> Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in >> light-hearted >> tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now >> and >> then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me >> can't >> be any worse than what it already is. *smirk* >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He >> learned this >> idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for >> the discussion >> of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "WB" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you >> should. There is >>> a >>> company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility >>> instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it >> because the >>> government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the >>> universal sign of blindness. >>> >>> I really liked reading this post. >>> >>> Will >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called >> the National >>> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber >> glass types with >>> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I >> promptly take >>> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky >> ones with the >>> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. >> Besides, I am now >>> a >>> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >>> >>> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >>> different color? I think the little elastic band is >> mortifying, and short >>> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about >> painting my >>> cane >>> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull >> white, and I guess >>> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll >> paint my cane >>> all >>> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, >> could someone >>> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of >> an accident if >>> my cane were not white? >>> >>> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >>> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >>> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine >> thide. *grin* >>> >>> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look >> for the smooth >>> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe Orozco >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >> their sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv >> erse08%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin >> gjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >> co%40gmail.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4980 (20100328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2775 - Release Date: 03/28/10 06:32:00 From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 21:27:12 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 17:27:12 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com> Message-ID: <31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn> David, This is off topic for this list! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > Hi Joe, > > How are you? Well, I hope. > > I was very amused in reading your post about pimping your cane. I > honestly don't know the answer to your question. However, I suspect that, > given > that most state laws about canes for blind people reference the "white > cane" > specifically, you might come across someone who will try to claim the laws > don't apply to you. You also might confuse people. > > However, I suggest you reach out to two Federationists who've used > different colored canes. Stacy Servenka had a really awesome pink cane a > few > years back. Mazen Istanbuli, a professor from Illinois, actually had a > gold-plated cane. > > Let me know what you figure out - I'm thinking of dying my own lavender > and > adding really girly sparkles. If nothing else, it'll prevent people from > "accidentally" walking away with my cane at Conventions. > > Regards, > Ronza > > > > > > In a message dated 3/28/2010 4:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jsorozco at gmail.com writes: > > Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in light-hearted > tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now > and > then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me > can't > be any worse than what it already is. *smirk* > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He > learned this > idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for > the discussion > of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "WB" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you > should. There is >> a >> company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility >> instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it > because the >> government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the >> universal sign of blindness. >> >> I really liked reading this post. >> >> Will >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> Hello all, >> >> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called > the National >> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber > glass types with >> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I > promptly take >> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky > ones with the >> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. > Besides, I am now >> a >> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >> >> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >> different color? I think the little elastic band is > mortifying, and short >> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about > painting my >> cane >> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull > white, and I guess >> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll > paint my cane >> all >> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, > could someone >> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of > an accident if >> my cane were not white? >> >> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine > thide. *grin* >> >> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look > for the smooth >> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up > their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv > erse08%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin > gjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 21:31:05 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:31:05 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com> <31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: I don't agree. He asked about the white cane "law," applying to decorated canes, or canes with altered canes. Can not the blind lawyers shed some light on to this for us? ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 3:27 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > David, This is off topic for this list! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 4:47 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> >> Hi Joe, >> >> How are you? Well, I hope. >> >> I was very amused in reading your post about pimping your cane. I >> honestly don't know the answer to your question. However, I suspect >> that, given >> that most state laws about canes for blind people reference the "white >> cane" >> specifically, you might come across someone who will try to claim the >> laws >> don't apply to you. You also might confuse people. >> >> However, I suggest you reach out to two Federationists who've used >> different colored canes. Stacy Servenka had a really awesome pink cane a >> few >> years back. Mazen Istanbuli, a professor from Illinois, actually had a >> gold-plated cane. >> >> Let me know what you figure out - I'm thinking of dying my own lavender >> and >> adding really girly sparkles. If nothing else, it'll prevent people from >> "accidentally" walking away with my cane at Conventions. >> >> Regards, >> Ronza >> >> >> >> >> >> In a message dated 3/28/2010 4:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> jsorozco at gmail.com writes: >> >> Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in >> light-hearted >> tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now >> and >> then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me >> can't >> be any worse than what it already is. *smirk* >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He >> learned this >> idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for >> the discussion >> of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "WB" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you >> should. There is >>> a >>> company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility >>> instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it >> because the >>> government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the >>> universal sign of blindness. >>> >>> I really liked reading this post. >>> >>> Will >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called >> the National >>> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber >> glass types with >>> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I >> promptly take >>> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky >> ones with the >>> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. >> Besides, I am now >>> a >>> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >>> >>> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >>> different color? I think the little elastic band is >> mortifying, and short >>> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about >> painting my >>> cane >>> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull >> white, and I guess >>> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll >> paint my cane >>> all >>> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, >> could someone >>> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of >> an accident if >>> my cane were not white? >>> >>> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >>> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >>> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine >> thide. *grin* >>> >>> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look >> for the smooth >>> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe Orozco >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >> their sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv >> erse08%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin >> gjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >> co%40gmail.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4980 (20100328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 28 21:39:37 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 14:39:37 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> Message-ID: <2963EBA6-5903-4599-A259-3D2A3EAA1280@sbcglobal.net> motorist used to use a cedar walking staff instead of a cane, and was told by a cop that, if I was ever in a car accident, it could be claimed that, with my shades on and a staff and not a cane, it could be argued that the motorist didn't know I was blind and didn't take extra care. However, I pointed out that the motorist is always at fault for not yielding to a pedestrian. Cop didn't seem to impressed. So. now we *have* to carry a *white* cane, to define us as being blind in the eyes of the law. A case of the symbol becoming the law. I, too, would much prefer to use something other than a white cane, in the event that I didn't have a guide dog... Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 28 21:51:02 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 14:51:02 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> <01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> Message-ID: I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't understand this. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Sun Mar 28 23:03:15 2010 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 18:03:15 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com> References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com> Message-ID: <20100328230315.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> I think Barbara Pierce uses canes with different color grips to match her outfits. I don't think I would go anything beyond that, though I must admit that in my younger days I had been thinking of getting a silver wolf's head. But that would be too cumbersome, and not very professional looking. Ray Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: unknown AZNOR99 at aol.com To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Sunday, Mar 28, 2010 16:13:57 Subject: Re: [bllaw] Pimp My Cane > > > > Hi Joe, > > How are you? Well, I hope. > > I was very amused in reading your post about pimping your cane. I > honestly don't know the answer to your question. However, I suspect that, given > that most state laws about canes for blind people reference the "white cane" > specifically, you might come across someone who will try to claim the laws > don't apply to you. You also might confuse people. > > However, I suggest you reach out to two Federationists who've used > different colored canes. Stacy Servenka had a really awesome pink cane a few > years back. Mazen Istanbuli, a professor from Illinois, actually had a > gold-plated cane. > > Let me know what you figure out �� I'm thinking of dying my own lavender and > adding really girly sparkles. If nothing else, it'll prevent people from > "accidentally" walking away with my cane at Conventions. > > Regards, > Ronza > > > > > > In a message dated 3/28/2010 4:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jsorozco at gmail.com writes: > > Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in light-hearted > tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now and > then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me > can't > be any worse than what it already is. ininsmirk* > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at alldd0-comSam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [bllaw] Pimp My Cane > > Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He > learned this > idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for > the discussion > of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "WB" > To: "'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM > Subject: Re: [bllaw] Pimp My Cane > > > > Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you > should. There is > > a > > company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility > > instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it > because the > > government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the > > universal sign of blindness. > > > > I really liked reading this post. > > > > Will > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > Behalf Of Joe Orozco > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM > > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > > Cc: 'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List' > > Subject: [bllaw] Pimp My Cane > > > > Hello all, > > > > Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called > the National > > Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber > glass types with > > the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I > promptly take > > them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky > ones with the > > elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. > Besides, I am now > > a > > dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. > > > > So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a > > different color? I think the little elastic band is > mortifying, and short > > of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about > painting my > > cane > > black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull > white, and I guess > > the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll > paint my cane > > all > > the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, > could someone > > actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of > an accident if > > my cane were not white? > > > > Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of > > multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my > > outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine > thide. iningrin* > > > > Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look > for the smooth > > operator with the brand-new black magic stick. > > > > Best, > > > > Joe Orozco > > > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up > their sleeves, > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at alldd0-comSam Ewing > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature > > database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bllaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > bllaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv > erseblejh%40gma > > il.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bllaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > bllaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin > gjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun Mar 28 22:14:01 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 18:14:01 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn> References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com> <31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Lighten up RJ. steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > David, This is off topic for this list! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 4:47 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> >> Hi Joe, >> >> How are you? Well, I hope. >> >> I was very amused in reading your post about pimping your cane. I >> honestly don't know the answer to your question. However, I suspect >> that, >> given >> that most state laws about canes for blind people reference the "white >> cane" >> specifically, you might come across someone who will try to claim the >> laws >> don't apply to you. You also might confuse people. >> >> However, I suggest you reach out to two Federationists who've used >> different colored canes. Stacy Servenka had a really awesome pink cane a >> few >> years back. Mazen Istanbuli, a professor from Illinois, actually had a >> gold-plated cane. >> >> Let me know what you figure out - I'm thinking of dying my own lavender >> and >> adding really girly sparkles. If nothing else, it'll prevent people from >> "accidentally" walking away with my cane at Conventions. >> >> Regards, >> Ronza >> >> >> >> >> >> In a message dated 3/28/2010 4:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> jsorozco at gmail.com writes: >> >> Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in >> light-hearted >> tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now >> and >> then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me >> can't >> be any worse than what it already is. *smirk* >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He >> learned this >> idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for >> the discussion >> of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "WB" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you >> should. There is >>> a >>> company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility >>> instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it >> because the >>> government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the >>> universal sign of blindness. >>> >>> I really liked reading this post. >>> >>> Will >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called >> the National >>> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber >> glass types with >>> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I >> promptly take >>> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky >> ones with the >>> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. >> Besides, I am now >>> a >>> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >>> >>> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >>> different color? I think the little elastic band is >> mortifying, and short >>> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about >> painting my >>> cane >>> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull >> white, and I guess >>> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll >> paint my cane >>> all >>> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, >> could someone >>> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of >> an accident if >>> my cane were not white? >>> >>> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >>> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >>> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine >> thide. *grin* >>> >>> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look >> for the smooth >>> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe Orozco >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >> their sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv >> erse08%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin >> gjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >> co%40gmail.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4980 (20100328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2776 - Release Date: 03/28/10 18:32:00 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 28 22:16:31 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:16:31 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> Message-ID: that is standard in many jurisdictions. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J. Zufelt" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 4:22 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Good morning, > > In Ontario the white cane is standard, and is arguably reflective in poor > lighting. As a matter of fact, it is a provincial offence to use a white > cane in Ontario if you're not blind. Part of the Blind Persons Rights Act > (a piece of legislation with which I completely disagree). > > Restriction on use of white cane > > 3. No person, other than a blind person, shall carry or use a cane or > walking stick, the major part of which is white, in any public place, > public thoroughfare > or public conveyance. R.S.O. 1990, c. B.7, s. 3. > > Thanks, > Everett Zufelt > http://zufelt.ca > > Follow me on Twitter > http://twitter.com/ezufelt > > View my LinkedIn Profile > http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt > > > > On 2010-03-28, at 5:43 AM, wrote: > >> In many states the White Cane is the only cane that is recognized to show >> that a person is blind. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Cc: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:26 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the >>> National >>> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types >>> with >>> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take >>> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with >>> the >>> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am >>> now a >>> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >>> >>> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >>> different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and >>> short >>> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my >>> cane >>> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I >>> guess >>> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane >>> all >>> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone >>> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident >>> if >>> my cane were not white? >>> >>> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >>> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >>> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* >>> >>> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the >>> smooth >>> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe Orozco >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From lists at zufelt.ca Sun Mar 28 22:17:50 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 18:17:50 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn> References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com> <31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <400FDC6C-10A9-44A0-8A14-F572F2519E37@zufelt.ca> Good afternoon, I am pretty sure that here in Canada there would be no law or regulation against using a cane that is not white, and I can't see any negative consequences other than it being even more misunderstood than a white cane is already. The law in Ontario does preserve the white cane for use by the visually impaired. And, for some reason, likely reactionary, we actually have a provincial offence against anyone pretending to be blind in public by using a white cane. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-03-28, at 5:27 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > David, This is off topic for this list! > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 4:47 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> >> Hi Joe, >> >> How are you? Well, I hope. >> >> I was very amused in reading your post about pimping your cane. I >> honestly don't know the answer to your question. However, I suspect that, given >> that most state laws about canes for blind people reference the "white cane" >> specifically, you might come across someone who will try to claim the laws >> don't apply to you. You also might confuse people. >> >> However, I suggest you reach out to two Federationists who've used >> different colored canes. Stacy Servenka had a really awesome pink cane a few >> years back. Mazen Istanbuli, a professor from Illinois, actually had a >> gold-plated cane. >> >> Let me know what you figure out - I'm thinking of dying my own lavender and >> adding really girly sparkles. If nothing else, it'll prevent people from >> "accidentally" walking away with my cane at Conventions. >> >> Regards, >> Ronza >> >> >> >> >> >> In a message dated 3/28/2010 4:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> jsorozco at gmail.com writes: >> >> Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in light-hearted >> tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now and >> then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me >> can't >> be any worse than what it already is. *smirk* >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He >> learned this >> idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for >> the discussion >> of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "WB" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you >> should. There is >>> a >>> company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility >>> instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it >> because the >>> government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the >>> universal sign of blindness. >>> >>> I really liked reading this post. >>> >>> Will >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called >> the National >>> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber >> glass types with >>> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I >> promptly take >>> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky >> ones with the >>> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. >> Besides, I am now >>> a >>> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >>> >>> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >>> different color? I think the little elastic band is >> mortifying, and short >>> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about >> painting my >>> cane >>> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull >> white, and I guess >>> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll >> paint my cane >>> all >>> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, >> could someone >>> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of >> an accident if >>> my cane were not white? >>> >>> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >>> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >>> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine >> thide. *grin* >>> >>> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look >> for the smooth >>> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe Orozco >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >> their sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv >> erse08%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin >> gjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >> co%40gmail.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4980 (20100328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 28 23:20:48 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:20:48 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus><01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> Message-ID: <58B6ABBB531549C7B3245106DC08C975@spike> Where safety and recognition is concerned I fail to understand the rationale of deviating from the accepted standards. This is the equivalent of a local government deciding to develop its own colors of a system for traffic signal lights. There is nno point in making a fashion statement using a recognized symbol. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks > here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that > matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB > rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming > that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," > whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a bunch > of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of > blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can > alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm > blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a > black cane and give no indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a > purely voluntary basis. I just don't understand this. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 28 23:31:56 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:31:56 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <400FDC6C-10A9-44A0-8A14-F572F2519E37@zufelt.ca> References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com><31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn> <400FDC6C-10A9-44A0-8A14-F572F2519E37@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: <6273CD546E674AA5A65FD6FE1D7DE911@spike> When I lived in Michigan it was against the law to impersonate a blind person, not sure about California though. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J. Zufelt" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Good afternoon, > > I am pretty sure that here in Canada there would be no law or regulation > against using a cane that is not white, and I can't see any negative > consequences other than it being even more misunderstood than a white cane > is already. The law in Ontario does preserve the white cane for use by > the visually impaired. And, for some reason, likely reactionary, we > actually have a provincial offence against anyone pretending to be blind > in public by using a white cane. > > > Everett Zufelt > http://zufelt.ca > > Follow me on Twitter > http://twitter.com/ezufelt > > View my LinkedIn Profile > http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt > > > > On 2010-03-28, at 5:27 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > >> David, This is off topic for this list! >> ----- Original Message ----- From: >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 4:47 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> >>> Hi Joe, >>> >>> How are you? Well, I hope. >>> >>> I was very amused in reading your post about pimping your cane. I >>> honestly don't know the answer to your question. However, I suspect >>> that, given >>> that most state laws about canes for blind people reference the "white >>> cane" >>> specifically, you might come across someone who will try to claim the >>> laws >>> don't apply to you. You also might confuse people. >>> >>> However, I suggest you reach out to two Federationists who've used >>> different colored canes. Stacy Servenka had a really awesome pink cane >>> a few >>> years back. Mazen Istanbuli, a professor from Illinois, actually had a >>> gold-plated cane. >>> >>> Let me know what you figure out - I'm thinking of dying my own lavender >>> and >>> adding really girly sparkles. If nothing else, it'll prevent people >>> from >>> "accidentally" walking away with my cane at Conventions. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Ronza >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 3/28/2010 4:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>> jsorozco at gmail.com writes: >>> >>> Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in >>> light-hearted >>> tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now >>> and >>> then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me >>> can't >>> be any worse than what it already is. *smirk* >>> >>> Joe Orozco >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >>> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>> >>> Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He >>> learned this >>> idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for >>> the discussion >>> of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "WB" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>> >>> >>>> Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you >>> should. There is >>>> a >>>> company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility >>>> instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it >>> because the >>>> government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the >>>> universal sign of blindness. >>>> >>>> I really liked reading this post. >>>> >>>> Will >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM >>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>> Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>>> >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called >>> the National >>>> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber >>> glass types with >>>> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I >>> promptly take >>>> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky >>> ones with the >>>> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. >>> Besides, I am now >>>> a >>>> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >>>> >>>> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >>>> different color? I think the little elastic band is >>> mortifying, and short >>>> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about >>> painting my >>>> cane >>>> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull >>> white, and I guess >>>> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll >>> paint my cane >>>> all >>>> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, >>> could someone >>>> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of >>> an accident if >>>> my cane were not white? >>>> >>>> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >>>> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >>>> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine >>> thide. *grin* >>>> >>>> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look >>> for the smooth >>>> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Joe Orozco >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >>> their sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv >>> erse08%40gma >>>> il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin >>> gjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >>> co%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>> virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>> virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 4980 (20100328) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From AZNOR99 at aol.com Sun Mar 28 23:57:31 2010 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:57:31 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane Message-ID: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> >From my perspective (and that of NFB training centers), I use a cane for my own purposes, meaning I use it to learn about my environment, navigate curbs and stairs, avoid obstacles, and generally move through the world independently. This aspect has nothing to do with how others recognize the cane, or else I'd be using an ID cane instead of a long white cane. However, we are lawyers afterall, and we therefore examine the laws quite literally. Thus Joe's question is a good one. Given that many of us use the long white cane to navigate through our environment, using it as a tool to learn what's in our paths, wouldn't such a tool be effective no matter what color it was? I'd say it would, and Federationists such as Stacy, Mazen, and Fatosh who runs the Nebraska Adjustment to Blindness Center would agree. However, what are the legal implications of carrying a "long purple cane" under state "white cane laws"? That's a terrific legal question. I think perhaps you misunderstand why the NFB takes the position it does on audible traffic signals and differently sized currency. Our position on hybrid vehicles should provide proof that we are not as rigid as you suggest. In fact, we believe that certain situations may indeed necessitate changes; for example, we lose our ability to travel safely and independently if we can no longer gauge traffic through sound, as hybrid vehicles eliminate that sound. We can however use the sound of moving traffic and other nonvisual techniques to cross streets (putting aside the issue of hybrids) without audible traffic signals. In fact, many of us feel they alter the environment to the point that they are more hindrance than help. Additionally, we've been folding money and using other nonvisual techniques for literally centuries, and it's worked just fine. Our point is that we would oppose changes to the environment in which we live and do not wish others to bear the burden of making changes for us whenever possible. If a system we use works, then why demand that limited government resources be spent on something that will just make us stand out even more despite the fact that we don't need it? We'd rather those resources be spent on providing blind students with an education equal to their sighted counterparts, to reduce the 70+% unemployment rate for the blind, etc. The long white cane is different. We need it to travel safely and independently, and it doesn't alter the environment. The government isn't spending resources to modify anything for us. Yes, it is true that the sighted world has to recognize what a white cane means. But they also have to yield to pedestrians as a rule anyway, so this is no large burden. I hope that answers some of your questions. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 3/28/2010 5:51:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, stone_troll at sbcglobal.net writes: I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't understand this. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 00:21:12 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 18:21:12 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus><01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> <58B6ABBB531549C7B3245106DC08C975@spike> Message-ID: <03B1A3CF0CC649A5A741A2B918951351@azizaLatD430> Other than that it would be fun, and might help some kids and other newly blinded people identify with their canes. I mean, if a child who is six can put stickers of racing cars on his cane, he may be open to carrying it around, that is more open to just a plain white one. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Where safety and recognition is concerned I fail to understand the > rationale of deviating from the accepted standards. This is the equivalent > of a local government deciding to develop its own colors of a system for > traffic signal lights. There is nno point in making a fashion statement > using a recognized symbol. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark BurningHawk" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 2:51 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks >> here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that >> matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB >> rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming >> that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," >> whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a >> bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of >> blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can >> alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm >> blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a >> black cane and give no indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a >> purely voluntary basis. I just don't understand this. >> >> Mark BurningHawk >> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >> Namaste! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 00:33:56 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 20:33:56 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Not Just Your Average Cane In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <04AC544B5C23482BA021D7E070CDA5A4@Rufus> Hi Mark, Having started the thread, I feel compelled to respond to your thoughtful post. It goes without say that people's opinions here do not reflect any official NFB positions, and I honestly doubt the NFB would genuinely care if all its members suddenly decided to sport a wide range of colorfully decorated canes. I think Dr. Maurer would probably find the concept amusing, and doesn't Whozit sport a black cane in our logo? That fellow was far ahead of the curve. For my own part, I'm headed to Michael's sometime soon to embark upon a project to transform my own cane into the walking wonder I know it can be. I think that in doing so I would do well to use a measure of practical sense. Security checkpoints at airports and federal buildings would probably not look kindly on a cane that is different from what is popularly accepted. We can't expect the world to automatically get that blind people have their own sense of pizzazz, and by the same token, we can't expect people to pick up on the fact we're blind at night if using something as obscure as a black cane, even though I agree with the previous subscriber that motorists should respect pedestrians with or without this new breed of eye candy. I'm glad people pointed out the jurisdictions that specifically call for the cane to be white. In asking my question, sarcasm notwithstanding, I was not really setting out to violate laws that are meant to preserve my safety, but I do not want these laws to tuck me away into a label that can be every bit as condescending as terms like "handicapped." If senior citizens can sport all manner of creatively designed walking canes, by golly, I want my own mode of transportation to broadcast my own sense of humor. It's not as if I can smack a bumper sticker on my German shepherd's butt and call it good, although, can you imagine the wide range of clever slogans one could produce with that kind of strategic angle? All of this having been said, I spent nearly a year working on behalf of victims of human trafficking. I learned all about the negative connotations associated with words like "pimping," and for using that term to catch your attention, I am truly sorry. In summation, I think the responses on both lists to which the question went out has been mostly positive. It's no scientific survey, but I think it is at least slightly indicative of the membership's willingness to explore the idea or at least humor my nonsense. People who have given more straight-laced responses are no doubt secretly glad they're not the only ones who thought of this, because original this idea is most certainly not. Let's leave out the references to accessible currency and other controversial topics out of it this time around. We debate those serious issues all the time and should enjoy the all too infrequent light banter. Best, Joe Orozco and the Soon to Be Improved Sir Tap-A-Lot What, as if you haven't ever thought of giving your cane a name??? "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:51 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't understand this. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 01:00:19 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 18:00:19 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> Message-ID: <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the identifying mark by which blind people are known and warn their surroundings that they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is one reason why I want to use a cane that's other than white with a red tip. It is very true that, even with my guide dog, when I wear sunglasses, I am often mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog user. It's like that old left-handed compliment, "No one would know you're blind, you do that so well." That infuriates me when it's said to me. It seems that some here are trying to avoid just this situation--being mistaken for a sighted person--when I should think that was the ultimate goal of any blind person--to blend in and not stand out. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 01:07:19 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 18:07:19 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Not Just Your Average Cane In-Reply-To: <04AC544B5C23482BA021D7E070CDA5A4@Rufus> References: <04AC544B5C23482BA021D7E070CDA5A4@Rufus> Message-ID: <1414E6AB-6B83-46F0-BE4A-7626BC87A5A4@sbcglobal.net> I brought up audible cross walks and currency changes not to debate them, but to use them as comparisons. I don't agree with the NFB position on those issues either, but that's another topic. :) I guess what it comes down to is this: Do you use the cane as a tool for better mobility, or do you use a cane to procure a handicap for yourself? The "you" here being generalized. If you use a cane to tell everyone you're blind and need a handicap, then by all means it should be white and long and visible, etc. If not, use what works for you. I realize that in a professional and pressure-laden field like law, conformity is often quite useful, and I myself, being a creative artist, writer/musician type, tend toward the individualistic and character-expressive end of the spectrum. I, also having a severe to profound hearing loss, might use a white cane precisely because of my own arguments--that if I am using a cane, with my hearing loss, I want to be recognized and noted for my own protection--because I know how horribly I mobilize with a cane--my dog and I do GREAT, and I've often considered customizing his harness a bit--with a mini-pack, for example, for carrying small things, or whatever. The harness is also eminently practical as a tool, as well. Still, one of my dogs, when I lived in a rougher section of Boston, had a spiked leather collar on him as well as his Guiding Eyes choke collar; I was into studs and leather myself at the time. That was my only point. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 01:09:29 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 18:09:29 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <58B6ABBB531549C7B3245106DC08C975@spike> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus><01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> <58B6ABBB531549C7B3245106DC08C975@spike> Message-ID: <946E4055-0B2F-4954-AF02-8C6E30EBBB94@sbcglobal.net> \You desire to be recognized as blind by the use of your cane; people act accordingly toward you having recognized you. You are asking for a handicap. That's fine, but recognizing it as such may (or may not) be useful to you. Personally, having lived in some of the rougher sections of the country, I'd rather have a cane that's also a good weapon--blade hidden inside, sturdier construction, better grip, balance, etc.--than a cane that was flimsy but white. It also makes you an easier target. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 01:17:17 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 20:17:17 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <58B6ABBB531549C7B3245106DC08C975@spike> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus><01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> <58B6ABBB531549C7B3245106DC08C975@spike> Message-ID: <001101cacedd$934928a0$b9db79e0$@com> It seems that this conversation started as a very light topic, but again, people begin to whine. If a person chooses to make a fashion statement with a cane, then that's their right to...no rationality is needed for anyone but that particular person. I also do agree that some organizations choose to speak for all blind people when I was never part of any survey of the blind. Everyone in here, or most, are in the legal field and understand the legalities of the white cane. If we only stayed with what is recognized in the moment....boy, what kind of horrible country we would be. Just my little two cents. BTW....I want to put a bow tie and a dress shoe on my cane. I think it's so stylish! In Fun and Without Malice, Will -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 6:21 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane Where safety and recognition is concerned I fail to understand the rationale of deviating from the accepted standards. This is the equivalent of a local government deciding to develop its own colors of a system for traffic signal lights. There is nno point in making a fashion statement using a recognized symbol. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks > here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that > matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB > rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming > that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," > whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a bunch > of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of > blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can > alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm > blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a > black cane and give no indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a > purely voluntary basis. I just don't understand this. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Mon Mar 29 04:01:42 2010 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:01:42 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> Message-ID: <777694D4AC2B493A98792E4541A98D35@valtd> Hello Ronza: You wrote in part: "we've been folding money and using other nonvisual techniques for literally centuries, and it's worked just fine." Then I wonder why the idea of using a money identifier is not frowned upon by the NFB? I'd certainly like to be able to identify the paper dollar bill without having to fold it. This is so true in a commercial environment where I am running a retail store and where customers DO NOT have the time or patience to wait for me to fold the bill a certain way as it is handed to me. I hope the Treasury Department implements the court's orders pretty quick; otherwise, when my dollar bill identifier packs up, I will be in real trouble at my retail store. Making it easy to identify the paper dollar bill saves me time; I will NO LONGER have to send my equipment in for recalibration when the fine prints on the paper bill are changed. As for a cane with different colors, I've often tinkered with that prospect. As my Holy Book tells me, "Law is made for man and not the other way around" sorry my paraphrase may be a bit out of whack, but you get the idea! I am of the opinion that the law that COMPELS ME to carry a white cane needs close scrutiny and perhaps there are aspects of it pleading for a joyous change! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 05:51:47 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:51:47 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <6273CD546E674AA5A65FD6FE1D7DE911@spike> References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com><31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn> <400FDC6C-10A9-44A0-8A14-F572F2519E37@zufelt.ca> <6273CD546E674AA5A65FD6FE1D7DE911@spike> Message-ID: Ummm, hello? There's a *LOT* more to "impersonating a blind person," than carrying a white cane. I defy anyone who is sighted to pull that off well enough to fool a blind person. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 08:45:33 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 01:45:33 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com><31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn><400FDC6C-10A9-44A0-8A14-F572F2519E37@zufelt.ca><6273CD546E674AA5A65FD6FE1D7DE911@spike> Message-ID: <188D6871A4EF4375A82300F3AE12084A@spike> in cases where it is done its usually done to fool sighted people as a means to get money or services or playing on the sympathies of the unaware public. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Ummm, hello? There's a *LOT* more to "impersonating a blind person," than > carrying a white cane. I defy anyone who is sighted to pull that off > well enough to fool a blind person. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 29 09:59:38 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 05:59:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Suppose you are running into people without your cane--they may think you are being smart, retarded or drunk. People, guys in general, do not liked to be bumped. That could cause you to be grabbed or punched. At best, you certainly will get some stern looks. Better to have people know you have a visual impairment. Steve-- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, > recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to > identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being > unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was > put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they > may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as > blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not > being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I > am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems > to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. > For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane > becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the identifying > mark by which blind people are known and warn their surroundings that > they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is one reason why I want > to use a cane that's other than white with a red tip. It is very true > that, even with my guide dog, when I wear sunglasses, I am often > mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog user. It's like that old > left-handed compliment, "No one would know you're blind, you do that > so well." That infuriates me when it's said to me. It seems that > some here are trying to avoid just this situation--being mistaken for > a sighted person--when I should think that was the ultimate goal of > any blind person--to blend in and not stand out. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2776 - Release Date: 03/28/10 18:32:00 From goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 13:05:08 2010 From: goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net (Sarah Clark) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 06:05:08 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com><31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn><400FDC6C-10A9-44A0-8A14-F572F2519E37@zufelt.ca><6273CD546E674AA5A65FD6FE1D7DE911@spike> Message-ID: <10b701cacf40$7538e540$6701a8c0@computer2> Actually it would be pretty easy to fool a blind person -- they can't see what the person is doing and how well or poorly the person is pulling it off. The more difficult thing is to fool a sighted person that is very accustomed to how a blind person operates, i.e. a sighted spouse of a blind person. I have heard of at least a couple of instances of people doing this. Personally I don't see the benefit, but clearly they are getting something out of it, in a defective sort of way. Sarah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Ummm, hello? There's a *LOT* more to "impersonating a blind person," than > carrying a white cane. I defy anyone who is sighted to pull that off > well enough to fool a blind person. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/goldflash9%40sbcglobal.net From r.g.munro at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 13:34:32 2010 From: r.g.munro at gmail.com (Robert Munro) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:34:32 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Not Just Your Average Cane In-Reply-To: <04AC544B5C23482BA021D7E070CDA5A4@Rufus> References: <04AC544B5C23482BA021D7E070CDA5A4@Rufus> Message-ID: <681461F9-E6FD-4865-8E88-F93432A6153F@gmail.com> The best name for a cane I ever heard came from a guy named Paul in Colorado. He called his cane Edith, an acronym for Extended Device for Identification by Touch of Hazards. On Mar 28, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Hi Mark, > > Having started the thread, I feel compelled to respond to your thoughtful > post. It goes without say that people's opinions here do not reflect any > official NFB positions, and I honestly doubt the NFB would genuinely care if > all its members suddenly decided to sport a wide range of colorfully > decorated canes. I think Dr. Maurer would probably find the concept > amusing, and doesn't Whozit sport a black cane in our logo? That fellow was > far ahead of the curve. > > For my own part, I'm headed to Michael's sometime soon to embark upon a > project to transform my own cane into the walking wonder I know it can be. > I think that in doing so I would do well to use a measure of practical > sense. Security checkpoints at airports and federal buildings would > probably not look kindly on a cane that is different from what is popularly > accepted. We can't expect the world to automatically get that blind people > have their own sense of pizzazz, and by the same token, we can't expect > people to pick up on the fact we're blind at night if using something as > obscure as a black cane, even though I agree with the previous subscriber > that motorists should respect pedestrians with or without this new breed of > eye candy. > > I'm glad people pointed out the jurisdictions that specifically call for the > cane to be white. In asking my question, sarcasm notwithstanding, I was not > really setting out to violate laws that are meant to preserve my safety, but > I do not want these laws to tuck me away into a label that can be every bit > as condescending as terms like "handicapped." If senior citizens can sport > all manner of creatively designed walking canes, by golly, I want my own > mode of transportation to broadcast my own sense of humor. It's not as if I > can smack a bumper sticker on my German shepherd's butt and call it good, > although, can you imagine the wide range of clever slogans one could produce > with that kind of strategic angle? > > All of this having been said, I spent nearly a year working on behalf of > victims of human trafficking. I learned all about the negative connotations > associated with words like "pimping," and for using that term to catch your > attention, I am truly sorry. > > In summation, I think the responses on both lists to which the question went > out has been mostly positive. It's no scientific survey, but I think it is > at least slightly indicative of the membership's willingness to explore the > idea or at least humor my nonsense. People who have given more > straight-laced responses are no doubt secretly glad they're not the only > ones who thought of this, because original this idea is most certainly not. > Let's leave out the references to accessible currency and other > controversial topics out of it this time around. We debate those serious > issues all the time and should enjoy the all too infrequent light banter. > > Best, > > Joe Orozco and the Soon to Be Improved Sir Tap-A-Lot > > What, as if you haven't ever thought of giving your cane a name??? > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:51 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks > here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for > that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the > NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, > claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind > "want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I > hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a > symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so > that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of > the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB > might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of > blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't > understand this. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gmail.com From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Mon Mar 29 15:38:12 2010 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:38:12 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Not Just Your Average Cane In-Reply-To: <681461F9-E6FD-4865-8E88-F93432A6153F@gmail.com> References: <04AC544B5C23482BA021D7E070CDA5A4@Rufus> <681461F9-E6FD-4865-8E88-F93432A6153F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100329153812.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> That's a bit of a stretch! Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Munro To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Date: Monday, Mar 29, 2010 9:32:10 Subject: Re: [bllaw] Not Just Your Average Cane > > > The best name for a cane I ever heard came from a guy named Paul in Colorado. He called his cane Edith, an acronym for Extended Device for Identification by Touch of Hazards. > On Mar 28, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > > > Hi Mark, > > > > Having started the thread, I feel compelled to respond to your thoughtful > > post. It goes without say that people's opinions here do not reflect any > > official NFB positions, and I honestly doubt the NFB would genuinely care if > > all its members suddenly decided to sport a wide range of colorfully > > decorated canes. I think Dr. Maurer would probably find the concept > > amusing, and doesn't Whozit sport a black cane in our logo? That fellow was > > far ahead of the curve. > > > > For my own part, I'm headed to Michael's sometime soon to embark upon a > > project to transform my own cane into the walking wonder I know it can be. > > I think that in doing so I would do well to use a measure of practical > > sense. Security checkpoints at airports and federal buildings would > > probably not look kindly on a cane that is different from what is popularly > > accepted. We can't expect the world to automatically get that blind people > > have their own sense of pizzazz, and by the same token, we can't expect > > people to pick up on the fact we're blind at night if using something as > > obscure as a black cane, even though I agree with the previous subscriber > > that motorists should respect pedestrians with or without this new breed of > > eye candy. > > > > I'm glad people pointed out the jurisdictions that specifically call for the > > cane to be white. In asking my question, sarcasm notwithstanding, I was not > > really setting out to violate laws that are meant to preserve my safety, but > > I do not want these laws to tuck me away into a label that can be every bit > > as condescending as terms like "handicapped." If senior citizens can sport > > all manner of creatively designed walking canes, by golly, I want my own > > mode of transportation to broadcast my own sense of humor. It's not as if I > > can smack a bumper sticker on my German shepherd's butt and call it good, > > although, can you imagine the wide range of clever slogans one could produce > > with that kind of strategic angle? > > > > All of this having been said, I spent nearly a year working on behalf of > > victims of human trafficking. I learned all about the negative connotations > > associated with words like "pimping," and for using that term to catch your > > attention, I am truly sorry. > > > > In summation, I think the responses on both lists to which the question went > > out has been mostly positive. It's no scientific survey, but I think it is > > at least slightly indicative of the membership's willingness to explore the > > idea or at least humor my nonsense. People who have given more > > straight-laced responses are no doubt secretly glad they're not the only > > ones who thought of this, because original this idea is most certainly not. > > Let's leave out the references to accessible currency and other > > controversial topics out of it this time around. We debate those serious > > issues all the time and should enjoy the all too infrequent light banter. > > > > Best, > > > > Joe Orozco and the Soon to Be Improved Sir Tap-A-Lot > > > > What, as if you haven't ever thought of giving your cane a name??? > > > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at alldd0-comSam Ewing > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk > > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:51 PM > > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [bllaw] Pimp My Cane > > > > I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks > > here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for > > that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the > > NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, > > claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind > > "want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I > > hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a > > symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so > > that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of > > the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB > > might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of > > blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't > > understand this. > > > > Mark BurningHawk > > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > > Namaste! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bllaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info for bllaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > > co%40gmail.com > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > > virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > > database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bllaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 14:54:59 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 07:54:59 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> Even better to be skilled enough that you don't need people to know you need their handicap to get by. I don't need people to watch out for me because I"m blind; the thought is repugnant. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 29 16:54:50 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:54:50 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> You don't want others to be injured by your mistakes, do you? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Even better to be skilled enough that you don't need people to know > you need their handicap to get by. I don't need people to watch out > for me because I"m blind; the thought is repugnant. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/29/10 06:32:00 From bnaccari at cox.net Mon Mar 29 19:08:30 2010 From: bnaccari at cox.net (Bruce E. Naccari) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:08:30 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Adorn the unused strap not your cane Message-ID: <20100329150830.OD908.960588.imail@eastrmwml41> As former Legal Counsel to New Orleans Human Relations Commission, I used to teach classes on the White Cane Safety laws and anti-discrimination laws affecting public accommodations to police recruits and police officers studying to be examined for possible promotions. At least here in the Isle d’Orleans, it is hard enough as it is to get peace officers to understand and enforce and the public to obey these laws. The long white cane clearly identifies those who are entitled to the intended safety and social participation benefits of these laws. In my opinion any alterations or adornments that change the white cane itself will only lead to confusion and make compliance and comprehension and enforcement even less likely in the long run. But: may I suggest, if you don’t’ use the strap, why not use it too individuate or adorn your cane? Depending on your taste, you might append to the cane strap but not the cane itself any number of sorts of things : bear bells, religious pendants, Native American medicine bags or feathers, a reticule like HRH Elizabeth II’s, ludicrous rearview mirror hanging baubles, bows, medallions—and this will leave your cane itself an unequivocal and legally-significant and reflective white. If I were you though I would not append anything from the strap that makes annoying clanking sounds as it hits the cane during walking movement or in places like theatres restaurants, places of worship, etc. And anything too heavy on the strap will destroy the usual balance of your cane and make it give less intelligible information to you. I have used cane straps in this way during New Orleans Carnival celebrations but not at other times; and whatever bells and decorations I hung from the strap left my long white cane the clearly white it should be. From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 19:46:09 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:46:09 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com><31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn><400FDC6C-10A9-44A0-8A14-F572F2519E37@zufelt.ca><6273CD546E674AA5A65FD6FE1D7DE911@spike> <10b701cacf40$7538e540$6701a8c0@computer2> Message-ID: <7BDA22C8300645E08105D3083D039AC0@azizaLatD430> Not necessarily. Sighted people do things that just make you know their sighted, like point, wave, exclaim over the color of something, without realizing it. It would take a lot of discipline for a sighted person who doesn't know much about blindness to pull it off... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Clark" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 7:05 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Actually it would be pretty easy to fool a blind person -- they can't see > what the person is doing and how well or poorly the person is pulling it > off. The more difficult thing is to fool a sighted person that is very > accustomed to how a blind person operates, i.e. a sighted spouse of a > blind person. I have heard of at least a couple of instances of people > doing this. > Personally I don't see the benefit, but clearly they are getting something > out of it, in a defective sort of way. > > Sarah > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark BurningHawk" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:51 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> Ummm, hello? There's a *LOT* more to "impersonating a blind person," >> than carrying a white cane. I defy anyone who is sighted to pull that >> off well enough to fool a blind person. >> >> Mark BurningHawk >> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >> Namaste! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/goldflash9%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 19:48:55 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:48:55 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net><9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: That's the whole purpose of carrying an identifiable cane. Its basically to alert the surrounding community of a blind person's presence. This is no different than a truck beeping when it is backing up. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > You don't want others to be injured by your mistakes, do you? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark BurningHawk" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 10:54 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> Even better to be skilled enough that you don't need people to know >> you need their handicap to get by. I don't need people to watch out >> for me because I"m blind; the thought is repugnant. >> >> Mark BurningHawk >> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >> Namaste! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/29/10 > 06:32:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 19:50:32 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:50:32 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <413FBF60AAAD46188A584234E9C73595@azizaLatD430> In my oppinion, the usefullness of my cane is this, and only this. It helps me travel safely and independently. I do not care if people know I'm blind or not. In fact, although I am perfectly comfortable with my blindness, and proud of it too, I'd rather people not identify me as blind on sight. I am not the Blind girl, I am a girl who happens to be blind. If my blindness is what people see first, the misconceptions are likely to take root deeper than they would if the people saw my personality and abilities before they saw the extent of my lack of vission. Aziza ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 3:59 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Suppose you are running into people without your cane--they may think you > are being smart, retarded or drunk. People, guys in general, do not liked > to be bumped. That could cause you to be grabbed or punched. At best, > you certainly will get some stern looks. Better to have people know you > have a visual impairment. > Steve-- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark BurningHawk" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:00 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, >> recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to >> identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being >> unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was >> put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they >> may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as >> blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not >> being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I >> am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems >> to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. >> For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane >> becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the identifying >> mark by which blind people are known and warn their surroundings that >> they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is one reason why I want >> to use a cane that's other than white with a red tip. It is very true >> that, even with my guide dog, when I wear sunglasses, I am often >> mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog user. It's like that old >> left-handed compliment, "No one would know you're blind, you do that >> so well." That infuriates me when it's said to me. It seems that >> some here are trying to avoid just this situation--being mistaken for >> a sighted person--when I should think that was the ultimate goal of >> any blind person--to blend in and not stand out. >> >> Mark BurningHawk >> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >> Namaste! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2776 - Release Date: 03/28/10 > 18:32:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 29 19:51:16 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:51:16 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Adorn the unused strap not your cane In-Reply-To: <20100329150830.OD908.960588.imail@eastrmwml41> References: <20100329150830.OD908.960588.imail@eastrmwml41> Message-ID: Great e-mail Bruce! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce E. Naccari" To: Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 3:08 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Adorn the unused strap not your cane > As former Legal Counsel to New Orleans Human Relations Commission, I used > to teach classes on the White Cane Safety laws and anti-discrimination > laws affecting public accommodations to police recruits and police > officers studying to be examined for possible promotions. At least here > in the Isle d’Orleans, it is hard enough as it is to get peace officers > to understand and enforce and the public to obey these laws. The long > white cane clearly identifies those who are entitled to the intended > safety and social participation benefits of these laws. In my opinion any > alterations or adornments that change the white cane itself will only > lead to confusion and make compliance and comprehension and enforcement > even less likely in the long run. But: may I suggest, if you don’t’ use > the strap, why not use it too individuate or adorn your cane? Depending > on your taste, you might append to the cane strap but not the cane > itself any number of sorts of things : bear bells, religious pendants, > Native American medicine bags or feathers, a reticule like HRH Elizabeth > II’s, ludicrous rearview mirror hanging baubles, bows, medallions—and > this will leave your cane itself an unequivocal and legally-significant > and reflective white. If I were you though I would not append anything > from the strap that makes annoying clanking sounds as it hits the cane > during walking movement or in places like theatres restaurants, places > of worship, etc. And anything too heavy on the strap will destroy the > usual balance of your cane and make it give less intelligible information > to you. I have used cane straps in this way during New Orleans Carnival > celebrations but not at other times; and whatever bells and decorations I > hung from the strap left my long white cane the clearly white it should > be. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/29/10 06:32:00 From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 20:05:27 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:05:27 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net><9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net><861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: Yes it is. The truck doesn't beep all the time, and a backing up truck unnoticed can be hazardous. A blind person walking down the block, entering a building or anything else is not hazardous, unless someone trips over them, in which case, the cane user either needs more training, or the sighted person need to watch where he's going. Aziza ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > That's the whole purpose of carrying an identifiable cane. Its basically > to alert the surrounding community of a blind person's presence. This is > no different than a truck beeping when it is backing up. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 9:54 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> You don't want others to be injured by your mistakes, do you? >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark BurningHawk" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 10:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> Even better to be skilled enough that you don't need people to know >>> you need their handicap to get by. I don't need people to watch out >>> for me because I"m blind; the thought is repugnant. >>> >>> Mark BurningHawk >>> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >>> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >>> Namaste! >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/29/10 >> 06:32:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 20:33:45 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:33:45 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: This implies that I will make such mistakes; in my 40 years of dog and cane use, admittedly largely dog use, I have never "injured," someone. I don't like the insinuation that a blind person, myself or anyone else, is a liability; if they are, they need to work on skills through whatever channels they prefer. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 21:12:17 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:12:17 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net><9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net><861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: <4B03979023384E3ABD41041E2D7D2F5F@spike> Perhaps its my age and experience but I have nothing to prove by not having the cane notify and protect the public from any unforeseen consequences. Perhaps we need to get on with real life issues instead of living in a make believe world. I for one believe that I have a responsibility to the public just as a driver of a vehicle would have the same responsibility to a pedestrian. I also have more important things to do in life than bucking the system for the sake of doing so and making fashion statements. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aziza Cano" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Yes it is. The truck doesn't beep all the time, and a backing up truck > unnoticed can be hazardous. A blind person walking down the block, > entering a building or anything else is not hazardous, unless someone > trips over them, in which case, the cane user either needs more training, > or the sighted person need to watch where he's going. > Aziza > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 1:48 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> That's the whole purpose of carrying an identifiable cane. Its basically >> to alert the surrounding community of a blind person's presence. This is >> no different than a truck beeping when it is backing up. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 9:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> You don't want others to be injured by your mistakes, do you? >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mark BurningHawk" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 10:54 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>> >>> >>>> Even better to be skilled enough that you don't need people to know >>>> you need their handicap to get by. I don't need people to watch out >>>> for me because I"m blind; the thought is repugnant. >>>> >>>> Mark BurningHawk >>>> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >>>> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >>>> Namaste! >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/29/10 >>> 06:32:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 21:23:46 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:23:46 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net><9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net><861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: Even with perfect training and mobility skills there is always the potential for an accident to happen. I think its a question of common sense here and the need to take precautions rather than proving a point that could result in a disruption of a person's life due to an injury. I guess being born blind and accomplishing what I'vwe needed to I don't feel the need to make this an issue in my life or those of others. Having a background in psychology it is sometimes that the ones who protest the loudest about something sometimes have the greatest insecurities. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > This implies that I will make such mistakes; in my 40 years of dog and > cane use, admittedly largely dog use, I have never "injured," someone. I > don't like the insinuation that a blind person, myself or anyone else, is > a liability; if they are, they need to work on skills through whatever > channels they prefer. > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 21:38:09 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:38:09 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net><9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: Funny; I thought the cane was a mobility tool, not an advertisement of blindness. Why not just wear a sandwich sign saying, "BLind; need your tacit cooperation in preserving the illusion of my independence while shielding me from the real world with your handicap," around your neck. then people can lead you around by the hand and spoon-feed you reality as long as you wear the sign. The "you," here is generalized, I am not insulting just one person with this rant, but all people who don't use the cane as it was meant, but instead to promote the helplessness of blind people. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 29 21:55:22 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 17:55:22 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: You bump into someone and they don't know you are blind, you might get clocked. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > This implies that I will make such mistakes; in my 40 years of dog and > cane use, admittedly largely dog use, I have never "injured," > someone. I don't like the insinuation that a blind person, myself or > anyone else, is a liability; if they are, they need to work on skills > through whatever channels they prefer. > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2778 - Release Date: 03/29/10 18:32:00 From joramsey at cox.net Mon Mar 29 22:07:40 2010 From: joramsey at cox.net (John Ramsey) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 18:07:40 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <413FBF60AAAD46188A584234E9C73595@azizaLatD430> Message-ID: <690C088BC25C4E719956E192FBC369FE@noneeb869fea9a> Can we at least change the title of the thread? I hate to bring on the groans that RJ received but this thing has gone beyond ridiculous. John A. Ramsey Jr., P.A. P.O. Box 6063 Gainesville, FL 32627 Phone: (352) 505-6642 Fax: (352) 240-6453 This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) 505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our control. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aziza Cano Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 3:51 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In my oppinion, the usefullness of my cane is this, and only this. It helps me travel safely and independently. I do not care if people know I'm blind or not. In fact, although I am perfectly comfortable with my blindness, and proud of it too, I'd rather people not identify me as blind on sight. I am not the Blind girl, I am a girl who happens to be blind. If my blindness is what people see first, the misconceptions are likely to take root deeper than they would if the people saw my personality and abilities before they saw the extent of my lack of vission. Aziza ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 3:59 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Suppose you are running into people without your cane--they may think > you > are being smart, retarded or drunk. People, guys in general, do not liked > to be bumped. That could cause you to be grabbed or punched. At best, > you certainly will get some stern looks. Better to have people know you > have a visual impairment. > Steve-- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark BurningHawk" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:00 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, >> recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to >> identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being >> unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was >> put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they >> may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as >> blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not >> being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I >> am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems >> to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. >> For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane >> becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the >> identifying mark by which blind people are known and warn their >> surroundings that they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is >> one reason why I want to use a cane that's other than white with a >> red tip. It is very true that, even with my guide dog, when I wear >> sunglasses, I am often mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog >> user. It's like that old left-handed compliment, "No one would know >> you're blind, you do that so well." That infuriates me when it's >> said to me. It seems that some here are trying to avoid just this >> situation--being mistaken for a sighted person--when I should think >> that was the ultimate goal of any blind person--to blend in and not >> stand out. >> >> Mark BurningHawk >> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >> Namaste! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2776 - Release Date: > 03/28/10 > 18:32:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor% 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Mon Mar 29 22:43:01 2010 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 18:43:01 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus><01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> Message-ID: <64716459B89847DD9053C871AE5141EF@Scorpio13> Hi Mark, With due respect, I think you are misunderstanding the NFB's philosophy and some of our positions. The NFB didn't oppose audible signals, or the lawsuit seeking identifiable money, because we don't believe that blind people need accommodations. What we believe is that blind people ought to have the tools and receive the accommodations that are necessary, not just every conceivable accommodation. Now, you may well disagree with us on what accommodations are necessary, and that is all well and good. Even our own members don't always agree on everything, but we take a vote on the issues we disagree on and once a position has been voted on we stick with it until there is a vote to change it. The white cane is a tool that many blind people have found useful, primarily because it helps us get around. A guide dog is useful to other blind people for the same reason. In the NFB we generally believe that a blind person should be able to have access to these tools and make choices about the ones they will use. Symbolically, the white cane is important because it means we believe it is respectable to be blind, but that's not the only or even the primary reason to carry one. If one has some vision, a white cane may be useful and will certainly avoid misunderstandings arising from not being able to see very well. That said, of course being identified as blind has its down sides. A lot of us have decided that the benefits of carrying a cane outweigh those down sides. In a speech on the nature of independence, our long-time president Kenneth Jernigan pointed out that the white cane and Braille are simply tools that can make a person independent and that many blind people find useful. But he warned us against defining whether a person was independent based on whether or not they chose to use any given tool. Sometimes all of us forget this warning, but I still think it is generally what we believe. We do push for things like Braille literacy and cane training because those who are blind or have low vision should know what all of their options are. It's fine to make a choice, but we believe it should be an informed choice, and not one that is merely made because one doesn't want to seem blind because of society's attitude about blindness. Beyond that, the choice is up to the individual blind person. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:51 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't understand this. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4983 (20100329) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4983 (20100329) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Mon Mar 29 22:47:17 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:47:17 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <690C088BC25C4E719956E192FBC369FE@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: <7B817CDCDEEA47E693DB9D6730E84DBC@labarre> I respectfully suggest that we have "caned" this conversation to death. At times we have strayed far afield of the purpose of this list. Thanks to all who have registered their thoughts. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ramsey" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Can we at least change the title of the thread? I hate to bring on the > groans that RJ received but this thing has gone beyond ridiculous. > > John A. Ramsey Jr., P.A. > > P.O. Box 6063 > > Gainesville, FL 32627 > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > Fax: (352) 240-6453 > > This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or > legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or > entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication > in > error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed > materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be > aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this > communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or > civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, > John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are > uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to > communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) > 505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that > email > messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our > control. Thank you. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Aziza Cano > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 3:51 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > > In my oppinion, the usefullness of my cane is this, and only this. It > helps > me travel safely and independently. I do not care if people know I'm blind > or not. In fact, although I am perfectly comfortable with my blindness, > and > proud of it too, I'd rather people not identify me as blind on sight. I am > not the Blind girl, I am a girl who happens to be blind. If my blindness > is > what people see first, the misconceptions are likely to take root deeper > than they would if the people saw my personality and abilities before they > saw the extent of my lack of vission. > Aziza > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 3:59 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> Suppose you are running into people without your cane--they may think >> you >> are being smart, retarded or drunk. People, guys in general, do not >> liked > >> to be bumped. That could cause you to be grabbed or punched. At best, >> you certainly will get some stern looks. Better to have people know you >> have a visual impairment. >> Steve-- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark BurningHawk" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, >>> recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to >>> identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being >>> unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was >>> put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they >>> may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as >>> blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not >>> being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I >>> am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems >>> to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. >>> For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane >>> becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the >>> identifying mark by which blind people are known and warn their >>> surroundings that they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is >>> one reason why I want to use a cane that's other than white with a >>> red tip. It is very true that, even with my guide dog, when I wear >>> sunglasses, I am often mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog >>> user. It's like that old left-handed compliment, "No one would know >>> you're blind, you do that so well." That infuriates me when it's >>> said to me. It seems that some here are trying to avoid just this >>> situation--being mistaken for a sighted person--when I should think >>> that was the ultimate goal of any blind person--to blend in and not >>> stand out. >>> >>> Mark BurningHawk >>> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >>> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >>> Namaste! >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2776 - Release Date: >> 03/28/10 >> 18:32:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor% > 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 29 22:48:34 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 18:48:34 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: I think you are getting carried away with this point. If you are carrying a cane for navigation and mobility, don't you think that individuals will put it together that you are blind. In tern, the individual may be a little more careful around a blind traveler , especially if the person is driving a car. And, if you are walking in a crowd and accidently bump someone, they will see the cane and know you meant no harm. That may save you from getting punched. Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Funny; I thought the cane was a mobility tool, not an advertisement of > blindness. Why not just wear a sandwich sign saying, "BLind; need > your tacit cooperation in preserving the illusion of my independence > while shielding me from the real world with your handicap," around > your neck. then people can lead you around by the hand and spoon-feed > you reality as long as you wear the sign. The "you," here is > generalized, I am not insulting just one person with this rant, but > all people who don't use the cane as it was meant, but instead to > promote the helplessness of blind people. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2778 - Release Date: 03/29/10 18:32:00 From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 22:48:32 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:48:32 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net><9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net><861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: <1686D973-88E1-4ACB-85E6-C27F5E5CE2C6@sbcglobal.net> Oh cut that out. I was born blind, too, and I don't have insecurities about injuring someone; I've never been responsible for anyone else's injury that I didn't mean to, so stop making it personal when I'm trying to keep it general. Blindness is *NOT* a liability any more than clumsiness or large feet. Having bright red hair can e a distraction which can cause injury to someone who sees it. I protest loudly the idea that blind people, especially high-end, intelligent, lawyer-type blind people accept the fact that they may injure someone more readily than a sighted person with two left feet might. When I see professionals who are blind accepting this shame instead of actively working to correct it, I am sad because this attitude will trickle down to disrupt my life when I do something unconventional. So knock off that psychology crap, please; I use a guide dog, not a cane anyway. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 29 22:49:15 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 18:49:15 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <4B03979023384E3ABD41041E2D7D2F5F@spike> References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> <4B03979023384E3ABD41041E2D7D2F5F@spike> Message-ID: You are right on that one! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Perhaps its my age and experience but I have nothing to prove by not > having > the cane notify and protect the public from any unforeseen consequences. > Perhaps we need to get on with real life issues instead of living in a > make > believe world. I for one believe that I have a responsibility to the > public > just as a driver of a vehicle would have the same responsibility to a > pedestrian. I also have more important things to do in life than bucking > the > system for the sake of doing so and making fashion statements. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aziza Cano" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 1:05 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> Yes it is. The truck doesn't beep all the time, and a backing up truck >> unnoticed can be hazardous. A blind person walking down the block, >> entering a building or anything else is not hazardous, unless someone >> trips over them, in which case, the cane user either needs more training, >> or the sighted person need to watch where he's going. >> Aziza >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 1:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> That's the whole purpose of carrying an identifiable cane. Its basically >>> to alert the surrounding community of a blind person's presence. This >>> is >>> no different than a truck beeping when it is backing up. >>> Chuck >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 9:54 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>> >>> >>>> You don't want others to be injured by your mistakes, do you? >>>> Steve >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Mark BurningHawk" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 10:54 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>>> >>>> >>>>> Even better to be skilled enough that you don't need people to know >>>>> you need their handicap to get by. I don't need people to watch out >>>>> for me because I"m blind; the thought is repugnant. >>>>> >>>>> Mark BurningHawk >>>>> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >>>>> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >>>>> Namaste! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: >>>> 03/29/10 >>>> 06:32:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2778 - Release Date: 03/29/10 18:32:00 From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 22:49:46 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:49:46 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <4B03979023384E3ABD41041E2D7D2F5F@spike> References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net><9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net><861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> <4B03979023384E3ABD41041E2D7D2F5F@spike> Message-ID: Blindness is *NOT* nor should it be viewed as something to "protect," anyone from! I'm afraid that blind people who feel this way will make of all blind people a pariah. Badly constructed sentence, but you know what I mean. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 22:56:19 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:56:19 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <64716459B89847DD9053C871AE5141EF@Scorpio13> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus><01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> <64716459B89847DD9053C871AE5141EF@Scorpio13> Message-ID: <088E1028-C838-4B53-B5A2-CEED2FD2B178@sbcglobal.net> I don't believe I ever said "don't carry a cane because it makes you look blind." I am not arguing the use of the cane as a tool. My use of a black lab instead of a white cane doesn't make me look any less blind, nor am I speaking from a position of shame. What I disagree with strongly is the need for blind people to carry a white cane merely as an identifier. It's analogous, albeit very roughly, to being forced to wear an arm band because of race or religion--just to avoid misunderstandings due to light skin color. If that arm band were a tool, I wouldn't quibble with that; the white cane as a sort of "lepper's mark," to warn the sighted about the blind does no one any good in the long run. If you're a great cane user and it's an effective tool for you, then by all means, knock yourselves out. I would say the same thing to a guide dog user who just "brought the pup along so people know I'm blind and cause he's cute." Please, please try and understand my position and that I'm not on a tirade against the cane. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 22:57:03 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:57:03 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: Believe me; were that to happen, I am quite able to defend myself. If someone hits me just for bumping into them, they're not going to stop and notice a white cane. If you're that afraid of being hit, learn to defend yourself. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 22:58:27 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:58:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: If you're hiding behind your cane to keep form getting hit, as above, I recommend self defense rather than living in fear. as I also said in another post, I'm not trying to avoid "looking blind," or hiding my blindness; hell, I used to wear a blue glass eyeball as an earring, and I'd joke that "It's the only eye I have that does what it's supposed to." Hiding behind a white cane does no one any good. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 22:59:12 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:59:12 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <7B817CDCDEEA47E693DB9D6730E84DBC@labarre> References: <690C088BC25C4E719956E192FBC369FE@noneeb869fea9a> <7B817CDCDEEA47E693DB9D6730E84DBC@labarre> Message-ID: <75DBBDFB-717F-4C33-82B8-7082F16FA89A@sbcglobal.net> Sorry for the posts before I saw this one; no more from me on list; anyone who wants to keep talking, my contacts are below. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 23:10:08 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:10:08 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net><9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net><861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC><4B03979023384E3ABD41041E2D7D2F5F@spike> Message-ID: The reality that we as blind people have to face as does anyone in any minority group is that there are some in that group that make themselves pariahs. its just part of life and human behavior. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Blindness is *NOT* nor should it be viewed as something to "protect," > anyone from! I'm afraid that blind people who feel this way will make of > all blind people a pariah. Badly constructed sentence, but you know what > I mean. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Tue Mar 30 13:03:04 2010 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:03:04 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access Message-ID: <0044432BF5A34A00ABDFBBBBDEAEAA0E@14bd0130080a469> Greetings to All: Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best companies, etc. for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't have $2,000.00 to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard the frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. I observed yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are no longer available. I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by seeking wisdom from the group. Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for listening- Cathryn From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 13:47:15 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:47:15 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access In-Reply-To: <0044432BF5A34A00ABDFBBBBDEAEAA0E@14bd0130080a469> Message-ID: <9C57F100E47E493BB6BD44EEB0E12653@Rufus> I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from Verizon, better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through Verizon, I think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak installed. Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG line that provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both carriers are the best ones here in terms of reception. Joe Orozco "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access Greetings to All: Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best companies, etc. for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't have $2,000.00 to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard the frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. I observed yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are no longer available. I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by seeking wisdom from the group. Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for listening- Cathryn _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4985 (20100330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Tue Mar 30 15:03:52 2010 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access In-Reply-To: <9C57F100E47E493BB6BD44EEB0E12653@Rufus> References: <0044432BF5A34A00ABDFBBBBDEAEAA0E@14bd0130080a469> <9C57F100E47E493BB6BD44EEB0E12653@Rufus> Message-ID: <2852F843F2494C82BDB2382D12F4D541@14bd0130080a469> Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice software to install on a cell? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from Verizon, better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through Verizon, I think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak installed. Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG line that provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both carriers are the best ones here in terms of reception. Joe Orozco "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access Greetings to All: Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best companies, etc. for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't have $2,000.00 to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard the frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. I observed yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are no longer available. I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by seeking wisdom from the group. Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for listening- Cathryn _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4985 (20100330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/30/10 06:32:00 From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Tue Mar 30 17:18:38 2010 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:18:38 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access References: <0044432BF5A34A00ABDFBBBBDEAEAA0E@14bd0130080a469> Message-ID: <1396EC6B323A463B922D4F129B95066D@valtd> Hi Cathryn: MobileSpeak, the competition for cell phone screen reader, will also work on the HTC Ozone if you choose to stay with Verizon. Aside from these, there are several mostly Nokia phones that Talks can run on. Here are a few: N85, N86, 6120 Classic, E65, E66, E61I, N95, N96, ETC. I hear that the new Talks5 soon to be released will even work on Nokia Touch Screen phones. Please note that Nokia phones use GSM technology; if you choose a Nokia phone, you will be stuck with either AT&T or T-Mobile for the most part. It is my understanding that the HTC Ozone supports both GSM and CDMA platforms; with this phone, you can still keep Verizon if that is your preference. In the event that you need to use the KNFB Reader, this product DOES NOT currently work on any phones running Windows Mobile operating systems. It works primarily on Nokia phones such as the N86, N82, and 6120 Classic to mention a few. To learn more about different phones that you can use with a screen reader, please consider subscribing to the Blind Phones List using the address below: blindphones-subscribe at mosenexplosion.com Hope the foregoing has been helpful. Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From steve.jacobson at visi.com Tue Mar 30 18:41:12 2010 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:41:12 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access In-Reply-To: <2852F843F2494C82BDB2382D12F4D541@14bd0130080a469> Message-ID: Cathryn, Like Joe, I am also using an accessible cellphone through Sprint. Maybe I can shed a little light on a couple of things. First, the KNFB Reader phone is as expensive as it is mostly because of the KNFB reader software rather than the phone. However the total price has come down to around $1,500. Of this, $995 is for the software that converts print into spoken text. That is about the same price as the K-1000 software that performs that function on a personal computer. Speaking very generally, the phone itself is roughly $300 and the software or "screen reader" that makes the phone functions talk is around another $200. The price estimated here for the phone is based upon buying a phone from a dealer without going through a phone company. Generally if you buy a phone through a service provider and sign a two year contract or renew one for two years, the phone company in effect subsidizes the cost of a new phone by $150 or $200 or so. Therefore, if you sign a new contract or extend an existing one, it is very possible that you can get a phone that can be made accessible for $100 or so, but you still have to buy a "screen reader" for the phone which will probably cost you another $200. However, as Joe mentioned, there are some phones out there which have some speech built in. These phones can cost you less than $100 with a new contract or an extension, and no screen reader is required. However, phones with built-in speech generally cannot handle e-mail or web browsing, but they can usually handle text messaging now and allow access to your contacts. I believe that Sprint still has the LG Rumor 2 and the LG Lotus and there could be others by now that fit this category. You cannot add a screen reader to just any phone. Like computers, the more advanced phones have "operating systems," and some of these do allow a screen reader to be added. The most common operating system on phones that can be used with Sprint and Verizon is called Windows Mobile. There is a screen reader called Mobile Speak that works with many of these phones. Such phones are sometimes called SmartPhones or Pocket PC's. Common brands include Samsung and Joe mentioned and also HTC but there are others. Many of the Palm phones cannot be used with a screen reader. Many of the phones that work on T-Mobil and AT&T use the Simbian operating system. There is another screen reader that is used on these phones called TALKS. However, Mobile Speak also works on some of these phones, and TALKS works on certain Verizon phones now. Phones made by Nokia are most common in this category, but not all Nokia phones are capablt of supporting a screen reader. I just went through the process of buying an HTC Snap phone which I use on Sprint with Mobile Speak, and I found the whole business to be confusing at best. Therefore, I hope the above helps a little, but keep in mind that something I have written could easily have become out of date since I started this note. Still, if you can keep in mind that some phones are simply not accessible, some have some built-in accessibility for basics, and some that use Windows Mobile or Simbian operating systems can be made accessible with the addition of a screen reader, you will be off to a good start. Then also remember that you can usually get a big discount buying a phone from a service provider with a new contract or contract extension. Good luck. Best regards, Steve Jacobson , On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: >Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice software to >install on a cell? >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Joe Orozco >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from Verizon, >better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through Verizon, I >think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak installed. >Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG line that >provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both carriers are >the best ones here in terms of reception. >Joe Orozco >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >Greetings to All: > >Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best >companies, etc. >for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't >have $2,000.00 >to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard the >frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with >disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. > I observed >yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are no >longer available. > >I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by seeking >wisdom from the group. > >Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for >listening- > >Cathryn >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >co%40gmail.com > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >http://www.eset.com > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >database 4985 (20100330) __________ >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >http://www.eset.com > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 >0verizon.net >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/30/10 >06:32:00 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From dandrews at visi.com Tue Mar 30 19:27:02 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:27:02 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> <01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> Message-ID: Mark: Two things: first, discussion of NFB philosophy is not really on topic for this list, nonetheless I will try and briefly answer your question. I think the problem comes in that you misunderstand why we aren't in favor of some audio pedestrian signals, some forms of currency identification etc. First, some of your language, that we "rail against" does not lend itself to reasoned discussion. Your examples to me imply that you think we are against any recognizable identification of blindness. This isn't the reason. I think as a group we are proud of ourselves as blind persons and what we have accomplished. On the other hand we feel that you should only ask for and use those accommodations that are necessary, and when there are other ways of accomplishing something, you should use those ways. You are drawing a black and white picture of the world, and NFB's reaction to it, and the true picture is much more nuanced. Dave At 04:51 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: >I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks >here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for >that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the >NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, >claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind >"want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I >hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a >symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so >that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of >the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB >might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of >blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't >understand this. From dandrews at visi.com Tue Mar 30 19:37:34 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:37:34 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Canes and Blindness In-Reply-To: <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Mark: I suppose it is a goal to "blend in and not stand out" as you say, but not just in a physical sense. I want to be a part of society, an equal, getting the bad and the good do along with my sighted counterparts. With the tools available to me today, cane, dog etc., I will always stand out some. So instead of trying to hide that I need to be proud of my blindness and promote a positive attitude towards those tools and blind people, so the stigma goes away. There is a stigma because we are not equals -- our unemployment rate etc. prove that. When we change that it won't matter that we carry a cane, use a dog etc. We won't change attitudes by not using canes and the like though. Dave At 08:00 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: >I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, >recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to >identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being >unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was >put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they >may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as >blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not >being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I >am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems >to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. >For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane >becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the identifying >mark by which blind people are known and warn their surroundings that >they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is one reason why I want >to use a cane that's other than white with a red tip. It is very true >that, even with my guide dog, when I wear sunglasses, I am often >mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog user. It's like that old >left-handed compliment, "No one would know you're blind, you do that >so well." That infuriates me when it's said to me. It seems that >some here are trying to avoid just this situation--being mistaken for >a sighted person--when I should think that was the ultimate goal of >any blind person--to blend in and not stand out. From agtolentino at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 19:42:23 2010 From: agtolentino at gmail.com (Aser Tolentino) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:42:23 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I thought I'd chime in with a note about VoiceOver on the iPhone. > Apple includes a mobile version of its screen reader as part of the > operating system. It works with all Apple apps and many third party > apps to varying degrees. I can type on the onscreen keyboard about > as fast as I could on a numeric keypad. The phone starts at $199 > with contract and runs about $90 a month for service. On Mar 30, 2010, at 11:41, "Steve Jacobson" wrote: > Cathryn, > > Like Joe, I am also using an accessible cellphone through Sprint. > Maybe I can shed a little light on a couple of things. > > First, the KNFB Reader phone is as expensive as it is mostly because > of the KNFB reader software rather than the phone. However the > total price has come down > to around $1,500. Of this, $995 is for the software that converts > print into spoken text. That is about the same price as the K-1000 > software that performs that > function on a personal computer. Speaking very generally, the phone > itself is roughly $300 and the software or "screen reader" that > makes the phone functions talk > is around another $200. The price estimated here for the phone is > based upon buying a phone from a dealer without going through a > phone company. Generally if > you buy a phone through a service provider and sign a two year > contract or renew one for two years, the phone company in effect > subsidizes the cost of a new > phone by $150 or $200 or so. Therefore, if you sign a new contract > or extend an existing one, it is very possible that you can get a > phone that can be made > accessible for $100 or so, but you still have to buy a "screen > reader" for the phone which will probably cost you another $200. > > However, as Joe mentioned, there are some phones out there which > have some speech built in. These phones can cost you less than $100 > with a new contract or > an extension, and no screen reader is required. However, phones > with built-in speech generally cannot handle e-mail or web browsing, > but they can usually handle > text messaging now and allow access to your contacts. I believe > that Sprint still has the LG Rumor 2 and the LG Lotus and there > could be others by now that fit this > category. > > You cannot add a screen reader to just any phone. Like computers, > the more advanced phones have "operating systems," and some of these > do allow a screen > reader to be added. The most common operating system on phones that > can be used with Sprint and Verizon is called Windows Mobile. There > is a screen reader > called Mobile Speak that works with many of these phones. Such > phones are sometimes called SmartPhones or Pocket PC's. Common > brands include Samsung > and Joe mentioned and also HTC but there are others. Many of the > Palm phones cannot be used with a screen reader. > > Many of the phones that work on T-Mobil and AT&T use the Simbian > operating system. There is another screen reader that is used on > these phones called TALKS. > However, Mobile Speak also works on some of these phones, and TALKS > works on certain Verizon phones now. Phones made by Nokia are most > common in this > category, but not all Nokia phones are capablt of supporting a > screen reader. > > I just went through the process of buying an HTC Snap phone which I > use on Sprint with Mobile Speak, and I found the whole business to > be confusing at best. > Therefore, I hope the above helps a little, but keep in mind that > something I have written could easily have become out of date since > I started this note. > Still, if you can keep in mind that some phones are simply not > accessible, some have some built-in accessibility for basics, and > some that use Windows Mobile or > Simbian operating systems can be made accessible with the addition > of a screen reader, you will be off to a good start. Then also > remember that you can usually get > a big discount buying a phone from a service provider with a new > contract or contract extension. Good luck. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson , > > On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: > >> Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice >> software to >> install on a cell? > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > >> I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from >> Verizon, >> better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through >> Verizon, I >> think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak >> installed. >> Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG >> line that >> provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both >> carriers are >> the best ones here in terms of reception. > >> Joe Orozco > >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > >> Greetings to All: > >> > >> Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best >> companies, etc. >> for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't >> have $2,000.00 >> to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard >> the >> frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with >> disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. >> I observed >> yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are >> no >> longer available. > >> > >> I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by >> seeking >> wisdom from the group. > >> > >> Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for >> listening- > >> > >> Cathryn > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >> co%40gmail.com >> > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4985 (20100330) __________ > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >> http://www.eset.com >> > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 >> 0verizon.net >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: >> 03/30/10 >> 06:32:00 > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com > From rumpole at roadrunner.com Tue Mar 30 21:52:00 2010 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:52:00 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus><01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> <64716459B89847DD9053C871AE5141EF@Scorpio13> Message-ID: Hey, before they cut off this thred of postings, where do I get one of those gold-plated canes again? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Hi Mark, > > With due respect, I think you are misunderstanding the NFB's philosophy > and > some of our positions. The NFB didn't oppose audible signals, or the > lawsuit > seeking identifiable money, because we don't believe that blind people > need > accommodations. What we believe is that blind people ought to have the > tools > and receive the accommodations that are necessary, not just every > conceivable accommodation. Now, you may well disagree with us on what > accommodations are necessary, and that is all well and good. Even our own > members don't always agree on everything, but we take a vote on the issues > we disagree on and once a position has been voted on we stick with it > until > there is a vote to change it. The white cane is a tool that many blind > people have found useful, primarily because it helps us get around. A > guide > dog is useful to other blind people for the same reason. In the NFB we > generally believe that a blind person should be able to have access to > these > tools and make choices about the ones they will use. Symbolically, the > white > cane is important because it means we believe it is respectable to be > blind, > but that's not the only or even the primary reason to carry one. If one > has > some vision, a white cane may be useful and will certainly avoid > misunderstandings arising from not being able to see very well. That said, > of course being identified as blind has its down sides. A lot of us have > decided that the benefits of carrying a cane outweigh those down sides. > > In a speech on the nature of independence, our long-time president Kenneth > Jernigan pointed out that the white cane and Braille are simply tools that > can make a person independent and that many blind people find useful. But > he > warned us against defining whether a person was independent based on > whether > or not they chose to use any given tool. Sometimes all of us forget this > warning, but I still think it is generally what we believe. We do push for > things like Braille literacy and cane training because those who are blind > or have low vision should know what all of their options are. It's fine to > make a choice, but we believe it should be an informed choice, and not one > that is merely made because one doesn't want to seem blind because of > society's attitude about blindness. Beyond that, the choice is up to the > individual blind person. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:51 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks here > are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that > matter. > I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB rails against > things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming that the blind > don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," whatever. Same with > identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a bunch of the same people > saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of blindness! I want to > proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can alter their behaviors > appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm blind!" I should think > the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a black cane and give no > indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I > just don't understand this. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4983 (20100329) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4983 (20100329) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2776 - Release Date: 03/28/10 18:32:00 From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 22:36:30 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:36:30 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Canes and Blindness In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <034501cad059$730318d0$59094a70$@com> >From my reading of Mark's statement....and he can defend his own....but I didn't see where he said not to use a cane. One problem in this e-mail trail and others is that many times, myself included, read what we want to out of a person's statement rather than what they really said. I guess, as in court, yowe cannot come to an amicable resolution if the facts are not taken into consideration. I'm sure there will be a statement regarding this one that may take a word or two out of context. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 2:38 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Canes and Blindness Mark: I suppose it is a goal to "blend in and not stand out" as you say, but not just in a physical sense. I want to be a part of society, an equal, getting the bad and the good do along with my sighted counterparts. With the tools available to me today, cane, dog etc., I will always stand out some. So instead of trying to hide that I need to be proud of my blindness and promote a positive attitude towards those tools and blind people, so the stigma goes away. There is a stigma because we are not equals -- our unemployment rate etc. prove that. When we change that it won't matter that we carry a cane, use a dog etc. We won't change attitudes by not using canes and the like though. Dave At 08:00 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: >I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, >recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to >identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being >unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was >put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they >may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as >blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not >being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I >am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems >to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. >For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane >becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the identifying >mark by which blind people are known and warn their surroundings that >they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is one reason why I want >to use a cane that's other than white with a red tip. It is very true >that, even with my guide dog, when I wear sunglasses, I am often >mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog user. It's like that old >left-handed compliment, "No one would know you're blind, you do that >so well." That infuriates me when it's said to me. It seems that >some here are trying to avoid just this situation--being mistaken for >a sighted person--when I should think that was the ultimate goal of >any blind person--to blend in and not stand out. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From rob.tabor at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 30 22:37:55 2010 From: rob.tabor at sbcglobal.net ( Rob Tabor) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:37:55 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net><9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net><861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> <1686D973-88E1-4ACB-85E6-C27F5E5CE2C6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Good evening. Although this thread of conversation began as something quite amuzing and at least arguably relevant to questions pertaining to alternately colored or multi-colored travel canes and their compliance with white cane laws it has evolved into an equally interesting but kokophanous diatribe over how we perceive one another and how the world perceives as people with blindness or otherwise low vision. In other words, the conversation is drifting far from being relevant to a blind lawyers' discussion list for which it is intended. I recognize, however, that Dave Anddrews has final judgment on this as list owner/moderator. Perhaps someone should start a philosophy of blindness discussion list where views like these can be aired and responded to. Best regards, Rob Tabor Vice president Douglas county (KS) Chapter NFB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Oh cut that out. I was born blind, too, and I don't have insecurities > about injuring someone; I've never been responsible for anyone else's > injury that I didn't mean to, so stop making it personal when I'm trying > to keep it general. Blindness is *NOT* a liability any more than > clumsiness or large feet. Having bright red hair can e a distraction > which can cause injury to someone who sees it. I protest loudly the idea > that blind people, especially high-end, intelligent, lawyer-type blind > people accept the fact that they may injure someone more readily than a > sighted person with two left feet might. When I see professionals who > are blind accepting this shame instead of actively working to correct it, > I am sad because this attitude will trickle down to disrupt my life when > I do something unconventional. So knock off that psychology crap, > please; I use a guide dog, not a cane anyway. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rob.tabor%40sbcglobal.net From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 22:41:23 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:41:23 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> <01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> Message-ID: <034601cad05a$20734620$6159d260$@com> I'm a member of NFB and have heard the things that Mark was speaking of. Dave, you may be taking your view which you stated. The fact is that there are many members who do what Mark spoke of. And the perception of many in the blind community is as such. I've heard an NFB member rail against the I-Phone because they wanted to dissuade a person from purchasing it so they could waste money on the KNFB reader which is way to expensive. I've heard many a philosophy on the use of straight canes and why we shouldn't use a folding cane. The list goes on and on. I think a point was being made that those who wish to disagree with mark are blatantly overlooking. Again, he can defend his own statements but I've been reading the e-mails relating to this topic. Once again, I and others have gotten on their soapbox on a topic that started lightly. Well, here's to reading some more. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 2:27 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane Mark: Two things: first, discussion of NFB philosophy is not really on topic for this list, nonetheless I will try and briefly answer your question. I think the problem comes in that you misunderstand why we aren't in favor of some audio pedestrian signals, some forms of currency identification etc. First, some of your language, that we "rail against" does not lend itself to reasoned discussion. Your examples to me imply that you think we are against any recognizable identification of blindness. This isn't the reason. I think as a group we are proud of ourselves as blind persons and what we have accomplished. On the other hand we feel that you should only ask for and use those accommodations that are necessary, and when there are other ways of accomplishing something, you should use those ways. You are drawing a black and white picture of the world, and NFB's reaction to it, and the true picture is much more nuanced. Dave At 04:51 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: >I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks >here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for >that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the >NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, >claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind >"want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I >hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a >symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so >that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of >the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB >might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of >blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't >understand this. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From dandrews at visi.com Tue Mar 30 23:41:33 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:41:33 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> <1686D973-88E1-4ACB-85E6-C27F5E5CE2C6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: There is -- try nfb-talk. To subscribe either go to: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org or send e-mail to nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org and put the word subscribe in the subject line by itself. Dave At 05:37 PM 3/30/2010, you wrote: >Good evening. > >Although this thread of conversation began as something quite >amuzing and at least arguably relevant to questions pertaining to >alternately colored or multi-colored travel canes and their >compliance with white cane laws it has evolved into an equally >interesting but kokophanous diatribe over how we perceive one >another and how the world perceives as people with blindness or >otherwise low vision. In other words, the conversation is drifting >far from being relevant to a blind lawyers' discussion list for >which it is intended. I recognize, however, that Dave Anddrews has >final judgment on this as list owner/moderator. Perhaps someone >should start a philosophy of blindness discussion list where views >like these can be aired and responded to. >Best regards, >Rob Tabor Vice president Douglas county (KS) Chapter NFB From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Tue Mar 30 23:42:43 2010 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:42:43 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access In-Reply-To: References: <2852F843F2494C82BDB2382D12F4D541@14bd0130080a469> Message-ID: <68E61DE2FA7F410EA387623187EB1870@Blind> Hello: I have had the nokia, forgot the model, running talks and then moved to the Motorola Q9 running mobilespeaks. At first I found Talks superior but it was obviously due to my familiarity with it and the Nokia I had been using. I soon discovered the "MotoQ" running the mobilespeaks software was much slicker. I had access to basically all blackberry type options although I did not pay for the internet and cannot say how that worked. Currently I am using an iPhone with "voiceover" which is inadequate if you are totally blind but usable with limited vision and worth the hassle. Jimi -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:41 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access Cathryn, Like Joe, I am also using an accessible cellphone through Sprint. Maybe I can shed a little light on a couple of things. First, the KNFB Reader phone is as expensive as it is mostly because of the KNFB reader software rather than the phone. However the total price has come down to around $1,500. Of this, $995 is for the software that converts print into spoken text. That is about the same price as the K-1000 software that performs that function on a personal computer. Speaking very generally, the phone itself is roughly $300 and the software or "screen reader" that makes the phone functions talk is around another $200. The price estimated here for the phone is based upon buying a phone from a dealer without going through a phone company. Generally if you buy a phone through a service provider and sign a two year contract or renew one for two years, the phone company in effect subsidizes the cost of a new phone by $150 or $200 or so. Therefore, if you sign a new contract or extend an existing one, it is very possible that you can get a phone that can be made accessible for $100 or so, but you still have to buy a "screen reader" for the phone which will probably cost you another $200. However, as Joe mentioned, there are some phones out there which have some speech built in. These phones can cost you less than $100 with a new contract or an extension, and no screen reader is required. However, phones with built-in speech generally cannot handle e-mail or web browsing, but they can usually handle text messaging now and allow access to your contacts. I believe that Sprint still has the LG Rumor 2 and the LG Lotus and there could be others by now that fit this category. You cannot add a screen reader to just any phone. Like computers, the more advanced phones have "operating systems," and some of these do allow a screen reader to be added. The most common operating system on phones that can be used with Sprint and Verizon is called Windows Mobile. There is a screen reader called Mobile Speak that works with many of these phones. Such phones are sometimes called SmartPhones or Pocket PC's. Common brands include Samsung and Joe mentioned and also HTC but there are others. Many of the Palm phones cannot be used with a screen reader. Many of the phones that work on T-Mobil and AT&T use the Simbian operating system. There is another screen reader that is used on these phones called TALKS. However, Mobile Speak also works on some of these phones, and TALKS works on certain Verizon phones now. Phones made by Nokia are most common in this category, but not all Nokia phones are capablt of supporting a screen reader. I just went through the process of buying an HTC Snap phone which I use on Sprint with Mobile Speak, and I found the whole business to be confusing at best. Therefore, I hope the above helps a little, but keep in mind that something I have written could easily have become out of date since I started this note. Still, if you can keep in mind that some phones are simply not accessible, some have some built-in accessibility for basics, and some that use Windows Mobile or Simbian operating systems can be made accessible with the addition of a screen reader, you will be off to a good start. Then also remember that you can usually get a big discount buying a phone from a service provider with a new contract or contract extension. Good luck. Best regards, Steve Jacobson , On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: >Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice software to >install on a cell? >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Joe Orozco >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from Verizon, >better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through Verizon, I >think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak installed. >Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG line that >provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both carriers are >the best ones here in terms of reception. >Joe Orozco >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >Greetings to All: > >Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best >companies, etc. >for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't >have $2,000.00 >to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard the >frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with >disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. > I observed >yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are no >longer available. > >I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by seeking >wisdom from the group. > >Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for >listening- > >Cathryn >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >co%40gmail.com > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >http://www.eset.com > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >database 4985 (20100330) __________ >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >http://www.eset.com > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally% 4 >0verizon.net >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/30/10 >06:32:00 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40 visi.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4986 (20100330) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4986 (20100330) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Mar 31 01:20:17 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:20:17 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement Message-ID: Dear all, On a more serious topic, what is the best course of action to take in a situation where police officers do not know of service animal accessibility laws, or will not enforce these laws even if they are aware of them? A couple of years ago I wound up suing a Chinatown curbside carrier for not allowing my Seeing Eye dog on one of their buses. Since that incident I have monitored other discrimination cases where the police officers on the scene either partially or mostly took the side of the public business, claiming the business could refuse whoever they want or suggesting alternative services to avoid future discrimination. In the moment it seems as though there is very little one can do to trump the authority of the local police department, which seems unfair, but there must surely be something one can do to educate what seems to be a widespread ignorance among the law enforcement community on the issue. Are there not standard training procedures for most law enforcement departments? Are there perhaps legal maneuvers one could use to catch the attention of departments that do not help protect the rights of service animal handlers? With all respect, please do not suggest my going through NAGDU. Otherwise, thank you in advance for any light you can shed. Regards, Joe Orozco "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4986 (20100330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 31 01:45:45 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:45:45 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <034601cad05a$20734620$6159d260$@com> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> <01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> <034601cad05a$20734620$6159d260$@com> Message-ID: I made a promise to take this off list, so that's why I'm not defending my statements. :) I'd just be repeating myself at this point; I have tried to make my words stand on their own, to not make it personal and to keep my rhetoric to a minimum. My apologies if I failed, but WB's right; things like the railing against the Iphone, the amazingly harsh status *AGAINST* guide dogs, etc., have really turned me off to NFB, as well as the whole "you will be assimilated," thing. This is why I don't join *ANY* organization; I just don't fit in. :) Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 31 03:17:38 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:17:38 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Joe, Much depends on the jurisdiction that you are in. One option is to request a police supervisor such as a sergeant or contact a shift or watch commander to address the issue. Here in California I am familiar with a situation where a guide dog user was not allowed in a store with his dog and the police warned the business owner that the dog user could sue him and file a civil rights complaint. The important thing is to know the laws in each jurisdiction as well as the relevant sections of the ADA regarding public businesses and accommodations. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 6:20 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement > Dear all, > > On a more serious topic, what is the best course of action to take in a > situation where police officers do not know of service animal > accessibility > laws, or will not enforce these laws even if they are aware of them? A > couple of years ago I wound up suing a Chinatown curbside carrier for not > allowing my Seeing Eye dog on one of their buses. Since that incident I > have monitored other discrimination cases where the police officers on the > scene either partially or mostly took the side of the public business, > claiming the business could refuse whoever they want or suggesting > alternative services to avoid future discrimination. In the moment it > seems > as though there is very little one can do to trump the authority of the > local police department, which seems unfair, but there must surely be > something one can do to educate what seems to be a widespread ignorance > among the law enforcement community on the issue. Are there not standard > training procedures for most law enforcement departments? Are there > perhaps > legal maneuvers one could use to catch the attention of departments that > do > not help protect the rights of service animal handlers? With all respect, > please do not suggest my going through NAGDU. Otherwise, thank you in > advance for any light you can shed. > > Regards, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4986 (20100330) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From rob.tabor at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 31 04:00:41 2010 From: rob.tabor at sbcglobal.net ( Rob Tabor) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:00:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement References: Message-ID: <3239D11BD0AD48EF8EC29BA6A3206D85@Rob> Hi, Joe and all. When I acquired my dog guide from The Seeing Eye® in 1980 all of us in the dog navigation training class were provided a copy of the dog guide use protection clause in the White Cane Act applicable to our respective home states. I suspect The Seeing Eye® and other dog guide training schools provide the same service to their graduates. That being the case, the obvious first step is to carry the document and show it to the officer who is questioning your right to bring the service animal. If the officer is not persuaded that s/he has seen the law of the land, the next step is to file a formal complaint with the chief of police or to follow whatever process or apparatus is available in your municipal government to launch a public grievance against the actions of the officer. There is always the option of taking one's complaint to the "court of public opinion" in the form of letters to the newspaper editor, contacting a newspaper or TV reporter about doing a feature on the issue, etc. If these kinder and gentler measures fail to yield the desired results, filing a law suit against the police department under Title 2 of ADA or the applicable state anti-discrimination law may prove to be necessary. One thinng is for sure. Either you will acquire a reputation in town as a troublemaker or people will learn you are not a person to be trifled with. Take your pick. In any event, good luck in these endeavors. best regards Rob Tabor, J.D, Vice president, Douglas County Chapter, NFB of Kansas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:20 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement > Dear all, > > On a more serious topic, what is the best course of action to take in a > situation where police officers do not know of service animal > accessibility > laws, or will not enforce these laws even if they are aware of them? A > couple of years ago I wound up suing a Chinatown curbside carrier for not > allowing my Seeing Eye dog on one of their buses. Since that incident I > have monitored other discrimination cases where the police officers on the > scene either partially or mostly took the side of the public business, > claiming the business could refuse whoever they want or suggesting > alternative services to avoid future discrimination. In the moment it > seems > as though there is very little one can do to trump the authority of the > local police department, which seems unfair, but there must surely be > something one can do to educate what seems to be a widespread ignorance > among the law enforcement community on the issue. Are there not standard > training procedures for most law enforcement departments? Are there > perhaps > legal maneuvers one could use to catch the attention of departments that > do > not help protect the rights of service animal handlers? With all respect, > please do not suggest my going through NAGDU. Otherwise, thank you in > advance for any light you can shed. > > Regards, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4986 (20100330) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rob.tabor%40sbcglobal.net From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Mar 31 15:42:15 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:42:15 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Arizona Attorney magazine Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D6CE1@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Does anyone else on the list practice in Arizona? I emailed the State Bar last week to find out if there was either a text-only on-line version of the Arizona Attorney magazine, or an audio version, as it has become increasingly difficult to read the publication even with my CCTV and/or screen magnification software. The format of the on-line version does not work at all with screen narration, as it keeps getting "off track" into the other fluff on the sides of the articles and notices. Of course, the Bar has not bothered to even acknowledge my email as of yet. So - would anyone on this list happen to know the answer? I ask because the magazine is often the first, or at least the most in-depth, notification of rule changes, convention information, etc. for Arizona.... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5675 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Mar 31 18:27:54 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:27:54 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Attorney-Adviser positions for HUD Message-ID: http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=87203119&JobTitle=Attorney-Adviser&lid=18612&rad_units=miles&brd=3876&pp=50&vw=b&re=4&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&caller=advanced.aspx&pg=3&where=Seattle%2c+WA&rad=20%2387116870&AVSDM=2010-03-31+09%3a04%3a00#duties Job Title: Attorney-Adviser Department: Department Of Housing And Urban Development Agency: Housing & Urban Development, Office of the Inspector General Sub Agency: Office of General Council Job Announcement Number: 10-HUDIG-148P SALARY RANGE: 101,035.00 - 155,500.00 USD /year OPEN PERIOD: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 to Friday, April 09, 2010 SERIES & GRADE: GS-0905-14/15 POSITION INFORMATION: Excepted Service Appointment This is a Full-Time appointment that can be either permanent or time limited in duration. The appointment type will be determined at the time of appointment. PROMOTION POTENTIAL: 15 DUTY LOCATIONS: 1 vacancy(s) in one of the following locations: Multiple duty locations - click here for more info WHO MAY BE CONSIDERED: Applications will be accepted from U.S. Citizens. *****Amended to Extend Closing Date and Clarify Duty Locations***** JOB SUMMARY: There is one (1) vacancy available in one of the following potential duty locations: Washington, DC; New York, NY; Atlanta, GA; Chicago, IL; Dallas, TX; Denver, CO; Seattle, WA; or Los Angeles, CA. The specific duty location will be determined after the selection is made. Applicants must designate preferred duty location(s) or be considered for them all. The Office of the Inspector General (OIG) has as its primary mission the detection and deterrence of fraud, waste, and abuse in the administration of over $30 billion in Federal funds each year by the U.S. Department of Housing & Urban Development (HUD). Through its programs, largely carried out by thousands of approved lenders and public housing authorities throughout the United States, HUD expands housing opportunities for American families by extending such benefits as mortgage insurance and rental subsidies for qualified persons. Employees of the OIG help to ensure that HUD funds are used only for the purposes for which they are intended, thereby ensuring maximum benefit to the American public. HUD OIG is recruiting to build, sustain, and deploy a skilled, knowledgeable, diverse, and high-performing workforce to meet the current and emerging needs of government and its citizens. The ability to speak Mien, one of the dialects of the three Lao hill tribes in northern Laos is desired. ________________________________ Key Requirements: All applicants must be U.S. Citizens. Back to top Duties Additional Duty Location Info: Washington, DC; New York City, NY; Atlanta, GA; Chicago, IL; Dallas, TX; Denver, CO; Seattle, WA; Los Angeles, CA The incumbent for this position assists the Counsel to the Inspector General in the following activities: provides legal advice and guidance on issues related to the conduct of OIG programs; provides legal services that run the full gamut of lawyer skills; coordinates OIG reviews of existing or proposed legislation, regulations, policies and procedures; provides on-site assistance to OIG investigators and auditors; represents the Inspector General when necessary; maintains a close and working relationship with HUD's Office of the General Counsel; in conjunction with the Department of Justice, represents the OIG in subpoena enforcement and other litigation. Back to top Qualifications and Evaluations QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED: In order for your application to be considered, you must meet the following requirements by the closing date of this announcement. Candidates must provide sufficient information at the time of the application to determine that the following requirements are met. If selected, you will need to verify that you meet these requirements before appointment. ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS All applicants must be U.S. Citizens. MINIMUM QUALIFICATION REQUIREMENTS For the GS-14 level applicants must: 1. Be a graduate of a law school accredited by the American Bar Association at the time of graduation; 2. Be a current member of a bar with a valid license to practice law in a state, territory of the United States, District of Columbia, or Commonwealth of Puerto Rico; and 3. Have at least four (4) years of professional experience. For the GS-15 level applicants must: 1. Be a graduate of a law school accredited by the American Bar Association at the time of graduation; 2. Be a current member of a bar with a valid license to practice law in a state, territory of the United States, District of Columbia, or Commonwealth of Puerto Rico; and 3. Have at least five (5) years of professional experience. HOW YOU WILL BE EVALUATED: Subject matter experts evaluate qualified applicants based on the extent to which their documented experience and/or education demonstrates possession of the following knowledge, skills and abilities (KSAs). As noted in the 'How to Apply' section of this announcement, applicants must provide a narrative statement, in addition to the application or résumé, individually addressing each of these KSAs separately in order to receive consideration. Knowledge, Skills and Abilities (KSAs) 1. Knowledge of laws and regulations which impact on OIG and HUD programs. 2. Knowledge of criminal and civil laws used to enforce or protect HUD programs. 3. Ability to organize people and support litigation in criminal cases or civil enforcement actions. 4. Ability to communicate effectively both orally and in writing. Back to top Benefits and Other Info BENEFITS: Federal employee benefit information can be accessed http://www.usajobs.gov/EI/benefits.asp#icc OTHER INFORMATION: ** If you are hired under a time-limited appointment, the appointment will be made for a period not to exceed 2 years. The appointment may be extended up to a total of 4 years or may be made permanent without further competition if all legal requirements are met. ** Payment of Relocation Expenses is Not Authorized. This announcement may be used to fill one or more vacancies. Selection(s) may be made from this vacancy announcement 10-HUDIG-148P, or from any other appropriate source. Applicants selected under this announcement may be required to serve a two-year trial period. Federal law requires verification of the identity and employment eligibility of all new hires in the United States. If your identity and employment eligibility cannot be confirmed, you may be terminated. In accordance with Homeland Security Presidential Directive 12, the selectee(s) must be eligible to receive a Personal Identity Verification (PIV) credential. If selected, you must: 1. Present 2 acceptable, authentic "identity source documents," at least one of which is a valid Federal or State government issued picture ID (for a list of identity source documents, visit www.osec.doc.gov/osy/HSPD12/PDF/i-9.pdf; 2. Receive a favorable detailed background check; and 3. Maintain eligibility for a PIV credential during your employment with the Department of Housing and Urban Development, Office of Inspector General as described by #1 and #2 above. CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT Individuals selected for these positions must: Pass a pre-employment suitability inquiry. Pass a detailed background investigation. Provide a confidential financial disclosure statement. Back to top How To Apply HOW TO APPLY: Make certain you have provided all the information needed to fully describe your eligibility and qualifications for this position. Although we will notify you as to the status of your application, we will not contact you to solicit information you have not provided. That information could be the difference between your being considered and being found ineligible or unqualified. Applications will not be returned. The following materials are required: 1. An application such as Optional Application for Federal Employment (OF-612), or résumé. Include the vacancy announcement number and work experience, training, education, and awards relevant to the qualification requirements. For work experience, specify the dates and number of hours per week. For training or self-development activities, specify course titles, classroom hours completed, and dates. Do not send position descriptions. 2. A narrative description, in addition to the application or résumé, of how your experience, training, etc. demonstrates your possession of each of the KSAs specified in the "How You Will Be Evaluated" section of this announcement. Address each KSA separately. 3. For Applicants Claiming Veterans' Preference: Form DD-214 or other official documentation from a branch of the Armed Forces or Department of Veterans Affairs (VA). Eligibles claiming 10-point preference must also submit an Application for 10-Point Veteran Preference, SF-15, along with the required documentation listed on the back of the SF-15. 4. A writing sample. 5. Indication of bar membership. Proof of bar membership will be verified if selected. In addition, the following materials are recommended: A copy of your most recent performance appraisal with the evaluation/rating. ________________________________ Where to Apply: The HUD OIG has contracted with the Treasury's Bureau of the Public Debt (BPD) to provide certain personnel services to its organization. BPD's responsibilities include advertising the vacancies, accepting and handling applications, and extending job offers. Applications and other forms may be mailed to the address under contact information. Complete application packages must be postmarked by the closing date of this announcement. Application materials submitted electronically will not be accepted. ________________________________ For Assistance: For more information, contact the Human Resources Specialist listed under "Contact Information" below. Anyone needing a reasonable accommodation for any part of the application and hiring process for this vacancy may contact the Human Resources Specialist listed under "Contact Information" below. AGENCY CONTACT INFO: Human Resources Specialist: Tim Hathaway Phone: 304-480-8356 Fax: 304-480-8358 Email: HUDIGinquiries at bpd.treas.gov Agency Information: FESB-HUDIG, Room A2-F Public Debt Warehouse & Operations Center Dock 1 257 Bosley Industrial Park Drive Parkersburg, WV 26101 US Fax: 304-480-8358 WHAT TO EXPECT NEXT: You will be notified, via US mail, as to the status of your application during each stage of the hiring process. Please notify us if your contact information changes after the closing date of the announcement. Back to top -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 106 bytes Desc: image001.gif URL: From b75205 at gmail.com Wed Mar 31 20:39:44 2010 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:39:44 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement In-Reply-To: <3239D11BD0AD48EF8EC29BA6A3206D85@Rob> References: <3239D11BD0AD48EF8EC29BA6A3206D85@Rob> Message-ID: Face it, we are all trouble makers! James Pepper From bnaccari at cox.net Wed Mar 31 20:44:25 2010 From: bnaccari at cox.net (Bruce E. Naccari) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:44:25 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20100331164425.82BYP.88872.imail@eastrmwml28> On the topic of how one can best proceed to get enforcement of the rights of guide dog users and the White Cane laws: Many municipalities and states have Human rights Commissions or Human Relations Commissions with rather broad powers to enforce state or local antidiscrimination laws and to assess and then seek to achieve a conciliation of grievances involving discrimination complaints or complaints of poor relations between or among groups in the population. If your locality or state has such an agency, anyone with a grievance involving police failure or business or public accommodation operators’ failures to enforce and/or comply with the White Cane laws and laws protecting the right to use service animals like guide dogs should in my opinion consider filing a complaint there. Because these agencies usually are charged with a duty to try to achieve an amicable conciliation of the complaint before a hearing can be held, their procedures are useful for achieving results in cases of deprivation of rights with no or low special damages in dollars and where litigation would be lengthy and a judge with the discretion to do so might not grant adequate attorney’s fees. While I served first as Legal Counsel to the New Orleans Commission and then later as a commissioner we successfully conciliated several complaints against restaurants, bars, taxi companies, etc., involving the exclusion of guide dogs and discrimination against blind customers. In my opinion getting such a commission to become your advocate with the local police will likely prove to be more fruitful than filing Internal Affairs Division/public Integrity Division complaints with eh police department. Police tend to stiffen and back each other when a complaint is filed against one of their own but will often respond amicably and cooperatively to conciliatory procedures which seem less like an attack. And if there is a local or state Commission of this sort I would contact it to ask it in a formal petition to ensure that Police Officer Standard Training classes and/or Police Academy classes in your jurisdiction are getting adequate education about the White Cane laws and the pertinent antidiscrimination laws and about the rights of cane and service animal users. I will leave it to the wisdom of the NFB’s government relations staff and lobbyists to decide if it would be worth the time and effort to draft model amendments to the pertinent laws that would if enacted explicitly require POST an similar training of law enforcement officers to include formal instruction in this area and to require that applicants for driver’s licenses when tested show familiarity with the White Cane safety laws. ---- blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org wrote: > Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) > 2. Re: A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access (Steve Jacobson) > 3. Re: Pimp My Cane (David Andrews) > 4. Canes and Blindness (David Andrews) > 5. Re: A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access (Aser Tolentino) > 6. Re: Pimp My Cane (Ross Doerr) > 7. Re: Canes and Blindness (WB) > 8. Re: Pimp My Cane ( Rob Tabor) > 9. Re: Pimp My Cane (WB) > 10. Re: Pimp My Cane (David Andrews) > 11. Re: A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access (James Weisberg) > 12. Educating Law Enforcement (Joe Orozco) > 13. Re: Pimp My Cane (Mark BurningHawk) > 14. Re: Educating Law Enforcement (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) > 15. Re: Educating Law Enforcement ( Rob Tabor) > 16. Arizona Attorney magazine (Susan Kelly) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:18:38 -0600 > From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > Message-ID: <1396EC6B323A463B922D4F129B95066D at valtd> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Cathryn: > > MobileSpeak, the competition for cell phone screen reader, will also work on > the HTC Ozone if you choose to stay with Verizon. > > Aside from these, there are several mostly Nokia phones that Talks can run > on. Here are a few: N85, N86, 6120 Classic, E65, E66, E61I, N95, N96, ETC. > I hear that the new Talks5 soon to be released will even work on Nokia Touch > Screen phones. > > Please note that Nokia phones use GSM technology; if you choose a Nokia > phone, you will be stuck with either AT&T or T-Mobile for the most part. It > is my understanding that the HTC Ozone supports both GSM and CDMA platforms; > with this phone, you can still keep Verizon if that is your preference. > > In the event that you need to use the KNFB Reader, this product DOES NOT > currently work on any phones running Windows Mobile operating systems. It > works primarily on Nokia phones such as the N86, N82, and 6120 Classic to > mention a few. > > To learn more about different phones that you can use with a screen reader, > please consider subscribing to the Blind Phones List using the address > below: > > blindphones-subscribe at mosenexplosion.com > > Hope the foregoing has been helpful. > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:41:12 -0500 > From: "Steve Jacobson" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Cathryn, > > Like Joe, I am also using an accessible cellphone through Sprint. Maybe I can shed a little light on a couple of things. > > First, the KNFB Reader phone is as expensive as it is mostly because of the KNFB reader software rather than the phone. However the total price has come down > to around $1,500. Of this, $995 is for the software that converts print into spoken text. That is about the same price as the K-1000 software that performs that > function on a personal computer. Speaking very generally, the phone itself is roughly $300 and the software or "screen reader" that makes the phone functions talk > is around another $200. The price estimated here for the phone is based upon buying a phone from a dealer without going through a phone company. Generally if > you buy a phone through a service provider and sign a two year contract or renew one for two years, the phone company in effect subsidizes the cost of a new > phone by $150 or $200 or so. Therefore, if you sign a new contract or extend an existing one, it is very possible that you can get a phone that can be made > accessible for $100 or so, but you still have to buy a "screen reader" for the phone which will probably cost you another $200. > > However, as Joe mentioned, there are some phones out there which have some speech built in. These phones can cost you less than $100 with a new contract or > an extension, and no screen reader is required. However, phones with built-in speech generally cannot handle e-mail or web browsing, but they can usually handle > text messaging now and allow access to your contacts. I believe that Sprint still has the LG Rumor 2 and the LG Lotus and there could be others by now that fit this > category. > > You cannot add a screen reader to just any phone. Like computers, the more advanced phones have "operating systems," and some of these do allow a screen > reader to be added. The most common operating system on phones that can be used with Sprint and Verizon is called Windows Mobile. There is a screen reader > called Mobile Speak that works with many of these phones. Such phones are sometimes called SmartPhones or Pocket PC's. Common brands include Samsung > and Joe mentioned and also HTC but there are others. Many of the Palm phones cannot be used with a screen reader. > > Many of the phones that work on T-Mobil and AT&T use the Simbian operating system. There is another screen reader that is used on these phones called TALKS. > However, Mobile Speak also works on some of these phones, and TALKS works on certain Verizon phones now. Phones made by Nokia are most common in this > category, but not all Nokia phones are capablt of supporting a screen reader. > > I just went through the process of buying an HTC Snap phone which I use on Sprint with Mobile Speak, and I found the whole business to be confusing at best. > Therefore, I hope the above helps a little, but keep in mind that something I have written could easily have become out of date since I started this note. > Still, if you can keep in mind that some phones are simply not accessible, some have some built-in accessibility for basics, and some that use Windows Mobile or > Simbian operating systems can be made accessible with the addition of a screen reader, you will be off to a good start. Then also remember that you can usually get > a big discount buying a phone from a service provider with a new contract or contract extension. Good luck. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson , > > On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: > > >Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice software to > >install on a cell? > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >Behalf Of Joe Orozco > >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM > >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > > >I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from Verizon, > >better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through Verizon, I > >think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak installed. > >Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG line that > >provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both carriers are > >the best ones here in terms of reception. > > >Joe Orozco > > >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette > >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM > >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > >Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > > >Greetings to All: > > > > > >Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best > >companies, etc. > >for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't > >have $2,000.00 > >to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard the > >frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with > >disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. > > I observed > >yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are no > >longer available. > > > > > >I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by seeking > >wisdom from the group. > > > > > >Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for > >listening- > > > > > >Cathryn > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >info for blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > >co%40gmail.com > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > >virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ > > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > >database 4985 (20100330) __________ > > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 > >0verizon.net > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/30/10 > >06:32:00 > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:27:02 -0500 > From: David Andrews > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Mark: > > Two things: first, discussion of NFB philosophy is not really on > topic for this list, nonetheless I will try and briefly answer your > question. I think the problem comes in that you misunderstand why we > aren't in favor of some audio pedestrian signals, some forms of > currency identification etc. First, some of your language, that we > "rail against" does not lend itself to reasoned discussion. Your > examples to me imply that you think we are against any recognizable > identification of blindness. This isn't the reason. I think as a > group we are proud of ourselves as blind persons and what we have accomplished. > > On the other hand we feel that you should only ask for and use those > accommodations that are necessary, and when there are other ways of > accomplishing something, you should use those ways. > > You are drawing a black and white picture of the world, and NFB's > reaction to it, and the true picture is much more nuanced. > > Dave > > At 04:51 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: > >I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks > >here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for > >that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the > >NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, > >claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind > >"want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I > >hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a > >symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so > >that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of > >the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB > >might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of > >blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't > >understand this. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:37:34 -0500 > From: David Andrews > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Canes and Blindness > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Mark: > > I suppose it is a goal to "blend in and not stand out" as you say, > but not just in a physical sense. I want to be a part of society, an > equal, getting the bad and the good do along with my sighted > counterparts. With the tools available to me today, cane, dog etc., > I will always stand out some. So instead of trying to hide that I > need to be proud of my blindness and promote a positive attitude > towards those tools and blind people, so the stigma goes away. There > is a stigma because we are not equals -- our unemployment rate etc. > prove that. When we change that it won't matter that we carry a > cane, use a dog etc. We won't change attitudes by not using canes > and the like though. > > Dave > > At 08:00 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: > >I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, > >recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to > >identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being > >unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was > >put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they > >may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as > >blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not > >being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I > >am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems > >to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. > >For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane > >becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the identifying > >mark by which blind people are known and warn their surroundings that > >they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is one reason why I want > >to use a cane that's other than white with a red tip. It is very true > >that, even with my guide dog, when I wear sunglasses, I am often > >mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog user. It's like that old > >left-handed compliment, "No one would know you're blind, you do that > >so well." That infuriates me when it's said to me. It seems that > >some here are trying to avoid just this situation--being mistaken for > >a sighted person--when I should think that was the ultimate goal of > >any blind person--to blend in and not stand out. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:42:23 -0700 > From: Aser Tolentino > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > > I thought I'd chime in with a note about VoiceOver on the iPhone. > > Apple includes a mobile version of its screen reader as part of the > > operating system. It works with all Apple apps and many third party > > apps to varying degrees. I can type on the onscreen keyboard about > > as fast as I could on a numeric keypad. The phone starts at $199 > > with contract and runs about $90 a month for service. > > On Mar 30, 2010, at 11:41, "Steve Jacobson" > wrote: > > > Cathryn, > > > > Like Joe, I am also using an accessible cellphone through Sprint. > > Maybe I can shed a little light on a couple of things. > > > > First, the KNFB Reader phone is as expensive as it is mostly because > > of the KNFB reader software rather than the phone. However the > > total price has come down > > to around $1,500. Of this, $995 is for the software that converts > > print into spoken text. That is about the same price as the K-1000 > > software that performs that > > function on a personal computer. Speaking very generally, the phone > > itself is roughly $300 and the software or "screen reader" that > > makes the phone functions talk > > is around another $200. The price estimated here for the phone is > > based upon buying a phone from a dealer without going through a > > phone company. Generally if > > you buy a phone through a service provider and sign a two year > > contract or renew one for two years, the phone company in effect > > subsidizes the cost of a new > > phone by $150 or $200 or so. Therefore, if you sign a new contract > > or extend an existing one, it is very possible that you can get a > > phone that can be made > > accessible for $100 or so, but you still have to buy a "screen > > reader" for the phone which will probably cost you another $200. > > > > However, as Joe mentioned, there are some phones out there which > > have some speech built in. These phones can cost you less than $100 > > with a new contract or > > an extension, and no screen reader is required. However, phones > > with built-in speech generally cannot handle e-mail or web browsing, > > but they can usually handle > > text messaging now and allow access to your contacts. I believe > > that Sprint still has the LG Rumor 2 and the LG Lotus and there > > could be others by now that fit this > > category. > > > > You cannot add a screen reader to just any phone. Like computers, > > the more advanced phones have "operating systems," and some of these > > do allow a screen > > reader to be added. The most common operating system on phones that > > can be used with Sprint and Verizon is called Windows Mobile. There > > is a screen reader > > called Mobile Speak that works with many of these phones. Such > > phones are sometimes called SmartPhones or Pocket PC's. Common > > brands include Samsung > > and Joe mentioned and also HTC but there are others. Many of the > > Palm phones cannot be used with a screen reader. > > > > Many of the phones that work on T-Mobil and AT&T use the Simbian > > operating system. There is another screen reader that is used on > > these phones called TALKS. > > However, Mobile Speak also works on some of these phones, and TALKS > > works on certain Verizon phones now. Phones made by Nokia are most > > common in this > > category, but not all Nokia phones are capablt of supporting a > > screen reader. > > > > I just went through the process of buying an HTC Snap phone which I > > use on Sprint with Mobile Speak, and I found the whole business to > > be confusing at best. > > Therefore, I hope the above helps a little, but keep in mind that > > something I have written could easily have become out of date since > > I started this note. > > Still, if you can keep in mind that some phones are simply not > > accessible, some have some built-in accessibility for basics, and > > some that use Windows Mobile or > > Simbian operating systems can be made accessible with the addition > > of a screen reader, you will be off to a good start. Then also > > remember that you can usually get > > a big discount buying a phone from a service provider with a new > > contract or contract extension. Good luck. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Steve Jacobson , > > > > On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: > > > >> Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice > >> software to > >> install on a cell? > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- > >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >> Behalf Of Joe Orozco > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM > >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > > > >> I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from > >> Verizon, > >> better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through > >> Verizon, I > >> think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak > >> installed. > >> Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG > >> line that > >> provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both > >> carriers are > >> the best ones here in terms of reception. > > > >> Joe Orozco > > > >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > >> sleeves, > >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM > >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > >> Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > > > >> Greetings to All: > > > >> > > > >> Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best > >> companies, etc. > >> for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't > >> have $2,000.00 > >> to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard > >> the > >> frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with > >> disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. > >> I observed > >> yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are > >> no > >> longer available. > > > >> > > > >> I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by > >> seeking > >> wisdom from the group. > > > >> > > > >> Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for > >> listening- > > > >> > > > >> Cathryn > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for blindlaw: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > >> co%40gmail.com > >> > > > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > >> virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ > > > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > >> http://www.eset.com > >> > >> > > > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > >> signature > >> database 4985 (20100330) __________ > > > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > >> http://www.eset.com > >> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 > >> 0verizon.net > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: > >> 03/30/10 > >> 06:32:00 > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for blindlaw: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:52:00 -0400 > From: "Ross Doerr" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hey, before they cut off this thred of postings, where do I get one of those > gold-plated canes again? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Danielsen" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 6:43 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > > > Hi Mark, > > > > With due respect, I think you are misunderstanding the NFB's philosophy > > and > > some of our positions. The NFB didn't oppose audible signals, or the > > lawsuit > > seeking identifiable money, because we don't believe that blind people > > need > > accommodations. What we believe is that blind people ought to have the > > tools > > and receive the accommodations that are necessary, not just every > > conceivable accommodation. Now, you may well disagree with us on what > > accommodations are necessary, and that is all well and good. Even our own > > members don't always agree on everything, but we take a vote on the issues > > we disagree on and once a position has been voted on we stick with it > > until > > there is a vote to change it. The white cane is a tool that many blind > > people have found useful, primarily because it helps us get around. A > > guide > > dog is useful to other blind people for the same reason. In the NFB we > > generally believe that a blind person should be able to have access to > > these > > tools and make choices about the ones they will use. Symbolically, the > > white > > cane is important because it means we believe it is respectable to be > > blind, > > but that's not the only or even the primary reason to carry one. If one > > has > > some vision, a white cane may be useful and will certainly avoid > > misunderstandings arising from not being able to see very well. That said, > > of course being identified as blind has its down sides. A lot of us have > > decided that the benefits of carrying a cane outweigh those down sides. > > > > In a speech on the nature of independence, our long-time president Kenneth > > Jernigan pointed out that the white cane and Braille are simply tools that > > can make a person independent and that many blind people find useful. But > > he > > warned us against defining whether a person was independent based on > > whether > > or not they chose to use any given tool. Sometimes all of us forget this > > warning, but I still think it is generally what we believe. We do push for > > things like Braille literacy and cane training because those who are blind > > or have low vision should know what all of their options are. It's fine to > > make a choice, but we believe it should be an informed choice, and not one > > that is merely made because one doesn't want to seem blind because of > > society's attitude about blindness. Beyond that, the choice is up to the > > individual blind person. > > > > Chris > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk > > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:51 PM > > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > > > I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks here > > are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that > > matter. > > I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB rails against > > things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming that the blind > > don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," whatever. Same with > > identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a bunch of the same people > > saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of blindness! I want to > > proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can alter their behaviors > > appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm blind!" I should think > > the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a black cane and give no > > indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I > > just don't understand this. > > > > Mark BurningHawk > > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > > Namaste! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > > com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature > > database 4983 (20100329) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature > > database 4983 (20100329) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2776 - Release Date: 03/28/10 > 18:32:00 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:36:30 -0500 > From: "WB" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Canes and Blindness > Message-ID: <034501cad059$730318d0$59094a70$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > >From my reading of Mark's statement....and he can defend his own....but I > didn't see where he said not to use a cane. > > One problem in this e-mail trail and others is that many times, myself > included, read what we want to out of a person's statement rather than what > they really said. I guess, as in court, yowe cannot come to an amicable > resolution if the facts are not taken into consideration. > > I'm sure there will be a statement regarding this one that may take a word > or two out of context. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of David Andrews > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 2:38 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Canes and Blindness > > Mark: > > I suppose it is a goal to "blend in and not stand out" as you say, > but not just in a physical sense. I want to be a part of society, an > equal, getting the bad and the good do along with my sighted > counterparts. With the tools available to me today, cane, dog etc., > I will always stand out some. So instead of trying to hide that I > need to be proud of my blindness and promote a positive attitude > towards those tools and blind people, so the stigma goes away. There > is a stigma because we are not equals -- our unemployment rate etc. > prove that. When we change that it won't matter that we carry a > cane, use a dog etc. We won't change attitudes by not using canes > and the like though. > > Dave > > At 08:00 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: > >I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, > >recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to > >identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being > >unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was > >put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they > >may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as > >blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not > >being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I > >am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems > >to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. > >For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane > >becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the identifying > >mark by which blind people are known and warn their surroundings that > >they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is one reason why I want > >to use a cane that's other than white with a red tip. It is very true > >that, even with my guide dog, when I wear sunglasses, I am often > >mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog user. It's like that old > >left-handed compliment, "No one would know you're blind, you do that > >so well." That infuriates me when it's said to me. It seems that > >some here are trying to avoid just this situation--being mistaken for > >a sighted person--when I should think that was the ultimate goal of > >any blind person--to blend in and not stand out. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:37:55 -0500 > From: " Rob Tabor" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Good evening. > > Although this thread of conversation began as something quite amuzing and at > least arguably relevant to questions pertaining to alternately colored or > multi-colored travel canes and their compliance with white cane laws it has > evolved into an equally interesting but kokophanous diatribe over how we > perceive one another and how the world perceives as people with blindness or > otherwise low vision. In other words, the conversation is drifting far from > being relevant to a blind lawyers' discussion list for which it is intended. > I recognize, however, that Dave Anddrews has final judgment on this as list > owner/moderator. Perhaps someone should start a philosophy of blindness > discussion list where views like these can be aired and responded to. > Best regards, > Rob Tabor Vice president Douglas county (KS) Chapter NFB > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark BurningHawk" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 5:48 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > > > Oh cut that out. I was born blind, too, and I don't have insecurities > > about injuring someone; I've never been responsible for anyone else's > > injury that I didn't mean to, so stop making it personal when I'm trying > > to keep it general. Blindness is *NOT* a liability any more than > > clumsiness or large feet. Having bright red hair can e a distraction > > which can cause injury to someone who sees it. I protest loudly the idea > > that blind people, especially high-end, intelligent, lawyer-type blind > > people accept the fact that they may injure someone more readily than a > > sighted person with two left feet might. When I see professionals who > > are blind accepting this shame instead of actively working to correct it, > > I am sad because this attitude will trickle down to disrupt my life when > > I do something unconventional. So knock off that psychology crap, > > please; I use a guide dog, not a cane anyway. > > > > Mark BurningHawk > > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > > Namaste! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rob.tabor%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:41:23 -0500 > From: "WB" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Message-ID: <034601cad05a$20734620$6159d260$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I'm a member of NFB and have heard the things that Mark was speaking of. > Dave, you may be taking your view which you stated. The fact is that there > are many members who do what Mark spoke of. And the perception of many in > the blind community is as such. > > I've heard an NFB member rail against the I-Phone because they wanted to > dissuade a person from purchasing it so they could waste money on the KNFB > reader which is way to expensive. I've heard many a philosophy on the use > of straight canes and why we shouldn't use a folding cane. > > The list goes on and on. I think a point was being made that those who wish > to disagree with mark are blatantly overlooking. > > Again, he can defend his own statements but I've been reading the e-mails > relating to this topic. Once again, I and others have gotten on their > soapbox on a topic that started lightly. Well, here's to reading some more. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of David Andrews > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 2:27 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > Mark: > > Two things: first, discussion of NFB philosophy is not really on > topic for this list, nonetheless I will try and briefly answer your > question. I think the problem comes in that you misunderstand why we > aren't in favor of some audio pedestrian signals, some forms of > currency identification etc. First, some of your language, that we > "rail against" does not lend itself to reasoned discussion. Your > examples to me imply that you think we are against any recognizable > identification of blindness. This isn't the reason. I think as a > group we are proud of ourselves as blind persons and what we have > accomplished. > > On the other hand we feel that you should only ask for and use those > accommodations that are necessary, and when there are other ways of > accomplishing something, you should use those ways. > > You are drawing a black and white picture of the world, and NFB's > reaction to it, and the true picture is much more nuanced. > > Dave > > At 04:51 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: > >I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks > >here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for > >that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the > >NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, > >claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind > >"want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I > >hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a > >symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so > >that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of > >the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB > >might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of > >blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't > >understand this. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:41:33 -0500 > From: David Andrews > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > There is -- try nfb-talk. To subscribe either go to: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org > > or send e-mail to nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org and put the word > subscribe in the subject line by itself. > > Dave > > At 05:37 PM 3/30/2010, you wrote: > >Good evening. > > > >Although this thread of conversation began as something quite > >amuzing and at least arguably relevant to questions pertaining to > >alternately colored or multi-colored travel canes and their > >compliance with white cane laws it has evolved into an equally > >interesting but kokophanous diatribe over how we perceive one > >another and how the world perceives as people with blindness or > >otherwise low vision. In other words, the conversation is drifting > >far from being relevant to a blind lawyers' discussion list for > >which it is intended. I recognize, however, that Dave Anddrews has > >final judgment on this as list owner/moderator. Perhaps someone > >should start a philosophy of blindness discussion list where views > >like these can be aired and responded to. > >Best regards, > >Rob Tabor Vice president Douglas county (KS) Chapter NFB > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:42:43 -0700 > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > Message-ID: <68E61DE2FA7F410EA387623187EB1870 at Blind> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hello: > > I have had the nokia, forgot the model, running talks and then moved to the > Motorola Q9 running mobilespeaks. At first I found Talks superior but it > was obviously due to my familiarity with it and the Nokia I had been using. > I soon discovered the "MotoQ" running the mobilespeaks software was much > slicker. I had access to basically all blackberry type options although I > did not pay for the internet and cannot say how that worked. Currently I am > using an iPhone with "voiceover" which is inadequate if you are totally > blind but usable with limited vision and worth the hassle. > > Jimi > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve Jacobson > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:41 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > > Cathryn, > > Like Joe, I am also using an accessible cellphone through Sprint. Maybe I > can shed a little light on a couple of things. > > First, the KNFB Reader phone is as expensive as it is mostly because of the > KNFB reader software rather than the phone. However the total price has > come down > to around $1,500. Of this, $995 is for the software that converts print > into spoken text. That is about the same price as the K-1000 software that > performs that > function on a personal computer. Speaking very generally, the phone itself > is roughly $300 and the software or "screen reader" that makes the phone > functions talk > is around another $200. The price estimated here for the phone is based > upon buying a phone from a dealer without going through a phone company. > Generally if > you buy a phone through a service provider and sign a two year contract or > renew one for two years, the phone company in effect subsidizes the cost of > a new > phone by $150 or $200 or so. Therefore, if you sign a new contract or > extend an existing one, it is very possible that you can get a phone that > can be made > accessible for $100 or so, but you still have to buy a "screen reader" for > the phone which will probably cost you another $200. > > However, as Joe mentioned, there are some phones out there which have some > speech built in. These phones can cost you less than $100 with a new > contract or > an extension, and no screen reader is required. However, phones with > built-in speech generally cannot handle e-mail or web browsing, but they can > usually handle > text messaging now and allow access to your contacts. I believe that Sprint > still has the LG Rumor 2 and the LG Lotus and there could be others by now > that fit this > category. > > You cannot add a screen reader to just any phone. Like computers, the more > advanced phones have "operating systems," and some of these do allow a > screen > reader to be added. The most common operating system on phones that can be > used with Sprint and Verizon is called Windows Mobile. There is a screen > reader > called Mobile Speak that works with many of these phones. Such phones are > sometimes called SmartPhones or Pocket PC's. Common brands include Samsung > and Joe mentioned and also HTC but there are others. Many of the Palm > phones cannot be used with a screen reader. > > Many of the phones that work on T-Mobil and AT&T use the Simbian operating > system. There is another screen reader that is used on these phones called > TALKS. > However, Mobile Speak also works on some of these phones, and TALKS works on > certain Verizon phones now. Phones made by Nokia are most common in this > category, but not all Nokia phones are capablt of supporting a screen > reader. > > I just went through the process of buying an HTC Snap phone which I use on > Sprint with Mobile Speak, and I found the whole business to be confusing at > best. > Therefore, I hope the above helps a little, but keep in mind that something > I have written could easily have become out of date since I started this > note. > Still, if you can keep in mind that some phones are simply not accessible, > some have some built-in accessibility for basics, and some that use Windows > Mobile or > Simbian operating systems can be made accessible with the addition of a > screen reader, you will be off to a good start. Then also remember that you > can usually get > a big discount buying a phone from a service provider with a new contract or > contract extension. Good luck. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson , > > On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: > > >Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice software > to > >install on a cell? > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >Behalf Of Joe Orozco > >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM > >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > > >I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from Verizon, > >better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through Verizon, I > >think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak > installed. > >Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG line that > >provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both carriers are > >the best ones here in terms of reception. > > >Joe Orozco > > >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette > >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM > >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > >Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > > >Greetings to All: > > > > > >Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best > >companies, etc. > >for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't > >have $2,000.00 > >to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard the > >frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with > >disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. > > I observed > >yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are no > >longer available. > > > > > >I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by seeking > >wisdom from the group. > > > > > >Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for > >listening- > > > > > >Cathryn > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >info for blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > >co%40gmail.com > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > >virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ > > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > >database 4985 (20100330) __________ > > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally% > 4 > >0verizon.net > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/30/10 > >06:32:00 > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40 > visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4986 (20100330) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4986 (20100330) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:20:17 -0400 > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear all, > > On a more serious topic, what is the best course of action to take in a > situation where police officers do not know of service animal accessibility > laws, or will not enforce these laws even if they are aware of them? A > couple of years ago I wound up suing a Chinatown curbside carrier for not > allowing my Seeing Eye dog on one of their buses. Since that incident I > have monitored other discrimination cases where the police officers on the > scene either partially or mostly took the side of the public business, > claiming the business could refuse whoever they want or suggesting > alternative services to avoid future discrimination. In the moment it seems > as though there is very little one can do to trump the authority of the > local police department, which seems unfair, but there must surely be > something one can do to educate what seems to be a widespread ignorance > among the law enforcement community on the issue. Are there not standard > training procedures for most law enforcement departments? Are there perhaps > legal maneuvers one could use to catch the attention of departments that do > not help protect the rights of service animal handlers? With all respect, > please do not suggest my going through NAGDU. Otherwise, thank you in > advance for any light you can shed. > > Regards, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4986 (20100330) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:45:45 -0700 > From: Mark BurningHawk > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > I made a promise to take this off list, so that's why I'm not > defending my statements. :) I'd just be repeating myself at this > point; I have tried to make my words stand on their own, to not make > it personal and to keep my rhetoric to a minimum. My apologies if I > failed, but WB's right; things like the railing against the Iphone, > the amazingly harsh status *AGAINST* guide dogs, etc., have really > turned me off to NFB, as well as the whole "you will be assimilated," > thing. This is why I don't join *ANY* organization; I just don't fit > in. :) > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:17:38 -0700 > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Joe, > Much depends on the jurisdiction that you are in. One option is to request a > police supervisor such as a sergeant or contact a shift or watch commander > to address the issue. Here in California I am familiar with a situation > where a guide dog user was not allowed in a store with his dog and the > police warned the business owner that the dog user could sue him and file a > civil rights complaint. The important thing is to know the laws in each > jurisdiction as well as the relevant sections of the ADA regarding public > businesses and accommodations. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 6:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement > > > > Dear all, > > > > On a more serious topic, what is the best course of action to take in a > > situation where police officers do not know of service animal > > accessibility > > laws, or will not enforce these laws even if they are aware of them? A > > couple of years ago I wound up suing a Chinatown curbside carrier for not > > allowing my Seeing Eye dog on one of their buses. Since that incident I > > have monitored other discrimination cases where the police officers on the > > scene either partially or mostly took the side of the public business, > > claiming the business could refuse whoever they want or suggesting > > alternative services to avoid future discrimination. In the moment it > > seems > > as though there is very little one can do to trump the authority of the > > local police department, which seems unfair, but there must surely be > > something one can do to educate what seems to be a widespread ignorance > > among the law enforcement community on the issue. Are there not standard > > training procedures for most law enforcement departments? Are there > > perhaps > > legal maneuvers one could use to catch the attention of departments that > > do > > not help protect the rights of service animal handlers? With all respect, > > please do not suggest my going through NAGDU. Otherwise, thank you in > > advance for any light you can shed. > > > > Regards, > > > > Joe Orozco > > > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature > > database 4986 (20100330) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:00:41 -0500 > From: " Rob Tabor" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement > Message-ID: <3239D11BD0AD48EF8EC29BA6A3206D85 at Rob> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi, Joe and all. > > When I acquired my dog guide from The Seeing Eye? in 1980 all of us in the > dog navigation training class were provided a copy of the dog guide use > protection clause in the White Cane Act applicable to our respective home > states. I suspect The Seeing Eye? and other dog guide training schools > provide the same service to their graduates. That being the case, the > obvious first step is to carry the document and show it to the officer who > is questioning your right to bring the service animal. If the officer is not > persuaded that s/he has seen the law of the land, the next step is to file a > formal complaint with the chief of police or to follow whatever process or > apparatus is available in your municipal government to launch a public > grievance against the actions of the officer. There is always the option of > taking one's complaint to the "court of public opinion" in the form of > letters to the newspaper editor, contacting a newspaper or TV reporter about > doing a feature on the issue, etc. If these kinder and gentler measures fail > to yield the desired results, filing a law suit against the police > department under Title 2 of ADA or the applicable state anti-discrimination > law may prove to be necessary. One thinng is for sure. Either you will > acquire a reputation in town as a troublemaker or people will learn you are > not a person to be trifled with. Take your pick. In any event, good luck in > these endeavors. > > best regards > Rob Tabor, J.D, Vice president, Douglas County Chapter, NFB > of Kansas > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement > > > > Dear all, > > > > On a more serious topic, what is the best course of action to take in a > > situation where police officers do not know of service animal > > accessibility > > laws, or will not enforce these laws even if they are aware of them? A > > couple of years ago I wound up suing a Chinatown curbside carrier for not > > allowing my Seeing Eye dog on one of their buses. Since that incident I > > have monitored other discrimination cases where the police officers on the > > scene either partially or mostly took the side of the public business, > > claiming the business could refuse whoever they want or suggesting > > alternative services to avoid future discrimination. In the moment it > > seems > > as though there is very little one can do to trump the authority of the > > local police department, which seems unfair, but there must surely be > > something one can do to educate what seems to be a widespread ignorance > > among the law enforcement community on the issue. Are there not standard > > training procedures for most law enforcement departments? Are there > > perhaps > > legal maneuvers one could use to catch the attention of departments that > > do > > not help protect the rights of service animal handlers? With all respect, > > please do not suggest my going through NAGDU. Otherwise, thank you in > > advance for any light you can shed. > > > > Regards, > > > > Joe Orozco > > > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature > > database 4986 (20100330) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rob.tabor%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:42:15 -0700 > From: "Susan Kelly" > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] Arizona Attorney magazine > Message-ID: > <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D6CE1 at EVS02.central.pima.gov> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Does anyone else on the list practice in Arizona? > > I emailed the State Bar last week to find out if there was either a > text-only on-line version of the Arizona Attorney magazine, or an audio > version, as it has become increasingly difficult to read the publication > even with my CCTV and/or screen magnification software. The format of > the on-line version does not work at all with screen narration, as it > keeps getting "off track" into the other fluff on the sides of the > articles and notices. Of course, the Bar has not bothered to even > acknowledge my email as of yet. So - would anyone on this list happen > to know the answer? I ask because the magazine is often the first, or > at least the most in-depth, notification of rule changes, convention > information, etc. for Arizona.... > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 5675 bytes > Desc: image001.jpg > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 70, Issue 24 > **************************************** From bnaccari at cox.net Wed Mar 31 20:54:23 2010 From: bnaccari at cox.net (Bruce E. Naccari) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:54:23 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Educating the police and obtaining White Cane /guide dog legal compliance Message-ID: <20100331165423.JVGSS.88989.imail@eastrmwml28> On the topic of how one can best proceed to get enforcement of the rights of guide dog users and the White Cane laws: Many municipalities and states have Human rights Commissions or Human Relations Commissions with rather broad powers to enforce state or local antidiscrimination laws and to assess and then seek to achieve a conciliation of grievances involving discrimination complaints or complaints of poor relations between or among groups in the population. If your locality or state has such an agency, anyone with a grievance involving police failure or business or public accommodation operators’ failures to enforce and/or comply with the White Cane laws and laws protecting the right to use service animals like guide dogs should in my opinion consider filing a complaint there. Because these agencies usually are charged with a duty to try to achieve an amicable conciliation of the complaint before a hearing can be held, their procedures are useful for achieving results in cases of deprivation of rights with no or low special damages in dollars and where litigation would be lengthy and a judge with the discretion to do so might not grant adequate attorney’s fees. While I served first as Legal Counsel to the New Orleans Commission and then later as a commissioner we successfully conciliated several complaints against restaurants, bars, taxi companies, etc., involving the exclusion of guide dogs and discrimination against blind customers. In my opinion getting such a commission to become your advocate with the local police will likely prove to be more fruitful than filing Internal Affairs Division/public Integrity Division complaints with eh police department. Police tend to stiffen and back each other when a complaint is filed against one of their own but will often respond amicably and cooperatively to conciliatory procedures which seem less like an attack. And if there is a local or state Commission of this sort I would contact it to ask it in a formal petition to ensure that Police Officer Standard Training classes and/or Police Academy classes in your jurisdiction are getting adequate education about the White Cane laws and the pertinent antidiscrimination laws and about the rights of cane and service animal users. I will leave it to the wisdom of the NFB’s government relations staff and lobbyists to decide if it would be worth the time and effort to draft model amendments to the pertinent laws that would if enacted explicitly require POST an similar training of law enforcement officers to include formal instruction in this area and to require that applicants for driver’s licenses when tested show familiarity with the White Cane safety laws. From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Wed Mar 31 21:01:46 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:01:46 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: ABA GPSolo Diversity and Young Lawyers Fellowship Programs - Extended to April 16, 2010 Message-ID: <2F550B7A3DCE47D2BAF94DD2E69BA925@labarre> I recommend this program to all who meet the eligibility criteria, namely, lawyers with disabilities who are in solo or small practices. It's a great way to get involved in the ABA. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: ABA General Practice, Solo and Small Firm Division To: GP-LEADERSHIP at MAIL.ABANET.ORG Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 2:41 PM Subject: ABA GPSolo Diversity and Young Lawyers Fellowship Programs - Extended to April 16, 2010 Call for Diversity Fellowship Nominations: The ABA General Practice, Solo and Small Firm Division is pleased to announce the sponsorship of four Diversity fellowships in the Division during the 2010-2011 bar year. The program is designed to promote diversity within the Division and the ABA, while providing leadership development opportunities within the Division for women, attorneys of color, and those with disabilities and persons of differing sexual orientations and gender identities. Nomination applications deadline is extended to April 16, 2010. Young Lawyers Fellowship Nominations The ABA General Practice, Solo and Small Firm Division is pleased to announce the sponsorship of two Young Lawyer fellowships in the Division during the 2010-2011 bar year. The GPSolo Division is committed to increasing the participation of young lawyers in Division activities. This program will provide young lawyers the opportunity to become actively and integrally involved in the Division's meetings and committees. Nomination applications deadline is extended to April 16, 2010. For further any information on the Division's fellowship programs please contact:the GPSolo Division at (312) 988-5648, (312) 988-5711 or genpractice at abanet.org. Visit our website at www.abanet.org/genpractice or download a DiversityFellowshipApplication1011.doc or a YoungLawyersFellowshipApplication1011.doc Mail, fax or email completed applications and nominations to: American Bar Association GPSolo and Small Firm Division (Diversity or Young Lawyers) Fellowship Program Dee C. Lee, Finance and Committees Coordinator 321 N. Clark Street Chicago, IL 60654 Fax (312) 988-5711 Email: genpractice at abanet.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To remove yourself from this listserv, please click here http://www.abanet.org/abanet/common/email/listserv/listcommands.cfm?parm=unsubscribe&listgroup=gp-leadership -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: attad214.gif Type: image/gif Size: 5270 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 31 23:38:26 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:38:26 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement In-Reply-To: <20100331164425.82BYP.88872.imail@eastrmwml28> References: <20100331164425.82BYP.88872.imail@eastrmwml28> Message-ID: <1771F95576B44B3BB7080DBFA0E558F4@spike> When I lived in Michigan years ago a question on the written driving test asked what a motorist should do when they saw a blind person with a white cane. I don't know if it is still on the tests there as I have not lived there since the mid-80's. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce E. Naccari" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 1:44 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement > On the topic of how one can best proceed to get enforcement of the rights > of guide dog users and the White Cane laws: Many municipalities and > states have Human rights Commissions or Human Relations Commissions with > rather broad powers to enforce state or local antidiscrimination laws and > to assess and then seek to achieve a conciliation of grievances involving > discrimination complaints or complaints of poor relations between or among > groups in the population. If your locality or state has such an agency, > anyone with a grievance involving police failure or business or public > accommodation operators’ failures to enforce and/or comply with the White > Cane laws and laws protecting the right to use service animals like guide > dogs should in my opinion consider filing a complaint there. Because these > agencies usually are charged with a duty to try to achieve an amicable > conciliation of the complaint before a hearing can be held, their > procedures are useful for achieving results in cases of deprivation of > rights with no or low special damages in dollars and where litigation > would be lengthy and a judge with the discretion to do so might not grant > adequate attorney’s fees. While I served first as Legal Counsel to the > New Orleans Commission and then later as a commissioner we successfully > conciliated several complaints against restaurants, bars, taxi companies, > etc., involving the exclusion of guide dogs and discrimination against > blind customers. In my opinion getting such a commission to become your > advocate with the local police will likely prove to be more fruitful than > filing Internal Affairs Division/public Integrity Division complaints with > eh police department. Police tend to stiffen and back each other when a > complaint is filed against one of their own but will often respond > amicably and cooperatively to conciliatory procedures which seem less like > an attack. And if there is a local or state Commission of this sort I > would contact it to ask it in a formal petition to ensure that Police > Officer Standard Training classes and/or Police Academy classes in your > jurisdiction are getting adequate education about the White Cane laws and > the pertinent antidiscrimination laws and about the rights of cane and > service animal users. I will leave it to the wisdom of the NFB’s > government relations staff and lobbyists to decide if it would be worth > the time and effort to draft model amendments to the pertinent laws that > would if enacted explicitly require POST an similar training of law > enforcement officers to include formal instruction in this area and to > require that applicants for driver’s licenses when tested show familiarity > with the White Cane safety laws. > ---- blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org wrote: >> Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) >> 2. Re: A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access (Steve Jacobson) >> 3. Re: Pimp My Cane (David Andrews) >> 4. Canes and Blindness (David Andrews) >> 5. Re: A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access (Aser Tolentino) >> 6. Re: Pimp My Cane (Ross Doerr) >> 7. Re: Canes and Blindness (WB) >> 8. Re: Pimp My Cane ( Rob Tabor) >> 9. Re: Pimp My Cane (WB) >> 10. Re: Pimp My Cane (David Andrews) >> 11. Re: A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access (James Weisberg) >> 12. Educating Law Enforcement (Joe Orozco) >> 13. Re: Pimp My Cane (Mark BurningHawk) >> 14. Re: Educating Law Enforcement (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) >> 15. Re: Educating Law Enforcement ( Rob Tabor) >> 16. Arizona Attorney magazine (Susan Kelly) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:18:38 -0600 >> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> Message-ID: <1396EC6B323A463B922D4F129B95066D at valtd> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Hi Cathryn: >> >> MobileSpeak, the competition for cell phone screen reader, will also work >> on >> the HTC Ozone if you choose to stay with Verizon. >> >> Aside from these, there are several mostly Nokia phones that Talks can >> run >> on. Here are a few: N85, N86, 6120 Classic, E65, E66, E61I, N95, N96, >> ETC. >> I hear that the new Talks5 soon to be released will even work on Nokia >> Touch >> Screen phones. >> >> Please note that Nokia phones use GSM technology; if you choose a Nokia >> phone, you will be stuck with either AT&T or T-Mobile for the most part. >> It >> is my understanding that the HTC Ozone supports both GSM and CDMA >> platforms; >> with this phone, you can still keep Verizon if that is your preference. >> >> In the event that you need to use the KNFB Reader, this product DOES NOT >> currently work on any phones running Windows Mobile operating systems. >> It >> works primarily on Nokia phones such as the N86, N82, and 6120 Classic to >> mention a few. >> >> To learn more about different phones that you can use with a screen >> reader, >> please consider subscribing to the Blind Phones List using the address >> below: >> >> blindphones-subscribe at mosenexplosion.com >> >> Hope the foregoing has been helpful. >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:41:12 -0500 >> From: "Steve Jacobson" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Cathryn, >> >> Like Joe, I am also using an accessible cellphone through Sprint. Maybe >> I can shed a little light on a couple of things. >> >> First, the KNFB Reader phone is as expensive as it is mostly because of >> the KNFB reader software rather than the phone. However the total price >> has come down >> to around $1,500. Of this, $995 is for the software that converts print >> into spoken text. That is about the same price as the K-1000 software >> that performs that >> function on a personal computer. Speaking very generally, the phone >> itself is roughly $300 and the software or "screen reader" that makes the >> phone functions talk >> is around another $200. The price estimated here for the phone is based >> upon buying a phone from a dealer without going through a phone company. >> Generally if >> you buy a phone through a service provider and sign a two year contract >> or renew one for two years, the phone company in effect subsidizes the >> cost of a new >> phone by $150 or $200 or so. Therefore, if you sign a new contract or >> extend an existing one, it is very possible that you can get a phone that >> can be made >> accessible for $100 or so, but you still have to buy a "screen reader" >> for the phone which will probably cost you another $200. >> >> However, as Joe mentioned, there are some phones out there which have >> some speech built in. These phones can cost you less than $100 with a >> new contract or >> an extension, and no screen reader is required. However, phones with >> built-in speech generally cannot handle e-mail or web browsing, but they >> can usually handle >> text messaging now and allow access to your contacts. I believe that >> Sprint still has the LG Rumor 2 and the LG Lotus and there could be >> others by now that fit this >> category. >> >> You cannot add a screen reader to just any phone. Like computers, the >> more advanced phones have "operating systems," and some of these do allow >> a screen >> reader to be added. The most common operating system on phones that can >> be used with Sprint and Verizon is called Windows Mobile. There is a >> screen reader >> called Mobile Speak that works with many of these phones. Such phones >> are sometimes called SmartPhones or Pocket PC's. Common brands include >> Samsung >> and Joe mentioned and also HTC but there are others. Many of the Palm >> phones cannot be used with a screen reader. >> >> Many of the phones that work on T-Mobil and AT&T use the Simbian >> operating system. There is another screen reader that is used on these >> phones called TALKS. >> However, Mobile Speak also works on some of these phones, and TALKS works >> on certain Verizon phones now. Phones made by Nokia are most common in >> this >> category, but not all Nokia phones are capablt of supporting a screen >> reader. >> >> I just went through the process of buying an HTC Snap phone which I use >> on Sprint with Mobile Speak, and I found the whole business to be >> confusing at best. >> Therefore, I hope the above helps a little, but keep in mind that >> something I have written could easily have become out of date since I >> started this note. >> Still, if you can keep in mind that some phones are simply not >> accessible, some have some built-in accessibility for basics, and some >> that use Windows Mobile or >> Simbian operating systems can be made accessible with the addition of a >> screen reader, you will be off to a good start. Then also remember that >> you can usually get >> a big discount buying a phone from a service provider with a new contract >> or contract extension. Good luck. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson , >> >> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: >> >> >Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice >> >software to >> >install on a cell? >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >On >> >Behalf Of Joe Orozco >> >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM >> >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> >> >I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from Verizon, >> >better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through Verizon, >> >I >> >think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak >> >installed. >> >Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG line >> >that >> >provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both carriers >> >are >> >the best ones here in terms of reception. >> >> >Joe Orozco >> >> >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> >sleeves, >> >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >> >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM >> >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> >Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> >> >Greetings to All: >> >> > >> >> >Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best >> >companies, etc. >> >for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't >> >have $2,000.00 >> >to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard the >> >frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with >> >disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. >> > I observed >> >yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are no >> >longer available. >> >> > >> >> >I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by seeking >> >wisdom from the group. >> >> > >> >> >Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for >> >listening- >> >> > >> >> >Cathryn >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >blindlaw mailing list >> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >info for blindlaw: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >> >co%40gmail.com >> > >> >> >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> >virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ >> >> >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >http://www.eset.com >> > >> > >> >> >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> >signature >> >database 4985 (20100330) __________ >> >> >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >http://www.eset.com >> > >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >blindlaw mailing list >> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >blindlaw: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 >> >0verizon.net >> >No virus found in this incoming message. >> >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> >Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/30/10 >> >06:32:00 >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >blindlaw mailing list >> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >blindlaw: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:27:02 -0500 >> From: David Andrews >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >> >> Mark: >> >> Two things: first, discussion of NFB philosophy is not really on >> topic for this list, nonetheless I will try and briefly answer your >> question. I think the problem comes in that you misunderstand why we >> aren't in favor of some audio pedestrian signals, some forms of >> currency identification etc. First, some of your language, that we >> "rail against" does not lend itself to reasoned discussion. Your >> examples to me imply that you think we are against any recognizable >> identification of blindness. This isn't the reason. I think as a >> group we are proud of ourselves as blind persons and what we have >> accomplished. >> >> On the other hand we feel that you should only ask for and use those >> accommodations that are necessary, and when there are other ways of >> accomplishing something, you should use those ways. >> >> You are drawing a black and white picture of the world, and NFB's >> reaction to it, and the true picture is much more nuanced. >> >> Dave >> >> At 04:51 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: >> >I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks >> >here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for >> >that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the >> >NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, >> >claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind >> >"want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I >> >hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a >> >symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so >> >that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of >> >the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB >> >might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of >> >blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't >> >understand this. >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:37:34 -0500 >> From: David Andrews >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: [blindlaw] Canes and Blindness >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >> >> Mark: >> >> I suppose it is a goal to "blend in and not stand out" as you say, >> but not just in a physical sense. I want to be a part of society, an >> equal, getting the bad and the good do along with my sighted >> counterparts. With the tools available to me today, cane, dog etc., >> I will always stand out some. So instead of trying to hide that I >> need to be proud of my blindness and promote a positive attitude >> towards those tools and blind people, so the stigma goes away. There >> is a stigma because we are not equals -- our unemployment rate etc. >> prove that. When we change that it won't matter that we carry a >> cane, use a dog etc. We won't change attitudes by not using canes >> and the like though. >> >> Dave >> >> At 08:00 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: >> >I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, >> >recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to >> >identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being >> >unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was >> >put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they >> >may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as >> >blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not >> >being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I >> >am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems >> >to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. >> >For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane >> >becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the identifying >> >mark by which blind people are known and warn their surroundings that >> >they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is one reason why I want >> >to use a cane that's other than white with a red tip. It is very true >> >that, even with my guide dog, when I wear sunglasses, I am often >> >mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog user. It's like that old >> >left-handed compliment, "No one would know you're blind, you do that >> >so well." That infuriates me when it's said to me. It seems that >> >some here are trying to avoid just this situation--being mistaken for >> >a sighted person--when I should think that was the ultimate goal of >> >any blind person--to blend in and not stand out. >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:42:23 -0700 >> From: Aser Tolentino >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes >> >> > I thought I'd chime in with a note about VoiceOver on the iPhone. >> > Apple includes a mobile version of its screen reader as part of the >> > operating system. It works with all Apple apps and many third party >> > apps to varying degrees. I can type on the onscreen keyboard about >> > as fast as I could on a numeric keypad. The phone starts at $199 >> > with contract and runs about $90 a month for service. >> >> On Mar 30, 2010, at 11:41, "Steve Jacobson" >> wrote: >> >> > Cathryn, >> > >> > Like Joe, I am also using an accessible cellphone through Sprint. >> > Maybe I can shed a little light on a couple of things. >> > >> > First, the KNFB Reader phone is as expensive as it is mostly because >> > of the KNFB reader software rather than the phone. However the >> > total price has come down >> > to around $1,500. Of this, $995 is for the software that converts >> > print into spoken text. That is about the same price as the K-1000 >> > software that performs that >> > function on a personal computer. Speaking very generally, the phone >> > itself is roughly $300 and the software or "screen reader" that >> > makes the phone functions talk >> > is around another $200. The price estimated here for the phone is >> > based upon buying a phone from a dealer without going through a >> > phone company. Generally if >> > you buy a phone through a service provider and sign a two year >> > contract or renew one for two years, the phone company in effect >> > subsidizes the cost of a new >> > phone by $150 or $200 or so. Therefore, if you sign a new contract >> > or extend an existing one, it is very possible that you can get a >> > phone that can be made >> > accessible for $100 or so, but you still have to buy a "screen >> > reader" for the phone which will probably cost you another $200. >> > >> > However, as Joe mentioned, there are some phones out there which >> > have some speech built in. These phones can cost you less than $100 >> > with a new contract or >> > an extension, and no screen reader is required. However, phones >> > with built-in speech generally cannot handle e-mail or web browsing, >> > but they can usually handle >> > text messaging now and allow access to your contacts. I believe >> > that Sprint still has the LG Rumor 2 and the LG Lotus and there >> > could be others by now that fit this >> > category. >> > >> > You cannot add a screen reader to just any phone. Like computers, >> > the more advanced phones have "operating systems," and some of these >> > do allow a screen >> > reader to be added. The most common operating system on phones that >> > can be used with Sprint and Verizon is called Windows Mobile. There >> > is a screen reader >> > called Mobile Speak that works with many of these phones. Such >> > phones are sometimes called SmartPhones or Pocket PC's. Common >> > brands include Samsung >> > and Joe mentioned and also HTC but there are others. Many of the >> > Palm phones cannot be used with a screen reader. >> > >> > Many of the phones that work on T-Mobil and AT&T use the Simbian >> > operating system. There is another screen reader that is used on >> > these phones called TALKS. >> > However, Mobile Speak also works on some of these phones, and TALKS >> > works on certain Verizon phones now. Phones made by Nokia are most >> > common in this >> > category, but not all Nokia phones are capablt of supporting a >> > screen reader. >> > >> > I just went through the process of buying an HTC Snap phone which I >> > use on Sprint with Mobile Speak, and I found the whole business to >> > be confusing at best. >> > Therefore, I hope the above helps a little, but keep in mind that >> > something I have written could easily have become out of date since >> > I started this note. >> > Still, if you can keep in mind that some phones are simply not >> > accessible, some have some built-in accessibility for basics, and >> > some that use Windows Mobile or >> > Simbian operating systems can be made accessible with the addition >> > of a screen reader, you will be off to a good start. Then also >> > remember that you can usually get >> > a big discount buying a phone from a service provider with a new >> > contract or contract extension. Good luck. >> > >> > Best regards, >> > >> > Steve Jacobson , >> > >> > On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: >> > >> >> Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice >> >> software to >> >> install on a cell? >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- >> >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> >> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM >> >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> > >> >> I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from >> >> Verizon, >> >> better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through >> >> Verizon, I >> >> think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak >> >> installed. >> >> Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG >> >> line that >> >> provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both >> >> carriers are >> >> the best ones here in terms of reception. >> > >> >> Joe Orozco >> > >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> >> sleeves, >> >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM >> >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> >> Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> > >> >> Greetings to All: >> > >> >> >> > >> >> Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best >> >> companies, etc. >> >> for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't >> >> have $2,000.00 >> >> to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard >> >> the >> >> frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with >> >> disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. >> >> I observed >> >> yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are >> >> no >> >> longer available. >> > >> >> >> > >> >> I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by >> >> seeking >> >> wisdom from the group. >> > >> >> >> > >> >> Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for >> >> listening- >> > >> >> >> > >> >> Cathryn >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info for blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >> >> co%40gmail.com >> >> >> > >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> >> virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ >> > >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> >> signature >> >> database 4985 (20100330) __________ >> > >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 >> >> 0verizon.net >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> >> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: >> >> 03/30/10 >> >> 06:32:00 >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> for blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com >> > >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:52:00 -0400 >> From: "Ross Doerr" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Hey, before they cut off this thred of postings, where do I get one of >> those >> gold-plated canes again? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Danielsen" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 6:43 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >> > Hi Mark, >> > >> > With due respect, I think you are misunderstanding the NFB's philosophy >> > and >> > some of our positions. The NFB didn't oppose audible signals, or the >> > lawsuit >> > seeking identifiable money, because we don't believe that blind people >> > need >> > accommodations. What we believe is that blind people ought to have the >> > tools >> > and receive the accommodations that are necessary, not just every >> > conceivable accommodation. Now, you may well disagree with us on what >> > accommodations are necessary, and that is all well and good. Even our >> > own >> > members don't always agree on everything, but we take a vote on the >> > issues >> > we disagree on and once a position has been voted on we stick with it >> > until >> > there is a vote to change it. The white cane is a tool that many blind >> > people have found useful, primarily because it helps us get around. A >> > guide >> > dog is useful to other blind people for the same reason. In the NFB we >> > generally believe that a blind person should be able to have access to >> > these >> > tools and make choices about the ones they will use. Symbolically, the >> > white >> > cane is important because it means we believe it is respectable to be >> > blind, >> > but that's not the only or even the primary reason to carry one. If one >> > has >> > some vision, a white cane may be useful and will certainly avoid >> > misunderstandings arising from not being able to see very well. That >> > said, >> > of course being identified as blind has its down sides. A lot of us >> > have >> > decided that the benefits of carrying a cane outweigh those down sides. >> > >> > In a speech on the nature of independence, our long-time president >> > Kenneth >> > Jernigan pointed out that the white cane and Braille are simply tools >> > that >> > can make a person independent and that many blind people find useful. >> > But >> > he >> > warned us against defining whether a person was independent based on >> > whether >> > or not they chose to use any given tool. Sometimes all of us forget >> > this >> > warning, but I still think it is generally what we believe. We do push >> > for >> > things like Braille literacy and cane training because those who are >> > blind >> > or have low vision should know what all of their options are. It's fine >> > to >> > make a choice, but we believe it should be an informed choice, and not >> > one >> > that is merely made because one doesn't want to seem blind because of >> > society's attitude about blindness. Beyond that, the choice is up to >> > the >> > individual blind person. >> > >> > Chris >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> > On >> > Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk >> > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:51 PM >> > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> > >> > I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks >> > here >> > are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that >> > matter. >> > I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB rails >> > against >> > things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming that the >> > blind >> > don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," whatever. Same >> > with >> > identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a bunch of the same people >> > saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of blindness! I want to >> > proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can alter their >> > behaviors >> > appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm blind!" I should >> > think >> > the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a black cane and give no >> > indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. >> > I >> > just don't understand this. >> > >> > Mark BurningHawk >> > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >> > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >> > Namaste! >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >> > com >> > >> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> > signature >> > database 4983 (20100329) __________ >> > >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> > http://www.eset.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> > signature >> > database 4983 (20100329) __________ >> > >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> > http://www.eset.com >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2776 - Release Date: 03/28/10 >> 18:32:00 >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:36:30 -0500 >> From: "WB" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Canes and Blindness >> Message-ID: <034501cad059$730318d0$59094a70$@com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> >From my reading of Mark's statement....and he can defend his own....but >> >I >> didn't see where he said not to use a cane. >> >> One problem in this e-mail trail and others is that many times, myself >> included, read what we want to out of a person's statement rather than >> what >> they really said. I guess, as in court, yowe cannot come to an amicable >> resolution if the facts are not taken into consideration. >> >> I'm sure there will be a statement regarding this one that may take a >> word >> or two out of context. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of David Andrews >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 2:38 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: [blindlaw] Canes and Blindness >> >> Mark: >> >> I suppose it is a goal to "blend in and not stand out" as you say, >> but not just in a physical sense. I want to be a part of society, an >> equal, getting the bad and the good do along with my sighted >> counterparts. With the tools available to me today, cane, dog etc., >> I will always stand out some. So instead of trying to hide that I >> need to be proud of my blindness and promote a positive attitude >> towards those tools and blind people, so the stigma goes away. There >> is a stigma because we are not equals -- our unemployment rate etc. >> prove that. When we change that it won't matter that we carry a >> cane, use a dog etc. We won't change attitudes by not using canes >> and the like though. >> >> Dave >> >> At 08:00 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: >> >I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, >> >recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to >> >identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being >> >unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was >> >put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they >> >may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as >> >blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not >> >being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I >> >am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems >> >to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. >> >For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane >> >becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the identifying >> >mark by which blind people are known and warn their surroundings that >> >they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is one reason why I want >> >to use a cane that's other than white with a red tip. It is very true >> >that, even with my guide dog, when I wear sunglasses, I am often >> >mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog user. It's like that old >> >left-handed compliment, "No one would know you're blind, you do that >> >so well." That infuriates me when it's said to me. It seems that >> >some here are trying to avoid just this situation--being mistaken for >> >a sighted person--when I should think that was the ultimate goal of >> >any blind person--to blend in and not stand out. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:37:55 -0500 >> From: " Rob Tabor" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=response >> >> Good evening. >> >> Although this thread of conversation began as something quite amuzing and >> at >> least arguably relevant to questions pertaining to alternately colored or >> multi-colored travel canes and their compliance with white cane laws it >> has >> evolved into an equally interesting but kokophanous diatribe over how we >> perceive one another and how the world perceives as people with blindness >> or >> otherwise low vision. In other words, the conversation is drifting far >> from >> being relevant to a blind lawyers' discussion list for which it is >> intended. >> I recognize, however, that Dave Anddrews has final judgment on this as >> list >> owner/moderator. Perhaps someone should start a philosophy of blindness >> discussion list where views like these can be aired and responded to. >> Best regards, >> Rob Tabor Vice president Douglas county (KS) Chapter NFB >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark BurningHawk" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 5:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >> > Oh cut that out. I was born blind, too, and I don't have insecurities >> > about injuring someone; I've never been responsible for anyone else's >> > injury that I didn't mean to, so stop making it personal when I'm >> > trying >> > to keep it general. Blindness is *NOT* a liability any more than >> > clumsiness or large feet. Having bright red hair can e a distraction >> > which can cause injury to someone who sees it. I protest loudly the >> > idea >> > that blind people, especially high-end, intelligent, lawyer-type blind >> > people accept the fact that they may injure someone more readily than >> > a >> > sighted person with two left feet might. When I see professionals who >> > are blind accepting this shame instead of actively working to correct >> > it, >> > I am sad because this attitude will trickle down to disrupt my life >> > when >> > I do something unconventional. So knock off that psychology crap, >> > please; I use a guide dog, not a cane anyway. >> > >> > Mark BurningHawk >> > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >> > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >> > Namaste! >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rob.tabor%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:41:23 -0500 >> From: "WB" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> Message-ID: <034601cad05a$20734620$6159d260$@com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> I'm a member of NFB and have heard the things that Mark was speaking of. >> Dave, you may be taking your view which you stated. The fact is that >> there >> are many members who do what Mark spoke of. And the perception of many >> in >> the blind community is as such. >> >> I've heard an NFB member rail against the I-Phone because they wanted to >> dissuade a person from purchasing it so they could waste money on the >> KNFB >> reader which is way to expensive. I've heard many a philosophy on the >> use >> of straight canes and why we shouldn't use a folding cane. >> >> The list goes on and on. I think a point was being made that those who >> wish >> to disagree with mark are blatantly overlooking. >> >> Again, he can defend his own statements but I've been reading the e-mails >> relating to this topic. Once again, I and others have gotten on their >> soapbox on a topic that started lightly. Well, here's to reading some >> more. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of David Andrews >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 2:27 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> Mark: >> >> Two things: first, discussion of NFB philosophy is not really on >> topic for this list, nonetheless I will try and briefly answer your >> question. I think the problem comes in that you misunderstand why we >> aren't in favor of some audio pedestrian signals, some forms of >> currency identification etc. First, some of your language, that we >> "rail against" does not lend itself to reasoned discussion. Your >> examples to me imply that you think we are against any recognizable >> identification of blindness. This isn't the reason. I think as a >> group we are proud of ourselves as blind persons and what we have >> accomplished. >> >> On the other hand we feel that you should only ask for and use those >> accommodations that are necessary, and when there are other ways of >> accomplishing something, you should use those ways. >> >> You are drawing a black and white picture of the world, and NFB's >> reaction to it, and the true picture is much more nuanced. >> >> Dave >> >> At 04:51 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: >> >I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks >> >here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for >> >that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the >> >NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, >> >claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind >> >"want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I >> >hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a >> >symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so >> >that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of >> >the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB >> >might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of >> >blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't >> >understand this. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 10 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:41:33 -0500 >> From: David Andrews >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >> >> There is -- try nfb-talk. To subscribe either go to: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org >> >> or send e-mail to nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org and put the word >> subscribe in the subject line by itself. >> >> Dave >> >> At 05:37 PM 3/30/2010, you wrote: >> >Good evening. >> > >> >Although this thread of conversation began as something quite >> >amuzing and at least arguably relevant to questions pertaining to >> >alternately colored or multi-colored travel canes and their >> >compliance with white cane laws it has evolved into an equally >> >interesting but kokophanous diatribe over how we perceive one >> >another and how the world perceives as people with blindness or >> >otherwise low vision. In other words, the conversation is drifting >> >far from being relevant to a blind lawyers' discussion list for >> >which it is intended. I recognize, however, that Dave Anddrews has >> >final judgment on this as list owner/moderator. Perhaps someone >> >should start a philosophy of blindness discussion list where views >> >like these can be aired and responded to. >> >Best regards, >> >Rob Tabor Vice president Douglas county (KS) Chapter NFB >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 11 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:42:43 -0700 >> From: "James Weisberg" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> Message-ID: <68E61DE2FA7F410EA387623187EB1870 at Blind> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Hello: >> >> I have had the nokia, forgot the model, running talks and then moved to >> the >> Motorola Q9 running mobilespeaks. At first I found Talks superior but it >> was obviously due to my familiarity with it and the Nokia I had been >> using. >> I soon discovered the "MotoQ" running the mobilespeaks software was much >> slicker. I had access to basically all blackberry type options although >> I >> did not pay for the internet and cannot say how that worked. Currently I >> am >> using an iPhone with "voiceover" which is inadequate if you are totally >> blind but usable with limited vision and worth the hassle. >> >> Jimi >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Steve Jacobson >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:41 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> >> Cathryn, >> >> Like Joe, I am also using an accessible cellphone through Sprint. Maybe >> I >> can shed a little light on a couple of things. >> >> First, the KNFB Reader phone is as expensive as it is mostly because of >> the >> KNFB reader software rather than the phone. However the total price has >> come down >> to around $1,500. Of this, $995 is for the software that converts print >> into spoken text. That is about the same price as the K-1000 software >> that >> performs that >> function on a personal computer. Speaking very generally, the phone >> itself >> is roughly $300 and the software or "screen reader" that makes the phone >> functions talk >> is around another $200. The price estimated here for the phone is based >> upon buying a phone from a dealer without going through a phone company. >> Generally if >> you buy a phone through a service provider and sign a two year contract >> or >> renew one for two years, the phone company in effect subsidizes the cost >> of >> a new >> phone by $150 or $200 or so. Therefore, if you sign a new contract or >> extend an existing one, it is very possible that you can get a phone that >> can be made >> accessible for $100 or so, but you still have to buy a "screen reader" >> for >> the phone which will probably cost you another $200. >> >> However, as Joe mentioned, there are some phones out there which have >> some >> speech built in. These phones can cost you less than $100 with a new >> contract or >> an extension, and no screen reader is required. However, phones with >> built-in speech generally cannot handle e-mail or web browsing, but they >> can >> usually handle >> text messaging now and allow access to your contacts. I believe that >> Sprint >> still has the LG Rumor 2 and the LG Lotus and there could be others by >> now >> that fit this >> category. >> >> You cannot add a screen reader to just any phone. Like computers, the >> more >> advanced phones have "operating systems," and some of these do allow a >> screen >> reader to be added. The most common operating system on phones that can >> be >> used with Sprint and Verizon is called Windows Mobile. There is a screen >> reader >> called Mobile Speak that works with many of these phones. Such phones >> are >> sometimes called SmartPhones or Pocket PC's. Common brands include >> Samsung >> and Joe mentioned and also HTC but there are others. Many of the Palm >> phones cannot be used with a screen reader. >> >> Many of the phones that work on T-Mobil and AT&T use the Simbian >> operating >> system. There is another screen reader that is used on these phones >> called >> TALKS. >> However, Mobile Speak also works on some of these phones, and TALKS works >> on >> certain Verizon phones now. Phones made by Nokia are most common in this >> category, but not all Nokia phones are capablt of supporting a screen >> reader. >> >> I just went through the process of buying an HTC Snap phone which I use >> on >> Sprint with Mobile Speak, and I found the whole business to be confusing >> at >> best. >> Therefore, I hope the above helps a little, but keep in mind that >> something >> I have written could easily have become out of date since I started this >> note. >> Still, if you can keep in mind that some phones are simply not >> accessible, >> some have some built-in accessibility for basics, and some that use >> Windows >> Mobile or >> Simbian operating systems can be made accessible with the addition of a >> screen reader, you will be off to a good start. Then also remember that >> you >> can usually get >> a big discount buying a phone from a service provider with a new contract >> or >> contract extension. Good luck. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson , >> >> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: >> >> >Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice >> >software >> to >> >install on a cell? >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >On >> >Behalf Of Joe Orozco >> >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM >> >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> >> >I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from Verizon, >> >better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through Verizon, >> >I >> >think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak >> installed. >> >Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG line >> >that >> >provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both carriers >> >are >> >the best ones here in terms of reception. >> >> >Joe Orozco >> >> >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> >sleeves, >> >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >> >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM >> >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> >Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> >> >Greetings to All: >> >> > >> >> >Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best >> >companies, etc. >> >for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't >> >have $2,000.00 >> >to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard the >> >frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with >> >disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. >> > I observed >> >yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are no >> >longer available. >> >> > >> >> >I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by seeking >> >wisdom from the group. >> >> > >> >> >Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for >> >listening- >> >> > >> >> >Cathryn >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >blindlaw mailing list >> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >info for blindlaw: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >> >co%40gmail.com >> > >> >> >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> >virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ >> >> >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >http://www.eset.com >> > >> > >> >> >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> >database 4985 (20100330) __________ >> >> >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >http://www.eset.com >> > >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >blindlaw mailing list >> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >blindlaw: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally% >> 4 >> >0verizon.net >> >No virus found in this incoming message. >> >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> >Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/30/10 >> >06:32:00 >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >blindlaw mailing list >> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40 >> visi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4986 (20100330) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4986 (20100330) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 12 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:20:17 -0400 >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Dear all, >> >> On a more serious topic, what is the best course of action to take in a >> situation where police officers do not know of service animal >> accessibility >> laws, or will not enforce these laws even if they are aware of them? A >> couple of years ago I wound up suing a Chinatown curbside carrier for not >> allowing my Seeing Eye dog on one of their buses. Since that incident I >> have monitored other discrimination cases where the police officers on >> the >> scene either partially or mostly took the side of the public business, >> claiming the business could refuse whoever they want or suggesting >> alternative services to avoid future discrimination. In the moment it >> seems >> as though there is very little one can do to trump the authority of the >> local police department, which seems unfair, but there must surely be >> something one can do to educate what seems to be a widespread ignorance >> among the law enforcement community on the issue. Are there not standard >> training procedures for most law enforcement departments? Are there >> perhaps >> legal maneuvers one could use to catch the attention of departments that >> do >> not help protect the rights of service animal handlers? With all >> respect, >> please do not suggest my going through NAGDU. Otherwise, thank you in >> advance for any light you can shed. >> >> Regards, >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4986 (20100330) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 13 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:45:45 -0700 >> From: Mark BurningHawk >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes >> >> I made a promise to take this off list, so that's why I'm not >> defending my statements. :) I'd just be repeating myself at this >> point; I have tried to make my words stand on their own, to not make >> it personal and to keep my rhetoric to a minimum. My apologies if I >> failed, but WB's right; things like the railing against the Iphone, >> the amazingly harsh status *AGAINST* guide dogs, etc., have really >> turned me off to NFB, as well as the whole "you will be assimilated," >> thing. This is why I don't join *ANY* organization; I just don't fit >> in. :) >> >> Mark BurningHawk >> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >> Namaste! >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 14 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:17:38 -0700 >> From: >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Hi Joe, >> Much depends on the jurisdiction that you are in. One option is to >> request a >> police supervisor such as a sergeant or contact a shift or watch >> commander >> to address the issue. Here in California I am familiar with a situation >> where a guide dog user was not allowed in a store with his dog and the >> police warned the business owner that the dog user could sue him and file >> a >> civil rights complaint. The important thing is to know the laws in each >> jurisdiction as well as the relevant sections of the ADA regarding public >> businesses and accommodations. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 6:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement >> >> >> > Dear all, >> > >> > On a more serious topic, what is the best course of action to take in a >> > situation where police officers do not know of service animal >> > accessibility >> > laws, or will not enforce these laws even if they are aware of them? A >> > couple of years ago I wound up suing a Chinatown curbside carrier for >> > not >> > allowing my Seeing Eye dog on one of their buses. Since that incident >> > I >> > have monitored other discrimination cases where the police officers on >> > the >> > scene either partially or mostly took the side of the public business, >> > claiming the business could refuse whoever they want or suggesting >> > alternative services to avoid future discrimination. In the moment it >> > seems >> > as though there is very little one can do to trump the authority of the >> > local police department, which seems unfair, but there must surely be >> > something one can do to educate what seems to be a widespread ignorance >> > among the law enforcement community on the issue. Are there not >> > standard >> > training procedures for most law enforcement departments? Are there >> > perhaps >> > legal maneuvers one could use to catch the attention of departments >> > that >> > do >> > not help protect the rights of service animal handlers? With all >> > respect, >> > please do not suggest my going through NAGDU. Otherwise, thank you in >> > advance for any light you can shed. >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Joe Orozco >> > >> > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> > sleeves, >> > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> > >> > >> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> > signature >> > database 4986 (20100330) __________ >> > >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> > http://www.eset.com >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 15 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:00:41 -0500 >> From: " Rob Tabor" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement >> Message-ID: <3239D11BD0AD48EF8EC29BA6A3206D85 at Rob> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Hi, Joe and all. >> >> When I acquired my dog guide from The Seeing Eye? in 1980 all of us in >> the >> dog navigation training class were provided a copy of the dog guide use >> protection clause in the White Cane Act applicable to our respective home >> states. I suspect The Seeing Eye? and other dog guide training schools >> provide the same service to their graduates. That being the case, the >> obvious first step is to carry the document and show it to the officer >> who >> is questioning your right to bring the service animal. If the officer is >> not >> persuaded that s/he has seen the law of the land, the next step is to >> file a >> formal complaint with the chief of police or to follow whatever process >> or >> apparatus is available in your municipal government to launch a public >> grievance against the actions of the officer. There is always the option >> of >> taking one's complaint to the "court of public opinion" in the form of >> letters to the newspaper editor, contacting a newspaper or TV reporter >> about >> doing a feature on the issue, etc. If these kinder and gentler measures >> fail >> to yield the desired results, filing a law suit against the police >> department under Title 2 of ADA or the applicable state >> anti-discrimination >> law may prove to be necessary. One thinng is for sure. Either you will >> acquire a reputation in town as a troublemaker or people will learn you >> are >> not a person to be trifled with. Take your pick. In any event, good luck >> in >> these endeavors. >> >> best regards >> Rob Tabor, J.D, Vice president, Douglas County Chapter, NFB >> of Kansas >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement >> >> >> > Dear all, >> > >> > On a more serious topic, what is the best course of action to take in a >> > situation where police officers do not know of service animal >> > accessibility >> > laws, or will not enforce these laws even if they are aware of them? A >> > couple of years ago I wound up suing a Chinatown curbside carrier for >> > not >> > allowing my Seeing Eye dog on one of their buses. Since that incident >> > I >> > have monitored other discrimination cases where the police officers on >> > the >> > scene either partially or mostly took the side of the public business, >> > claiming the business could refuse whoever they want or suggesting >> > alternative services to avoid future discrimination. In the moment it >> > seems >> > as though there is very little one can do to trump the authority of the >> > local police department, which seems unfair, but there must surely be >> > something one can do to educate what seems to be a widespread ignorance >> > among the law enforcement community on the issue. Are there not >> > standard >> > training procedures for most law enforcement departments? Are there >> > perhaps >> > legal maneuvers one could use to catch the attention of departments >> > that >> > do >> > not help protect the rights of service animal handlers? With all >> > respect, >> > please do not suggest my going through NAGDU. Otherwise, thank you in >> > advance for any light you can shed. >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Joe Orozco >> > >> > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> > sleeves, >> > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> > >> > >> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> > signature >> > database 4986 (20100330) __________ >> > >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> > http://www.eset.com >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rob.tabor%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 16 >> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:42:15 -0700 >> From: "Susan Kelly" >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [blindlaw] Arizona Attorney magazine >> Message-ID: >> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D6CE1 at EVS02.central.pima.gov> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> >> >> Does anyone else on the list practice in Arizona? >> >> I emailed the State Bar last week to find out if there was either a >> text-only on-line version of the Arizona Attorney magazine, or an audio >> version, as it has become increasingly difficult to read the publication >> even with my CCTV and/or screen magnification software. The format of >> the on-line version does not work at all with screen narration, as it >> keeps getting "off track" into the other fluff on the sides of the >> articles and notices. Of course, the Bar has not bothered to even >> acknowledge my email as of yet. So - would anyone on this list happen >> to know the answer? I ask because the magazine is often the first, or >> at least the most in-depth, notification of rule changes, convention >> information, etc. for Arizona.... >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: not available >> Type: image/jpeg >> Size: 5675 bytes >> Desc: image001.jpg >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> >> End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 70, Issue 24 >> **************************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Mar 1 16:23:40 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 10:23:40 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Nominate Now for ABA Paul G. Hearne Award for Disability Rights Message-ID: ________________________________ From: Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law [mailto:cmpdl at abanet.org] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 4:00 AM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: Nominate Now for ABA Paul G. Hearne Award for Disability Rights [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/CMPDL.gif][http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/HearneLogo_NoCMPDLLogo.jpg] Nominate Now for ABA Paul G. Hearne Award for Disability Rights! The American Bar Association Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law is pleased to present the Paul G. Hearne Award for Disability Rights. Each year, an award is presented to an individual who or an organization that has performed exemplary service in furthering the rights, dignity, and access to justice for people with disabilities. The award will be presented at the ABA's 2010 Annual Meeting in San Francisco, CA. There is a $1,000 honorarium for the winner. However, time is running out. Nominations must be postmarked or e-mailed by April 1, 2010. This award, created in 1999, honors the work of Paul G. Hearne, a lawyer whose connective tissue disorder limited his growth to less than four feet and restricted his movement. Nonetheless, he moved mountains. Mr. Hearne's mark on the disability rights movement, especially from a legal perspective, was tremendous. Learn more about the award. For questions, contact: William J. Phelan, IV, Esq. 202-662-1576 phelanw at staff.abanet.org Past Recipient [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/center.jpg]The 2009 Award was given to Claudia B. Center, a Senior Staff Attorney at the Legal Aid Society - Employment Law Center in San Francisco, California. Her efforts have contributed greatly to the advancement of legal rights for persons with disabilities. She has been directly involved in several landmark cases, including U.S. Airways, Inc. v. Barnett, in which she argued before the U.S. Supreme Court that there should be no presumption under the Americans with Disabilities Act that reasonable accommodation requests that may interfere with the seniority rights of other workers constitute an undue burden. 740 15th Street, N.W., 9th Floor| Washington, DC 20005-1022 | 202.662.1570 | cmpdl at abanet.org Your e-mail address will only be used within the ABA and its entities. We do not sell or rent e-mail addresses to anyone outside the ABA. Update your profile | Unsubscribe | Privacy Policy American Bar Association | 321 N Clark | Chicago, IL 60654 | 1-800-285-2221 From CDanielsen at nfb.org Wed Mar 3 07:02:19 2010 From: CDanielsen at nfb.org (Danielsen, Chris) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 01:02:19 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Court Rules that National Conference of Bar Examiners Must Provide Individualized Testing Accommodations to Blind Law School Graduate Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org Court Rules that National Conference of Bar Examiners Must Provide Individualized Testing Accommodations to Blind Law School Graduate Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Denies NCBE Motion to Stay Preliminary Injunction San Francisco, California (February 24, 2010): The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals yesterday refused to stay a preliminary injunction requiring the National Conference of Bar Examiners (NCBE) to provide a blind law school graduate with the technology-based testing accommodations she needs to take two exams required to become a member of the State Bar of California. A federal judge had previously granted the preliminary injunction requiring the accommodations, but the NCBE appealed the ruling. The Ninth Circuit's ruling allows the plaintiff, Stephanie Enyart, to take the February 2010 Multistate Bar Examination (MBE) and March 2010 Multistate Professional Responsibility Examination (MPRE) on a laptop computer equipped with the assistive technology software Ms. Enyart relies upon for screen reading (JAWS) and screen magnification (ZoomText). Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "The court's action puts an end to Stephanie Enyart's year-long ordeal to get the accommodations she needs to take this crucial step in her chosen career. As we have said before, those who control admission to the practice of law must themselves obey the law." The suit was filed on November 3, 2009, due to the NCBE's refusal, on multiple occasions during the past year, to allow Ms. Enyart to use the same technology on the MBE and MPRE that she has used on university and law school exams and in various jobs and internships. The suit charged that the NCBE violated the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and California's Unruh Civil Rights Act by denying accommodations on the MBE and the MPRE. NCBE had argued that it fulfilled its legal obligations to Ms. Enyart by offering alternative accommodations, such as a human reader, notwithstanding evidence that these alternatives did not, in fact, fully accommodate Ms. Enyart's disability. In rejecting NCBE's argument, the court's ruling paves the way for other individuals prevented from pursuing their professional dreams by high stakes testing providers who take a rigid approach to disability accommodations. The plaintiff is represented with the support of the National Federation of the Blind by LaBarre Law Offices, P.C., in Denver, Colorado, and by Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP, in Baltimore, Maryland. The plaintiff is further represented by Disability Rights Advocates, a nonprofit law center that specializes in civil rights cases on behalf of persons with disabilities, based in Berkeley, California. ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Thu Mar 4 15:25:04 2010 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 07:25:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] westlaw and the c.f.r.? Message-ID: <217059.34684.qm@web112403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi everybody.   I'm currently in the process of obtaining a security clearance for a job with the feds. One of my major duties will be using Westlaw to research regs and all that good stuff. When I was in law school, I utilized Westlaw because I preferred it over Lexis (easier to navigate, etc., as I've read from other members' posts on this list.)   Anyway, I remember my law librarian telling me that Westlaw only goes back to the mid 1970's or something like that for the C.F.R. For those of you who research the C.F.R. as a fed or in your general practice, where do you go if you need a reg that predates Westlaw's collection? Is there an web site that has all of the regs?   Thanks.   Mike From mikefry79 at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 16:05:12 2010 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 08:05:12 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Court Rules that National Conference of Bar Examiners Must Provide Individualized Testing Accommodations to Blind Law School Graduate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8c58e54a1003040805g184c6909jba9d3f16feada54@mail.gmail.com> woowhoo!! Great News On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Danielsen, Chris wrote: > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > > CONTACT: > > Chris Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > National Federation of the Blind > > (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 > > (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > > cdanielsen at nfb.org > > > Court Rules that National Conference of Bar Examiners Must Provide > Individualized Testing Accommodations to Blind Law School Graduate > > > > > Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Denies NCBE Motion to Stay Preliminary > Injunction > > > > San Francisco, California (February 24, 2010): The Ninth Circuit Court of > Appeals yesterday refused to stay a preliminary injunction requiring the > National Conference of Bar Examiners (NCBE) to provide a blind law school > graduate with the technology-based testing accommodations she needs to take > two exams required to become a member of the State Bar of California. A > federal judge had previously granted the preliminary injunction requiring > the accommodations, but the NCBE appealed the ruling. The Ninth Circuit's > ruling allows the plaintiff, Stephanie Enyart, to take the February 2010 > Multistate Bar Examination (MBE) and March 2010 Multistate Professional > Responsibility Examination (MPRE) on a laptop computer equipped with the > assistive technology software Ms. Enyart relies upon for screen reading > (JAWS) and screen magnification (ZoomText). > > > > Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: > "The court's action puts an end to Stephanie Enyart's year-long ordeal to > get the accommodations she needs to take this crucial step in her chosen > career. As we have said before, those who control admission to the practice > of law must themselves obey the law." > > > > The suit was filed on November 3, 2009, due to the NCBE's refusal, on > multiple occasions during the past year, to allow Ms. Enyart to use the same > technology on the MBE and MPRE that she has used on university and law > school exams and in various jobs and internships. The suit charged that the > NCBE violated the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and California's > Unruh Civil Rights Act by denying accommodations on the MBE and the MPRE. > > > > NCBE had argued that it fulfilled its legal obligations to Ms. Enyart by > offering alternative accommodations, such as a human reader, notwithstanding > evidence that these alternatives did not, in fact, fully accommodate Ms. > Enyart's disability. In rejecting NCBE's argument, the court's ruling paves > the way for other individuals prevented from pursuing their professional > dreams by high stakes testing providers who take a rigid approach to > disability accommodations. > > > > The plaintiff is represented with the support of the National Federation of > the Blind by LaBarre Law Offices, P.C., in Denver, Colorado, and by Brown, > Goldstein & Levy, LLP, in Baltimore, Maryland. The plaintiff is further > represented by Disability Rights Advocates, a nonprofit law center that > specializes in civil rights cases on behalf of persons with disabilities, > based in Berkeley, California. > > > > > > ### > > > > > > About the National Federation of the Blind > > With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the > largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the > United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, > education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and > self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and > the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the > National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and > training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From b75205 at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 16:21:53 2010 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 10:21:53 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Court Rules that National Conference of Bar Examiners Must Provide Individualized Testing Accommodations to Blind Law School Graduate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well this has always been the dodge of companies, schools and institutions to prevent access by claiming that content is theoretically accessible, when in fact it is practically not accessible. This divide between theory and reality needs to be broken down and attacked because it is the crucial factor in whether there is access or not. Colleges claim that their applications forms are accessible to the blind and yet they are not even close. They claim accessibility by testing their web pages with programs such as Bobby which no longer exists. they don't actually test their accessibility with anything used by the blind. I was over at a local university and they claimed online application for employment was accessible to the blind because they just hired a blind person who did not make any complaint about the form. The form is not even close to being accessible, it was clear that the person got someone to help them fill it out. This institution that has 1200 employees considers itself accessible because they have one blind employee. Practical useful accessibility should be the goal of any action, where it can be demonstrated that the content is accessible using the products the blind use on a normal basis. If it is accessible to one program it should be accessible to another. I can do that with my process. Also since this is a legal list, I think that the blind should demand that there be a "Meeting of the Minds" in all contracts, forms and documents. The way we have it now is that Party A makes a document. Party B must use many different processes and programs to try to determine what Party A meant. That document is usually different than what Party A meant but visually it is the same document as Party A's document. Where is the "Meeting of the Minds?" Why is it Party B's responsibility to present Party A's position? Could this be used to challenge every contract, form and document presented to the blind? Also given the state of things today it is perfectly possible for Party B to receive content that is not the intention of Party A or is purposely not the same content. It gets even worse because some screen readers read different types of content in the same document so the output is different. I am saying the blind do not get all of the information and when they receive it, it is not necessarily the content that is in the document. It can be misleading, whether intentional or not. I would think that insurance companies would have a problem with businesses sending out content that is not checked to see if the content is accurate to the blind. This content is usually never checked, very few people actually test their content with screen readers, because if they did they would have corrected their errors by now, I mean this is obvious! So I was wondering if all of the current content should be challenged in court. For instance what about social security lawyers, why couldn't they challenge all of the decisions of the Social Security Department for not making their content accessible to the blind. Challenge all the Social Security Applications that failed. James Pepper From rogerbaccus at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 20:17:14 2010 From: rogerbaccus at gmail.com (Roger Baccus) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 15:17:14 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] AnyLoopHoles4OhioLease? Message-ID: <015a01cabbd7$aeacbf80$6601a8c0@rogerbaccus> I signed a lease for one year on 10/04/09. Subsequently, I bought a house and desire to get out of lease. What are my options. The landlord wants to keep my deposit and hold me responsible for half of the remaining time on the lease. What can I do? Can you refer attorney in Columbus, Ohio? Thanks in advance. Skype = Baccus2007 WebSite = http://www.rogerbaccus.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 22:05:55 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 17:05:55 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Court Rules that National Conference of BarExaminers Must Provide Individualized Testing Accommodationsto Blind Law School Graduate References: <8c58e54a1003040805g184c6909jba9d3f16feada54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Where Can I go, to read the rulling? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Fry" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Court Rules that National Conference of BarExaminers Must Provide Individualized Testing Accommodationsto Blind Law School Graduate > woowhoo!! Great News > > On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Danielsen, Chris > wrote: > >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> >> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> Court Rules that National Conference of Bar Examiners Must Provide >> Individualized Testing Accommodations to Blind Law School Graduate >> >> >> >> >> Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Denies NCBE Motion to Stay Preliminary >> Injunction >> >> >> >> San Francisco, California (February 24, 2010): The Ninth Circuit Court of >> Appeals yesterday refused to stay a preliminary injunction requiring the >> National Conference of Bar Examiners (NCBE) to provide a blind law school >> graduate with the technology-based testing accommodations she needs to >> take >> two exams required to become a member of the State Bar of California. A >> federal judge had previously granted the preliminary injunction requiring >> the accommodations, but the NCBE appealed the ruling. The Ninth >> Circuit's >> ruling allows the plaintiff, Stephanie Enyart, to take the February 2010 >> Multistate Bar Examination (MBE) and March 2010 Multistate Professional >> Responsibility Examination (MPRE) on a laptop computer equipped with the >> assistive technology software Ms. Enyart relies upon for screen reading >> (JAWS) and screen magnification (ZoomText). >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: >> "The court's action puts an end to Stephanie Enyart's year-long ordeal to >> get the accommodations she needs to take this crucial step in her chosen >> career. As we have said before, those who control admission to the >> practice >> of law must themselves obey the law." >> >> >> >> The suit was filed on November 3, 2009, due to the NCBE's refusal, on >> multiple occasions during the past year, to allow Ms. Enyart to use the >> same >> technology on the MBE and MPRE that she has used on university and law >> school exams and in various jobs and internships. The suit charged that >> the >> NCBE violated the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and California's >> Unruh Civil Rights Act by denying accommodations on the MBE and the MPRE. >> >> >> >> NCBE had argued that it fulfilled its legal obligations to Ms. Enyart by >> offering alternative accommodations, such as a human reader, >> notwithstanding >> evidence that these alternatives did not, in fact, fully accommodate Ms. >> Enyart's disability. In rejecting NCBE's argument, the court's ruling >> paves >> the way for other individuals prevented from pursuing their professional >> dreams by high stakes testing providers who take a rigid approach to >> disability accommodations. >> >> >> >> The plaintiff is represented with the support of the National Federation >> of >> the Blind by LaBarre Law Offices, P.C., in Denver, Colorado, and by >> Brown, >> Goldstein & Levy, LLP, in Baltimore, Maryland. The plaintiff is further >> represented by Disability Rights Advocates, a nonprofit law center that >> specializes in civil rights cases on behalf of persons with disabilities, >> based in Berkeley, California. >> >> >> >> >> >> ### >> >> >> >> >> >> About the National Federation of the Blind >> >> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is >> the >> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in >> the >> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, >> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence >> and >> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today >> and >> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the >> National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research >> and >> training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Mar 5 00:30:12 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 18:30:12 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] westlaw and the c.f.r.? In-Reply-To: <217059.34684.qm@web112403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: To my knowledge, there is no website or electronic source that has all code of federal regulations from the beginning of time. I have had to research regulations from the 1960s and found no electronic source, only the hardcopy in my agency's library. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Gilmore Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 7:25 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] westlaw and the c.f.r.? Hi everybody.   I'm currently in the process of obtaining a security clearance for a job with the feds. One of my major duties will be using Westlaw to research regs and all that good stuff. When I was in law school, I utilized Westlaw because I preferred it over Lexis (easier to navigate, etc., as I've read from other members' posts on this list.)   Anyway, I remember my law librarian telling me that Westlaw only goes back to the mid 1970's or something like that for the C.F.R. For those of you who research the C.F.R. as a fed or in your general practice, where do you go if you need a reg that predates Westlaw's collection? Is there an web site that has all of the regs?   Thanks.   Mike _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From DFrye at nfb.org Fri Mar 5 12:54:40 2010 From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 07:54:40 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] AnyLoopHoles4OhioLease? In-Reply-To: <015a01cabbd7$aeacbf80$6601a8c0@rogerbaccus> Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02217266@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Roger: This question doesn't sound especially blindness related, so I'd recommend that you go to the Bar Association in your city or state to find a landlord tenant attorney. Rental laws vary from state-to-state, but generally the terms of the agreement you signed will govern. Often some consequences exist for breaking a lease. Leases give renters the security of knowing they have a place to rent for a finite period of time; they give owners the security of knowing that they have a reliable renter for the same period. The details of the agreement are designed to encourage all parties to honor those terms. And, on the occasion when the lease is to be violated, it's usual for the offender to incur the consequences of terminating the lease. The remedy you describe, forfeiting your deposit and being responsible for half of the lease, doesn't seem unusual or particularly harsh, but I don't know the specifics of Ohio law. Breaking a lease is not inherently wrong or illegal; it just comes with certain legal consequences associated with such a business decision. Good luck. Dan Frye -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roger Baccus Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 3:17 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] AnyLoopHoles4OhioLease? I signed a lease for one year on 10/04/09. Subsequently, I bought a house and desire to get out of lease. What are my options. The landlord wants to keep my deposit and hold me responsible for half of the remaining time on the lease. What can I do? Can you refer attorney in Columbus, Ohio? Thanks in advance. Skype = Baccus2007 WebSite = http://www.rogerbaccus.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.or g From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Fri Mar 5 14:38:34 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 09:38:34 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] AnyLoopHoles4OhioLease? In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02217266@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02217266@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <41A3F03856454593B3BDE293F3B78962@StevePC> Tell him to work on subleasing the apartment with the owners permission. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frye, Dan" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] AnyLoopHoles4OhioLease? > Roger: > > This question doesn't sound especially blindness related, so I'd > recommend that you go to the Bar Association in your city or state to > find a landlord tenant attorney. Rental laws vary from state-to-state, > but generally the terms of the agreement you signed will govern. Often > some consequences exist for breaking a lease. Leases give renters the > security of knowing they have a place to rent for a finite period of > time; they give owners the security of knowing that they have a reliable > renter for the same period. The details of the agreement are designed to > encourage all parties to honor those terms. And, on the occasion when > the lease is to be violated, it's usual for the offender to incur the > consequences of terminating the lease. The remedy you describe, > forfeiting your deposit and being responsible for half of the lease, > doesn't seem unusual or particularly harsh, but I don't know the > specifics of Ohio law. Breaking a lease is not inherently wrong or > illegal; it just comes with certain legal consequences associated with > such a business decision. Good luck. > > Dan Frye > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Roger Baccus > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 3:17 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] AnyLoopHoles4OhioLease? > > I signed a lease for one year on 10/04/09. Subsequently, I bought a > house and desire to get out of lease. What are my options. The landlord > wants to keep my deposit and hold me responsible for half of the > remaining time on the lease. What can I do? > > Can you refer attorney in Columbus, Ohio? > > Thanks in advance. > > > Skype = Baccus2007 WebSite = http://www.rogerbaccus.com > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.or > g > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2723 - Release Date: 03/05/10 07:34:00 From lists at zufelt.ca Sat Mar 6 12:56:48 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 07:56:48 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Canadian Federal Court to hear Charter violation regarding web accessibility Message-ID: Good morning all, For anyone who is unaware and interested, the Canadian Federal Court will be hearing a case this may regarding the accessibility of Federal Government web-sites. To the best of my knowledge the action is being brought as a section 15 Charter violation against the Government. s. 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights, which is constitutional law, states: 15 (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability. There isn't a great deal of information floating around about this case. A couple of links below can provide a little more information Web-site of firm handling the case http://www.bakerlaw.ca/?q=taxonomy/term/60 Facebook Group related to the case http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=359483366688&v=info Thanks, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Mar 8 19:44:39 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 13:44:39 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Testing, testing, blind lawyers, please do not reply Message-ID: This is only a test. Please do not respond. Noel From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 13:42:29 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:42:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help Message-ID: <2B73FF3186784319B78180084DD353C1@hometwxakonvzn> I'm forwarding this messege I got off of the NFBF list. What or how can this woman address this issue? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:24 PM Subject: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help > Hi, guys. I just got word from DBS that my stay at Colorado Center > for the Blind was denied. According to Beth Crain, my counselor, "DBS > is not able to send someone that far away, when there are other > options closer." I call it bullshit and against my right to informed > choice. If any of you guys wants to help me with this, that would be > nice. > Sincerely, > Beth Taurasi > > _______________________________________________ > Nfbf-l mailing list > Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > Nfbf-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From LBlake at nfb.org Tue Mar 9 13:46:44 2010 From: LBlake at nfb.org (Blake, Lou Ann) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:46:44 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02263074@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org From david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us Tue Mar 9 14:27:32 2010 From: david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us (Hyde, David W. (ESC)) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:27:32 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help In-Reply-To: <2B73FF3186784319B78180084DD353C1@hometwxakonvzn> References: <2B73FF3186784319B78180084DD353C1@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <8FE3DA4A52652B4D8EC80883B3DC1233673A5209E7@tiger> Tell her to talk to Julie Deeden in Colorado. This is not uncommon. You may allow want to look at your stat's appeal process, and or the Client Assistance Project. If their objection is distance, suggest Louisiana. Although Julie and the Colorado staff run a great program, Pam and the bunch in Louisiana do to, as does Al Spooner in MN. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:42 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help I'm forwarding this messege I got off of the NFBF list. What or how can this woman address this issue? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:24 PM Subject: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help > Hi, guys. I just got word from DBS that my stay at Colorado Center > for the Blind was denied. According to Beth Crain, my counselor, "DBS > is not able to send someone that far away, when there are other > options closer." I call it bullshit and against my right to informed > choice. If any of you guys wants to help me with this, that would be > nice. > Sincerely, > Beth Taurasi > > _______________________________________________ > Nfbf-l mailing list > Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > Nfbf-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksan > defur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/david.hyde%40wcbvi.k12.wi.us From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 14:46:09 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:46:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help References: <2B73FF3186784319B78180084DD353C1@hometwxakonvzn> <8FE3DA4A52652B4D8EC80883B3DC1233673A5209E7@tiger> Message-ID: <10AB77F22D06493D8D33B064681B2776@hometwxakonvzn> She doesn't want to go to Louisiana. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hyde, David W. (ESC)" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help > Tell her to talk to Julie Deeden in Colorado. This is not uncommon. You > may allow want to look at your stat's appeal process, and or the Client > Assistance Project. If their objection is distance, suggest Louisiana. > Although Julie and the Colorado staff run a great program, Pam and the > bunch in Louisiana do to, as does Al Spooner in MN. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:42 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help > > I'm forwarding this messege I got off of the NFBF list. What or how can > this woman address this issue? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:24 PM > Subject: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help > > >> Hi, guys. I just got word from DBS that my stay at Colorado Center >> for the Blind was denied. According to Beth Crain, my counselor, "DBS >> is not able to send someone that far away, when there are other >> options closer." I call it bullshit and against my right to informed >> choice. If any of you guys wants to help me with this, that would be >> nice. >> Sincerely, >> Beth Taurasi >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nfbf-l mailing list >> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> Nfbf-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksan >> defur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/david.hyde%40wcbvi.k12.wi.us > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From blindliteracy at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 16:55:12 2010 From: blindliteracy at gmail.com (Blind Literacy) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:55:12 +0900 Subject: [blindlaw] Canada has no Federal disability Act, so please help us hold our Government to Account Message-ID: Hello friends and colleagues, We are calling upon the Government of Canada to ensure that all information and services offered through Federal Government websites be made to comply with WCAG 2.0 guidelines by December 31, 2010. Please copy and paste the below into your internet browser. Take action today by signing our online petition at: You can read more about our campaign and join us on Facebook at: You can also send your support by email to: Please share this with your friends, colleagues, and supporters of e-accessibility. Accessible websites mean stronger communities and healthier economies! _______________ Quick Facts: + Over 800,000 Canadians have seeing limitations that require accommodations. + If a website is not accessible, then to a blind person, it does not exist. + Government of Canada websites fail simple accessibility compliance tests. + Offenders include many major Federal departments, including Canada's largest employer, the Public Service Commission Help us Support Donna Jodhan in her Charter challenge against the Attorney General of Canada, scheduled for May 19-21, 2010! Best regards, Derek Wilson _______________ From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 17:22:53 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 12:22:53 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help In-Reply-To: <8FE3DA4A52652B4D8EC80883B3DC1233673A5209E7@tiger> References: <2B73FF3186784319B78180084DD353C1@hometwxakonvzn> <8FE3DA4A52652B4D8EC80883B3DC1233673A5209E7@tiger> Message-ID: <4383d01d1003090922x6b59ba2egd46559b2ef1d02ee@mail.gmail.com> I've already spoken to CAP and Walter Blackman, and Ii've also got Julie to speak with. So I've got all the strings to pull right. Beth On 3/9/10, Hyde, David W. (ESC) wrote: > Tell her to talk to Julie Deeden in Colorado. This is not uncommon. You may > allow want to look at your stat's appeal process, and or the Client > Assistance Project. If their objection is distance, suggest Louisiana. > Although Julie and the Colorado staff run a great program, Pam and the bunch > in Louisiana do to, as does Al Spooner in MN. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:42 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help > > I'm forwarding this messege I got off of the NFBF list. What or how can this > woman address this issue? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:24 PM > Subject: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help > > >> Hi, guys. I just got word from DBS that my stay at Colorado Center >> for the Blind was denied. According to Beth Crain, my counselor, "DBS >> is not able to send someone that far away, when there are other >> options closer." I call it bullshit and against my right to informed >> choice. If any of you guys wants to help me with this, that would be >> nice. >> Sincerely, >> Beth Taurasi >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nfbf-l mailing list >> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> Nfbf-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksan >> defur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/david.hyde%40wcbvi.k12.wi.us > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Tue Mar 9 19:53:12 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 12:53:12 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Message-ID: <6D136D62838A44A3830E18E0FEEB9255@labarre> NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: nabl session announcement spring 2010.doc Type: application/msword Size: 26624 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 9 23:05:46 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 15:05:46 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help In-Reply-To: <2B73FF3186784319B78180084DD353C1@hometwxakonvzn> References: <2B73FF3186784319B78180084DD353C1@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <8C3601C7EFDC42E5B288C7431537010B@spike> The procedure would be for Beth to appeal this decision to a hearing. Each state has procedures for rehab clients to appeal decisions through a fair hearing process. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 5:42 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help > I'm forwarding this messege I got off of the NFBF list. What or how can > this woman address this issue? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:24 PM > Subject: [Nfbf-l] CCB stay denied, please help > > >> Hi, guys. I just got word from DBS that my stay at Colorado Center >> for the Blind was denied. According to Beth Crain, my counselor, "DBS >> is not able to send someone that far away, when there are other >> options closer." I call it bullshit and against my right to informed >> choice. If any of you guys wants to help me with this, that would be >> nice. >> Sincerely, >> Beth Taurasi >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nfbf-l mailing list >> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> Nfbf-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Mar 9 23:27:44 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 17:27:44 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:28 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice ________________________________ From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:32 PM To: nawl at nawl.org; ncai at ncai.org; nedy at wyjlaw.com; newmedia at ja.org; Neysas at dnfsb.gov; Maurer, Patricia; nijc at aol.com; nlove at opd.state.md.us; nmcconnell at jackscamp.com; noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; nwpatton at law.stanford.edu; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE PROGRAM -- ALBANY, NY ASSISTANT U.S. TRUSTEE Applications must be postmarked no later than midnight of the closing date and received within 5 calendar days. Date posted: 03-08-2010 * RESIDENT LEGAL ADVISOR IN IRAQ OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING (OPDAT) U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION WASHINGTON, D.C. ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 10-CRM-OPDAT-012 Open until filled. Date posted: 03-05-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF OKLAHOMA 10-WOK-15-A Resumes must be received no later than March 19, 2010. Date posted: 03-05-2010 * COUNSEL, FRAUD SECTION (GS-0905-15) CRIMINAL DIVISION U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WASHINGTON, DC 10-CRM-FRD-011 Applications should be postmarked no later than March 17, 2010. Date posted: 03-04-2010 * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FRESNO, CALIFORNIA 10-EDCA-10A Applications should be postmarked no later than Friday, March 19, 2010. Date posted: 03-04-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA 10-SDCA-02 Application materials must be postmarked by the deadline date of March 30, 2010. Date posted: 03-02-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA 10-SDCA-01 Application materials must be postmarked by the deadline date of March 30, 2010. Date posted: 03-02-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON SEATTLE, WASHINGTON VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT: 10-WDWA-AUSA-06 (CRIMINAL OR CIVIL) MARCH 1, 2010 - MARCH 12, 2010 Applications will be accepted through March 11, 2010. Date posted: 03-01-2010 * ATTORNEY-ADVISOR U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF LEGAL COUNSEL WASHINGTON, D.C. Application Deadline is March 19, 2010. Date posted: 02-26-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-14 to GS-15 (ILA-CAMEROON) Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. Date posted: 02-26-2010 * ATTORNEY-ADVISOR FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS CONSOLIDATED LEGAL CENTER OKLAHOMA CITY, OKLAHOMA GS-905-13 This position is open until filled, but no later than March 4, 2010. Date posted: 02-26-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN Applications must be received in our office by 5:00 p.m. on March 12, 2010. Date posted: 02-26-2010 * TRIAL ATTORNEYS, GS-12 THROUGH GS-15 CIVIL DIVISION OFFICE OF IMMIGRATION LITIGATION DISTRICT COURT SECTION WASHINGTON, DC Positions open until filled on a rolling basis. Applications should be submitted as early as possible but, in any event, not later than March 15, 2010. Date posted: 02-26-2010 * EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS / GS-12 to GS-15 CIVIL DIVISION, COMMERCIAL LITIGATION BRANCH, NATIONAL COURTS SECTION WASHINGTON, DC Positions open until filled on a rolling basis. Date posted: 02-26-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON Vacancy Announcement # 2010-1 Applications must be postmarked by March 5, 2010. Date posted: 02-26-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF INFORMATION POLICY EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS / GS-12 ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER OIP-10-001 These multiple positions will be open for five days until March 5, 2010 or until filled. Applications must be received no later than March 5, 2010. Date posted: 02-25-2010 * CHIEF, ES-905NARCOTIC AND DANGEROUS DRUG SECTION CRIMINAL DIVISION U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICEWASHINGTON, DC ANNOUNCEMENT #10-CRM-SES-02 All applications (including Mailed applications) must be received by 11:59 EST on Wednesday, March 17, 2010. Date posted: 02-19-2010 * ATTORNEY-ADVISOR FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS FEDERAL CORRECTIONAL COMPLEX TERRE HAUTE, INDIANA This position is open until filled, but no later than March 4, 2010. Date posted: 02-19-2010 * TRIAL ATTORNEY (GS-0905-13/14/15) PUBLIC INTEGRITY SECTION WASHINGTON, DC 10-CRM-PIN-010 Applications must be postmarked by March 30, 2010. Date posted: 02-18-2010 The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 9 23:33:19 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 15:33:19 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] concerns about Jet Blue Air lines site Message-ID: <52AE03242B014499A52B851F0B0522D4@spike> I vaguely remember a post inquiring about people having difficulty accessing the Jet Blue Air lines site. I received an inquiry about this site on another list and did not save the original post. Does anyone else have this information so I can forward it. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 10 07:28:26 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 23:28:26 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message In-Reply-To: <6D136D62838A44A3830E18E0FEEB9255@labarre> References: <6D136D62838A44A3830E18E0FEEB9255@labarre> Message-ID: <230729B7FE634C9AA8794272D3476BC2@spike> Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > From garymelc at msn.com Wed Mar 10 09:21:57 2010 From: garymelc at msn.com (gary melconian) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:21:57 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message In-Reply-To: <230729B7FE634C9AA8794272D3476BC2@spike> References: <6D136D62838A44A3830E18E0FEEB9255@labarre> <230729B7FE634C9AA8794272D3476BC2@spike> Message-ID: I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From aec732 at msn.com Wed Mar 10 10:59:27 2010 From: aec732 at msn.com (Annemarie Cooke) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 04:59:27 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Apply for RFB&D Scholastic Achievement Awards Soon! Message-ID: Just a few weeks left to apply! Recording for the Blind and Dyslexic® (RFB&D®) is now accepting applications for the 2010 Scholastic Achievement Awards! College seniors or graduate students who are blind or visually impaired are eligible for the award. Each year, three top winners receive $6,000 and an all-expense paid trip to Washington, DC! The deadline of April 1st is fast-approaching! Click the below link to learn more! http://www.rfbd.org/About-RFB-D/National-Achievement-Awards/108/ From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Mar 10 14:56:04 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:56:04 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message In-Reply-To: <230729B7FE634C9AA8794272D3476BC2@spike> References: <6D136D62838A44A3830E18E0FEEB9255@labarre> <230729B7FE634C9AA8794272D3476BC2@spike> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D6C12@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Will this be available on audio soon after? I won't be able to attend in person, but would really like the info - the CLE self-study credit would be great if available, too, but the info more than anything. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Wednesday, 10 March, 2010 12:28 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From LBlake at nfb.org Wed Mar 10 15:24:54 2010 From: LBlake at nfb.org (Blake, Lou Ann) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:24:54 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02263951@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> The plenary sessions and keynote addresses will be recorded during the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. The workshops will not be recorded. Links to the MP3 files will be placed on the law symposium Website http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp shortly after the symposium. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of gary melconian Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:22 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org From bjsexton at comcast.net Wed Mar 10 16:35:02 2010 From: bjsexton at comcast.net (Bruce Sexton Jr.) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 08:35:02 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message References: <6D136D62838A44A3830E18E0FEEB9255@labarre> <230729B7FE634C9AA8794272D3476BC2@spike> Message-ID: I too would like to have a recorded version. Flying from California is not cheap! -Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bjsexton%40comcast.net From fwlopez at comcast.net Wed Mar 10 17:01:27 2010 From: fwlopez at comcast.net (fwlopez at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 17:01:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02263951@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <381662538.13385371268240487164.JavaMail.root@sz0065a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Let me add my voice to those who wold like to see the "workshop" sessions webcast, podcast, recorded or others preserved and made available for member use. Time, distance and cost make it difficult for many of us to attend. This is particularly so for many of us on the West Coast. For those of us who practice in the disability law filed, workshops are the often the place where we obtain new understandings on legal theories, tactical approaches, remedies and settlement approaches. Over the past year or two I have participated in various "seminars" sponsored by the Lighthousue for the Blind in San Francisco that were made available as a live podcast, by phone and by digital recodinng. Teh technology is certainnly available and we should take full advantage of it. while there may be insufficient time to offer remote or offsite particpation for the upcoming Disability Law Symposium perhaps it can be goal for next year. Fred W. Lopez Lafayette, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lou Ann Blake" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 7:24:54 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message The plenary sessions and keynote addresses will be recorded during the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. The workshops will not be recorded. Links to the MP3 files will be placed on the law symposium Website http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp shortly after the symposium. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of gary melconian Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:22 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 10 17:31:56 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:31:56 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02263951@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <002301cac077$964dc200$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Lou Anne and everyone, Given the significance of this event every effort should be made to record all activities i.e. the plenary sessions and the break-out workshops. There are people in the organization who if asked to do so could help with this effort. JMO. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blake, Lou Ann" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message The plenary sessions and keynote addresses will be recorded during the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. The workshops will not be recorded. Links to the MP3 files will be placed on the law symposium Website http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp shortly after the symposium. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of gary melconian Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:22 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 10 18:29:40 2010 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:29:40 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message References: <6D136D62838A44A3830E18E0FEEB9255@labarre><230729B7FE634C9AA8794272D3476BC2@spike> Message-ID: <004701cac07f$a5aa2010$6601a8c0@server> I would also like to add my name to the growing list of those of us on the west coast who would appreciate being able to access the program. Best, Dennis Clark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Sexton Jr." To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message I too would like to have a recorded version. Flying from California is not cheap! -Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bjsexton%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 10 18:30:15 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 12:30:15 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message References: <381662538.13385371268240487164.JavaMail.root@sz0065a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <006301cac07f$bb81b560$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good afternoon again everyone, It wouldn't be too late to arrange to bring in experienced audio-visual gurus to assist with recording all of these workshops in addition to the plenary sessions. I'm sure there are folks in the Greater Baltimore Area that could assist with this project. Otherwise we have within our ranks several highly-experienced individuals that own professional recording equipment that could be brought to Baltimore to help make these recordings. I have all ready been asked to record several activities at the national convention this summer. We'll be flying in $1000.00 of professional recording equipment to Dallas by private plane to record these activities. The decision to Use a private plane was made after my having some of my equipment mishandled and damaged by Southwest Airlines last year. Again JMO. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Let me add my voice to those who wold like to see the "workshop" sessions webcast, podcast, recorded or others preserved and made available for member use. Time, distance and cost make it difficult for many of us to attend. This is particularly so for many of us on the West Coast. For those of us who practice in the disability law filed, workshops are the often the place where we obtain new understandings on legal theories, tactical approaches, remedies and settlement approaches. Over the past year or two I have participated in various "seminars" sponsored by the Lighthousue for the Blind in San Francisco that were made available as a live podcast, by phone and by digital recodinng. Teh technology is certainnly available and we should take full advantage of it. while there may be insufficient time to offer remote or offsite particpation for the upcoming Disability Law Symposium perhaps it can be goal for next year. Fred W. Lopez Lafayette, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lou Ann Blake" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 7:24:54 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message The plenary sessions and keynote addresses will be recorded during the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. The workshops will not be recorded. Links to the MP3 files will be placed on the law symposium Website http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp shortly after the symposium. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of gary melconian Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:22 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Mar 10 18:38:48 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:38:48 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message In-Reply-To: <381662538.13385371268240487164.JavaMail.root@sz0065a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02263951@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <381662538.13385371268240487164.JavaMail.root@sz0065a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D6C1D@EVS02.central.pima.gov> A webinar link would be most appreciated, although I know it might be impossible to arrange this close in time...I have found those to be an excellent way to attend seminar events, given both in-court schedules and as mentioned, the distance for those of us practicing in the western states. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of fwlopez at comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, 10 March, 2010 10:01 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Let me add my voice to those who wold like to see the "workshop" sessions webcast, podcast, recorded or others preserved and made available for member use. Time, distance and cost make it difficult for many of us to attend. This is particularly so for many of us on the West Coast. For those of us who practice in the disability law filed, workshops are the often the place where we obtain new understandings on legal theories, tactical approaches, remedies and settlement approaches. Over the past year or two I have participated in various "seminars" sponsored by the Lighthousue for the Blind in San Francisco that were made available as a live podcast, by phone and by digital recodinng. Teh technology is certainnly available and we should take full advantage of it. while there may be insufficient time to offer remote or offsite particpation for the upcoming Disability Law Symposium perhaps it can be goal for next year. Fred W. Lopez Lafayette, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lou Ann Blake" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 7:24:54 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message The plenary sessions and keynote addresses will be recorded during the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. The workshops will not be recorded. Links to the MP3 files will be placed on the law symposium Website http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp shortly after the symposium. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of gary melconian Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:22 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 10 18:50:11 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:50:11 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message In-Reply-To: <381662538.13385371268240487164.JavaMail.root@sz0065a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <381662538.13385371268240487164.JavaMail.root@sz0065a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <5BC68A9C648E4FC4B2243255E59C0CFA@spike> I would have to concur with this and have raised this issue previously for many events of this type. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message > Let me add my voice to those who wold like to see the "workshop" sessions > webcast, podcast, recorded or others preserved and made available for > member use. Time, distance and cost make it difficult for many of us to > attend. This is particularly so for many of us on the West Coast. For > those of us who practice in the disability law filed, workshops are the > often the place where we obtain new understandings on legal theories, > tactical approaches, remedies and settlement approaches. Over the past > year or two I have participated in various "seminars" sponsored by the > Lighthousue for the Blind in San Francisco that were made available as a > live podcast, by phone and by digital recodinng. Teh technology is > certainnly available and we should take full advantage of it. while there > may be insufficient time to offer remote or offsite particpation for the > upcoming Disability Law Symposium perhaps it can be goal for next year. > > > Fred W. Lopez > Lafayette, CA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lou Ann Blake" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 7:24:54 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted > in body of message > > The plenary sessions and keynote addresses will be recorded during the > 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. The workshops will not be > recorded. Links to the MP3 files will be placed on the law symposium > Website http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp shortly after the > symposium. > > Lou Ann Blake, J.D. > Law Symposium Coordinator > Jacobus tenBroek Library > Jernigan Institute > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > 200 East Wells Street > at Jernigan Place > Baltimore, MD 21230 > Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 > Fax: (410) 659-5129 > E-mail: lblake at nfb.org > Web site: www.nfb.org > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of gary melconian > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:22 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted > in body of message > > I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived > so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the > information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly > appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later > listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that > I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . > Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted > in body of message > > Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to > attend? > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott C. LaBarre" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in > body of message > > > NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS > > 2010 SPRING MEETING > > > > Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to > learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers > specifically? > > > > Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an > interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek > Disability > Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered > how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including > readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? > > > > If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes > place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a > discount > > on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at > the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells > St. > at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. > > > > This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: > > > > 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; > > 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; > > 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other > documents, and > > supervision of attorneys and other staff; > > 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and > > 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. > > > > Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the > tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission > is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will > be available. > > > > Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with > fellow > blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. > > > > For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, > NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by > April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. > > > > **** > > > Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 > > > > 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > > > > Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World > > > > A Cross-Disability Symposium > > > > April 15-16, 2010 > > at the > > National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute > > Baltimore, Maryland > > > > Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and > scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality > and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in > > > > * ADA/Rehabilitation Act > > * class actions & litigation issues > > * employment, > > * education, > > * medical treatment, and > > * access to technology > > > > > > KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: > > > > Tom Perez > > United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights > > > > Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board > > American Association of People with Disabilities > > > > With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium > will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking > with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad > range of disabilities. > > > > 2010 plenary session speakers will be: > > > > * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University > * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical > School > * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals > * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger > * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of > People with Disabilities > * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, > Maryland Disability Law Center > * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University > College of Law > > > > 2010 workshop facilitators will be: > > > > * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, > American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults > * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law > * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society > Employment Law Center > * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf > * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical > Programs, American University Washington College of Law > * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute > * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity > Commission > * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for > Mental Health Law > * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. > * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network > * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public > Representation > > > > Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, > Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with > Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. > > > > Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. > > > > Registration fee: $175 > > Student registration fee: $25 > > > > A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be > available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. > > > > To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship > opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit > http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp > . You may also download from > this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is > also available on the symposium Web site. > > > > For additional information, contact: > > > > Lou Ann Blake, JD > > Law Symposium Coordinator > > Jacobus tenBroek Library > > Jernigan Institute > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > 200 East Wells Street > > at Jernigan Place > > Baltimore, Maryland 21230 > > Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 > > E-mail: lblake at nfb.org > > > > > > This message has been brought to you by: > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged > > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any > attachments > > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4930 (20100309) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4930 (20100309) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > From LBlake at nfb.org Wed Mar 10 20:06:35 2010 From: LBlake at nfb.org (Blake, Lou Ann) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:06:35 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message In-Reply-To: <002301cac077$964dc200$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02297F22@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> The reason for not recording workshop sessions is not lack of equipment or labor. The workshops are intended to provide a forum for candid discussion and collaboration. Consequently, we will not be recording the workshops. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:32 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message Hello Lou Anne and everyone, Given the significance of this event every effort should be made to record all activities i.e. the plenary sessions and the break-out workshops. There are people in the organization who if asked to do so could help with this effort. JMO. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blake, Lou Ann" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message The plenary sessions and keynote addresses will be recorded during the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. The workshops will not be recorded. Links to the MP3 files will be placed on the law symposium Website http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp shortly after the symposium. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of gary melconian Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:22 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Mar 10 20:34:28 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:34:28 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02297F22@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <002301cac077$964dc200$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02297F22@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D6C20@EVS02.central.pima.gov> The webinars I have attended through ILRC (in CA, I'm in AZ) are interactive and live and the same time - we still manage some pretty lively conversation and debates. Just a thought... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Blake, Lou Ann Sent: Wednesday, 10 March, 2010 1:07 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message The reason for not recording workshop sessions is not lack of equipment or labor. The workshops are intended to provide a forum for candid discussion and collaboration. Consequently, we will not be recording the workshops. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:32 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message Hello Lou Anne and everyone, Given the significance of this event every effort should be made to record all activities i.e. the plenary sessions and the break-out workshops. There are people in the organization who if asked to do so could help with this effort. JMO. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blake, Lou Ann" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message The plenary sessions and keynote addresses will be recorded during the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. The workshops will not be recorded. Links to the MP3 files will be placed on the law symposium Website http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp shortly after the symposium. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of gary melconian Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:22 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Wed Mar 10 21:41:07 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:41:07 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message References: <002301cac077$964dc200$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B02297F22@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D6C20@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <42BC1C6481B24042AABA39E9D56E2F43@labarre> Greetings, we have contemplated putting the Syposium as a live stream but have not yet done so for a number of logistical reasons. As you know, main sessions of the syposium will appear online afterwards just as they have the last couple of years. On a personal note, I think there is great value in having personal participation at these events which has to be ballenced against the great value of having such material easily available online. As for the NABL seminar itself, I am investigating how difficult it will be to obtain a quality recording of the seminar, and if we can get that done, we will offer it online. The NABL seminar is taking place in a different meeting room from the overall syposium. So, it is a matter of logisitics and equipment availability where we will be meeting. I should have an answer within the next week or so. Thanks, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kelly" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message The webinars I have attended through ILRC (in CA, I'm in AZ) are interactive and live and the same time - we still manage some pretty lively conversation and debates. Just a thought... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Blake, Lou Ann Sent: Wednesday, 10 March, 2010 1:07 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message The reason for not recording workshop sessions is not lack of equipment or labor. The workshops are intended to provide a forum for candid discussion and collaboration. Consequently, we will not be recording the workshops. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:32 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message Hello Lou Anne and everyone, Given the significance of this event every effort should be made to record all activities i.e. the plenary sessions and the break-out workshops. There are people in the organization who if asked to do so could help with this effort. JMO. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blake, Lou Ann" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message The plenary sessions and keynote addresses will be recorded during the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. The workshops will not be recorded. Links to the MP3 files will be placed on the law symposium Website http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp shortly after the symposium. Lou Ann Blake, J.D. Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of gary melconian Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:22 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message I would also like to know if these seminars will be recorded and archived so that for those who cant make the meeting dates can at least hear the information being presented at both of these seminars. I would truly appreciate it if the seminars could be recorded and archived for later listening since I wont be able to attend the seminars due to the fact that I will be at school during those dates and times. Thank you . Gary melconian, MBA and Law school candidate -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement, attached and pasted in body of message Will the seminar be recorded or preserved for those who are unable to attend? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 NABL Spring Announcement,attached and pasted in body of message NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2010 SPRING MEETING Do you have all your continuing legal education credits? Do you want to learn about disability law and issues impacting blind lawyers specifically? Join the National Association of Blind Lawyers (NABL) members for an interactive Seminar in connection with the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on Friday April 16th at 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. Ever wondered how to deal with interviewing, hiring, and firing employees including readers? Want to talk about nuts and bolts like handling exhibits? If you sign up for both the seminar and the tenBroek Symposium which takes place on April 15th and the morning of the 16th, you will receive a discount on the NABL seminar. Both the Symposium and the Seminar will take place at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 200 East Wells St. at Jernigan Place in Baltimore, Maryland. This Seminar is open to all. Seminar topics will include: 1. An update on recent case law affecting blind Americans; 2. Learning Braille and losing vision after becoming a lawyer; 3. Tips and tricks - trial techniques, examination of case files and other documents, and supervision of attorneys and other staff; 4. Research tools accessible to blind attorneys; and 5. Interviewing, selecting, and terminating staff. Admission to the NABL Seminar is $25 for those who have registered for the tenBroek Symposium and $50 for those who have not. For students, admission is free. Lunch will be provided. For those seeking CLE, certificates will be available. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to learn from and interact with fellow blind and visually impaired attorneys, law students and others. For further information, or to register, contact Scott LaBarre, President, NABL at slabarre at labarrelaw.com or 303 504-5979. You should register by April 8th or the cost of the seminar will increase by $15.00. **** Registration Deadline is April 8, 2010 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World A Cross-Disability Symposium April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Join many of the nation's leading disability rights advocates and scholars in a cross-disability consideration of the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to people with disabilities in * ADA/Rehabilitation Act * class actions & litigation issues * employment, * education, * medical treatment, and * access to technology KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: Tom Perez United States Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board American Association of People with Disabilities With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking with lawyers and other advocates who represent clients with a broad range of disabilities. 2010 plenary session speakers will be: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators will be: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Tony Coelho, Chairman of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, will be the keynote speakers. Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org This message has been brought to you by: Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garymelc%40msn.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4930 (20100309) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com From dandrews at visi.com Fri Mar 12 03:59:49 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 21:59:49 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Less Than A Month Remains! Message-ID: Individuals and organizations who are making significant contributions in helping to change what it means to be blind are encouraged to apply for the Dr. Jacob Bolotin Award presented by the National Federation of the Blind. Nominations and letters of support should be completed online by March 31 and winners will be notified by May 15. For consideration, nominees must live and work in the United States. The Federation will award $50,000 this year to recognize and support individuals and organizations who share and live the philosophy of the National Federation of the Blind and Dr. Bolotin. For further details, to nominate an individual or organization, or to support a nomination which has already been made, go to http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Bolotin_Award.asp __________________________ Megan Wills Technical Administrative Assistant National Federation of the Blind 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 P: 410-659-9314 x2461 F: 410-685-5653 E: mwills at nfb.org __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4934 (20100311) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From kc2992a at student.american.edu Fri Mar 12 20:00:17 2010 From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:00:17 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] law symposium Message-ID: <2fdbeb321003121200r4672270fg2255f2768135d6a8@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone! I am a college student living in DC, and plan on going to law school in the fall. I am attending the tenBroek law symposium , and i was wondering if anyone was looking for a room share for the symposium. I can't afford the hotel room on my own, and i don't have any friends living in Baltimore at this time. If you are looking to split the cost of a hotel room, or know anyone who would be willing to offer me a spot sleeping on their couch in Baltomore for a reasonable fee, please feel free to contact me at the phone number below or at kc2992a at student.american.edu Best, -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 14 07:32:02 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:32:02 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal hiring event for people with disabilities Message-ID: Federal Hiring Event for People with Disabilities U.S. Office of Personnel Management and U.S. Department of Labor April 26, 2010 http://www.usajobs.gov/DisabilityHiringEvent.asp ? The Office of Personnel Management (OPM) and the U S. Department of Labor's Office of Disability Employment Policy (ODEP) are sponsoring a historic day-long Federal Hiring Event for People with Disabilities. Representatives from many agencies will be reviewing resumes prior to the event, and inviting prospective candidates for interviews. ? HOW TO PARTICIPATE? Review the Hiring Event information, as well as the Individuals with Disabilities page (http://www.usajobs.gov/individualswithdisabilities.asp), or Veterans page (http://www.usajobs.gov/veterans.asp) on http://www.usajobs.gov.? Resumes must be submitted to the following email address: Hiringevent at opm.gov.? Documentation supporting the disability (e.g., proof of disability and job readiness certification letters) and/or veteran's status (e.g., VA letter and DD-214) can be provided with the resume, or at the time of an interview. [Note: To ensure the hiring process moves quickly and to expedite the agency's ability to make tentative offers, applicants are strongly encouraged to submit supporting documentation along with the resume.? Disabled veterans with less than a 30% rating or with non-service connected disabilities are encouraged to submit their resumes, along with proof of disability and job readiness. ? FOR MORE INFORMATION OR ASSISTANCE For assistance submitting a resume or questions regarding this Event, including the type of documentation required please forward the inquiry to the following email address: Hiringevent at opm.gov. ? WHAT TO EXPECT NEXT? Applicants will receive notification that the resume has been received. Agencies will review the resume and any supporting documentation provided. Applicants may be invited to attend the Hiring Event via email for an interview with one or more agencies and for one or more available positions. Applicants who are scheduled for interviews must bring the required documentation to the Hiring Event, if not previously provided. ? FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS http://www.usajobs.gov/DisabilityHiringEventFAQs.asp ? The following agencies will participate in this event. http://www.usajobs.gov/DisabilityHiringEvent.asp Agency for International Development Agriculture, Department of Commerce, Department of National Institute of Standards and Technology Census Bureau Commodity Futures Trading Commission Consumer Products Safety Commission Defense, Department of Army Materiel Command Defense Information Systems Agency Defense Intelligence Agency Defense Logistics Agency National Geospatial Intelligence Agency Naval Air Systems Command Naval Facilities Engineering Command Navy United States Marine Corps & USMC Wounded Warrior Program Education, Department of Environmental Protection Agency Federal Communications Commission Federal Energy Regulatory Commission General Services Administration Health and Human Services, Department of National Institute on Aging National Institutes of Health Homeland Security, Department of Domestic Nuclear Detection Office Office of Health Affairs Interior, Department of Fish and Wildlife Service Justice, Department of Labor, Department of Office of Administrative Law Judges Office of Employment and Training Administration Office of the Assistant Secretary for Administration and Management Office of Workers' Compensation Programs, Division of Energy Employees Occupational Illness Compensation. National Aeronautics and Space Administration National Security Administration National Transportation Safety Board Nuclear Regulatory Commission Office of Personnel Management Securities and Exchange Commission Smithsonian Institution Social Security Administration Transportation, Department of Federal Aviation Administration Treasury, Department of Bureau of the Public Debt Departmental Offices Internal Revenue Service Veterans Affairs, Department of Office of Inspector General [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lists at zufelt.ca Sun Mar 14 15:10:16 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 11:10:16 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of interactive / point-of-sales (POS) devices In-Reply-To: References: <4B4E09D7-ED99-4242-B839-127A5E1A6E95@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: Thank you to those who have provided me with feedback. I have written a brief blog post, followed by the list of resources I collected on this issue. Sorry, We Don't Serve the Blind: inaccessible point-of-sales devices http://zufelt.ca/article/Sorry%2C-We-Don%27t-Serve-the-Blind%3A-inaccessible-point-of-sales-devices Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-02-17, at 2:59 PM, Tim Shaw wrote: > > Here is the only resource I know of for this: > > > > http://www.captek.net/Captek/Talking_Cash_Registers.html > >> From: lists at zufelt.ca >> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:31:59 -0500 >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of interactive / point-of-sales (POS) devices >> >> Good morning, >> >> I am doing research into interactive devices, particularly point-of- >> sales / Interac / Debit (POS) devices. I am looking for resources, >> from any jurisdiction, of the following varieties to inform my report: >> >> 1. Examples of accessible POS or similar devices. >> >> 2 Any standards and guidelines for the accessibility of POS or similar >> devices. >> >> 3. Laws that mandate the full, or partial, accessibility of POS or >> similar devices. >> >> 4. Examples of successful use of laws to enforce the accessibility of >> POS devices. >> >> I will publicly post the list of resources that I collect for reuse. >> >> Thank you in advance, >> Everett >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From taiablas at gmail.com Mon Mar 15 00:58:18 2010 From: taiablas at gmail.com (Tai Blas) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:58:18 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] law symposium In-Reply-To: <2fdbeb321003121200r4672270fg2255f2768135d6a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <2fdbeb321003121200r4672270fg2255f2768135d6a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9946B4D07B7C4DDFB4894DED0B4EC247@blind.state.ia.us> I wonder if you might be able to arrange to stay in a room at the national center? You would have to call the NFB national center and check on this but it might be a possibility. Tai -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Katy Carroll Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 2:00 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] law symposium Hi everyone! I am a college student living in DC, and plan on going to law school in the fall. I am attending the tenBroek law symposium , and i was wondering if anyone was looking for a room share for the symposium. I can't afford the hotel room on my own, and i don't have any friends living in Baltimore at this time. If you are looking to split the cost of a hotel room, or know anyone who would be willing to offer me a spot sleeping on their couch in Baltomore for a reasonable fee, please feel free to contact me at the phone number below or at kc2992a at student.american.edu Best, -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4944 (20100314) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4944 (20100314) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From dfrye at nfb.org Mon Mar 15 02:51:43 2010 From: dfrye at nfb.org (Dan Frye) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:51:43 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] law symposium Message-ID: Kathryn: I'm sure accommodations can be made for one such as yourself in the sleeping facilities at the National Center for the Blind, Jernigan Institute, where this event is being held. While the accommodations aren't as plush as a hotel, they are certainly adequate for comfort and safety. Alternatively, if you've been advised that this cannot be managed for some reason with which I am not familiar, I'm sure my wife and I would be happy to have you stay at our home in our guest room. I work on the NFB's national staff, and could easily arrange for your commute and accommodations in our home, if room at the NCB is not available. Get a hold of Lou Ann Blake, the staff member managing logistics for the tenBroek Symposium, at (410) 659-9314 Extension 2221 and explain your circumstances to her. We look forward to your involvement in April. If you need to reach me, my contact details are below: With Kind Regards, Daniel B. Frye Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. ----- Original Message ----- From: Katy Carroll References: <4B4E09D7-ED99-4242-B839-127A5E1A6E95@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: <655E9C677C724BCF8A39466DEA7D6B7E@spike> You also may want to check the web site of Lainey Feingold an attorney here in California that has addressed these issues. Much of her work has been dealing with the structured negotiations entered into on behalf of ACB and other groups. its www.lflegal.com. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J. Zufelt" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Accessibility of interactive / point-of-sales(POS) devices Thank you to those who have provided me with feedback. I have written a brief blog post, followed by the list of resources I collected on this issue. Sorry, We Don't Serve the Blind: inaccessible point-of-sales devices http://zufelt.ca/article/Sorry%2C-We-Don%27t-Serve-the-Blind%3A-inaccessible-point-of-sales-devices Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-02-17, at 2:59 PM, Tim Shaw wrote: > > Here is the only resource I know of for this: > > > > http://www.captek.net/Captek/Talking_Cash_Registers.html > >> From: lists at zufelt.ca >> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:31:59 -0500 >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [blindlaw] Accessibility of interactive / point-of-sales (POS) >> devices >> >> Good morning, >> >> I am doing research into interactive devices, particularly point-of- >> sales / Interac / Debit (POS) devices. I am looking for resources, >> from any jurisdiction, of the following varieties to inform my report: >> >> 1. Examples of accessible POS or similar devices. >> >> 2 Any standards and guidelines for the accessibility of POS or similar >> devices. >> >> 3. Laws that mandate the full, or partial, accessibility of POS or >> similar devices. >> >> 4. Examples of successful use of laws to enforce the accessibility of >> POS devices. >> >> I will publicly post the list of resources that I collect for reuse. >> >> Thank you in advance, >> Everett >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Trusted email with MicrosoftÂ’s powerful SPAM protection. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Mar 15 20:13:14 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:13:14 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ED Office for Civil Rights (Denver) - additional vacancy announcements Message-ID: ________________________________ From: CMPDL's Disability Discussion Docket (3D) [mailto:CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG] On Behalf Of Phelan, William Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 5:19 AM To: CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG Subject: FW: Office for Civil Rights (Denver) - additional vacancy announcements FYI. Please note the closing date is 3 days away. William J. Phelan, IV, Esq. Special Projects and Technology Coordinator Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law American Bar Association phelanw at staff.abanet.org www.abanet.org/disability ________________________________ From: Mobley, Mary Lou [mailto:Mary.Lou.Mobley at ed.gov] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 1:44 PM To: Subject: Office for Civil Rights (Denver) - additional vacancy announcements Dear Minority and Disability Bar Representatives, We are seeking your assistance in recruiting a diverse applicant pool for two vacancy announcements we posted recently. They are for Equal Opportunity Specialists in my office, grades 7-12 (multiple vacancies). Applicants do not have to be members of the bar for these positions. The vacancy announcements close March 18th. The positions are with the Office for Civil Rights at the United States Department of Education in Region VIII. While our region covers the states of Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, and Utah, our only office is located in Denver. http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=86666045&JobTitle=Equal+Opportunity+Specialist%2c+GS-360-7%2c+9%2c+11%2c+12+(MPP)&brd=3876&vw=b&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&pg=1&where=denver&rad=0&rad_units=miles&re=0&jbf574=ED*&AVSDM=2010-03-05+00%3a03%3a00 http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=86666150&JobTitle=Equal+Opportunity+Specialist%2c+GS-360-7%2c+9%2c+11%2c+12+(DEU)&brd=3876&vw=b&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&pg=1&where=denver&rad=0&rad_units=miles&re=0&jbf574=ED*&AVSDM=2010-03-05+00%3a03%3a00 Please help us by giving these vacancy announcements the widest possible distribution. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you, Mary Lou Mobley, Regional Director Office for Civil Rights, Region VIII (Denver) U.S. Department of Education (303) 844-4480 --------- Going to respond to this message? Be sure to hit "Reply All" when doing so. [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/3Dlogo.jpg] Disability Discussion Docket (3D) ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law http://www.abanet.org/disability --------- To leave this list at any time, please send a message to listserv at mail.abanet.org. In the body of the message type "sign off cmpdl-3d." If you have any questions about 3D or the CMPDL in general, please contact William Phelan at phelanw at staff.abanet.org. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Mar 19 19:01:16 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:01:16 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: [Jobs] FW: The Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice is Recruiting (New Positions Added) -- March 2010 Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 9:04 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: The Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice is Recruiting (New Positions Added) -- March 2010 ________________________________ From: Special Programs Vacancies [mailto:CRT.SpecProgVacancies at usdoj.gov] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 12:01 PM To: Petrie, Diane E (CRT) Subject: The Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice is Recruiting (New Positions Added) -- March 2010 The Civil Rights Division (Division) would like to thank each of you for participating in our efforts to increase outreach to lawyers interested in working for the Division. By agreeing to receive our attorney job announcements, you are helping to make sure we have the best lawyers we can find. The application period for several of our positions will be closing in the next few weeks. If you have a convenient way to remind your constituents of the looming deadline, we would very much appreciate it. The Division hopes to attract a broad and diverse pool of qualified applicants, and, to that end, encourages you to forward this information to any qualified applicants, including qualified applicants with disabilities, who may be interested in working for the Division. For your convenience, all current Division job announcements are listed below. Please also remind members of your organization that all our lawyer job announcements can always be found on the Division's homepage, http://www.justice.gov/crt/recruit.php. In addition, if you know of other organizations that might want to receive our job announcements, please let them know the process is very simple. They just need to send an email to CRT.SpecProgVacancies at usdoj.gov. There are no elaborate forms to fill out - just an email indicating that the organization wishes to receive future job listings and the e-mail address for us to contact them. Please do not hesitate to let us know if you have suggestions on how we can improve our outreach efforts. Thank you. Current Civil Rights Division Job Announcements: Remarks Position Section Grade Salary Closing Date Civil Rights Analyst Voting GS-12 $74,872 - $97,333 3/25/2010 Chief Coordination and Review ES-00 $119,554 - $179,700 3/31/2010 Trial Attorney Employment Litigation GS-14/15 $105,211 - $155,500 4/1/2010 New Deputy Chief Disability Rights GS-15 $123,758 - $155,500 4/2/2010 New Assistant Employment Counsel Office of Employment Counsel GS-15 $123,758 - $155,500 4/6/2010 New Deputy Chief Coordination and Review GS-15 $123,758 - $155,500 4/9/2010 Deputy Chief Employment Litigation GS-15 $123,758 - $155,500 4/15/2010 Student Volunteer Professional Development Office volunteer n/a open until filled Student Volunteer Office of the Assistant Attorney General volunteer n/a open until filled Student Volunteer Coordination and Review volunteer n/a rolling basis Student Volunteer Various Sections volunteer n/a rolling basis Student Volunteer Educational Opportunities volunteer n/a rolling basis -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Sat Mar 20 22:30:18 2010 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 15:30:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] fed work Message-ID: <493095.15663.qm@web112417.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> This is a question for those of you who work in D.C. for the feds. I realize it's a bit off topic and I apologize to the list; however, I couldn't think of any other forum to ask these questions.  I'll begin working for the feds a week from this Monday.   First, legal research. Does your agency give you an agencywide ID and password for Westlaw and Lexis? Or do you have to sign up for either or both of these services yourself and pay for it out of your own pocket?   Next, mobility. Specifically, do the federal buildings have signs with braille denoting the room number, restrooms, etc.?   Third, documents. Is there braille on the vending machines? Braille menus in the cafeteria? Agency manuals in braille or electronic form?   Finally, transportation. If any of you use Metro Access to get back and forth from work, I would like to know what you've experienced. Specifically, how reliable are they if you want an early morning 6:00 a.m. pick up? How about picking up after work? How often do you get straight rides to work or from work to home versus shared rides? (I'm especially interested in the experiences of those of you who do a nine hour week, then four days of eight hours with the fifth day being a day off. California calls it 9-8-80; I don't know what the feds call it.)   That's all I can think of for now. Thanks.   Mike     From AZNOR99 at aol.com Sat Mar 20 23:13:04 2010 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:13:04 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] fed work Message-ID: <5eead.28e5d9f1.38d6b080@aol.com> Mike, Congratulations on your new job. Where will you be working? See below for my answers. First, legal research. Does your agency give you an agencywide ID and password for Westlaw and Lexis? Or do you have to sign up for either or both of these services yourself and pay for it out of your own pocket? Each federal agency has a subscription to either WestLaw or Lexis; some have both. You will need to request a user name and password from your agency or division librarian (or sometimes the rocurement officer can get it). I'd suggest you ask your first level supervisor how to get one. Next, mobility. Specifically, do the federal buildings have signs with braille denoting the room number, restrooms, etc.? Most federal buildings do have proper signage, however there are a few that are out of date or lacking some in some areas. However, this is very, very rare. Third, documents. Is there braille on the vending machines? Braille menus in the cafeteria? Agency manuals in braille or electronic form? Agency manuals have to be in electronic form because of Section 508 Guidelines. On occasion those manuals will be generated as PDFs, and once in a while someone will forget to OCR them. But this too is very, very rare. As for vending machines and menus, that'll depend on the specific agency's policies. For example, DHS does not have Braille on vending machines. I asked them to make a way for me to be able to purchase snacks, so they requested overlays on the machines the manufacturer could provide one, and they gave me a reader to read me the options so I could Braille out a list that was posted on the side. A matching list in large print was posted, and it became part of the guy's job who filled the machine to check to make sure no product was moved and to let me know if it was. The cafeteria menus were emailed to me, or a staff member reads them to me if they change day to day. Finally, transportation. If any of you use Metro Access to get back and forth from work, I would like to know what you've experienced. Specifically, how reliable are they if you want an early morning 6:00 a.m. pick up? How about picking up after work? How often do you get straight rides to work or from work to home versus shared rides? (I'm especially interested in the experiences of those of you who do a nine hour week, then four days of eight hours with the fifth day being a day off. California calls it 9-8-80; I don't know what the feds call it.) I don't use Metro Access so can't help you with that. But DC has perhaps the best system of public transportation in the country - I've literally never had to go anywhere that wasn't on a bus or Metro Line. The federal government will likely give you a transit subsidity to cover your public transportation costs, and trains and buses run nonstop. You're talking about AWS or Alternative Work Schedules. That's all I can think of for now. Thanks. Let me know if you have other questions. Also, consider reaching out to Herald Wilson for some mobility training and orientation to DC when you get here and Bridget Doherty for help learning the Metro. Ronza _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 13:15:24 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:15:24 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado Message-ID: <3E561A8243A84EC784E13827FB7DC238@hometwxakonvzn> Beth, I think this question would be better suited for this list. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:59 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > You have all made good points. I do have a question: how can I best > get the state agency to pay for Colorado and not give me hell about > the money? I'm seriously trying to find where it says in Section 504 > of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, but it says stuff about programs > that receive federal funding. NFB centers to my knowledge don't get > that, so I don't know how NFB centers apply. > Beth > > On 3/20/10, Elizabeth wrote: >> >> Well, with all do respect, I would not make a decision based solely upon >> hearing about one bad experience any more than I would on the cost of the >> airline ticket. Just because someone else had a bad experience does not >> necessarily mean that you will experience the same. Everyone goes to a >> training center at different stages of accepting their blindness and >> possibly their identity as simply just another person in this world who >> happens to be blind. So I think maturity can also play a role in how much >> you get out of a training center as well. >> >> And as far as learning specific skills like learning how to ride a >> subway, I >> do not think it really matters which center you choose because I think >> all >> three would prepare you to perform this skill. I know of several >> graduates >> from the Louisiana Center who ride the subway just fine. The key >> ingredient >> is confidence in thinking that you can perform a skill no matter what >> kind >> of situation you may encounter along the way. >> >> Elizabeth >> >> >> >>> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:40:28 -0400 >>> From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>> >>> Yes, I have. The thing that bothers me is that one girl didn't like >>> Louisiana as much as the other two people I've spoken to. Then, I >>> haven't spoken to anybody in Colorado student wise. But I spoke with >>> the director, so she says it's nice over there. She even gave me a >>> good reason to consider it. But I am having to decide quick because I >>> want to leave in May, and the state agency doesn't want to paqy in >>> full. Now, of course, we're not sure they're willing to pay at all. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>> > Honestly, you should probably consider lots of things way before plane >>> > fares. The three training centers are not exact copies of each other. >>> > Have >>> > you spoken with the directors or students of each center to gauge >>> > opinions? >>> > >>> > >>> > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>> > A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Beth" >>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> > >>> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:28 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>> > >>> > >>> >> Then what must I decide or what must my decision be based on? Now >>> >> that I know there's no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe, I've >>> >> got something in my favor, but what should the decision be based >>> >> upon? >>> >> Beth >>> >> >>> >> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>> >>> Beth, >>> >>> I did a quick check at dates in April, and the cheapest to Denver >>> >>> looks >>> >>> to >>> >>> be around $211 with the cheapest tickets coming from Delta. >>> >>> Midwest Airlines offers a nonstop route for $259 on various dates. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for Monroe, the cheapest dates in April offer a fare of $244 >>> >>> roundtrip, >>> >>> also from Delta. There is no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe. >>> >>> Prices for airline tickets change wildly, but there really doesn't >>> >>> seem >>> >>> to >>> >>> be a lot of difference between the two, and I wouldn't base my >>> >>> decision >>> >>> on >>> >>> which training center to visit purely on who has the cheapest >>> >>> flights. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>> >>> A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: "Beth" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:24 PM >>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hi, guys. As luck would have it, I am looking at plane fares for >>> >>>> both >>> >>>> Louisiana and Colorado so that I can get a cheaper bid on a >>> >>>> training >>> >>>> center, possibly Colorado. How much is it to fly, say, from Orlando >>> >>>> to Denver versus Orlando to Monroe, Louisiana? I'd like to know >>> >>>> also >>> >>>> what airlines you went with and so that I cancompare the prices. >>> >>>> Thanks. >>> >>>> Beth >>> >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>>> for >>> >>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>> for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >> inbox. >> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 14:28:12 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 10:28:12 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado Message-ID: <678A359433A54644BFA4581B401E88EB@hometwxakonvzn> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:59 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > You have all made good points. I do have a question: how can I best > get the state agency to pay for Colorado and not give me hell about > the money? I'm seriously trying to find where it says in Section 504 > of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, but it says stuff about programs > that receive federal funding. NFB centers to my knowledge don't get > that, so I don't know how NFB centers apply. > Beth > > On 3/20/10, Elizabeth wrote: >> >> Well, with all do respect, I would not make a decision based solely upon >> hearing about one bad experience any more than I would on the cost of the >> airline ticket. Just because someone else had a bad experience does not >> necessarily mean that you will experience the same. Everyone goes to a >> training center at different stages of accepting their blindness and >> possibly their identity as simply just another person in this world who >> happens to be blind. So I think maturity can also play a role in how much >> you get out of a training center as well. >> >> And as far as learning specific skills like learning how to ride a >> subway, I >> do not think it really matters which center you choose because I think >> all >> three would prepare you to perform this skill. I know of several >> graduates >> from the Louisiana Center who ride the subway just fine. The key >> ingredient >> is confidence in thinking that you can perform a skill no matter what >> kind >> of situation you may encounter along the way. >> >> Elizabeth >> >> >> >>> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:40:28 -0400 >>> From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>> >>> Yes, I have. The thing that bothers me is that one girl didn't like >>> Louisiana as much as the other two people I've spoken to. Then, I >>> haven't spoken to anybody in Colorado student wise. But I spoke with >>> the director, so she says it's nice over there. She even gave me a >>> good reason to consider it. But I am having to decide quick because I >>> want to leave in May, and the state agency doesn't want to paqy in >>> full. Now, of course, we're not sure they're willing to pay at all. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>> > Honestly, you should probably consider lots of things way before plane >>> > fares. The three training centers are not exact copies of each other. >>> > Have >>> > you spoken with the directors or students of each center to gauge >>> > opinions? >>> > >>> > >>> > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>> > A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Beth" >>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> > >>> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:28 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>> > >>> > >>> >> Then what must I decide or what must my decision be based on? Now >>> >> that I know there's no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe, I've >>> >> got something in my favor, but what should the decision be based >>> >> upon? >>> >> Beth >>> >> >>> >> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>> >>> Beth, >>> >>> I did a quick check at dates in April, and the cheapest to Denver >>> >>> looks >>> >>> to >>> >>> be around $211 with the cheapest tickets coming from Delta. >>> >>> Midwest Airlines offers a nonstop route for $259 on various dates. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for Monroe, the cheapest dates in April offer a fare of $244 >>> >>> roundtrip, >>> >>> also from Delta. There is no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe. >>> >>> Prices for airline tickets change wildly, but there really doesn't >>> >>> seem >>> >>> to >>> >>> be a lot of difference between the two, and I wouldn't base my >>> >>> decision >>> >>> on >>> >>> which training center to visit purely on who has the cheapest >>> >>> flights. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>> >>> A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: "Beth" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:24 PM >>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hi, guys. As luck would have it, I am looking at plane fares for >>> >>>> both >>> >>>> Louisiana and Colorado so that I can get a cheaper bid on a >>> >>>> training >>> >>>> center, possibly Colorado. How much is it to fly, say, from Orlando >>> >>>> to Denver versus Orlando to Monroe, Louisiana? I'd like to know >>> >>>> also >>> >>>> what airlines you went with and so that I cancompare the prices. >>> >>>> Thanks. >>> >>>> Beth >>> >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>>> for >>> >>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>> for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >> inbox. >> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From kc2992a at student.american.edu Sun Mar 21 20:37:11 2010 From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 16:37:11 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] advice Message-ID: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> Hi List! I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to you: Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. Not surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name and either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment or respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? I would appreciate any thoughts. -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 From k7uij at panix.com Sun Mar 21 22:07:44 2010 From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 15:07:44 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] advice References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Katie: In my opinion (and it is only that), you can't have your cake and eat it, too. Either you proclaim your blindness by either (a) carrying and using a white cane or (b) being accompanied by a sighted guide, thus making it a bit less awkward to ask questions and/or ask for introductions -- or you "pass" as sighted and put up with the consequences, i.e., the awkwardness of trying to gather information on other conference participants unobtrusively. Mike Freeman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 1:37 PM Subject: [blindlaw] advice > Hi List! > > I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this > dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, > unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to > you: > > Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. > Not > surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name > and > either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate > networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane > with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment > or > respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people > who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has > anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? > > I would appreciate any thoughts. > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > American University > 631 521 3018 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com From dandrews at visi.com Sun Mar 21 22:15:37 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:15:37 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.co m> References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: My answer is one you probably won't like. At one time I had some vision and felt I didn't need to carry a cane all the time, or none of the time. My vision wasn't perfect though and I sometimes had to ask for assistance, etc. People didn't understand, and I got all kinds of weird comments, reactions etc. I ultimately decided to carry a cane all the time, in part because it was a symbol of blindness, one that people understood, and one that took no explaining. I had to first accept my blindness though, my self as a blind person, and truly come to believe that I was the equal of any sighted person, I just happened to have a difference. People do look down on blind people, feel sorry for us, and lots of other things so it takes some courage and self confidence to flaunt it. Ork, the other option is to always give some kind of explanation -- I can see some but ..... I tried this and always felt like I was apologizing, or it made me feel inferior. Dave At 03:37 PM 3/21/2010, you wrote: >Hi List! > >I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this >dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, >unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to >you: > >Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. Not >surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name and >either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate >networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane >with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment or >respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people >who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has >anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Sun Mar 21 23:57:48 2010 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:57:48 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100321235748.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Hi Katy I have to agree that carrying a cane is the best solution, even if you don't use it in the manner that a totally blind person would. The presence of the cane let's people know that you are blind, and they may be more pro-active about introducing themselves to you, whereas, without the cane they may assume that you know who they are and are not interested in meeting them. I hope this is helpful. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: Katy Carroll To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Date: Sunday, Mar 21, 2010 16:47:21 Subject: [bllaw] advice > > > Hi List! > > I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this > dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, > unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to > you: > > Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. Not > surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name and > either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate > networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane > with me. However, I can't see other pbbness name tags, and can't comment or > respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people > who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has > anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? > > I would appreciate any thoughts. > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > American University > 631 521 3018 > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 21 23:48:47 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 16:48:47 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <20100321235748.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> <20100321235748.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: <0C982021-F8B5-4643-89F8-F0DC351F5D8C@sbcglobal.net> Carry a cane to signify that you desire a handicap, rather than as a functional tool? Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 22 00:42:48 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:42:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado In-Reply-To: <678A359433A54644BFA4581B401E88EB@hometwxakonvzn> References: <678A359433A54644BFA4581B401E88EB@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <39874DDA77694C9FBAA82359BABBCBE9@StevePC> I have posted on this subject in the past and caught some real junk from those belonging to the NFB. I am not a FNFB basher, as a matter of fact, I agree with a great deal of their philosophies. I'll say this to you: You should get as much out of the center in your area that you can while attempting to get funding for your trip to the Colorado program. If it doesn't work out then ask for some assistance to get to Colorado. The The Budgets' of the various state Rehabilitation services are really in bad shape. There a lot of consumers who are attempting to be served and have educational and vocational needs. Someone in the NFB told me that a rehabilitation agency should have to pay for a gifted student to attend Harvard. That is absolutely absurd. There is only so much money to go around during these difficult times. Here is another point for you to consider: In Kentucky: a client has been fighting with the Kentucky Office for the Blind for well over two years in order to get a trip to one of the NFB Centers. This person has wasted over two years of his life fighting the agency. He did not attend the McDowell Center while fighting this out in various administrative processes and in court. This person could have been working his rehab plan while trying to get a trip to an NFB Center. This consumer chose not to follow that path. I think he made a huge mistake. He should have been attending the McDowell Center while fighting his battles with the Kentucky Office for the Blind. He will not get back those two or three years of his life. I don't know if the case has been resolved as of this posting. Steve Deeley ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:28 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:59 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > > >> You have all made good points. I do have a question: how can I best >> get the state agency to pay for Colorado and not give me hell about >> the money? I'm seriously trying to find where it says in Section 504 >> of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, but it says stuff about programs >> that receive federal funding. NFB centers to my knowledge don't get >> that, so I don't know how NFB centers apply. >> Beth >> >> On 3/20/10, Elizabeth wrote: >>> >>> Well, with all do respect, I would not make a decision based solely upon >>> hearing about one bad experience any more than I would on the cost of >>> the >>> airline ticket. Just because someone else had a bad experience does not >>> necessarily mean that you will experience the same. Everyone goes to a >>> training center at different stages of accepting their blindness and >>> possibly their identity as simply just another person in this world who >>> happens to be blind. So I think maturity can also play a role in how >>> much >>> you get out of a training center as well. >>> >>> And as far as learning specific skills like learning how to ride a >>> subway, I >>> do not think it really matters which center you choose because I think >>> all >>> three would prepare you to perform this skill. I know of several >>> graduates >>> from the Louisiana Center who ride the subway just fine. The key >>> ingredient >>> is confidence in thinking that you can perform a skill no matter what >>> kind >>> of situation you may encounter along the way. >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> >>> >>> >>>> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:40:28 -0400 >>>> From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>> >>>> Yes, I have. The thing that bothers me is that one girl didn't like >>>> Louisiana as much as the other two people I've spoken to. Then, I >>>> haven't spoken to anybody in Colorado student wise. But I spoke with >>>> the director, so she says it's nice over there. She even gave me a >>>> good reason to consider it. But I am having to decide quick because I >>>> want to leave in May, and the state agency doesn't want to paqy in >>>> full. Now, of course, we're not sure they're willing to pay at all. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>> > Honestly, you should probably consider lots of things way before >>>> > plane >>>> > fares. The three training centers are not exact copies of each other. >>>> > Have >>>> > you spoken with the directors or students of each center to gauge >>>> > opinions? >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>> > A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: "Beth" >>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> > >>>> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:28 PM >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> Then what must I decide or what must my decision be based on? Now >>>> >> that I know there's no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe, I've >>>> >> got something in my favor, but what should the decision be based >>>> >> upon? >>>> >> Beth >>>> >> >>>> >> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>> >>> Beth, >>>> >>> I did a quick check at dates in April, and the cheapest to Denver >>>> >>> looks >>>> >>> to >>>> >>> be around $211 with the cheapest tickets coming from Delta. >>>> >>> Midwest Airlines offers a nonstop route for $259 on various dates. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> As for Monroe, the cheapest dates in April offer a fare of $244 >>>> >>> roundtrip, >>>> >>> also from Delta. There is no nonstop service from Orlando to >>>> >>> Monroe. >>>> >>> Prices for airline tickets change wildly, but there really doesn't >>>> >>> seem >>>> >>> to >>>> >>> be a lot of difference between the two, and I wouldn't base my >>>> >>> decision >>>> >>> on >>>> >>> which training center to visit purely on who has the cheapest >>>> >>> flights. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>> >>> A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>> From: "Beth" >>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" >>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:24 PM >>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> Hi, guys. As luck would have it, I am looking at plane fares for >>>> >>>> both >>>> >>>> Louisiana and Colorado so that I can get a cheaper bid on a >>>> >>>> training >>>> >>>> center, possibly Colorado. How much is it to fly, say, from >>>> >>>> Orlando >>>> >>>> to Denver versus Orlando to Monroe, Louisiana? I'd like to know >>>> >>>> also >>>> >>>> what airlines you went with and so that I cancompare the prices. >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>>> for >>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>> for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >> for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >>> inbox. >>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2759 - Release Date: 03/20/10 07:33:00 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 22 06:43:25 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 23:43:25 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <20100321235748.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> <20100321235748.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: <34567F3A3AC7428AA39E1CA46C8E8E8F@spike> I would definitely agree. While I can see enough to get around I can't see to distinguish people's features or read. Carrying the cane is not only a protection for myself but for others as well in that let's them know that there are limitations to my vision such as no peripheral vision or recognition of people. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "ray wayne" To: Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > Hi Katy > I have to agree that carrying a cane is the best solution, even if you > don't use it in the manner that a totally blind person would. The presence > of the cane let's people know that you are blind, and they may be more > pro-active about introducing themselves to you, whereas, without the cane > they may assume that you know who they are and are not interested in > meeting them. > I hope this is helpful. > Ray > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Katy Carroll > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Date: Sunday, Mar 21, 2010 16:47:21 > Subject: [bllaw] advice > >> >> >> Hi List! >> >> I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this >> dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, >> unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to >> you: >> >> Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. >> Not >> surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name >> and >> either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate >> networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane >> with me. However, I can't see other pbbness name tags, and can't comment >> or >> respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people >> who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has >> anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? >> >> I would appreciate any thoughts. >> >> -- >> Kathryn CARROLL >> American University >> 631 521 3018 >> _______________________________________________ >> bllaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> bllaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 06:49:31 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 01:49:31 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <34567F3A3AC7428AA39E1CA46C8E8E8F@spike> References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> <20100321235748.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> <34567F3A3AC7428AA39E1CA46C8E8E8F@spike> Message-ID: <022201cac98b$d45de1c0$7d19a540$@com> I agree with all the suggestions. Whip that cane out and as stated, people will tend to be ready to share the info you need without you seeming any bit slow. Good luck as you progress in your career. Will -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:43 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice I would definitely agree. While I can see enough to get around I can't see to distinguish people's features or read. Carrying the cane is not only a protection for myself but for others as well in that let's them know that there are limitations to my vision such as no peripheral vision or recognition of people. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "ray wayne" To: Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > Hi Katy > I have to agree that carrying a cane is the best solution, even if you > don't use it in the manner that a totally blind person would. The presence > of the cane let's people know that you are blind, and they may be more > pro-active about introducing themselves to you, whereas, without the cane > they may assume that you know who they are and are not interested in > meeting them. > I hope this is helpful. > Ray > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Katy Carroll > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Date: Sunday, Mar 21, 2010 16:47:21 > Subject: [bllaw] advice > >> >> >> Hi List! >> >> I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this >> dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, >> unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to >> you: >> >> Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. >> Not >> surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name >> and >> either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate >> networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane >> with me. However, I can't see other pbbness name tags, and can't comment >> or >> respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people >> who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has >> anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? >> >> I would appreciate any thoughts. >> >> -- >> Kathryn CARROLL >> American University >> 631 521 3018 >> _______________________________________________ >> bllaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> bllaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.c om > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 12:14:21 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 08:14:21 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado In-Reply-To: <39874DDA77694C9FBAA82359BABBCBE9@StevePC> References: <678A359433A54644BFA4581B401E88EB@hometwxakonvzn> <39874DDA77694C9FBAA82359BABBCBE9@StevePC> Message-ID: <4383d01d1003220514w6a53bac7w8c5527f0363abae2@mail.gmail.com> The thing is that the Daytona center in Florida is not comprable. I've heard more than one horror story about it, and anybody in Florida who's on this list can attest to that. They don't use the cane as the NFB suggests. Beth On 3/21/10, Steve P. Deeley wrote: > I have posted on this subject in the past and caught some real junk from > those belonging to the NFB. I am not a FNFB basher, as a matter of fact, I > agree with a great deal of their philosophies. I'll say this to you: > You should get as much out of the center in your area that you can while > attempting to get funding for your trip to the Colorado program. If it > doesn't work out then ask for some assistance to get to Colorado. The The > Budgets' of the various state Rehabilitation services are really in bad > shape. There a lot of consumers who are attempting to be served and have > educational and vocational needs. Someone in the NFB told me that a > rehabilitation agency should have to pay for a gifted student to attend > Harvard. That is absolutely absurd. There is only so much money to go > around during these difficult times. > Here is another point for you to consider: In Kentucky: a client has been > fighting with the Kentucky Office for the Blind for well over two years in > order to get a trip to one of the NFB Centers. This person has wasted over > two years of his life fighting the agency. He did not attend the McDowell > Center while fighting this out in various administrative processes and in > court. This person could have been working his rehab plan while trying to > get a trip to an NFB Center. This consumer chose not to follow that path. > I think he made a huge mistake. He should have been attending the McDowell > Center while fighting his battles with the Kentucky Office for the Blind. > He will not get back those two or three years of his life. I don't know if > the case has been resolved as of this posting. > > Steve Deeley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:28 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:59 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >> >> >>> You have all made good points. I do have a question: how can I best >>> get the state agency to pay for Colorado and not give me hell about >>> the money? I'm seriously trying to find where it says in Section 504 >>> of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, but it says stuff about programs >>> that receive federal funding. NFB centers to my knowledge don't get >>> that, so I don't know how NFB centers apply. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 3/20/10, Elizabeth wrote: >>>> >>>> Well, with all do respect, I would not make a decision based solely upon >>>> hearing about one bad experience any more than I would on the cost of >>>> the >>>> airline ticket. Just because someone else had a bad experience does not >>>> necessarily mean that you will experience the same. Everyone goes to a >>>> training center at different stages of accepting their blindness and >>>> possibly their identity as simply just another person in this world who >>>> happens to be blind. So I think maturity can also play a role in how >>>> much >>>> you get out of a training center as well. >>>> >>>> And as far as learning specific skills like learning how to ride a >>>> subway, I >>>> do not think it really matters which center you choose because I think >>>> all >>>> three would prepare you to perform this skill. I know of several >>>> graduates >>>> from the Louisiana Center who ride the subway just fine. The key >>>> ingredient >>>> is confidence in thinking that you can perform a skill no matter what >>>> kind >>>> of situation you may encounter along the way. >>>> >>>> Elizabeth >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:40:28 -0400 >>>>> From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>> >>>>> Yes, I have. The thing that bothers me is that one girl didn't like >>>>> Louisiana as much as the other two people I've spoken to. Then, I >>>>> haven't spoken to anybody in Colorado student wise. But I spoke with >>>>> the director, so she says it's nice over there. She even gave me a >>>>> good reason to consider it. But I am having to decide quick because I >>>>> want to leave in May, and the state agency doesn't want to paqy in >>>>> full. Now, of course, we're not sure they're willing to pay at all. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>> > Honestly, you should probably consider lots of things way before >>>>> > plane >>>>> > fares. The three training centers are not exact copies of each other. >>>>> > Have >>>>> > you spoken with the directors or students of each center to gauge >>>>> > opinions? >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>> > A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> > From: "Beth" >>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> > >>>>> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:28 PM >>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >> Then what must I decide or what must my decision be based on? Now >>>>> >> that I know there's no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe, I've >>>>> >> got something in my favor, but what should the decision be based >>>>> >> upon? >>>>> >> Beth >>>>> >> >>>>> >> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>> >>> Beth, >>>>> >>> I did a quick check at dates in April, and the cheapest to Denver >>>>> >>> looks >>>>> >>> to >>>>> >>> be around $211 with the cheapest tickets coming from Delta. >>>>> >>> Midwest Airlines offers a nonstop route for $259 on various dates. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> As for Monroe, the cheapest dates in April offer a fare of $244 >>>>> >>> roundtrip, >>>>> >>> also from Delta. There is no nonstop service from Orlando to >>>>> >>> Monroe. >>>>> >>> Prices for airline tickets change wildly, but there really doesn't >>>>> >>> seem >>>>> >>> to >>>>> >>> be a lot of difference between the two, and I wouldn't base my >>>>> >>> decision >>>>> >>> on >>>>> >>> which training center to visit purely on who has the cheapest >>>>> >>> flights. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>> >>> A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>> From: "Beth" >>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>> ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" >>>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:24 PM >>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> Hi, guys. As luck would have it, I am looking at plane fares for >>>>> >>>> both >>>>> >>>> Louisiana and Colorado so that I can get a cheaper bid on a >>>>> >>>> training >>>>> >>>> center, possibly Colorado. How much is it to fly, say, from >>>>> >>>> Orlando >>>>> >>>> to Denver versus Orlando to Monroe, Louisiana? I'd like to know >>>>> >>>> also >>>>> >>>> what airlines you went with and so that I cancompare the prices. >>>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>> Beth >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >>>> for >>>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >>> for >>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >> for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >>>> inbox. >>>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2759 - Release Date: 03/20/10 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 14:19:23 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:19:23 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado References: <678A359433A54644BFA4581B401E88EB@hometwxakonvzn><39874DDA77694C9FBAA82359BABBCBE9@StevePC> <4383d01d1003220514w6a53bac7w8c5527f0363abae2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2D888D2D79BA4E319737AB4194DB2B83@hometwxakonvzn> She is correct, I went to the same center she is refuring to, and they told me I wasn't college materal, and my best bet was flipping hamburgers. Now, If we can get back to her question, hopefuly, there is a lawyer on here who can answer her question as far as the rehabilitation act of 1973 is concerned. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > The thing is that the Daytona center in Florida is not comprable. > I've heard more than one horror story about it, and anybody in Florida > who's on this list can attest to that. They don't use the cane as the > NFB suggests. > Beth > > On 3/21/10, Steve P. Deeley wrote: >> I have posted on this subject in the past and caught some real junk from >> those belonging to the NFB. I am not a FNFB basher, as a matter of fact, >> I >> agree with a great deal of their philosophies. I'll say this to you: >> You should get as much out of the center in your area that you can while >> attempting to get funding for your trip to the Colorado program. If it >> doesn't work out then ask for some assistance to get to Colorado. The >> The >> Budgets' of the various state Rehabilitation services are really in bad >> shape. There a lot of consumers who are attempting to be served and have >> educational and vocational needs. Someone in the NFB told me that a >> rehabilitation agency should have to pay for a gifted student to attend >> Harvard. That is absolutely absurd. There is only so much money to go >> around during these difficult times. >> Here is another point for you to consider: In Kentucky: a client has >> been >> fighting with the Kentucky Office for the Blind for well over two years >> in >> order to get a trip to one of the NFB Centers. This person has wasted >> over >> two years of his life fighting the agency. He did not attend the >> McDowell >> Center while fighting this out in various administrative processes and in >> court. This person could have been working his rehab plan while trying >> to >> get a trip to an NFB Center. This consumer chose not to follow that >> path. >> I think he made a huge mistake. He should have been attending the >> McDowell >> Center while fighting his battles with the Kentucky Office for the Blind. >> He will not get back those two or three years of his life. I don't know >> if >> the case has been resolved as of this posting. >> >> Steve Deeley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:28 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >> >> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:59 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>> >>> >>>> You have all made good points. I do have a question: how can I best >>>> get the state agency to pay for Colorado and not give me hell about >>>> the money? I'm seriously trying to find where it says in Section 504 >>>> of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, but it says stuff about programs >>>> that receive federal funding. NFB centers to my knowledge don't get >>>> that, so I don't know how NFB centers apply. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 3/20/10, Elizabeth wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Well, with all do respect, I would not make a decision based solely >>>>> upon >>>>> hearing about one bad experience any more than I would on the cost of >>>>> the >>>>> airline ticket. Just because someone else had a bad experience does >>>>> not >>>>> necessarily mean that you will experience the same. Everyone goes to a >>>>> training center at different stages of accepting their blindness and >>>>> possibly their identity as simply just another person in this world >>>>> who >>>>> happens to be blind. So I think maturity can also play a role in how >>>>> much >>>>> you get out of a training center as well. >>>>> >>>>> And as far as learning specific skills like learning how to ride a >>>>> subway, I >>>>> do not think it really matters which center you choose because I think >>>>> all >>>>> three would prepare you to perform this skill. I know of several >>>>> graduates >>>>> from the Louisiana Center who ride the subway just fine. The key >>>>> ingredient >>>>> is confidence in thinking that you can perform a skill no matter what >>>>> kind >>>>> of situation you may encounter along the way. >>>>> >>>>> Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:40:28 -0400 >>>>>> From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, I have. The thing that bothers me is that one girl didn't like >>>>>> Louisiana as much as the other two people I've spoken to. Then, I >>>>>> haven't spoken to anybody in Colorado student wise. But I spoke with >>>>>> the director, so she says it's nice over there. She even gave me a >>>>>> good reason to consider it. But I am having to decide quick because I >>>>>> want to leave in May, and the state agency doesn't want to paqy in >>>>>> full. Now, of course, we're not sure they're willing to pay at all. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>> > Honestly, you should probably consider lots of things way before >>>>>> > plane >>>>>> > fares. The three training centers are not exact copies of each >>>>>> > other. >>>>>> > Have >>>>>> > you spoken with the directors or students of each center to gauge >>>>>> > opinions? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>> > A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> > From: "Beth" >>>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:28 PM >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> Then what must I decide or what must my decision be based on? Now >>>>>> >> that I know there's no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe, >>>>>> >> I've >>>>>> >> got something in my favor, but what should the decision be based >>>>>> >> upon? >>>>>> >> Beth >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>> >>> Beth, >>>>>> >>> I did a quick check at dates in April, and the cheapest to Denver >>>>>> >>> looks >>>>>> >>> to >>>>>> >>> be around $211 with the cheapest tickets coming from Delta. >>>>>> >>> Midwest Airlines offers a nonstop route for $259 on various >>>>>> >>> dates. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> As for Monroe, the cheapest dates in April offer a fare of $244 >>>>>> >>> roundtrip, >>>>>> >>> also from Delta. There is no nonstop service from Orlando to >>>>>> >>> Monroe. >>>>>> >>> Prices for airline tickets change wildly, but there really >>>>>> >>> doesn't >>>>>> >>> seem >>>>>> >>> to >>>>>> >>> be a lot of difference between the two, and I wouldn't base my >>>>>> >>> decision >>>>>> >>> on >>>>>> >>> which training center to visit purely on who has the cheapest >>>>>> >>> flights. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>> >>> A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>> ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:24 PM >>>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>> Hi, guys. As luck would have it, I am looking at plane fares for >>>>>> >>>> both >>>>>> >>>> Louisiana and Colorado so that I can get a cheaper bid on a >>>>>> >>>> training >>>>>> >>>> center, possibly Colorado. How much is it to fly, say, from >>>>>> >>>> Orlando >>>>>> >>>> to Denver versus Orlando to Monroe, Louisiana? I'd like to know >>>>>> >>>> also >>>>>> >>>> what airlines you went with and so that I cancompare the prices. >>>>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>>>> >>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> >>>> info >>>>>> >>>> for >>>>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> >>> for >>>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> >> for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> > for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >>>>> inbox. >>>>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2759 - Release Date: 03/20/10 >> 07:33:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Mon Mar 22 14:43:05 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:43:05 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D6C84@EVS02.central.pima.gov> I have run into similar issues, and have started carrying the cane more often as a result also - I have a fair amount of partial vision in my left eye, which allows me to navigate around the large objects, but see no detail or faces (until I'm within 6 inches - not appropriate for folks one doesn't know, of course). At any rate, I can't say that it is a perfect solution, but it does at least get some people aware of the situation. For those that still don't "get it", I am afraid that there is no good solution. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Sunday, 21 March, 2010 3:16 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice My answer is one you probably won't like. At one time I had some vision and felt I didn't need to carry a cane all the time, or none of the time. My vision wasn't perfect though and I sometimes had to ask for assistance, etc. People didn't understand, and I got all kinds of weird comments, reactions etc. I ultimately decided to carry a cane all the time, in part because it was a symbol of blindness, one that people understood, and one that took no explaining. I had to first accept my blindness though, my self as a blind person, and truly come to believe that I was the equal of any sighted person, I just happened to have a difference. People do look down on blind people, feel sorry for us, and lots of other things so it takes some courage and self confidence to flaunt it. Ork, the other option is to always give some kind of explanation -- I can see some but ..... I tried this and always felt like I was apologizing, or it made me feel inferior. Dave At 03:37 PM 3/21/2010, you wrote: >Hi List! > >I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this >dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, >unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to >you: > >Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. Not >surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name and >either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate >networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane >with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment or >respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people >who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has >anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 22 16:44:26 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:44:26 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado In-Reply-To: <2D888D2D79BA4E319737AB4194DB2B83@hometwxakonvzn> References: <678A359433A54644BFA4581B401E88EB@hometwxakonvzn> <39874DDA77694C9FBAA82359BABBCBE9@StevePC> <4383d01d1003220514w6a53bac7w8c5527f0363abae2@mail.gmail.com> <2D888D2D79BA4E319737AB4194DB2B83@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <530462F9BFF34F7C968C90C2EF7EB25D@StevePC> How do you propose to pay for this stuff? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > She is correct, I went to the same center she is refuring to, and they > told > me I wasn't college materal, and my best bet was flipping hamburgers. Now, > If we can get back to her question, hopefuly, there is a lawyer on here > who > can answer her question as far as the rehabilitation act of 1973 is > concerned. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:14 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and > Colorado > > >> The thing is that the Daytona center in Florida is not comprable. >> I've heard more than one horror story about it, and anybody in Florida >> who's on this list can attest to that. They don't use the cane as the >> NFB suggests. >> Beth >> >> On 3/21/10, Steve P. Deeley wrote: >>> I have posted on this subject in the past and caught some real junk from >>> those belonging to the NFB. I am not a FNFB basher, as a matter of >>> fact, >>> I >>> agree with a great deal of their philosophies. I'll say this to you: >>> You should get as much out of the center in your area that you can while >>> attempting to get funding for your trip to the Colorado program. If it >>> doesn't work out then ask for some assistance to get to Colorado. The >>> The >>> Budgets' of the various state Rehabilitation services are really in bad >>> shape. There a lot of consumers who are attempting to be served and >>> have >>> educational and vocational needs. Someone in the NFB told me that a >>> rehabilitation agency should have to pay for a gifted student to attend >>> Harvard. That is absolutely absurd. There is only so much money to go >>> around during these difficult times. >>> Here is another point for you to consider: In Kentucky: a client has >>> been >>> fighting with the Kentucky Office for the Blind for well over two years >>> in >>> order to get a trip to one of the NFB Centers. This person has wasted >>> over >>> two years of his life fighting the agency. He did not attend the >>> McDowell >>> Center while fighting this out in various administrative processes and >>> in >>> court. This person could have been working his rehab plan while trying >>> to >>> get a trip to an NFB Center. This consumer chose not to follow that >>> path. >>> I think he made a huge mistake. He should have been attending the >>> McDowell >>> Center while fighting his battles with the Kentucky Office for the >>> Blind. >>> He will not get back those two or three years of his life. I don't know >>> if >>> the case has been resolved as of this posting. >>> >>> Steve Deeley >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:28 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>> >>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:59 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>> >>>> >>>>> You have all made good points. I do have a question: how can I best >>>>> get the state agency to pay for Colorado and not give me hell about >>>>> the money? I'm seriously trying to find where it says in Section 504 >>>>> of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, but it says stuff about programs >>>>> that receive federal funding. NFB centers to my knowledge don't get >>>>> that, so I don't know how NFB centers apply. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 3/20/10, Elizabeth wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, with all do respect, I would not make a decision based solely >>>>>> upon >>>>>> hearing about one bad experience any more than I would on the cost of >>>>>> the >>>>>> airline ticket. Just because someone else had a bad experience does >>>>>> not >>>>>> necessarily mean that you will experience the same. Everyone goes to >>>>>> a >>>>>> training center at different stages of accepting their blindness and >>>>>> possibly their identity as simply just another person in this world >>>>>> who >>>>>> happens to be blind. So I think maturity can also play a role in how >>>>>> much >>>>>> you get out of a training center as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> And as far as learning specific skills like learning how to ride a >>>>>> subway, I >>>>>> do not think it really matters which center you choose because I >>>>>> think >>>>>> all >>>>>> three would prepare you to perform this skill. I know of several >>>>>> graduates >>>>>> from the Louisiana Center who ride the subway just fine. The key >>>>>> ingredient >>>>>> is confidence in thinking that you can perform a skill no matter what >>>>>> kind >>>>>> of situation you may encounter along the way. >>>>>> >>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:40:28 -0400 >>>>>>> From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, I have. The thing that bothers me is that one girl didn't like >>>>>>> Louisiana as much as the other two people I've spoken to. Then, I >>>>>>> haven't spoken to anybody in Colorado student wise. But I spoke with >>>>>>> the director, so she says it's nice over there. She even gave me a >>>>>>> good reason to consider it. But I am having to decide quick because >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> want to leave in May, and the state agency doesn't want to paqy in >>>>>>> full. Now, of course, we're not sure they're willing to pay at all. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>>> > Honestly, you should probably consider lots of things way before >>>>>>> > plane >>>>>>> > fares. The three training centers are not exact copies of each >>>>>>> > other. >>>>>>> > Have >>>>>>> > you spoken with the directors or students of each center to gauge >>>>>>> > opinions? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>>> > A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> > From: "Beth" >>>>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:28 PM >>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >> Then what must I decide or what must my decision be based on? Now >>>>>>> >> that I know there's no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe, >>>>>>> >> I've >>>>>>> >> got something in my favor, but what should the decision be based >>>>>>> >> upon? >>>>>>> >> Beth >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>>> >>> Beth, >>>>>>> >>> I did a quick check at dates in April, and the cheapest to >>>>>>> >>> Denver >>>>>>> >>> looks >>>>>>> >>> to >>>>>>> >>> be around $211 with the cheapest tickets coming from Delta. >>>>>>> >>> Midwest Airlines offers a nonstop route for $259 on various >>>>>>> >>> dates. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> As for Monroe, the cheapest dates in April offer a fare of $244 >>>>>>> >>> roundtrip, >>>>>>> >>> also from Delta. There is no nonstop service from Orlando to >>>>>>> >>> Monroe. >>>>>>> >>> Prices for airline tickets change wildly, but there really >>>>>>> >>> doesn't >>>>>>> >>> seem >>>>>>> >>> to >>>>>>> >>> be a lot of difference between the two, and I wouldn't base my >>>>>>> >>> decision >>>>>>> >>> on >>>>>>> >>> which training center to visit purely on who has the cheapest >>>>>>> >>> flights. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>>> >>> A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> >>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>> ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:24 PM >>>>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>> Hi, guys. As luck would have it, I am looking at plane fares >>>>>>> >>>> for >>>>>>> >>>> both >>>>>>> >>>> Louisiana and Colorado so that I can get a cheaper bid on a >>>>>>> >>>> training >>>>>>> >>>> center, possibly Colorado. How much is it to fly, say, from >>>>>>> >>>> Orlando >>>>>>> >>>> to Denver versus Orlando to Monroe, Louisiana? I'd like to know >>>>>>> >>>> also >>>>>>> >>>> what airlines you went with and so that I cancompare the >>>>>>> >>>> prices. >>>>>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>>>>> >>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> >>>> info >>>>>>> >>>> for >>>>>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> >>> info >>>>>>> >>> for >>>>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> >> for >>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> > for >>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >>>>>> inbox. >>>>>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2759 - Release Date: 03/20/10 >>> 07:33:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2763 - Release Date: 03/22/10 07:33:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 22 16:46:05 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:46:05 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado In-Reply-To: <4383d01d1003220514w6a53bac7w8c5527f0363abae2@mail.gmail.com> References: <678A359433A54644BFA4581B401E88EB@hometwxakonvzn> <39874DDA77694C9FBAA82359BABBCBE9@StevePC> <4383d01d1003220514w6a53bac7w8c5527f0363abae2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <761360369D554ACCA1F148F5E3A05B10@StevePC> Again, I am talking how will this be paid for??? I suggest that NFB foot the bills for those who want to attend NFB centers. Steeve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > The thing is that the Daytona center in Florida is not comprable. > I've heard more than one horror story about it, and anybody in Florida > who's on this list can attest to that. They don't use the cane as the > NFB suggests. > Beth > > On 3/21/10, Steve P. Deeley wrote: >> I have posted on this subject in the past and caught some real junk from >> those belonging to the NFB. I am not a FNFB basher, as a matter of fact, >> I >> agree with a great deal of their philosophies. I'll say this to you: >> You should get as much out of the center in your area that you can while >> attempting to get funding for your trip to the Colorado program. If it >> doesn't work out then ask for some assistance to get to Colorado. The >> The >> Budgets' of the various state Rehabilitation services are really in bad >> shape. There a lot of consumers who are attempting to be served and have >> educational and vocational needs. Someone in the NFB told me that a >> rehabilitation agency should have to pay for a gifted student to attend >> Harvard. That is absolutely absurd. There is only so much money to go >> around during these difficult times. >> Here is another point for you to consider: In Kentucky: a client has >> been >> fighting with the Kentucky Office for the Blind for well over two years >> in >> order to get a trip to one of the NFB Centers. This person has wasted >> over >> two years of his life fighting the agency. He did not attend the >> McDowell >> Center while fighting this out in various administrative processes and in >> court. This person could have been working his rehab plan while trying >> to >> get a trip to an NFB Center. This consumer chose not to follow that >> path. >> I think he made a huge mistake. He should have been attending the >> McDowell >> Center while fighting his battles with the Kentucky Office for the Blind. >> He will not get back those two or three years of his life. I don't know >> if >> the case has been resolved as of this posting. >> >> Steve Deeley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:28 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >> >> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:59 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>> >>> >>>> You have all made good points. I do have a question: how can I best >>>> get the state agency to pay for Colorado and not give me hell about >>>> the money? I'm seriously trying to find where it says in Section 504 >>>> of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, but it says stuff about programs >>>> that receive federal funding. NFB centers to my knowledge don't get >>>> that, so I don't know how NFB centers apply. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 3/20/10, Elizabeth wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Well, with all do respect, I would not make a decision based solely >>>>> upon >>>>> hearing about one bad experience any more than I would on the cost of >>>>> the >>>>> airline ticket. Just because someone else had a bad experience does >>>>> not >>>>> necessarily mean that you will experience the same. Everyone goes to a >>>>> training center at different stages of accepting their blindness and >>>>> possibly their identity as simply just another person in this world >>>>> who >>>>> happens to be blind. So I think maturity can also play a role in how >>>>> much >>>>> you get out of a training center as well. >>>>> >>>>> And as far as learning specific skills like learning how to ride a >>>>> subway, I >>>>> do not think it really matters which center you choose because I think >>>>> all >>>>> three would prepare you to perform this skill. I know of several >>>>> graduates >>>>> from the Louisiana Center who ride the subway just fine. The key >>>>> ingredient >>>>> is confidence in thinking that you can perform a skill no matter what >>>>> kind >>>>> of situation you may encounter along the way. >>>>> >>>>> Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:40:28 -0400 >>>>>> From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, I have. The thing that bothers me is that one girl didn't like >>>>>> Louisiana as much as the other two people I've spoken to. Then, I >>>>>> haven't spoken to anybody in Colorado student wise. But I spoke with >>>>>> the director, so she says it's nice over there. She even gave me a >>>>>> good reason to consider it. But I am having to decide quick because I >>>>>> want to leave in May, and the state agency doesn't want to paqy in >>>>>> full. Now, of course, we're not sure they're willing to pay at all. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>> > Honestly, you should probably consider lots of things way before >>>>>> > plane >>>>>> > fares. The three training centers are not exact copies of each >>>>>> > other. >>>>>> > Have >>>>>> > you spoken with the directors or students of each center to gauge >>>>>> > opinions? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>> > A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> > From: "Beth" >>>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:28 PM >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> Then what must I decide or what must my decision be based on? Now >>>>>> >> that I know there's no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe, >>>>>> >> I've >>>>>> >> got something in my favor, but what should the decision be based >>>>>> >> upon? >>>>>> >> Beth >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>> >>> Beth, >>>>>> >>> I did a quick check at dates in April, and the cheapest to Denver >>>>>> >>> looks >>>>>> >>> to >>>>>> >>> be around $211 with the cheapest tickets coming from Delta. >>>>>> >>> Midwest Airlines offers a nonstop route for $259 on various >>>>>> >>> dates. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> As for Monroe, the cheapest dates in April offer a fare of $244 >>>>>> >>> roundtrip, >>>>>> >>> also from Delta. There is no nonstop service from Orlando to >>>>>> >>> Monroe. >>>>>> >>> Prices for airline tickets change wildly, but there really >>>>>> >>> doesn't >>>>>> >>> seem >>>>>> >>> to >>>>>> >>> be a lot of difference between the two, and I wouldn't base my >>>>>> >>> decision >>>>>> >>> on >>>>>> >>> which training center to visit purely on who has the cheapest >>>>>> >>> flights. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>> >>> A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>> ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:24 PM >>>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>> Hi, guys. As luck would have it, I am looking at plane fares for >>>>>> >>>> both >>>>>> >>>> Louisiana and Colorado so that I can get a cheaper bid on a >>>>>> >>>> training >>>>>> >>>> center, possibly Colorado. How much is it to fly, say, from >>>>>> >>>> Orlando >>>>>> >>>> to Denver versus Orlando to Monroe, Louisiana? I'd like to know >>>>>> >>>> also >>>>>> >>>> what airlines you went with and so that I cancompare the prices. >>>>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>>>> >>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> >>>> info >>>>>> >>>> for >>>>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> >>> for >>>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> >> for >>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> > for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >>>>> inbox. >>>>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2759 - Release Date: 03/20/10 >> 07:33:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2763 - Release Date: 03/22/10 07:33:00 From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Mon Mar 22 17:22:05 2010 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] fed work In-Reply-To: <5eead.28e5d9f1.38d6b080@aol.com> Message-ID: <184889.2730.qm@web112405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi Ronza,   Thanks for all of your answers. You've been a big help.   Also, thanks for the names as far as mobility learning the Metro. I have a guy from DBVI (Virginia Department for the blind and visually-impaired) coming out on Thursday and we're going to do some mobility at the job site.   My new job is at OPM.   Thanks.   Mike --- On Sat, 3/20/10, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: From: AZNOR99 at aol.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] fed work To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Saturday, March 20, 2010, 7:13 PM Mike, Congratulations on your new job.  Where will you be working?  See  below for my answers. First, legal research. Does your agency give you an agencywide ID and  password for Westlaw and Lexis? Or do you have to sign up for either or both of  these services yourself and pay for it out of your own pocket? Each federal agency has a subscription to either WestLaw or Lexis; some  have both.  You will need to request a user name and password from your  agency or division librarian (or sometimes the rocurement officer can get  it).  I'd suggest you ask your first level supervisor how to get  one. Next, mobility. Specifically, do the federal buildings have signs  with braille denoting the room number, restrooms, etc.? Most federal buildings do have proper signage, however there are a few  that are out of date or lacking some in some areas.  However, this is very,  very rare. Third, documents. Is there braille on the vending machines? Braille  menus in the cafeteria? Agency manuals in braille or electronic form? Agency  manuals have to be in electronic form because of Section 508  Guidelines.  On occasion those manuals will be generated as PDFs, and once  in a while someone will forget to OCR them.  But this too is very, very  rare.  As for vending machines and menus, that'll depend on the specific  agency's policies.  For example, DHS does not have Braille on vending  machines.  I asked them to make a way for me to be able to purchase snacks,  so they requested overlays on the machines the manufacturer could provide one,  and they gave me a reader to read me the options so I could Braille out a list  that was posted on the side.  A matching list in large print was posted,  and it became part of the guy's job who filled the machine to check to make sure  no product was moved and to let me know if it was.  The cafeteria menus  were emailed to me, or a staff member reads them to me if they change day to  day. Finally, transportation. If any of you use Metro Access to get back and  forth from work, I would like to know what you've experienced. Specifically, how  reliable are they if you want an early morning 6:00 a.m. pick up? How about  picking up after work? How often do you get straight rides to work or from work  to home versus shared rides? (I'm especially interested in the experiences of  those of you who do a nine hour week, then four days of eight hours with the  fifth day being a day off. California calls it 9-8-80; I don't know what the  feds call it.) I don't use Metro Access so can't help you with that.  But DC has  perhaps the best system of public transportation in the country - I've literally  never had to go anywhere that wasn't on a bus or Metro Line.  The federal  government will likely give you a transit subsidity to cover your public  transportation costs, and trains and buses run nonstop.  You're talking about AWS or Alternative Work  Schedules.  That's all I can think of for now. Thanks. Let me know if you have  other questions.  Also, consider reaching out to Herald Wilson for some  mobility training and orientation to DC when you get here and Bridget Doherty  for help learning the Metro.  Ronza _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing  list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m_b_gilmore%40yahoo.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Mar 22 17:37:29 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:37:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Kathryn : As another alternative technique, you might try introducing yourself first, "Hi, I am Kathryn from American University." Hopefully, the other person will then emulate your introduction and give you his or her name and organization. As other have already said, though, using a white cane will help alleviate the issue of identifying with whom you are speaking and would solve other concerns as well. Noel nightingale -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Katy Carroll Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 1:37 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] advice Hi List! I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to you: Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. Not surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name and either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment or respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? I would appreciate any thoughts. -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Mar 22 17:40:39 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:40:39 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] fed work In-Reply-To: <493095.15663.qm@web112417.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Mike: Where will you be working? I work for the federal government, but in the hinterlands! Noel Nightingale -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Gilmore Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 3:30 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] fed work This is a question for those of you who work in D.C. for the feds. I realize it's a bit off topic and I apologize to the list; however, I couldn't think of any other forum to ask these questions.  I'll begin working for the feds a week from this Monday.   First, legal research. Does your agency give you an agencywide ID and password for Westlaw and Lexis? Or do you have to sign up for either or both of these services yourself and pay for it out of your own pocket?   Next, mobility. Specifically, do the federal buildings have signs with braille denoting the room number, restrooms, etc.?   Third, documents. Is there braille on the vending machines? Braille menus in the cafeteria? Agency manuals in braille or electronic form?   Finally, transportation. If any of you use Metro Access to get back and forth from work, I would like to know what you've experienced. Specifically, how reliable are they if you want an early morning 6:00 a.m. pick up? How about picking up after work? How often do you get straight rides to work or from work to home versus shared rides? (I'm especially interested in the experiences of those of you who do a nine hour week, then four days of eight hours with the fifth day being a day off. California calls it 9-8-80; I don't know what the feds call it.)   That's all I can think of for now. Thanks.   Mike     _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Mar 22 17:47:24 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:47:24 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Seeking roommate for national convention Message-ID: Blindlaw listers: I am seeking a roommate or roommates for the upcoming national convention in Dallas. Female roommates would probably be best! Please let me know if you are interested in sharing a room with me by replying to Noel.nightingale at ed.gov Thank you. Noel Nightingale From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Mon Mar 22 17:54:17 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:54:17 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] advice References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <425A291CCC56467D912AE2191CCE61F9@labarre> Katy, I am totally blind and have been so pretty much since the time I lost my sight. Therefore, I cannot directly relate with you other than to say my wife is in a similar situation. Sometimes, she carries her cane and sometimes not. I have noticed that she usually does take her cane when we are going somewhere new and plan on meeting new people. She finds it easier to explain that she is blind and has some residual vision than to deal with people thinking she is fully sighted and wondering why she isn't making the best eye contact or can't see the signs or can't read name tags or whatever. I think she also takes it because she wants to be able to use it in unfamiliar locations, especially at night and more especially to deal with stairs and other things she doesn't see too well. Ultimately, I guess it depends on which issue you'd rather have. I think it also depends on why it is you choose not to carry a cane. These are questions with which I cannot help you much. However, I can tell you that as an attorney, you are very likely going to be in situations that are pressure packed and move along quite quickly. In a courtroom, do you want a Judge or jury wondering why you aren't exactly acting like the other lawyers in the room? Would it be easier or harder to explain that you are legally blind and that is why you aren't able to read things or see objects or whatever? Or would it be easier to carry a cane alerting the judge and counsel that you are blind allowing you to explain later that you can see some. Now, I know you sent off your post not wondering whether you should carry a cane or not but rather asking the question of how you should explain yourself. I guess my first advice is to speak with others who are similarly situated. We have such blind lawyers on this list. Charlie Brown, our First Vice President, has quite a bit of residual vision yet has always carried a cane. I am sure there are others who don't. I wish you luck with this dilemma and I hope we can be helpful. Thanks, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37 PM Subject: [blindlaw] advice > Hi List! > > I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this > dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, > unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to > you: > > Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. > Not > surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name > and > either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate > networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane > with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment > or > respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people > who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has > anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? > > I would appreciate any thoughts. > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > American University > 631 521 3018 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 19:16:46 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:16:46 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado References: <678A359433A54644BFA4581B401E88EB@hometwxakonvzn><39874DDA77694C9FBAA82359BABBCBE9@StevePC><4383d01d1003220514w6a53bac7w8c5527f0363abae2@mail.gmail.com><2D888D2D79BA4E319737AB4194DB2B83@hometwxakonvzn> <530462F9BFF34F7C968C90C2EF7EB25D@StevePC> Message-ID: <3C21776A34034A338C68FA09760E69E4@hometwxakonvzn> Steve, with all do respect, are you a Lawyer? My friend asked a question concerning law. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > How do you propose to pay for this stuff? > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 10:19 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and > Colorado > > >> She is correct, I went to the same center she is refuring to, and they >> told >> me I wasn't college materal, and my best bet was flipping hamburgers. >> Now, >> If we can get back to her question, hopefuly, there is a lawyer on here >> who >> can answer her question as far as the rehabilitation act of 1973 is >> concerned. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:14 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and >> Colorado >> >> >>> The thing is that the Daytona center in Florida is not comprable. >>> I've heard more than one horror story about it, and anybody in Florida >>> who's on this list can attest to that. They don't use the cane as the >>> NFB suggests. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 3/21/10, Steve P. Deeley wrote: >>>> I have posted on this subject in the past and caught some real junk >>>> from >>>> those belonging to the NFB. I am not a FNFB basher, as a matter of >>>> fact, >>>> I >>>> agree with a great deal of their philosophies. I'll say this to you: >>>> You should get as much out of the center in your area that you can >>>> while >>>> attempting to get funding for your trip to the Colorado program. If it >>>> doesn't work out then ask for some assistance to get to Colorado. The >>>> The >>>> Budgets' of the various state Rehabilitation services are really in bad >>>> shape. There a lot of consumers who are attempting to be served and >>>> have >>>> educational and vocational needs. Someone in the NFB told me that a >>>> rehabilitation agency should have to pay for a gifted student to attend >>>> Harvard. That is absolutely absurd. There is only so much money to go >>>> around during these difficult times. >>>> Here is another point for you to consider: In Kentucky: a client has >>>> been >>>> fighting with the Kentucky Office for the Blind for well over two years >>>> in >>>> order to get a trip to one of the NFB Centers. This person has wasted >>>> over >>>> two years of his life fighting the agency. He did not attend the >>>> McDowell >>>> Center while fighting this out in various administrative processes and >>>> in >>>> court. This person could have been working his rehab plan while trying >>>> to >>>> get a trip to an NFB Center. This consumer chose not to follow that >>>> path. >>>> I think he made a huge mistake. He should have been attending the >>>> McDowell >>>> Center while fighting his battles with the Kentucky Office for the >>>> Blind. >>>> He will not get back those two or three years of his life. I don't >>>> know >>>> if >>>> the case has been resolved as of this posting. >>>> >>>> Steve Deeley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:28 AM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:59 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> You have all made good points. I do have a question: how can I best >>>>>> get the state agency to pay for Colorado and not give me hell about >>>>>> the money? I'm seriously trying to find where it says in Section 504 >>>>>> of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, but it says stuff about programs >>>>>> that receive federal funding. NFB centers to my knowledge don't get >>>>>> that, so I don't know how NFB centers apply. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/20/10, Elizabeth wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well, with all do respect, I would not make a decision based solely >>>>>>> upon >>>>>>> hearing about one bad experience any more than I would on the cost >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> airline ticket. Just because someone else had a bad experience does >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> necessarily mean that you will experience the same. Everyone goes to >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> training center at different stages of accepting their blindness and >>>>>>> possibly their identity as simply just another person in this world >>>>>>> who >>>>>>> happens to be blind. So I think maturity can also play a role in how >>>>>>> much >>>>>>> you get out of a training center as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And as far as learning specific skills like learning how to ride a >>>>>>> subway, I >>>>>>> do not think it really matters which center you choose because I >>>>>>> think >>>>>>> all >>>>>>> three would prepare you to perform this skill. I know of several >>>>>>> graduates >>>>>>> from the Louisiana Center who ride the subway just fine. The key >>>>>>> ingredient >>>>>>> is confidence in thinking that you can perform a skill no matter >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> kind >>>>>>> of situation you may encounter along the way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:40:28 -0400 >>>>>>>> From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com >>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, I have. The thing that bothers me is that one girl didn't like >>>>>>>> Louisiana as much as the other two people I've spoken to. Then, I >>>>>>>> haven't spoken to anybody in Colorado student wise. But I spoke >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> the director, so she says it's nice over there. She even gave me a >>>>>>>> good reason to consider it. But I am having to decide quick because >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> want to leave in May, and the state agency doesn't want to paqy in >>>>>>>> full. Now, of course, we're not sure they're willing to pay at all. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>>>> > Honestly, you should probably consider lots of things way before >>>>>>>> > plane >>>>>>>> > fares. The three training centers are not exact copies of each >>>>>>>> > other. >>>>>>>> > Have >>>>>>>> > you spoken with the directors or students of each center to gauge >>>>>>>> > opinions? >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>>>> > A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> > From: "Beth" >>>>>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:28 PM >>>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >> Then what must I decide or what must my decision be based on? >>>>>>>> >> Now >>>>>>>> >> that I know there's no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe, >>>>>>>> >> I've >>>>>>>> >> got something in my favor, but what should the decision be based >>>>>>>> >> upon? >>>>>>>> >> Beth >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>>>> >>> Beth, >>>>>>>> >>> I did a quick check at dates in April, and the cheapest to >>>>>>>> >>> Denver >>>>>>>> >>> looks >>>>>>>> >>> to >>>>>>>> >>> be around $211 with the cheapest tickets coming from Delta. >>>>>>>> >>> Midwest Airlines offers a nonstop route for $259 on various >>>>>>>> >>> dates. >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> As for Monroe, the cheapest dates in April offer a fare of $244 >>>>>>>> >>> roundtrip, >>>>>>>> >>> also from Delta. There is no nonstop service from Orlando to >>>>>>>> >>> Monroe. >>>>>>>> >>> Prices for airline tickets change wildly, but there really >>>>>>>> >>> doesn't >>>>>>>> >>> seem >>>>>>>> >>> to >>>>>>>> >>> be a lot of difference between the two, and I wouldn't base my >>>>>>>> >>> decision >>>>>>>> >>> on >>>>>>>> >>> which training center to visit purely on who has the cheapest >>>>>>>> >>> flights. >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>>>> >>> A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> >>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>> ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:24 PM >>>>>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>>> Hi, guys. As luck would have it, I am looking at plane fares >>>>>>>> >>>> for >>>>>>>> >>>> both >>>>>>>> >>>> Louisiana and Colorado so that I can get a cheaper bid on a >>>>>>>> >>>> training >>>>>>>> >>>> center, possibly Colorado. How much is it to fly, say, from >>>>>>>> >>>> Orlando >>>>>>>> >>>> to Denver versus Orlando to Monroe, Louisiana? I'd like to >>>>>>>> >>>> know >>>>>>>> >>>> also >>>>>>>> >>>> what airlines you went with and so that I cancompare the >>>>>>>> >>>> prices. >>>>>>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>> >>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> >>>> info >>>>>>>> >>>> for >>>>>>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> >>> info >>>>>>>> >>> for >>>>>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> >> info >>>>>>>> >> for >>>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> > for >>>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >>>>>>> inbox. >>>>>>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2759 - Release Date: >>>> 03/20/10 >>>> 07:33:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2763 - Release Date: 03/22/10 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 19:24:33 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:24:33 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado Message-ID: <4ba7c3aa.13dbf10a.1935.5bcf@mx.google.com> I will probably talk with the director, and maybe even solicit money from charity if I have to. Any ideas from anyone around the NFB net community would be nice. Beth From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 23 01:45:48 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:45:48 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado In-Reply-To: <4ba7c3aa.13dbf10a.1935.5bcf@mx.google.com> References: <4ba7c3aa.13dbf10a.1935.5bcf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <3C9FE2264BA54B2A8298BA9503E9116C@spike> Has an NFB state chapter or the national subsidized or sponsored people to attend the NFB centers in cases where VR agencies will not pay for the services or a client for whatever reason might be ineligible? Perhaps this is an issue that NFB needs to look at as a means of providing services to as many clients as possible. I for one would would consider this a worthy expenditure of funds. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >I will probably talk with the director, and maybe even solicit money from >charity if I have to. Any ideas from anyone around the NFB net community >would be nice. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 03:47:08 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:47:08 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] advice References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> <425A291CCC56467D912AE2191CCE61F9@labarre> Message-ID: Scott, How do you deal with a new Judge? Do you walk into the courtroom, and explaine to the judge you're blind, and need this or that? How do you do it? This sighted judge has never delbt with a blind lawyer before. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice Katy, I am totally blind and have been so pretty much since the time I lost my sight. Therefore, I cannot directly relate with you other than to say my wife is in a similar situation. Sometimes, she carries her cane and sometimes not. I have noticed that she usually does take her cane when we are going somewhere new and plan on meeting new people. She finds it easier to explain that she is blind and has some residual vision than to deal with people thinking she is fully sighted and wondering why she isn't making the best eye contact or can't see the signs or can't read name tags or whatever. I think she also takes it because she wants to be able to use it in unfamiliar locations, especially at night and more especially to deal with stairs and other things she doesn't see too well. Ultimately, I guess it depends on which issue you'd rather have. I think it also depends on why it is you choose not to carry a cane. These are questions with which I cannot help you much. However, I can tell you that as an attorney, you are very likely going to be in situations that are pressure packed and move along quite quickly. In a courtroom, do you want a Judge or jury wondering why you aren't exactly acting like the other lawyers in the room? Would it be easier or harder to explain that you are legally blind and that is why you aren't able to read things or see objects or whatever? Or would it be easier to carry a cane alerting the judge and counsel that you are blind allowing you to explain later that you can see some. Now, I know you sent off your post not wondering whether you should carry a cane or not but rather asking the question of how you should explain yourself. I guess my first advice is to speak with others who are similarly situated. We have such blind lawyers on this list. Charlie Brown, our First Vice President, has quite a bit of residual vision yet has always carried a cane. I am sure there are others who don't. I wish you luck with this dilemma and I hope we can be helpful. Thanks, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37 PM Subject: [blindlaw] advice > Hi List! > > I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this > dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, > unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to > you: > > Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. > Not > surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name > and > either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate > networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane > with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment > or > respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people > who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has > anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? > > I would appreciate any thoughts. > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > American University > 631 521 3018 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From womankind at earthlink.net Tue Mar 23 06:30:16 2010 From: womankind at earthlink.net (Stephanie Ortoleva) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 02:30:16 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] laws addressing issues concerning persons who are blind In-Reply-To: <3C9FE2264BA54B2A8298BA9503E9116C@spike> References: <4ba7c3aa.13dbf10a.1935.5bcf@mx.google.com> <3C9FE2264BA54B2A8298BA9503E9116C@spike> Message-ID: Good evening, Has anyone seen a compilation listing laws addressing issues concerning persons who are blind? This would include white cane laws, laws regarding seeing eye dogs, copyright laws permitting "talking books", income tax benefits, and anything else. Thank you. Stephanie From womankind at earthlink.net Tue Mar 23 08:14:57 2010 From: womankind at earthlink.net (Stephanie Ortoleva) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 04:14:57 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] aavia@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not to ask about another group list here, but is the aavia at googlegroups.com list still alive as I have not seen posts for a very long time. thanks. Stephanie From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 10:14:33 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:14:33 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado References: <4ba7c3aa.13dbf10a.1935.5bcf@mx.google.com> <3C9FE2264BA54B2A8298BA9503E9116C@spike> Message-ID: Beth, I really think you should go ahead and get on to the ccb list. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > Has an NFB state chapter or the national subsidized or sponsored people to > attend the NFB centers in cases where VR agencies will not pay for the > services or a client for whatever reason might be ineligible? Perhaps this > is an issue that NFB needs to look at as a means of providing services to > as many clients as possible. I for one would would consider this a worthy > expenditure of funds. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 12:24 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and > Colorado > > >>I will probably talk with the director, and maybe even solicit money from >>charity if I have to. Any ideas from anyone around the NFB net community >>would be nice. >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Tue Mar 23 10:46:02 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:46:02 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado In-Reply-To: <3C21776A34034A338C68FA09760E69E4@hometwxakonvzn> References: <678A359433A54644BFA4581B401E88EB@hometwxakonvzn> <39874DDA77694C9FBAA82359BABBCBE9@StevePC> <4383d01d1003220514w6a53bac7w8c5527f0363abae2@mail.gmail.com> <2D888D2D79BA4E319737AB4194DB2B83@hometwxakonvzn> <530462F9BFF34F7C968C90C2EF7EB25D@StevePC> <3C21776A34034A338C68FA09760E69E4@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: No, I just want to know your opinion on paying for this sort of thing. This is sort of paying for healthcare, don't you think? The states are broke and running deficits. How long have you worked in the field of rehabilitation?] Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado > Steve, with all do respect, are you a Lawyer? My friend asked a question > concerning law. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 12:44 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and > Colorado > > >> How do you propose to pay for this stuff? >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 10:19 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and >> Colorado >> >> >>> She is correct, I went to the same center she is refuring to, and they >>> told >>> me I wasn't college materal, and my best bet was flipping hamburgers. >>> Now, >>> If we can get back to her question, hopefuly, there is a lawyer on here >>> who >>> can answer her question as far as the rehabilitation act of 1973 is >>> concerned. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:14 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and >>> Colorado >>> >>> >>>> The thing is that the Daytona center in Florida is not comprable. >>>> I've heard more than one horror story about it, and anybody in Florida >>>> who's on this list can attest to that. They don't use the cane as the >>>> NFB suggests. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 3/21/10, Steve P. Deeley wrote: >>>>> I have posted on this subject in the past and caught some real junk >>>>> from >>>>> those belonging to the NFB. I am not a FNFB basher, as a matter of >>>>> fact, >>>>> I >>>>> agree with a great deal of their philosophies. I'll say this to you: >>>>> You should get as much out of the center in your area that you can >>>>> while >>>>> attempting to get funding for your trip to the Colorado program. If >>>>> it >>>>> doesn't work out then ask for some assistance to get to Colorado. The >>>>> The >>>>> Budgets' of the various state Rehabilitation services are really in >>>>> bad >>>>> shape. There a lot of consumers who are attempting to be served and >>>>> have >>>>> educational and vocational needs. Someone in the NFB told me that a >>>>> rehabilitation agency should have to pay for a gifted student to >>>>> attend >>>>> Harvard. That is absolutely absurd. There is only so much money to >>>>> go >>>>> around during these difficult times. >>>>> Here is another point for you to consider: In Kentucky: a client has >>>>> been >>>>> fighting with the Kentucky Office for the Blind for well over two >>>>> years >>>>> in >>>>> order to get a trip to one of the NFB Centers. This person has wasted >>>>> over >>>>> two years of his life fighting the agency. He did not attend the >>>>> McDowell >>>>> Center while fighting this out in various administrative processes and >>>>> in >>>>> court. This person could have been working his rehab plan while >>>>> trying >>>>> to >>>>> get a trip to an NFB Center. This consumer chose not to follow that >>>>> path. >>>>> I think he made a huge mistake. He should have been attending the >>>>> McDowell >>>>> Center while fighting his battles with the Kentucky Office for the >>>>> Blind. >>>>> He will not get back those two or three years of his life. I don't >>>>> know >>>>> if >>>>> the case has been resolved as of this posting. >>>>> >>>>> Steve Deeley >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "RJ Sandefur" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:28 AM >>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and >>>>> Colorado >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:59 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> You have all made good points. I do have a question: how can I best >>>>>>> get the state agency to pay for Colorado and not give me hell about >>>>>>> the money? I'm seriously trying to find where it says in Section >>>>>>> 504 >>>>>>> of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, but it says stuff about programs >>>>>>> that receive federal funding. NFB centers to my knowledge don't get >>>>>>> that, so I don't know how NFB centers apply. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/20/10, Elizabeth wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well, with all do respect, I would not make a decision based solely >>>>>>>> upon >>>>>>>> hearing about one bad experience any more than I would on the cost >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> airline ticket. Just because someone else had a bad experience does >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> necessarily mean that you will experience the same. Everyone goes >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> training center at different stages of accepting their blindness >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> possibly their identity as simply just another person in this world >>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>> happens to be blind. So I think maturity can also play a role in >>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>> much >>>>>>>> you get out of a training center as well. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And as far as learning specific skills like learning how to ride a >>>>>>>> subway, I >>>>>>>> do not think it really matters which center you choose because I >>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>> three would prepare you to perform this skill. I know of several >>>>>>>> graduates >>>>>>>> from the Louisiana Center who ride the subway just fine. The key >>>>>>>> ingredient >>>>>>>> is confidence in thinking that you can perform a skill no matter >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>> kind >>>>>>>> of situation you may encounter along the way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:40:28 -0400 >>>>>>>>> From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com >>>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, I have. The thing that bothers me is that one girl didn't >>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>> Louisiana as much as the other two people I've spoken to. Then, I >>>>>>>>> haven't spoken to anybody in Colorado student wise. But I spoke >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> the director, so she says it's nice over there. She even gave me a >>>>>>>>> good reason to consider it. But I am having to decide quick >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> want to leave in May, and the state agency doesn't want to paqy in >>>>>>>>> full. Now, of course, we're not sure they're willing to pay at >>>>>>>>> all. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>>>>> > Honestly, you should probably consider lots of things way before >>>>>>>>> > plane >>>>>>>>> > fares. The three training centers are not exact copies of each >>>>>>>>> > other. >>>>>>>>> > Have >>>>>>>>> > you spoken with the directors or students of each center to >>>>>>>>> > gauge >>>>>>>>> > opinions? >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>>>>> > A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> > From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:28 PM >>>>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >> Then what must I decide or what must my decision be based on? >>>>>>>>> >> Now >>>>>>>>> >> that I know there's no nonstop service from Orlando to Monroe, >>>>>>>>> >> I've >>>>>>>>> >> got something in my favor, but what should the decision be >>>>>>>>> >> based >>>>>>>>> >> upon? >>>>>>>>> >> Beth >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> >> On 3/20/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>> Beth, >>>>>>>>> >>> I did a quick check at dates in April, and the cheapest to >>>>>>>>> >>> Denver >>>>>>>>> >>> looks >>>>>>>>> >>> to >>>>>>>>> >>> be around $211 with the cheapest tickets coming from Delta. >>>>>>>>> >>> Midwest Airlines offers a nonstop route for $259 on various >>>>>>>>> >>> dates. >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> As for Monroe, the cheapest dates in April offer a fare of >>>>>>>>> >>> $244 >>>>>>>>> >>> roundtrip, >>>>>>>>> >>> also from Delta. There is no nonstop service from Orlando to >>>>>>>>> >>> Monroe. >>>>>>>>> >>> Prices for airline tickets change wildly, but there really >>>>>>>>> >>> doesn't >>>>>>>>> >>> seem >>>>>>>>> >>> to >>>>>>>>> >>> be a lot of difference between the two, and I wouldn't base my >>>>>>>>> >>> decision >>>>>>>>> >>> on >>>>>>>>> >>> which training center to visit purely on who has the cheapest >>>>>>>>> >>> flights. >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>>>>>> >>> A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor >>>>>>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> >>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>> ; "NFB of Florida Listserv" >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:24 PM >>>>>>>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] plane fares for Louisiana and Colorado >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> Hi, guys. As luck would have it, I am looking at plane fares >>>>>>>>> >>>> for >>>>>>>>> >>>> both >>>>>>>>> >>>> Louisiana and Colorado so that I can get a cheaper bid on a >>>>>>>>> >>>> training >>>>>>>>> >>>> center, possibly Colorado. How much is it to fly, say, from >>>>>>>>> >>>> Orlando >>>>>>>>> >>>> to Denver versus Orlando to Monroe, Louisiana? I'd like to >>>>>>>>> >>>> know >>>>>>>>> >>>> also >>>>>>>>> >>>> what airlines you went with and so that I cancompare the >>>>>>>>> >>>> prices. >>>>>>>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>>> >>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> >>>> info >>>>>>>>> >>>> for >>>>>>>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> >>> info >>>>>>>>> >>> for >>>>>>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> >> info >>>>>>>>> >> for >>>>>>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> > info >>>>>>>>> > for >>>>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >>>>>>>> inbox. >>>>>>>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2759 - Release Date: >>>>> 03/20/10 >>>>> 07:33:00 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2763 - Release Date: 03/22/10 >> 07:33:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2763 - Release Date: 03/22/10 07:33:00 From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Mar 23 19:03:55 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:03:55 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Securities & Exchange Commission Job Opportunities Message-ID: ________________________________ From: Banjo, Akinyemi - ODEP [mailto:banjo.akinyemi at dol.gov] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 10:40 AM Subject: SEC Job Opportunities Please disseminate widely. Dear FDWC Colleagues, The U.S. Security and Exchange Commission (SEC) is doing a ton of hiring and we would like to broadcast these opportunities within the disability community. While some of the openings may be nearing the closing date, there may be people who may still be able to take advantage of them. Questions regarding this announcement should be directed to: Laura Stomski email: StomskiL at sec.gov Thanks, Akinyemi Banjo Federal Disability Workforce Consortium (FDWC) ________________________________ Closing dates range from 3/26 to 4/9. Note: The SEC has retained Futurestep, a Korn/Ferry Company, to provide strategic talent acquisition solutions to help the agency address its continuing talent needs. You will see below that a number of the job applications can be found on the SEC Recruitment Center in addition to USAJobs. For more information about job opportunities at the SEC, please visit www.sec.gov/jobs or Twitter at www.Twitter.com/SEC_Jobs. Industry Professionals New York - Senior Specialized Examiner positions (3) (Closing 4/4) http://sec.futurestep.com/Opportunities/SEC69234 DC/New York - Asset Management Specialists (Asset Management Unit) (Closing 4/4) http://sec.futurestep.com/Opportunities/SEC68983 There are also a number of Senior Specialized Examiner positions open until 3/25 that were announced in my last email. Areas of expertise sought include hedge funds, derivatives, clearing agencies, information security, risk management, options, and valuation. These positions are in DC and in a number of regional offices. Please review postings on the SEC Recruitment Center. Attorneys DC - Staff Attorney position in the Office of Chief Counsel, Division of Enforcement (Closing 3/31) http://tinyurl.com/yhna2yl Boston - Trial Attorney positions (2) (Closing 4/2) http://tinyurl.com/yf87zga 5:32 PM Mar 17th Denver - Supervisory Trial Attorney position (Closing 4/7) http://tinyurl.com/ycemdxl New York - Enforcement Staff Attorney positions (7) (Closing 3/31) http://tinyurl.com/yfervyz New York - Trial Attorney position (Closing 4/5) http://tinyurl.com/yzd25me Philadelphia - Trial Attorney position (Closing 3/26) http://tinyurl.com/y8vpvl8 Philadelphia - Enforcement Staff Attorney positions (3) (Closing 4/1) http://tinyurl.com/yl6k3ze San Francisco - Enforcement Staff Attorney positions (3) (Closing 4/1) http://tinyurl.com/yka7rtl Accountants and Examiners DC - Staff Accountant position in the Office of the Chief Accountant (International Group) (Closing 4/2) http://tinyurl.com/yeztpjy DC/VA - Accountant position in the Office of Information Technology (Budget and Acquisitions) (Closing 3/29) http://tinyurl.com/ydp9lgm Atlanta - Securities Compliance Examiner positions (2) (Closing 4/5) http://tinyurl.com/ydgmrws Denver - Staff Accountant positions (a few) (Closing 3/26) http://tinyurl.com/y8ev3hy New York - Supervisory Securities Compliance Examiner position (Closing 4/9) http://tinyurl.com/yda92jl New York - Supervisory Staff Accountant position (Closing 4/9) http://tinyurl.com/yckgaqm New York - Staff Accountant position (Closing 3/30) http://tinyurl.com/yejholb New York - Staff Accountant position (Closing 3/26) http://tinyurl.com/y8luy3b New York - Securities Compliance Examiner positions (2) (Closing 3/31) http://tinyurl.com/yceyccn New York - Securities Compliance Examiner positions (12) (Closing 3/31) http://tinyurl.com/yezdz29 Salt Lake City - Staff Accountant position (Closing 4/6) http://tinyurl.com/yc7d45y San Francisco - Staff Accountant positions (3) (Closing 4/1) http://tinyurl.com/yeg3rew Paralegals The SEC is offering a term paralegal program at the SK-7 level. It is a 14 month term position that may be extended up to 4 years. This program may be of interest to students graduating from college and thinking of law school in the next few years. Term Paralegal positions-DC, Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Denver, Ft. Worth, Los Angeles, Miami, New York, Philadelphia, and San Francisco (Closing 4/2) http://tinyurl.com/yh5l2q3 Information Technology IT Specialist (Litigation Support) in the Division of Enforcement in DC (Closing 4/2) http://tinyurl.com/ybm7jwf Information Technology (Information Security) positions in the Division of Trading and Markets (Closing 4/29) http://tinyurl.com/y9ogvfb Other Legal Instruments Examiner in the Office of Financial Management (Closing 3/31) http://tinyurl.com/yckb2q3 Secretary position in the Office of Chief Counsel (Enforcement) (Closing 3/31) http://tinyurl.com/yb6hfbe HR Specialist (Compensation) in DC (Closing 3/30) http://tinyurl.com/yd2l7la Lead HR Specialist (Benefits) in DC (Closing 3/30) http://tinyurl.com/yckqjaj From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Mar 23 19:04:49 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:04:49 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:51 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice ________________________________ From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:26 PM To: nawl at nawl.org; ncai at ncai.org; nedy at wyjlaw.com; newmedia at ja.org; Neysas at dnfsb.gov; Maurer, Patricia; nijc at aol.com; nlove at opd.state.md.us; nmcconnell at jackscamp.com; noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; nwpatton at law.stanford.edu; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA SUPERVISORY ASSISTANTUNITED STATES ATTORNEY SACREMENTO, CALIFORNIA MARCH 22, 2010 10-EDCA-12A This position will be open until filled; however, applications received by Friday, April 9, 2010, will be given first consideration. Date posted: 03-22-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTICT OF OKLAHOMA 10-NDOK-01 This position is open umtil filled. Date posted: 03-22-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS EVALUATION AND REVIEW STAFF ATTORNEY ADVISOR, GS-0905-15 VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NO: 10-EOUSA-008 Application materials must be received by 11:59pm (Eastern Standard Time) on the closing date. Date posted: 03-22-2010 * DEPUTY CHIEF FRAUD SECTION CRIMINAL DIVISION U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WASHINGTON, DC These vacancies are open until filled. Date posted: 03-19-2010 * EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY/ GS-12 TO GS-14 CIVIL DIVISION, TORTS BRANCH, OFFICE OF CONSTITUTIONAL AND SPECIALIZED TORTS WASHINGTON DC Applications must be received not later than April 5th, 2010. Date posted: 03-19-2010 * ACTING ASSOCIATE GENERAL COUNSEL (CHAPTER 11), GS-905-15 EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, DC VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 10-12-14003 Applications must be received no later than March 26, 2010. Date posted: 03-19-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF MONTANA GREAT FALLS OFFICE VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT # 10-MT-02 Applications must be received by 4:30 p.m. Mountain Standard Time on the closing date, which is April 9, 2010. Date posted: 03-18-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF MONTANA GREAT FALLS OFFICE VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT # 10-MT-01 Applications must be received by 4:30 p.m. Mountain Standard Time on the closing date, which is April 9, 2010. Date posted: 03-18-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C. (1) CHIEF, CRIMINAL ENFORCEMENT UNIT, GS-905-15 ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 10-12-14001 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of April 9, 2010. Date posted: 03-18-2010 * US. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION OFFICE OF EMPLOYMENT COUNSEL ASSISTANT EMPLOYMENT COUNSEL, GS-905-15 ANNOUNCEMENT #10-ATT-012 CLOSES 4/06/10 Applications must be received by the closing date. Date posted: 03-18-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE PROGRAM -- GREENBELT, MARYLAND ASSISTANT UNITED STATES TRUSTEE VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT GB-0041 This position will be open until April 16, 2010. Date posted: 03-18-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS GENERAL COUNSELS OFFICE ATTORNEY ADVISOR, GS-0905-15 VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NO: 10-EOUSA-009 CLOSES 04/01/2010 Applications must be received by the closing date. Date posted: 03-18-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, COORDINATION AND REVIEW SECTION DEPUTY CHIEF, GS-905-15 ANNOUNCEMENT #10-ATT-010 CLOSES 4/09/10 Applications must be received by the closing date. Date posted: 03-17-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, DISABILITY RIGHTS SECTION DEPUTY CHIEF, GS-905-15 ANNOUNCEMENT #10-ATT-011 CLOSES 4/02/10 Applications must be received by the closing date. Date posted: 03-17-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY/ATTORNEY ADVISOR, GS-15 ANNOUNCEMENT: OPR ATY 10-001 Applications must be received by March 22, 2010. Date posted: 03-17-2010 * CHIEF, ES-905ASSET FORFEITURE AND MONEY LAUNDERING SECTION CRIMINAL DIVISION U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICEWASHINGTON, DC ANNOUNCEMENT #: 10-CRM-SES-04 All applications including mailed applications must be received by 11:59 est on the closing date: april 12, 2010. Date posted: 03-16-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA HONORABLE JOYCE WHITE VANCE ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 10-NDAL-09 All applications/resumes should be postmarked 03/29/2010. Date posted: 03-16-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA 10-SDCA-03 Application materials must be postmarked by the deadline date of April 2, 2010. Date posted: 03-15-2010 * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY SACREMENTO, CALIFORNIA MARCH 15, 2010 10-EDCA-11A Applications should be postmarked no later than Friday, March 26, 2010. Date posted: 03-15-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C. (1) EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEY, ASSOCIATE GENERAL COUNSEL (CHAPTER 11), GS-905-15 ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 10-11-14001 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of March 29, 2010. Date posted: 03-12-2010 * EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS / GS-12 to GS-15 CIVIL DIVISION, COMMERCIAL LITIGATION BRANCH, FRAUD SECTION WASHINGTON, DC Applications should be submitted as early as possible but, in any event, not later than May 1, 2010. Date posted: 03-12-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C. (1) EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEY, ASSOCIATE GENERAL COUNSEL (CHAPTER 11), GS-905-15 ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 10-11-14001 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of March 29, 2010. Date posted: 03-12-2010 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING INTERMITTENT LEGAL ADVISOR IN TAIWAN Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. Date posted: 03-12-2010 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (CRIMINAL) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF MARYLAND NORTHERN (BALTIMORE) AND SOUTHERN (GREENBELT) DIVISIONS ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 10-MD-06 Any interested applicant should submit a cover letter, resume, and law school transcript via e-mail no later than April 5, 2010. Date posted: 03-11-2010 * SPECIAL ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA - SAN JOSE BRANCH 10-NDCA-02-E Applications must be postmarked by March 25, 2010. Date posted: 03-10-2010 The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From kc2992a at student.american.edu Tue Mar 23 20:41:22 2010 From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:41:22 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com> <425A291CCC56467D912AE2191CCE61F9@labarre> Message-ID: <2fdbeb321003231341u58153abdi6cee832f7494d1ab@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I really appreciate all of your responses to my question. I am one of those people who uses a cane only sometimes, because I don't have to. Therefore, I have come into situation when I have had my cane with me and people have commented that I don't act like I am blind, so why do I need to carry a cane; and also situations in which I didn't have my cane and was unable to explain that there was something I couldn't see and why. Scott, I appreciate your foresight about what life will be like working in a courtroom. I echo the question about how you approach a new judge. Best, Kate On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:47 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Scott, How do you deal with a new Judge? Do you walk into the courtroom, > and explaine to the judge you're blind, and need this or that? How do you do > it? This sighted judge has never delbt with a blind lawyer before. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:54 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > > Katy, I am totally blind and have been so pretty much since the time I lost > my sight. Therefore, I cannot directly relate with you other than to say > my > wife is in a similar situation. Sometimes, she carries her cane and > sometimes not. I have noticed that she usually does take her cane when we > are going somewhere new and plan on meeting new people. She finds it > easier > to explain that she is blind and has some residual vision than to deal with > people thinking she is fully sighted and wondering why she isn't making the > best eye contact or can't see the signs or can't read name tags or > whatever. > I think she also takes it because she wants to be able to use it in > unfamiliar locations, especially at night and more especially to deal with > stairs and other things she doesn't see too well. > > Ultimately, I guess it depends on which issue you'd rather have. I think > it > also depends on why it is you choose not to carry a cane. These are > questions with which I cannot help you much. > > However, I can tell you that as an attorney, you are very likely going to > be > in situations that are pressure packed and move along quite quickly. In a > courtroom, do you want a Judge or jury wondering why you aren't exactly > acting like the other lawyers in the room? Would it be easier or harder to > explain that you are legally blind and that is why you aren't able to > read > things or see objects or whatever? Or would it be easier to carry a cane > alerting the judge and counsel that you are blind allowing you to explain > later that you can see some. > > Now, I know you sent off your post not wondering whether you should carry a > cane or not but rather asking the question of how you should explain > yourself. I guess my first advice is to speak with others who are > similarly situated. We have such blind lawyers on this list. Charlie > Brown, our First Vice President, has quite a bit of residual vision yet > has > always carried a cane. I am sure there are others who don't. > > I wish you luck with this dilemma and I hope we can be helpful. > Thanks, > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any > attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" < > kc2992a at student.american.edu> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] advice > > > Hi List! >> >> I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this >> dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, >> unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to >> you: >> >> Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. >> Not >> surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name >> and >> either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate >> networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane >> with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment >> or >> respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people >> who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has >> anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? >> >> I would appreciate any thoughts. >> >> -- >> Kathryn CARROLL >> American University >> 631 521 3018 >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 From keith-vick at msn.com Tue Mar 23 22:34:57 2010 From: keith-vick at msn.com (K V) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:34:57 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <2fdbeb321003231341u58153abdi6cee832f7494d1ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com>, <425A291CCC56467D912AE2191CCE61F9@labarre>, , <2fdbeb321003231341u58153abdi6cee832f7494d1ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Kate, I am in a similar situation. My vision is progressively getting worse by field of vision. Also, my central vision has faded such that more light is needed for me to see. I began to use a cane a few years ago and various people responded with everything from disbelief to skepticism to, quite frankly, hostility. This has been very difficult to overcome. My cane trainer suggested that I use the cane all the time. In retrospect he may have been sensitive to how people perceive the partial use of a cane. At first I tried to use the cane all the time but it felt silly when I was walking in a familiar environment with minimal traffic and nice flat sidewalks in bright sunlight. So, I started to selectively use the cane. Regarding court room appearances, I have not yet actually practiced in court room. I am taking the bar this July. However, I did have a moot court class which was presided over by Judge Sullivan in the 2nd Circuit. The classes met in the Moynihan courtroom in Manhattan. It was a privilege. Anyways, I emailed the judge to let him know that I did have vision problems. He was very courteous. By the end of the semester I think I ran into a chair and stumbled over taped down wires - but otherwise it was uneventful. The witness chair steps were a pain though. I never did use a cane in the courtroom. For my final trial I showed up about an hour early and basically walked the court room to memorize where everything was. I walked from the lecturn to the witness stand to my table a few times. The trial went fine without any tripping or stumbling. I do think the judge was concerned by my use of extra extra large fonts in my notes as the jury could have read the notes if I held them up. One thing I was thinking of doing was creating a boilerplate letter that included my field of vision plot and sharing it with the judge and opposing counsel prior to any court appearances. I am assuming the opposing counsel wouldn't take advantage of the information and move boxes or chairs around in the courtroom during arguments or witness examinations. I suspect a judge would say something if she detected that kind of tactic. I am curious what suggestions others have. If you want to discuss this more offline, please feel free to contact me. Warmest regards, Keith Vick > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:41:22 -0400 > From: kc2992a at student.american.edu > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > Hi all, > > I really appreciate all of your responses to my question. I am one of those > people who uses a cane only sometimes, because I don't have to. Therefore, I > have come into situation when I have had my cane with me and people have > commented that I don't act like I am blind, so why do I need to carry a > cane; and also situations in which I didn't have my cane and was unable to > explain that there was something I couldn't see and why. > > Scott, I appreciate your foresight about what life will be like working in a > courtroom. I echo the question about how you approach a new judge. > > Best, > Kate > > On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:47 PM, RJ Sandefur > wrote: > > > Scott, How do you deal with a new Judge? Do you walk into the courtroom, > > and explaine to the judge you're blind, and need this or that? How do you do > > it? This sighted judge has never delbt with a blind lawyer before. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > > > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:54 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > > > > > Katy, I am totally blind and have been so pretty much since the time I lost > > my sight. Therefore, I cannot directly relate with you other than to say > > my > > wife is in a similar situation. Sometimes, she carries her cane and > > sometimes not. I have noticed that she usually does take her cane when we > > are going somewhere new and plan on meeting new people. She finds it > > easier > > to explain that she is blind and has some residual vision than to deal with > > people thinking she is fully sighted and wondering why she isn't making the > > best eye contact or can't see the signs or can't read name tags or > > whatever. > > I think she also takes it because she wants to be able to use it in > > unfamiliar locations, especially at night and more especially to deal with > > stairs and other things she doesn't see too well. > > > > Ultimately, I guess it depends on which issue you'd rather have. I think > > it > > also depends on why it is you choose not to carry a cane. These are > > questions with which I cannot help you much. > > > > However, I can tell you that as an attorney, you are very likely going to > > be > > in situations that are pressure packed and move along quite quickly. In a > > courtroom, do you want a Judge or jury wondering why you aren't exactly > > acting like the other lawyers in the room? Would it be easier or harder to > > explain that you are legally blind and that is why you aren't able to > > read > > things or see objects or whatever? Or would it be easier to carry a cane > > alerting the judge and counsel that you are blind allowing you to explain > > later that you can see some. > > > > Now, I know you sent off your post not wondering whether you should carry a > > cane or not but rather asking the question of how you should explain > > yourself. I guess my first advice is to speak with others who are > > similarly situated. We have such blind lawyers on this list. Charlie > > Brown, our First Vice President, has quite a bit of residual vision yet > > has > > always carried a cane. I am sure there are others who don't. > > > > I wish you luck with this dilemma and I hope we can be helpful. > > Thanks, > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > privileged > > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any > > attachments > > are covered by the Electronic > > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" < > > kc2992a at student.american.edu> > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37 PM > > Subject: [blindlaw] advice > > > > > > Hi List! > >> > >> I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this > >> dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, > >> unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to > >> you: > >> > >> Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. > >> Not > >> surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name > >> and > >> either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate > >> networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane > >> with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment > >> or > >> respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people > >> who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has > >> anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? > >> > >> I would appreciate any thoughts. > >> > >> -- > >> Kathryn CARROLL > >> American University > >> 631 521 3018 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu > > > > > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > American University > 631 521 3018 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keith-vick%40msn.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 24 01:28:52 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:28:52 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <2fdbeb321003231341u58153abdi6cee832f7494d1ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com><425A291CCC56467D912AE2191CCE61F9@labarre> <2fdbeb321003231341u58153abdi6cee832f7494d1ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It is much easier to carry the cane and explain that there are degrees of blindness which is something that many sighted people don't think about. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice Hi all, I really appreciate all of your responses to my question. I am one of those people who uses a cane only sometimes, because I don't have to. Therefore, I have come into situation when I have had my cane with me and people have commented that I don't act like I am blind, so why do I need to carry a cane; and also situations in which I didn't have my cane and was unable to explain that there was something I couldn't see and why. Scott, I appreciate your foresight about what life will be like working in a courtroom. I echo the question about how you approach a new judge. Best, Kate On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:47 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Scott, How do you deal with a new Judge? Do you walk into the courtroom, > and explaine to the judge you're blind, and need this or that? How do you > do > it? This sighted judge has never delbt with a blind lawyer before. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:54 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > > Katy, I am totally blind and have been so pretty much since the time I > lost > my sight. Therefore, I cannot directly relate with you other than to say > my > wife is in a similar situation. Sometimes, she carries her cane and > sometimes not. I have noticed that she usually does take her cane when we > are going somewhere new and plan on meeting new people. She finds it > easier > to explain that she is blind and has some residual vision than to deal > with > people thinking she is fully sighted and wondering why she isn't making > the > best eye contact or can't see the signs or can't read name tags or > whatever. > I think she also takes it because she wants to be able to use it in > unfamiliar locations, especially at night and more especially to deal with > stairs and other things she doesn't see too well. > > Ultimately, I guess it depends on which issue you'd rather have. I think > it > also depends on why it is you choose not to carry a cane. These are > questions with which I cannot help you much. > > However, I can tell you that as an attorney, you are very likely going to > be > in situations that are pressure packed and move along quite quickly. In a > courtroom, do you want a Judge or jury wondering why you aren't exactly > acting like the other lawyers in the room? Would it be easier or harder > to > explain that you are legally blind and that is why you aren't able to > read > things or see objects or whatever? Or would it be easier to carry a cane > alerting the judge and counsel that you are blind allowing you to explain > later that you can see some. > > Now, I know you sent off your post not wondering whether you should carry > a > cane or not but rather asking the question of how you should explain > yourself. I guess my first advice is to speak with others who are > similarly situated. We have such blind lawyers on this list. Charlie > Brown, our First Vice President, has quite a bit of residual vision yet > has > always carried a cane. I am sure there are others who don't. > > I wish you luck with this dilemma and I hope we can be helpful. > Thanks, > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any > attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" < > kc2992a at student.american.edu> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] advice > > > Hi List! >> >> I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this >> dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, >> unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to >> you: >> >> Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. >> Not >> surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name >> and >> either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate >> networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane >> with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment >> or >> respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people >> who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has >> anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? >> >> I would appreciate any thoughts. >> >> -- >> Kathryn CARROLL >> American University >> 631 521 3018 >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Mar 24 04:32:44 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 21:32:44 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] advice References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com><425A291CCC56467D912AE2191CCE61F9@labarre> <2fdbeb321003231341u58153abdi6cee832f7494d1ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7295257@EVS02.central.pima.gov> That's what I have been trying - fortunately, I currently practice in the juvenile section of our office (public defense office), so there is not the jury issue to deal with. The greater issue is the speed at which we have to set up, and vacate, the defense table during morning court - the cane is the least of the issues, since I am still able to read with the use of a portable video magnifier. In general, though, it has given me the opportunity (desired or not) to get people acquainted with both the varying degrees of blindness mentioned and the technology available to permit us to continue to do the things we have always done. ________________________________ From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org on behalf of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tue 3/23/2010 6:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice It is much easier to carry the cane and explain that there are degrees of blindness which is something that many sighted people don't think about. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice Hi all, I really appreciate all of your responses to my question. I am one of those people who uses a cane only sometimes, because I don't have to. Therefore, I have come into situation when I have had my cane with me and people have commented that I don't act like I am blind, so why do I need to carry a cane; and also situations in which I didn't have my cane and was unable to explain that there was something I couldn't see and why. Scott, I appreciate your foresight about what life will be like working in a courtroom. I echo the question about how you approach a new judge. Best, Kate On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:47 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Scott, How do you deal with a new Judge? Do you walk into the courtroom, > and explaine to the judge you're blind, and need this or that? How do you > do > it? This sighted judge has never delbt with a blind lawyer before. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:54 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > > Katy, I am totally blind and have been so pretty much since the time I > lost > my sight. Therefore, I cannot directly relate with you other than to say > my > wife is in a similar situation. Sometimes, she carries her cane and > sometimes not. I have noticed that she usually does take her cane when we > are going somewhere new and plan on meeting new people. She finds it > easier > to explain that she is blind and has some residual vision than to deal > with > people thinking she is fully sighted and wondering why she isn't making > the > best eye contact or can't see the signs or can't read name tags or > whatever. > I think she also takes it because she wants to be able to use it in > unfamiliar locations, especially at night and more especially to deal with > stairs and other things she doesn't see too well. > > Ultimately, I guess it depends on which issue you'd rather have. I think > it > also depends on why it is you choose not to carry a cane. These are > questions with which I cannot help you much. > > However, I can tell you that as an attorney, you are very likely going to > be > in situations that are pressure packed and move along quite quickly. In a > courtroom, do you want a Judge or jury wondering why you aren't exactly > acting like the other lawyers in the room? Would it be easier or harder > to > explain that you are legally blind and that is why you aren't able to > read > things or see objects or whatever? Or would it be easier to carry a cane > alerting the judge and counsel that you are blind allowing you to explain > later that you can see some. > > Now, I know you sent off your post not wondering whether you should carry > a > cane or not but rather asking the question of how you should explain > yourself. I guess my first advice is to speak with others who are > similarly situated. We have such blind lawyers on this list. Charlie > Brown, our First Vice President, has quite a bit of residual vision yet > has > always carried a cane. I am sure there are others who don't. > > I wish you luck with this dilemma and I hope we can be helpful. > Thanks, > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any > attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" < > kc2992a at student.american.edu> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] advice > > > Hi List! >> >> I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this >> dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, >> unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to >> you: >> >> Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. >> Not >> surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name >> and >> either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate >> networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane >> with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment >> or >> respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people >> who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has >> anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? >> >> I would appreciate any thoughts. >> >> -- >> Kathryn CARROLL >> American University >> 631 521 3018 >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 24 08:49:25 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:49:25 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7295257@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <2fdbeb321003211337t7536c383j25a6878ef5ae3a07@mail.gmail.com><425A291CCC56467D912AE2191CCE61F9@labarre><2fdbeb321003231341u58153abdi6cee832f7494d1ab@mail.gmail.com> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7295257@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <48DA7E1F7F32407395758927F0CD6567@spike> When I was in paralegal school I was considering an internship with the local public defender's office but at that time the drawback was the high volume of handwritten documents such as police reports that I would not have been able to read. Apparently, now police reports for felony cases are typed but not all misdemeanor reports are typed locally. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kelly" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" ; "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice That's what I have been trying - fortunately, I currently practice in the juvenile section of our office (public defense office), so there is not the jury issue to deal with. The greater issue is the speed at which we have to set up, and vacate, the defense table during morning court - the cane is the least of the issues, since I am still able to read with the use of a portable video magnifier. In general, though, it has given me the opportunity (desired or not) to get people acquainted with both the varying degrees of blindness mentioned and the technology available to permit us to continue to do the things we have always done. ________________________________ From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org on behalf of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Tue 3/23/2010 6:28 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice It is much easier to carry the cane and explain that there are degrees of blindness which is something that many sighted people don't think about. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice Hi all, I really appreciate all of your responses to my question. I am one of those people who uses a cane only sometimes, because I don't have to. Therefore, I have come into situation when I have had my cane with me and people have commented that I don't act like I am blind, so why do I need to carry a cane; and also situations in which I didn't have my cane and was unable to explain that there was something I couldn't see and why. Scott, I appreciate your foresight about what life will be like working in a courtroom. I echo the question about how you approach a new judge. Best, Kate On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:47 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Scott, How do you deal with a new Judge? Do you walk into the courtroom, > and explaine to the judge you're blind, and need this or that? How do you > do > it? This sighted judge has never delbt with a blind lawyer before. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:54 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > > Katy, I am totally blind and have been so pretty much since the time I > lost > my sight. Therefore, I cannot directly relate with you other than to say > my > wife is in a similar situation. Sometimes, she carries her cane and > sometimes not. I have noticed that she usually does take her cane when we > are going somewhere new and plan on meeting new people. She finds it > easier > to explain that she is blind and has some residual vision than to deal > with > people thinking she is fully sighted and wondering why she isn't making > the > best eye contact or can't see the signs or can't read name tags or > whatever. > I think she also takes it because she wants to be able to use it in > unfamiliar locations, especially at night and more especially to deal with > stairs and other things she doesn't see too well. > > Ultimately, I guess it depends on which issue you'd rather have. I think > it > also depends on why it is you choose not to carry a cane. These are > questions with which I cannot help you much. > > However, I can tell you that as an attorney, you are very likely going to > be > in situations that are pressure packed and move along quite quickly. In a > courtroom, do you want a Judge or jury wondering why you aren't exactly > acting like the other lawyers in the room? Would it be easier or harder > to > explain that you are legally blind and that is why you aren't able to > read > things or see objects or whatever? Or would it be easier to carry a cane > alerting the judge and counsel that you are blind allowing you to explain > later that you can see some. > > Now, I know you sent off your post not wondering whether you should carry > a > cane or not but rather asking the question of how you should explain > yourself. I guess my first advice is to speak with others who are > similarly situated. We have such blind lawyers on this list. Charlie > Brown, our First Vice President, has quite a bit of residual vision yet > has > always carried a cane. I am sure there are others who don't. > > I wish you luck with this dilemma and I hope we can be helpful. > Thanks, > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any > attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" < > kc2992a at student.american.edu> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] advice > > > Hi List! >> >> I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced this >> dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in my career, >> unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing this problem to >> you: >> >> Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. >> Not >> surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's name >> and >> either place of work or study to wear during the event, to help initiate >> networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the need to carry a cane >> with me. However, I can't see other people;s name tags, and can't comment >> or >> respond to what is written on them. I would like to be able to ask people >> who they are and where they work without seeming like I can't read. Has >> anyone perfected a introduction by which they can do this? >> >> I would appreciate any thoughts. >> >> -- >> Kathryn CARROLL >> American University >> 631 521 3018 >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From agtolentino at gmail.com Wed Mar 24 10:02:53 2010 From: agtolentino at gmail.com (Aser Tolentino) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 03:02:53 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] High Volume Criminal Calendars Message-ID: Hi Everybody, Has anyone on list ever handled a high volume criminal calendar, say in excess of 50 cases for the morning? I really want to be a prosecutor. I have discovered that I (technically right now a secretary since interns don't have access) can pull scanned versions of the files themselves from the office's archives to use to prepare for hearings and the like. That and trial, though I've never done a real one, I think I can deal with. The big obstacle at the moment is calendars. Standing in for a number of attorneys, one prosecutor might have 50 or more cases on the table for the morning calendar, dealing with everything from first appearances to judgment and sentencing. The big issue is that I can't read the notes on the docket sheets. Has anyone ever been in my position or something like it? I'm thinking a reader might be the only possible solution. We would have to go over cases when the calendar was prepared and he or she would have to be there with me if questions arose during court. I'm not sure how viable that is. Assuming all of that is viable. Does anyone have any advice on how to bring up the need for a reader with a potential employer? Is that a cost they incur for hiring me? It has been suggested, in a speculative way, that I might have better luck getting such support at a large metro office rather than out in the smaller counties where I've worked. Any thoughts on that? I like to think of myself as being able to come up with solutions to such issues, but I'm aware of potential limitations. Any guidance you could provide would be appreciated. Thanks, Aser From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Wed Mar 24 10:37:58 2010 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 06:37:58 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] High Volume Criminal Calendars In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9B9E3BAAB977499182D4907F415B860E@14bd0130080a469> Hi Aser, I have a full-time reader/sighted assistant since I work regularly with visual formats and hand written materials in federal government. I requested a reasonable accommodation. My employer contracts with a temp agency and assigns a number of hours/week according to needs of blind employees in this division. The approximately $70,000/year contract to do this is more expensive than hiring a part or even full-time person at a low grade level for the job of working with several blind employees. My employer chose the contract route. It sounds like you are in county government, so there are differences. Sorry, that is what I have to offer. Cathryn Bonnette -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aser Tolentino Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:03 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] High Volume Criminal Calendars Hi Everybody, Has anyone on list ever handled a high volume criminal calendar, say in excess of 50 cases for the morning? I really want to be a prosecutor. I have discovered that I (technically right now a secretary since interns don't have access) can pull scanned versions of the files themselves from the office's archives to use to prepare for hearings and the like. That and trial, though I've never done a real one, I think I can deal with. The big obstacle at the moment is calendars. Standing in for a number of attorneys, one prosecutor might have 50 or more cases on the table for the morning calendar, dealing with everything from first appearances to judgment and sentencing. The big issue is that I can't read the notes on the docket sheets. Has anyone ever been in my position or something like it? I'm thinking a reader might be the only possible solution. We would have to go over cases when the calendar was prepared and he or she would have to be there with me if questions arose during court. I'm not sure how viable that is. Assuming all of that is viable. Does anyone have any advice on how to bring up the need for a reader with a potential employer? Is that a cost they incur for hiring me? It has been suggested, in a speculative way, that I might have better luck getting such support at a large metro office rather than out in the smaller counties where I've worked. Any thoughts on that? I like to think of myself as being able to come up with solutions to such issues, but I'm aware of potential limitations. Any guidance you could provide would be appreciated. Thanks, Aser _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2765 - Release Date: 03/23/10 07:33:00 From AZNOR99 at aol.com Wed Mar 24 12:04:08 2010 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 08:04:08 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] High Volume Criminal Calendars Message-ID: <72ee.2cbd3e62.38db59b8@aol.com> Hello, I prosecuted criminal cases for Cook County, the second largest unified court system in the country, for several years. On average, I handled between 50-75 cases a day, ranging from bond hearings to jury or bench trials. I originally started out as a law clerk myself, so I didn't feel I had the leverage to be able to ask for a reader. So instead, I'd spend the afternoon and evening before the court call looking at the files and creating notes in Braille or on my laptop for the next day. I requested that the local police departments email me police reports, and I was then able to read them with Jaws; the administrative assistant who pulled backgrounds for defendants knew that she'd have to spend a few minutes with me in my court room reading their content to me so I could add that to my notes during the call. The nature of high volume litigation is such that the case files generally consist of a criminal complaint (which is mostly standard except for the crime and the basis for the crime), a police report, a criminal background, and perhaps pictures if it was a violent crime. Thus I could generally get the gist of a case down to a paragraph or so of notes. Later, I began using the KNFB Reader to give me instant access to information. This was fantastic because I could independently read a supplemental report or a case that was transferred to me from another courtroom without having to find someone to read for me. And worst case scenario, as a law clerk, I had access to a supervising attorney who could read if necessary. But when I became the supervising attorney (which happens pretty much 10 minutes after you're hired permanently in Cook County), I requested law clerks for my court call, and they doubled as readers when necessary. It worked pretty well. Feel free to email me off list if you have additional questions. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 3/24/2010 7:39:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cathrynisfinally at verizon.net writes: Hi Aser, I have a full-time reader/sighted assistant since I work regularly with visual formats and hand written materials in federal government. I requested a reasonable accommodation. My employer contracts with a temp agency and assigns a number of hours/week according to needs of blind employees in this division. The approximately $70,000/year contract to do this is more expensive than hiring a part or even full-time person at a low grade level for the job of working with several blind employees. My employer chose the contract route. It sounds like you are in county government, so there are differences. Sorry, that is what I have to offer. Cathryn Bonnette -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aser Tolentino Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:03 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] High Volume Criminal Calendars Hi Everybody, Has anyone on list ever handled a high volume criminal calendar, say in excess of 50 cases for the morning? I really want to be a prosecutor. I have discovered that I (technically right now a secretary since interns don't have access) can pull scanned versions of the files themselves from the office's archives to use to prepare for hearings and the like. That and trial, though I've never done a real one, I think I can deal with. The big obstacle at the moment is calendars. Standing in for a number of attorneys, one prosecutor might have 50 or more cases on the table for the morning calendar, dealing with everything from first appearances to judgment and sentencing. The big issue is that I can't read the notes on the docket sheets. Has anyone ever been in my position or something like it? I'm thinking a reader might be the only possible solution. We would have to go over cases when the calendar was prepared and he or she would have to be there with me if questions arose during court. I'm not sure how viable that is. Assuming all of that is viable. Does anyone have any advice on how to bring up the need for a reader with a potential employer? Is that a cost they incur for hiring me? It has been suggested, in a speculative way, that I might have better luck getting such support at a large metro office rather than out in the smaller counties where I've worked. Any thoughts on that? I like to think of myself as being able to come up with solutions to such issues, but I'm aware of potential limitations. Any guidance you could provide would be appreciated. Thanks, Aser _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2765 - Release Date: 03/23/10 07:33:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 24 19:01:12 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:01:12 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] High Volume Criminal Calendars In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Many of the better paralegal programs require paralegal students to go an internship as part of their training. This sounds like it would be appropriate as the paralegal student would actually be performing paralegal functions by assisting you in court and helping to prepare cases. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno, ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aser Tolentino" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:02 AM Subject: [blindlaw] High Volume Criminal Calendars > Hi Everybody, > Has anyone on list ever handled a high volume criminal calendar, say in > excess of 50 cases for the morning? I really want to be a prosecutor. I > have > discovered that I (technically right now a secretary since interns don't > have access) can pull scanned versions of the files themselves from the > office's archives to use to prepare for hearings and the like. That and > trial, though I've never done a real one, I think I can deal with. The big > obstacle at the moment is calendars. Standing in for a number of > attorneys, > one prosecutor might have 50 or more cases on the table for the morning > calendar, dealing with everything from first appearances to judgment and > sentencing. The big issue is that I can't read the notes on the docket > sheets. Has anyone ever been in my position or something like it? > I'm thinking a reader might be the only possible solution. We would have > to > go over cases when the calendar was prepared and he or she would have to > be > there with me if questions arose during court. I'm not sure how viable > that > is. > Assuming all of that is viable. Does anyone have any advice on how to > bring > up the need for a reader with a potential employer? Is that a cost they > incur for hiring me? It has been suggested, in a speculative way, that I > might have better luck getting such support at a large metro office rather > than out in the smaller counties where I've worked. Any thoughts on that? > I like to think of myself as being able to come up with solutions to such > issues, but I'm aware of potential limitations. Any guidance you could > provide would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > Aser > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Mar 24 20:43:34 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:43:34 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Keith -- Your anecdote about stumbling over a chair and wires in a moot courtroom reminded me of one of my experiences in a moot court situation with "real" jurors and judge. It was a NITA course in San Francisco. My opposing counsel were associates from another office in my law firm. While I was in the well conducting an examination, one of my opposing counsel moved his brief bag into the aisle in between the two counsel tables. If I had not been using my cane, I would have tripped on the bag because it had not been there when I had entered the aisle to go into the well. As it was, I just detected the bag with my cane and stepped over it without a hitch. At the end of the trial, one of the comments the judge made to me was that I was very graceful in the courtroom. There were other comments I would rather have had, but I took it and thought to myself, "If you only knew how ungraceful I could have been if I hadn't been using my cane." Noel nightingale -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of K V Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:35 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice Hi Kate, I am in a similar situation. My vision is progressively getting worse by field of vision. Also, my central vision has faded such that more light is needed for me to see. I began to use a cane a few years ago and various people responded with everything from disbelief to skepticism to, quite frankly, hostility. This has been very difficult to overcome. My cane trainer suggested that I use the cane all the time. In retrospect he may have been sensitive to how people perceive the partial use of a cane. At first I tried to use the cane all the time but it felt silly when I was walking in a familiar environment with minimal traffic and nice flat sidewalks in bright sunlight. So, I started to selectively use the cane. Regarding court room appearances, I have not yet actually practiced in court room. I am taking the bar this July. However, I did have a moot court class which was presided over by Judge Sullivan in the 2nd Circuit. The classes met in the Moynihan courtroom in Manhattan. It was a privilege. Anyways, I emailed the judge to let him know that I did have vision problems. He was very courteous. By the end of the semester I think I ran into a chair and stumbled over taped down wires - but otherwise it was uneventful. The witness chair steps were a pain though. I never did use a cane in the courtroom. For my final trial I showed up about an hour early and basically walked the court room to memorize where everything was. I walked from the lecturn to the witness stand to my table a few times. The trial went fine without any tripping or stumbling. I do think the judge was concerned by my use of extra extra large fonts in my notes as the jury could have read the notes if I held them up. One thing I was thinking of doing was creating a boilerplate letter that included my field of vision plot and sharing it with the judge and opposing counsel prior to any court appearances. I am assuming the opposing counsel wouldn't take advantage of the information and move boxes or chairs around in the courtroom during arguments or witness examinations. I suspect a judge would say something if she detected that kind of tactic. I am curious what suggestions others have. If you want to discuss this more offline, please feel free to contact me. Warmest regards, Keith Vick > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:41:22 -0400 > From: kc2992a at student.american.edu > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > Hi all, > > I really appreciate all of your responses to my question. I am one of > those people who uses a cane only sometimes, because I don't have to. > Therefore, I have come into situation when I have had my cane with me > and people have commented that I don't act like I am blind, so why do > I need to carry a cane; and also situations in which I didn't have my > cane and was unable to explain that there was something I couldn't see and why. > > Scott, I appreciate your foresight about what life will be like > working in a courtroom. I echo the question about how you approach a new judge. > > Best, > Kate > > On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:47 PM, RJ Sandefur > > wrote: > > > Scott, How do you deal with a new Judge? Do you walk into the > > courtroom, and explaine to the judge you're blind, and need this or > > that? How do you do it? This sighted judge has never delbt with a blind lawyer before. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > > > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:54 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > > > > > Katy, I am totally blind and have been so pretty much since the time > > I lost my sight. Therefore, I cannot directly relate with you other > > than to say my wife is in a similar situation. Sometimes, she > > carries her cane and sometimes not. I have noticed that she usually > > does take her cane when we are going somewhere new and plan on > > meeting new people. She finds it easier to explain that she is blind > > and has some residual vision than to deal with people thinking she > > is fully sighted and wondering why she isn't making the best eye > > contact or can't see the signs or can't read name tags or whatever. > > I think she also takes it because she wants to be able to use it in > > unfamiliar locations, especially at night and more especially to > > deal with stairs and other things she doesn't see too well. > > > > Ultimately, I guess it depends on which issue you'd rather have. I > > think it also depends on why it is you choose not to carry a cane. > > These are questions with which I cannot help you much. > > > > However, I can tell you that as an attorney, you are very likely > > going to be in situations that are pressure packed and move along > > quite quickly. In a courtroom, do you want a Judge or jury wondering > > why you aren't exactly acting like the other lawyers in the room? > > Would it be easier or harder to explain that you are legally blind > > and that is why you aren't able to read things or see objects or > > whatever? Or would it be easier to carry a cane alerting the judge > > and counsel that you are blind allowing you to explain later that > > you can see some. > > > > Now, I know you sent off your post not wondering whether you should > > carry a cane or not but rather asking the question of how you should > > explain yourself. I guess my first advice is to speak with others > > who are similarly situated. We have such blind lawyers on this list. > > Charlie Brown, our First Vice President, has quite a bit of residual > > vision yet has always carried a cane. I am sure there are others who > > don't. > > > > I wish you luck with this dilemma and I hope we can be helpful. > > Thanks, > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you > > may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you > > received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) > > 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from > > your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the > > Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" < > > kc2992a at student.american.edu> > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37 PM > > Subject: [blindlaw] advice > > > > > > Hi List! > >> > >> I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced > >> this dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in > >> my career, unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing > >> this problem to > >> you: > >> > >> Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. > >> Not > >> surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's > >> name and either place of work or study to wear during the event, to > >> help initiate networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the > >> need to carry a cane with me. However, I can't see other people;s > >> name tags, and can't comment or respond to what is written on them. > >> I would like to be able to ask people who they are and where they > >> work without seeming like I can't read. Has anyone perfected a > >> introduction by which they can do this? > >> > >> I would appreciate any thoughts. > >> > >> -- > >> Kathryn CARROLL > >> American University > >> 631 521 3018 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for > >> blindlaw: > >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre% > >> 40labarrelaw.com > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for > > blindlaw: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac > > ksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for > > blindlaw: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40 > > student.american.edu > > > > > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > American University > 631 521 3018 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keith-vick%4 > 0msn.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From keith-vick at msn.com Wed Mar 24 21:10:29 2010 From: keith-vick at msn.com (K V) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:10:29 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Hi Noel, Thank you. Good point. I will use the cane if I ever make appearances in the courtroom. Thanks, Keith Vick > From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:43:34 -0500 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > Keith -- > > Your anecdote about stumbling over a chair and wires in a moot courtroom reminded me of one of my experiences in a moot court situation with "real" jurors and judge. It was a NITA course in San Francisco. My opposing counsel were associates from another office in my law firm. > > While I was in the well conducting an examination, one of my opposing counsel moved his brief bag into the aisle in between the two counsel tables. If I had not been using my cane, I would have tripped on the bag because it had not been there when I had entered the aisle to go into the well. As it was, I just detected the bag with my cane and stepped over it without a hitch. > > At the end of the trial, one of the comments the judge made to me was that I was very graceful in the courtroom. There were other comments I would rather have had, but I took it and thought to myself, "If you only knew how ungraceful I could have been if I hadn't been using my cane." > > Noel nightingale > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of K V > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:35 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > > Hi Kate, > > > > I am in a similar situation. My vision is progressively getting worse by field of vision. Also, my central vision has faded such that more light is needed for me to see. I began to use a cane a few years ago and various people responded with everything from disbelief to skepticism to, quite frankly, hostility. This has been very difficult to overcome. > > > > My cane trainer suggested that I use the cane all the time. In retrospect he may have been sensitive to how people perceive the partial use of a cane. At first I tried to use the cane all the time but it felt silly when I was walking in a familiar environment with minimal traffic and nice flat sidewalks in bright sunlight. So, I started to selectively use the cane. > > > > Regarding court room appearances, I have not yet actually practiced in court room. I am taking the bar this July. However, I did have a moot court class which was presided over by Judge Sullivan in the 2nd Circuit. The classes met in the Moynihan courtroom in Manhattan. It was a privilege. Anyways, I emailed the judge to let him know that I did have vision problems. He was very courteous. By the end of the semester I think I ran into a chair and stumbled over taped down wires - but otherwise it was uneventful. The witness chair steps were a pain though. I never did use a cane in the courtroom. > > > > For my final trial I showed up about an hour early and basically walked the court room to memorize where everything was. I walked from the lecturn to the witness stand to my table a few times. The trial went fine without any tripping or stumbling. I do think the judge was concerned by my use of extra extra large fonts in my notes as the jury could have read the notes if I held them up. > > > > One thing I was thinking of doing was creating a boilerplate letter that included my field of vision plot and sharing it with the judge and opposing counsel prior to any court appearances. I am assuming the opposing counsel wouldn't take advantage of the information and move boxes or chairs around in the courtroom during arguments or witness examinations. I suspect a judge would say something if she detected that kind of tactic. > > > > I am curious what suggestions others have. If you want to discuss this more offline, please feel free to contact me. > > > > Warmest regards, > > > > Keith Vick > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:41:22 -0400 > > From: kc2992a at student.american.edu > > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > > > Hi all, > > > > I really appreciate all of your responses to my question. I am one of > > those people who uses a cane only sometimes, because I don't have to. > > Therefore, I have come into situation when I have had my cane with me > > and people have commented that I don't act like I am blind, so why do > > I need to carry a cane; and also situations in which I didn't have my > > cane and was unable to explain that there was something I couldn't see and why. > > > > Scott, I appreciate your foresight about what life will be like > > working in a courtroom. I echo the question about how you approach a new judge. > > > > Best, > > Kate > > > > On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:47 PM, RJ Sandefur > > > > wrote: > > > > > Scott, How do you deal with a new Judge? Do you walk into the > > > courtroom, and explaine to the judge you're blind, and need this or > > > that? How do you do it? This sighted judge has never delbt with a blind lawyer before. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > > > > > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:54 PM > > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] advice > > > > > > > > > Katy, I am totally blind and have been so pretty much since the time > > > I lost my sight. Therefore, I cannot directly relate with you other > > > than to say my wife is in a similar situation. Sometimes, she > > > carries her cane and sometimes not. I have noticed that she usually > > > does take her cane when we are going somewhere new and plan on > > > meeting new people. She finds it easier to explain that she is blind > > > and has some residual vision than to deal with people thinking she > > > is fully sighted and wondering why she isn't making the best eye > > > contact or can't see the signs or can't read name tags or whatever. > > > I think she also takes it because she wants to be able to use it in > > > unfamiliar locations, especially at night and more especially to > > > deal with stairs and other things she doesn't see too well. > > > > > > Ultimately, I guess it depends on which issue you'd rather have. I > > > think it also depends on why it is you choose not to carry a cane. > > > These are questions with which I cannot help you much. > > > > > > However, I can tell you that as an attorney, you are very likely > > > going to be in situations that are pressure packed and move along > > > quite quickly. In a courtroom, do you want a Judge or jury wondering > > > why you aren't exactly acting like the other lawyers in the room? > > > Would it be easier or harder to explain that you are legally blind > > > and that is why you aren't able to read things or see objects or > > > whatever? Or would it be easier to carry a cane alerting the judge > > > and counsel that you are blind allowing you to explain later that > > > you can see some. > > > > > > Now, I know you sent off your post not wondering whether you should > > > carry a cane or not but rather asking the question of how you should > > > explain yourself. I guess my first advice is to speak with others > > > who are similarly situated. We have such blind lawyers on this list. > > > Charlie Brown, our First Vice President, has quite a bit of residual > > > vision yet has always carried a cane. I am sure there are others who > > > don't. > > > > > > I wish you luck with this dilemma and I hope we can be helpful. > > > Thanks, > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you > > > may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you > > > received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) > > > 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from > > > your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the > > > Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" < > > > kc2992a at student.american.edu> > > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37 PM > > > Subject: [blindlaw] advice > > > > > > > > > Hi List! > > >> > > >> I have run numerous times into the same dilemma and I am convinced > > >> this dilemma will become more and more of a problem as I move on in > > >> my career, unless I do something about it, which is why i am posing > > >> this problem to > > >> you: > > >> > > >> Recently I went to a meeting of a professional organization here in DC. > > >> Not > > >> surprisingly, each of the attendees were given name tags with one's > > >> name and either place of work or study to wear during the event, to > > >> help initiate networking. I am partially blind, and don't feel the > > >> need to carry a cane with me. However, I can't see other people;s > > >> name tags, and can't comment or respond to what is written on them. > > >> I would like to be able to ask people who they are and where they > > >> work without seeming like I can't read. Has anyone perfected a > > >> introduction by which they can do this? > > >> > > >> I would appreciate any thoughts. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Kathryn CARROLL > > >> American University > > >> 631 521 3018 > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> blindlaw mailing list > > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > >> for > > >> blindlaw: > > >> > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre% > > >> 40labarrelaw.com > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > blindlaw mailing list > > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > > for > > > blindlaw: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac > > > ksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > blindlaw mailing list > > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > > for > > > blindlaw: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40 > > > student.american.edu > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Kathryn CARROLL > > American University > > 631 521 3018 > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keith-vick%4 > > 0msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keith-vick%40msn.com From michael.steven.n at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 03:42:26 2010 From: michael.steven.n at gmail.com (Michael S. Nunez) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:42:26 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Question regarding accessibility of law firm time entry and document management software Message-ID: <4bac2d28.9653f10a.4781.1c48@mx.google.com> Hello Everyone, I am a legally blind second year law student who will be summering this year at a large law firm. I am currently arranging my accommodations at the firm, and I write to ask whether any of you have used the Humming Bird document management program or DTE, a time entry system. If you have used either program, I would appreciate hearing about whether you were able to use these programs with JAWS or some other screen reader. Thank You, Michael From rfarber at jw.com Fri Mar 26 04:48:14 2010 From: rfarber at jw.com (Farber, Randy) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 23:48:14 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Question regarding accessibility of law firm time entryand document management software In-Reply-To: <4bac2d28.9653f10a.4781.1c48@mx.google.com> References: <4bac2d28.9653f10a.4781.1c48@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8EA167BDF4483449B67BBE3BFCB648F1112EBE5A@pdc-mail01.jwllp.com> We use Humming Bird. The current version is called DM. It works a little bit with JAWS. You need to know what you want to do and what it is reading to understand it all of the time. Contact me off line and I can discuss in more detail. Randy Randal S. Farber Jackson Walker L.L.P. 1401 McKinney, Suite 1900 Houston, Texas 77010 713-752-4241 - Phone 713-308-4120 - Fax RFarber at JW.Com -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael S. Nunez Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:42 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Question regarding accessibility of law firm time entryand document management software Hello Everyone, I am a legally blind second year law student who will be summering this year at a large law firm. I am currently arranging my accommodations at the firm, and I write to ask whether any of you have used the Humming Bird document management program or DTE, a time entry system. If you have used either program, I would appreciate hearing about whether you were able to use these programs with JAWS or some other screen reader. Thank You, Michael _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rfarber%40jw.c om -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Farber, Randal S .vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 425 bytes Desc: Farber, Randal S .vcf URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Mar 26 16:30:51 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:30:51 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Question regarding accessibility of law firm time entry and document management software In-Reply-To: <4bac2d28.9653f10a.4781.1c48@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Michael: My office uses the Hummingbird document management program. Currently, while the rest of my office uses the Vista operating system, I remain in a dinosaur operating system, Windows 2000, because Office 2007, Vista, JAWS, and the Hummingbird document management program don't work together. There are bad things about Hummingbird even using Office 2003 and windows 2000 but I have found workarounds that involve using a reader. Please call me if you wish to discuss further. You may reach me in Seattle at (206) 607-1632. Noel nightingale -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael S. Nunez Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:42 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Question regarding accessibility of law firm time entry and document management software Hello Everyone, I am a legally blind second year law student who will be summering this year at a large law firm. I am currently arranging my accommodations at the firm, and I write to ask whether any of you have used the Humming Bird document management program or DTE, a time entry system. If you have used either program, I would appreciate hearing about whether you were able to use these programs with JAWS or some other screen reader. Thank You, Michael _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From jsorozco at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 02:26:20 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 22:26:20 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane Message-ID: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> Hello all, Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now a dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my cane black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane all the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if my cane were not white? Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth operator with the brand-new black magic stick. Best, Joe Orozco "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From kc2992a at student.american.edu Sun Mar 28 02:30:59 2010 From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 22:30:59 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> Message-ID: <2fdbeb321003271930j6058e463yf55cfe6d0118b19a@mail.gmail.com> I have no idea, but I'll paint mine too! -Kate Carroll On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 10:26 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Hello all, > > Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National > Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with > the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take > them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the > elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now > a > dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. > > So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a > different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short > of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my > cane > black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess > the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane > all > the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone > actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if > my cane were not white? > > Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of > multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my > outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* > > Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth > operator with the brand-new black magic stick. > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 04:26:49 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 00:26:49 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <2fdbeb321003271930j6058e463yf55cfe6d0118b19a@mail.gmail.com> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> <2fdbeb321003271930j6058e463yf55cfe6d0118b19a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d1003272126w630f97b4u8250bd8fca547d7a@mail.gmail.com> Huh? Pimp my cane? This is worse than Pimp My Ride. Let's do a TV show about it and see if it gets any ratings besides Pimp My Ride. My brother loves that show anyway. Beth On 3/27/10, Katy Carroll wrote: > I have no idea, but I'll paint mine too! > > -Kate Carroll > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 10:26 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National >> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with >> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take >> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the >> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now >> a >> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >> >> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >> different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short >> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my >> cane >> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess >> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane >> all >> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone >> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if >> my cane were not white? >> >> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* >> >> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth >> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu >> > > > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > American University > 631 521 3018 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 07:48:33 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 01:48:33 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> Message-ID: <07B6E9343FE04EED90F7590CE3F4E021@azizaLatD430> I'm guessing thaWell, lets not forget that some of the folding canes have red on them, so what happens there? Aziza ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Cc: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:26 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Hello all, > > Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National > Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with > the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take > them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the > elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now > a > dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. > > So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a > different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short > of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my > cane > black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess > the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane > all > the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone > actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if > my cane were not white? > > Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of > multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my > outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* > > Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth > operator with the brand-new black magic stick. > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com From joramsey at cox.net Sun Mar 28 08:17:46 2010 From: joramsey at cox.net (John Ramsey) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 04:17:46 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <07B6E9343FE04EED90F7590CE3F4E021@azizaLatD430> Message-ID: <8006D2BA9A15432CA8379B1CDC964516@noneeb869fea9a> Here in Florida that idea would be in violation of Florida's White Cane Law. John A. Ramsey Jr., P.A. P.O. Box 6063 Gainesville, FL 32627 Phone: (352) 505-6642 Fax: (352) 240-6453 This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) 505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our control. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aziza Cano Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 3:49 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane I'm guessing thaWell, lets not forget that some of the folding canes have red on them, so what happens there? Aziza ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Cc: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:26 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Hello all, > > Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the > National Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber > glass types with the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In > fact, I promptly take them off and lose them, and I much prefer these > to the dorky ones with the elastic bands, no offense if you happen to > sport these. Besides, I am now a dork, because since that's all they > had, that's all I got. > > So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a > different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and > short of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about > painting my cane black or blue or some sweeter combination than the > dull white, and I guess the point is not so much whether this is > acceptable. I'll paint my cane all > the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone > actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if > my cane were not white? > > Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of > multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my > outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. > *grin* > > Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the > smooth operator with the brand-new black magic stick. > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at > all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor% 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 28 09:43:55 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 02:43:55 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> Message-ID: In many states the White Cane is the only cane that is recognized to show that a person is blind. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Cc: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:26 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Hello all, > > Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National > Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with > the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take > them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the > elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now > a > dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. > > So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a > different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short > of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my > cane > black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess > the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane > all > the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone > actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if > my cane were not white? > > Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of > multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my > outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* > > Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth > operator with the brand-new black magic stick. > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 28 10:03:48 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 03:03:48 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <07B6E9343FE04EED90F7590CE3F4E021@azizaLatD430> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> <07B6E9343FE04EED90F7590CE3F4E021@azizaLatD430> Message-ID: Generally the white cane with the red tip is what is standard in many locales. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aziza Cano" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > I'm guessing thaWell, lets not forget that some of the folding canes have > red on them, so what happens there? > Aziza > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Cc: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:26 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> Hello all, >> >> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the >> National >> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with >> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take >> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with >> the >> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am >> now a >> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >> >> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >> different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and >> short >> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my >> cane >> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I >> guess >> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane >> all >> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone >> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident >> if >> my cane were not white? >> >> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* >> >> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the >> smooth >> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From dwilson.lists at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 11:07:40 2010 From: dwilson.lists at gmail.com (Derek Wilson) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 20:07:40 +0900 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> <07B6E9343FE04EED90F7590CE3F4E021@azizaLatD430> Message-ID: <6152341003280407v4d1e947cp5c2df7610f78153d@mail.gmail.com> The white cane with the red stripe near the tip is standard in North America. In Asia and many (if not all) parts of Europe, I believe the all-white cane is standard. In the movie Scent of a Woman, Al Pacino's character used an all-black cane, which I have seen at online retailers in both Canada and some states. Never came across a rainbow cane, but have often thought of doing a red-and-white candy cane to help others celebrate the mid-winter festive season. Cheers, Derek Wilson On 3/28/10, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: > Generally the white cane with the red tip is what is standard in many > locales. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aziza Cano" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 12:48 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> I'm guessing thaWell, lets not forget that some of the folding canes have >> red on them, so what happens there? >> Aziza >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Cc: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:26 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the >>> National >>> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with >>> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take >>> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with >>> the >>> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am >>> now a >>> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >>> >>> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >>> different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and >>> short >>> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my >>> cane >>> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I >>> guess >>> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane >>> all >>> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone >>> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident >>> if >>> my cane were not white? >>> >>> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >>> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >>> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* >>> >>> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the >>> smooth >>> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe Orozco >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dwilson.lists%40gmail.com > From lists at zufelt.ca Sun Mar 28 11:22:39 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 07:22:39 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> Message-ID: Good morning, In Ontario the white cane is standard, and is arguably reflective in poor lighting. As a matter of fact, it is a provincial offence to use a white cane in Ontario if you're not blind. Part of the Blind Persons Rights Act (a piece of legislation with which I completely disagree). Restriction on use of white cane 3. No person, other than a blind person, shall carry or use a cane or walking stick, the major part of which is white, in any public place, public thoroughfare or public conveyance. R.S.O. 1990, c. B.7, s. 3. Thanks, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-03-28, at 5:43 AM, wrote: > In many states the White Cane is the only cane that is recognized to show that a person is blind. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Cc: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:26 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> Hello all, >> >> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National >> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with >> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take >> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the >> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now a >> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >> >> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >> different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short >> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my cane >> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess >> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane all >> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone >> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if >> my cane were not white? >> >> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* >> >> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth >> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 15:33:04 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 10:33:04 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> Message-ID: <01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you should. There is a company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it because the government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the universal sign of blindness. I really liked reading this post. Will -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane Hello all, Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now a dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my cane black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane all the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if my cane were not white? Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth operator with the brand-new black magic stick. Best, Joe Orozco "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 17:31:17 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 13:31:17 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> <01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> Message-ID: <0451A641EC8A476F9CE87CF59875E27E@hometwxakonvzn> Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He learned this idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for the discussion of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you should. There is > a > company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility > instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it because the > government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the > universal sign of blindness. > > I really liked reading this post. > > Will > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > Hello all, > > Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National > Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with > the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take > them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the > elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now > a > dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. > > So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a > different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short > of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my > cane > black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess > the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane > all > the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone > actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if > my cane were not white? > > Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of > multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my > outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* > > Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth > operator with the brand-new black magic stick. > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From lists at zufelt.ca Sun Mar 28 19:26:48 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:26:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <0451A641EC8A476F9CE87CF59875E27E@hometwxakonvzn> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> <01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> <0451A641EC8A476F9CE87CF59875E27E@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <5F559B00-7225-4230-B354-8FACD6089994@zufelt.ca> Dear RJ, who I have never met; I write in hopes that your post was incredibly dry sarcasm, however, if it was not. 1. If you have read this entire thread you will notice that issues related to law / regulation have been discussed. 2. Thank you for the logical fallacy of appealing to authority. 3. Thank you for supporting your argument with nothing other than a personally biased perspective. Thanks, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-03-28, at 1:31 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He learned this idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for the discussion of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you should. There is a >> company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility >> instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it because the >> government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the >> universal sign of blindness. >> >> I really liked reading this post. >> >> Will >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> Hello all, >> >> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National >> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with >> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take >> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the >> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now a >> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >> >> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >> different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short >> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my cane >> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess >> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane all >> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone >> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if >> my cane were not white? >> >> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* >> >> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth >> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From timandvickie at hotmail.com Sun Mar 28 19:28:03 2010 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:28:03 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <0451A641EC8A476F9CE87CF59875E27E@hometwxakonvzn> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus>, <01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com>, <0451A641EC8A476F9CE87CF59875E27E@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: if you read his original email you would realize it WAS about blindness adn the law. he asked about the legality o that action > From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 13:31:17 -0400 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He learned this > idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for the discussion > of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "WB" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > > > Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you should. There is > > a > > company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility > > instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it because the > > government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the > > universal sign of blindness. > > > > I really liked reading this post. > > > > Will > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > Behalf Of Joe Orozco > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM > > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > > Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > > Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > > > Hello all, > > > > Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National > > Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with > > the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take > > them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the > > elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now > > a > > dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. > > > > So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a > > different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short > > of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my > > cane > > black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess > > the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane > > all > > the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone > > actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if > > my cane were not white? > > > > Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of > > multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my > > outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* > > > > Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth > > operator with the brand-new black magic stick. > > > > Best, > > > > Joe Orozco > > > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature > > database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > > il.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_2 From jsorozco at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 19:33:28 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:33:28 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <0451A641EC8A476F9CE87CF59875E27E@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <1FB09BD8A9D94C9CA8322D4D58538622@Rufus> Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in light-hearted tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now and then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me can't be any worse than what it already is. *smirk* Joe Orozco "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He learned this idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for the discussion of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you should. There is > a > company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility > instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it because the > government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the > universal sign of blindness. > > I really liked reading this post. > > Will > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > Hello all, > > Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National > Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with > the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take > them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the > elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now > a > dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. > > So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a > different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short > of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my > cane > black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess > the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane > all > the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone > actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if > my cane were not white? > > Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of > multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my > outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* > > Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth > operator with the brand-new black magic stick. > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv erse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin gjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From AZNOR99 at aol.com Sun Mar 28 20:47:53 2010 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:47:53 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane Message-ID: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com> Hi Joe, How are you? Well, I hope. I was very amused in reading your post about pimping your cane. I honestly don't know the answer to your question. However, I suspect that, given that most state laws about canes for blind people reference the "white cane" specifically, you might come across someone who will try to claim the laws don't apply to you. You also might confuse people. However, I suggest you reach out to two Federationists who've used different colored canes. Stacy Servenka had a really awesome pink cane a few years back. Mazen Istanbuli, a professor from Illinois, actually had a gold-plated cane. Let me know what you figure out - I'm thinking of dying my own lavender and adding really girly sparkles. If nothing else, it'll prevent people from "accidentally" walking away with my cane at Conventions. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 3/28/2010 4:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jsorozco at gmail.com writes: Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in light-hearted tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now and then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me can't be any worse than what it already is. *smirk* Joe Orozco "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He learned this idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for the discussion of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you should. There is > a > company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility > instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it because the > government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the > universal sign of blindness. > > I really liked reading this post. > > Will > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > Hello all, > > Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the National > Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types with > the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take > them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with the > elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am now > a > dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. > > So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a > different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and short > of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my > cane > black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I guess > the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane > all > the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone > actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident if > my cane were not white? > > Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of > multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my > outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* > > Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the smooth > operator with the brand-new black magic stick. > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv erse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin gjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 21:06:25 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:06:25 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com> Message-ID: <710F83CCF3B34483A0F8DE57149C200E@azizaLatD430> Well, people are confused by the white cane too. I had a woman yell at me because she did not know I was blind due to the fact that she mistook my cane for a ski pole. Why I would be carrying a ski pole around campus, I do not know. Aziza ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > Hi Joe, > > How are you? Well, I hope. > > I was very amused in reading your post about pimping your cane. I > honestly don't know the answer to your question. However, I suspect that, > given > that most state laws about canes for blind people reference the "white > cane" > specifically, you might come across someone who will try to claim the laws > don't apply to you. You also might confuse people. > > However, I suggest you reach out to two Federationists who've used > different colored canes. Stacy Servenka had a really awesome pink cane a > few > years back. Mazen Istanbuli, a professor from Illinois, actually had a > gold-plated cane. > > Let me know what you figure out - I'm thinking of dying my own lavender > and > adding really girly sparkles. If nothing else, it'll prevent people from > "accidentally" walking away with my cane at Conventions. > > Regards, > Ronza > > > > > > In a message dated 3/28/2010 4:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jsorozco at gmail.com writes: > > Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in light-hearted > tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now > and > then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me > can't > be any worse than what it already is. *smirk* > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He > learned this > idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for > the discussion > of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "WB" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you > should. There is >> a >> company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility >> instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it > because the >> government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the >> universal sign of blindness. >> >> I really liked reading this post. >> >> Will >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> Hello all, >> >> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called > the National >> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber > glass types with >> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I > promptly take >> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky > ones with the >> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. > Besides, I am now >> a >> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >> >> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >> different color? I think the little elastic band is > mortifying, and short >> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about > painting my >> cane >> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull > white, and I guess >> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll > paint my cane >> all >> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, > could someone >> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of > an accident if >> my cane were not white? >> >> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine > thide. *grin* >> >> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look > for the smooth >> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up > their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv > erse08%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin > gjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com From rumpole at roadrunner.com Sun Mar 28 21:20:29 2010 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 17:20:29 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com> <710F83CCF3B34483A0F8DE57149C200E@azizaLatD430> Message-ID: Now that is interesting - I can say that the most facsinating thing to happen to me was when a clerk at a Home Depot store wanted to get a price on it so that they could charge me for it. the cashier really did think I had a piece of tubing that I was buying when I got to the checkout. For some people, there are just no words. But I must admit I really do like the idea of a gold-plated cane. Of course, I'd have to earn more money than I am right now to afford it, but that is really an intriguing idea. This could be a new business - What about a carved Dragon's head as a hand-grip? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aziza Cano" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Well, people are confused by the white cane too. I had a woman yell at me > because she did not know I was blind due to the fact that she mistook my > cane for a ski pole. Why I would be carrying a ski pole around campus, I > do > not know. > > Aziza > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 2:47 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> >> Hi Joe, >> >> How are you? Well, I hope. >> >> I was very amused in reading your post about pimping your cane. I >> honestly don't know the answer to your question. However, I suspect >> that, >> given >> that most state laws about canes for blind people reference the "white >> cane" >> specifically, you might come across someone who will try to claim the >> laws >> don't apply to you. You also might confuse people. >> >> However, I suggest you reach out to two Federationists who've used >> different colored canes. Stacy Servenka had a really awesome pink cane a >> few >> years back. Mazen Istanbuli, a professor from Illinois, actually had a >> gold-plated cane. >> >> Let me know what you figure out - I'm thinking of dying my own lavender >> and >> adding really girly sparkles. If nothing else, it'll prevent people from >> "accidentally" walking away with my cane at Conventions. >> >> Regards, >> Ronza >> >> >> >> >> >> In a message dated 3/28/2010 4:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> jsorozco at gmail.com writes: >> >> Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in >> light-hearted >> tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now >> and >> then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me >> can't >> be any worse than what it already is. *smirk* >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He >> learned this >> idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for >> the discussion >> of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "WB" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you >> should. There is >>> a >>> company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility >>> instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it >> because the >>> government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the >>> universal sign of blindness. >>> >>> I really liked reading this post. >>> >>> Will >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called >> the National >>> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber >> glass types with >>> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I >> promptly take >>> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky >> ones with the >>> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. >> Besides, I am now >>> a >>> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >>> >>> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >>> different color? I think the little elastic band is >> mortifying, and short >>> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about >> painting my >>> cane >>> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull >> white, and I guess >>> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll >> paint my cane >>> all >>> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, >> could someone >>> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of >> an accident if >>> my cane were not white? >>> >>> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >>> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >>> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine >> thide. *grin* >>> >>> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look >> for the smooth >>> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe Orozco >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >> their sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv >> erse08%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin >> gjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >> co%40gmail.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4980 (20100328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2775 - Release Date: 03/28/10 06:32:00 From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 21:27:12 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 17:27:12 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com> Message-ID: <31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn> David, This is off topic for this list! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > Hi Joe, > > How are you? Well, I hope. > > I was very amused in reading your post about pimping your cane. I > honestly don't know the answer to your question. However, I suspect that, > given > that most state laws about canes for blind people reference the "white > cane" > specifically, you might come across someone who will try to claim the laws > don't apply to you. You also might confuse people. > > However, I suggest you reach out to two Federationists who've used > different colored canes. Stacy Servenka had a really awesome pink cane a > few > years back. Mazen Istanbuli, a professor from Illinois, actually had a > gold-plated cane. > > Let me know what you figure out - I'm thinking of dying my own lavender > and > adding really girly sparkles. If nothing else, it'll prevent people from > "accidentally" walking away with my cane at Conventions. > > Regards, > Ronza > > > > > > In a message dated 3/28/2010 4:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jsorozco at gmail.com writes: > > Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in light-hearted > tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now > and > then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me > can't > be any worse than what it already is. *smirk* > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He > learned this > idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for > the discussion > of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "WB" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you > should. There is >> a >> company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility >> instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it > because the >> government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the >> universal sign of blindness. >> >> I really liked reading this post. >> >> Will >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> Hello all, >> >> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called > the National >> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber > glass types with >> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I > promptly take >> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky > ones with the >> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. > Besides, I am now >> a >> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >> >> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >> different color? I think the little elastic band is > mortifying, and short >> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about > painting my >> cane >> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull > white, and I guess >> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll > paint my cane >> all >> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, > could someone >> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of > an accident if >> my cane were not white? >> >> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine > thide. *grin* >> >> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look > for the smooth >> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up > their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv > erse08%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin > gjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 21:31:05 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:31:05 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com> <31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: I don't agree. He asked about the white cane "law," applying to decorated canes, or canes with altered canes. Can not the blind lawyers shed some light on to this for us? ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 3:27 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > David, This is off topic for this list! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 4:47 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> >> Hi Joe, >> >> How are you? Well, I hope. >> >> I was very amused in reading your post about pimping your cane. I >> honestly don't know the answer to your question. However, I suspect >> that, given >> that most state laws about canes for blind people reference the "white >> cane" >> specifically, you might come across someone who will try to claim the >> laws >> don't apply to you. You also might confuse people. >> >> However, I suggest you reach out to two Federationists who've used >> different colored canes. Stacy Servenka had a really awesome pink cane a >> few >> years back. Mazen Istanbuli, a professor from Illinois, actually had a >> gold-plated cane. >> >> Let me know what you figure out - I'm thinking of dying my own lavender >> and >> adding really girly sparkles. If nothing else, it'll prevent people from >> "accidentally" walking away with my cane at Conventions. >> >> Regards, >> Ronza >> >> >> >> >> >> In a message dated 3/28/2010 4:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> jsorozco at gmail.com writes: >> >> Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in >> light-hearted >> tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now >> and >> then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me >> can't >> be any worse than what it already is. *smirk* >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He >> learned this >> idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for >> the discussion >> of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "WB" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you >> should. There is >>> a >>> company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility >>> instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it >> because the >>> government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the >>> universal sign of blindness. >>> >>> I really liked reading this post. >>> >>> Will >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called >> the National >>> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber >> glass types with >>> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I >> promptly take >>> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky >> ones with the >>> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. >> Besides, I am now >>> a >>> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >>> >>> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >>> different color? I think the little elastic band is >> mortifying, and short >>> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about >> painting my >>> cane >>> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull >> white, and I guess >>> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll >> paint my cane >>> all >>> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, >> could someone >>> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of >> an accident if >>> my cane were not white? >>> >>> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >>> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >>> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine >> thide. *grin* >>> >>> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look >> for the smooth >>> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe Orozco >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >> their sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv >> erse08%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin >> gjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >> co%40gmail.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4980 (20100328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 28 21:39:37 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 14:39:37 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> Message-ID: <2963EBA6-5903-4599-A259-3D2A3EAA1280@sbcglobal.net> motorist used to use a cedar walking staff instead of a cane, and was told by a cop that, if I was ever in a car accident, it could be claimed that, with my shades on and a staff and not a cane, it could be argued that the motorist didn't know I was blind and didn't take extra care. However, I pointed out that the motorist is always at fault for not yielding to a pedestrian. Cop didn't seem to impressed. So. now we *have* to carry a *white* cane, to define us as being blind in the eyes of the law. A case of the symbol becoming the law. I, too, would much prefer to use something other than a white cane, in the event that I didn't have a guide dog... Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 28 21:51:02 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 14:51:02 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> <01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> Message-ID: I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't understand this. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Sun Mar 28 23:03:15 2010 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 18:03:15 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com> References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com> Message-ID: <20100328230315.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> I think Barbara Pierce uses canes with different color grips to match her outfits. I don't think I would go anything beyond that, though I must admit that in my younger days I had been thinking of getting a silver wolf's head. But that would be too cumbersome, and not very professional looking. Ray Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: unknown AZNOR99 at aol.com To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Sunday, Mar 28, 2010 16:13:57 Subject: Re: [bllaw] Pimp My Cane > > > > Hi Joe, > > How are you? Well, I hope. > > I was very amused in reading your post about pimping your cane. I > honestly don't know the answer to your question. However, I suspect that, given > that most state laws about canes for blind people reference the "white cane" > specifically, you might come across someone who will try to claim the laws > don't apply to you. You also might confuse people. > > However, I suggest you reach out to two Federationists who've used > different colored canes. Stacy Servenka had a really awesome pink cane a few > years back. Mazen Istanbuli, a professor from Illinois, actually had a > gold-plated cane. > > Let me know what you figure out �� I'm thinking of dying my own lavender and > adding really girly sparkles. If nothing else, it'll prevent people from > "accidentally" walking away with my cane at Conventions. > > Regards, > Ronza > > > > > > In a message dated 3/28/2010 4:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > jsorozco at gmail.com writes: > > Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in light-hearted > tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now and > then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me > can't > be any worse than what it already is. ininsmirk* > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at alldd0-comSam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [bllaw] Pimp My Cane > > Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He > learned this > idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for > the discussion > of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "WB" > To: "'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM > Subject: Re: [bllaw] Pimp My Cane > > > > Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you > should. There is > > a > > company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility > > instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it > because the > > government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the > > universal sign of blindness. > > > > I really liked reading this post. > > > > Will > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > Behalf Of Joe Orozco > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM > > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > > Cc: 'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List' > > Subject: [bllaw] Pimp My Cane > > > > Hello all, > > > > Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called > the National > > Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber > glass types with > > the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I > promptly take > > them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky > ones with the > > elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. > Besides, I am now > > a > > dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. > > > > So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a > > different color? I think the little elastic band is > mortifying, and short > > of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about > painting my > > cane > > black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull > white, and I guess > > the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll > paint my cane > > all > > the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, > could someone > > actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of > an accident if > > my cane were not white? > > > > Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of > > multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my > > outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine > thide. iningrin* > > > > Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look > for the smooth > > operator with the brand-new black magic stick. > > > > Best, > > > > Joe Orozco > > > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up > their sleeves, > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at alldd0-comSam Ewing > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature > > database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bllaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > bllaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv > erseblejh%40gma > > il.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bllaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > bllaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin > gjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun Mar 28 22:14:01 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 18:14:01 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn> References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com> <31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Lighten up RJ. steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > David, This is off topic for this list! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 4:47 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> >> Hi Joe, >> >> How are you? Well, I hope. >> >> I was very amused in reading your post about pimping your cane. I >> honestly don't know the answer to your question. However, I suspect >> that, >> given >> that most state laws about canes for blind people reference the "white >> cane" >> specifically, you might come across someone who will try to claim the >> laws >> don't apply to you. You also might confuse people. >> >> However, I suggest you reach out to two Federationists who've used >> different colored canes. Stacy Servenka had a really awesome pink cane a >> few >> years back. Mazen Istanbuli, a professor from Illinois, actually had a >> gold-plated cane. >> >> Let me know what you figure out - I'm thinking of dying my own lavender >> and >> adding really girly sparkles. If nothing else, it'll prevent people from >> "accidentally" walking away with my cane at Conventions. >> >> Regards, >> Ronza >> >> >> >> >> >> In a message dated 3/28/2010 4:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> jsorozco at gmail.com writes: >> >> Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in >> light-hearted >> tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now >> and >> then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me >> can't >> be any worse than what it already is. *smirk* >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He >> learned this >> idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for >> the discussion >> of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "WB" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you >> should. There is >>> a >>> company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility >>> instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it >> because the >>> government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the >>> universal sign of blindness. >>> >>> I really liked reading this post. >>> >>> Will >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called >> the National >>> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber >> glass types with >>> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I >> promptly take >>> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky >> ones with the >>> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. >> Besides, I am now >>> a >>> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >>> >>> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >>> different color? I think the little elastic band is >> mortifying, and short >>> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about >> painting my >>> cane >>> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull >> white, and I guess >>> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll >> paint my cane >>> all >>> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, >> could someone >>> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of >> an accident if >>> my cane were not white? >>> >>> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >>> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >>> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine >> thide. *grin* >>> >>> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look >> for the smooth >>> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe Orozco >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >> their sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv >> erse08%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin >> gjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >> co%40gmail.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4980 (20100328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2776 - Release Date: 03/28/10 18:32:00 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 28 22:16:31 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:16:31 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> Message-ID: that is standard in many jurisdictions. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J. Zufelt" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 4:22 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Good morning, > > In Ontario the white cane is standard, and is arguably reflective in poor > lighting. As a matter of fact, it is a provincial offence to use a white > cane in Ontario if you're not blind. Part of the Blind Persons Rights Act > (a piece of legislation with which I completely disagree). > > Restriction on use of white cane > > 3. No person, other than a blind person, shall carry or use a cane or > walking stick, the major part of which is white, in any public place, > public thoroughfare > or public conveyance. R.S.O. 1990, c. B.7, s. 3. > > Thanks, > Everett Zufelt > http://zufelt.ca > > Follow me on Twitter > http://twitter.com/ezufelt > > View my LinkedIn Profile > http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt > > > > On 2010-03-28, at 5:43 AM, wrote: > >> In many states the White Cane is the only cane that is recognized to show >> that a person is blind. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Cc: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:26 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called the >>> National >>> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber glass types >>> with >>> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I promptly take >>> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky ones with >>> the >>> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. Besides, I am >>> now a >>> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >>> >>> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >>> different color? I think the little elastic band is mortifying, and >>> short >>> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about painting my >>> cane >>> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull white, and I >>> guess >>> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll paint my cane >>> all >>> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, could someone >>> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of an accident >>> if >>> my cane were not white? >>> >>> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >>> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >>> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine thide. *grin* >>> >>> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look for the >>> smooth >>> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe Orozco >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From lists at zufelt.ca Sun Mar 28 22:17:50 2010 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 18:17:50 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn> References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com> <31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <400FDC6C-10A9-44A0-8A14-F572F2519E37@zufelt.ca> Good afternoon, I am pretty sure that here in Canada there would be no law or regulation against using a cane that is not white, and I can't see any negative consequences other than it being even more misunderstood than a white cane is already. The law in Ontario does preserve the white cane for use by the visually impaired. And, for some reason, likely reactionary, we actually have a provincial offence against anyone pretending to be blind in public by using a white cane. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-03-28, at 5:27 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > David, This is off topic for this list! > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 4:47 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> >> Hi Joe, >> >> How are you? Well, I hope. >> >> I was very amused in reading your post about pimping your cane. I >> honestly don't know the answer to your question. However, I suspect that, given >> that most state laws about canes for blind people reference the "white cane" >> specifically, you might come across someone who will try to claim the laws >> don't apply to you. You also might confuse people. >> >> However, I suggest you reach out to two Federationists who've used >> different colored canes. Stacy Servenka had a really awesome pink cane a few >> years back. Mazen Istanbuli, a professor from Illinois, actually had a >> gold-plated cane. >> >> Let me know what you figure out - I'm thinking of dying my own lavender and >> adding really girly sparkles. If nothing else, it'll prevent people from >> "accidentally" walking away with my cane at Conventions. >> >> Regards, >> Ronza >> >> >> >> >> >> In a message dated 3/28/2010 4:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> jsorozco at gmail.com writes: >> >> Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in light-hearted >> tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now and >> then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me >> can't >> be any worse than what it already is. *smirk* >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He >> learned this >> idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for >> the discussion >> of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "WB" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you >> should. There is >>> a >>> company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility >>> instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it >> because the >>> government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the >>> universal sign of blindness. >>> >>> I really liked reading this post. >>> >>> Will >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called >> the National >>> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber >> glass types with >>> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I >> promptly take >>> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky >> ones with the >>> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. >> Besides, I am now >>> a >>> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >>> >>> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >>> different color? I think the little elastic band is >> mortifying, and short >>> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about >> painting my >>> cane >>> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull >> white, and I guess >>> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll >> paint my cane >>> all >>> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, >> could someone >>> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of >> an accident if >>> my cane were not white? >>> >>> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >>> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >>> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine >> thide. *grin* >>> >>> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look >> for the smooth >>> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe Orozco >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >> their sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv >> erse08%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin >> gjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >> co%40gmail.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4980 (20100328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 28 23:20:48 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:20:48 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus><01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> Message-ID: <58B6ABBB531549C7B3245106DC08C975@spike> Where safety and recognition is concerned I fail to understand the rationale of deviating from the accepted standards. This is the equivalent of a local government deciding to develop its own colors of a system for traffic signal lights. There is nno point in making a fashion statement using a recognized symbol. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks > here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that > matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB > rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming > that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," > whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a bunch > of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of > blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can > alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm > blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a > black cane and give no indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a > purely voluntary basis. I just don't understand this. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 28 23:31:56 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:31:56 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <400FDC6C-10A9-44A0-8A14-F572F2519E37@zufelt.ca> References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com><31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn> <400FDC6C-10A9-44A0-8A14-F572F2519E37@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: <6273CD546E674AA5A65FD6FE1D7DE911@spike> When I lived in Michigan it was against the law to impersonate a blind person, not sure about California though. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J. Zufelt" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Good afternoon, > > I am pretty sure that here in Canada there would be no law or regulation > against using a cane that is not white, and I can't see any negative > consequences other than it being even more misunderstood than a white cane > is already. The law in Ontario does preserve the white cane for use by > the visually impaired. And, for some reason, likely reactionary, we > actually have a provincial offence against anyone pretending to be blind > in public by using a white cane. > > > Everett Zufelt > http://zufelt.ca > > Follow me on Twitter > http://twitter.com/ezufelt > > View my LinkedIn Profile > http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt > > > > On 2010-03-28, at 5:27 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > >> David, This is off topic for this list! >> ----- Original Message ----- From: >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 4:47 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> >>> Hi Joe, >>> >>> How are you? Well, I hope. >>> >>> I was very amused in reading your post about pimping your cane. I >>> honestly don't know the answer to your question. However, I suspect >>> that, given >>> that most state laws about canes for blind people reference the "white >>> cane" >>> specifically, you might come across someone who will try to claim the >>> laws >>> don't apply to you. You also might confuse people. >>> >>> However, I suggest you reach out to two Federationists who've used >>> different colored canes. Stacy Servenka had a really awesome pink cane >>> a few >>> years back. Mazen Istanbuli, a professor from Illinois, actually had a >>> gold-plated cane. >>> >>> Let me know what you figure out - I'm thinking of dying my own lavender >>> and >>> adding really girly sparkles. If nothing else, it'll prevent people >>> from >>> "accidentally" walking away with my cane at Conventions. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Ronza >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 3/28/2010 4:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>> jsorozco at gmail.com writes: >>> >>> Thanks all for responding to my serious question veiled in >>> light-hearted >>> tones. I guess I can't completely ditch the white cane, but every now >>> and >>> then...Thanks again, and actually, I'm sure Dr. Maurer's opinion of me >>> can't >>> be any worse than what it already is. *smirk* >>> >>> Joe Orozco >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >>> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:31 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>> >>> Pimp your cane, Disgusting! Marc Maurer, would Vomit! if He >>> learned this >>> idoticy were being discussed! Beside, this List is to be for >>> the discussion >>> of blindness and the Law! Nothing else! RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "WB" >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:33 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>> >>> >>>> Hey Joe. I agree...if you want to paint them, then you >>> should. There is >>>> a >>>> company out there that sales multi-colored canes already. My mobility >>>> instructor told me about them but warned me against buying it >>> because the >>>> government recognizes the white cane with the red handle. That is the >>>> universal sign of blindness. >>>> >>>> I really liked reading this post. >>>> >>>> Will >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:26 PM >>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>> Cc: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>>> >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> Finding myself low on my stash of collapsible canes, I called >>> the National >>>> Center and discovered they no longer carried those fiber >>> glass types with >>>> the chains. I don't actually like the chains. In fact, I >>> promptly take >>>> them off and lose them, and I much prefer these to the dorky >>> ones with the >>>> elastic bands, no offense if you happen to sport these. >>> Besides, I am now >>>> a >>>> dork, because since that's all they had, that's all I got. >>>> >>>> So, my question: Would it really not be acceptable to paint my cane a >>>> different color? I think the little elastic band is >>> mortifying, and short >>>> of replacing the cap with something cooler, I thought about >>> painting my >>>> cane >>>> black or blue or some sweeter combination than the dull >>> white, and I guess >>>> the point is not so much whether this is acceptable. I'll >>> paint my cane >>>> all >>>> the colors of the rainbow if it so moves me, but legally, >>> could someone >>>> actually claim they did not know I was blind in the case of >>> an accident if >>>> my cane were not white? >>>> >>>> Laugh all you want, but I'm thinking of starting a revolution of >>>> multicolored canes. You'll be jealous when I have a cane to match my >>>> outfits! It'th called getting in touch with my feminine >>> thide. *grin* >>>> >>>> Thanks for any serious responses. If we've never met, look >>> for the smooth >>>> operator with the brand-new black magic stick. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Joe Orozco >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >>> their sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 4978 (20100326) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniv >>> erse08%40gma >>>> il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltin >>> gjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >>> co%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>> virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>> virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 4980 (20100328) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From AZNOR99 at aol.com Sun Mar 28 23:57:31 2010 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:57:31 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane Message-ID: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> >From my perspective (and that of NFB training centers), I use a cane for my own purposes, meaning I use it to learn about my environment, navigate curbs and stairs, avoid obstacles, and generally move through the world independently. This aspect has nothing to do with how others recognize the cane, or else I'd be using an ID cane instead of a long white cane. However, we are lawyers afterall, and we therefore examine the laws quite literally. Thus Joe's question is a good one. Given that many of us use the long white cane to navigate through our environment, using it as a tool to learn what's in our paths, wouldn't such a tool be effective no matter what color it was? I'd say it would, and Federationists such as Stacy, Mazen, and Fatosh who runs the Nebraska Adjustment to Blindness Center would agree. However, what are the legal implications of carrying a "long purple cane" under state "white cane laws"? That's a terrific legal question. I think perhaps you misunderstand why the NFB takes the position it does on audible traffic signals and differently sized currency. Our position on hybrid vehicles should provide proof that we are not as rigid as you suggest. In fact, we believe that certain situations may indeed necessitate changes; for example, we lose our ability to travel safely and independently if we can no longer gauge traffic through sound, as hybrid vehicles eliminate that sound. We can however use the sound of moving traffic and other nonvisual techniques to cross streets (putting aside the issue of hybrids) without audible traffic signals. In fact, many of us feel they alter the environment to the point that they are more hindrance than help. Additionally, we've been folding money and using other nonvisual techniques for literally centuries, and it's worked just fine. Our point is that we would oppose changes to the environment in which we live and do not wish others to bear the burden of making changes for us whenever possible. If a system we use works, then why demand that limited government resources be spent on something that will just make us stand out even more despite the fact that we don't need it? We'd rather those resources be spent on providing blind students with an education equal to their sighted counterparts, to reduce the 70+% unemployment rate for the blind, etc. The long white cane is different. We need it to travel safely and independently, and it doesn't alter the environment. The government isn't spending resources to modify anything for us. Yes, it is true that the sighted world has to recognize what a white cane means. But they also have to yield to pedestrians as a rule anyway, so this is no large burden. I hope that answers some of your questions. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 3/28/2010 5:51:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, stone_troll at sbcglobal.net writes: I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't understand this. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 00:21:12 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 18:21:12 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus><01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> <58B6ABBB531549C7B3245106DC08C975@spike> Message-ID: <03B1A3CF0CC649A5A741A2B918951351@azizaLatD430> Other than that it would be fun, and might help some kids and other newly blinded people identify with their canes. I mean, if a child who is six can put stickers of racing cars on his cane, he may be open to carrying it around, that is more open to just a plain white one. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Where safety and recognition is concerned I fail to understand the > rationale of deviating from the accepted standards. This is the equivalent > of a local government deciding to develop its own colors of a system for > traffic signal lights. There is nno point in making a fashion statement > using a recognized symbol. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark BurningHawk" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 2:51 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks >> here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that >> matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB >> rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming >> that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," >> whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a >> bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of >> blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can >> alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm >> blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a >> black cane and give no indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a >> purely voluntary basis. I just don't understand this. >> >> Mark BurningHawk >> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >> Namaste! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 00:33:56 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 20:33:56 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Not Just Your Average Cane In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <04AC544B5C23482BA021D7E070CDA5A4@Rufus> Hi Mark, Having started the thread, I feel compelled to respond to your thoughtful post. It goes without say that people's opinions here do not reflect any official NFB positions, and I honestly doubt the NFB would genuinely care if all its members suddenly decided to sport a wide range of colorfully decorated canes. I think Dr. Maurer would probably find the concept amusing, and doesn't Whozit sport a black cane in our logo? That fellow was far ahead of the curve. For my own part, I'm headed to Michael's sometime soon to embark upon a project to transform my own cane into the walking wonder I know it can be. I think that in doing so I would do well to use a measure of practical sense. Security checkpoints at airports and federal buildings would probably not look kindly on a cane that is different from what is popularly accepted. We can't expect the world to automatically get that blind people have their own sense of pizzazz, and by the same token, we can't expect people to pick up on the fact we're blind at night if using something as obscure as a black cane, even though I agree with the previous subscriber that motorists should respect pedestrians with or without this new breed of eye candy. I'm glad people pointed out the jurisdictions that specifically call for the cane to be white. In asking my question, sarcasm notwithstanding, I was not really setting out to violate laws that are meant to preserve my safety, but I do not want these laws to tuck me away into a label that can be every bit as condescending as terms like "handicapped." If senior citizens can sport all manner of creatively designed walking canes, by golly, I want my own mode of transportation to broadcast my own sense of humor. It's not as if I can smack a bumper sticker on my German shepherd's butt and call it good, although, can you imagine the wide range of clever slogans one could produce with that kind of strategic angle? All of this having been said, I spent nearly a year working on behalf of victims of human trafficking. I learned all about the negative connotations associated with words like "pimping," and for using that term to catch your attention, I am truly sorry. In summation, I think the responses on both lists to which the question went out has been mostly positive. It's no scientific survey, but I think it is at least slightly indicative of the membership's willingness to explore the idea or at least humor my nonsense. People who have given more straight-laced responses are no doubt secretly glad they're not the only ones who thought of this, because original this idea is most certainly not. Let's leave out the references to accessible currency and other controversial topics out of it this time around. We debate those serious issues all the time and should enjoy the all too infrequent light banter. Best, Joe Orozco and the Soon to Be Improved Sir Tap-A-Lot What, as if you haven't ever thought of giving your cane a name??? "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:51 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't understand this. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 01:00:19 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 18:00:19 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> Message-ID: <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the identifying mark by which blind people are known and warn their surroundings that they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is one reason why I want to use a cane that's other than white with a red tip. It is very true that, even with my guide dog, when I wear sunglasses, I am often mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog user. It's like that old left-handed compliment, "No one would know you're blind, you do that so well." That infuriates me when it's said to me. It seems that some here are trying to avoid just this situation--being mistaken for a sighted person--when I should think that was the ultimate goal of any blind person--to blend in and not stand out. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 01:07:19 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 18:07:19 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Not Just Your Average Cane In-Reply-To: <04AC544B5C23482BA021D7E070CDA5A4@Rufus> References: <04AC544B5C23482BA021D7E070CDA5A4@Rufus> Message-ID: <1414E6AB-6B83-46F0-BE4A-7626BC87A5A4@sbcglobal.net> I brought up audible cross walks and currency changes not to debate them, but to use them as comparisons. I don't agree with the NFB position on those issues either, but that's another topic. :) I guess what it comes down to is this: Do you use the cane as a tool for better mobility, or do you use a cane to procure a handicap for yourself? The "you" here being generalized. If you use a cane to tell everyone you're blind and need a handicap, then by all means it should be white and long and visible, etc. If not, use what works for you. I realize that in a professional and pressure-laden field like law, conformity is often quite useful, and I myself, being a creative artist, writer/musician type, tend toward the individualistic and character-expressive end of the spectrum. I, also having a severe to profound hearing loss, might use a white cane precisely because of my own arguments--that if I am using a cane, with my hearing loss, I want to be recognized and noted for my own protection--because I know how horribly I mobilize with a cane--my dog and I do GREAT, and I've often considered customizing his harness a bit--with a mini-pack, for example, for carrying small things, or whatever. The harness is also eminently practical as a tool, as well. Still, one of my dogs, when I lived in a rougher section of Boston, had a spiked leather collar on him as well as his Guiding Eyes choke collar; I was into studs and leather myself at the time. That was my only point. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 01:09:29 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 18:09:29 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <58B6ABBB531549C7B3245106DC08C975@spike> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus><01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> <58B6ABBB531549C7B3245106DC08C975@spike> Message-ID: <946E4055-0B2F-4954-AF02-8C6E30EBBB94@sbcglobal.net> \You desire to be recognized as blind by the use of your cane; people act accordingly toward you having recognized you. You are asking for a handicap. That's fine, but recognizing it as such may (or may not) be useful to you. Personally, having lived in some of the rougher sections of the country, I'd rather have a cane that's also a good weapon--blade hidden inside, sturdier construction, better grip, balance, etc.--than a cane that was flimsy but white. It also makes you an easier target. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 01:17:17 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 20:17:17 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <58B6ABBB531549C7B3245106DC08C975@spike> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus><01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> <58B6ABBB531549C7B3245106DC08C975@spike> Message-ID: <001101cacedd$934928a0$b9db79e0$@com> It seems that this conversation started as a very light topic, but again, people begin to whine. If a person chooses to make a fashion statement with a cane, then that's their right to...no rationality is needed for anyone but that particular person. I also do agree that some organizations choose to speak for all blind people when I was never part of any survey of the blind. Everyone in here, or most, are in the legal field and understand the legalities of the white cane. If we only stayed with what is recognized in the moment....boy, what kind of horrible country we would be. Just my little two cents. BTW....I want to put a bow tie and a dress shoe on my cane. I think it's so stylish! In Fun and Without Malice, Will -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 6:21 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane Where safety and recognition is concerned I fail to understand the rationale of deviating from the accepted standards. This is the equivalent of a local government deciding to develop its own colors of a system for traffic signal lights. There is nno point in making a fashion statement using a recognized symbol. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks > here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that > matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB > rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming > that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," > whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a bunch > of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of > blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can > alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm > blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a > black cane and give no indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a > purely voluntary basis. I just don't understand this. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Mon Mar 29 04:01:42 2010 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:01:42 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> Message-ID: <777694D4AC2B493A98792E4541A98D35@valtd> Hello Ronza: You wrote in part: "we've been folding money and using other nonvisual techniques for literally centuries, and it's worked just fine." Then I wonder why the idea of using a money identifier is not frowned upon by the NFB? I'd certainly like to be able to identify the paper dollar bill without having to fold it. This is so true in a commercial environment where I am running a retail store and where customers DO NOT have the time or patience to wait for me to fold the bill a certain way as it is handed to me. I hope the Treasury Department implements the court's orders pretty quick; otherwise, when my dollar bill identifier packs up, I will be in real trouble at my retail store. Making it easy to identify the paper dollar bill saves me time; I will NO LONGER have to send my equipment in for recalibration when the fine prints on the paper bill are changed. As for a cane with different colors, I've often tinkered with that prospect. As my Holy Book tells me, "Law is made for man and not the other way around" sorry my paraphrase may be a bit out of whack, but you get the idea! I am of the opinion that the law that COMPELS ME to carry a white cane needs close scrutiny and perhaps there are aspects of it pleading for a joyous change! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 05:51:47 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:51:47 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <6273CD546E674AA5A65FD6FE1D7DE911@spike> References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com><31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn> <400FDC6C-10A9-44A0-8A14-F572F2519E37@zufelt.ca> <6273CD546E674AA5A65FD6FE1D7DE911@spike> Message-ID: Ummm, hello? There's a *LOT* more to "impersonating a blind person," than carrying a white cane. I defy anyone who is sighted to pull that off well enough to fool a blind person. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 08:45:33 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 01:45:33 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com><31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn><400FDC6C-10A9-44A0-8A14-F572F2519E37@zufelt.ca><6273CD546E674AA5A65FD6FE1D7DE911@spike> Message-ID: <188D6871A4EF4375A82300F3AE12084A@spike> in cases where it is done its usually done to fool sighted people as a means to get money or services or playing on the sympathies of the unaware public. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Ummm, hello? There's a *LOT* more to "impersonating a blind person," than > carrying a white cane. I defy anyone who is sighted to pull that off > well enough to fool a blind person. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 29 09:59:38 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 05:59:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Suppose you are running into people without your cane--they may think you are being smart, retarded or drunk. People, guys in general, do not liked to be bumped. That could cause you to be grabbed or punched. At best, you certainly will get some stern looks. Better to have people know you have a visual impairment. Steve-- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, > recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to > identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being > unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was > put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they > may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as > blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not > being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I > am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems > to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. > For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane > becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the identifying > mark by which blind people are known and warn their surroundings that > they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is one reason why I want > to use a cane that's other than white with a red tip. It is very true > that, even with my guide dog, when I wear sunglasses, I am often > mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog user. It's like that old > left-handed compliment, "No one would know you're blind, you do that > so well." That infuriates me when it's said to me. It seems that > some here are trying to avoid just this situation--being mistaken for > a sighted person--when I should think that was the ultimate goal of > any blind person--to blend in and not stand out. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2776 - Release Date: 03/28/10 18:32:00 From goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 13:05:08 2010 From: goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net (Sarah Clark) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 06:05:08 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com><31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn><400FDC6C-10A9-44A0-8A14-F572F2519E37@zufelt.ca><6273CD546E674AA5A65FD6FE1D7DE911@spike> Message-ID: <10b701cacf40$7538e540$6701a8c0@computer2> Actually it would be pretty easy to fool a blind person -- they can't see what the person is doing and how well or poorly the person is pulling it off. The more difficult thing is to fool a sighted person that is very accustomed to how a blind person operates, i.e. a sighted spouse of a blind person. I have heard of at least a couple of instances of people doing this. Personally I don't see the benefit, but clearly they are getting something out of it, in a defective sort of way. Sarah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Ummm, hello? There's a *LOT* more to "impersonating a blind person," than > carrying a white cane. I defy anyone who is sighted to pull that off > well enough to fool a blind person. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/goldflash9%40sbcglobal.net From r.g.munro at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 13:34:32 2010 From: r.g.munro at gmail.com (Robert Munro) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:34:32 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Not Just Your Average Cane In-Reply-To: <04AC544B5C23482BA021D7E070CDA5A4@Rufus> References: <04AC544B5C23482BA021D7E070CDA5A4@Rufus> Message-ID: <681461F9-E6FD-4865-8E88-F93432A6153F@gmail.com> The best name for a cane I ever heard came from a guy named Paul in Colorado. He called his cane Edith, an acronym for Extended Device for Identification by Touch of Hazards. On Mar 28, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Hi Mark, > > Having started the thread, I feel compelled to respond to your thoughtful > post. It goes without say that people's opinions here do not reflect any > official NFB positions, and I honestly doubt the NFB would genuinely care if > all its members suddenly decided to sport a wide range of colorfully > decorated canes. I think Dr. Maurer would probably find the concept > amusing, and doesn't Whozit sport a black cane in our logo? That fellow was > far ahead of the curve. > > For my own part, I'm headed to Michael's sometime soon to embark upon a > project to transform my own cane into the walking wonder I know it can be. > I think that in doing so I would do well to use a measure of practical > sense. Security checkpoints at airports and federal buildings would > probably not look kindly on a cane that is different from what is popularly > accepted. We can't expect the world to automatically get that blind people > have their own sense of pizzazz, and by the same token, we can't expect > people to pick up on the fact we're blind at night if using something as > obscure as a black cane, even though I agree with the previous subscriber > that motorists should respect pedestrians with or without this new breed of > eye candy. > > I'm glad people pointed out the jurisdictions that specifically call for the > cane to be white. In asking my question, sarcasm notwithstanding, I was not > really setting out to violate laws that are meant to preserve my safety, but > I do not want these laws to tuck me away into a label that can be every bit > as condescending as terms like "handicapped." If senior citizens can sport > all manner of creatively designed walking canes, by golly, I want my own > mode of transportation to broadcast my own sense of humor. It's not as if I > can smack a bumper sticker on my German shepherd's butt and call it good, > although, can you imagine the wide range of clever slogans one could produce > with that kind of strategic angle? > > All of this having been said, I spent nearly a year working on behalf of > victims of human trafficking. I learned all about the negative connotations > associated with words like "pimping," and for using that term to catch your > attention, I am truly sorry. > > In summation, I think the responses on both lists to which the question went > out has been mostly positive. It's no scientific survey, but I think it is > at least slightly indicative of the membership's willingness to explore the > idea or at least humor my nonsense. People who have given more > straight-laced responses are no doubt secretly glad they're not the only > ones who thought of this, because original this idea is most certainly not. > Let's leave out the references to accessible currency and other > controversial topics out of it this time around. We debate those serious > issues all the time and should enjoy the all too infrequent light banter. > > Best, > > Joe Orozco and the Soon to Be Improved Sir Tap-A-Lot > > What, as if you haven't ever thought of giving your cane a name??? > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:51 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks > here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for > that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the > NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, > claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind > "want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I > hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a > symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so > that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of > the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB > might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of > blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't > understand this. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gmail.com From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Mon Mar 29 15:38:12 2010 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:38:12 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Not Just Your Average Cane In-Reply-To: <681461F9-E6FD-4865-8E88-F93432A6153F@gmail.com> References: <04AC544B5C23482BA021D7E070CDA5A4@Rufus> <681461F9-E6FD-4865-8E88-F93432A6153F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100329153812.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> That's a bit of a stretch! Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Munro To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Date: Monday, Mar 29, 2010 9:32:10 Subject: Re: [bllaw] Not Just Your Average Cane > > > The best name for a cane I ever heard came from a guy named Paul in Colorado. He called his cane Edith, an acronym for Extended Device for Identification by Touch of Hazards. > On Mar 28, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > > > Hi Mark, > > > > Having started the thread, I feel compelled to respond to your thoughtful > > post. It goes without say that people's opinions here do not reflect any > > official NFB positions, and I honestly doubt the NFB would genuinely care if > > all its members suddenly decided to sport a wide range of colorfully > > decorated canes. I think Dr. Maurer would probably find the concept > > amusing, and doesn't Whozit sport a black cane in our logo? That fellow was > > far ahead of the curve. > > > > For my own part, I'm headed to Michael's sometime soon to embark upon a > > project to transform my own cane into the walking wonder I know it can be. > > I think that in doing so I would do well to use a measure of practical > > sense. Security checkpoints at airports and federal buildings would > > probably not look kindly on a cane that is different from what is popularly > > accepted. We can't expect the world to automatically get that blind people > > have their own sense of pizzazz, and by the same token, we can't expect > > people to pick up on the fact we're blind at night if using something as > > obscure as a black cane, even though I agree with the previous subscriber > > that motorists should respect pedestrians with or without this new breed of > > eye candy. > > > > I'm glad people pointed out the jurisdictions that specifically call for the > > cane to be white. In asking my question, sarcasm notwithstanding, I was not > > really setting out to violate laws that are meant to preserve my safety, but > > I do not want these laws to tuck me away into a label that can be every bit > > as condescending as terms like "handicapped." If senior citizens can sport > > all manner of creatively designed walking canes, by golly, I want my own > > mode of transportation to broadcast my own sense of humor. It's not as if I > > can smack a bumper sticker on my German shepherd's butt and call it good, > > although, can you imagine the wide range of clever slogans one could produce > > with that kind of strategic angle? > > > > All of this having been said, I spent nearly a year working on behalf of > > victims of human trafficking. I learned all about the negative connotations > > associated with words like "pimping," and for using that term to catch your > > attention, I am truly sorry. > > > > In summation, I think the responses on both lists to which the question went > > out has been mostly positive. It's no scientific survey, but I think it is > > at least slightly indicative of the membership's willingness to explore the > > idea or at least humor my nonsense. People who have given more > > straight-laced responses are no doubt secretly glad they're not the only > > ones who thought of this, because original this idea is most certainly not. > > Let's leave out the references to accessible currency and other > > controversial topics out of it this time around. We debate those serious > > issues all the time and should enjoy the all too infrequent light banter. > > > > Best, > > > > Joe Orozco and the Soon to Be Improved Sir Tap-A-Lot > > > > What, as if you haven't ever thought of giving your cane a name??? > > > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at alldd0-comSam Ewing > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk > > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:51 PM > > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [bllaw] Pimp My Cane > > > > I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks > > here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for > > that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the > > NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, > > claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind > > "want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I > > hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a > > symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so > > that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of > > the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB > > might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of > > blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't > > understand this. > > > > Mark BurningHawk > > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > > Namaste! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bllaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info for bllaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > > co%40gmail.com > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > > virus signature database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > > database 4980 (20100328) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bllaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 14:54:59 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 07:54:59 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> Even better to be skilled enough that you don't need people to know you need their handicap to get by. I don't need people to watch out for me because I"m blind; the thought is repugnant. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 29 16:54:50 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:54:50 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> You don't want others to be injured by your mistakes, do you? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Even better to be skilled enough that you don't need people to know > you need their handicap to get by. I don't need people to watch out > for me because I"m blind; the thought is repugnant. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/29/10 06:32:00 From bnaccari at cox.net Mon Mar 29 19:08:30 2010 From: bnaccari at cox.net (Bruce E. Naccari) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:08:30 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Adorn the unused strap not your cane Message-ID: <20100329150830.OD908.960588.imail@eastrmwml41> As former Legal Counsel to New Orleans Human Relations Commission, I used to teach classes on the White Cane Safety laws and anti-discrimination laws affecting public accommodations to police recruits and police officers studying to be examined for possible promotions. At least here in the Isle d’Orleans, it is hard enough as it is to get peace officers to understand and enforce and the public to obey these laws. The long white cane clearly identifies those who are entitled to the intended safety and social participation benefits of these laws. In my opinion any alterations or adornments that change the white cane itself will only lead to confusion and make compliance and comprehension and enforcement even less likely in the long run. But: may I suggest, if you don’t’ use the strap, why not use it too individuate or adorn your cane? Depending on your taste, you might append to the cane strap but not the cane itself any number of sorts of things : bear bells, religious pendants, Native American medicine bags or feathers, a reticule like HRH Elizabeth II’s, ludicrous rearview mirror hanging baubles, bows, medallions—and this will leave your cane itself an unequivocal and legally-significant and reflective white. If I were you though I would not append anything from the strap that makes annoying clanking sounds as it hits the cane during walking movement or in places like theatres restaurants, places of worship, etc. And anything too heavy on the strap will destroy the usual balance of your cane and make it give less intelligible information to you. I have used cane straps in this way during New Orleans Carnival celebrations but not at other times; and whatever bells and decorations I hung from the strap left my long white cane the clearly white it should be. From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 19:46:09 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:46:09 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <51428.3cedfd45.38e11a79@aol.com><31E9E86DAFAB403E89989AEB59762EB7@hometwxakonvzn><400FDC6C-10A9-44A0-8A14-F572F2519E37@zufelt.ca><6273CD546E674AA5A65FD6FE1D7DE911@spike> <10b701cacf40$7538e540$6701a8c0@computer2> Message-ID: <7BDA22C8300645E08105D3083D039AC0@azizaLatD430> Not necessarily. Sighted people do things that just make you know their sighted, like point, wave, exclaim over the color of something, without realizing it. It would take a lot of discipline for a sighted person who doesn't know much about blindness to pull it off... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Clark" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 7:05 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Actually it would be pretty easy to fool a blind person -- they can't see > what the person is doing and how well or poorly the person is pulling it > off. The more difficult thing is to fool a sighted person that is very > accustomed to how a blind person operates, i.e. a sighted spouse of a > blind person. I have heard of at least a couple of instances of people > doing this. > Personally I don't see the benefit, but clearly they are getting something > out of it, in a defective sort of way. > > Sarah > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark BurningHawk" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:51 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> Ummm, hello? There's a *LOT* more to "impersonating a blind person," >> than carrying a white cane. I defy anyone who is sighted to pull that >> off well enough to fool a blind person. >> >> Mark BurningHawk >> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >> Namaste! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/goldflash9%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 19:48:55 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:48:55 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net><9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: That's the whole purpose of carrying an identifiable cane. Its basically to alert the surrounding community of a blind person's presence. This is no different than a truck beeping when it is backing up. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > You don't want others to be injured by your mistakes, do you? > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark BurningHawk" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 10:54 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> Even better to be skilled enough that you don't need people to know >> you need their handicap to get by. I don't need people to watch out >> for me because I"m blind; the thought is repugnant. >> >> Mark BurningHawk >> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >> Namaste! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/29/10 > 06:32:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 19:50:32 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:50:32 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <413FBF60AAAD46188A584234E9C73595@azizaLatD430> In my oppinion, the usefullness of my cane is this, and only this. It helps me travel safely and independently. I do not care if people know I'm blind or not. In fact, although I am perfectly comfortable with my blindness, and proud of it too, I'd rather people not identify me as blind on sight. I am not the Blind girl, I am a girl who happens to be blind. If my blindness is what people see first, the misconceptions are likely to take root deeper than they would if the people saw my personality and abilities before they saw the extent of my lack of vission. Aziza ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 3:59 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Suppose you are running into people without your cane--they may think you > are being smart, retarded or drunk. People, guys in general, do not liked > to be bumped. That could cause you to be grabbed or punched. At best, > you certainly will get some stern looks. Better to have people know you > have a visual impairment. > Steve-- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark BurningHawk" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:00 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, >> recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to >> identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being >> unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was >> put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they >> may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as >> blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not >> being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I >> am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems >> to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. >> For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane >> becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the identifying >> mark by which blind people are known and warn their surroundings that >> they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is one reason why I want >> to use a cane that's other than white with a red tip. It is very true >> that, even with my guide dog, when I wear sunglasses, I am often >> mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog user. It's like that old >> left-handed compliment, "No one would know you're blind, you do that >> so well." That infuriates me when it's said to me. It seems that >> some here are trying to avoid just this situation--being mistaken for >> a sighted person--when I should think that was the ultimate goal of >> any blind person--to blend in and not stand out. >> >> Mark BurningHawk >> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >> Namaste! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2776 - Release Date: 03/28/10 > 18:32:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 29 19:51:16 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:51:16 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Adorn the unused strap not your cane In-Reply-To: <20100329150830.OD908.960588.imail@eastrmwml41> References: <20100329150830.OD908.960588.imail@eastrmwml41> Message-ID: Great e-mail Bruce! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce E. Naccari" To: Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 3:08 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Adorn the unused strap not your cane > As former Legal Counsel to New Orleans Human Relations Commission, I used > to teach classes on the White Cane Safety laws and anti-discrimination > laws affecting public accommodations to police recruits and police > officers studying to be examined for possible promotions. At least here > in the Isle d’Orleans, it is hard enough as it is to get peace officers > to understand and enforce and the public to obey these laws. The long > white cane clearly identifies those who are entitled to the intended > safety and social participation benefits of these laws. In my opinion any > alterations or adornments that change the white cane itself will only > lead to confusion and make compliance and comprehension and enforcement > even less likely in the long run. But: may I suggest, if you don’t’ use > the strap, why not use it too individuate or adorn your cane? Depending > on your taste, you might append to the cane strap but not the cane > itself any number of sorts of things : bear bells, religious pendants, > Native American medicine bags or feathers, a reticule like HRH Elizabeth > II’s, ludicrous rearview mirror hanging baubles, bows, medallions—and > this will leave your cane itself an unequivocal and legally-significant > and reflective white. If I were you though I would not append anything > from the strap that makes annoying clanking sounds as it hits the cane > during walking movement or in places like theatres restaurants, places > of worship, etc. And anything too heavy on the strap will destroy the > usual balance of your cane and make it give less intelligible information > to you. I have used cane straps in this way during New Orleans Carnival > celebrations but not at other times; and whatever bells and decorations I > hung from the strap left my long white cane the clearly white it should > be. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/29/10 06:32:00 From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 20:05:27 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:05:27 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net><9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net><861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: Yes it is. The truck doesn't beep all the time, and a backing up truck unnoticed can be hazardous. A blind person walking down the block, entering a building or anything else is not hazardous, unless someone trips over them, in which case, the cane user either needs more training, or the sighted person need to watch where he's going. Aziza ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > That's the whole purpose of carrying an identifiable cane. Its basically > to alert the surrounding community of a blind person's presence. This is > no different than a truck beeping when it is backing up. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 9:54 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> You don't want others to be injured by your mistakes, do you? >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark BurningHawk" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 10:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> Even better to be skilled enough that you don't need people to know >>> you need their handicap to get by. I don't need people to watch out >>> for me because I"m blind; the thought is repugnant. >>> >>> Mark BurningHawk >>> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >>> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >>> Namaste! >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/29/10 >> 06:32:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 20:33:45 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:33:45 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: This implies that I will make such mistakes; in my 40 years of dog and cane use, admittedly largely dog use, I have never "injured," someone. I don't like the insinuation that a blind person, myself or anyone else, is a liability; if they are, they need to work on skills through whatever channels they prefer. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 21:12:17 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:12:17 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net><9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net><861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: <4B03979023384E3ABD41041E2D7D2F5F@spike> Perhaps its my age and experience but I have nothing to prove by not having the cane notify and protect the public from any unforeseen consequences. Perhaps we need to get on with real life issues instead of living in a make believe world. I for one believe that I have a responsibility to the public just as a driver of a vehicle would have the same responsibility to a pedestrian. I also have more important things to do in life than bucking the system for the sake of doing so and making fashion statements. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aziza Cano" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Yes it is. The truck doesn't beep all the time, and a backing up truck > unnoticed can be hazardous. A blind person walking down the block, > entering a building or anything else is not hazardous, unless someone > trips over them, in which case, the cane user either needs more training, > or the sighted person need to watch where he's going. > Aziza > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 1:48 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> That's the whole purpose of carrying an identifiable cane. Its basically >> to alert the surrounding community of a blind person's presence. This is >> no different than a truck beeping when it is backing up. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 9:54 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> You don't want others to be injured by your mistakes, do you? >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mark BurningHawk" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 10:54 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>> >>> >>>> Even better to be skilled enough that you don't need people to know >>>> you need their handicap to get by. I don't need people to watch out >>>> for me because I"m blind; the thought is repugnant. >>>> >>>> Mark BurningHawk >>>> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >>>> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >>>> Namaste! >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/29/10 >>> 06:32:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 21:23:46 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:23:46 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net><9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net><861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: Even with perfect training and mobility skills there is always the potential for an accident to happen. I think its a question of common sense here and the need to take precautions rather than proving a point that could result in a disruption of a person's life due to an injury. I guess being born blind and accomplishing what I'vwe needed to I don't feel the need to make this an issue in my life or those of others. Having a background in psychology it is sometimes that the ones who protest the loudest about something sometimes have the greatest insecurities. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > This implies that I will make such mistakes; in my 40 years of dog and > cane use, admittedly largely dog use, I have never "injured," someone. I > don't like the insinuation that a blind person, myself or anyone else, is > a liability; if they are, they need to work on skills through whatever > channels they prefer. > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 21:38:09 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:38:09 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net><9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: Funny; I thought the cane was a mobility tool, not an advertisement of blindness. Why not just wear a sandwich sign saying, "BLind; need your tacit cooperation in preserving the illusion of my independence while shielding me from the real world with your handicap," around your neck. then people can lead you around by the hand and spoon-feed you reality as long as you wear the sign. The "you," here is generalized, I am not insulting just one person with this rant, but all people who don't use the cane as it was meant, but instead to promote the helplessness of blind people. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 29 21:55:22 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 17:55:22 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: You bump into someone and they don't know you are blind, you might get clocked. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > This implies that I will make such mistakes; in my 40 years of dog and > cane use, admittedly largely dog use, I have never "injured," > someone. I don't like the insinuation that a blind person, myself or > anyone else, is a liability; if they are, they need to work on skills > through whatever channels they prefer. > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2778 - Release Date: 03/29/10 18:32:00 From joramsey at cox.net Mon Mar 29 22:07:40 2010 From: joramsey at cox.net (John Ramsey) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 18:07:40 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <413FBF60AAAD46188A584234E9C73595@azizaLatD430> Message-ID: <690C088BC25C4E719956E192FBC369FE@noneeb869fea9a> Can we at least change the title of the thread? I hate to bring on the groans that RJ received but this thing has gone beyond ridiculous. John A. Ramsey Jr., P.A. P.O. Box 6063 Gainesville, FL 32627 Phone: (352) 505-6642 Fax: (352) 240-6453 This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) 505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our control. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aziza Cano Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 3:51 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In my oppinion, the usefullness of my cane is this, and only this. It helps me travel safely and independently. I do not care if people know I'm blind or not. In fact, although I am perfectly comfortable with my blindness, and proud of it too, I'd rather people not identify me as blind on sight. I am not the Blind girl, I am a girl who happens to be blind. If my blindness is what people see first, the misconceptions are likely to take root deeper than they would if the people saw my personality and abilities before they saw the extent of my lack of vission. Aziza ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 3:59 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Suppose you are running into people without your cane--they may think > you > are being smart, retarded or drunk. People, guys in general, do not liked > to be bumped. That could cause you to be grabbed or punched. At best, > you certainly will get some stern looks. Better to have people know you > have a visual impairment. > Steve-- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark BurningHawk" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:00 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, >> recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to >> identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being >> unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was >> put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they >> may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as >> blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not >> being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I >> am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems >> to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. >> For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane >> becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the >> identifying mark by which blind people are known and warn their >> surroundings that they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is >> one reason why I want to use a cane that's other than white with a >> red tip. It is very true that, even with my guide dog, when I wear >> sunglasses, I am often mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog >> user. It's like that old left-handed compliment, "No one would know >> you're blind, you do that so well." That infuriates me when it's >> said to me. It seems that some here are trying to avoid just this >> situation--being mistaken for a sighted person--when I should think >> that was the ultimate goal of any blind person--to blend in and not >> stand out. >> >> Mark BurningHawk >> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >> Namaste! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2776 - Release Date: > 03/28/10 > 18:32:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor% 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Mon Mar 29 22:43:01 2010 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 18:43:01 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus><01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> Message-ID: <64716459B89847DD9053C871AE5141EF@Scorpio13> Hi Mark, With due respect, I think you are misunderstanding the NFB's philosophy and some of our positions. The NFB didn't oppose audible signals, or the lawsuit seeking identifiable money, because we don't believe that blind people need accommodations. What we believe is that blind people ought to have the tools and receive the accommodations that are necessary, not just every conceivable accommodation. Now, you may well disagree with us on what accommodations are necessary, and that is all well and good. Even our own members don't always agree on everything, but we take a vote on the issues we disagree on and once a position has been voted on we stick with it until there is a vote to change it. The white cane is a tool that many blind people have found useful, primarily because it helps us get around. A guide dog is useful to other blind people for the same reason. In the NFB we generally believe that a blind person should be able to have access to these tools and make choices about the ones they will use. Symbolically, the white cane is important because it means we believe it is respectable to be blind, but that's not the only or even the primary reason to carry one. If one has some vision, a white cane may be useful and will certainly avoid misunderstandings arising from not being able to see very well. That said, of course being identified as blind has its down sides. A lot of us have decided that the benefits of carrying a cane outweigh those down sides. In a speech on the nature of independence, our long-time president Kenneth Jernigan pointed out that the white cane and Braille are simply tools that can make a person independent and that many blind people find useful. But he warned us against defining whether a person was independent based on whether or not they chose to use any given tool. Sometimes all of us forget this warning, but I still think it is generally what we believe. We do push for things like Braille literacy and cane training because those who are blind or have low vision should know what all of their options are. It's fine to make a choice, but we believe it should be an informed choice, and not one that is merely made because one doesn't want to seem blind because of society's attitude about blindness. Beyond that, the choice is up to the individual blind person. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:51 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't understand this. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4983 (20100329) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4983 (20100329) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Mon Mar 29 22:47:17 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:47:17 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <690C088BC25C4E719956E192FBC369FE@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: <7B817CDCDEEA47E693DB9D6730E84DBC@labarre> I respectfully suggest that we have "caned" this conversation to death. At times we have strayed far afield of the purpose of this list. Thanks to all who have registered their thoughts. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ramsey" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Can we at least change the title of the thread? I hate to bring on the > groans that RJ received but this thing has gone beyond ridiculous. > > John A. Ramsey Jr., P.A. > > P.O. Box 6063 > > Gainesville, FL 32627 > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > Fax: (352) 240-6453 > > This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or > legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or > entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication > in > error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed > materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be > aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this > communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or > civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, > John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are > uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to > communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) > 505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that > email > messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our > control. Thank you. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Aziza Cano > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 3:51 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > > In my oppinion, the usefullness of my cane is this, and only this. It > helps > me travel safely and independently. I do not care if people know I'm blind > or not. In fact, although I am perfectly comfortable with my blindness, > and > proud of it too, I'd rather people not identify me as blind on sight. I am > not the Blind girl, I am a girl who happens to be blind. If my blindness > is > what people see first, the misconceptions are likely to take root deeper > than they would if the people saw my personality and abilities before they > saw the extent of my lack of vission. > Aziza > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 3:59 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> Suppose you are running into people without your cane--they may think >> you >> are being smart, retarded or drunk. People, guys in general, do not >> liked > >> to be bumped. That could cause you to be grabbed or punched. At best, >> you certainly will get some stern looks. Better to have people know you >> have a visual impairment. >> Steve-- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark BurningHawk" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, >>> recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to >>> identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being >>> unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was >>> put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they >>> may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as >>> blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not >>> being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I >>> am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems >>> to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. >>> For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane >>> becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the >>> identifying mark by which blind people are known and warn their >>> surroundings that they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is >>> one reason why I want to use a cane that's other than white with a >>> red tip. It is very true that, even with my guide dog, when I wear >>> sunglasses, I am often mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog >>> user. It's like that old left-handed compliment, "No one would know >>> you're blind, you do that so well." That infuriates me when it's >>> said to me. It seems that some here are trying to avoid just this >>> situation--being mistaken for a sighted person--when I should think >>> that was the ultimate goal of any blind person--to blend in and not >>> stand out. >>> >>> Mark BurningHawk >>> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >>> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >>> Namaste! >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2776 - Release Date: >> 03/28/10 >> 18:32:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor% > 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 29 22:48:34 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 18:48:34 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: I think you are getting carried away with this point. If you are carrying a cane for navigation and mobility, don't you think that individuals will put it together that you are blind. In tern, the individual may be a little more careful around a blind traveler , especially if the person is driving a car. And, if you are walking in a crowd and accidently bump someone, they will see the cane and know you meant no harm. That may save you from getting punched. Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Funny; I thought the cane was a mobility tool, not an advertisement of > blindness. Why not just wear a sandwich sign saying, "BLind; need > your tacit cooperation in preserving the illusion of my independence > while shielding me from the real world with your handicap," around > your neck. then people can lead you around by the hand and spoon-feed > you reality as long as you wear the sign. The "you," here is > generalized, I am not insulting just one person with this rant, but > all people who don't use the cane as it was meant, but instead to > promote the helplessness of blind people. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2778 - Release Date: 03/29/10 18:32:00 From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 22:48:32 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:48:32 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net><9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net><861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: <1686D973-88E1-4ACB-85E6-C27F5E5CE2C6@sbcglobal.net> Oh cut that out. I was born blind, too, and I don't have insecurities about injuring someone; I've never been responsible for anyone else's injury that I didn't mean to, so stop making it personal when I'm trying to keep it general. Blindness is *NOT* a liability any more than clumsiness or large feet. Having bright red hair can e a distraction which can cause injury to someone who sees it. I protest loudly the idea that blind people, especially high-end, intelligent, lawyer-type blind people accept the fact that they may injure someone more readily than a sighted person with two left feet might. When I see professionals who are blind accepting this shame instead of actively working to correct it, I am sad because this attitude will trickle down to disrupt my life when I do something unconventional. So knock off that psychology crap, please; I use a guide dog, not a cane anyway. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 29 22:49:15 2010 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 18:49:15 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <4B03979023384E3ABD41041E2D7D2F5F@spike> References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> <4B03979023384E3ABD41041E2D7D2F5F@spike> Message-ID: You are right on that one! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Perhaps its my age and experience but I have nothing to prove by not > having > the cane notify and protect the public from any unforeseen consequences. > Perhaps we need to get on with real life issues instead of living in a > make > believe world. I for one believe that I have a responsibility to the > public > just as a driver of a vehicle would have the same responsibility to a > pedestrian. I also have more important things to do in life than bucking > the > system for the sake of doing so and making fashion statements. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aziza Cano" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 1:05 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > >> Yes it is. The truck doesn't beep all the time, and a backing up truck >> unnoticed can be hazardous. A blind person walking down the block, >> entering a building or anything else is not hazardous, unless someone >> trips over them, in which case, the cane user either needs more training, >> or the sighted person need to watch where he's going. >> Aziza >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 1:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >>> That's the whole purpose of carrying an identifiable cane. Its basically >>> to alert the surrounding community of a blind person's presence. This >>> is >>> no different than a truck beeping when it is backing up. >>> Chuck >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 9:54 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>> >>> >>>> You don't want others to be injured by your mistakes, do you? >>>> Steve >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Mark BurningHawk" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 10:54 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >>>> >>>> >>>>> Even better to be skilled enough that you don't need people to know >>>>> you need their handicap to get by. I don't need people to watch out >>>>> for me because I"m blind; the thought is repugnant. >>>>> >>>>> Mark BurningHawk >>>>> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >>>>> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >>>>> Namaste! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: >>>> 03/29/10 >>>> 06:32:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2778 - Release Date: 03/29/10 18:32:00 From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 22:49:46 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:49:46 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <4B03979023384E3ABD41041E2D7D2F5F@spike> References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net><9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net><861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> <4B03979023384E3ABD41041E2D7D2F5F@spike> Message-ID: Blindness is *NOT* nor should it be viewed as something to "protect," anyone from! I'm afraid that blind people who feel this way will make of all blind people a pariah. Badly constructed sentence, but you know what I mean. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 22:56:19 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:56:19 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <64716459B89847DD9053C871AE5141EF@Scorpio13> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus><01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> <64716459B89847DD9053C871AE5141EF@Scorpio13> Message-ID: <088E1028-C838-4B53-B5A2-CEED2FD2B178@sbcglobal.net> I don't believe I ever said "don't carry a cane because it makes you look blind." I am not arguing the use of the cane as a tool. My use of a black lab instead of a white cane doesn't make me look any less blind, nor am I speaking from a position of shame. What I disagree with strongly is the need for blind people to carry a white cane merely as an identifier. It's analogous, albeit very roughly, to being forced to wear an arm band because of race or religion--just to avoid misunderstandings due to light skin color. If that arm band were a tool, I wouldn't quibble with that; the white cane as a sort of "lepper's mark," to warn the sighted about the blind does no one any good in the long run. If you're a great cane user and it's an effective tool for you, then by all means, knock yourselves out. I would say the same thing to a guide dog user who just "brought the pup along so people know I'm blind and cause he's cute." Please, please try and understand my position and that I'm not on a tirade against the cane. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 22:57:03 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:57:03 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: Believe me; were that to happen, I am quite able to defend myself. If someone hits me just for bumping into them, they're not going to stop and notice a white cane. If you're that afraid of being hit, learn to defend yourself. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 22:58:27 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:58:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> Message-ID: If you're hiding behind your cane to keep form getting hit, as above, I recommend self defense rather than living in fear. as I also said in another post, I'm not trying to avoid "looking blind," or hiding my blindness; hell, I used to wear a blue glass eyeball as an earring, and I'd joke that "It's the only eye I have that does what it's supposed to." Hiding behind a white cane does no one any good. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 22:59:12 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:59:12 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <7B817CDCDEEA47E693DB9D6730E84DBC@labarre> References: <690C088BC25C4E719956E192FBC369FE@noneeb869fea9a> <7B817CDCDEEA47E693DB9D6730E84DBC@labarre> Message-ID: <75DBBDFB-717F-4C33-82B8-7082F16FA89A@sbcglobal.net> Sorry for the posts before I saw this one; no more from me on list; anyone who wants to keep talking, my contacts are below. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 29 23:10:08 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:10:08 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net><9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net><861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC><4B03979023384E3ABD41041E2D7D2F5F@spike> Message-ID: The reality that we as blind people have to face as does anyone in any minority group is that there are some in that group that make themselves pariahs. its just part of life and human behavior. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Blindness is *NOT* nor should it be viewed as something to "protect," > anyone from! I'm afraid that blind people who feel this way will make of > all blind people a pariah. Badly constructed sentence, but you know what > I mean. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Tue Mar 30 13:03:04 2010 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:03:04 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access Message-ID: <0044432BF5A34A00ABDFBBBBDEAEAA0E@14bd0130080a469> Greetings to All: Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best companies, etc. for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't have $2,000.00 to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard the frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. I observed yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are no longer available. I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by seeking wisdom from the group. Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for listening- Cathryn From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 13:47:15 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:47:15 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access In-Reply-To: <0044432BF5A34A00ABDFBBBBDEAEAA0E@14bd0130080a469> Message-ID: <9C57F100E47E493BB6BD44EEB0E12653@Rufus> I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from Verizon, better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through Verizon, I think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak installed. Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG line that provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both carriers are the best ones here in terms of reception. Joe Orozco "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access Greetings to All: Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best companies, etc. for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't have $2,000.00 to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard the frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. I observed yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are no longer available. I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by seeking wisdom from the group. Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for listening- Cathryn _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4985 (20100330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Tue Mar 30 15:03:52 2010 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access In-Reply-To: <9C57F100E47E493BB6BD44EEB0E12653@Rufus> References: <0044432BF5A34A00ABDFBBBBDEAEAA0E@14bd0130080a469> <9C57F100E47E493BB6BD44EEB0E12653@Rufus> Message-ID: <2852F843F2494C82BDB2382D12F4D541@14bd0130080a469> Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice software to install on a cell? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from Verizon, better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through Verizon, I think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak installed. Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG line that provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both carriers are the best ones here in terms of reception. Joe Orozco "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access Greetings to All: Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best companies, etc. for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't have $2,000.00 to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard the frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. I observed yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are no longer available. I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by seeking wisdom from the group. Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for listening- Cathryn _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4985 (20100330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/30/10 06:32:00 From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Tue Mar 30 17:18:38 2010 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:18:38 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access References: <0044432BF5A34A00ABDFBBBBDEAEAA0E@14bd0130080a469> Message-ID: <1396EC6B323A463B922D4F129B95066D@valtd> Hi Cathryn: MobileSpeak, the competition for cell phone screen reader, will also work on the HTC Ozone if you choose to stay with Verizon. Aside from these, there are several mostly Nokia phones that Talks can run on. Here are a few: N85, N86, 6120 Classic, E65, E66, E61I, N95, N96, ETC. I hear that the new Talks5 soon to be released will even work on Nokia Touch Screen phones. Please note that Nokia phones use GSM technology; if you choose a Nokia phone, you will be stuck with either AT&T or T-Mobile for the most part. It is my understanding that the HTC Ozone supports both GSM and CDMA platforms; with this phone, you can still keep Verizon if that is your preference. In the event that you need to use the KNFB Reader, this product DOES NOT currently work on any phones running Windows Mobile operating systems. It works primarily on Nokia phones such as the N86, N82, and 6120 Classic to mention a few. To learn more about different phones that you can use with a screen reader, please consider subscribing to the Blind Phones List using the address below: blindphones-subscribe at mosenexplosion.com Hope the foregoing has been helpful. Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From steve.jacobson at visi.com Tue Mar 30 18:41:12 2010 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:41:12 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access In-Reply-To: <2852F843F2494C82BDB2382D12F4D541@14bd0130080a469> Message-ID: Cathryn, Like Joe, I am also using an accessible cellphone through Sprint. Maybe I can shed a little light on a couple of things. First, the KNFB Reader phone is as expensive as it is mostly because of the KNFB reader software rather than the phone. However the total price has come down to around $1,500. Of this, $995 is for the software that converts print into spoken text. That is about the same price as the K-1000 software that performs that function on a personal computer. Speaking very generally, the phone itself is roughly $300 and the software or "screen reader" that makes the phone functions talk is around another $200. The price estimated here for the phone is based upon buying a phone from a dealer without going through a phone company. Generally if you buy a phone through a service provider and sign a two year contract or renew one for two years, the phone company in effect subsidizes the cost of a new phone by $150 or $200 or so. Therefore, if you sign a new contract or extend an existing one, it is very possible that you can get a phone that can be made accessible for $100 or so, but you still have to buy a "screen reader" for the phone which will probably cost you another $200. However, as Joe mentioned, there are some phones out there which have some speech built in. These phones can cost you less than $100 with a new contract or an extension, and no screen reader is required. However, phones with built-in speech generally cannot handle e-mail or web browsing, but they can usually handle text messaging now and allow access to your contacts. I believe that Sprint still has the LG Rumor 2 and the LG Lotus and there could be others by now that fit this category. You cannot add a screen reader to just any phone. Like computers, the more advanced phones have "operating systems," and some of these do allow a screen reader to be added. The most common operating system on phones that can be used with Sprint and Verizon is called Windows Mobile. There is a screen reader called Mobile Speak that works with many of these phones. Such phones are sometimes called SmartPhones or Pocket PC's. Common brands include Samsung and Joe mentioned and also HTC but there are others. Many of the Palm phones cannot be used with a screen reader. Many of the phones that work on T-Mobil and AT&T use the Simbian operating system. There is another screen reader that is used on these phones called TALKS. However, Mobile Speak also works on some of these phones, and TALKS works on certain Verizon phones now. Phones made by Nokia are most common in this category, but not all Nokia phones are capablt of supporting a screen reader. I just went through the process of buying an HTC Snap phone which I use on Sprint with Mobile Speak, and I found the whole business to be confusing at best. Therefore, I hope the above helps a little, but keep in mind that something I have written could easily have become out of date since I started this note. Still, if you can keep in mind that some phones are simply not accessible, some have some built-in accessibility for basics, and some that use Windows Mobile or Simbian operating systems can be made accessible with the addition of a screen reader, you will be off to a good start. Then also remember that you can usually get a big discount buying a phone from a service provider with a new contract or contract extension. Good luck. Best regards, Steve Jacobson , On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: >Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice software to >install on a cell? >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Joe Orozco >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from Verizon, >better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through Verizon, I >think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak installed. >Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG line that >provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both carriers are >the best ones here in terms of reception. >Joe Orozco >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >Greetings to All: > >Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best >companies, etc. >for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't >have $2,000.00 >to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard the >frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with >disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. > I observed >yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are no >longer available. > >I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by seeking >wisdom from the group. > >Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for >listening- > >Cathryn >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >co%40gmail.com > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >http://www.eset.com > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >database 4985 (20100330) __________ >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >http://www.eset.com > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 >0verizon.net >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/30/10 >06:32:00 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From dandrews at visi.com Tue Mar 30 19:27:02 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:27:02 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> <01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> Message-ID: Mark: Two things: first, discussion of NFB philosophy is not really on topic for this list, nonetheless I will try and briefly answer your question. I think the problem comes in that you misunderstand why we aren't in favor of some audio pedestrian signals, some forms of currency identification etc. First, some of your language, that we "rail against" does not lend itself to reasoned discussion. Your examples to me imply that you think we are against any recognizable identification of blindness. This isn't the reason. I think as a group we are proud of ourselves as blind persons and what we have accomplished. On the other hand we feel that you should only ask for and use those accommodations that are necessary, and when there are other ways of accomplishing something, you should use those ways. You are drawing a black and white picture of the world, and NFB's reaction to it, and the true picture is much more nuanced. Dave At 04:51 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: >I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks >here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for >that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the >NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, >claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind >"want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I >hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a >symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so >that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of >the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB >might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of >blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't >understand this. From dandrews at visi.com Tue Mar 30 19:37:34 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:37:34 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Canes and Blindness In-Reply-To: <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Mark: I suppose it is a goal to "blend in and not stand out" as you say, but not just in a physical sense. I want to be a part of society, an equal, getting the bad and the good do along with my sighted counterparts. With the tools available to me today, cane, dog etc., I will always stand out some. So instead of trying to hide that I need to be proud of my blindness and promote a positive attitude towards those tools and blind people, so the stigma goes away. There is a stigma because we are not equals -- our unemployment rate etc. prove that. When we change that it won't matter that we carry a cane, use a dog etc. We won't change attitudes by not using canes and the like though. Dave At 08:00 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: >I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, >recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to >identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being >unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was >put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they >may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as >blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not >being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I >am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems >to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. >For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane >becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the identifying >mark by which blind people are known and warn their surroundings that >they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is one reason why I want >to use a cane that's other than white with a red tip. It is very true >that, even with my guide dog, when I wear sunglasses, I am often >mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog user. It's like that old >left-handed compliment, "No one would know you're blind, you do that >so well." That infuriates me when it's said to me. It seems that >some here are trying to avoid just this situation--being mistaken for >a sighted person--when I should think that was the ultimate goal of >any blind person--to blend in and not stand out. From agtolentino at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 19:42:23 2010 From: agtolentino at gmail.com (Aser Tolentino) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:42:23 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I thought I'd chime in with a note about VoiceOver on the iPhone. > Apple includes a mobile version of its screen reader as part of the > operating system. It works with all Apple apps and many third party > apps to varying degrees. I can type on the onscreen keyboard about > as fast as I could on a numeric keypad. The phone starts at $199 > with contract and runs about $90 a month for service. On Mar 30, 2010, at 11:41, "Steve Jacobson" wrote: > Cathryn, > > Like Joe, I am also using an accessible cellphone through Sprint. > Maybe I can shed a little light on a couple of things. > > First, the KNFB Reader phone is as expensive as it is mostly because > of the KNFB reader software rather than the phone. However the > total price has come down > to around $1,500. Of this, $995 is for the software that converts > print into spoken text. That is about the same price as the K-1000 > software that performs that > function on a personal computer. Speaking very generally, the phone > itself is roughly $300 and the software or "screen reader" that > makes the phone functions talk > is around another $200. The price estimated here for the phone is > based upon buying a phone from a dealer without going through a > phone company. Generally if > you buy a phone through a service provider and sign a two year > contract or renew one for two years, the phone company in effect > subsidizes the cost of a new > phone by $150 or $200 or so. Therefore, if you sign a new contract > or extend an existing one, it is very possible that you can get a > phone that can be made > accessible for $100 or so, but you still have to buy a "screen > reader" for the phone which will probably cost you another $200. > > However, as Joe mentioned, there are some phones out there which > have some speech built in. These phones can cost you less than $100 > with a new contract or > an extension, and no screen reader is required. However, phones > with built-in speech generally cannot handle e-mail or web browsing, > but they can usually handle > text messaging now and allow access to your contacts. I believe > that Sprint still has the LG Rumor 2 and the LG Lotus and there > could be others by now that fit this > category. > > You cannot add a screen reader to just any phone. Like computers, > the more advanced phones have "operating systems," and some of these > do allow a screen > reader to be added. The most common operating system on phones that > can be used with Sprint and Verizon is called Windows Mobile. There > is a screen reader > called Mobile Speak that works with many of these phones. Such > phones are sometimes called SmartPhones or Pocket PC's. Common > brands include Samsung > and Joe mentioned and also HTC but there are others. Many of the > Palm phones cannot be used with a screen reader. > > Many of the phones that work on T-Mobil and AT&T use the Simbian > operating system. There is another screen reader that is used on > these phones called TALKS. > However, Mobile Speak also works on some of these phones, and TALKS > works on certain Verizon phones now. Phones made by Nokia are most > common in this > category, but not all Nokia phones are capablt of supporting a > screen reader. > > I just went through the process of buying an HTC Snap phone which I > use on Sprint with Mobile Speak, and I found the whole business to > be confusing at best. > Therefore, I hope the above helps a little, but keep in mind that > something I have written could easily have become out of date since > I started this note. > Still, if you can keep in mind that some phones are simply not > accessible, some have some built-in accessibility for basics, and > some that use Windows Mobile or > Simbian operating systems can be made accessible with the addition > of a screen reader, you will be off to a good start. Then also > remember that you can usually get > a big discount buying a phone from a service provider with a new > contract or contract extension. Good luck. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson , > > On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: > >> Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice >> software to >> install on a cell? > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > >> I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from >> Verizon, >> better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through >> Verizon, I >> think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak >> installed. >> Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG >> line that >> provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both >> carriers are >> the best ones here in terms of reception. > >> Joe Orozco > >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > >> Greetings to All: > >> > >> Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best >> companies, etc. >> for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't >> have $2,000.00 >> to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard >> the >> frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with >> disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. >> I observed >> yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are >> no >> longer available. > >> > >> I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by >> seeking >> wisdom from the group. > >> > >> Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for >> listening- > >> > >> Cathryn > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >> co%40gmail.com >> > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4985 (20100330) __________ > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >> http://www.eset.com >> > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 >> 0verizon.net >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: >> 03/30/10 >> 06:32:00 > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com > From rumpole at roadrunner.com Tue Mar 30 21:52:00 2010 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:52:00 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus><01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> <64716459B89847DD9053C871AE5141EF@Scorpio13> Message-ID: Hey, before they cut off this thred of postings, where do I get one of those gold-plated canes again? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Hi Mark, > > With due respect, I think you are misunderstanding the NFB's philosophy > and > some of our positions. The NFB didn't oppose audible signals, or the > lawsuit > seeking identifiable money, because we don't believe that blind people > need > accommodations. What we believe is that blind people ought to have the > tools > and receive the accommodations that are necessary, not just every > conceivable accommodation. Now, you may well disagree with us on what > accommodations are necessary, and that is all well and good. Even our own > members don't always agree on everything, but we take a vote on the issues > we disagree on and once a position has been voted on we stick with it > until > there is a vote to change it. The white cane is a tool that many blind > people have found useful, primarily because it helps us get around. A > guide > dog is useful to other blind people for the same reason. In the NFB we > generally believe that a blind person should be able to have access to > these > tools and make choices about the ones they will use. Symbolically, the > white > cane is important because it means we believe it is respectable to be > blind, > but that's not the only or even the primary reason to carry one. If one > has > some vision, a white cane may be useful and will certainly avoid > misunderstandings arising from not being able to see very well. That said, > of course being identified as blind has its down sides. A lot of us have > decided that the benefits of carrying a cane outweigh those down sides. > > In a speech on the nature of independence, our long-time president Kenneth > Jernigan pointed out that the white cane and Braille are simply tools that > can make a person independent and that many blind people find useful. But > he > warned us against defining whether a person was independent based on > whether > or not they chose to use any given tool. Sometimes all of us forget this > warning, but I still think it is generally what we believe. We do push for > things like Braille literacy and cane training because those who are blind > or have low vision should know what all of their options are. It's fine to > make a choice, but we believe it should be an informed choice, and not one > that is merely made because one doesn't want to seem blind because of > society's attitude about blindness. Beyond that, the choice is up to the > individual blind person. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:51 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks here > are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that > matter. > I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB rails against > things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming that the blind > don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," whatever. Same with > identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a bunch of the same people > saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of blindness! I want to > proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can alter their behaviors > appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm blind!" I should think > the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a black cane and give no > indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I > just don't understand this. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4983 (20100329) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4983 (20100329) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2776 - Release Date: 03/28/10 18:32:00 From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 22:36:30 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:36:30 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Canes and Blindness In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <034501cad059$730318d0$59094a70$@com> >From my reading of Mark's statement....and he can defend his own....but I didn't see where he said not to use a cane. One problem in this e-mail trail and others is that many times, myself included, read what we want to out of a person's statement rather than what they really said. I guess, as in court, yowe cannot come to an amicable resolution if the facts are not taken into consideration. I'm sure there will be a statement regarding this one that may take a word or two out of context. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 2:38 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Canes and Blindness Mark: I suppose it is a goal to "blend in and not stand out" as you say, but not just in a physical sense. I want to be a part of society, an equal, getting the bad and the good do along with my sighted counterparts. With the tools available to me today, cane, dog etc., I will always stand out some. So instead of trying to hide that I need to be proud of my blindness and promote a positive attitude towards those tools and blind people, so the stigma goes away. There is a stigma because we are not equals -- our unemployment rate etc. prove that. When we change that it won't matter that we carry a cane, use a dog etc. We won't change attitudes by not using canes and the like though. Dave At 08:00 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: >I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, >recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to >identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being >unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was >put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they >may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as >blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not >being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I >am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems >to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. >For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane >becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the identifying >mark by which blind people are known and warn their surroundings that >they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is one reason why I want >to use a cane that's other than white with a red tip. It is very true >that, even with my guide dog, when I wear sunglasses, I am often >mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog user. It's like that old >left-handed compliment, "No one would know you're blind, you do that >so well." That infuriates me when it's said to me. It seems that >some here are trying to avoid just this situation--being mistaken for >a sighted person--when I should think that was the ultimate goal of >any blind person--to blend in and not stand out. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From rob.tabor at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 30 22:37:55 2010 From: rob.tabor at sbcglobal.net ( Rob Tabor) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:37:55 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com><47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net><9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net><861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> <1686D973-88E1-4ACB-85E6-C27F5E5CE2C6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Good evening. Although this thread of conversation began as something quite amuzing and at least arguably relevant to questions pertaining to alternately colored or multi-colored travel canes and their compliance with white cane laws it has evolved into an equally interesting but kokophanous diatribe over how we perceive one another and how the world perceives as people with blindness or otherwise low vision. In other words, the conversation is drifting far from being relevant to a blind lawyers' discussion list for which it is intended. I recognize, however, that Dave Anddrews has final judgment on this as list owner/moderator. Perhaps someone should start a philosophy of blindness discussion list where views like these can be aired and responded to. Best regards, Rob Tabor Vice president Douglas county (KS) Chapter NFB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Oh cut that out. I was born blind, too, and I don't have insecurities > about injuring someone; I've never been responsible for anyone else's > injury that I didn't mean to, so stop making it personal when I'm trying > to keep it general. Blindness is *NOT* a liability any more than > clumsiness or large feet. Having bright red hair can e a distraction > which can cause injury to someone who sees it. I protest loudly the idea > that blind people, especially high-end, intelligent, lawyer-type blind > people accept the fact that they may injure someone more readily than a > sighted person with two left feet might. When I see professionals who > are blind accepting this shame instead of actively working to correct it, > I am sad because this attitude will trickle down to disrupt my life when > I do something unconventional. So knock off that psychology crap, > please; I use a guide dog, not a cane anyway. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rob.tabor%40sbcglobal.net From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 22:41:23 2010 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:41:23 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> <01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> Message-ID: <034601cad05a$20734620$6159d260$@com> I'm a member of NFB and have heard the things that Mark was speaking of. Dave, you may be taking your view which you stated. The fact is that there are many members who do what Mark spoke of. And the perception of many in the blind community is as such. I've heard an NFB member rail against the I-Phone because they wanted to dissuade a person from purchasing it so they could waste money on the KNFB reader which is way to expensive. I've heard many a philosophy on the use of straight canes and why we shouldn't use a folding cane. The list goes on and on. I think a point was being made that those who wish to disagree with mark are blatantly overlooking. Again, he can defend his own statements but I've been reading the e-mails relating to this topic. Once again, I and others have gotten on their soapbox on a topic that started lightly. Well, here's to reading some more. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 2:27 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane Mark: Two things: first, discussion of NFB philosophy is not really on topic for this list, nonetheless I will try and briefly answer your question. I think the problem comes in that you misunderstand why we aren't in favor of some audio pedestrian signals, some forms of currency identification etc. First, some of your language, that we "rail against" does not lend itself to reasoned discussion. Your examples to me imply that you think we are against any recognizable identification of blindness. This isn't the reason. I think as a group we are proud of ourselves as blind persons and what we have accomplished. On the other hand we feel that you should only ask for and use those accommodations that are necessary, and when there are other ways of accomplishing something, you should use those ways. You are drawing a black and white picture of the world, and NFB's reaction to it, and the true picture is much more nuanced. Dave At 04:51 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: >I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks >here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for >that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the >NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, >claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind >"want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I >hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a >symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so >that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of >the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB >might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of >blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't >understand this. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From dandrews at visi.com Tue Mar 30 23:41:33 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:41:33 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: References: <67ba2.6a1c5023.38e146eb@aol.com> <47359EDB-A5DC-48DE-B38B-9E8D775E83E8@sbcglobal.net> <9458E555-0D4B-4DC5-BAA4-51CCC28EFD6E@sbcglobal.net> <861A7F6B0DA94CBDB92715278D400AE8@StevePC> <1686D973-88E1-4ACB-85E6-C27F5E5CE2C6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: There is -- try nfb-talk. To subscribe either go to: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org or send e-mail to nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org and put the word subscribe in the subject line by itself. Dave At 05:37 PM 3/30/2010, you wrote: >Good evening. > >Although this thread of conversation began as something quite >amuzing and at least arguably relevant to questions pertaining to >alternately colored or multi-colored travel canes and their >compliance with white cane laws it has evolved into an equally >interesting but kokophanous diatribe over how we perceive one >another and how the world perceives as people with blindness or >otherwise low vision. In other words, the conversation is drifting >far from being relevant to a blind lawyers' discussion list for >which it is intended. I recognize, however, that Dave Anddrews has >final judgment on this as list owner/moderator. Perhaps someone >should start a philosophy of blindness discussion list where views >like these can be aired and responded to. >Best regards, >Rob Tabor Vice president Douglas county (KS) Chapter NFB From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Tue Mar 30 23:42:43 2010 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:42:43 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access In-Reply-To: References: <2852F843F2494C82BDB2382D12F4D541@14bd0130080a469> Message-ID: <68E61DE2FA7F410EA387623187EB1870@Blind> Hello: I have had the nokia, forgot the model, running talks and then moved to the Motorola Q9 running mobilespeaks. At first I found Talks superior but it was obviously due to my familiarity with it and the Nokia I had been using. I soon discovered the "MotoQ" running the mobilespeaks software was much slicker. I had access to basically all blackberry type options although I did not pay for the internet and cannot say how that worked. Currently I am using an iPhone with "voiceover" which is inadequate if you are totally blind but usable with limited vision and worth the hassle. Jimi -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:41 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access Cathryn, Like Joe, I am also using an accessible cellphone through Sprint. Maybe I can shed a little light on a couple of things. First, the KNFB Reader phone is as expensive as it is mostly because of the KNFB reader software rather than the phone. However the total price has come down to around $1,500. Of this, $995 is for the software that converts print into spoken text. That is about the same price as the K-1000 software that performs that function on a personal computer. Speaking very generally, the phone itself is roughly $300 and the software or "screen reader" that makes the phone functions talk is around another $200. The price estimated here for the phone is based upon buying a phone from a dealer without going through a phone company. Generally if you buy a phone through a service provider and sign a two year contract or renew one for two years, the phone company in effect subsidizes the cost of a new phone by $150 or $200 or so. Therefore, if you sign a new contract or extend an existing one, it is very possible that you can get a phone that can be made accessible for $100 or so, but you still have to buy a "screen reader" for the phone which will probably cost you another $200. However, as Joe mentioned, there are some phones out there which have some speech built in. These phones can cost you less than $100 with a new contract or an extension, and no screen reader is required. However, phones with built-in speech generally cannot handle e-mail or web browsing, but they can usually handle text messaging now and allow access to your contacts. I believe that Sprint still has the LG Rumor 2 and the LG Lotus and there could be others by now that fit this category. You cannot add a screen reader to just any phone. Like computers, the more advanced phones have "operating systems," and some of these do allow a screen reader to be added. The most common operating system on phones that can be used with Sprint and Verizon is called Windows Mobile. There is a screen reader called Mobile Speak that works with many of these phones. Such phones are sometimes called SmartPhones or Pocket PC's. Common brands include Samsung and Joe mentioned and also HTC but there are others. Many of the Palm phones cannot be used with a screen reader. Many of the phones that work on T-Mobil and AT&T use the Simbian operating system. There is another screen reader that is used on these phones called TALKS. However, Mobile Speak also works on some of these phones, and TALKS works on certain Verizon phones now. Phones made by Nokia are most common in this category, but not all Nokia phones are capablt of supporting a screen reader. I just went through the process of buying an HTC Snap phone which I use on Sprint with Mobile Speak, and I found the whole business to be confusing at best. Therefore, I hope the above helps a little, but keep in mind that something I have written could easily have become out of date since I started this note. Still, if you can keep in mind that some phones are simply not accessible, some have some built-in accessibility for basics, and some that use Windows Mobile or Simbian operating systems can be made accessible with the addition of a screen reader, you will be off to a good start. Then also remember that you can usually get a big discount buying a phone from a service provider with a new contract or contract extension. Good luck. Best regards, Steve Jacobson , On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: >Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice software to >install on a cell? >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Joe Orozco >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from Verizon, >better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through Verizon, I >think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak installed. >Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG line that >provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both carriers are >the best ones here in terms of reception. >Joe Orozco >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >Greetings to All: > >Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best >companies, etc. >for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't >have $2,000.00 >to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard the >frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with >disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. > I observed >yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are no >longer available. > >I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by seeking >wisdom from the group. > >Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for >listening- > >Cathryn >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >co%40gmail.com > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >http://www.eset.com > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >database 4985 (20100330) __________ >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >http://www.eset.com > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally% 4 >0verizon.net >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/30/10 >06:32:00 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40 visi.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4986 (20100330) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4986 (20100330) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Mar 31 01:20:17 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:20:17 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement Message-ID: Dear all, On a more serious topic, what is the best course of action to take in a situation where police officers do not know of service animal accessibility laws, or will not enforce these laws even if they are aware of them? A couple of years ago I wound up suing a Chinatown curbside carrier for not allowing my Seeing Eye dog on one of their buses. Since that incident I have monitored other discrimination cases where the police officers on the scene either partially or mostly took the side of the public business, claiming the business could refuse whoever they want or suggesting alternative services to avoid future discrimination. In the moment it seems as though there is very little one can do to trump the authority of the local police department, which seems unfair, but there must surely be something one can do to educate what seems to be a widespread ignorance among the law enforcement community on the issue. Are there not standard training procedures for most law enforcement departments? Are there perhaps legal maneuvers one could use to catch the attention of departments that do not help protect the rights of service animal handlers? With all respect, please do not suggest my going through NAGDU. Otherwise, thank you in advance for any light you can shed. Regards, Joe Orozco "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4986 (20100330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 31 01:45:45 2010 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:45:45 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane In-Reply-To: <034601cad05a$20734620$6159d260$@com> References: <0D32DDCAFC414DD889E321F12E812322@Rufus> <01d901cace8b$f6092190$e21b64b0$@com> <034601cad05a$20734620$6159d260$@com> Message-ID: I made a promise to take this off list, so that's why I'm not defending my statements. :) I'd just be repeating myself at this point; I have tried to make my words stand on their own, to not make it personal and to keep my rhetoric to a minimum. My apologies if I failed, but WB's right; things like the railing against the Iphone, the amazingly harsh status *AGAINST* guide dogs, etc., have really turned me off to NFB, as well as the whole "you will be assimilated," thing. This is why I don't join *ANY* organization; I just don't fit in. :) Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 31 03:17:38 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:17:38 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Joe, Much depends on the jurisdiction that you are in. One option is to request a police supervisor such as a sergeant or contact a shift or watch commander to address the issue. Here in California I am familiar with a situation where a guide dog user was not allowed in a store with his dog and the police warned the business owner that the dog user could sue him and file a civil rights complaint. The important thing is to know the laws in each jurisdiction as well as the relevant sections of the ADA regarding public businesses and accommodations. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 6:20 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement > Dear all, > > On a more serious topic, what is the best course of action to take in a > situation where police officers do not know of service animal > accessibility > laws, or will not enforce these laws even if they are aware of them? A > couple of years ago I wound up suing a Chinatown curbside carrier for not > allowing my Seeing Eye dog on one of their buses. Since that incident I > have monitored other discrimination cases where the police officers on the > scene either partially or mostly took the side of the public business, > claiming the business could refuse whoever they want or suggesting > alternative services to avoid future discrimination. In the moment it > seems > as though there is very little one can do to trump the authority of the > local police department, which seems unfair, but there must surely be > something one can do to educate what seems to be a widespread ignorance > among the law enforcement community on the issue. Are there not standard > training procedures for most law enforcement departments? Are there > perhaps > legal maneuvers one could use to catch the attention of departments that > do > not help protect the rights of service animal handlers? With all respect, > please do not suggest my going through NAGDU. Otherwise, thank you in > advance for any light you can shed. > > Regards, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4986 (20100330) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From rob.tabor at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 31 04:00:41 2010 From: rob.tabor at sbcglobal.net ( Rob Tabor) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:00:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement References: Message-ID: <3239D11BD0AD48EF8EC29BA6A3206D85@Rob> Hi, Joe and all. When I acquired my dog guide from The Seeing Eye® in 1980 all of us in the dog navigation training class were provided a copy of the dog guide use protection clause in the White Cane Act applicable to our respective home states. I suspect The Seeing Eye® and other dog guide training schools provide the same service to their graduates. That being the case, the obvious first step is to carry the document and show it to the officer who is questioning your right to bring the service animal. If the officer is not persuaded that s/he has seen the law of the land, the next step is to file a formal complaint with the chief of police or to follow whatever process or apparatus is available in your municipal government to launch a public grievance against the actions of the officer. There is always the option of taking one's complaint to the "court of public opinion" in the form of letters to the newspaper editor, contacting a newspaper or TV reporter about doing a feature on the issue, etc. If these kinder and gentler measures fail to yield the desired results, filing a law suit against the police department under Title 2 of ADA or the applicable state anti-discrimination law may prove to be necessary. One thinng is for sure. Either you will acquire a reputation in town as a troublemaker or people will learn you are not a person to be trifled with. Take your pick. In any event, good luck in these endeavors. best regards Rob Tabor, J.D, Vice president, Douglas County Chapter, NFB of Kansas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:20 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement > Dear all, > > On a more serious topic, what is the best course of action to take in a > situation where police officers do not know of service animal > accessibility > laws, or will not enforce these laws even if they are aware of them? A > couple of years ago I wound up suing a Chinatown curbside carrier for not > allowing my Seeing Eye dog on one of their buses. Since that incident I > have monitored other discrimination cases where the police officers on the > scene either partially or mostly took the side of the public business, > claiming the business could refuse whoever they want or suggesting > alternative services to avoid future discrimination. In the moment it > seems > as though there is very little one can do to trump the authority of the > local police department, which seems unfair, but there must surely be > something one can do to educate what seems to be a widespread ignorance > among the law enforcement community on the issue. Are there not standard > training procedures for most law enforcement departments? Are there > perhaps > legal maneuvers one could use to catch the attention of departments that > do > not help protect the rights of service animal handlers? With all respect, > please do not suggest my going through NAGDU. Otherwise, thank you in > advance for any light you can shed. > > Regards, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4986 (20100330) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rob.tabor%40sbcglobal.net From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Mar 31 15:42:15 2010 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:42:15 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Arizona Attorney magazine Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D6CE1@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Does anyone else on the list practice in Arizona? I emailed the State Bar last week to find out if there was either a text-only on-line version of the Arizona Attorney magazine, or an audio version, as it has become increasingly difficult to read the publication even with my CCTV and/or screen magnification software. The format of the on-line version does not work at all with screen narration, as it keeps getting "off track" into the other fluff on the sides of the articles and notices. Of course, the Bar has not bothered to even acknowledge my email as of yet. So - would anyone on this list happen to know the answer? I ask because the magazine is often the first, or at least the most in-depth, notification of rule changes, convention information, etc. for Arizona.... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5675 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Mar 31 18:27:54 2010 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:27:54 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Attorney-Adviser positions for HUD Message-ID: http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=87203119&JobTitle=Attorney-Adviser&lid=18612&rad_units=miles&brd=3876&pp=50&vw=b&re=4&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&caller=advanced.aspx&pg=3&where=Seattle%2c+WA&rad=20%2387116870&AVSDM=2010-03-31+09%3a04%3a00#duties Job Title: Attorney-Adviser Department: Department Of Housing And Urban Development Agency: Housing & Urban Development, Office of the Inspector General Sub Agency: Office of General Council Job Announcement Number: 10-HUDIG-148P SALARY RANGE: 101,035.00 - 155,500.00 USD /year OPEN PERIOD: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 to Friday, April 09, 2010 SERIES & GRADE: GS-0905-14/15 POSITION INFORMATION: Excepted Service Appointment This is a Full-Time appointment that can be either permanent or time limited in duration. The appointment type will be determined at the time of appointment. PROMOTION POTENTIAL: 15 DUTY LOCATIONS: 1 vacancy(s) in one of the following locations: Multiple duty locations - click here for more info WHO MAY BE CONSIDERED: Applications will be accepted from U.S. Citizens. *****Amended to Extend Closing Date and Clarify Duty Locations***** JOB SUMMARY: There is one (1) vacancy available in one of the following potential duty locations: Washington, DC; New York, NY; Atlanta, GA; Chicago, IL; Dallas, TX; Denver, CO; Seattle, WA; or Los Angeles, CA. The specific duty location will be determined after the selection is made. Applicants must designate preferred duty location(s) or be considered for them all. The Office of the Inspector General (OIG) has as its primary mission the detection and deterrence of fraud, waste, and abuse in the administration of over $30 billion in Federal funds each year by the U.S. Department of Housing & Urban Development (HUD). Through its programs, largely carried out by thousands of approved lenders and public housing authorities throughout the United States, HUD expands housing opportunities for American families by extending such benefits as mortgage insurance and rental subsidies for qualified persons. Employees of the OIG help to ensure that HUD funds are used only for the purposes for which they are intended, thereby ensuring maximum benefit to the American public. HUD OIG is recruiting to build, sustain, and deploy a skilled, knowledgeable, diverse, and high-performing workforce to meet the current and emerging needs of government and its citizens. The ability to speak Mien, one of the dialects of the three Lao hill tribes in northern Laos is desired. ________________________________ Key Requirements: All applicants must be U.S. Citizens. Back to top Duties Additional Duty Location Info: Washington, DC; New York City, NY; Atlanta, GA; Chicago, IL; Dallas, TX; Denver, CO; Seattle, WA; Los Angeles, CA The incumbent for this position assists the Counsel to the Inspector General in the following activities: provides legal advice and guidance on issues related to the conduct of OIG programs; provides legal services that run the full gamut of lawyer skills; coordinates OIG reviews of existing or proposed legislation, regulations, policies and procedures; provides on-site assistance to OIG investigators and auditors; represents the Inspector General when necessary; maintains a close and working relationship with HUD's Office of the General Counsel; in conjunction with the Department of Justice, represents the OIG in subpoena enforcement and other litigation. Back to top Qualifications and Evaluations QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED: In order for your application to be considered, you must meet the following requirements by the closing date of this announcement. Candidates must provide sufficient information at the time of the application to determine that the following requirements are met. If selected, you will need to verify that you meet these requirements before appointment. ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS All applicants must be U.S. Citizens. MINIMUM QUALIFICATION REQUIREMENTS For the GS-14 level applicants must: 1. Be a graduate of a law school accredited by the American Bar Association at the time of graduation; 2. Be a current member of a bar with a valid license to practice law in a state, territory of the United States, District of Columbia, or Commonwealth of Puerto Rico; and 3. Have at least four (4) years of professional experience. For the GS-15 level applicants must: 1. Be a graduate of a law school accredited by the American Bar Association at the time of graduation; 2. Be a current member of a bar with a valid license to practice law in a state, territory of the United States, District of Columbia, or Commonwealth of Puerto Rico; and 3. Have at least five (5) years of professional experience. HOW YOU WILL BE EVALUATED: Subject matter experts evaluate qualified applicants based on the extent to which their documented experience and/or education demonstrates possession of the following knowledge, skills and abilities (KSAs). As noted in the 'How to Apply' section of this announcement, applicants must provide a narrative statement, in addition to the application or résumé, individually addressing each of these KSAs separately in order to receive consideration. Knowledge, Skills and Abilities (KSAs) 1. Knowledge of laws and regulations which impact on OIG and HUD programs. 2. Knowledge of criminal and civil laws used to enforce or protect HUD programs. 3. Ability to organize people and support litigation in criminal cases or civil enforcement actions. 4. Ability to communicate effectively both orally and in writing. Back to top Benefits and Other Info BENEFITS: Federal employee benefit information can be accessed http://www.usajobs.gov/EI/benefits.asp#icc OTHER INFORMATION: ** If you are hired under a time-limited appointment, the appointment will be made for a period not to exceed 2 years. The appointment may be extended up to a total of 4 years or may be made permanent without further competition if all legal requirements are met. ** Payment of Relocation Expenses is Not Authorized. This announcement may be used to fill one or more vacancies. Selection(s) may be made from this vacancy announcement 10-HUDIG-148P, or from any other appropriate source. Applicants selected under this announcement may be required to serve a two-year trial period. Federal law requires verification of the identity and employment eligibility of all new hires in the United States. If your identity and employment eligibility cannot be confirmed, you may be terminated. In accordance with Homeland Security Presidential Directive 12, the selectee(s) must be eligible to receive a Personal Identity Verification (PIV) credential. If selected, you must: 1. Present 2 acceptable, authentic "identity source documents," at least one of which is a valid Federal or State government issued picture ID (for a list of identity source documents, visit www.osec.doc.gov/osy/HSPD12/PDF/i-9.pdf; 2. Receive a favorable detailed background check; and 3. Maintain eligibility for a PIV credential during your employment with the Department of Housing and Urban Development, Office of Inspector General as described by #1 and #2 above. CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT Individuals selected for these positions must: Pass a pre-employment suitability inquiry. Pass a detailed background investigation. Provide a confidential financial disclosure statement. Back to top How To Apply HOW TO APPLY: Make certain you have provided all the information needed to fully describe your eligibility and qualifications for this position. Although we will notify you as to the status of your application, we will not contact you to solicit information you have not provided. That information could be the difference between your being considered and being found ineligible or unqualified. Applications will not be returned. The following materials are required: 1. An application such as Optional Application for Federal Employment (OF-612), or résumé. Include the vacancy announcement number and work experience, training, education, and awards relevant to the qualification requirements. For work experience, specify the dates and number of hours per week. For training or self-development activities, specify course titles, classroom hours completed, and dates. 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In addition, the following materials are recommended: A copy of your most recent performance appraisal with the evaluation/rating. ________________________________ Where to Apply: The HUD OIG has contracted with the Treasury's Bureau of the Public Debt (BPD) to provide certain personnel services to its organization. BPD's responsibilities include advertising the vacancies, accepting and handling applications, and extending job offers. Applications and other forms may be mailed to the address under contact information. Complete application packages must be postmarked by the closing date of this announcement. Application materials submitted electronically will not be accepted. ________________________________ For Assistance: For more information, contact the Human Resources Specialist listed under "Contact Information" below. Anyone needing a reasonable accommodation for any part of the application and hiring process for this vacancy may contact the Human Resources Specialist listed under "Contact Information" below. AGENCY CONTACT INFO: Human Resources Specialist: Tim Hathaway Phone: 304-480-8356 Fax: 304-480-8358 Email: HUDIGinquiries at bpd.treas.gov Agency Information: FESB-HUDIG, Room A2-F Public Debt Warehouse & Operations Center Dock 1 257 Bosley Industrial Park Drive Parkersburg, WV 26101 US Fax: 304-480-8358 WHAT TO EXPECT NEXT: You will be notified, via US mail, as to the status of your application during each stage of the hiring process. Please notify us if your contact information changes after the closing date of the announcement. Back to top -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 106 bytes Desc: image001.gif URL: From b75205 at gmail.com Wed Mar 31 20:39:44 2010 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:39:44 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement In-Reply-To: <3239D11BD0AD48EF8EC29BA6A3206D85@Rob> References: <3239D11BD0AD48EF8EC29BA6A3206D85@Rob> Message-ID: Face it, we are all trouble makers! James Pepper From bnaccari at cox.net Wed Mar 31 20:44:25 2010 From: bnaccari at cox.net (Bruce E. Naccari) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:44:25 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20100331164425.82BYP.88872.imail@eastrmwml28> On the topic of how one can best proceed to get enforcement of the rights of guide dog users and the White Cane laws: Many municipalities and states have Human rights Commissions or Human Relations Commissions with rather broad powers to enforce state or local antidiscrimination laws and to assess and then seek to achieve a conciliation of grievances involving discrimination complaints or complaints of poor relations between or among groups in the population. If your locality or state has such an agency, anyone with a grievance involving police failure or business or public accommodation operators’ failures to enforce and/or comply with the White Cane laws and laws protecting the right to use service animals like guide dogs should in my opinion consider filing a complaint there. Because these agencies usually are charged with a duty to try to achieve an amicable conciliation of the complaint before a hearing can be held, their procedures are useful for achieving results in cases of deprivation of rights with no or low special damages in dollars and where litigation would be lengthy and a judge with the discretion to do so might not grant adequate attorney’s fees. While I served first as Legal Counsel to the New Orleans Commission and then later as a commissioner we successfully conciliated several complaints against restaurants, bars, taxi companies, etc., involving the exclusion of guide dogs and discrimination against blind customers. In my opinion getting such a commission to become your advocate with the local police will likely prove to be more fruitful than filing Internal Affairs Division/public Integrity Division complaints with eh police department. Police tend to stiffen and back each other when a complaint is filed against one of their own but will often respond amicably and cooperatively to conciliatory procedures which seem less like an attack. And if there is a local or state Commission of this sort I would contact it to ask it in a formal petition to ensure that Police Officer Standard Training classes and/or Police Academy classes in your jurisdiction are getting adequate education about the White Cane laws and the pertinent antidiscrimination laws and about the rights of cane and service animal users. I will leave it to the wisdom of the NFB’s government relations staff and lobbyists to decide if it would be worth the time and effort to draft model amendments to the pertinent laws that would if enacted explicitly require POST an similar training of law enforcement officers to include formal instruction in this area and to require that applicants for driver’s licenses when tested show familiarity with the White Cane safety laws. ---- blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org wrote: > Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) > 2. Re: A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access (Steve Jacobson) > 3. Re: Pimp My Cane (David Andrews) > 4. Canes and Blindness (David Andrews) > 5. Re: A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access (Aser Tolentino) > 6. Re: Pimp My Cane (Ross Doerr) > 7. Re: Canes and Blindness (WB) > 8. Re: Pimp My Cane ( Rob Tabor) > 9. Re: Pimp My Cane (WB) > 10. Re: Pimp My Cane (David Andrews) > 11. Re: A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access (James Weisberg) > 12. Educating Law Enforcement (Joe Orozco) > 13. Re: Pimp My Cane (Mark BurningHawk) > 14. Re: Educating Law Enforcement (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) > 15. Re: Educating Law Enforcement ( Rob Tabor) > 16. Arizona Attorney magazine (Susan Kelly) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:18:38 -0600 > From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > Message-ID: <1396EC6B323A463B922D4F129B95066D at valtd> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Cathryn: > > MobileSpeak, the competition for cell phone screen reader, will also work on > the HTC Ozone if you choose to stay with Verizon. > > Aside from these, there are several mostly Nokia phones that Talks can run > on. Here are a few: N85, N86, 6120 Classic, E65, E66, E61I, N95, N96, ETC. > I hear that the new Talks5 soon to be released will even work on Nokia Touch > Screen phones. > > Please note that Nokia phones use GSM technology; if you choose a Nokia > phone, you will be stuck with either AT&T or T-Mobile for the most part. It > is my understanding that the HTC Ozone supports both GSM and CDMA platforms; > with this phone, you can still keep Verizon if that is your preference. > > In the event that you need to use the KNFB Reader, this product DOES NOT > currently work on any phones running Windows Mobile operating systems. It > works primarily on Nokia phones such as the N86, N82, and 6120 Classic to > mention a few. > > To learn more about different phones that you can use with a screen reader, > please consider subscribing to the Blind Phones List using the address > below: > > blindphones-subscribe at mosenexplosion.com > > Hope the foregoing has been helpful. > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:41:12 -0500 > From: "Steve Jacobson" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Cathryn, > > Like Joe, I am also using an accessible cellphone through Sprint. Maybe I can shed a little light on a couple of things. > > First, the KNFB Reader phone is as expensive as it is mostly because of the KNFB reader software rather than the phone. However the total price has come down > to around $1,500. Of this, $995 is for the software that converts print into spoken text. That is about the same price as the K-1000 software that performs that > function on a personal computer. Speaking very generally, the phone itself is roughly $300 and the software or "screen reader" that makes the phone functions talk > is around another $200. The price estimated here for the phone is based upon buying a phone from a dealer without going through a phone company. Generally if > you buy a phone through a service provider and sign a two year contract or renew one for two years, the phone company in effect subsidizes the cost of a new > phone by $150 or $200 or so. Therefore, if you sign a new contract or extend an existing one, it is very possible that you can get a phone that can be made > accessible for $100 or so, but you still have to buy a "screen reader" for the phone which will probably cost you another $200. > > However, as Joe mentioned, there are some phones out there which have some speech built in. These phones can cost you less than $100 with a new contract or > an extension, and no screen reader is required. However, phones with built-in speech generally cannot handle e-mail or web browsing, but they can usually handle > text messaging now and allow access to your contacts. I believe that Sprint still has the LG Rumor 2 and the LG Lotus and there could be others by now that fit this > category. > > You cannot add a screen reader to just any phone. Like computers, the more advanced phones have "operating systems," and some of these do allow a screen > reader to be added. The most common operating system on phones that can be used with Sprint and Verizon is called Windows Mobile. There is a screen reader > called Mobile Speak that works with many of these phones. Such phones are sometimes called SmartPhones or Pocket PC's. Common brands include Samsung > and Joe mentioned and also HTC but there are others. Many of the Palm phones cannot be used with a screen reader. > > Many of the phones that work on T-Mobil and AT&T use the Simbian operating system. There is another screen reader that is used on these phones called TALKS. > However, Mobile Speak also works on some of these phones, and TALKS works on certain Verizon phones now. Phones made by Nokia are most common in this > category, but not all Nokia phones are capablt of supporting a screen reader. > > I just went through the process of buying an HTC Snap phone which I use on Sprint with Mobile Speak, and I found the whole business to be confusing at best. > Therefore, I hope the above helps a little, but keep in mind that something I have written could easily have become out of date since I started this note. > Still, if you can keep in mind that some phones are simply not accessible, some have some built-in accessibility for basics, and some that use Windows Mobile or > Simbian operating systems can be made accessible with the addition of a screen reader, you will be off to a good start. Then also remember that you can usually get > a big discount buying a phone from a service provider with a new contract or contract extension. Good luck. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson , > > On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: > > >Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice software to > >install on a cell? > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >Behalf Of Joe Orozco > >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM > >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > > >I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from Verizon, > >better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through Verizon, I > >think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak installed. > >Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG line that > >provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both carriers are > >the best ones here in terms of reception. > > >Joe Orozco > > >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette > >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM > >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > >Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > > >Greetings to All: > > > > > >Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best > >companies, etc. > >for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't > >have $2,000.00 > >to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard the > >frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with > >disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. > > I observed > >yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are no > >longer available. > > > > > >I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by seeking > >wisdom from the group. > > > > > >Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for > >listening- > > > > > >Cathryn > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >info for blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > >co%40gmail.com > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > >virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ > > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > >database 4985 (20100330) __________ > > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 > >0verizon.net > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/30/10 > >06:32:00 > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:27:02 -0500 > From: David Andrews > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Mark: > > Two things: first, discussion of NFB philosophy is not really on > topic for this list, nonetheless I will try and briefly answer your > question. I think the problem comes in that you misunderstand why we > aren't in favor of some audio pedestrian signals, some forms of > currency identification etc. First, some of your language, that we > "rail against" does not lend itself to reasoned discussion. Your > examples to me imply that you think we are against any recognizable > identification of blindness. This isn't the reason. I think as a > group we are proud of ourselves as blind persons and what we have accomplished. > > On the other hand we feel that you should only ask for and use those > accommodations that are necessary, and when there are other ways of > accomplishing something, you should use those ways. > > You are drawing a black and white picture of the world, and NFB's > reaction to it, and the true picture is much more nuanced. > > Dave > > At 04:51 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: > >I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks > >here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for > >that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the > >NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, > >claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind > >"want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I > >hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a > >symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so > >that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of > >the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB > >might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of > >blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't > >understand this. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:37:34 -0500 > From: David Andrews > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Canes and Blindness > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Mark: > > I suppose it is a goal to "blend in and not stand out" as you say, > but not just in a physical sense. I want to be a part of society, an > equal, getting the bad and the good do along with my sighted > counterparts. With the tools available to me today, cane, dog etc., > I will always stand out some. So instead of trying to hide that I > need to be proud of my blindness and promote a positive attitude > towards those tools and blind people, so the stigma goes away. There > is a stigma because we are not equals -- our unemployment rate etc. > prove that. When we change that it won't matter that we carry a > cane, use a dog etc. We won't change attitudes by not using canes > and the like though. > > Dave > > At 08:00 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: > >I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, > >recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to > >identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being > >unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was > >put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they > >may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as > >blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not > >being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I > >am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems > >to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. > >For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane > >becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the identifying > >mark by which blind people are known and warn their surroundings that > >they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is one reason why I want > >to use a cane that's other than white with a red tip. It is very true > >that, even with my guide dog, when I wear sunglasses, I am often > >mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog user. It's like that old > >left-handed compliment, "No one would know you're blind, you do that > >so well." That infuriates me when it's said to me. It seems that > >some here are trying to avoid just this situation--being mistaken for > >a sighted person--when I should think that was the ultimate goal of > >any blind person--to blend in and not stand out. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:42:23 -0700 > From: Aser Tolentino > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > > I thought I'd chime in with a note about VoiceOver on the iPhone. > > Apple includes a mobile version of its screen reader as part of the > > operating system. It works with all Apple apps and many third party > > apps to varying degrees. I can type on the onscreen keyboard about > > as fast as I could on a numeric keypad. The phone starts at $199 > > with contract and runs about $90 a month for service. > > On Mar 30, 2010, at 11:41, "Steve Jacobson" > wrote: > > > Cathryn, > > > > Like Joe, I am also using an accessible cellphone through Sprint. > > Maybe I can shed a little light on a couple of things. > > > > First, the KNFB Reader phone is as expensive as it is mostly because > > of the KNFB reader software rather than the phone. However the > > total price has come down > > to around $1,500. Of this, $995 is for the software that converts > > print into spoken text. That is about the same price as the K-1000 > > software that performs that > > function on a personal computer. Speaking very generally, the phone > > itself is roughly $300 and the software or "screen reader" that > > makes the phone functions talk > > is around another $200. The price estimated here for the phone is > > based upon buying a phone from a dealer without going through a > > phone company. Generally if > > you buy a phone through a service provider and sign a two year > > contract or renew one for two years, the phone company in effect > > subsidizes the cost of a new > > phone by $150 or $200 or so. Therefore, if you sign a new contract > > or extend an existing one, it is very possible that you can get a > > phone that can be made > > accessible for $100 or so, but you still have to buy a "screen > > reader" for the phone which will probably cost you another $200. > > > > However, as Joe mentioned, there are some phones out there which > > have some speech built in. These phones can cost you less than $100 > > with a new contract or > > an extension, and no screen reader is required. However, phones > > with built-in speech generally cannot handle e-mail or web browsing, > > but they can usually handle > > text messaging now and allow access to your contacts. I believe > > that Sprint still has the LG Rumor 2 and the LG Lotus and there > > could be others by now that fit this > > category. > > > > You cannot add a screen reader to just any phone. Like computers, > > the more advanced phones have "operating systems," and some of these > > do allow a screen > > reader to be added. The most common operating system on phones that > > can be used with Sprint and Verizon is called Windows Mobile. There > > is a screen reader > > called Mobile Speak that works with many of these phones. Such > > phones are sometimes called SmartPhones or Pocket PC's. Common > > brands include Samsung > > and Joe mentioned and also HTC but there are others. Many of the > > Palm phones cannot be used with a screen reader. > > > > Many of the phones that work on T-Mobil and AT&T use the Simbian > > operating system. There is another screen reader that is used on > > these phones called TALKS. > > However, Mobile Speak also works on some of these phones, and TALKS > > works on certain Verizon phones now. Phones made by Nokia are most > > common in this > > category, but not all Nokia phones are capablt of supporting a > > screen reader. > > > > I just went through the process of buying an HTC Snap phone which I > > use on Sprint with Mobile Speak, and I found the whole business to > > be confusing at best. > > Therefore, I hope the above helps a little, but keep in mind that > > something I have written could easily have become out of date since > > I started this note. > > Still, if you can keep in mind that some phones are simply not > > accessible, some have some built-in accessibility for basics, and > > some that use Windows Mobile or > > Simbian operating systems can be made accessible with the addition > > of a screen reader, you will be off to a good start. Then also > > remember that you can usually get > > a big discount buying a phone from a service provider with a new > > contract or contract extension. Good luck. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Steve Jacobson , > > > > On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: > > > >> Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice > >> software to > >> install on a cell? > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- > >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >> Behalf Of Joe Orozco > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM > >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > > > >> I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from > >> Verizon, > >> better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through > >> Verizon, I > >> think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak > >> installed. > >> Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG > >> line that > >> provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both > >> carriers are > >> the best ones here in terms of reception. > > > >> Joe Orozco > > > >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > >> sleeves, > >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM > >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > >> Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > > > >> Greetings to All: > > > >> > > > >> Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best > >> companies, etc. > >> for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't > >> have $2,000.00 > >> to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard > >> the > >> frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with > >> disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. > >> I observed > >> yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are > >> no > >> longer available. > > > >> > > > >> I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by > >> seeking > >> wisdom from the group. > > > >> > > > >> Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for > >> listening- > > > >> > > > >> Cathryn > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for blindlaw: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > >> co%40gmail.com > >> > > > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > >> virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ > > > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > >> http://www.eset.com > >> > >> > > > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > >> signature > >> database 4985 (20100330) __________ > > > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > >> http://www.eset.com > >> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 > >> 0verizon.net > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: > >> 03/30/10 > >> 06:32:00 > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for blindlaw: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:52:00 -0400 > From: "Ross Doerr" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hey, before they cut off this thred of postings, where do I get one of those > gold-plated canes again? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Danielsen" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 6:43 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > > > Hi Mark, > > > > With due respect, I think you are misunderstanding the NFB's philosophy > > and > > some of our positions. The NFB didn't oppose audible signals, or the > > lawsuit > > seeking identifiable money, because we don't believe that blind people > > need > > accommodations. What we believe is that blind people ought to have the > > tools > > and receive the accommodations that are necessary, not just every > > conceivable accommodation. Now, you may well disagree with us on what > > accommodations are necessary, and that is all well and good. Even our own > > members don't always agree on everything, but we take a vote on the issues > > we disagree on and once a position has been voted on we stick with it > > until > > there is a vote to change it. The white cane is a tool that many blind > > people have found useful, primarily because it helps us get around. A > > guide > > dog is useful to other blind people for the same reason. In the NFB we > > generally believe that a blind person should be able to have access to > > these > > tools and make choices about the ones they will use. Symbolically, the > > white > > cane is important because it means we believe it is respectable to be > > blind, > > but that's not the only or even the primary reason to carry one. If one > > has > > some vision, a white cane may be useful and will certainly avoid > > misunderstandings arising from not being able to see very well. That said, > > of course being identified as blind has its down sides. A lot of us have > > decided that the benefits of carrying a cane outweigh those down sides. > > > > In a speech on the nature of independence, our long-time president Kenneth > > Jernigan pointed out that the white cane and Braille are simply tools that > > can make a person independent and that many blind people find useful. But > > he > > warned us against defining whether a person was independent based on > > whether > > or not they chose to use any given tool. Sometimes all of us forget this > > warning, but I still think it is generally what we believe. We do push for > > things like Braille literacy and cane training because those who are blind > > or have low vision should know what all of their options are. It's fine to > > make a choice, but we believe it should be an informed choice, and not one > > that is merely made because one doesn't want to seem blind because of > > society's attitude about blindness. Beyond that, the choice is up to the > > individual blind person. > > > > Chris > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk > > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:51 PM > > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > > > I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks here > > are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that > > matter. > > I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB rails against > > things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming that the blind > > don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," whatever. Same with > > identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a bunch of the same people > > saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of blindness! I want to > > proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can alter their behaviors > > appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm blind!" I should think > > the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a black cane and give no > > indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I > > just don't understand this. > > > > Mark BurningHawk > > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > > Namaste! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > > com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature > > database 4983 (20100329) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature > > database 4983 (20100329) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2776 - Release Date: 03/28/10 > 18:32:00 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:36:30 -0500 > From: "WB" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Canes and Blindness > Message-ID: <034501cad059$730318d0$59094a70$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > >From my reading of Mark's statement....and he can defend his own....but I > didn't see where he said not to use a cane. > > One problem in this e-mail trail and others is that many times, myself > included, read what we want to out of a person's statement rather than what > they really said. I guess, as in court, yowe cannot come to an amicable > resolution if the facts are not taken into consideration. > > I'm sure there will be a statement regarding this one that may take a word > or two out of context. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of David Andrews > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 2:38 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Canes and Blindness > > Mark: > > I suppose it is a goal to "blend in and not stand out" as you say, > but not just in a physical sense. I want to be a part of society, an > equal, getting the bad and the good do along with my sighted > counterparts. With the tools available to me today, cane, dog etc., > I will always stand out some. So instead of trying to hide that I > need to be proud of my blindness and promote a positive attitude > towards those tools and blind people, so the stigma goes away. There > is a stigma because we are not equals -- our unemployment rate etc. > prove that. When we change that it won't matter that we carry a > cane, use a dog etc. We won't change attitudes by not using canes > and the like though. > > Dave > > At 08:00 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: > >I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, > >recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to > >identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being > >unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was > >put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they > >may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as > >blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not > >being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I > >am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems > >to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. > >For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane > >becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the identifying > >mark by which blind people are known and warn their surroundings that > >they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is one reason why I want > >to use a cane that's other than white with a red tip. It is very true > >that, even with my guide dog, when I wear sunglasses, I am often > >mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog user. It's like that old > >left-handed compliment, "No one would know you're blind, you do that > >so well." That infuriates me when it's said to me. It seems that > >some here are trying to avoid just this situation--being mistaken for > >a sighted person--when I should think that was the ultimate goal of > >any blind person--to blend in and not stand out. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:37:55 -0500 > From: " Rob Tabor" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Good evening. > > Although this thread of conversation began as something quite amuzing and at > least arguably relevant to questions pertaining to alternately colored or > multi-colored travel canes and their compliance with white cane laws it has > evolved into an equally interesting but kokophanous diatribe over how we > perceive one another and how the world perceives as people with blindness or > otherwise low vision. In other words, the conversation is drifting far from > being relevant to a blind lawyers' discussion list for which it is intended. > I recognize, however, that Dave Anddrews has final judgment on this as list > owner/moderator. Perhaps someone should start a philosophy of blindness > discussion list where views like these can be aired and responded to. > Best regards, > Rob Tabor Vice president Douglas county (KS) Chapter NFB > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark BurningHawk" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 5:48 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > > > Oh cut that out. I was born blind, too, and I don't have insecurities > > about injuring someone; I've never been responsible for anyone else's > > injury that I didn't mean to, so stop making it personal when I'm trying > > to keep it general. Blindness is *NOT* a liability any more than > > clumsiness or large feet. Having bright red hair can e a distraction > > which can cause injury to someone who sees it. I protest loudly the idea > > that blind people, especially high-end, intelligent, lawyer-type blind > > people accept the fact that they may injure someone more readily than a > > sighted person with two left feet might. When I see professionals who > > are blind accepting this shame instead of actively working to correct it, > > I am sad because this attitude will trickle down to disrupt my life when > > I do something unconventional. So knock off that psychology crap, > > please; I use a guide dog, not a cane anyway. > > > > Mark BurningHawk > > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > > Namaste! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rob.tabor%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:41:23 -0500 > From: "WB" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Message-ID: <034601cad05a$20734620$6159d260$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I'm a member of NFB and have heard the things that Mark was speaking of. > Dave, you may be taking your view which you stated. The fact is that there > are many members who do what Mark spoke of. And the perception of many in > the blind community is as such. > > I've heard an NFB member rail against the I-Phone because they wanted to > dissuade a person from purchasing it so they could waste money on the KNFB > reader which is way to expensive. I've heard many a philosophy on the use > of straight canes and why we shouldn't use a folding cane. > > The list goes on and on. I think a point was being made that those who wish > to disagree with mark are blatantly overlooking. > > Again, he can defend his own statements but I've been reading the e-mails > relating to this topic. Once again, I and others have gotten on their > soapbox on a topic that started lightly. Well, here's to reading some more. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of David Andrews > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 2:27 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > > Mark: > > Two things: first, discussion of NFB philosophy is not really on > topic for this list, nonetheless I will try and briefly answer your > question. I think the problem comes in that you misunderstand why we > aren't in favor of some audio pedestrian signals, some forms of > currency identification etc. First, some of your language, that we > "rail against" does not lend itself to reasoned discussion. Your > examples to me imply that you think we are against any recognizable > identification of blindness. This isn't the reason. I think as a > group we are proud of ourselves as blind persons and what we have > accomplished. > > On the other hand we feel that you should only ask for and use those > accommodations that are necessary, and when there are other ways of > accomplishing something, you should use those ways. > > You are drawing a black and white picture of the world, and NFB's > reaction to it, and the true picture is much more nuanced. > > Dave > > At 04:51 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: > >I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks > >here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for > >that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the > >NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, > >claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind > >"want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I > >hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a > >symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so > >that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of > >the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB > >might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of > >blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't > >understand this. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:41:33 -0500 > From: David Andrews > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > There is -- try nfb-talk. To subscribe either go to: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org > > or send e-mail to nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org and put the word > subscribe in the subject line by itself. > > Dave > > At 05:37 PM 3/30/2010, you wrote: > >Good evening. > > > >Although this thread of conversation began as something quite > >amuzing and at least arguably relevant to questions pertaining to > >alternately colored or multi-colored travel canes and their > >compliance with white cane laws it has evolved into an equally > >interesting but kokophanous diatribe over how we perceive one > >another and how the world perceives as people with blindness or > >otherwise low vision. In other words, the conversation is drifting > >far from being relevant to a blind lawyers' discussion list for > >which it is intended. I recognize, however, that Dave Anddrews has > >final judgment on this as list owner/moderator. Perhaps someone > >should start a philosophy of blindness discussion list where views > >like these can be aired and responded to. > >Best regards, > >Rob Tabor Vice president Douglas county (KS) Chapter NFB > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:42:43 -0700 > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > Message-ID: <68E61DE2FA7F410EA387623187EB1870 at Blind> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hello: > > I have had the nokia, forgot the model, running talks and then moved to the > Motorola Q9 running mobilespeaks. At first I found Talks superior but it > was obviously due to my familiarity with it and the Nokia I had been using. > I soon discovered the "MotoQ" running the mobilespeaks software was much > slicker. I had access to basically all blackberry type options although I > did not pay for the internet and cannot say how that worked. Currently I am > using an iPhone with "voiceover" which is inadequate if you are totally > blind but usable with limited vision and worth the hassle. > > Jimi > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve Jacobson > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:41 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > > Cathryn, > > Like Joe, I am also using an accessible cellphone through Sprint. Maybe I > can shed a little light on a couple of things. > > First, the KNFB Reader phone is as expensive as it is mostly because of the > KNFB reader software rather than the phone. However the total price has > come down > to around $1,500. Of this, $995 is for the software that converts print > into spoken text. That is about the same price as the K-1000 software that > performs that > function on a personal computer. Speaking very generally, the phone itself > is roughly $300 and the software or "screen reader" that makes the phone > functions talk > is around another $200. The price estimated here for the phone is based > upon buying a phone from a dealer without going through a phone company. > Generally if > you buy a phone through a service provider and sign a two year contract or > renew one for two years, the phone company in effect subsidizes the cost of > a new > phone by $150 or $200 or so. Therefore, if you sign a new contract or > extend an existing one, it is very possible that you can get a phone that > can be made > accessible for $100 or so, but you still have to buy a "screen reader" for > the phone which will probably cost you another $200. > > However, as Joe mentioned, there are some phones out there which have some > speech built in. These phones can cost you less than $100 with a new > contract or > an extension, and no screen reader is required. However, phones with > built-in speech generally cannot handle e-mail or web browsing, but they can > usually handle > text messaging now and allow access to your contacts. I believe that Sprint > still has the LG Rumor 2 and the LG Lotus and there could be others by now > that fit this > category. > > You cannot add a screen reader to just any phone. Like computers, the more > advanced phones have "operating systems," and some of these do allow a > screen > reader to be added. The most common operating system on phones that can be > used with Sprint and Verizon is called Windows Mobile. There is a screen > reader > called Mobile Speak that works with many of these phones. Such phones are > sometimes called SmartPhones or Pocket PC's. Common brands include Samsung > and Joe mentioned and also HTC but there are others. Many of the Palm > phones cannot be used with a screen reader. > > Many of the phones that work on T-Mobil and AT&T use the Simbian operating > system. There is another screen reader that is used on these phones called > TALKS. > However, Mobile Speak also works on some of these phones, and TALKS works on > certain Verizon phones now. Phones made by Nokia are most common in this > category, but not all Nokia phones are capablt of supporting a screen > reader. > > I just went through the process of buying an HTC Snap phone which I use on > Sprint with Mobile Speak, and I found the whole business to be confusing at > best. > Therefore, I hope the above helps a little, but keep in mind that something > I have written could easily have become out of date since I started this > note. > Still, if you can keep in mind that some phones are simply not accessible, > some have some built-in accessibility for basics, and some that use Windows > Mobile or > Simbian operating systems can be made accessible with the addition of a > screen reader, you will be off to a good start. Then also remember that you > can usually get > a big discount buying a phone from a service provider with a new contract or > contract extension. Good luck. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson , > > On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: > > >Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice software > to > >install on a cell? > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >Behalf Of Joe Orozco > >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM > >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > > >I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from Verizon, > >better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through Verizon, I > >think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak > installed. > >Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG line that > >provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both carriers are > >the best ones here in terms of reception. > > >Joe Orozco > > >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette > >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM > >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > >Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access > > >Greetings to All: > > > > > >Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best > >companies, etc. > >for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't > >have $2,000.00 > >to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard the > >frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with > >disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. > > I observed > >yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are no > >longer available. > > > > > >I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by seeking > >wisdom from the group. > > > > > >Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for > >listening- > > > > > >Cathryn > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >info for blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > >co%40gmail.com > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > >virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ > > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > >database 4985 (20100330) __________ > > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally% > 4 > >0verizon.net > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/30/10 > >06:32:00 > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40 > visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4986 (20100330) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4986 (20100330) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:20:17 -0400 > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear all, > > On a more serious topic, what is the best course of action to take in a > situation where police officers do not know of service animal accessibility > laws, or will not enforce these laws even if they are aware of them? A > couple of years ago I wound up suing a Chinatown curbside carrier for not > allowing my Seeing Eye dog on one of their buses. Since that incident I > have monitored other discrimination cases where the police officers on the > scene either partially or mostly took the side of the public business, > claiming the business could refuse whoever they want or suggesting > alternative services to avoid future discrimination. In the moment it seems > as though there is very little one can do to trump the authority of the > local police department, which seems unfair, but there must surely be > something one can do to educate what seems to be a widespread ignorance > among the law enforcement community on the issue. Are there not standard > training procedures for most law enforcement departments? Are there perhaps > legal maneuvers one could use to catch the attention of departments that do > not help protect the rights of service animal handlers? With all respect, > please do not suggest my going through NAGDU. Otherwise, thank you in > advance for any light you can shed. > > Regards, > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4986 (20100330) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:45:45 -0700 > From: Mark BurningHawk > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > I made a promise to take this off list, so that's why I'm not > defending my statements. :) I'd just be repeating myself at this > point; I have tried to make my words stand on their own, to not make > it personal and to keep my rhetoric to a minimum. My apologies if I > failed, but WB's right; things like the railing against the Iphone, > the amazingly harsh status *AGAINST* guide dogs, etc., have really > turned me off to NFB, as well as the whole "you will be assimilated," > thing. This is why I don't join *ANY* organization; I just don't fit > in. :) > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:17:38 -0700 > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Joe, > Much depends on the jurisdiction that you are in. One option is to request a > police supervisor such as a sergeant or contact a shift or watch commander > to address the issue. Here in California I am familiar with a situation > where a guide dog user was not allowed in a store with his dog and the > police warned the business owner that the dog user could sue him and file a > civil rights complaint. The important thing is to know the laws in each > jurisdiction as well as the relevant sections of the ADA regarding public > businesses and accommodations. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 6:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement > > > > Dear all, > > > > On a more serious topic, what is the best course of action to take in a > > situation where police officers do not know of service animal > > accessibility > > laws, or will not enforce these laws even if they are aware of them? A > > couple of years ago I wound up suing a Chinatown curbside carrier for not > > allowing my Seeing Eye dog on one of their buses. Since that incident I > > have monitored other discrimination cases where the police officers on the > > scene either partially or mostly took the side of the public business, > > claiming the business could refuse whoever they want or suggesting > > alternative services to avoid future discrimination. In the moment it > > seems > > as though there is very little one can do to trump the authority of the > > local police department, which seems unfair, but there must surely be > > something one can do to educate what seems to be a widespread ignorance > > among the law enforcement community on the issue. Are there not standard > > training procedures for most law enforcement departments? Are there > > perhaps > > legal maneuvers one could use to catch the attention of departments that > > do > > not help protect the rights of service animal handlers? With all respect, > > please do not suggest my going through NAGDU. Otherwise, thank you in > > advance for any light you can shed. > > > > Regards, > > > > Joe Orozco > > > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature > > database 4986 (20100330) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:00:41 -0500 > From: " Rob Tabor" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement > Message-ID: <3239D11BD0AD48EF8EC29BA6A3206D85 at Rob> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi, Joe and all. > > When I acquired my dog guide from The Seeing Eye? in 1980 all of us in the > dog navigation training class were provided a copy of the dog guide use > protection clause in the White Cane Act applicable to our respective home > states. I suspect The Seeing Eye? and other dog guide training schools > provide the same service to their graduates. That being the case, the > obvious first step is to carry the document and show it to the officer who > is questioning your right to bring the service animal. If the officer is not > persuaded that s/he has seen the law of the land, the next step is to file a > formal complaint with the chief of police or to follow whatever process or > apparatus is available in your municipal government to launch a public > grievance against the actions of the officer. There is always the option of > taking one's complaint to the "court of public opinion" in the form of > letters to the newspaper editor, contacting a newspaper or TV reporter about > doing a feature on the issue, etc. If these kinder and gentler measures fail > to yield the desired results, filing a law suit against the police > department under Title 2 of ADA or the applicable state anti-discrimination > law may prove to be necessary. One thinng is for sure. Either you will > acquire a reputation in town as a troublemaker or people will learn you are > not a person to be trifled with. Take your pick. In any event, good luck in > these endeavors. > > best regards > Rob Tabor, J.D, Vice president, Douglas County Chapter, NFB > of Kansas > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement > > > > Dear all, > > > > On a more serious topic, what is the best course of action to take in a > > situation where police officers do not know of service animal > > accessibility > > laws, or will not enforce these laws even if they are aware of them? A > > couple of years ago I wound up suing a Chinatown curbside carrier for not > > allowing my Seeing Eye dog on one of their buses. Since that incident I > > have monitored other discrimination cases where the police officers on the > > scene either partially or mostly took the side of the public business, > > claiming the business could refuse whoever they want or suggesting > > alternative services to avoid future discrimination. In the moment it > > seems > > as though there is very little one can do to trump the authority of the > > local police department, which seems unfair, but there must surely be > > something one can do to educate what seems to be a widespread ignorance > > among the law enforcement community on the issue. Are there not standard > > training procedures for most law enforcement departments? Are there > > perhaps > > legal maneuvers one could use to catch the attention of departments that > > do > > not help protect the rights of service animal handlers? With all respect, > > please do not suggest my going through NAGDU. Otherwise, thank you in > > advance for any light you can shed. > > > > Regards, > > > > Joe Orozco > > > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature > > database 4986 (20100330) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rob.tabor%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:42:15 -0700 > From: "Susan Kelly" > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] Arizona Attorney magazine > Message-ID: > <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D6CE1 at EVS02.central.pima.gov> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Does anyone else on the list practice in Arizona? > > I emailed the State Bar last week to find out if there was either a > text-only on-line version of the Arizona Attorney magazine, or an audio > version, as it has become increasingly difficult to read the publication > even with my CCTV and/or screen magnification software. The format of > the on-line version does not work at all with screen narration, as it > keeps getting "off track" into the other fluff on the sides of the > articles and notices. Of course, the Bar has not bothered to even > acknowledge my email as of yet. So - would anyone on this list happen > to know the answer? I ask because the magazine is often the first, or > at least the most in-depth, notification of rule changes, convention > information, etc. for Arizona.... > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 5675 bytes > Desc: image001.jpg > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 70, Issue 24 > **************************************** From bnaccari at cox.net Wed Mar 31 20:54:23 2010 From: bnaccari at cox.net (Bruce E. Naccari) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:54:23 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Educating the police and obtaining White Cane /guide dog legal compliance Message-ID: <20100331165423.JVGSS.88989.imail@eastrmwml28> On the topic of how one can best proceed to get enforcement of the rights of guide dog users and the White Cane laws: Many municipalities and states have Human rights Commissions or Human Relations Commissions with rather broad powers to enforce state or local antidiscrimination laws and to assess and then seek to achieve a conciliation of grievances involving discrimination complaints or complaints of poor relations between or among groups in the population. If your locality or state has such an agency, anyone with a grievance involving police failure or business or public accommodation operators’ failures to enforce and/or comply with the White Cane laws and laws protecting the right to use service animals like guide dogs should in my opinion consider filing a complaint there. Because these agencies usually are charged with a duty to try to achieve an amicable conciliation of the complaint before a hearing can be held, their procedures are useful for achieving results in cases of deprivation of rights with no or low special damages in dollars and where litigation would be lengthy and a judge with the discretion to do so might not grant adequate attorney’s fees. While I served first as Legal Counsel to the New Orleans Commission and then later as a commissioner we successfully conciliated several complaints against restaurants, bars, taxi companies, etc., involving the exclusion of guide dogs and discrimination against blind customers. In my opinion getting such a commission to become your advocate with the local police will likely prove to be more fruitful than filing Internal Affairs Division/public Integrity Division complaints with eh police department. Police tend to stiffen and back each other when a complaint is filed against one of their own but will often respond amicably and cooperatively to conciliatory procedures which seem less like an attack. And if there is a local or state Commission of this sort I would contact it to ask it in a formal petition to ensure that Police Officer Standard Training classes and/or Police Academy classes in your jurisdiction are getting adequate education about the White Cane laws and the pertinent antidiscrimination laws and about the rights of cane and service animal users. I will leave it to the wisdom of the NFB’s government relations staff and lobbyists to decide if it would be worth the time and effort to draft model amendments to the pertinent laws that would if enacted explicitly require POST an similar training of law enforcement officers to include formal instruction in this area and to require that applicants for driver’s licenses when tested show familiarity with the White Cane safety laws. From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Wed Mar 31 21:01:46 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:01:46 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: ABA GPSolo Diversity and Young Lawyers Fellowship Programs - Extended to April 16, 2010 Message-ID: <2F550B7A3DCE47D2BAF94DD2E69BA925@labarre> I recommend this program to all who meet the eligibility criteria, namely, lawyers with disabilities who are in solo or small practices. It's a great way to get involved in the ABA. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: ABA General Practice, Solo and Small Firm Division To: GP-LEADERSHIP at MAIL.ABANET.ORG Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 2:41 PM Subject: ABA GPSolo Diversity and Young Lawyers Fellowship Programs - Extended to April 16, 2010 Call for Diversity Fellowship Nominations: The ABA General Practice, Solo and Small Firm Division is pleased to announce the sponsorship of four Diversity fellowships in the Division during the 2010-2011 bar year. The program is designed to promote diversity within the Division and the ABA, while providing leadership development opportunities within the Division for women, attorneys of color, and those with disabilities and persons of differing sexual orientations and gender identities. Nomination applications deadline is extended to April 16, 2010. Young Lawyers Fellowship Nominations The ABA General Practice, Solo and Small Firm Division is pleased to announce the sponsorship of two Young Lawyer fellowships in the Division during the 2010-2011 bar year. The GPSolo Division is committed to increasing the participation of young lawyers in Division activities. This program will provide young lawyers the opportunity to become actively and integrally involved in the Division's meetings and committees. Nomination applications deadline is extended to April 16, 2010. For further any information on the Division's fellowship programs please contact:the GPSolo Division at (312) 988-5648, (312) 988-5711 or genpractice at abanet.org. Visit our website at www.abanet.org/genpractice or download a DiversityFellowshipApplication1011.doc or a YoungLawyersFellowshipApplication1011.doc Mail, fax or email completed applications and nominations to: American Bar Association GPSolo and Small Firm Division (Diversity or Young Lawyers) Fellowship Program Dee C. Lee, Finance and Committees Coordinator 321 N. Clark Street Chicago, IL 60654 Fax (312) 988-5711 Email: genpractice at abanet.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To remove yourself from this listserv, please click here http://www.abanet.org/abanet/common/email/listserv/listcommands.cfm?parm=unsubscribe&listgroup=gp-leadership -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: attad214.gif Type: image/gif Size: 5270 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 31 23:38:26 2010 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:38:26 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement In-Reply-To: <20100331164425.82BYP.88872.imail@eastrmwml28> References: <20100331164425.82BYP.88872.imail@eastrmwml28> Message-ID: <1771F95576B44B3BB7080DBFA0E558F4@spike> When I lived in Michigan years ago a question on the written driving test asked what a motorist should do when they saw a blind person with a white cane. I don't know if it is still on the tests there as I have not lived there since the mid-80's. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce E. Naccari" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 1:44 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement > On the topic of how one can best proceed to get enforcement of the rights > of guide dog users and the White Cane laws: Many municipalities and > states have Human rights Commissions or Human Relations Commissions with > rather broad powers to enforce state or local antidiscrimination laws and > to assess and then seek to achieve a conciliation of grievances involving > discrimination complaints or complaints of poor relations between or among > groups in the population. If your locality or state has such an agency, > anyone with a grievance involving police failure or business or public > accommodation operators’ failures to enforce and/or comply with the White > Cane laws and laws protecting the right to use service animals like guide > dogs should in my opinion consider filing a complaint there. Because these > agencies usually are charged with a duty to try to achieve an amicable > conciliation of the complaint before a hearing can be held, their > procedures are useful for achieving results in cases of deprivation of > rights with no or low special damages in dollars and where litigation > would be lengthy and a judge with the discretion to do so might not grant > adequate attorney’s fees. While I served first as Legal Counsel to the > New Orleans Commission and then later as a commissioner we successfully > conciliated several complaints against restaurants, bars, taxi companies, > etc., involving the exclusion of guide dogs and discrimination against > blind customers. In my opinion getting such a commission to become your > advocate with the local police will likely prove to be more fruitful than > filing Internal Affairs Division/public Integrity Division complaints with > eh police department. Police tend to stiffen and back each other when a > complaint is filed against one of their own but will often respond > amicably and cooperatively to conciliatory procedures which seem less like > an attack. And if there is a local or state Commission of this sort I > would contact it to ask it in a formal petition to ensure that Police > Officer Standard Training classes and/or Police Academy classes in your > jurisdiction are getting adequate education about the White Cane laws and > the pertinent antidiscrimination laws and about the rights of cane and > service animal users. I will leave it to the wisdom of the NFB’s > government relations staff and lobbyists to decide if it would be worth > the time and effort to draft model amendments to the pertinent laws that > would if enacted explicitly require POST an similar training of law > enforcement officers to include formal instruction in this area and to > require that applicants for driver’s licenses when tested show familiarity > with the White Cane safety laws. > ---- blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org wrote: >> Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) >> 2. Re: A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access (Steve Jacobson) >> 3. Re: Pimp My Cane (David Andrews) >> 4. Canes and Blindness (David Andrews) >> 5. Re: A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access (Aser Tolentino) >> 6. Re: Pimp My Cane (Ross Doerr) >> 7. Re: Canes and Blindness (WB) >> 8. Re: Pimp My Cane ( Rob Tabor) >> 9. Re: Pimp My Cane (WB) >> 10. Re: Pimp My Cane (David Andrews) >> 11. Re: A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access (James Weisberg) >> 12. Educating Law Enforcement (Joe Orozco) >> 13. Re: Pimp My Cane (Mark BurningHawk) >> 14. Re: Educating Law Enforcement (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) >> 15. Re: Educating Law Enforcement ( Rob Tabor) >> 16. Arizona Attorney magazine (Susan Kelly) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:18:38 -0600 >> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> Message-ID: <1396EC6B323A463B922D4F129B95066D at valtd> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Hi Cathryn: >> >> MobileSpeak, the competition for cell phone screen reader, will also work >> on >> the HTC Ozone if you choose to stay with Verizon. >> >> Aside from these, there are several mostly Nokia phones that Talks can >> run >> on. Here are a few: N85, N86, 6120 Classic, E65, E66, E61I, N95, N96, >> ETC. >> I hear that the new Talks5 soon to be released will even work on Nokia >> Touch >> Screen phones. >> >> Please note that Nokia phones use GSM technology; if you choose a Nokia >> phone, you will be stuck with either AT&T or T-Mobile for the most part. >> It >> is my understanding that the HTC Ozone supports both GSM and CDMA >> platforms; >> with this phone, you can still keep Verizon if that is your preference. >> >> In the event that you need to use the KNFB Reader, this product DOES NOT >> currently work on any phones running Windows Mobile operating systems. >> It >> works primarily on Nokia phones such as the N86, N82, and 6120 Classic to >> mention a few. >> >> To learn more about different phones that you can use with a screen >> reader, >> please consider subscribing to the Blind Phones List using the address >> below: >> >> blindphones-subscribe at mosenexplosion.com >> >> Hope the foregoing has been helpful. >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:41:12 -0500 >> From: "Steve Jacobson" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Cathryn, >> >> Like Joe, I am also using an accessible cellphone through Sprint. Maybe >> I can shed a little light on a couple of things. >> >> First, the KNFB Reader phone is as expensive as it is mostly because of >> the KNFB reader software rather than the phone. However the total price >> has come down >> to around $1,500. Of this, $995 is for the software that converts print >> into spoken text. That is about the same price as the K-1000 software >> that performs that >> function on a personal computer. Speaking very generally, the phone >> itself is roughly $300 and the software or "screen reader" that makes the >> phone functions talk >> is around another $200. The price estimated here for the phone is based >> upon buying a phone from a dealer without going through a phone company. >> Generally if >> you buy a phone through a service provider and sign a two year contract >> or renew one for two years, the phone company in effect subsidizes the >> cost of a new >> phone by $150 or $200 or so. Therefore, if you sign a new contract or >> extend an existing one, it is very possible that you can get a phone that >> can be made >> accessible for $100 or so, but you still have to buy a "screen reader" >> for the phone which will probably cost you another $200. >> >> However, as Joe mentioned, there are some phones out there which have >> some speech built in. These phones can cost you less than $100 with a >> new contract or >> an extension, and no screen reader is required. However, phones with >> built-in speech generally cannot handle e-mail or web browsing, but they >> can usually handle >> text messaging now and allow access to your contacts. I believe that >> Sprint still has the LG Rumor 2 and the LG Lotus and there could be >> others by now that fit this >> category. >> >> You cannot add a screen reader to just any phone. Like computers, the >> more advanced phones have "operating systems," and some of these do allow >> a screen >> reader to be added. The most common operating system on phones that can >> be used with Sprint and Verizon is called Windows Mobile. There is a >> screen reader >> called Mobile Speak that works with many of these phones. Such phones >> are sometimes called SmartPhones or Pocket PC's. Common brands include >> Samsung >> and Joe mentioned and also HTC but there are others. Many of the Palm >> phones cannot be used with a screen reader. >> >> Many of the phones that work on T-Mobil and AT&T use the Simbian >> operating system. There is another screen reader that is used on these >> phones called TALKS. >> However, Mobile Speak also works on some of these phones, and TALKS works >> on certain Verizon phones now. Phones made by Nokia are most common in >> this >> category, but not all Nokia phones are capablt of supporting a screen >> reader. >> >> I just went through the process of buying an HTC Snap phone which I use >> on Sprint with Mobile Speak, and I found the whole business to be >> confusing at best. >> Therefore, I hope the above helps a little, but keep in mind that >> something I have written could easily have become out of date since I >> started this note. >> Still, if you can keep in mind that some phones are simply not >> accessible, some have some built-in accessibility for basics, and some >> that use Windows Mobile or >> Simbian operating systems can be made accessible with the addition of a >> screen reader, you will be off to a good start. Then also remember that >> you can usually get >> a big discount buying a phone from a service provider with a new contract >> or contract extension. Good luck. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson , >> >> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: >> >> >Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice >> >software to >> >install on a cell? >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >On >> >Behalf Of Joe Orozco >> >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM >> >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> >> >I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from Verizon, >> >better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through Verizon, >> >I >> >think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak >> >installed. >> >Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG line >> >that >> >provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both carriers >> >are >> >the best ones here in terms of reception. >> >> >Joe Orozco >> >> >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> >sleeves, >> >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >> >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM >> >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> >Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> >> >Greetings to All: >> >> > >> >> >Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best >> >companies, etc. >> >for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't >> >have $2,000.00 >> >to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard the >> >frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with >> >disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. >> > I observed >> >yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are no >> >longer available. >> >> > >> >> >I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by seeking >> >wisdom from the group. >> >> > >> >> >Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for >> >listening- >> >> > >> >> >Cathryn >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >blindlaw mailing list >> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >info for blindlaw: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >> >co%40gmail.com >> > >> >> >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> >virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ >> >> >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >http://www.eset.com >> > >> > >> >> >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> >signature >> >database 4985 (20100330) __________ >> >> >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >http://www.eset.com >> > >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >blindlaw mailing list >> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >blindlaw: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 >> >0verizon.net >> >No virus found in this incoming message. >> >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> >Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/30/10 >> >06:32:00 >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >blindlaw mailing list >> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >blindlaw: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:27:02 -0500 >> From: David Andrews >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >> >> Mark: >> >> Two things: first, discussion of NFB philosophy is not really on >> topic for this list, nonetheless I will try and briefly answer your >> question. I think the problem comes in that you misunderstand why we >> aren't in favor of some audio pedestrian signals, some forms of >> currency identification etc. First, some of your language, that we >> "rail against" does not lend itself to reasoned discussion. Your >> examples to me imply that you think we are against any recognizable >> identification of blindness. This isn't the reason. I think as a >> group we are proud of ourselves as blind persons and what we have >> accomplished. >> >> On the other hand we feel that you should only ask for and use those >> accommodations that are necessary, and when there are other ways of >> accomplishing something, you should use those ways. >> >> You are drawing a black and white picture of the world, and NFB's >> reaction to it, and the true picture is much more nuanced. >> >> Dave >> >> At 04:51 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: >> >I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks >> >here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for >> >that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the >> >NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, >> >claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind >> >"want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I >> >hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a >> >symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so >> >that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of >> >the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB >> >might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of >> >blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't >> >understand this. >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:37:34 -0500 >> From: David Andrews >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: [blindlaw] Canes and Blindness >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >> >> Mark: >> >> I suppose it is a goal to "blend in and not stand out" as you say, >> but not just in a physical sense. I want to be a part of society, an >> equal, getting the bad and the good do along with my sighted >> counterparts. With the tools available to me today, cane, dog etc., >> I will always stand out some. So instead of trying to hide that I >> need to be proud of my blindness and promote a positive attitude >> towards those tools and blind people, so the stigma goes away. There >> is a stigma because we are not equals -- our unemployment rate etc. >> prove that. When we change that it won't matter that we carry a >> cane, use a dog etc. We won't change attitudes by not using canes >> and the like though. >> >> Dave >> >> At 08:00 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: >> >I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, >> >recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to >> >identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being >> >unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was >> >put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they >> >may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as >> >blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not >> >being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I >> >am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems >> >to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. >> >For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane >> >becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the identifying >> >mark by which blind people are known and warn their surroundings that >> >they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is one reason why I want >> >to use a cane that's other than white with a red tip. It is very true >> >that, even with my guide dog, when I wear sunglasses, I am often >> >mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog user. It's like that old >> >left-handed compliment, "No one would know you're blind, you do that >> >so well." That infuriates me when it's said to me. It seems that >> >some here are trying to avoid just this situation--being mistaken for >> >a sighted person--when I should think that was the ultimate goal of >> >any blind person--to blend in and not stand out. >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:42:23 -0700 >> From: Aser Tolentino >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes >> >> > I thought I'd chime in with a note about VoiceOver on the iPhone. >> > Apple includes a mobile version of its screen reader as part of the >> > operating system. It works with all Apple apps and many third party >> > apps to varying degrees. I can type on the onscreen keyboard about >> > as fast as I could on a numeric keypad. The phone starts at $199 >> > with contract and runs about $90 a month for service. >> >> On Mar 30, 2010, at 11:41, "Steve Jacobson" >> wrote: >> >> > Cathryn, >> > >> > Like Joe, I am also using an accessible cellphone through Sprint. >> > Maybe I can shed a little light on a couple of things. >> > >> > First, the KNFB Reader phone is as expensive as it is mostly because >> > of the KNFB reader software rather than the phone. However the >> > total price has come down >> > to around $1,500. Of this, $995 is for the software that converts >> > print into spoken text. That is about the same price as the K-1000 >> > software that performs that >> > function on a personal computer. Speaking very generally, the phone >> > itself is roughly $300 and the software or "screen reader" that >> > makes the phone functions talk >> > is around another $200. The price estimated here for the phone is >> > based upon buying a phone from a dealer without going through a >> > phone company. Generally if >> > you buy a phone through a service provider and sign a two year >> > contract or renew one for two years, the phone company in effect >> > subsidizes the cost of a new >> > phone by $150 or $200 or so. Therefore, if you sign a new contract >> > or extend an existing one, it is very possible that you can get a >> > phone that can be made >> > accessible for $100 or so, but you still have to buy a "screen >> > reader" for the phone which will probably cost you another $200. >> > >> > However, as Joe mentioned, there are some phones out there which >> > have some speech built in. These phones can cost you less than $100 >> > with a new contract or >> > an extension, and no screen reader is required. However, phones >> > with built-in speech generally cannot handle e-mail or web browsing, >> > but they can usually handle >> > text messaging now and allow access to your contacts. I believe >> > that Sprint still has the LG Rumor 2 and the LG Lotus and there >> > could be others by now that fit this >> > category. >> > >> > You cannot add a screen reader to just any phone. Like computers, >> > the more advanced phones have "operating systems," and some of these >> > do allow a screen >> > reader to be added. The most common operating system on phones that >> > can be used with Sprint and Verizon is called Windows Mobile. There >> > is a screen reader >> > called Mobile Speak that works with many of these phones. Such >> > phones are sometimes called SmartPhones or Pocket PC's. Common >> > brands include Samsung >> > and Joe mentioned and also HTC but there are others. Many of the >> > Palm phones cannot be used with a screen reader. >> > >> > Many of the phones that work on T-Mobil and AT&T use the Simbian >> > operating system. There is another screen reader that is used on >> > these phones called TALKS. >> > However, Mobile Speak also works on some of these phones, and TALKS >> > works on certain Verizon phones now. Phones made by Nokia are most >> > common in this >> > category, but not all Nokia phones are capablt of supporting a >> > screen reader. >> > >> > I just went through the process of buying an HTC Snap phone which I >> > use on Sprint with Mobile Speak, and I found the whole business to >> > be confusing at best. >> > Therefore, I hope the above helps a little, but keep in mind that >> > something I have written could easily have become out of date since >> > I started this note. >> > Still, if you can keep in mind that some phones are simply not >> > accessible, some have some built-in accessibility for basics, and >> > some that use Windows Mobile or >> > Simbian operating systems can be made accessible with the addition >> > of a screen reader, you will be off to a good start. Then also >> > remember that you can usually get >> > a big discount buying a phone from a service provider with a new >> > contract or contract extension. Good luck. >> > >> > Best regards, >> > >> > Steve Jacobson , >> > >> > On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: >> > >> >> Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice >> >> software to >> >> install on a cell? >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- >> >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> >> Behalf Of Joe Orozco >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM >> >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> > >> >> I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from >> >> Verizon, >> >> better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through >> >> Verizon, I >> >> think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak >> >> installed. >> >> Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG >> >> line that >> >> provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both >> >> carriers are >> >> the best ones here in terms of reception. >> > >> >> Joe Orozco >> > >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> >> sleeves, >> >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM >> >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> >> Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> > >> >> Greetings to All: >> > >> >> >> > >> >> Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best >> >> companies, etc. >> >> for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't >> >> have $2,000.00 >> >> to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard >> >> the >> >> frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with >> >> disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. >> >> I observed >> >> yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are >> >> no >> >> longer available. >> > >> >> >> > >> >> I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by >> >> seeking >> >> wisdom from the group. >> > >> >> >> > >> >> Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for >> >> listening- >> > >> >> >> > >> >> Cathryn >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info for blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >> >> co%40gmail.com >> >> >> > >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> >> virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ >> > >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> >> signature >> >> database 4985 (20100330) __________ >> > >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 >> >> 0verizon.net >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> >> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: >> >> 03/30/10 >> >> 06:32:00 >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> for blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com >> > >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:52:00 -0400 >> From: "Ross Doerr" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Hey, before they cut off this thred of postings, where do I get one of >> those >> gold-plated canes again? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Danielsen" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 6:43 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >> > Hi Mark, >> > >> > With due respect, I think you are misunderstanding the NFB's philosophy >> > and >> > some of our positions. The NFB didn't oppose audible signals, or the >> > lawsuit >> > seeking identifiable money, because we don't believe that blind people >> > need >> > accommodations. What we believe is that blind people ought to have the >> > tools >> > and receive the accommodations that are necessary, not just every >> > conceivable accommodation. Now, you may well disagree with us on what >> > accommodations are necessary, and that is all well and good. Even our >> > own >> > members don't always agree on everything, but we take a vote on the >> > issues >> > we disagree on and once a position has been voted on we stick with it >> > until >> > there is a vote to change it. The white cane is a tool that many blind >> > people have found useful, primarily because it helps us get around. A >> > guide >> > dog is useful to other blind people for the same reason. In the NFB we >> > generally believe that a blind person should be able to have access to >> > these >> > tools and make choices about the ones they will use. Symbolically, the >> > white >> > cane is important because it means we believe it is respectable to be >> > blind, >> > but that's not the only or even the primary reason to carry one. If one >> > has >> > some vision, a white cane may be useful and will certainly avoid >> > misunderstandings arising from not being able to see very well. That >> > said, >> > of course being identified as blind has its down sides. A lot of us >> > have >> > decided that the benefits of carrying a cane outweigh those down sides. >> > >> > In a speech on the nature of independence, our long-time president >> > Kenneth >> > Jernigan pointed out that the white cane and Braille are simply tools >> > that >> > can make a person independent and that many blind people find useful. >> > But >> > he >> > warned us against defining whether a person was independent based on >> > whether >> > or not they chose to use any given tool. Sometimes all of us forget >> > this >> > warning, but I still think it is generally what we believe. We do push >> > for >> > things like Braille literacy and cane training because those who are >> > blind >> > or have low vision should know what all of their options are. It's fine >> > to >> > make a choice, but we believe it should be an informed choice, and not >> > one >> > that is merely made because one doesn't want to seem blind because of >> > society's attitude about blindness. Beyond that, the choice is up to >> > the >> > individual blind person. >> > >> > Chris >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> > On >> > Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk >> > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:51 PM >> > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> > >> > I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks >> > here >> > are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for that >> > matter. >> > I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the NFB rails >> > against >> > things like audible cross walk signals and so on, claiming that the >> > blind >> > don't need them, that it's not what the blind "want," whatever. Same >> > with >> > identifiable currency. Now, however, I hear a bunch of the same people >> > saying, in effect, "I want to carry a symbol of blindness! I want to >> > proclaim my blindness to everyone so that they can alter their >> > behaviors >> > appropriately in recognition of the fact that I'm blind!" I should >> > think >> > the true spirit of the NFB might be to use a black cane and give no >> > indication whatsoever of blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. >> > I >> > just don't understand this. >> > >> > Mark BurningHawk >> > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >> > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >> > Namaste! >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >> > com >> > >> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> > signature >> > database 4983 (20100329) __________ >> > >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> > http://www.eset.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> > signature >> > database 4983 (20100329) __________ >> > >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> > http://www.eset.com >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2776 - Release Date: 03/28/10 >> 18:32:00 >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:36:30 -0500 >> From: "WB" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Canes and Blindness >> Message-ID: <034501cad059$730318d0$59094a70$@com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> >From my reading of Mark's statement....and he can defend his own....but >> >I >> didn't see where he said not to use a cane. >> >> One problem in this e-mail trail and others is that many times, myself >> included, read what we want to out of a person's statement rather than >> what >> they really said. I guess, as in court, yowe cannot come to an amicable >> resolution if the facts are not taken into consideration. >> >> I'm sure there will be a statement regarding this one that may take a >> word >> or two out of context. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of David Andrews >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 2:38 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: [blindlaw] Canes and Blindness >> >> Mark: >> >> I suppose it is a goal to "blend in and not stand out" as you say, >> but not just in a physical sense. I want to be a part of society, an >> equal, getting the bad and the good do along with my sighted >> counterparts. With the tools available to me today, cane, dog etc., >> I will always stand out some. So instead of trying to hide that I >> need to be proud of my blindness and promote a positive attitude >> towards those tools and blind people, so the stigma goes away. There >> is a stigma because we are not equals -- our unemployment rate etc. >> prove that. When we change that it won't matter that we carry a >> cane, use a dog etc. We won't change attitudes by not using canes >> and the like though. >> >> Dave >> >> At 08:00 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: >> >I'm not quibbling with the white cane as a mobility tool. However, >> >recently a thread started here about carrying a white cane merely to >> >identify oneself as blind, so as not to cause confusion when being >> >unable to read name tags, etc., at a symposium or whatever. It was >> >put forth that canes should be carried, in addition to any value they >> >may have as a mobility aid, merely to identify a blind person as >> >blind, and to allow the sighted to give them a "handicap," in not >> >being able to read name tags. For this purpose, a sign declaring "I >> >am blind, please act accordingly," would serve just as well, it seems >> >to me, and the white cane then becomes a stigma-maker, not a tool. >> >For purposes of this discussion, the "white," color of the cane >> >becomes the "distress cry of the blind," or something; the identifying >> >mark by which blind people are known and warn their surroundings that >> >they are in fact in need of a handicap. This is one reason why I want >> >to use a cane that's other than white with a red tip. It is very true >> >that, even with my guide dog, when I wear sunglasses, I am often >> >mistaken for a dog-walker, not a guide dog user. It's like that old >> >left-handed compliment, "No one would know you're blind, you do that >> >so well." That infuriates me when it's said to me. It seems that >> >some here are trying to avoid just this situation--being mistaken for >> >a sighted person--when I should think that was the ultimate goal of >> >any blind person--to blend in and not stand out. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:37:55 -0500 >> From: " Rob Tabor" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=response >> >> Good evening. >> >> Although this thread of conversation began as something quite amuzing and >> at >> least arguably relevant to questions pertaining to alternately colored or >> multi-colored travel canes and their compliance with white cane laws it >> has >> evolved into an equally interesting but kokophanous diatribe over how we >> perceive one another and how the world perceives as people with blindness >> or >> otherwise low vision. In other words, the conversation is drifting far >> from >> being relevant to a blind lawyers' discussion list for which it is >> intended. >> I recognize, however, that Dave Anddrews has final judgment on this as >> list >> owner/moderator. Perhaps someone should start a philosophy of blindness >> discussion list where views like these can be aired and responded to. >> Best regards, >> Rob Tabor Vice president Douglas county (KS) Chapter NFB >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark BurningHawk" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 5:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> >> > Oh cut that out. I was born blind, too, and I don't have insecurities >> > about injuring someone; I've never been responsible for anyone else's >> > injury that I didn't mean to, so stop making it personal when I'm >> > trying >> > to keep it general. Blindness is *NOT* a liability any more than >> > clumsiness or large feet. Having bright red hair can e a distraction >> > which can cause injury to someone who sees it. I protest loudly the >> > idea >> > that blind people, especially high-end, intelligent, lawyer-type blind >> > people accept the fact that they may injure someone more readily than >> > a >> > sighted person with two left feet might. When I see professionals who >> > are blind accepting this shame instead of actively working to correct >> > it, >> > I am sad because this attitude will trickle down to disrupt my life >> > when >> > I do something unconventional. So knock off that psychology crap, >> > please; I use a guide dog, not a cane anyway. >> > >> > Mark BurningHawk >> > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >> > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >> > Namaste! >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rob.tabor%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:41:23 -0500 >> From: "WB" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> Message-ID: <034601cad05a$20734620$6159d260$@com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> I'm a member of NFB and have heard the things that Mark was speaking of. >> Dave, you may be taking your view which you stated. The fact is that >> there >> are many members who do what Mark spoke of. And the perception of many >> in >> the blind community is as such. >> >> I've heard an NFB member rail against the I-Phone because they wanted to >> dissuade a person from purchasing it so they could waste money on the >> KNFB >> reader which is way to expensive. I've heard many a philosophy on the >> use >> of straight canes and why we shouldn't use a folding cane. >> >> The list goes on and on. I think a point was being made that those who >> wish >> to disagree with mark are blatantly overlooking. >> >> Again, he can defend his own statements but I've been reading the e-mails >> relating to this topic. Once again, I and others have gotten on their >> soapbox on a topic that started lightly. Well, here's to reading some >> more. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of David Andrews >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 2:27 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> >> Mark: >> >> Two things: first, discussion of NFB philosophy is not really on >> topic for this list, nonetheless I will try and briefly answer your >> question. I think the problem comes in that you misunderstand why we >> aren't in favor of some audio pedestrian signals, some forms of >> currency identification etc. First, some of your language, that we >> "rail against" does not lend itself to reasoned discussion. Your >> examples to me imply that you think we are against any recognizable >> identification of blindness. This isn't the reason. I think as a >> group we are proud of ourselves as blind persons and what we have >> accomplished. >> >> On the other hand we feel that you should only ask for and use those >> accommodations that are necessary, and when there are other ways of >> accomplishing something, you should use those ways. >> >> You are drawing a black and white picture of the world, and NFB's >> reaction to it, and the true picture is much more nuanced. >> >> Dave >> >> At 04:51 PM 3/28/2010, you wrote: >> >I'm following this thread, and I know a large percentage of the folks >> >here are NFB members; I personally a not, nor any organization, for >> >that matter. I find a bit of hypocrisy in this discussion: First the >> >NFB rails against things like audible cross walk signals and so on, >> >claiming that the blind don't need them, that it's not what the blind >> >"want," whatever. Same with identifiable currency. Now, however, I >> >hear a bunch of the same people saying, in effect, "I want to carry a >> >symbol of blindness! I want to proclaim my blindness to everyone so >> >that they can alter their behaviors appropriately in recognition of >> >the fact that I'm blind!" I should think the true spirit of the NFB >> >might be to use a black cane and give no indication whatsoever of >> >blindness, except on a purely voluntary basis. I just don't >> >understand this. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 10 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:41:33 -0500 >> From: David Andrews >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >> >> There is -- try nfb-talk. To subscribe either go to: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org >> >> or send e-mail to nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org and put the word >> subscribe in the subject line by itself. >> >> Dave >> >> At 05:37 PM 3/30/2010, you wrote: >> >Good evening. >> > >> >Although this thread of conversation began as something quite >> >amuzing and at least arguably relevant to questions pertaining to >> >alternately colored or multi-colored travel canes and their >> >compliance with white cane laws it has evolved into an equally >> >interesting but kokophanous diatribe over how we perceive one >> >another and how the world perceives as people with blindness or >> >otherwise low vision. In other words, the conversation is drifting >> >far from being relevant to a blind lawyers' discussion list for >> >which it is intended. I recognize, however, that Dave Anddrews has >> >final judgment on this as list owner/moderator. Perhaps someone >> >should start a philosophy of blindness discussion list where views >> >like these can be aired and responded to. >> >Best regards, >> >Rob Tabor Vice president Douglas county (KS) Chapter NFB >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 11 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:42:43 -0700 >> From: "James Weisberg" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> Message-ID: <68E61DE2FA7F410EA387623187EB1870 at Blind> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Hello: >> >> I have had the nokia, forgot the model, running talks and then moved to >> the >> Motorola Q9 running mobilespeaks. At first I found Talks superior but it >> was obviously due to my familiarity with it and the Nokia I had been >> using. >> I soon discovered the "MotoQ" running the mobilespeaks software was much >> slicker. I had access to basically all blackberry type options although >> I >> did not pay for the internet and cannot say how that worked. Currently I >> am >> using an iPhone with "voiceover" which is inadequate if you are totally >> blind but usable with limited vision and worth the hassle. >> >> Jimi >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Steve Jacobson >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:41 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> >> Cathryn, >> >> Like Joe, I am also using an accessible cellphone through Sprint. Maybe >> I >> can shed a little light on a couple of things. >> >> First, the KNFB Reader phone is as expensive as it is mostly because of >> the >> KNFB reader software rather than the phone. However the total price has >> come down >> to around $1,500. Of this, $995 is for the software that converts print >> into spoken text. That is about the same price as the K-1000 software >> that >> performs that >> function on a personal computer. Speaking very generally, the phone >> itself >> is roughly $300 and the software or "screen reader" that makes the phone >> functions talk >> is around another $200. The price estimated here for the phone is based >> upon buying a phone from a dealer without going through a phone company. >> Generally if >> you buy a phone through a service provider and sign a two year contract >> or >> renew one for two years, the phone company in effect subsidizes the cost >> of >> a new >> phone by $150 or $200 or so. Therefore, if you sign a new contract or >> extend an existing one, it is very possible that you can get a phone that >> can be made >> accessible for $100 or so, but you still have to buy a "screen reader" >> for >> the phone which will probably cost you another $200. >> >> However, as Joe mentioned, there are some phones out there which have >> some >> speech built in. These phones can cost you less than $100 with a new >> contract or >> an extension, and no screen reader is required. However, phones with >> built-in speech generally cannot handle e-mail or web browsing, but they >> can >> usually handle >> text messaging now and allow access to your contacts. I believe that >> Sprint >> still has the LG Rumor 2 and the LG Lotus and there could be others by >> now >> that fit this >> category. >> >> You cannot add a screen reader to just any phone. Like computers, the >> more >> advanced phones have "operating systems," and some of these do allow a >> screen >> reader to be added. The most common operating system on phones that can >> be >> used with Sprint and Verizon is called Windows Mobile. There is a screen >> reader >> called Mobile Speak that works with many of these phones. Such phones >> are >> sometimes called SmartPhones or Pocket PC's. Common brands include >> Samsung >> and Joe mentioned and also HTC but there are others. Many of the Palm >> phones cannot be used with a screen reader. >> >> Many of the phones that work on T-Mobil and AT&T use the Simbian >> operating >> system. There is another screen reader that is used on these phones >> called >> TALKS. >> However, Mobile Speak also works on some of these phones, and TALKS works >> on >> certain Verizon phones now. Phones made by Nokia are most common in this >> category, but not all Nokia phones are capablt of supporting a screen >> reader. >> >> I just went through the process of buying an HTC Snap phone which I use >> on >> Sprint with Mobile Speak, and I found the whole business to be confusing >> at >> best. >> Therefore, I hope the above helps a little, but keep in mind that >> something >> I have written could easily have become out of date since I started this >> note. >> Still, if you can keep in mind that some phones are simply not >> accessible, >> some have some built-in accessibility for basics, and some that use >> Windows >> Mobile or >> Simbian operating systems can be made accessible with the addition of a >> screen reader, you will be off to a good start. Then also remember that >> you >> can usually get >> a big discount buying a phone from a service provider with a new contract >> or >> contract extension. Good luck. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson , >> >> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:03:52 -0400, Cathryn Bonnette wrote: >> >> >Thanks much- Do you know if it is possible to purchase the voice >> >software >> to >> >install on a cell? >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >On >> >Behalf Of Joe Orozco >> >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:47 AM >> >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> >> >I have a Samsung Intrepid through Sprint. I switched over from Verizon, >> >better deal on unlimited data plan. The only advantage through Verizon, >> >I >> >think, is that you can purchase their HTC Ozone with Mobile Speak >> installed. >> >Someone can correct me on that, and Verizon also carries the LG line >> >that >> >provides moderate accessibility. I also live in DC and both carriers >> >are >> >the best ones here in terms of reception. >> >> >Joe Orozco >> >> >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> >sleeves, >> >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >> >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:03 AM >> >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> >Subject: [blindlaw] A Change of Topic-Cell Phone Access >> >> >Greetings to All: >> >> > >> >> >Wondering if anyone can offer guidance on good deals, best >> >companies, etc. >> >for cell phones or cell/internet packages. I confess I don't >> >have $2,000.00 >> >to spend on the KNFB version, though it sounds great. I have heard the >> >frustration from Verizon employees in their center for customers with >> >disabilities that no one listens to their attempts to advocate. >> > I observed >> >yesterday that several cell phones using "Talks" voice software are no >> >longer available. >> >> > >> >> >I'm hoping to shortcut similar research on several companies by seeking >> >wisdom from the group. >> >> > >> >> >Thanks in advance for any tips you may have to offer, and thanks for >> >listening- >> >> > >> >> >Cathryn >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >blindlaw mailing list >> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >info for blindlaw: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >> >co%40gmail.com >> > >> >> >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> >virus signature database 4984 (20100330) __________ >> >> >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >http://www.eset.com >> > >> > >> >> >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> >database 4985 (20100330) __________ >> >> >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >http://www.eset.com >> > >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >blindlaw mailing list >> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >blindlaw: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally% >> 4 >> >0verizon.net >> >No virus found in this incoming message. >> >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> >Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2777 - Release Date: 03/30/10 >> >06:32:00 >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >blindlaw mailing list >> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40 >> visi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4986 (20100330) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4986 (20100330) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 12 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:20:17 -0400 >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Dear all, >> >> On a more serious topic, what is the best course of action to take in a >> situation where police officers do not know of service animal >> accessibility >> laws, or will not enforce these laws even if they are aware of them? A >> couple of years ago I wound up suing a Chinatown curbside carrier for not >> allowing my Seeing Eye dog on one of their buses. Since that incident I >> have monitored other discrimination cases where the police officers on >> the >> scene either partially or mostly took the side of the public business, >> claiming the business could refuse whoever they want or suggesting >> alternative services to avoid future discrimination. In the moment it >> seems >> as though there is very little one can do to trump the authority of the >> local police department, which seems unfair, but there must surely be >> something one can do to educate what seems to be a widespread ignorance >> among the law enforcement community on the issue. Are there not standard >> training procedures for most law enforcement departments? Are there >> perhaps >> legal maneuvers one could use to catch the attention of departments that >> do >> not help protect the rights of service animal handlers? With all >> respect, >> please do not suggest my going through NAGDU. Otherwise, thank you in >> advance for any light you can shed. >> >> Regards, >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4986 (20100330) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 13 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:45:45 -0700 >> From: Mark BurningHawk >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pimp My Cane >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes >> >> I made a promise to take this off list, so that's why I'm not >> defending my statements. :) I'd just be repeating myself at this >> point; I have tried to make my words stand on their own, to not make >> it personal and to keep my rhetoric to a minimum. My apologies if I >> failed, but WB's right; things like the railing against the Iphone, >> the amazingly harsh status *AGAINST* guide dogs, etc., have really >> turned me off to NFB, as well as the whole "you will be assimilated," >> thing. This is why I don't join *ANY* organization; I just don't fit >> in. :) >> >> Mark BurningHawk >> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >> Namaste! >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 14 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:17:38 -0700 >> From: >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Hi Joe, >> Much depends on the jurisdiction that you are in. One option is to >> request a >> police supervisor such as a sergeant or contact a shift or watch >> commander >> to address the issue. Here in California I am familiar with a situation >> where a guide dog user was not allowed in a store with his dog and the >> police warned the business owner that the dog user could sue him and file >> a >> civil rights complaint. The important thing is to know the laws in each >> jurisdiction as well as the relevant sections of the ADA regarding public >> businesses and accommodations. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 6:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement >> >> >> > Dear all, >> > >> > On a more serious topic, what is the best course of action to take in a >> > situation where police officers do not know of service animal >> > accessibility >> > laws, or will not enforce these laws even if they are aware of them? A >> > couple of years ago I wound up suing a Chinatown curbside carrier for >> > not >> > allowing my Seeing Eye dog on one of their buses. Since that incident >> > I >> > have monitored other discrimination cases where the police officers on >> > the >> > scene either partially or mostly took the side of the public business, >> > claiming the business could refuse whoever they want or suggesting >> > alternative services to avoid future discrimination. In the moment it >> > seems >> > as though there is very little one can do to trump the authority of the >> > local police department, which seems unfair, but there must surely be >> > something one can do to educate what seems to be a widespread ignorance >> > among the law enforcement community on the issue. Are there not >> > standard >> > training procedures for most law enforcement departments? Are there >> > perhaps >> > legal maneuvers one could use to catch the attention of departments >> > that >> > do >> > not help protect the rights of service animal handlers? With all >> > respect, >> > please do not suggest my going through NAGDU. Otherwise, thank you in >> > advance for any light you can shed. >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Joe Orozco >> > >> > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> > sleeves, >> > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> > >> > >> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> > signature >> > database 4986 (20100330) __________ >> > >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> > http://www.eset.com >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 15 >> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:00:41 -0500 >> From: " Rob Tabor" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement >> Message-ID: <3239D11BD0AD48EF8EC29BA6A3206D85 at Rob> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Hi, Joe and all. >> >> When I acquired my dog guide from The Seeing Eye? in 1980 all of us in >> the >> dog navigation training class were provided a copy of the dog guide use >> protection clause in the White Cane Act applicable to our respective home >> states. I suspect The Seeing Eye? and other dog guide training schools >> provide the same service to their graduates. That being the case, the >> obvious first step is to carry the document and show it to the officer >> who >> is questioning your right to bring the service animal. If the officer is >> not >> persuaded that s/he has seen the law of the land, the next step is to >> file a >> formal complaint with the chief of police or to follow whatever process >> or >> apparatus is available in your municipal government to launch a public >> grievance against the actions of the officer. There is always the option >> of >> taking one's complaint to the "court of public opinion" in the form of >> letters to the newspaper editor, contacting a newspaper or TV reporter >> about >> doing a feature on the issue, etc. If these kinder and gentler measures >> fail >> to yield the desired results, filing a law suit against the police >> department under Title 2 of ADA or the applicable state >> anti-discrimination >> law may prove to be necessary. One thinng is for sure. Either you will >> acquire a reputation in town as a troublemaker or people will learn you >> are >> not a person to be trifled with. Take your pick. In any event, good luck >> in >> these endeavors. >> >> best regards >> Rob Tabor, J.D, Vice president, Douglas County Chapter, NFB >> of Kansas >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Educating Law Enforcement >> >> >> > Dear all, >> > >> > On a more serious topic, what is the best course of action to take in a >> > situation where police officers do not know of service animal >> > accessibility >> > laws, or will not enforce these laws even if they are aware of them? A >> > couple of years ago I wound up suing a Chinatown curbside carrier for >> > not >> > allowing my Seeing Eye dog on one of their buses. Since that incident >> > I >> > have monitored other discrimination cases where the police officers on >> > the >> > scene either partially or mostly took the side of the public business, >> > claiming the business could refuse whoever they want or suggesting >> > alternative services to avoid future discrimination. In the moment it >> > seems >> > as though there is very little one can do to trump the authority of the >> > local police department, which seems unfair, but there must surely be >> > something one can do to educate what seems to be a widespread ignorance >> > among the law enforcement community on the issue. Are there not >> > standard >> > training procedures for most law enforcement departments? Are there >> > perhaps >> > legal maneuvers one could use to catch the attention of departments >> > that >> > do >> > not help protect the rights of service animal handlers? With all >> > respect, >> > please do not suggest my going through NAGDU. Otherwise, thank you in >> > advance for any light you can shed. >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Joe Orozco >> > >> > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> > sleeves, >> > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> > >> > >> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> > signature >> > database 4986 (20100330) __________ >> > >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> > http://www.eset.com >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rob.tabor%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 16 >> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:42:15 -0700 >> From: "Susan Kelly" >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [blindlaw] Arizona Attorney magazine >> Message-ID: >> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D6CE1 at EVS02.central.pima.gov> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> >> >> Does anyone else on the list practice in Arizona? >> >> I emailed the State Bar last week to find out if there was either a >> text-only on-line version of the Arizona Attorney magazine, or an audio >> version, as it has become increasingly difficult to read the publication >> even with my CCTV and/or screen magnification software. The format of >> the on-line version does not work at all with screen narration, as it >> keeps getting "off track" into the other fluff on the sides of the >> articles and notices. Of course, the Bar has not bothered to even >> acknowledge my email as of yet. So - would anyone on this list happen >> to know the answer? I ask because the magazine is often the first, or >> at least the most in-depth, notification of rule changes, convention >> information, etc. for Arizona.... >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: not available >> Type: image/jpeg >> Size: 5675 bytes >> Desc: image001.jpg >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> >> End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 70, Issue 24 >> **************************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >