From emrene at earthlink.net Sun Dec 2 02:25:01 2012 From: emrene at earthlink.net (Elizabeth Rene) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 18:25:01 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Hurray for Habib Message-ID: This man makes me proud. I think that more of us should get out there and follow his lead. Elizabeth From Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov Mon Dec 3 14:12:58 2012 From: Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov (Norman, Gary C. (CMS/OSORA)) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 09:12:58 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: CRPD/Washington Post Editorial Board In-Reply-To: <19B899BD3501D846AD62D3F087E85881013BF299@BL2PRD0810MB373.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> References: <19B899BD3501D846AD62D3F087E85881013BF299@BL2PRD0810MB373.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <5F7E6855B3549A4096D6B30DCADC2D0479D1A6826C@PL-EMSMB4.ees.hhs.gov> From: Joan Durocher [mailto:JDurocher at ncd.gov] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 9:06 AM To: Joan Durocher Subject: CRPD/Washington Post Editorial Board A yea on disabilities By Editorial Board, Published: December 2 THE UNITED STATES has made great progress over the past two decades in opening opportunities for people with disabilities. Many other countries lag far behind. That's why the U.S. Senate ought to ratify a U.N. treaty on rights for people with disabilities, a vote that's scheduled for Tuesday. Anyone who has traveled the world knows that many people with disabilities continue to face overwhelming barriers to participating in their societies. The wheelchair ramps we've come to expect in this country are nonexistent in many places. In developing countries, 90 percent of children with disabilities do not attend school. Huge pools of talent go to waste as a result, and millions of lives fail to reach their potential. Americans pay a price, too. Those who want to travel or work abroad encounter obstacles, and U.S. companies that pay for wheelchair ramps and other accommodations here say that they're at a competitive advantage with overseas companies that don't bear the same expense. (We'd argue that the U.S. firms more than make up the difference by accessing the talent of those with disabilities, but we don't need to debate that question today.) The Convention on the Rights of Persons With Disabilities, which the George W. Bush administration negotiated and signed in 2006, is modeled in large part on the Americans With Disabilities Act, which President George H.W. Bush signed in 1990. It would not require the United States to change its laws, but ratification would give Americans the standing to lobby other nations to follow the U.S. lead and to offer help to those who want to do so. It's been signed by 154 countries and ratified by 124. More than 60 senators have indicated support, but backers say they are about four votes short of the two-thirds majority they need. Opposition comes from the far right, led by former presidential candidate Rick Santorum, who says he worries that the treaty could force changes in U.S. laws. It wouldn't. A more sober analysis from the conservative Heritage Foundation bases its opposition on the argument that the treaty would not help Americans with disabilities at home but would establish an international committee to review periodic reports from the United States and make "such suggestions and general recommendations on the report as it may consider appropriate." Suggestions from foreign experts! The horror! Former Senate majority leader Robert J. Dole, a Kansas Republican, helped push America's disability act into law and is now, at 89, calling GOP senators to urge them to back ratification. "We're the world's leader in disability progress, and this would give us a seat at the table," Mr. Dole told us during a phone call Sunday. "We'd be able to help other countries, because some of the smaller countries are going to need some help." Today's Republican senators could do a lot worse than to heed Mr. Dole's advice. His political career is eloquent testament that heartland conservatism is consistent with enlightened global engagement and a compassionate commitment to civil rights for all - including citizens with disabilities. More on this topic: The Post's View: The tattered safety net for the disabled From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 4 20:16:28 2012 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 14:16:28 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. DOJ Civil Rights Division, Disability Rights Section, Chief, Disability Rights Section, ES-905-00, Announcement Number: 12-SES-CRD-002R In-Reply-To: <41370810CEBD1C4DA64C9361CE162341D42E05A4E8@EDUPTCEXMB01.ed.gov> References: <41370810CEBD1C4DA64C9361CE162341D42E05A4E8@EDUPTCEXMB01.ed.gov> Message-ID: Link: http://www.justice.gov/careers/legal/jobs/12-ses-crd-002r.htm Text: United States Department of Justice Civil Rights Division, Disability Rights Section Chief, Disability Rights Section, ES-905-00 Announcement Number: 12-SES-CRD-002R ________________________________ About the Office: The Civil Rights Division (Division) (http://www.justice.gov/crt/index.php) is seeking a managing attorney to lead the Disability Rights Section (Section) (http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/drs/) in its protection of the rights of persons with disabilities under Titles I, II and III of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). The ADA prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability in over seven million places of public accommodation, including all hotels, restaurants, retail stores, theaters, health care facilities, convention centers, parks, and places of recreation (Title III), in all activities of over 80,000 state and local governments (Title II), and in employment practices of state and local government employers with 15 or more employees (Title I). The ADA also establishes architectural accessibility requirements for new construction and alterations of buildings and facilities covered under Title II and Title III, which generally include all nonresidential buildings and facilities. Title III of the ADA also requires the Department to determine that a State law or local building code that has been submitted to the Department establishes accessibility requirements that meet or exceed the ADA's minimum requirements. This position also serves as the Attorney General's liaison to the U.S. Access Board. In addition, this position is also responsible for implementing the Department's responsibilities under sections 504 and 508 of the Rehabilitation Act, the disability provisions of Executive Order 12250, and the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act. Division offices are near the Metro transportation system or other public transportation, and are conveniently accessible to restaurants, museums and other Washington, D.C. area attractions. Most jobs in the Division offer alternative work schedules and other family friendly opportunities. Most employees who commute by public transportation are eligible for a transit subsidy benefit. Who May Apply: Applications are being accepted from all qualified candidates. Number of Opportunities: 1 Application Period: Applications are being accepted from November 27, 2012 through 11:59 PM, EST December 28, 2012. Responsibilities and Opportunity Offered: As Chief, the successful candidate will: Supervise, evaluate, deploy, coordinate, and manage, directly and through subordinate supervisors, approximately 45 attorneys and 50 non-attorney professionals and support employees conducting a wide variety of activities related to disability rights enforcement, investigations, technical assistance, mediation, and rulemaking. Manage the development of the Section's enforcement strategy and implementation plan, including appropriate allocation of staff resources, oversight of personnel, and handling of administrative matters. Plan, direct, and carry out a nationwide program to enforce the applicable statutory provisions (Titles I, II and III of the ADA, Sections 504 and 508 of the Rehabilitation Act, the Small Business Regulatory Enforcement Fairness Act, the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act, and Executive Order 12250). Initiate, direct and review investigations that arise from complaints and compliance reviews regarding violations of the applicable federal statutes. Direct, supervise, plan, and participate in an active docket of litigation, including drafting and filing of complaints, pre-trial discovery, motions practice, and trials. Intervene in significant cases brought by private litigants. Supervise and prepare amicus briefs and statements of interest. Review and evaluate the work of experts, consultants and court-imposed monitors. Consult and advise the Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights and other Department of Justice officials regarding Section matters and policy matters affecting the applicable statutory provisions. Play a critical role in a range of policy, regulatory, and outreach issues including engaging in public speaking, as appropriate, to educate the public on the Section's work. Coordinate with other components throughout the Division, the Department, and the federal government to ensure comprehensive and collaborative effort to enforce the applicable statutory provisions. Confer with U.S. Attorneys and oversee the handling of U.S. Attorney cases related to the applicable statutory provisions. Resolve cases through settlement agreements, consent decrees, or litigation. Prepare recommendations for or against appeal, including appeals to the Supreme Court, and review briefs or assist in the preparation of argument for cases being appealed. Develop and maintain regulations implementing Titles II and III of the ADA. Respond to requests from State and local governments to certify that their accessibility codes are equivalent to the ADA Standards for Accessible Design. Provide technical assistance to private sector organizations that develop model access codes and standards. Provide legal and policy guidance or disability rights training to other Federal agencies. Serve as the Department's liaison to the U.S. Access Board and participate in the development of minimum accessibility guidelines and other regulations developed by the Board. Provide technical assistance to the general public, to State and local governments, to private entities covered by Title III, and to persons with disabilities. Develop sub-regulatory guidance explaining the requirements of the ADA. Oversee the operations of the ADA Information Line and the ADA Mediation Program. Maintain and expand the ADA website and outreach activities, providing current information on how to comply with the ADA. Required Qualifications: You must be a graduate from a law school accredited by the American Bar Association and be a member in good standing of a state, territory of the United States, District of Columbia, or Commonwealth of Puerto Rico bar. How You Will Be Evaluated: The Office of Personnel Management (OPM) is required by law to review the executive qualifications of each new career appointee to the Senior Executive Service (SES) prior to appointment. To be considered for this position, you must submit a written statement addressing the five (5) Executive Core Qualifications (ECQs) listed below. Failure to address both the mandatory technical/professional qualifications and the ECQs will adversely affect your chances for selection. You must submit a separate narrative statement that addresses each of the Technical Qualifications (TQs) and Mandatory Technical Qualifications (MTQs) related to this position; limit your responses to no more than one page for each TQ/MTQ. Unless you are a current Senior Executive Service (SES) career appointee, a former SES member having reinstatement eligibility, or an OPM-certified graduate of an approved SES Candidate Development Program, you must also submit a separate narrative statement (10-page limit) addressing each of the Executive Core Qualifications (ECQs) related to all positions in the SES. You must address how you have demonstrated progressively responsible leadership experience that is indicative of senior executive level managerial capability and directly related to the skills and abilities outlined in this job announcement. Qualified candidates typically gain experience of this nature at or above the GS-15 grade level in the Federal service or its equivalent with state or local government, the private sector, or nongovernmental organizations. For examples and guidance on writing effective ECQ narrative statements, you are strongly encouraged to review the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) Guide to Senior Executive Service Qualifications: http://www.opm.gov/ses/references/GuidetoSESQuals_2010.pdf. You must use the Challenge- Context- Action- Result (CCAR) model when describing your accomplishments. 1. Technical Qualifications a) A proven record of accomplishment of managing a complex organization and tackling challenging organizational issues. b) Ability to manage a diverse workforce that includes lawyers, non-lawyer professionals, including architects, investigators, technical assistance specialists, and support staff, and federal contractors. c) Ability to establish an organizational vision, develop a strategic plan and implement strategic change, develop and advance policy initiatives, and build coalitions, both within the organization and outside the organization, to effectively enforce the applicable statutory provisions. d) Ability to communicate effectively on complex legal and technical issues, both orally and in writing, including the ability to advocate successfully with diverse stakeholders, external partners and individuals or groups having differing and often conflicting interests, on matters related to the successful execution of a large-scale organization's mission, programs, and projects. e) Demonstrated experience supervising, developing, litigating or resolving issues, and negotiating agreements through effective oral and written communication. f) Demonstrated ability to identify, supervise, plan, and represent employer in complex and significant litigation. Mandatory Technical Qualifications In addition to the specialized education and licensing requirements described above, you must have experience working with one or more of the applicable civil rights statutes. 1. Executive Core Qualifications a) Leading Change: This core qualification involves the ability to bring about strategic change, both within and outside the organization, to meet organizational goals. Inherent to this ECQ is the ability to establish an organizational vision and to implement it in a continuously changing environment. Leadership Competencies for ECQ-1: creativity and innovation, external awareness, flexibility, resilience, strategic thinking, vision. b) Leading People: This core qualification involves the ability to lead people toward meeting the organization's vision, mission, and goals. Inherent to this ECQ is the ability to provide an inclusive workplace that fosters the development of others, facilitates cooperation and teamwork, and supports constructive resolution of conflicts. Leadership Competencies for ECQ-2: conflict management, leveraging diversity, developing others, team building. c) Results Driven: This core qualification involves the ability to meet organizational goals and customer expectations. Inherent to this ECQ is the ability to make decisions that produce high-quality results by applying technical knowledge, analyzing problems, and calculating risks. Leadership Competencies for ECQ-3: accountability, customer service, decisiveness, entrepreneurship, problem solving, technical credibility. d) Business Acumen: This core qualification involves the ability to manage human, financial, and information resources strategically. Leadership Competencies for ECQ-4: financial management, human capital management, technology management. e) Building Coalitions: This core qualification involves the ability to build coalitions internally and with other federal agencies, state and local governments, nonprofit and private sector organizations, foreign governments, or international organizations to achieve common goals. Leadership Competencies for ECQ-5: partnering, political savvy, influencing/negotiating. The following fundamental competencies underlie the five ECQs, which should be incorporated into your responses to the ECQs and not as separate statements: a) Interpersonal Skills: Treats others with courtesy, sensitivity, and respect. Considers and responds appropriately to the needs and feelings of different people in different situations. b) Oral Communication: Makes clear and convincing oral presentations. Listens effectively; clarifies information as needed. c) Integrity/Honesty: Behaves in an honest, fair, and ethical manner. Shows consistency in words and actions. Models high standards of ethics. d) Written Communication: Writes in a clear, concise, organized, and convincing manner for the intended audience. e) Continual Learning: Assesses and recognizes own strengths and weaknesses; pursues self-development. f) Public Service Motivation: Shows a commitment to serve the public. Ensures that actions meet public needs; aligns organizational objectives and practices with public interests. Salary Information: $119,554 - $179,700/Per Year Location: Washington, D.C. Relocation Expenses: Relocation expenses are not authorized. Travel: The position requires extended hours and a significant amount of travel. Submission Process and Deadline Date: You must submit the following information by 11:59 pm EST on the closing date of the job announcement: (1) a resume, (2) your narrative statement addressing each of the TQs and MTQs (limit to one page per TQ/MTQ), (3) your narrative statement addressing each of the ECQs (10-page limit), and (4) a current performance appraisal (if none exists, a statement to that effect). In addition, current career SES members and former SES members who have reinstatement eligibility to the career SES should submit an SF-50 showing career SES status; OPM-certified SES Candidate Development Program graduates should submit a copy of their Qualifications Review Board (QRB) certificate. Completed applications must be submitted by fax (202-514-6603) or e-mail (crd.attyvacancies at usdoj.gov). Please do not mail applications for employment. You must include the job announcement number in the subject line of your email or on the cover page of your fax. Questions may be directed to Delicia Taylor at 202-514-3934 or Delicia.Taylor at usdoj.gov. Other Information: An initial SES career appointee is subject to a one-year SES probationary period. If the Division does not receive the requested application materials, applicants will be evaluated solely on the information available and may not receive full consideration or may not be considered eligible. The application materials will not be returned. The Civil Rights Division participates in the E-Verify Program. BENEFITS: The Department of Justice offers a comprehensive benefits package that includes, in part, paid vacation, sick leave, holidays, telework, life insurance, health benefits, and, participation in the Federal Employees Retirement System. This link provides an overview of the benefits currently offered to eligible federal employees: http://www.usajobs.gov/ResourceCenter/Index/Interactive/Benefits#icc. Internet Sites: This and other attorney vacancy announcements can be found at http://www.justice.gov/careers/legal/attvacancies.html. For more information about the Civil Rights Division, visit the Civil Rights Division's web page. Department Policies: The U.S. Department of Justice is an Equal Opportunity/Reasonable Accommodation Employer. Except where otherwise provided by law, there will be no discrimination because of color, race, religion, national origin, political affiliation, marital status, disability (physical or mental), age, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, genetic information, status as a parent, membership or non-membership in an employee organization, on the basis of personal favoritism, or any non-merit factor. The Department of Justice welcomes and encourages applications from persons with physical and mental disabilities. The Department is firmly committed to satisfying its affirmative obligations under the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, to ensure that persons with disabilities have every opportunity to be hired and advanced on the basis of merit within the Department of Justice. This agency provides reasonable accommodation to applicants with disabilities where appropriate. If you need a reasonable accommodation for any part of the application and hiring process, please notify the agency. Determinations on requests for reasonable accommodation will be made on a case-by-case basis. It is the policy of the Department to achieve a drug-free workplace and persons selected for employment will be required to pass a drug test which screens for illegal drug use prior to final appointment. Employment is also contingent upon the completion and satisfactory adjudication of a background investigation. Only U.S. citizens are eligible for employment with the Executive Office for Immigration Review and the United States Attorneys' Offices. Unless otherwise indicated in a particular job advertisement, non-U.S. citizens may apply for employment with other organizations, but should be advised that appointments of non-U.S. citizens are extremely rare; such appointments would be possible only if necessary to accomplish the Department's mission and would be subject to strict security requirements. Applicants who hold dual citizenship in the U.S. and another country will be considered on a case-by-case basis. * * * The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of information contained in this vacancy announcement. Such posting and/or dissemination are not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. From rumpole at roadrunner.com Thu Dec 6 16:58:25 2012 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 11:58:25 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] SSA SGA and COLA links Message-ID: <7D242558BF60436E826B8950DA57AC8D@mycomputer> For those of you who help others who are not quite as computer savvy or as skilled in legal /regulatory research as you are, feel free to pass this along to them. They are the links to the new SSDI SGA and COLA information that will take effect in January. I hope this helps. Ross *** The SGA amount for blind is found at the link shown below - it is $1,740.00 if you are within the calculation displayed there. http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/sgadet.html If you wish to know the COLA information for the SSA, go to: http://www.ssa.gov/cola/#content Ross From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Sun Dec 9 04:43:03 2012 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 04:43:03 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Robert D. Dittman JD Message-ID: <66379BDA-C575-427E-BD7E-FA9E9A2AADEA@stmarytx.edu> Just wanted to say the subject says it all. I am so happy and excited about the next steps of my legal calling. Take care and will keep you all informed. Robert D. Dittman, JD From paulharpur at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 05:09:36 2012 From: paulharpur at gmail.com (Paul Harpur) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 15:09:36 +1000 Subject: [blindlaw] Robert D. Dittman JD In-Reply-To: <66379BDA-C575-427E-BD7E-FA9E9A2AADEA@stmarytx.edu> References: <66379BDA-C575-427E-BD7E-FA9E9A2AADEA@stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <306418547639337275@unknownmsgid> Congratz Sent from my iPhone On 09/12/2012, at 2:44 PM, "Dittman, Robert" wrote: > Just wanted to say the subject says it all. > > I am so happy and excited about the next steps of my legal calling. > > Take care and will keep you all informed. > > Robert D. Dittman, JD > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com From wburley at burley-wilson.com Sun Dec 9 10:22:58 2012 From: wburley at burley-wilson.com (William Burley) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 04:22:58 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Robert D. Dittman JD In-Reply-To: <66379BDA-C575-427E-BD7E-FA9E9A2AADEA@stmarytx.edu> References: <66379BDA-C575-427E-BD7E-FA9E9A2AADEA@stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: Congratulations! I'm very happy for you. Much success Will Burley Burley-Wilson & Associates Main: 888-494-0031 Direct: 832-529-3243 Web:www.burley-wilson.com "Virtual Consultants for Your Success" On Dec 8, 2012, at 10:43 PM, "Dittman, Robert" wrote: > Just wanted to say the subject says it all. > > I am so happy and excited about the next steps of my legal calling. > > Take care and will keep you all informed. > > Robert D. Dittman, JD > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wburley%40burley-wilson.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 11 00:36:11 2012 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 16:36:11 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Robert D. Dittman JD In-Reply-To: <66379BDA-C575-427E-BD7E-FA9E9A2AADEA@stmarytx.edu> References: <66379BDA-C575-427E-BD7E-FA9E9A2AADEA@stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <496934CB87CF4133B51F750ECC6142B8@Spike> Congratulations and best of luck. Chuck Krugman, MSW Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dittman, Robert" To: Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 8:43 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Robert D. Dittman JD > Just wanted to say the subject says it all. > > I am so happy and excited about the next steps of my legal calling. > > Take care and will keep you all informed. > > Robert D. Dittman, JD > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From wickps at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 00:46:59 2012 From: wickps at gmail.com (Paul Wick) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 16:46:59 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Robert D. Dittman JD In-Reply-To: <496934CB87CF4133B51F750ECC6142B8@Spike> References: <66379BDA-C575-427E-BD7E-FA9E9A2AADEA@stmarytx.edu> <496934CB87CF4133B51F750ECC6142B8@Spike> Message-ID: Congrats Robert! While there really aren't many law jobs out there right now, I'm sure you'll land something! Best, Paul On 12/10/12, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: > Congratulations and best of luck. > Chuck Krugman, MSW Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dittman, Robert" > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 8:43 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Robert D. Dittman JD > > >> Just wanted to say the subject says it all. >> >> I am so happy and excited about the next steps of my legal calling. >> >> Take care and will keep you all informed. >> >> Robert D. Dittman, JD >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wickps%40gmail.com > From CJECKEL at LAW.JMLS.EDU Tue Dec 11 16:16:14 2012 From: CJECKEL at LAW.JMLS.EDU (Jeckel, Christopher) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:16:14 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers Message-ID: Hey Gang, So the tech support folks at G.W. Micro have explained to me that the function on WindowEyes which allows a user to hover the mouse over text for audio feedback will most likely not be compatible with most online browsers in a few years. Reason being is because of the new way Microsoft is writing code for windows. The program will still work fine, just not with the hover function. What this means for me and other partially sighted WindowEyes users is that we will have to learn how to use WindowEyes or Jaws only using the key commands, hot keys etc. My question for you all is when doing legal research, have you found any particular combination of Jaws or WindowEyes with Lexis or WestLaw to be the most efficient? Do you find one legal database easier to navigate with a screen reader than the other using key commands, hot keys, etc.? Love you guys, Chris From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Tue Dec 11 16:23:19 2012 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:23:19 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301cdd7bb$d5b30d70$81192850$@wiennergould.com> I have used both jaws and window-eyes with Westlaw and lexis, and I didn't find much difference. I haven't used the new west cite though, whatever it is called. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI 48307 Phone: (248) 841-9405 Fax: (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jeckel, Christopher Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:16 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers Hey Gang, So the tech support folks at G.W. Micro have explained to me that the function on WindowEyes which allows a user to hover the mouse over text for audio feedback will most likely not be compatible with most online browsers in a few years. Reason being is because of the new way Microsoft is writing code for windows. The program will still work fine, just not with the hover function. What this means for me and other partially sighted WindowEyes users is that we will have to learn how to use WindowEyes or Jaws only using the key commands, hot keys etc. My question for you all is when doing legal research, have you found any particular combination of Jaws or WindowEyes with Lexis or Westlaw to be the most efficient? Do you find one legal database easier to navigate with a screen reader than the other using key commands, hot keys, etc.? Love you guys, Chris _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergould. com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Tue Dec 11 16:31:47 2012 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 09:31:47 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I use a combination of MAGic and JAWS with WestLaw, usually the text version (text.westlaw.com). I was one of the people that WestLaw Next was tested on for accessibility software, and it seemed fairly usable, but I still prefer using the less "busy" screen on the text-only version of WestLaw, as do a lot of co-workers with no vision problems. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jeckel, Christopher Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:16 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers Hey Gang, So the tech support folks at G.W. Micro have explained to me that the function on WindowEyes which allows a user to hover the mouse over text for audio feedback will most likely not be compatible with most online browsers in a few years. Reason being is because of the new way Microsoft is writing code for windows. The program will still work fine, just not with the hover function. What this means for me and other partially sighted WindowEyes users is that we will have to learn how to use WindowEyes or Jaws only using the key commands, hot keys etc. My question for you all is when doing legal research, have you found any particular combination of Jaws or WindowEyes with Lexis or WestLaw to be the most efficient? Do you find one legal database easier to navigate with a screen reader than the other using key commands, hot keys, etc.? Love you guys, Chris _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima .gov From tmeloy at fuse.net Tue Dec 11 17:53:11 2012 From: tmeloy at fuse.net (Timothy J. Meloy) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:53:11 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers In-Reply-To: <000301cdd7bb$d5b30d70$81192850$@wiennergould.com> References: <000301cdd7bb$d5b30d70$81192850$@wiennergould.com> Message-ID: <82069B5F-0188-4DAA-B95D-60F9F0EF6AB3@fuse.net> I have used jaws and VoiceOver with Lexis and find the site very useable. I used the text westlaw site in law school quite extensively. At the time, it was very accessible. I'm not sure if westlaw next has changed all of that. Best, TJ On Dec 11, 2012, at 11:23 AM, "Daniel K. Beitz" wrote: > I have used both jaws and window-eyes with Westlaw and lexis, and I didn't > find much difference. I haven't used the new west cite though, whatever it > is called. > > > > ------------------------------------------- > Daniel K. Beitz > Wienner & Gould, P.C. > 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 > Rochester, MI 48307 > Phone: (248) 841-9405 > Fax: (248) 652-2729 > dbeitz at wiennergould.com > This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages > attached > to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If > you are > not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this > email > to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, > copying, > or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or > attached to > this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in > error, > please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by > telephoning > us at (248) 841-9400. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jeckel, > Christopher > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:16 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers > > Hey Gang, > > So the tech support folks at G.W. Micro have explained to me that the > function on WindowEyes which allows a user to hover the mouse over text for > audio feedback will most likely not be compatible with most online browsers > in a few years. Reason being is because of the new way Microsoft is writing > code for windows. The program will still work fine, just not with the hover > function. What this means for me and other partially sighted WindowEyes > users is that we will have to learn how to use WindowEyes or Jaws only using > the key commands, hot keys etc. > > My question for you all is when doing legal research, have you found any > particular combination of Jaws or WindowEyes with Lexis or Westlaw to be the > most efficient? Do you find one legal database easier to navigate with a > screen reader than the other using key commands, hot keys, etc.? > > Love you guys, > Chris > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergould. > com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tmeloy%40fuse.net From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 11 17:54:30 2012 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:54:30 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: DREDF Job Announcement In-Reply-To: <754CD11606D64746A911DFADB3D18CD509E225@EXCH-MB-02.aba.ad.abanet.org> References: <28F37B84-C923-4A9E-8447-EF9610772D69@mac.com> <754CD11606D64746A911DFADB3D18CD509E225@EXCH-MB-02.aba.ad.abanet.org> Message-ID: From: The Disability Discussion Docket (3D) - Official e-mail list of the Commission on Disability Right [mailto:3D at MAIL.AMERICANBAR.ORG] On Behalf Of Rita, Sherri Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:00 AM To: 3D at MAIL.AMERICANBAR.ORG Subject: [ABA-3D] DREDF Job Announcement Job Announcement - Litigation Attorney The Disability Rights Education & Defense Fund, a leading disability rights law and policy center based in Berkeley, California seeks a senior litigation attorney. A Litigation Attorney must be able to manage her/his own caseload as well supervise the work of DREDF's staff lawyers, law student interns, and legal support staff. The ideal candidate has a minimum of seven years of progressively responsible experience as a litigator including experience with disability civil rights laws (Section 504, Americans with Disabilities Act, Individuals with Disabilities Education Act). The candidate will possess a record of professional achievement that includes significant litigation experience. Requirements 1. California Bar membership. (This requirement may be waived for a reasonable period of time, at DREDF's discretion to permit anew hire to take and pass the California Bar examination.) 2. A minimum of seven years experience practicing civil litigation law as a licensed attorney. 3. Excellent written and verbal communication skills. 4. Commitment to disability rights and DREDF's mission. Litigation Responsibilities 1. Working with DREDF's directing attorney and litigation staff, perform all aspects of state and federal court litigation, including pre-complaint investigation, complaint drafting, motion practice, discovery, trial preparation, trial, post-trial briefing and appellate work. 2. Negotiate and execute settlement of litigation as necessary. 3. Communicate with clients about litigation matters. 4. Select, research, develop and present cases that will have an impact on the state of disability rights and where successful resolution will provide relief to individuals with disabilities. 5. Negotiate co-counseling agreements (including division of responsibilities, fees, costs/expenses and media contacts) with private law firms and other nonprofit firms. 6. Keep abreast of new issues in the field of disability rights law, legal ethics, and all other matters necessary for the vigorous and competent representation of DREDF's clients. 7. Establish and maintain contact with other public interest and private sector lawyers in disability rights law. 8. Maintain and preserve accurate, contemporaneous records of time spent on litigation and other work performed. 9. Supervise and provide guidance and mentoring to staff attorneys, summer law interns, and fellows. 10. Lead litigation teams in large cases, appeals and amicus efforts. 11. Supervise fellows, paralegals, law clerks, and other junior members of litigation teams. Other Responsibilities 1. As a member of DREDF legal team, develop long-range strategic plans to guide DREDF's litigation activities. 2. Collaborate with DREDF's legal team in identifying and developing cases that will have the greatest impact in advancing DREDF's mission. 3. Serve as attorney liaison to and participate in Board meetings on matters related to DREDF's litigation program. 4. Share responsibilities with DREDF lawyers for media relations generally arising out of DREDF's litigation and disability law matters. 5. Work Executive Director and Director of Development, as needed, on fundraising (e.g., meeting with funders and prospective funders, supplying information for digital news). 6. Maintain and enhance DREDF's institutional identity in the legal and civil rights community through public speaking, writing, and attendance at appropriate functions. Compensation Salary is dependent on experience and will be in line with DREDF's salary schedule. DREDF provides generous benefits, including medical, dental, life and long-term disability insurance; four weeks' vacation and paid holidays. Application Process Apply immediately. Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. All inquires will be treated with confidentiality. Please email cover letter, resume, writing sample, and at least two references to: Susan Henderson, Executive Director Disability Rights Education & Defense Fund shenderson at dredf.org From amarjain at amarjain.com Tue Dec 11 18:02:58 2012 From: amarjain at amarjain.com (Amar Jain) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 23:32:58 +0530 Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers In-Reply-To: <82069B5F-0188-4DAA-B95D-60F9F0EF6AB3@fuse.net> References: <000301cdd7bb$d5b30d70$81192850$@wiennergould.com> <82069B5F-0188-4DAA-B95D-60F9F0EF6AB3@fuse.net> Message-ID: <0FFD4C1A7C1C4463978B7E373394A885@AmarVAIO> I have been using Westlaw and Lexis with Jaws for quite long now. I don't find any issue as such. Regards, Amar Jain. Website: www.amarjain.com -----Original Message----- From: Timothy J. Meloy Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:23 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers I have used jaws and VoiceOver with Lexis and find the site very useable. I used the text westlaw site in law school quite extensively. At the time, it was very accessible. I'm not sure if westlaw next has changed all of that. Best, TJ On Dec 11, 2012, at 11:23 AM, "Daniel K. Beitz" wrote: > I have used both jaws and window-eyes with Westlaw and lexis, and I didn't > find much difference. I haven't used the new west cite though, whatever > it > is called. > > > > ------------------------------------------- > Daniel K. Beitz > Wienner & Gould, P.C. > 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 > Rochester, MI 48307 > Phone: (248) 841-9405 > Fax: (248) 652-2729 > dbeitz at wiennergould.com > This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email > messages > attached > to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If > you are > not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering > this > email > to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, > copying, > or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or > attached to > this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication > in > error, > please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by > telephoning > us at (248) 841-9400. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jeckel, > Christopher > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:16 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers > > Hey Gang, > > So the tech support folks at G.W. Micro have explained to me that the > function on WindowEyes which allows a user to hover the mouse over text > for > audio feedback will most likely not be compatible with most online > browsers > in a few years. Reason being is because of the new way Microsoft is > writing > code for windows. The program will still work fine, just not with the > hover > function. What this means for me and other partially sighted WindowEyes > users is that we will have to learn how to use WindowEyes or Jaws only > using > the key commands, hot keys etc. > > My question for you all is when doing legal research, have you found any > particular combination of Jaws or WindowEyes with Lexis or Westlaw to be > the > most efficient? Do you find one legal database easier to navigate with a > screen reader than the other using key commands, hot keys, etc.? > > Love you guys, > Chris > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergould. > com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tmeloy%40fuse.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/amarjain%40amarjain.com From taiablas at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 18:05:50 2012 From: taiablas at gmail.com (Tai Blas) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:05:50 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03ac01cdd7ca$27e299e0$77a7cda0$@gmail.com> Hello. Personally, I use Westlaw Next with JAWS and find it very easy to navigate. However, this is probably due to the fact that I was trained in Westlaw Next prior to law school at a National Association of Blind Lawyers meeting and started law school using Westlaw Next. Consequently, I didn't have to switch interfaces. I also use Lexis and traditional Westlaw with no difficulty. I rarely use the text.westlaw.com interface but feel I would be more productive if I didn't have to wade through the clutter in Westlaw so will try it. Tai -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jeckel, Christopher Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 10:16 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers Hey Gang, So the tech support folks at G.W. Micro have explained to me that the function on WindowEyes which allows a user to hover the mouse over text for audio feedback will most likely not be compatible with most online browsers in a few years. Reason being is because of the new way Microsoft is writing code for windows. The program will still work fine, just not with the hover function. What this means for me and other partially sighted WindowEyes users is that we will have to learn how to use WindowEyes or Jaws only using the key commands, hot keys etc. My question for you all is when doing legal research, have you found any particular combination of Jaws or WindowEyes with Lexis or WestLaw to be the most efficient? Do you find one legal database easier to navigate with a screen reader than the other using key commands, hot keys, etc.? Love you guys, Chris _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com From angie.matney at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 18:07:00 2012 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:07:00 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am not a fan of Westlaw Text at all. It's harder for me to navigate than other sites, and it doesn't provide the level of detail I need when search results are displayed. Except for some random crashes when I try to change my jurisdiction in WestlawNext, the site is very accessible with JAWS, as is regular Westlaw. I haven't used Lexis in a few years, but it was just as accessible back then. I prefer all of these sites to the text.westlaw.com site. I can do more with screen-reader keystrokes on Westlaw Classic and WestlawNext. In JFW, x and shift-x take you to the next and prior checkbox respectively. This makes jumping between search results a snap. I imagine WindowEyes has a similar keystroke. Also, each of these sites displays excerpts from your search results on the results page. I don't know of a way to make Westlaw Text do this, which means I have to click on each result to see if it is relevant--far too time-consuming. If there is a way to have Westlaw Text display excerpts from search results, I would really be interested to know about it. Basically, I have found that it helps to learn about the different elements on the page of your preferred database and then learn the corresponding keystrokes for your screen-reader. On 12/11/12, Susan Kelly wrote: > I use a combination of MAGic and JAWS with WestLaw, usually the text > version (text.westlaw.com). I was one of the people that WestLaw Next > was tested on for accessibility software, and it seemed fairly usable, > but I still prefer using the less "busy" screen on the text-only version > of WestLaw, as do a lot of co-workers with no vision problems. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jeckel, > Christopher > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:16 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers > > Hey Gang, > > So the tech support folks at G.W. Micro have explained to me that the > function on WindowEyes which allows a user to hover the mouse over text > for audio feedback will most likely not be compatible with most online > browsers in a few years. Reason being is because of the new way > Microsoft is writing code for windows. The program will still work > fine, just not with the hover function. What this means for me and > other partially sighted WindowEyes users is that we will have to learn > how to use WindowEyes or Jaws only using the key commands, hot keys etc. > > > My question for you all is when doing legal research, have you found any > particular combination of Jaws or WindowEyes with Lexis or WestLaw to be > the most efficient? Do you find one legal database easier to navigate > with a screen reader than the other using key commands, hot keys, etc.? > > Love you guys, > Chris > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima > .gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com > From taiablas at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 18:42:04 2012 From: taiablas at gmail.com (Tai Blas) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:42:04 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <043e01cdd7cf$37acdc50$a70694f0$@gmail.com> I echo Angie's comments. I have noticed some improvement with the crashing problems I was having when saving items to my Westlaw Next folders and love the folder functionality. The ability to save to folders is something the text and traditional Westlaw sites do not have, and no fees are assessed for accessing items you save to folders. I haven't changed jurisdictions in a while so I am not sure if they fixed this crashing problem, but after I called them about the crashes when saving to folders, it seemed to get better so they must have fixed something. If you are experiencing crashes when changing jurisdictions in Westlaw Next, please call their customer support and ask them to fix the problem, as this seems to get results quickly. Thanks. Tai -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 12:07 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers I am not a fan of Westlaw Text at all. It's harder for me to navigate than other sites, and it doesn't provide the level of detail I need when search results are displayed. Except for some random crashes when I try to change my jurisdiction in WestlawNext, the site is very accessible with JAWS, as is regular Westlaw. I haven't used Lexis in a few years, but it was just as accessible back then. I prefer all of these sites to the text.westlaw.com site. I can do more with screen-reader keystrokes on Westlaw Classic and WestlawNext. In JFW, x and shift-x take you to the next and prior checkbox respectively. This makes jumping between search results a snap. I imagine WindowEyes has a similar keystroke. Also, each of these sites displays excerpts from your search results on the results page. I don't know of a way to make Westlaw Text do this, which means I have to click on each result to see if it is relevant--far too time-consuming. If there is a way to have Westlaw Text display excerpts from search results, I would really be interested to know about it. Basically, I have found that it helps to learn about the different elements on the page of your preferred database and then learn the corresponding keystrokes for your screen-reader. On 12/11/12, Susan Kelly wrote: > I use a combination of MAGic and JAWS with WestLaw, usually the text > version (text.westlaw.com). I was one of the people that WestLaw Next > was tested on for accessibility software, and it seemed fairly usable, > but I still prefer using the less "busy" screen on the text-only > version of WestLaw, as do a lot of co-workers with no vision problems. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Jeckel, Christopher > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:16 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers > > Hey Gang, > > So the tech support folks at G.W. Micro have explained to me that the > function on WindowEyes which allows a user to hover the mouse over > text for audio feedback will most likely not be compatible with most > online browsers in a few years. Reason being is because of the new > way Microsoft is writing code for windows. The program will still > work fine, just not with the hover function. What this means for me > and other partially sighted WindowEyes users is that we will have to > learn how to use WindowEyes or Jaws only using the key commands, hot keys etc. > > > My question for you all is when doing legal research, have you found > any particular combination of Jaws or WindowEyes with Lexis or WestLaw > to be the most efficient? Do you find one legal database easier to > navigate with a screen reader than the other using key commands, hot keys, etc.? > > Love you guys, > Chris > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pi > ma > .gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40g > mail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com From Itsmylaw2 at aol.com Tue Dec 11 21:48:21 2012 From: Itsmylaw2 at aol.com (Itsmylaw2 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:48:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: [blindlaw] new member Message-ID: <1c6bc.42a08f50.3df90425@aol.com> Hello, I just want to introduce myself to the list as I have just joined. My name is Emilie and have been a member with the Florida bar for 11 years. I have spent all those years with the Public Defender's Office until recently. I graduated from Stetson University College of Law. Emilie Morgan From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 23:37:08 2012 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 18:37:08 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] new member References: <1c6bc.42a08f50.3df90425@aol.com> Message-ID: <000d01cdd7f8$705d0ce0$0202a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Hi I'm RJ, and I live in Florida as well. I am not a lawyer. I'm just interest in the law. What Circuit are you in? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 4:48 PM Subject: [blindlaw] new member > Hello, > I just want to introduce myself to the list as I have just joined. My > name is Emilie and have been a member with the Florida bar for 11 years. > I > have spent all those years with the Public Defender's Office until > recently. > I graduated from Stetson University College of Law. > > Emilie Morgan > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From attorney at alcidonislaw.com Tue Dec 11 23:58:52 2012 From: attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Alcidonis Law Office) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 18:58:52 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] new member In-Reply-To: <1c6bc.42a08f50.3df90425@aol.com> References: <1c6bc.42a08f50.3df90425@aol.com> Message-ID: <5961AA9B02234ECA98F864F6867B1D95@RodPC> Welcome, emilie. Rod Alcidonis, Esquire. Alcidonis Law Office, LLC 2824 Cottman Avenue Suite 15 Philadelphia, PA 19149 Tel: (215) 305-8085 Fax: (215) 525-0999 Work: Attorney at alcidonislaw.com Listservs: lawoffice at alcidonislaw.com Licensed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. -----Original Message----- From: Itsmylaw2 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 4:48 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] new member Hello, I just want to introduce myself to the list as I have just joined. My name is Emilie and have been a member with the Florida bar for 11 years. I have spent all those years with the Public Defender's Office until recently. I graduated from Stetson University College of Law. Emilie Morgan _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com From paul.sullivan416 at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 15:26:25 2012 From: paul.sullivan416 at gmail.com (Paul Sullivan) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:26:25 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Social Media and Jaws Message-ID: Hi all, I'm curious to know which, if any, social media sites you use, and that work well with Jaws. I use facebook personally, with the mobile site, but I don't think I'm going to use it professionally. I'm particularly interested in hearing about your experiences with LinkedIn and Twitter. Are those sites themselves accessible, or are there mobile varients, or are they not accessible at all? Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Paul From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 13 16:48:41 2012 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 08:48:41 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Social Media and Jaws In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0DDF8CF9C5F54448A9C431A4100197E0@Spike> I tolerate Facebook for announcements and to receive information. I regularly use LinkedIn and find it very accessible with JAWS and it works well for networking and the information provided in professional groups is worthwhile. As a free lance paralegal it works well for these purposes. Chuck Krugman, MSW Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/chuck-krugman/b/357/722 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Sullivan" To: Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 7:26 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Social Media and Jaws > Hi all, > > I'm curious to know which, if any, social media sites you use, and > that work well with Jaws. I use facebook personally, with the mobile > site, but I don't think I'm going to use it professionally. > > I'm particularly interested in hearing about your experiences with > LinkedIn and Twitter. Are those sites themselves accessible, or are > there mobile varients, or are they not accessible at all? > > Thanks in advance for your thoughts. > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Thu Dec 13 17:22:27 2012 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 09:22:27 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Looking for anyone doing computer forensics Message-ID: <000501cdd956$6d010290$470307b0$@net> Heello: My apologies for cross posting. I am researching the possibility of a career change to computer forensics and would like to contact anyone engaged in this field of work. Thank you. Regards, Robert Jaquiss Email: rjaquiss at earthlink.net From wburley at burley-wilson.com Thu Dec 13 17:57:57 2012 From: wburley at burley-wilson.com (William Burley) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 11:57:57 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Social Media and Jaws In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <513AB044-2921-422A-B22C-5EED6615C248@burley-wilson.com> Good morning! I utilize LinkedIn Daily and find it very accessible. I'm able to create my own groups, search for groups and participate and the answers section. As for Twitter I generally use the Smart phone app or the third-party app called tweet list. I have my Twitter account linked to my LinkedIn Account and they are Both hooked up to my Facebook account. Another networking platform that you may want to use is NeetUp.com, Depending on where you live, there may be a myriad of groups and your practice areas. I tend to use the mobile version and the smart phone app for this as well. I hope this helps! Will Burley Burley-Wilson & Associates Main: 888-494-0031 Direct: 832-529-3243 Web:www.burley-wilson.com "Virtual Consultants for Your Success" On Dec 13, 2012, at 9:26 AM, Paul Sullivan wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm curious to know which, if any, social media sites you use, and > that work well with Jaws. I use facebook personally, with the mobile > site, but I don't think I'm going to use it professionally. > > I'm particularly interested in hearing about your experiences with > LinkedIn and Twitter. Are those sites themselves accessible, or are > there mobile varients, or are they not accessible at all? > > Thanks in advance for your thoughts. > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wburley%40burley-wilson.com From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 13 19:40:35 2012 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 11:40:35 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Looking for anyone doing computer forensics References: <000501cdd956$6d010290$470307b0$@net> Message-ID: Hello Robert, This is a subject in which I am also interested. To reach me off list, my email address is: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jaquiss" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 9:22 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Looking for anyone doing computer forensics > Heello: > > > > My apologies for cross posting. I am researching the possibility of a > career change to computer forensics and would like to contact anyone > engaged > in this field of work. Thank you. > > > > Regards, > > > > Robert Jaquiss > > > > Email: rjaquiss at earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net Fri Dec 14 02:28:37 2012 From: dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net (Daniel McBride) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:28:37 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] child custody Message-ID: <01ab01cdd9a2$b9686b90$2c3942b0$@sbcglobal.net> Potential client has Suit Affecting Parent Child Relationship pending in Texas. Potential client is granted Possessory Conservatorship with the Family Code standard visitation of first, third and fifth weekends of the month. However, potential client is blind, the child is a 19 month old daughter and the Court has conditioned his possession of the child on him having sighted assistance by any competent adult during his periods of possession. Potential client asks whether the condition of possession violates any concepts of discrimination pursuant to the Americans With Disabilities Act. I would appreciate any thoughts you have. Thank you. Daniel McBride, Attorney Fort Worth, Texas From blinddog3 at charter.net Fri Dec 14 02:43:41 2012 From: blinddog3 at charter.net (Steven Johnson) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:43:41 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] child custody In-Reply-To: <01ab01cdd9a2$b9686b90$2c3942b0$@sbcglobal.net> References: <01ab01cdd9a2$b9686b90$2c3942b0$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <000001cdd9a4$d4000f10$7c002d30$@charter.net> Out of curiosity, is there any other Child Protective History with this potential client? Take out the blind aspect, is there anything else that has been provided that would suggest that supervised visits are necessary? For example, Hx of drug, alcohol or other substance use, maltreatment at any level, a criminal background that could suggest that such supervision is necessary? I am not a lega expert, but I do work in the Child Protective Service field. Steve -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:29 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] child custody Potential client has Suit Affecting Parent Child Relationship pending in Texas. Potential client is granted Possessory Conservatorship with the Family Code standard visitation of first, third and fifth weekends of the month. However, potential client is blind, the child is a 19 month old daughter and the Court has conditioned his possession of the child on him having sighted assistance by any competent adult during his periods of possession. Potential client asks whether the condition of possession violates any concepts of discrimination pursuant to the Americans With Disabilities Act. I would appreciate any thoughts you have. Thank you. Daniel McBride, Attorney Fort Worth, Texas _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne t From dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net Fri Dec 14 02:49:12 2012 From: dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net (Daniel McBride) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:49:12 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] child custody In-Reply-To: <000001cdd9a4$d4000f10$7c002d30$@charter.net> References: <01ab01cdd9a2$b9686b90$2c3942b0$@sbcglobal.net> <000001cdd9a4$d4000f10$7c002d30$@charter.net> Message-ID: <01bc01cdd9a5$99631090$cc2931b0$@sbcglobal.net> There are no other issues. The sole issue is his blindness and the child's age. Further, it would be more accurate to refer to the condition of possession as "chaperone" than "supervision". A subtle distinction I know, but a distinction nonetheless. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven Johnson Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:44 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] child custody Out of curiosity, is there any other Child Protective History with this potential client? Take out the blind aspect, is there anything else that has been provided that would suggest that supervised visits are necessary? For example, Hx of drug, alcohol or other substance use, maltreatment at any level, a criminal background that could suggest that such supervision is necessary? I am not a lega expert, but I do work in the Child Protective Service field. Steve -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:29 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] child custody Potential client has Suit Affecting Parent Child Relationship pending in Texas. Potential client is granted Possessory Conservatorship with the Family Code standard visitation of first, third and fifth weekends of the month. However, potential client is blind, the child is a 19 month old daughter and the Court has conditioned his possession of the child on him having sighted assistance by any competent adult during his periods of possession. Potential client asks whether the condition of possession violates any concepts of discrimination pursuant to the Americans With Disabilities Act. I would appreciate any thoughts you have. Thank you. Daniel McBride, Attorney Fort Worth, Texas _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne t _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net From rthomas at emplmntattorney.com Fri Dec 14 03:07:24 2012 From: rthomas at emplmntattorney.com (Russ Thomas) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 19:07:24 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] child custody In-Reply-To: <000001cdd9a4$d4000f10$7c002d30$@charter.net> References: <01ab01cdd9a2$b9686b90$2c3942b0$@sbcglobal.net> <000001cdd9a4$d4000f10$7c002d30$@charter.net> Message-ID: <000b01cdd9a8$2436b2b0$6ca41810$@com> The focus of any argument to be mounted on this issue is the "best interests of the child test." Properly framed the issue is whether requiring this type of supervised visit is in the best interest of the child. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven Johnson Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 6:44 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] child custody Out of curiosity, is there any other Child Protective History with this potential client? Take out the blind aspect, is there anything else that has been provided that would suggest that supervised visits are necessary? For example, Hx of drug, alcohol or other substance use, maltreatment at any level, a criminal background that could suggest that such supervision is necessary? I am not a lega expert, but I do work in the Child Protective Service field. Steve -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:29 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] child custody Potential client has Suit Affecting Parent Child Relationship pending in Texas. Potential client is granted Possessory Conservatorship with the Family Code standard visitation of first, third and fifth weekends of the month. However, potential client is blind, the child is a 19 month old daughter and the Court has conditioned his possession of the child on him having sighted assistance by any competent adult during his periods of possession. Potential client asks whether the condition of possession violates any concepts of discrimination pursuant to the Americans With Disabilities Act. I would appreciate any thoughts you have. Thank you. Daniel McBride, Attorney Fort Worth, Texas _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne t _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40emplmntattor ney.com From rthomas at emplmntattorney.com Fri Dec 14 03:28:18 2012 From: rthomas at emplmntattorney.com (Russ Thomas) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 19:28:18 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] child custody In-Reply-To: <01bc01cdd9a5$99631090$cc2931b0$@sbcglobal.net> References: <01ab01cdd9a2$b9686b90$2c3942b0$@sbcglobal.net> <000001cdd9a4$d4000f10$7c002d30$@charter.net> <01bc01cdd9a5$99631090$cc2931b0$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <001201cdd9ab$0fae7960$2f0b6c20$@com> That distinction is important. If the Court views the situation as requiring some type of supervised visit, in my view the court is on thin ice -- why would a blind person need to be supervised if a sighted person were not; if the point is merely to provide a companion, or to have someone available if assistance were needed, then the issue of discrimination is probably avoided. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 6:49 PM To: blinddog3 at charter.net; 'Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] child custody There are no other issues. The sole issue is his blindness and the child's age. Further, it would be more accurate to refer to the condition of possession as "chaperone" than "supervision". A subtle distinction I know, but a distinction nonetheless. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven Johnson Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:44 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] child custody Out of curiosity, is there any other Child Protective History with this potential client? Take out the blind aspect, is there anything else that has been provided that would suggest that supervised visits are necessary? For example, Hx of drug, alcohol or other substance use, maltreatment at any level, a criminal background that could suggest that such supervision is necessary? I am not a lega expert, but I do work in the Child Protective Service field. Steve -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:29 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] child custody Potential client has Suit Affecting Parent Child Relationship pending in Texas. Potential client is granted Possessory Conservatorship with the Family Code standard visitation of first, third and fifth weekends of the month. However, potential client is blind, the child is a 19 month old daughter and the Court has conditioned his possession of the child on him having sighted assistance by any competent adult during his periods of possession. Potential client asks whether the condition of possession violates any concepts of discrimination pursuant to the Americans With Disabilities Act. I would appreciate any thoughts you have. Thank you. Daniel McBride, Attorney Fort Worth, Texas _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne t _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40emplmntattor ney.com From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Fri Dec 14 04:17:14 2012 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 04:17:14 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] [BULK] Re: child custody In-Reply-To: <01bc01cdd9a5$99631090$cc2931b0$@sbcglobal.net> References: <01ab01cdd9a2$b9686b90$2c3942b0$@sbcglobal.net> <000001cdd9a4$d4000f10$7c002d30$@charter.net>, <01bc01cdd9a5$99631090$cc2931b0$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <63442854-5E7C-4CF9-A579-3901879ED043@stmarytx.edu> Mr. McBride keep in mind that I'm just a juris doctor so cannot practice law yet however something that I would do if I were practicing in this case is first what does the court order actually say second was the noncustodial parent default against invest the only reason that they've custodial parent got supervised visits is because they ask for it and the other party was not present you contestant number three the presumption in Texas is that both parents should be joined conservators although this presumption can Bieber budded if there's ample evidence to show the court that it is in the best interest of the child that sole conservatorship and possessory conservator ship be ordered what was the reasoning of the court to award sole conservatorship to the custodial parent and possessory conservator ship to the noncustodial parent just some food for thought now back to studying for the barge Sent from my iPhone On Dec 13, 2012, at 20:49, "Daniel McBride" wrote: > There are no other issues. The sole issue is his blindness and the child's > age. > > Further, it would be more accurate to refer to the condition of possession > as "chaperone" than "supervision". A subtle distinction I know, but a > distinction nonetheless. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven > Johnson > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:44 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] child custody > > Out of curiosity, is there any other Child Protective History with this > potential client? Take out the blind aspect, is there anything else that > has been provided that would suggest that supervised visits are necessary? > For example, Hx of drug, alcohol or other substance use, maltreatment at any > level, a criminal background that could suggest that such supervision is > necessary? > > I am not a lega expert, but I do work in the Child Protective Service field. > > Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel > McBride > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:29 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] child custody > > Potential client has Suit Affecting Parent Child Relationship pending in > Texas. Potential client is granted Possessory Conservatorship with the > Family Code standard visitation of first, third and fifth weekends of the > month. > > > > However, potential client is blind, the child is a 19 month old daughter and > the Court has conditioned his possession of the child on him having sighted > assistance by any competent adult during his periods of possession. > Potential client asks whether the condition of possession violates any > concepts of discrimination pursuant to the Americans With Disabilities Act. > > > > I would appreciate any thoughts you have. Thank you. > > > > Daniel McBride, Attorney > > Fort Worth, Texas > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne > t > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu From attorney at alcidonislaw.com Fri Dec 14 04:45:58 2012 From: attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Alcidonis Law Office) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 23:45:58 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] [BULK] Re: child custody In-Reply-To: <63442854-5E7C-4CF9-A579-3901879ED043@stmarytx.edu> References: <01ab01cdd9a2$b9686b90$2c3942b0$@sbcglobal.net><000001cdd9a4$d4000f10$7c002d30$@charter.net>, <01bc01cdd9a5$99631090$cc2931b0$@sbcglobal.net> <63442854-5E7C-4CF9-A579-3901879ED043@stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: Daniel Look at your statute and case law carefully. In PA for example, the court is permitted to consider the "physical and mental" condition of the parent in a custody matter. As you can imagine, in a case where blindness is involved, this may go in multiple directions depending on who is on the bench, and who is representing the parent. So, you might have a situation where you might have to file a petition to modify the custody order an develop your evidence more in live testimony. Check your local rules, of course. As an alternative, if you are procedurally still within the timeline, file a motion for reconsideration and present testimony in support of your motion at the hearing. But the first thing you will have to do as an effective attorney litigator, is to look at the statute and related case law to see whether there are some merit to the court's legal reasoning -- not simply blindness is the cause of the order. Try to distance your personal opinion about what a blind person can do or cannot do in these cases, and challenge the court's reasoning for what it's worth, and develop an approach to attack it in argument. Rod Alcidonis, Esquire. Licensed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. -----Original Message----- From: Dittman, Robert Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 11:17 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] Re: child custody Mr. McBride keep in mind that I'm just a juris doctor so cannot practice law yet however something that I would do if I were practicing in this case is first what does the court order actually say second was the noncustodial parent default against invest the only reason that they've custodial parent got supervised visits is because they ask for it and the other party was not present you contestant number three the presumption in Texas is that both parents should be joined conservators although this presumption can Bieber budded if there's ample evidence to show the court that it is in the best interest of the child that sole conservatorship and possessory conservator ship be ordered what was the reasoning of the court to award sole conservatorship to the custodial parent and possessory conservator ship to the noncustodial parent just some food for thought now back to studying for the barge Sent from my iPhone On Dec 13, 2012, at 20:49, "Daniel McBride" wrote: > There are no other issues. The sole issue is his blindness and the > child's > age. > > Further, it would be more accurate to refer to the condition of possession > as "chaperone" than "supervision". A subtle distinction I know, but a > distinction nonetheless. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven > Johnson > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:44 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] child custody > > Out of curiosity, is there any other Child Protective History with this > potential client? Take out the blind aspect, is there anything else that > has been provided that would suggest that supervised visits are necessary? > For example, Hx of drug, alcohol or other substance use, maltreatment at > any > level, a criminal background that could suggest that such supervision is > necessary? > > I am not a lega expert, but I do work in the Child Protective Service > field. > > Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel > McBride > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:29 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] child custody > > Potential client has Suit Affecting Parent Child Relationship pending in > Texas. Potential client is granted Possessory Conservatorship with the > Family Code standard visitation of first, third and fifth weekends of the > month. > > > > However, potential client is blind, the child is a 19 month old daughter > and > the Court has conditioned his possession of the child on him having > sighted > assistance by any competent adult during his periods of possession. > Potential client asks whether the condition of possession violates any > concepts of discrimination pursuant to the Americans With Disabilities > Act. > > > > I would appreciate any thoughts you have. Thank you. > > > > Daniel McBride, Attorney > > Fort Worth, Texas > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne > t > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com From attorney at alcidonislaw.com Fri Dec 14 04:54:00 2012 From: attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Alcidonis Law Office) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 23:54:00 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] child custody In-Reply-To: <01ab01cdd9a2$b9686b90$2c3942b0$@sbcglobal.net> References: <01ab01cdd9a2$b9686b90$2c3942b0$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Daniel: Another thought: You asked: "Potential client asks whether the condition of possession violates any concepts of discrimination pursuant to the Americans With Disabilities Act." At this point in your analysis, you want to know whether the family code was violated. That's my suggestion in the previous e-mail. If the family code was not followed by the court, then you will seek to remedy the problem in that court. While you are at it there, if the ADA was also violated, that's where you would make the argument that this was also in violation of the ADA. But in my opinion, not knowing Texas family law, it will be a tough argument to make under the ADA because there is no real discrimination here, but an unfavorable court order that is subject to judicial review by an appellate court. Good luck. Rod Alcidonis, Esquire. Licensed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. -----Original Message----- From: Daniel McBride Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 9:28 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] child custody Potential client has Suit Affecting Parent Child Relationship pending in Texas. Potential client is granted Possessory Conservatorship with the Family Code standard visitation of first, third and fifth weekends of the month. However, potential client is blind, the child is a 19 month old daughter and the Court has conditioned his possession of the child on him having sighted assistance by any competent adult during his periods of possession. Potential client asks whether the condition of possession violates any concepts of discrimination pursuant to the Americans With Disabilities Act. I would appreciate any thoughts you have. Thank you. Daniel McBride, Attorney Fort Worth, Texas _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com From craigspencer2.0 at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 10:07:16 2012 From: craigspencer2.0 at gmail.com (Craig Spencer) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 05:07:16 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] child custody In-Reply-To: <01ab01cdd9a2$b9686b90$2c3942b0$@sbcglobal.net> References: <01ab01cdd9a2$b9686b90$2c3942b0$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <002401cdd9e2$ccb60690$662213b0$@gmail.com> Daniel, Before entertaining any ADA violations, I would say that you should first review the record extensively that resulted in the Court's decision. Was there an evidentiary hearing? What was the evidence and testimony against that client? And, as usual, you would have to review the state law to see if the Court conformed to the statute and case law. Usually, the Court must first consider what is in the best interest of the child. Statute and case law would give guidance as to what factors should aid in that determination. Craig Spencer Attorney at Law. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 9:29 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] child custody Potential client has Suit Affecting Parent Child Relationship pending in Texas. Potential client is granted Possessory Conservatorship with the Family Code standard visitation of first, third and fifth weekends of the month. However, potential client is blind, the child is a 19 month old daughter and the Court has conditioned his possession of the child on him having sighted assistance by any competent adult during his periods of possession. Potential client asks whether the condition of possession violates any concepts of discrimination pursuant to the Americans With Disabilities Act. I would appreciate any thoughts you have. Thank you. Daniel McBride, Attorney Fort Worth, Texas _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/craigspencer2.0%40gmai l.com From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Fri Dec 14 15:33:39 2012 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:33:39 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] [BULK] Re: child custody References: <01ab01cdd9a2$b9686b90$2c3942b0$@sbcglobal.net><000001cdd9a4$d4000f10$7c002d30$@charter.net>, <01bc01cdd9a5$99631090$cc2931b0$@sbcglobal.net><63442854-5E7C-4CF9-A579-3901879ED043@stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <000b01cdda10$64a884f0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good morning everyone, While I'm not well versed on the mechanics of child custody law I know the NFB's literature and wish to suggest a publication that could help in this case. It's the brochure: Parenting Without Sight What Attorneys and Social Workers Should Know about Blindness The Brochure is Published by the Blind Parents Interest Group of the National Federation of the Blind. You can find it at: https://nfb.org/Images/nfb/Publications/brochures/BlindParents/ParentingWithoutSight.html Hope this helps. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alcidonis Law Office" To: "Blind Law Mailing List" Cc: "Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] Re: child custody Daniel Look at your statute and case law carefully. In PA for example, the court is permitted to consider the "physical and mental" condition of the parent in a custody matter. As you can imagine, in a case where blindness is involved, this may go in multiple directions depending on who is on the bench, and who is representing the parent. So, you might have a situation where you might have to file a petition to modify the custody order an develop your evidence more in live testimony. Check your local rules, of course. As an alternative, if you are procedurally still within the timeline, file a motion for reconsideration and present testimony in support of your motion at the hearing. But the first thing you will have to do as an effective attorney litigator, is to look at the statute and related case law to see whether there are some merit to the court's legal reasoning -- not simply blindness is the cause of the order. Try to distance your personal opinion about what a blind person can do or cannot do in these cases, and challenge the court's reasoning for what it's worth, and develop an approach to attack it in argument. Rod Alcidonis, Esquire. Licensed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. -----Original Message----- From: Dittman, Robert Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 11:17 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] Re: child custody Mr. McBride keep in mind that I'm just a juris doctor so cannot practice law yet however something that I would do if I were practicing in this case is first what does the court order actually say second was the noncustodial parent default against invest the only reason that they've custodial parent got supervised visits is because they ask for it and the other party was not present you contestant number three the presumption in Texas is that both parents should be joined conservators although this presumption can Bieber budded if there's ample evidence to show the court that it is in the best interest of the child that sole conservatorship and possessory conservator ship be ordered what was the reasoning of the court to award sole conservatorship to the custodial parent and possessory conservator ship to the noncustodial parent just some food for thought now back to studying for the barge Sent from my iPhone On Dec 13, 2012, at 20:49, "Daniel McBride" wrote: > There are no other issues. The sole issue is his blindness and the > child's > age. > > Further, it would be more accurate to refer to the condition of possession > as "chaperone" than "supervision". A subtle distinction I know, but a > distinction nonetheless. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven > Johnson > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:44 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] child custody > > Out of curiosity, is there any other Child Protective History with this > potential client? Take out the blind aspect, is there anything else that > has been provided that would suggest that supervised visits are necessary? > For example, Hx of drug, alcohol or other substance use, maltreatment at > any > level, a criminal background that could suggest that such supervision is > necessary? > > I am not a lega expert, but I do work in the Child Protective Service > field. > > Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel > McBride > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:29 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] child custody > > Potential client has Suit Affecting Parent Child Relationship pending in > Texas. Potential client is granted Possessory Conservatorship with the > Family Code standard visitation of first, third and fifth weekends of the > month. > > > > However, potential client is blind, the child is a 19 month old daughter > and > the Court has conditioned his possession of the child on him having > sighted > assistance by any competent adult during his periods of possession. > Potential client asks whether the condition of possession violates any > concepts of discrimination pursuant to the Americans With Disabilities > Act. > > > > I would appreciate any thoughts you have. Thank you. > > > > Daniel McBride, Attorney > > Fort Worth, Texas > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne > t > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Dec 14 16:36:35 2012 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 10:36:35 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] child custody In-Reply-To: <01ab01cdd9a2$b9686b90$2c3942b0$@sbcglobal.net> References: <01ab01cdd9a2$b9686b90$2c3942b0$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Daniel: The NFB has experience with child custody issues. I suggest you start by talking to your state affiliate president to see if there is any assistance the affiliate can provide in the way of testimony. Noel -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 6:29 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] child custody Potential client has Suit Affecting Parent Child Relationship pending in Texas. Potential client is granted Possessory Conservatorship with the Family Code standard visitation of first, third and fifth weekends of the month. However, potential client is blind, the child is a 19 month old daughter and the Court has conditioned his possession of the child on him having sighted assistance by any competent adult during his periods of possession. Potential client asks whether the condition of possession violates any concepts of discrimination pursuant to the Americans With Disabilities Act. I would appreciate any thoughts you have. Thank you. Daniel McBride, Attorney Fort Worth, Texas _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From steve.jacobson at visi.com Fri Dec 14 23:40:11 2012 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 17:40:11 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] child custody In-Reply-To: <01bc01cdd9a5$99631090$cc2931b0$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Dan, I am also writing as one who is not a lawyer but who has spent some time following cases like this. I am also a blind parent of blind kids and have had to consider my actions with respect to social service agencies. I must echo what I have understood to have been written in response to your inquiry regarding the ADA. To put it more directly, if it is believed, particularly by a judge, that a blind person cannot perform the duties of a parent safely, the ADA will not likely force that judge to respond differently. Those of us in the NFB are very, very concerned that precedence not be set that blindness, by itself, makes a person an unsafe parent. However, the situation can be clouded if the blind parent involved does not have good blindness skills. Someone who cannot travel independently or handle reading materials is not necessarily a bad parent, but it makes it harder to make a case with a judge. It can be essential that we move how a judge looks at blind persons from thinking of all he or she couldn't do if he or she were blind to an understanding that blind people develop techniques that let us do most things that sighted people do, just differently. This can be a hard sell but showing other successful blind persons is a pretty good way to accomplish that. It is very important, as others have said, to be as certain as you can that all evidence that have led to this point is well understood. Getting examples of other successful blind parents may well be your most effective approach. If your client is in need of getting some of his skills of blindness improved, having a plan to do that which can be presented to a judge may also help. It may also be worth contacting our national office to see if there might be materials that can help. Even if a case cannot serve as a precedence, showing how another case was resolved positively may make a difference. If there are gaps in your client's training that can be addressed, this might make any negative decision temporary until the gaps are addressed, and of course, I do not know that there are any gaps. This should normally just not be an issue, but it unfortunately does come up from time to time. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:49:12 -0600, Daniel McBride wrote: >There are no other issues. The sole issue is his blindness and the child's >age. >Further, it would be more accurate to refer to the condition of possession >as "chaperone" than "supervision". A subtle distinction I know, but a >distinction nonetheless. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven >Johnson >Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:44 PM >To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] child custody >Out of curiosity, is there any other Child Protective History with this >potential client? Take out the blind aspect, is there anything else that >has been provided that would suggest that supervised visits are necessary? >For example, Hx of drug, alcohol or other substance use, maltreatment at any >level, a criminal background that could suggest that such supervision is >necessary? >I am not a lega expert, but I do work in the Child Protective Service field. >Steve >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel >McBride >Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:29 PM >To: Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: [blindlaw] child custody >Potential client has Suit Affecting Parent Child Relationship pending in >Texas. Potential client is granted Possessory Conservatorship with the >Family Code standard visitation of first, third and fifth weekends of the >month. > >However, potential client is blind, the child is a 19 month old daughter and >the Court has conditioned his possession of the child on him having sighted >assistance by any competent adult during his periods of possession. >Potential client asks whether the condition of possession violates any >concepts of discrimination pursuant to the Americans With Disabilities Act. > >I would appreciate any thoughts you have. Thank you. > >Daniel McBride, Attorney >Fort Worth, Texas >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne >t >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From rthomas at emplmntattorney.com Sat Dec 15 00:02:04 2012 From: rthomas at emplmntattorney.com (Russell J. Thomas) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:02:04 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] child custody In-Reply-To: References: <01bc01cdd9a5$99631090$cc2931b0$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <003901cdda57$6a7ab910$3f702b30$@com> To follow up on some earlier posts I have made on this issue, if the Court views the extra person as exercising a supervisory rather than an assistive role, then the argument is that having a supervisory person is not in "the best interest" of the child since the child is likely to be confused as to who is his real parent. If the extra person is a supervisor, then the child might view that person as the real authority figure; on the other hand, if the person's role is merely to assist, the child will understand that his parent is his blind father. Regards, RUSSELL J. THOMAS, JR. Principal Attorney Law Office of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: 949-752-0101 F: 949-257-4756 Follow me on Twitter @EmplmntAttorney The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above.  This message may be an attorney-client communication and/or work product and as such is privileged and confidential.  If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 3:40 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] child custody Dan, I am also writing as one who is not a lawyer but who has spent some time following cases like this. I am also a blind parent of blind kids and have had to consider my actions with respect to social service agencies. I must echo what I have understood to have been written in response to your inquiry regarding the ADA. To put it more directly, if it is believed, particularly by a judge, that a blind person cannot perform the duties of a parent safely, the ADA will not likely force that judge to respond differently. Those of us in the NFB are very, very concerned that precedence not be set that blindness, by itself, makes a person an unsafe parent. However, the situation can be clouded if the blind parent involved does not have good blindness skills. Someone who cannot travel independently or handle reading materials is not necessarily a bad parent, but it makes it harder to make a case with a judge. It can be essential that we move how a judge looks at blind persons from thinking of all he or she couldn't do if he or she were blind to an understanding that blind people develop techniques that let us do most things that sighted people do, just differently. This can be a hard sell but showing other successful blind persons is a pretty good way to accomplish that. It is very important, as others have said, to be as certain as you can that all evidence that have led to this point is well understood. Getting examples of other successful blind parents may well be your most effective approach. If your client is in need of getting some of his skills of blindness improved, having a plan to do that which can be presented to a judge may also help. It may also be worth contacting our national office to see if there might be materials that can help. Even if a case cannot serve as a precedence, showing how another case was resolved positively may make a difference. If there are gaps in your client's training that can be addressed, this might make any negative decision temporary until the gaps are addressed, and of course, I do not know that there are any gaps. This should normally just not be an issue, but it unfortunately does come up from time to time. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:49:12 -0600, Daniel McBride wrote: >There are no other issues. The sole issue is his blindness and the >child's age. >Further, it would be more accurate to refer to the condition of >possession as "chaperone" than "supervision". A subtle distinction I >know, but a distinction nonetheless. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven >Johnson >Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:44 PM >To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] child custody >Out of curiosity, is there any other Child Protective History with this >potential client? Take out the blind aspect, is there anything else >that has been provided that would suggest that supervised visits are necessary? >For example, Hx of drug, alcohol or other substance use, maltreatment >at any level, a criminal background that could suggest that such >supervision is necessary? >I am not a lega expert, but I do work in the Child Protective Service field. >Steve >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel >McBride >Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:29 PM >To: Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: [blindlaw] child custody >Potential client has Suit Affecting Parent Child Relationship pending >in Texas. Potential client is granted Possessory Conservatorship with >the Family Code standard visitation of first, third and fifth weekends >of the month. > >However, potential client is blind, the child is a 19 month old >daughter and the Court has conditioned his possession of the child on >him having sighted assistance by any competent adult during his periods of possession. >Potential client asks whether the condition of possession violates any >concepts of discrimination pursuant to the Americans With Disabilities Act. > >I would appreciate any thoughts you have. Thank you. > >Daniel McBride, Attorney >Fort Worth, Texas >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40chart >er.ne >t >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcgloba >l.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40 >visi.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40emplmntattor ney.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat Dec 15 00:23:02 2012 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:23:02 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] child custody In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As a former social Worker another way to deal with this would be to go along with the supervised visits for a period of time where the blind parent can have an opportunity to prove himself and his skills as these visits are monitored and the cases are reviewed by the court periodically. It is still surprising but there are still many judges that will have concerns about young children at the toddler stage having visits with their fathers that are still unsupervised as the old stereotype still exists that young children do best with their mothers. Another question is the reputation of the judge handling the case as well as how family laws are handled in the particular county. You also need to consider the pressure and negative publicity that occurs against CPS agencies when mistakes occur and children are victimized so in many cases they tend to proceed with caution. While recognizing the rights of disabled parents has taken in some states like California it probably hasn't been officially codified in other states. Chuck Krugman MSW. Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/chuck-krugman/b/357/722 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jacobson" To: "Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] child custody > Dan, > > I am also writing as one who is not a lawyer but who has spent some time > following cases like this. I am also a blind parent of blind kids and > have had to consider my actions with respect to social service > agencies. > > I must echo what I have understood to have been written in response to > your inquiry regarding the ADA. To put it more directly, if it is > believed, particularly by a judge, that a blind person cannot perform the > duties of a parent safely, the ADA will not likely force that judge to > respond differently. Those of us in the NFB are very, very concerned that > precedence not be set that blindness, by itself, makes a person an > unsafe parent. However, the situation can be clouded if the blind parent > involved does not have good blindness skills. Someone who cannot travel > independently or handle reading materials is not necessarily > a bad parent, but it makes it harder to make a case with a judge. It can > be essential that we move how a judge looks at blind persons from thinking > of all he or she couldn't do if he or she were blind to an > understanding that blind people develop techniques that let us do most > things that sighted people do, just differently. This can be a hard sell > but showing other successful blind persons is a pretty good way to > accomplish that. > > It is very important, as others have said, to be as certain as you can > that all evidence that have led to this point is well understood. Getting > examples of other successful blind parents may well be your most > effective approach. If your client is in need of getting some of his > skills of blindness improved, having a plan to do that which can be > presented to a judge may also help. It may also be worth contacting our > national office to see if there might be materials that can help. Even if > a case cannot serve as a precedence, showing how another case was resolved > positively may make a difference. If there are gaps in > your client's training that can be addressed, this might make any negative > decision temporary until the gaps are addressed, and of course, I do not > know that there are any gaps. This should normally just not > be an issue, but it unfortunately does come up from time to time. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:49:12 -0600, Daniel McBride wrote: > >>There are no other issues. The sole issue is his blindness and the >>child's >>age. > >>Further, it would be more accurate to refer to the condition of possession >>as "chaperone" than "supervision". A subtle distinction I know, but a >>distinction nonetheless. > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven >>Johnson >>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:44 PM >>To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] child custody > >>Out of curiosity, is there any other Child Protective History with this >>potential client? Take out the blind aspect, is there anything else that >>has been provided that would suggest that supervised visits are necessary? >>For example, Hx of drug, alcohol or other substance use, maltreatment at >>any >>level, a criminal background that could suggest that such supervision is >>necessary? > >>I am not a lega expert, but I do work in the Child Protective Service >>field. > >>Steve > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel >>McBride >>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:29 PM >>To: Blind Law Mailing List >>Subject: [blindlaw] child custody > >>Potential client has Suit Affecting Parent Child Relationship pending in >>Texas. Potential client is granted Possessory Conservatorship with the >>Family Code standard visitation of first, third and fifth weekends of the >>month. > >> > >>However, potential client is blind, the child is a 19 month old daughter >>and >>the Court has conditioned his possession of the child on him having >>sighted >>assistance by any competent adult during his periods of possession. >>Potential client asks whether the condition of possession violates any >>concepts of discrimination pursuant to the Americans With Disabilities >>Act. > >> > >>I would appreciate any thoughts you have. Thank you. > >> > >>Daniel McBride, Attorney > >>Fort Worth, Texas > >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne >>t > > >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net > > >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net Sat Dec 15 02:17:51 2012 From: dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net (Daniel McBride) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 20:17:51 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] child custody Message-ID: <016901cdda6a$63341a80$299c4f80$@sbcglobal.net> I wish to thank you all for your input on the post I made yesterday. All comments have been valuable. Dan McBride, Attorney Fort Worth, Texas From attorney at alcidonislaw.com Sat Dec 15 03:27:54 2012 From: attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Alcidonis Law Office) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 22:27:54 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] child custody In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30A069FA15D54016A3A82812B237899B@RodPC> Chuck: This might be a good social work oriented approach but it is, sorry should I say as one who practices family law, not good legal advice. I recognize that it is well-intended but he does not want his client do this at all. One should never let a court order stand if it does not have legs on which to do so. Your client does not want to set this precedent. You would essentially be acknowledging that it is not in the best interest of the child for your client to have unsupervised visitation at this time. You should first challenge the court's factual finding in issuing the order, and if your analysis leads you to the conclusion that your client is indeed lacking in her parenting skills, then deal with it at that time. Do not allow your client to follow the order just to be able to prove at a later time that the ruling was incorrect. You will need a substantial change in circumstances argument to ever be able to modify that order, a very tough standard. Good luck. Rod Alcidonis, Esquire. Licensed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. -----Original Message----- From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:23 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] child custody As a former social Worker another way to deal with this would be to go along with the supervised visits for a period of time where the blind parent can have an opportunity to prove himself and his skills as these visits are monitored and the cases are reviewed by the court periodically. It is still surprising but there are still many judges that will have concerns about young children at the toddler stage having visits with their fathers that are still unsupervised as the old stereotype still exists that young children do best with their mothers. Another question is the reputation of the judge handling the case as well as how family laws are handled in the particular county. You also need to consider the pressure and negative publicity that occurs against CPS agencies when mistakes occur and children are victimized so in many cases they tend to proceed with caution. While recognizing the rights of disabled parents has taken in some states like California it probably hasn't been officially codified in other states. Chuck Krugman MSW. Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/chuck-krugman/b/357/722 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jacobson" To: "Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] child custody > Dan, > > I am also writing as one who is not a lawyer but who has spent some time > following cases like this. I am also a blind parent of blind kids and > have had to consider my actions with respect to social service > agencies. > > I must echo what I have understood to have been written in response to > your inquiry regarding the ADA. To put it more directly, if it is > believed, particularly by a judge, that a blind person cannot perform the > duties of a parent safely, the ADA will not likely force that judge to > respond differently. Those of us in the NFB are very, very concerned that > precedence not be set that blindness, by itself, makes a person an > unsafe parent. However, the situation can be clouded if the blind parent > involved does not have good blindness skills. Someone who cannot travel > independently or handle reading materials is not necessarily > a bad parent, but it makes it harder to make a case with a judge. It can > be essential that we move how a judge looks at blind persons from thinking > of all he or she couldn't do if he or she were blind to an > understanding that blind people develop techniques that let us do most > things that sighted people do, just differently. This can be a hard sell > but showing other successful blind persons is a pretty good way to > accomplish that. > > It is very important, as others have said, to be as certain as you can > that all evidence that have led to this point is well understood. Getting > examples of other successful blind parents may well be your most > effective approach. If your client is in need of getting some of his > skills of blindness improved, having a plan to do that which can be > presented to a judge may also help. It may also be worth contacting our > national office to see if there might be materials that can help. Even if > a case cannot serve as a precedence, showing how another case was resolved > positively may make a difference. If there are gaps in > your client's training that can be addressed, this might make any negative > decision temporary until the gaps are addressed, and of course, I do not > know that there are any gaps. This should normally just not > be an issue, but it unfortunately does come up from time to time. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:49:12 -0600, Daniel McBride wrote: > >>There are no other issues. The sole issue is his blindness and the >>child's >>age. > >>Further, it would be more accurate to refer to the condition of possession >>as "chaperone" than "supervision". A subtle distinction I know, but a >>distinction nonetheless. > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven >>Johnson >>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:44 PM >>To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] child custody > >>Out of curiosity, is there any other Child Protective History with this >>potential client? Take out the blind aspect, is there anything else that >>has been provided that would suggest that supervised visits are necessary? >>For example, Hx of drug, alcohol or other substance use, maltreatment at >>any >>level, a criminal background that could suggest that such supervision is >>necessary? > >>I am not a lega expert, but I do work in the Child Protective Service >>field. > >>Steve > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel >>McBride >>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:29 PM >>To: Blind Law Mailing List >>Subject: [blindlaw] child custody > >>Potential client has Suit Affecting Parent Child Relationship pending in >>Texas. Potential client is granted Possessory Conservatorship with the >>Family Code standard visitation of first, third and fifth weekends of the >>month. > >> > >>However, potential client is blind, the child is a 19 month old daughter >>and >>the Court has conditioned his possession of the child on him having >>sighted >>assistance by any competent adult during his periods of possession. >>Potential client asks whether the condition of possession violates any >>concepts of discrimination pursuant to the Americans With Disabilities >>Act. > >> > >>I would appreciate any thoughts you have. Thank you. > >> > >>Daniel McBride, Attorney > >>Fort Worth, Texas > >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne >>t > > >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net > > >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com From schorschj at comcast.net Sat Dec 15 05:21:46 2012 From: schorschj at comcast.net (Jon Schorsch) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 21:21:46 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001e01cdda84$14bc85d0$3e359170$@net> Chris, I am a second year law student at Seattle University and use JAWS with West Law Next exclusively. I am recently blind from an accident and I am still learning all of the fine details of using JAWS, but I find that I have very little trouble researching and finding specific issues. When I first started school, I sat down with the West Law trainer and he recommended West Law Next over West Law because he said it was a little more straight forward than West Law. Hope this helps. Jon Schorsch Jon Schorsch -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jeckel, Christopher Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 8:16 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers Hey Gang, So the tech support folks at G.W. Micro have explained to me that the function on WindowEyes which allows a user to hover the mouse over text for audio feedback will most likely not be compatible with most online browsers in a few years. Reason being is because of the new way Microsoft is writing code for windows. The program will still work fine, just not with the hover function. What this means for me and other partially sighted WindowEyes users is that we will have to learn how to use WindowEyes or Jaws only using the key commands, hot keys etc. My question for you all is when doing legal research, have you found any particular combination of Jaws or WindowEyes with Lexis or WestLaw to be the most efficient? Do you find one legal database easier to navigate with a screen reader than the other using key commands, hot keys, etc.? Love you guys, Chris _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/schorschj%40comcast.ne t From angie.matney at gmail.com Sat Dec 15 08:51:07 2012 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 03:51:07 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] child custody In-Reply-To: <30A069FA15D54016A3A82812B237899B@RodPC> References: <30A069FA15D54016A3A82812B237899B@RodPC> Message-ID: Everyone: Below is a link to an Indiana Court of Appeals case in which the court reversed a similar order. Also, this case lends support to Rod's point that going along with the order would be a mistake. The blind father in this case offered to hire a nanny, then claimed the court should not have required him to do so. The court pointed out that he invited the alleged error. http://law.justia.com/cases/indiana/court-of-appeals/2000/03100003-jgb.html Angie On 12/14/12, Alcidonis Law Office wrote: > Chuck: > > This might be a good social work oriented approach but it is, sorry should I > > say as one who practices family law, not good legal advice. I recognize that > > it is well-intended but he does not want his client do this at all. > > One should never let a court order stand if it does not have legs on which > to do so. Your client does not want to set this precedent. You would > essentially be acknowledging that it is not in the best interest of the > child for your client to have unsupervised visitation at this time. You > should first challenge the court's factual finding in issuing the order, and > > if your analysis leads you to the conclusion that your client is indeed > lacking in her parenting skills, then deal with it at that time. Do not > allow your client to follow the order just to be able to prove at a later > time that the ruling was incorrect. You will need a substantial change in > circumstances argument to ever be able to modify that order, a very tough > standard. > > Good luck. > > Rod Alcidonis, Esquire. > Licensed in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. > > -----Original Message----- > From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:23 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] child custody > > As a former social Worker another way to deal with this would be to go > along > with the supervised visits for a period of time where the blind parent can > have an opportunity to prove himself and his skills as these visits are > monitored and the cases are reviewed by the court periodically. It is still > surprising but there are still many judges that will have concerns about > young children at the toddler stage having visits with their fathers that > are still unsupervised as the old stereotype still exists that young > children do best with their mothers. Another question is the reputation of > the judge handling the case as well as how family laws are handled in the > particular county. You also need to consider the pressure and negative > publicity that occurs against CPS agencies when mistakes occur and children > are victimized so in many cases they tend to proceed with caution. While > recognizing the rights of disabled parents has taken in some states like > California it probably hasn't been officially codified in other states. > Chuck Krugman MSW. Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > http://www.linkedin.com/pub/chuck-krugman/b/357/722 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Jacobson" > To: "Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 3:40 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] child custody > > >> Dan, >> >> I am also writing as one who is not a lawyer but who has spent some time >> following cases like this. I am also a blind parent of blind kids and >> have had to consider my actions with respect to social service >> agencies. >> >> I must echo what I have understood to have been written in response to >> your inquiry regarding the ADA. To put it more directly, if it is >> believed, particularly by a judge, that a blind person cannot perform the >> duties of a parent safely, the ADA will not likely force that judge to >> respond differently. Those of us in the NFB are very, very concerned that >> >> precedence not be set that blindness, by itself, makes a person an >> unsafe parent. However, the situation can be clouded if the blind parent >> >> involved does not have good blindness skills. Someone who cannot travel >> independently or handle reading materials is not necessarily >> a bad parent, but it makes it harder to make a case with a judge. It can >> >> be essential that we move how a judge looks at blind persons from thinking >> >> of all he or she couldn't do if he or she were blind to an >> understanding that blind people develop techniques that let us do most >> things that sighted people do, just differently. This can be a hard sell >> >> but showing other successful blind persons is a pretty good way to >> accomplish that. >> >> It is very important, as others have said, to be as certain as you can >> that all evidence that have led to this point is well understood. Getting >> >> examples of other successful blind parents may well be your most >> effective approach. If your client is in need of getting some of his >> skills of blindness improved, having a plan to do that which can be >> presented to a judge may also help. It may also be worth contacting our >> national office to see if there might be materials that can help. Even if >> >> a case cannot serve as a precedence, showing how another case was resolved >> >> positively may make a difference. If there are gaps in >> your client's training that can be addressed, this might make any negative >> >> decision temporary until the gaps are addressed, and of course, I do not >> know that there are any gaps. This should normally just not >> be an issue, but it unfortunately does come up from time to time. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson >> >> On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:49:12 -0600, Daniel McBride wrote: >> >>>There are no other issues. The sole issue is his blindness and the >>>child's >>>age. >> >>>Further, it would be more accurate to refer to the condition of >>> possession >>>as "chaperone" than "supervision". A subtle distinction I know, but a >>>distinction nonetheless. >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven >>>Johnson >>>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:44 PM >>>To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] child custody >> >>>Out of curiosity, is there any other Child Protective History with this >>>potential client? Take out the blind aspect, is there anything else that >>>has been provided that would suggest that supervised visits are >>> necessary? >>>For example, Hx of drug, alcohol or other substance use, maltreatment at >>>any >>>level, a criminal background that could suggest that such supervision is >>>necessary? >> >>>I am not a lega expert, but I do work in the Child Protective Service >>>field. >> >>>Steve >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel >>>McBride >>>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:29 PM >>>To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>Subject: [blindlaw] child custody >> >>>Potential client has Suit Affecting Parent Child Relationship pending in >>>Texas. Potential client is granted Possessory Conservatorship with the >>>Family Code standard visitation of first, third and fifth weekends of the >>>month. >> >>> >> >>>However, potential client is blind, the child is a 19 month old daughter >>>and >>>the Court has conditioned his possession of the child on him having >>>sighted >>>assistance by any competent adult during his periods of possession. >>>Potential client asks whether the condition of possession violates any >>>concepts of discrimination pursuant to the Americans With Disabilities >>>Act. >> >>> >> >>>I would appreciate any thoughts you have. Thank you. >> >>> >> >>>Daniel McBride, Attorney >> >>>Fort Worth, Texas >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>blindlaw mailing list >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>blindlaw: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne >>>t >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>blindlaw mailing list >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>blindlaw: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>blindlaw mailing list >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>blindlaw: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com > From hopeing662 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 15 16:12:33 2012 From: hopeing662 at yahoo.com (Scott Cavna) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 08:12:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] Seeking free advice Ohio Randolph Sheppard civl suit Message-ID: <1355587953.89176.YahooMailClassic@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Hello     I know somone who went thru the Ohio Randolph Sheppard program. After training the state offered to put him into a facility with a history of failure. Not seeing many other options he took the state up on the offer.  Not surprisingly as a newbie he was unable to turn the business around.  The state is now taking him to court to recover the start-up inventory they had invested and was subsequently lost by the failing business.    I'm sure it would be easy for some on this list to be critical of this guy for not being able to re-pay the vendors program.  However I respectfully suggest that it is easy to criticize when you don't have to walk in someone elses situation.      Anyway legal aid won't help since it is a civil case, so this guy is going to attempt to take on the state in civil court by himself.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  We are attempting to use the argument that the state should be liable for the star-up inventory cost since they set-up the newbie vendor in a facility they knew was a failure.      Apologize for the cross posting, But I will probably post this to the vendors list as well.                    Thanks        .  From pattichang at att.net Sat Dec 15 16:53:35 2012 From: pattichang at att.net (Gregory Chang Patti) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 10:53:35 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Seeking free advice Ohio Randolph Sheppard civl suit In-Reply-To: <1355587953.89176.YahooMailClassic@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1355587953.89176.YahooMailClassic@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <437B93A1-E422-40B2-8726-8727F9DEAE75@att.net> Have you contacted Mickey geckos with the national Association of blind merchants? Patti S. Gregory-Chang NFB Scholarship Comm. Chair Sent from my iPhone On Dec 15, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Scott Cavna wrote: > Hello > I know somone who went thru the Ohio Randolph Sheppard program. After training the state offered to put him into a facility with a history of failure. Not seeing many other options he took the state up on the offer. Not surprisingly as a newbie he was unable to turn the business around. The state is now taking him to court to recover the start-up inventory they had invested and was subsequently lost by the failing business. > I'm sure it would be easy for some on this list to be critical of this guy for not being able to re-pay the vendors program. However I respectfully suggest that it is easy to criticize when you don't have to walk in someone elses situation. > Anyway legal aid won't help since it is a civil case, so this guy is going to attempt to take on the state in civil court by himself. Any suggestions would be appreciated. We are attempting to use the argument that the state should be liable for the star-up inventory cost since they set-up the newbie vendor in a facility they knew was a failure. > Apologize for the cross posting, But I will probably post this to the vendors list as well. > Thanks > . > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 16 08:09:55 2012 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 00:09:55 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Seeking free advice Ohio Randolph Sheppard civl suit In-Reply-To: <1355587953.89176.YahooMailClassic@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1355587953.89176.YahooMailClassic@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53540B292F9E47D7A0841200B1CF2802@Spike> Of late there have been many issues in several states regarding the administration of the Randolph Shepard program by the state rehab agencies. I know that there have been issues here in California and I would recommend working through the state affiliate and national NFB to address the issues. Chuck Krugman, MSW Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/chuck-krugman/b/357/722 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Cavna" To: Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 8:12 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Seeking free advice Ohio Randolph Sheppard civl suit Hello I know somone who went thru the Ohio Randolph Sheppard program. After training the state offered to put him into a facility with a history of failure. Not seeing many other options he took the state up on the offer. Not surprisingly as a newbie he was unable to turn the business around. The state is now taking him to court to recover the start-up inventory they had invested and was subsequently lost by the failing business. I'm sure it would be easy for some on this list to be critical of this guy for not being able to re-pay the vendors program. However I respectfully suggest that it is easy to criticize when you don't have to walk in someone elses situation. Anyway legal aid won't help since it is a civil case, so this guy is going to attempt to take on the state in civil court by himself. Any suggestions would be appreciated. We are attempting to use the argument that the state should be liable for the star-up inventory cost since they set-up the newbie vendor in a facility they knew was a failure. Apologize for the cross posting, But I will probably post this to the vendors list as well. Thanks . _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Sun Dec 16 12:52:35 2012 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 06:52:35 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane Message-ID: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good morning everyone, An who belonged to our Florida Affiliate recently moved to San Antonio and wishes to join our chapter. This person is totally blind and absolutely refuses to use a cane. They recently showed up at our Christmas party and had to be helped in to and out of the meeting room we used for this event. Members were surprised when they discovered that this person showed up without their cane. When later questioned about this the person began giving us all manner of excuse. They told us that their neurologist and past O&M instructors recommended against the use of the cane due to this person's having seizures. This individual attended Perkins along with a number of other schools for the blind. I know for a fact that at least while at Perkins this individual lived in a cottage with another person who also has seizures and is one of the best travelers I know. Like this person, the confident cane user is totally blind and is someone I came to know well. The individual in question undoubtedly met many other successful blind cane users with other disabilities. I myself have seizures and sleep apnea and use both a cane and a dog depending on the situation. The individual refusing to use their cane has all ready been told by several members in the area that if they wish to visit them the/she must bring their cane and use it to get from their transportation in to our residence and if necessary use the cane during their visit. When attempting to reason with the person in question members have been accused of "Bullying" them and have heard all excuses in the book why he/she cannot use a cane proficiently. The individual has been told that neurologists are not qualified to determine whether or not the use of a travel aid can effect one's seizures. The evidence to the contrary is over whelmingly against this horsepuckey. As we also know not all blindness professionals have true belief in the capabilities of the blind. This individual obviously had a few such persons in their life to sell them short on their ability to travel independently and on the importance of using a cane or a dog. The individual has been told that if they show up at any of our homes without their cane we will call them a cab and promptly send them home at their expense something they can avoid simply by listening to reason and using their cane whenever traveling. We're busy people. The last thing we need to have to do is take someone to the emergency room when we know that an individual has complete disregard for their personal safety and as negligent. It seems like direct threat provisions of the ADA may apply in this situation where public venues are concerned. The lawyers can help us wit this one. We want to help this person achieve a higher degree of independence and be an active member of our chapter. While we won't prohibit them from joining us they'll be a more effective contributor to the cause if they would embrace the alternative techniques of blindness and use them regularly. Thanks for your help and suggestions. Peter Donahue “No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper.” Isaiah 54:17 “While for our princes they prepare In caverns deep a burning snare, He shot from heaven a piercing ray, And the dark treachery brought to day.” Anonymous From wmodnl at hotmail.com Sun Dec 16 13:08:16 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 08:08:16 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Let he/she learn the hard way. Do not bring it up, and have them make a decision on there own. A study was done, of children who were dependent on parents due to their disabilities. The study showed, with less prompting and avoidance from staff, parents, etc, they figured things out. Once the parents arrived, many of the dependent behaviers started up again. Sadly, this person will learn the hard way. It only will take 1 silent car, or a stranger assuming they are sited. I know one thing, that cane has helped when in public, since people usually understand why you are asking for directions, or needing other help. Sent from my iPad On Dec 16, 2012, at 7:54 AM, "Peter Donahue" wrote: > Good morning everyone, > > An who belonged to our Florida Affiliate recently moved to San Antonio > and wishes to join our chapter. This person is totally blind and absolutely > refuses to use a cane. They recently showed up at our Christmas party and > had to be helped in to and out of the meeting room we used for this event. > Members were surprised when they discovered that this person showed up > without their cane. When later questioned about this the person began giving > us all manner of excuse. They told us that their neurologist and past O&M > instructors recommended against the use of the cane due to this person's > having seizures. This individual attended Perkins along with a number of > other schools for the blind. I know for a fact that at least while at > Perkins this individual lived in a cottage with another person who also has > seizures and is one of the best travelers I know. Like this person, the > confident cane user is totally blind and is someone I came to know well. The > individual in question undoubtedly met many other successful blind cane > users with other disabilities. I myself have seizures and sleep apnea and > use both a cane and a dog depending on the situation. > > The individual refusing to use their cane has all ready been told by > several members in the area that if they wish to visit them the/she must > bring their cane and use it to get from their transportation in to our > residence and if necessary use the cane during their visit. > > When attempting to reason with the person in question members have been > accused of "Bullying" them and have heard all excuses in the book why he/she > cannot use a cane proficiently. The individual has been told that > neurologists are not qualified to determine whether or not the use of a > travel aid can effect one's seizures. The evidence to the contrary is over > whelmingly against this horsepuckey. As we also know not all blindness > professionals have true belief in the capabilities of the blind. This > individual obviously had a few such persons in their life to sell them short > on their ability to travel independently and on the importance of using a > cane or a dog. The individual has been told that if they show up at any of > our homes without their cane we will call them a cab and promptly send them > home at their expense something they can avoid simply by listening to reason > and using their cane whenever traveling. We're busy people. The last thing > we need to have to do is take someone to the emergency room when we know > that an individual has complete disregard for their personal safety and as > negligent. It seems like direct threat provisions of the ADA may apply in > this situation where public venues are concerned. The lawyers can help us > wit this one. > > We want to help this person achieve a higher degree of independence and > be an active member of our chapter. While we won't prohibit them from > joining us they'll be a more effective contributor to the cause if they > would embrace the alternative techniques of blindness and use them > regularly. Thanks for your help and suggestions. > > > Peter Donahue > > “No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper.” > Isaiah 54:17 > > “While for our princes they prepare > In caverns deep a burning snare, > He shot from heaven a piercing ray, > And the dark treachery brought to day.” > Anonymous > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From johnrsheehan at yahoo.com Sun Dec 16 14:15:26 2012 From: johnrsheehan at yahoo.com (John Sheehan) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 06:15:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Sounds like this person has been pressured and bullied in their life - I'm not sure that more bullying, no matter how well meant, is going to help.You can refuse to do things for them that they should be able to do themselves - but being with people who are independent will teach the lesson of the need for O&M training more effectively thansending them home in a cab.    Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ Chairman Xavier Society for the Blind Web Site: www.xaviersocietyfortheblind.org 154 E. 23rd St NYC 10010 212 473-7800, ext 119 Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you. Residence: 53 E 83rd St New York, NY 10028 Room Phone: 212 606-3423 (Note the new phone #)  Cell: 646 853-1820 Blog: www.frjohnsj.blogspot.com ________________________________ From: Peter Donahue To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org Cc: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List ; Daniel Carr ; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List ; NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:52 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane Good morning everyone,     An who belonged to our Florida Affiliate recently moved to San Antonio and wishes to join our chapter. This person is totally blind and absolutely refuses to use a cane. They recently showed up at our Christmas party and had to be helped in to and out of the meeting room we used for this event. Members were surprised when they discovered that this person showed up without their cane. When later questioned about this the person began giving us all manner of excuse. They told us that their neurologist and past O&M instructors recommended against the use of the cane due to this person's having seizures. This individual attended Perkins along with a number of other schools for the blind. I know for a fact that at least while at Perkins this individual lived in a cottage with another person who also has seizures and is one of the best travelers I know. Like this person, the confident cane user is totally blind and is someone I came to know well. The individual in question undoubtedly met many other successful blind cane users with other disabilities. I myself have seizures and sleep apnea and use both a cane and a dog depending on the situation.     The individual refusing to use their cane has all ready been told by several members in the area that if they wish to visit them the/she must bring their cane and use it to get from their transportation in to our residence and if necessary use the cane during their visit.     When attempting to reason with the person in question members have been accused of "Bullying" them and have heard all excuses in the book why he/she cannot use a cane proficiently. The individual has been told that neurologists are not qualified to determine whether or not the use of a travel aid can effect one's seizures. The evidence to the contrary is over whelmingly against this horsepuckey. As we also know not all blindness professionals have true belief in the capabilities of the blind. This individual obviously had a few such persons in their life to sell them short on their ability to travel independently and on the importance of using a cane or a dog. The individual has been told that if they show up at any of our homes without their cane we will call them a cab and promptly send them home at their expense something they can avoid simply by listening to reason and using their cane whenever traveling. We're busy people. The last thing we need to have to do is take someone to the emergency room when we know that an individual has complete disregard for their personal safety and as negligent. It seems like direct threat provisions of the ADA may apply in this situation where public venues are concerned. The lawyers can help us wit this one.     We want to help this person achieve a higher degree of independence and be an active member of our chapter. While we won't prohibit them from joining us they'll be a more effective contributor to the cause if they would embrace the alternative techniques of blindness and use them regularly. Thanks for your help and suggestions. Peter Donahue “No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper.” Isaiah 54:17 “While for our princes they prepare In caverns deep a burning snare, He shot from heaven a piercing ray, And the dark treachery brought to day.” Anonymous _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/johnrsheehan%40yahoo.com From pattichang at att.net Sun Dec 16 14:54:06 2012 From: pattichang at att.net (Gregory Chang Patti) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 08:54:06 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: <1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> I agree. I have by example taught much more than by lecture. Ronza Othman and I walked around a lot when she externed with me and it occurs to people after while who travels with more efficiency. She now carries a cane all the time. If I had lectured her I think she would have reacted much differently. Please give to the National Federation of the Blind Annual Appeal by sending to NFBI, c/o Glenn Moore, Treasurer PO Box 1065 Elgin, IL 60121. PS. Find us on Twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi and on facebook by searching on "National Federation of the Blind of Illinois." Patti Gregory Chang Esq. President, NFBI pattichang at att.net On Dec 16, 2012, at 8:15 AM, John Sheehan wrote: Sounds like this person has been pressured and bullied in their life - I'm not sure that more bullying, no matter how well meant, is going to help.You can refuse to do things for them that they should be able to do themselves - but being with people who are independent will teach the lesson of the need for O&M training more effectively thansending them home in a cab. Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ Chairman Xavier Society for the Blind Web Site: www.xaviersocietyfortheblind.org 154 E. 23rd St NYC 10010 212 473-7800, ext 119 Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you. Residence: 53 E 83rd St New York, NY 10028 Room Phone: 212 606-3423 (Note the new phone #) Cell: 646 853-1820 Blog: www.frjohnsj.blogspot.com ________________________________ From: Peter Donahue To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org Cc: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List ; Daniel Carr ; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List ; NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:52 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane Good morning everyone, An who belonged to our Florida Affiliate recently moved to San Antonio and wishes to join our chapter. This person is totally blind and absolutely refuses to use a cane. They recently showed up at our Christmas party and had to be helped in to and out of the meeting room we used for this event. Members were surprised when they discovered that this person showed up without their cane. When later questioned about this the person began giving us all manner of excuse. They told us that their neurologist and past O&M instructors recommended against the use of the cane due to this person's having seizures. This individual attended Perkins along with a number of other schools for the blind. I know for a fact that at least while at Perkins this individual lived in a cottage with another person who also has seizures and is one of the best travelers I know. Like this person, the confident cane user is totally blind and is someone I came to know well. The individual in question undoubtedly met many other successful blind cane users with other disabilities. I myself have seizures and sleep apnea and use both a cane and a dog depending on the situation. The individual refusing to use their cane has all ready been told by several members in the area that if they wish to visit them the/she must bring their cane and use it to get from their transportation in to our residence and if necessary use the cane during their visit. When attempting to reason with the person in question members have been accused of "Bullying" them and have heard all excuses in the book why he/she cannot use a cane proficiently. The individual has been told that neurologists are not qualified to determine whether or not the use of a travel aid can effect one's seizures. The evidence to the contrary is over whelmingly against this horsepuckey. As we also know not all blindness professionals have true belief in the capabilities of the blind. This individual obviously had a few such persons in their life to sell them short on their ability to travel independently and on the importance of using a cane or a dog. The individual has been told that if they show up at any of our homes without their cane we will call them a cab and promptly send them home at their expense something they can avoid simply by listening to reason and using their cane whenever traveling. We're busy people. The last thing we need to have to do is take someone to the emergency room when we know that an individual has complete disregard for their personal safety and as negligent. It seems like direct threat provisions of the ADA may apply in this situation where public venues are concerned. The lawyers can help us wit this one. We want to help this person achieve a higher degree of independence and be an active member of our chapter. While we won't prohibit them from joining us they'll be a more effective contributor to the cause if they would embrace the alternative techniques of blindness and use them regularly. Thanks for your help and suggestions. Peter Donahue “No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper.” Isaiah 54:17 “While for our princes they prepare In caverns deep a burning snare, He shot from heaven a piercing ray, And the dark treachery brought to day.” Anonymous _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/johnrsheehan%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 16 14:59:06 2012 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 06:59:06 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> Message-ID: <385E0E40-FDAB-4471-885D-B43FCEDA07AB@sbcglobal.net> If the person in question had some sort of ethical or moral difference with cane use, this would be much more supportable. I, too, have ethical or personal / social issues with a white cane, but I would never refuse to use one. I hope that, should the person choose to use a different COLOR of cane, he will not be subject to this ostracization. I am glad that a dog was also included multiple times in the original post, as I remember a lot of bias against dogs in past times, and I'm glad to see that apparently not there as much. However, the reasoning that a cane will somehow cause seizures is, as was nicely put, horse hockey. :) Sending him home, even telling him what he *had* to do in terms of cane use, or couching it as an "You're setting a bad example for other blind people," argument, though, I feel, will be less than useful. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home page: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ From pattichang at att.net Sun Dec 16 15:09:56 2012 From: pattichang at att.net (Gregory Chang Patti) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 09:09:56 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: <385E0E40-FDAB-4471-885D-B43FCEDA07AB@sbcglobal.net> References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> <385E0E40-FDAB-4471-885D-B43FCEDA07AB@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <06C75289-CE78-49A1-A257-FEF65FF62D1A@att.net> The use of a different color cane can be problematic. Most white cane laws afford protections to the use of a long white cane. Please give to the National Federation of the Blind Annual Appeal by sending to NFBI, c/o Glenn Moore, Treasurer PO Box 1065 Elgin, IL 60121. PS. Find us on Twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi and on facebook by searching on "National Federation of the Blind of Illinois." Patti Gregory Chang Esq. President, NFBI pattichang at att.net On Dec 16, 2012, at 8:59 AM, Mark BurningHawk wrote: If the person in question had some sort of ethical or moral difference with cane use, this would be much more supportable. I, too, have ethical or personal / social issues with a white cane, but I would never refuse to use one. I hope that, should the person choose to use a different COLOR of cane, he will not be subject to this ostracization. I am glad that a dog was also included multiple times in the original post, as I remember a lot of bias against dogs in past times, and I'm glad to see that apparently not there as much. However, the reasoning that a cane will somehow cause seizures is, as was nicely put, horse hockey. :) Sending him home, even telling him what he *had* to do in terms of cane use, or couching it as an "You're setting a bad example for other blind people," argument, though, I feel, will be less than useful. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home page: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net From pattichang at att.net Sun Dec 16 15:15:47 2012 From: pattichang at att.net (Gregory Chang Patti) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 09:15:47 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] NAGDU and Guide Dog Chapters In-Reply-To: <385E0E40-FDAB-4471-885D-B43FCEDA07AB@sbcglobal.net> References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> <385E0E40-FDAB-4471-885D-B43FCEDA07AB@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On a related note, given the number of NAGDU divisions in state affiliates and the strong promotion of them, I am not sure I understand why the notion that guide dogs are somehow not included persists. We have a very strong NAGDU division, a hotline, and many NAGDU chapters and committees. Illinois is a good example. We are spending much time right now on cab driver and guide dog issues. We have a training packet and have develop strong enough relations with our AGs office to convince them to vigorously enforce the law when a dog handler is denied access to a business. Please give to the National Federation of the Blind Annual Appeal by sending to NFBI, c/o Glenn Moore, Treasurer PO Box 1065 Elgin, IL 60121. PS. Find us on Twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi and on facebook by searching on "National Federation of the Blind of Illinois." Patti Gregory Chang Esq. President, NFBI pattichang at att.net On Dec 16, 2012, at 8:59 AM, Mark BurningHawk wrote: If the person in question had some sort of ethical or moral difference with cane use, this would be much more supportable. I, too, have ethical or personal / social issues with a white cane, but I would never refuse to use one. I hope that, should the person choose to use a different COLOR of cane, he will not be subject to this ostracization. I am glad that a dog was also included multiple times in the original post, as I remember a lot of bias against dogs in past times, and I'm glad to see that apparently not there as much. However, the reasoning that a cane will somehow cause seizures is, as was nicely put, horse hockey. :) Sending him home, even telling him what he *had* to do in terms of cane use, or couching it as an "You're setting a bad example for other blind people," argument, though, I feel, will be less than useful. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home page: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 16 15:17:27 2012 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 07:17:27 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: <06C75289-CE78-49A1-A257-FEF65FF62D1A@att.net> References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> <385E0E40-FDAB-4471-885D-B43FCEDA07AB@sbcglobal.net> <06C75289-CE78-49A1-A257-FEF65FF62D1A@att.net> Message-ID: While I don't think this list is the place to start a spirited debate on canes, I agree with you that a different color cane use is problematic in terms of socialization or integration into the existing system. My own personal stance on it, which I will never attain, due to physical limitations like profound hearing loss, but my own stance on it is that a blind person should develop skills that are so precise and exact that "laws," of any kind, "protecting," the blind person from the rest of the world would not be necessary. I'm a little shocked in fact that the NFB would support a body of law put in place specifically to force accessibility upon the world, specifically for white cane users (a subset of the blind population), rather than encourage members to develop other options that don't require sighted people obey special laws about them. *shrug* oh the abuse I am now going to get.../ Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home page: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Sun Dec 16 15:19:40 2012 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 08:19:40 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> Message-ID: <003201cddba0$c5acaa10$5105fe30$@labarrelaw.com> I echo the commens of my colleagues. I would also suggest that totally blind members of the chapter offer to guide the individual in unfamiliar areas both in the interest of safety and also to demonstrate the effect of good cane travel skills. It is importan to nurture this person, not lecture. This does not mean that we back off our advocacy for use of a cane or dog but the way in which the message is delivered is just as important as the message itself. Best, Scott -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gregory Chang Patti Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:54 AM To: John Sheehan; Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane I agree. I have by example taught much more than by lecture. Ronza Othman and I walked around a lot when she externed with me and it occurs to people after while who travels with more efficiency. She now carries a cane all the time. If I had lectured her I think she would have reacted much differently. Please give to the National Federation of the Blind Annual Appeal by sending to NFBI, c/o Glenn Moore, Treasurer PO Box 1065 Elgin, IL 60121. PS. Find us on Twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi and on facebook by searching on "National Federation of the Blind of Illinois." Patti Gregory Chang Esq. President, NFBI pattichang at att.net On Dec 16, 2012, at 8:15 AM, John Sheehan wrote: Sounds like this person has been pressured and bullied in their life - I'm not sure that more bullying, no matter how well meant, is going to help.You can refuse to do things for them that they should be able to do themselves - but being with people who are independent will teach the lesson of the need for O&M training more effectively thansending them home in a cab. Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ Chairman Xavier Society for the Blind Web Site: www.xaviersocietyfortheblind.org 154 E. 23rd St NYC 10010 212 473-7800, ext 119 Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you. Residence: 53 E 83rd St New York, NY 10028 Room Phone: 212 606-3423 (Note the new phone #) Cell: 646 853-1820 Blog: www.frjohnsj.blogspot.com ________________________________ From: Peter Donahue To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org Cc: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List ; Daniel Carr ; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List ; NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:52 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane Good morning everyone, An who belonged to our Florida Affiliate recently moved to San Antonio and wishes to join our chapter. This person is totally blind and absolutely refuses to use a cane. They recently showed up at our Christmas party and had to be helped in to and out of the meeting room we used for this event. Members were surprised when they discovered that this person showed up without their cane. When later questioned about this the person began giving us all manner of excuse. They told us that their neurologist and past O&M instructors recommended against the use of the cane due to this person's having seizures. This individual attended Perkins along with a number of other schools for the blind. I know for a fact that at least while at Perkins this individual lived in a cottage with another person who also has seizures and is one of the best travelers I know. Like this person, the confident cane user is totally blind and is someone I came to know well. The individual in question undoubtedly met many other successful blind cane users with other disabilities. I myself have seizures and sleep apnea and use both a cane and a dog depending on the situation. The individual refusing to use their cane has all ready been told by several members in the area that if they wish to visit them the/she must bring their cane and use it to get from their transportation in to our residence and if necessary use the cane during their visit. When attempting to reason with the person in question members have been accused of "Bullying" them and have heard all excuses in the book why he/she cannot use a cane proficiently. The individual has been told that neurologists are not qualified to determine whether or not the use of a travel aid can effect one's seizures. The evidence to the contrary is over whelmingly against this horsepuckey. As we also know not all blindness professionals have true belief in the capabilities of the blind. This individual obviously had a few such persons in their life to sell them short on their ability to travel independently and on the importance of using a cane or a dog. The individual has been told that if they show up at any of our homes without their cane we will call them a cab and promptly send them home at their expense something they can avoid simply by listening to reason and using their cane whenever traveling. We're busy people. The last thing we need to have to do is take someone to the emergency room when we know that an individual has complete disregard for their personal safety and as negligent. It seems like direct threat provisions of the ADA may apply in this situation where public venues are concerned. The lawyers can help us wit this one. We want to help this person achieve a higher degree of independence and be an active member of our chapter. While we won't prohibit them from joining us they'll be a more effective contributor to the cause if they would embrace the alternative techniques of blindness and use them regularly. Thanks for your help and suggestions. Peter Donahue "No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper." Isaiah 54:17 "While for our princes they prepare In caverns deep a burning snare, He shot from heaven a piercing ray, And the dark treachery brought to day." Anonymous _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/johnrsheehan%40yahoo.c om _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw. com From pattichang at att.net Sun Dec 16 15:24:23 2012 From: pattichang at att.net (Gregory Chang Patti) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 09:24:23 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> <385E0E40-FDAB-4471-885D-B43FCEDA07AB@sbcglobal.net> <06C75289-CE78-49A1-A257-FEF65FF62D1A@att.net> Message-ID: <7B68EB8A-744A-42BE-875A-2B6F8F2D0B70@att.net> The White Cane laws do much more than you summarize. In Illinois ours specifically prohibits our exclusion based on blindness. I do not think that we can convince society all on our own to stop discriminating. Many laws do more than simply speak to motorists. Please give to the National Federation of the Blind Annual Appeal by sending to NFBI, c/o Glenn Moore, Treasurer PO Box 1065 Elgin, IL 60121. PS. Find us on Twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi and on facebook by searching on "National Federation of the Blind of Illinois." Patti Gregory Chang Esq. President, NFBI pattichang at att.net On Dec 16, 2012, at 9:17 AM, Mark BurningHawk wrote: While I don't think this list is the place to start a spirited debate on canes, I agree with you that a different color cane use is problematic in terms of socialization or integration into the existing system. My own personal stance on it, which I will never attain, due to physical limitations like profound hearing loss, but my own stance on it is that a blind person should develop skills that are so precise and exact that "laws," of any kind, "protecting," the blind person from the rest of the world would not be necessary. I'm a little shocked in fact that the NFB would support a body of law put in place specifically to force accessibility upon the world, specifically for white cane users (a subset of the blind population), rather than encourage members to develop other options that don't require sighted people obey special laws about them. *shrug* oh the abuse I am now going to get.../ Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home page: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 16 15:28:12 2012 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 07:28:12 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: <003201cddba0$c5acaa10$5105fe30$@labarrelaw.com> References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> <003201cddba0$c5acaa10$5105fe30$@labarrelaw.com> Message-ID: <0C36693C-3866-4377-B4EF-FE2BBC0340DC@sbcglobal.net> Just to complete my shunning, I really wish that guiding tactics and use with blind people would be discouraged. IN the "real world," I've heard so much talk of, adults do not lead other adults around by the arm or hand. Children are led. Guiding blind people and teaching blind people to be guided as a normal recourse just cements the stance of blind adults as 3/5 of a person (this comes from the southern Reconstruction period, when a newly freed black person was counted at 3/5 of a vote in elections). Guiding isn't a replacement for independence. And, yes, I sometimes have no choice but to use guiding also, simply because the system is in place and one maverick's opinion isn't going to change it, but I abhor touching or being touched by strangers (another thing blind people are expected to endure, physical contact), and I see the attitude change toward me, from respect to polite dismissal or humoring, once I have conceded to being led around. Really, we NEED to develop or teach less guiding, less demand for protection, less back-seat status, and we need to stop practicing amongst ourselves tactics and mannerisms that encourage it. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home page: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 16 15:30:16 2012 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 07:30:16 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: <7B68EB8A-744A-42BE-875A-2B6F8F2D0B70@att.net> References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> <385E0E40-FDAB-4471-885D-B43FCEDA07AB@sbcglobal.net> <06C75289-CE78-49A1-A257-FEF65FF62D1A@att.net> <7B68EB8A-744A-42BE-875A-2B6F8F2D0B70@att.net> Message-ID: So if I carry a black cane and am blind, I can still be excluded from a restaurant? That sounds more like a conformist action than a law. I don't deny that white cane laws, as now in place, do good things to protect blind people who are in dangerous situations. And, I agree with you that we can't stop society from discriminating--EXCEPT on an individual level--if the individual has enough personal strength, skill and autonomy, he/she can stop the discrimination at that level with whatever honorable tactic is necessary. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home page: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ From johnrsheehan at yahoo.com Sun Dec 16 15:33:27 2012 From: johnrsheehan at yahoo.com (John Sheehan) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 07:33:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> <385E0E40-FDAB-4471-885D-B43FCEDA07AB@sbcglobal.net> <06C75289-CE78-49A1-A257-FEF65FF62D1A@att.net> Message-ID: <1355672007.25509.YahooMailNeo@web163003.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Please don't think of this as abuse (Hehehe) but you have to remember that there are a LOT of laws designed to "protect" people - that a pedestrian in a crosswalk has the right of way, that people in wheelchairs get special treatment on public transportation systems, that older folks (in which group I belong) get discounts. I don't think any of these - including ADA provisions - somehow belittle the individuals being protected. I'm sighted - but when I go out with my sleep shades and white cane, I still have people who bump into me and knock me down, despite the obvious signs I can't see. The cane is a notice to others to be careful, as well as a crucial tool for getting around. I use a senior discount card, and have, at times, asked a young person to get up from a seat designated for seniors so I or someone else could sit. In a perfect world, people would take care of and be conscious of one another. It's not a perfect world, so we have laws. And invoke them when we need to.    Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ Chairman Xavier Society for the Blind Web Site: www.xaviersocietyfortheblind.org 154 E. 23rd St NYC 10010 212 473-7800, ext 119 Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you. Residence: 53 E 83rd St New York, NY 10028 Room Phone: 212 606-3423 (Note the new phone #)  Cell: 646 853-1820 Blog: www.frjohnsj.blogspot.com ________________________________ From: Mark BurningHawk To: Blind Law Mailing List Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane While I don't think this list is the place to start a spirited debate on canes, I agree with you that a different color cane use is problematic in terms of socialization or integration into the existing system.  My own personal stance on it, which I will never attain, due to physical limitations like profound hearing loss, but my own stance on it is that a blind person should develop skills that are so precise and exact that "laws," of any kind, "protecting," the blind person from the rest of the world would not be necessary.  I'm a little shocked in fact that the NFB would support a body of law put in place specifically to force accessibility upon the world, specifically for white cane users (a subset of the blind population), rather than encourage members to develop other options that don't require sighted people obey special laws about them. *shrug* oh the abuse I am now going to get.../ Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter:  BurningHawk1969 Home page:  Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/johnrsheehan%40yahoo.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 16 16:42:28 2012 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 08:42:28 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: <1355672007.25509.YahooMailNeo@web163003.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> <385E0E40-FDAB-4471-885D-B43FCEDA07AB@sbcglobal.net> <06C75289-CE78-49A1-A257-FEF65FF62D1A@att.net> <1355672007.25509.YahooMailNeo@web163003.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey Father John. It's okay, I"m thick-skinned and I asked for it, in fact I'll probably be rebuked soon, so I should curb this. My point was not that laws to protect citizens are bad, but that special laws to protect blind citizens MORE than sighted citizens do nothing to bolster independence or autonomy of the blind individual. If the law says that a person with a white cane has more rights if injured by a motorist than a person without one is also saying that this person deserves more, for some reason. I am not advocating for anarchy, merely much LESS … archy. :) Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home page: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ From rumpole at roadrunner.com Sun Dec 16 20:30:41 2012 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 15:30:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] looking for a Suggestion Message-ID: <25BBCF93DA6741DE9B2B5343BE1B8784@mycomputer> Good afternoon everyone - I'm looking for a suggestion about a printer/scanner. My old faithful one has finally passed away. I'm runnning JFW 14 with XP Pro and was wondering if anyone can suggest which types that are on the market that work particularly well, and which ones aren't quite as good. I confess that I like the fax capacity and the scanning, I use all of that in conjunction with my work. I'm just looking for input on what others have found that works well and with durability. One issue I wanted to ask about has to do with the ink toner - who gets good "milage" out of toner in their scanner/printer? If you're faxing or printing a lot, some of these products really go through it quickly. All suggestions welcome. From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Sun Dec 16 20:37:53 2012 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 20:37:53 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion In-Reply-To: <25BBCF93DA6741DE9B2B5343BE1B8784@mycomputer> References: <25BBCF93DA6741DE9B2B5343BE1B8784@mycomputer> Message-ID: <0F6D57D4-2C5E-4940-842B-34BB41CA94D4@stmarytx.edu> Ross, First I would like to express support for you during this loss in your life. I know it is hard right now but your beloved printer is in a better place and has joined all the departed office equipment through out the ages in the hope of printing again. I use the office jet 550 photo smart scanner, printer, combo. take care, Robert Dittman, J.D. studying for the tx bar I sit feb 2013 Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2012, at 14:32, "Ross Doerr" wrote: > Good afternoon everyone - > I'm looking for a suggestion about a printer/scanner. My old faithful one has finally passed away. > I'm runnning JFW 14 with XP Pro and was wondering if anyone can suggest which types that are on the market that work particularly well, and which ones aren't quite as good. > I confess that I like the fax capacity and the scanning, I use all of that in conjunction with my work. > I'm just looking for input on what others have found that works well and with durability. > One issue I wanted to ask about has to do with the ink toner - who gets good "milage" out of toner in their scanner/printer? If you're faxing or printing a lot, some of these products really go through it quickly. > All suggestions welcome. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 16 21:00:02 2012 From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 15:00:02 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion References: <25BBCF93DA6741DE9B2B5343BE1B8784@mycomputer> <0F6D57D4-2C5E-4940-842B-34BB41CA94D4@stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <6E412B93174A49F492AF39342147C148@HP8730notebook> hi, i had always favored hp but due to better defined/protruding buttons, i decided to try epson about a year ago and my epson workforce 545 is easily 10 times faster processing the request from openbook and throwing the text on the screen than any of my hp units ever scanned. Bryan Schulz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dittman, Robert" To: "Blind Law Mailing List" Cc: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion > Ross, > > First I would like to express support for you during this loss in your > life. I know it is hard right now but your beloved printer is in a better > place and has joined all the departed office equipment through out the > ages in the hope of printing again. > > I use the office jet 550 photo smart scanner, printer, combo. > > take care, > > Robert Dittman, J.D. studying for the tx bar I sit feb 2013 > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 16, 2012, at 14:32, "Ross Doerr" wrote: > >> Good afternoon everyone - >> I'm looking for a suggestion about a printer/scanner. My old faithful one >> has finally passed away. >> I'm runnning JFW 14 with XP Pro and was wondering if anyone can suggest >> which types that are on the market that work particularly well, and which >> ones aren't quite as good. >> I confess that I like the fax capacity and the scanning, I use all of >> that in conjunction with my work. >> I'm just looking for input on what others have found that works well and >> with durability. >> One issue I wanted to ask about has to do with the ink toner - who gets >> good "milage" out of toner in their scanner/printer? If you're faxing or >> printing a lot, some of these products really go through it quickly. >> All suggestions welcome. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Sun Dec 16 21:05:15 2012 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 21:05:15 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion In-Reply-To: <6E412B93174A49F492AF39342147C148@HP8730notebook> References: <25BBCF93DA6741DE9B2B5343BE1B8784@mycomputer> <0F6D57D4-2C5E-4940-842B-34BB41CA94D4@stmarytx.edu>, <6E412B93174A49F492AF39342147C148@HP8730notebook> Message-ID: <3BF27D2A-742A-400B-B20C-741E6EE5691C@stmarytx.edu> Well, Epson is also good. I use a mac and other apple products so they just work. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2012, at 15:02, "Bryan Schulz" wrote: > hi, > > i had always favored hp but due to better defined/protruding buttons, i decided to try epson about a year ago and my epson workforce 545 is easily 10 times faster processing the request from openbook and throwing the text on the screen than any of my hp units ever scanned. > Bryan Schulz > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dittman, Robert" > To: "Blind Law Mailing List" > Cc: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 2:37 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion > > >> Ross, >> >> First I would like to express support for you during this loss in your life. I know it is hard right now but your beloved printer is in a better place and has joined all the departed office equipment through out the ages in the hope of printing again. >> >> I use the office jet 550 photo smart scanner, printer, combo. >> >> take care, >> >> Robert Dittman, J.D. studying for the tx bar I sit feb 2013 >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 16, 2012, at 14:32, "Ross Doerr" wrote: >> >>> Good afternoon everyone - >>> I'm looking for a suggestion about a printer/scanner. My old faithful one has finally passed away. >>> I'm runnning JFW 14 with XP Pro and was wondering if anyone can suggest which types that are on the market that work particularly well, and which ones aren't quite as good. >>> I confess that I like the fax capacity and the scanning, I use all of that in conjunction with my work. >>> I'm just looking for input on what others have found that works well and with durability. >>> One issue I wanted to ask about has to do with the ink toner - who gets good "milage" out of toner in their scanner/printer? If you're faxing or printing a lot, some of these products really go through it quickly. >>> All suggestions welcome. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu From tmeloy at fuse.net Sun Dec 16 21:20:41 2012 From: tmeloy at fuse.net (Timothy J. Meloy) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 16:20:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion In-Reply-To: <3BF27D2A-742A-400B-B20C-741E6EE5691C@stmarytx.edu> References: <25BBCF93DA6741DE9B2B5343BE1B8784@mycomputer> <0F6D57D4-2C5E-4940-842B-34BB41CA94D4@stmarytx.edu> <6E412B93174A49F492AF39342147C148@HP8730notebook> <3BF27D2A-742A-400B-B20C-741E6EE5691C@stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: Speaking of Mac products, I am attempting to take two online CLE seminars on my Mac book pro. They stop occasionally and present a resume program button. A sighted person has told me it is there but I can't locate it. VO says the HTML content is empty. Any suggestions? Are there any online seminars u find more accessible than others? Thanks, TJ On Dec 16, 2012, at 4:05 PM, "Dittman, Robert" wrote: > Well, Epson is also good. I use a mac and other apple products so they just work. > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 16, 2012, at 15:02, "Bryan Schulz" wrote: > >> hi, >> >> i had always favored hp but due to better defined/protruding buttons, i decided to try epson about a year ago and my epson workforce 545 is easily 10 times faster processing the request from openbook and throwing the text on the screen than any of my hp units ever scanned. >> Bryan Schulz >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dittman, Robert" >> To: "Blind Law Mailing List" >> Cc: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 2:37 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion >> >> >>> Ross, >>> >>> First I would like to express support for you during this loss in your life. I know it is hard right now but your beloved printer is in a better place and has joined all the departed office equipment through out the ages in the hope of printing again. >>> >>> I use the office jet 550 photo smart scanner, printer, combo. >>> >>> take care, >>> >>> Robert Dittman, J.D. studying for the tx bar I sit feb 2013 >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 16, 2012, at 14:32, "Ross Doerr" wrote: >>> >>>> Good afternoon everyone - >>>> I'm looking for a suggestion about a printer/scanner. My old faithful one has finally passed away. >>>> I'm runnning JFW 14 with XP Pro and was wondering if anyone can suggest which types that are on the market that work particularly well, and which ones aren't quite as good. >>>> I confess that I like the fax capacity and the scanning, I use all of that in conjunction with my work. >>>> I'm just looking for input on what others have found that works well and with durability. >>>> One issue I wanted to ask about has to do with the ink toner - who gets good "milage" out of toner in their scanner/printer? If you're faxing or printing a lot, some of these products really go through it quickly. >>>> All suggestions welcome. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.edu > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tmeloy%40fuse.net From paulharpur at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 01:24:37 2012 From: paulharpur at gmail.com (Paul Harpur) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 11:24:37 +1000 Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: <385E0E40-FDAB-4471-885D-B43FCEDA07AB@sbcglobal.net> References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> <385E0E40-FDAB-4471-885D-B43FCEDA07AB@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <000601cddbf5$4baf69f0$e30e3dd0$@com> Perhaps one approach could be to look at the crazy medical advice. Just some ideas, but: 1. When was the advice given? Remember years ago some third rate medical practitioners used to cover kids good eye to help their lazy ey get better. Later we recognised this as abuse. It could be that the advice that this person has been given is out of a 1920s textbook! 2. Is the person in question correctly understanding the advice? I am sure we all have given someone legal advice and later found the client has misunderstood something. I just can't believe anyone would give such stupid advice. If you can't see and you walk into things, hitting your head, surely that can't be overly healthy. 3. If the answer to 2 is yes, then has this medical practitioner any real qualifications or capacity to give such advice? Sounds like they have got their qualifications out of a cornflakes packet. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk Sent: Monday, 17 December 2012 12:59 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane If the person in question had some sort of ethical or moral difference with cane use, this would be much more supportable. I, too, have ethical or personal / social issues with a white cane, but I would never refuse to use one. I hope that, should the person choose to use a different COLOR of cane, he will not be subject to this ostracization. I am glad that a dog was also included multiple times in the original post, as I remember a lot of bias against dogs in past times, and I'm glad to see that apparently not there as much. However, the reasoning that a cane will somehow cause seizures is, as was nicely put, horse hockey. :) Sending him home, even telling him what he *had* to do in terms of cane use, or couching it as an "You're setting a bad example for other blind people," argument, though, I feel, will be less than useful. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home page: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/paulharpur%40gmail.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 17 02:16:46 2012 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 18:16:46 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn><1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net><385E0E40-FDAB-4471-885D-B43FCEDA07AB@sbcglobal.net><06C75289-CE78-49A1-A257-FEF65FF62D1A@att.net><7B68EB8A-744A-42BE-875A-2B6F8F2D0B70@att.net> Message-ID: <0C8B3CE05B9342F892FD8F6C1F474CE1@Spike> In California you could not be excluded from a restaurant under any circumstances as a disability is a protected class under state civil rights protections. This does not even get in to ADA issues. Chuck Krugman, MSW Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/chuck-krugman/b/357/722 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" To: "Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:30 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane > So if I carry a black cane and am blind, I can still be excluded from a > restaurant? That sounds more like a conformist action than a law. I > don't deny that white cane laws, as now in place, do good things to > protect blind people who are in dangerous situations. And, I agree with > you that we can't stop society from discriminating--EXCEPT on an > individual level--if the individual has enough personal strength, skill > and autonomy, he/she can stop the discrimination at that level with > whatever honorable tactic is necessary. > > Mark BurningHawk > Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 > Home page: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From souljourner at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 17 05:56:19 2012 From: souljourner at sbcglobal.net (Susan Tabor) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 23:56:19 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <000001cddc1b$3d336ae0$b79a40a0$@sbcglobal.net> Good evening: Though I use a cane, I don't like it. But I know I need to use it. There was a time in my life as a teen when I absolutely refused to use a cane because it made me stand out and this petrified me. I had enough trouble being accepted by my sighted peers, which was a big deal to me at the time, and if I ran around with something that stood out like a sore thumb, how was I going to have any friends? Yes, yes, I know all of the arguments around this issue. How is a person going to be helped to change by not being accepted where they are at the moment and moved gently from there. There could be fear and trust issues here and they must be carefully and compassionately approached. Force is not helpful. Helping to light the fire of desire by example and compassion would seem to me to be much more effective. Susan Tabor -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 6:53 AM To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org Cc: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List; Daniel Carr; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List; NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane Good morning everyone, An who belonged to our Florida Affiliate recently moved to San Antonio and wishes to join our chapter. This person is totally blind and absolutely refuses to use a cane. They recently showed up at our Christmas party and had to be helped in to and out of the meeting room we used for this event. Members were surprised when they discovered that this person showed up without their cane. When later questioned about this the person began giving us all manner of excuse. They told us that their neurologist and past O&M instructors recommended against the use of the cane due to this person's having seizures. This individual attended Perkins along with a number of other schools for the blind. I know for a fact that at least while at Perkins this individual lived in a cottage with another person who also has seizures and is one of the best travelers I know. Like this person, the confident cane user is totally blind and is someone I came to know well. The individual in question undoubtedly met many other successful blind cane users with other disabilities. I myself have seizures and sleep apnea and use both a cane and a dog depending on the situation. The individual refusing to use their cane has all ready been told by several members in the area that if they wish to visit them the/she must bring their cane and use it to get from their transportation in to our residence and if necessary use the cane during their visit. When attempting to reason with the person in question members have been accused of "Bullying" them and have heard all excuses in the book why he/she cannot use a cane proficiently. The individual has been told that neurologists are not qualified to determine whether or not the use of a travel aid can effect one's seizures. The evidence to the contrary is over whelmingly against this horsepuckey. As we also know not all blindness professionals have true belief in the capabilities of the blind. This individual obviously had a few such persons in their life to sell them short on their ability to travel independently and on the importance of using a cane or a dog. The individual has been told that if they show up at any of our homes without their cane we will call them a cab and promptly send them home at their expense something they can avoid simply by listening to reason and using their cane whenever traveling. We're busy people. The last thing we need to have to do is take someone to the emergency room when we know that an individual has complete disregard for their personal safety and as negligent. It seems like direct threat provisions of the ADA may apply in this situation where public venues are concerned. The lawyers can help us wit this one. We want to help this person achieve a higher degree of independence and be an active member of our chapter. While we won't prohibit them from joining us they'll be a more effective contributor to the cause if they would embrace the alternative techniques of blindness and use them regularly. Thanks for your help and suggestions. Peter Donahue "No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper." Isaiah 54:17 "While for our princes they prepare In caverns deep a burning snare, He shot from heaven a piercing ray, And the dark treachery brought to day." Anonymous _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/souljourner%40sbcgloba l.net From rothmanjd at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 13:32:11 2012 From: rothmanjd at gmail.com (Ronza Othman) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 08:32:11 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> Message-ID: <006901cddc5a$ebfa4ff0$c3eeefd0$@gmail.com> Patti's right. Nothing you say is going to penetrate until the person figures out for themselves how dependent and inefficient they are without a cane. If you create a safe environment where the person doesn't feel judged for not using the cane, they are more likely to start to ask questions about how it works and to discuss the fears/stigma/drawbacks of using a cane. Once that discussion begins, it's a natural pathway to discussing the benefits of using a cane, including the health and safety considerations. Even if you think you're just trying to be helpful when you tell the person you will put them back in a cab, the person might view that as rejection and yes, bulleying. With me, Patti met me where I was and waited for me to come to the conclusion that I needed to change - rather than constantly telling me I needed to change; I wouldn't have listened to her if she had. Good luck. Ronza -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gregory Chang Patti Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 9:54 AM To: John Sheehan; Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane I agree. I have by example taught much more than by lecture. Ronza Othman and I walked around a lot when she externed with me and it occurs to people after while who travels with more efficiency. She now carries a cane all the time. If I had lectured her I think she would have reacted much differently. Please give to the National Federation of the Blind Annual Appeal by sending to NFBI, c/o Glenn Moore, Treasurer PO Box 1065 Elgin, IL 60121. PS. Find us on Twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi and on facebook by searching on "National Federation of the Blind of Illinois." Patti Gregory Chang Esq. President, NFBI pattichang at att.net On Dec 16, 2012, at 8:15 AM, John Sheehan wrote: Sounds like this person has been pressured and bullied in their life - I'm not sure that more bullying, no matter how well meant, is going to help.You can refuse to do things for them that they should be able to do themselves - but being with people who are independent will teach the lesson of the need for O&M training more effectively thansending them home in a cab. Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ Chairman Xavier Society for the Blind Web Site: www.xaviersocietyfortheblind.org 154 E. 23rd St NYC 10010 212 473-7800, ext 119 Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you. Residence: 53 E 83rd St New York, NY 10028 Room Phone: 212 606-3423 (Note the new phone #) Cell: 646 853-1820 Blog: www.frjohnsj.blogspot.com ________________________________ From: Peter Donahue To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org Cc: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List ; Daniel Carr ; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List ; NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:52 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane Good morning everyone, An who belonged to our Florida Affiliate recently moved to San Antonio and wishes to join our chapter. This person is totally blind and absolutely refuses to use a cane. They recently showed up at our Christmas party and had to be helped in to and out of the meeting room we used for this event. Members were surprised when they discovered that this person showed up without their cane. When later questioned about this the person began giving us all manner of excuse. They told us that their neurologist and past O&M instructors recommended against the use of the cane due to this person's having seizures. This individual attended Perkins along with a number of other schools for the blind. I know for a fact that at least while at Perkins this individual lived in a cottage with another person who also has seizures and is one of the best travelers I know. Like this person, the confident cane user is totally blind and is someone I came to know well. The individual in question undoubtedly met many other successful blind cane users with other disabilities. I myself have seizures and sleep apnea and use both a cane and a dog depending on the situation. The individual refusing to use their cane has all ready been told by several members in the area that if they wish to visit them the/she must bring their cane and use it to get from their transportation in to our residence and if necessary use the cane during their visit. When attempting to reason with the person in question members have been accused of "Bullying" them and have heard all excuses in the book why he/she cannot use a cane proficiently. The individual has been told that neurologists are not qualified to determine whether or not the use of a travel aid can effect one's seizures. The evidence to the contrary is over whelmingly against this horsepuckey. As we also know not all blindness professionals have true belief in the capabilities of the blind. This individual obviously had a few such persons in their life to sell them short on their ability to travel independently and on the importance of using a cane or a dog. The individual has been told that if they show up at any of our homes without their cane we will call them a cab and promptly send them home at their expense something they can avoid simply by listening to reason and using their cane whenever traveling. We're busy people. The last thing we need to have to do is take someone to the emergency room when we know that an individual has complete disregard for their personal safety and as negligent. It seems like direct threat provisions of the ADA may apply in this situation where public venues are concerned. The lawyers can help us wit this one. We want to help this person achieve a higher degree of independence and be an active member of our chapter. While we won't prohibit them from joining us they'll be a more effective contributor to the cause if they would embrace the alternative techniques of blindness and use them regularly. Thanks for your help and suggestions. Peter Donahue "No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper." Isaiah 54:17 "While for our princes they prepare In caverns deep a burning snare, He shot from heaven a piercing ray, And the dark treachery brought to day." Anonymous _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/johnrsheehan%40yahoo.c om _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmail.com From rothmanjd at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 13:44:01 2012 From: rothmanjd at gmail.com (Ronza Othman) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 08:44:01 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: <0C36693C-3866-4377-B4EF-FE2BBC0340DC@sbcglobal.net> References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> <003201cddba0$c5acaa10$5105fe30$@labarrelaw.com> <0C36693C-3866-4377-B4EF-FE2BBC0340DC@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <006b01cddc5c$930e1cd0$b92a5670$@gmail.com> Mark, I find your comments interesting, but I disagree. I am of the belief that the cane is the best method for independent travel, as the individual is entirely dependent on his or her own skills. I believe that a guide dog is a good alternative for those who prefer, as the individual is still "in charge" of his or her own independence and is the decision-maker. However, I believe, in certain situations, sighted guide is acceptable. Let me give you an example. In a previous job, I worked as a prosecutor where I had to go to crime scenes to assess what charges should be filed. Had I walked through the scene alone with my cane, I would have disturbed the scene and transferred evidence from one place to another. By going sighted guide, I could still experience the scene but be steered away from stepping on evidence, disturbing blood splatter, etc. No one thought I was incompetent because I couldn't see and had a sighted guide. I'd have been an incompetent prosecutor if I'd mucked up the evidence. Similarly, there are situations when it is most appropriate and useful to use a human reader. It frustrates me to no end when folks complain about lack of access when technology fails or isn't workable. Readers are efficient and respectable. Let's face it - up until recently, we've lived in a world of handwriting, not digital information. Just my thoughts. Ronza -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 10:28 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane Just to complete my shunning, I really wish that guiding tactics and use with blind people would be discouraged. IN the "real world," I've heard so much talk of, adults do not lead other adults around by the arm or hand. Children are led. Guiding blind people and teaching blind people to be guided as a normal recourse just cements the stance of blind adults as 3/5 of a person (this comes from the southern Reconstruction period, when a newly freed black person was counted at 3/5 of a vote in elections). Guiding isn't a replacement for independence. And, yes, I sometimes have no choice but to use guiding also, simply because the system is in place and one maverick's opinion isn't going to change it, but I abhor touching or being touched by strangers (another thing blind people are expected to endure, physical contact), and I see the attitude change toward me, from respect to polite dismissal or humoring, once I have conceded to being led around. Really, we NEED to develop or teach less guiding, less demand for protection, less back-seat status, and we need to stop practicing amongst ourselves tactics and mannerisms that encourage it. Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home page: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmail.com From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 17 15:00:13 2012 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 07:00:13 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: <006b01cddc5c$930e1cd0$b92a5670$@gmail.com> References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> <003201cddba0$c5acaa10$5105fe30$@labarrelaw.com> <0C36693C-3866-4377-B4EF-FE2BBC0340DC@sbcglobal.net> <006b01cddc5c$930e1cd0$b92a5670$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, Ronda: Thanks for allowing me to agree with you and therefore (seemingly) moderate my stance. I agree with you that, when done respectfully and with dignity, a sighted-guid situation can be made bearable and even advantageous. However, this is a specific situation in which a known and trusted individual is being employed as the guide, and the protocol has been worked out before hand. My objection comes when this method of travel is considered "pro from a," for blind people, and even insisted upon, as has been my experience numerous times in my sojourns among the "grey masses." We teach our children never to trust or come in contact with strangers, and yet we teach our blind to rely on being towed along in the wake of someone they may barely know, and that it's okay that strangers should touch them and lead them places. It's those types of situations, not instances like yours, that I was speaking against. And, any individual who is not in charge of his/her guide dog is a greater menace than a cane user. A well-functioning guide dog and person team means that the dog is taking the handler's commands and processing them intuitively to produce smooth travel. In no way was I advocating that the caneless individual continue to go without a mobility augmentation. I should think that one tumble down a flight of stairs should convince the individual of this… Mark BurningHawk Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 Home page: Http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ From rdittman at stmarytx.edu Mon Dec 17 16:33:55 2012 From: rdittman at stmarytx.edu (Dittman, Robert) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:33:55 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] News story on my law school completion Message-ID: <3CD901F2-1622-47B9-94E2-376A5288EE9B@stmarytx.edu> Hi all, Hope you enjoy this. I am just doing my bit. The following is from the San Antonio Expres News... Surviving law school would be a proud achievement for anybody. But for Robert Dittman, who classmates nicknamed “Blind Justice,” it's not just his latest degree. It's a necessary step toward a dream he may still have to fight for: Landing a job as a military attorney. The sky-diving, competitive-wrestling, Eagle-Scouting, U.S. Coast Guard volunteer lost most of his sight as a result of being born premature and the remainder after a wrestling blow to the head as a teen. Dittman, 35 has a simple philosophy for handling tough scenarios: “When the world tells you, 'No,' turn the world on its head.” On Dec. 8, he became one of two dozen St. Mary's University law students receiving their doctoral hoods, signifying degree completion. His seeing-eye dog Snickers, a docile chocolate Labrador retriever, earned a bone from the dean for his efforts as well. “Snickers went through law school, too, so it was just fair,” said Reynaldo Valencia, the law school's associate dean for administration and finance. “He had to do those long hours with Rob here.” Dittman and Snickers are already buckling down to study for the bar exam in February. Law school staff can recall just one other blind student graduating from the program, and that was more than a decade ago, Valencia said. Dittman credits the school with going well beyond what's required by the Americans with Disabilities Act to help him succeed. It spent thousands of dollars on a Braille printer and other technology, assigned a staff member to ensure he had materials in a format he could access and let him use a room in the library to study and for Snickers to relax off-duty, Valencia said. “We are a Catholic Marianist university, and if there is something we should do for a student with particular needs, we do it,” he said, adding that the energetic Dittman responded in kind. While in law school, Dittman studied international issues in Innsbruck, Austria. He acted as a student attorney at the school's Center for Legal and Social Justice in San Antonio — working with clients on divorces, consumer protection cases and foreclosures. And he worked as a legal “extern” for the U.S. Coast Guard, assisting with courts-martial proceedings and other cases. The military was his inspiration for studying law. “I've always wanted to serve,” Dittman said. “They've always told me, 'No.'” So he tried to think of a skill he could acquire that the military would always need. “It's so funny. So many people want out of the military, and I've been working for 17 years to get in,” said Dittman, who has worked for years with the volunteer U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary and other military organizations. “I believe in the values of officership.” His parents served in the Air Force and Army, and he was born on Sheppard Air Force Base in Wichita Falls. Dittman said the military should consider giving him a medical waiver because the armed forces have allowed service members visually impaired while on duty to continue to serve and because he's been doing the job as a volunteer already. His efforts have elicited recommendations from the likes of law professors and Coast Guard officers. U.S. Sen. John Cornyn's office has also helped inquire with the Department of Defense on his behalf. “We admire very much his desire to serve his country,” said Cornyn's spokeswoman Jessica Sandlin in an email. Despite these appeals, Dittman received a response letter from the Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense saying his medical condition would “limit the duties and missions of a uniformed officer” and urging him to consider civilian employment with the Defense Department instead. “While many of these people have otherwise outstanding qualifications, they are unable to serve,” department spokesman Nate Christensen said in an email. “Individuals who are physically disqualified for military duty can and do become civilian members of the team. The work they perform for the department and our country is valuable and rewarding but without the rigors of military duty.” Christensen said about 35 percent of those who want to join the military are disqualified because of a physical condition. But Dittman has not given up. He said the military should not allow soldiers who were visually impaired during combat to serve on active duty “without completely and utterly looking into my blindness as well,” he said, drawing a correlation to other groups that have been barred from service in the past — minorities, women and gays. “I'm not going away.” Dittman said. “Even if I lose, I'll know I've done the full measure.”" From tim at timeldermusic.com Mon Dec 17 19:29:20 2012 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 14:29:20 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion In-Reply-To: <3BF27D2A-742A-400B-B20C-741E6EE5691C@stmarytx.edu> References: <25BBCF93DA6741DE9B2B5343BE1B8784@mycomputer> <0F6D57D4-2C5E-4940-842B-34BB41CA94D4@stmarytx.edu>, <6E412B93174A49F492AF39342147C148@HP8730notebook> <3BF27D2A-742A-400B-B20C-741E6EE5691C@stmarytx.edu> Message-ID: <003f01cddc8c$d0550f60$70ff2e20$@timeldermusic.com> I love my Fujitsu Scansnap. It is small, portable, automatically detects page orientation, disgards blank pages, automatically produces OCR-scanned pdfs re Abby Finereader, and its software controls are easy to use with JAWS. Regards, -----Original Message----- From: Dittman, Robert [mailto:rdittman at stmarytx.edu] Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 4:05 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion Well, Epson is also good. I use a mac and other apple products so they just work. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2012, at 15:02, "Bryan Schulz" wrote: > hi, > > i had always favored hp but due to better defined/protruding buttons, i decided to try epson about a year ago and my epson workforce 545 is easily 10 times faster processing the request from openbook and throwing the text on the screen than any of my hp units ever scanned. > Bryan Schulz > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dittman, Robert" > To: "Blind Law Mailing List" > Cc: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 2:37 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion > > >> Ross, >> >> First I would like to express support for you during this loss in your life. I know it is hard right now but your beloved printer is in a better place and has joined all the departed office equipment through out the ages in the hope of printing again. >> >> I use the office jet 550 photo smart scanner, printer, combo. >> >> take care, >> >> Robert Dittman, J.D. studying for the tx bar I sit feb 2013 >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 16, 2012, at 14:32, "Ross Doerr" wrote: >> >>> Good afternoon everyone - >>> I'm looking for a suggestion about a printer/scanner. My old faithful one has finally passed away. >>> I'm runnning JFW 14 with XP Pro and was wondering if anyone can suggest which types that are on the market that work particularly well, and which ones aren't quite as good. >>> I confess that I like the fax capacity and the scanning, I use all of that in conjunction with my work. >>> I'm just looking for input on what others have found that works well and with durability. >>> One issue I wanted to ask about has to do with the ink toner - who gets good "milage" out of toner in their scanner/printer? If you're faxing or printing a lot, some of these products really go through it quickly. >>> All suggestions welcome. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.ed u >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.n et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.ed u From rumpole at roadrunner.com Mon Dec 17 20:32:36 2012 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:32:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion References: <25BBCF93DA6741DE9B2B5343BE1B8784@mycomputer> <0F6D57D4-2C5E-4940-842B-34BB41CA94D4@stmarytx.edu>, <6E412B93174A49F492AF39342147C148@HP8730notebook><3BF27D2A-742A-400B-B20C-741E6EE5691C@stmarytx.edu> <003f01cddc8c$d0550f60$70ff2e20$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: <3B058E630EE54423AFD3F6BE26BA4DCF@mycomputer> How is that Fujitsu Scansnap on toner usage? By the way, I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestion on scanner/printers, it is helpful. Since just about everyone on the list is using one type of assistive software, its nice to know how many products are working well with them. Very informative. Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Elder" To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion >I love my Fujitsu Scansnap. It is small, portable, automatically detects > page orientation, disgards blank pages, automatically produces OCR-scanned > pdfs re Abby Finereader, and its software controls are easy to use with > JAWS. > > Regards, > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dittman, Robert [mailto:rdittman at stmarytx.edu] > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 4:05 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion > > Well, Epson is also good. I use a mac and other apple products so they > just > work. > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 16, 2012, at 15:02, "Bryan Schulz" wrote: > >> hi, >> >> i had always favored hp but due to better defined/protruding buttons, i > decided to try epson about a year ago and my epson workforce 545 is easily > 10 times faster processing the request from openbook and throwing the text > on the screen than any of my hp units ever scanned. >> Bryan Schulz >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dittman, Robert" > >> To: "Blind Law Mailing List" >> Cc: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 2:37 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion >> >> >>> Ross, >>> >>> First I would like to express support for you during this loss in your > life. I know it is hard right now but your beloved printer is in a better > place and has joined all the departed office equipment through out the > ages > in the hope of printing again. >>> >>> I use the office jet 550 photo smart scanner, printer, combo. >>> >>> take care, >>> >>> Robert Dittman, J.D. studying for the tx bar I sit feb 2013 >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 16, 2012, at 14:32, "Ross Doerr" wrote: >>> >>>> Good afternoon everyone - >>>> I'm looking for a suggestion about a printer/scanner. My old faithful > one has finally passed away. >>>> I'm runnning JFW 14 with XP Pro and was wondering if anyone can suggest > which types that are on the market that work particularly well, and which > ones aren't quite as good. >>>> I confess that I like the fax capacity and the scanning, I use all of > that in conjunction with my work. >>>> I'm just looking for input on what others have found that works well >>>> and > with durability. >>>> One issue I wanted to ask about has to do with the ink toner - who gets > good "milage" out of toner in their scanner/printer? If you're faxing or > printing a lot, some of these products really go through it quickly. >>>> All suggestions welcome. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.ed > u >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.n > et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.ed > u > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5466 - Release Date: 12/17/12 > From souljourner at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 18 03:08:29 2012 From: souljourner at sbcglobal.net (Susan Tabor) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 21:08:29 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane In-Reply-To: <006901cddc5a$ebfa4ff0$c3eeefd0$@gmail.com> References: <006801cddb8c$398479a0$df1fbf48@yourfsyly0jtwn> <1355667326.86479.YahooMailNeo@web163004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <2E43EA0C-0A83-47CA-800A-1665B520365F@att.net> <006901cddc5a$ebfa4ff0$c3eeefd0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001cddccc$f4e74a10$deb5de30$@sbcglobal.net> Agreed. Susan -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ronza Othman Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 7:32 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List'; 'John Sheehan' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane Patti's right. Nothing you say is going to penetrate until the person figures out for themselves how dependent and inefficient they are without a cane. If you create a safe environment where the person doesn't feel judged for not using the cane, they are more likely to start to ask questions about how it works and to discuss the fears/stigma/drawbacks of using a cane. Once that discussion begins, it's a natural pathway to discussing the benefits of using a cane, including the health and safety considerations. Even if you think you're just trying to be helpful when you tell the person you will put them back in a cab, the person might view that as rejection and yes, bulleying. With me, Patti met me where I was and waited for me to come to the conclusion that I needed to change - rather than constantly telling me I needed to change; I wouldn't have listened to her if she had. Good luck. Ronza -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gregory Chang Patti Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 9:54 AM To: John Sheehan; Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane I agree. I have by example taught much more than by lecture. Ronza Othman and I walked around a lot when she externed with me and it occurs to people after while who travels with more efficiency. She now carries a cane all the time. If I had lectured her I think she would have reacted much differently. Please give to the National Federation of the Blind Annual Appeal by sending to NFBI, c/o Glenn Moore, Treasurer PO Box 1065 Elgin, IL 60121. PS. Find us on Twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi and on facebook by searching on "National Federation of the Blind of Illinois." Patti Gregory Chang Esq. President, NFBI pattichang at att.net On Dec 16, 2012, at 8:15 AM, John Sheehan wrote: Sounds like this person has been pressured and bullied in their life - I'm not sure that more bullying, no matter how well meant, is going to help.You can refuse to do things for them that they should be able to do themselves - but being with people who are independent will teach the lesson of the need for O&M training more effectively thansending them home in a cab. Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ Chairman Xavier Society for the Blind Web Site: www.xaviersocietyfortheblind.org 154 E. 23rd St NYC 10010 212 473-7800, ext 119 Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you. Residence: 53 E 83rd St New York, NY 10028 Room Phone: 212 606-3423 (Note the new phone #) Cell: 646 853-1820 Blog: www.frjohnsj.blogspot.com ________________________________ From: Peter Donahue To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org Cc: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List ; Daniel Carr ; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List ; NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:52 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Refusal To Use A Cane Good morning everyone, An who belonged to our Florida Affiliate recently moved to San Antonio and wishes to join our chapter. This person is totally blind and absolutely refuses to use a cane. They recently showed up at our Christmas party and had to be helped in to and out of the meeting room we used for this event. Members were surprised when they discovered that this person showed up without their cane. When later questioned about this the person began giving us all manner of excuse. They told us that their neurologist and past O&M instructors recommended against the use of the cane due to this person's having seizures. This individual attended Perkins along with a number of other schools for the blind. I know for a fact that at least while at Perkins this individual lived in a cottage with another person who also has seizures and is one of the best travelers I know. Like this person, the confident cane user is totally blind and is someone I came to know well. The individual in question undoubtedly met many other successful blind cane users with other disabilities. I myself have seizures and sleep apnea and use both a cane and a dog depending on the situation. The individual refusing to use their cane has all ready been told by several members in the area that if they wish to visit them the/she must bring their cane and use it to get from their transportation in to our residence and if necessary use the cane during their visit. When attempting to reason with the person in question members have been accused of "Bullying" them and have heard all excuses in the book why he/she cannot use a cane proficiently. The individual has been told that neurologists are not qualified to determine whether or not the use of a travel aid can effect one's seizures. The evidence to the contrary is over whelmingly against this horsepuckey. As we also know not all blindness professionals have true belief in the capabilities of the blind. This individual obviously had a few such persons in their life to sell them short on their ability to travel independently and on the importance of using a cane or a dog. The individual has been told that if they show up at any of our homes without their cane we will call them a cab and promptly send them home at their expense something they can avoid simply by listening to reason and using their cane whenever traveling. We're busy people. The last thing we need to have to do is take someone to the emergency room when we know that an individual has complete disregard for their personal safety and as negligent. It seems like direct threat provisions of the ADA may apply in this situation where public venues are concerned. The lawyers can help us wit this one. We want to help this person achieve a higher degree of independence and be an active member of our chapter. While we won't prohibit them from joining us they'll be a more effective contributor to the cause if they would embrace the alternative techniques of blindness and use them regularly. Thanks for your help and suggestions. Peter Donahue "No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper." Isaiah 54:17 "While for our princes they prepare In caverns deep a burning snare, He shot from heaven a piercing ray, And the dark treachery brought to day." Anonymous _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/johnrsheehan%40yahoo.c om _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/souljourner%40sbcgloba l.net From Ronza.Othman at cms.hhs.gov Tue Dec 18 15:21:41 2012 From: Ronza.Othman at cms.hhs.gov (Othman, Ronza (CMS/OEOCR)) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 15:21:41 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Henry Viscardi Achievement Awards Nominations Sought In-Reply-To: <54024F12E21B3343A30CE71C45BBA2D7EE39@PL-EMSMB12.ees.hhs.gov> References: <54024F12E21B3343A30CE71C45BBA2D7EE39@PL-EMSMB12.ees.hhs.gov> Message-ID: <051EB2CB993E3543BD73AC4FAACE40C70168A0@PL-EMSMB12.ees.hhs.gov> From: JANMail at mail.wvu.edu [mailto:JANMail at mail.wvu.edu] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 3:25 PM To: janmail at askjan.org Subject: Henry Viscardi Achievement Awards Nominations Sought [Job Accommodation Network Logo]Job Accommodation Network (800)526-7234 (V) (877)781-9403 (TTY) http://AskJAN.org ________________________________ THE VISCARDI CENTER ANNOUNCES INTERNATIONAL AWARDS TO HONOR MOST INFLUENTIAL MEMBERS OF THE DISABILITY COMMUNITY The Viscardi Center, a teaching community that creates supportive and challenging learning environments and offers integrated community-based services for students with physical disabilities, has announced the creation of a unique awards program to identify and recognize exemplary leaders in the disability community who have had a profound impact on shaping attitudes, raising awareness and improving the quality of life of people with disabilities. These awards are designed to acknowledge influential individuals with disabilities who serve as leaders, mentors and role models and are dramatically improving the lives of people in the disability community on a broad scale," said John D. Kemp, president and CEO of The Viscardi Center. "We are conducting an international search for contemporary figures who, like Dr. Viscardi, are leading by example." Individuals of any age, with any type of disability, are eligible. Nominations will be considered from many walks of life, including but not limited to business, innovation, education, military, health care, nonprofit, entertainment, athletics, government, public service, and emerging leaders. A Selection Committee consisting of notable public figures from the U.S. and abroad who have fought for the rights of others with disabilities is being assembled. The committee, co-chaired by former U.S. Senator Robert Dole and Academy Award winning actress Marlee Matlin, also includes Dr. Viscardi's daughter, Nina Viscardi; Cari Dominguez, former Chair, U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission; Rohini Anand, Chief Diversity Officer, Sodexo; Col. (ret.) Sherwood "Woody" Goldberg; and Axel Leblois, President & CEO, g3ICT, to name a few. Additional information and submission instructions may be found at www.viscardiawards.org. Nominations will be accepted until January 22, 2013. If you have received this email and do not wish to be part of the Job Accommodation Network's Email List, please email janmail at AskJAN.org with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or visit our OptOut Server at http://157.182.245.35:8887 to be removed. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ATT00001 Type: image/jpg Size: 17563 bytes Desc: ATT00001 URL: From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Tue Dec 18 16:51:32 2012 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 09:51:32 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers References: <001e01cdda84$14bc85d0$3e359170$@net> Message-ID: <9FACB6E06833431DBCECA1902AB179E8@victory2> I prefer using Westlaw Classic. In my experience, it has worked far better than Westlaw Next! When I've logged into Westlaw Next, it was extremely to go past the I AGREE radio button; a press of the key on the CONTINUE produced no meaningful results or me and I was pretty frustrated until a Westlaw research assistant urged me to try out the Classic and everything worked out pretty well from there on. Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Tue Dec 18 16:59:33 2012 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 11:59:33 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers In-Reply-To: <9FACB6E06833431DBCECA1902AB179E8@victory2> References: <001e01cdda84$14bc85d0$3e359170$@net> <9FACB6E06833431DBCECA1902AB179E8@victory2> Message-ID: <001901cddd41$0ddea440$299becc0$@wiennergould.com> I like the classic allot better myself. Once you get used to it, it works well. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI 48307 Phone: (248) 841-9405 Fax: (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:52 AM To: schorschj at comcast.net; Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Research and screen readers I prefer using Westlaw Classic. In my experience, it has worked far better than Westlaw Next! When I've logged into Westlaw Next, it was extremely to go past the I AGREE radio button; a press of the key on the CONTINUE produced no meaningful results or me and I was pretty frustrated until a Westlaw research assistant urged me to try out the Classic and everything worked out pretty well from there on. Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergould. com From rumpole at roadrunner.com Tue Dec 18 20:56:11 2012 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 15:56:11 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. Senate vote earlier this month Message-ID: <2C717BCAE1C649A3B3F9AE5895F503CD@mycomputer> US Senate Votes No to the UN Convention on Human Rights of People with Disabilities. On December 4th, the US Senate fell short of the votes needed to ratify the UN Convention on the Human Rights of People with Disabilities. Despite extraordinary support from a coalition of people and organizations, the vote fell short by 38 votes. All Democratic and Independent Senators voted in favor of ratification along with a courageous group of Republication Senators. IHCD is grateful to our Massachusetts' Senators Kerry and Brown for their support for ratification of the CRPD. To learn more click here..... ___________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1346.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 6481 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Wed Dec 19 02:11:40 2012 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 21:11:40 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS Message-ID: <000601cddd8e$2f908f70$8eb1ae50$@verizon.net> List: My apologies in advance if this seems to be off topic for the list. I'm not sure what other list to query. I needed virus protection a year ago and the state venderized dealer installed software inaccessible with JAWS. Now, an upgrade is needed and I'm waiting for red tape to unwind for an upgrade or change of software. Meanwhile my system is at risk. can anyone recommend virus software that works well with JAWS that I can download for free or try temporarily until I can upgrade? Thank you for reading- Cathryn Bonnette ESQ. From withat at msn.com Wed Dec 19 02:17:00 2012 From: withat at msn.com (Johnston) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 18:17:00 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS References: <000601cddd8e$2f908f70$8eb1ae50$@verizon.net> Message-ID: Howdy, AVG is about as good as it gets, and it is free and accessible. I like it better than Norton and McAfee because it seems to slow down my computer less. Just about any of them will slow down your system because they are sort of spyware--just operating for good rather than evil. Good luck! Jay in Portland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathryn" To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:11 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS > List: > > My apologies in advance if this seems to be off topic for the list. I'm > not > sure what other list to query. > > > > I needed virus protection a year ago and the state venderized dealer > installed software inaccessible with JAWS. Now, an upgrade is needed and > I'm > waiting for red tape to unwind for an upgrade or change of software. > Meanwhile my system is at risk. can anyone recommend virus software that > works well with JAWS that I can download for free or try temporarily until > I > can upgrade? > > > > Thank you for reading- > > > > Cathryn Bonnette ESQ. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/withat%40msn.com > From dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 19 02:40:00 2012 From: dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net (Daniel McBride) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 20:40:00 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS In-Reply-To: <000601cddd8e$2f908f70$8eb1ae50$@verizon.net> References: <000601cddd8e$2f908f70$8eb1ae50$@verizon.net> Message-ID: <01cb01cddd92$24f03c60$6ed0b520$@sbcglobal.net> Cathryn: AVG has a free version of internet security that is a decent bang for no bucks, and it is very compatible with JAWS. After using their free version, I have been using the full suite from AVG since. Catch the full suite on sale and it is very fairly priced. I just recently purchased the full suite, on sale at Office Depot, and it was $70 for 2 years on as many as 3 computers. Daniel McBride, Attorney Fort Worth, Texas -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:12 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS List: My apologies in advance if this seems to be off topic for the list. I'm not sure what other list to query. I needed virus protection a year ago and the state venderized dealer installed software inaccessible with JAWS. Now, an upgrade is needed and I'm waiting for red tape to unwind for an upgrade or change of software. Meanwhile my system is at risk. can anyone recommend virus software that works well with JAWS that I can download for free or try temporarily until I can upgrade? Thank you for reading- Cathryn Bonnette ESQ. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 19 03:38:42 2012 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 19:38:42 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS In-Reply-To: <000601cddd8e$2f908f70$8eb1ae50$@verizon.net> References: <000601cddd8e$2f908f70$8eb1ae50$@verizon.net> Message-ID: Hi Cathryn, in the past when I used free antivirus software I used the free version of AVG and it worked well. Microsoft Security Essentials also works well with JAWS. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathryn" To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:11 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS > List: > > My apologies in advance if this seems to be off topic for the list. I'm > not > sure what other list to query. > > > > I needed virus protection a year ago and the state venderized dealer > installed software inaccessible with JAWS. Now, an upgrade is needed and > I'm > waiting for red tape to unwind for an upgrade or change of software. > Meanwhile my system is at risk. can anyone recommend virus software that > works well with JAWS that I can download for free or try temporarily until > I > can upgrade? > > > > Thank you for reading- > > > > Cathryn Bonnette ESQ. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From blinddog3 at charter.net Wed Dec 19 03:44:45 2012 From: blinddog3 at charter.net (Steven Johnson) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 21:44:45 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS In-Reply-To: <01cb01cddd92$24f03c60$6ed0b520$@sbcglobal.net> References: <000601cddd8e$2f908f70$8eb1ae50$@verizon.net> <01cb01cddd92$24f03c60$6ed0b520$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <000901cddd9b$2fa64e70$8ef2eb50$@charter.net> I use Avera and am a JAWS user. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:40 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS Cathryn: AVG has a free version of internet security that is a decent bang for no bucks, and it is very compatible with JAWS. After using their free version, I have been using the full suite from AVG since. Catch the full suite on sale and it is very fairly priced. I just recently purchased the full suite, on sale at Office Depot, and it was $70 for 2 years on as many as 3 computers. Daniel McBride, Attorney Fort Worth, Texas -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:12 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS List: My apologies in advance if this seems to be off topic for the list. I'm not sure what other list to query. I needed virus protection a year ago and the state venderized dealer installed software inaccessible with JAWS. Now, an upgrade is needed and I'm waiting for red tape to unwind for an upgrade or change of software. Meanwhile my system is at risk. can anyone recommend virus software that works well with JAWS that I can download for free or try temporarily until I can upgrade? Thank you for reading- Cathryn Bonnette ESQ. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne t From billreif at ameritech.net Wed Dec 19 04:27:49 2012 From: billreif at ameritech.net (Bill Reif) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 22:27:49 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS In-Reply-To: References: <000601cddd8e$2f908f70$8eb1ae50$@verizon.net> Message-ID: <50D14245.7010808@ameritech.net> Just make sure you uninstall the other virus program first. It's not good to have two running simultaneously. Cordially, Bill On 12/18/2012 9:38 PM, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote: > Hi Cathryn, > in the past when I used free antivirus software I used the free > version of AVG and it worked well. Microsoft Security Essentials also > works well with JAWS. Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathryn" > > To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:11 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS > > >> List: >> >> My apologies in advance if this seems to be off topic for the list. >> I'm not >> sure what other list to query. >> >> >> >> I needed virus protection a year ago and the state venderized dealer >> installed software inaccessible with JAWS. Now, an upgrade is needed >> and I'm >> waiting for red tape to unwind for an upgrade or change of software. >> Meanwhile my system is at risk. can anyone recommend virus software that >> works well with JAWS that I can download for free or try temporarily >> until I >> can upgrade? >> >> >> >> Thank you for reading- >> >> >> >> Cathryn Bonnette ESQ. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/billreif%40ameritech.net > > From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Wed Dec 19 14:18:02 2012 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Daniel K. Beitz) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 09:18:02 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS In-Reply-To: <000601cddd8e$2f908f70$8eb1ae50$@verizon.net> References: <000601cddd8e$2f908f70$8eb1ae50$@verizon.net> Message-ID: <002701cdddf3$a7e50d10$f7af2730$@wiennergould.com> I think Microsoft Security Essentials works well with Jaws. Its accessible, effective and free. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI 48307 Phone: (248) 841-9405 Fax: (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:12 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS List: My apologies in advance if this seems to be off topic for the list. I'm not sure what other list to query. I needed virus protection a year ago and the state venderized dealer installed software inaccessible with JAWS. Now, an upgrade is needed and I'm waiting for red tape to unwind for an upgrade or change of software. Meanwhile my system is at risk. can anyone recommend virus software that works well with JAWS that I can download for free or try temporarily until I can upgrade? Thank you for reading- Cathryn Bonnette ESQ. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergould. com From dandrews at visi.com Wed Dec 19 14:44:59 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 08:44:59 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS In-Reply-To: <000601cddd8e$2f908f70$8eb1ae50$@verizon.net> References: <000601cddd8e$2f908f70$8eb1ae50$@verizon.net> Message-ID: Microsoft Security Essentials is a good, accessible, free choice. Dave At 08:11 PM 12/18/2012, you wrote: >List: > >My apologies in advance if this seems to be off topic for the list. I'm not >sure what other list to query. > > > >I needed virus protection a year ago and the state venderized dealer >installed software inaccessible with JAWS. Now, an upgrade is needed and I'm >waiting for red tape to unwind for an upgrade or change of software. >Meanwhile my system is at risk. can anyone recommend virus software that >works well with JAWS that I can download for free or try temporarily until I >can upgrade? > > > >Thank you for reading- > > > >Cathryn Bonnette ESQ. From rthomas at emplmntattorney.com Wed Dec 19 15:27:20 2012 From: rthomas at emplmntattorney.com (Russ Thomas) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 07:27:20 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS In-Reply-To: <002701cdddf3$a7e50d10$f7af2730$@wiennergould.com> References: <000601cddd8e$2f908f70$8eb1ae50$@verizon.net> <002701cdddf3$a7e50d10$f7af2730$@wiennergould.com> Message-ID: <009d01cdddfd$568bf690$03a3e3b0$@com> Let me second that. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel K. Beitz Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 6:18 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS I think Microsoft Security Essentials works well with Jaws. Its accessible, effective and free. ------------------------------------------- Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI 48307 Phone: (248) 841-9405 Fax: (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:12 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS List: My apologies in advance if this seems to be off topic for the list. I'm not sure what other list to query. I needed virus protection a year ago and the state venderized dealer installed software inaccessible with JAWS. Now, an upgrade is needed and I'm waiting for red tape to unwind for an upgrade or change of software. Meanwhile my system is at risk. can anyone recommend virus software that works well with JAWS that I can download for free or try temporarily until I can upgrade? Thank you for reading- Cathryn Bonnette ESQ. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergould. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40emplmntattor ney.com From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Wed Dec 19 16:44:57 2012 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 09:44:57 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Virus Protection and JAWS References: <000601cddd8e$2f908f70$8eb1ae50$@verizon.net> <01cb01cddd92$24f03c60$6ed0b520$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Ms. Bonnette, I use Window-Eyes exclusively. Jaws just won't function on various web portals I need to gain access to daily. When I took its demo copy for a trial run, it fell flat!! As for virus checkers, I use Avast!! There's a free version and paid one. I've been using the free version for longer than five years and have had no problems as it updates in the background without bothering me. When it completes an update routine, it simply tells me in a female voice that virus database has been updated. I have Avast running on all the computers I have both at home and work. I sure hope it can work with Jaws, but you won't find out till you take it out on a test drive. Hope this helps, all the best. Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From tim at timeldermusic.com Thu Dec 20 00:20:19 2012 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 19:20:19 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion In-Reply-To: <3B058E630EE54423AFD3F6BE26BA4DCF@mycomputer> References: <25BBCF93DA6741DE9B2B5343BE1B8784@mycomputer> <0F6D57D4-2C5E-4940-842B-34BB41CA94D4@stmarytx.edu>, <6E412B93174A49F492AF39342147C148@HP8730notebook><3BF27D2A-742A-400B-B20C-741E6EE5691C@stmarytx.edu> <003f01cddc8c$d0550f60$70ff2e20$@timeldermusic.com> <3B058E630EE54423AFD3F6BE26BA4DCF@mycomputer> Message-ID: <019801cdde47$cb3b7c50$61b274f0$@timeldermusic.com> Sorry. Scansnap is not a printer. Just a scanner. -----Original Message----- From: Ross Doerr [mailto:rumpole at roadrunner.com] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 3:33 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion How is that Fujitsu Scansnap on toner usage? By the way, I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestion on scanner/printers, it is helpful. Since just about everyone on the list is using one type of assistive software, its nice to know how many products are working well with them. Very informative. Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Elder" To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion >I love my Fujitsu Scansnap. It is small, portable, automatically detects > page orientation, disgards blank pages, automatically produces OCR-scanned > pdfs re Abby Finereader, and its software controls are easy to use with > JAWS. > > Regards, > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dittman, Robert [mailto:rdittman at stmarytx.edu] > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 4:05 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion > > Well, Epson is also good. I use a mac and other apple products so they > just > work. > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 16, 2012, at 15:02, "Bryan Schulz" wrote: > >> hi, >> >> i had always favored hp but due to better defined/protruding buttons, i > decided to try epson about a year ago and my epson workforce 545 is easily > 10 times faster processing the request from openbook and throwing the text > on the screen than any of my hp units ever scanned. >> Bryan Schulz >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dittman, Robert" > >> To: "Blind Law Mailing List" >> Cc: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 2:37 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion >> >> >>> Ross, >>> >>> First I would like to express support for you during this loss in your > life. I know it is hard right now but your beloved printer is in a better > place and has joined all the departed office equipment through out the > ages > in the hope of printing again. >>> >>> I use the office jet 550 photo smart scanner, printer, combo. >>> >>> take care, >>> >>> Robert Dittman, J.D. studying for the tx bar I sit feb 2013 >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 16, 2012, at 14:32, "Ross Doerr" wrote: >>> >>>> Good afternoon everyone - >>>> I'm looking for a suggestion about a printer/scanner. My old faithful > one has finally passed away. >>>> I'm runnning JFW 14 with XP Pro and was wondering if anyone can suggest > which types that are on the market that work particularly well, and which > ones aren't quite as good. >>>> I confess that I like the fax capacity and the scanning, I use all of > that in conjunction with my work. >>>> I'm just looking for input on what others have found that works well >>>> and > with durability. >>>> One issue I wanted to ask about has to do with the ink toner - who gets > good "milage" out of toner in their scanner/printer? If you're faxing or > printing a lot, some of these products really go through it quickly. >>>> All suggestions welcome. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.ed > u >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.n > et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.ed > u > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.c om > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5466 - Release Date: 12/17/12 > From amarjain at amarjain.com Thu Dec 20 08:40:26 2012 From: amarjain at amarjain.com (Amar Jain) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 14:10:26 +0530 Subject: [blindlaw] Any material on insider trading? Message-ID: <988AD31E05264E3CA9F40A50993165D7@AmarVAIO> Hi List, I have to write a research assignment on comparative study of insider trading regulations, prevailing in different jurisdictions (U.S., U.K.) with focus on Indian regulations. Therefore, any material for U.S.’s regulations on insider trading with most relevant decisions will be of great use to me. Looking forward for your cooperation. Thanks and Regards, Amar Jain. E-mail: amarjain at amarjain.com Website: www.amarjain.com From CJECKEL at LAW.JMLS.EDU Fri Dec 21 00:07:58 2012 From: CJECKEL at LAW.JMLS.EDU (Jeckel, Christopher) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 00:07:58 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion In-Reply-To: <019801cdde47$cb3b7c50$61b274f0$@timeldermusic.com> References: <25BBCF93DA6741DE9B2B5343BE1B8784@mycomputer> <0F6D57D4-2C5E-4940-842B-34BB41CA94D4@stmarytx.edu>, <6E412B93174A49F492AF39342147C148@HP8730notebook><3BF27D2A-742A-400B-B20C-741E6EE5691C@stmarytx.edu> <003f01cddc8c$d0550f60$70ff2e20$@timeldermusic.com> <3B058E630EE54423AFD3F6BE26BA4DCF@mycomputer>, <019801cdde47$cb3b7c50$61b274f0$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: ________________________________________ From: blindlaw [blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Tim Elder [tim at timeldermusic.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 6:20 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion Sorry. Scansnap is not a printer. Just a scanner. -----Original Message----- From: Ross Doerr [mailto:rumpole at roadrunner.com] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 3:33 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion How is that Fujitsu Scansnap on toner usage? By the way, I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestion on scanner/printers, it is helpful. Since just about everyone on the list is using one type of assistive software, its nice to know how many products are working well with them. Very informative. Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Elder" To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion >I love my Fujitsu Scansnap. It is small, portable, automatically detects > page orientation, disgards blank pages, automatically produces OCR-scanned > pdfs re Abby Finereader, and its software controls are easy to use with > JAWS. > > Regards, > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dittman, Robert [mailto:rdittman at stmarytx.edu] > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 4:05 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion > > Well, Epson is also good. I use a mac and other apple products so they > just > work. > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 16, 2012, at 15:02, "Bryan Schulz" wrote: > >> hi, >> >> i had always favored hp but due to better defined/protruding buttons, i > decided to try epson about a year ago and my epson workforce 545 is easily > 10 times faster processing the request from openbook and throwing the text > on the screen than any of my hp units ever scanned. >> Bryan Schulz >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dittman, Robert" > >> To: "Blind Law Mailing List" >> Cc: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 2:37 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion >> >> >>> Ross, >>> >>> First I would like to express support for you during this loss in your > life. I know it is hard right now but your beloved printer is in a better > place and has joined all the departed office equipment through out the > ages > in the hope of printing again. >>> >>> I use the office jet 550 photo smart scanner, printer, combo. >>> >>> take care, >>> >>> Robert Dittman, J.D. studying for the tx bar I sit feb 2013 >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 16, 2012, at 14:32, "Ross Doerr" wrote: >>> >>>> Good afternoon everyone - >>>> I'm looking for a suggestion about a printer/scanner. My old faithful > one has finally passed away. >>>> I'm runnning JFW 14 with XP Pro and was wondering if anyone can suggest > which types that are on the market that work particularly well, and which > ones aren't quite as good. >>>> I confess that I like the fax capacity and the scanning, I use all of > that in conjunction with my work. >>>> I'm just looking for input on what others have found that works well >>>> and > with durability. >>>> One issue I wanted to ask about has to do with the ink toner - who gets > good "milage" out of toner in their scanner/printer? If you're faxing or > printing a lot, some of these products really go through it quickly. >>>> All suggestions welcome. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.ed > u >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.n > et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.ed > u > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.c om > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5466 - Release Date: 12/17/12 > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjeckel%40law.jmls.edu From rumpole at roadrunner.com Fri Dec 21 12:53:55 2012 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 07:53:55 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] New ADA Settlement agreement Message-ID: <1BC351756FDA4699AD677409347AFFCA@mycomputer> A new settlement agreement with Lesley University, in Cambridge, Massachusetts, has been added to www.ADA.gov. The agreement concerns reasonable modifications to Lesley's food services for students with celiac disease and food allergies. Among other things, the agreement requires modification to Lesley's policies and practices to enable easy access to gluten and allergen free food options in its cafeteria, maintenance of a dedicated space for students with food allergies to store and prepare foods, training, and, where necessary, a process to permit on-campus students to be excepted from the meal plan, and the payment of compensatory damages. If you are interested in learning more about the Americans with Disabilities Act, or the Department's settlement agreements, you may access the ADA website at www.ADA.gov or call the toll-free ADA Information Line at (800) 514-0301 or (800) 514-0383 (TTY). From jbalassa at valenciacollege.edu Fri Dec 21 13:01:57 2012 From: jbalassa at valenciacollege.edu (Julie Balassa) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 08:01:57 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion In-Reply-To: References: <25BBCF93DA6741DE9B2B5343BE1B8784@mycomputer> <0F6D57D4-2C5E-4940-842B-34BB41CA94D4@stmarytx.edu>, <6E412B93174A49F492AF39342147C148@HP8730notebook><3BF27D2A-742A-400B-B20C-741E6EE5691C@stmarytx.edu> <003f01cddc8c$d0550f60$70ff2e20$@timeldermusic.com> <3B058E630EE54423AFD3F6BE26BA4DCF@mycomputer>, <019801cdde47$cb3b7c50$61b274f0$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: <064E7ABA-374A-4E37-86D1-66FEE3F5A90C@valenciacollege.edu> Which fujitsu scansnap model are people using? I'm looking at the 1100s. jkb On Dec 20, 2012, at 7:07 PM, "Jeckel, Christopher" wrote: > > ________________________________________ > From: blindlaw [blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Tim Elder [tim at timeldermusic.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 6:20 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion > > Sorry. Scansnap is not a printer. Just a scanner. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ross Doerr [mailto:rumpole at roadrunner.com] > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 3:33 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion > > How is that Fujitsu Scansnap on toner usage? > By the way, I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestion on > scanner/printers, it is helpful. Since just about everyone on the list is > using one type of assistive software, its nice to know how many products are > working well with them. Very informative. > Ross > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Elder" > To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 2:29 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion > > >> I love my Fujitsu Scansnap. It is small, portable, automatically detects >> page orientation, disgards blank pages, automatically produces OCR-scanned >> pdfs re Abby Finereader, and its software controls are easy to use with >> JAWS. >> >> Regards, >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dittman, Robert [mailto:rdittman at stmarytx.edu] >> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 4:05 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion >> >> Well, Epson is also good. I use a mac and other apple products so they >> just >> work. >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 16, 2012, at 15:02, "Bryan Schulz" wrote: >> >>> hi, >>> >>> i had always favored hp but due to better defined/protruding buttons, i >> decided to try epson about a year ago and my epson workforce 545 is easily >> 10 times faster processing the request from openbook and throwing the text >> on the screen than any of my hp units ever scanned. >>> Bryan Schulz >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dittman, Robert" >> >>> To: "Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Cc: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 2:37 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion >>> >>> >>>> Ross, >>>> >>>> First I would like to express support for you during this loss in your >> life. I know it is hard right now but your beloved printer is in a better >> place and has joined all the departed office equipment through out the >> ages >> in the hope of printing again. >>>> >>>> I use the office jet 550 photo smart scanner, printer, combo. >>>> >>>> take care, >>>> >>>> Robert Dittman, J.D. studying for the tx bar I sit feb 2013 >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Dec 16, 2012, at 14:32, "Ross Doerr" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Good afternoon everyone - >>>>> I'm looking for a suggestion about a printer/scanner. My old faithful >> one has finally passed away. >>>>> I'm runnning JFW 14 with XP Pro and was wondering if anyone can suggest >> which types that are on the market that work particularly well, and which >> ones aren't quite as good. >>>>> I confess that I like the fax capacity and the scanning, I use all of >> that in conjunction with my work. >>>>> I'm just looking for input on what others have found that works well >>>>> and >> with durability. >>>>> One issue I wanted to ask about has to do with the ink toner - who gets >> good "milage" out of toner in their scanner/printer? If you're faxing or >> printing a lot, some of these products really go through it quickly. >>>>> All suggestions welcome. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.ed >> u >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.n >> et >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmarytx.ed >> u >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.c > om >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5466 - Release Date: 12/17/12 >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjeckel%40law.jmls.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jbalassa%40valenciacollege.edu > From rthomas at emplmntattorney.com Fri Dec 21 14:05:53 2012 From: rthomas at emplmntattorney.com (Russ Thomas) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 06:05:53 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion In-Reply-To: <064E7ABA-374A-4E37-86D1-66FEE3F5A90C@valenciacollege.edu> References: <25BBCF93DA6741DE9B2B5343BE1B8784@mycomputer> <0F6D57D4-2C5E-4940-842B-34BB41CA94D4@stmarytx.edu>, <6E412B93174A49F492AF39342147C148@HP8730notebook><3BF27D2A-742A-400B-B20C-741E6EE5691C@stmarytx.edu> <003f01cddc8c$d0550f60$70ff2e20$@timeldermusic.com> <3B058E630EE54423AFD3F6BE26BA4DCF@mycomputer>, <019801cdde47$cb3b7c50$61b274f0$@timeldermusic.com> <064E7ABA-374A-4E37-86D1-66FEE3F5A90C@valenciacollege.edu> Message-ID: <000f01cddf84$4a2fb4d0$de8f1e70$@com> There is a small portable scanner, and a larger scanner that should stay in the office. I don't remember the model numbers. Everything I have read from law firm consultants highly recommend these scanners. My office model is without doubt the best scanner I have ever owned. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie Balassa Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 5:02 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion Which fujitsu scansnap model are people using? I'm looking at the 1100s. jkb On Dec 20, 2012, at 7:07 PM, "Jeckel, Christopher" wrote: > > ________________________________________ > From: blindlaw [blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Tim Elder > [tim at timeldermusic.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 6:20 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion > > Sorry. Scansnap is not a printer. Just a scanner. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ross Doerr [mailto:rumpole at roadrunner.com] > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 3:33 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion > > How is that Fujitsu Scansnap on toner usage? > By the way, I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestion on > scanner/printers, it is helpful. Since just about everyone on the list > is using one type of assistive software, its nice to know how many > products are working well with them. Very informative. > Ross > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Elder" > To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 2:29 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion > > >> I love my Fujitsu Scansnap. It is small, portable, automatically >> detects page orientation, disgards blank pages, automatically >> produces OCR-scanned pdfs re Abby Finereader, and its software >> controls are easy to use with JAWS. >> >> Regards, >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dittman, Robert [mailto:rdittman at stmarytx.edu] >> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 4:05 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion >> >> Well, Epson is also good. I use a mac and other apple products so >> they just work. >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 16, 2012, at 15:02, "Bryan Schulz" wrote: >> >>> hi, >>> >>> i had always favored hp but due to better defined/protruding >>> buttons, i >> decided to try epson about a year ago and my epson workforce 545 is >> easily >> 10 times faster processing the request from openbook and throwing the >> text on the screen than any of my hp units ever scanned. >>> Bryan Schulz >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dittman, Robert" >> >>> To: "Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Cc: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 2:37 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [BULK] looking for a Suggestion >>> >>> >>>> Ross, >>>> >>>> First I would like to express support for you during this loss in >>>> your >> life. I know it is hard right now but your beloved printer is in a >> better place and has joined all the departed office equipment through >> out the ages in the hope of printing again. >>>> >>>> I use the office jet 550 photo smart scanner, printer, combo. >>>> >>>> take care, >>>> >>>> Robert Dittman, J.D. studying for the tx bar I sit feb 2013 >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Dec 16, 2012, at 14:32, "Ross Doerr" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Good afternoon everyone - >>>>> I'm looking for a suggestion about a printer/scanner. My old >>>>> faithful >> one has finally passed away. >>>>> I'm runnning JFW 14 with XP Pro and was wondering if anyone can >>>>> suggest >> which types that are on the market that work particularly well, and >> which ones aren't quite as good. >>>>> I confess that I like the fax capacity and the scanning, I use all >>>>> of >> that in conjunction with my work. >>>>> I'm just looking for input on what others have found that works >>>>> well and >> with durability. >>>>> One issue I wanted to ask about has to do with the ink toner - who >>>>> gets >> good "milage" out of toner in their scanner/printer? If you're >> faxing or printing a lot, some of these products really go through it quickly. >>>>> All suggestions welcome. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >> blindlaw: >>>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmar > ytx.ed >> u >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >> blindlaw: >>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcgl > obal.n >> et >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >> blindlaw: >>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rdittman%40stmar > ytx.ed >> u >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadru > nner.c > om >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5466 - Release Date: >> 12/17/12 >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjeckel%40law.jm > ls.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jbalassa%40valen > ciacollege.edu > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40emplmntattor ney.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 23:53:13 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 16:53:13 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law and working in large restaurant kitchens? Message-ID: Hello list, My name is Kirt Manwaring. Up until now, I've had no real need to post to this list (even though I've thoroughly enjoyed watching the discussion that's taken place here), but I have a question that's recently come up regarding the legality of a totally blind person working in the kitchen of a large fast-food restaurant. There is a good chance I'll be hired by a local Macdonalds that is owned by a close family friend; all things considered, he's fairly willing to give me a fair shot, as far as I can tell. However, he just informed me that, due to federal law, I would be unable to do things in the industrial kitchen that would conceivably threaten my safety or the safety of those around me. As an example, he said I would be unable to make a salad, because I would be using a knife and, acording to federal law, me using a knife in a kitchen of a large restaurant poses a safety risk. I probably won't fight it, because this is only a temporary job and I doubt I would make any progress, but I'm just curious if my family friend is correct, or if Macdonalds is simply misinterpreting the direct threat portion of the ADA. Any thoughts would be very much appreciated. Cordially submitted, Kirt Manwaring From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Mon Dec 24 02:57:21 2012 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 21:57:21 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law and working in large restaurant kitchens? Message-ID: <20121224025721.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> I am aware of no such provision. In general, the "direct threat" defense must be based on real evidence, which the employer has the burden of proving, not just the assumption that a blind person using a knife would pose a threat to himself or others. Ray Wayne ----- Original Message ----- ,f3 ,kirt ,manw>+ ,to3 ,,nfb,'net ,bl ,law ,mail+ ,li/ , Date: Sunday, Dec 23, 2012 18:53:46 Subject: [bllaw] Federal law and working in large restaurant kitchens? > > > Hello list, > My name is Kirt Manwaring. Up until now, I've had no real need to > post to this list (even though I've thoroughly enjoyed watching the > discussion that's taken place here), but I have a question that's > recently come up regarding the legality of a totally blind person > working in the kitchen of a large fast-food restaurant. There is a > good chance I'll be hired by a local Macdonalds that is owned by a > close family friend; all things considered, he's fairly willing to > give me a fair shot, as far as I can tell. However, he just informed > me that, due to federal law, I would be unable to do things in the > industrial kitchen that would conceivably threaten my safety or the > safety of those around me. As an example, he said I would be unable > to make a salad, because I would be using a knife and, acording to > federal law, me using a knife in a kitchen of a large restaurant poses > a safety risk. I probably won't fight it, because this is only a > temporary job and I doubt I would make any progress, but I'm just > curious if my family friend is correct, or if Macdonalds is simply > misinterpreting the direct threat portion of the ADA. Any thoughts > would be very much appreciated. > Cordially submitted, > Kirt Manwaring > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list @> blindlaw at nfbnet.org @> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: @> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net Mon Dec 24 05:22:18 2012 From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 22:22:18 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law and working in large restaurant kitchens? Message-ID: There is probably no federal law regarding the knife thingy. What you said, Kirt, was that he said you couldn't make a salad. I know how to make a salad and had to do it in an industrial sized kitchen with other people working in it. Blind people no less. The employer said you couldn't, but there is no way I can prove, as an employer at a McDonald's for instance, that blind people can't chop lettuce, onions, celery, etc. The Colorado Center for the Blind expected me to chop things, so I chop things with knives all the time when I get a chance. Btw, I have an incomplete but albeit good knife set. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: ray wayne + , Date: Sunday, Dec 23, 2012 18:53:46 Subject: [bllaw] Federal law and working in large restaurant kitchens? Hello list, My name is Kirt Manwaring. Up until now, I've had no real need to post to this list (even though I've thoroughly enjoyed watching the discussion that's taken place here), but I have a question that's recently come up regarding the legality of a totally blind person working in the kitchen of a large fast-food restaurant. There is a good chance I'll be hired by a local Macdonalds that is owned by a close family friend; all things considered, he's fairly willing to give me a fair shot, as far as I can tell. However, he just informed me that, due to federal law, I would be unable to do things in the industrial kitchen that would conceivably threaten my safety or the safety of those around me. As an example, he said I would be unable to make a salad, because I would be using a knife and, acording to federal law, me using a knife in a kitchen of a large restaurant poses a safety risk. I probably won't fight it, because this is only a temporary job and I doubt I would make any progress, but I'm just curious if my family friend is correct, or if Macdonalds is simply misinterpreting the direct threat portion of the ADA. Any thoughts would be very much appreciated. Cordially submitted, Kirt Manwaring _______________________________________________ bllaw mailing list @> blindlaw at nfbnet.org @> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: @> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40n yc.rr.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/denverqueen 1107%40comcast.net From pattichang at att.net Mon Dec 24 12:56:18 2012 From: pattichang at att.net (Gregory Chang Patti) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 06:56:18 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law and working in large restaurant kitchens? Message-ID: <2317F818-1080-4BDB-AA4C-6E729FCC2940@att.net> Laura Martin is in Illinois worked at Charlie Treners restaurant. You may wish to speak with her. Patti S. Gregory-Chang NFB Scholarship Comm. Chair Sent from my iPhone On Dec 23, 2012, at 11:22 PM, Beth Taurasi wrote: > There is probably no federal law regarding the knife thingy. What you said, Kirt, was that he said you couldn't make a salad. I know how to make a salad and had to do it in an industrial sized kitchen with other people working in it. Blind people no less. The employer said you couldn't, but there is no way I can prove, as an employer at a McDonald's for instance, that blind people can't chop lettuce, onions, celery, etc. The Colorado Center for the Blind expected me to chop things, so I chop things with knives all the time when I get a chance. Btw, I have an incomplete but albeit good knife set. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ray wayne To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 21:57:21 -0500 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Federal law and working in large restaurant kitchens? > > I am aware of no such provision. In general, the "direct threat" defense must be based on real evidence, which the employer has the burden of proving, not just the assumption that a blind person using a knife would pose a threat to himself or others. > Ray Wayne > > > ----- Original Message ----- > ,f3 ,kirt ,manw>+ ,to3 ,,nfb,'net ,bl ,law ,mail+ ,li/ , > Date: Sunday, Dec 23, 2012 18:53:46 > Subject: [bllaw] Federal law and working in large restaurant kitchens? > > > > Hello list, > My name is Kirt Manwaring. Up until now, I've had no real need to > post to this list (even though I've thoroughly enjoyed watching the > discussion that's taken place here), but I have a question that's > recently come up regarding the legality of a totally blind person > working in the kitchen of a large fast-food restaurant. There is a > good chance I'll be hired by a local Macdonalds that is owned by a > close family friend; all things considered, he's fairly willing to > give me a fair shot, as far as I can tell. However, he just informed > me that, due to federal law, I would be unable to do things in the > industrial kitchen that would conceivably threaten my safety or the > safety of those around me. As an example, he said I would be unable > to make a salad, because I would be using a knife and, acording to > federal law, me using a knife in a kitchen of a large restaurant poses > a safety risk. I probably won't fight it, because this is only a > temporary job and I doubt I would make any progress, but I'm just > curious if my family friend is correct, or if Macdonalds is simply > misinterpreting the direct threat portion of the ADA. Any thoughts > would be very much appreciated. > Cordially submitted, > Kirt Manwaring > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > @> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > @> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > @> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40n > yc.rr.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/denverqueen > 1107%40comcast.net > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net From rumpole at roadrunner.com Mon Dec 24 13:08:04 2012 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 08:08:04 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law and working in large restaurant kitchens? References: Message-ID: <1657F1D5A73040E9B6F730F487D791F0@mycomputer> Hello Kirt: I cannot say that I have heard that one in a very long time. The logic of the interpretation of any federal law that you relate in your post is not at all accurate and is, in my view, discriminatory. Were that logic to be widely accepted, any blind person doing a job involving a knife or using one at home would be subject to review by an authority under this law he is referring to. You note that he is a family friend and this would be a temporary job, so your reluctance to pursue the matter is understandable. Often preserving family peace is a very good idea in the long run. But no, his interpretation of federal law is, in my opinion, inacurate. Employers who say things like that have usually spoken with someone who related a horror story of some sort where an individual with a disability either sufferred horrible injury on the job or sued some employer into bankruptcy on the basis of some ridiculous legal claim, and such tales of horror are rarely verifiable. I have used sharp knives for a very long time in my home kitchen as well as in cooking classes that I used to teach when I worked at a nonprofit association for the blind teaching home skills. Yes folks, in addition to being an attorney I used to teach cooking classes. I am also an avid collector of swords. Nobody in any of my classes ever cut their fingers nor did they injure anyone around them with one. This posting is an interesting one to me because I had thought statements by employers such as this one had long since fallen by the way side. Sadly I am wrong. Since today is Christmas Eave, I send my holiday wishes out to you Kirt, and to everyone else on this list. May you have a wonderful Christmas and Happy New Year. Ross A. Doerr Attorney at law "Eat, drink and be merry, the diet doesn't begin until January 2" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirt Manwaring" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 6:53 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law and working in large restaurant kitchens? > Hello list, > My name is Kirt Manwaring. Up until now, I've had no real need to > post to this list (even though I've thoroughly enjoyed watching the > discussion that's taken place here), but I have a question that's > recently come up regarding the legality of a totally blind person > working in the kitchen of a large fast-food restaurant. There is a > good chance I'll be hired by a local Macdonalds that is owned by a > close family friend; all things considered, he's fairly willing to > give me a fair shot, as far as I can tell. However, he just informed > me that, due to federal law, I would be unable to do things in the > industrial kitchen that would conceivably threaten my safety or the > safety of those around me. As an example, he said I would be unable > to make a salad, because I would be using a knife and, acording to > federal law, me using a knife in a kitchen of a large restaurant poses > a safety risk. I probably won't fight it, because this is only a > temporary job and I doubt I would make any progress, but I'm just > curious if my family friend is correct, or if Macdonalds is simply > misinterpreting the direct threat portion of the ADA. Any thoughts > would be very much appreciated. > Cordially submitted, > Kirt Manwaring > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2637/5480 - Release Date: 12/23/12 > From dandrews at visi.com Mon Dec 24 21:08:48 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 15:08:48 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law and working in large restaurant kitchens? In-Reply-To: <1657F1D5A73040E9B6F730F487D791F0@mycomputer> References: <1657F1D5A73040E9B6F730F487D791F0@mycomputer> Message-ID: <50D8C460.9030207@visi.com> You could always ask the guy to "show you the specific law." If you don't want to antagonize him, you could say you need to know for future reference. I doubt he can come up with anything! Dave On 12/24/2012 7:08 AM, Ross Doerr wrote: > Hello Kirt: > I cannot say that I have heard that one in a very long time. The logic > of the interpretation of any federal law that you relate in your post > is not at all accurate and is, in my view, discriminatory. Were that > logic to be widely accepted, any blind person doing a job involving a > knife or using one at home would be subject to review by an authority > under this law he is referring to. > You note that he is a family friend and this would be a temporary job, > so your reluctance to pursue the matter is understandable. Often > preserving family peace is a very good idea in the long run. > But no, his interpretation of federal law is, in my opinion, inacurate. > Employers who say things like that have usually spoken with someone > who related a horror story of some sort where an individual with a > disability either sufferred horrible injury on the job or sued some > employer into bankruptcy on the basis of some ridiculous legal claim, > and such tales of horror are rarely verifiable. > I have used sharp knives for a very long time in my home kitchen as > well as in cooking classes that I used to teach when I worked at a > nonprofit association for the blind teaching home skills. > Yes folks, in addition to being an attorney I used to teach cooking > classes. I am also an avid collector of swords. > Nobody in any of my classes ever cut their fingers nor did they > injure anyone around them with one. > This posting is an interesting one to me because I had thought > statements by employers such as this one had long since fallen by the > way side. Sadly I am wrong. > Since today is Christmas Eave, I send my holiday wishes out to you > Kirt, and to everyone else on this list. > May you have a wonderful Christmas and Happy New Year. > Ross A. Doerr Attorney at law > "Eat, drink and be merry, the diet doesn't begin until January 2" > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirt Manwaring" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 6:53 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Federal law and working in large restaurant kitchens? > > >> Hello list, >> My name is Kirt Manwaring. Up until now, I've had no real need to >> post to this list (even though I've thoroughly enjoyed watching the >> discussion that's taken place here), but I have a question that's >> recently come up regarding the legality of a totally blind person >> working in the kitchen of a large fast-food restaurant. There is a >> good chance I'll be hired by a local Macdonalds that is owned by a >> close family friend; all things considered, he's fairly willing to >> give me a fair shot, as far as I can tell. However, he just informed >> me that, due to federal law, I would be unable to do things in the >> industrial kitchen that would conceivably threaten my safety or the >> safety of those around me. As an example, he said I would be unable >> to make a salad, because I would be using a knife and, acording to >> federal law, me using a knife in a kitchen of a large restaurant poses >> a safety risk. I probably won't fight it, because this is only a >> temporary job and I doubt I would make any progress, but I'm just >> curious if my family friend is correct, or if Macdonalds is simply >> misinterpreting the direct threat portion of the ADA. Any thoughts >> would be very much appreciated. >> Cordially submitted, >> Kirt Manwaring From rumpole at roadrunner.com Tue Dec 25 15:50:01 2012 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 10:50:01 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Merry Christmas to all Message-ID: <6C7BD66335B2467888AB46E1F9B9E715@mycomputer> >From Ross Doerr in Maine May love, peace and good furtune be your companion for the upcoming year. And, just for fun, this is what the weather is like here in Maine today. Good morning Augusta. We are under a Winter Storm Watch This morning it is overcast with a chance of snow in the morning, then mostly cloudy. High of 30F. Winds less than 5 mph. Tonight it will be partly cloudy, then clear. Low of 14F. Winds less than 5 mph. The readings from my LaCrosse weather station are: The humidity is 76% with a dew point of 20.3ºF and a wind chill of 27.0ºF. The temperature is 27.0ºF. Presently we have West Southwest winds between 1.3 MPH and 4.9 MPH. Our Barometric pressure is 30.00/HPA 1015.9 and rising with a weather graphic indicating sun. The UV rating is 0 out of 16, sunset will be at 4:05 PM with Moon Rise at 2:12 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, and the moon phase is waxing gibbous. For the pilots out there: Raw METAR is - METAR KAUG 251253Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR M08/M11 A3005 RMK AO2 SLP182 T10781106 Visibility is 10.0 miles/16.1 Kilometers with a clear ceiling. We have had no precipitation in this area in the past 24 hours. >From all of us here in Augusta Maine to you and yours where ever you may be, have a very merry Christmas and happy new year. May peace begin to spread with the same speed as conflict has. And, just for some holiday fun, try the following coffee mixture *A Holiday Coffee mix Place 1/2 cup ground coffee, 1.5 tsp. ground cinnamon, 1/2 tsp. ground nutmeg in a coffee filter/basket for your coffeemaker. Add 5 cups water to coffeemaker and brew as usual. Combine 1 cup milk (any kind; fat free works, too), 1/4 cup packed brown sugar, and 1/3 cup chocolate syrup (like Hershey's) in a heavy saucepan. Cook over low heat, stirring constantly, until sugar dissolves. Stir in brewed coffee and 1 tsp vanilla. Serve with whipped cream. Makes 6 servings. Add your own preferred "octane" to it (Of course its bad for you. Its Christmas) From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 19:26:30 2012 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 19:26:30 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Corporations Law, College Text Books? Message-ID: Hi all If anyone has college texts on corporations law, either in the US, for a specific state jurisdiction e.g. Delaware (preferably) or for other countries and if you could let me have these, I would be most grateful. Thanks G From dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 30 19:27:06 2012 From: dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net (Daniel McBride) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 13:27:06 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind Message-ID: <005f01cde6c3$a8062a80$f8127f80$@sbcglobal.net> Today I heard a radio commercial about donating your car, boat or motorcycle to Heritage for the Blind, a foundation helping the blind and visually impaired. I had never heard of said foundation before today. I have located their website and shall be reviewing same. Are any of you familiar with Heritage for the blind? If so, I would appreciate any thoughts regarding same. Dan McBride, Attorney Fort Worth, Texas From blinddog3 at charter.net Sun Dec 30 19:40:03 2012 From: blinddog3 at charter.net (Steven Johnson) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 13:40:03 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind In-Reply-To: <005f01cde6c3$a8062a80$f8127f80$@sbcglobal.net> References: <005f01cde6c3$a8062a80$f8127f80$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <000001cde6c5$76dbe240$6493a6c0$@charter.net> These ads are all over the airwaves, and I hear them all of the time. I hear similar ads to donate used vehicles like to the Rawhide Boys Ranch, and always wonder how many vehicles are actually donated? I guess I don't worry too much about it as it is just another way for a non-profit to raise funds; really no different from any other non-profit with implementing innovative ways to raise funds as it is obviously legal. JMO Steve -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 1:27 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind Today I heard a radio commercial about donating your car, boat or motorcycle to Heritage for the Blind, a foundation helping the blind and visually impaired. I had never heard of said foundation before today. I have located their website and shall be reviewing same. Are any of you familiar with Heritage for the blind? If so, I would appreciate any thoughts regarding same. Dan McBride, Attorney Fort Worth, Texas _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne t From potbelliedjazz at aol.com Sun Dec 30 20:09:22 2012 From: potbelliedjazz at aol.com (Hunter Jozwiak) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 15:09:22 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind Message-ID: I've never heard of it, apart from the commercials on the radio. From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 30 20:23:05 2012 From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 14:23:05 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind References: <005f01cde6c3$a8062a80$f8127f80$@sbcglobal.net> <000001cde6c5$76dbe240$6493a6c0$@charter.net> Message-ID: <2881AF172F2A43CBB1B390A8DF0722A0@HP8730notebook> they are a scam as all that heritage does is send out literature but that avoids them from getting thrown off the radio. Bryan Schulz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Johnson" To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind > These ads are all over the airwaves, and I hear them all of the time. I > hear similar ads to donate used vehicles like to the Rawhide Boys Ranch, > and > always wonder how many vehicles are actually donated? I guess I don't > worry > too much about it as it is just another way for a non-profit to raise > funds; > really no different from any other non-profit with implementing innovative > ways to raise funds as it is obviously legal. > > > JMO > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel > McBride > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 1:27 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind > > Today I heard a radio commercial about donating your car, boat or > motorcycle > to Heritage for the Blind, a foundation helping the blind and visually > impaired. I had never heard of said foundation before today. > > > > I have located their website and shall be reviewing same. Are any of you > familiar with Heritage for the blind? If so, I would appreciate any > thoughts regarding same. > > > > Dan McBride, Attorney > > Fort Worth, Texas > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne > t > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sun Dec 30 20:59:41 2012 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 15:59:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind References: <005f01cde6c3$a8062a80$f8127f80$@sbcglobal.net><000001cde6c5$76dbe240$6493a6c0$@charter.net> <2881AF172F2A43CBB1B390A8DF0722A0@HP8730notebook> Message-ID: <000301cde6d0$977dea10$0602a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> No one donates to them inmy area. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Schulz" To: ; "Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind > they are a scam as all that heritage does is send out literature but that > avoids them from getting thrown off the radio. > > Bryan Schulz > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steven Johnson" > To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 1:40 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind > > >> These ads are all over the airwaves, and I hear them all of the time. I >> hear similar ads to donate used vehicles like to the Rawhide Boys Ranch, >> and >> always wonder how many vehicles are actually donated? I guess I don't >> worry >> too much about it as it is just another way for a non-profit to raise >> funds; >> really no different from any other non-profit with implementing >> innovative >> ways to raise funds as it is obviously legal. >> >> >> JMO >> Steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel >> McBride >> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 1:27 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind >> >> Today I heard a radio commercial about donating your car, boat or >> motorcycle >> to Heritage for the Blind, a foundation helping the blind and visually >> impaired. I had never heard of said foundation before today. >> >> >> >> I have located their website and shall be reviewing same. Are any of you >> familiar with Heritage for the blind? If so, I would appreciate any >> thoughts regarding same. >> >> >> >> Dan McBride, Attorney >> >> Fort Worth, Texas >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne >> t >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 30 21:04:34 2012 From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 15:04:34 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind References: <005f01cde6c3$a8062a80$f8127f80$@sbcglobal.net><000001cde6c5$76dbe240$6493a6c0$@charter.net><2881AF172F2A43CBB1B390A8DF0722A0@HP8730notebook> <000301cde6d0$977dea10$0602a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <8BEF94555BFE498288882B8919A61D02@HP8730notebook> how would anyone know that? Bryan Schulz ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind > No one donates to them inmy area. RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bryan Schulz" > To: ; "Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 3:23 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind > > >> they are a scam as all that heritage does is send out literature but that >> avoids them from getting thrown off the radio. >> >> Bryan Schulz >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steven Johnson" >> To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" >> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 1:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind >> >> >>> These ads are all over the airwaves, and I hear them all of the time. I >>> hear similar ads to donate used vehicles like to the Rawhide Boys Ranch, >>> and >>> always wonder how many vehicles are actually donated? I guess I don't >>> worry >>> too much about it as it is just another way for a non-profit to raise >>> funds; >>> really no different from any other non-profit with implementing >>> innovative >>> ways to raise funds as it is obviously legal. >>> >>> >>> JMO >>> Steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel >>> McBride >>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 1:27 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind >>> >>> Today I heard a radio commercial about donating your car, boat or >>> motorcycle >>> to Heritage for the Blind, a foundation helping the blind and visually >>> impaired. I had never heard of said foundation before today. >>> >>> >>> >>> I have located their website and shall be reviewing same. Are any of >>> you >>> familiar with Heritage for the blind? If so, I would appreciate any >>> thoughts regarding same. >>> >>> >>> >>> Dan McBride, Attorney >>> >>> Fort Worth, Texas >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne >>> t >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net From withat at msn.com Sun Dec 30 22:02:48 2012 From: withat at msn.com (Johnston) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 14:02:48 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind References: <005f01cde6c3$a8062a80$f8127f80$@sbcglobal.net><000001cde6c5$76dbe240$6493a6c0$@charter.net><2881AF172F2A43CBB1B390A8DF0722A0@HP8730notebook><000301cde6d0$977dea10$0602a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> <8BEF94555BFE498288882B8919A61D02@HP8730notebook> Message-ID: I've heard their ads for years in my area (Portland). I don't like the ads because they come across as condescending in my opinion: the blind are "such a deserving group." Two cents. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Schulz" To: "Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind > how would anyone know that? > > Bryan Schulz > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: "Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 2:59 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind > > >> No one donates to them inmy area. RJ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bryan Schulz" >> To: ; "Blind Law Mailing List" >> >> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 3:23 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind >> >> >>> they are a scam as all that heritage does is send out literature but >>> that avoids them from getting thrown off the radio. >>> >>> Bryan Schulz >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steven Johnson" >>> To: "'Blind Law Mailing List'" >>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 1:40 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind >>> >>> >>>> These ads are all over the airwaves, and I hear them all of the time. >>>> I >>>> hear similar ads to donate used vehicles like to the Rawhide Boys >>>> Ranch, and >>>> always wonder how many vehicles are actually donated? I guess I don't >>>> worry >>>> too much about it as it is just another way for a non-profit to raise >>>> funds; >>>> really no different from any other non-profit with implementing >>>> innovative >>>> ways to raise funds as it is obviously legal. >>>> >>>> >>>> JMO >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel >>>> McBride >>>> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 1:27 PM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind >>>> >>>> Today I heard a radio commercial about donating your car, boat or >>>> motorcycle >>>> to Heritage for the Blind, a foundation helping the blind and visually >>>> impaired. I had never heard of said foundation before today. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I have located their website and shall be reviewing same. Are any of >>>> you >>>> familiar with Heritage for the blind? If so, I would appreciate any >>>> thoughts regarding same. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dan McBride, Attorney >>>> >>>> Fort Worth, Texas >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne >>>> t >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/withat%40msn.com > From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Sun Dec 30 23:21:35 2012 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 18:21:35 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind Message-ID: <20121230232135.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> I have never heard of them doing anything positive for any blind guys. I would not be surprised if it is a scam, though I don't have enough information to say that with certainty. Ray Wayne ----- Original Message ----- ,f3 ,daniel ,mc,bride ,to3 8,bl ,law ,mail+ ,li/0 , Date: Sunday, Dec 30, 2012 14:28:49 Subject: [bllaw] Heritage for the Blind > > > Today I heard a radio commercial about donating your car, boat or motorcycle > to Heritage for the Blind, a foundation helping the blind and visually > impaired. I had never heard of said foundation before today. > > > > I have located their website and shall be reviewing same. Are any of you > familiar with Heritage for the blind? If so, I would appreciate any > thoughts regarding same. > > > > Dan McBride, Attorney > > Fort Worth, Texas > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list @> blindlaw at nfbnet.org @> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: @> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Dec 30 23:25:51 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 16:25:51 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind In-Reply-To: <20121230232135.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> References: <20121230232135.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: <574F3B4C-C490-40A3-8417-8D3D74228856@gmail.com> I think I've heard these ads to, once or twice. If the blind are "such a deserving group,"why don't we just donate to the national Federation of the blind or American Council of the blind instead? Just my two cents, Kirt Sent from my iPhone On Dec 30, 2012, at 4:21 PM, ray wayne wrote: > I have never heard of them doing anything positive for any blind guys. I would not be surprised if it is a scam, though I don't have enough information to say that with certainty. > Ray Wayne > > > ----- Original Message ----- > ,f3 ,daniel ,mc,bride > ,to3 8,bl ,law ,mail+ ,li/0 , > Date: Sunday, Dec 30, 2012 14:28:49 > Subject: [bllaw] Heritage for the Blind > >> >> >> Today I heard a radio commercial about donating your car, boat or motorcycle >> to Heritage for the Blind, a foundation helping the blind and visually >> impaired. I had never heard of said foundation before today. >> >> >> >> I have located their website and shall be reviewing same. Are any of you >> familiar with Heritage for the blind? If so, I would appreciate any >> thoughts regarding same. >> >> >> >> Dan McBride, Attorney >> >> Fort Worth, Texas >> >> _______________________________________________ >> bllaw mailing list > @> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > @> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > @> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com From wmodnl at hotmail.com Mon Dec 31 00:27:07 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:27:07 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind In-Reply-To: <005f01cde6c3$a8062a80$f8127f80$@sbcglobal.net> References: <005f01cde6c3$a8062a80$f8127f80$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: I here these adds all-of-the time, on the radio in Boston. Thought I was crazy since, I was the only one who heard of the organization. Have a good evening. Sent from my iPad On Dec 30, 2012, at 2:28 PM, "Daniel McBride" wrote: > Today I heard a radio commercial about donating your car, boat or motorcycle > to Heritage for the Blind, a foundation helping the blind and visually > impaired. I had never heard of said foundation before today. > > > > I have located their website and shall be reviewing same. Are any of you > familiar with Heritage for the blind? If so, I would appreciate any > thoughts regarding same. > > > > Dan McBride, Attorney > > Fort Worth, Texas > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Mon Dec 31 00:37:17 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 18:37:17 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind In-Reply-To: <005f01cde6c3$a8062a80$f8127f80$@sbcglobal.net> References: <005f01cde6c3$a8062a80$f8127f80$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: If you search the nfbnet.org archives, you will see several discussions about them. In general, they are not held in high esteem by the blind community, no one seems to know much about what they do, it looks like founders get paid a lot, and they spend a lot on advertising. Dave At 01:27 PM 12/30/2012, you wrote: >Today I heard a radio commercial about donating your car, boat or motorcycle >to Heritage for the Blind, a foundation helping the blind and visually >impaired. I had never heard of said foundation before today. > > > >I have located their website and shall be reviewing same. Are any of you >familiar with Heritage for the blind? If so, I would appreciate any >thoughts regarding same. > > > >Dan McBride, Attorney > >Fort Worth, Texas From steve.jacobson at visi.com Mon Dec 31 01:23:26 2012 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:23:26 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind Message-ID: The issue is more that it is hard to get information as to what happens to the money. At least here in Minnesota, the other people asking for car donations are well known and well recognized charities. As Dave mentioned, this subject has come up on other lists and people seem unable to really get a sense of what funds are used for. Some of their ads are national, particularly during the baseball play-offs and world series, so it isn't surprising that many of us have heard the ads around the country. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 13:40:03 -0600, Steven Johnson wrote: >These ads are all over the airwaves, and I hear them all of the time. I >hear similar ads to donate used vehicles like to the Rawhide Boys Ranch, and >always wonder how many vehicles are actually donated? I guess I don't worry >too much about it as it is just another way for a non-profit to raise funds; >really no different from any other non-profit with implementing innovative >ways to raise funds as it is obviously legal. >JMO >Steve >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel >McBride >Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 1:27 PM >To: Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind >Today I heard a radio commercial about donating your car, boat or motorcycle >to Heritage for the Blind, a foundation helping the blind and visually >impaired. I had never heard of said foundation before today. > >I have located their website and shall be reviewing same. Are any of you >familiar with Heritage for the blind? If so, I would appreciate any >thoughts regarding same. > >Dan McBride, Attorney >Fort Worth, Texas >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.ne >t >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 31 04:18:52 2012 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:18:52 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind In-Reply-To: <005f01cde6c3$a8062a80$f8127f80$@sbcglobal.net> References: <005f01cde6c3$a8062a80$f8127f80$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <2CACD54504D54E7C88FED33D444C4BE6@Spike> I've heard of them but don't recall anything real positive. Probably a review of their 990 forms with IRS and checking their rating with the Better Business Bureau or Charitynavigator.org is in order. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel McBride" To: "Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:27 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind > Today I heard a radio commercial about donating your car, boat or > motorcycle > to Heritage for the Blind, a foundation helping the blind and visually > impaired. I had never heard of said foundation before today. > > > > I have located their website and shall be reviewing same. Are any of you > familiar with Heritage for the blind? If so, I would appreciate any > thoughts regarding same. > > > > Dan McBride, Attorney > > Fort Worth, Texas > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From souljourner at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 31 04:49:39 2012 From: souljourner at sbcglobal.net (Susan Tabor) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 22:49:39 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind In-Reply-To: <2CACD54504D54E7C88FED33D444C4BE6@Spike> References: <005f01cde6c3$a8062a80$f8127f80$@sbcglobal.net> <2CACD54504D54E7C88FED33D444C4BE6@Spike> Message-ID: <000001cde712$3fe37030$bfaa5090$@sbcglobal.net> Hi, listers: I heard that the state of New York is investigating them for fraud. Anyone have details about this? Thanks! Susan Tabor -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:19 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind I've heard of them but don't recall anything real positive. Probably a review of their 990 forms with IRS and checking their rating with the Better Business Bureau or Charitynavigator.org is in order. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel McBride" To: "Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:27 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage for the Blind > Today I heard a radio commercial about donating your car, boat or > motorcycle to Heritage for the Blind, a foundation helping the blind > and visually impaired. I had never heard of said foundation before > today. > > > > I have located their website and shall be reviewing same. Are any of > you familiar with Heritage for the blind? If so, I would appreciate > any thoughts regarding same. > > > > Dan McBride, Attorney > > Fort Worth, Texas > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcgl > obal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/souljourner%40sbcgloba l.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 31 05:34:07 2012 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 21:34:07 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Heritage Foundation for the Blind Message-ID: <1B7D6B261FF94676A2A358811A4A7E8C@Spike> Here is the press release from the New York Attorney General regarding the investigation pertaining to Heritage for the Blind. It doesn't say much about specifics and is not real current. Chuck Attorney General Cuomo Announces Industry-wide Investigation Into Car Donation Charities NEW YORK, NY (June 15, 2010) - Attorney General Andrew Cuomo today announced an industry-wide investigation into car donation charities after a review found fraudulent practices that deceived donors and diverted funds from those in need. As a result of the investigation, the Attorney General's office filed a lawsuit seeking to shut down one charity for misusing money meant for the homeless, and subpoenaed 16 charities, fundraisers, and individuals. The lawsuit charges that Nicholas Cascone, Jr., the director of "Feed the Hungry, Inc." ("FTH"), solicited vehicle donations that were supposed to fund humanitarian causes and then kept the proceeds to enrich himself. Of the more than $430,000 that FTH received in donations between 2002 and 2009, the investigation found that less than $7,900 - 1.8% - was used for charitable purposes. "Nicholas Cascone and his Feed the Hungry organization promised to use donated vehicles to help the homeless but only ended up taking generous New Yorkers for a ride," said Attorney General Cuomo. "We remain concerned that similar practices may prevail in other organizations and will diligently work to root out any other sham charities. As we continue working to clean up this industry, we encourage generous New Yorkers to stay informed and to keep donating to worthy charities." Charities involved in the car donation industry solicit contributions in the form of used vehicles, which they then sell to raise funds for humanitarian causes. The Attorney General's review has shown that some charities mislead donors about how much money is used for charitable purposes as well as where the money goes. In some cases, the car donation charity is a complete sham, with little or no money going to the causes the charity purports to support. The Attorney General's lawsuit charges that Cascone and FTH intentionally made false representations about FTH in order to trick people into donating their vehicles. For example, the charity's own website included false claims about the number of meals for the hungry that FTH had funded. The website, www.feedthehungryinc.org, was taken down when FTH learned of the Attorney General's investigation. The lawsuit also charges Cascone with failing to provide even the most basic corporate and financial oversight of charitable assets. Further, during the Attorney General's investigation, Cascone invoked the Fifth Amendment more than 150 times and refused to answer simple questions about whether FTH took any steps to prevent charitable funds from being spent on personal items. The Attorney General's lawsuit seeks to: Freeze FTH's assets and permanently bar any further charitable solicitations by FTH; Obtain a full accounting of FTH's and Cascone's current and former assets and hold Cascone liable for restitution and damages; Prevent Cascone from serving as an officer or director of any not-for-profit in the future; Permanently dissolve FTH and dedicate any remaining assets to charitable uses that are actually consistent with the stated mission of FTH. The lawsuit against FTH and Cascone can be found at www.ag.ny.gov. SUBPOENAS TO CHARITIES, FUNDRAISERS, AND INDIVIDUALS As part of his wide-ranging investigation, the Attorney General has sent subpoenas to sixteen charities, fundraisers, and individuals involved in the charitable car donation industry. The subpoenas seek materials relating to the revenues that charities and for-profit fundraisers have collected through car donation programs, and how those revenues were used by the charities. The subpoenas also seek evidence to support the representations made in solicitations to potential vehicle donors. The charities, fundraisers, and individuals that have received subpoenas are: Bless the Kids, Inc.; Breast Cancer Society; Cars that Help, Inc.; Louis Cardillo; Children in Crises; Children's Cancer Fund of America; Children's Literacy Fund; Feed the Hungry, Inc.; Arthur Glass; Heritage for the Blind; Hope for the Disabled Kids, Inc.; J.O.Y. for our Youth, Inc. d/b/a Kars 4 Kids; Lechaim for Life; Neo Presearch Energy Foundation, Inc.; Tree of Life; and We Buy Cars, Inc. This matter is being handled by Assistant Attorney General Nathan Reilly, with the assistance of Analyst Kayla Arslanian, under the supervision of Special Deputy Chief of Staff Mitra Hormozi, and Chief of the Charities Bureau Jason Lilien. BACKGROUND INFORMATION Today's actions are part of Attorney General Cuomo's ongoing initiative to fight charitable fundraising scams and to safeguard donors. Recently, Cuomo sued to shut down a sham charity operation that claimed to raise money for breast cancer, as well as four professional fundraising companies that used fraudulent and deceptive practices. Last December, the Attorney General secured an injunction against the United Homeless Organization for deceiving donors. Last November, the Attorney General released his annual "Pennies for Charity" report, which shows the percentage of donations collected by charities that go to professional fundraisers as opposed to charitable purposes. Donors who suspect they have been a victim of charitable solicitation fraud should contact the Attorney General's office at www.ag.ny.gov or www.charitiesnys.com or by calling (212) 416-8402 . Before making vehicle donations, New Yorkers are encouraged to visit www.ag.ny.gov and www.charitiesnys.com for tips on giving. Attachment: FTH Complaint For Adobe PDF files you can download Adobe Reader from Adobe Systems. . New York City Press Office: (212) 416-8060 Albany Press Office: (518) 473-5525 nyag.pressoffice at ag.ny.gov Twitter: http://www.ag.ny.gov/press-release/attorney-general-cuomo-announces-industry-wide-investigation-car-donation-charities