From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 1 19:26:47 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 19:26:47 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: DOJ Jobs In-Reply-To: References: <87EAD4112E1ABA49BCA9055BEA384CBF3A7D2C5C@DPRC-EXCH-P05.JCONMAIL.doj.gov> Message-ID: From: Jobs [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia via Jobs Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 6:57 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Cc: Maurer, Patricia Subject: [Jobs] FW: DOJ Jobs From: Jobs, CRT (CRT) [mailto:CRT.Jobs at usdoj.gov] Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 9:08 AM Subject: DOJ Jobs The Civil Rights Division (Division) would like to thank each of you for participating in our efforts to increase outreach to individuals interested in working for the Division. The Division hopes to attract a broad and diverse pool of qualified applicants, and, to that end, encourages you to forward this information to any qualified applicants, including qualified applicants with disabilities, who may be interested in working for the Division. For your convenience, all current Division job announcements that are open to the public are listed below. Please also remind members of your organization that all job announcements can always be found on the Division's homepage, http://www.justice.gov/crt/employment. In addition, if you know of other organizations that might want to receive our job announcements, please let them know the process is very simple. They just need to send an email to CRT.Jobs at usdoj.gov. There are no elaborate forms to fill out - just an email indicating that the organization wishes to receive future job listings and the e-mail address for us to contact them. Please do not hesitate to let us know if you have suggestions on how we can improve our outreach efforts. The chart below includes the Civil Rights Division job opportunities currently available to the public. Remarks Position Salary Closing Date NEW Supervisory Attorney Adviser (Deputy Chief) Disability Rights Section GS-905-15 ($126,245 to $158,700) 12/14/15 Paralegal Specialist Recent Graduates Program Disability Rights Section GS-950-9 ($52,668 to $68,465 per year) 12/03/15 Paralegal Specialist Disability Rights Section GS-950-9/11 ($52,668 to $82,840 per year) 12/03/15 NEW Servicemembers and Veterans Initiative Student Volunteer (Summer) N/A (Volunteer) 12/18/15 Student Volunteers (Division-wide) N/A (Volunteer) See Description Individuals interested in applying for these positions should comply with the application procedures and closing dates in the vacancy announcement. The Division does not accept unsolicited resumes or applications (i.e., those not submitted in response to a particular vacancy announcement). If you need more information about a specific Civil Rights Division vacancy, please call the Human Resources Office, Team 1 on (202) 514-3934. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 1 21:02:36 2015 From: mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com (Marcos Rodrigues) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 16:02:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents Message-ID: Hi friends: Have someone used the platform/program mentioned on the subject? If so, is it accessible with any screen reader? Regards. Marcos Rodrigues mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Tue Dec 1 21:12:04 2015 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 16:12:04 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've used relativity and while I was not using a screen reader at the time, my hunch is that it might not be accessible. If someone doesn't let you know soon with more direct knowledge, I can also access it and attempt to use jaws with it and let you know the results. Best regards Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 1, 2015, at 4:02 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi friends: > > Have someone used the platform/program mentioned on the subject? > > If so, is it accessible with any screen reader? > > Regards. > Marcos Rodrigues > mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From taiablas at gmail.com Tue Dec 1 21:18:58 2015 From: taiablas at gmail.com (Tai Blas) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 15:18:58 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <663D19C1-8824-4456-8EDD-821D49C020C9@gmail.com> I'm very interested in the answer to this question. I have not had experience with it, but it is mentioned as a skill one should know for many government jobs. Please let me know what you find out. Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A Email: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors. > On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:02 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi friends: > > Have someone used the platform/program mentioned on the subject? > > If so, is it accessible with any screen reader? > > Regards. > Marcos Rodrigues > mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com From taiablas at gmail.com Tue Dec 1 21:20:28 2015 From: taiablas at gmail.com (Tai Blas) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 15:20:28 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <271C4584-1311-41DC-991B-67CF966B4FA6@gmail.com> Derek, I would appreciate it if you would give it a whirl with JAWS and let us know. Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A Email: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors. > On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:12 PM, Derek Manners via blindlaw wrote: > > I've used relativity and while I was not using a screen reader at the time, my hunch is that it might not be accessible. If someone doesn't let you know soon with more direct knowledge, I can also access it and attempt to use jaws with it and let you know the results. > > Best regards > Derek Manners > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 1, 2015, at 4:02 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via blindlaw wrote: >> >> Hi friends: >> >> Have someone used the platform/program mentioned on the subject? >> >> If so, is it accessible with any screen reader? >> >> Regards. >> Marcos Rodrigues >> mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com From NMPBRAT at aol.com Wed Dec 2 02:09:22 2015 From: NMPBRAT at aol.com (NMPBRAT at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 21:09:22 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Looking for insight Message-ID: <1f8f37.6124648d.438facd2@aol.com> Hi, I am hoping that this list can provide me some insight into a situation that I am currently in. If this post is not appropriate for this list, my apologies. If you have another suggestion as to where I can post, please feel free to suggest other ideas. Here's my situation. I currently have a disability discrimination charge with EEOC. It took me one and half years to get an enforcement investigator assigned to my case. In those one and a half years, the initial investigator went off the grid for six months and it took me going all the way to the director of the field office and back down through the investigator's supervisor in order to get a response. About 3 months ago, I contacted one of my state senators offices in an attempt to get things moving. They have been somewhat helpful and I believe it is part of the reason I even was just now assigned an enforcement investigator. When they got involved, the response they received from the EEOC office regarding my case caught their attention and they were somewhat concerned. The case worker that I was working with in their office stated that she took it to her supervisor, who then actually had her take it directly to the senator himself. Anyway, I just spoke to the investigator for the first time yesterday, as I had reached out to her. I had a question regarding filing a second charge. in the conversation, she stated that she wasn't sure when she might even be able to begin investigating my case and stated she had cases that she was still working on from back in 2010. Now, I know government moves at a snails pace....I fully expected that. However, my experiences with this office have been less than ideal and even the representative from this senator's office agreed and was concerned about what might be going on. So my question is..... Is this normal? Is this typical behavior and case management in any EEOC office wherever you are? Or is this more isolated to this particular office? I'm just trying to gain a broader perspective. Again, I'm not expecting a quick turnaround. If this is typical, then I just will have to live with it. However, if this is not, I may be a little more proactive and advocate a little harder to keep things moving, even if that means involving the senator's office again. I don't expect miracles but also want the wheels of justice to keep moving, so to speak. Otherwise, I might be 80 and in a retirement home by the time it gets investigated and settled (haha)! As I stated, any insight is appreciated. If you prefer to contact me off list, my email is _nmpbrat at aol.com_ (mailto:nmpbrat at aol.com) . Thank you, Nicole From tim at timeldermusic.com Wed Dec 2 14:23:01 2015 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 06:23:01 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00a001d12d0c$f3215340$d963f9c0$@timeldermusic.com> FWIW, even if the software is natively inaccessible, the possibility of writing custom JAWS scripts to make it accessible exists. -----Original Message----- From: Derek Manners [mailto:dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu] Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 1:12 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents I've used relativity and while I was not using a screen reader at the time, my hunch is that it might not be accessible. If someone doesn't let you know soon with more direct knowledge, I can also access it and attempt to use jaws with it and let you know the results. Best regards Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 1, 2015, at 4:02 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi friends: > > Have someone used the platform/program mentioned on the subject? > > If so, is it accessible with any screen reader? > > Regards. > Marcos Rodrigues > mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.ha rvard.edu From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Wed Dec 2 14:38:37 2015 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 09:38:37 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents In-Reply-To: <00a001d12d0c$f3215340$d963f9c0$@timeldermusic.com> References: <00a001d12d0c$f3215340$d963f9c0$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: <12657370-1A74-4685-920C-9E820A7E9774@jd16.law.harvard.edu> Hey Tim, can you say more about this or provide a link? This would be very helpful for me (and others) I'd imagine). Best regards Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 2, 2015, at 9:23 AM, Tim Elder wrote: > > FWIW, even if the software is natively inaccessible, the possibility of > writing custom JAWS scripts to make it accessible exists. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Derek Manners [mailto:dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 1:12 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review > documents > > I've used relativity and while I was not using a screen reader at the time, > my hunch is that it might not be accessible. If someone doesn't let you know > soon with more direct knowledge, I can also access it and attempt to use > jaws with it and let you know the results. > > Best regards > Derek Manners > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Dec 1, 2015, at 4:02 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via blindlaw >> wrote: >> >> Hi friends: >> >> Have someone used the platform/program mentioned on the subject? >> >> If so, is it accessible with any screen reader? >> >> Regards. >> Marcos Rodrigues >> mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.ha > rvard.edu > > > From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Dec 2 15:22:00 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 15:22:00 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents In-Reply-To: <00a001d12d0c$f3215340$d963f9c0$@timeldermusic.com> References: <00a001d12d0c$f3215340$d963f9c0$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: Out of curiosity, who would write these scripts? When our agency (county public defender) insisted on buying an inaccessible file management program, my supervisor and I were assured that the company would work with us post-rollout to make it accessible. We never heard another word from them on that, nor has the upper management of our office made a move to make the program accessible, likely because of the expense in both money and time that we simply do not have. I personally have neither the time to do it myself nor the money to pay someone else to do it, so the work-around has been to require my assistant to load anything that I might need from this program (which serves as the official file for a case) into a Word or OCR-d PDF document. As a further matter, she must do all of the date entry in the program notes section. Needless to say, it is a frustrating and inefficient way to work. All things considered, if a program is not inherently accessible, shouldn't we as a group pressure / persuade a change at the creation level? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tim Elder via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:23 AM To: 'Derek Manners' ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Tim Elder Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents FWIW, even if the software is natively inaccessible, the possibility of writing custom JAWS scripts to make it accessible exists. -----Original Message----- From: Derek Manners [mailto:dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu] Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 1:12 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents I've used relativity and while I was not using a screen reader at the time, my hunch is that it might not be accessible. If someone doesn't let you know soon with more direct knowledge, I can also access it and attempt to use jaws with it and let you know the results. Best regards Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 1, 2015, at 4:02 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi friends: > > Have someone used the platform/program mentioned on the subject? > > If so, is it accessible with any screen reader? > > Regards. > Marcos Rodrigues > mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.ha rvard.edu _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From tim at timeldermusic.com Wed Dec 2 17:48:00 2015 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 09:48:00 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents In-Reply-To: References: <00a001d12d0c$f3215340$d963f9c0$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: <00b101d12d29$96664990$c332dcb0$@timeldermusic.com> Native accessibility should always be priority. However, sometimes it is not enough and r/a are required in the interim, including scripts. I'd be surprised if you your agency couldn't afford it if you consider the larger pool of resources available in the county budget. Often counties set aside a small ADA fund and refuse to go outside that fund to pay for r/a. That is not a correct application of the law. Virtual Vision Technologies is a JAWS scripts vendor. Further, your state rehab agency ought to pay for the scripting if the employer truly cannot. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly [mailto:Susan.Kelly at pima.gov] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:22 AM To: tim at timeldermusic.com; Blind Law Mailing List; 'Derek Manners' Subject: RE: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents Out of curiosity, who would write these scripts? When our agency (county public defender) insisted on buying an inaccessible file management program, my supervisor and I were assured that the company would work with us post-rollout to make it accessible. We never heard another word from them on that, nor has the upper management of our office made a move to make the program accessible, likely because of the expense in both money and time that we simply do not have. I personally have neither the time to do it myself nor the money to pay someone else to do it, so the work-around has been to require my assistant to load anything that I might need from this program (which serves as the official file for a case) into a Word or OCR-d PDF document. As a further matter, she must do all of the date entry in the program notes section. Needless to say, it is a frustrating and inefficient way to work. All things considered, if a program is not inherently accessible, shouldn't we as a group pressure / persuade a change at the creation level? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tim Elder via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:23 AM To: 'Derek Manners' ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Tim Elder Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents FWIW, even if the software is natively inaccessible, the possibility of writing custom JAWS scripts to make it accessible exists. -----Original Message----- From: Derek Manners [mailto:dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu] Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 1:12 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents I've used relativity and while I was not using a screen reader at the time, my hunch is that it might not be accessible. If someone doesn't let you know soon with more direct knowledge, I can also access it and attempt to use jaws with it and let you know the results. Best regards Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 1, 2015, at 4:02 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi friends: > > Have someone used the platform/program mentioned on the subject? > > If so, is it accessible with any screen reader? > > Regards. > Marcos Rodrigues > mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.ha rvard.edu _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Dec 2 18:28:47 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 18:28:47 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents In-Reply-To: <00b101d12d29$96664990$c332dcb0$@timeldermusic.com> References: <00a001d12d0c$f3215340$d963f9c0$@timeldermusic.com> <00b101d12d29$96664990$c332dcb0$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: We have tried, without success. Arizona is particularly crunched, and has reduced funds available to the counties, who in turn have made public defense a very low priority. Additionally, my voc rehab case is closed, and because I am not in a priority group (which is to day, I am employed and not near retirement), the best I can hope for is a lengthy time on a waiting list. Trust me, we have tried. -----Original Message----- From: Tim Elder [mailto:tim at timeldermusic.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 10:48 AM To: Susan Kelly ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' ; 'Derek Manners' Subject: RE: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents Native accessibility should always be priority. However, sometimes it is not enough and r/a are required in the interim, including scripts. I'd be surprised if you your agency couldn't afford it if you consider the larger pool of resources available in the county budget. Often counties set aside a small ADA fund and refuse to go outside that fund to pay for r/a. That is not a correct application of the law. Virtual Vision Technologies is a JAWS scripts vendor. Further, your state rehab agency ought to pay for the scripting if the employer truly cannot. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly [mailto:Susan.Kelly at pima.gov] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:22 AM To: tim at timeldermusic.com; Blind Law Mailing List; 'Derek Manners' Subject: RE: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents Out of curiosity, who would write these scripts? When our agency (county public defender) insisted on buying an inaccessible file management program, my supervisor and I were assured that the company would work with us post-rollout to make it accessible. We never heard another word from them on that, nor has the upper management of our office made a move to make the program accessible, likely because of the expense in both money and time that we simply do not have. I personally have neither the time to do it myself nor the money to pay someone else to do it, so the work-around has been to require my assistant to load anything that I might need from this program (which serves as the official file for a case) into a Word or OCR-d PDF document. As a further matter, she must do all of the date entry in the program notes section. Needless to say, it is a frustrating and inefficient way to work. All things considered, if a program is not inherently accessible, shouldn't we as a group pressure / persuade a change at the creation level? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tim Elder via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:23 AM To: 'Derek Manners' ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Tim Elder Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents FWIW, even if the software is natively inaccessible, the possibility of writing custom JAWS scripts to make it accessible exists. -----Original Message----- From: Derek Manners [mailto:dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu] Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 1:12 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents I've used relativity and while I was not using a screen reader at the time, my hunch is that it might not be accessible. If someone doesn't let you know soon with more direct knowledge, I can also access it and attempt to use jaws with it and let you know the results. Best regards Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 1, 2015, at 4:02 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi friends: > > Have someone used the platform/program mentioned on the subject? > > If so, is it accessible with any screen reader? > > Regards. > Marcos Rodrigues > mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.ha rvard.edu _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From taiablas at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 18:50:10 2015 From: taiablas at gmail.com (Tai Tomasi) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 12:50:10 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents In-Reply-To: References: <00a001d12d0c$f3215340$d963f9c0$@timeldermusic.com> <00b101d12d29$96664990$c332dcb0$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: <068501d12d32$45764a90$d062dfb0$@gmail.com> Can't you open a VR case based on the need for retention services? I am no VR expert, but this should put you in a higher priority group. Tai -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 12:29 PM To: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List'; 'Derek Manners' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents We have tried, without success. Arizona is particularly crunched, and has reduced funds available to the counties, who in turn have made public defense a very low priority. Additionally, my voc rehab case is closed, and because I am not in a priority group (which is to day, I am employed and not near retirement), the best I can hope for is a lengthy time on a waiting list. Trust me, we have tried. -----Original Message----- From: Tim Elder [mailto:tim at timeldermusic.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 10:48 AM To: Susan Kelly ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' ; 'Derek Manners' Subject: RE: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents Native accessibility should always be priority. However, sometimes it is not enough and r/a are required in the interim, including scripts. I'd be surprised if you your agency couldn't afford it if you consider the larger pool of resources available in the county budget. Often counties set aside a small ADA fund and refuse to go outside that fund to pay for r/a. That is not a correct application of the law. Virtual Vision Technologies is a JAWS scripts vendor. Further, your state rehab agency ought to pay for the scripting if the employer truly cannot. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly [mailto:Susan.Kelly at pima.gov] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:22 AM To: tim at timeldermusic.com; Blind Law Mailing List; 'Derek Manners' Subject: RE: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents Out of curiosity, who would write these scripts? When our agency (county public defender) insisted on buying an inaccessible file management program, my supervisor and I were assured that the company would work with us post-rollout to make it accessible. We never heard another word from them on that, nor has the upper management of our office made a move to make the program accessible, likely because of the expense in both money and time that we simply do not have. I personally have neither the time to do it myself nor the money to pay someone else to do it, so the work-around has been to require my assistant to load anything that I might need from this program (which serves as the official file for a case) into a Word or OCR-d PDF document. As a further matter, she must do all of the date entry in the program notes section. Needless to say, it is a frustrating and inefficient way to work. All things considered, if a program is not inherently accessible, shouldn't we as a group pressure / persuade a change at the creation level? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tim Elder via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:23 AM To: 'Derek Manners' ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Tim Elder Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents FWIW, even if the software is natively inaccessible, the possibility of writing custom JAWS scripts to make it accessible exists. -----Original Message----- From: Derek Manners [mailto:dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu] Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 1:12 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents I've used relativity and while I was not using a screen reader at the time, my hunch is that it might not be accessible. If someone doesn't let you know soon with more direct knowledge, I can also access it and attempt to use jaws with it and let you know the results. Best regards Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 1, 2015, at 4:02 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi friends: > > Have someone used the platform/program mentioned on the subject? > > If so, is it accessible with any screen reader? > > Regards. > Marcos Rodrigues > mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.ha rvard.edu _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7227 / Virus Database: 4477/11093 - Release Date: 11/30/15 From jmccarthy at mdtap.org Wed Dec 2 18:56:48 2015 From: jmccarthy at mdtap.org (Jim McCarthy) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 13:56:48 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents In-Reply-To: <068501d12d32$45764a90$d062dfb0$@gmail.com> References: <00a001d12d0c$f3215340$d963f9c0$@timeldermusic.com> <00b101d12d29$96664990$c332dcb0$@timeldermusic.com> <068501d12d32$45764a90$d062dfb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <01f201d12d33$32e02f30$98a08d90$@mdtap.org> It seems to me that one possible challenge in that is that retention does not sound like an issue. It appears that the employer is providing an accommodation so VR may have an argument that there is no threat of job loss without reopening the case to purchase scripting. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 1:50 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Tai Tomasi Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents Can't you open a VR case based on the need for retention services? I am no VR expert, but this should put you in a higher priority group. Tai -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 12:29 PM To: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List'; 'Derek Manners' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents We have tried, without success. Arizona is particularly crunched, and has reduced funds available to the counties, who in turn have made public defense a very low priority. Additionally, my voc rehab case is closed, and because I am not in a priority group (which is to day, I am employed and not near retirement), the best I can hope for is a lengthy time on a waiting list. Trust me, we have tried. -----Original Message----- From: Tim Elder [mailto:tim at timeldermusic.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 10:48 AM To: Susan Kelly ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' ; 'Derek Manners' Subject: RE: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents Native accessibility should always be priority. However, sometimes it is not enough and r/a are required in the interim, including scripts. I'd be surprised if you your agency couldn't afford it if you consider the larger pool of resources available in the county budget. Often counties set aside a small ADA fund and refuse to go outside that fund to pay for r/a. That is not a correct application of the law. Virtual Vision Technologies is a JAWS scripts vendor. Further, your state rehab agency ought to pay for the scripting if the employer truly cannot. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly [mailto:Susan.Kelly at pima.gov] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:22 AM To: tim at timeldermusic.com; Blind Law Mailing List; 'Derek Manners' Subject: RE: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents Out of curiosity, who would write these scripts? When our agency (county public defender) insisted on buying an inaccessible file management program, my supervisor and I were assured that the company would work with us post-rollout to make it accessible. We never heard another word from them on that, nor has the upper management of our office made a move to make the program accessible, likely because of the expense in both money and time that we simply do not have. I personally have neither the time to do it myself nor the money to pay someone else to do it, so the work-around has been to require my assistant to load anything that I might need from this program (which serves as the official file for a case) into a Word or OCR-d PDF document. As a further matter, she must do all of the date entry in the program notes section. Needless to say, it is a frustrating and inefficient way to work. All things considered, if a program is not inherently accessible, shouldn't we as a group pressure / persuade a change at the creation level? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tim Elder via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:23 AM To: 'Derek Manners' ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Tim Elder Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents FWIW, even if the software is natively inaccessible, the possibility of writing custom JAWS scripts to make it accessible exists. -----Original Message----- From: Derek Manners [mailto:dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu] Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 1:12 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents I've used relativity and while I was not using a screen reader at the time, my hunch is that it might not be accessible. If someone doesn't let you know soon with more direct knowledge, I can also access it and attempt to use jaws with it and let you know the results. Best regards Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 1, 2015, at 4:02 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi friends: > > Have someone used the platform/program mentioned on the subject? > > If so, is it accessible with any screen reader? > > Regards. > Marcos Rodrigues > mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.ha rvard.edu _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7227 / Virus Database: 4477/11093 - Release Date: 11/30/15 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Dec 2 19:02:45 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 19:02:45 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents In-Reply-To: <068501d12d32$45764a90$d062dfb0$@gmail.com> References: <00a001d12d0c$f3215340$d963f9c0$@timeldermusic.com> <00b101d12d29$96664990$c332dcb0$@timeldermusic.com> <068501d12d32$45764a90$d062dfb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I will be wait-listed indefinitely. I only got services the first time due to an unexpected federal grant; at the time, I was on an indefinite waiting list to learn and procure JAWS, as the "lite" version of assistive technology that my family had purchased for me to use (WinZoom, similar to ZoomText) was no longer sufficient. A co-worker who is paralyzed and dependent on Dragon for her computer access has had similar roadblocks. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tai Tomasi via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 11:50 AM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Tai Tomasi Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents Can't you open a VR case based on the need for retention services? I am no VR expert, but this should put you in a higher priority group. Tai -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 12:29 PM To: tim at timeldermusic.com; 'Blind Law Mailing List'; 'Derek Manners' Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents We have tried, without success. Arizona is particularly crunched, and has reduced funds available to the counties, who in turn have made public defense a very low priority. Additionally, my voc rehab case is closed, and because I am not in a priority group (which is to day, I am employed and not near retirement), the best I can hope for is a lengthy time on a waiting list. Trust me, we have tried. -----Original Message----- From: Tim Elder [mailto:tim at timeldermusic.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 10:48 AM To: Susan Kelly ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' ; 'Derek Manners' Subject: RE: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents Native accessibility should always be priority. However, sometimes it is not enough and r/a are required in the interim, including scripts. I'd be surprised if you your agency couldn't afford it if you consider the larger pool of resources available in the county budget. Often counties set aside a small ADA fund and refuse to go outside that fund to pay for r/a. That is not a correct application of the law. Virtual Vision Technologies is a JAWS scripts vendor. Further, your state rehab agency ought to pay for the scripting if the employer truly cannot. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Kelly [mailto:Susan.Kelly at pima.gov] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:22 AM To: tim at timeldermusic.com; Blind Law Mailing List; 'Derek Manners' Subject: RE: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents Out of curiosity, who would write these scripts? When our agency (county public defender) insisted on buying an inaccessible file management program, my supervisor and I were assured that the company would work with us post-rollout to make it accessible. We never heard another word from them on that, nor has the upper management of our office made a move to make the program accessible, likely because of the expense in both money and time that we simply do not have. I personally have neither the time to do it myself nor the money to pay someone else to do it, so the work-around has been to require my assistant to load anything that I might need from this program (which serves as the official file for a case) into a Word or OCR-d PDF document. As a further matter, she must do all of the date entry in the program notes section. Needless to say, it is a frustrating and inefficient way to work. All things considered, if a program is not inherently accessible, shouldn't we as a group pressure / persuade a change at the creation level? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tim Elder via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 7:23 AM To: 'Derek Manners' ; 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Tim Elder Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents FWIW, even if the software is natively inaccessible, the possibility of writing custom JAWS scripts to make it accessible exists. -----Original Message----- From: Derek Manners [mailto:dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu] Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 1:12 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software used to review documents I've used relativity and while I was not using a screen reader at the time, my hunch is that it might not be accessible. If someone doesn't let you know soon with more direct knowledge, I can also access it and attempt to use jaws with it and let you know the results. Best regards Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 1, 2015, at 4:02 PM, Marcos Rodrigues via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi friends: > > Have someone used the platform/program mentioned on the subject? > > If so, is it accessible with any screen reader? > > Regards. > Marcos Rodrigues > mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.ha rvard.edu _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7227 / Virus Database: 4477/11093 - Release Date: 11/30/15 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Dec 2 20:08:04 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 20:08:04 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Fall 2015 Update: More Delay for DOJ Web Regulations, Law Office of Larry Feingold, November 22 2015 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Link: http://lflegal.com/2015/11/doj-fall-2015/ Text: Fall 2015 Update: More Delay for DOJ Web Regulations [expect delays roadsign]Every six months, agencies in the United States federal government must notify the public about the status of pending regulations. On November 19, 2015, The U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) gave an update about pending regulations regarding the accessibility of websites. As the agency has done many times before, the update boils down to a five letter word: Delay. Probably until 2018 for private sector websites. [Note: this post has been updated to include information about the delay for another set of regulations - those updating Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. share on twitter The status of the regulations is buried in a Department of Justice filing with the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs (OIRA) which is part of the Office of Management and Budget (OMB). The filing is called the semi-annual regulatory agenda. In the Fall, 2015 filing, the Department of Justice reported on the status of regulations for state and local governments (entities covered by Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act) and for public accommodations (private entities serving the public covered by Title III of the ADA). The agency's update is below. As you read, remember that even without regulations, the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) already requires websites and mobile applications to be available to everyone. The DOJ is delaying regulations. Site and app owners should not delay in making their digital properties accessible. * Jump to a Simplified Summary of this Document, a feature of LFLegal.com designed to meet WCAG Success Criteria 3.1.5 (a WCAG 2.0 AAA Reading Level requirement). Section 508 Regulations Delayed Until Fall, 2016 The United States Access Board is responsible for regulations under Section 508 governing federal procurement of accessible technology. Back in July 2006 the United States Access Board started "refreshing" those regulations by establishing the Telecommunications and Electronic and Information Technology Advisory Committee (TEITAC) to review the regulations. The committee issued its report in 2008, the most recent Notice of Proposed Rule Making was issued on February 27, 2015, and the public comment period closed this past May. Last week the agency announced that the final rule would not be coming out until October 2016. Read the Access Board's Fall 2015 Regulatory Agenda that includes the 2016 date. If you want to learn more about Section 508 and the effort to make the regulations current, visit the Access Board's Section 508 Refresh Portal. You will find the full history with links to documents. You can also read the Access Board Statement of Regulatory Priorities, Fall 2015 that the agency filed with its update about Section 508. State and Local Government Websites (ADA Title II) While the Access Board is responsible for Section 508 regulations, the United States Department of Justice is responsible for regulations under the ADA. For state and local governments, the Department of Justice's Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) about web accessibility is now scheduled for January, 2016. (In 2010 the agency issued an Advanced Notice of Proposed Rule Making. The NPRM is the next step.) If that happens, the comment period will close in April 2016. Visit the DOJ information for Title II websites. The dates are in a small table toward the bottom of the page. The regulations are a small part of what the Department of Justice does. In the agency's enforcement activities, it is requiring state and local governments to make websites and mobile applications accessible. Through its Project Civic Action the DOJ has announced many settlements with state and local governments requiring digital accessibility. The most recent is a settlement with Mclennan County, Texas announced in November, 2015. Obligations to make web-based services and programs accessible begin in Section 41 of the agreement. You can read more about DOJ web access enforcement activities over the past few years in the Legal Updates posted on this website. Many schools, colleges and universities are covered by Title II of the ADA. The DOJ, the Department of Education, and private lawsuit settlements leave no doubt: even without regulations web and mobile content, features and functions must be accessible to people with disabilities. A review of enforcement activity by both government agencies and private parties teaches that compliance with the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 2.0 Level AA, combined with a robust program of usability testing, is the way to ensure that Title II websites and mobile applications meet ADA non-discrimination requirements. Public Accommodations (ADA Title III) For public accommodations (private entities serving the public) the date for issuance of the NPRM has been changed to "to be determined." Visit the DOJ Information for Title III websites. This is a step backwards in rule making; this past Spring the regulatory agenda stated that the private sector web regulations would be out by April, 2016. Read the Spring 2015 regulatory agenda for private sector websites. Although the semi-annual agenda says "to be determined," in a related filing last week the agency says it does not expect to issue the Notice of Proposed Rule Making for private sector websites until fiscal year 2018. Here is a quote from the agency's November 2015 Statement of Regulatory Priorities The Department's 2010 ANPRM on web site accessibility, as previously pointed out, sought public comment regarding what standards, if any, it should adopt for web site accessibility, whether the Department should adopt coverage limitations for certain entities, including small businesses, and what resources and services are available to make existing web sites accessible to individuals with disabilities. The Department also solicited comments on the costs of making web sites accessible and on the existence of any other effective and reasonably feasible alternatives to making web sites accessible. The Department is reviewing the public comments received in response to the ANPRM and, as noted above, plans to publish the title II NPRM on web site accessibility early in fiscal year 2016. The Department believes that the title II web site accessibility rule will facilitate the creation of an important infrastructure for web accessibility that will be very important in the Department's preparation of the title III web site accessibility NPRM. Consequently, the Department has decided to extend the time period for development of the proposed title III web site accessibility rule and include it among its long-term rulemaking priorities. The Department expects to publish the title III web site accessibility NPRM during fiscal year 2018. DOJ's Fall 2015 Statement of Regulatory Priorities. Even though the web regulations are not expected any time soon, the Department of Justice has consistently and repeatedly stated that the Americans with Disabilities Act already requires websites to be accessible. When the DOJ delayed rule making in June 2014 I wrote a post detailing DOJ's commitment to web access as of Spring 2014. Since that time, DOJ's commitment to web and mobile accessibility has not wavered. Visit the Legal Update page to read recent DOJ digital accessibility activities. The Legal Updates linked above also detail how private parties are using the ADA to guarantee that disabled people have access to web and mobile content from private sector entities. Look for the next legal update before the end of the year. It will include the recently announced settlement between the National Federation of the Blind and Scribd - the Netflix of Books. Scribd - an online-only service - has agreed to make its digital offerings accessible. Read the Scribd/NFB press release. Please Contact the Law Office of Lainey Feingold if you would like to be added to the mailing list to receive notice of the next legal update. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5213 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Wed Dec 2 23:18:02 2015 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 16:18:02 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-software usedto review documents References: <00a001d12d0c$f3215340$d963f9c0$@timeldermusic.com> <00b101d12d29$96664990$c332dcb0$@timeldermusic.com> Message-ID: <5C00510318A6450D8F01B56BCA627D50@victory2> What if an employee is NOT a rehab client, will rehab still pay for writing scripts? Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Wed Dec 2 23:44:37 2015 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 16:44:37 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-softwareused to review documents References: <00a001d12d0c$f3215340$d963f9c0$@timeldermusic.com><00b101d12d29$96664990$c332dcb0$@timeldermusic.com><068501d12d32$45764a90$d062dfb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: In this day of low budget, who knows what rehab may have up its sleeves? Besides, the atrocious price charged by scripters will scare more birds into their cages. Example: A guy in Britain wanted to script a POINT OF SALE software for me at either $18,303 or $41,000 depending on how fast I wanted to have things done. Why so? Because I wanted full access to the source code! This for me was necessary to ensure continuity of code development. These prices equal the salary of someone; I don't even make close to either amount charged and I work for myself! The general argument has been that the number of clientele are too few. Phew! Not an argument I'd like to chew on! I'm of the opinion that the cost of screen readers ought to drop drastically; it should be possible for me to WALK INTO WALMART, MICROCENTER, BESTBUY and others and grab a copy of my trusted screen reader whatever name it may elect to call itself! Also, I think the time is ripe to invoke the antitrust act against screen reader developers for purposes of guarding against price gouching. They're beginning to create silly vertical markets and this is bad for business! I believe that screen reader developers can source sufficient capital for continued development from the stock market. Their stocks DO NOT have to be purchased by the blind only; other would-be investors will chip in and earn a return on investment, however small this might be. $125 or more per hour for scripting an app is ludicrous; in the end, one never GAINS COMPLETE ACCESS to the app anyway as the areas to be scripted will need to be clearly defined. Anyway, I've vented enough; noW IT'S time to creep back into my wind vent! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From mnowicki4 at icloud.com Thu Dec 3 00:07:08 2015 From: mnowicki4 at icloud.com (Michal Nowicki) Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2015 18:07:08 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-softwareused to review documents In-Reply-To: References: <00a001d12d0c$f3215340$d963f9c0$@timeldermusic.com> <00b101d12d29$96664990$c332dcb0$@timeldermusic.com> <068501d12d32$45764a90$d062dfb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001d12d5e$8dd2e740$a978b5c0$@icloud.com> Dear List, To make matters even worse, not all software can be made accessible through scripts even if money is not an issue. That is because some programs are so inaccessible that no matter how you manipulate your screen reader's script functionality, it won't work anyway. Best, Michal -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2015 5:45 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-softwareused to review documents In this day of low budget, who knows what rehab may have up its sleeves? Besides, the atrocious price charged by scripters will scare more birds into their cages. Example: A guy in Britain wanted to script a POINT OF SALE software for me at either $18,303 or $41,000 depending on how fast I wanted to have things done. Why so? Because I wanted full access to the source code! This for me was necessary to ensure continuity of code development. These prices equal the salary of someone; I don't even make close to either amount charged and I work for myself! The general argument has been that the number of clientele are too few. Phew! Not an argument I'd like to chew on! I'm of the opinion that the cost of screen readers ought to drop drastically; it should be possible for me to WALK INTO WALMART, MICROCENTER, BESTBUY and others and grab a copy of my trusted screen reader whatever name it may elect to call itself! Also, I think the time is ripe to invoke the antitrust act against screen reader developers for purposes of guarding against price gouching. They're beginning to create silly vertical markets and this is bad for business! I believe that screen reader developers can source sufficient capital for continued development from the stock market. Their stocks DO NOT have to be purchased by the blind only; other would-be investors will chip in and earn a return on investment, however small this might be. $125 or more per hour for scripting an app is ludicrous; in the end, one never GAINS COMPLETE ACCESS to the app anyway as the areas to be scripted will need to be clearly defined. Anyway, I've vented enough; noW IT'S time to creep back into my wind vent! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Thu Dec 3 01:42:20 2015 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (rjaquiss) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 17:42:20 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-softwareused to review documents In-Reply-To: <000001d12d5e$8dd2e740$a978b5c0$@icloud.com> References: <00a001d12d0c$f3215340$d963f9c0$@timeldermusic.com> <00b101d12d29$96664990$c332dcb0$@timeldermusic.com> <068501d12d32$45764a90$d062dfb0$@gmail.com> <000001d12d5e$8dd2e740$a978b5c0$@icloud.com> Message-ID: <001b01d12d6b$d9f99c60$8decd520$@earthlink.net> Hello: There is a software package called ALT from www.u-r-able.com. ALT can be used to create keyboard shortcuts for mouse moves. For example if it is necessary to use a mouse to open the file menu, ALT can be programmed to provide a keyboard shortcut to make the move. ALT can record sequences of mouse moves and keyboard commands. With these and more capabilities, ALT can make inaccessible software accessible. One exception is drawing software that requires the user to draw images with the mouse. For more information, please contact me as shown below. Regards, Robert Robert Jaquiss Tactile Graphics Solutions LLC. Phone: 541-248-3627 Email: rjaquiss at earthlink.net *** Specializing in computerized production of tactile graphics, ALT development, technology assessments, product evaluations and web site certification. *** -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michal Nowicki via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 4:07 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Michal Nowicki Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-softwareused to review documents Dear List, To make matters even worse, not all software can be made accessible through scripts even if money is not an issue. That is because some programs are so inaccessible that no matter how you manipulate your screen reader's script functionality, it won't work anyway. Best, Michal -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2015 5:45 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-softwareused to review documents In this day of low budget, who knows what rehab may have up its sleeves? Besides, the atrocious price charged by scripters will scare more birds into their cages. Example: A guy in Britain wanted to script a POINT OF SALE software for me at either $18,303 or $41,000 depending on how fast I wanted to have things done. Why so? Because I wanted full access to the source code! This for me was necessary to ensure continuity of code development. These prices equal the salary of someone; I don't even make close to either amount charged and I work for myself! The general argument has been that the number of clientele are too few. Phew! Not an argument I'd like to chew on! I'm of the opinion that the cost of screen readers ought to drop drastically; it should be possible for me to WALK INTO WALMART, MICROCENTER, BESTBUY and others and grab a copy of my trusted screen reader whatever name it may elect to call itself! Also, I think the time is ripe to invoke the antitrust act against screen reader developers for purposes of guarding against price gouching. They're beginning to create silly vertical markets and this is bad for business! I believe that screen reader developers can source sufficient capital for continued development from the stock market. Their stocks DO NOT have to be purchased by the blind only; other would-be investors will chip in and earn a return on investment, however small this might be. $125 or more per hour for scripting an app is ludicrous; in the end, one never GAINS COMPLETE ACCESS to the app anyway as the areas to be scripted will need to be clearly defined. Anyway, I've vented enough; noW IT'S time to creep back into my wind vent! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.n et From mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 3 03:27:10 2015 From: mrodrigues81 at hotmail.com (Marcos Rodrigues) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 22:27:10 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-softwareused to review documents In-Reply-To: <001b01d12d6b$d9f99c60$8decd520$@earthlink.net> References: <00a001d12d0c$f3215340$d963f9c0$@timeldermusic.com> <00b101d12d29$96664990$c332dcb0$@timeldermusic.com> <068501d12d32$45764a90$d062dfb0$@gmail.com> <000001d12d5e$8dd2e740$a978b5c0$@icloud.com> <001b01d12d6b$d9f99c60$8decd520$@earthlink.net> Message-ID: So do maybe we can make relativity accessible? Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 2, 2015, at 8:44 PM, rjaquiss via blindlaw wrote: > > Hello: > > There is a software package called ALT from www.u-r-able.com. ALT can > be used to create keyboard shortcuts for mouse moves. For example if it is > necessary to use a mouse to open the file menu, ALT can be programmed to > provide a keyboard shortcut to make the move. ALT can record sequences of > mouse moves and keyboard commands. With these and more capabilities, ALT can > make inaccessible software accessible. One exception is drawing software > that requires the user to draw images with the mouse. For more information, > please contact me as shown below. > > Regards, > > Robert > > Robert Jaquiss > Tactile Graphics Solutions LLC. > Phone: 541-248-3627 > Email: rjaquiss at earthlink.net > *** Specializing in computerized production of tactile graphics, ALT > development, technology assessments, product evaluations and web site > certification. *** > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michal > Nowicki via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 4:07 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Michal Nowicki > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-softwareused to review > documents > > Dear List, > > To make matters even worse, not all software can be made accessible through > scripts even if money is not an issue. That is because some programs are so > inaccessible that no matter how you manipulate your screen reader's script > functionality, it won't work anyway. > > Best, > > Michal > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Olusegun -- > Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2015 5:45 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-softwareused to review > documents > > In this day of low budget, who knows what rehab may have up its sleeves? > Besides, the atrocious price charged by scripters will scare more birds into > > their cages. Example: A guy in Britain wanted to script a POINT OF SALE > software for me at either $18,303 or $41,000 depending on how fast I wanted > to have things done. Why so? Because I wanted full access to the source > code! This for me was necessary to ensure continuity of code development. > > These prices equal the salary of someone; I don't even make close to either > amount charged and I work for myself! > > The general argument has been that the number of clientele are too few. > Phew! Not an argument I'd like to chew on! > > I'm of the opinion that the cost of screen readers ought to drop > drastically; it should be possible for me to WALK INTO WALMART, MICROCENTER, > > BESTBUY and others and grab a copy of my trusted screen reader whatever name > > it may elect to call itself! Also, I think the time is ripe to invoke the > antitrust act against screen reader developers for purposes of guarding > against price gouching. They're beginning to create silly vertical markets > and this is bad for business! I believe that screen reader developers can > source sufficient capital for continued development from the stock market. > Their stocks DO NOT have to be purchased by the blind only; other would-be > investors will chip in and earn a return on investment, however small this > might be. > > $125 or more per hour for scripting an app is ludicrous; in the end, one > never GAINS COMPLETE ACCESS to the app anyway as the areas to be scripted > will need to be clearly defined. Anyway, I've vented enough; noW IT'S time > to creep back into my wind vent! > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mrodrigues81%40hotmail.com From tim at timeldermusic.com Fri Dec 4 01:08:50 2015 From: tim at timeldermusic.com (Tim Elder) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 17:08:50 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-softwareused to review documents In-Reply-To: <001b01d12d6b$d9f99c60$8decd520$@earthlink.net> References: <00a001d12d0c$f3215340$d963f9c0$@timeldermusic.com> <00b101d12d29$96664990$c332dcb0$@timeldermusic.com> <068501d12d32$45764a90$d062dfb0$@gmail.com> <000001d12d5e$8dd2e740$a978b5c0$@icloud.com> <001b01d12d6b$d9f99c60$8decd520$@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <002e01d12e30$56438af0$02caa0d0$@timeldermusic.com> 1, I fully endorse ALT. It is a great power user tool. 2, I've seen JAWS scripts created by one vendor after a previous vendor suggested that the program could not be scripted. -----Original Message----- From: rjaquiss [mailto:rjaquiss at earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 5:42 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-softwareused to review documents Hello: There is a software package called ALT from www.u-r-able.com. ALT can be used to create keyboard shortcuts for mouse moves. For example if it is necessary to use a mouse to open the file menu, ALT can be programmed to provide a keyboard shortcut to make the move. ALT can record sequences of mouse moves and keyboard commands. With these and more capabilities, ALT can make inaccessible software accessible. One exception is drawing software that requires the user to draw images with the mouse. For more information, please contact me as shown below. Regards, Robert Robert Jaquiss Tactile Graphics Solutions LLC. Phone: 541-248-3627 Email: rjaquiss at earthlink.net *** Specializing in computerized production of tactile graphics, ALT development, technology assessments, product evaluations and web site certification. *** -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michal Nowicki via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 4:07 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Michal Nowicki Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-softwareused to review documents Dear List, To make matters even worse, not all software can be made accessible through scripts even if money is not an issue. That is because some programs are so inaccessible that no matter how you manipulate your screen reader's script functionality, it won't work anyway. Best, Michal -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2015 5:45 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question about relativity-softwareused to review documents In this day of low budget, who knows what rehab may have up its sleeves? Besides, the atrocious price charged by scripters will scare more birds into their cages. Example: A guy in Britain wanted to script a POINT OF SALE software for me at either $18,303 or $41,000 depending on how fast I wanted to have things done. Why so? Because I wanted full access to the source code! This for me was necessary to ensure continuity of code development. These prices equal the salary of someone; I don't even make close to either amount charged and I work for myself! The general argument has been that the number of clientele are too few. Phew! Not an argument I'd like to chew on! I'm of the opinion that the cost of screen readers ought to drop drastically; it should be possible for me to WALK INTO WALMART, MICROCENTER, BESTBUY and others and grab a copy of my trusted screen reader whatever name it may elect to call itself! Also, I think the time is ripe to invoke the antitrust act against screen reader developers for purposes of guarding against price gouching. They're beginning to create silly vertical markets and this is bad for business! I believe that screen reader developers can source sufficient capital for continued development from the stock market. Their stocks DO NOT have to be purchased by the blind only; other would-be investors will chip in and earn a return on investment, however small this might be. $125 or more per hour for scripting an app is ludicrous; in the end, one never GAINS COMPLETE ACCESS to the app anyway as the areas to be scripted will need to be clearly defined. Anyway, I've vented enough; noW IT'S time to creep back into my wind vent! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mnowicki4%40icloud.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.n et From gmanmesa at gmail.com Sun Dec 6 22:06:58 2015 From: gmanmesa at gmail.com (garret mooney) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 15:06:58 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT prep courses Message-ID: <00ca01d13072$6e564e90$4b02ebb0$@gmail.com> Hello, I will be taking the LSAT in the summer or in the fall. I was wondering if anybody recommends any prep courses that are compatible with jaws? --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Mon Dec 7 18:15:53 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 18:15:53 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] {Disarmed} FW: December FREE Legal Lunchbox recording: Creating Inclusive Workplaces for Attorneys With Disabilities In-Reply-To: <0.0.202.5C.1D13122598ADA48.0@drone125.ral.icpbounce.com> References: <0.0.202.5C.1D13122598ADA48.0@drone125.ral.icpbounce.com> Message-ID: Thought some of you might find this of interest. From: WSBA-CLE [mailto:cle at wsba.org] Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 10:11 AM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: December FREE Legal Lunchbox recording: Creating Inclusive Workplaces for Attorneys With Disabilities [December Legal Lunchbox] Free recorded CLE available throughout December: This month’s Legal Lunchbox Series CLE topic: Creating an Inclusive Workplace for Attorneys with Disabilities [Video or MP3 recording available Dec. 1 – 31, 2015] Video or MP3 recording available Dec. 1 – 31, 2015 [1.5 AV general CLE credits] Approved for 1.5 AV general CLE credits for Washington attorneys. (Half of the required 45 CLE credits each reporting period may be AV credits from recorded CLE seminars.) [FREE to all WSBA members] FREE to all WSBA members Available through Dec. 31, 2015 Don’t miss the opportunity to watch or listen at your convenience — any time through Dec. 31 — to a recorded seminar* that provides a practical approach to building an inclusive work environment for attorneys with disabilities that benefits both law offices and the practice of law. A panel that includes attorneys with disabilities and law firm managing attorneys discuss the following topics: * Disability in Washington and implicit biases (even with good intentions) * ADA and reasonable accommodations * Hiring and retaining attorneys with disabilities Click here to access the video or audio MP3 for free any time in December. *Important note: If you attended the live webcast of this program on June 17, 2015 and reported live CLE credits, you may not also report AV credits from listening to the recording. Accessing the December free Legal Lunchbox recording: This recording in either audio MP3 or video format will be available at no cost to WSBA members throughout the month of December. Starting Dec. 1, select the media type you prefer (audio MP3 or video), then click the "Add to Cart" button and proceed through the check-out process (this will require you to log in to your myWSBA account). At the conclusion of the check-out process, the price of the recording will show as zero and the recording will be available in your "My CLE" area (far right tab at the top of the online store homepage at www.wsbacle.org.) The video will be available to stream directly to your computer. The MP3 audio file will have been downloaded directly to your computer; from there, burn it to a disc or save it to a mobile device so you can listen from anywhere. Questions? Contact the WSBA Service Center toll-free at 1-800-945 WSBA. Get CLE credits anytime, anywhere, with WSBA recorded seminars. You'll find hundreds of selections on the CLE Store. [WSBA Recorded Seminars] This message was sent to noel.nightingale at ed.gov from: WSBA-CLE | cle at wsba.org | Washington State Bar Association | 1325 4th Ave., Suite 600 | Seattle, WA 98101 Email Marketing by [iContact - Try It Free!] Manage Your Subscription From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Dec 9 15:24:38 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 15:24:38 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? Message-ID: Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal question (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that many of us are governmental employees, or at least in larger groups, I am hoping there is an answer among us. Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple of years. Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or suggestions for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. Has anyone participated in a training that accounts for these differences? Does any such training even exist? From keribcu at gmail.com Wed Dec 9 15:58:09 2015 From: keribcu at gmail.com (Keri) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 10:58:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. At my university the campus police officer(who is a real policeman) offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I don't think there is official methods. My school is willing to teach for different situations however to students, staff, and faculty. On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal question (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that many of us are governmental employees, or at least in larger groups, I am hoping there is an answer among us. > > Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple of years. Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or suggestions for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. Has anyone participated in a training that accounts for these differences? Does any such training even exist? > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail.com -- Keri From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Wed Dec 9 18:06:14 2015 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 18:06:14 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in reading re: adaptations etc. suggested. Thanks Ger On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: > I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. > At my university the campus police officer(who is a real policeman) > offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I don't think there is > official methods. My school is willing to teach for different situations > however to students, staff, and faculty. > > > On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal question >> (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that many of us are >> governmental employees, or at least in larger groups, I am hoping there is >> an answer among us. >> >> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple of years. >> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or suggestions for >> those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. Has anyone participated in >> a training that accounts for these differences? Does any such training >> even exist? >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail.com > > -- > Keri > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com > From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Dec 9 18:46:49 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 18:46:49 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> Message-ID: So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker look out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Gerard Sadlier Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? Hi, This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in reading re: adaptations etc. suggested. Thanks Ger On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: > I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. > At my university the campus police officer(who is a real policeman) > offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I don't think there > is official methods. My school is willing to teach for different > situations however to students, staff, and faculty. > > > On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal question >> (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that many of us are >> governmental employees, or at least in larger groups, I am hoping >> there is an answer among us. >> >> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple of years. >> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or suggestions for >> those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. Has anyone >> participated in a training that accounts for these differences? Does >> any such training even exist? >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail >> .com > > -- > Keri > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%4 > 0gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From keribcu at gmail.com Wed Dec 9 20:37:42 2015 From: keribcu at gmail.com (Keri) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 15:37:42 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> That seems to be the most common. On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker look out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Gerard Sadlier > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > Hi, > > This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in reading re: adaptations etc. suggested. > > Thanks > > Ger > > On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: >> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. >> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real policeman) >> offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I don't think there >> is official methods. My school is willing to teach for different >> situations however to students, staff, and faculty. >> >> >> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal question >>> (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that many of us are >>> governmental employees, or at least in larger groups, I am hoping >>> there is an answer among us. >>> >>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple of years. >>> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or suggestions for >>> those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. Has anyone >>> participated in a training that accounts for these differences? Does >>> any such training even exist? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail >>> .com >> -- >> Keri >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%4 >> 0gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail.com -- Keri From Attorney at alcidonislaw.com Wed Dec 9 20:57:42 2015 From: Attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis, Esquire) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 15:57:42 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> Message-ID: In an active shooting situation, one is really capable of believing that a random co-worker will assume the responsibility of "looking out" for a blind person at their peril? This is not impossible, but such acts are usually based on impulsive generosity more than anything else. I would not rely on that advice for a bit. Rod Original Message----- From: Keri via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:37 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Keri Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? That seems to be the most common. On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker look > out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerard > Sadlier via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Gerard Sadlier > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > Hi, > > This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in reading > re: adaptations etc. suggested. > > Thanks > > Ger > > On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: >> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. >> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real policeman) >> offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I don't think there >> is official methods. My school is willing to teach for different >> situations however to students, staff, and faculty. >> >> >> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal question >>> (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that many of us are >>> governmental employees, or at least in larger groups, I am hoping >>> there is an answer among us. >>> >>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple of >>> years. >>> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or suggestions for >>> those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. Has anyone >>> participated in a training that accounts for these differences? Does >>> any such training even exist? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail >>> .com >> -- >> Keri >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%4 >> 0gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail.com -- Keri _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com From rothmanjd at gmail.com Thu Dec 10 02:10:24 2015 From: rothmanjd at gmail.com (Ronza Othman) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 21:10:24 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> Message-ID: <012201d132ef$eee0d6a0$cca283e0$@gmail.com> My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared towards working with employees with disabilities. So when we get the Active Shooter Training, evacuation training, shelter in place training, biohazard training, all of it, they do think about and talk about how individuals with disabilities can respond. For active shooter, the rule is run, hide, fight. Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as possible (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't going to be seen. They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to run or hide. When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a sturdy location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible. They suggest you scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a couple of options for "safe rooms" like storage rooms. They talk about how bathrooms aren't always the best place to hide because the doors don't lock. They talk about how folks in wheelchairs, to the extent possible, should either find places to hide where their chairs are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out of their chairs to secure a smaller hiding place. And with regard to fight, they say to use whatever you have access to - hands, equipment, whatever, to fight. Hope this helps. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Keri Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? That seems to be the most common. On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker look out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Gerard Sadlier > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > Hi, > > This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in reading re: adaptations etc. suggested. > > Thanks > > Ger > > On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: >> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. >> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real policeman) >> offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I don't think there >> is official methods. My school is willing to teach for different >> situations however to students, staff, and faculty. >> >> >> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal question >>> (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that many of us >>> are governmental employees, or at least in larger groups, I am >>> hoping there is an answer among us. >>> >>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple of years. >>> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or suggestions >>> for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. Has anyone >>> participated in a training that accounts for these differences? >>> Does any such training even exist? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmai >>> l >>> .com >> -- >> Keri >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier% >> 4 >> 0gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pi > ma.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail. > com -- Keri _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmail.com From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Thu Dec 10 14:58:46 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 14:58:46 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: <012201d132ef$eee0d6a0$cca283e0$@gmail.com> References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> <012201d132ef$eee0d6a0$cca283e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks - that has always been my thought and plan. Being small, I figure that I can hide in an evidence cabinet in the courtroom if nothing else exists. Allegedly, there is a space for wheelchair bound persons in the judicial chambers area at court, but...this is on the second floor, and is in a mag-card protected restricted area. It is thus difficult to figure how that will work in such a situation, particularly given that we have only two, very small elevators. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ronza Othman via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:10 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Ronza Othman Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared towards working with employees with disabilities. So when we get the Active Shooter Training, evacuation training, shelter in place training, biohazard training, all of it, they do think about and talk about how individuals with disabilities can respond. For active shooter, the rule is run, hide, fight. Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as possible (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't going to be seen. They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to run or hide. When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a sturdy location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible. They suggest you scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a couple of options for "safe rooms" like storage rooms. They talk about how bathrooms aren't always the best place to hide because the doors don't lock. They talk about how folks in wheelchairs, to the extent possible, should either find places to hide where their chairs are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out of their chairs to secure a smaller hiding place. And with regard to fight, they say to use whatever you have access to - hands, equipment, whatever, to fight. Hope this helps. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Keri Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? That seems to be the most common. On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker > look out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Gerard Sadlier > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > Hi, > > This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in > reading re: adaptations etc. suggested. > > Thanks > > Ger > > On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: >> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. >> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real policeman) >> offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I don't think there >> is official methods. My school is willing to teach for different >> situations however to students, staff, and faculty. >> >> >> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal question >>> (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that many of us >>> are governmental employees, or at least in larger groups, I am >>> hoping there is an answer among us. >>> >>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple of years. >>> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or suggestions >>> for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. Has anyone >>> participated in a training that accounts for these differences? >>> Does any such training even exist? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmai >>> l >>> .com >> -- >> Keri >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier% >> 4 >> 0gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pi > ma.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail. > com -- Keri _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com Thu Dec 10 16:19:32 2015 From: shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com (Shelley Richards) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 11:19:32 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> <012201d132ef$eee0d6a0$cca283e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hiding in the evidence cabinet, I like that idea. I would definitely fit in one. I think the best advice is to figure out for yourself ahead of time where the best hiding places are, and be sure you know how to get to those places from anywhere in the building you might be. Have someone help at first if needed until you are confident that you can get several possible locations on your own from anywhere you might be. I have never been involved in an actual drill because my building has not done them, but I have thought about it before and always figured I just need to have good hiding places in mind which I know I can get to confidently. Of course I also think of places where my dog can hide with me as well. I definitely would think this might be a more difficult situation for a wheel chair user. I would be interested in talking to some wheel chair users to see what they might think is a good way to deal with this type of situation. I have to agree that relying on a sighted coworker is not necessarily a good plan. I personally would not feel confident relying on sighted assistance from anybody in a situation which is almost definitely going to cause panic and chaos. It is also such an unpredictable situation, and nobody really knows how they will handle it until it happens. Definitely not the best time to be counting on someone else who does not even know how they themselves will handle a real life active shooter situation. Shelley Palmadessa On 12/10/15, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > Thanks - that has always been my thought and plan. Being small, I figure > that I can hide in an evidence cabinet in the courtroom if nothing else > exists. Allegedly, there is a space for wheelchair bound persons in the > judicial chambers area at court, but...this is on the second floor, and is > in a mag-card protected restricted area. It is thus difficult to figure how > that will work in such a situation, particularly given that we have only > two, very small elevators. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ronza > Othman via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:10 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Ronza Othman > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared towards > working with employees with disabilities. So when we get the Active Shooter > Training, evacuation training, shelter in place training, biohazard > training, all of it, they do think about and talk about how individuals with > disabilities can respond. For active shooter, the rule is run, hide, > fight. > Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as possible > (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't going to be > seen. > They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to run or > hide. When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a sturdy > location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible. They suggest you > scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a couple of options for "safe > rooms" like storage rooms. They talk about how bathrooms aren't always the > best place to hide because the doors don't lock. They talk about how folks > in wheelchairs, to the extent possible, should either find places to hide > where their chairs are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out > of their chairs to secure a smaller hiding place. And with regard to fight, > they say to use whatever you have access to - hands, equipment, whatever, to > fight. > > Hope this helps. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri via > blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Keri > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > That seems to be the most common. > > On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >> So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker >> look > out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Gerard Sadlier >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >> >> Hi, >> >> This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in >> reading > re: adaptations etc. suggested. >> >> Thanks >> >> Ger >> >> On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: >>> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. >>> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real policeman) >>> offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I don't think there >>> is official methods. My school is willing to teach for different >>> situations however to students, staff, and faculty. >>> >>> >>> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal question >>>> (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that many of us >>>> are governmental employees, or at least in larger groups, I am >>>> hoping there is an answer among us. >>>> >>>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple of > years. >>>> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or suggestions >>>> for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. Has anyone >>>> participated in a training that accounts for these differences? >>>> Does any such training even exist? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmai >>>> l >>>> .com >>> -- >>> Keri >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier% >>> 4 >>> 0gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pi >> ma.gov >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail. >> com > > -- > Keri > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards9%40gmail.com > -- Thank You Shelley Palmadessa shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com From dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 10 22:44:33 2015 From: dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net (Daniel McBride) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 16:44:33 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> <012201d132ef$eee0d6a0$cca283e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00d501d1339c$57cc3310$07649930$@sbcglobal.net> Dear List: I have been following this thread with some interest. I would like to point out that your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are greater than the odds that you will ever be confronted a so-called active shooter. And I never spend one minute of my life with concerns of being struck by lightning. Daniel McBride Fort Worth, Texas -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shelley Richards via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:20 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Shelley Richards Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? Hiding in the evidence cabinet, I like that idea. I would definitely fit in one. I think the best advice is to figure out for yourself ahead of time where the best hiding places are, and be sure you know how to get to those places from anywhere in the building you might be. Have someone help at first if needed until you are confident that you can get several possible locations on your own from anywhere you might be. I have never been involved in an actual drill because my building has not done them, but I have thought about it before and always figured I just need to have good hiding places in mind which I know I can get to confidently. Of course I also think of places where my dog can hide with me as well. I definitely would think this might be a more difficult situation for a wheel chair user. I would be interested in talking to some wheel chair users to see what they might think is a good way to deal with this type of situation. I have to agree that relying on a sighted coworker is not necessarily a good plan. I personally would not feel confident relying on sighted assistance from anybody in a situation which is almost definitely going to cause panic and chaos. It is also such an unpredictable situation, and nobody really knows how they will handle it until it happens. Definitely not the best time to be counting on someone else who does not even know how they themselves will handle a real life active shooter situation. Shelley Palmadessa On 12/10/15, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > Thanks - that has always been my thought and plan. Being small, I > figure that I can hide in an evidence cabinet in the courtroom if > nothing else exists. Allegedly, there is a space for wheelchair bound > persons in the judicial chambers area at court, but...this is on the > second floor, and is in a mag-card protected restricted area. It is > thus difficult to figure how that will work in such a situation, > particularly given that we have only two, very small elevators. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ronza > Othman via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:10 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Ronza Othman > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared > towards working with employees with disabilities. So when we get the > Active Shooter Training, evacuation training, shelter in place > training, biohazard training, all of it, they do think about and talk > about how individuals with disabilities can respond. For active > shooter, the rule is run, hide, fight. > Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as > possible (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't > going to be seen. > They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to > run or hide. When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a > sturdy location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible. > They suggest you scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a > couple of options for "safe rooms" like storage rooms. They talk > about how bathrooms aren't always the best place to hide because the > doors don't lock. They talk about how folks in wheelchairs, to the > extent possible, should either find places to hide where their chairs > are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out of their > chairs to secure a smaller hiding place. And with regard to fight, > they say to use whatever you have access to - hands, equipment, whatever, to fight. > > Hope this helps. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri > via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Keri > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > That seems to be the most common. > > On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >> So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker >> look > out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Gerard Sadlier >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >> >> Hi, >> >> This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in >> reading > re: adaptations etc. suggested. >> >> Thanks >> >> Ger >> >> On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: >>> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. >>> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real policeman) >>> offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I don't think there >>> is official methods. My school is willing to teach for different >>> situations however to students, staff, and faculty. >>> >>> >>> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal >>>> question (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that >>>> many of us are governmental employees, or at least in larger >>>> groups, I am hoping there is an answer among us. >>>> >>>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple of > years. >>>> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or suggestions >>>> for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. Has anyone >>>> participated in a training that accounts for these differences? >>>> Does any such training even exist? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gma >>>> i >>>> l >>>> .com >>> -- >>> Keri >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier >>> % >>> 4 >>> 0gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40p >> i >> ma.gov >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail. >> com > > -- > Keri > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pi > ma.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards9 > %40gmail.com > -- Thank You Shelley Palmadessa shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Thu Dec 10 22:49:37 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 22:49:37 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: <00d501d1339c$57cc3310$07649930$@sbcglobal.net> References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> <012201d132ef$eee0d6a0$cca283e0$@gmail.com> <00d501d1339c$57cc3310$07649930$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: True enough - but before these trainings were the rage, we already had a potential situation at our courthouse (juvenile), where a person who had just assaulted a street vendor then escaped into our facility and was actively evading security, suspected of being armed. One of our then-pregnant co-workers ended up locked in detention, missing lunch and meds, for several hours due to the lockdown. We don't handle emergencies well as an organization, it seems. Thus, trying to think ahead. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 3:45 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Daniel McBride Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? Dear List: I have been following this thread with some interest. I would like to point out that your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are greater than the odds that you will ever be confronted a so-called active shooter. And I never spend one minute of my life with concerns of being struck by lightning. Daniel McBride Fort Worth, Texas -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shelley Richards via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:20 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Shelley Richards Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? Hiding in the evidence cabinet, I like that idea. I would definitely fit in one. I think the best advice is to figure out for yourself ahead of time where the best hiding places are, and be sure you know how to get to those places from anywhere in the building you might be. Have someone help at first if needed until you are confident that you can get several possible locations on your own from anywhere you might be. I have never been involved in an actual drill because my building has not done them, but I have thought about it before and always figured I just need to have good hiding places in mind which I know I can get to confidently. Of course I also think of places where my dog can hide with me as well. I definitely would think this might be a more difficult situation for a wheel chair user. I would be interested in talking to some wheel chair users to see what they might think is a good way to deal with this type of situation. I have to agree that relying on a sighted coworker is not necessarily a good plan. I personally would not feel confident relying on sighted assistance from anybody in a situation which is almost definitely going to cause panic and chaos. It is also such an unpredictable situation, and nobody really knows how they will handle it until it happens. Definitely not the best time to be counting on someone else who does not even know how they themselves will handle a real life active shooter situation. Shelley Palmadessa On 12/10/15, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > Thanks - that has always been my thought and plan. Being small, I > figure that I can hide in an evidence cabinet in the courtroom if > nothing else exists. Allegedly, there is a space for wheelchair bound > persons in the judicial chambers area at court, but...this is on the > second floor, and is in a mag-card protected restricted area. It is > thus difficult to figure how that will work in such a situation, > particularly given that we have only two, very small elevators. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ronza > Othman via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:10 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Ronza Othman > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared > towards working with employees with disabilities. So when we get the > Active Shooter Training, evacuation training, shelter in place > training, biohazard training, all of it, they do think about and talk > about how individuals with disabilities can respond. For active > shooter, the rule is run, hide, fight. > Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as > possible (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't > going to be seen. > They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to > run or hide. When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a > sturdy location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible. > They suggest you scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a > couple of options for "safe rooms" like storage rooms. They talk > about how bathrooms aren't always the best place to hide because the > doors don't lock. They talk about how folks in wheelchairs, to the > extent possible, should either find places to hide where their chairs > are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out of their > chairs to secure a smaller hiding place. And with regard to fight, > they say to use whatever you have access to - hands, equipment, > whatever, to fight. > > Hope this helps. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri > via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Keri > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > That seems to be the most common. > > On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >> So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker >> look > out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Gerard Sadlier >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >> >> Hi, >> >> This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in >> reading > re: adaptations etc. suggested. >> >> Thanks >> >> Ger >> >> On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: >>> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. >>> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real policeman) >>> offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I don't think there >>> is official methods. My school is willing to teach for different >>> situations however to students, staff, and faculty. >>> >>> >>> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal >>>> question (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that >>>> many of us are governmental employees, or at least in larger >>>> groups, I am hoping there is an answer among us. >>>> >>>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple of > years. >>>> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or suggestions >>>> for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. Has anyone >>>> participated in a training that accounts for these differences? >>>> Does any such training even exist? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gma >>>> i >>>> l >>>> .com >>> -- >>> Keri >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier >>> % >>> 4 >>> 0gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40p >> i >> ma.gov >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail. >> com > > -- > Keri > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pi > ma.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards9 > %40gmail.com > -- Thank You Shelley Palmadessa shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From keribcu at gmail.com Thu Dec 10 23:17:46 2015 From: keribcu at gmail.com (Keri) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 18:17:46 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> <012201d132ef$eee0d6a0$cca283e0$@gmail.com> <00d501d1339c$57cc3310$07649930$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <566A081A.7090102@gmail.com> Might I also point out that shootings are rapidly increasing. For anyone who doesn't think about safety in these situations, they really should. It is foolish not to have knowledge or a plan. On 12/10/2015 5:49 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > True enough - but before these trainings were the rage, we already had a potential situation at our courthouse (juvenile), where a person who had just assaulted a street vendor then escaped into our facility and was actively evading security, suspected of being armed. One of our then-pregnant co-workers ended up locked in detention, missing lunch and meds, for several hours due to the lockdown. We don't handle emergencies well as an organization, it seems. Thus, trying to think ahead. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride via blindlaw > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 3:45 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Daniel McBride > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > Dear List: > > I have been following this thread with some interest. I would like to point out that your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are greater than the odds that you will ever be confronted a so-called active shooter. And I never spend one minute of my life with concerns of being struck by lightning. > > Daniel McBride > Fort Worth, Texas > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shelley Richards via blindlaw > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:20 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Shelley Richards > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > Hiding in the evidence cabinet, I like that idea. I would definitely fit in one. I think the best advice is to figure out for yourself ahead of time where the best hiding places are, and be sure you know how to get to those places from anywhere in the building you might be. > Have someone help at first if needed until you are confident that you can get several possible locations on your own from anywhere you might be. I have never been involved in an actual drill because my building has not done them, but I have thought about it before and always figured I just need to have good hiding places in mind which I know I can get to confidently. Of course I also think of places where my dog can hide with me as well. > I definitely would think this might be a more difficult situation for a wheel chair user. I would be interested in talking to some wheel chair users to see what they might think is a good way to deal with this type of situation. > I have to agree that relying on a sighted coworker is not necessarily a good plan. I personally would not feel confident relying on sighted assistance from anybody in a situation which is almost definitely going to cause panic and chaos. It is also such an unpredictable situation, and nobody really knows how they will handle it until it happens. Definitely not the best time to be counting on someone else who does not even know how they themselves will handle a real life active shooter situation. > > Shelley Palmadessa > > On 12/10/15, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >> Thanks - that has always been my thought and plan. Being small, I >> figure that I can hide in an evidence cabinet in the courtroom if >> nothing else exists. Allegedly, there is a space for wheelchair bound >> persons in the judicial chambers area at court, but...this is on the >> second floor, and is in a mag-card protected restricted area. It is >> thus difficult to figure how that will work in such a situation, >> particularly given that we have only two, very small elevators. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ronza >> Othman via blindlaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:10 PM >> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >> Cc: Ronza Othman >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >> >> My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared >> towards working with employees with disabilities. So when we get the >> Active Shooter Training, evacuation training, shelter in place >> training, biohazard training, all of it, they do think about and talk >> about how individuals with disabilities can respond. For active >> shooter, the rule is run, hide, fight. >> Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as >> possible (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't >> going to be seen. >> They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to >> run or hide. When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a >> sturdy location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible. >> They suggest you scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a >> couple of options for "safe rooms" like storage rooms. They talk >> about how bathrooms aren't always the best place to hide because the >> doors don't lock. They talk about how folks in wheelchairs, to the >> extent possible, should either find places to hide where their chairs >> are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out of their >> chairs to secure a smaller hiding place. And with regard to fight, >> they say to use whatever you have access to - hands, equipment, >> whatever, > to fight. >> Hope this helps. >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri >> via blindlaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Keri >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >> >> That seems to be the most common. >> >> On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>> So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker >>> look >> out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>> Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in >>> reading >> re: adaptations etc. suggested. >>> Thanks >>> >>> Ger >>> >>> On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: >>>> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. >>>> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real policeman) >>>> offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I don't think there >>>> is official methods. My school is willing to teach for different >>>> situations however to students, staff, and faculty. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal >>>>> question (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that >>>>> many of us are governmental employees, or at least in larger >>>>> groups, I am hoping there is an answer among us. >>>>> >>>>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple of >> years. >>>>> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or suggestions >>>>> for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. Has anyone >>>>> participated in a training that accounts for these differences? >>>>> Does any such training even exist? >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gma >>>>> i >>>>> l >>>>> .com >>>> -- >>>> Keri >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier >>>> % >>>> 4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40p >>> i >>> ma.gov >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail. >>> com >> -- >> Keri >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pi >> ma.gov >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards9 >> %40gmail.com >> > > -- > Thank You > Shelley Palmadessa > shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail.com -- Keri From dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net Fri Dec 11 00:31:13 2015 From: dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net (Daniel McBride) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 18:31:13 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: <566A081A.7090102@gmail.com> References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> <012201d132ef$eee0d6a0$cca283e0$@gmail.com> <00d501d1339c$57cc3310$07649930$@sbcglobal.net> <566A081A.7090102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <014d01d133ab$3e6f70d0$bb4e5270$@sbcglobal.net> Keri: The notion that these shootings are "rapidly" increasing is nonsense. This is a fear tactic created by government and mass media propaganda. Your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are far greater than that you will ever be confronted by an active shooter. Do you have a lightning strike plan? Where is the government and mass media hysteria about lightning? We do not see the media hysteria about lightning because nobody would pay attention. We live in a police state of total surveillance. It is getting worse daily, weekly and monthly. Americans are volunteering themselves into this total surveillance police state and these shootings are most convenient for fear mongering hype and hysteria. And then they have Americans, nationwide, all worked up about safety and security to induce them into accepting the police state. Yet not one of these Americans are the least bit concerned about getting struck by lightning. Furthermore, FBI statistics on violent crime clearly show that, if you, I or any American was to be shot with a firearm, the odds are greater than 80% that it would be by someone we know personally, like a spouse, former spouse or other family member or acquaintance. To be concerned with the danger of being confronted by an active shooter scenario is a big waste of emotional energy. You would be statistically better off expending your emotional energy worrying about being struck by lightning, being shot by a family member or, for that matter, being in a serious auto accident or falling in your shower, all of which are significantly more likely to harm you than being confronted by an active shooter. Daniel McBride -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:18 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Keri Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? Might I also point out that shootings are rapidly increasing. For anyone who doesn't think about safety in these situations, they really should. It is foolish not to have knowledge or a plan. On 12/10/2015 5:49 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > True enough - but before these trainings were the rage, we already had a potential situation at our courthouse (juvenile), where a person who had just assaulted a street vendor then escaped into our facility and was actively evading security, suspected of being armed. One of our then-pregnant co-workers ended up locked in detention, missing lunch and meds, for several hours due to the lockdown. We don't handle emergencies well as an organization, it seems. Thus, trying to think ahead. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride via blindlaw > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 3:45 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Daniel McBride > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > Dear List: > > I have been following this thread with some interest. I would like to point out that your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are greater than the odds that you will ever be confronted a so-called active shooter. And I never spend one minute of my life with concerns of being struck by lightning. > > Daniel McBride > Fort Worth, Texas > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shelley Richards via blindlaw > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:20 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Shelley Richards > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > Hiding in the evidence cabinet, I like that idea. I would definitely fit in one. I think the best advice is to figure out for yourself ahead of time where the best hiding places are, and be sure you know how to get to those places from anywhere in the building you might be. > Have someone help at first if needed until you are confident that you can get several possible locations on your own from anywhere you might be. I have never been involved in an actual drill because my building has not done them, but I have thought about it before and always figured I just need to have good hiding places in mind which I know I can get to confidently. Of course I also think of places where my dog can hide with me as well. > I definitely would think this might be a more difficult situation for a wheel chair user. I would be interested in talking to some wheel chair users to see what they might think is a good way to deal with this type of situation. > I have to agree that relying on a sighted coworker is not necessarily a good plan. I personally would not feel confident relying on sighted assistance from anybody in a situation which is almost definitely going to cause panic and chaos. It is also such an unpredictable situation, and nobody really knows how they will handle it until it happens. Definitely not the best time to be counting on someone else who does not even know how they themselves will handle a real life active shooter situation. > > Shelley Palmadessa > > On 12/10/15, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >> Thanks - that has always been my thought and plan. Being small, I >> figure that I can hide in an evidence cabinet in the courtroom if >> nothing else exists. Allegedly, there is a space for wheelchair bound >> persons in the judicial chambers area at court, but...this is on the >> second floor, and is in a mag-card protected restricted area. It is >> thus difficult to figure how that will work in such a situation, >> particularly given that we have only two, very small elevators. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ronza >> Othman via blindlaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:10 PM >> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >> Cc: Ronza Othman >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >> >> My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared >> towards working with employees with disabilities. So when we get the >> Active Shooter Training, evacuation training, shelter in place >> training, biohazard training, all of it, they do think about and talk >> about how individuals with disabilities can respond. For active >> shooter, the rule is run, hide, fight. >> Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as >> possible (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't >> going to be seen. >> They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to >> run or hide. When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a >> sturdy location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible. >> They suggest you scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a >> couple of options for "safe rooms" like storage rooms. They talk >> about how bathrooms aren't always the best place to hide because the >> doors don't lock. They talk about how folks in wheelchairs, to the >> extent possible, should either find places to hide where their chairs >> are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out of their >> chairs to secure a smaller hiding place. And with regard to fight, >> they say to use whatever you have access to - hands, equipment, >> whatever, > to fight. >> Hope this helps. >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri >> via blindlaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Keri >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >> >> That seems to be the most common. >> >> On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>> So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker >>> look >> out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>> Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in >>> reading >> re: adaptations etc. suggested. >>> Thanks >>> >>> Ger >>> >>> On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: >>>> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. >>>> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real policeman) >>>> offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I don't think there >>>> is official methods. My school is willing to teach for different >>>> situations however to students, staff, and faculty. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal >>>>> question (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that >>>>> many of us are governmental employees, or at least in larger >>>>> groups, I am hoping there is an answer among us. >>>>> >>>>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple of >> years. >>>>> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or suggestions >>>>> for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. Has anyone >>>>> participated in a training that accounts for these differences? >>>>> Does any such training even exist? >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gma >>>>> i >>>>> l >>>>> .com >>>> -- >>>> Keri >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier >>>> % >>>> 4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40p >>> i >>> ma.gov >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail. >>> com >> -- >> Keri >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pi >> ma.gov >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards9 >> %40gmail.com >> > > -- > Thank You > Shelley Palmadessa > shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail.com -- Keri _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net From rothmanjd at gmail.com Fri Dec 11 01:17:38 2015 From: rothmanjd at gmail.com (Ronza Othman) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 20:17:38 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> <012201d132ef$eee0d6a0$cca283e0$@gmail.com> <00d501d1339c$57cc3310$07649930$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <009801d133b1$ba2a5720$2e7f0560$@gmail.com> My Agency seems to go on lockdown 3-4 times a year, and just a few weeks back someone tried to get into the complex to shot some employees. This isn't as uncommon as you would imagine, particularly for lawyers and government employees; even though we are in a helping profession, people just don't like us much. Also, the term "going postal" is a thing due to significant numbers of workplace violence incidents afterall. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:50 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? True enough - but before these trainings were the rage, we already had a potential situation at our courthouse (juvenile), where a person who had just assaulted a street vendor then escaped into our facility and was actively evading security, suspected of being armed. One of our then-pregnant co-workers ended up locked in detention, missing lunch and meds, for several hours due to the lockdown. We don't handle emergencies well as an organization, it seems. Thus, trying to think ahead. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 3:45 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Daniel McBride Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? Dear List: I have been following this thread with some interest. I would like to point out that your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are greater than the odds that you will ever be confronted a so-called active shooter. And I never spend one minute of my life with concerns of being struck by lightning. Daniel McBride Fort Worth, Texas -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shelley Richards via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:20 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Shelley Richards Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? Hiding in the evidence cabinet, I like that idea. I would definitely fit in one. I think the best advice is to figure out for yourself ahead of time where the best hiding places are, and be sure you know how to get to those places from anywhere in the building you might be. Have someone help at first if needed until you are confident that you can get several possible locations on your own from anywhere you might be. I have never been involved in an actual drill because my building has not done them, but I have thought about it before and always figured I just need to have good hiding places in mind which I know I can get to confidently. Of course I also think of places where my dog can hide with me as well. I definitely would think this might be a more difficult situation for a wheel chair user. I would be interested in talking to some wheel chair users to see what they might think is a good way to deal with this type of situation. I have to agree that relying on a sighted coworker is not necessarily a good plan. I personally would not feel confident relying on sighted assistance from anybody in a situation which is almost definitely going to cause panic and chaos. It is also such an unpredictable situation, and nobody really knows how they will handle it until it happens. Definitely not the best time to be counting on someone else who does not even know how they themselves will handle a real life active shooter situation. Shelley Palmadessa On 12/10/15, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > Thanks - that has always been my thought and plan. Being small, I > figure that I can hide in an evidence cabinet in the courtroom if > nothing else exists. Allegedly, there is a space for wheelchair bound > persons in the judicial chambers area at court, but...this is on the > second floor, and is in a mag-card protected restricted area. It is > thus difficult to figure how that will work in such a situation, > particularly given that we have only two, very small elevators. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ronza > Othman via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:10 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Ronza Othman > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared > towards working with employees with disabilities. So when we get the > Active Shooter Training, evacuation training, shelter in place > training, biohazard training, all of it, they do think about and talk > about how individuals with disabilities can respond. For active > shooter, the rule is run, hide, fight. > Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as > possible (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't > going to be seen. > They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to > run or hide. When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a > sturdy location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible. > They suggest you scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a > couple of options for "safe rooms" like storage rooms. They talk > about how bathrooms aren't always the best place to hide because the > doors don't lock. They talk about how folks in wheelchairs, to the > extent possible, should either find places to hide where their chairs > are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out of their > chairs to secure a smaller hiding place. And with regard to fight, > they say to use whatever you have access to - hands, equipment, > whatever, to fight. > > Hope this helps. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri > via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Keri > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > That seems to be the most common. > > On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >> So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker >> look > out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Gerard Sadlier >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >> >> Hi, >> >> This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in >> reading > re: adaptations etc. suggested. >> >> Thanks >> >> Ger >> >> On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: >>> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. >>> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real policeman) >>> offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I don't think there >>> is official methods. My school is willing to teach for different >>> situations however to students, staff, and faculty. >>> >>> >>> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal >>>> question (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that >>>> many of us are governmental employees, or at least in larger >>>> groups, I am hoping there is an answer among us. >>>> >>>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple of > years. >>>> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or suggestions >>>> for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. Has anyone >>>> participated in a training that accounts for these differences? >>>> Does any such training even exist? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gma >>>> i >>>> l >>>> .com >>> -- >>> Keri >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier >>> % >>> 4 >>> 0gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40p >> i >> ma.gov >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail. >> com > > -- > Keri > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pi > ma.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards9 > %40gmail.com > -- Thank You Shelley Palmadessa shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmail.com From rothmanjd at gmail.com Fri Dec 11 01:18:42 2015 From: rothmanjd at gmail.com (Ronza Othman) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 20:18:42 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: <014d01d133ab$3e6f70d0$bb4e5270$@sbcglobal.net> References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> <012201d132ef$eee0d6a0$cca283e0$@gmail.com> <00d501d1339c$57cc3310$07649930$@sbcglobal.net> <566A081A.7090102@gmail.com> <014d01d133ab$3e6f70d0$bb4e5270$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <00a201d133b1$e0b3e910$a21bbb30$@gmail.com> I have a plan if I am outside when there is a lightning storm, and I encourage all of you to come up with one too BTW. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 7:31 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Daniel McBride Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? Keri: The notion that these shootings are "rapidly" increasing is nonsense. This is a fear tactic created by government and mass media propaganda. Your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are far greater than that you will ever be confronted by an active shooter. Do you have a lightning strike plan? Where is the government and mass media hysteria about lightning? We do not see the media hysteria about lightning because nobody would pay attention. We live in a police state of total surveillance. It is getting worse daily, weekly and monthly. Americans are volunteering themselves into this total surveillance police state and these shootings are most convenient for fear mongering hype and hysteria. And then they have Americans, nationwide, all worked up about safety and security to induce them into accepting the police state. Yet not one of these Americans are the least bit concerned about getting struck by lightning. Furthermore, FBI statistics on violent crime clearly show that, if you, I or any American was to be shot with a firearm, the odds are greater than 80% that it would be by someone we know personally, like a spouse, former spouse or other family member or acquaintance. To be concerned with the danger of being confronted by an active shooter scenario is a big waste of emotional energy. You would be statistically better off expending your emotional energy worrying about being struck by lightning, being shot by a family member or, for that matter, being in a serious auto accident or falling in your shower, all of which are significantly more likely to harm you than being confronted by an active shooter. Daniel McBride -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:18 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Keri Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? Might I also point out that shootings are rapidly increasing. For anyone who doesn't think about safety in these situations, they really should. It is foolish not to have knowledge or a plan. On 12/10/2015 5:49 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > True enough - but before these trainings were the rage, we already had > a potential situation at our courthouse (juvenile), where a person who had just assaulted a street vendor then escaped into our facility and was actively evading security, suspected of being armed. One of our then-pregnant co-workers ended up locked in detention, missing lunch and meds, for several hours due to the lockdown. We don't handle emergencies well as an organization, it seems. Thus, trying to think ahead. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Daniel McBride via blindlaw > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 3:45 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Daniel McBride > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > Dear List: > > I have been following this thread with some interest. I would like to point out that your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are greater than the odds that you will ever be confronted a so-called active shooter. And I never spend one minute of my life with concerns of being struck by lightning. > > Daniel McBride > Fort Worth, Texas > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of > Shelley Richards via blindlaw > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:20 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Shelley Richards > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > Hiding in the evidence cabinet, I like that idea. I would definitely > fit in one. I think the best advice is to figure out for yourself ahead of time where the best hiding places are, and be sure you know how to get to those places from anywhere in the building you might be. > Have someone help at first if needed until you are confident that you > can get several possible locations on your own from anywhere you might be. I have never been involved in an actual drill because my building has not done them, but I have thought about it before and always figured I just need to have good hiding places in mind which I know I can get to confidently. Of course I also think of places where my dog can hide with me as well. > I definitely would think this might be a more difficult situation for > a wheel chair user. I would be interested in talking to some wheel chair users to see what they might think is a good way to deal with this type of situation. > I have to agree that relying on a sighted coworker is not necessarily > a good plan. I personally would not feel confident relying on sighted assistance from anybody in a situation which is almost definitely going to cause panic and chaos. It is also such an unpredictable situation, and nobody really knows how they will handle it until it happens. Definitely not the best time to be counting on someone else who does not even know how they themselves will handle a real life active shooter situation. > > Shelley Palmadessa > > On 12/10/15, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >> Thanks - that has always been my thought and plan. Being small, I >> figure that I can hide in an evidence cabinet in the courtroom if >> nothing else exists. Allegedly, there is a space for wheelchair >> bound persons in the judicial chambers area at court, but...this is >> on the second floor, and is in a mag-card protected restricted area. >> It is thus difficult to figure how that will work in such a >> situation, particularly given that we have only two, very small elevators. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Ronza Othman via blindlaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:10 PM >> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >> Cc: Ronza Othman >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >> >> My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared >> towards working with employees with disabilities. So when we get the >> Active Shooter Training, evacuation training, shelter in place >> training, biohazard training, all of it, they do think about and talk >> about how individuals with disabilities can respond. For active >> shooter, the rule is run, hide, fight. >> Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as >> possible (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't >> going to be seen. >> They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to >> run or hide. When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a >> sturdy location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible. >> They suggest you scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a >> couple of options for "safe rooms" like storage rooms. They talk >> about how bathrooms aren't always the best place to hide because the >> doors don't lock. They talk about how folks in wheelchairs, to the >> extent possible, should either find places to hide where their chairs >> are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out of their >> chairs to secure a smaller hiding place. And with regard to fight, >> they say to use whatever you have access to - hands, equipment, >> whatever, > to fight. >> Hope this helps. >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri >> via blindlaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Keri >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >> >> That seems to be the most common. >> >> On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>> So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker >>> look >> out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>> Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in >>> reading >> re: adaptations etc. suggested. >>> Thanks >>> >>> Ger >>> >>> On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: >>>> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. >>>> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real policeman) >>>> offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I don't think >>>> there is official methods. My school is willing to teach for >>>> different situations however to students, staff, and faculty. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal >>>>> question (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that >>>>> many of us are governmental employees, or at least in larger >>>>> groups, I am hoping there is an answer among us. >>>>> >>>>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple >>>>> of >> years. >>>>> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or >>>>> suggestions for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. >>>>> Has anyone participated in a training that accounts for these differences? >>>>> Does any such training even exist? >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gm >>>>> a >>>>> i >>>>> l >>>>> .com >>>> -- >>>> Keri >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlie >>>> r >>>> % >>>> 4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 >>> p >>> i >>> ma.gov >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail. >>> com >> -- >> Keri >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gma >> i >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40p >> i >> ma.gov >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards >> 9 >> %40gmail.com >> > > -- > Thank You > Shelley Palmadessa > shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail. > com -- Keri _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmail.com From keribcu at gmail.com Fri Dec 11 01:33:49 2015 From: keribcu at gmail.com (Keri) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 20:33:49 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: <014d01d133ab$3e6f70d0$bb4e5270$@sbcglobal.net> References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> <012201d132ef$eee0d6a0$cca283e0$@gmail.com> <00d501d1339c$57cc3310$07649930$@sbcglobal.net> <566A081A.7090102@gmail.com> <014d01d133ab$3e6f70d0$bb4e5270$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <566A27FD.3000801@gmail.com> Daniel, Are you unaware how many college campuses, and other places have been attacked lately? You obviously aren't concerned one bit about being safe than sorry. On 12/10/2015 7:31 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw wrote: > Keri: > > The notion that these shootings are "rapidly" increasing is nonsense. This > is a fear tactic created by government and mass media propaganda. Your > statistical odds of being struck by lightning are far greater than that you > will ever be confronted by an active shooter. Do you have a lightning strike > plan? Where is the government and mass media hysteria about lightning? We do > not see the media hysteria about lightning because nobody would pay > attention. > > We live in a police state of total surveillance. It is getting worse daily, > weekly and monthly. Americans are volunteering themselves into this total > surveillance police state and these shootings are most convenient for fear > mongering hype and hysteria. And then they have Americans, nationwide, all > worked up about safety and security to induce them into accepting the police > state. Yet not one of these Americans are the least bit concerned about > getting struck by lightning. > > Furthermore, FBI statistics on violent crime clearly show that, if you, I or > any American was to be shot with a firearm, the odds are greater than 80% > that it would be by someone we know personally, like a spouse, former spouse > or other family member or acquaintance. > > To be concerned with the danger of being confronted by an active shooter > scenario is a big waste of emotional energy. You would be statistically > better off expending your emotional energy worrying about being struck by > lightning, being shot by a family member or, for that matter, being in a > serious auto accident or falling in your shower, all of which are > significantly more likely to harm you than being confronted by an active > shooter. > > Daniel McBride > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri via > blindlaw > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:18 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Keri > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > Might I also point out that shootings are rapidly increasing. For anyone who > doesn't think about safety in these situations, they really should. > It is foolish not to have knowledge or a plan. > > > On 12/10/2015 5:49 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >> True enough - but before these trainings were the rage, we already had a > potential situation at our courthouse (juvenile), where a person who had > just assaulted a street vendor then escaped into our facility and was > actively evading security, suspected of being armed. One of our > then-pregnant co-workers ended up locked in detention, missing lunch and > meds, for several hours due to the lockdown. We don't handle emergencies > well as an organization, it seems. Thus, trying to think ahead. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel > McBride via blindlaw >> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 3:45 PM >> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >> Cc: Daniel McBride >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >> >> Dear List: >> >> I have been following this thread with some interest. I would like to > point out that your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are > greater than the odds that you will ever be confronted a so-called active > shooter. And I never spend one minute of my life with concerns of being > struck by lightning. >> Daniel McBride >> Fort Worth, Texas >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shelley > Richards via blindlaw >> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:20 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Shelley Richards >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >> >> Hiding in the evidence cabinet, I like that idea. I would definitely fit > in one. I think the best advice is to figure out for yourself ahead of time > where the best hiding places are, and be sure you know how to get to those > places from anywhere in the building you might be. >> Have someone help at first if needed until you are confident that you can > get several possible locations on your own from anywhere you might be. I > have never been involved in an actual drill because my building has not done > them, but I have thought about it before and always figured I just need to > have good hiding places in mind which I know I can get to confidently. Of > course I also think of places where my dog can hide with me as well. >> I definitely would think this might be a more difficult situation for a > wheel chair user. I would be interested in talking to some wheel chair > users to see what they might think is a good way to deal with this type of > situation. >> I have to agree that relying on a sighted coworker is not necessarily a > good plan. I personally would not feel confident relying on sighted > assistance from anybody in a situation which is almost definitely going to > cause panic and chaos. It is also such an unpredictable situation, and > nobody really knows how they will handle it until it happens. Definitely > not the best time to be counting on someone else who does not even know how > they themselves will handle a real life active shooter situation. >> Shelley Palmadessa >> >> On 12/10/15, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>> Thanks - that has always been my thought and plan. Being small, I >>> figure that I can hide in an evidence cabinet in the courtroom if >>> nothing else exists. Allegedly, there is a space for wheelchair bound >>> persons in the judicial chambers area at court, but...this is on the >>> second floor, and is in a mag-card protected restricted area. It is >>> thus difficult to figure how that will work in such a situation, >>> particularly given that we have only two, very small elevators. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ronza >>> Othman via blindlaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:10 PM >>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Cc: Ronza Othman >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>> >>> My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared >>> towards working with employees with disabilities. So when we get the >>> Active Shooter Training, evacuation training, shelter in place >>> training, biohazard training, all of it, they do think about and talk >>> about how individuals with disabilities can respond. For active >>> shooter, the rule is run, hide, fight. >>> Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as >>> possible (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't >>> going to be seen. >>> They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to >>> run or hide. When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a >>> sturdy location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible. >>> They suggest you scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a >>> couple of options for "safe rooms" like storage rooms. They talk >>> about how bathrooms aren't always the best place to hide because the >>> doors don't lock. They talk about how folks in wheelchairs, to the >>> extent possible, should either find places to hide where their chairs >>> are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out of their >>> chairs to secure a smaller hiding place. And with regard to fight, >>> they say to use whatever you have access to - hands, equipment, >>> whatever, >> to fight. >>> Hope this helps. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri >>> via blindlaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Keri >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>> >>> That seems to be the most common. >>> >>> On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>> So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker >>>> look >>> out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>> Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in >>>> reading >>> re: adaptations etc. suggested. >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Ger >>>> >>>> On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: >>>>> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. >>>>> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real policeman) >>>>> offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I don't think there >>>>> is official methods. My school is willing to teach for different >>>>> situations however to students, staff, and faculty. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>>>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal >>>>>> question (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that >>>>>> many of us are governmental employees, or at least in larger >>>>>> groups, I am hoping there is an answer among us. >>>>>> >>>>>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple of >>> years. >>>>>> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or suggestions >>>>>> for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. Has anyone >>>>>> participated in a training that accounts for these differences? >>>>>> Does any such training even exist? >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gma >>>>>> i >>>>>> l >>>>>> .com >>>>> -- >>>>> Keri >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier >>>>> % >>>>> 4 >>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40p >>>> i >>>> ma.gov >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail. >>>> com >>> -- >>> Keri >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pi >>> ma.gov >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards9 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >> -- >> Thank You >> Shelley Palmadessa >> shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail.com -- Keri From dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net Fri Dec 11 21:03:10 2015 From: dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net (Daniel McBride) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 15:03:10 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: <566A27FD.3000801@gmail.com> References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> <012201d132ef$eee0d6a0$cca283e0$@gmail.com> <00d501d1339c$57cc3310$07649930$@sbcglobal.net> <566A081A.7090102@gmail.com> <014d01d133ab$3e6f70d0$bb4e5270$@sbcglobal.net> <566A27FD.3000801@gmail.com> Message-ID: <016301d13457$5a405660$0ec10320$@sbcglobal.net> Keri: I am well aware of all of the shootings that occur in this country. I am just as aware of the government/mass media efforts to use these situations to create mass hysteria and an environment of unjustified fear in the minds of Americans? And, although it might be fair to suggest that I am obviously not concerned with being safe rather than sorry, there is good, sound and rational reason for not being so concerned. As pointed out, I am more likely to be struck by lightning than that I will be confronted by an active shooter scenario. We have as many thunderstorms in the north Texas area as anywhere in America. Yet, when we are having a storm and I need to go to the courthouse, I get my poncho and cain and walk to the bus stop to get downtown. And I am never in fear of being struck by lightning. Further, all the government/mass media that could be thrown at me to create mass hysteria about a thunderstorm would not effect me. Similarly, I am more likely to be shot by someone I know that I am by an active shooter scenario. Yet, I associate with the people I know and never fear doing so. And no amount of government/mass media fear mongering could dissuade from doing so. I am more likely to be seriously injured or killed in an automobile accident than I am in an active shooter scenario. Yet, I get into cars with others every day. And no amount of government/mass media fear mongering could dissuade from getting into a car. I am more likely to be seriously injured in my shower than by an active shooter scenario. Yet, I take a shower every day. And no amount of government/mass media fear mongering could prevent my taking a shower. I was in the Tarrant County courthouse in 1993, when a disgruntled lawyer, George Lott, entered the courthouse, made his way to a courtroom and shot numerous lawyers and judges, killing one of them. I was not afraid to go into the courthouse the day before George Lott went on his rampage, and I have not been afraid on any day in the 20 years since to go into the courthouse. In fact, my mother was a Tarrant County deputy clerk on the day of George Lott's rampage and she rode on the elevator with George Lott as the courthouse was being evacuated. So, it isn't exactly correct to say that I have no concern for being safe as much as it is that I have nothing to fear. The notion that you are unsafe, that you need to be protected from harm or that you should be fearful is an illogical concept created not by an active shooter situation, but by the mass hysteria created by the government/mass media in the wake of these events. If you want to be so concerned for your safety, then I recommend that you never go outside during a thunderstorm, that you cease associating with your family, friends and acquaintances, that you quit getting into automobiles and that you quit taking showers. Alternatively, you can choose to quit buying into the mass hysteria hype and fear mongering stirred by the government/mass media. Daniel McBride -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 7:34 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Keri Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? Daniel, Are you unaware how many college campuses, and other places have been attacked lately? You obviously aren't concerned one bit about being safe than sorry. On 12/10/2015 7:31 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw wrote: > Keri: > > The notion that these shootings are "rapidly" increasing is nonsense. > This is a fear tactic created by government and mass media propaganda. > Your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are far greater > than that you will ever be confronted by an active shooter. Do you > have a lightning strike plan? Where is the government and mass media > hysteria about lightning? We do not see the media hysteria about > lightning because nobody would pay attention. > > We live in a police state of total surveillance. It is getting worse > daily, weekly and monthly. Americans are volunteering themselves into > this total surveillance police state and these shootings are most > convenient for fear mongering hype and hysteria. And then they have > Americans, nationwide, all worked up about safety and security to > induce them into accepting the police state. Yet not one of these > Americans are the least bit concerned about getting struck by lightning. > > Furthermore, FBI statistics on violent crime clearly show that, if > you, I or any American was to be shot with a firearm, the odds are > greater than 80% that it would be by someone we know personally, like > a spouse, former spouse or other family member or acquaintance. > > To be concerned with the danger of being confronted by an active > shooter scenario is a big waste of emotional energy. You would be > statistically better off expending your emotional energy worrying > about being struck by lightning, being shot by a family member or, for > that matter, being in a serious auto accident or falling in your > shower, all of which are significantly more likely to harm you than > being confronted by an active shooter. > > Daniel McBride > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri > via blindlaw > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:18 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Keri > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > Might I also point out that shootings are rapidly increasing. For > anyone who doesn't think about safety in these situations, they really should. > It is foolish not to have knowledge or a plan. > > > On 12/10/2015 5:49 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >> True enough - but before these trainings were the rage, we already >> had a > potential situation at our courthouse (juvenile), where a person who > had just assaulted a street vendor then escaped into our facility and > was actively evading security, suspected of being armed. One of our > then-pregnant co-workers ended up locked in detention, missing lunch > and meds, for several hours due to the lockdown. We don't handle > emergencies well as an organization, it seems. Thus, trying to think ahead. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Daniel > McBride via blindlaw >> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 3:45 PM >> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >> Cc: Daniel McBride >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >> >> Dear List: >> >> I have been following this thread with some interest. I would like to > point out that your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are > greater than the odds that you will ever be confronted a so-called > active shooter. And I never spend one minute of my life with concerns > of being struck by lightning. >> Daniel McBride >> Fort Worth, Texas >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Shelley > Richards via blindlaw >> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:20 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Shelley Richards >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >> >> Hiding in the evidence cabinet, I like that idea. I would definitely >> fit > in one. I think the best advice is to figure out for yourself ahead > of time where the best hiding places are, and be sure you know how to > get to those places from anywhere in the building you might be. >> Have someone help at first if needed until you are confident that you >> can > get several possible locations on your own from anywhere you might be. > I have never been involved in an actual drill because my building has > not done them, but I have thought about it before and always figured I > just need to have good hiding places in mind which I know I can get to > confidently. Of course I also think of places where my dog can hide with me as well. >> I definitely would think this might be a more difficult situation for >> a > wheel chair user. I would be interested in talking to some wheel > chair users to see what they might think is a good way to deal with > this type of situation. >> I have to agree that relying on a sighted coworker is not necessarily >> a > good plan. I personally would not feel confident relying on sighted > assistance from anybody in a situation which is almost definitely > going to cause panic and chaos. It is also such an unpredictable > situation, and nobody really knows how they will handle it until it > happens. Definitely not the best time to be counting on someone else > who does not even know how they themselves will handle a real life active shooter situation. >> Shelley Palmadessa >> >> On 12/10/15, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>> Thanks - that has always been my thought and plan. Being small, I >>> figure that I can hide in an evidence cabinet in the courtroom if >>> nothing else exists. Allegedly, there is a space for wheelchair >>> bound persons in the judicial chambers area at court, but...this is >>> on the second floor, and is in a mag-card protected restricted area. >>> It is thus difficult to figure how that will work in such a >>> situation, particularly given that we have only two, very small elevators. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>> Ronza Othman via blindlaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:10 PM >>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Cc: Ronza Othman >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>> >>> My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared >>> towards working with employees with disabilities. So when we get >>> the Active Shooter Training, evacuation training, shelter in place >>> training, biohazard training, all of it, they do think about and >>> talk about how individuals with disabilities can respond. For >>> active shooter, the rule is run, hide, fight. >>> Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as >>> possible (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't >>> going to be seen. >>> They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to >>> run or hide. When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a >>> sturdy location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible. >>> They suggest you scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a >>> couple of options for "safe rooms" like storage rooms. They talk >>> about how bathrooms aren't always the best place to hide because the >>> doors don't lock. They talk about how folks in wheelchairs, to the >>> extent possible, should either find places to hide where their >>> chairs are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out of >>> their chairs to secure a smaller hiding place. And with regard to >>> fight, they say to use whatever you have access to - hands, >>> equipment, whatever, >> to fight. >>> Hope this helps. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>> Keri via blindlaw >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Keri >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>> >>> That seems to be the most common. >>> >>> On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>> So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker >>>> look >>> out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>> Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in >>>> reading >>> re: adaptations etc. suggested. >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Ger >>>> >>>> On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: >>>>> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. >>>>> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real >>>>> policeman) offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I >>>>> don't think there is official methods. My school is willing to >>>>> teach for different situations however to students, staff, and faculty. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>>>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal >>>>>> question (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that >>>>>> many of us are governmental employees, or at least in larger >>>>>> groups, I am hoping there is an answer among us. >>>>>> >>>>>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple >>>>>> of >>> years. >>>>>> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or >>>>>> suggestions for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. >>>>>> Has anyone participated in a training that accounts for these differences? >>>>>> Does any such training even exist? >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40g >>>>>> ma >>>>>> i >>>>>> l >>>>>> .com >>>>> -- >>>>> Keri >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadli >>>>> er >>>>> % >>>>> 4 >>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%4 >>>> 0p >>>> i >>>> ma.gov >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail. >>>> com >>> -- >>> Keri >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gm >>> ai >>> l.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 >>> pi >>> ma.gov >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichard >>> s9 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >> -- >> Thank You >> Shelley Palmadessa >> shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglob > al.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pi > ma.gov >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail >> .com -- Keri _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net From d-benbow at live.com Sat Dec 12 00:29:08 2015 From: d-benbow at live.com (Dawn Benbow) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 19:29:08 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: <016301d13457$5a405660$0ec10320$@sbcglobal.net> References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> <012201d132ef$eee0d6a0$cca283e0$@gmail.com> <00d501d1339c$57cc3310$07649930$@sbcglobal.net> <566A081A.7090102@gmail.com> <014d01d133ab$3e6f70d0$bb4e5270$@sbcglobal.net> <566A27FD.3000801@gmail.com> <016301d13457$5a405660$0ec10320$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Hi, Just a simple question here.. Since when is a little pre planning equal to being afraid? When you look at a weather report before going to court, you plan ahead to have your rain jacket. That is pre-planning. Thinking ahead about what we might do in a active shooter situation, even if it never happens, doesn't have to be from fear. I have severe allergies and asthma, because of that I carry an Epi Pen and rescue inhaler with me, as precausions. I also had to be in close contact with the nursing and housekeeping staff before and during my time at guide dog training this summer. Pre-planning is something I need to do. It doesn't mean that the need is out of fear, or that I'll just stay at home so I don't take the risk that I may get sick. Btw, because of my planning, I didn't have any major issues while getting my new guide. I just wanted to make the point that planning ahead isn't as much about fear as you seem to be making it out to be. Having a plan and never needing to use it is great, being to proud to even consider that making a plan just in case, because you don't want to give the appearance of giving in to the fear mongering in the media just seems like flawed logic. I do agree with you about the media btw. I just figure, it's that same media that teaches us to worry about appearinces and when we worry about what not to do based on the media, as much to go against them, just because they blow things out of proportion, it can be as bad as following what they say without question. Dawn Dawn Benbow, Paralegal, Knitting business: WinterWarmKnits.com and Benbowknits.com > On Dec 11, 2015, at 4:05 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw wrote: > > Keri: > > I am well aware of all of the shootings that occur in this country. I am > just as aware of the government/mass media efforts to use these situations > to create mass hysteria and an environment of unjustified fear in the minds > of Americans? And, although it might be fair to suggest that I am obviously > not concerned with being safe rather than sorry, there is good, sound and > rational reason for not being so concerned. > > As pointed out, I am more likely to be struck by lightning than that I will > be confronted by an active shooter scenario. We have as many thunderstorms > in the north Texas area as anywhere in America. Yet, when we are having a > storm and I need to go to the courthouse, I get my poncho and cain and walk > to the bus stop to get downtown. And I am never in fear of being struck by > lightning. Further, all the government/mass media that could be thrown at me > to create mass hysteria about a thunderstorm would not effect me. > > Similarly, I am more likely to be shot by someone I know that I am by an > active shooter scenario. Yet, I associate with the people I know and never > fear doing so. And no amount of government/mass media fear mongering could > dissuade from doing so. > > I am more likely to be seriously injured or killed in an automobile accident > than I am in an active shooter scenario. Yet, I get into cars with others > every day. And no amount of government/mass media fear mongering could > dissuade from getting into a car. > > I am more likely to be seriously injured in my shower than by an active > shooter scenario. Yet, I take a shower every day. And no amount of > government/mass media fear mongering could prevent my taking a shower. > > I was in the Tarrant County courthouse in 1993, when a disgruntled lawyer, > George Lott, entered the courthouse, made his way to a courtroom and shot > numerous lawyers and judges, killing one of them. I was not afraid to go > into the courthouse the day before George Lott went on his rampage, and I > have not been afraid on any day in the 20 years since to go into the > courthouse. In fact, my mother was a Tarrant County deputy clerk on the day > of George Lott's rampage and she rode on the elevator with George Lott as > the courthouse was being evacuated. > > So, it isn't exactly correct to say that I have no concern for being safe as > much as it is that I have nothing to fear. The notion that you are unsafe, > that you need to be protected from harm or that you should be fearful is an > illogical concept created not by an active shooter situation, but by the > mass hysteria created by the government/mass media in the wake of these > events. If you want to be so concerned for your safety, then I recommend > that you never go outside during a thunderstorm, that you cease associating > with your family, friends and acquaintances, that you quit getting into > automobiles and that you quit taking showers. > > Alternatively, you can choose to quit buying into the mass hysteria hype and > fear mongering stirred by the government/mass media. > > Daniel McBride > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri via > blindlaw > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 7:34 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Keri > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > Daniel, > > Are you unaware how many college campuses, and other places have been > attacked lately? You obviously aren't concerned one bit about being safe > than sorry. > > >> On 12/10/2015 7:31 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw wrote: >> Keri: >> >> The notion that these shootings are "rapidly" increasing is nonsense. >> This is a fear tactic created by government and mass media propaganda. >> Your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are far greater >> than that you will ever be confronted by an active shooter. Do you >> have a lightning strike plan? Where is the government and mass media >> hysteria about lightning? We do not see the media hysteria about >> lightning because nobody would pay attention. >> >> We live in a police state of total surveillance. It is getting worse >> daily, weekly and monthly. Americans are volunteering themselves into >> this total surveillance police state and these shootings are most >> convenient for fear mongering hype and hysteria. And then they have >> Americans, nationwide, all worked up about safety and security to >> induce them into accepting the police state. Yet not one of these >> Americans are the least bit concerned about getting struck by lightning. >> >> Furthermore, FBI statistics on violent crime clearly show that, if >> you, I or any American was to be shot with a firearm, the odds are >> greater than 80% that it would be by someone we know personally, like >> a spouse, former spouse or other family member or acquaintance. >> >> To be concerned with the danger of being confronted by an active >> shooter scenario is a big waste of emotional energy. You would be >> statistically better off expending your emotional energy worrying >> about being struck by lightning, being shot by a family member or, for >> that matter, being in a serious auto accident or falling in your >> shower, all of which are significantly more likely to harm you than >> being confronted by an active shooter. >> >> Daniel McBride >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri >> via blindlaw >> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:18 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Keri >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >> >> Might I also point out that shootings are rapidly increasing. For >> anyone who doesn't think about safety in these situations, they really > should. >> It is foolish not to have knowledge or a plan. >> >> >>> On 12/10/2015 5:49 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>> True enough - but before these trainings were the rage, we already >>> had a >> potential situation at our courthouse (juvenile), where a person who >> had just assaulted a street vendor then escaped into our facility and >> was actively evading security, suspected of being armed. One of our >> then-pregnant co-workers ended up locked in detention, missing lunch >> and meds, for several hours due to the lockdown. We don't handle >> emergencies well as an organization, it seems. Thus, trying to think > ahead. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>> Daniel >> McBride via blindlaw >>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 3:45 PM >>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Cc: Daniel McBride >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>> >>> Dear List: >>> >>> I have been following this thread with some interest. I would like to >> point out that your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are >> greater than the odds that you will ever be confronted a so-called >> active shooter. And I never spend one minute of my life with concerns >> of being struck by lightning. >>> Daniel McBride >>> Fort Worth, Texas >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>> Shelley >> Richards via blindlaw >>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:20 AM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Shelley Richards >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>> >>> Hiding in the evidence cabinet, I like that idea. I would definitely >>> fit >> in one. I think the best advice is to figure out for yourself ahead >> of time where the best hiding places are, and be sure you know how to >> get to those places from anywhere in the building you might be. >>> Have someone help at first if needed until you are confident that you >>> can >> get several possible locations on your own from anywhere you might be. >> I have never been involved in an actual drill because my building has >> not done them, but I have thought about it before and always figured I >> just need to have good hiding places in mind which I know I can get to >> confidently. Of course I also think of places where my dog can hide with > me as well. >>> I definitely would think this might be a more difficult situation for >>> a >> wheel chair user. I would be interested in talking to some wheel >> chair users to see what they might think is a good way to deal with >> this type of situation. >>> I have to agree that relying on a sighted coworker is not necessarily >>> a >> good plan. I personally would not feel confident relying on sighted >> assistance from anybody in a situation which is almost definitely >> going to cause panic and chaos. It is also such an unpredictable >> situation, and nobody really knows how they will handle it until it >> happens. Definitely not the best time to be counting on someone else >> who does not even know how they themselves will handle a real life active > shooter situation. >>> Shelley Palmadessa >>> >>>> On 12/10/15, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>> Thanks - that has always been my thought and plan. Being small, I >>>> figure that I can hide in an evidence cabinet in the courtroom if >>>> nothing else exists. Allegedly, there is a space for wheelchair >>>> bound persons in the judicial chambers area at court, but...this is >>>> on the second floor, and is in a mag-card protected restricted area. >>>> It is thus difficult to figure how that will work in such a >>>> situation, particularly given that we have only two, very small > elevators. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>> Ronza Othman via blindlaw >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:10 PM >>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>> Cc: Ronza Othman >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>>> >>>> My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared >>>> towards working with employees with disabilities. So when we get >>>> the Active Shooter Training, evacuation training, shelter in place >>>> training, biohazard training, all of it, they do think about and >>>> talk about how individuals with disabilities can respond. For >>>> active shooter, the rule is run, hide, fight. >>>> Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as >>>> possible (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't >>>> going to be seen. >>>> They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to >>>> run or hide. When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a >>>> sturdy location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible. >>>> They suggest you scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a >>>> couple of options for "safe rooms" like storage rooms. They talk >>>> about how bathrooms aren't always the best place to hide because the >>>> doors don't lock. They talk about how folks in wheelchairs, to the >>>> extent possible, should either find places to hide where their >>>> chairs are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out of >>>> their chairs to secure a smaller hiding place. And with regard to >>>> fight, they say to use whatever you have access to - hands, >>>> equipment, whatever, >>> to fight. >>>> Hope this helps. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>> Keri via blindlaw >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Keri >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>>> >>>> That seems to be the most common. >>>> >>>>> On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>>> So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker >>>>> look >>>> out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in >>>>> reading >>>> re: adaptations etc. suggested. >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> Ger >>>>> >>>>>> On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: >>>>>> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. >>>>>> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real >>>>>> policeman) offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I >>>>>> don't think there is official methods. My school is willing to >>>>>> teach for different situations however to students, staff, and > faculty. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>>>>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal >>>>>>> question (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that >>>>>>> many of us are governmental employees, or at least in larger >>>>>>> groups, I am hoping there is an answer among us. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple >>>>>>> of >>>> years. >>>>>>> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or >>>>>>> suggestions for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. >>>>>>> Has anyone participated in a training that accounts for these > differences? >>>>>>> Does any such training even exist? >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40g >>>>>>> ma >>>>>>> i >>>>>>> l >>>>>>> .com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Keri >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadli >>>>>> er >>>>>> % >>>>>> 4 >>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%4 >>>>> 0p >>>>> i >>>>> ma.gov >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>> -- >>>> Keri >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gm >>>> ai >>>> l.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 >>>> pi >>>> ma.gov >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichard >>>> s9 >>>> %40gmail.com >>> -- >>> Thank You >>> Shelley Palmadessa >>> shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglob >> al.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pi >> ma.gov >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail >>> .com > > -- > Keri > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/d-benbow%40live.com From keribcu at gmail.com Sat Dec 12 00:45:13 2015 From: keribcu at gmail.com (Keri) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 19:45:13 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> <012201d132ef$eee0d6a0$cca283e0$@gmail.com> <00d501d1339c$57cc3310$07649930$@sbcglobal.net> <566A081A.7090102@gmail.com> <014d01d133ab$3e6f70d0$bb4e5270$@sbcglobal.net> <566A27FD.3000801@gmail.com> <016301d13457$5a405660$0ec10320$@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <566B6E19.1080008@gmail.com> Thank you Dawn. Someone has logic. On 12/11/2015 7:29 PM, Dawn Benbow via blindlaw wrote: > Hi, > > Just a simple question here.. Since when is a little pre planning equal to being afraid? When you look at a weather report before going to court, you plan ahead to have your rain jacket. That is pre-planning. Thinking ahead about what we might do in a active shooter situation, even if it never happens, doesn't have to be from fear. > > I have severe allergies and asthma, because of that I carry an Epi Pen and rescue inhaler with me, as precausions. I also had to be in close contact with the nursing and housekeeping staff before and during my time at guide dog training this summer. Pre-planning is something I need to do. It doesn't mean that the need is out of fear, or that I'll just stay at home so I don't take the risk that I may get sick. Btw, because of my planning, I didn't have any major issues while getting my new guide. > > I just wanted to make the point that planning ahead isn't as much about fear as you seem to be making it out to be. Having a plan and never needing to use it is great, being to proud to even consider that making a plan just in case, because you don't want to give the appearance of giving in to the fear mongering in the media just seems like flawed logic. I do agree with you about the media btw. I just figure, it's that same media that teaches us to worry about appearinces and when we worry about what not to do based on the media, as much to go against them, just because they blow things out of proportion, it can be as bad as following what they say without question. > > Dawn > > Dawn Benbow, > Paralegal, > Knitting business: WinterWarmKnits.com and > Benbowknits.com > > >> On Dec 11, 2015, at 4:05 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw wrote: >> >> Keri: >> >> I am well aware of all of the shootings that occur in this country. I am >> just as aware of the government/mass media efforts to use these situations >> to create mass hysteria and an environment of unjustified fear in the minds >> of Americans? And, although it might be fair to suggest that I am obviously >> not concerned with being safe rather than sorry, there is good, sound and >> rational reason for not being so concerned. >> >> As pointed out, I am more likely to be struck by lightning than that I will >> be confronted by an active shooter scenario. We have as many thunderstorms >> in the north Texas area as anywhere in America. Yet, when we are having a >> storm and I need to go to the courthouse, I get my poncho and cain and walk >> to the bus stop to get downtown. And I am never in fear of being struck by >> lightning. Further, all the government/mass media that could be thrown at me >> to create mass hysteria about a thunderstorm would not effect me. >> >> Similarly, I am more likely to be shot by someone I know that I am by an >> active shooter scenario. Yet, I associate with the people I know and never >> fear doing so. And no amount of government/mass media fear mongering could >> dissuade from doing so. >> >> I am more likely to be seriously injured or killed in an automobile accident >> than I am in an active shooter scenario. Yet, I get into cars with others >> every day. And no amount of government/mass media fear mongering could >> dissuade from getting into a car. >> >> I am more likely to be seriously injured in my shower than by an active >> shooter scenario. Yet, I take a shower every day. And no amount of >> government/mass media fear mongering could prevent my taking a shower. >> >> I was in the Tarrant County courthouse in 1993, when a disgruntled lawyer, >> George Lott, entered the courthouse, made his way to a courtroom and shot >> numerous lawyers and judges, killing one of them. I was not afraid to go >> into the courthouse the day before George Lott went on his rampage, and I >> have not been afraid on any day in the 20 years since to go into the >> courthouse. In fact, my mother was a Tarrant County deputy clerk on the day >> of George Lott's rampage and she rode on the elevator with George Lott as >> the courthouse was being evacuated. >> >> So, it isn't exactly correct to say that I have no concern for being safe as >> much as it is that I have nothing to fear. The notion that you are unsafe, >> that you need to be protected from harm or that you should be fearful is an >> illogical concept created not by an active shooter situation, but by the >> mass hysteria created by the government/mass media in the wake of these >> events. If you want to be so concerned for your safety, then I recommend >> that you never go outside during a thunderstorm, that you cease associating >> with your family, friends and acquaintances, that you quit getting into >> automobiles and that you quit taking showers. >> >> Alternatively, you can choose to quit buying into the mass hysteria hype and >> fear mongering stirred by the government/mass media. >> >> Daniel McBride >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri via >> blindlaw >> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 7:34 PM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Keri >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >> >> Daniel, >> >> Are you unaware how many college campuses, and other places have been >> attacked lately? You obviously aren't concerned one bit about being safe >> than sorry. >> >> >>> On 12/10/2015 7:31 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw wrote: >>> Keri: >>> >>> The notion that these shootings are "rapidly" increasing is nonsense. >>> This is a fear tactic created by government and mass media propaganda. >>> Your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are far greater >>> than that you will ever be confronted by an active shooter. Do you >>> have a lightning strike plan? Where is the government and mass media >>> hysteria about lightning? We do not see the media hysteria about >>> lightning because nobody would pay attention. >>> >>> We live in a police state of total surveillance. It is getting worse >>> daily, weekly and monthly. Americans are volunteering themselves into >>> this total surveillance police state and these shootings are most >>> convenient for fear mongering hype and hysteria. And then they have >>> Americans, nationwide, all worked up about safety and security to >>> induce them into accepting the police state. Yet not one of these >>> Americans are the least bit concerned about getting struck by lightning. >>> >>> Furthermore, FBI statistics on violent crime clearly show that, if >>> you, I or any American was to be shot with a firearm, the odds are >>> greater than 80% that it would be by someone we know personally, like >>> a spouse, former spouse or other family member or acquaintance. >>> >>> To be concerned with the danger of being confronted by an active >>> shooter scenario is a big waste of emotional energy. You would be >>> statistically better off expending your emotional energy worrying >>> about being struck by lightning, being shot by a family member or, for >>> that matter, being in a serious auto accident or falling in your >>> shower, all of which are significantly more likely to harm you than >>> being confronted by an active shooter. >>> >>> Daniel McBride >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri >>> via blindlaw >>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:18 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Keri >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>> >>> Might I also point out that shootings are rapidly increasing. For >>> anyone who doesn't think about safety in these situations, they really >> should. >>> It is foolish not to have knowledge or a plan. >>> >>> >>>> On 12/10/2015 5:49 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>> True enough - but before these trainings were the rage, we already >>>> had a >>> potential situation at our courthouse (juvenile), where a person who >>> had just assaulted a street vendor then escaped into our facility and >>> was actively evading security, suspected of being armed. One of our >>> then-pregnant co-workers ended up locked in detention, missing lunch >>> and meds, for several hours due to the lockdown. We don't handle >>> emergencies well as an organization, it seems. Thus, trying to think >> ahead. >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>> Daniel >>> McBride via blindlaw >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 3:45 PM >>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>> Cc: Daniel McBride >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>>> >>>> Dear List: >>>> >>>> I have been following this thread with some interest. I would like to >>> point out that your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are >>> greater than the odds that you will ever be confronted a so-called >>> active shooter. And I never spend one minute of my life with concerns >>> of being struck by lightning. >>>> Daniel McBride >>>> Fort Worth, Texas >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>> Shelley >>> Richards via blindlaw >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:20 AM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Shelley Richards >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>>> >>>> Hiding in the evidence cabinet, I like that idea. I would definitely >>>> fit >>> in one. I think the best advice is to figure out for yourself ahead >>> of time where the best hiding places are, and be sure you know how to >>> get to those places from anywhere in the building you might be. >>>> Have someone help at first if needed until you are confident that you >>>> can >>> get several possible locations on your own from anywhere you might be. >>> I have never been involved in an actual drill because my building has >>> not done them, but I have thought about it before and always figured I >>> just need to have good hiding places in mind which I know I can get to >>> confidently. Of course I also think of places where my dog can hide with >> me as well. >>>> I definitely would think this might be a more difficult situation for >>>> a >>> wheel chair user. I would be interested in talking to some wheel >>> chair users to see what they might think is a good way to deal with >>> this type of situation. >>>> I have to agree that relying on a sighted coworker is not necessarily >>>> a >>> good plan. I personally would not feel confident relying on sighted >>> assistance from anybody in a situation which is almost definitely >>> going to cause panic and chaos. It is also such an unpredictable >>> situation, and nobody really knows how they will handle it until it >>> happens. Definitely not the best time to be counting on someone else >>> who does not even know how they themselves will handle a real life active >> shooter situation. >>>> Shelley Palmadessa >>>> >>>>> On 12/10/15, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>>> Thanks - that has always been my thought and plan. Being small, I >>>>> figure that I can hide in an evidence cabinet in the courtroom if >>>>> nothing else exists. Allegedly, there is a space for wheelchair >>>>> bound persons in the judicial chambers area at court, but...this is >>>>> on the second floor, and is in a mag-card protected restricted area. >>>>> It is thus difficult to figure how that will work in such a >>>>> situation, particularly given that we have only two, very small >> elevators. >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> Ronza Othman via blindlaw >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:10 PM >>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>> Cc: Ronza Othman >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>>>> >>>>> My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared >>>>> towards working with employees with disabilities. So when we get >>>>> the Active Shooter Training, evacuation training, shelter in place >>>>> training, biohazard training, all of it, they do think about and >>>>> talk about how individuals with disabilities can respond. For >>>>> active shooter, the rule is run, hide, fight. >>>>> Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as >>>>> possible (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't >>>>> going to be seen. >>>>> They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to >>>>> run or hide. When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a >>>>> sturdy location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible. >>>>> They suggest you scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a >>>>> couple of options for "safe rooms" like storage rooms. They talk >>>>> about how bathrooms aren't always the best place to hide because the >>>>> doors don't lock. They talk about how folks in wheelchairs, to the >>>>> extent possible, should either find places to hide where their >>>>> chairs are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out of >>>>> their chairs to secure a smaller hiding place. And with regard to >>>>> fight, they say to use whatever you have access to - hands, >>>>> equipment, whatever, >>>> to fight. >>>>> Hope this helps. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> Keri via blindlaw >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Keri >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>>>> >>>>> That seems to be the most common. >>>>> >>>>>> On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>>>> So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker >>>>>> look >>>>> out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>> Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in >>>>>> reading >>>>> re: adaptations etc. suggested. >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Ger >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: >>>>>>> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. >>>>>>> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real >>>>>>> policeman) offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I >>>>>>> don't think there is official methods. My school is willing to >>>>>>> teach for different situations however to students, staff, and >> faculty. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>>>>>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal >>>>>>>> question (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that >>>>>>>> many of us are governmental employees, or at least in larger >>>>>>>> groups, I am hoping there is an answer among us. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple >>>>>>>> of >>>>> years. >>>>>>>> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or >>>>>>>> suggestions for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. >>>>>>>> Has anyone participated in a training that accounts for these >> differences? >>>>>>>> Does any such training even exist? >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40g >>>>>>>> ma >>>>>>>> i >>>>>>>> l >>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Keri >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadli >>>>>>> er >>>>>>> % >>>>>>> 4 >>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%4 >>>>>> 0p >>>>>> i >>>>>> ma.gov >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail. >>>>>> com >>>>> -- >>>>> Keri >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gm >>>>> ai >>>>> l.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 >>>>> pi >>>>> ma.gov >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichard >>>>> s9 >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>> -- >>>> Thank You >>>> Shelley Palmadessa >>>> shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglob >>> al.net >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pi >>> ma.gov >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail >>>> .com >> -- >> Keri >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/d-benbow%40live.com > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail.com -- Keri From dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net Sat Dec 12 01:36:01 2015 From: dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net (Daniel McBride) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 19:36:01 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter planning Message-ID: <01f901d1347d$762297f0$6267c7d0$@sbcglobal.net> Dawn: I appreciate your thoughts. However, there is a major difference between planning for a medical condition that you know you have and planning for an event that statistical odds indicate you will never experience in your lifetime. But, if that is what one wishes to do, fine. People regularly plan on how they are going to spend the proceeds of a lottery that they are never going to win. Also, over the many posts in this thread, it was replete with the underlying motivation and sense of fear. Dan McBride From garysherwig at hotmail.com Sat Dec 12 01:39:38 2015 From: garysherwig at hotmail.com (=?utf-8?B?Z2FyeXNoZXJ3aWdAaG90bWFpbC5jb20=?=) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2015 01:39:38 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter planning Message-ID: Too much! Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone ------ Original message------From: Daniel McBride via blindlawDate: Fri, Dec 11, 2015 8:37 PMTo: Blind Law Mailing List;Cc: Daniel McBride;Subject:[blindlaw] active shooter planning Dawn: I appreciate your thoughts. However, there is a major difference between planning for a medical condition that you know you have and planning for an event that statistical odds indicate you will never experience in your lifetime. But, if that is what one wishes to do, fine. People regularly plan on how they are going to spend the proceeds of a lottery that they are never going to win. Also, over the many posts in this thread, it was replete with the underlying motivation and sense of fear. Dan McBride _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garysherwig%40hotmail.com From rothmanjd at gmail.com Sat Dec 12 14:58:39 2015 From: rothmanjd at gmail.com (Ronza Othman) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2015 09:58:39 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Active Shooter Training Thread - Closing Down Message-ID: <008401d134ed$966db240$c34916c0$@gmail.com> Hi Folks, As one of the list moderators, I'm going to ask that we close down the active shooter training thread. The topic has gone far afield from the original discussion about training, non-visual techniques, and maneuvering around in a courthouse or government building. I'm also going to ask folks to remember that the rules of this listserve require us to be respectful to one another. We can debate ideas, but we should not criticize one another's perspectives and opinions. Thanks, Ronza Othman NABL First Vice President From laura.wolk at gmail.com Sat Dec 12 17:33:23 2015 From: laura.wolk at gmail.com (Laura Wolk) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2015 12:33:23 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] in need of perkins Brailler for a final Message-ID: Hi list, I am taking wills, trusts, and estates this semester. My final is next Friday (so yes, I know this is last minute), but in doing practice exams I'm thinking that it would be very helpful to be able to do the problems using a Perkins braillre so that I can actually read the entire problem all at once instead of listening and doing it in my head. The issue is that mine is not at school with me and I have no way to access it. If anyone has access to one and would not mind lending it to me, please contact me off list. I would, of course, pay for shipping costs. Best, Laura From taiablas at gmail.com Sat Dec 12 17:40:12 2015 From: taiablas at gmail.com (Tai Blas) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2015 11:40:12 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] in need of perkins Brailler for a final In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Glad to mail mine to you. I sent you a message off the list. Tai Tomasi, J.D., M.P.A Email: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors. > On Dec 12, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Laura Wolk via blindlaw wrote: > > Hi list, > > I am taking wills, trusts, and estates this semester. My final is next > Friday (so yes, I know this is last minute), but in doing practice > exams I'm thinking that it would be very helpful to be able to do the > problems using a Perkins braillre so that I can actually read the > entire problem all at once instead of listening and doing it in my > head. The issue is that mine is not at school with me and I have no > way to access it. If anyone has access to one and would not mind > lending it to me, please contact me off list. I would, of course, pay > for shipping costs. > > Best, > > Laura > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Sat Dec 12 19:52:48 2015 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2015 19:52:48 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: <566B6E19.1080008@gmail.com> References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> <012201d132ef$eee0d6a0$cca283e0$@gmail.com> <00d501d1339c$57cc3310$07649930$@sbcglobal.net> <566A081A.7090102@gmail.com> <014d01d133ab$3e6f70d0$bb4e5270$@sbcglobal.net> <566A27FD.3000801@gmail.com> <016301d13457$5a405660$0ec10320$@sbcglobal.net> <566B6E19.1080008@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ronza, With respect, I don't think this topic is inappropriate. Nor do I think that the differing perspectives expressed passed the bounds of appropriate debate or discussion. Kind regards Ger On 12/12/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: > Thank you Dawn. Someone has logic. > > > On 12/11/2015 7:29 PM, Dawn Benbow via blindlaw wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Just a simple question here.. Since when is a little pre planning equal to >> being afraid? When you look at a weather report before going to court, you >> plan ahead to have your rain jacket. That is pre-planning. Thinking ahead >> about what we might do in a active shooter situation, even if it never >> happens, doesn't have to be from fear. >> >> I have severe allergies and asthma, because of that I carry an Epi Pen and >> rescue inhaler with me, as precausions. I also had to be in close contact >> with the nursing and housekeeping staff before and during my time at guide >> dog training this summer. Pre-planning is something I need to do. It >> doesn't mean that the need is out of fear, or that I'll just stay at home >> so I don't take the risk that I may get sick. Btw, because of my planning, >> I didn't have any major issues while getting my new guide. >> >> I just wanted to make the point that planning ahead isn't as much about >> fear as you seem to be making it out to be. Having a plan and never >> needing to use it is great, being to proud to even consider that making a >> plan just in case, because you don't want to give the appearance of giving >> in to the fear mongering in the media just seems like flawed logic. I do >> agree with you about the media btw. I just figure, it's that same media >> that teaches us to worry about appearinces and when we worry about what >> not to do based on the media, as much to go against them, just because >> they blow things out of proportion, it can be as bad as following what >> they say without question. >> >> Dawn >> >> Dawn Benbow, >> Paralegal, >> Knitting business: WinterWarmKnits.com and >> Benbowknits.com >> >> >>> On Dec 11, 2015, at 4:05 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw >>> wrote: >>> >>> Keri: >>> >>> I am well aware of all of the shootings that occur in this country. I am >>> just as aware of the government/mass media efforts to use these >>> situations >>> to create mass hysteria and an environment of unjustified fear in the >>> minds >>> of Americans? And, although it might be fair to suggest that I am >>> obviously >>> not concerned with being safe rather than sorry, there is good, sound >>> and >>> rational reason for not being so concerned. >>> >>> As pointed out, I am more likely to be struck by lightning than that I >>> will >>> be confronted by an active shooter scenario. We have as many >>> thunderstorms >>> in the north Texas area as anywhere in America. Yet, when we are having >>> a >>> storm and I need to go to the courthouse, I get my poncho and cain and >>> walk >>> to the bus stop to get downtown. And I am never in fear of being struck >>> by >>> lightning. Further, all the government/mass media that could be thrown at >>> me >>> to create mass hysteria about a thunderstorm would not effect me. >>> >>> Similarly, I am more likely to be shot by someone I know that I am by an >>> active shooter scenario. Yet, I associate with the people I know and >>> never >>> fear doing so. And no amount of government/mass media fear mongering >>> could >>> dissuade from doing so. >>> >>> I am more likely to be seriously injured or killed in an automobile >>> accident >>> than I am in an active shooter scenario. Yet, I get into cars with >>> others >>> every day. And no amount of government/mass media fear mongering could >>> dissuade from getting into a car. >>> >>> I am more likely to be seriously injured in my shower than by an active >>> shooter scenario. Yet, I take a shower every day. And no amount of >>> government/mass media fear mongering could prevent my taking a shower. >>> >>> I was in the Tarrant County courthouse in 1993, when a disgruntled >>> lawyer, >>> George Lott, entered the courthouse, made his way to a courtroom and >>> shot >>> numerous lawyers and judges, killing one of them. I was not afraid to go >>> into the courthouse the day before George Lott went on his rampage, and >>> I >>> have not been afraid on any day in the 20 years since to go into the >>> courthouse. In fact, my mother was a Tarrant County deputy clerk on the >>> day >>> of George Lott's rampage and she rode on the elevator with George Lott >>> as >>> the courthouse was being evacuated. >>> >>> So, it isn't exactly correct to say that I have no concern for being safe >>> as >>> much as it is that I have nothing to fear. The notion that you are >>> unsafe, >>> that you need to be protected from harm or that you should be fearful is >>> an >>> illogical concept created not by an active shooter situation, but by the >>> mass hysteria created by the government/mass media in the wake of these >>> events. If you want to be so concerned for your safety, then I recommend >>> that you never go outside during a thunderstorm, that you cease >>> associating >>> with your family, friends and acquaintances, that you quit getting into >>> automobiles and that you quit taking showers. >>> >>> Alternatively, you can choose to quit buying into the mass hysteria hype >>> and >>> fear mongering stirred by the government/mass media. >>> >>> Daniel McBride >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri >>> via >>> blindlaw >>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 7:34 PM >>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>> Cc: Keri >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>> >>> Daniel, >>> >>> Are you unaware how many college campuses, and other places have been >>> attacked lately? You obviously aren't concerned one bit about being safe >>> than sorry. >>> >>> >>>> On 12/10/2015 7:31 PM, Daniel McBride via blindlaw wrote: >>>> Keri: >>>> >>>> The notion that these shootings are "rapidly" increasing is nonsense. >>>> This is a fear tactic created by government and mass media propaganda. >>>> Your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are far greater >>>> than that you will ever be confronted by an active shooter. Do you >>>> have a lightning strike plan? Where is the government and mass media >>>> hysteria about lightning? We do not see the media hysteria about >>>> lightning because nobody would pay attention. >>>> >>>> We live in a police state of total surveillance. It is getting worse >>>> daily, weekly and monthly. Americans are volunteering themselves into >>>> this total surveillance police state and these shootings are most >>>> convenient for fear mongering hype and hysteria. And then they have >>>> Americans, nationwide, all worked up about safety and security to >>>> induce them into accepting the police state. Yet not one of these >>>> Americans are the least bit concerned about getting struck by >>>> lightning. >>>> >>>> Furthermore, FBI statistics on violent crime clearly show that, if >>>> you, I or any American was to be shot with a firearm, the odds are >>>> greater than 80% that it would be by someone we know personally, like >>>> a spouse, former spouse or other family member or acquaintance. >>>> >>>> To be concerned with the danger of being confronted by an active >>>> shooter scenario is a big waste of emotional energy. You would be >>>> statistically better off expending your emotional energy worrying >>>> about being struck by lightning, being shot by a family member or, for >>>> that matter, being in a serious auto accident or falling in your >>>> shower, all of which are significantly more likely to harm you than >>>> being confronted by an active shooter. >>>> >>>> Daniel McBride >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri >>>> via blindlaw >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:18 PM >>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Cc: Keri >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>>> >>>> Might I also point out that shootings are rapidly increasing. For >>>> anyone who doesn't think about safety in these situations, they really >>> should. >>>> It is foolish not to have knowledge or a plan. >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 12/10/2015 5:49 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>>> True enough - but before these trainings were the rage, we already >>>>> had a >>>> potential situation at our courthouse (juvenile), where a person who >>>> had just assaulted a street vendor then escaped into our facility and >>>> was actively evading security, suspected of being armed. One of our >>>> then-pregnant co-workers ended up locked in detention, missing lunch >>>> and meds, for several hours due to the lockdown. We don't handle >>>> emergencies well as an organization, it seems. Thus, trying to think >>> ahead. >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> Daniel >>>> McBride via blindlaw >>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 3:45 PM >>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>> Cc: Daniel McBride >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>>>> >>>>> Dear List: >>>>> >>>>> I have been following this thread with some interest. I would like to >>>> point out that your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are >>>> greater than the odds that you will ever be confronted a so-called >>>> active shooter. And I never spend one minute of my life with concerns >>>> of being struck by lightning. >>>>> Daniel McBride >>>>> Fort Worth, Texas >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> Shelley >>>> Richards via blindlaw >>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:20 AM >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Cc: Shelley Richards >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>>>> >>>>> Hiding in the evidence cabinet, I like that idea. I would definitely >>>>> fit >>>> in one. I think the best advice is to figure out for yourself ahead >>>> of time where the best hiding places are, and be sure you know how to >>>> get to those places from anywhere in the building you might be. >>>>> Have someone help at first if needed until you are confident that you >>>>> can >>>> get several possible locations on your own from anywhere you might be. >>>> I have never been involved in an actual drill because my building has >>>> not done them, but I have thought about it before and always figured I >>>> just need to have good hiding places in mind which I know I can get to >>>> confidently. Of course I also think of places where my dog can hide >>>> with >>> me as well. >>>>> I definitely would think this might be a more difficult situation for >>>>> a >>>> wheel chair user. I would be interested in talking to some wheel >>>> chair users to see what they might think is a good way to deal with >>>> this type of situation. >>>>> I have to agree that relying on a sighted coworker is not necessarily >>>>> a >>>> good plan. I personally would not feel confident relying on sighted >>>> assistance from anybody in a situation which is almost definitely >>>> going to cause panic and chaos. It is also such an unpredictable >>>> situation, and nobody really knows how they will handle it until it >>>> happens. Definitely not the best time to be counting on someone else >>>> who does not even know how they themselves will handle a real life >>>> active >>> shooter situation. >>>>> Shelley Palmadessa >>>>> >>>>>> On 12/10/15, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>>>> Thanks - that has always been my thought and plan. Being small, I >>>>>> figure that I can hide in an evidence cabinet in the courtroom if >>>>>> nothing else exists. Allegedly, there is a space for wheelchair >>>>>> bound persons in the judicial chambers area at court, but...this is >>>>>> on the second floor, and is in a mag-card protected restricted area. >>>>>> It is thus difficult to figure how that will work in such a >>>>>> situation, particularly given that we have only two, very small >>> elevators. >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>> Ronza Othman via blindlaw >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:10 PM >>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' >>>>>> Cc: Ronza Othman >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>>>>> >>>>>> My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared >>>>>> towards working with employees with disabilities. So when we get >>>>>> the Active Shooter Training, evacuation training, shelter in place >>>>>> training, biohazard training, all of it, they do think about and >>>>>> talk about how individuals with disabilities can respond. For >>>>>> active shooter, the rule is run, hide, fight. >>>>>> Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as >>>>>> possible (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't >>>>>> going to be seen. >>>>>> They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to >>>>>> run or hide. When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a >>>>>> sturdy location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible. >>>>>> They suggest you scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a >>>>>> couple of options for "safe rooms" like storage rooms. They talk >>>>>> about how bathrooms aren't always the best place to hide because the >>>>>> doors don't lock. They talk about how folks in wheelchairs, to the >>>>>> extent possible, should either find places to hide where their >>>>>> chairs are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out of >>>>>> their chairs to secure a smaller hiding place. And with regard to >>>>>> fight, they say to use whatever you have access to - hands, >>>>>> equipment, whatever, >>>>> to fight. >>>>>> Hope this helps. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>> Keri via blindlaw >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>> Cc: Keri >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>>>>> >>>>>> That seems to be the most common. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>>>>> So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker >>>>>>> look >>>>>> out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>>> Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM >>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List >>>>>>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in >>>>>>> reading >>>>>> re: adaptations etc. suggested. >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ger >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: >>>>>>>> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer >>>>>>>> suggestions. >>>>>>>> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real >>>>>>>> policeman) offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I >>>>>>>> don't think there is official methods. My school is willing to >>>>>>>> teach for different situations however to students, staff, and >>> faculty. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>>>>>>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal >>>>>>>>> question (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that >>>>>>>>> many of us are governmental employees, or at least in larger >>>>>>>>> groups, I am hoping there is an answer among us. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>> years. >>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or >>>>>>>>> suggestions for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. >>>>>>>>> Has anyone participated in a training that accounts for these >>> differences? >>>>>>>>> Does any such training even exist? >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40g >>>>>>>>> ma >>>>>>>>> i >>>>>>>>> l >>>>>>>>> .com >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Keri >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadli >>>>>>>> er >>>>>>>> % >>>>>>>> 4 >>>>>>>> 0gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%4 >>>>>>> 0p >>>>>>> i >>>>>>> ma.gov >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail. >>>>>>> com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Keri >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gm >>>>>> ai >>>>>> l.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 >>>>>> pi >>>>>> ma.gov >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichard >>>>>> s9 >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> -- >>>>> Thank You >>>>> Shelley Palmadessa >>>>> shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglob >>>> al.net >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pi >>>> ma.gov >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail >>>>> .com >>> -- >>> Keri >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/d-benbow%40live.com >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail.com > > -- > Keri > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier%40gmail.com > From anitakeithfoust at gmail.com Tue Dec 15 20:55:16 2015 From: anitakeithfoust at gmail.com (Anita Keith-Foust) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 15:55:16 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? Message-ID: <019701d1377a$e71a3fd0$b54ebf70$@gmail.com> Hello Everyone: Happy winter break! I have been conspicuously absent for a few months. Of course, I am coming back with some questions about digital format law books. Has anyone had any luck with getting the publisher to provide digital copies of books? Or, do I have to look forward to my books being butchered? Please let me know. Thank you. Anita Keith-Foust 919-430-1978 From JLoevy at LATHROPGAGE.COM Tue Dec 15 20:58:22 2015 From: JLoevy at LATHROPGAGE.COM (Loevy, Joshua L. (LG)) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 20:58:22 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? In-Reply-To: <019701d1377a$e71a3fd0$b54ebf70$@gmail.com> References: <019701d1377a$e71a3fd0$b54ebf70$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <85254057485D6342B205D8697056F23EEB603300@LG0022.lathropgage.com> I did have success getting electronic versions from the publisher. They needed a proof of purchase, then they sent the electronic file. The file typically required some reformatting for convenience, I.E. adding headings, text page numbers, etc. They mostly dealt with my school. Hope this helps. Joshua Loevy Associate Lathrop & Gage LLP Pierre Laclede Center, 7701 Forsyth Boulevard, Suite 500 | Clayton, MO 63105 P: 314.613.2518 | F: 314.613.2801 | JLoevy at LATHROPGAGE.COM www.lathropgage.com Please consider the environment before printing this email. This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain material that (1) is confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient, and (2) may be protected by the attorney-client privilege, attorney work product doctrine or other legal rules. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anita Keith-Foust via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 2:55 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Anita Keith-Foust Subject: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? Hello Everyone: Happy winter break! I have been conspicuously absent for a few months. Of course, I am coming back with some questions about digital format law books. Has anyone had any luck with getting the publisher to provide digital copies of books? Or, do I have to look forward to my books being butchered? Please let me know. Thank you. Anita Keith-Foust 919-430-1978 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nfbnet.org_mailman_listinfo_blindlaw-5Fnfbnet.org&d=CwICAg&c=zq7Mynb997iZeC8XoLQcB11VjdO25CZYDUZ0f4PEEy0&r=p9cYR0ZTBfQo0Swz42TqgfoJjkrzfDIGBdNtLahdAqM&m=5UzaF7TwsFrcOQr5QXbmWKn8l1FtvDeqynwL2hqZ7L4&s=jqS6l84KfACcX1lCByZ-YfsIuYtpliSEeIxTVNboUtw&e= To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nfbnet.org_mailman_options_blindlaw-5Fnfbnet.org_jloevy-2540lathropgage.com&d=CwICAg&c=zq7Mynb997iZeC8XoLQcB11VjdO25CZYDUZ0f4PEEy0&r=p9cYR0ZTBfQo0Swz42TqgfoJjkrzfDIGBdNtLahdAqM&m=5UzaF7TwsFrcOQr5QXbmWKn8l1FtvDeqynwL2hqZ7L4&s=2mavCkInU_FYXDzjAZOuimk9WuatBLe2C_AULJ8bZqk&e= From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu Tue Dec 15 21:04:31 2015 From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 16:04:31 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? In-Reply-To: <85254057485D6342B205D8697056F23EEB603300@LG0022.lathropgage.com> References: <019701d1377a$e71a3fd0$b54ebf70$@gmail.com> <85254057485D6342B205D8697056F23EEB603300@LG0022.lathropgage.com> Message-ID: Same here. My school also provided a reimbursement between the new and used price to make up for the fact I had to buy new which is technically against the ADA without the reimbursement. At least that's what they've said. Definitely not the ADA expert but it sounds right to me. One thing to watch out for is if a class isn't a normal law class, they may have independent books, books only available online, or just poorly done scans from articles and books. This has happened a number of times and has required me to drop a class or two and or wait a while for my reading materials. Best regards Derek Manners Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 15, 2015, at 3:58 PM, Loevy, Joshua L. (LG) via blindlaw wrote: > > I did have success getting electronic versions from the publisher. They needed a proof of purchase, then they sent the electronic file. The file typically required some reformatting for convenience, I.E. adding headings, text page numbers, etc. > They mostly dealt with my school. > Hope this helps. > > > Joshua Loevy > Associate > Lathrop & Gage LLP > Pierre Laclede Center, 7701 Forsyth Boulevard, Suite 500 | Clayton, MO 63105 > P: 314.613.2518 | F: 314.613.2801 | JLoevy at LATHROPGAGE.COM > www.lathropgage.com > > Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain material that (1) is confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient, and (2) may be protected by the attorney-client privilege, attorney work product doctrine or other legal rules. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anita Keith-Foust via blindlaw > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 2:55 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: Anita Keith-Foust > Subject: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? > > Hello Everyone: > > > > Happy winter break! > > > > I have been conspicuously absent for a few months. Of course, I am coming > back with some questions about digital format law books. > > > > Has anyone had any luck with getting the publisher to provide digital copies > of books? Or, do I have to look forward to my books being butchered? > > > > Please let me know. > > > > Thank you. > > > > Anita Keith-Foust > > 919-430-1978 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nfbnet.org_mailman_listinfo_blindlaw-5Fnfbnet.org&d=CwICAg&c=zq7Mynb997iZeC8XoLQcB11VjdO25CZYDUZ0f4PEEy0&r=p9cYR0ZTBfQo0Swz42TqgfoJjkrzfDIGBdNtLahdAqM&m=5UzaF7TwsFrcOQr5QXbmWKn8l1FtvDeqynwL2hqZ7L4&s=jqS6l84KfACcX1lCByZ-YfsIuYtpliSEeIxTVNboUtw&e= > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nfbnet.org_mailman_options_blindlaw-5Fnfbnet.org_jloevy-2540lathropgage.com&d=CwICAg&c=zq7Mynb997iZeC8XoLQcB11VjdO25CZYDUZ0f4PEEy0&r=p9cYR0ZTBfQo0Swz42TqgfoJjkrzfDIGBdNtLahdAqM&m=5UzaF7TwsFrcOQr5QXbmWKn8l1FtvDeqynwL2hqZ7L4&s=2mavCkInU_FYXDzjAZOuimk9WuatBLe2C_AULJ8bZqk&e= > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu From Don.Padou at yahoo.com Tue Dec 15 21:14:57 2015 From: Don.Padou at yahoo.com (Don Padou) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:14:57 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? In-Reply-To: <019701d1377a$e71a3fd0$b54ebf70$@gmail.com> References: <019701d1377a$e71a3fd0$b54ebf70$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <567082D1.6050107@yahoo.com> Hi Anita; When I was in law school the Dean of Students also served as a sort of coordinator for providing accommodations under the ADA.Every semester I told her the classes that I was taking and the books that I needed.She wrote to the publishers and the publishers provided PDF format books. Sometimes the books came as one flarge ile and sometimes there was a separate file for each chapter.Sometimes the PDF was emailed to me and sometimes I received a CD.It depended on the length of the book. Only one publisher ever gave us grief: North Carolina Academic Press.I was never able to get an electronic version of my contracts book and had to use a scanned version. The Dean required me to show a receipt demonstrating that I actually bought the books.The ADA does not require the publishers to give you free books.I sold the hard copy books to a sighted class mate each semester. There is a problem to be aware of.It can take several weeks for the publisher to provide the PDF books.You are best served by getting your request in early.Sometimes that means that you have to pester the professor to tell you what books you need. If your law school doesn't do a good job of providing you with PDF books in a timely manner then don't waste time.Pressure them quickly.You are in law school for a short period of time and it will affect your career.You cannot afford to fall behind in a class because you don't receive a book until two months into the semester. In other words, don't hesitate to get an ADA lawyer. Good luck, Don Padou On 12/15/2015 12:55 PM, Anita Keith-Foust via blindlaw wrote: > > > I have been conspicuously absent for a few months. Of course, I am coming > back with some questions about digital format law books. > > > > Has anyone had any luck with getting the publisher to provide digital copies > of books? Or, do I have to look forward to my books being butchered? > > > > Please let me know. > > > > Thank you. > > > > Anita Keith-Foust > > 919-430-1978 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or From dbeitz at wiennergould.com Tue Dec 15 21:23:53 2015 From: dbeitz at wiennergould.com (Dan Beitz) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 21:23:53 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? In-Reply-To: <567082D1.6050107@yahoo.com> References: <019701d1377a$e71a3fd0$b54ebf70$@gmail.com> <567082D1.6050107@yahoo.com> Message-ID: How about a little perspective? I went to law school in the late 80s and early 90s. My books were always on tape. They read the footnotes right in with the text. I did eventually purchase a scanner and software, but it was slow, had all kinds of trouble with some of the books, and was really primitive compared to what is out there today. Westlaw was not accessible on the law school computers, and I had to use taped notes for my open-book tests. When I took the bar, It was read to me, and the reader had to be someone that I had to pay and someone with no legal experience. So what I'm saying is that things have come a long way. Daniel K. Beitz Wienner & Gould, P.C. 950 University Dr., Ste. 350 Rochester, MI 48307 Phone: (248) 841-9405 Fax: (248) 652-2729 dbeitz at wiennergould.com www.wiennergould.com This email transmission and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the individual responsible for delivering this email to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution or use of any of the information contained herein or attached to this email is strictly prohibited. Should you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this email or by telephoning us at (248) 841-9400. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Don Padou via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 4:15 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Don Padou Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? Hi Anita; When I was in law school the Dean of Students also served as a sort of coordinator for providing accommodations under the ADA.Every semester I told her the classes that I was taking and the books that I needed.She wrote to the publishers and the publishers provided PDF format books. Sometimes the books came as one flarge ile and sometimes there was a separate file for each chapter.Sometimes the PDF was emailed to me and sometimes I received a CD.It depended on the length of the book. Only one publisher ever gave us grief: North Carolina Academic Press.I was never able to get an electronic version of my contracts book and had to use a scanned version. The Dean required me to show a receipt demonstrating that I actually bought the books.The ADA does not require the publishers to give you free books.I sold the hard copy books to a sighted class mate each semester. There is a problem to be aware of.It can take several weeks for the publisher to provide the PDF books.You are best served by getting your request in early.Sometimes that means that you have to pester the professor to tell you what books you need. If your law school doesn't do a good job of providing you with PDF books in a timely manner then don't waste time.Pressure them quickly.You are in law school for a short period of time and it will affect your career.You cannot afford to fall behind in a class because you don't receive a book until two months into the semester. In other words, don't hesitate to get an ADA lawyer. Good luck, Don Padou On 12/15/2015 12:55 PM, Anita Keith-Foust via blindlaw wrote: > > > I have been conspicuously absent for a few months. Of course, I am > coming back with some questions about digital format law books. > > > > Has anyone had any luck with getting the publisher to provide digital > copies of books? Or, do I have to look forward to my books being butchered? > > > > Please let me know. > > > > Thank you. > > > > Anita Keith-Foust > > 919-430-1978 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dbeitz%40wiennergould.com From sy.hoekstra at gmail.com Tue Dec 15 21:49:02 2015 From: sy.hoekstra at gmail.com (Sybren Hoekstra) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 16:49:02 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? In-Reply-To: <019701d1377a$e71a3fd0$b54ebf70$@gmail.com> References: <019701d1377a$e71a3fd0$b54ebf70$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1D9819F8-DE22-430E-A0E8-F65D1DC21119@gmail.com> I had no issues getting accessible electronic standard law textbooks through the publishers, so long ass my school was requesting them for me after I provided proof of purchase. In fact, I found law book publishers to be far more responsive than the average book publisher was when I was an undergrad. Derek is right though, there will be all the issues that usually come with acquiring accessible readings in the classes that aren't standard doctrinal classes. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 15, 2015, at 15:55, Anita Keith-Foust via blindlaw wrote: > > Hello Everyone: > > > > Happy winter break! > > > > I have been conspicuously absent for a few months. Of course, I am coming > back with some questions about digital format law books. > > > > Has anyone had any luck with getting the publisher to provide digital copies > of books? Or, do I have to look forward to my books being butchered? > > > > Please let me know. > > > > Thank you. > > > > Anita Keith-Foust > > 919-430-1978 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sy.hoekstra%40gmail.com From lmendez716 at gmail.com Wed Dec 16 01:07:11 2015 From: lmendez716 at gmail.com (luis Mendez) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 20:07:11 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? In-Reply-To: <1D9819F8-DE22-430E-A0E8-F65D1DC21119@gmail.com> References: <019701d1377a$e71a3fd0$b54ebf70$@gmail.com> <1D9819F8-DE22-430E-A0E8-F65D1DC21119@gmail.com> Message-ID: For a screen reader reliant student or practitioner a high quality scanner and OCR software is still indispensable. One always has to have at least one backup plan. Access to good readers is also still a necessity. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 15, 2015, at 4:49 PM, Sybren Hoekstra via blindlaw wrote: > > I had no issues getting accessible electronic standard law textbooks through the publishers, so long ass my school was requesting them for me after I provided proof of purchase. In fact, I found law book publishers to be far more responsive than the average book publisher was when I was an undergrad. Derek is right though, there will be all the issues that usually come with acquiring accessible readings in the classes that aren't standard doctrinal classes. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 15, 2015, at 15:55, Anita Keith-Foust via blindlaw wrote: >> >> Hello Everyone: >> >> >> >> Happy winter break! >> >> >> >> I have been conspicuously absent for a few months. Of course, I am coming >> back with some questions about digital format law books. >> >> >> >> Has anyone had any luck with getting the publisher to provide digital copies >> of books? Or, do I have to look forward to my books being butchered? >> >> >> >> Please let me know. >> >> >> >> Thank you. >> >> >> >> Anita Keith-Foust >> >> 919-430-1978 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sy.hoekstra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lmendez716%40gmail.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Dec 16 18:43:34 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 18:43:34 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Law intern - FW: Attorney Vacancies Update Message-ID: Law intern opportunity with DOJ From: U.S. Department of Justice [mailto:usdoj at public.govdelivery.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 10:19 AM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: Attorney Vacancies Update [Image removed by sender. U.S. Department of Justice] You are subscribed to Attorney Vacancies for U.S. Department of Justice. This page has recently been updated with the following new information: Law Student Volunteer, Summer 12/16/2015 10:38 AM EST Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) Phoenix, Tucson, Eloy, Florence (AZ) Phoenix, AZ Intern Responsibilities Typical assignments include: legal research, drafting Immigration Court decisions, and writing bench memoranda on specific legal issues. Every assignment will require a law intern to research and apply the applicable statutes, regulations, and judicial decisions to the facts of an ongoing case. Interns work under the supervision of a Department of Justice attorney to support the Immigration Judges at the respective Immigration Courts. Law interns work 40 hours per week during the summer. Interns will also have the opportunity to work directly with Immigration Judges, observe Immigration Court proceedings, and tour a point of entry into the United States. ________________________________ [Image removed by sender. Instagram icon] | [Image removed by sender. FaceBook icon] | [Image removed by sender. YouTube icon] | [Image removed by sender. Twitter icon] AG Twitter feed | [Image removed by sender. Twitter icon] DOJ Twitter feed ________________________________ You have received this e-mail because you have asked to be notified of changes to the U.S. Department of Justice website. GovDelivery is providing this service on behalf of the Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Ave., NW * Washington, DC 20530 * 202-514-2000 and may not use your subscription information for any other purposes. Manage your Subscriptions | Department of Justice Privacy Policy | GovDelivery Privacy Policy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 930 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 335 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: From gerard.sadlier at gmail.com Wed Dec 16 19:50:21 2015 From: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com (Gerard Sadlier) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 19:50:21 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Most Worthwhile Legal Jobs? Message-ID: Hey all, Here's a question - what do you think the most worthwhile legal jobs are? Not necessarily referring to most financially rewarding - though obviously that's one thing to consider? Thoughts on this welcome Ger From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Wed Dec 16 19:55:26 2015 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 19:55:26 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Most Worthwhile Legal Jobs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As a public defender for kids, especially those who are of immigrant and Native American families, I get to see them hopefully getting their lives together and having a future. They are so often ignored / overlooked in the school system, and their parents are not aware of the resources that are available to assist in terms of health and education., that it is just as much our jobs to educate them on those issues as the delinquency matters. Doesn't pay well and we are extremely understaffed, but still rewarding... -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 12:50 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Gerard Sadlier Subject: [blindlaw] Most Worthwhile Legal Jobs? Hey all, Here's a question - what do you think the most worthwhile legal jobs are? Not necessarily referring to most financially rewarding - though obviously that's one thing to consider? Thoughts on this welcome Ger _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov From garysherwig at hotmail.com Wed Dec 16 19:56:54 2015 From: garysherwig at hotmail.com (Gary Herwig) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 14:56:54 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Most Worthwhile Legal Jobs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Legal Aid Bureau / Public-interest law > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 19:50:21 +0000 > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] Most Worthwhile Legal Jobs? > From: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > CC: gerard.sadlier at gmail.com > > Hey all, > > Here's a question - what do you think the most worthwhile legal jobs > are? Not necessarily referring to most financially rewarding - though > obviously that's one thing to consider? > > Thoughts on this welcome > > Ger > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/garysherwig%40hotmail.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Dec 16 21:37:51 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 21:37:51 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? In-Reply-To: <567082D1.6050107@yahoo.com> References: <019701d1377a$e71a3fd0$b54ebf70$@gmail.com> <567082D1.6050107@yahoo.com> Message-ID: One can also file a complaint with the Office for Civil Rights of the U.S. Department of Education if being denied access to a university's programs and activities. The complaint can be filed on-line at www.ed.gov/ocr. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Don Padou via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 1:15 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: Don Padou Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? Hi Anita; When I was in law school the Dean of Students also served as a sort of coordinator for providing accommodations under the ADA.Every semester I told her the classes that I was taking and the books that I needed.She wrote to the publishers and the publishers provided PDF format books. Sometimes the books came as one flarge ile and sometimes there was a separate file for each chapter.Sometimes the PDF was emailed to me and sometimes I received a CD.It depended on the length of the book. Only one publisher ever gave us grief: North Carolina Academic Press.I was never able to get an electronic version of my contracts book and had to use a scanned version. The Dean required me to show a receipt demonstrating that I actually bought the books.The ADA does not require the publishers to give you free books.I sold the hard copy books to a sighted class mate each semester. There is a problem to be aware of.It can take several weeks for the publisher to provide the PDF books.You are best served by getting your request in early.Sometimes that means that you have to pester the professor to tell you what books you need. If your law school doesn't do a good job of providing you with PDF books in a timely manner then don't waste time.Pressure them quickly.You are in law school for a short period of time and it will affect your career.You cannot afford to fall behind in a class because you don't receive a book until two months into the semester. In other words, don't hesitate to get an ADA lawyer. Good luck, Don Padou On 12/15/2015 12:55 PM, Anita Keith-Foust via blindlaw wrote: > > > I have been conspicuously absent for a few months. Of course, I am coming > back with some questions about digital format law books. > > > > Has anyone had any luck with getting the publisher to provide digital copies > of books? Or, do I have to look forward to my books being butchered? > > > > Please let me know. > > > > Thank you. > > > > Anita Keith-Foust > > 919-430-1978 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From Don.Padou at yahoo.com Thu Dec 17 00:21:25 2015 From: Don.Padou at yahoo.com (Don Padou) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 16:21:25 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Sample Complaint RICO & Due Process Message-ID: <56720005.3030201@yahoo.com> Colleagues; I am about it fileto complaint including causes of action arising under Civil RICO (bribery is the predicate) and 5^th Amendment due process (both procedural and substantive). Does any one have a complaint arising under either of the above causes that they are willing to share?I am particularly looking for persuasive language rather than a bland pleading based on the elements. Thanks, Don From shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com Thu Dec 17 15:03:39 2015 From: shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com (Shelley Richards) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 10:03:39 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? In-Reply-To: References: <019701d1377a$e71a3fd0$b54ebf70$@gmail.com> <567082D1.6050107@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I never had any trouble with getting my books from the publishers. I almost always got the books before the class actually started as well. My school required professors to let the book store know 4 weeks before the semester started which books they would be using, and I found that I had plenty of time to get the books with just waiting until the required text lists were available from the book store. It probably helped though that the person in charge of ADA accomidations at my law school had direct communications with the specific people from each publisher of law texts who would actually be providing the PDF copies. I never had a problem with poore copies either. I certainly think they could have been done better for easier navigation, but the quality of the text was nearly perfect every time. I would usually run the PDF files through an OCR, Kurzweil in my case, and also put them onto my victor streem so that I had several options in the end for accessing and reading the materials no matter where I was. Having them on my stream and about half way through law school, also on my phone in Ibooks allowed me to even read on the subway just like many other classmates. I found the page numbering in the PDF files matched the numbering in the print books, so I never had major trouble figuring out where the correct pages or chapters were. I would still definitely consider using an OCR program, and looking into how to read PDF files on your phone. I believe the navigation in the original PDF was always more difficult than when I used Kurzweil or Ibooks, or my stream to read. I still used my scanner often to scan materials outside of the text book, but my professors were also very good about emailing clean copies of everything to me as well. I did make sure to open a line of communication with all my professors at the start of each semester, and I believe this really helped me when it came to accessing other materials outside of the text. I rarely, if ever, used a reader because it is just not a method I have ever particularly liked, but I did make sure I had that option available if necessary. My school was also very willing to scan anything for me anytime I needed it. When I had a 200 page book which my professor had written, but which had not yet been published, they scanned the entire thing for me, and emailed the files to me. Your school is the one who is supposed to send in the request for the books in electronic format, so you should talk to them ahead of time to see what experience they have in getting books from publishers, and how long it usually takes them to get the book from each publisher. On 12/16/15, Nightingale, Noel via blindlaw wrote: > One can also file a complaint with the Office for Civil Rights of the U.S. > Department of Education if being denied access to a university's programs > and activities. The complaint can be filed on-line at www.ed.gov/ocr. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Don Padou > via blindlaw > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 1:15 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: Don Padou > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? > > Hi Anita; > > When I was in law school the Dean of Students also served as a sort of > coordinator for providing accommodations under the ADA.Every semester I > told her the classes that I was taking and the books that I needed.She > wrote to the publishers and the publishers provided PDF format books. > > Sometimes the books came as one flarge ile and sometimes there was a > separate file for each chapter.Sometimes the PDF was emailed to me and > sometimes I received a CD.It depended on the length of the book. > > Only one publisher ever gave us grief: North Carolina Academic Press.I > was never able to get an electronic version of my contracts book and had > to use a scanned version. > > The Dean required me to show a receipt demonstrating that I actually > bought the books.The ADA does not require the publishers to give you > free books.I sold the hard copy books to a sighted class mate each > semester. > > There is a problem to be aware of.It can take several weeks for the > publisher to provide the PDF books.You are best served by getting your > request in early.Sometimes that means that you have to pester the > professor to tell you what books you need. > > If your law school doesn't do a good job of providing you with PDF books > in a timely manner then don't waste time.Pressure them quickly.You are > in law school for a short period of time and it will affect your > career.You cannot afford to fall behind in a class because you don't > receive a book until two months into the semester. > > In other words, don't hesitate to get an ADA lawyer. > > Good luck, > > Don Padou > > > > On 12/15/2015 12:55 PM, Anita Keith-Foust via blindlaw wrote: >> >> >> I have been conspicuously absent for a few months. Of course, I am coming >> back with some questions about digital format law books. >> >> >> >> Has anyone had any luck with getting the publisher to provide digital >> copies >> of books? Or, do I have to look forward to my books being butchered? >> >> >> >> Please let me know. >> >> >> >> Thank you. >> >> >> >> Anita Keith-Foust >> >> 919-430-1978 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards9%40gmail.com > -- Thank You Shelley Palmadessa shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com From jmccarthy at mdtap.org Thu Dec 17 16:06:42 2015 From: jmccarthy at mdtap.org (Jim McCarthy) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 11:06:42 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? In-Reply-To: References: <019701d1377a$e71a3fd0$b54ebf70$@gmail.com> <567082D1.6050107@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <013e01d138e4$ebce9ba0$c36bd2e0$@mdtap.org> I did book procurement in Maryland and much of that for law students. It was my experience that legal publishers were sticklers for procedure, but if one complied, she received what she requested. Most of the commonly used legal publishers had a point of contact for accessibility requests and one develops a pretty good relationship with that person in time. In my experience, Shelley's email is largely a best practices about how this process should be accomplished. Will publishers deal with students directly? Shelley relied on her school with good success but some students may want to maintain the process themselves. Whenever talking to students about getting books, I always think that no one cares more about that process working than does the student herself; I mean there may be legal obligations on schools DSS staff and the like and maybe publishers to but it is the grades of performance of the student, not any of these other entities. One can try with them and finding the access contact person is easy enough. I think it is more in powering for students to do this themselves but the process will not always permit it. The key is to have the receipt and provide that. Law book publishers more than anyone else in my experience are insistent on that. For those thinking of law school and seeking good resources/advice, I do think Shelley's email is worth keeping. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shelley Richards via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 10:04 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Shelley Richards Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? I never had any trouble with getting my books from the publishers. I almost always got the books before the class actually started as well. My school required professors to let the book store know 4 weeks before the semester started which books they would be using, and I found that I had plenty of time to get the books with just waiting until the required text lists were available from the book store. It probably helped though that the person in charge of ADA accomidations at my law school had direct communications with the specific people from each publisher of law texts who would actually be providing the PDF copies. I never had a problem with poore copies either. I certainly think they could have been done better for easier navigation, but the quality of the text was nearly perfect every time. I would usually run the PDF files through an OCR, Kurzweil in my case, and also put them onto my victor streem so that I had several options in the end for accessing and reading the materials no matter where I was. Having them on my stream and about half way through law school, also on my phone in Ibooks allowed me to even read on the subway just like many other classmates. I found the page numbering in the PDF files matched the numbering in the print books, so I never had major trouble figuring out where the correct pages or chapters were. I would still definitely consider using an OCR program, and looking into how to read PDF files on your phone. I believe the navigation in the original PDF was always more difficult than when I used Kurzweil or Ibooks, or my stream to read. I still used my scanner often to scan materials outside of the text book, but my professors were also very good about emailing clean copies of everything to me as well. I did make sure to open a line of communication with all my professors at the start of each semester, and I believe this really helped me when it came to accessing other materials outside of the text. I rarely, if ever, used a reader because it is just not a method I have ever particularly liked, but I did make sure I had that option available if necessary. My school was also very willing to scan anything for me anytime I needed it. When I had a 200 page book which my professor had written, but which had not yet been published, they scanned the entire thing for me, and emailed the files to me. Your school is the one who is supposed to send in the request for the books in electronic format, so you should talk to them ahead of time to see what experience they have in getting books from publishers, and how long it usually takes them to get the book from each publisher. On 12/16/15, Nightingale, Noel via blindlaw wrote: > One can also file a complaint with the Office for Civil Rights of the U.S. > Department of Education if being denied access to a university's > programs and activities. The complaint can be filed on-line at www.ed.gov/ocr. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Don > Padou via blindlaw > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 1:15 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: Don Padou > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? > > Hi Anita; > > When I was in law school the Dean of Students also served as a sort of > coordinator for providing accommodations under the ADA.Every semester > I told her the classes that I was taking and the books that I > needed.She wrote to the publishers and the publishers provided PDF format books. > > Sometimes the books came as one flarge ile and sometimes there was a > separate file for each chapter.Sometimes the PDF was emailed to me and > sometimes I received a CD.It depended on the length of the book. > > Only one publisher ever gave us grief: North Carolina Academic Press.I > was never able to get an electronic version of my contracts book and > had to use a scanned version. > > The Dean required me to show a receipt demonstrating that I actually > bought the books.The ADA does not require the publishers to give you > free books.I sold the hard copy books to a sighted class mate each > semester. > > There is a problem to be aware of.It can take several weeks for the > publisher to provide the PDF books.You are best served by getting your > request in early.Sometimes that means that you have to pester the > professor to tell you what books you need. > > If your law school doesn't do a good job of providing you with PDF > books in a timely manner then don't waste time.Pressure them > quickly.You are in law school for a short period of time and it will > affect your career.You cannot afford to fall behind in a class because > you don't receive a book until two months into the semester. > > In other words, don't hesitate to get an ADA lawyer. > > Good luck, > > Don Padou > > > > On 12/15/2015 12:55 PM, Anita Keith-Foust via blindlaw wrote: >> >> >> I have been conspicuously absent for a few months. Of course, I am >> coming back with some questions about digital format law books. >> >> >> >> Has anyone had any luck with getting the publisher to provide digital >> copies of books? Or, do I have to look forward to my books being >> butchered? >> >> >> >> Please let me know. >> >> >> >> Thank you. >> >> >> >> Anita Keith-Foust >> >> 919-430-1978 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale > %40ed.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards9 > %40gmail.com > -- Thank You Shelley Palmadessa shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org From shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com Thu Dec 17 17:45:24 2015 From: shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com (Shelley Richards) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 12:45:24 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? In-Reply-To: <013e01d138e4$ebce9ba0$c36bd2e0$@mdtap.org> References: <019701d1377a$e71a3fd0$b54ebf70$@gmail.com> <567082D1.6050107@yahoo.com> <013e01d138e4$ebce9ba0$c36bd2e0$@mdtap.org> Message-ID: I had tried a few times to get the books myself, but to often ran into the problem of the publisher wanting the request to come directly from the school since they are only required to provide electronic texts for print impaired students who need them for school. Of course law school is generally dealing with a much smaller number of publishers, so maybe this is not the case overall and just a big thing with publishers of law texts. On 12/17/15, Jim McCarthy via blindlaw wrote: > I did book procurement in Maryland and much of that for law students. It > was > my experience that legal publishers were sticklers for procedure, but if > one > complied, she received what she requested. Most of the commonly used legal > publishers had a point of contact for accessibility requests and one > develops a pretty good relationship with that person in time. > > In my experience, Shelley's email is largely a best practices about how > this > process should be accomplished. Will publishers deal with students > directly? > Shelley relied on her school with good success but some students may want > to > maintain the process themselves. Whenever talking to students about getting > books, I always think that no one cares more about that process working > than > does the student herself; I mean there may be legal obligations on schools > DSS staff and the like and maybe publishers to but it is the grades of > performance of the student, not any of these other entities. One can try > with them and finding the access contact person is easy enough. I think it > is more in powering for students to do this themselves but the process will > not always permit it. The key is to have the receipt and provide that. Law > book publishers more than anyone else in my experience are insistent on > that. For those thinking of law school and seeking good resources/advice, I > do think Shelley's email is worth keeping. > Jim McCarthy > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shelley > Richards via blindlaw > Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 10:04 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Shelley Richards > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? > > I never had any trouble with getting my books from the publishers. I > almost > always got the books before the class actually started as well. > My school required professors to let the book store know 4 weeks before the > semester started which books they would be using, and I found that I had > plenty of time to get the books with just waiting until the required text > lists were available from the book store. It probably helped though that > the person in charge of ADA accomidations at my law school had direct > communications with the specific people from each publisher of law texts > who > would actually be providing the PDF copies. I never had a problem with > poore copies either. I certainly think they could have been done better > for > easier navigation, but the quality of the text was nearly perfect every > time. > I would usually run the PDF files through an OCR, Kurzweil in my case, and > also put them onto my victor streem so that I had several options in the > end > for accessing and reading the materials no matter where I was. Having them > on my stream and about half way through law school, also on my phone in > Ibooks allowed me to even read on the subway just like many other > classmates. I found the page numbering in the PDF files matched the > numbering in the print books, so I never had major trouble figuring out > where the correct pages or chapters were. I would still definitely > consider > using an OCR program, and looking into how to read PDF files on your phone. > I believe the navigation in the original PDF was always more difficult than > when I used Kurzweil or Ibooks, or my stream to read. > I still used my scanner often to scan materials outside of the text book, > but my professors were also very good about emailing clean copies of > everything to me as well. I did make sure to open a line of communication > with all my professors at the start of each semester, and I believe this > really helped me when it came to accessing other materials outside of the > text. I rarely, if ever, used a reader because it is just not a method I > have ever particularly liked, but I did make sure I had that option > available if necessary. My school was also very willing to scan anything > for me anytime I needed it. When I had a 200 page book which my professor > had written, but which had not yet been published, they scanned the entire > thing for me, and emailed the files to me. > Your school is the one who is supposed to send in the request for the books > in electronic format, so you should talk to them ahead of time to see what > experience they have in getting books from publishers, and how long it > usually takes them to get the book from each publisher. > > On 12/16/15, Nightingale, Noel via blindlaw wrote: >> One can also file a complaint with the Office for Civil Rights of the >> U.S. >> Department of Education if being denied access to a university's >> programs and activities. The complaint can be filed on-line at > www.ed.gov/ocr. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Don >> Padou via blindlaw >> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 1:15 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: Don Padou >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? >> >> Hi Anita; >> >> When I was in law school the Dean of Students also served as a sort of >> coordinator for providing accommodations under the ADA.Every semester >> I told her the classes that I was taking and the books that I >> needed.She wrote to the publishers and the publishers provided PDF format > books. >> >> Sometimes the books came as one flarge ile and sometimes there was a >> separate file for each chapter.Sometimes the PDF was emailed to me and >> sometimes I received a CD.It depended on the length of the book. >> >> Only one publisher ever gave us grief: North Carolina Academic Press.I >> was never able to get an electronic version of my contracts book and >> had to use a scanned version. >> >> The Dean required me to show a receipt demonstrating that I actually >> bought the books.The ADA does not require the publishers to give you >> free books.I sold the hard copy books to a sighted class mate each >> semester. >> >> There is a problem to be aware of.It can take several weeks for the >> publisher to provide the PDF books.You are best served by getting your >> request in early.Sometimes that means that you have to pester the >> professor to tell you what books you need. >> >> If your law school doesn't do a good job of providing you with PDF >> books in a timely manner then don't waste time.Pressure them >> quickly.You are in law school for a short period of time and it will >> affect your career.You cannot afford to fall behind in a class because >> you don't receive a book until two months into the semester. >> >> In other words, don't hesitate to get an ADA lawyer. >> >> Good luck, >> >> Don Padou >> >> >> >> On 12/15/2015 12:55 PM, Anita Keith-Foust via blindlaw wrote: >>> >>> >>> I have been conspicuously absent for a few months. Of course, I am >>> coming back with some questions about digital format law books. >>> >>> >>> >>> Has anyone had any luck with getting the publisher to provide digital >>> copies of books? Or, do I have to look forward to my books being >>> butchered? >>> >>> >>> >>> Please let me know. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> >>> >>> Anita Keith-Foust >>> >>> 919-430-1978 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale >> %40ed.gov >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards9 >> %40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Thank You > Shelley Palmadessa > shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards9%40gmail.com > -- Thank You Shelley Palmadessa shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com From sy.hoekstra at gmail.com Thu Dec 17 18:25:54 2015 From: sy.hoekstra at gmail.com (Sybren Hoekstra) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 13:25:54 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? In-Reply-To: References: <019701d1377a$e71a3fd0$b54ebf70$@gmail.com> <567082D1.6050107@yahoo.com> <013e01d138e4$ebce9ba0$c36bd2e0$@mdtap.org> Message-ID: <65C8FEA4-B600-4C1F-BA1F-8419CFBC3312@gmail.com> Is your school requiring you to request the books yourself? If so, that is quite problematic. If not, you should have them send the requests. From my experience, requesting alternative format books is a standard service of a disability services office. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 17, 2015, at 12:45, Shelley Richards via blindlaw wrote: > > I had tried a few times to get the books myself, but to often ran into > the problem of the publisher wanting the request to come directly from > the school since they are only required to provide electronic texts > for print impaired students who need them for school. Of course law > school is generally dealing with a much smaller number of publishers, > so maybe this is not the case overall and just a big thing with > publishers of law texts. > >> On 12/17/15, Jim McCarthy via blindlaw wrote: >> I did book procurement in Maryland and much of that for law students. It >> was >> my experience that legal publishers were sticklers for procedure, but if >> one >> complied, she received what she requested. Most of the commonly used legal >> publishers had a point of contact for accessibility requests and one >> develops a pretty good relationship with that person in time. >> >> In my experience, Shelley's email is largely a best practices about how >> this >> process should be accomplished. Will publishers deal with students >> directly? >> Shelley relied on her school with good success but some students may want >> to >> maintain the process themselves. Whenever talking to students about getting >> books, I always think that no one cares more about that process working >> than >> does the student herself; I mean there may be legal obligations on schools >> DSS staff and the like and maybe publishers to but it is the grades of >> performance of the student, not any of these other entities. One can try >> with them and finding the access contact person is easy enough. I think it >> is more in powering for students to do this themselves but the process will >> not always permit it. The key is to have the receipt and provide that. Law >> book publishers more than anyone else in my experience are insistent on >> that. For those thinking of law school and seeking good resources/advice, I >> do think Shelley's email is worth keeping. >> Jim McCarthy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shelley >> Richards via blindlaw >> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 10:04 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Shelley Richards >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? >> >> I never had any trouble with getting my books from the publishers. I >> almost >> always got the books before the class actually started as well. >> My school required professors to let the book store know 4 weeks before the >> semester started which books they would be using, and I found that I had >> plenty of time to get the books with just waiting until the required text >> lists were available from the book store. It probably helped though that >> the person in charge of ADA accomidations at my law school had direct >> communications with the specific people from each publisher of law texts >> who >> would actually be providing the PDF copies. I never had a problem with >> poore copies either. I certainly think they could have been done better >> for >> easier navigation, but the quality of the text was nearly perfect every >> time. >> I would usually run the PDF files through an OCR, Kurzweil in my case, and >> also put them onto my victor streem so that I had several options in the >> end >> for accessing and reading the materials no matter where I was. Having them >> on my stream and about half way through law school, also on my phone in >> Ibooks allowed me to even read on the subway just like many other >> classmates. I found the page numbering in the PDF files matched the >> numbering in the print books, so I never had major trouble figuring out >> where the correct pages or chapters were. I would still definitely >> consider >> using an OCR program, and looking into how to read PDF files on your phone. >> I believe the navigation in the original PDF was always more difficult than >> when I used Kurzweil or Ibooks, or my stream to read. >> I still used my scanner often to scan materials outside of the text book, >> but my professors were also very good about emailing clean copies of >> everything to me as well. I did make sure to open a line of communication >> with all my professors at the start of each semester, and I believe this >> really helped me when it came to accessing other materials outside of the >> text. I rarely, if ever, used a reader because it is just not a method I >> have ever particularly liked, but I did make sure I had that option >> available if necessary. My school was also very willing to scan anything >> for me anytime I needed it. When I had a 200 page book which my professor >> had written, but which had not yet been published, they scanned the entire >> thing for me, and emailed the files to me. >> Your school is the one who is supposed to send in the request for the books >> in electronic format, so you should talk to them ahead of time to see what >> experience they have in getting books from publishers, and how long it >> usually takes them to get the book from each publisher. >> >>> On 12/16/15, Nightingale, Noel via blindlaw wrote: >>> One can also file a complaint with the Office for Civil Rights of the >>> U.S. >>> Department of Education if being denied access to a university's >>> programs and activities. The complaint can be filed on-line at >> www.ed.gov/ocr. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Don >>> Padou via blindlaw >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 1:15 PM >>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> Cc: Don Padou >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? >>> >>> Hi Anita; >>> >>> When I was in law school the Dean of Students also served as a sort of >>> coordinator for providing accommodations under the ADA.Every semester >>> I told her the classes that I was taking and the books that I >>> needed.She wrote to the publishers and the publishers provided PDF format >> books. >>> >>> Sometimes the books came as one flarge ile and sometimes there was a >>> separate file for each chapter.Sometimes the PDF was emailed to me and >>> sometimes I received a CD.It depended on the length of the book. >>> >>> Only one publisher ever gave us grief: North Carolina Academic Press.I >>> was never able to get an electronic version of my contracts book and >>> had to use a scanned version. >>> >>> The Dean required me to show a receipt demonstrating that I actually >>> bought the books.The ADA does not require the publishers to give you >>> free books.I sold the hard copy books to a sighted class mate each >>> semester. >>> >>> There is a problem to be aware of.It can take several weeks for the >>> publisher to provide the PDF books.You are best served by getting your >>> request in early.Sometimes that means that you have to pester the >>> professor to tell you what books you need. >>> >>> If your law school doesn't do a good job of providing you with PDF >>> books in a timely manner then don't waste time.Pressure them >>> quickly.You are in law school for a short period of time and it will >>> affect your career.You cannot afford to fall behind in a class because >>> you don't receive a book until two months into the semester. >>> >>> In other words, don't hesitate to get an ADA lawyer. >>> >>> Good luck, >>> >>> Don Padou >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 12/15/2015 12:55 PM, Anita Keith-Foust via blindlaw wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I have been conspicuously absent for a few months. Of course, I am >>>> coming back with some questions about digital format law books. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Has anyone had any luck with getting the publisher to provide digital >>>> copies of books? Or, do I have to look forward to my books being >>>> butchered? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Please let me know. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Anita Keith-Foust >>>> >>>> 919-430-1978 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale >>> %40ed.gov >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards9 >>> %40gmail.com >> >> >> -- >> Thank You >> Shelley Palmadessa >> shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40mdtap.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards9%40gmail.com > > > -- > Thank You > Shelley Palmadessa > shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/sy.hoekstra%40gmail.com From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Thu Dec 17 18:32:31 2015 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (rjaquiss) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 10:32:31 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? In-Reply-To: References: <019701d1377a$e71a3fd0$b54ebf70$@gmail.com> <567082D1.6050107@yahoo.com> <013e01d138e4$ebce9ba0$c36bd2e0$@mdtap.org> Message-ID: <004b01d138f9$4b293920$e17bab60$@earthlink.net> Hello: When I was taking courses at a community college in 2009 and 2010, I found the same issue, the publishers of my courses only wanted to work with the DSS office. Regards, Robert -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shelley Richards via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 9:45 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Shelley Richards Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Do Digital Law Books? I had tried a few times to get the books myself, but to often ran into the problem of the publisher wanting the request to come directly from the school since they are only required to provide electronic texts for print impaired students who need them for school. Of course law school is generally dealing with a much smaller number of publishers, so maybe this is not the case overall and just a big thing with publishers of law texts. *** Previous message text deleted. *** From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Dec 18 16:36:34 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 16:36:34 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Paralegal positions Message-ID: From: [DO NOT REPLY] [mailto:notifications at usajobs.gov] Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 1:35 AM Subject: USAJOBS Daily Saved Search Results for Seattle social science, legal, education for 12/18/2015 To view the complete list of results on the USAJOBS web site, please click View All Opportunities. PARALEGAL SPECIALIST, GS-0950-12/13 Department: Department Of Health And Human Services Agency: Food and Drug Administration Number of Job Opportunities & Location(s): 1 vacancies - Location Negotiable After Selection, United States Salary: $61,486.00 to $95,048.00 / Series and Grade: GS-0950-12/13 Open Period: Thursday, December 17, 2015 to Wednesday, December 23, 2015 Position Information: Permanent - Full Time Who May Apply: AGENCY EMPLOYEES: FDA/ORA WIDE Interdisciplinary (Civil Works PM) Department: Department of the Army Agency: U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Number of Job Opportunities & Location(s): Few vacancies - Seattle, Washington Salary: $89,061.00 to $115,778.00 / Series and Grade: GS-0020-13 Open Period: Thursday, December 17, 2015 to Wednesday, December 23, 2015 Position Information: Permanent - Full Time Who May Apply: Status Candidates (Merit Promotion and VEOA Eligibles) To view the complete list of results on the USAJOBS web site, please click View All Opportunities. You received this email because you opted-in to receive customized job search results from USAJOBS. You can make changes or create additional saved searches via the Saved Searches section of your USAJOBS account. This area is located by logging into your USAJOBS account and clicking Saved Searches. Your Search(es) will have an option to modify the criteria. Simply click the Edit hyperlink under the name of the Saved Search to make changes. This saved search shall expire on 12/8/2016. Thank you for using USAJOBS! Sincerely, The USAJOBS Team U.S. Office of Personnel Management 1900 E Street NW. Washington, DC 20415 Add 'notifications at usajobs.gov' to your address book to ensure delivery of USAJOBS emails. If you doubt the authenticity of a USAJOBS email, please visit USAJOBS using your web browser. From there, you can log in to your account if an activity is being requested or email us directly to inquire about the authenticity of the email by using our USAJOBS Support page Please do not reply to this message. Replies to this message are routed to an unmonitored mailbox. If you have questions or comments please go to our USAJOBS Support page. From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 20 12:44:25 2015 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (Charles Krugman) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 04:44:25 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: <009801d133b1$ba2a5720$2e7f0560$@gmail.com> References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> <012201d132ef$eee0d6a0$cca283e0$@gmail.com> <00d501d1339c$57cc3310$07649930$@sbcglobal.net> <009801d133b1$ba2a5720$2e7f0560$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3C3B5CC1A2BC460CADCAC5A95C9DD840@Spike> This is not a new issue especially for those in government employment. When I worked for the Social Security Administration as a Vocational expert in Detroit in the early eighties it was a concern as there were several incidents of disgruntled claimants that came to Social Security offices with guns after they had claims denied. I also experienced situations when I worked as a mental health clinician in various settings and this isn't something to take likely and for reference purposes I came within about 15 feet of being struck by lightning when I was in high school. happy holidays. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Ronza Othman via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:17 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Ronza Othman Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? My Agency seems to go on lockdown 3-4 times a year, and just a few weeks back someone tried to get into the complex to shot some employees. This isn't as uncommon as you would imagine, particularly for lawyers and government employees; even though we are in a helping profession, people just don't like us much. Also, the term "going postal" is a thing due to significant numbers of workplace violence incidents afterall. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:50 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? True enough - but before these trainings were the rage, we already had a potential situation at our courthouse (juvenile), where a person who had just assaulted a street vendor then escaped into our facility and was actively evading security, suspected of being armed. One of our then-pregnant co-workers ended up locked in detention, missing lunch and meds, for several hours due to the lockdown. We don't handle emergencies well as an organization, it seems. Thus, trying to think ahead. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 3:45 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Daniel McBride Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? Dear List: I have been following this thread with some interest. I would like to point out that your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are greater than the odds that you will ever be confronted a so-called active shooter. And I never spend one minute of my life with concerns of being struck by lightning. Daniel McBride Fort Worth, Texas -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shelley Richards via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:20 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Shelley Richards Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? Hiding in the evidence cabinet, I like that idea. I would definitely fit in one. I think the best advice is to figure out for yourself ahead of time where the best hiding places are, and be sure you know how to get to those places from anywhere in the building you might be. Have someone help at first if needed until you are confident that you can get several possible locations on your own from anywhere you might be. I have never been involved in an actual drill because my building has not done them, but I have thought about it before and always figured I just need to have good hiding places in mind which I know I can get to confidently. Of course I also think of places where my dog can hide with me as well. I definitely would think this might be a more difficult situation for a wheel chair user. I would be interested in talking to some wheel chair users to see what they might think is a good way to deal with this type of situation. I have to agree that relying on a sighted coworker is not necessarily a good plan. I personally would not feel confident relying on sighted assistance from anybody in a situation which is almost definitely going to cause panic and chaos. It is also such an unpredictable situation, and nobody really knows how they will handle it until it happens. Definitely not the best time to be counting on someone else who does not even know how they themselves will handle a real life active shooter situation. Shelley Palmadessa On 12/10/15, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > Thanks - that has always been my thought and plan. Being small, I > figure that I can hide in an evidence cabinet in the courtroom if > nothing else exists. Allegedly, there is a space for wheelchair bound > persons in the judicial chambers area at court, but...this is on the > second floor, and is in a mag-card protected restricted area. It is > thus difficult to figure how that will work in such a situation, > particularly given that we have only two, very small elevators. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ronza > Othman via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:10 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Ronza Othman > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared > towards working with employees with disabilities. So when we get the > Active Shooter Training, evacuation training, shelter in place > training, biohazard training, all of it, they do think about and talk > about how individuals with disabilities can respond. For active > shooter, the rule is run, hide, fight. > Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as > possible (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't > going to be seen. > They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to > run or hide. When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a > sturdy location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible. > They suggest you scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a > couple of options for "safe rooms" like storage rooms. They talk > about how bathrooms aren't always the best place to hide because the > doors don't lock. They talk about how folks in wheelchairs, to the > extent possible, should either find places to hide where their chairs > are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out of their > chairs to secure a smaller hiding place. And with regard to fight, > they say to use whatever you have access to - hands, equipment, > whatever, to fight. > > Hope this helps. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri > via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Keri > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > That seems to be the most common. > > On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >> So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker >> look > out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Gerard Sadlier >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >> >> Hi, >> >> This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in >> reading > re: adaptations etc. suggested. >> >> Thanks >> >> Ger >> >> On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: >>> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. >>> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real policeman) >>> offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I don't think there >>> is official methods. My school is willing to teach for different >>> situations however to students, staff, and faculty. >>> >>> >>> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal >>>> question (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that >>>> many of us are governmental employees, or at least in larger >>>> groups, I am hoping there is an answer among us. >>>> >>>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple of > years. >>>> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or suggestions >>>> for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. Has anyone >>>> participated in a training that accounts for these differences? >>>> Does any such training even exist? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gma >>>> i >>>> l >>>> .com >>> -- >>> Keri >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier >>> % >>> 4 >>> 0gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40p >> i >> ma.gov >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail. >> com > > -- > Keri > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pi > ma.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards9 > %40gmail.com > -- Thank You Shelley Palmadessa shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From rumpole at roadrunner.com Sun Dec 20 13:52:14 2015 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross A. Doerr) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 08:52:14 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? In-Reply-To: <3C3B5CC1A2BC460CADCAC5A95C9DD840@Spike> References: <56684F91.6060307@gmail.com> <56689116.3010303@gmail.com> <012201d132ef$eee0d6a0$cca283e0$@gmail.com> <00d501d1339c$57cc3310$07649930$@sbcglobal.net> <009801d133b1$ba2a5720$2e7f0560$@gmail.com> <3C3B5CC1A2BC460CADCAC5A95C9DD840@Spike> Message-ID: <000001d13b2d$a2316bd0$e6944370$@roadrunner.com> Chuck - I agree. And just to finish driving home your point, I've been knocked out cold by a lightening strike. So the " you have a better chance of being struck by lightening" comments hold no water with me. During the years I worked for a P&A, we were under permanent lockdown for this very reason. When you represent a large portion of individuals with amental illnesses, you need to exercise caution. Its just a part of doing this kind of work. In one instance, after a client threatened to shoot me, I reported him to the local police. My Executive director jumped all over me, berating me that his threat was "just talk." That client was later arrested for armed robbery. Another time I checked on a rumor about a new client to discover that it was true. The client had shot a pizza delivery person through his apartment door and then shot at law enforcement. I checked this all out and arranged to meet with the client on the Medicaid/Medicare matter in a safe environment. Again my executive director was furious with me for having looked into the client's history. I'm not vilifying anyone here. I'm merely pointing out that, whether it regards your choice of work, or you are in a public setting, you need to take your own safety into your own hands. Do the best you can for yourself. Be realistic about it, but do what you can on your own. Ross Doerr -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Charles Krugman via blindlaw Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2015 7:44 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Charles Krugman Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? This is not a new issue especially for those in government employment. When I worked for the Social Security Administration as a Vocational expert in Detroit in the early eighties it was a concern as there were several incidents of disgruntled claimants that came to Social Security offices with guns after they had claims denied. I also experienced situations when I worked as a mental health clinician in various settings and this isn't something to take likely and for reference purposes I came within about 15 feet of being struck by lightning when I was in high school. happy holidays. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Ronza Othman via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:17 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Ronza Othman Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? My Agency seems to go on lockdown 3-4 times a year, and just a few weeks back someone tried to get into the complex to shot some employees. This isn't as uncommon as you would imagine, particularly for lawyers and government employees; even though we are in a helping profession, people just don't like us much. Also, the term "going postal" is a thing due to significant numbers of workplace violence incidents afterall. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:50 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Susan Kelly Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? True enough - but before these trainings were the rage, we already had a potential situation at our courthouse (juvenile), where a person who had just assaulted a street vendor then escaped into our facility and was actively evading security, suspected of being armed. One of our then-pregnant co-workers ended up locked in detention, missing lunch and meds, for several hours due to the lockdown. We don't handle emergencies well as an organization, it seems. Thus, trying to think ahead. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McBride via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 3:45 PM To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' Cc: Daniel McBride Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? Dear List: I have been following this thread with some interest. I would like to point out that your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are greater than the odds that you will ever be confronted a so-called active shooter. And I never spend one minute of my life with concerns of being struck by lightning. Daniel McBride Fort Worth, Texas -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shelley Richards via blindlaw Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:20 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Shelley Richards Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? Hiding in the evidence cabinet, I like that idea. I would definitely fit in one. I think the best advice is to figure out for yourself ahead of time where the best hiding places are, and be sure you know how to get to those places from anywhere in the building you might be. Have someone help at first if needed until you are confident that you can get several possible locations on your own from anywhere you might be. I have never been involved in an actual drill because my building has not done them, but I have thought about it before and always figured I just need to have good hiding places in mind which I know I can get to confidently. Of course I also think of places where my dog can hide with me as well. I definitely would think this might be a more difficult situation for a wheel chair user. I would be interested in talking to some wheel chair users to see what they might think is a good way to deal with this type of situation. I have to agree that relying on a sighted coworker is not necessarily a good plan. I personally would not feel confident relying on sighted assistance from anybody in a situation which is almost definitely going to cause panic and chaos. It is also such an unpredictable situation, and nobody really knows how they will handle it until it happens. Definitely not the best time to be counting on someone else who does not even know how they themselves will handle a real life active shooter situation. Shelley Palmadessa On 12/10/15, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: > Thanks - that has always been my thought and plan. Being small, I > figure that I can hide in an evidence cabinet in the courtroom if > nothing else exists. Allegedly, there is a space for wheelchair bound > persons in the judicial chambers area at court, but...this is on the > second floor, and is in a mag-card protected restricted area. It is > thus difficult to figure how that will work in such a situation, > particularly given that we have only two, very small elevators. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ronza > Othman via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:10 PM > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' > Cc: Ronza Othman > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared > towards working with employees with disabilities. So when we get the > Active Shooter Training, evacuation training, shelter in place > training, biohazard training, all of it, they do think about and talk > about how individuals with disabilities can respond. For active > shooter, the rule is run, hide, fight. > Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as > possible (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't > going to be seen. > They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to > run or hide. When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a > sturdy location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible. > They suggest you scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a > couple of options for "safe rooms" like storage rooms. They talk > about how bathrooms aren't always the best place to hide because the > doors don't lock. They talk about how folks in wheelchairs, to the > extent possible, should either find places to hide where their chairs > are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out of their > chairs to secure a smaller hiding place. And with regard to fight, > they say to use whatever you have access to - hands, equipment, > whatever, to fight. > > Hope this helps. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri > via blindlaw > Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Keri > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? > > That seems to be the most common. > > On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >> So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker >> look > out for us. Not exactly an empowering solution. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of >> Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM >> To: Blind Law Mailing List >> Cc: Gerard Sadlier >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings? >> >> Hi, >> >> This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in >> reading > re: adaptations etc. suggested. >> >> Thanks >> >> Ger >> >> On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw wrote: >>> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions. >>> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real policeman) >>> offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I don't think there >>> is official methods. My school is willing to teach for different >>> situations however to students, staff, and faculty. >>> >>> >>> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote: >>>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal >>>> question (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that >>>> many of us are governmental employees, or at least in larger >>>> groups, I am hoping there is an answer among us. >>>> >>>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple of > years. >>>> Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or suggestions >>>> for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound. Has anyone >>>> participated in a training that accounts for these differences? >>>> Does any such training even exist? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gma >>>> i >>>> l >>>> .com >>> -- >>> Keri >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/gerard.sadlier >>> % >>> 4 >>> 0gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40p >> i >> ma.gov >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail. >> com > > -- > Keri > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pi > ma.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/shelleyrichards9 > %40gmail.com > -- Thank You Shelley Palmadessa shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dlmlaw%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rothmanjd%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.c om From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 22 18:32:20 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 18:32:20 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Request for Resumes for Supervisory General Attorney (Team Leader) OCR District of Columbia Office (Metro) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Wender, Alice Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 2:47 PM Subject: Request for Resumes for Supervisory General Attorney (Team Leader) OCR District of Columbia Office (Metro) Good afternoon, The District of Columbia Office is considering resumes for a Supervisory Team Leader position, GS-0905-14. Anyone interested in the Supervisory General Attorney (GS-905-14) position should mail or email a resume and letter of interest to Dale Rhines (Dale.Rhines at ed.gov) by January 8, 2016. Please see attached for more information. Thank you, Alice Wender Director -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Final Request for Resumes -Supv Atty District of Columbia Office.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 37637 bytes Desc: Final Request for Resumes -Supv Atty District of Columbia Office.docx URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 22 18:32:57 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 18:32:57 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Request for Resumes for Supervisory General Attorney (Team Leader) OCR Cleveland In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Chandra, Meena Morey Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 9:01 AM Subject: Request for Resumes for Supervisory General Attorney (Team Leader) OCR Cleveland Good afternoon, The Cleveland Office is considering resumes for a Supervisory Team Leader position, GS-0905-14. Anyone interested in the Supervisory General Attorney (GS-905-14) position should mail or email a resume and letter of interest to Emily Babb (Emily.Babb at ed.gov) by Friday, January 8, 2016. Please see attached for more information. Thank you, Meena Morey Chandra ___________________________________ Meena Morey Chandra Regional Director, Cleveland Office U.S. Department of Education, Office for Civil Rights U.S. Bank Building 1350 Euclid Avenue, Suite 325 Cleveland, Ohio 44115 Tel. (216) 522-2677 (Direct Dial) Tel. (216) 522-4970 (Main Line) Fax (216) 522-2573 meena,morey.chandra at ed.gov www.ed.gov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Request for Resumes -Supv Atty Cleveland Office.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 36499 bytes Desc: Request for Resumes -Supv Atty Cleveland Office.docx URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 22 19:39:53 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 19:39:53 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Request for Resumes for Supervisory General Attorney (Team Leader) OCR New York In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Blanchard, Timothy Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 11:29 AM Subject: Request for Resumes for Supervisory General Attorney (Team Leader) OCR New York Good afternoon, The New York Office is considering resumes for a Supervisory Team Leader position, GS-0905-14. Anyone interested in the Supervisory General Attorney (GS-905-14) position should mail or email a resume and letter of interest to Rachel Pomerantz (Rachel.Pomerantz at ed.gov) by Friday, January 8, 2016. Please see attached for more information. Thank you, Tim Blanchard -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Request for Resumes -Supv Atty New York Office.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 36578 bytes Desc: Request for Resumes -Supv Atty New York Office.docx URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Dec 23 00:30:40 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 00:30:40 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Request for Resumes for Supervisory General Attorney (Team Leader) OCR San Francisco In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Zeidman, Arthur Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 4:26 PM Subject: Request for Resumes for Supervisory General Attorney (Team Leader) OCR San Francisco Good afternoon, The San Francisco Office is considering resumes for a Supervisory Team Leader position, GS-0905-14. Anyone interested in the Supervisory General Attorney (GS-905-14) position should mail or email a resume and letter of interest to ocr.sanfrancisco at ed.gov. by Friday, January 8, 2016. Please see attached for more information. Thank you. Art Zeidman, Director -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Request for Resumes for SF Supv General Attorney position - gs905.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 36844 bytes Desc: Request for Resumes for SF Supv General Attorney position - gs905.docx URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Dec 23 22:53:06 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 22:53:06 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] {Disarmed} Free through Dec. 31: recorded CLE on inclusive workplaces provides 1.5 AV CLE credits In-Reply-To: <0.0.72.EAA.1D139DA649ABDCA.0@drone127.ral.icpbounce.com> References: <0.0.72.EAA.1D139DA649ABDCA.0@drone127.ral.icpbounce.com> Message-ID: From: WSBA-CLE [mailto:cle at wsba.org] Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 12:31 PM Subject: Free through Dec. 31: recorded CLE on inclusive workplaces provides 1.5 AV CLE credits [December Legal Lunchbox] Free recorded CLE available through Dec. 31: This month’s Legal Lunchbox Series CLE topic: Creating an Inclusive Workplace for Attorneys with Disabilities [Video or MP3 recording available Dec. 1 – 31, 2015] Video or MP3 recording available through Dec. 31, 2015 [1.5 AV general CLE credits] Approved for 1.5 AV general CLE credits for Washington attorneys. (Half of the required 45 CLE credits each reporting period may be AV credits from recorded CLE seminars.) [FREE to all WSBA members] FREE to all WSBA members Available through Dec. 31, 2015 In the 2012 Washington State Bar Association (WSBA) membership study, 21 percent of WSBA members reported living with a disability or impairment. Join an open and interactive discussion — with a panel that includes attorneys with disabilities and law firm managing attorneys — on the institutional and historical practices that need to be reexamined in order to build a path to a more inclusive work environment that benefits both law firms and the practice of law. Click here to access the video or audio MP3 for free any time in December. *Important note: If you attended the live webcast of this program on June 17, 2015 and reported live CLE credits, you may not also report AV credits from listening to the recording. Accessing the December free Legal Lunchbox recording: This recording in either audio MP3 or video format will be available at no cost to WSBA members throughout the month of December. Starting Dec. 1, select the media type you prefer (audio MP3 or video), then click the "Add to Cart" button and proceed through the check-out process (this will require you to log in to your myWSBA account). At the conclusion of the check-out process, the price of the recording will show as zero and the recording will be available in your "My CLE" area (far right tab at the top of the online store homepage at www.wsbacle.org.) The video will be available to stream directly to your computer. The MP3 audio file will have been downloaded directly to your computer; from there, burn it to a disc or save it to a mobile device so you can listen from anywhere. Questions? Contact the WSBA Service Center toll-free at 1-800-945 WSBA. Get CLE credits anytime, anywhere, with WSBA recorded seminars. You'll find hundreds of selections on the CLE Store. [WSBA Recorded Seminars] This message was sent to noel.nightingale at ed.gov from: WSBA-CLE | cle at wsba.org | Washington State Bar Association | 1325 4th Ave., Suite 600 | Seattle, WA 98101 Email Marketing by [iContact - Try It Free!] Manage Your Subscription From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Dec 23 23:34:54 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 23:34:54 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Attorney Vacancies Update References: <16959589.464@public.govdelivery.com> Message-ID: From: U.S. Department of Justice [mailto:usdoj at public.govdelivery.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 3:16 PM Subject: Attorney Vacancies Update [Image removed by sender. U.S. Department of Justice] You are subscribed to Attorney Vacancies for U.S. Department of Justice. This page has recently been updated with the following new information: Special Litigation Counsel 12/23/2015 04:47 PM EST Civil Rights Division (CRT) Special Litigation Section Washington, DC Announcement #: 15-ATT-031 Application Deadline: January 8, 2016 The Attorney selected for this position will be responsible for duties such as, but not limited to: (1) supervising sensitive and/or complex investigations, litigation, and negotiations relating to SPL's work addressing the unnecessary institutionalization of individuals with disabilities; (2) reviewing, editing, and approving extensive written work product; (3) supervising and mentoring attorneys and other Section staff; (4) working with the Section Chief and management team to develop and establish strategies and priorities for SPL's work addressing the unnecessary segregation of individuals with disabilities; (5) coordinating with other federal agencies to develop strategies for effective and efficient information sharing; (6) supervising and conducting outreach activities; and (7) undertaking various administrative duties, including evaluating attorneys and staff and performing non-litigating assignments and special projects assigned by the Chief or other officials in the Division. The incumbent will be responsible for supervising: screening and development of new matters; comprehensive investigations involving in-person visits, witness interviews, experts, data analysis, and preparation of written recommendations and legal analyses; litigation involving all aspects of the Section's work addressing the unnecessary segregation of individuals with disabilities; the negotiation, monitoring, and enforcement of settlement agreements; and attorney and staff development. Litigation associated with the Section's investigations is typically complex, involving extensive discovery, pretrial motions practice, preliminary injunction hearings, trials, and post-judgment enforcement and contempt proceedings. ________________________________ [Image removed by sender. Instagram icon] | [Image removed by sender. FaceBook icon] | [Image removed by sender. YouTube icon] | [Image removed by sender. Twitter icon] AG Twitter feed | [Image removed by sender. Twitter icon] DOJ Twitter feed ________________________________ You have received this e-mail because you have asked to be notified of changes to the U.S. Department of Justice website. GovDelivery is providing this service on behalf of the Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Ave., NW * Washington, DC 20530 * 202-514-2000 and may not use your subscription information for any other purposes. Manage your Subscriptions | Department of Justice Privacy Policy | GovDelivery Privacy Policy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 930 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 335 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Dec 23 23:36:04 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 23:36:04 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Non-Competitive Hire for the GS-0905-12 General Attorney in the Philadelphia Office (THIS IS NOT A VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Fox, Wendella Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 2:59 PM Subject: RE: Non-Competitive Hire for the GS-0905-12 General Attorney in the Philadelphia Office (THIS IS NOT A VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT) Philadelphia OCR is considering resumes for an attorney position (GS-0905-12). If you know of anyone who may be interested, I am requesting that resumes be submitted to ocr.philadelphia at ed.gov or mailed to arrive by midnight on Thursday December 31, 2015. Thanks Wendella Wendella P. Fox Director of the Philadelphia office US Department of Education, Office for Civil Rights Wanamaker Building, Suite 515 100 Penn Square East Philadelphia, PA 19107 (215) 656-8541 (main #) (215) 656-8542 (direct) From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Dec 24 00:29:30 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 00:29:30 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies Update In-Reply-To: <16959610.464@public.govdelivery.com> References: <16959610.464@public.govdelivery.com> Message-ID: From: U.S. Department of Justice [mailto:usdoj at public.govdelivery.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 4:17 PM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: Attorney Vacancies Update [Image removed by sender. U.S. Department of Justice] You are subscribed to Attorney Vacancies for U.S. Department of Justice. This page has recently been updated with the following new information: Supervisory Attorney Adviser (Deputy Chief) 12/23/2015 05:46 PM EST Civil Rights Division (CRT) Disability Rights Section Washington, DC Announcement #: 15-ATT-032 Application Deadline: January 12, 2016 The Attorney selected for the Deputy Chief position will be responsible for managing assigned staff within the Section, which includes special counsel, a team of attorney advisers, and other professional and support personnel. Additional responsibilities include: -drafting, developing and publishing regulations that implement the disability nondiscrimination obligations of title II (State and local government programs and services) and title III (public accommodations) of the ADA, and the Department's regulations implementing section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act. As the Department of Justice liaison to the U.S. Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance Board (Access Board), the incumbent provides the views of the Department on the Access Board's development and promulgation of accessibility guidelines; -providing legal guidance and technical assistance concerning the Department's interpretation of the regulations implementing titles II and III of the ADA, as well as coordinating pursuant to EO 12250 the interpretation and enforcement of section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act across the Federal government; -responding to requests from State and local governments to certify that their accessibility codes are equivalent to the ADA Standards for Accessible Design; -providing technical assistance to private sector organizations that develop model accessibility codes and standards; -providing legal and policy guidance or disability rights training to other Federal agencies; -overseeing the Department's responsibilities for reports and recommendations under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act; and -prepares reports, including those required by statute, to the President and/or Congress concerning, for example, the Federal government's implementation of section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. Additionally, the incumbent will assist the Section Chief and other Section managers in a variety of administrative and management tasks in supervising the activities of a 100+ person staff. Further, shall be responsive to requests for information and shall provide advice and recommendations to Division management. ________________________________ [Image removed by sender. Instagram icon] | [Image removed by sender. FaceBook icon] | [Image removed by sender. YouTube icon] | [Image removed by sender. Twitter icon] AG Twitter feed | [Image removed by sender. Twitter icon] DOJ Twitter feed ________________________________ You have received this e-mail because you have asked to be notified of changes to the U.S. Department of Justice website. GovDelivery is providing this service on behalf of the Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Ave., NW * Washington, DC 20530 * 202-514-2000 and may not use your subscription information for any other purposes. Manage your Subscriptions | Department of Justice Privacy Policy | GovDelivery Privacy Policy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 930 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 335 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 24 10:25:57 2015 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (Charles Krugman) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 02:25:57 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Most Worthwhile Legal Jobs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A5F9F4955394955891C158B10CE9692@Spike> as a paralegal I have found it most worthwhile working for criminal defense attorneys in a public defender's office where they actively tried cases and did a good job of making sure that justice was served by taking cases to trial where there was significant doubt about the guilt of the accused. I also found it worthwhile working with personal inujury and other attorneys that sought to obtain damages or benefits for those who deserved them when issues of negligence needed to be addressed. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 11:50 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Gerard Sadlier Subject: [blindlaw] Most Worthwhile Legal Jobs? Hey all, Here's a question - what do you think the most worthwhile legal jobs are? Not necessarily referring to most financially rewarding - though obviously that's one thing to consider? Thoughts on this welcome Ger _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From rumpole at roadrunner.com Thu Dec 24 13:16:04 2015 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross A. Doerr) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 08:16:04 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Merry Xmas Message-ID: <002501d13e4d$3e880300$bb980900$@roadrunner.com> To one and all out there - may everyone, everywhere have a wonderful Xmas, and happiest of New Years. This Xmas wish comes to you from Augusta, Maine where it is 45 degrees outside. Did the Grinch steal Xmas? Ross Doerr Attorney at Law From jty727 at gmail.com Sun Dec 27 23:42:21 2015 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 18:42:21 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] 2016 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium Information Message-ID: Hello: Hope this message finds you all well & you've enjoyed the Holiday season! I was wondering if anyone knew any information regarding the 2016 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium? I apologize if I missed a save the date email on this list, but I wanted to ask in case my schedule will permit me to attend. Thank you, Justin Young From LBlake at nfb.org Mon Dec 28 13:15:48 2015 From: LBlake at nfb.org (Blake, Lou Ann) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:15:48 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] 2016 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium Information In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Justin and List Members, The 2016 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium, "Diversity in the Disability Rights Movement: Working Together to Achieve the Right to Live in the World," will take place on March 31 and April 1. Registration should be open by mid-January, so be on the lookout for the notice. Best regards, Lou Ann -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young via blindlaw Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 6:42 PM To: Blind List Cc: Justin Young Subject: [blindlaw] 2016 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium Information Hello: Hope this message finds you all well & you've enjoyed the Holiday season! I was wondering if anyone knew any information regarding the 2016 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium? I apologize if I missed a save the date email on this list, but I wanted to ask in case my schedule will permit me to attend. Thank you, Justin Young _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lblake%40nfb.org From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 29 16:56:36 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:56:36 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Non-Competitive Hire for the GS-0905-11 or 12 General Attorney in the San Francisco Office (THIS IS NOT A VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OCR San Francisco is considering resumes for attorney positions (GS-0905-11 or 12). If you know of anyone who may be interested, I am requesting that resumes be submitted to ocr.sanfrancisco at ed.gov or mailed to arrive by COB January 8, 2015. Thanks. Art Zeidman Director, San Francisco OCR From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 29 17:47:11 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 17:47:11 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Non-Competitive Hire for the GS-0905-11 or 12 General Attorney in the Chicago Office References: Message-ID: The Office for Civil Rights at the Department of Education maintains a resume bank from which candidates may be selected for consideration to fill vacancies for positions in OCR as they arise. OCR accepts resumes from individuals who are eligible for consideration for noncompetitive hiring via: Schedule A Persons with Disabilities appointments (5 CFR 213.3102(u)); Veterans' Recruitment Appointments; former Peace Corps and AmeriCorps appointees (22 USC 2506); and Excepted Hiring Authority for Attorneys. The OCR Chicago Office is considering resumes for attorney positions (GS-0905-11 or 12). If you know of anyone who may be interested, I am requesting that resumes and cover letters be submitted to sonja.stuart at ed.gov or be mailed to arrive by 11:59 p.m. on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 to the following address: Ms. Sonja Stuart U.S. Department of Education Office for Civil Rights 500 West Madison Street Suite 1475 Chicago, IL 60661 OCR Chicago will keep resumes on file for possible consideration for 365 days following the date of submission to fill current or future positions in OCR Chicago as vacancies arise. Should an individual be selected for consideration, he or she will be contacted by OCR Chicago to confirm his or her continued interest. Please share with your respective networks and potential candidates with relevant experience. Thank you, Adele Rapport From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 29 17:54:57 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 17:54:57 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Non-Competitive Hire for the GS-0905-11 or 12 General Attorney in the Boston Office (THIS IS NOT A VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Boston OCR is considering resumes for an attorney position (GS-0905-11 or 12). If you know of anyone who may be interested, I am requesting that resumes be submitted to ocr.BOSTON at ed.gov or mailed to arrive by COB January 4, 2016. Thanks and Happy Holidays! Diane Henson From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 29 18:03:42 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:03:42 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Seattle Office Non-Competitive Hire for General Attorney (THIS IS NOT A VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The Seattle Office is considering resumes for non-competitive general attorney positions (GS-0905-11 or 12). If you know of anyone who may be interested, please email a resume and cover letter to sarah.dunne at ed.gov by COB January 5, 2016. Happy Holidays, Linda Mangel Director, Seattle Office Office for Civil Rights US Department of Education 915 Second Ave., Suite 3310 Seattle, Washington 98174-1099 (206) 607-1600 - Main Number (206) 607-1617 - Direct Line From mikefry79 at gmail.com Tue Dec 29 18:07:36 2015 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Mike) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 10:07:36 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Seattle Office Non-Competitive Hire for General Attorney (THIS IS NOT A VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Noel, Are there any non-competitive posts for NYC? If so, will you forward the link? Sent from Mike Fry > On Dec 29, 2015, at 10:03 AM, Nightingale, Noel via blindlaw wrote: > > > The Seattle Office is considering resumes for non-competitive general attorney positions (GS-0905-11 or 12). If you know of anyone who may be interested, please email a resume and cover letter to sarah.dunne at ed.gov by COB January 5, 2016. > > Happy Holidays, > > > Linda Mangel > Director, Seattle Office > Office for Civil Rights > US Department of Education > 915 Second Ave., Suite 3310 > Seattle, Washington 98174-1099 > (206) 607-1600 - Main Number > (206) 607-1617 - Direct Line > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 29 18:07:37 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:07:37 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Non-Competitive Hire for the GS-0905-11 or 12 General Attorney in the District of Columbia Office (THIS IS NOT A VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OCR Metro is considering resumes for an attorney position (GS-0905-11 or 12). If you know of anyone who may be interested, I am requesting that resumes be submitted to ocr.DC at ed.gov or mailed to arrive by COB January 4, 2015. Thanks Alice Wender From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 29 18:38:57 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:38:57 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Hiring for General Attorney in the OCR Kansas City Office (THIS IS NOT A VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OCR Kansas City is considering resumes for General Attorney positions at the GS-0905-11 and GS-0905-12 grade levels. If you know of interested and qualified persons, please have them submit resumes by midnight on Friday, January 8, 2016, to Josh Douglass, Chief Attorney, at Joshua.douglass at ed.gov or at One Petticoat Lane, 1010 Walnut, suite 230, Kansas City, Mo. 64106. Thanks! Bill From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 29 18:39:18 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:39:18 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Hiring for General Attorney in the OCR New York Office (THIS IS NOT A VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OCR New York is considering resumes for General Attorney positions at the GS-0905-11 and GS-0905-12 grade levels. If you know of interested and qualified persons, please have them submit resumes by midnight on Friday, January 8, 2016, to Rachel Pomerantz, Chief Attorney, at Rachel.Pomerantz at ed.gov or at 32 Old Slip Road, Floor 26, New York, NY 10005. Thanks! Tim Blanchard Regional Director OCR New York From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 29 18:40:29 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:40:29 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Seattle Office Non-Competitive Hire for General Attorney (THIS IS NOT A VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes. Just forwarded. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike via blindlaw Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 10:08 AM To: Blind Law Mailing List Cc: Mike Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Seattle Office Non-Competitive Hire for General Attorney (THIS IS NOT A VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT) Hi Noel, Are there any non-competitive posts for NYC? If so, will you forward the link? Sent from Mike Fry > On Dec 29, 2015, at 10:03 AM, Nightingale, Noel via blindlaw wrote: > > > The Seattle Office is considering resumes for non-competitive general attorney positions (GS-0905-11 or 12). If you know of anyone who may be interested, please email a resume and cover letter to sarah.dunne at ed.gov by COB January 5, 2016. > > Happy Holidays, > > > Linda Mangel > Director, Seattle Office > Office for Civil Rights > US Department of Education > 915 Second Ave., Suite 3310 > Seattle, Washington 98174-1099 > (206) 607-1600 - Main Number > (206) 607-1617 - Direct Line > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From mikefry79 at gmail.com Tue Dec 29 18:42:54 2015 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Mike) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 10:42:54 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Seattle Office Non-Competitive Hire for General Attorney (THIS IS NOT A VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you. Sent from Mike Fry > On Dec 29, 2015, at 10:40 AM, Nightingale, Noel via blindlaw wrote: > > Yes. Just forwarded. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike via blindlaw > Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 10:08 AM > To: Blind Law Mailing List > Cc: Mike > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Seattle Office Non-Competitive Hire for General Attorney (THIS IS NOT A VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT) > > Hi Noel, > > Are there any non-competitive posts for NYC? If so, will you forward the link? > > Sent from Mike Fry > >> On Dec 29, 2015, at 10:03 AM, Nightingale, Noel via blindlaw wrote: >> >> >> The Seattle Office is considering resumes for non-competitive general attorney positions (GS-0905-11 or 12). If you know of anyone who may be interested, please email a resume and cover letter to sarah.dunne at ed.gov by COB January 5, 2016. >> >> Happy Holidays, >> >> >> Linda Mangel >> Director, Seattle Office >> Office for Civil Rights >> US Department of Education >> 915 Second Ave., Suite 3310 >> Seattle, Washington 98174-1099 >> (206) 607-1600 - Main Number >> (206) 607-1617 - Direct Line >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Dec 30 19:21:39 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 19:21:39 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Hiring for Equal Opportunity Specialist in the OCR Denver Office (THIS IS NOT A VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OCR-Denver is considering resumes for Equal Opportunity Specialist positions (GS-360-7/9/11/12 grade levels) if the applicant meets one of the qualifications below. If you know of interested and qualified persons, please have them submit resumes and documentation supporting eligibility by Friday, January 8, 2016, by e-mail to the OCR Denver Mailbox (OCR.Denver at ed.gov) or by mail to U.S. Department of Education, Office for Civil Rights, 1244 Speer Blvd., Suite 310, Denver, CO 80204-3582. Please note the following qualifications below: Schedule A Persons with Disabilities Schedule A, 5 CFR 213.3102(u), for hiring individuals with severe physical and other disabilities. This authority can be used to hire individuals with disabilities at any General Schedule (GS) or equivalent grade level through (GS) 15 including attorneys and non‐attorneys. This position may be converted by the hiring manager or supervisor to the competitive service. Veterans Veterans' Recruitment Appointment (VRA). Hiring managers can appoint under this authority at any grade level up to and including the GS-11 grade level. For veterans who: * are a recently separated veteran (within the last 3 years), OR * are in receipt of a campaign badge for service during a war or in a campaign or expedition; OR * are in receipt of an Armed forces Service Medal for participation in a military operation, OR * are a disabled veteran (CP), AND * separated under honorable conditions (this means an honorable or general discharge) After completing 2 years of satisfactory service, the agency must convert the non-attorney veteran to career or career-conditional status in the competitive service. Disabled Veterans * 10 Point Compensable Disability Preference (CP). Eligible veterans can be appointed without soliciting through vacancy announcements to positions at any grade level through GS-11. This appointment authority is for veterans with a compensable service‐connected disability rating of at least 10% but less than 30%. For non-attorney veterans, this position must be converted by the hiring manager or supervisor to a career or career-conditional appointment in the competitive service after two years of satisfactory service. * * 10 Point 30 percent Compensable Disability Preference (CPS). Eligible veterans can be appointed without soliciting through vacancy announcements to positions at any grade level through GS-15. This appointment authority is for veterans with a compensable service‐connected disability rating of 30% or more. For non-attorney veterans, this position may be converted by the hiring manager or supervisor to a career conditional appointment in the competitive service any time after the 60th day of service. Thank you for your consideration of this request. J. Aaron Romine Director U.S. Department of Education, Office for Civil Rights Region VIII - Denver -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 170 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Dec 30 19:22:17 2015 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 19:22:17 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Hiring for General Attorney in the OCR Denver Office (THIS IS NOT A VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OCR Denver is considering resumes for General Attorney positions at the GS-0905-11 and GS-0905-12 grade levels. If you know of interested and qualified persons, please have them submit resumes by Friday, January 8, 2016, by e-mail to the OCR Denver Mailbox (OCR.Denver at ed.gov) or by mail to U.S. Department of Education, Office for Civil Rights, 1244 Speer Blvd., Suite 310, Denver, CO 80204-3582. Thank you for your consideration of this request. J. Aaron Romine Director U.S. Department of Education, Office for Civil Rights Region VIII - Denver