From rumpole at roadrunner.com Wed Jun 1 14:40:09 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 10:40:09 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Justice ADA settlement announcement Message-ID: <51883DE9FDDD4A2BA99D2E5D930B9E1D@none8a46117901> The Justice Department announced today a comprehensive settlement agreement under the Americans with Disabilities Act with Wells Fargo & Company to ensure equal access for individuals with disabilities to Wells Fargo's services nationwide, including its nearly 10,000 retail banking, brokerage and mortgage stores, over 12,000 ATMs, and its telephone and website services. For more information, go to: http://www.justice..gov/opa/pr/2011/May/11-crt-703.html The Civil Rights Division is on Twitter. Follow us at www.twitter.com/civilrights http://www.twitter.com/civilrights Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 2 14:51:20 2011 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 07:51:20 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] lack of accessible student loan info Message-ID: <913C3CC1-3E9C-4350-9D85-F64B95839514@sbcglobal.net> Hello: For as long as I have had a government student loan, I have faced the problem of inaccessibility when requesting deferment documents and other paperwork. They insist on sending me paperwork, and their on-line documents are only available in PDF, as is the federal government's way. Which brings me to my question: Based on the recent decision forcing the SSA to provide its documents in accessible format, can I use that to force the government student loan people to make my paperwork accessible to me? The fact is, I live alone and in a rural area, and there aren't any sighted people nearby that I feel comfortable with, that I'd want going through my mail, much less knowing my social security number or financial information, yet due to the inaccessible format of the documents I need to fill out to keep my account in good standing, I am forced to allow others privy to this information. Often my loan has been delinquent because of delays which came about due to my inability to find someone who could help me fill these documents out. My credit score and other such record have been hurt over the long term by this situation. Any ideas whether this decision is applicable across these lines? Thanks. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Thu Jun 2 15:03:28 2011 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 08:03:28 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] lack of accessible student loan info In-Reply-To: <913C3CC1-3E9C-4350-9D85-F64B95839514@sbcglobal.net> References: <913C3CC1-3E9C-4350-9D85-F64B95839514@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3ED1D@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Mine are (finally) paid off, but I ran into the same problem when I began losing my vision a couple of years ago. The folks on the phone were not exactly helpful when I called to explain the problem, either, which for me was maintaining access to the on-line payment and document delivery system as more and more layers of security were layered into the process. Hopefully someone can force them to come into compliance with accessibility.... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 7:51 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] lack of accessible student loan info Hello: For as long as I have had a government student loan, I have faced the problem of inaccessibility when requesting deferment documents and other paperwork. They insist on sending me paperwork, and their on-line documents are only available in PDF, as is the federal government's way. Which brings me to my question: Based on the recent decision forcing the SSA to provide its documents in accessible format, can I use that to force the government student loan people to make my paperwork accessible to me? The fact is, I live alone and in a rural area, and there aren't any sighted people nearby that I feel comfortable with, that I'd want going through my mail, much less knowing my social security number or financial information, yet due to the inaccessible format of the documents I need to fill out to keep my account in good standing, I am forced to allow others privy to this information. Often my loan has been delinquent because of delays which came about due to my inability to find someone who could help me fill these documents out. My credit score and other such record have been hurt over the long term by this situation. Any ideas whether this decision is applicable across these lines? Thanks. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 2 15:31:20 2011 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 08:31:20 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] lack of accessible student loan info In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3ED1D@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <913C3CC1-3E9C-4350-9D85-F64B95839514@sbcglobal.net> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3ED1D@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <7B6877AB-C131-4A41-8745-AD7DC92BC339@sbcglobal.net> Gee. One wonders if you called the same (Stafford loans, I believe). Would anyone know how I'd go about wagging the dog on this one? Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Thu Jun 2 15:42:50 2011 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 08:42:50 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] lack of accessible student loan info In-Reply-To: <7B6877AB-C131-4A41-8745-AD7DC92BC339@sbcglobal.net> References: <913C3CC1-3E9C-4350-9D85-F64B95839514@sbcglobal.net> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3ED1D@EVS02.central.pima.gov> <7B6877AB-C131-4A41-8745-AD7DC92BC339@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3ED21@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Mine were consolidated with Sallie Mae - but I think the same parent company has pretty much all of the stuff for the federal student loan programs. Evil, to say the least. Wishing you luck in getting them to behave like actual humans! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 8:31 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] lack of accessible student loan info Gee. One wonders if you called the same (Stafford loans, I believe). Would anyone know how I'd go about wagging the dog on this one? Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Jun 3 19:05:13 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 14:05:13 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: SEEKING EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY TO FILL OPENING AT NON-PROFIT LEGAL CENTER IN BERKELEY, CA Message-ID: From: CMPDL's Disability Discussion Docket (3D) [mailto:CMPDL-3D at MAIL.AMERICANBAR.ORG] On Behalf Of Rebecca Williford Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 2:21 PM To: CMPDL-3D at MAIL.AMERICANBAR.ORG Subject: SEEKING EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY TO FILL OPENING AT NON-PROFIT LEGAL CENTER IN BERKELEY, CA Disability Rights Advocates (DRA), a national non-profit disability rights legal center specializing in precedent-setting and socially significant civil litigation, has a staff position available for a motivated attorney with at least 3 years of litigation experience, to work on a variety of high impact cases. DRA is a great place to work in a congenial and supportive environment. We believe that teamwork, life quality, open intellectual discourse, and good human relationships foster the highest level of professionalism and job satisfaction. DRA is one of the preeminent disability rights legal centers in the nation. In the past 14 years, this 12-lawyer office has successfully litigated more class-action disability rights cases resulting in systemic change than any other legal center in America. DRA handles a wide range of issues such as access to transportation, education, employment, recreation, insurance and health care. We represent populations with many different types of disabilities. We take on the giants such as Kaiser Permanente, United Parcel Service, Macy's, Caltrans, the National Council of Bar Examiners, the City and County of Los Angeles, the New York Taxi and Limousine Commission, and Target.com. Our track record of success is unparalleled. We hope you will find DRA an exciting and fulfilling place to work, and a place where your legal skills will help to transform the world. Requirements - Ability to manage significant litigation - Knowledge of substantive and procedural aspects of complex civil litigation - Experience with discovery (documents and depositions), law and motion practice, trial preparation, and settlement - Excellent academic credentials and analytical and writing skills - Strong organizational skills and self-motivation - Creativity and willingness to work as a team member - California Bar admission - Desire to change the world Preference will be give to individuals with a demonstrated commitment to public interest. Experience with disability issues helpful but not essential. DRA is an equal opportunity employer and values diversity. Salary DOE plus excellent benefits. Please send resume, writing sample (no more than 5 pages), transcript, 3 references (with contact information) and cover letter to: Laurie Ferreira Disability Rights Advocates 2001 Center Street, Fourth Floor Berkeley, CA 94704-1204 Tel: (510) 665-8644 Fax: (510) 665-8511 jobs at dralegal.org ============== Going to respond to this message? Be sure to hit "Reply All" when doing so. Disability Discussion Docket (3D) ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law http://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_services/mental_physical_disability.html [cid:~WRD308.jpg] ------------------ Material distributed over 3D is for educational and informational purposes only. The contents of any e-mail, including any statements that may be construed as legal advice or referral, are solely the responsibility of the e-mail's author. 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If you have any issues you may either contact the list owner via email: CMPDL-3D-request at mail.americanbar.org, or the ABA Service Center at phone: 1-800-285-2221 or email: service at americanbar.org. ______________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ~WRD308.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: ~WRD308.jpg URL: From rumpole at roadrunner.com Sat Jun 4 12:36:30 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 08:36:30 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Attorney listings - Texas and Georgia Message-ID: <12BE69B1077240C4943ADD38BD5CAFF2@none8a46117901> * UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS FEDERAL CORRECTIONAL COMPLEX CONSOLIDATED LEGAL CENTER BEAUMONT, TEXAS ATTORNEY-ADVISOR GS-905-12/13 To apply, please submit a resume, cover letter and a writing sample (a brief or comparable analytic legal exposition that is your work product) by June 15, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/bop-atty-adv-tx.htm ??? * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA 11-GAN-AUSA-03 The announcement is open until filled. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/11-gan-ausa-03.htm Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From rumpole at roadrunner.com Mon Jun 6 13:38:09 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 09:38:09 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] FEMA - DHS dual job posting - WDC Message-ID: <0CB8A3DEF1B94B88813ED11EC705B823@none8a46117901> The actual job posting is found at: http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=99910033 vacancies. Job Announcement Job Title: Disability Integration Specialist GS-0301-12 Department: Department Of Homeland Security Agency: Federal Emergency Management Agency Job Announcement Number: MG-2011-81470-VMJ-479330COR SALARY RANGE: $74,872.00 - $97,333.00 /year OPEN PERIOD: Thursday, June 02, 2011 to Thursday, June 16, 2011 SERIES & GRADE: GS-0301-12 POSITION INFORMATION: Full Time Temporary NTE 2 years PROMOTION POTENTIAL: 12 DUTY LOCATIONS: 2 vacancies - Washington DC Metro Area, DC WHO MAY BE CONSIDERED: United States Citizens JOB SUMMARY: When disaster strikes, America looks to FEMA. Now FEMA looks to you. Join our team and use your talent to support Americans in their times of greatest need. The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) prepares the nation for all hazards and manages Federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident. We foster innovation, reward performance and creativity, and provide challenges on a routine basis with a well-skilled, knowledgeable, high performance workforce. You will serve in the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), in the Office of Disability Integration and Coordination (ODIC), in Washington, DC.. In this position, you will be responsible for ensuring effective disaster response and recovery interface and coordination of Offfice of Disability Integration and Coordination programs and initiatives with Regional Disability Integration Specialists and regional management throughout FEMA, and with the National Council on Disability. PROMOTION POTENTIAL: Future promotions will be dependent on your ability to perform the duties at a higher level, the continuing need for an employee assigned to the higher level, and administrative approval. This position is being announced under FEMA's CORE Program (Cadre of on-call Response/Recovery employees). These positions are authorized under P.L. 93-288 to perform temporary disaster work and are funded from the Disaster Relief Fund. Appointments are excepted service, temporary appointments. This is a 2 year temporary appointment in the Excepted Service. EMERGENCY ASSIGNMENT: FEMA employees are subject to 24 hour on-call in the event of any emergency. This service may require irregular work hours, work at locations other than the official duty station, and may include duties other than those specified in the employee's official position description. Travel requirements in support of emergency operations may be extensive in nature (weeks to months), with little advance notice, and may require employees to relocate to emergency sites that require functioning under intense physical and mental stress. Relocation expenses are not authorized for this position. KEY REQUIREMENTS: You must be a U.S. citizen to be considered for this position. This position requires a (Public Trust/High Risk, TS) background check. Occasional travel may be required. You may be required serve a trial period of 1 year. Direct Deposit is mandatory. Males born after 12/31/59 - Selective Service Registration required. Duties Additional Duty Location Info: 2 vacancies - Washington DC Metro Area, DC Specific Duties: Provides advice, guidance and information regarding a variety of emergency management activities as they relate to ODIC disaster response and recovery programs and responsibilities. Develops and implements policies and procedures for providing accommodations in compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 as Amended, the Rehabilitation Act, as Amended and other applicable laws. Participates in developing and implementing Standard Operating Procedures that are inclusive of the needs and requirements of people with physical, sensory, intellectual, cognitive and mental health disabilities and additionally ensure equal access to persons with disabilities. Develops reporting mechanisms and other processes for the regions in support of disaster response and recovery operations in order to ensure the needs of individuals with disabilities are fully addressed in accordance with Section 689 of the Post-Katrina Emergency Management Reform Act of 2006 and Section 513 of the Homeland Security Act. Qualifications and Evaluations QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED: To qualify for this position at the GS-12 level you must possess at least one of the following: One full year of specialized experience equivalent to the GS-11 level in the federal government, other state, local, non-profit organization, or the private sector Specialized experience for this position is described as experience providing guidance and strategies to integrate and coordinate emergency management efforts to meet the needs of all citizens, including children and adults with disabilities and others with access and functional needs. OR Education - no education requirements for the GS-12 grade level Knowledge, Skills, and abilities: 1. Knowledge of regulations and directives, Code of Federal Regulations, relevant United States Code provisions; FEMA policies, procedures, and practices; and policies and procedures governing disabiility inclusion and community integration initiatives to effectively coordinate ODIC programs and initiatives with Regional Disability Integration Specialists and other designated FEMA personnel. 2. Skills in providing, planning, and implementing emergency preparedness technical assistance, outreach, and liaison activities during disaster response and recovery operations with FEMA Regions, among various government agencies, and with outside organizations. 3. Ability to provide technical advice to management and operational personnel regarding issues concerning individuals with disabilities in pre and post disaster environments. 4. Ability to serve as a headquarters liaison with all regions and as a representative of the ODIC Director in a variety of program planning and coordination efforts supporting disaster response and recovery. All qualifications and grade equivalency requirements must be met within 30 calendar days of the closing date of this announcement. SECURITY CLEARANCE REQUIREMENTS: This is a Public Trust position that requires a background investigation. Appointment to the position is subject tot he applicant or appointee successfully completing essential security investigation, the completion of the investigation, and the favorable adjudication of the investigation. Failure to satisfactorily complete any of this process is grounds for immediate termination. Applicants for this position may be required to submit to a urinalysis for illegal drug use prior to appointment. HOW YOU WILL BE EVALUATED: All applicants will be evaluated based on responses to the Job Questionnaire for the announcement. Once the application process is complete, a review of your application will be made to ensure you meet the job requirements. To determine if you are qualified for this job, a review of your resume and supporting documentation will be made and compared against your responses to the occupational questionnaire. To preview the Assessment Questionnaire, click the following link: View Assessment Questions Back to top Benefits and Other Info BENEFITS: Our career opportunities feature the potential for performance-based increases, flexible hours, and the ability to achieve and maintain a balanced lifestyle. Other benefits that may be available include a uniform allowance, health and wellness programs, fitness centers, and telework. For more information on federal benefits, please visit www.usajobs.gov/jobextrainfo.asp#FEHB. OTHER INFORMATION: This announcement may be used to fill one or more vacancies. VETERANS INFORMATION, EEO POLICY, AND REGISTRATION FOR SELECTIVE SERVICE can be obtained utilizing the links at the bottom of this announcement. CITIZENSHIP: Agencies are permitted to hire non-citizens only in very limited circumstances where there are no qualified citizens available for the position. REASONABLE ACCOMMODATIONS: For more information, please see the link at the bottom of this announcement and www.opm.gov/disability/reasonableaccommodation.asp. Back to top How To Apply HOW TO APPLY: To apply for this position, you must provide a complete Application Package, which includes: 1. Your Resume; 2. A complete Occupational Questionnaire; .the remainder of this posting is not reproduced here. VETERANS INFORMATION, EEO POLICY, AND REGISTRATION FOR SELECTIVE SERVICE can be obtained utilizing the links at the bottom of this announcement. CITIZENSHIP: Agencies are permitted to hire non-citizens only in very limited circumstances where there are no qualified citizens available for the position. REASONABLE ACCOMMODATIONS: For more information, please see the link at the bottom of this announcement and www.opm.gov/disability/reasonableaccommodation.asp. Back to top How To Apply HOW TO APPLY: To apply for this position, you must provide a complete Application Package, which includes: 1. Your Resume; 2. A complete Occupational Questionnaire; .the remainder of this posting is not reproduced here. Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Jun 6 23:33:17 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 18:33:17 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ABA Paul G. Hearne Award for Disability Rights Goal III 2011 Recipient, ABA Commission on Mental and Disability Law Message-ID: Link: http://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_services/mental_physical_disability/initiatives_awards/the_paul_g_hearne_award_for_disability_rights.html Text: ABA Paul G. Hearne Award for Disability Rights Initiatives & Awards Disability Diversity in the Legal Profession Marc Maurer and Daniel Goldstein have been selected to receive the 2011 Paul G. Hearne Award for Disability Rights. Maurer, the president of the National Federation of the Blind (NFB), and Goldstein, a partner at Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP, have served and advocated for the disability community for over 25 years. The award, sponsored by Starbucks Coffee Company, will be presented on August 8, 2011 at the ABA-CMPDL Annual Meeting Reception for Lawyers with Disabilities in Toronto, Canada. As president of the NFB since 1986, Maurer has overseen the expansion of the National Center for the Blind to include the Jernigan Institute, where researchers build products "by the blind for the blind." He previously served as president of the National Association of Blind Lawyers, the NFB of Maryland, and the World Blind Union North America/Caribbean Region. Goldstein is one of the country's top disability-rights litigators, having most recently represented Stephanie Enyart, a low-vision law school graduate, in her suit against the National Conference of Bar Examiners for failing to provide her proper accommodations to take the California Bar Exam. In addition to their individual accomplishments, Maurer and Goldstein have collaborated to make technology more accessible to blind and low-vision individuals. By initiating a national legal campaign to encourage technology manufacturers to design accessible products and by bringing lawsuits against those who refused to do so, Maurer and Goldstein have made ATM machines, cell phones, iPods and e-books more accessible. Their efforts have resulted in settlement agreements and collaborative partnerships with ATM-manufacturer Cardtronics, Target.com, Apple Computers and its iTunes program, America Online and voting machine manufacturers. Both also played roles in creating the Disability Rights Bar Association, the first ever plaintiff-side organization comprised of attorneys representing individuals with disabilities. From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 00:12:05 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 20:12:05 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Question Message-ID: <25D6655CDAB149BFBC665F126BC71DB4@hometwxakonvzn> How do you as blind lawyers write briefs using jaws? RJ From william.burley3 at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 00:33:17 2011 From: william.burley3 at gmail.com (William Burley, III) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 19:33:17 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Who is On Social media? Message-ID: <4deec34e.aabfec0a.145f.347b@mx.google.com> Greetings all. I would like to follow any of you who are on the various social media sites. Would you mind sharing what sites you and/or your company may be listed? Mine are as follows: LinkedIn E-mail address - wburley at burley-wilson.com My company, Burley-Wilson & Associates has a page there too Facebook Burley-Wilson & Associates, L.L.C. - I have a group and fan page listed here. Twitter Username - BurleyWilson or e-mail wburley at burley-wilson.com I have tons more locations but figure these would be the most popular. Thanks! Will William Burley, III (713) 614-3322 William.burley3 at gmail.com Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more details. Need better internet service for cheaper? Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up TODAY! Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 From rthomas at emplmntattorney.com Wed Jun 8 00:42:24 2011 From: rthomas at emplmntattorney.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 17:42:24 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Who is On Social media? In-Reply-To: <4deec34e.aabfec0a.145f.347b@mx.google.com> References: <4deec34e.aabfec0a.145f.347b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7624D2AACFC344728DB7DDCD32AF7BD7@RThomas> You can follow me on twitter; my twitter ID appears below; www.twitter.com/emplmntattorney. Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 www.emplmntattorney.com Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William Burley, III Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 5:33 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] Who is On Social media? Greetings all. I would like to follow any of you who are on the various social media sites. Would you mind sharing what sites you and/or your company may be listed? Mine are as follows: LinkedIn E-mail address - wburley at burley-wilson.com My company, Burley-Wilson & Associates has a page there too Facebook Burley-Wilson & Associates, L.L.C. - I have a group and fan page listed here. Twitter Username - BurleyWilson or e-mail wburley at burley-wilson.com I have tons more locations but figure these would be the most popular. Thanks! Will William Burley, III (713) 614-3322 William.burley3 at gmail.com Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more details. Need better internet service for cheaper? Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up TODAY! Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From dravant at ameritech.net Wed Jun 8 01:46:06 2011 From: dravant at ameritech.net (Denise Avant) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 20:46:06 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Question In-Reply-To: <25D6655CDAB149BFBC665F126BC71DB4@hometwxakonvzn> References: <25D6655CDAB149BFBC665F126BC71DB4@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <3D7B6AF7-9310-4340-A7FF-2A8B3D072E93@ameritech.net> Hello, can you be more specific. I have written numerous briefs and petitions, where law is being cited. I use jaws, but also have a Braille display connected. On Jun 7, 2011, at 7:12 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > How do you as blind lawyers write briefs using jaws? RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net From rumpole at roadrunner.com Wed Jun 8 12:13:03 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 08:13:03 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Attorney postings Message-ID: <72D95A0E217845A8ADB54118DFD4490F@none8a46117901> * EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY, GS-905-14/15 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING ANTI-CORRUPTION RESIDENT LEGAL ADVISOR FOR BELGRADE, SERBIA 11-CRM-DET-027 Applications for this position should be submitted by June 30, 2011. However, this announcement will remain open until the position is filled. [http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/11-crm-det-027.htm] * EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY SENIOR LEVEL POSITION (SL-0905) SENIOR JUSTICE COUNSEL FOR THE EUROPEAN UNION AND INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL MATTERS UNITED STATES MISSION TO THE EUROPEAN UNION - BRUSSELS OFFICE OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS (OIA) CRIMINAL DIVISION 11-CRM-SL-02 Submissions must be post-marked or received by June 20, 2011. [http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/11-crm-sl-02.htm] Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Wed Jun 8 19:23:10 2011 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 13:23:10 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [DRBA] Applications now being accepted for new Kirkland & Ellis Justice Fellowship at DRLC Message-ID: <91B0123B1F024C0A9197E245FBB51AC5@labarre> fyi Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: Shawna Parks To: DRBA at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 12:46 PM Subject: [DRBA] Applications now being accepted for new Kirkland & Ellis Justice Fellowship at DRLC Hi All, I wanted to let you know that the application period for the Disability Rights Legal Center's newly created Kirkland & Ellis Justice Fellowship is now open. Information about the fellowship and the application can be found at: www.disabilityrightslegalcenter.org/help/KirklandEllisJusticeFellowship.cfm I've also included information about the Fellowship below. Please feel free to forward to anyone you think may be interested. Applications are due July 8th. Fellowship: The Kirkland & Ellis Justice Fellowship is a two year legal fellowship, and will be the lead position in DRLC's newly created Community Advocacy Program. The goal of the Program and the Fellowship is to provide the disability community with critical information and resources that will connect them with relevant service providers, provide limited representation on smaller legal matters, facilitate self-advocacy, and identify systemic issues appropriate for DRLC impact litigation. In order to accomplish this, the Community Advocacy Program under the leadership of the Kirkland & Ellis Justice Fellow will provide a number of services to the community, including: · providing and developing self-help and "know your rights" materials; · providing limited representation on non-litigation matters (known as brief services); · providing meaningful referrals to other organizations, agencies and lawyers, including via DRLC's Lawyer Referral Service; · assisting with pro bono referrals for low income special education cases; and · assisting with investigation of potential litigation cases that are consistent with DRLC's mission and goals. The Fellow will work at the DRLC Los Angeles office with other staff in the program, as well as DRLC's clinical law students and pro bono attorneys on all of the above. The Fellow will also be responsible for significant outreach to legal organizations, service providers, and other attorneys in order to facilitate meaningful referrals for callers and educate the community about DRLC's services. In addition, the Fellow will develop at least one area of expertise, in which he or she cultivates an extensive understanding of the law and issues facing the community. The Fellow will provide trainings and write articles in this area of expertise in order to further inform the community and legal practitioners on that area of the law. The topic will be selected by the Fellow in consultation with DRLC's Executive Director and Legal Director, and can include but is not limited to topics such as housing rights for people with disabilities, rights of people who use service animals, the education rights of youth in the delinquency system, or the intersection of race and disability. Qualifications: Applicants must possess a J.D. and be admitted to the California bar, or have taken or be willing to take the California bar exam. Applicants must possess excellent interpersonal, public speaking and organizational skills, as well as superior academic credentials. Public interest experience and prior work with community organizations is also preferred. Fluency in Spanish or another language relevant to the communities served by DRLC is strongly preferred. Travel within California, and occasional national travel required. Salary and Benefits: The salary for the Kirkland & Ellis Justice Fellowship is $46,000 annually. Benefits include health, dental and vision insurance, life and long-term disability insurance, 401K, AFLAC eligibility, three weeks of vacation, and twelve sick days per year. DRLC also observes all Loyola Law School staff holidays which typically include 14-17 days per year. Parking stipend and state bar dues are also covered for the Fellow. Legal training opportunities are provided. Application Process: To apply for the Kirkland & Ellis Justice Fellowship, applicants must submit two letters of recommendation, a current resume, a legal writing sample of no more than five pages, and the application form. All materials must be submitted via the website no later than 5 p.m. (PST) Friday, July 8, 2011. Finalists will be notified by Friday, July 15, 2011, with interviews of finalist candidates conducted during the weeks of August 8 and August 15. Final selection of the Kirkland & Ellis Justice Fellow will be made no later than August 22, 2011. The selected Fellow will begin work on Monday, October 3, 2011. -- Shawna L. Parks Legal Director Disability Rights Legal Center Adjunct Professor of Law Loyola Law School 919 Albany Street Los Angeles, CA 90015 213 736-1031 -- main number 213 736-1477 -- direct dial 213 736-8310 -- TDD 213 736-1428 -- fax shawna.parks at lls.edu www.disabilityrightslegalcenter.org This electronic mail message contains information that (a) is or may be legally privileged, confidential, proprietary in nature, or otherwise protected by law from disclosure, and (b) is intended only for the use of the Addressee(s) named herein. If you are not the intended recipient, an addressee, or the person responsible for delivering this to an addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, using, copying, or distributing any part of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please contact us immediately and take the steps necessary to delete the message completely from your computer system. Thank you. REMINDER: The DRBA listserv is intended to facilitate open discussion and sharing of ideas. Members need to feel confident that their discussions will not be distributed beyond the group unnecessarily. PLEASE CONSULT WITH THE SENDER(S) BEFORE FORWARDING ANY LISTSERV DISCUSSIONS BEYOND THE DRBA GROUP. From t.l.cantrell at comcast.net Thu Jun 9 23:57:21 2011 From: t.l.cantrell at comcast.net (Tammy Cantrell) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 18:57:21 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind person as a witness question Message-ID: Hello, I need info. I have a blind person that has to be in court. He has to read and verify documents to be submitted into evidence. Are there reasonable accommodations for this situation? The person does not have the portable technology to use. If he borrows something, he isn't going to be proficient with it. His testamony is required because he is the person that filed the complaint. I doubt I could help him since I am on the witness list. If you have any suggestions, please share them with me. This is very important. Thanks! From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Fri Jun 10 13:51:44 2011 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 09:51:44 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind person as a witness question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43C91E738D544E77A001179EE5B477BB@DHRL6TC1> Your friend will need a laptop with his documents scanned and OCR'd into MS word. I recommend a single earphone. The other alternative is that he has the evidence put into Braille, but I don't know how his Braille skills are or whether this would be worth the cost. I have tried many cases using a laptop with window-eyes, and it works well. Obviously, jaws would work too. An apple might even work better, as good as they have gotten lately. I can read Braille, but its just way too slow and cumbersome for the courtroom in my opinion, but others may disagree. Getting used to an earphone in one ear and listening to what is going on around you is certainly a learned skill. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI 48307 Phone: (248) 841-9405 Fax: (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tammy Cantrell Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 7:57 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Blind person as a witness question Hello, I need info. I have a blind person that has to be in court. He has to read and verify documents to be submitted into evidence. Are there reasonable accommodations for this situation? The person does not have the portable technology to use. If he borrows something, he isn't going to be proficient with it. His testamony is required because he is the person that filed the complaint. I doubt I could help him since I am on the witness list. If you have any suggestions, please share them with me. This is very important. Thanks! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com From rumpole at roadrunner.com Fri Jun 10 18:20:01 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 14:20:01 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Attorney Job Posting - FBI Message-ID: <0943AEEF5780400381BFFB55A78F41FE@none8a46117901> * GENERAL ATTORNEY, GS 12/13/14/15 OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY (OPR) FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION WASHINGTON, DC Submissions must be received by June 24, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/opr.htm Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From rumpole at roadrunner.com Mon Jun 13 12:39:23 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 08:39:23 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Attorney Posting- Uncompensated-Louisiana Message-ID: <86133E3344EB45B18EB07CDF1460AD6A@none8a46117901> * SPECIAL ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (SERVES WITHOUT COMPENSATION) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF LOUISIANA 11-WDLA-SAUSA-01 Position is open until filled; however, there will be an initial closing date of August 30, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/11-wdla-sausa-01.htm Date posted: 06-10-2011 Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Tue Jun 14 19:06:44 2011 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:06:44 +0100 Subject: [blindlaw] Hi Can You Help Obtain US Law Books Message-ID: Dear all, As I'm new to this list, I'd like to introduce myself. I'My name is Gerard Sadlier. I'm a BCL (masters candidate) at Oxford University. I am looking for some US law books. I haven't dealt with publishers in the US before so I wondered if people on this list might be able to help me with advice. I am interested in getting the following books: L. Tribe, Constitutional Law Sunsteen et al Administrative Law, Text Cases and Problems, Keetan Insurance Law I'd be really grateful for any help anyone could give me. Kind regards Gerard From rumpole at roadrunner.com Tue Jun 14 22:51:37 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 18:51:37 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Attorney posting - Illinois - uncompensated Message-ID: <2739B0B2D611480C917FC7C193DF73B7@none8a46117901> * SPECIAL ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (SERVES WITHOUT COMPENSATION) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 11-SDIL-01 Position is open until filled http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/11-sdil-01.htm] Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From amatney at hf-law.com Wed Jun 15 13:40:03 2011 From: amatney at hf-law.com (Angela Matney) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 09:40:03 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] DC, NY, Houston Jobs with Seyfarth Shaw LLP Message-ID: <9E93687A9231064FAD3BBDD80BE19E2B062D783A@hfexch1.hirschlerfleischer.com> Hello everyone, A former colleague of mine is engaged in recruiting for several positions with Seyfarth Shaw LLP. Specifically, there are positions in DC, New York, and Houston. The firm pays for all relocation fees. Descriptions of the DC positions are pasted below. If you are interested in any of the positions, please send a resume to kim.goldberg at anchorplanninggroup.com Labor & Employment Associate - Washington, D.C. The Washington DC office of Seyfarth Shaw LLP seeks a senior labor & employment associate. 5 to 10 years substantive litigation experience, working on all aspects of labor and employment litigation, are required. Excellent academic credentials, legal writing and analytical skills are also required. Trial experience a plus. The Washington, D.C. office of Seyfarth Shaw seeks a Government Contracts associate with 3 to 6 years experience. Background in federal litigation and construction is a plus. Excellent academic credentials, analytical skills and verbal and written communication skills required. Labor & Employment ADA Associate - Washington, D.C. The Washington, DC office of Seyfarth Shaw seeks a 2nd or 3rd year associate who is committed to becoming an expert in Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and supporting the firm's growing practice in this area. Duties will also include working on some complex employment-discrimination matters. The candidate must have 2-3 years of litigation experience handling discrimination-related lawsuits, experience handling matters arising under Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, excellent writing skills, and attention to detail. Experience handling government investigations and with cases arising under the Fair Housing Act and the Americans with Disabilities Act is a plus. Angela R. Matney Attorney Hirschler Fleischer 725 Jackson Street, Suite 200 Fredericksburg, Virginia 22401 Tel: (540) 604-2117 Fax: (540) 604-2101 amatney at hf-law.com http://www.hf-law.com Hirschler Fleischer, A Professional Corporation Confidentiality Note: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by returning it to the sender and delete this copy from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to Treasury Department Circular 230, tax advice contained in this communication and any attachments are not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code, nor may any such tax advice be used to promote, market or recommend to any person any transaction or matter that is the subject of this communication and any attachments. From Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov Wed Jun 15 13:48:07 2011 From: Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov (Norman, Gary C. (CMS/OSORA)) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 09:48:07 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] DC, NY, Houston Jobs with Seyfarth Shaw LLP In-Reply-To: <9E93687A9231064FAD3BBDD80BE19E2B062D783A@hfexch1.hirschlerfleischer.com> References: <9E93687A9231064FAD3BBDD80BE19E2B062D783A@hfexch1.hirschlerfleischer.com> Message-ID: <5F7E6855B3549A4096D6B30DCADC2D045B446A24C5@PL-EMSMB4.ees.hhs.gov> Thanks so much for this information. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angela Matney Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 9:40 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] DC, NY, Houston Jobs with Seyfarth Shaw LLP Hello everyone, A former colleague of mine is engaged in recruiting for several positions with Seyfarth Shaw LLP. Specifically, there are positions in DC, New York, and Houston. The firm pays for all relocation fees. Descriptions of the DC positions are pasted below. If you are interested in any of the positions, please send a resume to kim.goldberg at anchorplanninggroup.com Labor & Employment Associate - Washington, D.C. The Washington DC office of Seyfarth Shaw LLP seeks a senior labor & employment associate. 5 to 10 years substantive litigation experience, working on all aspects of labor and employment litigation, are required. Excellent academic credentials, legal writing and analytical skills are also required. Trial experience a plus. The Washington, D.C. office of Seyfarth Shaw seeks a Government Contracts associate with 3 to 6 years experience. Background in federal litigation and construction is a plus. Excellent academic credentials, analytical skills and verbal and written communication skills required. Labor & Employment ADA Associate - Washington, D.C. The Washington, DC office of Seyfarth Shaw seeks a 2nd or 3rd year associate who is committed to becoming an expert in Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and supporting the firm's growing practice in this area. Duties will also include working on some complex employment-discrimination matters. The candidate must have 2-3 years of litigation experience handling discrimination-related lawsuits, experience handling matters arising under Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, excellent writing skills, and attention to detail. Experience handling government investigations and with cases arising under the Fair Housing Act and the Americans with Disabilities Act is a plus. Angela R. Matney Attorney Hirschler Fleischer 725 Jackson Street, Suite 200 Fredericksburg, Virginia 22401 Tel: (540) 604-2117 Fax: (540) 604-2101 amatney at hf-law.com http://www.hf-law.com Hirschler Fleischer, A Professional Corporation Confidentiality Note: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by returning it to the sender and delete this copy from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to Treasury Department Circular 230, tax advice contained in this communication and any attachments are not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code, nor may any such tax advice be used to promote, market or recommend to any person any transaction or matter that is the subject of this communication and any attachments. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gary.norman%40cms.hhs.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Jun 16 17:19:37 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 12:19:37 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates, NPR Morning Edition, June 15, 2011 Message-ID: Link: http://www.npr.org/2011/06/15/137179261/blind-law-student-claims-discrimination-in-testing Text: Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates by Quinn Klinefelter June 15, 2011 Morning Edition Transcript William Archie/Detroit Free Press Attorney Richard Bernstein (left) and Angelo Binno walk through the law office of The Bernstein Law Firm in Farmington Hills, Mich., on May 24. Binno, who is legally blind, is suing the American Bar Association, saying its standards don't accommodate blind law school applicants. June 15, 2011 from WDET A prospective law school student in Michigan is suing the American Bar Association over a case he argues is truly a matter of blind justice. The student says he is being denied access to top-tier law schools because of a test he says no one who's blind could possibly pass. The Law School Admission Test, commonly known as the LSAT, typically features more than a dozen questions where test takers are strongly encouraged to draw out a written diagram to solve the problem. Law school hopeful Angelo Binno was born blind and has overcome many obstacles. But, the 28-year-old says, he could not overcome the low test scores he kept getting when taking the LSAT. And, because of those scores, he was rejected by the three law schools he applied to. "I can't work any harder. I can't study any harder. I can't figure it out, because I can't draw out a diagram like a sighted person can to figure out the answers to these questions," Binno says. Binno is no slouch. He graduated from his high school a year early, had an internship at a law firm after graduating and speaks three languages. He also worked for the Department of Homeland Security before funding cutbacks led to a layoff. But Binno says he was stymied in his attempt to become a lawyer because the American Bar Association requires law schools to use a "valid and reliable" admissions test. Only the LSAT qualifies. "The ABA is supposed to be standing up for justice," he says. "What are they standing for in this situation? I'm not saying that I should receive an automatic entrance into law school. All I'm saying is, give me a level playing field," he says. Binno turned to a sympathetic friend for help. Attorney Richard Bernstein is blind, but he says he received a waiver to enter law school 15 years ago. Shortly thereafter, the ABA revised its standards and, Bernstein claims, threatened to penalize schools that gave too many waivers or did not use the LSAT. Now, Bernstein is suing the ABA, arguing that the LSAT violates the Americans with Disabilities Act. "They are basically forcing U.S. law schools to break federal law by requiring applicants to take an illegal exam. The Americans with Disabilities Act is very clear about this," Bernstein says. "It is illegal to require someone to take an exam which, on its face, is discriminatory." In a written statement, the ABA says it requires universities it accredits to conform to federal law, and that accommodations are made for people with disabilities. Those who have judged law school applications, like Wayne State University Professor David Moss, say some universities do accept students with low LSAT scores. But, Moss says, the company creating the LSAT directs that tests given with special accommodations - like those granted to blind students - should not be given the same weight as regular LSATs. "They've got this flag on it that screams out, 'Beware of this test result, it could be dangerous to your health,'" Moss says. Schools are concerned it might damage their rankings - and prestige - in the annual ratings by U.S. News and World Report. Donald Polden, dean of Santa Clara University Law School, leads an ABA committee reviewing accreditation standards. He says the ABA does grant some schools exemptions from using the LSAT, but top-tier programs don't want to risk their rankings. "The stories are legend about a five- or six-position swing in a school has caused the loss of jobs of administrators or students to flee for other law schools," he says. Polden says many on his committee think the ABA should eliminate the use of the LSAT as a prerequisite to enter any law school. In the meantime, Angelo Binno waits for his day in court - not as the attorney he hopes he'll eventually become, but as a plaintiff arguing that his disability should not prevent him from reaching the top ranks of his chosen profession. From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Fri Jun 17 14:17:31 2011 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 07:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] immigration question Message-ID: <471751.94673.qm@web112419.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi everyone,   I had someone come to me with a question about visas (of which I know nothing about.) The situation is this: A woman is an American citizen and wants to get her husband (an illegal) a visa. She is going to be under the care of a medical professional soon. She was told by an immigration attorney that her husband would have to return to his homeland for eight months to a year and would be able to come back due to the attorney obtaining a visa waiver because he (husband) is the only one who can help take care of the kids since she (wife) will be under medical care.   Anyway, I guess I was the "second opinion" so to speak. The attorney who told her this used to work for the feds so I don't know why I'm being asked. (I would think the attorney would know if anyone would.) Any assistance that any of you can give me would be very much appreciated.   Thanks.   Mike  From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Fri Jun 17 14:50:24 2011 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 07:50:24 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] immigration question In-Reply-To: <471751.94673.qm@web112419.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <471751.94673.qm@web112419.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EDBB@EVS02.central.pima.gov> I haven't done active immigration representation since I started at the public defenders' office, but from what I need to know to stay current for that position indicates that the information is correct. Humanitarian waivers are generally available for medical and similar purposes. My only concern might be the fact that if they have kids together, the feds will automatically know (or at least suspect) that he previously entered without documentation. I don't know if there will be a barrier because of that, or at least some sort of monetary fine... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Gilmore Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 7:18 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] immigration question Hi everyone,   I had someone come to me with a question about visas (of which I know nothing about.) The situation is this: A woman is an American citizen and wants to get her husband (an illegal) a visa. She is going to be under the care of a medical professional soon. She was told by an immigration attorney that her husband would have to return to his homeland for eight months to a year and would be able to come back due to the attorney obtaining a visa waiver because he (husband) is the only one who can help take care of the kids since she (wife) will be under medical care.   Anyway, I guess I was the "second opinion" so to speak. The attorney who told her this used to work for the feds so I don't know why I'm being asked. (I would think the attorney would know if anyone would.) Any assistance that any of you can give me would be very much appreciated.   Thanks.   Mike  _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Fri Jun 17 15:05:45 2011 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 15:05:45 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? Message-ID: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F4006@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Good morning counsels, I have a friend that is seeking legal counsel regarding questions related to family law, and more to the point, sapcr issues. She is blind, low income (ssi and child aide), and the child's Father has told her if she tries to leave the current city or state to find better housing or work that he will sue for full custody. She says his support is lacking therefore she must do something in order to better support her child. I do not have direct knowledge to the full legal issues as I have not reviewed any court documents, but rather have only provided what she has told me. She is afraid to find a lawyer directly as she believes there is no way she could get counsel without mortgaging off her only child in payment. I have not provided her any direct help as first as a student attorney I cannot do so unless the case comes through our legal clinic, and second I am in Texas. However, I believe our profession to be one of honor, and that one of our primary duties is to provide counsel to those who require it in a helpful form, I told her that I would ask all of you in order to find her some assistance. What legal aid programs do you believe would provide her legal guidance in these and related matters taking into account her financial situation? Thank you very much for your assistance. Have a good day, and continue, as I do, standing for justice, and zealously advocate for the truth. Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Fri Jun 17 15:26:08 2011 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 08:26:08 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? In-Reply-To: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F4006@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> References: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F4006@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EDBE@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Is there a Legal Aid office (under the federal Legal Services program) in her city? I don't know about all offices under that charter do so, but at least here, Southern Arizona Legal Aid does a lot of family law matters, as well as some disability issues which might also be part of this case. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dittman, Robert Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:06 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? Good morning counsels, I have a friend that is seeking legal counsel regarding questions related to family law, and more to the point, sapcr issues. She is blind, low income (ssi and child aide), and the child's Father has told her if she tries to leave the current city or state to find better housing or work that he will sue for full custody. She says his support is lacking therefore she must do something in order to better support her child. I do not have direct knowledge to the full legal issues as I have not reviewed any court documents, but rather have only provided what she has told me. She is afraid to find a lawyer directly as she believes there is no way she could get counsel without mortgaging off her only child in payment. I have not provided her any direct help as first as a student attorney I cannot do so unless the case comes through our legal clinic, and second I am in Texas. However, I believe our profession to be one of honor, and that one of our primary duties is to provide counsel to those who require it in a helpful form, I told her that I would ask all of you in order to find her some assistance. What legal aid programs do you believe would provide her legal guidance in these and related matters taking into account her financial situation? Thank you very much for your assistance. Have a good day, and continue, as I do, standing for justice, and zealously advocate for the truth. Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From kgilbride at dralegal.org Fri Jun 17 17:31:29 2011 From: kgilbride at dralegal.org (Karla Gilbride) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:31:29 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? In-Reply-To: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F4006@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> References: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F4006@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <754D9C7D0111F64FB1C87BD46B8ACD1C0105A7C6@draexchange.dralegal.com> I would recommend that she contact her local office of Disability Rights California, which she can find by visiting http://www.disabilityrightsca.org/about/index.htm. Good luck, Karla -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dittman, Robert Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:06 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? Good morning counsels, I have a friend that is seeking legal counsel regarding questions related to family law, and more to the point, sapcr issues. She is blind, low income (ssi and child aide), and the child's Father has told her if she tries to leave the current city or state to find better housing or work that he will sue for full custody. She says his support is lacking therefore she must do something in order to better support her child. I do not have direct knowledge to the full legal issues as I have not reviewed any court documents, but rather have only provided what she has told me. She is afraid to find a lawyer directly as she believes there is no way she could get counsel without mortgaging off her only child in payment. I have not provided her any direct help as first as a student attorney I cannot do so unless the case comes through our legal clinic, and second I am in Texas. However, I believe our profession to be one of honor, and that one of our primary duties is to provide counsel to those who require it in a helpful form, I told her that I would ask all of you in order to find her some assistance. What legal aid programs do you believe would provide her legal guidance in these and related matters taking into account her financial situation? Thank you very much for your assistance. Have a good day, and continue, as I do, standing for justice, and zealously advocate for the truth. Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kgilbride%40dr alegal.org From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 17 18:12:13 2011 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:12:13 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? In-Reply-To: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F4006@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> References: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F4006@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: as she is low income and is dealing with a family law matter the legal assistance program in her area should be able to be of service. you can contact me off listat ckrugman at sbcglobal.net with her locale and I will refer you to the appropriate program in her geographic area that may be able to provide service to her. Charles L. krugman, M.S.W. Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dittman, Robert" To: Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:05 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? > Good morning counsels, > > I have a friend that is seeking legal counsel regarding questions related > to family law, and more to the point, sapcr issues. > > She is blind, low income (ssi and child aide), and the child's Father has > told her if she tries to leave the current city or state to find better > housing or work that he will sue for full custody. She says his support > is lacking therefore she must do something in order to better support her > child. I do not have direct knowledge to the full legal issues as I have > not reviewed any court documents, but rather have only provided what she > has told me. She is afraid to find a lawyer directly as she believes > there is no way she could get counsel without mortgaging off her only > child in payment. I have not provided her any direct help as first as a > student attorney I cannot do so unless the case comes through our legal > clinic, and second I am in Texas. However, I believe our profession to be > one of honor, and that one of our primary duties is to provide counsel to > those who require it in a helpful form, I told her that I would ask all of > you in order to find her some assistance. > What legal aid programs do you believe would provide her legal guidance in > these and related matters taking into account her financial situation? > > Thank you very much for your assistance. > > > Have a good day, and continue, as I do, standing for justice, and > zealously advocate for the truth. > > Robert D. Dittman > Student Attorney > St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) > 2507 N.W. 36th Street > San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 > Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 > Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail > and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Fri Jun 17 18:54:58 2011 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 18:54:58 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? In-Reply-To: References: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F4006@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F41ED@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Mr. Krugman, Thank you for receiving my call, and for offering to provide assistance to my friend. I hope you can be of some service, and your willingness to assist brings credit to yourself, and the legal profession. Warmest regards, Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX  78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760  fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 1:12 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? as she is low income and is dealing with a family law matter the legal assistance program in her area should be able to be of service. you can contact me off listat ckrugman at sbcglobal.net with her locale and I will refer you to the appropriate program in her geographic area that may be able to provide service to her. Charles L. krugman, M.S.W. Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dittman, Robert" To: Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:05 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? > Good morning counsels, > > I have a friend that is seeking legal counsel regarding questions > related to family law, and more to the point, sapcr issues. > > She is blind, low income (ssi and child aide), and the child's Father > has told her if she tries to leave the current city or state to find > better housing or work that he will sue for full custody. She says > his support is lacking therefore she must do something in order to > better support her child. I do not have direct knowledge to the full > legal issues as I have not reviewed any court documents, but rather > have only provided what she has told me. She is afraid to find a > lawyer directly as she believes there is no way she could get counsel > without mortgaging off her only child in payment. I have not provided > her any direct help as first as a student attorney I cannot do so > unless the case comes through our legal clinic, and second I am in > Texas. However, I believe our profession to be one of honor, and that > one of our primary duties is to provide counsel to those who require > it in a helpful form, I told her that I would ask all of you in order to find her some assistance. > What legal aid programs do you believe would provide her legal > guidance in these and related matters taking into account her financial situation? > > Thank you very much for your assistance. > > > Have a good day, and continue, as I do, standing for justice, and > zealously advocate for the truth. > > Robert D. Dittman > Student Attorney > St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil > Clinic) > 2507 N.W. 36th Street > San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 > Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 > Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail > and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > bcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu From rumpole at roadrunner.com Fri Jun 17 22:33:47 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 18:33:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S Attorney Postings - 3 in Kansas 1 in Florida Message-ID: <82A3EC829AC04223A8CF2332F6892AC2@none8a46117901> * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF KANSAS VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 11-KS-SAUSA-03 Applications must be received by 7/18/2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/sausa-civvacann-kansascity.htm * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF KANSAS VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 11-KS-SAUSA-02 Applications must be received by 7/18/2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/sausacivvacann-topeka.htm * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF KANSAS VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 11-KS-SAUSA-01 Applications must be received by 7/18/2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/sausa-civvacann-wichita.htm * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS CONSOLIDATED LEGAL CENTER FEDERAL CORRECTIONAL COMPLEX COLEMAN, FLORIDA ATTORNEY ADVISOR GS-905-12/13 This position is open until filled, but no later than June 28, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/colemanclcattyvac.htm Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From rumpole at roadrunner.com Sat Jun 18 00:35:42 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 20:35:42 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates, NPR Morning Edition, June 15, 2011 References: Message-ID: I am appalled to hear this story. Twenty seven years ago when I began my trek to go to law school the LSAS refused accommodations for me that were, in any realistic sense, worth while. I won't bore those on this list with my tale of woe with the LSAS, but I will say that I had to take the test more than once and my scores were flagged with the warning that the score may not be valid because I'd been provided with a testing accommodation, and went on to take the GRE and the Master's program exam just to get test scores that would not say, up front, that I was a bad bet because I'd taken the LSAT with an accommodation. Why on earth is the LSAS still being permitted to get away with this? I've been practicing law since 1990 in two states with a pretty good record as an on-my-feet litigator and have proven myself in Administrative settings, state courts on almost all levels and in Federal court. I'm blind, and I think I've proven that the LSAS was just plain wrong with their out dated disability testing policy. I was rejected 10 times in my efforts to go to law school here in New England for exactly the same reason that Mr. Binno complains of. I was accepted into the University of Santa Clara School of law under their special appointments program, a program that may, or may not be in effect there any longer. But I can tell you that, at the time, Santa Clara was very near the top of the ratings that were then put out by the Gourrman report. IF memory serves me correctly, it was rated 12th in the nation at the time. IT is one of two Jesuit law schools (the other one being Georgetown) and I am very proud that they not only accepted me, but gave me a top notch legal education. They saw me as a good student who worked hard. Not as an LSAT score. In contrast, back when I was trying to get a decent score on the LSAT - I clearly recall being asked what I really had problems with in testing. My response was two fold - first, a bit of additional time to take the LSAT because it simply takes longer to read out loud than it does to read to yourself - and questions that depend upon visual ability, involving colors, graphs and diagrams, were simply unfair and almost impossible to deal with as a blind individual. Second, when the LSAS is communicating with me, handwritten letters in pencil simply defeat my adaptive technology, so if possible, could they please send me letters that are typewritten or on audio tape. They responded to me by postcard, handwritten in pencil. After the subsequent passage of the Americans With Disabilities Act and passage of enough time for the testing services to "catch up" with reality - I am stunned to hear that this prehistoric mentality continues to exist in professional testing services. In my opinion, and it is only one man's opinion, it is the LSAS that needs to be brought up short here and the ABA should be doing it. As a practicing attorney, I want to know why it is that individuals as well as businesses will do what normal, thinking people know to be legally, morally and fundamentally correct right after they have been snarled into a corner and ordered to do so by a Federal Judge, and not one minute before? In all my years of practice, I have never once seen a state or Federal law that prohibits logical reasoning, independent thought or common sense. The LSAS is not prohibited from modernizing its testing procedures relative to applicants with a disability of any sort, not just blindness. By the way, are law schools nationwide warned that the LSAS administers a test that is inaccurate for a known percentage of those tested with it? Somehow, I think not. Some things have improved though - for example, the days when lawyers ask me questions during a job interview like: "Did you take the real bar exam, or one of those tests for handicapped people?" And "Have you learned how to use a telephone yet?" Are no longer asked. And yes, those are both real questions that I have been asked in job interviews over past years. I'm sure others on this list have been asked some that are just as bad or worse. But then again, the unemployment rate among qualified lawyers with a visual impairment is still disgraceful in a profession that is supposed to pride itself on equality and justice. To again state my opinion, the ABA should be on the LSAS about their testing policy in this situation. This issue represents an embarrassment to the ABA, and a long standing problem that should have been hanged and buried a very long time ago. Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nightingale, Noel" To: Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 1:19 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates, NPR Morning Edition, June 15, 2011 > > Link: > http://www.npr.org/2011/06/15/137179261/blind-law-student-claims-discrimination-in-testing > > Text: > Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates > by Quinn Klinefelter > June 15, 2011 > Morning Edition > Transcript > > William Archie/Detroit Free Press > > Attorney Richard Bernstein (left) and Angelo Binno walk through the law > office of The Bernstein Law Firm in Farmington Hills, Mich., on May 24. > Binno, who is legally blind, is suing the American Bar Association, saying > its standards don't accommodate blind law school applicants. > > June 15, 2011 from WDET > A prospective law school student in Michigan is suing the American Bar > Association over a case he argues is truly a matter of blind justice. The > student says he is being denied access to top-tier law schools because of > a test he says no one who's blind could possibly pass. > > The Law School Admission Test, commonly known as the LSAT, typically > features more than a dozen questions where test takers are strongly > encouraged to draw out a written diagram to solve the problem. > > Law school hopeful Angelo Binno was born blind and has overcome many > obstacles. But, the 28-year-old says, he could not overcome the low test > scores he kept getting when taking the LSAT. And, because of those scores, > he was rejected by the three law schools he applied to. > > "I can't work any harder. I can't study any harder. I can't figure it out, > because I can't draw out a diagram like a sighted person can to figure out > the answers to these questions," Binno says. > > Binno is no slouch. He graduated from his high school a year early, had an > internship at a law firm after graduating and speaks three languages. He > also worked for the Department of Homeland Security before funding > cutbacks led to a layoff. > > But Binno says he was stymied in his attempt to become a lawyer because > the American Bar Association requires law schools to use a "valid and > reliable" admissions test. Only the LSAT qualifies. > > "The ABA is supposed to be standing up for justice," he says. "What are > they standing for in this situation? I'm not saying that I should receive > an automatic entrance into law school. All I'm saying is, give me a level > playing field," he says. > > Binno turned to a sympathetic friend for help. > > Attorney Richard Bernstein is blind, but he says he received a waiver to > enter law school 15 years ago. Shortly thereafter, the ABA revised its > standards and, Bernstein claims, threatened to penalize schools that gave > too many waivers or did not use the LSAT. > > Now, Bernstein is suing the ABA, arguing that the LSAT violates the > Americans with Disabilities Act. > > "They are basically forcing U.S. law schools to break federal law by > requiring applicants to take an illegal exam. The Americans with > Disabilities Act is very clear about this," Bernstein says. "It is illegal > to require someone to take an exam which, on its face, is discriminatory." > > In a written statement, the ABA says it requires universities it accredits > to conform to federal law, and that accommodations are made for people > with disabilities. > > Those who have judged law school applications, like Wayne State University > Professor David Moss, say some universities do accept students with low > LSAT scores. But, Moss says, the company creating the LSAT directs that > tests given with special accommodations - like those granted to blind > students - should not be given the same weight as regular LSATs. > > "They've got this flag on it that screams out, 'Beware of this test > result, it could be dangerous to your health,'" Moss says. > > Schools are concerned it might damage their rankings - and prestige - in > the annual ratings by U.S. News and World Report. > > Donald Polden, dean of Santa Clara University Law School, leads an ABA > committee reviewing accreditation standards. He says the ABA does grant > some schools exemptions from using the LSAT, but top-tier programs don't > want to risk their rankings. > > "The stories are legend about a five- or six-position swing in a school > has caused the loss of jobs of administrators or students to flee for > other law schools," he says. > > Polden says many on his committee think the ABA should eliminate the use > of the LSAT as a prerequisite to enter any law school. > > In the meantime, Angelo Binno waits for his day in court - not as the > attorney he hopes he'll eventually become, but as a plaintiff arguing that > his disability should not prevent him from reaching the top ranks of his > chosen profession. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3707 - Release Date: 06/16/11 > From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Sat Jun 18 01:52:47 2011 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 21:52:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates, NPR Morning Edition, June 15, 2011 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301cc2d5a$6c5a8540$450f8fc0$@wiennergould.com> Somebody had better sue. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ross Doerr Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:36 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates, NPR Morning Edition, June 15, 2011 I am appalled to hear this story. Twenty seven years ago when I began my trek to go to law school the LSAS refused accommodations for me that were, in any realistic sense, worth while. I won't bore those on this list with my tale of woe with the LSAS, but I will say that I had to take the test more than once and my scores were flagged with the warning that the score may not be valid because I'd been provided with a testing accommodation, and went on to take the GRE and the Master's program exam just to get test scores that would not say, up front, that I was a bad bet because I'd taken the LSAT with an accommodation. Why on earth is the LSAS still being permitted to get away with this? I've been practicing law since 1990 in two states with a pretty good record as an on-my-feet litigator and have proven myself in Administrative settings, state courts on almost all levels and in Federal court. I'm blind, and I think I've proven that the LSAS was just plain wrong with their out dated disability testing policy. I was rejected 10 times in my efforts to go to law school here in New England for exactly the same reason that Mr. Binno complains of. I was accepted into the University of Santa Clara School of law under their special appointments program, a program that may, or may not be in effect there any longer. But I can tell you that, at the time, Santa Clara was very near the top of the ratings that were then put out by the Gourrman report. IF memory serves me correctly, it was rated 12th in the nation at the time. IT is one of two Jesuit law schools (the other one being Georgetown) and I am very proud that they not only accepted me, but gave me a top notch legal education. They saw me as a good student who worked hard. Not as an LSAT score. In contrast, back when I was trying to get a decent score on the LSAT - I clearly recall being asked what I really had problems with in testing. My response was two fold - first, a bit of additional time to take the LSAT because it simply takes longer to read out loud than it does to read to yourself - and questions that depend upon visual ability, involving colors, graphs and diagrams, were simply unfair and almost impossible to deal with as a blind individual. Second, when the LSAS is communicating with me, handwritten letters in pencil simply defeat my adaptive technology, so if possible, could they please send me letters that are typewritten or on audio tape. They responded to me by postcard, handwritten in pencil. After the subsequent passage of the Americans With Disabilities Act and passage of enough time for the testing services to "catch up" with reality - I am stunned to hear that this prehistoric mentality continues to exist in professional testing services. In my opinion, and it is only one man's opinion, it is the LSAS that needs to be brought up short here and the ABA should be doing it. As a practicing attorney, I want to know why it is that individuals as well as businesses will do what normal, thinking people know to be legally, morally and fundamentally correct right after they have been snarled into a corner and ordered to do so by a Federal Judge, and not one minute before? In all my years of practice, I have never once seen a state or Federal law that prohibits logical reasoning, independent thought or common sense. The LSAS is not prohibited from modernizing its testing procedures relative to applicants with a disability of any sort, not just blindness. By the way, are law schools nationwide warned that the LSAS administers a test that is inaccurate for a known percentage of those tested with it? Somehow, I think not. Some things have improved though - for example, the days when lawyers ask me questions during a job interview like: "Did you take the real bar exam, or one of those tests for handicapped people?" And "Have you learned how to use a telephone yet?" Are no longer asked. And yes, those are both real questions that I have been asked in job interviews over past years. I'm sure others on this list have been asked some that are just as bad or worse. But then again, the unemployment rate among qualified lawyers with a visual impairment is still disgraceful in a profession that is supposed to pride itself on equality and justice. To again state my opinion, the ABA should be on the LSAS about their testing policy in this situation. This issue represents an embarrassment to the ABA, and a long standing problem that should have been hanged and buried a very long time ago. Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nightingale, Noel" To: Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 1:19 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates, NPR Morning Edition, June 15, 2011 > > Link: > http://www.npr.org/2011/06/15/137179261/blind-law-student-claims-discriminat ion-in-testing > > Text: > Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates > by Quinn Klinefelter > June 15, 2011 > Morning Edition > Transcript > > William Archie/Detroit Free Press > > Attorney Richard Bernstein (left) and Angelo Binno walk through the law > office of The Bernstein Law Firm in Farmington Hills, Mich., on May 24. > Binno, who is legally blind, is suing the American Bar Association, saying > its standards don't accommodate blind law school applicants. > > June 15, 2011 from WDET > A prospective law school student in Michigan is suing the American Bar > Association over a case he argues is truly a matter of blind justice. The > student says he is being denied access to top-tier law schools because of > a test he says no one who's blind could possibly pass. > > The Law School Admission Test, commonly known as the LSAT, typically > features more than a dozen questions where test takers are strongly > encouraged to draw out a written diagram to solve the problem. > > Law school hopeful Angelo Binno was born blind and has overcome many > obstacles. But, the 28-year-old says, he could not overcome the low test > scores he kept getting when taking the LSAT. And, because of those scores, > he was rejected by the three law schools he applied to. > > "I can't work any harder. I can't study any harder. I can't figure it out, > because I can't draw out a diagram like a sighted person can to figure out > the answers to these questions," Binno says. > > Binno is no slouch. He graduated from his high school a year early, had an > internship at a law firm after graduating and speaks three languages. He > also worked for the Department of Homeland Security before funding > cutbacks led to a layoff. > > But Binno says he was stymied in his attempt to become a lawyer because > the American Bar Association requires law schools to use a "valid and > reliable" admissions test. Only the LSAT qualifies. > > "The ABA is supposed to be standing up for justice," he says. "What are > they standing for in this situation? I'm not saying that I should receive > an automatic entrance into law school. All I'm saying is, give me a level > playing field," he says. > > Binno turned to a sympathetic friend for help. > > Attorney Richard Bernstein is blind, but he says he received a waiver to > enter law school 15 years ago. Shortly thereafter, the ABA revised its > standards and, Bernstein claims, threatened to penalize schools that gave > too many waivers or did not use the LSAT. > > Now, Bernstein is suing the ABA, arguing that the LSAT violates the > Americans with Disabilities Act. > > "They are basically forcing U.S. law schools to break federal law by > requiring applicants to take an illegal exam. The Americans with > Disabilities Act is very clear about this," Bernstein says. "It is illegal > to require someone to take an exam which, on its face, is discriminatory." > > In a written statement, the ABA says it requires universities it accredits > to conform to federal law, and that accommodations are made for people > with disabilities. > > Those who have judged law school applications, like Wayne State University > Professor David Moss, say some universities do accept students with low > LSAT scores. But, Moss says, the company creating the LSAT directs that > tests given with special accommodations - like those granted to blind > students - should not be given the same weight as regular LSATs. > > "They've got this flag on it that screams out, 'Beware of this test > result, it could be dangerous to your health,'" Moss says. > > Schools are concerned it might damage their rankings - and prestige - in > the annual ratings by U.S. News and World Report. > > Donald Polden, dean of Santa Clara University Law School, leads an ABA > committee reviewing accreditation standards. He says the ABA does grant > some schools exemptions from using the LSAT, but top-tier programs don't > want to risk their rankings. > > "The stories are legend about a five- or six-position swing in a school > has caused the loss of jobs of administrators or students to flee for > other law schools," he says. > > Polden says many on his committee think the ABA should eliminate the use > of the LSAT as a prerequisite to enter any law school. > > In the meantime, Angelo Binno waits for his day in court - not as the > attorney he hopes he'll eventually become, but as a plaintiff arguing that > his disability should not prevent him from reaching the top ranks of his > chosen profession. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunn er.com > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3707 - Release Date: 06/16/11 > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com From AZNOR99 at aol.com Sun Jun 19 00:30:19 2011 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 20:30:19 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] immigration question Message-ID: <182d9.43676b2b.3b2e9d1b@aol.com> Be careful. If he has a criminal background or has ever been in any immigration procedings in the past, they may not approve his visa. They also may choose not to renew his visa if he comes from a particular country with whom the U.S. does not offer humanitarian visa waivers. Finally, the 8-9 months is just an estimate; I've been aware of folks who've expected that and have been now waiting 8-10 years. I'd suggest that she contact USCIS directly to ask about her particular circumstances. There are also some situations when it's more appropriate to request political asylum (if warranted) rather than returning to the original country. Finally, there are certain situations when it isn't necessary to leave the U.S. at all to apply for a greencard. She can petition for an I-130 for him (spouse's petition for permanent residency) and while he's in procedings, they can't deport him or anything. Good luck. Ronza In a message dated 6/17/2011 10:54:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Susan.Kelly at pima.gov writes: I haven't done active immigration representation since I started at the public defenders' office, but from what I need to know to stay current for that position indicates that the information is correct. Humanitarian waivers are generally available for medical and similar purposes. My only concern might be the fact that if they have kids together, the feds will automatically know (or at least suspect) that he previously entered without documentation. I don't know if there will be a barrier because of that, or at least some sort of monetary fine... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Gilmore Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 7:18 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] immigration question Hi everyone, I had someone come to me with a question about visas (of which I know nothing about.) The situation is this: A woman is an American citizen and wants to get her husband (an illegal) a visa. She is going to be under the care of a medical professional soon. She was told by an immigration attorney that her husband would have to return to his homeland for eight months to a year and would be able to come back due to the attorney obtaining a visa waiver because he (husband) is the only one who can help take care of the kids since she (wife) will be under medical care. Anyway, I guess I was the "second opinion" so to speak. The attorney who told her this used to work for the feds so I don't know why I'm being asked. (I would think the attorney would know if anyone would.) Any assistance that any of you can give me would be very much appreciated. Thanks. Mike _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima .gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From mgmckay1963 at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 00:50:35 2011 From: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com (Michael McKay) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 21:50:35 -0300 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: Message-ID: Greetings! all: My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later then the end of March 2012. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Respectfully! -- *Michael G. McKay * *70 Grove Crescent,* *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* *Canada. P6B 5V4* E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 01:16:43 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 19:16:43 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com> Hi, Michael. Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts accommodated tests without a red flag. Good luck Beth Taurasi Sent from my iPod On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay wrote: > Greetings! all: > > My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look forword to > participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also > contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick > Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I > was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam called > an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have access to > a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of > the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later then > the end of March 2012. > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. > > Respectfully! > > -- > *Michael G. McKay > * > *70 Grove Crescent,* > *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* > *Canada. P6B 5V4* > E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com From mgmckay1963 at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 01:25:33 2011 From: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com (Michael McKay) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 22:25:33 -0300 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com> References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Beth: Thanks for the reply. Do you have a website url for the NPR story of LSAT. If so, I would like to access it. I spoke to the admissions officer, and she said that they would be willing to accomidate. Please re-reply with the NPR story url, when you are able. Thanks much again, for the advice Michael G. McKay On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Beth wrote: > Hi, Michael. > Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get into law > school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second look before you > take it, and > be sure the Canadian Bar accepts accommodated tests without a red flag. > Good luck > Beth Taurasi > Sent from my iPod > > On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay wrote: > > > Greetings! all: > > > > My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look forword > to > > participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also > > contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick > > Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. > I > > was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam > called > > an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have access > to > > a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost > of > > the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later > then > > the end of March 2012. > > > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Respectfully! > > > > -- > > *Michael G. McKay > > * > > *70 Grove Crescent,* > > *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* > > *Canada. P6B 5V4* > > E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mgmckay1963%40gmail.com > -- *Michael G. McKay * *70 Grove Crescent,* *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* *Canada. P6B 5V4* E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 02:05:51 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 20:05:51 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com> Message-ID: I don't have the exact url for the story, but it's at the NPR website. You could probably do a search for the LSAT story. I believe the headline read something like "Blind would-be law student sues ABA" or something to that effect. URL's are hard for anybody to memorize because it's kind of long. What doesn't help is that I have the app on my iPod. Beth Sent from my iPod On Jun 18, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Michael McKay wrote: > Hi Beth: > > Thanks for the reply. Do you have a website url for the NPR story of LSAT. > If so, I would like to access it. I spoke to the admissions officer, and she > said that they would be willing to accomidate. Please re-reply with the NPR > story url, when you are able. > > Thanks much again, for the advice > > Michael G. McKay > > On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Beth wrote: > >> Hi, Michael. >> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get into law >> school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second look before you >> take it, and >> be sure the Canadian Bar accepts accommodated tests without a red flag. >> Good luck >> Beth Taurasi >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay wrote: >> >>> Greetings! all: >>> >>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look forword >> to >>> participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also >>> contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick >>> Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. >> I >>> was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam >> called >>> an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have access >> to >>> a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost >> of >>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later >> then >>> the end of March 2012. >>> >>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks in advance. >>> >>> Respectfully! >>> >>> -- >>> *Michael G. McKay >>> * >>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info fo >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mgmckay1963%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > *Michael G. McKay > * > *70 Grove Crescent,* > *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* > *Canada. P6B 5V4* > E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com From mgmckay1963 at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 02:36:55 2011 From: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com (Michael McKay) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 23:36:55 -0300 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Beth: Thanks for this. I will vheck it out, and let you know. Blessings! Michael G. McKay E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 11:05 PM, Beth wrote: > I don't have the exact url for the story, but it's at the NPR website. You > could probably do a search for the LSAT story. I believe the headline read > something like "Blind would-be law student sues ABA" or something to that > effect. URL's are hard for anybody to memorize because it's kind of long. > What doesn't help is that I have the app on my iPod. > Beth > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jun 18, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Michael McKay wrote: > > > Hi Beth: > > > > Thanks for the reply. Do you have a website url for the NPR story of > LSAT. > > If so, I would like to access it. I spoke to the admissions officer, and > she > > said that they would be willing to accomidate. Please re-reply with the > NPR > > story url, when you are able. > > > > Thanks much again, for the advice > > > > Michael G. McKay > > > > On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Beth > wrote: > > > >> Hi, Michael. > >> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get into > law > >> school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second look before you > >> take it, and > >> be sure the Canadian Bar accepts accommodated tests without a red flag. > >> Good luck > >> Beth Taurasi > >> Sent from my iPod > >> > >> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay > wrote: > >> > >>> Greetings! all: > >>> > >>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look > forword > >> to > >>> participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also > >>> contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick > >>> Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's > Campus. > >> I > >>> was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam > >> called > >>> an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have > access > >> to > >>> a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the > cost > >> of > >>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later > >> then > >>> the end of March 2012. > >>> > >>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > >>> > >>> Thanks in advance. > >>> > >>> Respectfully! > >>> > >>> -- > >>> *Michael G. McKay > >>> * > >>> *70 Grove Crescent,* > >>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* > >>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* > >>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info fo > >> blindlaw: > >> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mgmckay1963%40gmail.com > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > *Michael G. McKay > > * > > *70 Grove Crescent,* > > *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* > > *Canada. P6B 5V4* > > E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mgmckay1963%40gmail.com > -- *Michael G. McKay * *70 Grove Crescent,* *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* *Canada. P6B 5V4* E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com From emrene at earthlink.net Sun Jun 19 03:22:36 2011 From: emrene at earthlink.net (Elizabeth Rene) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 20:22:36 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says Test Discriminates - NPR Message-ID: <91AAF0CBEF90432EA524A8EA85C170D2@elizabethrene> I too am appalled that aspiring law students are hindered in their efforts to gain law school admission by the structure of the LSAT and by the conditions on which the test is given and interpreted. But something about the NPR article bothers me, and it jumps up to bite me right in the first paragraph. Are blind college grads really getting low LSAT scores because they are invited to draw diagrams for themselves in order to ease their approach to complex questions? Or is that just something an uninitiated reporter gleaned from a complex interview in hopes of reaching the general public? Only well into the article did I read that law schools are still warned that an LSAT test taken with reasonable accommodations has questionable validity, and that top-tier schools decline an option to disregard the LSAT altogether. Granted, one would think that the validity of standardized academic aptitude test scores earned under the tightly controlled conditions on which specific accommodations have been granted over the past 50 years or so should have been proven by now. If not, why not? And if there are pictures or diagrams in the test questions themselves that can't be replicated tactilely for blind students, why is that so? But if the whole thrust of a blind person's argument for higher education or employment is that he or she can find alternate means to solve a sighted person's problems, why should that blind test-taker balk at being invited to draw a picture to help him or her think more clearly? That diagram's only for ordinary people. If one doesn't think visually, noone can make him do that for a test. And what about this concern about top-tier law schools? Didn't Jacobus Tenbroek graduate from UC Berkeley's Boalt Hall? Or was it Stanford? Didn't the NFB's own Peggy Pinder get her JD from Harvard or Yale? What did they do with the LSAT? I took the LSAT in early 1975. I had to wait three years from leaving college for permission to take it in Braille, with an amanuensis to write the answers. The dreaded warning went with my scores. But I got accepted by three of the six law schools I applied to, and waiting listed by the other three. Had my undergraduate grades been better, those other schools might have accepted me, too. After law school, I got to do the work I wanted. And I had to deal with visual evidence, and to make visual evidence understandable to juries and to appellate judges every day. And as every lawyer knows, this had to be done in an adversary setting. Yes, I agree that the LSAT, the GRE, and other such tests have to be made more accessible so as not to discriminate unlawfully. But maybe they're a wake-up call to those who might be confronted for the first time with what they'll encounter on the job. And maybe that second- or third-tier law school, with a fat scholarship for those who excel, might not look so bad. One great thing about there being more and more of us blind lawyers and other professionals is that no one needs to pull blind test-taking and lawyering skills from the air. They've already been learned, and they can be shared. Elizabeth From william.burley3 at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 04:24:05 2011 From: william.burley3 at gmail.com (William Burley, III) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 23:24:05 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? Message-ID: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> Hello all! Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and accessibility. If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to using this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many others using Windows products? Thanks for any information! William Burley, III (713) 614-3322 William.burley3 at gmail.com Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more details. Need better internet service for cheaper? Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up TODAY! Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 15:18:06 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 11:18:06 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > Hi, Michael. > Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get into law > school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second look before you > take it, and > be sure the Canadian Bar accepts accommodated tests without a red flag. > Good luck > Beth Taurasi > Sent from my iPod > > On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay wrote: > >> Greetings! all: >> >> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look forword >> to >> participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also >> contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick >> Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. >> I >> was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam >> called >> an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have access >> to >> a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost >> of >> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later >> then >> the end of March 2012. >> >> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Respectfully! >> >> -- >> *Michael G. McKay >> * >> *70 Grove Crescent,* >> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From pattichang at att.net Sun Jun 19 15:45:45 2011 From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory-Chang) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 10:45:45 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91> I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Burley, III" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > Hello all! > > > > Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly > switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and > accessibility. > > > > If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to > using > this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? > What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many > others using Windows products? > > > > Thanks for any information! > > > > > > William Burley, III > > (713) 614-3322 > > William.burley3 at gmail.com > > > > Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! > > Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more > details. > > > > Need better internet service for cheaper? > > Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up > TODAY! > > > > Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 19 15:50:56 2011 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 08:50:56 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: <004a01cc2e98$ae2b9420$6b01a8c0@server> Hello Everyone, This discussion would be useful for many of us, so please share your posts with everyone. Thanks, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? >I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access >issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Burley, III" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > >> Hello all! >> >> >> >> Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering >> possibly >> switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and >> accessibility. >> >> >> >> If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to >> using >> this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? >> What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many >> others using Windows products? >> >> >> >> Thanks for any information! >> >> >> >> >> >> William Burley, III >> >> (713) 614-3322 >> >> William.burley3 at gmail.com >> >> >> >> Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, >> L.L.C.! >> >> Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more >> details. >> >> >> >> Need better internet service for cheaper? >> >> Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up >> TODAY! >> >> >> >> Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Sun Jun 19 16:07:41 2011 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 12:07:41 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <001001cc2e9b$04cc7ae0$0e6570a0$@wiennergould.com> I'm no tech guy, but here are some of my observations and hard lessons I have learned. I hope this helps somebody. I hear Macs are very accessible, but I've never tried one. However, the ipad and iphone are absolutely fantastic. The only thing with a mac is that microsoft office is not accessible at all. Apple's word processor, pages, is accessible, and is apparently 99% word compatible. However, I might be afraid of some formatting compatibility issues between pages and word, although your docs should be pretty simple and maybe you won't have any. That is the issue I would want to get feedback on though. Email and web access should not be a problem. As far as third party programs which are accessible on a mac, I hear good things, but have no firsthand knowledge. If you don't mind me asking, What accessibility issues are you having with jaws? I know jaws has had issues with Westlaw, but all you have to do after you log in is shut jaws off and turn it back on, and Westlaw seems to work fine. I don't even use the text addition of Westlaw, as I want all the features the full website offers. I am a trial attorney, and I use jaws with few issues. The only thing with jaws is that, in my experience, there are some web pages it simply won't read completely. Window-eyes will read many pages that jaws will not read. Jaws has never caught up with GW micro on web access, but window-eyes doesn't have all the features that jaws has, and can be more cumbersome to use. Also, jaws works better in word and outlook. Also, window-eyes has some bugs right now with windows 7. I did learn recently that if you are using jaws 12 in word, you will notice that office 2010 is real responsive. But apparently, in making word 2010 work so well, they somehow broke word 2003, because jaws 12 is very unresponsive in word 2003. If you have issues reading emails in word 2010 or 2007, you can display the email in HTML format by using the following keystrokes: alt H, A, V. Office 2010 uses word, rather than the browser, to display emails, and they can be hard to read. But once you get use to the keystrokes to dump unreadable emails into an HTML window, you can pretty much read most emails. Hope this helps somebody out there. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William Burley, III Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 12:24 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? Hello all! Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and accessibility. If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to using this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many others using Windows products? Thanks for any information! William Burley, III (713) 614-3322 William.burley3 at gmail.com Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more details. Need better internet service for cheaper? Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up TODAY! Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Sun Jun 19 16:12:52 2011 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 12:12:52 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <004a01cc2e98$ae2b9420$6b01a8c0@server> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91> <004a01cc2e98$ae2b9420$6b01a8c0@server> Message-ID: <001101cc2e9b$bdf79630$39e6c290$@wiennergould.com> I just wrote to Patti off list, but I think this is right. We can all learn from other folks accessibility war stories. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Clark Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:51 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? Hello Everyone, This discussion would be useful for many of us, so please share your posts with everyone. Thanks, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? >I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access >issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Burley, III" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > >> Hello all! >> >> >> >> Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering >> possibly >> switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and >> accessibility. >> >> >> >> If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to >> using >> this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? >> What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many >> others using Windows products? >> >> >> >> Thanks for any information! >> >> >> >> >> >> William Burley, III >> >> (713) 614-3322 >> >> William.burley3 at gmail.com >> >> >> >> Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, >> L.L.C.! >> >> Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more >> details. >> >> >> >> Need better internet service for cheaper? >> >> Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up >> TODAY! >> >> >> >> Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbc global.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 19 18:14:42 2011 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 11:14:42 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <001101cc2e9b$bdf79630$39e6c290$@wiennergould.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91> <004a01cc2e98$ae2b9420$6b01a8c0@server> <001101cc2e9b$bdf79630$39e6c290$@wiennergould.com> Message-ID: <2F37C39C-5507-4822-95C7-37F2FC16CA74@sbcglobal.net> I use a mac for almost everything, for what it's worth. I offer tutoring services (write of list) or will just answer questions if I can. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I use a Mac and like it MUCH better than the PC. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 20:00:50 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 14:00:50 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: <92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn> References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com> <92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate material on it. Beth Sent from my iPod On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" wrote: > Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> Hi, Michael. >> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second look before you take it, and >> be sure the Canadian Bar accepts accommodated tests without a red flag. >> Good luck >> Beth Taurasi >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay wrote: >> >>> Greetings! all: >>> >>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look forword to >>> participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also >>> contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick >>> Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I >>> was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam called >>> an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have access to >>> a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later then >>> the end of March 2012. >>> >>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks in advance. >>> >>> Respectfully! >>> >>> -- >>> *Michael G. McKay >>> * >>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 20:10:39 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 16:10:39 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn> I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the LSAT is > what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. Remember those > things on the SAT? The only difference is that having accommodations on > this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate material on it. > Beth > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" > wrote: > >> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> Hi, Michael. >>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get into >>> law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second look before >>> you take it, and >>> be sure the Canadian Bar accepts accommodated tests without a red flag. >>> Good luck >>> Beth Taurasi >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Greetings! all: >>>> >>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>> forword to >>>> participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also >>>> contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick >>>> Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's >>>> Campus. I >>>> was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam >>>> called >>>> an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have >>>> access to >>>> a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the >>>> cost of >>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later >>>> then >>>> the end of March 2012. >>>> >>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance. >>>> >>>> Respectfully! >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>> * >>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From lists at zufelt.ca Sun Jun 19 20:17:05 2011 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 16:17:05 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: <2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn> References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn> <2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Good afternoon Michael, I did a year of law at UNB. They were very accommodating. After doing reasonably well on the LSAT I was given a $10k entrance scholarship. I have no idea if there is an alternate way of paying for the LSAT, but you should find UNB to be a comfortable law school to study at. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-06-19, at 4:10 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate material on it. >> Beth >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" wrote: >> >>> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>>> Hi, Michael. >>>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second look before you take it, and >>>> be sure the Canadian Bar accepts accommodated tests without a red flag. >>>> Good luck >>>> Beth Taurasi >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay wrote: >>>> >>>>> Greetings! all: >>>>> >>>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look forword to >>>>> participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also >>>>> contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick >>>>> Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I >>>>> was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam called >>>>> an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have access to >>>>> a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later then >>>>> the end of March 2012. >>>>> >>>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully! >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>>> * >>>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 19 20:37:15 2011 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 13:37:15 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><004a01cc2e98$ae2b9420$6b01a8c0@server><001101cc2e9b$bdf79630$39e6c290$@wiennergould.com> <2F37C39C-5507-4822-95C7-37F2FC16CA74@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <008101cc2ec0$ad9d7dc0$6b01a8c0@server> Hello Mark and everyone, It will be very helpful for us to hear from blind users who have real world experience using the Mac. I have just spent a month upgrading to Windows 7 as a result of needing new server hardware, and we are still limping along with less functionality than before the upgrade. The cost to me in lost time, lost functionality, decreased efficiency of my employees and myself, and the cost of paying my employees salaries while they figure out how to do their work in this new and unfamiliar environment is totally unwarranted. As a result I have decided that we will be moving to a Mac or Linux solution, and I am hopeful that it can be the Mac using voiceover. Since one of my objectives is to eliminate Windows based programs from my office if possible, I am not interested in using bootcamp or fusion. If you could tell us about the programs you have used with voiceover, and which have worked well and which have not, it would be very valuable. As attorneys we more often than not work with M.S. Word files, though I do not think that this means we must use M.S. Word or office. Which Apple Mac word processors have you used with voiceover, and are they able to open, work with, and then save files in Word format? Next, I would be curious to know which Apple Mac email programs are provided with or can be purchased with the Mac, and how well they work with Voiceover. How easy is it to save attachments with these programs, and how easy is it to create folders and move messages into them from the inbox. Next, which web browsers are provided or available for the Mac using Voiceover, and what are their pros and cons when compared to IE or Firebox? Have you had any experience with backup software for the Mac, since this is very important for a law firm? For those of us who are blind, optical character recognition software has become an important part of our accessibility arsenal. I was pleased to learn this morning that ABBY Finereader has a version of their OCR software for the Mac called Abby Express. I use ABBYY frequently on our Windows machines, so this removes a big obstacle when considering whether or not to move to the Mac. Have you had any experience with this program or any other OCR software on the Mac? The only criticism that I saw about ABBY Express, was that it uses a twain interface, which is apparently not standard on the Mac. Other than that, users thought it did an excellent job on optical character recognition. Have you read or scanned books on the Mac, and if so, what scanner and software do you use? I do most of my reading with Kurzweil under Windows, because I like many of its features such as that both lines and pages can be of any length, and are not artificially imposed as is the case with most word processors such as M.S. Word. This is particularly important for reading books, where one must know their actual location in a book to create accurate citations. Additionally, I find Kurzweil's multilevel bookmark system to be very helpful when reading case documents and pleadings. I have been hoping that Kurzweil would make a Mac version available, but I have heard nothing to suggest that this might happen. I want to thank Mark and others for reading this lengthy email, and I would really appreciate hearing your thoughts. All the best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? >I use a mac for almost everything, for what it's worth. I offer tutoring >services (write of list) or will just answer questions if I can. I'm not a >lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I use a Mac and like it MUCH better >than the PC. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From william.burley3 at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 22:00:53 2011 From: william.burley3 at gmail.com (William Burley, III) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 17:00:53 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <001001cc2e9b$04cc7ae0$0e6570a0$@wiennergould.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <001001cc2e9b$04cc7ae0$0e6570a0$@wiennergould.com> Message-ID: <4dfe71a3.13c7640a.684d.ffff939d@mx.google.com> Hi Daniel. I think this e-mail helps. The accessibility issues that I'm having with Jaws is that it simply crashes too much for my taste and I've gone through almost a week of not being able to work because FS broke my license and nothing seemed to work to get it going again until today. I wasn't able to respond to a couple potential clients because my Jaws completely stopped working and for some reason, the free screen readers out there wouldn't work for me or I just simply did something wrong in trying to use them. I'm just tired of having a constant struggle with FS and it's either not working for prolonged periods of time or intermittently not working for up to 5 minutes or until I do a hard reboot. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel K. Beitz Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:08 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I'm no tech guy, but here are some of my observations and hard lessons I have learned. I hope this helps somebody. I hear Macs are very accessible, but I've never tried one. However, the ipad and iphone are absolutely fantastic. The only thing with a mac is that microsoft office is not accessible at all. Apple's word processor, pages, is accessible, and is apparently 99% word compatible. However, I might be afraid of some formatting compatibility issues between pages and word, although your docs should be pretty simple and maybe you won't have any. That is the issue I would want to get feedback on though. Email and web access should not be a problem. As far as third party programs which are accessible on a mac, I hear good things, but have no firsthand knowledge. If you don't mind me asking, What accessibility issues are you having with jaws? I know jaws has had issues with Westlaw, but all you have to do after you log in is shut jaws off and turn it back on, and Westlaw seems to work fine. I don't even use the text addition of Westlaw, as I want all the features the full website offers. I am a trial attorney, and I use jaws with few issues. The only thing with jaws is that, in my experience, there are some web pages it simply won't read completely. Window-eyes will read many pages that jaws will not read. Jaws has never caught up with GW micro on web access, but window-eyes doesn't have all the features that jaws has, and can be more cumbersome to use. Also, jaws works better in word and outlook. Also, window-eyes has some bugs right now with windows 7. I did learn recently that if you are using jaws 12 in word, you will notice that office 2010 is real responsive. But apparently, in making word 2010 work so well, they somehow broke word 2003, because jaws 12 is very unresponsive in word 2003. If you have issues reading emails in word 2010 or 2007, you can display the email in HTML format by using the following keystrokes: alt H, A, V. Office 2010 uses word, rather than the browser, to display emails, and they can be hard to read. But once you get use to the keystrokes to dump unreadable emails into an HTML window, you can pretty much read most emails. Hope this helps somebody out there. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William Burley, III Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 12:24 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? Hello all! Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and accessibility. If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to using this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many others using Windows products? Thanks for any information! William Burley, III (713) 614-3322 William.burley3 at gmail.com Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more details. Need better internet service for cheaper? Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up TODAY! Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 gmail.com From william.burley3 at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 22:02:56 2011 From: william.burley3 at gmail.com (William Burley, III) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 17:02:56 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: <4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> Hi Patti. I think my general accessibility issues is just wanting to find something that works consistently and I'm having more and more consistent trouble with Jaws. I'm not generally sure what to ask other than what the other gentleman asked as far as applications and the useability when working in an industry that is heavily Windows based. Thanks for any info. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:46 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Burley, III" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > Hello all! > > > > Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly > switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and > accessibility. > > > > If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to > using > this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? > What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many > others using Windows products? > > > > Thanks for any information! > > > > > > William Burley, III > > (713) 614-3322 > > William.burley3 at gmail.com > > > > Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! > > Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more > details. > > > > Need better internet service for cheaper? > > Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up > TODAY! > > > > Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 gmail.com From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Sun Jun 19 23:21:58 2011 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 19:21:58 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <4dfe71a3.13c7640a.684d.ffff939d@mx.google.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <001001cc2e9b$04cc7ae0$0e6570a0$@wiennergould.com> <4dfe71a3.13c7640a.684d.ffff939d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <001b01cc2ed7$afc8a3b0$0f59eb10$@wiennergould.com> This doesn't sound right. It sounds to me like there is something wrong with your PC. Jaws is pretty solid, although by no means perfect. You should not have so many crashes. If you can get cited help, you might try a system cleaner, such as registry mechanic. That has really cleaned up my PC. But first, you should go to MSconfig and uncheck anything in startup that you don't need. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William Burley, III Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 6:01 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? Hi Daniel. I think this e-mail helps. The accessibility issues that I'm having with Jaws is that it simply crashes too much for my taste and I've gone through almost a week of not being able to work because FS broke my license and nothing seemed to work to get it going again until today. I wasn't able to respond to a couple potential clients because my Jaws completely stopped working and for some reason, the free screen readers out there wouldn't work for me or I just simply did something wrong in trying to use them. I'm just tired of having a constant struggle with FS and it's either not working for prolonged periods of time or intermittently not working for up to 5 minutes or until I do a hard reboot. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel K. Beitz Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:08 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I'm no tech guy, but here are some of my observations and hard lessons I have learned. I hope this helps somebody. I hear Macs are very accessible, but I've never tried one. However, the ipad and iphone are absolutely fantastic. The only thing with a mac is that microsoft office is not accessible at all. Apple's word processor, pages, is accessible, and is apparently 99% word compatible. However, I might be afraid of some formatting compatibility issues between pages and word, although your docs should be pretty simple and maybe you won't have any. That is the issue I would want to get feedback on though. Email and web access should not be a problem. As far as third party programs which are accessible on a mac, I hear good things, but have no firsthand knowledge. If you don't mind me asking, What accessibility issues are you having with jaws? I know jaws has had issues with Westlaw, but all you have to do after you log in is shut jaws off and turn it back on, and Westlaw seems to work fine. I don't even use the text addition of Westlaw, as I want all the features the full website offers. I am a trial attorney, and I use jaws with few issues. The only thing with jaws is that, in my experience, there are some web pages it simply won't read completely. Window-eyes will read many pages that jaws will not read. Jaws has never caught up with GW micro on web access, but window-eyes doesn't have all the features that jaws has, and can be more cumbersome to use. Also, jaws works better in word and outlook. Also, window-eyes has some bugs right now with windows 7. I did learn recently that if you are using jaws 12 in word, you will notice that office 2010 is real responsive. But apparently, in making word 2010 work so well, they somehow broke word 2003, because jaws 12 is very unresponsive in word 2003. If you have issues reading emails in word 2010 or 2007, you can display the email in HTML format by using the following keystrokes: alt H, A, V. Office 2010 uses word, rather than the browser, to display emails, and they can be hard to read. But once you get use to the keystrokes to dump unreadable emails into an HTML window, you can pretty much read most emails. Hope this helps somebody out there. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William Burley, III Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 12:24 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? Hello all! Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and accessibility. If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to using this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many others using Windows products? Thanks for any information! William Burley, III (713) 614-3322 William.burley3 at gmail.com Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more details. Need better internet service for cheaper? Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up TODAY! Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Sun Jun 19 23:21:58 2011 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 19:21:58 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <008101cc2ec0$ad9d7dc0$6b01a8c0@server> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><004a01cc2e98$ae2b9420$6b01a8c0@server><001101cc2e9b$bdf79630$39e6c290$@wiennergould.com> <2F37C39C-5507-4822-95C7-37F2FC16CA74@sbcglobal.net> <008101cc2ec0$ad9d7dc0$6b01a8c0@server> Message-ID: <001a01cc2ed7$afaba5d0$0f02f170$@wiennergould.com> I know the answer to some of your questions. First, apple comes with a great email program and safari, a web browser. Both of these are accessible. Apple Pages is a part of the IWork suite of programs, which can be purchased for $79.00 with each mac. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Clark Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:37 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? Hello Mark and everyone, It will be very helpful for us to hear from blind users who have real world experience using the Mac. I have just spent a month upgrading to Windows 7 as a result of needing new server hardware, and we are still limping along with less functionality than before the upgrade. The cost to me in lost time, lost functionality, decreased efficiency of my employees and myself, and the cost of paying my employees salaries while they figure out how to do their work in this new and unfamiliar environment is totally unwarranted. As a result I have decided that we will be moving to a Mac or Linux solution, and I am hopeful that it can be the Mac using voiceover. Since one of my objectives is to eliminate Windows based programs from my office if possible, I am not interested in using bootcamp or fusion. If you could tell us about the programs you have used with voiceover, and which have worked well and which have not, it would be very valuable. As attorneys we more often than not work with M.S. Word files, though I do not think that this means we must use M.S. Word or office. Which Apple Mac word processors have you used with voiceover, and are they able to open, work with, and then save files in Word format? Next, I would be curious to know which Apple Mac email programs are provided with or can be purchased with the Mac, and how well they work with Voiceover. How easy is it to save attachments with these programs, and how easy is it to create folders and move messages into them from the inbox. Next, which web browsers are provided or available for the Mac using Voiceover, and what are their pros and cons when compared to IE or Firebox? Have you had any experience with backup software for the Mac, since this is very important for a law firm? For those of us who are blind, optical character recognition software has become an important part of our accessibility arsenal. I was pleased to learn this morning that ABBY Finereader has a version of their OCR software for the Mac called Abby Express. I use ABBYY frequently on our Windows machines, so this removes a big obstacle when considering whether or not to move to the Mac. Have you had any experience with this program or any other OCR software on the Mac? The only criticism that I saw about ABBY Express, was that it uses a twain interface, which is apparently not standard on the Mac. Other than that, users thought it did an excellent job on optical character recognition. Have you read or scanned books on the Mac, and if so, what scanner and software do you use? I do most of my reading with Kurzweil under Windows, because I like many of its features such as that both lines and pages can be of any length, and are not artificially imposed as is the case with most word processors such as M.S. Word. This is particularly important for reading books, where one must know their actual location in a book to create accurate citations. Additionally, I find Kurzweil's multilevel bookmark system to be very helpful when reading case documents and pleadings. I have been hoping that Kurzweil would make a Mac version available, but I have heard nothing to suggest that this might happen. I want to thank Mark and others for reading this lengthy email, and I would really appreciate hearing your thoughts. All the best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? >I use a mac for almost everything, for what it's worth. I offer tutoring >services (write of list) or will just answer questions if I can. I'm not a >lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I use a Mac and like it MUCH better >than the PC. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbc global.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com From dravant at ameritech.net Mon Jun 20 00:06:47 2011 From: dravant at ameritech.net (Denise Avant) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 19:06:47 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <008101cc2ec0$ad9d7dc0$6b01a8c0@server> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><004a01cc2e98$ae2b9420$6b01a8c0@server><001101cc2e9b$bdf79630$39e6c290$@wiennergould.com> <2F37C39C-5507-4822-95C7-37F2FC16CA74@sbcglobal.net> <008101cc2ec0$ad9d7dc0$6b01a8c0@server> Message-ID: <2DFA3681-3006-4FAA-A845-9E2FD7162D17@ameritech.net> hello all, as far as word processing, if you do not want to use pages, you can use text edit which comes as part of the apple mac system. you can save files in word compatible format. i do not know as of yet whether how much formatting you can do. i know you all may not want to hear this, but there are a couple of mac lists, one of which is maccessiability. it is a high traffic list. you may find more lawyers and law students, students in particular who have used the mac to type briefs, memos, and complaints on a mac. On Jun 19, 2011, at 3:37 PM, Dennis Clark wrote: > Hello Mark and everyone, > > It will be very helpful for us to hear from blind users who have real world experience using the Mac. I have just spent a month upgrading to Windows 7 as a result of needing new server hardware, and we are still limping along with less functionality than before the upgrade. The cost to me in lost time, lost functionality, decreased efficiency of my employees and myself, and the cost of paying my employees salaries while they figure out how to do their work in this new and unfamiliar environment is totally unwarranted. As a result I have decided that we will be moving to a Mac or Linux solution, and I am hopeful that it can be the Mac using voiceover. Since one of my objectives is to eliminate Windows based programs from my office if possible, I am not interested in using bootcamp or fusion. If you could tell us about the programs you have used with voiceover, and which have worked well and which have not, it would be very valuable. > > As attorneys we more often than not work with M.S. Word files, though I do not think that this means we must use M.S. Word or office. Which Apple Mac word processors have you used with voiceover, and are they able to open, work with, and then save files in Word format? > > Next, I would be curious to know which Apple Mac email programs are provided with or can be purchased with the Mac, and how well they work with Voiceover. How easy is it to save attachments with these programs, and how easy is it to create folders and move messages into them from the inbox. > > Next, which web browsers are provided or available for the Mac using Voiceover, and what are their pros and cons when compared to IE or Firebox? > > Have you had any experience with backup software for the Mac, since this is very important for a law firm? > > For those of us who are blind, optical character recognition software has become an important part of our accessibility arsenal. I was pleased to learn this morning that ABBY Finereader has a version of their OCR software for the Mac called Abby Express. I use ABBYY frequently on our Windows machines, so this removes a big obstacle when considering whether or not to move to the Mac. Have you had any experience with this program or any other OCR software on the Mac? The only criticism that I saw about ABBY Express, was that it uses a twain interface, which is apparently not standard on the Mac. Other than that, users thought it did an excellent job on optical character recognition. > > Have you read or scanned books on the Mac, and if so, what scanner and software do you use? I do most of my reading with Kurzweil under Windows, because I like many of its features such as that both lines and pages can be of any length, and are not artificially imposed as is the case with most word processors such as M.S. Word. This is particularly important for reading books, where one must know their actual location in a book to create accurate citations. Additionally, I find Kurzweil's multilevel bookmark system to be very helpful when reading case documents and pleadings. I have been hoping that Kurzweil would make a Mac version available, but I have heard nothing to suggest that this might happen. > > I want to thank Mark and others for reading this lengthy email, and I would really appreciate hearing your thoughts. > > All the best, > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:14 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > >> I use a mac for almost everything, for what it's worth. I offer tutoring services (write of list) or will just answer questions if I can. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I use a Mac and like it MUCH better than the PC. >> >> Mark BurningHawk >> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >> Namaste! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net From william.burley3 at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 03:27:09 2011 From: william.burley3 at gmail.com (William Burley) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 22:27:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <001b01cc2ed7$afc8a3b0$0f59eb10$@wiennergould.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <001001cc2e9b$04cc7ae0$0e6570a0$@wiennergould.com> <4dfe71a3.13c7640a.684d.ffff939d@mx.google.com> <001b01cc2ed7$afc8a3b0$0f59eb10$@wiennergould.com> Message-ID: Done that to no avail. I still would like to know pros and cons of switching. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 19, 2011, at 6:21 PM, "Daniel K. Beitz" wrote: > This doesn't sound right. It sounds to me like there is something wrong > with your PC. Jaws is pretty solid, although by no means perfect. You > should not have so many crashes. If you can get cited help, you might try a > system cleaner, such as registry mechanic. That has really cleaned up my > PC. But first, you should go to MSconfig and uncheck anything in startup > that you don't need. > > ------------------------------------------- > Daniel K. Beitz > Wienner & Gould, P.C. > 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 > Rochester, MI 48307 > Phone: (248) 841-9405 > Fax: (248) 652-2729 > dbeitz at wiennergould.com > This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages > attached > to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If > you are > not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this > email > to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, > copying, > or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or > attached to > this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in > error, > please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by > telephoning > us at (248) 841-9400. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of William Burley, III > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 6:01 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > Hi Daniel. > > I think this e-mail helps. The accessibility issues that I'm having with > Jaws is that it simply crashes too much for my taste and I've gone through > almost a week of not being able to work because FS broke my license and > nothing seemed to work to get it going again until today. I wasn't able to > respond to a couple potential clients because my Jaws completely stopped > working and for some reason, the free screen readers out there wouldn't work > for me or I just simply did something wrong in trying to use them. I'm just > tired of having a constant struggle with FS and it's either not working for > prolonged periods of time or intermittently not working for up to 5 minutes > or until I do a hard reboot. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Daniel K. Beitz > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:08 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I'm no tech guy, but here are some of my observations and hard lessons I > have learned. I hope this helps somebody. > > I hear Macs are very accessible, but I've never tried one. However, the > ipad and iphone are absolutely fantastic. The only thing with a mac is that > microsoft office is not accessible at all. Apple's word processor, pages, > is accessible, and is apparently 99% word compatible. However, I might be > afraid of some formatting compatibility issues between pages and word, > although your docs should be pretty simple and maybe you won't have any. > That is the issue I would want to get feedback on though. Email and web > access should not be a problem. As far as third party programs which are > accessible on a mac, I hear good things, but have no firsthand knowledge. > > If you don't mind me asking, What accessibility issues are you having with > jaws? I know jaws has had issues with Westlaw, but all you have to do after > you log in is shut jaws off and turn it back on, and Westlaw seems to work > fine. I don't even use the text addition of Westlaw, as I want all the > features the full website offers. I am a trial attorney, and I use jaws > with few issues. The only thing with jaws is that, in my experience, there > are some web pages it simply won't read completely. Window-eyes will read > many pages that jaws will not read. Jaws has never caught up with GW micro > on web access, but window-eyes doesn't have all the features that jaws has, > and can be more cumbersome to use. Also, jaws works better in word and > outlook. Also, window-eyes has some bugs right now with windows 7. > > I did learn recently that if you are using jaws 12 in word, you will notice > that office 2010 is real responsive. But apparently, in making word 2010 > work so well, they somehow broke word 2003, because jaws 12 is very > unresponsive in word 2003. > > If you have issues reading emails in word 2010 or 2007, you can display the > email in HTML format by using the following keystrokes: alt H, A, V. > Office 2010 uses word, rather than the browser, to display emails, and they > can be hard to read. But once you get use to the keystrokes to dump > unreadable emails into an HTML window, you can pretty much read most emails. > > Hope this helps somebody out there. > > ------------------------------------------- > Daniel K. Beitz > Wienner & Gould, P.C. > 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 > Rochester, MI 48307 > Phone: (248) 841-9405 > Fax: (248) 652-2729 > dbeitz at wiennergould.com > This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages > attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual > responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any > of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly > prohibited. Should you receive this communication in error, please notify > us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us > at (248) 841-9400. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of William Burley, III > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 12:24 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > Hello all! > > > > Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly > switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and > accessibility. > > > > If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to using > this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? > What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many > others using Windows products? > > > > Thanks for any information! > > > > > > William Burley, III > > (713) 614-3322 > > William.burley3 at gmail.com > > > > Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! > > Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more > details. > > > > Need better internet service for cheaper? > > Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up TODAY! > > > > Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo > uld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 > gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo > uld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40gmail.com From RJaquiss at nfb.org Mon Jun 20 12:41:01 2011 From: RJaquiss at nfb.org (Jaquiss, Robert) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 05:41:01 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <008101cc2ec0$ad9d7dc0$6b01a8c0@server> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><004a01cc2e98$ae2b9420$6b01a8c0@server><001101cc2e9b$bdf79630$39e6c290$@wiennergould.com> <2F37C39C-5507-4822-95C7-37F2FC16CA74@sbcglobal.net> <008101cc2ec0$ad9d7dc0$6b01a8c0@server> Message-ID: <15131457E4DA6B4EBD8776E13F2B3E1002D448D9F2@VA3DIAXVS751.RED001.local> Hello: For those of you using Braille displays, the Mac handles a wide variety of USB and Bluetooth capable displays. Regards, Robert Robert Jaquiss National Federation of the Blind 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Phone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2422 From amatney at hf-law.com Mon Jun 20 13:12:28 2011 From: amatney at hf-law.com (Angela Matney) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 09:12:28 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9E93687A9231064FAD3BBDD80BE19E2B0634C1BB@hfexch1.hirschlerfleischer.com> Hello Michael, I believe there is. You can find out by going to www.lsac.org. Best, Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael McKay Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 8:51 PM To: NFB Blind Law Discussion Group Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: Greetings! all: My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later then the end of March 2012. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Respectfully! -- *Michael G. McKay * *70 Grove Crescent,* *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* *Canada. P6B 5V4* E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40hf-l aw.com Hirschler Fleischer, A Professional Corporation Confidentiality Note: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by returning it to the sender and delete this copy from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to Treasury Department Circular 230, tax advice contained in this communication and any attachments are not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code, nor may any such tax advice be used to promote, market or recommend to any person any transaction or matter that is the subject of this communication and any attachments. From pattichang at att.net Mon Jun 20 13:39:02 2011 From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 08:39:02 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91> <4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I will have my mmac at convention. Do you want to try it? Patti S. Gregory-Chang NFB, Scholarship Comm. Chair Sent from my iPhone On Jun 19, 2011, at 5:02 PM, "William Burley, III" wrote: > Hi Patti. I think my general accessibility issues is just wanting to find > something that works consistently and I'm having more and more consistent > trouble with Jaws. I'm not generally sure what to ask other than what the > other gentleman asked as far as applications and the useability when working > in an industry that is heavily Windows based. > > Thanks for any info. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access > issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Burley, III" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > >> Hello all! >> >> >> >> Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly >> switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and >> accessibility. >> >> >> >> If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to >> using >> this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? >> What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many >> others using Windows products? >> >> >> >> Thanks for any information! >> >> >> >> >> >> William Burley, III >> >> (713) 614-3322 >> >> William.burley3 at gmail.com >> >> >> >> Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! >> >> Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more >> details. >> >> >> >> Need better internet service for cheaper? >> >> Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up >> TODAY! >> >> >> >> Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 > gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net From rthomas at emplmntattorney.com Mon Jun 20 16:56:09 2011 From: rthomas at emplmntattorney.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 09:56:09 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says Test Discriminates -NPR In-Reply-To: <91AAF0CBEF90432EA524A8EA85C170D2@elizabethrene> References: <91AAF0CBEF90432EA524A8EA85C170D2@elizabethrene> Message-ID: <0C9D547721174DB5920A37E30F2FA5A0@RThomas> >From what little I have read about this case, I do have concerns: 1. Did the applicant ever ask for any form of accommodation, and if so, was it offered, offered in part, or denied. 2. Do we know if the applicant was otherwise qualified for admission, or put another way, had he been sighted would the admission decisions have been any different? "bad cases make bad law"; is this such a case? Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 www.emplmntattorney.com Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Rene Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 8:23 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says Test Discriminates -NPR I too am appalled that aspiring law students are hindered in their efforts to gain law school admission by the structure of the LSAT and by the conditions on which the test is given and interpreted. But something about the NPR article bothers me, and it jumps up to bite me right in the first paragraph. Are blind college grads really getting low LSAT scores because they are invited to draw diagrams for themselves in order to ease their approach to complex questions? Or is that just something an uninitiated reporter gleaned from a complex interview in hopes of reaching the general public? Only well into the article did I read that law schools are still warned that an LSAT test taken with reasonable accommodations has questionable validity, and that top-tier schools decline an option to disregard the LSAT altogether. Granted, one would think that the validity of standardized academic aptitude test scores earned under the tightly controlled conditions on which specific accommodations have been granted over the past 50 years or so should have been proven by now. If not, why not? And if there are pictures or diagrams in the test questions themselves that can't be replicated tactilely for blind students, why is that so? But if the whole thrust of a blind person's argument for higher education or employment is that he or she can find alternate means to solve a sighted person's problems, why should that blind test-taker balk at being invited to draw a picture to help him or her think more clearly? That diagram's only for ordinary people. If one doesn't think visually, noone can make him do that for a test. And what about this concern about top-tier law schools? Didn't Jacobus Tenbroek graduate from UC Berkeley's Boalt Hall? Or was it Stanford? Didn't the NFB's own Peggy Pinder get her JD from Harvard or Yale? What did they do with the LSAT? I took the LSAT in early 1975. I had to wait three years from leaving college for permission to take it in Braille, with an amanuensis to write the answers. The dreaded warning went with my scores. But I got accepted by three of the six law schools I applied to, and waiting listed by the other three. Had my undergraduate grades been better, those other schools might have accepted me, too. After law school, I got to do the work I wanted. And I had to deal with visual evidence, and to make visual evidence understandable to juries and to appellate judges every day. And as every lawyer knows, this had to be done in an adversary setting. Yes, I agree that the LSAT, the GRE, and other such tests have to be made more accessible so as not to discriminate unlawfully. But maybe they're a wake-up call to those who might be confronted for the first time with what they'll encounter on the job. And maybe that second- or third-tier law school, with a fat scholarship for those who excel, might not look so bad. One great thing about there being more and more of us blind lawyers and other professionals is that no one needs to pull blind test-taking and lawyering skills from the air. They've already been learned, and they can be shared. Elizabeth _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 17:18:43 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:18:43 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says TestDiscriminates -NPR References: <91AAF0CBEF90432EA524A8EA85C170D2@elizabethrene> <0C9D547721174DB5920A37E30F2FA5A0@RThomas> Message-ID: How did Dr. Merror become an aturniey? If he can do it, and he's blind, then why are these other folks whining discrimination? Stephanies case is the exception. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says TestDiscriminates -NPR > >From what little I have read about this case, I do have concerns: > > 1. Did the applicant ever ask for any form of accommodation, and if so, > was > it offered, offered in part, or denied. > > 2. Do we know if the applicant was otherwise qualified for admission, or > put > another way, had he been sighted would the admission decisions have been > any > different? > > "bad cases make bad law"; is this such a case? > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > > Newport Beach, California 92660 > > T: (949) 752-0101 > > F: (949) 257-4756 > > M: (949) 466-7238 > > www.emplmntattorney.com > > Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Elizabeth Rene > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 8:23 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says Test Discriminates > -NPR > > I too am appalled that aspiring law students are hindered in their efforts > to gain law school admission by the structure of the LSAT and by the > conditions on which the test is given and interpreted. > > But something about the NPR article bothers me, and it jumps up to bite me > right in the first paragraph. > > Are blind college grads really getting low LSAT scores because they are > invited to draw diagrams for themselves in order to ease their approach to > complex questions? Or is that just something an uninitiated reporter > gleaned from a complex interview in hopes of reaching the general public? > > Only well into the article did I read that law schools are still warned > that > an LSAT test taken with reasonable accommodations has questionable > validity, > and that top-tier schools decline an option to disregard the LSAT > altogether. > > Granted, one would think that the validity of standardized academic > aptitude > test scores earned under the tightly controlled conditions on which > specific > accommodations have been granted over the past 50 years or so should have > been proven by now. If not, why not? And if there are pictures or > diagrams > in the test questions themselves that can't be replicated tactilely for > blind > students, why is that so? > > But if the whole thrust of a blind person's argument for higher education > or > employment is that he or she can find alternate means to solve a sighted > person's problems, why should that blind test-taker balk at being invited > to > draw a picture to help him or her think more clearly? > > That diagram's only for ordinary people. > > If one doesn't think visually, noone can make him do that for a test. > > And what about this concern about top-tier law schools? Didn't Jacobus > Tenbroek graduate from UC Berkeley's Boalt Hall? Or was it Stanford? > Didn't the NFB's own Peggy Pinder get her JD from Harvard or Yale? What > did > they do with the LSAT? > > I took the LSAT in early 1975. I had to wait three years from leaving > college for permission to take it in Braille, with an amanuensis to write > the answers. The dreaded warning went with my scores. But I got accepted > by three of the six law schools I applied to, and waiting listed by the > other three. Had my undergraduate grades been better, those other schools > might have accepted me, too. > > After law school, I got to do the work I wanted. And I had to deal with > visual evidence, and to make visual evidence understandable to juries and > to > appellate judges every day. And as every lawyer knows, this had to be > done > in an adversary setting. > > Yes, I agree that the LSAT, the GRE, and other such tests have to be made > more accessible so as not to discriminate unlawfully. > > But maybe they're a wake-up call to those who might be confronted for the > first time with what they'll encounter on the job. And maybe that second- > or third-tier law school, with a fat scholarship for those who excel, > might > not look so bad. > > One great thing about there being more and more of us blind lawyers and > other professionals is that no one needs to pull blind test-taking and > lawyering skills from the air. They've already been learned, and they can > be shared. > > Elizabeth > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi > rm.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From lists at zufelt.ca Mon Jun 20 17:40:59 2011 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:40:59 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says TestDiscriminates -NPR In-Reply-To: References: <91AAF0CBEF90432EA524A8EA85C170D2@elizabethrene> <0C9D547721174DB5920A37E30F2FA5A0@RThomas> Message-ID: I would like to point out a flaw in your logic. The fact that a particular blind person, or subset of blind persons, have been able to enter law school does not mean that the entrance policies, or tests, are equitable. For the policies and tests to be equitable any person should have the same opportunities be they blind or not. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-06-20, at 1:18 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > How did Dr. Merror become an aturniey? If he can do it, and he's blind, then why are these other folks whining discrimination? Stephanies case is the exception. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 12:56 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says TestDiscriminates -NPR > > >> >From what little I have read about this case, I do have concerns: >> >> 1. Did the applicant ever ask for any form of accommodation, and if so, was >> it offered, offered in part, or denied. >> >> 2. Do we know if the applicant was otherwise qualified for admission, or put >> another way, had he been sighted would the admission decisions have been any >> different? >> >> "bad cases make bad law"; is this such a case? >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> www.emplmntattorney.com >> >> Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Elizabeth Rene >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 8:23 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says Test Discriminates >> -NPR >> >> I too am appalled that aspiring law students are hindered in their efforts >> to gain law school admission by the structure of the LSAT and by the >> conditions on which the test is given and interpreted. >> >> But something about the NPR article bothers me, and it jumps up to bite me >> right in the first paragraph. >> >> Are blind college grads really getting low LSAT scores because they are >> invited to draw diagrams for themselves in order to ease their approach to >> complex questions? Or is that just something an uninitiated reporter >> gleaned from a complex interview in hopes of reaching the general public? >> >> Only well into the article did I read that law schools are still warned that >> an LSAT test taken with reasonable accommodations has questionable validity, >> and that top-tier schools decline an option to disregard the LSAT >> altogether. >> >> Granted, one would think that the validity of standardized academic aptitude >> test scores earned under the tightly controlled conditions on which specific >> accommodations have been granted over the past 50 years or so should have >> been proven by now. If not, why not? And if there are pictures or diagrams >> in the test questions themselves that can't be replicated tactilely for >> blind >> students, why is that so? >> >> But if the whole thrust of a blind person's argument for higher education or >> employment is that he or she can find alternate means to solve a sighted >> person's problems, why should that blind test-taker balk at being invited to >> draw a picture to help him or her think more clearly? >> >> That diagram's only for ordinary people. >> >> If one doesn't think visually, noone can make him do that for a test. >> >> And what about this concern about top-tier law schools? Didn't Jacobus >> Tenbroek graduate from UC Berkeley's Boalt Hall? Or was it Stanford? >> Didn't the NFB's own Peggy Pinder get her JD from Harvard or Yale? What did >> they do with the LSAT? >> >> I took the LSAT in early 1975. I had to wait three years from leaving >> college for permission to take it in Braille, with an amanuensis to write >> the answers. The dreaded warning went with my scores. But I got accepted >> by three of the six law schools I applied to, and waiting listed by the >> other three. Had my undergraduate grades been better, those other schools >> might have accepted me, too. >> >> After law school, I got to do the work I wanted. And I had to deal with >> visual evidence, and to make visual evidence understandable to juries and to >> appellate judges every day. And as every lawyer knows, this had to be done >> in an adversary setting. >> >> Yes, I agree that the LSAT, the GRE, and other such tests have to be made >> more accessible so as not to discriminate unlawfully. >> >> But maybe they're a wake-up call to those who might be confronted for the >> first time with what they'll encounter on the job. And maybe that second- >> or third-tier law school, with a fat scholarship for those who excel, might >> not look so bad. >> >> One great thing about there being more and more of us blind lawyers and >> other professionals is that no one needs to pull blind test-taking and >> lawyering skills from the air. They've already been learned, and they can >> be shared. >> >> Elizabeth >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi >> rm.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From agtolentino at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 18:07:27 2011 From: agtolentino at gmail.com (Aser Tolentino) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:07:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says TestDiscriminates -NPR In-Reply-To: References: <91AAF0CBEF90432EA524A8EA85C170D2@elizabethrene> <0C9D547721174DB5920A37E30F2FA5A0@RThomas> Message-ID: I think the issue RJ had (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that the plaintiff claims no blind person could "pass" this test, when clearly they have. I assume the article refers to the logic games; and while LSAT prep often encourages use of diagrams, that is by no means the only way to work the problem. That's not to say that LSAC is blameless in its position on accommodations... On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 10:40 AM, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > I would like to point out a flaw in your logic. > > The fact that a particular blind person, or subset of blind persons, have > been able to enter law school does not mean that the entrance policies, or > tests, are equitable. > > For the policies and tests to be equitable any person should have the same > opportunities be they blind or not. > > > Everett Zufelt > http://zufelt.ca > > Follow me on Twitter > http://twitter.com/ezufelt > > View my LinkedIn Profile > http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt > > > > On 2011-06-20, at 1:18 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > > > How did Dr. Merror become an aturniey? If he can do it, and he's blind, > then why are these other folks whining discrimination? Stephanies case is > the exception. RJ > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." < > rthomas at emplmntattorney.com> > > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 12:56 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says > TestDiscriminates -NPR > > > > > >> >From what little I have read about this case, I do have concerns: > >> > >> 1. Did the applicant ever ask for any form of accommodation, and if so, > was > >> it offered, offered in part, or denied. > >> > >> 2. Do we know if the applicant was otherwise qualified for admission, or > put > >> another way, had he been sighted would the admission decisions have been > any > >> different? > >> > >> "bad cases make bad law"; is this such a case? > >> > >> > >> > >> Respectfully, > >> > >> > >> > >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > >> > >> Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > >> > >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > >> > >> Newport Beach, California 92660 > >> > >> T: (949) 752-0101 > >> > >> F: (949) 257-4756 > >> > >> M: (949) 466-7238 > >> > >> www.emplmntattorney.com > >> > >> Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > >> Behalf Of Elizabeth Rene > >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 8:23 PM > >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> Subject: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says Test > Discriminates > >> -NPR > >> > >> I too am appalled that aspiring law students are hindered in their > efforts > >> to gain law school admission by the structure of the LSAT and by the > >> conditions on which the test is given and interpreted. > >> > >> But something about the NPR article bothers me, and it jumps up to bite > me > >> right in the first paragraph. > >> > >> Are blind college grads really getting low LSAT scores because they are > >> invited to draw diagrams for themselves in order to ease their approach > to > >> complex questions? Or is that just something an uninitiated reporter > >> gleaned from a complex interview in hopes of reaching the general > public? > >> > >> Only well into the article did I read that law schools are still warned > that > >> an LSAT test taken with reasonable accommodations has questionable > validity, > >> and that top-tier schools decline an option to disregard the LSAT > >> altogether. > >> > >> Granted, one would think that the validity of standardized academic > aptitude > >> test scores earned under the tightly controlled conditions on which > specific > >> accommodations have been granted over the past 50 years or so should > have > >> been proven by now. If not, why not? And if there are pictures or > diagrams > >> in the test questions themselves that can't be replicated tactilely for > >> blind > >> students, why is that so? > >> > >> But if the whole thrust of a blind person's argument for higher > education or > >> employment is that he or she can find alternate means to solve a sighted > >> person's problems, why should that blind test-taker balk at being > invited to > >> draw a picture to help him or her think more clearly? > >> > >> That diagram's only for ordinary people. > >> > >> If one doesn't think visually, noone can make him do that for a test. > >> > >> And what about this concern about top-tier law schools? Didn't Jacobus > >> Tenbroek graduate from UC Berkeley's Boalt Hall? Or was it Stanford? > >> Didn't the NFB's own Peggy Pinder get her JD from Harvard or Yale? What > did > >> they do with the LSAT? > >> > >> I took the LSAT in early 1975. I had to wait three years from leaving > >> college for permission to take it in Braille, with an amanuensis to > write > >> the answers. The dreaded warning went with my scores. But I got > accepted > >> by three of the six law schools I applied to, and waiting listed by the > >> other three. Had my undergraduate grades been better, those other > schools > >> might have accepted me, too. > >> > >> After law school, I got to do the work I wanted. And I had to deal with > >> visual evidence, and to make visual evidence understandable to juries > and to > >> appellate judges every day. And as every lawyer knows, this had to be > done > >> in an adversary setting. > >> > >> Yes, I agree that the LSAT, the GRE, and other such tests have to be > made > >> more accessible so as not to discriminate unlawfully. > >> > >> But maybe they're a wake-up call to those who might be confronted for > the > >> first time with what they'll encounter on the job. And maybe that > second- > >> or third-tier law school, with a fat scholarship for those who excel, > might > >> not look so bad. > >> > >> One great thing about there being more and more of us blind lawyers and > >> other professionals is that no one needs to pull blind test-taking and > >> lawyering skills from the air. They've already been learned, and they > can > >> be shared. > >> > >> Elizabeth > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi > >> rm.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com > -- Respectfully, Aser Tolentino, Esq. (916) 572-2737 agtolentino at gmail.com From vaughan.roles at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 08:40:15 2011 From: vaughan.roles at gmail.com (Vaughan Roles) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:40:15 +1000 Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts Message-ID: Hi list, Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email letting me know what technology you use. -- Vaughan Roles Ph: 0425211038 From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 14:10:42 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:10:42 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question Message-ID: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn> How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ From sbg at sbgaal.com Tue Jun 21 14:17:20 2011 From: sbg at sbgaal.com (Shannon Geihsler) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:17:20 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with jaws and a Nokia smart phone with talks. I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out there that might be helpful. I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. Sincerely, Shannon Geihsler Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, TX 79401 Phone: 763-3999 Fax: 749-3752 This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Vaughan Roles Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM To: blindlaw Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts Hi list, Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email letting me know what technology you use. -- Vaughan Roles Ph: 0425211038 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 14:27:08 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:27:08 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts References: Message-ID: <8D3A38838E2F4FD79620FF01E8C07210@hometwxakonvzn> I'd be interested how you prepare briefs in word using Jaws Have you argued before the Supreme court of Texas? And What law school did you attend? I'm thinking about going in to law. I'm 32 years old. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Geihsler" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts >I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with jaws >and > a Nokia smart phone with talks. > > I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out there > that > might be helpful. > > I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. > Sincerely, > > Shannon Geihsler > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > Lubbock, TX 79401 > Phone: 763-3999 > Fax: 749-3752 > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or > attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express > permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Vaughan Roles > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM > To: blindlaw > Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > Hi list, > > Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly > appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email > letting me know what technology you use. > > -- > Vaughan Roles > Ph: 0425211038 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From sbg at sbgaal.com Tue Jun 21 14:40:17 2011 From: sbg at sbgaal.com (Shannon Geihsler) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:40:17 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts In-Reply-To: <8D3A38838E2F4FD79620FF01E8C07210@hometwxakonvzn> References: <8D3A38838E2F4FD79620FF01E8C07210@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <3453D98D256247DFA560156E796BCA88@HPLaptop> i did not lose my viasion until 4 years after law school so I can't speak to the challenges in law school for a blind person. I have appeared in front of the 5th circuit twice, the court of appeals in Amarillo. I have not appeared before the Texas supreme court, but the highest court of criminal appeals in Texas is the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals not the Texas Supreme Court. I have not appeared in front of the TCCA either. I do trial work for misdemeanors and felonies. I went to Duke School of Law in Durham North Carolina and now practice in my home city of Lubbock, Texas. Jaws and Word are easy to use. As far as brief writing I do not like Word as much as I liked Wordperfect, but Jaws and wordperfect do not work well together. Wordperfect is much better for doing tables of contents and tables of authorities. Sincerely, Shannon Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, TX 79401 Phone: 763-3999 Fax: 749-3752 This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:27 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts I'd be interested how you prepare briefs in word using Jaws Have you argued before the Supreme court of Texas? And What law school did you attend? I'm thinking about going in to law. I'm 32 years old. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Geihsler" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts >I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with jaws >and > a Nokia smart phone with talks. > > I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out there > that > might be helpful. > > I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. > Sincerely, > > Shannon Geihsler > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > Lubbock, TX 79401 > Phone: 763-3999 > Fax: 749-3752 > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or > attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express > permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Vaughan Roles > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM > To: blindlaw > Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > Hi list, > > Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly > appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email > letting me know what technology you use. > > -- > Vaughan Roles > Ph: 0425211038 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefu r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com From agtolentino at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 16:05:38 2011 From: agtolentino at gmail.com (Aser Tolentino) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:05:38 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question In-Reply-To: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn> References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <2E70BCFA-3CE8-427B-913D-E8BA99A5028F@gmail.com> I'm pretty sure you must be admitted to a state bar, the DC bar or a bar of one of the territories. Once this is done you fill out an application (pay a fee) to practice before any given district. Membership in the SCOTUS bar is largely honorary I believe. Respectfully, Aser Tolentino, Esq. (916) 572-2737 agtolentino at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone On Jun 21, 2011, at 7:10, "RJ Sandefur" wrote: > How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com From dravant at ameritech.net Tue Jun 21 16:12:21 2011 From: dravant at ameritech.net (denise avant) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:12:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts In-Reply-To: <8D3A38838E2F4FD79620FF01E8C07210@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <311212.19185.qm@web81904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello, I am from Illinois. I am currently assigned to the Legal Resources Division of the public defenders office. I work in both the trial and appellate court. I use lots of technology in performing my job. When i work on briefs, and have arguments before the appellate court and illinois supreme court, I print out my argument and other key points in Braille. I use jaws to research and write petitions, responses and briefs. I also use openbook to scan in some transcripts, though i also receive some of the transcripts from the court reporters office here in town. i use my Braillenote to load on cases in case i need to refer to them while sitting at counsel table or if i am on the go. even if i have an evidentiary hearing in the circuit court, i may have my questions or an outline of the direct and/or cross in hardcopy Braille. I also use a slate and stylus to take a few notes while sitting and listening to questions and answers and arguments of counsel. of course, i do have a reader assigned to me to read handwritten police reports and any other documents that cannot be scanned.   you might want to think of investing in the openbook peral reading system. the openbook is a scanning reading system, and with the addition of the pearl camera is extremely portable, as it can be plugged into a laptop (usb) and you can scan documents for reading wherever you are. if you use Braille, you may want to invest in the Braillenote or one of the other portable notetakers. --- On Tue, 6/21/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: From: RJ Sandefur Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 9:27 AM I'd be interested how you prepare briefs in word using Jaws Have you argued before the Supreme court of Texas? And What law school did you attend? I'm thinking about going in to law. I'm 32 years old. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Geihsler" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with jaws and > a Nokia smart phone with talks. > > I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out there that > might be helpful. > > I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. > Sincerely, > > Shannon Geihsler > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > Lubbock, TX 79401 > Phone: 763-3999 > Fax: 749-3752 > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or > attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express > permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Vaughan Roles > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM > To: blindlaw > Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > Hi list, > > Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly > appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email > letting me know what technology you use. > > -- Vaughan Roles > Ph: 0425211038 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net From agtolentino at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 16:30:49 2011 From: agtolentino at gmail.com (Aser Tolentino) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:30:49 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts In-Reply-To: <311212.19185.qm@web81904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8D3A38838E2F4FD79620FF01E8C07210@hometwxakonvzn> <311212.19185.qm@web81904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I haven't been on an arraignment calendar (as a DA intern) since before I graduated from law school. The office I worked for used a central file management system from which I pulled all documents attributed to my cases. Since things not generated by the office were often just scanned PDFs, I had to run these through Kurzweil 1000. I loaded everything on a BrailleNote and also created a master file into which I put notes on all the cases and added dispositions during proceedings. I also copied in cases to cite for oral argument. Mine was an incomplete solution, since it required sighted interpretation of handwritten docket notes from previous appearances and entry of the day's notes on those same docket sheets after the fact for continuity. I also carried a KNFB Reader but never needed it on the occasions when it was in my possession. Denise, how would you rate the Pearl’s accuracy? And does it require OpenBook? On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 9:12 AM, denise avant wrote: > Hello, > I am from Illinois. I am currently assigned to the Legal Resources Division > of the public defenders office. I work in both the trial and appellate > court. > I use lots of technology in performing my job. When i work on briefs, and > have arguments before the appellate court and illinois supreme court, I > print out my argument and other key points in Braille. I use jaws to > research and write petitions, responses and briefs. I also use openbook to > scan in some transcripts, though i also receive some of the transcripts from > the court reporters office here in town. > i use my Braillenote to load on cases in case i need to refer to them while > sitting at counsel table or if i am on the go. > even if i have an evidentiary hearing in the circuit court, i may have my > questions or an outline of the direct and/or cross in hardcopy Braille. > I also use a slate and stylus to take a few notes while sitting and > listening to questions and answers and arguments of counsel. > of course, i do have a reader assigned to me to read handwritten police > reports and any other documents that cannot be scanned. > > you might want to think of investing in the openbook peral reading system. > the openbook is a scanning reading system, and with the addition of the > pearl camera is extremely portable, as it can be plugged into a laptop (usb) > and you can scan documents for reading wherever you are. if you use Braille, > you may want to invest in the Braillenote or one of the other portable > notetakers. > > > --- On Tue, 6/21/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: > > > From: RJ Sandefur > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 9:27 AM > > > I'd be interested how you prepare briefs in word using Jaws Have you argued > before the Supreme court of Texas? And What law school did you attend? I'm > thinking about going in to law. I'm 32 years old. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Geihsler" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:17 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > > > I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with jaws > and > > a Nokia smart phone with talks. > > > > I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out there > that > > might be helpful. > > > > I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. > > Sincerely, > > > > Shannon Geihsler > > > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > > Lubbock, TX 79401 > > Phone: 763-3999 > > Fax: 749-3752 > > > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or > > attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > > review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express > > permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > > Behalf Of Vaughan Roles > > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM > > To: blindlaw > > Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > > > Hi list, > > > > Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly > > appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email > > letting me know what technology you use. > > > > -- Vaughan Roles > > Ph: 0425211038 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com > -- Respectfully, Aser Tolentino, Esq. (916) 572-2737 agtolentino at gmail.com From law at cordovafirm.com Tue Jun 21 16:43:34 2011 From: law at cordovafirm.com (Marina A. Cordova, Esq.) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:43:34 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question In-Reply-To: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn> References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <002b01cc3032$5db2aab0$19180010$@com> Yes, you have to become licensed for the federal bar, which involves paying a fee to your federal district court. Look up your local federal district court on google, and the website should have info on which office to contact and the fees to become licensed by the federal bar in your district. For the district of NM it was $150.00, and fairly quick to get my certificate. Sincerely, Marina A. Cordova Attorney at Law 551 W. Cordova Road, # 234 Santa Fe, NM 87505 Office (505) 467-8395 Fax (505) 467-8746 law at cordovafirm.com Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has.  - Margaret Mead CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email message (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Section 2510-2521, and is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:11 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/law%40cordovafirm. com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Jun 21 16:57:39 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:57:39 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Access Board to Issue Proposed Guidelines for Accessible Public Rights-of-Way Message-ID: FYI, blind lawyers! From: United States Access Board [mailto:access-board at service.govdelivery.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:35 AM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: Access Board to Issue Proposed Guidelines for Accessible Public Rights-of-Way Access Board to Issue Proposed Guidelines for Accessible Public Rights-of-Way The Board plans to release for public comment proposed guidelines for public rights-of-way later this summer. These guidelines will address access to sidewalks, street crossings, and other components of pedestrian networks for people with disabilities, including those with vision impairments. Through this rulemaking, the Board seeks to establish design criteria for pedestrian access routes, curb ramps and blended transitions, pedestrian signals, on-street parking, street furniture, and other elements that take into account constraints unique to public streets and sidewalks, including space limitations and terrain. The guidelines are currently under review by the Office of Budget and Management. If cleared on schedule, the Board anticipates publishing its proposed rule in late July or August. At that time, the Board plans to release the guidelines at a public event and press conference at the Board’s conference space. In addition, the Board will conduct a webinar to review the rule and will hold public hearings in Washington, D.C. and Dallas. The guidelines will be available for comment for several months and will be posted to regulations.gov for review and comment. Further details will be provided as they become available. Background information on this rulemaking is posted on the Board's website. ________________________________ SUBSCRIBER SERVICES: Manage Preferences | Unsubscribe | Help For more information about the content of this email, contact the Access Board. [cid:image001.jpg at 01CC2FF9.A77EA9C0] ________________________________ This email was sent to noel.nightingale at ed.gov using GovDelivery, on behalf of: United States Access Board · 1331 F St NW, Suite 1000 · Washington DC 20004 · (800) 872-2253 (v) · (800) 993-2822 (TTY) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 348 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 17:28:35 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 13:28:35 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn> <002b01cc3032$5db2aab0$19180010$@com> Message-ID: Do they Test you though? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marina A. Cordova, Esq." To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question Yes, you have to become licensed for the federal bar, which involves paying a fee to your federal district court. Look up your local federal district court on google, and the website should have info on which office to contact and the fees to become licensed by the federal bar in your district. For the district of NM it was $150.00, and fairly quick to get my certificate. Sincerely, Marina A. Cordova Attorney at Law 551 W. Cordova Road, # 234 Santa Fe, NM 87505 Office (505) 467-8395 Fax (505) 467-8746 law at cordovafirm.com Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email message (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Section 2510-2521, and is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:11 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/law%40cordovafirm. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From sbg at sbgaal.com Tue Jun 21 17:34:09 2011 From: sbg at sbgaal.com (Shannon Geihsler) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 12:34:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question In-Reply-To: References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn><002b01cc3032$5db2aab0$19180010$@com> Message-ID: <2937111F7AEB401A86BCD1E9E002319E@HPLaptop> Not that I am aware of. Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, TX 79401 Phone: 763-3999 Fax: 749-3752 This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:29 PM To: law at cordovafirm.com; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question Do they Test you though? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marina A. Cordova, Esq." To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question Yes, you have to become licensed for the federal bar, which involves paying a fee to your federal district court. Look up your local federal district court on google, and the website should have info on which office to contact and the fees to become licensed by the federal bar in your district. For the district of NM it was $150.00, and fairly quick to get my certificate. Sincerely, Marina A. Cordova Attorney at Law 551 W. Cordova Road, # 234 Santa Fe, NM 87505 Office (505) 467-8395 Fax (505) 467-8746 law at cordovafirm.com Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email message (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Section 2510-2521, and is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:11 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/law%40cordovafirm. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefu r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jun 21 17:40:02 2011 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:40:02 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question In-Reply-To: <2937111F7AEB401A86BCD1E9E002319E@HPLaptop> References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn><002b01cc3032$5db2aab0$19180010$@com> <2937111F7AEB401A86BCD1E9E002319E@HPLaptop> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EDDD@EVS02.central.pima.gov> It's been several years since I was admitted, but all that was done here (Arizona) was an application to federal district court (with application fee) and swearing-in ceremony at the federal courthouse, and a certificate of admission. An application fee was also submitted by my then-employer for my admission to the 9th circuit - no swearing-in ceremony with that, just a certificate mailed to me. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Geihsler Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:34 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question Not that I am aware of. Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, TX 79401 Phone: 763-3999 Fax: 749-3752 This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:29 PM To: law at cordovafirm.com; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question Do they Test you though? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marina A. Cordova, Esq." To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question Yes, you have to become licensed for the federal bar, which involves paying a fee to your federal district court. Look up your local federal district court on google, and the website should have info on which office to contact and the fees to become licensed by the federal bar in your district. For the district of NM it was $150.00, and fairly quick to get my certificate. Sincerely, Marina A. Cordova Attorney at Law 551 W. Cordova Road, # 234 Santa Fe, NM 87505 Office (505) 467-8395 Fax (505) 467-8746 law at cordovafirm.com Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email message (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Section 2510-2521, and is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:11 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/law%40cordovaf irm. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksan defu r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.c om _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Tue Jun 21 17:42:41 2011 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:42:41 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn><002b01cc3032$5db2aab0$19180010$@com> Message-ID: <4A3847EC012747A4B494F62C98661B01@labarre> No, however, you need to be in good standing with the highest court of at least one state. Usually, you need to be in good standing in the state where you are attempting to become a member of that federal district. Otherwise, you need to apply for pro hac vice admission in other federal districts. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: ; "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question > Do they Test you though? RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marina A. Cordova, Esq." > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:43 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question > > > Yes, you have to become licensed for the federal bar, which involves > paying > a fee to your federal district court. Look up your local federal district > court on google, and the website should have info on which office to > contact > and the fees to become licensed by the federal bar in your district. For > the district of NM it was $150.00, and fairly quick to get my certificate. > > Sincerely, > Marina A. Cordova > Attorney at Law > 551 W. Cordova Road, # 234 > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > Office (505) 467-8395 > Fax (505) 467-8746 > law at cordovafirm.com > > Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can > change > the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email message (including attachments) is > covered > by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Section 2510-2521, > and > is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may > contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, > use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is > prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the > sender > by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are > the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through > this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:11 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question > > How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or > do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, > what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/law%40cordovafirm. > com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From rthomas at emplmntattorney.com Tue Jun 21 17:45:53 2011 From: rthomas at emplmntattorney.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:45:53 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question In-Reply-To: References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn><002b01cc3032$5db2aab0$19180010$@com> Message-ID: <959163596F304F3DA9E0628568F1BA22@RThomas> In the federal courts in which I am admitted, there was no test. Usually, once you are admitted to the State Bar you automatically qualify for admission into each federal court. Another attorney can move your admission before a judge. In some courts you send in a form together with a certificate of good standing from your state bar. You have to pay a fee of course. You get admitted to practice Court by Court. For example, if you want to be admitted to all federal district courts in California, that requires four separate admissions. Admission to the ninth Circuit is a separate admission. Don't confuse admission to practice in a federal court with the Federal Bar. The Federal Bar is like the A.B.A; you don't have to belong to these organizations to be admitted to federal courts. p.s. If you want to go to boring luncheons, listen to a lot of self congratulatory speeches, and listen to a lot of pompous old men make fools of themselves, by all means join the Federal Bar in your local community. Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 www.emplmntattorney.com Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:29 AM To: law at cordovafirm.com; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question Do they Test you though? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marina A. Cordova, Esq." To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question Yes, you have to become licensed for the federal bar, which involves paying a fee to your federal district court. Look up your local federal district court on google, and the website should have info on which office to contact and the fees to become licensed by the federal bar in your district. For the district of NM it was $150.00, and fairly quick to get my certificate. Sincerely, Marina A. Cordova Attorney at Law 551 W. Cordova Road, # 234 Santa Fe, NM 87505 Office (505) 467-8395 Fax (505) 467-8746 law at cordovafirm.com Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email message (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Section 2510-2521, and is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:11 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/law%40cordovafirm. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefu r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 18:01:42 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:01:42 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn><002b01cc3032$5db2aab0$19180010$@com> <4A3847EC012747A4B494F62C98661B01@labarre> Message-ID: <3BD0702B5ABA418AB3A7DA9305933759@hometwxakonvzn> What is pro hac vice admissio? RJn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" ; Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question No, however, you need to be in good standing with the highest court of at least one state. Usually, you need to be in good standing in the state where you are attempting to become a member of that federal district. Otherwise, you need to apply for pro hac vice admission in other federal districts. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: ; "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question > Do they Test you though? RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marina A. Cordova, Esq." > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:43 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question > > > Yes, you have to become licensed for the federal bar, which involves > paying > a fee to your federal district court. Look up your local federal district > court on google, and the website should have info on which office to > contact > and the fees to become licensed by the federal bar in your district. For > the district of NM it was $150.00, and fairly quick to get my certificate. > > Sincerely, > Marina A. Cordova > Attorney at Law > 551 W. Cordova Road, # 234 > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > Office (505) 467-8395 > Fax (505) 467-8746 > law at cordovafirm.com > > Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can > change > the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email message (including attachments) is > covered > by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Section 2510-2521, > and > is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may > contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, > use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is > prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the > sender > by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are > the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through > this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:11 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question > > How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or > do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, > what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/law%40cordovafirm. > com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Tue Jun 21 18:12:57 2011 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:12:57 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts In-Reply-To: <8D3A38838E2F4FD79620FF01E8C07210@hometwxakonvzn> References: <8D3A38838E2F4FD79620FF01E8C07210@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F84F5@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> RJ, I am guessing you are beginning your adventure to become a lawyer, and are asking for information related to practicing with blindness. If I may, let me address your questions from the prospective of a blind law student, and a newly admitted student attorney (Texas has an associate membership in its bar for law students who are authorized to practice as the attorney of record under the direct supervision of a fully licensed attorney.) First, do you have an undergrad degree from a four year university? This may be a requirement in your state if you are not in Texas, and I do know it is a requirement for Texas to enter law school. If memory serves me correctly, I believe it is a requirement for all ABA accredited law schools. Secondly, you will need to register with the Law School Admissions Counsel (www.lsac.org). This will start the process of taking the Law School Admissions Test (LSAT), and will also begin your process for applying to law school. The service will collect all applications to your schools, collect the letters of reference, and academic transcripts. They will also begin to document your requests for accommodations in testing which will be very important when you apply for same in law school, when you take the Multistate Professional ethics test, called the MPRE, and when in time you sit for the bar. Okay, moving on, now your in law school, learning all the wonderful theory and taking your finals and scoring well. If your school has a clinical practice program, as St. Mary's does, you can be selected and admitted as a student attorney. Not all law students either are selected or apply for this program, but I have found it to be a wonderful way to gain much needed experience before you are let loose upon the world. So, what do I use... I would say that Braille will be your friend if you have the skills. Why? Because I found out the hard way. You will not have time with Law professors breathing down your neck to scroll through spoken text looking for holdings of cases or if it mattered in the opinion one end of a telephone wire was higher than another in a case of ejectment. The lectures are rapid fire, and you must be as good as the sighted class mates. If speech is your thing, then go for it, but I never thought I'd use Braille in my life before law school. Now I am doing all I can to build up my skills. Next Westlaw and Lexis nexus are both accessible. Most of your research will be done on these two services. When you argue your moot court case (something you will do your first year), I found it to be a help to summarize your full brief (written using jaws), in braille to bring with you for arguments. I also use open book, but only to scan in notes and handouts given by professors who forget to give an electronic copy. Most professors are very willing to give handouts in an accessible form, but you have to build up a relationship with them. I have found that if you show your committed to the practice of law by reading your cases, considering the cases, always being ready for class, they will assist you. Third for class Notes, taking them on a laptop using jaws, or if you have a Braille display, I found that to be a help because you can turn off speech and still keep track. It was much quieter when I started using Braille as the primary form of access then when I was using speech in an ear bud. Much easier to follow as I wasn't distracted by the speech covering up what the professor was saying. Fourth, the reading of casebooks is the only hiccup. Most of the publishers such as "Westlaw" publish their books in PDF format. While JAWS can read this form, you will find that perhaps Microsoft Word is a better format to go with. Braille Textbooks are not readily available. I have a person at the law school who converts each chapter into a separate Microsoft Word file and I read my assignments in this way. Again, relationships and self-advocacy is key. Ask first, then argue why it is required. Okay, so now you're a Student Attorney, ready to get out there and zealously advocate against the injustices your clients have suffered at the hands of social norms that care not for their well-being. Again I use braille in court. As an example, I went to court last week to prove up a divorce. (This is when you state to the court the reasons why the divorce should be granted, and prey (you will do loads of preying both in and out of the courtroom), the divorce is granted. I printed my questions out in Braille, and also used index cards with braille labels so I could give what copy of what document to which party. Copies of the decree, the affidavit of indigency, and so on. Tell us more about yourself, and perhaps I can help through my own experience. It is limited, but I have had wonderful support and guidance from the legal community, and want to pay it forward. Best of luck to you in beginning your law school process. Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX  78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760  fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:27 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts I'd be interested how you prepare briefs in word using Jaws Have you argued before the Supreme court of Texas? And What law school did you attend? I'm thinking about going in to law. I'm 32 years old. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Geihsler" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts >I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with >jaws and a Nokia smart phone with talks. > > I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out > there that might be helpful. > > I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. > Sincerely, > > Shannon Geihsler > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > Lubbock, TX 79401 > Phone: 763-3999 > Fax: 749-3752 > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged > and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended > recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or > forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you > are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Vaughan Roles > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM > To: blindlaw > Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > Hi list, > > Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly > appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email > letting me know what technology you use. > > -- > Vaughan Roles > Ph: 0425211038 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks > andefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jun 21 18:18:24 2011 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:18:24 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts In-Reply-To: <311212.19185.qm@web81904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8D3A38838E2F4FD79620FF01E8C07210@hometwxakonvzn> <311212.19185.qm@web81904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EDDF@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Denise - how do you handle the time issue on oral arguments since (I assume) you cannot use the clock on the podium? I have not had an oral argument since losing my vision (our appellate court here in Southern Arizona doesn't grant many in criminal / juvenile delinquencies), so that has been in the back of my mind as a potential problem. So far, we have come up with a co-worker going with me to somehow signal me as to the times left. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of denise avant Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:12 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts Hello, I am from Illinois. I am currently assigned to the Legal Resources Division of the public defenders office. I work in both the trial and appellate court. I use lots of technology in performing my job. When i work on briefs, and have arguments before the appellate court and illinois supreme court, I print out my argument and other key points in Braille. I use jaws to research and write petitions, responses and briefs. I also use openbook to scan in some transcripts, though i also receive some of the transcripts from the court reporters office here in town. i use my Braillenote to load on cases in case i need to refer to them while sitting at counsel table or if i am on the go. even if i have an evidentiary hearing in the circuit court, i may have my questions or an outline of the direct and/or cross in hardcopy Braille. I also use a slate and stylus to take a few notes while sitting and listening to questions and answers and arguments of counsel. of course, i do have a reader assigned to me to read handwritten police reports and any other documents that cannot be scanned.   you might want to think of investing in the openbook peral reading system. the openbook is a scanning reading system, and with the addition of the pearl camera is extremely portable, as it can be plugged into a laptop (usb) and you can scan documents for reading wherever you are. if you use Braille, you may want to invest in the Braillenote or one of the other portable notetakers. --- On Tue, 6/21/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: From: RJ Sandefur Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 9:27 AM I'd be interested how you prepare briefs in word using Jaws Have you argued before the Supreme court of Texas? And What law school did you attend? I'm thinking about going in to law. I'm 32 years old. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Geihsler" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with jaws and > a Nokia smart phone with talks. > > I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out there that > might be helpful. > > I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. > Sincerely, > > Shannon Geihsler > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > Lubbock, TX 79401 > Phone: 763-3999 > Fax: 749-3752 > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or > attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express > permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Vaughan Roles > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM > To: blindlaw > Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > Hi list, > > Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly > appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email > letting me know what technology you use. > > -- Vaughan Roles > Ph: 0425211038 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From dravant at ameritech.net Tue Jun 21 18:48:38 2011 From: dravant at ameritech.net (denise avant) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EDDF@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <824353.86980.qm@web81901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> hello, let the clerk of the court know what you need. either one of two things can happen. one of the justices will say, counsel you have a minute left [don't let this bother you] or the court as the illinois supreme court did ring a small bell at the one minute mark. usually the state courts don't get too upset if you run over a few seconds. and this is true for all attorneys. i have never argued in the federal courts, but again, i assume that the judges there will come up with an audible signal to let you know when you're getting to the end of your time. --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Susan Kelly wrote: From: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 1:18 PM Denise - how do you handle the time issue on oral arguments since (I assume) you cannot use the clock on the podium?  I have not had an oral argument since losing my vision (our appellate court here in Southern Arizona doesn't grant many in criminal / juvenile delinquencies), so that has been in the back of my mind as a potential problem.  So far, we have come up with a co-worker going with me to somehow signal me as to the times left. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of denise avant Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:12 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts Hello, I am from Illinois. I am currently assigned to the Legal Resources Division of the public defenders office. I work in both the trial and appellate court. I use lots of technology in performing my job. When i work on briefs, and have arguments before the appellate court and illinois supreme court, I print out my argument and other key points in Braille. I use jaws to research and write petitions, responses and briefs. I also use openbook to scan in some transcripts, though i also receive some of the transcripts from the court reporters office here in town. i use my Braillenote to load on cases in case i need to refer to them while sitting at counsel table or if i am on the go. even if i have an evidentiary hearing in the circuit court, i may have my questions or an outline of the direct and/or cross in hardcopy Braille. I also use a slate and stylus to take a few notes while sitting and listening to questions and answers and arguments of counsel. of course, i do have a reader assigned to me to read handwritten police reports and any other documents that cannot be scanned.   you might want to think of investing in the openbook peral reading system. the openbook is a scanning reading system, and with the addition of the pearl camera is extremely portable, as it can be plugged into a laptop (usb) and you can scan documents for reading wherever you are. if you use Braille, you may want to invest in the Braillenote or one of the other portable notetakers. --- On Tue, 6/21/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: From: RJ Sandefur Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 9:27 AM I'd be interested how you prepare briefs in word using Jaws Have you argued before the Supreme court of Texas? And What law school did you attend? I'm thinking about going in to law. I'm 32 years old. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Geihsler" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with jaws and > a Nokia smart phone with talks. > > I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out there that > might be helpful. > > I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. > Sincerely, > > Shannon Geihsler > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > Lubbock, TX 79401 > Phone: 763-3999 > Fax: 749-3752 > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or > attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express > permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Vaughan Roles > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM > To: blindlaw > Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > Hi list, > > Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly > appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email > letting me know what technology you use. > > -- Vaughan Roles > Ph: 0425211038 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net From david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us Tue Jun 21 19:05:55 2011 From: david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us (Hyde, David W. (ESC)) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:05:55 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EDDF@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <8D3A38838E2F4FD79620FF01E8C07210@hometwxakonvzn> <311212.19185.qm@web81904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EDDF@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <8FE3DA4A52652B4D8EC80883B3DC1233864A636667@tiger> Now, I'm not a lawyer, but when speaking, I use a braille watch. If I'm wearing a jacket, I can simply reach up open and close it quietly, and go on. I'm sure there are much more complex ways of doing it, but this works for me. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 1:18 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts Denise - how do you handle the time issue on oral arguments since (I assume) you cannot use the clock on the podium? I have not had an oral argument since losing my vision (our appellate court here in Southern Arizona doesn't grant many in criminal / juvenile delinquencies), so that has been in the back of my mind as a potential problem. So far, we have come up with a co-worker going with me to somehow signal me as to the times left. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of denise avant Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:12 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts Hello, I am from Illinois. I am currently assigned to the Legal Resources Division of the public defenders office. I work in both the trial and appellate court. I use lots of technology in performing my job. When i work on briefs, and have arguments before the appellate court and illinois supreme court, I print out my argument and other key points in Braille. I use jaws to research and write petitions, responses and briefs. I also use openbook to scan in some transcripts, though i also receive some of the transcripts from the court reporters office here in town. i use my Braillenote to load on cases in case i need to refer to them while sitting at counsel table or if i am on the go. even if i have an evidentiary hearing in the circuit court, i may have my questions or an outline of the direct and/or cross in hardcopy Braille. I also use a slate and stylus to take a few notes while sitting and listening to questions and answers and arguments of counsel. of course, i do have a reader assigned to me to read handwritten police reports and any other documents that cannot be scanned.   you might want to think of investing in the openbook peral reading system. the openbook is a scanning reading system, and with the addition of the pearl camera is extremely portable, as it can be plugged into a laptop (usb) and you can scan documents for reading wherever you are. if you use Braille, you may want to invest in the Braillenote or one of the other portable notetakers. --- On Tue, 6/21/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: From: RJ Sandefur Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 9:27 AM I'd be interested how you prepare briefs in word using Jaws Have you argued before the Supreme court of Texas? And What law school did you attend? I'm thinking about going in to law. I'm 32 years old. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Geihsler" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with > jaws and a Nokia smart phone with talks. > > I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out > there that might be helpful. > > I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. > Sincerely, > > Shannon Geihsler > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > Lubbock, TX 79401 > Phone: 763-3999 > Fax: 749-3752 > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged > and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended > recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or > forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you > are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Vaughan Roles > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM > To: blindlaw > Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > Hi list, > > Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly > appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email > letting me know what technology you use. > > -- Vaughan Roles > Ph: 0425211038 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks > andefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/david.hyde%40wcbvi.k12.wi.us From dravant at ameritech.net Tue Jun 21 20:03:32 2011 From: dravant at ameritech.net (denise avant) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 13:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13575.77148.qm@web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello all, Beginning with Openbook 9, Freedom Scientific added the Pearl camera which made a more portable scanning and reading solution. i cannot say that the recognition is any better than openbook 8. but i can say that depending on your processor, the pearl is very fast at starting to read. when you scan a document, it seems to start reading within a second or two of the scan. for those of you who will be coming to cnvention, i would urge you to bring some of your most commonly scanned material, and see if fs will let you try out the pearl using your documents. but in any case, go over and see it to see if its something you might want to buy or upgrade to.     --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Aser Tolentino wrote: From: Aser Tolentino Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 11:30 AM I haven't been on an arraignment calendar (as a DA intern) since before I graduated from law school. The office I worked for used a central file management system from which I pulled all documents attributed to my cases. Since things not generated by the office were often just scanned PDFs, I had to run these through Kurzweil 1000. I loaded everything on a BrailleNote and also created a master file into which I put notes on all the cases and added dispositions during proceedings. I also copied in cases to cite for oral argument. Mine was an incomplete solution, since it required sighted interpretation of handwritten docket notes from previous appearances and entry of the day's notes on those same docket sheets after the fact for continuity. I also carried a KNFB Reader but never needed it on the occasions when it was in my possession. Denise, how would you rate the Pearl’s accuracy? And does it require OpenBook? On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 9:12 AM, denise avant wrote: > Hello, > I am from Illinois. I am currently assigned to the Legal Resources Division > of the public defenders office. I work in both the trial and appellate > court. > I use lots of technology in performing my job. When i work on briefs, and > have arguments before the appellate court and illinois supreme court, I > print out my argument and other key points in Braille. I use jaws to > research and write petitions, responses and briefs. I also use openbook to > scan in some transcripts, though i also receive some of the transcripts from > the court reporters office here in town. > i use my Braillenote to load on cases in case i need to refer to them while > sitting at counsel table or if i am on the go. > even if i have an evidentiary hearing in the circuit court, i may have my > questions or an outline of the direct and/or cross in hardcopy Braille. > I also use a slate and stylus to take a few notes while sitting and > listening to questions and answers and arguments of counsel. > of course, i do have a reader assigned to me to read handwritten police > reports and any other documents that cannot be scanned. > > you might want to think of investing in the openbook peral reading system. > the openbook is a scanning reading system, and with the addition of the > pearl camera is extremely portable, as it can be plugged into a laptop (usb) > and you can scan documents for reading wherever you are. if you use Braille, > you may want to invest in the Braillenote or one of the other portable > notetakers. > > > --- On Tue, 6/21/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: > > > From: RJ Sandefur > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 9:27 AM > > > I'd be interested how you prepare briefs in word using Jaws Have you argued > before the Supreme court of Texas? And What law school did you attend? I'm > thinking about going in to law. I'm 32 years old. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Geihsler" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:17 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > > > I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with jaws > and > > a Nokia smart phone with talks. > > > > I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out there > that > > might be helpful. > > > > I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. > > Sincerely, > > > > Shannon Geihsler > > > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > > Lubbock, TX 79401 > > Phone: 763-3999 > > Fax: 749-3752 > > > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or > > attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > > review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express > > permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > > Behalf Of Vaughan Roles > > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM > > To: blindlaw > > Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > > > Hi list, > > > > Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly > > appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email > > letting me know what technology you use. > > > > -- Vaughan Roles > > Ph: 0425211038 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com > -- Respectfully, Aser Tolentino, Esq. (916) 572-2737 agtolentino at gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Tue Jun 21 20:18:22 2011 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:18:22 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: <2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn> References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn> <2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> Hi all, I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some clarity of the argument is in order. The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school. This is not true as I and many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT. Was it easy, nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a separate issue from the exam itself. I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should not be able to bring their concerns before the court. I do have some questions. First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that they were "top tier". Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? Was it close, within a point or two? How did the plaintiff do on the questions that are not the puzzles? Much of the exam is perfectly understandable by a blind person. Perhaps there is another reason why they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed to enquiry? Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my school and others. I was accepted into my school of choice on a provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full admittance. Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, and even sat in on a class or two and met with students, professors, and other staff so that when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was remembered. However, given all this it was very hard for me and countless others to get into law school. The selection committees look at the whole person so in the words of one professor, "There has to be something that says to us, you belong in the profession of law." What did the rest of this person's package look like? So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to enter. I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is for the court to rule upon. I am saying that placing all of the blame at the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. With respect, Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX  78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760  fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the > LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. > Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having > accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate material on it. > Beth > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" > > wrote: > >> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> Hi, Michael. >>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>> into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>> Good luck >>> Beth Taurasi >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Greetings! all: >>>> >>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>> does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>> >>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance. >>>> >>>> Respectfully! >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>> * >>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >> oose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks > andefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 20:25:35 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 16:25:35 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn><2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn> <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: What about Stephanie's Case? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dittman, Robert" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: Hi all, I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some clarity of the argument is in order. The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school. This is not true as I and many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT. Was it easy, nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a separate issue from the exam itself. I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should not be able to bring their concerns before the court. I do have some questions. First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that they were "top tier". Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? Was it close, within a point or two? How did the plaintiff do on the questions that are not the puzzles? Much of the exam is perfectly understandable by a blind person. Perhaps there is another reason why they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed to enquiry? Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my school and others. I was accepted into my school of choice on a provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full admittance. Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, and even sat in on a class or two and met with students, professors, and other staff so that when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was remembered. However, given all this it was very hard for me and countless others to get into law school. The selection committees look at the whole person so in the words of one professor, "There has to be something that says to us, you belong in the profession of law." What did the rest of this person's package look like? So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to enter. I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is for the court to rule upon. I am saying that placing all of the blame at the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. With respect, Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the > LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. > Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having > accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate > material on it. > Beth > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" > > wrote: > >> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> Hi, Michael. >>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>> into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>> Good luck >>> Beth Taurasi >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Greetings! all: >>>> >>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>> does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>> >>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance. >>>> >>>> Respectfully! >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>> * >>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >> oose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks > andefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Tue Jun 21 20:38:33 2011 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:38:33 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn><2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn> <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA79E@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> What are the facts of that case? Keep in mind each person's admission into law school is a very individualized process so I have been told. So just because one blind person did enter law school, and one did not does not mean that the contributing factors are the same. How was the person's academic performance in their undergraduate education? What did they put in their personal statement and declaration to study law? How many law schools did they apply to, and were they ever offered a provisional appointment to any of these schools? Did they ever make it known to any of these schools they wish to attend? Just more questions. In any case, the exam is but one measuring factor. Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX  78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760  fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:26 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: What about Stephanie's Case? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dittman, Robert" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: Hi all, I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some clarity of the argument is in order. The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school. This is not true as I and many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT. Was it easy, nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a separate issue from the exam itself. I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should not be able to bring their concerns before the court. I do have some questions. First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that they were "top tier". Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? Was it close, within a point or two? How did the plaintiff do on the questions that are not the puzzles? Much of the exam is perfectly understandable by a blind person. Perhaps there is another reason why they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed to enquiry? Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my school and others. I was accepted into my school of choice on a provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full admittance. Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, and even sat in on a class or two and met with students, professors, and other staff so that when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was remembered. However, given all this it was very hard for me and countless others to get into law school. The selection committees look at the whole person so in the words of one professor, "There has to be something that says to us, you belong in the profession of law." What did the rest of this person's package look like? So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to enter. I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is for the court to rule upon. I am saying that placing all of the blame at the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. With respect, Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the > LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. > Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having > accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate > material on it. > Beth > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" > > wrote: > >> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> Hi, Michael. >>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>> into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>> Good luck >>> Beth Taurasi >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Greetings! all: >>>> >>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>> does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>> >>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance. >>>> >>>> Respectfully! >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>> * >>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >> oose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks > andefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu From dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 21 23:50:09 2011 From: dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net (dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:50:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn><2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn><687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: What are the general facts of Stephanie's case? ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > What about Stephanie's Case? RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dittman, Robert" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > > Hi all, > > I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some > clarity of the argument is in order. > > The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the > LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school. This is not true as I and > many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT. Was it easy, > nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a > separate issue from the exam itself. > > I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the > accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. > > But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should not > be able to bring their concerns before the court. > > I do have some questions. > > First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that they > were "top tier". Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? > Was it close, within a point or two? How did the plaintiff do on the > questions that are not the puzzles? Much of the exam is perfectly > understandable by a blind person. Perhaps there is another reason why > they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed > to enquiry? > > Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my school > and others. I was accepted into my school of choice on a provisional > program and upon completion of that program gained full admittance. Did > the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under such a program? > Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they had the desire to > apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, and even sat in on a > class or two and met with students, professors, and other staff so that > when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was remembered. However, > given all this it was very hard for me and countless others to get into > law school. The selection committees look at the whole person so in the > words of one professor, "There has to be something that says to us, you > belong in the profession of law." What did the rest of this person's > package look like? > > > So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely > prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to > enter. I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is > for the court to rule upon. I am saying that placing all of the blame at > the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. > > With respect, > > > Robert D. Dittman > Student Attorney > St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) > 2507 N.W. 36th Street > San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 > Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 > Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail > and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these > United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider > becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame > discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, > is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take > them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT > will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the >> LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. >> Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having >> accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate >> material on it. >> Beth >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" >> >> wrote: >> >>> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>>> Hi, Michael. >>>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>>> into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>>> Good luck >>>> Beth Taurasi >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Greetings! all: >>>>> >>>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>>> does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>>> >>>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully! >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>>> * >>>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >>> oose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks >> andefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 00:34:01 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:34:01 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn><2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn><687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: Please read the opinion attached ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > What are the general facts of Stephanie's case? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:25 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> What about Stephanie's Case? RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dittman, Robert" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some >> clarity of the argument is in order. >> >> The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the >> LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school. This is not true as I and >> many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT. Was it easy, >> nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a >> separate issue from the exam itself. >> >> I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the >> accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. >> >> But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should >> not be able to bring their concerns before the court. >> >> I do have some questions. >> >> First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that they >> were "top tier". Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? >> Was it close, within a point or two? How did the plaintiff do on the >> questions that are not the puzzles? Much of the exam is perfectly >> understandable by a blind person. Perhaps there is another reason why >> they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed >> to enquiry? >> >> Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my >> school and others. I was accepted into my school of choice on a >> provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full >> admittance. Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under >> such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they >> had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, >> and even sat in on a class or two and met with students, professors, and >> other staff so that when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was >> remembered. However, given all this it was very hard for me and >> countless others to get into law school. The selection committees look at >> the whole person so in the words of one professor, "There has to be >> something that says to us, you belong in the profession of law." What >> did the rest of this person's package look like? >> >> >> So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely >> prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to >> enter. I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is >> for the court to rule upon. I am saying that placing all of the blame at >> the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. >> >> With respect, >> >> >> Robert D. Dittman >> Student Attorney >> St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) >> 2507 N.W. 36th Street >> San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 >> Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 >> Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any >> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may >> contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized >> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not >> the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail >> and destroy all copies of the original message. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these >> United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider >> becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame >> discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, >> is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take >> them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT >> will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the >>> LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. >>> Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having >>> accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate >>> material on it. >>> Beth >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi, Michael. >>>>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>>>> into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>>>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>>>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>>>> Good luck >>>>> Beth Taurasi >>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Greetings! all: >>>>>> >>>>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>>>> does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>>> >>>>>> Respectfully! >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>>>> * >>>>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>>>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >>>> oose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks >>> andefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 10-15286[1].pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 105272 bytes Desc: not available URL: From b75205 at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 05:02:03 2011 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 00:02:03 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] lack of accessible student loan info In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3ED21@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <913C3CC1-3E9C-4350-9D85-F64B95839514@sbcglobal.net> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3ED1D@EVS02.central.pima.gov> <7B6877AB-C131-4A41-8745-AD7DC92BC339@sbcglobal.net> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3ED21@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: The move to the cloud computing has left accessibility in the lurch. Everything is now custom made and of course if content can be proven to meet any specification of Section 508, why should they do anything more? On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Susan Kelly wrote: > Mine were consolidated with Sallie Mae - but I think the same parent > company has pretty much all of the stuff for the federal student loan > programs. Evil, to say the least. Wishing you luck in getting them to > behave like actual humans! > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk > Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 8:31 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] lack of accessible student loan info > > Gee. One wonders if you called the same (Stafford loans, I believe). > Would anyone know how I'd go about wagging the dog on this one? > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 > pima.gov > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Jun 22 06:01:27 2011 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 23:01:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question In-Reply-To: <2E70BCFA-3CE8-427B-913D-E8BA99A5028F@gmail.com> References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn> <2E70BCFA-3CE8-427B-913D-E8BA99A5028F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <37389EBDE25B431B82187D5EFC08CE07@Blind> The admission to practice in federal district court is determined by local rules of admittance for the district court. As a preliminary you do have to be a member of a state or DC. Some district courts require admission into the state in which the district court is located, i.e., California. Then there are districts like Northern Florida which in addition to admission in any state or DC only requires passing an online exam which any law grad could sleep walk through. Immigration court and other federal administrative/quasi judicial bodies generally do not require admission into the state in which the court you wish to appear in is located, i.e., any state or DC gets you into immigration court. Note however Bankruptcy court differs but the tax court is similar to immigration court. Basically you have to inquire court by court to ensure you get the straight dope. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aser Tolentino Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:06 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question I'm pretty sure you must be admitted to a state bar, the DC bar or a bar of one of the territories. Once this is done you fill out an application (pay a fee) to practice before any given district. Membership in the SCOTUS bar is largely honorary I believe. Respectfully, Aser Tolentino, Esq. (916) 572-2737 agtolentino at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone On Jun 21, 2011, at 7:10, "RJ Sandefur" wrote: > How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Jun 22 06:05:01 2011 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 23:05:01 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question In-Reply-To: <3BD0702B5ABA418AB3A7DA9305933759@hometwxakonvzn> References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn><002b01cc3032$5db2aab0$19180010$@com><4A3847EC012747A4B494F62C98661B01@labarre> <3BD0702B5ABA418AB3A7DA9305933759@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Pro Hac Vice is admission on motion to the court. But it has it's limitations such as you have to have as lead counsel a locally admitted attorney, further, as pro hac vice counsel you cannot be a resident of the state in which you seek admission on motion and there is usually a limit of appearances per a set period of time. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 11:02 AM To: Scott C. LaBarre; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question What is pro hac vice admissio? RJn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" ; Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question No, however, you need to be in good standing with the highest court of at least one state. Usually, you need to be in good standing in the state where you are attempting to become a member of that federal district. Otherwise, you need to apply for pro hac vice admission in other federal districts. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: ; "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question > Do they Test you though? RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marina A. Cordova, Esq." > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:43 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question > > > Yes, you have to become licensed for the federal bar, which involves > paying > a fee to your federal district court. Look up your local federal district > court on google, and the website should have info on which office to > contact > and the fees to become licensed by the federal bar in your district. For > the district of NM it was $150.00, and fairly quick to get my certificate. > > Sincerely, > Marina A. Cordova > Attorney at Law > 551 W. Cordova Road, # 234 > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > Office (505) 467-8395 > Fax (505) 467-8746 > law at cordovafirm.com > > Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can > change > the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email message (including attachments) is > covered > by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Section 2510-2521, > and > is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may > contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, > use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is > prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the > sender > by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are > the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through > this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:11 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question > > How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or > do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, > what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/law%40cordovafirm. > com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefu r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarre law.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefu r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 19:35:29 2011 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 20:35:29 +0100 Subject: [blindlaw] How to Get US Law Books, Please Help Message-ID: Dear all, I wonder if anyone could give me some advice on how to get law books from the US in electronic format? I really need to get a couple of leading textbooks, in constitutional, administrative and insurance law. They're big books so I don't want to scan them. Many thanks, Ger From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 19:35:29 2011 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 20:35:29 +0100 Subject: [blindlaw] How to Get US Law Books, Please Help Message-ID: Dear all, I wonder if anyone could give me some advice on how to get law books from the US in electronic format? I really need to get a couple of leading textbooks, in constitutional, administrative and insurance law. They're big books so I don't want to scan them. Many thanks, Ger From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 19:35:29 2011 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 20:35:29 +0100 Subject: [blindlaw] How to Get US Law Books, Please Help Message-ID: Dear all, I wonder if anyone could give me some advice on how to get law books from the US in electronic format? I really need to get a couple of leading textbooks, in constitutional, administrative and insurance law. They're big books so I don't want to scan them. Many thanks, Ger From law at cordovafirm.com Wed Jun 22 20:17:43 2011 From: law at cordovafirm.com (Marina A. Cordova, Esq.) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 14:17:43 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] How to Get US Law Books, Please Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <009b01cc3119$720ba150$5622e3f0$@com> Look at the westlaw site online. Do you mean US as in federal law? Any topics, such as con law can be looked at by topic. Or you can get general federal litigation such as Moore's. You can browse the website or call Eve Black at their sales department. Sales Rep Eve Black was really helpful and made it easy in ensuring that every book I purchased was emailed in Word format, along with the hardbound copy shipped to me. You can call Eve Black, Inside Sales CD/Print Consultant Phone: 800.328.9352 ext. 42157 or 651.244.2157 Eve's email is eve.black at thomsonreuters.com. Eve had Jill Vanderziel email me the books her email is jill.vanderziel at thomsonreuters.com Don't mess with Aspen Publishers/Wolters Kluwer they gave me a big headache about receiving electronic copy and I never got them thus far. I didn't have the time to pursue it yet. But I believe its now part of copyright law, that we are entitled to electronic copies. Shop around. It’s a matter of finding the books you need, then talking to the publisher abut receiving electronic format you want. Sincerely, Marina A. Cordova Attorney at Law 551 W. Cordova Road, # 234 Santa Fe, NM 87505 Office (505) 467-8395 Fax (505) 467-8746 law at cordovafirm.com Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has.  - Margaret Mead CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email message (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Section 2510-2521, and is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Sadlier Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 1:35 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] How to Get US Law Books, Please Help Dear all, I wonder if anyone could give me some advice on how to get law books from the US in electronic format? I really need to get a couple of leading textbooks, in constitutional, administrative and insurance law. They're big books so I don't want to scan them. Many thanks, Ger _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/law%40cordovafirm. com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Jun 22 20:56:15 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:56:15 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Position at American Airlines Message-ID: From: CMPDL's Disability Discussion Docket (3D) [mailto:CMPDL-3D at MAIL.AMERICANBAR.ORG] On Behalf Of Phelan, William Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:04 AM To: CMPDL-3D at MAIL.AMERICANBAR.ORG Subject: Attorney Position at American Airlines Can search for the job at: http://www.aacareers.com/us/frame_index.htm?http&&&www.aacareers.com/us/index.shtml?from=Nav >From the page: *Attorney/General Counsel-TX-1102287 Description Management Position: Labor Attorney This description has been designed to indicate the general nature and level of work performed by employees within this classification. It is not designed to contain or be interpreted as a comprehensive inventory of all duties, responsibilities, and qualifications which may be required of employees assigned to this job classification. Job Description Seeking attorney with labor law experience to join American's legal department based in Fort Worth, Texas. Successful applicant will become a member of the department's Labor practice group, and will report to the Associate General Counsel. He or she will be responsible for providing prompt, accurate and ongoing legal advice to internal clients on a wide range of labor matters, including union contract negotiations, grievances and arbitrations, litigation, and administrative and regulatory matters, and will interact closely with various business units. The successful applicant will also be responsible for representing the company and affiliated companies in labor arbitration hearings, including witness preparation, case presentation, and the preparation of post-hearing briefs and other written products; and providing training on various labor-related matters. The successful applicant must possess: * Superior oral communication and writing skills. * Strong analytical skills. * Mature people skills, including an ability to lead through collaboration and an ability to manage outside counsel. * A strong work ethic and a proven ability to meet deadlines. * The ability to manage multiple projects simultaneously. * Ability to operate in fast-paced environment with a high level of autonomy. Most desirable characteristics include: * Prior work experience with the Railway Labor Act and/or National Labor Relations Act, and a familiarity with the Labor Management Reporting and Disclosure Act and union governance issues. * Prior experience in arbitration, litigation oversight and other management of outside counsel, counseling in contract negotiations, drafting collective bargaining agreement provisions, and union representation disputes. A familiarity with corporate structure and governance, and the economics of the airline industry. Qualifications * J.D. degree from an accredited university, with membership in good standing in the Bar Association of at least one state, preferably Texas. If candidate is not admitted to the State Bar of Texas, s/he must be eligible for immediate admission upon application. * Minimum 5 years experience as an attorney with a corporate in-house legal department, private law firm, or government agency * Legal specialization in labor relations, as described above. * Must pass a background reference check and criminal fingerprint check. * Strong PC skills. * Must be able to read, write, fluently speak and understand the English language. Ability to speak a foreign language is a plus. Job : LG-Attorney Primary Location : US-TX-Fort Worth Job Posting : Jun 13, 2011 : 05 Jul 2011 23:59:00 Equal Opportunity Employer : American Airlines is an equal opportunity employer. Work Schedule* : Full-Time William J. Phelan, IV, Esq. Special Projects & Technology Coordinator ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law T: 202-662-1576 william.phelan at americanbar.org http://www.americanbar.org/disability Notice: The contents of this e-mail may be confidential and/or privileged. If you have received this e-mail in error, or are not its intended recipient, please: do not print, copy, or distribute in any way the above message or its attachments; delete this e-mail from your computer; and inform the sender of this error. Thank you. ________________________________ From: Formella, Gregg [mailto:Gregg.Formella at aa.com] Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 3:03 PM To: Phelan, William Subject: RE: http://www.aa-promo.com/login.do And another thing: American recently posted a position for a labor attorney. Can you get this posted via a CMPDL site or list-serve? http://www.aacareers.com/us/frame_index.htm?http&&&www.aacareers.com/us/index.shtml?from=Nav Gregg Gregg Formella Senior Attorney AmericanAirlines(r) | We Know Why You Fly(r) | www.aa.com Direct Dial: 817.963.6207 | 817.967.2937 Fax | gregg.formella at aa.com PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL - attorney/client communication and/or attorney work product From: Formella, Gregg Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:44 PM To: 'Phelan, William' Subject: http://www.aa-promo.com/login.do Bill - Let's discuss the above link.. Gregg Gregg Formella Senior Attorney AmericanAirlines(r) | We Know Why You Fly(r) | www.aa.com FedEx/Mailing Address: MD 5675 | 4333 Amon Carter Blvd. | Fort Worth, TX 76155 Direct Dial: 817.963.6207 | 817.967.2937 Fax | gregg.formella at aa.com PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL - attorney/client communication and/or attorney work product ============== Going to respond to this message? Be sure to hit "Reply All" when doing so. Disability Discussion Docket (3D) ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law http://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_services/mental_physical_disability.html [cid:~WRD000.jpg] ------------------ Material distributed over 3D is for educational and informational purposes only. The contents of any e-mail, including any statements that may be construed as legal advice or referral, are solely the responsibility of the e-mail?s author. In no event shall any contents be the responsibility of and do not necessarily reflect the views of the American Bar Association, its officers, employees, agents or the Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law. ------------------ Getting too many e-mails? You can switch to the digest format by sending a message to listserv at mail.americanbar.org. Leave the subject blank and in the body of the message type "SET list HTML DIGEST". To return to the traditional subscription, follow the same directions, but put "SET list NODIGEST" in the body of the message. If you have any questions about 3D or the CMPDL in general, please contact William Phelan at william.phelan at americanbar.org. ______________________________________ Thank you for your continued interest in this list. A summary of your list subscriptions, including CMPDL-3D, can be found at http://apps.americanbar.org/elistserv/home.cfm . This new List Subscription Page allows you to manage your lists, as well as join others. If you have any issues you may either contact the list owner via email: CMPDL-3D-request at mail.americanbar.org, or the ABA Service Center at phone: 1-800-285-2221 or email: service at americanbar.org. ______________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ~WRD000.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: ~WRD000.jpg URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Jun 22 21:00:32 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 16:00:32 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91> <4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I want to try your MAC, Patty! See you at the blind lawyers' meeting. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Patti Gregory Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 6:39 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I will have my mmac at convention. Do you want to try it? Patti S. Gregory-Chang NFB, Scholarship Comm. Chair Sent from my iPhone On Jun 19, 2011, at 5:02 PM, "William Burley, III" wrote: > Hi Patti. I think my general accessibility issues is just wanting to find > something that works consistently and I'm having more and more consistent > trouble with Jaws. I'm not generally sure what to ask other than what the > other gentleman asked as far as applications and the useability when working > in an industry that is heavily Windows based. > > Thanks for any info. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access > issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Burley, III" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > >> Hello all! >> >> >> >> Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly >> switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and >> accessibility. >> >> >> >> If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to >> using >> this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? >> What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many >> others using Windows products? >> >> >> >> Thanks for any information! >> >> >> >> >> >> William Burley, III >> >> (713) 614-3322 >> >> William.burley3 at gmail.com >> >> >> >> Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! >> >> Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more >> details. >> >> >> >> Need better internet service for cheaper? >> >> Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up >> TODAY! >> >> >> >> Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 > gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 21:04:28 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 17:04:28 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Question Message-ID: <2063636AC7D04A718B06B9869131B364@hometwxakonvzn> How are court transcripts done? I hear Casey Anthonies aturniey say, "Go to page seven, line 3. Is that how transcripts are written? RJ From rumpole at roadrunner.com Wed Jun 22 21:04:45 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 17:04:45 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. D.O.J. job posting Message-ID: <3B30D90F3D33461398858D4CAC72B45C@none8a46117901> * UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES SECTION DEPUTY CHIEF, GS-15 The position will remain open until filled, but applications must be submitted no later than July 11, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/oarmvacdepchief.htm Date posted: 06-22-2011 Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From rthomas at emplmntattorney.com Wed Jun 22 22:20:46 2011 From: rthomas at emplmntattorney.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:20:46 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Question In-Reply-To: <2063636AC7D04A718B06B9869131B364@hometwxakonvzn> References: <2063636AC7D04A718B06B9869131B364@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Yes; At least in California, a transcript is usually double spaced; the line numbers appear on the far left of the page, (usually 28 lines per page) and the page number appears at the bottom, (at least that is how it looks in JAWS). Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 www.emplmntattorney.com Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:04 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Question How are court transcripts done? I hear Casey Anthonies aturniey say, "Go to page seven, line 3. Is that how transcripts are written? RJ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From rthomas at emplmntattorney.com Wed Jun 22 22:23:21 2011 From: rthomas at emplmntattorney.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:23:21 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> Message-ID: How usable is a Mac with a screen reader? Isn't Apple a little late to the party, on the issue of accessibility? It took a Court case to force Apple to make the Ipod accessible. I suppose, better late than never. Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 www.emplmntattorney.com Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:01 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I want to try your MAC, Patty! See you at the blind lawyers' meeting. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Patti Gregory Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 6:39 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I will have my mmac at convention. Do you want to try it? Patti S. Gregory-Chang NFB, Scholarship Comm. Chair Sent from my iPhone On Jun 19, 2011, at 5:02 PM, "William Burley, III" wrote: > Hi Patti. I think my general accessibility issues is just wanting to find > something that works consistently and I'm having more and more consistent > trouble with Jaws. I'm not generally sure what to ask other than what the > other gentleman asked as far as applications and the useability when working > in an industry that is heavily Windows based. > > Thanks for any info. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access > issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Burley, III" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > >> Hello all! >> >> >> >> Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly >> switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and >> accessibility. >> >> >> >> If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to >> using >> this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? >> What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many >> others using Windows products? >> >> >> >> Thanks for any information! >> >> >> >> >> >> William Burley, III >> >> (713) 614-3322 >> >> William.burley3 at gmail.com >> >> >> >> Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! >> >> Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more >> details. >> >> >> >> Need better internet service for cheaper? >> >> Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up >> TODAY! >> >> >> >> Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 > gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%4 0ed.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40emplmnta ttorney.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 22 22:50:57 2011 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:50:57 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7139F969-95BD-40DD-A299-24ECDDF87E32@sbcglobal.net> On the contrary; Apple is the FIRST company to include a superbly functional screenreader as part of its OS. While some may pay an extra $1200 for Jaws before being able to use their newly purchased computer, or must apply to an agency for it, Apple's Macintosh products--and now all of their newer I-devices--come ready to speak right out of the box. Apple is, in my opinion, the party. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From lists at zufelt.ca Thu Jun 23 00:11:27 2011 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 20:11:27 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <71C36B8D-E3C7-4F59-A8E1-55D960B63AFB@zufelt.ca> Good evening, 1. Can you please provide a reference for the court case, I wasn't aware of that. 2. Microsoft has * never * released a portable device with a built-in screen-reader. Windows Phone 7 is not even capable of using a third party screen-reader. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-06-22, at 6:23 PM, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. wrote: > How usable is a Mac with a screen reader? Isn't Apple a little late to the > party, on the issue of accessibility? It took a Court case to force Apple to > make the Ipod accessible. I suppose, better late than never. > > > Respectfully, > > > > Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > > Newport Beach, California 92660 > > T: (949) 752-0101 > > F: (949) 257-4756 > > M: (949) 466-7238 > > www.emplmntattorney.com > > Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:01 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I want to try your MAC, Patty! See you at the blind lawyers' meeting. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Patti Gregory > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 6:39 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I will have my mmac at convention. Do you want to try it? > > Patti S. Gregory-Chang > NFB, Scholarship Comm. Chair > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 19, 2011, at 5:02 PM, "William Burley, III" > wrote: > >> Hi Patti. I think my general accessibility issues is just wanting to find >> something that works consistently and I'm having more and more consistent >> trouble with Jaws. I'm not generally sure what to ask other than what the >> other gentleman asked as far as applications and the useability when > working >> in an industry that is heavily Windows based. >> >> Thanks for any info. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang >> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:46 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? >> >> I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access >> issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "William Burley, III" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? >> >> >>> Hello all! >>> >>> >>> >>> Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering > possibly >>> switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and >>> accessibility. >>> >>> >>> >>> If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to >>> using >>> this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? >>> What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many >>> others using Windows products? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for any information! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> William Burley, III >>> >>> (713) 614-3322 >>> >>> William.burley3 at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, > L.L.C.! >>> >>> Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more >>> details. >>> >>> >>> >>> Need better internet service for cheaper? >>> >>> Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up >>> TODAY! >>> >>> >>> >>> Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 >> gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n > et > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%4 > 0ed.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40emplmnta > ttorney.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Thu Jun 23 00:26:14 2011 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 00:26:14 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn><2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn><687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E100226@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Hi RJ, I read the opinion, and I think the key holding is that the learned Justices said that it doesn't matter the commendations of other cases, that the key point is what works for the individuals who are taking the exam. Take my personal situation. I am getting ready to take the MPRE this August 5th. I wrote a letter requesting the use of JAWS as when I was in primary school and high school, my amount of vision was such that I could read large print. I learned Braille after going completely blind at eighteen years of age but never used it as my primary form of literacy. I requested that if JAWS would not be permitted, I would take the exam in Braille but also requested triple time so that I would be able to slowly painstakingly read each question to understand it. I told them that JAWS was my first choice, but as a second choice I was willing to take the exam in Braille and as a third and final choice, in an audio format. They granted my request to take the exam in Braille with triple time. So, we both gave a little. At this point your most likely asking, "Why give them an option?" Because if I take the exam in Braille and fail it, which I do not believe I will do, or take the Exam using audio and also fail it, my argument, if I were to sue, will be strengthened. After jumping through all these hoops, I am better able to show for me as an individual JAWS would be the most accessible option and thus the opinion of the ninth circuit is very persuasive. As a lawyer, even a student one, whenever I walk into court I must have the strongest arguments supporting my client's position, and be able to present evidence supporting those arguments. If I were to request JAWS, then sue after being denied without trying the other formats, then I risk this situation. Lawyer for NCBE "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had Braille education in the past." My response must be "Yes" NCBE Lawyer" Then why did you not attempt the exam in Braille?" My response "Because I am unsure if I have the Braille skills to complete the exam in the time given." NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you did not attempt to take the exam in Braille so you still do not know if your skills would have enabled you to complete the exam in Braille." My response would have to be "No, I do not know if I do in fact have the skills." Or, NCBE Lawyer, "Mr. Dittman Did you explain to the NCBE why the formats of Audio, Reader, Braille, and other factors such as extended time would not work for you?" My response "yes in a letter." NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you are unwilling to try them?" My response "Yes" NCBE lawyer, "So, you truly do not know if one of the offered forms of accommodation would have been adequate for you to complete the exam." My response would have to be "No, having not taken the exam in those offered formats I do not know if they would have worked." NCBE "Your honor, this case is one in which the plaintiff was unwilling to accommodate the concerns of the NCBE as they contend that the MPRE and MBE are exams that are based on paper and completed with a pencil. The Plaintiff would like this court to grant him the ability to greatly deviate from the normal administration of the exam by using a personal computer without trying the proffered forms of accommodation which may have worked. The ninth Circuit held that it is the accommodations that work for the individual that concern us in these types of cases, and yet Mr. Dittman's suit cannot answer if these other forms of accommodations would or would have not worked as he failed to give them a chance. Now, because of the rout I have taken by given the NCBE a little wiggle room or more to the point by negotiating with them, the interaction can be this. NCBE Counsel, "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had some Braille education in the past?" My response "Yes." NCBE Counsel "And yet you still maintain that a screen reader is the only form of accommodation?" My response "Yes" NCBE Counsel "Will you please explain to the court why you believe this?" My response "I have taken the exam using extended time, in Braille, and by audio formats. Even despite using all of these accommodations I was unable to adequately understand the call of each question in the time allotted. I would submit to this court that I have been completely fair to the NCBE in working with them to address their concerns. I only ask that they now be made to understand that by the evidence I have presented that the screen reader is the only method that will truly provide me with an equal level field of access. Accommodations are in place to provide the person requesting them an even chance to complete the task as others without the disability. I have shown that I am more than willing to try the offered accommodations, and now ask the court's support in ordering the NCBE to try my requested form of accommodations. The ninth Circuit held that it is the accommodations that work for the individual that concern us in these types of cases, and given that I have tried all the other offered forms of accommodations and yet still have been unable to pass the exam, then the only just and right remedy left for us is for this court to order the NCBE to grant my requested form of accommodation of a screen reader." But, we won't have to go that far because I'm going to pass the MPRE and the MBE whatever accommodations they throw at me and get out there and advocate for equal treatment under the law. This was kind of fun. Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX  78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760  fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:34 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: Please read the opinion attached ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > What are the general facts of Stephanie's case? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:25 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> What about Stephanie's Case? RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dittman, Robert" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some >> clarity of the argument is in order. >> >> The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the >> LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school. This is not true as I and >> many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT. Was it easy, >> nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a >> separate issue from the exam itself. >> >> I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the >> accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. >> >> But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should >> not be able to bring their concerns before the court. >> >> I do have some questions. >> >> First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that they >> were "top tier". Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? >> Was it close, within a point or two? How did the plaintiff do on the >> questions that are not the puzzles? Much of the exam is perfectly >> understandable by a blind person. Perhaps there is another reason why >> they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed >> to enquiry? >> >> Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my >> school and others. I was accepted into my school of choice on a >> provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full >> admittance. Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under >> such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they >> had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, >> and even sat in on a class or two and met with students, professors, and >> other staff so that when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was >> remembered. However, given all this it was very hard for me and >> countless others to get into law school. The selection committees look at >> the whole person so in the words of one professor, "There has to be >> something that says to us, you belong in the profession of law." What >> did the rest of this person's package look like? >> >> >> So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely >> prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to >> enter. I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is >> for the court to rule upon. I am saying that placing all of the blame at >> the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. >> >> With respect, >> >> >> Robert D. Dittman >> Student Attorney >> St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) >> 2507 N.W. 36th Street >> San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 >> Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 >> Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any >> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may >> contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized >> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not >> the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail >> and destroy all copies of the original message. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these >> United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider >> becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame >> discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, >> is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take >> them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT >> will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the >>> LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. >>> Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having >>> accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate >>> material on it. >>> Beth >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi, Michael. >>>>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>>>> into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>>>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>>>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>>>> Good luck >>>>> Beth Taurasi >>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Greetings! all: >>>>>> >>>>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>>>> does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>>> >>>>>> Respectfully! >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>>>> * >>>>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>>>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >>>> oose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks >>> andefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From mikefry79 at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 00:55:37 2011 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 17:55:37 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E100226@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com> <92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn> <2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn> <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E100226@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: Hi Mike, I highly recommend that you take the Kaplan LSAT review course. You need to study your butt off for the LSAT. Take the review course and do all the practice exams. The review course is about $1,000. In my opinion, well worth it. Talk to your undergraduate schools career services about options for paying for the LSAT and LSAT review course. Don't let the NPR story get you down. The reality is that nearly everyone on this list is blind and took the LSAT and is a practicing attorney. I notice that sometimes NPR sensationalizing stories. Hi Beth, How do you use your iphone while being visually impaired? I ask because I want an iphone but am under the impression they don't work well for the visually impaired. On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Dittman, Robert wrote: > Hi RJ, > > I read the opinion, and I think the key holding is that the learned Justices said that it doesn't matter the commendations of other cases, that the key point is what works for the individuals who are taking the exam. > > Take my personal situation. I am getting ready to take the MPRE this August 5th. I wrote a letter requesting the use of JAWS as when I was in primary school and high school, my amount of vision was such that I could read large print.  I learned Braille after going completely blind at eighteen years of age but never used it as my primary form of literacy. I requested that if JAWS would not be permitted, I would take the exam in Braille but also requested triple time so that I would be able to slowly painstakingly read each question to understand it. I told them that JAWS was my first choice, but as a second choice I was willing to take the exam in Braille and as a third and final choice, in an audio format. > > They granted my request to take the exam in Braille with triple time.  So, we both gave a little. > At this point your most likely asking, "Why give them an option?"  Because if I take the exam in Braille and fail it, which I do not believe I will do, or take the Exam using audio and also fail it, my argument, if I were to sue, will be strengthened.  After jumping through all these hoops, I am better able to show for me as an individual JAWS would be the most accessible option and thus the opinion of the ninth circuit is very persuasive. > > As a lawyer, even a student one,  whenever I walk into court I must have the strongest arguments supporting my client's position, and be able to present evidence supporting those arguments.  If I were to request JAWS, then sue after being denied without trying the other formats, then I risk this situation. > > Lawyer for NCBE "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had Braille education in the past." > My response must be "Yes" > NCBE Lawyer" Then why did you not attempt the exam in Braille?" > My response "Because I am unsure if I have the Braille skills to complete the exam in the time given." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you did not attempt to take the exam in Braille so you still do not know if your skills would have enabled you to complete the exam in Braille." > My response would have to be "No, I do not know if I do in fact have the skills." > Or, > NCBE Lawyer, "Mr. Dittman Did you explain to the NCBE why the formats of Audio, Reader, Braille, and other factors such as extended time would not work for you?" > My response "yes in a letter." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you are unwilling to try them?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE lawyer, "So, you truly do not know if one of the offered forms of accommodation would have been adequate for you to complete the exam." > My response would have to be  "No, having not taken the exam in those offered formats I do not know if they would have worked." > > NCBE "Your honor, this case is one in which the plaintiff was unwilling to accommodate the concerns of the NCBE as they contend that the MPRE and MBE are exams that are based on paper and completed with a pencil. The Plaintiff would like this court to grant him the ability to greatly deviate from the normal administration of the exam by using a personal computer without trying the proffered forms of accommodation which may have worked.  The ninth Circuit held that it is the accommodations that work for the individual that concern us in these types of cases, and yet Mr. Dittman's suit cannot answer if these other forms of accommodations would or would have not worked as he failed to give them a chance. > > Now, because of the rout I have taken by given the NCBE a little wiggle room or more to the point by negotiating with them, the interaction can be this. > > NCBE Counsel, "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had some Braille education in the past?" > My response "Yes." > NCBE Counsel "And yet you still maintain that a screen reader is the only form of accommodation?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE Counsel "Will you please explain to the court why you believe this?" > My response "I have taken the exam using extended time, in Braille, and by audio formats. Even despite using all of these accommodations I was unable to adequately understand the call of each question in the time allotted. I would submit to this court that I have been completely fair to the NCBE in working with them to address their concerns. I only ask that they now be made to understand that by the evidence I have presented that the screen reader is the only method that will truly provide me with an equal level field of access.  Accommodations are in place to provide the person requesting them an even chance to complete the task as others without the disability. I have shown that I am more than willing to try the offered accommodations, and now ask the court's support in ordering the NCBE to try my requested form of accommodations. The ninth Circuit held that it is the accommodations that work for the individual that concern us in these types of cases, and given that I have tried all the other offered forms of accommodations and yet still have been unable to pass the exam, then the only just and right remedy left for us is for this court to order the NCBE to grant my requested form of accommodation of a screen reader." > > But, we won't have to go that far because I'm going to pass the MPRE and the MBE whatever accommodations they throw at me and get out there and advocate for equal treatment under the law. > > This was kind of fun. > > > Robert D. Dittman > Student Attorney > St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) > 2507 N.W. 36th Street > San Antonio, TX  78228-3918 > Phone: (210) 431-5760  fax: (210) 431-5700 > Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail > and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:34 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > Please read the opinion attached > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:50 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> What are the general facts of Stephanie's case? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> What about Stephanie's Case? RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dittman, Robert" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some >>> clarity of the argument is in order. >>> >>> The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the >>> LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school.  This is not true as I and >>> many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT.  Was it easy, >>> nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a >>> separate issue from the exam itself. >>> >>> I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the >>> accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. >>> >>> But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should >>> not be able to bring their concerns before the court. >>> >>> I do have some questions. >>> >>> First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that they >>> were "top tier".  Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? >>> Was it close, within a point or two?  How did the plaintiff do on the >>> questions that are not the puzzles?  Much of the exam is perfectly >>> understandable by a blind person.  Perhaps there is another reason why >>> they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed >>> to enquiry? >>> >>> Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my >>> school and others.  I was accepted into my school of choice on a >>> provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full >>> admittance.  Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under >>> such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they >>> had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, >>> and even sat in on a class or two and met with students, professors, and >>> other staff so that when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was >>> remembered.  However, given all this it was very hard for me and >>> countless others to get into law school. The selection committees look at >>> the whole person so in the words of one professor, "There has to be >>> something that says to us, you belong in the profession of law."  What >>> did the rest of this person's package look like? >>> >>> >>> So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely >>> prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to >>> enter.  I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is >>> for the court to rule upon.  I am saying that placing all of the blame at >>> the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. >>> >>> With respect, >>> >>> >>> Robert D. Dittman >>> Student Attorney >>> St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) >>> 2507 N.W. 36th Street >>> San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 >>> Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 >>> Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu >>> >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any >>> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may >>> contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized >>> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not >>> the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail >>> and destroy all copies of the original message. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these >>> United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider >>> becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame >>> discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, >>> is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take >>> them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT >>> will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>>> I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the >>>> LSAT is what it is.  It's worse than having to do quant comps. >>>> Remember those things on the SAT?  The only difference is that having >>>> accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate >>>> material on it. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Michael. >>>>>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>>>>> into law school.  You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>>>>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>>>>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>>>>> Good luck >>>>>> Beth Taurasi >>>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Greetings! all: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>>>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>>>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>>>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>>>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>>>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>>>>> does online.  I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>>>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>>>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>>>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>>>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>>>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>>>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>>>>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >>>>> oose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks >>>> andefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 01:11:48 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 21:11:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn><2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn><687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu><687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E100226@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: What do others of you think of this opinion? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Fry" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: Hi Mike, I highly recommend that you take the Kaplan LSAT review course. You need to study your butt off for the LSAT. Take the review course and do all the practice exams. The review course is about $1,000. In my opinion, well worth it. Talk to your undergraduate schools career services about options for paying for the LSAT and LSAT review course. Don't let the NPR story get you down. The reality is that nearly everyone on this list is blind and took the LSAT and is a practicing attorney. I notice that sometimes NPR sensationalizing stories. Hi Beth, How do you use your iphone while being visually impaired? I ask because I want an iphone but am under the impression they don't work well for the visually impaired. On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Dittman, Robert wrote: > Hi RJ, > > I read the opinion, and I think the key holding is that the learned > Justices said that it doesn't matter the commendations of other cases, > that the key point is what works for the individuals who are taking the > exam. > > Take my personal situation. I am getting ready to take the MPRE this > August 5th. I wrote a letter requesting the use of JAWS as when I was in > primary school and high school, my amount of vision was such that I could > read large print. I learned Braille after going completely blind at > eighteen years of age but never used it as my primary form of literacy. I > requested that if JAWS would not be permitted, I would take the exam in > Braille but also requested triple time so that I would be able to slowly > painstakingly read each question to understand it. I told them that JAWS > was my first choice, but as a second choice I was willing to take the exam > in Braille and as a third and final choice, in an audio format. > > They granted my request to take the exam in Braille with triple time. So, > we both gave a little. > At this point your most likely asking, "Why give them an option?" Because > if I take the exam in Braille and fail it, which I do not believe I will > do, or take the Exam using audio and also fail it, my argument, if I were > to sue, will be strengthened. After jumping through all these hoops, I am > better able to show for me as an individual JAWS would be the most > accessible option and thus the opinion of the ninth circuit is very > persuasive. > > As a lawyer, even a student one, whenever I walk into court I must have > the strongest arguments supporting my client's position, and be able to > present evidence supporting those arguments. If I were to request JAWS, > then sue after being denied without trying the other formats, then I risk > this situation. > > Lawyer for NCBE "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had Braille > education in the past." > My response must be "Yes" > NCBE Lawyer" Then why did you not attempt the exam in Braille?" > My response "Because I am unsure if I have the Braille skills to complete > the exam in the time given." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you did not attempt to take the exam in Braille so > you still do not know if your skills would have enabled you to complete > the exam in Braille." > My response would have to be "No, I do not know if I do in fact have the > skills." > Or, > NCBE Lawyer, "Mr. Dittman Did you explain to the NCBE why the formats of > Audio, Reader, Braille, and other factors such as extended time would not > work for you?" > My response "yes in a letter." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you are unwilling to try them?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE lawyer, "So, you truly do not know if one of the offered forms of > accommodation would have been adequate for you to complete the exam." > My response would have to be "No, having not taken the exam in those > offered formats I do not know if they would have worked." > > NCBE "Your honor, this case is one in which the plaintiff was unwilling to > accommodate the concerns of the NCBE as they contend that the MPRE and MBE > are exams that are based on paper and completed with a pencil. The > Plaintiff would like this court to grant him the ability to greatly > deviate from the normal administration of the exam by using a personal > computer without trying the proffered forms of accommodation which may > have worked. The ninth Circuit held that it is the accommodations that > work for the individual that concern us in these types of cases, and yet > Mr. Dittman's suit cannot answer if these other forms of accommodations > would or would have not worked as he failed to give them a chance. > > Now, because of the rout I have taken by given the NCBE a little wiggle > room or more to the point by negotiating with them, the interaction can be > this. > > NCBE Counsel, "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had some Braille > education in the past?" > My response "Yes." > NCBE Counsel "And yet you still maintain that a screen reader is the only > form of accommodation?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE Counsel "Will you please explain to the court why you believe this?" > My response "I have taken the exam using extended time, in Braille, and by > audio formats. Even despite using all of these accommodations I was unable > to adequately understand the call of each question in the time allotted. I > would submit to this court that I have been completely fair to the NCBE in > working with them to address their concerns. I only ask that they now be > made to understand that by the evidence I have presented that the screen > reader is the only method that will truly provide me with an equal level > field of access. Accommodations are in place to provide the person > requesting them an even chance to complete the task as others without the > disability. I have shown that I am more than willing to try the offered > accommodations, and now ask the court's support in ordering the NCBE to > try my requested form of accommodations. The ninth Circuit held that it is > the accommodations that work for the individual that concern us in these > types of cases, and given that I have tried all the other offered forms of > accommodations and yet still have been unable to pass the exam, then the > only just and right remedy left for us is for this court to order the NCBE > to grant my requested form of accommodation of a screen reader." > > But, we won't have to go that far because I'm going to pass the MPRE and > the MBE whatever accommodations they throw at me and get out there and > advocate for equal treatment under the law. > > This was kind of fun. > > > Robert D. Dittman > Student Attorney > St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) > 2507 N.W. 36th Street > San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 > Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 > Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail > and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:34 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > Please read the opinion attached > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:50 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> What are the general facts of Stephanie's case? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> What about Stephanie's Case? RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dittman, Robert" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some >>> clarity of the argument is in order. >>> >>> The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the >>> LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school. This is not true as I and >>> many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT. Was it easy, >>> nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a >>> separate issue from the exam itself. >>> >>> I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the >>> accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. >>> >>> But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should >>> not be able to bring their concerns before the court. >>> >>> I do have some questions. >>> >>> First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that >>> they >>> were "top tier". Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? >>> Was it close, within a point or two? How did the plaintiff do on the >>> questions that are not the puzzles? Much of the exam is perfectly >>> understandable by a blind person. Perhaps there is another reason why >>> they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed >>> to enquiry? >>> >>> Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my >>> school and others. I was accepted into my school of choice on a >>> provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full >>> admittance. Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under >>> such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they >>> had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, >>> and even sat in on a class or two and met with students, professors, and >>> other staff so that when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was >>> remembered. However, given all this it was very hard for me and >>> countless others to get into law school. The selection committees look >>> at >>> the whole person so in the words of one professor, "There has to be >>> something that says to us, you belong in the profession of law." What >>> did the rest of this person's package look like? >>> >>> >>> So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely >>> prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to >>> enter. I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is >>> for the court to rule upon. I am saying that placing all of the blame at >>> the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. >>> >>> With respect, >>> >>> >>> Robert D. Dittman >>> Student Attorney >>> St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil >>> Clinic) >>> 2507 N.W. 36th Street >>> San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 >>> Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 >>> Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu >>> >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any >>> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may >>> contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized >>> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not >>> the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail >>> and destroy all copies of the original message. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these >>> United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider >>> becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame >>> discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, >>> is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take >>> them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT >>> will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>>> I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the >>>> LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. >>>> Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having >>>> accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate >>>> material on it. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Michael. >>>>>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>>>>> into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>>>>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>>>>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>>>>> Good luck >>>>>> Beth Taurasi >>>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Greetings! all: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>>>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>>>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>>>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>>>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>>>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>>>>> does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>>>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>>>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>>>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>>>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>>>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>>>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>>>>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >>>>> oose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks >>>> andefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Thu Jun 23 01:20:52 2011 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 01:20:52 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com> <92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn> <2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn> <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E100226@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E1002C2@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Hi Mike, I use an IPhone and love it. The screen reader, voice over, is very easy to learn and use. You place your finger on the screen, move it around, and the IPhone reads everything out to you. Get your hands on one and you will love it. At the time of this message, Verizon and AT&T are the only two cellular providers who have the IPhone. Good luck and I would be happy to help in any way I can. Rob Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX  78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760  fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Fry Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:56 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: Hi Mike, I highly recommend that you take the Kaplan LSAT review course. You need to study your butt off for the LSAT. Take the review course and do all the practice exams. The review course is about $1,000. In my opinion, well worth it. Talk to your undergraduate schools career services about options for paying for the LSAT and LSAT review course. Don't let the NPR story get you down. The reality is that nearly everyone on this list is blind and took the LSAT and is a practicing attorney. I notice that sometimes NPR sensationalizing stories. Hi Beth, How do you use your iphone while being visually impaired? I ask because I want an iphone but am under the impression they don't work well for the visually impaired. On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Dittman, Robert wrote: > Hi RJ, > > I read the opinion, and I think the key holding is that the learned Justices said that it doesn't matter the commendations of other cases, that the key point is what works for the individuals who are taking the exam. > > Take my personal situation. I am getting ready to take the MPRE this August 5th. I wrote a letter requesting the use of JAWS as when I was in primary school and high school, my amount of vision was such that I could read large print.  I learned Braille after going completely blind at eighteen years of age but never used it as my primary form of literacy. I requested that if JAWS would not be permitted, I would take the exam in Braille but also requested triple time so that I would be able to slowly painstakingly read each question to understand it. I told them that JAWS was my first choice, but as a second choice I was willing to take the exam in Braille and as a third and final choice, in an audio format. > > They granted my request to take the exam in Braille with triple time.  So, we both gave a little. > At this point your most likely asking, "Why give them an option?"  Because if I take the exam in Braille and fail it, which I do not believe I will do, or take the Exam using audio and also fail it, my argument, if I were to sue, will be strengthened.  After jumping through all these hoops, I am better able to show for me as an individual JAWS would be the most accessible option and thus the opinion of the ninth circuit is very persuasive. > > As a lawyer, even a student one,  whenever I walk into court I must have the strongest arguments supporting my client's position, and be able to present evidence supporting those arguments.  If I were to request JAWS, then sue after being denied without trying the other formats, then I risk this situation. > > Lawyer for NCBE "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had Braille education in the past." > My response must be "Yes" > NCBE Lawyer" Then why did you not attempt the exam in Braille?" > My response "Because I am unsure if I have the Braille skills to complete the exam in the time given." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you did not attempt to take the exam in Braille so you still do not know if your skills would have enabled you to complete the exam in Braille." > My response would have to be "No, I do not know if I do in fact have the skills." > Or, > NCBE Lawyer, "Mr. Dittman Did you explain to the NCBE why the formats of Audio, Reader, Braille, and other factors such as extended time would not work for you?" > My response "yes in a letter." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you are unwilling to try them?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE lawyer, "So, you truly do not know if one of the offered forms of accommodation would have been adequate for you to complete the exam." > My response would have to be  "No, having not taken the exam in those offered formats I do not know if they would have worked." > > NCBE "Your honor, this case is one in which the plaintiff was unwilling to accommodate the concerns of the NCBE as they contend that the MPRE and MBE are exams that are based on paper and completed with a pencil. The Plaintiff would like this court to grant him the ability to greatly deviate from the normal administration of the exam by using a personal computer without trying the proffered forms of accommodation which may have worked.  The ninth Circuit held that it is the accommodations that work for the individual that concern us in these types of cases, and yet Mr. Dittman's suit cannot answer if these other forms of accommodations would or would have not worked as he failed to give them a chance. > > Now, because of the rout I have taken by given the NCBE a little wiggle room or more to the point by negotiating with them, the interaction can be this. > > NCBE Counsel, "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had some Braille education in the past?" > My response "Yes." > NCBE Counsel "And yet you still maintain that a screen reader is the only form of accommodation?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE Counsel "Will you please explain to the court why you believe this?" > My response "I have taken the exam using extended time, in Braille, and by audio formats. Even despite using all of these accommodations I was unable to adequately understand the call of each question in the time allotted. I would submit to this court that I have been completely fair to the NCBE in working with them to address their concerns. I only ask that they now be made to understand that by the evidence I have presented that the screen reader is the only method that will truly provide me with an equal level field of access.  Accommodations are in place to provide the person requesting them an even chance to complete the task as others without the disability. I have shown that I am more than willing to try the offered accommodations, and now ask the court's support in ordering the NCBE to try my requested form of accommodations. The ninth Circuit held that it is the accommodations that work for the individual that concern us in these types of cases, and given that I have tried all the other offered forms of accommodations and yet still have been unable to pass the exam, then the only just and right remedy left for us is for this court to order the NCBE to grant my requested form of accommodation of a screen reader." > > But, we won't have to go that far because I'm going to pass the MPRE and the MBE whatever accommodations they throw at me and get out there and advocate for equal treatment under the law. > > This was kind of fun. > > > Robert D. Dittman > Student Attorney > St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil > Clinic) > 2507 N.W. 36th Street > San Antonio, TX  78228-3918 > Phone: (210) 431-5760  fax: (210) 431-5700 > Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail > and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:34 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > Please read the opinion attached > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:50 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> What are the general facts of Stephanie's case? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> What about Stephanie's Case? RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dittman, Robert" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some >>> clarity of the argument is in order. >>> >>> The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" >>> the LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school.  This is not true >>> as I and many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT.   >>> Was it easy, nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, >>> but that is a separate issue from the exam itself. >>> >>> I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the >>> accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. >>> >>> But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person >>> should not be able to bring their concerns before the court. >>> >>> I do have some questions. >>> >>> First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that >>> they were "top tier".  Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? >>> Was it close, within a point or two?  How did the plaintiff do on >>> the questions that are not the puzzles?  Much of the exam is >>> perfectly understandable by a blind person.  Perhaps there is >>> another reason why they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a >>> lack of admission closed to enquiry? >>> >>> Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my >>> school and others.  I was accepted into my school of choice on a >>> provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full >>> admittance.  Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school >>> under such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school >>> that they had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they >>> knew my name, and even sat in on a class or two and met with >>> students, professors, and other staff so that when my application >>> hit their desk, I am sure I was remembered.  However, given all this >>> it was very hard for me and countless others to get into law school. >>> The selection committees look at the whole person so in the words of >>> one professor, "There has to be something that says to us, you >>> belong in the profession of law."  What did the rest of this person's package look like? >>> >>> >>> So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely >>> prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped >>> to enter.  I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, >>> that is for the court to rule upon.  I am saying that placing all of >>> the blame at the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. >>> >>> With respect, >>> >>> >>> Robert D. Dittman >>> Student Attorney >>> St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil >>> Clinic) >>> 2507 N.W. 36th Street >>> San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 >>> Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 >>> Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu >>> >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any >>> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and >>> may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any >>> unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. >>> If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the >>> sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of >>> these United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should >>> consider becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've >>> overcame discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you >>> can do Beth, is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to >>> take, then take them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter >>> law school, the LSAT will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>>> I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the >>>> LSAT is what it is.  It's worse than having to do quant comps. >>>> Remember those things on the SAT?  The only difference is that >>>> having accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had >>>> inappropriate material on it. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>>> >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Michael. >>>>>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>>>>> into law school.  You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>>>>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>>>>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>>>>> Good luck >>>>>> Beth Taurasi >>>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Greetings! all: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>>>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I >>>>>>> am able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>>>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on >>>>>>> UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the >>>>>>> admission office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, >>>>>>> that one does online.  I at this present time do not have access >>>>>>> to a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to >>>>>>> pay the cost of the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence >>>>>>> stuff completed no later then the end of March 2012. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>>>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>>>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>>>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/theblu >>>>>>> esi >>>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jolting >>>>>> jac >>>>>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/theblues >>>>> isl >>>>> oose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingja >>>> cks >>>> andefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%4 >>> 0stmarytx.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40s >>> bcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjack >> sandefur%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40 > gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Thu Jun 23 01:25:04 2011 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 01:25:04 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn><2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn><687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu><687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E100226@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E1002F1@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> I used a LSAT review course through my undergrad school. It was about $500, but Kaplan has done wonders for me while in law school so would trust them to deliver. Good luck. Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX  78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760  fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:12 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: What do others of you think of this opinion? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Fry" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: Hi Mike, I highly recommend that you take the Kaplan LSAT review course. You need to study your butt off for the LSAT. Take the review course and do all the practice exams. The review course is about $1,000. In my opinion, well worth it. Talk to your undergraduate schools career services about options for paying for the LSAT and LSAT review course. Don't let the NPR story get you down. The reality is that nearly everyone on this list is blind and took the LSAT and is a practicing attorney. I notice that sometimes NPR sensationalizing stories. Hi Beth, How do you use your iphone while being visually impaired? I ask because I want an iphone but am under the impression they don't work well for the visually impaired. On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Dittman, Robert wrote: > Hi RJ, > > I read the opinion, and I think the key holding is that the learned > Justices said that it doesn't matter the commendations of other cases, > that the key point is what works for the individuals who are taking the > exam. > > Take my personal situation. I am getting ready to take the MPRE this > August 5th. I wrote a letter requesting the use of JAWS as when I was in > primary school and high school, my amount of vision was such that I could > read large print. I learned Braille after going completely blind at > eighteen years of age but never used it as my primary form of literacy. I > requested that if JAWS would not be permitted, I would take the exam in > Braille but also requested triple time so that I would be able to slowly > painstakingly read each question to understand it. I told them that JAWS > was my first choice, but as a second choice I was willing to take the exam > in Braille and as a third and final choice, in an audio format. > > They granted my request to take the exam in Braille with triple time. So, > we both gave a little. > At this point your most likely asking, "Why give them an option?" Because > if I take the exam in Braille and fail it, which I do not believe I will > do, or take the Exam using audio and also fail it, my argument, if I were > to sue, will be strengthened. After jumping through all these hoops, I am > better able to show for me as an individual JAWS would be the most > accessible option and thus the opinion of the ninth circuit is very > persuasive. > > As a lawyer, even a student one, whenever I walk into court I must have > the strongest arguments supporting my client's position, and be able to > present evidence supporting those arguments. If I were to request JAWS, > then sue after being denied without trying the other formats, then I risk > this situation. > > Lawyer for NCBE "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had Braille > education in the past." > My response must be "Yes" > NCBE Lawyer" Then why did you not attempt the exam in Braille?" > My response "Because I am unsure if I have the Braille skills to complete > the exam in the time given." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you did not attempt to take the exam in Braille so > you still do not know if your skills would have enabled you to complete > the exam in Braille." > My response would have to be "No, I do not know if I do in fact have the > skills." > Or, > NCBE Lawyer, "Mr. Dittman Did you explain to the NCBE why the formats of > Audio, Reader, Braille, and other factors such as extended time would not > work for you?" > My response "yes in a letter." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you are unwilling to try them?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE lawyer, "So, you truly do not know if one of the offered forms of > accommodation would have been adequate for you to complete the exam." > My response would have to be "No, having not taken the exam in those > offered formats I do not know if they would have worked." > > NCBE "Your honor, this case is one in which the plaintiff was unwilling to > accommodate the concerns of the NCBE as they contend that the MPRE and MBE > are exams that are based on paper and completed with a pencil. The > Plaintiff would like this court to grant him the ability to greatly > deviate from the normal administration of the exam by using a personal > computer without trying the proffered forms of accommodation which may > have worked. The ninth Circuit held that it is the accommodations that > work for the individual that concern us in these types of cases, and yet > Mr. Dittman's suit cannot answer if these other forms of accommodations > would or would have not worked as he failed to give them a chance. > > Now, because of the rout I have taken by given the NCBE a little wiggle > room or more to the point by negotiating with them, the interaction can be > this. > > NCBE Counsel, "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had some Braille > education in the past?" > My response "Yes." > NCBE Counsel "And yet you still maintain that a screen reader is the only > form of accommodation?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE Counsel "Will you please explain to the court why you believe this?" > My response "I have taken the exam using extended time, in Braille, and by > audio formats. Even despite using all of these accommodations I was unable > to adequately understand the call of each question in the time allotted. I > would submit to this court that I have been completely fair to the NCBE in > working with them to address their concerns. I only ask that they now be > made to understand that by the evidence I have presented that the screen > reader is the only method that will truly provide me with an equal level > field of access. Accommodations are in place to provide the person > requesting them an even chance to complete the task as others without the > disability. I have shown that I am more than willing to try the offered > accommodations, and now ask the court's support in ordering the NCBE to > try my requested form of accommodations. The ninth Circuit held that it is > the accommodations that work for the individual that concern us in these > types of cases, and given that I have tried all the other offered forms of > accommodations and yet still have been unable to pass the exam, then the > only just and right remedy left for us is for this court to order the NCBE > to grant my requested form of accommodation of a screen reader." > > But, we won't have to go that far because I'm going to pass the MPRE and > the MBE whatever accommodations they throw at me and get out there and > advocate for equal treatment under the law. > > This was kind of fun. > > > Robert D. Dittman > Student Attorney > St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) > 2507 N.W. 36th Street > San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 > Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 > Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail > and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:34 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > Please read the opinion attached > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:50 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> What are the general facts of Stephanie's case? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> What about Stephanie's Case? RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dittman, Robert" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some >>> clarity of the argument is in order. >>> >>> The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the >>> LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school. This is not true as I and >>> many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT. Was it easy, >>> nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a >>> separate issue from the exam itself. >>> >>> I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the >>> accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. >>> >>> But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should >>> not be able to bring their concerns before the court. >>> >>> I do have some questions. >>> >>> First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that >>> they >>> were "top tier". Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? >>> Was it close, within a point or two? How did the plaintiff do on the >>> questions that are not the puzzles? Much of the exam is perfectly >>> understandable by a blind person. Perhaps there is another reason why >>> they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed >>> to enquiry? >>> >>> Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my >>> school and others. I was accepted into my school of choice on a >>> provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full >>> admittance. Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under >>> such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they >>> had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, >>> and even sat in on a class or two and met with students, professors, and >>> other staff so that when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was >>> remembered. However, given all this it was very hard for me and >>> countless others to get into law school. The selection committees look >>> at >>> the whole person so in the words of one professor, "There has to be >>> something that says to us, you belong in the profession of law." What >>> did the rest of this person's package look like? >>> >>> >>> So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely >>> prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to >>> enter. I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is >>> for the court to rule upon. I am saying that placing all of the blame at >>> the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. >>> >>> With respect, >>> >>> >>> Robert D. Dittman >>> Student Attorney >>> St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil >>> Clinic) >>> 2507 N.W. 36th Street >>> San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 >>> Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 >>> Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu >>> >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any >>> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may >>> contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized >>> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not >>> the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail >>> and destroy all copies of the original message. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these >>> United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider >>> becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame >>> discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, >>> is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take >>> them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT >>> will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>>> I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the >>>> LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. >>>> Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having >>>> accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate >>>> material on it. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Michael. >>>>>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>>>>> into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>>>>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>>>>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>>>>> Good luck >>>>>> Beth Taurasi >>>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Greetings! all: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>>>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>>>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>>>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>>>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>>>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>>>>> does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>>>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>>>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>>>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>>>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>>>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>>>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>>>>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >>>>> oose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks >>>> andefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu From Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov Thu Jun 23 11:55:01 2011 From: Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov (Norman, Gary C. (CMS/OSORA)) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 07:55:01 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] (no subject) Message-ID: <5F7E6855B3549A4096D6B30DCADC2D045B4470F992@PL-EMSMB4.ees.hhs.gov> Greetings: At the forthcoming 2011 A.C.B. convention, training on West Law will be provided. Training will be provided on 11 July in a suite commencing at 9:30 A.M. The process for scheduling individual sessions is now commencing. So if people want a session, please transmit an e-mail to the point of contact for the sessions, Mr. Jeff Thom, Esq. at jsthom at comcast.net or telephone (916) 995-3967 with two requested time slots. Thanks to West Law for its collaboration with lawyers with disabilities, i.e. they have provided training under the auspices of the N.F.B. and they will provide training at the convention of A.C.B. Joshua L. Friedman, Esq. M.B.A. and I recently led a symposium in which West Law and Lexis were good and strong partners. Sincerely, Gary C. Norman, L.L.M. From amatney at hf-law.com Thu Jun 23 12:57:38 2011 From: amatney at hf-law.com (Angela Matney) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 08:57:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E1002F1@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn><2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn><687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu><687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E100226@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E1002F1@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <9E93687A9231064FAD3BBDD80BE19E2B063C2A69@hfexch1.hirschlerfleischer.com> I didn't use Kaplan for LSAT review, but I used them to supplement my Bar/Bri bar review course, and they were excellent. The web site for their practice test questions was accessible, and they responded quickly to my request for materials in an alternate format. For the LSAT, I used the books produced by the Law School Admission Council that contain actual LSAT's. Some of these are available on Bookshare, I think. But if you are considering a review course, I would recommend Kaplan based on my experience. If you receive VR services, it is possible that they could fund the course. Best, Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dittman, Robert Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 9:25 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: I used a LSAT review course through my undergrad school. It was about $500, but Kaplan has done wonders for me while in law school so would trust them to deliver. Good luck. Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:12 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: What do others of you think of this opinion? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Fry" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: Hi Mike, I highly recommend that you take the Kaplan LSAT review course. You need to study your butt off for the LSAT. Take the review course and do all the practice exams. The review course is about $1,000. In my opinion, well worth it. Talk to your undergraduate schools career services about options for paying for the LSAT and LSAT review course. Don't let the NPR story get you down. The reality is that nearly everyone on this list is blind and took the LSAT and is a practicing attorney. I notice that sometimes NPR sensationalizing stories. Hi Beth, How do you use your iphone while being visually impaired? I ask because I want an iphone but am under the impression they don't work well for the visually impaired. On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Dittman, Robert wrote: > Hi RJ, > > I read the opinion, and I think the key holding is that the learned > Justices said that it doesn't matter the commendations of other cases, > that the key point is what works for the individuals who are taking the > exam. > > Take my personal situation. I am getting ready to take the MPRE this > August 5th. I wrote a letter requesting the use of JAWS as when I was in > primary school and high school, my amount of vision was such that I could > read large print. I learned Braille after going completely blind at > eighteen years of age but never used it as my primary form of literacy. I > requested that if JAWS would not be permitted, I would take the exam in > Braille but also requested triple time so that I would be able to slowly > painstakingly read each question to understand it. I told them that JAWS > was my first choice, but as a second choice I was willing to take the exam > in Braille and as a third and final choice, in an audio format. > > They granted my request to take the exam in Braille with triple time. So, > we both gave a little. > At this point your most likely asking, "Why give them an option?" Because > if I take the exam in Braille and fail it, which I do not believe I will > do, or take the Exam using audio and also fail it, my argument, if I were > to sue, will be strengthened. After jumping through all these hoops, I am > better able to show for me as an individual JAWS would be the most > accessible option and thus the opinion of the ninth circuit is very > persuasive. > > As a lawyer, even a student one, whenever I walk into court I must have > the strongest arguments supporting my client's position, and be able to > present evidence supporting those arguments. If I were to request JAWS, > then sue after being denied without trying the other formats, then I risk > this situation. > > Lawyer for NCBE "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had Braille > education in the past." > My response must be "Yes" > NCBE Lawyer" Then why did you not attempt the exam in Braille?" > My response "Because I am unsure if I have the Braille skills to complete > the exam in the time given." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you did not attempt to take the exam in Braille so > you still do not know if your skills would have enabled you to complete > the exam in Braille." > My response would have to be "No, I do not know if I do in fact have the > skills." > Or, > NCBE Lawyer, "Mr. Dittman Did you explain to the NCBE why the formats of > Audio, Reader, Braille, and other factors such as extended time would not > work for you?" > My response "yes in a letter." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you are unwilling to try them?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE lawyer, "So, you truly do not know if one of the offered forms of > accommodation would have been adequate for you to complete the exam." > My response would have to be "No, having not taken the exam in those > offered formats I do not know if they would have worked." > > NCBE "Your honor, this case is one in which the plaintiff was unwilling to > accommodate the concerns of the NCBE as they contend that the MPRE and MBE > are exams that are based on paper and completed with a pencil. The > Plaintiff would like this court to grant him the ability to greatly > deviate from the normal administration of the exam by using a personal > computer without trying the proffered forms of accommodation which may > have worked. The ninth Circuit held that it is the accommodations that > work for the individual that concern us in these types of cases, and yet > Mr. Dittman's suit cannot answer if these other forms of accommodations > would or would have not worked as he failed to give them a chance. > > Now, because of the rout I have taken by given the NCBE a little wiggle > room or more to the point by negotiating with them, the interaction can be > this. > > NCBE Counsel, "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had some Braille > education in the past?" > My response "Yes." > NCBE Counsel "And yet you still maintain that a screen reader is the only > form of accommodation?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE Counsel "Will you please explain to the court why you believe this?" > My response "I have taken the exam using extended time, in Braille, and by > audio formats. Even despite using all of these accommodations I was unable > to adequately understand the call of each question in the time allotted. I > would submit to this court that I have been completely fair to the NCBE in > working with them to address their concerns. I only ask that they now be > made to understand that by the evidence I have presented that the screen > reader is the only method that will truly provide me with an equal level > field of access. Accommodations are in place to provide the person > requesting them an even chance to complete the task as others without the > disability. I have shown that I am more than willing to try the offered > accommodations, and now ask the court's support in ordering the NCBE to > try my requested form of accommodations. The ninth Circuit held that it is > the accommodations that work for the individual that concern us in these > types of cases, and given that I have tried all the other offered forms of > accommodations and yet still have been unable to pass the exam, then the > only just and right remedy left for us is for this court to order the NCBE > to grant my requested form of accommodation of a screen reader." > > But, we won't have to go that far because I'm going to pass the MPRE and > the MBE whatever accommodations they throw at me and get out there and > advocate for equal treatment under the law. > > This was kind of fun. > > > Robert D. Dittman > Student Attorney > St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) > 2507 N.W. 36th Street > San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 > Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 > Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail > and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:34 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > Please read the opinion attached > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:50 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> What are the general facts of Stephanie's case? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> What about Stephanie's Case? RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dittman, Robert" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some >>> clarity of the argument is in order. >>> >>> The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the >>> LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school. This is not true as I and >>> many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT. Was it easy, >>> nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a >>> separate issue from the exam itself. >>> >>> I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the >>> accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. >>> >>> But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should >>> not be able to bring their concerns before the court. >>> >>> I do have some questions. >>> >>> First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that >>> they >>> were "top tier". Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? >>> Was it close, within a point or two? How did the plaintiff do on the >>> questions that are not the puzzles? Much of the exam is perfectly >>> understandable by a blind person. Perhaps there is another reason why >>> they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed >>> to enquiry? >>> >>> Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my >>> school and others. I was accepted into my school of choice on a >>> provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full >>> admittance. Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under >>> such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they >>> had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, >>> and even sat in on a class or two and met with students, professors, and >>> other staff so that when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was >>> remembered. However, given all this it was very hard for me and >>> countless others to get into law school. The selection committees look >>> at >>> the whole person so in the words of one professor, "There has to be >>> something that says to us, you belong in the profession of law." What >>> did the rest of this person's package look like? >>> >>> >>> So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely >>> prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to >>> enter. I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is >>> for the court to rule upon. I am saying that placing all of the blame at >>> the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. >>> >>> With respect, >>> >>> >>> Robert D. Dittman >>> Student Attorney >>> St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil >>> Clinic) >>> 2507 N.W. 36th Street >>> San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 >>> Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 >>> Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu >>> >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any >>> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may >>> contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized >>> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not >>> the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail >>> and destroy all copies of the original message. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these >>> United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider >>> becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame >>> discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, >>> is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take >>> them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT >>> will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>>> I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the >>>> LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. >>>> Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having >>>> accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate >>>> material on it. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Michael. >>>>>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>>>>> into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>>>>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>>>>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>>>>> Good luck >>>>>> Beth Taurasi >>>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Greetings! all: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>>>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>>>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>>>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>>>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>>>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>>>>> does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>>>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>>>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>>>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>>>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>>>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>>>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>>>>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >>>>> oose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks >>>> andefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40hf-law.com Hirschler Fleischer, A Professional Corporation Confidentiality Note: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by returning it to the sender and delete this copy from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to Treasury Department Circular 230, tax advice contained in this communication and any attachments are not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code, nor may any such tax advice be used to promote, market or recommend to any person any transaction or matter that is the subject of this communication and any attachments. From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 17:19:45 2011 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 18:19:45 +0100 Subject: [blindlaw] US Law Books Message-ID: Dear Marina, Thanks very much. I'm interested in federal law, constitutional law, insurance law and administrative law books. Thanks very much for the recommendations. Obviously if any of these are available online, through e.g. westlaw or lexis sites etc. that'd be great. Best, Ger From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Thu Jun 23 20:20:31 2011 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:20:31 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> They may be late, but they've done a pretty impressive job from what I've seen. Microsoft has done very little as far as building in accessibility. The Iphone and Ipad are fantastic. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 6:23 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? How usable is a Mac with a screen reader? Isn't Apple a little late to the party, on the issue of accessibility? It took a Court case to force Apple to make the Ipod accessible. I suppose, better late than never. Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 www.emplmntattorney.com Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:01 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I want to try your MAC, Patty! See you at the blind lawyers' meeting. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Patti Gregory Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 6:39 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I will have my mmac at convention. Do you want to try it? Patti S. Gregory-Chang NFB, Scholarship Comm. Chair Sent from my iPhone On Jun 19, 2011, at 5:02 PM, "William Burley, III" wrote: > Hi Patti. I think my general accessibility issues is just wanting to > find something that works consistently and I'm having more and more > consistent trouble with Jaws. I'm not generally sure what to ask > other than what the other gentleman asked as far as applications and > the useability when working > in an industry that is heavily Windows based. > > Thanks for any info. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access > issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Burley, III" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > >> Hello all! >> >> >> >> Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly >> switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws >> and accessibility. >> >> >> >> If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons >> to using this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you >> make that work? >> What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so >> many others using Windows products? >> >> >> >> Thanks for any information! >> >> >> >> >> >> William Burley, III >> >> (713) 614-3322 >> >> William.burley3 at gmail.com >> >> >> >> Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! >> >> Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more >> details. >> >> >> >> Need better internet service for cheaper? >> >> Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up >> TODAY! >> >> >> >> Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 > gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%4 0ed.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40emplmnta ttorney.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Thu Jun 23 20:20:31 2011 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:20:31 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <7139F969-95BD-40DD-A299-24ECDDF87E32@sbcglobal.net> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <7139F969-95BD-40DD-A299-24ECDDF87E32@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <000001cc31e3$00c96e80$025c4b80$@wiennergould.com> Here here! ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 6:51 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? On the contrary; Apple is the FIRST company to include a superbly functional screenreader as part of its OS. While some may pay an extra $1200 for Jaws before being able to use their newly purchased computer, or must apply to an agency for it, Apple's Macintosh products--and now all of their newer I-devices--come ready to speak right out of the box. Apple is, in my opinion, the party. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com From sbg at sbgaal.com Thu Jun 23 20:30:47 2011 From: sbg at sbgaal.com (Shannon Geihsler) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 15:30:47 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> Message-ID: Can you please tell me where I can get easy to acess and read instructions on how to use voice over on the I-phone and I-pad? Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, TX 79401 Phone: 763-3999 Fax: 749-3752 This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel K. Beitz Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:21 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? They may be late, but they've done a pretty impressive job from what I've seen. Microsoft has done very little as far as building in accessibility. The Iphone and Ipad are fantastic. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 6:23 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? How usable is a Mac with a screen reader? Isn't Apple a little late to the party, on the issue of accessibility? It took a Court case to force Apple to make the Ipod accessible. I suppose, better late than never. Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 www.emplmntattorney.com Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:01 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I want to try your MAC, Patty! See you at the blind lawyers' meeting. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Patti Gregory Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 6:39 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I will have my mmac at convention. Do you want to try it? Patti S. Gregory-Chang NFB, Scholarship Comm. Chair Sent from my iPhone On Jun 19, 2011, at 5:02 PM, "William Burley, III" wrote: > Hi Patti. I think my general accessibility issues is just wanting to > find something that works consistently and I'm having more and more > consistent trouble with Jaws. I'm not generally sure what to ask > other than what the other gentleman asked as far as applications and > the useability when working > in an industry that is heavily Windows based. > > Thanks for any info. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access > issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Burley, III" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > >> Hello all! >> >> >> >> Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly >> switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws >> and accessibility. >> >> >> >> If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons >> to using this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you >> make that work? >> What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so >> many others using Windows products? >> >> >> >> Thanks for any information! >> >> >> >> >> >> William Burley, III >> >> (713) 614-3322 >> >> William.burley3 at gmail.com >> >> >> >> Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! >> >> Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more >> details. >> >> >> >> Need better internet service for cheaper? >> >> Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up >> TODAY! >> >> >> >> Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 > gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%4 0ed.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40emplmnta ttorney.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 23 20:35:24 2011 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:35:24 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> Message-ID: Microsoft has done nothing to include accessibility in its OS because many blind people spoke up, many of them FROM the NFB, and said, "No, no, don't fool with Jaws, let the experts handle it, we don't want some non-blindness-related company building our screen readers." So, I M H O, in this instance, we reap what we sow. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 23 20:36:19 2011 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:36:19 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> Message-ID: <375FDE6C-5078-41C8-A776-FBB34C04AE6A@sbcglobal.net> Join the VIPhone Google group for the best info. also, try www.icanworkthisthing.com or www.macessibility.com for starters. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From dandrews at visi.com Thu Jun 23 20:57:15 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 15:57:15 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> Message-ID: <4E03A8AB.7070104@visi.com> Mark: Not to seem argumentative, but I think your statement doesn't accurately state what has and is going on. It is not true that Microsoft includes no accessibility in its OS. It is true to say that Microsoft includes no full-featured screen reader or other technology in Windows. Some years ago disabled customers, and assistive technology companies urged Microsoft to leave AT up to the experts, and they agreed. That was about 15 years ago though, and people might not take the same position today. At the time it seemed like the correct recommendation. Microsoft in fact has more people working on accessibility then any other tech company. They are not perfect, far from it, but still do a lot to make many of their applications accessible to blind and other persons. I have heard rumors that Narrator, and other applications will be substantially improved in Windows 9, but at this point it is just a rumor I have heard, and I have no idea if it is true or not. I would guess that it is though, and that Apple and its efforts are pressuring Microsoft. Apple has done a good job and should be applauded. However, there is no competition in the Apple arena for assistive technology, and there likely will never be any. There is competition in Windows, and in general it brings out more features and capabilities and faster improvements. There isn't a right or wrong answer -- we just have to make the best of each situation. Dave p.s. Do you really want to be completely reliant on Microsoft for your screen reader? If they come out with a free, full-featured competitor, it is likely to kill off most, if not all the competition! On 6/23/2011 3:35 PM, Mark BurningHawk wrote: > Microsoft has done nothing to include accessibility in its OS because many blind people spoke up, many of them FROM the NFB, and said, "No, no, don't fool with Jaws, let the experts handle it, we don't want some non-blindness-related company building our screen readers." So, I M H O, in this instance, we reap what we sow. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 23 21:03:04 2011 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:03:04 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <4E03A8AB.7070104@visi.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> <4E03A8AB.7070104@visi.com> Message-ID: <57770900-16A7-40E7-A20A-9FB71449579A@sbcglobal.net> You're applying capitalist values to a poverty-ridden community. In a fair market, you're right; more competition is better, drives down the price, brings out more innovations. The blind are not a fair market. As long as universal access is not followed, the blind will always be dependent--on the agencies, on the workplaces, on whomever can afford Jaws or its like. Apple is practicing universal access, or at least they're asymptotically close to it. MS is not. Making software accessible is like building a gas tank into a car and saying you help get great mileage. As long as blind people have to pay more for a computer to use it than a sighted person, there is room for improvement. If MS comes out with the equivalent of VoiceOver, following universal access guidelines, then anything else is just a cop-out. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Thu Jun 23 21:04:01 2011 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:04:01 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <4E03A8AB.7070104@visi.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> <4E03A8AB.7070104@visi.com> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EE07@EVS02.central.pima.gov> This is likely something unique to where I practice (public defender in Arizona), but what would be most useful to me does not seem to be offered by any company, for either platform - a bi-lingual screen reader. (In this case, Spanish and English, but there would be other possible needs for other courts and professions, I would guess.) Has anyone heard if this will ever be a possibility? Every screen reader I have researched will do one or the other, but not both.... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 1:57 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? Mark: Not to seem argumentative, but I think your statement doesn't accurately state what has and is going on. It is not true that Microsoft includes no accessibility in its OS. It is true to say that Microsoft includes no full-featured screen reader or other technology in Windows. Some years ago disabled customers, and assistive technology companies urged Microsoft to leave AT up to the experts, and they agreed. That was about 15 years ago though, and people might not take the same position today. At the time it seemed like the correct recommendation. Microsoft in fact has more people working on accessibility then any other tech company. They are not perfect, far from it, but still do a lot to make many of their applications accessible to blind and other persons. I have heard rumors that Narrator, and other applications will be substantially improved in Windows 9, but at this point it is just a rumor I have heard, and I have no idea if it is true or not. I would guess that it is though, and that Apple and its efforts are pressuring Microsoft. Apple has done a good job and should be applauded. However, there is no competition in the Apple arena for assistive technology, and there likely will never be any. There is competition in Windows, and in general it brings out more features and capabilities and faster improvements. There isn't a right or wrong answer -- we just have to make the best of each situation. Dave p.s. Do you really want to be completely reliant on Microsoft for your screen reader? If they come out with a free, full-featured competitor, it is likely to kill off most, if not all the competition! On 6/23/2011 3:35 PM, Mark BurningHawk wrote: > Microsoft has done nothing to include accessibility in its OS because many blind people spoke up, many of them FROM the NFB, and said, "No, no, don't fool with Jaws, let the experts handle it, we don't want some non-blindness-related company building our screen readers." So, I M H O, in this instance, we reap what we sow. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 23 21:31:54 2011 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:31:54 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EE07@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> <4E03A8AB.7070104@visi.com> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EE07@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <9136D2C6-7191-40C1-82E2-739619D3B64D@sbcglobal.net> I believe that, right now with Snow Leopard and certainly with Lion, you can get VoiceOver in Spanish, English and a few other languages. Having both a Spanish and English version running at the same time might be different, but you should be able to switch languages. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Thu Jun 23 21:38:39 2011 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:38:39 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <9136D2C6-7191-40C1-82E2-739619D3B64D@sbcglobal.net> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> <4E03A8AB.7070104@visi.com> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EE07@EVS02.central.pima.gov> <9136D2C6-7191-40C1-82E2-739619D3B64D@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EE09@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Some day (smile)! Out here, we all grew up speaking and typing Spanglish, regardless of family background - guess that's why I want to hear the same from my computer. But I will try to see if I can toggle back and forth on what I currently have WinZoom) and will be getting (JAWS) at some point. I need Spanish (only, no bi-lingual) mostly for client letters, but it is a bit disturbing to hear the horrendous mispronunciations of names and places in pleadings that are other-wise in English. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 2:32 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I believe that, right now with Snow Leopard and certainly with Lion, you can get VoiceOver in Spanish, English and a few other languages. Having both a Spanish and English version running at the same time might be different, but you should be able to switch languages. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From lists at zufelt.ca Thu Jun 23 21:46:15 2011 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 17:46:15 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EE09@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> <4E03A8AB.7070104@visi.com> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EE07@EVS02.central.pima.gov> <9136D2C6-7191-40C1-82E2-739619D3B64D@sbcglobal.net> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EE09@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: Good evening, The problem is that a screen-reader doesn't know which parts of a document are in which language. The exception to this are documents structured using technologies like html. In html it is possible to explicitly declare the language of a part of the document.

some text in french

Some text in spanish

It really isn't the fault of assistive technology if it cannot automatically detect the language of a document when the language is not explicitly declared. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-06-23, at 5:38 PM, Susan Kelly wrote: > Some day (smile)! Out here, we all grew up speaking and typing > Spanglish, regardless of family background - guess that's why I want to > hear the same from my computer. But I will try to see if I can toggle > back and forth on what I currently have WinZoom) and will be getting > (JAWS) at some point. I need Spanish (only, no bi-lingual) mostly for > client letters, but it is a bit disturbing to hear the horrendous > mispronunciations of names and places in pleadings that are other-wise > in English. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 2:32 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I believe that, right now with Snow Leopard and certainly with Lion, you > can get VoiceOver in Spanish, English and a few other languages. Having > both a Spanish and English version running at the same time might be > different, but you should be able to switch languages. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 > pima.gov > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From dravant at ameritech.net Thu Jun 23 22:48:39 2011 From: dravant at ameritech.net (Denise Avant) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 17:48:39 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> Message-ID: <628B9447-B095-4838-8E45-CA727C03A8CB@ameritech.net> hi, you might want to try looking for the web page from vision australia. initially, the organization did a lot of small tutorials on the iphone, which is very similar to the ipad. they now do smaller tutorials on voiceover and the mac. absent that, you may wish to go to blindcooltech.com where you will find all kinds of voiceovr apple related information. On Jun 23, 2011, at 3:30 PM, Shannon Geihsler wrote: > Can you please tell me where I can get easy to acess and read instructions > on how to use voice over on the I-phone and I-pad? > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > Lubbock, TX 79401 > Phone: 763-3999 > Fax: 749-3752 > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or > attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express > permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Daniel K. Beitz > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:21 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > They may be late, but they've done a pretty impressive job from what I've > seen. Microsoft has done very little as far as building in accessibility. > The Iphone and Ipad are fantastic. > > ------------------------------------------- > Daniel K. Beitz > Wienner & Gould, P.C. > 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 > Rochester, MI 48307 > Phone: (248) 841-9405 > Fax: (248) 652-2729 > dbeitz at wiennergould.com > This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages > attached > to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If > you are > not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this > email > to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, > copying, > or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or > attached to > this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in > error, > please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by > telephoning > us at (248) 841-9400. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 6:23 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > How usable is a Mac with a screen reader? Isn't Apple a little late to the > party, on the issue of accessibility? It took a Court case to force Apple to > make the Ipod accessible. I suppose, better late than never. > > > Respectfully, > > > > Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > > Newport Beach, California 92660 > > T: (949) 752-0101 > > F: (949) 257-4756 > > M: (949) 466-7238 > > www.emplmntattorney.com > > Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:01 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I want to try your MAC, Patty! See you at the blind lawyers' meeting. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Patti Gregory > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 6:39 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I will have my mmac at convention. Do you want to try it? > > Patti S. Gregory-Chang > NFB, Scholarship Comm. Chair > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 19, 2011, at 5:02 PM, "William Burley, III" > wrote: > >> Hi Patti. I think my general accessibility issues is just wanting to >> find something that works consistently and I'm having more and more >> consistent trouble with Jaws. I'm not generally sure what to ask >> other than what the other gentleman asked as far as applications and >> the useability when > working >> in an industry that is heavily Windows based. >> >> Thanks for any info. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang >> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:46 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? >> >> I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access >> issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "William Burley, III" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? >> >> >>> Hello all! >>> >>> >>> >>> Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering > possibly >>> switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws >>> and accessibility. >>> >>> >>> >>> If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons >>> to using this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you >>> make that work? >>> What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so >>> many others using Windows products? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for any information! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> William Burley, III >>> >>> (713) 614-3322 >>> >>> William.burley3 at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, > L.L.C.! >>> >>> Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more >>> details. >>> >>> >>> >>> Need better internet service for cheaper? >>> >>> Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up >>> TODAY! >>> >>> >>> >>> Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 >> gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n > et > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%4 > 0ed.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40emplmnta > ttorney.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo > uld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net From dricken at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 08:17:58 2011 From: dricken at gmail.com (Kendrick Kennedy) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 03:17:58 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Multi-performance Test Message-ID: Hi All, I am currently preparing for the MS Bar Exam. I am reviewing the BarBri video on the multi performance test (MPT). I will be typing and reading the information on a computer. Does anyone know or remember if the case files, task memos and library information is separated into manageable files or is the MPT problem combined into one document on the actual exam? If the MPT is in one document did the pages line up for you to search the pages as BarBri stated you should do to maximize time to complete the MPT assignment? Any information on this will be greatly appreciated. -- *Best Regards,* * * *Kendrick R. Kennedy, J.D. * * * From AZNOR99 at aol.com Fri Jun 24 11:08:45 2011 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 07:08:45 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Multi-performance Test Message-ID: <379a7.2ab30ca.3b35ca3d@aol.com> Hi, I took the Bar Exam several years ago (my do I feel old all of a sudden) and at that time the MPT was split into manageable files. The cases were one set, the assignment memo another, and the Library a third including the statutes, etc. I'd suggest you contact your State Bar Reasonable Accommodation Coordinator and ask them how many files will be included in that portion of the exam. They may be able to provide you the documents in the way you need them most. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 6/24/2011 4:19:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dricken at gmail.com writes: Hi All, I am currently preparing for the MS Bar Exam. I am reviewing the BarBri video on the multi performance test (MPT). I will be typing and reading the information on a computer. Does anyone know or remember if the case files, task memos and library information is separated into manageable files or is the MPT problem combined into one document on the actual exam? If the MPT is in one document did the pages line up for you to search the pages as BarBri stated you should do to maximize time to complete the MPT assignment? Any information on this will be greatly appreciated. -- *Best Regards,* * * *Kendrick R. Kennedy, J.D. * * * _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 24 12:06:35 2011 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 05:06:35 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action Message-ID: <00a701cc3267$2a6df010$6b01a8c0@server> http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/us_news_likely_to_change_law_school_ranking_methodology/? US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action Posted Jun 20, 2011 10:17 AM CDT By Mark Hansen U.S. News & World Report will probably change its law school ranking methodology to reflect the new and more detailed job placement information the ABA's law school accrediting arm has conditionally agreed to start collecting. If more detailed information on the types and status of legal jobs becomes available, U.S. News will collect it, publish it and-where applicable-factor it in to its annual Best Law School rankings, Bob Morse, the magazine's director of data research, wrote at Morse Code. Once the information is available, the magazine will use its own law school statistical surveys this fall to collect and eventually publish the complete set of more detailed jobs and employment data from each law school for last year's graduates, Morse said. "When we gather this richer data set, we will be able to make a more exact determination of how our ranking methodology will change," he wrote. This month, the council of the ABA's Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar, the accrediting body for U.S. law schools, conditionally approved changes (PDF posted by Law School Transparency) to its law school questionnaire requiring law schools to report more detailed post-graduate employment information. The changes hinge on a formal agreement with the National Association for Law Placement, which collects the information, to turn the data over to the ABA. Under the revised questionnaire, law schools will be required to report how many graduates are employed in jobs requiring a law degree; how many are in jobs in which a law degree is preferred; how many are in another professional or nonprofessional job; and how many are in jobs whose type is unknown. The data is broken down by job type, including law firms of various sizes; businesses and industry; government; public interest; clerkship; academia and unknown. Law schools also must disclose how many graduates are working in full-time or part-time jobs, whether those jobs are short-term or long-term and how many of them are funded by the school from which the job-holder graduated. Schools must also report how many graduates are unemployed or pursuing a graduate degree, and how many of the unemployed are looking or not looking for a job. They also must identify the top three states in which their graduates are employed, the number of graduates working in each state and the number of graduates working overseas. ABA Journal.com Weekly newsletter From Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov Fri Jun 24 12:10:29 2011 From: Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov (Norman, Gary C. (CMS/OSORA)) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 08:10:29 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] [blind law] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action In-Reply-To: <00a701cc3267$2a6df010$6b01a8c0@server> References: <00a701cc3267$2a6df010$6b01a8c0@server> Message-ID: <5F7E6855B3549A4096D6B30DCADC2D045B44782113@PL-EMSMB4.ees.hhs.gov> Since the ABA has "provisionally approved" these changes, it might be worthwhile to argue that the survey should also endeavor to capture employment related data about law students with disabilities and lawyers with disabilities. Sincerely, Gary -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Clark Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 8:07 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/us_news_likely_to_change_law_school_ranking_methodology/? US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action Posted Jun 20, 2011 10:17 AM CDT By Mark Hansen U.S. News & World Report will probably change its law school ranking methodology to reflect the new and more detailed job placement information the ABA's law school accrediting arm has conditionally agreed to start collecting. If more detailed information on the types and status of legal jobs becomes available, U.S. News will collect it, publish it and-where applicable-factor it in to its annual Best Law School rankings, Bob Morse, the magazine's director of data research, wrote at Morse Code. Once the information is available, the magazine will use its own law school statistical surveys this fall to collect and eventually publish the complete set of more detailed jobs and employment data from each law school for last year's graduates, Morse said. "When we gather this richer data set, we will be able to make a more exact determination of how our ranking methodology will change," he wrote. This month, the council of the ABA's Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar, the accrediting body for U.S. law schools, conditionally approved changes (PDF posted by Law School Transparency) to its law school questionnaire requiring law schools to report more detailed post-graduate employment information. The changes hinge on a formal agreement with the National Association for Law Placement, which collects the information, to turn the data over to the ABA. Under the revised questionnaire, law schools will be required to report how many graduates are employed in jobs requiring a law degree; how many are in jobs in which a law degree is preferred; how many are in another professional or nonprofessional job; and how many are in jobs whose type is unknown. The data is broken down by job type, including law firms of various sizes; businesses and industry; government; public interest; clerkship; academia and unknown. Law schools also must disclose how many graduates are working in full-time or part-time jobs, whether those jobs are short-term or long-term and how many of them are funded by the school from which the job-holder graduated. Schools must also report how many graduates are unemployed or pursuing a graduate degree, and how many of the unemployed are looking or not looking for a job. They also must identify the top three states in which their graduates are employed, the number of graduates working in each state and the number of graduates working overseas. ABA Journal.com Weekly newsletter _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gary.norman%40cms.hhs.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Jun 24 15:48:39 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:48:39 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DOJ CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES SECTION SPECIAL LEGAL COUNSEL, GS-15, vacancy announcement Message-ID: Link: http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/oarmvacspeciallitcoun.htm Text: UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES SECTION SPECIAL LEGAL COUNSEL, GS-15 [X] About the Office: The U.S. Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division is seeking one or more experienced attorneys for the position of Special Legal Counsel (SLC) in the Educational Opportunities Section (EOS) in Washington, D.C. The Division is primarily responsible for enforcing federal statutes, regulations and executive orders that prohibit, among other things, unlawful discrimination in voting, education, employment, housing, police services, public accommodations and facilities, and federally funded and conducted programs. EOS enforces federal statutes which prohibit public school officials from engaging in discriminatory practices. These statutes include Title IV of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, national origin, sex, and religion in public schools; the Equal Educational Opportunities Act of 1974, which, among other things, requires state education agencies and school districts to ensure that appropriate services are provided to limited English proficient students; and Titles II and III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability in public and private educational institutions. In addition, EOS has certain enforcement responsibilities for Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Title IX of the Education Amendments Act of 1972, and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. The Section may initiate litigation, intervene or serve as amicus in private suits that allege violations of education-related anti-discrimination statutes and the Fourteenth Amendment. EOS works closely with the Department of Education (ED), including representing ED in federal court. Responsibilities and Opportunity Offered: The SLC will serve on the Section's management team and be responsible, under the supervision of the Chief, for developing and supervising investigations and litigation addressing all aspects of the Section's enforcement duties. The SLC will provide advice and assistance to other attorneys and monitor the work of less experienced attorneys to ensure that they are provided appropriate guidance and review. Together with the Chief and Deputy Chiefs, the SLC will assist in planning and selecting matters for investigation, litigation and policy guidance, and determining the strategy and tactics to be employed. The SLC will monitor developments in the areas of education law and other relevant federal law and procedure related to the work of the Section, and keep the Section informed of significant issues and developments. The SLC will assist the Section's management in developing guidance and policies concerning the Section's areas of enforcement and with commenting on proposed legislation, policy, guidance, and testimony. The SLC will also assist with the management of the Section by assuming responsibility for certain administrative and operational tasks, engaging in outreach to Section stakeholders (including representing the Section in meetings with other federal agencies and at education-related conferences and convenings.)The SLC will be expected to handle other special assignments to be made by the Chief to assist in operation of the Section. Qualifications: Required Qualifications: Applicants must possess a J.D. degree, be an active member of the bar in good standing (any jurisdiction), have a minimum of five (5) years post-J.D. substantive experience, including significant experience conducting litigation, negotiating settlements in civil rights cases, and investigating complaints of discrimination, including in the Section's enforcement areas. Applicants must demonstrate passion and commitment to the work of the Section; exceptional interpersonal, leadership, and organizational skills; superior oral and written communication skills; solid professional judgment; professional and personal integrity; be a demonstrated team player; and be able to excel in a fast-paced, highly demanding environment. Applicants must demonstrate outstanding supervisory and mentorship skills, including the ability to manage a diverse workforce. Preferred Qualifications: Experience handling discrimination and harassment cases in the education context is preferred, including: (1) experience litigating discrimination and harassment cases involving educational institutions, including handling discovery, litigation strategy, motion practice, trial preparation, and trial; (2) experience negotiating settlements in discrimination or harassment cases involving school districts; (3) experience investigating allegations of discrimination and harassment in schools, including interviewing witnesses, reviewing documents, and reviewing applicable case law to assess the merits of a case; (4) experience supervising and mentoring attorneys in the development of and preparation for litigation; (5) experience drafting regulations, guidance documents and other policy directives, including experience working with diverse coalitions on legal and/or policy initiatives, and (6) substantive knowledge of and expertise in education discrimination law. In addition, while not required, preferred candidates will have relevant civil rights experience outside of the core competencies of the Section, but within the critical responsibilities of the Division, such that the candidate could play a supporting role in the Division's initiatives. Travel: The position requires extended hours and a moderate amount of travel. Salary Information: Current salary and years of specialized experience will determine the appropriate salary level within the GS-15 range ($123,758 to $155,500 per annum). Final selection for these positions will be subject to budgetary funding constraints. Location: Washington, DC Relocation Expenses: Relocation expenses are not authorized for this position. Submission Process and Deadline Date To apply, please submit a resume, cover letter and a writing sample (a brief or comparable analytic legal exposition that is your work product) to: Diane Turner Phone: 202-514-3934 Fax: 202-514-6603 Email: crd.attyvacancies at usdoj.gov No telephone calls please. The position will remain open until filled, but applications must be submitted no later than July 1, 2011. Internet Sites: Other attorney vacancy announcements can be found at: www.usdoj.gov/oarm/attvacancies.html Department Policies: The U.S. Department of Justice is an Equal Opportunity/Reasonable Accommodation Employer. Except where otherwise provided by law, there will be no discrimination because of color, race, religion, national origin, political affiliation, marital status, disability (physical or mental), age, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, genetic information, status as a parent, membership or non-membership in an employee organization, on the basis of personal favoritism, or any non merit factor. The Department of Justice welcomes and encourages applications from persons with physical and mental disabilities. The Department is firmly committed to satisfying its affirmative obligations under the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, to ensure that persons with disabilities have every opportunity to be hired and advanced on the basis of merit within the Department of Justice. This agency provides reasonable accommodation to applicants with disabilities where appropriate. If you need a reasonable accommodation for any part of the application and hiring process, please notify the agency. Determinations on requests for reasonable accommodation will be made on a case-by-case basis. It is the policy of the Department to achieve a drug-free workplace and persons selected for employment will be required to pass a drug test which screens for illegal drug use prior to final appointment. Employment is also contingent upon the completion and satisfactory adjudication of a background investigation. Only U.S. citizens are eligible for employment with the Executive Office for Immigration Review and the United States Attorneys' Offices. Unless otherwise indicated in a particular job advertisement, non-U.S. Citizens may apply for employment with other organizations, but should be advised that appointments of non-U.S. Citizens are extremely rare; such appointments would be possible only if necessary to accomplish the Department's mission and would be subject to strict security requirements. Applicants who hold dual citizenship in the U.S. and another country will be considered on a case-by-case basis. There is no formal rating system for applying veterans' preference to attorney appointments in the excepted service; however, the Department of Justice considers veterans' preference eligibility as a positive factor in attorney hiring. Applicants eligible for veterans' preference must include that information in their cover letter or resume and attach supporting documentation (e.g., the DD 214, Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty and other supporting documentation) to their submissions. Although the "point" system is not used, per se, applicants eligible to claim 10-point preference must submit Standard Form (SF) 15, Application for 10-Point Veteran Preference, and submit the supporting documentation required for the specific type of preference claimed (visit the OPM website, www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/SF15.pdffor a copy of SF 15, which lists the types of 10-point preferences and the required supporting document(s).Applicants should note that SF 15 requires supporting documentation associated with service-connected disabilities or receipt of nonservice-connected disability pensions to be dated 1991 or later except in the case of service members submitting official statements or retirement orders from a branch of the Armed Forces showing that his or her retirement was due to a permanent service-connected disability or that he/she was transferred to the permanent disability retired list (the statement or retirement orders must indicate that the disability is 10% or more). * * * The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of information contained in this vacancy announcement. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Picture (Device Independent Bitmap) 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3513 bytes Desc: Picture (Device Independent Bitmap) 1.jpg URL: From rumpole at roadrunner.com Fri Jun 24 20:10:59 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:10:59 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. attorney posting - Kansas - Uncompensated Message-ID: * SPECIAL ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (SERVES WITHOUT COMPENSATION) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF KANSAS VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 11-KS-SAUSA-06 Applications must be received by July 22, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/sasusa-crm-vac-annwichita2011.htm Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From rumpole at roadrunner.com Sat Jun 25 12:18:02 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 08:18:02 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Attorney Posting - Oklahoma - Uncompensated Message-ID: * SPECIAL ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (UNCOMPENSATED) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF OKLAHOMA ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 11-OKW-10-S Applications must be received by July 15, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/11-okw-10-s.htm Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Jun 25 12:27:46 2011 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 08:27:46 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] [blind law] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action In-Reply-To: <5F7E6855B3549A4096D6B30DCADC2D045B44782113@PL-EMSMB4.ees.hhs.gov> References: <00a701cc3267$2a6df010$6b01a8c0@server> <5F7E6855B3549A4096D6B30DCADC2D045B44782113@PL-EMSMB4.ees.hhs.gov> Message-ID: <82D8F2AEB66749FABB2331081389DB91@StevePC> Does anyone know the percentage of blind attorneys who are currently employed? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman, Gary C. (CMS/OSORA)" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blind law] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action > Since the ABA has "provisionally approved" these changes, it might be > worthwhile to argue that the survey should also endeavor to capture > employment related data about law students with disabilities and lawyers > with disabilities. > > > > Sincerely, > Gary > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Dennis Clark > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 8:07 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking > Methodology in Wake of ABA Action > > > http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/us_news_likely_to_change_law_school_ranking_methodology/? > > US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA > Action > Posted Jun 20, 2011 10:17 AM CDT > By Mark Hansen > > U.S. News & World Report will probably change its law school ranking > methodology to reflect the new and more detailed job placement information > the ABA's law school accrediting arm has conditionally agreed to start > collecting. > If more detailed information on the types and status of legal jobs becomes > available, U.S. News will collect it, publish it and-where > applicable-factor > it in to its annual Best Law School rankings, Bob Morse, the magazine's > director of data research, wrote at Morse Code. > Once the information is available, the magazine will use its own law > school > statistical surveys this fall to collect and eventually publish the > complete > set of more detailed jobs and employment data from each law school for > last > year's graduates, Morse said. > "When we gather this richer data set, we will be able to make a more exact > determination of how our ranking methodology will change," he wrote. > This month, the council of the ABA's Section of Legal Education and > Admissions to the Bar, the accrediting body for U.S. law schools, > conditionally approved changes (PDF posted by Law School Transparency) to > its law school questionnaire requiring law schools to report more detailed > post-graduate employment information. The changes hinge on a formal > agreement with the National Association for Law Placement, which collects > the information, to turn the data over to the ABA. > Under the revised questionnaire, law schools will be required to report > how > many graduates are employed in jobs requiring a law degree; how many are > in > jobs in which a law degree is preferred; how many are in another > professional or nonprofessional job; and how many are in jobs whose type > is > unknown. The data is broken down by job type, including law firms of > various > sizes; businesses and industry; government; public interest; clerkship; > academia and unknown. > Law schools also must disclose how many graduates are working in full-time > or part-time jobs, whether those jobs are short-term or long-term and how > many of them are funded by the school from which the job-holder graduated. > Schools must also report how many graduates are unemployed or pursuing a > graduate degree, and how many of the unemployed are looking or not looking > for a job. They also must identify the top three states in which their > graduates are employed, the number of graduates working in each state and > the number of graduates working overseas. > > ABA Journal.com Weekly newsletter > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gary.norman%40cms.hhs.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.901 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3722 - Release Date: 06/23/11 14:34:00 -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.901 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3725 - Release Date: 06/25/11 02:34:00 From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Jun 27 16:54:50 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:54:50 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] [blind law] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action In-Reply-To: <82D8F2AEB66749FABB2331081389DB91@StevePC> References: <00a701cc3267$2a6df010$6b01a8c0@server> <5F7E6855B3549A4096D6B30DCADC2D045B44782113@PL-EMSMB4.ees.hhs.gov> <82D8F2AEB66749FABB2331081389DB91@StevePC> Message-ID: I do not believe that anyone has good data on the percentage of blind attorneys who are employed or even the broader category of attorneys with disabilities who are employed. We don't even have great data on how many attorneys with disabilities are employed. We, individually, of course, have our gut feelings about the question. Mine is that many blind attorneys who are employed are disproportionately in comparison with their sighted peers practicing law on behalf of governments or as solo practitioners. It could be a project of the National Association of Blind Lawyers to conduct a survey of blind attorneys through state bar associations, but even then, it may not be statistically accurate given the voluntary nature of responses. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 5:28 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blind law] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action Does anyone know the percentage of blind attorneys who are currently employed? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman, Gary C. (CMS/OSORA)" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blind law] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action > Since the ABA has "provisionally approved" these changes, it might be > worthwhile to argue that the survey should also endeavor to capture > employment related data about law students with disabilities and > lawyers with disabilities. > > > > Sincerely, > Gary > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Dennis Clark > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 8:07 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking > Methodology in Wake of ABA Action > > > http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/us_news_likely_to_change_law_school_ranking_methodology/? > > US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA > Action Posted Jun 20, 2011 10:17 AM CDT By Mark Hansen > > U.S. News & World Report will probably change its law school ranking > methodology to reflect the new and more detailed job placement > information the ABA's law school accrediting arm has conditionally > agreed to start collecting. > If more detailed information on the types and status of legal jobs > becomes available, U.S. News will collect it, publish it and-where > applicable-factor it in to its annual Best Law School rankings, Bob > Morse, the magazine's director of data research, wrote at Morse Code. > Once the information is available, the magazine will use its own law > school statistical surveys this fall to collect and eventually publish > the complete set of more detailed jobs and employment data from each > law school for last year's graduates, Morse said. > "When we gather this richer data set, we will be able to make a more > exact determination of how our ranking methodology will change," he wrote. > This month, the council of the ABA's Section of Legal Education and > Admissions to the Bar, the accrediting body for U.S. law schools, > conditionally approved changes (PDF posted by Law School Transparency) > to its law school questionnaire requiring law schools to report more > detailed post-graduate employment information. The changes hinge on a > formal agreement with the National Association for Law Placement, > which collects the information, to turn the data over to the ABA. > Under the revised questionnaire, law schools will be required to > report how many graduates are employed in jobs requiring a law degree; > how many are in jobs in which a law degree is preferred; how many are > in another professional or nonprofessional job; and how many are in > jobs whose type is unknown. The data is broken down by job type, > including law firms of various sizes; businesses and industry; > government; public interest; clerkship; academia and unknown. > Law schools also must disclose how many graduates are working in > full-time or part-time jobs, whether those jobs are short-term or > long-term and how many of them are funded by the school from which the job-holder graduated. > Schools must also report how many graduates are unemployed or pursuing > a graduate degree, and how many of the unemployed are looking or not > looking for a job. They also must identify the top three states in > which their graduates are employed, the number of graduates working in > each state and the number of graduates working overseas. > > ABA Journal.com Weekly newsletter > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gary.norman% > 40cms.hhs.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele > y%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.901 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3722 - Release Date: 06/23/11 14:34:00 From rumpole at roadrunner.com Mon Jun 27 20:03:58 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:03:58 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Office of Inspector General - WDC area Message-ID: <3A995E48D2A74F6E96837933FC61AB52@none8a46117901> * ATTORNEY-ADVISOR GS-905-14/15 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NO. OIG-2011-36 WASHINGTON DC Applications must be submitted no later than August 1, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/gs14-15attyweb.htm Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Tue Jun 28 19:41:45 2011 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] real estate stuff Message-ID: <1309290105.20799.YahooMailClassic@web112405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> This is for those of you who practice in Virginia. I'm a Federal employee and I'm thinking about doing some parttime real estate stuff to earn a little extra money. Specifically, I'm thinking of doing some closings. There's a couple of CLE's from VACLE (one on terms of closing and one on common problems and how to avoid them.) I'm also thinking about doing one on easements and other topics. Furthermore, I plan to read a couple of chapters from the VACLE book on real estate. I figure that if I like doing residential closings parttime, I'd maybe do some deed drafting. So, for those of you who do real estate, what is your advice? Should I do closings parttime? Title searches? Deed drafting? Any tips and suggestions you can give me (including any CLE or other sources to educate myself) would be very much appreciated. Thank you. Mike From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Jun 29 15:33:49 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 10:33:49 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Keyboard command to read comments in Word Message-ID: Help! can anyone on this list tell me the keyboard command to access comments embedded in a Word document? usually, I can get near the highlighted word that refers to a comment , hit the context key, and go to edit comment, and then I can read the comment. However, I am now reading a document that clearly has a comment but for which that technique is not working. any advice much appreciated. Noel Nightingale From withat at msn.com Wed Jun 29 15:44:27 2011 From: withat at msn.com (Johnston) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 08:44:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Keyboard command to read comments in Word References: Message-ID: Control + Shift + apostrophe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nightingale, Noel" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 8:33 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Keyboard command to read comments in Word > Help! can anyone on this list tell me the keyboard command to access > comments embedded in a Word document? usually, I can get near the > highlighted word that refers to a comment , hit the context key, and go to > edit comment, and then I can read the comment. However, I am now reading > a document that clearly has a comment but for which that technique is not > working. any advice much appreciated. > > Noel Nightingale > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/withat%40msn.com > From amatney at hf-law.com Wed Jun 29 15:48:37 2011 From: amatney at hf-law.com (Angela Matney) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 11:48:37 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Keyboard command to read comments in Word In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9E93687A9231064FAD3BBDD80BE19E2B0643FEDD@hfexch1.hirschlerfleischer.com> Are you using JAWS? I seem to recall that control-shift-apostrophe (or, as I find it easier to remember, control-quote, since I'm interested in what the review had to say) brings up a list of comments. Sorry, don't remember the other keystroke off-hand. But JAWS help has a good list of keystrokes related to track-changes. I hope that was somewhat helpful. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:34 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Keyboard command to read comments in Word Help! can anyone on this list tell me the keyboard command to access comments embedded in a Word document? usually, I can get near the highlighted word that refers to a comment , hit the context key, and go to edit comment, and then I can read the comment. However, I am now reading a document that clearly has a comment but for which that technique is not working. any advice much appreciated. Noel Nightingale _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40hf-l aw.com Hirschler Fleischer, A Professional Corporation Confidentiality Note: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by returning it to the sender and delete this copy from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to Treasury Department Circular 230, tax advice contained in this communication and any attachments are not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code, nor may any such tax advice be used to promote, market or recommend to any person any transaction or matter that is the subject of this communication and any attachments. From george.opie at juno.com Wed Jun 29 17:05:17 2011 From: george.opie at juno.com (george.opie at juno.com) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 10:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] Juno Auto Response. Re: blindlaw Digest, Vol 85, Issue 24 Message-ID: I will be unavailable until July 9. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Jun 29 18:11:25 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 13:11:25 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Keyboard command to read comments in Word In-Reply-To: <9E93687A9231064FAD3BBDD80BE19E2B0643FEDD@hfexch1.hirschlerfleischer.com> References: <9E93687A9231064FAD3BBDD80BE19E2B0643FEDD@hfexch1.hirschlerfleischer.com> Message-ID: Thanks for those who responded to my frantic e-mail. I appreciate your help very much as it would have taken a lot longer to find the relevant keyboard command in the JAWS help. Yes, Control-Shift-apostrophe gets to the comments. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angela Matney Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 8:49 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Keyboard command to read comments in Word Are you using JAWS? I seem to recall that control-shift-apostrophe (or, as I find it easier to remember, control-quote, since I'm interested in what the review had to say) brings up a list of comments. Sorry, don't remember the other keystroke off-hand. But JAWS help has a good list of keystrokes related to track-changes. I hope that was somewhat helpful. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:34 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Keyboard command to read comments in Word Help! can anyone on this list tell me the keyboard command to access comments embedded in a Word document? usually, I can get near the highlighted word that refers to a comment , hit the context key, and go to edit comment, and then I can read the comment. However, I am now reading a document that clearly has a comment but for which that technique is not working. any advice much appreciated. Noel Nightingale _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40hf-l aw.com Hirschler Fleischer, A Professional Corporation Confidentiality Note: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by returning it to the sender and delete this copy from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to Treasury Department Circular 230, tax advice contained in this communication and any attachments are not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code, nor may any such tax advice be used to promote, market or recommend to any person any transaction or matter that is the subject of this communication and any attachments. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Wed Jun 29 22:55:17 2011 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 16:55:17 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 NABL Annual Meeting Agenda attached and pasted into body of this message Message-ID: <9D1503013D3848D38EA13799EC73B66E@labarre> AGENDA NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2011 ANNUAL MEETING --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tuesday, July 5, 2011 Panzacola F-2 Ballroom, Level 1 Rosen Shingle Creek Orlando, Florida 12:30 p.m. REGISTRATION 1:00 p.m. WELCOME AND MEETING LOGISTICS Scott C. LaBarre, President, NABL Denver, Colorado 1:10 p.m. THE RIGHT TO ACCESS INFORMATION: From the United States Supreme Court to the World Intellectual Property Organization Daniel F. Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein, Levy, Baltimore Maryland; Scott C. LaBarre, Principal, LaBarre Law Offices P.C., Denver, Colorado 2:10 p.m. PRACTICING LAW AS A BLIND ATTORNEY: How Do They Do That? Timothy J. Elder, Disability Law Fellow, Brown, Goldstein, Levy, Baltimore Maryland; Parnell Diggs, Principal, Diggs Law Firm, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina; Allison deFranco, Director Human Rights and Inclusive Development, BlueLaw International, Washington, DC 2:55 p.m. LINGUISTIC PROFILING: How It Can Help Your Practice Dr. Sheri Wells-Jensen, Associate Professor, Department of English, Bowling Green State University, Bowling Green, Ohio 3:30 p.m. NABL BUSINESS SESSION: Elections and Other Business 3:50 p.m. CHANGING THE LAW THROUGH THE JACOBUS TENBROEK LAW SYMPOSIUM Lou Ann Blake, J.D., tenBroek Law Symposium Coordinator, NFB, Baltimore Maryland 4:00 p.m. HOW THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND IS CHANGING WHAT IT MEANS TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL Charles S. Brown, First Vice-President NABL Arlington, Virginia 4:30 p.m. DOES THE FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT APPLY TO US? Dr. Marc Maurer, President, NFB Baltimore, Maryland 5:00 p.m. ADJOURN 5:00 to 6:30 p.m. NABL RECEPTION (ticketed event) Join us for cocktails and hors d'oeuvres as we celebrate the progress of our organization. Network and meet your fellow blind attorneys and legal professionals. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2011 nabl conference agenda.doc Type: application/msword Size: 31232 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rumpole at roadrunner.com Thu Jun 30 15:08:31 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:08:31 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Attorney posting - West VA. Message-ID: <556BC6E5C5234CF880CEB19FDACFE598@none8a46117901> * ATTORNEY VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF WEST VIRGINIA ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 11-SDWV-02 Applications must be submitted no later than July 15, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/ausavacancyno17.htm Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Jun 30 17:00:11 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:00:11 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: 2L Diversity Fellowship Announcement Message-ID: Law students: See link below to a diversity fellowship with a Seattle firm. http://www.riddellwilliams.com/diversity/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: RW 2012 2L Diversity Fellowship.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 72850 bytes Desc: RW 2012 2L Diversity Fellowship.pdf URL: From sbg at sbgaal.com Thu Jun 30 20:07:06 2011 From: sbg at sbgaal.com (Shannon Geihsler) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 15:07:06 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 NABL Annual Meeting Agenda attached and pasted intobody of this message In-Reply-To: <9D1503013D3848D38EA13799EC73B66E@labarre> References: <9D1503013D3848D38EA13799EC73B66E@labarre> Message-ID: <1AC7CC5F16B945B582E1A2E65967E6BF@HPLaptop> Will there be a later recording or web cast of the scheduled lectures and discussions? Thanks, Shannon Geihsler Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, TX 79401 Phone: 763-3999 Fax: 749-3752 This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 5:55 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 NABL Annual Meeting Agenda attached and pasted intobody of this message AGENDA NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2011 ANNUAL MEETING ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Tuesday, July 5, 2011 Panzacola F-2 Ballroom, Level 1 Rosen Shingle Creek Orlando, Florida 12:30 p.m. REGISTRATION 1:00 p.m. WELCOME AND MEETING LOGISTICS Scott C. LaBarre, President, NABL Denver, Colorado 1:10 p.m. THE RIGHT TO ACCESS INFORMATION: From the United States Supreme Court to the World Intellectual Property Organization Daniel F. Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein, Levy, Baltimore Maryland; Scott C. LaBarre, Principal, LaBarre Law Offices P.C., Denver, Colorado 2:10 p.m. PRACTICING LAW AS A BLIND ATTORNEY: How Do They Do That? Timothy J. Elder, Disability Law Fellow, Brown, Goldstein, Levy, Baltimore Maryland; Parnell Diggs, Principal, Diggs Law Firm, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina; Allison deFranco, Director Human Rights and Inclusive Development, BlueLaw International, Washington, DC 2:55 p.m. LINGUISTIC PROFILING: How It Can Help Your Practice Dr. Sheri Wells-Jensen, Associate Professor, Department of English, Bowling Green State University, Bowling Green, Ohio 3:30 p.m. NABL BUSINESS SESSION: Elections and Other Business 3:50 p.m. CHANGING THE LAW THROUGH THE JACOBUS TENBROEK LAW SYMPOSIUM Lou Ann Blake, J.D., tenBroek Law Symposium Coordinator, NFB, Baltimore Maryland 4:00 p.m. HOW THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND IS CHANGING WHAT IT MEANS TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL Charles S. Brown, First Vice-President NABL Arlington, Virginia 4:30 p.m. DOES THE FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT APPLY TO US? Dr. Marc Maurer, President, NFB Baltimore, Maryland 5:00 p.m. ADJOURN 5:00 to 6:30 p.m. NABL RECEPTION (ticketed event) Join us for cocktails and hors d'oeuvres as we celebrate the progress of our organization. Network and meet your fellow blind attorneys and legal professionals. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Thu Jun 30 20:11:58 2011 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:11:58 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 NABL Annual Meeting Agenda attached and pasted intobody of this message In-Reply-To: <1AC7CC5F16B945B582E1A2E65967E6BF@HPLaptop> References: <9D1503013D3848D38EA13799EC73B66E@labarre> <1AC7CC5F16B945B582E1A2E65967E6BF@HPLaptop> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EE57@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Yes, please? It would be so helpful - even if we cannot claim CLE for viewing / listening. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Geihsler Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 1:07 PM To: 'Scott C. LaBarre'; 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 NABL Annual Meeting Agenda attached and pasted intobody of this message Will there be a later recording or web cast of the scheduled lectures and discussions? Thanks, Shannon Geihsler Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, TX 79401 Phone: 763-3999 Fax: 749-3752 This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 5:55 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 NABL Annual Meeting Agenda attached and pasted intobody of this message AGENDA NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2011 ANNUAL MEETING ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Tuesday, July 5, 2011 Panzacola F-2 Ballroom, Level 1 Rosen Shingle Creek Orlando, Florida 12:30 p.m. REGISTRATION 1:00 p.m. WELCOME AND MEETING LOGISTICS Scott C. LaBarre, President, NABL Denver, Colorado 1:10 p.m. THE RIGHT TO ACCESS INFORMATION: From the United States Supreme Court to the World Intellectual Property Organization Daniel F. Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein, Levy, Baltimore Maryland; Scott C. LaBarre, Principal, LaBarre Law Offices P.C., Denver, Colorado 2:10 p.m. PRACTICING LAW AS A BLIND ATTORNEY: How Do They Do That? Timothy J. Elder, Disability Law Fellow, Brown, Goldstein, Levy, Baltimore Maryland; Parnell Diggs, Principal, Diggs Law Firm, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina; Allison deFranco, Director Human Rights and Inclusive Development, BlueLaw International, Washington, DC 2:55 p.m. LINGUISTIC PROFILING: How It Can Help Your Practice Dr. Sheri Wells-Jensen, Associate Professor, Department of English, Bowling Green State University, Bowling Green, Ohio 3:30 p.m. NABL BUSINESS SESSION: Elections and Other Business 3:50 p.m. CHANGING THE LAW THROUGH THE JACOBUS TENBROEK LAW SYMPOSIUM Lou Ann Blake, J.D., tenBroek Law Symposium Coordinator, NFB, Baltimore Maryland 4:00 p.m. HOW THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND IS CHANGING WHAT IT MEANS TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL Charles S. Brown, First Vice-President NABL Arlington, Virginia 4:30 p.m. DOES THE FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT APPLY TO US? Dr. Marc Maurer, President, NFB Baltimore, Maryland 5:00 p.m. ADJOURN 5:00 to 6:30 p.m. NABL RECEPTION (ticketed event) Join us for cocktails and hors d'oeuvres as we celebrate the progress of our organization. Network and meet your fellow blind attorneys and legal professionals. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From rumpole at roadrunner.com Thu Jun 30 20:18:32 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 16:18:32 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Attorney & D.O.J. postings - Alabama & Mexico City Message-ID: *SPECIAL ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA HONORABLE JOYCE WHITE VANCE VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 11-NDAL-04 All resumes/applications should be postmarked by July 15, 2011 http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/11-ndal-04unpaappellatesausa.htm * EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY, GS-905-15 DEPUTY ATTACHE, U .S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, MEXICO CITY OFFICE OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS (OIA) CRIMINAL DIVISION MEXICO CITY, MEXICO 10-CRM-DET-031 CLOSING DATE: July 11, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-crm-det-031.htm Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From LBlake at nfb.org Thu Jun 30 21:10:51 2011 From: LBlake at nfb.org (Blake, Lou Ann) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:10:51 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Recording of 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Message-ID: Dear List Members, I am happy to announce that the recordings of the plenary sessions and keynote addresses from the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium are now available on the symposium Web page. Please go to http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp to hear recordings from all of the tenBroek symposia. Lou Ann Lou Ann Blake, J.D. HAVA Project Manager and Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund via your phone bill. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Jun 30 21:29:40 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 16:29:40 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: job opening - King County Superior Court - Dependency CASA Program Manager Message-ID: From: Hullett, Judith [mailto:Judith.Hullett at kingcounty.gov] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 2:27 PM To: Hullett, Judith Subject: job opening - King County Superior Court - Dependency CASA Program Manager Good afternoon, You are receiving this email as an officer of a specialty bar association. The attached job announcement is for King County Superior Court's Dependency CASA Program Manager position. We are seeking qualified applicants for the attached job and are asking that you please distribute this to your organization's members. Please be advised that the position is posted on and applications are processed through www.governmentjobs.com Thank you. Judy Hullett, MPA, PHR King County Superior Court Sr. Human Resources Analyst *206-296-9298 6206-205-8271 judith.hullett at kingcounty.gov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Dependency CASA Mgr 06-30-11.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 19293 bytes Desc: Dependency CASA Mgr 06-30-11.docx URL: From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Thu Jun 30 21:49:19 2011 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 15:49:19 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Announcing the 14th Annual Mock Trial Message-ID: <8B07051B2F72445790133B91B6FDFB03@labarre> Here yee, here yee, the National Association of Blind Lawyers is pleased to bring you the 14th Annual Mock Trial where we take an old case affecting the rights of the blind and reenact it to provide both education and entertainment. This year we will be trying the case of Mrs. Dee Voute Robinson v. the Benevolent Works. This social agency refused to hire a highly qualified blind, licensed social worker because of her blindness. The agency says that a blind counselor can't counsel effectively because it is necessary to read body language and it would be impossible for a blind therapist to do home visits. We have a special guest witness this year. Father John Sheehan of the Xavier Society for the Blind will be staring in one of our roles. The admission to the trial is only $5 and you won't be disappointed. Come join us on Monday, July 4th, at 4:15 pm in the Panzacola G-1 Ballroom located on Level 1 of the Rosen Shingle Creek Resort. Regards, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. President, National Association of Blind Lawyers LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From rumpole at roadrunner.com Wed Jun 1 14:40:09 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 10:40:09 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Dept. of Justice ADA settlement announcement Message-ID: <51883DE9FDDD4A2BA99D2E5D930B9E1D@none8a46117901> The Justice Department announced today a comprehensive settlement agreement under the Americans with Disabilities Act with Wells Fargo & Company to ensure equal access for individuals with disabilities to Wells Fargo's services nationwide, including its nearly 10,000 retail banking, brokerage and mortgage stores, over 12,000 ATMs, and its telephone and website services. For more information, go to: http://www.justice..gov/opa/pr/2011/May/11-crt-703.html The Civil Rights Division is on Twitter. Follow us at www.twitter.com/civilrights http://www.twitter.com/civilrights Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 2 14:51:20 2011 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 07:51:20 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] lack of accessible student loan info Message-ID: <913C3CC1-3E9C-4350-9D85-F64B95839514@sbcglobal.net> Hello: For as long as I have had a government student loan, I have faced the problem of inaccessibility when requesting deferment documents and other paperwork. They insist on sending me paperwork, and their on-line documents are only available in PDF, as is the federal government's way. Which brings me to my question: Based on the recent decision forcing the SSA to provide its documents in accessible format, can I use that to force the government student loan people to make my paperwork accessible to me? The fact is, I live alone and in a rural area, and there aren't any sighted people nearby that I feel comfortable with, that I'd want going through my mail, much less knowing my social security number or financial information, yet due to the inaccessible format of the documents I need to fill out to keep my account in good standing, I am forced to allow others privy to this information. Often my loan has been delinquent because of delays which came about due to my inability to find someone who could help me fill these documents out. My credit score and other such record have been hurt over the long term by this situation. Any ideas whether this decision is applicable across these lines? Thanks. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Thu Jun 2 15:03:28 2011 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 08:03:28 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] lack of accessible student loan info In-Reply-To: <913C3CC1-3E9C-4350-9D85-F64B95839514@sbcglobal.net> References: <913C3CC1-3E9C-4350-9D85-F64B95839514@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3ED1D@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Mine are (finally) paid off, but I ran into the same problem when I began losing my vision a couple of years ago. The folks on the phone were not exactly helpful when I called to explain the problem, either, which for me was maintaining access to the on-line payment and document delivery system as more and more layers of security were layered into the process. Hopefully someone can force them to come into compliance with accessibility.... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 7:51 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] lack of accessible student loan info Hello: For as long as I have had a government student loan, I have faced the problem of inaccessibility when requesting deferment documents and other paperwork. They insist on sending me paperwork, and their on-line documents are only available in PDF, as is the federal government's way. Which brings me to my question: Based on the recent decision forcing the SSA to provide its documents in accessible format, can I use that to force the government student loan people to make my paperwork accessible to me? The fact is, I live alone and in a rural area, and there aren't any sighted people nearby that I feel comfortable with, that I'd want going through my mail, much less knowing my social security number or financial information, yet due to the inaccessible format of the documents I need to fill out to keep my account in good standing, I am forced to allow others privy to this information. Often my loan has been delinquent because of delays which came about due to my inability to find someone who could help me fill these documents out. My credit score and other such record have been hurt over the long term by this situation. Any ideas whether this decision is applicable across these lines? Thanks. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 2 15:31:20 2011 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 08:31:20 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] lack of accessible student loan info In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3ED1D@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <913C3CC1-3E9C-4350-9D85-F64B95839514@sbcglobal.net> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3ED1D@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <7B6877AB-C131-4A41-8745-AD7DC92BC339@sbcglobal.net> Gee. One wonders if you called the same (Stafford loans, I believe). Would anyone know how I'd go about wagging the dog on this one? Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Thu Jun 2 15:42:50 2011 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 08:42:50 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] lack of accessible student loan info In-Reply-To: <7B6877AB-C131-4A41-8745-AD7DC92BC339@sbcglobal.net> References: <913C3CC1-3E9C-4350-9D85-F64B95839514@sbcglobal.net> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3ED1D@EVS02.central.pima.gov> <7B6877AB-C131-4A41-8745-AD7DC92BC339@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3ED21@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Mine were consolidated with Sallie Mae - but I think the same parent company has pretty much all of the stuff for the federal student loan programs. Evil, to say the least. Wishing you luck in getting them to behave like actual humans! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 8:31 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] lack of accessible student loan info Gee. One wonders if you called the same (Stafford loans, I believe). Would anyone know how I'd go about wagging the dog on this one? Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Jun 3 19:05:13 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 14:05:13 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: SEEKING EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY TO FILL OPENING AT NON-PROFIT LEGAL CENTER IN BERKELEY, CA Message-ID: From: CMPDL's Disability Discussion Docket (3D) [mailto:CMPDL-3D at MAIL.AMERICANBAR.ORG] On Behalf Of Rebecca Williford Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 2:21 PM To: CMPDL-3D at MAIL.AMERICANBAR.ORG Subject: SEEKING EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY TO FILL OPENING AT NON-PROFIT LEGAL CENTER IN BERKELEY, CA Disability Rights Advocates (DRA), a national non-profit disability rights legal center specializing in precedent-setting and socially significant civil litigation, has a staff position available for a motivated attorney with at least 3 years of litigation experience, to work on a variety of high impact cases. DRA is a great place to work in a congenial and supportive environment. We believe that teamwork, life quality, open intellectual discourse, and good human relationships foster the highest level of professionalism and job satisfaction. DRA is one of the preeminent disability rights legal centers in the nation. In the past 14 years, this 12-lawyer office has successfully litigated more class-action disability rights cases resulting in systemic change than any other legal center in America. DRA handles a wide range of issues such as access to transportation, education, employment, recreation, insurance and health care. We represent populations with many different types of disabilities. We take on the giants such as Kaiser Permanente, United Parcel Service, Macy's, Caltrans, the National Council of Bar Examiners, the City and County of Los Angeles, the New York Taxi and Limousine Commission, and Target.com. Our track record of success is unparalleled. We hope you will find DRA an exciting and fulfilling place to work, and a place where your legal skills will help to transform the world. Requirements - Ability to manage significant litigation - Knowledge of substantive and procedural aspects of complex civil litigation - Experience with discovery (documents and depositions), law and motion practice, trial preparation, and settlement - Excellent academic credentials and analytical and writing skills - Strong organizational skills and self-motivation - Creativity and willingness to work as a team member - California Bar admission - Desire to change the world Preference will be give to individuals with a demonstrated commitment to public interest. Experience with disability issues helpful but not essential. DRA is an equal opportunity employer and values diversity. Salary DOE plus excellent benefits. Please send resume, writing sample (no more than 5 pages), transcript, 3 references (with contact information) and cover letter to: Laurie Ferreira Disability Rights Advocates 2001 Center Street, Fourth Floor Berkeley, CA 94704-1204 Tel: (510) 665-8644 Fax: (510) 665-8511 jobs at dralegal.org ============== Going to respond to this message? Be sure to hit "Reply All" when doing so. Disability Discussion Docket (3D) ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law http://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_services/mental_physical_disability.html [cid:~WRD308.jpg] ------------------ Material distributed over 3D is for educational and informational purposes only. The contents of any e-mail, including any statements that may be construed as legal advice or referral, are solely the responsibility of the e-mail's author. In no event shall any contents be the responsibility of and do not necessarily reflect the views of the American Bar Association, its officers, employees, agents or the Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law. ------------------ Getting too many e-mails? You can switch to the digest format by sending a message to listserv at mail.americanbar.org. Leave the subject blank and in the body of the message type "SET list HTML DIGEST". To return to the traditional subscription, follow the same directions, but put "SET list NODIGEST" in the body of the message. If you have any questions about 3D or the CMPDL in general, please contact William Phelan at william.phelan at americanbar.org. ______________________________________ Thank you for your continued interest in this list. A summary of your list subscriptions, including CMPDL-3D, can be found at http://apps.americanbar.org/elistserv/home.cfm . This new List Subscription Page allows you to manage your lists, as well as join others. If you have any issues you may either contact the list owner via email: CMPDL-3D-request at mail.americanbar.org, or the ABA Service Center at phone: 1-800-285-2221 or email: service at americanbar.org. ______________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ~WRD308.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: ~WRD308.jpg URL: From rumpole at roadrunner.com Sat Jun 4 12:36:30 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 08:36:30 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Attorney listings - Texas and Georgia Message-ID: <12BE69B1077240C4943ADD38BD5CAFF2@none8a46117901> * UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS FEDERAL CORRECTIONAL COMPLEX CONSOLIDATED LEGAL CENTER BEAUMONT, TEXAS ATTORNEY-ADVISOR GS-905-12/13 To apply, please submit a resume, cover letter and a writing sample (a brief or comparable analytic legal exposition that is your work product) by June 15, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/bop-atty-adv-tx.htm ??? * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF GEORGIA 11-GAN-AUSA-03 The announcement is open until filled. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/11-gan-ausa-03.htm Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From rumpole at roadrunner.com Mon Jun 6 13:38:09 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 09:38:09 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] FEMA - DHS dual job posting - WDC Message-ID: <0CB8A3DEF1B94B88813ED11EC705B823@none8a46117901> The actual job posting is found at: http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=99910033 vacancies. Job Announcement Job Title: Disability Integration Specialist GS-0301-12 Department: Department Of Homeland Security Agency: Federal Emergency Management Agency Job Announcement Number: MG-2011-81470-VMJ-479330COR SALARY RANGE: $74,872.00 - $97,333.00 /year OPEN PERIOD: Thursday, June 02, 2011 to Thursday, June 16, 2011 SERIES & GRADE: GS-0301-12 POSITION INFORMATION: Full Time Temporary NTE 2 years PROMOTION POTENTIAL: 12 DUTY LOCATIONS: 2 vacancies - Washington DC Metro Area, DC WHO MAY BE CONSIDERED: United States Citizens JOB SUMMARY: When disaster strikes, America looks to FEMA. Now FEMA looks to you. Join our team and use your talent to support Americans in their times of greatest need. The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) prepares the nation for all hazards and manages Federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident. We foster innovation, reward performance and creativity, and provide challenges on a routine basis with a well-skilled, knowledgeable, high performance workforce. You will serve in the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), in the Office of Disability Integration and Coordination (ODIC), in Washington, DC.. In this position, you will be responsible for ensuring effective disaster response and recovery interface and coordination of Offfice of Disability Integration and Coordination programs and initiatives with Regional Disability Integration Specialists and regional management throughout FEMA, and with the National Council on Disability. PROMOTION POTENTIAL: Future promotions will be dependent on your ability to perform the duties at a higher level, the continuing need for an employee assigned to the higher level, and administrative approval. This position is being announced under FEMA's CORE Program (Cadre of on-call Response/Recovery employees). These positions are authorized under P.L. 93-288 to perform temporary disaster work and are funded from the Disaster Relief Fund. Appointments are excepted service, temporary appointments. This is a 2 year temporary appointment in the Excepted Service. EMERGENCY ASSIGNMENT: FEMA employees are subject to 24 hour on-call in the event of any emergency. This service may require irregular work hours, work at locations other than the official duty station, and may include duties other than those specified in the employee's official position description. Travel requirements in support of emergency operations may be extensive in nature (weeks to months), with little advance notice, and may require employees to relocate to emergency sites that require functioning under intense physical and mental stress. Relocation expenses are not authorized for this position. KEY REQUIREMENTS: You must be a U.S. citizen to be considered for this position. This position requires a (Public Trust/High Risk, TS) background check. Occasional travel may be required. You may be required serve a trial period of 1 year. Direct Deposit is mandatory. Males born after 12/31/59 - Selective Service Registration required. Duties Additional Duty Location Info: 2 vacancies - Washington DC Metro Area, DC Specific Duties: Provides advice, guidance and information regarding a variety of emergency management activities as they relate to ODIC disaster response and recovery programs and responsibilities. Develops and implements policies and procedures for providing accommodations in compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 as Amended, the Rehabilitation Act, as Amended and other applicable laws. Participates in developing and implementing Standard Operating Procedures that are inclusive of the needs and requirements of people with physical, sensory, intellectual, cognitive and mental health disabilities and additionally ensure equal access to persons with disabilities. Develops reporting mechanisms and other processes for the regions in support of disaster response and recovery operations in order to ensure the needs of individuals with disabilities are fully addressed in accordance with Section 689 of the Post-Katrina Emergency Management Reform Act of 2006 and Section 513 of the Homeland Security Act. Qualifications and Evaluations QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED: To qualify for this position at the GS-12 level you must possess at least one of the following: One full year of specialized experience equivalent to the GS-11 level in the federal government, other state, local, non-profit organization, or the private sector Specialized experience for this position is described as experience providing guidance and strategies to integrate and coordinate emergency management efforts to meet the needs of all citizens, including children and adults with disabilities and others with access and functional needs. OR Education - no education requirements for the GS-12 grade level Knowledge, Skills, and abilities: 1. Knowledge of regulations and directives, Code of Federal Regulations, relevant United States Code provisions; FEMA policies, procedures, and practices; and policies and procedures governing disabiility inclusion and community integration initiatives to effectively coordinate ODIC programs and initiatives with Regional Disability Integration Specialists and other designated FEMA personnel. 2. Skills in providing, planning, and implementing emergency preparedness technical assistance, outreach, and liaison activities during disaster response and recovery operations with FEMA Regions, among various government agencies, and with outside organizations. 3. Ability to provide technical advice to management and operational personnel regarding issues concerning individuals with disabilities in pre and post disaster environments. 4. Ability to serve as a headquarters liaison with all regions and as a representative of the ODIC Director in a variety of program planning and coordination efforts supporting disaster response and recovery. All qualifications and grade equivalency requirements must be met within 30 calendar days of the closing date of this announcement. SECURITY CLEARANCE REQUIREMENTS: This is a Public Trust position that requires a background investigation. Appointment to the position is subject tot he applicant or appointee successfully completing essential security investigation, the completion of the investigation, and the favorable adjudication of the investigation. Failure to satisfactorily complete any of this process is grounds for immediate termination. Applicants for this position may be required to submit to a urinalysis for illegal drug use prior to appointment. HOW YOU WILL BE EVALUATED: All applicants will be evaluated based on responses to the Job Questionnaire for the announcement. Once the application process is complete, a review of your application will be made to ensure you meet the job requirements. To determine if you are qualified for this job, a review of your resume and supporting documentation will be made and compared against your responses to the occupational questionnaire. To preview the Assessment Questionnaire, click the following link: View Assessment Questions Back to top Benefits and Other Info BENEFITS: Our career opportunities feature the potential for performance-based increases, flexible hours, and the ability to achieve and maintain a balanced lifestyle. Other benefits that may be available include a uniform allowance, health and wellness programs, fitness centers, and telework. For more information on federal benefits, please visit www.usajobs.gov/jobextrainfo.asp#FEHB. OTHER INFORMATION: This announcement may be used to fill one or more vacancies. VETERANS INFORMATION, EEO POLICY, AND REGISTRATION FOR SELECTIVE SERVICE can be obtained utilizing the links at the bottom of this announcement. CITIZENSHIP: Agencies are permitted to hire non-citizens only in very limited circumstances where there are no qualified citizens available for the position. REASONABLE ACCOMMODATIONS: For more information, please see the link at the bottom of this announcement and www.opm.gov/disability/reasonableaccommodation.asp. Back to top How To Apply HOW TO APPLY: To apply for this position, you must provide a complete Application Package, which includes: 1. Your Resume; 2. A complete Occupational Questionnaire; .the remainder of this posting is not reproduced here. VETERANS INFORMATION, EEO POLICY, AND REGISTRATION FOR SELECTIVE SERVICE can be obtained utilizing the links at the bottom of this announcement. CITIZENSHIP: Agencies are permitted to hire non-citizens only in very limited circumstances where there are no qualified citizens available for the position. REASONABLE ACCOMMODATIONS: For more information, please see the link at the bottom of this announcement and www.opm.gov/disability/reasonableaccommodation.asp. Back to top How To Apply HOW TO APPLY: To apply for this position, you must provide a complete Application Package, which includes: 1. Your Resume; 2. A complete Occupational Questionnaire; .the remainder of this posting is not reproduced here. Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Jun 6 23:33:17 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 18:33:17 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ABA Paul G. Hearne Award for Disability Rights Goal III 2011 Recipient, ABA Commission on Mental and Disability Law Message-ID: Link: http://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_services/mental_physical_disability/initiatives_awards/the_paul_g_hearne_award_for_disability_rights.html Text: ABA Paul G. Hearne Award for Disability Rights Initiatives & Awards Disability Diversity in the Legal Profession Marc Maurer and Daniel Goldstein have been selected to receive the 2011 Paul G. Hearne Award for Disability Rights. Maurer, the president of the National Federation of the Blind (NFB), and Goldstein, a partner at Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP, have served and advocated for the disability community for over 25 years. The award, sponsored by Starbucks Coffee Company, will be presented on August 8, 2011 at the ABA-CMPDL Annual Meeting Reception for Lawyers with Disabilities in Toronto, Canada. As president of the NFB since 1986, Maurer has overseen the expansion of the National Center for the Blind to include the Jernigan Institute, where researchers build products "by the blind for the blind." He previously served as president of the National Association of Blind Lawyers, the NFB of Maryland, and the World Blind Union North America/Caribbean Region. Goldstein is one of the country's top disability-rights litigators, having most recently represented Stephanie Enyart, a low-vision law school graduate, in her suit against the National Conference of Bar Examiners for failing to provide her proper accommodations to take the California Bar Exam. In addition to their individual accomplishments, Maurer and Goldstein have collaborated to make technology more accessible to blind and low-vision individuals. By initiating a national legal campaign to encourage technology manufacturers to design accessible products and by bringing lawsuits against those who refused to do so, Maurer and Goldstein have made ATM machines, cell phones, iPods and e-books more accessible. Their efforts have resulted in settlement agreements and collaborative partnerships with ATM-manufacturer Cardtronics, Target.com, Apple Computers and its iTunes program, America Online and voting machine manufacturers. Both also played roles in creating the Disability Rights Bar Association, the first ever plaintiff-side organization comprised of attorneys representing individuals with disabilities. From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 00:12:05 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 20:12:05 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Question Message-ID: <25D6655CDAB149BFBC665F126BC71DB4@hometwxakonvzn> How do you as blind lawyers write briefs using jaws? RJ From william.burley3 at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 00:33:17 2011 From: william.burley3 at gmail.com (William Burley, III) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 19:33:17 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Who is On Social media? Message-ID: <4deec34e.aabfec0a.145f.347b@mx.google.com> Greetings all. I would like to follow any of you who are on the various social media sites. Would you mind sharing what sites you and/or your company may be listed? Mine are as follows: LinkedIn E-mail address - wburley at burley-wilson.com My company, Burley-Wilson & Associates has a page there too Facebook Burley-Wilson & Associates, L.L.C. - I have a group and fan page listed here. Twitter Username - BurleyWilson or e-mail wburley at burley-wilson.com I have tons more locations but figure these would be the most popular. Thanks! Will William Burley, III (713) 614-3322 William.burley3 at gmail.com Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more details. Need better internet service for cheaper? Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up TODAY! Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 From rthomas at emplmntattorney.com Wed Jun 8 00:42:24 2011 From: rthomas at emplmntattorney.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 17:42:24 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Who is On Social media? In-Reply-To: <4deec34e.aabfec0a.145f.347b@mx.google.com> References: <4deec34e.aabfec0a.145f.347b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7624D2AACFC344728DB7DDCD32AF7BD7@RThomas> You can follow me on twitter; my twitter ID appears below; www.twitter.com/emplmntattorney. Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 www.emplmntattorney.com Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William Burley, III Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 5:33 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] Who is On Social media? Greetings all. I would like to follow any of you who are on the various social media sites. Would you mind sharing what sites you and/or your company may be listed? Mine are as follows: LinkedIn E-mail address - wburley at burley-wilson.com My company, Burley-Wilson & Associates has a page there too Facebook Burley-Wilson & Associates, L.L.C. - I have a group and fan page listed here. Twitter Username - BurleyWilson or e-mail wburley at burley-wilson.com I have tons more locations but figure these would be the most popular. Thanks! Will William Burley, III (713) 614-3322 William.burley3 at gmail.com Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more details. Need better internet service for cheaper? Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up TODAY! Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From dravant at ameritech.net Wed Jun 8 01:46:06 2011 From: dravant at ameritech.net (Denise Avant) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 20:46:06 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Question In-Reply-To: <25D6655CDAB149BFBC665F126BC71DB4@hometwxakonvzn> References: <25D6655CDAB149BFBC665F126BC71DB4@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <3D7B6AF7-9310-4340-A7FF-2A8B3D072E93@ameritech.net> Hello, can you be more specific. I have written numerous briefs and petitions, where law is being cited. I use jaws, but also have a Braille display connected. On Jun 7, 2011, at 7:12 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > How do you as blind lawyers write briefs using jaws? RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net From rumpole at roadrunner.com Wed Jun 8 12:13:03 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 08:13:03 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Attorney postings Message-ID: <72D95A0E217845A8ADB54118DFD4490F@none8a46117901> * EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY, GS-905-14/15 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING ANTI-CORRUPTION RESIDENT LEGAL ADVISOR FOR BELGRADE, SERBIA 11-CRM-DET-027 Applications for this position should be submitted by June 30, 2011. However, this announcement will remain open until the position is filled. [http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/11-crm-det-027.htm] * EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY SENIOR LEVEL POSITION (SL-0905) SENIOR JUSTICE COUNSEL FOR THE EUROPEAN UNION AND INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL MATTERS UNITED STATES MISSION TO THE EUROPEAN UNION - BRUSSELS OFFICE OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS (OIA) CRIMINAL DIVISION 11-CRM-SL-02 Submissions must be post-marked or received by June 20, 2011. [http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/11-crm-sl-02.htm] Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Wed Jun 8 19:23:10 2011 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 13:23:10 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: [DRBA] Applications now being accepted for new Kirkland & Ellis Justice Fellowship at DRLC Message-ID: <91B0123B1F024C0A9197E245FBB51AC5@labarre> fyi Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: Shawna Parks To: DRBA at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 12:46 PM Subject: [DRBA] Applications now being accepted for new Kirkland & Ellis Justice Fellowship at DRLC Hi All, I wanted to let you know that the application period for the Disability Rights Legal Center's newly created Kirkland & Ellis Justice Fellowship is now open. Information about the fellowship and the application can be found at: www.disabilityrightslegalcenter.org/help/KirklandEllisJusticeFellowship.cfm I've also included information about the Fellowship below. Please feel free to forward to anyone you think may be interested. Applications are due July 8th. Fellowship: The Kirkland & Ellis Justice Fellowship is a two year legal fellowship, and will be the lead position in DRLC's newly created Community Advocacy Program. The goal of the Program and the Fellowship is to provide the disability community with critical information and resources that will connect them with relevant service providers, provide limited representation on smaller legal matters, facilitate self-advocacy, and identify systemic issues appropriate for DRLC impact litigation. In order to accomplish this, the Community Advocacy Program under the leadership of the Kirkland & Ellis Justice Fellow will provide a number of services to the community, including: · providing and developing self-help and "know your rights" materials; · providing limited representation on non-litigation matters (known as brief services); · providing meaningful referrals to other organizations, agencies and lawyers, including via DRLC's Lawyer Referral Service; · assisting with pro bono referrals for low income special education cases; and · assisting with investigation of potential litigation cases that are consistent with DRLC's mission and goals. The Fellow will work at the DRLC Los Angeles office with other staff in the program, as well as DRLC's clinical law students and pro bono attorneys on all of the above. The Fellow will also be responsible for significant outreach to legal organizations, service providers, and other attorneys in order to facilitate meaningful referrals for callers and educate the community about DRLC's services. In addition, the Fellow will develop at least one area of expertise, in which he or she cultivates an extensive understanding of the law and issues facing the community. The Fellow will provide trainings and write articles in this area of expertise in order to further inform the community and legal practitioners on that area of the law. The topic will be selected by the Fellow in consultation with DRLC's Executive Director and Legal Director, and can include but is not limited to topics such as housing rights for people with disabilities, rights of people who use service animals, the education rights of youth in the delinquency system, or the intersection of race and disability. Qualifications: Applicants must possess a J.D. and be admitted to the California bar, or have taken or be willing to take the California bar exam. Applicants must possess excellent interpersonal, public speaking and organizational skills, as well as superior academic credentials. Public interest experience and prior work with community organizations is also preferred. Fluency in Spanish or another language relevant to the communities served by DRLC is strongly preferred. Travel within California, and occasional national travel required. Salary and Benefits: The salary for the Kirkland & Ellis Justice Fellowship is $46,000 annually. Benefits include health, dental and vision insurance, life and long-term disability insurance, 401K, AFLAC eligibility, three weeks of vacation, and twelve sick days per year. DRLC also observes all Loyola Law School staff holidays which typically include 14-17 days per year. Parking stipend and state bar dues are also covered for the Fellow. Legal training opportunities are provided. Application Process: To apply for the Kirkland & Ellis Justice Fellowship, applicants must submit two letters of recommendation, a current resume, a legal writing sample of no more than five pages, and the application form. All materials must be submitted via the website no later than 5 p.m. (PST) Friday, July 8, 2011. Finalists will be notified by Friday, July 15, 2011, with interviews of finalist candidates conducted during the weeks of August 8 and August 15. Final selection of the Kirkland & Ellis Justice Fellow will be made no later than August 22, 2011. The selected Fellow will begin work on Monday, October 3, 2011. -- Shawna L. Parks Legal Director Disability Rights Legal Center Adjunct Professor of Law Loyola Law School 919 Albany Street Los Angeles, CA 90015 213 736-1031 -- main number 213 736-1477 -- direct dial 213 736-8310 -- TDD 213 736-1428 -- fax shawna.parks at lls.edu www.disabilityrightslegalcenter.org This electronic mail message contains information that (a) is or may be legally privileged, confidential, proprietary in nature, or otherwise protected by law from disclosure, and (b) is intended only for the use of the Addressee(s) named herein. If you are not the intended recipient, an addressee, or the person responsible for delivering this to an addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, using, copying, or distributing any part of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please contact us immediately and take the steps necessary to delete the message completely from your computer system. Thank you. REMINDER: The DRBA listserv is intended to facilitate open discussion and sharing of ideas. Members need to feel confident that their discussions will not be distributed beyond the group unnecessarily. PLEASE CONSULT WITH THE SENDER(S) BEFORE FORWARDING ANY LISTSERV DISCUSSIONS BEYOND THE DRBA GROUP. From t.l.cantrell at comcast.net Thu Jun 9 23:57:21 2011 From: t.l.cantrell at comcast.net (Tammy Cantrell) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 18:57:21 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind person as a witness question Message-ID: Hello, I need info. I have a blind person that has to be in court. He has to read and verify documents to be submitted into evidence. Are there reasonable accommodations for this situation? The person does not have the portable technology to use. If he borrows something, he isn't going to be proficient with it. His testamony is required because he is the person that filed the complaint. I doubt I could help him since I am on the witness list. If you have any suggestions, please share them with me. This is very important. Thanks! From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Fri Jun 10 13:51:44 2011 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 09:51:44 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind person as a witness question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43C91E738D544E77A001179EE5B477BB@DHRL6TC1> Your friend will need a laptop with his documents scanned and OCR'd into MS word. I recommend a single earphone. The other alternative is that he has the evidence put into Braille, but I don't know how his Braille skills are or whether this would be worth the cost. I have tried many cases using a laptop with window-eyes, and it works well. Obviously, jaws would work too. An apple might even work better, as good as they have gotten lately. I can read Braille, but its just way too slow and cumbersome for the courtroom in my opinion, but others may disagree. Getting used to an earphone in one ear and listening to what is going on around you is certainly a learned skill. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI 48307 Phone: (248) 841-9405 Fax: (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tammy Cantrell Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 7:57 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Blind person as a witness question Hello, I need info. I have a blind person that has to be in court. He has to read and verify documents to be submitted into evidence. Are there reasonable accommodations for this situation? The person does not have the portable technology to use. If he borrows something, he isn't going to be proficient with it. His testamony is required because he is the person that filed the complaint. I doubt I could help him since I am on the witness list. If you have any suggestions, please share them with me. This is very important. Thanks! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com From rumpole at roadrunner.com Fri Jun 10 18:20:01 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 14:20:01 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Attorney Job Posting - FBI Message-ID: <0943AEEF5780400381BFFB55A78F41FE@none8a46117901> * GENERAL ATTORNEY, GS 12/13/14/15 OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY (OPR) FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION WASHINGTON, DC Submissions must be received by June 24, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/opr.htm Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From rumpole at roadrunner.com Mon Jun 13 12:39:23 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 08:39:23 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Attorney Posting- Uncompensated-Louisiana Message-ID: <86133E3344EB45B18EB07CDF1460AD6A@none8a46117901> * SPECIAL ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (SERVES WITHOUT COMPENSATION) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF LOUISIANA 11-WDLA-SAUSA-01 Position is open until filled; however, there will be an initial closing date of August 30, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/11-wdla-sausa-01.htm Date posted: 06-10-2011 Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Tue Jun 14 19:06:44 2011 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:06:44 +0100 Subject: [blindlaw] Hi Can You Help Obtain US Law Books Message-ID: Dear all, As I'm new to this list, I'd like to introduce myself. I'My name is Gerard Sadlier. I'm a BCL (masters candidate) at Oxford University. I am looking for some US law books. I haven't dealt with publishers in the US before so I wondered if people on this list might be able to help me with advice. I am interested in getting the following books: L. Tribe, Constitutional Law Sunsteen et al Administrative Law, Text Cases and Problems, Keetan Insurance Law I'd be really grateful for any help anyone could give me. Kind regards Gerard From rumpole at roadrunner.com Tue Jun 14 22:51:37 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 18:51:37 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Attorney posting - Illinois - uncompensated Message-ID: <2739B0B2D611480C917FC7C193DF73B7@none8a46117901> * SPECIAL ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (SERVES WITHOUT COMPENSATION) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 11-SDIL-01 Position is open until filled http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/11-sdil-01.htm] Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From amatney at hf-law.com Wed Jun 15 13:40:03 2011 From: amatney at hf-law.com (Angela Matney) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 09:40:03 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] DC, NY, Houston Jobs with Seyfarth Shaw LLP Message-ID: <9E93687A9231064FAD3BBDD80BE19E2B062D783A@hfexch1.hirschlerfleischer.com> Hello everyone, A former colleague of mine is engaged in recruiting for several positions with Seyfarth Shaw LLP. Specifically, there are positions in DC, New York, and Houston. The firm pays for all relocation fees. Descriptions of the DC positions are pasted below. If you are interested in any of the positions, please send a resume to kim.goldberg at anchorplanninggroup.com Labor & Employment Associate - Washington, D.C. The Washington DC office of Seyfarth Shaw LLP seeks a senior labor & employment associate. 5 to 10 years substantive litigation experience, working on all aspects of labor and employment litigation, are required. Excellent academic credentials, legal writing and analytical skills are also required. Trial experience a plus. The Washington, D.C. office of Seyfarth Shaw seeks a Government Contracts associate with 3 to 6 years experience. Background in federal litigation and construction is a plus. Excellent academic credentials, analytical skills and verbal and written communication skills required. Labor & Employment ADA Associate - Washington, D.C. The Washington, DC office of Seyfarth Shaw seeks a 2nd or 3rd year associate who is committed to becoming an expert in Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and supporting the firm's growing practice in this area. Duties will also include working on some complex employment-discrimination matters. The candidate must have 2-3 years of litigation experience handling discrimination-related lawsuits, experience handling matters arising under Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, excellent writing skills, and attention to detail. Experience handling government investigations and with cases arising under the Fair Housing Act and the Americans with Disabilities Act is a plus. Angela R. Matney Attorney Hirschler Fleischer 725 Jackson Street, Suite 200 Fredericksburg, Virginia 22401 Tel: (540) 604-2117 Fax: (540) 604-2101 amatney at hf-law.com http://www.hf-law.com Hirschler Fleischer, A Professional Corporation Confidentiality Note: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by returning it to the sender and delete this copy from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to Treasury Department Circular 230, tax advice contained in this communication and any attachments are not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code, nor may any such tax advice be used to promote, market or recommend to any person any transaction or matter that is the subject of this communication and any attachments. From Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov Wed Jun 15 13:48:07 2011 From: Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov (Norman, Gary C. (CMS/OSORA)) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 09:48:07 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] DC, NY, Houston Jobs with Seyfarth Shaw LLP In-Reply-To: <9E93687A9231064FAD3BBDD80BE19E2B062D783A@hfexch1.hirschlerfleischer.com> References: <9E93687A9231064FAD3BBDD80BE19E2B062D783A@hfexch1.hirschlerfleischer.com> Message-ID: <5F7E6855B3549A4096D6B30DCADC2D045B446A24C5@PL-EMSMB4.ees.hhs.gov> Thanks so much for this information. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angela Matney Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 9:40 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] DC, NY, Houston Jobs with Seyfarth Shaw LLP Hello everyone, A former colleague of mine is engaged in recruiting for several positions with Seyfarth Shaw LLP. Specifically, there are positions in DC, New York, and Houston. The firm pays for all relocation fees. Descriptions of the DC positions are pasted below. If you are interested in any of the positions, please send a resume to kim.goldberg at anchorplanninggroup.com Labor & Employment Associate - Washington, D.C. The Washington DC office of Seyfarth Shaw LLP seeks a senior labor & employment associate. 5 to 10 years substantive litigation experience, working on all aspects of labor and employment litigation, are required. Excellent academic credentials, legal writing and analytical skills are also required. Trial experience a plus. The Washington, D.C. office of Seyfarth Shaw seeks a Government Contracts associate with 3 to 6 years experience. Background in federal litigation and construction is a plus. Excellent academic credentials, analytical skills and verbal and written communication skills required. Labor & Employment ADA Associate - Washington, D.C. The Washington, DC office of Seyfarth Shaw seeks a 2nd or 3rd year associate who is committed to becoming an expert in Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and supporting the firm's growing practice in this area. Duties will also include working on some complex employment-discrimination matters. The candidate must have 2-3 years of litigation experience handling discrimination-related lawsuits, experience handling matters arising under Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, excellent writing skills, and attention to detail. Experience handling government investigations and with cases arising under the Fair Housing Act and the Americans with Disabilities Act is a plus. Angela R. Matney Attorney Hirschler Fleischer 725 Jackson Street, Suite 200 Fredericksburg, Virginia 22401 Tel: (540) 604-2117 Fax: (540) 604-2101 amatney at hf-law.com http://www.hf-law.com Hirschler Fleischer, A Professional Corporation Confidentiality Note: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by returning it to the sender and delete this copy from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to Treasury Department Circular 230, tax advice contained in this communication and any attachments are not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code, nor may any such tax advice be used to promote, market or recommend to any person any transaction or matter that is the subject of this communication and any attachments. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gary.norman%40cms.hhs.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Jun 16 17:19:37 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 12:19:37 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates, NPR Morning Edition, June 15, 2011 Message-ID: Link: http://www.npr.org/2011/06/15/137179261/blind-law-student-claims-discrimination-in-testing Text: Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates by Quinn Klinefelter June 15, 2011 Morning Edition Transcript William Archie/Detroit Free Press Attorney Richard Bernstein (left) and Angelo Binno walk through the law office of The Bernstein Law Firm in Farmington Hills, Mich., on May 24. Binno, who is legally blind, is suing the American Bar Association, saying its standards don't accommodate blind law school applicants. June 15, 2011 from WDET A prospective law school student in Michigan is suing the American Bar Association over a case he argues is truly a matter of blind justice. The student says he is being denied access to top-tier law schools because of a test he says no one who's blind could possibly pass. The Law School Admission Test, commonly known as the LSAT, typically features more than a dozen questions where test takers are strongly encouraged to draw out a written diagram to solve the problem. Law school hopeful Angelo Binno was born blind and has overcome many obstacles. But, the 28-year-old says, he could not overcome the low test scores he kept getting when taking the LSAT. And, because of those scores, he was rejected by the three law schools he applied to. "I can't work any harder. I can't study any harder. I can't figure it out, because I can't draw out a diagram like a sighted person can to figure out the answers to these questions," Binno says. Binno is no slouch. He graduated from his high school a year early, had an internship at a law firm after graduating and speaks three languages. He also worked for the Department of Homeland Security before funding cutbacks led to a layoff. But Binno says he was stymied in his attempt to become a lawyer because the American Bar Association requires law schools to use a "valid and reliable" admissions test. Only the LSAT qualifies. "The ABA is supposed to be standing up for justice," he says. "What are they standing for in this situation? I'm not saying that I should receive an automatic entrance into law school. All I'm saying is, give me a level playing field," he says. Binno turned to a sympathetic friend for help. Attorney Richard Bernstein is blind, but he says he received a waiver to enter law school 15 years ago. Shortly thereafter, the ABA revised its standards and, Bernstein claims, threatened to penalize schools that gave too many waivers or did not use the LSAT. Now, Bernstein is suing the ABA, arguing that the LSAT violates the Americans with Disabilities Act. "They are basically forcing U.S. law schools to break federal law by requiring applicants to take an illegal exam. The Americans with Disabilities Act is very clear about this," Bernstein says. "It is illegal to require someone to take an exam which, on its face, is discriminatory." In a written statement, the ABA says it requires universities it accredits to conform to federal law, and that accommodations are made for people with disabilities. Those who have judged law school applications, like Wayne State University Professor David Moss, say some universities do accept students with low LSAT scores. But, Moss says, the company creating the LSAT directs that tests given with special accommodations - like those granted to blind students - should not be given the same weight as regular LSATs. "They've got this flag on it that screams out, 'Beware of this test result, it could be dangerous to your health,'" Moss says. Schools are concerned it might damage their rankings - and prestige - in the annual ratings by U.S. News and World Report. Donald Polden, dean of Santa Clara University Law School, leads an ABA committee reviewing accreditation standards. He says the ABA does grant some schools exemptions from using the LSAT, but top-tier programs don't want to risk their rankings. "The stories are legend about a five- or six-position swing in a school has caused the loss of jobs of administrators or students to flee for other law schools," he says. Polden says many on his committee think the ABA should eliminate the use of the LSAT as a prerequisite to enter any law school. In the meantime, Angelo Binno waits for his day in court - not as the attorney he hopes he'll eventually become, but as a plaintiff arguing that his disability should not prevent him from reaching the top ranks of his chosen profession. From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Fri Jun 17 14:17:31 2011 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 07:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] immigration question Message-ID: <471751.94673.qm@web112419.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi everyone,   I had someone come to me with a question about visas (of which I know nothing about.) The situation is this: A woman is an American citizen and wants to get her husband (an illegal) a visa. She is going to be under the care of a medical professional soon. She was told by an immigration attorney that her husband would have to return to his homeland for eight months to a year and would be able to come back due to the attorney obtaining a visa waiver because he (husband) is the only one who can help take care of the kids since she (wife) will be under medical care.   Anyway, I guess I was the "second opinion" so to speak. The attorney who told her this used to work for the feds so I don't know why I'm being asked. (I would think the attorney would know if anyone would.) Any assistance that any of you can give me would be very much appreciated.   Thanks.   Mike  From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Fri Jun 17 14:50:24 2011 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 07:50:24 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] immigration question In-Reply-To: <471751.94673.qm@web112419.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <471751.94673.qm@web112419.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EDBB@EVS02.central.pima.gov> I haven't done active immigration representation since I started at the public defenders' office, but from what I need to know to stay current for that position indicates that the information is correct. Humanitarian waivers are generally available for medical and similar purposes. My only concern might be the fact that if they have kids together, the feds will automatically know (or at least suspect) that he previously entered without documentation. I don't know if there will be a barrier because of that, or at least some sort of monetary fine... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Gilmore Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 7:18 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] immigration question Hi everyone,   I had someone come to me with a question about visas (of which I know nothing about.) The situation is this: A woman is an American citizen and wants to get her husband (an illegal) a visa. She is going to be under the care of a medical professional soon. She was told by an immigration attorney that her husband would have to return to his homeland for eight months to a year and would be able to come back due to the attorney obtaining a visa waiver because he (husband) is the only one who can help take care of the kids since she (wife) will be under medical care.   Anyway, I guess I was the "second opinion" so to speak. The attorney who told her this used to work for the feds so I don't know why I'm being asked. (I would think the attorney would know if anyone would.) Any assistance that any of you can give me would be very much appreciated.   Thanks.   Mike  _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Fri Jun 17 15:05:45 2011 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 15:05:45 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? Message-ID: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F4006@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Good morning counsels, I have a friend that is seeking legal counsel regarding questions related to family law, and more to the point, sapcr issues. She is blind, low income (ssi and child aide), and the child's Father has told her if she tries to leave the current city or state to find better housing or work that he will sue for full custody. She says his support is lacking therefore she must do something in order to better support her child. I do not have direct knowledge to the full legal issues as I have not reviewed any court documents, but rather have only provided what she has told me. She is afraid to find a lawyer directly as she believes there is no way she could get counsel without mortgaging off her only child in payment. I have not provided her any direct help as first as a student attorney I cannot do so unless the case comes through our legal clinic, and second I am in Texas. However, I believe our profession to be one of honor, and that one of our primary duties is to provide counsel to those who require it in a helpful form, I told her that I would ask all of you in order to find her some assistance. What legal aid programs do you believe would provide her legal guidance in these and related matters taking into account her financial situation? Thank you very much for your assistance. Have a good day, and continue, as I do, standing for justice, and zealously advocate for the truth. Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Fri Jun 17 15:26:08 2011 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 08:26:08 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? In-Reply-To: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F4006@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> References: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F4006@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EDBE@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Is there a Legal Aid office (under the federal Legal Services program) in her city? I don't know about all offices under that charter do so, but at least here, Southern Arizona Legal Aid does a lot of family law matters, as well as some disability issues which might also be part of this case. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dittman, Robert Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:06 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? Good morning counsels, I have a friend that is seeking legal counsel regarding questions related to family law, and more to the point, sapcr issues. She is blind, low income (ssi and child aide), and the child's Father has told her if she tries to leave the current city or state to find better housing or work that he will sue for full custody. She says his support is lacking therefore she must do something in order to better support her child. I do not have direct knowledge to the full legal issues as I have not reviewed any court documents, but rather have only provided what she has told me. She is afraid to find a lawyer directly as she believes there is no way she could get counsel without mortgaging off her only child in payment. I have not provided her any direct help as first as a student attorney I cannot do so unless the case comes through our legal clinic, and second I am in Texas. However, I believe our profession to be one of honor, and that one of our primary duties is to provide counsel to those who require it in a helpful form, I told her that I would ask all of you in order to find her some assistance. What legal aid programs do you believe would provide her legal guidance in these and related matters taking into account her financial situation? Thank you very much for your assistance. Have a good day, and continue, as I do, standing for justice, and zealously advocate for the truth. Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From kgilbride at dralegal.org Fri Jun 17 17:31:29 2011 From: kgilbride at dralegal.org (Karla Gilbride) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:31:29 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? In-Reply-To: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F4006@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> References: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F4006@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <754D9C7D0111F64FB1C87BD46B8ACD1C0105A7C6@draexchange.dralegal.com> I would recommend that she contact her local office of Disability Rights California, which she can find by visiting http://www.disabilityrightsca.org/about/index.htm. Good luck, Karla -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dittman, Robert Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:06 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? Good morning counsels, I have a friend that is seeking legal counsel regarding questions related to family law, and more to the point, sapcr issues. She is blind, low income (ssi and child aide), and the child's Father has told her if she tries to leave the current city or state to find better housing or work that he will sue for full custody. She says his support is lacking therefore she must do something in order to better support her child. I do not have direct knowledge to the full legal issues as I have not reviewed any court documents, but rather have only provided what she has told me. She is afraid to find a lawyer directly as she believes there is no way she could get counsel without mortgaging off her only child in payment. I have not provided her any direct help as first as a student attorney I cannot do so unless the case comes through our legal clinic, and second I am in Texas. However, I believe our profession to be one of honor, and that one of our primary duties is to provide counsel to those who require it in a helpful form, I told her that I would ask all of you in order to find her some assistance. What legal aid programs do you believe would provide her legal guidance in these and related matters taking into account her financial situation? Thank you very much for your assistance. Have a good day, and continue, as I do, standing for justice, and zealously advocate for the truth. Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kgilbride%40dr alegal.org From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 17 18:12:13 2011 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:12:13 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? In-Reply-To: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F4006@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> References: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F4006@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: as she is low income and is dealing with a family law matter the legal assistance program in her area should be able to be of service. you can contact me off listat ckrugman at sbcglobal.net with her locale and I will refer you to the appropriate program in her geographic area that may be able to provide service to her. Charles L. krugman, M.S.W. Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dittman, Robert" To: Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:05 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? > Good morning counsels, > > I have a friend that is seeking legal counsel regarding questions related > to family law, and more to the point, sapcr issues. > > She is blind, low income (ssi and child aide), and the child's Father has > told her if she tries to leave the current city or state to find better > housing or work that he will sue for full custody. She says his support > is lacking therefore she must do something in order to better support her > child. I do not have direct knowledge to the full legal issues as I have > not reviewed any court documents, but rather have only provided what she > has told me. She is afraid to find a lawyer directly as she believes > there is no way she could get counsel without mortgaging off her only > child in payment. I have not provided her any direct help as first as a > student attorney I cannot do so unless the case comes through our legal > clinic, and second I am in Texas. However, I believe our profession to be > one of honor, and that one of our primary duties is to provide counsel to > those who require it in a helpful form, I told her that I would ask all of > you in order to find her some assistance. > What legal aid programs do you believe would provide her legal guidance in > these and related matters taking into account her financial situation? > > Thank you very much for your assistance. > > > Have a good day, and continue, as I do, standing for justice, and > zealously advocate for the truth. > > Robert D. Dittman > Student Attorney > St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) > 2507 N.W. 36th Street > San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 > Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 > Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail > and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Fri Jun 17 18:54:58 2011 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 18:54:58 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? In-Reply-To: References: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F4006@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F41ED@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Mr. Krugman, Thank you for receiving my call, and for offering to provide assistance to my friend. I hope you can be of some service, and your willingness to assist brings credit to yourself, and the legal profession. Warmest regards, Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX  78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760  fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 1:12 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? as she is low income and is dealing with a family law matter the legal assistance program in her area should be able to be of service. you can contact me off listat ckrugman at sbcglobal.net with her locale and I will refer you to the appropriate program in her geographic area that may be able to provide service to her. Charles L. krugman, M.S.W. Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dittman, Robert" To: Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:05 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Legal assistance for blind low income in California? > Good morning counsels, > > I have a friend that is seeking legal counsel regarding questions > related to family law, and more to the point, sapcr issues. > > She is blind, low income (ssi and child aide), and the child's Father > has told her if she tries to leave the current city or state to find > better housing or work that he will sue for full custody. She says > his support is lacking therefore she must do something in order to > better support her child. I do not have direct knowledge to the full > legal issues as I have not reviewed any court documents, but rather > have only provided what she has told me. She is afraid to find a > lawyer directly as she believes there is no way she could get counsel > without mortgaging off her only child in payment. I have not provided > her any direct help as first as a student attorney I cannot do so > unless the case comes through our legal clinic, and second I am in > Texas. However, I believe our profession to be one of honor, and that > one of our primary duties is to provide counsel to those who require > it in a helpful form, I told her that I would ask all of you in order to find her some assistance. > What legal aid programs do you believe would provide her legal > guidance in these and related matters taking into account her financial situation? > > Thank you very much for your assistance. > > > Have a good day, and continue, as I do, standing for justice, and > zealously advocate for the truth. > > Robert D. Dittman > Student Attorney > St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil > Clinic) > 2507 N.W. 36th Street > San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 > Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 > Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail > and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > bcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu From rumpole at roadrunner.com Fri Jun 17 22:33:47 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 18:33:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S Attorney Postings - 3 in Kansas 1 in Florida Message-ID: <82A3EC829AC04223A8CF2332F6892AC2@none8a46117901> * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF KANSAS VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 11-KS-SAUSA-03 Applications must be received by 7/18/2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/sausa-civvacann-kansascity.htm * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF KANSAS VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 11-KS-SAUSA-02 Applications must be received by 7/18/2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/sausacivvacann-topeka.htm * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF KANSAS VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 11-KS-SAUSA-01 Applications must be received by 7/18/2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/sausa-civvacann-wichita.htm * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS CONSOLIDATED LEGAL CENTER FEDERAL CORRECTIONAL COMPLEX COLEMAN, FLORIDA ATTORNEY ADVISOR GS-905-12/13 This position is open until filled, but no later than June 28, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/colemanclcattyvac.htm Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From rumpole at roadrunner.com Sat Jun 18 00:35:42 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 20:35:42 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates, NPR Morning Edition, June 15, 2011 References: Message-ID: I am appalled to hear this story. Twenty seven years ago when I began my trek to go to law school the LSAS refused accommodations for me that were, in any realistic sense, worth while. I won't bore those on this list with my tale of woe with the LSAS, but I will say that I had to take the test more than once and my scores were flagged with the warning that the score may not be valid because I'd been provided with a testing accommodation, and went on to take the GRE and the Master's program exam just to get test scores that would not say, up front, that I was a bad bet because I'd taken the LSAT with an accommodation. Why on earth is the LSAS still being permitted to get away with this? I've been practicing law since 1990 in two states with a pretty good record as an on-my-feet litigator and have proven myself in Administrative settings, state courts on almost all levels and in Federal court. I'm blind, and I think I've proven that the LSAS was just plain wrong with their out dated disability testing policy. I was rejected 10 times in my efforts to go to law school here in New England for exactly the same reason that Mr. Binno complains of. I was accepted into the University of Santa Clara School of law under their special appointments program, a program that may, or may not be in effect there any longer. But I can tell you that, at the time, Santa Clara was very near the top of the ratings that were then put out by the Gourrman report. IF memory serves me correctly, it was rated 12th in the nation at the time. IT is one of two Jesuit law schools (the other one being Georgetown) and I am very proud that they not only accepted me, but gave me a top notch legal education. They saw me as a good student who worked hard. Not as an LSAT score. In contrast, back when I was trying to get a decent score on the LSAT - I clearly recall being asked what I really had problems with in testing. My response was two fold - first, a bit of additional time to take the LSAT because it simply takes longer to read out loud than it does to read to yourself - and questions that depend upon visual ability, involving colors, graphs and diagrams, were simply unfair and almost impossible to deal with as a blind individual. Second, when the LSAS is communicating with me, handwritten letters in pencil simply defeat my adaptive technology, so if possible, could they please send me letters that are typewritten or on audio tape. They responded to me by postcard, handwritten in pencil. After the subsequent passage of the Americans With Disabilities Act and passage of enough time for the testing services to "catch up" with reality - I am stunned to hear that this prehistoric mentality continues to exist in professional testing services. In my opinion, and it is only one man's opinion, it is the LSAS that needs to be brought up short here and the ABA should be doing it. As a practicing attorney, I want to know why it is that individuals as well as businesses will do what normal, thinking people know to be legally, morally and fundamentally correct right after they have been snarled into a corner and ordered to do so by a Federal Judge, and not one minute before? In all my years of practice, I have never once seen a state or Federal law that prohibits logical reasoning, independent thought or common sense. The LSAS is not prohibited from modernizing its testing procedures relative to applicants with a disability of any sort, not just blindness. By the way, are law schools nationwide warned that the LSAS administers a test that is inaccurate for a known percentage of those tested with it? Somehow, I think not. Some things have improved though - for example, the days when lawyers ask me questions during a job interview like: "Did you take the real bar exam, or one of those tests for handicapped people?" And "Have you learned how to use a telephone yet?" Are no longer asked. And yes, those are both real questions that I have been asked in job interviews over past years. I'm sure others on this list have been asked some that are just as bad or worse. But then again, the unemployment rate among qualified lawyers with a visual impairment is still disgraceful in a profession that is supposed to pride itself on equality and justice. To again state my opinion, the ABA should be on the LSAS about their testing policy in this situation. This issue represents an embarrassment to the ABA, and a long standing problem that should have been hanged and buried a very long time ago. Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nightingale, Noel" To: Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 1:19 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates, NPR Morning Edition, June 15, 2011 > > Link: > http://www.npr.org/2011/06/15/137179261/blind-law-student-claims-discrimination-in-testing > > Text: > Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates > by Quinn Klinefelter > June 15, 2011 > Morning Edition > Transcript > > William Archie/Detroit Free Press > > Attorney Richard Bernstein (left) and Angelo Binno walk through the law > office of The Bernstein Law Firm in Farmington Hills, Mich., on May 24. > Binno, who is legally blind, is suing the American Bar Association, saying > its standards don't accommodate blind law school applicants. > > June 15, 2011 from WDET > A prospective law school student in Michigan is suing the American Bar > Association over a case he argues is truly a matter of blind justice. The > student says he is being denied access to top-tier law schools because of > a test he says no one who's blind could possibly pass. > > The Law School Admission Test, commonly known as the LSAT, typically > features more than a dozen questions where test takers are strongly > encouraged to draw out a written diagram to solve the problem. > > Law school hopeful Angelo Binno was born blind and has overcome many > obstacles. But, the 28-year-old says, he could not overcome the low test > scores he kept getting when taking the LSAT. And, because of those scores, > he was rejected by the three law schools he applied to. > > "I can't work any harder. I can't study any harder. I can't figure it out, > because I can't draw out a diagram like a sighted person can to figure out > the answers to these questions," Binno says. > > Binno is no slouch. He graduated from his high school a year early, had an > internship at a law firm after graduating and speaks three languages. He > also worked for the Department of Homeland Security before funding > cutbacks led to a layoff. > > But Binno says he was stymied in his attempt to become a lawyer because > the American Bar Association requires law schools to use a "valid and > reliable" admissions test. Only the LSAT qualifies. > > "The ABA is supposed to be standing up for justice," he says. "What are > they standing for in this situation? I'm not saying that I should receive > an automatic entrance into law school. All I'm saying is, give me a level > playing field," he says. > > Binno turned to a sympathetic friend for help. > > Attorney Richard Bernstein is blind, but he says he received a waiver to > enter law school 15 years ago. Shortly thereafter, the ABA revised its > standards and, Bernstein claims, threatened to penalize schools that gave > too many waivers or did not use the LSAT. > > Now, Bernstein is suing the ABA, arguing that the LSAT violates the > Americans with Disabilities Act. > > "They are basically forcing U.S. law schools to break federal law by > requiring applicants to take an illegal exam. The Americans with > Disabilities Act is very clear about this," Bernstein says. "It is illegal > to require someone to take an exam which, on its face, is discriminatory." > > In a written statement, the ABA says it requires universities it accredits > to conform to federal law, and that accommodations are made for people > with disabilities. > > Those who have judged law school applications, like Wayne State University > Professor David Moss, say some universities do accept students with low > LSAT scores. But, Moss says, the company creating the LSAT directs that > tests given with special accommodations - like those granted to blind > students - should not be given the same weight as regular LSATs. > > "They've got this flag on it that screams out, 'Beware of this test > result, it could be dangerous to your health,'" Moss says. > > Schools are concerned it might damage their rankings - and prestige - in > the annual ratings by U.S. News and World Report. > > Donald Polden, dean of Santa Clara University Law School, leads an ABA > committee reviewing accreditation standards. He says the ABA does grant > some schools exemptions from using the LSAT, but top-tier programs don't > want to risk their rankings. > > "The stories are legend about a five- or six-position swing in a school > has caused the loss of jobs of administrators or students to flee for > other law schools," he says. > > Polden says many on his committee think the ABA should eliminate the use > of the LSAT as a prerequisite to enter any law school. > > In the meantime, Angelo Binno waits for his day in court - not as the > attorney he hopes he'll eventually become, but as a plaintiff arguing that > his disability should not prevent him from reaching the top ranks of his > chosen profession. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3707 - Release Date: 06/16/11 > From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Sat Jun 18 01:52:47 2011 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 21:52:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates, NPR Morning Edition, June 15, 2011 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301cc2d5a$6c5a8540$450f8fc0$@wiennergould.com> Somebody had better sue. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ross Doerr Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:36 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates, NPR Morning Edition, June 15, 2011 I am appalled to hear this story. Twenty seven years ago when I began my trek to go to law school the LSAS refused accommodations for me that were, in any realistic sense, worth while. I won't bore those on this list with my tale of woe with the LSAS, but I will say that I had to take the test more than once and my scores were flagged with the warning that the score may not be valid because I'd been provided with a testing accommodation, and went on to take the GRE and the Master's program exam just to get test scores that would not say, up front, that I was a bad bet because I'd taken the LSAT with an accommodation. Why on earth is the LSAS still being permitted to get away with this? I've been practicing law since 1990 in two states with a pretty good record as an on-my-feet litigator and have proven myself in Administrative settings, state courts on almost all levels and in Federal court. I'm blind, and I think I've proven that the LSAS was just plain wrong with their out dated disability testing policy. I was rejected 10 times in my efforts to go to law school here in New England for exactly the same reason that Mr. Binno complains of. I was accepted into the University of Santa Clara School of law under their special appointments program, a program that may, or may not be in effect there any longer. But I can tell you that, at the time, Santa Clara was very near the top of the ratings that were then put out by the Gourrman report. IF memory serves me correctly, it was rated 12th in the nation at the time. IT is one of two Jesuit law schools (the other one being Georgetown) and I am very proud that they not only accepted me, but gave me a top notch legal education. They saw me as a good student who worked hard. Not as an LSAT score. In contrast, back when I was trying to get a decent score on the LSAT - I clearly recall being asked what I really had problems with in testing. My response was two fold - first, a bit of additional time to take the LSAT because it simply takes longer to read out loud than it does to read to yourself - and questions that depend upon visual ability, involving colors, graphs and diagrams, were simply unfair and almost impossible to deal with as a blind individual. Second, when the LSAS is communicating with me, handwritten letters in pencil simply defeat my adaptive technology, so if possible, could they please send me letters that are typewritten or on audio tape. They responded to me by postcard, handwritten in pencil. After the subsequent passage of the Americans With Disabilities Act and passage of enough time for the testing services to "catch up" with reality - I am stunned to hear that this prehistoric mentality continues to exist in professional testing services. In my opinion, and it is only one man's opinion, it is the LSAS that needs to be brought up short here and the ABA should be doing it. As a practicing attorney, I want to know why it is that individuals as well as businesses will do what normal, thinking people know to be legally, morally and fundamentally correct right after they have been snarled into a corner and ordered to do so by a Federal Judge, and not one minute before? In all my years of practice, I have never once seen a state or Federal law that prohibits logical reasoning, independent thought or common sense. The LSAS is not prohibited from modernizing its testing procedures relative to applicants with a disability of any sort, not just blindness. By the way, are law schools nationwide warned that the LSAS administers a test that is inaccurate for a known percentage of those tested with it? Somehow, I think not. Some things have improved though - for example, the days when lawyers ask me questions during a job interview like: "Did you take the real bar exam, or one of those tests for handicapped people?" And "Have you learned how to use a telephone yet?" Are no longer asked. And yes, those are both real questions that I have been asked in job interviews over past years. I'm sure others on this list have been asked some that are just as bad or worse. But then again, the unemployment rate among qualified lawyers with a visual impairment is still disgraceful in a profession that is supposed to pride itself on equality and justice. To again state my opinion, the ABA should be on the LSAS about their testing policy in this situation. This issue represents an embarrassment to the ABA, and a long standing problem that should have been hanged and buried a very long time ago. Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nightingale, Noel" To: Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 1:19 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates, NPR Morning Edition, June 15, 2011 > > Link: > http://www.npr.org/2011/06/15/137179261/blind-law-student-claims-discriminat ion-in-testing > > Text: > Blind Would-Be Law Student Says Test Discriminates > by Quinn Klinefelter > June 15, 2011 > Morning Edition > Transcript > > William Archie/Detroit Free Press > > Attorney Richard Bernstein (left) and Angelo Binno walk through the law > office of The Bernstein Law Firm in Farmington Hills, Mich., on May 24. > Binno, who is legally blind, is suing the American Bar Association, saying > its standards don't accommodate blind law school applicants. > > June 15, 2011 from WDET > A prospective law school student in Michigan is suing the American Bar > Association over a case he argues is truly a matter of blind justice. The > student says he is being denied access to top-tier law schools because of > a test he says no one who's blind could possibly pass. > > The Law School Admission Test, commonly known as the LSAT, typically > features more than a dozen questions where test takers are strongly > encouraged to draw out a written diagram to solve the problem. > > Law school hopeful Angelo Binno was born blind and has overcome many > obstacles. But, the 28-year-old says, he could not overcome the low test > scores he kept getting when taking the LSAT. And, because of those scores, > he was rejected by the three law schools he applied to. > > "I can't work any harder. I can't study any harder. I can't figure it out, > because I can't draw out a diagram like a sighted person can to figure out > the answers to these questions," Binno says. > > Binno is no slouch. He graduated from his high school a year early, had an > internship at a law firm after graduating and speaks three languages. He > also worked for the Department of Homeland Security before funding > cutbacks led to a layoff. > > But Binno says he was stymied in his attempt to become a lawyer because > the American Bar Association requires law schools to use a "valid and > reliable" admissions test. Only the LSAT qualifies. > > "The ABA is supposed to be standing up for justice," he says. "What are > they standing for in this situation? I'm not saying that I should receive > an automatic entrance into law school. All I'm saying is, give me a level > playing field," he says. > > Binno turned to a sympathetic friend for help. > > Attorney Richard Bernstein is blind, but he says he received a waiver to > enter law school 15 years ago. Shortly thereafter, the ABA revised its > standards and, Bernstein claims, threatened to penalize schools that gave > too many waivers or did not use the LSAT. > > Now, Bernstein is suing the ABA, arguing that the LSAT violates the > Americans with Disabilities Act. > > "They are basically forcing U.S. law schools to break federal law by > requiring applicants to take an illegal exam. The Americans with > Disabilities Act is very clear about this," Bernstein says. "It is illegal > to require someone to take an exam which, on its face, is discriminatory." > > In a written statement, the ABA says it requires universities it accredits > to conform to federal law, and that accommodations are made for people > with disabilities. > > Those who have judged law school applications, like Wayne State University > Professor David Moss, say some universities do accept students with low > LSAT scores. But, Moss says, the company creating the LSAT directs that > tests given with special accommodations - like those granted to blind > students - should not be given the same weight as regular LSATs. > > "They've got this flag on it that screams out, 'Beware of this test > result, it could be dangerous to your health,'" Moss says. > > Schools are concerned it might damage their rankings - and prestige - in > the annual ratings by U.S. News and World Report. > > Donald Polden, dean of Santa Clara University Law School, leads an ABA > committee reviewing accreditation standards. He says the ABA does grant > some schools exemptions from using the LSAT, but top-tier programs don't > want to risk their rankings. > > "The stories are legend about a five- or six-position swing in a school > has caused the loss of jobs of administrators or students to flee for > other law schools," he says. > > Polden says many on his committee think the ABA should eliminate the use > of the LSAT as a prerequisite to enter any law school. > > In the meantime, Angelo Binno waits for his day in court - not as the > attorney he hopes he'll eventually become, but as a plaintiff arguing that > his disability should not prevent him from reaching the top ranks of his > chosen profession. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunn er.com > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3707 - Release Date: 06/16/11 > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com From AZNOR99 at aol.com Sun Jun 19 00:30:19 2011 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 20:30:19 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] immigration question Message-ID: <182d9.43676b2b.3b2e9d1b@aol.com> Be careful. If he has a criminal background or has ever been in any immigration procedings in the past, they may not approve his visa. They also may choose not to renew his visa if he comes from a particular country with whom the U.S. does not offer humanitarian visa waivers. Finally, the 8-9 months is just an estimate; I've been aware of folks who've expected that and have been now waiting 8-10 years. I'd suggest that she contact USCIS directly to ask about her particular circumstances. There are also some situations when it's more appropriate to request political asylum (if warranted) rather than returning to the original country. Finally, there are certain situations when it isn't necessary to leave the U.S. at all to apply for a greencard. She can petition for an I-130 for him (spouse's petition for permanent residency) and while he's in procedings, they can't deport him or anything. Good luck. Ronza In a message dated 6/17/2011 10:54:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Susan.Kelly at pima.gov writes: I haven't done active immigration representation since I started at the public defenders' office, but from what I need to know to stay current for that position indicates that the information is correct. Humanitarian waivers are generally available for medical and similar purposes. My only concern might be the fact that if they have kids together, the feds will automatically know (or at least suspect) that he previously entered without documentation. I don't know if there will be a barrier because of that, or at least some sort of monetary fine... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Gilmore Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 7:18 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] immigration question Hi everyone, I had someone come to me with a question about visas (of which I know nothing about.) The situation is this: A woman is an American citizen and wants to get her husband (an illegal) a visa. She is going to be under the care of a medical professional soon. She was told by an immigration attorney that her husband would have to return to his homeland for eight months to a year and would be able to come back due to the attorney obtaining a visa waiver because he (husband) is the only one who can help take care of the kids since she (wife) will be under medical care. Anyway, I guess I was the "second opinion" so to speak. The attorney who told her this used to work for the feds so I don't know why I'm being asked. (I would think the attorney would know if anyone would.) Any assistance that any of you can give me would be very much appreciated. Thanks. Mike _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima .gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From mgmckay1963 at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 00:50:35 2011 From: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com (Michael McKay) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 21:50:35 -0300 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: Message-ID: Greetings! all: My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later then the end of March 2012. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Respectfully! -- *Michael G. McKay * *70 Grove Crescent,* *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* *Canada. P6B 5V4* E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 01:16:43 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 19:16:43 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com> Hi, Michael. Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts accommodated tests without a red flag. Good luck Beth Taurasi Sent from my iPod On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay wrote: > Greetings! all: > > My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look forword to > participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also > contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick > Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I > was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam called > an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have access to > a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of > the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later then > the end of March 2012. > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. > > Respectfully! > > -- > *Michael G. McKay > * > *70 Grove Crescent,* > *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* > *Canada. P6B 5V4* > E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com From mgmckay1963 at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 01:25:33 2011 From: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com (Michael McKay) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 22:25:33 -0300 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com> References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Beth: Thanks for the reply. Do you have a website url for the NPR story of LSAT. If so, I would like to access it. I spoke to the admissions officer, and she said that they would be willing to accomidate. Please re-reply with the NPR story url, when you are able. Thanks much again, for the advice Michael G. McKay On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Beth wrote: > Hi, Michael. > Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get into law > school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second look before you > take it, and > be sure the Canadian Bar accepts accommodated tests without a red flag. > Good luck > Beth Taurasi > Sent from my iPod > > On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay wrote: > > > Greetings! all: > > > > My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look forword > to > > participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also > > contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick > > Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. > I > > was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam > called > > an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have access > to > > a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost > of > > the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later > then > > the end of March 2012. > > > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Respectfully! > > > > -- > > *Michael G. McKay > > * > > *70 Grove Crescent,* > > *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* > > *Canada. P6B 5V4* > > E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mgmckay1963%40gmail.com > -- *Michael G. McKay * *70 Grove Crescent,* *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* *Canada. P6B 5V4* E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 02:05:51 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 20:05:51 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com> Message-ID: I don't have the exact url for the story, but it's at the NPR website. You could probably do a search for the LSAT story. I believe the headline read something like "Blind would-be law student sues ABA" or something to that effect. URL's are hard for anybody to memorize because it's kind of long. What doesn't help is that I have the app on my iPod. Beth Sent from my iPod On Jun 18, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Michael McKay wrote: > Hi Beth: > > Thanks for the reply. Do you have a website url for the NPR story of LSAT. > If so, I would like to access it. I spoke to the admissions officer, and she > said that they would be willing to accomidate. Please re-reply with the NPR > story url, when you are able. > > Thanks much again, for the advice > > Michael G. McKay > > On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Beth wrote: > >> Hi, Michael. >> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get into law >> school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second look before you >> take it, and >> be sure the Canadian Bar accepts accommodated tests without a red flag. >> Good luck >> Beth Taurasi >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay wrote: >> >>> Greetings! all: >>> >>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look forword >> to >>> participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also >>> contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick >>> Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. >> I >>> was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam >> called >>> an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have access >> to >>> a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost >> of >>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later >> then >>> the end of March 2012. >>> >>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks in advance. >>> >>> Respectfully! >>> >>> -- >>> *Michael G. McKay >>> * >>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info fo >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mgmckay1963%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > *Michael G. McKay > * > *70 Grove Crescent,* > *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* > *Canada. P6B 5V4* > E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com From mgmckay1963 at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 02:36:55 2011 From: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com (Michael McKay) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 23:36:55 -0300 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Beth: Thanks for this. I will vheck it out, and let you know. Blessings! Michael G. McKay E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 11:05 PM, Beth wrote: > I don't have the exact url for the story, but it's at the NPR website. You > could probably do a search for the LSAT story. I believe the headline read > something like "Blind would-be law student sues ABA" or something to that > effect. URL's are hard for anybody to memorize because it's kind of long. > What doesn't help is that I have the app on my iPod. > Beth > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jun 18, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Michael McKay wrote: > > > Hi Beth: > > > > Thanks for the reply. Do you have a website url for the NPR story of > LSAT. > > If so, I would like to access it. I spoke to the admissions officer, and > she > > said that they would be willing to accomidate. Please re-reply with the > NPR > > story url, when you are able. > > > > Thanks much again, for the advice > > > > Michael G. McKay > > > > On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Beth > wrote: > > > >> Hi, Michael. > >> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get into > law > >> school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second look before you > >> take it, and > >> be sure the Canadian Bar accepts accommodated tests without a red flag. > >> Good luck > >> Beth Taurasi > >> Sent from my iPod > >> > >> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay > wrote: > >> > >>> Greetings! all: > >>> > >>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look > forword > >> to > >>> participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also > >>> contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick > >>> Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's > Campus. > >> I > >>> was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam > >> called > >>> an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have > access > >> to > >>> a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the > cost > >> of > >>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later > >> then > >>> the end of March 2012. > >>> > >>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > >>> > >>> Thanks in advance. > >>> > >>> Respectfully! > >>> > >>> -- > >>> *Michael G. McKay > >>> * > >>> *70 Grove Crescent,* > >>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* > >>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* > >>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info fo > >> blindlaw: > >> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mgmckay1963%40gmail.com > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > *Michael G. McKay > > * > > *70 Grove Crescent,* > > *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* > > *Canada. P6B 5V4* > > E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mgmckay1963%40gmail.com > -- *Michael G. McKay * *70 Grove Crescent,* *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* *Canada. P6B 5V4* E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com From emrene at earthlink.net Sun Jun 19 03:22:36 2011 From: emrene at earthlink.net (Elizabeth Rene) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 20:22:36 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says Test Discriminates - NPR Message-ID: <91AAF0CBEF90432EA524A8EA85C170D2@elizabethrene> I too am appalled that aspiring law students are hindered in their efforts to gain law school admission by the structure of the LSAT and by the conditions on which the test is given and interpreted. But something about the NPR article bothers me, and it jumps up to bite me right in the first paragraph. Are blind college grads really getting low LSAT scores because they are invited to draw diagrams for themselves in order to ease their approach to complex questions? Or is that just something an uninitiated reporter gleaned from a complex interview in hopes of reaching the general public? Only well into the article did I read that law schools are still warned that an LSAT test taken with reasonable accommodations has questionable validity, and that top-tier schools decline an option to disregard the LSAT altogether. Granted, one would think that the validity of standardized academic aptitude test scores earned under the tightly controlled conditions on which specific accommodations have been granted over the past 50 years or so should have been proven by now. If not, why not? And if there are pictures or diagrams in the test questions themselves that can't be replicated tactilely for blind students, why is that so? But if the whole thrust of a blind person's argument for higher education or employment is that he or she can find alternate means to solve a sighted person's problems, why should that blind test-taker balk at being invited to draw a picture to help him or her think more clearly? That diagram's only for ordinary people. If one doesn't think visually, noone can make him do that for a test. And what about this concern about top-tier law schools? Didn't Jacobus Tenbroek graduate from UC Berkeley's Boalt Hall? Or was it Stanford? Didn't the NFB's own Peggy Pinder get her JD from Harvard or Yale? What did they do with the LSAT? I took the LSAT in early 1975. I had to wait three years from leaving college for permission to take it in Braille, with an amanuensis to write the answers. The dreaded warning went with my scores. But I got accepted by three of the six law schools I applied to, and waiting listed by the other three. Had my undergraduate grades been better, those other schools might have accepted me, too. After law school, I got to do the work I wanted. And I had to deal with visual evidence, and to make visual evidence understandable to juries and to appellate judges every day. And as every lawyer knows, this had to be done in an adversary setting. Yes, I agree that the LSAT, the GRE, and other such tests have to be made more accessible so as not to discriminate unlawfully. But maybe they're a wake-up call to those who might be confronted for the first time with what they'll encounter on the job. And maybe that second- or third-tier law school, with a fat scholarship for those who excel, might not look so bad. One great thing about there being more and more of us blind lawyers and other professionals is that no one needs to pull blind test-taking and lawyering skills from the air. They've already been learned, and they can be shared. Elizabeth From william.burley3 at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 04:24:05 2011 From: william.burley3 at gmail.com (William Burley, III) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 23:24:05 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? Message-ID: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> Hello all! Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and accessibility. If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to using this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many others using Windows products? Thanks for any information! William Burley, III (713) 614-3322 William.burley3 at gmail.com Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more details. Need better internet service for cheaper? Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up TODAY! Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 15:18:06 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 11:18:06 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > Hi, Michael. > Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get into law > school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second look before you > take it, and > be sure the Canadian Bar accepts accommodated tests without a red flag. > Good luck > Beth Taurasi > Sent from my iPod > > On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay wrote: > >> Greetings! all: >> >> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look forword >> to >> participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also >> contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick >> Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. >> I >> was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam >> called >> an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have access >> to >> a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost >> of >> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later >> then >> the end of March 2012. >> >> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Respectfully! >> >> -- >> *Michael G. McKay >> * >> *70 Grove Crescent,* >> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From pattichang at att.net Sun Jun 19 15:45:45 2011 From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory-Chang) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 10:45:45 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91> I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Burley, III" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > Hello all! > > > > Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly > switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and > accessibility. > > > > If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to > using > this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? > What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many > others using Windows products? > > > > Thanks for any information! > > > > > > William Burley, III > > (713) 614-3322 > > William.burley3 at gmail.com > > > > Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! > > Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more > details. > > > > Need better internet service for cheaper? > > Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up > TODAY! > > > > Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 19 15:50:56 2011 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 08:50:56 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: <004a01cc2e98$ae2b9420$6b01a8c0@server> Hello Everyone, This discussion would be useful for many of us, so please share your posts with everyone. Thanks, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? >I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access >issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Burley, III" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > >> Hello all! >> >> >> >> Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering >> possibly >> switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and >> accessibility. >> >> >> >> If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to >> using >> this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? >> What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many >> others using Windows products? >> >> >> >> Thanks for any information! >> >> >> >> >> >> William Burley, III >> >> (713) 614-3322 >> >> William.burley3 at gmail.com >> >> >> >> Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, >> L.L.C.! >> >> Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more >> details. >> >> >> >> Need better internet service for cheaper? >> >> Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up >> TODAY! >> >> >> >> Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Sun Jun 19 16:07:41 2011 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 12:07:41 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <001001cc2e9b$04cc7ae0$0e6570a0$@wiennergould.com> I'm no tech guy, but here are some of my observations and hard lessons I have learned. I hope this helps somebody. I hear Macs are very accessible, but I've never tried one. However, the ipad and iphone are absolutely fantastic. The only thing with a mac is that microsoft office is not accessible at all. Apple's word processor, pages, is accessible, and is apparently 99% word compatible. However, I might be afraid of some formatting compatibility issues between pages and word, although your docs should be pretty simple and maybe you won't have any. That is the issue I would want to get feedback on though. Email and web access should not be a problem. As far as third party programs which are accessible on a mac, I hear good things, but have no firsthand knowledge. If you don't mind me asking, What accessibility issues are you having with jaws? I know jaws has had issues with Westlaw, but all you have to do after you log in is shut jaws off and turn it back on, and Westlaw seems to work fine. I don't even use the text addition of Westlaw, as I want all the features the full website offers. I am a trial attorney, and I use jaws with few issues. The only thing with jaws is that, in my experience, there are some web pages it simply won't read completely. Window-eyes will read many pages that jaws will not read. Jaws has never caught up with GW micro on web access, but window-eyes doesn't have all the features that jaws has, and can be more cumbersome to use. Also, jaws works better in word and outlook. Also, window-eyes has some bugs right now with windows 7. I did learn recently that if you are using jaws 12 in word, you will notice that office 2010 is real responsive. But apparently, in making word 2010 work so well, they somehow broke word 2003, because jaws 12 is very unresponsive in word 2003. If you have issues reading emails in word 2010 or 2007, you can display the email in HTML format by using the following keystrokes: alt H, A, V. Office 2010 uses word, rather than the browser, to display emails, and they can be hard to read. But once you get use to the keystrokes to dump unreadable emails into an HTML window, you can pretty much read most emails. Hope this helps somebody out there. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William Burley, III Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 12:24 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? Hello all! Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and accessibility. If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to using this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many others using Windows products? Thanks for any information! William Burley, III (713) 614-3322 William.burley3 at gmail.com Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more details. Need better internet service for cheaper? Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up TODAY! Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Sun Jun 19 16:12:52 2011 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 12:12:52 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <004a01cc2e98$ae2b9420$6b01a8c0@server> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91> <004a01cc2e98$ae2b9420$6b01a8c0@server> Message-ID: <001101cc2e9b$bdf79630$39e6c290$@wiennergould.com> I just wrote to Patti off list, but I think this is right. We can all learn from other folks accessibility war stories. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Clark Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:51 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? Hello Everyone, This discussion would be useful for many of us, so please share your posts with everyone. Thanks, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? >I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access >issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Burley, III" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > >> Hello all! >> >> >> >> Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering >> possibly >> switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and >> accessibility. >> >> >> >> If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to >> using >> this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? >> What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many >> others using Windows products? >> >> >> >> Thanks for any information! >> >> >> >> >> >> William Burley, III >> >> (713) 614-3322 >> >> William.burley3 at gmail.com >> >> >> >> Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, >> L.L.C.! >> >> Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more >> details. >> >> >> >> Need better internet service for cheaper? >> >> Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up >> TODAY! >> >> >> >> Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbc global.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 19 18:14:42 2011 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 11:14:42 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <001101cc2e9b$bdf79630$39e6c290$@wiennergould.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91> <004a01cc2e98$ae2b9420$6b01a8c0@server> <001101cc2e9b$bdf79630$39e6c290$@wiennergould.com> Message-ID: <2F37C39C-5507-4822-95C7-37F2FC16CA74@sbcglobal.net> I use a mac for almost everything, for what it's worth. I offer tutoring services (write of list) or will just answer questions if I can. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I use a Mac and like it MUCH better than the PC. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 20:00:50 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 14:00:50 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: <92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn> References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com> <92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate material on it. Beth Sent from my iPod On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" wrote: > Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> Hi, Michael. >> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second look before you take it, and >> be sure the Canadian Bar accepts accommodated tests without a red flag. >> Good luck >> Beth Taurasi >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay wrote: >> >>> Greetings! all: >>> >>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look forword to >>> participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also >>> contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick >>> Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I >>> was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam called >>> an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have access to >>> a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later then >>> the end of March 2012. >>> >>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks in advance. >>> >>> Respectfully! >>> >>> -- >>> *Michael G. McKay >>> * >>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 20:10:39 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 16:10:39 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn> I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the LSAT is > what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. Remember those > things on the SAT? The only difference is that having accommodations on > this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate material on it. > Beth > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" > wrote: > >> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> Hi, Michael. >>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get into >>> law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second look before >>> you take it, and >>> be sure the Canadian Bar accepts accommodated tests without a red flag. >>> Good luck >>> Beth Taurasi >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Greetings! all: >>>> >>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>> forword to >>>> participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also >>>> contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick >>>> Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's >>>> Campus. I >>>> was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam >>>> called >>>> an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have >>>> access to >>>> a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the >>>> cost of >>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later >>>> then >>>> the end of March 2012. >>>> >>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance. >>>> >>>> Respectfully! >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>> * >>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From lists at zufelt.ca Sun Jun 19 20:17:05 2011 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 16:17:05 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: <2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn> References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn> <2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Good afternoon Michael, I did a year of law at UNB. They were very accommodating. After doing reasonably well on the LSAT I was given a $10k entrance scholarship. I have no idea if there is an alternate way of paying for the LSAT, but you should find UNB to be a comfortable law school to study at. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-06-19, at 4:10 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate material on it. >> Beth >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" wrote: >> >>> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>>> Hi, Michael. >>>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second look before you take it, and >>>> be sure the Canadian Bar accepts accommodated tests without a red flag. >>>> Good luck >>>> Beth Taurasi >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay wrote: >>>> >>>>> Greetings! all: >>>>> >>>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look forword to >>>>> participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also >>>>> contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick >>>>> Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I >>>>> was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam called >>>>> an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have access to >>>>> a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later then >>>>> the end of March 2012. >>>>> >>>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully! >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>>> * >>>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 19 20:37:15 2011 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 13:37:15 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><004a01cc2e98$ae2b9420$6b01a8c0@server><001101cc2e9b$bdf79630$39e6c290$@wiennergould.com> <2F37C39C-5507-4822-95C7-37F2FC16CA74@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <008101cc2ec0$ad9d7dc0$6b01a8c0@server> Hello Mark and everyone, It will be very helpful for us to hear from blind users who have real world experience using the Mac. I have just spent a month upgrading to Windows 7 as a result of needing new server hardware, and we are still limping along with less functionality than before the upgrade. The cost to me in lost time, lost functionality, decreased efficiency of my employees and myself, and the cost of paying my employees salaries while they figure out how to do their work in this new and unfamiliar environment is totally unwarranted. As a result I have decided that we will be moving to a Mac or Linux solution, and I am hopeful that it can be the Mac using voiceover. Since one of my objectives is to eliminate Windows based programs from my office if possible, I am not interested in using bootcamp or fusion. If you could tell us about the programs you have used with voiceover, and which have worked well and which have not, it would be very valuable. As attorneys we more often than not work with M.S. Word files, though I do not think that this means we must use M.S. Word or office. Which Apple Mac word processors have you used with voiceover, and are they able to open, work with, and then save files in Word format? Next, I would be curious to know which Apple Mac email programs are provided with or can be purchased with the Mac, and how well they work with Voiceover. How easy is it to save attachments with these programs, and how easy is it to create folders and move messages into them from the inbox. Next, which web browsers are provided or available for the Mac using Voiceover, and what are their pros and cons when compared to IE or Firebox? Have you had any experience with backup software for the Mac, since this is very important for a law firm? For those of us who are blind, optical character recognition software has become an important part of our accessibility arsenal. I was pleased to learn this morning that ABBY Finereader has a version of their OCR software for the Mac called Abby Express. I use ABBYY frequently on our Windows machines, so this removes a big obstacle when considering whether or not to move to the Mac. Have you had any experience with this program or any other OCR software on the Mac? The only criticism that I saw about ABBY Express, was that it uses a twain interface, which is apparently not standard on the Mac. Other than that, users thought it did an excellent job on optical character recognition. Have you read or scanned books on the Mac, and if so, what scanner and software do you use? I do most of my reading with Kurzweil under Windows, because I like many of its features such as that both lines and pages can be of any length, and are not artificially imposed as is the case with most word processors such as M.S. Word. This is particularly important for reading books, where one must know their actual location in a book to create accurate citations. Additionally, I find Kurzweil's multilevel bookmark system to be very helpful when reading case documents and pleadings. I have been hoping that Kurzweil would make a Mac version available, but I have heard nothing to suggest that this might happen. I want to thank Mark and others for reading this lengthy email, and I would really appreciate hearing your thoughts. All the best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? >I use a mac for almost everything, for what it's worth. I offer tutoring >services (write of list) or will just answer questions if I can. I'm not a >lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I use a Mac and like it MUCH better >than the PC. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From william.burley3 at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 22:00:53 2011 From: william.burley3 at gmail.com (William Burley, III) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 17:00:53 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <001001cc2e9b$04cc7ae0$0e6570a0$@wiennergould.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <001001cc2e9b$04cc7ae0$0e6570a0$@wiennergould.com> Message-ID: <4dfe71a3.13c7640a.684d.ffff939d@mx.google.com> Hi Daniel. I think this e-mail helps. The accessibility issues that I'm having with Jaws is that it simply crashes too much for my taste and I've gone through almost a week of not being able to work because FS broke my license and nothing seemed to work to get it going again until today. I wasn't able to respond to a couple potential clients because my Jaws completely stopped working and for some reason, the free screen readers out there wouldn't work for me or I just simply did something wrong in trying to use them. I'm just tired of having a constant struggle with FS and it's either not working for prolonged periods of time or intermittently not working for up to 5 minutes or until I do a hard reboot. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel K. Beitz Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:08 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I'm no tech guy, but here are some of my observations and hard lessons I have learned. I hope this helps somebody. I hear Macs are very accessible, but I've never tried one. However, the ipad and iphone are absolutely fantastic. The only thing with a mac is that microsoft office is not accessible at all. Apple's word processor, pages, is accessible, and is apparently 99% word compatible. However, I might be afraid of some formatting compatibility issues between pages and word, although your docs should be pretty simple and maybe you won't have any. That is the issue I would want to get feedback on though. Email and web access should not be a problem. As far as third party programs which are accessible on a mac, I hear good things, but have no firsthand knowledge. If you don't mind me asking, What accessibility issues are you having with jaws? I know jaws has had issues with Westlaw, but all you have to do after you log in is shut jaws off and turn it back on, and Westlaw seems to work fine. I don't even use the text addition of Westlaw, as I want all the features the full website offers. I am a trial attorney, and I use jaws with few issues. The only thing with jaws is that, in my experience, there are some web pages it simply won't read completely. Window-eyes will read many pages that jaws will not read. Jaws has never caught up with GW micro on web access, but window-eyes doesn't have all the features that jaws has, and can be more cumbersome to use. Also, jaws works better in word and outlook. Also, window-eyes has some bugs right now with windows 7. I did learn recently that if you are using jaws 12 in word, you will notice that office 2010 is real responsive. But apparently, in making word 2010 work so well, they somehow broke word 2003, because jaws 12 is very unresponsive in word 2003. If you have issues reading emails in word 2010 or 2007, you can display the email in HTML format by using the following keystrokes: alt H, A, V. Office 2010 uses word, rather than the browser, to display emails, and they can be hard to read. But once you get use to the keystrokes to dump unreadable emails into an HTML window, you can pretty much read most emails. Hope this helps somebody out there. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William Burley, III Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 12:24 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? Hello all! Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and accessibility. If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to using this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many others using Windows products? Thanks for any information! William Burley, III (713) 614-3322 William.burley3 at gmail.com Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more details. Need better internet service for cheaper? Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up TODAY! Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 gmail.com From william.burley3 at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 22:02:56 2011 From: william.burley3 at gmail.com (William Burley, III) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 17:02:56 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: <4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> Hi Patti. I think my general accessibility issues is just wanting to find something that works consistently and I'm having more and more consistent trouble with Jaws. I'm not generally sure what to ask other than what the other gentleman asked as far as applications and the useability when working in an industry that is heavily Windows based. Thanks for any info. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:46 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Burley, III" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > Hello all! > > > > Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly > switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and > accessibility. > > > > If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to > using > this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? > What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many > others using Windows products? > > > > Thanks for any information! > > > > > > William Burley, III > > (713) 614-3322 > > William.burley3 at gmail.com > > > > Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! > > Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more > details. > > > > Need better internet service for cheaper? > > Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up > TODAY! > > > > Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 gmail.com From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Sun Jun 19 23:21:58 2011 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 19:21:58 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <4dfe71a3.13c7640a.684d.ffff939d@mx.google.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <001001cc2e9b$04cc7ae0$0e6570a0$@wiennergould.com> <4dfe71a3.13c7640a.684d.ffff939d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <001b01cc2ed7$afc8a3b0$0f59eb10$@wiennergould.com> This doesn't sound right. It sounds to me like there is something wrong with your PC. Jaws is pretty solid, although by no means perfect. You should not have so many crashes. If you can get cited help, you might try a system cleaner, such as registry mechanic. That has really cleaned up my PC. But first, you should go to MSconfig and uncheck anything in startup that you don't need. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William Burley, III Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 6:01 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? Hi Daniel. I think this e-mail helps. The accessibility issues that I'm having with Jaws is that it simply crashes too much for my taste and I've gone through almost a week of not being able to work because FS broke my license and nothing seemed to work to get it going again until today. I wasn't able to respond to a couple potential clients because my Jaws completely stopped working and for some reason, the free screen readers out there wouldn't work for me or I just simply did something wrong in trying to use them. I'm just tired of having a constant struggle with FS and it's either not working for prolonged periods of time or intermittently not working for up to 5 minutes or until I do a hard reboot. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel K. Beitz Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:08 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I'm no tech guy, but here are some of my observations and hard lessons I have learned. I hope this helps somebody. I hear Macs are very accessible, but I've never tried one. However, the ipad and iphone are absolutely fantastic. The only thing with a mac is that microsoft office is not accessible at all. Apple's word processor, pages, is accessible, and is apparently 99% word compatible. However, I might be afraid of some formatting compatibility issues between pages and word, although your docs should be pretty simple and maybe you won't have any. That is the issue I would want to get feedback on though. Email and web access should not be a problem. As far as third party programs which are accessible on a mac, I hear good things, but have no firsthand knowledge. If you don't mind me asking, What accessibility issues are you having with jaws? I know jaws has had issues with Westlaw, but all you have to do after you log in is shut jaws off and turn it back on, and Westlaw seems to work fine. I don't even use the text addition of Westlaw, as I want all the features the full website offers. I am a trial attorney, and I use jaws with few issues. The only thing with jaws is that, in my experience, there are some web pages it simply won't read completely. Window-eyes will read many pages that jaws will not read. Jaws has never caught up with GW micro on web access, but window-eyes doesn't have all the features that jaws has, and can be more cumbersome to use. Also, jaws works better in word and outlook. Also, window-eyes has some bugs right now with windows 7. I did learn recently that if you are using jaws 12 in word, you will notice that office 2010 is real responsive. But apparently, in making word 2010 work so well, they somehow broke word 2003, because jaws 12 is very unresponsive in word 2003. If you have issues reading emails in word 2010 or 2007, you can display the email in HTML format by using the following keystrokes: alt H, A, V. Office 2010 uses word, rather than the browser, to display emails, and they can be hard to read. But once you get use to the keystrokes to dump unreadable emails into an HTML window, you can pretty much read most emails. Hope this helps somebody out there. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William Burley, III Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 12:24 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? Hello all! Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and accessibility. If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to using this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many others using Windows products? Thanks for any information! William Burley, III (713) 614-3322 William.burley3 at gmail.com Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more details. Need better internet service for cheaper? Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up TODAY! Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Sun Jun 19 23:21:58 2011 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 19:21:58 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <008101cc2ec0$ad9d7dc0$6b01a8c0@server> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><004a01cc2e98$ae2b9420$6b01a8c0@server><001101cc2e9b$bdf79630$39e6c290$@wiennergould.com> <2F37C39C-5507-4822-95C7-37F2FC16CA74@sbcglobal.net> <008101cc2ec0$ad9d7dc0$6b01a8c0@server> Message-ID: <001a01cc2ed7$afaba5d0$0f02f170$@wiennergould.com> I know the answer to some of your questions. First, apple comes with a great email program and safari, a web browser. Both of these are accessible. Apple Pages is a part of the IWork suite of programs, which can be purchased for $79.00 with each mac. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Clark Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:37 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? Hello Mark and everyone, It will be very helpful for us to hear from blind users who have real world experience using the Mac. I have just spent a month upgrading to Windows 7 as a result of needing new server hardware, and we are still limping along with less functionality than before the upgrade. The cost to me in lost time, lost functionality, decreased efficiency of my employees and myself, and the cost of paying my employees salaries while they figure out how to do their work in this new and unfamiliar environment is totally unwarranted. As a result I have decided that we will be moving to a Mac or Linux solution, and I am hopeful that it can be the Mac using voiceover. Since one of my objectives is to eliminate Windows based programs from my office if possible, I am not interested in using bootcamp or fusion. If you could tell us about the programs you have used with voiceover, and which have worked well and which have not, it would be very valuable. As attorneys we more often than not work with M.S. Word files, though I do not think that this means we must use M.S. Word or office. Which Apple Mac word processors have you used with voiceover, and are they able to open, work with, and then save files in Word format? Next, I would be curious to know which Apple Mac email programs are provided with or can be purchased with the Mac, and how well they work with Voiceover. How easy is it to save attachments with these programs, and how easy is it to create folders and move messages into them from the inbox. Next, which web browsers are provided or available for the Mac using Voiceover, and what are their pros and cons when compared to IE or Firebox? Have you had any experience with backup software for the Mac, since this is very important for a law firm? For those of us who are blind, optical character recognition software has become an important part of our accessibility arsenal. I was pleased to learn this morning that ABBY Finereader has a version of their OCR software for the Mac called Abby Express. I use ABBYY frequently on our Windows machines, so this removes a big obstacle when considering whether or not to move to the Mac. Have you had any experience with this program or any other OCR software on the Mac? The only criticism that I saw about ABBY Express, was that it uses a twain interface, which is apparently not standard on the Mac. Other than that, users thought it did an excellent job on optical character recognition. Have you read or scanned books on the Mac, and if so, what scanner and software do you use? I do most of my reading with Kurzweil under Windows, because I like many of its features such as that both lines and pages can be of any length, and are not artificially imposed as is the case with most word processors such as M.S. Word. This is particularly important for reading books, where one must know their actual location in a book to create accurate citations. Additionally, I find Kurzweil's multilevel bookmark system to be very helpful when reading case documents and pleadings. I have been hoping that Kurzweil would make a Mac version available, but I have heard nothing to suggest that this might happen. I want to thank Mark and others for reading this lengthy email, and I would really appreciate hearing your thoughts. All the best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? >I use a mac for almost everything, for what it's worth. I offer tutoring >services (write of list) or will just answer questions if I can. I'm not a >lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I use a Mac and like it MUCH better >than the PC. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbc global.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com From dravant at ameritech.net Mon Jun 20 00:06:47 2011 From: dravant at ameritech.net (Denise Avant) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 19:06:47 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <008101cc2ec0$ad9d7dc0$6b01a8c0@server> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><004a01cc2e98$ae2b9420$6b01a8c0@server><001101cc2e9b$bdf79630$39e6c290$@wiennergould.com> <2F37C39C-5507-4822-95C7-37F2FC16CA74@sbcglobal.net> <008101cc2ec0$ad9d7dc0$6b01a8c0@server> Message-ID: <2DFA3681-3006-4FAA-A845-9E2FD7162D17@ameritech.net> hello all, as far as word processing, if you do not want to use pages, you can use text edit which comes as part of the apple mac system. you can save files in word compatible format. i do not know as of yet whether how much formatting you can do. i know you all may not want to hear this, but there are a couple of mac lists, one of which is maccessiability. it is a high traffic list. you may find more lawyers and law students, students in particular who have used the mac to type briefs, memos, and complaints on a mac. On Jun 19, 2011, at 3:37 PM, Dennis Clark wrote: > Hello Mark and everyone, > > It will be very helpful for us to hear from blind users who have real world experience using the Mac. I have just spent a month upgrading to Windows 7 as a result of needing new server hardware, and we are still limping along with less functionality than before the upgrade. The cost to me in lost time, lost functionality, decreased efficiency of my employees and myself, and the cost of paying my employees salaries while they figure out how to do their work in this new and unfamiliar environment is totally unwarranted. As a result I have decided that we will be moving to a Mac or Linux solution, and I am hopeful that it can be the Mac using voiceover. Since one of my objectives is to eliminate Windows based programs from my office if possible, I am not interested in using bootcamp or fusion. If you could tell us about the programs you have used with voiceover, and which have worked well and which have not, it would be very valuable. > > As attorneys we more often than not work with M.S. Word files, though I do not think that this means we must use M.S. Word or office. Which Apple Mac word processors have you used with voiceover, and are they able to open, work with, and then save files in Word format? > > Next, I would be curious to know which Apple Mac email programs are provided with or can be purchased with the Mac, and how well they work with Voiceover. How easy is it to save attachments with these programs, and how easy is it to create folders and move messages into them from the inbox. > > Next, which web browsers are provided or available for the Mac using Voiceover, and what are their pros and cons when compared to IE or Firebox? > > Have you had any experience with backup software for the Mac, since this is very important for a law firm? > > For those of us who are blind, optical character recognition software has become an important part of our accessibility arsenal. I was pleased to learn this morning that ABBY Finereader has a version of their OCR software for the Mac called Abby Express. I use ABBYY frequently on our Windows machines, so this removes a big obstacle when considering whether or not to move to the Mac. Have you had any experience with this program or any other OCR software on the Mac? The only criticism that I saw about ABBY Express, was that it uses a twain interface, which is apparently not standard on the Mac. Other than that, users thought it did an excellent job on optical character recognition. > > Have you read or scanned books on the Mac, and if so, what scanner and software do you use? I do most of my reading with Kurzweil under Windows, because I like many of its features such as that both lines and pages can be of any length, and are not artificially imposed as is the case with most word processors such as M.S. Word. This is particularly important for reading books, where one must know their actual location in a book to create accurate citations. Additionally, I find Kurzweil's multilevel bookmark system to be very helpful when reading case documents and pleadings. I have been hoping that Kurzweil would make a Mac version available, but I have heard nothing to suggest that this might happen. > > I want to thank Mark and others for reading this lengthy email, and I would really appreciate hearing your thoughts. > > All the best, > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:14 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > >> I use a mac for almost everything, for what it's worth. I offer tutoring services (write of list) or will just answer questions if I can. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I use a Mac and like it MUCH better than the PC. >> >> Mark BurningHawk >> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >> Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >> Namaste! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net From william.burley3 at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 03:27:09 2011 From: william.burley3 at gmail.com (William Burley) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 22:27:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <001b01cc2ed7$afc8a3b0$0f59eb10$@wiennergould.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <001001cc2e9b$04cc7ae0$0e6570a0$@wiennergould.com> <4dfe71a3.13c7640a.684d.ffff939d@mx.google.com> <001b01cc2ed7$afc8a3b0$0f59eb10$@wiennergould.com> Message-ID: Done that to no avail. I still would like to know pros and cons of switching. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 19, 2011, at 6:21 PM, "Daniel K. Beitz" wrote: > This doesn't sound right. It sounds to me like there is something wrong > with your PC. Jaws is pretty solid, although by no means perfect. You > should not have so many crashes. If you can get cited help, you might try a > system cleaner, such as registry mechanic. That has really cleaned up my > PC. But first, you should go to MSconfig and uncheck anything in startup > that you don't need. > > ------------------------------------------- > Daniel K. Beitz > Wienner & Gould, P.C. > 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 > Rochester, MI 48307 > Phone: (248) 841-9405 > Fax: (248) 652-2729 > dbeitz at wiennergould.com > This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages > attached > to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If > you are > not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this > email > to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, > copying, > or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or > attached to > this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in > error, > please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by > telephoning > us at (248) 841-9400. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of William Burley, III > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 6:01 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > Hi Daniel. > > I think this e-mail helps. The accessibility issues that I'm having with > Jaws is that it simply crashes too much for my taste and I've gone through > almost a week of not being able to work because FS broke my license and > nothing seemed to work to get it going again until today. I wasn't able to > respond to a couple potential clients because my Jaws completely stopped > working and for some reason, the free screen readers out there wouldn't work > for me or I just simply did something wrong in trying to use them. I'm just > tired of having a constant struggle with FS and it's either not working for > prolonged periods of time or intermittently not working for up to 5 minutes > or until I do a hard reboot. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Daniel K. Beitz > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:08 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I'm no tech guy, but here are some of my observations and hard lessons I > have learned. I hope this helps somebody. > > I hear Macs are very accessible, but I've never tried one. However, the > ipad and iphone are absolutely fantastic. The only thing with a mac is that > microsoft office is not accessible at all. Apple's word processor, pages, > is accessible, and is apparently 99% word compatible. However, I might be > afraid of some formatting compatibility issues between pages and word, > although your docs should be pretty simple and maybe you won't have any. > That is the issue I would want to get feedback on though. Email and web > access should not be a problem. As far as third party programs which are > accessible on a mac, I hear good things, but have no firsthand knowledge. > > If you don't mind me asking, What accessibility issues are you having with > jaws? I know jaws has had issues with Westlaw, but all you have to do after > you log in is shut jaws off and turn it back on, and Westlaw seems to work > fine. I don't even use the text addition of Westlaw, as I want all the > features the full website offers. I am a trial attorney, and I use jaws > with few issues. The only thing with jaws is that, in my experience, there > are some web pages it simply won't read completely. Window-eyes will read > many pages that jaws will not read. Jaws has never caught up with GW micro > on web access, but window-eyes doesn't have all the features that jaws has, > and can be more cumbersome to use. Also, jaws works better in word and > outlook. Also, window-eyes has some bugs right now with windows 7. > > I did learn recently that if you are using jaws 12 in word, you will notice > that office 2010 is real responsive. But apparently, in making word 2010 > work so well, they somehow broke word 2003, because jaws 12 is very > unresponsive in word 2003. > > If you have issues reading emails in word 2010 or 2007, you can display the > email in HTML format by using the following keystrokes: alt H, A, V. > Office 2010 uses word, rather than the browser, to display emails, and they > can be hard to read. But once you get use to the keystrokes to dump > unreadable emails into an HTML window, you can pretty much read most emails. > > Hope this helps somebody out there. > > ------------------------------------------- > Daniel K. Beitz > Wienner & Gould, P.C. > 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 > Rochester, MI 48307 > Phone: (248) 841-9405 > Fax: (248) 652-2729 > dbeitz at wiennergould.com > This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages > attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual > responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are > hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any > of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly > prohibited. Should you receive this communication in error, please notify > us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us > at (248) 841-9400. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of William Burley, III > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 12:24 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > Hello all! > > > > Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly > switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and > accessibility. > > > > If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to using > this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? > What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many > others using Windows products? > > > > Thanks for any information! > > > > > > William Burley, III > > (713) 614-3322 > > William.burley3 at gmail.com > > > > Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! > > Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more > details. > > > > Need better internet service for cheaper? > > Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up TODAY! > > > > Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo > uld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 > gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo > uld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40gmail.com From RJaquiss at nfb.org Mon Jun 20 12:41:01 2011 From: RJaquiss at nfb.org (Jaquiss, Robert) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 05:41:01 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <008101cc2ec0$ad9d7dc0$6b01a8c0@server> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><004a01cc2e98$ae2b9420$6b01a8c0@server><001101cc2e9b$bdf79630$39e6c290$@wiennergould.com> <2F37C39C-5507-4822-95C7-37F2FC16CA74@sbcglobal.net> <008101cc2ec0$ad9d7dc0$6b01a8c0@server> Message-ID: <15131457E4DA6B4EBD8776E13F2B3E1002D448D9F2@VA3DIAXVS751.RED001.local> Hello: For those of you using Braille displays, the Mac handles a wide variety of USB and Bluetooth capable displays. Regards, Robert Robert Jaquiss National Federation of the Blind 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Phone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2422 From amatney at hf-law.com Mon Jun 20 13:12:28 2011 From: amatney at hf-law.com (Angela Matney) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 09:12:28 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9E93687A9231064FAD3BBDD80BE19E2B0634C1BB@hfexch1.hirschlerfleischer.com> Hello Michael, I believe there is. You can find out by going to www.lsac.org. Best, Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael McKay Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 8:51 PM To: NFB Blind Law Discussion Group Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: Greetings! all: My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no later then the end of March 2012. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Respectfully! -- *Michael G. McKay * *70 Grove Crescent,* *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* *Canada. P6B 5V4* E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40hf-l aw.com Hirschler Fleischer, A Professional Corporation Confidentiality Note: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by returning it to the sender and delete this copy from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to Treasury Department Circular 230, tax advice contained in this communication and any attachments are not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code, nor may any such tax advice be used to promote, market or recommend to any person any transaction or matter that is the subject of this communication and any attachments. From pattichang at att.net Mon Jun 20 13:39:02 2011 From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 08:39:02 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91> <4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I will have my mmac at convention. Do you want to try it? Patti S. Gregory-Chang NFB, Scholarship Comm. Chair Sent from my iPhone On Jun 19, 2011, at 5:02 PM, "William Burley, III" wrote: > Hi Patti. I think my general accessibility issues is just wanting to find > something that works consistently and I'm having more and more consistent > trouble with Jaws. I'm not generally sure what to ask other than what the > other gentleman asked as far as applications and the useability when working > in an industry that is heavily Windows based. > > Thanks for any info. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access > issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Burley, III" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > >> Hello all! >> >> >> >> Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly >> switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and >> accessibility. >> >> >> >> If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to >> using >> this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? >> What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many >> others using Windows products? >> >> >> >> Thanks for any information! >> >> >> >> >> >> William Burley, III >> >> (713) 614-3322 >> >> William.burley3 at gmail.com >> >> >> >> Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! >> >> Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more >> details. >> >> >> >> Need better internet service for cheaper? >> >> Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up >> TODAY! >> >> >> >> Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 > gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net From rthomas at emplmntattorney.com Mon Jun 20 16:56:09 2011 From: rthomas at emplmntattorney.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 09:56:09 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says Test Discriminates -NPR In-Reply-To: <91AAF0CBEF90432EA524A8EA85C170D2@elizabethrene> References: <91AAF0CBEF90432EA524A8EA85C170D2@elizabethrene> Message-ID: <0C9D547721174DB5920A37E30F2FA5A0@RThomas> >From what little I have read about this case, I do have concerns: 1. Did the applicant ever ask for any form of accommodation, and if so, was it offered, offered in part, or denied. 2. Do we know if the applicant was otherwise qualified for admission, or put another way, had he been sighted would the admission decisions have been any different? "bad cases make bad law"; is this such a case? Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 www.emplmntattorney.com Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Rene Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 8:23 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says Test Discriminates -NPR I too am appalled that aspiring law students are hindered in their efforts to gain law school admission by the structure of the LSAT and by the conditions on which the test is given and interpreted. But something about the NPR article bothers me, and it jumps up to bite me right in the first paragraph. Are blind college grads really getting low LSAT scores because they are invited to draw diagrams for themselves in order to ease their approach to complex questions? Or is that just something an uninitiated reporter gleaned from a complex interview in hopes of reaching the general public? Only well into the article did I read that law schools are still warned that an LSAT test taken with reasonable accommodations has questionable validity, and that top-tier schools decline an option to disregard the LSAT altogether. Granted, one would think that the validity of standardized academic aptitude test scores earned under the tightly controlled conditions on which specific accommodations have been granted over the past 50 years or so should have been proven by now. If not, why not? And if there are pictures or diagrams in the test questions themselves that can't be replicated tactilely for blind students, why is that so? But if the whole thrust of a blind person's argument for higher education or employment is that he or she can find alternate means to solve a sighted person's problems, why should that blind test-taker balk at being invited to draw a picture to help him or her think more clearly? That diagram's only for ordinary people. If one doesn't think visually, noone can make him do that for a test. And what about this concern about top-tier law schools? Didn't Jacobus Tenbroek graduate from UC Berkeley's Boalt Hall? Or was it Stanford? Didn't the NFB's own Peggy Pinder get her JD from Harvard or Yale? What did they do with the LSAT? I took the LSAT in early 1975. I had to wait three years from leaving college for permission to take it in Braille, with an amanuensis to write the answers. The dreaded warning went with my scores. But I got accepted by three of the six law schools I applied to, and waiting listed by the other three. Had my undergraduate grades been better, those other schools might have accepted me, too. After law school, I got to do the work I wanted. And I had to deal with visual evidence, and to make visual evidence understandable to juries and to appellate judges every day. And as every lawyer knows, this had to be done in an adversary setting. Yes, I agree that the LSAT, the GRE, and other such tests have to be made more accessible so as not to discriminate unlawfully. But maybe they're a wake-up call to those who might be confronted for the first time with what they'll encounter on the job. And maybe that second- or third-tier law school, with a fat scholarship for those who excel, might not look so bad. One great thing about there being more and more of us blind lawyers and other professionals is that no one needs to pull blind test-taking and lawyering skills from the air. They've already been learned, and they can be shared. Elizabeth _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 17:18:43 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:18:43 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says TestDiscriminates -NPR References: <91AAF0CBEF90432EA524A8EA85C170D2@elizabethrene> <0C9D547721174DB5920A37E30F2FA5A0@RThomas> Message-ID: How did Dr. Merror become an aturniey? If he can do it, and he's blind, then why are these other folks whining discrimination? Stephanies case is the exception. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says TestDiscriminates -NPR > >From what little I have read about this case, I do have concerns: > > 1. Did the applicant ever ask for any form of accommodation, and if so, > was > it offered, offered in part, or denied. > > 2. Do we know if the applicant was otherwise qualified for admission, or > put > another way, had he been sighted would the admission decisions have been > any > different? > > "bad cases make bad law"; is this such a case? > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > > Newport Beach, California 92660 > > T: (949) 752-0101 > > F: (949) 257-4756 > > M: (949) 466-7238 > > www.emplmntattorney.com > > Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Elizabeth Rene > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 8:23 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says Test Discriminates > -NPR > > I too am appalled that aspiring law students are hindered in their efforts > to gain law school admission by the structure of the LSAT and by the > conditions on which the test is given and interpreted. > > But something about the NPR article bothers me, and it jumps up to bite me > right in the first paragraph. > > Are blind college grads really getting low LSAT scores because they are > invited to draw diagrams for themselves in order to ease their approach to > complex questions? Or is that just something an uninitiated reporter > gleaned from a complex interview in hopes of reaching the general public? > > Only well into the article did I read that law schools are still warned > that > an LSAT test taken with reasonable accommodations has questionable > validity, > and that top-tier schools decline an option to disregard the LSAT > altogether. > > Granted, one would think that the validity of standardized academic > aptitude > test scores earned under the tightly controlled conditions on which > specific > accommodations have been granted over the past 50 years or so should have > been proven by now. If not, why not? And if there are pictures or > diagrams > in the test questions themselves that can't be replicated tactilely for > blind > students, why is that so? > > But if the whole thrust of a blind person's argument for higher education > or > employment is that he or she can find alternate means to solve a sighted > person's problems, why should that blind test-taker balk at being invited > to > draw a picture to help him or her think more clearly? > > That diagram's only for ordinary people. > > If one doesn't think visually, noone can make him do that for a test. > > And what about this concern about top-tier law schools? Didn't Jacobus > Tenbroek graduate from UC Berkeley's Boalt Hall? Or was it Stanford? > Didn't the NFB's own Peggy Pinder get her JD from Harvard or Yale? What > did > they do with the LSAT? > > I took the LSAT in early 1975. I had to wait three years from leaving > college for permission to take it in Braille, with an amanuensis to write > the answers. The dreaded warning went with my scores. But I got accepted > by three of the six law schools I applied to, and waiting listed by the > other three. Had my undergraduate grades been better, those other schools > might have accepted me, too. > > After law school, I got to do the work I wanted. And I had to deal with > visual evidence, and to make visual evidence understandable to juries and > to > appellate judges every day. And as every lawyer knows, this had to be > done > in an adversary setting. > > Yes, I agree that the LSAT, the GRE, and other such tests have to be made > more accessible so as not to discriminate unlawfully. > > But maybe they're a wake-up call to those who might be confronted for the > first time with what they'll encounter on the job. And maybe that second- > or third-tier law school, with a fat scholarship for those who excel, > might > not look so bad. > > One great thing about there being more and more of us blind lawyers and > other professionals is that no one needs to pull blind test-taking and > lawyering skills from the air. They've already been learned, and they can > be shared. > > Elizabeth > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi > rm.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From lists at zufelt.ca Mon Jun 20 17:40:59 2011 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:40:59 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says TestDiscriminates -NPR In-Reply-To: References: <91AAF0CBEF90432EA524A8EA85C170D2@elizabethrene> <0C9D547721174DB5920A37E30F2FA5A0@RThomas> Message-ID: I would like to point out a flaw in your logic. The fact that a particular blind person, or subset of blind persons, have been able to enter law school does not mean that the entrance policies, or tests, are equitable. For the policies and tests to be equitable any person should have the same opportunities be they blind or not. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-06-20, at 1:18 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > How did Dr. Merror become an aturniey? If he can do it, and he's blind, then why are these other folks whining discrimination? Stephanies case is the exception. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 12:56 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says TestDiscriminates -NPR > > >> >From what little I have read about this case, I do have concerns: >> >> 1. Did the applicant ever ask for any form of accommodation, and if so, was >> it offered, offered in part, or denied. >> >> 2. Do we know if the applicant was otherwise qualified for admission, or put >> another way, had he been sighted would the admission decisions have been any >> different? >> >> "bad cases make bad law"; is this such a case? >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> www.emplmntattorney.com >> >> Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Elizabeth Rene >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 8:23 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says Test Discriminates >> -NPR >> >> I too am appalled that aspiring law students are hindered in their efforts >> to gain law school admission by the structure of the LSAT and by the >> conditions on which the test is given and interpreted. >> >> But something about the NPR article bothers me, and it jumps up to bite me >> right in the first paragraph. >> >> Are blind college grads really getting low LSAT scores because they are >> invited to draw diagrams for themselves in order to ease their approach to >> complex questions? Or is that just something an uninitiated reporter >> gleaned from a complex interview in hopes of reaching the general public? >> >> Only well into the article did I read that law schools are still warned that >> an LSAT test taken with reasonable accommodations has questionable validity, >> and that top-tier schools decline an option to disregard the LSAT >> altogether. >> >> Granted, one would think that the validity of standardized academic aptitude >> test scores earned under the tightly controlled conditions on which specific >> accommodations have been granted over the past 50 years or so should have >> been proven by now. If not, why not? And if there are pictures or diagrams >> in the test questions themselves that can't be replicated tactilely for >> blind >> students, why is that so? >> >> But if the whole thrust of a blind person's argument for higher education or >> employment is that he or she can find alternate means to solve a sighted >> person's problems, why should that blind test-taker balk at being invited to >> draw a picture to help him or her think more clearly? >> >> That diagram's only for ordinary people. >> >> If one doesn't think visually, noone can make him do that for a test. >> >> And what about this concern about top-tier law schools? Didn't Jacobus >> Tenbroek graduate from UC Berkeley's Boalt Hall? Or was it Stanford? >> Didn't the NFB's own Peggy Pinder get her JD from Harvard or Yale? What did >> they do with the LSAT? >> >> I took the LSAT in early 1975. I had to wait three years from leaving >> college for permission to take it in Braille, with an amanuensis to write >> the answers. The dreaded warning went with my scores. But I got accepted >> by three of the six law schools I applied to, and waiting listed by the >> other three. Had my undergraduate grades been better, those other schools >> might have accepted me, too. >> >> After law school, I got to do the work I wanted. And I had to deal with >> visual evidence, and to make visual evidence understandable to juries and to >> appellate judges every day. And as every lawyer knows, this had to be done >> in an adversary setting. >> >> Yes, I agree that the LSAT, the GRE, and other such tests have to be made >> more accessible so as not to discriminate unlawfully. >> >> But maybe they're a wake-up call to those who might be confronted for the >> first time with what they'll encounter on the job. And maybe that second- >> or third-tier law school, with a fat scholarship for those who excel, might >> not look so bad. >> >> One great thing about there being more and more of us blind lawyers and >> other professionals is that no one needs to pull blind test-taking and >> lawyering skills from the air. They've already been learned, and they can >> be shared. >> >> Elizabeth >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi >> rm.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From agtolentino at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 18:07:27 2011 From: agtolentino at gmail.com (Aser Tolentino) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:07:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says TestDiscriminates -NPR In-Reply-To: References: <91AAF0CBEF90432EA524A8EA85C170D2@elizabethrene> <0C9D547721174DB5920A37E30F2FA5A0@RThomas> Message-ID: I think the issue RJ had (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that the plaintiff claims no blind person could "pass" this test, when clearly they have. I assume the article refers to the logic games; and while LSAT prep often encourages use of diagrams, that is by no means the only way to work the problem. That's not to say that LSAC is blameless in its position on accommodations... On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 10:40 AM, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > I would like to point out a flaw in your logic. > > The fact that a particular blind person, or subset of blind persons, have > been able to enter law school does not mean that the entrance policies, or > tests, are equitable. > > For the policies and tests to be equitable any person should have the same > opportunities be they blind or not. > > > Everett Zufelt > http://zufelt.ca > > Follow me on Twitter > http://twitter.com/ezufelt > > View my LinkedIn Profile > http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt > > > > On 2011-06-20, at 1:18 PM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > > > How did Dr. Merror become an aturniey? If he can do it, and he's blind, > then why are these other folks whining discrimination? Stephanies case is > the exception. RJ > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." < > rthomas at emplmntattorney.com> > > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 12:56 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says > TestDiscriminates -NPR > > > > > >> >From what little I have read about this case, I do have concerns: > >> > >> 1. Did the applicant ever ask for any form of accommodation, and if so, > was > >> it offered, offered in part, or denied. > >> > >> 2. Do we know if the applicant was otherwise qualified for admission, or > put > >> another way, had he been sighted would the admission decisions have been > any > >> different? > >> > >> "bad cases make bad law"; is this such a case? > >> > >> > >> > >> Respectfully, > >> > >> > >> > >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > >> > >> Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > >> > >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > >> > >> Newport Beach, California 92660 > >> > >> T: (949) 752-0101 > >> > >> F: (949) 257-4756 > >> > >> M: (949) 466-7238 > >> > >> www.emplmntattorney.com > >> > >> Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > >> Behalf Of Elizabeth Rene > >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 8:23 PM > >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> Subject: [blindlaw] Re Blind Would-be Law Student Says Test > Discriminates > >> -NPR > >> > >> I too am appalled that aspiring law students are hindered in their > efforts > >> to gain law school admission by the structure of the LSAT and by the > >> conditions on which the test is given and interpreted. > >> > >> But something about the NPR article bothers me, and it jumps up to bite > me > >> right in the first paragraph. > >> > >> Are blind college grads really getting low LSAT scores because they are > >> invited to draw diagrams for themselves in order to ease their approach > to > >> complex questions? Or is that just something an uninitiated reporter > >> gleaned from a complex interview in hopes of reaching the general > public? > >> > >> Only well into the article did I read that law schools are still warned > that > >> an LSAT test taken with reasonable accommodations has questionable > validity, > >> and that top-tier schools decline an option to disregard the LSAT > >> altogether. > >> > >> Granted, one would think that the validity of standardized academic > aptitude > >> test scores earned under the tightly controlled conditions on which > specific > >> accommodations have been granted over the past 50 years or so should > have > >> been proven by now. If not, why not? And if there are pictures or > diagrams > >> in the test questions themselves that can't be replicated tactilely for > >> blind > >> students, why is that so? > >> > >> But if the whole thrust of a blind person's argument for higher > education or > >> employment is that he or she can find alternate means to solve a sighted > >> person's problems, why should that blind test-taker balk at being > invited to > >> draw a picture to help him or her think more clearly? > >> > >> That diagram's only for ordinary people. > >> > >> If one doesn't think visually, noone can make him do that for a test. > >> > >> And what about this concern about top-tier law schools? Didn't Jacobus > >> Tenbroek graduate from UC Berkeley's Boalt Hall? Or was it Stanford? > >> Didn't the NFB's own Peggy Pinder get her JD from Harvard or Yale? What > did > >> they do with the LSAT? > >> > >> I took the LSAT in early 1975. I had to wait three years from leaving > >> college for permission to take it in Braille, with an amanuensis to > write > >> the answers. The dreaded warning went with my scores. But I got > accepted > >> by three of the six law schools I applied to, and waiting listed by the > >> other three. Had my undergraduate grades been better, those other > schools > >> might have accepted me, too. > >> > >> After law school, I got to do the work I wanted. And I had to deal with > >> visual evidence, and to make visual evidence understandable to juries > and to > >> appellate judges every day. And as every lawyer knows, this had to be > done > >> in an adversary setting. > >> > >> Yes, I agree that the LSAT, the GRE, and other such tests have to be > made > >> more accessible so as not to discriminate unlawfully. > >> > >> But maybe they're a wake-up call to those who might be confronted for > the > >> first time with what they'll encounter on the job. And maybe that > second- > >> or third-tier law school, with a fat scholarship for those who excel, > might > >> not look so bad. > >> > >> One great thing about there being more and more of us blind lawyers and > >> other professionals is that no one needs to pull blind test-taking and > >> lawyering skills from the air. They've already been learned, and they > can > >> be shared. > >> > >> Elizabeth > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi > >> rm.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com > -- Respectfully, Aser Tolentino, Esq. (916) 572-2737 agtolentino at gmail.com From vaughan.roles at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 08:40:15 2011 From: vaughan.roles at gmail.com (Vaughan Roles) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:40:15 +1000 Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts Message-ID: Hi list, Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email letting me know what technology you use. -- Vaughan Roles Ph: 0425211038 From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 14:10:42 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:10:42 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question Message-ID: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn> How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ From sbg at sbgaal.com Tue Jun 21 14:17:20 2011 From: sbg at sbgaal.com (Shannon Geihsler) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:17:20 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with jaws and a Nokia smart phone with talks. I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out there that might be helpful. I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. Sincerely, Shannon Geihsler Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, TX 79401 Phone: 763-3999 Fax: 749-3752 This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Vaughan Roles Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM To: blindlaw Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts Hi list, Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email letting me know what technology you use. -- Vaughan Roles Ph: 0425211038 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 14:27:08 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:27:08 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts References: Message-ID: <8D3A38838E2F4FD79620FF01E8C07210@hometwxakonvzn> I'd be interested how you prepare briefs in word using Jaws Have you argued before the Supreme court of Texas? And What law school did you attend? I'm thinking about going in to law. I'm 32 years old. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Geihsler" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts >I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with jaws >and > a Nokia smart phone with talks. > > I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out there > that > might be helpful. > > I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. > Sincerely, > > Shannon Geihsler > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > Lubbock, TX 79401 > Phone: 763-3999 > Fax: 749-3752 > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or > attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express > permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Vaughan Roles > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM > To: blindlaw > Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > Hi list, > > Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly > appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email > letting me know what technology you use. > > -- > Vaughan Roles > Ph: 0425211038 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From sbg at sbgaal.com Tue Jun 21 14:40:17 2011 From: sbg at sbgaal.com (Shannon Geihsler) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:40:17 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts In-Reply-To: <8D3A38838E2F4FD79620FF01E8C07210@hometwxakonvzn> References: <8D3A38838E2F4FD79620FF01E8C07210@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <3453D98D256247DFA560156E796BCA88@HPLaptop> i did not lose my viasion until 4 years after law school so I can't speak to the challenges in law school for a blind person. I have appeared in front of the 5th circuit twice, the court of appeals in Amarillo. I have not appeared before the Texas supreme court, but the highest court of criminal appeals in Texas is the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals not the Texas Supreme Court. I have not appeared in front of the TCCA either. I do trial work for misdemeanors and felonies. I went to Duke School of Law in Durham North Carolina and now practice in my home city of Lubbock, Texas. Jaws and Word are easy to use. As far as brief writing I do not like Word as much as I liked Wordperfect, but Jaws and wordperfect do not work well together. Wordperfect is much better for doing tables of contents and tables of authorities. Sincerely, Shannon Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, TX 79401 Phone: 763-3999 Fax: 749-3752 This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:27 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts I'd be interested how you prepare briefs in word using Jaws Have you argued before the Supreme court of Texas? And What law school did you attend? I'm thinking about going in to law. I'm 32 years old. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Geihsler" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts >I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with jaws >and > a Nokia smart phone with talks. > > I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out there > that > might be helpful. > > I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. > Sincerely, > > Shannon Geihsler > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > Lubbock, TX 79401 > Phone: 763-3999 > Fax: 749-3752 > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or > attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express > permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Vaughan Roles > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM > To: blindlaw > Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > Hi list, > > Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly > appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email > letting me know what technology you use. > > -- > Vaughan Roles > Ph: 0425211038 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefu r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com From agtolentino at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 16:05:38 2011 From: agtolentino at gmail.com (Aser Tolentino) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:05:38 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question In-Reply-To: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn> References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <2E70BCFA-3CE8-427B-913D-E8BA99A5028F@gmail.com> I'm pretty sure you must be admitted to a state bar, the DC bar or a bar of one of the territories. Once this is done you fill out an application (pay a fee) to practice before any given district. Membership in the SCOTUS bar is largely honorary I believe. Respectfully, Aser Tolentino, Esq. (916) 572-2737 agtolentino at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone On Jun 21, 2011, at 7:10, "RJ Sandefur" wrote: > How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com From dravant at ameritech.net Tue Jun 21 16:12:21 2011 From: dravant at ameritech.net (denise avant) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:12:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts In-Reply-To: <8D3A38838E2F4FD79620FF01E8C07210@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <311212.19185.qm@web81904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello, I am from Illinois. I am currently assigned to the Legal Resources Division of the public defenders office. I work in both the trial and appellate court. I use lots of technology in performing my job. When i work on briefs, and have arguments before the appellate court and illinois supreme court, I print out my argument and other key points in Braille. I use jaws to research and write petitions, responses and briefs. I also use openbook to scan in some transcripts, though i also receive some of the transcripts from the court reporters office here in town. i use my Braillenote to load on cases in case i need to refer to them while sitting at counsel table or if i am on the go. even if i have an evidentiary hearing in the circuit court, i may have my questions or an outline of the direct and/or cross in hardcopy Braille. I also use a slate and stylus to take a few notes while sitting and listening to questions and answers and arguments of counsel. of course, i do have a reader assigned to me to read handwritten police reports and any other documents that cannot be scanned.   you might want to think of investing in the openbook peral reading system. the openbook is a scanning reading system, and with the addition of the pearl camera is extremely portable, as it can be plugged into a laptop (usb) and you can scan documents for reading wherever you are. if you use Braille, you may want to invest in the Braillenote or one of the other portable notetakers. --- On Tue, 6/21/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: From: RJ Sandefur Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 9:27 AM I'd be interested how you prepare briefs in word using Jaws Have you argued before the Supreme court of Texas? And What law school did you attend? I'm thinking about going in to law. I'm 32 years old. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Geihsler" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with jaws and > a Nokia smart phone with talks. > > I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out there that > might be helpful. > > I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. > Sincerely, > > Shannon Geihsler > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > Lubbock, TX 79401 > Phone: 763-3999 > Fax: 749-3752 > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or > attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express > permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Vaughan Roles > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM > To: blindlaw > Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > Hi list, > > Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly > appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email > letting me know what technology you use. > > -- Vaughan Roles > Ph: 0425211038 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net From agtolentino at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 16:30:49 2011 From: agtolentino at gmail.com (Aser Tolentino) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:30:49 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts In-Reply-To: <311212.19185.qm@web81904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8D3A38838E2F4FD79620FF01E8C07210@hometwxakonvzn> <311212.19185.qm@web81904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I haven't been on an arraignment calendar (as a DA intern) since before I graduated from law school. The office I worked for used a central file management system from which I pulled all documents attributed to my cases. Since things not generated by the office were often just scanned PDFs, I had to run these through Kurzweil 1000. I loaded everything on a BrailleNote and also created a master file into which I put notes on all the cases and added dispositions during proceedings. I also copied in cases to cite for oral argument. Mine was an incomplete solution, since it required sighted interpretation of handwritten docket notes from previous appearances and entry of the day's notes on those same docket sheets after the fact for continuity. I also carried a KNFB Reader but never needed it on the occasions when it was in my possession. Denise, how would you rate the Pearl’s accuracy? And does it require OpenBook? On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 9:12 AM, denise avant wrote: > Hello, > I am from Illinois. I am currently assigned to the Legal Resources Division > of the public defenders office. I work in both the trial and appellate > court. > I use lots of technology in performing my job. When i work on briefs, and > have arguments before the appellate court and illinois supreme court, I > print out my argument and other key points in Braille. I use jaws to > research and write petitions, responses and briefs. I also use openbook to > scan in some transcripts, though i also receive some of the transcripts from > the court reporters office here in town. > i use my Braillenote to load on cases in case i need to refer to them while > sitting at counsel table or if i am on the go. > even if i have an evidentiary hearing in the circuit court, i may have my > questions or an outline of the direct and/or cross in hardcopy Braille. > I also use a slate and stylus to take a few notes while sitting and > listening to questions and answers and arguments of counsel. > of course, i do have a reader assigned to me to read handwritten police > reports and any other documents that cannot be scanned. > > you might want to think of investing in the openbook peral reading system. > the openbook is a scanning reading system, and with the addition of the > pearl camera is extremely portable, as it can be plugged into a laptop (usb) > and you can scan documents for reading wherever you are. if you use Braille, > you may want to invest in the Braillenote or one of the other portable > notetakers. > > > --- On Tue, 6/21/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: > > > From: RJ Sandefur > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 9:27 AM > > > I'd be interested how you prepare briefs in word using Jaws Have you argued > before the Supreme court of Texas? And What law school did you attend? I'm > thinking about going in to law. I'm 32 years old. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Geihsler" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:17 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > > > I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with jaws > and > > a Nokia smart phone with talks. > > > > I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out there > that > > might be helpful. > > > > I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. > > Sincerely, > > > > Shannon Geihsler > > > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > > Lubbock, TX 79401 > > Phone: 763-3999 > > Fax: 749-3752 > > > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or > > attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > > review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express > > permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > > Behalf Of Vaughan Roles > > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM > > To: blindlaw > > Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > > > Hi list, > > > > Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly > > appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email > > letting me know what technology you use. > > > > -- Vaughan Roles > > Ph: 0425211038 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com > -- Respectfully, Aser Tolentino, Esq. (916) 572-2737 agtolentino at gmail.com From law at cordovafirm.com Tue Jun 21 16:43:34 2011 From: law at cordovafirm.com (Marina A. Cordova, Esq.) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:43:34 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question In-Reply-To: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn> References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <002b01cc3032$5db2aab0$19180010$@com> Yes, you have to become licensed for the federal bar, which involves paying a fee to your federal district court. Look up your local federal district court on google, and the website should have info on which office to contact and the fees to become licensed by the federal bar in your district. For the district of NM it was $150.00, and fairly quick to get my certificate. Sincerely, Marina A. Cordova Attorney at Law 551 W. Cordova Road, # 234 Santa Fe, NM 87505 Office (505) 467-8395 Fax (505) 467-8746 law at cordovafirm.com Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has.  - Margaret Mead CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email message (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Section 2510-2521, and is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:11 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/law%40cordovafirm. com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Jun 21 16:57:39 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:57:39 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Access Board to Issue Proposed Guidelines for Accessible Public Rights-of-Way Message-ID: FYI, blind lawyers! From: United States Access Board [mailto:access-board at service.govdelivery.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:35 AM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: Access Board to Issue Proposed Guidelines for Accessible Public Rights-of-Way Access Board to Issue Proposed Guidelines for Accessible Public Rights-of-Way The Board plans to release for public comment proposed guidelines for public rights-of-way later this summer. These guidelines will address access to sidewalks, street crossings, and other components of pedestrian networks for people with disabilities, including those with vision impairments. Through this rulemaking, the Board seeks to establish design criteria for pedestrian access routes, curb ramps and blended transitions, pedestrian signals, on-street parking, street furniture, and other elements that take into account constraints unique to public streets and sidewalks, including space limitations and terrain. The guidelines are currently under review by the Office of Budget and Management. If cleared on schedule, the Board anticipates publishing its proposed rule in late July or August. At that time, the Board plans to release the guidelines at a public event and press conference at the Board’s conference space. In addition, the Board will conduct a webinar to review the rule and will hold public hearings in Washington, D.C. and Dallas. The guidelines will be available for comment for several months and will be posted to regulations.gov for review and comment. Further details will be provided as they become available. Background information on this rulemaking is posted on the Board's website. ________________________________ SUBSCRIBER SERVICES: Manage Preferences | Unsubscribe | Help For more information about the content of this email, contact the Access Board. [cid:image001.jpg at 01CC2FF9.A77EA9C0] ________________________________ This email was sent to noel.nightingale at ed.gov using GovDelivery, on behalf of: United States Access Board · 1331 F St NW, Suite 1000 · Washington DC 20004 · (800) 872-2253 (v) · (800) 993-2822 (TTY) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 348 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 17:28:35 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 13:28:35 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn> <002b01cc3032$5db2aab0$19180010$@com> Message-ID: Do they Test you though? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marina A. Cordova, Esq." To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question Yes, you have to become licensed for the federal bar, which involves paying a fee to your federal district court. Look up your local federal district court on google, and the website should have info on which office to contact and the fees to become licensed by the federal bar in your district. For the district of NM it was $150.00, and fairly quick to get my certificate. Sincerely, Marina A. Cordova Attorney at Law 551 W. Cordova Road, # 234 Santa Fe, NM 87505 Office (505) 467-8395 Fax (505) 467-8746 law at cordovafirm.com Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email message (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Section 2510-2521, and is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:11 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/law%40cordovafirm. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From sbg at sbgaal.com Tue Jun 21 17:34:09 2011 From: sbg at sbgaal.com (Shannon Geihsler) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 12:34:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question In-Reply-To: References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn><002b01cc3032$5db2aab0$19180010$@com> Message-ID: <2937111F7AEB401A86BCD1E9E002319E@HPLaptop> Not that I am aware of. Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, TX 79401 Phone: 763-3999 Fax: 749-3752 This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:29 PM To: law at cordovafirm.com; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question Do they Test you though? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marina A. Cordova, Esq." To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question Yes, you have to become licensed for the federal bar, which involves paying a fee to your federal district court. Look up your local federal district court on google, and the website should have info on which office to contact and the fees to become licensed by the federal bar in your district. For the district of NM it was $150.00, and fairly quick to get my certificate. Sincerely, Marina A. Cordova Attorney at Law 551 W. Cordova Road, # 234 Santa Fe, NM 87505 Office (505) 467-8395 Fax (505) 467-8746 law at cordovafirm.com Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email message (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Section 2510-2521, and is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:11 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/law%40cordovafirm. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefu r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jun 21 17:40:02 2011 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:40:02 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question In-Reply-To: <2937111F7AEB401A86BCD1E9E002319E@HPLaptop> References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn><002b01cc3032$5db2aab0$19180010$@com> <2937111F7AEB401A86BCD1E9E002319E@HPLaptop> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EDDD@EVS02.central.pima.gov> It's been several years since I was admitted, but all that was done here (Arizona) was an application to federal district court (with application fee) and swearing-in ceremony at the federal courthouse, and a certificate of admission. An application fee was also submitted by my then-employer for my admission to the 9th circuit - no swearing-in ceremony with that, just a certificate mailed to me. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Geihsler Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:34 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question Not that I am aware of. Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, TX 79401 Phone: 763-3999 Fax: 749-3752 This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:29 PM To: law at cordovafirm.com; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question Do they Test you though? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marina A. Cordova, Esq." To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question Yes, you have to become licensed for the federal bar, which involves paying a fee to your federal district court. Look up your local federal district court on google, and the website should have info on which office to contact and the fees to become licensed by the federal bar in your district. For the district of NM it was $150.00, and fairly quick to get my certificate. Sincerely, Marina A. Cordova Attorney at Law 551 W. Cordova Road, # 234 Santa Fe, NM 87505 Office (505) 467-8395 Fax (505) 467-8746 law at cordovafirm.com Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email message (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Section 2510-2521, and is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:11 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/law%40cordovaf irm. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksan defu r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.c om _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Tue Jun 21 17:42:41 2011 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:42:41 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn><002b01cc3032$5db2aab0$19180010$@com> Message-ID: <4A3847EC012747A4B494F62C98661B01@labarre> No, however, you need to be in good standing with the highest court of at least one state. Usually, you need to be in good standing in the state where you are attempting to become a member of that federal district. Otherwise, you need to apply for pro hac vice admission in other federal districts. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: ; "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question > Do they Test you though? RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marina A. Cordova, Esq." > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:43 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question > > > Yes, you have to become licensed for the federal bar, which involves > paying > a fee to your federal district court. Look up your local federal district > court on google, and the website should have info on which office to > contact > and the fees to become licensed by the federal bar in your district. For > the district of NM it was $150.00, and fairly quick to get my certificate. > > Sincerely, > Marina A. Cordova > Attorney at Law > 551 W. Cordova Road, # 234 > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > Office (505) 467-8395 > Fax (505) 467-8746 > law at cordovafirm.com > > Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can > change > the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email message (including attachments) is > covered > by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Section 2510-2521, > and > is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may > contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, > use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is > prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the > sender > by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are > the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through > this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:11 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question > > How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or > do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, > what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/law%40cordovafirm. > com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From rthomas at emplmntattorney.com Tue Jun 21 17:45:53 2011 From: rthomas at emplmntattorney.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:45:53 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question In-Reply-To: References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn><002b01cc3032$5db2aab0$19180010$@com> Message-ID: <959163596F304F3DA9E0628568F1BA22@RThomas> In the federal courts in which I am admitted, there was no test. Usually, once you are admitted to the State Bar you automatically qualify for admission into each federal court. Another attorney can move your admission before a judge. In some courts you send in a form together with a certificate of good standing from your state bar. You have to pay a fee of course. You get admitted to practice Court by Court. For example, if you want to be admitted to all federal district courts in California, that requires four separate admissions. Admission to the ninth Circuit is a separate admission. Don't confuse admission to practice in a federal court with the Federal Bar. The Federal Bar is like the A.B.A; you don't have to belong to these organizations to be admitted to federal courts. p.s. If you want to go to boring luncheons, listen to a lot of self congratulatory speeches, and listen to a lot of pompous old men make fools of themselves, by all means join the Federal Bar in your local community. Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 www.emplmntattorney.com Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:29 AM To: law at cordovafirm.com; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question Do they Test you though? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marina A. Cordova, Esq." To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question Yes, you have to become licensed for the federal bar, which involves paying a fee to your federal district court. Look up your local federal district court on google, and the website should have info on which office to contact and the fees to become licensed by the federal bar in your district. For the district of NM it was $150.00, and fairly quick to get my certificate. Sincerely, Marina A. Cordova Attorney at Law 551 W. Cordova Road, # 234 Santa Fe, NM 87505 Office (505) 467-8395 Fax (505) 467-8746 law at cordovafirm.com Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email message (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Section 2510-2521, and is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:11 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/law%40cordovafirm. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefu r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 18:01:42 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:01:42 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn><002b01cc3032$5db2aab0$19180010$@com> <4A3847EC012747A4B494F62C98661B01@labarre> Message-ID: <3BD0702B5ABA418AB3A7DA9305933759@hometwxakonvzn> What is pro hac vice admissio? RJn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" ; Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question No, however, you need to be in good standing with the highest court of at least one state. Usually, you need to be in good standing in the state where you are attempting to become a member of that federal district. Otherwise, you need to apply for pro hac vice admission in other federal districts. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: ; "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question > Do they Test you though? RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marina A. Cordova, Esq." > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:43 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question > > > Yes, you have to become licensed for the federal bar, which involves > paying > a fee to your federal district court. Look up your local federal district > court on google, and the website should have info on which office to > contact > and the fees to become licensed by the federal bar in your district. For > the district of NM it was $150.00, and fairly quick to get my certificate. > > Sincerely, > Marina A. Cordova > Attorney at Law > 551 W. Cordova Road, # 234 > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > Office (505) 467-8395 > Fax (505) 467-8746 > law at cordovafirm.com > > Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can > change > the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email message (including attachments) is > covered > by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Section 2510-2521, > and > is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may > contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, > use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is > prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the > sender > by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are > the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through > this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:11 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question > > How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or > do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, > what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/law%40cordovafirm. > com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Tue Jun 21 18:12:57 2011 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:12:57 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts In-Reply-To: <8D3A38838E2F4FD79620FF01E8C07210@hometwxakonvzn> References: <8D3A38838E2F4FD79620FF01E8C07210@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0F84F5@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> RJ, I am guessing you are beginning your adventure to become a lawyer, and are asking for information related to practicing with blindness. If I may, let me address your questions from the prospective of a blind law student, and a newly admitted student attorney (Texas has an associate membership in its bar for law students who are authorized to practice as the attorney of record under the direct supervision of a fully licensed attorney.) First, do you have an undergrad degree from a four year university? This may be a requirement in your state if you are not in Texas, and I do know it is a requirement for Texas to enter law school. If memory serves me correctly, I believe it is a requirement for all ABA accredited law schools. Secondly, you will need to register with the Law School Admissions Counsel (www.lsac.org). This will start the process of taking the Law School Admissions Test (LSAT), and will also begin your process for applying to law school. The service will collect all applications to your schools, collect the letters of reference, and academic transcripts. They will also begin to document your requests for accommodations in testing which will be very important when you apply for same in law school, when you take the Multistate Professional ethics test, called the MPRE, and when in time you sit for the bar. Okay, moving on, now your in law school, learning all the wonderful theory and taking your finals and scoring well. If your school has a clinical practice program, as St. Mary's does, you can be selected and admitted as a student attorney. Not all law students either are selected or apply for this program, but I have found it to be a wonderful way to gain much needed experience before you are let loose upon the world. So, what do I use... I would say that Braille will be your friend if you have the skills. Why? Because I found out the hard way. You will not have time with Law professors breathing down your neck to scroll through spoken text looking for holdings of cases or if it mattered in the opinion one end of a telephone wire was higher than another in a case of ejectment. The lectures are rapid fire, and you must be as good as the sighted class mates. If speech is your thing, then go for it, but I never thought I'd use Braille in my life before law school. Now I am doing all I can to build up my skills. Next Westlaw and Lexis nexus are both accessible. Most of your research will be done on these two services. When you argue your moot court case (something you will do your first year), I found it to be a help to summarize your full brief (written using jaws), in braille to bring with you for arguments. I also use open book, but only to scan in notes and handouts given by professors who forget to give an electronic copy. Most professors are very willing to give handouts in an accessible form, but you have to build up a relationship with them. I have found that if you show your committed to the practice of law by reading your cases, considering the cases, always being ready for class, they will assist you. Third for class Notes, taking them on a laptop using jaws, or if you have a Braille display, I found that to be a help because you can turn off speech and still keep track. It was much quieter when I started using Braille as the primary form of access then when I was using speech in an ear bud. Much easier to follow as I wasn't distracted by the speech covering up what the professor was saying. Fourth, the reading of casebooks is the only hiccup. Most of the publishers such as "Westlaw" publish their books in PDF format. While JAWS can read this form, you will find that perhaps Microsoft Word is a better format to go with. Braille Textbooks are not readily available. I have a person at the law school who converts each chapter into a separate Microsoft Word file and I read my assignments in this way. Again, relationships and self-advocacy is key. Ask first, then argue why it is required. Okay, so now you're a Student Attorney, ready to get out there and zealously advocate against the injustices your clients have suffered at the hands of social norms that care not for their well-being. Again I use braille in court. As an example, I went to court last week to prove up a divorce. (This is when you state to the court the reasons why the divorce should be granted, and prey (you will do loads of preying both in and out of the courtroom), the divorce is granted. I printed my questions out in Braille, and also used index cards with braille labels so I could give what copy of what document to which party. Copies of the decree, the affidavit of indigency, and so on. Tell us more about yourself, and perhaps I can help through my own experience. It is limited, but I have had wonderful support and guidance from the legal community, and want to pay it forward. Best of luck to you in beginning your law school process. Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX  78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760  fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:27 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts I'd be interested how you prepare briefs in word using Jaws Have you argued before the Supreme court of Texas? And What law school did you attend? I'm thinking about going in to law. I'm 32 years old. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Geihsler" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts >I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with >jaws and a Nokia smart phone with talks. > > I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out > there that might be helpful. > > I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. > Sincerely, > > Shannon Geihsler > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > Lubbock, TX 79401 > Phone: 763-3999 > Fax: 749-3752 > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged > and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended > recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or > forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you > are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Vaughan Roles > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM > To: blindlaw > Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > Hi list, > > Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly > appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email > letting me know what technology you use. > > -- > Vaughan Roles > Ph: 0425211038 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks > andefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Jun 21 18:18:24 2011 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:18:24 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts In-Reply-To: <311212.19185.qm@web81904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8D3A38838E2F4FD79620FF01E8C07210@hometwxakonvzn> <311212.19185.qm@web81904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EDDF@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Denise - how do you handle the time issue on oral arguments since (I assume) you cannot use the clock on the podium? I have not had an oral argument since losing my vision (our appellate court here in Southern Arizona doesn't grant many in criminal / juvenile delinquencies), so that has been in the back of my mind as a potential problem. So far, we have come up with a co-worker going with me to somehow signal me as to the times left. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of denise avant Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:12 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts Hello, I am from Illinois. I am currently assigned to the Legal Resources Division of the public defenders office. I work in both the trial and appellate court. I use lots of technology in performing my job. When i work on briefs, and have arguments before the appellate court and illinois supreme court, I print out my argument and other key points in Braille. I use jaws to research and write petitions, responses and briefs. I also use openbook to scan in some transcripts, though i also receive some of the transcripts from the court reporters office here in town. i use my Braillenote to load on cases in case i need to refer to them while sitting at counsel table or if i am on the go. even if i have an evidentiary hearing in the circuit court, i may have my questions or an outline of the direct and/or cross in hardcopy Braille. I also use a slate and stylus to take a few notes while sitting and listening to questions and answers and arguments of counsel. of course, i do have a reader assigned to me to read handwritten police reports and any other documents that cannot be scanned.   you might want to think of investing in the openbook peral reading system. the openbook is a scanning reading system, and with the addition of the pearl camera is extremely portable, as it can be plugged into a laptop (usb) and you can scan documents for reading wherever you are. if you use Braille, you may want to invest in the Braillenote or one of the other portable notetakers. --- On Tue, 6/21/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: From: RJ Sandefur Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 9:27 AM I'd be interested how you prepare briefs in word using Jaws Have you argued before the Supreme court of Texas? And What law school did you attend? I'm thinking about going in to law. I'm 32 years old. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Geihsler" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with jaws and > a Nokia smart phone with talks. > > I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out there that > might be helpful. > > I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. > Sincerely, > > Shannon Geihsler > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > Lubbock, TX 79401 > Phone: 763-3999 > Fax: 749-3752 > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or > attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express > permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Vaughan Roles > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM > To: blindlaw > Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > Hi list, > > Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly > appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email > letting me know what technology you use. > > -- Vaughan Roles > Ph: 0425211038 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From dravant at ameritech.net Tue Jun 21 18:48:38 2011 From: dravant at ameritech.net (denise avant) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EDDF@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <824353.86980.qm@web81901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> hello, let the clerk of the court know what you need. either one of two things can happen. one of the justices will say, counsel you have a minute left [don't let this bother you] or the court as the illinois supreme court did ring a small bell at the one minute mark. usually the state courts don't get too upset if you run over a few seconds. and this is true for all attorneys. i have never argued in the federal courts, but again, i assume that the judges there will come up with an audible signal to let you know when you're getting to the end of your time. --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Susan Kelly wrote: From: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 1:18 PM Denise - how do you handle the time issue on oral arguments since (I assume) you cannot use the clock on the podium?  I have not had an oral argument since losing my vision (our appellate court here in Southern Arizona doesn't grant many in criminal / juvenile delinquencies), so that has been in the back of my mind as a potential problem.  So far, we have come up with a co-worker going with me to somehow signal me as to the times left. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of denise avant Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:12 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts Hello, I am from Illinois. I am currently assigned to the Legal Resources Division of the public defenders office. I work in both the trial and appellate court. I use lots of technology in performing my job. When i work on briefs, and have arguments before the appellate court and illinois supreme court, I print out my argument and other key points in Braille. I use jaws to research and write petitions, responses and briefs. I also use openbook to scan in some transcripts, though i also receive some of the transcripts from the court reporters office here in town. i use my Braillenote to load on cases in case i need to refer to them while sitting at counsel table or if i am on the go. even if i have an evidentiary hearing in the circuit court, i may have my questions or an outline of the direct and/or cross in hardcopy Braille. I also use a slate and stylus to take a few notes while sitting and listening to questions and answers and arguments of counsel. of course, i do have a reader assigned to me to read handwritten police reports and any other documents that cannot be scanned.   you might want to think of investing in the openbook peral reading system. the openbook is a scanning reading system, and with the addition of the pearl camera is extremely portable, as it can be plugged into a laptop (usb) and you can scan documents for reading wherever you are. if you use Braille, you may want to invest in the Braillenote or one of the other portable notetakers. --- On Tue, 6/21/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: From: RJ Sandefur Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 9:27 AM I'd be interested how you prepare briefs in word using Jaws Have you argued before the Supreme court of Texas? And What law school did you attend? I'm thinking about going in to law. I'm 32 years old. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Geihsler" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with jaws and > a Nokia smart phone with talks. > > I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out there that > might be helpful. > > I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. > Sincerely, > > Shannon Geihsler > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > Lubbock, TX 79401 > Phone: 763-3999 > Fax: 749-3752 > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or > attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express > permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Vaughan Roles > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM > To: blindlaw > Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > Hi list, > > Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly > appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email > letting me know what technology you use. > > -- Vaughan Roles > Ph: 0425211038 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net From david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us Tue Jun 21 19:05:55 2011 From: david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us (Hyde, David W. (ESC)) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:05:55 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EDDF@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <8D3A38838E2F4FD79620FF01E8C07210@hometwxakonvzn> <311212.19185.qm@web81904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EDDF@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <8FE3DA4A52652B4D8EC80883B3DC1233864A636667@tiger> Now, I'm not a lawyer, but when speaking, I use a braille watch. If I'm wearing a jacket, I can simply reach up open and close it quietly, and go on. I'm sure there are much more complex ways of doing it, but this works for me. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 1:18 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts Denise - how do you handle the time issue on oral arguments since (I assume) you cannot use the clock on the podium? I have not had an oral argument since losing my vision (our appellate court here in Southern Arizona doesn't grant many in criminal / juvenile delinquencies), so that has been in the back of my mind as a potential problem. So far, we have come up with a co-worker going with me to somehow signal me as to the times left. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of denise avant Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:12 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts Hello, I am from Illinois. I am currently assigned to the Legal Resources Division of the public defenders office. I work in both the trial and appellate court. I use lots of technology in performing my job. When i work on briefs, and have arguments before the appellate court and illinois supreme court, I print out my argument and other key points in Braille. I use jaws to research and write petitions, responses and briefs. I also use openbook to scan in some transcripts, though i also receive some of the transcripts from the court reporters office here in town. i use my Braillenote to load on cases in case i need to refer to them while sitting at counsel table or if i am on the go. even if i have an evidentiary hearing in the circuit court, i may have my questions or an outline of the direct and/or cross in hardcopy Braille. I also use a slate and stylus to take a few notes while sitting and listening to questions and answers and arguments of counsel. of course, i do have a reader assigned to me to read handwritten police reports and any other documents that cannot be scanned.   you might want to think of investing in the openbook peral reading system. the openbook is a scanning reading system, and with the addition of the pearl camera is extremely portable, as it can be plugged into a laptop (usb) and you can scan documents for reading wherever you are. if you use Braille, you may want to invest in the Braillenote or one of the other portable notetakers. --- On Tue, 6/21/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: From: RJ Sandefur Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 9:27 AM I'd be interested how you prepare briefs in word using Jaws Have you argued before the Supreme court of Texas? And What law school did you attend? I'm thinking about going in to law. I'm 32 years old. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Geihsler" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with > jaws and a Nokia smart phone with talks. > > I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out > there that might be helpful. > > I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. > Sincerely, > > Shannon Geihsler > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > Lubbock, TX 79401 > Phone: 763-3999 > Fax: 749-3752 > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged > and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended > recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or > forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you > are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Vaughan Roles > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM > To: blindlaw > Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > Hi list, > > Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly > appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email > letting me know what technology you use. > > -- Vaughan Roles > Ph: 0425211038 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks > andefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/david.hyde%40wcbvi.k12.wi.us From dravant at ameritech.net Tue Jun 21 20:03:32 2011 From: dravant at ameritech.net (denise avant) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 13:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13575.77148.qm@web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello all, Beginning with Openbook 9, Freedom Scientific added the Pearl camera which made a more portable scanning and reading solution. i cannot say that the recognition is any better than openbook 8. but i can say that depending on your processor, the pearl is very fast at starting to read. when you scan a document, it seems to start reading within a second or two of the scan. for those of you who will be coming to cnvention, i would urge you to bring some of your most commonly scanned material, and see if fs will let you try out the pearl using your documents. but in any case, go over and see it to see if its something you might want to buy or upgrade to.     --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Aser Tolentino wrote: From: Aser Tolentino Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 11:30 AM I haven't been on an arraignment calendar (as a DA intern) since before I graduated from law school. The office I worked for used a central file management system from which I pulled all documents attributed to my cases. Since things not generated by the office were often just scanned PDFs, I had to run these through Kurzweil 1000. I loaded everything on a BrailleNote and also created a master file into which I put notes on all the cases and added dispositions during proceedings. I also copied in cases to cite for oral argument. Mine was an incomplete solution, since it required sighted interpretation of handwritten docket notes from previous appearances and entry of the day's notes on those same docket sheets after the fact for continuity. I also carried a KNFB Reader but never needed it on the occasions when it was in my possession. Denise, how would you rate the Pearl’s accuracy? And does it require OpenBook? On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 9:12 AM, denise avant wrote: > Hello, > I am from Illinois. I am currently assigned to the Legal Resources Division > of the public defenders office. I work in both the trial and appellate > court. > I use lots of technology in performing my job. When i work on briefs, and > have arguments before the appellate court and illinois supreme court, I > print out my argument and other key points in Braille. I use jaws to > research and write petitions, responses and briefs. I also use openbook to > scan in some transcripts, though i also receive some of the transcripts from > the court reporters office here in town. > i use my Braillenote to load on cases in case i need to refer to them while > sitting at counsel table or if i am on the go. > even if i have an evidentiary hearing in the circuit court, i may have my > questions or an outline of the direct and/or cross in hardcopy Braille. > I also use a slate and stylus to take a few notes while sitting and > listening to questions and answers and arguments of counsel. > of course, i do have a reader assigned to me to read handwritten police > reports and any other documents that cannot be scanned. > > you might want to think of investing in the openbook peral reading system. > the openbook is a scanning reading system, and with the addition of the > pearl camera is extremely portable, as it can be plugged into a laptop (usb) > and you can scan documents for reading wherever you are. if you use Braille, > you may want to invest in the Braillenote or one of the other portable > notetakers. > > > --- On Tue, 6/21/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: > > > From: RJ Sandefur > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 9:27 AM > > > I'd be interested how you prepare briefs in word using Jaws Have you argued > before the Supreme court of Texas? And What law school did you attend? I'm > thinking about going in to law. I'm 32 years old. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannon Geihsler" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:17 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > > > I do criminal defense work in the courtroom and I use a laptop with jaws > and > > a Nokia smart phone with talks. > > > > I would be interested in knowing if there is other technology out there > that > > might be helpful. > > > > I also have the KNFB reader, but I am not happy with it'. > > Sincerely, > > > > Shannon Geihsler > > > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > > Lubbock, TX 79401 > > Phone: 763-3999 > > Fax: 749-3752 > > > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or > > attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > > review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express > > permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > > Behalf Of Vaughan Roles > > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:40 AM > > To: blindlaw > > Subject: [blindlaw] attention criminal lawyers who work in courts > > > > Hi list, > > > > Is there any totally blind criminal lawyers on list who regularly > > appear in high volume court lists? If so, could you drop me an email > > letting me know what technology you use. > > > > -- Vaughan Roles > > Ph: 0425211038 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com > -- Respectfully, Aser Tolentino, Esq. (916) 572-2737 agtolentino at gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Tue Jun 21 20:18:22 2011 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:18:22 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: <2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn> References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn> <2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> Hi all, I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some clarity of the argument is in order. The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school. This is not true as I and many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT. Was it easy, nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a separate issue from the exam itself. I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should not be able to bring their concerns before the court. I do have some questions. First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that they were "top tier". Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? Was it close, within a point or two? How did the plaintiff do on the questions that are not the puzzles? Much of the exam is perfectly understandable by a blind person. Perhaps there is another reason why they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed to enquiry? Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my school and others. I was accepted into my school of choice on a provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full admittance. Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, and even sat in on a class or two and met with students, professors, and other staff so that when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was remembered. However, given all this it was very hard for me and countless others to get into law school. The selection committees look at the whole person so in the words of one professor, "There has to be something that says to us, you belong in the profession of law." What did the rest of this person's package look like? So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to enter. I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is for the court to rule upon. I am saying that placing all of the blame at the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. With respect, Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX  78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760  fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the > LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. > Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having > accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate material on it. > Beth > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" > > wrote: > >> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> Hi, Michael. >>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>> into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>> Good luck >>> Beth Taurasi >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Greetings! all: >>>> >>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>> does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>> >>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance. >>>> >>>> Respectfully! >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>> * >>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >> oose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks > andefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 20:25:35 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 16:25:35 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn><2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn> <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: What about Stephanie's Case? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dittman, Robert" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: Hi all, I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some clarity of the argument is in order. The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school. This is not true as I and many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT. Was it easy, nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a separate issue from the exam itself. I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should not be able to bring their concerns before the court. I do have some questions. First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that they were "top tier". Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? Was it close, within a point or two? How did the plaintiff do on the questions that are not the puzzles? Much of the exam is perfectly understandable by a blind person. Perhaps there is another reason why they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed to enquiry? Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my school and others. I was accepted into my school of choice on a provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full admittance. Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, and even sat in on a class or two and met with students, professors, and other staff so that when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was remembered. However, given all this it was very hard for me and countless others to get into law school. The selection committees look at the whole person so in the words of one professor, "There has to be something that says to us, you belong in the profession of law." What did the rest of this person's package look like? So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to enter. I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is for the court to rule upon. I am saying that placing all of the blame at the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. With respect, Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the > LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. > Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having > accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate > material on it. > Beth > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" > > wrote: > >> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> Hi, Michael. >>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>> into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>> Good luck >>> Beth Taurasi >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Greetings! all: >>>> >>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>> does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>> >>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance. >>>> >>>> Respectfully! >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>> * >>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >> oose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks > andefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Tue Jun 21 20:38:33 2011 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:38:33 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn><2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn> <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA79E@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> What are the facts of that case? Keep in mind each person's admission into law school is a very individualized process so I have been told. So just because one blind person did enter law school, and one did not does not mean that the contributing factors are the same. How was the person's academic performance in their undergraduate education? What did they put in their personal statement and declaration to study law? How many law schools did they apply to, and were they ever offered a provisional appointment to any of these schools? Did they ever make it known to any of these schools they wish to attend? Just more questions. In any case, the exam is but one measuring factor. Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX  78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760  fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:26 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: What about Stephanie's Case? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dittman, Robert" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: Hi all, I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some clarity of the argument is in order. The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school. This is not true as I and many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT. Was it easy, nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a separate issue from the exam itself. I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should not be able to bring their concerns before the court. I do have some questions. First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that they were "top tier". Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? Was it close, within a point or two? How did the plaintiff do on the questions that are not the puzzles? Much of the exam is perfectly understandable by a blind person. Perhaps there is another reason why they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed to enquiry? Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my school and others. I was accepted into my school of choice on a provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full admittance. Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, and even sat in on a class or two and met with students, professors, and other staff so that when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was remembered. However, given all this it was very hard for me and countless others to get into law school. The selection committees look at the whole person so in the words of one professor, "There has to be something that says to us, you belong in the profession of law." What did the rest of this person's package look like? So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to enter. I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is for the court to rule upon. I am saying that placing all of the blame at the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. With respect, Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the > LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. > Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having > accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate > material on it. > Beth > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" > > wrote: > >> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> Hi, Michael. >>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>> into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>> Good luck >>> Beth Taurasi >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Greetings! all: >>>> >>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>> does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>> >>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance. >>>> >>>> Respectfully! >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>> * >>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >> oose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks > andefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu From dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 21 23:50:09 2011 From: dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net (dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:50:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn><2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn><687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: What are the general facts of Stephanie's case? ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > What about Stephanie's Case? RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dittman, Robert" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > > Hi all, > > I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some > clarity of the argument is in order. > > The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the > LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school. This is not true as I and > many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT. Was it easy, > nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a > separate issue from the exam itself. > > I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the > accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. > > But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should not > be able to bring their concerns before the court. > > I do have some questions. > > First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that they > were "top tier". Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? > Was it close, within a point or two? How did the plaintiff do on the > questions that are not the puzzles? Much of the exam is perfectly > understandable by a blind person. Perhaps there is another reason why > they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed > to enquiry? > > Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my school > and others. I was accepted into my school of choice on a provisional > program and upon completion of that program gained full admittance. Did > the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under such a program? > Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they had the desire to > apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, and even sat in on a > class or two and met with students, professors, and other staff so that > when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was remembered. However, > given all this it was very hard for me and countless others to get into > law school. The selection committees look at the whole person so in the > words of one professor, "There has to be something that says to us, you > belong in the profession of law." What did the rest of this person's > package look like? > > > So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely > prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to > enter. I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is > for the court to rule upon. I am saying that placing all of the blame at > the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. > > With respect, > > > Robert D. Dittman > Student Attorney > St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) > 2507 N.W. 36th Street > San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 > Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 > Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail > and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these > United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider > becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame > discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, > is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take > them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT > will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the >> LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. >> Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having >> accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate >> material on it. >> Beth >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" >> >> wrote: >> >>> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>>> Hi, Michael. >>>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>>> into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>>> Good luck >>>> Beth Taurasi >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Greetings! all: >>>>> >>>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>>> does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>>> >>>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully! >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>>> * >>>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >>> oose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks >> andefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 00:34:01 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:34:01 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn><2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn><687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: Please read the opinion attached ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > What are the general facts of Stephanie's case? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:25 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> What about Stephanie's Case? RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dittman, Robert" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some >> clarity of the argument is in order. >> >> The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the >> LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school. This is not true as I and >> many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT. Was it easy, >> nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a >> separate issue from the exam itself. >> >> I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the >> accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. >> >> But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should >> not be able to bring their concerns before the court. >> >> I do have some questions. >> >> First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that they >> were "top tier". Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? >> Was it close, within a point or two? How did the plaintiff do on the >> questions that are not the puzzles? Much of the exam is perfectly >> understandable by a blind person. Perhaps there is another reason why >> they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed >> to enquiry? >> >> Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my >> school and others. I was accepted into my school of choice on a >> provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full >> admittance. Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under >> such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they >> had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, >> and even sat in on a class or two and met with students, professors, and >> other staff so that when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was >> remembered. However, given all this it was very hard for me and >> countless others to get into law school. The selection committees look at >> the whole person so in the words of one professor, "There has to be >> something that says to us, you belong in the profession of law." What >> did the rest of this person's package look like? >> >> >> So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely >> prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to >> enter. I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is >> for the court to rule upon. I am saying that placing all of the blame at >> the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. >> >> With respect, >> >> >> Robert D. Dittman >> Student Attorney >> St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) >> 2507 N.W. 36th Street >> San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 >> Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 >> Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any >> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may >> contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized >> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not >> the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail >> and destroy all copies of the original message. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these >> United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider >> becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame >> discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, >> is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take >> them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT >> will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the >>> LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. >>> Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having >>> accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate >>> material on it. >>> Beth >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi, Michael. >>>>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>>>> into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>>>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>>>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>>>> Good luck >>>>> Beth Taurasi >>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Greetings! all: >>>>>> >>>>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>>>> does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>>> >>>>>> Respectfully! >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>>>> * >>>>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>>>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >>>> oose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks >>> andefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 10-15286[1].pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 105272 bytes Desc: not available URL: From b75205 at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 05:02:03 2011 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 00:02:03 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] lack of accessible student loan info In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3ED21@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <913C3CC1-3E9C-4350-9D85-F64B95839514@sbcglobal.net> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3ED1D@EVS02.central.pima.gov> <7B6877AB-C131-4A41-8745-AD7DC92BC339@sbcglobal.net> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3ED21@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: The move to the cloud computing has left accessibility in the lurch. Everything is now custom made and of course if content can be proven to meet any specification of Section 508, why should they do anything more? On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Susan Kelly wrote: > Mine were consolidated with Sallie Mae - but I think the same parent > company has pretty much all of the stuff for the federal student loan > programs. Evil, to say the least. Wishing you luck in getting them to > behave like actual humans! > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk > Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 8:31 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] lack of accessible student loan info > > Gee. One wonders if you called the same (Stafford loans, I believe). > Would anyone know how I'd go about wagging the dog on this one? > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 > pima.gov > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Jun 22 06:01:27 2011 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 23:01:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question In-Reply-To: <2E70BCFA-3CE8-427B-913D-E8BA99A5028F@gmail.com> References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn> <2E70BCFA-3CE8-427B-913D-E8BA99A5028F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <37389EBDE25B431B82187D5EFC08CE07@Blind> The admission to practice in federal district court is determined by local rules of admittance for the district court. As a preliminary you do have to be a member of a state or DC. Some district courts require admission into the state in which the district court is located, i.e., California. Then there are districts like Northern Florida which in addition to admission in any state or DC only requires passing an online exam which any law grad could sleep walk through. Immigration court and other federal administrative/quasi judicial bodies generally do not require admission into the state in which the court you wish to appear in is located, i.e., any state or DC gets you into immigration court. Note however Bankruptcy court differs but the tax court is similar to immigration court. Basically you have to inquire court by court to ensure you get the straight dope. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aser Tolentino Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:06 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question I'm pretty sure you must be admitted to a state bar, the DC bar or a bar of one of the territories. Once this is done you fill out an application (pay a fee) to practice before any given district. Membership in the SCOTUS bar is largely honorary I believe. Respectfully, Aser Tolentino, Esq. (916) 572-2737 agtolentino at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone On Jun 21, 2011, at 7:10, "RJ Sandefur" wrote: > How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Jun 22 06:05:01 2011 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 23:05:01 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question In-Reply-To: <3BD0702B5ABA418AB3A7DA9305933759@hometwxakonvzn> References: <00BB8482756E48D69331CE86B56A5CAD@hometwxakonvzn><002b01cc3032$5db2aab0$19180010$@com><4A3847EC012747A4B494F62C98661B01@labarre> <3BD0702B5ABA418AB3A7DA9305933759@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Pro Hac Vice is admission on motion to the court. But it has it's limitations such as you have to have as lead counsel a locally admitted attorney, further, as pro hac vice counsel you cannot be a resident of the state in which you seek admission on motion and there is usually a limit of appearances per a set period of time. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 11:02 AM To: Scott C. LaBarre; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question What is pro hac vice admissio? RJn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" ; Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question No, however, you need to be in good standing with the highest court of at least one state. Usually, you need to be in good standing in the state where you are attempting to become a member of that federal district. Otherwise, you need to apply for pro hac vice admission in other federal districts. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: ; "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question > Do they Test you though? RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marina A. Cordova, Esq." > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:43 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law Question > > > Yes, you have to become licensed for the federal bar, which involves > paying > a fee to your federal district court. Look up your local federal district > court on google, and the website should have info on which office to > contact > and the fees to become licensed by the federal bar in your district. For > the district of NM it was $150.00, and fairly quick to get my certificate. > > Sincerely, > Marina A. Cordova > Attorney at Law > 551 W. Cordova Road, # 234 > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > Office (505) 467-8395 > Fax (505) 467-8746 > law at cordovafirm.com > > Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can > change > the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email message (including attachments) is > covered > by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Section 2510-2521, > and > is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may > contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, > use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is > prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the > sender > by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are > the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through > this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:11 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law Question > > How would I go about becoming a federal Lawyer? Is their a federal bar? Or > do you joine the bar of the United States supreme court? In other words, > what are the qualifications needed to practice federal law? RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/law%40cordovafirm. > com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefu r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarre law.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefu r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 19:35:29 2011 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 20:35:29 +0100 Subject: [blindlaw] How to Get US Law Books, Please Help Message-ID: Dear all, I wonder if anyone could give me some advice on how to get law books from the US in electronic format? I really need to get a couple of leading textbooks, in constitutional, administrative and insurance law. They're big books so I don't want to scan them. Many thanks, Ger From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 19:35:29 2011 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 20:35:29 +0100 Subject: [blindlaw] How to Get US Law Books, Please Help Message-ID: Dear all, I wonder if anyone could give me some advice on how to get law books from the US in electronic format? I really need to get a couple of leading textbooks, in constitutional, administrative and insurance law. They're big books so I don't want to scan them. Many thanks, Ger From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 19:35:29 2011 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 20:35:29 +0100 Subject: [blindlaw] How to Get US Law Books, Please Help Message-ID: Dear all, I wonder if anyone could give me some advice on how to get law books from the US in electronic format? I really need to get a couple of leading textbooks, in constitutional, administrative and insurance law. They're big books so I don't want to scan them. Many thanks, Ger From law at cordovafirm.com Wed Jun 22 20:17:43 2011 From: law at cordovafirm.com (Marina A. Cordova, Esq.) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 14:17:43 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] How to Get US Law Books, Please Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <009b01cc3119$720ba150$5622e3f0$@com> Look at the westlaw site online. Do you mean US as in federal law? Any topics, such as con law can be looked at by topic. Or you can get general federal litigation such as Moore's. You can browse the website or call Eve Black at their sales department. Sales Rep Eve Black was really helpful and made it easy in ensuring that every book I purchased was emailed in Word format, along with the hardbound copy shipped to me. You can call Eve Black, Inside Sales CD/Print Consultant Phone: 800.328.9352 ext. 42157 or 651.244.2157 Eve's email is eve.black at thomsonreuters.com. Eve had Jill Vanderziel email me the books her email is jill.vanderziel at thomsonreuters.com Don't mess with Aspen Publishers/Wolters Kluwer they gave me a big headache about receiving electronic copy and I never got them thus far. I didn't have the time to pursue it yet. But I believe its now part of copyright law, that we are entitled to electronic copies. Shop around. It’s a matter of finding the books you need, then talking to the publisher abut receiving electronic format you want. Sincerely, Marina A. Cordova Attorney at Law 551 W. Cordova Road, # 234 Santa Fe, NM 87505 Office (505) 467-8395 Fax (505) 467-8746 law at cordovafirm.com Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it's the only thing that ever has.  - Margaret Mead CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email message (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC Section 2510-2521, and is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through this medium, please so advise the sender immediately. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Sadlier Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 1:35 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] How to Get US Law Books, Please Help Dear all, I wonder if anyone could give me some advice on how to get law books from the US in electronic format? I really need to get a couple of leading textbooks, in constitutional, administrative and insurance law. They're big books so I don't want to scan them. Many thanks, Ger _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/law%40cordovafirm. com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Jun 22 20:56:15 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:56:15 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Position at American Airlines Message-ID: From: CMPDL's Disability Discussion Docket (3D) [mailto:CMPDL-3D at MAIL.AMERICANBAR.ORG] On Behalf Of Phelan, William Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:04 AM To: CMPDL-3D at MAIL.AMERICANBAR.ORG Subject: Attorney Position at American Airlines Can search for the job at: http://www.aacareers.com/us/frame_index.htm?http&&&www.aacareers.com/us/index.shtml?from=Nav >From the page: *Attorney/General Counsel-TX-1102287 Description Management Position: Labor Attorney This description has been designed to indicate the general nature and level of work performed by employees within this classification. It is not designed to contain or be interpreted as a comprehensive inventory of all duties, responsibilities, and qualifications which may be required of employees assigned to this job classification. Job Description Seeking attorney with labor law experience to join American's legal department based in Fort Worth, Texas. Successful applicant will become a member of the department's Labor practice group, and will report to the Associate General Counsel. He or she will be responsible for providing prompt, accurate and ongoing legal advice to internal clients on a wide range of labor matters, including union contract negotiations, grievances and arbitrations, litigation, and administrative and regulatory matters, and will interact closely with various business units. The successful applicant will also be responsible for representing the company and affiliated companies in labor arbitration hearings, including witness preparation, case presentation, and the preparation of post-hearing briefs and other written products; and providing training on various labor-related matters. The successful applicant must possess: * Superior oral communication and writing skills. * Strong analytical skills. * Mature people skills, including an ability to lead through collaboration and an ability to manage outside counsel. * A strong work ethic and a proven ability to meet deadlines. * The ability to manage multiple projects simultaneously. * Ability to operate in fast-paced environment with a high level of autonomy. Most desirable characteristics include: * Prior work experience with the Railway Labor Act and/or National Labor Relations Act, and a familiarity with the Labor Management Reporting and Disclosure Act and union governance issues. * Prior experience in arbitration, litigation oversight and other management of outside counsel, counseling in contract negotiations, drafting collective bargaining agreement provisions, and union representation disputes. A familiarity with corporate structure and governance, and the economics of the airline industry. Qualifications * J.D. degree from an accredited university, with membership in good standing in the Bar Association of at least one state, preferably Texas. If candidate is not admitted to the State Bar of Texas, s/he must be eligible for immediate admission upon application. * Minimum 5 years experience as an attorney with a corporate in-house legal department, private law firm, or government agency * Legal specialization in labor relations, as described above. * Must pass a background reference check and criminal fingerprint check. * Strong PC skills. * Must be able to read, write, fluently speak and understand the English language. Ability to speak a foreign language is a plus. Job : LG-Attorney Primary Location : US-TX-Fort Worth Job Posting : Jun 13, 2011 : 05 Jul 2011 23:59:00 Equal Opportunity Employer : American Airlines is an equal opportunity employer. Work Schedule* : Full-Time William J. Phelan, IV, Esq. Special Projects & Technology Coordinator ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law T: 202-662-1576 william.phelan at americanbar.org http://www.americanbar.org/disability Notice: The contents of this e-mail may be confidential and/or privileged. If you have received this e-mail in error, or are not its intended recipient, please: do not print, copy, or distribute in any way the above message or its attachments; delete this e-mail from your computer; and inform the sender of this error. Thank you. ________________________________ From: Formella, Gregg [mailto:Gregg.Formella at aa.com] Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 3:03 PM To: Phelan, William Subject: RE: http://www.aa-promo.com/login.do And another thing: American recently posted a position for a labor attorney. Can you get this posted via a CMPDL site or list-serve? http://www.aacareers.com/us/frame_index.htm?http&&&www.aacareers.com/us/index.shtml?from=Nav Gregg Gregg Formella Senior Attorney AmericanAirlines(r) | We Know Why You Fly(r) | www.aa.com Direct Dial: 817.963.6207 | 817.967.2937 Fax | gregg.formella at aa.com PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL - attorney/client communication and/or attorney work product From: Formella, Gregg Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:44 PM To: 'Phelan, William' Subject: http://www.aa-promo.com/login.do Bill - Let's discuss the above link.. Gregg Gregg Formella Senior Attorney AmericanAirlines(r) | We Know Why You Fly(r) | www.aa.com FedEx/Mailing Address: MD 5675 | 4333 Amon Carter Blvd. | Fort Worth, TX 76155 Direct Dial: 817.963.6207 | 817.967.2937 Fax | gregg.formella at aa.com PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL - attorney/client communication and/or attorney work product ============== Going to respond to this message? Be sure to hit "Reply All" when doing so. Disability Discussion Docket (3D) ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law http://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_services/mental_physical_disability.html [cid:~WRD000.jpg] ------------------ Material distributed over 3D is for educational and informational purposes only. The contents of any e-mail, including any statements that may be construed as legal advice or referral, are solely the responsibility of the e-mail?s author. In no event shall any contents be the responsibility of and do not necessarily reflect the views of the American Bar Association, its officers, employees, agents or the Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law. ------------------ Getting too many e-mails? You can switch to the digest format by sending a message to listserv at mail.americanbar.org. Leave the subject blank and in the body of the message type "SET list HTML DIGEST". To return to the traditional subscription, follow the same directions, but put "SET list NODIGEST" in the body of the message. If you have any questions about 3D or the CMPDL in general, please contact William Phelan at william.phelan at americanbar.org. ______________________________________ Thank you for your continued interest in this list. A summary of your list subscriptions, including CMPDL-3D, can be found at http://apps.americanbar.org/elistserv/home.cfm . This new List Subscription Page allows you to manage your lists, as well as join others. If you have any issues you may either contact the list owner via email: CMPDL-3D-request at mail.americanbar.org, or the ABA Service Center at phone: 1-800-285-2221 or email: service at americanbar.org. ______________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ~WRD000.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: ~WRD000.jpg URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Jun 22 21:00:32 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 16:00:32 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com> <401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91> <4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I want to try your MAC, Patty! See you at the blind lawyers' meeting. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Patti Gregory Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 6:39 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I will have my mmac at convention. Do you want to try it? Patti S. Gregory-Chang NFB, Scholarship Comm. Chair Sent from my iPhone On Jun 19, 2011, at 5:02 PM, "William Burley, III" wrote: > Hi Patti. I think my general accessibility issues is just wanting to find > something that works consistently and I'm having more and more consistent > trouble with Jaws. I'm not generally sure what to ask other than what the > other gentleman asked as far as applications and the useability when working > in an industry that is heavily Windows based. > > Thanks for any info. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access > issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Burley, III" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > >> Hello all! >> >> >> >> Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly >> switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and >> accessibility. >> >> >> >> If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to >> using >> this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? >> What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many >> others using Windows products? >> >> >> >> Thanks for any information! >> >> >> >> >> >> William Burley, III >> >> (713) 614-3322 >> >> William.burley3 at gmail.com >> >> >> >> Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! >> >> Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more >> details. >> >> >> >> Need better internet service for cheaper? >> >> Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up >> TODAY! >> >> >> >> Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 > gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 21:04:28 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 17:04:28 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Question Message-ID: <2063636AC7D04A718B06B9869131B364@hometwxakonvzn> How are court transcripts done? I hear Casey Anthonies aturniey say, "Go to page seven, line 3. Is that how transcripts are written? RJ From rumpole at roadrunner.com Wed Jun 22 21:04:45 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 17:04:45 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. D.O.J. job posting Message-ID: <3B30D90F3D33461398858D4CAC72B45C@none8a46117901> * UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES SECTION DEPUTY CHIEF, GS-15 The position will remain open until filled, but applications must be submitted no later than July 11, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/oarmvacdepchief.htm Date posted: 06-22-2011 Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From rthomas at emplmntattorney.com Wed Jun 22 22:20:46 2011 From: rthomas at emplmntattorney.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:20:46 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Question In-Reply-To: <2063636AC7D04A718B06B9869131B364@hometwxakonvzn> References: <2063636AC7D04A718B06B9869131B364@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Yes; At least in California, a transcript is usually double spaced; the line numbers appear on the far left of the page, (usually 28 lines per page) and the page number appears at the bottom, (at least that is how it looks in JAWS). Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 www.emplmntattorney.com Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:04 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Question How are court transcripts done? I hear Casey Anthonies aturniey say, "Go to page seven, line 3. Is that how transcripts are written? RJ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From rthomas at emplmntattorney.com Wed Jun 22 22:23:21 2011 From: rthomas at emplmntattorney.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:23:21 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> Message-ID: How usable is a Mac with a screen reader? Isn't Apple a little late to the party, on the issue of accessibility? It took a Court case to force Apple to make the Ipod accessible. I suppose, better late than never. Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 www.emplmntattorney.com Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:01 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I want to try your MAC, Patty! See you at the blind lawyers' meeting. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Patti Gregory Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 6:39 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I will have my mmac at convention. Do you want to try it? Patti S. Gregory-Chang NFB, Scholarship Comm. Chair Sent from my iPhone On Jun 19, 2011, at 5:02 PM, "William Burley, III" wrote: > Hi Patti. I think my general accessibility issues is just wanting to find > something that works consistently and I'm having more and more consistent > trouble with Jaws. I'm not generally sure what to ask other than what the > other gentleman asked as far as applications and the useability when working > in an industry that is heavily Windows based. > > Thanks for any info. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access > issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Burley, III" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > >> Hello all! >> >> >> >> Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly >> switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and >> accessibility. >> >> >> >> If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to >> using >> this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? >> What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many >> others using Windows products? >> >> >> >> Thanks for any information! >> >> >> >> >> >> William Burley, III >> >> (713) 614-3322 >> >> William.burley3 at gmail.com >> >> >> >> Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! >> >> Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more >> details. >> >> >> >> Need better internet service for cheaper? >> >> Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up >> TODAY! >> >> >> >> Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 > gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%4 0ed.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40emplmnta ttorney.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 22 22:50:57 2011 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:50:57 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7139F969-95BD-40DD-A299-24ECDDF87E32@sbcglobal.net> On the contrary; Apple is the FIRST company to include a superbly functional screenreader as part of its OS. While some may pay an extra $1200 for Jaws before being able to use their newly purchased computer, or must apply to an agency for it, Apple's Macintosh products--and now all of their newer I-devices--come ready to speak right out of the box. Apple is, in my opinion, the party. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From lists at zufelt.ca Thu Jun 23 00:11:27 2011 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 20:11:27 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <71C36B8D-E3C7-4F59-A8E1-55D960B63AFB@zufelt.ca> Good evening, 1. Can you please provide a reference for the court case, I wasn't aware of that. 2. Microsoft has * never * released a portable device with a built-in screen-reader. Windows Phone 7 is not even capable of using a third party screen-reader. HTH, Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-06-22, at 6:23 PM, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. wrote: > How usable is a Mac with a screen reader? Isn't Apple a little late to the > party, on the issue of accessibility? It took a Court case to force Apple to > make the Ipod accessible. I suppose, better late than never. > > > Respectfully, > > > > Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > > Newport Beach, California 92660 > > T: (949) 752-0101 > > F: (949) 257-4756 > > M: (949) 466-7238 > > www.emplmntattorney.com > > Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:01 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I want to try your MAC, Patty! See you at the blind lawyers' meeting. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Patti Gregory > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 6:39 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I will have my mmac at convention. Do you want to try it? > > Patti S. Gregory-Chang > NFB, Scholarship Comm. Chair > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 19, 2011, at 5:02 PM, "William Burley, III" > wrote: > >> Hi Patti. I think my general accessibility issues is just wanting to find >> something that works consistently and I'm having more and more consistent >> trouble with Jaws. I'm not generally sure what to ask other than what the >> other gentleman asked as far as applications and the useability when > working >> in an industry that is heavily Windows based. >> >> Thanks for any info. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang >> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:46 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? >> >> I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access >> issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "William Burley, III" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? >> >> >>> Hello all! >>> >>> >>> >>> Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering > possibly >>> switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws and >>> accessibility. >>> >>> >>> >>> If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons to >>> using >>> this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you make that work? >>> What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so many >>> others using Windows products? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for any information! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> William Burley, III >>> >>> (713) 614-3322 >>> >>> William.burley3 at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, > L.L.C.! >>> >>> Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more >>> details. >>> >>> >>> >>> Need better internet service for cheaper? >>> >>> Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up >>> TODAY! >>> >>> >>> >>> Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 >> gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n > et > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%4 > 0ed.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40emplmnta > ttorney.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Thu Jun 23 00:26:14 2011 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 00:26:14 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn><2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn><687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E100226@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Hi RJ, I read the opinion, and I think the key holding is that the learned Justices said that it doesn't matter the commendations of other cases, that the key point is what works for the individuals who are taking the exam. Take my personal situation. I am getting ready to take the MPRE this August 5th. I wrote a letter requesting the use of JAWS as when I was in primary school and high school, my amount of vision was such that I could read large print. I learned Braille after going completely blind at eighteen years of age but never used it as my primary form of literacy. I requested that if JAWS would not be permitted, I would take the exam in Braille but also requested triple time so that I would be able to slowly painstakingly read each question to understand it. I told them that JAWS was my first choice, but as a second choice I was willing to take the exam in Braille and as a third and final choice, in an audio format. They granted my request to take the exam in Braille with triple time. So, we both gave a little. At this point your most likely asking, "Why give them an option?" Because if I take the exam in Braille and fail it, which I do not believe I will do, or take the Exam using audio and also fail it, my argument, if I were to sue, will be strengthened. After jumping through all these hoops, I am better able to show for me as an individual JAWS would be the most accessible option and thus the opinion of the ninth circuit is very persuasive. As a lawyer, even a student one, whenever I walk into court I must have the strongest arguments supporting my client's position, and be able to present evidence supporting those arguments. If I were to request JAWS, then sue after being denied without trying the other formats, then I risk this situation. Lawyer for NCBE "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had Braille education in the past." My response must be "Yes" NCBE Lawyer" Then why did you not attempt the exam in Braille?" My response "Because I am unsure if I have the Braille skills to complete the exam in the time given." NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you did not attempt to take the exam in Braille so you still do not know if your skills would have enabled you to complete the exam in Braille." My response would have to be "No, I do not know if I do in fact have the skills." Or, NCBE Lawyer, "Mr. Dittman Did you explain to the NCBE why the formats of Audio, Reader, Braille, and other factors such as extended time would not work for you?" My response "yes in a letter." NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you are unwilling to try them?" My response "Yes" NCBE lawyer, "So, you truly do not know if one of the offered forms of accommodation would have been adequate for you to complete the exam." My response would have to be "No, having not taken the exam in those offered formats I do not know if they would have worked." NCBE "Your honor, this case is one in which the plaintiff was unwilling to accommodate the concerns of the NCBE as they contend that the MPRE and MBE are exams that are based on paper and completed with a pencil. The Plaintiff would like this court to grant him the ability to greatly deviate from the normal administration of the exam by using a personal computer without trying the proffered forms of accommodation which may have worked. The ninth Circuit held that it is the accommodations that work for the individual that concern us in these types of cases, and yet Mr. Dittman's suit cannot answer if these other forms of accommodations would or would have not worked as he failed to give them a chance. Now, because of the rout I have taken by given the NCBE a little wiggle room or more to the point by negotiating with them, the interaction can be this. NCBE Counsel, "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had some Braille education in the past?" My response "Yes." NCBE Counsel "And yet you still maintain that a screen reader is the only form of accommodation?" My response "Yes" NCBE Counsel "Will you please explain to the court why you believe this?" My response "I have taken the exam using extended time, in Braille, and by audio formats. Even despite using all of these accommodations I was unable to adequately understand the call of each question in the time allotted. I would submit to this court that I have been completely fair to the NCBE in working with them to address their concerns. I only ask that they now be made to understand that by the evidence I have presented that the screen reader is the only method that will truly provide me with an equal level field of access. Accommodations are in place to provide the person requesting them an even chance to complete the task as others without the disability. I have shown that I am more than willing to try the offered accommodations, and now ask the court's support in ordering the NCBE to try my requested form of accommodations. The ninth Circuit held that it is the accommodations that work for the individual that concern us in these types of cases, and given that I have tried all the other offered forms of accommodations and yet still have been unable to pass the exam, then the only just and right remedy left for us is for this court to order the NCBE to grant my requested form of accommodation of a screen reader." But, we won't have to go that far because I'm going to pass the MPRE and the MBE whatever accommodations they throw at me and get out there and advocate for equal treatment under the law. This was kind of fun. Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX  78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760  fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:34 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: Please read the opinion attached ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > What are the general facts of Stephanie's case? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:25 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> What about Stephanie's Case? RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dittman, Robert" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some >> clarity of the argument is in order. >> >> The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the >> LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school. This is not true as I and >> many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT. Was it easy, >> nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a >> separate issue from the exam itself. >> >> I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the >> accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. >> >> But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should >> not be able to bring their concerns before the court. >> >> I do have some questions. >> >> First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that they >> were "top tier". Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? >> Was it close, within a point or two? How did the plaintiff do on the >> questions that are not the puzzles? Much of the exam is perfectly >> understandable by a blind person. Perhaps there is another reason why >> they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed >> to enquiry? >> >> Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my >> school and others. I was accepted into my school of choice on a >> provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full >> admittance. Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under >> such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they >> had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, >> and even sat in on a class or two and met with students, professors, and >> other staff so that when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was >> remembered. However, given all this it was very hard for me and >> countless others to get into law school. The selection committees look at >> the whole person so in the words of one professor, "There has to be >> something that says to us, you belong in the profession of law." What >> did the rest of this person's package look like? >> >> >> So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely >> prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to >> enter. I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is >> for the court to rule upon. I am saying that placing all of the blame at >> the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. >> >> With respect, >> >> >> Robert D. Dittman >> Student Attorney >> St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) >> 2507 N.W. 36th Street >> San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 >> Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 >> Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any >> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may >> contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized >> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not >> the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail >> and destroy all copies of the original message. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these >> United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider >> becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame >> discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, >> is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take >> them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT >> will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the >>> LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. >>> Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having >>> accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate >>> material on it. >>> Beth >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi, Michael. >>>>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>>>> into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>>>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>>>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>>>> Good luck >>>>> Beth Taurasi >>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Greetings! all: >>>>>> >>>>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>>>> does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>>> >>>>>> Respectfully! >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>>>> * >>>>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>>>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >>>> oose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks >>> andefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From mikefry79 at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 00:55:37 2011 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 17:55:37 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E100226@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com> <92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn> <2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn> <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E100226@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: Hi Mike, I highly recommend that you take the Kaplan LSAT review course. You need to study your butt off for the LSAT. Take the review course and do all the practice exams. The review course is about $1,000. In my opinion, well worth it. Talk to your undergraduate schools career services about options for paying for the LSAT and LSAT review course. Don't let the NPR story get you down. The reality is that nearly everyone on this list is blind and took the LSAT and is a practicing attorney. I notice that sometimes NPR sensationalizing stories. Hi Beth, How do you use your iphone while being visually impaired? I ask because I want an iphone but am under the impression they don't work well for the visually impaired. On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Dittman, Robert wrote: > Hi RJ, > > I read the opinion, and I think the key holding is that the learned Justices said that it doesn't matter the commendations of other cases, that the key point is what works for the individuals who are taking the exam. > > Take my personal situation. I am getting ready to take the MPRE this August 5th. I wrote a letter requesting the use of JAWS as when I was in primary school and high school, my amount of vision was such that I could read large print.  I learned Braille after going completely blind at eighteen years of age but never used it as my primary form of literacy. I requested that if JAWS would not be permitted, I would take the exam in Braille but also requested triple time so that I would be able to slowly painstakingly read each question to understand it. I told them that JAWS was my first choice, but as a second choice I was willing to take the exam in Braille and as a third and final choice, in an audio format. > > They granted my request to take the exam in Braille with triple time.  So, we both gave a little. > At this point your most likely asking, "Why give them an option?"  Because if I take the exam in Braille and fail it, which I do not believe I will do, or take the Exam using audio and also fail it, my argument, if I were to sue, will be strengthened.  After jumping through all these hoops, I am better able to show for me as an individual JAWS would be the most accessible option and thus the opinion of the ninth circuit is very persuasive. > > As a lawyer, even a student one,  whenever I walk into court I must have the strongest arguments supporting my client's position, and be able to present evidence supporting those arguments.  If I were to request JAWS, then sue after being denied without trying the other formats, then I risk this situation. > > Lawyer for NCBE "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had Braille education in the past." > My response must be "Yes" > NCBE Lawyer" Then why did you not attempt the exam in Braille?" > My response "Because I am unsure if I have the Braille skills to complete the exam in the time given." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you did not attempt to take the exam in Braille so you still do not know if your skills would have enabled you to complete the exam in Braille." > My response would have to be "No, I do not know if I do in fact have the skills." > Or, > NCBE Lawyer, "Mr. Dittman Did you explain to the NCBE why the formats of Audio, Reader, Braille, and other factors such as extended time would not work for you?" > My response "yes in a letter." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you are unwilling to try them?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE lawyer, "So, you truly do not know if one of the offered forms of accommodation would have been adequate for you to complete the exam." > My response would have to be  "No, having not taken the exam in those offered formats I do not know if they would have worked." > > NCBE "Your honor, this case is one in which the plaintiff was unwilling to accommodate the concerns of the NCBE as they contend that the MPRE and MBE are exams that are based on paper and completed with a pencil. The Plaintiff would like this court to grant him the ability to greatly deviate from the normal administration of the exam by using a personal computer without trying the proffered forms of accommodation which may have worked.  The ninth Circuit held that it is the accommodations that work for the individual that concern us in these types of cases, and yet Mr. Dittman's suit cannot answer if these other forms of accommodations would or would have not worked as he failed to give them a chance. > > Now, because of the rout I have taken by given the NCBE a little wiggle room or more to the point by negotiating with them, the interaction can be this. > > NCBE Counsel, "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had some Braille education in the past?" > My response "Yes." > NCBE Counsel "And yet you still maintain that a screen reader is the only form of accommodation?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE Counsel "Will you please explain to the court why you believe this?" > My response "I have taken the exam using extended time, in Braille, and by audio formats. Even despite using all of these accommodations I was unable to adequately understand the call of each question in the time allotted. I would submit to this court that I have been completely fair to the NCBE in working with them to address their concerns. I only ask that they now be made to understand that by the evidence I have presented that the screen reader is the only method that will truly provide me with an equal level field of access.  Accommodations are in place to provide the person requesting them an even chance to complete the task as others without the disability. I have shown that I am more than willing to try the offered accommodations, and now ask the court's support in ordering the NCBE to try my requested form of accommodations. The ninth Circuit held that it is the accommodations that work for the individual that concern us in these types of cases, and given that I have tried all the other offered forms of accommodations and yet still have been unable to pass the exam, then the only just and right remedy left for us is for this court to order the NCBE to grant my requested form of accommodation of a screen reader." > > But, we won't have to go that far because I'm going to pass the MPRE and the MBE whatever accommodations they throw at me and get out there and advocate for equal treatment under the law. > > This was kind of fun. > > > Robert D. Dittman > Student Attorney > St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) > 2507 N.W. 36th Street > San Antonio, TX  78228-3918 > Phone: (210) 431-5760  fax: (210) 431-5700 > Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail > and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:34 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > Please read the opinion attached > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:50 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> What are the general facts of Stephanie's case? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> What about Stephanie's Case? RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dittman, Robert" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some >>> clarity of the argument is in order. >>> >>> The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the >>> LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school.  This is not true as I and >>> many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT.  Was it easy, >>> nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a >>> separate issue from the exam itself. >>> >>> I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the >>> accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. >>> >>> But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should >>> not be able to bring their concerns before the court. >>> >>> I do have some questions. >>> >>> First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that they >>> were "top tier".  Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? >>> Was it close, within a point or two?  How did the plaintiff do on the >>> questions that are not the puzzles?  Much of the exam is perfectly >>> understandable by a blind person.  Perhaps there is another reason why >>> they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed >>> to enquiry? >>> >>> Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my >>> school and others.  I was accepted into my school of choice on a >>> provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full >>> admittance.  Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under >>> such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they >>> had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, >>> and even sat in on a class or two and met with students, professors, and >>> other staff so that when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was >>> remembered.  However, given all this it was very hard for me and >>> countless others to get into law school. The selection committees look at >>> the whole person so in the words of one professor, "There has to be >>> something that says to us, you belong in the profession of law."  What >>> did the rest of this person's package look like? >>> >>> >>> So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely >>> prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to >>> enter.  I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is >>> for the court to rule upon.  I am saying that placing all of the blame at >>> the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. >>> >>> With respect, >>> >>> >>> Robert D. Dittman >>> Student Attorney >>> St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) >>> 2507 N.W. 36th Street >>> San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 >>> Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 >>> Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu >>> >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any >>> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may >>> contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized >>> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not >>> the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail >>> and destroy all copies of the original message. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these >>> United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider >>> becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame >>> discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, >>> is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take >>> them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT >>> will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>>> I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the >>>> LSAT is what it is.  It's worse than having to do quant comps. >>>> Remember those things on the SAT?  The only difference is that having >>>> accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate >>>> material on it. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Michael. >>>>>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>>>>> into law school.  You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>>>>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>>>>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>>>>> Good luck >>>>>> Beth Taurasi >>>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Greetings! all: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>>>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>>>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>>>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>>>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>>>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>>>>> does online.  I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>>>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>>>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>>>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>>>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>>>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>>>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>>>>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >>>>> oose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks >>>> andefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 01:11:48 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 21:11:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn><2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn><687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu><687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E100226@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: What do others of you think of this opinion? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Fry" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: Hi Mike, I highly recommend that you take the Kaplan LSAT review course. You need to study your butt off for the LSAT. Take the review course and do all the practice exams. The review course is about $1,000. In my opinion, well worth it. Talk to your undergraduate schools career services about options for paying for the LSAT and LSAT review course. Don't let the NPR story get you down. The reality is that nearly everyone on this list is blind and took the LSAT and is a practicing attorney. I notice that sometimes NPR sensationalizing stories. Hi Beth, How do you use your iphone while being visually impaired? I ask because I want an iphone but am under the impression they don't work well for the visually impaired. On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Dittman, Robert wrote: > Hi RJ, > > I read the opinion, and I think the key holding is that the learned > Justices said that it doesn't matter the commendations of other cases, > that the key point is what works for the individuals who are taking the > exam. > > Take my personal situation. I am getting ready to take the MPRE this > August 5th. I wrote a letter requesting the use of JAWS as when I was in > primary school and high school, my amount of vision was such that I could > read large print. I learned Braille after going completely blind at > eighteen years of age but never used it as my primary form of literacy. I > requested that if JAWS would not be permitted, I would take the exam in > Braille but also requested triple time so that I would be able to slowly > painstakingly read each question to understand it. I told them that JAWS > was my first choice, but as a second choice I was willing to take the exam > in Braille and as a third and final choice, in an audio format. > > They granted my request to take the exam in Braille with triple time. So, > we both gave a little. > At this point your most likely asking, "Why give them an option?" Because > if I take the exam in Braille and fail it, which I do not believe I will > do, or take the Exam using audio and also fail it, my argument, if I were > to sue, will be strengthened. After jumping through all these hoops, I am > better able to show for me as an individual JAWS would be the most > accessible option and thus the opinion of the ninth circuit is very > persuasive. > > As a lawyer, even a student one, whenever I walk into court I must have > the strongest arguments supporting my client's position, and be able to > present evidence supporting those arguments. If I were to request JAWS, > then sue after being denied without trying the other formats, then I risk > this situation. > > Lawyer for NCBE "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had Braille > education in the past." > My response must be "Yes" > NCBE Lawyer" Then why did you not attempt the exam in Braille?" > My response "Because I am unsure if I have the Braille skills to complete > the exam in the time given." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you did not attempt to take the exam in Braille so > you still do not know if your skills would have enabled you to complete > the exam in Braille." > My response would have to be "No, I do not know if I do in fact have the > skills." > Or, > NCBE Lawyer, "Mr. Dittman Did you explain to the NCBE why the formats of > Audio, Reader, Braille, and other factors such as extended time would not > work for you?" > My response "yes in a letter." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you are unwilling to try them?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE lawyer, "So, you truly do not know if one of the offered forms of > accommodation would have been adequate for you to complete the exam." > My response would have to be "No, having not taken the exam in those > offered formats I do not know if they would have worked." > > NCBE "Your honor, this case is one in which the plaintiff was unwilling to > accommodate the concerns of the NCBE as they contend that the MPRE and MBE > are exams that are based on paper and completed with a pencil. The > Plaintiff would like this court to grant him the ability to greatly > deviate from the normal administration of the exam by using a personal > computer without trying the proffered forms of accommodation which may > have worked. The ninth Circuit held that it is the accommodations that > work for the individual that concern us in these types of cases, and yet > Mr. Dittman's suit cannot answer if these other forms of accommodations > would or would have not worked as he failed to give them a chance. > > Now, because of the rout I have taken by given the NCBE a little wiggle > room or more to the point by negotiating with them, the interaction can be > this. > > NCBE Counsel, "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had some Braille > education in the past?" > My response "Yes." > NCBE Counsel "And yet you still maintain that a screen reader is the only > form of accommodation?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE Counsel "Will you please explain to the court why you believe this?" > My response "I have taken the exam using extended time, in Braille, and by > audio formats. Even despite using all of these accommodations I was unable > to adequately understand the call of each question in the time allotted. I > would submit to this court that I have been completely fair to the NCBE in > working with them to address their concerns. I only ask that they now be > made to understand that by the evidence I have presented that the screen > reader is the only method that will truly provide me with an equal level > field of access. Accommodations are in place to provide the person > requesting them an even chance to complete the task as others without the > disability. I have shown that I am more than willing to try the offered > accommodations, and now ask the court's support in ordering the NCBE to > try my requested form of accommodations. The ninth Circuit held that it is > the accommodations that work for the individual that concern us in these > types of cases, and given that I have tried all the other offered forms of > accommodations and yet still have been unable to pass the exam, then the > only just and right remedy left for us is for this court to order the NCBE > to grant my requested form of accommodation of a screen reader." > > But, we won't have to go that far because I'm going to pass the MPRE and > the MBE whatever accommodations they throw at me and get out there and > advocate for equal treatment under the law. > > This was kind of fun. > > > Robert D. Dittman > Student Attorney > St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) > 2507 N.W. 36th Street > San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 > Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 > Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail > and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:34 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > Please read the opinion attached > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:50 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> What are the general facts of Stephanie's case? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> What about Stephanie's Case? RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dittman, Robert" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some >>> clarity of the argument is in order. >>> >>> The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the >>> LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school. This is not true as I and >>> many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT. Was it easy, >>> nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a >>> separate issue from the exam itself. >>> >>> I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the >>> accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. >>> >>> But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should >>> not be able to bring their concerns before the court. >>> >>> I do have some questions. >>> >>> First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that >>> they >>> were "top tier". Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? >>> Was it close, within a point or two? How did the plaintiff do on the >>> questions that are not the puzzles? Much of the exam is perfectly >>> understandable by a blind person. Perhaps there is another reason why >>> they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed >>> to enquiry? >>> >>> Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my >>> school and others. I was accepted into my school of choice on a >>> provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full >>> admittance. Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under >>> such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they >>> had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, >>> and even sat in on a class or two and met with students, professors, and >>> other staff so that when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was >>> remembered. However, given all this it was very hard for me and >>> countless others to get into law school. The selection committees look >>> at >>> the whole person so in the words of one professor, "There has to be >>> something that says to us, you belong in the profession of law." What >>> did the rest of this person's package look like? >>> >>> >>> So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely >>> prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to >>> enter. I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is >>> for the court to rule upon. I am saying that placing all of the blame at >>> the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. >>> >>> With respect, >>> >>> >>> Robert D. Dittman >>> Student Attorney >>> St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil >>> Clinic) >>> 2507 N.W. 36th Street >>> San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 >>> Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 >>> Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu >>> >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any >>> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may >>> contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized >>> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not >>> the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail >>> and destroy all copies of the original message. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these >>> United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider >>> becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame >>> discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, >>> is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take >>> them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT >>> will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>>> I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the >>>> LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. >>>> Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having >>>> accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate >>>> material on it. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Michael. >>>>>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>>>>> into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>>>>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>>>>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>>>>> Good luck >>>>>> Beth Taurasi >>>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Greetings! all: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>>>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>>>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>>>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>>>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>>>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>>>>> does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>>>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>>>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>>>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>>>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>>>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>>>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>>>>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >>>>> oose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks >>>> andefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Thu Jun 23 01:20:52 2011 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 01:20:52 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com> <92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn> <2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn> <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu> <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E100226@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E1002C2@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Hi Mike, I use an IPhone and love it. The screen reader, voice over, is very easy to learn and use. You place your finger on the screen, move it around, and the IPhone reads everything out to you. Get your hands on one and you will love it. At the time of this message, Verizon and AT&T are the only two cellular providers who have the IPhone. Good luck and I would be happy to help in any way I can. Rob Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX  78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760  fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Fry Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:56 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: Hi Mike, I highly recommend that you take the Kaplan LSAT review course. You need to study your butt off for the LSAT. Take the review course and do all the practice exams. The review course is about $1,000. In my opinion, well worth it. Talk to your undergraduate schools career services about options for paying for the LSAT and LSAT review course. Don't let the NPR story get you down. The reality is that nearly everyone on this list is blind and took the LSAT and is a practicing attorney. I notice that sometimes NPR sensationalizing stories. Hi Beth, How do you use your iphone while being visually impaired? I ask because I want an iphone but am under the impression they don't work well for the visually impaired. On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Dittman, Robert wrote: > Hi RJ, > > I read the opinion, and I think the key holding is that the learned Justices said that it doesn't matter the commendations of other cases, that the key point is what works for the individuals who are taking the exam. > > Take my personal situation. I am getting ready to take the MPRE this August 5th. I wrote a letter requesting the use of JAWS as when I was in primary school and high school, my amount of vision was such that I could read large print.  I learned Braille after going completely blind at eighteen years of age but never used it as my primary form of literacy. I requested that if JAWS would not be permitted, I would take the exam in Braille but also requested triple time so that I would be able to slowly painstakingly read each question to understand it. I told them that JAWS was my first choice, but as a second choice I was willing to take the exam in Braille and as a third and final choice, in an audio format. > > They granted my request to take the exam in Braille with triple time.  So, we both gave a little. > At this point your most likely asking, "Why give them an option?"  Because if I take the exam in Braille and fail it, which I do not believe I will do, or take the Exam using audio and also fail it, my argument, if I were to sue, will be strengthened.  After jumping through all these hoops, I am better able to show for me as an individual JAWS would be the most accessible option and thus the opinion of the ninth circuit is very persuasive. > > As a lawyer, even a student one,  whenever I walk into court I must have the strongest arguments supporting my client's position, and be able to present evidence supporting those arguments.  If I were to request JAWS, then sue after being denied without trying the other formats, then I risk this situation. > > Lawyer for NCBE "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had Braille education in the past." > My response must be "Yes" > NCBE Lawyer" Then why did you not attempt the exam in Braille?" > My response "Because I am unsure if I have the Braille skills to complete the exam in the time given." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you did not attempt to take the exam in Braille so you still do not know if your skills would have enabled you to complete the exam in Braille." > My response would have to be "No, I do not know if I do in fact have the skills." > Or, > NCBE Lawyer, "Mr. Dittman Did you explain to the NCBE why the formats of Audio, Reader, Braille, and other factors such as extended time would not work for you?" > My response "yes in a letter." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you are unwilling to try them?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE lawyer, "So, you truly do not know if one of the offered forms of accommodation would have been adequate for you to complete the exam." > My response would have to be  "No, having not taken the exam in those offered formats I do not know if they would have worked." > > NCBE "Your honor, this case is one in which the plaintiff was unwilling to accommodate the concerns of the NCBE as they contend that the MPRE and MBE are exams that are based on paper and completed with a pencil. The Plaintiff would like this court to grant him the ability to greatly deviate from the normal administration of the exam by using a personal computer without trying the proffered forms of accommodation which may have worked.  The ninth Circuit held that it is the accommodations that work for the individual that concern us in these types of cases, and yet Mr. Dittman's suit cannot answer if these other forms of accommodations would or would have not worked as he failed to give them a chance. > > Now, because of the rout I have taken by given the NCBE a little wiggle room or more to the point by negotiating with them, the interaction can be this. > > NCBE Counsel, "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had some Braille education in the past?" > My response "Yes." > NCBE Counsel "And yet you still maintain that a screen reader is the only form of accommodation?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE Counsel "Will you please explain to the court why you believe this?" > My response "I have taken the exam using extended time, in Braille, and by audio formats. Even despite using all of these accommodations I was unable to adequately understand the call of each question in the time allotted. I would submit to this court that I have been completely fair to the NCBE in working with them to address their concerns. I only ask that they now be made to understand that by the evidence I have presented that the screen reader is the only method that will truly provide me with an equal level field of access.  Accommodations are in place to provide the person requesting them an even chance to complete the task as others without the disability. I have shown that I am more than willing to try the offered accommodations, and now ask the court's support in ordering the NCBE to try my requested form of accommodations. The ninth Circuit held that it is the accommodations that work for the individual that concern us in these types of cases, and given that I have tried all the other offered forms of accommodations and yet still have been unable to pass the exam, then the only just and right remedy left for us is for this court to order the NCBE to grant my requested form of accommodation of a screen reader." > > But, we won't have to go that far because I'm going to pass the MPRE and the MBE whatever accommodations they throw at me and get out there and advocate for equal treatment under the law. > > This was kind of fun. > > > Robert D. Dittman > Student Attorney > St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil > Clinic) > 2507 N.W. 36th Street > San Antonio, TX  78228-3918 > Phone: (210) 431-5760  fax: (210) 431-5700 > Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail > and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:34 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > Please read the opinion attached > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:50 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> What are the general facts of Stephanie's case? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> What about Stephanie's Case? RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dittman, Robert" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some >>> clarity of the argument is in order. >>> >>> The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" >>> the LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school.  This is not true >>> as I and many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT.   >>> Was it easy, nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, >>> but that is a separate issue from the exam itself. >>> >>> I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the >>> accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. >>> >>> But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person >>> should not be able to bring their concerns before the court. >>> >>> I do have some questions. >>> >>> First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that >>> they were "top tier".  Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? >>> Was it close, within a point or two?  How did the plaintiff do on >>> the questions that are not the puzzles?  Much of the exam is >>> perfectly understandable by a blind person.  Perhaps there is >>> another reason why they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a >>> lack of admission closed to enquiry? >>> >>> Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my >>> school and others.  I was accepted into my school of choice on a >>> provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full >>> admittance.  Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school >>> under such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school >>> that they had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they >>> knew my name, and even sat in on a class or two and met with >>> students, professors, and other staff so that when my application >>> hit their desk, I am sure I was remembered.  However, given all this >>> it was very hard for me and countless others to get into law school. >>> The selection committees look at the whole person so in the words of >>> one professor, "There has to be something that says to us, you >>> belong in the profession of law."  What did the rest of this person's package look like? >>> >>> >>> So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely >>> prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped >>> to enter.  I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, >>> that is for the court to rule upon.  I am saying that placing all of >>> the blame at the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. >>> >>> With respect, >>> >>> >>> Robert D. Dittman >>> Student Attorney >>> St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil >>> Clinic) >>> 2507 N.W. 36th Street >>> San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 >>> Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 >>> Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu >>> >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any >>> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and >>> may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any >>> unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. >>> If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the >>> sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of >>> these United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should >>> consider becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've >>> overcame discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you >>> can do Beth, is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to >>> take, then take them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter >>> law school, the LSAT will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>>> I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the >>>> LSAT is what it is.  It's worse than having to do quant comps. >>>> Remember those things on the SAT?  The only difference is that >>>> having accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had >>>> inappropriate material on it. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>>> >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Michael. >>>>>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>>>>> into law school.  You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>>>>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>>>>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>>>>> Good luck >>>>>> Beth Taurasi >>>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Greetings! all: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>>>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I >>>>>>> am able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>>>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on >>>>>>> UNB Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the >>>>>>> admission office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, >>>>>>> that one does online.  I at this present time do not have access >>>>>>> to a Credit Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to >>>>>>> pay the cost of the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence >>>>>>> stuff completed no later then the end of March 2012. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>>>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>>>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>>>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/theblu >>>>>>> esi >>>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jolting >>>>>> jac >>>>>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/theblues >>>>> isl >>>>> oose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingja >>>> cks >>>> andefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%4 >>> 0stmarytx.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40s >>> bcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjack >> sandefur%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40 > gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Thu Jun 23 01:25:04 2011 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 01:25:04 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn><2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn><687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu><687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E100226@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E1002F1@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> I used a LSAT review course through my undergrad school. It was about $500, but Kaplan has done wonders for me while in law school so would trust them to deliver. Good luck. Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX  78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760  fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:12 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: What do others of you think of this opinion? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Fry" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: Hi Mike, I highly recommend that you take the Kaplan LSAT review course. You need to study your butt off for the LSAT. Take the review course and do all the practice exams. The review course is about $1,000. In my opinion, well worth it. Talk to your undergraduate schools career services about options for paying for the LSAT and LSAT review course. Don't let the NPR story get you down. The reality is that nearly everyone on this list is blind and took the LSAT and is a practicing attorney. I notice that sometimes NPR sensationalizing stories. Hi Beth, How do you use your iphone while being visually impaired? I ask because I want an iphone but am under the impression they don't work well for the visually impaired. On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Dittman, Robert wrote: > Hi RJ, > > I read the opinion, and I think the key holding is that the learned > Justices said that it doesn't matter the commendations of other cases, > that the key point is what works for the individuals who are taking the > exam. > > Take my personal situation. I am getting ready to take the MPRE this > August 5th. I wrote a letter requesting the use of JAWS as when I was in > primary school and high school, my amount of vision was such that I could > read large print. I learned Braille after going completely blind at > eighteen years of age but never used it as my primary form of literacy. I > requested that if JAWS would not be permitted, I would take the exam in > Braille but also requested triple time so that I would be able to slowly > painstakingly read each question to understand it. I told them that JAWS > was my first choice, but as a second choice I was willing to take the exam > in Braille and as a third and final choice, in an audio format. > > They granted my request to take the exam in Braille with triple time. So, > we both gave a little. > At this point your most likely asking, "Why give them an option?" Because > if I take the exam in Braille and fail it, which I do not believe I will > do, or take the Exam using audio and also fail it, my argument, if I were > to sue, will be strengthened. After jumping through all these hoops, I am > better able to show for me as an individual JAWS would be the most > accessible option and thus the opinion of the ninth circuit is very > persuasive. > > As a lawyer, even a student one, whenever I walk into court I must have > the strongest arguments supporting my client's position, and be able to > present evidence supporting those arguments. If I were to request JAWS, > then sue after being denied without trying the other formats, then I risk > this situation. > > Lawyer for NCBE "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had Braille > education in the past." > My response must be "Yes" > NCBE Lawyer" Then why did you not attempt the exam in Braille?" > My response "Because I am unsure if I have the Braille skills to complete > the exam in the time given." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you did not attempt to take the exam in Braille so > you still do not know if your skills would have enabled you to complete > the exam in Braille." > My response would have to be "No, I do not know if I do in fact have the > skills." > Or, > NCBE Lawyer, "Mr. Dittman Did you explain to the NCBE why the formats of > Audio, Reader, Braille, and other factors such as extended time would not > work for you?" > My response "yes in a letter." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you are unwilling to try them?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE lawyer, "So, you truly do not know if one of the offered forms of > accommodation would have been adequate for you to complete the exam." > My response would have to be "No, having not taken the exam in those > offered formats I do not know if they would have worked." > > NCBE "Your honor, this case is one in which the plaintiff was unwilling to > accommodate the concerns of the NCBE as they contend that the MPRE and MBE > are exams that are based on paper and completed with a pencil. The > Plaintiff would like this court to grant him the ability to greatly > deviate from the normal administration of the exam by using a personal > computer without trying the proffered forms of accommodation which may > have worked. The ninth Circuit held that it is the accommodations that > work for the individual that concern us in these types of cases, and yet > Mr. Dittman's suit cannot answer if these other forms of accommodations > would or would have not worked as he failed to give them a chance. > > Now, because of the rout I have taken by given the NCBE a little wiggle > room or more to the point by negotiating with them, the interaction can be > this. > > NCBE Counsel, "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had some Braille > education in the past?" > My response "Yes." > NCBE Counsel "And yet you still maintain that a screen reader is the only > form of accommodation?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE Counsel "Will you please explain to the court why you believe this?" > My response "I have taken the exam using extended time, in Braille, and by > audio formats. Even despite using all of these accommodations I was unable > to adequately understand the call of each question in the time allotted. I > would submit to this court that I have been completely fair to the NCBE in > working with them to address their concerns. I only ask that they now be > made to understand that by the evidence I have presented that the screen > reader is the only method that will truly provide me with an equal level > field of access. Accommodations are in place to provide the person > requesting them an even chance to complete the task as others without the > disability. I have shown that I am more than willing to try the offered > accommodations, and now ask the court's support in ordering the NCBE to > try my requested form of accommodations. The ninth Circuit held that it is > the accommodations that work for the individual that concern us in these > types of cases, and given that I have tried all the other offered forms of > accommodations and yet still have been unable to pass the exam, then the > only just and right remedy left for us is for this court to order the NCBE > to grant my requested form of accommodation of a screen reader." > > But, we won't have to go that far because I'm going to pass the MPRE and > the MBE whatever accommodations they throw at me and get out there and > advocate for equal treatment under the law. > > This was kind of fun. > > > Robert D. Dittman > Student Attorney > St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) > 2507 N.W. 36th Street > San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 > Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 > Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail > and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:34 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > Please read the opinion attached > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:50 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> What are the general facts of Stephanie's case? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> What about Stephanie's Case? RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dittman, Robert" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some >>> clarity of the argument is in order. >>> >>> The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the >>> LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school. This is not true as I and >>> many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT. Was it easy, >>> nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a >>> separate issue from the exam itself. >>> >>> I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the >>> accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. >>> >>> But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should >>> not be able to bring their concerns before the court. >>> >>> I do have some questions. >>> >>> First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that >>> they >>> were "top tier". Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? >>> Was it close, within a point or two? How did the plaintiff do on the >>> questions that are not the puzzles? Much of the exam is perfectly >>> understandable by a blind person. Perhaps there is another reason why >>> they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed >>> to enquiry? >>> >>> Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my >>> school and others. I was accepted into my school of choice on a >>> provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full >>> admittance. Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under >>> such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they >>> had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, >>> and even sat in on a class or two and met with students, professors, and >>> other staff so that when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was >>> remembered. However, given all this it was very hard for me and >>> countless others to get into law school. The selection committees look >>> at >>> the whole person so in the words of one professor, "There has to be >>> something that says to us, you belong in the profession of law." What >>> did the rest of this person's package look like? >>> >>> >>> So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely >>> prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to >>> enter. I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is >>> for the court to rule upon. I am saying that placing all of the blame at >>> the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. >>> >>> With respect, >>> >>> >>> Robert D. Dittman >>> Student Attorney >>> St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil >>> Clinic) >>> 2507 N.W. 36th Street >>> San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 >>> Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 >>> Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu >>> >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any >>> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may >>> contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized >>> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not >>> the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail >>> and destroy all copies of the original message. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these >>> United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider >>> becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame >>> discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, >>> is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take >>> them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT >>> will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>>> I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the >>>> LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. >>>> Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having >>>> accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate >>>> material on it. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Michael. >>>>>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>>>>> into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>>>>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>>>>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>>>>> Good luck >>>>>> Beth Taurasi >>>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Greetings! all: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>>>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>>>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>>>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>>>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>>>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>>>>> does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>>>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>>>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>>>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>>>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>>>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>>>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>>>>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >>>>> oose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks >>>> andefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu From Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov Thu Jun 23 11:55:01 2011 From: Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov (Norman, Gary C. (CMS/OSORA)) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 07:55:01 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] (no subject) Message-ID: <5F7E6855B3549A4096D6B30DCADC2D045B4470F992@PL-EMSMB4.ees.hhs.gov> Greetings: At the forthcoming 2011 A.C.B. convention, training on West Law will be provided. Training will be provided on 11 July in a suite commencing at 9:30 A.M. The process for scheduling individual sessions is now commencing. So if people want a session, please transmit an e-mail to the point of contact for the sessions, Mr. Jeff Thom, Esq. at jsthom at comcast.net or telephone (916) 995-3967 with two requested time slots. Thanks to West Law for its collaboration with lawyers with disabilities, i.e. they have provided training under the auspices of the N.F.B. and they will provide training at the convention of A.C.B. Joshua L. Friedman, Esq. M.B.A. and I recently led a symposium in which West Law and Lexis were good and strong partners. Sincerely, Gary C. Norman, L.L.M. From amatney at hf-law.com Thu Jun 23 12:57:38 2011 From: amatney at hf-law.com (Angela Matney) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 08:57:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: In-Reply-To: <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E1002F1@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> References: <6A431757-A3D7-4B3C-8E09-A584EF2674C0@gmail.com><92D4A1EF7DD5407EAB067ECE4DF360E8@hometwxakonvzn><2F78B13FEDA340C8950F3AFDA85A0285@hometwxakonvzn><687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E0FA6DB@EXCH2.stmarytx.edu><687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E100226@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> <687DEBB12226C246A2070B791A47BD4E0E1002F1@EXCH1.stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <9E93687A9231064FAD3BBDD80BE19E2B063C2A69@hfexch1.hirschlerfleischer.com> I didn't use Kaplan for LSAT review, but I used them to supplement my Bar/Bri bar review course, and they were excellent. The web site for their practice test questions was accessible, and they responded quickly to my request for materials in an alternate format. For the LSAT, I used the books produced by the Law School Admission Council that contain actual LSAT's. Some of these are available on Bookshare, I think. But if you are considering a review course, I would recommend Kaplan based on my experience. If you receive VR services, it is possible that they could fund the course. Best, Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dittman, Robert Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 9:25 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: I used a LSAT review course through my undergrad school. It was about $500, but Kaplan has done wonders for me while in law school so would trust them to deliver. Good luck. Robert D. Dittman Student Attorney St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) 2507 N.W. 36th Street San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:12 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: What do others of you think of this opinion? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Fry" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: Hi Mike, I highly recommend that you take the Kaplan LSAT review course. You need to study your butt off for the LSAT. Take the review course and do all the practice exams. The review course is about $1,000. In my opinion, well worth it. Talk to your undergraduate schools career services about options for paying for the LSAT and LSAT review course. Don't let the NPR story get you down. The reality is that nearly everyone on this list is blind and took the LSAT and is a practicing attorney. I notice that sometimes NPR sensationalizing stories. Hi Beth, How do you use your iphone while being visually impaired? I ask because I want an iphone but am under the impression they don't work well for the visually impaired. On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Dittman, Robert wrote: > Hi RJ, > > I read the opinion, and I think the key holding is that the learned > Justices said that it doesn't matter the commendations of other cases, > that the key point is what works for the individuals who are taking the > exam. > > Take my personal situation. I am getting ready to take the MPRE this > August 5th. I wrote a letter requesting the use of JAWS as when I was in > primary school and high school, my amount of vision was such that I could > read large print. I learned Braille after going completely blind at > eighteen years of age but never used it as my primary form of literacy. I > requested that if JAWS would not be permitted, I would take the exam in > Braille but also requested triple time so that I would be able to slowly > painstakingly read each question to understand it. I told them that JAWS > was my first choice, but as a second choice I was willing to take the exam > in Braille and as a third and final choice, in an audio format. > > They granted my request to take the exam in Braille with triple time. So, > we both gave a little. > At this point your most likely asking, "Why give them an option?" Because > if I take the exam in Braille and fail it, which I do not believe I will > do, or take the Exam using audio and also fail it, my argument, if I were > to sue, will be strengthened. After jumping through all these hoops, I am > better able to show for me as an individual JAWS would be the most > accessible option and thus the opinion of the ninth circuit is very > persuasive. > > As a lawyer, even a student one, whenever I walk into court I must have > the strongest arguments supporting my client's position, and be able to > present evidence supporting those arguments. If I were to request JAWS, > then sue after being denied without trying the other formats, then I risk > this situation. > > Lawyer for NCBE "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had Braille > education in the past." > My response must be "Yes" > NCBE Lawyer" Then why did you not attempt the exam in Braille?" > My response "Because I am unsure if I have the Braille skills to complete > the exam in the time given." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you did not attempt to take the exam in Braille so > you still do not know if your skills would have enabled you to complete > the exam in Braille." > My response would have to be "No, I do not know if I do in fact have the > skills." > Or, > NCBE Lawyer, "Mr. Dittman Did you explain to the NCBE why the formats of > Audio, Reader, Braille, and other factors such as extended time would not > work for you?" > My response "yes in a letter." > NCBE Lawyer, "And yet you are unwilling to try them?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE lawyer, "So, you truly do not know if one of the offered forms of > accommodation would have been adequate for you to complete the exam." > My response would have to be "No, having not taken the exam in those > offered formats I do not know if they would have worked." > > NCBE "Your honor, this case is one in which the plaintiff was unwilling to > accommodate the concerns of the NCBE as they contend that the MPRE and MBE > are exams that are based on paper and completed with a pencil. The > Plaintiff would like this court to grant him the ability to greatly > deviate from the normal administration of the exam by using a personal > computer without trying the proffered forms of accommodation which may > have worked. The ninth Circuit held that it is the accommodations that > work for the individual that concern us in these types of cases, and yet > Mr. Dittman's suit cannot answer if these other forms of accommodations > would or would have not worked as he failed to give them a chance. > > Now, because of the rout I have taken by given the NCBE a little wiggle > room or more to the point by negotiating with them, the interaction can be > this. > > NCBE Counsel, "Mr. Dittman is it not true that you have had some Braille > education in the past?" > My response "Yes." > NCBE Counsel "And yet you still maintain that a screen reader is the only > form of accommodation?" > My response "Yes" > NCBE Counsel "Will you please explain to the court why you believe this?" > My response "I have taken the exam using extended time, in Braille, and by > audio formats. Even despite using all of these accommodations I was unable > to adequately understand the call of each question in the time allotted. I > would submit to this court that I have been completely fair to the NCBE in > working with them to address their concerns. I only ask that they now be > made to understand that by the evidence I have presented that the screen > reader is the only method that will truly provide me with an equal level > field of access. Accommodations are in place to provide the person > requesting them an even chance to complete the task as others without the > disability. I have shown that I am more than willing to try the offered > accommodations, and now ask the court's support in ordering the NCBE to > try my requested form of accommodations. The ninth Circuit held that it is > the accommodations that work for the individual that concern us in these > types of cases, and given that I have tried all the other offered forms of > accommodations and yet still have been unable to pass the exam, then the > only just and right remedy left for us is for this court to order the NCBE > to grant my requested form of accommodation of a screen reader." > > But, we won't have to go that far because I'm going to pass the MPRE and > the MBE whatever accommodations they throw at me and get out there and > advocate for equal treatment under the law. > > This was kind of fun. > > > Robert D. Dittman > Student Attorney > St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil Clinic) > 2507 N.W. 36th Street > San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 > Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 > Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail > and destroy all copies of the original message. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of RJ Sandefur > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:34 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > Please read the opinion attached > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:50 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: > > >> What are the general facts of Stephanie's case? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "RJ Sandefur" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 3:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >> >> >>> What about Stephanie's Case? RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dittman, Robert" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I am responding to the LSAT issue a little late, but I do think some >>> clarity of the argument is in order. >>> >>> The law suit says that it is impossible for a blind person to "take" the >>> LSAT and therefore cannot get into law school. This is not true as I and >>> many others who are completely blind have taken the LSAT. Was it easy, >>> nope, were the accommodations what I requested, Nope, but that is a >>> separate issue from the exam itself. >>> >>> I believe the LSAT is a valued exam, and that dealing with the >>> accommodations given for the exam are the core of the issue at hand. >>> >>> But, I did not write the complaint nor will I say that a person should >>> not be able to bring their concerns before the court. >>> >>> I do have some questions. >>> >>> First the plaintiff said they applied to three law schools, and that >>> they >>> were "top tier". Well, what score did the plaintiff get on their LSAT? >>> Was it close, within a point or two? How did the plaintiff do on the >>> questions that are not the puzzles? Much of the exam is perfectly >>> understandable by a blind person. Perhaps there is another reason why >>> they were not accepted. Isn't the reasons for a lack of admission closed >>> to enquiry? >>> >>> Secondly why only three law schools? When I applied I applied to my >>> school and others. I was accepted into my school of choice on a >>> provisional program and upon completion of that program gained full >>> admittance. Did the plaintiff receive an offer to enter the school under >>> such a program? Did the plaintiff make it known to the school that they >>> had the desire to apply? When I applied I made sure they knew my name, >>> and even sat in on a class or two and met with students, professors, and >>> other staff so that when my application hit their desk, I am sure I was >>> remembered. However, given all this it was very hard for me and >>> countless others to get into law school. The selection committees look >>> at >>> the whole person so in the words of one professor, "There has to be >>> something that says to us, you belong in the profession of law." What >>> did the rest of this person's package look like? >>> >>> >>> So, In my humble opinion, the test itself isn't bad and most likely >>> prevents people from entering a program that they are ill-equipped to >>> enter. I am not saying that in this issue that is what happened, that is >>> for the court to rule upon. I am saying that placing all of the blame at >>> the feet of the NCBE or the LSAC, or the ABA isn't very fair either. >>> >>> With respect, >>> >>> >>> Robert D. Dittman >>> Student Attorney >>> St. Mary's University, Center for Legal and Social Justice (Civil >>> Clinic) >>> 2507 N.W. 36th Street >>> San Antonio, TX 78228-3918 >>> Phone: (210) 431-5760 fax: (210) 431-5700 >>> Email: rdittman at mail.stmarytx.edu >>> >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any >>> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may >>> contain confidential or proprietary information. Any unauthorized >>> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not >>> the intended recipient, immediately contact the sender by reply e-mail >>> and destroy all copies of the original message. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of RJ Sandefur >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:11 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> I suspect Stephanie's case will be heard by the supreme court of these >>> United States, and she will prevail! Beth, Maybe you should consider >>> becoming a lawyer, because their many other lawyers who've overcame >>> discrimination, and are practicing law Today! The least you can do Beth, >>> is Ask some one on this list what prerecs you'd have to take, then take >>> them, then mabe by the time you're ready to inter law school, the LSAT >>> will be accessible to us as blind people! RJ >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 4:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>> >>> >>>> I'm not trying to discourage, but the fact and reality is that the >>>> LSAT is what it is. It's worse than having to do quant comps. >>>> Remember those things on the SAT? The only difference is that having >>>> accommodations on this test is flagged as though it had inappropriate >>>> material on it. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jun 19, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "RJ Sandefur" >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Beth, You should not discorage him from taking the LSAT! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:16 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Concerning the LSAT: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Michael. >>>>>> Read the NPR story on the LSAT student applicant who couldn't get >>>>>> into law school. You might want to give this LSAT stuff a second >>>>>> look before you take it, and be sure the Canadian Bar accepts >>>>>> accommodated tests without a red flag. >>>>>> Good luck >>>>>> Beth Taurasi >>>>>> Sent from my iPod >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Michael McKay >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Greetings! all: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My name is Michael McKay. I live in canada, and am blind. I look >>>>>>> forword to participating in this discussion group as much as I am >>>>>>> able, and also contributing as well. I have applied to the >>>>>>> University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law, at Ludlow Hall on UNB >>>>>>> Fredericton New Brunswick's Campus. I was informed by the admission >>>>>>> office that there is an enterence exam called an LSAT, that one >>>>>>> does online. I at this present time do not have access to a Credit >>>>>>> Card, so I am wondering if there is another way to pay the cost of >>>>>>> the exam. I need to have all the pre-enterence stuff completed no >>>>>>> later then the end of March 2012. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> *Michael G. McKay >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> *70 Grove Crescent,* >>>>>>> *Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.* >>>>>>> *Canada. P6B 5V4* >>>>>>> E-Mail: mgmckay1963 at gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjac >>>>>> ksandefur%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/thebluesisl >>>>> oose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacks >>>> andefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40hf-law.com Hirschler Fleischer, A Professional Corporation Confidentiality Note: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by returning it to the sender and delete this copy from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to Treasury Department Circular 230, tax advice contained in this communication and any attachments are not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code, nor may any such tax advice be used to promote, market or recommend to any person any transaction or matter that is the subject of this communication and any attachments. From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 17:19:45 2011 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 18:19:45 +0100 Subject: [blindlaw] US Law Books Message-ID: Dear Marina, Thanks very much. I'm interested in federal law, constitutional law, insurance law and administrative law books. Thanks very much for the recommendations. Obviously if any of these are available online, through e.g. westlaw or lexis sites etc. that'd be great. Best, Ger From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Thu Jun 23 20:20:31 2011 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:20:31 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> They may be late, but they've done a pretty impressive job from what I've seen. Microsoft has done very little as far as building in accessibility. The Iphone and Ipad are fantastic. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 6:23 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? How usable is a Mac with a screen reader? Isn't Apple a little late to the party, on the issue of accessibility? It took a Court case to force Apple to make the Ipod accessible. I suppose, better late than never. Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 www.emplmntattorney.com Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:01 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I want to try your MAC, Patty! See you at the blind lawyers' meeting. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Patti Gregory Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 6:39 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I will have my mmac at convention. Do you want to try it? Patti S. Gregory-Chang NFB, Scholarship Comm. Chair Sent from my iPhone On Jun 19, 2011, at 5:02 PM, "William Burley, III" wrote: > Hi Patti. I think my general accessibility issues is just wanting to > find something that works consistently and I'm having more and more > consistent trouble with Jaws. I'm not generally sure what to ask > other than what the other gentleman asked as far as applications and > the useability when working > in an industry that is heavily Windows based. > > Thanks for any info. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access > issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Burley, III" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > >> Hello all! >> >> >> >> Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly >> switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws >> and accessibility. >> >> >> >> If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons >> to using this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you >> make that work? >> What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so >> many others using Windows products? >> >> >> >> Thanks for any information! >> >> >> >> >> >> William Burley, III >> >> (713) 614-3322 >> >> William.burley3 at gmail.com >> >> >> >> Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! >> >> Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more >> details. >> >> >> >> Need better internet service for cheaper? >> >> Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up >> TODAY! >> >> >> >> Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 > gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%4 0ed.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40emplmnta ttorney.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Thu Jun 23 20:20:31 2011 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:20:31 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <7139F969-95BD-40DD-A299-24ECDDF87E32@sbcglobal.net> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <7139F969-95BD-40DD-A299-24ECDDF87E32@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <000001cc31e3$00c96e80$025c4b80$@wiennergould.com> Here here! ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 6:51 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? On the contrary; Apple is the FIRST company to include a superbly functional screenreader as part of its OS. While some may pay an extra $1200 for Jaws before being able to use their newly purchased computer, or must apply to an agency for it, Apple's Macintosh products--and now all of their newer I-devices--come ready to speak right out of the box. Apple is, in my opinion, the party. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com From sbg at sbgaal.com Thu Jun 23 20:30:47 2011 From: sbg at sbgaal.com (Shannon Geihsler) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 15:30:47 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> Message-ID: Can you please tell me where I can get easy to acess and read instructions on how to use voice over on the I-phone and I-pad? Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, TX 79401 Phone: 763-3999 Fax: 749-3752 This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel K. Beitz Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:21 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? They may be late, but they've done a pretty impressive job from what I've seen. Microsoft has done very little as far as building in accessibility. The Iphone and Ipad are fantastic. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI  48307 Phone:  (248) 841-9405 Fax:  (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited.  Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 6:23 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? How usable is a Mac with a screen reader? Isn't Apple a little late to the party, on the issue of accessibility? It took a Court case to force Apple to make the Ipod accessible. I suppose, better late than never. Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 www.emplmntattorney.com Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:01 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I want to try your MAC, Patty! See you at the blind lawyers' meeting. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Patti Gregory Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 6:39 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I will have my mmac at convention. Do you want to try it? Patti S. Gregory-Chang NFB, Scholarship Comm. Chair Sent from my iPhone On Jun 19, 2011, at 5:02 PM, "William Burley, III" wrote: > Hi Patti. I think my general accessibility issues is just wanting to > find something that works consistently and I'm having more and more > consistent trouble with Jaws. I'm not generally sure what to ask > other than what the other gentleman asked as far as applications and > the useability when working > in an industry that is heavily Windows based. > > Thanks for any info. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang > Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access > issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Burley, III" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > >> Hello all! >> >> >> >> Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering possibly >> switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws >> and accessibility. >> >> >> >> If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons >> to using this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you >> make that work? >> What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so >> many others using Windows products? >> >> >> >> Thanks for any information! >> >> >> >> >> >> William Burley, III >> >> (713) 614-3322 >> >> William.burley3 at gmail.com >> >> >> >> Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, L.L.C.! >> >> Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more >> details. >> >> >> >> Need better internet service for cheaper? >> >> Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up >> TODAY! >> >> >> >> Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 > gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%4 0ed.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40emplmnta ttorney.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo uld.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 23 20:35:24 2011 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:35:24 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> Message-ID: Microsoft has done nothing to include accessibility in its OS because many blind people spoke up, many of them FROM the NFB, and said, "No, no, don't fool with Jaws, let the experts handle it, we don't want some non-blindness-related company building our screen readers." So, I M H O, in this instance, we reap what we sow. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 23 20:36:19 2011 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:36:19 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> Message-ID: <375FDE6C-5078-41C8-A776-FBB34C04AE6A@sbcglobal.net> Join the VIPhone Google group for the best info. also, try www.icanworkthisthing.com or www.macessibility.com for starters. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From dandrews at visi.com Thu Jun 23 20:57:15 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 15:57:15 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> Message-ID: <4E03A8AB.7070104@visi.com> Mark: Not to seem argumentative, but I think your statement doesn't accurately state what has and is going on. It is not true that Microsoft includes no accessibility in its OS. It is true to say that Microsoft includes no full-featured screen reader or other technology in Windows. Some years ago disabled customers, and assistive technology companies urged Microsoft to leave AT up to the experts, and they agreed. That was about 15 years ago though, and people might not take the same position today. At the time it seemed like the correct recommendation. Microsoft in fact has more people working on accessibility then any other tech company. They are not perfect, far from it, but still do a lot to make many of their applications accessible to blind and other persons. I have heard rumors that Narrator, and other applications will be substantially improved in Windows 9, but at this point it is just a rumor I have heard, and I have no idea if it is true or not. I would guess that it is though, and that Apple and its efforts are pressuring Microsoft. Apple has done a good job and should be applauded. However, there is no competition in the Apple arena for assistive technology, and there likely will never be any. There is competition in Windows, and in general it brings out more features and capabilities and faster improvements. There isn't a right or wrong answer -- we just have to make the best of each situation. Dave p.s. Do you really want to be completely reliant on Microsoft for your screen reader? If they come out with a free, full-featured competitor, it is likely to kill off most, if not all the competition! On 6/23/2011 3:35 PM, Mark BurningHawk wrote: > Microsoft has done nothing to include accessibility in its OS because many blind people spoke up, many of them FROM the NFB, and said, "No, no, don't fool with Jaws, let the experts handle it, we don't want some non-blindness-related company building our screen readers." So, I M H O, in this instance, we reap what we sow. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 23 21:03:04 2011 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:03:04 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <4E03A8AB.7070104@visi.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> <4E03A8AB.7070104@visi.com> Message-ID: <57770900-16A7-40E7-A20A-9FB71449579A@sbcglobal.net> You're applying capitalist values to a poverty-ridden community. In a fair market, you're right; more competition is better, drives down the price, brings out more innovations. The blind are not a fair market. As long as universal access is not followed, the blind will always be dependent--on the agencies, on the workplaces, on whomever can afford Jaws or its like. Apple is practicing universal access, or at least they're asymptotically close to it. MS is not. Making software accessible is like building a gas tank into a car and saying you help get great mileage. As long as blind people have to pay more for a computer to use it than a sighted person, there is room for improvement. If MS comes out with the equivalent of VoiceOver, following universal access guidelines, then anything else is just a cop-out. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Thu Jun 23 21:04:01 2011 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:04:01 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <4E03A8AB.7070104@visi.com> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> <4E03A8AB.7070104@visi.com> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EE07@EVS02.central.pima.gov> This is likely something unique to where I practice (public defender in Arizona), but what would be most useful to me does not seem to be offered by any company, for either platform - a bi-lingual screen reader. (In this case, Spanish and English, but there would be other possible needs for other courts and professions, I would guess.) Has anyone heard if this will ever be a possibility? Every screen reader I have researched will do one or the other, but not both.... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 1:57 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? Mark: Not to seem argumentative, but I think your statement doesn't accurately state what has and is going on. It is not true that Microsoft includes no accessibility in its OS. It is true to say that Microsoft includes no full-featured screen reader or other technology in Windows. Some years ago disabled customers, and assistive technology companies urged Microsoft to leave AT up to the experts, and they agreed. That was about 15 years ago though, and people might not take the same position today. At the time it seemed like the correct recommendation. Microsoft in fact has more people working on accessibility then any other tech company. They are not perfect, far from it, but still do a lot to make many of their applications accessible to blind and other persons. I have heard rumors that Narrator, and other applications will be substantially improved in Windows 9, but at this point it is just a rumor I have heard, and I have no idea if it is true or not. I would guess that it is though, and that Apple and its efforts are pressuring Microsoft. Apple has done a good job and should be applauded. However, there is no competition in the Apple arena for assistive technology, and there likely will never be any. There is competition in Windows, and in general it brings out more features and capabilities and faster improvements. There isn't a right or wrong answer -- we just have to make the best of each situation. Dave p.s. Do you really want to be completely reliant on Microsoft for your screen reader? If they come out with a free, full-featured competitor, it is likely to kill off most, if not all the competition! On 6/23/2011 3:35 PM, Mark BurningHawk wrote: > Microsoft has done nothing to include accessibility in its OS because many blind people spoke up, many of them FROM the NFB, and said, "No, no, don't fool with Jaws, let the experts handle it, we don't want some non-blindness-related company building our screen readers." So, I M H O, in this instance, we reap what we sow. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 23 21:31:54 2011 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:31:54 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EE07@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> <4E03A8AB.7070104@visi.com> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EE07@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <9136D2C6-7191-40C1-82E2-739619D3B64D@sbcglobal.net> I believe that, right now with Snow Leopard and certainly with Lion, you can get VoiceOver in Spanish, English and a few other languages. Having both a Spanish and English version running at the same time might be different, but you should be able to switch languages. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Thu Jun 23 21:38:39 2011 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:38:39 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <9136D2C6-7191-40C1-82E2-739619D3B64D@sbcglobal.net> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> <4E03A8AB.7070104@visi.com> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EE07@EVS02.central.pima.gov> <9136D2C6-7191-40C1-82E2-739619D3B64D@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EE09@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Some day (smile)! Out here, we all grew up speaking and typing Spanglish, regardless of family background - guess that's why I want to hear the same from my computer. But I will try to see if I can toggle back and forth on what I currently have WinZoom) and will be getting (JAWS) at some point. I need Spanish (only, no bi-lingual) mostly for client letters, but it is a bit disturbing to hear the horrendous mispronunciations of names and places in pleadings that are other-wise in English. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 2:32 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? I believe that, right now with Snow Leopard and certainly with Lion, you can get VoiceOver in Spanish, English and a few other languages. Having both a Spanish and English version running at the same time might be different, but you should be able to switch languages. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ Namaste! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From lists at zufelt.ca Thu Jun 23 21:46:15 2011 From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 17:46:15 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EE09@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> <4E03A8AB.7070104@visi.com> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EE07@EVS02.central.pima.gov> <9136D2C6-7191-40C1-82E2-739619D3B64D@sbcglobal.net> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EE09@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: Good evening, The problem is that a screen-reader doesn't know which parts of a document are in which language. The exception to this are documents structured using technologies like html. In html it is possible to explicitly declare the language of a part of the document.

some text in french

Some text in spanish

It really isn't the fault of assistive technology if it cannot automatically detect the language of a document when the language is not explicitly declared. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-06-23, at 5:38 PM, Susan Kelly wrote: > Some day (smile)! Out here, we all grew up speaking and typing > Spanglish, regardless of family background - guess that's why I want to > hear the same from my computer. But I will try to see if I can toggle > back and forth on what I currently have WinZoom) and will be getting > (JAWS) at some point. I need Spanish (only, no bi-lingual) mostly for > client letters, but it is a bit disturbing to hear the horrendous > mispronunciations of names and places in pleadings that are other-wise > in English. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 2:32 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I believe that, right now with Snow Leopard and certainly with Lion, you > can get VoiceOver in Spanish, English and a few other languages. Having > both a Spanish and English version running at the same time might be > different, but you should be able to switch languages. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > Namaste! > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 > pima.gov > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lists%40zufelt.ca From dravant at ameritech.net Thu Jun 23 22:48:39 2011 From: dravant at ameritech.net (Denise Avant) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 17:48:39 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? In-Reply-To: References: <4dfd79f3.6a4eec0a.1db4.203f@mx.google.com><401C74C4484940A383C7841AE633E075@D3J75Z91><4dfe721f.050d970a.7b36.2b75@mx.google.com> <000101cc31e3$00f44f10$02dced30$@wiennergould.com> Message-ID: <628B9447-B095-4838-8E45-CA727C03A8CB@ameritech.net> hi, you might want to try looking for the web page from vision australia. initially, the organization did a lot of small tutorials on the iphone, which is very similar to the ipad. they now do smaller tutorials on voiceover and the mac. absent that, you may wish to go to blindcooltech.com where you will find all kinds of voiceovr apple related information. On Jun 23, 2011, at 3:30 PM, Shannon Geihsler wrote: > Can you please tell me where I can get easy to acess and read instructions > on how to use voice over on the I-phone and I-pad? > > Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC > 1001 Main St., Suite 803 > Lubbock, TX 79401 > Phone: 763-3999 > Fax: 749-3752 > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or > attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express > permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Daniel K. Beitz > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:21 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > They may be late, but they've done a pretty impressive job from what I've > seen. Microsoft has done very little as far as building in accessibility. > The Iphone and Ipad are fantastic. > > ------------------------------------------- > Daniel K. Beitz > Wienner & Gould, P.C. > 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 > Rochester, MI 48307 > Phone: (248) 841-9405 > Fax: (248) 652-2729 > dbeitz at wiennergould.com > This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages > attached > to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If > you are > not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this > email > to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, > copying, > or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or > attached to > this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in > error, > please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by > telephoning > us at (248) 841-9400. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 6:23 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > How usable is a Mac with a screen reader? Isn't Apple a little late to the > party, on the issue of accessibility? It took a Court case to force Apple to > make the Ipod accessible. I suppose, better late than never. > > > Respectfully, > > > > Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > > Newport Beach, California 92660 > > T: (949) 752-0101 > > F: (949) 257-4756 > > M: (949) 466-7238 > > www.emplmntattorney.com > > Follow me on Twitter: EmplmntAttorney > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:01 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I want to try your MAC, Patty! See you at the blind lawyers' meeting. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Patti Gregory > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 6:39 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? > > I will have my mmac at convention. Do you want to try it? > > Patti S. Gregory-Chang > NFB, Scholarship Comm. Chair > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 19, 2011, at 5:02 PM, "William Burley, III" > wrote: > >> Hi Patti. I think my general accessibility issues is just wanting to >> find something that works consistently and I'm having more and more >> consistent trouble with Jaws. I'm not generally sure what to ask >> other than what the other gentleman asked as far as applications and >> the useability when > working >> in an industry that is heavily Windows based. >> >> Thanks for any info. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang >> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 10:46 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? >> >> I use a MAC, but I don't think that Mac will solve your general access >> issues. You can contact me offline at pattichang at att.net. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "William Burley, III" >> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 11:24 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Mac Users Out There? >> >> >>> Hello all! >>> >>> >>> >>> Are there any Mac users out there in the group? I am considering > possibly >>> switching from Windows because I'm having lots of issues with jaws >>> and accessibility. >>> >>> >>> >>> If there are Mac users out there, can you give me the Pros and Cons >>> to using this in a legal world full of Windows users? How do you >>> make that work? >>> What apps do you use to make your legal practice effective with so >>> many others using Windows products? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for any information! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> William Burley, III >>> >>> (713) 614-3322 >>> >>> William.burley3 at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Get extra cash by referring someone to Burley-wilson & associates, > L.L.C.! >>> >>> Visit www.burley-wilson.com or e-mail info at burley-wilson.com for more >>> details. >>> >>> >>> >>> Need better internet service for cheaper? >>> >>> Visit www.wburley3.vodaplex.com or call (713) 614-3322 to get set up >>> TODAY! >>> >>> >>> >>> Follow me on Facebook at www.facebook.com/wburley3 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40 >> gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n > et > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%4 > 0ed.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40emplmnta > ttorney.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergo > uld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sbg%40sbgaal.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dravant%40ameritech.net From dricken at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 08:17:58 2011 From: dricken at gmail.com (Kendrick Kennedy) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 03:17:58 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Multi-performance Test Message-ID: Hi All, I am currently preparing for the MS Bar Exam. I am reviewing the BarBri video on the multi performance test (MPT). I will be typing and reading the information on a computer. Does anyone know or remember if the case files, task memos and library information is separated into manageable files or is the MPT problem combined into one document on the actual exam? If the MPT is in one document did the pages line up for you to search the pages as BarBri stated you should do to maximize time to complete the MPT assignment? Any information on this will be greatly appreciated. -- *Best Regards,* * * *Kendrick R. Kennedy, J.D. * * * From AZNOR99 at aol.com Fri Jun 24 11:08:45 2011 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 07:08:45 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Multi-performance Test Message-ID: <379a7.2ab30ca.3b35ca3d@aol.com> Hi, I took the Bar Exam several years ago (my do I feel old all of a sudden) and at that time the MPT was split into manageable files. The cases were one set, the assignment memo another, and the Library a third including the statutes, etc. I'd suggest you contact your State Bar Reasonable Accommodation Coordinator and ask them how many files will be included in that portion of the exam. They may be able to provide you the documents in the way you need them most. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 6/24/2011 4:19:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dricken at gmail.com writes: Hi All, I am currently preparing for the MS Bar Exam. I am reviewing the BarBri video on the multi performance test (MPT). I will be typing and reading the information on a computer. Does anyone know or remember if the case files, task memos and library information is separated into manageable files or is the MPT problem combined into one document on the actual exam? If the MPT is in one document did the pages line up for you to search the pages as BarBri stated you should do to maximize time to complete the MPT assignment? Any information on this will be greatly appreciated. -- *Best Regards,* * * *Kendrick R. Kennedy, J.D. * * * _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 24 12:06:35 2011 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 05:06:35 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action Message-ID: <00a701cc3267$2a6df010$6b01a8c0@server> http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/us_news_likely_to_change_law_school_ranking_methodology/? US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action Posted Jun 20, 2011 10:17 AM CDT By Mark Hansen U.S. News & World Report will probably change its law school ranking methodology to reflect the new and more detailed job placement information the ABA's law school accrediting arm has conditionally agreed to start collecting. If more detailed information on the types and status of legal jobs becomes available, U.S. News will collect it, publish it and-where applicable-factor it in to its annual Best Law School rankings, Bob Morse, the magazine's director of data research, wrote at Morse Code. Once the information is available, the magazine will use its own law school statistical surveys this fall to collect and eventually publish the complete set of more detailed jobs and employment data from each law school for last year's graduates, Morse said. "When we gather this richer data set, we will be able to make a more exact determination of how our ranking methodology will change," he wrote. This month, the council of the ABA's Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar, the accrediting body for U.S. law schools, conditionally approved changes (PDF posted by Law School Transparency) to its law school questionnaire requiring law schools to report more detailed post-graduate employment information. The changes hinge on a formal agreement with the National Association for Law Placement, which collects the information, to turn the data over to the ABA. Under the revised questionnaire, law schools will be required to report how many graduates are employed in jobs requiring a law degree; how many are in jobs in which a law degree is preferred; how many are in another professional or nonprofessional job; and how many are in jobs whose type is unknown. The data is broken down by job type, including law firms of various sizes; businesses and industry; government; public interest; clerkship; academia and unknown. Law schools also must disclose how many graduates are working in full-time or part-time jobs, whether those jobs are short-term or long-term and how many of them are funded by the school from which the job-holder graduated. Schools must also report how many graduates are unemployed or pursuing a graduate degree, and how many of the unemployed are looking or not looking for a job. They also must identify the top three states in which their graduates are employed, the number of graduates working in each state and the number of graduates working overseas. ABA Journal.com Weekly newsletter From Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov Fri Jun 24 12:10:29 2011 From: Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov (Norman, Gary C. (CMS/OSORA)) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 08:10:29 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] [blind law] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action In-Reply-To: <00a701cc3267$2a6df010$6b01a8c0@server> References: <00a701cc3267$2a6df010$6b01a8c0@server> Message-ID: <5F7E6855B3549A4096D6B30DCADC2D045B44782113@PL-EMSMB4.ees.hhs.gov> Since the ABA has "provisionally approved" these changes, it might be worthwhile to argue that the survey should also endeavor to capture employment related data about law students with disabilities and lawyers with disabilities. Sincerely, Gary -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Clark Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 8:07 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/us_news_likely_to_change_law_school_ranking_methodology/? US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action Posted Jun 20, 2011 10:17 AM CDT By Mark Hansen U.S. News & World Report will probably change its law school ranking methodology to reflect the new and more detailed job placement information the ABA's law school accrediting arm has conditionally agreed to start collecting. If more detailed information on the types and status of legal jobs becomes available, U.S. News will collect it, publish it and-where applicable-factor it in to its annual Best Law School rankings, Bob Morse, the magazine's director of data research, wrote at Morse Code. Once the information is available, the magazine will use its own law school statistical surveys this fall to collect and eventually publish the complete set of more detailed jobs and employment data from each law school for last year's graduates, Morse said. "When we gather this richer data set, we will be able to make a more exact determination of how our ranking methodology will change," he wrote. This month, the council of the ABA's Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar, the accrediting body for U.S. law schools, conditionally approved changes (PDF posted by Law School Transparency) to its law school questionnaire requiring law schools to report more detailed post-graduate employment information. The changes hinge on a formal agreement with the National Association for Law Placement, which collects the information, to turn the data over to the ABA. Under the revised questionnaire, law schools will be required to report how many graduates are employed in jobs requiring a law degree; how many are in jobs in which a law degree is preferred; how many are in another professional or nonprofessional job; and how many are in jobs whose type is unknown. The data is broken down by job type, including law firms of various sizes; businesses and industry; government; public interest; clerkship; academia and unknown. Law schools also must disclose how many graduates are working in full-time or part-time jobs, whether those jobs are short-term or long-term and how many of them are funded by the school from which the job-holder graduated. Schools must also report how many graduates are unemployed or pursuing a graduate degree, and how many of the unemployed are looking or not looking for a job. They also must identify the top three states in which their graduates are employed, the number of graduates working in each state and the number of graduates working overseas. ABA Journal.com Weekly newsletter _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gary.norman%40cms.hhs.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Jun 24 15:48:39 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 10:48:39 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DOJ CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES SECTION SPECIAL LEGAL COUNSEL, GS-15, vacancy announcement Message-ID: Link: http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/oarmvacspeciallitcoun.htm Text: UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES SECTION SPECIAL LEGAL COUNSEL, GS-15 [X] About the Office: The U.S. Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division is seeking one or more experienced attorneys for the position of Special Legal Counsel (SLC) in the Educational Opportunities Section (EOS) in Washington, D.C. The Division is primarily responsible for enforcing federal statutes, regulations and executive orders that prohibit, among other things, unlawful discrimination in voting, education, employment, housing, police services, public accommodations and facilities, and federally funded and conducted programs. EOS enforces federal statutes which prohibit public school officials from engaging in discriminatory practices. These statutes include Title IV of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, national origin, sex, and religion in public schools; the Equal Educational Opportunities Act of 1974, which, among other things, requires state education agencies and school districts to ensure that appropriate services are provided to limited English proficient students; and Titles II and III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability in public and private educational institutions. In addition, EOS has certain enforcement responsibilities for Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Title IX of the Education Amendments Act of 1972, and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. The Section may initiate litigation, intervene or serve as amicus in private suits that allege violations of education-related anti-discrimination statutes and the Fourteenth Amendment. EOS works closely with the Department of Education (ED), including representing ED in federal court. Responsibilities and Opportunity Offered: The SLC will serve on the Section's management team and be responsible, under the supervision of the Chief, for developing and supervising investigations and litigation addressing all aspects of the Section's enforcement duties. The SLC will provide advice and assistance to other attorneys and monitor the work of less experienced attorneys to ensure that they are provided appropriate guidance and review. Together with the Chief and Deputy Chiefs, the SLC will assist in planning and selecting matters for investigation, litigation and policy guidance, and determining the strategy and tactics to be employed. The SLC will monitor developments in the areas of education law and other relevant federal law and procedure related to the work of the Section, and keep the Section informed of significant issues and developments. The SLC will assist the Section's management in developing guidance and policies concerning the Section's areas of enforcement and with commenting on proposed legislation, policy, guidance, and testimony. The SLC will also assist with the management of the Section by assuming responsibility for certain administrative and operational tasks, engaging in outreach to Section stakeholders (including representing the Section in meetings with other federal agencies and at education-related conferences and convenings.)The SLC will be expected to handle other special assignments to be made by the Chief to assist in operation of the Section. Qualifications: Required Qualifications: Applicants must possess a J.D. degree, be an active member of the bar in good standing (any jurisdiction), have a minimum of five (5) years post-J.D. substantive experience, including significant experience conducting litigation, negotiating settlements in civil rights cases, and investigating complaints of discrimination, including in the Section's enforcement areas. Applicants must demonstrate passion and commitment to the work of the Section; exceptional interpersonal, leadership, and organizational skills; superior oral and written communication skills; solid professional judgment; professional and personal integrity; be a demonstrated team player; and be able to excel in a fast-paced, highly demanding environment. Applicants must demonstrate outstanding supervisory and mentorship skills, including the ability to manage a diverse workforce. Preferred Qualifications: Experience handling discrimination and harassment cases in the education context is preferred, including: (1) experience litigating discrimination and harassment cases involving educational institutions, including handling discovery, litigation strategy, motion practice, trial preparation, and trial; (2) experience negotiating settlements in discrimination or harassment cases involving school districts; (3) experience investigating allegations of discrimination and harassment in schools, including interviewing witnesses, reviewing documents, and reviewing applicable case law to assess the merits of a case; (4) experience supervising and mentoring attorneys in the development of and preparation for litigation; (5) experience drafting regulations, guidance documents and other policy directives, including experience working with diverse coalitions on legal and/or policy initiatives, and (6) substantive knowledge of and expertise in education discrimination law. In addition, while not required, preferred candidates will have relevant civil rights experience outside of the core competencies of the Section, but within the critical responsibilities of the Division, such that the candidate could play a supporting role in the Division's initiatives. Travel: The position requires extended hours and a moderate amount of travel. Salary Information: Current salary and years of specialized experience will determine the appropriate salary level within the GS-15 range ($123,758 to $155,500 per annum). Final selection for these positions will be subject to budgetary funding constraints. Location: Washington, DC Relocation Expenses: Relocation expenses are not authorized for this position. Submission Process and Deadline Date To apply, please submit a resume, cover letter and a writing sample (a brief or comparable analytic legal exposition that is your work product) to: Diane Turner Phone: 202-514-3934 Fax: 202-514-6603 Email: crd.attyvacancies at usdoj.gov No telephone calls please. The position will remain open until filled, but applications must be submitted no later than July 1, 2011. Internet Sites: Other attorney vacancy announcements can be found at: www.usdoj.gov/oarm/attvacancies.html Department Policies: The U.S. Department of Justice is an Equal Opportunity/Reasonable Accommodation Employer. Except where otherwise provided by law, there will be no discrimination because of color, race, religion, national origin, political affiliation, marital status, disability (physical or mental), age, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, genetic information, status as a parent, membership or non-membership in an employee organization, on the basis of personal favoritism, or any non merit factor. The Department of Justice welcomes and encourages applications from persons with physical and mental disabilities. The Department is firmly committed to satisfying its affirmative obligations under the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, to ensure that persons with disabilities have every opportunity to be hired and advanced on the basis of merit within the Department of Justice. This agency provides reasonable accommodation to applicants with disabilities where appropriate. If you need a reasonable accommodation for any part of the application and hiring process, please notify the agency. Determinations on requests for reasonable accommodation will be made on a case-by-case basis. It is the policy of the Department to achieve a drug-free workplace and persons selected for employment will be required to pass a drug test which screens for illegal drug use prior to final appointment. Employment is also contingent upon the completion and satisfactory adjudication of a background investigation. Only U.S. citizens are eligible for employment with the Executive Office for Immigration Review and the United States Attorneys' Offices. Unless otherwise indicated in a particular job advertisement, non-U.S. Citizens may apply for employment with other organizations, but should be advised that appointments of non-U.S. Citizens are extremely rare; such appointments would be possible only if necessary to accomplish the Department's mission and would be subject to strict security requirements. Applicants who hold dual citizenship in the U.S. and another country will be considered on a case-by-case basis. There is no formal rating system for applying veterans' preference to attorney appointments in the excepted service; however, the Department of Justice considers veterans' preference eligibility as a positive factor in attorney hiring. Applicants eligible for veterans' preference must include that information in their cover letter or resume and attach supporting documentation (e.g., the DD 214, Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty and other supporting documentation) to their submissions. Although the "point" system is not used, per se, applicants eligible to claim 10-point preference must submit Standard Form (SF) 15, Application for 10-Point Veteran Preference, and submit the supporting documentation required for the specific type of preference claimed (visit the OPM website, www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/SF15.pdffor a copy of SF 15, which lists the types of 10-point preferences and the required supporting document(s).Applicants should note that SF 15 requires supporting documentation associated with service-connected disabilities or receipt of nonservice-connected disability pensions to be dated 1991 or later except in the case of service members submitting official statements or retirement orders from a branch of the Armed Forces showing that his or her retirement was due to a permanent service-connected disability or that he/she was transferred to the permanent disability retired list (the statement or retirement orders must indicate that the disability is 10% or more). * * * The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of information contained in this vacancy announcement. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Picture (Device Independent Bitmap) 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3513 bytes Desc: Picture (Device Independent Bitmap) 1.jpg URL: From rumpole at roadrunner.com Fri Jun 24 20:10:59 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:10:59 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. attorney posting - Kansas - Uncompensated Message-ID: * SPECIAL ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (SERVES WITHOUT COMPENSATION) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF KANSAS VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 11-KS-SAUSA-06 Applications must be received by July 22, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/sasusa-crm-vac-annwichita2011.htm Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From rumpole at roadrunner.com Sat Jun 25 12:18:02 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 08:18:02 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Attorney Posting - Oklahoma - Uncompensated Message-ID: * SPECIAL ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (UNCOMPENSATED) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF OKLAHOMA ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 11-OKW-10-S Applications must be received by July 15, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/11-okw-10-s.htm Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Jun 25 12:27:46 2011 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 08:27:46 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] [blind law] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action In-Reply-To: <5F7E6855B3549A4096D6B30DCADC2D045B44782113@PL-EMSMB4.ees.hhs.gov> References: <00a701cc3267$2a6df010$6b01a8c0@server> <5F7E6855B3549A4096D6B30DCADC2D045B44782113@PL-EMSMB4.ees.hhs.gov> Message-ID: <82D8F2AEB66749FABB2331081389DB91@StevePC> Does anyone know the percentage of blind attorneys who are currently employed? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman, Gary C. (CMS/OSORA)" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blind law] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action > Since the ABA has "provisionally approved" these changes, it might be > worthwhile to argue that the survey should also endeavor to capture > employment related data about law students with disabilities and lawyers > with disabilities. > > > > Sincerely, > Gary > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Dennis Clark > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 8:07 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking > Methodology in Wake of ABA Action > > > http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/us_news_likely_to_change_law_school_ranking_methodology/? > > US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA > Action > Posted Jun 20, 2011 10:17 AM CDT > By Mark Hansen > > U.S. News & World Report will probably change its law school ranking > methodology to reflect the new and more detailed job placement information > the ABA's law school accrediting arm has conditionally agreed to start > collecting. > If more detailed information on the types and status of legal jobs becomes > available, U.S. News will collect it, publish it and-where > applicable-factor > it in to its annual Best Law School rankings, Bob Morse, the magazine's > director of data research, wrote at Morse Code. > Once the information is available, the magazine will use its own law > school > statistical surveys this fall to collect and eventually publish the > complete > set of more detailed jobs and employment data from each law school for > last > year's graduates, Morse said. > "When we gather this richer data set, we will be able to make a more exact > determination of how our ranking methodology will change," he wrote. > This month, the council of the ABA's Section of Legal Education and > Admissions to the Bar, the accrediting body for U.S. law schools, > conditionally approved changes (PDF posted by Law School Transparency) to > its law school questionnaire requiring law schools to report more detailed > post-graduate employment information. The changes hinge on a formal > agreement with the National Association for Law Placement, which collects > the information, to turn the data over to the ABA. > Under the revised questionnaire, law schools will be required to report > how > many graduates are employed in jobs requiring a law degree; how many are > in > jobs in which a law degree is preferred; how many are in another > professional or nonprofessional job; and how many are in jobs whose type > is > unknown. The data is broken down by job type, including law firms of > various > sizes; businesses and industry; government; public interest; clerkship; > academia and unknown. > Law schools also must disclose how many graduates are working in full-time > or part-time jobs, whether those jobs are short-term or long-term and how > many of them are funded by the school from which the job-holder graduated. > Schools must also report how many graduates are unemployed or pursuing a > graduate degree, and how many of the unemployed are looking or not looking > for a job. They also must identify the top three states in which their > graduates are employed, the number of graduates working in each state and > the number of graduates working overseas. > > ABA Journal.com Weekly newsletter > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gary.norman%40cms.hhs.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.901 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3722 - Release Date: 06/23/11 14:34:00 -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.901 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3725 - Release Date: 06/25/11 02:34:00 From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Jun 27 16:54:50 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:54:50 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] [blind law] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action In-Reply-To: <82D8F2AEB66749FABB2331081389DB91@StevePC> References: <00a701cc3267$2a6df010$6b01a8c0@server> <5F7E6855B3549A4096D6B30DCADC2D045B44782113@PL-EMSMB4.ees.hhs.gov> <82D8F2AEB66749FABB2331081389DB91@StevePC> Message-ID: I do not believe that anyone has good data on the percentage of blind attorneys who are employed or even the broader category of attorneys with disabilities who are employed. We don't even have great data on how many attorneys with disabilities are employed. We, individually, of course, have our gut feelings about the question. Mine is that many blind attorneys who are employed are disproportionately in comparison with their sighted peers practicing law on behalf of governments or as solo practitioners. It could be a project of the National Association of Blind Lawyers to conduct a survey of blind attorneys through state bar associations, but even then, it may not be statistically accurate given the voluntary nature of responses. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 5:28 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blind law] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action Does anyone know the percentage of blind attorneys who are currently employed? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman, Gary C. (CMS/OSORA)" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [blind law] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA Action > Since the ABA has "provisionally approved" these changes, it might be > worthwhile to argue that the survey should also endeavor to capture > employment related data about law students with disabilities and > lawyers with disabilities. > > > > Sincerely, > Gary > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of Dennis Clark > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 8:07 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking > Methodology in Wake of ABA Action > > > http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/us_news_likely_to_change_law_school_ranking_methodology/? > > US News Likely to Change Law School Ranking Methodology in Wake of ABA > Action Posted Jun 20, 2011 10:17 AM CDT By Mark Hansen > > U.S. News & World Report will probably change its law school ranking > methodology to reflect the new and more detailed job placement > information the ABA's law school accrediting arm has conditionally > agreed to start collecting. > If more detailed information on the types and status of legal jobs > becomes available, U.S. News will collect it, publish it and-where > applicable-factor it in to its annual Best Law School rankings, Bob > Morse, the magazine's director of data research, wrote at Morse Code. > Once the information is available, the magazine will use its own law > school statistical surveys this fall to collect and eventually publish > the complete set of more detailed jobs and employment data from each > law school for last year's graduates, Morse said. > "When we gather this richer data set, we will be able to make a more > exact determination of how our ranking methodology will change," he wrote. > This month, the council of the ABA's Section of Legal Education and > Admissions to the Bar, the accrediting body for U.S. law schools, > conditionally approved changes (PDF posted by Law School Transparency) > to its law school questionnaire requiring law schools to report more > detailed post-graduate employment information. The changes hinge on a > formal agreement with the National Association for Law Placement, > which collects the information, to turn the data over to the ABA. > Under the revised questionnaire, law schools will be required to > report how many graduates are employed in jobs requiring a law degree; > how many are in jobs in which a law degree is preferred; how many are > in another professional or nonprofessional job; and how many are in > jobs whose type is unknown. The data is broken down by job type, > including law firms of various sizes; businesses and industry; > government; public interest; clerkship; academia and unknown. > Law schools also must disclose how many graduates are working in > full-time or part-time jobs, whether those jobs are short-term or > long-term and how many of them are funded by the school from which the job-holder graduated. > Schools must also report how many graduates are unemployed or pursuing > a graduate degree, and how many of the unemployed are looking or not > looking for a job. They also must identify the top three states in > which their graduates are employed, the number of graduates working in > each state and the number of graduates working overseas. > > ABA Journal.com Weekly newsletter > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gary.norman% > 40cms.hhs.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele > y%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.901 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3722 - Release Date: 06/23/11 14:34:00 From rumpole at roadrunner.com Mon Jun 27 20:03:58 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:03:58 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Office of Inspector General - WDC area Message-ID: <3A995E48D2A74F6E96837933FC61AB52@none8a46117901> * ATTORNEY-ADVISOR GS-905-14/15 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NO. OIG-2011-36 WASHINGTON DC Applications must be submitted no later than August 1, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/gs14-15attyweb.htm Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Tue Jun 28 19:41:45 2011 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] real estate stuff Message-ID: <1309290105.20799.YahooMailClassic@web112405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> This is for those of you who practice in Virginia. I'm a Federal employee and I'm thinking about doing some parttime real estate stuff to earn a little extra money. Specifically, I'm thinking of doing some closings. There's a couple of CLE's from VACLE (one on terms of closing and one on common problems and how to avoid them.) I'm also thinking about doing one on easements and other topics. Furthermore, I plan to read a couple of chapters from the VACLE book on real estate. I figure that if I like doing residential closings parttime, I'd maybe do some deed drafting. So, for those of you who do real estate, what is your advice? Should I do closings parttime? Title searches? Deed drafting? Any tips and suggestions you can give me (including any CLE or other sources to educate myself) would be very much appreciated. Thank you. Mike From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Jun 29 15:33:49 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 10:33:49 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Keyboard command to read comments in Word Message-ID: Help! can anyone on this list tell me the keyboard command to access comments embedded in a Word document? usually, I can get near the highlighted word that refers to a comment , hit the context key, and go to edit comment, and then I can read the comment. However, I am now reading a document that clearly has a comment but for which that technique is not working. any advice much appreciated. Noel Nightingale From withat at msn.com Wed Jun 29 15:44:27 2011 From: withat at msn.com (Johnston) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 08:44:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Keyboard command to read comments in Word References: Message-ID: Control + Shift + apostrophe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nightingale, Noel" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 8:33 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Keyboard command to read comments in Word > Help! can anyone on this list tell me the keyboard command to access > comments embedded in a Word document? usually, I can get near the > highlighted word that refers to a comment , hit the context key, and go to > edit comment, and then I can read the comment. However, I am now reading > a document that clearly has a comment but for which that technique is not > working. any advice much appreciated. > > Noel Nightingale > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/withat%40msn.com > From amatney at hf-law.com Wed Jun 29 15:48:37 2011 From: amatney at hf-law.com (Angela Matney) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 11:48:37 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Keyboard command to read comments in Word In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9E93687A9231064FAD3BBDD80BE19E2B0643FEDD@hfexch1.hirschlerfleischer.com> Are you using JAWS? I seem to recall that control-shift-apostrophe (or, as I find it easier to remember, control-quote, since I'm interested in what the review had to say) brings up a list of comments. Sorry, don't remember the other keystroke off-hand. But JAWS help has a good list of keystrokes related to track-changes. I hope that was somewhat helpful. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:34 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Keyboard command to read comments in Word Help! can anyone on this list tell me the keyboard command to access comments embedded in a Word document? usually, I can get near the highlighted word that refers to a comment , hit the context key, and go to edit comment, and then I can read the comment. However, I am now reading a document that clearly has a comment but for which that technique is not working. any advice much appreciated. Noel Nightingale _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40hf-l aw.com Hirschler Fleischer, A Professional Corporation Confidentiality Note: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by returning it to the sender and delete this copy from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to Treasury Department Circular 230, tax advice contained in this communication and any attachments are not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code, nor may any such tax advice be used to promote, market or recommend to any person any transaction or matter that is the subject of this communication and any attachments. From george.opie at juno.com Wed Jun 29 17:05:17 2011 From: george.opie at juno.com (george.opie at juno.com) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 10:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] Juno Auto Response. Re: blindlaw Digest, Vol 85, Issue 24 Message-ID: I will be unavailable until July 9. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Jun 29 18:11:25 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 13:11:25 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Keyboard command to read comments in Word In-Reply-To: <9E93687A9231064FAD3BBDD80BE19E2B0643FEDD@hfexch1.hirschlerfleischer.com> References: <9E93687A9231064FAD3BBDD80BE19E2B0643FEDD@hfexch1.hirschlerfleischer.com> Message-ID: Thanks for those who responded to my frantic e-mail. I appreciate your help very much as it would have taken a lot longer to find the relevant keyboard command in the JAWS help. Yes, Control-Shift-apostrophe gets to the comments. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angela Matney Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 8:49 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Keyboard command to read comments in Word Are you using JAWS? I seem to recall that control-shift-apostrophe (or, as I find it easier to remember, control-quote, since I'm interested in what the review had to say) brings up a list of comments. Sorry, don't remember the other keystroke off-hand. But JAWS help has a good list of keystrokes related to track-changes. I hope that was somewhat helpful. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:34 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Keyboard command to read comments in Word Help! can anyone on this list tell me the keyboard command to access comments embedded in a Word document? usually, I can get near the highlighted word that refers to a comment , hit the context key, and go to edit comment, and then I can read the comment. However, I am now reading a document that clearly has a comment but for which that technique is not working. any advice much appreciated. Noel Nightingale _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amatney%40hf-l aw.com Hirschler Fleischer, A Professional Corporation Confidentiality Note: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by returning it to the sender and delete this copy from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to Treasury Department Circular 230, tax advice contained in this communication and any attachments are not intended to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code, nor may any such tax advice be used to promote, market or recommend to any person any transaction or matter that is the subject of this communication and any attachments. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Wed Jun 29 22:55:17 2011 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 16:55:17 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 NABL Annual Meeting Agenda attached and pasted into body of this message Message-ID: <9D1503013D3848D38EA13799EC73B66E@labarre> AGENDA NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2011 ANNUAL MEETING --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tuesday, July 5, 2011 Panzacola F-2 Ballroom, Level 1 Rosen Shingle Creek Orlando, Florida 12:30 p.m. REGISTRATION 1:00 p.m. WELCOME AND MEETING LOGISTICS Scott C. LaBarre, President, NABL Denver, Colorado 1:10 p.m. THE RIGHT TO ACCESS INFORMATION: From the United States Supreme Court to the World Intellectual Property Organization Daniel F. Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein, Levy, Baltimore Maryland; Scott C. LaBarre, Principal, LaBarre Law Offices P.C., Denver, Colorado 2:10 p.m. PRACTICING LAW AS A BLIND ATTORNEY: How Do They Do That? Timothy J. Elder, Disability Law Fellow, Brown, Goldstein, Levy, Baltimore Maryland; Parnell Diggs, Principal, Diggs Law Firm, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina; Allison deFranco, Director Human Rights and Inclusive Development, BlueLaw International, Washington, DC 2:55 p.m. LINGUISTIC PROFILING: How It Can Help Your Practice Dr. Sheri Wells-Jensen, Associate Professor, Department of English, Bowling Green State University, Bowling Green, Ohio 3:30 p.m. NABL BUSINESS SESSION: Elections and Other Business 3:50 p.m. CHANGING THE LAW THROUGH THE JACOBUS TENBROEK LAW SYMPOSIUM Lou Ann Blake, J.D., tenBroek Law Symposium Coordinator, NFB, Baltimore Maryland 4:00 p.m. HOW THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND IS CHANGING WHAT IT MEANS TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL Charles S. Brown, First Vice-President NABL Arlington, Virginia 4:30 p.m. DOES THE FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT APPLY TO US? Dr. Marc Maurer, President, NFB Baltimore, Maryland 5:00 p.m. ADJOURN 5:00 to 6:30 p.m. NABL RECEPTION (ticketed event) Join us for cocktails and hors d'oeuvres as we celebrate the progress of our organization. Network and meet your fellow blind attorneys and legal professionals. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2011 nabl conference agenda.doc Type: application/msword Size: 31232 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rumpole at roadrunner.com Thu Jun 30 15:08:31 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:08:31 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Attorney posting - West VA. Message-ID: <556BC6E5C5234CF880CEB19FDACFE598@none8a46117901> * ATTORNEY VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF WEST VIRGINIA ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 11-SDWV-02 Applications must be submitted no later than July 15, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/ausavacancyno17.htm Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Jun 30 17:00:11 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:00:11 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: 2L Diversity Fellowship Announcement Message-ID: Law students: See link below to a diversity fellowship with a Seattle firm. http://www.riddellwilliams.com/diversity/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: RW 2012 2L Diversity Fellowship.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 72850 bytes Desc: RW 2012 2L Diversity Fellowship.pdf URL: From sbg at sbgaal.com Thu Jun 30 20:07:06 2011 From: sbg at sbgaal.com (Shannon Geihsler) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 15:07:06 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 NABL Annual Meeting Agenda attached and pasted intobody of this message In-Reply-To: <9D1503013D3848D38EA13799EC73B66E@labarre> References: <9D1503013D3848D38EA13799EC73B66E@labarre> Message-ID: <1AC7CC5F16B945B582E1A2E65967E6BF@HPLaptop> Will there be a later recording or web cast of the scheduled lectures and discussions? Thanks, Shannon Geihsler Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, TX 79401 Phone: 763-3999 Fax: 749-3752 This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 5:55 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 NABL Annual Meeting Agenda attached and pasted intobody of this message AGENDA NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2011 ANNUAL MEETING ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Tuesday, July 5, 2011 Panzacola F-2 Ballroom, Level 1 Rosen Shingle Creek Orlando, Florida 12:30 p.m. REGISTRATION 1:00 p.m. WELCOME AND MEETING LOGISTICS Scott C. LaBarre, President, NABL Denver, Colorado 1:10 p.m. THE RIGHT TO ACCESS INFORMATION: From the United States Supreme Court to the World Intellectual Property Organization Daniel F. Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein, Levy, Baltimore Maryland; Scott C. LaBarre, Principal, LaBarre Law Offices P.C., Denver, Colorado 2:10 p.m. PRACTICING LAW AS A BLIND ATTORNEY: How Do They Do That? Timothy J. Elder, Disability Law Fellow, Brown, Goldstein, Levy, Baltimore Maryland; Parnell Diggs, Principal, Diggs Law Firm, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina; Allison deFranco, Director Human Rights and Inclusive Development, BlueLaw International, Washington, DC 2:55 p.m. LINGUISTIC PROFILING: How It Can Help Your Practice Dr. Sheri Wells-Jensen, Associate Professor, Department of English, Bowling Green State University, Bowling Green, Ohio 3:30 p.m. NABL BUSINESS SESSION: Elections and Other Business 3:50 p.m. CHANGING THE LAW THROUGH THE JACOBUS TENBROEK LAW SYMPOSIUM Lou Ann Blake, J.D., tenBroek Law Symposium Coordinator, NFB, Baltimore Maryland 4:00 p.m. HOW THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND IS CHANGING WHAT IT MEANS TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL Charles S. Brown, First Vice-President NABL Arlington, Virginia 4:30 p.m. DOES THE FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT APPLY TO US? Dr. Marc Maurer, President, NFB Baltimore, Maryland 5:00 p.m. ADJOURN 5:00 to 6:30 p.m. NABL RECEPTION (ticketed event) Join us for cocktails and hors d'oeuvres as we celebrate the progress of our organization. Network and meet your fellow blind attorneys and legal professionals. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Thu Jun 30 20:11:58 2011 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:11:58 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 NABL Annual Meeting Agenda attached and pasted intobody of this message In-Reply-To: <1AC7CC5F16B945B582E1A2E65967E6BF@HPLaptop> References: <9D1503013D3848D38EA13799EC73B66E@labarre> <1AC7CC5F16B945B582E1A2E65967E6BF@HPLaptop> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F705F3EE57@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Yes, please? It would be so helpful - even if we cannot claim CLE for viewing / listening. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Geihsler Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 1:07 PM To: 'Scott C. LaBarre'; 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] 2011 NABL Annual Meeting Agenda attached and pasted intobody of this message Will there be a later recording or web cast of the scheduled lectures and discussions? Thanks, Shannon Geihsler Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC 1001 Main St., Suite 803 Lubbock, TX 79401 Phone: 763-3999 Fax: 749-3752 This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 5:55 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] 2011 NABL Annual Meeting Agenda attached and pasted intobody of this message AGENDA NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS 2011 ANNUAL MEETING ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Tuesday, July 5, 2011 Panzacola F-2 Ballroom, Level 1 Rosen Shingle Creek Orlando, Florida 12:30 p.m. REGISTRATION 1:00 p.m. WELCOME AND MEETING LOGISTICS Scott C. LaBarre, President, NABL Denver, Colorado 1:10 p.m. THE RIGHT TO ACCESS INFORMATION: From the United States Supreme Court to the World Intellectual Property Organization Daniel F. Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein, Levy, Baltimore Maryland; Scott C. LaBarre, Principal, LaBarre Law Offices P.C., Denver, Colorado 2:10 p.m. PRACTICING LAW AS A BLIND ATTORNEY: How Do They Do That? Timothy J. Elder, Disability Law Fellow, Brown, Goldstein, Levy, Baltimore Maryland; Parnell Diggs, Principal, Diggs Law Firm, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina; Allison deFranco, Director Human Rights and Inclusive Development, BlueLaw International, Washington, DC 2:55 p.m. LINGUISTIC PROFILING: How It Can Help Your Practice Dr. Sheri Wells-Jensen, Associate Professor, Department of English, Bowling Green State University, Bowling Green, Ohio 3:30 p.m. NABL BUSINESS SESSION: Elections and Other Business 3:50 p.m. CHANGING THE LAW THROUGH THE JACOBUS TENBROEK LAW SYMPOSIUM Lou Ann Blake, J.D., tenBroek Law Symposium Coordinator, NFB, Baltimore Maryland 4:00 p.m. HOW THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND IS CHANGING WHAT IT MEANS TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL Charles S. Brown, First Vice-President NABL Arlington, Virginia 4:30 p.m. DOES THE FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT APPLY TO US? Dr. Marc Maurer, President, NFB Baltimore, Maryland 5:00 p.m. ADJOURN 5:00 to 6:30 p.m. NABL RECEPTION (ticketed event) Join us for cocktails and hors d'oeuvres as we celebrate the progress of our organization. Network and meet your fellow blind attorneys and legal professionals. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From rumpole at roadrunner.com Thu Jun 30 20:18:32 2011 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 16:18:32 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Attorney & D.O.J. postings - Alabama & Mexico City Message-ID: *SPECIAL ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA HONORABLE JOYCE WHITE VANCE VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 11-NDAL-04 All resumes/applications should be postmarked by July 15, 2011 http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/11-ndal-04unpaappellatesausa.htm * EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY, GS-905-15 DEPUTY ATTACHE, U .S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, MEXICO CITY OFFICE OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS (OIA) CRIMINAL DIVISION MEXICO CITY, MEXICO 10-CRM-DET-031 CLOSING DATE: July 11, 2011. http://www.justice.gov/oarm/jobs/10-crm-det-031.htm Ross A. Doerr Esquire Admitted to Practice in Maine and New Hampshire F. Ct. Admission: ME. N.H. From LBlake at nfb.org Thu Jun 30 21:10:51 2011 From: LBlake at nfb.org (Blake, Lou Ann) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:10:51 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Recording of 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Message-ID: Dear List Members, I am happy to announce that the recordings of the plenary sessions and keynote addresses from the 2011 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium are now available on the symposium Web page. Please go to http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp to hear recordings from all of the tenBroek symposia. Lou Ann Lou Ann Blake, J.D. HAVA Project Manager and Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund via your phone bill. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Jun 30 21:29:40 2011 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 16:29:40 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: job opening - King County Superior Court - Dependency CASA Program Manager Message-ID: From: Hullett, Judith [mailto:Judith.Hullett at kingcounty.gov] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 2:27 PM To: Hullett, Judith Subject: job opening - King County Superior Court - Dependency CASA Program Manager Good afternoon, You are receiving this email as an officer of a specialty bar association. The attached job announcement is for King County Superior Court's Dependency CASA Program Manager position. We are seeking qualified applicants for the attached job and are asking that you please distribute this to your organization's members. Please be advised that the position is posted on and applications are processed through www.governmentjobs.com Thank you. Judy Hullett, MPA, PHR King County Superior Court Sr. Human Resources Analyst *206-296-9298 6206-205-8271 judith.hullett at kingcounty.gov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Dependency CASA Mgr 06-30-11.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 19293 bytes Desc: Dependency CASA Mgr 06-30-11.docx URL: From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Thu Jun 30 21:49:19 2011 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 15:49:19 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Announcing the 14th Annual Mock Trial Message-ID: <8B07051B2F72445790133B91B6FDFB03@labarre> Here yee, here yee, the National Association of Blind Lawyers is pleased to bring you the 14th Annual Mock Trial where we take an old case affecting the rights of the blind and reenact it to provide both education and entertainment. This year we will be trying the case of Mrs. Dee Voute Robinson v. the Benevolent Works. This social agency refused to hire a highly qualified blind, licensed social worker because of her blindness. The agency says that a blind counselor can't counsel effectively because it is necessary to read body language and it would be impossible for a blind therapist to do home visits. We have a special guest witness this year. Father John Sheehan of the Xavier Society for the Blind will be staring in one of our roles. The admission to the trial is only $5 and you won't be disappointed. Come join us on Monday, July 4th, at 4:15 pm in the Panzacola G-1 Ballroom located on Level 1 of the Rosen Shingle Creek Resort. Regards, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. President, National Association of Blind Lawyers LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.