[blindlaw] active shooter trainings?

Ross A. Doerr rumpole at roadrunner.com
Sun Dec 20 13:52:14 UTC 2015 

Chuck - I agree.  And just to finish driving home your point, I've been
knocked out cold by a lightening strike.
So the " you have a better chance of being struck by lightening" comments
hold no water with me.
During the years I worked for a P&A, we were under permanent lockdown for
this very reason. When you represent a large portion of individuals with
amental illnesses, you need to exercise caution.  Its just a part of doing
this kind of work.  
 In one instance, after a client threatened to shoot me, I reported him to
the local police. My Executive director jumped all over me, berating me that
his threat was "just talk."
That client was later arrested for armed robbery.
Another time I checked on a rumor about a new client to discover that it was
true. The client had shot a pizza delivery person through his apartment door
and then shot at law enforcement.  I checked this all out and arranged to
meet with the client on the Medicaid/Medicare matter in a safe environment.
Again my executive director was furious with me for having looked into the
client's history.
I'm not vilifying anyone here.  I'm merely pointing out that, whether it
regards your choice of work, or you are in a public setting, you need to
take your own safety into your own hands.
Do the best you can for yourself.   Be realistic about it, but do what you
can on your own.
Ross Doerr
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Charles
Krugman via blindlaw
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2015 7:44 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Charles Krugman <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?

This is not a new issue especially for those in government employment. When
I worked for the Social Security Administration as a Vocational expert in
Detroit in the early eighties it was a concern as there were several
incidents of disgruntled claimants that came to Social Security offices with
guns after they had claims denied. I also experienced situations when I
worked as a mental health clinician in various settings and this isn't
something to take likely and for reference purposes I came within about 15
feet of being struck by lightning when I was in high school. happy holidays.
Chuck

-----Original Message-----
From: Ronza Othman via blindlaw
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:17 PM
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List'
Cc: Ronza Othman
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?

My Agency seems to go on lockdown 3-4 times a year, and just a few weeks
back someone tried to get into the complex to shot some employees.  This
isn't as uncommon as you would imagine, particularly for lawyers and
government employees; even though we are in a helping profession, people
just don't like us much.

Also, the term "going postal" is a thing due to significant numbers of
workplace violence incidents afterall.



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly
via blindlaw
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:50 PM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Susan Kelly
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?

True enough - but before these trainings were the rage, we already had a
potential situation at our courthouse (juvenile), where a person who had
just assaulted a street vendor then escaped into our facility and was
actively evading security, suspected of being armed.  One of our
then-pregnant co-workers ended up locked in detention, missing lunch and
meds, for several hours due to the lockdown.  We don't handle emergencies
well as an organization, it seems.  Thus, trying to think ahead.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daniel
McBride via blindlaw
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 3:45 PM
To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Daniel McBride <dlmlaw at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?

Dear List:

I have been following this thread with some interest. I would like to point
out that your statistical odds of being struck by lightning are greater than
the odds that you will ever be confronted a so-called active shooter. And I
never spend one minute of my life with concerns of being struck by
lightning.

Daniel McBride
Fort Worth, Texas

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shelley
Richards via blindlaw
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:20 AM
To: Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Shelley Richards
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?

Hiding in the evidence cabinet, I like that idea.  I would definitely fit in
one.  I think the best advice is to figure out for yourself ahead of time
where the best hiding places are, and be sure you know how to get to those
places from anywhere in the building you might be.
Have someone help at first if needed until you are confident that you can
get several possible locations on your own from anywhere you might be.  I
have never been involved in an actual drill because my building has not done
them, but I have thought about it before and always figured I just need to
have good hiding places in mind which I know I can get to confidently.  Of
course I also think of places where my dog can hide with me as well.
I definitely would think this might be a more difficult situation for a
wheel chair user.  I would be interested in talking to some wheel chair
users to see what they might think is a good way to deal with this type of
situation.
I have to agree that relying on a sighted coworker is not necessarily a good
plan.  I personally would not feel confident relying on sighted assistance
from anybody in a situation which is almost definitely going to cause panic
and chaos.  It is also such an unpredictable situation, and nobody really
knows how they will handle it until it happens.  Definitely not the best
time to be counting on someone else who does not even know how they
themselves will handle a real life active shooter situation.

Shelley Palmadessa

On 12/10/15, Susan Kelly via blindlaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Thanks - that has always been my thought and plan.  Being small, I 
> figure that I can hide in an evidence cabinet in the courtroom if 
> nothing else exists.  Allegedly, there is a space for wheelchair bound 
> persons in the judicial chambers area at court, but...this is on the 
> second floor, and is in a mag-card protected restricted area.  It is 
> thus difficult to figure how that will work in such a situation, 
> particularly given that we have only two, very small elevators.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ronza 
> Othman via blindlaw
> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:10 PM
> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Ronza Othman <rothmanjd at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?
>
> My Agency has a function in the Security Office specifically geared 
> towards working with employees with disabilities.  So when we get the 
> Active Shooter Training, evacuation training, shelter in place 
> training, biohazard training, all of it, they do think about and talk 
> about how individuals with disabilities can respond.  For active 
> shooter, the rule is run, hide, fight.
> Their suggestions for run were to get out of there is quickly as 
> possible (wheelchair, scooter, whatever), if safe and if you aren't 
> going to be seen.
> They suggest we assess our flight capacity when deciding whether to 
> run or hide.  When hiding, they talk about how the goal is to find a 
> sturdy location with as much protection (3-4 walls - as possible.
> They suggest you scope this out ahead of time and find yourself a 
> couple of options for "safe rooms" like storage rooms.  They talk 
> about how bathrooms aren't always the best place to hide because the 
> doors don't lock.  They talk about how folks in wheelchairs, to the 
> extent possible, should either find places to hide where their chairs 
> are hidden too, or if they can, find ways to maneuver out of their 
> chairs to secure a smaller hiding place.  And with regard to fight, 
> they say to use whatever you have access to - hands, equipment, 
> whatever,
to fight.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri 
> via blindlaw
> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:38 PM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> Cc: Keri
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?
>
> That seems to be the most common.
>
> On 12/9/2015 1:46 PM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote:
>> So far, the only "adaptation" we have received is that a co-worker 
>> look
> out for us.  Not exactly an empowering solution.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Gerard Sadlier via blindlaw
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:06 AM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Gerard Sadlier <gerard.sadlier at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] active shooter trainings?
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is interesting if a little surprising - I'd be interested in 
>> reading
> re: adaptations etc. suggested.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Ger
>>
>> On 12/9/15, Keri via blindlaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> I think it is up to the trainers to do research and offer suggestions.
>>> At my university the campus police officer(who is a real policeman) 
>>> offered me personal suggestions on adapting, but I don't think there 
>>> is official methods. My school is willing to teach for different 
>>> situations however to students, staff, and faculty.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/9/2015 10:24 AM, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote:
>>>> Apologies in advance that this is only tangentially a legal 
>>>> question (being somewhat civil rights involved), but given that 
>>>> many of us are governmental employees, or at least in larger 
>>>> groups, I am hoping there is an answer among us.
>>>>
>>>> Our county has done active shooter trainings for the last couple of
> years.
>>>>   Unfortunately, they have absolutely zero training or suggestions 
>>>> for those of us who are blind or wheelchair-bound.  Has anyone 
>>>> participated in a training that accounts for these differences?
>>>> Does any such training even exist?
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> .com
>>> --
>>> Keri
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> 4
>>> 0gmail.com
>>>
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> --
> Keri
>
>
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--
Thank You
Shelley Palmadessa
shelleyrichards9 at gmail.com

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